Lunch on The Way

In this conversation, Joey Millington and Jon Hoskin sit down with Sam Burrows to discuss what knowledge is and how teachers should approach knowledge within a Christian sacramentality of the world.00:00 Introduction01:32 A theological account of reality5:52 Christian education needs to start with theological reality10:47 T. F. Torrence and theological reality20:50 Knowledge is a relationship30:22 Knowledge is embodied36:17 Is Distance Learning Problematic50:00 Sam's Favourite "Makerspace" guests52:25 Sam's 3 Proposals for teachers1:00:15 Where do we learn this new way?Check out Sam's podcast with CEN, "Makerspace," where he interviews world-leading Christian thinkers to help teachers/educator in Australia. https://open.spotify.com/show/1DklD6kT4wEWUaF64y8pRh Lunch on The Way is a podcast that deeply discusses Christianity, Church, Culture, and Jesus.Available on ALL podcast platforms https://lunchontheway.buzzsprout.com/sharePodcast hosts are Greame Flett, Jonathan Hoskin, and Joey Millington.The opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals expressing and do not reflect the opinions and beliefs of any affiliated organisations or ministries.

In this conversation, Joey and Graeme discuss how metaphors help us encounter a sacramental world. All of language is metaphorical, and it is the epicentre of meaning.Podcast hosts are Greame Flett, Jonathan Hoskin, and Joey Millington.The opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals expressing and do not reflect the opinions and beliefs of any affiliated organisations or ministries.

In this conversation, Graeme and Joey speak with Lindy from the Olive Leaf Network about the rise of Shincheonji and World Mission Society Church of God in New Zealand. 00:00 Introduction02:44 Shincheonji cult targets churches05:09 Lindy's Story of Leaving PBCC14:32 Defining "cult" and "high demand religious group"26:49 Shincheonji's deceitful recruitment strategy41:44 What motivates Shincheonji members to deceive?44:04 Joey's encounter with WMSCG member48:32 WMSCG have been growing60:00 More about Olive Leaf NetworkPodcast hosts are Greame Flett, Jonathan Hoskin, and Joey Millington.The opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals expressing and do not reflect the opinions and beliefs of any affiliated organisations or ministries.

In this conversation, Joey sat down with Fiona Rush of C3 Church Auckland to talk about discipleship—how to make better disciples and the need for more difficulty, suffering, and risk for formation to happen.00:00 Introduction02:20 Fiona Rush's Story and Calling13:50 Bryce Crawford reaches young people17:00 Discipleship and Education Principles32:45 Discipleship though sufferingPodcast hosts are Greame Flett, Jonathan Hoskin, and Joey Millington.The opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals expressing and do not reflect the opinions and beliefs of any affiliated organisations or ministries.

In this conversation, Graeme and Joey interview Dr. Malcolm Falloon as they discuss secular societies' misunderstanding of The Treaty of Waitangi and its Christian influence. Malcolm also helps Christians navigate the contentious Treaty space with practical and wise advice.Podcast hosts are Greame Flett, Jonathan Hoskin, and Joey Millington.The opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals expressing and do not reflect the opinions and beliefs of any affiliated organisations or ministries.

In this conversation, Graeme Flett and Joey Millington discuss the importance of Marshall McLuhan's statement, "the medium is the message," for churches and preaching the gospel. 00:00 Intro02:22 Marshall McLuhan's scholarly influences and critics12:54 Defining the "figure" and "ground"18:19 Oral-Writing-Print24:54 New tech amplifies and diminishes26:49 Electricity to digital29:41 How the gospel message changes through the medium38:39 Critiquing digital church48:39 Churches are in competition with the groundLunch on The Way is a podcast that deeply discusses Christianity, Church, Culture, and Jesus.Available on ALL podcast platforms https://lunchontheway.buzzsprout.com/sharePodcast hosts are Greame Flett, Jonathan Hoskin, and Joey Millington.The opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals expressing and do not reflect the opinions and beliefs of any affiliated organisations or ministries.

In this conversation, "For the Life of the World," by Easter Orthodox Priest, Alexander Schmemann, is examined for how secularism is a myth and the sacramentality of the world is a Christian truth and counter to secularism. This is likely the best conversation Graeme, Joey, and Jonathan ever had, and it might be their last.00:00 Introduction01:58 Who is Alexander Schmemann?09:58 Liturgy shows us how to live in the world18:05 How the symbolic world is real24:53 how to participate rightly in the world31:13 The redemption of time39:03 How to live THIS out47:00 Divine purpose, not human progress50:48 Engage the whole person in the world56:38 Joey's PhD exert: Sacramental Metaphors59:33 Why Mary is venerated1:03:53 Goodbye Jonathan and GraemePodcast hosts are Greame Flett, Jonathan Hoskin, and Joey Millington.The opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals expressing and do not reflect the opinions and beliefs of any affiliated organisations or ministries.

In this conversation, Graeme and Joey sit down with Dr Sam Bloore who has completed considerable research in emerging adulthood. He has spoken widely on the topic to help churches disciple this group better.After graduating from medicine and bioethics at Otago University, Sam Bloore worked as a doctor for five years before a gradual career change saw him join the staff of his church and complete a Master of Arts in Pastoral Theology. Sam is passionate about the intersection of faith and culture, in particular how individuals establish and enhance a personal spirituality that is stable and sustainable. He recently completed a Doctorate of Ministry through Fuller Theological Seminary—including papers that explore Sexuality and Ethics, Technology, the Visual Arts, and the discipling of Emerging Adults. He is a teaching pastor at St. Paul’s Symonds Street and has joined the board of the Parenting Place.Book Recommendations"Growing With: Every Parent's Guide to Helping Teenagers and Young Adults Thrive in Their Faith, Family, and Future" by Kara Powell and Steven Argue"Emerging Adulthood The Winding Road from the Late Teens Through the Twenties" by Jeffry Arnett"Spiritual Formation in Emerging Adulthood: A Practical Theology For College And Young Adult Ministry" by Chris A. Setran00:00 Intro01:45 Emerging adulthood is the new young adult09:00 Identity Exploration15:11 Sam's story as a doctor23:05 Instability in life24:03 Self-focus and time rich30:11 Feeling in-between37:27 Possibilities and optimism43:25 Lamenting your dreams46:31 4 THINGS: Discipleship for emerging adults57:58 How can pastors lead the way?Podcast hosts are Greame Flett, Jonathan Hoskin, and Joey Millington.The opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals expressing and do not reflect the opinions and beliefs of any affiliated organisations or ministries.

This is the last episode of 2025, taking a look back at why the podcast looked so different from the previous 2 years. I also venture into why Jonathan only appeared in 3 episodes and what 2026 might look like.Podcast hosts are Greame Flett, Jonathan Hoskin, and Joey Millington.The opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals expressing and do not reflect the opinions and beliefs of any affiliated organisations or ministries.

In this conversation, Graeme and Joey sit down with Dr Greg Liston to discuss Lesslie Newbigin's 5 big ways churches should approach cultural and be distinct through creating plausibility structures.Dr. Greg Liston is a Senior Lecturer at Laidlaw College specialising in ecclesiology and systematic theology. He was the Lead Pastor of Mt Albert Baptist Church in Auckland, New Zealand. He also holds two PhDs: one in theology and the other in physics.00:00 Intro01:56 Lesslie Newbigin vs relevance missiology07:52 Newbigin's PT 109:42 Newbigin's PT 216:14 Newbigin's PT 323:54 Newbigin's PT 429:34 Newbigin's PT 531:53 Is Eastern Orthodoxy the Best Plausibility Structure?39:34 Living in the Tension of Two Worlds44:04 Deconstructing Secularism and Technique49:04 Church is About "Being" Before "Doing"59:09 The HOPE ConferencePodcast hosts are Greame Flett, Jonathan Hoskin, and Joey Millington.The opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals expressing and do not reflect the opinions and beliefs of any affiliated organisations or ministries.

On this episode, Jonathan, Graeme, and Joey discuss what biblical wisdom is and how "the fear of the Lord" might not mean what we think. We disagree, agree, argue, meet in the middle, and much more.00:00 Introduction02:01 Answering listener's questions10:07 Why "the fear of the Lord" and wisdom?16:26 The OT and wisdom26:31 How wisdom became incarnational32:31 From fear to love in Christ36:11 The tension of Holy-Love40:11 A definition of wisdom50:06 You can't live solely by principlesPodcast hosts are Greame Flett, Jonathan Hoskin, and Joey Millington.The opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals expressing and do not reflect the opinions and beliefs of any affiliated organisations or ministries.

In this episode, Jonathan Hoskin rejoins Graeme and Joey as they look at the physical world and rediscover a re-enchantment or sacramental nature to the world through visiting Iain McGilChrist's, "The Matter With Things" (2021). They explore how the Western world became flat and secular, who Iain McGilchrist is and what he gets right and wrong about the world and God, how the world is deeply sacramental and what that means, and much more.00:00 Introduction02:15 Jonathan is BACK!06:10 The world is a window, not a wall10:40 How we became secular people23:45 how secularism has impacted Christians33:55 Iain McGilchrist "The Matter With Things"39:15 Mistaking the map for the terrain (important)42:30 McGilchrist re-enchants a scientific world50:55 Jesus confirms a sacramental world54:35 How we can change from a flat, mechanistic worldview01:00:45 Theologians pray ... [insert literally anything] prayPodcast hosts are Greame Flett, Jonathan Hoskin, and Joey Millington.The opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals expressing and do not reflect the opinions and beliefs of any affiliated organisations or ministries.

In this conversation, Graeme and Joey sit down with Rev. Louise Wernich to talk about business strategy and leadership helping churches. Pastors have become increasingly suspicious of business practices distorting the purpose of the church, but Louise addresses how we can go too far in the other direction.Rev. Louise Wernich is an ordained minister in the Methodist Church of South Africa and has recently completed in MBA in New Zealand. She works at Laidlaw College within the post-graduate theology programmes. She has considerable experience leading churches of all size, and she has recently come to appreciate the importance of business leadership for the church.00:00 teaser / intro02:12 the tension between church / business leadership10:39 who is your church competing with?19:47 PESTEL and SWOT strategic framworks27:20 what to do when a ministry is dying31:27 the purpose of the church37:20 migrant churches navigating NZ culture48:12 migrant churches should do this ...56:12 why church strategy matters58:52 AI us causing pause / disruption within people01:01:02 Church staff aren't familyPodcast hosts are Greame Flett, Jonathan Hoskin, and Joey Millington.The opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals expressing and do not reflect the opinions and beliefs of any affiliated organisations or ministries.

In this conversation, Joey sits down with Treaty of Waitangi expert and scholar, Dr. Sam Carpenter. They talk about the Treaty of Waitangi history and how early missionaries were pivotal in its construction, translation, and acceptance. They also discuss how the current discourse around the Treaty needs a biblical worldview to be interpreted correctly.Sam teaches into Laidlaw’s Church History courses with a specialist focus on New Zealand religious and political history. He leads Te Rongopai ki Aotearoa Project at Laidlaw that is exploring the multidimensional relationships of Christianity and Māori society. Sam’s research focusses on the intersections of Christianity and Māori society, and on New Zealand political and religious history more generally.CHECK OUT Sam's personal website for current scholarly-informed opinions on the Treaty of Waitangi and more https://nzhistorian.com/00:00 Intro01:38 Sam' work with the Waitangi Tribunal06:43 What was the Maori spiritual landscape like before Christianity?12:13 How did Christianity arrive in Aotearoa (New Zealand)?16:32 How did Christianity grow in Aotearoa (New Zealand)?19:18 Why did Maori overwhelmingly accept Christianity?26:33 Maori became early evangelists and missionaries to other Maori30:23 Why was the Treaty of Waitangi was written?36:21 How was the Treaty of Waitangi written and translated?39:43 What the Treaty actually says43:08 Why did every chief sign the Treaty?48:13 Why did Maori eventually reject Christianity?54:58 Bible in one hand Treaty in the other1:03:06 1934 Declaration of New Zealand Independence1:07:33 Is the Treaty misinterpreted in 2025?Podcast hosts are Greame Flett, Jonathan Hoskin, and Joey Millington.The opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals expressing and do not reflect the opinions and beliefs of any affiliated organisations or ministries.

In this episode, Graeme and Joey interview Dr. Maja Whitaker about Pentecostalism—the good, great, and not so great. We look at what make Pentecostal churches tick, like their unique take on mission, their need to be culturally relevant, and their obsession with pragmatism and why they have a PR problem.Dr. Maja Whitaker is the Academic Dean at Laidlaw College; she oversees all programme development and delivery and contributes to the development and outworking of College strategy, with a focus on integrated programmes and a strong partner ecosystem. Maja is a lecturer in the School of Theology, and has served as Practical Theology Lead and with the School of Theology Leadership team. She teaches into courses on spiritual formation, reflective practice, leadership, and pastoral ministry.00:00 Intro01:28 What is Pentecostalism/Charismatic?08:40 Experiencing God11:50 Always looking to where the Spirit's at work — sacramentalism16:07 Why does Pentecostalism have a PR problem?21:38 How Maja dealt with the tension moments26:00 Pentecostal churches in NZ are different32:33 Maja's shifting relationship with God36:20 Maja's ideal Sunday morning41:55 What Graeme would add to church45:25 Why Pentecostal churches are growing47:40 Joey's theory about the Pentecostal movement51:38 Maja's no longer PentecostalThe music is by Josiah David Swim. You can find him on Spotify.Lunch on The Way is a podcast that deeply discusses Christianity, Church, Culture, and Jesus.Available on ALL podcast platforms https://lunchontheway.buzzsprout.com/sharePodcast hosts are Greame Flett, Jonathan Hoskin, and Joey Millington.The opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals expressing and do not reflect the opinions and beliefs of any affiliated organisations or ministries.

In this episode, Graeme and Joey sit down with Rev. Dr. Sarah Penwarden to discuss why our experience matters for theology and understanding God, why emotions matters, how to integrate experience and faith, how stories help us creating meaning, and why people receive counselling.Sarah Penwarden (Pākehā) has a doctorate in counselling, is a practicing counsellor, supervisor, and an Anglican priest. She teaches in the School of Theology (Laidlaw College) on a part-time basis. Her academic interests connect to practical theology and counselling, and how the realities of ordinary life can be held in tandem with the hope of the Gospel. She teaches papers about research methods and mental health.Podcast hosts are Greame Flett, Jonathan Hoskin, and Joey Millington.The opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals expressing and do not reflect the opinions and beliefs of any affiliated organisations or ministries.

On this conversation, Graeme and Joey discuss 4 ways AI will change churches, Christians, and society. They don't predict the future as much as explain how the future might play out as AI in adopted by society and churches and people grapple with what it means to be human.Podcast hosts are Greame Flett, Jonathan Hoskin, and Joey Millington.The opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals expressing and do not reflect the opinions and beliefs of any affiliated organisations or ministries.

This is a rebroadcasted episode because it's worth posting again. This conversation with Dr. Karen Kemp about pastoral leadership, trends, and identity is still relevant, even though it was originally published 2 years ago! It's worth a full listen.Podcast hosts are Greame Flett, Jonathan Hoskin, and Joey Millington.The opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals expressing and do not reflect the opinions and beliefs of any affiliated organisations or ministries.

This is a bonus episode that was original recorded in July of 2024 as Jonathan, Graeme, and Joey prepared to lead a discussion in Tauranga on what it means to be fully human and how churches/pastor can help with that.00:00 Teaser02:12 Explaining on trip to Tauranga04:55 Efficient causality vs being human07:35 Schedule of event and questions to consider09:30 Why collective wisdom matters10:45 Importance of group dynamics12:45 Why theological-provocation matters16:40 Stories make us human21:10 4 essential elements of humanity (core touch points)25:35 Grounding the 4 essential elements31:00 Framing our conversation32:40 Phenomena as the starting point (lived experience)36:00 How systematic theology is helpful38:50 Creating an impersonal god41:35 Participation in the WordLunch on The Way is a podcast that deeply discusses Christianity, Church, Culture, and Jesus.Available on ALL podcast platforms https://lunchontheway.buzzsprout.com/sharePodcast hosts are Greame Flett, Jonathan Hoskin, and Joey Millington.The opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals expressing and do not reflect the opinions and beliefs of any affiliated organisations or ministries.

In this conversation, Graeme and Joey sit down with Ps. Dan Sheed of Central Vineyard Church, Auckland. They discuss prayer as posture and invitation, Dan's book "Drift No More," and Dan's story of entering ministry and planting Central Vineyard.Dan Sheed is the founding co-leader of Central Vineyard Church in Tāmaki Makaurau, Auckland. The son of pastors, he was raised in the Vineyard Church movement, and has been on the journey with Christ as a pastor himself for many years. He planted Central Vineyard Church in 2015. He is married to Gabrielle, and has two wonderful tamariki: Jimmy and Florence. Dan is the author of the beautiful, challenging book Drift No More: An Exploration of Tethered Faith (2024).Podcast hosts are Greame Flett, Jonathan Hoskin, and Joey Millington.The opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals expressing and do not reflect the opinions and beliefs of any affiliated organisations or ministries.

In this episode, Graeme and Joey have a conversation with Sam Burrows about how meaning is back in the West, how the cultural left helped Christianity, the growing influence of the right in politics, what biblical critical theory is, and much more!Makerspace Podcast https://open.spotify.com/show/1DklD6kT4wEWUaF64y8pRhPodcast hosts are Greame Flett, Jonathan Hoskin, and Joey Millington.The opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals expressing and do not reflect the opinions and beliefs of any affiliated organisations or ministries.

In this conversation, Graeme and Joey discuss how there are many things we cannot quantifiably measure in the church and that we need to use judgement when consulting numbers. Much of their think is derived from "The Tyranny of Metrics" by Jerry Muller.00:00 Teaser02:20 Introduction4:00 Gen Z Christians are Growing | Bible Society UK18:10 Political Will is Gone20:00 The Tyranny of Metrics24:50 Growth through Proximity to Christ28:00 Tell Stories not Measure Stories30:00 What we easily measure is what we focus on33:10 Economic metaphors are dominate in our culture35:35 An Atheist believes churches should have more government support38:50 We are in control? NOPE!40:35 The right place for metrics45:08 We can fudge the numbers49:15 Always be engaged with the margins53:00 Death of an institution is not failure in a Christian paradigm Podcast hosts are Greame Flett, Jonathan Hoskin, and Joey Millington.The opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals expressing and do not reflect the opinions and beliefs of any affiliated organisations or ministries.

In this conversation, Graeme and Joey clarify and elaborate on their conversation with Andrew Root. The conversation delves into the role of Christians in society, emphasizing the importance of identifying oneself as a Christian in various settings. Joey and Graeme discuss the concept of being a "royal priesthood," traversing two worlds, and the need for Christians to be visible and present in their communities. They explore the idea of evangelism as consolation, particularly in moments of despair, and the relational ministry philosophy of Andrew Root. The discussion also touches on the stabilizing factors in faith communities, suggesting that faithfulness and presence in the now are more important than growth.00:00 Teaser01:21 Introduction4:13 Surprised by despair - hopeful evangelism11:52 We're all priests17:17 What to offer a dying man?22:12 Stop functionalising people27:07 Most alive in relational ministry35:15 I invited people to Alpha38:15 People need to know you're a Christian42:27 More on issues with growth as stabiliser48:02 In Christ as stabiliserLunch on The Way is a podcast that deeply discusses Christianity, Church, Culture, and Jesus.Available on ALL podcast platforms https://lunchontheway.buzzsprout.com/sharePodcast hosts are Greame Flett, Jonathan Hoskin, and Joey Millington.The opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals expressing and do not reflect the opinions and beliefs of any affiliated organisations or ministries.

In this episode, Graeme and Joey have a brilliant conversation with Dr Andrew Root as they discuss a humanising approach to evangelism, the digital space and discipleship, what the key competency of a pastor should be, growth as modernity's stabiliser, and much more!Andrew Root, PhD (Princeton Theological Seminary) is the Carrie Olson Baalson Professor of Youth and Family Ministry at Luther Seminary. He is most recently the author of Evangelism in an Age of Despair and the six volume Ministry in a Secular Age series (including Churches and the Crisis of Decline, The Congregation in a Secular Age, The Pastor in a Secular Age, The Church After Innovation, The Church in a Age of Secular Mysticism and Faith Formation in a Secular Age). He is also the author of The End of Youth Ministry? and more than dozen other books. Andy also serves as theologian in residence at Youthfront. He has worked in congregations, parachurch ministries, and social service programs. He lives in St. Paul with his wife Kara, two children, Owen and Maisy, and their dog. When not reading, writing, or teaching, Andy spends far too much time watching TV and movies.PODCAST ..."When Church Stops Workings Featuring Andrew Root" https://www.andrewroot.org/podcast/PUBLICATIONS ... https://www.andrewroot.org/books/"Evangelism is an Age of Despair""The Church in an Age of Secular Mysticism""When the Church Stops Working""The Church After Innovation""Churches and the Crisis of Decline""The Congregation in a Secular Age"AND MANY MORE ... https://www.andrewroot.org/books/Podcast hosts are Greame Flett, Jonathan Hoskin, and Joey Millington.The opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals expressing and do not reflect the opinions and beliefs of any affiliated organisations or ministries.

In this episode of Lunch on The Way, Rev. Frank Ritchie discusses how places and spaces of worship hold our spirituality when we can't muster it up, his various experiences with different religions and expressions of the Christian faith, how and why Holy Communion is so important for the church, why wearing a clerical collar matters for pastors, how the media are open to Christianity, and why irrelevant churches are paradoxically relevant.Frank is an ordained minister in the Wesleyan Methodist Church of Aoteroa-New Zealand, a media chaplain, and national Christian voice in New Zealand.00:00 Teaser01:28 Introduction06:37 Cathedrals hold our faith13:00 Frank's journey with faith over the decades20:00 Holy Communion holds our spirituality26:32 Why wear a clerical collar?40:01 The Media are not anti-Christian50:32 Challenges in the Media Industry54:20 Irrelevant Churches are attractiveCheck out Frank's Substack for theological, cultural, and formational reflections and insights https://frankritchie.substack.com/Podcast hosts are Greame Flett, Jonathan Hoskin, and Joey Millington.The opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals expressing and do not reflect the opinions and beliefs of any affiliated organisations or ministries.

Graeme and Joey welcome Louise to the podcast and discuss Louise's journey into ministry and her families immigration to New Zealand from South Africa, the impact of COVID on the South African church and her family, how a call to ministry can't be ignored, Graeme's call into ministry, reflections on pastoring more than 20 decades, how business-church forgets about the people (ironically), and much more.00:00 Teaser1:00 Introduction03:39 Louise's Journey into Ministry, and Family17:33 COVID in South Africa and the church23:13 Louise moving to New Zealand26:58 Ministry is a calling that can't be ignored30:00 Graeme's call into ministry34:40 Louise's reflections on pastoring36:55 The most important part of church is people41:35 Undoing Business-church46:10 What an MBA has can teach pastors55:49 NZ & South African Cultural Observations1:02:40 Adjusting after ImmigrationLunch on The Way is a podcast that deeply discusses Christianity, Church, Culture, and Jesus.Available on ALL podcast platforms https://lunchontheway.buzzsprout.com/sharePodcast hosts are Greame Flett, Jonathan Hoskin, and Joey Millington.The opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals expressing and do not reflect the opinions and beliefs of any affiliated organisations or ministries.

In this conversation, Graeme and Joey discuss Joey's experience at Auckland's new Mormon Temple, how architecture reveals a church's/religion's theology, the craziness of the world, how Canada and US relations is a microcosm of the disruption the world will feel, and much more.Podcast hosts are Greame Flett, Jonathan Hoskin, and Joey Millington.The opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals expressing and do not reflect the opinions and beliefs of any affiliated organisations or ministries.

In this conversation, Graeme and Joey sit down with Mark Sayers and discuss what Mark learned about ministry during the Melbourne lockdowns, why embodied ministry matters so much, how proceduralism has blunted the church's mission, how the church needs to be a pillar rather than a platform in the world, how everything is politically changing in the world, transcendence and immanence, what is means to be human, and how the Trump foreign policy will change Australia and New Zealand.Mark Sayers is the Lead Pastor of Red Church in Melbourne, Australia and contributor to the Rebuilders podcast with Daniel and Liddy. He is an international church thought leader helping ministry leaders navigate through a complex world.Podcast hosts are Greame Flett, Jonathan Hoskin, and Joey Millington.The opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals expressing and do not reflect the opinions and beliefs of any affiliated organisations or ministries.

In this episode, Joey and Graeme interview AJ Thomas, who is one of the teaching and preaching pastors at Kings Church in New Brunswick, Canada. He also leads the Atlantic Kingdom Alliance which aims to bring together pastors and ministry leader from diverse theological and denominational background for the advancement of the gospel. They discussed his journey from youth ministry to church planting and his current role at King's Church, the importance of preaching as a sacramental act (distinguishing it from teaching), his theological evolution (particularly his engagement with Catholicism and its influence on his understanding of the Eucharist), the significance of communion in his previous church (Deep Water), and his approach to preaching as a craft rather than an art. AJ also mentioned his new role in the Atlantic Kingdom Alliance, focusing on interdenominational cooperation. The conversation touched on theological nuances, the impact of the pandemic on preaching, and AJ's writing of his new preaching book, "Preaching Craft," which can be found anywhere on Amazon.comLearn more about AJ at https://www.ajthomas.ca/Podcast hosts are Greame Flett, Jonathan Hoskin, and Joey Millington.The opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals expressing and do not reflect the opinions and beliefs of any affiliated organisations or ministries.

In this conversation the guys explores the concept of faith deconstruction and truth, emphasizing the importance of a holistic view of life. Many people deconstruct not Christianity but specific expressions or packaged forms of it, often driven by personal experiences and dissatisfaction with rigid, mechanistic approaches. They highlight the need for a synthesized understanding of truth that includes emotions and relationships, advocating for a more humble and open approach to truth that trusts the 'gut.' The discussion also touches on the role of the right hemisphere in processing gut feelings and the importance of listening and discernment deconstructing.00:00 Teaser01:41 Into - Looking Forward to 202505:07 - Deconstructing Christianity06:43 - Deconstructing a form/model of Christianity09:48 - The origins of deconstruction - postmodernism12:16 - Our experiences with deconstruction14:08 - The "holding space" during deconstruction16:42 - Critical thought and faith go together18:40 - Ex-vangelical deconstruction20:37 - Deconstruction is a response to fundamentalism24:21 - Finite being can't know with certainty27:39 - Greame's experience with prayer34:26 - Truth is a relationship37:36 - Truth is found in synthesis40:14 - Christianity's truth is best understood as a whole46:37 - Deconstructing a mechanistic view of churchPodcast hosts are Greame Flett, Jonathan Hoskin, and Joey Millington.The opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals expressing and do not reflect the opinions and beliefs of any affiliated organisations or ministries.

Podcast hosts are Greame Flett, Jonathan Hoskin, and Joey Millington.The opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals expressing and do not reflect the opinions and beliefs of any affiliated organisations or ministries.

This week Graeme, Jonathan, and Joey discussed what it means to be human and how the church is the place that helps people become fully alive in Christ. This conversation centres on a Saint Irenaeus quote, "the glory of God is a human being fully alive." We discuss the importance of balancing transcendence, materiality, relationships, and freedom, arguing that modern society's overemphasis on materiality and disembodiment has led to a spiritual void. The Lord's Prayer is highlighted as embodying these four aspects, suggesting it as a model for holistic human development.00:00 Anthropology and what it means to be human matters.02:09 "The glory of God is a human fully alive."05:11 The church helps people become fully human07:01 Embodiment and being human10:01 Being fully human is more than just 'discipleship'16:07 The importance of priests for being human23:36 The FOUR essentials of being human27:35 The Lord's Prayer and being human41:00 Priests and our humanity45:55 Our culture knows we are less humanLunch on The Way is a podcast that deeply discusses Christianity, Church, Culture, and Jesus.Available on ALL podcast platforms https://lunchontheway.buzzsprout.com/sharePodcast hosts are Greame Flett, Jonathan Hoskin, and Joey Millington.The opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals expressing and do not reflect the opinions and beliefs of any affiliated organisations or ministries.

In this episode Jonathan, Graeme, and Joey announce something big, critique the current formation movement as a potentially falling into legalism, how to live with wisdom on the formation journey, catching the "wind" of the Spirit, and the importance of churches being an alternative space to the frameworks and realities of the world. This episode is a mixture of many different topics, but we still hope you can engage with something on the way.Podcast hosts are Greame Flett, Jonathan Hoskin, and Joey Millington.The opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals expressing and do not reflect the opinions and beliefs of any affiliated organisations or ministries.

In this episode, Jonathan, Graeme, Joey break open a controversial topic relating to church growth and the pursuit of more. They undercover insights only someone who cares not for the consequences of thinking and questioning can unearth. Therefore, the listener needs to approach this conversation with the best of intentions; assuming the guys are love Jesus, the church, and what God to rule on earth as in heaven.EnjoyPodcast hosts are Greame Flett, Jonathan Hoskin, and Joey Millington.The opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals expressing and do not reflect the opinions and beliefs of any affiliated organisations or ministries.

In this conversation, Graeme and Joey sit down with Rev. Dr. Clint Ussher who leads The Well in Christchurch, NZ and the Centre for Church Leadership. It was an open and honest conversation about church planting, identity in Christ, what pastors are sensing in New Zealand, and much more.Podcast hosts are Greame Flett, Jonathan Hoskin, and Joey Millington.The opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals expressing and do not reflect the opinions and beliefs of any affiliated organisations or ministries.

In this conversation, Jonathan and Joey tease out the tensions we manage within the church and as we follow Jesus.00:00 Introduction00:42 Tensions are not problems to be solved6:11 Theological tensions to manage10:05 Slacklining as a metaphor for tension12:07 More tensions or prayer, salvation, and more15:10 TENSION 1: Doing vs Theological Reflection24:29 TENSION 2: Popular Voices vs Local VoicesPodcast hosts are Greame Flett, Jonathan Hoskin, and Joey Millington.The opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals expressing and do not reflect the opinions and beliefs of any affiliated organisations or ministries.

In this episode the guys talk about their experience of listening to God's voice and what that means for them, some of the problematic aspects of claiming you've heard from God, and a way forward to better discern God's voice during big decisions.Email [email protected]:00 Introduction00:42 Catching up on life03:20 Our experiences with hearing God's voice14:52 Honest & integrity help you hear18:14 Grieving the Holy Spirit (Eph 4)22:10 Justification vs personal holiness24:58 Listen & don't listen to others27:40 One-way & two-way door decisions33:50 Jon Hoskin's advice36:13 Is saying "God told me" problematic?44:40 Be ready to act on God's voice48:51 OutroPodcast hosts are Greame Flett, Jonathan Hoskin, and Joey Millington.The opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals expressing and do not reflect the opinions and beliefs of any affiliated organisations or ministries.

In this episode, Graeme, Jonathan, and Joey discuss the cultural obsession with power and attempt to rebalance the conversation, pointing to Jesus as the example of what to do with the power you have.Podcast hosts are Greame Flett, Jonathan Hoskin, and Joey Millington.The opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals expressing and do not reflect the opinions and beliefs of any affiliated organisations or ministries.

In this episode, Joey and Graeme discuss the importance of theological reflection in moments of crisis. They cover how to think well during critical incidents, what is critical thinking and theological reflection, the importance of crisis, why COVID was a crisis for the church, getting deeper and not more pragmatic, the issues the church is forced to wrestle with, being okay with uncomfortable questions, education that enables critical thinking, Joey's Sunday morning reflections, the WHY that theological reflection rediscovers, and where to begin with theological reflection.Podcast hosts are Greame Flett, Jonathan Hoskin, and Joey Millington.The opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals expressing and do not reflect the opinions and beliefs of any affiliated organisations or ministries.

In this conversation, the guys talk about Graeme trip to the US as a delivered a paper at the Media Ecology Conference.00:00 Introduction02:30 Graeme at the Media Ecology Conference07:58 Graeme's Experience of AMERICA14:30 Is AI and Tech Bad?24:40 Why a Theological-Anthropology Matters34:50 How do we Know Who we are?38:30 Having a Relationship with AI45:30 Will AI make critical thinking extinct?51:30 An Important StoryLunch on The Way is a podcast that deeply discusses Christianity, Church, Culture, and Jesus.Available on ALL podcast platforms https://lunchontheway.buzzsprout.com/sharePodcast hosts are Greame Flett, Jonathan Hoskin, and Joey Millington.The opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals expressing and do not reflect the opinions and beliefs of any affiliated organisations or ministries.

Lunch on The Way is a podcast that deeply discusses Christianity, Church, Culture, and Jesus.Available on ALL podcast platforms https://lunchontheway.buzzsprout.com/shareIn this episode the guys bring back Sam Burrows to talk more about the meta-crisis with our youth (03:02), with education (11:50), wha the meta-crisis is (14:12), a way of answering it (17:00), who Ayaan Hirsi Ali is (21:22), the death of post-modernism (24:57), a desire for nostalgia (28:33), what Christian disruption is (34:55), how this is different to post-modernism (40:15), and Sam's new podcast.Makerspace PodcastiTunes https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/makerspace/id1753646625Spotify https://open.spotify.com/show/1DklD6kT4wEWUaF64y8pRh?si=f06b99d087ea4941&nd=1&dlsi=2600c2c0b6f6457f&fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTAAAR2TiFKx1aAeZw5Pr47bWxzq2eWJMd5rmTy2vv3zWrqbbncsifcUrrSABPI_aem_2lLfKKYKYQ9HyKanMSxEFgPodcast hosts are Greame Flett, Jonathan Hoskin, and Joey Millington.The opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals expressing and do not reflect the opinions and beliefs of any affiliated organisations or ministries.

In this conversation, Jonathan, Graeme, and Joey discuss the good, bad, and intriguing metaphors that shape our understanding of the world, church, and our humanity. They discuss how metaphors create realities (03:30), what a metaphor is (06:10), the problematic metaphors were us as Christians (09:30), how metaphors reveal what we desire (19:30), how metaphors guide the church but should be clearly known (24:30), how Genesis 3 and the Garden is the greatest metaphor (28:45), why the Bible doesn't allow us to use just any metaphor (32:02), how biblical metaphor shape us (36:40), important New Testament metaphors (43:49), what happens when biblical metaphors are taken out of context (49:10), metaphors for ministry (51:19), and advice for Christians from this conversation (52:30).Podcast hosts are Greame Flett, Jonathan Hoskin, and Joey Millington.The opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals expressing and do not reflect the opinions and beliefs of any affiliated organisations or ministries.

In this conversation, Graeme and Joey sit down with Dr. Clare Knowles who is a translation coordinator at Bible Society NZ. We discuss what Bible Society NZ is (12:42), the work Clare is currently doing with the Tokelauan Bible (14:18), cultural contextualisation and the Bible (22:50), the relationship between translation and interpretation (33:23), the ambitious sign-language project (43:18), the best/worst Bible translations (48:50), and AI and Bible translating (53:45).Podcast hosts are Greame Flett, Jonathan Hoskin, and Joey Millington.Podcast hosts are Greame Flett, Jonathan Hoskin, and Joey Millington.The opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals expressing and do not reflect the opinions and beliefs of any affiliated organisations or ministries.

Lunch on The Way is a podcast that deeply discusses Christianity, Church, Culture, and Jesus.Available on ALL podcast platforms https://lunchontheway.buzzsprout.com/shareIn this conversation, Jonathan and Joey weave between two main topics but begin with discussion discarding dualism (03:30), how liturgy straightens the soul like a piece of bent wood (06:53), whether we can really change through habit forming or if we need the Spirit to do that deep work (12:10), Joey and Jonathan's experiences will evangelism (21:20), how to actually invite someone to follow Jesus (30:45), how people need evangelistic structures like Alpha (35:35), why stepping out and into reliance on God is so important (46:30), they theologians need to be more than just thinkers but prayers (48:04), how people are desiring to be a part of evangelism again (50:40), and how a hunger for Jesus is all that matters in life (55:55).Podcast hosts are Greame Flett, Jonathan Hoskin, and Joey Millington.The opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals expressing and do not reflect the opinions and beliefs of any affiliated organisations or ministries.

In this conversation, Graeme and Joey discuss Carey Nieuwhof's latest Auckland, NZ church leadership and trends discussion but add their own thoughts to his "shifts" and "moves." They discuss how NZ church is 10yrs ahead of North America (3:08), online church possibly reaching unchurched people (10:38), people seeing us more than God (33:13), dissatisfaction with mirroring culture (36:05), the rise in authenticity (41:27), how content is not church (45:23), seeing people as more than a binary (49:16), over-editing the Sunday Service (51:00), non-toxic church culture (52:05), and much more.Podcast hosts are Greame Flett, Jonathan Hoskin, and Joey Millington.The opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals expressing and do not reflect the opinions and beliefs of any affiliated organisations or ministries.

Lunch on The Way is a podcast that deeply discusses Christianity, Church, Culture, and Jesus.Available on ALL podcast platforms https://lunchontheway.buzzsprout.com/shareIn this conversation the guys get honest and discuss last week's LIVE RECORDING (00:31), whether current trends and changing are going to stick in churches (07:03), if business methodology and church needs a new critical eye (15:25), how leadership and pastoral ministry are different (25:52), the way we see the world vs how we need to see the world (30:03), and much more (39:37)!Podcast hosts are Greame Flett, Jonathan Hoskin, and Joey Millington.The opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals expressing and do not reflect the opinions and beliefs of any affiliated organisations or ministries.

Welcome to our very first LIVE RECORDING of Lunch on The Way held at Laidlaw College's Orientation Week. In this live conversation we discussed what's on Jonathan's mind (05:32), the church's need for reform (or not) (08:55), what true and false church reform looks like (13:18), John Mark Comer (19:50), wanting deeper things at church (21:13), a radical church change (24:53), the 3 types of church connection (28:25), the need for white spaces (30:15), how online church changes church (31:37), and the biggest challenges facing the church in NZ (37:43)[email protected] hosts are Greame Flett, Jonathan Hoskin, and Joey Millington.The opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals expressing and do not reflect the opinions and beliefs of any affiliated organisations or ministries.

In this episode, Joey and Graeme discuss the Waitangi Day (00:37), tease future podcast topics (03:37), what a "Professional Christian" is (05:01), critique Rick Warren's baseball diamond discipleship pathway (08:35), expose spiritual comparison and pride (11:00), list the qualities of a spiritual person (16:28), discuss holiness compared to personality and culture (21:05), define what holiness is (28:15), explain the concept of Entire Sanctification (31:25), and finish explaining how following Jesus is a journey (39:30).Email us at [email protected] hosts are Greame Flett, Jonathan Hoskin, and Joey Millington.The opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals expressing and do not reflect the opinions and beliefs of any affiliated organisations or ministries.

In this episode, the guys begin 2024 talking about what "Real Christianity" is all about. They look at John Mark Comer's take on contemporary church service and Christian formation, and Jonathan discusses what the "new martyrdom" is for the modern West.Email us at [email protected] hosts are Greame Flett, Jonathan Hoskin, and Joey Millington.The opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals expressing and do not reflect the opinions and beliefs of any affiliated organisations or ministries.

In this episode, the guys look forward with the help of Sam Burrows to what 2024 will bring for the world and church. They also bring their sense of hope into an otherwise uncertain 2024.Email us at [email protected] hosts are Greame Flett, Jonathan Hoskin, and Joey Millington.The opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals expressing and do not reflect the opinions and beliefs of any affiliated organisations or ministries.