Music And We

(RECORDED ON AUGUST 21, 2026) Throughout our lives, we may meet anywhere from dozens to thousands of people, either virtually or (hopefully) in person.  Most of those we meet, it may only be for a moment.  Other times, it may develop into a friendship. jamilah met mother and son Anne and Russell Watson at a dinner, facilitated by mutual friend Anthony, who (with his sons) made a documentary highlighting the Metallica community.  jamilah and Russell immediately bonded in their own ways, and after that meeting she began texting with Anne, ultimately forming a friendship.  In the course of these few years, jamilah has gotten to witness Russell's precociousness (without the pretension) and his musical growth and journey- where currently, he's formed his own band, and is a Gibson artist.  Anne has been there watching the growth, navigating the protective role of a parent, while simultaneously letting go, in order for him to explore this life's journey on his own terms.   In their conversation, they discuss everything from feeling supported, the gift of letting go, having space to be oneself, foundations, being a creative person in the age of generative AI, trusting intuition, being a Gibson/G3 artist, and Metallica as a spiritual band, and our shared experience of Lars Ulrich entering our lives at the most emotionally crucial moments.   Thanks for listening! (The intro song is 'Mother And Child (The Ballad Of Anne And Russell)', by Teodora's Fist) If you're interested in staying aware of Russell's journey, go to https://russellwatsonguitar.com/. If you wanna send us a word (or two, or several), we're at: [email protected].    

(RECORDED ON AUGUST 13, 2026) Napalm Death is a band which was birthed in 1981; throughout the various creative and lineup shifts, there has been one constant:  their message.  She cannot remember where she specifically learned about them, but it was sometime in the 90s where jamilah 'discovered' them, connecting with their messages- thus becoming one of her favorites, to this day.   Barney Greenway (Napalm Death's vocalist since 1990) has been considered to be an major inspiration for many, including jamilah.  Anyone could utter a bunch of lyrics; however, the reason why Barney has been met with a great ton of respect is because of his sincerity, honesty, and conviction.   Because of this, she had been hoping for years to have a deeper conversation with him (beyond what she hears in the music, or possibly, interviews he's given).  Given that Barney is an incredibly busy individual, she does not take for granted that he, like anyone else who comes on the podcast, took a bit of time out of his swamped schedule to expound on several of his positions on life, politics, music, and human relationships. Being familiar with some of Barney's very public positions, jamilah anticipated there would be some ideological differences in the conversation.   Both Barney and jamilah ultimately agree on the same objective- peace; the difference is in the path in which they achieve it.   In an environment where differences in ideas and approaches are defined as negative/opposition; episodes like these are what we absolutely look forward to, whether it's discussing music, politics, or anything else.  The key is in approaching all conversations in a humanistic way.  It also helps to sharpen the muscle that is the brain.  'Echo chamber' podcasts- where everyone concurs with every single point, every single time, are boring.  They also ignore that people have varying life experiences which have led us to the points we currently are.  And where we are now isn't even static.   We knew Barney would come through, and would not disappoint.  They say the older one gets, the less they are willing to adapt to change; either that, or they become more conservative or right wing.  jamilah has had far too many experiences which counter this- the conversation with Barney being one of those. More than anything, amid these differences in ideological paths was unity on a majority of things.  After the conversation, jamilah developed an even greater respect for Barney for again, never wavering from his convictions, while simultaneously having an openness to learn and grow/change, if that contributes to the larger objective of liberation of all beings. Hopefully more conversations could be had between them in the future, whether it's on the podcast, before or after a show, or in a random place in the world- it could be about politics, noisy music, cats, cinema, humor...  or anything. They spoke on everything from honoring the spectrum of human experiences and emotions, how to not be jaded, accessibility of venues, the path to peace (of course), 'dying with dignity', rejecting heroism, toxic 'fans', and more! Thanks so much for listening! If you'd like to talk about how Napalm Death inspires you, your favorite songs/moments/etc...  or if you just wanna send a word of encouragement, we're at: [email protected]

(RECORDED ON JULY 21, 2026) From the land of what is (to jamilah) the most beautiful song on earth ('Only Shallow' by My Bloody Valentine)*, Music And We is once again connecting in an intercontinental way, as we speak with Gavin Malone, host of That Sound Podcast. Based in Ireland; having only been around for a couple of years, That Sound Podcast is a baby in the podcast game- however, they've increasingly been a recognizable face to many in the rock community in particular.  The latest episodes have focused largely on coverage of Metallica's latest leg of the tour for their M72 tour, but they discuss many other bands as well, from Thin Lizzy to Ghost...  and more. While Gavin and jamilah discuss podcast life (the beginnings, the inspirations and lessons); they also discuss doing away with hierarchies, Ireland (history, culture,  indigeneity/connecting to roots, geographical ignorance and community and structural contradictions); bassists...  and of course, Thin Lizzy and Metallica.   Thank you for listening!!! To check out That Sound Podcast, go to https://www.youtube.com/@ThatSoundPodcast, or any of your podcast platforms! If you'd like to send us a word, we're at: [email protected] *It is not her favorite song in the whole world, but for her, it is the most beautiful.

(RECORDED ON MAY 15, 2026) (Because we're not sure if people actually read these episode descriptions, we'll put it here at the top- jamilah checked after recording the episode, and was very glad to be stood corrected- because Stevie Wonder actually IS listed in the NYT piece!  Everything else stands.) This quick episode was off the dome, as jamilah did not expect to record an episode; however, she felt inspired to, after shedding some tears while watching a Stevie Wonder tribute- where the great Greg Phillinganes (who has a long history with Stevie) put his foot in it, because there were some surprising deep cuts sprinkled in.   This led her to think about the (as stated) infamous New York Times piece, where they, after some apparent deliberation, they chose a series of songwriters, producing a ton of obvious controversy.  Many were upset that Tom Waits and Randy Newman, for example, were missing.  A list of 30 people is going to limit who gets chosen, and if you asked 10 people who should be on this list, you are going to get 10 different answers. There is a plan to do a more in depth episode, but for now, here's some late night/very early morning ramblings.   A melodica makes an appearance at the beginning, and Watch-o! the cat knocking something over makes an appearance at the end.   Thanks for listening! Who are some of your favorite writers?  Let us know at: [email protected]

(RECORDED ON APRIL 22, 2026) Forming in Philadelphia- a place with an already solid wealth of organizing, activism and funk/soul music; Dark Thoughts aren't the (Philly punk OGs) Dead Milkmen, but for over a decade, they've been continuing (and contributing to) the longstanding punk community.   jamilah had a chance to chat with guitarist and vocalist Jim Shomo, a massive Ramones fan.  As a matter of fact, while Dark Thoughts takes obvious inspiration from the band in many ways, Jim does acknowledge that he has yet to master Joey's distinct vocals...  despite people stating similarities.  Jim also makes the distinction between being a 'Ramones band' and a 'Ramonescore' band.   They also discuss opening up for Oi! legends Cock Sparrer, the cultural impact of Philadelphia, the dearth of punk houses, using the platform you have to bring awareness to political issues, tattooing, ensuring safe spaces in the punk scene, and more. Music: Dark Thoughts: Identity Crisis (Dark Thoughts, Stupid Bag, 2016) Waxahatchee: Right Back To It (feat. MJ Lenderman) (Tigers Blood, ANTI-, 2024) Dark Thoughts: With You (At Work, Stupid Bag (US)/Drunken Sailor (UK/EU), 2018) Dark Thoughts:  So Alone (Highway To The End, Stupid Bag/Drunken Sailor, 2025) Thanks for listening! To find Dark Thoughts' music, go to: https://dark-thoughts.bandcamp.com/  To give us a holler, go to: [email protected]

jamilah had a few more thoughts following the last upload, that she hadn't previously discussed with jesse.   And oh...  she forgot to mention the bad pancake makeup job they did on Colman Domingo, who played Joe Jackson.  You saw where they attempted to conceal the nose prosthetic as well, because there was wrinkling in that area, whenever he made certain facial movements.  Hollywood fronts so much money for these projects, and low(er)-budget horror films tend to do a far superior job.  A couple of other issues jamilah had with this movie was how MJ's relationship to food was depicted.  The movie showed Michael as participating in bonding through food- while she doesn't doubt this was a thing that existed, the man also divulged at points in his life that he developed an eating disorder, as that was one of the few means of control he had over his life.  Also, they continually attempted to hone in on the fact that he was 'no longer a child, but an adult'; however, whenever faced with any particular challenges, he ran behind other adults to resolve them.  Michael Jackson was as much of a caricature as anyone else in this movie.   These people should also never be forgiven for the CGI animals, and AI audience shots.   

(RECORDED ON APRIL 23 & 24, 2026) Back in November of last year, jesse and jamilah did an episode discussing the (for many, including jesse) long awaited Michael Jackson biopic, released by Lionsgate/Universal.  jamilah already knew, going in that the movie was going to be horrible, based on the projects MJ's estate put out after his passing.  While it is true that most movies released about him historically have not been that great (even while he was still here), the things released posthumously have been particularly worse.  Everything in this current era that has been watched by jamilah is because of jesse, and once again, he roped her into another one of these moments, so they could discuss it on an episode.   While you already most likely know what jamilah thinks, what does jesse think?  In this episode, they expound more about the bad (and possibly good) about this movie- which is looking like it's set up to have a sequel.  AND YES, THERE ARE SPOILERS. Let us know what you thought about this movie: [email protected]

(RECORDED ON JANUARY 22, 2026/OFF THE DOME INTRO ON JANUARY 24, 2026) This episode has been a long time coming- it has been planned for a while, but we just got to it. Having been involved in the punk and hardcore scenes in NYC in the 90s, jamilah ended up moving to the west coast- absolutely missing Flora Lucini, who moved there around that time.  Over 20 years later the two met (by way of mutual sibling Ryan Bland (Bushmon/Home 33/ACHE)), and instantly became chosen family to each other.  Coming up in the 90s and 2000s hardcore scene; Flora is an incredibly inspiring figure in the community.  Known as a 'scene mama', she books and coordinates shows, as well as being a community activist.  Well known in the hardcore scene (obviously), her multi-instrumentalism has led her to varying genres, such as jazz and Tropicália.   jamilah was absolutely excited to sit back and take in the wonderfulness that is Flora: She definitely does not mince words; however, there is no malice behind the directness, and that is definitely a breath of fresh air. We hope you enjoy this conversation between a couple of siblings, who came up in different generations of the hardcore (and punk) scene. They discussed everything from: Forgiveness and redemption Turnstile (and Knocked Loose)'s success Gatekeeping v. preservation The 'othering' of non-European hardcore bands Music and art being a reflection of society/culture The centering of whiteness in art and music (and society) The inability/refusal of people in the scene to detect and challenge microagressions The importance of/connection to the bass The next generation of hardcore kids and their impact on the future And of course... Bad Brains Songs on the episode (all by MAAFA): Libation Blindspot Welfare For The Culture  Not Your Exotic Thanks so much for listening! We'd love to hear from you!  Contact us at: [email protected]    

(RECORDED ON JANUARY 5, 2026) There's always the saying that when things get egregiously bad, there's going to be a plentiful return of protest music.  There's a bit of a disagreement over here in the world of Music And We, as there's never been a shortage of political or protest music, regardless of period in time.  Material conditions haven't necessarily been altered for the better for countless people, so art and music will always reflect sociopolitical inequities.   The more interesting question wouldn't be regarding whether or not people are going to produce more political music and art; it's whether or not people will create more abrasive, confrontational and incendiary music and art, as a response or challenge to said inequities.   Will there be a return to a counterculture movement?

(RECORDED ON DECEMBER 17, 2025) There's so much music out there in the world, and no one could possibly listen to, or know everything that's been released.  However, jesse and jamilah did find some gems among the vastness, in 2025.  Their choices couldn't be more disparate...  except for one album.   (jamilah neglected to mention Imperial Triumphant's album, Goldstar, among her favorites of this year; they did get a quick mention toward the end of the episode though.  She also mispronounced Terre Thaemlitz' Soulnessless.  Also, after the episode was recorded, she remembered some shows that were not listed- so it was DEFINITELY more than 50 shows!!!!  The key to being able to see a lot of shows is to see the ones that don't cost much money.) Let us know what your favorite albums have been this year!  Let us know at: [email protected]

(RECORDED ON NOVEMBER 9, 2025) Apparently, 'Michael', the Michael Jackson biopic, has been in the works for a few years.  Out of the two of them, jesse tends to follow the posthumous happenings of the MJ (and Prince) world, when jamilah doesn't at all.  jesse (of course) is excited to see this movie upon its release, when jamilah is still working to forget the travesties of This Is It, that Thriller documentary, and all other posthumous projects.  While she consistently hopes for an Errol Morris-type deep dive documentary, she knows that the reality is always going to always lean towards the vein of an Antoine Fuqua blockbuster.   While she also understands (as usual) that her views and predictions could absolutely incorrect; her initial reactions are definitely in the minority, as the majority are giving this trailer glowing reviews, and are excited to see the movie in the Spring.   What are your thoughts on the trailer?  Let us know!  Contact us at: [email protected]

(RECORDED ON OCTOBER 9 & 10, 2025) jamilah traveled to California to attend the Mill Valley Film Festival premiere of 'Metallica Saved My Life' (among other things). The intent always was to capture the voices of people who attended the premiere; however, what she experienced was far more than she could have asked for.   Present friends and community were reunited, new friends were made...  and she had the opportunity to converse with the film's director, Jonas Åkerlund.  She also sat down with her biggest musical inspiration (and a person who's music had a hand in saving her life), Lars Ulrich.  These are experiences she will forever cherish, and will never take for granted.   Has Metallica's music saved your life?  Let us know!  Contact us at: [email protected]

(RECORDED ON AUGUST 30, 2025) Longtime friends Abby and jamilah have been into DEVO for many, many years; however, jamilah has never seen them live.  Given that they are still touring, they decided to do a 'Flowers' episode on the Spuds born in Akron, Ohio.   jamilah wanted to do an episode as well, particularly due to the misconceptions the band always receives.  While Abby and jamilah's song interpretations may not always be correct (and while some of the things produced have not been side eye inducing), one thing they do know is that the collective was founded as a response to right wing culture and ideologies; so seeing their songs interpreted as 'incel anthems', or seeing statements such as, "This music is what you end up with when you don't allow girls in the band," have always been a curious thing. While not all-inclusive (obviously), they name some of their favorite songs in the catalog (with some renditions on the melodica, tambourine and cardboard box by jamilah).  While DEVO has been often imitated but never duplicated (except infamously by 'Weird' Al Yankovic (another person who should get a 'Flowers' episode)); there's a reason why their music is celebrated by many.  Interestingly, while they are celebrated (and while they had a brief moment of pop stardom), they are still relatively 'small' in comparison to some of their peers.  Because of this, they were able to maintain artistic freedom (in their various artistic projects/endeavors- which we didn't even get into...  That would be a 10 hour episode). RIP Robert Mothersbaugh Sr. (aka General Boy), Bob (2) Casale and Alan Myers. Thanks for listening!!! Abby's website is https://www.abbydenson.com/ If you want to say hello (or to tell us your favorite DEVO songs), you can contact us at: [email protected]

(RECORDED ON AUGUST 8, 2025) Anyone who's a regular/semi-regular listener to the podcast most likely is aware that (drummer) Lars Ulrich is jamilah's biggest musical inspiration; and that his band, Metallica, is her second favorite (after Earth, Wind & Fire).  Despite discussing the band quite a bit, there has never been a 'Flowers' episode. With this episode- airing just as the band's self-titled album (aka 'The Black Album' celebrated its 34th year of existence), jamilah shares the mic with friend (and fellow Metallica appreciator) Dave Ferraro, where they discuss how they came to love the band, meaningful moments from the music (and at shows), and of course, the concept of the 'Metallica family'.   In addition, there's plenty of laughter, a bunch of hot takes (which actually may not be hot takes), 'St. Anger' theories and conspiracies, some crew love, and much more! Song Highlights: -Of Wolf And Man (Mexico City, 27 September 2024) -Vuelo de la Cacahuate/A.D.O. (El Tri cover) (Mexico City, 27 September 2024) -Frayed Ends Of Sanity (And Justice For All, 1988) -Blackened (And Justice For All, 1988) -Dyers Eve (And Justice For All, 1988) -Battery (Master Of Puppets, 1986) -Battery (Detroit, Michigan, 3 November 1991) -Leper Messiah (Castle Donington/Download Festival (UK), 10 June 2023) -Fade To Black (Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, 14 August 2022) -Fade To Black (40th Anniversary) (San Francisco, California, 19 December 2021) -Dirty Window (40th Anniversary) (San Francisco, California, 19 December 2021) -Dirty Window (Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, 14 August 2022) -FIXXXER (40th Anniversary) (San Francisco, California, 17 December 2021) -Battery (East Rutherford, New Jersey, 4 August 2023) -Inamorata (72 Seasons, 2023) -Sleepwalk My Life Away (Castle Donington/Download Festival (UK), 8 June 2023) -Shadows Follow (East Rutherford, New Jersey, 4 August 2023) -Too Far Gone (East Rutherford, New Jersey, 6 August 2023) -Metal Militia (Zuzula Celebration) (Hollywood, Florida, 6 November 2022) -Phantom Lord (Zuzula Celebration) (Hollywood, Florida, 6 November 2022) -Room Of Mirrors (72 Seasons, 2023) -Creeping Death (Castle Donington/Download Festival (UK), 8 June 2023) -Orion (Through The Never, 2013) Thank you for listening!!! If you want to tell us about your favorite Metallica songs or moments, you can contact us at: [email protected]

(RECORDED ON JULY 27, 2025) Music And We has been going for some time now (with a bit of a hiatus); however, the podcast was started later in the game, unlike the 2012 premiere of Witchpolice Radio.  Hosted by Sam Thompson, Witchpolice Radio focuses on the local scene in Manitoba, a province in central Canada.   Sam and jamilah met among the circle of Propagandhi appreciators; over some time they began having conversations about various other types of music- surprising her with his vast knowledge of music coming out of Jamaica specifically.   She isn't one who 'invites someone to the cookout' just because they're respectful of  someone's music.  However, she is one to invite someone on a podcast to discuss it.  Sam and jamilah discuss the distinctions between appreciation and appropriation, apologies and corrective action, the life of being a music nerd, love for Bad Brains and Fishbone, and more! To listen to Witchpolice radio, go to:  https://witchpolice.com/ If you have any questions or comments for us, contact: [email protected]  

(RECORDED ON JULY 26, 2025) When jamilah was floating about in the middle of the Punk Rock Bowling festival (in Las Vegas), she ended up meeting Jonas Woolverton in a small tent selling skateboards and horror-themed items.  They talked briefly about punk; he handed her a flyer, regarding a play he was directing- Four Chords And A Gun, based on the story of Phil Spector's time with (the) Ramones, and their recording of the album End Of The Century.  While she greatly enjoyed the play, she ended up finding out about his other jaunts into theater, physical comedy/clowning, and the circus.  Starring and acting in The MacEnfro Show; he's also performed for many years with Cirque du Soleil for 'Zumanity', as well as 'RAIN', with Cirque Eloize.  Jonas and jamilah discuss Ramones (of course), the various types of clowning that exist, and more! Thanks for listening! To learn more about Jonas, go to: https://jonaswoolverton.com/ To get a hold of us, contact: [email protected]

(RECORDED ON APRIL 20, 2025) On April 19, 2025 jamilah and jesse took a road trip to Syracuse, NY to see Metallica- it was jesse's 6th time seeing them, and jamilah's 19th.  At one-something in the morning they decided to discuss their immediate feelings- particularly jesse, who saw them for the first time on the floor.  Were there any differences for him (besides the obvious proximity to the stage) in his experiences? If you went to the Syracuse show- or if you've gone to any of the shows on the M72 tour, you can tell us your experiences by contacting: [email protected]

(RECORDED ON APRIL 15, 2025) As our last episode involved a conversation with someone who is not only in one of our favorite bands, but also someone who is in arguably one of the most important bands of our time; we feel really happy to have that episode be followed up with someone who not only understands what it's like to create a podcast, but whose podcast is themed around the very band featured in our previous episode! Greg Soden, co-host of Unscripted Moments: A Podcast About Propagandhi, was kind enough to take the little time he had out of his day to speak with us.  There were so many things we wanted to ask and talk about; in our brief time together though, we discussed the inspiration for making a podcast on such a band as Propagandhi.  We also spoke about his experience as an educator, and what he does to bring positivity and move beyond limitations in that experience.  And of course, we discuss the couple of songs that have been released (up to this point) off of Propagandhi's upcoming album. Thanks for listening!  To listen to Unscripted Moments, go to: https://unscriptedmoments.libsyn.com/ If you have any questions and comments for us, you can contact: [email protected]

(RECORDED ON MARCH 20, 2025) The creation of a podcast (or radio show) is an interesting process; one of the most rewarding parts can sometimes be the most heartbreaking, as you take a lot of chances in hoping the person you've contacted will reach back out to you.  Many times they do, and there are times they don't.  But you keep on pushing. And pushing on is what Propagandi has done since the birth of their existence.  Facing rejection, isolation, threats and more over the years, they never waned on their mission to be a musical representation of the 'Animal-Friendly, Anti-Fascist, Gay/Trans/Non-Binary/Intersex-Positive, and Pro-Feminist' voice.  jamilah has had a relationship with Propagandhi's music for over 20 years (beginning with Less Talk, More Rock), and they have become one of her favorite bands of all time. So admittedly, sitting down and having a conversation with guitarist, vocalist and co-songwriter Chris Hannah was a long-time dream, fulfilled.   Chris and jamilah discuss a range of subjects, from growing up as punk (and metal) kids in the 80s and 90s, aging bodies and self-care, musical inspirations, subject matter caveats, ideological maturation, current Canada/US relations, parenthood, and more. Songs featured: -Fuck The Border (Today's Empires, Tomorrow's Ashes, Fat Wreck Chords, 2001) -Oka Everywhere (Where Quantity Is Job #1 (Compilation), G7 Welcoming Committee, 1998) -When All Your Fears Collide (Victory Lap, Epitaph, 2017) -Haillie Sallasse, Up Your Ass (How To Clean Everything, Fat Wreck Chords, 1993) -Comply/Resist (Victory Lap, Epitaph, 2017) -A People's History Of The World (Less Talk, More Rock; Fat Wreck Chords, 1996) -Apparently, I'm A "P.C. Fascist" (Because I Care About Both Human And Non-Human Animals) (Less Talk, More Rock; Fat Wreck Chords, 1996) -Superbowl Patriot XXXVI (Enter The Mendicant) (Potemkin City Limits; G7 Welcoming Committee/Fat Wreck Chords, 1996) -Dear Coach's Corner (Supporting Caste, G7 Welcoming Committee/Smallman Records, 2009) -At Peace (from upcoming album 'At Peace'; Epitaph, 2025) -Rio De San Atlanta, Manitoba (Less Talk, More Rock; Fat Wreck Chords, 1996) -Cognitive Suicide (Failed States, Epitaph, 2012) -Letters To A Young Anus (Victory Lap, Epitaph, 2017) -Note To Self (Failed States, Epitaph, 2012) Thanks for listening! For more information and to keep up with Propagandhi, go to:  https://propagandhi.com/ To get a hold of us, you can reach us here: [email protected]

(RECORDED ON FEBRUARY 28, 2025) Black Metal as a subgenre tends to get a pretty bad rap- not only because of its sound, but also because some of the most well-known proponents have unsavory, toxic and hateful alliances.   On jamilah's search for some counters to this stereotype, she found the Youtube channel of a certain Brutus Bathory, a leftist Black Metal fan who gave an anticapitalist, critical lens to the music he loves.  Slightly sarcastically described as a channel which discusses "Metal, politics, and other uncontroversial topics," Brutus addresses the contradictions of patriarchy, consumerism, and the various forms of reactionary sentiments and behaviors which permeate the scene.  His commentaries are a measured love letter of sorts; with well-researched, and pretty accessible responses.  While he displays adoration for a music that has gotten him through life, he pleads for its static nature to cease. In the conversation, jamilah and Brutus discuss some of the content of the commentaries, as well as addressing some of our own personal (at some points major) contradictions regarding the music we love.  For questions, comments, etc.  you can reach us here: [email protected]

(RECORDED ON JANUARY 20, 2025) Well...  We don't know what to say.  jamilah is usually the one asking the questions, talking to others about the things which inspire them.  Because she recently came out with a record (called One Day I Slipped And Fell On A Thought), jesse had an idea- and to her surprise, that idea was to flip the mic around and ask jamilah some questions.  She discusses the process for making the record, as well as some of the methods, events and people which inspired her.  Hopefully, the episode is interesting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! One Day I Slipped And Fell On A Thought is here: https://teodorasfist.bandcamp.com/album/one-day-i-slipped-and-fell-on-a-thought For questions, comments, etc.  you can reach us here: [email protected]

(RECORDED ON NOVEMBER 21, 2024)  As long as injustice exists, there is always a need for artists to respond.  On this episode we speak with Savannah Imani Wade, a member of the Baltimore chapter of Artists Against Apartheid, a collective who's objective is to "commit to using our platforms to challenge at every turn the massive misinformation campaigns waged by those who have a vested interest in the destruction of the Palestinian land and people without fear of repercussions. We dedicate ourselves to standing in solidarity with the Palestinian people and to use our artistic and cultural practices as tools of liberation in the struggle for sovereignty, dignity, and self-determination." Savannah and jamilah talk about the importance of art collectives in telling the stories of globally oppressed peoples, the importance of not parting with family members due to ideological or political differences, the healing power of music,  the gift of sharing grief, and more!  Thank you for listening! For more information, go to https://againstapartheid.art/ For questions, comments, etc.  you can reach us here: [email protected]      

(RECORDED ON OCTOBER 17, 2024) In the 11 years of doing radio (and now podcasting), jamilah has been experiencing a process of time where increasingly, you have to have some level of notoriety or fame for someone to take the time out to be on an episode of your podcast- or, you have to go through scores of agents and handlers (and sometimes, you don't get a response at all).  We understand that there's an overwhelming amount of media out there currently, and people must be selective.  It's an incredibly humbling experience to be able to converse with someone who is sharing their limited time with us. The Internationale are no exception. Quintessentially NYC, Delila Paz and Edgey Pires create music that, from its inception has been decisively anti-racist, antifascist, anti-imperialist and anti-capitalist; they utilize their craft to counter the intersections of classism, racism and misogyny.  Their inspirations range far and wide, from Woodie Guthrie and Buffy Sainte-Marie, to Nina Simone and John Coltrane.  So of course...  we had to talk to them. And we are certainly glad we did. Similar to our last episode, this conversation occurred prior to the announcement of Trump's second term presidency, but so much still applies.  Edgey, Delila (both who are incredibly funny) and jamilah discuss everything from moments of fearlessness, the political self-censoring of artists, vanguard/small cadre vs. mass organizing, the limitations of rock lyricism, the moments that inspired a questioning of the system, the misinterpretation of 'revolution',  the experience of being on a major label in transition, appreciation vs. appropriation, where 'protest music' goes wrong under capitalism, (older) rock musicians and fans hoarding the culture for themselves, and most importantly, finding humanity amidst the struggle. Songs featured on this episode: -5th World (Soul On Fire, 2019) -1984 (Running For A Dream, 2023) -Freak Revolution (Soul On Fire, 2019) -Bourgeois Blues (New York I Do Mind Dying, 2013) -Life, Liberty, And The Pursuit Of Indian Blood (We Will Reign, 2014) -Try Me (Soul On Fire, 2019) -Workers Of The World- Unite! (Live) (This Bootleg Kills...  Vol 1, 2016) Thank you for listening!  For more information on The last Internationale, go to: https://www.tlinyc.com/ Also, For questions, comments, etc.  you can reach us here: [email protected]

(RECORDED ON OCTOBER 2, 2024)  Interestingly, this is the first episode up since the announcement of Donald Trump's election for a presidential second term; however, despite a bit of time passing in between the recording of this conversation and current events, what was said still applies, since we are living under the same system, regardless of administration.  There may be an argument (or several) that this is not the case.  jamilah and Mic Crenshaw discuss why it is. Mic Crenshaw is a Portland, Oregon-based artist whose primary vehicle is hip hop, though he has a solid history in the punk tradition.  Much of his life has been spent physically fighting oppressive forces (such as racists) in the streets; in more recent times he utilizes music as a means of education and unity and awareness building, through organizations such as the Afrikan Hip Hop Caravan.  The topics discussed are (of course) the role of a radical artist, the stupor and deception of U.S. politics, It Did Happen Here (an audio/visual series with Erin Yanke), the positive effects of travel (and the class inequities which prevent it), and more. Mic Crenshaw’s forthcoming LP, produced by Jonny Cool, entitled True Original (Black Skinhead II) will be out in 2025. This episode features the forthcoming singles: -'Retribution' (aka 'Dark Moon') (featuring Toni Hill), produced by Jonny Cool -'Ready' (featuring Toni Hill and Kiloriti Maasai), produced by DJ Trox -'Tiger', produced by Jonny Cool A video for Ready, shot in Tanzania and Portland Oregon will be released in early December, 2024. He has also organized a band for writing of original material and  live shows called The True Originals. For more information, go to Mic's socials, as well as https://www.miccrenshaw.com/ Thank you for listening!  For questions, comments, etc.  you can reach us here: [email protected]

In this episode, jamilah pays tribute to three influential figures in the music world- genre-defying saxophonist David Sanborn; outspoken vocalist Gary Floyd, and one of the most uncompromising beings to ever get behind a sound board, Steve Albini.  So many are leaving us, but they have left behind the gifts of their music.   Thank you for listening.  For questions, comments, etc.  you can reach us here: [email protected]

(RECORDED ON MARCH 15, 2024) While there are connections based on interest of a particular piece of music or band; many of us live lives outside of that singular interest.  jamilah and Anthony Broome met via the Metal Up Your Podcast community, specifically through the Discord network.  Because life stories are so vast and interesting, jamilah invited him to come on and speak about his experience/history as a sports writer, a forum moderator (Discord being one of those places), and of course, a ginormous fan of Metallica.  How do these worlds merge?  What are some of the challenges that come up?  What are some of the paths to inspiration (and peace among the noise)? If you're interested in joining the Discord, let us know and we'll get a link to you!  If you have any questions, comments, etc.  you can reach us here: Thanks for listening!

(RECORDED ON FEBRUARY 11, 2024) This episode developed from a few situations; jamilah wanted to do an episode on Fugazi (one of her favoritest bands of all time), but could not  necessarily find someone to do that episode with.  As Fugazi has not been a band since the early 2000s, doing a 'Flowers' episode would not have been feasible; however, members of Fugazi have embarked on several projects since then, so hopefully someone will want to do a 'Fugazi: Past And Present' episode with her.    In terms of the episode you're listening to now; in a conversation that involved Bad Religion (another one of her all-time favorite bands), Chris Warne mentioned that even though he loved Fugazi, he would be more comfortable with doing an episode on BR- and thus, another 'Flowers' episode was born.  As a matter of fact, Chris and jamilah (along with mutual friend Rob) have started a tri-continental band, borne from a love of Bad religion.  In this episode you will hear music from Chris' (primary) band, Cowboy Dan; you will also hear several covers, where all the instruments and vocals were performed by jamilah.  We also discuss the various ways this band has positively impacted/inspired us- including the results of a very arduous task of compiling eight specific songs. We hope you find something positive in your listening experience- we certainly had fun doing this! You can find Cowboy Dan's music here: https://cowboydanmusic.bandcamp.com/music We'd love to hear from you!  For questions, comments, etc.  you can reach us here: [email protected]

(RECORDED ON FEBRUARY 7, 2024) We are happy to bring in the first episode of the year of our humble little podcast, a conversation with Clint Wells!  You may be familiar with him as the host of Metal Up Your Podcast;  he's also a professional touring and studio musician, a songwriter and producer...  and all-around nice guy.  In this episode, Clint and jamilah pontificate (in humorous, thoughtful and empathetic ways) on the importance of family and community, what makes a good songwriter, the importance of dialog with those who may hold different views, producing Morgan Wade's upcoming album and of course, Metallica.  Thank you for listening!  To hear Metal Up Your Podcast, one way of listening is here: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/metal-up-your-podcast-all-things-metallica/id1187775077 We'd love to hear from you!  For questions, comments, etc.  you can reach us here: [email protected]

(RECORDED DECEMBER 4, 2023) Whoo boy...  jesse owes jamilah big time for this one.  The best way to describe this is to just listen to the episode!!!  In it, we discuss once again, a documentary that doesn't exactly do justice to the musical legacy of Michael Jackson.  We attempt to make sense of why this has (again) occurred, we ask why some of the people in the documentary are there, and we go in a bit on John Landis (because honestly, people who love film should).  We'd love to hear from you!  For questions, comments, etc.  you can reach us here: [email protected]

(RECORDED ON DECEMBER 2, 2023) After many months of technical mishaps and life experiences, jesse and jamilah have returned, discussing some (but not all) of their favorite albums released this year; they also discussed the culture of mass information (in relation to Shawn 'Puffy' Combs and other predatory figures), our own contradictions, as well as other cultural events that have since occurred since this posting!     We'd love to hear from you!  For questions, comments, etc.  you can reach us here: [email protected]

(RECORDED ON AUGUST 7, 2023) Yes....  The unbelievable happened.  jamilah met her second favorite band of all time, and her greatest musical inspiration.  She is still in immense shock about it.  This episode was recorded the day after Metallica did their two sets (with no repeats) at MetLife Stadium, so please forgive her relative incoherence, and many tears (hopefully jesse does as well!!!).  We also discuss the passing of Sinéad O’Connor (and experiences with mental health struggles), constantly getting names wrong as a possible personality trait, sexuality and objectification, the SAG-AFTRA strikes, Ice Cube and KRS ONE going full counterrevolutionary, as well as the 'throwing phones' situation. It's an action packed show!!! We'd love to hear from you!  For questions, comments, etc.  you can reach us here: [email protected] In addition, if you struggling are in need of a voice to talk to, please call 988 (for the u.s. national number), or go to https://988lifeline.org/current-events/the-lifeline-and-988/

(RECORDED ON MAY 29, 2023) After a ton of mishaps and mental health episodes, we finally have this episode up!!!  jesse and jamilah felt inspired to discuss this after the physical transition of Tina Turner, given a few anti-African stances she took throughout her life.  While these things were known by some prior to her passing, many opined that addressing her contradictions was inappropriate because, well...  she's Tina Turner!  We must remember that she was human, just like any of us who do not share her fame or financial status.  No one, regardless of celebrity status or amount of income they make should ever be immune from critique, whether they are physically on this earth, or not.  In this episode we also discuss William 'Smokey' Robinson and his latest album, Gasms.  We discuss portions of his memoir, the ageism surrounding reactions to the album, and more. (Note:  The audio got kind of messed up between the 51-54 minute mark; we hope that doesn't take too much away from the content!  Thanks!) For questions, comments, etc.  you can reach us here: [email protected]

(RECORDED ON MAY 23, 2023) This is a multi-tiered episode of sorts, if you will.  The Mulkilteo Fairies were one of jamilah's most favoritest hardcore/punk bands in the early to mid 1990s, as she was a young punk kid trying to figure life out.  She wanted to always meet the people behind that band- and eventually met Josh (while he was in the band Behead The Prophet NLSL) and Quitty (while hanging out in Olympia, WA), respectably- so starting out, this is both an (a. 'Meet Your Heroes', as well as a (b. 'Giving Flowers' episode, combined.  Of course, the people we looked up to as young people are humans, and sometimes those humans are around the same age as us, and sometimes we have similar friend groups (which is not hard if you're in the punk scene, especially in a smaller city on the map).  So of course this is also a 'reunion' episode, as jamilah and Josh have reconvened after a long, long period.  Josh has been very, very busy over the years, bringing awareness to the connections between punk and veganism via his role as a traveling chef over the years doing dinner parties.  A few published cookbooks of his are 'So Raw It's Downright Filthy', 'In Search Of The Lost Taste', 'Hey Ho Let's Dough!' and 'This Ain't no Picnic:  Your Punk Rock Vegan Cookbook'.  Residents in Billings, Montana have also seen him selling baked goods and herbs at the local farmer's market.  Josh is a person with such a well-rounded experience (while not ignoring the punk roots that shape him), and we hope you have a positive experience listening to this conversation!  (ed. note:  We want to apologize for whatever tech/mic issues occurring in this episode.  We hope it doesn't get in the way of the content.  We did our best to work through them- so even the tech spirit is punk as well!) To get updates from Josh, go to his website:  https://joshuaploeg.blogspot.com/ For questions, comments, etc.  you can reach us here: [email protected]

(RECORDED ON MAY 13, 2023) This is an interesting episode, as tables have somewhat turned...  jamilah is usually the fanboi (of various things) out of the two hosts; however, given that he was massively beloved by her in the past, it was discovered that jesse is far more of one when it comes to Stevie Wonder.  There are attempts to explore this emerging discovery.  jesse and jamilah discuss Stevie Wonder's discography, the songs and albums they connect to, what the best songs are to introduce others to his music... as well as (of course) the contradictions.  Even with all of these things, they feel his contributions to the arts and music are definitely deserving of flowers.  For questions, comments, your favorite Stevie songs, etc.  you can reach us here: [email protected]

(RECORDED ON APRIL 30, 2023) One of the objectives of this podcast is to engage with the ways we all connect with and to music.  Of course, that would be boring if it were just jesse and jamilah every episode, so we always love when others get to share their experiences.  jamilah was very glad to have been able to share some time with fellow podcaster and creator (and lover of St. Anger) Old Head, whom she first became familiar with through his YouTube videos.  Steven/Old Head is also a radio host (which jamilah was for 11 years); another thing she learned through this conversation was the similarity in which they both play guitar (which he is much better at).  Throughout the episode they also discuss the erosion of cultural musical delineations, social awareness and responsibility of artists, and the healing power of music.  Old Head Podcast: https://oldheadpodcast.podbean.com/ Old Head's YouTube channel:  https://www.youtube.com/@OldHead Supporting Actor:  https://open.spotify.com/artist/0NwEPvnhvzF7OesykYdQBM Radio show: https://live.onamp.com/oldhead.tx   For questions, comments, etc.  you can reach us here: [email protected]

(RECORDED ON APRIL 23, 2023) jamilah has been fairly open on this podcast about her experience as an amputee, and the ways music is now experienced due to it.  We want to take time in various episodes to explore the various experiences had, under the spectrum of disabilities that exist. On this episode we have Nick, who was born with cerebral palsy.  jamilah and Nick met via a community of listeners and appreciators of Metal Up Your Podcast (MUYP), a... podcast (!!!) developed out of a love for Metallica.  There's a bit of conversation about MUYP; as well as discussions on how our disabilities shape our experiences, our love for the band beginning with the letter M, as well as what can be done in order for metal to be more welcoming.  And of course, Nick discusses his profession as a lawyer (and the way metal inspires him- hence the name, MetalLawyer). For more information or queries for Nick, go to https://www.nrollerlaw.com/ For questions, comments, etc.  you can reach us here: [email protected]      

(RECORDED ON APRIL 17, 2023) 72 Seasons must be a special album, because jesse stayed up past his bedtime to discuss it!  This is his first experience with a new Metallica album release cycle, so jamilah was extremely excited to hear his perspective.  Needless to say, she was very pleasantly surprised.  As they go into detail about perspectives and what significance the album and individual songs hold,  the two longtime friends also emotionally exposed themselves (to each other, and perhaps the world) in ways they hadn't before.  Again, this must be a special album.  (Also ...Hardwired To Self Destruct is #6 on the albums list. jamilah sadly left it out.  BOOOOOOO to her.) Thanks so much for listening! For questions, comments, etc.  you can reach us here: [email protected] In addition, if you struggling are in need of a voice to talk to, please call 988 (for the u.s. national number), or go to https://988lifeline.org/current-events/the-lifeline-and-988/

(RECORDED ON APRIL 8, 2023) We aren't getting any younger, and neither are some of the artists we love.  We wanted to present a way to appreciate folks while they are still here (even if they're not currently producing music in that iteration), hence the 'Giving Flowers' series.  Our first episode is dedicated to Mudhoney, one of the last living 'anti-establishment' bands (that aren't Anarcho punk, or traditionally 'anti-establishment' in the way we're conditioned to think about what that means).  Our special guest is Abby Denson; not only is she one of the biggest Mudhoney fans we know, but she also, many moons ago started two bands with co-host jamilah (who was inspired by the band to pick up a guitar).  Similar to with E.T. Russian, jamilah became reunited with Abby (as well as the drummer in our first band, Mayumi), post accident.  Mudhoney just released a new album, Plastic Eternity, and we discuss how the band still cleverly holds disdain not only for the music industry, but capitalism, consumerism, fascism and environmental destruction due to human carelessness.  In a time where people advocate for 'politics to not be in music'; we love them for rejecting this sort of idealism, eschewing the stereotype of 'Boomers' or 'Generation X' becoming less confrontational and/or more conservative when it comes to these things.   Thanks for everyone involved in Mudhoney, past and present (Dan Peters, Matt Lukin, Steve Turner, Guy Maddison, Mark Arm, Ed Frotheringham, etc.) for keeping the spirit of rebellion alive in music. For information and updates about Abby, go to:  https://www.abbydenson.com/ For questions, comments, etc.  you can reach us here: [email protected] Thanks for listening!    

(RECORDED ON MARCH 10, 2023) Many music lovers enjoy going out to see their favorite artists live.  Some of us music lovers have disabilities, making it not as easy to navigate this world.  In conversation with jamilah (who is a below-knee amputee (BKA)) is E.T. Russian (a double amputee for much, much longer); an old friend who reunited, 20 years later.  E.T. and jamilah discuss positive (and not-so-positive) experiences with consent, awareness and acknowledgement; there's also a discussion about the structural improvements made over the years in regards to venues, and the spaces for improvement.  Thanks for listening!  For questions, comments, etc.  you can reach us here: [email protected]    

(RECORDED ON FEBRUARY 27, 2023)  This episode is finally up!  A lot of things have happened since then (in relation to some of the things we discussed here), but the primary subject (sadly in some ways) is perhaps timeless.  jesse and jamilah discuss the formation of what (a couple of days later after this recording) became 'If Darkness Had A Son' (to be released on Metallica's 12th album, 72 Seasons).  Also discussed was paris Jackson's interview with Steve-O.  The main subject of this episode was the culture of stanning; the etymology of it as well as the difference between stanning and regular 'ol fandom.  Are you a stan of something/someone?  Let us know! For questions, comments, etc.  you can reach us here: [email protected]

(RECORDED JANUARY 29, 2023) Music continues to simultaneously fascinate and confound us.  jamilah is (positively) surprised at a few of jesse's favorite selections; There is also a discussion about an issue not addressed in mainstream discussions of music- colorism.  People see these things as myths, but there are real-world examples (and real-world harm). For questions, comments, etc.  you can reach us here: [email protected] We also have a Discord page!  https://discord.gg/Ke3XyU8W

(RECORDED JANUARY 22, 2023) jesse and jamilah are back- and we no longer have to record episodes in different states, which of course makes things much easier.  We spend our first (non remote) episode exploring the first two singles from the upcoming Metallica album, '72 Seasons'; jamilah also attempts to make sense of jesse's love of Sananda Maitreya, as jesse critiques Maitreya's various contradictions.  We also discuss the subject of wearing t-shirts of bands you don't know, as well as an upcoming Michael Jackson documentary.  For questions, comments, etc.  you can reach us here: [email protected] If you struggling are in need of a voice to talk to, please call 988 (for the national number), or go to https://988lifeline.org/current-events/the-lifeline-and-988/

(RECORDED DECEMBER 21, 2021) Jesse and jamilah are very, very jetlagged in this episode, but we wanted to get our thoughts out about MTF (Metallica Turns Forty) before everything left our brains.  After never having seen the band live (and just getting into them), Jesse can now say he has seen them twice, while jamilah has officially now seen them three times- the first being December 3, 1991.  Jesse got to capture a bit of the essence of the 'Metallica Family' as well.  There was so much happening that weekend, we couldn't possibly cover it all.  And being in the moment at the Chase Center, we couldn't possibly catch every detail.  There might even be things we get mixed up or wrong here.  We hope to watch any replays, so as to catch whatever nuances missed.  Either way, it's all love here.  For a deeper explanation about the songs, albums and members, please listen to our previous episode.  For questions, comments, etc.  you can reach us here:  https://twitter.com/musicandwejj and here: [email protected]

(RECORDED NOVEMBER 26, 2021) It has been a very eventful couple of years since Jesse and jamilah were here!  There was a particular event which affected the whole world (and continues to), Jesse wrote a book, and jamilah experienced a life-altering accident.  For this episode though, we are switching it up!  While we do talk a bit about Prince (and a tiny bit about MJ), our focus for this episode is on...  METALLICA!  They are getting some love over here.  Preparing for the band's 40th anniversary events happening in December, Jesse and jamilah share how they came to know the band, any significant impact and connections made, album rankings, and what they hope to see at MTF.   For a more extensive conversation on some of what we've spoken about, here is a piece jamilah wrote: https://theonewomanapollo.wordpress.com/2021/08/30/a-eulogy-for-a-lost-limb-or-what-metallica-has-taught-me-about-death/ For information on Jesse's book:  https://gesturebuttontherapy.com/2021/08/04/paradise-clarity/ For questions, comments, etc.  you can reach us here:  https://twitter.com/musicandwejj and here: [email protected]

(RECORDED SEPTEMBER 22, 2019) The authors of confusion have always been here.  No longer 'hidden in plain site,' they are increasingly coming out of the shadows.  Many figures posed as 'woke' are being hired to mislead the masses.  There has even been a conversation about the term 'woke' on British television, co-facilitated by none other than Piers Morgan.   They say words evolve and constantly lose their original meanings, while intent still holds weight in the original.  We must cease to hold on to 'wokeness' and learn to open our eyes, our brains and our consciousness to stay awake, for the authors of confusion still hide among the masses.  To slightly take from Mr. Nelson, a huge part of us must die, in order to live.  To take directly from Mr. Jackson, we have to stop existing and start living.  These authors of confusion are counting on our fear of death, so that we may continue to hate true freedom, and only depend on an illusion of it.   Physical death (under a system of exploitation) brings world tours, holograms, package deals and fighting families.  Ego death (under the same system) brings isolation and discouragement.  'Death' usually implies a transition of some sort; under a system of exploitation there is no consciousness, no karmic awareness.  With no acknowledgement of karmic debt, it's easier to exploit one (financially or otherwise) who has physically transitioned.  "Some say man ain't happy truly, until a man truly dies..."  How one determines the meaning of death is how much one will define happiness.   Sign O' The Times. Jesse and jamilah discuss how the 'authors of confusion' have come out to play out in various scenarios.  Can we have a conversation about true liberation within a context of a system which does not acknowledge our humanity?  And can we do it under the framework of 'cultural ambassadors' speaking for us?   Is there a way to honor cultural luminaries or beloved popular culture figures without stealing or not including their humanity (this also includes painting them in a 'perfect' light)? Is there a way to honor a survivor's story (even if we do not agree with said story)?  Does the image of a beloved figure always coincide with their actual actions?  Do our perceptions of a beloved figure blind us from questioning the potentiality of them committing violence (even if only done once)?  How do we question or hold one accountable without attacking their gender (or sex), mental condition or spiritual practice?   For questions, comments, etc.  you can reach us here:  https://twitter.com/musicandwejj and here: [email protected]  

(RECORDED SEPTEMBER 15, 2019)  This is a shorter episode; jamilah goes solo (Don't worry- Jesse hasn't gone anywhere, and he was okay with this episode going up)!!!   jamilah wanted to take a little time out to focus on some news stories you may not have known.  If you regularly listen to our podcast, you know we cover non-music/political news as well. jamilah also speaks a bit about Leaving Neverland winning an Emmy award.  If you listen regularly, we're sure you'll know where that conversation goes.  Though a solo episode, as usual, we hope the information presented was useful to you.  Thanks for listening! Ahjamu's blog:  http://www.abetterworld.me/ For questions, comments, etc.  you can reach us here:  https://twitter.com/musicandwejj and here: [email protected]    

(RECORDED SEPTEMBER 9, 2019)  Obviously an extension of our last episode, Jesse and jamilah continue to look into the notion of the more recent wave of so-called 'edgy' (or even 'edgelord') comedy, and why it's being viewed as edgy...  When it's ultimately a reflection of already socially acceptable mores.  The majority of successful comedians are heterosexual, cisgender and/or white, and comedy is going to primarily reflect these cross-sections of experiences.  There HAVE been comedians who hold privilege (be it physical, gender, ethnic or otherwise) and were able to successfully do comedy regarding marginalized groups...  While the marginalized groups were NOT at the expense of the joke.  This is possible to do, because it lends to pointing out societal absurdities or injustices.  Is 'edgy' comedy now a means of gaining a 'seat at the table'- especially if it is done by someone who historically (and in the present tense) has been marginalized?  Is it a way to 'prove' you have now been accepted by dominant society?  Is it a more nuanced, more socially accepted form of 'oppression olympics', while blaming others for doing the same?  ('I as a Black man, am still out here getting shot in the streets; and you want ME to recognize TRANS women being murdered??!!  You want me to acknowledge you as nonbinary??!!  Stop it with this gay agenda!!!') We also discuss a little more on 'cancel culture'; on Missy Elliot and Mary J. Blige (fortunately) not being appropriated; on Rapsody, women in hip hop and misogynoir; as well as the Jackson/DeBarge dynamic.  Thanks for listening! Okayplayer piece on Rapsody: https://www.okayplayer.com/music/rapsody-eve-real-hip-hop-review.html For questions, comments, etc.  you can reach us here:  https://twitter.com/musicandwejj and here: [email protected]    

(RECORDED 1 SEPTEMBER 2019) Here's another overview of a seemingly 'controversial' visual work- 'Sticks and Stones'.  While most people have defended Chapelle's work wholesale (because you know...  It's comedy), there have been very few pieces (either critical or in defense) pointing to the nuances and consequences of 'controversial' comedy.  Most responses have been reactionary.  Jesse and jamilah dissect the full special (and its two epilogues- NOTE:  MASSIVE SPOILERS).  Is it possible for comedy to be funny and not be at the expense of politically and socially marginalized groups of people?  Is something truly 'controversial' when it's a reflection of already socially-accepted/mainstream ideas?   In this context, is a view only valid when it's socially accepted by the majority?  In the 'marketplace of ideas' (if you will), why are those who scream about advocating for 'free speech' ready to shut down any critique of specials such as 'Sticks and Stones' with cries to 'be less sensitive', or supposed pejoratives such as 'SJW' or 'PC'?  Under a capitalistic framework, who truly has access to 'free speech'? For questions, comments, etc.  you can reach us here:  https://twitter.com/musicandwejj and here: [email protected]  

(RECORDED 25 AUGUST 2019)  WE ARE BACK Y'ALL!!!  After a variation of life experiences that shifted much in our combined worlds, Jesse and jamilah have returned...  With another setback- A RUSTY MICROPHONE SOUND.  i guess the mic missed us as well, and was just paying us back for all the months of non-use.  We apologize in advance for any bad sound, and hope this doesn't obscure the subject matter we aim to bring to you. As we are in the midst of the 'era of mass exposure' (an inevitability in the age of mass information), where exactly do our priorities lie when moving to 'cancel' someone?  What is the desired objective in canceling a public figure?  If there is no common agreement and organized effort on who should be canceled (and why), is 'cancel culture' sustainable?  If variations in 'cancel culture' have existed for centuries, why is it only being considered as viable in this day and age?  For questions, comments, etc.  you can reach us here:  https://twitter.com/musicandwejj and here: [email protected]

(RECORDED MARCH 10, 2018)  First This Is It and now Leaving Neverland...  We must note that this was recorded directly after watching the full four hours, plus the Winfrey interview...  While we gather people would be aware of this, we must reiterate that the majority of the audio here is based on views/opinions.  Just like a majority of the people who have something to say, neither one of us personally knew Michael Jackson.  Anything we say is going to be based on personal perspectives, as well as our experiences in relation to him.  You as a listener (ESPECIALLY if you personally knew the man) have every right to disagree.  It must also be noted that, because the response was directly after watching the film, there were many points of discovery missed.  There were many things jamilah wrote in her notes while watching it, and still forgot to discuss in this episode (major glaring example:  when Safechuck's mother stated that she was willing to "share" her son with Michael Jackson.  Even if you agree that these men were abused by MJ, that had to have sent some flags up).  From our first episode we stated that we would cover controversial matters; this may be one of the most controversial, given that the very existence of Leaving Neverland is leading people to blindly demonize or lionize Michael Jackson.  This episode does neither, though it may be looked at as such...  Depending on your views. jamilah processed the film for weeks after watching it, and felt an alienating sadness.  Jesse/Jester, while not having watched it, felt the same.  While the film confirmed many critiques had about Michael Jackson (spoken about in several of out episodes- only amplified here), it does not take away our love and appreciation for him.  In a society which supports/encourages reactionary behavior (on both ends) and idol worship, any nuanced conversation regarding Michael Jackson gets placed in the background.  As of this writing, there are still major developments regarding the inconsistencies of the information disseminated in Leaving Neverland, thanks to director Dan Reed's consistent admission that he did no research on Michael Jackson (which he actually stated just as openly during the Winfrey interview); there are also public dated records which contradict the narratives of Safechuck and Robson.  Leaving Neverland ultimately was an Electronic Press Kit for Wade Robson, who (especially at this point) is seen as unreliable in the industry he's employed in. He needs a job. He is more or less 'joined at the hip' to Michael Jackson; the man defined Robson's whole life.  Given that Michael Jackson is no longer physically here, he can no longer rely on that train to ride smoothly for him.  It's as if Wade Robson never had to work for anything, because MJ provided everything for him.  Now...  he actually has to, and judging from his own writings, he had a nervous breakdown because the work was too hard for him.  Given his requests to direct MJ-related projects were rejected, the end of his lifeline became evident.  Thus, we have Leaving Neverland:  The Wade Robson Story, with James Safechuck more or less as a guest star. Narcissists (of which we think Wade Robson fits the description to a t) don't particularly like to work at anything.  Not only was Leaving Neverland an examination of Michael Jackson's emotional and psychological state (in jamilah's view); it was also the examination of a narcissist.  THAT is where the documentary lies. As with all of our episodes, please listen with an open mind. For questions, comments, etc.  you can reach us here:  https://twitter.com/musicandwejj and here: [email protected]