Recruiter Stories

Episode 33, featuring David Gialanella; interview by Jordan Abshire.  David, Editor-in-Chief of The American Lawyer, breaks down ALM's latest lateral report, explaining that today's market reflects an intensification—not a fundamental shift—of longstanding BigLaw dynamics, driven by client demand for scale and full-service platforms. He discusses the rise of a "post-loyalty" mindset, where multiple lateral moves are normalized and candidates increasingly prioritize platform strength over pure compensation to maximize book-building potential. We also explore how lateral movement is self-reinforcing, with market "inertia" fueled by peer awareness and firm competition—particularly among Am Law 50 firms, whose scale and capital advantages continue to drive consolidation. Finally, David frames lateral hiring as a capital allocation decision, with firms navigating compensation flexibility, liquidity, and integration risk—all against the backdrop of emerging AI-driven changes that may reshape the market in the years ahead.

Episode 32, featuring Stephanie Chen Banjo; interview by Jordan Abshire.  Stephanie previews her upcoming NALSC Conference breakout session, Navigating Candidate Roadblocks, where she will explore the hidden psychological and practical factors that influence lawyers' career-move decisions. Drawing from her work as an executive and career coach in professional services, Stephanie explains how many attorneys follow a "conveyor belt" career progression until they reach a point where the path forward becomes less defined, forcing them to reconsider what success truly means. She discusses the role confidence plays at every stage of a legal career, the importance of helping candidates articulate what they are optimizing for, and how recruiters can listen more deeply to distinguish between curiosity, hesitation, and genuine readiness for change.  We look forward to hearing from Stephanie in New Orleans, where she will offer practical coaching techniques recruiters can use to identify motivation, risk tolerance, and decision ownership, helping them determine when to advance, nurture, or pause candidate conversations

Episode 31, featuring Chris De Santis; interview by Jordan Abshire.  Chris previews his upcoming NALSC Conference session, Closing the Generational Communication Gap.  Chris explains how generational friction is less about personality and more about deeply embedded differences in upbringing, authority, communication, and expectations, with conflict most often arising between adjacent generations rather than distant ones. He discusses themes from his book, Why I Find You Irritating, including the concept of "lopsidedness"—the idea that everyone is exceptional at something but not everything—and why effective teams and leaders must intentionally leverage complementary strengths. The episode also explores how AI and shifting norms are changing recruiting, elevating the recruiter's role as a trusted advisor and validator in an increasingly skeptical, technology-mediated environment.

Episode 30, featuring Ava Diamond Dreyer and Andrew Blatter; interview by Jordan Abshire.  Ava and Andrew preview their upcoming Brain Care Basics session at the NALSC Conference in New Orleans.   Take-aways: Recruiting is neurologically demanding because recruiters are always "on" and operate in a high-stakes, low-control environment. Resulting amygdala activation and stress chemistry can distort judgment.  Strategies in New Orleans will offer healthy control over internal state for clearer perception and better engagement with clients/firms; pillars include nutritional psychology, neuroscience-based mindset, strategic movement, and restoration.

Podcast Episode 29, featuring David Lat, legal industry observer and founder of Above the Law and Original Jurisdiction; interview by Jordan Abshire.  David shares his thoughts on how Above the Law has changed the legal profession.  David also discusses the impact of OCI's accelerated timeline on lateral movement, the implications of AI, and marketing / branding advice for recruiters.   Lastly, David previews his Keynote Address at our upcoming Annual Conference in New Orleans.

Podcast Episode 28, featuring PJ Dunn, Certified Pro-Dev Coach, Behavioral Strategist; interview by Stuart Tenhoor.  Stuart and PJ cover a wide-range of topics relevant to recruiters specifically and professionals generally, including self-limiting beliefs, imposter syndrome, Clifton strength finders, networking tips, untapped potential, and the concept of having a co-pilot, i.e. someone who can see all of the dials / gauges while you fly the plane.

Podcast 27, featuring Patrick Fuller, Chief Strategist, Legal at ALM; interview by Jordan Abshire. A long-term friend of NALSC, Patrick covers a range of topics, including law firm strategy & challenges across segments, how recruiters can use data, and the importance of being unique, memorable, & irreplaceable.  Patrick injects his trademark humor along the way and closes with a preview of his current book project, inspired by a virtual NALSC session during the pandemic.

Podcast 26, featuring Well-Being, Stress Resiliency, & Peak Performance Consultant Jarrett Green; interview by Jordan Abshire.  Jarrett will be presenting the Keynote at our upcoming Symposium in Denver on "Thriving through the Chaos: Science-Based Tools to Emotionally and Cognitively Thrive and Maximize Your Productivity." In this episode, Jarrett covers his journey from Skadden associate to lawyer wellness.  Key takeaways: 1) Protect the first 5 mins and last 30 mins of your day by putting away cell phone; your brain needs time to warm-up and wind-down.  2) We have to face that limiting beliefs that prevent us from doing the thing that will actually make us perform better and be happier.  3) Wellness programs in law school are effective; paraphrasing Frederick Douglass: "It is easier to build strong lawyers than to repair broken ones."

Podcast 25, featuring Personal Branding and LinkedIn Expert, Kait LeDonne; interview by Jordan Abshire.  Kait will be presenting at our upcoming Symposium in Denver on "Building a Magnetic Personal Brand to Elevate Legal Recruiting Success". In this episode, we cover the importance of narrative and story-telling, even to a skeptical, logic-oriented audience of lawyers; "facts tell and stories sell."  Other wisdom includes: 1) authenticity does not equal oversharing.  2) It takes 60 impressions for your story / brand to resonate with a digital audience; when you're getting bored telling it, they are only just tuning in. 3) Branding online is building intimacy at scale. It's creating this perception where people feel like they know you before they know you, and they feel comfortable with you.

Podcast 24, featuring Eva Wisnik; interview by Jordan Abshire.  Career and interview expert Eva Wisnik previews her upcoming panel at the Fall Symposium "Best Practices for Interviewing and Acquiring Lateral Talent."  Eva shares a number of interviewing gems like: 1) Avoid familiarity and curiosity questions; instead, ask questions that give you the chance to hear their thinking. 2) Don't ask questions in the negative. Instead of asking people what their weakness is, for example, ask them how your firm could help them grow. 3) Make sure each interviewer on your panel knows what their specific objective is.  

Podcast 23, featuring Blane Prescott; interview by Jordan Abshire.  Law firm management consultant Blane Prescott discusses partner compensation, origination credits, two tiered systems, lateral partner vetting and more.   Wisdom dropped includes: the highest paid partner at a firm may well be under-paid; most partners don't demonstrate whether they're going to be successful at business development until their mid-to-late 30s; only 10 to 15% of partners are ever going to be great rainmakers.

Podcast 22, featuring Amy McCormack; interview by Jordan Abshire.   Long-time NALSC Member walks down memory lane, including the creation of NALSC's first newsletter, faxing resumes, and signing up to be one of Bullhorn's first customers.  Amy also drops a lot of recruiting wisdom, including the 3 components of our profession that a recruiter needs to embrace to be successful: educating, counseling and selling.

Podcast 21, featuring Caren Ulrich Stacy; interview by Jordan Abshire.  Diversity Lab's Caren Ulrich Stacy talks about her early career in legal recruiting and professional development.  Caren also discusses Moneyball for lawyers and insights revealed by data analysis around predictors of success for attorney hires, as well as in-group/out-group dynamics in integration.  After discussing the genesis of the OnRamp Fellowship, Caren previews what she will cover during her NALSC Presents session on April 23rd.

Podcast 20, featuring upcoming Conference Speakers Michael Elkins & Amy Mallow; interview by Jordan Abshire.  Michael is a veteran labor employment and sports law attorney who will be part of a panel addressing AI and remote working pitfalls for recruiters. In addition to previewing the panel, Michael shares a number of invaluable tips around branding and social media.  Amy has held a wide variety of positions in the legal services space and will be presenting in Miami on career paths for recruiters from someone who has done it all.  In our conversation, you will be exposed to a wide range of career options and will benefit from Amy's advice on how to assess which path may be best for you.

NALSC Recruiter Stories Podcast 19, featuring upcoming Conference Keynote Sterling Miller; interview by Jordan Abshire.

NALSC Recruiter Stories Podcast 18, featuring Joe Ankus on mental health; interview by Jordan Abshire.

NALSC Recruiter Stories Podcast 17, featuring Board Member Connie Rinaldi and NALSC HQ (Stephanie Ankus, Valerie Fontaine); interview by Jordan Abshire.

NALSC Recruiter Stories Podcast 16, featuring Jennifer Gillman and Trevon Jenifer; interview by Jordan Abshire.

NALSC Recruiter Stories Podcast 15: Featuring Fall Symposium Speakers Nikia Gray and Kendall Lowery; interview by Jordan Abshire

NALSC Recruiter Stories Podcast 14: Featuring Fall Symposium Speaker Mey Ly Ortiz and new NALSC Board Member Esther Alpert; interview by Jordan Abshire

NALSC Recruiter Stories Podcast 13: Featuring new NALSC Board Member Kevin Bacon and Fall Symposium Speaker Hilary Gerzhoy; interview by Jordan Abshire

NALSC Recruiter Stories Podcast 12: Featuring new NALSC Board Member Stuart Tenhoor; interview by Jordan Abshire

In this episode, your NALSC Podcast co-hosts Jordan Abshire and Scott Love interview Chuck Curtis, discussing key issues related to client development. 

In this episode, tune in to learn some of the ideas and talking points that two of our speakers will be sharing with us during our annual conference in San Diego at the Pendry, Feb 29 to March 2nd.   https://www.nalsc.org/2024-annual-conference/ Opening Session: "The Four Great Truths" Opening speaker: Rob Mosley - Managing Partner of Learning & Development at Next Level Exchange.  In a highly interactive session filled with practical takeaways, we will learn where 'what is smart' meets 'what is right' in our industry. Exercises and tailored worksheets will cover Awareness, Behavior, Diagnosis, and Value Proposition. Learn how to better anticipate and understand how candidates and clients think when they are making important decisions around the value we bring to them. https://www.linkedin.com/in/rob-mosley-19657ba/ Keynote Presentation with Legal Industry Influencer Alex Su, Esq. on Friday March 1st Alex Su will share anecdotes from his career in law & technology and provide specific strategies for using LinkedIn to make more placements with minimum time and effort. Using real examples from his own LinkedIn history, in addition to some customized from those in our audience, Alex will demonstrate tactical approaches to maximize your social media efforts. These include how to identify your target audience, create a profile that attracts the right people, easily connect through comments and direct messages, and create authentic and effective content that gets you in front of your intended audience to drive business results. https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexander-su/  

In this episode, we introduce our new board member Melissa Peters, and also have a conversation with one of our fall symposium presenters, Zach Warren. https://www.linkedin.com/in/melissapetersesq/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/zach-warren-19403371/   https://www.nalsc.org/2023-fall-symposium/  

In this episode, we introduce our new board member Ethel Badawi, and also have a conversation with our fall symposium keynote speaker Chris Desantis.   https://www.linkedin.com/in/ethelbadawi/ https://cpdesantis.com/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/cpdesantis/   https://www.nalsc.org/2023-fall-symposium/  

In Episode 7 of the NALSC Podcast, we get to hear from Jordan Abshire, a new NALSC board member. https://www.linkedin.com/in/jordanabshire/ We also hear from Tina Solis with Nixon Peabody, who shares her insights and suggestions on what lateral attorneys need to know from an ethics perspective when moving to another firm. https://www.linkedin.com/in/tina-solis-39538116/  

In this special episode of Recruiter Stories, you will hear from two of our Spring Conference speakers, talking about their sessions and how they will help you. First, Scott Love interviews Gina Passarella, Editor-in-Chief, Global Legal Brands, with ALM media as she discusses her presentation, "Gina Passarella Looks into her Crystal Ball: Trends on Movement, Economics, and More." And then Scott interviews Susan Lambreth, a founding Principal at LawVision and a management consultant to law firms, as she discusses talking points related to her panel discussion, "A Practice Group Leader's Perspective for Lateral Recruiting".  Travis Parham, partner with Holland & Knight, will also sit on the panel. For more information about the National Association of Legal Search Consultants, visit our website at www.nalsc.org.   https://lawvision.com/consultants/susan-raridon-lambreth/ https://www.law.com/author/profile/gina-passarella-cipriani/    

Natalie Thorsen Harris interviews NALSC President Mitch Satalof.   Scott Love interviews NALSC keynote speaker Chris Graham about his topic for our annual conference.    

In this episode, NALSC President Mitch Satalof interviews board member Patrick Moya; Board member Scott Love interviews Gary Miles to discuss his fall symposium presentation: The Data Behind the Shifting DEI Landscape

Mitch Satalof interviews Kathy Richardson.   Scott Love interviews fall symposium keynote speaker Jason Feifer.

In this Episode, NALSC president Mitch Satalof interviews Valerie Fontaine, and Raphael Franze interviews Dan Binstock on his conference panel "Sensitive Situations". 

In our inaugural episode of "Recruiter Stories", NALSC President Mitch Satalof interviews Ross Weil and Keith Fall with Walker Associates in New York City.  NALSC Board Member Scott Love interviews Pat Gillette, keynote speaker at the 2022 NALSC Conference in Scottsdale, Arizona. For more information on the National Association of Legal Search Consultants, visit us on the web at www.nalsc.org.