Mezzo by Chris Damian

In this episode, Christopher Dowling-Magill and Danny Peterson return to share the bizarre and often shocking things their Catholic conversion therapists encouraged them to do in the name of “healing” same-sex attraction. From “non-erotic” group cuddling and “snuggle prayer” to Journey Into Manhood weekends, skate-park inner-child rituals, deliverance sessions, and psychological warfare, they unpack what these practices actually looked like in real life—and how they shaped their bodies, boundaries, and beliefs.We dig into the theology and ideology behind this world: Christopher West’s sexualized sacramental imagery, Courage International’s roots in ex-gay narratives, spiritual warfare explanations for attraction, and the way bishops, dioceses, and “orthodox” Catholic therapists create systems where shame and boundary violations are baked in. The guests reflect on what it meant to realize they were not just victims, but sometimes led into harming others under Church-approved guidance.Finally, they offers a word of hope: leaving conversion therapy doesn’t mean giving up on growth. It means pursuing healing that doesn’t require changing who you are in order to be loved—by God or anyone else.00:00 Bizarre Conversion Therapy Practices01:38 Non-Erotic Touch and Holding Therapy14:56 Conversion Therapy Camps and Exercises19:23 Theology of the Body and Controversial Teachings23:28 Sexual Content in Catholic Ministries27:36 Church-Induced Angst and Sexuality31:28 Unethical Practices in Therapy33:39 Spiritual Warfare and Conversion Therapy41:33 Institutional Failures and Accountability49:37 A Nugget of Hope: Embracing Growth

A deep, provocative conversation on how Christian communities confuse repression with asceticism—and how that confusion harms women, gay men, and anyone raised in purity culture. We explore the work of Alasdair McIntyre, Sarah Coakley Coakley, Augustine, Pope Benedict XVI, and the lived experiences of queer Christians to ask: What does a healthy, imaginative, morally mature approach to sexuality look like? And how can Christians tell better stories about desire, sin, and love?00:00 Repression vs Asceticism01:30 How Christian Sexual Culture Creates False Binaries03:00 The Unique Burden Placed on Women and Gay Men05:30 Why Avoidance Becomes a Moral Trap07:15 Repression as a Hidden Form of Hedonism09:00 St. Francis and the Disruption of False Asceticism10:30 Pleasure, Charity, and Divine Desire12:00 Marriage, Sexual Cycles, and Misunderstood Virtue13:30 Augustine, Sin, and the Logic of Charity14:45 Benedict XVI and Moral Development16:00 Trauma, Fear, and the Moral Imagination18:00 Why Stories Shape Desire20:00 The Church’s Failure of Imagination22:00 Why “No Gay Sex” Was Never Enough23:30 Toward Mercy, Vulnerability, and New Stories

Content warning: This story includes discussions of suicide, sexual violence, assault and abuse, including clergy sexual abuse. If you're having thoughts of suicide, call or text 988.In September 2013, former chancellor Jennifer Haselberger went public with allegations that the Archdiocese of St. Paul and Minneapolis had mishandled clergy sexual abuse cases. A few weeks later, the Department of Catholic Studies at the University of St. Thomas was grappling with accusations in its own community. Father Michael Keating, one of the department's most popular professors, had gone on leave. A young woman had come forward with allegations that he had abused her as a child. The story circulating among students was that she had misremembered and was lashing out because of mental instability. The head of the Department of Catholic Studies, Dr. Don Briel, knew much more than he was letting on. And all of this brought new pain as it was uncovered years later.So what happens when the Church’s silence and institutional neglect continue to allow abuse to flourish? In this latest episode, we explore the horrors behind sacred facades, revealing how charisma and ideology can mask devastation for decades. This episode isn't just a story — it's a call for accountability, a journey through trauma, and an urgent plea for renewal within an institution that is supposed to help those hurting, not harm them more deeply.Chris also shares my own painful journey from admiration to disillusionment, unpacking the scandal of Father Keating’s alleged abuse and the Church’s complicity, as well as the ways in which the Catholic Studies program at the University of St. Thomas furthered harm. And he also uncovers his past experiences of sexual violence in the midst of this. We’ll explore the how Church leadership ignores warning signs, and how a community’s silence can enable ongoing harm — often at the expense of the most vulnerable. We break down the systemic failures and explore the emotional toll on victims who had nowhere to turn, fostering both fury and hope for change.In this episode, you'll uncover:• The complex web of lies, cover-ups, and silence that allowed abuse to persist in Catholic institutions for over a decade• How charisma and intellectual brilliance can be tools of manipulation, enabling predators to evade justice• The subtle ways the Church’s teachings and community dynamics can foster silence and self-blame among survivors• The transformative power of truth-telling, healing, and holding institutions accountable in the fight for justice and renewal• Why acknowledging the ugliness is essential for genuine spiritual and institutional rebirthThis is a story for anyone impacted by abuse, advocates for change within religious communities, and those searching for hope amid betrayal. The Church’s moral authority is at stake — but beyond that, so is its capacity to love and protect its most vulnerable members.00:00 Trigger Warning and Introduction00:49 The Keating Scandal Unfolds02:12 Community Reactions and Internal Struggles04:44 Revelations and Reflections05:35 The Impact of Abuse Documentaries11:36 Keating's Manipulative Behavior13:42 Rage and Responsibility18:53 Institutional Failures and Personal Accountability23:18 A Call for Renewal and Accountability29:16 Reflecting on the Catholic Studies Gala31:07 The Weight of Silence and Misremembering34:21 Messages from Alumni37:33 Personal Achievements and Exclusion42:21 The Power of Inclusion and Belonging46:07 Reconciling with the Past and Moving Forward

This is a deep dive into conversion therapy—its philosophical underpinnings, psychological history, theories, and practices. Conversion therapy shows up in the Church in many ways today and has impacted just about every LGBTQ+ Catholic. If you stick around to the end, you'll learn how conservative promotion of conversion therapy actually has its origins in liberal secular psychoanalysis that treated religion itself as a neurosis.The Church can let go of overly prescriptive and psychologically damaging approaches to homosexuality. Instead of inventing origin stories to change desires, the Church can help Christians clarify contours of their desires and identities, shaping them consistent with Christian commitments.00:00 Introduction to Conversion Therapy03:19 What Actually Is Conversion Therapy10:02 Historical Context and Psychoanalysis13:46 Freud's Influence and Theories17:18 The Gilded Age of Conversion Therapy22:16 Post-Stonewall Shifts and Religious Influence29:57 Modern Developments and Critiques35:46 Exodus International and Desert Stream Ministries37:16 Journey into Manhood: A Controversial Program39:10 The Ex-Gay Narrative in the Catholic Church51:53 The Psychological and Spiritual Harm of Conversion Therapy01:04:39 The Church's Path Forward: Integrating Tradition and Modern Psychology

Last night, I hosted an impromptu discussion on the Supreme Court decision that was just released for the case Chiles v. Salazar. The Court held that conversion therapy bans such as that in Colorado must meet the exacting requirements of strict scrutiny review, putting conversion therapy bans across the country at significant risk. In this discussion, I’m joined by a diverse group of Catholics and ex-Catholics, including: the orthodox Catholic psychologist Julia Sadusky who submitted an amicus brief in the case,conversion therapy survivor and Dear Alana podcast producer Simon Fung,leader of the Catholic ministry Empty Chairs Justin Telthorst, andex-Catholic and co-host of the Leave Laugh Love podcast Veronica Novotny.We explore what the decision means, how it impacts our relationship to the Church, what we hope for the future, and much more!00:00 Introduction to the Case and Participants06:48 Supreme Court Ruling on Conversion Therapy13:57 Understanding the Law and Its Implications21:06 The Role of Therapy and Misconceptions27:56 Personal Reflections and Broader Impacts30:16 Understanding Amicus Briefs and Catholic Perspectives33:03 The Role of Personal Faith in Public Discourse35:39 Conversion Therapy: Personal Experiences and Church Teachings38:36 The Impact of Healing Narratives in the Church42:04 Legal Perspectives on Conversion Therapy and Religious Freedom46:07 Building Bridges: Reaching Religious Communities52:47 The Importance of Dialogue and Understanding in Faith Communities57:37 Future Directions: Advocacy and Education on Conversion Therapy

Many women’s ministries are beacons of faith, community, and empowerment — but what happens when the internal culture turns controlling and toxic?Lindsay Shaw, who found herself deeply embedded in the world of the Catholic ministry Blessed Is She, pulls back the curtain on the spiritual abuse, perfectionism, and betrayal she endured behind the scenes. From navigating the pressures of ministry while battling cancer, to confronting the manipulation crafted by leadership — her story is a powerful wake-up call for anyone involved in high-control religious spaces.We explore how oppressive perfectionism and fear of retaliation create impossible contradictions for women trying to serve faithfully. Lindsay shares concrete examples of the controlling behavior, from being asked to hide her non-Catholic identity, to hiding in bathrooms during Mass, and the emotional toll of a relentless pursuit of perfection that damaged her self-worth and faith. Her story exposes the subtle but devastating ways spiritual abuse can foster shame, silence, and disillusionment — issues often overlooked in faith communities.We break down the patterns of control—rigid standards, silenced dissent, and the suppression of authentic voices—that often come behind the veneer of a loving ministry. Lindsay reflects on the importance of vulnerability, the healing power of community, and her journey toward reclaiming her identity outside the confines of spiritual manipulation. She also offers practical insights for survivors seeking to heal and rebuild trust, emphasizing that true faith nurtures love, dignity, and accountability.This is an listen for anyone questioning their experience in faith-based organizations, women feeling trapped in spiritual environments, or leaders committed to fostering healthier, more authentic communities. Lindsay’s courageous honesty highlights the urgent need for accountability, compassion, and reform within religious spaces — because believing in love and justice is not mutually exclusive.If you’ve ever felt betrayed, silenced, or overwhelmed by spiritual authority, this episode offers hope: healing begins with truth, community, and the refusal to accept abuse in the name of faith.00:00 Introduction to Deconstruction and Healing Conversations01:01 Lindsay's Journey to Blessed Is She03:50 Challenges in Ministry and Maternity Leave05:29 The Growth of Blessed Is She07:42 Exploring Faith and Catholicism11:21 Navigating Mistakes and Accountability14:53 The Impact of Leadership on Community20:09 Personal Struggles and Health Challenges24:45 Cancer Diagnosis and Community Support34:31 Navigating COVID-19 and Personal Beliefs36:38 Transitioning to Teaching: A New Chapter39:33 The Struggles of Leaving a Job41:47 Experiencing Spiritual Abuse45:30 Navigating Identity and Belonging49:09 Healing from Toxic Leadership52:46 Finding Self-Worth Beyond Work55:59 The Complexity of Relationships in Ministry57:14 Advice to My Younger Self01:00:01 Supporting Others in Their Journey01:03:36 The Challenges of Authenticity in Ministry01:07:59 Bonding Through Shared Trauma01:11:58 The Path to Healing and Acceptance01:17:12 Demanding Better from Ministry

Three former writers for Blessed Is She — Colleen, Patty, and Shannon — sit down to tell the inside story of a Catholic women’s ministry that went from a ragtag group of collaborators to a tightly controlled brand.We talk about the early days of genuine community, the slow creep of theological “gatekeeping,” regional Facebook groups that needed “policing,” and how politics, bishops, and big money changed everything.From pulled devotionals and monitored Instagram accounts, to queer women and converts trying to find a home in the Church, this conversation explores spiritual integrity, deconstruction, women’s voices, and what it means to walk away from a ministry that once felt like family.00:00 Introduction to Blessed is She08:04 Early Days of Blessed is She15:34 Transition to Institutionalization25:18 Financial Insights and Monetization35:16 The Lint Book Controversy41:57 Colleen's Exit and Regional Group Issues46:08 Deconstruction and Moving Away from the Church

In this episode, Chris sits down with lobbyist and longtime Hill staffer Dan Tilson to have the kind of conversation you almost never see online: a nuanced, honest look at conservatism from two gay Catholics who refuse to stay inside culture-war boxes.Dan shares his journey from Latin Mass parishes and Republican campaigns to lobbying on immigration, serving at a Catholic food bank, and working with lawmakers across the aisle. They dig into localism vs. centralization, Hannah Arendt’s banality of evil, Vatican II, compassionate conservatism, immigration and dignity, and what it means to seek holiness as “unwanted” people in the Church.They also talk about social media performance vs. real life, LGBTQ Catholics who still love tradition, and Dan’s book Theology for the Unwanted, which invites Catholics to see themselves as part of a much bigger mosaic of grace.Whether you’re progressive, conservative, or totally over labels, this conversation offers a different way to think about politics, faith, and each other.00:00 Dan's Background and Political Journey03:58 Exploring Personal Conservatism09:34 Theological and Philosophical Influences20:33 Immigration and Human Dignity27:58 Global Compassionate Conservatism32:54 Challenges in Progressive and Conservative Approaches36:58 Surrogacy Laws and Church Opposition40:45 Conservatism and Local Solutions49:39 LGBTQ Catholics and Church Inclusion

In this episode, I step back from the culture war and ask a deeper question: what is erotic desire, and what does that mean for homosexuality and homoerotic love within Catholicism? Drawing on Plato, the Greek Fathers, John Paul II, Benedict XVI, and the Catechism, I argue that eros is far bigger than sex—it’s about beauty, creativity, friendship, and pro-creativity in the broadest sense.We explore the difference between homosexuality as a narrow catechetical category and homoerotic desire as any experience of being drawn out of ourselves by the beauty of a same-sex other. I unpack the notorious phrase “intrinsically disordered,” contrast pathological vs teleological readings of Catholic teaching, and show why chastity is about integration of sexuality, not the erasure of desire.Along the way, we talk about spiritual pregnancy, artistic creation, Francis of Assisi as an “erotic man,” the dangers of narcissistic eros, and why grace doesn’t destroy homoerotic desire but purifies and elevates it. If you’ve ever wondered whether there is a positive Catholic account of homoerotic love that takes both the tradition and real human experience seriously, this conversation is for you.00:00 The History of Erotic Desire03:26 Plato's Concept of Eros05:25 Christian Mysticism13:21 Integration of Eros and Agape in Christian Theology31:04 Catholic Teaching on Desire41:20 Chastity and Integration of Sexuality52:48 What's Next For the Church?

What does “traditional Christian marriage” actually mean? In today’s debates about same-sex marriage, Catholics and Christians often argue as if the tradition has always understood marriage as the highest form of friendship, intimacy, and personal fulfillment. But history tells a far more complex—and surprising—story. In this video, Chris Damian (attorney, gay Catholic, and writer) explores how Christian theology has historically understood marriage, friendship, loneliness, and human flourishing, drawing from: - Genesis and the problem of human solitude- Aristotle, Cicero, and Aelred of Rievaulx on friendship- Augustine and Aquinas on marriage and procreation- Modern Catholic developments like bonum coniugum- Pope John Paul II, Pope Francis, and contemporary canon law- The Supreme Court’s reasoning in Obergefell v. HodgesRather than arguing for or against same-sex marriage, this discussion challenges simplistic narratives on all sides and asks a deeper question: Have modern Christians misunderstood their own tradition?00:00 Why Marriage Is Contested02:00 Human Loneliness in Genesis06:00 What Friendship Really Means12:00 Is Marriage a Friendship17:00 Augustine and Aquinas on Marriage22:00 How Catholic Marriage Changed27:00 What Traditional Marriage Was29:30 Final Thoughts on Marriage

Is chastity merely a check-list of bad behaviors for Catholic singles to avoid, or is it something far more expansive—and more human?In this episode, we dive into the recent launch of the dating app Sacred Spark and its controversial "broken heart" badge for those who don’t "value chastity." Using this as a jumping-off point, we peel back the layers of modern "purity culture" to reveal a surprising truth: the Catechism of the Catholic Church actually offers a vision of chastity that is far more nuanced, beautiful, and inclusive than the rigid rules often preached by Church leaders.We explore a number of questions in this episode, including:• Living Ideas vs. Crystallized Dogma: Drawing on Saint John Henry Newman, we explore how true doctrine must evolve and grow to stay alive.• The Catechism’s Hidden Depth: Why the first ten paragraphs on chastity aren’t about sex at all, but about integrity, friendship, and human freedom.• The "Heresy of Hedonism": How a fearful avoidance of intimacy can actually become its own form of self-centeredness.• Social Sins and Sexual Health: A frank discussion on the link between purity culture and conditions like vaginismus, and how communities fail the LGBTQ+ collective by encouraging "double lives."• Chastity as a Journey: Why you can be committed to growth in chastity even if you are having sex before marriage or deconstructing your faith.Whether you’re a devout Catholic, a "heathen" seeker, or somewhere in between, this episode invites you to reclaim chastity as a virtue of integration rather than an instrument of shame.00:00 Introduction to Sacred Spark and Chastity01:13 Understanding Chastity and Doctrine01:51 St. John Henry Newman's Perspective on Doctrine04:21 Misconceptions About Chastity06:44 Chastity as a Living Idea10:01 The Impact of Purity Culture11:37 Chastity and LGBTQ+ Experiences14:10 Chastity and Social Context18:39 Final Thoughts on Chastity22:07 Conclusion

What does it look like when gay, queer, and trans people who were deeply formed by Catholicism sit down and speak honestly—without caricatures, slogans, or outrage?In this roundtable conversation, former and current Catholic insiders share their stories of faith, deconstruction, relationships, theology, and rebuilding a life after coming out. Many of us were theology students, pro-life activists, Latin Mass attendees, or church workers. We know the tradition intimately—and that’s why these conversations matter.This isn’t about winning arguments or tearing down the Church. It’s about telling the truth of lived experience, breaking down stereotypes on all sides, and creating space for deeper empathy, connection, and honesty.If you’re Catholic, queer, questioning, deconstructing, or trying to love someone who is—this conversation is for you.00:00 – Life Beyond Catholic Caricatures02:00 – Stories, Faith, and Deconstruction03:10 – Theology of the Body and Queer Experience05:00 – Desire, Love, and Real Relationships07:40 – What Changed After Coming Out11:00 – Normal Life, Privilege, and Safety18:30 – Building a Life with Openness and Joy

Content warning: This conversation includes discussions of suicide, mental health crises, and related topics. If you're struggling, call or text 988. I spent a weekend with a group of people who grew up in intense Catholic environments. We all ended up in different places. Some are in the Church, some are out. I asked: raise your hand if you at some point had to fight for survival because of messages or struggles within the Church.One person shared: "The Church doesn't know what to do with queer and trans people. You have voices that say marriage is off the table, priesthood is off the table because you're spiritually immature, and the single life isn't virtuous. I caught myself thinking about no longer being here, not because I hated everything, but if there's only three options and all of them are off the table, what is it that I do here?" Another said: "The Church became my chosen family, my entire life. I had always had the vocation of being a wife and mother on my heart. I was racking my brain—I could be a consecrated single and foster children, but the Church would still say they deserve a father and mother. To live a life authentic to myself and to the person I felt God was calling me to be, I was going to lose everyone and everything."For many, the worst part was isolation. "I was a missionary with FOCUS building friendships with people, but I had to show up every day with only 40% of who I was because I couldn't share that I'm condemning myself because I thought a guy on the street looked cute. What I needed was someone to let me be honest, to let me talk about this. If 'affirming' makes you think you're gonna set them up with a match, take a step back. It is simply being that listening ear." We've thought about these issues more than most straight Catholics ever will. We've listened to all the talks, all the books, talked to the priests. We've done it all. The documents you think you can fix your friend with—we've already listened to them. If you want to keep your friends Catholic, just listen.00:00 Introduction: Growing Up Indestructible02:00 Survival and the Church's Stance on LGBTQ+04:37 Personal Stories of Faith and Identity07:33 Isolation and Seeking Help13:34 Mental Health and Religious Discernment17:32 Reality vs. Doctrine20:27 Conclusion: Finding Beauty in Grief and Suffering

Content warning: This conversation includes discussions of purity culture, suicide, mental health struggles, and related topics. I spent a weekend with a group of people—former insiders who grew up in intense Catholic environments. We all ended up in different places today. Some are in the Church, some are out. We spent a weekend having conversations about our lives and what all of this means.The Catechism says chastity is the successful integration of sexuality within the person. One person shared about doing Theology of the Body for Teens at age 12—it emphasized dignity but for her meant shutting down her sexuality entirely because she wanted to be a nun. Others thought they were really good at chastity until they realized they weren't having the struggles their peers had because they were gay, not because they were virtuous. One person said: "I thought it was easy to not have sex with your boyfriend. Turns out I was just lesbian." For transgender Catholics, theology of the body presented prescriptive gender roles that didn't match their experience. The messaging was: "You're supposed to trust your intuition, but not you because you're messed up."Conservative Catholic culture paints two binaries: perfectly ordered integrated sexuality with happy families, or chaos. But Catholics are just as sexually dysfunctional as anyone else. Sex controls your life less when you leave than while white-knuckling your way to heaven. The American Catholic Church has staked so much of what it means to be Catholic on specific culture war issues. But it won't plant the flag on businesses that don't pay employees a living wage. A deconstructed sexuality is much more diverse, much more in line with finding truth, goodness and beauty. There is complexity. Sit with those emotions instead of just grabbing for a definition.00:00 Introduction and Background02:39 Discussing LGBTQ Spaces and Politics02:58 Personal Journeys with Catholicism07:11 Chastity and Integration11:18 Impact of Chastity Teachings17:46 Purity Culture and Queer Erasure19:12 Transgender Experiences in Catholicism20:09 Theology of the Body and Gender Dysphoria30:23 Historical and Modern Queer Catholic Narratives36:55 Concluding Thoughts and Reflections

Dr. Joseph Nicolosi Jr. inherited conversion therapy practices from his father and has considerable influence on the Catholic community. He's been promoted by Lila Rose, the Ruth Institute, Fresh Catholic Podcast, and EWTN. He recently submitted a legal brief about Colorado's conversion therapy ban.Nicolosi rebranded his efforts as "reintegrative therapy" or "sexual attraction fluidity therapy," claiming his treatments are safe, effective, and backed by research. I examined his legal brief to validate these claims.Nicolosi cites two studies. The first is a 2021 study by Carolyn Pela and Philip Sutton. The abstract suggests 75 participants were evaluated over two years. But if you examine table three, only 75 participants took part in the first 6 months—only 22 remained for the full 2 years. This isn't made clear in the text.The study recruited exclusively men who were seeking the outcome it advertised. Men actively seeking changes rated their sexual thoughts over two years. The shifts for those 22 were hardly significant—less than a one-point change on a five-point scale. Between 18-24 months, participants saw reduction in opposite-sex attraction and increase in same-sex attraction. The study has exclusively men and cannot make claims about general human sexuality.The 2024 study Nicolosi relies on was conducted by himself and Jacek Szandula. I searched for Szandula and found he was likely an economics professor with no mental health credentials. The study examined memory reconsolidation for unwanted sexually arousing memories with 144 students. All groups reported decrease in arousal related to memories. This shows promise for treating traumatic memories but has NOT been found effective to promote sexual fluidity.The study states "generalizability for women is limited because nearly 90% of participants were male." Given Nicolosi uses this to support claims that reintegrative therapy is generally helpful, he's misrepresenting his own work.These studies illustrate why one should be skeptical of Nicolosi, the Reintegrative Therapy Association, ATCSI, and the Journal of Human Sexuality.00:00 Introduction: Dr. Joseph Nicolosi Jr.'s Influence01:17 Two Studies Nicolosi Uses to Defend Conversion Therapy03:00 The 2021 Study: Only 22 of 75 Participants Remained05:48 The Study Recruited Men Seeking the Advertised Outcome07:07 Less Than One-Point Change on a Five-Point Scale07:32 The 2024 Study: Co-Author Was an Economics Professor09:47 The Study Shows Promise for Trauma Treatment, Not Sexual Fluidity10:15 Nicolosi Is Misrepresenting His Own Work

Chris is joined by Laura Kelly Fanucci and Jacqui Skemp to discuss the intense presence of ICE's immigration enforcement in Minnesota and how they are responding and processing it as local Catholics. They share personal experiences and feelings of guilt, anxiety, and the struggle to balance activism with everyday responsibilities. They highlight the importance of community support and the various ways individuals are responding to the crisis, from direct action to family-oriented approaches. Emphasizing a need for compassion and attention to justice, they process the emotional toll of this moment, unpacking Catholic social teaching, managing friendships across divides, and the role of faith leaders in protesting. Together, they explore the nuances of navigating personal beliefs, community engagement, and the role of faith in times of crisis, ultimately highlighting the beauty that can emerge even in the darkest moments.00:00 Introductions10:04 Navigating Guilt and Community Involvement18:29 Emotional Challenges and Parenting During Unrest25:10 The Emotional Toll of Injustice26:51 The Reality of Brutality and Accountability30:06 Personal Experiences and Generational Trauma33:58 The Role of Allyship in Activism35:48 Finding Compassion in Shared Suffering40:50 Navigating Complex Moral Landscapes43:38 The Challenge of Compassion in Faith Communities51:00 Practical Steps for Community Engagement01:00:11 Awakening to Action01:02:01 The Role of Faith in Crisis01:03:30 Community and Mutual Aid01:05:04 Disconnection from Institutional Church01:08:32 Finding Beauty Amidst Horror01:12:09 Taking Action from Beyond Minnesota

Immigration attorney Rachel Davis—self-proclaimed “Dairy Queen” and mom of a yogurt-obsessed 4-year-old—joins lawyer and gay Catholic writer Chris Damian to pull back the curtain on the hidden immigrant labor behind America’s food supply. They talk TN visas for animal breeders, how COVID border shutdowns almost broke major dairies, the chaos of the $100,000 H-1B fee, and why current immigration policy feels less about safety and more about cruelty. Rachel shares her perspective as a Jewish lawyer reading Project 2025, draws unsettling parallels to 20th-century history, and explains why targeting “grandmas and farmworkers” instead of violent criminals is bad ethics and bad economics. It’s a deep dive into immigration, economics, faith, and what it really means to show up when a system turns dehumanizing.00:00 Introduction and Catching Up04:13 Rachel's Dairy Law Specialization11:58 Impact of COVID-19 on Immigration and Agriculture18:50 Immigration Policies and Challenges28:58 The Impact of H1B Visa Changes30:52 The $100,000 Fee Panic33:38 The Broader Implications of Immigration Policies34:45 Comparisons to Historical Regimes38:54 The Human Cost of Deportations43:01 The Role of Public Perception and Misinformation48:22 The Importance of Advocacy and Action

draftMeg Hunter-Kilmer has become “the Catholic saints lady” for a reason. In this conversation, she joins Chris to talk about how the lives of the saints can anchor us in an anxious, polarized, and often unjust world—especially for immigrants, the undocumented, and those who feel like they don’t belong in the Church or in the heart of God.Meg shares stories of saints and blesseds who protested fascism, slept in migrant camps as bishops, were arrested dozens of times, or were literally undocumented immigrants killed in part for their legal status. She also highlights saints who struggled with illness, suicidal ideation, infertility, and bad personalities—reminding us that holiness doesn’t erase our rough edges.00:00 The Importance of Saints03:49 Saints as Models in Challenging Times05:00 Examples of Saints in Oppression06:28 Saints and Privilege16:45 Saints in Unjust Imprisonment23:44 Jewish Solidarity and Empowerment24:09 Catholic Communities and Empowerment31:05 Diverse Personalities of Saints32:56 Community and Ingroup Dynamics36:00 Responding to Suffering with Action41:02 Connecting with Saints

The ex-gay movement never really went away—it just rebranded. From “reparative therapy” to “healing ministries,” Catholic leaders continue to promote the same discredited ideas about homosexuality under new names. In this episode, I dig into how these theories shape Catholic seminaries, influence pastoral care, and fuel ongoing harm in the Church. We’ll explore why conversion therapy bans don’t go far enough, how ex-gay narratives slip under the radar, and what LGBTQ+ Catholics need to watch for when seeking support. I discuss the work of Courage International, Joseph Nicolsoi, Elizabeth Moberly, Timothy Lock, NARTH, Richard Cohen, and more!00:00 The Ex-Gay Movement's Influence on Catholicism00:43 Understanding Conversion Therapy vs. Reparative Therapy02:16 The Ex-Gay Narrative and Its Psychological Underpinnings05:34 Controversial Practices and Legal Challenges08:16 Rebranding and Subtle Continuation of Harmful Theories12:30 A Healthier Approach for LGBTQ+ Catholics

I’ve spent years digging into the Catholic Church’s approach to sexuality, and in this episode I take a hard look at the work of Dr. Bob Schuchts and the John Paul II Healing Center. From conferences costing up to $1,100 per week, to seminary workshops that push bizarre ex-gay theories, to gaslighting clients who challenge his methods—this story reveals how Catholic psychology has been twisted into pseudoscience. Along the way, I connect Schuchts’s work to the abuse crisis, conspiracy thinking, and the Church’s ongoing struggle with sexuality.

Danny Peterson, ordained in 2016 in Newark and now a therapist in Salt Lake City, walks through the real mechanics of ex-gay culture inside Catholic spaces: chastity “support” groups that were conversion therapy / SOCE, Journey Into Manhood weekends, minor exorcisms, and diocesan referrals to therapists using unscientific, often unethical methods. He unpacks the “double bind” (“God loves you… but change first”), how parent-blaming scripts fractured families, and why institutional loyalty can normalize incompetence. We talk about leaving ministry, rebuilding community, dating with values, living sober and ordered (8 hours of sleep, prayer, hikes, drag shows and dancing), and practicing therapy with informed consent and boundaries—supporting clients’ own ethics without coercion. If you’ve been told your only choices are secrecy or sin, Danny offers a third path: integrity, friendship, and a faith that isn’t at war with reality.00:00 Danny's Background and Journey to Priesthood02:40 Experiences with Conversion Therapy Camps05:04 Critique of Conversion Therapy Practices13:22 Personal Reflections and Moving Forward21:51 Navigating Traditional Christian Sexual Ethics23:10 The Double Bind of Conversion Therapy26:03 Embracing Queer Life and Joy29:41 Reflections on Conversion Therapy's Impact32:47 Professional Boundaries and Therapy39:24 Looking Forward: Personal and Professional Growth41:27 Concluding Thoughts on Faith and Identity

The Catholic Church uses the word “sexuality” without ever clearly defining it. In this conversation, I explore four competing ways Catholics understand sexuality—from gendered complementarity to the erotic desire that fuels saints and mystics. What does it mean to live a flourishing sexual life as a celibate gay Christian? And why does the catechism’s language cause so much confusion?00:00 Defining Sexuality in Catholic Context01:15 Four Perspectives on Sexuality01:48 Gendered Understanding of Sexuality02:41 Genital Understanding of Sexuality03:13 Pathological Understanding of Sexuality03:53 Erotic Understanding of Sexuality05:13 Conclusion: Integrating Perspectives on Sexuality

Father Bryan is a Catholic priest and registered psychologist serving clergy and seminarians in Vancouver. He shares how depth psychology reshaped his ministry, why “start with behavior” backfires in sex conversations, and how evidence-based therapy, informed consent, and clear boundaries protect religious clients. We dive into same-sex attraction in formation, conversion-therapy debates, self-acceptance without shame, and what real accompaniment looks like.00:00 Father Brian's Unexpected Path to Psychology01:28 Role and Responsibilities in the Archdiocese03:14 Impact of Psychological Training on Ministry09:56 Challenges in Addressing Sexuality within the Church16:59 Approaches to Same-Sex Attraction in the Church23:38 Self-Acceptance and Support for LGBTQ Catholics28:35 Navigating Professional Ethics in Therapy31:40 Balancing Dual Identities: Priest and Therapist34:18 Therapeutic Boundaries and Client Autonomy44:52 Concerns About Unlicensed Counseling Practices48:41 Reflecting on Institutional Accountability50:59 Finding Hope and Gratitude in Challenging Work

Let's take a deep dive into the contradictions of modern Catholic sexual teaching. From Augustine’s negative views on sex to John Paul II’s Theology of the Body, Chris explains how straight Catholics are told they’ve entered a “new era” of sexual positivity while LGBTQ+ Catholics are left behind. We also unpack the harmful influence of conversion therapy on Catholic popularizers like Christopher West and Jason Evert, and why their stories and teachings continue to damage young queer Catholics today.00:00 A New Era in Catholicism and Sexuality00:16 Personal Journey: Struggles and Conversations01:29 Theology of the Body: A New Perspective?04:31 Critique of Conversion Therapy and Popular Narratives11:49 A Call for Change: LGBTQ+ Catholics' Voices

Greg shares his powerful story of how he unknowingly entered conversion therapy through a Catholic counselor who blurred the lines between prayer, therapy, and friendship. In this conversation, we unpack how “Reintegrative Therapy” works, why it’s so dangerous, and how confusing boundaries can create lasting harm. Greg also reflects on accountability, healing, and what he wishes he could tell his younger self.00:00 Opening Up About Personal Struggles02:31 Understanding Conversion Therapy05:07 Therapeutic Relationship Dynamics06:55 Exploring Reintegrative Therapy12:07 Ethical Concerns in Therapy17:38 Blurring Boundaries in Therapy24:29 Manipulative Practices in Therapy26:05 Ethical Concerns and Personal Reflections28:57 Theological Inconsistencies33:27 Realizing the Harm and Seeking Accountability39:22 Journey Towards Healing and Accountability43:10 Advice for the Younger Self

Mary Rice Hasson, Theresa Farnan, and Susan Selner-Wright are presenting themselves as “experts” on gender identity at the Supreme Court—without any training in psychology or mental health. In this episode, I break down their brief, their credentials (or lack of them), and how their arguments misrepresent research, professional standards, and even Church teaching. If this is the best the Church has to offer, it raises serious questions about honesty, competence, and care for LGBTQ+ people.00:00 Chiles v Salazar Brief02:10 Misrepresentations and Misunderstandings02:30 Diagnostic Overshadowing and Gender Identity03:59 Legal Misinterpretations09:22 Church Teachings and Gender Identity11:52 Scientific Claims and Counterarguments16:34 Detransition and Surgery Rates18:34 Conclusion

Catholics often say the Church’s teaching on homosexuality is timeless—unchanging since the beginning. But what if that’s not true? In this episode, I uncover how modern pseudoscience and the ex-gay movement shaped official Church documents, the Catechism, and the lives of countless LGBTQ+ Catholics. From Freud to Courage International, from Christopher West to Vatican councils, I trace how a pyramid scheme of pseudo-theology and therapy continues to harm queer Catholics today—and why it’s time to question the very foundation of these teachings.00:00 Christopher West and the Pseudoscience03:16 The Ex-Gay Narrative and Psychoanalysis04:33 Influential Figures in the Ex-Gay Movement11:14 The Church's Official Documents on Homosexuality13:34 The Impact of Pseudo-Freudian Theories26:50 The Pyramid Scheme of Catholic Orthodoxy32:37 Challenges and Resistance to Change38:50 Personal Reflections and Experiences40:37 A Call for Change and Hope for the Future

Licensed psychologist and Catholic author Dr. Julia Sadusky joins us to talk about real-world care for gender-questioning teens: treating co-occurring anxiety/depression first, avoiding fixed-outcome therapy, and using her “plateau” approach instead of an all-or-nothing push to medical transition. We discuss faith-congruent, trauma-informed practice, “God image vs. God concept” work for kids who wonder if God likes them, how parents can help without shame, why causal “wound” theories don’t hold up, how to vet a therapist, when to refer out, and what gives her hope for LGBTQ+ youth and the Church.00:00 Discussing Gender Identity and Faith05:34 Navigating Faith and Gender in Therapy07:58 Dr. Julia's Journey into Gender and Sexuality Work12:28 Balancing Catholic Faith and Clinical Practice16:46 Understanding Gender Transition and Therapy21:24 Parental Concerns and Gender Patience27:18 Theology of the Body and Gender Identity32:56 The Ex-Gay Narrative and Its Impact40:22 Therapy for LGBTQ+ Individuals and Religious Concerns45:36 Therapist Competence and Client Needs49:47 Addressing Spiritual Questions in Therapy57:12 Gratitude and Hope for the Future

Christopher spent a decade in conversion therapy, emptied his savings, and checked himself into inpatient treatment—only to discover real healing when he finally named the grief and came out. In this conversation we unpack the cost of silence, the day a bishop moved to fire him over a podcast, the blurred lines between “healing ministry” and therapy, and how grief and gratitude can coexist. We discuss the work of Bob Schuchts, Jake Khym, the John Paul II Healing Center, and more. It’s a candid look at harm, accountability, and what mercy actually looks like in 2025.00:00 Grief, Gratitude and Conversion Therapy04:05 Facing Discrimination and Employment Challenges08:06 The Complexity of Faith and Sexuality19:09 The Role of Therapy and Healing Retreats26:01 Conversion Therapy and Its Emotional Toll29:10 Theological Issues and Conversion Therapy31:58 Unethical Practices in Conversion Therapy35:39 Podcast Debate and Listener Reactions38:01 Ethical Concerns and Mixed Relationships46:42 Final Reflections and Call for Accountability

Catholic bishops are backing conversion therapy at the U.S. Supreme Court—even though research shows it nearly doubles suicide risk for LGBTQ+ people. This episode unpacks the clash between Catholic teaching, psychology, and the law. I dive into the bishops’ arguments, the blurred line between therapy and spiritual direction, and why defending conversion therapy is both a theological and moral scandal.00:00 Conversion Therapy and the Catholic Church00:57 Distinguishing Spiritual Direction from Psychological Counseling03:16 Critique of the Catholic Bishops' Stance04:35 Conclusion and Future Outlook