Marketing For Learning®

The conversation delves into the death of a campaign and the marketing strategy behind it. It introduces the fictional business Axion and its learning program Apex, highlighting the tragic death of Apex due to neglect. The importance of personalization in marketing is emphasized, drawing parallels with Netflix's approach to personalization. The conversation delves into the critical elements of successful campaigns, emphasizing the importance of design, copywriting, and strategy. It highlights the need for integrated and consistent marketing efforts that span a period of time to capture attention, build trust, and drive action.TakeawaysThe five things that make learning campaigns die prematurely Marketing Strategy Design is as important as your learning productsCampaigns need to span a period of time

Attention is our employee's most equitable asset - but there's fierce competition for it. Marking the first episode of 2026, Ashley joins Giles Hearn, Chief Marketing Officer at The Learning and Performance Institute  and unpicks the challenges L&D are really facing. A meaty conversation for a meaty subject.  Get stuck in!

Marketing in learning isn’t just about flashy emails or poster campaigns. It’s about trust, visibility, and staying human, especially when the ground is shifting under our feet. In this episode, Ashley Hinchcliffe and Hannah Clark unpack why silence is the enemy of People functions, and how to keep your audiences engaged when uncertainty, redundancies, and AI-fuelled upheaval dominate the workplace. From K-pop obsessions to bluntly honest bank ads, they explore what makes campaigns stick in 2025, why hyper-realism beats sugar-coated spin, and how multi-channel, multi-touch campaigns are the only way to cut through the noise. If your L&D or HR team has ever wondered how to keep marketing alive in messy times, this conversation will show you why the fundamentals matter more than ever. SHOW NOTES Learner Journey Mapping Guide Ashley's LinkedIn Hannah's LinkedIn

This isn’t your average EdTech chinwag. In this special episode of the Marketing for Learning podcast, Ashley is joined by Lori Niles-Hofmann (author of The 8 Levers of EdTech Transformation) and Dr. Serena Gonsalves-Fersch (Global Head of Talent at SoftwareOne) for a no-fluff, no-slides-needed conversation about what really makes EdTech work — and what makes people quietly nope out of your platform. Together, the trio unpacks: The 8 levers of effective EdTech transformation The “leavers” - ie, things we desperately need to bin Why being data-informed trumps being data-obsessed What marketing, memory, and a badly-behaved agent called Sven have in common And why context, not content, is what really matters If you’ve ever been promised an “AI-powered, Netflix-of-learning” experience and ended up with a glorified folder of SCORM files, this one’s for you. RESOURCES:  Lori's Book - The 8 Levers of Ed Tech Transformation Serena's YouTube Channel The People Impact Loop® Guide

L&D doesn’t need more content. Or more dashboards. Or more chaos. It needs structure. Strategy. And a system that actually works. In this final episode of Series 2, Han brings it all together — showing how every part of the People Impact Loop® helps you stop reacting and start delivering real, measurable change. You’ll learn: Why understanding your audience is the first, and most important, step How alignment and experience design unlock real relevance And why marketing and measurement aren’t “nice-to-haves”, they’re how you create and prove value This isn’t a recap. It’s a blueprint. Because impact doesn’t come from good intentions. It comes from good design — built in a loop that never stops working for you.   LINKS: Learn more about the People Impact Loop® Take the People Impact Loop® diagnostic 

L&D knows measurement matters. But when the pressure’s on to “prove impact,” most teams default to what’s easy, not what’s meaningful. In this episode, we’re joined by Nelson Sivalingam to unpack how learning functions can shift from reporting activity to demonstrating real business value. We explore: Why traditional learning metrics fall short How to connect learning with performance and behaviour change What it takes to embed measurement into the entire learning process, not just the end This isn’t about dashboards or data overload.  It’s about designing for outcomes from the start — and knowing what success actually looks like. Because if you don’t define impact, you’ll never be able to prove it. LINKS: Connect with Nelson on LinkedIn  Check out HowNow Fancy reading Nelson’s book, Learning at Speed? Grab your copy here.

Most L&D “campaigns” are a poster, an email, and… silence. This episode calls time on one-and-done launches — and digs into what it really takes to build marketing for learning® campaigns that cut through the noise and drive action. You’ll learn: Why real campaigns don’t end at launch How to apply multi-channel, audience-first thinking to internal comms What L&D can steal from politics, brand marketing and behavioural science If your initiatives start strong and fizzle fast, this episode is for you.  Because attention isn’t guaranteed. You’ve got to earn it — and keep earning it.   LINKS  How to build a learning campaign guide  Learn more about our L&D campaign-in-a-box  Download our campaign-in-a-box brochure 

Learning isn’t broken because people are lazy. It’s broken because the experience is. In this episode, we’re joined by Tom McDowall to talk about why most learning still feels like a chore, and how to change it.  We get into: Why more content ≠ more impact How to design frictionless, user-led learning journeys And what L&D can learn from UX, product, and service design This one’s for anyone sick of seeing learning dumped on a platform and called a solution. Because if the experience sucks, the outcomes will too. LINKS:  Tom McDowall on LinkedIn  IDT YouTube Channel

Too many L&D teams are building content for “learners” — not people. In this episode, Ash and Han dive into the one thing that makes or breaks every learning initiative: knowing your audience. Not their job title. Not their LMS login history. But what actually drives them. They unpack: Why “employees” and “learners” aren’t real personas How to ask the right people the right questions (and avoid confirmation bias) What to do with audience research once you’ve got it — and how to avoid building blind So, if you’re still building learning based on job titles, gut feel, or “what we’ve always done” — this one’s for you. Because relevance starts with understanding. And understanding starts here. LINKS: Free guide to building learner personas Learner persona template Follow MAAS Marketing on LinkedIn

This week, Han’s joined by the brilliant Heather Burright — and they’re cutting straight to the core of what’s holding L&D back. Spoiler: it’s not a lack of content. It’s a lack of curiosity. This episode covers: What it really means to identify root problems — and why content alone doesn’t drive change How to build trust with stakeholders (so you can disagree and still stay in the room) Why asking better questions leads to better learning — and better outcomes This is a must-listen for anyone stuck in firefighting mode, drowning in requests, or quietly screaming inside every time someone says, “we just need a quick e-learning.” Because we’re not here to be content vending machines. We’re here to drive real change. And that starts with one simple shift: Stop rushing to build. Start learning to ask. LINKS: Heather Burright’s LinkedIn  Learning For Good Podcast  Learn more about the People Impact Loop®

Most L&D teams are stuck in a cycle of activity. Not impact. In this episode, your fav duo are back to rip into the status quo — and dig deeper into the People Impact Loop®: a no-fluff framework that helps People functions stop shouting into the void and start making measurable change. We’re talking: Why “aligning to business goals” isn’t optional (and how to actually do it) Why your learners are subscribers — and should be treated like it How long-term thinking beats one-off learning blasts, every time And the big one: how to prove impact without needing a PhD in data science. If your learning strategy feels more like guesswork than growth — this one’s for you. LINKS: People Impact Loop® diagnostic Learn more about the People Impact Loop® Follow MAAS Marketing on LinkedIn

Drum roll please... 🥁🥁🥁 After lots of speculation and guessing, it's time for you to meet the People Impact Loop™. You've got the potential. You've got the passion. Yet you are still undervalued and constantly fighting for relevance.  The issue isn’t effort or ideas – it’s the lack of a system that makes their work essential. For decades, the same challenges have persisted: low engagement, leadership buy-in struggles, and initiatives that fail to gain traction. And now, at last, the People Impact Loop™ changes that. So get your listening ears on, and settle in for a podcast that is going to change the way you look at L&D, forever. 

You’ve built an amazing learning product - now what? In this episode, Ashley and Hannah break down why marketing isn’t just a bolt-on to learning but a fundamental part of making it successful. They dive into how positioning, messaging, and audience research can transform a learning experience from nice to have to unmissable. Expect insights on emotional triggers, behavioural science, multi-channel campaigns, and why generic messaging just won’t cut it. Plus, plenty of playful banter, pineapple references, and a reminder that “learning” alone isn’t a selling point. SHOW NOTES: The AIDAL Model – A previous episode covering the AIDAL (Attention, Interest, Desire, Action, Loyalty) framework, which was a key part of the discussion on structuring marketing campaigns. Behavioural Science in Marketing for Learning® – Relevant when discussing FOMO, urgency, and how to create demand for learning. Strategic Marketing for People Functions course 

Your favourite duo is back to discuss a contentious topic in L&D: The Technology Trap. Of course, we all know technology is a critical tool in forward thinking L&D teams, but can it solve all of our issues? (Shock horror, Ash and Han don't think so!)  In this episode we discuss:  The importance of understanding the user experience and the need for root cause analysis to understand engagement challenges.  Why audience centricity is key for future-proofing your L&D function.  The importance of aligning your strategy, to the business goals, then finding the right tech to enable your strategy.  So whether you're a tech lover, or hater, or somewhere in between... we're sure this ep will give you loads of food for thought!   

In this fantastic ep, Ash and Georgie Cooke dive into the crucial link between employee experience and L&D, covering everything from culture and management to learning opportunities. They explore why audience insights matter, how to personalise learning, and the necessity of aligning L&D with business goals. The conversation also tackles blended learning, accessibility, and the challenges of measuring impact, urging L&D to rethink success beyond just engagement metrics. Links:  Georgie Cooke's LinkedIn Lima Delta's website  Ash's LinkedIn Our Strategic Marketing Course   

In the second episode of our series "From Training to Transformation: Redefining L&D’s Role" Ash and Han delve into the critical role of stakeholders in transforming L&D from a cost centre to a strategic business partner. This ep is jam-packed with practical tips and insights including: Why it is critically important for L&D to align to the business goals. How you can engage with senior leaders and find out the crucial insights needed for success.  The power of shifting from a training-needs mindset, to a performance-needs approach. Whether you're a seasoned L&D pro or just starting your career, this episode will challenge you to think differently about how L&D can truly serve as a driver of business success. Happy listening!    LINKS: Strategic Marketing for L&D Programme Ash's LinkedIn  Han's LinkedIn 

New Series! From Training To Transformation: Redefining L&D’s Role.  We're so excited to announce our new multi-episode podcast series on L&D transformation. Our first episode kicks off with Derek Mitchell, Analytics Partner at Novo Nordisk.  In this episode Derek discusses the critical role of data in L&D. He emphasises using data to proactively identify training needs, personalise communications, and measure the impact of learning initiatives. He also highlights the importance of moving beyond traditional metrics like course completions to focus on performance, skills growth, and behaviour change.  It's a fantastic episode, and definitely sets the scene for this crucial series!  Links:  Derek's LinkedIn Ashley's LinkedIn  Strategic Marketing for L&D Course     

Grab your tissues... because this is the final time you'll hear from Ash & Han in 2024! 😢 But indulge us in an episode of reflections on the crazy year that was 2024. From their personal highlights (did they mention 2 weddings & a baby?!), they also share their highlights from L&D in 2024, and look ahead to a very exciting 2025.  See you on the other side, our dear Marketing For Learning friends 🍍

What are the big L&D trends of 2025? Well we don't know... but Han asked Chat GPT, and unsurprisingly she didn't like it's answer. So in this episode Han discusses the 'trends' we see year after year, and what she thinks should be the trend of 2025.   

For all you lifelong, lucky listeners we're giving you 10% off our new 'Strategic Marketing for L&D Leaders' course, which kicks off on March 5th, 2025. It's our Masterclass, but it's getting a facelift and a much bigger emphasis on strategic marketing. Lots more information on our website if you want it.  If you want a 10% off voucher, just message Ash on LinkedIn and tell her you want to join the #PineappleArmy. We'll do the rest!  P.S. Sorry for the weird promo - normal service resumes next week!  

Does everybody just know the value of L&D? That's what most learning professionals seem to think. And shock... Han disagrees.  It's time L&D stopped assuming everybody knows our value... now is the time to prove it. In this episode, Han is going to cover: The danger of assumptions. Why data is your best friend. Why it's time to own our craft and align with the business goals. If you’re ready to step up, take ownership, and do something different. This is the ep for you.   Happy listening friendos 🍍   LINKS: Data in L&D: An interview with NilesNolen Data, Analytics and Testing in marketing for learning® Data-led marketing at Novo Nordisk with Peter Manniche Riber

When we mutter the phrase "internal comms" to many of our clients, we see them shudder. "Do we have to get them involved? They're always a blocker to our plans!" We've heard it all before... So in this ep, Ash and Han address why internal comms *must* be involved in your marketing for learning initiatives, and how to make the whole thing smoother.  Happy listening guys!    LINKS: Internal comms, friend or foe?

Welcome to the 2nd edition of our Sunday Surgery - our brand new feature on the Marketing for Learning pod. These episodes are designed to help real L&Ders tackle their real challenges in a free consultancy session with Ash and Han.  In this session Vesta Charleshouse, Learning Coordinator at AMICULUM (and marketing for learning masterclass alumni!) joins Han to discuss getting more from what she has with her marketing approaches. From casting the net wider with influencers, to using MailChimp for email marketing, this episode is a juicy one. Oh also, if you want to come on the Surgery and get a free consultancy session with Han or Ash, just email us at [email protected]. It's completely free, it'll just cost you the time a recording takes!  NOTES:  Vesta’s LinkedIn Han’s LinkedIn  Come on our surgery: [email protected] 

Inspired by a chat with Laura Overton at World of Learning, Han is here this week to talk to you about making 'movements' in L&D, alongside your marketing efforts. And it's all about relinquishing control and enabling your people to do it themselves!   LINKS: Han's LinkedIn The Influencer Marketing Episode

Hot off the back of World of Learning, Han is here to set the record straight: Marketing for Learning is for ALL businesses, no matter your size! You have an L&D team? Fab. Now think about marketing.  Simples.    Links: Han's LinkedIn Our personas ebook

James Blunt is a musician who knows how to get attention. In this episode Ash examines why his latest PR stunt is a masterclass in marketing and virality.  SHOW NOTES James' video on X  Marketing Masterclass info

Welcome to the first edition of our Sunday Surgery - our brand new feature on the Marketing for Learning pod. These episodes are designed to help real L&Ders tackle their real challenges in a free consultancy session with Ash and Han.  In this first session Louise Donnelly, Senior Learning Manager and Stephen Clark, Learning Technologies Manager bring a challenge our gals have seen time and time again: "We're building a thing, what do we call it?"  So, what's in a name? Let's explore, shall we...  Oh also, if you want to come on the Surgery and get a free consultancy session with Han and Ash, just email us at [email protected]. It's completely free, it'll just cost you a recording so others can benefit from our conversation!  NOTES:  Louise's LinkedIn  Stephen's LinkedIn  Come on our surgery: [email protected] 

WOWZERS. Episode ONE HUNDRED. We can't quite believe we've hit this milestone. So to mark the occasion, Han has handpicked the best bits from all 100 episodes, to share with you today. From campaigns to mindset - this episode covers it all. So grab a glass of fizz! - or a brew if you'd prefer - and share the next 30ish minutes with us as we toast 100 episodes of the Marketing for Learning® podcast.   LINKS:  Han's LinkedIn Ash's LinkedIn  Full episodes: Beyond Bums On Seats: Solving The Engagement Challenge How Would A Marketer Do L&D? Storytelling With Nick Shackleton-Jones L&D's Awareness Problem Creating Demand For Learning UX Design In Learning & Development Why Think Like A Marketer How To Create A Learning Campaign Data In L&D: An Interview With NilesNolen  

Coming at you LIVE from LEARNING LIVE 2024... Ash and Han discuss one topic that has come up numerous times during this event: Market Research. No, it's not a sexy topic. But it's critical for your marketing for learning® success. So in this bitesized episode, we tell you how and why research is so important in L&D.   LINKS: Our latest ebook Han's LinkedIn Ash's LinkedIn 

Why do things go viral? How come humans seem to want to do something just because everyone else is? It's because of the psychological phenomenon called 'the bandwagon effect'. Ash explores with you what the bandwagon effect is, and how we can start to use this cognitive, unconscious bias to our advantage in marketing for learning®.    NOTES & LINKS:  What is the bandwagon effect? Ep 13 - L'Oreal's learning culture with Caroline Fitzpatrick Ep 56 - Leveraging FOMO for impact Ashley's LinkedIn 

In this ep, Han is joined by Sam Goodman, L&D Manager at ITPEnergised. Sam is a teacher, who has transitioned over to L&D – and for that reason he has a super interesting take on engagement at all stages of the learning experience.  This episode covers a range of topics, including: Contextualising learning for your audience The power of humility in learning and marketing  How a marketing mindset will help L&Ders And as Han promised in the ep, here's the link to the Learner Personas guide. Han's LinkedIn  Sam's LinkedIn 

Competitions are a great tactic to boost engagement, right!? Welllllllll... Han disagrees. And in this podcast episode she explains why. Listen in to learn more about: The cobra effect The pitfalls of incentivising learning When you can use competitions or incentives (but Han is still reluctant!)  LINKS: Han's Linkedin The AIDAL episode of the podcast And a lil' shout out to Tom McDowall and his podcast, Instructional Design Tips

Ever struggle to find inspiration for your marketing for learning efforts? 🤔 Well in this episode Han's going to help you put a stop to that. For 17 hours she took note of all of the adverts she saw, and now in this episode, she's translating them into inspiration for YOUR marketing for learning campaigns. Ain't she great?!   LINKS: Han's LinkedIn profile Grace Beverley's Podcast, Working Hard, Hardly Working  Boot's latest TV advert

Want to better understand what in the heckiddy heck your people are doing on your learning platforms? Then you need to start monitoring bounce rate. Ashley tells all in this short, exploratory episode!  Ashley's LinkedIn  Google Analytics 

No, Han hasn't had a complete leave of her senses while Ash is away. But she really does think there are some instances where marketing won't help L&D... particularly if: Your learning experience is pants You haven't changed your thinking You aren't thinking long-term! So if you want to know the pitfalls to avoid, this ep is for you. Happy listening! 🍍

What if we told you that we have one, really easy trick to make your learning land better with your audience? Well you're in luck. Because that's exactly what Han's bringing to the podcast today. And it's all about terminology. If you want to get them to walk the walk, you've gotta talk their talk.    LINKS: Han's LinkedIn 4 P's Podcast 

The question of the day: Why is engagement still L&D's biggest challenge? Well it's no surprise that Han's got an opinion on this topic and she's here to give her two cents (including the fact she doesn't think marketing for learning® is the sole solution to the engagement challenge). 

Every time Pinocchio lied, his nose got longer. The outputs and impact of his lie was immediate. And although that stopped Pinocchio lying, might bringing the outputs and impact of learning into the immediate term make people learn MORE? Han thinks so, and in this episode, she explains why.   LINKS: Han’s LinkedIn Seth Godin’s newsletter about the Pinocchio protocol. Choice Hacking

It's story time with Han this week, as she lets us in on a client conversation that really got her cogs turning. In this bite sized ep, Han delves into demand generation, and how it might help all L&Ders (and stakeholders!) think differently about marketing for learning®.   

Has Han lost the plot? Or should L&D really be eating dog food? OK. She doesn't mean it literally, but eating your own dog food means using your product or service in the way a user would use it. And that means that L&D need to start learning – using the platforms and services we want our people to use.  This bitesized episode will help you understand why using your own learning products helps L&D teams: Market their offering accurately and authentically  Improve empathy with their target audience Enhance, tweak and adapt their learning products.  Happy listening! 

Have you heard the news? We won the Awareness Campaign of the Year award at the British Training Awards with our friends at Capgemini University! 🎉  But no, this isn’t a pod of us blowing our own trumpet – Han’s letting you in on the secrets that made this campaign so, SO impactful. Including Why getting marketing involved from programme inception is so important How learner personas were key to success The difference long-term planning made to this project  So, get this pod in your ear’oles to see how you can make your next marketing for learning initiative truly impactful!      LINKS: Learner Personas Guide Han’s LinkedIn  British Training Awards from New Possible

It's a question many of us have pondered - could that learning module have just been an email? How much of my learning is actually just information that I could communicate in a different way? In this podcast, Ashley invites two industry experts to talk about the world of learning and whether L&D REALLY could be replaced by marketing and comms.  SHOW NOTES:  Dr Heidi Kirby's LinkedIn Heidi's BLOC podcast Loren Sanders' LinkedIn  Loren's book  Ashley's LinkedIn  

Han and Ash often offer up a lot of criticism for how things are done in L&D. So could they do it better? This episode the ladies examine what they'd do in a senior L&D role, using their marketing brains. Very interesting chat indeed. NilesNolen Learning Triage flowchart Hannah's LinkedIn Ashley's LinkedIn

Han and Ash keep telling you to 'take your learning hat off'... but what on earth does that mean?! In this pod, Han dives right into what it means and how you can up the empathy with your target audience.  Short and sweet. Just like the pod host. Although that would more likely be short and sassy... whatevs.    LINKS: Han's LinkedIn  Learner Persona Ebook

Ah yes, another year, another Learning at Work Week. Cue a flurry of marketing activities.  This week Ash raises an important question: Is LAWW doing more harm than good, or should we be doing marcoms around this? Not quite an Ashley rant, but nearly 🤣 Ashley's LinkedIn

We've spoken about the value proposition canvas (VPC) a few times on the pod. But in this ep, Han's shaking things up – and she thinks she's come up with the perfect VPC for L&D. One that's going to help you make real marketing magic. 🪄   LINKS: Value Proposition Canvas Template Han's LinkedIn Profile 

People Experience roles are on the rise and L&D is in a constant state of shift. In this unique conversation Ash chats to Josh Novelle, VP of People Experience and Insight at HSBC to discuss the role of L&D in modern enterprises, and what we need to do to remain relevant and valuable to the businesses we service. What a crackin' conversation! Josh's LinkedIn Ashley's LinkedIn 

Brand hierarchies (aka, brand architecture) are an essential element of marketing for learning®, and also grossly overlooked by you L&D folk. In this short episode Ash discusses what brand hierarchies are, why they're important and why it's absolutely critical to establish how all your corporate brands interplay with each other BEFORE you start big pieces of marketing work.  Save yourself a headache, start up those brand hierarchy discussions early and really understand what you can actually do from a branding perspective from the outset, instead of trying to figure it amidst a project! 

In this super juicy episode, Ash is joined by Sarah Hatton, Chief Learning Officer at The LPI, to discuss their recently released 2024 Learning Survey. Ash and Sarah discuss what’s changing in L&D, the direction of travel of our industry, and what we need to do to stay future focused. Happy listening! LINKS: The LPI Learning Survey 2024 Sarah's LinkedIn Ash's LinkedIn 

Do marketing campaigns work for L&D? Well yeah, of course they do! But not everyone's convinced... In this podcast episode, Han sets the record straight on why campaigns are a great decision for all L&D teams.