Stirring Grey Spaces

Dr. Evan Marbury has the unique experience of being a pastor who is also a licensed mental health care professional. He brings both worlds together using verbiage we can all understand through a Biblical lens. You can find his approach to this valuable integrated model of care in his new book "Understanding Trauma and Resilience: A Guide for Counselors, Caregivers and Ministers". Regardless if you step in the field of pastor, mental health professional or a form of caregiving that lies somewhere in between, you need this resource! Evan drops a lot of names in this book as well as in this podcast: Dr. Dan AllenderDr. Curt ThompsonDr. Diane LangbergDr. Kelly Kapic and my podcast interview with him. The Reverend James White who preached one of the most incredible sermons I've ever heard titled "A Misplaced Hallelujah". Our friend Jay Finlayson and his podcast episode. Our other friend Abby Horton and her podcast episode. Evan and I had the privilege of working together on a project for Four:One Journey. We mention a certification program called NFTC I we were both a part of with The Allender Center.

It was enlightening to spend time chatting with Dr. Kelly Kapic about humility, suffering and how to be a lover of God by embracing finitude. We explore themes of psychology and theology finding their intersections in the Christian life. I felt encouraged and lighter after this conversation. I felt like many hard and heavy aspects of life are actually quite simple as I learn and grow to be like Jesus. Faithfully, imperfectly, and beautifully human. Enjoy!Resources: A lot of books come up in this episode!The Soul of Desire by Dr. Curt ThompsonFind all of Kelly's books here as well as contact information for potential speaking gigs. When Helping Hurts by Steve Corbet and Brian FikkertMake Sense of Your Story by Adam YoungKid's Say the Darnedest Things is the title of the episode with my kids. I couldn't remember what I titled it in while recording so here it is!Kelly mentions our mutual friend Dr. Scott Jones.

Katie is a 5th generation pastor's wife, a worship director, author, and a pioneer for Wives of Elders in the PCA. We use some denominational jargon which I'll attempt to clarify in the resources. Talking with Katie is like taking a deep breath during a stressful day. She has experienced grief and suffering while serving the local church. She talks about holding these roles simultaneously and how she has grown and learned along the way. ENJOY!!!ResourcesCDM: the PCA's discipleship ministry WE: cdm has a ministry for Wives of Elders, both ruling and teaching elders in the PCAFront Porch Circle: an organization which provides emotional and relational support for pastors' wives through group processing and individual sessionsBeyond the Back Row: Rediscovering the Beauty of the Local Church for Your Family  by Katie PolskiYou Are a Child of God: Devotions for Living Your Grace-Filled Identity (Gospel Truth for Women) by Katie PolskiYou're Only Human: by Kelly Kapic (cannot recommend this book enough. Actually just go to Kelly's website and order everything he's written!The Return of the Prodigal Son by Henri Nouwen: I mention this book in this episode and it is very good. But the book that was actually coming to mind was Life of the Beloved. You should read them both tbh!

We all have ways our humanness wreaks havoc in our lives every day. Most of us try to suppress it out of fear someone will see our weakness and be aware that we are imperfect. Or we ourselves will have to face how we are not God.Matthew O’Hearn carries the effects of a fallen world with every step. The unique way he moves through the world is a reminder to us all we are also weak. God’s faithful provision for Matthew tells a story of resilience and grace through people and places and faithfulness. We don’t have to hide behind our brokenness. It is through our finitude God shows us the completeness of His love. Without my limits I would forget He is God and I am human. Enjoy my friend of a friend and fellow obsessor of Covenant College, Matthew O’Hearn!Resources:Park Cities Presbyterian Church Covenant College Not mentioned in the podcast but a good resource for those interested in caring for families with disabilities.

I met Bridgett because of this podcast which seems like a milestone and a big step in podcast growth! It is rare to discuss important topics that mean a lot to us and agree with every thought or perspective. I wonder if some listeners may even feel unsettled during this episode. But if we only learn from those we completely aligned with, we will be mentally and emotional stunted Christians. I was personally spurred on toward a deeper truth by Bridgett's words. Bridgett's perspective is valuable to us all but especially to my single listeners who desire to live out their Christian values in the wild world of dating. Who both long for connection but feel handcuffed by a culture which preaches our bodies are bad and our desires are worse. Strap in listeners! Bridgett helps us ask the tough questions we're afraid to say out loud!ENJOY!Resources:Bridgett's Website with Free ResourcesThe Sex Talk You Never Got: Reclaiming the Heart of Masculine Sexuality by Sam Jolman

HERE IT IS! My thoughts about the most recent episodes. An unintentional theme seems to keep popping up in my mind as I've chatted with you all about this season. Coming soon is a my first co-host who I met through Stirring Grey Spaces! Crazy!!! Stay tuned!Resources:I often struggle to keep straight what I've heard or read from which source but it's a safe bet my most brilliant thoughts have been gathered from one of the following:Being Known PodcastThe Place We Find OurselvesThe Allender Center PodcastRedeeming HeartacheSoul of Desire, Soul of Shame, The Deepest PlaceMake Sense of Your Story

If you're looking for an honest, authentic, transparent conversation about fighting addiction look no further. One primary difficulty for those caught in sex addiction is the fear of being found out. There is tremendous stigma in Christian Culture that prohibits Jesus loving folk from finding support. Jay's openness in this conversation is a gift to all of us. Our shame keeps us bound, drowning in a sea of guilt. Bringing our shame to the light in view of others who love us loosens the trestles, drags us to solid ground and closer to the feet of Jesus in humility and freedom. “Man's nature, so to speak, is a perpetual factory of idols.”John CalvinResources:Shame Interrupted by Ed WelchSAA

Faith in the midst of unimaginable loss is proof that hope springs eternal. Katherine Teague’s words in this podcast remove every ounce of possible pretense. I felt free of having to prove anything after I spoke with her. To speak about a living, caring, gracious God after her devastating loss emboldens me to love, to be free, to walk in joy and not be afraid.Katherine’s brother Will and his battle with substance addiction is a topic we frequently return to. Her words are never descriptive but drug use is discussed.If you are battling substance use disorder and want help call or text 988 👍🏼Resources: Katherine's Substack: Streams that Flow"Make Sense of Your Story" by Adam Young

I changed my approach to reading Scripture after this chat. Lisa’s encouragement to slow down made an instant shift simplifying my attempt to absorb Biblical truth.We chat about her journey as a mom, a wife and a seminary student. How God has blessed our church with her gift of teaching and the robust mini retreats she and I have started for the women at Rock Creek Fellowship! If you're in Chattanooga and you wanna attend "Muffins and Mugs" this Saturday morning, August 16th, you will hear Lisa teach and then you will understand why I'm so excited to have her in my sphere!Check out the show notes below for all the resources she mentions. Enjoy!The Biblical Imagination- by Michael CardPreaching that Speaks to Women- by Alice MathewsTypes of Knowers:​Silent KnowersOften shaped by environments where their voice or opinion was suppressed.​Received KnowersTrust external authorities over their own internal sense of truth.Need careful exegetical clarity, but also gentle encouragement to begin developing their own theological voice.​Subjective KnowersBegin to distrust external authority and privilege their own experiences.Learn best through personal connection and empathy.​Procedural KnowersValue both reason and experience.Understand that knowledge comes through process—interpretation, study, dialogue.Appreciate sermons that equip rather than dictate.​Constructed KnowersRecognize that knowledge is contextual and multifaceted.Learn best through dialogue, mutual respect, and participation in meaning-making.

Licensed Therapist Abby Horton processes how life and emotions can overwhelm us resulting in self harm. And how we can come alongside those we love who battle and fight for recovery.We need people to know us deeply so they are alerted when we need to be chased down. We need to know there are those in our life who will “stay in the room” as Curt Thompson says, even when it gets sticky. The people who will understand when we need to be prodded along in life and when we need space to use our voice. Those who can decipher when we feel safe or if we simply want to be rescued. Our cloud of witnesses who will be patient and kind. Time with this smart, funny, beautiful soul is a slice of heaven and spurs me on to keep being curious. WebsitesPsychology TodayWise Mind Collective in Chattanooga,TNNew Story Behavioral HealthFront Porch Circle Eating Disorder Awareness WeekResourcesSoul of Shame Soul of DesireYou Are Safe NowQuenchedUnderstanding Eating Disorders: Parents & Family Members (I can’t link this one but I have it if you need it)AcronymsRO- Radically Open Dialectical Behavior TherapyDBT-Dialectical Behavior TherapyOCD- Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder

Join me on this humbling journey of self actualization. If you caught the previous episode about Friendship, please please please listen to these clarifications.You should also most definitely read Revenge of the Tipping Point by Malcolm Gladwell.Episode art is stock photo but I plan to replace it with an original image asap!

If you know Grant Lowe, you have experienced the truest version of friendship. You have had your words held in confidence. You have had your thoughts and feelings believed and affirmed for the sole reason that they are yours. You’ve been assured in your image bearing and have been emboldened to continue to venture down life’s path with confidence. I value my friendship with Grant and am both humbled and spurred on by this conversation. Hope you enjoy it!  So many links:  Paige Benton Brown gave me the words for my Leah shaped blindspot.  I quote from this podcast many times. You should definitely listen!  You Are A Theologian is the title of the book written by Jen Wilken and JT English. None Like Him and In His Image are two studies that have been life changing to me. They aren’t mentioned in the podcast but I’m linking them anyway! Linking Front Porch Circle just in case you’ve never heard of it!

For my 50th birthday I asked my kids to record this episode. I knew it would be fun. I was not prepared for the depth of knowledge, wisdom and incredible insight this crew would bring. Maybe that's a mom fail. I don't think we're ever ready for our kids to mature and grow as much as they do as quickly as they do it. At our friend’s wedding last weekend the Father of the Bride shared a prayer. Jared has prayed and continues to pray this same prayer around the table with his kids. He prays for his kids by name, their future spouses, their children and their children's children, "that You would use our home to establish a legacy of faith." I'm humbled and grateful to experience how despite mine and Andy's weakness, regardless how our finitude infiltrates our relationships with these adult children, God continues to create a legacy of faith. With a heart filled with gratitude I am privileged to be a part of their stories. I hope you enjoy hearing their thoughts as much as I did!Only one real resource was mentioned in this episode:Reformed University Fellowship

Elodia Flynn's story of origin is a remarkable combination of divine intervention and spunky sass. Despite bayonets in her face and a severe language barrier she came to the United States at the age of 18 and has lived out her calling with confidence and grace. You do not want to miss this lady's tenacious perspective on faithful obedience to a loving Shepherd.If you're interested in Four:One Journey, the organization Elodia founded, or would like more information on what a Confessional Community is, see the links below!https://fouronejourney.orghttps://curtthompsonmd.com/the-way-of-the-confessional-community/https://www.frontporchcircle.com/new-circle

In this Afterthoughts episode I circle back to the topic of relational rupture and repair. In all relationships, not just marriage, disruption is often a healthy process for mutual growth. It can also signal unhealthy relational dynamics. Deciphering the difference can be tricky so I provide three guideposts to keep you on the right track!ENJOY!Resources:I pull a lot from our very ⁠first episode⁠ with my friend Courtney. Many concepts regarding process are the result of a ⁠CCEF⁠ session with ⁠Kelly Kapic⁠. You'd have to purchase the link but believe me, it was epic!Most of these Afterthoughts stem from a lot of personal necessity. I almost didn't post it and considered cutting out the entire final section. This one is not for everyone. But for some, it will feel like a deep breath in the middle of a long swim.

If you want the cold hard facts of 28 years relational experience, here you go! I’m grateful to my better half for his honest, kind generosity in this conversation. Marriage may be the relationship most dependent on our ability to address rupture. But every relationship will experience the need for repair. How we go about it brings glory to a Holy God and goodness to our deepest spaces. Andy and I have certainly not figured it all out. But here are some realities unique to the two of us that may ring true for others. Every collective is better for having to work out God's love through repair. Only then can we pursue holiness as individuals. Resource Links:CCEF Dr. Kelly KapicRoundtreeDr. Chip DoddFront Porch Circle (not mentioned but still really cool)

Still basking in the delight of my conversation with the brilliant Liz Edrington. In this short afterthought I dig in deeper to some of the topics we cover. Specifically in the fine line every person in every relationship is tempted to cross. Often unknowingly we hop over from healthy to unhealthy. From fulfillment in obedience to the isolation of living in a vacuum. Resources:Front Porch Circle: frontporchcircle.comA Fine Line by Leah JonesDesiring God by John PiperThe Place We Find Ourselves by Adam Young Counseling: The Process of Learning to Hear from God.The Place We Find Ourselves by Adam Young Counseling: Implicit Memory, The Thing That’s Running Your LifeNarcissism: If you don’t mind swear words this could be a valuable resourceA great article in The Washington PostCodependency described by The Allender Center

If I sound too hyped in this episode it was because I was so thrilled to process with my co-host Liz Edrington. Liz and I discuss how anxiety, loneliness, disconnection or shame should not be avoided. Avoidance only perpetuates the most difficult aspects of this life. Why is community important for the Christian life? Quite simply, our need for community is in our DNA. We were created to need other believers to know us and to be known by us. “It’s in relationship we are wounded and in relationship we are healed.”The Holy Spirit's healing happens in the body of Christ by way of trusted truth tellers who know us and are known by us.Resources and shout outs are linked below:Liz’s devotional, a valuable resource for everyone!Anxiety: Finding the Better StoryNFTC Certification with The Allender CenterCurt ThompsonThe Fellows InitiativeJonathan Haidt’s Anxious Generation

Thanks to my buddy Bennett I realized some clarification might be helpful. Add a story about my week in Florida and an illustration about a tree and here we are...our first "Afterthoughts" episode. I pulled a lot of descriptive insight from Adam Young's podcast linked below. The Place We Find OurselvesKeep stirring!

Jesus’ quoted Deuteronomy specifying how to love the Lord with separate aspects of our being: heart, mind, soul and strength. He specifies these separate parts of ourselves because it’s important. His desire is for us to be aware of each separate piece so we can maintain an integrated state. My friend Courtney and I process together how spiritual growth stems from emotional awareness, physiological sensations and neurological renewal. We also reminisced about a tender moment when I required a mini counseling session in the produce aisle at Publix. I hope you enjoy it and I would love your thoughts. As always, keep stirring! We throw around a lot of names so here’s your cheat sheet.  Pete Scazzero Curt Thompson Dan Allender Henri Nouwen Front Porch Circle Dan Siegel Andi Kolber

THANK YOU! For believing in the potential value of this podcast enough to sacrifice 7 minutes and 48 seconds of your easy listening time. I'd love your questions, thoughts, ideas, suggestions, opinions, shares, likes, etc!