Stories from the Presbyterian Pew

The word "grooming" has become a household term and is tossed around in common conversation about everything from politics to reading lists. But what does grooming really mean? What does it actually look like? And would you be able to recognize it? This episode of the Stories from the Presbyterian Pew podcast is based roughly on this article of the same title. Recommended resources: Presbyterian Church Abuse Response 101 - free online course on our site, walking through the PCA's DASA Report and interviews with DASA authors. You Are Safe Now by Tricia Lott Williford and Jana Richardson MA LPC EMDR (For a summary overview of these concepts, see this interview with the authors.) Something's Not Right by Wade Mullen Bully Pulpit by Michael J. Kruger Stories from the Presbyterian Pew depends on financial support from listeners. To contribute to the costs of producing and hosting the podcast, please visit https://presbyterianpew.org/donate/

In the first two parts of Becky's story, we heard about the crisis in her marriage and the involvement of the Presbytery. In this episode, Becky shares some practical and personal details about what it looked like to restore trust in the marriage as well as with other organizations. Stories from the Presbyterian Pew depends on financial support from listeners. To contribute to the costs of producing and hosting the podcast, please visit https://presbyterianpew.org/donate/

Today's episode picks up with the second part of Becky's story as her family returns from the mission field and the Presbytery begins the process of church discipline with her husband. You'll hear a lot of terms related to PCA church government in this episode. We'll define them for you in the introduction, but you can learn more in our free online course, Presbyterian Church Discipline 101. Stories from the Presbyterian Pew depends on financial support from listeners. To contribute to the costs of producing and hosting the podcast, please visit https://presbyterianpew.org/donate/

We begin Season 2 of the podcast with Becky's story - a story that includes pain and betrayal, but also hope and the triumph of the Gospel in the face of sin and brokenness. Becky and her husband were missionaries with the PCA's international missions organization, Mission to the World (MTW). You can find the MTW website here. Stories from the Presbyterian Pew depends on financial support from listeners. To contribute to the costs of producing and hosting the podcast, please visit https://presbyterianpew.org/donate/

For an understanding of the purpose behind the Stories from the Presbyterian Pew Podcast, we recommend the first episode from Season 1. You can find that here or on your favorite podcast app. A year ago, I wrote "Why I Refuse to Pick Good Guys and Bad Guys in the PCA". Today's episode covers similar ideas. The live Zoom conversations from our DASA Discussion Facebook group can now be found in our free online course, Presbyterian Church Abuse Response 101. To volunteer or find out more about the opportunities, visit our Volunteer page. If you would like to be a Presbytery Companion, you can find the details here. Here is a link to the full episode of Dr. Russell Moore's interview with Dr. Diane Langberg. Stories from the Presbyterian Pew depends on financial support from listeners. To contribute to the costs of producing and hosting the podcast, please visit https://presbyterianpew.org/donate/

Sign up to be a Presbytery Companion: https://presbyterianpew.org/companion/ Donate to send Lynna to General Assembly next year and get a "I Support BCO Education for Everyone" sticker: https://presbyterianpew.org/send-me-to-ga/ A collection of X updates about the Overtures Committee business: https://presbyterianpew.org/2025-overtures-committee-actions/ Timestamped links to all major debates and decisions during the main meetings of General Assembly: https://presbyterianpew.org/highlights-2025-general-assembly/ Speech in support of Item 3 (expanded representation for accused): https://www.youtube.com/live/W8LQRTMDFzk?t=12317s Minority Report on Overture 12 (limiting distribution of communion to officers only): https://www.youtube.com/live/oOBNhKlbWXs?si=KntYYNtOcs_c8h3U&t=5483 The Importance of Administrative Suspension During a Trial: The Problems with Overture 31 - https://presbyterianpew.org/administrative-suspension-overture-31/ Statement by Moderator Steve Dowling and MNA Coordinator Dr. Irwyn Ince regarding affinity troups (link in post to MNA statement): https://byfaithonline.com/gospel-priorities-statement/ Subscribe to our newsletter: https://presbyterianpew.org/subscribe/ Stories from the Presbyterian Pew depends on financial support from listeners. To contribute to the costs of producing and hosting the podcast, please visit https://presbyterianpew.org/donate/

Learn more about Adair's work, sign up for her newsletter, and support her financially on her MTW profile here. You can also email her at [email protected] Stories from the Presbyterian Pew depends on financial support from listeners. To contribute to the costs of producing and hosting the podcast, please visit https://presbyterianpew.org/donate/

Here is the text of Book of Church Order chapter 40, paragraph 5 (BCO 40-5) When any court having appellate jurisdiction shall receive a credible report with respect to the court next below of any important delinquency or grossly unconstitutional proceedings of such court, the first step shall be to cite the court alleged to have offended to appear before the court having appellate jurisdiction, or its commission, by representative or in writing, at a specified time and place, and to show what the lower court has done or failed to do in the case in question. The court thus issuing the citation may reverse or redress the proceedings of the court below in other than judicial cases; or it may censure the delinquent court; or it may remit the whole matter to the delinquent court with an injunction to take it up and dispose of it in a constitutional manner; or it may stay all further proceedings in the case; as circumstances may require. If you believe you may need to submit a 40-5 to a Presbytery or to the General Assembly, please contact us for information and support. Would you consider being a Presbytery Companion? You can find more information here. Stories from the Presbyterian Pew depends on financial support from listeners. To contribute to the costs of producing and hosting the podcast, please visit https://presbyterianpew.org/donate/

Today is our final episode about Overtures to the 2025 PCAGeneral Assembly. Here is a link to the article written by the family of Sarah Young, author of Jesus Calling. Here is the post with a summary of all 2025 Overtures to General Assembly. Join our free Facebook Group to discuss and ask questions about General Assembly. Download the 2025 Overtures Tracking Sheet here. Listen to the Polity Matters guys talk about Overtures for elevating a censure and the court case behind it here (minute marker 16:54) Article on Overture 31 - The Importance of Administrative Suspension During a Trial: Problems with Overture 31 Stories from the Presbyterian Pew depends on financial support from listeners. To contribute to the costs of producing and hosting the podcast, please visit https://presbyterianpew.org/donate/

In our third episode about Overtures to the 2025 General Assembly we discuss Overtures related to various committees and agencies of the General Assembly. Here are some diagrams that show the difference between how slots on most of the committees and agencies of the General Assembly are filled vs how slots on the Administrative Committee are filled. Here is a link to an article about a PCA pastor whose Temporary Protected Status was removed. The Refugee and Immigrant Ministry is under the umbrella of MNA (Mission to North America). Here is a link to the apology by TE Irwyn Ince after the webpage with links to third-party organizations giving legal advice to undocumented people was taken down. Stories from the Presbyterian Pew depends on financial support from listeners. To contribute to the costs of producing and hosting the podcast, please visit https://presbyterianpew.org/donate/

This is Part 2 of our special series on 2025 PCA General Assembly Overtures. Here is a link to the MASSIVE post we published summarizing all the Overtures. And for discussion and questions, join our Facebook Group here. You can find the article about the MTW and CDM reports on Jesus Calling here. Stories from the Presbyterian Pew depends on financial support from listeners. To contribute to the costs of producing and hosting the podcast, please visit https://presbyterianpew.org/donate/

Today, we're doing something a bit different. Instead of hearing from one of our storytellers, we'll take a few episodes to talk about the upcoming PCA General Assembly. You can find an article describing all of this year's Overtures here. And if you'd like a space to ask questions and learn more about how General Assembly operates, you can join our free Facebook Group. Stories from the Presbyterian Pew depends on financial support from listeners. To contribute to the costs of producing and hosting the podcast, please visit https://presbyterianpew.org/donate/

Lane joins us for Part 2 of her story and shares what she discovered when she and her husband requested the session minutes. Stories from the Presbyterian Pew depends on financial support from listeners. To contribute to the costs of producing and hosting the podcast, please visit https://presbyterianpew.org/donate/

In this story, Lane talks about filing a complaint with the session of their church. Chapter 43 of the Book of Church Order covers complaints, but the only explicit information about what a complaint includes are these two sentences from 43-1 and 43-2: "A complaint is a written representation made against some act or decision of a court of the Church. It is the right of any communing member of the Church in good standing to make complaint against any action of a court to whose jurisdiction he is subject, except that no complaint is allowable in a judicial case in which an appeal is pending...Written notice of complaint, with supporting reasons, shall be filed with the clerk of the court within sixty (60) days following the meeting of the court." For more information on PCA church discipline and accountability, you can access our free course Presbyterian Church Discipline 101. Stories from the Presbyterian Pew depends on financial support from listeners. To contribute to the costs of producing and hosting the podcast, please visit https://presbyterianpew.org/donate/

One aspect of this part of Ashley's story is the difficulty she had being released from her membership in a PCA church after she had been harmed there and was struggling to find a safe place to worship. Ashley is very much not alone in this struggle. If you are facing that difficulty, please reach out to us through the form on our website. We can help you to navigate all of the factors involved in your decision and to understand your options. https://presbyterianpew.org/contact/ Stories from the Presbyterian Pew depends on financial support from listeners. To contribute to the costs of producing and hosting the podcast, please visit https://presbyterianpew.org/donate/  

Here are some relevant sections from the Book of Church Order about teaching elders serving "out of bounds". 8-7. A Presbytery may, at its discretion, approve the call of a teaching elder to work with an organization outside the jurisdiction of the Presbyterian Church in America, provided that he be engaged in preaching and teaching the Word, that the Presbytery be assured he will have full freedom to maintain and teach the doctrine of our Church, and that he report at least annually on his work. As far as possible, such a teaching elder shall be a member of the Presbytery within whose bounds he labors. (See BCO 20-1.) 13-2. A minister shall be required to hold his membership in the Presbytery within whose geographical bounds he resides, unless there are reasons which are satisfactory to his Presbytery why he should not do so. When a minister labors outside the geographical bounds of, or in a work not under the jurisdiction of his Presbytery, at home or abroad, it shall be only with the full concurrence of and under circumstances agreeable to his Presbytery, and to the Presbytery within whose geographical bounds he labors, if one exists. When a minister shall continue on the rolls of his Presbytery without a call to a particular work for a prolonged period, not exceeding three years, the procedure as set forth in BCO 34-10 shall be followed. A minister without call shall make or file a report to his Presbytery at least once each year. Stories from the Presbyterian Pew depends on financial support from listeners. To contribute to the costs of producing and hosting the podcast, please visit https://presbyterianpew.org/donate/

Here are the definitions of Sexual Assault and Sexual Harassment from the DASA Report. Sexual Assault Sexual assault is any type of sexual behavior or contact where consent is not freely given or obtained. It is accomplished through force, intimidation, violence, coercion, manipulation, threat, deception, or abuse of authority. Sexual Harassment Sexual harassment is a form of sex discrimination prohibited by Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. It consists of inappropriate verbal or physical conduct of a sexual nature that has the purpose or effect of unreasonably interfering with an individual's sense of well-being by creating an intimidating, hostile, or offensive environment from the viewpoint of the affected individual. Stories from the Presbyterian Pew depends on financial support from listeners. To contribute to the costs of producing and hosting the podcast, please visit https://presbyterianpew.org/donate/

In the state where Ashley grew up and now lives, clergy are mandatory reporters of child abuse. That was not the case when Ashley was a minor, however, that does not excuse the callousness and neglect she experienced when reaching out to church leaders for help. For more information on state laws about clergy and mandatory reporting, see the document Clergy as Mandatory Reporters of Abuse and Neglect. Here are two sections of the Book of Church Order (BCO) about the nomination and election of officers as referenced in the podcast. 24-3. All communing members in good and regular standing, but no others, are entitled to vote in the election of church officers in the churches to which they respectively belong. A majority vote of votes cast (excluding blanks and abstentions) is required for election. 24-4. The voters being convened, the moderator shall explain the purpose of the meeting and then put the question: Are you now ready to proceed to the election of additional ruling elders (or deacons) from the slate presented? If they declare themselves ready, the election may proceed by private ballot without nomination. In every case a majority of all the votes cast (excluding blanks and abstentions) shall be required to elect. Another section was recently added to the BCO (final approval in 2023) that may be relevant in such cases. This language was designed to respond to concerns about officers referring to themselves as "gay" or "same-sex attracted". However, it may be useful in cases where abuse has been reported about a man standing for election to office: "In the examination of the nominee's personal character, the Session shall give specific attention to potential notorious concerns. Careful attention must be given to his practical struggle against sinful actions, as well as to persistent sinful desires. The nominee must give clear testimony of reliance upon his union with Christ and the benefits thereof by the Holy Spirit, depending on this work of grace to make progress over sin. ... [T]he Session may render a decision on Christian experience at any point in the process, and based on that decision, may judge him ineligible for that election." This passage makes it clear that without the need of a formal judicial process, a session may at any time in the process determine a man ineligible for election to office based on their knowledge of his character and what practical measures he is taking to resist persistent sinful desires. For more information on the process of nominating and electing officers in PCA churches, see Video 3 in the series An Inside Look at the PCA here. Stories from the Presbyterian Pew depends on financial support from listeners. To contribute to the costs of producing and hosting the podcast, please visit https://presbyterianpew.org/donate/

This podcast episode covered a lot of factual information about the BCO - the Book of Church Order - that governs church discipline in PCA churches. If you would like to learn more about the ideas we discussed, we recommend our free course Presbyterian Church Discipline 101. We also referenced a case of the standing Judicial Commission: SJC 2019-06. You can download the full report of the SJC on this case here. Stories from the Presbyterian Pew depends on financial support from listeners. To contribute to the costs of producing and hosting the podcast, please visit https://presbyterianpew.org/donate/

In this episode, Jeanie mentioned that she found help from two podcasts and a group. Here are links to those resources: The Flying Free Podcast The Bare Marriage Podcast The Flying Free group In the introduction, we read a quote from the report of the Domestic Abuse and Sexual Assault Committee of the PCA. At the end of the episode, we also recommended the paper "Divorce and Domestic Abuse". It is written by Shane Waldron, PCA Pastor and founder of Refuge Ministries. The paper is included as an attachment to the PCA's DASA Report. You can download the Report near the bottom of this page. Stories from the Presbyterian Pew depends on financial support from listeners. To contribute to the costs of producing and hosting the podcast, please visit https://presbyterianpew.org/donate/

Why tell stories of harm? Why another podcast? Why this podcast? Today, we're talking about the purpose behind Stories from the Presbyterian Pew, plus responding to possible objections to sharing these stories. Stories from the Presbyterian Pew depends on financial support from listeners. To contribute to the costs of producing and hosting the podcast, please visit https://presbyterianpew.org/donate/

The first episode of Stories from the Presbyterian Pew, a brand new resources by Advocacy from the Presbyterian Pew drops April 1. Until then, listen to the intro from the first episode to get an idea for what we've got planned!