PODCAST · news
Not Even Mad
by Peach Fish Projects
Approaching the news from distinctly different points on the political spectrum, host Mike Pesca, and a rotating group of panelists, attempt to change each other's minds on the most important stories of the day. Often unsuccessfully. Between the non-stop election cycle and torrents of cancellations (real or imagined), there is a ton to argue about. But don't worry. In the end, they're NOT EVEN MAD.
Episodes
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EP 45 | Not Even Mad: Elizabeth Bruening & Ben Kawaller
The final episode of Not Even Mad, Mike Pesca, Elizabeth Bruenig, and Ben Kawaller debate the rising power of democratic socialism after several progressive upset victories. The panel then shifts to JD Vance's new faith memoir, Communion, analyzing the theological contradictions of Vance's...
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EP 44 | Anthony Weiner & Matt Welch
Former congressman Anthony Weiner and Reason editor-at-large Matt Welch join the panel for another edition of "Not Even Mad." The trio debates the massive market valuation of Elon Musk's SpaceX, analyzing how concentrated wealth reshapes global geopolitics, media structures, and domestic policy...
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EP 43 | Bradley Tusk & Charles Fain Lehman
Mike Pesca is joined by venture capitalist Bradley Tusk and Manhattan Institute senior fellow Charles Fain Lehman for a panel debate on political judgment and modern vice. The trio dives into the results of the Maine Democratic primary, questioning whether progressive candidate Graham Plattner…
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EP 42 | Isaac Saul & Jamie Kirchick
Today is Not Even Mad. Tangle founder Isaac Saul and journalist Jamie Kirchick discuss the creation of the Department of Justice's $1.776 billion anti-weaponization settlement fund, the legislative fallout from the Trump primary revenge tour, and the unpredictable new swing votes in the Senate....
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EP 41 | Russ Muirhead & Ben Dreyfuss
Today on the Gist, the US intelligence assessment of the Iran blockade, and why the current administration lacks the attention span for a prolonged overseas conflict. Then, Dartmouth professor Russ Muirhead and Calm Down author Ben Dreyfuss join the panel for another round of Not Even Mad. The…
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EP 40 | Sarada Peri & Sarah Isgur
Today on the Gist, Mike is joined by Sarada Peri, former speechwriter for President Obama, and Sarah Isgur, senior editor at SCOTUSblog and author of Last Branch Standing, for a new installment of Not Even Mad. The trio discusses the Virginia redistricting vote, how concerning the "shadow docket"...
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EP 39 | John Ganz & Nick Gillespie
Today on a Not Even Mad, Mike is joined by political writer John Ganz and Reason's Nick Gillespie to debate whether the ceasefire with Iran is a strategic victory for the regime or a result of Donald Trump's bellicose rhetoric. The trio analyzes the New York Times reporting on JD Vance's backseat...
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EP 38 | Yascha Mounk & Colin Cole
Today on a Not Even Mad edition of The Gist, Mike is joined by political scientist Yascha Mounk (The Good Fight) and Colin Cole, director of policy outreach and communications at More Equitable Democracy and host of The Future of Our Former Democracy, to fiercely debate whether adopting...
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EP 37 | Jeff Nussbaum & Dan Rothschild
Jeff Nussbaum and Dan Rothschild debate the Iran war's shaky public support, the administration's failure to make a clear case for sacrifice, and whether the mission is deterrence, regime change, or just another round of mowing the lawn. Then they turn to the Democrats who won in 2025, asking...
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EP 36 | Austin Berg & Andrew Egger
Austin Berg (Chicago Policy Center) and Andrew Egger (The Bulwark) join Mike to dissect Trump's marathon State of the Union: was it a missed opportunity to reach the median voter, or a "clip farming" masterclass? They also unpack the awkwardly timed Supreme Court tariff ruling that derailed his...
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EP 35 | Joe Nocera & Jonah Goldberg
Joe Nocera of The Free Press and Jonah Goldberg of The Dispatch parse the Epstein files fallout on both sides of the Atlantic, from Keir Starmer's London personnel shakeup to America's seemingly bottomless tolerance for shamelessness. Then they pivot to Mark Leibovich's Atlantic provocation, "The...
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EP 34 | Ruy Teixeira and Jesse Adams
Mike contemplates the hierarchy of American attention, contrasting the 50 million eyes on the AFC Championship game with the obscurity of the men leading the "Metro Surge" in Minnesota. Then, Ruy Teixeira (The Liberal Patriot) and Jesse Adams (The Ivy Exile) join for Not Even Mad. The panel…
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EP 33 | Michael A. Cohen & Charles Fain Lehman
Michael A. Cohen, author of the Truth and Consequences newsletter, and Charles Fain Lehman, Fellow at the Manhattan Institute, debate the capture of Nicolas Maduro and whether Marco Rubio is positioning himself as the "Governor General of Latin America." The panel analyzes Tim Walz's exit from…
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EP 32 | Anthony Weiner & John Ketcham
Anthony Weiner and John Ketcham break down a Congress being flayed by its own fringes, where the "crazies" sometimes deliver the sharpest institutional critiques. They then assess Pete Hegseth and the possible release video of a lethal Caribbean boat strike, the challenges reshaping New York...
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EP 31 | Russ Muirhead & Nick Gillespie
Mike Pesca welcomes back Nick Gillespie (Reason Magazine) and first-time guest Russ Muirhead (Dartmouth professor and New Hampshire State Rep.) for a spirited debate that is—we swear—not even mad. Today, we look at the half-full autocratic glass: Does the dismissal of the Comey and James...
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EP 30 | Charles Lehman & Brad Carson
Brad Carson (Americans for Responsible Innovation) and Charles Lehman (Manhattan Institute / City Journal) dig into the shutdown endgame, Schumer's calculus, 2026 vibes, and why data centers might be a sleeper issue. They argue affordability vs. "afford to dream," culture vs. policy, and whether...
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EP 29 | Steve Hayes & Damon Linker
Steve Hayes and Damon Linker debate whether Trump's demolition of the White House East Wing is another norm-busting outrage or just a gaudy renovation. They argue over visuals versus substance in anti-Trump outrage, Trump's manipulation of public opinion, and whether Congress's abdication of…
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EP 28 | Jonah Goldberg and Zee Cohen-Sanchez
Hamas hostages, Trump and autocracy, and the strangely quiet shutdown — we tackle all three. Why Trump's blunt style played in the Middle East, whether "competitive authoritarianism" really fits his second-term instincts and enablers, and who's taking the fall for Obamacare-premium brinkmanship....
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EP 27 | Ben Wizner and Ilya Shapiro
Free speech under heat: the ACLU's Ben Wizner and the Manhattan Institute's Ilya Shapiro square off (and sometimes align) on the "ethos" of the First Amendment—from the Ball State firing over Charlie Kirk comments to cancel culture, government jawboning, and campus heckler's vetoes. We dig into…
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EP 26 | Michael A. Cohen and Jamie Kirchick
Michael A. Cohen and Jamie Kirchick discuss the Charlie Kirk assassination and the immediate retreat to priors — who's weaponizing grief, what counts as incitement, and whether "fascistic" vs. "authoritarian" language clarifies or inflames. Plus, the TikTok law end-run and why process crimes…
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EP 25 | Galen Druke and Josh Barro
Mike Pesca welcomes Galen Druke and Josh Barro for a sharp yet civil debate on Trump's immigration strategy, crime, and the charge of creeping autocracy. They weigh whether cruelty brings Trump political advantage, how Democrats should frame their response, and what "autocracy makes you poor"...
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EP 24 | Rikki Schlott and Isaac Saul
New York Post columnist Rikki Schlott and Tangle founder Isaac Saul join Mike to discuss policing Washington, D.C.—who's in charge, who gets blamed, and why federal takeover is more problem multiplier than solution. Then: scalpel or a chainsaw on the syllabus for higher ed. Plus, using the…
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EP 23 | Zee Cohen-Sanchez and Jesse Adams
Unf**k America Tour founder Z Cohen-Sanchez and Washington Examiner contributor Jesse Adams join for a tour through Trump's waning immigration support, the public broadcasting defunding that will hurt the next generation of Jesse Adamses, and why even Epstein truthers may be losing the thread.…
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EP 22 | Carine Hajjar and Jeffrey Maurer
Boston Globe columnist Carine Hajjar and five-time Emmy-winning comedy writer and proprietor of the I Might Be Wrong Substack, Jeff Maurer, join to discuss the flood of ICE agents and President Trump's growing suspicion that Putin isn't on the up-and-up. And as part of the political pundit...
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EP 21 | Allison Schraeger and Matt Yglesias
Economist Allison Schraeger and Slow Boring's Matt Yglesias join Mike to discuss the unrest in Los Angeles — and how to protest without giving Donald Trump a win. Then, the trio surveys the NYC mayoral mess — or, if not a mess, whatever government-run grocery stores are. Plus, the Big Beautiful...
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EP 20 | Michael A. Cohen & Eli Lake
Eli Lake and Michael A. Cohen take stock of the Biden health debate—diagnosis, exaggeration, and whether it's actually affected his presidency. Michael pushes back on what he calls the "decline industrial complex," while Eli says its denial to think Biden was up to the job. Then they turn to…
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EP 19 | Austin Berg & Eric Zorn
Austin Berg and Eric Zorn are Not Even Mad as we discuss mayoral overcrowding and Illinois Governor J.B. Pritzker, the supposed new MAGA slayer. Plus: a few thoughts on our new American spiritual leader—not the pope, but the Surgeon General. Produced by Corey Wara Email us at...
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EP 18 | Bryan Green and Carine Hajjar
Boston Globe columnist Carine Hajjar and The Commercial Break's Bryan Green debate whether Joe Rogan's platforming of antisemitic conspiracies signals a deeper rot—or just the cost of open conversation. Plus: should Harvard be defunded? And will Kilmar Abrego Garcia stay in a Salvadoran prison?…
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EP 17 | Sarah Isgur and Sarada Peri
In this "Not Even Mad" episode, Sarah Isgur of The Dispatch and former Obama speech writer Sarada Peri dig into "massive cuts under DOGE, Cory Booker's latest stemwinder, recent election results, and somehow, Chester A. Arthur crashes the party. Produced by Corey Wara Email us at...
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EP 16 | Anthony Weiner and Nick Gillespie
Former Congressman (and current NYC Council candidate) Anthony Weiner and Reason Editor-at-Large Nick Gillespie square off over whether the national debt is an true crisis, if Chuck Schumer made the best of a bad hand, and whether government can—or should—ever shrink. Plus, in Goat Grinders, we...
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EP 15 | Michael A. Cohen & Liz Wolfe - Tariffs and Doge's Dodgy Dogma
On this episode of Not Even Mad, Michael A. Cohen and Liz Wolfe dissect Trump's State of the Union-ish spectacle, where he barely asked for forbearance on tariffs and delivered a slew of inaccuracies. We debate whether the Democrats' paddle-waving protest theater was cringeworthy or just...
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EP 14 | Noam Dworman & Dan Savage - NYC Mayor Eric Adams & The War In Ukraine
On Not Even Mad, Noam Dworman—owner of the Comedy Cellar and host of Live from the Table—and Dan Savage—of Savage Love and Savage Lovecast—join to debate the non-prosecution of NYC Mayor Eric Adams, and the potential for negotiating an end to the war in Ukraine. Plus, we dive into "goat grinders"...
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EP 13 | Katie Herzog & Jonah Goldberg - Trump's Overreach & Democrats' Lack of Reach
Katie Herzog, co-host of Blocked and Reported, and Jonah Goldberg, editor-in-chief of The Dispatch, discuss if Donald Trump's attempts to blame DEI for a tragic military plane crash and Elon Musk's unplugging of USAID will wind up hurting the Trumpian agenda. Also discussed, the Democrats'...
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EP 12 | Michael A. Cohen & Matt Welch - Trump's First Four Days
Mike is joined by Michael A. Cohen of the Truth and Consequences Substack and MSNBC, along with Matt Welch, Editor-at-Large of Reason magazine, for another installment of Not Even Mad. The trio discusses Trump's inauguration, executive actions, refugee policy, DEI, and the eventful first few days...
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EP 11 | Hiatus Over! The Pardon Of Hunter Biden
We reconstitute Not Even Mad with panelists Liz Wolfe (Reason and the Just Asking Questions podcast) and Michael A. Cohen (MSNBC columnist and author of the Truth and Consequences newsletter) to discuss and debate the pardon of Hunter Biden and all the many, many explanations for the Democrats…
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EP 10 | Hiatus? They Didn't Even Get To Know Us
On the final episode of Not Even Mad (well, at least for now), hosts Mike Pesca, David French, and Lara Bazelon discuss the idea the show was founded on, and then Mike signs off. Produced by Joel Patterson Theme by Max Kerman Content design by Big Yellow Taxi Michelle Pesca is COO of Peach Fish...
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EP 09 | Puppy Play Purloiner, Jan 6 Criminal Referrals, Republican Deadliness
Today on Not Even Mad, hosts Mike Pesca, Jamie Kirchick, and Dan Savage discuss the January 6th committee's criminal referrals, two new studies that correlate Republican policies and politicians with higher mortality, and debate the case of Samuel Brinton the self-proclaimed first openly...
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EP 08 | Senator Sinema's Democratic Party Defection, Merchant of Death for Brittney Griner swap, and Twitter Moderation: Futility vs. Utility
EP 08 Senator Sinema's Democratic Party Defection, Merchant of Death for Brittney Griner swap, and Twitter Moderation: Futility vs. UtilityToday on Not Even Mad, hosts Mike Pesca, Jamie Kirchick, and Sarada Peri discuss Arizona Senator Krysten Sinema's switch to Independent, the prisoner swap…
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EP 07 | Oath Keeper Conviction, Christian Web Designer disinclinations, and Laptop non-revelations
Today on Not Even Mad, hosts Mike Pesca, David French, and Lara Bazelon discuss the speech and discrimination implications of 303 Creative LLC v. Elenis; the not-terribly-difficult task of getting a seditious conspiracy conviction, and ask if Matt Taibbi could wring any more recriminations over...
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EP 06 | Mass Shooting Motivations, Biden 2024, and Cancel Court: James Webb Space Telescope
Today on Not Even Mad, hosts Mike Pesca, Virginia Heffernan, and Jamie Kirchick discuss narratives around mass shootings, the likelihood of Joe Biden's 2024 bid, and the man with a space telescope named after him goes to Cancel Court. Let us know what you think about the podcast, and tell us what...
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EP 05 | SBF's Woke-Washing, Red Card For Qatar, and Cancel Court: Leana Wen
Today on Not Even Mad, hosts Mike Pesca, Virginia Heffernan, and Jamie Kirchick ponder the idea that woke Democrats may have enabled SBF's fraud crypto exchange, analyze the decision to participate in Qatar's World Cup, and then don the robes of the Cancel Court to debate the cancellation of…
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EP 04 | Trump 2024, Campaigning Against Wokeness, and White Lotus Politics
Today on Not Even Mad, hosts Mike Pesca, Virginia Heffernan, and Jamie Kirchick discuss Donald Trump announcing his run for President again, whether the 2022 election results will be seen as a death knell to CRT and wokeness as an election issue, and the gender politics in this season of White...
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EP 03 | Mid-Term ClusterTrump, Kyrie Irving Goes To Cancel Court
Today on Not Even Mad, hosts Mike Pesca, Virginia Heffernan, and Jamie Kirchick search for the lessons of Tuesday's midterms and marvel at the poor performance of Donald Trump's hand-picked candidates and what their showings say about his hold on the Republican Party. Then they put the Brooklyn...
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EP 02 | Twitter Takeover, Fear Of Crime, and Cancel Court
Today on Not Even Mad, hosts Mike Pesca, Virginia Heffernan, and Jamie Kirchick discuss Twitter's future under the command of Elon Musk and the politics of crime statistics, then they issue a ruling on whether former New York Times Op-Ed page editor James Bennet was canceled or not. Subscribe to...
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EP 01 | Herschel Walker, Queer Labeling, and Republican Racism
Today, on the launch episode of Not Even Mad, hosts Mike Pesca, Virginia Heffernan, and Jamie Kirchick discuss the candidacies of Kari Lake and Herschel Walker, ponder the label "queer," and ask if present day Republicanism is inextricably racist. Subscribe to Not Even Mad on Apple, or wherever…
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Not Even Mad Trailer
Not Even Mad is a weekly 1-hour podcast dedicated to joyful disagreement. The 3 hosts: Mike Pesca, Virginia Heffernan, and Jamie Kirchick address issues from different political perspectives, but they wear their ideologies loosely and are just as likely to disagree with established doctrine as…
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ABOUT THIS SHOW
Approaching the news from distinctly different points on the political spectrum, host Mike Pesca, and a rotating group of panelists, attempt to change each other's minds on the most important stories of the day. Often unsuccessfully. Between the non-stop election cycle and torrents of cancellations (real or imagined), there is a ton to argue about. But don't worry. In the end, they're NOT EVEN MAD.
HOSTED BY
Peach Fish Projects
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Frequently Asked Questions
How many episodes does Not Even Mad have?
Not Even Mad currently has 46 episodes available on PodParley. New episodes are automatically indexed when they're published to the podcast feed.
What is Not Even Mad about?
Approaching the news from distinctly different points on the political spectrum, host Mike Pesca, and a rotating group of panelists, attempt to change each other's minds on the most important stories of the day. Often unsuccessfully. Between the non-stop election cycle and torrents of cancellations...
How often does Not Even Mad release new episodes?
Not Even Mad has 46 episodes. Check the episode list to see recent publication dates and frequency.
Where can I listen to Not Even Mad?
You can listen to Not Even Mad on PodParley by clicking any episode. We provide an embedded audio player for direct listening, and you can also subscribe via your preferred podcast app using the RSS feed.
Who hosts Not Even Mad?
Not Even Mad is created and hosted by Peach Fish Projects.
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