Juan Benet Podcast

New episode with Dr. Adam Marblestone, CEO and co-founder of Convergent Research. Adam is an extraordinary catalyst and accelerant for science: he has influenced or routed billions in funding, he helped start significant companies and scientific subfields, and he is the world’s go-to person for neuroscience roadmapping. This year, the NSF launched a $1.5B X-Labs initiative inspired by the FRO model Adam pioneered. Though he started with neuroscience, today he helps organize scientific endeavors across many fields, including AI, math, biology, climate, astrophysics, and more.Adam proposes that fields like neurotech, whole-brain emulation, cryo, and nanotech are severely limited by capital and coordination — not ideas. Connectomics is a clear case. He argues that mapping the brain's full wiring diagram is the approach most poised-to-scale and still extremely neglected. Costs for a molecularly annotated mouse connectome have come down orders of magnitude, from an estimated $10B to $100M–200M, Adam suggests, with a human connectome perhaps costing around $1B–2B. The cost curve of connectomes is similar to transistors and gene sequencing: once it is low enough, we get extraordinary outcomes for humanity. Near-term applications could pay for it: new drug targets for brain disease, insights for AI development, emulations, and even “control knobs” for mood and focus we haven’t identified yet.In this episode, we go deep on many topics in neurotech and beyond: what the brain can do that computers still can't; what neuroscience could teach AI; how you'd actually map a whole mammal brain; how far today's fly-brain simulations really get toward an upload; what it would take to move mind uploading beyond the fringe or science; where brain-computer interfaces go next; nanotech, reversible cryonics, AI doing its own ML research, and even predictive, agent-based economics. I'm very excited to have Adam on the podcast. Hope you enjoy! Other links to this episode and references below.Sections00:00:00  Introduction00:01:40  What are the grand challenges of neurotech? 00:04:50  What the brain does that computers still can't (on a few bananas a day)00:14:43  The neuroscience overhang: why brains learn from so little data00:26:29  How to record and map the brain: DNA "ticker tape," ultrasound, and the unexplored map00:40:29  Why connectomics is the area most poised to scale00:47:54  How whole-brain connectomics works, end to end00:55:27  Simulating the fly brain: how far does it actually get us?00:57:51  What would it cost to map a mammal's brain?00:59:55  What will be connectomics' ChatGPT moment?01:04:35  What a connectome unlocks: disease, drug targets, and the brain's control knobs01:14:20  Scaling up to the human brain — a faster timeline than expected01:17:34  Mapping activity, and what the fly connectome has revealed01:27:55  What you could build with today's connectome01:35:29  Why uploading may be one of civilization's great cornerstones and transitions01:42:43  Optimistic visions of a future with uploading01:49:12  Beyond neurotech: virtual cells, nanotech, and AI-driven science02:15:29  BCIs today: semi-invasive devices, ultrasound, and what's on the horizon02:22:44  Why science is capital-and coordination-limited, not idea-limitedEpisode Links:YouTube: https://youtu.be/X0B_GWTuEFoSubstack: https://www.juanbenetpodcast.com/p/mapping-the-brain-simulating-it-uploadingLinks From the Podcast EpisodeGuest & OrganizationsAdam Marblestone: https://www.adammarblestone.org/Convergent Research: https://www.convergentresearch.org/Focused Research Organizations: https://www.convergentresearch.org/about-frosResearch Papers & Technical ReferencesPhysical principles for scalable neural recording, Marblestone et al. (2013): https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/computational-neuroscience/articles/10.3389/fncom.2013.00137/fullConneconomics: the economics of dense, large-scale, high-resolution neural connectomics, Marblestone et al. (2013): https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/001214v4Referenced External Papers & Projects:Neural dust: an ultrasonic, low power solution for chronic brain-machine interfaces, Seo et al. (2013): https://arxiv.org/abs/1307.2196A drosophila computational brain model reveals sensorimotor processing, Shiu et al. (2024): https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-024-07763-9ConnectomeBench: can LLMs proofread the connectome?, Brown et al. (2025): https://arxiv.org/abs/2511.05542E11 Bio — PRISM technology for self-correcting neuron tracing (2025): https://www.e11.bio/blog/prismZAPBench — Zebrafish activity prediction benchmark (Google Research): https://research.google/blog/improving-brain-models-with-zapbench/Connectome-seq: high-throughput mapping of neuronal connectivity at single-synapse resolution via barcode sequencing (2026): https://www.nature.com/articles/s41592-026-03026-9Wellcome: Scaling up connectomics: https://wellcome.org/insights/reports/scaling-connectomicsMICrONS Explorer: A virtual observatory of the cortex: https://www.microns-explorer.org/Decoupled Neural Interfaces using Synthetic Gradients, Jaderberg et al. (2016): https://arxiv.org/abs/1608.05343Neuronal wiring diagram of an adult brain, FlyWire (2024): https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-024-07558-yAtomically precise mechanosynthesis of carbon structures on hydrogenated Si(100) by inverted-mode STM, CBN Nano (2026)  https://arxiv.org/abs/2605.27250Ultrasound imaging of the brain, Aleph Neuro (2026): https://alephneuro.com/blog/ultrasound-brainOpenwater (Mary Lou Jepsen): https://www.openwater.health/Janelia Research Campus: https://www.hhmi.org/research/janeliaJanelia's Danionella bet (2026): https://www.science.org/content/article/how-ai-1-billion-and-transparent-fish-could-transform-neuroscienceNSF X-Labs: https://www.nsf.gov/funding/initiatives/nsf-x-labsEdison Scientific (FutureHouse spinout; "Kosmos"): https://edisonscientific.com/Isomorphic Labs (Max Jaderberg): https://www.isomorphiclabs.com/people/max-jaderberg-phdAI 2027 (Daniel Kokotajlo et al.): https://ai-2027.com/AI 2040: Plan A (Daniel Kokotajlo et al.): https://blog.aifutures.org/p/ai-2040-plan-aBooks & MediaA Brief History of Intelligence - Max Bennett: https://www.harpercollins.com/products/a-brief-history-of-intelligence-max-s-bennettThe Age of Em - Robin Hanson: https://ageofem.com/We Are Legion (We Are Bob) - Dennis E. Taylor: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/We-Are-Legion-(We-Are-Bob)/Dennis-E-Taylor/Bobiverse/9781668221570The City and the Stars - Arthur C. Clarke: https://www.abebooks.com/first-edition/CITY-STARS-Clarke-Arthur-C-Harcourt/31156927660/bdPermutation City - Greg Egan: https://www.gregegan.net/PERMUTATION/Permutation.htmlMaking Sense of Chaos - J. Doyne Farmer: https://yalebooks.yale.edu/book/9780300283327/making-sense-of-chaos/Pantheon (AMC): https://www.primevideo.com/detail/0JEZES1SSNVQCQHEYC282VFK2WJuan & Protocol LabsJuan Benet on X: https://x.com/juanbenetJuan Benet Podcast: https://juanbenetpodcast.comProtocol Labs: https://pl.xyzPL Neuro: https://plneuro.xyzDisclaimer⁠: https://bit.ly/PodcastDisclaimer

New episode with Allison Duettmann, the CEO of the Foresight Institute. Foresight has spent the past 40 years backing frontier science too early or too interdisciplinary for legacy institutions. Foresight has helped inspire and organize 10,000+ scientists, technologists, philanthropists, investors, students, thinkers, pioneers, and dreamers, including the early 2000s space community where Elon Musk and Steve Jurvetson discussed the importance of commercial space and reusable rockets. Foresight’s  Feynman Prize went to Fraser Stoddart and David Baker 9 and 20 years before each won a Nobel. Today, Foresight is one of the main communities where neurotech pioneers gather and explore the frontiers of BCI, connectomics, simulations, and uploading.Allison also founded the Existential Hope movement, rooted on the conviction that we must imagine flourishing futures — in the tradition of ambitious science & sci-fi — as a precondition for building them. She is one of the best people thinking deeply about the future, coordinating humanity to imagine and achieve good outcomes, and working to accelerate the technologies and adoption that will get us there. We go deep into all of that in this episode: how neurotech could let us connect far more directly than language allows; how BCIs are meaningfully improving people’s lives today; why connectomics and whole-brain emulation can keep humans compatible with Superintelligent AI; why uploading can give us a path to exploring ourselves and living vastly richer and more fulfilling lives than a single ~80 year narrative arc allows; the amazing possibility of living billions of years; and how nanotechnology could reshape the physical world, address our sustainability and energy challenges, and build the infrastructure to lift us off planet and explore the universe. This is a ton and goes to show how deeply and broadly Allison thinks. I’m very excited to have her on the podcast, as I think she explains things clearly and bridges huge divides with care, vision, and rigor. Hope you enjoy!Sections00:00:00 Introduction00:01:25 What is Existential Hope?00:04:06 Visions of the future: nanotech, longevity, neurotech, AI00:08:04 From existential risk to building better futures00:16:15 How far away is nanotechnology?00:24:26 Is a superintelligent AI a tool, or a new form of life?00:37:33 How neurotech could connect minds far beyond language00:41:56 Whole brain emulation: from C. elegans and FlyWire to the human “holy grail”00:45:16 The connectome problem: a complete wiring diagram isn't enough00:47:19 Why it's so hard to attract talent to emulation01:03:04 Longevity, cryonics, and the case for living billions of years01:22:24 How close are we to never having to die? 01:43:13 How Foresight operates to advance frontier science01:54:06 From philosophy to Foresight: how a three-month stay became 10 years in SF02:03:04 Allison’s vision for an optimistic future Episode Links:YouTube: https://youtu.be/knM7yHFH67oSubstack: https://www.juanbenetpodcast.com/p/we-dont-have-to-die-cryonics-reanimationLinks From the Podcast EpisodeGuest + OrganizationsAllison Duettmann: foresight.org/people/allison-duettmannForesight Institute: foresight.orgExistential Hope: www.existentialhope.comExistential Hope World Gallery: https://worlds.existentialhope.com/world-gallery/Foresight Fellowship / programs: foresight.org/engageFeynman Prize in Nanotechnology: foresight.org/prizesMythos Ventures: www.mythos.vcReferenced External Papers & Projects:Whole Brain Emulation: A Roadmap - Sandberg & Bostrom (2008): https://ora.ox.ac.uk/objects/uuid:a6880196-34c7-47a0-80f1-74d32ab98788/files/s5m60qt58tARIA Manufacturing Abundance: https://aria.org.uk/opportunity-spaces/manufacturing-abundanceLess Wrong: https://www.lesswrong.com/The Bitter Lesson - Richard Sutton (2019): www.incompleteideas.net/IncIdeas/BitterLesson.htmlCausal Learning: Psychology, Philosophy, and Computation - Gopnik & Schulz: academic.oup.com/book/36085FlyWire (fruit-fly connectome): flywire.aiOpenWorm / C. elegans connectome: openworm.orgWormatlas: https://www.wormatlas.org/Max Hodak: https://science.xyz/Until Labs: https://www.untillabs.com/Adam Marblestone & Convergent Research: https://www.convergentresearch.org/Videos & DemonstrationsFunding the Commons 2022: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RX7k8dahPZ0&list=PLhuBigpl7lqvngC9oNecjfWMqFucr5GvGWoman hearing for the first time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsOo3jzkhYADBS tremor surgery (spiral drawing): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsON79DZlW0Cystic fibrosis: Progress Through New Treatments Graph: https://www.continued.com/respiratory-therapy/articles/cystic-fibrosis-a-comprehensive-overview-112Books & Media:The Nexus Trilogy - Ramez Naam (2012-2015): https://angryrobotbooks.com/?s=nexusPermutation City - Greg Egan (1994): https://www.gregegan.net/PERMUTATION/Permutation.htmlThe Beginning of Infinity - David Deutsch (2011): https://www.thebeginningofinfinity.com/Gaming the Future - Allison Duettmann, Mark S. Miller, Christine Peterson (2022): https://foresight.org/gaming-the-future-the-book/Engines of Creation: The Coming Era of Nanotechnology - K. Eric Drexler (1986): https://web.mit.edu/cortiz/www/3.052/3.052CourseReader/3_EnginesofCreation.pdfAge of Em - Robin Hanson (2016): https://global.oup.com/academic/product/the-age-of-em-9780198754626The Edge of Sentience - Jonat...

New episode with Dr.  Konrad Kording, professor of bioengineering and neuroscience at the University of Pennsylvania and co-director of CIFAR's Learning in Machines & Brains program. Konrad works at the intersection of causality, machine learning, and neuroscience, building rigorous methods for causal reasoning when experiments aren't possible — and challenging how researchers interpret neural data and build AI.Konrad argues the most promising path to understanding how the brain works is to read the brain’s wiring directly, down to the molecular detail of each connection, and to build compilers and simulations to understand the brain’s computation directly.In this episode we go deep into how neurons work, how neurons wire together, and how organic and artificial neural networks differ. We discuss why organic neurons are doing much more; how a model of a single organic neuron can solve MNIST — computing more like a 3-layer artificial neural network; how the brain might learn by solving credit assignment with only local signals; how to approximate backprop without a global algorithm; why AI and humans are intelligent along different dimensions; why Konrad isn’t very worried about AI replacing us; economic models of intelligence and physical work; and much more. Konrad is a brilliant, contrarian thinker who explains complex concepts very intuitively. It is a solid computational neuroscience primer. I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did!Other links to this episode and references below.Topics covered:00:00:00 Introduction00:01:01 How organic neurons work00:24:13 How the brain learns: circuits and credit assignment00:45:29 Recording the brain 00:52:47 Why simulating brains is hard01:05:00 A new approach: connectomes and compilers01:21:00 Why simulate brains? 01:29:50 How AI and human intelligence differ01:41:04 Evolution, intelligence and AI risk01:52:42 Robotics, causality, and the roots of intelligence02:05:53 AI for science and scientific rigor02:13:05 The economics of intelligence 02:27:50 A hopeful futureLinks From the Podcast EpisodeGuest + OrganizationsKordingLab: kordinglab.comKordingLab on GitHub: https://github.com/KordingLabKordingLab on X: https://x.com/kordinglabPapers directly from Konrad Kording's lab:Can Single Neurons Solve MNIST? The Computational Power of Biological Dendritic Trees (2020) Comparing Dendritic Trees with Actual Trees (2023)(Artificial) Intelligence Saturation and the Future of Work (2025)Compiling Molecular Ultrastructure into Neural Dynamics (2026)Referenced external papers:Millisecond-timescale, genetically targeted optical control of neural activity (2005)Dopamine Reward Prediction Error Coding — Wolfram Schultz (2016) Single Cortical Neurons as Deep Artificial Neural Networks — Beniaguev, Idan Segev & London (2021) Neural Signal Propagation Atlas of C. elegans — Randi, Sharma, Dvali & Leifer (Andrew Leifer's lab) (2023)Books & Media:Causal Learning: Psychology, Philosophy, and Computation — Alison Gopnik & Laura SchulzJuan & Protocol LabsJuan Benet on XProtocol LabsPL NeuroDisclaimer⁠ 

New episode with Dr. Tom Oxley, co-founder and CEO of Synchron. Synchron has built a BCI called the Stentrode, which reaches the motor cortex via a blood vessel — leveraging the approach of cardiovascular stents, without having to open the skull at all! 15 million people live with motor impairment. The Stentrode lets people operate their phones and computers through thought, and could restore independence to people who've lost the ability to control their devices.  Tom sees BCIs as a major technological leap that will help human flourishing, by enabling better communication, decoding and conveying emotions, and enabling us to leverage the great capabilities of our computing infrastructure.This was a great, wide-ranging conversation. We discuss the origins of Synchron, the endovascular approach and its benefits, their next-gen system designed for high-channel-count recordings across distributed brain regions, the longer-term possibilities of helping people communicate better, how Tom developed as a founder and how he leads the company, how BCIs could unlock powerful mental states similar to psychedelics and meditation, how neurotech will transform humanity in the 2030s and 2040s, and why Tom thinks the US will lose the BCI race to China unless the US greatly accelerates. Hope you enjoy!Links to this episode and references below. Topics covered:00:00:00 Introduction00:03:18 Carl Jung, stroke surgery, and the road to BCI00:06:58 The endovascular approach: reaching the brain without surgery00:10:37 Getting Synchron off the ground00:17:23 Reading the brain: channels, signal, and noise00:36:41 The numbers: 15M patients, FDA, and Medicare00:43:17 Cognitive AI: foundation models, the data economy, and the 2040s00:52:55 Consciousness, psychedelics, and the extended self01:02:51 Agency, addiction, and geopolitics01:06:51 The optimistic vision: unlocking the subconscious01:10:49 Building a company: 696 no's01:21:30 Losing the BCI lead to ChinaLinks From the Podcast EpisodeGuest + OrganizationsTom OxleySynchronTom Oxley on XSynchron on XResearch Papers + Technical References"Neuronal ensemble control of prosthetic devices by a human with tetraplegia" (2006)"Minimally invasive endovascular stent-electrode array for high-fidelity, chronic recordings of cortical neural activity" (2016)DARPA Revolutionizing Prosthetics program (2004–2008)Meta open-sourced sEMG (neural wristband) datasets at NeurIPS 2024References Mentioned in ConversationNeurIPS conference Woman with cochlear implant hearing for the first timeBooks + MediaThe Battle for Your Brain: Defending the Right to Think Freely in the Age of Neurotechnology by Nita FarahanyNexus by Ramez Naam — BCI sci-fi referenced by Juan for its depiction of shared emotional states between humansDo Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?Juan & Protocol LabsProtocol LabsPL NeuroJuan Benet Podcast on YouTubeJuan Benet Podcast on SpotifyJuan Benet Podcast on AppleDisclaimer⁠ 

Episode 3 of my new podcast features Dr. Jacques Carolan, a founding Program Director at ARIA, the UK’s Advanced Research and Invention Agency. He directs two neurotech programs aimed at one of the most important opportunity spaces: developing tools and systems to interface, at scale, with the human brain. One program is built on the idea that brain disorders are circuit problems, and funds tools to target those circuits with molecular precision across the whole brain. The other aims to deliver high-performance neurotech to the brain non-invasively or at most in a 30-minute outpatient procedure.We dig into the engineering and biology behind both programs, potential scaling unlocks for the field, how ARIA programs drive breakthroughs, Jacques background, the role of media in shaping the future, and much more. I hope you enjoy the conversation!Other links to this episode and references below.Sections00:00:00 Introduction 00:01:22 Why 20 years of neurotech breakthroughs haven't reached patients 00:04:08 The two variables that determine whether any medical technology gets adopted 00:09:17 Brain disorders cost the UK £100B/year and we're barely treating them 00:16:15 Using stem cells and gene therapy to build better brain interfaces  00:21:40 Self-regulating gene therapy that helps the brain quiet its own seizures 00:24:03 The non-technical reasons transformative neurotech fail to reach patients 00:31:34 Watching a 30-second brain ablation stop severe tremors00:38:11 The case for delivering brain implants and therapies without opening the skull00:50:56 Why high technical uncertainty makes distributed teams better than vertical integration 01:02:55 Why the UK keeps producing world-class neuroscience but not world-class neurotech companies 01:11:04 What AI-driven hypothesis generation means for breakthroughs per pound 01:20:40 From quantum computing to improv comedy to running £119M government brain programsLinks from the PodcastJacques CarolanWebsite: https://jacquescarolan.github.io/On X: https://x.com/jacquescarolanJacques’ Programs at ARIAARIA UKOpportunity Space Program 1: Precision NeurotechnologiesProgram 2: Massively Scalable NeurotechnologiesResearch Papers + Technical ReferencesPhysical principles for scalable neural recording (2013)How advances in neural recording affect data analysis (2011)Personalized brain circuit scores identify clinically distinct biotypes in depression and anxiety (2024)Predictive validity in drug discovery (2022)The “Sewing Machine” for minimally invasive neural recording (2019)Professor Gabriele Lignani on closed-loop gene therapy for epilepsyVideos + DemonstrationsDBS Tremor Surgery DemonstrationJohn Nelson on DBS for Depression at ARIA SummitReferences Mentioned in ConversationHarvard Designated Driver Campaign partnered with more than 160 TV shows, including Cheers and Dallas, helping popularize designated driving before Friends premiered in 1994 Mahnaz Avarneh — Neurotechnology Is InequityBooks + MediaThe Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy — Douglas AdamsThe Expanse — James S.A. CoreyThe Idea Factory — Jon GertnerImagined Worlds — Freeman DysonWe Are Legion (We Are Bob) — Dennis E. TaylorPantheonNeu World — Ryota Kanai / ArayaAnalogue Quantum Simulation (Jacques’ book)LinksProtocol Labs PL Neuro Juan Benet Podcast on YouTube Juan Benet Podcast on Substack Disclaimer⁠: https://bit.ly/PodcastDisclaimer

Ben is co-founder and CSO of Precision Neuroscience, Assistant Professor of Neurosurgery at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai, and Scientific Director at Mount Sinai. Previously, he co-founded Neuralink and Simbionics (acquired by Apple).Precision is building a minimally invasive brain-computer interface (BCI) that reads from thousands of points on the cortex without penetrating it. The Layer 7 device is implanted through a one-millimeter slit in the skull rather than the larger borehole other approaches require. It is also fully removable.Precision seeks to help the 5 million people living with severe paralysis in the US (including 800,000 new stroke cases per year). In March 2025, Precision received FDA clearance for a temporary wired version of the system. Over 85 patients have been implanted with and used the device in clinical studies. Wireless implants are planned for 2027.We go deep on the history of Neurotech from the 1980s to the ML inflection points that triggered Neuralink's founding, why surface ECoG was a contrarian bet that's now paying off, the path to treating paralysis and stroke at scale, and why Ben believes neural data is at the same inflection point genomic data was in 2000 — a whole class of biological problems about to become tractable as computer science problems.Sections00:00:00 Introduction 00:04:39 Paralysis as a lens to understand the brain00:05:36 The 1980s breakthrough: population encoding and the birth of BCI00:14:36 Google Translate, ML, and the founding of Neuralink00:23:08 What is the long-term vision of Precision Neuroscience00:31:56 Layer 7 and why transformative technology always looks impossible at first00:50:21 The surgery: a slit in the skull, not a borehole00:55:19 The clinical program: who are the patients01:04:16 FDA clearance and the path to wireless implants in 202701:08:32 The patient population: paralysis and stroke at scale01:16:26 Neural data as the new genomics01:30:06 BCIs, AI, and the future of the human-machine interface01:31:22 From medical necessity to lifestyle technology01:40:36 Precision as a platform — and an optimistic visionLinks from the PodcastPrecision NeuroscienceLayer 7 BCIIcahn School of Medicine at Mount SinaiLinksJuan Benet on XJuan Benet PodcastProtocol LabsPL NeuroDisclaimer⁠

Max Hodak is the founder and CEO of Science Corp (previously co-founded Neuralink and Transcriptic). Science is building PRIMA, a retinal prosthetic that’s restoring meaningful vision for patients with blindness caused by age-related macular degeneration. The team is also developing a biohybrid brain implant that grows living neurons directly onto a silicon chip, then interfaces that system with the cortex.In this conversation, we go deep on how both technologies work, how PRIMA restores vision, how the biohybrid BCI connects to the brain, what the next milestones are for neural interfaces, and what it would imply to add a new functional brain area to a human.We also dig deep into how Max built and leads Science: his founder story, how the team drives Fast R&D, and how the team is able to speed through high-uncertainty, high-impact projects.Hope you enjoy!Timestamps00:00 Introduction00:52 What counts as neurotech?01:45 History of brain-computer interfaces and the iPhone dividend07:25 PRIMA - How Science is restoring vision in blind patients10:10 Why stimulating bipolar cells works when the optic nerve doesn't30:30 Are we bottlenecked by biology or engineering?32:40 Expanding the brain's bandwidth beyond 10 bits per second37:00 Can we add new areas to the brain?37:46 Biohybrid BCIs: neurons growing on a chip39:20 What could neural augmentation look like?01:13:20 How Science drives Fast R&D01:44:00 How founders learn and level upLinksWoman hearing for the first timePRIMA Visual ProsthesisPRIMA patient filling out crossword puzzle PRIMA a global mission to restore visionBiohybrid BCIPatrick Collison FAST postiPhone launch keynote in 2007Pantheon on NetflixLinksJuan Benet on XPL NeuroProtocol LabsDisclaimer