ServiceNow Podcasts

Shachar MEIR has spent 20 years fixing data teams and understanding why they fail. In this live episode, Shachar joins Juan and Tim to discuss the reason why they fail and what they should be doing in order to succeed.  Shachar argues that data leaders default to what they can control (cough cough technology_ and underinvest in people, process, and culture. A new CDO comes in, migrates legacy databases to a cloud data platform, and two years later you have the same problems on a better platform. We get into what's actually missing: building trust in data (which takes time and breaks fast), creating incentives so people actually use what data teams build, and spending real time in the business which is not asking what dashboards they need, but what problems they have.  Topics discussed:  Technology is not why data teams fail Why data leaders default to technology People, process and CULTURE Data trust Incentives Understanding the business Dashboard bloat Self-service analytics Dashboards aren't dead What CDOs do well and what they miss See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is the takeaway episode with Shachar Meir, who has spent 20 years fixing data teams and understanding why they fail. In this live episode, Shachar joins Juan and Tim to discuss the reason why they fail and what they should be doing in order to succeed. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Patrick McGarry, Federal CDO at ServiceNow and author of The Adaptive Organization, has spent years watching organizations accumulate data and tools but fail to convert them into decisions. Overhead grows. Outcomes don't. Hence “Intelligence Without Action Is Just Overhead.” Patrick joins Juan and Tim to walk through why federal data programs stall (the idea-to-deployment lag is long enough that the tech moves on), why incentives matter more than mandates, and why the right question should not be "how do we get AI ready" and instead should be "how do we make our organization accountable for AI."  Topics discussed:  Intelligence vs. action Ownership and outcomes Federal government's speed problem The CATALOG framework: Culture & Talent, Analytics & AI, Technology & Architecture, Alignment, Leadership & Governance, Operations & Delivery, Growth & Measurement. Governance as clarity, not bureaucracy Open standards, vendor lock-in, semantics, interoperability  Regulatory standards as a double-edged sword See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is the takeaway episode with Patrick McGarry, Federal CDO at ServiceNow and author of The Adaptive Organization, who has spent years watching organizations accumulate data and tools but fail to convert them into decisions. Overhead grows. Outcomes don't. Hence “Intelligence Without Action Is Just Overhead.” See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Most companies slapping the "data product" label on existing data assets are fooling themselves. Bethany Sehon, Enterprise Data Leader at Capital One, has been building data products and ontologies in production long before they became buzzwords. Bethany joins Juan and Tim to share lessons learned: dedicated data product managers (not side-of-desk), ontologists treated as first-class citizens, a VP-accountable governance process, and much more.  Topics discussed:  Data products as a discipline, not a label Governance process as the forcing function  Dedicated roles, not side-of-desk work  Ontology as a strategic function  Standardization is necessary but not sufficient Less is more on scope  Trust is consumer-specific AI expands what counts as a data product See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is the takeaway episode with Bethany Sehon, Enterprise Data Leader at Capital One where she share lessons learned of building data products and ontologies in production long before they became buzzwords: dedicated data product managers (not side-of-desk), ontologists treated as first-class citizens, a VP-accountable governance process, and much more. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is the start of our 7th year of doing the podcast. Juan and Tim kick off the 12th season sharing who are the upcoming guests and what's the latest on their mind about this crazy data and AI world: The new website (honestnobsdata.com) and discussed building a knowledge graph of the podcast itself  Two types of semantics: for AI context vs. for system interoperability  The vendor hype gap vs. practitioner reality AI agent proliferation and the governance surface area explosion AI cybersecurity: models escaping their sandboxes  The economics of AI: accuracy, latency, and token cost as the new CAP theorem The great convergence, "triangle of consolidation" and “postmodern data stack” OSI and Apache Nessie Work as the center of gravity Bridging the operational and analytics worlds See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Can't believe it's already been 6 years. Thank you to our amazing guests and specially our listeners. In this season finale episode, Juan and Tim rant about the honest no-bs discussions they've had in 2026 and what are the topics they are looking forward to cover in the next season. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Jason Doerr has spent years watching governance programs undermine themselves by cataloging everything without a use case, naming data stewards who have nothing to actually do, and building central teams that become blockers instead of enablers. In this episode, he walks through what pragmatic governance actually looks like: start with use cases, give stewards real work to action on, and let the central team set principles rather than police behavior. He also digs into PADU (Preferred, Acceptable, Discouraged, Unacceptable) as a practical roadmap framework, how LLMs can accelerate semantic layer creation without generating vanity metrics, and why the governance operating model is shifting toward agentic management ... whether the governance community is ready for it or not.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is the takeaway episode with Jason Doerr who has spent years watching governance programs undermine themselves. He walks through what pragmatic governance actually looks like and digs into PADU (Preferred, Acceptable, Discouraged, Unacceptable) as a practical roadmap framework. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Bob Seiner has spent decades in data governance, and in this episode he joins Juan and Tim to unpacks his new framework, Data Catalyst Cubed, which multiplies data governance by change management and data fluency. Miss any one of them, and you get zero. The problem is that leadership has never treated behavior change as part of the governance mandate, and most data programs have never connected with the change management expertise that already exists inside their organizations. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Takeaway episode with Bob Seiner where he unpacks his new framework, Data Catalyst Cubed: multiplies data governance by change management and data fluency. Miss any one of them, and you get zero. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Most organizations are treating AI governance as a compliance checkbox. Victoria Gamerman argues it's the gateway that finally forces organizations to confront the human side of AI adoption. In this episode, Victoria breaks down why the POC-to-operationalization gap is so hard to close, why people, process, and data each carry more human weight than most leaders acknowledge, and what "AI-ready data" actually means and a reminder that AI isn't a technology problem. It never was.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is the takeaway episode with Victoria Gamerman who argues that AI Governance is the gateway that finally forces organizations to confront the human side of AI adoption. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Everybody wants AI. AI adoption conversations are dominated by tools, models, and metrics. Far fewer organizations have figured out what to do with it once it's inside the building. The harder question, one that most leaders are avoiding, is what happens to the humans? Diana Wu David, Director of Futures at ServiceNow joins Juan and Tim to unpack what leaders should and should not be doing. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is the takeaway episode with Diana Wu David, Director of Futures at ServiceNow where we discuss AI adoption, the metrics and how far fewer organizations have figured out what to do with AI once it's inside the building.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Voice AI agent evaluation — why it's fundamentally harder than text, how cascade failures derail conversations invisibly, and ServiceNow's open-source framework to establish industry evaluation standards. Featuring real audio examples showing authentication failures, leaked reasoning, and latency problems. WHAT WE COVER  TARA BOGAVELLI — Research Engineer, ServiceNow Leading the open-source voice agent evaluation framework. Explains why existing benchmarks don't measure what matters and what ServiceNow is releasing to establish industry standards. KATRINA STANKIEWICZ — Staff Machine Learning Engineer, ServiceNow Cascade model architecture expert. Breaks down STT → LLM → TTS failure modes, named entity transcription challenges, and real audio example analysis. GABRIELLE GAUTHIER MELANÇON — Staff Applied Research Scientist, ServiceNow Multi-language evaluation specialist. Reveals why Large Audio Language Models lag behind, the native speaker requirement, and bot-to-bot simulation methodology.  CHAPTERS0:00 Introduction — The evaluation gap 1:11 ServiceNow's Open-Source Framework Announcement — Tara Bogavelli 2:43 Meet the Researchers 3:43 Voice-Specific Challenges — Tara Bogavelli 5:03 Cascade Architecture: STT → LLM → TTS — Katrina Stankiewicz 7:57 The Named Entity Problem — Katrina Stankiewicz 10:06 Evaluation Metrics: Accuracy vs Experience — Gabrielle Gauthier Melançon 11:23 Bot-to-Bot Testing at Scale — Gabrielle Gauthier Melançon 14:30 The LALM Gap: Why Audio AI Judges Struggle — Tara Bogavelli16:57 Real Audio Example: Flight Rebooking Gone Wrong 21:58 Breaking Down the Failures — Katrina Stankiewicz 28:30 Wrap-Up & Resources KEY INSIGHTS The Cascade Failure Problem: STT → LLM → TTS errors propagate invisibly Named Entity Transcription: The #1 enterprise blocker—names, confirmation codes, emails break authentication Accuracy vs Experience: Perfect task completion means nothing if users hang up due to poor experience LALM Gap: Large Audio Language Models lag behind text LLMs—human evaluators remain essential Latency Kills Conversations: Five-second pauses make users think the call dropped, breaking the experience even when tasks complete Open-Source Framework: ServiceNow releasing evaluation tools, metrics, and bot-to-bot simulation methodology for the industry. LEARN MORE Website: https://servicenow.github.io/eva/ GitHub: https://github.com/servicenow/eva Blog Post: https://huggingface.co/blog/ServiceNow-AI/eva Dataset: https://huggingface.co/datasets/ServiceNow-AI/eva ABOUT Hosted by Bobby Brill. ServiceNow Insights podcast explores AI research, real-world applications, and the people building the future of work. #VoiceAI #AIEvaluation #ServiceNow #MachineLearning #OpenSource #ConversationalAI #STT #TTS #LLM #VoiceAgents #AIResearch #PodcastSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.