The 18STRONG Podcast

Guest: Bo Watson & Shannon Shuskey (In the Zone Mental Training, Authors In the Zone Secrets)Host: Jeff PelizzaroEpisode Number: 371Podcast: The 18STRONG PodcastPartners: Linksoul, 1stPhorm Summary Join us as we explore the intricate dance between the mind and the golf swing with mental training experts Bo Watson and Shannon Shuskey of In the Zone Mental Training. Together, we unravel the significant impact of mental coaching in conjunction with golf instruction. Hear about Bo’s personal struggles with golf and the pivotal role Shannon’s expertise played in not just refining his game, but transforming the way he—and any golfer—can harness the power of visualization. From the tee box to the final putt, this conversation is a treasure trove for those looking to elevate their mental game and savor the joy of golf like never before. Listen in as we discuss the transformative power of mindset in sports performance. Shannon opens up about his journey from anxiety-ridden to confident, culminating in becoming a national champion speed skater, and how that mental shift can be equally effective on the golf course. Skepticism meets evidence when Bo applies a custom mental trigger, leading to astonishing improvements in his game after a two-year break. This dialogue will leave you pondering the potential for mental techniques to revolutionize sports and how a single change in perception can be a game-changer. We round out our conversation with an insightful look into mental imagery’s role in sports performance and technique, the concept of ‘caveman golf’ for achieving flow, and the psychological intricacies unique to golf. Discover how legends like Tiger Woods and Sam Snead leverage mental imagery to perform under pressure and how these techniques can empower you to reset mentally on the course. As Bo and Shannon share their book insights and their passion for the game, this episode is not just a lesson in golf—it’s an invitation to transform how you approach every shot, mentally and emotionally. Bo and Shannon’s Background Bo is the Co-Founder of In The Zone Mental Training and Co-Author of the new book called In The Zone Secrets. He has been a host of 2 Consistent Golf Summits and the Road2TheTour Golf Summit, which collectively drew over 20,000 registered attendees. These Summits featured some of the world’s best coaches such as Sean Foley, James Sieckmann, David Orr, Mark Broadie, Scott Fawcett, Nick Clearwater, Dr. Kwon, Andrew Rice, and many others. The primary purpose behind these summits was to help golfers shortcut their path to consistent golf! Shannon was the Operations Manager of the largest Golds Gym on East Coast and Mental Performance Mastery Coach for 20 years, Sports Performance Specialist for 30 years, specifically working in the sport of speed skating, coaching hundreds of high level athletes in including several Olympic qualifiers and medalists. It was Shannon’s mental training techniques that helped his athletes achieve such high levels that intrigued Bo to try them on himself for golf. The success of this “experiment” led to the partnership that is now the helping golfers all over the world shoot their lowest scores ever. Bo and Shannon’s mission is to help 100,000 golfers shoot their new lifetime low rounds. They currently work with Tour Players, College Golfers, and the everyday golfer who wants to play their best golf yet! Main Topics (00:03) The Mental Edge Mental coaching and visualization can enhance golf performance and enjoyment, discussed by In the Zone Mental Training. (11:06) Triggering Performance Excellence Transformational journey in sports performance, from anxiety to confidence, using custom triggers to improve without practice. (21:45) Mental Imagery in Sports Performance Nature’s mental imagery in sports includes basic visual and kinesthetic techniques for skill acquisition and muscle memory. (29:02) The Power of Caveman Golf Nature’s “caveman golf” focuses on target and flow, contrasting with pursuit of perfect swing. Psychological aspects and influence of Alex Morrison also discussed. (36:26) Mental Imagery in Golf Techniques Exploring mental techniques of top golfers like Tiger Woods, importance of protein for athletes, and power of positive mindset in golf. (47:14) Mental Imagery and Performance Enhancement Mental approaches in golf, interest-curiosity mindset, anxiety and reward value, “ball reset” technique, positive self-talk and imagery, Sam Snead’s success. (59:00) Golf Book and Course Recommendations Bo and Shannon share insights from their book, discuss impactful books and dream golf foursomes, and recommend inspiring social media accounts. Follow Bo Watson & Shannon Shuskey Instagram Bo Watson: @schooloflifetimelowrounds Shannon Shuskey: @shannonshuskey Links Mentioned Website: IntheZonementalTraining.com Book: InthezoneSecrets.com Episode Partners: LINKSOUL: For your 20% discount on LINKSOUL gear, go to 18strong.com/linksoul or click the logo above. 1st Phorm: Try any of the 1st Phorm products with FREE SHIPPING, go to 1stphorm.com/18strong.com (By using this link, you will be entered into our Monthly 1st Phorm Giveaway!) More Cool Stuff to Check Out: To continue the conversation and ask any questions you may have, head over to the 18STRONG Movement group on Facebook. 18STRONG Pro Shop (Get your 18STRONG gear!) 18STRONG Resources (All of the cool stuff we recommend: products, books, golf stuff, etc – and discount codes for the 18STRONG Crew) Want the full episode transcript? (click the “+” ????????) 0:00:04 – Jeff Pelizzarothe 18STRONG podcast, episode number 371, with bo watson and shannon Shushkey of in the zone mental training. What’s up, guys? Welcome back to the 18STRONG Podcast, where we’re here to help you build a stronger game, because we believe every golfer deserves to play better, longer. In this episode we have Bo Watson and Shannon Shushkey, the creators of the In the Zone mental training and the authors of the recent book In the Zone Secrets. And today’s episode is awesome because we’ve got the mental side, we’ve got the golf side. Bo’s background is in golf instruction and is a high level golf coach and went through a period of time where he was a little frustrated with the game, ended up actually leaving the industry. But when he met Shannon Shushkey, who is a mental game coach, performance coach, but really his background is in speed skating and working with speed skaters, but learned how to teach them and work with them on getting in the zone, when the two paths crossed, they started to figure out that this could be a game changer for the game of golf. So in this episode we go deep into visualization and what it looks like to really visualize to help your performance on the golf course, what it looks like when you step on the tee box and what that mental rehearsal and work really should look like and ends up looking like if you’re going to shoot lower scores. We also talk about how you can accelerate swing changes. Often we hear that when you’re working on the mental game, should you be looking at the shot or should you be looking at what your body’s doing? So we talk about how working on your mental game and your visualization can actually help accelerate your swing changes and how you can drop your scores without physical practice. So we’re going to go into depth on controlling the images that you see, controlling your emotions out on the course and ultimately enjoying the game even more. You’re going to really enjoy this episode with Bo and Shannon. Our partners over at Link Soul have been providing us with the best apparel for both on the course and off the course, from polos to t-shirts like the one I have on right now. Everything that they have is meant to be worn from the golf course to wherever you’re going next, whether that be casual, whether that be to the beach there’s all different options over there. So go to 18strong.com slash Linksoul. You’ll get 20% off of anything in your cart over on Linksoul’s website. So again, 18strong.com slash Linksoul for our favorite brand of apparel for anything on the golf course and off. Now let’s get to this week’s interview. Brand of apparel for anything on the golf course and off. Now let’s get to this week’s interview Bo Watson, shannon. 0:02:51 – Bo WatsonShushkey, welcome to the 18STRONG Podcast. 0:02:54 – Shannon ShuskeyThanks for having us. Yeah, thanks for having us. This is exciting. 0:02:56 – Jeff PelizzaroAbsolutely. This is going to be an exciting one for me and our 18STRONG crew. I know, bo, I kind of heard of you guys through your connection with Carl Morris and being on Carl’s show and Carl’s one of our favorites over here at 18STRONG and you guys did a great episode with him that I’m also going to encourage everybody to listen to and we’ll put that in the show notes. So I know that just by listening to that episode going through your book, the philosophies are so aligned with what we believe here at 18STRONG, just as far as the intention of the game is really for us to really enjoy it. And I think that you know, obviously by playing better you enjoy it more. But you guys go so much into the idea that you know putting this intention into playing better allows you to really enjoy the game more. And it’s about even bigger things than the game too. So first of all I just want to kind of preface that to our audience that they’re in for quite a ride here with you guys. I would love to start out with and, bo, I’ll kind of throw this at you I’d love for you to start out with a little bit of the background of how you two met because I think the story of your connection and where you were mentally in your career and everything, bo, is really crucial to the story. And then how Shannon came in. 0:04:10 – Bo WatsonYeah, it’s always a funny story to tell, because where I was is where I think a lot of people are kind of in their game right now or have been at some point in their golfing journey and so kind of give a little bit of a context behind that. In 2016, I actually stepped away from the game Like I closed down my golf school. I was a very successful golf coach up to that point. I’ve been blessed to learn over some of the best in the game. You know the who’s who, so to speak, and mainly that’s because of my relationship with David, or those of you of you that aren’t familiar with David Orr. David’s considered the best putting coach in the world. Him and Phil Kenyon are kind of battling neck and neck for that title. But the thing is, because of that relationship, because I was at school at Campbell and I fell in love with teaching a game, I left school, opened my own golf school and I’m having a lot of success. But the problem was, as a coach, I’m a type, a type personality. Every person that comes and sees me I want to help and, you know, kind of give you some background on our track record. We were averaging 4.7 shots dropped across handicaps, uh, for every student that we worked with, on average in about a six month time span. So we were doing a little bit better than the industry average at the time. You know, golf Tech prides themselves on seven strokes in a year. We’re doing a little bit better than them. So I kind of like to say that and rub that a little bit in the Clearwater space a little bit. But the thing is, at the end of the day I still had, you know, a few students coming to me and I couldn’t help them. And the ones that I couldn’t help, jeff, were the ones that were like hey, bo, why is it that I always start terribly on the front side but then I play amazing on the back? And it could be vice versa. I mean it could be. You know, they play really well, shoot like 36, 37, 35 on the front, and then they go to the backside and shoot 46, 48. And you know, some of them would have this trouble of getting to this one hole and it’s a negative habit loop and that’s like no matter what they do, they always hit in the water. And it was those kind of students I didn’t have an answer for and I’ll tell you. It came to a head in september 2016. I’ll never forget it. It’s september, it’s late in the evening, he’s my last lesson of the night and we we basically had an honest conversation where I said you know what? I can’t help you and the the interesting thing about this one particular student was that, on paper, strokes gain data. When we go out and be playing lessons together, we go out and play a few holes, the data is showing that he should be in the 70s and even on top of that when we do lessons and we’re working on his game ball striking wise, this guy should be a low, single digit handicapper. But the issue was, when you go and play in tournaments, it would be high 80s, low 90s every time he goes out and plays and I, finally, I just I don’t have an answer and we decided to part ways. I got fired that evening and, uh, that was like the final straw for me because it finally came to head, where I was so frustrated, not only not being able to help my students, but the biggest reason was because, personally, as a player, I still had yet to overcome these obstacles in my own game, and then I, when I left that evening, I shut down the golf school. I started putting out resumes and I started applying to different jobs, and then I left the game of golf for good and had no intention of ever coming back into the game until two years later. I meet this guy, shannon Shushkey, at a dinner one night. And then, you know, I got to say and be honest, my game changed, but then my life also changed as a result of it. 0:07:52 – Jeff PelizzaroAnd that’s why I’m now here and loving what I do on a daily basis. So, Shannon, if you could kind of pick up where you met Bo. 0:08:02 – Shannon ShuskeyI know you guys went out to dinner, I believe, and it had nothing to do with golf, right? No, absolutely. I was over the ministry team at our church and I was leading prayer class and he was wanting to be on the ministry team and stuff like that, and so I wanted to go out just to get to know him. And what’s crazy is you can’t make this up he was working at a place where I just quit, probably about two years prior to that or a year prior to that, and so I was like, okay, this is first and foremost. That’s uncanny, you know, but you can’t make up the story of how we met and because, once we got there and at the restaurant we were eating and with how, everything, we didn’t even get to know each other. I was sharing with him the things that I’ve experienced when it comes to speed skating and being able to trigger my body to get in the zone on demand at the flip of the switch, and he was like there’s no way. And I was explaining to him where I was in my speed skating, how it literally transformed me as a competitor. Um, for example, what happened with me was, um, my background. I played soccer, played semi-pro, so I was pretty fast with shoes on, but then you put skates on. What in the world was going on? It’s a different monster that was out there, and I was getting last off the starting line, um, every single time. Now, here’s the thing the team that I skated for we had 22 national champions in the prospective age group, so it was kind of like me going out against a who’s who I was like a 30-year-old, you know, going against these kids, however, and so I’m getting last off the starting line in practice, not just in practice, but at meets and everything like that. But I knew that there was a mental disconnect, because whenever we were playing around and we’d have our shoes on or whatnot and we would race, I would beat them hands down, hands down. So I knew it’s just like in golf. You know how often um, you did, does your listeners and everybody’s listening this podcast, for example. You know you can play lights out on the golf range, but yeah, when it comes time to any kind of pressured situation or just going out to the golf course, the change in atmosphere, the environment and stuff like that, and it’s like, okay, where did my game go? That’s what was going on with me and so I was getting mental reps in and literally after I figured out with this concept and this system that I developed, literally within one month I started beating. I would say I was probably getting about halfway through off the starting line and then, within a little over a month, I was winning every single start. And then a month and a half I was winning every start, not just practice, but at meets. And then there was a huge shift, even like literally my I was not nervous before any race. That changed. I was going in more confident and as a result of that, on top of that and it was like, okay, a name is, is just a name. But when I stepped up to the stop of mel, whether this is true or not, a name is just a name but mentally, going up to the starting line, I knew that I was the one to beat. Now, whether that was true or not, I mean I would race world champions knowing that I wasn’t, you know, on the same level as them, but mentally, a whole shift. And so I’m sharing with Bo on this system I literally the whole, I mean probably an hour and a half and I’m sharing with him how to trigger his body and stuff like that. Now his reaction was not what I thought was going to happen, because he was laughing at me. He was like there’s no way, you can’t do this, not for the game of golf. And then he’s laughing. He’s like I’m going to go out and I’m going to prove you wrong, right? And so then I was like, well, I pulled out my phone and I started showing him a few things. But now I’m going to transition. I went, you know, uh oh and by the way, not just, not just me when it starts either becoming national champion and breaking the record in speed skating, and so that was a huge game ship game changer for me. But then I’ll let uh both kind of finish the story on what happened the rest of that night and then the next two months yeah, I’ll see what everybody is is probably thinking right now at this point, and that is this is totally full of crap. 0:12:52 – Bo Watsonand that’s what I said to shannon that night when he said, you know, I wasn’t able to get my speed skaters or trick their bodies in the zone down. To get some context for you guys, he had coached 142 national champions, eight world champions, two Olympic medalists. Now that’s a hall of fame resume. And that’s what prompted me to be like well, that’s amazing, like what did you do? And then that’s when he dropped the bomb on me, so to speak, and he said I was able to get my speed skater stricter by his end his own and I I literally laughed, and I still laugh because I feel like there is absolutely no way this could be true. Because I said look, from my own experience, you know, when I struggled in high school and when I started, you know doing everything under the sun like getting, you know, training days, reading all the books and living on Golf Channel Academy Live and I’m trying to do everything I can to get the edge in my own swing. You know, again, kind of falling into the trap of the search for the perfect swing and unfortunately that made me worse and then, as a result, it sidetracked me to a point where I thought everything was mental. So I read all the mental game books out there and you name it, I read it and I read those outside of the game of golf. And I said, shannon, you realize that sports psychologists and these authors have all said what the zone looks like, but nobody has ever found a step-by-step process on how to get there. And you’re telling me that you figured that process out. And he said yes, and I said I still don’t believe you. And it was at that point when Shannon said earlier, he pulled out his phone and he starts like going through and he’s finding these text messages of all of his world champions, the Olympic medalist that he coached and these other national record holders, and they’re all saying the same thing Jeff, custom trigger, custom trigger, custom trigger. And I said you know, okay, this may work for speed skating, but I said, jeff, it’s not going to work for golf. I said there’s no way. And he kind of pushed me a little bit further and then he walked me through an exercise and we can get through that in a second. But it really opened my eyes and I said, all right, this may work. And I said, Shannon, if this does work, this is going to change a game of golf overnight. And I said you know what? I’m the best prime candidate that could prove this, if it does work for golf. And I said here’s why. I said I haven’t touched a club in two years, I haven’t played around in two years and nor do I even really have a desire, but this is intriguing enough to where I will come out and go and play and see if this thing actually works or not. And I said here’s what I’m gonna do. I’ll take what you’re gonna teach me. I’m not gonna practice. I’m not even go to range, I’m only gonna go straight to the first tee. I might hit a few pots on the day of the time I’m playing, and that’s it. That’s what I. Eight rounds in the second half of 2018. I go six out of the eight rounds under par. I go from an index before the 2.4 plus 1.7 within that same time frame, and the rest is history. We’ve done some amazing things ever since, but yeah, that’s kind of a quick run around how we came together. 0:15:40 – Jeff PelizzaroI mean it’s such an incredible story and I love hearing it again. I mean it’s such an incredible story and I love hearing it again, and just like I can only picture you sitting at that dinner table, you know, just kind of like laughing, like, yeah, okay, this guy, you know, and then he starts rattling off. You know like who he’s worked with and you start to see those, and then it’s kind of like, okay, let’s. But you were saying that you thought it’d be different from golf, because golf is so different from other sports, right? And so, shannon, first I want to ask you it sounds like you first kind of figured this out for yourself and started to implement it into your own practice speed skating, into your own endeavors athletically, then started to teach it what, like where did the shift come from? Or what is that missing ingredient that so many other coaches have not been able to put their finger on, that you were able to just kind of inherently figure out for yourself. 0:16:35 – Shannon ShuskeySo what’s interesting is? It’s funny because this is even mind blowing to me, because all the books that I read up until that point I was doing it plain wrong than what they were saying. But it actually goes down to when Psychology 101 actually took that in college and if anybody’s ever taken that as an elective or as a psychologist, we’ve worked with doctors and psychologists and stuff like that too. They’ve heard of Pavlov’s dogs and which is so in the, in the study. With Pavlov’s dogs there would be a light or a buzzer, a sound or anything like that, and then what would happen is food would drop down for the dog to eat and then what happened is they noticed two different things in classical conditioning. They noticed the behavior of the dog, but then also salivating. We hear a lot about the salivation part of it, but we don’t really necessarily talk about about the behavior, and everybody has a dog can do this. You, as soon as you get food out, what’s going on? The dog starts jumping around, it starts doing in circles and stuff like that. Right, that’s the behavior, but also the salivation that was going on with the dog. The light would come, the food, and then what happens is a week later they were come the food. And then what happens is, a week later they were training the dog. So then what happens is two couple weeks later, or a short term, spin came they. They noticed that when the trigger went, that the light or the buzzer went off, and then that would not drop food, the dog would. Behavior would be the same thing, but also the dog would be salivating. And see, that’s what I was doing. I was figuring out okay, I’m going to do a trigger to get my body there, but then I’m also going to put the pieces of the puzzle together using kinesthetic mineral imagery. And where, at the time, I didn’t know anything about kinesthetic mineral imagery, it just so happened that the definition of it actually is exactly what I was doing, right, um? And so the important thing is like, when you’re doing mental imagery, um, you have to have all your five senses activated, I mean at a high level. You know, you want to be attention to detail, like, for example, if the wind is blowing, can you feel the wind? You know, and not just that, you know the sights. What are you seeing? Can you see the dimples in the in the ball? Can you hear? You know when you swing your club, you know, going to hit it, uh, and stuff like that. So then I was that’s what I was doing with my mental imagery was I was making it so real, getting all five senses, uh, involved. But however um, I like to use it this way when it comes to mental imagery, there’s actually seven senses and getting seven senses involved. The reason why I say that is because, number one, you got to have limb movement, your arms, your body, body movement going into it. You got to feel it, you got to do it and, matter of fact, the more that you do it, matter of fact, there’s been numerous studies when people have been hooked up with electrodes and EMGs and stuff like that. And when you’re doing mental imagery, the ones that are making it real, they actually their muscles are twitching, they’re firing and stuff like that. But then also that the seventh sense is adding emotion to it, because your emotion can change, how focused you get, how dialed in that you can get, for example, making the target feel like a magnet pulling you to it. You know what I’m saying when it’s almost like okay, even though aim small, miss small, but it seems like that target is huge because you’re just so dialed and locked into it, and so that’s what I was doing. I was getting those three pieces, the trigger with the emotion and the mental imagery in there. So then, when it came time for me to perform, I was doing it. So that’s what I was sharing with Bo that night. But I was going step by step by step on how to do it, and so that was basically a long answer to your question there. 0:20:47 – Jeff PelizzaroNo, that’s great, and I want to get as much as we can out of this short time that we have together so we can give some people some actionable steps. And then obviously you know we can’t put a whole book in an episode, so then they’ll want to go get the book and, you know, dissect every single piece. But you talk about kinesthetic mental imagery and psychoneuromuscular imagery, psychoneuromuscular training, and I want to kind of break those down a little bit. But what’s the difference between kinesthetic mental imagery and mental imagery? You guys make a distinction in the book, because I think that most of us hear about visualization and, like you just said, we picture what we’re trying to do and I think we’ve all tried this as golfers. But you guys go into so much more detail about those kind of things. But can you differentiate really between kinesthetic and mental? Is that simply bringing in the emotion and the movement, adding those pieces? 0:21:44 – Bo Watson100%. Mental imagery is in its most basic form. It’s just simply just seeing things Like there’s no emotion that’s attached to it. It’s just, I would say, visualization 101, kind of like what most people are doing on a very basic level that they’ve been taught. I’m a big fan of Vision 54, what Len and Pete have done, and so when the people are standing back in a think visualization box, I think the simplest way to describe what mental imagery versus kinesthetic mental imagery is is. Mental imagery is you’re just simply just close your eyes and you’re just seeing the shot, like there’s nothing else that’s really attached to it. Kinesthetic mental imagery is where you’re taking it to a totally different level, meaning you’re now putting in all the awareness what you’re hearing, what you’re seeing. Maybe you can even see yourself like tasting like Gatorade, or if you’re drinking a beer in the round and you’re just walking up to the tee box, you’re hearing your playing partners over to the side. You know you’re also more engaged with the detail, like what Shannon just shared. But the other piece of this is again what Shannon just shared when moving. So you’re actually physically feeling the movements as you’re doing it and then, last but not least, the emotion that’s attached to it. And so when you look at the two types and then you look at all the studies there have been numerous studies and we have a lot of those referenced in our book at the end of the book but I guess it’s really fascinating when you see what kinesthetic mental injury is doing for people when it comes to like rehab, when it comes to, you know, even strength gains. You know there have been numerous studies out there where people are just doing uh, shannon can reference that in a second but like there are numerous studies where people just do tennis, study mental injury of them doing an exercise or workout and yet they’re still seeing amazing strength gains versus just doing it physically only and so like when you do the combination of two, I mean it’s like a massive, like knockout punch, so to speak, and so you can really accelerate things. And this is true even when it comes to the swing and how you want to improve your swing and you want to do a swing change. This is how you would do it and you can accelerate in a shorter time span. But I will say this about kinesthetic mental injury because shannon kind of alluded to it earlier. One of the best early examples was in 1980. The author of the study was Suinn S-U-I-N-N. You can go look this up. And what was so cool about the study is they studied an Olympic downhill skier and what they did was they had him actually physically go out and do the actual training of the course, where he was running down the slopes and everything, and they had his muscles hooked up and so they’re measuring off the ekg I think that’s what it’s called and they’re seeing the muscle activity. But then they sat him down and he is physically sitting completely still and they’re having him go through the course in his mind and he’s engaging all the sensors and what was fascinating is that his muscles were actually firing at a even higher level than when he was doing it physically well so that was one of the big I guess you would say um hallmark studies, that kind of like got a lot of other people on board and so this has been a big, heavily researched topic over the last like 40 years, uh, since that one study came out. It has been really fascinating. People go down a rabbit hole really quick when you get on the kinesthetic mental imagery. 0:25:10 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah. So, shannon, when you’re talking about the kinesthetic and feeling the limbs moving, you’re not actually standing up and like practicing a swing. You’re literally just trying to tap into the feelings that you would have when you’re out there. Is that correct? To tap into the feelings that you would have when you’re out there Is that correct? 0:25:25 – Shannon ShuskeyYeah, absolutely. However, what we want to do is because, for example, a beginner, when it comes to doing mental imagery, what we would have them do is physically do a swing and then do mental imagery of that swing and go back and forth. So then that way you’re getting the feeling of it dialed in right, because it’s fresh on your mind. You know, we always say when you’re going out, you know, when you’re on the golf course, you’re doing your swing twice, you’re playing the round at least twice. It’s sometimes three times or four times, not just once, because mentally you’re rehearsing it over different, different shots over and over again in your head. And so that’s one of the things that we’re doing when it comes to that like and and then you. Then there’s levels of mental imagery that we actually talk about in the book. We call them five levels of mental imagery, and that’s the basic level, and the elementary, preschool level is all right. Let’s get the feeling dialed in, and that’s how you get it done. Like you can go out to the range, for example, get your balls there, go through your pre-shot routine, hit the ball and then do mental imagery of what that felt like, and then just keep alternating back and forth and then do more mental imagery going in there. So then you’re actually feeling it. So then, but then when you get your mental reps away from the course, that’s where all your gains are. A lot of people think that their gains are on the golf course. No, that’s just, that’s like taking your test right. You’re getting everything away from the golf course before you even get there. Because if you wait till you get there, it’s too late. Your body’s going to react to what you’re, what you’re, what we’re saying here for. So you got to get your reps away from the course. It’s just like you know, going to the gym, you know somebody is trying to lose weight, they go to the gym, you know, to the gym, you know somebody’s trying to lose weight. They go to the gym, you know. And then they come home and then they look at uh, look in the mirror. They’re like, well, nothing, nothing happened, I’m done. No, that’s not how it works, right, you have to give your body time to start reacting to it by going to your mental gym and getting those reps in and getting the feeling of that swing. Um, not just that, because here’s the thing your driver’s gonna feel a lot different than your putter. So you gotta get them all dialed in, not just one, and it takes some work, don’t get me wrong. But here’s the thing is it hard work? Absolutely not. It’s actually pretty easy. You know you’re not going out and breaking sweat and suffering when you’re doing it, it’s just, it’s easy work, but you just got to get the work done. 0:28:06 – Jeff PelizzaroSo you mentioned there’s different levels of this and obviously we start at the beginning level and most people have tried to go and visualize, right, I think we’ve all been there and I would say that one of the big dilemmas that people come into is well, am I visualizing this shot or am I visualizing internally what my body’s trying to do? And I know we’ve had, you know, carl and Gary on the show and they talk a lot about well, does the shot create the swing? Does the swing create the shot? Is it internal focus? Is it external focus? Bo, I’m going to leave this one to you. How do we differentiate where that focus is? Is it both? Is one helping to foster the other? And what direction do you give people when they’re kind of stuck between, I don’t know, am I working on me or am I working on what that shot looks like? 0:28:55 – Bo WatsonYeah, it’s a fantastic question and it really depends on where the player is and their journey and where they’re at in the system. So, like one thing that we always want to get a player to is ultimately what we call caveman golf. We know our best performances are going to come from caveman golf. So what does that look like? It’s C target, c ball, hit ball. That would be basically a caveman’s approach to playing golf at a high level. And you know what’s funny Every time I have a conversation with a golfer in our community, you know the common denominator I always hear from every single one of them when they tell me like their best round was, or their lifetime low ground. The common denominator across every single one of them was I was in a zone, I was in a close state. Okay, let’s go down a little bit deeper. Did you have swing thoughts throughout the round? You know what every single one of them said no, I did not. And then I go and press a little bit deeper. I’ll say what was your main focus, my target? And that’s why, like, one of the most important things that people can write down and always remember is where your attention goes energy flows. And there are so many studies out there in multiple different sports that have backed up this idea that even though your technique could be off, for an example, but if you intuitively know that this is your target, your body will compensate in a way to get a ball, whatever sport it is, from point a to point b, and I mean they’ve done it in so many different studies and so many different sports. But it’s true for golf too, which is why, like, yes, working in a swing is important. You’ll never hear me say that technique is not important. It is um. But at the same time, there’s got to be a healthy balance and unfortunately and I think this is what will help a lot of people listening to us and give me a little bit more context behind why what we’re teaching is so powerful is because, unfortunately, over the last 50, 60 years, this game has gotten this unhealthy pursuit of the search for the perfect swing, and that’s not the answer. You will never hear a major champion in a press conference after they just won a major championship, come back and say you know, today I won because I was able to hit my P3 position extremely well and then I was able to get my wrist flexion at 22 degrees at the moment of contact. And then I had my weight pressure, you know, with ground reaction forces and getting everything to move back into my left heel, and that’s where I had to snap and get the left lead leg. No, you never hear a major champion say that. What do they say? They said I was really dialed in, I could see my shot clearly today. And what do they say? They said I was really dialed in, I could see my shot clearly today, and it’s all those things. Even when you look at basketball, for example, you’ll never hear you know, kobe Bryant a late Kobe say yeah, I was, uh, I was able to get my knees bent at 24 degrees at the moment of my release and then I felt my pressure go back to my right heel when I actually landed and I knew that was my way of making shots. No, it’s always like I saw the shot and anybody that’s ever shot basketball, you know that if you think about mechanics, you’ll be looking at the backboard or much less at the rim at all, but when you shoot your best, it’s always because you had a clear vision of the arc, of the approach, of the ball going into the hoop and where you want it to go in at a certain Unfortunately. Yes, it is the hardest sport in the world, which is why I had to argue with Shannon early on when we were at dinner that night and why I said this couldn’t work. But what’s fascinating is over the last two years I’ve been on a lot of research and so to kind of give context to everything we’re doing, for those of you that are very scientific-minded and still skeptical, this is a system that is a blend of classical conditioning and what’s called operant conditioning. So it is psych mesmerizing. It is blending the custom trigger with the CPR kinesthetic, mental imagery. There you go. Those are pieces. But I want to go back to why this game has gotten away from its roots when you look at the best players in the game Sam Snead, tiger Woods, phil Mickelson, ben Hogan and then Jack Nicklaus and Mickey Wright on the LPGA Tour side of things. But I want to just focus on these four players just for a second. Sam Snead, ben Hogan they both shared the same coach. Who was that coach? Henry Pickard, jack Nicklaus first childhood coach, his name was Jack Rowe. Now Mickey Wright worked with a coach named Harry Pressler. Those were the three coaches Harry Pressler, henry Picker, jack Routt, who was all three of their coaches’ mentor. It was nameless Alex Morrison. Now who is this Alex Morrison guy? When you do research you find out this Alex Morrison guy was actually way ahead of his time and, honestly, we hope our work is actually paying a tribute to him, because he was actually the godfather of the one that wrote the book in 1940 called Better Golf Without Practice and, if I’m not mistaken, harvey Pinnock said Alex Morrison was one of the absolute best swings he’d ever seen in person. And that’s amazing when you consider all the people that he’s been around right Now. Here’s the thing about Alex Morrison. In that book, better Golf Without Practice, there was a comedian. He tells the story of a comedian, lou Lohr, and this guy could not break 90 to save his life. So everybody that’s listening, you’re struggling to break 100, you’re struggling to break 90. Well, you may want to pay attention to this part right here, because Lou Lohr tried everything under the sun, could not break 90 to save his life. And finally comes Alex Morrison and he said hey, I need help. What does Alex do? The total opposite of what everybody else does in this game. He didn’t go get training aids, he didn’t go and do full. You know so many hours of physical practice and do lessons physically on the range. Now what does Alex do? He sets them down in a chair and over the next two weeks all they do is basically kinesthetic mental imagery of him rehearsing what out of the system is called the five Morrison swing keys. That’s all they did, plus while actually playing around in his mind. Now what’s interesting is Lou Lord goes out his first round back and he actually shoots 87. Now here’s what’s crazy about that. Let’s go back to Sam Snead, those of you that are Bob Rotello fans, and Jeff. I don’t know if you’ve read Bob Rotello books. Did you ever read the Golfer’s Mind, that particular book? 0:35:07 – Jeff PelizzaroI don’t know if I read that one. I read Golf is Not a Game of Perfect and a couple of the other ones. Yeah. 0:35:14 – Bo WatsonYeah. So in the Golfer’s’s mind book, in chapter two. This is so fascinating to me. Bob Rotella is giving a seminar that can make or break his career and he details it pretty, pretty bluntly, so to speak, because he said if Sam Snead gets up and says this guy’s a crook, you shouldn’t listen to him. Bob Rotello’s career would have ended right then and there in the game of golf. That’s what was on the line for him. Now he is nervous because Sam Snead does stand up after he gives his talk, but what comes out of Sam’s mouth was actually shocking to everybody in the room. Sam says we need to listen to this young man because he has a lot of truth of what he just shared, and what was interesting is what sam shares. Next he said the reason why I was so successful in my career was because the night before I would play my rounds, I would visualize it and do mental imagery of what I would see, my perfect shots. For the next day’s round, he said, I’d fall asleep between like hole 10 and 14, wake up next day, feel, go through my normal routine and I go and play a great round. And what’s so crazy about that is that he’s tied with Tiger with the all-time PGA Tour wins. Now, why did I say Tiger? Tiger won an early 2000s clinic and it’s also in his book. Tiger shared something that was really, really interesting and it’s the key to why he has made some of the most iconic putts on Sunday final round in majors and some of these events that he’s won over the course of his career. He said on the outside it looks like I’m calm and collected, but on the inside I’m extremely nervous, like when the pressure’s on. Now we would think that would be totally, you know, untrue, right? But this is what Tiger said. And he said when I’m nervous, when I’m going through these uh putts, this is what I do, and he’s walking everybody through it. And he said when I’m standing to the side of the ball, I’ll look, and then what I’m doing is I’m taking a picture. So if you go back to those old like polaroids, you know those little click pictures, right, the cameras, and that’s what he’s doing. And he’s like I’m looking, I’m taking a picture, and then I get up over the ball, I’ll take another look, I’ll take a picture. And then he said I’ll take one final look, I’ll take a picture, and then he’ll say all right, tiger, let’s putt to the pitcher, like Papa used to say. And that’s what is basically. I mean, that’s mental imagery right there and that’s a big key of why he’s made some of the most amazing putts over the course of his career. 0:37:36 – Jeff PelizzaroThat’s unbelievable. Let’s take a second to thank our sponsors over at First Form, and this week I want to highlight their Formula One post-workout protein shake. I use this thing pretty much every day after my workouts because, let’s face it, being here in the gym working all the time with clients putting on a podcast, it can sometimes be tough to get my protein in on a regular basis, and so I know that with the post-workout shake the Formula One, first of all, it’s fast acting. So right after your workout is a great time to get your protein in to help build your muscles, get yourself stronger and repair what you’ve done in the gym, but also, if you don’t know if you’re going to be able to get your protein in in your regular meals, it’s just a great way to make sure that you’re supplementing and hitting those marks. So be sure to go over to 1stPhorm.com forward slash 18STRONG to get your First Form Formula One protein shake, and everyone that enters through that link is going to be put into a drawing every single month for free First Form products. So again, go over to 1stPhorm.com forward slash 18strong. You know you talked about how with the game of golf being different than other sports and you know we don’t focus on the techniques when we’re basketball players and, shannon, I know you have a background in soccer. I played a lot of soccer growing up and I always go back to that. Or even baseball, like you never think about. If you get hit a ground ball and you’re at shortstop, what does it take to throw the ball to first base right versus if you were in center field and still had to throw it a second base? Like you’re never making calculations in your head, or I always find it amazing that if, even if I’m going out and messing around with my son’s soccer team and helping coach and I hit a pass and I put it right to a kid’s foot, that’s like running down the line. I’m like, how do I still know how to do that? Don’t get me wrong, it doesn’t happen all the time, but you do that and you’re like why is golf not like that for most of us? But you’re saying that that’s really what you’re teaching it to be by implementing a lot of these techniques and these tactics of mentally rehearsing. Shannon, what does it look like when we’re actually on the golf course? So we’ve talked a little bit about. You know, like some of the training off the course but Bo mentioned the custom trigger earlier and I know that you know when we’re on the course, how do we then take some of this and what does it look like when we’re physically implementing day of game day? You know you’re standing on the tee box. 0:40:00 – Shannon ShuskeySo yeah, and so, um, standing on the tee box first, there, there’s several types of imagery that you do. Um, what I mean is is one is you want to see your shot pattern, how it’s going to go, the trajectory and stuff like that, but then you want to do your mental imagery before you know. Matter of fact, jason I believe it’s Jason day. He was notorious back when he was a PGA champion that, I mean, it was obvious. He’s there holding his club, he got his eyes shut and he’s going through his mental imagery, and so that’s one of the things that you do, because what it does is it’s teaching your body to react to it. Matter of fact, phil Mickelson I love in the interview that he was talking about, he makes it reactionary to when he makes the shot surrender in his brain. Like if you look at him and he’s staring off off and it looks like he’s in la-la land. That’s what he’s doing. He’s doing mental imagery making that shot surrender. So then when he’s confident and committed, he reacts to it, and then that’s when he steps into the play ball and then he goes and plays. That’s the important part. When you’re, when you’re going through your shots, is seeing that, and here’s a part. Here’s a thing you have to always vision the perfect shot. You don’t want to envision a bad shot, because what you’re doing is you are programming your brain and wiring your brain to perform negatively. A great example is Jacqueline Hernandez. She was in the Sochi Olympics. She was a downhill snowboard cross racer. And what was happening and you can actually look this up in the New York Times there was an article that was written because there was going around talking about mental imagery. Everybody’s doing mental imagery and all this stuff. However, when they got to her, she said that she kept seeing herself fall in this particular turn over and over again. And then what happens is she’s setting herself up as like a self-fulfilling prophecy. But here’s the thing she’s training her mind and body to react that way, going into that turn when she goes down. So here she is she’s going down, she’s making it, she’s taking her turn going down the hill and as she gets to that turn, guess what? Her muscles start reacting the way that she’s programmed it to do so many times before going into it. Where what happens is she starts feeling shaky. She starts oh no, here’s that turn. Mentally, she’s dreading going into that turn because she’s done it so many times negatively and she’s fallen. Well then, unfortunately, the hate that this happened. She actually fell and then she actually got knocked unconscious and had to carry her off because of it. Now that is like an extreme example of it. But just think in golf. It’s different. You’re shaking the ball, you’re topping the ball, you’re doing this. You know what I’m saying. So you want to actually visualize the perfect shot, but here’s the thing you can visualize coming out of a bad situation, going into a good situation. What, what? So this is the thing like when you’re going doing you know, for all the listeners going through your mental imagery. Don’t just think about you’re hitting the perfect shot off the perfect line every single time. No, you know you. Your limitation is in your imagination. What kind of lie are you in? Are you in a bad rut, deep grass? Are you hitting it off of near a root or something like that? You know what I’m saying, where there’s all these things that can actually take place. But then you’re actually performing the shot perfectly, seeing the shot shape and also as it reedmen, as in reading it. That’s the other thing too is like, when you like, answer your question again coming up, visualize the perfect shot where it goes to the, to the exact place where you want it to go every single time. And then that way, when you’re stepping in number one, you’re going to be a lot more committed, you’re going to be a lot more confident going into your shot. But then you got to trust your athleticism when it comes to when you address the ball that’s what Bo was talking about. Caveman golf, that’s what it is, it’s the less thoughts that’s going in your brain and literally trust your athleticism to pull off that shot that you just visualized. 0:44:25 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, I’m picturing standing on a tee box and we’ve all got a hole that we kind of dread, or, you know, we’ve hit a couple bad shots and we’ve got these, these mental images of you know letting that ball fly out to the right and drop into the water or whatnot. And you guys talk about controlling that image and you warn that you know you have to. You have to pay attention to what image you’re putting in. What if we find ourselves stuck on that though, Like we are, we know, like, okay, the second hole at Boone Valley has water on the right. That second shot is daunting and I’ve seen my ball go in there a couple of times, right. So how do we stop perseverating on that image and break ourselves out of that chain, Even though you know, okay, you’re staying over the wall, All right, I think we all say don’t go in the water, don’t go in the water, and so it’s, you know, focus on putting it on the green. But how do we really break that? And I know that’s not an easy question to answer right here. 0:45:25 – Bo WatsonNo, that’s where we have to visit with two things. One, we have to mind map the negative habit, so like when we see a pattern. This is why journaling is so powerful and it’s one of the biggest reasons why we’ve seen a college team that we work with that was outside of the top 50 and now trending into the top 20. And, honestly, if we keep on the same path you know they were averaging over 305 as a team in the fall. Now they’re averaging 284 and they just set the third lowest scoring average in school history on their most recent tournament. So we’re trending in the right direction. But I’m going to tell you the biggest reason why that’s been possible is because of journaling and being very mindful to these details, because when, when we start seeing those kinds of negative, how to lose? Like you said, when we see shots over and over on this one particular hole going to water, we have to first become aware of what behavior and what thoughts are entering our minds when that’s happening. So when we shot a spotlight on what’s going on that triggers it, we can identify the old behavior and autopilot behavior that people just seem to. For whatever reason, we just keep doing the same thing over and over again, and that’s why we like to have these hard conversations. Once we identify there’s a negative habit loop, there is, for an example, let’s say, on that hole you hit it in the water like five times out of the last seven rounds and what we identify is you tense up and you’re trying to control your swing right. There’s always a reward value in our brain where whenever we do some type of behavior, there’s some type of reward for it. Even if you have a very low success rate, your brain will always take that part. Like that one time, four rounds prior, where you are still tense and you still try to control your swing, but yet you hit it 10 yards in from the water’s edge, but you’re safe, right. You will still keep doing that over and over and over again until finally you come to grips with. I like to ask this question to our players hey, out of the last 10 times you do this, what’s your success rate? And what they’ll come back and tell us is like 10%, 15%. I’ll say, okay, now we go deeper in this in the book. But that’s where we kind of teach this interest-curiosity approach that we want to take, and there’s a lot of research to back this up. That’s really, really cool. But when we take that approach where it literally updates reward value in our brain, so to speak Dr Rick Judson talks about this in his anxiety book it’s an amazing resource for that. But what we’ve done is we’ve kind of taken that and we applied it to the game of golf and we show it how it can be even more practical for this and that’s what we’re doing with our players is now we’re able to go. That’s interesting. I’m about to engage in this behavior that only has about a 15% success rate and what it does it gives you permission to go. Wait, that doesn’t make sense. Why would I do this? And then what we can do is is okay, let’s choose a better path. And that’s where the ball reset, which is in the very next chapter in a book where we go deep on that, and what that does is it literally I’ll help shannon’s uh way to explain it but it literally becomes a washing machine, so to speak, for the brain to do a hard reset. So we can take a player from a red light state. We can go deep into this if we need to, but we can take a player from a red light state. We can go deep into this if we need to, but we’re going to take a player from a red light state in the brain where there’s so many faults happening right after another. So just give a quick understanding of what the red light state is. You know, basically your brain has multiple different wave activity going on in the brain. So, like when there’s a lot of conscious level fault, your brain can basically become inflamed, so to speak, on some of these brain scans and it’s so fascinating because whenever we miss, like a three-foot putt or something like that, we got so many negative thoughts happening right after another after another. So just think of it that there’s a lot of activity going on, but when we do a ball reset, we can get a player back to green light state within about 10 seconds. That is about the equivalent of them doing 20 minutes of meditation or 20 minutes of yoga in the brain. Now that’s powerful because what we’re doing is we’re resetting the brain, so to speak, back to a green light state where they can process things. And you know you hear people say this all the time. You know you have what’s called a fight or flight response. You know some people call it the alligator brain, and so it’s like you know, now there’s a threat and the whole prefrontal cortex kind of goes offline, so to speak. And what this reset is doing is bringing on the parts of the brain that actually can function and do things at a normal level, so to speak. And that’s what we’re doing is we’re taking them through a process where we do the hard reset, getting back to a green light state. Then we’re falling out of power talk, and then on top of that, we’re having them relive an amazing shot in the past in a similar situation. And when they go through it in that process, they’re now excited when they get to the last L of the ball reset and look forward, and they’re excited to play this next shot. Now I’ll give you an example, and this is why Sam Snead was so dang good. Not many people know about this story, but we cover it in a book and I’ll share it for everybody here on this podcast. This is really cool. Those of you that struggle with anxiety, those of you that struggle with nervousness, listen to this. Sam Snead. He is in 1936, the week before he’s going to play in his PGA Tour debut tournament at the Greenbrier. Now he’s playing at the Greenbrier the week before. Now he’s playing with Greenbrier the week before. The head pro organizes an exhibition match. It’s got two former US amateur champions, one former US Open winner, now Sam Snead’s a rookie. Now word gets out there are so many people coming to watch this match and so there is a ton of people that’s surrounding the first tee Sam’s turn. Sam gets up. He is so nervous he is having to use both hands to steady the ball on the tee. Like can you imagine? Like that’s basically on the verge of a panic attack, if we’re being completely honest. Right, so he is trying to steady the ball on the tee with both hands. That’s how bad he was shaking. Now he collects himself, he walks back Probably lucky that he actually was able to walk back in that situation. But he’s standing behind the ball and what he does is he closes his eyes, and what he does is he then relives all of his amazing shots in the past on that same hole. He gets up, goes through his routine, hits the shot the crowd gasps. And when he looks and sees his ball flying, hits the shot, the crowd gasps. And when he looks and sees his ball flying through the air, not only is he outdriving his playing opponents by about 20 yards, but he hits it about 15 yards further than all of his most successful drives that he had hit on that hole in the past. Now wait a second. How does a guy go from on the verge of a panic attack to then hitting his most successful drive ever on the same hole? It was because what he did was doing mental imagery and that’s why it’s such a major piece for a ball reset in the first L when we do a look back that right there. We just had a conversation with one of our college players just yesterday. She had a scoring average of 77 from her first two seasons and right now she just threw the first three tournaments in this spring season. She’s averaging a 72.8. She said the ball reset has blown her secret weapon and it is one of the biggest, most powerful tools that people need that have been able to get people out of these negative habit loops and actually get them to a place where they can attack these things head-on wow. 0:52:31 – Jeff PelizzaroYou talk about how you know he he was able to relax and saw his ball go so much further. I remember you guys talking in the book about how so much of this is first of all changing your state to be in a more relaxed state, but then also helping to produce a better rhythm and tempo in your swing. And I, uh and that’s really where a lot of the extra distance and power comes from. We tend to get so focused on trying to muscle through our golf swing, trying to hit a ball further. But I think we’ve all experienced that relaxed swing that just you’re like whoa, how did that swing produce that effect? And I’ve even been doing a lot of research lately just on the body and fascia and how the tempo and the way that our body reacts with contraction versus relaxation and how those things play together with the rhythm. So it’s like so many things that you guys talk about, and then even the physical components from a training side of things, how they all mesh together, and it’s just fascinating to me things how they all mesh together and it’s just fascinating to me. One thing that I heard you guys talk about on Carl’s podcast was that along with your book, you have a workbook, and I think that that’s important to mention, because so many of us have read books along the lines of what we’re trying to do here, but we tend to read the books and then go on to the next book and go on to the next book. And so, shannon, if you could tell us a little bit about, kind of, the whole structure of your program and why the workbook was so essential to this piece and for people really getting results, I like to say this Our book will put your game on steroids, so to speak mental steroids. 0:54:17 – Shannon ShuskeyBut the workbook will put the book on steroids Because here’s the thing you’re going to learn everything a lot faster, first and foremost. But then also, we have activations that are in the workbook, because I mean, goodness, our book would be like a novel, would be huge, if we put everything in there, then downloads and everything like that. That’s in the workbook. And so we have certain activations like going out, doing certain things, playing, um, uh, we also give them like a schedule, it’s in the workbook. Like, for example, you’re like. We also give them like a schedule, it’s in the workbook. Like, for example, you’re like this mental energy, what, where do I start? What do I do? What are the guidelines? You know what am I working on? And here’s the thing we get. We set them, we set everybody up to for success. For example, like Bo mentioned, about the college coach you know I played soccer in college. About the college coach you know I played soccer in college. Um, I would be extremely let down if my soccer coach did not have a plan. And the same thing on speed skating. You know, with speed skating, that if my coach didn’t have a a thought, well thought out process on what I should be doing now and then not just now, but two months from now and in order for me to peak or to get to a certain level, and stuff like so then what we’ve done is we actually created schedules and things like that in there. All right, what are you working on? What do you need to work on? And then you know you, you can’t neglect any golf club. For example, we actually had one of the one of our tour players that we’re working with. Um, you know, after about two months, the the putting started struggling was because they neglected putting. You can’t, you can’t neglect anything, any part of the game, and so you basically got to do maintenance work, going through and doing it. But we, we show you, like, a lot of that stuff that’s in the workbook as well, going in there. And and here’s the other thing too um, I’ve noticed, like when it, when it comes to certain, uh, certain books, that you can go out, somebody will create a workbook that goes with it, right, and it’s like oh man, I’m gonna get that, there’s a workbook that goes with it. And then you look at it you’re like, wow, that’s not even by the author, right, right and then, and there’s, there’s no depth to it whatsoever. So we actually created a deeper depth so we can learn it faster. But then you, you, it’s, you’re, you’re becoming what the book is wanting you to be and you’re walking in your true identity awesome well, anything to add to that? 0:56:50 – Jeff Pelizzarolooked like you were. 0:56:51 – Bo WatsonYou wanted to add a little something that that last statement right there, is like the nail on the head because you are becoming the book at that point. And that is the main purpose behind why we created the workbook that way. They have something that is practical and that that’s always been all right. Some context there me personally and what I’ve seen a lot of other golfers complain about, and when it comes through the mental side of the game and these mental books that are out there and don’t get me wrong, like there’s a lot of good things out there, but one of the biggest comedy denominators I kept seeing over and over and over again and it was also true of me is that it’s very high philosophical, so to speak, but yet there’s no like practical, like ABC step one, two, three, and when it came to applying these things, that’s why you know when we created the book and then, more importantly, the workbook, it is like hey, here, start here, do this, do this, do this, and that way it’s like a clear path. But even better, you can actually measure Are you actually getting better? Because we have a business test that will actually measure your ability to visualize how good is your mental imagery, and we’ve taken people that have had like a low score of 24 and get that increase all the way up to as high as like 72, 73 over just like a couple months. And so that part is exciting, because now we have something that can actually measure are you getting better at the mental side of the game? And so that’s a big piece to it. 0:58:15 – Shannon ShuskeyYeah, we also have like an anxiety test. Who would have thunk it? You know, when it comes to golf, you know what I mean. Like you know, like you had mentioned, like you got this hole that you dread or you got a tournament coming up, you know how do you change the nervous to exciting, but then you know what is your gauge that you’re going by. In other words, how are you going to do a check engine, like check for your brain, and then so we have an anxiety test. We’ve got a lot of self-evaluations that are in there that’s not in the book as well to where you can kind of see, if you’re transparent with yourself, it’s going to give you a much better performance because you know where to start, you know what I mean, and so it kind of gives you that. It kind of puts you in the starting blocks, ready for you to take off. 0:59:01 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, and you guys do have quite a few downloads in the book too that I’m sure are part of the workbook as well. If they don’t have the workbook that they can go and do some of those things. Awesome, Bo. Where can they go find? 0:59:16 – Bo Watsonwhat’s the best place for them to find the book and everything that you guys are doing? Yeah, the best place it just goes simply to the website. It’s indesignsecretscom. So you just go to indesignsecretscom and what’s pretty cool is we created a really special offer. They can also get the book on Amazon and they can do that, and you go get a full price of $24.95 on Amazon. But if you get it through our website, it’s actually a personalized, autographed version of the book from both Shannon and I and we’re basically buying a book for you. All you have to do is just pay shipping and handling and it’s only $9.95 for that and we will send it out personalized, signed copy and there’s a couple other bonuses there too. So, yeah, you can get the book at either location, but if you go to our website, it’s onthezonessecretscom. 0:59:56 – Jeff PelizzaroOkay, awesome, and we’ll make sure that all that’s linked up in the show notes and everything, fellas, we could. I mean, there’s so much in this book. Obviously, people are going to want to go and grab this and dig in a lot more after our conversation. There’s so many different avenues we could go down here, but unfortunately we don’t have the time to do that, so we’re going to finish up with the, the questions we ask everybody that comes on the show. Have a little fun with you, fellas. 1:00:23 – Shannon ShuskeyUm, shannon, I’ll throw this one out to you first, caddy shack or happy gilmore. Oh man, that’s tough. I would say I’m probably happy g Gilmore just because of that. You know, I’ve dealt with some of that stuff in the middle aspect. I thought you know we can overcome them. 1:00:42 – Jeff PelizzaroHow about? 1:00:44 – Bo Watsonyou Bo? Yeah, I thought about that. It’s definitely happy, gilmore, although it’s such a close tie. It’s just so funny, it is funny. 1:00:53 – Jeff PelizzaroAll right, bo, if you could pick a walk-up song to the first tee box. What are you picking? 1:00:57 – Bo WatsonYou know, I still cannot figure out the name of the song, but it’s the. It’s the most popular Darude Sandstorm, that’s what it was. 1:01:08 – Jeff PelizzaroOkay, shannon. 1:01:11 – Shannon ShuskeySo it’s by a Christian rap artist. His name is Andy Mineo, it’s called you Can’t Stop Me. I like the. And then he also had one that actually has been in a lot of commercials and it’s called Coming In Hot, okay, awesome. 1:01:28 – Jeff PelizzaroAll right, shannon, what’s a book that you would recommend to the listeners? It doesn’t have to be golf, it doesn’t have to be anything related to what we’ve even talked about today, but something that means a lot to you, that you tend to share with people, that has made a big difference in your life. 1:01:45 – Shannon ShuskeyI would say the Power of One More by Ed Milet, just because it literally pushes you to a nother level in every single area of your life. You know um very similar. I would say like that’s, that’s what our book does as well. As far as like um, because you can apply what we teach in our book to everyday life, um, and actually champion um every area of your life as well. 1:02:14 – Jeff PelizzaroFantastic. 1:02:15 – Bo WatsonBeau. Well, besides God’s word, it would be probably Dale Carnegie how to Win Friends and Influence People, because that is an all-time classic and I love it because it just kind of expands on what it truly means to understand people and serve them, and I love that aspect of it. 1:02:38 – Jeff PelizzaroOne of the most popular recommended books we’ve had on the show so far. No All right, bo, if you could pick a dream foursome to go play golf with. Who are you picking and what’s your bucket list course that you would want to take him to? 1:02:53 – Bo WatsonWell, some of these guys would obviously be dead, but it would be Bobby Jones and one. It would have to be Alex Morrison and then probably Tiger, so I’d be the foursome. And then the course we go to, that’s not St Andrews or Augusta, would be the new, most talked about course right now in the Bahamas or the Caribbean, st Lucia, whatever it’s called. Can I go to St Lucia, play hardy golf? 1:03:21 – Jeff PelizzaroOkay, yeah, yeah, that’s a. That’s a good little trip. 1:03:26 – Shannon ShuskeyYes, okay, yeah, yeah, that’s a good little trip, yeah, so my dream would be to walk with Bo and watch them play, because when it comes to golf, left-handed, right-handed, it don’t matter, it’s like I’ve got a third foot or something you know. 1:03:42 – Jeff PelizzaroThat’s awesome. Well, I’m going to throw it back to you, though. Let’s say you just get to walk with the foursome. I want to hear your foursome that you’re picking, or three other guys that you would like to walk and just hang with. 1:03:55 – Shannon ShuskeyYeah, I would say Phil Mickelson, just because of his history. It took him 14 years before he won a major and now he’s actually been very transparent more about his game and what he’s done. Um, and then obviously, uh, tiger, um as well, but um, yeah, those would be the two. And then, um, I would, I would, I’d have go, but Bo will go with me so he can teach me more. 1:04:27 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, Awesome. What’s a social media account that both of you guys follow? You don’t have to both follow the same account, but one from each of you. That, and again, doesn’t have to be anything related to golf or anything we talked about that you just find fascinating and think the audience would benefit from checking it out. 1:04:45 – Bo WatsonBo All right, I got to say two. It’s going to be Ed Milet and Dr Andrew Huberman. 1:04:51 – Jeff PelizzaroAwesome. 1:04:52 – Bo WatsonBoth favorites of the show here. 1:04:54 – Jeff PelizzaroOnly one has been on the podcast, but would love to get Huberman on one of these days. How about you, Shannon? 1:05:00 – Shannon ShuskeyYeah, well, definitely Andrew Huberman, for sure. Matter of fact, a lot of our studies came from his. You know that’s in our book, that came out of Stanford and basically some of the stuff like even like we talked about mental imagery, just the basics of mental imagery just kind of getting back onto that and getting at least 50 reps in, you know no longer than 20 seconds you know that came from studies out of Stanford and stuff like that. But definitely when it comes to that, yeah, I would say by Ed Matalette and Andrew Huberman. 1:05:40 – Jeff PelizzaroAll right. Last one, and Shannon, I’m still going to throw this at you, even though you said you’re not much of a golfer yourself what’s the best piece of golf advice that you’ve ever been given, shannon, you, I’ll have you go first trust it saved it and did that come from Bo? Yes, I’ve had a yes, how about you, bill? 1:06:10 – Bo WatsonYou know, I really believe the best golf advice and this is going to help everybody on here is surrender the shot before you play it, love it. Surrender your shot. So the outcome of the shot, surrender it. No matter what happens, good or bad, before you play it, man, you can just move forward much faster fantastic fellas I’d have to agree 100. 1:06:32 – Shannon ShuskeyThat’s one, one of the things this, this that we’ve seen, is like. If you, if you, see golf as a game of mistakes, it makes it easier to you, know, you know, to surrender the outcome before you even walk into your shot. 1:06:49 – Jeff PelizzaroWell, fellas, this has been fantastic. I’m really excited for the 18STRONG Crew to dig into your work. I know that you guys are on a mission to help 100,000 golfers shoot their lifetime low, so hopefully a lot of the 18STRONG Crew can be a part of those 100,000 golfers. Any last pieces that you want to share with us before we let you go, bo? 1:07:13 – Bo WatsonThe biggest thing I can say is, when you look at the game of golf, a lot of people say game of golf is 90% mental and 10% fiscal. But here’s the thing why is it that everybody is spending 100% of their time on 10% of the game? Now I understand different people like, say, beginners. It might be more like a 60-40 ratio, it could be 70-30. But the problem that I’ve seen over the last 40, 50 years is that so many people are going after technique, technique, technique, and then they feel like once they get to a point where their technique’s okay, then they start working on the mental game. It’s already too late. And I’ll just say this really quick there was a beginner golf study that they did that measured an approach shot, and what was so fascinating is that they found that with the three groups, one did physical and mental imagery, one did physical practice, the other one did something totally unrelated. What was fascinating was that the group that did physical and mental imagery outperformed the one that did physical, and the totally unrelated obviously didn’t even have any benefit whatsoever. But what that goes to prove is that if you put mental work on your game on the back burner, it’s going to hurt you like down the road, and so you gotta gotta get ahead of it, and that’s one of the big reasons why we wrote the book, and so people can actually see a breakthrough very quickly. 1:08:49 – Jeff PelizzaroHow about? 1:08:49 – Shannon Shuskeyyou, shannon? Yeah, so actually that’s a loaded question. I love it. It’s not what’s happening around you, it’s not what’s happening to you, it’s what’s happening on the inside of you. It’s how we respond to certain events. You know how we actually cause. You know your emotions can change your moods. You know your movement can change your emotions and stuff like that. And so I think that’s a huge game changer and to realize that it’s I like to say it like this it’s our response ability. It’s our ability to be able to respond to certain events that can take it, to take our life to a whole other level, not just our game, but knowing that it’s not what’s happening around you, it’s not what’s happening to you, it’s what’s happening on the inside of you and it’s how you respond to those things that actually change it. It’s not thoughts determine what you want, actions determine what you get, but it’s your behavior that can actually change it. It’s not thoughts determine what you want, actions determine what you get, but it’s your behavior that can change your future and it’s how we act, in that you know decisions determine your destiny, you know, and your focus can determine your future. 1:10:00 – Jeff PelizzaroThat’s so good. I’ve never heard it put like that response, response ability. It’s just, it’s perfect. It’s perfect. All right, fellas, can’t thank you enough for the time and really look forward to, first of all, seeing you guys accomplish this goal of a hundred thousand golfers and beyond. Um and just. I’m excited to put this into my own practice, my own game, and shoot my lifetime low as well. So thank you for coming on to both of you guys. 1:10:25 – Bo WatsonAbsolutely. Thanks for having us, Jeff. 1:10:27 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, thanks for listening to the 18STRONG Podcast and if you found this episode helpful, don’t forget to share it with your friends. And, of course, go follow us over on Instagram at 18STRONG. Thanks again. We’ll catch up with you next week. Train hard, practice smart and play better golf.

Guest: Ryan Degale (Orthopedic Spine Specialist, Founder of Golf and Body)Host: Jeff PelizzaroEpisode Number: 370Podcast: The 18STRONG PodcastPartners: Linksoul, 1stPhorm Summary Listen in as Ryan DeGale, an orthopedic spine specialist with a 17-year tenure in strength and conditioning, shares his wealth of knowledge on maintaining spine health, specially tailored for golfers. Our discussion ventures into the realm of practical self-care for the back, steering clear of common misconceptions about back surgery and providing a rich understanding of spinal anatomy and physiology. For those passionate about golf, Ryan’s insights on specific exercises, showcased on his Instagram, offer a path to a pain-free golfing experience, reinforcing the importance of proactive measures over reactive ones. In our engaging conversation, Ryan sheds light on the intricacies of the body’s supportive systems, such as ligaments, tendons, and fascia. He details the advantages of the ELDOA method over traditional inversion tables, emphasizing how these tissues play a pivotal role in posture, injury prevention, and overall athletic performance. We also examine the overlooked but crucial concept of fascia in body mechanics, highlighting how proper technique in physical therapy and massage is vital for maintaining the health of these tissues. For competitive golfers, Ryan discusses the necessity of a tailored fitness routine, underscoring the potential pitfalls of long-distance cardio and the benefits of interval training and personalized core workouts. Wrapping up our rich dialogue, Ryan brings his clinical nutritionist expertise to the table, examining the impact of dietary choices on health and the controversial food pyramid. He offers a unique perspective on how nutrition intersects with the culture and competitive dynamics of golf. Join us for this episode as we traverse a broad spectrum of topics, from spinal health and body mechanics to the nuances of training for competitive golf and the intersection of modern medicine with nutrition, all aimed at enhancing performance and well-being both on and off the golf course. Ryan Degale’s Background Born in Barbados, Ryan is a 36-year-old strength coach with 17 years of experience in the field. For the past 12 years, he has trained under Guy Voyer DO, specializing in orthopedics and body motion. With over 20 years of experience in playing golf, Ryan works with competitive players and is the proud owner of Golf and Body. His mission is to help golfers play pain-free golf.  Main Topics (00:04) Masterclass on Golf Body Spine Health Orthopedic spine specialist Ryan DeGale shares practical approaches to back care and dispels misconceptions about back surgery for golfers. (12:31) Unlocking the Body’s Intelligent Systems ELDOA method focuses on end-range motion and creating space in the spine, training supportive tissues, and preventing injuries in daily life and sports. (23:01) Preventing Back Pain in Golf Nature’s strategies for preventing and managing back pain, including seat warmers, stationary bikes, and active reinforcement for muscular imbalances. (29:00) Discussion on Golf Swing and Posture Eyes, fascial tension, and spinal health in golf, emphasizing holistic approach and collaboration with experts for enhanced performance. (36:59) Training Essentials for Competitive Golfers Personalized fitness routines, mobility, interval training, targeted core exercises, and individual goals are crucial for competitive amateur golfers. (47:48) Importance of Fascia in Body Mechanics Understanding fascia and proper technique in physical therapy and massage, with insights from experts and resources for further learning. (55:52) Modern Medicine, Golf, and Nutrition Comparing historical diets to modern processed food, dental health, celebrity golf foursome, inclusivity in golf, and competitive dynamics of golf tours. Follow Ryan Degale Instagram: @golf_body_mia Links Mentioned @Hormozi Episode Partners: LINKSOUL: For your 20% discount on LINKSOUL gear, go to 18strong.com/linksoul or click the logo above. 1st Phorm: Try any of the 1st Phorm products with FREE SHIPPING, go to 1stphorm.com/18strong.com (By using this link, you will be entered into our Monthly 1st Phorm Giveaway!) More Cool Stuff to Check Out: To continue the conversation and ask any questions you may have, head over to the 18STRONG Movement group on Facebook. 18STRONG Pro Shop (Get your 18STRONG gear!) 18STRONG Resources (All of the cool stuff we recommend: products, books, golf stuff, etc – and discount codes for the 18STRONG Crew) Want the full episode transcript? (click the “+” ????????) 0:00:04 – Jeff PelizzaroThe 18STRONG Podcast, episode Number 270 with Ryan DeGale from Golf Body. Thanks out guys. Welcome back to the 18STRONG Podcast, where we’re here to help you build a stronger game, because we believe every golfer deserves to play better, longer, and this episode with Ryan DeGale from Golf Body is exactly about that Playing golf for as long as you possibly can. Ryan is the owner and founder of Golf Body down in Miami and he is an orthopedic spine specialist. His background is in strength and conditioning, but over the past 17 years has really become an expert in the spine, especially working with golfers. So I like to think of this as being a bit of a master class for especially those golfers that are out there, like yourself, possibly like myself, that have struggled with some back pain in the past and finding ways to really help yourself to eliminate your back pain and really to give you a more optimal and optimistic outlook on what the possibilities are for you to play pain free golf in the future. Ryan is an expert at really breaking down the anatomy and the physiology of what’s going on between the fascia, the muscle, the ligaments. He’s got a great Instagram channel where he really dives in and shows different exercises for these different types of exercises and for spine health in general. So you’re really going to enjoy this episode with Ryan DeGale. Our partners over at Linksoul have been providing us with the best apparel for both on the course and off the course, from polos to t-shirts like the one I have on right now. Everything that they have is meant to be worn from the golf course to wherever you’re going next, whether that be casual, whether that be to the beach there’s all different options over there. So go to 18strong.com slash Linksoul. You’ll get 20% off of anything in your cart over on Linksoul’s website. So again, 18strong.com slash Linksoul for our favorite brand of apparel for anything on the golf course and off. So let’s get to this week’s interview. Ryan DeGale, welcome to the 18strong podcast. Thanks for having me. Yeah, man, this will be fun. We’ve had a couple of conversations, we’ve tried to do this before and had a couple of technical difficulties, so this is going to be fun to finally dig in and get to chat a little bit more. I think that this is going to be a masterclass on the back, which is what a lot of our golfers need. I think I’ve learned myself, even as a physical therapist, just watching a lot of your content, your Instagram and just kind of learning about what you do. I’ve learned a ton, and so today, what I would love to do is make this very practical for the golfers listening on, what are some of the things that they can do, how can they understand Maybe they’re back a little bit better and the things that they need to do to help prepare themselves. So, first of all, welcome back to the show. 0:03:08 – Ryan DegaleYeah, awesome, so it’s good to get it in. Got a little bit of practice before, so looking forward to digging deeper into it and maybe just touch on a few subjects that maybe we didn’t touch before. Maybe there’s some things I left out, that I could do better this time. 0:03:21 – Jeff PelizzaroNo, all good man, yeah. So let’s talk a little bit about your history, though, because you start out in the strength training world, but you are a spine specialist and you’ve gone deep and you’ve learned from some of the best in the world regarding spinal health, and now you especially work with a lot of golfers too. So this is a perfect lineup for what our people need. 0:03:43 – Ryan DegaleYeah, so I’ve been a strength coach for 17 years. I’ve been orthopedic specialist for 12. I felt like you know if you can make the biggest difference? You know I wanted to. I love niche, right, I’m very nerdy with that kind of stuff and I kind of got put onto this, this kind of Givolié rabbit bowl where it just literally just never ends. These courses are so awesome and so practical and so useful that you can retake the same course, even the most basic ones, 30 times and learn something new every time. The you know G was a former orthopedic surgeon who studied anatomy. You know, he was tired of cadaver so just became a surgeon so he could study living anatomy, because living anatomy is living, is different than you know with like formaldehyde and all of the dead body stuff you know. So. And then he developed a series of an entire program, not just the algohm method, to prevent surgeries. And his, from his words as a surgeon, he says that 3% of all back surgeries are necessary. And so you know, you know it depends, right? So we’ll say like maybe non-contact, like disperneations, or you could have like I don’t want to get too technical, but maybe this shifting forward or backwards. They call it a retrolyzed thesis or a spondylized thesis, and you know there’s a lot of things that we can do for ourselves where we can. You know it’s a self-responsibility thing. And he says favorite quote is you are your own best therapist, and so I really love that, and so that’s pretty much what I teach. I basically teach people to not be codependent so we can get them strong and fit in those bombs. Yeah. 0:05:09 – Jeff PelizzaroLove it, love it. So when you say that and when Guy says that you know 3% of back issues are, you know, really necessarily need surgery, what are some of the things that you see people going in for where you’re just like man if I had, if I was able to get my hands on this person. What are some of the diagnoses or what are some of the issues that people go in for that really you feel like man if I only had some time with them. 0:05:34 – Ryan DegaleA few millimeters of space or the disverteation at L5S1, you know they when they have symptoms like very heavy symptoms. But you know everything with the tissues in the body there’s really not that much room. So if you create a little bit of lubrication and a little bit of space in the right area and able to, you know, restructure the pelvis, create a little more flexibility, the ribcage, and so they’re able to play golf, because you know when you most players, after they hit a golf shot, that’s when they have back pain. So you need space to decelerate the golf club. You don’t get to the top and you drop in pain. It’s mostly after the ball and so just kind of reconditioning things. You know it’s. It’s difficult because you know, you know the the medical industry is really governed by insurance these days where you have to code. A lot of the programs are coded, you know, and it’s difficult for the doctors and therapists where they’re kind of at the mercy of the insurance companies of how to treat and this stuff. And so why a lot of people have better um with private practice or cash. Not everybody can afford it. But you know I’m trying to bring small awareness to that and you know it does not have to be fancy, it just has to be right and it has to be consistent. 0:06:39 – Jeff PelizzaroAnd what would you say is kind of the primary driver of that pain. That is most typical. Obviously, there’s a lot of different things that can go on with the back, but you’ve got these golfers you said a lot of times. You see that they have pain as they’re finishing their swing, they’re getting through contact. What are the typical structures, what are the typical issues that are causing that? Or, and you know, back wise, hip wise, shoulder wise, and what are some of the things that you feel like most guys or girls could prevent this if they had a little bit more knowledge of what they needed to do. 0:07:09 – Ryan DegaleI think, just really a specific warm up. Because you know, like, if you look at professional sports, you see, like you know Steph Curry, he’s, you know, doing some drills on the basketball court. You see, you know, when I’m writing a program for somebody who does this game for a living, you know they’re at the gym 30 to 45 minutes prepping the tissues, getting their nervous system activated. You know, warming up the ligaments correctly and doing all these kind of things in the lower back that are specific to what golfers need. You know, maybe a few pelvic till, some spinal translations, some rolling on, roll this mind, because everybody’s so afraid of fletching. But you know, fletching we have to in sport. You know that there is a lot of our flexor chain being used and so we need to prep the body in that way where everybody’s afraid of doing extensions and flexing. But you know we have to train it in a controlled environment so that we can go out there and not have to think about it. And with the Aldo method it’s basically a French acronym for creating space in a joint segment and so you know, you can use your own body way to decompress your spine in different segments of the spine after your rounds, which is fundamental, and then you go to sleep and then the tissues will heal at that length and you’ll be able to slowly but surely rehydrate this, the body. If you give it enough the great environment, with the right tools, it can regenerate. I’ve seen it, you know. I’ve seen it in imaging studies, working with people with severe scoliosis when they were basically given a ticket of paying for the rest of their life. It’s just a management system. There’s no cures, it’s just a management system. How can I manage? You know the way I feel every day with the two of us, the tools I have, and I think that gives people a lot more empowerment than just being the sort of victim thing which is unfortunate, with the surgeries, pills and injections. And you know it’s destroyed a lot of lives and that’s really the truth. 0:08:52 – Jeff PelizzaroSo I’m sure that a lot of people listening, myself included, are thinking man, this is very refreshing to hear that you know it’s not a death sentence when you start to have back pain in your 30s or 40s or 50s. And I think a lot of people just kind of assume that either I’m on my way to getting surgery at some point down the line, or I’m going to have to give up golf, or I’m going to have to start to restrict some of my activities. 0:09:17 – Ryan DegaleWe are not giving out golf for our Never right, that’s it. 0:09:20 – Jeff PelizzaroForever. You play it until you keep swinging forever. But so, regarding like the looking at the X-rays, the MRIs, the films, so you’ve actually seen changes in the disc space and the different tissues after going through some of this maintenance stuff. 0:09:38 – Ryan DegaleYeah with my clients, and G puts up slides with a lot of cases. We’ve seen cases of some of the most well-known athletes in the world. You know he’s kind of like the guy who works in the shadows and nobody knows about. He is so paranoid about quality control, which I really love him for. I mean there is some, you know, like Bryce Turner from LDA USA. You know that he’s the best LDA teacher in America. I mean he’s worked with Kansas City Chiefs, to the LA Dodgers, to any professional hockey, baseball, you name it, and so including pro golfers, and you know you just have to be really careful because you know precision is key when you’re like in the LDA world there’s five levels, he’s creating six, but even at level four there’s only, like you know, there’s only like probably a hundred of us in the world and so there’s only four of us in the state of Florida, and so you know the supply and demand is not really there. It’s kind of mostly. You mostly find these techniques referrals. We don’t. We’re not like Morgan and Morgan Hubbubboards, and you know all this other stuff going on you know what I mean. So I know for a fact that you know guys like Woods and Cantley, and you know a lot of these other guys, have used this method. I mean, cantley had the ticket of yeah, he had a misdiagnosed disfracture and you know. You know there’s a lot of different tools but you know, sometimes I think it’s becoming a lot more popular and so you got to be a little bit careful because essentially, what you’re trying to do, you’re trying to create an anchor and then you’re trying to, with different angles of the way you position your limbs, you’re creating forces that oppose that anchor and it takes somebody the lot of experience. It’s not as simple as just kind of downloading a video and doing it right the first time. It takes. It’s a skill that you have to develop and you, quite frankly, can’t afford not to have it. I mean, I suffered from back pain. My background is track and field. I did mixed martial arts type boxing, brazilian Jiu Jitsu and that kind of stuff. When I took a break from golf I played. I started at 11, played golf every day for probably 10 years, got burns out, you know, did the martial arts thing, came back to golf and you know I’ve been, you know, enjoying it ever since, but you know, these are a lot of things that we need to take responsibility for and you know, and just not you know it takes a lot of the fear away, in my opinion, when you have a tool that you’re like okay, I feel this. I haven’t understanding what it is, and that’s kind of what ELDOA practitioners, and so our practice shares, teach people how to do. 0:12:12 – Jeff PelizzaroSo can you describe for for all of us, especially kind of the in lay person’s terms as much as possible, what’s actually happening when you’re doing some of these ELDOA techniques and why is it so effective in helping to produce the space, helping to decompress? So that’s a really great question. 0:12:32 – Ryan DegaleSo everybody’s seen the inverted tables, right? Yep, so you hang upside down and your ligament system is just hanging upside down and you’re creating space that way. Well, what happens like when you go like this? Then gravity takes over and then you’re like a slinky. You go back to me, decompress, you get temporarily they look pretty bulky to me. They’re not something you just carry in a suitcase, right. Right, say, if you’re with your boys and you’re playing scene Andrews and the links up over there and turmeric and all that, and you start having backman, you have your, you know, upside down inverted table, you don’t. So the ELDOA method is so, without getting too technical, it reconditions so ligaments connect bone to bone, tendons connect muscle to bone, flashes like Saranrat for our body. That creates a structure and it has intelligence and it communicates with our brain of what’s going on as far as length and tension and all this kind of stuff is extremely intelligent. And what the ELDOA gives you an opportunity to train all these systems to support that disc in gravity. Right, so you’re going to war with your tissues for a minute and so you’re actually stretching those tissues, stretching, stretching and you’re creating end range of motion with all this stuff. And then when you stop the posture and you can tensely do this, that structure is way stronger than it used to be, and so you’re able to do things and create space and fold that space and create circulation to get that disk to where it needs to be. And that’s what the difference is. 0:13:58 – Jeff PelizzaroSo it’s almost like you’re creating a space, like an inversion table would create it, but you’re forcefully doing it and while you’re doing it, you’re teaching your body how to support those structures, how to kind of you know. Watching some of your videos online, it’s interesting to see how many little muscles are all around the spine. I think most of us don’t really visualize that when we think of our backs, that there’s so many little muscles, ligaments, tendons, everything that connects all of these different pieces of the back, and so you’re helping to train all of those different pieces to basically support it, almost like a bridge, like a structure hanging from guide wires. 0:14:36 – Ryan DegaleYeah, yeah for sure, and the great thing is is that the specificity of it. Now, the inverted table is one exercise, right, there’s 120 plus L-doll postures, and so like there’s L-doll postures for the TMJ. I mean, believe it or not, the skull moves. There’s biomechanics of the skull that have two L-doll postures for which are too technical. I’m not that smart. I use the ones for the SI joint in the spine mostly for golf. The ones for the hips are really important. A lot of people have hip pain, a lot of hip replacements and stuff like that. 0:15:08 – Jeff PelizzaroYou mentioned the fascia and how basically elusive it is, but how important it is. It’s around everything in our body pretty much. How important is being able to understand its role in not just our body but our posture, our athletic ability, even from the standpoint of swinging faster or moving better. How much does the fascia and how much are we just now starting to learn about how important it is? Because it seems like before it just kind of used to be thought of as almost like a throwaway tissue or like just the saran wrap that holds us together. 0:15:39 – Ryan DegaleI mean I can’t say the bare to myself. I think Europe is far ahead of America when it comes to studying the connective tissue. The people who are the best tissue specialists are in Germany and France and so they haven’t forgotten about it. It’s mostly a little bit more towards the American side. The standard of care in America is a lot different paradigm than it is in Europe. It’s not that great in Europe either, but it’s not very pharmaceutical driven as much. It’s not very surgery driven as much. It’s not as much as much as things like this. They don’t make billions and billions of dollars from pain medication. It’s not mostly an American thing. I mean it’s. Sometimes people get addicted to pain meds from back issues and that causes a whole other set of issues. The throwaway tissue yeah for sure, that’s what Guy says. He says that a lot of the American scientists they basically threw it away and then studied organ systems and everything that we’re talking about. But it’s there for a reason and it’s almost like it helps disperse energy through the body. It gives us our structure. We don’t have structure without fascia and so you know how these guys can jump off of buildings with parkour and all that kind of stuff and energy is dispersed correctly and movement disperses energy. Energy is never destroyed, it just changes its form. And so you know, you know, being elastic in the golf swing, having a good energy absorber and having normalization to that fascia and training it in its maximal length will train the nervous system so you’re less likely to have like tears with ligaments and all this kind of stuff. So you’re training that body to almost get ready for being overstretched and having intelligence and having intelligence so you don’t have sprains of lower back issues and that kind of stuff. 0:17:26 – Jeff PelizzaroSo are there specific techniques that you use? I mean, obviously we’ve been talking about the aldoes and kind of these one-minute longer postural type situations. But what about for that explosive reactive stuff, for that like the X factor that you are talking about in your Instagram series and that whole stretch and contract, and how do we train the tissue for that? Or even a situation this will ring with a lot of people that we just saw, like in the Super Bowl when that football player was running off the sideline to go into the game and tour as a Achilles. I assume he tours Achilles. 0:17:58 – Ryan DegaleCrazy. Yeah, he did tour as Achilles. I was like, yeah, look at that left leg. I mean, we were just talking about that. And so bridges have cable to sway energy and so in good engineering, everything moves. The earth moves, so you have to sway energy and that’s how our tissues work. As far as that is concerned, I think it’s Hydration definitely plays a role into that sort of stuff, and also a lot of Gee teaches a lot of proprioception and neurological techniques, because ligaments are intelligent, they’re constantly communicating with the brain of like, okay, you’ve heard of the Golgi tendons and stuff like that. And so there’s ways to create awareness and some of the major ligaments in the hip for better where it is, because a lot of the times most people work on the hardware and don’t upgrade the software. I could have a computer that’s very powerful, but if I don’t have software to tell it what to do, then it’s going to be inefficient. And so with golfers, for instance, if you have issues with trail elbow stuff, there are certain ways to create awareness in the glenicumeral joint or the AC joint, or making sure that you have enough awareness in certain parts of the elbow Because, like takeaway, and then you have a lot of these different arm structures that players are plagued with and this and that, and it can be just kind of a case by case basis and that has kind of a general statement for that. So you know it goes in cycles. So you want to take what somebody needs in the first cycle, say, if they’re extremely tight, they don’t have any. You know they don’t have good motor pathways. You want to, you know, regulate that. And then you go into a lot more reinforcement and reinforcement is so important to stabilize the joint. If you lengthen you must strengthen right, and so most people, you know, have no mobility. They strengthen and then they go on speed. And then I just put up a story of a 76 year old guy who I took through a program, put him on a stack system. That guy gained over 10 miles an hour at club head speed. Dude, that’s incredible. Like he’s, at 76 years old, swinging between 96 to 104. Whoa, and he started at 89 to 92, I think he said and so, but he’s a general. You know, you put in the work. We barely used any weights. When you get elastic and your brain knows what to do and how to move, it makes the golf instructors job so much easier Because you know these guys have bodies that don’t move in front of them. Then they have to try and make a golf swing out of that, so it’s challenging for them. 0:20:35 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, if you could go a little bit further into that idea of you know many of us just kind of strengthen, then we try to throw a speed onto it. But you also said if you do end up lengthening, you got to strengthen. Why is that so important, aside from just going and trying to get that extra range of motion or go get more flexible, which is what 90% of the golfers out there think is I just need a bigger turn, I need to stretch more. 0:20:58 – Ryan DegalePower is nothing without control, and so adding stability and you know if you have if you don’t have enough stability for the body, especially in the spine area, then you’re more subject to ligament tears. You know where they overstretch and there’s not enough stability to support the joint correctly. And so I’ve had people who have programs where we do 80% stretching, 20% reinforcement and you have a little bit of awareness in there. And then I have people that are opposite. I’ve had, like there’s certain golfers who are female, who are hyper elastic, where we do 80% reinforcement, 20%. I didn’t even have them do one stretch, maybe one or two for a certain, maybe some of the internal rotators of the hip and stuff like that. But you know they’re doing, they’re being stabilized because that’s why they have pain. We’re the same guy who has a symptom where he needs to do the opposite program. 0:21:47 – Jeff PelizzaroAnd when you say reinforcement, what exactly do you mean by reinforcement exercises? 0:21:51 – Ryan DegaleJust strength training you know like, for instance, it depends where their weak areas are, but a lot of the time the proximal hamstrings are weak when you have, you know, your sit bones, where the hamstrings originated. And then there’s two that goes into the on the meadow part of the knee, one to the outside of the knee, and so do I want to reinforce. Is this person’s knee unstable? There are certain ways to reinforce the fibers that are a little closer to the knee or the pelvis, where the pelvis has weird things going on, where either it’s still too far forward or it has these sort of motions called torsions that cause issues. Most people think they have a leg length discrepancy, where one leg is a little longer than the other, but it’s actually a pelvis issue that you need to address. That’s pushing one side forward and the other one is back, and so you know, and then they start having like issues with plants or fascia, and you know their motion and their gall swing have done balance. Because you know if you have a lot of weight on one side compared to the other, you can cut some prompts. 0:22:47 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, many times, whatever the area is that they’re having the problem with or the pain in, isn’t necessarily what is really causing that pain. 0:22:56 – Ryan DegaleYeah, sure, it’s a structural balance thing. I think structural balance like paramount with 80% of. I have about an 80% success rate with people with orthopedic problems, mostly back injuries. They’re low hanging fruit. For me, back injuries is very, very like if they didn’t get hit by a bus or fall over from a you know a two-story building or something. I’m like you got a really good chance. You could be feeling good, and so I just like the easy cases and then I’ll have more complex cases. I had a client from a guy from Canada who had 20 surgeries and so like he’s playing golf pain free. Why can’t you? 0:23:30 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, wow. So what about the golfers that either have back pain or maybe the ones that don’t have back pain? Maybe this is an even better question. As far as, like a maintenance thing, kind of a preventative maintenance thing, what are one, two, maybe three things that you would recommend Like, hey, these are some, like you said, low hanging fruit things that you can do to maybe prevent it or, you know, help to really almost eliminate or reduce your chances of having back pain with golf. 0:23:59 – Ryan DegaleI have to realize that there is a world outside of the Florida weather and there’s a lot of people out in the North. You know that it gets cold in the morning and stuff like that, and so, like I always put, I like to put the seat warmers on and that kind of gets things. You know, something very simple like that is really huge. You don’t need, like you know, sure, we can get into micro for specifics, but you know, if you go and you start, you know if there’s a gym or anything like that, or you can get on the stationary bike for a few minutes just to get circulation and heat. Most people use ice, which is a big mistake. You want to get circulation and you want to move that water and blood around to create anti-inflammatory properties to that area. And so the seat warmers definitely. You know getting on the bike and stuff like that. And you know I don’t want to be biased and say learn L-dope postures, but you know, at least have an idea. I’m sure Bryce has a few YouTube videos up that. Only look at Bryce Turner if you must, okay, because there are some things in there that G is not happy about, but Bryce is the man with that stuff. I got to be a little careful because we signed NDAs. You know it’s up to be a little bit. You know I can, you know, do stuff like this, but demonstrating it he gets a little crazy about that. 0:25:17 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, and, like you said, that’s the quality control piece. Right, that’s somebody who has really mastered their craft and doesn’t want to kind of bastardize by just people throwing up YouTube videos, and so definitely we’ll link up to Bryce’s, I guess, youtube channel if he has it. And I know that, like Dan Hellman did a course through TPI, that I know a lot of the TPI specialists. If you’re a coach you can go look at that stuff as well. You know you’re good friends with Dan and highly recommend working with Dan as well. 0:25:49 – Ryan DegaleWhat about? Yeah, dan’s awesome, he’s actually who put me on to these methods. 0:25:54 – Jeff PelizzaroI took a golf bomb. 0:25:56 – Ryan DegaleYeah, I took a golf bomb mechanic course with him, you know, 12 years ago, and I asked him, you know, do I take the red pill or the blue pill? And he told me the red was G stuff, and so that’s what I did. 0:26:06 – Jeff PelizzaroSo what about when you find somebody that and you mentioned like some scoliosis, or you have somebody that and I’m kind of speaking about myself you know, you look at somebody, you look at their posture. Maybe on their films, their MRI, their X-rays, you see that their spine spinal curves are maybe not ideal. Are there ways to change that stuff and what are kind of the techniques as far as like, obviously we’ve talked about some of the LDO postures, but what about even just like static stretching or static positioning? You know we’ve seen some of these different things on Instagram where you’re laying over the top of these different devices. Do any of those things work? Or how do we go about kind of changing some of that structural positioning? 0:26:49 – Ryan DegaleYou know we’re a little bit more in the school of thought with active versus passive techniques, and so you know not being reliant on, maybe, a machine or anything like that. You know, I just took a scoliosis masterclass with Guy last year and I learned a lot of new things that I didn’t know before. But you know, in a nutshell, you’re gonna wanna be a little bit more into reinforcement, because scoliosis is a rotational disorder. Do you have a C-curve or do you have a functional S-curve? How bad is it? Does it affect your breathing, cause the diaphragm attaches to the spine, are you? You know, I just had a woman come to me today with lumbar scoliosis and there’s very little spacing on one side of the desk compared to the other. And so you know, ldo postures are awesome for sure, but reinforcement is something you’re gonna more so wanna focus on versus just doing a lot of stretching, because sometimes areas are tight for a reason, and so what you wanna try and do is to try and focus on hey, if I’m really weak on one side, or if you look at somebody with scoliosis, they have substantial more muscle mass on one side. That’s buying for the other, and you wanna try and build up, you know, just without getting too technical, a little bit more symmetry. 0:27:59 – Jeff PelizzaroGotcha, the last time you and I had a chance to talk, we discussed a little bit about global posture stretching, mild facial stretching, ldo stretching. What’s kind of the differentiation between some of those and how does that apply for some of the stuff we’ve been talking about? 0:28:17 – Ryan DegaleSo, um, mild facial stretching is putting a chain of connective tissue under tension with a specific area. So if I want to isolate, you know the biceps from auris bicarbon, you know hamstring muscle, I’m going to do certain things. I’m gonna put a lot of other areas under tension, including the eyes are important with that, but that’s more specific right Now. If I want a global posture stretch, we’re for, say, the thoracolumbar fascia, which is like the connected tissue from the middle despite to the lower back, which is great for my X-Factor series then that’s putting a figure eight of global connected tissue under tension to support the body more in a dynamic manner, in my opinion. 0:29:01 – Jeff PelizzaroWell, you mentioned the eyes. Why are the eyes so important in some of these? 0:29:04 – Ryan DegaleSo the eyes connect to the skin and the brain, called the dura mater, which is the fascia of the brain. So the brain is encapsulated by the dura mater. The dura mater has a connection to C0, which has a link to C1. And so if you want maximal fascial tension, the eyes have to be looking low, the crown head has to be pushing to the ceiling and that puts all the ligament system under tension all the way down to the lower back. For a healthy spine to be healthy, it has to be healthy from C0 to S1. It just has to. And because it’s, you know, remember the bridge, the cables on the bridge, how it sways energy. It’s that’s called tensegrity, right, and so that’s how it structures this first energy. And our body is no different. 0:29:50 – Jeff PelizzaroSo what’s, what’s one of the well, you mentioned, the guy that you’ve been working with that has, you know, has had major surgeries. I’m just wondering what’s, what are some of the more serious cases that you’ve dealt with and what were some of the things that you had to work on them with? You know people love hearing stories, stories that they resonate with as far as the pain they’ve been through and getting back out on the golf course. 0:30:10 – Ryan DegaleYou know, mostly guys. You know I want to be called the grave digger so because I dig those careers out of the dirt when they think you’re dead. You know, and so you know cases where professional golfers you’re like my career is over, I can’t do this anymore. I went to X and Y and tried this and that and got the surgery and it’s. I’m never the first person people go to. I’m normally, you know, people say they’re the trainer for the PGA tour or like the, or the stars or the celebrities. I’m like the desperate person trainer, you know, because you know what I do is not necessarily flamboyant and but it does have a purpose where he teaches you how to be a master of internal forces, where you can pretty much pinpoint where you need to create space and I’ve helped players, you know, get very fast in a short amount of time with minimal to no risk, because there’s a risk with anything. You know. I just feel like, if you must in golf I like train light, move fast. Um, olympic weightlifting I’m look, I know how to Olympic weight lift. I’m actually a CrossFit too, god you know like. I worked at a CrossFit gym my early part of my career and I think there’s a lot of good boxes out there too, but like I think people overdo heavy and explosive. You know I don’t mind med ball throws. I think the stack system is superior. I’d prefer to work on flexibility, neurological control and strength, like in a safe way, and then you hit the stack up and then you got a no risk. You know what have you seen and they’re moving well. 0:31:42 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, what have you seen with, like some heavy lifting, heavy deadlifts? Have you seen any issues with what that does to the spine itself or other tissues that really have steered you away from that stuff? 0:31:55 – Ryan DegaleYou know, I assume everybody has scoliosis. So unless you have somebody who has unless I like to get x-rays of every person I train just have a global view. Now I have done Deak teaches something called a gravity squat and there’s variations that somewhat look like a front squat. You know there are some variations that look like a suitcase deadlift, but you’re doing certain things with the pelvis and certain techniques with the eyes and the crown, the head, that put global tension and then you’re just working the lower body and the lower back. So again, it’s the small details that make something that looks almost identical, different and over periods of time that will compound. 0:32:35 – Jeff PelizzaroWhen you look at it, golfers, and you know how they stand over the ball. Looking at posture, do you feel like there is kind of a? Is there somebody that you look at and you say like that tour pro has kind of the quote unquote ideal posture. 0:32:49 – Ryan DegaleYeah, sure, I think the most important thing is the gravity line. It’s basic, where our brain thinks where we are in space. So you can take, like in front of the earlobe, in front of the. If you have a side view, where you have the earlobe you have the greater Turkana, where the hip bone is, and then in front of the ankle, they call it the lateral malleolite or the mid foot. And you know a lot of people that I see their palaces are out of order and a lot of their weight shift is on their toes and so in their golf swings this makes a lot of motion from feel of the toe. You can see this. I have a pressure tracer right there. So you know we can actually test for that as well. And you know, you know there’s I hate to use the stair-tip thing like early extension, but you know that’s a cause and effect thing. So you know you can be a golf pro and you have your students. You can’t figure out why they’re having these issues with their pelvis-body motion and it could be because of structural problem, not nothing to do with what you’re saying. You know, and that’s why I, like you know, very good acquaintances with Jim McClain, chris Comon, rick Smith and you know I learned from those guys of how they look at the golf swing with. There’s just so much experience and expertise there and the guys at the top they always collaborate and I’m certainly in the collaboration mode. 0:34:11 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, that’s got to be cool being able to coordinate with those guys. I know you said you’ve worked with players that work with those guys. How much interaction do you have as far as, like when, let’s say, you’re working with somebody that Jim or Chris or one of those guys is working with and they’re working on something specific in their golf swing? How much collaboration is there between you and them as far as the physical and what’s going on with the body? 0:34:37 – Ryan DegaleIt really depends. You know the PGH tour players are. You know it really depends, right, and so there are certain layers. You know I’ve only really you know it’s a pretty political thing, right, and so, like with PGH tour players, it can be challenging because there’s so many different layers of MDs and physical therapists and trainers and stuff like that. Then they’re on the range every week and there’s people in the area, and so it can be challenging that way. But I mostly take a I’d step back and take a more consulting role with that. Hey, that may be a great idea and you know, this is maybe the routine before, this is a routine after. Hey, maybe they should reinforce their hamstrings a little bit. Maybe they should start working the fibers for the obliques. The obliques are huge because they terminate into the pelvis and the front of the pelvis manages the mechanics for the sacrum bone, and so you know more of a more in that net light. And I don’t like traveling, you know, and so like. This is why I built the studio. I got, you know, I got a golf course across the street. I can go coach from my Sim Room. You know I’d work 70% remote, and then I have an app where you know I download, you know the videos they need to do and that kind of stuff and more of a consultant. 0:35:57 – Jeff PelizzaroLet’s take a second to thank our sponsors over at 1st Phorm, and this week I want to highlight their Formula One post-workout protein shake. I use this thing pretty much every day after my workouts because, let’s face it, being here in the gym working all the time with clients putting on a podcast, it can sometimes be tough to get my protein in on a regular basis, and so I know that with the post-workout shake the Formula One, first of all, it’s fast acting. So right after your workout is a great time to get your protein in to help build your muscles, get yourself stronger and repair what you’ve done in the gym. But also, if you don’t know if you’re going to be able to get your protein in in your regular meals, it’s just a great way to make sure that you’re supplementing and hitting those marks. So be sure to go over to 1stPhorm.com forward slash 18STRONG to get your 1st Phorm Formula One protein shake, and everyone that enters through that link is going to be put into a drawing every single month for free 1st Phorm products. So again, go over to 1stPhorm.com forward slash 18STRONG. What are things that you think most golfers should be doing in their training sessions, in their workouts, that you kind of feel like it’s being missed by, and let’s talk a little bit more like not the professional golfers that have a team around them, but let’s talk about the guys that are going out there playing with their club. They’re competitive guys, maybe wanting to go win a club championship, but they’re kind of doing some of this. Have a bunch of those guys, yeah, so like what are the big things that they’re missing when they go to the gym, or maybe after the round, or before the round, I think? 0:37:32 – Ryan Degalein 10, I don’t think like exercises. They all do something, but what time is it and what is it for and where is it in a program? Because exercise or just exercise until you build up programs and systems and then there’s execution behind that and so, like you know, the greatest program with somebody who doesn’t have the intent or the consistency will be out formed by somebody at the media occurred to not so great program with great attitude and consistency, and so it depends. It has to be like a blend between those two. But to answer your question, I feel like I think the assessment process maybe maybe there’s. I like specific, like I can’t think too generally, but I, like you know, I’d probably say a little bit more paramount on mobility and stuff like that. I’m taking less risk with certain things that they’re doing. I’m not a huge fan of long distance cardio whatsoever for golf. I think it just completely wrecks your knees, creates plantar fasciitis and, you know, breeze hip replacements. But sometimes you need to give those guys a look, you know, put them on some interval training, get things going, because you know they’re not on. The PGA tour ended on Nita. There’s, there’s a cardiac component to that is super healthy and so you know, you blind it up Me. I work out five days a week and I don’t only train for golf, you know, I like, I like movement. I push the sled around for sure. But what I necessarily have, you know, somebody who has, you know, it just depends on this case, right? Yeah, yeah, totally. 0:38:58 – Jeff PelizzaroAnd I think that that’s kind of where a lot of our listeners fall. That’s where I personally fall too much like yourself, like you know, getting in and trying to do some sort of training or working out or exercise almost most days, whether that even just be going for long walks or so. Everything is not about golf, and you and I have talked about the importance of longevity and just itself. 0:39:20 – Ryan DegaleRight, but, but knowing that there’s a come out is incredibly important, but we don’t want it to slow you down like in your golf. If you want to, you know, like how to guy I just signed up yesterday from upstate New York. He’s a plus three, he’s 40 years old, works on Wall Street and he’s a club champion at Quaker Ridge. And he’s like Brian, I don’t care about looking good, I know if I eat well, I just want to hit these high nasty bombs and beat these young kids’ asses. I was like, okay, let’s rock. All right, let’s do that. Yeah, let’s do it. And then I have. And then I have, you know, another guy who’s just like look, I want to look pretty. You know, I don’t really think that. You know, I don’t really feel great about myself. I want to, I want to. You know, get some of my, you know. And the great thing is that most of these posture and balances you need a hell of a lot of ab work. So you know, nature doesn’t fall as advertised. Normally. If you have strong abs, you know it will show and things like that. 0:40:12 – Jeff PelizzaroSo, yeah, let’s talk a little bit just about the quote unquote core. Right, we hear how important the core is and you’re mentioning the strengthening of the abs. What are some of the ways that you have found to be most effective to really train and stabilize and reinforce, as the word you’ve used so many times reinforce? Our core and how do you define the core? 0:40:37 – Ryan DegaleMultiple layers, different fascial directions, breathing techniques and many kinds. But you know I like so, Guy, you know we know ab exercise for almost anything you can think of. I mean he’s, he even created a GI series dude. There’s ab techniques that create pumping through each segment of the colon to the precise area, corners, everything you think of, right, they? I mean we talked about the diaphragm only for 30 hours, you know, and so I consider the diaphragm a part of the core. I consider the spinal reactors with the logisomus, ilicastellus and transverse banalis, all layers of the core, especially the internal bleaks. I think you get both bank your buck from working the obliques man, because you know they have, they connect ribcage, pelvis, sternum, you name it, they all have. You know it’s all a piece and there’s different layers to all this kind of stuff. And so I mean we know how to. I mean whether I think he spent three days only on the TVA. I mean you know what I mean. So I think the abs are very misunderstood and I used to be a part of this school of thought where I felt like if I deadlifted, squatted and I was doing all the different things that will include the abs and then I’d work on my abs and like shit, these guys are weak. What’s going on? You know I can deadlift. I’ve deadlifted. You know, when I was doing mixed martial arts I’d deadlifted 485 with no bells or strap, maybe 165 pounds. I was really strong, but I was just like I can’t even do like roll and unroll general sit-ups for like 40, 50 reps. You know what’s that all about, right? And so there’s something. If you look at Pascal’s Law, it’s basically the. You know, when we’re talking about remember, I think, did you bring out Mackenzie, or is that another interview? 0:42:27 – Jeff PelizzaroI didn’t, but no, I didn’t but go ahead. 0:42:30 – Ryan DegaleOkay, so you have many kinds of herniations. You can herniate a disc, you know, in the front of the disc, the side posterior, and there’s a sub-sacrifice to that, and so, like you know, the school of thought is that if you do inflection all the time, then that can herniate a disc with the posterior part, which you know you could also like. For instance, if I put you know, pascal’s Law is the physics of water and how water works, and we have to understand this, because most of our bodies made of water and the spacing between the discs are, you know, it’s a synovial fluid, right? And so we need to train our abs to be complete to do certain things. Because, look look at golf swing, right, you have, you know you’re in this position, right? You’re right here, it’s been fletching and you’re doing a lot. There’s a lot of fletching going on right here and you know, with these different torsions, and so I think we need to train those abs, especially in the flexor chain, carefully, understand who’s in front of you, but we need to reintroduce that. I think you know these sort of studies were done in 1973 on six college students and it was never refuted any of the research because we asked about this during abs class because we have a ton of physios in there, so naturally they’re going to ask like, hey, this is what’s the deal. And so you know, to answer your question, they’re the obliques, they’re the biggest bank for your buck. I don’t really use a ton of cable machines. I have. I have, like the uh, the K box a little bit that I use for, you know, the eccentric training or deceleration training, but I think we get a, you know, just getting very, you know, straight in the abs with your body weight and then going to the golf course and because we don’t need to do too many things that look like a golfing in the gym. From my experience, so what? 0:44:13 – Jeff Pelizzarowhat do some of those strengthening exercises for your oblique? Not that we’re going to be doing demonstrations, but I mean we’re talking like, uh, some side planks and rotation and planking positions just to get people a little bit of an idea. Planks man? 0:44:26 – Ryan DegaleYeah, I think I think anybody even with back pain if they’re back pains below five on a scale of one, it’s had for symptoms they can make sure they tuck their pelvis and they’re pushing away. And there’s so many things you can do with a plank. That is really awesome because the ground is a movable. So if I want to factor progression, I don’t like planks that last more than 30 seconds. That means you’re not pushing hard enough, right? So you’re pushing away. That means you get all the rib cage and the serratus muscles that attach to the scapula. You can take your elbows, you can bring them into the floor. That activates the upper abs and then you’ve got a pelvic tilt. That, um, actually my ebook all has this. I just wrote an ebook oh sweet, staying the game. It’s called staying the game, um, how to gain confidence and speed coming back from a back injury and I have some some stuff in there and so when you tuck underneath you get a lot of the lower ab fibers and so, like that’s complete, you’re not doing anything crazy. There’s not a lot of you know, and you know if you have back being in play safe that way, that’s totally cool. 0:45:23 – Jeff PelizzaroI feel like the big takeaway from a lot of what you’re you’re educating us on is really the intention of it, right, the like it doesn’t. You don’t have to lift a bunch of weight. You can do. I mean, all of this, most of this is is just simply body weight and getting in a position. Yeah, but understanding what the intention is, where you’re trying to feel it, where you’re trying to push and move and and pull, and it’s those little connections from the brain to those muscles, tendons, ligaments, that really are going to make the most benefit and make the difference. 0:45:53 – Ryan DegaleAnd it’s something somebody can do. Like what’s the number one complaint? It’s time. It doesn’t require like a ton of time. I just like I’ve had people be like I did 40 minutes of homework today. I’m like why you sound inefficient. Like how much rest are you taking in between? I told you do four things with the minute rest in between for three to four sets. How’d that take you 40 minutes, you know? Do you feel like you can do that for 20 years every day? No, so like why are you doing it like that? Now, if you’re on the LPJ or PJ, it’s why I’m like you better frigging, do that, because it’s your job. You have a multimillion dollar spine but for you know Jack and Jill, you know account and an attorney, they, you know what. What. That’s not sustainable. Yeah, yeah, you can. Efficiency efficiency dude. 0:46:36 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, you could do these things sitting at your desk and then eat lunch and then get back to your desk and you know 30 minutes, whatever it is. It’s great that you said that. 0:46:43 – Ryan DegaleI have a guy who runs a fun over in Michigan. He’s like a plus one. He plays in state tournaments and stuff he’s doing. You know rotator cuff stretches in his office because that’s when he has most of his time. He walked around his thing. Of course he has his putter and you know he’s there straight. You know it is yeah. So it doesn’t have to be structured per se, it just has to be consistent. 0:47:05 – Jeff PelizzaroAll right, Last thing before we jump into our our final questions here Foam rolling. You know, we’ve talked about fascia, we’ve talked about the tissue. What about all these self-mile fascial tools and things like that? Okay, I don’t like them. 0:47:21 – Ryan DegaleAnd this is this is just my opinion. I’ve been approached by probably five or six companies a month, three Instagram to promote their products and I was like I’m sorry, I don’t use it in my practice, like it would not come off genuine If I’m, if I’m collaborating with a product or a person and stuff, I believe what they do and you know, I just can’t associate myself. So one thing Gied noticed right, with connected tissue. And there’s also a lot of other good literature, um, a few books over here. If I could just like a hold them up for maybe some of the physios or retrainers out there we want to, you know, take a deep dive into anatomy and so pressure, very sensitive to pressure. Um, because the connected tissue like this is this is why I’m amazing massage therapist is so important to be careful of who you know works on your, on your tissues. Right, because pressure changes, listening to the body, that takes a lot of time and experience to to um, you know, acquire and so, like, most people have no understanding of the direction of the fascia and which you need to pump. Right, because everything is like a lymphatic system. Right, most people destroy their TFL and their IT band anyways and then they crush their quads. I’ve seen across the genes. They use a PVC pipes and all this crazy stuff. And so, like, fascia wants to be hydrated and it wants to have length and freedom, and that’s what it needs. And so this is why, in my opinion, the GPS, the ELDOA and the myofascial stretching are superior, because you’re using your own tissues and there’s global pressure throughout the entire chain when you’re in a posture where you don’t, where you don’t create inflammation and that’s not an opinion. I mean, dan did a great presentation at the T uh, we’re a golfing and summit on why he doesn’t like foam rollers either. So that that’s maybe I’m biased, but, um, you know, I I really trust and he’s a lot smarter than me and he’s a lot smarter than Dan. 0:49:16 – Jeff PelizzaroSo, yeah, Well, that’s, that’s why we have individuals like you on here, because you guys have so much depth of knowledge and Dan and some of the other people that have come on and, and you know the, the video that, um, I think Guy has about the tissue and fascia, uh, for me that really kind of showed how you know how sensitive that tissue is. Um, I don’t even know if you remember the, the name of the video, or or you know the video that I’m referencing, but, um, I think it was maybe Dan that had turned me on to and it actually looked like under the surface of the skin, at the, the tissue that was yeah, yeah, John George. 0:49:51 – Ryan DegaleI think John George sorry, that’s a chef Um, I’ll have to check the author. Yeah, I mean, I think I have maybe around 1200 hours of of it, uh, with Guy. I’ve spent about 1200 hours with him, so, um, he’s, uh, he’s awesome. And then there’s some other. You know, like Bryce is great for El Doa. Um, you know, and these are tools that are so fundamental to helping your clients. I mean, geez, you know, you can really make a difference in somebody’s quality of life with this stuff, and, uh, it does make a huge difference. 0:50:23 – Jeff PelizzaroDid you want to go grab those books that, uh, that you mentioned? Yeah, we’ll. We’ll pop them up on the screen. Yeah, and there’s a view of um, uh, this couple. 0:50:30 – Ryan DegaleI really like Nectar’s for other stuff, you know, because I’m a picture boy, yeah, and uh, grey’s Anatomy 1908 edition is a little bit too old English for me, but uh, here’s one of them. All right, this is probably the one that you’re talking about. 0:50:43 – Jeff PelizzaroOkay, Yep Architecture of human living fascia. 0:50:46 – Ryan DegaleYeah, and so it basically goes through the structures and you know how, how delicate things are. I mean, hopefully people don’t have a. You know, there’s a lot of anatomy in there, yeah. 0:50:55 – Jeff PelizzaroThis, this is for all the coaches and medical professionals. 0:50:58 – Ryan DegaleOn, on and so you and and so you know also with this, you know, go through different fascial slings and relationships and stuff like that, and I think is you know, if you want to do things at a very high level, is that okay? If I show a dead body, yeah For sure, right? So stuff like that. You need to know where the direction of fibers are and you know when you become a structure of dispersion correctly, you’re more less than likely to have these major problems. 0:51:26 – Jeff PelizzaroAwesome. Well, so that that last text that you just showed is that where you get some of the images that you’re putting on your Instagram as a recently. 0:51:34 – Ryan DegaleNo, I don’t that’s from, that’s from Jason. He’s a sports Cairo from. I just took a a Pelus Balm Mechanics course. I’ve taken that course six or seven times because again, I’m still have another 28 to go before everything is clear. 0:51:50 – Jeff PelizzaroAwesome, and so, yeah, I mean so for those of you listening, go check out Ryan’s Instagram, which is it’s golf underscore and underscore body, right, Ryan? Yeah, Go check that out. He does some amazing videos. He gets very detailed on some of the anatomy and then goes and shows a lot of different exercises. He’s doing a great series right now on the X factor, so by all means go check that out. Is that the best place for them to go and kind of follow what you’re doing? 0:52:17 – Ryan DegaleYeah, I’m starting to bring up my Facebook presence. You know there’s a lot of golfers on Facebook, especially with older guys. You know that have been transitioned to the Instagram over there. Yeah, so the first five part series is 15, 15 videos in which you know we’re the first five. I’m showing you stretches, correct, freedom. We’re going to create freedom because the X factor is essentially the, the measurement between how far the pelvis turns backwards and how far your rib case can turn over that pelvis. Okay, and so the the more explosive players like Gordon Sargent and Roy Mac around these guys, they have just the most amazing difference between those two. So the average player has a 42 degree X factor. So if your hips turn 48 degrees and your hips and your shoulders turn 90, that means you have 42. Roy has over 63. Wow, so he’s getting like probably 105 to 10 degrees of shoulder turn with X, whatever that is, you know, minus the X factor, minus what his hip turn is. And so this acts like a coil. And so when good players, they start turning their pelvis towards the target, even sometimes before they finish their back, this act, this creates a stretch. So you actually have more of a stretch with the X factor that way, and if you can’t do that in a controlled environment and not free tissues, I just never understood how you could do that with 120 miles an hour, or even a hundred miles an hour, for that matter. So the next five videos would be five neurologic goal things. Now we have all this extra space, we can now focus on major areas of the hip that our brain needs to learn how to use. And then, of course, we got the reinforcement at strength of the last five. Hey, how do I have all this Now that I don’t hurt myself, now that I have to be strong to for golf? 0:54:00 – Jeff PelizzaroPerfect, and so that’s a. You said a 15 video, 15 video sequence that’ll be coming out. 0:54:07 – Ryan DegaleYep, I, I, I’m on a video for right now. I filmed 10 already, so I just needed to do the reinforcement section. Awesome. 0:54:15 – Jeff PelizzaroAll right, my man, let’s uh, let’s finish up with our end of the segment questions which you know. Or first one, caddy Shack or happy Gilmore. 0:54:23 – Ryan DegaleCaddy Shack. He’s been a member of Grand Oaks, so where are they filmed it? That’s right. That’s right. I forgot you had. 0:54:27 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, I mean. 0:54:28 – Ryan DegaleRonnie Dainterfield man, I mean I don’t know how like that guy’s an absolute legend, you know. I mean there I there’s more quotes from that movie than certainly more than Gilmore, for sure, right. 0:54:40 – Jeff PelizzaroI would. There’s. There’s quite a few from Gilmore, but I I personally quote Caddy Shack almost every day. Yeah, yeah. 0:54:46 – Ryan DegaleThey could yeah, exactly, all right, what’s? 0:54:48 – Jeff Pelizzaroyour walkup song. If you can pick a walkup song to the first T. 0:54:53 – Ryan DegaleOh man, that’s a really good question. You know I’ve I may. I may not look like a fighter, but my walkup song, uh, in my I have had five mixed martial arts fights. Um was 50 cent mini mince. 0:55:08 – Jeff PelizzaroNice. 0:55:10 – Ryan DegaleYeah, I’ll like 50. 0:55:12 – Jeff PelizzaroAll right, Is there a book that you would recommend to the 18STRONG crew, and this could be. This could be fitness golf. This could be anything in life that you, it has meant a lot to you, or that you tend to give out as a gift to people. 0:55:25 – Ryan DegaleWell, I think that’s the most, uh, difficult question because I love to read. You know, I thought one of the most interesting books that nobody talks about is nutrition and physical degeneration by Weston A Price, who is a um, who was a dentist and a and a medical um, a nutrition researcher in the 1920s, in which his research is buried because the American medical association didn’t like what they’re, what they funded, what the results were. Back in those days, most people had crowding at the teeth where they had narrow jaws and deviated septums, and you’ll notice this. This actually is conducive to processed foods, processed sugar. They had issues with tuberculosis back then and stuff like that, and they’re way more healthy back in those days than now. Right, I mean, we’re so lucky we have modern medicine, because there would be people dropping like flies out there, because now more than ever we need to self educate men. It’s hard to trust sources these days because it’s funded like Hoffman. Larouche funded the first dietary program in colleges to teach dietitians how to sell processed food from the food guy pyramid. Because if you like the food guy pyramid, then you look like a pyramid and then you become diabetic and then they get you a medication and then you can’t sleep and then you get a medication, and then you’re backers because you’re overweight and then you get a medication and that’s called an annuity for life. I mean good business for them, not so much for the public right, I was a clinical nutritionist for 10 years around medical labs. I decided to focus only on orthopedics because I wanted to be the best I possibly could and I enjoyed orthopedics more. 0:57:02 – Jeff PelizzaroGreat suggestion. Definitely have to check that out. 0:57:05 – Ryan DegaleYeah, there’s plenty of tea like pitchers, and this is important because our dental health is closely related to our biochemistry in our body. So if you’re getting cavities or something seriously wrong with your body, chemistry, biochemistry. So he would compare a primadize diet to modernized diets and the difference was with whole foods and animal fats and proteins. So this all this low fat propaganda, all this like villainizing saturated fats, get into soy, get into vegetable oil, all that is just marketing to get you, it’s to scare you into buying their products. And that’s the truth. And most people know this now. But they didn’t even know this 10 years ago. Like I had a lot of backlash with the girl like are you serious? My doctor told me you’re gonna kill me. I was like what? What you know? Because they only get eight hours of basic nutrition and then eight or nine years they go to medical school and that’s all for food gap pyramid. And so you know you can’t compete with doctors. Word like I don’t you know. So the orthopedics is a natural stepping step. 0:58:07 – Jeff PelizzaroCrazy, yeah, all right, who would be in your dream celebrity foresum? If you got to pick a foresum of anybody in the world, pastor, president, who you taking? 0:58:19 – Ryan DegaleYou know I’m a big F1 fan. I like Eretan Santa. I know a lot of F1 golfers do play golf, but Eretan maybe I didn’t even care if he’s the 30 handicapper, it’d be cool to pick his brain. Of course, tiger Woods because he’s transcended the game. And the last one man, I mean it may sound cliche, but already because he made golf cool. And you know I’m a huge believer in making it accessible to as many people as possible versus being kind of a little bit more of an elitist thing. You know, because what golf has taught me since I’ve been playing, since I was 11, everything was free for me. There was a guy in Barbados called Denny Foster who put a club in my hand and this opened so many doors for me. I mean, the seat time I get and who I can network with because of this game is just it’s a joke. And you know kind of pretty. Made me work, who I am today Having access to that, versus maybe 20, 30 years ago it wasn’t like that. So I like guys like Eastside Golf, but we’re some of their. You know their hoodies and apparel because you know it’s cool, make it cool. You know where the Jays or the Dung or whatever you know and just make golf cool. You know that’s why Anthony Kim was so popular. You know he had those huge belt buckles on point. I just feel like guys these days they’re a little bit too. You know they’re robotic and sure there’s a lot at stake, but you know it’s an entertainment sport. You know, maybe this is why good good is getting some more views than PGA for events. I mean, I was watching the match the other day. I was like you know it’s a little bit boring. I’m going to turn on good good and watch Michael Thurbey on some hit bombs and talk about his injuries. And Rory was on TV. I’m sorry, but I mean you know we want to be entertained and I feel I don’t. I’ve been to a few live events since I was a member at Durell. I think they’re really close to having the right product. They need to go to 72 poles I don’t like the music in between and the shotgun starts to get all that and then they have a killer product, dude, and I think that that’s going to where the game is going to be going to. 1:00:16 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, we haven’t had one around here that I know of yet, and so I definitely be interested in checking it out and seeing seeing what the vibe is. I know the people are on one side of the fence or the other, really, but I definitely be interested in checking it out. 1:00:29 – Ryan DegaleYeah, shotgun starts don’t make sense to me, because they you know they’re supposed to be ebbs and flow, golf course, architecture. 1:00:35 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, and these guys don’t care. 1:00:37 – Ryan DegaleThese old guys don’t care about playing. They’re on my, my two TVs. They are. They’re on my. They’re playing Asian tour events for world ranking points all the time it’s off for less golf at around. Get the world ranking points and get rid of that stupid shotgun start and you know and just dominate. You know what I mean. 1:00:53 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, well, we’ll see what happens with that and you know it’s, it’s interesting to see. I mean now, with Rom going over there and and rumors of some other people maybe heading that way, it’ll be. These next couple of years are going to be. I can’t wait to see this Netflix series that just came out, to see some of the behind the scenes of all of that stuff. 1:01:10 – Ryan DegaleYeah, it should be interesting. Do you see the the Rom dinner reservation card? Oh, you know the past champion, the? Well, the champion from last year, did you know? I think, what do you say? Meet the PGA tours players. Finally meet on the 18th green at 6pm, you know? 1:01:28 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, you know so that. So that came out last year on I think it was Shephlers I don’t know if those, I can’t tell if that was a joke. If I’ve heard some people say that that wasn’t a real deal and that they just redid it for Rom’s, this for Rom’s this year. So I don’t know, but either way I thought it was fine, it’s just wrong, way better right now. 1:01:45 – Ryan DegaleIt’s just wrong, way better right now, you know he’s probably gonna fly there on his personal helicopter when he’s there now, no kidding. 1:01:51 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, this, that’ll be interesting to watch, all right, so so you’ve got. You’ve got the F1 driver, you’ve got Tiger, you’ve got Arnie the king. If we had the 18th Strong Jet and we could take you anywhere in the world. What’s your bucket list, course that you’re going to with these guys? 1:02:06 – Ryan DegaleGosh first Augusta. But you know on value nice to not be like these memories. You still need to take me. 1:02:14 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, that’s definitely on the list over here, I believe. I believe you said your client. You’ve got a client named Jim. I’ve got a client named Jim, both members of Pine Valley. I think we need to get on to Jim’s and get down there. All right, what’s the best piece of golf advice you’ve ever been given? 1:02:36 – Ryan DegaleGDO Arnie Ells was hitting bunker shots and I walked over to him I said hey, I’m on a body. You know, how do you, how are you so fluid? You said you’re so big and stuff like that be easy. He said just wait on it because you know, most of the swing flaws are G2 improper sequencing, you know, and sometimes less is more in this game and so just, you know, be a little bit more patient. It helped me because I was quick and hitting some little left hurts and you know, after that I was hitting some high draws, low spin. It was pretty amazing because I have a lot of speed. And so if there’s like some things that are a little bit off, are you a little quick? Get ugly real quick. 1:03:18 – Jeff PelizzaroHard to argue with anything that big earn says. 1:03:22 – Ryan DegaleYeah, he’s a stud. I mean it’s crazy what he was able to do back when the Tiger era. I mean how’d you win that many times when Wood was at his peak dude? And same thing with Mcklisson. I mean he’s not exactly as popular as he used to be, but you got to respect. You know what what he was doing. 1:03:37 – Jeff PelizzaroTotally All right, my man. Last one is there a social media account that you follow? You? Obviously your Instagram is is blown up and you know, I always like to get an idea of what are some of the other accounts out there that people like yourself are watching, paying attention to. That the 18th wrong crew can benefit from. 1:03:56 – Ryan DegaleYou know I’m a really big fan of personal development and mindset. I really think that Alex Hermozzi is the is the king of practical application and mindset, because you know you really difficult out there guys, and you know it’s. It’s especially with everything going on AI if you have a job that may be at risk for this sort of stuff. You got to be able to adapt and create value and I really liked that. This is why I decided to come out the shadows and start. You know, I was like you know I need to, I need to go and come out into the world. World. I’m going to start a YouTube channel and and I thought I was about a year ago that I decided to do this and so you know, I’m going to just basically be working, having online business with you know, some in person, of course, but mostly online. 1:04:43 – Jeff PelizzaroWell, you’ve taken it and you’ve run with it, so whatever you’re doing, it’s working, my man. 1:04:48 – Ryan DegaleAppreciate it, man. It was awesome. Thanks for having me on the show. I mean I could talk about golf and this stuff like for another 10 hours, so I appreciate you led me Babel. 1:04:58 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, man, well, let’s have, let’s continue this conversation down at Pine Valley. How about that? 1:05:02 – Ryan DegaleI love that. 1:05:03 – Jeff PelizzaroYou called Jimbo’s up. You got it All right. Ryan, really appreciate you coming on. Everybody go check out Ryan over on Instagram golf underscore and underscore body, tons and tons of great information. Go on over there, check it out and Ryan can’t thank you enough again for coming on. 1:05:19 – Ryan DegaleThank you, have a good one. 1:05:23 – Jeff PelizzaroThanks for listening to the 18STRONG podcast and if you found this episode helpful, don’t forget to share with your friends. And, of course, go follow us over on Instagram at 18STRONG. Thanks again. We’ll catch up with you next week. Train hard, practice smart and play better golf.

Guest: Bobby Holland (Founder Hoolie Golf, Retired Navy Seal))Host: Jeff PelizzaroEpisode Number: 369Podcast: The 18STRONG PodcastPartners: Linksoul, 1stPhorm Summary Join us as we sit down with Bobby Holland, the retired Navy SEAL whose love for golf blossomed into the creation of Hoolie Golf, a golf apparel brand embodying hard work, grit, and resilience. Listen in as Bobby shares his remarkable transition from an elite military operative to a passionate golf entrepreneur. His story is not just about picking up the game later in life, but how the competitive drive and discipline learned from the SEALs fueled his determination to improve his swing, even leading to the construction of a driving range during a combat deployment. Bobby’s journey is a vivid illustration of never being too late to chase new dreams and how skills honed in one aspect of life can profoundly impact another. Our conversation with Bobby is a tapestry of tales from action movies sparking a young boy’s dream of becoming a SEAL, to the mental toughness and training insights necessary to endure the challenges of BUD/S. Bobby brings to light the crucial role of relentless optimism and breaking down massive goals into manageable steps, a philosophy that not only saw him through the rigors of military training but also serves as a foundation for his entrepreneurial spirit. His reflections on the nostalgia of 80s action films and the camaraderie found in both military units and sports teams paint a picture of the interconnectedness of his past passions and current pursuits. In our discussion, Bobby doesn’t shy away from the personal challenges he’s faced, such as rebuilding strength after an injury or embracing the intricacies of golf fitness. He takes us through his commitment to mobility, functional range of motion, and how these have influenced his performance both in the gym and on the golf course. Through Hoolie Golf, Bobby is not just offering apparel; he’s fostering a community for golf enthusiasts and those with a growth mindset. So tune in for a dose of inspiration, a glimpse into the synergy between entrepreneurship and golf, and perhaps even pick up a few recommendations for your next walk-up song or must-read book. Bobby Holland’s Background Bobby Holland is a retired Navy SEAL Chief Warrant Officer who retired from the military in 2021 after 21 years of service. He joined the Navy in 2000, graduated SEAL training in late 2001, and spent the next two decades in the SEAL teams, deploying nine times around the globe. Halfway through his career, Bobby was introduced to golf and has been a passionate golfer ever since. After finishing his military service, Bobby went to graduate school at UCLA’s Anderson School of Management and it was there that he found the inspiration for his next career. In the Spring of 2023, Bobby co-founded and launched Hoolie Golf, a golf apparel company that offers uniquely badass golf polos, and golf hats for diehard golfers. Bobby hopes that through Hoolie, he can share his journey with golf and inspire other active-duty military and veterans to connect with this great game. Main Topics (00:04) Navy SEAL Turned Golf Apparel Entrepreneur Retired Navy SEAL Bobby Holland’s passion for golf led to building a range during deployment, showcasing hard work, grit, and resilience. (07:39) Journey From SEAL to Golf Entrepreneur A former SEAL’s unexpected journey of integrating golf into military life, leading to the creation of Hoolie Giolf apparel company. (15:29) From Action Movies to Navy SEALs Childhood passions shape our future, from action movies to SEAL training, with a nod to 80s nostalgia and camaraderie in sports and military units. (23:27) Mental Toughness and Training Insights Relentless optimism and progressive training in Navy SEALs, addressing media portrayal and underwater tests with humor. (29:59) Hoolie Golf Hoolie Golf brand’s origins, ethos, and appeal to resilient, growth-minded individuals who use mental discipline techniques from Navy SEAL experience. (41:31) Improving Mobility and Fitness Progress Overcoming physical limitations, setting fitness goals, and utilizing social media for ongoing development. (46:19) Fitness and Business Resilience Incorporating new fitness routines, grit and resilience, and the future plans for a golf community. (52:07) Entrepreneurship and Golf for Veterans Entrepreneurship and military service, therapeutic benefits of golf for veterans, pop culture debate, personal insights, and book recommendations. Follow Bobby Holland Instagram: @hooliegolf Instagram: @leadbobholland Website: HoolieGolf.com Links Mentioned @DelusionallyConfident Episode Partners: LINKSOUL: For your 20% discount on LINKSOUL gear, go to 18strong.com/linksoul or click the logo above. 1st Phorm: Try any of the 1st Phorm products with FREE SHIPPING, go to 1stphorm.com/18strong.com (By using this link, you will be entered into our Monthly 1st Phorm Giveaway!) More Cool Stuff to Check Out: To continue the conversation and ask any questions you may have, head over to the 18STRONG Movement group on Facebook. 18STRONG Pro Shop (Get your 18STRONG gear!) 18STRONG Resources (All of the cool stuff we recommend: products, books, golf stuff, etc – and discount codes for the 18STRONG Crew) Want the full episode transcript? (click the “+” ????????) 0:00:04 – Jeff PelizzaroThe 18 Strong Podcast, episode Number 369 with Bobby Holland from Hoolie Golf. What’s up, guys? Welcome back to the 18 Strong Podcast, where we’re here to help you build a stronger game, because we believe every golfer deserves to play better, longer. In this episode we have Bobby Holland from Hoolie Golf. Bobby is a retired Navy SEAL that started a golf apparel company, so this episode we get to talk about all of his stories from overseas and his deployments, his training for buds and seals and how that has really impacted not only his golf game but also building a business in the world of golf. And we definitely dive into his addiction as a golfer so much of an addiction that he built his own driving range on one of his combat deployments, where he literally had to go out and shag golf balls in the moon dust to go pick up the range balls. So this episode is all about hard work, grit and resilience, which is what the Hoolie brand is all about and really what we’re all about here at 18 Strong. So you’re really going to enjoy this one with Bobby Holland. All partners over at Linksoul have been providing us with the best apparel for both on the course and off the course, from polos to t-shirts like the one I have on right now. Everything that they have is meant to be worn from the golf course to wherever you’re going next, whether that be casual, whether that be to the beach there’s all different options over there. So go to 18strong.com slash Linksoul. You’ll get 20% off of anything in your cart over on Linksoul’s website. Go again 18strong.com slash Linksoul for our favorite brand of apparel, for anything on the golf course and off. Now let’s get to this week’s interview, bobby Holland. Welcome to the 18 Strong podcast. Hi, jeff, thanks for having me. Absolutely, this is going to be awesome. I’ve been digging into the brand Hoolie a little bit, but rumor has it that you never really played golf until what it was 2011, and then took just one round and you were all in. 0:02:19 – Bobby HollandThere’s it, man. I think a lot why I created this brand was this kind of out of nowhere love that I found for the game. And there’s a lot of other people like me that you’re not all Hoolie’s pick up golf late, but there’s all folks like us, like me, that did pick it up late and fall in love, man, and it just triggered that. Being a seal, being an athlete, being a competitor and then finding this thing that you can’t do very well Kind of drove me nuts and got hooked and yeah, man, it’s been a fun journey and I mean so passionate about the game that I opened up my own golf apparel company, right. 0:03:00 – Jeff PelizzaroCrazy, that’s awesome. When I first saw, I saw a post about you when you were on Jaco’s podcast and I was like, oh my gosh, I got to get Bobby on the show because this is just. This is so cool to hear a guy that was in the seals, just like the rest of us. This game boggles our minds, completely right, and it’s so frustrating, it’s so hard and I could only imagine that you as an elite level operator coming into something. It’s just this little white ball sitting on a tee and all I got to do is hit it down there. That’s got to be easy, right. How frustrating was it coming into the game at that level, coming out from your background? 0:03:36 – Bobby HollandYeah, I mean you’re hitting the nail on the head. Two weeks back at the Pebble Beach Pro-Am I’m not sure if you caught the video of Tom Brady Duffin it off the tee, I mean that says it all You’re talking about arguably one of the best competitors of our generation picks up a golf club and having a hard time. And yeah, man, it’s one of those things that I still struggle with because I want to be so much better. Unfortunately, life and business and other things get in the way and I just do what I can. But I love the challenge. I mean, that’s really what drives me is, every time you show up to the golf course is a legit opportunity that you can have your best round, and it can happen like that. Both of my best rounds were exactly like that. Never saw them come in. It’s not like my swing was in super great shape, so there’s a little bit of that kind of gambler mentality. But the chase, the hunt, yeah, I love it, man. 0:04:38 – Jeff PelizzaroSo for those of the listeners that don’t know your story, don’t know the story behind Hoolie and everything, give us just a little background on you, obviously Navy Seals, but kind of tell us a little. I know you played football, so give us a little bit of that. And about some of the tours, how many tours you went on, and then we’ll dive into where Hoolie came from and go from there. 0:04:58 – Bobby HollandSure, I’m a California kid, born and raised up in a place called Fresno, Actually lived in Clovis that’s the same hometown as Bryce and DeChambeau, by the way but yeah, just kind of a wiry kid, you know. You’d like to mix it up a little bit. I played football and in wrestling. Those were my two big sports up until high school and then I was all in on football and that was just a big part of my upbringing as an athlete and it’s where I got into fitness in general. So I mean, we started strength training, powerlifting back there in high school and I’ve been doing that ever since, so kind of grew love for that as well. Well, anyways, I found myself at the end of high school the big so what that most of us face. What am I doing now? And I didn’t quite have it figured out, I went, Peter, around in a community college for a couple of years and it was in that time that I, you know, the idea of becoming a SEAL came to be and I basically devoted the next 18 months of two years to train to be a SEAL and that was like the first time I had, you know, set a goal really, and it was quite a lofty goal, had to teach myself how to run, swim, all those things. I ended up joining the Navy in January 2000 and went straight in, went to boot camp, went to A school, which is like your specialty rating, and then I went to Buds, which is the SEAL selection course, and then got through 9-11, hit and then I graduated SEAL qualification training two months later and then went to my first SEAL team and from there I just did a bunch of deployments, was pretty active. I did I think 9 deployments total. Not all of them were combat sandbox deployments, but did a bunch. Did 5 to Iraq, did a really really short one to Afghanistan, bounced around some other parts of the world, but had a really good career. Like you know, good timing. Some people may disagree but I came in the SEAL teams to do that job and you know, right after 9-11, we were busy last two decades, pretty damn busy. And yeah, we were talking before the show started. You know about picking up golf about 12, 13 years ago and kind of wasn’t meant to be. It was one of those things that I didn’t have an aversion to golf, I just didn’t get it. Yeah, you know what I mean. I mean that was it. I was cut from this cloth. I like hardcore music, I like punk rock, I like in the gym, I like doing things pushing myself. I just didn’t get it. And we had an opportunity. We were actually waiting to deploy. One of the guys suggested hey, let’s take the boys out. We had some time like our deployment got delayed, so we went out and I mean it literally happened in the course of I’m sure it was a god-awful long round of a five-hour round. I fell in love with golf. I hit a couple of shots out there and it was just perplexed Like you know why can’t I do this every time Went, got clubs and then it just metastasized from there, you know. So I was halfway into my career, being at SEAL, still operating, doing all the stuff. How do you make this work? But yeah, I traveled with my golf clubs everywhere, took them on some combat deployments. One deployment wasn’t in the combat zone but it was in the Middle East. We had this compound, this giant like moon dust compound, huge, open. Well, I ended up building myself a range there. So I got like a some plywood and I built a platform like in the middle of nowhere basically, and I brought 300 range balls with me that a golf course was nice enough to donate and I would just go. Anytime I had some off time I’d go hit in my range, you know. But yeah, so you know, fast forward. Some some years later did another decade or so in the teams and then found myself you know, my time in the teams. It just basically expired. I was at the end of my career, you know, around the 15 year mark. I transitioned from what we call an operator, which is someone who’s in a SEAL platoon being deployed to do SEAL missions. I got pulled from that and basically was in various managerial leadership positions, running training et cetera. So did that for the latter part of my career and then was trying to find something to do. Really, I mean, that’s that’s where I found myself. I knew it was my time to get out and I ended up going to business school. Ucla has a executive MBA program, so had some buddies who had gone through that and said really great things and I thought that would be a good kind of you know, runway out of the teams into real life. So went to that and or started that, I should say and near the start of that program I had the epiphany for what would become Hoolie, because it wasn’t exactly what it looks like now, but I had an idea and I brought it up. It was a concept that I brought up during a. Basically, they have an entrepreneurial pipeline, a series of classes that you take either you have to join a team or you have to build a team. So I said, to hell with it, man, let’s, let’s give it a go, see what I can do. So I had to recruit my team, had to pitch the idea to them, and then basically, we took it through a series of classes and kind of graduated from one class to the next, end up being our capstone. And then, by the end of it and I should back up, this is where I met my partner, Kevin Lee. He’s got a background in apparel, garment, sourcing operations, so perfect fit for where we are. But yeah, we, we basically built Hoolie in business school, you know, out of a shared passion for golf and in wanting to do cool things and and to create fun stuff, man. So, you know, fast forward another year. We launched last April. And here we are, man, some ten months later, you know, first year in business. Yeah, man, kind of ran through that pretty fast but uh. 0:12:06 – Jeff PelizzaroNo, there’s so many jumping off points that we’re gonna dive into. And you know most people they say like their golf addicted or they’re addicted to the game. But but you literally took your clubs on combat missions, you built it, you built your own personal driving range Overseas. You brought bucket, a bucket of balls. So like then I assumed you had to then go pick up, go shag those golf balls and bring them back and topple. 0:12:31 – Bobby HollandAmazing moon dust dude. So like I would be wearing these combat boots Because that stuff was like all over. Yeah, it was. I did not come back with 300 balls. 0:12:41 – Jeff PelizzaroI probably came back with, you know, 30 by the end of it now Did other guys like start to catch on with you and like, hey, bobby, can I go hit hit balls at your range? Or like, was it just you, you? 0:12:51 – Bobby Hollandknow it started that way. Well, when, when we first picked up golf, like a lot of us picked it up and it slowly, you know, they they kind of lost their interest, a lot of them. I continued that, but no, I was solo on that deployment. I was in a a staff position essentially, so I was. I was in staff hell some of the time. I would basically get out of the joint operation center and just to clear my mind and and, and, just you know, tried to stay in touch with golf because, you know, when I picked up golf, I ended up doing another Five deployments. These deployments can range in time. Some are pretty short. Yeah, I did a couple that were two or three months, but I did some that were seven months. So it’s a long, long ways to, or long, long time to be away from the game, especially when you’re trying to pick it up and you’re trying to build that momentum and all that like. So, yeah, I had a decade worth of like, making progress, making progress and then losing all that and then starting Rebuilding and it wasn’t until I had some stability in my job Around 2017 that I was actually able to to practice and to play pretty regularly and, and and. Then I mean shocker. I got like a lot better yeah. 0:14:15 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, yeah. I want to go back a little bit to to when you Were kind of transitioning and decided to go into the seals. Is that something, what made you even Decide to pick that path? And when you do like, do you decide then like, as you’re going in, like I’m shooting for the seals, or is it once, once you get through like the initial initial boot camp, that you then decide to go that direction? 0:14:39 – Bobby HollandYeah, I think it’s true. I mean it’s basically true today, as it was back then. But essentially my path was well, there’s one slight difference. My path was directly to the teams or to seal selection training buds. I had a ticket that was written in my contract. I did have to go to a, a you know school to. Basically, back then they used to give you a regular and I don’t mean this like in a bad way a regular Navy job, like there’s plenty of Navy jobs out there. Back in the day you had to have a Navy job in case that you don’t make it through seal training, you’d have something to fall back on. That has since changed. So now people can go basically to boot camp and then go straight to selection training. But yeah, for me, you know I Was raised on action movies, you know I it sounds silly as hell. You know a lot of people have this epiphany that, of course, like these, you know, wanting to serve, wanting to be on an, on the lead team. But I’m just, you know, a fan of action movies and just intrigued by the military in general. And you know I started looking into that. You know, obviously the military isn’t Isn’t 80s action movies, but nonetheless, you know that that took me down the path to start checking it out and looking into it, and the more I looked into it I was just really intrigued by it, you know. So back then, post Vietnam, there had been a couple conflicts, but it was just kind of clandestine missions and and working with, you know, in elite group of highly trained individuals, you know, being on that type of team, especially playing team sports, was very attractive to me. And again, I’m a young man in my early 20s, like what else am I doing? I Didn’t have some other path that I was like weighing my options. I’m sure I would have figured something out, but it seemed intriguing, seemed exciting. I was looking for a little bit of action man. 0:16:52 – Jeff PelizzaroSo there we go, yeah complete side note, but have you watched the Arnold Schwarzenegger documentary on Netflix by chance? Yeah, that, the second portion, when they go back to all the 80s action movies, it like just brings back such a good feeling of you know, just watching him. And Sylvester Stallone is like the movie Predator and you know Cobra and all those movies. So when you said that it just brought flashbacks of that, it made me feel so good to watch. Those dude brought me back to the childhood Dude that. 0:17:20 – Bobby HollandThat’s it, man. I mean, you know they used to say he view will rot your brain. Well, I mean, if this may be a case where rot in my brain, but hopefully in a good way, where I was a productive member of society, in the military, you know awesome. 0:17:35 – Jeff PelizzaroSo Then, when you are getting ready to go to the seals, you said you trained for 18 months or beyond. How did you even know what to train for, how to train? I know these days I think there’s actually like training programs built for you know if you want to be a seal, but I’m assuming back then there probably weren’t no, it was still at the early I say the early stages of the internet. 0:17:57 – Bobby HollandBut, like my awareness of the internet, I guess it started, you know, 80s or early 90s, but People weren’t really using that like they do today until the early 2000s, you know late 90s. So late 90s is when I was starting to train and, no, there wasn’t a whole lot of information out there. So there were a couple books. I picked up a couple books and that was kind of it, you know. So I had an understanding they had published what the requirements were for buds training. So it’s like you know what the run times are, you know what the swim times are, you know what the pull-ups are, you know what the test gates are. To a certain degree, you know that there’s a 50 meter underwater swim, you know that there’s a drown proofing evolution. So it’s like, okay, I will just go do those things in abundance until I feel super, super confident about it. And so when I was saying before, this was my first time, you know, making a goal and achieving it, this was also my first time building a fitness plan, you know, because to this point I had done what was prescribed to me during training. You know football, wrestling, what you know, right, Whatever that is but being able to figure this out. So I ended up doing, you know, I we were running close to 30 miles a week and we built up to it. So we started doing three miles at a time, three became four and then we were doing six miles a day, doing a lot of overtraining too as well, but I was also doing a lot of calisthenics, so a lot of push-ups, a lot of pull-ups, a lot of body weight stuff and then a lot of water stuff. You know we were doing just swimming, just god-awful swimming. One of the strokes that that they mandate for seal training is called the side stroke or the combat side stroke, and it’s, it’s super boring. Had to learn that and I would swim for two miles in a you know 50 meter pool, which, oh, it’s awful. 0:19:56 – Jeff PelizzaroWhat’s, what is that, sir like? Can you describe that stroke to us? 0:19:59 – Bobby HollandYeah, it’s uh. I mean, you know, basically you’re on your side and so what you’re doing is you’re Basically gliding through the water. It’s it’s meant for to be able to swim someone out, Like a bloody, like if there’s a. You’re trying to swim out of a combat situation. You can, you can tow your buddy and basically swim one-handed, but essentially you’re you’re kind of swimming on your side and you’re just reaching, gliding through and basically trying to do it. You know, in a way, that your, your head is just barely Coming up, your mouth is just basically barely surfacing above the water, because the more that your head’s upright, the more drag that you’re creating. So you know you’re trying to glide through there. It’s a very effective stroke. I mean, I I Don’t swim that often but I could go, do you know I I could go crank out a long swim right now, just because that is a pretty efficient stroke that you can just do for a long time. But yeah, I had to teach myself that. And then, you know, had to get into all the other stuff the breath holding stuff, the, the underwater swims, the not tying, all those things and really there wasn’t a whole. I mean, if there was YouTube this would have been so much easier, because it’s like now on YouTube there’s all this stuff about breath holding techniques. You know how to get that heart rate down. You could just watch free divers, watch what they do. Yeah, this guy’s got it made. They got all the information. But yeah, you know was one of those things that I Didn’t do it perfect, but I did a lot of what I did and I was in damn good shape and I was very, very much prepared for for buzz training. So mission accomplished there. 0:21:49 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah. So let me ask you this obviously, with YouTube, we can watch and learn anything on YouTube. Now, right, and there’s so much more information. Guys and girls can go and learn a lot more about what, what the techniques are. But then and I heard this on when you’re on Jaco’s podcast and talking about like, you can have all the information, you can have all the techniques. But going into buds is different. Like being able to get through buds, I guess it requires way more than just knowing techniques and stuff. So what would you say is the differentiator between the guys that make it through and the guys that don’t make it through? 0:22:28 – Bobby HollandYeah, it’s, it’s interesting. It’s not fitness level, I mean, it’s all. It’s all in between the years and it is. It’s a Grid and resilience. That’s what it is, you don’t know. There’s tall, skinny guys, there’s short, fat guys, there’s everything in between. There’s these stilly-eyed beast You’re like that that dudes for sure gonna make it through and equates day one one. So like you can’t tell just by looking at someone and really and you can’t tell by talking to someone, because I’ve also been on the instructor side you have to put them through this crucible and you know you have guys who had some troubled childhoods and then you have guys who are elite athletes and everything in between. But I think all bring a certain amount of grit and resilience that Is baked into them. Either they were born with it or they developed it, you know, prior to coming to the teams. But yeah, that’s it, man. I mean, if you can imagine Having the worst day of your life, every single day, I mean that that is what, that is what gets people, because that’s what buds is. You were having the worst day your life and it’s even worse than the day was yesterday, and At the end of the day you get to go back to your, your barracks. You get to eat, you know dinner, and hang out for a little bit at least early on training, before you’re doing other tactical type stuff, and Then you just sit there in your bed thinking like I’m gonna have the worst day of my life tomorrow, you know, oh, my god, yeah, and that lasts for six, seven months of that. So I mean it’s kind of that mental torture of and you know, please don’t don’t focus on the word torture there. Buzz training is not tortured, but there is that mental component which is torturous, I should say of like man, how am I gonna get through this program? And the old adage how do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time? And that’s it, these things. And one thing I hope that I get to do more of is talk about mindset. I think that’s one thing that we can contribute. We’re not the only ones who share this mindset, but that’s it, man. I mean it’s been able to have this relentless optimism that I’m going to get through whatever comes next. I just know I am, I know it’s going to suck, I know it’s going to hurt. I’m going to try to find a way to make it fun or do whatever I got to do to get through it. Some people can’t do that, these people who are over-programmed they’re excellent runners, excellent swimmers, elite athletes coming into the program. They’ve never been pushed that far and they can’t get through that mental component of being able to reconcile like, oh my God, I’m having the worst day of my life and it’s just going to keep going like this. Not only the worst day of your life, but it gets progressively harder in terms of the things that you’re tasked to do. You’re constantly having to do more and more and more. Aside from the mindset part of it, going through seal training and career in the seal teams also taught me how to take on goals and other things In a similar manner of you can’t run a marathon overnight. It’s not like I can just turn that on and all right, I’m going to run a marathon tomorrow. No, but you know what you can train today. There’s a methodical way to train to develop the strength, the endurance, the confidence and to get yourself there. That’s essentially what seal training is is. I mean, we start people would laugh man like for where we end up and we’re talking like tactical training, where we’re busting into rooms and firing off rounds within close proximity inches of each other, highly, extremely dangerous and making life and death decisions. All in a split second. We get there from training I mean this really progressive training pipeline to where you take off these little bites of the elephant and then one day you end up there and you look back and it’s like man, how did I get here? 0:27:11 – Jeff PelizzaroThat’s unbelievable. I mean just hearing some of the stories that you guys talked about on the podcast that I listened to and, obviously, just watching different theatrical portrayments of what you guys do, and just to think about the training that you go through. Now, refresh my memory, were you in the documentary that they did? Did I hear you guys talking about that? So for those of you that haven’t seen anything about Bud’s training, there are videos and documentaries that you can go watch, and I heard that you were even kind of like a mis-portrait in one of the scenes. Is that right? 0:27:50 – Bobby HollandYeah, I definitely was and I make sure that every opportunity I can to clear my good name because I was very proud of in second phase. Second phase is the water competency phase and I believe it was two months back then. But there’s a series of grueling underwater challenges that you basically do where you’re threatening yourself to drown underwater. I mean, that’s basically just it. You’re doing things that are beyond your ability to without error. How long can you survive underwater, given this challenge here? So I was very proud that all those I think there were seven different tests that we did I passed all those the first time. So I was the first time. Every time guy. But yeah, you know it is what it is. They got someone else failing in evolution, but it’s all. Just man, I really don’t care. I think it’s funny, but I do give that guy shit every time I see him. That’s awesome. 0:28:58 – Jeff PelizzaroLet’s take a second to thank our sponsors over at 1st Phorm, and this week I want to highlight their Formula One post-workout protein shake. I use this thing pretty much every day after my workouts because, let’s face it, being here in a gym working all the time with clients putting on a podcast, it can sometimes be tough to get my protein in on a regular basis. And so I know that with the post-workout shake the Formula One, first of all, it’s fast acting. So right after your workout is a great time to get your protein in to help build your muscles, get yourself stronger and repair what you’ve done in the gym. But also, if you don’t know if you’re going to be able to get your protein in in your regular meals, it’s just a great way to make sure that you’re supplementing and hitting those marks. So be sure to go over to 1stphorm.com forward slash 18 strong to get your 1st Phorm Formula One protein shake, and everyone that enters through that link is going to be put into a drawing every single month for free 1st Phorm products. So again, go over to 1stphorm.com forward slash 18 strong. So let’s talk about the name Hoolie and your role, and I mean I only know a little bit. So, from what I understand, you were a breacher, and that’s kind of where the name Hoolie came from, right. 0:30:13 – Bobby HollandYeah, that’s it. So you know, I’m getting ready to start business school and I had this epiphany. It actually started out as a golf bag, so it was this idea for a golf bag. Within that, basically, I had the idea. I spent a whole weekend ideating and drawing on it but within that like five hour period I had come up with the name already a variation of the name, but I like the way that Hoolie sounded and, yes, like to backup, Hoolie is. It’s a tool that we use. I was a breacher. It was my job to basically gain access into enemy compounds. So using explosives, torches, mechanical tools, manual tools, Hoolie tools, basically this giant pry bar thing. Firemen use a halogen tool, Hoolie tools kind of a bastardized version of that, but it’s just normally looking crowbar thing and you know backing up before we even get to. You know the symbolism of that. It was just the name. I was like man, it just sounds kind of cool. I wanted something that connected my prior background and then something that you know connected to golf and I didn’t imagine that there would be any connection there, but I liked how it sounded. You know, and in terms of the symbolism, it’s this tool that we’re using to break open doors, to break through something being disruptive. You know I like that. And then I ended up researching the word and, lo and behold, Hoolie is an obscure Scottish golf term that means blown a strong wind. So and I got to go to Scotland last spring and I was really nervous because you read things on the internet but I was able to confirm. I was like like hey, what does Hoolie mean to you? And sure enough, man, that’s, that’s a phrase that they use in the old country and that’s the symbolism. Is just it married? I thought it was perfect and that’s how Hoolie was born. 0:32:24 – Jeff PelizzaroSo earlier you mentioned you know we were talking about getting through buds and you mentioned that getting through buds it’s grit, resilience, and that’s something that I wrote down from your website specifically is like the Hoolie golfer. It’s something that believes that hard work, grit and resilience will conquer all. So give us a little bit more about you know. Who is the Hoolie golfer? What, what is that ethos, what’s that mantra and who? Who is it? 0:32:49 – Bobby HollandYeah, so we are a golf brand for hardcore golfers, ok, you know, maybe folks that don’t fit into the cookie cutter mold of what you know a traditional golfer is, you know, although golf has changed a lot last couple of years so you have a lot of other different types of personalities out there. But, you know, I mean really Hoolie is for minibaction, growth minded folks who are competitive about life, who like to get after it off the course as much as they do on the course, you know. So, basically, guys, you know, I don’t, I don’t see like myself in that, like, ok, how many Navy SEAL golfers are there? But there’s a lot of guys like me out there, you know, whether they’re gym rats, athletes, former athletes, hunters, fighters, surfers, these guys who are passionate about, you know, conquering life and they’re equally passionate about conquering golf. So it’s people who are essentially in the hunt, trying to find the best versions of themselves, trying to try to find that on the golf course and trying to find that off the golf course. And you know, one of the things that I love about golf, which is it’s sneaky, like you know, backing up to our earlier conversation, I didn’t get golf, you know, 20, 30 years ago. But when I got it it’s like, oh man, there’s so many parallels to all the things that I was doing, you know, as a SEAL in terms of being able to master your mind, your body, the environment, your strategy involved. Let’s talk about the golf swing. You know the intricacies there of the golf swing. You know kinematic sequence and all these fun things. But, yeah, man, that’s, you know, that’s really the spirit of the brand, and I also want to caution anytime I’m talking about who these now is. We have truly customers who are, you know, every walk of life. So I think it’s more of a shared mindset than it is a particular background. Yeah, people who have a certain spirit and, you know, just like to get after it, I guess. 0:35:08 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, that’s what really drew me to you guys is, first, just the idea and the mindset of you know this is about more than just lowering your handicap or you know, like, how far you can hit a ball although watching some of your videos looks like you can hit a ball quite far Never know. But you know it’s about the mentality of going out, having a great time with your buddies, telling to your best you want to be the best at whatever you do physically, mentally. I’m curious just from the mental side of things, because golf is such a mental game and we kind of can make ourselves crazy about it. But obviously you guys are known for your performance under pressure. What are there any techniques that you could relay to us that you go through when you’re out on the course and maybe something’s a little frustrating you hit a bad shot and you’re trying to get yourself focused and back in the game. 0:36:03 – Bobby HollandYeah, I think box breathing is huge. So being able to, you know, reduce your sympathetic response, and that literally just means getting your heart rate down. You know one thing I love all these fitness tracker tools and so you know I have a fitness watch and that’s a great indicator I could look down and I know what my resting heart rate is, I know what my, like, active heart rate is and you know, being able to breathe, being able to get that heart rate down and control that kind of at will is extremely helpful. Because, look man, this may surprise people, but I get nervous on the golf course, like when I’m on the first tee. You bet your ass I’m nervous. I got the little barflies. I don’t want to. You know, I’m just as likely to shank a ball as anyone, you know, as the next guy out there. It happens. So being able to do that, that’s key. I mean, breathing is really, really important there. The other thing, from a mindset perspective, is just trying to approach it like like I don’t care what happens, I don’t care about the outcome, and that was something that I used, I mean, in, you know, being a seal all the time, right, so like we do things to where obviously, the more you do like like jumping out of an airplane, the more, the more you do that, the more you get comfortable with that. But yeah, especially when you’re new to that, the thought of jumping out of an airplane can be quite a nerve in, right. Yeah, but finding these little kind of mental tools that you can dig into for, you know, a variety of things whether you’re on the golf course or off the golf course, are useful. That’s. That’s kind of one of the things that you know. Just trying to take the, you know, the result. Try to take don’t worry about the result because you can’t control the result. Control your controlables and whatever is going to happen is going to happen out there, right, and you know, I think having a positive mindset and not focusing about the negative outcomes would help out a lot of people and any major swing issues that folks have, such as myself. 0:38:24 – Jeff PelizzaroWhat about the physical side? Obviously you’re still very fit and that’s a big part of your life, I’m assuming. I would also imagine you’ve got some, some issues being banged up and injuries that you’ve, you know, gotten over the years, whether that be in football or combat or whatever it is. How big of a role does that still play in your everyday life and and for your golf? 0:38:48 – Bobby HollandIt’s huge, yeah, and I, you know, I’m starting to evolve how I train and a lot of that is a product of a. I think I’d mentioned to you I went through a program this last month to address some of those injuries and things that I’ve accumulated over two decades of not only being a seal which is a pretty damn hard job, especially carrying heavy loads, jumping out planes, injured landings, you know, running, gunning, falling down, whatever, but being an athlete for that long Fitness has been. I fell in love with fitness, you know, back in when I started sports and it just never stopped. So, absent my love for golf, I would still be doing that and it has proven to me time and time again to be extremely, you know, beneficial to you know, I mean just your mental state of mind and avoiding illness, injury, et cetera, but so extremely important. I am having to evolve how I do things. But yeah, man, you know, in terms of how, how I think it benefits golf, I’m really excited about the program I’m starting right now, to be honest with you, because the last couple of years I’ve been training in a very linear way fitness, like basically doing straight up power lifting moves, squat, you know, pressing pulls basic stuff squat bench you know, very linear and I have been throwing in a little bit of golf things here or there, but you know, nonetheless, I think having having a natural ability to summon power right through power lifting, I think it’s helpful in all things and of course it is helpful in the golf swing if you know how to harness it. But you can look at some of the golfers out there who are skinny little beans, who do it a much different way. So you know it’s more important to have the right technique and and to have the right mobility and flexibility, and that that’s an area where I’m just starting with this new program. So, to back up, I’ve dealt with a whole host of injuries and I won’t spend much time talking about them because I could go on and on. But you know my shoulders are jacked. You know my knees I’ve had multiple knee surgeries. My back looks like an S, like my spine, you know. So, despite all this stuff, fitness has allowed me to be extremely active and to keep pain at bay. Right, and I really attribute that because I’ve had periods like man, circa 2022, I couldn’t lift anything overhead. I could not lift a bar overhead. I could not bench press, which has been like my favorite exercise since, since youth, but I was able to build up all last year. I was. I really wanted to just fight through it. I was doing physical therapy, but I was determined to build strength. I ended up putting on some weight, so I’m a little bit heavier. When you say I’m, I’m a fit guy Thank you for the compliment. I’m relatively fit. I got some work to do. I got some goals. I’m on a good track now to get better, but mission accomplished last year. My strength like went like really you know really well, and I got through you know that issue I was having there. I went from like 20% to like 90% with shoulders, same with with me. So I’m in a good spot. But what I’m really excited to be doing now, and where my fitness is evolving, is I’m doing a lot of rotational stuff, mobility stuff and trying to get more function, range, emotion out of my hips, out of my shoulders. So I’m really excited. My golf swing I golfed this morning. It’s kind of a mess because a lot of this work I did through this. The Warrior Fitness program is a month long program that I just went through. It’s a ran by the or sponsored by the Navy Seal Foundation, run by a group called Virginia High Performance. It’s an outstanding program for spec war veterans but basically it’s a holistic approach to diet, nutrition, mental health. It’s like full optimization there, went through that, was able to regain some mobility and function through that program and I’m going to keep working on that. I’m really excited Now, now that I’m able to rotate more and do some other things. I’ve got to figure out how how my new swing is going to work, you know. 0:43:45 – Jeff PelizzaroThat’s interesting. So you actually have seen so much improvement in some of your mobility that you’re noticing that, hey, my golf swing is almost a little loosey-goosey now. 0:43:54 – Bobby HollandYeah, yeah, yeah, it’s a little bit. I have some things I’m trying to work out on my swing, but I’ve got some improvement with my hips and my kind of pelvic rotation. There and my right shoulder we made a lot of ground. It was, you know, again like I’ve been moving very linear, but you put, you know, certain parts of my body in awkward positions and I lack mobility. So I think some of the swing faults that I have right now are really really because of some of these deficiencies that I have. I’m unable to rotate in such a way that I have to compensate with my arms or whatever. So, tbd, man, we’ll see how it goes. Hopefully it’s not a train wreck for too long. But you know, I look forward to starting that out. But, man, I just feel better. You know, you kind of don’t know, especially as you age, sometimes the decline or the lack of mobility, it just kind of slowly tapers off. And it wasn’t until, you know, we’ve been doing a lot of back and core work, manual therapy, cairo type stuff, and then mobility exercises, and it wasn’t until I did about two weeks of that that I’m moving around. What the? It feels good. You know, it’s not like I was walking around like the hunchback and Notre Dame. You know I didn’t feel that bad, but I didn’t know what good felt like either. 0:45:20 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, yeah, that’s interesting. So you and I talked a couple of days ago and we were talking about the Rotex motion stuff. Were you introduced to them through Virginia High Performance or was that? Did you meet Dr Joe separate? 0:45:34 – Bobby HollandI met Dr Joe separate, yeah. Yeah, one of the cool things I’ve been surprised by social media and one of the pleasant surprises has been I’ve been connected with some really, really neat people and people that just reached out, that found the brand and you know much like you did. And Joe was the same. You know he’s. He’s a old retired frogman so and we actually served in the same SEAL team not the same time, different times, but great guy, he reached out and fully support what he’s doing. He’s doing some really neat stuff there. I just started the Rotex program, really excited for that, to augment the program that I’m already working on. But, yeah, go check them out at, you know, rotexmotioncom Great products there. 0:46:16 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, so, and we love, we love Dr Joe and the Rotex. I’ve got one sitting right outside the door here was just using it with the client this morning. So just give us a little idea. How are you using it? What, what are you guys working on, or what did he kind of go through with you a little bit? 0:46:30 – Bobby HollandYou know, I’m just using their app, so you go through their app and they have. So what I’m working on? The there’s a shoulder mobility set of exercises there, and then also I don’t remember what the other one is called, but you know, basically the rotational stuff, the kind of hips, pelvic type stuff, so that that is the kind of floor, floor based stuff or the floor models and the. Yeah, there’s just some great exercise man, like I love the handheld one. There’s some really cool stretches being able to, you know, internal rotation, I guess it is. 0:47:14 – Jeff PelizzaroWell, yeah, getting getting an external rotation where you kind of like kind of going in up on the wall like that. 0:47:19 – Bobby HollandYeah, there’s some there’s some really good ones there. So the program that that I I got out of the Warrior Fitness program has some other stuff in there, you know, non-rotex type stuff, and I think it’s really good compliment. And again, man, I just just started this program but I’m, I’m like, really excited. You know, I have a garage gym which I’ve carefully, you know, built over the last 12, 13 years I guess. So I have everything that I need here. But I’ve been working out with a new, renewed sense of purpose and energy of you know, doing doing something fun and new, and it just feels good, man, I can feel that I’m activating things that had been neglected for too long. And yeah, you know, it’s like I’m really strong at squats and bench and pressing. But these other things, you know, I think for longevity and just for all around fitness and mobility are pretty damn important and there’s huge crossover. So, aside from, obviously, the benefits I get from my daily life, I’m now doing things that I know are going to have an impact the rotational stuff, the core stuff. Yeah, pretty psyched on it. 0:48:32 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, and to be able to do it for that’s the coolest thing about golf to do it for decades. Right Like this. This is a. This is a long gameplay. 0:48:41 – Bobby HollandWell, there’s no doubt in my mind, like my best golf is is ahead of me, and I’ve there’s plenty of. You know, guys, that I’ve seen staying plenty fit into their fifties. So, and, and you know, look at Phil Mickelsand he’s been able to keep up speed. So you know, if you can keep up strength speed, you can play. You know, I’m not going to play at an elite level, but I can play with enough swing speed to play the type of golf that I enjoy playing, and fitness is the path to get there. 0:49:11 – Jeff PelizzaroAwesome. So what’s on the horizon for Hoolie as you’re moving, you know we’re getting into 2024 and moving forward. I mean, it sounds like things are cranking and you’re you’re busy, as can be. So what’s? What’s going on over there? 0:49:23 – Bobby HollandYeah, you know we are cranking man, but we are still a first year business. We’re still relatively new, um, you know we’re not a known entity nationally yet. So the goal is to just get the message out and, uh, get more people to fall in love with us. And you know our goal, aside from selling stuff, is to create this community of like-minded you know, golf obsessed, gross minded folks out there. I’d like to get after it and you know we’re looking to get the message out there more. You know doing, doing, uh, shows like yourself, um, continue to push the brand out there, um, get more traction where we can. And to continue to grow and to, you know, expand our, our product lines. Um, that’s it, man. You know just kind of doing what we’re doing, more of it. And again, like just very optimistic because you know we’ve reached a lot of people, um, a lot more than I thought we would in the first year, but we’re just getting started here. So, like so much room to go. And, um, we have a new spring line that comes out here in a couple of weeks, excited to launch that. We got some really, really neat designs. I’m wearing one of them right now. Um, so really cool there and it’s a. You know, that’s one thing that I’m very passionate about is creating stuff. So, uh, we have a great designer, um, kevin give a quick shout out to to Kevin there who helps us out. Um, but you know, we we also I have a creative interest in in what we do and what we make, and so being able to think of these new things and and watch people fall in love with like it’s just a really neat thing to do, um kind of scratches my creative ish as well. Uh, so we got some fun stuff to launch here and I think people are going to love it and we’ll just see where it goes. Man, yeah. 0:51:17 – Jeff PelizzaroWhat would you say is something that you’ve taken from your your time as a CEO and just all of your training that has really helped you from the business aspect of things. 0:51:25 – Bobby HollandI think what we were talking about earlier, that grit and resilience, is key. There’s a lot of parallels to my career as a special operator, to what I’m doing now. If you look at, I’m in a ambiguous environment, you know. Maybe Don’s are stacked against me. Um, you know, over task, under resourced. That’s what every startup, uh, you know, experiencing the same thing. Right, how do we figure out this problem? How do we get better from our mistakes? How do we develop capacity to do more? Um, I mean, they’re all parallels. It’s the same thing, it’s a different environment, it’s a different application. That’s part of why I fell in love with this whole thing. I I didn’t see myself as being an entrepreneur, but I had this idea and I had this kind of creative itch. I started scratching that and then then I started recognizing like, oh man, this isn’t really that much different, you know. So, for, for the veterans listening out there, you know, I I think you’ll get a lot of entrepreneurship. It’s not easy, it’s very challenging, it’s very rewarding. Um, and then backing up, talking about the grit, resilience aspect of it is not every day is easy. You know it’s. Uh, there’s ups and downs. You know when, if you’re a new business, new business. You are going to make mistakes, things are going to happen. You’re going to have to overcome If. If you can’t get through that, you just won’t survive. So, yeah, it’s all about overcoming those mistakes, getting better, improving and then, you know, just kind of head down, chin up, get after it. 0:53:05 – Jeff PelizzaroYou mentioned. You know, speaking to the veterans, I know you guys do a lot of work, or you personally do a lot of work with veterans with golf, and there’s a crossover there that and I’ve seen this with several different organizations that are utilizing golf to help veterans, whether they be wounded vets or just, you know, re-acclimating into society. What have you seen? What kind of positive benefits have you seen from golf that has really helped that population. 0:53:31 – Bobby HollandYeah, you know, and this is an area where I would continue to love to do more. I mean, like I’m very passionate about golf and very passionate about the veteran community. I think, you know, one of the things that I hope to do out of all this is to get more veterans into golf. You know, whether they’re, you know, veterans who moved on from service, who are looking for something to engage with, or they’re you know the wounded veteran population, there’s so much to get from the game. I think one thing that veterans struggle with in general is finding purpose after service right, and purpose comes in many different forms, obviously in the form of a career, having some sort of purpose that you can connect. You know that’s. You serve your country and you do so for however many years you serve, and then you leave that some struggle with. You know what’s next. How do I replace that feeling that I had of service of purpose? And though I don’t have that answer in terms of career-wise, everyone’s different there I think golf serves this little niche here. You know, I’m not saying golf is a purpose, but it’s like a micro-purpose. You know what I mean. 0:54:54 – Jeff PelizzaroLike it’s a reason. 0:54:55 – Bobby Hollandit’s something that gets you excited to get out of bed. It’s something that gets you excited to go outdoors, to go hang out with your buddies, to have this very difficult goal that you want to work towards, that you can improve, and that it’s just it’s going to be there for the rest of your life. I didn’t golf with these two gentlemen this morning, but I often get paired with these older gentlemen that are in their 80s and 90s, you know. So there’s this just love and spear for the game that I think veterans, you know more than others, would really benefit from. And aside from that, I think the therapeutic benefits of just being outdoors I think I golf early in the morning, so that’s a whole different experience. Like this morning we saw coyotes, you know. We saw deer, it’s beautiful. We saw the sunrise. Like it’s calming. I know saying calming and golf in the same phrase and get people riled up, but I mean for me it’s a. I never really thought about it, you know, over the years I was doing it until now, but it’s kind of like therapy out there, especially if you’re out there, you’re playing, walking on a course, you know, just squeezing it in out there. It’s good man. So, yeah, I would love to connect veterans to golf. Hopefully we can do that in the process and, as we grow the company definitely look forward to partnering with more of the folks that are, you know, doing that as well. 0:56:36 – Jeff PelizzaroAwesome. I just think that that’s such a neat objective and you see so many different organizations that are doing it and I’ve seen a couple of things that you guys have done and alluded to and, yeah, it’s just such a such an incredible game. There’s so many benefits. Like you said, it’s out in nature, You’re. You’re kind of fulfilling your competitive spirit, all these different pieces, and you’re constantly challenging yourself, you know, trying to get better. So that’s really cool. All right, my man, we’re going to close up with just a few of our traditional questions that we have here on the 18 strong podcast. Very curious to hear your answers. What’s in foremost? Caddy shack or happy Gilmore? 0:57:15 – Bobby HollandHey, both classics, but happy Gilmore. Oh, all right, All right, I was kind of expecting you to go the other way, tristan all right, what’s like, like, like if there was split with you know what percentage of people vote which way. 0:57:31 – Jeff PelizzaroI’m going to say it’s been. I don’t have an official tally. I would say it’s been mostly more caddy shack than happy Gilmore. I find that a lot of our guests who come from overseas across the pond are more happy Gilmore than a lot of the Americans and I typically find that if if anybody’s around my age and beyond, they’re usually usually cat caddy shack. So I’m 45. So it can be shot. But happy Gilmore, I love both of them. Love both of them All. Right, this one. I’m very curious to hear your answer. What would your walk up song be to the first T box? 0:58:09 – Bobby HollandDomination Pantera, not even a question. 0:58:11 – Jeff PelizzaroOh man, going hard, I like it. I like it. Is there a book that you like to recommend to people, or a book that has really meant something to you, that you’ve read or read multiple times and have even given as a gift? 0:58:23 – Bobby HollandAbsolutely it is. It’s called endurance and I think it’s a I’m not sure if there’s like a a different part shackled in is incredible voyage. I mean the book is endurance. It is my favorite book and I can’t believe they haven’t made a proper movie out of it. I think it’s the best, one of the best survival tales ever told. So those themes we were talking about, about grit, resides. It follows the 1915, shackleton expedition to Antarctica and I went to spoil it for your viewers, but some stuff goes down. It’s a tale of survival. It’s amazing. I love it. I mean there’s, there’s a you know some stuff about leadership, teamwork, grit, resilience. So good, go read it. 0:59:13 – Jeff PelizzaroAwesome, awesome. All right, if you could pick a celebrity for some and by celebrity that’s a loose term, could be anybody past present could be dead alive. Who are you picking for your for some? 0:59:25 – Bobby HollandAll right, man, I’m a child of the eighties, right? So Arnie Sly Corussell. 0:59:34 – Jeff PelizzaroI love it. I mean straight action movies, yep, awesome. All right, exclude well, I won’t. I normally say excluding Augustine and St Andrews, but you’re welcome to pick one of those. But I’ll ask you for a second one. But if we had the 18 strong jet fueled up, ready to go and I said, bobby, we’re going anywhere you want, we’re taking your celebrity for some and you get to play any course in the world, where are you going? 1:00:02 – Bobby HollandWell, you took my number one. It’s Augustine National man. That’s it. Number two would be Piners. Number two Awesome, I’ve been very fortunate. This last spring I got to play the old course, st Andrews. 1:00:16 – Jeff PelizzaroDid you really I? 1:00:17 – Bobby Hollanddid yeah and would you shoot? I didn’t shoot very well. I think I shot like a. I think it was an 89. But I had a strong finish at 17 and 18. His darkness set in. Yeah, that’s good. 1:00:34 – Jeff PelizzaroI love it. Setting the scene I love it. Okay, what’s the best piece of golf advice you’ve ever been given? 1:00:42 – Bobby HollandThis is a Bob Rattella quote. So damn, I don’t even remember what book it is, but it is love the challenge of the day, whatever it may bring. I think that’s very, very sound advice, that if you’re going to be a golfer, you need to embrace that, because if you’re spinning out of control every bad shot, every bad round, I mean why would you spend so much time being miserable? Right, it doesn’t help. 1:01:14 – Jeff PelizzaroYep Doesn’t help at all. Okay, is there a social media account that you like to follow that you think the 18 strong crew should check out? Could be golf related, could be anything. 1:01:23 – Bobby HollandYeah, I’m going to give you some random stuff, all right. So on YouTube, go check out. I know you’re going to like this, jeff Space Ice, and I expect you to text me back later because after five hours of binging that you’ll be like dude, so good. The other is there was a former Navy SEAL, was it John Allen? His handle is Mr Ballin and he does spooky, weird stories on YouTube. Really really good, mr Ballin, b-a-l-l-e-n. Really good. And I’ll give a shout out to my guy, the DoD King Carter. He got bounced off of his CBA golf handle from Meta for some reason. But he is that delusional confident. He got bounced off of that. Really he did. Yeah, Not sure why, but they booted his account, they shut him down. So go check out. 1:02:28 – Jeff PelizzaroNo way that’s delusional, confident Yep. Unreal. So, just for background, that’s exactly how I found out about Bobby and Hoolie Golf is because when Bobby was on the Jocko podcast you guys talked about, I think, Jocko brought up the DoD King and then I followed him for a little bit and I saw that online. So that’s crazy that that got booted. Okay, well, we’ll definitely put that in the show notes and give him a link there. For sure, bobby, this has been awesome. I can’t thank you enough for coming on the show. I’m really excited to see what’s to come with Hoolie in the next year, two years and beyond, but I love everything that you’re doing. Obviously, thank you so much for your service, first and foremost, you and everybody that you served with. But taking that into the golf world, I just think it’s such a cool crossover and it speaks so much to the 18 Strong crew and the mindset that we have here just about self-improvement and working hard, the grit, the resilience that you speak so, so greatly about. So really really appreciate your time coming on. Yeah, jeff thanks for having me on, man, thanks for listening to the 18 Strong podcast and if you found this episode helpful, don’t forget to share it with your friends. And, of course, go follow us over on Instagram at 18strong. Thanks again. We’ll catch up with you next week. Train hard, practice smart and play better golf.

Guest: Cody Wescott (Founder Cody Wescott Golf)Host: Jeff PelizzaroEpisode Number: 368Podcast: The 18STRONG PodcastPartners: Linksoul, 1stPhorm Summary Join me as I welcome Cody Wescott from Cody Wescott Golf and the Swing Heavy Lift Fast Program to the show for an insightful discussion that’s sure to up your golf game and fitness routine. We kick things off by exploring the relationship between strength training and golf performance, as Cody shares his candid take on traditional weightlifting versus golf-specific training. We dig into the essence of crafting an effective workout that balances what you enjoy and what truly benefits your game, while Cody challenges the idea of personal trainers and their impact on a golfer’s progress. Listen in as we tackle the multifaceted nature of golf training, focusing on the harmony of mobility, strength, and power. We break down his holistic approach to athlete development, as seen in his “Lift Every Swing Fast” program, which has successfully been adopted by numerous golfers. Cody and I also touch upon the often-overlooked importance of cardiovascular health for recovery, endurance, and the enjoyment of golf well into one’s later years. The inspiring story of Tony, an 85-year-old fitness enthusiast, serves as a powerful reminder that it’s never too late to embrace an active lifestyle. The conversation shifts to the nuances between golf exercises and drills, emphasizing the importance of selecting the right methods to enhance your game. We address how gym workouts should complement, not replace, swing drills, and the potential pitfalls of following fitness trends on social media. As we delve into muscle building and mobility, I underscore the evolution of muscle-building philosophies and the significance of nutrition in supporting both body composition and performance. Don’t miss this episode packed with practical advice and personal insights that could transform your approach to golf and fitness. Cody Wescott Cody’s journey in the fitness world spans decades, covering everything from bodybuilding and powerlifting to crossfit and pilates. Today, his primary focus is on training golfers, treating them like the athletes they truly are. His mission is straightforward: help golfers navigate the fitness landscape, finding the right training approach for their goals – without all the BS. Cody’s philosophy is his motto, the namesake of his flagship program, “Lift Heavy, Swing Fast.” His program has impacted hundreds of athletes globally, helping them look, play, and feel their best for the long haul. Main Topics (00:04) Optimal Golf and Fitness Training Nature’s impact on golf performance, incorporating fitness, traditional weight training, and the role of personal trainers. (09:44) Golf Performance Effective golf training programs include total body workouts, targeted mobility exercises, and strategic speed and power work. (14:56) Cardiovascular Health in Golf Longevity and Performance Cardio and resistance training in golf improve recovery, performance, and longevity, emphasizing the importance of prioritizing health in mid-life. (18:34) Fitness for Personal Transformation An 85-year-old man’s dedication to fitness, my sports background, and struggles with drugs and alcohol. (29:44) Golf Training and Exercise Nuances Golf exercises and drills have different purposes, with gym exercises complementing but not replacing them. Social media can influence fitness trends. (38:33) Muscle Building, Mobility, and Personal Training Nature’s muscle-building philosophy, RPE and Reps in Reserve, nutrition, golf-specific training, and maintaining muscle mass for efficient golf swing. Follow Cody Wescott Instagram: @codywescottgolf Website: CodyWescottgolf.com Links Mentioned How to Win Friends and Influence People – Dale Carnegie Diary of a CEO: The 33 Laws of Business – Steven Bartlett @BioLayne @Goob_u2 @menno.henselmans Episode Partners: LINKSOUL: For your 20% discount on LINKSOUL gear, go to 18strong.com/linksoul or click the logo above. 1st Phorm: Try any of the 1st Phorm products with FREE SHIPPING, go to 1stphorm.com/18strong.com (By using this link, you will be entered into our Monthly 1st Phorm Giveaway!) More Cool Stuff to Check Out: To continue the conversation and ask any questions you may have, head over to the 18STRONG Movement group on Facebook. 18STRONG Pro Shop (Get your 18STRONG gear!) 18STRONG Resources (All of the cool stuff we recommend: products, books, golf stuff, etc – and discount codes for the 18STRONG Crew) Want the full episode transcript? (click the “+” ????????) 0:00:04 – Jeff PelizzaroThe 18STRONG Podcast, episode number 368, with Cody Wescott from Cody Wescott, golf. What’s up guys? Welcome back to the 18STRONG Podcast, where we’re here to help you build a stronger game, because we believe that every golfer deserves to play better, longer. And this week we have Cody Wescott from Cody Wescott Golf and the Swing Heavy Lift Fast Program. This episode is a fun one for me because this is the first time I get to meet Cody and talk about the growth that he’s had, first of all in social media in the golf and fitness world, and I think he’s one of the guys putting out some of the best content when it comes to education in the golf and fitness world and really taking a no BS attitude and laying on what’s going to make your program most optimal. Is traditional weight training? Is traditional strength training good for your golf game? Yeah, it can be, but is it optimal for what you’re wanting to do and what your goals are in the gym? So we have some great conversations about what that looks like, what you want to do, what are the things that you want to put into your program simply because you like them, and what are the things you need to put in there because they’re going to work. And then we talk about a couple topics that Cody’s been pretty hard lined on, and that’s the difference between golf exercises and golf drills. Where is that crossover and where is the separation? And are you doing golf exercises or golf drills and are they really being effective in your training program? And then, lastly, we touch on a bit of a sensitive topic for probably a lot of the listeners of this show, for those of you that are coaches and trainers. But talking to the golfers out there, cody discusses why you may not need a personal trainer and why that actually might be detracting from your goals and detracting from your results, and we go have a great conversation around that. So you’re going to really enjoy this episode of the 18STRONG Podcast. Right after this, our partners over at Link Soul have been providing us with the best apparel for both on the course and off the course, from polos to t-shirts like the one I have on right now. Everything that they have is meant to be worn from the golf course to wherever you’re going next, whether that be casual, whether that be to the beach there’s all different options over there. So go to 18strong.com, slash link soul. You’ll get 20% off of anything in your cart over on Link Soul’s website. So again, 18strong.com. Slash link soul for our favorite brand of apparel, for anything on the golf course and off. Now let’s get to this week’s interview, tony Wescott. Welcome to the 18STRONG Podcast. 0:02:49 – Cody WescottHey, thanks for having me. 0:02:50 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, for sure, man. So this is really fun to finally get to connect with you. I’ve been following your stuff on social media for a while and one of the cool things and we just had a couple other people on recently and, I said, one of the cool things about what we do at the podcast here cool things for me is being able to connect with people like you, that I really respect the way that you’re putting your content out, the content that you’re putting out. So, first of all, just keep doing what you’re doing, because I love watching it and I learned stuff from when I’m watching your content and I know that our crew is too. So I’m excited to have you on. 0:03:21 – Cody WescottYeah, man, thank you so much. I mean the content game, social media has been such a game changer. I think you know I’ve listened to your show a few times, so I know I’m not alone when I say that Like it really has just like opened so many doors Because I’ve been doing, you know, the fitness thing for a long time and just when you consistently start posting content, like things happen for you that I never thought would happen. So it’s really cool. Like I’ve been on you know, someone’s podcast. Like you know, if you were to go, I never would have thought about this. So this is really cool. 0:03:50 – Jeff PelizzaroWhen did your? Is Instagram your biggest platform as far as your social media content? For sure, when did that really kind of take off for you? 0:03:57 – Cody WescottYou know. So I was a trainer for, like you know, 12 years before I ever like made a post about my services, right, so? But I think it was summer 2022 is when I started posting about every single day, because I was in an environment down in a gym down in Jupiter, where, like that was pretty much what everybody was doing is like that was like bigger part of our job was actually like creating social media content, and that’s when I started doing it every single day. And then I think you know, the thing is like I didn’t. It took me forever to like get up and going. I mean, I think I made. I think I posted like 90 days in a row before I got like a thousand followers, you know. So, like you know, I get like 12 likes on a post or something like that. So it was a little discouraging, but I was like you know what? Like I think it’s one of those things that you just keep trying and work hard and put out good stuff. It’s eventually going to catch on, and so that’s what I did. I just kept going, kept going, and I want to say it was probably like right around like holiday season, so probably like Thanksgiving of 2022, you know, probably like almost like six months into the thing, I got to 10,000 followers and then that’s. I don’t know if it starts like kind of snowballing or if the algorithm like kind of catches on and people are watching your stuff and then, but that, that first 10 was super hard and then now I think we’re you know what, like 14 months later, I’m at like 70,000. And that’s been really cool. Just because you know, when you’re a personal trainer, you are pretty limited on how many people you can work one on one with, right, or how many people you can really make a change for Cause I’ve done group fitness before too, where you’re coaching like 40, 50 people at once. But you know, as a personal trainer, if you’re super busy I mean, if you’re talking about doing 30, 40 sessions a week that is a very, very busy personal trainer, right. And you have, you know, people doing two or three sessions a week like what are you looking at? You may have? You might have like 10 to 12 to 15 clients, really right. So for me to go from that on a weekly basis, like I’m only touching like 12, 15 people, to reaching thousands has been like really gratifying and a lot of fun too. 0:06:05 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, when? When did you kind of shift out of the the in-person training role, cause I know you said you really just work with, I think, a single client in person. The rest is pretty much online. 0:06:15 – Cody WescottYeah, it’s all on my app. Now why use trainer rogue? But you know I have my programming on their app. It’s been since I moved back to Oklahoma. I moved back here in December of 2022. I moved back here and I was still doing some zoom sessions. So I’m still doing one on one. But now, yeah, for the past like I think about 12 months I’ve had just one guy that I trained a person and the rest is I’ve got some. I’ve got people that I’ve been doing one on one programming for for years now. But now I just put all my time into creating the programming on the app. 0:06:54 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, it looks great. We’ll be sure to link all this stuff up in the show notes as well, so you guys can go and check out the website, check out the app. You know everything, everything about looks really good. You know like it just kind of draws the eye in your content is great. As far as just really pointing out the, the no BS right, which I think is really one of the big messages that you, that you have, is like hey, don’t do the silly stuff. Here’s the way are here, here are ways for you to really get to where you want to go with your, your golf, with your fitness. And you know, one thing I wanted to ask you about, which is a message that continually goes through your content is not training the old way you used to train. You know it hasn’t gotten you where you want to go yet, so why are you continuing to do it? Expand on that a little bit. 0:07:42 – Cody WescottYeah, that’s been, that’s been a topic that’s done pretty well for me lately. So you kind of catch onto things that people kind of believe in in what you’re saying more right Cause, like that is like a truly like authentic thing for me is like I have literally experienced every possible image or every type of fitness that is out there. Right, so like I feel like I can speak to that Right Like. So I’ve done CrossFit, I’ve done bodybuilding, I’ve done powerlifting, I did Spartan races, I raced high rocks. My wife used to teach yoga. I’ve done yoga. She also taught Pilates. I’ve done Pilates. Like I’ve literally we her and I co taught a boxing class together. So I mean I’ve done like pretty much everything in fitness and I’ve also ran gyms. I was a regional fitness manager in Washington DC. I ran three gyms. Like when I tell you like that I have pretty much done everything that normal people in fitness can do, like I’ve done it. So now, like my thing is that I don’t think that any method of training is necessarily bad. Right Like. So for golf, that is like, so like I don’t think that anything that’s going to get you in better shape, like you know whether it increases your, maybe you’re doing like a orange theory. Right, it’s going to increase your endurance, you know it’s going to make you a little stronger. You know stuff like that. But any kind of workout program CrossFit, bodybuilding, whatever it is that gets you in better shape. I think it can help the game of golf, now. What I always tell people is like is that optimal for the game of golf? And my answer for some of that stuff is no, like I don’t think that training like a bodybuilder is going to help you play your best. You know can it. Is it going to be better than you sitting on the couch every single day? And will it help you play better? If you go train like a bodybuilder? Probably because you’re getting stronger and you get more mobile, you’re going to be pretty sore, so it might suck to go practice that next day or something. If you just wrecked your pecs or something and your chest and your shoulders. You know that might suck, but you know when you recover from that your chest is going to be stronger and more flexible and and so, yeah, that could help you play golf. But you know I’m here for getting athletes to perform at their best and I think what’s interesting about golf is that it’s a very unique game, right. It requires mobility, strength and power, and each one of those pro, whatever program you do out there might give you a little bit of one of those things. Right, but if we do a golf program, we can have it all. 0:10:06 – Jeff PelizzaroSo what do you feel is kind of the secret sauce of Hitting all of those boxes in a program and not going too far in one direction? Because I feel like we can definitely get into the mindset, or many of the golfers can get in the mindset, of oh, I just got to work on my mobility, or I got, I just got to work on my speed, or I’m going to get stronger, or you know how, how have you found to really tie those things together and, like you said, really become more of an athlete when you’re in the gym? 0:10:33 – Cody WescottRight, and you know you think about, like, could you put all that stuff into a workout? You can, right, Like it can be a long workout, but you know, yeah, and how much juice is the average person going to have at the end of a 90 minute session or something like that, right? So I think, yeah, we got to be pretty strategic about how we do it. I like to give people total body workouts, right? So, as opposed to doing a bodybuilding split and yeah, I think you know you can put in, you know, targeted mobility work that also is going to prepare you, like, you know, prime you up for the workout that you’re about to do. You can put in a few reps of like, maybe it’s a plio’s, like, you know, jumps, maybe it’s a couple of mid-ball slams. I like to do the sled, you know, whatever it is that that person has available, maybe it’s just bands, maybe they you know whatever they have available do something that’s pretty fast. And I have to do that, you know, right after your warm up, your mobility, so that where you’re touching on some speed and I don’t think you know you need to do a whole lot of it, right, like, I think speed is, you know a pretty low, low volume, right, like we’re talking like a couple of sets, you know two, three sets, one to three sets, actually, right, and then that lower rep range and then hitting a couple of our compound movements and I really try to get people to do like two to three to four sessions a week and then I’ll put in like my, like my um, in my app. I have, like I call them our main workouts. They’re Monday, wednesday, friday, we’re going to the workouts going to be structured kind of like I just described, and then, like on Tuesdays, I have them just do like mobility and zone to cardio. Um, saturday is more of like an interval style, like hit training, so that we can kind of get it a little bit, little bit heart rate up a little bit higher, come back down, recover, um, things like that, and it’s still going to have some mobility at the beginning of that workout too. So I like to, that’s how I like to do it and it’s worked really well. Um, and, like you know, I kind of just took it all from every facet of training I’ve ever done and like just kind of okay, like you know, it doesn’t make sense, it just makes sense, right, like once you become, when you’re a trainer and you know what’s up, it’s like okay, you can’t put this power at the end because you’re going to be dead. I don’t put mobility at the end because it’s like it can be paired with a warmup, like so you just, it just makes sense and I think it’s really worked well for me and for the um, the hundreds of athletes now that that that are on board with a lift every swing fast. So we continue to appreciate it for everyday training and what it’s like to do sport. 0:12:46 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, that’s awesome. I love the name, by the way. Oh, it’s great. Just straight to the point, right. 0:12:51 – Cody WescottI got the trademark, by the way, did you really, hell yeah? 0:12:55 – Jeff PelizzaroNice, you should have for sure. Yeah, for those of you that aren’t watching on YouTube, he’s got the neon sign. He’s in his podcast studio too, which he’s got the shooting straight podcast that he does with his wife, so definitely check that out. We’ll link that in the show notes as well. 0:13:08 – Cody WescottAppreciate that. 0:13:09 – Jeff PelizzaroBut yeah, I mean just the breakdown of that, of that. You’re right, it just seems to make sense. I like how you then have like something on Saturday too, where it almost gives them a little bit of variety too, probably as far as the conditioning stuff, how much conditioning do you think golfers need, and is that something they need? Is that something that they want? Is that something that you like to throw in there? 0:13:30 – Cody WescottThat’s a great question. I love how you word this Something neat or something they want, right, like that’s what they come to us for, right, jeff? It’s like I’m going to tell you what you need, like, do you really want to do this? I hope so. I hope I’m going to get you to buy in and believe what I’m saying and you’re going to get excited and want to do it right, like, yeah, but yeah, so need. I mean I love zone two cardio. That has become like my really my big thing lately is going to keep on to that heart rate zone and you know, if you’re listeners out there, you can just simply like kind of Google zone two cardio and you can quickly figure out what heart rate you need to be in to get into zone two. But golf is long, right, I mean if you’re talking, you know people don’t talk. They think that golf is, like you know, taxing, and they’re right, it’s not. It’s not. You’re not playing a football game, you’re not playing a basketball game, so it’s not taxing in that way. But yeah, you’re out there for a while, I mean if you go warm up and if it’s slow, I mean we’re talking. Like my wife says, I’m out there all day right and she’s not. She’s not wrong. Like you know you know, right, like, if I go warm up for an hour, do my routine and just cause I like it, you know I don’t think you need warm up for an hour, but I like you know I work. I warm up in my gym first, not going to my club I putt, I chip because I just love it, um, and then you know you play and you know what. How long could you be out there? Six hours, right Easy. You’re up there standing, walking around shipping, putting hitting drivers, like, yeah, I think endurance plays a bigger role than people probably want it to want it to be, because I don’t think people love working on their cardio and working on their uh, vo2 max and their um, aerobic conditioning and all that kind of stuff. But I think it plays a huge role and it also plays a pretty good role in in how you’re going to recover and how you’re going to perform in your own workouts. Right, Like you’re. If you’re a better condition, you know, like a, like a heavy set of squats or presses or whatever it is that you’re going to do, like it’s going to help you recover in between those sets too, um, so then you’re able to get stronger and then, um, recovery and your power. Workouts like it benefits everything. 0:15:20 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, you know what that’s a great point that I think is overlooked is is the recovery piece of it and how that you don’t necessarily have to be conditioning yourself for the sport itself when you’re out on the golf course, and that is definitely going to help you. We we just talked to Mitch Sadoski recently talking about how golf is an explosive sport, but it’s also an endurance sport, especially if you’re a high level golf and you’re playing four days in a row. But, from the recovery aspect of during your workouts and from day to day, being in in better cardiovascular shape is absolutely going to help you improve from from set to set, from rep to rep and from tournament day to tournament day and practice session to practice session. 0:15:57 – Cody WescottSo that’s that’s awesome and, and you know, like you know, there’s so many studies out there that prove that. You know, resistance training, cardiovascular training, are like the pillars of longevity, right, and we all want to do this living well thing for a long time and we want to play golf for a long time, Like I want to play golf when I’m a hundred, you know, like, and I think we all do so. You know, if cardiovascular health is going to help me get there, then I better do, I better be doing it. 0:16:25 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, yeah, it doesn’t all have to be about you know, from shot to shot, what you’re doing on the golf course, and that’s the piece that I think do myself Most of the professionals in our industry yeah, we want you to lower your handicap, we want you to swing faster, we want you to hit the ball further and straighter, but ultimately, I’d love to see you play another 10, 20, 30, 40 years and do it well too, right? Not not just be out there kind of dinking it around, but be the guy that’s out there in his seventies and eighties and people like Holy cow, can you imagine or can you believe that this guy’s out here doing it? So yeah, that’s who. 0:16:57 – Cody WescottI want to be right and like. That’s who I want everyone else to be. You know it kills me when I’m out of my club and you know I play with one guy who’s like I’m 37 and he’s like I think he’s almost 50. He’s a pretty good shape, plays really well. And then some of the guys we play with, you know they’re they’re getting a little older, I think that you know they’re in their sixties and you know their their health is, you know they’re overweight, like their their body’s starting to break down a little bit, their back hurts and, you know, sadly, I think they think that they’re going to turn it around somewhere, right, and I’m just like it breaks my heart and I’m like, if you don’t do anything about it, right, like it’s not going to match, you’re not going to get out of a slump right now. Like you know, at 65 years old, I’m sorry, like, unless we like get you moving better and drop some weight and get you stronger and maybe make you faster, like I don’t think it’s going to go up or even plateau, right, like we’re, it’s going to start sliding back and we don’t want that, sadly. 0:17:56 – Jeff PelizzaroAnd yeah, and that’s a message that I wish the 35 year olds could hear and project forward right or the 25 year olds, 30, 35, 40, when we tend to get in this, this area of you know raising kids and being at a desk job or whatever your career path is, your family life is we tend to neglect those things, we tend to neglect ourselves, and then you turn into that 65 year old that is still kind of hoping that things will turn around, but it’s like no, the time is now. You got to start doing this stuff Now. Even if you start very simple, right, you start with just some mobility stuff and just getting into the gym a little bit. So that message rings true. 0:18:34 – Cody WescottOh yeah, I mean I had a guy worked at a country club in Alexandria, virginia, just right across the Potomac River from Washington DC had a guy mid 80s, you know like 85 years old, his name was Tony. He came in, he worked his ass off, slammed the ball around, I got him on the TRX and did some jump squats and stuff at 85 years old and that man got out there and you know he felt better than ever and so I mean it’s not too, you know. So my message is like yeah, it’s definitely not too late, and like you know people that are around my age or even a little bit younger, like you know, it’s going to be there one day. So you know, don’t let it catch you off guard. 0:19:10 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, yeah, be like Tony no. 0:19:12 – Cody WescottTony crushes it. Tony’s got a bitch named after him out there. He’s like oh no, bridge, not a bitch, excuse me. 0:19:17 – Jeff PelizzaroAnd he’s like oh yeah, when I’m gone. 0:19:19 – Cody WescottThey’re going to tear that bridge down. I’m like no, not Tony, it’s a great bridge. Like it’s not going anywhere, I use that bridge. 0:19:25 – Jeff PelizzaroLove it. Yeah, people use it. They can’t tear it down. We need that. Let’s take a second to thank our sponsors over at 1st Phorm, and this week I want to highlight their Formula One post-workout protein shake. I use this thing pretty much every day after my workouts because, let’s face it, being here in a gym working all the time with clients putting on a podcast, it can sometimes be tough to get my protein in on a regular basis, and so I know that with the post-workout shake the Formula One, first of all, it’s fast acting. So right after your workout is a great time to get your protein in to help build your muscles, get yourself stronger and repair what you’ve done in the gym. But also, if you don’t know if you’re going to be able to get your protein in in your regular meals, it’s just a great way to make sure that you’re supplementing and hitting those marks. So be sure to go over to 1stPhorm.com forward slash 18STRONG to get your 1st Phorm Formula One protein shake, and everyone that enters through that link is going to be put into a drawing every single month for free 1st Phorm products. So again, go over to 1stPhorm.com forward slash 18STRONG. So what kind of sports did you play when you’re growing up. Obviously you’re very fit, obviously you’re in the fitness industry, but I assume you played some sports back in the day. And then I want to know what changed as far as your training mentality and how you’ve transitioned yourself into, because I saw on the website that you’ve really amped up your game quite a bit recently too. 0:20:52 – Cody WescottYeah, so I mean, growing up I played baseball, basketball. I had a lot of, you know, I had some things happen when I was a kid, some some, some things with my family that really got me distracted For a little while. I think I had the talent, to be honest with you, to play, like you know, after high school and all that kind of stuff, but I just got distracted and I, you know, did some other things that people shouldn’t do. That was a big part of my life. I thought about that on my podcast was like I struggled with drugs and alcohol and things like that in my youth and even in my 20s, but I really found solace in the weight room, like when I was in high school. So, like you know, I’m 37, I’ve been working out since, like I was a freshman at high school. So we’re talking, like you know, 20-something years ago, right, and I just found a love for working out, right, like just lifting weights and I remember just working out with some of my buddies and I just felt it different. Like you know, as soon as I like did call it a bicycle curl for ease, right, I said, buy some curl. And they’re always like man, I can tell in your face that you feel that you know what you’re doing Like, and I just naturally figured it out. And then so I started like training them, you know, to try to get them like learn how to do this stuff. I’d be ripping pages out and muscle fitness magazines I mean, you know, this is 27 years ago I didn’t really, I didn’t have a smartphone to have Google Like. I just went to the store and I took my ripped up muscle fitness magazines of Jay Cutler and Ronnie Coleman and took those into the gym. And then our winter ending coach she was like in his 80s coached a tola and he just yelled at me he’s like don’t do that, you know you’re going to break your arm, like whatever you know. So and I’d be teaching my buddies. I remember this one time I had my buddy come in and the weight room was right right outside the basketball core and I was having us do walking lunges up and down the core and my buddy I don’t know if he ever worked out again his life because he was so sore Like after that maybe he’s never worked out again, but yeah. So I just really found you know, the weight room to be like my place and so, like I, when I was in high school, like I had some weightlifting records for my weight class, which was very light back then, because I’m only like five, six, I was like five, four back then like 120 pounds Almost. I think I almost did like a 400 pound deadlift back then I was able to do like 70 unbroken dips, like you know. It was cool stuff. So I was very, very into that back then. You know so. But then you know I didn’t like go to school for it or anything. You know I’m from Oklahoma. You know, when I I don’t remember like people like being into fitness, like you know, I went to the gym like it wasn’t a personal trainer back then there was no one. I went to the gym. The guy owned it like he would kind of help you out and like his son was around, but like no, there was no trainer. Like there was. This wasn’t a career, you know, I didn’t think it was. So I actually ended up in the restaurant business. I was waiting tables. It was like one of my jobs, you know and I went to the guidance counselor and she’s like, well, what do you like to do? I was like I like to work out and I wait table. She’s like, well, you know, we got a great like hospitality program. You know, I wish she would have been like hey, why don’t you get into this like exercise, science or something you know? But hey, hindsight, 20, 20, it all worked out pretty well for me. But so I was in the referral business for a long time and I actually think that really helped me and be where I am today, because they develop a ton of skills Like, if you’ve ever, have you ever worked in the referral business? 0:24:09 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, yeah. You know, bus tables and all kinds of stuff. 0:24:13 – Cody WescottYeah, you know. So, like I was a manager, like you know so. But anyways, and then I was at a gym working out, just like before my shift at work, and the guy comes up and he’s like the fitness manager said hey man, do you want to be a personal trainer? And I was like, okay. I was like, how do I do that? He was like, oh, just get the certification and you know, we’ll set you up with clients. I was like, oh, yeah, those are the golds of Jim. You know, like five years ago. And so, yeah, then I quit doing the restaurant business. I got all into fitness and you know so, back then, you know, like all I really knew how to do was like bodybuilding and powerlifting, like that’s really all I knew. How to lift heavy, I knew how to like get big, that was it. And but then when you get your first client, you know you’re like I’m not going to pay to come see you once a week. I’m like, what are you going to do with them? Am I going to have you do chest day? And then what are you going to do in the next like four? And then what am I going to do next week? I’m going to have you do leg beer. You know, by the end of the month we’re going to give all one month split, yeah, like, so you had to change, you had to figure it out. And I was like, okay, well, this isn’t sustainable for most people. What do we need to do? And I remember my very first fitness manager was wrote down on a piece of paper and this like kind of changed my life. He wrote down he’s like lower core upper, and I was like simple enough, right, and that was like my first like exposure into, like just very basic, like we all know this now, right, but like back then like I didn’t really know. And so, yeah, then I started kind of evolving that it’s like, okay, how can I get people the biggest bank for their buck? How can we get the most results on like once a week, okay, and then some people do twice a week. How can we get a big bank for their buck? Like, what is it going to be? And most people you know we’re talking about general population people, right, like what do they want? They want to lose weight, right, but I don’t control what they put in their mouth, so how do I keep them happy? And it’s like, okay, let’s start focusing on performance Right, and that’s where I’ve so, like a long time ago, I really figured out that to make someone happy and so I get them to continue on this journey, it’s got to be performance based Right, like. But I want to help someone lose weight, then I’ve got to really talk about nutrition. So that’s like where the whole like training for performance thing like really really started for me, like early on in my personal training career, and then I just met people along the way that you know. At the time I didn’t realize they were basically my mentors, but they were guys that like taught me like even more about like strength training and stuff like that. 0:26:31 – Jeff PelizzaroSo did you start working with a lot of athletes at that time period, or was it just more general population that you know wanted to have some sort of performance based training in some capacity? 0:26:41 – Cody WescottYeah, so it was. They didn’t know they were. They wanted performance based training. That’s what that’s like when I, you know, like a minute ago it was like what do they want, what do they need? I’m like, well, here’s, you know what you want, what do they need to get there, right? So like, let’s just get you stronger, that’s going to help your quality of life. So like, yeah, at first, like my first, probably three years into the business, right, like I, just general population people, right People, everyday people want to get stronger, injured, you know, wanted to lose weight, just live a better quality of life. And then you know I love golf and I really wanted to, you know, dive into golfers. And so NASM, the National Academy of Sports Medicine, where I got my personal pay or certification and had a golf certification. Did you ever see that? You know? Yeah, yeah. 0:27:27 – Jeff PelizzaroI didn’t go through it, but I remember that coming out. 0:27:28 – Cody WescottYeah, so I did that. I think that was like in 2015. I did that and then I found a few golfers in the gym and like just kind of like begged them to let me like do some stuff, because they weren’t really into training. But I knew because but we had talked about golf before they didn’t want to really want to pay for training. I was like I don’t really care, like just kind of let me try some of this stuff on you. And they just, like you know because, because in Washington this is in I was living in Washington DC at the time that this happened and if you’re familiar with Washington DC, it’s like it’s not a really commuter friendly city. Like you know, it’s tough to go play golf. Like I didn’t have a, I didn’t even have a car. So, like, I took the subway, you know. So like and yeah, we did golf simulator places weren’t really popular back then. Well, like they are now I mean, this is only like seven years ago, but, oh shit, no Longer than that, yeah, it’s 2024, but anyways, they weren’t as accessible. So, like you know, to go play golf I had to literally get on a subway, a bus, and then, you know, or take an Uber and no one really wants to do that Right. So that’s my first like exposure into golfers and I just learned more and more along the way, like doing TPI and all that stuff, to get to where I am now, to where I’m just training or just writing programs for golf. 0:28:39 – Jeff PelizzaroRight. And then you, you just recently how long ago did you move back to Oklahoma again After you were down in Jupiter? 0:28:46 – Cody WescottYes, I mean with Washington DC in 2015, I know 2014 and then moved from. I moved all around. Then we went from Washington DC, my wife and I. Then we moved from there to Austin, texas. That’s when I really started working. You’ve been everywhere. Yeah, that’s when I really started working with a lot of golfers was down in Austin. You know I worked. I partnered with some swing coaches. There’s some guys at a simulator place in Austin called Rock ROK, rock Golf. I met a lot of golfers there. Yeah, I partnered with the swing coaches and trade. I traded out them. I would do sessions with them, I would train them in the gym and then they would give me swing lessons. Oh, nice For a sweet deal, and then then we moved back to Washington DC, Then we moved down to Jupiter, Florida, and now we’re here. So then, back I’m called what they call it boomerang, since I left and came back. So back here. Yeah, been back here a little over a year. 0:29:43 – Jeff PelizzaroAwesome. 0:29:44 – Cody WescottLove it here. 0:29:45 – Jeff PelizzaroSo I was kind of I was kind of going through some of your podcasts and you know some of the topics on there really stuck out to me and you know there are questions that people have about you know what is golf training, how do you implement golf training, how does it help your golf swing? And one of the things that you had posed a question of is you know what’s a golf exercise versus what’s a golf drill? Can you break that down a little bit, because it’s kind of a gray area that I think people get confused and, you know, frankly, can be confusing for us coaches as well. 0:30:16 – Cody WescottOh yeah, I mean. So, yeah, you’re talking about the episode where I even asked my wife. I was like, hey, like please help me with like explaining this, because it is like very nuanced and like it can be kind of tricky to even explain this, so, yeah, so what I like to think about is like I work with the swing coach, right, he gives me a drill, that is, with a golf club in my hand, for my exact like swing issue. Right, and I think that you know that drill is much better served with a club in my hand. I don’t think I need to go try to turn that drill into grabbing a band or getting a kettle bell or something like that and try to make it into a fancy golf exercise, because it may not give me like enough like stimulus, right, like provide my body with like enough like reason, because we have the reason we exercise is that we give our body a reason to adapt to the exercise we’re doing, right, and recover and things like that. So if I’m taking this drill and like trying to turn it into an exercise, like make that exercise like might not be that stimulating to me, right, and it might not really just do a whole lot for my body. Like, it may not change my central nervous system, my ability, muscle, it might not gain mobility. It might, it’s, it’s going to. It could just end up in no man’s land, right, where, as I’d be much better off just taking his drill with the golf club and doing it a thousand times like he told me to do. Right, instead of like, oh, let me get here, let me grab this band, or let me get a million of the other toys that I had to play with. And try to like, oh, here, what if I, you know, help my, you know, get in my pit depth? What if I do this and grab this kettle bell, but with this band, and you know? But the thing is like, is that again? Is that stuff bad? Like, is it better than getting up off the couch? Absolutely Right. So I think, like, do what I need to do in the gym to make me more mobile, strong, you know, and powerful, right, instead of just messing up his drill that he gave me. If that makes like, yeah, so it’s very nuanced. But like, yeah, I think if you, if you take it out of context and try to turn in something that it shouldn’t be, it could be a problem. 0:32:20 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, it’s like what’s most efficient, right, like what are you best spent? What’s your time best spent on? Is it actually working on the skill or is it trying to come up with a way to kind of mimic it? But, like you said, if it doesn’t really create the adaptation, it’s almost like am I just kind of making stuff up? That is kind of wasting my time, where I could be either doing that drill or I could be lifting heavy or lifting something that’s going to provide a little bit more of that adaptation. 0:32:46 – Cody WescottExactly so we can. You know, in social media we can kind of get ourselves in that trap, right, Because you know one of my, you know when you’re, I spent a lot of my time in big box gyms. You know what kind of listeners do you have? Like the other thing, I know what a big box gym is like. 0:33:02 – Jeff PelizzaroWe’re talking like a gold’s gym or like a plan of fitness or yeah, I would say most of the listeners are either kind of the 35 plus golfers or a lot of people in our industry medical pros, fitness pros, all kind of tied into the golf world as well. 0:33:16 – Cody WescottSo like a big box gym, like a gold’s well, a gold’s is a big company. They want to make money, right. So, like one of the things I’ll you know. So, as a trainer, as a fitness manager that I was you are there to make sales and one of the things the guy would tell me is like you know what? Hey, man, I know you’re here. When I was like a, when I was a new trainer, he was like hey, man, I know you’re here to like train people, help them out, like that’s whatever trainer wants. He was like, but you cannot train what you cannot obtain. So like you have to sell him. Or now, in the day of social media, we have to like bring them in somehow. And usually the way you catch a golfer’s attention right is not by doing a 405 pound barbell back squat. It’s going to be by doing something that looks like it will help them with their golf. So I think we all have our guilty of that and like not for a bad reason, right, because it does help. But always tell people it’s kind of like the icing on the cake for like when it comes to golf fitness training, and I saw this firsthand when I worked I’ll just leave the gym nameless. But one of the guys, like you know, posted a lot on social media and it was a lot of this, a lot of the mobility stuff, right. And when the guy came in to work with him, he like put them through his normal workout, which included, like I think it was like Bulgarian split squats. He had him doing co-ops, he had him doing you know, like a trap, bar deadlift or something like you know, just some stuff like that, along with some of the other things. That guy was like no, no, no, man, I can’t hear to do all the stuff on your social media. And I had to listen to him explain to the guy like, hey, no, no, actually, yes, we do that stuff, but here’s like the big chunk of how I train. And so, yeah, I think you know we do it for a reason, so we can obtain eyeballs. And then you get people to trust you and say, hey, yes, this drew you in, but here’s what else we’re going to do and this is why we need to do it. 0:35:03 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, I remember talking to a golf fitness pro that most people listening to this would know who he is. I don’t want to share his name, but him telling me years ago, like you know, you got to give him a little bit of the golfiness, right, because that’s why they’re there. You got to do this. And he’s like, maybe that’s you working on a one legged deadlift kind of position, but maybe you do throw a golf club in their hand, maybe you do, you know, make it a little, a little golf ish, as Charlie Weingroff would say, but because that’s there to give them the buy-in and then you can. You know, we’ve always said here at 18STRONG, we kind of like we lull you in, like you’re saying we lull you in with the golf stuff, but we hopefully provide you with enough value where you then leave with, you know, more strength, more mobility, and you didn’t really know that you were coming for some of that stuff. But you then see the benefit of it and you know the balance and whatever those pieces are. But but yeah, we want to do what we want to do. So, as the clients they’re coming in, they want, they want to maybe hit some balls. They want to maybe you know, put the strap on and pretend like they’re in their golf posture, and there’s nothing wrong with that as long as you understand, or as long as they understand, like, why we’re doing it and it’s not just because it’s a cool, fancy looking golf move, right? 0:36:17 – Cody WescottOh, absolutely, and you know it goes back. I mean, it’s not just with golf, right. I mean, when you know, a big chunk of my career was training people, the general population that wants to lose weight what do most people think they need to do to lose weight? Cardio or something like very high intensity, like get really sweaty. So you know, at the end of the workout, right like we’re like 45, 50, 55 minutes into an hour long workout, what do you need to hit them with? You know you got to get them, got to get them sweaty, because that’s what they want, Right, like there’s nothing wrong with that. You know, like, hey, I just got you through this strength training workout. Here’s going to be the meat potatoes of what we did. But you still have this belief and, like you know, I’m reading a book right now and, like you know, one of his laws is, like you know, you can’t change someone’s belief. And if people believe that they need to do this golf exercise or they need to do some cardio to lose weight, throw it in there, right, like let them do it because they believe that and that helps them like get to their end goal. And you know so, fitness is so much of a mind game, right. Two like not only I probably didn’t say game, but it’s like you know it’s, it’s a lot of it is up here. 0:37:21 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, and I truly believe that if that person doesn’t really know what the intention of them, whatever exercise program it is that they’re doing, they won’t get that result because it’s not focused in on that, even if they’re maybe doing the same exercises as somebody else that’s there for that goal. There’s something about you know that whole mind-body connection, or just connecting with the purpose of it. That kind of makes you do the other little ancillary things that you don’t even think about to get you closer to that goal. So, speaking of that, one other podcast topic that you had on your show was the idea of gaining muscle. So you know, I think that, first of all, this demographic often thinks that gaining muscle is kind of in the past. You know the guys that are at 35, 40, 45 plus. But then, especially if you’re on a golf program, is it possible to still gain muscle while still helping your golf game? 0:38:12 – Cody WescottYeah, I mean I’m not going to say her flex on camera, but I think so. You know, a lot of it has to do with nutrition, right, like how you’re going, adequate protein, things like that to help you build lean tissue, right. But you know, when you progressively overload and you, you know, I think a lot of the. You know we used to think that muscle was built like mainly with volume, right, like high volume, like three sets of 10 or four sets of 10 was kind of like the name of the game and the bodybuilder world, right, those types of rep ranges to get adequate muscle hypertrophy. But you know, it’s just, it’s mechanical tension, and so you got to get in some hard reps, like in my, in my programs, I make sure to put in, you know, like RPE or like reps in reserve, like you know the rate of perceived exertion or reps in reserve, so that way you can get that, you know, close to failure, so that way you can build muscle mass right, and it’s going to look. I think what’s interesting is people don’t understand that that muscle looks different on everybody, right, like whatever your body composition is, like I have short limbs, like I’m only five, six, and like I have short arms. I have short legs. Like it looks like I have a, you know it looks like I’m huge, but like I mean or not huge, but I have a small area here to pack in the muscle, right, I’m not tall, you know, so like, but it just looks different on everyone. I think the people miss the nutrition part and you know I know some people are afraid to bulk up. Like I don’t need to, you know, get all big and stuff like that, and it’s like, trust me, like it’s really not going to happen as much as I would love it to happen, cause like I would be freaking jacked if I could get any you know like get any bigger, like I would be there because that’s what I want, cause I like that, cause I’m I’m a meathead at heart, right, but I’m doing all specific training. Yeah, I mean, I get that all the time where people like, hey, you know, here I’m doing your like it’s usually cause I offer a free trial. So people like start the trial and like, hey, man, there’s only like two chest exercises in here and I don’t see any arms. Like you know what? Like I want that stuff. Like can I add that in? I’m like why don’t you just give it a shot here? We got heavy pulls, we got tons of rowing, there’s pressing, there’s pushups, there’s all this kind of stuff. Like we’ve got swaths, this total body. You are going to build muscle. If you, if you, if you, if you do the workouts and you check the box and you mail it in, you’re not, you know you’re not going to get anything Right, like, even if you do that with mobility, like mobility is like I think you had a doctor, kyle, on here, right, yeah, yeah, you even talked about getting sore during mobility. I loved hearing that. Like, yeah, you got to push your mobility right. Like you know, you shouldn’t check in anything or check the box on anything. Like go hard on your mobility, like go for it. Same thing with like your power, like all your, all your exercises should be like you should be like get putting some effort into it and your body will respond to that if you give it like proper nutrients to build that up. And so I think, yeah, that’s one thing you know in my programs. Like my wife, my wife’s a nutrition coach. She wrote like an ebook that goes along with our, our lip heavy, swing fast. It’s called eat to perform. It’s not only like, it’s your nutrition, help your body composition, but it also helps your performance too. So very important. But yes, to answer your question, go all the way back around. I straw, I mean I’m, I feel like I’m living proof of like yeah, you can get pretty good sized muscles from doing a golf specific program. 0:41:31 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, and the fact that when you do, or if you do, have a good amount of muscle mass, you can still move very well. You watch your golf swing. On some of your videos you crush a ball. I saw what it was 171 ball speed on the one. Just the one swing that I saw on the website. 0:41:47 – Cody WescottOh yeah. 0:41:49 – Jeff PelizzaroI’m like people think that big, strong, athletic-looking builds may not be able to move very well through a golf swing. But when you’re doing the right things, you’re training the right way and you’re not even though you know meet heads at heart even, but you know doing it the right way for the golf swing, you can still create a lot of movement and mobility and that athletic motion without suffering, even though you’re building muscle mass. 0:42:12 – Cody WescottYeah, and I think you know one of the topics I hammer on a lot is like is bodybuilding, because bodybuilding is popular and I think that’s what a lot of people just realize. I think that’s like the only way to train right. It’s like leg day, back day, chest day, stuff like that. Yeah, I think the common misconception out there is that like a bodybuilder, someone with a lot of muscle, is like not flexible or they’re not mobile. But I can show you tons of pictures online of like Roddy Coleman you know he is just massive man. Oh yeah, he can like do the splits Right. Like these guys are super mo they run into a problem right when their soft tissue gets so big that like say, like you know, their biceps and their pecs like hit each other and they can’t like physically grip like a golf club right. Like they are so massive that they like they’re handsy like this close together. I know a guy like that. He was my physical therapist in down in Jupiter and that’s only when it becomes a problem and most people like, unless they take a little bit of something something you know I’m talking about like they’re never, ever going to get that close right. And like I’m a decent sized guy and, like I told my swing coach, justin Kraft, I was like hey, man, look at my swing, my body can do whatever you tell me it needs to do. Like I’m mobile, I can get in whatever position. So don’t hold back. Like if I need to rotate my hip and you know, rotate my thoracic spine and get good hip depth and do this and do that. Like tell me and I will figure it. My body can get there, I just don’t learn how to do it. 0:43:42 – Jeff PelizzaroThere’s another point that you’ve made that I really like, and some of the coaches on that are listening to this may not love that we bring this up, but you say that you don’t need a personal trainer. 0:43:54 – Cody WescottRight Like yeah. 0:43:56 – Jeff PelizzaroSo let’s talk about that a little bit, because I’ve had conversations about this and this is coming from a guy that still works with a lot of people in the gym on a daily basis. I still do a lot of in-person training, but I think there’s a lot to be said for this statement of that people don’t need a personal trainer. 0:44:15 – Cody WescottYeah, so where do I begin with that? 0:44:17 – Jeff PelizzaroWherever you want man, Just let it run. 0:44:18 – Cody WescottYou’re not going to link my phone over on here. Are you Like people harassing? 0:44:23 – Jeff Pelizzarome. No, you’re just your social media. 0:44:25 – Cody WescottYeah, that’s fine, those are full of stuff anyways. Yeah, so I mean, I was a personal trainer for a long time. I still am, right, and I get it Like it’s a business, absolutely. But I always felt my job was to be an educator and not to like overly educate and talk, like you’ll probably notice, Like I don’t think I’ve said a very big word yet and I probably won’t, just because that’s not how I speak to people and I don’t speak that way to my clients, like I want to educate them, like here’s why we’re doing this, here’s how you need to do it, because everyone needs to do it differently, right, like everyone needs a squat, but you don’t have to back squat, but everyone should squat or split squat or whatever, and each person is going to do it differently just because of the way they move and the way their anatomy is, and so on and so forth. So my job is an educator and I always feel that you know that old saying like you can teach a man to fish all that you know, whatever. Yep, everyone knows how that goes. So I always feel like that was my job. Now here’s where, like now, personal training is expensive and if someone can afford it and they enjoy you right, they should keep training with you. Like I always told my clients, like I am going and this was like one of my sales pitches. Part of it I was like, hey, I’m going to teach you enough to where you can do this on your own. Now my job is also to have you enjoy working with me so much. See the results and see that I can keep bringing value to the table, that you still keep paying me, right, and the people that people will believe that, like, they appreciate the honesty, like, okay, yeah, you know I can afford to keep paying you. And there’s also the accountability piece and, like you know, you do get better results. Like when someone is watching you and pushing you and motivating you and you’re held accountable to a schedule. Like you’re not going to, you know, because I think most trainers probably have a cancellation policy. Right, you make that appointment, you are going to show up or else you’re going to lose your $150 or whatever it is that you paying, you know. So all that stuff plays a part of it. But to actually do the exercise, I feel like my job should have been to teach you enough to do it on your own, and then we can, and then you know then that person because again, I talked about the beginning of the show like you can only as a personal trainer, like 30, 40 sessions a week is like 12 people, and if you’re a good trainer, you’ve probably got people that are also waiting to get in your door. So now, so it’s like the business part of it I want to take money out of personal trainers pockets. Like now you move this person that was trading with you one-on-one to to programming right, like use an app. There’s a ton of great apps out there to set people up on customized programming if you want there, that that’s a way to you know, to to streamline your business right, to scale your business was the word I’m looking for. And then now you take that new person in it right, and then help them the same way. So, like that’s what I’ve always believed. Now, granted, I was able to keep people for a long time because, like, they just like hey, man, now I’m cranky paying you because that’s why easier for me to just pay you and people have the means they’ll, they’ll do it. 0:47:26 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, and I mean just to. To second that, there’s the accountability piece. Some people are just paying because they want. They want that meeting or you know that appointment on their calendar. They know I’ve got, I’ve got a guy, just like that. He’s like I know that I could do most of this myself, but I’m not going to do it by myself and having you on the calendar make sure that I do it to maybe three times a week. But I am 100% with you that our job as coaches is to help educate and teach people to take, take responsibility for themselves. And I can personally say that from experience. I’ve seen clients of mine that I’ve worked with continuously and then once they decided that you know what I can, I can take some responsibility here and do this, and then they really turned it on and then they’re more, you know, they’re more bought in, they start to do more, they start to kind of start living the lifestyle a little bit more. And I think it’s it’s once the person ends up making that decision that hey, this is on me, this isn’t on Cody, this isn’t on Jeff, this isn’t on whatever the coach, but I got to get in there and do it and maybe they’re still coming in once a week, twice a week, but them getting on doing it on on their own too. You know that’s, and I, I’m with you. I feel like it’s our job, and sometimes I see that the people that end up taking on that responsibility, that’s when they really start to see like Holy shit, this is, this stuff’s working and I’m going all in. 0:48:49 – Cody WescottYeah, and you can group them together Like right, like if you had a couple of guys like I had a couple of guys that were kind of like that, like hey, I could probably do this on my own, and like I’m like, well, this other guy is doing pretty much the same thing you’re doing. Once you guys start working out together and then I trained them together. You know that was like one on two, so I might my other time opened up for someone else, and then now they do it on their own. And then I had a client. You know before that they’re my friends now. Um, you know she’s the. The wife signed up the husband and to help him get out of a rut. He was, he was really stressed at work and stuff like that. And she even told, and then you know, he would come, he would come straight from work, bit to me about his day. I’d like, okay, cool, I gave you that five minutes, let’s get to work now. And he’d leave, you know, happy as shit, and she would text me afterwards. She’s like, oh my God, she was like I will, I will just pay for this forever, cause he comes home now, he’s in a good mood, I don’t have to deal with, like what you just went through, like that first few minutes, like my life’s better, his life’s better, like I’ll just pay for this. You know never. You never know like what kind of effect you’re going to have. 0:49:54 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, and and back to your hospital hospitality background, like I think that’s where you know people that have have backgrounds and stuff like that. And you know my, my initial degree in school is psychology and I I feel like I got so much, so much out of my psychology degree compared to my physical therapy degree just with interacting with people and being able to do that because, face it, we’re like bartenders, we’re like, you know, hairdressers, where people come and, yeah, they’re doing their workouts, but some of it is it’s almost like just a session where they can just kind of let some things go, they can talk to us about stuff, and that can be just as beneficial as the workout that they get for real. 0:50:32 – Cody WescottYeah, I mean yeah, at the end of the day, we’re just trying to help people’s quality of life and help them play better golf too. And you know, like you know so great that it all just kind of works together. And yeah, like you know, they make like lifelong friends. Like I’m still. I still talk to these people, like actually they were in my most recent like video shoot that I did down in Austin and I called them up and say, hey, I need some, I need some subjects. You know like come, come, get in. Like you know, so it’s, it’s great. 0:50:57 – Jeff PelizzaroCool. All right, my man. Well, we’re going to close up with some questions that we ask everybody that comes on the ATL 18STRONG podcast. So I know you know that these are coming, first and foremost, Katie Shepard. Katie Shepard, happy Gilmore. 0:51:09 – Cody WescottYou know I love this question. Um didn’t one of the guys from catty shop recently die, sadly? 0:51:16 – Jeff Pelizzaroum. You know what I don’t know? 0:51:18 – Cody WescottAnyways, um, happy Gilmore. I mean I was born in 87. Happy Gilmore came out. You know I was still pretty young, but you know I love Adam Sandler. There’s people you had a clip of the wedding singer the other day. I thought it was hilarious. Like so I mean, yeah, adam Sandler, the Bob Barker fight. So yeah, happy Gilmore. 0:51:38 – Jeff PelizzaroAwesome. What would be your walkup song to the first T if you could pick one? 0:51:41 – Cody WescottYou know I love this question because I’m going to you know, so this wouldn’t be something I listened to. But I think when you walk up to the first T, right, you’re kind of like trying to get into other people’s heads, not just for you, right, it’s like right about this for a second. So I listened to. When I work I listen to heavy metal. So there’s never heard of a band called Lamb of God. 0:52:00 – Jeff PelizzaroNo. 0:52:00 – Cody WescottSo the song’s called limit limit, it’s called Lamigod or Lamigod’s name. The band songs called break you, and I probably don’t want to. You don’t want to play with like small children around it’s, it’s, you know, it’ll get you going. If you’re ready to lift heavy, like it’s just going to juice you up and blow your ear drums out. 0:52:15 – Jeff PelizzaroBut yeah, a little bit of a lot of metal. Okay, I love it. Is there a book that you have that you like to recommend to people, or a book that has really meant something to you over the years, that you tend to either give as a gift or recommend? 0:52:30 – Cody WescottYeah, I got it right here. I reread it all the time how to win friends and influence people Dale Farage I think it’s like the oldest book you know out there I read, I kind of read a lot, but I reread that one like all the time. I mean, I think, as as a personal, as a as a fitness person, it’s huge, right, because influence kind of sounds wrong. Right, like I’m trying to, but I’m trying to influence a good result, I’m trying to influence a good, positive behavior from someone else and like how I can communicate that and have that happen. Like you know, especially for me right now, since I’m communicating on a large scale with my app, is like hundreds of people that and I also don’t get any feedback from them like a lot of them right, like only if you only a small percentage of them like react, like comment most people are just sitting there workouts, which is Berkeley by, so it really helps you communicate. I think it’s probably one of the best books I’ve ever read and then right now I’m reading. I know you didn’t ask for two, but I’m going to give it to you anyway. 0:53:27 – Jeff PelizzaroNo, I was actually just going to ask what you’re reading, because you mentioned it. 0:53:30 – Cody WescottSo Stephen Bartley he’s got a pretty cool podcast on. He’s kind of got some interesting episodes as of late. But this is his the diary of a CEO, the 33 laws of business and life and I talked about it a second ago. Like one of the things he wanted. His laws is that you cannot change someone’s beliefs. So I’ve got to really think about that too when I’m programming exercises for people, right Is? I know there’s a lot of people that don’t believe, like, in doing a lot of barbell lifts, and there’s a lot of people that are diehard at the barbell lifting and don’t want to do anything else. So I mean, you’ve got to kind of figure out, like, how I can communicate to each camp. 0:54:05 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, I’m definitely putting that one on my list. That sounds super interesting. It’s funny. The how to win friends and influence people. This is the second podcast in a row that that book has been mentioned, so that episode that’s coming out this week, as a matter of fact. 0:54:19 – Cody WescottOh, well then just cut it out and just have me put up the diaries. 0:54:22 – Jeff PelizzaroNo man. No, I love the repeat because it shows that it’s such an influential book and it has been around for so many years. And, yeah, that’s one of the ones that I read a long long time ago and has always stuck with me and have reread a couple of times as well. Awesome, all right, who would you put in your celebrity foursome if you got to pick four, four guy, three or four to go play golf with and you could, you know, spend time with past present doesn’t matter if they’re dead or alive. Who’s who’s in your foursome? 0:54:54 – Cody WescottSo another question like these are good questions, you did a good job on these. 0:54:57 – Jeff PelizzaroThank you. 0:54:58 – Cody WescottSo I’m a history buff like at heart, like I go to bed watching like World War II documentaries, so it’d be some like kind of famous you know world leader and like probably like an Abraham Lincoln at Winston Churchill, franklin Roosevelt, maybe Lyndon Johnson or Jai JFK, likei don’t know someone like that. One of those guys probably would suck at golf, but you know, maybe not Maybe one of them was pretty good, I don’t know. Then you know. Definitely. I know I know this one’s been said before, but I think you got to play with Michael Jordan, right, like I mean that’s just I don’t know. And then you know, I was a I was a dive hard Phil fan. I got a hat signed by Phil. You know, like you know, there’s a lot of controversy around Phil lately, which bums me out a little bit because I think it took away some of his. You know, maybe he deserved it. I don’t really I’m not going to get into all that, but you know, I feel I just think played around a golf with Phil would be a hell of a lot of fun. 0:55:52 – Jeff PelizzaroOh man, and can you imagine the trash talk between him and Jordan and the money being slung around? 0:55:57 – Cody WescottYeah, and then yeah, oh yeah. They even think about the group itself, Like I was thinking about, and me individually. You put each one of them but yeah, that’s a good point. 0:56:04 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, yeah, it’d be awesome. Yeah, you can go and tell. 0:56:07 – Cody WescottDave Lincoln like how to chip you know? 0:56:08 – Jeff Pelizzaroit’d be great he might have been a lefty, I don’t know, All right, if we could, if we had the 18STRONG Learjet fueled up. We’re like Cody we’re picking you up. You get to pick where we’re going. Where’s the bucket list course that we’re heading to today? 0:56:24 – Cody WescottYou know, I know you, you, it was the background. We can’t say August or St Andrews, so you know I I don’t know why I’ve like, I’m kind of like a gut like person, like if I just feel like I like something, then I’m just going to kind of like it, and I don’t know why. Kiowa maybe it’s because I was a Phil fan, I just like went nuts when he won the PGA a few years ago at Kiowa, but I don’t know something about that course just looks really fun. You know, I like the, I like the Carolina’s, like I think that’s a cool area of the of the world, of the country. So yeah, I don’t know why, like Kiowa, like kind of draws me you know the ocean course, of course, but yeah. 0:56:59 – Jeff PelizzaroCool. What’s a social media account that you follow that you think the 18STRONG crew would be interested in following as well? Doesn’t have to be golf, doesn’t have to be fitness, could be anything. 0:57:09 – Cody WescottOh man, now that you said that to be fitness or anything. 0:57:14 – Jeff PelizzaroAnd you can give. You can give a couple if you want. 0:57:16 – Cody WescottYeah, I think you’re learning a lot to give a, I like to give a few I definitely a minnow of insulins and biolane. They are a couple of people that, because I do like I’m again like I’m always trying to think all of us are like trying to like push the envelope and what we’re doing here and like how we can create the best, like golf, in this program for people and I think there’s still a lot to be learned about what we can do and I think we and I don’t know if there’s I don’t know of any active studies of like a golf performance, but you can find a lot of studies on other types of human performance and like other ways of training. So, like these two guys like biolane is more of like a nutrition guy minnow, he kind of breaks down a lot of like the training stuff and they kind of break down studies and if you subscribe to them you can also, like you know, view their like synopsis of of how they broke down the study, because, like I’ve tried to read some of these you know like PubMed studies and I’m not smart enough. Like it’s just, it’s so long, it’s confusing, like so I need guys like that. They did just give me the information right, and then I can turn around and give it to someone else. So I really like that when it comes like programming with people and how I’m going to keep like pushing the envelope and the programs that I write, and then I have you, have you heard of a goob? You too? No, so this is how you spell it. This is pretty. His is pretty fascinating and you can’t watch too much of it because it kind of gets you. Know he? What he does is he finds fitness frauds right and he actually I think he’s expanded lately but it’s mainly people in the fitness industry that are frauds, that are possibly purchasing followers that are photo shopping, that are just lying right, and he like exposes them. So it’s pretty wild. I wouldn’t want to do what he does because he’s destroying some people and it’s pretty crazy. Some of the he’s got to have death threats and stuff. It’s wild. But yeah, like I mean it’s crazy. You know like and and I think these people should be exposed because you’re exploiting. You know someone in need like for their like fitness is. Usually they’re coming to you when, like, when you need someone, when someone’s like, you need like sometimes it’s desperate need like maybe they are seriously going to have a health problem if they don’t get some help, like if they don’t lose weight or whatever it is. And these people are, like you know, photo shopping or showing that they get this person results and they don’t, or that this is going to work and it doesn’t Like. So that kind of stuff I think is important, but it’s also kind of I don’t know you can go down the rabbit hole of Washington. 0:59:53 – Jeff PelizzaroIt’s Tread with caution. 0:59:54 – Cody WescottYeah, and then he also like goes into other stuff too. But yeah, okay, yeah. 0:59:59 – Jeff PelizzaroCause I know so. So bioling Lee Norton, you know he he does a little bit of that. So if you’re saying this is you know he just kind of calls people out on their BS, right, but this sounds like it’s a whole, it’s a whole different level of you know, kind of investigating and and bringing people to light, yeah, and then you know and then he’ll like you know the finding people that have like fraudulent followers, like I think that’s pretty big in our space too. 1:00:21 – Cody WescottIt’s like competition is fine, right, like other people in our space fitness, golf, fitness, whatever it is like he doesn’t like exposing one of the golf fitness space. I’m not calling out like anyone in our little group here, but you know it’s it’s it’s competition as fair cheating is not. 1:00:39 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah. 1:00:39 – Cody WescottSo if you’re, if you’re showing like the hey, my accounts of this and I’m doing on this grade and you’re really not like it’s, it’s wrong. 1:00:46 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, false advertising. Yeah, for sure. All right, man. Last question what’s the best piece of golf advice that you’ve ever been given? 1:00:53 – Cody WescottYou know. So the only piece I ever got for like years was keep your left arm straight. And when I got my first golf lesson the guy was like man, you really keep that left arm straight, don’t you? But but no, and then I think lately I’m kind of talking with what why we talked earlier. I have a client who’s a really good golfer, club champ Southern Hills, and we’ve kind of talked about this whole like, and one of the things he said to me one day was play golf, not golf swing, right, and I don’t hit a draw very well, I cut the ball, I can hit it straight Well, sometimes you know, not all in command, I’m not a pro, but I don’t hit draws very well. But if so, if I stand up there and I have to hit a draw and I’m thinking about club path and starting, you know starting line and this and that and what I got to do to get the ball to go right to left, I’m screwed. But if I just stand up there and like take like a caveman, ask, like look at the ball and like ball go there, you know kind of thing like little white ball go that way, it’s better. Not doesn’t always work, but you know taps into that inner athlete right. 1:01:57 – Jeff PelizzaroJust see the ball and smack it. 1:01:59 – Cody WescottJust hit the ball. Just hit the little white ball. 1:02:02 – Jeff PelizzaroJust do it Awesome. All right, my man, this was a lot of fun and I’m looking forward to watching your content. Continue to build and grow and the train heavy swing fast program. It looks there you go again. Yeah, you know, looks awesome. So, guys, make sure you go check out Cody Wescott and it’s where’s the best place for them to follow you Instagram, right? 1:02:23 – Cody WescottAnd you know I love YouTube. I think YouTube is a super high value, but, yeah, instagram is my biggest platform. So, but, cody Wescott, golf anywhere, I’m on everything. So whatever your cup of tea is, I’ll be there. 1:02:35 – Jeff PelizzaroAwesome, brother. Really appreciate you being here and I know the 18STRONG crew is going to go check you out and we’ll be in touch soon. I appreciate it. Thanks for having me, thanks for listening to the 18STRONG podcast and if you found this episode helpful, don’t forget to share with your friends. And, of course, go follow us over on Instagram at 18STRONG. Thanks again. We’ll catch up with you next week. Train hard, practice smart and play better golf. Transcribed by https://podium.page

Guest: Dr. Jason Selk (Peak Performance Coach, Sports Psychologist, Best Selling Author)Host: Jeff PelizzaroEpisode Number: 367Podcast: The 18STRONG PodcastPartners: Linksoul, 1stPhorm Summary Have you ever caught yourself stuck on the hamster wheel of negative thinking when facing a challenge? Dr. Jason Selk (Full Bio Below), a master of sports psychology and performance coaching, joins us to turn that wheel in a new direction with his game-changing concept: Relentless Solution Focus (RSF). Together, we unpack the transformative power of pivoting from problem-centric to solution-based thinking — a skill that not only enhances mental toughness but also potentially adds years to your life. Imagine your brain as an athlete; with the right training, it can muscle out stress-inducing thoughts and replace them with a winning strategy. Throughout our discussion, Dr. Selk provides actionable techniques to rewire your brain for success. These include daily mental exercises and success logs aimed at fostering positive neural pathways. Moreover, we explore real-life triumphs in the sports arena where a steadfast commitment to solutions has led to unprecedented victories, showcasing the profound impact of RSF in high-pressure environments. As we wrap up our chat with Dr. Selk, the conversation shifts to the greens, where golfers know all too well the mental game’s highs and lows. We talk about the importance of a clear mindset and structured goal setting, taking a leaf from Stephen Covey’s book on proactivity. Whether you’re looking to shave strokes off your game or elevate your professional performance, embracing an RSF mentality could be your ticket to resilience and success. So, grab your clubs and your headphones, and get ready to play your best round yet, both in life and on the course. Dr. Jason Selk Bio Dr. Jason Selk served as the Director of Mental Training for the St. Louis Cardinals, helping them win two World Series championships in six years. He assists athletes, business leaders, and salespeople in developing mental toughness, confidence, and focus. Dr. Selk is a licensed mental health professional with a doctorate in counseling and sports psychology from the University of Missouri. He has worked with notable companies like Morgan Stanley, Ernst & Young, Merrill Lynch, Bacardi, and Enterprise Rent-a-Car. Dr. Selk is a regular contributor to Forbes and Inc., featured in various publications, and has appeared on major television and radio networks. In 2022, he co-founded the Level Up app for performance coaching. His books, including “Relentless Solution Focus,” “Executive Toughness,” “10-Minute Toughness,” and “Organize Tomorrow Today,” have received acclaim and best-seller status. Main Topics (00:03) Mental Toughness and Solution Focus Dr. Jason Selk discusses the benefits of Relentless Solution Focus and practical strategies to enhance mental toughness. (12:39) Changing Brain Biology to Improve Performance RSF thinking can improve performance by countering the caudate loop and shifting from PCT, as seen in sports teams’ success. (24:04) Golf Performance Thoughts and Control Mental focus and thought patterns impact golf performance, including anger and negative thinking. Performance statements and avoiding negative discussions are important. (30:40) Being Proactive, Setting Goals Proactive goal-setting is crucial for personal and professional development, with process goals being the key to success. (40:57) Relentless Solution Focus and 18STRONG Dr. Selk discusses Relentless Solution Focus and its application to improve mental toughness and performance in golf and life. Follow Dr. Jason Selk Instagram: @drjasonselk Website: JasonSelk.com Relentless Solution Focus Book Dr. Selk’s other books Links Mentioned How to Win Friends and Influence People – Dale Carnegie Episode Partners: LINKSOUL: For your 20% discount on LINKSOUL gear, go to 18strong.com/linksoul or click the logo above. 1st Phorm: Try any of the 1st Phorm products with FREE SHIPPING, go to 1stphorm.com/18strong.com (By using this link, you will be entered into our Monthly 1st Phorm Giveaway!) More Cool Stuff to Check Out: To continue the conversation and ask any questions you may have, head over to the 18STRONG Movement group on Facebook. 18STRONG Pro Shop (Get your 18STRONG gear!) 18STRONG Resources (All of the cool stuff we recommend: products, books, golf stuff, etc – and discount codes for the 18STRONG Crew) Want the full episode transcript? (click the “+” ????????) Jeff Pelizzaro: [00:00:00] The 18STRONG Podcast episode number 367 with Dr. Jason Selk, sports psychologist and performance coach. What’s up guys. Welcome back to the 18STRONG Podcast where we’re here to help you build a stronger game because we believe every golfer deserves to play better longer. This week we have a special guest, Dr. Jason Selk in studio to talk about his book, Relentless Solution Focus. And really just to talk about the RSF mentality, which is getting out of the cycle of thinking of our problems all the time, which tends to get us in trouble on and off the golf course and learning how to truly focus on the solutions that are going to resolve those problems or at least pieces of those [00:01:00] problems. So it’s learning how to shift your focus from the problem over to the solution. This is the number one characteristic of mental toughness, which Jason’s going to explain in this episode. He also teaches us not just how to understand this. The knowledge of it, but also how to take action and truly train our brains to do that. Just like you would train your muscles. So you really enjoy this episode with Jason. Our partners over at Link Soul have been providing us with the best apparel for both on the course and off the course from polos to t shirts like the one I have on right now. Everything that they have is meant to be worn from the golf course to wherever you’re going next, whether that be casual, whether that be to the beach. There’s all different options over there. So go to 18strong. com slash Linksoul. You’ll get 20 percent off of anything in your cart over on Linksoul’s website. So again, 18strong. com slash Linksoul for our favorite brand of apparel for anything on the golf course and off. Now let’s get to this week’s interview.[00:02:00] Dr. Silk, welcome to the 18STRONG Podcast. Jeff, Dr. Jason Selk: thanks for having me. As I said, you gotta please call me Jason. Absolutely, Jeff Pelizzaro: absolutely. First and foremost, this book, your book, Relentless Solution Focus, has been recommended several times on our last couple of podcasts. And it just happens that you’re a St. Louis guy, you live not too far down the road, and you were nice enough to come into the studio. So I can’t wait to dig into this, literally just finished it this morning, and but I want to talk to you first of all and foremost about mental toughness. Define mental toughness for us to just kick off the show. Dr. Jason Selk: We’re going to get right to it, huh? Yeah, for sure. I have had, hundreds of definitions of mental toughness over the last 25 years, but I think the one for me that sticks the most is the mind’s ability, To stay focused on solutions, especially in the face of adversity. Nobody needs mental toughness when the scoreboard is in your favor.[00:03:00] It’s when you’re losing by two or three runs, you’re down to your last out. It’s when your bank account is dwindling and you’re not sure how your pipeline is going to fill back up. It’s when you’re in a relationship and it’s not as easy as it used to be. I think those are the times where People really need mental toughness. Jeff Pelizzaro: And one of the most crucial pieces of the book is the fact that most of the time we tend to focus on the things that are going wrong the problems that we have. Can you speak a little bit to really the, that’s the big piece and some of the pieces that we can dive into to help. Dr. Jason Selk: Yeah, I think it’s important to normalize for people that, unfortunately, the way our brains are built, it is completely normal, biologically speaking, to focus on the problem. It’s called PCT, [00:04:00] problem centric thinking. Hundreds of years ago, it was necessary for the advancement of the species. That, if we weren’t always worried about the threat that was lurking in the bushes, then we were more than likely going to end up in the lion’s den. And so hundreds of years ago, it was critical for survival, for literally, for our species to advance. Fast forward hundreds of years, and we live in a very safe time now, comparatively speaking, and so that same PCT tendency Even though it, hundreds of years ago, was so good for us, it’s now so bad for us. We just went through this worldwide pandemic, and the truth of the matter is, PCT will take more lives by far than any pandemic, hopefully, that we ever face. Certainly anything we’ve ever faced. Because we actually, when we allow our minds to do what’s totally [00:05:00] normal, which is Focus on the problem. The brain releases a neurotransmitter called cortisol. Cortisol, it’s the punctuation of fight or flight. And that is where, the advancement or the survival of the species was affected in such a positive way, was us living a lot of our lives in that fight or flight mode. However, when that cortisol goes in the bloodstream, it’s a toxin for us. It causes all feelings of stress. anxiety, fear, anger, depression, guilt, but it literally is like a poison. Now, the good thing is that when the cortisol goes in, it’s such a low dose, but shoot, if you inject yourself with low doses of poison, even if it’s just small amounts and low doses over time, that’s going to get you. And here’s what I tell you, people with. RSF and RSF is, it’s the title of the book, relentless Solution Focus. I think you could [00:06:00] interchange RSF for mental toughness. I really think they’re almost synonymous. So a person with RSF or a person with mental toughness, biologically speaking, is going to live on average 14 years longer. Wow. It’s crazy. You think about 14 years, think, what were you doing 14 years ago? That’s a long time. And. The kicker is not only will you live significantly longer, but scientifically proven again that you’re going to have measurable increases in health, happiness, and success, is if you can really learn to keep the mind away from that biologically normal PCT, which we know, with some training, doesn’t take major amounts, some, we can actually train PCT to go away And be replaced with RSF. So I could say PCT is mental weakness and I could [00:07:00] say RSF is mental toughness. With training, we can all become mentally tough, just as. When I’m born, my bicep is completely weak, but with training, I can make that guy pretty strong. With training. Yeah, and that’s Jeff Pelizzaro: the big piece that I took out of it is, mental toughness to me, that’s a noun, right? But RSF is you have to take action too. You can read all the books. And one of the big pieces of your book is that it’s not just about the knowledge. You’re actually giving a way for us to train. And I remember the story in there about when you were out on your deck and came up with the idea of Hey, we train our bodies. We have to train our mind. And so speak to how important the action piece is. We can hear it all though. We hear it all the time, but it Dr. Jason Selk: really hits home. Yeah, I think it’s why I’ve had so much success in my career. I know it’s what got me the job at the St. Louis Cardinals back in 2006. That, I think you get a lot of people in the mental health field. [00:08:00] And, maybe you say in the sports psychology world where it’s very much, let me teach you certain things. And I learned a long time ago, knowing something does nothing, doing something does. And again, if you look at, The biology of the brain. That’s the part I think people must understand that all day long I can pep talk you to be strong. Jeff, you know a lot about making the body strong That’s really your bread and butter. You could teach me so many things about having strong biceps or strong legs But until I get my butt up off this chair and go out there and start doing some of the exercises nothing changes and I know You know with my approach, a mental workout, it is a, when I was working with the Cardinals, it was three minutes and 40 seconds. People in the business world, it’s a minute and 40 seconds. And there are biological reasons, I need to, with an athlete, do enough visualization where it actually starts to create muscle memory. And we know [00:09:00] you can do that. In the business world, we don’t need muscle memory. We just really need that mental memory. So we don’t need to have it as long. But, again, it’s not a pep talk. Mental toughness is no more a pep talk than physical toughness is. However, you got most people like me. are going to tell you a pep talk will do it. And I would just challenge you. And I think this is why in my career, the people I’ve worked with have had a lot of success that we don’t talk about it. We do it, we train it. And once you train it, you really can’t. Not have it there when you want it. Jeff Pelizzaro: Can you break down a little bit of what RSF stands for? How do you go from that PCT thinking to more of the solution focused thinking? Dr. Jason Selk: Yeah, so just definition, RSF is Relentless Solution Focus. And the definition I use is within 60 seconds replacing all negative or problem focused thought with Solution focused thinking, the reason we want to do it [00:10:00] quickly, the 60 seconds and I don’t know that people need to get their stopwatches out or protractors out, but the whole idea is to move your thoughts from problem to solution and do it quickly because the longer I stay focused on the problem, the more that cortisol is being pushed into the bloodstream. Now, I told you, cortisol makes you feel like garbage, but it also makes you stupid. If you think about fight or flight, your brain, the essence of fight or flight is your brain is just losing its ability for detailed thinking. Translation to me is, you become dumb. And I know this, if I’m trying to solve a problem, I need to be as smart as possible. So I want to, as quickly as possible, start working on the solution. But again, it’s completely abnormal. It’s biologically ingrained for me to think about the problem. And then most people believe, and I call this the great myth, that most people believe if you start thinking about a problem, it will naturally [00:11:00] lead you to a solution. And there’s just no empirical evidence anywhere to support that. When I first started I was doing a lot of marriage counseling. I was taking any, anyone who needed my services. I specialized in sport, but I had to pay the bills and I was doing marriage counseling. I was doing drug and alcohol counseling. I did anything any mental health person could or would do, I was doing. And so I had this couple and they were two physicians. They’d been married 30 years. Living in separate bedrooms for the last 10 years. . But I thought, okay, no problem. I, they train you something in, in in graduate school for marriage counseling. It’s called the ABCs of Communication. They’re still teaching this today. By the way, the A is you learn to say to your spouse, I feel B is when you see is in this situation. So these two come into the office and I’m really optimistic. [00:12:00] And I know they’re not doing very well, but I’ve got the ABCs, I’m gonna have them back in the rack in no time, no problem, right? So they sit down and I lay the ABCs on them, and World War III broke out. And I couldn’t control it, and they left the office, and I was very concerned. I thought I’m trying to build a practice here, and if people come in and they have 10 problems, and they leave and they’ve got 14 problems, They’re going to stop coming in pretty quickly and above and beyond that, I just, I want to help people. And so I started thinking, what did I just do? And thankfully I had this training with PCT and understood that PCT was this thing. And the ABCs are forcing people into that PCT mode. And I saw it in real life. You talk about the problems, you’re going to keep talking about the problems. And if you look at the brain, how the biology works, it’s called the caudate. It’s a little piece of your brain, and it’s built to loop, and that’s really that safety of the species [00:13:00] that I know there’s a lion over there, and I’m trying to build a shelter over here, but my brain keeps looping back to the lion, so that I don’t forget about it, because people are easily distracted, but we have a built in loop that will keep driving us back to our problems, so it’s pretty cool. What we have to do to be able to leave the PCT thought is we have to actually train the brain. Now the good news is there are certain elements of training mentally speaking that you can actually stop that loop from happening. You can cause it to have atrophy, if you will, and then you strengthen another neural pattern. And really it is, there’s a couple of things. One would be the mental workout, which is, I talked about a little bit before. It’s probably a little bit too heavy to get into, but it’s only a minute and 40 seconds daily. And I try to do it at least three times a week. And then you’ve got what are called success logs. And this is 30 seconds, and if you do those three times a week, biologically speaking, if you look at the science, you can’t stop the brain from [00:14:00] moving forward with its ability to be more RSF than PCT. So for me, because I’ve been doing this stuff for so long, When I’m around PCT, it’s just like a, it’s like somebody, I, it’s, I’m so aware of it now. It’s all over the place. So I try not to let it bother me, but I’m very aware of it. And even in my own world, when it shows up, it feels now foreign to me. I will not put much time or energy thinking, talking, behaving in that PCT mode. Here are the three questions. One. What did I do well today? Write down on a daily basis, do it three times a week, three things you did well. I’m just curious. When’s the last time you actually recognized what you did well? It’s pretty abnormal. Okay? Second question. What’s one thing you want to improve? Third question. What’s one action step you can take to make the improvement? And if you ask those questions three times a week, you create neural pathways. Your brain starts to lean into those neural pathways. That’s RSF thinking. What’s going [00:15:00] well? What do I want to improve? How am I going to make the improvement? The normal brain thinks, overlook all the good stuff, and zero in on your imperfections. You want to screw yourself up? You want to ruin your performance? Let yourself do that. I guarantee you, give me two athletes. One that doesn’t have any training, and one that will just start doing success logs and mental workouts. If they have the same skill set, there will be no comparison in two to three months. No way. And the more pressure you put on it The better my guy’s gonna perform. Sure. No doubt about it. It’s just changing the biology of the brain. It’s like you, take two athletes with the same skill set, make one of them physically stronger. Who’s gonna do better? Yeah. It’s not even a fair fight. And again, I’ve been really lucky in my career. I was with the Cardinals for six years. We win two World Series. I started with Auburn baseball a couple years ago. Predicted to be last in the SEC. We took fifth in the country. Started working with SMU’s football team last year. I’m not trying to get [00:16:00] back in the sports world, so people watching this, please, that’s not my goal. But it was a personal thing to get me back in with Auburn and SMU. But SMU hadn’t won an AAC championship in 40 years. 4 0. And we won it this year. Oh my gosh. Congratulations. Thank you. I’m not saying it to pat myself on the back. I’m just saying, it’s biology. If you change biology for the better, You’re going to have a much better chance of winning in head to head competition. Perfect. Jeff Pelizzaro: When we get focused on problems, and I’m speaking for myself too, it’s really easy to perseverate on it, like you said, the whole loop, but I feel like it’s also really easy to let that kind of snowball, and you tell a couple stories of how it snowballs from one little thing, and then all of a sudden My life is in a terrible place and I’m, and then the whole neurological and psychological physiology starts to happen too. So when, one thing that was refreshing to me, that You point out in the book is you don’t have to solve all your problems [00:17:00] either is pick one thing and you don’t have to solve that problem. You have to just take that one little piece and move forward. No Dr. Jason Selk: doubt. And if you think about whether it be competition or a relationship interaction, you’re right. It starts with one little mistake and then you’re done. Gets a little bit worse. Your performance gets a little bit worse. Performance gets a little bit worse. And every time performance gets a little bit worse, obviously the problem gains more and more momentum. So all you have to realize is And this is the hardest part is, you got to be able to recognize when it’s happening. That’s the hardest part because biologically you’re trying to recognize something that you’re built to do. It’s very difficult. It’s so normal to just get pulled into that caudate loop and let that one little problem or mistake start to snowball. So what we really want to do is, as quickly as we can, [00:18:00] interrupt that loop. And it’s simple. The interruption, but again, you first have to recognize, Okay, I’m focused on a problem and there is absolutely nothing positive that’s going to come from this. And I want to be very clear when I say this. Because some people believe. That by focusing on the problem, that’s where the value is. You do your own homework. Find some empirical evidence anywhere. If you find it, please email me because I need to see it. I’ve been searching for 20 years now and I’m just going to tell people there is no empirical evidence that focusing on the problem is going to lead to the solution or improve the performance. In fact, it’s the absolute contrary. It’s gonna totally start to devastate you. The first step is you gotta recognize, okay, my mind’s focused on the problem. And as easy as it sounds, it’s actually quite difficult. That’s where the training comes in. That’s if you have a little bit of that mental toughness, that neural patterning of the other stuff, this problem [00:19:00] centric pattern starts to seem a little bit foreign. And then you just simply, with one simple question, you What’s one thing I can do, right now, that could make this better. And I’m a big believer, I tell the Nando Parado story about one inch. Just look for an inch of improvement. Because if there’s a problem, and you can break the problem loop, And start to create momentum forward, then we start to have momentum moving in the right direction instead of momentum moving around in circles, or in this case, the wrong direction. What is one thing? Start looking for two or three things, we’re screwed. Start looking for the mile of improvement, we’re done. Find one thing, one inch, and you become relentless about one thing, one inch. You’ll love the results. Love the results. You were talking Jeff Pelizzaro: about the physiological changes, the cortisol, and I would imagine, and this kind of, since reading this, [00:20:00] what I’ve tried to pay attention to is, when I do start to get a little bit of that feeling starting to wor that’s almost you can use that as your trigger, right? Oh, I’m heading in the wrong path. At least for me, that was like, okay. I gotta, I got my 60 seconds. I gotta now pull out my sheet and figure out what’s the one thing. Dr. Jason Selk: Yeah, so if you just think right now, in the last 24 hours, how often have you experienced stress? You don’t have to answer. It’s a little bit rhetorical, but I want the listeners to think too. Were there three or four times that jump out? Was it one time that lasted for a couple hours? Was it 20 times, and anytime you experience that stress, you know your brain’s focused on the problem. We’re not even biologically able to experience stress, anxiety, fear, anger, depression, guilt. Those are what I call the nasty six. You can’t experience those without the cortisol. And the cortisol doesn’t go in without the [00:21:00] mind first focusing on a problem. So the alarm system, really the built in biological alarm that we all have is, The experience of any negative emotion and you think anytime you experience stress is an opportunity For you to start working on a solution. You just you know, you got to start looking out for stress and don’t give yourself permission stress gets a really bad name stress is actually if you think about it on a one to ten scale one two, three and four levels of stress Without them, we’re dead. I drove over here and I’m not the, I was on the phone playing on the radio on the way over here and without two or three, on that level of stress. I’m going all over, smashing into things. So 1, 2, 3, 4, I would say are healthy levels of stress. You’re not going to feel any negative emotion. It just keeps you on the correct decision making path. 5, 6, 7, [00:22:00] 8, 9, 10, all that. I want people to start viewing as unacceptable. It’s unhealthy. When you start to feel that 10, that’s when you’re self injecting cortisol. It’s like putting a poison or a toxin in you. That’s when you got to say, okay, wait, stop. I know I’m focused on a problem, I don’t even need to know exactly what the problem is, just here’s the question. What’s one thing I can do right now that could make this one inch better? And start putting your energy into that. Jeff Pelizzaro: Let’s take a second to thank our sponsors over at FirstForm. And this week I want to highlight their Formula One Post Workout Protein Shake. I use this thing pretty much every day after my workouts because, let’s face it, being here in the gym, working all the time with clients. putting on a podcast. It can sometimes be tough to get my protein in on a regular basis. And so I know that with the post workout shake, the Formula One, first of all, it’s fast acting. So right after your workout is a great time to get your protein in to help build your muscles, get yourself stronger, and repair what you’ve done in the gym. But [00:23:00] also, if you don’t know if you’re going to be able to get your protein in your regular meals, it’s just a great way to make sure that you’re supplementing and hitting those marks. So be sure to go over to FirstForm. com. So let’s shift it now to, to the golf world. I know you’ve worked with tons of athletes, I’m sure you’ve worked with quite a few golfers. So how does this show up in, in our lives? On the golf course, in our training sessions, in our practice sessions and, what’s, what are the things that first get us stuck, and then how do we start moving with the Dr. Jason Selk: RSF? Alright, so two, and I’ll just generalize here, but have you ever broken a club, Jeff? No. Have you ever thrown a club? Jeff Pelizzaro: I don’t think so. Okay. But come, but maybe a little, Dr. Jason Selk: You understand the ground. Yeah, absolutely. That’d be [00:24:00] one thing. Anytime you’re showing anger, where do you think your brain is? You’re not PCT for sure. There’s no doubt. It’s got a hold of you and you’ve let that, if we’re looking at anger on the one to 10, you’re at 6, 7, 8, 9, 10. When you’re throwing clubs, you’re screaming cuss words, you’re grouchy. , any of that stuff, you’re on PCT here. Here’s the other one. The don’t thinking, don’t. Hit it in the water. Don’t go left. Don’t slice. Don’t screw this up. Here’s another one. Now, it’s not quite as evident, but when you’re starting to calculate the final score. You’re on 16 and you’re saying to yourself if this, then This is where I’m going to be when I get in the clubhouse. Anytime you’re doing that sort of stuff, any of those three, I would tell you, you got your brain focused on the wrong stuff. And so you, okay what am I supposed to focus on? Because I could say to you all day long, Don’t think about a pink elephant with blue running shoes. And I know people listening, [00:25:00] I just said, don’t think about the pink elephant with blue running shoes, and that’s probably exactly what crossed your mind. So you gotta, instead of thinking about the pink elephant, you have to have something to think about. So I’ll do it again. This time I’m going to tell you, don’t think about a pink elephant. This time I want you to think, what’s your favorite color? What is your favorite color? Green. Alright, I want you to think about a big, beautiful, green, hot air balloon. Yeah. Alright, so don’t think about a pink elephant with blue running shoes. Yeah. You got the hot air balloon? Yeah, got it. Don’t let a pink elephant with blue running shoes get into your mind. Yeah. Okay, so RSF is the green hot air balloon. But you obviously, there is value in just not thinking about your problems, but I don’t want to be that professional. I want to know what’s the most valuable thought control. Part of thought control is stop thinking about the negative and I think when you have like gratitude journals, That’s really good stuff. [00:26:00] Anything other than your problems is a good thing. Because you’re not pushing the cortisol in the bloodstream. But if I can get the most appropriate solution focused thought, or thought control. So I would, for an athlete, for a golfer, we would come up with what’s called a performance statement. So let me think about a guy I work with who’s actually on the tour. Okay head down, tempo 7. Supinate. Okay, so he just, he wants to look at one dimple on the ball, even when the ball’s gone, his tempo of the backswing for him, he likes it at a seven, and then supinate is just follow through. So instead of thinking about all the don’ts or all the things that went wrong or all the things that could happen, I want him focused on that one thought. That most causes success for him, and that, in the sports world, would be what I call the performance statement. Every athlete I work with, [00:27:00] we’re going to come up with a performance statement, and then we review that performance statement. You heard me talk earlier about the mental workout. So we’re just reminding ourselves on a regular basis, we’re training ourselves. To be focused on that one thing throughout competition. Jeff Pelizzaro: And are there times when you have different performance statements for different, say, different parts of the game? Putting versus being on the tee Dr. Jason Selk: box. For sure. So I would want, I would just want a full swing and then putting. So typically with a golfer, I want to have two performance statements. One for each of those. Jeff Pelizzaro: You mention in the book that we tend to bond with each other over our problems, right? And I’m thinking of golfers, and I’m thinking of being on the golf course, and the way that we talk to each other, the way that we talk to ourselves, and many times it’s jokingly. But is that impacting how we play? Dr. Jason Selk: Absolutely, no doubt about it. And it’s no different. You guys are on the 18th hole, but think about, at the workplace. People are hanging around the, the coffee [00:28:00] break room. What do you think they’re talking about? How great life is? Or are they complaining about problems? Here’s another thing. What about the news? Yeah. I had to, literally, I had to quit watching the news 20 years ago. And it’s a real problem in my house. My wife wants to turn on the today show and it’s just like fingernails on a chalkboard for me because. All the people want to talk about are the problems. And I’m not saying we don’t have problems. I don’t put my head in the sand. I just know this, that when a problem enters my life, I’m not going to think or talk about it. I’m going to kick its ass. And that’s not what happens on the Today Show. And that’s not what happens when people are on the 18th hole, ruminating about all the things that went wrong out there and laughing about how bad we are as golfers. I would just tell you. Don’t participate in any of that stuff. That’s not making you better. It’s making you worse. And what you’ll find is your life’s going to be a whole lot better when you stop. Hangin around all these people who all they want to talk about is problems. Which is, [00:29:00] for the most part, just about everybody out there. So you gotta be a little bit careful with that last piece of advice. Jeff Pelizzaro: Alright, last little thing I want to touch on before we jump into our final segment of questions is goals. You break down, specifically, long term goals, short term goals. And how long term goals, it’s important to think big, it’s important to, really shoot for the moon, shoot for the stars, but short term goals have to be a little bit more realistic. And this is the first time that I’ve really seen somebody break it down and talk about why. Your short term goals need to be a little bit more realistic, and you can’t, make some crazy thought of what you’re going to achieve in a short Dr. Jason Selk: period of time. Yeah, and I really, it’s, everything I do is all just science. And not textbook science. Textbook is the first place, but then it’s got to be proven in real life. Empirical evidence. I was just watching Stephen Covey. His work I didn’t love the book Seven Habits, but he has a speech, hour long speech on each of the seven habits and it’s the most mind opening. John Wooden. And Steve and Covey have opened my mind more than any other two [00:30:00] people, but I just watched Covey’s first habit. It was proactive. Be proactive. And I didn’t fully understand it when I first started studying him years ago. And really, what Covey says with the pro, be proactive, is if you don’t have a game plan when you wake up, you’re gonna be just blown around by the wind. And I think, we’ve talked about PCT and there’s all kinds of reasons that if you don’t have a direction to start the day with, It’s quite likely you’re going to end up in the wrong spot. And so Covey, his concept of be proactive. And he says, it’s the most important of all seven of the habits, which I actually agree. It’s what I call, you must have a winning game plan. Now he doesn’t really talk about the specifics of what you need to do to be proactive. He’s just saying that if you’re not, you’re going to have real problems. So what I’ve tried to do is again, take science and performance science and really figure out, okay, what. What really does it mean to be proactive? And [00:31:00] there’s three levels of goals you talked about. I got vision, product, and process. Vision are result oriented goals three years or longer. And I know you have this concept, people have this concept of with goal setting, set it high and hope to get close. You got to also be really careful of this. There’s no empirical evidence to support that’s a good thing unless it’s in three year or longer periods. In less than three year periods, it’s like the New Year’s resolution. You set a high goal, you have no chance of reaching it, and then you end up just quitting on it. And that’s a really bad thing, because without goals, we are not proactive, we’re reactive. So you have to have goals. Most people don’t. They don’t know, they’ve never been taught how to effectively set goals. So they’re just, by default, not using goals, which means they’re really going to be starting each day reactive. It’s a really bad thing for the human condition. Anyway, vision would be a product goal, three years or longer. [00:32:00] Result, when I say product, I mean result. And then your second level of goal would be a product goal, twelve years or closer. And then your third would be Twelve months. Excuse me, I’m sorry, did I say twelve years? Twelve months or closer. And then your third level would be process goals. Process goals are the daily activities that are most important that will cause product and vision results to occur. Alright, so you might say, if I give you an example, I might say, okay, I’m in sales, and let’s use a golf example. I might say, okay, three years from now, I want to have won three majors. All right, so my product goal this year is I want to win one major. My process goals, and this is where you either win or lose is process. And most people as they get so focused on the product and they forget the process. Coach Wooden, he popularized this [00:33:00] 30 years ago and science has since confirmed this is your number one way to control for results. Focus on the process. And I would just say, you never want to have more than two or three process goals, but they want to be the most important activity. So it might be, I’m going to commit to mental workouts and success logs five days a week. I’m going to do strength and conditioning five days a week. And I’m going to follow my coach’s training plan six days a week. And we want to be, in the athletic world. With process goals, you really gotta be close to 100%, especially if you’re trying to compete at the pro level. In the business world I just tell you, it’s a lot easier if you can get two or three really good process goals in the business world, you go 90%, you’re going to win a major, you’re going to win multiple majors every year. But back in the sports world, the main thing I’d tell people is, when you set goals, vision, product, process, make sure you put the most energy, emphasis, focus, by far, [00:34:00] no comparison on those process goals. Jeff Pelizzaro: I love it. All right, a couple of closing questions we ask everybody that comes on the show. Just have a little fun. Caddyshack or Dr. Jason Selk: Happy Gilmore. I’m a huge Chevy Chase fan. I love Bill Murray, so absolutely no doubt about it Caddyshack. But, Adam Sandler held his own in Jeff Pelizzaro: Happy Gilmore. If you could pick a walk up song to the first T Box, do you play a lot of golf? Do you play Dr. Jason Selk: much? It’s interesting. You’re not going to like my answer. The last time I played golf was three days before I opened my private practice, so it’s been, 25, 30 years. Okay, wow. I just, I have spent so much time working, and I also felt, you know what? I’m going to have a lot of clients that are on the tour, they’re trying to get on the tour, and they’re going to want to go play golf if they know I play golf, and I’m going to look like a real fool. Just I’m not going to go out on the baseball field with any of my players, or the football field, I’m going to keep it on the sidelines no I don’t play. If I had a walk up song, oh I don’t know what’s that Eminem song? I, over the years I’ve had some walk up [00:35:00] songs for speeches what’s the Eminem song? Lose Yourself? Yeah, Lose Yourself. I really like that one. There was an ACDC song my good friend Cole Hillen put me on to, Thunderstruck, that was a good one. I’d probably go with one of those too. Okay. Maybe Hell’s Bells even, ACDC there, get people rocking a little bit. Jeff Pelizzaro: Is there a book, aside from the books that you’ve written, that has really meant a whole lot to you, that you tend to recommend to people, or that has just been special for you personally? Yeah, I Dr. Jason Selk: think from social standpoint, really from a professional or personal standpoint. Number one book I’ve ever read is Dale Carnegie’s How to Win Friends and Influence People. It’s written in 1926. The title, I think, Is a little off putting for some people. It’s not about manipulation, right? It really is about influence and the different, manipulation is I get what I want, but you don’t influences. We both get what we want. That book is so good at teaching social skills of how to get anyone involved. [00:36:00] to get what they want. Everybody wins, the more people that understand those concepts. I literally just bought that Jeff Pelizzaro: book for my 15 year old son. It’s about as Dr. Jason Selk: in my opinion, it’s the best that there is. Best book ever written, in my opinion. Awesome. Jeff Pelizzaro: If you could pick a dream foursome that you could go play golf with past historical figures, celebrities, whoever it might be, who would you put in your Dr. Jason Selk: foursome? I’d definitely put Coach Wooden in there. I was able to spend a little time with him before he passed away. It was enough to make me want so much more. I’d love spend a little time with Lombardi. I think that’d be interesting. I’ve studied him pretty deeply. And if I could get a round of golf with my dad. He passed away three years ago. I’d take it any day of the week. I’d go out and as long as it could take, I’d be out there swinging those clubs. I love it. Jeff Pelizzaro: Alright, if we had the 18STRONG jet fueled up and you could take those guys to any course in the world, where are you going to go? Dr. Jason Selk: I love going to Vegas. They got some good courses [00:37:00] out there and once we get off the course, I can show everybody a good time. I don’t know I wouldn’t mind spending a little time in Ireland. I heard they have some pretty good courses over in Ireland and Scotland, but Ireland, Scotland, or Vegas. I’ll let those three pick. Perfect. Jeff Pelizzaro: Is there a social media account that you follow in any realm that you think would be good for the 18STRONG crew to check out? I’d Dr. Jason Selk: love to say yes, but honestly, I haven’t been on social media for even one second for the last 12 months. Personally, and I’m not telling people not to be on social media. Personally, my life’s better because I’m not on it. I know I have an account myself, and I know it’s pretty active, but I You know, people manage it for me. I literally couldn’t even get on if I wanted to because I don’t even have passwords to get on. I don’t follow anyone, not to say that people shouldn’t, but me personally, I’ve found my life’s a little bit better without Jeff Pelizzaro: social media. No, I think that says a lot. That’s awesome. Alright, last one, and I know that you haven’t played golf in over 25 years. Yeah. But what’s the best piece of golf advice you’ve ever been Dr. Jason Selk: given? I [00:38:00] think I’d put it The best advice I’ve ever given that I’ve heard people say as a pattern, and it’s a centering breath. Remember, when you’re on the practice range, you really have very little pressure on you. And so it’s easy to hit the ball long and straight. You walk over to the first tee, and all of a sudden, the club’s not quite the same. And a lot of that has to do with your heart rate. See, when you put yourself in a pressure situation, your biology is built. to elevate your heart rate. When the heart rate elevates, it changes all kinds of things, including the timing of your swing. So what we want to do is keep your heart rate under control. And I would tell you before, every actual swing, maybe not every practice swing, but every time you’re going to actually swing the club, make contact with the ball, try taking a centering breath. Breathe in for six seconds. Hold for two. Breathe out for seven and chances [00:39:00] are it’s just going to make it so much easier because you’ve trained to swing the club Successfully at let’s say 80 beats a minute and when you put pressure in there that 80 turns into 88, 92 pretty quickly Centering breath will put you back at the 70 so it’ll make it a little bit easier for your training to cause success under pressure. Six, hold, count. Not as fast as you can, but do the old one Mississippi, two Mississippi, in for six, hold for two, out for seven. Jeff Pelizzaro: Dr. Sock, thank you so much for coming on. This has been amazing. Everybody go check out Relentless Solution Focus. You can find it pretty much everywhere, I would assume. Thank you for coming on. Thanks for listening to the 18STRONG Podcast. And if you found this episode helpful, don’t forget to share it with your friends. And of course, go follow us over on Instagram, at 18STRONG. Thanks again. We’ll catch up with you next week. Train hard, practice smart, and play better golf.[00:40:00]

Guest: Dr. Kyle Richmond (Founder: REBUILT Strength & Rehab)Host: Jeff PelizzaroEpisode Number: 366Podcast: The 18STRONG PodcastPartners: Linksoul, 1stPhorm Summary Listen in as Kyle Richmond from Rebuilt Strength and Rehab joins us to unfold his transformative journey from a chiropractic student to a social media sensation and savvy entrepreneur. Discover how Kyle’s dedication to mobility and athletic performance, carved out a unique niche in chiropractic care. He shares the pivotal role Instagram reels played in expanding his reach and the surprising ways his online surge propelled his practice into virtual consultations and impactful partnerships. Kyle’s story is a testament to the boundless potential of social media in nurturing a business and connecting with clients in today’s digital landscape. During our conversation, Kyle and I exchange thoughts on modern chiropractic practices and the shift in public perception from pain relief to wellness and performance. We emphasize the critical importance of patient education and self-management, providing insights into comprehensive treatment strategies that transcend traditional adjustments. We also delve into the integration of mobility training in fitness regimes, clarifying the distinction between flexibility and mobility, and advocating for its role in enhancing movement control and injury prevention across various demographics. Wrapping up, we tackle the emerging issue of back pain among the younger generation, attributing it to the sedentary habits linked with technology use. Kyle and I highlight the benefits of incorporating simple mobility exercises, like Controlled Articular Rotations (CARS), to counteract these lifestyle patterns. We also touch upon the nuances of soft tissue therapy in clinical practice, debunking common myths and underscoring its genuine merits. Plus, don’t miss out on the lighter side of our discussion, where we share personal favorites and envision hypothetical celebrity golf matches, adding a personal flair to the professional discourse. Main Topics (00:04) Successful Practice Through Social Media Dr. Kyle Richmond shares his journey from chiropractic school to social media influencer and entrepreneur, leveraging Instagram reels to grow his practice and connect with clients. (08:48) Golf Swing Improvement and Chiropractic Practice Improving golf swing, modern chiropractic care, education, maintenance, and shift in public perception of chiropractic services. (14:46) Mobility Training for Strength’s Importance Mobility is crucial for fitness, as it involves active control and strength, benefits all ages, improves joint stability, and complements other forms of training. (20:25) Technology’s Impact on Back Pain Mobility, specifically Controlled Articular Rotations, is crucial for joint health in aging populations and athletes, while sedentary habits contribute to back pain in youth. (32:03) Importance of Movement and Rehabilitation Strategies for desk workers and golfers include thoracic extension exercises and hip mobility techniques. (42:19) Neural Connections and Bypassing Muscle Guards Nature’s protective mechanism, moderate stretching, and consistent exercise can improve mobility without extensive pre-workout routines. (47:22) History of REBUILT and Parting Questions Benefits of soft tissue therapy, clinic branding, and personal insights on movies, golf, and books. Follow Kyle Richmonds Instagram: @drkyle.richmond Links Mentioned Atomic Habits – James Clear The Dip – Seth Godin @Brock11Johnson Episode Partners: LINKSOUL: For your 20% discount on LINKSOUL gear, go to 18strong.com/linksoul or click the logo above. 1st Phorm: Try any of the 1st Phorm products with FREE SHIPPING, go to 1stphorm.com/18strong.com (By using this link, you will be entered into our Monthly 1st Phorm Giveaway!) More Cool Stuff to Check Out: To continue the conversation and ask any questions you may have, head over to the 18STRONG Movement group on Facebook. 18STRONG Pro Shop (Get your 18STRONG gear!) 18STRONG Resources (All of the cool stuff we recommend: products, books, golf stuff, etc – and discount codes for the 18STRONG Crew) Want the full episode transcript? (click the “+” ????????) 0:00:04 – Jeff PelizzaroThe 18STRONG Podcast, episode number 366, with Kyle Richmond from Rebuilt Strength and Rehab. What’s up guys? Welcome back to the 18STRONG Podcast, where we’re here to help you build a stronger game, because we know that every golfer deserves to play better, longer. This week we have Kyle Richmond from Rebuilt Strength and Rehab on the show, and Kyle’s a chiropractor up in the Chicago area that really I found by watching his Instagram videos. He’s posting a lot of great content in the world of chiropractic performance and especially mobility. He’s been talking a lot about the importance of being able to work on your mobility where it has a purpose and it’s going to help your athletic ability to play golf better, but really just to move better in overall life, and how you can do that with intent as opposed to just working on a bunch of stretching and flexibility exercises. Kyle’s posts are very popular in our world in the golf and fitness world and so it was cool to finally get to meet him and talk to him about his strategies, not just in the training facility, but also on how he built his Instagram account and how he built his following, how he has now turned that into a full brick and mortar business, that he’s starting to work with clients in his own facility. So you’re going to really enjoy this episode with Kyle Richmond. Our partners over at Linksoul have been providing us with the best apparel for both on the course and off the course, from polos to t-shirts like the one I have on right now. Everything that they have is meant to be worn from the golf course to wherever you’re going next, whether that be casual, whether that be to the beach there’s all different options over there. So go to 18STRONG.com slash Linksoul. You’ll get 20% off of anything in your cart over on Linksoul’s website. So again, 18STRONG.com, slash Linksoul for our favorite brand of apparel for anything on the golf course and off. So let’s get to this week’s interview. Kyle Richmond, welcome to the 18strong podcast. Yeah, for sure. So this is cool. This is the first time we’ve ever met connected, really, and one of the things that I love about what we do here. One of my favorite things at 18strong is like trying to find people that we really respect. We see them doing great things online, and your post just kept coming up in front of me on Instagram. You’ve posted quite a few of your things, and so it’s great to connect. It’s cool to see what you’re doing, and I like to think of us as kind of a lens that our golfers can go to, as like a trusted resource, because we know that if whatever’s on our page, if it’s us posting somebody else, it’s because it’s stuff that we like, it’s stuff that we trust, so you can do an awesome stuff. So first, thanks for doing that, thank you. 0:03:07 – Kyle RichmondI appreciate that. That’s incredible. The whole thing about now social media is that the people I’ve met, the rooms I’ve been in and stuff that I didn’t even expect I was the guy coming out of school like I don’t need social media, that’s stuff. That’s kind of done. I don’t want to do all these things, but now it’s like it’s really what my practice is like, how it revolved around now, which is amazing. 0:03:26 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah. So give me a little bit of that story, because you were saying you’re just kind of recently out of chiropractic school the last two years. You’ve just opened your new practice, which we’ll get into that too, but tell me how this kind of snowballed into. You have a very big following on social media and you said your practice really revolves a lot around that. 0:03:48 – Kyle RichmondYeah, so I graduate in October of 21 from chiropractic school and I had an Instagram account that I just used to post like my crossbow workouts, family stuff, whatever it was. And then, as I’m getting towards the end of school, I’ve still not used it. I’m thinking, like I see people on there, I don’t think it’ll be that valuable. Whatever I graduate and over that year I start posting something. So, yeah, I worked for it was like, hey, you should post some things. You know. Really, the best way to show, or the best thing about it, was to show hey, yes, I’m a chiropractor and everyone has the predisposition of like I know what a chiropractor is. Yeah, been there, done that. I’m like well, I do things differently. Let me post and kind of show that. I post it for like a year on and off of, like maybe once or twice a week, whatever I have family stuff, my dog, gym, mobility, you name it. October 22 comes around. I’m like All right, I saw this challenge post the reel every single day for the whole month. I’ll try. Um, learned a lot that month, got really efficient at it how to post, when to post, do all these things. I still just continue to do that every day until mid February happens. I’m, we’re out to dare. I pick up my phone and there’s like 2000 misnotifications like this. I don’t ever get that. I get like 30 likes a day maybe, and that’s like a big deal. 0:04:53 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah. 0:04:54 – Kyle RichmondI had a reel that just started going viral and it started getting like hundreds of thousands of views and likes and my my follower counter from like 2000 to 10,000, like three days, oh my gosh. Oh, okay, I’m like this is this is really happening, like I saw the K after it and like this is this is crazy. Um, so I ran with it. I started doing more. I got people reaching out. I’m working with people virtually doing all these things. Um, fast forward to about June of 2023 and I have about 30,000 followers. I’m making money off social media in terms of like, ads and clients, all these things. Um, I was at the point where I was unhappy at my old job. I was ready to go on my own. Well, I was fortunate. I had an income that said, hey, if you go on your own, your overhead is all like you’re, you’re ready, you don’t have there’s almost no risk, which I know there’s risk going to get business, but that made it easy. And then everyone around here knew of me because of social media. Like you said, I said, people said man, I’ve seen your videos all over the place and now I’m following you or I come in as a patient, um, but that was really what kind of kickstarted things. And from there I’ve used it to meet incredible people, um, companies, all these things I can get into but it’s been nothing short of absolutely just amazing. 0:06:02 – Jeff PelizzaroThat’s awesome. So give us a little bit of your background. Even before Cairo school, like sports wise, would you? You know, did you play a bunch of sports? I know you, um, were in CrossFit and personal training and all of those things. So give us a little background on yourself. 0:06:17 – Kyle RichmondOkay. So growing up I played a little bit of everything, um, but gravitate towards soccer. Soccer was my everything from about early junior high through high school. I thought I was going to play in college. It was kind of always the goal. Um, I knew I wanted to be a chiropractor as early as like my freshman year of high school because I had an injury I separated my shoulder real bad playing soccer and it was a chiro PT mix that helped me rehab and I’m like, oh, this is awesome. So I knew I wanted to do that. I got towards the end of high school looking at colleges and I was like, well, I know, graduate school is very expensive, it’s very time consuming, and the team I was looking to play for is like, well, you can’t work or do anything, it’s just soccer. So I kind of, you know, I made the choice to give it up, um, but then I found CrossFit, which was a way to still be active and do stuff competitively. Um, I did CrossFit for 10 years all the way up through COVID. Um, I personal trained, did all these things and that’s where my love for fitness and exercise kind of blended with the chiropractic Cause I treat very similar to I hate to always say like more, like a PT, it’s not just coming to get adjusted, there’s. I do manual therapy, I love it time and place. But a lot of this stuff is, hey, exercise base. So if it wasn’t for CrossFit and personal training and learning how to coach people, I think, is also another huge skill that helped me as a chiropractor. You’re coaching people all day long, you’re not just sitting there, hey, how are you Crack, crack, crack, you know out the door. But so it was soccer and then CrossFit. Um, I’ve dabbled in other sports growing up and it’s funny, cause golf is not my sport. Uh, I am, I am so bad. It was hand-eye coordination stuff, like extension of the hand, baseball, hockey, golf. I just was uncoordinated. In that I’ve gotten better, but it’s still a long ways away. Do you play a little bit? Uh, not as of recently, well, when I was in graduate school, like I wanted, but it was like, do I buy groceries or do I go play golf? Yeah, right, it was. It was really like that’s what it was for a while. Um, I need two more. I’ve done just some indoor stuff here, but uh, that is on my list. I have the golf clubs in my garage from my dad, like that is the next big thing, now that I have a little more disposable income, in a sense, and a little more time. You know, owning a business you don’t have that much time when you start, but I have a little more now so it’s on my list. 0:08:24 – Jeff PelizzaroSo where you’re located, you’re Frankfurt, illinois, is that right? 0:08:27 – Kyle RichmondAnd so where is that in? 0:08:29 – Jeff Pelizzaroin relation to oh so Chicago. 0:08:32 – Kyle RichmondIt’s Southwest Chicago by about 30, 45 minutes, but I mean you are so close to everything, the city’s right there, all the North suburb, south suburbs, it’s just all meshed into one giant area probably similar to high state, probably outside of St Louis’s right. It’s just just city of hot city. 0:08:46 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, Okay. Well, we got plenty of friends in the Chicago area that can help you with that golf swing. Hey. I need it, trust me. 0:08:53 – Kyle RichmondI can hit it far. Do I know where it’s going? Nope. 0:08:57 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, I’m sure the swing speed isn’t an issue for you, it’s the. It’s the club face control, it’s getting that, getting that club on the ball. 0:09:03 – Kyle RichmondAll that? Yeah Well, cause, like, the best piece of advice I got was hey, let the club do the work for you, Cause I’m just going up there and just trying to just smash as hard as I can. You’re like you don’t need to do that. That helped me a ton, but I need I need some work. 0:09:15 – Jeff PelizzaroSo let’s talk a little bit about your practice kind of your mentality working with clients, because you mentioned, you’re not what people tend to think of when they think chiropractic. I think that’s really changing too. You actually just made a post recently about you know, should you go chiro or PT, and it was really like a you know end of the post was like no, it just depends on who you know, how that person treats you and what their philosophies are and everything so. But I really do think and I have a couple of great buddies, a lot of people that have been on the show here that are they’re not what you think of when you think chiropractic. I think the old school is yeah, come in, crack your neck, pop your back, but there’s so much to it. So when somebody comes in to see you, give us just an idea of what that might look like. 0:09:57 – Kyle RichmondOkay. So first I like to set the expectations, because either they’ve come in because they’ve heard a good referral that I’m different, or they’ll come in expecting chiropractic care, in a sense of like they just want the adjustment and go home. So I have to first sit down day one, take the entire history, kind of give them a little more of like what to expect in terms of treatment. Hey, like a lot of the education on it, I’m gonna send you home with some things and just make sure one were a good fit. I do get some people that aren’t happy with that because they do want to just get adjusted, go home, which can I do that sometimes. Sure, it’s not my favorite, it’s not what I wanted to show people, so they’ll come in, go through the history a lot of test exams, get baselines, get assessments, which they’re also like. This is new. I’m moving around doing things, maybe trying to elicit pain, seeing what happens if we do this, and by the end of it, they’ve been moving and doing things for almost an entire hour. But it’s a mix of exercise. It’s a mix of yeah, their soft tissue, manual therapy, adjustments, or usually later in treatment care. If I got some of the ridiculous fear, some sort of like referral based pain, I’m not even manipulating the spine half the time, it’s just showing them. You know, self education, what can you do outside of here? How can you get back to your fitness? How can you get you know people think they can’t go to the gym because they’re they have back pain, like, hey, you know this might be gone in a couple weeks, but let’s still get you doing things. And I think that is the most valuable thing of what I do is making sure they have the confidence and the tools to go and do things outside of here, because very few cases probably do require a ton of rest and a ton of like hey, let’s be careful. You know those are here and there, but a lot of it’s just self self management. Really, you know I want to see a handful of times I do get more of the maintenance based stuff, but then you know they come through my door three, four, five visits and then guess what? Now they’re referring for other people and they go hey, this is different, it’s a chiropractor I get people don’t even know I’m a chiropractor because I’m a little hesitant on it. You know my parents friends won’t come in here. It’s like, oh, your son’s chiropractor. 0:11:48 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah. 0:11:49 – Kyle RichmondI know what that is. My please no. 0:11:51 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, when somebody comes to to work with you, do you have some people that now just kind of come on a regular basis, more for almost kind of the training side of things, as opposed to you know not the the typical hey, come back, we got a cracky next week, but it’s it’s more like do you have clients that have been with you for a while. They’re really just coming in to get their training in. 0:12:11 – Kyle RichmondYes and more. Those are like my active people, right, they go to the gym every single day. They want to stay involved in what they’re doing and usually something comes up. My next visit, hey, I was doing shoulder press and I got this like just weird tightness in my shoulder. Awesome, let’s assess it, see maybe where you lack things, because, again, I’m not doing head to toe every single time. Someone comes in what their main can play as we focus on. But then people that do want to just have to be coached through things, hey, I know I lack in rotation my hip. Well, let’s keep working on that month over month and just keep improving it, because we know it’s going to take time. We know you’re always improving and, god, aches and pains happen all the time. And you know I do have more of the maintenance see based things and I think that’s something that’s really typical. Chiropractic is maintenance care. So people already see chiropractic go. I got to go for my monthly maintenance. I think it’s a blessing in the curse, sometimes obviously for business. You know you want to have your recurring, you know patience, but then again too, I don’t want them to become fully reliant. If they’re not getting value for me on that maintenance visit, then I don’t want them to feel like they have to come in. I’m very, you know, I really like to communicate that with people that you know you don’t have. You’re not forced to come in just because you’ve been under my care. It’s not a lifelong sentence, but if you find value, then we can make things work. 0:13:19 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, I know I have. So you know, I started out in the more the physical therapy world, the clinical world, and now I’m more on the fitness side. We’ll call it performance side, right, because it? Because the PT always blends in, but it I’m not doing traditional clinical PT where a doc refers them over. It’s more on the fitness side. But you know, some people they just want that accountability, like oh no, I have an appointment with Kyle at this time every week and they know that they’re they’re going to get it done and that’s. That’s their way of keeping themselves accountable, which is awesome and it doesn’t mean like I’m going in to get readjusted every single week to get everything back in balance, right. 0:13:54 – Kyle RichmondYeah, yeah. So hey, were you doing that stuff for your shoulder that we talked about three weeks ago? Like yeah, I know, dude, because I know I’m gonna come see you and I always think like they’re wasting their time and money. They’re like I don’t want to do that. So, yeah, the accountability. And that’s again going back to being a coach. Right, you are coaching these people, you’re holding them accountable, and that’s what a lot of people in fitness really want. 0:14:13 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah. So let’s talk a little bit about mobility, because it seems like you really hone in on a lot of mobility work in your posts. From you know, from what I’m seeing, and I have a feeling, you’re going to be able to give me a good definition of mobility versus flexibility, and you do a great job of saying like, hey, instead of doing this, which is what you know, this version of whatever, this is actually what mobility looks like. So what is the difference to you between mobility, flexibility, for our audience? And then we’ll dive a little deeper into that. 0:14:45 – Kyle RichmondYeah, that’s a great question. It’s funny because I’m known around here as, like, the mobility guy. You’re the guy who posts all the little stuff. At first I did it because it you know, yes, it’s a little flashy, there’s some things that not everyone needs to do, but it caught attention, it showed it was just something different. But I do like to preach that flexibility, mobility. Flexibility is like your passive range of motion, how far I can move you, how far you can maybe stretch into something. Mobility that’s the control part, the strength, the actual training stuff. Mobility work should be challenging. Like you should get sore, you should. There should be some strain and some effort. If you’re just sitting in a stretch, you know that we have to define the goals and I think that’s what I like to show people is you have to go. I’ve done mobility work and you see them over there with a banded distraction. They’re just kind of sitting in a stretch. I’m like, well, how about we do a lift off instead? And now you’ll see the change. So I preach a lot of mobility. I think it’s very scalable. I don’t think everyone has to do it. I think a lot of people can benefit from it. I think it’s a low level entry for even just exercise. I can have someone doing a hip car or a hip mobility piece that might be scared of even doing an RDL or a squat. Well, hey, let’s just start super low level basic stuff and then I can progress you to more fitness. So I think the scalability I can train athletes at the pro level to. My 90-year-old grandparents come in here and just need to learn how to move their leg. They don’t even know where the control is. So, yeah, there’s the big thing, that kind of discern, you know, flexibility and mobility for people. 0:16:05 – Jeff PelizzaroSo when we’re working on different joints, we’re working on the ability to control those joints. Really, that’s what it boils down to, right. How does that relate to increasing strength? Because, you know, when we go to the gym, obviously everybody wants to go do something where they’re going to get stronger. I want a deadlift, I want a squat, I want a split squat but doing some of the things that you’re showing, some of these smaller single joint related things, but working on how to control those, can really be a huge boost to your end-all strength. When it goes back to those exercises, right, agreed. 0:16:39 – Kyle RichmondYeah, you break down the parts I like to look at. Maybe somebody doesn’t have a great spot as like an eye test. Well, let’s look at where your hip moves. Let’s look how your ankle moves. Let’s look how maybe your low back moves. If we see big deficits in that or places that you can’t control or really use those muscles to the best of your ability, well, let’s break it down, gain the mobility in that tissue, get stronger there, and then we bring you back to that exercise. I think maybe a lot of people don’t understand that too, as they think they see the mobility and that’s all they ever have to do, that’s the only thing you can do. Well, no, let’s use it to get you back to where you need to. And guess what? The best thing now is the full range of motion squats, full range of motion, lunges, whatever that is. It doesn’t just mean the mobility is like the only thing. And I think a lot of people get surprised when they see my training and go well, you’re doing like bodybuilding and deadlifts and yeah, I show that I do mobility I integrate with all my training because I do like to do it, but it’s not the end-all be-all. So I like to really tell people that it’s not the only thing you have to do, but it helps. 0:17:35 – Jeff PelizzaroAnd that’s where, when people go to places like Instagram and they think that that’s their education, right, they’re going to see a lot of the things that people like you and I we put it out there because it’s important stuff and you mentioned this too. But some of it is to catch an eye. You know it’s not something that you make up just to make up, but some of it is things that you may not see a normal person that doesn’t have any background in fitness or mobility or Cairo or whatever and it gives different ideas on ways to work through those things. But, yeah, like it’s not that sexy to post a split squat every, you know, all the time, or a deadlift, so you got to do some of those things. For those of you listening Know that that’s not the only piece, right, you have to do the other big things, the other big rocks, but these are the things that you can do to help kind of maximize and increase your efficiency in those joints, in those tissues. So obviously you deal a lot in the world of injury too, right, and doing these types of exercises, especially when you’re working on some of the specific strength in the joints, that’s what’s really building some resiliency to right to help you prevent some of those injuries 100%. 0:18:49 – Kyle RichmondYeah, there’s two types of people that come to see me People that are in pain or people that know they need to work on something. Hey, I’m just really stiff in this joint. Like we can break that down, find a low hanging fruit, improve that, and if you have more stable, controlled, strong joints, the likelihood of injury is definitely reduced. Right, I like to say we can’t prevent injury. We can mitigate it, though. I can’t guarantee, just because you’ve been doing ankle mobility, you’re not going to spray your ankle, but that you know grade three sprain might only be a one or two then because you’ve gotten stronger there. So there is benefit in that. 0:19:21 – Jeff PelizzaroSo, as you’re working with different clients and you know you said you run with you run the gamut as far as who you end up working with, from professional athlete to, you know, those in their 80s, 90s. What are some of the things when you are helping somebody work through either an injury or let’s even kind of focus a little bit more on, maybe, mobility and gaining more control, what are some techniques that you can share with, just kind of, you know, the general public? Not something that needs real specific detail, but some techniques that are maybe something they haven’t heard of or they don’t really know or understand what the reason is that you’re doing them. 0:19:58 – Kyle RichmondOkay, so I love that because one thing you’ll see a lot of my page and maybe people have heard about this in terms of mobility is cars. Cars stand for controlled, articulate rotations. What it is is moving your joint to its maximum capacity in terms of range of motion. So it’s a full, it’s a joint circle in a sense. The reason I love that because you can take it from basic teaching someone how to move their joint, just learning where it is in space, to training it by loading it up, making it really difficult, taking out compensations. So a good example would be a hip. Most seniors or older adults lack rotation in their hip One. They don’t use it. We don’t train that very often, so it degrades a little quicker. I can start to one very basic, just learning how to rotate their hip. Now, the professional athlete that can move their hip phenomenal. Well, let’s make you stronger, better in that. Let’s wait it, let’s take out any low back compensation. So cars is like that, super scalable. It could be a very small range of motion, a larger range of motion, and I can be as nitpicky as I want, or hey, I just use it. You’re moving your body every day. It’s a low barrier to entry for exercise. I’m not going to tell someone go home and do RDLs every like every morning for your low back and hips, because as an 80 year old they go. I don’t know what that is, I don’t care. But if you show them just how to move their hip and rotation, they’re more likely to buy in on that, and then again you can scale it to being very difficult for some people. 0:21:18 – Jeff PelizzaroI love that, yeah, being able to, because we use cars a lot and in fact we here, at 18STRONG, we have what we call our EFDs are every F and days, and it’s mainly some cars I went through you know I’m FRC and functional range conditioning and so went through and so we implemented yeah, a lot of the cars just shoulders, necks, the scapular muscle, you know, are the scaps doing all those little things and doing them, the consistency of doing them to make such a big difference, especially for our population of golfers, where they’re constantly Well, most of them are probably sitting at a desk most of the week and then going out on a Saturday morning or Sunday or golf trip and they’re trying to play 18, 36 holes. And so speak to the importance of the consistency of getting your body moving and doing those things. And I love the fact that you said you can scale the cars and make them as hard as you want to. 0:22:07 – Kyle RichmondReally, yes, and I like to use the phrase like use it or lose it. A lot of people will be like hey, I have a hard time putting my coat on. Well, how often do you reach back behind you in the shoulder extension? They’re like maybe every time I put my coat on the winter but then six months go by and I haven’t put that on. Cars are a way to kind of maintain what you have. So for a lot of people who, as they’re aging, you can maintain your range of motion a lot simpler. But I ask people, how do you take your neck into a full range of motion extension, right? Almost nobody looks up like fully into cervical extension. You go, well, you wonder why you lose. Your body is going to start grading that and doesn’t want to. So cars are a way to maintain that range of motion. 0:22:48 – Jeff PelizzaroWhat are some of the most common injuries and issues that you’re seeing on a regular basis? 0:22:54 – Kyle RichmondWell, as a chiropractor, there’s a lot of back pain. I’ve been because, for whatever reason, like and I get it, people think spine, they go chiropractors. Yeah, people have to really tell them like, do you do ankle stuff? Like, of course I do? 0:23:05 – Jeff PelizzaroI hope that I make that apparent. 0:23:06 – Kyle RichmondBut low back pain. I think I’m seeing that even a lot more in the younger population and I don’t know if it’s because of postcode or just technology. In general, I have treated more 14 to 17 year olds with low back pain than I’ve ever probably seen before. Outside that, a lot of shoulders, a lot of hips from people being active. You do see it all. Maybe not as much hands and feet stuff, but the extremities low back pain, ridiculous, these down the arm. That’s very common for us. 0:23:38 – Jeff PelizzaroWhen you are looking at somebody’s back, are there some commonalities that you’re seeing? And actually, let’s talk about that 14 to 17 year old population, because you know many of us. We were all a 14 to 17 year old, but many of us have 14 to 17 year olds now. I’m thinking of my older son, and my daughter will soon be in that demographic too. What do you think? You mentioned technology. What are some of the things that you’re seeing that’s contributing to that back pain? Because, as you and I both know, typically when you have back pain, that doesn’t mean that you have a bad back. There’s something else, right? 0:24:10 – Kyle RichmondYeah, usually these kids are sitting in flexion, like excessive flexion or just sustained positions. All day long they sleep flex, which is no problem, right. But then we get up, we get ready for school, we’re sitting there for breakfast, we sit on the bus or in the car, we sit at our desk all day. We go back home. Most kids are now on their iPads or computers, even doing homework. For longer periods of time they’re sitting. If they’re not in extracurricular activities, which I do see a lot of, then they’re sitting even more. Sitting isn’t bad. It’s not moving your spine as the issue. So I see a lot of people who are, you know, flexion intolerant. As kids and I remember being that age and you were going outside, you were doing things, You’re in every single sport you weren’t sitting on your phone when you were bored, you were going around the house and doing things or playing games. Now there’s no reason They’ll just sit there for hours and hours on end and I see that even to my adults, all the desk workers there’s a lot of similarities. It’s sitting and it’s an unfortunate thing. 0:25:05 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, unfortunately, again, I’m picturing my two kids and you know those games the Fortnite, the you know watching the silly little videos and it is. It’s a shame that it’s not as normal for them to just go out and play. They have more structured times, like to go to practice, and you know the different structured activities where it’s run by adults, but there’s so much less just going out and goofing around and climbing trees and you know we played roller hockey day in and day out and everything, yeah, everything. And I think that, as much as we specialize in these different sports and, yeah, these kids are getting more narrowed focus and the coaching is getting better in those sports, but I really think that they’re missing out a lot of that athleticism and just overall human function by just going down one rabbit hole. 0:25:55 – Kyle RichmondI agree. I see that with it’s getting really bad in baseball, baseball, softball. These kids are all year round one sport, 100 miles an hour in that direction, and you want them to get exposed to different things. Guess what, if you’re not doing a lot of rotation, you’re not doing a lot of extension, whatever it is in that joint, you’re going to lose your. It becomes sensitive to that pain or that range of motion and you know, yes, I did a lot of just soccer and looking back, I wish I did other things. I wish I stayed more in basketball. I wish I did that I think. Correct me if I’m wrong. But the Super Bowl, I think it was like maybe last year or two years ago they said, hey, high percentage of these guys in the Super Bowl played multiple sports in high school and college. Well, that’s super important. And I think that now you get the coaches at the high school and college level that almost demonize it if you’re not full time. I wasn’t allowed to kick a football in high school because you need to only play soccer. You weren’t allowed to do that, even though it would have been probably for college. Great, if you got good at kicking, you could open up a lot more doors that way, but they’re just getting more narrow minded in terms of sports. 0:26:52 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, I mean the best athlete, the best soccer player I ever played with, because soccer is my sport as well Taylor Taylor Twelman, if you know who that is, was on my high school soccer team and, yeah, then went on to be the leading scorer in the MLS, played over in Germany, but I just I was. St Louis has this cool thing at the History Museum right now. It’s a. It’s a display all about St Louis soccer history, and so I was reading a little background on Taylor that I didn’t know. But he was offered, I believe, a full ride to play baseball and was invited to try out for I forget what professional baseball organization, but turned it down to go play collegiate soccer. And it’s like here’s a guy you know that played at the highest of levels and, yeah, he was going through both sports, all through high school or all through grade school, all through high school and you golfer wise, some of the best golfers out there, some of them the most powerful golfers, were all multiple sport athletes. It’s just kind of crazy that everything has become so specialized. 0:27:53 – Kyle RichmondEven you see it in fitness too. Right, people are only doing bodybuilding, they’re only doing powerlifting. What we see over time is, if you don’t diversify your training, you run into more injuries, long term health issues, like I see. Power lifters are another one I treat a lot right Squat, bench, deadlift, some accessory but they are moving so just in a sagittal plane all day long. There’s no rotational capacity, there’s not that stuff, and we see them degrade a lot quicker. So it’s, it’s just that hyper specificity. There’s a time and place for it, but like you sound athletes, like there’s a lot of these guys with Patrick Mahomes baseball, football, like he was great, he was great at both. A lot of these guys can go to multiple sports. You can you ever see it? They drop football players and they can. They can shoot a basketball better than 90% of people and they don’t play basketball. But they’re just great athletes. They’re great movers. 0:28:35 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, it’s funny. A lot of those guys cannot swing a golf club, though, which is which I find very interesting. You watch some of the NBA guys. Steph Curry is in it, definitely an exception. He’s a very good golfer, but if you’ve ever seen LeBron swing a golf club, it’s it’s worse than. Charles Barkley, I think. 0:28:54 – Kyle RichmondIt’s funny, I never even thought of that. 0:28:56 – Jeff PelizzaroOkay, yeah, so have you worked with many golfers in your clinic at all. I mean, do you have any? 0:29:02 – Kyle Richmondcome through A lot of just you know your day to day, your office workers that love to golf, and a lot of them, you know I see a lot with neck issues. They can’t rotate their neck very well and they go in there. Here they go and they go through it and they end up getting the huge spasms or low backs too, because they can’t even control their lumbar spine and not just rotation but flexion extension. I see a lot of that and that’s more of your maintenance. He kind of people like, hey, you want to go golf, make sure you’re still doing these things because you might feel great. But guess what, you go out there, play 18 holes. You haven’t played a while and things are going to light up on you. So golfing is. I do treat a lot of golfers. 0:29:39 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah. So so that population right there, I think, is really, aside from a lot of the golf fitness professionals that listen to the show, I think the population you’re talking about is really who’s listening to the show too. You know a lot of guys that are my age mid forties, you know, maybe late thirties to mid fifties. They are now like really diving into. I want to play more golf. I’ve got family stuff I’ve. You know I’m limited for time, so you mentioned a couple like the neck, the low back. What are a couple things? If a, if a golfer comes in to you, what are a couple things that you look at and say like, hey, these are the big rocks that we need to kind of look at, because I know you’re going to be swinging a club and rotating and doing all these different activities. 0:30:20 – Kyle RichmondSo I always go full assessment spine, cervical, thoracic lumbar. The biggest thing with cervical is make sure they have rotation more than anything, because they’re spotting that ball. They’re not just moving their whole upper back with everything as they go, they’re keeping that there and they have to be able to look over their shoulders. So I’ll ask these guys hey, can you look over their shoulder? They’re like that’s about it. And then you expect them to take all their force and rotate as hard as they can. Lumbar spine too, in terms of a lot of them are stuck in extension, like they’re super hyper extended, and then good luck trying to rotate the lumbar spine as you’re jammed into extension. So we work on being able to flex the lumbar spine, work on just the breeding to calm down some stuff, learn maybe some better stabilization strategies, and then thoracic spine is in there too, usually just mobilizing them into extension. Most of them are so stiff from their desk jobs that you can’t even rotate because they don’t even, they can’t flex or extend it. It is like a block of wood just between cervical lumbar. So it really is full spine for a majority of them. 0:31:16 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, the rotation component is it’s such a big deal in golf, right, but when your body’s not moving properly, your back is naturally going to rotate in the wrong spot. So what are some of the things that you help them do with the thoracic spine? Because really you mentioned getting more extension. If the thoracic spine so for those of you listening, you know basically your rib cage, the area of your rib cage but on the backside of your body if that can’t extend backwards a little bit, it definitely it can’t rotate well too, right? So are there any little tips or drills that you could kind of talk through? I know it’s hard to do on a, on a podcast, but a couple of things that they could think about doing on either daily basis, weekly basis, just for some of that maintenance piece. 0:32:03 – Kyle RichmondYeah, I think a big one is sprinkling that in throughout their day. A lot of them who are desk workers. I typically have them do some sort of thoracic extension at their desk. I take them hey, put your hands behind your neck, bring your elbows in front a little bit and lean back over that chair into extension. Let’s do maybe a set of 10 every couple hours throughout your day to help loosen that. So we know we need just more time in that position because a lot of them will just get to the course or I’ll even have them take their golf club behind them and get a little extension there by say, hey, if you can sprinkle it in throughout your day when you’re sitting there, that’s going to help, I think, more than anything to get ahead of that. We do some cervical extension stuff too, but I think just sprinkling it and making that more of a movement habit, because they’re just sitting in so much kyphosis all day long, which is not a bad thing, which is now you’re limiting yourself into extension and then guess what, they borrow somewhere else to get there. 0:32:51 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, let’s take a second to thank our sponsors over at 1st Phorm, and this week I want to highlight their Formula One post workout protein shake. I use this thing pretty much every day after my workouts because, let’s face it, being here in the gym working all the time with clients putting on a podcast, it can sometimes be tough to get my protein in on a regular basis, and so I know that with the post workout shake the Formula One first of all, it’s fast acting. So right after your workout is a great time to get your protein in to help build your muscles, get yourself stronger and repair what you’ve done in the gym. But also, if you don’t know if you’re going to be able to get your protein in in your regular meals, it’s just a great way to make sure that you’re supplementing and hitting those marks. So be sure to go over to 1stPhorm.com forward slash 18STRONG to get your 1st Phorm Formula One protein shake, and everyone that enters through that link is going to be put into a drawing every single month for free 1st Phorm products. So, again, go over to 1stPhorm.com forward slash 18STRONG. Let’s talk the hips a little bit, because that’s another big piece that I find can be just kind of rock solid and hard for people to work through. So, hip wise, how important are those for the golf swing? 0:34:08 – Kyle RichmondYour interpretation on your hip is maybe one of the most important, especially rotating the pelvis in relationship to the hip right. A lot of them can move femur on pelvis the other way around. It’s really difficult. So I’ll put them in a lot of like block positions. Hey, can you keep this block here against the wall? Will you open up your hips Just seeing how they can move? But I do start with just looking at the hip joint in general, external to rotation, seeing where can they actually passively get there, so flexibility, and then can they actually move there. And then I just haven’t break down their swing, like let’s just go watch you swing and see where you’re super limited on. And there’s a bunch of tests on that. But I think the hip internal rotation gets missed a lot. Obviously, external still important. Having a hip that rotates is very important, but I think the pelvis on top of the femur is one of the most important. 0:34:54 – Jeff PelizzaroThat’s a good point, because we do tend to see people doing internal rotation drills where they are so moving the foot, moving the leg, and the pelvis is staying stable, but you’re saying, you know, almost fix the leg and then move the pelvis on top of that, which is really how you’re moving when you’re in the golf swing. 0:35:14 – Kyle RichmondRight, and then you can actually give them a. Hey, can you control your lumbar spine on top of this? Because usually you lock in the lumbar spine or anything else and then you just move the foot. Well, yeah, the femur is where we’re getting rotation, but it almost isn’t the same. Well, it’s not. It’s not the same rotation you are when you’re in a golf swing. You’re moving everything else relatively because your feet are still staying there and you’re moving everything on top of it. So I like to give them both. 0:35:35 – Jeff PelizzaroSo you talked a little bit about the cars earlier. I would also assume that you and I know this because I’ve seen on your page you do a lot of what’s called pales and rails and some of those different you know, kind of FRC related kind of movements and techniques, what is going on when you’re doing, and if you could explain kind of pales and rails and layman’s terms, what’s going on when you’re doing those and why are those so important as opposed to just the cars which you were talking about before? 0:36:05 – Kyle RichmondRight, so that’s a phenomenal question. So cars I think of as a way to maintain your range of motion or at least like a little check to see how you’re feeling and how you’re moving. We don’t use cars to gain more range of motion, right? We have to have some sort of really more aggressive or maximum contraction strength effort to gain range of motion. Okay, so that’s why it’s important. So a pales and rails it’s a way to do isometrics and you can get more control on that range of motion. And you can get more control on that range of motion and get stronger. You can produce force in those motions. I don’t show a lot of them. One they’re usually really boring to post because you’re just sitting in a position. They don’t understand it and it’s really hard to explain that in a quick eight second reel. I usually like to explain those more. One along with people. I use them a lot in my own videos. I use them a lot in my own videos. I use them a lot in my own practice for people. It’s a great an. Isometrics is a great way to just start reducing pain and gaining range of motion. But you have to do those to gain active range of motion and control more space, cars maintenance. So you have to separate those and then you know we can go and hold the pain levels and all that stuff. But that’s the best way to kind of discern those. 0:37:19 – Jeff PelizzaroCan you take it, take a joint and give us an example of what it would look like to do a pale versus a rail. 0:37:26 – Kyle RichmondOkay. So I think a very easy one to do is the shoulder joint. I think a lot of people understand if you’re in extra rotation so you’re trying to bring your wrist back behind your shoulder. I usually put people on the ground. They may have a block under their wrist and they’re trying to push that hand down into the block for the pales and then they’re trying to pull that away for the rails. So they’ll feel all the anterior stuff and stuff in the front of the shoulder work on that first contraction and we’re trying to pull that away. They’ll feel the backside of their shoulder pull themselves in extra rotation and they’ll notice how much harder it is. One, they probably can’t move there. Two, they’ll cramp up like no other and then they’ll just get a lot more range of motion. The hip is a little hard to explain if people understand like 90-90, but I think that’s always an easy one for people to understand. 0:38:06 – Jeff PelizzaroNo, that’s a great one. So for those of you listening, basically like your hands up in a pitcher’s position, like you’ve got the ball getting ready to throw but you’re lying on your belly and then you’re trying to keep your elbow on the ground or might be elevated a little bit, but then you’re trying to lift your hand so it’s going up towards the ceiling. So when you’re doing the pushing into the block, why is that part important too? 0:38:28 – Kyle RichmondSo that’s the tissue that is lengthening. We have to also make sure that can contract in that range of motion. We don’t want useless I hate to say useless, but range of motion. Let’s go back a second. Yeah, the rule specificity says if you do something passive you will get passive results. If you do something active, you’ll get active results. That’s why if you’re just stretching, you won’t get stronger there. So if I just put you in a oh, you need more shoulder rotation, I just get you to stretch all day, well, you haven’t gotten stronger there. So if you still go and take that baseball as hard as you can, bring it back and throw it, you’re not stronger there. Nobody would believe that sitting in the bottom of a squat would make them stronger at their back. Squat right, you have to train that with strength. It’s the same idea with anything else. That’s why you could see I took the internal strength model with FRC. They’re blending strength training principles with mobility. They’re not just two. You know exclusive things. They all melt together and that’s why it’s so important to know that with rehab is you have to challenge and really give people something to work on and get stronger to see the results they’re looking for If I want to just give them a stretch, go do some yoga, go stretch all day, but you’re going to get a lot different results than what you want. 0:39:32 – Jeff PelizzaroThat’s such an important part and I’m so glad you went there, because any most golfers are looking for. I need more rotation. I need more rotation. Give me a rotation stretch. Give me something that’s going to make my back swing bigger. But what you just said is so crucial that you could stretch all day long and you could get yourself to be like Gumby. But if you don’t then build strength with some resistance in those new ranges, you’re almost putting yourself at risk for injury, right? 100%, 100%, yeah. So being able to find those positions and I highly recommend you guys go check out Kyle’s post, because he does a good job of showing many of these where you’re putting yourself in a position and then you’re creating force, you’re putting tension and stress through whatever that joint is, whatever tissue that is because that’s then going to build that strength in that new range of motion that you just gained. So stretching is great, but if you’re just stretching to stretch, like you said, you’re not really going to get the benefit. Ultimately, you want to be stronger in that range of motion. 0:40:33 – Kyle RichmondYeah, and that’s really important. People think mobility work like it should be challenging. You shouldn’t want to do a ton of it. If you’re doing an hour worth of mobility, you’re probably not doing it with the right intent. I coach a class over here on Thursdays and it’s a mobility-based class and I was like, oh, we’re going to do stretching. I’ve got them doing lift-offs at the point where their hips are cramping and they’re struggling. You know people get very like I’ll give them mobility programs right. Like there’s only three or four things in here to do that day I go. If you do those the right way, you shouldn’t want to do more. You’re going to get like no one’s going to go to the gym so you need to do 100 sets of back squat, do three or four sets, put a lot of effort and time behind it. You’re going to get stronger. Mobility shouldn’t just be a thing. I got to stretch for 45 minutes. I’m going to go and do my PVC pass throughs, nice and easy. It really should be challenging. It should make you sore, it should make you tired and that’s how you see the change that’s going to last. 0:41:17 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, I would venture to say that a true mobility program like you’re talking about could be the most brutal thing that a person could go through, because they don’t expect it to be hard, right? My clients know, like if I grab just a little bit like a one-pound weight, they’re like, oh shit, something bad’s coming. You know, like this is going to be hard If I don’t grab anything. You know you put them in a postural position and they have to hold it like you’re talking about. Those are the things that can be like super, super frustrating because they’re so hard and they don’t seem like they should be and sometimes they have that neural component where your body’s not really connecting with what’s going on, they steer at it. 0:41:56 – Kyle RichmondThey’re like I had a guy who, if he could squat 500 pounds, he can’t pick his foot up off the ground and hip interrotation to save his life and he’s just steering at it. Yeah, I’m all the way down to his side. He’s like a half inch off the ground. You’re like, wow, okay, so there’s something you can work on it. And again you could find a low hanging fruit and find untrained tissue. We know something that’s untrained progresses very quickly and can get stronger very fast, and then you can just make the whole system better. 0:42:20 – Jeff PelizzaroTalk a little bit about the neural connection of our bodies. Sometimes are protecting ourselves right, so like keeping us from going into positions that we shouldn’t be in, even though we’re trying to. But the brain is sometimes that circuit. Can you explain that a little bit? And how do we almost bypass that circuit? Are there ways that you’ve found to kind of get past that? 0:42:43 – Kyle RichmondYeah, so the biggest thing if you’re trying to gain range of motion and your body is guarding it right you people who say I’ve really tight groin or hamstrings typically it’s guarding something Well, instead of saying we’re going to stretch as aggressively as we can, I get them in a position or stretch where it’s maybe a four out of 10 intensity, something they can breathe and relax into, right, you have to have control in terms of your own nervous system. If you’re fighting that thing and like, oh, I’m stretching, but it’s an eight out of 10 and I can’t even bear to be here, well then you’re just reinforcing that negative stabilization strategy from that muscle. So, get them in something they can relax into. And then we start adding in those isometrics, because now we’re teaching the brain to actually use that in terms of its own control and you can start ramping that intensity. But that’s where pales come in as like one of my greatest rehab tools, because I can start putting them in positions that feel more safe to the body. They can get stronger in there and then the brain lets them have that. A lot of people can relate where they say I stretch my hamstrings every day, I come back and they’re still just as tight. Well, maybe you’re not making the change or you’re making a quick change. We can trick the nervous system temporarily. But then my goal with my patients they should come in every single time and feel like their cold range of motion is better. You can leave my office after a half hour and my hip moves great now. But if every single morning you wake up and your hip can’t move, we’ve missed the mark on that. I want to gain that and keep that, because you should be able to go into the gym and I have to do 60 minutes of mobility or to get into your squat. It should be maybe a few things you just want to work on. 0:44:06 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, that’s where that consistency comes in so much because somebody could go see you and this is really so the traditional model of just straight up manual therapy. You know, somebody can go get manual therapy and then get sent out the door, not be given any kind of an exercise, not be given anything that they’re going to then strengthen, and they come back and they’re like well, it’s tight again. It’s like well, yeah, no, kitten, it’s tight. We loosened it up because literally, heated up the tissue, moved it around a little bit, I stretched you out and then I sent you on your way and so, yeah, moved well for an hour and but then the next day nothing’s changed. 0:44:42 – Kyle RichmondThose are my favorite posts. A lot of clinicians do. They go oh, look at their solar reflection. We started and here they are when they left. But then, like I want to see what happens when they came back three days later were they right back to it? Because, yeah, you can get more range of motion temporarily, but we got to be able to keep that and that’s why I tell people you’re going to do this exercise when you leave here a few times a day or whatever every other day, whatever it might be to help progress you. So when you come back in, we’re not doing the same song and dance. If I’m doing the exact same treatment every single time, then I’m not doing my job or you’re not doing your job. Someone’s at fault here. 0:45:13 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, have you ever seen that video that Dr Spina did and it was kind of showing like that snake oil salesman kind of stuff, where he’s like hey, look, I know exactly which one. Yes, here’s a guy, here’s the high, on a table stretching out a hand, you know, you know lifting the leg up, stretching the hamstring look how tidy he is and then bring him down and I forget what he does. 0:45:33 – Kyle RichmondHe like, he like rubbed his shoulder or something he’s like oh, here you go. 0:45:36 – Jeff PelizzaroAnd then smacks him on the face, he’s like I could literally do anything here, and the second time I lift your leg it’s going to go further. So if you have a clinician that says, oh look, look, how much better you’re moving after that Sometimes that’s for show, sometimes it’s to get people to buy in, and you know so they can’t. So then it’s like, oh wow, that really does work. But just know that that’s not fixed right. 0:46:01 – Kyle RichmondRight and that’s why, like as a chiropractor, I use manipulation for a lot of my golfers. I’ll manipulate their T spine and then say, hey, now let’s go move that and strengthen it. Get you, because we just opened up new range of motion temporarily. You’ve got some more stuff to work with here. Let’s go and use that and hopefully try to keep some of that gets stronger there. And you know, that’s why you can do stretching or soft tissue. I have a massage gun, I have copying and taping all these things that do have benefit as long as you’re still doing the active stuff on top of that. And that’s where I fell in love with FRC. Because I was a kid sitting in chiropractic school trimester two, going like I might drop out. This is just all work justing everything. This doesn’t make any sense to me. So I attached myself to that during COVID and then I was like I have now a little bit of a basis to go over because they don’t teach really any exercise. They don’t teach that stuff. I had the training background. It helped, but most clinicians just go. I know how to get you out of pain temporarily, but how to keep it there I don’t know. 0:46:52 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, which is a very it’s an extremely valuable skill, right, like that’s what most people are coming for Help me get out of pain. Then it’s taking that next, taking the next step, to then help them get onto that path of keeping it where it is moving forward, getting better, getting stronger Awesome, can you. Can you explain to me cupping? So I don’t really know that much about cupping. What is the mechanism that that you’re looking to get? What’s it? What’s it good for? What does it help people with? 0:47:22 – Kyle RichmondOkay. So I think a lot of people think it’s breaking up like fashion all the soft tissue stuff. Do I think that’s the case and does literature support that? Probably not, do I think it’s great to help reduce pain temporarily, gain some more range of motion. It feels good. I think that’s the end of the day. If it feels good, it’s going to help them just get some movement in whatever area. Awesome. Is it going to bring down inflammation? No, because we’re probably increasing inflammation. I don’t use it a lot. There’s very few cases. I try not to promote a lot of that because I’d rather just do a quick massage done. Maybe the voodoo floss like quick stuff. Okay, let’s get moving again. Or if I have you like. That’s why I will not be the person doing dry kneeling or acupuncture. I think there is benefit, but I think it’s going to slow down my process. I have to put these needles in you for 15 minutes Now. You got to wait. I think there’s a time and place. Maybe some people use it more. I’m not usually big on all that stuff, gotcha. 0:48:09 – Jeff PelizzaroOkay, good, Because that’s kind of where my mentality was and I just wanted to understand a little bit more about it. All right, so now that the clinic’s open, rebuilt, is there a background behind the name or just cool name? 0:48:21 – Kyle RichmondYou know it was a cool name, but I’m sitting there and it was like, hey, it’s June and I want to open this thing up as soon as I can. I was like I got to start. I was just on Google every day like looking for words that sounded cool. I’m said to people what do you think about this? I was very adamant it was rebuilt strength and rehab because I wanted not to say chiropractic. I think I already would pigeonhole myself because people are still like oh, you’re a chiropractor. I didn’t know that, because strength is super important. I think a lot of doctors are even telling their patients that you need to get stronger here, you need to be stronger as you age. So it doesn’t just say it’s just for younger people, it’s for everybody. I’m going to rehab showing it. Yes, it’s not just a strength training gym, but there wasn’t anything super significant, even the colors. It’s like a blue, like this. I was at the high school soccer team. We had camp that day and my coach played for one of the coaches played for University of Rhode Island and he gave us these shirts that had that color. He’s like oh my God, I want that for my clinic. So that’s what we did the next day I was. It was really quick, but I love the name. 0:49:16 – Jeff PelizzaroI love the name and the colors are good. I’ll have you know, I was doing my research on you and my 10 year olds like ooh, I like how his letters are, like those lines, like that, so your logo looks good, yeah, so I appreciate that. 0:49:29 – Kyle RichmondI was on a website looking at things. I’m like, oh, I like this. I need someone to design that for me because I didn’t own what that was, but I was. I mean, I was on that. I was online like three, four hours a day just looking at things trying to figure this out. No, I’m happy at how it all turned out. 0:49:42 – Jeff PelizzaroVery cool. All right, my friend, before we close up, I got some questions that I got to ask you, that we ask everybody that comes on the show. I know you’re not a big golfer so some of these might not totally apply, but I think you could probably hand them Caddy Shack or Happy Gilmore. 0:49:58 – Kyle RichmondLots of Happy Gilmore. It’s all in the hips. 0:50:00 – Jeff PelizzaroI love that. If you could pick a walk-up song to the first T-Box when you’re playing a little golf, what’s your walk-up song going to be? 0:50:09 – Kyle RichmondOoh, all right, I’m a big like low weight guy from all those things, probably a belly. I love that one that just gets me hyped up. 0:50:19 – Jeff PelizzaroExcellent, all right, is there a book that you tend to like to recommend to people, or a book that’s really meant a lot to you over the years and maybe you’ve read a couple times or given out as gifts? It doesn’t have to be anything related to fitness, cairo, whatever, just something that means a lot. 0:50:33 – Kyle RichmondSo at first I would always recommend Atomic Habits For most people. I loved it. One recently, though, that I almost value even more is called the Dip. Caddy really talks about when to keep going, when to not keep going, when are you just driving to something that’s really not worth your time? And I find that very valid with what I’m doing, Because there’s certain paths I’m going down, it’s like hey, don’t continue, Keep doing that. Maybe you’re wasting your time. Quit the thing that won’t get you a lot right now to put effort in the thing that’s going to get you a lot more over time. So I found that super valuable. And again, books like that can go to any sort of field, any sort of lifestyle. A lot of people resonate with that. 0:51:08 – Jeff PelizzaroExcellent If you could pick a celebrity foresum to go play golf with. Who’s going to be in your celebrity foresum Could be past or present people, a debtor life. 0:51:18 – Kyle RichmondOh, you know I’m already from soccer. I love Ronaldo, messi. Those are the ones too. I would just love to see how they interact, and I think that’s a different soccer. We don’t see a lot of their personality as much as we do with professional football and basketball. You see these guys all the time. I feel like we don’t know who a lot of these guys are, especially with the language barrier. But if you had to pick four I don’t know, those are my two, though, for right now I think that would just be incredible. 0:51:43 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, that would be interesting to see how those two work together on the golf course too. 0:51:47 – Kyle RichmondI’d just love to see it because we know how it is on the pitch. It’s just so. They’re friendly, but you know they see it. 0:51:52 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, All right, if you could pick any place in the world. We’ve got the 18STRONG jet fueled up, ready to roll. You get to play golf at any place in the world. Where are we taking you? I honestly somewhere war, Somewhere war after being this ex-poker like a true Chicago guy. 0:52:11 – Kyle RichmondAnd it’s literally all I want right now. It’s all I could think about. I’ve never really played golf anywhere outside of the Midwest, so I would love to even just Arizona or Florida, whatever it is Somewhere warm and be able to see something actually look nice. Dude, you’re out here. The greenery is not really there until maybe two weeks out of the year. It’s really nice, but I know it’s not the answer I was hoping for, but just somewhere warm. 0:52:33 – Jeff PelizzaroThat’s right, somewhere warm. I like it. What’s, given the fact that you have done really well with your social media account? You’ve got a ton of followers. What’s an account that you like to follow, that you’d like to share with our audience? And again, it doesn’t have to be fitness related at all. 0:52:49 – Kyle RichmondGot to show us this guy named Brock. He’s got like 600-something thousand followers. I can look up the exacting later. He’s the one that really taught me how to use social media and kind of ins and outs. Gives me some things to do, not to do. He’s the one that made me do that 30 day not made me, but told me to do this 30 day challenge and got me being consistent, got me comfortable being front of camera. So I kind of like that. If you’re looking to grow your social media, that was my favorite one Because there’s all these people that can give you all sorts of great fitness advice. Like I want to know how to grow this, and he was the number one. 0:53:18 – Jeff PelizzaroOK, cool. I know that a lot of the fitness professionals that are listening and watching this will want to know that. So, guys, we’ll make sure that we link up that in the show notes. I want that. 0:53:28 – Kyle RichmondWe’ll get that on there for sure. I’ll tell you. 0:53:30 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah for sure. And then last thing well, I’m going to ask two versions of this what’s the best piece of golf advice you’ve ever been given? That’s going to be the first one. And then I’m going to say what’s the best piece of personal fitness advice that you’ve ever been given. 0:53:46 – Kyle RichmondOK, golf I kind of knew this earlier is let the club do the work. I was the guy who was just trying to go up there and hit as hard as I could, no matter what, realizing like you don’t have to absolutely hit it as hard as you can. The club will do a lot of it for you, especially when you’re driving it Fitness-wise, oh boy. I think the biggest thing is that intensity is the driver of most things. You have to have intent behind what you’re doing, and this goes for anything mobility, strength, flexibility. Have a reason for what you’re doing, and I think that can go to any sport, any type of fitness. I think that’s really important. 0:54:20 – Jeff PelizzaroAwesome. Well, kyle, this was super fun. Great to finally meet you, and thanks for taking the time to come on. We really love what you’re doing. We’re going to keep reposting your stuff, for sure, and just keep going. That means the world. Congrats with the new facility, with Rebuilt, and good luck to you. 0:54:36 – Kyle RichmondI appreciate it, Jeff. Thank you. 0:54:40 – Jeff PelizzaroThanks for listening to the 18STRONG Podcast and if you found this episode helpful, don’t forget to share it with your friends. And, of course, go follow us over on Instagram at 18strong. Thanks again. We’ll catch up with you next week. Stay great hard, practice smart and play better golf.

Guest: Jeff Flagg (2014 World Long Drive Champ, Founder of Flagg Performance)Host: Jeff PelizzaroEpisode Number: 365Podcast: The 18STRONG PodcastPartners: Linksoul, 1stPhorm Summary Unlock the secrets to enhancing your golf game with the wisdom of Jeff Flagg, the 2014 World Long Drive Champion, as we traverse the significance of rotational strength and athleticism on the fairway. Our conversation is not just a swing analysis; it’s a full-fledged exploration of how to invigorate your game, regardless of whether you’re in your prime or enjoying the sport’s golden years. We tap into Jeff’s expertise in functional training, using tools like PurMotion, to fortify your strength, mobility, and ultimately, your performance. This week’s episode is a treasure trove of insights for the discerning golfer who recognizes that power drives are just the beginning. Jeff and I pull back the curtain on the nuanced interplay between sport-specific exercises and our body’s mechanics, challenging the status quo of traditional workouts. We share stories from both the tee and the gym, illustrating the importance of a comprehensive training regimen that acknowledges the unique demands of golf – from honing rotational movements to fostering endurance for those challenging back nine holes. Finally, we chart Jeff’s inspiring journey from baseball to the links and how a philosophy rooted in functional movement revolutionized his approach to fitness. Our discussion underscores the need for tailored training that respects the intricacies of different sports, advocating a holistic strategy for strength and injury prevention. So, whether you’re aiming to lower your handicap or simply wish to infuse your lifestyle with vigor, this episode is your caddy to a more athletic and assured presence on the green. Join us as we help you shape not just your game, but an energetic and enriching life beyond the course. Main Topics (00:03) Building Athleticism in Golf World Long Drive Champion Jeff Flagg discusses rotation in the gym, social media engagement, and embracing individual perspectives in fitness and nutrition. (12:16) The Importance of Rotation in Golf Rotation is crucial in golf, impacting mechanics and endurance. Physical deficiencies can be exposed, requiring more rotational exercises in training. (14:59) Rotational Strength for Athletes Rotational strength is crucial in sports like golf, and sport-specific training with dynamic movements can prevent injury and enhance performance. (25:11) Transition to Exercise Education and Driving A former baseball player found a new passion in golf after studying philosophy, working with a swing coach, and seeking functional movement training. (28:36) Building a Rotational Athlete Nature’s interconnectedness in sports training, emphasizes rotational exercises, fascia’s role, and individualized approaches for injury prevention and performance. (36:25) Gym Equipment and Protein Supplements Proper post-workout nutrition, innovative fitness equipment from PurMotion, and the benefits of ground-based tools for functional training. (49:35) Golf Training for Strength and Confidence Nature’s versatile fitness program for golfers of all ages and skill levels, using movement variety and alternatives like bands, to eliminate weak links and build confidence. (56:44) Favorite Golfing Moments and Advice Debating golf movies, walk-up songs, book recommendations, and dream celebrity foursome with generational talent. Follow Jeff Flagg Instagram: @jeff_flagg Links Mentioned It Takes What It Takes – Trevor Moawad Getting to Neutral – Trevor Moawad PurMotion Episode Partners: LINKSOUL: For your 20% discount on LINKSOUL gear, go to 18strong.com/linksoul or click the logo above. 1st Phorm: Try any of the 1st Phorm products with FREE SHIPPING, go to 1stphorm.com/18strong.com (By using this link, you will be entered into our Monthly 1st Phorm Giveaway!) More Cool Stuff to Check Out: To continue the conversation and ask any questions you may have, head over to the 18STRONG Movement group on Facebook. 18STRONG Pro Shop (Get your 18STRONG gear!) 18STRONG Resources (All of the cool stuff we recommend: products, books, golf stuff, etc – and discount codes for the 18STRONG Crew) Want the full episode transcript? (click the “+” ????????) 0:00:04 – Jeff PelizzaroThe 18STRONG Podcast, episode number 365 with Jeff Flagg from Flagg Performance. What’s up guys? Welcome back to the 18STRONG Podcast, where we’re here to help you build a stronger game, because we believe that every golfer deserves to play better, longer. This episode, we have a return guest from episode number 170, Jeff Flagg. Jeff was the 2014 World Long Drive Champ and is the founder of Flagg Performance. Jeff has been working with golfers on their fitness, on their game, for several years now, and we bring him back on the show to talk about building the athleticism in your game. And he’s actually here making the case for golfers rotating more in the gym and not just rotating more, but rotating better in the gym, utilizing some different pieces of equipment. Especially, we talk about the pure motion pieces of equipment that he used a lot in his training program that helps his golfers, whether they be teenage golfers or all the way up into their 80s, move better and hit different areas of the body, different angles, different forces, to make sure that they’re able to handle everything that the golf course could ever throw at them. So you’re going to really enjoy this episode with Jeff. Right after this, our partners over at Lynx hole have been providing us with the best apparel for both on the course and off the course, from polos to t-shirts like the one I have on right now. Everything that they have is meant to be worn from the golf course to wherever you’re going next, whether that be casual, whether that be to the beach there’s all different options over there. So you’ll get 18strong.com slash Linksoul. You’ll get 20% off of anything in your cart over on Linksoul’s website. So again, 18strong.com slash Linksoul for our favorite brand of apparel for anything on the golf course and off. Now let’s get to this week’s interview. What’s up? Yeah, man, thanks for doing this. This is cool, not too much. I was just kind of scrolling through your Instagram and realized, holy shit, he literally just kind of started posting that. 0:02:18 – Jeff FlaggI’m so bad. I’m so bad at it. 0:02:20 – Jeff PelizzaroI’m so bad at it. 0:02:25 – Jeff FlaggIt’s like provided me so many opportunities in the past and it’s like I just got to tell myself that like it matters and like I just post and like get in the rhythm of it. Yeah, so that’s my 2024 goal is to get on it, because it’s just like it’s just just where people find you. It’s just like it’s kind of dumb not to. 0:02:53 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, can I give you one suggestion on yours, because the black and white that you have of you just doing some exercises just do nothing but that like, keep it simple for yourself and that will look sick and people will. 0:03:10 – Jeff FlaggIt’ll come, just it’s fun, like people just the look of it feels cool and I’m sort of played with, like the you know you talk about, like the art and science, right, like and I sort of tend to lean towards the art side of it and like my dad’s artistic, and it’s like I looked up, like I just kind of like the look of black and white and it’s like you know what makes black and white phones different or whatever, and basically like the science or whatever says you know, it’s like your, your, your eyes drawn more towards the subject and not like crazy colors, and the other part of it is like our gym at Bears Club is the ugliest shade of yellow so it’s like that was the main reason, but. But it was like, yeah, it, and that’s kind of what I want to try to do is like like focus your eye on like what’s happening with the body and not like peripheral stuff. 0:04:08 – Jeff PelizzaroBut yeah, like I was just kind of scrolling through and looking, I’m like this just looks cool, plus, the movements that you’re doing are cool and eye catching. You know the pure motion stuff that you use. So I’m like, yeah, if he just does this and it’ll keep it really simple myself to just shoot those kind of videos. 0:04:24 – Jeff FlaggYeah, and it’s just like trying to take all the friction points out as much as possible because I’m a classic like over thinker, like all right. But you know I’m showing this, but it’s like somebody’s gonna say this and it’s like, and I know there’s nuance and it’s like in social media, it’s just not. It’s not a place for nuance. You just you post it and you’re falling across the room. 0:04:48 – Jeff PelizzaroWell, we just had Jeff Levecchio on recently and you said you’d listen to that episode and like talking to him, he’s like man, you just gotta you put it out there. You say what you know your audience is gonna need to hear in the way that they need to hear it. And, yeah, people are gonna chirp you. They’re gonna say, oh well, your glutes don’t actually activate that way, you don’t turn muscle, you know whatever. 0:05:07 – Jeff FlaggBut it’s like no, I’m talking to the people that need to hear this, need to understand it and everybody else just it brings up and it’s like everybody’s got you know everybody’s got their you know takes, getting older and stuff like that they realize like everybody’s got their own bias, like everybody does. It’s like you’re not gonna be completely gonna make everybody happy and it’s just like you know everybody’s got different experiences and and you know view points on things and lenses to look at things and it’s like to me that’s that’s unique and that’s like it’s not something to like go, oh, it’s right or wrong. I mean, you know our field is just shades of gray, you know, and it’s like there’s nothing established really much on any end of you know exercise, nutrition, like there’s so many factors. It’s like unique perspective I feel like is is, you know, that’s kind of yeah, that’s one man’s opinion. It’s kind of like how I see things this way and you know, thank you for what it’s worth. 0:06:07 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, it’s like anything any golf pro, any fitness professional you could ask somebody to create a program. You could ask ten different professionals to create a program and they could be the smartest people in the world. They’re all gonna do something different and they could all probably critique a little bit of what the other person, what the other trainer or coach or whatever, did it. That’s just, it’s our natural inclination. 0:06:26 – Jeff FlaggSo, yeah, for sure you’re doing it, you know, and that’s it’s funny, like just going through, you know, I’ve been primarily in person and then, like you know, kind of launching an online product here shortly, and it’s like all those things going through my head and it’s like, and obviously there’s like all the you know scientific justification and you know swing speed and injuries work around it’s like. But it’s also like the other day, it’s like we’re training. It’s like you know there’s obviously boxes we need to check, but another box that I feel like is important to check is like it’s gonna look cool, I think like I mean look at, look at look at any golf swing, you know pro golf swing, let’s say amateur, the pro golf swing, you know, in slow motion or a cool different angle, it’s like it looks cool, it’s like a cool athletic, coordinated, you know body, it’s just twisted up and it’s like it’s cool. Look at watch and it’s like eye catching and it’s like you know. Why don’t we bring a little bit of that into training, not only to prepare for what you’re trying to do, but also, like you just want to move cool, like you don’t want to walk around like a brick, you don’t want to walk around. Like you have the, you know, as we all get older, the old man shuffle. Like you know. It’s like you, you just, whatever you do, however, whatever your talent level is with golf, it’s like, at the end of the day, I think you want to move, you know walk in. And like you walk in, you know you carry yourself well, you move smoothly, it’s like you flow. You look at all the greatest athletes. They’re all just like a swag to them and it’s like, bring it a little bit of that into into your training. It’s like, why not work on that a little bit, you know? 0:08:00 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, you know, that’s the athleticism part to me, right, like we talk about. You know you want to be an athlete when you train you want to be an athlete. Golfers are athletes, but like so. For instance, I just had a gentleman in here the other day. He’s a year younger than me, 44 years old. He if he’s listening to this, he’ll know who I’m talking about having some back pain. I worked with him years ago when I was in the physical therapy clinic. But he came back and he, you know, played high level football, played a lot of high level sports, loves golf, and he’s been having so much pain recently that he’s like dude. I literally feel like an old man and almost to the point where it’s. It’s become depressing because he feels like the pain may never go away and this may. He may be just on the down slide right and I was like dude, you have so much athleticism in your history, in your background. Yeah, you beat your body up so we got to fix some things, but like it’s not over, you’re 44 years old, like we’re going to get this back, we’re. And I saw like the weight fall off of his shoulders and be like are you kid? Like like, oh, that’s all I needed to hear. And now you know he’s doing some things and we’ve only met one time but like I have very high hopes of where we’re going to go with him and just to make him feel like like he’s a strong, powerful dude again. You know, he’s like a 6’3 big guy and like and he said he was golfing with his dad not too long ago and his dad’s like what’s wrong with you? You look like an old man. He’s like I feel like I’m your age, you know so, so it’s that kind of thing. It’s like, yeah, I want to be able to move and do things. And you know, like, move around and not just stick in a box. You know, like Levecchio said, like do all my exercises in a phone booth, right like you need to be able to move like a, like a cat, you know. So I’m glad that you said that, because it’s it’s the athleticism and we we hear that word all the time, but to me that’s like really. 0:09:48 – Jeff FlaggWhat that means is like no, I’m it’s not downhill, I mean, that’s like I actually had so much, like you know, being at a golf club and you know my day to day is a lot of the older, you know, club golfers and it’s like it’s almost when they first come in. It’s like there’s a little bit of like that wall up that you got to break down. Like you know, the gym is, it’s intimidating call these weights, like all these things you know. And it’s like I, you know my doctor told me this I got this hip replaced, I got this bad knee, I got this shoulder, I got this neck fusion or whatever. And it’s like I’ve sort of I’ve worked with all of that and it’s like, okay, great, and I’m not here to diagnose you, that’s not my lane. It’s like I’m here to find what can we do. You know, as opposed to you told me all the things you can’t do, right, so it’s like what can you do? That’s where we start. And then you just built from there and it’s like, and you guys are in your playing golf three, four times a week. You know how hard a golf swing is on your body, like, if you can swing the golf club like, you can do a heck of a lot in the gym and it’s just again it’s like we’re here making the gym, you know, a, a, a, you know not a intimidating place, start here and then you just build it out and I think it’s yeah, it’s one thing I always try to do when trying to put myself in people shoes, being there in the past, injuries and you know kind of that feeling of I mean I was 20, you know, playing college baseball, and like I felt fragile, like I was big, strong, but like I felt fragile because I love training. It’s training hard and getting I’m not gonna anything, but it was a lot of the Olympic stuff, a lot of the square stuff, a lot of that it’s like. And then I always had to do a bunch of hip mobility and all that to get my body ready and it’s like had you know the little, you know the little oblique strains, little you know rhomboid strain, things like that, it’s like the little connectors and stuff, and it’s just like it got to the point where I was like I’m on paper I’m strong, but I don’t feel strong and it’s like there was just a disconnect there. So again, over the years of got athletic career taking its course, you know being exposed to different things over the years and you know competing myself, obviously in a different sport long drive and swing a stick for a long time and it’s like just trying to find what’s gonna. It’s never gonna be one-to-one, but like bringing you know all the benefits of training right. We all know to be healthy, resistance training is great, cardiovascular health and all that like that’s all like we get it. But golf is like my luck and I play it a lot and it’s like no-transcript in the traditional sort of approach is like you gotta do this, then go play your sport. But it’s like can we? You know, like we have to do the basics right. But what if the basics were a little more, kind of speaking to me and what I like to do and the rotation is a huge part of the golf swing and like that’s kind of where I kind of looking at the landscape and like when everybody comes to me, it’s like you know what is. What does every golfer say? When I get tired, I quit turning. You know I go to the golf pro. I can’t turn. Like I need more. I need more turn, I need more backswing, I need more like with. You know I’d say everybody says it and it’s like, okay, well, like, let’s work on that, you know. Let’s like let’s you know, if you, if you got it, let’s keep it, train hard and let’s keep it, and if you don’t have it, let’s sort of try to cultivate it and like, little by little, everything you do sort of goes into that bucket of like it’s helping me turn better. And and that’s where I, you know, when you think of next stuff, low back, you know, hip to knee, any of the you know pick your, pick it out of a hat, a lot of it comes back to it. For me, for golfers, it’s like it’s that’s, it’s not turning fully or inefficient, sort of mechanics and sequencing and and comes from, like you know, physical capacity not being able to rotate right, left, you know, or some you know, the golf swing will expose. If you have a, if you have a physical deficiency of any kind, the golf swing is going to expose it. 0:13:48 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, it’s interesting. You know, when we were communicating back and forth, you said something to the effect of you know, there’s a lot of of professionals out there saying that you know, like, and and I’m I’m one of them I’d said it in the last couple episodes that you know, golfers rotate all the time, and so one of the things we need to do when they’re in here is is not necessarily have them rotate, but you’re like, actually I’m here to like make a case for a little more rotation for these golfers, and what you just said about you know, at the end of their round, them losing their rotation, like that makes a lot of sense to me. We just had Mitch Sodowski on talking about the fact that golf isn’t explosive sport, but it’s also an endurance sport. No matter what level you’re playing, if you’re riding in the car for four hours, maybe five, or if you’re playing for four days, but yeah, at the at the end of a round, you still have to have the same mobility and capacity of the endurance of that rotation. So you know that that definitely kind of changes my mind a little bit on the idea of, yeah, maybe there we do need to, maybe I do need to start putting a little bit more of that stuff and and a lot of the unilateral stuff that ends up going in has some rotation to it. I’m watching a lot of your videos and seeing how you utilize the cables and things like that a lot. But yeah, so you’re here to plead the case for more rotation. 0:15:00 – Jeff FlaggYeah, I mean again, it’s like I’ve only snicked my whole life and it’s like you know, and it’s one of those things like over the years it’s just like aha moments and again being and it’s kind of like I feel like a lot of you know fitness professionals and trainers and things. It’s like we have, whether we have an athletic past or like have an injuries in the past, and it’s like that’s like sort of you know pushes us in this direction of like I want to help people not have those injuries and things. And and yeah, it’s just like it’s you know. It’s kind of how I see it is like it’s just preparing. It’s it’s you know we talk about building strength and it’s like rotational strength and that’s sort of where I sort of I guess you know my viewpoint sort of centers on, because obviously, with like power and speed you know I used to be a long drive champion like yeah, people kind of you know want to hit it further. It’s like I see the recipe being, you know, trained and get yourself strong and ripped drivers like do the thing Right and and again, we try and yeah, and I, I, I. I utilize the all kinds of tools but, like you know, medicine balls are kind of in the middle. But again, what I see, the limiting factor a lot of times is that rotational strength portion and, like you said, a lot of the you know, unilateral stuff. I mean, I just see rotation as it’s not just twisting right, it’s like you know it’s. You know what do we do right at golfers, right, we’re loading to the right, unloading to the left, right, okay, well, like what if we loaded to the left and unloaded to the right? And what if we, you know, right in a golfers, are side bent to the right at impact kind of creating force in a sort of right side bend, you know, impacting through the ball? So what if we create force side bending the left, like it’s just that the golf swing is very specific, so what? And I just I love again I sort of the the my dad’s architect and like I sort of gotten this eye over the years of like just looking at, like the architecture. You look at the body, you look at the lats and look at the obliques and you look at the pecs, look at the groin, like how they, they all like sort of wrap and and the architecture of it all, like okay, like you know, and I don’t know, not a penguin broad brush, but, like you know, bench squat and deadlift are like not hitting those like I use them, you know, and and it’s there’s a disconnect of a feel, right, and so it’s kind of again, I talk about it like it’s rotation just like ties everything together from a physical standpoint and from like I think when we talk about athleticism, like you know, you see, I mean the example that once comes up in my head is, like you know, you look at an unbelievable athlete like I just I remember this from years ago Adrian Peterson, right running back. I remember watching like a celebrity softball game and he was like swinging and missing Like dude, looks like a Greek God when he’s standing there he’s running on the football field but then like that rotational coordination and awareness and just looked like he was just like you know he was that fit out of water and it’s just like. Okay, so like the athleticism demands are different. Obviously he’s a great football player, but, you know, obviously a rotational athlete has different demands, right. So it’s like that’s kind of again all goes into like my, my sort of view on things of like you know it’s definitely not loading up a cable machine and holding it with a golf grip and you know, pulling down, like working on your downswing, that’s just that. But I just see, you know, with different implements. You know, I know I’ve kind of been told in the past that like the movements that I do with the foot, the feet pivoting, it’s like they kind of chuck that up to like baseball footwork. But to me it’s like you know we get so you know golfers get so planted in the ground right Again the like globally, sort of looking at the golf swing. It’s the feet are planted, the body’s rotating on top of sort of solid legs, right. Obviously there’s more involved, but so basically in the gym sort of flipping that. So those exercises are sort of getting the hips, the groins, lower leg, everything a little more active. Looks like a baseball swing, but it’s just, it’s kind of again, looking at it from a balanced perspective of like all right, I can rotate my feet planted, I can rotate my feet, movement, I can rotate with my yo and with those moves it’s like the chest is pretty square to the resistance and then it’s like, okay, I’ll do stuff where. It’s like, you know, feet are solid and the upper half is rotating, so it’s like it’s all. It’s kind of just just looking at all the different directions, it’s kind of like you know, or or from from pure motion, it’s like we’ve, we’ve, we sort of you know the whole planet and orbit, sort of analogy. It’s like you, when you look at the planet and you look at how the planets go around, it’s like you know, you got, you got here, you got here, you got here you got all the different angles and they’re all different. Like all the muscle activation is different. It’s different. You know parts you know harder than others and it’s just like it’s at the other day. It’s like I want to be able to cover all those bases to be just, you know, a complete rotational athlete. You know, that’s kind of kind of what I’m trying to try to build. You know, when I’m working with people yeah, I mean watching your videos. 0:20:30 – Jeff PelizzaroI mean, there’s some some cool things that I had never even really seen before. You know, like some of the bar movements where you’ve got the bar overhead and you’re either pulling or rotating and you’re in kind of that split stance, and I’ve always liked the idea or mentally just kind of seen the idea of like, yeah, we’re just trying to hit different angles, different vectors, and, and if my body can handle, or my client’s body can handle, forces in all different directions they can, they can find their balance, they can create some sort of force and and direction and movement against resistance. Like then I feel like we’re doing our job, like you said. As far as making them more well rounded, yeah, we’re not working specifically on what their downswing feels like in that motion, not to say that I never goof around with that kind of stuff too and play around with some of those things, right, because that’s also what they want they come in and they want the same. But, yeah, watching your, your different movements, I’m like that just makes so much sense and and some of the different you know apparatuses that you guys are able to use. 0:21:29 – Jeff FlaggWell, and it’s like you know, like I said, kind of with the, you know it’s like pro guys or or you know, college players, high level players, it’s like you know they have it right. They have rotates like we’re trying to get more the whole Western way more weight, more range of motion, more, more, more, more, more. So it’s you know it’s it’s cultivating that right and sort of solidifying that and stabilizing that. That’s their range of motion. They own it right. And then you know, for the older clubs, I mean I do like again some of the you know more extreme stuff, I sort of pose the me do under stuff like that. Like that that’s there’s obviously progressions, but I mean I do it with 75 year old ladies and I do it with, you know hope again guys that have neck fusions and it’s it’s it’s it’s a systemic sort of you know strengths that I want to build where it’s it’s. Yeah, maybe you do have, you know your, you know a couple cervical vertebrae fused. All right, you’re not getting anything out of that, right, you’re next to me a little stiff, but we got to get as much as we can out of thoracic. We got to get as much as we can out of our hips, we get as much as we can out of your shoulder blades, like we got to be able to like work with what you have. And it’s not just like it’s, it’s, you know it’s, and that’s where it’s like I talk about it more systemically where it’s not just sitting there doing isolated exercises, kind of like you’ve seen, it’s like it’s, it’s I’m on my feet coordinating everything and it’s it’s. Everybody in the boat is rowing the same direction and apparently you know some people are going to be limited, but it’s, I’m trying to. I’m trying to build it where it’s not just one area that’s getting connected to a lot of injuries happen. Right, it’s like you’re too loose in some areas, not strong enough in other areas, and it’s like the one spot that kink in the hose gets hammered and trying to again open everything up where it’s. And again, with the older clientele not even if I love the cable so much because you can, you can play with resistance and it’s like you can put them in athletic positions and it’s, you know, kind of work in resistance that they’re not really used to and you know kind of you know they’re so used to golf swing rotating. You know loaded rotating. You know, I take all my lessons, do all that and it’s like just getting them to rotate the opposite direction. It’s almost like the whole, all the benefits of like walking backwards. Right, there is the brain benefits, of what it’s like just getting them rotating in a different direction or having, you know, loading on one leg instead of the other or sort of just it’s sort of you can see their brains sort of light up where it’s like, and that’s where, again, a lot of tightness and stuff comes from just awareness and like you know, a you lock up because you don’t feel strong and you don’t feel comfortable with your balance or your strength or your you know. You kind of devolved this way, right, so to be able to sort of not only, obviously, you know, strengthen the tissues and things like that, but it’s given the brain that information of like hey, like you’re safe here, like you can turn here, like you can go there, like it’s, it’s all just feeding, trying to feed good information into the system and let the athlete do what it wants. Everybody swings different ways, everybody’s got different ways to do it. It’s just like let’s just try to bulletproof you so you can be, you know, free to do it, use it, how you use it, you know. 0:24:58 – Jeff PelizzaroWhen did your kind of philosophy mentality on training shift so for for people that are listening that don’t know your background, professional baseball won the 2014 Long Drive Championship. Then was it after Long Drive that you went back for your education in exercise. 0:25:17 – Jeff FlaggI finished baseball and then I had a semester of school left so I went back I think it was 20, 2013, went back to school and then that’s when, like you know, didn’t have baseball. You know, I was like my spring, my spring is freed up. You know, it’s nice to have a spring time, so I was going to go to school and start philosophy and just spending more time to golf course just because I was, you know, kind of I’d always kind of grew up, I just kind of self taught growing up playing. And then I met a swing coach there and you know, we we got on technology the first time, I think first time I, you know, measured my swing speed of, like you know, 132 or four or something like that. So it’s like you know I was, I was a power first baseman, like I had. I had I’ve always had a little bit of juice. You know, being six foot six helps too, but but, but, uh, and just started, you know, long Drive there, and then that was 2013, then one in 2014. But, um, yeah, I met Jorge from Pure Motion in 2010, I believe, when I would play baseball, and and he just he had this warehouse and he, I like it was an off season job, um, I like I worked there and was able to work out there and, like, sort of, was exposed to sort of his way of looking at things. And you know, it’s cool just thinking back. I mean, it’s been a long time now. But like the development of you know, some of the products and stuff that you see, it’s like it’s kind of fun to be in the lab with the crazy guy that he is, um, but that sort of started to shift my focus of like. It’s like, yeah, I mean I honestly remember having like an epiphany of like, yeah, I forget I was in the car and driving. I was like man, I just wish I could find something like because I love training, you know, with the school, just like you know, you know, at the high school, like Getting into weightlifting, getting hurt, and then you know like having the old, like the old, like Hershey Walker, like the calisthenics, like you know pushups and the side like a body weight stuff, yeah, like doing that as a young kid. And then like getting and getting the college and lifting heavy and like getting big and strong, like I loved it all. Okay then, I loved it Just the fact that you know it’s preparing me For the sport and because you know baseball was life and it’s just like over the years, get beat up, and it was just like sort of having this little reservations and I’m like on paper I’m strong like bench in 315. Like you know I’m not I know what. I backslotted power clean and stuff like that, but like strong, but like just felt like I was you know kind of stiff when I was going to swing and run and Things like that, and it just like it was like the more I did of that, the stiffer I was getting, you know and without having to do a bunch of, like you know, hip mobility stuff. So that just is a seed that was planted in my head and then getting exposed to to Jorge and like. Oh, like this is different, like this is like it’s the same stuff, like it’s squatting, it’s the basics, right, it’s squatting, it’s benching, it’s, it’s it’s pushing, it’s pulling, it’s rotating and it’s like oh, like this feels different and it was one of those things like it. Just I Work there as an offseason job like shipping orders, and then, like then started, then started kind of finishing my degree and then started training intern there and then sort of was going around it and so was there, you know, director of education, that going overseas teaching it and and then just again getting winning a long drive, getting in the golf world, sort of looking at through the golf lens and and just getting putting all the pieces together. It’s been a bit of interesting, like, looking back, it’s always pretty interesting to see how it all falls together, but it’s it just always goes back to like, yeah, it’s funny, the people that I I exposed to it myself, included Jorge, like Jorge’s in a five-time Olympian In in in martial arts. So it’s like it’s rotational athletes, it’s just like it just it fits for for for that approach and I’ve sort of you know again, kind of doubling down on Stickin ball, sports, golf and baseball, like I’ve sort of you know, tweaked some things and and you know it’s it’s evolved, but it all goes back to just building a rotational athlete. And it’s like I’m use this with NFL players, like you think about you know I can get making the case right now I’m making the case, but like if I was to to talk to an NFL guy, like if you’re running cutting change of directions, like you got to be able to get in that hip, you got to be able to rotate the torso, or it’s like those forces in your, in your, your knee and back, or like our. There are a lot for big and strong guys. So it’s that ability to be soft but also training hard, lifting heavy, you know good. Again, it’s like those sort of traditionally sort of Opposing viewpoints can try to meld those and bring those a little closer together. 0:30:29 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, I would imagine with somebody like that, that maybe has trained kind of that you know straightforward way their entire life. Just Implementing some of these rotational pieces just you know different angles and directions, I mean just having them do a little bit of that stuff could Really really increase the effectiveness of them. Out on the turf and running and cutting and and you know, jumping, I mean everything and in and injured and that’s like it’s the. It’s just that, it’s that it’s a piece of the. 0:30:59 – Jeff FlaggIt’s just that. It’s that. It’s a piece that I see is missing. I feel like it’s just again. You see, and this is, you know, rotational athletes included, I mean again working with some college guys. It’s like to see, it’s like what I went, like it’s it’s, you know, it’s kind of a football workout and then let’s throw some med balls or let’s do some like immobility stuff and there’s a golf workout now, you know, but it’s like kind of Looking at all of it and being like all right, do we should? Does a golfer really need to like barbell bench? That’s all it’s got like. You know, pressing strength is important, but like if you have a cable or band or a suspension trainer or something like that, like to be able to do unilateral work, to be able to like it incorporates some of that. It’s just our bodies are just you look at everything’s just twisting and wrapping around. You like it just again. It’s like I just feel like there’s gaps, you know, and I don’t know if you felt it, or or just when you, when you sort of add some of that stuff in it, it it just ties everything together, right, and that’s a kind of my goal with anybody, right. But you know athletes that you know make a living doing it, it’s, it’s. You can’t be injured and you know we can’t leave any stone unturned as far as you know your health and your performance and we, there’s a lot of things that you, you know. It’s that the benefits of loading the body and Doing it in a way that you move, and you know flow and move in your sport and it’s kind of just again trying to Check both of those boxes and not one or the other, and it seems like we’re learning so much more about the body and really like the fascia and how that connects everything. 0:32:40 – Jeff PelizzaroSo you know, when we went through school we saw our anatomy charts and we saw the muscles and they the origin is here, the insertions here, and and we kind of thought, straight planes and okay, this muscle moves this, this muscle moves this. And now it’s like, oh my gosh, everything’s connected and we’re seeing that some of the most effective ways of training for Athleticism and just to have that we like call that elasticity or hyper elasticity is you have to move in these different directions. You have to to build the, the fascia and the connective tissue so it it’s able to move differently and accept all these different stresses for injury prevention, but also for that, that speed and that explosiveness that you’re so yeah, absolutely. 0:33:19 – Jeff FlaggI mean, it’s just it’s that, that that interconnected and it’s like just kind of tapping into, like, yeah, and it’s kind of what I preach to people too is just that that, yeah, I want people to like push back on, like this is what I think, but I’ll, you got to feel it like, you got it like and that’s like, again, a lot of the feedback I get is like I’m I’m freed up a little bit like and it’s like and then I’m not talking like, you know, 25 year old professional athletes, I’m talking like you know, 70 year old men and women. It’s like they’re, you know, because we had golf and I feel like you can, you can just everything is, you know, I need to be tight with my, with my form. I can’t take the club out, I can’t take it in, I got to take it here and then it’s like I got a, you know, I got to have, I got to have the posture and everything’s almost like shrinking, shrinking us a little bit In the sake of VR, in the name of control, or, you know, it’s just to be able to, because, again, training is important and it’s like for overall health. But if we can make that training, help them dude, because obviously you’re working with golfers like myself and it’s like that’s such a huge part of their life they’re going to spend, they’re going to invest some time with you to get healthy. But it’s like you want I always preach, like you should be able to hit balls when we get done, like I don’t care how many pounds we’re moving over the course of 30 minutes or an hour, it’s like you should be able to walk out and, because golf is the sport you play every day, like I can’t blast you, take three days to get that sort of out and then blast you again. It’s like that’s not a sustainable practice and the more it again what I’ve seen like the more you train in this free. It’s controlled, but it’s free. We’re not just rolling around the ground and some of those free flowing workouts which, again, if that’s your jam, go ahead, but it’s freedom, but you’re low in the body and then again it’s going to in applicable ways to how you use it. That’s where, with the golf swing, I kind of look at it like get zooming out. What are we doing? Right, we’re leveraging a tool, we are rotating and we are have to sync all that up and we’re interacting with the ground, right. So it’s like all right, let me check those boxes while I’m training and I can lunge, push, pull, rotate and then check all those boxes as well. It’s like, okay, we’re preparing for imposed demands. So that’s kind of. Again, that’s what I have tried to and I’m always sort of tweaking it and trying to poke holes in it. But it’s been fun to sort of apply it across all populations and as people enjoy it and get better. 0:36:26 – Jeff PelizzaroLet’s take a second to thank our sponsors over at 1st Phorm, and this week I want to highlight their Formula One post-workout protein shake. I use this thing pretty much every day after my workouts because, let’s face it, being here in a gym working all the time with clients putting on a podcast, it can sometimes be tough to get my protein in on a regular basis. And so I know that with the post-workout shake the Formula One, first of all, it’s fast-acting. So right after your workout it’s a great time to get your protein in to help build your muscles, get yourself stronger and repair what you’ve done in the gym. But also, if you don’t know if you’re going to be able to get your protein in in your regular meals, it’s just a great way to make sure that you’re supplementing and hitting those marks. So be sure to go over to 1stphorm.com forward slash 18STRONG to get your 1st Phorm Formula One protein shake, and everyone that enters through that link is going to be put into a drawing every single month for free 1st Phorm products. So again, go over to 1stphorm.com forward slash 18STRONG. For those of you listening, check out Jeff’s page so you can see some of the stuff we’re talking about. For those that are just listening, jeff, we’ve mentioned pure motion and some of their tools a little bit. Just give a little bit of an idea so people can kind of understand what’s different about what you guys have or what Jorge has built. 0:37:45 – Jeff FlaggIt’s also kind of funny about that is when you really distill it down. It’s literally what the Egyptians used the most primitive tools. Obviously they look a little different in a trading setting, but it’s literally like pulleys, levers and free weights. That’s literally it. And honestly, the cable machines is like that’s my favorite piece of equipment in any gym and it’s hilarious because you go in a lifetime where you go in an equinox or something like that and you go in. It’s like the dual cable machine is like sitting in the corner, like nobody’s using it, somebody’s doing chess flies on it. It’s like to me it’s the most personal piece, just because you can change vectors, you can change angles and it’s like a more of an applicable angle to how we’re moving. In sports it’s like in golf. I mean that golf club is moving diagonally around us and it’s like nothing is like the play of the glass that we learned in school. I’m like you know sagittal play. It’s like we’re interacting with the ground differently. We’re interacting with an outside resistance. So it’s like the cables and the attachments. With the cables that get simple stuff. It’s a longer bar so you can have two hands on it. It’s a longer bar so you can kind of increase the leverage and get that resistance away from you a little bit, which forces the core to work more. The landmine, called the renegade in pure motion terms, but the landmine system, like in all the attachments that go with that, it’s like it’s so funny because it’s so simple. It’s like the attachment that goes on the user end. Literally it’s just allowing you to have the width or the grip of an Olympic bar, just on that end. It’s just a handle and it’s all it is, and then a longer one so you can load it on your shoulder and do lower body stuff, the different. I know I’ve used the Omega a lot. That’s kind of a little more advanced, but it’s the same sort of thing. It’s just increasing leverage, kind of get your arms out of the way from you a little bit. Some of the Olympic variations are pretty sweet just because it’s the handle swivel kind of on that landmine setup where it’s just allowing you to keep your wrist neutral, like I mean, working with football guys are like you know, our hands are like linemen and stuff Our hands at risk get crushed in practice. And then it’s like I’m going to go in the gym after practice and do cleans and have to catch it and it’s like, again, the form of cleans is super important and it’s like cleans are valuable but it’s like can we do it in a way that’s like not going to beat you up as much, you don’t have to learn the skill as much, and that’s kind of what you know he’s accomplished there. And then, like suspension trainer, it’s like you know it’s got a pulley so you can do one arm, you can do rotational stuff you can do. You’re free to move a little bit where it’s like it’s just like you know the straps aren’t going to rub your arms raw, like it’s just giving you like more options out of like kind of simple tools. The mopping bar is a great one. I don’t know I haven’t posted down in a while. I got to. I got to. 0:41:17 – Jeff PelizzaroI remember seeing that I haven’t seen it recently. I got to show you that one. I got to post something. 0:41:22 – Jeff FlaggYeah, yeah, which, again, it’s like it’s just your ground based. You’re having to like load your body rotation. I mean it’s really nothing that I’ve ever done that hits the trunk like that. We call it the short bite, but like it’s, you load that up and I don’t care. Like it’s a, it’s a different kind of strength that you need to to do some of those moves and it’s like, and that’s again to be able to like load it up and again like to train those patterns hard. And it’s like nothing, nothing on the golf course is going to like put you in a vulnerable spot, like it’s. It’s like you know the foot pivoting movements and the wide stances and the big. Like you know rotational arcs and bending and flexing and it’s anything else. That’s like if I can do all that or build myself up to do that, it’s like you know hitting 500 golf balls is not going to, not going to move the needle. It’s like it’s just so. It’s again, it’s just building your building that engine to to withstand what you’re, what you’re trying to do, what you, where you want to go. 0:42:31 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, I love it. The, the one that I’ve been seeing, the it’s like the elbow slings where you’ve got them like in a plank position. So is that just a? 0:42:39 – Jeff Flaggpulley that’s attached. It’s called the air fit, but yeah, it’s like. So it’s. It’s suspension trainer, but it’s got a pulley right and it’s like it’s. And the slings again are sort of designed to just sit on your arms. So again, pushing exercises and I use it. I got clipped off and used on a cable machine too, but the whole idea and it’s like a seat belt material where it’s not going to rub your arms like like, like another, like sort of strap would on some suspension trainers, so it’s like you’re able to put your shoulder in a stronger position. One and then two, the core stuff that the sling allows you. I mean that like that’s like I got to. I got to, I got to come out there in person and like bring you through some of that. Cause it’s like that’s another, that’s a strength, that’s a core strength that it’s so untapped, I guess to say cause. It’s like. There’s not many things that I’ve found that that can you know some like hanging leg raises maybe can, but it’s like there’s a. It it’s those lower abs and hip flexors and it’s kind of it’s in a supported position, right. It’s not like I’m isolating that specifically. It’s like I’m. I’m technically, I’m on my feet Right. But and when I talk to you know, and usually across the board, when I put golfers on that initially, it’s like they they can do five and they’re crushed and it’s just like cause. It’s just a different strength and it’s like it’s and how I explain it is like it’s it’s a strength where you can. When you build it up, it’s like you’re you’re supporting your back from the front and you think about, I know some of the bass, I kind of a reverse sit up move where you sort of like a pike is kind of you know for not having video of it it’s, it’s kind of a pike motion. But what I’m sort of what accentuates is that sort of eccentric lengthening of the abs on the way out and that redirects into flexing the hips and the trunk. And when you think about the golf swing, I’m you know everybody’s talking about speed, you know ground forces, extension and busting up and through it. It’s like I don’t want all that go, I don’t want just my spinal extensors to like be fired, that I need to have that eccentric strength on the front to protect, you know to, to build that armor. I think I I was kind of the theme last time I was on here is, like you know, building that armor to be able to because, again, you want to increase speed, you got to bang drivers like, and you got to like get crazy, you got to like step into it and you got to like recoil and like do all kinds of crazy stuff and getting your body in a position to withstand that. Like we got to layer those, those, those sheets of armor on you, and that’s especially one that that I’ve found, like guys, a little back and hip stuff sort of I’ll say it’s not immediate, but sort of melt away when they have that strength that that that can protect. 0:45:43 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, I, I could see that being super beneficial and and I so, for those of you listening and hopefully watching, we’ll have some videos. But you know, you’re like the one that I watched. You had one of your guys in a plank position and you’re there, their elbows are in like straps right and you had them doing kind of that pike. But then you also had them do like a rotation like getting their shoulder blades like rotating, and I was like, oh, that that looks so good, cause you’re stabilizing with the shoulders, you’re getting the the shoulder blades moving, you’re rotating that thoracic spine, but again you’re on your feet still, you’re, you’re in a plank position, so you’re having to hold everything still and and taught, and you’re teaching them how to just separate that upper, upper torso. Really get in the serratus, Like I well. 0:46:26 – Jeff FlaggI call it the riblets, but the riblets. 0:46:29 – Jeff PelizzaroI like it. 0:46:30 – Jeff FlaggAnd yeah, it’s just it’s. It’s kind of you know you hold that it’s. It’s forcing you to sort of keep the hips up, cause a lot of times it’s that feel of it. It’s kind of you’re in a you know a horizontal plank position. But I still like to think of it as, like you’re, you’re engaged with the grounds, like your, your feet are active, like holding yourself up and contributing to that, like a lot of times people get in those slings and the back sort of sags, and so it’s like it’s. It’s just a you know you get the feel of it and it’s like that it’s. It’s you know then go ahead and do you know 50, 100, 200 reps of it, you know good luck, yeah. 0:47:09 – Jeff PelizzaroI’m going to come. I’m going to come. 0:47:10 – Jeff FlaggIt’s miserable and awesome at the same time. Well, I’m going to bring some of my toys. 0:47:16 – Jeff PelizzaroLet’s set it up. We’ll definitely do it. We’ll get to have a little 18STRONG seminar here from with Jeff Flagg. That’d be, that’d be awesome. So you’re down at the Bears Club now in Jupiter, right? When did, when did you shift down to there and tell us a little bit about what’s going on? I mean, you’ve got a new training program coming in. That was 2018. 0:47:32 – Jeff FlaggI was in Chicago, I think, the last time I talked to you. I don’t know how I have to get one. The last time was long yeah. Episode episode 170. And where we? What is this? 0:47:42 – Jeff Pelizzaro This is 365. Full year, yeah, yeah. 0:47:51 – Jeff FlaggSo I was. I got the opportunity to come down here and I mean it’s just, it’s it’s not very lucky to be here. It’s pretty fun. Our members are great. I mean just to you know, again, it’s like kind of you got to pin yourself to like you know I’ll be in there working with somebody and Jack walks through like it’s kind of it’s like, you know, get to pick his brain on you know golf courses or yeah, it’s, it’s. It’s it’s pretty wild but they give like membership is great, you know it’s out for it. It’s it’s, you know, not bad this time of year and I don’t want to rub it in, but yeah and and kind of you know it’s taken me longer than it should, but I probably talked about it last time I was on this, but I getting finally getting an online program up and running, launching that in the next short little bit, hopefully. And yeah, it’s just kind of how I guess kind of how I framed it was you know what no-transcript If I was to work, if somebody’s gonna walk off the street right and and and work with me, and kind of all the things that I look at. Kind of like we talked about. It’s like what, what can, what can I do to sort of, you know, coach that and and Push that like what, what? What would be the ideal scenario? It’s like, hey, they came in and like they’ve done all these things are good. All these movements like Okay, like now we can roll, like so it’s like it’s. It’s again, it’s my mind online program. I’m sure you can relate like I can think of every way people do it wrong. I can think of all the things. I think of all that if somebody’s got a bum shoulder, like all right, you gotta change this, tweak this, like the in-person, the art of it in person, you sort of got it back off of that a little bit. But but yeah, hopefully, hopefully, people like it. It’s again a lot of the movements. Again, at the end of the day it’s like kind of Kind of a tagline. But you know you’re just moving different, right, like you got to move different. Like you know kind of Setting it up where it’s simple again, everybody’s got cables at their gym, everybody’s got free weights. Like if you don’t have cables, use bands. Like kind of giving those solutions to Get your body. It get sort of your mind wrapped around training differently and loading the body differently and just did not only get, obviously, build strength for what you’re doing, but given that confidence and you know it, that bleed over into, you know, into your golf game, into your, into regular life, it’s like it’s it’s sort of, you know again, kind of wrapping it all up when you don’t have any gaps, you don’t have any weak links like that’s. That’s that’s my goal for, for this. So, you know, can kind of I kind of positioned it as, like you know, you know, you know it can be standalone, it can be, if you love, you know, power cleaning and and barbell benching, you can add this to what you’re doing and and Round out, round out everything. So you have tried to make it as like, versatile as possible, just because I think it’s just, it’s valuable ways to load the body and and I’ve had success with it and hopefully more people can, can try it and and you know I don’t know if say, enjoy it, but you enjoy it when you’re done, yeah. 0:51:05 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, yeah, well, definitely let us know when it. When is the launch officially to be? Next to heaven day for it? 0:51:11 – Jeff FlaggI believe I got a double check, but hopefully at the see Masters at the latest, I would say. So that’s, that’s that’s. 0:51:21 – Jeff PelizzaroThat’s. That’s at the latest. Yeah, it’s a good launch time. 0:51:24 – Jeff FlaggSo, uh, yeah, and it’s, and it’s kind of we get it sort of designed in a way like from a sustainability perspective. It’s like it doesn’t have to be all season, right. And it’s another sort of kind of viewpoint on it that I have is like you know, if it’s important, you got to do it consistently and it’s not just like I’m sure you see that a lot. It’s like I want to come in and work out for the next three months when it’s snowing and then when it’s golf time, I’ll see you. 0:51:47 – Jeff PelizzaroI’ll see you in October, november, you know, and it’s like that’s not no, no, you, usually it’s, usually it’s golf, golf’s coming in two weeks. Like what can we do in these next two weeks, because I haven’t done anything all winter. 0:51:59 – Jeff FlaggYeah, so it’s like it’s it’s designed to, to be like whether it’s the middle of the season. It’s like you can plug it right in and it’s not gonna you know it’s, you should feel like you could go hit balls when you’re done, but you can also train hard and that’s those are kind of the two big rocks that I it’s not interfering with the skill at all, so, um, trying to Really be kind of as precise as I can with you know, being able to implement at any point, um and for again, as for as many people as possible, like I said, I’ve sort of stress tested it from, you know, 15 years old, 80 years old, pro golfers, club golfers, kind of everything in between. So, um, so yeah, so again, I hope I hope people like it and I hope, uh, hope, it’s received well, hopefully, um, you know we can, we can get people moving different. 0:52:57 – Jeff PelizzaroThat’s awesome. You know it’s, it’s tough and I don’t know that the the general public understands how tough it can be to create a program like that. For Because golf is such a broad spectrum, like you just said, you know high schoolers up to 80, plus your old golfers and and as a coach, and you can even hear it when you’re talking about. It’s like You’re going through all those little things like, oh, but I don’t want to do this because this you know, because it could influence this person or that person. So it’s tough. So kudos to you for for putting together a family poem trigger because, um, it’s a lot of it’s a lot of work behind the scenes that people don’t, yeah, I mean you, you know better than anybody. 0:53:34 – Jeff FlaggSo, um, so yeah, I mean it’s like, again, it’s, it’s, yeah, and I think one thing that I ran into is like there’s a, there’s a freedom to Kind of you know, using a cable machine. It’s like it’s, it’s the the, the movement is, is free, but you have to sort of impose, sort of the the, the barriers yourself. Right, you got to, you got to load in that front leg and you can’t let it pull you around. You got to control your spine angle. You can’t like, you know, if you’re pulling or pushing you can’t be like wobbling all over the place. So it’s like it’s, it’s sort of it’s there’s, there’s freedom in it, which again, on the other hand, is like you can do a lot wrong, um, but but I think, I’ve tried to Distilled it down, um, and so hopefully presented it in a way that is going to. You know, it’s easy to. I kind of one of the taglines or I just find myself saying it a lot with people in person is it’s intuitive once you get it. It’s kind of an oxymoron, but it’s like. It’s like yeah, it’s like, yeah, you feed here, you just dance here, you hold it like this, then it’s like then, when they start moving, it’s like, oh, okay, like I, it feels right. 0:54:45 – Jeff PelizzaroYou know, it’s not like you have to Stay braced up or it’s like a really strict form, so it’s like there’s always wiggle room in gray area, um, but uh, yeah, it’s intuitive once you get it, awesome before, before I forget to ask you we’re gonna jump into these last questions here but where, where will people be able to go get it, or what’s the best place to kind of keep track of of you and find you and so, um, instagram, probably because you’re you know. 0:55:10 – Jeff FlaggNow you’re watching me like a hawk, so now I gotta. I gotta, I gotta post consistently now at your, at your advice so, yeah, instagram, and then it’s gonna be Flagg performancecom, real, original, but yeah, and then you get just kind of launch and get it out there and then you know, hopefully it grows and and you know iterations of it and you know, kind of have in my mind I want it to be as as high touch as possible. Um so, um, you know, I got it set up in a way where, like people can give their feedback and like they can, yeah, it’s almost like you know, I’m ideally I’m coaching them, um, remotely. So because it’s again there’s I I love the, the coaching part of it and seeing it, that ability to open up for people, like that’s that’s sort of why I’m doing this. So, to make sure that, like you know, it’s even to the, to the yeah, I even got something built in there. We’re like, yeah, you kind of Let me know what Stuff you’re working on your sling, if you want to put swing video in there too. It’s like a sort of like I kind of had those options because it’s just like I just want to make the gym is like Seamless as possible, like your goal is it’s to be a better golfer and and again, at, like the gym should, you know, be pushing you in that direction. So, um, so, yeah, yeah, that’s where, that’s where. That’s that’s my story. I’m sick of doing. 0:56:42 – Jeff PelizzaroVery cool. All right, my friend, we’re gonna close up. I know we asked you these on episode one seven. 0:56:46 – Jeff FlaggYeah, some. Of them. 0:56:47 – Jeff PelizzaroSome of them are a little bit changing difference. Yeah so, uh, so let’s have some fun with it. First of all, caddy shacker happy, go more. 0:56:54 – Jeff FlaggI mean I got a stick of caddy shack. I think that’s my. That’s just so good, so good. Yeah one of the best ever. 0:57:03 – Jeff PelizzaroWhat would your? What’s your walk-up song to the first I got? 0:57:06 – Jeff Flagga question on this. So are you talking like a competitive rounds, or like a like a, like a round buddies, like you’re like a sort of hanging out? 0:57:15 – Jeff PelizzaroI don’t want to both now, now that you maybe specify Well. 0:57:18 – Jeff FlaggI got, I think, the one like, if it’s it’s competitive, I mean I don’t want to be that guy that hard though that like has a bunch of like yeah, because I’m like I’m like a you know gym, like rap guy, like you know, sort of like it’s you want to have a little bit of you know something with swag to like put you, you know, to get you, you get them right mindset. But it’s also, I think, what I said last time, my last year baseball call me baby, call me babies, like it’s like yeah, oh, like this big guy’s coming to play and like Call me baby, just a banger anyway. So I got the timeless banger. So I think I might have just stick with that. I looked it up and I’m like dude, I’m wondering if you’re gonna change it. This is all the opponent, all right. Oh, it’s like. 0:58:02 – Jeff PelizzaroI like it. 0:58:04 – Jeff FlaggSix, six monster coming in, call me baby. 0:58:07 – Jeff PelizzaroOkay, the crowd loves it. The crowd loves it. All right, and if, if you’re just, if you’re just hanging with your boys, oh, man um. 0:58:17 – Jeff FlaggYou know, like Country’s pretty chill, like you know, you know, let’s say, rap’s not really appropriate for golf course. Um, you know, get, uh, you know I like Eric church, um, yeah, probably something along those lines. Like country kind of chill, like nothing too too too crazy, because we’re not, we’re not Trying to be crazy, we’re just just having fun. But yeah, um, perfect, yeah, that’s what I’m going with. 0:58:43 – Jeff PelizzaroYou’ll have to come on our Nashville trip next year. You have to get right in. All right, is there a book that you like to recommend to people, something that has meant a lot to you Golf wise, fitness, wise, life wise that you have, uh, have like to recommend, or even given it is a gift, to somebody else? 0:59:01 – Jeff FlaggOne that I liked, um, that I’ve sort of recommended to some people like young players and stuff. It’s funny because the the title almost sort of doesn’t ruin it but it sort of gives it. It sort of um, framed it for what it is is, uh, it takes what it takes. I don’t know if you, if you’ve come across that, um, the guy, I think the guy in the last couple years actually Passed away Trevor boad, it was his name Um, it’s like a performance coach For, like any Russell Wilson like wrote the the forward or whatever. But it’s like and I know nix saven has a blurb in it, I think, or has referenced it, and and and it’s you know, it’s basically like kind of talking to guys you know, young pros and stuff. It’s like you know. It’s like I think there’s a quote of saven, you know, I guess kind of talking along the lines of you know, you, you think you have options, Like if you want to be good or great at something, like you think you have all these options, all these things to do. It’s like the you. It takes what it takes, like it’s kind of this, the simplicity of it, it’s pretty uh, it’s pretty incredible, but it’s you look at the greats and you look at what all they did and it’s like anybody in any realm. It’s like it’s it’s sort of laid out for you and it’s like you can’t, especially golf, I mean. It’s like you know, setting expectations. It’s such a big part of it. It’s like you want to be here. There’s people that have been there before. You can see what they’ve done and you’re not willing to do that, like, okay, but that’s what it takes, like it takes what it takes. Again, they can be applied any, any role life. I mean it’s talking about um, there’s another book that I from him that I haven’t read, but it the concept is in this book too. It’s like give, like stinking neutral, you know not. 1:00:49 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, getting in neutral, yeah. 1:00:51 – Jeff FlaggNot, you know, bad or good, high or low, it’s just, it’s neutral. Being able to assess sort of where you’re at and what you’re doing, where to go, like that’s going to give you the best chance. So, um, yeah, that’s like I find that I’ve I’ve referenced that to people a few times. I got it on the bookshelf somewhere, but uh, yeah, yeah, that’s a good one. 1:01:14 – Jeff PelizzaroCool, all right. Who’s your dream celebrity? For some these days, you could pick four guys. 1:01:21 – Jeff FlaggWe’ll give you four, three or four, whatever you want. Let’s see, I was thinking about this and like, obviously it’s like ideal for some. I got a. I got a almost three year old now, so it’s like he’s definitely going to be in it with me. But if you’re talking celebrity and like historical, like why don’t we get what? Do we think? We got Tiger Jack and what’s another? I guess one more all time great. We talking Hogan, because we’re arguing. Everybody argues about all the different generations. Right, it’s like put them all together, put them in a group. 1:02:00 – Jeff PelizzaroPut them in the prime. 1:02:01 – Jeff FlaggYou know, I mean, jack, it’s a long, and like do it out and I’ll just watch. I’ll just keep the clubs in the cart, like I don’t even need to play and just to watch, just get all the arguments. It’s like the LeBron MJ, like let’s just have a play and see, see the best of the best and kind of see who comes out on top. It’s like that would be if I had to get a magic lantern. That would be my group. 1:02:31 – Jeff PelizzaroI like that one. What are they Hogan, snead? All right If we probably I throw Hogan in the mix, yeah, throw maybe Snead in there. I think those are probably the. I’d say Hogan, tiger, jack, if I had to pick three, three dudes there, yeah For sure, all right If we had the 18STRONG jet fueled up ready to go. I’m like, jeff, we’re going wherever you want to go. What’s the bucket list course that we’re going to today? 1:03:06 – Jeff FlaggI’m, I guess, pulled towards like terrain or like parts of the world that I’ve like, I’ve never been like or like you know, I’m never been abandoned. I’ve heard band is amazing. I just saw recently that new course. There’s a new course, see, lucia. Like on the ocean, like that one’s pretty sick, looks sick. Yeah, I mean, there’s just so much like, I guess, to me I’m like a big like, I guess nature guys, not nature guy, but like you know it, if it’s, if it’s a golf course sort of tucked in the terrain of mountains or ocean, or like that’s just like that, that’s like, that’s it for me, like any, any and all of those, everybody stops you want to make, I’m good. As long as it’s on your tab, we’re good. 1:03:59 – Jeff PelizzaroI dig it, I like it. What’s the best piece of golf advice you’ve ever been given? 1:04:07 – Jeff FlaggProbably have to say play golf, not golf swing. You know we can. We tend to get super technical in our, in our, in our profession and you know when, when you think about you know, I was sort of self-taught grown up so like being able to just think it back and like what was I doing? I was just like hitting wiffleballs in my front yard, just like trying to hit it over that tree and trying to hit it around the house, like you know, and it’s like I wasn’t been care where I was the top, like I didn’t care what my takeaway looked like, and it’s like that could just that could just like overpower us sometimes and when we work on it and we want to get better, but it’s just like go out there again, you’re in a, you’re in a beautiful, keep the property, like don’t just like go play golf, go hit shots. 1:04:57 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, I would imagine like me when I was a kid you know you, especially being a baseball player like just going on pretending like you were a different guy at the plate, you know, and like you could, you could mimic different swings and and it’s like why do we not do that with golf, where it’s just like have some fun with it, you know? I mean, yeah, there’s technical things that are you know better ways to swing, but like being able to go and just and just act like you’re Andre Dawson at the plate, you know, and you got his high, you know. King of Virginia. 1:05:28 – Jeff FlaggLike King of Virginia, like I remember that, and it’s just like, yeah, what are we doing? I have to get like I mean, I love, like the old, like, and I never really was kind of into golf, like you know or watch Seviply, but like to watch, like the, the short game, like the, the, the, the. There’s like hitting flop shots with a four iron and, like you know, curve it like bubble Watson. Now he hits ball and it’s just like, yeah, you can be the robot or attempt to be the robot. It’s like, and that may work for a select few, but it’s like have fun, try to hit it over that tree, like, try to. You know, it’s just hit shots and I feel like the enjoyment of the game, like it’s a game at the end of the day. So, so, yeah, just go go play. 1:06:19 – Jeff PelizzaroAll right, last one what’s a social media account that you’ve kind of been into lately that you think the 18STRONG crew should go to check out? 1:06:28 – Jeff FlaggAnd I actually looked at this earlier and I think you had him on early, early on. I followed him for a little bit. now that Austin Einhorn oh yeah your notes, I think, is how you’d say. He’s like, hey, it’s like his, his posts and his blog and things like that. It’s like it sort of makes you think it sort of has a little bit of an outside view of things, like you know, and it’s like kind of doesn’t look traditional. But, like you know, it’s like you get results and it’s it’s again sort of a different lens, like you were talking about earlier, like looking at things and that’s a good one. What else? Oh, I mean it’s like I got another guy. I met him at a photo shoot. He’s great. Christian Hafer is his name. He’s a. I get the 18STRONG crew we’re all golf nuts, right. So like he’s like a. He’s a photographer that works a lot of tour events and goes around all these places and it’s like that he’s part of the the golfers journal. So he does a lot of the photography for that, and it’s like man, like some of the like swing videos he gets, and it’s like I get the art of golf and that like he’s really showcasing like the, the, the properties and the, the, the, the holes, and just looking at it from different angles, and it’s like the, the art of it, and it’s like, yeah, I feel like, if I’m not like an architecture nerd by any means, but I’m, I’m learning, but like it’s just, I’m just cool, like a cool account to follow, like he’s the man, so great dude too. So that’d be my two. 1:08:06 – Jeff PelizzaroThat’s one of those things that I wish I had, just that, that artistic view, the ability to use a camera, like some of those guys do video and and just still pictures. It’s just they make things look so great and cool. Dude, you know, I’m trying to. 1:08:18 – Jeff FlaggI’m wracking my brain, putting my pictures in the black and white, like that’s all I got. That’s the extent of my photography knowledge, so, so, yeah, I would say I’d learn a few tips from him, but I got no chance, so I’ll leave it. I’ll leave it to the professionals. Yeah, same here. 1:08:36 – Jeff PelizzaroAll right, my man. Well, it was great catching up with you. It’s great to have you on. I can’t wait to see the program that you put out I know it’s going to be great and to see all your Instagram posts that are that are coming up all those black and whites. But congrats on everything you’re doing. Sounds like things are going really well down there, and just just keep it up, thank you, man, thank you for helping me. 1:08:54 – Jeff FlaggThis is, this is always fun. Look forward to doing it again and again. Like all, congrats on all your, your success too. I mean 365. That’s, that’s a lot. That’s a lot. That’s a lot of episodes. That’s a lot of episodes, it’s a lot, it’s a lot. 1:09:09 – Jeff PelizzaroAnd we’re just getting started, baby, just getting started. Thanks, thanks, jeff. Thanks for listening to the 18STRONG Podcast and if you found this episode helpful, don’t forget to share with your friends. And, of course, go follow us over on Instagram at 18strong. Thanks again, we’ll catch up with you next week. Train hard, practice smart and play better golf. Transcribed by https://podium.page

Guest: Mitch Sadowsky (Top 50 Golf Fitness Pro, Aretas Performance)Host: Jeff PelizzaroEpisode Number: 364Podcast: The 18STRONG PodcastPartners: Linksoul, 1stPhorm Summary Join us as we reconnect with Mitch Sadowsky from Aretas Performance, who shares his invaluable insights on strength training and performance for golfers. We reminisce about his initial visit to the show and how his expertise has evolved, notably his transition from Florida to Wisconsin and the innovative work he’s doing in the realm of golf fitness. Listen in as Mitch breaks down the importance of kettlebell training for golfers, emphasizing how this tool is not just about strength but also about enhancing power, explosiveness, and the often-overlooked endurance aspect required for the long haul of a golf tournament. Our conversation also covers the seamless transition from physical therapy to performance training, a path increasingly traveled by patients eager to return to their peak athletic form. Mitch and I explore the benefits of collaborative efforts between therapists and trainers and how they work together to create targeted exercise regimens. For those athletes we can’t work with in person, we discuss the creative ways we keep in touch, ensuring their training remains on track. Furthermore, Mitch shares his insights on kettlebell exercises that are particularly effective in building the explosive work capacity needed for golf, while also ensuring safety and quality in training. To wrap up our chat, we delve into some of the lesser-known but equally critical aspects of golf training. We talk about the surprising benefits of rucking and nasal breathing, as inspired by the book “Breath,” and how these techniques can bolster back strength, core stability, and even mental clarity on the course. Whether you’re a pro, a collegiate competitor, or a weekend warrior, Mitch’s perspectives on training for golf will undoubtedly offer fresh ideas to enhance your game and overall health. Plus, we lighten the mood with personal anecdotes and favorites that add a touch of relatability to the discussion. Main Topics (00:04) Strength Training and Performance for Golfers Mitch Sadowsky from Aretas Performance discusses kettlebell training, rucking, and proper breathing techniques for improving golf performance and overall health. (10:40) Golf Training and Physical Therapy Transition from physical therapy to performance training, collaboration between therapists and trainers, remote training for athletes, and innovative techniques for golfers. (14:24) Explosive Work Capacity Training With Kettlebells Integrating anti-glycolytic training into golfers’ regimens for explosive work capacity and endurance, with specific protocols and stop signs for optimal performance. (23:45) Using Kettlebells Kettlebell training for golfers of all levels, focusing on shoulder stability, midsection control, and combining strength and mobility. (38:37) Improve Golf Mobility and Explosiveness Maintaining explosiveness in training for golfers over 40, building ‘brakes’ for speed control, and addressing overlooked foot mobility. (50:04) Benefits of Rucking and Nasal Breathing Rucking benefits golfers by improving strength, stability, and work capacity, while promoting nasal breathing and serving as a de-stressing cardio option. Follow Mitch Sadowsky Instagram: @mitchsadowsky Website: Aretas Performance Links Mentioned Breath Book The Power of Being Yourself Book Burn the Boats Episode Partners: LINKSOUL: For your 20% discount on LINKSOUL gear, go to 18strong.com/linksoul or click the logo above. 1st Phorm: Try any of the 1st Phorm products with FREE SHIPPING, go to 1stphorm.com/18strong.com (By using this link, you will be entered into our Monthly 1st Phorm Giveaway!) More Cool Stuff to Check Out: To continue the conversation and ask any questions you may have, head over to the 18STRONG Movement group on Facebook. 18STRONG Pro Shop (Get your 18STRONG gear!) 18STRONG Resources (All of the cool stuff we recommend: products, books, golf stuff, etc – and discount codes for the 18STRONG Crew) Want the full episode transcript? (click the “+” ????????) 0:00:04 – Jeff PelizzaroThe 18STRONG Podcast, episode number 364 with Mitch Sadowsky from Aretas Performance. What’s up guys? Welcome back to the 18STRONG Podcast, where we are here to help you build a stronger game, because we know that every golfer deserves to play better, longer. In this episode, I’ve got one of my good friends, mitch Sadowsky from Aretas Performance, coming on the show. He joined us many moons ago back in episode number 16 of the 18STRONG Podcast and we brought him back on because Mitch is one of the top strength coaches in the world of golf. He was down in Florida for a long period of time working with a lot of professional golfers and has now moved back to Wisconsin where he’s still working with golfers but a lot of other athletes as well as bridging the gap between physical therapy and general population, that gap where people are finishing up with either their injuries or the rehab and finding a way to get back into their sports, their athletics, or just into their life. In this episode we talk about a lot of kettlebell strengthening. Mitch is one of the top coaches that I know and he’s an expert in not just strength training and coaching but in utilizing different tools like kettlebells to help strengthen in a little different way than most think of when they think traditional strength training. We talk a lot about different ways to build strength and power and explosiveness. We even talk about the idea that golf is, yes, it’s, an explosive sport, but it’s also an endurance sport because it takes such a long period of time to play, sometimes over the course of days. Mitch has been kicking around some different ways of training for explosive capacity that we go into a lot of detail on. We talk about rucking, we talk about breathing, we talk about a lot of different ways that you can train whether you’re a professional golfer, a collegiate golfer or just a weekend warrior like most of us and how that’s going to help you improve not just your game but your overall health. So you’re really going to enjoy this episode with Mitch. Right after this, our partners over at Linksoul have been providing us with the best apparel for both on the course and off the course, from polos to t-shirts like the one I have on right now. Everything that they have is meant to be worn from the golf course to wherever you’re going next, whether that be casual, whether that be to the beach, there’s all different options over there. So go to 18strong.com slash Linksoul. You’ll get 20% off of anything in your cart over on Linksoul’s website. So again, 18strong.com, slash Linksoul for our favorite brand of apparel, for anything on the golf course and off. Now let’s get to this week’s interview, mitch Sodowski. Welcome back to the 18strong podcast. Thanks, man. 0:02:57 – Mitch SadowskyIt’s great to be back on. We were trying to figure out which episode it was. It was 16. Yeah, number 16. 0:03:02 – Jeff PelizzaroI think that was back in 2015 is when that originally was, and we had started the podcast right at the end of 14. And then you and I got to hang out at the World Golf Fitness Summit in October of that year out in California in Carlsbad. And then it was love ever since. 0:03:24 – Mitch SadowskyYeah, we were roommates, your statement that it was us, and I think, and Clint Howard and Nick Mueller, and Nick Mueller, yeah, and Lizzie Pals was there and we had the whole crew man. 0:03:39 – Jeff PelizzaroThat was pretty awesome. That was awesome. 0:03:41 – Mitch SadowskyYeah, yeah, for sure. Long time ago Back when I was a fish talk. That’s right, that’s right. 0:03:47 – Jeff PelizzaroBest fish tacos over in Carlsbad. That’s back when both you and I had dark, luscious beards. Now they’re big and white and gray. 0:03:56 – Mitch SadowskyWell, it’s luscious, just a lot whiter. 0:03:58 – Jeff PelizzaroThat’s true, very, very true. So, howard things man. So you are, you’re up in more of a cold climate. You were down in Florida when I originally first met you, working down at Lake Nona, and now tell everybody where you are and what prompted the move. 0:04:13 – Mitch SadowskyYeah, so you’re a little bit of a circuitous route. We moved from Orlando to South Florida and 2000, late 2017. Little bit for my wife’s job, but there’s some good opportunities down in South Florida for me. Got a chance to work with a lot of really really close friends. Bars Was at Coastal Performance, now for Fred with Brendan Hayden and was working a lot with Dr James Spencer, don Stanley, hugo Batero just really really solid crew of guys down there that we all worked really well together from the men’s side and performance side and what was able to refer out quite a bit. And then we started talking about a year ago, so our daughter’s three, our son’s a year and a half, and we started talking a couple of years ago about getting our family back up to Wisconsin where I grew up, where my parents are, my sisters. It just worked out. So, actually through Jason Glass, I met a couple of guys who went through his mentorship and we met. I met Nate and Scott, probably around 2016,. 17 down in Orlando and Nate’s the first guy that I see coming in to the hotel and he’s got a Milwaukee shirt on and Wisconsin people like magnets to each other. So then, hey, where’d you get that shirt. I grew up there. So he and I started talking. We both have the same volleyball background, the same volleyball community in Milwaukee where we grew up, and he was a DPT, owned his own clinic. And from your performance side, I said, dude, I don’t need a good reason to come up home, so let’s see what we can work on. And we, you know I was able to come up visit a couple of times do some performance clinics at their facility. And then, about two years ago, we started talking and said, hey, what are you doing for your performance program as your patients are moving out of PT? He said we don’t have anyone. I said, what would it look like if that was me? And he said, well, let’s talk. And last November we were up visiting family and it just got accelerated. I looked at my wife and said, hey, it’s time to get the kids back home. So I saw Nate. Actually, that night we were at a box game with some other friends and I met Nate at half time. I said, all right, dude, let’s do this, let’s build something really, really big and it fits our visions and our dreams. And we started moving towards it in January, I think or sorry, not January, I think July 12th, 14th, something like that, the movers came, packed our stuff up, we packed everything up with cars and drove on up, and so a little shorter background. So Nate made opened up his own. He was with Team Rehabilitation and he and another guy split off from that company to form Eratos physical therapy. We have two locations and so we opened Eratos Performance in July and we’ve been going since. 0:07:27 – Jeff PelizzaroAwesome. So is Eratos Performance. Obviously you worked a ton with golfers. I assume a lot of volleyball players too Is this. Are you working with those two specifically or a little bit of all the athletes around? 0:07:42 – Mitch SadowskyA little bit of everybody right now. It’s, you know it’s sliding people over from PT, whether they’re just Gen Pop to firefighters, tactical populations We’ve got I do have a lot of golfers. It’s got. We got a lot of high school baseball players, a lot of high school athletes that are coming off PT. So right now we’ve got a little bit of everybody and you know we’ll be probably doing a little bit more. Specialization in golf is the performance side continues to grow and I would say probably 60, 60 to 70% of my time is continuing to develop our golf performance platform. But right now we’re, you know we’re we’re making sure everybody gets taken care of. 0:08:27 – Jeff PelizzaroI love it. I always thought that there was a missing piece in the model of the medical system of you know, going from a physical therapy setting to then just going back out to real life, right? Or to real sport and not having that crossover, and it seems like it obviously it’s more prominent now than it was, you know, 10, 15, 20 years ago when you guys you and I kind of got into this, this field. But I still feel like there’s a lot of that missing or it’s not something that’s been perfected. And I also see that you guys are working so closely together. Are there physicians that that you guys work with pretty closely too, that are kind of steady referrals to you guys? 0:09:06 – Mitch SadowskyYeah, we’ve got we’ve got a number of orthopedic surgeons that we work with. We’ve got I would say mostly down there a couple other docs from outside that realm that we’re working with, that kind of believe in the not everybody needs therapy but everybody needs strength, that type of philosophy that they can say, well, okay, so if you know your knee is bothering you or whatever, you know you can go to Eratos. But we really want them to understand that. You know we follow the reset, reinforce, reload model through FMS, so that you know, once people start loading and creating a little bit more competency and whatever movement pattern we’re trying to fix, that they can slide fairly seamlessly over to the performance side, which is, you know, we try to make it as frictionless as possible. We want people to understand that. You know, whatever, whatever misconceptions they have about strength coaches and strength and performance, that it’s really not what they think. It actually does look like like really good PT and good strength training look like really good PT as well. You know we want to bring down as many barriers to entry as possible to get people, you know, living as well as possible. And you know, for our golfers, playing golf is in as high a level as possible for as long as possible. 0:10:39 – Jeff PelizzaroWith the general population. Clients, what percentage would you say tend to go from physical therapy over to you guys, at least for maybe, and what does it look like? Is it a few sessions? Is it then, you know, sometimes long-term programming and how many people actually take advantage of that? 0:10:57 – Mitch SadowskyIt’s growing right now. You know, the more I’ve been here, the more people that we’ve met and start to kind of see what we do with our client, with the performance side of things, and so we try to get them over. Or you know, our therapist has done a really good job. They all buy into what we’re doing. They will say, okay, so instead of working with the tech, you know why don’t you work with Mitch for about 15 minutes? You know, here’s what we’ve been working on with them. Mitch is going to show you a few strengthening exercises you can do to help, you know, to help with whatever we’re working on. And then that’s how we sort of force that relationship and try to create that entry point down there. 0:11:40 – Jeff PelizzaroVery cool. And then, as far as your I know because you had a whole stable of professional golfers, high-level golfers that you worked with down in Florida are you still keeping in contact and working remotely with them? And then, what does it look like in person at the facility in Wisconsin? 0:11:56 – Mitch SadowskyYeah. So I still have a number of my professional athletes that I work with. They’re on remote programming and then we’ll face time anywhere from one to two times a week and we do almost daily check-ins just to see how everything’s going. You know we’ve got a number of athletes. They’re professional athletes in Milwaukee and if they’ve come to see us for PT we’re reaching out to them to just say, hey, you know, whatever you need from us we’re happy to provide. So one of our collegiate athletes got drafted by the Dodgers this year. He’s still undergoing TJ rehab and you know he’s got some strength stuff that he does outside. But you know, we’ll consult. Just kind of, take a look at this program, say, okay, here’s what we would add in, here’s what we would. You know, kind of use the red light, green light, yellow light philosophy of stay away from, proceed with caution, or scream means go. So we’ll help them out with that. Just kind of be whatever they need whenever they need it. 0:13:01 – Jeff PelizzaroThe last time you and I had a chance to talk, which was really just a couple of weeks ago, you were kind of kicking around some different training styles that you were working with with some of your golfers. Had a lot to do with utilizing kettlebells and working on some power, also endurance kind of things, just with a little bit of twist compared to, I think, you know, what we think of traditionally when we think of golf and training and strength. Can you kind of dive into that and how has that progressed a little bit? What other insights have you come up with? 0:13:30 – Mitch SadowskyYeah. So you know, when we talked last, one of the things that I’ve been kind of chewing on for a couple of years and talking to people who are much smarter than me is, you know, we talked about golf being an explosive sport, and it is, but it’s also an endurance sport. Even if you’re riding a car, you’re still performing activity. For you know, four, four and a half hours, I got for a bit five hours, but you know it takes a while. You know, when you sway a golf club, you know let’s say you shoot 75, and so let’s say you putt yep, 30 putts, not a great putting round, so you still swung a club 45 times. That sounds to me a little bit more like like an endurance type of an activity as opposed to like a one-off activity. So we started looking at some ideas of creating explosive work capacity. So we took some of the ANA, the anaerobic atlactic protocols that Pommelsozoline and Strannikverse have been putting out and they’ve got a number of different resources. So we I started taking some of those principles and talked to some other people who actually work with endurance athletes and how to use kennel belles as their tool and put together a couple of programs working on those anti-glycolytic training protocols and using that with our golfers to create that explosive and that repeat explosive endurance. And yeah, we really like the results. You know, I think there’s some nice what the heck effects that come along with that style of training. But in terms of the explosive work capacity, you know, we just did a couple of little RPG things right, a perceived exertion, and see how they fell towards the end of round versus the beginning of the rounds. And you know I wouldn’t say there’s a huge like oh my God, this was incredible. I felt so much better. But there was a noticeable difference as the rounds went on, not necessarily just on Thursday, but how we felt on Saturday, how we felt on Sunday, and I just thought it was different and it was just a different way of looking at and how do we solve this problem? 0:15:58 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, so can you give us an example of what a training session might look like? How long does it last? What does it entail? 0:16:04 – Mitch SadowskyThere are a number of different protocols that we use. One of them is a push-up and Kennelbell Swing protocol, and that is it’s called 033B. And the way it works you hit a stopwatch and you hit start. As we hit start, it’s at zero. So you do five Kennelbell Swings as explosively as possible and then you get to rest until the next 30 seconds. When the stopwatch hits 30, you repeat, you repeat, you do five swings. When the stopwatch hits a minute, you do the same. When the stopwatch hits 130, you do the same. Once your Kennelbell Swings are done, you rest, just complete rest, until the stopwatch hits three minutes. At three minutes, you repeat the same thing, but you do that with push-ups. So you do five push-ups as explosively, as quickly as possible, making sure you still go through a full range of motion. You’re not shortening them up to get speed, but you do them explosively and you do the same thing three, three minutes. You do five, three, 30, you do five, four minutes. You do five, four, 30, you do five and then you rest. So that would be one cycle through. We’ll do anywhere from two to three cycles in a session, four at the absolute most. We will never go beyond four because you’re really gonna start running out of juice on your swings or push-ups. It’s a lot of explosive volume and so we’ll just go on to do some other things. We’ll hit some lateral lunges, we’ll do Turkish get-ups, we’ll do different row variations, we’ll still kind of do some suppressing variations. So we’ll hit the rest of our workout, but that’s our explosive phase and we’ll do that two to three times per week. It’s not an everyday type thing at all. So that would be one protocol. The second protocol and this is the one that we were working and we’ve done that with him. He loves, my guys love doing that and girls do it. The main one that we did to look at longer endurance was every 90 seconds, and every 90 seconds you would alternate 10 kettlebell swings and 10 push-ups. So again, we usually would do a timer. But because that’s 90 seconds, you can do an interval timer, you can do a stopwatch, but so you do 10 kettlebell swings, rest till 90 seconds, do 10 explosive push-ups same things, explosive as you can, full range of motion, and then you just repeat. So our goal is to get to about an hour. The primary goal is to get to 30 minutes and still stay explosive. Our we have a number of different stop signs that we’ll use. So one is getting any type of a hot spot on your hand or you feel like your grip’s starting to go. That would be one stop sign. Second is just loss in power. If you can’t get to 10, you can’t get to 10 explosive swings or you just notice that you just don’t have the same pop, that’s your stop sign. Because we’re out of explosive energy. We’re done, we’re just training something else at that point. Same thing goes for the push-ups. If you can’t get there, If you can’t do 10 push-ups, that’s fine. Just do fewer, however many explosive push-ups that you can do. You stick with that number and you resist the temptation to go more. So that would be our another stop sign. And the other is you can’t pass the talk test between bounce. So if I do my 10 kennel bell swings and then 90 seconds is up and I’m ready to go, if I’m still kind of huffing and puffing and can’t complete a sentence and talk conversationally, you can do it also with complex math like three digit addition. You’re done because you’re not recovering within that bell. So we’re just done, we move on. We go do some other straight stuff. 0:20:10 – Jeff PelizzaroAnd if you’re doing that for 30 minutes to an hour, that’s gonna be especially if you get up to an hour that’s gonna be your whole session for that day, most likely. 0:20:22 – Mitch SadowskyYeah, yeah, we’ll do some movement prep, some calisthenics, anything to help, just with a general warm-up. We’ll do some sense of swings to warm-up, we’ll do some sets of push-ups to warm-up and then, once we feel like we’re good to go, we go. Obviously, we don’t start in an hour. I think our first couple of sessions we started, I think we got to like 24, 25 minutes. It’s like I could go, but I feel like I’m starting to slow down a little bit, like all right, cool, great feedback, let’s move on. We got another one of these in a week, so we’ll always leave a little bit in the tank and we just move on. And then I think by the time after a couple of weeks, we got up to, I think, 40 minutes. 0:21:17 – Jeff PelizzaroAnd is that so? If you’re doing that once or twice, twice a week maybe? And then how? How many other training sessions and this is with one of your pro, when your pro golfers right? 0:21:28 – Mitch SadowskyYeah, usually with with my professional golfers. Well, I’ve got a couple of people that do five days, but you know those days vary greatly. You know, for most PGA guys and girl and LPGA girls it will probably do three days to four days. I give them a day or two often between. 0:21:47 – Jeff PelizzaroWe’ll still have some active recovery stuff to do so, but usually three, four is the the norm and if this was somebody that’s a little bit more you know, you’re your weekend warrior golfer, somebody that’s you know More trying to win their club championship or just just play better this coming year, but they want to make sure that they’re they’re, you know, doing a little bit more than the average Joe. How, how are you breaking that up for somebody like that? Are you also having them, encouraging them to do four or five days a week and just kind of piece it out differently? I think it’s always helpful to kind of know, I mean everybody what that looks like. 0:22:23 – Mitch SadowskyYeah, everybody that I sit down with. You know the fruit. You know they asked. You know they asked me how many times a week should I do this? I don’t know. How many times do you want to do like well, what do you, what do you recommend? What’s the best way? I really don’t know. Like I feel, I feel like that’s what I, you know what I do, stuff six days a week, but I know that’s not practical for everybody. So, you know, I would say no less than two for most people. You know just, you know kids life. You know if you can get four in, great, if we shoot for four, we get three. I’d say that’s perfect, as long as we’re doing something. You do something explosive like that. You know, three days, three out of seven days, I think you’re, you’re probably doing fine, awesome. 0:23:07 – Jeff PelizzaroWhen I think of you and and your training and your knowledge, I just immediately think kettle bells You’re. You’re one of the first guys that I’ve known that I would consider you know, like a an expert coach in utilizing the kettle bells as a tool for so many different athletes, different ways of training your body for explosiveness and strength and power. What is it about kettle bells that that you love, and what’s so unique about them that you’ve used that, as I Think of, maybe one of your primary tools when you’re working with your athletes? 0:23:40 – Mitch SadowskyYeah, probably is, or at least it just becomes that one. It’s really easy to sequester Myself and a client, you know, one small space, because we have everything in front of us from an eight kilo to a 48 kilo bell, so that’s 17 pounds to 106. There’s something for everybody within that, within that range. And you can I mean even with you know if you just take a good middling size bell, so like a 12 kilo or 16 kilo, which is 26 to 36 pounds, you can. You can get in a full workout for some rear full training session with just that one bell and you can hit everything. You can get loaded mobility, you can get strength, you can get power, you can get everything that you need and conditioning, you get everything you need with one bell. And I think the versatility of it Is something that that draws me to that, because we can, we can answer a lot of questions With that, with that one tool, and you know we don’t have to go searching around for things. And you know, one of the some of the feedback I get from show my clients when we write up, when we write a more varied program with More pieces of equipment, is why can’t do this at this gym because as soon as I leave the bench bench gets taken. Or soon as I leave this pulling machine, you know it’s gone as soon as I turn my back. So you know we use a kettlebell. We don’t necessarily have to deal with those those types of issues, we just grab a Mac, grab a bell and get to work. And then the second thing is just the nature of the bell. It’s a gym with a handle. So you know we can, we can do a lot of things with that one tool and you know, when that tool is used appropriately, we get we get really good results. 0:25:35 – Jeff PelizzaroI would say that when Most individuals think about a kettlebell, they think of kettlebell swings, maybe a couple. You know there’s a couple exercises, but obviously there’s a whole repertoire that you use water. What would you say are some of the staples that you have in? You know Almost every program that you devise, whether that be a young junior golfer all the way up to maybe even a senior golfer. 0:26:00 – Mitch SadowskyMan, so many like you just started one my brain with site face, I would probably say. Our typical ones that get into everybody’s program are Some type of lateral lunge, whether it’s a, whether it’s a low hold, a goblet hold or a single arm rack, goblet squats or a staple single-leg deadlifts, whether it’s a staggered stance or a true single-leg deadlift. I Think for most of my young Well, I wouldn’t say young I think everybody needs shoulder stability. So we do a ton of bottoms up, pressing for shoulder strength, shoulder stability, overhead position. You know, obviously kettlebell swings will do kettlebell cleans, we’ll do a lot of marching In types of different types of carries with the kettlebell. So we can get, you know, we can get a lot of high notes and really just sort of focus on the big six of Push, pull, hinge, squat, carry, some type of midsection work and get everybody in. 0:27:07 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, I’ve been watching your Instagram a lot lately and you know you’ve been talking a lot about utilizing them for core exercises and and non-traditional. You know, looking core exercises as most people think of your traditional Sit-up or even planks, things like that, but being able to utilize something like this in a whole different way to really help stabilize the midsection. 0:27:27 – Mitch SadowskyYeah, and I think, with when it comes to midsection work, I Think we tend to over complicate things quite a bit. You know, we look at. You know, can we, can we resist Rotation, can we resist lateral flexion, but can we control what we’re doing as well? So can we control rotation, can we control lateral flexion? And I think that’s that that’s really what we try to focus on, isn’t just the creation, but being able to control what we have. You know, I think with golfers, you know, I tend to take the, the WD 40 duct tape Type of an idea when it comes to midsection of is it moving and shouldn’t? If it’s not moving and it should, we use WD 40. If it’s moving and it shouldn’t, we use duct tape. So we kind of look at the midsection. Is that, you know, are we moving too much? Because we talk a lot about golf mobility and golf movement, but I’ve seen more golfers get hurt because they don’t, they can’t control the movement that they have, and I think, getting people to understand that that we need to work more controlling our movement than we do, just trying to get more, and once that happens, I think there are a lot of, there are a lot of good things that Follow that. 0:28:45 – Jeff PelizzaroI mean, I think that’s a huge point that is very much overlooked by Especially the general general population or people that are looking at exercises online or searching for themselves. They constantly think at least this has been my experience they come in and I need to, I need more rotation, I need to be more flexible, I need to, I need to move this further. I need to do more of this. But, to your point, most people can’t control the movement that they do have and and I believe that if they had control over certain parts of the body, the part that they want to move actually would likely move better. And I’ve seen you even utilize the kettle bells and different Strength tools to help facilitate that mobility, which is kind of counterintuitive. People don’t think strength and mobility as being, you know, working together in the same, in the same session. 0:29:38 – Mitch SadowskyYeah, I can’t remember who said it, and it sort of resonated with me a while back I think. I think a lot of people have said it, but you know people that we follow, like Mike Boyle, great me Burton, charlie Weigroth said it. You know, putting a weight in somebody’s hand oftentimes will clean up their squat, and so is that way, is it? Is it a resistance or is it an assistance tool? You see somebody who can’t squat past 90 and you wonder okay, well, we got. You know, do we work on ankle mobility? Do we work on hip mobility? Do we work at forced ability? Where you put a weight in their hand, it all of a sudden their squat cleans right up and it looks great. You like, wait a minute, we don’t work on any of these things. Maybe they just needed to figure out how to squat, how to load it. It’ll just get better immediately. Yeah, it doesn’t mean that we’re just gonna throw, you know, two wheels on somebody’s back on a bar and their squats gonna look great. But I think it’s a good starting point for them, where maybe we just need to load them a little bit more and Whatever hails them is probably gonna get cleaned up. 0:30:46 – Jeff PelizzaroDo you have any set parameters on any of the lifts, say like a goblet, squat or something of of what you’d like somebody to be able to To handle and get in through a full range of motion? Do you, do you set those kind of standards, or is it case by case basis? 0:31:00 – Mitch SadowskyWell, I think we always have. We always have some pre, what we would call prerequisites. You know I, I just by the nature of what we do, I don’t do a ton of back squatting. I think you can get a Lot of really good things just from a really heavy goblet squat and then you just build them up from there. You know I, if you really want a good challenge, pick up the beast, 106 kilo battle, get it up here and then goblet squat. You tell me you. Is that a good pre-requisite? I would probably say yes. So I think that’s one. I think for deadlifts, if somebody is not at a 1x body weight deadlift, I think getting them there is a good start and then giving them to either 1.5 or 2x body weight. But I think the idea of chasing that number can go sideways as opposed to let’s just keep building, we’ll keep progressing, we’ll keep loading and let’s see where we are. So again, that’s something that we’re looking at. You know competency and load, and what does it look like with how much weight you can handle. So, is there such a thing as too strong? No, is there such a thing as not strong enough? I would probably tend to say yes. Do those have parameters. Yes, does that come with it? It depends, yeah, it always does. 0:32:36 – Jeff PelizzaroYou said there’s. Is there anything such as being too strong? What do you think about some of the serious heavy lifting deadlifts? You know we’ve had Dr Stewart McGill on the show. We’ve had some people on the show that love going as heavy as possible with a deadlift. Dr McGill says it’s ideally not great, for the spine builds a lot of rigidity if you’re going too heavy. Where do you see that risk versus reward kind of come into play when it comes to something like a heavy deadlift? Or I know you mentioned that you don’t do much back squatting, so maybe deadlifts is probably the one to look at. 0:33:14 – Mitch SadowskyYeah, I mean one. You know we’ll look a little bit at some anthropometrics like what does somebody look like? What’s their femur like, what’s their tibial like, what’s their spine like, what are the ratios? That’ll dictate a little bit about what their deadlift looks like. But I think a lot of it is how do you handle the load? How much weight are we putting on you? If you can pull four wheels off the ground pretty easily, I don’t think that there’s anything wrong with that. If you’re really struggling to get four wheels off the ground, then maybe we need to back off a little bit. I tend to take a little bit of. Let’s look at percentages and what does 80% look like? What does 90% look like? Where do we need to live? We can live in some fairly reasonable way so that the technical proficiency is there, and then we can challenge you at lower reps where we don’t chase one RM. It’s a nice number, but I want a technical RM. What’s your three TRM? What’s your five TRM? What’s your 10 TRM look like? And then let’s work off of those numbers because everybody wants a one-rep max, just to pop the chest out and see. But I don’t think there’s a lot of carry-on. How well can you do something X amount of times, as opposed to how poorly can you do it once, because nobody’s PR is ever pretty. Everybody who I’ve ever seen get their max back, squat, front, squat, deadlift They’ve all looked like garbage. I want to see how well you can pull something off the ground a certain amount of times and then let’s talk, because that becomes work capacity. 0:35:10 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, and that’s really where I live too is I don’t really care how much you can lift one time, what can you do repetitively, what can you control? What can you move with speed when you need to move with speed and still do it well. So when you’re out on the golf course you can handle yourself and so we’re not hurting you. So you can’t get out to the golf course, first and foremost, yeah, I mean, the 45 year old doesn’t care what his 1 RM is. 0:35:36 – Mitch SadowskyYou want RM, a deadlift or anything for a 45 year old. They’re going to be feeling it for days. I’m going to go on a swing at golf club. They’re going to lay on the couch. You know days that I decide that I’m going to or I’m programmed a heavier intensity day. 0:35:54 – Jeff PelizzaroI feel it for a couple of days. 0:35:55 – Mitch SadowskyI love it. I love that feeling, but not everybody does. I can’t put that. On that, I think we can create adaptations in a way where we’re meeting our client where they are, so that they feel like they’ve gotten some work done, but it doesn’t feel like somebody blew a floghorn into their CNS. I think that’s a little counter into it. Most people who we would both see when they associate deadlift, they associate 400 pounds and somebody yelling and spitting and their face turns red and eventually they’re going to blow off their back. I’m like no, let’s teach you how to deadlift with really good form. Pick something heavy up off the ground and your heavy is not my heavy, but let’s get you picking something comfortably off the ground and let’s build from there, because most people are stronger than they think. We just got to get them to understand that it’s safe and here’s the reasons behind it and we just go. 0:36:58 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, I think that there’s many times where we underestimate ourselves in the capacity of what we can do in the gym. We get to a certain age us guys that are in our 40s and then into the 50s and assume that we should be starting to back off and not pushing ourselves quite as hard. But I think that when you do actually get in there and put yourself to the test, you realize, wait, I’m actually a little stronger and I’ve got a little more in the tank than I thought I did, which then is going to play out into what you’re doing when you go out on the golf course or whatever physical endeavor that you’re setting out for. 0:37:33 – Mitch SadowskyYeah, I think as we get north of 40, what I found, even for myself, is I can still go pretty heavy. I have to pay attention to I probably pay more attention to volume than intensity. I still like lifting heavy. I just have to pay attention to volume in my sessions or I’ll know that I got a lot of weight moved at a day. I’ll make some adjustments in that training for the next day. If I know that I’ve got a lot of work that I really want to play around with, I probably dial back a little bit in session day to day. But there are just some days where you know what, let’s put some ton of John on this old rig and let’s get it moving and I think the more that we load, the more we can create resiliency. And I think that for the over 40 crowd, creating better day-to-day resiliency is just probably one of the best things that we can work out. 0:38:38 – Jeff PelizzaroLet’s take a second to thank our sponsors over at 1st Phorm, and this week I want to highlight their Formula One post-workout protein shake. I use this thing pretty much every day after my workouts because, let’s face it, being here in the gym working all the time with clients putting on a podcast, it can sometimes be tough to get my protein in on a regular basis. And so I know that with the post-workout shake the Formula One, first of all, it’s fast acting. So right after your workout is a great time to get your protein in to help build your muscles, get yourself stronger and repair what you’ve done in the gym. But also, if you don’t know if you’re going to be able to get your protein in in your regular meals, it’s just a great way to make sure that you’re supplementing and hitting those marks. So be sure to go over to 1stPhorm.com forward slash 18STRONG to get your 1st Phorm Formula One protein shake, and everyone that enters through that link is going to be put into a drawing every single month for free 1st Phorm products. So, again, go over to 1stPhorm.com forward slash 18STRONG. What about for that crowd in regards to kind of what we were talking about before, the explosiveness and building that not just you know. Obviously, as we hit age 40, I think we tend to see that, you know, year by year by year, our speeds tend to decrease from a golf standpoint, but doesn’t have to necessarily. What are some of the things that you would recommend golfers look into doing or incorporating that help to build some more of that explosiveness, whether that be certain exercises or just certain techniques or different ways that you found to really help to build that up? 0:40:17 – Mitch SadowskyDon’t stop training explosively in the first place. I think that’s key. I think most people can just slow down a little bit, like they’ll lift weights, you know, maybe not do as many med ball slams, or they’re doing med ball slams, it’s just not with the intent that we would need. I mean, you’ve got to come out of your shoes max effort, break the ball, put a hole in the floor, you know anything, anything possible that’s that’s as explosive as possible. I think we need to do that more often and not conflate the idea of strength and conditioning. And there’s a reason, there’s an and in between, but we also have to understand that there’s an or as well. When we do something explosive, do it explosively and then just rest, hatch some downtime. Let’s not rush from one thing to the next to try to make it strength and conditioning all at once. You know, explosive work has its time, it’s got its place and let’s do that at the beginning of the workout, but do it as explosively as possible when you’re fresh and then let’s move on to our strength stuff and give it its due when you’re doing it. 0:41:36 – Jeff PelizzaroSomething that I’ve heard you talk about is also that’s really important when you’re trying to build speed is building your brakes as well and Learning how to handle that speed. What do you mean by that? 0:41:50 – Mitch SadowskyWell, I’m working on a deceleration. You know working. You know, if you work on mobility like mobility is its own session, you really want to create long lasting range of motion changes. There’s got to be some intense there as well, rather than, you know, just doing some quadruped T-spot rotations, thinking all of a sudden this is gonna help, this is gonna help me rotate more. It’s like no, I mean, you’re just sort of warming up through a range, but you know, creating changes in that end range it is its own mobility session. But then we have to go. Once we get that new raise, we actually have to learn how to access it, how to operate within that range. So we have a little bit more intense on on what we’re doing when we, when we build brakes no, like what we’re to loop this back around. I like what we were talking about earlier with core Not just gaining, not just using our midsection to create rotation, but to control the rotation, so that you know when are most people getting hurt. It’s not in their backswing, it’s in the finals here. Why? Because we have to do a better job of Controlling how far and how fast we go. So you know a lot of the. You know squats, legends, things like that. Those are gonna build bigger brakes for us so that we have the ability to control how fast we go. 0:43:17 – Jeff PelizzaroWhat are techniques to be able to do that, like? What are some of the things that you incorporate into Aside from just your, your typical squat lunge? You know the typical patterns. 0:43:28 – Mitch SadowskyI I think isometrics are awesome. I Don’t know too many of my clients that are like man great, we’re doing. I so holds today. They’re difficult, they’re challenging but by they provide a lot of big bang for your buck. There’s a lot of time under tension. There’s a lot of good hormonal responses to come from isos. There’s a lot of isometric that we use in our and from our PT side here. So I think those are good. Sometimes it’s just picking something heavy up being learning how to control that. I’d say those are probably the two, two easiest, lowest hanging pieces of three. 0:44:08 – Jeff PelizzaroWhen, when you’re looking at mobility on a lot of your golfers, where do you find some of the bigger issues? As far as you know, we talked about how everybody comes in and says they think they need mobility, they think they need more flexibility, but sometimes there are legitimate cases of areas that are tight or stiff or uncontrolled and not able to move. What are a couple of the ones that you know? We, I think we tend to think of the T spine, we think of the hips. Are there any other ones that you really see that we don’t really pay attention to? 0:44:39 – Mitch SadowskyWell, I think that I think the two biggest things for me are feet. What are your feet doing? And how many people are barefoot? How many people are walking around Letting their toes move, letting their feet move? That’s you know. That’s one I would say. The second one is breathing. We just get a lot of people who Breathe really, really inefficiently. You know, everything’s up into the shoulders and they breathe here instead of the rib cage being able to expand. I would say that the better you breathe, the better you move and the better your posture. And you know, when it comes to golf, your golf swing is going to be a reflection of your movement patterns, and median patterns are going to be a reflection of how what your rib cage moves, how well you breathe and what your posture looks like. So I think there’s you know there’s some really good benefits. You’re just cleaning those things up at the beginning and saying, okay, so it’s your way to adjust those things. Now let’s start laying a few other things on from there. 0:45:36 – Jeff PelizzaroI’ve also seen you highlight recently just even the, the lats, the lat length in A lot of the golfers, and you mentioned before that you do a lot of overhead stuff. You think it’s very important for for people to work on their overheads. How does the, how do the lats and what this tight is there? How does that impact a golfer and what does that look like in their golf swing and what does it look like when you, when you then help them improve that? 0:46:00 – Mitch SadowskySo one of the things oh for everyone that’s familiar with the TPI golf screen being able to control pelvic tilt and what your posture looks like. It’s set up how, where the lats attached through the lower back and the faster the lower back a Tight, short lat is going to give you that as posture. It’s going to pop your chest forward, it’s going to bring the lower back into that interior till. Everything along this side, along the lats, is going to be tight. That’s also going to affect being able to reach across their body. So that’s our lead arm being able to come across into the back swing, that’s the trail arm being able to reach, stay long, keeping straight arms through impact. So being able to have a back that moves better, having better lat length. We do test the overhead flexion position to check lat length as well. That because really really important for us. We know, for you know, we know what what swing faults are created through poor lat lengths and poor, poor set up posture. So I think that’s a it’s an under under appreciated standpoint. It’s set up and that’s also one of the reasons why we we address breathing so much as well as we can get a much more Neutral pelvis position, putting somebody in supine on their back, getting a more neutral pelvis and then getting them to breathe Efficiently from there, and I can clean up a lot, of, a lot of issues. 0:47:30 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, I’ve. I’ve really come to appreciate over the last couple of years and through you know, watching people like you and a lot of the other coaches that we’ve had on the show the importance of working on breath work for myself and with clients and how that it can impact even neurologically what you’re doing. You know the your breath has so much to do with the way that your body responds, how well you’re going to get into that motion and how well you’re going to utilize that mobility and it’s it’s really kind of opened my eyes to how much it impacts your posture and ultimately impacts your performance day to day. 0:48:05 – Mitch SadowskyYeah, there’s a. There’s a lot of really really good. Again, what the heck benefits of proper breathing mechanics? Just from oxygenation in the blood, how well we move, being able to toggle between sympathetic and parasympathetic just Americans, by nature, are Stuck in sympathetic overdrive. We don’t know how to toggle down. We can’t get in a parasympathetic when we need to. We can’t calm down. We have a harder time sleeping, like they’re just this cascading effect of Not being able to to control those two areas of our nervous system. And so that’s one. Yes, obviously sleeping is a huge part of recovery and, and you know, even just from breathing you can learn how to brace better. And when you learn how to brace, that’s going to affect our how we control our body at impact. If you have a really good ability to brace, absorbing a punch, we are able to strike the ball with Much less deceleration and inertia when you contact the ball, because this is for somebody that doesn’t know how to brace. So I think there’s a lot of really cool crossover things between breathing mechanics and and golf. I learned so much just from Reading the book, the book breath, by James Nester. There’s a lot of really really cool things in there, but I think everybody can benefit from yeah, that that book is. 0:49:38 – Jeff PelizzaroIt was a much better read than I anticipated to. You know, I was thinking it was gonna be like this very clinical kind of science-y based book. But he he’s actually a writer I think he was from the New York Times or whatever and tells it like a story. So I I’ve recommended that to some people and like really, I’m gonna read a book on breathing. I’m like, no, trust me, this is actually a good read. There’s there stories in there that you’ll appreciate. But that book completely opened my eyes as well. This kind of takes me back to our, our conversation a couple weeks ago when we were talking about, you know, the training that you were doing with the, the explosive capacity stuff. But then we were talking about Rucking. Are you still having some of you guys rocking, or? And do you do you rock? And for those that don’t know it, rucking is explain that to to the folks. 0:50:25 – Mitch SadowskyYeah, so I mean it’s. It’s pretty simple. You just load a backpack up or load a bag up, draw it on your back, go for a walk, go as far as you can is comfortable using. Can you know again, you don’t have to you load any pounds up into a pack all once. I you know, even if you start with 10, 15 pounds and just go for go for a walk, go, go for walk through nature if you have access to hiking trails or, you know, just go for walks through your neighborhood. There are a lot of good benefits to the bath for Backstrength course, stability. One of the things they talk about in the book breath that I started doing and then I’ll have my golfers to is nasal breathing only while rocking. So you can take just a piece of medical tape and put it across your mouth or just consciously put this which you’re telling us through to your mouth. You just breathe through your nose for the entire walk. It’ll feel kind of self-regulate how quickly you go, but you’re, you’ll get a lot of like again. I really like what the heck benefits, which are ancillary benefits, not the main one, but you just kind of go. Huh, I, you know I was focusing on this and this got better what the heck like. I wasn’t even trying to do that, but I’ve had them do that for a number of reasons. One, like I said, getting onto that sympathetic overdrive back into parasympathetic, learning how to breathe more expansively through the rib cage because better rib cage movement or better golfers, and then just loading up work capacity. So, yeah, I try to get my golfers, my athletes, to do that once a week. I try to do that a couple of times a week, whatever I can, just to get outside. 0:52:15 – Jeff PelizzaroI’ve come to love it as well. But I hadn’t thought about the, the nasal breathing, intentionally until Talking to you, and so I’ve really made it a point to do that on on my walks and, and you know, just trying to feel the expansion of the, of the abdominals and even the expansion into the lower back and into the side, and it really does make a big difference. Plus, like you said, the what the heck benefits of? Like focusing on your breathing Makes you focus less on all the other stuff going on in your head. It’s almost like a walking meditation, which has been really, really Special, I think, and I think that so many people can benefit from just going for a long walk, maybe throw a little weight on on their back, as opposed to doing some of the crazy Cardio stuff that we tend to lean on, where we’re increasing the stress on our body while trying to get that movement and activity. Going out and doing something along these lines where you’re actually almost de-stressing a little bit while getting that activity, can be massively beneficial. 0:53:13 – Mitch SadowskyRight, right. And most people, when they’re on a cardio, a piece of cardio equipment, they’re they’re adding more stress and actually using it to To de-stress or or get the end up a better, better state. So you know I, if it’s an opportunity for them to toggle down, I’m all for it. 0:53:34 – Jeff PelizzaroWhat it would have your pro golfers thought of it. Did they look at you a little crazy when you first suggested A little bit yeah. 0:53:42 – Mitch SadowskyYeah, it’s like what you just want me to. You know, we we start off with with silver bar. It’s like an active recovery day where we do a lot of calisthenics, a lot of a lot of ground based movement for about 15 minutes and then it’s like load up a backpack, little 20 pounds in there and just go for a walk, start, start out at a half hour and then let’s, let’s build up from there and like why do you want me to do that? That’s all we’re doing, and go for a walk. 0:54:09 – Jeff PelizzaroNow you’re actually in a landscape where you have some, some hills, as opposed to Florida where you’re like walking through it’s not all flat. 0:54:16 – Mitch SadowskyYeah yeah, we have a lot more hills here than in Scottson. Awesome, there’s Luke Holder here too. It’s a. There’s a 40 and rainy here Absolutely my favorite weather. 0:54:26 – Jeff PelizzaroYou know what. There’s something, there’s something to be said to loading up a pack, getting your stocking cap on bundling up a little bit. You just feel a little bit more like a man when you go out in the cold and you’re doing it too. 0:54:37 – Mitch SadowskyOh well, yeah, I mean, that’s why we’re out here, to keep the face warm. 0:54:40 – Jeff PelizzaroThat’s right, that’s right. 0:54:43 – Mitch SadowskyAnd I had to get to blend into snowstorms. 0:54:47 – Jeff PelizzaroAll right, my friend, we’re gonna. I know that we asked you these questions, or versions of these questions, but this was you know how many years ago. So we’re gonna, we’re gonna re ask, so just to see if any, any answers have changed. So, first of all, caddy Shack, or happy Gilmore. 0:55:01 – Mitch SadowskyOh, caddy Shack, that’s not even a question. 0:55:05 – Jeff PelizzaroAll right, if you could pick a walkup song to the first T-Box. What’s, what’s your walkup song these days? 0:55:14 – Mitch SadowskyWell, it should be and always will be. Hell’s Bells by ACGC. 0:55:18 – Jeff PelizzaroThat takes me back to pledging for my fraternity. So I get like kind of like makes the hairs on my arms stand up a little bit, but great call. 0:55:25 – Mitch SadowskyIt’s what, it’s what, yeah, I mean it’s what. You know when, when Trevor Hoffman would come out like you just know, when you have that walkup song or that walkout song, you know that guy has his song and it’s about to, it’s about to be on, like, to me it’s just Hell’s Bells, awesome. 0:55:45 – Jeff PelizzaroAll right. Is there a book that you like to recommend to people that’s had a big impact on your life, and that could be fitness golf life? Whatever it is that you like to recommend. 0:55:55 – Mitch SadowskyYeah, two books. One of them, one of them one of my clients down in South Florida right, it’s called the Power of being Yourself by Joe Clemari PLUMERI. It is an outstanding, outstanding book, joe’s. Joe’s probably the most successful person that nobody’s ever heard of, except a lot of people have heard of him. He’s got a lot of commencement speeches on YouTube that are just I mean, he’s awesome. Joe goes hard. 80 years old, he’s up trained from six to 645 every morning. He’s just an animal, in fact. I think I don’t know if he listens to podcasts. He should. Andrew Riley works with him at Integrative Exercise in the Hamptons, andrew works with him in the summers and I would work with Joe at the Wears. Joe’s just I mean, working with him is like getting your MBA every morning. He’s just an incredible human with an incredible story. So that book is an awesome listen and read. So I think everyone should get that. The second is Burn the Boats by Matt Higgins, who the book just came out. It’s in the last year. So I think for everyone that gets stuck into the what, if or if I could only do this or if I could only do that, you just have to take this step. That’s why we moved to Wisconsin. We left everything that we had in Florida, which was a line. We left it all behind. You can’t be successful if you leave yourself out. You’ve got to burn the boats and go. There’s no plan B, there’s no turning back, no one’s come to help you. You just have to go and there’s no failure, because it’s not an option. I think those two books are probably the most impactful ones that I’ve read, and they’re probably more resources than they are books. 0:58:00 – Jeff PelizzaroFantastic. I’m putting both of those on my two read lists ASAP and we’ll link those up in the show notes as well, just so everybody listening can go there. All right, if there’s, if you could go play a round of golf with anyone in the world past, present, celebrities, famous people, whoever who are you taking to play? 0:58:22 – Mitch SadowskyJust use the joke answer because I like a little chaos in my life. But Brooks, Bryson and Phil but in all honesty, past, present, future, the only people I want to golf with are my dad, my two grandfathers that have passed. My dad was one of the reasons why we moved back up. I wanted to get the kids closer to him. But family is everything to me. I was really close with both my grandfathers and I would give everything to be able to have another four or five hours of life with them. So dad and grandfathers Fantastic. 0:58:59 – Jeff PelizzaroAll right If we could fuel up the 18STRONG jet and we’re taking you anywhere you want to go. You could take grandpas and dad. You guys can go play any course in the world. Where are you going to go If we said, mitch, we’re leaving tomorrow? Where are we heading? 0:59:15 – Mitch SadowskyShooting Star. Go see my boy Ben Pollan up there, jackson Hole. Shooting Star, I love mountains, I love mountains and I love golf and I don’t think there’s any better place to do that. So I’m going to give Ben and Shooting Star a little shout out. 0:59:30 – Jeff PelizzaroSweet, I’ve never heard of it. I’m looking that up immediately. Have you been there already? 0:59:36 – Mitch SadowskyI’ve not. I just get to see Ben’s pictures on Instagram and then shoot her messages. 0:59:41 – Jeff PelizzaroLovely, all right. Well, we’re going to have to go follow Ben, which leads into our next question Is there a social media account that you think the 18STRONG crew should go follow and that you’ve been digging lately, whether that’s golf or fitness, or makes you laugh, whatever it is? Who should we go look at? 0:59:59 – Mitch SadowskyA friend of the show, allie Gilbert. I think Allie does an amazing job of making men’s health fun, relatable, accessible and just bare bones, no holds barred. She tells it like it is. I think more men need that. We shouldn’t be afraid of men’s health issues, and Allie just does an amazing job of making it white sized and explainable and understandable for most men. So I think that’s a really good one. And then just something that I’m really passionate about is following regenerative farmers of America. I’m really big on regenerative farming practices. I think we have a huge problem in our country with corporate farms and we need to support our local farmers wherever we are. They’re farmers in every city and every state. I think we need to do a better job of supporting them. Buying from local farm stands, buying your meat from the farmer that slaughters their own cattle. I think it’ll do an enormous job helping our environment, helping our societies. We don’t have nutrient-dense food anymore. I think we need to do a better job in that realm of life, and it’s something that my wife and I are really passionate about. So go check out regenerative farmers in America and support them. Buy your meat from them, not your big grocery stores. Go to your local farm stands whenever you can. 1:01:37 – Jeff PelizzaroAwesome, I love it. I have an uncle who is up in northern Missouri and he’s running his father-in-law’s cattle ranch and we get most of our meat from up there, so it couldn’t second that more Awesome. 1:01:51 – Mitch SadowskyIt tastes better, it’s better for you, and if I can help a farmer live a little bit better life rather than a CEO, I’m totally cool with that. 1:02:03 – Jeff PelizzaroMan and people don’t realize how tough farming is, especially now the small farmer, and by small. A couple thousand acres is small, right, it’s unbelievable. So very cool, all right. Last thing what’s the best piece of golf advice that you’ve ever received? 1:02:23 – Mitch SadowskyBe a goldfish. We all live for that one shot, just that one ball that we just absolutely smoke and it just feels pure off the face and most people say, why can’t I do that every time? Be a goldfish, just enjoy it. Don’t worry about the shanks, don’t worry about the one you hit in the rough, don’t worry about the one you lost in the water. Just be a goldfish, go hit the next ball. Just go make that next shot a little bit better. 1:02:58 – Jeff PelizzaroGreat advice. Mitch, my friend, where can everybody go follow you and see everything that you’re doing? You’re doing a great job putting a lot more out on social media. We’ve been reposting a little bit. We’ve got to get better reposting some of your stuff but where can they go find you? 1:03:13 – Mitch SadowskyAt Mitch Sudowski, mitch SADOWSKY and at Eritos Performance. A-r-e-t-a-s Performance on the IG for both. 1:03:24 – Jeff PelizzaroAwesome Buddy, can’t thank you enough for coming on sharing your wisdom with us, and hopefully we’ll be seeing a lot more of you on the 18STRONG page. I think we’ll have a few projects put together in the near future that people can look forward to. 1:03:40 – Mitch SadowskyFor sure. Thanks for having me on again. This is awesome. Always love our chats on and off the ether and always look forward to it, man. 1:03:49 – Jeff PelizzaroHopefully soon it’ll be in person, maybe to another World Golf Fitness Summit. 1:03:53 – Mitch SadowskyI know we’re driving distance now. 1:03:55 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, for sure. All right, buddy, we’ll talk to you soon All right, dude, talk soon. 1:03:59 – Mitch SadowskyThanks, jeff, Appreciate you. 1:04:03 – Jeff PelizzaroThanks for listening to the 18STRONG podcast and if you found this episode helpful, don’t forget to share it with your friends. And, of course, go follow us over on Instagram at 18strong. Thanks again, We’ll catch up with you next week. Train hard, practice smart and play better golf.

Guest: Jeff Lovecchio (Retired Prof Hockey Player, Performance Coach)Host: Jeff PelizzaroEpisode Number: 363Podcast: The 18STRONG PodcastPartners: Linksoul, 1stPhorm Summary Join me as I welcome Jeff Lovecchio, a retired professional hockey player turned esteemed performance enhancement coach, to share a wealth of knowledge that transcends the ice and influences athletes from various sports, including golf. Jeff’s unique insights into the intricacies of hockey training, which includes balancing gym routines with the demands of ice play, offer invaluable advice for avoiding overuse injuries and keeping the main sport in sharp focus. We also explore the rigorous life of professional athletes, delving into their schedules and travel, and how these factors affect their training and overall performance. Listen in as Jeff recounts his personal journey from a promising young hockey talent to a transformative coach, shaped by the trials of a severe concussion and the consequential shift in his playing style. His story of resilience, determination, and the transition to coaching offers a compelling narrative that emphasizes the role of mentorship in athletic development. Jeff’s approach to training, which revolutionized traditional methods, underscores the need for functional, sport-specific regimens that improve balance and strength directly related to performance on the ice. Wrapping up our conversation, Jeff and I tackle the broader topics of goal setting, self-talk, and the importance of fostering a positive mindset. We discuss how defining clear objectives and engaging in positive affirmations can drive success, both in sports and life. Moreover, Jeff’s mantra “give more, be more,” which he promotes through his social media and website, invites us to consider the profound impact of generosity on personal growth. Whether you’re an athlete looking to enhance your game or someone seeking motivation and inspiration, this episode offers a wealth of strategies and stories that will leave you energized and ready to tackle your goals. Main Topics (00:02) Performance Enhancement and Mentoring for Athletes Retired hockey player Jeff Lovecchio shares expertise in fitness, nutrition, and recovery for athletes, discussing the challenges and demands of professional sports. (07:32) Hockey Career and Missed Opportunities A professional athlete’s journey from playing hockey overseas to revolutionizing training methods, his early start in hockey, and his interest in fitness. (11:50) Building as a Coach After Injuries A hockey player overcomes a severe concussion to continue his career, adapting his playing style and becoming a successful coach. (17:33) Importance of Athletic Training and Health Nature’s lessons in sports: discipline, self-investment, parental support, and holistic fitness for all ages. (28:35) Revamping Training for Hockey Performance An athlete’s journey to improve on-ice performance through functional training, including unilateral exercises, visual and vestibular work, and spatial awareness. (39:00) Improve Sports Skills and Find Motivation Skill and technique, position-specific power development, individualized coaching, and sustainable fitness routines for New Year’s resolutions. (43:02) Goal Setting and Self-Talk Importance Reverse engineer goals, establish a strong ‘why’, use daily affirmations, and practice positive self-talk for success. (48:42) Hockey Career, Leadership, Starting Company A hockey player’s journey, commitment, community support, personal growth through hardship, and transition to entrepreneurship. (52:50) Give More, Be More Adopting the mantra “give more, be more” and promoting it through personal and professional endeavors, emphasizing the importance of positive contributions and meaningful connections in a society that is becoming increasingly disconnected. (01:01:04) The Importance of Reading and Goals Mindset, books like “The Secret” and “Relentless Solution Focus,” dream golf and hockey foursomes, and social media recommendations for personal development. Follow Jeff Lovecchio Instagram: @jefflovecchio Website: GMBM Links Mentioned The Secret Book Relentless Focus Solution Book Episode Partners: LINKSOUL: For your 20% discount on LINKSOUL gear, go to 18strong.com/linksoul or click the logo above. 1st Phorm: Try any of the 1st Phorm products with FREE SHIPPING, go to 1stphorm.com/18strong.com (By using this link, you will be entered into our Monthly 1st Phorm Giveaway!) More Cool Stuff to Check Out: To continue the conversation and ask any questions you may have, head over to the 18STRONG Movement group on Facebook. 18STRONG Pro Shop (Get your 18STRONG gear!) 18STRONG Resources (All of the cool stuff we recommend: products, books, golf stuff, etc – and discount codes for the 18STRONG Crew) Want the full episode transcript? (click the “+” ????????) 0:00:03 – Jeff PelizzaroThe 18STRONG Podcast, episode number 363 with Jeff Lovecchio, retired professional hockey player and performance enhancement coach. Hey, what’s up guys? Welcome back to the 18STRONG Podcast, where we’re here to help you build a stronger game, because we believe that every golfer deserves to play better, longer. This episode is going to be a great one for you. We have Jeff Lovecchio on. He’s a retired professional hockey player and I know that sounds a little strange to have a hockey player come on a golf podcast, but, as you’re going to see, with Jeff, he’s much more than just a hockey fitness coach. He is a mental game coach. He is a mentor to a lot of the athletes that he works with, and it’s all about not just the fitness side but the nutrition, the recovery, the mobility, the stability, working on all of the different pieces of the game to train more like an athlete, whether you’re a hockey player, whether you’re a CEO or whether you’re just somebody looking to train and become the best version of yourself in the gym and outside of the gym. So you’re going to really enjoy this episode with Jeff. We share a lot of the same philosophies when it comes to training and his Instagram account has been very influential in some of the things that we do at 18STRONG and the way that we train, the way we work on mobility and the way we work on getting the golfers moving the way we want. So stay tuned. Right after this, our partners over at Linksoul have been providing us with the best apparel for both on the course and off the course, from polos to t-shirts like the one I have on right now. Everything that they have is meant to be worn from the golf course to wherever you’re going next, whether that be casual, whether that be to the beach, there’s all different options over there. So go to 18STRONG.com slash Linksoul. You’ll get 20% off of anything in your cart over on Linksoul’s website. So again, 18STRONG.com slash Linksoul for our favorite brand of apparel for anything on the golf course and off. Now let’s get to this week’s interview,…Jeff Lovecchio. Welcome to the 18STRONG podcast, man. 0:02:19 – Jeff LovecchioHappy to be here. This gym, this office, everything’s very, very cool. We’re excited. 0:02:24 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, we’re slowly but surely getting the studio set up and just kind of getting it a little fancy here. Yeah, it’s fancy. 0:02:29 – Jeff LovecchioIt’s super clean. Man, I love it here. Well, it’s kind of brand new. Yeah, everything’s dope, don’t stop, you might fall off the wall. 0:02:37 – Jeff PelizzaroIt looks awesome. I love it. So it sounds like you got a bunch of hockey guys back in town for the winter break and everything, so you’re running like a madman, right now. 0:02:44 – Jeff LovecchioYeah, yeah, guys are home. I got some guys that are home for a week, some of them are home for three days, some of them are home for two weeks, kind of depending on the school or the team if they’re playing juniors. So just trying to get everybody in and feeling good so they go back to their second half confident and ready to go. 0:02:59 – Jeff PelizzaroSo what does that look like in the gym right now? Is it like teams coming in? What’s the flow like over there? 0:03:06 – Jeff LovecchioBasically it’s just like my. I have a couple of different like businesses, I guess within my own business it’s like subheadings, I guess, I would say. But these are all like my off-season guys. They’re the guys who in the off-season for anywhere from four to six months, depending on what league and when they get home. They’re with me four days a week and we go to battle every single day and that’s where in the off-season, you really get your body like not only healthy, but like you try to make performance gains and stuff like that. You work on your skills on the ice. I only do off the ice now because I’m in there all day. Excuse me, but during Christmas break hockey’s kind of it’s kind of crazy, like it’s not like other sports. I was just explaining this to at the doctor’s office. I was just at like, if you play golf, football, basketball, lacrosse, any of these other sports, you train on ground, you play on ground, yeah, and hockey you train on ground, you play on ice. Walking and skating are not the same. Running and skating are not the same. So, like in season, when they’re doing all this athletic stuff on the ice, I actually peel back like the athleticism in the gym because I want the main thing to be the main thing. I don’t want to ever take away from the main thing. Also, you know these guys who play hockey now in juniors you’re playing so many games, they practice so much. So I also have to think about, like, what empty buckets are they not hitting? I want to fill up those empty buckets and I don’t want to overflow. The buckets are already getting More strength, you know, like prehab mobility core, making sure they’re healthy, and more GPP. Honestly, it’s way more general because what they’re doing out there is so specific. I don’t want to double up on the specific and then create overuse, injuries or anything like that, you know. 0:04:52 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, yeah, that’s a good point. We see that a lot with the golfers too. Like golfers, all they’re doing rotation all day long, right, and so when they go in the gym a lot of people think, oh, I got to rotate, I got to rotate. It’s like no, actually you need to do the other stuff you get stronger and that makes a ton of sense that they got to come in and they got to kind of reset and do a lot of the things that they’re not getting when they’re playing. What does the schedule look like, because you’re a former professional hockey player, when you guys are traveling or when you were traveling, what does that look like? And what’s it look like for these guys as far as, like, practice time, what are they doing workout wise, on the ice or on the road. 0:05:27 – Jeff LovecchioIt really depends on the organization and if they and pro is so much different than college and everything up to pro is very structured for everyone on the team. For the most part you get to pro and you know I’ve been retired, for this is my seventh year being retired at. My last year was 17, 18. But, like, when I got to pro it was like pretty much you’re on your own, like the game you get into a city practice tomorrow is at 10am, the game’s at seven. You got to be at the rink at nine and five and then after that I do do whatever you want. Really. Yeah, you know you have to work out stuff, especially at the higher levels, right, some teams will do some like workout stuff on the road. It’s not a lot of workout stuff, but now the NHL signed a deal with anchor anchor two years ago, so every NHL away locker room has to have two of those. So I would work out after games because, like, you can only get so much working out during the week because games are kind of like all over the place. So after a game, if you don’t have a game the next day, a lot of guys will do like something like bands or body weight If they’re on the road. I always had like a bag inside my hockey bag with bands and sliders and just so I could rip out like 12 minutes and then I looked at it as okay, like I just played the game. I do the workout immediately after, when all that’s only one thing my body has to recover from, instead of waking up on an off day and then going in and training. Well, now it’s like recover from this, I’m tired. I’m tired of recover from this. So I try to stack them whenever I could. So I think pro hockey guys work out in the week when it makes sense and then, after the last game of the weekend or whatever, a bunch of guys will put in at least a little bit of work. 0:07:11 – Jeff PelizzaroSo did I hear that when you were playing pro hockey, you started training your teammates. 0:07:17 – Jeff LovecchioYeah, oh yeah, man. I became the unofficial strength coach on almost every team I played on in Europe. So I played three years in the US. I had a year I was injured. I missed a whole first year of my NHL contract with a concussion. Well, we’ll get to that. Yeah, yeah, that was awful. And then I went overseas and so after my third year pro, the summer going into my fourth year, I started my training company here in St Louis and then I was already training myself. I trained myself my whole pro career and I just started training a couple of kids and then all the teams in Europe European people probably won’t like to hear this, but at least every team I played on and all the guys I played with that were on the national teams of the countries I played in. Their training was so far behind, like what I think, where it should be, very like 1980s, like kind of a mixture between powerlifting and bodybuilding. It’s like you don’t do that, you know, like that’s really not helping that. So guys would see me and I’d win testing. Everywhere I went, it always isn’t the best shape I had to be. I wasn’t skilled enough not to so like I had to be, or else I would have been there. And then they you know I don’t like what we’re doing, I’ll work out of Vex. And then all of a sudden, everybody’s working out with me and then the coach is like, all right, you just write the workout, so I just started. And then I’d become friends with the strain coaches and talk to them about my philosophies. We go back and forth. I was never like pushing it on them, but it was always. It always turned out like a month in All right, we’re going to do what Vex is doing. 0:08:50 – Jeff PelizzaroSo give me, give us a little background. I mean, I know your story but for the people listening watching so you’d left home at like fit age 15 to go, and that’s kind of how hockey is right. Yeah, I mean you’re probably surprised. Did you ever think you’d be on a golf podcast, by the way? 0:09:05 – Jeff LovecchioNo, obviously because I’ve never golfed, I’ve never done a full round of golf and I’ve only hit the ball a few times. And funny, now I look back, I wish I would have learned it because I know that it would have helped me be a better athlete. And the mental side of golf I think that helps any human being at anything they want to do. You hit a crappy shot. You can’t let that crappy shot affect you. You’ve got to calm down, re-center, focus up, hit the next shot, make sure that’s good. The past is the past. You can’t change that. That would have helped me immensely in my sports psychology journey of being a pro athlete. So I wish I would have. But we would leave the gym when I was training in like juniors and college, even pro, and like all the guys were training with me, whatever, like they’d go golf and I’d either do more in the gym or I would be like I just sweat for three hours. I’m going to go take a nap, you’re going to go sit outside at 100 degree weather in St Louis. But looking back, I wish I would have learned. 0:10:00 – Jeff PelizzaroWell, yeah, because several of the guys like Wides, I know like those guys they go work out in the summertime, go work out, go play golf and they’re all sticks too. 0:10:07 – Jeff LovecchioThey’re all good. Wides is good. Freddie Roushoff I got a guy who’s like 6’7, 240 and I think he’s almost a scratch golfer. 0:10:15 – Jeff PelizzaroOh my gosh. 0:10:17 – Jeff LovecchioI’m going to go for another really good golfer. A lot of hockey players are good golfers, probably because the swing is very similar, where the power is coming from and things like that. I think, yeah, I wish I would have golfed man, but I’m going to get into it. 0:10:29 – Jeff PelizzaroI might be hitting you up for lessons. We’re going to test that swing out today a little. You saw the pit over there, oh God it’s going to be terrible. So back to your start. You left home at 15, went to Chicago. I went to Chicago to play midgets. 0:10:45 – Jeff LovecchioThat’s before junior. So for anybody who doesn’t know, basically to get a scholarship to play hockey, you go from amateur hockey to junior hockey, which is going to be probably not in your hometown I mean, there are some people who play in their hometown and then you get your scholarship out of there to then go to college. So like football, baseball, basketball, golf, it’s like high school into college. A lot of players in hockey have to take one or two gap years where they’re playing this junior hockey before they get to college, and I had. So I went to Chicago to play midget hockey when I was 15 and 16, but it was one year, and then I went and played in the USHL in Omaha, nebraska, for three years before I got my scholarship to Western Michigan. 0:11:26 – Jeff PelizzaroAnd then so the pro career comes in three years at Western Michigan right, and then, drafted by the Bruins, I signed with them as a free agent. 0:11:34 – Jeff LovecchioSo I wasn’t drafted. So I was able to sign with any team in the NHL if they wanted me. Obviously I had a really, really good sophomore year in college and a lot of teams in the NHL wanted to sign me. I decided to stay one more year and then I wound up signing with the Bruins and left school. 0:11:51 – Jeff PelizzaroAll right, so tell us a little bit about what happened that first year. Sounds like you’ve had multiple injuries issues. So tell us a little bit about that story, because I think that really leads into, in my personal opinion, just watching you from afar, into like, really what has helped build you, into the person, the coach that you are today? 0:12:09 – Jeff LovecchioYeah. So the way that it works for almost every guy who signs in the NHL from college, almost all those guys. Now some guys will go straight to the NHL for some games. I have a couple who have done that of my clients. But usually they put you in the AHL for the rest of that season to get your feet wet, to learn what Pearl Hockey’s like, just kind of get introduced into the systems so that you’re ready to go for the first real year of your contract the next year. And so I did that and because I was at Western and we didn’t have a good year that year, we were bounced into the playoffs right away. I signed with the Bruins and I was on a plane two days later. I went to Boston, got testing, done all that, signed my contract, go down to Providence, rhode Island, which is only like 45 minute drive, and I finished the season there. And I was there for like three or four months because we had the best team in the AHL ever at that point. They was the most winningest team in the regular season ever and I got to play a pretty, pretty significant role as a new guy coming up and I did really well and they’re like you know, I really like you. You know you’re going to play in the NHL one day, all this stuff and I go home in the summer to start my training and I just had like a freak accident and like practice basically was skating full speed, I went to stop. There were bubbles all over the ice because this crappy ice rink in town the ceiling dripped and there’s these like massive bubbles and I don’t. I remember vaguely being on the ice that morning and being like guys, we got to like cut the bubbles out so we don’t hit them and I guess I hit one going full speed head first of the boards, unconscious. I lost, I lost over 12 hours on my memory that I have nothing, zero memory, almost zero memory whatsoever from um. I lost memory from the day before and uh, so that happened like end of June I want to say it was mid, mid June, maybe beginning of July and I didn’t play a real game in hockey again until a full year. And then, like end of September the following year, yeah, I thought I was never going to play again. You know I could have taken insurance payout that was like really high for you know, just really not even playing yet and they gave me 10 games to decide. Like you get, you can play nine games, but if you play your 10th game this is the insurance company. You’ll never be covered for concussions again and you obviously won’t get this payout. If you take the payout, you can never play pro hockey again. Um, and that’s a really tough decision after sitting You’re how old at this time I was, I was probably 23. And so, and it was like 400, 450 grand, tax free, like into your bank account and uh, really hard decision, just as far as I haven’t worked out. Like for eight months six to eight months I didn’t work out. I Lost all my muscle mass because I was not eating, because I was worried about getting fat, and then if I came back it would take longer for me if I gained a bunch of weight, just like all this stuff and and but me, who I am. I remember that the insurance guy who called actually was a former NHL player Captain, one of my pro clients, later on, mm-hmm in my business because his dad’s played in for the Blues. He’s the one who called me and I remember where I was in the rink and he’s like okay, jeff, like you got a game tonight with the Bruins, you’ve got nine more games, or eight more games. If you play the tenth game, you’ll not be covered. If you want to retire now, we’ll give you this money. Blah, blah, blah. And before even finish a sentence, I was like nope, I’m trying. And he’s like you don’t want to ask your doctors your pain? Nope, you want to ask your pet no agent? Nope, I’m trying and work my whole life not to try. Yeah, and although my career was different than it would have been, because, like it was always in my head, I was always thinking about it, I had to play just slightly differently of a game because I used to play kind of recklessly and kind of just like Do whatever I had to. I had to kind of change my style, but it did allow me to get paid to play hockey all over the world for nine more years after that and I am who I am today because of that and I’m a better coach because I played in different countries and had to get around cultural, language barriers, ideological barriers and so all of that stuff that I that I Went through after because of that is why I’m where I am, where I am today, why I am the coach I am today, why I approach things from a different lens maybe than other people. So you know, I always say to people if you shoot for the stars and you land on the moon, it’s a pretty good place to be. Yeah, and I think that’s kind of what happened to me. 0:16:38 – Jeff PelizzaroEverybody that. So you know you’re here in St Louis, I’m here in St Louis and we have several mutual friends and every this is the first time we’ve ever met sat down with each other. But everybody that I’ve talked to you has said, like Jeff just comes in and he’s just like a force to be reckoned with. Like his Attitude, his mentality is different than any coach you’ve ever worked with and and I think that that just speaks to you know, like the experiences that you’ve had and the way that you train and what I’ve seen you do online it’s really, really impressive to see how you work with not just the pro athletes but the kids too. So I want to talk a little bit about the, the youth hockey players that you work with and Just the mentality you have going in working with them, because I know it’s about more than just their fitness to you. It’s about way, way more and so give us a little bit of your philosophy. I love, I want to get into GM BM, what that means, yep, so if you could just kind of start about you know, when you start working with the kids and the mindset mentality you start working. 0:17:33 – Jeff LovecchioYeah, I mean first and foremost was and I don’t like saying this to people because I it sounds discouraging like the amount of athletes that play hockey and probably all sports, especially ones where there’s more people playing, the odds of you getting a scholarship are extremely low. The odds of you going pro in any sport are Astronomically even lower than that, even right and so and I don’t like saying that to discourage people because, like I played pro hockey, I train all these guys in st Louis that have played pro hockey and stuff like that it’s possible. But if we look at numbers, just the way they are, the odds of your son or daughter playing professional sports is very, very low. But the the learning to invest them, learning to invest in themselves through learning to eat right, learning to go to bed on time, discipline, responsibility, pushing yourself to do things you didn’t think you could do, pushing yourself today, knowing that it’s not going to pay off for a week, a month, a year, multiple years, like, yeah, you know when I used to start with young players your nine, ten, eleven yeah, you’re not gonna look like my NHL guys for ten years, yeah, but like, if you do show up every day, we’re making strides, we’re making strides and that delayed gratification and learning how important that is for life after sports. I think it’s massively important for kids to learn all that and it’s not like I’m like hammering them with that stuff, like talking about that in the gym all the time, but I am talking to them about that stuff. Hey, later in life, like I’m so proud of you that you teaching them to go talk to their coach. Yeah, little kids, especially in today’s world I don’t know how golf is with coaching and stuff like that but parents want to step in. They want to talk to the coach. They want. Why is any not in the power play? What can Johnny do? No, no, no. When they’re in their job, when they’re out of college or whatever, you’re not going to their work to talk to their boss. So you’re literally handcuffing them later in life by you doing everything for them. So, like I had a guy yesterday who decommitted to a college because he’s gonna go to maybe a more prestigious one and he asked what can I do it over the phone and I said hey, man, you can. And I know this sucks and I know this is hard, but I promise you you doing this in person right now, at 17 years old, is gonna allow you to do so many things, yeah, in life that are hard for you. Because he was nervous, he was shaking, he didn’t want to do it and I was just like I you can do it over the phone, but I would really really love you to do this in person. Look coach in the eye, shake his hand, that type of thing, because I know what that’s gonna do for him walking into a meeting in College. If the coach is sitting him right now, it’s him going in. You can’t call a college coach If you’re a mom or dad. They’re gonna cut that kid, they’re gonna be like this guy get out of here. Same thing with work later in life. So by me kind of making sure they’re doing all these things that I know are gonna help them both in hockey and in life after hockey, I just want to make sure that, like I’m always focusing on that stuff and then just health for the rest of their life. Our country is embarrassingly overweight, embarrassing obese, embarrassingly obese, embarrassingly Metabolic syndrome. Like we just we’re just so unhealthy. So also, if we can use Sports as a leverage as leverage to get them to learn how to be healthy here, I think we should use that because it will help them there, but also it’s gonna get them into good routines. They’re gonna like fitness, they’re gonna like working out and stuff like that. So I think that’s really important for little kids. My philosophy of little kids is, first and foremost, they have to want to come back Mm-hmm. So for me, I’ve got to make it fun. You know like I can have you do what pro guys do, but pro guys are getting paid a million dollars to be in shape. This little kid is not. So I’m gonna hide a sprint in a game. I’m gonna hide a coordination in a, in a game where they’re playing with their friends they don’t even know that they’re working on all these things and then they want to come back, and if they want to come back, they’re gonna get better results, especially on a long enough timeline. 0:21:26 – Jeff PelizzaroWhen you’re working with the adults, the non professional athletes because you work with a lot of them too but the whole thing is training like an athlete, right? Do you find that sometimes it’s difficult to get those people into that same mindset of like, hey, we’re not just here to lift weights, we’re here to talk about the whole piece of it? 0:21:44 – Jeff LovecchioYeah, it usually like people who Come in the first time and they know people who’ve been in, they’re kind of like, oh, this is gonna be hard or whatever. Because, like, I don’t show we, we lift more weights than anybody. I know my volume is very high. I I do a lot of very high volume days, but it’s not traditional weight lifting. As far as barbell bench press, barbell back squat, barbell deadlift okay, so you’re not doing those, but you’re still lifting a lot of weights. But I don’t show that stuff because a lot of people know about lifting weights. So on social media I show a lot of the other things we do because I literally just want to teach people what I’m doing. That’s working. Hey, try, this is works for 10s. Over 10,000 people I’ve worked with yeah. So like I’m just showing you and if you want to try it, try it, see what how it goes. So I show that stuff over the lifting. So when somebody new comes in and they’re kind of like, yeah, oh, it’s gonna be easy, and then they’re like holy shit. And then I didn’t know I couldn’t do any of these things that to me are very basic fun to like a lateral lunge, mm-hmm. The amount of people that come to me that aren’t athletes and can’t do a lateral lunge to me blows my mind. Yeah, but it’s because they either aren’t Exercising, haven’t been, or they’re in a phone booth with all their training. Is what I call it. Like if you could do all of your Exercises inside of a phone booth, you’re not training for life or to be an athlete on the whole. It doesn’t mean you never do those exercises, as you know, because it’s hard to explain this to people who don’t understand training, right? Mm-hmm, I’m not saying never do any type of deadlift. We trap our deadlift but like we do other things more often than we do that thing, right, you know? You know what? I mean yeah, for sure hard to go into this, unless I like took 20 minutes to explain the philosophy. Yeah, you know, but but. And then as soon as they come in, like they enjoy it, they have fun. They’re sore in places that they’re never sore, even if they go work out every day, because they’re just in the same pattern, the same plane of motion, and I get them out of that. 0:23:42 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, yeah, you get a moving in all the different directions and really that’s one of the things that why I wanted to bring you on, because just watching so many of your your videos and we repost a lot of your stuff and like, because all of this applies to Whether you’re a golfer, whether you’re a hockey player, whether you’re a CEO, whether whatever you are, you need to be moving, get your body moving, stay healthy, sleep, recover. One of the one of the pieces I heard you talking about on Jillian’s podcast was the importance of the warm-up. Yeah, and I’ll be honest, like that’s one of things in my own personal workouts. It’s really easy to skip right, like just I just want to go and get it done. You’re busy, you know you run around all day You’re working with clients. It’s like let me just get to the meat and potatoes. Yeah, but could you talk a little bit about the importance of, because this, this goes into not just the golfer’s workout but playing golf itself too, so going to the importance of the war the warm-up, yeah, I mean. 0:24:38 – Jeff LovecchioSo like there’s people out there who are like, have you ever seen a tiger warm-up? You’ve ever seen a lion warm-up? And I’m like, but are you a tiger or a lion? No, you’re not. You is a tiger or a lion eating McDonald’s every day and sitting at a desk like this for 12, nine hours, 10? No, they don’t. They’re walking around all day. So they’re, they’re warm all day, you know, and they’re outside and it’s hot. So like they’re also warm. Their, their core temperature is elevated. So like it’s such a stupid argument, but I think I use my warm-ups as not only is it a warm, it’s like not just, oh, you’re just doing things to warm up. Like you’re warming up, I’m also focusing on prehab. You know, trying to bulletproof the joints obviously can’t bulletproof your joints, but it’s an easy saying to the get the client to understand why we’re doing it and that’s all I care about. So like we’re gonna work on everything around the joints. We’re gonna work on mobility, we’re gonna work on prehab, we’re gonna heat up your internal temperature, we’re gonna get some core exercise going. We’re gonna get your brain and your body talking to each other, because, odds are, you’ve been sitting in the car, sitting at a desk, doing all these things, not like thinking about Movements and how your toe connects to your finger when you’re doing a throw or something like that, right? So it’s like there’s a lot of reasons that I do the warm-ups that we do and and I just everyone who does it is like I always lift more when I do this and I’m like, yes, I know, that’s why we do this you know, Lift more and you feel better, you move better. It’s not like we’re just like doing like a five-minute dynamic and it’s the same thing every time. You know you, just if you’re warm, you heat it up before you beat it up. 0:26:11 – Jeff PelizzaroI don’t know. 0:26:13 – Jeff LovecchioLike you, just gonna feel better, and for me, if somebody feels better, that’s a win, even if nothing physiologically changes. It’s like, okay, I took a placebo of a medicine, but I got healthier because of it, so that placebo worked Right, like it wasn’t a pill, it was a sugar pill. You didn’t know that, but your body did something because you thought you were taking a pill. So part of the warmup is part of that. This is a routine. This is what we do every day. They know what to expect and obviously the main part is internal core temperature going up. Prehab, mobility, stability, work on stability, before that stuff. Also, when you turn on all those proprioceptors running, jumping, agility, lifting you got everything turned on. I know not everything turns off. All right, I use language that the clients understand and that’s all I care about. I know you’re not turning muscles on, but to say that to somebody who doesn’t know what we know, they’re like yeah, I’m turning my muscle on. I get why I’m doing this. It’s all I care about. 0:27:10 – Jeff PelizzaroI can tell that you’ve gotten comments on social media of people saying you’re even turning off. 0:27:15 – Jeff LovecchioYou’re back in the day when I started putting my stuff out there and even, like, I used to have Twitter. I didn’t have Instagram when I played, but I had Twitter and you know. You just see people that say stupid things, don’t understand, or they want to use big words all the time and it’s like man, if your client doesn’t want to be here, if he doesn’t understand what you’re saying, like you’re not accomplishing what you think you are. You’re not getting 100% buy in out of the client and they’re not, because they’re not bought in. They’re not getting everything out of whatever system you’re running. So, like I don’t care, like we need them to be in the place that’s going to get them the most out of this training session and that’s all I care about. That’s it. I don’t care about what you use. That’s it. Are you in the best place? Do you want to come back? Are you giving your all every time? That’s what I care about. 0:27:58 – Jeff PelizzaroWhere did and when did your perception of what training was shift? 0:28:03 – Jeff LovecchioMike Boyle, yeah, mike Boyle. Well, okay, so the first thing that changed my mind. So I started working out at 15 and a half, right before I moved to Chicago for like two months. And then I went to Chicago and I was super weak compared to my cousin who was the same age as me five, four and probably 40 pounds less than me, and I remember he bench pressed at his house 90 pounds, 25s and the bar, and I’d never bench pressed yet and I’m like five, four, my little cousin. I get dropped out of my chair. Oh, my God, what. Okay, I got to start working out. So I got into working out then and from then on I won testing everywhere I went. Everywhere I went I was the most in shape guy. It was my calling card. I also, like I said earlier, I had to be because I wasn’t skilled as all of my teammates, like it wasn’t like a massive drop off, but like I was not good enough to be there if I didn’t do all this other stuff. So that kind of became a calling card of mine. I realized this is my in. You know, other guys aren’t training as hard or as as like intentional, so the more I do this I get like a little bit of separation and so I had to. But after my freshman year the Washington Capital has invited me to their development camp. That’s every summer, their draft picks, their new pros. They have come to camp. It’s usually anywhere from like 40 to 60 guys depending on the team, and I went there and was smoke testing. There was one guy who beat my bench press. I think I was 190 at the time. I think I did like 275, seven times barbell bench press. Hockey players don’t bench a lot, so they did back then a little bit more, but that was a good number, especially at 190. And one guy did beat me from Ohio State but after I go, 275, I think pressure seven times their fifth overall draft pick, nicholas Backstrom. I think he’s still in the NHL today. He won rookie of the year that year and the media was all over this guy, like he’s going to be amazing, and he was. He literally could not bench the warmup weight of 135. And I remember watching him after I went. He was right after me and he went and I’m just like that was embarrassing. And then I was like wait a minute, this guy is going to be in the NHL this year right now and he was the fifth overall pick and he can’t bench my warmup weight but he’s way better hockey than me and there’s roles in hockey and I’m not the same role as him but at its core I’m training the wrong way. Whatever he’s doing is helping him be a better hockey player. And I murdered you, can’t even bench my warmup weight and I’m not anywhere near the NHL yet. Like I was like pffft. And then the strength coach at the camp for the Capitol Zen. His name is Jack Blatherwick. He’s like the father of USA Hockey strength training. He was the 1980 Olympic teams gold medalist strength coach and he’s the one who said to me and this would have been 2000, after my freshman year, 2004 or 2005,. This would have been 2006. He said to me I just started asking him questions as soon as he said something to me. I was like this guy knows what he’s talking about and I’m just asking him everything. I’m standing by him everywhere. I could asking him why, how, when, when should we do this? And he was like Jeff, if you can do all your training in a phone booth, you’re training the wrong way. And I was like what do you mean? And then he like showed me all the exercises and what they look like, and all of them in a phone booth. He’s like, but is hockey like this? Or your feet still are you doing this? And I was like no. And he’s like then, are you training to be a hockey player? And I was like, well, that makes sense because I’m winning all these tests. But when I go on the ice my balance isn’t as good. I’m not the strongest guy on the ice. I’m the strongest guy in the gym, but I’m not the strongest guy in the ice. What’s with the disconnect? But like nothing, I was doing in the gym and you know it doesn’t need to look the same as the ice, but like the way that I was training with barbells, back squats, hang clean snatches, all dead lifts, all that stuff. No matter how good I got at it, I wasn’t getting any better at the ice. And then I read. The next year, after I signed, I bought Mike Boyle’s book advances in functional strength training and I read that book in two days, three days, and I literally was like that’s what’s missing, right there. And it was mainly unilateral training. And so from then on and that was 2006, 2007, when I read the book my philosophies on training, how I approached training programming, everything changed. And not only did my strength not drop, I got stronger in the weight room and on the ice, I immediately got better, immediately more comfortable, immediately, better balance, immediately, like just all these positive benefits. And then, from there on, I just try to add more and more into my training. Okay, well, like, yeah, lifting is training, but all we’re doing right now is lifting, running and jumping. That’s all it was. But, like, if I close my eyes and try to play hockey, I can’t play. So how important are my eyes? Okay, well, I should start training my eyes. Part of that came from my concussion stuff. Okay, vestibular system was manged. I had to do vestibular training three days a week for, like I think it was like four to five months, and as soon as I finished that, I kept doing the vestibular work and I was like holy crap, why is no one training their eyes? So in 2008, I’m telling everybody start training your eyes. And they’re like what are you talking? 0:33:07 – Jeff Pelizzaroabout? What does that mean? 0:33:08 – Jeff LovecchioRight. And so, like I started bringing in lots of coordination, lots of playing with depth and spatial awareness, because hockey is so much about. Okay, I know you’re this far, so what skills can I do here versus if I’m over there, versus if I’m right in tight, like all of that is happening on the ice every shift, but nobody worked on that in the gym and I’m like, oh my God, just lifting weights, running and jumping, like, yes, do all that, but let’s do more. And so in my warmups I do a lot of that stuff vestibular coordination, spatial awareness you know stuff like that too. 0:33:43 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, I was wondering where you piece that in. So that’s, that’s mostly in the warmup, kind of stuff. 0:33:47 – Jeff LovecchioI usually do all that stuff within the warmup before we get going, because the guys have energy, the guys are fresh. I also think that, like your eyes, like I said, if you tried to play hockey with your eyes closed or golf, you suck. Or just stand on one leg right, people can’t stand on one leg, you know, so it’s like I put a lot of that in there. And then also it’s over 25 years old, but I use it with guys younger than 25 anyways, and they all feel better, so that’s all I care about. But over 25, neuroplasticity when you’re tired, if you work on it like it, helps way more. So like I started bringing in like neuroplasticity drills and vestibular system drills, eye drills while they’re tired. So, in between, you know, sets, I might, might be throwing balls or juggling or doing something right? Because, especially in hockey, everybody knows that if you get caught out in the defensive zone at the end of a shift, the first thing that goes is your brain. Like you just start going all over the ice, you forget the system, like you just stop thinking and like you just become an idiot. So it’s like I want to challenge their brain, their eyes, all this stuff while they’re tired, because that’s going to happen on the ice, you know. 0:34:56 – Jeff Pelizzaroso that’s yeah, that’s fascinating. I’m just thinking like when guys get to the 15 16th hole, you know they’re tired, they’re exhausted, whether they’re a pro golfer, whether they’re collegiate golfer, whether they’re just a guy on a golf trip on the second day, that’s in his 40s or 50s you know like right doing that kind of stuff, because then it’s a lot of dexterity stuff too. So like doing some some training, getting a putter out and yeah it’s not a time to really work on skills. 0:35:22 – Jeff LovecchioIt’s more like the capacity. 0:35:23 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, when you’re tired decision-making. 0:35:25 – Jeff LovecchioDecision-making when you’re tired and that’s like so important and it’s something that I think more and more Trainers are starting to add that stuff, but still most don’t and it’s like dude wire you go back to. Why are we training? Because when I was younger, the way I was training made me way better in the weight room, but at a certain point I stopped getting better on the ice. Yeah, I’m a pro hockey player. All that matters is the ice. I don’t care how much I bench press, unless an increase means I’m better out there, mm-hmm, and I want guys to bench press a lot. You know what I mean, but it’s like this is the main thing. So everything we’re doing here, all I care about is are your results better? Are you healthier? Are you getting injured less? You know, all of those things is the reason why we’re training so like if you get. I think that for all sports there’s a point of diminishing returns, focusing on chasing One specific skill or attribute or strength or something like that. You know, let’s work on the other things and let’s work on the other things in a way that you work on them on the ice when you’re tired. 0:36:25 – Jeff PelizzaroYou know when, when, whatever, you know when, when you have your guys in the gym or girls, at what point you talk about kind of the risk, the reward. You know I’d see on on line Coaches working and getting people just trying to deadlift as much as possible. I know you and I we’re not back squat guys, right, but even even the hex bar deadlift, right, it’s a great exercise. But I see some of these golfers online 400, 500 pound deadlifts and I’m like Like at what point is it just like yes, there’s the risk. 0:36:59 – Jeff LovecchioYeah, you’re spying your your hips if the risk does not equal the reward and we get. I never want to scare anybody into trying things in the gym or doing things if they make sense, but like, like I’m saying, you’ve got to realize that that what’s the reward? If I have 400 on the bar versus 450, and if 400 is my absolute most I’ve ever done, and now I try to jump up and keep jumping, well, what point does that not really help golf and we could spend that time on other things. And now maybe we move the bar faster or we do a tempo lift or we do this or we do that Because you’re not getting paid for your frickin PR on the trap bar. Yeah, you’re getting paid to win at golf. So, like, how much is that helping? And is there? Could our time be better spent? Mm-hmm, that that’s what I care. How much time do I have with you? Okay? Well, that’s gonna decide another factor of what we’re gonna do, because we want to do things that will help the most with the amount of time, the resources, your body, all those types of things. 0:37:58 – Jeff PelizzaroLet’s take a second to thank our sponsors over at first form, and this week I want to highlight their formula one post workout protein shake. I use this thing pretty much every day after my workouts because, let’s face it, being here in the gym Working all the time with clients putting on a podcast, it can sometimes be tough to get my protein in on a regular basis, and so I know that with the post workout shake the formula one, first of all, it’s fast acting. So right after your workout is a great time to get your protein in to help build your muscles, get yourself stronger and repair what you’ve done in the gym, but also, if you don’t know if you’re gonna be able to get your protein in in your regular meals, it’s just a great way to make sure that you’re supplementing and hitting those marks. So be sure to go over to first form dot com forward slash 18STRONG to get your first form Formula one protein shake, and everyone that enters through that link is gonna be put into a drawing every single month for free first form products. So, again, go over to first form dot com forward slash 18STRONG. Going back to when you were talking about the guy that was in the combine and you know, 135 pounds couldn’t, couldn’t let the hundred and 35 pounds. We see the same thing in in golf. Right, you see these, these guys that are five, six, 140 pounds, but they’re hitting a ball 330, 340. You guys see it with guys with slap shots. And yeah, what do you? Where do you see the most benefit as far as being able to improve Something like that? Like I was always amazed when I would see some of the hockey guys at a gym that I used to work at and Like the speed of their hands. It didn’t matter how big and strong the guy was. But you see, those guys let a wrist shot go or a slap shot. It’s like holy shit. And then you know, but it’s not because of how big and strong he is necessarily technique right. 0:39:43 – Jeff LovecchioSo much of sports is Skill-based. So, like, the reason you’re training is so that you can Present your skill for longer at towards the end of the game, 16th hole, 18th hole, whatever it is when you’re tired, like things like that, like, and then obviously to increase your power output and things like that. But Power development is very Position-specific. So like, yeah, a hand clean is working on your power, but does that look like anything you do in golf or hockey or almost any sport? Well, how about a med ball throw for a shot or a golf swing? That’s power and it’s very position-specific and you’re working those specific muscles and you can go over speed, you can go heavier, you can do all these things. So for me it’s like, well, let’s focus, let’s start with that trap bar, whatever it is, to get some general strength and then let’s advance into more Specific things that will help with whatever the skills that you need to Demonstrate in your sport. You know it’s hard. Everybody’s different, you know. And it’s also also in like sports that have Multiple, like big rosters where every guy has a different role because, like you got 12 forwards on a team that are playing in a game in hockey, but like every player. Every forward of those 12 has a little bit different role. They play a different style. So, like you can also get into that. But there’s just so many ways you can go about it. There’s so many ways to skin the cat. You gotta find what works for you. Your body, what do you like, what do you like goes a lot into it, do you? I? I, everybody Will get at me. For this was like do you want to be there? We were talking about it today with all my college guys Do you want to be in the gym? Because a lot of them will tell me, like I hate our lifts at school, I hate them, my body hurts. You know all this stuff. And to me, I’m just like what is like? What if that guy wanted to be in there? What if he enjoyed the lifts he was doing? How much better would, how much more would he get out of that? You know what I mean. Like it’s so that is such an important piece to training, because all of these people coming to train with us are training, not to train. They’re not trying to get better at the gym, they’re trying to get better at something else. Yeah, and we as coaches have to keep that in mind. It’s not what we want to do, necessarily. It’s it’s what do you, what do they like doing? What do they want to do? Past like the things we know they need to do? Yeah, but it’s our job to let, to get them to understand why they need to do it and why they need to Like it. I think that you know. 0:42:13 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, I mean we’re getting into the point right now. End of the year, january is coming up, and so it’s like New Year’s resolutions all around, right, and people are trying to figure out Okay, what am I going to do to get better next year? But I think to your point. Like if you don’t find something that you really want to do, like if you’re just going to try to do something for 30 Days or 90 days, and it’s like it’s going to be a grind every single time you do it, I mean, how realistic is that for you to stick to? that so what do you, what would you say to somebody that’s that’s looking to make some changes next year? You know, going into January, going into 24, that you know maybe is not quite sure how to really start to get into building those habits or making those changes, because I know that that’s a big piece of what you do too. 0:42:55 – Jeff LovecchioYeah, I’m, I’m, I don’t care what it is if it’s the gym, your body, your health, your business, your relationships. I’m a huge advocate for always trying to reverse engineer whatever you want to do. So if you’re, you got that, like you, you also. You have to decide what you want to do and your why. Because if you don’t, it’s like getting in your car and Not putting anything in your GPS and hoping you get to the destination. Even pick the destination. You have to pick a destination so that I know, okay, this is what I want, or I want to be, or I want to do, or something, and now we can Reverse backwards to January 1st and now we can create steps to then work towards that. But if you don’t say what your goal is, you can’t reverse engineer it. And so the what is the goal, the why, then, is even more important. Why do you want that goal, and is that actually the goal you really want? Like you, you have to be very honest and specific with your why, because if you don’t, you’re not going to show up on the hard days. You’re not going to do, you’re not, you’re going to make bit more bad decisions. You’re, you’re gonna, you’re just not going to do everything with intention because you haven’t established a strong enough why. Your why is fake and a lot of people are embarrassed to say their why because it’s like something deep down, but it’s like you’ve got to connect to that. That is your purpose for why we’re gonna lay out all these steps and you’ll want to do these things because you know when it’s hard there, you’re making them. Put them on the bike or the treadmill or whatever, and they’re halfway through and they want to Quit. But if you’re the coach and you’re saying, hey, you told me, is this your goal? You told me, this is your goal. Yeah, this is why you’re here. Don’t you forget that they’re gonna do it. But if they don’t have that strong why, it’s easy to quit, it’s easy to take days off, it’s easy to let that go, because you just haven’t created a strong enough reason why you’re gonna do all these things that are usually like harder to do. Making good decisions it’s harder than making bad decisions. Yeah, you know, I mean, it’s just it’s it’s. It’s really important to do the what, the why, reverse, engineer, create steps. 0:45:02 – Jeff PelizzaroIs that something that you go through specifically with some of your guys? I know you you’ve even got, you’ve got that on your wall, right? What is your why yeah? 0:45:09 – Jeff Lovecchioand all the time I’m telling the guys look up there, we’re doing something hard, we’re doing shuttles. The guys are tired, it’s the middle of summer and they’re kind of hitting that first lull or funk. Look up there, why are you here? Why are you here? And I know what their whys are and I also make them go over their whys Every single day before every single session. Really. So, to start every session in the offseason, not the season in the offseason After they do the guys come in, I have a board where it’s like I wanted to do, like it’s anywhere from five to ten things that day that I just because some guys get there 20 minutes early, some guys show up right on time. I want them to get through these things Quickly, with intention, so then I can focus on all the stuff that we’re gonna do together. And right before we we start together, I lay them down on their mats. I don’t turn the lights off in the beginning, but I’m telling the closer eyes and tell yourself why you’re here. Why are you here, not out loud, just to yourself why are you here? What are your goals? What are your long-term goals? What are your short-term goals? What are your goals for today in the gym what do you want out of hockey this year? And then I want you to tell me, tell yourself the specific number of goals that you have for the season. Whether you’re a goalie and it’s like I will have a 93, say, percentage this year, I will play in over 55% of the games, or a forward, I will score 20 nights, I will. I have a tattoo down me, I will, I will, I want, I will. Statements, not I want or not, I hope, because that’s bullshit language like I want it very specific. I believe the words we use in our own head matter Because they are gonna be deep down inside of us. And then when we come to a fork in the road where it’s like the way I should go or the way I shouldn’t go, if you’re always saying I will, I will, I will, I will, you’re just gonna naturally make that good decision. That’s gonna get you towards the I will statement. If you’re not doing that, it’s easy to take the easy road, you know so. We do that before every single session in offseason. 0:46:59 – Jeff PelizzaroI love that, man. It’s like rehearsing that when you get to a tough spot, you already know this is the direction I’m taking you, because you’ve already kind of seen that you already played it out. It’s like I don’t have to waver which way I’m. 0:47:12 – Jeff LovecchioI’m moving in that direction. It’s the positive self-talk of like there’s days where we don’t want to train, right, and then that stuff happens. But like getting through those days though I mean getting through you know language I should probably shouldn’t say it that way but finding a way to battle on those days. Those are the days when you leave the gym and you’re like I didn’t give up a ton of people my age guys I play with, guys I played against. They would have left early, they would have, they would have, you know, done eight reps instead of ten. I did all friggin ten. And part of that comes from the self-talk that you’re always saying to yourself. If you’re always doing that, you don’t even know when a decision comes up, you’re not even thinking, it’s just second nature. This is what I’m gonna do, because this gets me to my goals. But if you’re not always telling yourself why am I here? What are my goals? I will do this. I, I’m doing this because I want that and I’m gonna get that. No matter what, you’re gonna make those better decisions. You know and I’ve seen it. But it’s not like. This is like all you know. I tried it once. Like trying this with thousands of athletes at all levels and it works, so let’s keep doing it so you obviously are. 0:48:17 – Jeff PelizzaroYou’re helping coach all of these kids. You’re really helping kind of steer the way that they mentally approach the game, mentally approach their training, how hard they work. Who did that for you when you were young? Because it sounds like since you were 15 years old, you were a hard-working kid, right. 0:48:33 – Jeff LovecchioWell, I just I got to a point where I wasn’t good enough and I literally had to like fortify my mind or else I wouldn’t have been there. And hockey was everything to me, it was ever. It’s all I ever wanted to do, it’s all I ever thought about. And so, like it was kind of like shit or get off the pot for me, like you either have to go all in and do everything or else your hockey career is over. And I had coaches who told me that, and I had a coach who wanted to cut me, and if I would have said I’m done, he would have cut me that second right there, I would have went home, but I didn’t. No, I’m here, I’m going, I’m going, I’m going. And I just kept having to find a way. And then I realized that, like when I I was always a leader on teams too, and so like I’d always try and bring guys with me and like I just realized that like the guys who are better than me, when they would come with me to the gym or they would come with me and I’d teach them about nutrition, like they would get better, and so I would just start seeing like yeah, guys, like look how, like I’m one of the better players on this team, but it’s not because of my skill. You’re all more skilled to me, all of you. So what if you guys start doing the things I’m doing? Or what if you guys start talking to yourself the way I am? And I started working on that with teammates and younger guys who I would take under my wing, who are going through a hard time like I did two years before, and I would see the change it would have in them and I kind of like selfishly look at it as like I’m always like man. If I would have had me saying this when I was younger, how good would I have been. I would have figured it out sooner. And if I figured it out sooner and I had more years to develop, how much better could I have gotten. So it’s like something where I’m like I wish I had me when I was younger and in St Louis we didn’t really have that growing up, and so, like I took a lot of pride from 17 on, coming back every summer and helping guys out. Hey guys, I learned this this year. You got to be able to do this in two years. Let’s start practicing it now. The kids who are coming up behind me, and I love doing that, and I was a leader on every team, so I’d also do it on my teams. And then when I started my company, it was like, well, now I’m going to do this like for real. And then it just, you know, has gone more and more people every year. 0:50:39 – Jeff PelizzaroSo tell us about the company you got your GMBM on. Yeah, what’s it stand for? 0:50:44 – Jeff LovecchioYes, so it was actually my first year when I retired, so 2018 was my last season in Austria and I came home and obviously I walked into, you know, a business that was already pretty pretty set up, pretty established in St Louis here, and but I was still like trying to decide how, where do I want to go with this? Where do I want to go with this? But do I want to be an only hockey like trying to figure out and how can I be better for my clients, for my family, just like all these things? I want to be better. I went through a divorce which also made me look inward and just be like I just want to be better for everybody around me and myself. And I was with a supplement company at the time and they flew me out to Arizona and it was. It was like one of those movies where it’s like there was 3000 people in this huge banquet hall and the person on stage at Seyosanth and everybody’s like oh yes, yes, pretty like that. But it was like about supplements making people healthy and at first it’s kind of like this is ridiculous, but then I was like I got to know those people and they all genuinely wanted to help people and they genuinely wanted to help people and they made money off helping people and I was like, well, that’s the best thing in the world, like everybody’s winning, like that’s really cool. And I was just like man, like I need to do more for my guys, I need to do more for my family, I need to like give more of myself. And my flight got canceled. So everybody from the conference flew, flew home on like Sunday. Mine got canceled two days in a row so I wound up being in Arizona two more days. So I have no car because, like I got flown out there. So I’m just like walking around this downtown area I don’t even remember what city it was, one of the big ones out there, scottsdale, I don’t know and I came to this like random, like business park, and this sounds so out of a movie, but it’s 100% true. Come to this random business park, like a mile away from the hotel and it was like beautiful, it was super quiet, it was a Monday in the middle of the day, so everybody’s working. I’m guessing there’s all these beautiful glass buildings and like all these trees and bushes and like a little pond and like little fake rivers running through it. So I was just sitting there and I meditated my last few years. I got into meditation in my career. I’m sitting there meditating, thinking about this conference, of all these positive influences that just were around me and the energetic feeling and vibration I was having and I was just like I need to be more, I need to give more to everyone in my life and I’ll be more. And it just like came to me and I was like, well, if I give more, I’ll be more. And I was like I’m going to go get that tattooed, I mean right now. I Googled Nier’s tattoo shop. I walked two miles got a tattooed on my arm right here and then two months. So I started talking about that on my social media, as I just started social media back then and my podcast. I just started a podcast that year too, the hockey think tank podcast, which is now pretty big, and because of that, give more, be more. And I was saying it to people hey, if you give more to hockey, you’re going to. If you give more to training, you’re going to be a better hockey player. You’ll be more on the ice. If you give more to nutrition, you’re going to be more on the ice. If you give more to your family, you’re going to be a better son, brother, husband, whatever. And so, in saying that and saying that on the podcast, this company who I now makes my clothing line reach out to me and they were like we love your message, we make, we have this clothing line. We’d love to just send you some GMBM stuff, but actually I think this was one of the first things they sent me in 2018. Still one of my favorite shirts. It was the first and the stuff was awesome and I was like guys, I would love to like make a shirt and sell it to my guys just to remind them every day when they come in, like I’m here to give more, like, give more. Okay, other people are given this much, give more than them, because in the end, you’re going to be more. And then it just like kept going, kept going and the clothing line got bigger and you know, and then I had to give more be more podcasts. For a while it did well, I got clothing line and I’m actually going to change the name of my company probably to like GMT. Give more training. Be more is like my speaking side. I do a lot of speaking now and stuff like that. So it’s just, I just think it’s a good model for anybody who wants to be better than anything Like you’re not going to get anywhere by giving less, whether that’s sleep, nutrition, reading, being a better person. Just go out there and give more to strangers. You’re going to, I promise you, if you’re nicer to the guy in the Chipotle line, you just made them have a better day and you’re going to feel good that they are like wow, nobody’s asked me how my day is. The amount of times people at gas stations, grocery stores, restaurants where the first thing I say is how are you doing today? And they look up and they’re like nobody’s asked me that in a month. That’s crazy and it’s like man, what happened to society? So I just think if you give more to everybody, whoever’s in front of you, give more to that person, give more to your studies, give more to school, give more to your family, give more to relationships, give more to your training, you’re going to be better. It sounds so simple, but it’s like I’m really big in like sayings and like things like that. They help me stay. They’re like the bumper things in bowling. Like sayings help me refocus and stay in the lane. Like my grandma always said, like if it is to be, it’s up to me. Like she would write it every time she’d leave she’s from Chicago, every time she’d leave her house in St Louis, she’d leave little notes in my bathroom If it is to be, it’s up to me, jeffrey, if you want to be better, no one can help you. You need to go get better, you need to go train, you need to go to sleep on time, and so that was just like instilled in me, and I love sayings and I thought GMBN was easy and just reminds me to be better. I love it, man. 0:56:07 – Jeff PelizzaroWe could sit and we could sit and chat about this stuff all day long. I’m thinking about even just walking around the park walking the dog. I intentionally try to lock eyes with people and just smile and it’s like some people are just in their little zone and they walk by and they almost like don’t want to look at you, but you smile and say hello and they’re like oh, oh hi. Catches them off guard almost. 0:56:30 – Jeff LovecchioIt’s weird. It’s weird where society is gone. I think, and what kind of scares me is the younger generations now. They’re always like I work with a lot of kids and so many of them can’t look adult in the eye. They don’t meet somebody and shake their hand. They’ve always got air pods in Like I don’t like dude, where, if this keeps going like this, where the disconnect in society? I mean we’re seeing it with politics and all these things where everybody’s at each other’s strokes all the time but nobody ever looks up, looks someone in the eye and talks to them. That’s so much of all these bad things in the world. Would just be better if we were polite, nice. 0:57:12 – Jeff PelizzaroIn a room next to each other like talking. 0:57:14 – Jeff LovecchioI don’t care what your views are, but let’s talk like human beings and not kill each other. We’re in the same country, the same world, the same universe, same everything. We don’t need less connection, we need more connection. Yeah. 0:57:28 – Jeff PelizzaroIt’s funny. Your grandma was such an influence on you. My grandpa was always the one he’s like. When you meet somebody, you look them in the eye, you shake their hand, you squeeze their hands Even my 10 year old were like what does grandpa Val say? Look them in the eye, shake their hand, squeeze. So it’s awesome, that’s where he takes on the moment. 0:57:43 – Jeff LovecchioEvery kid who comes to me, who’s new, and their parents are coming in and I stick out my hand and no, no, no, no, no. Look me in the eye, shake my hand like you mean it, make me believe that you want to be here. You know and like every kid, and it’s like you do that out in the world. And for me now, one of the coolest things ever is when scouts call me and go and you work with this guy. Yeah, I knew you did because of this, this and this because of the way you talked to me, the way that he shook my hand, the way that he showed up to our meeting he had a collared shirt on and nice pants and he combed his hair and other kids are showing up like they’re going to a concert and so it’s like a weird, like parenting moment from here. 0:58:20 – Jeff PelizzaroI’m like, yeah, I love to hear that, you know, yeah, we have there’s so many coaches that are listening in this podcast right now that I know are like man, that’s that’s what I want to do with my students, with my clients, with my golf. 0:58:29 – Jeff LovecchioIt doesn’t take a lot of extra effort. It’s a little bit of effort every day and it’s just hammering home those details. Be a good person. No, no, no, no. Like a simple one for me, and I say it to all, especially when I have new teams or new clients coming in, I’m like, hey, everybody grab a mat and I watch and I see which guys grab multiple mats and pass them out to our teammates and then I stopped the room every single time. That was a test. See what he did right there. What did he do? It’s a good teammate right there. Why is he good? I don’t know, because I asked you all to do something and he went up and he helped everybody else. That’s who we want on our team. That’s who, if I’m a business owner, I want that guy and all the business owners out there, they want that guy. Don’t be the guy who only thinks about himself. Think about the other people in the room. Think about you know all these things, and it takes five extra seconds every day doing that. And now all these kids. What’s really cool is my guys who didn’t don’t make it to pro or play lower level college or whatever, and to see them be successful in life after hockey is, and they’re doing the same things we did in the gym. Right, it’s very cool. Yeah, it’s very cool. It plays out in everything, everything. How you do anything is how you do everything, absolutely. 0:59:36 – Jeff PelizzaroAll right, my man, we’re going to finish up with some, some fun questions here. I got a feeling I know your answer to this one, but Caddyshack or happy Gilmore. Happy Gilmore, obviously. 0:59:47 – Jeff LovecchioI love Caddyshack, but happy Gilmore 100%. 0:59:50 – Jeff PelizzaroI heard you once say that your skating style was much like happy Gilmore. 0:59:54 – Jeff LovecchioYeah, I was really fast but really ugly, and so I always tell guys hey, you’re better than me, do what I did, and you’ll be even better because I skated like happy Gilmore. 1:00:03 – Jeff PelizzaroSo early. You were talking about how different guys have different roles on the team. I’m just curious, what was Jeff Levecchio’s role? 1:00:09 – Jeff LovecchioI’d say I was like a power forward, so like I had to play down low heavy minutes, lots of penalty killing If I was on the power plates in front of the net, getting beat up trying to stream the goalie, kind of unselfish stuff like that, putting myself in danger areas, like just that type of stuff. Like I could score goals but I wasn’t like a goal scorer and like it was finesse it was usually ugly, but what I would always say is they don’t ask how, they ask how many. 1:00:33 – Jeff PelizzaroYep, that’s all that matters. Absolutely All right, if you could pick a walk up song. I’m going to say to the first T box and you haven’t played a whole lot of golf. 1:00:40 – Jeff LovecchioWhat’s your walk up song? Live your Life by Rihanna and TI yeah, specifically Rihanna’s part in that. Before every single speech, I listen to that song. Awesome, yeah, every speech. 1:00:51 – Jeff PelizzaroAll right, I have a feeling you’re gonna have a couple answers for this one, but is there a book that has meant a ton to you? We’ve already talked about Mike Boyles but, a book that’s meant to a lot to you, that you recommend maybe to your guys. Don’t have to be training, don’t have to be happy whatever. 1:01:04 – Jeff LovecchioThe secret is the first one. I want all my guys reading the law of attraction, just like attracts, like where your mind goes, energy flows. I think all of that is very, very important and it changed my life. I read that book on the plane right after I signed with the Bruins going to Providence and I had coaches and people being like you’re not ready to play pro? And I read that book cover to cover in a day and a half and I scored a goal and assist and I was first star in my first pro game and usually I was like known for celebrating really hard when I would score because I was just so happy and I stood still and just looked at like the sky and I was like I knew I could do this and it was like I attribute to my feeling going into that game a lot to reading the secret the day before. I really believe in that stuff. So the secret the other one that I read recently I’m not a big reader, I should be way better is RSF and it’s written by a guy from St Louis Relentless Solutions, focus. Oh, jason Selt. Yes, that book. I’ve been dialed ever since I read that book last year. 1:02:03 – Jeff PelizzaroHe’s going to be in here in three weeks, no way dude, I’ve never met him. 1:02:08 – Jeff LovecchioA buddy of mine was like you got to read this book and my wife will say she doesn’t love it because we’ll go on walks or we’re talking and she comes up with a problem and I’m like you got 60 seconds, 60 seconds go. You can talk about it for 60. What’s one thing we can do right now that’s going to move the needle and like that’s how my brain thinks and that is. I was already in that kind of like don’t sit in, sulk and whatever, but like RSF, read that book. 1:02:32 – Jeff PelizzaroRead that book I literally just ordered. Oh, you’re going to love it. 1:02:36 – Jeff LovecchioIt’s the same thing, hammering you over and over and over, and then you get to end the book and you start practicing it in your life and you’re like, oh my God, yes, like you’re going to love it. 1:02:45 – Jeff PelizzaroIt’s awesome, perfect, all right, if you could pick a dream for some to go play some golf with. Could be celebrities, could be historical figures alive, dead, doesn’t matter who it is. Who are you picking? 1:02:55 – Jeff LovecchioI’d say Joe Rogan, Conor McGregor, Dana White probably Weird that they’re all like fighting guys. It’s not because of fighting, it’s not because of golf course it has nothing to do with like fighting Conor McGregor, because his mindset when he was Conor McGregor before he lost his first fight to Diaz he was RSF. He was the secret. He embodied all that. He talked about the secret and the law of attraction all the time and he believed it and he lived it. When he went into his fight with first fight with Diaz that he lost and that changed his career trajectory. From then on, I knew at the weigh-ins that he was going to lose and that he wasn’t the same because of, like his eye contact and stuff, and I could tell that like he didn’t believe in himself. But like I say to people, it doesn’t even matter, Do the guy had like probably $400 million at that point. $300 million how do you go in and fight for your life when you got $400 million in the bank? I don’t know how anybody could do that. But that’s why him. Joe Rogan, because he’s just interviewed some of the smartest people in the world, his perspective on things I love. And Dana White for things that he’s done during COVID and things that, like I align with him on. I really respect what he did and I think he’s a true American. So, and I think those three together would be hilarious. 1:04:09 – Jeff PelizzaroOh my God, that would be quite a time. All right, I don’t know if you know many golf courses, but you know our typical question is if there’s a bucket list golf course for you to go to, like if we could fuel up the 18STRONG jet. You can go anywhere you want. Where are you going to play? And then I have a follow up question, a hockey version of that, so I don’t really know a ton about golf, but this past summer a couple of my clients went. 1:04:36 – Jeff LovecchioWhy just one of them went to a wedding, and I think it was either. I think it was Scotland. Is there like a really good course in Scotland with like a castle on it? 1:04:44 – Jeff PelizzaroSt Andrews, that’s what it was. 1:04:46 – Jeff LovecchioI saw pictures and I was like, and they were telling me how beautiful it was and how like prestigious it is, and I was like I’ve never been to Scotland. That would probably be it. Yeah, that one’s like, that’s the home of golf. Oh really, yeah, St Andrews is the home of golf. 1:05:00 – Jeff PelizzaroSo hockey version of this? In your pro career, is there a place that you never got to play in that you want? That is, like the number one place that you would have loved to get your skates on the ice? 1:05:15 – Jeff LovecchioLet’s see, in the NHL and preseason I got to play in every Canadian rink, which was really cool, and I got to play in Boston, so that was cool. I’d probably say just like against the Blues in St Louis. Yeah, just because, like, I grew up here at a time where, like not almost no guys were going pro very, very few, and now it’s a lot different and I me, if I could have played a game in St Louis, that would have been very, very cool. Just to have been a kid who grew up watching the Blues and didn’t see a lot of guys from St Louis making it, it would have been cool to play there. Awesome, yeah. 1:05:53 – Jeff PelizzaroNow that you have a monster following on social media, is there one social media account that you think the 18STRONG crew should check? 1:06:02 – Jeff Lovecchioout Good question. 1:06:03 – Jeff PelizzaroWhether it’s, you know, training wise mentality, whatever who’s somebody, we should follow. 1:06:07 – Jeff LovecchioI have a couple. Number one, vernon Griffith. Yeah, okay, love him. Trying to get him out to St Louis this summer. Yeah, I’ve talked to him. I think he’s going to come out. Vernon Griffith, because I think that with golf, a lot of his hip, a T spine I think all that stuff could really help golfers and like how they work together and then adding in the shoulder, I think he’s just phenomenal for anybody who rotates. So everyone, also my buddy, clifton Harski, cliff Harski I think his Instagram is Clifton Harski. He does. He’s not only a kettlebell guy but he shows a lot of stuff with kettlebells. He’s a really big. He’s like a coach of a lot of coaches. You probably know, yeah, and follow like that are big time and he does a lot of stuff with kettlebells that I’ve never seen and I really really like I just did a one of his certifications in Nashville, like three weeks ago, worked out with him at first form this past Friday with a new client of mine who’s a pro pickleball player from St Louis, and I just think that the way that he uses kettlebells traveling, moving, while he’s using them, not just standing still I think that that will help anyone who moves and any athlete with acceleration, deceleration, rotation, fluidity, all these things, I think would help any athlete in any sport. Very cool yeah. 1:07:24 – Jeff PelizzaroAwesome, we’ll check it out. All right, any last pieces of advice for the 18STRONG crew and then tell them where they can go, find you and everything. 1:07:33 – Jeff LovecchioPeace of advice. Just give more Whatever you want in life, like, reverse engineer your goals. Like, for the love of God, take time to write down what you want out of life, I don’t care how big or how small it is. Write it down and then decide why you want that. Do I really want this? Why do I want this? Because if you connect that why with the what you’re going to want to reverse engineer the steps from today, day one, to where, how, what can I be doing to get to my goals, you can never get there. If you don’t decide the what and the why, you’ll never get there. So decide that stuff and it will change your life, because then you can see I’m off course. You don’t know if you’re off course if you don’t know the destination right, you don’t know you’re over here when you’re trying to go to here, unless you decided you’re going here. So you’ve got to decide that stuff and then really connect with a strong why. Because if you connect with a strong why, nothing can stop you. Then, as far as finding me, I just send everybody to my Instagram. It’s my name at, Jeff Levecchio, the word love cchio, or my new website, gmbmcom. Really, and what’s really cool about my website is that two of my clients that I’ve had since they were little kids who are freshmen in college this year, at 20 years old, they built my website. It was one of the best websites of anyone in my space I’ve ever seen because of them at 20. And I just think it’s really cool that I was able to teach these kids all these things that I’ve learned in life. And now they’ve taught me about the website and they’ve built it and I got to pay people who paid me for a decade. I got to kind of pay that back to them. So for me it’s really cool and it’s been a fun project working with them. 1:09:13 – Jeff PelizzaroAwesome. Well, I can’t thank you enough for taking the time to come on today. I mean speaking personally. I’ve been following you for a long time and I know we’re in different worlds the hockey world, the golf world, a lot of that crosses over the tune right, especially in St Louis there’s a lot of cross over there, but I just want to say that I really appreciate what you’re doing, not just from the physicality of the fitness side of things, but the mentality side. I think that there’s so much that everybody listening to this show, everybody that is interested in fitness mindset, needs to go follow you. So thanks for coming on. 1:09:43 – Jeff LovecchioI appreciate it, man. Thank you. Now let’s see how I swung the ball. I’m going to close the club here. 1:09:47 – Jeff PelizzaroLet’s see how it goes. Thanks for listening to the 18STRONG Podcast and if you found this episode helpful, don’t forget to share it with your friends. And, of course, go follow us over on Instagram at 18STRONG. Thanks again, we’ll catch up with you next week. Train hard, practice smart and play better golf.

Host: Jeff PelizzaroEpisode Number: 362Podcast: The 18STRONG PodcastPartners: Linksoul, 1stPhorm Summary Join us as we revisit the powerful 40-Day FORGE program, an initiative that has been instrumental in transforming the habits, resilience, and self-confidence of our community. As we approach a new year, there’s no better time to reforge your commitment to personal growth and excellence. Listen in as I share the intricacies of the FORGE, where the physical meets the mental, equipping you with a rigorous set of tasks and rules designed to push you beyond your limits and make lasting changes that resonate on and off the golf course. Hear about the life-altering power of commitment through my reflections on personal discipline during Lent, which inspired the creation of the 40-Day FORGE. I draw connections between steadfast dedication and the improvement of your golf game, discussing the transformation that occurs when you hold yourself to a higher standard. I also highlight the importance of community support and the significant role it plays in successful commitments, using our 18STRONG community as a prime example of how shared goals and mutual encouragement can elevate your journey. For all the details about the 40-Day FORGE, click HERE. Get the details for the 40-Day FORGE ???? The 40-Day FORGE Episode Partners: LINKSOUL: For your 20% discount on LINKSOUL gear, go to 18strong.com/linksoul or click the logo above. 1st Phorm: Try any of the 1st Phorm products with FREE SHIPPING, go to 1stphorm.com/18strong.com (By using this link, you will be entered into our Monthly 1st Phorm Giveaway!) More Cool Stuff to Check Out: To continue the conversation and ask any questions you may have, head over to the 18STRONG Movement group on Facebook. 18STRONG Pro Shop (Get your 18STRONG gear!) 18STRONG Resources (All of the cool stuff we recommend: products, books, golf stuff, etc – and discount codes for the 18STRONG Crew) Want the full episode transcript? (click the “+” ????????) 0:00:04 – Jeff PelizzaroThe 18STRONG Podcast, episode Number 362 Revisiting the Forge. Welcome back to the 18STRONG Podcast. This week we’re going to highlight an episode that we did, episode number 335, where we talked about the 40 day forge. The reason we’re doing this is we’re about ready to hit the new year and we know that a lot of you are out there working on what’s my resolution how am I going to change what I did this past year and become a better version of myself in 2024. We know that the 40 day forge is a program that we’ve been doing for several years. We’ve had hundreds of golfers go through it and it’s a mental and physical challenge and program that’s going to help you not just get in better shape, but work on building your habits, building your resiliency and, ultimately building your self-confidence in you becoming a better, stronger version of yourself, which ultimately plays out on the golf course. So enjoy this episode that is a revisited version of 335 on the 40 day forge. Our partners over at Linksoul have been providing us with the best apparel for both on the course and off the course, from polos to t-shirts like the one I have on right now. Everything that they have is meant to be worn from the golf course to wherever you’re going next, whether that be casual, whether that be to the beach, there’s all different options over there. So go to 18strong.com slash Linksoul. You’ll get 20% off of anything in your cart over on Linksoul’s website. So again, 18strong.com slash Linksoul for our favorite brand of apparel, for anything on the golf course and off. Now let’s get to this week’s interview. What’s up, guys? Welcome back to the 18STRONG podcast, where we know the stronger we are, the better we play. And for those of you that have been listening to the 18STRONG podcast for a long time, you notice this episode. The beginning already has a little bit of a different feel to it, and that’s because we’re going to be doing something different on today’s episode. We’re going to be talking about the 40 day forge. You’ve heard me talk about this before and I wanted to lay out the rules, the specifics, the details of the forge, because I’ve had a lot of people asking questions about it, wanting to learn more, or they want to pass it along to somebody else that they know is going to benefit. Now, for those of you that maybe this is your first time listening, maybe somebody introduced you to this episode or sent it to you, or maybe you just stumbled across this not really knowing what to expect. First of all, 18STRONG is a golf lifestyle fitness brand where we are all about helping you become the strongest version of yourself on and off the golf course, and today’s episode, specifically, is a little bit different. Normally, I either interview somebody or we talk about a specific topic regarding golf and fitness and lifestyle and interviewing different people and experts in the world of golf, but today is just going to be me and I’m going to be talking about the 40 day forge, which is a program that we started at the beginning of 2022 and is not just a physical challenge but a mental challenge that many people have now completed, and so I wanted to give more details for everyone out there that has more questions Now, I want to also let you know that this is a program that is completely free. We don’t charge anything for this. There’s no upsells, no downsells. This is something that we are doing because we know the 18STRONG crew is constantly looking for ways to better themselves and, in my personal opinion, there’s so much stuff out there that we all get caught up too much in the not knowing what to do. Thinking we need more information, thinking, we need to learn more thinking. There’s a bright new, shiny object that we haven’t found that’s going to get us where we want to go faster, whether that be our golf game, whether that be our fitness, whether that be our diet, our nutrition, all of these things. But I have personally found over my own experience in the fitness world my own personal fitness, exercise, golf, as well as my experience with hundreds, if not thousands, of golfers in person and online that what we’re all missing is not the what to do or even the how to do. It’s simply the fact that we aren’t doing anything. We aren’t accustomed to finding one thing and sticking to it for a long enough period of time and committing to that, and so that’s what the forage is about is sticking to a commitment and keeping these commitments to yourself. You’re going to hear more about this throughout the episode, so this is how this episode is going to go. I’m going to do my best to answer as many questions and go through the details. There’s basically four parts we’re going to go through today. First is how and why this program came about, because I think that helps explain a little bit of not just the background of it, but why it’s so important and emphasize how impactful this can be to you and to the people around you and why this isn’t just another fitness challenge or diet challenge or cleanse or anything like that New Year’s resolution. The second thing I want to do is I want to go through the exact rules of the forage and why each of these rules was picked, what the specifics are and even ways that people either try to cheat or kind of rationalize the rules or maybe clarify a few things that people have had questions on. The third thing is I want to give you some suggestions Once you decide that you are going to start the 40-day forage, some suggestions for you to get the most out of the program, because the last thing we want to do is have you just mail this in and just kind of go through the motions and not get the full extent out of it. And then, lastly, I’ll talk about maybe a couple frequently asked questions and really what you can expect over the 40 days and what you can expect to accomplish by the end of the 40 days, so you get a better picture of what that can look like 40 days from now. So, first of all, we call this program, the 40-day forage. Obviously, as a golfer, you’ve probably heard the term forged before. Forging versus casting. You hear that with clubs all the time, but forging is basically the process of taking a solid piece of metal, sticking it in a blazing hot fire and then banging it into shape. Now they use heavy fancy equipment and machinery to do this, but even going back to the black smiths of old with knives and swords and those types of things, they would take a piece of metal, they would stick it in a hot furnace and they would bang it into shape to sharpen it and smooth it out. And ultimately, that’s really what this process of these 40 days is meant to do is to sharpen your edges through a series of repetitive challenges that are ultimately going to make you stronger both on and off the golf course. And I want to clarify that if you’re here, you’re obviously likely a golfer, but if you are here for the intention of just dropping a few strokes, that’s not what the 40 day forage is about. In fact, the 40 day forage has a couple of golf components in it, simply because we know that our audience is basically made up of golfers, but this is not specifically about getting you to swing a golf club better. It’s way, way more than that. So just as a little background on how this whole thing came about first of all, we have to face the fact that golf is not necessarily really a sport. That quote, end quote requires you to be in the greatest physical condition. Right Now we’re seeing athletes on the PGA tour, we’re seeing these guys that are coming out and they’re basically physical specimens now. But that doesn’t mean that all of us require incredible athleticism and physical nature and to be in great shape to play a game of golf. We’ve all played with the guy who is very out of shape, overweight, old, has banged up hips, knees, whatever, and can still play a pretty decent round of golf. So it’s not about that. We realize that golf is not a life or death sport, right? So it’s kind of really easy to get by out on the golf course just being in okay shape, and it really kind of gives us the okay to be a little bit lazy with our focus, with our nutrition, with our diet, and we simply start to expect and accept the fact that as we age, we are supposed to have achy joints and we’re supposed to gain some weight and our club head speed is supposed to go down and all these different things I’m supposed to not really look that great with my shirt off, these kind of things and we just assume that’s kind of normal, right. But let me ask you, is that just what you’ve been telling yourself? Because I know that I have found in the past myself telling myself that these things are okay. I’ve been telling myself in my early 40s and it’s okay for me to kind of let these things go a little bit. But that is exactly why we’re here, because, at 18STRONG, we don’t believe that you have to accept that. And so the Forge is here to challenge that narrative that you and I have been telling ourselves and prove that with some direction, some serious commitment and daily action, that you don’t have to tell yourself that same old story, that we can change this right now. You can put yourself on a different trajectory. And, like I said before, I don’t believe that we should fall into the trap of these mantras that we tell ourselves that I don’t have time, I don’t know what to do, or here’s a good one I’ll start it tomorrow, or I’ll start it next week, or I’ll start it after the Masters, or I’ll start it January 1st, all of these things. Well, this is your opportunity to prove to yourself that all of that is BS and that you aren’t going to put it off any longer, and so, hopefully, you’re going to stop searching and you’re going to start doing, because it’s not about not having the right program, it’s not about not knowing the right diet, it’s not about all of these things. It’s about not having the discipline and not having the habits. And so the way that you find discipline is by putting yourself in situations that require discipline. The way that you build habits is by forcing yourself into situations where you need to build habits, and you do them and you commit to it, and that’s what the Forge is about. Okay, real quick. For those of you that are new here and don’t know me from Adam, don’t know 18STRONG or haven’t listened to a show before, I just want to give you a little bit of background on what we do here. Nothing to brag about, anything that we’ve done, but just so you have a little bit of context of where we’re coming from. So my name is Jeff Palazero. Again, I’m a golf fitness professional. Went to school for physical therapy. Had my Masters in physical therapy have been named the past three times. Golf Digest top 50 golf fitness trainer in North America, wrote a book called the Golfers Guide to a Buggy-Proof Workout, and we’ve had the longest running golf and fitness podcast, which started back in 2014. That’s what you’re listening to right now the 18STRONG podcast and we’ve had a chance to have incredible guests on the show PGA tour major winners, some of the best medical and fitness advisors to the PGA tour, some of the greatest instructors in the world and many, many more people even outside the world of golf, all under the guise of helping all of us get better, both on and off the course. 18STRONG was founded by myself and my cousin, ryan. Ryan and I have been best buddies since we were little kids. Ryan is more in the marketing world and is very good at the online stuff. My expertise, obviously, is with the physical and fitness and medical side, and so we combined forces years ago. But most importantly, myself, ryan, we are both guys in our early to mid 40s. We love the game of golf and we are here to not just help you guys but also help ourselves along this journey. I’ve got kids, I have a wife, I run a business. I grew up playing soccer, I didn’t play golf, but now golf is a huge passion of mine and so I obviously want to get better at that. But even more so, I’m constantly on a journey, just like many of you are, to feel as good as I can, to look good, to be strong and to play golf as well as I can. The only way that I can do that is if I keep my body healthy, keep my body moving well, and that’s going to allow us to play the game for much longer. So everybody talks about growing the game. You know, grow the game. I want to lengthen the game. I want to lengthen your game so you can play for the longest amount of time possible as well as you possibly can. So that’s really kind of where we come from, and so I created this program. Ultimately, it was kind of selfishly for myself, and it happened over the course of a couple of years really, but in many ways, I needed to create this program for you, the 18-strong crew, in order to hold myself accountable to doing this as well. So again, this is not a quote-unquote golf fitness program. This is not a weight loss challenge. This is not a nutrition challenge. This is not a cleanse. Ultimately, this is a physical and mental fortitude program. This is a program about you helping yourself become a better you and, to be honest, it was designed in order for all of us to change our perceptions of what we can and can’t do when we really put our focus, really put our attention into the details and into committing to the process and daily tasks. I told you I was going to give you a little bit of history on how this thing occurred and I want to kind of acknowledge a few people and situations that really had an impact on bringing this whole thing to light. So for the past I don’t know five, six years, whatever it might be I have been giving up alcohol for Lent. Lent is the 40 days that lead up to Easter. I grew up in a Catholic education system grade school, high school, jesuit college and Lent has always been something that I have adhered to. And during Lent, typically you’ll give something up or you commit to doing something, and it always fascinated me that, no matter what I gave up for Lent whether, you know, sometimes people will give up sweets or chips or things like that. Since I was a little kid, I can remember whenever I gave something up for Lent, I was dogmatic about sticking to that commitment, and it always kind of fascinated me that there were other things in my life that I would tell myself I was going to do or going to complete, and I didn’t do it. But when Lent came around, I always stuck to that commitment, and without waiver, and I have come to realize that it primarily was the fact that I was committing to something not just for myself, but I was committing to something bigger, and during Lent, it was committing to God that you weren’t going to do whatever you said you weren’t going to do, and that was always pretty intriguing to me, and so I would say that that really was the first facet, the first piece of the puzzle that came into play that eventually brought about the 40-day forge, and in fact, that’s what the 40 days started with, because last year in 2021, I did a version of the forge with just a couple of buddies that I’ll tell you about in just a second here Now, during these last, however many years let’s say, five years when I would give up alcohol for Lent I’d noticed that that ultimately had a very good impact on what I was eating. It had a very good impact on my clarity of mind and for those 40 days I always really felt great, felt very productive, got a lot done, and it was just always a great refreshing time where I was like man, I’m just kind of crushing it by the end of these 40 days. So fast forward a little bit of time and on the podcast I had a chance to interview a gentleman by the name of Ed Milet. Now if you have listened to our show, you’ve heard me talk about Ed Milet a lot of times. It was episode number 216. And I remember it like it was yesterday and Ed said something during that interview that I have probably heard several times before. I know I had heard it on his podcast, but it wasn’t until he was there staring me in the face on our zoom call and he said it and I was looking directly at him that it really hit home and honestly, I feel has kind of changed. It was one of those life changing moments where you you know that that had a huge impact and what Ed said was that self confidence is the process of keeping commitments that you make to yourself, period. And that’s kind of when it hit me that you know that statement right there says so much about every goal that we create for ourselves every fitness goal, every nutrition goal, every golf goal, all of these different things. And you know, during Lent I always felt so good. First, just physically and mentally, because of the nutrition piece, right. But it was also the process of the fact that I was keeping that commitment to myself and I was. I was doing something that I wouldn’t normally do and was able to stick to that commitment. That commitment then snowballed into better commitments of workouts and nutrition and all of those kinds of things, and I realized that this was a very important factor that plays into everything that we do here at 18STRONG and everything that anybody following us is trying to achieve, whether that be for their golf game or their fitness level or the way that their body feels. It all boils down to this and, ultimately, when you show up as a more confident person self confident person on the golf course, in the boardroom, whatever it is, when you’re more self confident because you know you’ve been doing the right things, that plays into the way that you then execute, whatever that thing is. Many times on the golf course, if you know you’ve put the work in, you’ve put the time in, you’re going to step on a tee box much more confident in your golf swing than if you hadn’t. And that small little conversation right there got me thinking a lot about what we do here and how we can help more people. And ultimately, as I boiled it down, I started to notice that there were kind of four big things that factored into people making a commitment, sticking to a commitment and ultimately succeeding. And over the years we’ve done several different trials of this with our online community. We’ve done some small group sessions where we’ve charged a lot of money for people to come in and work in a small setting Online still, but doing their own workouts, but communicating back and forth with us and with different groups and what we’ve noticed is that there were four big things that help almost anybody that we’ve seen massive success with and this includes myself, ryan and all the golfers that we’ve worked with. Four big things. It kind of boiled down to where we saw the most success, in droves really and the first one is that much like for me with Lent, it had to do with you or that individual having something bigger, some sort of a mission, some sort of a target, some sort of a challenge that they were part of. So we did a small group called the RFG the Real Fit Golfers and all of those guys crushed it. I personally have done a couple trail races, trail runs and it’s like anytime I have something like that that I can focus on and train for something bigger than I’m focusing on, I always dedicate it and stuck to my training program. If any of you have run a marathon or done triathlons or gone on a golf trip that you really want to perform on, you have these things that you’re looking forward to, that you want to reach your pinnacle and so you put the time and effort in to get there and that’s really one of the big reasons why, for me, lent was always one of those things that I stuck to. The second thing and this kind of goes along the same lines is that you’re committed to a group or to something bigger. So really that kind of speaks to the Lenten thing of being a part of a team. I always grew up playing team sports. Like I said, didn’t really play golf growing up, but having a team beside me, working for the team, not having an individualized goal, but knowing that if I succeeded or failed, it was in helping the team and people relying on me. The same went for our small group settings with our guys. If you have a team that you’re committed to, you have other people that you’re also accountable to, and so I saw that that was a big factor of bringing a team together having people work together to support each other or to push each other or to be supported when they needed to be supported. That was huge. The third is something that I don’t see a whole lot outside of kind of the fitness community. Some of the trainers that I know and people that are working with trainers is having some sort of keeping of being able to keep score. As golfers, we keep score on the golf course, right, but when you’re trying to make a big change, if it’s transform your body, if it’s lose weight, whatever it is, if it’s gain swing speed, are you keeping track? Are you keeping score? Are you having some way of saying, yes, I did what I needed to do, or no, I didn’t? Am I getting better? Am I getting worse? Am I staying the same? So, keeping score just like you would. In a fitness program, we have all of our clients track the weights that they use, and so you can see the progress or maybe take a picture of yourself so you can see yourself looking better. Keeping score is a big part of making that change and keeping that commitment. And then, the last thing I think is probably the most important, and if you’re in a situation where you’re trying to make some sort of a big change which, let’s face it, all of us if you’re listening to this episode, still, you’re interested in changing something. But the fourth piece here is that you don’t commit wholeheartedly unless you’re really ready to make that change. And I like to think of my younger brother, scott, when I think of this, because he was a smoker for a long period of time, and it’s probably been over 10 years now. But there was just one point where he and his girlfriend at the time now wife decided you know what? We don’t want to be smokers anymore, we’re done. And they quit cold turkey. Still to this day, I’m amazed at how they did it, but they just shut it off. And you see that with people that stop drinking alcohol, you see that with people that make a massive change in their lifestyle and all of a sudden they go from being the fat person to now the super fit person, these people were ready to make that change and, believe me, I’ve tried to help people that come in here with good intentions but aren’t quite ready to make the change yet and they just aren’t dedicated to changing their nutrition, changing their habits, changing their workouts and just doing the small, consistent things that they need to do. Nothing has to happen overnight, nothing’s going to change overnight dramatically, but it’s getting in that mindset of, hey, this is for the long haul and doing these things consistently are going to make a big, big deal. So, with all four of those things in mind, that kind of got me thinking about what we could do here at 18STRONG and really kind of got me thinking about what I could do personally to develop something to help me with my own personal habits. So last year is really where the idea of the Forge came about. In 2021. When Lent came around, I was going to do my typical give up booze for Lent you know, don’t touch any alcohol for the 40 days and then I kind of thought back to my conversation with Ed, thought about these things that we’d been talking about a lot on the podcast and really just was ready to step it up a little bit, and so that’s when I decided to enlist a couple friends of mine, a couple college buddies the two Pats, ted, and another buddy from Kansas City, rob and reached out and said hey guys, here’s what I’m doing. I’m giving up booze for Lent, but I’m going to take it up a notch and I’m going to do these couple of things every day, want to see if you guys would be interested. And they all shot back yes, I’m in. This was 2021 when, you know, covid was still keeping people pretty separate. People were still staying at home, a lot weren’t getting out, nearly as much weren’t going to the gym, and I think everybody was ready for some sort of a change all of these guys. And so we embarked on this journey and those 40 days were really. They were transformative for all of us. We got together at the end of those 40 days and talked about basically everybody lost 20, 15 pounds. All of those guys were looking to lose some weight. I was looking to do some some leaning out and, just, you know, better habits, and we all saw massive, massive changes. But what struck me the most was, when you get these guys started talking about the mental change that had on all of them, and I experienced it too. First of all, they felt like they had a purpose every day, working, getting up and communicating with each other, sending texts to each other, supporting each other, but also the fact that they were mentally much stronger, not just keeping their commitments, but you know, when you haven’t hung out with people for a long time, it can get pretty, you can go into some weird mental spaces, and I think that many people over the past couple of years have either fought some depression or gotten into these times where you’re just in a funk, right, and so this really helped everybody in this situation get out of that funk. And that was one thing that I really really thought was cool about just getting moving more and having a purpose behind your movement and building your habits. And then I noticed that these guys kept a lot of these habits after these 40 days, and so then that’s when the light bulb kind of went on and we were like, okay, we’re going to do something like this for the 18STRONG crew, and that’s where we then came up with all right, the 40 day forge and, as I mentioned, forge is the name of you know a way to build irons and to basically mold them to be as strong as possible, and that was really the idea is, how do we create something that’s going to help people build habits, help them mold themselves? And so after the 40 days, it’s not just like your typical cleanse or whatever it is, where people are just going to go back to their old habits. They’re going to go in some crash diet for 40 days, lose a bunch of weight. That wasn’t the intent. So, thinking about the way that we were going to structure this and the couple of things that the few things that I wanted to include in there that we have been preaching for years at 18STRONG, if any of you have heard of the 75 hard program, which was started by a guy named Andy for cella, who is happens to be another St Louis guy, a guy that went to a neighboring high school. That of me went to high school called Viany, here in St Louis. I went to slew high and so we kind of hung around the same people in high school and Andy has created now this huge supplement company called 1st Phorm and he started the 75 hard program, which ultimately has changed hundreds of thousands of people’s lives, taking them through 75 days Of daily tasks, multiple workouts a day. There’s a lot to it. It’s a pretty intense program and by all means, if you want to go check out the 75 Hard Program, go do that. But I knew that I loved the premise of the program, I loved what he was doing and I knew that we could do something like that for our crew here at 18STRONG, but something that was modeled more for our guys and girls and their lifestyles. And so I looked at that model and kind of decided you know what? Let’s kind of follow that model that Andy has put together, because if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. So the 40-day forge is basically 40 days of completing seven daily tasks where every single day you check off on your list and we have some resources for you to print out. If you go to 18strong.com, slash the forge, you’ll put your email address in. It’ll take you over to the page. It gives you all the resources. But we’ve got a calendar where every single day you check off the seven things that I’m going to go through in just a minute as to whether you did them or didn’t do them. And if you go 40 days straight without missing a single task, then you are considered to be forged and those are basically the rules. 40 days straight, you complete all seven tasks every single day. If you miss one of the tasks, it’s considered a DNF or a WD, however you want to say. In the Gulf world it’s often WD, withdrawal, dnf has did not finish. And I know that that sounds extremely harsh, that if you miss one little simple task that you have to start the whole program over or that you’re out of the program. And it’s not meant to be a punishment, but it’s meant to make you focus on the details of the program Because, again, this isn’t just a fitness program. This is a program that’s going to help you in all assets mentally, physically, emotionally, all of these different things. And, to be honest, at first, when I was putting this together, I had kicked around the idea of you know, if you miss a day, maybe you tack on two days at the end, or you know having some of these different rules, and it just I started to think no, that’s not what this is about. This is supposed to be hard. This isn’t supposed to be some cakewalk where you can make your way through it and if you make a couple of mistakes, no big deal, because, let’s face it, that’s what we already do. And if you let those little things slide, then you continue to let the habits slide and then you find yourself back right where you were. And so we decided that’s where the hashtag no more mulligans came up Because it’s time to stop giving yourself the leeway, it’s time to stop giving ourselves this little plan B where you know you screw up and all well, no big deal. Because, again, golf, it’s really easy to get complacent, it’s easy to hit that shot in the woods and be like, ah well, whatever, you know rounds over, I’m playing again tomorrow, I’ll get it back. You know we’ll have fun tomorrow. That’s not the mentality here. The mentality is you’re going all in for 40 days because you know that at the end of the 40 days, what lies there is so much better than you taking that little shortcut right now. And I will tell you, most of you not some of you, most of you will screw up in the 40 days. And how do I know this? Because I did it myself On day 20,. I missed one of the tasks. I didn’t cheat on my meals, I didn’t cheat on my alcohol. I simply forgot to do something, which I’m going to go through the seven tasks here in just a minute. I forgot to do it and at first a wave of panic washed over me when I woke up that next morning and realized that I had forgotten to do some mobility exercises. And I went through all these different emotions of you know maybe nobody will know because obviously nobody will know, because I’m the only one that knew I didn’t do it. But then I owned up to it. In fact there’s even a video still that I will always leave up in the Facebook group of the day that I realized this happened. And I owned up to the group and I said I’m starting a new day, one today. So 20 days in, I’m halfway through the thing and 20 days in I realized that I screwed up and so I had to start it all over. So ultimately, in order for me to get to my forge, I had to go 60 days straight of these next seven tasks. But I will say that those having to do that, having to own up, was one of the best things that could have happened to me. First of all, it made me stick with these habits even harder for the next 40 days, and I made a vow to myself to go even harder for those 40 days. But when I let other people know that I, jeff the one that started this thing, that I effed up. I think that gave people a lot of leeway to realize like, oh geez, I screwed up too. And I had several people reach out and say, oh man, I screwed up last week, but I didn’t want to say anything. I’m going to start over with you, because I got sick last week and had a bunch of people that had gotten sick and so they decided, you know, they were going to start it again with me, and so we had a whole crew that started over that same day, which I thought was awesome. Okay, I know I’m rambling. I told you I would. But let’s go through the seven non-negotiable daily tasks and for each day of the 40 day program you’re going to do every single one of these. Again, I mentioned 18strong.com, slash, theforge. All one word Go there. You’ll put your email address and you can get all the printable resources. We have a printable calendar of the 40 days. We’ve got a couple lists, or a list of all seven tasks that I printed out and I put all over my house, especially after I screwed up. I put one in my office, I put one on my nightstand, I put one on the fridge just so I would see it all the time and be able to kind of check it off before I went to bed. So you can go and print those out. We’ve even got a couple screensavers for your phone, so every time you click your phone on you see the forge there. So here are the seven tasks of the 40 day forge. Task number one is that you’re going to drink at least 24 ounces of water at the beginning of your day. This is going to be the first thing that hits your lips in the morning. I highly recommend that you put a squeeze of lemon in it, because there’s some benefits to having lemon in it. But primarily, I know that sometimes you’re traveling and maybe you don’t have lemons on hand. So we said 24 ounces of water First thing that hits your lips every day. If you’re fasting and you don’t take in any liquids or food till lunchtime, still make sure that that water is the first thing to hit your lips. Now, why do I say lemon water? Because some of the benefits of squeezing a fresh lemon into your water and I typically do a quarter of a lemon or a half of a lemon there’s several different benefits. First, just doing this gets you hydration immediately in the morning after you’ve been sleeping. You’ve been fasting for about six to eight hours, whatever you’ve been sleeping. Getting that into your system quickly is going to help everything work better for the rest of the day. Also, we know that as a society we tend to not get enough hydration, and so this is a way for you to get a head start during your day. A loose rule of thumb is that you should be drinking about half of your body weight in ounces of water. So if you’re a 200 pound person, you should be drinking roughly 100 ounces of water per day. If you knock out 24 ounces first thing in the morning, you’re already a quarter of the way there almost. But throwing a lemon in it also helps with immunity. You get a lot of vitamin C, which is also good for your skin and for overall health because of the antioxidants. It helps absorb iron better, it improves your digestion and helps reduce your risk of kidney stones. So there’s a lot of different benefits. Primarily the hydration, though, of just getting the water. In A quick note, with the lemon water, the lemon can be a little hard on your teeth, on your enamel, and may exacerbate heartburn. So if that’s the case for you and you’re concerned about that, just stick with the regular water, okay. Number two is what we call our Move EFD, or our daily motion program. Efd stands for Every Effing Day, because this is something that we have our golfers do every effing day. I do this every effing day even when I’m not doing the forage, and it’s because it’s so important. Now, this is a small little daily mobility routine that you will get delivered to you. When you go to that page, 18strong.com, slash the forage, you will get access to the videos for the EFD. This is a program that we have had in all of our online fitness programs, and it takes five to ten minutes every single day. Once you get the hang of the different motions, you can really do it in five to seven minutes or so. It’s meant to get your body moving from head to toe. It’s going to increase your range of motion at your neck, your shoulders, your trunk, your shoulder blades, your hips, your low back, your knees, your ankles all of these different things that are super important for you as a golfer to make sure that you’re moving well. Our bodies suffer injuries when they’re not prepared for whatever stress happens to them. So this is one way for us to get our body moving in so many different directions that you’re kind of prepping it for the stresses that are going to occur in daily life as well as on the golf course. So this is a way to kind of help build good stress on your joints, your muscles, your tendons, all of these different things. It’s going to increase what we call the pliability or the tensile strength of these different tissues. It’s going to help you move a little bit better. What golfer doesn’t want to move better? And here’s a little fun fact for those of you that have any kind of joint pain aches, pains, typically where you have your pain is not necessarily the actual cause of your pain. The cause of the pain is that something else isn’t moving very well, and whatever part of your body is hurting is then taking up the brunt of it because something else is stuck. So if we get everything moving well, odds are you’re going to be experiencing less pain in whatever area hurts. Typically for golfers, this can be the low back. If your hips aren’t moving well, your shoulders aren’t moving well, your low back is going to take up a lot of the stress. So this is going to definitely help. This, we like to say, also keeps you perpetually warmed up so you’re always ready to perform. This is a great little warm up that you can do before you run off golf, before your workout, so you’re always ready to go. And lastly, doing some sort of movement every single day, especially if you do this in the morning, which is when I recommend you do it. You don’t have to, but it improves your mood, it improves your energy, it gets your blood flowing right away, which is great for everything. It’s great for your mental acuity, it’s great for your mood, your attitude. Just getting blood flowing through your body provides nutrition to everything to the muscles, to the organs, everything that you need. And so, again, that’s why we call it our EFD, because we want you doing this every effing day. Okay, number three is a 10 minute meditation or breathing routine, or even just deep breathing for 10 minutes. This is meant to help you unplug from everything else and to just kind of tune into your body, tune into your surroundings, tune into nature. So we are embedded with distractions every single day our phones, the TV, computers, people, everything. There’s so much going on around us that rarely do we take the time to sit quietly and just enjoy our surroundings. No longer are we a society that can ever get bored, because we’ve always got something to stare at right. So the idea here is to put your phone down, to not use a device unless you’re using it for like a guided meditation or some sort of meditative music. Otherwise, we don’t want you taking any input in. So I don’t want you reading, I don’t want you listening to an audio book unless it’s like a guided meditation to help you relax or help you focus. That doesn’t count for your 10 minutes. This is going to provide a break from the constant stimulation that surrounds us all the time. It’s an opportunity for us to appreciate and be present, which is so hard for us to do. So this is going to be a way to help you improve your control over your emotions, over your energy, over how you’re feeling on a regular basis, and how beneficial will that be when you’re out on the golf course. We’ve talked many times to Gary, nicole and Carl Morris about the importance of using a bit of a walking meditation in between shots, taking time to chill out. This is going to help you with your focus level, and there’s a couple of great resources that I would recommend. If you’re new to meditation, if you’re new to breathing exercises. Wim Hof, w-i-m last name H-O-F is a great resource for some breathing techniques, and you’ll hear his name in the next daily task as well. Amishi Ja just wrote a book called Peak Mind, which is incredible about focus and beginner level meditation. There’s meditation for beginners by a guy named Jack Cornfield, so there’s many different resources for you to check out and if this is something you’ve never done, I encourage you to really embrace this and look into utilizing this as a daily habit beyond the 40 days, for your golf, for your mental health, for your fitness level. Okay, the fourth task is a one minute cold shower or cold plunge. Now, this is probably the one that has gotten the most pushback initially when I announced the daily task to the 40 day forge. So this means at the end of your shower. This is what I would recommend. At the end of your shower, you turn the hot water all the way off, you turn the cold water all the way on and you stand in that for one minute straight. Or, if you have the opportunity to do a cold plunge, maybe you live near or you’re out by a river or something like that and you have cold water that you can jump in. I would highly suggest doing that, or an ice bath, a cold plunge for one minute. Now why the heck would I do this? Many of you that played athletics back in the day have probably experienced a cold bath or a cold plunge and you realize that it’s a pretty shocking event. That’s part of it. That’s part of why we’re doing this is basically just to change your state. This is a great thing to do again in the morning when you’re just getting ready to start your day. It changes your state. It changes your energy level and your mood and really kind of weights you up. There’s also a lot of science showing that it helps to reduce stress levels. It helps improve your alertness and your awareness and it helps improve your response, your immunity response, which obviously we know that that’s a big thing that we need to worry about these days. The healthier we are, the more likely we’re going to be able to fight off infections and viruses and things like that. But I think the biggest I know this the biggest benefit of the cold shower is the fact that you don’t want to take the cold shower. That’s it. That’s Ed’s statement. Keeping promises to yourself. That’s it in a nutshell. You said you were going to take a cold shower and you really don’t want to take a cold shower, but you took the cold shower anyway, I guarantee you. I have heard from almost every person that I have communicated with that has done the 40-day forage. Many times they communicate first saying that they don’t want to take the cold shower, but then afterwards they say how much they love it. Almost every single person has continued doing the cold showers after they finished their 40 days. It’s that staring yourself in the face. This happens to me every single morning. I’ve been doing a cold shower for close to two years now, every single morning. I look at it and I’m like I really don’t want to do it, but I do it anyway, and that’s the point doing it when you don’t want to do it. One I didn’t mention, which many of you will really be appreciative of, is cold showers have also been shown to help increase your ability to burn fat. If that helps out with it as well, that’s one of those logical reasons that will maybe help push you over the edge Again. Wim Hof is the guy who really pioneered the whole cold shower, cold plunges and deep breathing exercises. He’s got a book called the Wim Hof Method, which I recommend you listening or reading if you’re interested in learning a little bit more about that. Task number five is an intentional physical activity. This means that for 40 consecutive minutes or more, you can do more. You have to do an intentional physical activity that, in one way or another, challenges you. The intent behind this is that you are exercising or doing something pretty physical every single day. We like to say we don’t care what you do, just do something and do it every day. So this could be resistance training. This could be hiking, biking, practicing golf. This could be playing a round of golf. This could be a hit workout. This could be rocking, which has become a favorite of mine, throwing a backpack on and throwing a weight in the backpack All of these different things. The intention is simply to get you moving every single day in one way, shape or form. Now, everyone is going to have a different version of this, of what is right for them and what challenges them. The importance is that you look at this as a challenge. I don’t want you just going for a stroll and walking the dog and thinking like, oh, I’m just going to walk the dog for 40 days. Well, that’s probably something you already do, so how can you challenge yourself a little bit? There were days when walking the dog was my physical activity. On those days, I threw a rucksack on, not saying you have to do that, or I would take the dog and walk a few hills while we did that and make it a little bit more challenging. For many of you, you’re going to have a strength training program that you’re on, or you want to be on, a strength training program. Obviously, we have programs that you can utilize here at 18STRONG, but this program, the 40 Day Forge, is not just for people following 18STRONG programs. In fact, we’ve got tons of friends that are professionals in the golf fitness world that we would highly recommend. Many of you may already be doing some of their programs. Take that program and use that as your IPA is what we call it your intentional physical activity. We have several of those golf fitness professionals doing the 40 Day Forge or have done the 40 Day Forge. So our mission is to push forward the idea that us, as golfers, we’re kind of a new breed of golfer, where we live an active lifestyle, we’re healthy, we’re fit, we love to play golf, we love to enjoy life and we’re dialing in good habits. So, no matter who you are, no matter what fitness program you’re following, I don’t really care. That’s not the point of this. Like I’ve said many times, following any kind of a program, even a mediocre program, consistently is going to produce way better results than finding the greatest program and not staying consistent to it. And just one more note on that if you start the 40 Day Forge and maybe something low key is your activity, maybe walking is the thing that you start with, the goal here is to then try to push yourself through those 40 days, and I know many people that do this. They did the same thing with the cold shower. They start with the one minute cold shower. One guy was, by the end of the challenge, he was up to an eight minute cold shower just because he loved the idea of pushing himself a little bit further. So, doing things that are a little bit harder, you’re going to find and I’ll mention this at the very end, but you’re going to find that as you start to do these things and you realize you’re doing something that other people may think you’re crazy for and that other people aren’t willing to work as hard at. You’re going to find yourself thinking, man, I want to do a little bit more, I want to push myself a little bit more. You’re going to start finding opportunities to make yourself better that you didn’t even see before, and that’s going to be one of the biggest benefits here. Task number six this is the big one. In fact, this is the biggest one, especially for any of you that are looking for a physical change. You’re looking to lose fat, you’re looking to lean out, you’re looking for some body composition changes too. Number six is no cheat nutrition. So you’re going to check off on your sheet that you didn’t cheat on your nutrition or alcohol consumption. Now, we are all about having fun, having some cocktails, having a couple beers here and there, but during the 40 day forge, there’s absolutely no alcohol, which I know it pains me just to say it. But no alcohol for the 40 days. And this kind of goes back to my Lenten promise that I’ve done the last several years no alcohol for 40 days and no cheating on your diet. Now, what does that mean? Not cheating on your diet? Well, we are not going to give you a nutrition program. We are not going to tell you what you should and shouldn’t eat, because I don’t think that that necessarily is up to me. Everybody kind of has their own proper ways of eating or lifestyle. That’s a very big thing. You can’t just blanket statement what somebody should and shouldn’t eat. Now we have our guidelines that we like to live by here, and you can find those on our resource page too. We call it our nutrition stack, but we’re proponents of pretty much just eating lean meat, vegetables, good fruits, good fats. You know the standards, but for the 40 days, the key here is that you need to know exactly what is allowed and what is not allowed on your nutrition plan. This is not necessarily meant to be oh well, I’m going to give up chips or I’m going to give up sweets. This should be an overall I’m eating healthy kind of a plan. Now again, I’m not going to tell you exactly what that is. You can either find some resources to help you out with that you can ask us and we’re happy to help you with that but this is up to you. This whole program is up to you. The idea is for you to be self-sufficient in finding these things, helping to empower you to take action on these. But you need to know exactly what it means. Did I cheat or did I not cheat? I continue to get a lot of questions about this one from people regarding whether this counts or whether that counts. Again, most of the time I’m going to tell you I don’t know, that’s up to you, but we like to employ here at 18STRONG the don’t be stupid rule. So I like to think if you asked a fifth grader, is that healthier, is that not healthy? And they knew the difference, then you probably know what you should and shouldn’t be eating on your nutrition program. But make sure you write it out and you can blankly say yes or no, I cheated or did not cheat, okay. And the final task is and this one is specifically for you guys, the golfers out there 15 golf swings, right-handed and left-handed, every single day, and do this without a golf ball. So we threw this in there. Obviously, we knew that this program is primarily for golfers. Now, if you’re not a golfer and you were forwarded this, I have another suggestion for you in a second. But 15 golf swings, right-handed, left-handed, every single day, and this does multiple things. It gets your body moving in both directions. We basically rotate one way all of our life Swing in a baseball bat, swing in a golf club, it’s typically all the same. So this gets us moving in a different direction, which helps with our balance. It helps with our proprioception, which is our awareness of our body in space. It also helps with accelerating and decelerating in both directions. Now I don’t propose that you swing as fast as possible in your non-dominant direction, because I think that without the coordination being built up, there is an opportunity for you to injure yourself or create some tweaks or strains, things like that. So on the non-dominant side, just do it smartly, right, don’t try to overdo it, don’t hurt yourself. I also say don’t do this with a golf ball because I want you to be less technical about these golf swings. I want you to almost visualize your golf swing, visualize what the ball is doing for each swing, so you kind of get that body moving. Because you’re creating this visualization not necessarily based on the contact that you felt or your club position. In fact, you could do these swings without a golf club. You could do it with a broomstick, you could do it with a PVC pipe. I did it with an umbrella. One night, one night, I forgot to do my golf swings earlier in the day and I was taking my daughter to the Fox Theater for a show and I forgot that I didn’t do my swings and I knew we were going to get home late. So, as we were parking, I stepped out, grabbed my umbrella from my trunk and did my swings right next to the parking garage, and the people walking down the street thought I was crazy. But I got my stuff done, which is one of those things that you would never do unless you were tracking and making sure that you did the habits that you said you were going to do. So I looked crazy, but I got my stuff done. So 15 swings right handed and left handed. Now, if you are not a golfer and you still want to participate in the forage, I encourage you to find some sort of physical task that you can supplement. In here I’ve had somebody decide to do planks, like a one minute plank on their elbows forward and then a side plank one minute on each side. I thought that was a good one. Another one that I suggested to somebody, because I know most people don’t necessarily get up and down off the floor and as people age, that tends to become one of the hardest things that clients of mine complain about as they get into the older years is getting up and down from the floor. So one thing would be lay down on the floor on your stomach and get up 10 times. Lay down on the floor on your back and get up 10 times. I don’t care what it is, just find something physical that you can do that doesn’t interrupt one of the other tasks and do it, commit to it and do it On your sheet. You can just check that off where it says golf swings. Now, one note with all of these tasks is that each task is to be completed individually, so there’s no overlap. So your EFDs do not count in your 40 minutes of your IPA, or if you’re playing golf and you’re using that as your physical activity really if you’re playing golf at all your practice swings don’t count as your 15 golf swings. Do those 15 swings either before you play your round of golf, when you’re warming up, or after or some other time during the day. You’re not allowed to overlap your different activities. My last note on the seven daily task is don’t over complicate this. Look at the tasks and take them pretty black and white. I’ve got a lot of questions that really didn’t need to be questions, and it’s us going into that confusion mode. That is really a delay tactic. So just see it for what it is, and either you did it or you didn’t do it. Don’t over complicate the different tasks. For example, I don’t really care how cold the cold shower is there’s not a temperature that I’m looking for but turn the hot water all the way off, turn the cold water all the way on. Sometimes it’s questions like those that actually keep people from taking action, which is really silly. We all do it, so don’t fall into that trap, okay, lastly, I have just a few suggestions on how to get the most out of this program, because if you’re doing this and you’re ready to commit to it, you want to make sure that you get the most out of it. In 40 days doesn’t sound like that long of a time, but you’re going to go through roller coasters of emotions when it comes to this thing. There’s going to be times when you think why am I doing this stupid thing? I thought that throughout. Why did I start this? Why am I doing this? And so you need to have a bit of a backup plan to help get you through those. I call it kind of the tail of two golfers. We all have the two golfers inside of ourselves, kind of a Jekyll and Hyde theme. And many times it’s in the morning. We start out fresh, we start out like, hey, I’m going to crush today, it’s going to be awesome. And then you get home by the end of the day You’re worn out, you’re tired, you’re hungry and it’s like f that I can do that tomorrow and you blow off your workout or you blow off your good meal, or you decide I just want to have one drink and you have a drink and that leads to two drinks or three drinks and that leads to you eating a bag of chips on a Saturday night, watching Netflix, watching Narcos and I may have just given you a glimpse into a couple of my Saturday nights in the past. It’s those times when you need to have something bigger than you to say, no, I’m not falling into that trap again. That’s happened too many times. So here’s the deal. I first suggest that you really figure out why you’re doing this. What do you hope to gain in these 40 days and, if it helps, write it on the back of your calendar. Write out why you’re doing this. Are you doing this for you? Are you doing this to get your body to feel better? Are you doing this to look better? Are you doing this because you need a change in your mental attitude? Are you doing this because you want to play better golf? Whatever it is, you’ve got your own reason, but write it down and look at it every single day, or at least on the days when you’re feeling like shit and you don’t want to do what you have to do left. You’re sitting on the couch 9.30 at night, you’re getting ready to go to bed and you realize you didn’t do your meditation or your daily motion, which that’s what I forgot. On my 20th day. We went out, we had a Christmas party for the gym and I forgot to do my daily motion, came home, went to bed and totally forgot. So, trust me, you have to have a plan to make sure that you’re checking these things off. Second thing I suggest is take a picture of yourself before beginning this, preferably where you can see your body. So, if you’re a guy, take your shirt off. If you’re a lady, in a sports bra and underwear or yoga pants or whatever, so you can see what your body looks like, because I guarantee 40 days of eating well, not drinking, exercising every single day, you’re going to notice some pretty serious physical changes. In fact, I was just joking with somebody a couple of days ago because I’ve had so many friends that have started doing this now that I’ve gotten a lot of text messages, kind of as accountability messages, guys sending me their before pictures. And I said, man, I hope nobody hacks into my phone and sees that I got a bunch of pictures of half naked dudes in my DMs because it would look really, really weird. But I also think it’s pretty cool that these guys are committing and sending that to me and I take that to heart, that these guys are trusting me, first of all not to show them on social media and to the rest of our friends, but also that they’re saying, hey, I’m ready to do this thing, here’s my ticket to ride and I’m in. So take some pictures of yourself and even take them weekly. You’ll see a big difference from week to week to week. Next suggestion is write down what physical aches and pains and things you have going on or that you’ve been dealing with lately, to be able to compare those by the end of the 40 days, or write down maybe the moods that you’ve experienced, the attitude, whatever it is that you’ve been struggling with a little bit. Write that stuff down and see where that is in 40 days and how this has impacted you. The next piece I mentioned it’s important to be a part of a community, to be a part of a team. So we have our 18STRONG Facebook group. It’s called the 18STRONG Movement, and I highly, highly, highly suggest that you jump into that group to join in on the conversation, to be in a group of supportive people many that have done this. We’ve got a lot of our friends that are fitness professionals, golf pros, instructors that are in that group too, that are just great to bounce ideas off of, but it’s all a group of like-minded people in the 18STRONG crew that are looking to get better. They love to play golf and, who knows, you might even find a new golf buddy when you’re out of town on a golf trip or something. But I think it’s really important to have that community surrounding us when we’re embarking on a challenging journey like this, because typically the people in your social circle aren’t going to know what the hell you’re doing and are going to think you’re a weirdo, to be honest, and we celebrate those weirdos. We celebrate the fact that we’re different and we’re doing things. When I’m over at the park with a backpack on and weight in my backpack and I’m walking the dog up and down the hill, sometimes walking backwards, and I got people looking at me like what the hell is this guy doing? I’m thinking I’d have a whole crew of 18STRONG golfers here with me doing this if they were here, but I don’t have them here. So I’m the weirdo at the park. But you can be that weirdo, you can be the person that does it differently, but you have this crew, you have this community that’s behind you. And then I think even more important or even more beneficial is find somebody in your group, find somebody that you are friends with already and enlist them as your partner to do this with, enlist them in the same journey. You know somebody that’s kind of looking to do the same thing with you, because then you’ve got that accountability built in right there. It’s like having a workout buddy that you know is going to be at the gym If you don’t show up, you’re going to get shit. So you can play off of each other, support each other, push each other and you’re going to hopefully find that competitive nature that’s in you to push yourself a little bit harder and want to go a little bit harder than your buddy does. And then the last piece of advice I have here is just use the support materials that we have in place for you. Use the calendar, use the tracking sheet, use the visual checklist, because, much like I did, if you don’t have that plan in play to check off everything before you go to bed, you’re going to find yourself slipping, you’re going to find yourself forgetting something, and then you’re going to be you’re going to be stuck in that dilemma of shit. I’ve been doing this for 10 days. I’ve been doing this for 17 days. I’ve been doing this, for we had one guy, todd. He did it for 35 days and then he had a situation that kind of blew up on him. He didn’t plan for his eating and he screwed up on his diet. And guess what Todd did? He sent me a note and he said day one starts tomorrow and he started back over again. So Todd in all did, I believe, over 75 days for his forge. But that’s what it was about. It was about him taking ownership, saying, man, I effed up, but I’m not going to let this get me down. And, believe me, there are plenty of emotions that go with that decision. And then, during that next 40 days, there’s plenty of times where it’s like, man, I shouldn’t have started over. But when you finish and you can ask Todd, maybe we’ll have Todd on the show. I know we’re going to have some people on the show that have done the 40 day forge and get their experience, but I guarantee he felt like a champion when he finished that final day of the forge, knowing that he pushed through and made that decision. So, before I close out this episode which thanks for sticking with my rambling here I know this has gone a lot longer than I intended it to, but many people have asked us why we’re doing this and, honestly, hopefully the people that have been following 18STRONG for a long time already understand the reason. But we are basically here to push forward the idea that all of us can achieve more and that we deserve the best that life has to offer. And that starts with how you treat yourself. That starts with how you show up every single day. And, believe me, as I mentioned at the very beginning of this episode. This challenge is as much for me as it is for you. This is something that I continue to work on, I continue to struggle with and I by no means have all of this life stuff figured out, all of this fitness and nutrition and golf stuff figured out the golf specifically but our mission here is to help as many people as possible, bring as many people into the 18STRONG crew as we possibly can and help them with as much as they can, because we know that by creating a better, stronger golfer, that will play out in your golf game. But to me, I’m much less passionate about increasing your swing speed or dropping your handicap than I am helping you to play with less pain, play a lot longer, be able to play with your kids, your grandkids, whatever that might be, go on great trips with your buddies. That’s what 18STRONG is to us. And so my question for you is what is 18STRONG to you? How can you become 18STRONG? And I think the 40 day forage is just the beginning of getting all of us closer to what that definition is of 18STRONG. So, as we close out this episode, really there’s just one decision that you need to make, and that decision is am I going to take the plunge and am I going to choose to take the next 40 days as a head start to building some of the greatest habits that I’ve built in years, to becoming the strongest, healthiest version of myself? And when I say strongest, I mean mentally and physically strong. The definition of strength is the ability to withstand great force or pressure. It’s not always about how much can you lift on a barbell. It’s about mentally, physically, emotionally. What can we stand? When can we bounce back? And that’s what the forage is about is looking our challenges in the face, overcoming them. Looking at our commitments in the face and sticking to them when the times get tough. That’s what the 40 day forage is about. So, if you are ready to take this journey, we are here to help you as much as possible and, to be completely honest, my vision is that this is something that just lives indefinitely, and thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of golfers utilize this program to catapult them into better habits that then allow them to play their greatest golf, live their healthiest life and really enjoy and be prepared for all of the adventures that we all have in front of us. So again, 18strong.com, slash the forage. Put your email in. You’ll get all the instructions, all the support materials. Again, there’s nothing here to buy. We’re not here to sell you one single thing. All I ask is that, if you do decide to do the forage, don’t put it off, don’t try to schedule out. Oh, the next 40 days are tough. I’ve got this event. I’ve got this event. Decide to do it and start it very, very soon. If you have a friend that you want to enlist, send them this episode, send them the website link. And if I could just ask you one favor listening to this episode. If you got anything out of this, if you think that this is an important mission, if you think that this is going to help you or your friends or somebody that you know, or maybe just some random golfer that comes across, whatever social media you have, please pass along this episode, this episode number 335 on the 18STRONG podcast. It will also be linked up on that same page, 18strong.com, slash the forage. You can just tell people to go straight to that link right there, because we’re on a mission to change a lot of golfer’s lives and we can do that with your help. So thank you for joining me on this little bit different episode of the 18STRONG podcast. We’ll catch up with you soon. Stay strong. Thanks for listening to the 18STRONG podcast and if you found this episode helpful, don’t forget to share it with your friends. And, of course, go follow us over on Instagram @18STRONG. Thanks again. We’ll catch up with you next week. Train hard, practice smart and play better golf.

<img loading="lazy" decoding="async" width="1024" height="576" src="https://18strong.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/Mike-Carroll-1-1024x576.png" alt="Mike Carroll Fit For Golf" class="wp-image-16989" srcset="https://18strong.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/Mike-Carroll-1-1024x576.png 1024w, https://18strong.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/Mike-Carroll-1-300x169.png 300w, https://18strong.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/Mike-Carroll-1-768x432.png 768w, https://18strong.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/Mike-Carroll-1-150x85.png 150w, https://18strong.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/Mike-Carroll-1-600x338.png 600w, https://18strong.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/Mike-Carroll-1.png 1280w" sizes="(max-width: 1024px) 100vw, 1024px" /> Guest: Mike Carrol (Fit For Golf)Host: Jeff PelizzaroEpisode Number: 361Podcast: The 18STRONG PodcastPartners: Linksoul, 1stPhorm Summary Listen in as we welcome Mike Carroll, the mastermind behind Fit for Golf, to the 18STRONG Podcast. Our conversation takes a thorough look at fitness within the realm of golf, exploring how strength and speed training can lead to significant improvements in your game. Mike brings his unique insights into training golfers and shares valuable dos and don&#8217;ts for consulting with professional golfers. He shares how he primarily works with them remotely, showing the flexibility and adaptability of his methods. As we continue, we explore the significance of physical training in golf, focusing on swing speed and its relationship to the technical aspects of the game. We discuss the importance of understanding the biomechanics of the swing and how to enhance the physical qualities that contribute to it. There&#8217;s a focus on prioritizing physical training to improve physical qualities while using practice time for skill development. Listen closely as we caution against getting too wrapped up in specific exercises that may not significantly impact performance. Our guest Mike, a prominent figure in the world of golf fitness, offers his insights on long-term physical training structure. He recommends three training sessions per week focusing on strength training, cardiovascular exercise, and explosiveness or power work. Listen in for a discussion on golf injuries and recovery, highlighting common injuries and emphasizing the importance of rest. Wrapping up the episode, Mike shares his favorite golf books, social media accounts to follow, and the best piece of golf advice he has received. So, whether you&#8217;re a seasoned golfer or a beginner looking to up your game, this episode is packed with valuable insights and actionable advice. Main Topics (00:04) Fitness and Golf Interview with Mike Carroll on simplicity in golf fitness, training professional golfers remotely, and improving game performance. (11:07) Physical Training&#8217;s Importance in Golf Proper biomechanics and physical training are crucial for swing speed in golf, while skill development should be prioritized during practice. (20:37) Effective Long-Term Physical Training Structure The ideal training program for golf includes strength, cardio, power, mobility, and scaling for injuries to improve physical function. (31:51) Mobility and Speed Training in Golf Mobility work and warmups improve golf performance, incorporating dynamic movements and swing speed for average golfers. (36:28) Speed Training for Golfers Speed training for golfers leads to improved swing speed through physical capabilities and skill practice, with the potential for significant gains. (49:08) Benefits of Training for Golfers Resistance and speed training benefits health, fitness, and longevity. Start slow, warm-up, and incorporate into golf routine. (57:16) Golf Injuries and Recovery Importance Golfers should gradually increase speed training, prioritize rest and recovery, and avoid overtraining to prevent injuries. (01:07:05) Golf Recommended books, dream golf foursomes, bucket list courses, social media accounts, and best golf advice from guest Mike. Follow Mike Carroll Instagram: @fit_for_golf Twitter: @Fit For Golf https://fitforgolf.blog/ Links Mentioned The Stack System Episode Partners: LINKSOUL:&nbsp;For your 20% discount on LINKSOUL gear, go to&nbsp;18strong.com/linksoul&nbsp;or click the logo above. 1st Phorm: Try any of the 1st Phorm products with FREE SHIPPING, go to 1stphorm.com/18strong.com (By using this link, you will be entered into our Monthly 1st Phorm Giveaway!) More Cool Stuff to Check Out: To continue the conversation and ask any questions you may have, head over to the&nbsp;18STRONG Movement group on Facebook. 18STRONG Pro Shop (Get your 18STRONG gear!) 18STRONG Resources (All of the cool stuff we recommend: products, books, golf stuff, etc &#8211; and discount codes for the 18STRONG Crew) Want the full episode transcript? (click the &#8220;+&#8221; ????????) 0:00:05 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroThe 18STRONG Podcast, episode Number 361 with Mike Carroll of Fit for Golf. What&#8217;s up, guys? This is the 18STRONG Podcast, where we&#8217;re here to help you build a stronger game, because we believe every golfer deserves to play better, longer. In this episode, I&#8217;m super excited to finally have Mike Carroll on the show from Fit for Golf. Mike has one of the most popular social media accounts and golf fitness apps out there and is really just some great things for not just the high level golfers but really the golf population in general. And so in today&#8217;s episode, we get to really kind of talk about the in and outs of strength training, building speed in your golf game, and really how keeping things simple is really the best way for you to make significant gains without overdoing it. But also, if you&#8217;re just starting out, then you&#8217;re going to be able to make much more significant gains than you think you are. And then we&#8217;re going to talk a little bit about the dos and don&#8217;ts of strength training and speed training, and so we&#8217;re going to really help you figure out what you need to do to make your game better and make yourself stronger. Right at the best, our partners over at Linksoul have been providing us with the best apparel for both on the course and off the course, from polos to t-shirts like the one I have on right now. Everything that they have is meant to be worn from the golf course to wherever you&#8217;re going next, whether that be casual, whether that be to the beach there&#8217;s all different options over there. So go to 18strong.com slash Linksoul. You&#8217;ll get 20% off of anything in your cart over on Linksoul&#8217;s website. Go again 18strong.com slash Linksoul for our favorite brand of apparel for anything on the golf course and off. Now let&#8217;s get to this week&#8217;s interview. Mike Carroll, welcome to the 18STRONG podcast. 0:02:06 &#8211; Mike CarrollThanks very much for having me, Jess. I look forward to chatting. 0:02:09 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroYeah, honestly, I can&#8217;t believe that it&#8217;s taken me this long to bring you on the show. I feel like we should have had this conversation years ago, but I just love everything that you&#8217;re doing. I think when people think fitness and golf, you are definitely one of the people that they come to mind, especially in the social media world and in the fitness world. So congrats, first of all, on all your success and everything you&#8217;re doing. 0:02:34 &#8211; Mike CarrollThank you very much. I think the fact you haven&#8217;t gotten me on is probably the same that you&#8217;ve got far more interested guests to talk to, which is probably a good thing. 0:02:45 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroSo where are you now? Obviously, people can tell from your accent that you&#8217;re not from the States, but you&#8217;re in the States now, right? 0:02:52 &#8211; Mike CarrollYeah, I&#8217;ve been in Southern California for seven years around Huntington Beach, newport Beach, irvine area. I&#8217;m from Ireland. I was born there, all my family is there, was there until I finished college and then a couple of years afterwards and I moved out here to work for, like I called Mike Hansen in a juke called Hansen Fitness for Golf. Mike&#8217;s been kind of specializing in training golfers for probably maybe 20 years now definitely over 15. And there was a job opportunity in his gym that I saw online and applied came over. So I came over in 2016 and started working for him. At the same time, I started up the Sid for Golf I had. About three years ago I stopped working for white and white full-time with Sid for Golf, which is 95% the app, and then I traveled to work with a couple of professional players a little bit, but only a few times a year. So kind of an interesting. In the last two years I basically stopped being an in-person trainer, which I had been for the 10 years previous. I&#8217;m now much more so like running an online business and, I guess, consulting with some high-level players trying to help them with their physical preparation. 0:04:26 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroSo you said you&#8217;ve traveled to a couple tournaments. Do you have any? Are there any pros in your area that you see on a relatively normal basis, or is it all just consultation stuff? 0:04:37 &#8211; Mike CarrollSo there&#8217;s not a single PJ Torpler in Linsen, california, to the best of my knowledge, because the state taxes are so high. I think Phil was the last one and then, when his daughter finished high school, I think even he left. Obviously he&#8217;s one of the guys who&#8217;s made enough money where he wouldn&#8217;t think it would matter, but I honestly don&#8217;t think there&#8217;s any of them based here. So I currently work with three PJ Torplers and none of them live here. So I tend to see them at tournaments and what&#8217;s nice about that is I go to a tournament and I get to see two or three of them in the same week, so it&#8217;s a nice way to catch up. And how do I do that? A few times a year and then most of it is just talking to the regularity by phone and text and checking up on things that way. 0:05:30 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroGotcha. So, yeah, a lot of online stuff. When you first meet with them, do you do an in-person assessment, like do you travel to go see them even before a tournament or anything like that, or is it strictly pretty much at the golf tournaments? 0:05:45 &#8211; Mike CarrollNo, we usually get started after a phone call, to be honest, like a nush huge on, like regimented screaming, was our assessments. To be honest, and because I think we can usually kind of start training and making progress without doing that, based on sort of the information they were made to me in a phone call and we started maybe looking over some of their trading records and some of their stats and things like that. So, honestly, when a lot of them I could be training them or, I guess, consulting with them remotely for months and like many months before I see them in person, it&#8217;s definitely nice to see them in person from time to time. You get to check up on things. It&#8217;s definitely good to sort of build a relationship as well. But, to be perfectly honest, I just don&#8217;t want to be on the road, kind of traveling like around week to week. So, yeah, that&#8217;s just the way my input is going to work. To be honest is I&#8217;m going to be mostly remote and then when I do go to maybe I don&#8217;t know three or five tournaments a year and maybe see them once or twice outside of that, if we happen to be in the same location for whatever reason, it tends to work quite well. 0:07:06 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroNice. So you said that you came over to work with Mike, but obviously that&#8217;s a huge jump going from Ireland over to California. Were you looking to move, change locations? Or was it simply you came across that opportunity and you&#8217;re like yeah, I got to take this. 0:07:25 &#8211; Mike CarrollYeah, it was mainly I just saw the opportunity and it suited sort of what I was doing or what I was interested in at the time, like I think I was only maybe 24 or so, maybe 25. So I was shortly finished. It was only a short time after college. I was working as a trainer, like working for myself, based in a gym, and just didn&#8217;t really have any commitments. So it was just, I was very mobile in terms of I didn&#8217;t have any ties keeping me at all, basically apart from family, but ordered matters. It was easy. So, yeah, once I was able to kind of secure work and get a visa taken care of that&#8217;s always the biggest stumbling block for anyone outside the US who wants to work in the US and I was happy to come over. 0:08:18 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroWere there any like big surprises when you came over here? Had you been over to the States before? Were there any different big cultural shifts when you got over here? 0:08:27 &#8211; Mike CarrollI&#8217;d been to the States for two summers before that, both on the East Coast, and I did the summer caddy in New Jersey and I also did an internship with Eric Cressy in Cressy Sport Performance. But that&#8217;s a little bit different when you know you&#8217;re only coming, for they were both three periods. That&#8217;s a little bit different to kind of moving over and trying to work and get properly set up here. I wouldn&#8217;t say there was any huge cultural shifts because I had spent some time here, you know anyway, and life in Ireland and the US isn&#8217;t that different, to be honest, like the cultures and things are reasonably similar and obviously there&#8217;s no language barrier. Well, the accent is nearly a language barrier. But no, there&#8217;s nothing too major, to be perfectly honest. 0:09:22 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroI would imagine that most people that are listening have heard of you or heard of Fit for Golf. What would you say is kind of the how would you describe your mentality when it comes to fitness and golf? I think that there&#8217;s a lot of different ways that people look at what fitness should look like when it comes to golf, and I know that you have some very strong opinions on just the way that you like to train, the way that you run the app, the way that you get you maximize your golfers potential. 0:09:55 &#8211; Mike CarrollYeah. So I think if you&#8217;re trying to work with people in physical preparation for any sport, you need to be able to determine what are the limiting factors in that sport from a physical perspective. If we look at golf, what are the demands of golf when there&#8217;s two main things that are happening in the sport from a physical perspective? Number one is we&#8217;re making golf swings and number two is we&#8217;re walking. There&#8217;s some standing around as well, but it&#8217;s mainly walking and swinging and walking. The ability to walk a golf course and sustain that is very rarely a limiting factor unless there&#8217;s a serious injury or a major medical problem. Those things are generally not particularly hard to get to a level where there&#8217;s going to be no further benefits and performance. Like there&#8217;s tons of regular everyday club players that are at a level that would be more than sufficient to be PGA tour standard in terms of walking the golf course because they&#8217;re fit of people. But then if we think of the physical qualities that are involved in swinging a golf club at a level that the best players do, then we start to see that there&#8217;s a huge golf when people tend to lack the mobility, the strength and power that higher levels of players do and club at speed has the biggest relationship between differences and playing levels. When you look at, a big population of golfers across a wide range of scores saw that as due to technical mastery for sure just differences in literally quality of swing. It&#8217;s a technique broader than a physical thing. But even at the highest level of the golf we see that that&#8217;s one of the big differentiating factors. And that&#8217;s the thing to where a wide, big interest is essentially understanding the biomechanics of the swing. What goes into a now in golfers swing faster from a mechanics standpoint, and then how could we enhance the physical qualities that underpin that? And I guess that&#8217;s it in terms of working with real high level players. But probably what I&#8217;m just as interested in is essentially trying to help people get to a very high level of fitness and physical function and then be able to maintain it for as long as possible. And what&#8217;s sort of really nice for all of us that are interested in both golf and that is that there&#8217;s huge crossover in that the things that you need to do to be in a position to swing very fast also have great transfer to just stay fit and strong and healthy and everyday life. I am thinking that for decades really. 0:12:53 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroYeah, that&#8217;s what really resonates with me when going through your stuff and watching the way that you present information online, is that while it is totally geared towards the golfer and really a lot of it is geared towards increasing their strength, increasing their swing speed you do a great job of crossing it over into the lifelong aspects of it too, because golf is a unique sport that, unlike any others, we can play when we&#8217;re five years old and we want to continue to play until we can&#8217;t swing a club anymore, and so to really work on the longevity piece I think is so important. But you mentioned really kind of diving into the mechanics of what does it take to build swing speed? What are the pieces of the body, the movement pieces, and there is always the technique side, there&#8217;s the strengthening side and, from my perspective, where it can get kind of muddied is how do we utilize the? Are people using too much or trying to use the exercises too much to work on the technique stuff as opposed to just working on their body and the athleticism? 0:14:06 &#8211; Mike CarrollYeah, that&#8217;s something that I kind of think about and talk about a lot. Really, how I usually describe it is that I think there&#8217;s a gray area where a lot of people get stuck in and in that they try to improve their swing technique and their physical characteristics like strength and power at the same time, and what often happens not always is that they end up choosing exercises that are not specific enough to the golf swing to improve their mechanics and they&#8217;re also not stressful enough to cause any type of physiological adaptation that&#8217;s going to improve the physical quality. I know they&#8217;re way better than not doing anything, like not exercising at all, but if we&#8217;re trying to get the most out of, like our hardly limited, let&#8217;s say, training time, I think we always kind of need to ask the question like what adaptation is this leading to? Is this enhancing the function of my nervous system? Like how well I can recruit muscle fibers and get them to contract? Is it a strong enough stimulus where it&#8217;s going to increase the size of my muscle fibers? Is there enough mechanical tension? And in a lot of those exercises there&#8217;s not, and the argument that could be made sort of to refute that is well, I&#8217;m doing something that he&#8217;s going to enhance my swing technique, but oftentimes I think it&#8217;s nowhere near as effective as actually practicing your golf swing with a golf club or with drills that are way, way more specific to that. So in January, I think most people are much better off trying to use their physical training time to enhance their physical qualities, use their practice time to work on their skill and allow those two things merge together, especially when it comes, I would say, to strength exercises. If we tried to get too cute with, like, simulating movement patterns, which is where a lot of people kind of would go down the specificity of route, we started running into problems very quickly in terms of not being able to load them heavy enough or have many options for progressing the long term where we can actually make progress in the long run and like, if you think of something like, say, like a cable pulley rotation or a medicine ball throw or something like that, sure they could be used to strengthen muscles that are used in the golf swing in a reasonably similar fashion, but in terms of like the coordination and speed, they&#8217;re still a million miles away from the actual golf swing. So they&#8217;re not specific exercises really. They&#8217;re slightly more specific than something like a bench press or a deadlift, but I still wouldn&#8217;t consider them very specific. They&#8217;re definitely not like technical drills that are going to have a direct impact on your golf swing. And then the other thing is like they just get challenging to load in the long term in a way that you can make a lot of progress and compare it to things that are more general in nature, are much more similar to being loaded and building strength and power of the long term. I still incorporate them a little bit because I think they&#8217;re value, but it just needs to be, in my opinion, a very clear rationale for why you&#8217;re doing a certain exercise and there needs to be a good understanding of, like what is the goal of the training and because otherwise we can just kind of fall into the trap of doing things that, no matter how much we improved at the exercise we&#8217;re doing, it just doesn&#8217;t have much potential to move the needle at terms of our performance. 0:18:06 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroI would totally agree that you know, not asking that simple question of what&#8217;s the goal here, and I love even further going into what&#8217;s the adaptation that I&#8217;m really trying to work on and so many of our golfers I know personally in our community and I&#8217;m sure those in the fit for golf community and I would assume a lot of there&#8217;s a lot of crossover there are. We&#8217;re all stressed for time. We&#8217;re all looking to make things as efficient as possible, and that&#8217;s a message that I keep hearing from from you is you know, how do we really make the most sense of what we&#8217;re doing with the time that we have? You know, we got to practice, we got to, we got to train, we got to eat, we got to do all of these different things that are going to move us, move the needle, move us forward. But how do we, how do we help people not waste time on, you know, things that don&#8217;t really matter quite as much? So if you could, what&#8217;s a bit of a structure that you would tell people like, hey, these are the things that you really should be working on, thinking about as you&#8217;re getting ready to jump into your golf fitness training program. 0:19:12 &#8211; Mike CarrollYeah, so, generally, if I&#8217;m advising somebody with their overall let&#8217;s say, physical training, and if we take an average, you know, let&#8217;s say working person that&#8217;s maybe 60 or 60 years old or whatever, or it doesn&#8217;t really matter what age any any adult, I would say and our older adult, I&#8217;m a big fan of trying to get people to have a slot for exercise pretty much every day. The reason for that is, I think, that if people can do that, they&#8217;re much more likely to build a habit and stick to it. It doesn&#8217;t mean that every day is going to be a long training session or a very hard training session. What like is, if you think of it in terms of long term health and physical function. There&#8217;s really two elements of training that that people have to be on top of. Number one is cardiovascular fitness, what both people refer to as cardio or aerobic training. Like there&#8217;s kind of no way of arguing with the amount of research that shows how important VO2 maxes for longevity, which is basically how aerobically fit you are, and there&#8217;s also no arguing with the importance of muscle strength. So there are the two things that I get people to focus on mainly and how. I think a really nice way to structure it is is simply have three training sessions a week for each element and that might look like something like on a Monday, wednesday, friday, somebody is going to do their strength training work. It&#8217;s going to be three total body strength training sessions where they do a little bit of lower body, a little bit of trunk and a little bit of upper body. In each session, or each one of those sessions, they&#8217;ll go through dynamic warm up so that they&#8217;re getting to work out the mobility and flexibility stuff that everybody kind of wants to work on and says they need more of. Then, on the days in between, they&#8217;re going to do some cardiovascular exercise and that might be depending on what the person enjoys. They might be on a bike, they might be jogging, they might be inclined walking on a treadmill, they could be on a roller and elliptical, they might be like pick up basketball or hockey anything that gets your heart rate elevated for a sustained period of time. It&#8217;s honestly pretty much that simple for long term physical function in an ideal world. I&#8217;d also like people to incorporate some sort of what would generally be called like explosiveness or power work or race of force development work. That&#8217;s touched on pretty well by intense strength training. Well, most people don&#8217;t know is that as we get older, obviously we have a decline in physical function kind of across the board. We&#8217;ll show a like force production standpoint we lose speed and power faster than we lose strength and we lose strength faster, lose muscle mass. So we should have make our training set up in a way to help be proactive against that. And so what it tends to look like in a training session on the one day Wednesday, friday is dynamic warm up to get warmed up and work on your mobility. A little bit of lightweight, high speed power work, which might be things like explosives kind of swings, things like box jumps, lateral jumps. You can even do like short sprints or very short sprints on a bike. For the upper body it might be some medicine ball trolls or some band work that&#8217;s very, very fast in nature. There&#8217;ll be something like hitting a punch bag as hard as you can for 10 seconds and then moving into some strength work which would be kind of in general, because it&#8217;s just very efficient is bigger cup out lifts and like swatting, hinging for the lower body, pushing and pulling for the upper body and trying to get progressively stronger in those movements and then on the dick. That&#8217;s that covers really nicely mobility, explosiveness or power and strength, and those things also cover your muscle mass. And then on the days in between, do something for your cardiovascular fitness. It makes sense to vary up those things where you have maybe one one day that&#8217;s a longer, slower day where you&#8217;re trying to get the duration up. You have another day where you&#8217;re getting the intensity up and more of make an interval type fashion, and then on the other day you could do a little bit of a mixture or something like that, and that&#8217;s that&#8217;s honestly pretty much what people need to focus on from a from a physical training standpoint. Obviously it has to be scaled to their current level. You need to take into account injury concerns. They might have to choose the bold of the exercise or exactly which exercises they&#8217;re doing. And then if somebody is also really interested in getting better at golf, they need to have some time for practice and play. They need to squeeze in some time where they do like specific swing speed training, where they&#8217;re swinging as fast as they can, ideally with a radar for speed feedback, and pretty quickly the time requirement there can start to add up. So just completely depends on how much time someone&#8217;s able to commit. What cool is that? Like, even with that, say, three day of each template, even if you only had 10 minutes each of those days, the improvements that you would make compared to not doing it is absolutely enormous and so, yeah, that&#8217;s that&#8217;s kind of the way that I&#8217;ve been sort of structuring training for a long time. I think it works quite nicely for most people and gets them a nice balance across the various different elements and there&#8217;s no variety in there that it keeps people interested. 0:25:39 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroI love how you break it down so simply and in my personal experience, talking with so many of the different coaches that we&#8217;ve had on the show, it&#8217;s when somebody like yourself breaks it down into very simple ways of doing it, that that&#8217;s when you know we can get really caught up in the flashy exercises and doing all of the different pieces. But really it boils down to getting simplified and doing the things right. Doing the strength training, doing the warm ups, doing all of that when do you because I always find this a little troublesome sometimes with clients and working in some of the corrective exercise stuff Like, if you do have people that you&#8217;re working on some other more accessory kind of things, some isolation movements where would you throw that in in kind of that template that you just laid out for us? 0:26:32 &#8211; Mike CarrollAnd honestly, I think that I think that say, like, if we&#8217;re talking about somebody who&#8217;s who&#8217;s has an injury that they need to rehab, I train you. Rehab as much as possible the same as training, because all that you&#8217;re really doing is scaling an exercise or an activity to whatever the person is currently able to tolerate and then gradually increasing the intensity to bring them towards whatever goals that they&#8217;re trying to get to. So like, for example, if someone has a shoulder issue, their upper body pulling and pushing exercises are probably going to need to be scammed back to something that&#8217;s, you know, pretty, pretty nice, maybe a slower tempo, with lighter ways and higher reps while they&#8217;re recovering from that injury and gradually build up to where they want to get to. And another element that I think is really important there for people who do have some sort of specific issue that they&#8217;re kind of rehabbing or that is having an impact on their training is don&#8217;t let an issue in one specific body part or one specific movement derail the rest of your training. Like, for example, if you have a shoulder or knee issue, train everything around that as best as you can. Why are you bringing that level? Why do you really need that area back up to par and like I would even go so as far as, like if someone like it&#8217;s really common for senior golfers to maybe get like a rotator cuff surgery or something like that Like they I you&#8217;d often might get an email from there or something saying you know, oh, I need a, you know, six week break or whatever While I get this surgery, and I&#8217;d be kind of trying to encourage them. Like six weeks of not exercising for someone in that day range like is is not good in terms of what they&#8217;re going to lose and how hard it is to build that back up. And that&#8217;s where things like machines in the gym are so, so useful because it allows you to knowledge of muscles without having to pick up any weights. So, like you could do calf raises and leg presses, you could even do upper body pushing and pulling on the uninjured side. You could be on, you know, things like bikes and rollers that you could use, you know, without using that injured body part. So I try to not, I guess, like worry too much about getting ultra specific with corrective exercises and more so. Just scale the training plan in whatever way a person needs and gradually build it up over time, like I think the person who coined the term is Charlie Weingroth, a pretty well known like physio and strength coach, and I think the phrase he uses is that rehab is training, training is rehab. There&#8217;s no difference between them. You&#8217;re just scaling them to the, to the level that the person can currently color it. 0:29:39 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroYou know, anytime you have somebody even just working on things like posture and, and you know, getting a little bit more of the the upper back and, like you said, the rotator cuff, some of those different pieces, the hips just putting a little more focus on it, and I guess you talked about even in, like the dynamic warmups. You&#8217;re doing some of the things that maybe, like the smaller exercises as you would think of, I think it&#8217;s very easy to get caught up in like I just want to go, get to the gym, I want to do, you know, for for some people I want to go do my bench press or my squats or my, and get into the bigger things, but talk about how important it is to do that beginning piece and to get your body primed and ready to go for the bigger, stronger exercises. 0:30:19 &#8211; Mike CarrollYeah, that&#8217;s a good way to put it Like if you have a well designed training program that&#8217;s covering what you consider to be, I would say, like important muscles or literally just human movement, that human function in general, and then you&#8217;re you&#8217;re making sure that all of those are covered across a training week. If you could also follow a training program like that for any reasonable period of time, that&#8217;s going to be very corrective for any issues that they have like because getting stronger, getting more mobile and getting into better physical condition is going to be, like, comprehensively corrected. There&#8217;s not going to be things that aren&#8217;t getting touched on. And yeah, I think like one of the big things about a dynamic warmup is like we have to warm up before we train anyway to reduce the risk of injury and to improve the performance in the training session. So why not do it in a way that also improves our, our long term mobility? And if you can have some stuff that works on mobility of areas that need to be mobile and commonly get stiff things like the hips, spine, shoulders, neck and a little bit of mobility work on those before each workout and just adds up really nicely over time as your mobility work, and then you don&#8217;t need to. You know, devote a lot of training sessions to mobility work. And I haven&#8217;t. I haven&#8217;t done a mobility session in 15 years. I&#8217;ve been granted it in my 30s. Some people will say, wait till you know your ex age or whatever. But on the flip side, I do a dynamic warmup pretty much every day where I&#8217;m going through full ranges of motion for my spine, hips, shoulders, neck, because I&#8217;m doing that before and practicing, or playing, or before and working out, so like there&#8217;s been improvements in mobility there, without actually ever doing specific flexibility sessions. And then the other thing is that if your strength training program is well designed and you have exercises where you&#8217;re going through a full range of motion, that&#8217;s also highly effective for improving mobility. 0:32:42 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroYeah, I even saw I think it was a post that you made either on Twitter or Instagram and this might have been talking about even before a round of golf. But you said, instead of thinking of it as a warmup, think of it as a little as a mini workout. And I love, I love that, right, because you see these golf, the tour players, and when you see them in the tour trailer, they&#8217;re not doing just like a stretching routine, they&#8217;re actually kind of getting after a little bit. 0:33:10 &#8211; Mike CarrollYeah, so what it actually said was think of a warmup less as stretching out. 0:33:16 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroYeah. 0:33:17 &#8211; Mike CarrollAnd more like a mini workout. That&#8217;s right Because, like, the simplest way to look at a warmup is its preparation for the activity that&#8217;s about to go ahead and, like anyone who&#8217;s listening to this podcast is, you know, probably interested in the golf swing and being better at swinging the golf club. It&#8217;s clearly a very fast, dynamic activity. Like you go through rapid stretches, rapid contractions. It&#8217;s at high speed. Static stretching is not good preparation for that it&#8217;s. It&#8217;s very, very different to what you&#8217;re about to do. So we want to get warmed up by by moving, starting with slow movements, gradually building up to movements that are much faster and closer movement pattern to what we&#8217;re about to do with that. And what&#8217;s nice about that is those types of warmups compound over time and can actually make improvements in our physical qualities, like mobility and power, like the higher level players that I work with granted, they have more time and they have a fitness trailer at the golf course Like they all have a warmup that takes about 20 minutes Some of them actually like to do. One of them in particular likes to warm up for a little bit longer and almost, like you just said, turn it into a mini workout. But they go through their dynamic warmup routine which gets the heart rate up a little bit. It also gets them moving their hips and spine and shoulders through a full range of motion. But then they actually really like to finish the workout with things like vertical jumps, med ball throws, med ball slams, maybe even swinging like the stack or their driver like maximum speed, a few times to get really, really warmed so that when they go down to the range they don&#8217;t have to go through, like you know, 15, 20 minutes of trying to warm up and loosen up, hitting wedges and things like that. They&#8217;ll seem like that when they go to the range they could take out their driver and be ready to go without, you know, needing to get through that stiffness. And it also has the compounding effect of, if you&#8217;re doing that a few times a week before rounds, you&#8217;re going to be getting much, much more exposure to mobility and power work, which would benefits lockdown. 0:35:47 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroTalking about swing speed. Obviously you&#8217;ve got your your stack system shared on and I know you work with those guys quite a bit and we just had Marty on the show a couple of weeks ago. You said in kind of the layout of your program if somebody is interested in the golf swing and they&#8217;re interested in getting better, that that not only practicing their golf is going to be very important, but working on their swing speed is important. And what does that look like for you and the programs that you put together for, let&#8217;s say, not the tour level guys, but just you know more of the average golfer. That&#8217;s on the fit for golf app and what can people expect if they&#8217;ve never experienced any kind of speed training before? 0:36:28 &#8211; Mike CarrollHonestly, like speed training could not be simpler, and the reason why is that there is physical capabilities, like physical characteristics that are very important, like strength and power and mobility, but it&#8217;s also there&#8217;s also a big skill element to it, and skill requires frequent practice to improve. So speed training is literally as simple as practicing swinging as fast as you can with the goal of going faster. So if you can guess a radar I think the PRG or is like I don&#8217;t have any affiliation with them I think it&#8217;s by far the best value radar on the market for speed trading. If you could do something like two or three days a week where you get warmed up and for people starting out, I think about 16 swings is a good number. As you get more advanced, you&#8217;d probably need to, like anything, build up the amount you&#8217;re doing a little bit more and maybe up to 30s or D is probably enough for the vast majority of people over in the course of like a number of months. But I keep it on the low end for as long as you can with still seeing progress. And obviously it&#8217;s that simple Like get warmed up, start taking some swings, have the radar for feedback, and having the radar also really boosts motivation and track your results and, like you, will naturally start to wrap up the speed. There&#8217;s things going on in your nervous system in terms of how well you can recruit fast twitch muscle fibers. It&#8217;s called motor unit recruitment. You&#8217;re able to send signals to the muscles faster it&#8217;s called rate coding. There are two things that happen as a result of speed training that are really beneficial. They tend to happen quite quickly. We improve the coordination of how our different muscles work together and there&#8217;s just the pure steel element of we figure out more efficient ways to swing the club, based on our bodies. Basically, and for people who have never done speed or strength training before, like for, let&#8217;s say, recreational adult golfers, it&#8217;s really common for golfers to gain 10 runs an hour club at speed in. I would say six to 12 months of training for sure. What&#8217;s interesting is that, depending from what I&#8217;ve seen, is that people who are untrained and they start speed training they can gain five months an hour in like a few weeks. The initial gains are really really quick and like the difference from gaining five miles an hour to gaining 10 miles an hour is usually like a big tougher. But it completely depends on what the person is done in the past. Like, for example, if you take the two opposite ends of the spectrum. If you take someone who hasn&#8217;t done much physical training and they have poor swing technique, they have huge, huge room for gains. Because if you only got that person to say, do workouts and didn&#8217;t work on their swing speed directly with speed training, they could probably gain five or six miles an hour with that, without really trying to work on their swing speed at all. If you got that same person and they didn&#8217;t do any workouts and they just did speed training, they probably gained similar or, to be honest, a little bit more. But if you combine both of them, like you have someone who works on speed training which is going to impact their technique. Maybe they work with an instructor that also helps with their swing and they&#8217;re doing training that&#8217;s going to prove like their strength and power. Like there&#8217;s huge, huge rule there that person might gain 12 miles an hour, maybe even more, depending on what their lowest target point is. But then if you consider, like someone on the opposite end of the spectrum, like a tour there, they already have pretty good swing mechanics. They probably already, like are aware of the benefits of being faster and have practiced some speed training and they probably already have done like workouts. They&#8217;re rather reasonable. You know level of appropriateness. So with someone like that, like if you can gain, like honestly, two or three miles an hour in like a season or two, would be hugely impressive. Like if you look at the PGA tour website where they list players, club head speeds, like there&#8217;s not many players at all gain a significant amount of speed. Like it&#8217;s impressive there&#8217;s a player gains, let&#8217;s say, two miles an hour from one season to the next, or I would say even more that three or four miles an hour from when they come out on tour to when they&#8217;re to when they&#8217;re at their fastest. That will be like really, really impressive Players your average 60 or 60 year old or 40 year old club golfers. They might gain that in a week, you know they might gain. Like, they might honestly they like actually gain that in like 10 swings because they realize, oh, I can actually swing well seven, but I&#8217;ve just been swinging 101 all the time because that&#8217;s just how I&#8217;ve been swinging. I didn&#8217;t realize if I actually tried harder there&#8217;s way more speed here. Yeah, that&#8217;s that&#8217;s what I would say. Like the people who have basically been doing less, less coaching, and have technically, let&#8217;s say, poor golf swings, have the most to gain. Like 10, 15 miles an hour is not a herd of. But then at the upper levels, like, if, like, if you&#8217;re totally engaged, three miles an hour from one season to the next, like that would be I really, unless they&#8217;re coming off, let&#8217;s say, some sort of injury or something like that, where they were clearly down from their normal, something like three miles an hour is big. I read those guys. 0:42:50 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroYeah, and I think that&#8217;s pretty refreshing for the that more, maybe more recreational golfer or somebody that hasn&#8217;t been working on any of it, to know. Like you know, sometimes it&#8217;s a little intimidating to get involved in some of these things and to start these things, but know that you just doing a little bit is going to give you a lot of gain 100% and, honestly, the training doesn&#8217;t even need to be hard, because when you&#8217;re a beginner to this stuff, or if you haven&#8217;t done it, not tight. 0:43:15 &#8211; Mike CarrollThe initial gains are really really easy Like they come. You honestly don&#8217;t need to work very hard at all to get initial gains and, to be honest, that&#8217;s actually what I recommend. I recommend not trying to push too hard early on, because that needs to, people either getting injured or burned out. So, yeah, like it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s nice that way. What&#8217;s interesting with training too, like and you see this across like whether it&#8217;s all in you know who, let&#8217;s say, loves to get the gym and they&#8217;re interested in you know getting their barbell it&#8217;s up or it&#8217;s. You know a runner who&#8217;s trying to get their five or 10 K times. Now, Like, there comes a point in training it&#8217;s really interesting, Like where that the early gains are very large and easy to call away. As you train more and get more advanced, they start to slow down. When that happens, what&#8217;s interesting is it&#8217;s extremely easy to maintain the progress you&#8217;ve made. So you&#8217;ll be hugely improved from where you started and maintaining that level is pretty easy, Doesn&#8217;t require much work compared to the amount of work that&#8217;s required to keep improving even a little bit. That can be huge and oftentimes like it gets to a point for people, honestly, where it&#8217;s like that&#8217;s just not work, like getting that out of this, how much I need to do it&#8217;s just not worth it. Because you know this is a hobby and doing it for fun, and it&#8217;s a case of it actually gets to a point really like where maintaining basically is progress, because as people are getting older the naturally is to decline. So if you&#8217;ve built up a high level from a few years of training, honestly being able to maintain that then for a long time and not decline is a pretty good deal, you know. 0:45:18 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroYeah, that&#8217;s exactly what Marty Jertson from Ping in the Stack told us. He said that after the age of 40, typically you&#8217;re going to see a decline of like one mile per hour per year and so just maintaining if you maintain that for 10 years that means you&#8217;re going to be 10 miles an hour faster than your cohorts. 0:45:35 &#8211; Mike CarrollYeah, and what&#8217;s important to know too for, let&#8217;s just say, more seniors, like the older golfers, is that they often ask, like, am I too old to see improvements? And they might be 50 or 60 or 75 or whatever. And I think we&#8217;re conditioned because, like, we base almost our assumptions of, say, athletes declining from watching professional sports, and we see, you know the picture, the soccer player or whoever starting to decline. You know, maybe it&#8217;s in, depending on the sport and the position, maybe it&#8217;s their late 20s, maybe it&#8217;s their big 30s or maybe sometimes it&#8217;s their late 30s or 30, 40s. So what we need to remember there is, like those are people who have been training to reach their genetic potential for a couple of decades and then they start to see a very small decline. If you&#8217;re 50 or 60 or 70 and you haven&#8217;t been training, or you&#8217;ve been training kind of lackluster, without a good program and no real direction, when you start training, you know I would say like much more efficient matter, the rate of progress that you can see can be much larger than the rate of the natural biological decline. So that&#8217;s why he&#8217;s with people when they&#8217;re 70 or 80 or he&#8217;s an older, is that people are often thinking like, oh no, that&#8217;s an age when you start to, you know, get worse and slow down. Well, yeah, if you&#8217;re not doing anything, for sure there&#8217;s going to be a decline. But if you&#8217;re training in a pretty good fashion at that age, like you can 100% get stronger, get faster and make improvements at any age. Like one of the like coolest areas of research that I see coming out is like they do strength training studies in nursing homes with people who are in their 80s and 90s and like you see enormous increases in strength in people in their 80s from like six, like even like four or six eight week training programs. Like like 50% improvements and say like quad strength and stuff like this. Like that&#8217;s really important, for if you plans of, say, be able to play golf to a reasonably high level as you get older or even just have a high level of physical function, you know let&#8217;s take a second to thank our sponsors over at 1st Phorm, and this week I want to highlight their Formula One post workout protein shake. 0:48:13 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroI use this thing pretty much every day after my workouts because, let&#8217;s face it, being here in the gym working all the time with clients putting on a podcast, it can sometimes be tough to get my protein in on a regular basis, and so I know that with the post workout shake the Formula One first of all, it&#8217;s fast acting. So right after your workout is a great time to get your protein in to help build your muscles, get yourself stronger and repair what you&#8217;ve done in the gym. But also, if you don&#8217;t know if you&#8217;re going to be able to get your protein in your regular meals, it&#8217;s just a great way to make sure that you&#8217;re supplementing and hitting those marks. So make sure to go over to 1stPhorm.com forward slash 18STRONG to get your 1st Phorm Formula One protein shake, and everyone that enters through that link is going to be put into a drawing every single month for free 1st Phorm products. So, again, go over to 1stPhorm.com forward slash 18STRONG. It&#8217;s funny. So we just had the Thanksgiving holiday and I was over at my parents&#8217; house and they&#8217;re both 69, getting ready to turn 70. And I was telling them how I want to order them a hex bar for their house, because what better exercise for them to just be lifting something a little bit heavy, putting low through their joints, putting low through their bones, because so many of the studies talk about not just for any kind of sports related function, but, yeah, just general health, general fitness, longevity, and they were open to it. It was kind of cool and obviously I just order one for my house. I have a 15-year-old son who&#8217;s getting into some competitive golf and I&#8217;m like you need to start lifting some stuff that&#8217;s a little bit heavier and he doesn&#8217;t get to the gym that often. And for all of you listening, you can get a hex bar at Walmart for $75. And it&#8217;s a thousand pound capacity. It doesn&#8217;t cost a whole lot. It&#8217;s a very simple exercise. I know you&#8217;re a big fan of it Just helping the population understand that just starting to lift some and heavy for you could be 65 pounds, right. 0:50:20 &#8211; Mike CarrollWell, yeah for sure, even like. First of all, I love that. That&#8217;s the exact type of thing I like to hear. Even easier than that that I try and encourage people to do is like I love to have everybody set up with bars and plates at home and things like that. It&#8217;s a hurdle, though you can have. The easiest way, I would say, to develop a high level of leg strength at home, if you don&#8217;t want to have a lot of equipment, is do split stance and single leg exercises where you can put your body mass onto one leg. Practice like step ups or step downs off of foot stools or something like that. Do some split squats, holding like any type of weight you have available. Your muscles don&#8217;t care what they&#8217;re being loaded with. They just respond to the tension that&#8217;s put on them. You can find ways to load them pretty well without elaborate equipment. That the response to that, compared to not loading them, is huge. Yeah, like if there was one message that I could send with my social media platforms and what I try to do more than anything, it&#8217;s to guess Like I&#8217;m trying to target golfers, I guess, because that&#8217;s what my demographic is, but it&#8217;s basically just to get the average person to understand the benefits and value of resistance training. Slash strength training and golfers have created the double whammy of that. It&#8217;s really beneficial for golf and like they get two benefits out of it. 0:52:13 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroYeah, definitely Back to the speed thing real quick. Are there any cautions that you would have for people that are just getting started or really anyone in general, as far as, like how frequent they do it? You know how you mentioned, you know not going crazy with the amount of swings, but any other cautions for somebody getting involved? 0:52:31 &#8211; Mike CarrollYeah, and it&#8217;s not an exclusive to speed training. It&#8217;s the same thing for pretty much any activity is that you should ease into it conservatively and no matter what activity you&#8217;re doing, if you start something and you do too much too soon, that&#8217;s when there&#8217;s a high risk of injury Like that can literally happen with walking and with speed training. Obviously it&#8217;s a reasonably intense activity, but we also need to remember that people who are going to be starting speed training, they generally do have a decent background of swing, like they are generally conditioned to swinging because they practice golf and they play golf. But I like the idea of if you&#8217;re going to say to two or three speed training sessions a week, I like the idea of treating your first, maybe four weeks or so as like an induction into it and not really worrying about trying to like set and break personal records and just get your body conditioned to swinging and then gradually swinging a little bit faster than you&#8217;re used to. And if you could do that like the whole gist and exercise like is that you put a little bit more stress on your body than it&#8217;s used to and adapts to it and then gets stronger. Where that goes wrong is when we put too much stress on our body and it can&#8217;t adapt to it. And then we keep doing that. That&#8217;s when an injury usually starts to pick up. So, like slow and steady, and then what you&#8217;d probably find is that you feel better and better doing it and, naturally, like you can then start to ramp up the speed. I would say that, combined with a very thorough warm like like I mean reasonably good physical condition, I can&#8217;t imagine going from like sitting at a desk for a day&#8217;s work to swinging a golf club as fast as I can. Like that would be bad idea. So you need to have like a pretty good warm up routine and the same one that you do like. I literally do the same warm up routine before every single practice session, speed session, workout and it&#8217;s just automatic. And then before you start swinging as fast as you can, spend a couple of minutes. Take practice swings where you start medium and gradually build up to full speed. Like you could do something like a set of eight medium to like normal and then a set of eight that&#8217;s like pretty fast or close to full speed, and then you should be ready for like going as fast as you can after doing your kind of dynamic warm up. The one like thing with speed trading that&#8217;s interesting, I would say like, is that the warm up and the speed training session would probably be about equal in like like. I would say like you could get a really good like, say, speed trading session done in like 10 to 58 minutes, but the warm ups probably have to be that long too, and that&#8217;s to help not get injured and you&#8217;ll also just do way better in the session. Like. You&#8217;d be amazed at how much faster you are and how much more benefit you can get when you&#8217;re only warmed up for a session as opposed to not really being ready to go. 0:55:59 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroWould you say that three times a week is the limit of what you would have somebody do. Speed session wise. 0:56:05 &#8211; Mike CarrollYeah, like I don&#8217;t, like I don&#8217;t know the perfect answer to this, but I would be very skeptical that there is any benefit to going more frequently than that. And even if there&#8217;s potential for very, very small gains compared to three by week, I would say that it&#8217;s probably not worth this for the rate you&#8217;re increasing, picking up an injury and like there won&#8217;t be a direct relationship between how much we do and how many gains we get. Like the amount of gains we get will start to level off and then actually get to a point where we can&#8217;t recover from it. You might actually get less improvement compared to if you did less. What we need to remember in terms of, say, stress and loading on our soft tissue, like that&#8217;s a linear relationship in that the more we do, the more it&#8217;s multiplying. And that&#8217;s where I&#8217;d be worried about picking up like big goals. Like I&#8217;ve noticed in the last maybe say four or five years, that, from what I can see, more common in golfers is injuries in like the elbows and forearms and wrists. So you let me hear a lot more of golfers elbow, tennis elbow and some wrist issues, and I think it&#8217;s primarily for two reasons. One is speed training has gotten way more popular. I think we&#8217;ve died into it headfirst without really taking, you know, the kind of gradual build up that I was talking about, and oftentimes it&#8217;s combined with. People now have way more access to practicing indoors, you know, with, say, cheaper sims and large models and stuff like that, so they have a way bigger volume of practice than they&#8217;re used to and their speed training and the volume is just too high, too soon and yeah, so in the soft tissue just can&#8217;t keep up. So, yeah, I don&#8217;t think that there&#8217;s going to be. I don&#8217;t think more than three days a week is going to be worth it, to be perfectly honest. And even two days a week people make a lot of progress with. I think we&#8217;re one. So beginners will be fine, you&#8217;d probably see some progress. But what would happen is like you say, do a session, it would take maybe a day or two to recover, but then you&#8217;re going to have like two or three days of almost like using it before you get back on it, whereas if you can do a little bit, take a day off a little bit, take a day off. Or do a little bit, take two days off. Do a little bit, take two days off from speed training. I think that tends to work quite well, but that will be certainly dependent on the person. But yeah, what I definitely don&#8217;t want someone to do is like might just be training is a good idea. I can start tomorrow and I&#8217;m going to reach 50 swings a day Like a person. I would put money on them, probably running into an issue, and that would derail their progress quite quickly, as opposed to the person who sat the two or three a week for like 50 swings. I&#8217;d be gradually built up over in the course of weeks and months. 0:59:33 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroYeah, I&#8217;m sure you&#8217;ve had this before too, but I&#8217;ve actually had a couple clients or people reach out and say hey, I&#8217;ve been doing my speed training six days a week and I&#8217;m not really seeing a whole lot of gain anymore. Well, how about we go back to two and I bet you&#8217;ll start to see some gains again, or maybe, or maybe not, but at least you&#8217;re not going to hurt yourself. 0:59:53 &#8211; Mike CarrollYeah. So what&#8217;s interesting about like speed training and city? I learned that I don&#8217;t know if there&#8217;s some video with Chris Beardsley, the striking conditioning research guy. So he&#8217;s an English guy that does a lot of like mentorship and education for coaches, but he&#8217;s written a lot about fatigue and the different types of fatigue and how it impacts, how training while we&#8217;re still under fatigue from a previous training session or training sessions kind of inhibit progress. And one of the things that he talks about which is really interesting is that when we have central nervous system fatigue which can be built up from and not a different types of workouts, and it&#8217;s primarily related to muscle damage. So muscle damage sounds scary. That basically what happens, like after an intense workout whether it&#8217;s like if you ran for you know whatever, like 30 minutes or 60 minutes or whatever someone may do like you&#8217;re going to have some muscle damage in your calves and quads and things like that. It&#8217;s not a big deal. It&#8217;s one of the signals for your muscles to repair and get stronger. And if you do a hard workout in the gym, you&#8217;re going to have some muscle damage. And when we have muscle damage, that&#8217;s going to lead to some central nervous system fatigue. And when we have central nervous system fatigue we can&#8217;t do as good a job at sending the signal from our grade through our spinal cord to our fast twitch fibers and telling them to recruit. And that&#8217;s a problem when we&#8217;re speed training because they&#8217;re the exact muscle fibers that we&#8217;re trying to get better at using. So that&#8217;s why we like over time when we&#8217;re past the beginner stage and getting to get hired. So we need to be a little bit smart with our speed training and learning that we need to find windows when we&#8217;re as fresh as possible to do the training. That&#8217;s probably not a huge concern for people just starting out, but definitely when people start to hit plateaus or if it&#8217;s people who train a lot, like you said, and they&#8217;re wondering why they&#8217;re not approving. It&#8217;s one of the hardest things for a motivated, let&#8217;s say, athletes or people to do is that when they&#8217;re not seeing the progress, they want is to stay back the amount they&#8217;re doing. It&#8217;s really hard and I think golf attracts a lot of, say, type A personalities because it&#8217;s hard and you need to put a lot of work into it and you know the feedback is very objective in terms of like your score and your handicap. Those people have done well in other aspects of their life, like school and business and work and things like that from working harder. It&#8217;s like if this isn&#8217;t going well, I need to work harder. And I get so many emails from people and they lay out you know, I&#8217;ve been training hard, I&#8217;ve been in the gym, I&#8217;ve been doing my speed training, I&#8217;m plateauing, I&#8217;m getting worse. Like what exercises do I need to add? Or like what are the workouts do I need to do? And it&#8217;s like show me your schedule. It&#8217;s like you know probably need to like cut out some of this stuff and take like more days of rest in between things. And it&#8217;s hard because they&#8217;re used to like but now I feel like I&#8217;m not doing enough, like how am I going to get better? But generally what it does is gives them a chance to recover between their workload, because the whole like a mechanism of training is that like this is kind of the oldest cliche there is. But like we don&#8217;t improve from the training session that we&#8217;re doing, generally we improve from the stimulus that that puts on our body and then when we recover from that is when we see the improvements. But if all we&#8217;re doing is applying the stimulus and there&#8217;s not enough time to recover. We can&#8217;t make that like step by step progression and that can get hard to figure out after a while. But that&#8217;s that&#8217;s one of the things that I would I would say is important to be mindful of. Is is if you&#8217;re serious about speed training and you&#8217;re not seeing the proper suit like is, don&#8217;t be afraid to play around with doing doing less basic. 1:04:14 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroThat&#8217;s such a great point and one that I hope the people listening take to heart, and that goes for their strength training, that goes for you know, running, walking, all of it, that you know sometimes you you can just be putting too much stress and stimulus into the body and you&#8217;re never giving it time to go through that repair and recovery period. 1:04:34 &#8211; Mike CarrollYeah, and that&#8217;s that&#8217;s also like when people start to get peaks and pains or get an injury and like injuries are by far the quickest way to derail progress, generous fitness and health or getting better at golf, because when you ask when you&#8217;re forced to take time out, there&#8217;s nothing more you know insuring and there&#8217;s nothing, obviously, that ruins consistency like an injury. So there&#8217;s there&#8217;s a certain faction of people where they struggle with the motivation to exercise Like they&#8217;re more. They struggle with actually showing up and doing it and getting into a routine. But then there is definitely a faction of people where they really struggle to not push themselves to act. They&#8217;re in the mindset that more and harder is always better than that&#8217;s also a problem. And when those people are basically given like some extra time to recover and maybe they put more of an emphasis on, like their sleep and nutrition rather than just how hard they&#8217;re doing their training sessions, that&#8217;s when they really start to make progress. But they struggle because you&#8217;re literally telling them no, like two days in this week or whatever, like your job is to is to not exercise Like I want you to do, like you can go for a walk or something like that, but I want you to stay like relaxed and give your body a chance to recover. I don&#8217;t want you doing another like hit session or I don&#8217;t want you, you know, doing an extra workout for whatever reason, like that&#8217;s just delaying the recovery and you can&#8217;t make, you can&#8217;t get benefits from it. 1:06:15 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroTotally, mike, this has been awesome. I got a couple of questions that we ask everybody at the end of the show to wrap up here so we won&#8217;t take up too much of your time. So, just like we asked everybody on the show, caddy Shack or Happy Gilmore. 1:06:28 &#8211; Mike CarrollHappy Gilmore. 1:06:30 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroI figured strength speed. You know, it&#8217;s all all about hitting bombs, right. 1:06:34 &#8211; Mike CarrollYeah, exactly. 1:06:36 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroIf you could pick a walk up song to the first T-Box, what&#8217;s your song? 1:06:40 &#8211; Mike CarrollYeah, DMX X, gonna give it to ya. Nice, I just thought my Spotify rapped. You know that everybody was posting yesterday. Yeah, and two of my top number one of two songs were both DMX. 1:06:58 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroI haven&#8217;t even opened mine up yet, but I&#8217;m gonna guess Zach Bryan&#8217;s probably at the top of mine, but there&#8217;s some probably 90s hip hop and rapping there for sure. Yeah, is there a book that you like to recommend to people, one that maybe you&#8217;ve read, that means a lot to you and that you tend to recommend or have shared with a lot of folks, whether it be golf, fitness or just something else. 1:07:19 &#8211; Mike CarrollI go with two for like everyday life stuff. I would say Katalina Cabots by James Clear. I think it was really good. Probably a popular answer, I&#8217;m sure, but it&#8217;s really good. And then for golf, I think that everybody every like teen golfer that&#8217;s better interested in understanding golf better and improving should read every shop counts by Mark Brody. Arguably nobody has had a bigger influence on the direction that golf has went in the last 10 years or so in Mark Brody. 1:07:56 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroYeah, I would totally agree with that for sure. If you could pick a dream for some celebrities, athletes, whoever it might be, that you could go play golf with who&#8217;s in your for some. 1:08:07 &#8211; Mike CarrollSo I never got to meet either of my crowd sawters and they passed before I was born. So I had picked both of those and probably Rory I&#8217;m a big Rory son. 1:08:22 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroAwesome, can&#8217;t imagine. Why. 1:08:24 &#8211; Mike CarrollYeah, well, when I was so Rory is, I think, maybe two years older than me so like when I was a teenager playing in Ireland growing up, rory was kind of getting what he was. He was already famous in Ireland. He was famous in Ireland from when he was quite young and then obviously his progression was very, very fast and high. So, following him for like a long time I&#8217;d love to play with him Excellent. 1:08:52 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroIs there a bucket list course that if we said, Mike, we&#8217;re flying the 18STRONG jet, we&#8217;re taking you anywhere you want to go. We have access to go to any golf course on the planet. Where are you going? 1:09:03 &#8211; Mike CarrollI think I&#8217;d really like to play at Royal County Dau in Ireland, under the condition that we get a good day of weather. There&#8217;s so many really good courses in Ireland that I haven&#8217;t played because I moved here like shortly after college, which is kind of when it&#8217;s only there when you can start before the play, that when you kind of have your own card stuff. I got to play Cyprus Point last year, which was really cool, which is probably one of the more popular ones, and I went to the Masters last year as well to watch. So I&#8217;ve seen both of those places. I think I&#8217;ve seen some pictures of what can get out and heard reports and it looks really nice. So that&#8217;s probably top of my list right now. But I&#8217;m not a huge golf course. You know sicko. Some people are like, oh my God, have you seen this place? Or they&#8217;re really interested in like golf course architecture or layouts and stuff like that. I&#8217;m not huge for that. Like I appreciate a good one if I&#8217;m there, but I don&#8217;t really have a list of courses where I have to go play here. 1:10:10 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroGot it All right. You obviously have a very robust social media presence. Is there a social media account that you like to follow, like to watch and this doesn&#8217;t have to be in the golf realm at all that you would recommend to the 18STRONG crew? 1:10:25 &#8211; Mike CarrollSo yeah, it&#8217;s funny. I immediately thought of, like educational ones. People who listen to this show, I think need to check out Chasing Scratch and they have a podcast, youtube channel, social media presence, their podcast in particular, chasing Scratch. I would say that people would really, really enjoy. Yeah, it&#8217;s basically about two guys in their late 30s with regular jobs, families there are never any gaps and they kind of come up with an idea one day Could we get to scratch in a year? And they start to document their progress and, yeah, it goes from there and they&#8217;re both hilarious, but it also has times where it&#8217;s serious and there&#8217;s some soul searching. That&#8217;s very good. I highly recommend it. 1:11:24 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroAwesome, We&#8217;ll definitely check it out. And last piece what&#8217;s the best piece of golf advice that you&#8217;ve ever been given? 1:11:41 &#8211; Mike CarrollIt&#8217;s pretty cliche, but I saw it depends. I&#8217;m going to go with two. So number one is that you can&#8217;t get away. If you want to get really good at golf, you can&#8217;t get away from the importance of ball and striker. 1:12:00 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroYou have to hit a lot of greens. 1:12:03 &#8211; Mike CarrollIf you look at the statistics between greens and regulation and average store hand-to-hand count, that relationship is very true. You have to get good at hitting the ball. You have to get used to making a lot of boring cheap-blood prayers. Obviously that requires a lot of work and time to put into it, but in terms of how somebody could maybe improve tomorrow is just trying to be present and actually follow the mantra of one shot at a time. What that means is that you&#8217;re not allowing how previous shots in the route have wiped or what the outcome of the upcoming shot might mean for your score or your handicap or place in the tournament affect how you approach the current shot. Hearing Try and treat each golf shot as a separate entity. Something that I try and do when I&#8217;m playing it might sound kind of weird but I guess like a land-shot or something that I have is I try and be the world&#8217;s best caddy to myself. I try and essentially talk to myself in a way that if I was working for my best friend or my player and trying to have them do as well as possible over each shot in the round, that&#8217;s kind of the way that I try and approach it. 1:13:26 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroThat&#8217;s probably helped save you from trying to make a few of those hero shots out of the trees cutting a ball around 100%, like I would say. 1:13:36 &#8211; Mike CarrollAn area where I&#8217;ve had to get better on the golf course and I still fall into a trap is getting too aggressive with second shots on pair of fives, what I&#8217;d not in a great position off the tee or there&#8217;s trouble over on the green because you&#8217;re thinking these are the holes where you should make birdie, should be up around the green in two, and then all of a sudden it can be really hard to make prayer. Scott Flossus has a product system called Decade which has some really good stuff about that for any kind of very keen golfers. 1:14:18 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroYeah, we actually just had Scott on the show just a couple of weeks ago. 1:14:22 &#8211; Mike CarrollYeah, his stuff is really really fantastic. 1:14:25 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroReally. Yeah, it&#8217;s awesome. All right, my friend, this was awesome. I&#8217;ve been sitting and talking to you for another couple of hours, but this has been so great to finally meet you in person, kind of, and get to know you. But pick your brain a little bit and I know the 18STRONG crew is totally going to go check out all of your stuff if they&#8217;re not already on your platforms. But can&#8217;t thank you enough for the time and just keep up doing the great work, man. 1:14:48 &#8211; Mike CarrollThanks, jeff I appreciate it. 1:14:53 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroThanks for listening to the 18STRONG podcast and if you found this episode helpful, don&#8217;t forget to share it with your friends. And, of course, go follow us over on Instagram at 18STRONG. Thanks again. We&#8217;ll catch up with you next week. Stay great hard, practice smart and play better golf. Transcribed by https://podium.page

Guest: Dylan Wu (PGA Tour Golfer)Host: Jeff PelizzaroEpisode Number: 360Podcast: The 18STRONG PodcastPartners: Linksoul, 1stPhorm Summary On this installment of the 18STRONG Podcast, join us as we sit down with PGA Tour golfer, Dylan Wu. Listen in as Dylan shares his journey from childhood golf games with his family to becoming a professional golfer. Get a glimpse into the life of a pro golfer, as Dylan gives us insight into the challenges of traveling on tour, prioritizing fitness, nutrition, and recovery, and the importance of having a solid support system – including his brother who doubles as his full-time caddy. As we navigate the complex world of professional golf, we get an inside look at how failure is often a stepping stone to success. Dylan discusses his experiences on both the Korn Ferry Tour and the PGA Tour, highlighting the significance of learning from setbacks and the mental toughness required in high-pressure situations on the course. Further along, we explore the lifestyle changes and challenges associated with transitioning from the Korn Ferry Tour to the PGA Tour, including changes in course conditions and competition levels. Wrapping up the episode, Dylan opens up about his off-season training and how he&#8217;s constantly working on improving his golf swing and overall performance. He also discusses the critical role of fitness and nutrition in his career, and how it contributes to his performance on the course. Finally, Dylan reveals his love for golf literature, his dream celebrity foursomes, and bucket list golf courses, as well as sharing some invaluable advice for success. So whether you&#8217;re a golf enthusiast or just love a good success story, this episode with Dylan Wu is one you don&#8217;t want to miss. Main Topics (00:03) Interview With Dylan Wu PGA Tour golfer Dylan Wu shares his journey, experiences, and support system, including his brother as his caddy and first tour win. (13:46) Learning From Failure in Golf Professional golfer&#8217;s experiences on Korn Ferry and PGA Tour, learning from failures, visualizations, and differences in competition level. (17:49) Golf Conditions and Tour Travel Changes PGA Tour vs. Korn Ferry Tour: Course conditions, competition level, travel logistics, and upcoming schedule changes for professional golfers. (28:24) Improving Golf Swing and Performance Off-season training for professional golfers focuses on improving mobility, posture, and swing changes, while also mastering skills for tournament performance. (34:26) Playing Golf Golfers of varying skill levels discuss swing thoughts, visualizing shots, and practicing effectively on the course. (46:01) Fitness and Nutrition in Golf Importance Fitness, nutrition, and mental benefits in golf, including MyFitnessPal app, warm-up exercises, and preference for Caddyshack. (52:54) Book Recommendations and Dream Golf Courses Professional golfer Dylan Wu recommends books on the mental side of golf, shares dream celebrity foursome and discusses bucket list golf courses and favorite golf shoes. (01:00:39) The Key to Success Professional golfer Dylan Wu shares insights on hard work, humility, and leaving it all on the course, with the help of 18STRONG. Follow Dylan Wu Instagram: @dylan_wu59 Twitter: @Dylan_Wu59 Links Mentioned True Linkswear MyFitnessPal Episode Partners: LINKSOUL:&nbsp;For your 20% discount on LINKSOUL gear, go to&nbsp;18strong.com/linksoul&nbsp;or click the logo above. 1st Phorm: Try any of the 1st Phorm products with FREE SHIPPING, go to 1stphorm.com/18strong.com (By using this link, you will be entered into our Monthly 1st Phorm Giveaway!) More Cool Stuff to Check Out: To continue the conversation and ask any questions you may have, head over to the&nbsp;18STRONG Movement group on Facebook. 18STRONG Pro Shop (Get your 18STRONG gear!) 18STRONG Resources (All of the cool stuff we recommend: products, books, golf stuff, etc &#8211; and discount codes for the 18STRONG Crew) Want the full episode transcript? (click the &#8220;+&#8221; ????????) 0:00:04 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroThe 18STRONG Podcast, episode number 360 with Dylan Wu, pga Tour golfer. What&#8217;s up, guys? Welcome back to the 18STRONG Podcast, where we&#8217;re here to help you build a stronger game, because we believe that everyone deserves to play better, longer. In today&#8217;s episode we are interviewing Dylan Wu, pga Tour golfer, and we get a chance to talk to him about really him working his way onto the tour from Northwestern University through the Canadian Tour, corn Fairy Tour, all the way up to the PGA Tour. We talk about his challenges, his successes and even some stories about him and his having his brother on the bag as his caddy which he&#8217;s now his full-time caddy, but some funny stories from when he first started out. And then we&#8217;re going to talk about his fitness and his nutrition and really the lifestyle that he lives on the PGA Tour Lot of travel, lot of situations where he has to really plan out what he&#8217;s doing, and so his work on his fitness game, his nutrition and really recovery is very, very important to him. So we&#8217;re going to talk about all that in this episode with Dylan. Right after this, our partners over at Linksoul have been providing us with the best apparel for both on the course and off the course, from polos to t-shirts like the one I have on right now. Everything that they have is meant to be worn from the golf course to wherever you&#8217;re going next, whether that be casual, whether that be to the beach, there&#8217;s all different options over there. So go to 18strong.com slash Linksoul. You&#8217;ll get 20% off of anything in your cart over on Linksoul&#8217;s website. So again, 18strong.com slash Linksoul for our favorite brand of apparel, for anything on the golf course and off. Now let&#8217;s get to this week&#8217;s interview, Dylan Wu. Welcome to the 18strong podcast. 0:02:05 &#8211; Dylan WuThanks for having me, guys. 0:02:06 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroYeah, for sure, man. This is exciting. I&#8217;m really excited to talk to you about your career on the Korn Ferry tour the last couple years on the PGA Tour, and we were just kind of catching up about you starting out playing golf at such a young age, like three years old. So give us a little background on you and your history with your family and playing golf with your dad, and then we&#8217;ll jump into the rest of the career. 0:02:28 &#8211; Dylan WuYeah, so I grew up in Southern Oregon, a town called Medford, pretty close to the border of California, the oldest of four. But yeah, when I was born my dad started learning the game of golf and I have pictures of myself when I was one or two on the button green. I don&#8217;t remember them, but it happened and my earliest memory I remember is just carrying a set of Snoopy clubs to the range of my dad. But the one thing cool thing is my brothers are twin brothers, 16 months younger than me and they both played college golf. I played golf in Northwestern. Jeremy, who actually Caddys for me now, played golf at Valparaiso, and then my other brother played golf at the Air Force. And then my sister just graduated this past spring from Lipscomb University in Nashville. So we have four D1 golfers in the family, which is pretty cool. 0:03:33 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroYeah. So I mean, obviously you guys played a ton of golf together and then your brother now is on the bag and has been cadding for you for the last few years. We had some technical difficulties, so you actually just told me the story, but I&#8217;m gonna ask you to go ahead and tell it again about you bringing your brother on the bag and what that was like. 0:03:49 &#8211; Dylan WuYeah. So I was on the Korn Ferry. This is back in 2021. I actually just qualified for the US Open and he was still working for Ernst Young in tax and accounting and he came to watch me at the US Open as a fan Boosing and just watching golf and having a good time. And I was kind of going in a different direction with my caddy and I wanted to kind of get a little more confidence in my own ability and own decision-making. So I kind of wanted to have Jeremy work one week the following week after the US Open, just carrying the bag and keeping it chill and just having good time. I also remember like told him I&#8217;d pay all his expenses at the beginning and then give him a percentage and like Maine is like the most expensive place, he&#8217;s eating lobster like 24-7. I&#8217;m like this is not a good deal for me but we end up playing pretty well. That week Finished 15th and I was like, okay, let&#8217;s caddy for a little bit. So three weeks later, playing in Springfield Missouri, his fourth week on the bag, we end up winning the tournament, which is unreal my only win on a PTA Tour sanctioned event today. But I remember a funny moment on Sunday. It was around this part three. I&#8217;m like there&#8217;s four holes left. I have a two-shot lead. And I&#8217;m like, what are you doing? You&#8217;re not even helping get a yardage. You need to do something. You&#8217;re just standing there and I&#8217;m like, dude, we&#8217;re four holes from winning. Like just let&#8217;s get through this. And he&#8217;s like, oh yeah, I probably should do something. And I even look at the notes from that week when we won and other weeks when he first started cadding for me and it&#8217;s like the most basic notes possible. It&#8217;s like right side good, left side bad. It&#8217;s like no notes of the wind or where the pin location is, how far I was hitting it. I&#8217;m just like, yeah, you basically were useless that week but we won. We actually just came out with a golf diadis article in October and I tell that story and the first review. I say that Jeremy was useless, but they didn&#8217;t really say anything after that. He&#8217;s way better at cadding now, but they kind of just left it like that. So I&#8217;m like, oh, you guys should probably say that he&#8217;s actually a good caddy now. 0:06:34 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroYeah, he&#8217;s actually getting better yeah. 0:06:37 &#8211; Dylan WuSo the chemistry now is really good. But yeah, having your brother on the bag is definitely very unique. The one thing is you can be very transparent and honest, which is good or bad sometimes, because sometimes you just want to yell at your brother, Like I&#8217;m the big brother, I&#8217;m like he&#8217;s my little brother and I&#8217;m the boss. So like yeah, you should listen to me, I&#8217;ll just yell at you. Talking to some other players, like Harry Higgs has his brother on the bag and we played with Harry one time and he just told me, like if anything goes wrong, I just want to kill Al, his caddy and brother. So it&#8217;s kind of the same way. Sometimes you just yell at your brother just to yell at them. But the one thing about your brother is that you can say anything to them. They&#8217;re always going to not take it personally and going to be there for no matter what. Like just wants the best for you. So that&#8217;s the one thing that&#8217;s been going good. Like honestly, my career has been slowly just going up and our chemistry has been just getting better. 0:07:40 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroI mean, obviously you guys are good buddies. Has it ever gotten a little heated out there? 0:07:45 &#8211; Dylan WuOh hundreds on. Yeah, I mean the stuff you hear between players and caddies. It&#8217;s like players are psycho. It&#8217;s like sometimes caddy just has to be a punching bag. Like you might be blaming the caddy, but like sometimes the caddy can do anything wrong and you just want to yell at them. You just need somebody to take it, because if you just bottle it inside it&#8217;s not going to turn out well. So sometimes I&#8217;m just like Jeremy. I&#8217;m like just don&#8217;t take it personal and just like sometimes just be pissed off and like just let just take it. But there&#8217;s times in the beginning where Jeremy is a little stubborn and I&#8217;m like he&#8217;s like talking back. I&#8217;m like why are you talking back? Do you think any other caddy is talking back? 0:08:26 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroYeah, that&#8217;s a different dynamic, having your little brother and because, yeah, I can just picture me and my little brother out on the course and him, you know, spitting it back, but then being the boss and being like, no, like you have to listen to me right now, this is the way this goes. So, as you came out of Northwestern University and then played some Canadian tour, I believe, but then got onto the corn fairy tour, I know that you had a situation where and this was in that article, because I read that article just this past week about where you missed a five foot putt in a Monday qualifier and kind of like really had you kind of put some things into perspective, what happened there and then what was the trajectory from there to you mentioned. Then you won in Springfield, right, but Yomo, I think in the article you said that you know that really helped push you along because you were so close and then just kind of helped move you forward into having more desire to get out there and win. 0:09:24 &#8211; Dylan WuFor sure. Now I look at it, it was maybe a lowest point I&#8217;ve been in my golf career. Just because TurnPro in 2018, played in Canada, played decent, did Q-School, made it to Final Stage, which is a good big deal, but didn&#8217;t get guaranteed starts, finished like 85th at Final Stage. So I conditional set no status going into 2019. So I had to do a bunch of Monday qualifiers in the beginning of the year and I was in Kansas City. My game was feeling good, I was in the 844 playoffs and the second or third playoff hole I have a five footer to keep on going and it would have been a 3 for 2. After that and the guys who made par like were spraying it in the trees, like getting a little lucky, and I was like, okay, make this, we&#8217;ll be fine. And I remember hitting it and leaving it short and I&#8217;m like what the hell? I remember. So I literally tapped in, shook everybody&#8217;s hand, walked to the car, put my bag in the back of the rental car, closed it drove out like calmly, and as soon as I turned out of the clubhouse, I just remember just yelling and just like slamming my head into the steering wheel and just like thinking to myself like what am I doing? Like what? This isn&#8217;t even fun. Like this sucks. Like you can&#8217;t even get through a Monday qualifier. Or like when you&#8217;re playing well, it&#8217;s like every opportunity matters. I was like gosh, but it just shows that Monday qualifiers suck. It&#8217;s like it&#8217;s a very unique part of professional golf. It&#8217;s like one day just shoot out, like golf is four rounds, consistency and like every whole matters. But like if you don&#8217;t get off to a good start on Monday qualifier, you&#8217;re just like gone. Like anybody can play well on one day, especially on a Monday qualifier courses because they&#8217;re usually easier versus in a tour event in harder conditions, under four rounds. So before it still gave me a lot of confidence, but I remember that moment. I was just like this sucks. And honestly, a month later I ended up getting into the cornfield event in Springfield, illinois my second ever cornfield event and I shoot 65, 63 on the weekend getting a playoff. And then I lose on the third playoff hole to the guy who was number two on the points list and he made a 25 footer for birdie. So I went from having conditional status to having full status and being in the rest of the season. So that was huge. Yeah, it just yeah, that was. That was very huge. And then kept my card going into 2020. So, at full status, going to 2020 on the cornfield, and I started the season awesome. And if it wasn&#8217;t for COVID, I would have got my tour card in 2020. Oh, really. But because, yeah, because of COVID nobody graduated and there was two years on tour. So instead of finishing in the top 25 after 25 events, you have to do it after 45 events, which is 10 times harder. Yeah, it takes so many more points. It was so hard and that&#8217;s why that Springfield, missouri, was the end of 2021. So then I got my tour card in the fall of 2021. And now I&#8217;ve just finished my second year on tour. 0:13:10 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroAwesome and you had an event in the Bahamas, I think it was, where you said that you had a seven shot lead. You kind of let that drift away a little bit. But what I thought was really cool in the interview that you were talking about this is that you said that the ability for you to have I think it was maybe a bad a rough Saturday where you lost the lead but then you were able to grind back and get to a T2. And it sounded like you really took a lot away from that fact that you were in the lead, you were able to go low, didn&#8217;t quite win, but you were able to kind of bounce back. Is that right? 0:13:45 &#8211; Dylan WuYeah, 100%. So first event of 2020, we&#8217;re in Bahamas, exuma. It&#8217;s like the windiest place on earth and for some reason the first two days I just black out 11 under par, cuts like five over. I have a seven shot lead and it&#8217;s like probably one of the worst places to have a seven shot lead because it&#8217;s just so windy and there&#8217;s trouble everywhere. I just lost it really easily, not even like hitting that bad of shots and I was just like that&#8217;s tough, but I lost it after like the first four or five holes on Saturday and then could have easily melted and finished like what 25th, the 30th and just bad week, but kind of just hung in there and just grind it and then like every point matters on the corn for it when you&#8217;re trying to get your tour card. So finishing T2 was huge and it just gave me a lot of experience from that moment, like I&#8217;ve never been in that position before and I just learned a lot and I think that really helped me moving forward a year and a half later to winning in Springfield Missouri when I had the second opportunity and the Springfield Missouri was actually kind of new too, because I&#8217;ve never held a 74 hole lead and I think just the experiences when you fail or you just don&#8217;t win, like you just learned so much more from those and then, yeah, that just kind of helped me just catapult to the PGA Tour and, honestly, just like all the failures you have or the struggles you have, as long as you learn from them, you&#8217;ll only get better. Like, whether you&#8217;re hitting a golf shot or arounds, like as long as you see every shot or everything as an experience into your memory bank, like that you&#8217;re always learning. Whether I miss the cut or I play really well, it&#8217;s all about moving forward and helping you get better for the next time. 0:15:46 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroDo you ever find yourself drawing on those moments like legitimately in an event, or like you know, like I got to hit a great seven iron here. Do you ever flash back to like shots that you&#8217;ve hit with that seven iron or different situations that you&#8217;ve been in that are similar to that, where you know like, hey, I&#8217;ve done this before. 0:16:04 &#8211; Dylan WuYeah, I don&#8217;t necessarily remember images of hitting it before, but having like a positive visual image or a memory or just bring it back, it really helps. Like I&#8217;ve been here before, like you said, is what I tell myself you&#8217;ve been here, you can do this, you can do this, whether you&#8217;re hitting a five footer to win a tournament or to make the cut. It&#8217;s like you&#8217;ve hit this putz so many times in practice. It&#8217;s just like you have to execute it in tournament atmosphere, which is way harder. So just anything you can draw on from experiences where it&#8217;s good or bad, and it&#8217;s very helpful, like I think, when, whatever your failures, and then the next time you&#8217;re in it you can be like this is what happened last time, like what I think went wrong, and let&#8217;s just focus a little more on like trying to not do that. Yeah, I try to do better, but yeah, all of those experiences are just. I mean, I&#8217;m 27, but I feel like I&#8217;ve had so many experiences already and I can&#8217;t even believe guys who have been playing till like they&#8217;re 60 and have like 25 years on tour and it&#8217;s just so much experience and it&#8217;s like sometimes getting mad and getting frustrated like doesn&#8217;t make sense, like what&#8217;s the worst thing that&#8217;s going to happen? 0:17:25 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroYou&#8217;re going to hit another golf shot, so yeah, what&#8217;s been the biggest change from corn fairy tour to the PGA tour as far as like the, from the competitive level? Because obviously the guys on the corn fairy tour I mean we&#8217;re seeing incredible athleticism, incredible golfers. I mean we see guys coming from the corn fairy tour, straight from the corn fairy tour winning in some of these events. What have you noticed has been a big, bigger change from one to the other. 0:17:53 &#8211; Dylan WuHonestly, like a really big change is the golf courses and the conditioning. Let&#8217;s say like the PGA tour can kind of choose where they want to play every week. Like you&#8217;re playing in an area at the best time of the year, perfect conditions or at least ideal for court setup, like rough can be long, firm, it might be windy, but like it&#8217;s just, it&#8217;s just way more pure conditions versus on the corn fairy it&#8217;s a little more wet, greens are softer, less rough, and it&#8217;s kind of just score Like until you get to the PGA tour. Like college golf is closer to the PGA tour than corn fairy, almost because you play better courses in college than you do on the corn fairy. Like if a course is not hosting their PGA tour event, they want to host their alma mater. People love their schools, they want to. So like the college events I played in college you play Aaron Hills, olympia Fields, tpc, harding Park. I mean you play every. You play every cool course because people love college golf. Yeah, they don&#8217;t like mini tours and corn fairy events as much, but that&#8217;s I&#8217;d say the biggest is the setup and yeah, the level is just so razor thin, like I honestly talking to especially guys that play on both tours, like older guys who&#8217;ve experienced a lot on the PGA tour and now are playing on the corn fairy a little bit. It&#8217;s just like it&#8217;s so thin. It&#8217;s just like all about playing well at the right time, like that&#8217;s what golf is. It&#8217;s like anybody can go go hit a good shot, but can you hit it under pressure when it matters the most, like can you get through Q school when it matters the most to further your career? Career, you make the cut. You play well in the back then to make the cut, just like everybody can do it when they&#8217;re practicing, but can you do it when it matters the most and it&#8217;s just small stuff. And then being a rookie on the PGA tour is hard because you&#8217;re seeing everything for the first time. You really do feel like a rookie when you don&#8217;t even know where to register, like my rookie year, like where is parking, like what do I do? Just the small stuff. And then now I&#8217;m going to be finishing my second year, starting next year. I remember my second year was just so comfortable and basically you&#8217;re going to play all these tournaments the third time. There&#8217;s a few tournaments that I&#8217;m going to be playing for the first time, which will be super exciting. But being comfortable is also a huge part, like when you&#8217;re playing at a new place, where they&#8217;re on the Korn Ferry, on the PGA tour. Seeing something the first time, you&#8217;re a little uncomfortable. Once you have one tournament, or even one round, you&#8217;re just way more comfortable. 0:20:49 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroYeah, and hopefully your brother took better notes the first time around than he used to. 0:20:54 &#8211; Dylan WuYeah, seriously, oh brutal. 0:20:58 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroHow has the travel these days now? Because obviously, being on the tour, you&#8217;ve got your schedule laid out a little bit more. And if you could even talk a little bit about the end of the year, what the fall season was like, and then moving into next year, what do you have access to being in? I think you were finished 86 then FedEx Cup points yeah. 0:21:21 &#8211; Dylan WuIt&#8217;s so unique right now with the PGA tour because everything is changing. Like my rookie year was two years ago and it&#8217;s not even close the same as this year and next year is going to be different. Yeah, like I finished 86 after the Wyndham Championship and I usually would get into the playoffs and the playoffs were top 70. And now these fall series are finalizing the top 125s when in the past it&#8217;s the beginning of the season. So it&#8217;s so weird. Like I remember playing these fall events in the fall and I&#8217;m like this doesn&#8217;t seem part of the same season. And this past season we basically had two falls, so you had the fall of 22 and the fall of 23 in the same season and then we&#8217;ll start January calendar year in 2024 season. But, to answer your question, like the lifestyle and the traveling is very busy. I&#8217;m really looking forward to next year because it&#8217;ll be the first year we&#8217;re going to kind of plan and pick my schedule At least the normal regular full side PJ Tour events, because the designated events next year are all going to be small fields. So if you&#8217;re not a top player and didn&#8217;t finish in the top 50 in the FedEx Cup this past year, you won&#8217;t be in the designated events you kind of can play your way into if you&#8217;re playing well. So it&#8217;s just nice to know like I don&#8217;t have to play any Monday qualifiers like this past season on the PJ Tour I basically barely kept status after my rookie year because of the guys that went to live. I struggled my rookie year and I finished in the conditional category, won 26 to 150. And honestly, like kept status by one shot, like two points, two FedEx Cup points over the season, which is one shot at some point. Like I play. I felt like I played horrible that first year but like every shot matters, like I was one shot away from going back to the corn fairy and luckily, with those guys going to live, I kept status on tour and I was able to play my way into bigger events out of the conditional category. And the conditional category this year sucked because you don&#8217;t even know you&#8217;re in tournaments Like you might be in alternate. Then you get in on Tuesday or Wednesday you might have to finish your tournament, play well, finish 15, like one shot out to the top 10, and then go catch a flight to do the Monday qualifier for the next week because you&#8217;re like second alternate. So it&#8217;s like the unknown stuff and the travel logistics that kind of sucked this year. But at the same time I was one shot away from going back to the corn fairy and I literally that one shot. I turned it into a really solid season on the PGA tour where I finished 86. Like, I think, my rookie year, I played 30 events, maybe just under, and I made like 13 or 14 cuts, and then this year I made 21 with a lot more better results. I mean, yeah, the first year was a struggle for sure, but I&#8217;m just looking forward next year to just knowing I&#8217;m in the field. I don&#8217;t have to check it all the time. Now I can see who&#8217;s in the field at the end. It just makes it easier to schedule stuff. I can plan something for, say, like John Deere Classic next year already now. I can plan for the fall next year if I want to. So, like going forward, I hope I can just plan my schedule all the time because that&#8217;s what the big guy&#8217;s going to do and I haven&#8217;t really had the opportunity yet. So I&#8217;m looking forward to that. But I&#8217;m definitely not going to take it for granted, because you just got to keep on working hard Until you really win on the PGA tour, your job&#8217;s not really secure. So yeah, I mean I love having a time this off season to rest because it&#8217;s been a busy year, but I&#8217;m excited to get back going in January and just keep it going. It&#8217;s awesome to be on the PGA tour. Sometimes the golf&#8217;s the easiest part. The travel, the lifestyle just being constantly on the road is probably the worst part. But there&#8217;s no better feeling than playing inside the ropes, hitting shots under pressure, like in front of the most fans possible, like. Some of the coolest moments this year were on Saturday at the Players&#8217; Championship On 17,. I hit first in the group, hits like eight feet First time I hit the green. The first three days I hit like on the fringe and then in the bunker. The first two days Hits eight feet. But it&#8217;s like four o&#8217;clock on Saturday, place is pretty buzzing. I hit a pretty good shot, cheer in and then my buddy Aaron Ryze, playing right behind me, oh right, no. Ting next in the same group Makes a hole in one and it was just one of the sickest moments that I didn&#8217;t even hit a shot. But I was like Holy shit, this is so cool, like the place is buzzing. Luckily I already hit my shot. Glad I didn&#8217;t have to go next. But luckily I made birdie. But that was a cool moment. I mean really cool moments this year. I couldn&#8217;t imagine, like at the beginning of the year, like these things happening, like I just had such a big increase to playing well on my second year than the first year, like I shot 61 this year at the American Express, 11 under I made an Albatross and rocket mortgage from 262 yards. I had to play with John Rom at the US Open. But that&#8217;s the one thing too is like I want I want to play against the best players in the world and see how I stack up against. So, like every time I&#8217;m playing in a big event, I want to play. I want to get paired with somebody who&#8217;s a big name. It&#8217;s just to watch them and just also learn and see how my game compares. That&#8217;s what you want. You want to play against the best. And yeah, I&#8217;m just looking forward to next year for sure, just trying to get better every year. Luckily, my career has kind of been slowly going up and up, so I hope I could just keep on getting better and better, and that&#8217;s all you can ask for. 0:27:31 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroSo what does that look like this offseason? Because that sounds like you had a little more time to kind of relax, recover a little bit. But I know you&#8217;re working with Adam and fitness wise and putting in a lot of time and effort. What does the fitness side look like? What are you working on golf wise? How does that play out right now? 0:27:47 &#8211; Dylan WuYeah, yeah, 100%. Like right now it&#8217;s nice to have a little offseason, so like right now I&#8217;m kind of addressing some of the stuff I need to improve fitness wise and then also technical wise in every part of my game, like, say, fitness right now One of the things we analyzed is that like I did a really good job of take care of my body the whole year and working out and feeling good, nothing hurting, and everything like that, and I feel like I&#8217;m strong enough to hit the ball far if I want to. But to help me gain speed this offseason it&#8217;s kind of just do things that are going to help my deficiencies and like one of the things is my overhead mobility. Like for some reason, like growing up kind of had bad posture. Growing up I wish my parents like told me, told me the stance rate, or like when I was like eight, not when I was like 16. But like my overhead mobility is not as great. So like really even like straightening my arm here it&#8217;s like really hard to do, like even the basic stuff. So like I think that&#8217;s why in my swing, sometimes when I get to the top, it&#8217;s a little harder to hold and stabilize or like pause Sometimes, like when I&#8217;m working on something, you want to slow it down, you want to pause. It&#8217;s really hard. So I&#8217;m trying to do a lot of like more corrective stuff, like that posture stuff, like I&#8217;m doing some kind of glute strength and just small stuff versus like heavy lifting, because I do a decent amount of that during the season and I feel like my strength isn&#8217;t the problem in the gym, it&#8217;s more making sure I&#8217;m being doing the right stuff to create speed and it&#8217;s kind of correcting the deficiencies a little bit. And I feel like I&#8217;m doing strength, making sure not just being able to like, say, squat, but able to like put my leg against the wall where I&#8217;m like in a position where I can&#8217;t use any other muscles to compensate, and like use strictly glute Like. I feel like my body is good at cheating yeah, cheating. And so like trying to make it where it&#8217;s really hard and your brain kind of works a lot, basically doing corrective exercises the past week where I spend like not even that much time but like 15-20 minutes, but it&#8217;s like very brain heavy versus like working out and doing a lot of exercise where it&#8217;s golf exercises, like rotation stuff, like that. But I know it&#8217;s not going to help me as much, as if I can get a little more range of motion in my upper body and like maybe it helps me hold the club a little stronger here or helps make it help my posture, helps me get less maybe kinks in my neck over the season, just from golf. You&#8217;re just so rounded all the time but just doing that stuff. And then on this on the technical side, I saw my coach on Monday. He came to Scott, still from Chicago, just doing more block practice right now. And one thing we&#8217;re trying to change my backswing a little bit. It&#8217;s getting getting a little deep in the cross now. It&#8217;s kind of hooking the ball too much. It feels more laid off and more in front of me. So it doesn&#8217;t feel great because I&#8217;m like the club&#8217;s like pointed this way. But it&#8217;s crazy thing with golf is like you try to change something in your swing and it feels so different and it&#8217;s like you may, you may be changed, the club like this much. Yeah, you just got exaggerated so much to make changes and that&#8217;s the one thing right now with an offseason, you can actually make changes and embrace it. So, like I&#8217;m, the process right now is like when I hit balls in practice and just try to do the motion right, like just getting comfortable doing that, not really caring where the ball goes. Right now it takes more like I played golf in Oregon the last two days with my brother and my dad but I didn&#8217;t really care where the golf balls going, because I&#8217;m trying to work on this stuff, because of I it doesn&#8217;t matter, I&#8217;m just playing with my buddies and stuff like that, but I want it to matter when it when I&#8217;m playing in the Sony and I start off in January. So you just want to embrace the change, because a lot of time in the middle of the season, it&#8217;s a lot of maintenance. You can&#8217;t really make changes, like on Tuesday and you&#8217;re trying to change your swing thoughts and you think it&#8217;s going to, you&#8217;re going to trust on Thursday or Friday. It&#8217;s just so hard. So this is a time where this week I&#8217;ll do a little block practice and then basically a little before Christmas is when I&#8217;ll ramp back into like tournament prep, hitting shots, executing, practicing more no one say practice with a purpose, but like mastery and just doing things that&#8217;s going to help me perform better and execute and get ready. Get ready for a tournament versus making this swing look pretty Right to make sure it&#8217;s functional. 0:32:45 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroYeah, yeah. So like kind of getting a little bit more into almost like games, game kind of situations where you got it, I got to hit this shot, or I got it, I got it. You know, dial in your distances and things like that For sure. 0:32:56 &#8211; Dylan WuYeah, just doing like drills for mastery and just try to get better. And then when you do those drills and you&#8217;re so you&#8217;re doing track men drills, hitting numbers, hitting the shot shapes you want, and like doing putting drills, working on your speed, pulling out a lot Then it makes golf just normal golf easier. You&#8217;re just Making your practice more tournament like. 0:33:24 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroLet&#8217;s take a second to thank our sponsors over at 1st Phorm, and this week I want to highlight their formula one post workout protein shake. I use this thing pretty much every day after my workouts because, let&#8217;s face it, being here in the gym Working all the time with clients putting on a podcast, it can sometimes be tough to get my protein in on a regular basis, and so I know that with the post workout shake the formula one, first of all, it&#8217;s fast acting. So right after your workout is a great time to get your protein in to help build your muscles, get yourself stronger and repair what you&#8217;ve done in the gym, but also, if you don&#8217;t know if you&#8217;re gonna be able to get your protein in in your regular meals, it&#8217;s just a great way to make sure that you&#8217;re supplementing and hitting those marks. So be sure to go over to 1st Phorm dot com forward slash 18STRONG to get your 1st Phorm Formula one protein shake, and everyone that enters through that link is gonna be put into a drawing every single month for free 1st Phorm products. So, again, go over to 1st Phorm dot com forward slash 18STRONG. I got a question for you, since you were just out playing with your buddies. When, when you&#8217;re playing with your buddies I mean, are they all different calibers of golfer? And when you&#8217;re out there, like what are the things that you see them do? That you&#8217;re like dude, that&#8217;s just, that&#8217;s just silliness that you&#8217;re, that you&#8217;re trying that yeah, no, it&#8217;s funny. 0:34:45 &#8211; Dylan WuI put with a lot of Normal players and pro-am, so whatever. Like I put with my brother, cat is race is a good golfer now. He&#8217;s actually better now that he was in college, which is hilarious, probably just from watching good golf. Try to think of the things that people do. It&#8217;s just, it&#8217;s really. It&#8217;s for me, it&#8217;s like if I see them swing one or two times, like I can, I can give him a pretty good tip and make it pretty simple and it helps them and they&#8217;re like surprised, like oh wow, it worked. I&#8217;m like, yeah, I know what I&#8217;m doing. Guys do this for a living. Like I can help you. Um, but just a small things I tell people, like when I do clinics or like I teach a little bit, say, if we&#8217;re like a Northwestern outing for my coach, like some small things that I try to do to help people are like go on the range and Hit the shots are actually gonna hit on the golf course because most people just play the course that they&#8217;re playing All the time. It&#8217;s like you know what you&#8217;re gonna hit, why you gonna hit. What you name is five iron. When you&#8217;re not gonna had five or when you&#8217;re playing Just makes no sense, right, I mean you might feel better but you&#8217;re not gonna hit that shot. So just practice like you&#8217;re gonna play a little and it makes it simple. It&#8217;s like just hit a few drivers and then put a lot chip. Probably not gonna hit every green, but it&#8217;s just funny watching a People play and like the stuff they say after it. It&#8217;s like I knew that was, it&#8217;s gonna go right. I&#8217;m like you guys are mental midgets kind of exactly yeah, like it&#8217;s like it&#8217;s gonna go right. I&#8217;m like how about we hit this left? Like people think that pros Don&#8217;t worry about like out of bounds or water, which is not true at all. Like I&#8217;m on a team like don&#8217;t. There&#8217;s. Some thoughts were like a don&#8217;t top this, like I can hit a bad shot. But it&#8217;s like I Acknowledge what&#8217;s out there, like the trees that abounds or the water, and I&#8217;m just like, okay, I&#8217;m gonna aim at this tree, I&#8217;m gonna hit this shot this way and see that I&#8217;m right here. The winds, here it&#8217;s gonna be. Now you&#8217;re just so focused on the shot you&#8217;re trying to hit that Hopefully you execute it decently well, but most of the time you won&#8217;t hit it out of bounds or in the water. You&#8217;re likely to hit in the water and out of bounds when you&#8217;re thinking about it, but also sometimes when you&#8217;re Pretending like you&#8217;re not, like oh, it&#8217;s not there, but then deep down there, it&#8217;s Behind, it&#8217;s just there. It&#8217;s like when you&#8217;re hitting a shot and like, oh, you know, I acknowledge in the water, like oh, it&#8217;s an easy hole, I&#8217;m like just Full-shitting yourself. 0:37:28 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroYeah, totally. When you&#8217;re out there, are you? Do you feel like at at your level and most of the pros out there? I guess you can&#8217;t speak for anybody else, but when you&#8217;re playing, are you ever Thinking swing thoughts? Or have you found it a way to really visualize your shot, feel the shot, pay attention to the shot, not so much what&#8217;s going on with the mechanics of your swing? 0:37:48 &#8211; Dylan WuI wish I could just Think the shot I want to hit and hit it. Like that&#8217;s one of my best friends, davis Riley, who&#8217;s a really good player on tour. I Just joke with him. He stripes it. I&#8217;m like, yeah, your swing thoughts are turn turn. That&#8217;s not everybody at all. I&#8217;ve always been a player that like has to have a few swing thoughts to play well. But it&#8217;s like not letting those swing thoughts like you have to control the shot you&#8217;re trying to hit. You got to feel like you have like ownership over it. Don&#8217;t just like, oh, I put this club in this position and I did that right and the shot turned out bad. Like no, let&#8217;s have, let&#8217;s have a little control and like Feel like you can hit this shot this way by doing this, you know. So I think that&#8217;s how I do it. Like I visualize shot I wanted a high cut. I&#8217;d be like, oh, did I cut? I need to make sure I do this backswing a little better for the hand. My hands are a little higher top Because I get the club a little more on plane. I don&#8217;t think like Because it gets more on plan. I&#8217;m just like I know if I have my hands higher here at laid off, it&#8217;s gonna easier to cut the ball. But I&#8217;m always a firm believer there&#8217;s like a few good swing thoughts that helps, just helps you keep it simple and have something to think about to produce the shot you want to hit. Because I mean, I had Thousand times more balls than other people and if they&#8217;re just like, imagine the shot and then just swinging, probably not gonna turn out exactly perfect every time, you got to practice quite a bit, but if you, if you know what you need to do to produce that shot, then you just focus on that a little bit and more or not it&#8217;s gonna get closer to hitting that shot, like when players slice it. I&#8217;m like let&#8217;s swing towards first base Like everybody plays baseball. Let&#8217;s get this underneath and swing right Like people. You understand that you need to swing right to draw the ball and you swing right To cut the ball and you swing left to cut the ball, which is weird. So Just small things like that. 0:39:57 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroNow, you played hockey grown up in and I believe that it took a little while to get your slap shot out of your golf swing. Is that what I heard? 0:40:05 &#8211; Dylan WuFor sure. I think a lot of my golf swing is from a hot, like I&#8217;m a very shallow, very open rotation, like I gained speed. When I think of a speed in my swing, I don&#8217;t think like arms or like pushing up anything, I think just rotating, and it&#8217;s probably just because I opened up for a one-timer, that&#8217;s, I was a right defenseman and then every time I was on a faceoff on the right side of the zone I Would be ready for a slap shot and that&#8217;s probably why I have a really weak hand left-hand grip Because of just your stick, that versus like clothes. So a lot of it comes from hockey. I mean, that&#8217;s what, deep down on, like God, I wish I had a normal grip, like a more conventional swing. But you got a note you got to figure out which, what makes you play good golf and your golf DNA and like what makes your golf swing good, like the stuff that you grew up doing well, and your swing is probably what&#8217;s gonna be good the rest of your life. But yeah, hockey, hockey was great, it was. It was so fun. My brothers that played good way to get anger out Versus golf at backfires pretty quickly. But the one thing I loved about golf more was that like it&#8217;s all on yourself. It&#8217;s like the highs are high but the lows are low, because you have nobody else to rely on. You have a caddy but you don&#8217;t have teammates to pass the puck to To like bail you out. And I was. I was a good hockey, like really good hockey player, my brothers and I were, and I was like the captain of the team. But I would just I&#8217;d be a little mean to other players because like you guys can do better, come on like let&#8217;s, let&#8217;s do your job. But I think that&#8217;s why I love golf so much, because it&#8217;s all on myself and I&#8217;m not afraid to tell myself Like I can do it, but I can. I&#8217;m not also I&#8217;m afraid to tell myself like that was a terrible golf shot, like it&#8217;s got to be honest with yourself. So it&#8217;s that blend. 0:42:07 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroAs you&#8217;re kind of ramping up in this offseason. You&#8217;re working on your fitness. You know you&#8217;re working on some of the block practice stuff, working on the golf game. I know that nutrition has been a big thing for you too. What are you focusing on nutrition-wise? How has that played an impact in your game? And, I would assume, when you&#8217;re traveling, that can be a big deal too 100%. 0:42:29 &#8211; Dylan WuYeah, I&#8217;ve been fortunate enough to surround myself with a good team, whether that&#8217;s my trainer, sports psychologist, my golf coach, but also I have a great sponsor in my fitness pal. They&#8217;ve been great with me. It&#8217;s been just coming up on two years. It&#8217;s the number one diet I&#8217;m tracking up in the country, just so easy for me to kind of track what I&#8217;m eating and make sure I&#8217;m eating healthy. But also making sure I&#8217;m hitting my calorie goals, because, honestly, when I&#8217;m walking around a golf I&#8217;m bringing a lot of calories. I might be working out in the gym before I even play. This is like I mean, every week I&#8217;m walking 9 to 100 holes. So making sure I&#8217;m hitting the calorie goals, like the macros, making sure I&#8217;m eating enough protein, just doing the small stuff, like making sure I&#8217;m supplying myself on the course with good snacks to keep my energy up. If I do all these things along with my fitness, then I know when I say perform badly, I&#8217;m not just performing badly because of my fitness or nutrition. That&#8217;s not a reason. And I feel like that&#8217;s a good component because you want to know why you struggle and you want it to just be basically golf. You don&#8217;t want it because you&#8217;re sleeping bad or eating bad, or feeling bad or injured, like if it&#8217;s golf. That&#8217;s why golf is sometimes the easiest part. My fitness has been great. It&#8217;s just so easy. I travel, go to grocery stores and then you can scan stuff so easily in the app and it goes right in there. I can just track what I eat really easily. I think for normal amateurs people don&#8217;t snack enough on the golf course and as a pro it&#8217;s hard to do too. Luckily I have a caddy that helps me tell me when to eat. Half his job is like all right, we&#8217;re at the turn, we&#8217;re at every six holes, let&#8217;s eat some food, or you need a snack, you need to drink water. You&#8217;re sweating a lot Like electrolytes. It&#8217;s just so important, I think. Just the fitness and taking care of your body whether that&#8217;s eating healthy or working out more or making yourself feel better by just doing a lot of mobility and stretching it&#8217;s just so important in our career, just because we&#8217;re constantly traveling, like in airplanes, driving, you&#8217;re just constantly on your feet and it&#8217;s just it&#8217;s kind of busy. So if I can kind of keep everything routine and just do the right stuff, especially when I&#8217;m on the road, that&#8217;s all I can ask for. And then I definitely I&#8217;m a big foodie, so I don&#8217;t have the greatest diet, especially a holiday season right now. Like I love to eat different foods and everything like that. But when I&#8217;m at tournaments I&#8217;m definitely a little more disciplined, like eat a good breakfast and lunch, especially when I&#8217;m playing, because that&#8217;s I just want to make sure that I&#8217;m not feeling bad or anything because I&#8217;m eating a bad meal. Like most of the time I&#8217;m eating breakfast on the road, I&#8217;m eating like an omelet with a bunch of veggies, a smoothie with protein and like spinach and stuff like that, and then some sausage or bacon, some protein or hot blood eggs, and for lunch I&#8217;m a lot of salads with salmon or chicken. Then dinner time is when I like mix it up. But I mean sometimes, when you finish around and it&#8217;s dark, just go straight to Chipotle and get a chicken bowl. That&#8217;s. That&#8217;s a go to that every, every loves. But yeah, my, my sponsor, my fitness has been great and for me, like I want to play golf for a long time and taking care of my body is a it&#8217;s a big thing and I just want to make sure that I can stay healthy, like Tiger&#8217;s playing this week Will&#8217;s out of sources coming back. He&#8217;s Will and I are the same age and he&#8217;s been out for seven months and he&#8217;s one of the best players in the world. If I can go my entire career without any problems or being basically being injured, free and healthy with no health problems, that&#8217;s all I can ask for. Yeah, so it&#8217;s just been been great to have a good team of sponsors, where it&#8217;s my trainer or my golf instructor all the way to all the sponsors are represented, and my family my wife it&#8217;s just been takes a whole team to to live in the crazy world of golf. 0:46:57 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroYeah. 0:46:58 &#8211; Dylan WuEspecially right now. It&#8217;s really crazy. 0:47:01 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroThere&#8217;s so many different things to manage right, and I don&#8217;t think that people give their nutrition and their hydration enough credit to how much that really impacts their game. As far as just making decisions or being and you know, most of us are playing 18 holes of golf not for, you know, not a full week of golf and for very competitive rounds, but even through the course of 18 holes or playing, going on a guy&#8217;s golf trip or something like that, where you know it just messes with your decisions, it messes with your fatigue and your ability to hit shots when you want to hit shots. And then, regarding my fitness pal, because I&#8217;ve used it quite a bit, I think that everybody benefits from track, like tracking the calories, at least some point in their lifetime to just understand, like, what am I really taking into my body? You know, here at 18th round, we&#8217;re all about fitness and health and nutrition and so a lot of our listeners are looking to get in better shape and lose weight and it&#8217;s like, well, if you don&#8217;t know what you&#8217;re taking in and you don&#8217;t know, you know what you&#8217;re expending, you&#8217;re kind of, you know, just shooting at it, shooting missiles in the air and not really understanding it. 0:48:05 &#8211; Dylan WuA hundred percent. I feel like when I use the app. It was a lot of knowledge I learned in the beginning, like how easy it is to eat unhealthy sometimes and like if I just do just simple stuff like I don&#8217;t know, just eat good food, there&#8217;s plenty of good food out there that&#8217;s healthy for you, that&#8217;s good tasting and just hydrating is just a huge part of it. But my fitness pal does a great job because you can kind of do everything with fitness, like your calories, losing weight, researching foods all under the same umbrella, which is great, yeah. So I&#8217;m proud to be an ambassador for them and I&#8217;m hoping I can stay healthy and fit for a long time. I mean, hopefully in a couple of years I will. I can be super fit like Camille of Ajegous he&#8217;s probably a perfect example of it but I&#8217;m a big foodie and I love enjoying different and sometimes I have a sweet tooth, but I just know taking care of your body is just so important. I think it&#8217;s really good for mental health too. Like you just feel better Sometimes. I always joke. This is like my slogan. Like the players challenge you, they&#8217;re like what&#8217;s your slogan? I&#8217;m like my slogan is like eat well, play well. It&#8217;s not necessarily eat healthy all the time, but it&#8217;s like eat good and you&#8217;ll play well. It&#8217;s like also feel well, feel good and you might play better. I mean sometimes it&#8217;s placebo effect. Like sometimes, if you think something&#8217;s making you feel better, you&#8217;re actually going to play better. Yeah, I mean, you&#8217;re not going to play worse by eating healthier. I&#8217;ll tell you that I think that burger on the turn is probably not going to help or that hot dog on the turn. But like when the couple snacks I carry all the time in my bag are like nuts are super easy jerky. I think it&#8217;s like go macro bars that a lot of players and caddies like to use Fruit banana. There&#8217;s some people who are players I&#8217;ve seen in the past who are very extreme. Like one guy carried a whole orange bell pepper. I&#8217;m like what are we doing? I&#8217;m like that&#8217;s a little extra. But yeah, probably nutrition is just so important. It&#8217;s just like, yeah, for me I just want to feel good when I&#8217;m getting to the golf course, like if I had 30 minutes I don&#8217;t know if I said this before, but if I had 30 minutes before around a golf and it&#8217;s going to the range without any warm up in the gym or spending 30 minutes in the gym and then rolling to the first tee. It&#8217;s probably 50-50 on what I&#8217;d rather do, because I feel so good warming up and activating the muscles that I need to swing well, when I get to the range in the tournament I feel good right away, versus, say, your junior golfer, you&#8217;re a weekend four, you just roll up, you&#8217;re like the first couple swings kind of sucks, my body is hurting, and just doing small stuff really helps. I travel with bands and I put my bands in my golf bag when I&#8217;m playing for fun with buddies, just because, even if I don&#8217;t have time to do some fitness stuff before, I can do some small stuff to make my body feel more stable, more flexible and swing the ball better. 0:51:35 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroYeah, it makes a huge difference Just getting everything activated, getting it loose and ready to go. All right, man, before we wrap it up, I got a couple questions that we&#8217;d like to ask everybody that comes on the show. I might throw an extra one in for you that I didn&#8217;t prep you with, but first of all, are you more of a caddy shack or happy go more guy? 0:51:54 &#8211; Dylan WuDefinitely more of a caddy shack. Now, the funny thing with my brother he&#8217;s never seen oh, he saw happy go more, but until this year he&#8217;d never watched caddy shack. He thought the greatest golf, the greatest game ever played, was the best golf movie. I&#8217;m like what are you talking about? That&#8217;s like the worst one. I&#8217;m like geez, dude, get us together. 0:52:14 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroLittle brothers, come on. All right, what would your walkup song be if you could pick a walkup song to the first T-Box? 0:52:21 &#8211; Dylan WuSo when we played the Zura classic with my buddy, justin Bull&#8217;s entrance song, sirens, which was really cool, but I think my personal walkup song, I think growing up my favorite song, like in high school, is Hall of Fame by Script pretty cool one, or I just I just feel like it was pretty amped. Another one that we loved for hockey was Lose Yourself by Eminem. Yep, it was a classic but probably Script of Hall of Fame. 0:52:53 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroAll right. Is there a book that you&#8217;d like to recommend to people that has meant something to you, or that you&#8217;ve read multiple times, or you&#8217;ve gotten something out of that you&#8217;d like to share with people? It doesn&#8217;t have to be a golf book. It could be really add to anything, it&#8217;s got to be. 0:53:08 &#8211; Dylan WuSome of the I think it&#8217;s Golf&#8217;s not a game of perfect Some of that golf stuff books I read my dad I learned golf basically the same time I was learning, but I just love learning about the mental side of the game. Just read so much like books like that and every shot is a purpose and Zen golf they&#8217;re just like so important to my success just how to properly think. There&#8217;s definitely some other books that I&#8217;ve read that are better for my entire outlook on life I just can&#8217;t think of right now. My wife&#8217;s a big reader, so it&#8217;s more of her recommendations that I read. But yeah, I think, yeah, that&#8217;s probably the best one. 0:53:57 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroAll right, if you could pick a celebrity foursome to play with. You get to spend four or five hours with whoever you want past, present, whoever who you&#8217;re playing with. 0:54:10 &#8211; Dylan WuI mean got a first one, but Tiger I think I just put one golfer in it, but Tiger&#8217;s just so instrumental to any professional golfer who&#8217;s played in the last I don&#8217;t know 10, 15 years. He&#8217;s the reason I wanted to play golf and he&#8217;s the reason why we get to play golf for a living, for more money nowadays. I definitely want to put a football player in there. I feel like I would want to play with Patrick from the Homes, just because it seems like a good vibe. I loved watching the Netflix show with him in it. Quarterback seems like it was just a good, just all around good dude. Steph Curry I want to play with because he&#8217;s a good golfer. Yeah, and he&#8217;s unreal. I mean, he&#8217;s the best shooter of all time. And I&#8217;m trying to think of a fourth celebrity, I think another celebrity probably. This is pretty selfish of me. My crush growing up was Blake Lively. She probably doesn&#8217;t play golf, but I&#8217;ll probably throw her in there and he probably want to throw a girl in there. 0:55:13 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroNice, I love it. 0:55:15 &#8211; Dylan WuPretty unique force up there. That&#8217;s pretty weird one. 0:55:17 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroYeah, yeah, Pretty good, though. Pretty good, All right. Now I know you guys don&#8217;t get to go and travel to play. You know some of the bucket list places that a lot of you know the recreational golfers do, because you guys are always traveling to play golf for your job. Is there any place that, if we said, Dylan, we&#8217;ve got the 18STRONG jet, we&#8217;ve got it fueled up, we&#8217;re picking you up, we&#8217;re going, we have access anywhere. Where are you going? 0:55:41 &#8211; Dylan WuPlace I&#8217;ve never played. I mean, I have never played in the Masters in Augusta, but I think I&#8217;m going to wait until I make it, hopefully in the near future. But I would love to play, probably Pine Valley, that&#8217;s supposed to be the best one. But I also want to go play golf overseas, like right now they&#8217;re playing golf in Australia. I&#8217;m looking. As long as my year goes well, next year I&#8217;m probably going to try to go play Australian Open next year. I mean, playing in the sand belt just sounds awesome, just looks so pure, firm and fast. Fans look awesome. But no, I&#8217;ve been lucky enough to play a lot of the best courses in the world. My favorite course I&#8217;ve ever played right now is Cypress Point. I love Pebble and Monterey so much. That&#8217;s just the best area in the world for golf. Just the views are unreal and it&#8217;s like nice sweater weather usually and it&#8217;s just such fun golf. 0:56:39 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroAll right. So the question that I don&#8217;t ask everybody, but I know that you&#8217;re a True Links wear guy and we&#8217;re big True Links wear fans here at 18STRONG. What&#8217;s your favorite on and, off course, true Links wear shoes. 0:56:53 &#8211; Dylan WuYeah, so funny story of True Links how I got into it. Middle of COVID or the summer after COVID of 2020, I was playing on the corn. Very we&#8217;re in Omaha by now, wife. It&#8217;s like you need some new shoes, just casual shoes. We&#8217;re just at a shopping mall in Omaha. I&#8217;m just trying on some shoes and I&#8217;m like, oh, looking at these knits, and I&#8217;m like these are kind of cool. And I get two of them and I&#8217;m checking out. I think I&#8217;m wearing golf clothes and they&#8217;re like these are golf shoes and I&#8217;m like what? Oh, like it&#8217;s a golf shoe company that makes this. And after buying it, I&#8217;m like doing research. I&#8217;m like I&#8217;m from Oregon, this is from the Pacific Northwest. Like how have I not even heard of this? So, literally after that, I remember reaching out to True Links after that and be like that try wearing your shoes. And it was a little different first, because I was wearing Nike shoes but I had some feet problems where, like the feet were too tight, I was getting like blisters a little bit and I was like I&#8217;ll try these shoes and I love them. But they didn&#8217;t have any spikes and I was like I was going to be an issue in the beginning but I&#8217;m like after one day with them they were awesome and I mean they&#8217;re made in Seattle Washington. They were rains like more than any other place. I&#8217;m not going to slip on the golf course. These shoes are probably waterproof. They&#8217;re probably good in the rain because they&#8217;re made there. My favorite off the course shoe it&#8217;s probably the knit. It&#8217;s like the knit threes Like I literally have every color and I travel with two or three of them I just wear. They&#8217;re perfect. I can wear them off the golf course. They look good for dinners where I&#8217;m wearing them in casual or something nice. I don&#8217;t mind using the ripstop sometimes. If I&#8217;m back home they&#8217;re pretty good. But my go-to shoe golf shoe is the Lex Tor. It&#8217;s last year&#8217;s model. That&#8217;s when I&#8217;ve been wearing a lot and the one I&#8217;ve actually been wearing the last couple of weeks. It&#8217;s like the dead golf or knit one knit hybrid, which is really cool actually, but truly it&#8217;s been great to me. I love those guys. The guys Jeremy Moore and Jason and Ryan all the more brothers that got a found. It are great. Jason runs true. Jeremy&#8217;s now my agent because of true Really. And then I get to play golf with Ryan. I mean, he&#8217;s an unreal golfer and from the Pacific Northwest, but it all happened from me as my wife telling me to go buy some shoes just casual shoes in Omaha. So that was three and a half years from now ago and I love wearing them. I mean, I sent truths to all my friends. I got married last year For all my grows and we got custom true shoes. They&#8217;re great, that&#8217;s awesome. They&#8217;re awesome. 0:59:54 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroYeah, those guys are great. We&#8217;ve had Jason on the show a while back and they&#8217;ve always been great to us. And I mean we&#8217;ve got a bunch of guys here in St Louis now rocking. You know, like we&#8217;re in the Midwest, nobody knows what true links wear is, except when you come around, our group of guys playing golf, so really cool. I got one last question for you what&#8217;s the best piece of golf advice that you&#8217;ve ever personally been given? 1:00:17 &#8211; Dylan WuI don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s necessarily golf advice, but for me and my golf career it&#8217;s like the quote I don&#8217;t know who said it, but hard work beats talent. What talent doesn&#8217;t work hard? I think it&#8217;s from MJ. I don&#8217;t know if Michael Jordan said that or Kevin Durant, but it&#8217;s a quote that I think really speaks to me. It&#8217;s like you just gotta work hard and go get after it. Like a lot of things in life won&#8217;t be given to you right away. You gotta go work hard for it. And sometimes, when you take things for granted, that&#8217;s when things go downhill. So, honestly, being really humble and just working at it and just kind of keeping your head down, like I tell myself like and tell people like if I can just keep my head down and I look up and I&#8217;m like 50 years old and I&#8217;ve still been playing on the PGA Tour, then I&#8217;ve made it Like just work hard Cause then you have no regrets. It&#8217;s like on the golf course, like I can keep my head down for all 72 holes, no matter if I had bad shots or make mistakes. Like I know I&#8217;m leaving the golf course, leaving it all out there, playing my best, and that&#8217;s all you can ask for. 1:01:30 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroSuch great advice. Dylan, I can&#8217;t thank you enough for coming on. Man, this was a lot of fun getting to know you, getting to hear a little bit more about your story and the whole 18STRONG crew. We&#8217;re gonna be pulling for you next year, in 2024. 1:01:42 &#8211; Dylan WuNo, I appreciate it, guys. Thanks for having me. 1:01:47 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroThanks for listening to the 18STRONG podcast and if you found this episode helpful, don&#8217;t forget to share with your friends. And, of course, go follow us over on Instagram at 18strong. Thanks again. We&#8217;ll catch up with you next week. Straight hard, practice smart and play better golf. Transcribed by https://podium.page

Guest: Eric Schaetty (Schaetty Strength &amp; Fitness)Host: Jeff PelizzaroEpisode Number: 359Podcast: The 18STRONG PodcastPartners: Linksoul, 1stPhorm Summary Welcome to another exciting installment of the 18STRONG Podcast, where we have the pleasure of hosting our good friend Eric Schaettyy from Schaettyy Strength and Fitness. Tune in as we navigate Eric&#8217;s remarkable journey from a 12 handicap to a 4.9 handicap golfer within a year, highlighting his background in the fitness industry and his unique training approach tailored for golfers. Discover how his passion for fitness and golf influenced his professional world and led him to work with more golfers. Get ready to immerse yourself in a discussion about the intersection of golf, fitness, and sobriety. Eric shares how golf has become a therapeutic outlet for one participant who has been sober for 12 years. We also stress the power of consistency in achieving fitness goals and highlight the strong friendships formed within our community. Later, we explore the significance of strength and balance training in golf, and how these elements enhance the overall movement in the swing. Listen as we break down the benefits of walking and consistency in fitness routines, sharing personal experiences of how simple practices like walking have yielded better results than intense workouts. We share our thoughts on starting small and gradually increasing intensity, as well as the benefits of strength training for overall health and injury prevention. Finally, Eric reveals his bucket list course, Riviera, and recommends following Barbell Medicine on social media. Get inspired as Eric encourages us to start today, emphasizing the importance of seizing the moment rather than waiting for a &#8220;do-over&#8221; in life. This episode is packed with valuable insights that every golfer, fitness enthusiast, or anyone looking to improve their physical and mental well-being shouldn&#8217;t miss! Main Topics (00:03) Golf Transformation and Fitness Journey Eric Schaetty&#8217;s golf journey from 12 to 4.9 handicap, consistency in fitness and golf, adapting training for golfers, and understanding tendencies on the course. (10:50) Training and Background in Sports Equipment and athletic background shape a golfer&#8217;s swing and success, as seen through a guest&#8217;s experience with a stiffer shaft and background in hockey and martial arts. (19:38) CrossFit, Strength Training, and Fitness Goals Fitness and golf are discussed, emphasizing individual goals and incorporating weightlifting for strength and fat loss. (32:08) Balance and Strength in Golf Training Vertical jumping, lateral rotation, and balance training are crucial for golf fitness and building relationships through the sport. (37:22) The Benefits of Golf in Sobriety Golf, fitness, and sobriety intersect in our community, emphasizing consistency, strong friendships, and the power of walking for physical and mental well-being. (40:16) The Power of Consistency and Walking Nature&#8217;s benefits of walking and consistency in fitness routines, starting small and incorporating strength training for long-term health. (47:55) Start Today Fitness and golf expert Eric Schaettyy shares his journey, training program, and love for Caddyshack and recommends Barbell Medicine. Follow Eric Schaetty Instagram: @eschats82 Episode Partners: LINKSOUL:&nbsp;For your 20% discount on LINKSOUL gear, go to&nbsp;18strong.com/linksoul&nbsp;or click the logo above. 1st Phorm: Try any of the 1st Phorm products with FREE SHIPPING, go to 1stphorm.com/18strong.com (By using this link, you will be entered into our Monthly 1st Phorm Giveaway!) More Cool Stuff to Check Out: To continue the conversation and ask any questions you may have, head over to the&nbsp;18STRONG Movement group on Facebook. 18STRONG Pro Shop (Get your 18STRONG gear!) 18STRONG Resources (All of the cool stuff we recommend: products, books, golf stuff, etc &#8211; and discount codes for the 18STRONG Crew) Want the full episode transcript? (click the &#8220;+&#8221; ????????) 0:00:04 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroThe 18STRONG Podcast, episode Number 359 with Eric Schaetty from Schaetty Strength and Fitness. What&#8217;s up guys? Welcome back to the 18STRONG Podcast, where we&#8217;re here to help you build a stronger game, because we believe everyone deserves to play better, longer. This week is an exciting one for me. I have a really good friend of mine, eric Schaetty from Schaetty Strength and Fitness, on the show. Eric is one of my really good friends. We play a lot of golf together. We actually work together. He actually works outside of this facility with me, and we get to talk to Eric about his golf transformation. Not only his golf transformation, but Eric has an extensive background in the strength and fitness and conditioning world as well, and so we&#8217;re talking a lot about both his journey as a golfer and his fitness journey, but also how he has then taken that into his professional world and what he&#8217;s doing now, working with a lot more golfers compared to his initial start in the fitness industry, which really began with him working in martial arts and crossfit and a lot of traditional weightlifting. So today&#8217;s episode is great because we&#8217;re talking about not just different training styles, but we&#8217;re talking about what Eric did himself to go from a 12th handicap last year at about the same time, down to a 4.9 handicap, and it involved much less in regards to practice and technique than you would likely think. And so we dive really deep into what he did, how his workouts impacted that, but ultimately, from a golf standpoint, what he did. Then we discuss different training styles and how he&#8217;s kind of changed his tactics from his initial start to now working with golfers and how that impacts what you do yourself in the gym. And what&#8217;s really neat is that we talk about how, if you&#8217;re somebody who&#8217;s just kind of getting started again or getting back into the gym, how you&#8217;re going to benefit so much more than somebody that&#8217;s been working out for a long period of time. So if you&#8217;re nervous about doing that, we talk about why it&#8217;s so important that you just get started. And then, lastly, we talk about the importance of consistency over everything and how being consistent with the goal is naturally just going to produce the results. But oftentimes we don&#8217;t dive into being consistent. We rely more on our motivation, which can wane, and ultimately that can lead to failure in your goals, failure in your training program, failure in your golf practice. Whatever goal you have, you have to be consistent in the process to achieve the goal. So you&#8217;re going to really enjoy this episode with, as we call them, buddy E. Right after this, our partners over at Linksoul have been providing us with the best apparel for both on the course and off the course, from polos to t-shirts like the one I have on right now. Everything that they have is meant to be worn from the golf course to wherever you&#8217;re going next, whether that be casual, whether that be to the beach, there&#8217;s all different options over there. So go to 18strongcom slash Linksoul. You&#8217;ll get 20% off of anything in your cart over on Linksoul&#8217;s website. So again, 18strongcom, slash Linksoul for our favorite brand of apparel for anything on the golf course and off. Now let&#8217;s get to this week&#8217;s interview Eric Schaetty, buddy E. Welcome to the 18STRONG podcast. How are we doing? Good to be here, glad to be here, great to be here, great to finally have you. This is cool. So this is episode 356. For those of you that watched it or listened to it, we had our buddy, bobby Drummond, on in our first GoForge Yourself episode. This episode, I think, is going to be a little bit of a hybrid. You haven&#8217;t gone through the forge or anything, but I want to kind of tell your story, but your expertise is also in the fitness industry many, many years 15 plus years in the fitness industry. We work together on a daily basis. We&#8217;re running these in this podcast office Unbelievable. But you are also part of the 18STRONG crew and one of the most golf obsessed people that I&#8217;ve ever met in my life but have made a huge transformation in your golf game over the past year and then in your fitness over the past couple of decades. So we&#8217;re going to talk about all of that. So again, welcome, and I&#8217;m excited to dig in this. Finally, glad to be here. This is made it to the show. So tell the folks listening at home, the crew, a little bit, just about your golf journey just this last year, just because I think we&#8217;ll start there and then we&#8217;ll dive in everything. 0:04:45 &#8211; Eric SchaettyIt kind of started more. We was in the pit here and I was all winter banging balls in the pit, hitting, hitting, hitting, trying to shallow the club, shallow the club it&#8217;s all you hear. Now that&#8217;s the craze. I was like just trying to like make the perfect swing, record my videos over and over and over and was really trying to get after that and was really like just trying to develop a good swing, finally developed some elbow tendonitis and my elbows were bothering me. But I play hockey too. So I was thinking maybe is it from hockey, Is it from a wall to my hockey stick. I really didn&#8217;t know what was going on so I was like, all right, well, spring comes along, we&#8217;ll get out of the pit, we&#8217;ll go start playing some golf. I joined a club, pretty much playing every day I would say Almost. I was so happy. My wife can find out for that. Yeah, so can my kids. But just started going and just playing golf, got out of the pit and went and just started playing golf, finding out what my misses were, what my yardages were, and just started to kind of get around the course instead of being in a pit and not really seeing where the ball was going or anything like that. So it started out with just all right, what are your misses, what are your tendencies, what am I doing wrong? And it started from the tee and then worked my way towards the green. So it was like all right, what do I do with my drive? Started with that and then started kind of chipping away. All right, let&#8217;s get closer. What are my yardages for all my clubs carry. And then from a hundred yards in, that&#8217;s where, like right now, I&#8217;m truly trying to like the bread and butter of the game is from a hundred yards in. I think it was. It was a Gary player said he gets like a 15. Any cap led him hit a tee shot and will be a three tomorrow if he plays the rest of the shots. So kind of took that and just played all summer and went from probably a 12 last year to now about 40 at 4.9, which I&#8217;m not sure I could this morning 4.9. 0:06:57 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroSo I think you know, as an outsider kind of looking in on this, I was able to. You know we were here. We&#8217;re banging balls together and talking, swing and, and you know, doing all this in the gym here. But it feels to me like one of the turning points was you booked a lesson with our buddy, casey, who, casey Cox, has been on the show as well and I&#8217;ll let you tell the story. But it almost and kudos to Casey Casey was almost like dude, yeah, like you don&#8217;t need, you don&#8217;t need a bunch of lessons. 0:07:26 &#8211; Eric SchaettySo Casey, great, great coach, great instructor, I mean, he is literally like, he makes you feel so comfortable, Like as soon as the lesson starts you want to say a word, you just you just start hitting balls and he doesn&#8217;t. He just sits there, it&#8217;s got his thing going and got you all hooked up. He&#8217;s banging balls, banging balls. I&#8217;m hitting balls and he, all of a sudden he goes hold on. He&#8217;s like why, why are you here? He&#8217;s like what, what are you doing? He goes you hit the ball. As far as I do, your path looks fine. There&#8217;s something like crazy going on. He&#8217;s like what are you here? So, and that&#8217;s why I was like well, listen, my driver distance does not correlate to my irons. I&#8217;m hitting my iron. You know my. You know seven iron, 165 carry. Why am I not hitting my driver 275 yards? I see guys hitting 165 for their seven iron. They&#8217;re blasting their driver and I&#8217;m only carrying mine 225 yards. So he&#8217;s like all right, we&#8217;ll get your driver out. So we hit a few. He&#8217;s like all right, all right. He&#8217;s like he grabs the club. He goes give me that. Looks at it for a second. He&#8217;s like you&#8217;re playing with an old man shaft. He&#8217;s like and this head is doing you no justice. He&#8217;s like you need to get a different driver shaft, you need a different head and I think that&#8217;ll help your driver. So it was like okay. So then Andrew, our other friend, he he&#8217;s like well, I got an extra driver. If you want to buy it off me, it&#8217;s stiff shaft title list. You want to give it a try? And then, kind of after that, I was like all she wrote. Yeah, I was all she wrote. So the driver got dialed in and then it was like let&#8217;s just take those next steps. 0:09:04 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroSo, for those of you that aren&#8217;t watching, and even those of you that are watching, give me, give me the dimensions. How tall, how heavy are you? 0:09:13 &#8211; Eric SchaettyI am about 55 and a half and 135 hundred and 40 pounds on a good day, and that&#8217;s on a good day and in our group so we you know mandatory golf Friday. 0:09:24 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroWe&#8217;ve had our trips down in Nashville. We play with a wide array of guys, a lot of different levels of golf, and I mean I&#8217;d say you&#8217;re in the top three or four guys as far as distances, and that includes, you know, a couple former professional guys that that we play with. Yeah, so did you see, and I&#8217;m one of the reasons that I love having you on here is because you&#8217;ve done what so many of the listeners and all of us have really want to do. Right, like we all say, we want to get faster, we all say we want to do all these things, but ultimately we want to score better, we want to play better, and we want to do that having fun with the game too, and go from a 12 down to below a five handicap, right. So over the course of this last year, when you first switched out that driver I know you immediately liked it Did you see, over the course of a year, just your distance just kind of slowly get longer and longer because you got more comfortable? Was it a confidence thing in your swing? What was the change there? 0:10:17 &#8211; Eric SchaettyIt was, it was really honestly, it was a confidence. And then the feel, like the feel of the club and knowing that like if I transfer my weight, this club is not going to be whipping around and doing crazy things, and because I could feel with my other club like I would have it in my backswing and I would go to transition and it would literally feel like I had a noodle in my hands. I just did. I was yeah, I did and I just had no confidence to transfer and get to my left side and get turned over and transfer all that weight. I was just so just scared to do it. So once I got that stiffer shaft the better than different driver it was like all right, just swing, just swing. You know that you can swing fast enough, just swing the club. So there&#8217;s more or less like all right, you got the right equipment. That&#8217;s partially sometimes issues. I was like you just don&#8217;t have the right equipment. Yes, I had no idea that I was playing with the wrong equipment. So I think it was more confidence and knowing that my body can just go and you don&#8217;t really have to think about it. 0:11:17 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroYeah. So I want to talk a little bit about your background in sports because, you know, obviously training is what you do on a daily basis. I see what you do in the gym for yourself, I see what you do with your clientele and you start even working with a lot more golfers too. So I want to kind of talk about a little the transition of maybe how you are training them a little differently than some of the other folks you have in the past. But your background, you know, is in hockey, some martial arts, and when I watch you swing a golf club it&#8217;s a super smooth, almost feels a little effortless kind of swing. It doesn&#8217;t look like you&#8217;re trying to swing out of your shoes. But I mean your smash factor has to be so good because of the distance and we were talking the other day swing speed wise. 0:12:03 &#8211; Eric SchaettyI mean it&#8217;s not crazy speed either, right, no, no, what your speed is Go no off the top of my head, but I would say probably 105 somewhere in there, 105, 110. Yeah, you know I&#8217;m worried if you&#8217;re really getting after probably yeah, nothing wild, yeah, and I&#8217;m not swinging like a Torpro or anything wild like that, but yeah, it&#8217;s probably around 105 to 110. 0:12:26 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroSo your background in those sports and I&#8217;m really curious to. We&#8217;ve talked a lot about hockey players on here but I&#8217;m even curious about, like, the Muay Thai and kickboxing and like I would imagine that that that quick hips, you know hip driven stuff, that makes a big difference. 0:12:42 &#8211; Eric SchaettyI was thinking about that and I was like you know, the crazy thing is that you talk about the hockey and that I&#8217;m a left handed hockey player. The only thing I do, left handed, as I shoot a hockey stick the opposite direction that I swing a golf club. So it&#8217;s like that. You know people would think, oh, I will, you do. You&#8217;re swinging the opposite direction of your golf club. So I was like you know what? What is it that made my golf swing so much different than any anybody else&#8217;s or the guys would play with? And then I thought about it. There are so many leg kicks that I have thrown, or punches that where you have to rotating your hips and it&#8217;s fast, it&#8217;s over and over and over and over. Throwing leg kicks over and over and over. And I think it has a lot to do with throwing the leg kicks, throwing the punches that you&#8217;re, you&#8217;re jittering that hip, that torque and all of that speed and through your hips and through your legs. 0:13:39 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroYeah, I would imagine that really never really thought about it this way. But of all sports, something like that where you&#8217;re striking on a continuous basis, you know, when you&#8217;re you&#8217;re training, you might not be going boom, boom, boom, you know, but you&#8217;re, you&#8217;re striking, relax striking. That&#8217;s a little bit more like the golf swing compared to almost any other sport In movie tie. 0:14:02 &#8211; Eric SchaettyThey actually like you&#8217;re not. It&#8217;s not like kickboxing, and in that kickboxing you know it&#8217;s a lot of volume throw kicks and you want to throw them hard. In movie tie you are hitting to hurt. Like you throw a leg kick, you&#8217;re trying to chop their leg down, like that is literally what you&#8217;re trying to do. You&#8217;re trying to kick their leg as hard as you possibly can. So I think there&#8217;s a lot of that like transfer. It&#8217;s like, well, as soon as you get that pattern laid down, it is almost effortless. When you throw a leg kick it&#8217;s, you don&#8217;t even think about it. I mean, there&#8217;s some great MMA fighters. There was an interview I saw the other day. It was a Pereira, this guy who just fought and he was messing around Daniel Cormier and he goes all right and Cormier goes. He was Brazilian guy goes, throw 30%, 30% and he literally just barely tapped him and it looked like Cormier was going to fall over. And so it is. There is that transfer, but it&#8217;s a forceful power transfer? 0:14:56 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroDo you think that that plays into? You know, talking about kids growing up and playing and we talk about speed all the time now, but kind of talking about the way that Jack Nicholas talked about this getting kids to just swing as fast as they can in order to gain speed early, because that that, Like you said, the pattern gets ingrained, the muscle memory gets ingrained. 0:15:19 &#8211; Eric SchaettyYeah, absolutely, and it&#8217;s you need to. When you&#8217;re young, when you&#8217;re a kid, there is no fear, and when we get older, it&#8217;s like I don&#8217;t know what&#8217;s going to happen in my back. I&#8217;m like I&#8217;m throwing my shoulder out and you know like you&#8217;re so worried about how hard you&#8217;re going to swing because you might hurt yourself. So I think a lot of it when you&#8217;re a kid, you know just as well as I do, like our kids are fearless. They do not, they will do anything. So I think, as when you&#8217;re really young and you get them into something, just let them start to say sweet spashes, you can&#8217;t go ahead. I mean because the odds of them getting hurt, I mean, are fairly low. We just swing your golf club, right? 0:15:54 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroAnd, I think, repercussion wise, on the golf course they don&#8217;t care as much either. Right? So they&#8217;re losing dad&#8217;s golf balls, they&#8217;re not losing their own golf, they&#8217;re not typing their gin hand out. Yeah, so let&#8217;s talk a little bit about your world of fitness. What? What got you really involved in the training side of things? When did you start with the martial arts? Did you do that as a little kid or was that something? No? 0:16:17 &#8211; Eric SchaettySo growing up it was just hockey. I mean I did you know COIC, soccer and all that growing up, but it was mainly hockey, did a little bit of D2 club hockey in college Really was just hockey I did. I really didn&#8217;t lift weights in high school. We didn&#8217;t have like a like you know, these kids nowadays you have like an after school training program. You&#8217;re going oh, why is conditioning Isn&#8217;t that? We had none of that. I mean, it was basically you were on the ice and that was it. I didn&#8217;t touch weights. I mean. Besides, you know curls in your basement, you know, get started under the bar. Yeah, the, the, the sit around, double. It&#8217;s like it really was just that. And then basically it was in my around 2007, when I was out of college 2008, a friend of mine who worked in the bar industry with me. He was a trainer at club fitness and the old Rock Hill location, which is like a gymnastics place now, and I was just one in there one day and he kind of showed me a few things and I was like I just want to start lifting weights I&#8217;m not trying to and it was kind of the time I was getting into the martial arts a little bit and I was just like I need to learn how to lift weights, can you help me? And he helped me a little bit and through the course of like that year, I like just transformed myself. I transformed my body. Um, it was kind of like wow, this is, this is cool. Like I feel great, Like I love the way I feel, I love what I&#8217;m doing for myself, like I was like this is really uplifting. And then me, at the time I was working in bars, I was like so that same guy. I went to him one day. I was like, hey, how, how do we get a job doing this? Like I love the way I&#8217;m done this for other people. Where do I start? Like. And he was like all right, well, we&#8217;ll get you signed up or whatever. And we, you know, you got to get this certification or that certification. So I went and got to do NASM and a little trial period. But it was literally I was basically walking in the door talking to an old friend and just kind of like you know, dove in head first, yeah. 0:18:09 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroAnd you I mean you made a pretty significant transformation in your body, in your fitness, your lifestyle, you know so. You&#8217;ve done all of that. What was your journey then into the training side? I know you worked in CrossFit. Do you weight lift? You know weight lifting certifications. What was the journey then, kind of you know, up until where we are now? 0:18:29 &#8211; Eric SchaettyYeah. So when I was a little lot younger I mean, I was not even like towards the beginning of my training side, my training career I was still like even when I was doing martial arts, like some of that, I would go out after practice and I was still smoking cigarettes. I was like I&#8217;m drinking beers, like I was not the fast food, just not the bastion of health. So once I got into the training side of it, I&#8217;m like all right, this doesn&#8217;t correlate with my image. I can&#8217;t walk in smelling like cigarettes, I can&#8217;t you know be eating fast food and whatnot. And it was like, all right, well, the Muay Thai, that training was over and I was like I need something more competitive. Like I&#8217;m really ultra competitive, I&#8217;m over competitive. So I&#8217;m like what can I do? And that&#8217;s when I found CrossFit a buddy of mine, it was the old CrossFit St Louis when I was over in a hand-lead industrial. It was like a swag when they say a box. Yeah, it was literally. It was a pull-up bar, some weights and that was it right. So I got into that. That&#8217;s super competitive. With it, you know, I got my first muscle of them. I was after that like it kind of took off and that was like all right, I really love this. I did CrossFit for a long time. I did CrossFit for five or six years something like that you ever take and I got ultra obsessed, started coaching it like was studying USA weightlifting certifications and just like was really like just engulfed in CrossFit. And I will say, like CrossFit, that&#8217;s the one thing CrossFit has done is A, is or two things actually. Community, yeah, totally Like you cannot put their community up against well, maybe ours, but you can&#8217;t really put it up against any other like community out there. Like they are so close, they&#8217;re so tight. And two, what it&#8217;s done for just fitness and weightlifting in general. You can go drive down the street now and buy barbells, yeah, and buy weights and buy plates. Without CrossFit, none of that is possible. You wouldn&#8217;t have show me weights. You wouldn&#8217;t have a lot of these different places where, like, you can just walk down the street and like I&#8217;m going to go squat today and I&#8217;m going to go drop in while I&#8217;m out of town. I&#8217;m done that. I&#8217;m going to Florida and be like, hey, do you guys mind if I just, you know, back over in the corner and squat. So you know, got to CrossFit, you know, got into these different certifications and just like, basically the CrossFit helped me a lot with the CrossFit, with like learning all the basic foundational lifts and all that, and then some of the other certifications are great, but it&#8217;s the experience I&#8217;ve acquired over the 15 years and it&#8217;s like I&#8217;ve just learned so much over the past 15 years as far as just in the gym experience and then just kind of like all right, what actually does work? What actually you know what anecdotal stuff actually works? So it really wasn&#8217;t. Oh well, you know I&#8217;m done with CrossFit. It was more like all right, let&#8217;s dive into the strength side of this a little bit more. And that&#8217;s when I kind of got into the strength side of it. That&#8217;s where I&#8217;ve been at kind of ever since, you know strength side and then kind of getting away from the hard cardio and diving back into the golf world. 0:21:39 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroYeah. So you and I have been working together on a year and a half year, something over two years, over two years now. So one of the things that I noticed because we didn&#8217;t know each other at all before then was just the way that you train with your clients. You know a lot of barbell stuff, a lot of strength related stuff and, obviously, small gym. We listen to each other&#8217;s conversations, how we talk to our clients, and I really like the way that you explain to your clients. You know why you&#8217;re doing this. You&#8217;re really big on teaching them accountability, on learning their lifts themselves and being able to do this stuff on their own right, and so I want to kind of go into some tactics on different goals that I think a lot of the crew has, because with golf it&#8217;s different than any other sport, because we could have somebody listen to the show that&#8217;s an 18 year old male or female, we could have somebody that&#8217;s a 75 year old male or female, and all of them want to get better at golf and if they&#8217;re listening to this show, they want to figure out what&#8217;s the right thing for them to do body wise, fitness wise. But, as I know that you have told so many of your clients, you have to really focus in on. What&#8217;s the main thing that you want to focus on, right? Is it your strength? Is it your fat boss? Is it you want to just move better, to swing the golf club better? Is it you want a better golf swing? All of those different pieces are different. What would you say are some of them? And we&#8217;ll just kind of talk big rock things regarding the differences between if you want to get strong, if you want to lose some weight, and maybe the third one, if you want to just get moving better. What are some of the things that you would say like, hey, for strength, you got to do this, fat loss, you got to do this. There&#8217;s a lot of variables, yeah, yeah. 0:23:27 &#8211; Eric SchaettyThe majority of people, though I think that a lot of times a everybody is terrified to a lift weights, to go into a gym to do any of that stuff. So, first off, that you know, reassuring people that the rate of injury for weightlifting is that of non contact sports you can get hurt just as much swimming as you can, lifting weight and like. So that&#8217;s the first thing I would say to people is, like, listen, you&#8217;re not going to get hurt doing this, Just commit to it. And then most of the people that are listening are probably I&#8217;m just assuming most are not lifting weights yet, right? So most of them are going to get the best of both worlds You&#8217;re going to get stronger and you&#8217;re going to build muscle at the same time. Right? You don&#8217;t need, you, don&#8217;t? You don&#8217;t have to pick and choose which one you want to do, Because once you get more trained as you well know, is that you have to pick one another. All right, am I going to get stronger or am I going to build muscle? That&#8217;s your point. So I would say, for the strength side of it is that I would start with just basic things as far as just picking something up off the ground, some type of hip hinge, some type of squatting and it doesn&#8217;t even have to be squatting If you would rather do a leg press because you feel more comfortable doing a leg press start with that for strength. The thing is is that strength? The definition of strength would be for your bodies to contract against an outside resistance. It doesn&#8217;t matter what it is to start, just put something in your hands, get a bar on your back if you want, but it doesn&#8217;t have to be anything like you see on TV or you hear about. So, as far as strength goes, just start doing something that&#8217;s going to put your body against an outside resistance. 0:25:12 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroWhat are a couple of things you mentioned leg press or squatting and hinging. I mean, are those the big ones for you? 0:25:19 &#8211; Eric SchaettyYeah, most of my training and the most of the way I do train people, is that there&#8217;s always the three main lifts. You&#8217;re going to do something like a hip hinge. You&#8217;ll do something about squatting, whether it&#8217;s split squat or something like that and then you&#8217;ll do something like a horizontal or vertical pressing based on their limitations. A lot of people struggle with overhead pressing or an overhead press, so you can always modify those things, but you just start with those things foundationally and then find out what drives a person, because the results, the success of a program, is 100% adherence. If you&#8217;re not going to adhere to the program, you&#8217;re not going to have success. So, find something that you want to do. If somebody says to me hey, eric, yeah, squatting is cool and all, but I want huge arms, cool, I&#8217;m going to sprinkle on some arm stuff. Or you can sprinkle them for yourself, if you wanted to sprinkle on some arm stuff, or you want to do all of my back to get bigger, and you can do that. You know, sprinkle on things that you enjoy, because if you don&#8217;t enjoy those things, you&#8217;re not going to adhere to it. You&#8217;re not going to adhere to it. Fat loss Fat loss is dependent on, you know, changing your metabolism right, the way you change your metabolism change your body composition. If you build muscle, you&#8217;re going to change your body composition. So, just starting out with just some strength training builds muscle, which changes your metabolism, and you&#8217;re already ahead of the curve because you&#8217;ve already killed two birds with one stone. You&#8217;ve built some muscle. Now you&#8217;ve changed your metabolism. Well, guess what? If you&#8217;re changing nothing else, you&#8217;re going to change how you look, yeah, and you&#8217;re going to burn some fat, yeah. 0:26:59 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroAnd the mean time, more muscle means more, more burning of calories, which means, you know, a bit in calorie deficit, or you know. And then obviously the there&#8217;s the food component to to the fat loss, right, but Jeff is, it is a is a chat that we have in this gym many, many times and ultimately, you know, once you get past that the initial phase where just strength training is is doing the trick, then you have to start to dial that in. 0:27:26 &#8211; Eric SchaettyYeah, yeah, I think a lot of times people get very, I think, over the, you know, I would say, the past few decades there&#8217;s a lot of like earmongering of you can&#8217;t have this, or you can&#8217;t have that, this diet&#8217;s the best, or this diet&#8217;s the best or no, no, no, don&#8217;t touch that. Or you know, and people just like, literally, if you went through all the things people tell you you can&#8217;t have, you would almost have an empty plate. If you like, oh, there&#8217;s pesticides on those leaves. Or don&#8217;t drink that soda because that has aspartame, or, like you would literally be able to eat that tomato because it&#8217;s got yeah you&#8217;d be drinking water and that is it. So the nutrition side of it would be pick something that you want to do, because all diets have one common factor and that&#8217;s a caloric deficit Yep. So if you want to do intermittent fasting, cool. If you want to do the keto diet, cool. If you want to do high carb, low fat, that&#8217;s fine as well. Just start picking one thing and work on that. I&#8217;m going to eat better for breakfast, I&#8217;m going to wake up every day and I&#8217;m going to have enough protein to stimulate muscle protein synthesis, which is the process of building muscle. So start with that and then just start small goals and just work your way up the ladder instead of like all right, here we go. First of the year, I&#8217;m doing it at all Right, and before you know it, like two weeks down the road, you&#8217;re like all right, that didn&#8217;t go too well, what am I supposed to do next? So I think it&#8217;s nutrition is a lot about small goals. Work on one thing at a time after you have the you know, the strength side dialed in and just little building blocks along the way. 0:29:00 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroI want to take just a second to thank our new partner, which I&#8217;m really excited to announce is 1st Phorm. 1st Phorm is a company that is here in St Louis, based in St Louis. It&#8217;s a nutritional company that is doing incredible things in the world of nutrition and one of the reasons that we decided to partner with 1st Phorm is obviously we&#8217;re very impressed with their dedication to their products and the quality of their products. But really it&#8217;s the dedication to them, them helping their customers get real results, aside from just the products. We got a chance to go and actually visit the facility again here in St Louis and really walk the halls of the corporate offices. But we got to see the manufacturing plan or the warehouse. And it&#8217;s not just a place where they&#8217;re packaging supplements and shipping them out. It&#8217;s a culture, it&#8217;s a community and you can see that amongst the employees. You can see that their culture and their core values that are not just pieces of art on their wall. They&#8217;re actually living them there and they&#8217;re helping to expand those into the community and really that&#8217;s why we partner with 1st Phorm. Obviously, their products are incredible. Otherwise we wouldn&#8217;t suggest them either. We use them on a regular basis. So you&#8217;re going to be hearing a lot more about their products and what they can do for your fitness, what they can do for your golf game the protein powders, the multivitamins, the protein sticks, the hydration packets All of those products we&#8217;re going to highlight in future episodes. But we just wanted to really celebrate our new partnership with 1st Phorm. Bring your other website, 1stphorm.com/18strong, forward slash 18STRONG and we&#8217;re going to be doing a giveaway every single month with anybody that buys through that link. So go to 1stphorm.com/18strong that&#8217;s P-H-O-R-Mcom. Forward slash 18STRONG. That&#8217;ll take you directly to their website and you can check their whole suite of products, including some of their fitness apparel and anything that is purchased over there. You&#8217;re going to be enrolled into our list for our giveaway. I know that you just recently have started working with a lot more golfers, a lot of people from your club, which is really cool. When you&#8217;re now taking a lot of your traditional training style and you&#8217;ve been doing this for yourself too, working in some things for your own golf game. Have you changed anything specifically in the way that you&#8217;re training them or in the way that you&#8217;re training also for the golf purposes? 0:31:24 &#8211; Eric SchaettyYes. So as far as the training goes, so foundationally and I&#8217;ve noticed this is that strength is a vital component of the golf swing in you and it doesn&#8217;t have to be the sense that people think they need a strong squat, they need to put 315 on the bar and be squatting 315 for multiple reps. No, you don&#8217;t. If you come in and say, alright, I was squatting my body weight three months ago, now I&#8217;m squatting a kettlebell that weighs 53 pounds, guess what you&#8217;ve gotten strong. Yes, and that is going to correlate over to Training. So I don&#8217;t necessarily have to do barbells with them, I don&#8217;t. I just try to get them to do some type of squat, hinge press. We&#8217;re just gonna get them a little bit stronger and then we&#8217;re throwing in. I&#8217;m trying to and I&#8217;m doing a little more research with this is that you see a lot of correlation to Vertical jumping, height, how high somebody can jump, or the vertical force and a golf swing. You also see a lot of lateral rotation, static positions, things like that. So I do like to sprinkle in some lateral rotation stuff. I like to focus on, you know, slamming whether it&#8217;s side slam, whether it&#8217;s an overhead slam, rotations, front leg, and then the really the big thing that I am new to, especially with my clients that I&#8217;ve taken from the club, is balance. A lot of them just don&#8217;t Understand how to transfer from the right side to the left side or a left and a golf, yet left to right. Is that a lot more balanced stuff? Transferring one leg, being on one leg, focusing on finding your balance in your feet and then being able to transfer from one side of the other so it&#8217;s still the foundations of strength. But then you&#8217;re throwing in a little snippets of like alright, we&#8217;re on balance today and you we&#8217;re gonna work on your. You know your vertical, your vertical jump or and when I say vertical Jump it doesn&#8217;t mean that I know how I&#8217;m doing like crazy box jump, right, I think. But just get them to a move faster and Be get them to move a little more powerfully, yep, so I think I&#8217;ve incorporated a lot more of that into the golfer side of it. Worse, most of my other clients were really not like I&#8217;m not gonna do a lot of that stuff with right, a little more traditional, with strength stuff. 0:33:38 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroYeah, what I found with the you know, the balance stuff. I mean initially, when somebody says balance, they think, oh, standing on one leg, those. But it&#8217;s more than that. And I find that a lot of golfers feel like they&#8217;re not flexible enough to get into whatever position. But a lot of times it&#8217;s it&#8217;s more their balance, like they just don&#8217;t know how to hold a position or the body hasn&#8217;t been there. And so once you start to put them in these different situations when you&#8217;ve got them in a split stance and then they&#8217;re throwing a ball or they&#8217;re rotating with a cable, they&#8217;re like, oh, they&#8217;re a little unsteady. But as they do that week after week, then it&#8217;s like, oh, I can actually move better through my motion. It&#8217;s not because you do a bunch of stretches and you do. You know a lot of these long duration holds where or you&#8217;re working on getting them all the way into the backswing or position holds. It&#8217;s no, you&#8217;re just more balanced and you&#8217;re comfortable and you&#8217;re understanding what your body needs to do in a swing. 0:34:27 &#8211; Eric SchaettyYeah, and that was another, as he was Lee Trevino. Remember watching the video about having. He said you could take you know he lives at the driving range and looked at the range. He said take all these golfers, I could work on their swing right now, we could do all these things to it. He goes, they&#8217;re gonna show back up tomorrow and they&#8217;re gonna do the same thing they were doing before I said anything. So a lot of these people like I&#8217;m not, I&#8217;m not trying to change your swing, I&#8217;m just trying to get them to understand. Like, listen, when you get here, this is when this goes. Like I had said something to John sharing the other day. I was like you do you understand? Like, before you start the downswing, your body&#8217;s actually moving in the opposite direction. And they&#8217;re like what, wait a minute, with what do you mean? Like your body&#8217;s moving in two different directions at one point and died. So it&#8217;s things like that, like you said, getting to understand that your body&#8217;s gonna be moving in two different directions and you&#8217;re gonna have to find that balance in between those two. 0:35:17 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroYeah, this is mentioned. John and Sharon. It&#8217;s kind of cool to see that you have people from your club. You mentioned it. Randy is yeah, randy Ray, one of the first clients that came over from the club. Tell the story. Oh yeah, randy&#8217;s all the client. 0:35:32 &#8211; Eric SchaettySo I ended up in the club championship this year first round. I just got back from Florida. The first round went well. You know, knock the guy out in the 19th hole in the first round. So the second round had a play Randy. Nobody really knew it. It&#8217;s not like we had him bar fight. 0:35:48 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroWhat&#8217;s about the guy on the night? 0:35:51 &#8211; Eric SchaettyThe guy out. Yeah, you know I got a little iffy out there, but uh, but yeah. So I beat Tony in the first round. So I had Randy. Nobody knew anything about Randy either. So you know, these guys like, oh my god, randy&#8217;s such a nice guy, he&#8217;s such a cool guy, you&#8217;re gonna love it, like great. So I know, plan Randy. Randy goes on a heater last four holes, shoots three under on the last four holes, comebacks, beats me. So they&#8217;re walking up back to the cars. He&#8217;s like, oh so your trainer, huh, he&#8217;s, you know, kind of shakes his head. He&#8217;s like well, have to get your number. He&#8217;s like I might have to come see you. So he&#8217;s like, after I get back for my trip, give me a call. So I texted him and next thing, you know, here I have a client now. So it was like I I lost the match but I gained a client. I did, I gained a friendship. You know we played, you know, random golf together. Now like we&#8217;re friends now. So it&#8217;s like that Bridging the, the golf was kind of like the entry into, like this friendship and the relationship and like I see a lot of it Like with our crew, is that it&#8217;s. It&#8217;s more than like CrossFit. When I left CrossFit and went home, that was kind of it right, like, yeah, you spent an hour with them, now was a. You went home, you know some people you got close with, but a lot of these guys like you&#8217;re spending four hours Together rent just talking about whatever, shooting the crap you know, like whatever you&#8217;re doing and it&#8217;s I think the community in golf is so it&#8217;s it&#8217;s it&#8217;s way different than anything I&#8217;ve ever like through myself. That I think it&#8217;s really opened my eyes, like it you can do, and especially with my sobriety I don&#8217;t think we&#8217;ve talked about that very much. Is that especially like yeah, I&#8217;m like 11 years, that well, 12 years, 12 years sober is that I Can go out with people that are drinking, that are on the golf course and Still have a good time and that even like on my own, it&#8217;s therapeutic for me to go play 18 holes, walk 18 holes by myself, clear my head, even if I have a bad day. It is literally like the most therapeutic thing I think I&#8217;ve ever done for my sobriety. That&#8217;s awesome. 0:38:00 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroAnd I think that that&#8217;s what&#8217;s so cool about you know the community that we&#8217;re building here. You know you and I and the gym and Dave here at Empire Fitness Academy but 18STRONG just in general in our mandatory golf Friday. It&#8217;s like it&#8217;s taking a little bit of that that CrossFit feel. You know some of the workout stuff that we do, but then the golf stuff. I mean so many friendships have developed outside of just you know, mandatory golf Friday start out with a lot of Myself, ryan and different people that we knew that came and played with us right. And now it&#8217;s it&#8217;s cool to see like guys in our group, like you and Bobby and Brian going and playing in these tournaments and you know getting together outside of any kind of affiliated events and it&#8217;s just so neat to see it all come together and everybody you know enjoying and I gotta give I chill it&#8217;s talking about. Yeah, like it&#8217;s so cool. I had some of the best friendships that I think a lot of us have had in recent years because you know you can, you could talk about a lot of stuff on the golf course or you can learn nothing about the guy that you&#8217;re playing with right, like, like. 0:38:58 &#8211; Eric SchaettyI don&#8217;t know me. You&#8217;re like you guys said talk about that divorce. Oh and it&#8217;s all. How many count? 0:39:02 &#8211; Jeff Pelizzarodoes he have? I don&#8217;t know idea, but he hit a great three wood, yeah, you know, in the dark, oh, so kind of. The last thing I want to talk about before we close up with our last questions is and I think this is one of the biggest things that I hear you discuss with your clients and is probably the most important You&#8217;ve kind of alluded to it already is the consistency factor, and I&#8217;ve heard you say over and over and over again to your clients the consistency comes before the motivation, right? So I want you to just kind of explain that a little bit and what that means to you and how it&#8217;s helped you, but how it&#8217;s also helping anybody out there. 0:39:36 &#8211; Eric SchaettyThe big thing that I had heard that quote somewhere recently, but it was for me. It happened before that. It was I was killing myself with cardio. I was rowing for an hour and a half. I was waking up at two o&#8217;clock in the morning, rowing for an hour and a half, then going to my job at five am, working all day, and then I would come home and like I guess I&#8217;ll do CrossFit, I guess I&#8217;ll live some way to take a nap. And I&#8217;m like I was a year we&#8217;re talking about the walking or something happened. And I was like you know what, let, maybe it worked. Yeah, might have been on the forge, yeah, I don&#8217;t know what it was. And I was like you know what? You always see these bodybuilders like walking. And then a friend of mine, jordan Fagan, mom barbell medicine guy, he had always talked about walking. How it&#8217;s like, yay, the key to fat loss is walking. I&#8217;m like this can&#8217;t be right. And I listened to this guy and I was like, all right, well, let&#8217;s give it a try. So I scrapped all that and I&#8217;m like, all right, I&#8217;m just gonna walk for 40 minutes every morning, wake up, no matter what rain or shine. I&#8217;m walking for 40 minutes. I walked for 40 minutes and like three months I had lost like 10 pounds and I was like, wait a minute, this is weird. Like I&#8217;m in better shape, I look better and feel better than I did when I was killing myself with this hour and a half of rowing three or four days a week. And it&#8217;s like wait a minute, like what am I? I&#8217;m walking every day, though Now I&#8217;m doing seven days of 40 minutes, plus, when I&#8217;m done working out or working, I&#8217;m like all right, I&#8217;m gonna be the kids, we&#8217;re gonna go play, we&#8217;re gonna go play golf, we&#8217;re gonna go do this. And all of a sudden it&#8217;s like wait a minute, like I&#8217;m more active, I feel better. Like walking is the secret because you can do it over a long period of time with no repercussions. I&#8217;ll be if you can. Like there might be some, well, some limitation, do the elliptical or whatever. But it&#8217;s all of a sudden, this consistency was like wait a minute, this is really working. And then you get motivated. Nobody walks into the gym. It&#8217;s like, yeah, I&#8217;m gonna do this for three months straight and it&#8217;s gonna be awesome. Like most people walk in like the second or third time, like I&#8217;m gonna be so sore, this is gonna hurt. Oh man, like I know it&#8217;s time for this. Yeah, like, what am I doing? And like it&#8217;s like just keep coming back, just keep doing it, just keep doing it and the consistency comes and then, before you know it, like you get your results and then you get motivated. Then the train&#8217;s on the tracks, it&#8217;s heading downhill and you&#8217;re like all right, what&#8217;s next? Like put a bar on my back right, Put a bar in my hand. Let&#8217;s do something crazy, like right. So I think the consistency people don&#8217;t understand it&#8217;s like you will get consistent, then you will get motivated. You know, just go to the gym to start going. Whether you want to or not, I promise you in a month you will change. 0:42:21 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroAnd it works for everything too right. So it works for strengthening, it works for walking, it works for nutrition. Not trying to do it all at once, because you know that that&#8217;s just gonna fail in a week. Even if you&#8217;re the most you know motivated person initially, you go through a week of trying to do everything every single day. It just it fades, the life gets in the way. But that&#8217;s what we&#8217;ve noticed with the Forge is we don&#8217;t tell people what to do when they work out, we don&#8217;t tell people what diet they need to choose. But you have to do it for 40 days straight and it&#8217;s like just trust the process, pick these couple of simple things. Or, if you&#8217;re one of you, it&#8217;s stronger. Okay, I&#8217;m gonna go to the gym two times a week and I&#8217;m gonna lift something kind of heavy right and do that for two times a week for 52 weeks and you&#8217;re gonna see a totally different person. 0:43:09 &#8211; Eric SchaettyAnd there&#8217;s I mean there&#8217;s research and anecdotal evidence and personal experience Like that produces results two days a week or what you will see results from two. You don&#8217;t have to go to the gym every day. Just don&#8217;t do a full body workout twice a week. You will get results and there&#8217;s evidence to prove it. There&#8217;s anecdotal stuff, there&#8217;s clients that we&#8217;ve had or you don&#8217;t think the proof is in the pudding. You don&#8217;t need to go every day. It doesn&#8217;t need to be as hard as people kind of make it sound. 0:43:38 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroAnd, as you said earlier, if you&#8217;re somebody that hasn&#8217;t done that a long time, you&#8217;re a little nervous about going or you&#8217;re just kind of dreading getting that ball rolling. The cool thing is like you&#8217;re the person that&#8217;s gonna get the most out of it initially. If you&#8217;re somebody that has been training for a while, it&#8217;s harder to dial those results in. But if you are kind of starting fresh, simple little things are gonna do a lot. 0:44:02 &#8211; Eric SchaettyYeah, I mean, even like a couple hours a week, you&#8217;re gonna transform your body, you&#8217;re gonna do things and feel things, and I think that&#8217;s the other big thing is, like, most of the people that come in and like I think, like our crew, it&#8217;s like, yeah, they wanna hit the ball further, but they don&#8217;t want their back to hurt, they don&#8217;t want their knees to hurt oh man, I&#8217;m sick of my shoulder hurt and my back hurt. It&#8217;s like just do these fundamental things. I mean your back will start to feel better, your knees will feel better, you&#8217;ll walk nine, 18 holes and be like I feel pretty good, yeah, do it again. Right, like so. I think that&#8217;s the other side of it with the strength training is that there&#8217;s other benefits to it besides just hitting ball farther or getting stronger. Like there&#8217;s lifelong things that you can acquire down the road. 0:44:47 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroThe most of the people, I think, that are in our crew listening, that are in our local crew playing, playing men&#8217;s tour golf Friday, probably the 35, 40 plus, mostly male, right, like the guys that we play with and, to your point, like it, it&#8217;s not all about golf, and 18STRONG has really never been about just lowering handicaps, right, it&#8217;s about so much more, especially with my background in PT and injury and just moving better. But tell me if you see the same thing. I mean we&#8217;re now inner 40s, I&#8217;m 45, you&#8217;re 41. Good to be foreign too. So like we have a lot of friends now that are kind of getting to that point where they&#8217;re well-established in their careers. They have kids that maybe are, you know, in late grade school, high school, some college, but they&#8217;ve been maybe at a desk for a long period of time. They kind of I feel like we get into this place, especially as guys, where you get into your career, you&#8217;re focusing on your family, you&#8217;re focusing on doing all the other things and you kind of let your taking care of yourself go a little bit. Have you found that that&#8217;s a big part of the golf community that you&#8217;ve seen and talked to work with? 0:46:00 &#8211; Eric SchaettyYeah, a lot of the times, and I mean even like my brother I mean my brother&#8217;s a little bit younger than me, it&#8217;s the same thing Like he&#8217;s very busy with his work life and you know, it&#8217;s like it&#8217;s like he&#8217;s a graser, really good golfer, very good golfer, but it&#8217;s like he prioritizes family and everything else over other things like that right, taking care of himself, I mean in fine shape. But I just see like little examples of like, like you said, like people letting you know their other, you know the rest of their life kind of get pushed aside or family or for whatever reason, work or whatever it is. But I mean especially my advice to them just get up and walk every morning. Yeah, just start with 15. Starts walking. Just get up and be like I&#8217;m gonna go walk every morning 15 minutes, that&#8217;s all. Just start with that For you. I like, oh, I&#8217;m gonna do 20 minutes, I might do 30 minutes, because even walking is going to build the muscles in your legs. You&#8217;re gonna get muscle strength just from walking. So even like that, just starting with that, you know, when you get through a little, five pounds. 0:47:08 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroTell me how to go back, right, Like, just start to get a little bit of resistance, Pretty much some resistance, Exactly. I have a quick story before we jump in this last question. All right, these last questions. I&#8217;ve got one of my clients, Greg, who you probably know, but I&#8217;ll never forget. Like we met and started working with each other I don&#8217;t know six, seven years ago or so, and he is now, I think, 75, but was just kind of retiring, play, wanted to start playing a lot of golf. He&#8217;s a pretty decent golfer, but he said to me at one point, after we&#8217;d been working together for like six months, like man, I would give you a million dollars if you could put me in a time machine and we could have met 20 years ago. You know, like because of he just let his body get to that point and now he&#8217;s 67 years old or 68 years old, and it&#8217;s like you can&#8217;t get it back. So I guess this is my PSA to all you guys and guys out there like it&#8217;s never too late to start, but start today, right, and that&#8217;s kind of our whole mantra of no mulligans is like hey, you don&#8217;t get a mulligan for life, right, Like you don&#8217;t get to do this over. Yeah, you&#8217;re gonna go up and down with your fitness, but like, start today and start to do something, because you don&#8217;t get today back, right. 0:48:20 &#8211; Eric SchaettyNo, and then that&#8217;s I mean. I like I would say the same thing, like I wish I could go back. But the other thing is, is that people like that? What I have done in my life has led me to this point in time. So just take it for what it is and then just move forward. Right, like you wouldn&#8217;t be staying, I wouldn&#8217;t be sitting here talking to you if it wasn&#8217;t for all these little things that have happened in my life. So just take it for what it&#8217;s worth and then you just move forward from there. Like you can&#8217;t, why change it? Right, it&#8217;s happened. You can&#8217;t go back. We can&#8217;t have a time machine. Right, it&#8217;s like, let&#8217;s think about, like, moving forward, the next step. So what are we gonna do next? Right, you can&#8217;t go back in your time machine. We can do something. We can get up tomorrow, we can go for a walk, we can go put a barbell in our hands, we can go to the gym, we can go find a strength coach, we can go do Pilates or bar or whatever you wanna do. But let&#8217;s move forward and not backwards, right, right, awesome. 0:49:12 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroAll right, brother, let&#8217;s get into these last questions. Caddyshack Happy. 0:49:16 &#8211; Eric SchaettyGilmore Caddyshack 100%. It was Christmas. It was always on, always on my grandpa&#8217;s house. We watch Caddyshack every year, Love it. 0:49:27 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroAll right, the third. So walkup song that you can pick first to the T-Box at Waterloo Country Club. Well, what are you picking? I don&#8217;t know, not really Whatever you want, but walkup songs to the first T-Box, Getting Hectic by the Urge. All right, is there a different one than you would pick at Waterloo Country Club? Um yeah, Probably. 0:49:48 &#8211; Eric SchaettyI mean it depends. Do I want to intimidate people or probably be corn blind? 0:49:53 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroOkay, how about Bill? I love it, bill loves it too. Yeah, all right, let&#8217;s see what&#8217;s our next one here. Oh, is there a book that you love, that you&#8217;ve read and that you love to recommend to people, whether it be golf, fitness, life, well, it&#8217;s an actual and it&#8217;s not a. 0:50:10 &#8211; Eric SchaettyIt&#8217;s Bobby Plaguer&#8217;s biopic Tales from the Blues Bench. It is some of the funniest stories. You like things about the 60s and the 70s and hockey that you wouldn&#8217;t even like, you wouldn&#8217;t think they would do it today and you&#8217;d be like you&#8217;re gonna jail, like some of the stuff they did, and it&#8217;s just, it&#8217;s a fun read, like it&#8217;s a great story. So yeah, tales from the Blues Bench, bobby Plaguer. 0:50:32 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroAll right, who&#8217;s your celebrity forcing if you could pick a forcing to go play with, you get four and a half to five hours to walk and just kind of shoot the shit with these people. Who&#8217;s he gonna be John? 0:50:42 &#8211; Eric SchaettyDaley, michael Jordan and my grandfather so my grandfather&#8217;s the one who helped me, like learn how to play golf, but we never played like a full round together. Really, for as long as you never played a full round Cause, when I was like like drinking days and like I would love to have that back to like what I like how I am now. I would love to have that back. 0:51:07 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroIs he still here? 0:51:08 &#8211; Eric SchaettyNo, he passed away three, four years ago, right around there. 0:51:13 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroSo we&#8217;d love to have that. Would your grandpa get in on the games too? 0:51:15 &#8211; Eric SchaettyOh, absolutely. He was the one in the Country Club. 0:51:18 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroHe&#8217;s absolutely he&#8217;d be at other games. We forgot to mention that you are the assistant to the chief gambling officer of the 18STRONG crew yeah man Turgoff, right. So I know there&#8217;s gonna be some serious games with MJ John Daley. All the games, I love all the games. All right, if we&#8217;re, if we&#8217;re loading up the 18STRONG jet, we&#8217;re flying anywhere you want to go? What&#8217;s your bucket list? Course, and I&#8217;m gonna throw this out, like I did to Bobby too, I&#8217;m gonna take it. You can say it if you want, but you&#8217;re gonna give me another one. I&#8217;m gonna take Augusta and St Andrews off the table. Riviera, all right, riviera. 0:51:50 &#8211; Eric SchaettyAnd it&#8217;s super hard. It&#8217;s Northern California, like it&#8217;s beautiful Riviera for sure, all right. 0:51:57 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroIs there a social media account that you think that the 18STRONG crew should go follow, whether that be golf or whatever, but big Barbell Medicine. 0:52:06 &#8211; Eric SchaettyBarton Barlow Medicine, jordan Barbell Medicine or Austin Barrocky at Barbell Medicine. All right? 0:52:12 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroThere we go, all right, and last one what&#8217;s the best piece of golf advice that you&#8217;ve ever been given? 0:52:21 &#8211; Eric SchaettyTake your medicine, take, take your medicine, take your medicine. My grandpa used to tell me all the time just take your medicine. To get in trouble, take your medicine. 0:52:31 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroGood advice, good advice. All right, brother, I can&#8217;t tell you how much I appreciate you being on. Where can people go and find you? 0:52:37 &#8211; Eric SchaettyE-Shat&#8217;s 82 on Instagram. Eric Schaetty on Facebook Schaetty Fitness Consulting. Or come see us here at Empire Fitness Academy 0:52:46 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroAnd I&#8217;m going to try to twist this guy&#8217;s arm to do a little content for 18STRONG with us here too. So we&#8217;ll be. You&#8217;ll be seeing a little bit more of him as well. So all right, brother, thank you very much. Thank you, yeah. Thanks for listening to the 18STRONG podcast and don&#8217;t forget to go follow us over on Instagram at 18strong. And if you found this episode helpful and want to help us spread the mission of 18STRONG, please share with a friend. Train hard, practice smart and play better golf.

Guest: Scott Fawcett (Decade Golf)Host: Jeff PelizzaroEpisode Number: 358Podcast: The 18STRONG PodcastPartners: Linksoul, 1stPhorm Summary Unlock the key to improving your golf game as we sit down with Scott Fawcett, the man behind Decade Golf. Together, we dissect the world of golf strategy, with Scott sharing his vast knowledge from his professional golf and poker background. His innovative system helps golfers at all levels understand shot patterns and make strategic decisions, thereby enhancing their performance on the course. We then venture into the art of setting efficient targets and managing expectations. This episode unravels the mystery behind strokes gained, a concept that measures a player&#8217;s performance, and its application in enhancing your game. The conversation evolves, encompassing course conditions and their impact on your game, alongside a walkthrough of the Decade system, which has already improved the performance of countless tour players. We wrap up our conversation by revealing the power of meditation in golf. Scott takes us through his preparation for the Champions Q-School, sharing his love for the game and how physical fitness and strength training can significantly up your golf game. As a bonus, Scott shares his dream celebrity foursome and his recommended reads that can help enhance not just your game, but also your overall well-being. This episode is your ticket to making smarter decisions on the course and taking your golf game to the next level! Main Topics (00:03) Decade Golf Professional golfer Scott Fawcett shares his Decade Golf system for smarter course management and lower scores. (11:52) Improving Golf Strategy and Managing Expectations Decade system improves golf performance by choosing efficient targets, measuring strokes gained, and considering course conditions. (18:58) Golf Instruction Shot patterns, mindset, putting, shape consistency, mental game, approach strategy, target commitment, and professional struggles. (23:22) Understanding Shot Patterns in Golf Understanding shot patterns leads to better decision making on the golf course and can greatly improve performance. (27:41) Golf Strategy and Tracking Statistics Nature&#8217;s DECADE acronym emphasizes choosing the correct target, considering constraints, and accurately judging wind for successful golf strategy. (38:12) Form, Golf, and Partnership Celebration Tracking statistics and playing smart golf can improve your game, as discussed with First Form and the Decade app. (44:34) Analyzing Golf Performance and Strategy Professional golfers like Cam Smith and Zach Johnson use statistics to improve performance and manage egos and variance. (54:50) Training and Preparation for Golf Q-School Fitness, injury recovery, and love for golf are discussed by a guest preparing for Champions Q-School. (01:04:21) Recommended Books, Dream Celebrity Foursome, Power Professional golfer Scott Fawcett shares his walkup song, recommended book, dream celebrity foursome, and bucket list golf courses. He also discusses the benefits of meditation for golf and overall well-being. (01:12:19) Effective Communication in Social Media Scott shares his struggle with conveying thoughts in text versus in person and encourages listeners to follow 18STRONG on Instagram. Follow Scott Fawcett and Decade Golf Instagram: @decade_golf Website: https://decade.golf/ Episode Partners: LINKSOUL:&nbsp;For your 20% discount on LINKSOUL gear, go to&nbsp;18strong.com/linksoul&nbsp;or click the logo above. 1st Phorm: Try any of the 1st Phorm products with FREE SHIPPING, go to 1stphorm.com/18strong.com (By using this link, you will be entered into our Monthly 1st Phorm Giveaway!) More Cool Stuff to Check Out: To continue the conversation and ask any questions you may have, head over to the&nbsp;18STRONG Movement group on Facebook. 18STRONG Pro Shop (Get your 18STRONG gear!) 18STRONG Resources (All of the cool stuff we recommend: products, books, golf stuff, etc &#8211; and discount codes for the 18STRONG Crew) Want the full episode transcript? (click the &#8220;+&#8221; ????????) 0:00:03 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroThe 18STRONG Podcast, episode Number 358, with Scott Fawcett, creator of Decade Golf a tour-proven course management system to shoot lower scores. What&#8217;s up guys? Welcome back to the 18STRONG Podcast, where we&#8217;re here to help you build a stronger game, because we know that everyone deserves to play better, longer. This episode is an exciting one for me. We get to talk with Scott Fawcett, the creator of Decade Golf. If you haven&#8217;t heard of Decade Golf, it&#8217;s a tour-proven course management system designed to shoot lower scores. That doesn&#8217;t mean that it&#8217;s just for tour players. This is for every level of player. In fact, scott said it&#8217;s really designed initially to help younger players learn how to manage their course and to be able to play better, so they don&#8217;t have to go out onto the tour and learn how to do all this stuff. In this episode, we talk with Scott about the Decade System, of course, and really how most of us don&#8217;t have any kind of strategy when we go out onto the golf course. We talk about how to figure out shot patterns. Should you hit the ball two different ways? Should you learn to fade it and draw it? We talk about just making better decisions on the golf course, as well as Scott&#8217;s involvement in tour players the players that he&#8217;s worked with that have gone on to win major tournaments and really how most of the tour players, in one way, shape or form, are using some sort of background in the Decade System. This is a really exciting episode because even if you&#8217;re not a very competitive golfer, you&#8217;re like me. You&#8217;re going out on golf trips with the guys You&#8217;re playing on the weekend. You&#8217;re trying to win your club championship. This is also for you, so don&#8217;t think that this is a super complicated thing. That&#8217;s only for the tour level players. So we&#8217;re going to get into all of that right after this. Our partners over at Linksoul have been providing us with the best apparel for both on the course and off the course, from polos to t-shirts like the one I have on right now. Everything that they have is meant to be worn from the golf course to wherever you&#8217;re going next, whether that be casual, whether that be to the beach, there&#8217;s all different options over there. So go to 18strongcom slash Linksoul. You&#8217;ll get 20% off of anything in your cart over on Linksoul&#8217;s website. So again, 18strongcom slash Linksoul for our favorite brand of apparel for anything on the golf course and off. Now let&#8217;s get to this week&#8217;s interview Got faucet. Welcome to the 18STRONG podcast. 0:02:40 &#8211; Scott FawcettHey, thank you. Thank you very much. I&#8217;ve always enjoyed these conversations. 0:02:43 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroYeah, man. So this is really exciting. I alluded to this in an email that I was just on a golf trip with a bunch of buddies to Nashville and really wish that I would have had this podcast episode done. So I had a little more tools than the tool belt before going out there. But so Decade Golf obviously has become, I mean, just kind of blown up over the last several years. Give me just a little bit of the brief history for people that maybe don&#8217;t know Decade and don&#8217;t know kind of the story and the golfer that you worked with initially right out of the gate, that really kind of blew this thing up. 0:03:16 &#8211; Scott FawcettSure, you know I played golf at Texas A&amp;M, got finance and economics degrees and played professionally unsuccessfully. Oh, I say that for six years out of college. I won a couple of times on the Hooters Tour unsuccessfully, meaning I did make it the PJ Tour, but I was pretty solid otherwise and then started an energy company when Texas D regulated back in 2002, which is technically still my day job but right around that time I started playing a lot of poker, which, again, I&#8217;ve studied finance and econ and math quite a bit. I never really thought of golf as a math game, but after studying poker in the early 2000s I started thinking like you know, if you get a bad beating poker, you&#8217;d better get your head around you or you&#8217;re just throwing money away really quick. And somehow that never dawned on me as a professional golfer the one I&#8217;m getting pissed off that I&#8217;m just throwing money away, but apparently I&#8217;m not that smart. But so then in 2011, they started releasing the Strokes Gain statistics and I kind of realized that with the shot patterns stuff we had, there was just like a little idea there that started kind of turning in 2011. And then in 2013, when they released the entire Strokes Gain catalog, I was like that&#8217;s exactly what I needed. I didn&#8217;t realize that they were tracking that much data with Strokes Gain. But I just realized that we could combine shot patterns from launch monitors like a four-side quad into and then combine it with the strokes to hold out. Then it&#8217;s just a giant weighted average math problem essentially. And I guess what&#8217;s funny, I spoke at MIT in Wharton last year and I&#8217;m like guys, this is just weighted average math. This is not really very advanced stuff. I&#8217;ve never felt dumber in my life, but I actually caught. I was telling somebody about this just yesterday. I wouldn&#8217;t have thought of it otherwise, but in the 2013 US Mid-Am I caught a root on the second hole and really hurt my right elbow, wound up shooting 83 and called it a day after 18 holes, so I could just go ahead and head on back to Dallas because it was not good. Well, that&#8217;s the same elbow that the week before the Texas Am. That&#8217;s right around the time that I started doing all of this work and was planning on playing a lot of golf in the summer of 2014. And the week before the Texas Am, I got a quarter zone shot of my right elbow and the doctor actually paralyzed my right arm for a couple of days, which, yeah, it was pretty wild. I mean, my arm just kind of folded up and he was like I mean he was using a sonogram. He&#8217;s the Mavericks team doctor, so I wasn&#8217;t concerned until I went back and he&#8217;s like, oh yeah, I thought I paralyzed your arm. I was like, oh really, because it just literally curled up like this and I could pull it down and sit on it. But obviously I can&#8217;t play golf with a paralyzed arm. But once it came back to life a couple of days later, he was like I would let, I would take a couple of months and not play, because I would let it just whatever would happen in there really clean itself out. And so Will Zalatoris, who I used to have to tell everyone who that is he was just a 17 year old junior golfer at my home course. I just and I&#8217;ve known him since I was on the corn fairy tour in 2009, which was right around the time he moved to Dallas from San Francisco. So he&#8217;s just a nine year old kid out there, 10, 12 year old kid, whatever and just following me around like a puppy dog. So he and I had been doing chipping and putting and playing and everything, since he was literally single digits of age. And so I called him and I was like, let&#8217;s go grab some lunch, I&#8217;m going to explain something to you. And so I kind of showed him what I did with the math and the strategy, because I mean, he&#8217;s a great ball striker now, obviously, but he was just as good back then. I mean he really was unbelievable and just kind of explained it all to him and I was like, let me catty for you next week, let me just try to play you like a video game. He was like absolutely Cause again at the time he was 3,300 in the world in the junior rankings, had never really won anything at all. And I cattyed for him and he won the Texas sandbite Now I can&#8217;t even remember if it was either three or four shot four straight under par rounds, which he&#8217;d never done before in a tournament, and just on and on. And you know it was just interesting breaking down after the fact because so much about it was just expectation management, not having ridiculous expectations, and then obviously playing approach shots correctly with, with targeting, that is so, since he&#8217;s such a good ball striker and he definitely was struggling with his playing back then also. So he&#8217;s trying to make birdies with his approach shots instead of just saying you know what? I&#8217;m probably going to birdie the par fives. I&#8217;m going to make my birdies on these par fours just within the variance, within my shot pattern, meaning I don&#8217;t even have to aim at a hole and I&#8217;ll accidentally polar push it every so often. And then it&#8217;s really about bogey avoidance, which again and we&#8217;ll talk about this a million times over throughout the thing but catty from the area one. He qualified for the US junior the following month I went down and catty for him in Houston anyone. And then that&#8217;s just really where, like I say that, the SMU coach came up to me at the US juniors, like I don&#8217;t know what you&#8217;re teaching him, but I think you&#8217;ve got something to teach these kids because you just had no idea. I&#8217;ve known him since we were in college. He played at SMU while I was at A&amp;M, so you should have no idea how dumb these kids are. Like we were at the same time. And so a month or two later he asked me if I would come teach it all to Bryson DeShambo. Obviously, depending, bryson is one of those names you can be, can be just a one word name, even though it&#8217;s not like Tiger or something like that. So I go teach it to DeShambo. A couple of months later he wins the NCAAs. And it was just funny because, looking back at it, everybody has got crazy talent. I mean, even the listeners think they should have shot lower every single time they play. These guys are no different. That&#8217;s when a 10 handicap thinks they&#8217;re going to be happy. When they&#8217;re finally a scratch, it&#8217;s like no, you&#8217;re not. You&#8217;re 25%ile of worse rounds, feel just as bad or even worse, because you feel super stupid because you&#8217;re a scratch, you know. So it&#8217;s just about taking these young players and just cleaning up their thought process, picking better targets, having more reasonable expectations, and so next thing, you know, I&#8217;ve, you know like last year I have 11 of the top 15 players from PGA Tour. University were decade members in college, 17 of the top 30 from this year&#8217;s corn fairy class. I mean, it&#8217;s just hilarious how these young players just clean up their brain a little bit. You know, we used to always think that you had to get out on tour and learn all the shots to start making in your early thirties, and hindsight it&#8217;s like no, you needed to get older, get a prefrontal cortex that actually functions, then screw it up for a couple of years to finally learn your lesson. And here we are in 32, an actual adult. 0:09:10 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroYeah, I mean I, you know, I look at myself, I look at my buddies I look at and many of us that didn&#8217;t play golf growing up, you know, now it&#8217;s a, it&#8217;s a huge passion of ours and many of us are just recreational between you know, say, a five and 15, maybe even 20 caps. But even just you know us as 40 year old guys. I&#8217;m like man. How much can we gain simply by understanding how to play the game better? And I have a son I was mentioning. He&#8217;s 15 years old, made the freshman golf team last year but he&#8217;s really just kind of getting into any kind of competitive golf and I&#8217;m like man. This is the stuff that really I need to put in front of him right now so he can kind of learn that. 0:09:47 &#8211; Scott FawcettI think that somehow the best players just intuitively figured it out, and Tiger would actually be one of the few that didn&#8217;t, until he turned pro. He was just so much better than everyone physically and hit it so much further than everyone that he could crush junior and amateur golf, and I&#8217;m sure he would have had a great career. But I&#8217;ve got this one video in the app where it&#8217;s from the same video, when Curtis Strange is asking him what would be a good finish this week and he&#8217;s like first and second sucks. And Curtis tells him you&#8217;ll win or you&#8217;ll learn, rather. And then it&#8217;s like no, you will actually Curtis, but yeah. And then the later in that video, that same interview though, he said you know what&#8217;s kind of some of the learning you&#8217;ve done since you&#8217;ve been out here? He said that he had played with Nick Price the prior year in the US Open and he said that after the first round he shot like 65 or six and was leading. And he asked me you know like how many pins do you fire today? He said he said he fired it too. And then he went out the next day and did the same thing after the round he asked me he said like two again and Tiger&#8217;s like well, here I was firing at every single one of them and Nick at the time was number one in the world and, you know, crushing everything and I really think that was probably the most important 36 holes of his life to realize there might be more to this than just bludgeoning a golf course. And that&#8217;s where you can really. It&#8217;s fun going back and listening to a lot of his interviews now because, man, you can really so much if it sounds like sports cliche, but you can really pick up a ton of stuff. And one of my favorite ones I remember is I can remember if it was the US Open or if it was, I think it was just a tournament at Torrey. But they asked him and Joe Lacové after the round they said you know what was the best shot you hit all day? And in unison, immediately they both said the three iron on whichever hole. That par three is on the back. And I was like there&#8217;s no chance that ball is going to be within 30 feet of the hole. But they both immediately any par three out there that you&#8217;ve got a three iron in your hand, there&#8217;s no chance the holes is target. And I just listened to that. I went back and found it. I think the shot was like 42 feet from the hole and it&#8217;s like they both said it was an absolute laser beam that is targeting and it&#8217;s like there you go, this guy&#8217;s. You know. I&#8217;m not saying anyone should be firing three irons at flags, but like they both knew that was such a good shot and was obvious where their target was. And again, just learning how to play the game correctly, like I say, it&#8217;s just that. It&#8217;s. It&#8217;s this thing I say all the time. But if you feel like you should have shot lower, there&#8217;s only one of two things possible You&#8217;re either not as good as you think you are or you made mental and strategic mistakes. There can literally be nothing else. It&#8217;s one of those two, and so once you get people, no one wants to admit they&#8217;re not as good as they think they are. So then they&#8217;re like all right. Well, maybe I&#8217;ll turn this stone over and I mean again just a hundred percent of our decade members improve. I mean it&#8217;s. I feel like such a snake oil salesman saying that, but literally everybody gets better because we can just track their stats and data. Just pull your head out of your butt. 0:12:28 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroWell, I mean, I think that most people have no idea, really any kind of strategy. I shouldn&#8217;t say most people. I&#8217;m thinking a lot of the recreational guys, a lot of the golfers that you know are at the country clubs that aren&#8217;t tracking hardly anything in. As I was watching some of your videos on your website, you said that decade the name actually stands for six steps to choosing a target and playing efficient, patient, disciplined golf, and that doesn&#8217;t describe many of the golfers that I know. It describes none of them. 0:12:57 &#8211; Scott FawcettWell, it&#8217;s the thing that popped in my head when you said you know you&#8217;re trying to be kind by saying you know some people played with good strategies. Like no, literally everybody played with poor strategy back in the day, or at a minimum they might have chosen some good targets, but then they also had a bunch of cliches like favor this angle, leave it below the hole. You know all these other things that are just patently incorrect for no doubt a net negative. I mean, there just literally is nobody Tiger excluded, in my opinion, that probably played with just perfect patient strategy. 0:13:28 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroCan you for all of us that you know? Strokes gain has become a huge term in the world of golf these days. We&#8217;ve actually had Mark Brody on the show a couple of years ago. But can you give us a refresher on what exactly strokes gain means, in the simplest form possible? 0:13:43 &#8211; Scott FawcettYeah, what you got to start doing is, rather than thinking of a shot in a certain amount of feet for a putt, or a certain amount of yards for an approach shot, you&#8217;ve got to start thinking in shots to hole out. So, generically, we know that from eight feet the pros are 50-50. So it takes an average of 1.5 strokes to hole out. You know it&#8217;s basically a coin flip from eight feet. So if I make an eight foot putt, I&#8217;ve moved it one and a half strokes closer to the hole in one stroke. So I gained a half a shot against my expectation. If I two putt it, I&#8217;ve moved it two shots. In essence lost a half a shot of expectation. So then you just know, from every single inch on the golf course, so from 100 yards in the fairway, it&#8217;s 2.8 shots to hole out. A 400 yard par four is where they average 3.98, basically four shots. And again, this is what&#8217;s funny is most people would, when they walk up to a 400 yard par four they&#8217;re like, okay, this is an easy hole, it&#8217;s a birdie hole. Like no, no, no, no, it&#8217;s an easy hole, it&#8217;s a hole you&#8217;ve got a better chance of making par on On tour. They&#8217;re not making birdie that often. I mean it&#8217;s just, it&#8217;s amazing Again, once you just kind of know some of these numbers. And again, they&#8217;ve marked Brody because obviously he&#8217;s a brilliant man. They&#8217;ve got a number of ways that they adjust for course conditions. So it&#8217;s not like all this is one of the things the announcers constantly get wrong, or anyone who wants to try to be like a naysayer is they&#8217;re like well, not all eight foot putts are the same. It&#8217;s like yeah, that&#8217;s why we have a daily adjustment on tour. Now, yes, generically, if I&#8217;m sitting here catting for you, I&#8217;m going to tell you this is about 50-50, but realistically it&#8217;s about like 1.47 to 1.53. It&#8217;s just not as big of a difference as most people think to be this spot versus that spot. And again, the second year, the first year rather of decade, is expectation. I don&#8217;t know that. I would have realistically known how important that was until just seeing the success of this year after year after year. I mean it&#8217;s funny because a guy like David Ogren won a couple of times out on tour. He&#8217;s catting for the 15-year-old that cattied for Bermuda next week. He&#8217;s one of his students and so David asked me the other day if we could hop on a call just so he could ask me some questions about how to catty and work with these kids&#8217; brains and stuff. And the number one thing I told him was just to literally tell him the expected value from every shot. So just if you have to have a card in your hand, knock yourself out and just hey, right, here we are, 165 yards in the fairway. Make a three here and that&#8217;s two or average. Again, a lot of tourist players will say I don&#8217;t want to be two or average. It&#8217;s like, again, that&#8217;s not really the right way of looking at this. But if you beat this average by 3.97 and it&#8217;s four, that&#8217;s three-hundredths of a shot. But if you did that 18 times, it&#8217;s over half a shot. You&#8217;re one of the best players on the planet. That&#8217;s where, again, you just have to start thinking in fractions of shots, because not only can you only gain shots in fractions of shots, you also can really only lose shots in fractions of shots. So even if we go on to a hard hole that has like a 4.4 scoring average, if you make bogey there, yes, you dropped a shot to par. That&#8217;s kind of irrelevant. You dropped a half or a point six shots to the field in your competition. That&#8217;s not as painful and like it&#8217;s not. It&#8217;s really just not that big of a deal. But when you start making a double on a hole like that because you tried something stupid from the trees, now you&#8217;ve lost one point six shots instead of point six shots. It&#8217;s literally almost three times as bad because again you&#8217;ve got to wrap your head around that you can only gain them back in tenths of a shot also. So it really is. Yeah, it&#8217;s only one shot worse to par, but it&#8217;s actually three times ish as bad when you factor in how you&#8217;ve got to make it up. 0:17:26 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroWhen you&#8217;re talking about managing the expectations. I mean, I look at it as what you just said is this is just going to help you keep from doing stupid things, like making those stupid decisions right. I mean, how many times have we hit it, hit it left, hit it in the trees? It&#8217;s a par five. Well, now I&#8217;m going to make up that for that shot. And I got to go try this. So the first time I heard about Decade and started looking into it, I was like man, this seems a little bit complicated. Where do I even start? And then I know that you guys have now kind of even scaled down to the foundations where you have kind of a lower grade level, not for the tour players but for the guys more like myself and my buddies. So where does somebody initially start with when they&#8217;re starting to get into Decade? What&#8217;s the first step that they start to look at? 0:18:12 &#8211; Scott FawcettWell, it&#8217;s funny because even when I used to do so, I created a seminar when coach Enlo wanted me to come work for Bryson. He&#8217;s like it has to be done indoors because otherwise they would consider me a third paid coach. So I created this indoor seminar, shot a bunch of drone footage and went in and we were giving it and with my seminar it used to be just straight into approach shot strategy, tee shot strategy, putting strategy, and then I ended with an hour of mental stuff and throughout giving the seminar, multiple times, the mental stuff started working its way in earlier in the session and I&#8217;d be like well, we&#8217;re going to get to this later. I&#8217;m going to explain it to you now. And literally I completely wound up flipping it because, again, as a self described lunatic, I used to be the biggest basket case on the course back in the day, and so that&#8217;s where we start now. So when you get the app, the first channel is technically titled getting started, and it is just about here&#8217;s how shop patterns work, here&#8217;s the realities of putting. Here&#8217;s a few simple ways to pipe. Here&#8217;s why hitting one shape in a stock shot over and over and over and over again so important. So there&#8217;s probably an hours worth of content just on. Hey, this is step one of pulling our head out of our butt. And then the next section is the mental section, which is where I explain Dr Lardon&#8217;s scorecard, which is a stat we talk about. You know just how you do. Anything is everything. So there&#8217;s like five or six videos in that. And then we finally get into approach shot strategy, because I definitely have just realized if you don&#8217;t have the base, you&#8217;re just going to blow through the rest of it so fast that you&#8217;re really not going to learn it. And that&#8217;s the whole reason with the foundations is I want people to digest it. So month one is you just get the getting started stuff and then three weeks later we give you a little bit more. So what I&#8217;m really doing it&#8217;s technically all the same content, but it&#8217;s rather than you getting all of it the day you purchase it, you get it basically over about four months, every three weeks, because I want you to take the three weeks and then what I&#8217;ll say in the last video of that series, like, okay, I want you to take the next couple of weeks when you get out, hit balls, be looking for this, be looking for that, noticing your shot pattern. That&#8217;s why I have people hit at the same target all the way through the bag, because I want you to be centering your shot pattern over your ultimate target. You know missing roughly half left and half right. When you&#8217;re changing targets all the time, you don&#8217;t really get as good of a feel for that, and so one of the main things that, like professionals, get wrong and I definitely got wrong was I feel like I chose good targets back in the day but then I didn&#8217;t actually try to hit it there. I would choose a target with a seven out of maybe five or six yards right of a flag and then I would think, okay, well, I hope I pulled this a little bit. And again, I don&#8217;t. I don&#8217;t know at what point you get good enough. I know a 30 handicap doesn&#8217;t have that thought, so I don&#8217;t know at what point you get good enough that that thought starts creeping in. Because I do feel like listeners have to be like are you serious? Yes, 90% of the PGA tour I mean probably not as much anymore, but 50%. Certainly a couple of the noun 90% a couple of years ago would have that thought five or six times a day and I do believe that that&#8217;s where the outlier shots come from is just this lack of commitment. So that&#8217;s, we start with shot patterns and mindset and commitment, because that is that is the main thing I actually think I&#8217;m teaching. 0:21:20 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroI love that you, you almost you kind of force feed us just a little bit so we can&#8217;t jump ahead and get ahead of ourselves and dive into the stuff that we want to learn. 0:21:27 &#8211; Scott FawcettAnd you know, because you naturally want to get right out to the range and go beat balls and but having that mindset, and I don&#8217;t think the production quality is that great, because it&#8217;s literally me, just a golfer and an electricity salesman just voicing over PowerPoints and you&#8217;re. So it&#8217;s not the highest quality content but the the information in it is exactly that. I mean it is just tailored for players like us who just I mean again, that&#8217;s the whole reason it goes slow, because it&#8217;s like I think that most people actually enjoy the content and I feel fear that they would binge watch it. Then I mean most I get. I get nothing but comments. I mean, yeah, it&#8217;s not, it&#8217;s not obviously produced in a, in a Hollywood studio. But man, I just can&#8217;t stop watching these videos and I&#8217;m like that&#8217;s exactly why I have to force you to stop watching them. 0:22:14 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroYeah, absolutely so. Talk to me a little bit about shot patterns and you know how, how you describe it to us and and I mean the relevance of it, and then also picking targets and and how we can kind of get a little bit better. Obviously, that&#8217;s what a lot of this program&#8217;s about, so we want them to get into the program, but give us some some scoop there, sure. 0:22:32 &#8211; Scott FawcettI mean shot patterns are just, they&#8217;re shockingly large. I mean everybody thinks that like a tour player has just got total control over it and they&#8217;re just huge. Which is why I like on reachable par fours Number six at wing foot immediately pops to mind where the layup is about 200 off the tee to leave about a hundred yards. And you know it&#8217;s just a, it&#8217;s a dead if you ship it up there around the green and then you you&#8217;re on the wrong spot but it&#8217;s, the fairway is only 20 yards wide at 200. Like, those guys aren&#8217;t going to hit that much more than about 70% of the time and so now 30% of the time you&#8217;re sitting back there in the rough. But. But so that that&#8217;s just an indication of how big shot patterns actually are. Again, with just a five or six iron for those guys they will not hit a 20 yards fairway nearly as much as you think. Now if we step it all the way back to driver, I mean they&#8217;re just massive. I mean there there are holes on the PGA tour where the shot patterns a hundred plus yards wide on a hole, that&#8217;s like they&#8217;re kind of all aiming. It&#8217;s not like this is a some huge hole at Pacific dunes or whatever band and dunes, wherever it is that all the architecture lovers love with the, with the angles, number 11 at TPC Sawgrass has a lake on the left and a desert on the right and the shot pattern is literally 80 plus yards wide every single year. And I mean, once you understand that again, like now, if we come up to a hole that dog legs left around a lake like number 18 at Sawgrass, it used to be a fader like me. We&#8217;d get up there and try to hit a draw, to work it in, it&#8217;s like, or you could just. If my shot pattern is roughly 70 yards wide with driver, I can just aim 35 yards right of the furthest pile on, I can carry and then just hammer driver, I&#8217;m kind of crossing my fingers, I hit it left, but I&#8217;m certainly not hoping I hit it left because if I do this four times it should work out to about 50, 50 or what I talk about. Winning requires luck so much. It&#8217;s also possible that just three out of the four days I happen to pull it on 18 and I&#8217;m sitting out there in the fairway. That&#8217;s, that&#8217;s just luck and that&#8217;s really convenient. So just understanding shot patterns and how to manage them around the golf course is just again literally everything. But what people need to do is kind of go hit 20 or 30 balls with the same club at the same target and just notice where it&#8217;s going. I mean, that was definitely once Will and I agreed at lunch that I was going to come loop form the Texas Sam. We went straight out to Ben tree here in Dallas cause I was like I really feel like getting him to commit to targets is the hardest part, like like in a pre mortem. What&#8217;s going to go wrong if this goes wrong, he&#8217;s going to be hoping he pulls stuff. So we went out there and I literally just sat behind him with a yellow notepad and we just had him hit balls at the same flag and I was just kind of dotting how far left and right each one was and then just kind of showed him like look at this. I mean I&#8217;ll give the kid credit. First of all, he did actually center his shot pattern directly over the target, which most people will be skewed one direction or the other. And but what&#8217;s amazing is in back then. I didn&#8217;t really know the numbers yet but I was like I mean this is incredible. Man from 180 yards. The vast majority of your shots are within 10 yards left and right of the flag here. And he was like, is that good? I&#8217;m like I don&#8217;t really know, but it seems good, cause now I think about you out there at that distance on a golf course and basically never missing the green. Yeah, that&#8217;s really good. But also what he had to notice was if we&#8217;re on a 20 yard wide green and we are aiming at the middle of the green, if the pins on the left, right, like I don&#8217;t really care where the flag is One of these shots that I just kind of handmade a track man scatterplot. I didn&#8217;t really have access to attract men in 2014. I just kind of handmade a track man scatterplot and just illustrated that to him. And again, I&#8217;ll give him all the credit in the world because that was definitely the one thing. I thought he&#8217;d screw up and just went out there in the golf tournament and this is what&#8217;s funny. I&#8217;m just gonna give him the first nine holes. He literally hit every single shot exactly where I told him to and I was sitting there like I&#8217;m pretty sure this kid would have shot lower if I wasn&#8217;t cadding today, because he would have stuffed a whole bunch, but he shot like 67, because he played the par-five as well. And then we came out the next day and he just hit it all over the face, all over the lot. He was super nervous and he grounded out a 70. And I was like, wow, that&#8217;s the difference. That should have been like a 76 with the way he hit it and where his frustration level would have been in patience and just everything. If this had been the prior week, it for sure would have been a 76. And, like I say, just understanding the realities of shot patterns and the realities of resultant expectation, just what is your expected value score from any given spot on the course? It&#8217;s just hard to get mad or frustrated. Again, trust me you can, but it&#8217;s just a lot harder. 0:27:15 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroSo I&#8217;ve heard you talk about it in regards to like a shotgun, right, like you see, the pellets spray, and many times when we&#8217;re looking at a pin or a target, I think we think so much left to right, but also that shot pattern goes forward and backwards, right. So talk to me a little bit about like par-threes Most people are, or even just from the fairway people are talking about center of the green, center of the green, but that&#8217;s not always the case, right? 0:27:41 &#8211; Scott FawcettNo, definitely not Again. Like this is where a lot of people who like to give me a hard time they&#8217;re just like oh, center of the green, how&#8217;s this guy making money Just telling people to hit at the center of the green? I&#8217;m like it&#8217;s not even close to that. Center of the green on number 18 at St Andrew&#8217;s, when the green is 50 yards wide and you&#8217;re probably about 40 yards. That&#8217;s really bad advice. Center of the green on number 10 at Pebble Beach, where the green is only 17 yards wide and there&#8217;s an ocean on the right. That&#8217;s also really bad advice because you should be aiming almost at the left edge of the green. So really you know again, that&#8217;s just the decade acronym D distance. How far are we? We&#8217;ll skip the E because it&#8217;s expectation C. Correct target is your target based on the length of the shot. And then A analyze is analyzing the surrounding hazards, and that&#8217;s again just, it&#8217;s just not as simple as middle of the green and that&#8217;s something you said earlier too about. Like it kind of seems a little complicated and like it is. It is complicated because golf is a complicated game. That&#8217;s again, I&#8217;m just giving you a hard time but like, trust me, that&#8217;s the main thing I get all the time too, and I&#8217;m like, well, what&#8217;s more complicated, chess or checkers? Well, checkers, do you think you could beat a grandmaster at chess? I highly doubt it. I don&#8217;t care who the best player in the world is at checkers, like they&#8217;re probably not that much better than you are. It&#8217;s a pretty straightforward game, yeah, so just really understanding that choosing your target based on the constraints of the shot is by far what you need to be doing. And again, center of the green is just, I mean, it&#8217;s the correct thing, a lot, but also it&#8217;s not. I mean, there&#8217;s a number of times Mark Brody did a study on this where he was just showing he was just an eight iron, just like 170 yard shot to a back left pin, and he did the calculus with the shot pattern centered over the target and over the middle of the green and then also over the optimal target, and the middle of the green was worse than aiming directly at the flag, like. So there&#8217;s this inflection point, typically between the flag and the middle of the green, and I&#8217;ll say, like I&#8217;ve got super lucky on the system that I came up with, like I did a lot of math and I could do a lot of math in my head to come up with the targets. I got super lucky that it&#8217;s actually a pretty easy system to teach people to do again, based on this baseline number and the analysis that you do in your practice rounds. But the long and short where you originally went, we&#8217;re going with your question. I mean, people just suck to front hole locations and it&#8217;s just because you can&#8217;t over peer a shot. So if you&#8217;ve hit a seven iron 170, a single time in your life, you&#8217;re like that&#8217;s my perfect 170 club. And it&#8217;s like well, I don&#8217;t want to be negative, but you average 160 with it. And to back pins and front pins you can largely get away with it. But to front hole locations you simply can. And this is again even for tour players. Like anytime I&#8217;m working with a new tour player, I&#8217;m always just like well, I mean those amateurs on Wednesday, they&#8217;re just idiots. They have no clue how far the ball goes. And they&#8217;re like, oh my God, that&#8217;s just hilarious. I&#8217;m like, yeah, you don&#8217;t either. It&#8217;s less awful, but you&#8217;re still wrong by two or three yards. And now when the pins on the front and it&#8217;s five or six yards on and you don&#8217;t know how far you carry this club by two or three yards. That&#8217;s probably an extra 25% of the time you&#8217;re coming up short. And this is what&#8217;s hard is, yeah, I want you to carry it probably past that pin and if you hit it, perfect, you&#8217;re probably gonna have 30 or 35 feet coming back. But that&#8217;s better than you&#8217;re gonna be short. Chipping from short, which is probably below the level of the green, which is terrible. Probably in rougher a bunker Like that&#8217;s not good either, and so you just really you need to hit 30 or 40 balls. This is why I mean I don&#8217;t like just coming on and bashing Arcos, but I heard they were bashing me the other day. So whatever, this is where just telling me the average of the length of how far you hit every seven iron, that&#8217;s really pretty useless information. It&#8217;s better than nothing, but into the wind hurts more than downwind helps. Was I punching it? Was I ripping it up? Like there&#8217;s just more to it and again, like it&#8217;s great for a 10 ish handicap, 15 handicap. I&#8217;m sure that there&#8217;s enough information in there, but if you actually want to be good at this game, you need to know how far you carry every club in a static, zero wind, zero altitude or your home altitude environment, and then you need to figure out how to play for it, which guys like Jeff Smith and other people two instructors that have they&#8217;ve got the system now that my understanding is an FBI ballistics expert came up with it on how to rate, how to play and judge into the wind and downwind and crosswinds Towards. Now that&#8217;s just, it&#8217;s every caddy on tour will just have this little card in their in their yardage book cover that tells you basically exactly what the wind&#8217;s gonna do to every shot. Now, obviously, if you&#8217;re saying it&#8217;s 10 miles an hour, it&#8217;s blowing five to 15, so we still got that variable. But as long as you can put a pretty decent average number on it, the wind is almost irrelevant anymore. There&#8217;s just so much stuff like that that I don&#8217;t think people at home really realize. 0:32:40 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroWhat. So what are the things that we tend to track? Or many don&#8217;t track anything, but what are some of the things that we tend to track that really you&#8217;re like that doesn&#8217;t even matter. And then what are the things I know? On your website you&#8217;ve got the five things that we should be tracking. So what are some of those, if you wanna share those with us? 0:32:57 &#8211; Scott FawcettTotal putts is beyond useless fairways hit, I mean, as long as it&#8217;s over 50-ish percent. I&#8217;m gonna need more information to like do you hit it 320,? Do you hit it 240? Like, I&#8217;m gonna need more information. Greens and regulation is great, and this is where Mark Brody and I were actually playing golf at Pinehurst a couple of years ago during the golf magazine Top 100. And the guy I think was Kordie Walker that was walking on and playing with us was like what&#8217;s the most important stat to track? And I was like well, I mean, I guess Greens and Regulation is the most correlated to score. So I guess Greens and Regulation and Mark cause he&#8217;s a billion times smarter than me he jumps in and he&#8217;s like well, if you think about it, scott, if you know that it&#8217;s pretty much perfectly correlated with score, you don&#8217;t really need to track Greens and Regulation, cause if you tell me you hit 60% of the Greens and Regulation, I can pretty much tell you what your average score is and vice versa. And I&#8217;m like yeah, that makes total sense. So you know, the Strokes Gain putting is a pretty good metric without being on tour. Everything else is pretty flawed using Strokes Gain Again. This is why, as a guy who sells a stats portal for a living. I try to always make people know like the stats is secondary. The point of decade is not statistics, it&#8217;s to teach you how to score so you can figure this stuff out on your own, because all the Strokes Gain stuff on tour we&#8217;ve got daily adjustments but it&#8217;s your home course. If you&#8217;re playing Harbor Town and I&#8217;m playing Augusta and we&#8217;re using the same benchmarks for Strokes Gain driving, that&#8217;s not gonna go well for you, cause you&#8217;re gonna be hitting a lot of two irons off the T&#8217;s and you&#8217;re gonna be hitting them in trees and I&#8217;m gonna hit driver on every single hole and I&#8217;m not gonna hit the trees that much. And so if you&#8217;re just using distance off the T again, there&#8217;s just a number of things that are flawed, but that&#8217;s what you alluded to a second ago. The five stats everyone should be tracking back in the late nineties. I mean, yes, tiger was doing great, but I think he won maybe three times in like 97 or eight, and then each other year was just a win. I mean it wasn&#8217;t like he was crushing it and he won eight of the last 11, I believe in 99. And my understanding is he basically started tracking. Okay, when I finish around and think I should have shot lower, why? What is it Like? It&#8217;s not cause I&#8217;ve missed a green with a four iron, it&#8217;s cause I missed the silly, this easy up and down, or I made a bogey with a wedge, or I three putted from 20 feet Like. Those are the ones that we want to identify. So Tiger came up with these five statistics double bogeys, bogeys on par fives. He tracked bogey with nine iron or less. But considering how far the ball goes and everything now and what I think, he probably hit nine or maybe I just say bogeys from inside 150, blown easy save and three putts. And again, blown easy save is subjective to his opinion. So I just have players track how many two chips. And again, if you sit down after around a golf and you think I should have shot lower and it&#8217;s not one of those five, you&#8217;re kidding yourself. I mean, that&#8217;s the situation of you&#8217;re not as good as you think you are. But if it&#8217;s one of those five, I mean again, obviously a 10 handicap is just gonna make bogeys from 140 and they&#8217;re gonna three putt. But even Tiger, it wasn&#8217;t no blown easy saves, it&#8217;s how many? Tiger figured out that if he could keep those five things to six or less, so one and a half around. I mean, again, if you think about it, that&#8217;s none. I mean that&#8217;s a decent amount of pretty dumb stuff he would win. And the actual number it&#8217;s like 6.2. Like, again, you can&#8217;t really do the blown easy saves, but the actual number when you go through and do a little math on it he was right around correct of what you needed to have a top five finish on tour, cause most of that&#8217;s just scoring data that we can go back in and actually analyze. And again, this is where when I say like I was a lunatic in my twenties, like I literally would go get all pissed off, not go to Chili&#8217;s with my buddies and talk about all the dumb stuff I did that day and then never think about it again. And here&#8217;s Tiger doing the same stuff literally at the same time. I mean I graduated from college at the same time and he&#8217;s like, well, I&#8217;d like to stop doing that and I&#8217;m just like man, this is frustrating, it&#8217;s shocker. He did better than I did, right. 0:37:08 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroI want to take just a second to thank our new partner, which I&#8217;m really excited to announce is 1st phorm. 1st phorm is a company that is here in St Louis, based in St Louis. It&#8217;s a nutritional company that is doing incredible things in the world of nutrition and one of the reasons that we decided to partner with 1st phorm is obviously we&#8217;re very impressed with their dedication to their products and the quality of their products, but really it&#8217;s the dedication to them, them helping their customers get real results Aside from just the products. We got a chance to go and actually visit the facility again here in St Louis and really walk the halls of the corporate offices. But we got to see the manufacturing plan or the warehouse, and it&#8217;s not just a place where they&#8217;re packaging supplements and shipping them out. It&#8217;s a culture, it&#8217;s a community, and you can see that amongst the employees. You can see that their culture and their core values that are not just pieces of art on their wall. They&#8217;re actually letting them there and they&#8217;re helping to expand those into the community and really that&#8217;s why we partnered with 1st phorm. Obviously, their products are incredible. Otherwise we wouldn&#8217;t suggest them Either. We use them on a regular basis. So you&#8217;re going to be hearing a lot more about their products and what they can do for your fitness, what they can do for your golf game, the protein powders, the multivitamins, the protein sticks, the hydration packets all of those products we&#8217;re going to highlight in future episodes. But we just wanted to really celebrate our new partnership with 1st phorm. You can go to their website, 1stphorm.com forward slash 18STRONG, and we&#8217;re going to be doing a giveaway every single month with anybody that buys through that link. So go to 1stphorm.com that&#8217;s P-H-O-R-M dot com. Forward slash 18STRONG. That&#8217;ll take you directly to their website and you can check their whole suite of products. It&#8217;s including some of their fitness apparel and anything that is purchased over there. You&#8217;re going to be enrolled into our list for our giveaway. So when, after your round, you track those things, you see okay, I did this, I had this many three putts. Then what do we do with that? How do we take that and get better at it, as opposed to just what you were just saying, like, okay, tomorrow I&#8217;ll just count them up again. 0:39:21 &#8211; Scott FawcettWell, obviously, if you&#8217;re tracking them in the decade app, we send you content once a week based on your statistics. So, yeah, we&#8217;ll send you a video like hey, we noticed you made a couple bogeys with a wedge or did this or that or whatever. There&#8217;s 200 plus videos that are just like five-ish minutes long, that are kind of in this back catalog behind the scenes, and so it goes through. I could say some artificial intelligence sounds smarter than it is, but it&#8217;s a little bit of AI. Figures out which ones it sends you. Sends you stuff again each week, but if you&#8217;re tracking them on your own, it&#8217;s. There was a player on tour that he was wanting me to find something from to work on a couple of years ago and I&#8217;m like honestly, your scoring average he&#8217;s a fader. Like your scoring average from the left rough sucks. It&#8217;s like a 0.3 or 0.4 shots higher than from the right rough. I don&#8217;t really have any advice for you on that, other than notice, the next time you&#8217;re in the left rough and I trying something that&#8217;s probably a little bit harder than I need to here, I don&#8217;t really know what to tell you other than that, because I can&#8217;t see each shot and the main thing that I would tell people that want to go out and track the Tiger Five mistakes is just make them less and the next time, whichever one you&#8217;re really you&#8217;re having a bunch of, you need to be aware the next time you&#8217;re in that situation Like you know what, I&#8217;m making a lot of bogies from inside 150. I&#8217;m 120 here let&#8217;s really think this shot through, what&#8217;s my target, what&#8217;s the surrounding hazards, and then really commit and really try to make a par here. Again, it sounds dumb, but that&#8217;s the exact advice I give to our players. So, if a tour player sometimes, like you know, I&#8217;m really struggling with my gap wedge right now let&#8217;s just don&#8217;t screw this one up. And again, I don&#8217;t need you to make many birdies to average 2.9. But you just can&#8217;t make bogies. I just cannot make bogies. And again, that&#8217;s just some of the funny parts about it. There&#8217;s so many of the older guys that I&#8217;ve talked with tour players. There&#8217;s like when we were down the tiger, we just knew we couldn&#8217;t catch him because he wasn&#8217;t going to help us. And I&#8217;m like, yeah, that&#8217;s A, he&#8217;s really good, I get it. I&#8217;m not oblivious to that. But also, if you&#8217;re really good and you&#8217;re out there just trying to avoid those five mistakes. Again, I don&#8217;t really care what he says in some of his interviews and stuff where he&#8217;s like, well, you got to get the hammer down here and there and whatever and I&#8217;ve analyzed 20,000 of his shots by hand where the targets had to have been based on the sum of all of them I just don&#8217;t think that he really changed much. He just went out there and he tried to play good, smart golf from the first to the 72nd hole. And, like I say, I&#8217;m probably about to make a total idiot on myself and champions to her Q-School here in a couple weeks because I&#8217;ve not played golf in months. But I also there&#8217;s part of me that feels a little bit confident that if I can just get on the course a couple times to do some putting drills, I&#8217;m going to outthink these guys just for sure. I mean just there&#8217;s no doubt about it. I&#8217;m going to play more patient, discipline golf and a lot of times in a Q school. It&#8217;s about just not doing dumb stuff more than it is doing incredible stuff. And then if you&#8217;re taking that same mindset into your club championship or into a full tour series, it&#8217;s like if I do the right thing. For 54 straight holes, there&#8217;s a much better chance of me coming out on top. Just a little bit of luck, I mean still going to have to. You know, if you&#8217;re, if you&#8217;ve got 20 guys, they&#8217;re all kind of the same You&#8217;re still going to have to have a little bit of luck to for it to go your way, but you can certainly ensure you&#8217;re going to play well. 0:42:43 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroWell, that&#8217;s, that&#8217;s what I&#8217;m thinking is like knowing that most people out there, especially in a club championship or you know, like some kind of a guys trip or like nobody has any strict strategy around what they&#8217;re doing out there. You know, my, we have a rider cup that we do every single year with a bunch of college buddies, wide range of players, and unfortunately I wasn&#8217;t able to make this year, but the guy that&#8217;s the captain next year, he&#8217;s like we&#8217;ve lost the last two. We got to do something this year and I&#8217;m like you know what this? I&#8217;m going to talk to all the guys on the team and just implement a little bit of strategy and it&#8217;s bound to give you quite a bit of an edge over all the other knuckleheads that are out there playing. And, you know, going to your point of managing expectations, you know I feel like so many of us feel like we&#8217;re disappointed because, simply because of our expectations, going out thinking this is a birdie hole and, like you said, no, this is just a don&#8217;t bogey hole. Or I was just talking to a client the other day and he&#8217;s like I&#8217;m really working on trying to hit the ball from right to left. He&#8217;s, you know, naturally hits the left to right and I&#8217;m like hold on a second. I&#8217;m talking to Scott Fawcett this week and I don&#8217;t think he&#8217;s going to approve of that. 0:43:53 &#8211; Scott FawcettNo, I mean, again, it&#8217;s just trying to shape the ball both directions is so overrated it&#8217;s unbelievable. I mean, and again, this this guy that just graduated from the corn fairy tour, that had an hour long conversation with yesterday, that was the one that was the most impressive, that was the one thing you want to talk about is like firm greens and shaping the ball. He&#8217;s a fader and shaping it to like a cleft pins and stuff. I&#8217;m like my definition. What you&#8217;re laying out for me is a hole that&#8217;s going to have a high scoring average. You don&#8217;t have holes that you&#8217;ve got 180 and firm greens into aren&#8217;t going to play several tenths of a shot over par. Like it just doesn&#8217;t happen. So if we can get that ball on the green and make a par again, this is the way you&#8217;ve got to think of this. Math is Okay if it. When when Cam Smith won the tour championship or not, the the the tournament champions a couple of years ago, he was 34 under par and he was 14 shots clear of the field average. The year that Zach Johnson won the Masters and all the announcers like to talk about, well, he didn&#8217;t go for a single par five. They kind of lead out the fact that nobody did that week. Literally he won it one over. It was miserable, it was 45 degrees and misting, like it was not. So he didn&#8217;t win because he didn&#8217;t lay up, he won because everybody else laid up. He was laying up anyways. And it&#8217;s just like about understanding these very basic mathematical odds. So if they&#8217;re both 14 shots clear of the field average and if we&#8217;re on a hole, that because of the firm greens and all this stuff, it&#8217;s playing with 4.2. If you can just take this shot and put it on the green and two put it, you&#8217;ve gained two tenths of a shot. That same kind of a shot. If you did that 72 times, you would be over 15 shots clear of the field average. You would literally win a hundred percent of your starts on tour with as I&#8217;m describing this to tour players 90 percent of the time. They&#8217;re like well, that&#8217;s not that hard to do. I&#8217;m like then I would do that. And that&#8217;s again where, once you start getting these younger guys to think this way, I mean again I hate like saying the sky&#8217;s the limit, but that&#8217;s why I mean just every single one of them is has got, whether they&#8217;ve, whether they&#8217;ve got actual decade background or not. They&#8217;ve all at least heard and understand the ideas now. And that&#8217;s why you&#8217;re just seeing every I mean just scores are dropping and just yeah, it&#8217;s just the games. We make the game way harder than it has to be. It&#8217;s actually I haven&#8217;t even thought of this thing in like five years, but it&#8217;s this paradox that golf is so hard that you have to play it correctly, which then actually makes it relatively easy. I mean, if you just eliminate doing all the dumb stuff we do every single day, that&#8217;s half the battle. 0:46:25 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroWhat&#8217;s what&#8217;s been the biggest challenge? Working with some of the best players in the world. You know you got these guys that. I would assume you know there&#8217;s probably some egos involved. There&#8217;s guys that think that you know they can, they know their yardages, they know, they know how well they hit it. They hit it better than anyone. What&#8217;s that been like? Trying to temper that. 0:46:46 &#8211; Scott FawcettJust using math at them. I mean again, that&#8217;s, that&#8217;s it. I mean just literally stating here&#8217;s the facts, these, I mean no one&#8217;s going to do better, much better than this, these averages year and year out. Because again, when I say much better, like obviously by definition, whoever&#8217;s number one is doing really well, but if you break it down like per hole, it&#8217;s just not that much. I mean again, if you&#8217;re, if you&#8217;re gaining nine tenths of a shot in any given category, whether it&#8217;s approach or putture, putting or whatever, like you&#8217;re probably leading or right there at it, it&#8217;s 0.05 shots per hole. And again, like I realize doing that every single hole is a lot, but once you look at it on a per hole basis, it&#8217;s just not. Again, it&#8217;s indistinguishable for the most part. And that&#8217;s again where I do believe that the majority of the players that are just great, consistently, somehow, some way they just understood this stuff at a young age. 0:47:42 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroWhen you look at a guy like Scheffler, who had a year where his I think his scoring average was one of the lowest ever, but his putting was he was also one of the worst statistically on tour, I believe, yeah, I mean. What do you? How do you explain that to people? I mean honestly with him. 0:48:00 &#8211; Scott FawcettI just I don&#8217;t. I mean it&#8217;s it&#8217;s interesting because variance does play such a large role and so it&#8217;s possible. One of the two players I worked with a number of years ago. I was watching and he was like minus three and change putting, and I was just like it was the first round after we had talked I was like oh my God. But I was also like you know, every single put he has is between 15 and 25 feet. Like he just kept on hitting it to 15 to 25 feet and literally within four minutes of him finishing his round, my phone rang and I picked it up. He&#8217;s like dude, that was amazing. He&#8217;s like the putting was not nearly however bad. He&#8217;s like I have no idea what he&#8217;s doing. I have no idea what the number was, but it was all over the whole day. I was like well, that&#8217;s good. Because the thing I was going to tell you is it&#8217;s entirely possible, you putted well today, but just because of having this specific range of putts and that&#8217;s what I would say with Schaeffler is it&#8217;s entirely possible. I have no idea, but it&#8217;s entirely possible he got off to just a little bit of bad luck, a little bit of bad variance through some part of the season and then started trying to fix things that weren&#8217;t potentially really broken. And then it just becomes mental and that&#8217;s. It&#8217;s sad, but man, that&#8217;s just. That&#8217;s so pervasive and that&#8217;s what I try to tell people. I actually use the stats and strokes gained to convince players I work with they&#8217;re not as bad as something, it&#8217;s something as they think they are, at a factor of 10 to one more than I use it to say here&#8217;s what you need to work on. I mean, they just ask these questions all the time to players but it&#8217;s like what do you think the average score is from blank? And I&#8217;m not kidding, 100% of the time they say a number lower than the actual expectation. I mean you would think that even if they&#8217;re all guessing too low like maybe sometimes players would guess a higher number, a 100% of the time they guess lower the actual number by a wide margin too. And again now, if you&#8217;re out there thinking from whatever, from 20 feet, you should make some certain percentage of them and then you just keep missing 20 footers. It&#8217;s pretty easy to get mental really quick, and that&#8217;s again what I did and pretty big reason why I didn&#8217;t make it. And that&#8217;s what again, once you start taking these younger players and convince them of these numbers, you have to use the data and the math to do. 0:50:10 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroWell, and I think, watching golf a lot, obviously we&#8217;re seeing the best of the best and we&#8217;re seeing the best shots from the best of the best. So naturally, our expectations. You know, somehow we think we should be hitting shots like those, but we, you know, so it&#8217;s already hit one. 0:50:25 &#8211; Scott FawcettSo you&#8217;re like I want to get it more, more. Yes, exactly, I just do that. 0:50:30 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroYeah, it&#8217;s crazy. It&#8217;s crazy. But then to go out and watch and follow around of those guys you know going out to. I had the chance to go out to the corn fairy tour finals and walk and follow a couple of guys and it&#8217;s like, oh man, I didn&#8217;t think the guys hit shots like that out here, and they sure do, you know. I mean, they hit it all over the place sometimes too. 0:50:51 &#8211; Scott FawcettWell, and that&#8217;s again. I made this mistake in Houston one year. I missed the Monday qualifier so I stayed at Buddy&#8217;s house and I went out. David Duvall was my man crush at the time and I went out and followed him for nine holes and I swear to God every single shot and like I&#8217;m out there just with him. He&#8217;s number one in the world. He&#8217;s just striping everything and I&#8217;m like I drove home like I can&#8217;t compete with that. It never dawned on me. I don&#8217;t have to. I don&#8217;t have to and I&#8217;m honestly not even sure if I recognized at the time, because I was like a couple of years ago I was like you know, I&#8217;ve told that story a million times how did he do in the tournament? And I went and looked at it he won by seven or eight. I&#8217;m like, yeah, the guy was playing pretty good golf at the time and it&#8217;s just, it&#8217;s just incredible. Again, it&#8217;s all. It&#8217;s such a cliche saying that golf, you know your main competitor is the course, but it really is the course, the course and the average score. I mean what everyone else is doing is literally, it&#8217;s not irrelevant to you, but it&#8217;s irrelevant to your game. It&#8217;s the only ball Some people try to take so much mindset and other studies from other sports and applying to golf and I&#8217;m like it&#8217;s just a different sport. It might be why we all love it, but it&#8217;s just a different sport because there&#8217;s no defense, there&#8217;s no shared ball, technically aside from live with the shotgun. There&#8217;s not even a mutual clock, like you just don&#8217;t know what your opponent&#8217;s going to do until it&#8217;s kind of too late and so trying to. It&#8217;s just exhausting to be running all these iterations in your head of what, these different scenarios for the win top 10, top 25, making the cut, like no matter what, there&#8217;s always some number you&#8217;re close to and again that&#8217;s. I don&#8217;t know that. I would have appreciated this until Stuart Sink. He bought the app the week before he won in Napa. So his first win in 12 years came the week after he bought the app. And then he won six months later at Harbor town. And after his win in Harbor town I went on PGA tour radio one day and we&#8217;re talking about it and then he came on the next day and his quotes super long, but it&#8217;s amazing. But there was towards the end of he&#8217;s. Like it takes the mental energy that used to be required to deliberate and make decisions like that, and decade makes the decision for me which keeps me fresh. It&#8217;s pretty simple and I like using it and I&#8217;m like I don&#8217;t know that because I&#8217;ve really in the last seven years, since eight, nine years Jesus I haven&#8217;t really played that much golf myself, and so most of the golf I played there, most of the time I was on the golf course, was caddying for will for five or six straight years in the summers and everything just cause it was so fun. And now I&#8217;m just getting to play a little bit and I don&#8217;t think that I&#8217;ve ever appreciated how valuable that aspect is, just being less tired, and one of the main things about being less tired is just stop worrying about everybody else. Again, I talk a lot about meditation and that&#8217;s. You know I used to feel pretty spooky talking about it, like I, you know, should be in California or something like that, not in Texas. But now that&#8217;s the one good thing social media has brought is the spotlight on Kobe and Jordan and Tiger, and you get so many more interviews with these people now with podcasts and everything where they&#8217;re a little more candid than they are maybe in books and stuff and they&#8217;re talking out the cuff and you just find out that so many players have some sort of meditation routine. You talked to earlier about some of the players I work with, like frustrating stuff. Like I got one guy that should be a world beater and you know he asked me at the end of last season what do I got to do to get into that top 10? And I&#8217;m like you got to stop pouting. Like you look like you could start crying at any second out there. And that&#8217;s going to come from an awareness and that&#8217;s going to come from meditation, where you&#8217;re more aware of your thoughts. You&#8217;re not just being yanked around in any direction your brain tries to lead you. You could actually be aware of what you&#8217;re thinking and then again it&#8217;s easy to say stop thinking it. That&#8217;s the skill and why having a practice? Again, we&#8217;re now talking about people that want to get to the highest level. It&#8217;s incredible how hard it is to get people to do that. And I&#8217;ve got Tiger on audio saying I play golf as a moving meditation and my mom started me doing it when I was born. I&#8217;m like there you go. You&#8217;re not going to catch up to that guy, but you better start now. It&#8217;s just so obvious that golf is a moving meditation or the zone is a moving meditation. Golf is not a moving meditation. The zone is a moving meditation. 0:55:15 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroSo you have champions Q-School coming up, so tell us you said you haven&#8217;t been playing a whole lot, but when is it? Where is it? And then tell us a little bit about your prep. 0:55:24 &#8211; Scott FawcettYeah. So it&#8217;s interesting. I played some pretty good golf this spring and early summer and then I had four straight tournaments in July and I played pretty good. I shot 64 in the first round of the Texas State Open and had the lead as a 50 year old amateur. But then in the third round I did something to my ankle. I just I didn&#8217;t, I was just walking and I tore muscle like the ligament that goes around the back and behind your ankle. I tore somewhere where that attaches and so I had to just basically take six weeks and do nothing but ankle rehab and I literally did. I didn&#8217;t touch a club for over two months. And at this point now I&#8217;ve played golf twice since July. I&#8217;ve got a simulator here in my house, so I&#8217;ve started hitting balls probably twice a week in the last three weeks just to start, like loosening up my joints and everything. And this is where it&#8217;s weird, man Again with what I feel like. I know I usually drive it well, I actually got to play. One of the two times I played was in the Constellation Furick and Friends Pro Am, again with my electricity company. They sent me an email like four months ago saying hey, would you like to compete with some of the best 50 year old golfers on the planet. I&#8217;m like that&#8217;s pretty ironic. Yes, I would. So I actually went and played with Alex Chetka in the Pro Am. Oh, cool, and that&#8217;s the. That was the first time I played in two and a half months and I drove it great, which is funny to me. I don&#8217;t really understand why other than the fact I don&#8217;t make it complicated I just set up and just try to hit a hammered cut every single time and you know, I&#8217;ve been doing this for 50 years, so I&#8217;ve gotten decent at it. And, honestly, the way I feel like, if I can just get out and at least put for 10 hours over the next three weeks, which I should be doing 10 hours a week, my goal is to play. I&#8217;m going to get greedy and say five times, but Q school starts four weeks or four weeks from two days ago. So Tuesday in four weeks it&#8217;s in California, out at Subobo Springs, I think. It&#8217;s an Indian casino down there, of course, looks good from the satellites, but I literally I just chose it because it was the furthest time, wise, first stage away, because I just wanted to. I knew I needed as much time as physically possible. One of the stages starts next week. I&#8217;m like that would not be good but my ankles feeling pretty good, pretty strong shoulders. I&#8217;ve also got a torn rotator cuff and some other stuff in my left shoulder but it&#8217;s feeling pretty good after doing all the rehab I&#8217;ve been on. So I&#8217;m moderate. I&#8217;m definitely overly optimistic. I feel like I can get through first stage. Now the problem is second stage is there&#8217;s only four cards and then just the top 20 guys get any sort of conditional status, which all that actually does for you on champions tours gets you through the Thursday pre qualifying. But that&#8217;s really ultimately my goals to somehow get through first stage and then somehow play solid enough to top 20 at final stage. Just I feel like I can work some sort of a schedule. But if you have to do the Thursday qualifier, you got to do the Thursday qualifier, the Monday qualifier and then the tournament doesn&#8217;t even start till the next Friday. Is a guy who runs two companies with a wife and ex-wife and a 10 and 14 year old girls. That ain&#8217;t going to happen at all. 0:58:33 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroWhat does your, what does your training schedule or training look like? I mean, obviously you&#8217;re a very fit guy. I know you hammer a ball. I mean as far as, like you know, a lot of the listeners that we have are in the 35 plus crowd, so very curious to see in here what you do. 0:58:49 &#8211; Scott FawcettI usually try to get to the gym for at least an hour and a half or almost two hours at least four days a week. I just do old man exercises, just. I&#8217;ve definitely enjoyed a number of different golf specific guys, but I just always wind up going back to the same 12 or so exercises. I&#8217;ve always enjoyed working out. I&#8217;ve been fatter at some point in my life. I mean I&#8217;m definitely the most in shape I&#8217;ve ever been. I had surgery on both elbows in 2021 to finally clear all that up and then really just the last two years I&#8217;ve probably put on 20 plus pounds of muscle and gotten down to about 20% body fat. I can tell you&#8217;re pretty lean and fit, so 20% is probably much higher than you are. But I don&#8217;t really like the cardio and I definitely like eating like crap. So I need to probably grow up out of that. But yeah, it&#8217;s training, definitely just getting as strong as possible. I just don&#8217;t feel like that can be a bad idea, especially with all the science now of like if you&#8217;ve, if you break a hip over the age of 65, it&#8217;s like a 50% mortality rate in the next year and it&#8217;s like a 90% You&#8217;re at least going to be incapacitated to some degree, whether that&#8217;s a walker or something, and it&#8217;s like just doing the most you can to keep as much muscle on your body and that&#8217;s where, yeah, I&#8217;d like to do more golf specific stuff, but I just don&#8217;t have time for it. And I&#8217;m like half vein too, or I&#8217;m like, well, I wouldn&#8217;t mind being bigger. Also, it definitely helps me hit the ball further. I actually think the two having size is as weird as it sounds helps with your chipping and putting. I think the tiger strength was as big of an asset in in just stabilization and agility for as chipping as putting as it was for anything else. I mean obviously the guys, the goat, essentially everything. So whatever he does can&#8217;t be bad. I mean I think it&#8217;s funny when people give him a hard time saying he was on steroids and stuff back in the day. I&#8217;m like you mean, a 32 year old athletic guy can&#8217;t put on. I mean again, you literally put on over at that age over a pound of muscle a year easily, excuse me, a month at. You know, 12, 15 pounds over the course of years just is nothing. And on his frame that looks like a billion pounds of muscle. I&#8217;ve put on like nine in the last 15 months and I look noticeably bigger, like you take and I&#8217;m 220,. You take his 170 pound frame and put 15 pounds of muscle and it looks ridiculous. Yeah, I mean again, he might have been, but I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s mandatory. If it was, he probably wouldn&#8217;t have gotten his injured. 1:01:20 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroWhen you say old man exercises, are you talking like squats, deadlifts, like that kind of stuff, Squats deadlifts, lat pull downs. 1:01:27 &#8211; Scott FawcettI do like getting on the machine where you can do the arms back as well as turn around and do the flies. I&#8217;ve been doing a lot more of the knot. I need to do the exercises where you&#8217;re abducting, I guess. 1:01:40 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroYeah the good girl, bad girl machine. Yeah. 1:01:44 &#8211; Scott FawcettGood girl, bad girl oh my God, that&#8217;s amazing. I&#8217;ve never heard that before, somehow. That&#8217;s incredible. I like doing the bad girl version of it because I feel like that helps your right glute as much as anything. And then obviously, lat, pull downs, tricep extensions. I&#8217;ve definitely been doing more face pulls. I&#8217;ve heard that that&#8217;s really good for along the back of the shoulders, the lateral raises, front raises, calves, yeah, and then squats. You know it&#8217;s funny. I don&#8217;t know why. I&#8217;ve still never tried it, but the one where you I think it&#8217;s like a donkey kick or something, where you get on your like on all your elbows and then you&#8217;re down and then you&#8217;re just like pushing back with one leg. That seems like a hell of a lot better exercise for the glute and for the golf motion than just a squat where you&#8217;re still like seated when you&#8217;re extending it into a full plane, I guess you know, from your head to your toes or straight line, and I literally have never once tried it. I look at it every time and I&#8217;m like that looks like such a better exercise and I&#8217;ve never even gotten on the machine for some reason. 1:02:43 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroYou&#8217;re talking to one where you&#8217;re almost like in a harness and you&#8217;re leaning in and then pushing the way back. 1:02:48 &#8211; Scott FawcettAnd then pushing back. 1:02:50 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroWe don&#8217;t have one here, we had one at our last facility and, no, it&#8217;s a great machine. Plus it, you&#8217;re kind of suspended a little bit, so you&#8217;re having to use a lot of core while activating and you get that the leg kind of in front of you and have to drive from there. So it&#8217;s yeah it is. It&#8217;s a great. It&#8217;s a great machine. All right, there we go. I&#8217;m going to try it. 1:03:06 &#8211; Scott FawcettThe next time I go, I&#8217;m going to try I tell you what this is what&#8217;s weird man this is. I really have been a train wreck these last couple of years. I was planning on playing all day today and I literally last night I don&#8217;t know what I did, but between just beneath my rib cage and between my hip on the left side there&#8217;s a pain in there Like I mean it&#8217;s dicey. I mean I was asleep 15 minutes before we started because I just went and laid down. I don&#8217;t know what I did, but man, it hurts. I&#8217;m lucky I originally was like Googling and said kidney stones. I&#8217;m like I feel like if I got a kidney stone I would literally just kill myself. That is, I&#8217;m terrified of getting a kidney stone, but I guess that&#8217;s supposed to be more around towards your spine. So I was like thank God. 1:03:47 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroYeah, I mean it could be. You know, it could be like some oblique and ab related stuff, depending on what&#8217;s going on. But yeah, if it persists, better get that checked out for sure, for sure. All right, my friend, just a couple of questions to finish off with you. I really appreciate your time today. This has been awesome, all right. So we asked us if everybody comes on the show Caddy Shack or happy Gilmore. 1:04:09 &#8211; Scott FawcettI&#8217;m changing on that as I get older. I definitely was a Caddy Shack guy all along. Adam Sandler used to drive me crazy, but now my kids like his movies and my wife likes his movies, so I&#8217;ve been watching more of them. So I&#8217;m probably going to go with happy Gilmore now. 1:04:21 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroAll right, If you could pick a walkup song to the first T box. What&#8217;s your walkup song? 1:04:26 &#8211; Scott FawcettOh, what is it? God dang it. I&#8217;ve literally answered this question just the other day and it is, oh my God, there it is the Rolling Stones Paint it Black. I couldn&#8217;t come up with that Nice. That opening guitar riff is just amazing. 1:04:46 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroIs there a book that you&#8217;ve, you know, really dug into over the years, something that&#8217;s meant a lot to you? Doesn&#8217;t have to be golf, could be anything, but you tend to recommend to people. 1:04:55 &#8211; Scott FawcettThe Art of Learning by Josh Waitskin. It is absolutely incredible. That&#8217;s actually what Zala Taurus and I. I&#8217;ve read it leading into the Texas AM. I bought him a copy. I&#8217;m like I want you to read this thing before the tournament starts. And then at the US Junior. I didn&#8217;t really realize at the time because there wasn&#8217;t as much into the meditation stuff as I was, but we were staying about 45 minutes away from the golf course and Will&#8217;s dad is a little bit of a nervous driver, to say the least, and I was like I can&#8217;t ride with this guy for 45 minutes because he&#8217;s on the brakes and on the gas and on the horn. I&#8217;m like I cannot do this in Houston traffic. So I told him I was like, hey, Will and I are just going to ride in my car so that way we can just talk a little bit and get in the right mindset. He&#8217;s like absolutely, he&#8217;s a good guy, whatever. And we literally were silent for 45 minutes every single day, driving there, just listening to the Art of Learning and just it didn&#8217;t. It doesn&#8217;t really matter where you pick it up, it&#8217;s applicable to everyone&#8217;s life, like literally every single chapter. And I don&#8217;t think I realized at the time, we were basically just doing almost an hour long just meditation Cause. Again, it was by design. I&#8217;m like, dude, we&#8217;re going to be together all day. We&#8217;ve just really shouldn&#8217;t talk for the next 45 minutes. It is exhausting, it is dehydrating, let&#8217;s just get our minds right. And he was like, okay, cool, and so that&#8217;s literally all the way to the course and, honestly, all the way home too. We would just sit there and listen to it. Just, it was one of those deals that was like our ritual that works, so we kept on doing it. I will say this is the one question I wanted to add to. Also, though, the tour player that I worked with yesterday. He was like that&#8217;s the most amazing book ever. He&#8217;s like I&#8217;ve read it at least 40 times, and, you know, over the course of the last couple years. And he sent me an Audible of a book called Richard Weiser Happier by William Green, and so I literally haven&#8217;t even started it yet. But this kid, you know, played golf at an Ivy League school and he&#8217;s a. He&#8217;s a good player and a good guy, and if I was looking at that, I was like, well, if you recommended that one, I&#8217;m going to bet it&#8217;s pretty damn good, You&#8217;re not going to recommend a book you can&#8217;t stand behind. 1:06:53 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroAwesome Art of learning has been on my list of books to read for the longest time, so this is definitely going to make me press the end. 1:06:59 &#8211; Scott FawcettI would pick that to the top. It&#8217;s amazing. 1:07:00 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroYeah for sure. All right, who would be your dream celebrity? For some, if you got to play with anybody in the world, doesn&#8217;t matter who it is past, dead or alive anybody you&#8217;d love to play with, I mean that would definitely be Tiger, I would probably say Jordan, and then, just to keep it fun, I&#8217;ll say Mark Wahlberg. Yes. 1:07:24 &#8211; Scott FawcettAwesome, or DJ Khaled. 1:07:28 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroLet&#8217;s go golfing, all right, excluding Augusta and St Andrews, because that&#8217;s what seems to be what everybody picks. It&#8217;s kind of like a wheel of fortune. You know, we&#8217;ve taken out the certain letters. What&#8217;s a bucket list course that if we could fuel up the jet right now. And I said, scott, we&#8217;re going, where do you want to go? Where are you? 1:07:45 &#8211; Scott Fawcetttaking us? The irony of that question is I&#8217;ve played Augusta National once and it was on November 2nd seven years ago. So I played Augusta seven years ago today and it was brutal because it was actually just overseeded, so the fairways were all just long and wispy. The course is soaking wet and we played it from a step off the back at like 7,800 yards. It was actually miserable. I actually need to go play it again closer to tournament conditions. If I had died and never played it, it&#8217;d be like well, whatever, nobody gets to play Augusta. But now that I&#8217;ve played it like that, I&#8217;m like I have to see this thing closer. So I actually will say Augusta, but I will say you know, pine Valley would have to be the one, seminole. I love Florida, so Seminole would be cool, but I would probably go with Pine Valley barely over it. 1:08:31 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroAwesome. All right, what&#8217;s the best piece of golf advice that you&#8217;ve ever been given? 1:08:37 &#8211; Scott FawcettThat&#8217;s a good question. Can it be advice I gave myself? Yeah, for sure I would say just start meditating To know, to finally learn. You don&#8217;t have to get mad. I mean that&#8217;s, it&#8217;s funny because I get, as you know, hundreds of thank you type emails and I would say I get as many or more you&#8217;ve helped me in my life with the content than I get. You&#8217;ve helped me purely with my golf game, I mean. And that&#8217;s if there&#8217;s any one thing, like I said before we started, like I&#8217;m not really impressed with this world we&#8217;re putting together here with phones and social media and everything. And that&#8217;s one of the reasons that, if there&#8217;s any one thing I would like to hang my hat on at the end of whatever career this is, is just getting more people into meditation and accepting that thought is just a thought and they cannot live, you know, based on whatever the next thought is in their head. I mean, again, I talk a lot about Sam Harris, but his waking up app. I literally recommend that almost more than I recommend my own app. Now, the convenient thing for me is Sam will actually give it away to you for free If you just Google waking up free. He&#8217;s a pretty nicer guy than I am, but just learning that a thought is nothing more than a thought and you do not have to just let it dictate your actions, it&#8217;s just. I wish I would have known and understood that younger. 1:09:57 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroThat&#8217;s amazing. I love it. All right, my friend, this has been so much fun. I&#8217;ve learned so much and definitely want to dig in more into the decade app. Tell us a little bit about well, first of all, where people can find it, and I know that there&#8217;s a couple different levels, so feel free to tell everybody yeah, you can just go to decadegolf. 1:10:16 &#8211; Scott FawcettWe finally tried to take this business series over the last nine months. At first I was just always kind of like, yeah, it&#8217;s fun, passive income and whatever. It&#8217;s finally got the point where it&#8217;s kind of big enough that it&#8217;s a real deal and lots of fun. So we&#8217;ve finally got decadegolf up and running. Foundations, like I say it&#8217;s the two are identical Foundations is definitely designed foundations and elite Foundations is definitely theoretically designed for a junior golfer to force them to go slower. We have free yardage books. So if you&#8217;re a person who actually plays golf and uses yardage books at all, I really tried to design the app to where it pays for itself. You get elite. You get 52 free yardage books a year should be 48. And with foundations you get one a month for the six months, because I figured those players aren&#8217;t probably playing quite as many tournaments and we do have a cost associated with the yardage book. But you just type in what course you&#8217;re playing. We&#8217;ve got all 42,000 courses on the planet in the database. If you look at it and yours is not updated, you just have to send us an email and we will get the course updated, usually in about 48 hours or less. Yeah, so decadegolf. Thankfully I punted Twitter, because it&#8217;s such a cesspool. Instagram is, I think it&#8217;s decade, underscore golf, and that&#8217;s there&#8217;s the main places. 1:11:33 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroCool. We&#8217;ll have it all linked up in the show too. And congrats on on punting Twitter. That&#8217;s awesome yeah. 1:11:39 &#8211; Scott FawcettThat&#8217;s the best move. I mean literally. That was a top five move of my life. 1:11:46 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroI can only imagine so much, so much more headspace now. 1:11:48 &#8211; Scott FawcettOh my God, the inbound is just incredible. And what the problem is, they think they&#8217;re arguing about opinions. I&#8217;m like this is not a mathematical certainty, like you were literally arguing two plus two is five. If you could just take a second. And what I finally realized with Twitter is you have to condense your, your idea, into one post. That&#8217;s why I&#8217;m considered like. So, just like blunt and kind of an a-hole is just because if you, I might get a hundred thousand views on the first tweet and like 10,000 on the second and like eight on the third. So it&#8217;s like if you don&#8217;t get it all into one post, you might as well not even try, because no one&#8217;s going to read it all, and then see might. It will just be as direct as you can, which apparently is really hard to do for me. 1:12:29 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroYeah, it comes off a little different in text than it does in person. Exactly Awesome, scott. Thank you so much for your time and really looking forward to to sharing this with the 18STRONG crew Awesome, thank you. Thanks for listening to the 18STRONG podcast. Don&#8217;t forget to go follow us over on Instagram at 18STRONG, and if you found this episode helpful and want to help us spread the 18STRONG mission, we&#8217;d really appreciate if you shared with your friends. Staying hard, practice smart and play better golf.

Guest: Dr. Zac Cutler (Sports Performance Chiropracter, FGLC Performance/Golf and Training Institute)Host: Jeff PelizzaroEpisode Number: 357Podcast: The 18STRONG PodcastPartners: Linksoul, 1stPhorm Summary Imagine having the secret to improving your golf game right at your fingertips. The key could be as simple as understanding your body mechanics better. That&#8217;s right, we&#8217;ve got Dr Zach Cutler, the lead chiropractor at Golf and Training Institute (formerly FGL Performance), spilling the beans on how body mechanics can be a game-changer for your golfing skills. Dr Zach will talk about his thrilling experience at the 2016 US Amateur and how his golf background is instrumental in assisting his patients. Fancy knowing more? We&#8217;ll walk you through the world of sports chiropractic and its impact on a golfer&#8217;s performance with the experts from the Family Golf and Learning Center. They cater to different age groups, building strength for kids, considering past medical history for adults, and helping everyone step up their game. We&#8217;ll shine a light on common golf-related injuries, specifically low back and SI joint issues, the importance of core stabilization, and breathing techniques to prevent these problems. You&#8217;ll also get to hear about the role of T-spine and hips in back pain, and tips to improve swing speed and distance. If you think that&#8217;s all, well, we&#8217;ve got more. We&#8217;ll be sharing our personal experiences, discussing the mental aspect of golf and how it influences other life areas, not to mention, announcing our partnership with First Form, a nutritional company committed to helping customers achieve real results. Hear the stories of overspeed training, postural exercises, and the challenges of finding time to practice and train. Lastly, a professional golfer will share his best round on the course, his favorite golf movie, book, and his dream foursome. So, put your golf caps on and let&#8217;s head on to this enlightening journey. Tune in and get ready to swing your way to success! Main Topics (00:03) Improve Golf Game Through Body Mechanics Dr Zach Cutler shares his golf background and how he helps patients improve their game through body care. (10:01) Chiropractic for Golfers at Learning Center Sports chiropractic improves golf game by incorporating physical health and wellness for kids and adults at Family Golf and Learning Center. (23:45) Golf and Fitness Chiropractor and physical therapist discuss combining manual therapy and exercise for golfers, and addressing posture.. (31:28) SI Joint Dysfunction and Golf Core Strength Nature&#8217;s injuries in golfers&#8217; low back and SI joint, core stabilization, breathing techniques, T-spine and hip involvement, and overspeed training for swing speed. (39:55) Golf Training and Personal Experiences Over speed training in golf can improve performance by understanding body movements, but finding time to practice can be challenging for busy professionals. (47:58) Memorable Rounds and Golf Dreams A professional golfer shares his best round, mental game, favorite movie and book, dream foursome, and advice. Follow Dr. Zach Cutler Instagram: @drzachcutler Instagram: @golfandtraininginstitute Website: GolfandTraininginstitute.com Episode Partners: LINKSOUL:&nbsp;For your 20% discount on LINKSOUL gear, go to&nbsp;18strong.com/linksoul&nbsp;or click the logo above. 1st Phorm: Try any of the 1st Phorm products with FREE SHIPPING, go to 1stphorm.com/18strong.com (By using this link, you will be entered into our Monthly 1st Phorm Giveaway!) More Cool Stuff to Check Out: To continue the conversation and ask any questions you may have, head over to the&nbsp;18STRONG Movement group on Facebook. 18STRONG Pro Shop (Get your 18STRONG gear!) 18STRONG Resources (All of the cool stuff we recommend: products, books, golf stuff, etc &#8211; and discount codes for the 18STRONG Crew) Want the full episode transcript? (click the &#8220;+&#8221; ????????) 0:00:03 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroThe 18STRONG Podcast, episode Number 357, with Dr Zach Cutler from FGL Performance.What&#8217;s up, guys? 0:00:36 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroThis week, we are in studio with Dr Zach Cutler from FGL Performance. Dr Zach is the lead chiropractor. He&#8217;s a sports performance chiropractor over at a really cool facility here in St Louis, missouri called Family Golf and Learning Center, or FGLC for short. He&#8217;s the head of FGL Performance. Dr Zach also played very high level golf playing Division 1 at Valparaiso. He made it into the 2016 US Amateur, and so he utilizes his background in golf to work with his patients, specifically golfers just like you, to help them move better, help them improve their game through their body. So in this episode, we talk exactly about that how you can improve your game by working on your body, because it&#8217;s the only thing that you use on every single shot. So today we talk with Dr Zach about building speed, gaining mobility and really ultimately swinging the club better for a longer period of time. You have to control your body for 18 holes, 36 holes or even longer, and he helps us figure out how we can do that better. So we&#8217;re going to do that right after this. Our partners over at Linksoul have been providing us with the best apparel for both on the course and off the course, from polos to t-shirts like the one I have on right now. Everything that they have is meant to be worn from the golf course to wherever you&#8217;re going next, whether that be casual, whether that be to the beach, there&#8217;s all different options over there. So go to 18strong.com slash Linksoul. You&#8217;ll get 20% off of anything in your cart over on Linksoul&#8217;s website. So again, 18strong.com, slash Linksoul for our favorite brand of apparel, for anything on the golf course and off. Now let&#8217;s get to this week&#8217;s interview, dr Zach Cutler. Welcome to the 18strong podcast. 0:02:24 &#8211; Dr. Zach CutlerI appreciate it. Thanks for having me. 0:02:26 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroYeah, for sure. So this has been a little bit of a long time coming. We met a few weeks or months ago and you&#8217;re doing some really cool things over at Family Golf and Learning Center that we&#8217;ll get to talking about. But let&#8217;s talk a little bit about your background in just golf athletics. I know you grew up playing a lot of hockey. Did you play more hockey or more golf when you were growing up? 0:02:46 &#8211; Dr. Zach CutlerGrowing up it was more hockey. My dad, most of my family, is Canadian. Hockey growing up was a sport and same with my brother, so played hockey for the most part of the childhood and then gradually golf into it and over at Wing Haven Country Club, right over here. 0:03:03 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroWhat level of hockey did you end up playing Like? How late did you play through high school? 0:03:07 &#8211; Dr. Zach CutlerYeah, so I played until sophomore year of high school and it was a central states team through St Louis Selects. They&#8217;re called a kind of transition into car show AAA now, and so it wasn&#8217;t quite at that AAA level but just in between that double AAA level. So I met a lot of good people through that program, but also a lot of those players were golfers as well so it was a good mesh. 0:03:33 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroGotcha. So your golf career then started just playing with your brothers, your dad, and just kind of grew from there. 0:03:41 &#8211; Dr. Zach CutlerYeah, so golf grew up. My grandparents lived in Branson and so they were members of the course down there. So my brother and I we would go out on their golf car playing holes after in the evening and learning golf that way and my grandpa was a huge part of giving me into golf and really just kind of grew from there. You know, every time we&#8217;re down there playing, and then gradually transition to junior golf programs and then to some local events. And you know, just led to one thing another. 0:04:14 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroSo then played in high school and then ended up going to Valparaiso and playing Division 1? 0:04:18 &#8211; Dr. Zach CutlerYes, so with high school Timberland High School, over in Winsville, and from there in 2013 we won the state championship. So that was a great experience with the guys. And then from there I committed to Valpo, played four years of small D1 school in Northwest Indiana up there, and that was a great experience. You know, I had a small win my freshman year you know some good golfers Division 1 program up there. And then, yeah, 2016 was able to come back down here at Old Hickory golf course and qualified for the US Amateur that summer and kind of a crazy ride to get there through that qualifier, but it was fun. And then later, I think it was July or August, and it was the US Am and just a good experience for sure. 0:05:17 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroAnd that was Oakland Hills. 0:05:19 &#8211; Dr. Zach CutlerOakland Hills Country Club up in Michigan. So two courses and I think just outside of Detroit, maybe up there, and it was a great layout, great course. 0:05:33 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroSo what was it like going into that setting? Obviously a very big deal to make it to that setting, that level. Were you nervous? Were you excited? All of the above then how did you end up playing that week? 0:05:46 &#8211; Dr. Zach CutlerYeah, so I&#8217;ll kind of start at the qualifier. So first round wasn&#8217;t too good. It was a 77 and the last round ended up shooting 666 and got into a playoff and three guys and that actually took eight holes. So it was a long second day and I got that second spot and from there I didn&#8217;t really know what I got myself into. In regards to the US Am like I always try to qualify for that. Everyone in the area try to qualify for that if you&#8217;re an Am and then you don&#8217;t really know until you&#8217;re there. When you&#8217;re there, it&#8217;s really neat how structured and how everything is set up at this US Am. It&#8217;s so professionally set up and I was nervous when we were there you had the head of the USGA that was there at the time and going through and seeing all these really well known amateurs playing in this event and a couple well known ones I mean Skychefler, colin Morkawa, were in that and some high end names right now in the PGA Tour, which is really cool and it shows that it made it to that level, made it to that tournament, and so the nerves on the first tee were high, for sure, but gradually sunk into it a little bit, didn&#8217;t play too well, but great experience and it just shows you where your golf game needs to be to play at that level. And that experience has really helped me where I&#8217;m at now with my profession and helping golfers now. 0:07:19 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroSo metal play is how many days is it? Three days in the US Am, and then you make it to match play. 0:07:27 &#8211; Dr. Zach CutlerTwo short play days. And then top 64 and I think it was plus one or plus two for the 36 holes. There were two courses, north and south. One was the championship course, the other one was a shorter, tighter course. Out there and I think there was like 17 guys for maybe six spots to get the last few spots for the match play. So it was, I mean, a lot of players. I mean there&#8217;s 312 players or so that make it and then only 64 go to match play so you know. But you know, even though not making the match play, it was a great experience for the guys that I played with, but also, you know, guys that were on the putting green, the locker room, all that, so met a lot of people through it as well. 0:08:11 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroWho ended up winning that year? 0:08:12 &#8211; Dr. Zach CutlerIt was Curtis Luck, so Brad Dahlke came and runner up and then I&#8217;m not really sure how Moira Kawa and some other guys did that year, but you know it was some good playing for sure. 0:08:27 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroSo you mentioned that. You know that experience and just playing collegiate level golf has really kind of helped shape your career. What made you decide to go into the chiropractic school you went here at Logan. 0:08:39 &#8211; Dr. Zach CutlerYeah, right. 0:08:41 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroAnd did you always know that you wanted to kind of get in the medical world, or is that something that just kind of gradually, you know you worked out through the years in college? 0:08:50 &#8211; Dr. Zach CutlerSo I&#8217;ll kind of start off. In high school I was definitely driven in regards to the golf aspect well, golf and hockey, but gradually just into golf and so I was very focused. I really wanted to take that as far as possible. As I was in college playing both golf and the academic side, I realized I really enjoyed the body biomechanics. I want to help people and I felt like and I wanted to work with athletes as well and I felt like, originally, physical therapy was the way to go. Nowadays we&#8217;re becoming very similar PTs and chiropractors and but the entry into schooling is a little different. So I was actually originally taking classes to go into PT school and try to get into those and transition where I met a few guys that actually were in here down in St Louis that then go into Logan and I&#8217;m like you know what, it&#8217;s close to home. I shadowed some physical therapists, some chiropractors. I love both professions and just thought you know this is the route you know to go, being close to home here at Logan, and I&#8217;m glad I went that route for sure. 0:10:00 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroThat&#8217;s awesome. I was expecting you to kind of say that maybe you had an injury that you know like that&#8217;s a traditional physical therapist story. 0:10:07 &#8211; Dr. Zach CutlerI had an injury. 0:10:08 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroI went to rehab. I saw what they did there. I thought it was kind of cool and I want to work with athletes. But you know, to have that athletic background and wanting to go into that, seems to make. 0:10:19 &#8211; Dr. Zach CutlerI mean perfect sense, yeah, really not a whole lot of injuries growing up. And that&#8217;s the thing where you know the patients golfers I help with right now and not just golfers, some other athletes as well the routes and my experience that I&#8217;ve been through to kind of get away from those injuries, and along with just nutrition as well, along with the training, along with the treatment and management, injury management and it&#8217;s been really helpful for myself and I&#8217;m trying to help people as well with that. 0:10:50 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroSo you work at one of the coolest places here in St Louis Family Golf and Learning Center. So first, just for people that are listening, we had Adam Betts on the show a long time ago, really right when Family Golf and Learning Center was getting ready to be opened up. But tell us about you know what&#8217;s going on over there, what the place is, because I think that you know when you hear that name you don&#8217;t really know what it is, but it really is like a premier spot for golf in St Louis. 0:11:20 &#8211; Dr. Zach CutlerSo family golf and learning center. It&#8217;s a great spot. Like you said, it has a par three course, it has two hitting bays, grass hitting bays on the side. It has a double tier range, along with a massive putting and chipping area. Not only that, where I&#8217;m inside it has a couple track bands where you can really look at your numbers, look at in and out speed, spin all that and then upstairs you have the fitness center where my office is located, helping with the physical aspect of the golfers game. So at this facility for really the average golfer, trying to get the full spectrum of the teaching pros, the chiropractic, pt, rehab side and trying to engulf the amateur golfer with every aspect that these pro and tour players have, and it&#8217;s just a perfect facility for that. 0:12:13 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroDid you ever go there before it was taken over and redone and everything? 0:12:18 &#8211; Dr. Zach CutlerSo I&#8217;ve seen pictures. I&#8217;ve never been there, so Adam&#8217;s done a great thing to this place, so it&#8217;s a good spot right now. 0:12:27 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroYeah, if you were to see it. I mean, think of kind of your traditional old school driving range two tiers but small little shack and basically just a flat surface driving range. It does have a nine hole par three course out there. But then Adam the new owner came in and has just done so much tore down the old building, built a new with 10,000 square foot facility. It&#8217;s just, it&#8217;s top notch. And every time I go there so my son goes there now my son&#8217;s 15 years old, him and his cousins and buddies hey, can we go out on a Friday night and go up to family golf? When it&#8217;s 45 degrees out you can go inside and to the hitting bays or the heated bays. But it&#8217;s cool like there&#8217;s so many kids out there practicing and I think that there&#8217;s so few places and I think this probably goes for the states in general there&#8217;s unless you belong to a club, it&#8217;s hard to like go get real practicing and then to have a facility where you can go practice your short game and then you can go inside to hitting bays and then to take it another level and have somebody like you there where you know you can come and get assessed, you can come and get a training program, you can have doctors at work on you. It&#8217;s just it&#8217;s pretty cool to see that. You know it&#8217;s like the pros have their team, their medical staff, their, and you guys are kind of doing that over there. 0:13:50 &#8211; Dr. Zach CutlerTrying to hit every angle for you know the average golfer that&#8217;s in the area for sure. So you know it&#8217;s really neat too with the PGA teaching instructors there and, like you said, the kids, and it&#8217;s every age and skill of a golfer that&#8217;s there practicing and they&#8217;re able to get the instruction side but also able to get their body, their movements assessed and you know, like I said, attack all angles. 0:14:16 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroSo I&#8217;d like to maybe break out into kind of two different groups, because you know we&#8217;re talking about some of the kids and then I think that a big demographic of our audience is, you know, guys like me I won&#8217;t throw you in the old man bus, you know, 27 years old, but you know us guys that are in our 40, 35, 40, 45 and beyond. We have our own issues that I think we&#8217;ll probably talk even a little more extensively on. But curious, when you&#8217;re working with the kids, you know, because typically you think of chiropractors, you think you know a guy that has back pain goes to a chiropractor, right? Well, you&#8217;re a chiropractor sports chiropractor that works with golfers, works with a lot of kids. What does that look like when you bring a kid in and what are some of the reasons why? You know somebody that&#8217;s listening, maybe would want their you know, 14 year old to come see somebody like you, even if maybe they don&#8217;t have pain or discomfort or things like that. 0:15:10 &#8211; Dr. Zach CutlerYeah, so you know well, 13, 14, 15 year olds just entering high school. A lot of the golfers I work with they want to. You know they want to hit the ball further nowadays. Definitely that&#8217;s part of the game now hitting the ball further as they&#8217;re entering high school. The big aspect is just getting stronger. They&#8217;re gonna naturally get a little stronger as they get older, but strength is key and for those golfers we work on basic body motions and movements and you know we&#8217;re not doing a whole lot of weight here but we&#8217;re gradually stepping it up, progressing forward with strength, and so those game plans are a little bit different than someone that&#8217;s 35, 40 years plus that has some other past medical history going on. So, like you said, these golfers that are younger usually don&#8217;t have a whole lot of past medical history there and there trying to hit the ball further, get a little stronger and improve speed, power, strength, time, speed. So working on strength, working on speed, you&#8217;re gonna improve power and that&#8217;s the primary focus for those golfers and we&#8217;re already seeing, you know, huge improvement for the golfers I work with right now. So kind of veering into the 35, 40 year old plus golfers that I work with all skill levels. That&#8217;s where past medical history takes a little bit of a bigger play into the picture. So with the start of every session we go through past medical history and figure out, you know, any limitations before we go through the assessment. And that&#8217;s huge for the treatment side but that&#8217;s also huge for developing the program and personalized program. And then I can lead into a little bit the assessment. So with the assessment I look at mobility, I look at stability, I look at power and then I also take a look at their swing as well. So those four components we combine with these golfers goals to create a personalized program. So most of the goals are hitting the ball further and pain-free golf. Those are the biggest ones. But some people want to improve this mobility and we kind of veer that program towards what they want. So in regards to golfers, with the assessment we figure out mobility limitations, where what is moving well with the body, what&#8217;s not moving well, and that will also be able to tell us what are the stable parts of the body as well. Power assessment we&#8217;ll do a warm-up, we&#8217;ll look at upper body power, core power and lower body power. A lot of times you can kind of with doing this with a lot of people. You can tell right off the bat in regards if we need to improve different areas of power. The last component is the swing aspect. So we&#8217;ll look at some swing speed, but we&#8217;ll also look at how the movement of their swing looks. So I can compare it to the assessment and like okay, so for instance, they don&#8217;t have external rotation of their right shoulder for right hand to golfer. If we look at their swing, they&#8217;re bringing the club back here. They have no external rotation. They&#8217;re gonna be very laid off low, maybe come from the inside out and little aspects like that really correlate and it all makes sense and describing this to the golfer afterwards and they understand where I&#8217;m coming from, what we&#8217;re seeing in the assessment and what the clear picture of the game plan is moving forward. 0:18:29 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroThat&#8217;s awesome when you bring them in and you&#8217;re looking at those things and, speaking from my own personal experience, it&#8217;s really cool when you can kind of show them like, hey, here&#8217;s what we see on your physical screen and maybe even before you do any kind of a swing assessment or anything like, here&#8217;s what we&#8217;re seeing Now, let&#8217;s just see how that plays out a little bit later, if it does at all, and then, like you just start to see like these light bulbs turn on in their head. Are there any kind of like low hanging fruit or low hanging fruit or like really common things that you tend to see in that demographic? Are there certain parts of the body that you kind of have seen Like, yeah, there&#8217;s a lot of patterns here. 0:19:08 &#8211; Dr. Zach CutlerDefinitely so. If someone comes in, for instance, with SI joint dysfunction or SI joint pain, a lot of times, most of the time, early extension is a big aspect of the SI joints so they&#8217;re not able to fully turn their pelvis. A lot of times they try to stand up or really extend their golf swing. So early extension is huge. So pelvic rotation is part of the assessment that I see probably failed the most and I don&#8217;t like the word fail. It&#8217;s a limitation that we can improve. It&#8217;s not going to be a fail all the time. We&#8217;re there to improve it and have the body move the most efficient as possible for the golfer. So I would say hip mobility. I primarily look at internal rotation. Just with, for instance, a right hand golfer, the backswing right hip internal follow through, you&#8217;re posting up on that left side. So internal rotation is huge. I find limitation with a lot of people with internal rotation. That could be so with the assessment, two different types. So, for instance, if we&#8217;re looking at lower quarter rotation, which is internal rotation of the hips, if someone&#8217;s not able to perform that motion, I actually check passively as well to make sure if there&#8217;s a true limitation in that motion. 0:20:23 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroSo for instance Can you explain that a little bit, what that means? Passively versus. 0:20:28 &#8211; Dr. Zach CutlerVersus active. So active is with the lower quarter rotation, the patient. I&#8217;m not doing anything. The patient will actively try to rotate their hip into internal rotation and there&#8217;s a specific movement for that with the assessment. So they&#8217;re actively moving their muscles, contracting their muscles to get in that motion. So I assess where they&#8217;re able to go with that degree wise and then on the table, my chiropractic table, I check passively so that the patient&#8217;s not moving their leg at all. I&#8217;m passively moving their leg into that internal rotation and I compare if it&#8217;s the same or if it&#8217;s different. So for instance, if the golfer actively say, goes you know 40 degrees of internal rotation and I&#8217;m able to passly go into 60 degrees, then we know they don&#8217;t necessarily have a limitation. They have a mind-body connection limitation where I love those, where you know, do specific movements, golfers really able to get into those motion right off the bat, great. And then, for instance, stops, a case where if it&#8217;s 40 degrees of internal rotation, passively only able to get to 40, they have a true limitation and most of the time it&#8217;s muscular related, but sometimes it could be osteology and the bone where you know it&#8217;s gonna be a little bit tougher to get that internal rotation. Just wanna go into that a little bit. 0:21:47 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroSo, yeah, yeah, I think that&#8217;s really important to distinguish is the fact that you can actually have the range of motion in your body, but you&#8217;re not executing it in your activity that you&#8217;re doing right. So, in your golf swing. So like you physically can do it. So if Dr Zach has you laying on the table and he&#8217;s able to rotate your leg to 60 degrees, but in your swing you&#8217;re only rotating your pelvis or your hip to that short or 40 degrees you&#8217;re like hey you have it, we just don&#8217;t know how to turn it on yet. So then let&#8217;s distinguish between what you would do in a situation like that. So in one situation you&#8217;ve got somebody. They&#8217;re just stuck Like right. They don&#8217;t have that full range of motion, they&#8217;re at 40 degrees, they&#8217;re stuck, but we want to get them to 50, 60, whatever it might be. What does it look like for that patient or client versus somebody that you&#8217;re like? No, you got it. We just need to kind of figure out how to make you use it, definitely so, the two different avenues. 0:22:47 &#8211; Dr. Zach CutlerSo in regards to the treatment side for a golfer that is truly limited in that internal rotation, this can be any range of motion shoulder mobility, it could be other aspects or parts of the body as well, but just, for instance, with the hip, I would do more soft tissue therapy. I would really work on the muscles and the tissue in that region to help them improve and loosen up that region. And with that, though, I would add in specific movements to help engage and move into that internal rotation, to add into it For golfers that just have a mind-body connection limitation, where they can get in that motion but they&#8217;re not used to really getting in that full range of motion. That&#8217;s where really just specific exercises and movements can help them get there. So that&#8217;s where I say it&#8217;s a little bit better when people have that range of motion but aren&#8217;t fully utilizing it. We can get them in there pretty quickly. 0:23:44 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroRight, and that&#8217;s where. So there&#8217;s always this talk about golf and fitness and where do the exercises come in and how much should be golf-ish and how much should not be. But I think this is the exact specific point where being able to identify, like, the reason we&#8217;re doing this exercise, the reason we&#8217;re going into this motion, is not just because we want to make it look like a golf swing, it&#8217;s because we&#8217;re trying to get your body to be able to feel this position or move in this position Exactly, but knowing that you have that motion like, okay, we can do this. It&#8217;s not just let&#8217;s grab a cable and let&#8217;s start rotating, because I&#8217;m a golf fitness guy and that&#8217;s what we do. We just rotate, right. 0:24:25 &#8211; Dr. Zach CutlerYeah. 0:24:27 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroSo I would think that the other individual that has the limited hip or they have the actual physical limitation. This, to me, would be where, like your expertise, really makes such a big difference for some of these people. 0:24:43 &#8211; Dr. Zach CutlerYes, definitely so. Just knowing the anatomy in that region as well, and a few other soft tissue techniques play well in these cases for sure, and this is again, it&#8217;s in combination of the exercise portion as well. So that&#8217;s where I like to utilize both chiropractic care, soft tissue therapy past modality and these techniques. There&#8217;s a few techniques I can name, but all of them are trying to. They have the same goal in mind. So, yeah, so. 0:25:15 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroHow do we so? First of all, you know when people think chiropractor or at least that&#8217;s changing now as far as, like they used to think chiropractor oh, crack your neck, snap your back and move on. Come back next week right. So do you do much of the how would you describe it to the layperson? Subluxation, or. 0:25:38 &#8211; Dr. Zach CutlerManual adjustment, manual therapy or manual manipulation, so adjustment would be easy term. So for instance, for a golfer, if we&#8217;re doing an assessment T-spine rotation so thoracic spine rotation we&#8217;re looking for at least past 45 degrees bilaterally. If someone&#8217;s coming in and they have no past medical history of the thoracic spine, everything&#8217;s green light, no red flags, and they&#8217;re limited in T-spine rotation. Well, that&#8217;s where I&#8217;ll combine my chiropractic care knowledge, chiropractic knowledge along with exercise to help improve that. So we would adjust T-spine, we would go in and do a short little assessment of chiropractic wise, but our goal is to help gain a little bit more motion in those joints. So the spines made up of many different joints that could connect bone to bone, basically with the disc in there, and if we can create more motion in those joints along with these exercises, it&#8217;s going to have the optimal outcome and benefit for the golfer. 0:26:36 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroAnd that&#8217;s the key right. It is creating motion but then backing up, backing up and fortifying it with your ability to strengthen, and I think that that&#8217;s where you know there&#8217;s. It&#8217;s great we have a chiro and a PT in the same room together and we do get along right and people think that natural enemies. But I think that that&#8217;s kind of initially where some of the differences occurred, where, like, the PT&#8217;s were always kind of the exercise rehab. You guys were always a lot more of the manual therapy and the adjustments. And now what I&#8217;m seeing is there a lot more crossover, not so much as far as the adjustments from the physical therapy side and again, I&#8217;ve been out of the clinical world for a while but it&#8217;s cool to go to these continuing education courses and meet so many different chiro&#8217;s and PT&#8217;s that have such similar ways of thinking and going through the same you know, education to really learn how the body&#8217;s working and you know just seeing what you&#8217;re doing with the combination of the manual therapy and being able to first of all relieve ailments but then, you know, really kind of utilize those skills and then back it up and work on strengthening and training and doing those things. So I assume a lot of your clients patients will you know, go home with some sort of homework or exercises or posture drills, or you know what are some of the biggest things that you&#8217;re constantly working on, and maybe for the kids and for the adults. 0:28:02 &#8211; Dr. Zach CutlerWell, number one for sure. Nowadays, everyone looking down at their phone anterior head carriage, rolled shoulders forward or anterior, and so a lot of postural exercises. So it&#8217;ll be chin retractions, it&#8217;ll be working on the rhomboids or the posterior muscles to help with those with the posture. So and I see that across the board for sure, and a lot of kids in school now too, sitting down hunched over I need to do a better job, I think everyone everyone does. And that&#8217;s where simple movements like this that I give golfers, patients and just getting on them daily will really help in the long run. 0:28:43 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroSo the consistency is so important. Definitely. I want to take just a second to thank our new partner, which I&#8217;m really excited to announce is 1st Phorm. 1st Phorm is a company that is here in St Louis, based in St Louis. It&#8217;s a nutritional company that is doing incredible things in the world of nutrition and one of the reasons that we decided to partner with 1st Phorm is obviously we&#8217;re very impressed with their dedication to their products and the quality of their products. But really it&#8217;s the dedication to them and them helping their customers get real results Aside from just the products. We got a chance to go and actually visit the facility again here in St Louis and really walk the halls of the corporate offices, but we got to see the manufacturing plan or the warehouse. And it&#8217;s not just a place where they&#8217;re packaging supplements and shipping them out. It&#8217;s a culture, it&#8217;s a community and you can see that amongst the employees. You can see that their culture and their core values that are not just pieces of art on their wall. They&#8217;re actually living them there and they&#8217;re helping to expand those into the community and really that&#8217;s why we partnered with 1st Phorm. Obviously, their products are incredible. Otherwise we wouldn&#8217;t suggest them either. We use them on a regular basis, so you&#8217;re going to be hearing a lot more about their products and what they can do for your fitness, what they can do for your golf game. The protein powders, the multivitamins, the protein sticks, the hydration packets All of those products we&#8217;re going to highlight in future episodes. But we just wanted to really celebrate our new partnership with 1st Phorm. You can go to their website, firstformcom forward slash 18STRONG, and we&#8217;re going to be doing a giveaway every single month with anybody that buys through that link. You can go to FirstFormcom that&#8217;s P-H-O-R-M dot com. Forward slash 18STRONG. That&#8217;ll take you directly to their website and you can check their whole suite of products, including some of their fitness apparel and anything that&#8217;s purchased over there. You&#8217;re going to be enrolled into our list for our giveaway. Let&#8217;s talk a little back pain, because obviously chiropractic and back pain kind of go hand in hand. What do you see, especially with the golfers, as some of the biggest reasons why golfers tend to have back pain? 0:31:01 &#8211; Dr. Zach CutlerYeah, so two components. So in regards to putting the T in the ground, in regards to looking at putts, the lumbar spines and the flexion are, I guess, tucked underneath where you&#8217;re putting a little bit more pressure on the disc. That&#8217;s where you know you could have some disc bowls, potentially disherniation later on, and I see that with a good amount of golfers. Also, though, the second aspect would be the rotational aspect. So usually the trail SI in the low back, that bone back there for right hand to golfer, where you&#8217;re pinching it off through your swing, we see a lot of SI joint dysfunction. So there&#8217;s different parts though. So especially for SI joint, there&#8217;s hypo mobile and hyper mobile. So you got to kind of figure out which one&#8217;s what and then it would lead down different path for treatment. So you see, you know, looking at different parts of the spine, I would say a lot of times it&#8217;s more low back as opposed to just mid back and cervical spine discomfort with golfers. A lot of times it has to do with core. Stabilization is huge. I know a lot of people think when I say that they&#8217;re like, oh, the core is up here, not back there. If you&#8217;re able to really strengthen this region and I&#8217;m not talking about crunches all the time, isometric work where you&#8217;re in the neutral position, but still strengthening that core. That&#8217;s really going to help the whole torso and help that low back. So isometric dead bugs, bird, dogs and people ask as well. They&#8217;re very simple at first, but there&#8217;s many ways to improve and make it a lot tougher. And then breathing is a big aspect of it as well. So you want to breathe through the stomach as opposed to just breathing right through the chest. You want to make sure you&#8217;re expanding throughout the whole region here, not sucking in like a six pack. You want to actually expand out and really brace that region. So just veering off that, I would say isometric core exercises are huge for golfers with low back pain. 0:33:04 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroGoing to the breathing a little bit, because that&#8217;s become something that I&#8217;ve really gotten fascinated with as far as how that can impact your bracing. It can actually impact almost like decompressing the spine a little bit, if done right. What are ways that you have people incorporate the breathing into maybe your training programs and what are some of the other benefits? Or how does it actually work to help brace the back as well as kind of decompress? 0:33:32 &#8211; Dr. Zach CutlerYeah, so it&#8217;s called intraabdominal pressure. And when, for instance, someone&#8217;s in a dead bug position where they&#8217;re on their back legs up and they&#8217;re just bringing one leg out, one arm out, we really want to focus on the belly, breathing outward, so almost pretend this is a cylinder instead of trying to suck in like a six pack. You actually want to feel like you&#8217;re expanding out and bracing the whole region. So a lot of times when you&#8217;re during impact of the golf swing, the pelvis slowly tilts underneath itself and the posterior tilt. Having that brace in there is super important to help support that spine during impact and throughout the golf swing. 0:34:10 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroSo are you trying to hold that pressure in there as you&#8217;re swinging through? 0:34:16 &#8211; Dr. Zach CutlerYeah, so usually the motions in regards to we do some kettlebell work, we do some med ball work, obviously the dead bugs and the isometric core incorporating that intraabdominal pressure is huge and we see huge relief and really not just from low back, si joint dysfunction, you know, and overall this could be for the golfer but this is for really any athlete in any sport. Rotational sports huge. 0:34:48 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroSo what about? Something that I found is the fact that you know we a lot of people will present with back pain and maybe they even have something on an MRI where you know you see some sort of disc herniation or something. But when you really dig a little deeper, it&#8217;s not necessarily the, it&#8217;s the result but, it&#8217;s maybe not the root cause and it might be coming from other parts of the body that, for one reason or another, where are some of the bigger pieces that you found? Like Greg Rose from TPI always says, like your low back is like the big brother, like other things are working, so the big brother takes on the load, and so you&#8217;re ending up loading your back in funky ways in your golf swing and your workouts because you know other things aren&#8217;t doing their job. 0:35:33 &#8211; Dr. Zach CutlerExactly so. The low back definitely takes the brunt of the force in regards to so if someone, a golfer, is not able to fully rotate in their T-spine, if someone has limited hip mobility, a lot of times the area it&#8217;s that low back that&#8217;s trying to take that and counteract that force and take the brunt of that force. If we improve areas above and below, that usually helps improve that motion and improve that discomfort in that low back. And that&#8217;s not only just low back, that&#8217;s lower extremity as well, upper extremity, so, for instance, the legs. If you have some knee pain, okay, let&#8217;s take a look at the foot, let&#8217;s take a look at the hip, not just that source. 0:36:09 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroSo yeah, yeah, kind of looking at the whole picture not just one or the other. 0:36:14 &#8211; Dr. Zach CutlerAnd that kind of leads into why I look at the swing as well. After the assessment. I want to get a picture of how they&#8217;re actively swinging the golf club, as opposed to just doing a simple move. 0:36:28 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroSo I think you mentioned earlier like one of the biggest things that most of us want is more distance right, and distance comes from some more speed. What are ways that you are helping some of the golfers get more speed in their golf swing? Obviously there&#8217;s tools like the Super Speed Club, the stack system and just the overspeed training devices, which can be very, very beneficial. But from more the body perspective, your expertise perspective, what are some of the things that people can do and again that population of guys like me 45, 50, where you kind of expect like, hey, my swing speed is going to go down, but you need to get off the tee box. You&#8217;re like man. 0:37:09 &#8211; Dr. Zach CutlerI used to be able to swing faster. Hit it further. So exactly so when you&#8217;re getting a 50-year-old, 50-years-old and plus more past medical history tends to come about. So when we&#8217;re trying to improve different areas, you have to take in consideration Instead of you might not be able to do the standard motion that will help improve this aspect, you might have to compensate and veer around it to help and not lead towards that past medical history. So, for instance, with speed, a lot of band work and, like I said, I focus on the upper body, core and lower body for speed. So a lot of band work for upper body, if you want to do pushes and pulls or presses and pulls work in both sides. And then with core, I like to do a lot of banded isolation or oscillation movements where you&#8217;re really engaging that core and trying to keep the body stable while moving as fast as possible. It&#8217;s a very minimal motion that is actually well done by a lot of golfers I work with, even with past medical history, since we&#8217;re not really working the joint, it&#8217;s more of just strictly core speed. There&#8217;s many others you incorporate into your program, but I would say the biggest thing for myself and working with a lot of members that are 50-years-old and plus, it&#8217;s that past medical history aspect. So it&#8217;s very easy coming someone in where they don&#8217;t have any hit history with shoulder injury, hip injury, back and we can go right into the motions. I want, as opposed to if we have knee replacements, hip replacements, maybe some back, maybe there&#8217;s hardware in the spine fusion, so you&#8217;re going to have to veer around that to still try to accomplish that same goal. 0:38:55 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroDo you can sway any of those people from any of the overspeed training devices or just kind of teach them how to maybe minimize what their issue or injury might impact? 0:39:09 &#8211; Dr. Zach CutlerYeah. So in regards to, for instance, a gentleman with some hardware, lower lumbar spine, where we want to have a little bit more rotation in the spine, the hardware leads into more of the T-spine where rotation is going to be a factor. So we&#8217;re trying to improve we&#8217;re not going to improve T-spine rotation because there&#8217;s hardware right in there and we&#8217;re not trying to affect anything with that. So we&#8217;re going to look at different areas where we&#8217;ll work out maybe a little bit more shoulder mobility, a little bit more lat flexibility to get more depth in the backswing, maybe a little bit more internal rotation to that right hip for the right hand golfer. So we&#8217;re looking at we can actually compensate a little bit on different areas to improve the same motion or the same goal. And what was the question again? 0:39:58 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroOh, just regarding like over speed training and helping people kind of figure out whether that it&#8217;s right for them. It&#8217;s not right for them. I don&#8217;t know how you feel about it. We approach it. Everybody approaches it a little differently. 0:40:10 &#8211; Dr. Zach CutlerYeah, I think it depends on the type of golfer as well and their goals as well. I mean there&#8217;s some people that going through the assessment, everyone moves just a little different length than everyone else and so and it depends on two like past sports they play as well. It might be easier route to get into more of the speed training as opposed to someone that hasn&#8217;t really been involved with any sort of power or speed work before. So it might be an easier transition for some people. It might be a little slower from other people and we kind of see how the body really incorporates around that. 0:40:46 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroSo that&#8217;s a good point. I mean, we&#8217;ve I&#8217;m sure you&#8217;ve had different people that you know. Some are like super coordinated athletic, some or not, and you can&#8217;t do the same things with those people you also made the note about. You know, like, if something is, we know that something stuck, like the T-spine that has hardware and sometimes compensation can be a good thing, right, yes, but knowing where that should come from? 0:41:11 &#8211; Dr. Zach CutlerDefinitely exactly. So, of course, if we&#8217;re limited in T-spine, we want to work on movements for that T-spine because predominantly that motion is rotation in the thoracic spine and, like you said, if there&#8217;s any hardware in there that leads into these regions and we can&#8217;t improve that range of motion, there can be good compensation on. Okay, let&#8217;s, let&#8217;s take a look at the shoulder, let&#8217;s take a look at the, the lat, and see if we can get a little more depth in that backswing, not just from the T-spine, let&#8217;s try to get it up with the shoulders. And that&#8217;s where it depends on the person. If they had past shoulder history, medical history, then we&#8217;ll have to take it step by step and see what we can do. So, yeah, All right. 0:41:51 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroSo how&#8217;s your game these days? And you&#8217;ve been playing a little more competitive stuff and kind of getting back in the in the game. 0:41:58 &#8211; Dr. Zach CutlerAnd so you know I&#8217;m playing college and then went to Logan University for almost four years, three and a half years, and so played here and there a little bit more not as hectic, you know, not not qualifying all this stuff. So more for fun golf and getting back into it now. Currently, metropolitan Golf Association and Missouri Golf Association hold a lot of great events in the area, in the metro area, along with the whole state of Missouri. Thank you, yeah, getting back into it, sitting at a 0.3 right now. So, you know, trying to get back a little bit better. But you know I&#8217;m pleased, you know, and that&#8217;s for two the golf side of it as well, then the golf experience and incorporating that with my chiropractic knowledge, working with these golfers has been huge and people really, really enjoy that. 0:42:52 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroSo yeah, I mean just being able to. Well, first of all, I&#8217;m sure that your clients are excited to kind of watch what you&#8217;re doing. You know when you go out and play like they&#8217;re excited to see how you did, but you know being able to talk the language, being able to understand what they&#8217;re talking about. When they go out and they come back and tell you how great they shot or how terrible they shot, what would you say are some of the biggest things that have impacted your golf game from your personal career, knowing what you do. Now you know maybe what would you have liked to instilled in younger Zach that you now know and you&#8217;re like, hey, this is a big deal and this is either helping or that was hurting. 0:43:29 &#8211; Dr. Zach CutlerDefinitely so. When I was in high school, leading into college, I definitely wish I went through this TPI process and really got to know how my body moves and what exactly you know what a personalized program for myself would look like. I wasn&#8217;t as knowledgeable back then, with that Understandable high school going into college not really sure what I&#8217;m doing. But now, knowing all this and continuing to learn, I&#8217;m incorporating into my workout programs and I&#8217;m incorporating into my golf game and you know I see results. So the biggest thing right now in college, my driving wasn&#8217;t the most, it wasn&#8217;t the best aspect of my game, it was more a short game. Now I&#8217;m actually incorporating a little bit more power moves into my workouts and hitting the ball actually further now than I did ever I did in college so, and it just makes it more exciting and more fun as well. 0:44:28 &#8211; Jeff Pelizzaroso what did your training program in college look like? Did you guys have a dedicated coach for the team? 0:44:34 &#8211; Dr. Zach CutlerWe had a strength and conditioning coach, not specifically for golf, it was a combination of a few other teams in college, so we did a lot of core work, we did a lot of legs, but it wasn&#8217;t totally designed for golf and that&#8217;s where I wish, you know, the knowledge I know now I could really help out. Thankfully, since then they&#8217;ve kind of re-amped the system in their strength and conditioning program that it&#8217;s veered more around TPI and exactly on what each golfer needs, and the team has really improved even since I&#8217;ve been there. So it&#8217;s really cool to see this stuff works. I incorporated my workouts and my routine and it shows results for sure. 0:45:21 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroPractice wise. Since you have this facility at your disposal pretty much, you know what does it look like. Are you able to get out and actually put some practice and time then out there. Or I mean, I know you&#8217;re running crazy with sessions and clients and stuff like that too. 0:45:34 &#8211; Dr. Zach CutlerSo a lot of people think I have all the time to practice and this and that which. It&#8217;s a great facility, but definitely busy up in the office. And during lunch I try to go down the track man&#8217;s hit some golf balls and get some numbers that way. But most of the practicing is usually done on, usually in the evenings after I&#8217;m done with work and on the weekends. But I&#8217;ll try to get out when I can, so that&#8217;s for sure. 0:46:02 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroIt&#8217;s funny. We were talking about this big Nashville trip that we have coming up and I&#8217;ve got a buddy that&#8217;s coming in from LA to go on the trip and we haven&#8217;t seen each other in a long time. I think we&#8217;ve only played golf with each other maybe once a decade ago and we&#8217;re trying to figure out. I&#8217;m like what&#8217;s your handicap? And he doesn&#8217;t have one. And I&#8217;m like all right, we gotta get you sorted out. And he&#8217;s like what&#8217;s yours? And I&#8217;m like I&#8217;m a 12. He&#8217;s like, really. I&#8217;m like I&#8217;m perfect proof that working in the world of golf doesn&#8217;t mean that you play a lot of golf. And I think that probably pull any of the instructors over at FGLC and they&#8217;ll probably all say the same thing Like we&#8217;re working here all day, the last thing we&#8217;re doing is spending a ton of time. So for all of you out there that have friends that are golf instructors or golf fitness pros like realize that many times it&#8217;s working with the golfers most of the time and rarely is it us getting out, and so hopefully we&#8217;re trying to practice what we preach, but it doesn&#8217;t always happen that way 100%, 100%. 0:46:59 &#8211; Dr. Zach CutlerSo and I wanna go back to like in regards to thankful with my golf game and getting into that where it&#8217;s been now and along the help with my family, my friends, but also Nathan Carnes, pga secretary now. He&#8217;s been a huge help with junior golf and my tournaments growing up. So he&#8217;s over here at Wing Haven Country Club and a great person and a good golfer himself, so he&#8217;s been a huge influence growing up for sure. 0:47:30 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroWhat do you have on your golf radar? Any trips, anything like that coming up soon? 0:47:34 &#8211; Dr. Zach CutlerYeah, so I have a trip with a couple golfers I work with, along with some family friends, and we&#8217;re gonna go to TPCD Run in two weekends and play there for a couple rounds and love that course, for the John Deere Classic is at not only a few hours away from here. So that&#8217;s the last really trip for this year and hopefully we can get out a little bit more next year. 0:47:59 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroCool. Do you have an epic round that you remember as like your best day on the course? You&#8217;re kind of like blackout mode and went crazy. 0:48:07 &#8211; Dr. Zach CutlerDefinitely so, actually that second round of the USAM qualifier. 0:48:11 &#8211; Jeff Pelizzaroso Good place to have it. 0:48:14 &#8211; Dr. Zach CutlerYeah, and I&#8217;ve shot 66 a couple times, but this one was definitely the best. So nine birdies, six under 66, but it kind of hurts me a little bit. Remember I double bogeyed that last hole so it was close. But you know, and that&#8217;s where the experience of that eight hole playoff I you know, looking back at it now I mean that was huge. So just the mental aspect of it and just keeping in that grind so helps me not only for golf but also for, you know, my job and work and life and everything. 0:48:47 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroSo mm-hmm Cool. All right, brother, we&#8217;re gonna finish up with our traditional questions here at 18STRONG. So first one Caddy Shaker, happy Gilmore. 0:48:55 &#8211; Dr. Zach CutlerHappy Gilmore. Yes. 0:48:57 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroHockey background young guy, that&#8217;s kind of the 100% the pattern that I typically see One of the movies you grew up watching, or A little bit, you know, not too often I actually. 0:49:09 &#8211; Dr. Zach CutlerSo yes, golf, but I&#8217;m a big miracle fan. So the hockey team there, usa, so that&#8217;s definitely a big part of it. But happy Gilmore, definitely the hockey side of it I enjoy. 0:49:22 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroSo All right, so you can pick your walkup song. What&#8217;s your walkup song to the first tee box? 0:49:28 &#8211; Dr. Zach CutlerSo growing up it was hockey locker room kind of pump up music and some rap, some EDM. So now it&#8217;s actually by, I think, drake, and a little baby wants and needs it&#8217;s called, so you should play it sometime. It&#8217;s a good one so. 0:49:45 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroI&#8217;ll have to ask my 15 year old son, yep yep, to play that with him. Side question I didn&#8217;t prep you with this one Hockey. Being a hockey player, what&#8217;s your favorite hockey movie of all time? 0:49:54 &#8211; Dr. Zach CutlerHockey movie. Oh a miracle. Yeah, that&#8217;s for sure. Sorry, you said that, Yep. 0:49:59 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroAny, have you ever seen the movie Youngblood? 0:50:02 &#8211; Dr. Zach CutlerI haven&#8217;t. I&#8217;ve heard of it. Okay, all right, I have homework for you, okay, okay. 0:50:06 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroSounds good. Sorry, I had. Youngblood on the mind and I knew you just said miracle, but I basically wanted to get to Youngblood. 0:50:13 &#8211; Dr. Zach CutlerYep, yep. 0:50:14 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroAll right. Is there a book that has meant a lot to you, something that you&#8217;ve read and that you&#8217;ve learned a lot of lessons from, or that you tend to really recommend to people? Golf wise, life wise. 0:50:25 &#8211; Dr. Zach CutlerYeah, so this would definitely be more life wise, not just golf wise, and I think you can take different aspects of it of how you want, but a pretty well-known book Rich Dad, poor Dad and there&#8217;s so many different aspects of that book that you can take away into your own life and anyone&#8217;s life and it really opens up your eyes and your mind about things and I think that can really help you move forward and keep progressing onward. 0:50:53 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroCool, still trying to get my son to read that one. 0:50:57 &#8211; Dr. Zach CutlerSo it&#8217;s huge now, audiobooks I read the book, the hard cover of it, but audiobooks now driving around pop it on in the car and that&#8217;s been huge for me as well. 0:51:09 &#8211; Jeff Pelizzaroso road trips huge Ride along university all right. All right. If you could pick a dream for some anybody in the world past present, who would that be? 0:51:19 &#8211; Dr. Zach CutlerYeah, I would probably do. I would probably have Rory Macaroy, tiger and my dad. 0:51:28 &#8211; Jeff Pelizzaroprobably would be the four of us, yeah, so All right, so say, we have the 18STRONG Jet, we&#8217;ve got it fueled up, ready to go. Your bucket list course that you&#8217;re like, I&#8217;m going there today. 0:51:41 &#8211; Dr. Zach CutlerMm-hmm. So it&#8217;s actually believe it or not like a tough one between, and pretty common, st Andrews or Augusta, so that&#8217;s probably pretty common. 0:51:52 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroI mean, there&#8217;s many courses that I would like to play, but those are the two main ones for sure I&#8217;m giggling, because we recently had a guest in here and I said all right, you can pick your bucket list, but it can&#8217;t be St Andrews, can&#8217;t be Augusta. 0:52:07 &#8211; Dr. Zach CutlerBecause I know everybody wants that one. 0:52:08 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroSo if you, had to pick a third one. What&#8217;d you think? 0:52:11 &#8211; Dr. Zach CutlerOh, let&#8217;s probably. It would be neat to play, probably Pebble Beach. Yeah yeah, pebble Beach yeah, I would say that so. Or maybe Shadow Creek. So Most expensive golf course on the planet, I would say so. 0:52:33 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroAll right, is there a social media account that you&#8217;ve really been digging lately? Doesn&#8217;t have to be golf, can be anything but that. You would say like hey, you guys should go follow this account for whatever reason. Funny, you get good info whatever you like for. 0:52:46 &#8211; Dr. Zach CutlerYeah, so I&#8217;m kind of getting more into the social media side in regards to following accounts, and I like to follow a lot more of business and finance accounts, not only just golf, fitness and golf accounts, but there are a few out there that I enjoy looking at and it&#8217;s more of just like personal finance. It&#8217;s a podcast as well. It has its own Instagram account. I believe personal finance podcast would be it so, and that&#8217;s more just life and learning about finance, about business, any business, and I think that&#8217;s huge. 0:53:20 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroSo yeah, as a entrepreneur, business owner, it makes a ton of sense. All right, last one what&#8217;s the best piece of golf advice that you&#8217;ve ever been given? 0:53:30 &#8211; Dr. Zach CutlerDefinitely. So all of it have fun, definitely. And I got into a point where I feel like a lot of golfers do, where you&#8217;re working hard, trying hard, you get on the course and it&#8217;s not really going how you want and you&#8217;re getting frustrated and you&#8217;re out here playing golf and you have fun. You&#8217;re out here, you&#8217;re supposed to enjoy this and I think once people realize you&#8217;re on the course, you have fun, you loosen up, you&#8217;re actually gonna play your best golf as opposed to being in your head. 0:54:04 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroSo I would say have fun. Great advice, all right. Where&#8217;s the best place for people to go find you? Follow what you&#8217;re doing. I know you&#8217;re putting a lot of stuff on social media. Now these guys are getting it rolling. 0:54:14 &#8211; Dr. Zach CutlerYeah, so at FGLC Performance it&#8217;s on Instagram and then Facebook. Dr Zach Cutler on Facebook, so it kind of goes hand in hand. Put a lot of movement videos on there as well, a lot of videos in regards to what we&#8217;re doing in the office and treatment-wise, how we correlate things, and that&#8217;s probably the biggest platform I would say. I would say Instagram. So, yeah, awesome. 0:54:43 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroWell, dr Zach, thank you for coming on, really appreciate your time and I loved it. Your servicing the people of St Louis in the golf world. It&#8217;s cool to have somebody here that to be able to collaborate with and work with, and I&#8217;ve heard such great things about the work that you&#8217;re doing and just the mission of helping golfers get stronger, play better and just be the best Tain free golf. 0:55:05 &#8211; Dr. Zach CutlerYeah, 100%, all right. Thanks brother, awesome appreciate it. 0:55:11 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroThanks for listening to the 18STRONG podcast. Don&#8217;t forget to go follow us over on Instagram at 18strong, and if you found this episode helpful and wanna help us spread the 18STRONG mission, we&#8217;d really appreciate if you shared with your friends. Train hard, practice smart and play better golf.

Guest: Marty Jertson (PING Director of Product Development, The Stack System Co-Creator)Host: Jeff PelizzaroEpisode Number: 356Podcast: The 18STRONG PodcastPartners: Linksoul, 1stPhorm Summary Have you ever wondered how the best golf clubs are designed and manufactured? Marty Jertson, Director of Product Development at Ping and co-founder of the Stack System, joins me in this episode to shed some light on this. Marty takes us through his journey from being a professional golfer to developing high-quality golf products. He shares the behind-the-scenes of product manufacturing and the importance of data in creating golf clubs that enhance player performance. Our conversation ventures into the transformative impact of the Moneyball revolution on golf. We explore how analytics, combined with on-course data, have revolutionized club fitting and design. Marty also shares insights on the crucial aspect of club gapping and its role in determining the distance-accuracy ratio. But it doesn&#8217;t end there! We dive into the world of individualized speed training, discussing the benefits it offers to golfers of all ages, and how the Stack System has helped thousands improve their game. We wrap up the chat with Marty reminiscing about his family golf experiences and revealing the best piece of golf advice he&#8217;s ever received. If you&#8217;re a golf enthusiast or a professional in the game, this episode is a treasure trove of knowledge and tips to improve your game. So, grab your headphones, and let&#8217;s tee off this fascinating conversation with Marty Jertson. Main Topics (00:03) Golf Product Development and Stack System Marty Jertzen discusses product development at Ping, the Stack System, the 2018 PGA Championship, and his experience using the Stack System at the 2019 PGA Championship. (08:09) Golf Club Design and Engineering Journey Marty Jertzen&#8217;s journey to Ping, engineering degree, professional golf, product design, manufacturing process and data, American manufacturing, and golf club physics and design were discussed. (21:41) Prioritizing Problems and Golf Equipment Recommendations Ping uses data to prioritize goals, custom fit clubs, and analyze distance and accuracy for golfers. (26:58) Club Fitting and Shaft Selection Importance Club fitting, product engineering, controlling misses, club head and shaft differences, and individual force and torque are discussed. (36:48) Improve Golf Performance With Strength Training Marty Jertzon&#8217;s Stack System, developed with Dr. Sasha McKenzie&#8217;s research, has revolutionized golf with on-course data and custom fitting. (43:53) The Concept of Individualized Speed Training The Stack System offers 30 combinations of weights, personalized programs, and hands-free training with progress tracking. (49:21) Golf Speed Training Benefits for All Speed training offers golfers a low-risk way to lower their handicap, with the Stack System showing great results for all ages, even over 40. (55:49) Improving Golf Speed and Stack Putting Stack Putting helps golfers improve their game with analytics, guidance, and structured practice plans. (01:02:40) Golf With Family and Favorite Courses Marty Jertzen shares his golf experience, recommends Data Golf, and offers the best advice, all found online with The Stack System. (01:07:28) Discussing Fitness and Golf Training Marty discusses club fitting, strength, and vertical force, Stack System hardware and software, speed training, and Stack Putting App. Follow Marty Jertson Instagram: @jertybird Links Mentioned: The Stack System (Get 10% off with code: &#8220;18STRONG&#8221;) PING Episode Partners: LINKSOUL:&nbsp;For your 20% discount on LINKSOUL gear, go to&nbsp;18strong.com/linksoul&nbsp;or click the logo above. 1st Phorm: Try any of the 1st Phorm products with FREE SHIPPING, go to 1stphorm.com/18strong.com (By using this link, you will be entered into our Monthly 1st Phorm Giveaway!) More Cool Stuff to Check Out: To continue the conversation and ask any questions you may have, head over to the&nbsp;18STRONG Movement group on Facebook. 18STRONG Pro Shop (Get your 18STRONG gear!) 18STRONG Resources (All of the cool stuff we recommend: products, books, golf stuff, etc &#8211; and discount codes for the 18STRONG Crew) Want the full episode transcript? (click the &#8220;+&#8221; ????????) 0:00:03 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroThe 18STRONG Podcast, episode Number 356 with Marty Jertson, director of Product Development at Ping and co-founder of the Stack System. What&#8217;s up, guys? Welcome back to the 18STRONG Podcast, where we&#8217;re here to help you build a stronger game, because we believe that everyone deserves to play better, longer. This week, I&#8217;m super excited about our episode with the Director of Product Development at Ping, Marty Jertson, who is also the co-founder of the Stack System with Dr Sasho McKenzie. So in this episode, we&#8217;re talking not only about the product development and everything that Ping does to make some of the greatest golf clubs on the planet. We talk about club bidding, we talk about data and how they use that data to develop different clubs to improve every single year, but then we talk about the Stack System and building speed. You&#8217;ve probably heard of the Stack System because of guys like Matthew Fitzpatrick and seeing the speed that he&#8217;s gained and him winning the US Open and that becoming a big talk of conversation with being able to gain speed even at the highest of levels. Well, the stack is one of the reasons behind that gain in speed, and there&#8217;s over 30,000 golfers on the planet now using the Stack System. So, no matter what level you are utilizing the Stack System to gain speed, to gain distance and really more control over your game. So we talk about that with Marty. We talk about his game. He&#8217;s played in multiple PGA championships and PGA level tournaments, and this product was really designed because he noticed himself not being able to hang with the guys on the tour. And that&#8217;s really where the story starts with the Stack System. So you&#8217;re really going to enjoy this episode and we&#8217;ll get into it right after this. Our partners over at Lynxhole have been providing us with the best apparel for both on the course and off the course, from polos to t-shirts like the one I have on right now. Everything that they have is meant to be worn from the golf course to wherever you&#8217;re going next, whether that be casual, whether that be to the beach there&#8217;s all different options over there. So go to 18strongcom slash Lynxhole. We&#8217;ll get 20% off of anything in your cart over on Lynxhole&#8217;s website. So again, 18strongcom slash Lynxhole for our favorite brand of apparel for anything on the golf course and off. Now let&#8217;s get to this week&#8217;s interview. So, Marty, we&#8217;re just kind of talking about the 2018 PGA championship here at Bel Rive. I mean, obviously, you have tons of stories there. Tell me. First of all, you were saying that the fans were so great. I love to brag on St Louis, so it was one of the coolest sporting events I&#8217;ve been to. But what was your experience? Had you ever been to St Louis before, and how was that event for you? 0:02:54 &#8211; Marty JertsonNo, actually I think that in 2018 was my first time to St Louis. I played saw, I think Colistro turned me in around the area. I have a lot of family from Kansas City but it&#8217;s a lot. It&#8217;s a ways away, obviously, but they came down and went to the event, which was really fun. But of all the PGA&#8217;s I played in, I think the crowd was the most like electric there. Like, I think, because golf you know, big golf doesn&#8217;t come to St Louis and in that area that all and I think that&#8217;s one of the reasons the PGA of America loved having it there at Bel Rive and the crowd was electric and there were so many kids. I remember like it&#8217;s fun for me because I&#8217;m just a working guy, like normal guy, like who somebody wants your autograph. It was fun for me being around some of our other pink tour players, like Fee Down, some of these guys and so many kids there, so family oriented, so many kids there. The crowd was just super into the goal. So it was very refreshing. I had a great time. 0:03:54 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroMy nephew. He was there Tuesday. We were talking about how it, you know, rained a ton on Tuesday but got kids were there, like you said, to go get autographs and get things done. They stuck around as long as they possibly could. He&#8217;s got a flag with I don&#8217;t know how many different names on it and he stuck around and I think Kepka was like one of the last guys to come through so he got Kepka&#8217;s name on. It ends up going on a win, and so you know he was. He was super happy, but I mean just the whole, like you said, the electricity of the event, tiger Woods being there. Obviously, from what I, from what I heard, I wasn&#8217;t there on Sunday, but they said that on Sunday it was like hearing thunder, like just all the people running from one spot to another with with Tiger, and you made the cut that weekend. You played all four rounds that weekend. Could you, could? I mean, were you out there for any of that? Could you hear it? Could you feel it? 0:04:42 &#8211; Marty JertsonSo that actually is. So I made the cut in 19 at Beth page. But this is part of the story, because in 18, this part of my story was in 18, I played at Belle Reeve and I got up here with Luke Lewis and he obviously he&#8217;s been playing great lately but he gets the ball so far he was hitting it even further than it and I was kind of like demoralized by my distance in 18 and it was Belle Reeve was kind of soft, so he was all carry and distance mattered a ton that week as well as, like your precision iris play. And so the next I worked on some things to gain a lot of distance and I re qualified for the community championship at Beth page. This kind of relates to Tiger, cause I did play all four rounds of Beth page when I made the cut and I was two groups behind Tiger. So I teed off two groups behind Tiger and anyone on tour is like hey, you either want to be playing with Tiger or you want to be at least two groups away, Cause if you&#8217;re in the group of head or the group behind, the crowds are all coming in to get get their spot, or if you&#8217;re in the group behind. Everyone&#8217;s like trailing away. So actually it was perfect because I got to experience the Tiger Roars, cause he actually he missed the cut at Beth page but he made an eagle whatever he&#8217;d make a birdie. It was just like electric the Roars. There&#8217;s nothing like that. It was fun to actually be playing in the event in this close proximity, when we experienced a little bit of that, that&#8217;s. 0:06:11 &#8211; Jeff Pelizzarothat&#8217;s so amazing. How many PGA championships have you played in? 0:06:15 &#8211; Marty JertsonI&#8217;ve played in five PGA championships and one us open, so six majors total. 0:06:22 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroOkay, and now? Are you a PGA professional, pga instructor, or is that? How did you get into the PGA championship? 0:06:31 &#8211; Marty JertsonYeah. So yes, I am a, I&#8217;m in. I think my whole job and career is kind of like a mystery. Sometimes I even have a hard time describing it. But yes, I am a PJ of America member. So I think most PJ of America members the most common is you work at a golf course HintPro, thapro, assistantpro, gm, that type of thing. But you can be a PJ member and work in other avenues, like I think you know, mike Small, the golf coach at Illinois. He&#8217;s a PJ member. You&#8217;re allowed to be a golf coach. You got to kind of be employed anywhere in the industry. So you know, I in my role at Ping, I&#8217;m able to be a PJ member through one of the classifications there and then obviously now also have a Speed Training Aid company, the stack system. So both of those kind of qualify to be a working professional golfer and it&#8217;s kind of like getting your masters in the golf industry. Actually, the education process to become a PJ member is pretty rigorous. Takes most folks, you know, three to five years to kind of go through the whole bookwork, education, certification process. 0:07:37 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroNow. So let&#8217;s go back to kind of your history, because you went to engineering school, mechanical engineering degree, colorado School of Miners. Is it minors or mines? 0:07:47 &#8211; Marty JertsonMines minors school mines yeah. 0:07:50 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroVery, I heard you talk about this on the show with with your buddy, sleaze and Colt and kind of dove deep into your past. But give us a little background on. You know what took you to engineering school, what then got you into, you know, going on to the golf path and actually getting into having a career in the world of golf. 0:08:09 &#8211; Marty JertsonYeah, I mean, I think with a lot of kind of folks that do interesting things, like there&#8217;s, there&#8217;s luck along the way, you know, and knowing that you know me, the right person at the right time, or one little micro decision that sends you down a path. So I think my journey is very much like that, like I was a pretty good junior golfer, but not great right In songs, always kind of this. You know, on the fringe of oh man, I should go try to play for a big D1 school and commit to golf. And I think in the back of my head I was like I&#8217;m just not as good as some of these other kids that are kicking my butt and all the junior tournament. So I had to make that decision. Should I go try to play for a D1 team and not do engineering because the coaches won&#8217;t let you but it&#8217;s just not allowed. I don&#8217;t know what it&#8217;s like now. Or should I go to you know a better academic school where I could still play golf but make golf the number two priority? And that&#8217;s what I chose to do Chloro School, mines Now their academic program is amazing. They have the number one football team. D2 right now in the golf program is phenomenal. So I was kind of at the beginning of that ramping the golf team up from you know kind of like a hobby golf team to now we&#8217;re a legitimate team. That&#8217;s, if you&#8217;re in, want to do math, science, engineering and you also want to play golf, it&#8217;d be an awesome place to look at. So that&#8217;s kind of how I ended up there and I grew up in a small mining town copper mining town, and so a lot of the you know kind of folks that ran the mines in my town were alumni from the Colorado School Mines. That&#8217;s how I, that&#8217;s how I knew about the school and had a great time with their way of D2 golf and and spent the summers in Colorado and and that kind of shaped my future of you know, getting a little bit better at golf through college and. But then I kind of graduated from school and I was faced with decision like, do I do my engineering degree or do I play professional golf? And I gave from golf, you know, a run for about a year and I think I realized that the math just is not on your side. As a mining tour golfer. I realized, not faster than a load of my friends, and then it kind of got in the door and been doing my thing here ever since. 0:10:23 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroWhat did you start? What was your first role at Ping? 0:10:27 &#8211; Marty JertsonYeah, it was kind of like a sort of like an intern, so to speak, even though I&#8217;d already graduated and I helped set up. You know Ping is very committed to making product in American manufacturing Super fun. We have about 800 employees here at our campus and a majority of those, the biggest chunk of those is manufacturing jobs. They&#8217;re building the gold books that you&#8217;re getting, and so we have, you know, 350, 400 employees that are doing that assembly, work, the loft and lie the gripping, the epoxy, the custom waiting, all that stuff. So my first job was working on the assembly line doing manufacturing, engineering, what&#8217;s called lean manufacturing, taking some things from like the Toyota way and how Toyota builds product in Japan and bringing some of those lean manufacturing techniques that allows us. The end goal is we can build a driver that goes into our manufacturing line and exits it about 30 minutes later. It&#8217;s literally drawing, while it&#8217;s in transit, out to the customer. So, where before that, it took, like you know, days to build one driver. 0:11:34 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroAnd then did you soon thereafter get into the designing portion of the clubs, or is that something that you kind of have to work your way into and is that something that you were really excited about doing, or you&#8217;re just kind of like I&#8217;m at Ping, we&#8217;ll see what happens, and go from there? 0:11:50 &#8211; Marty JertsonYeah, I think the design part was super intimidating to me. Like it was like how is this done? I had a little bit of what&#8217;s called count or 3D design experience, but that seemed very daunting to me to learn a new skill. It was scary, like I didn&#8217;t know if I had the belief in myself that I could actually do that one day. Right, I was kind of interested in it, but I&#8217;ve always kind of, I think, like a lot of folks out there like questioning, like can I do that? And so, yeah, I was brought in and it&#8217;s very much when you do it, when you become a product designer. In our culture we kind of have like to have an apprenticeship model, because there&#8217;s the learning curve is so steep and you cannot learn this in school. Like, I think that&#8217;s one of the big conclusions you go to school to learn baseline things, foundational things, but every but when you get out of school the real learning starts, right, I think that&#8217;s, you know, a big thing I&#8217;ve learned over the years. So it was a. It was very daunting to learn that and I had some great mentors that taught me the ropes of the foundational pieces, the design product, and then a really big learning curve to get good at the 3D design and I spent a lot of time where my brain was thinking and seeing every little object I saw how would I create that in 3D? And so there was. There was quite a few years of my life behind the computer doing a lot of 3D work and trying to really get good at the CAD side. And you have to marry that with the with the physics side. There&#8217;s tons of golf physics that goes into it. So yeah, I kind of I kind of apprenticed into that design role and started to slowly take on more and more projects and gain confidence, because I didn&#8217;t really I kind of struggled with that at the beginning, that you know kind of a lot of that self doubt. And then my confidence got higher and I started to become more interested in things beyond club head design, shafts, grips, friction span, wedge and putters, club fitting, and now it&#8217;s kind of been the basis of. I think you know how my career has evolved over. You know now 20 years doing it. 0:13:56 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroWhat was the first club that you had a piece of like from start to finish? 0:14:02 &#8211; Marty JertsonYeah, the first one where I was like you know that was exciting time. But a high pressure time is when you get your first official project and you are literally the chief engineer, like you&#8217;re in charge of everything the graphics, how it looks, the manufacturing kind of, you know, cost optimization side of things, durability testing, player testing, performance testing. And the first one was the Rapture hybrid. Really cool. It kind of paired with our for the gold enthusiasts out there, historians our Rapture driver, which had composite in it, was our first driver that had composite back there in the in around like 2000, five, six time frame. And so I designed is the early days of hybrids. So you know there wasn&#8217;t like a rule, there wasn&#8217;t a playbook to follow. You had to kind of pioneer what the shape should be, how it should spin, the loss and materials. And I designed this really cool multi-material construction, tungsten, sole plate, high strength face all welded together. You could loft in Lyon and this type of thing. And it was, it was. It was super fun seeing that club out in retail in the golf shops for the first time. I&#8217;ll never forget, you know, working on that one. 0:15:17 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroWhen you&#8217;re you know there&#8217;s so many things I would assume that you can put into a club. You&#8217;re talking about the different medals and and ways to to piece these things together, and I mean the chemistry of it. I mean I don&#8217;t even know where to begin asking how, how you start to come up with different, different ideas of how do we make these clubs better. I mean, obviously, year after year after year after year, you guys are coming up with new technology, different ways to to make a club better, but then also I&#8217;m assuming, there&#8217;s quite a few regulations you have to stay within and you know you have to be attentive to, you know what are the rules, what&#8217;s USGA approved or what you know. How do you first even kind of start looking at okay, here&#8217;s what we have right now, like your current clubs right now. Is it something that you guys are thinking about All right now? How do we, what are we going to do next? Is it? Is it that simple, like just starting with that question and then, or is it gradually kind of improving on what&#8217;s already out there? 0:16:17 &#8211; Marty JertsonThat&#8217;s just a great framework and I think the questions that you asked are a lot of like golf consumers think about like, what are we doing? What are we doing over here? That&#8217;s exactly the problem, you know, and I think paying is is a very fun place to work and our team is super talented and we have a great kind of core mission, which is don&#8217;t get too hyper focused on the technology side. Stay very focused on defining the problem that the golfer is facing. What is the pain point, right? And so instead of sitting down saying, hey, we need to implement this technology, we at first sit down and say what problem are we trying to solve? What is the pain point for the golfer? Like in some of them can be very simple like we need more ball speed. Right, for the driver to go further, we need more ball speed. Do we need this driver to spin more, spin less? Do we need it to be more forgiving? What is? Then we go into what is the technical definition of forgiveness, like, what is forgiveness? Oh, we need the ball speed to higher at all portions around the face. We need impacts low on the face to be more similar in distance as hits high on the face. And then we say, well, how can we do that? Okay, well, we can make the moment of inertia higher or we can change the face curvature. What levers do we have to pull on? And so we start always start at the problem for the golfer and work back towards what is the technology that we can use to solve those problems. And Ping&#8217;s been super committed to that and I think it&#8217;s really paid off to help our brand be such a good long term brand that some years were bringing enormous innovations to the market, like turbulent and you talked about Jeff. One one question is I think a lot of people are thinking the exact same thing as yours oh, they&#8217;re all regulated right. Like well, one of the ways to force an engineer to be creative is to put a wall in front of them Because you&#8217;re forced into creativity. Engineers and designers a lot of times struggle If things are too open ended like it, like if you have no rules or no regulations. Sometimes that would be harder than no one you got to play within this box. I can kind of sneak around over here, sneak a little performance over here. Turbulent is a perfect example that there&#8217;s no USG regulation on how aerodynamically efficient you can make a driver right. There&#8217;s no that. Now they do have regulations on features and where you can put features and the size and shape. So I think that&#8217;s a great example of cracking the code. On having a driver that&#8217;s very big but it&#8217;s aerodynamic, it&#8217;s dry coefficient is like we have a driver that&#8217;s super small, right. So that&#8217;s a way that that&#8217;s one example where we can kind of have an innovation that&#8217;s not even in the spout and being regulated, and then we have some really strong patents on that and protected things that nature. 0:19:19 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroSo the Turbulent? What exactly is a Turbulent? 0:19:24 &#8211; Marty JertsonThat&#8217;s a great question. It is what it sounds like it. Is it Turbulents there? No, I&#8217;m just kidding. So it&#8217;s these tiny little. Well, they&#8217;re not tiny, the size and shape of them are very exact, but they&#8217;re little ridges right on the crayon of the driver. So that&#8217;s where the face meets the top of the driver. There&#8217;s these ridges, and on our driver we have six of them. What they do is they create a micro layer of Turbulents that takes the airflow. We have some really cool videos that we&#8217;ve done in the wing tunnel. So the airflow going over the top of the meat in the face and joining the crown, it&#8217;s very blunt. It&#8217;d be like a pickup truck or something To make a driver go be very forgiving. It&#8217;s naturally not very aerodynamic, and so what these ridges do is they give the airflow more momentum to stay attached to the crown, because normally you get this vacuum effect. You get a low pressure area that creates like a you can think of it like a vacuum, like sucking the driver back, words the wrong direction, getting a net force on the driver going the wrong direction. And that&#8217;s what normally happens if you don&#8217;t have Turbulent. It&#8217;s like a pickup truck, huge weight back there, sucking the ruin in the gas mileage of the pickup truck. So what Turbulenters do? They keep that airflow more attached to the crown, give the air momentum and it reduces the drag coefficient significantly. So super cool. We developed that using Flow CFD software, which is like a virtual wind tunnel, and we did a lot of little experiments getting the size, shaped, spacing, contouring. We doing some wind tunnel testing down here at Arizona State University. 0:21:12 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroI mean, you guys probably just have the coolest toys to play with ever, I would imagine. 0:21:19 &#8211; Marty JertsonYeah, we got some good kids. Like we have a really cool Mark Nellis motion capture system which is kind of measures the twisting, drooping, lead lagging, how the shaft bends, basically, if we do that it like on 700, 800 frames a second, it&#8217;s kind of got like a live MRI of your Gulf swing. And that&#8217;s one of our favorite, favorite research pieces of kit that we have here. 0:21:41 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroThat&#8217;s so awesome. You mentioned that you guys always work from the problem back. What are, what are some of the the top problems that you guys are constantly trying to solve? I&#8217;m gonna guess distance accuracy, and you know which one do you guys tend to do? Lean towards one or the other, is it? You know, working on a little bit of everything. 0:21:59 &#8211; Marty JertsonThere&#8217;s been a big kind of money ball revolution in golf and it kind of goes down to the. The core of it was like a new statistics that showed up in all Cold strokes game and this was originated by kind of a gone father of golf statistics names mark mark Brody and his son, chris Brody works with me and for me. Here is my colleague, but you know solving problems here, so we&#8217;re very, very tied to that and I bring that up because it&#8217;s helped given a really good Framework on what our priorities are. Shouldn&#8217;t we focus more on distance? Should we focus more on accuracy? And the other cool piece that we have access to now is a long of all in course data. So I think that&#8217;s one of the coolest things is that People evaluated golf equipment through a custom fitting and then you go play golf and it&#8217;s kind of like, okay, good luck, we&#8217;ll never see again and see what you need new clubs in three, five years. Those days are kind of gone. Now we can throw things like Arcos, which is you know stats, smart stats, tracking, gps, integrated. We know what clubs you&#8217;re hitting when on the golf course, where you might be better or worse. We can start bringing that on course big data into our design and fitting environment and it&#8217;s super exciting times, I you know. Quite frankly, I think we&#8217;re just scratching the surface on that front and that&#8217;s helping us drive those priorities. Where on the golf course can we help golfers play better golf? So that&#8217;s exposing some things like your club gapping, that&#8217;s the spacing, the yardage spacing you have between all your clubs. We&#8217;re doing some really fun things that are driven by on course data. You know on course play. So I think you know of course we want the driver to go super far. We also wanted to go straight. We&#8217;re using really cool analytics to give us that ratio of how much further versus straighter and we actually have that boiled down to like a actual simple ratio. You know if your everyday player should be hitting it further in a ratio of two to one, as Compared to their straightness from up, from a statistical standpoint, stroke being standpoint. And then you know we want the copes to sound good, we want to feel good, and then we&#8217;re we&#8217;re using on course play data To help prioritize gapping and things of that nature. 0:24:16 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroI didn&#8217;t realize that you guys had and I should have realized this that you had access to all of that, on course, stuff from Things like Arcos, and that&#8217;s amazing to me. That and just I mean goes to show how much is involved in the research that you guys are Doing and really trying to figure out. What are the different gaps? Where do people like me versus you know, super low handicappers? You know, guys like you professionals, when you guys are, I mean, obviously you have such a wide array of products for different levels of golfers. Is there one you know, handicap level or or grouping of handicapped levels that makes up the biggest demographic and does that drive a lot of what you&#8217;re doing? 0:24:57 &#8211; Marty JertsonYeah for sure that&#8217;s a great question. Yeah, is that? Bug Ping was founded by, you know, a frustrated, really good smart, frustrated engineer, carson soul, I mean. So he, he kind of solved the problem for himself, which was like he was. He was like a, you know, high-handicap golfer that wanted to get better and the game seemed too hard and he wanted to bring better engineering through the equipment. So we ask ourselves that question a lot. If, if we could only have one model of product for the entire market, what would it be? And by for that&#8217;s like our G series product, like our G430? You know, max driver in our G430 irons. By far that&#8217;s kind of like our modern-day I2 and for those that golf historians out there, they know the I2 iron which was the number one iron for like a decade in the golf marketplace. Our G430 is that iron that if we only made one it would work amazing for everybody. And but the peak of the market is your high handicapped golfer, right, your weekend warrior. They&#8217;re trying to get a little bit better when they can. But they got families, they got John&#8217;s, but they get out there on the weekends and they want something that&#8217;s gonna have plenty of forgiveness. Go relatively far go, relatively high, and that&#8217;s where our G series product is. 0:26:20 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroWhat would you say to? Because I think that demographic is a lot of the people listening to the show We&#8217;ve got, you know, instructors and medical professionals listening to, but I like to think that our main demographic listening is obviously the fitness minded golfer, many of them probably in like the 35 plus range and Varying in all ranges of handicaps. But what are some of the things that you would suggest to to that crew Regarding what&#8217;s it, what&#8217;s most important when you&#8217;re looking at new clubs? I know I&#8217;ve heard you talk about club fitting and how important that can be. What are some of the recommendations, just simple, low hanging fruit things that you would tell these people? 0:26:57 &#8211; Marty JertsonYeah, great. Question number one is Don&#8217;t be intimidated to go get a club fitting right and be open minded. Be open minded. We&#8217;ve built some great tools. If you find a good pink club fitter out there, we have some amazing fitting tools to get you dialed so you can have your line. Be open, that you can gain Distance or performance through the club designs and equally as much, it&#8217;s like a Venn diagram. You want to gain performance through the fitting and you need to marry those two together. You want to have them both have have both the fitting in the, the product engineering Benefiting you okay. So the fitting is super important, equally as important as the product. So be very open minded to try some things like you might have a Superfast club at speed but you might be better because your transition or now you need to launch the ball in a little bit of a softer shaft, you know, so kind of maybe drop your ego a little bit, then you you might have tried in the past right, so that might be something to think about, but definitely get. You, get on, get a club fitting on a launch monitor. That&#8217;s super important and be mindful of not only your one best shot. That might happen you want to look at how consistent they are. You want to look at your how good or your missus. Golf is very much a game that you want to kind of control your misses and you want your misses to be better. So that&#8217;s one I think valuable piece of advice when you go into that fitting environment Is, yes, look at your good shots you want to hear your good shots great. But also look at the shots that you don&#8217;t hit as good, and that&#8217;s where you can really differentiate from better product in Proc that the engineering of the design is as good as your missus. I. 0:28:45 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroLike you say, don&#8217;t, don&#8217;t focus on one shot that you hit, perfect, because I feel like that&#8217;s typically how we think in our head, like oh, my seven, I was one 165, because I did it one time and I probably sculled it. So club head versus shaft, I know that. You know, I&#8217;ve heard so many times. You know the shaft is super important. What are some of the things about the shaft and I heard you talk about this in the episode on the sub part, talking about and you even Just mentioned about the transition and how that plays a big deal in in what shaft is right for you. But club head versus shaft is one more important than the other or does it just kind of depend? And that&#8217;s where the fitting really makes the biggest difference? 0:29:25 &#8211; Marty JertsonYeah, so you&#8217;re gonna control most of the performance through the properties of the head. For example, you know I can&#8217;t give you an L flex shaft and an X flex shaft and that will not change how the ball flies as much as me giving you like a nine degree driver versus a 20 degree driver. So the head is the most important from a launch condition in a performance standpoint, but that&#8217;s not saying the shaft is not important. The shaft is really a fitting lever. So again, it&#8217;s you want to marry them both together and what the shaft can do for you is you want it to kind of match your, your, your kinetics. How do you apply force to the club? Right, this is like your signature, how you apply force and torque, and you mentioned, jeff, like your transition. So the transition is super important because that&#8217;s where you change the direction at the top of your backswing and how you apply force and torque to the handle through your hands. There&#8217;s a lot of biomechanics that goes into why everyone does that a little bit differently, but that is the secret sauce of of shaft fitting Is fitting you to the right shaft for A your club at speed. B whether you need to hit a little bit lower. But the most important thing is that you kind of fall in love with how that shaft is going to behave, bend and deflect, with how you individual golfer apply force and torque through the hands to the handle during the transition, and so a tons of our research goes into how do we build better tools and make that very easy, because that sounds hard and mysterious and overwhelming and intimidating. But we have tools to help our fitters do that and get you into the right shaft. So you have two players that both swing the club. It&#8217;s the same speed at the bottom, but they&#8217;re going to need totally different shafts based on how they transition it. One might apply a force like more straight along the shaft during the down swing and one might pull down on the handle and deflect it more. And you want to marry how much what you do there in transition to the stiffness of the shaft. 0:31:46 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroCan you give us an example of two guys on tour that you know? You know, like two different style swings or two different transitions that maybe give us a better visual of and maybe what you know, if you happen to know what they&#8217;re using? Yeah, totally. 0:32:00 &#8211; Marty JertsonSo like a smooth transition would be if anyone out there could picture Louis Ustazen like, sweet, swinging, silky looking. I want that swing. Oh, it looks so good and he has what we call a smooth transition. So and this is a really fun story he is typically used. Even though he swings it like 100, you know, in swing to 118 club speed he is used very soft shafts. He&#8217;s even used a shaft out there called the auto flex for a while which is basically like a ladies flex in terms of the bending stiffness Well, and he kind of experimented down with the little for a little while. But he&#8217;s typically used the equivalent of an S flex or stiff flex shaft, even though you know, if you go off some some fitting algorithm it might be. Oh, he needs a triple X based on his swing speed. So he&#8217;s wanted. You can visualize him where the club and the shaft go in and then they return closer to the same trajectory on the opposite end of the spectrum, if you guys can kind of visualize well, a Victor Hovland&#8217;s the modern day example. Or Cameron champ, both very high club and speed. Cameron champs off the charts. He&#8217;s in the you know, the top of the PJ tour for club at speed but they have what we call a very abrupt transition where in that change of direction they&#8217;re pulling down on the handle a lot and that that creates a lot of deflection in the shaft. So for those players we need a shaft that&#8217;s going to minimize or optimize that deflection, and that&#8217;s generally a shaft that&#8217;s much, much stiffer in the butt section. And so if you give those guys, if you swap Louis shaft with Victor Hovland, they got the same club at speed. Both of them would go crazy and have a erratic results because we&#8217;re not marrying out their kinetics in that transition. 0:33:54 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroAnd that just goes to reiterate the importance of going and having somebody look at your swing, somebody that understands it, have the track man, be able to tell the different you know scenarios, look at the different numbers and fit you for the proper one, right, Exactly. 0:34:09 &#8211; Marty JertsonYes, yeah, you are. The shaft is all about fitting, it&#8217;s all about matching it to you individually, absolutely. 0:34:18 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroI want to take just a second to thank our new partner, which I&#8217;m really excited to announce is First Form. First Form is a company that is here in St Louis, based in St Louis. It&#8217;s a nutritional company that is doing incredible things in the world of nutrition and one of the reasons that we decided to partner with First Form is obviously we&#8217;re very impressed with their dedication to their products and the quality of their products. But really it&#8217;s the dedication to them and them helping their customers get real results Aside from just the products. We got a chance to go and actually visit the facility again here in St Louis and really walk the halls of the corporate offices. But we got to see the manufacturing plan or the warehouse, and it&#8217;s not just a place where they&#8217;re packaging supplements and shipping them out. It&#8217;s a culture, it&#8217;s a community and you can see that amongst the employees. You can see that their culture and their core values that are not just pieces of art on their wall. They&#8217;re actually living them there and they&#8217;re helping to expand those into the community and really that&#8217;s why we partner with First Form. Obviously, their products are incredible. Otherwise we wouldn&#8217;t suggest them either. We use them on a regular basis, so you&#8217;re going to be hearing a lot more about their products and what they can do for your fitness, what they can do for your golf game, the protein powders, the multivitamins, the protein sticks, the hydration packets All of those products we&#8217;re going to highlight in future episodes. But we just wanted to really celebrate our new partnership with First Form. You can go to their website, FirstFormcom forward slash 18STRONG and we&#8217;re going to be doing a giveaway every single month with anybody that buys through that link. So go to FirstFormcom that&#8217;s P-H-O-R-M com. Forward slash 18STRONG. That&#8217;ll take you directly to their website and you can check their whole suite of products, including some of their fitness apparel and anything that&#8217;s purchased over there. You&#8217;re going to be enrolled into our list for our giveaway. So we talked a little bit about your experience from 2018 to 2019. You know, seeing these guys just bomb, bomb balls, it was really wet out there. It&#8217;s my understanding Is that kind of where some of the you went and worked on your speed a whole lot. Is that where the idea of the stack started to percolate a little bit, and how did you and Sasha McKenzie, who was your partner and co-founder in the stack system, how did you guys even start to work on collaborating together and give us the story of that. 0:36:48 &#8211; Marty JertsonYeah, I think my whole career has been trying to create products and I think there&#8217;s a good this is like, I think an advice I&#8217;ve read or learned about is you want to try to solve your own problem and then, if you can do that, you have like maximum skin in the game and then try to scale it and help others Right. And I think and I&#8217;ve tried to create I&#8217;ve almost created like a whole ecosystem around that, because golf is such a painful sport. It&#8217;s so hard you go out there and so rare to win. Like almost every time you quote unquote lose if in a second or worse than that. It&#8217;s such a painful sport. So, yes, in 2018, when I played the look list when I was in St Louis, that was the tipping point for me, where I was like that was my, I think, third PGA championship and I was like I could definitely get in another one of these, like I could qualify again through the PGA national championship and all those things. My skill was good in a lot of areas but by far, I was at that point where I was hitting it way too short to compete at that level and my life&#8217;s dream, my Corona dream, was to make the cut in major Like I was. Like man, I want to play the weekend in one of these things. I don&#8217;t want to just come up, come over here, be the club pro, not play the weekend, and off you go and pack your bags and kind of is what it&#8217;s going to be. Everyone could cancel. Now I want to. I want to define the odds here and play the weekend. It was fun to watch Michael blog through that this year by the way, it&#8217;s super fun watching him and I&#8217;ve talked to him a few times about it. So, yeah, that&#8217;s when the whole I guess the pain of like how do I solve it further? And so Sasha, dr Sasha McKenzie, who&#8217;s probably golf leading biomechanist he&#8217;s been a consultant for us at Ping with research, research on things like shaft video, just talked about club fitting, the biomechanics of the golf swing and how those can help with design and club fitting, and so you know he. But he&#8217;s also a track and field coach. He has tons of experience with fitness training and things of that nature, his wife&#8217;s track and field coach and a PT that&#8217;s kind of what they do up there in Canada. So I talked to him after that event. I think he was down here for a conference. I was like, man, I need to hit it further. And he was like, well, number one thing, we got to get you a little bit stronger. So he, we, you know I got a ground on the deadlift protocol that he gave me spread sheet, all planned out perfectly, and I&#8217;d never even done that. You know I was doing other training stuff, some kettlebell stuff and things of that nature, but I was like, okay, I&#8217;m in. And you know I started doing that in my garage. I got my, my trap bar, you know, started out with a couple 45s and boom, there I started then. Every time I needed to level up I&#8217;d go to play, to get in sports and get some more plates and what do you know, there I was, like you know, three or four months later I was like deadlifting like 400 pounds out of nowhere and I was like holy moly Okay. So that gave me some potential. I had some back. My back was dicey, I think you know in my early twenties the hernia disc things, that nature. My back feels to go right now like zero issues. So that&#8217;s been super fun. I think that&#8217;s a fun finding. But I kind of have that base, that base level of strength, and then it was like, okay, how do I get faster? Those are kind of two different things. I need to have the strength and the base level of strength there to make sure I, you know, felt good, have the potential for more, more vertical force. So I kind of have that now in my system, so to speak. Then I need to work on the technique and the speed training side. And he had dabbled with some research on speed training and the thing with speed training. People have kind of done this in golf they will do like gross level, what&#8217;s called over speed and overload training, where they would go like super light, super heavy, nothing in between. And he he knew from his research that you had to get much more precise with the speed training. You had to be very precise with the resistance levels, just like you would be when you&#8217;re programming weightlifting right. And so we kind of built that hardware that turned out ended up being the commercial product which is now the stack system. That allowed us to have very precise loads on the end and then cycle and build a training program and protocols around having that very precise loads and that has absolutely been the secret to both my speed gains and now that we productize into the stack system. Basically, when folks use the stack, you&#8217;re you&#8217;re literally getting social McKenzie designing your protocols for you, like it&#8217;s all all of his brain kind of packed into the, the algorithms in the app, which is super cool and then a lot of fun. So that turned my personal game around and helped me gain tons of speed and distance. I mean, I was one you know, I think for the golfers out there that kind of know ball speed I was. I was in the one. I had regressed into the 160s ball speed range, which was low on the PJ tour. By the time I hit Beth Beach in May of 2019, I was playing golf with high 170s ball speed, which means you&#8217;re, which means I was up back to above kind of standard in terms of distance, and then I even dabbled with playing in the 180s a little bit on the golf course, and now I&#8217;m trying to, you know, kind of maintain those gains and things of that nature, but it was an absolute game changer in a hundred percent the reason why I was able to a hit my driver further in Beth Beach. But then the other benefit that people don&#8217;t talk about is you hit your irons higher right, and so that was that landed steeper, have a little bit more speed out of the rough and all the. There&#8217;s other ancillary benefits that come to more speed than just hitting your driver further. 0:42:39 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroYeah, I think that&#8217;s what we. We think of most is just the driver just off the T box when you were playing with Luke. Give us an idea like how far behind a guy like him were you at that time in 2018? And what maybe would be his typical ball speed? 0:42:55 &#8211; Marty JertsonLuke at the time was in the 190s ball speed. I think he&#8217;s actually maybe tighten things up a little bit. I know he just won on tour and his I saw some of his ball speed talk TV that were a little bit less so he may have relaxed his speeds just a little bit, but he was literally like 50 or 60 yards by me. So he was in the 190s and I was in the 160s and I would tee off and I&#8217;d be like, okay, I&#8217;d like, and there was no, there was hardly any roll there, kind of Zoysia fairways, and it was whether it rained that week and hot and humid in the summertime. So I my we were kind of exaggerated by the conditions. If you weren&#8217;t from our conditions I&#8217;d be rolling it out there a little bit more. But he was all carrying to like 330, 340. And I&#8217;d be all carry out there to my like 280 or whatever it was at the time. I&#8217;m just going oh, like mulling, but if I went back there with my speed today I would have a way better chance of bell reef. 0:43:54 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroWhen I look at the stack system and I haven&#8217;t had a chance to use it, but I have several clients that have used it and the thing that I was blown away by is the intuitive intuitiveness of you know you think of it&#8217;s just a club that has some weights on it that you swing. Really, I mean the biggest piece is the app and the algorithms and, like you said, it&#8217;s basically Sasha McKenzie in your phone. So it&#8217;s not just a blanket program for everybody. It&#8217;s based on your performance, what you&#8217;re doing. So give us a little insight into how that works. And I mean, obviously, that had to take so much time and effort to put all that stuff together. 0:44:29 &#8211; Marty JertsonYeah, so we needed hardware that could do it. I mean, it&#8217;s definitely a hardware software, you know, combining holistic solution. We needed, we needed hardware that gave you very fine spacing so we could change the loads, right, so the hardware has five weights, but we need to do the combinatorics on how we laid out all the masses of those weights. It gives you 30 different combinations. Right, I feel like you&#8217;re going into to do curls or something. You know if you didn&#8217;t have all those weights, you&#8217;d have like 10s, 50s and 100s. I mean, how are you going to progress, right, you know through that, through that range, and so we needed the hardware to do it. And then so the hardware gives us very tight spacing and then you are absolutely right and the key is that everybody gets their own individualized programs. The first thing you do when you onboard to the stack app is you go through what&#8217;s called a baseline session. This is like your assessment, and we have you swing your own driver, you get warmed up, you all that. We have you swing your own driver. Then we have you swing the stack with light, medium, light, medium, medium, heavy, heavy loads and we generate. The app then generates what&#8217;s called a force-fellocity curve and based on that force-fellocity curve, it then generates a customized program with specific training loads for you. And then what&#8217;s cool about that is that, let&#8217;s say, you&#8217;re going through your program and as you level up your speed, so if you start getting faster, the app looks at your previous workout and will generate adjustments not only to just one six-week program. That&#8217;s not frozen and baked in time, it&#8217;s constantly looks at your progress. It will start to level up with you as you go through it. So every workout is customized. Every single workout that you do is customized in the app. And then once you get done with a training program, which is nearly around six weeks six, seven, eight weeks you do another equivalent of that baseline or assessment session, post-test, post-program assessment and then it compares how you&#8217;ve done are there any changes in your force-fellocity profile? And it will kind of ping the AI which is getting like that and saw Joe&#8217;s brain in there and they were training the algorithms with everyone who&#8217;s doing it and formulate your next program will give you the highest probability to gain more speed and the folks that have gained the most speed do it over two programs. So folks gain a ton of speed in your first six weeks. The folks that go two programs gain a massive amount of speed, like 10 to 12 miles an hour in COVID speed. 0:47:19 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroHoly cow, I&#8217;m blue, we have so one of my friends and clients, so the podcast studio is also a test to a gym here and so, and we have a hitting day out there. And so one day I&#8217;m walking out and I hear I just hear my buddy Andrew going 96. Like. And I&#8217;m like, what are you doing? And he&#8217;s like, oh, I&#8217;m talking to the app. So you know, yeah, had the little speed monitor, so you have to have the speed. I have to have a speed monitor to do this correctly. But it was cool because he&#8217;s just you know he would record what it was and you don&#8217;t have to go type things in. It&#8217;s like he just speaks it out loud, the app captures it, puts it in the spread. That means I was like holy cow, this is just amazing, so so cool. 0:48:01 &#8211; Marty JertsonYeah, so that&#8217;s what we call that kind of voice entry mode, because you know, eventually we&#8217;ll probably have like a radar solution, that Bluetooth through the app. But for now you can just throw your radar down on the ground, you swing and that, yeah, you just talk it in and you can turn on dictation mode and Siri in the app just captures it. Boom, you can train hands free and it&#8217;s totally seamless. It has the timers in there, so it controls your rest times absolutely perfectly. And we continue to try to what we continue to kind of refine those in the app. If you break a personal record, the app goes crazy for you. It&#8217;ll start cheering for you. So we really drive a lot of the incentives in the app and that is super fun is being able to do that for Do you find that some people are almost a little intimidated when they hear speed training? 0:48:49 &#8211; Jeff Pelizzaroand you know, I mean because I&#8217;m thinking of somebody like, obviously, myself, but you know somebody like my dad who&#8217;s in his late 60s and is probably thinking I&#8217;m not gonna do that, I don&#8217;t wanna hurt myself. You know, what would you say to somebody that is kind of in that position and in that mindset where this might seem a little intimidating, might seem like too much to do? What&#8217;s your response to anybody with those questions? 0:49:11 &#8211; Marty JertsonYeah, no it&#8217;s good, I think, especially for the. I think especially for folks that are that age, like they&#8217;re a little bit older, like hey, is it too late for me to gain speed? Or you know things that nature. Well, on the intimidation side, I would say that you know speed training, if you&#8217;re a golfer that wants to get better, is the lowest gaining speed is the lowest hanging fruit. The lowest hanging fruit to lower your sport. Like it is the easiest thing to do with the stack. Like it&#8217;s just, if you do, just give us six weeks and you&#8217;re gonna gain speed and it&#8217;s the most correlated skill to golf handicap. Like if you plon handicap and speed, that&#8217;s the most macro level correlated skill. So if you increase your speed you&#8217;re gonna lower your handicap. Okay, so that&#8217;s number one. Number two, in terms of kind of the injury side or oh, I might get hurt and things of that nature you are way more probable to get hurt actually playing golf because the forces that occur when you hit a golf ball or the ground or a root or a tough lie or things of that nature are in order of magnitude higher than anything you would experience with speed training. So you&#8217;re much more likely to get hurt playing golf right Than you would be speed training. So that&#8217;s kind of one thing. Obviously, you wanna we say that with make sure you kind of or in good physical condition, you don&#8217;t have any underlying injuries and things of that nature. That&#8217;s where the baseline strength level and everything that you guys do is super important because there&#8217;s pairing speed training together with your overall fitness training. Make sure you&#8217;re in good shape for both playing golf and quality of life off the golf course. And then I would say also that we have had some of our best reviews from our stack. Customers are golfers that are 60 years of age and older and we have we actually have a good number of golfers in their 80s that are doing speed training and gaining speed and sending us notes over and saying this is a game changer, it&#8217;s really fun, and they like the structure of how we have it. Like I think that&#8217;s one of the fun things. So one thing we&#8217;ve done cause we have tons of when now we have close to 30,000 users that are doing the stack and we charted. We charted age on the X axis and speed on the Y axis and what you see is you see this peak in club and speed. This is just of all of our users, right? You see this peak around 40 years old of club and speed. And then after that, after you hit age 40, up to our 80, 90 year olds that are using it, you see this decline that&#8217;s going down about one mile an hour per year. So if you are over the age of 40, approximately gaining like maintaining speed is actually gaining speed. That&#8217;s another perspective to have on this for the older golfer. Right, if you&#8217;re maintaining, you&#8217;re gaining on your peers. 0:52:17 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroOne of the things that we&#8217;ve been talking about a lot lately on the show is simply the fact that that whole crowd, and I would say even the 35 and 40 and beyond, tend to just kind of neglect the need to move fast and to keep that in your, just in your repertoire. And whether that be speed training, whether that be doing some things in the gym that just get your body and utilizing all of our tissues, tend to get a little tighter, a little stiff, a little less elastic, and it&#8217;s something that we can train. And obviously you guys are seeing this with the stack, and I mean up into your 80s, you can make improvements or at least really prevent any kind of loss there, or most of the loss. So that&#8217;s just so refreshing to hear, especially because you have the science and the data behind it to show people like, hey, once you hit 40, it&#8217;s not over, you still put in the work, you can make significant, significant gains. 0:53:11 &#8211; Marty JertsonOh, yeah, no, absolutely. We have stackers that have trained in their mid 50s, early 60s that have gained. Maybe they&#8217;ve lost five miles an hour speed or last decade, but now that they go with the stack they do a couple of programs and they gain 10, and now they&#8217;re faster than they&#8217;ve ever been in these 55 or 60. This is definitely possible. The other thing I was gonna say, which I&#8217;ve personally changed my mind on or I guess was an unintended consequence of the stack is that there&#8217;s a lot of value to swinging fast and training without the consequence of hitting the ball right. So I think a lot of golf coaches and teachers are very focused on hey, I need you to get to hit the center of the face and things of that nature. There&#8217;s plenty of time to work on that skill. You have three technique and golf lessons. There&#8217;s a lot of value to swinging an object fast with no consequence to hitting a golf ball. That was definitely something that I&#8217;ve really leaned into and enjoyed and that a lot of our customers I think are enjoying about training with the staff. 0:54:23 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroTechnique was gonna be my next question, because I&#8217;ve had people say well, I don&#8217;t wanna ingrain. If I&#8217;m already working on my swing, I don&#8217;t have my technique down, I don&#8217;t wanna ingrain this improper swing and be swinging out of my shoes. How much are you thinking about technique at all when you&#8217;re swinging the stack, or is it simply go as fast as you can? 0:54:44 &#8211; Marty JertsonI think so that&#8217;s another thing. I work on my technique while I&#8217;m stacking. So let&#8217;s say I have a, you know, some restriction. My hip turn here and I wanna get in more side bend. I want to increase my hand path length. I want to work on getting more spike, the pressure under my lead foot more earlier in the transition to get more vertical force. I will actually do those wall stacking and it&#8217;s way easier to take that swing change again because I have no consequence to hitting the ball. I&#8217;m working on movements. I&#8217;m working on very like kind of internal focus of things and then when you go play golf, those things are in hit a golf ball. Those changes are baked in more because I&#8217;ve trained them while training the stack and one of the other things about speed training with the stack it&#8217;s because you get feedback on your speeds, literally every single swing. It&#8217;s maximum feedback. You get feedback on your speeds. Golfers can self explore what things are gonna increase their speed. Right, let&#8217;s say you&#8217;re a golfer, you start with hip mobility and you&#8217;re gonna go in there. You&#8217;re gonna be like I&#8217;m gonna try lifting my lead heel, I&#8217;m gonna do the step drill, I&#8217;m gonna step with the right hand of golfer. You&#8217;re gonna take a little step with your left foot, will go in the transition of your swing. You can experiment with those things. I&#8217;m gonna try a bigger shoulder turn. I&#8217;m gonna let my neck come back. I&#8217;m gonna do all these things. A longer hand path I&#8217;m gonna try some things with my wrist angles. I&#8217;m gonna try a faster backswing and you can see immediately does that spike your speeds graph? So the instant, continuous feedback to help drive your speeds is another great benefit in the stack. I just think people need to get over that worry that oh, it&#8217;s gonna ruin my tempo, it&#8217;s gonna ruin my technique. You&#8217;ve seen that Fitzpatrick literally training on the stack and winning the US Open. Do you think it&#8217;s 40 of them or not? You know Victor Hoffman. He&#8217;s got crazy on the stack. He&#8217;s driving it longer and straighter than ever. 0:56:56 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroIt&#8217;s so fun to watch these guys these days and I was talking to a PGA Tour player the other day and he&#8217;s like man. I was watching Fitzpatrick hit the ball the other day and it&#8217;s just amazing to see from a year and a half ago or two years ago or whatever to now and just how different it is and how much change he&#8217;s made. It&#8217;s pretty special. 0:57:15 &#8211; Marty JertsonI think what&#8217;s fun about him is he&#8217;s not a mega athlete. You know, he&#8217;s not Brooks Kepke out there all buff and ripped and do all the stuff. He&#8217;s in great shape, don&#8217;t get me wrong, but he just looks like your average bill person, is somebody we could all relate to. 0:57:32 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroTotally All right. I got to ask you about the stack putting because you know we think the stack, we think speed we think. But then I hear, no, there&#8217;s a stack putting now. 0:57:42 &#8211; Marty JertsonThere&#8217;s more. 0:57:43 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroTell me more. Tell me more. So give us a lowdown on stack putting. I know we&#8217;re running a little low on time here, so we&#8217;ll give kind of the short, brief version, because we got some questions asked before we close up. But stack putting where did this come from and how&#8217;s it doing? I think yeah. 0:57:59 &#8211; Marty JertsonSo I think both Sasha and I, like we&#8217;re busy people like everyone else, like we got jobs, families, like all this stuff in a big theme for both of us is what is the most effective use of time when I&#8217;m practicing or training? We don&#8217;t want to waste time, right, so we again, we wanted to productize this. People go to the putty green and they have it&#8217;s too open ended. They have no idea what to do. They have no idea. You ask people that miss left or they miss right. People can&#8217;t remember. If they do give you an answer, who knows if it&#8217;s right or wrong? They have no stats to back it up and so stack putting is like having Sasha so guide you to play 18 holes on the putting green. That is the most intentional practice of 15 minutes on the putting green. The app guides you through playing 18 holes on the putting green. It tells you which putts to hit and you&#8217;re hitting the putts that matter the most. From a strokes game putting perspective, that means the puts that mean the most to your score, the lower your score. And then it gives you really cool analytics to show you what your tendencies are Right, so it&#8217;ll. It could show you that you miss left or right, or 90% of the time to the left, and without tracking it you wouldn&#8217;t, you would have no idea, like people don&#8217;t, don&#8217;t know that information. So that actually the analytics in there are really cool. Spider diagrams and things of that nature are more advanced and more nuanced than even PJ Tour players get with shot link data. So, yeah, it&#8217;s super cool. Then you can create your own little programs in there with the creative mode and then you could also track very detailed your on course, putting stats as well. So, yeah, if you&#8217;re if you&#8217;re a stack or a speed trainer, you get actions to it or you can just download and do stack putting directly. Now, very intentional focus putting practice, awesome, I love there&#8217;s a quote. 0:59:52 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroI&#8217;m trying to think who was. I think it was Trent Werner, another another PJ instructor that we work with, and he said golf is the worst practice sport on the planet. And what&#8217;s so cool is seeing things like this that are coming, coming about to really help guide us. Just like you were saying before, when designing clubs, if a designer doesn&#8217;t have any kind of like walls or anything like any direction, like we can go anywhere. And same thing with putting practice golf go to the driving range is like you can go, spend hours and hours and come back and not have achieved a single thing. 1:00:24 &#8211; Marty JertsonWe&#8217;re trying to change that, we&#8217;re trying to do it. So the stack, the speed training it tells you exactly what to do, when to do it. Send a calendar, swing it when the countdown timer goes on. You can put reminders on your phone, send them to your calendar and then putting is the same way. Do exactly this. And people love, not that not having that open, open emptiness. 1:00:44 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroAwesome. All right, Marty. A couple of questions just to finish up here with the 18STRONG crew. First of all, you caddy shack, or happy Gilmore guy. 1:00:53 &#8211; Marty JertsonI have to go caddy shack just because it&#8217;s I think it&#8217;s going to stay on the test of time better, you know. But I love them both. But I&#8217;d slight, slight tip of the needle, the caddy shack. 1:01:06 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroIf you get to pick a walkup song, what&#8217;s your walkup song to the first T box? 1:01:12 &#8211; Marty JertsonI&#8217;ve been playing this song lately in my car before my tournaments. Try to get me pumped up. I don&#8217;t even know how I found this thing, but it&#8217;s by DJ Snake. He&#8217;s, like you know, EDM type artist or whatever, called bird machine and my big name is. My big name is journey bird for birdie you know, and I&#8217;m like I want to be a bird machine when I go out and play this tournament, so I don&#8217;t know why it&#8217;s a strange one, but let&#8217;s begin me pumped up. 1:01:36 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroI cannot wait to listen to that song. All right, is there a book that you&#8217;ve read in your past that has meant a lot to you, that you&#8217;ve learned a lot from and that maybe you tend to recommend to people? 1:01:50 &#8211; Marty JertsonYeah, I feel I have so many domains of life, like you got my family life, my work life, my corporate life, my startup life, then my, my golf life, my fitness life I kind of have a favorite in each category. I&#8217;m in the golf world, I think I mentioned every shot counts by more Brody Yep. So from a golf domain perspective of my life, I like that one. I really like joc-o-wheel-anks, I think extreme ownership. I loved applying that to aid my personal life, my family, my kids. You know how to empower people, build people up and bring that into the working world. It&#8217;s kind of a contemporary one. I like the older books that stand the test of time more, but I love the principles in that book. 1:02:34 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroExcellent If you could pick a dream for some who&#8217;s who&#8217;s your dream for some that you get to play with Anyone in the world, past, present. You can, and you can take them anywhere. 1:02:44 &#8211; Marty JertsonYou know what, man, I&#8217;m going to say? I&#8217;m living the dream because right now I&#8217;m playing. I&#8217;ve been playing along golf this summer with my wife and my two boys. My wife, my two boys we got the perfect foursome and they&#8217;re they&#8217;re getting old. I have to really like enjoy golf and just kind of move around the golf course, and I&#8217;ve actually I&#8217;ve loved that more than anything. Playing with my family, that&#8217;s so awesome. How old are the boys? They&#8217;re seven and nine, almost 10. Great age. 1:03:11 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroGreat ages, great ages, all right. So follow up question to that If you could take that foursome. We&#8217;ve got the 18STRONG jet. We&#8217;ve got a fueled up ready to go. Marty&#8217;s taking the wife and the kiddos anywhere you want to go play golf. Where are you going to take? 1:03:26 &#8211; Marty Jertsonthem. It&#8217;s hard not to say Augusta, because how else are you going to get on that thing unless you&#8217;re on the 18STRONG jet? Flying right in there. I&#8217;ve been there a few times but man, that&#8217;s the one that I mean. You know, even people very connected in the golf industry never, never, get away to get on that thing, augusta let&#8217;s do it. 1:03:46 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroWhat&#8217;s the coolest place that you have been able to get on? 1:03:51 &#8211; Marty JertsonMan, I&#8217;ve played some great courses over the years, you know. I think Oakmont was a great one. I mean I played the whole course with my wife and my father-in-law. I played there a couple times Turnberry in Scotland. I&#8217;ve been able to play some of the great links courses in Scotland. Yeah, I mean the whole course is. The whole course, quite frankly, was very tough to be, you know, just for the whole history of it, and being able to play that a few times has been awesome. 1:04:18 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroVery cool. All right, is there a social media account that you&#8217;ve been following, maybe geeking out on a little bit that you recommend to the 18STRONG crew, and this could be golf, this could be fitness, this could be anything, this could be the bird machine guys. 1:04:34 &#8211; Marty JertsonThere&#8217;s one I really like. I really like what these guys do is called data golf, and they do. They have a lot of great analytics on their website. That&#8217;s kind of you know, free to use and explore. It&#8217;s a great way to explore like applied statistics from the golf industry and they always run really cool little 10 bits and nuggets from golf tournaments around the world. So data golf super fun to check it out. If you&#8217;re either a golf golf gig or a general data geek, check them out. 1:05:05 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroAll right, I didn&#8217;t prep you with this question, just going to throw this one in there. If you got to play your home course and you&#8217;re playing against our buddy Drew Sleazy Stoltz, how many shots is who beating who by? You get to pick the course. 1:05:21 &#8211; Marty JertsonMan, drew, drew. I gotta say Drew plays more golf than me, right? So that I think we&#8217;re going to be pretty tight. Actually, I think I&#8217;m probably at the most if we&#8217;re playing a lot of golf, like give them like one aside. But he&#8217;s part of these amateurs here in Arizona that play more golf than the pros and, quite frankly, probably play better than the pros. 1:05:45 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroIs there a? Is there a transfusions handicap in there at all? 1:05:51 &#8211; Marty JertsonExactly. Sleazy man is good man. I tell you what he needs. I think next year might be the year they get that four ball championship That&#8217;d be sick. 1:05:59 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroThat would be sick, all right man. Last thing what&#8217;s the best piece of golf advice that you&#8217;ve ever been given? 1:06:06 &#8211; Marty JertsonSomething that started with me a lot, you know and I think has helped me in big tournaments, in a general, even teach my kids is one very simple quote, which is move to relax. I think a golf you kind of like, even when you&#8217;re putting everyone&#8217;s holding their frozen, you&#8217;re like dense still lighting up a thousand times and then you know, and then the anxiety builds and things of that nature. I&#8217;ve turned into being like a very kind of static player to moving a lot. I waggle, I move when I tap my putter. I&#8217;ve, you know, kind of prime my nervous system before I try to hit a long drive, like the waggle is very big how you move before you swing. So I would say, even when it&#8217;s like short game stuff where you&#8217;re trying to be very precise on your putting, you&#8217;ll be afraid to move waggle, jiggle, wiggle, move to relax. 1:06:58 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroVery cool. All right, Marty. Last thing where can everybody find you find information about the stack? We&#8217;ll link it all up in the show notes. 1:07:05 &#8211; Marty JertsonYeah, definitely Thestacksystem.com Check us out there. Social media we got some really cool social media. You can see all of our stackers out there training and sharing their progress, gaining speed and having a lot of fun. So join that community. On the social side Folks can find me, or primarily on Twitter, twitter slash X, now at at Jerty Bird, j-e-r-t-y-b-i-r-d. Give me up, I&#8217;m so into kind of the whole trying to get better community and, you know, connecting the fitness side to the speed training side, to the design, the performance. So fun to have some good, fun conversations there. 1:07:42 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroYeah, man, this was so good and thank you so much for taking the time. It&#8217;s really cool to see what, first of all, you guys are doing at Ping, obviously, but what you and Sasha were doing and really, you know, trying to bring us all to a better way of practicing, better skills and really kind of dialing everything in. So thanks for your time here, Marty. Yeah, you got a lot of fun to join. Jeff, thanks for listening to the 18STRONG podcast. Don&#8217;t forget to go follow us over on Instagram at 18strong, and if you found this episode helpful and want to help us spread the 18STRONG mission, we&#8217;d really appreciate if you shared with your friends. Train hard, practice smart and play better golf.

Play355. GFY Ft. Bobby Drummond: The Road to Sobriety, Fitness, and STRONGER Golf Guest: Bobby Drummond (18STRONG Crew, 40-Day FORGER)Host: Jeff PelizzaroEpisode Number: 355Podcast: The 18STRONG PodcastPartners: Linksoul, 1stPhorm Summary Get ready to be inspired by the story of Bobby Drummond, a golfer who made a remarkable transformation. His journey from struggling with addiction and weight gain to achieving physical and mental health will captivate you. Bobby&#8217;s conversion, which led him from an 8 handicap to a 1.2, is a testament to the significant role of a small swing path change, thanks to Ray Farnell, a teaching pro at Whitmore Country Club. Bobby&#8217;s triumphs, however, go beyond the golf course. Prepare to embark on a walk with Bobby as he shares how the tragic loss of a friend and a broken relationship sparked a profound change in him, leading him down a path of sobriety. His transformative journey through the 40-Day FORGE and 75 Hard Program, shedding a whopping 70 pounds in 99 days, has redefined his life both on and off the green. Hear how he discovered the power of a good routine, laser focus, visualization, and a supportive community to succeed in golf and life. And guess what? Bobby&#8217;s transformation isn&#8217;t just a physical one. He opens up about how sobriety and a fresh mental approach have turned his golf game around. His favorite golf topics and his dream foursome are bound to pique your interest. So join us, as we journey alongside Bobby through his highs and lows, demonstrating that change is indeed possible when determination meets a supportive community. You don&#8217;t want to miss out on Bobby&#8217;s story, a testament to the power of personal growth and the impact of a healthy lifestyle on golf performance. Main Topics (00:03) Bobby Drummond&#8217;s 40-Day Transformation Bobby Drummond shares his experiences with the 40 Day Forge and 75 Hard Program, discussing similarities and differences, and how it improved his golf and life. (03:33) Golf Game and Personal Transformation Bobby&#8217;s golf game has improved from 8 to 1.2, aided by Ray Farnell and sobriety, plus childhood experiences and competitive high school play. (09:42) From Partying to Sobriety Bobby Drummond&#8217;s journey of sobriety, spurred by his ex-girlfriend and a friend&#8217;s death, includes walking, sobriety podcasts, and a wellness coach. (15:38) Journey to Self-Improvement and Lifestyle Changes Bobby shares his experience of walking miles, changing his diet, and taking on the 75 Hard Challenge, aided by an 80-90% clean diet. (19:44) Weight Loss Journey and Lifestyle Changes Bobby overcame drinking habits, lost 70 pounds in 99 days, and found comfort in not drinking with help from an accountability partner. (29:39) Discussion on Fitness and Partnerships Bobby shares his transition from 75 Hard to Forge 2, focusing on impactful 40 minutes, Sunday smash sessions, commitment to a healthy lifestyle, and joining EFA Empire. (36:06) Improving Golf Performance and Personal Growth Bobby shares his transformation journey, discussing physical exercise, recovery, resistance training, weight training, cold showers, and healthier eating. (48:20) Impact of Mentality on Golf Game Bobby shares his experience of mental breakdowns, the importance of routine, laser focus, visualization, 80-second moments, and recognizing the next shot. (56:50) Favorite Golf Memories and Recommendations Bobby shares his transition from 75 Hard Challenge to Forge 2, his appreciation for Dave Matthews, his favorite book, his bucket list course, and how physical exercise and recovery have impacted his golf game. (01:07:19) Finding Community and Belonging Bobby Drummond shares his journey of finding belonging through community, Forge 2 program, and golf topics such as his walk-up song and dream foursome. Follow Bobby Drummond Instagram: @bobby_drummond Links Mentioned: 40-Day FORGE 75HARD Episode Partners: LINKSOUL:&nbsp;For your 20% discount on LINKSOUL gear, go to&nbsp;18strong.com/linksoul&nbsp;or click the logo above. 1st Phorm: Try any of the 1st Phorm products with FREE SHIPPING, go to 1stphorm.com/18strong.com (By using this link, you will be entered into our Monthly 1st Phorm Giveaway!) More Cool Stuff to Check Out: To continue the conversation and ask any questions you may have, head over to the&nbsp;18STRONG Movement group on Facebook. 18STRONG Pro Shop (Get your 18STRONG gear!) 18STRONG Resources (All of the cool stuff we recommend: products, books, golf stuff, etc &#8211; and discount codes for the 18STRONG Crew) Want the full episode transcript? (click the &#8220;+&#8221; ????????) 0:00:04 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroThe 18STRONG Podcast, episode Number 355 GFY with Bobby Drummond. Hey guys, welcome back to the 18STRONG Podcast, where we&#8217;re here to help you build a stronger game, because we believe everyone deserves to play better, longer. This episode is a groundbreaking one. This is our first ever GFY Go Forge Yourself episode with my good friend, bobby Drummond. The Go Forge Yourself episodes are basically going to be us talking to people in the 18STRONG community that have been through the 40-Day forge, our plan and program that is geared towards helping you improve and get stronger physically, mentally, both on the golf course and off the golf course, and so in this episode, we&#8217;re sitting down with Bobby, who has an amazing story that started several years ago His transformation from weight loss to stopping drinking to playing better golf. Everything that he&#8217;s done over the last several years has been incredible, and you&#8217;re going to hear more about that in this episode. Bobby&#8217;s one of my good friends, but he&#8217;s also one of the better golfers that I play with on a regular basis, and so you&#8217;re going to get an insight into what the experience was like, not just of the 40-Day forge, but Bobby also did the 75 hard program the similarities and the differences in mindset that occurred throughout both of those challenges and through both of those programs, and hopefully you&#8217;re going to get a glimpse into what the 40-Day forge has done, not just to for Bobby, but for other individuals in the 18STRONG community. So we&#8217;re going to be doing a lot more of these episodes over the course of the next year and hopefully we&#8217;re going to continue to build out how many people are going through the forge and making huge differences and changes in their lives, not just on the golf course, but really in every aspect of their life. I think it&#8217;s really easy to have the experts and the professional golfers on our podcast and listen to their stories, but feel like that&#8217;s a little out of touch for all of us normal people living regular lives, raising families, going to work every single day. So I think that these episodes are really going to be very cool to see that transformation and hopefully help you realize that you&#8217;re strong enough to do whatever it is you&#8217;re looking to do, whatever goal you are choosing to set. That this is hopefully just some sort of inspiration to help you make that decision and make that commitment, and we&#8217;ll get into that right after this. Our partners over at Linksoul have been providing us with the best apparel for both on the course and off the course, from polos to t-shirts like the one I have on right now. Everything that they have is meant to be worn from the golf course to wherever you&#8217;re going next, whether that be casual, whether that be to the beach, there&#8217;s all different options over there. So go to 18STRONG.com slash Linksoul. You&#8217;ll get 20% off of anything in your cart over on Linksoul&#8217;s website. So again, 18STRONG.com, slash Linksoul for our favorite brand of apparel for anything on the golf course and off. Now let&#8217;s get to this week&#8217;s interview, bobby Drummond. Hello, what&#8217;s? 0:03:20 &#8211; Bobby Drummondup man. Welcome to the 18strong podcast. Thanks, man. 0:03:23 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroSo this is cool. This is going to be our very first ever GFY episode Go forward yourself episode talking about the 40-Day forge. So we&#8217;ll get into all of that. But first of all we&#8217;re just kind of bantering about your golf game. Sound like you had a pretty good round. How&#8217;s the game right? 0:03:38 &#8211; Bobby Drummondnow. So it&#8217;s funny it went. It&#8217;s gone in waves this entire season, from like a winter of simulator golf, which was just hammering as hard as you could into the screen and see how far you could hit us, to getting out on the course Remembering what it was like to hit off the grass, shooting like two rounds in the 90s, to getting the game better, mental game better. Shot two rounds under par this year, couple even round, even rounds out there as well and, yeah, it&#8217;s good. Right now it goes in waves, as the golf game does. 0:04:13 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroAbsolutely so. For those of you listening watching Bobby and I, we get a chance to play some golf together. Bobby was part of our mandatory golf Friday and is definitely one of the higher caliber golfers in that crew, I&#8217;d say. So, over the last couple of years. What&#8217;s the what&#8217;s kind of the handicap been like? I mean, have you? So? What is your handicap? These, days. 0:04:32 &#8211; Bobby DrummondSo I know exactly. It&#8217;s a 1.2 right now. All right, 1.2. 0:04:37 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroSo over the last few years have you been like, steadily declining. What&#8217;s the game in? 0:04:41 &#8211; Bobby Drummondlike a last couple of years. Yeah, so I. I was about in 2020 and this may be something else you want to talk about but whenever I stopped drinking back in 2020. 0:04:49 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroOh, we&#8217;re talking about that for sure. 0:04:51 &#8211; Bobby DrummondI figured we might. But in 2020 is when I really thought, okay, now that I have a clear mind, I can probably start focusing on some other stuff that I really do love like, like golf, and I was probably about an eight handicap or so, okay, and it got it down joined Whitmore country club whenever the Piedadema kick because there was nothing else to do. So I decided to spend my money on that new clubs, I got fitted for clubs and stuff like that and I just started working on my game. I got one lesson with one of the teaching pros at Whitmore Shout out to Ray Farnell, who&#8217;s awesome and changed like one tiny thing and that changed my game, like at that point. But then over the last couple of years it&#8217;s really been my swing probably hasn&#8217;t changed at all, but I focused on getting stronger in the mental games. It&#8217;s been the biggest thing and honestly, this year, nothing except for the mental game, really kind of a couple of tiny, tiny things here and there, like, honestly, the tiniest little change in grip, like where&#8217;s my, where&#8217;s my left thumb at, how strong is my grip, how weak is my grip, and that&#8217;s been the biggest, biggest change. And then just my attitude on the course. 0:06:00 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroWhat did so? I&#8217;m sure people want to know what. What did you and Ray? What was the one little thing that you and Ray worked on? 0:06:06 &#8211; Bobby DrummondSure, so, as Ray would say, it was my swing path, cause he&#8217;s got, I can&#8217;t do a good accent for for Ray and his Australian ways. But that was it. I was taking the club a little bit too far inside in what felt like me taking the club straight back, felt like I was taking it super far out. That was the main change that we made and other than that, just feeling like athletic over the ball. I played all sorts of sports growing up big ones, theme, basketball, baseball, and then most I still play a lot of volleyball. So just want to feel athletic whenever I&#8217;m doing anything, not feeling robotic or mechanical and outside of the swing path and just a couple like little cues here and there. Those have been my the biggest things that I&#8217;ve changed. 0:06:54 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroDid you? Did you grow up playing golf? What was your like? 0:06:58 &#8211; Bobby Drummondchildhood golf experience like Sure. I was playing golf at like 10 years old and my grandma actually was the one who I played a lot of golf with. And not to discredit my dad, cause I played a ton of golf with my dad too. I was actually a member at hidden valley, whenever hidden valley. 0:07:13 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroYeah, did you ever also ski slopes here Also? 0:07:16 &#8211; Bobby Drummondnow only ski slopes, no more golf there, but that was the helliest course ever. I did a lot of my playing out there. Ian didn&#8217;t Florida Whenever I say that like I live there, but every time we went on vacation there I would play with my grandma and grow up watching Tiger Woods. So I think everyone who&#8217;s around my age I got into golf probably because of Tiger. They weren&#8217;t getting into it because of Phil, let&#8217;s be honest, right, even though Phil was great there for a while. But that&#8217;s how I got into it, started playing a bunch and grandma always said like she wouldn&#8217;t play with me if I threw my clubs, cause I&#8217;ve always ran a little bit on the higher side, which a lot of people have seen, just cause I&#8217;m competitive and I protect my own. But yeah, so that&#8217;s kind of how I got my start into. It was playing golf in early age with my grandma. I just trying to. I mean, I played so much out of hidden valley I almost never practiced. I feel like playing is my practice. 0:08:15 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroYeah, did you play competitively or just for fun? 0:08:19 &#8211; Bobby Drummondwhen you&#8217;re a kid. Two, so two years in high school freshman year, sophomore year, at CBC I played golf on those teams. Junior year I literally had the shanks and I could not hit a ball to save my life. You still didn&#8217;t try out. So I decided not to try out that year and that&#8217;s actually when I found volleyball Okay, and that&#8217;s the only reason why I got into volleyball, cause I had the shanks. And I still played a junior and senior year, but just for more for sport than anything else. And into college I played with my buddies, but it was more drinking and party and then, yeah, so it was cool, but for the most part it was just for the, for the fun, right. 0:08:59 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroOkay, so speaking of the drinking, the partying, so one of the reasons I wanted to have you on and really excited for you to be the first episode here is because I know I know a lot of your backstory. I don&#8217;t know all of it, so he will dig into as much as you want to share it, sure, and you know the forge and just your whole transformation, so give me a little glimpse into. Obviously this can be an episode kind of about your transformation, so kind of tell as much of the back story as you want to, yeah, and then maybe what was the catalyst of really making you kind of flip the switch and, and you know, make some of these huge, huge changes, right? 0:09:35 &#8211; Bobby DrummondSo there&#8217;s I could. There are so many short versions, a long versions of this, so I&#8217;ll try to keep it kind of medium In between. But I mean, I came from like just one school, Mizzou, and was like a party. You was always just something like it seemed like you did whenever you went to, especially at school, like Mizzou, it&#8217;s just, it&#8217;s a fun time. And after I graduated I just kind of continued to do the party and having the fun. And I graduated I lived in Seward, which is like its own little island of a, of a tramp Honestly Right If you don&#8217;t have discipline like me up until recently but then lived downtown and just always around all the action, always around all of the fun. So I wanted to just continue to just throw myself into those fun situations and I prioritize a lot of that over what should have been a lot more important to me. So I was a little bit of blinded by that. I actually come from a family of somatics and so I didn&#8217;t really think about any of that. I thought I was okay, because I had a good job and I did throughout that entire process, but it just got to a point where it was really bad. I didn&#8217;t really see it. I was almost too close to see it where it was. I mean drinking at lunches and I&#8217;ll be completely transparent like drinking and driving on the way home from work each day. And I got to a point where it was I mean, it wasn&#8217;t just a drinking, there were some drugs and stuff like that too. But I didn&#8217;t even see myself go from someone who was in shape and I worked really hard against my metabolism and got up to about 260-270 somewhere around there and I didn&#8217;t even really notice it. But I always said, hey, I want to do this, I want to make this change. But the compound effect of just doing the same thing day in and day out drinking and smoking, pot, stuff like that, eating like shit all just led to a point where I was really unhappy with myself, and in which case I also found myself in a pretty like unhappy relationship. No ill will or anything like that as far as that goes, but I just was too close to see that I needed to make some changes and then I&#8217;d all came to a head when me and my ex we decided we were going to break up. We still were living together and we were trying to figure out how to transition out of that. The two nights later, on a Monday night, actually got just loaded and drove home. Should not have. Ironically, the last place that I ever had a drink was Bobby&#8217;s place in Valley Park, and I don&#8217;t remember driving home, was in and out, was going. I just remember seeing the flash of me going over 100 miles per hour on the way home. So not cool, right? Obviously something that should not do. I could have hurt myself, I could have heard someone else, I could have ended up in jail and next morning ex kicked me out and said, hey, you got to leave. I left and that day I knew that I needed to stop drinking for good. I had been told that multiple times by some people before, but it wasn&#8217;t until that, just like with any addict, it doesn&#8217;t matter what someone says to you, you have to want it, and in that moment I knew that I had to make that change. So that was on a Tuesday morning, june 23rd, when I got kicked out of there in 2020. That afternoon, my co-worker&#8217;s son, I found out, was pronounced brain dead Over the weekend. I did not know this, but her son was hit by a drunk driver and on Tuesday afternoon she had to pull the plug on her son and then fast forward to Thursday. Thursday night, one of my best friends, cory, actually was killed in a drunk driving accident. So from I knew I needed to stop to seeing someone affected by it, and I knew I needed to make a change then to what happened with my buddy Cory. I knew that I was making the right decision to stop and I don&#8217;t know if those things wouldn&#8217;t have happened if I still would have stayed strong and not drank, but that&#8217;s when I knew I had to stop and that&#8217;s when I started my process of. That&#8217;s when I started also my wellness journey, really, and Kelly Baker or Kelly Bugger now she actually so I trained with her there for a while and I&#8217;m going through a lot of this, but I saw coast that she put up about walking like 10,000 steps a day and this was a couple days after everything had happened with my buddy and I was just like I need to start walking and I so much of the weight that I gained was all information and just stuff that I just needed to just go walk, totally right. So I started doing that every single day, sort of listening to a sobriety podcast called sobercast and there&#8217;s just literally recorded AA meetings. I never did any sort of formal like AA or anything like that, because it was COVID, there was no readings to attend, except for virtual ones, and I was not that I couldn&#8217;t do the virtual, but it just wasn&#8217;t as intimate and I didn&#8217;t feel like it would make a big impact on me. So I would listen to this podcast that was just recorded AA meetings from anywhere from like the 50s to today and I would find myself listening to these, going on these long walks, like literally in tears, like hearing other people tell these stories, where I felt that exact same way and I engrossed myself into not only walking and doing that, but then that&#8217;s when I started my first round of 75 hard back in 2020. 0:15:38 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroSo, yeah, a lot of stuff happened in order for me to get there so that that first week you know and I didn&#8217;t know the story about the those two, your from your buddy, corey, and your co-worker son. I mean, man, how crazy. So you? You start this journey, you&#8217;re you&#8217;re starting, you&#8217;re walking, you&#8217;re starting to listen to these things. What are you telling yourself at this time, when you&#8217;re, you know, when you&#8217;re on these walks, when you&#8217;re not listening to these podcasts, you know what are some of the things go at your head? And then I want you to even go into the 75 part, because that&#8217;s that&#8217;s for the people that have listened to the episode about the forge 75 hard had a big impact on us creating the force, the way that it is created and and you know it was obviously a big catalyst for you and and how you kind of continue to go forward, yeah, so, uh, as far as I like thoughts going through my head and stuff like that, I don&#8217;t know, I just I couldn&#8217;t sleep. 0:16:36 &#8211; Bobby DrummondSo I and it wasn&#8217;t so much like I didn&#8217;t have any weird like withdrawals, where a lot of times when people come out of like if they&#8217;re drinking a lot of stuff like that, a lot of times they have some issues and actually need to. They need medicine. Fortunately and unfortunately, it was mostly beer that I drank, so it wasn&#8217;t like I was drinking a fifth of vodka day, but, trust me, I drank more than enough beers for everyone in this gym right now. It for a week&#8217;s time probably. But a lot of what was going through my head was just, I couldn&#8217;t sleep. I&#8217;d wake up at 330 in the morning. I would go on these long walks anywhere from two miles to 10 miles just would walk until I just felt like I didn&#8217;t want to walk anymore, cause it was the middle of the pandemic, I had no work to come back to, and whenever I, whenever I left, whenever I left my ex&#8217;s place, I stayed with my parents, so I didn&#8217;t really want to go back home. There&#8217;s shame in that, obviously. But there&#8217;s not at the end of the day, like I treasure that time that I had with them. But it&#8217;s not like a good feeling as a 30 year old to go back and feel like you&#8217;re stuck, especially for someone who was doing doing great in their job. But I but obviously had some other issues. And then from like how I I guess I started walking cause I saw Kelly&#8217;s post and really wanted to get into just taking better care of myself. I knew I had some weight to lose and that&#8217;s when I already knew about 75 hard because I would. I would tell my ex I said, hey, I think I want to do this challenge and she would say, yeah, there&#8217;s no way that you can do that. You&#8217;ll never be able to stop drinking. So kind of like that that Andy for sell out crabs in the bucket theory like, oh no, you don&#8217;t need to do that Cause you&#8217;re. You&#8217;ll never stop. And that&#8217;s not her fault, that&#8217;s me. But one of the things that I decided was okay, I can do this now I&#8217;m sober, I&#8217;ve that&#8217;s the hardest thing that was on that list before was the no alcohol for 75 days, and now I&#8217;m planning on making this a lifestyle change forever. So the next hardest thing on there was follow a diet plan. I&#8217;m like I don&#8217;t know what the hell that means. Follow a diet plan? I&#8217;m like, was that me? No carbs Like what am I? Just a rabbit for 75 days? So I I hired Kelly as by like a nutrition coach and went through a whole assessment and actually I don&#8217;t even know where those pictures. I had to get those pictures, but at that point I was already 35 pounds down. Just from walking, I lost a pound a day and not drinking, and that&#8217;s right. Yes, that&#8217;s a big part of it. I was still eating like Jimmy Johns and stuff, though I tell you I hadn&#8217;t had the diet arc figured out yet, but went to her, got that assessment, figured out what that looked like to follow a diet plan and make some good like lifestyle changes. And I even read your, your, what are you? What do you call those? like a daily newsletter your emails that you sent out this morning talking about like an 80 to 90% clean diet. That was today&#8217;s buzzer. 0:19:37 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroWas that yesterday Okay? 0:19:39 &#8211; Bobby DrummondYep, I read that this morning and I&#8217;ve been. That&#8217;s been a really big guideline for me since. But with 75 card, the all the water following the diet plan, the the two workouts a day, those were walks. I, I couldn&#8217;t do anything else. I was too fat to run, so I walked and I never. That was the first time when I really understood, like that you have to walk before you run. And I&#8217;m like, oh, this makes sense, cause I literally can, literally had to walk. Yeah, and over the course of I actually did 75 hard for 99 days and the reason I did is because we started a separate bet with a group of buddies and I so did 75 hard for 99 days and in those 99 days I lost 70 pounds. Wow, but yeah, that was my journey, man Just reading, and I had not picked up a book since Harry Potter in high school and I know I mean that&#8217;s a such a. There&#8217;s so much knowledge out there with different books, podcasts and all that. So jumping into some different books that are helping better me, along with the exercise, along with eating better and just building a routine, I mean Andy Forsella changed my life forever. Yeah, and me and him don&#8217;t always agree, I don&#8217;t know a lot of the things that he talks about, but as he can be a polarizing guy, but like I don&#8217;t like fully credit him, cause at the end of the day I did it. But if it wasn&#8217;t for that program, I don&#8217;t know if I would have found everything that I found in my journey so far. 0:21:10 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroHow, how difficult did you find it through those 99 days probably more so even at the very beginning not drinking and even the struggle of figuring out and I know you had Kelly to help guide you, which I think is a huge, is a huge thing to have somebody that, if you don&#8217;t know where you are, what, where to start or what to do, like, find somebody that knows, find somebody that can help you Right, how difficult was it for you to make those adjustments? Let&#8217;s maybe first go with the alcohol piece. Sure, because it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s great to say like, okay, I&#8217;m going to stop drinking. And then you know you go a month and then you go two months and like, is that something that kind of kept coming back to you? Or is it something where you know you were like nope done and I&#8217;m done for good? 0:21:55 &#8211; Bobby DrummondSo big believer in people made changes either out of inspiration or desperation and I was desperate. I think if I was just inspired to make a change, I can&#8217;t say that it would have stuck. But I know what I like. I saw what I did, the compound effect of it, and I was able to like be self-aware in that moment to say, look at what you did, look at where your body looks, look at how you feel, look at the way you&#8217;ve been acting. And then I was able to look at as far as just I guess, from the alcohol standpoint, I knew what it had done to other people just recently, so I think it was one of those. It just like a switch flipped and I was just like, okay, I&#8217;m done. It also helped that it was the middle of the pandemic where there wasn&#8217;t that pressure to like go to the happy hours and stuff like that, cause I didn&#8217;t live on the St Charles side where COVID didn&#8217;t happen. I lived on the side of Lake of the Ozarks, where it did happen and everything was closed down so there were no opportunities to go do stuff like that, which I think helped as well. But as far as like, just for anyone who&#8217;s especially. I have so many friends since then cause I shared my story very publicly out there on Facebook for people to follow throughout the process and I had a lot of people reach out to me saying that they were interested in stopping asking me about my story and I&#8217;d found a comfortability with, like I could go to the most crowded crazy bar right now and I&#8217;d have no problem just going up and ordering a clip soda with a lime and hanging out. They had a fun. That&#8217;s probably not gonna be my first choice of what I do, but I would be okay. But for a lot of people out there who are wondering, hey, how am I going to do this? I think I mean first thing you gotta do is find like an accountability partner on that. You know almost declare, hey, I&#8217;m gonna do this, even if it&#8217;s for 30 days or for a week or if someone wants to make a lifestyle change. It can be hard, but I never thought I would stop drinking. It&#8217;s wild to me that I&#8217;m three and a half years sober wild but yeah, that&#8217;s amazing. 0:23:59 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroAnd then, what about the food set? Because you know, the food, the food piece, and these are two pieces that are in the Forge IIs, right, this is talking to anybody that hasn&#8217;t been through any kind of a program where you have to stick to this for a long period of time, whether that&#8217;s drinking, the diet piece but the food thing is one of those where you know it&#8217;s not gonna cause harm to other people. It&#8217;s, you know, like. So there&#8217;s a different mentality there, right, sometimes and I think I speak for most people listening, I know I speak for myself sometimes you&#8217;re just like that&#8217;s it, man, I want that piece of cake or those chips or whatever. And so I would imagine it would be fairly easy to rationalize that, hey, I gave up drinking, I can have this. Yeah, did you go through a lot of that, dude? 0:24:47 &#8211; Bobby Drummondyes, I literally ate like half of a bed in Jerry&#8217;s pipe last night. That&#8217;s. My biggest problem is the sweets. So it&#8217;s really easy to then revert from something like alcohol to like, honestly, to any sort of sweet, because it still gives you a little bit of that like little domain or whatever it is. Yeah, for sure it&#8217;s exciting. Who doesn&#8217;t live chomping into half-baked bed in Jerry&#8217;s? I know I do. But so on the diet piece I really like, once I understood what like following a diet plan looks like and what to look for whenever I was shopping. And Kelly was an awesome accountability buddy for me where when I was grocery shopping, I would send her pictures of like the nutritional facts on there and just be like, is this okay? And she&#8217;ll be like, yeah for sure. And I was like, okay, good, but she gave me a really good outline of some things that would be good and some ways to kind of curb some of those cravings that I had. And then finding some substitutes for someone who does love sweets to substitute for like higher percentage dark chocolate or instead drink like a drink, a protein smoothie or a fruit smoothie, and find some joy in some of those like other foods that are still really good and taste great. They&#8217;re just never going to be banjiris. So that was. That was probably the biggest thing for me was just understanding what that looks like, because I think a lot of people&#8217;s heads go straight to a diet is going to be something miserable, where you&#8217;re gonna be starving all the time, where the way that she set it up for me with the goals that I had was like it was. I still had breakfast, lunch and dinner and I had like little snacks that I could have in between, whether those were almonds or a piece of fruit or something like that, to kind of curb some of those cravings throughout the day without feeling like you had to just completely stop eating. 0:26:37 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroRight when you could kind of actually like live a lifestyle around the food, not some depravity kind of diet where you&#8217;re cutting everything out like no cooking, no carbs, eating lettuce. 0:26:48 &#8211; Bobby DrummondRight, yeah, didn&#8217;t have to do anything like that. I still got to enjoy a lot of really good foods. 0:26:53 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroSo then, when was it that you did the forge? Because I know that and really, really that&#8217;s how we kind of connect, I mean separately you work with Kelly, I work with Kelly. But we didn&#8217;t really know each other, we didn&#8217;t really interact. At that point we kind of had set it a little or whatever. But it wasn&#8217;t until, I believe, that you reached out or we connected and you said hey, I&#8217;m thinking about doing the forge. 0:27:18 &#8211; Bobby DrummondYeah, so that would have been, I guess, december of 2022. Right right before the Ford start in January, and I was so in the mid. I was actually in the middle of doing the whole bit part program, all the different phases of 75 hard and I just was thinking, okay, I want something else. I knew this year I wanted to, like, I wanted to have a lot of focus on golf and even though I&#8217;m not playing to make any money except for some side bets, I just I&#8217;m Uber competitive and I want to be as good as I possibly can be. So I figured, with a good routine around, a group like community of some golfers would be a cool group of people to hang around with. Plus, like golf is one of those, even though, where you think you can play it, as you get older and older, I still see people that can&#8217;t go play golf, can&#8217;t swing a golf club, and even though I was in good shape, I thought my thought process was I want some another challenge. I&#8217;m very motivated by having like a finish line out there. I was, I think a lot of other people are too but then also just wanted to be in feel as part of a community with something which was definitely captured with what you have going on with the forge. 0:28:35 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroI want to take just a second to thank our new partner, which I&#8217;m really excited to announce is 1st Phorm. 1st Phorm is a company that is here in St Louis, based in St Louis. It&#8217;s a nutritional company that is doing incredible things in the world of nutrition and one of the reasons that we decided to partner with 1st Phorm is obviously we&#8217;re very impressed with their dedication to their products and the quality of their products. But really it&#8217;s the dedication to them and them helping their customers get real results Aside from just the products. We got a chance to go and actually visit the facility again here in St Louis and really walk the halls of the corporate offices. But we got to see the manufacturing plan or the warehouse. And it&#8217;s not just a place where they&#8217;re packaging supplements and shipping them out. It&#8217;s a culture, it&#8217;s a community and you can see that amongst the employees. You can see that their culture and their core values that are not just pieces of art on their wall. They&#8217;re actually letting them there and they&#8217;re helping to expand those into the community and really that&#8217;s why we partner with 1st Phorm. Obviously, their products are incredible. Otherwise we wouldn&#8217;t suggest them either. We use them on a regular basis, so you&#8217;re going to be hearing a lot more about their products and what they can do for your fitness, what they can do for your golf game, the protein powders, the multivitamins, the protein sticks, the hydration packets all of those products we&#8217;re going to highlight in future episodes. But we just wanted to really celebrate our new partnership with 1st Phorm. You can go to their website, 1stPhorm.com forward slash 18STRONG and we&#8217;re going to be doing a giveaway every single month with anybody that buys through that link. So go to 1stPhorm.com that&#8217;s P-H-O-R-M.com forward slash 18STRONG. That&#8217;ll take you directly to their website and you can check their whole suite of products. It&#8217;s including some of their fitness apparel and anything that&#8217;s purchased over there. You&#8217;re going to be enrolled into our list for our giveaway. A lot of people going into the Forge would balk at the drinking and the diet stuff, or those are kind of conceptually the biggest, hardest pieces for a lot of them. You had already tackled those to some degree. Obviously. The drinking, for you know, completely Right. The diet, you know we can all go in waves with that. What were some of the biggest and different challenges for you with the Forge as opposed to the last year and a half of what you already got, sure, so there&#8217;s some similarities in there, but also some big differences. 0:31:08 &#8211; Bobby DrummondThat a lot of times with the water, I wasn&#8217;t always good with drinking that right when I woke up. So 24 ounces, right, Is it 24 ounces? Right off the bat I had found myself drinking like 34 just because I had a bottle that was that big. So I found myself chugging that first thing in the morning. And the EFDs I&#8217;m assuming I can cuss on this. 0:31:27 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroYes. 0:31:28 &#8211; Bobby DrummondSee, every fucking days. I literally did those this morning. I still do those all the time. That was just another routine to get into the swing of things. But the one thing with 75 hard versus the Forge two is you have just your one IPA right, your intentional physical activity. So where the two workouts was 75 hard, Sometimes I felt like, okay, I can just do recovery day, I can go, I can go walk twice, and there&#8217;s times where a walk like makes sense for recovery, especially if you went hard the day before. But I think it really allowed me to want to do something that was going to be more impactful, a more impactful 40 minutes of my day, rather than just going for a 40 minute walk where I could. I mean we did our Sunday smash sessions here and then, other than that, did some other, some other good lifts and and whatnot to some other workouts. But those were, those were a couple of the biggest things there. And then I mean having anything revolving around golf with the right handed and the left handed swings love doing those. So it was one of those things where I wouldn&#8217;t say it&#8217;d be. I&#8217;d feel like kind of a jerk if I said it was easy for me, but to an extent I had done so much of that already and I was coming off of like the last phase of I think I was coming off of phase one, so it just became a good part of a routine. Especially at the beginning of the year. It&#8217;s really easy to just say I mean, that&#8217;s when a lot of people want to make their changes but they&#8217;re not making them for 40-Days. Right, they might be doing it for a couple of weeks. And diets not always the cleanest. So I think I still think that no drinking and the diet&#8217;s got to be the hardest thing for anybody, anybody coming into this where, like you said, the drinking is easy. For me the diet&#8217;s not easy. I just told you I had to have a pint of Ben and Jerry&#8217;s last night what? I have for dinner. Now, I can&#8217;t remember what I had for dinner last night. I was focused on the Ben and Jerry&#8217;s. But oh, we had tacos. Yeah, and those were delicious. And yeah, not a taco bowl, it was straight up. We had the, we had the flour tortillas and all, but yeah and that comes and goes in waves, and that&#8217;s a. I think that&#8217;s a big thing that I learned this year, where I just recently like I just joined EFA Empire here what it was like three weeks ago, maybe two weeks ago and up until that, this entire summer has been me, from the time I finished phase three of the live hard program that was June 5th, to just a couple of weeks ago, dude I all I did was play golf, that was it so I guess in cardio and stuff like that. But I was into volleyball a little bit here and there, but I wasn&#8217;t lifting and I realized how big of an impact that made on my body. So I just everything with life in general comes in seasons, right, like you&#8217;re going to have, you&#8217;re going to have a moment, you&#8217;re going to have down moments. You just got to try and find that balance. If you ever feel like you&#8217;re out of sorts, go back to what you need and that&#8217;s where the forge is so perfect for that. Or getting committed to something for a set amount of time and see it all the way through. 0:34:33 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroWhat really brings out to me is it seems like every time you&#8217;ve finished something 75 hard or one of the levels, you&#8217;ve kind of thrown yourself right back into something. Yeah, I&#8217;m assuming that&#8217;s by design. Have you has there been a stretch of time where you weren&#8217;t doing some sort of program, like the forge or one of the levels of 75 hard or something where you&#8217;re in the mix of moving towards a specific time? 0:35:02 &#8211; Bobby DrummondYeah, it was just this past summer here, right, it was from June to just a couple of weeks ago, and I let myself go. I mean, I got the pictures of. I started taking pictures again every single day to see what I look like. And, oh, you know, what I didn&#8217;t even talk about was the cold showers I&#8217;ll get. We can talk about that one for sure. But I love those now, but either way, so that&#8217;s that was it like really up until this past June, when I got done with the live hard program, I was like, okay, I can, I&#8217;ve heard it, like I&#8217;m just gonna do whatever I want for a little while. And, dude, I let myself go a little bit and I talked to Shelby, my fiance, about it too, and she knows how like important it is for me to like continue to move my body and stay in and stay in shape, and that&#8217;s why joining here again has completely changed my mindset, where it&#8217;s literally on my calendar getting back into our routine and making sure that I&#8217;m doing this stuff that helps me not only feel better physically, but lifting weights and stuff like that, it helps me mentally as well. 0:36:06 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroWhat? What differences did you notice just specifically in your golf game? Maybe the both, the way your body feels and everything too. But over the course of this summer, when you weren&#8217;t doing this stuff, you weren&#8217;t, you weren&#8217;t getting in the gym, you weren&#8217;t doing probably the EFDs quite as much, you weren&#8217;t doing a lot of the physical stuff aside from going and playing golf and going to a lot of cool places. What did that? What did you notice? 0:36:30 &#8211; Bobby DrummondSo I felt like I did not recover quickly. So whenever I would go play, even though I&#8217;m relatively young, my lower back and my shoulder they were brutal. My right shoulder still does hurt a little bit. I know we were talking about that a little bit, but I&#8217;ve been doing a lot of different exercises for that now, with some resistance, band training and some some weight training as well. But going off of something like that and trying to still go do the physical stuff, you&#8217;re leaving yourself more susceptible to get injured. Your recovery is not going to be as good Like whenever you go, especially as guys, whenever we go. Lift weights or take cold showers, eat healthier and naturally boosts strength, boosting testosterone levels, without having to feel like you need to start doing steroids. Right, definitely like do the natural things that are going to help you get there and getting getting back into this, as I mean it&#8217;s always a huge help. So I mean shoot anyone who&#8217;s stuck and not feeling their best there and it&#8217;s likely because they&#8217;re just not moving their body enough. It&#8217;s. They don&#8217;t need to take a pill, they don&#8217;t need to take more ad bill. They I mean maybe some ad fillary now and then, but probably just need to get back to lifting some weights and doing the stuff that makes you feel good. 0:37:44 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroTell me about the cold showers Okay. 0:37:47 &#8211; Bobby DrummondLove cold showers. Now Literally took one this morning, so that was part of. Obviously that&#8217;s part of the forge I started those originally. Whenever part of phase one is a five minute cold shower, okay. 0:38:02 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroIt&#8217;s five minutes, yes, and during the winter it&#8217;s totally different. Cold during the summer and St Louis in the wintertime is very different. 0:38:12 &#8211; Bobby DrummondSo taking those cold showers at first it was one of those things that, like, I dreaded and it was the thing that I was least excited about, but I would do it first thing in the morning, but now it&#8217;s become part of my. Every time I take a shower I&#8217;ll have, I&#8217;ll use hot water for all my normal stuff and then I&#8217;ll finish with at least two minutes of a cold shower. Now, but especially whenever you&#8217;re doing the forge, if you&#8217;re starting on January 2nd and the cold weather here in St Louis, those pipes are cold. And if you&#8217;re, if you&#8217;re truly doing a cold shower and you crank that to the lowest setting that it can be on without that shower being off, it&#8217;s pretty cold shower. 0:38:52 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroYeah, and I found that you know so many people are doing the cold plunges these days, which is, from a physiological standpoint and from what I understand, is more beneficial, sex wise. But there&#8217;s something about the cold shower because it&#8217;s constantly moving water, hitting some parts of your body and you got to turn around. It&#8217;s like every move you make is almost like I don&#8217;t really want to do this, but it was so for me, like just the mentality and the confidence of like doing that and overcoming those little challenges. I forget what Andrew Huberman called it. I think he calls it like getting over the wall, like there&#8217;s something to be said for the physiological response of the cold shower, but there&#8217;s also something about the different walls that you, that you hurdle over, that you don&#8217;t want to climb over during that piece, and that&#8217;s that&#8217;s the thing that I really, really notice with cold showers. I want to talk about your, just your mentality, speaking of confidence and everything. Now, looking back three and a half years ago, where you were, where you are now, I mean, what does it feel like to know that you&#8217;ve accomplished what you&#8217;ve accomplished? Like when you look at a picture of yourself back then and you think the things you were doing, how you looked, how you felt, like what did? First of all, do you appreciate how much you&#8217;ve you&#8217;ve changed and how much you&#8217;ve done, and just speak to that a little bit for sure? 0:40:16 &#8211; Bobby DrummondSo the first thing that I think of it is I&#8217;m barely scratching the surface and I&#8217;m never satisfied, which is bad, because I have gotten a lot better with practicing gratitude and being appreciative. So I mean, there&#8217;s even more that we haven&#8217;t talked about. With the forge, with the meditation, visualization, visualization, stuff like that. I&#8217;ve been really big on that. So every once in a while, I&#8217;ll find myself just like scrolling back through my Instagram to see these pictures of me like holding these cases of beer, like I literally have. I still have a video of me on Instagram chugging a bottle of fireball, and I&#8217;m not. I won&#8217;t take it down, we&#8217;ll have to pull it up, but I think I do appreciate how far I&#8217;ve come. I mean, it&#8217;s the reason I was able to meet Shelby and my now my now fiance and I. We would have never been able to work, I would have never been fit for a relationship if it wasn&#8217;t for me being where I&#8217;m at now. So I am very appreciative of that. It&#8217;s also allowed me to build my relationship back with my family, which it&#8217;s not that I didn&#8217;t have one, but I didn&#8217;t prioritize seeing them where I like I should. I called my dad in the middle of the day today just just to catch up with him and see how he&#8217;s doing, which I never would have done. So I have I have a lot of my priority. I believe I have a lot of my priorities pretty straight and it&#8217;s allowed me to build back those relationships with family and with friends, make new friends. I was best. One of the things I was worried about with not drinking was am I going to be fun anymore? And it turns out I&#8217;m still a huge weirdo and I still I can still excel in some social situations where I didn&#8217;t know if I was going to be able to. So, yeah, I guess from a I can look back and recognize how far I&#8217;ve come, I mean whether it&#8217;s golf game or just what I&#8217;ve been able to accomplish just from a. From a personal standpoint, I do feel great about that. But, like I said, things come and go in seasons and the one thing that I know is a constant is my my no drinking. So the book, the one thing have you read that? So the one thing such that by doing it, will make everything else easier or unnecessary for me. My one thing not drinking, different for everyone, but that is something that I will hold true to for forever. And I&#8217;ve had people ask me hey, do you think you&#8217;d ever like have a glass of wine or something like that? I&#8217;m like I don&#8217;t know if I want to find out what that looks like, but all I know is like I&#8217;m enjoying myself more than I ever have. I would hate I used to used to hate being by myself because I was kind of alone with my thoughts, and now I really do treasure that time where, even though I am extroverted and in these moments people probably be like, oh my gosh, that guy&#8217;s got to be the life of the party, he&#8217;s got to have so much fun. I love the time to myself, like wind down at the end of the night, just put my phone on, do not disturb, talk to no one, and I&#8217;m very comfortable now with with myself. 0:43:13 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroIs that something that was, there was a challenge for you? 0:43:16 &#8211; Bobby DrummondYeah, for sure. I just I always just sought out like the next thing, rather than just being present, be where my feet are. And I think that was a big part of the problem too, was there were some insecurities there. That why I drank a lot and did a lot of things that I did was because I just wasn&#8217;t comfortable with who I was. 0:43:37 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroWhat, if any, goals do you have, kind of even just moving through, let&#8217;s say, the wintertime, the all season or just kind of in general, with with the whole trajectory that you had? You know, you said you&#8217;re you&#8217;re barely scratching the surface which I just read, a book by Dr Benjamin Hardy. Okay, actually, having read this book, yet I read the other book that he was talking about on the podcast. He was on Ed, my lead show, he was on our buddy Sean Stevenson show recently, and the book is called the gap in the game. Okay, have you, have you heard of this? I feel like I have heard of it. So it&#8217;s just fascinating to me because it reframe the way that I ever really thought about, you know, setting goals, looking goals, how we kind of grade ourselves on our goals, and it talks about the most of us look at the gap from between where we are to the ideal person that we want to be. So, like at the beginning of the of the forge, we tell people like you know, where do you want to be at the end of your 40-Days? Right, what does that look like? Who&#8217;s the person that you want to become, the whole identity thing? Well, the problem with being in the gap is that you&#8217;re always looking from the standpoint of where you are. And so, even on the 40th day and I want to ask you about, you know, your 70 or your 99th day and your 40th day, when you get there and I do this myself typically we will say, okay, cool, I&#8217;m here, but I want to be there and instead of like celebrating, like the game is what it is, you know, looking back and saying, holy shit, look where I was, look where I was three and a half years ago. But I want to be there and like not not taking that time to just be like shit, man, I did some cool ass stuff, yeah that&#8217;s a tough thing because there&#8217;s there&#8217;s student from West people can go with that. 0:45:22 &#8211; Bobby Drummondthey either are, they&#8217;re never satisfied right, or it&#8217;s the add. My lead back to add the thermostat theory of okay, I got here, I got the, I got the thermostat set up to 80 degrees, I got this thing cooking right now, but like 72 is where I&#8217;m comfortable, right. So I feel like I&#8217;ve gone the other direction where I like if there&#8217;s a challenge in place it&#8217;s like one, I guess, when you&#8217;re typing then I&#8217;m good. But once something ends and once I have something set up to start, I feel like I am one who tends to fall back into some of the bad habits. So for me, I wish I had that problem, except Shelby might not want me to have that as much because she&#8217;s like hey, like you don&#8217;t need to be working out like eight hours a day but and it&#8217;s obviously not that much, but it can feel like that whenever I&#8217;m here, gone for two like two hour workouts a day. But no, I think you had. I mean, that&#8217;s a. That&#8217;s not something that I really thought about. Where my next journey is going to be, I think for me biggest thing is developing the better habits, getting back into the gym here consistently, like your your email set today like 80 to 90%, like if you&#8217;re at 80 to 90% of your diet on a weekly basis and you&#8217;re doing the lifting, you&#8217;re moving your body, you&#8217;re doing the stretching and taking care of yourself, I think that I mean I&#8217;ll get where I want to go If I build that consistency where my problem before was I work out hard for two months and then, or three months even, and the next thing I know it was like, okay, I gave myself like a three week break and I lost so much of what I worked so hard to get back to. So biggest goal for me is just developing that consistency and with a goal of like where I want to go being I want to be stronger, how obviously well it doesn&#8217;t hurt to look at me or and be like sup, you look good today. Especially looks great after a cold shower too. And then and then I mean golf game like a shoot man. I had two rounds under par this year, two rounds, one over two rounds at even par, and my goal next year is to shoot 10 plus rounds under par, and I know that I can do that from a mental standpoint. There&#8217;s a lot that goes into that, not only on the course but off the course, but from there it&#8217;s. It&#8217;s what am I doing to make sure that I can play a full 18 holes and my body can be there through all of it in my mental game, can be there through it all too? Plus, I also get a wedding to look awesome, for yeah, that&#8217;s right. Not that my shirt will be coming off at the wedding as far as we know, but yeah, yeah, don&#8217;t drink that, don&#8217;t drink that wine. No, I think it&#8217;ll be good on that, and I don&#8217;t need any grape juice to make it feel like I&#8217;m cooler. 0:48:03 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroYou like that, but yeah so what would you say was the effect on your? You know you talked about how, how shooting under par is going to be a ticket to your goal of 10 rounds, or whatever that is, for next year. That that&#8217;s a big mental mental game, part right. So how do you feel like your journey has really impacted mentally the way that you approached the game golf? I was there one day when you were about to shoot your lowest round ever and it&#8217;s all a little bit of a mental breakdown? 0:48:33 &#8211; Bobby DrummondI&#8217;m glad to wonder. With three years? 0:48:36 &#8211; Jeff Pelizzaroago, 203 to go, and I went a couple of bad decisions and even get went par bogey, double bogey, yeah. So shoot one out. I think so. Yeah, I think so. But nice, let&#8217;s wipe that one out of it. But that&#8217;s not maybe stronger. Honestly, what you know, what have you noticed when you know you&#8217;re obviously thinking clear, you&#8217;re not drinking, you&#8217;re eating better, but even just the tasks that you&#8217;ve complete, the things you&#8217;ve done, how has that impacted the way you&#8217;ve approached the game of golf, the way that you approach mentally out there, right, if it does it does. 0:49:06 &#8211; Bobby DrummondI mean, if you feel better, that always helps. I remember going out and playing, playing golf, whenever I was hungover or like not completely hydrated, didn&#8217;t have a routine before. So I think routine to me is everything, and I know one of the one of the rapid fire questions kind of goes into this, but I&#8217;ll speak to it a little bit now. But like, having a like like your free throw right, like a basketball player is going to have the same free throw, like, I guess, approach every single time they go do it If they. I remember Rip Hamilton. They want to. It was one of my favorite players and he would dribble twice in front of them, once to the side and then went up and shot us free. There&#8217;s players that throw it Like I think Yannis goes behind his back and does something weird twice, I can&#8217;t remember, but everyone has their thing now in basketball outside of a free throw. You don&#8217;t have time to do that in golf. Like if you I saw some sort of statistic on this that if you break down golf in like the moment that you&#8217;re actually hitting a ball, it comes out to like 80 seconds. Yeah, like there&#8217;s 80 seconds of moments that happen in an 18 whole round of golf. That is going to impact your entire round. So it&#8217;s all about the approach into it and the thoughts afterwards. So I think just from a from a sobriety standpoint like that makes I&#8217;m very clear, like just going into the day. Obviously I was listening to a, or actually was watching this YouTube video earlier with Shane Lowry and he&#8217;s talking about. I mean, shane Lowry looks like a guy that is just drinking pints. Yes, like left and right, like all day. He talks about how whenever he&#8217;s in a tournament he doesn&#8217;t have a single beer, has a single drink. He&#8217;s laser focused in on on that week and I think the clarity is one piece of it. But then feeling good, doing the stretches, knowing that you&#8217;re you&#8217;re getting your body warmed up in the right way, and then from there, like you still don&#8217;t know what&#8217;s going to happen in a round of golf, you can still mess up. I mean, shoot for for the 73 that I shot yesterday. Over the weekend I shot an 85, right, like it&#8217;s, there&#8217;s there&#8217;s a give and take to the game, so you can only do so much and then from there you just got to let the golf gods you know it from there. 0:51:06 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroHas it played into how you react to those things? You said you know you can run a little hot. Yeah, that was that. 0:51:11 &#8211; Bobby Drummondget pissed Still kind of can still get pissed. But that&#8217;s a big part of it too is recognizing that then the only thing that matters is the next shot. It&#8217;s not the next hole, and a big part of what I&#8217;ve done is given myself. I&#8217;ll say it myself Like first round that I shot under par this year. I kept on giving myself permission to go low. Part of that is like the visualization of like and I can talk about that a little bit too but just like almost manifesting that that was going to happen and telling myself that I am a great golfer and I have the capability. I&#8217;m going to shoot under par this year. And I was doing that and I told my buddies you can ask a lot of my buddies I told them I&#8217;m going to shoot under par this year. Up until then, my best friend ever was too over par. Yeah, I&#8217;d never even shot even or one over at that point. And I just kept on giving myself permission to go low, permission to make birdies, permission to hit great shots and my only focus during the round of golf was is that specific shot Not? Oh gosh, I got the next one, you get birdie, get next par five it&#8217;s. I need to recover here. I need to get up and down from the sand or I just need to hit this sand shot somewhere on the grade to get me a chance and almost, like, almost playing the game of uh, like, where&#8217;s my miss? Like, no, I can&#8217;t short, I can&#8217;t short side myself over there, or else I&#8217;m leaving myself with almost an impossible shape If I&#8217;m going to miss. I got to miss right where I can play and I spun up there. Um, so there&#8217;s so much that goes into it and I&#8217;m not, like, the best golfer in the world, but, um, I I feel like I&#8217;m trending that direction. Where I have, I I&#8217;m very capable of playing some excellent rounds of golf, which will be, which can be a lot of fun. 0:52:51 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroWell, what I think is really cool about you know, being able to bring you on in some of the future episodes we do is, you know, like you&#8217;re a guy that has a job, you&#8217;re a guy that is doing what most of the people listening to this podcast you&#8217;re trying to go from an eight down to a one right, or from a 15 to a nine or whatever. Whatever your level of golf you&#8217;re at, you&#8217;ve been able to do that and it&#8217;s it&#8217;s been through a lot of hard work, it&#8217;s been through a lot of dedication. Um, what would you say has been like the the biggest gratifying piece, golf wise, from this whole journey. Obviously, getting down to a one is cool, but yeah, you know, is there anything else other than any other piece that you would say is? 0:53:31 &#8211; Bobby Drummondit&#8217;s kind of like the quite a little crown like from, just like a like a result, same point. Like what was the moment? Yeah, and my first friend under par was the coolest thing ever. Man, I uh I was playing out of sand valley at uh mammoth dunes and the day before um me and the injured played, uh, aaron Hills. Oh yeah, and I shot a 92. Uh, we played from the tips there, which is stupid. 0:53:53 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroHe&#8217;s 7,800 yards. 0:53:55 &#8211; Bobby DrummondLike Brooks Kepke, like the fact that he shot one like 18, 17 under at the US open there back in 17 is stupid that, um, but I saw I shoot a 92 the day before and going out to play the next morning morning on mammoth dunes and had a caddy that day. Um and uh, it was actually a caddy that we had had before because we we made two trips to sand valley this year. We made one in April and then one in July, so we can go play the Lido whenever that opened. And um, playing out of mammoth dunes I had uh shoot, I&#8217;m sure I know that I was playing great Like all throughout the entire day. I got to 300 with three holes to go and I kept on telling myself give myself permission to go low. Um, one of the things that Trent and chat up to Trent and Jensen, um, he&#8217;s actually not even on Instagram. 0:54:43 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroSo if he, if he gets to see this. 0:54:45 &#8211; Bobby DrummondI&#8217;ll have the same to him. But he kept on saying throughout the round he&#8217;s like PMA, positive mental attitude. He&#8217;s like you get next shot, baby, be a goldfish. And um, I just took that to heart and just was so laser focused on what I was doing 300, three holes to go, um, I got to 300 by eagling uh, 15, uh out there at me with dunes, and then I went bogey, bogey and I&#8217;m in. I hit my, uh, my drive on 18 into the, the fairway bunker on the right there with super high left. I have to hit a pitching wedge out of it and I still have like two, 30 in the wind. I hit a three wood over the green, um, which there was a bunker right behind it. So I have to get up and down now to shoot under par. For my first round ever, I hit a shot to five feet and I have like a probably like a four inch slider left to right and bust in there for one under par and that was to me beating the course, was I mean, and that course beat me up that day, like there&#8217;s no doubt? But, um, I outplayed the course that day and I think under shooting under par to me was has always been such a big deal because it means that I beat the course, that I set out to go play Um, and that was probably the most satisfying moment. I mean I&#8217;ve had a few other great moments throughout the year, uh, throughout the year of playing, but that was the biggest. I mean it was I broke the seal right, it was um or it&#8217;s finally happened. Now it can happen again. Um, and then since then, um, two rounds, even par, another round, one under par, and uh, I mean shoot like a 73 yesterday, meadowbrook. I&#8217;ll take that all day, all day. So, uh, from there now, my next part of the journey is now I need to shoot a couple under par cause. Uh. The next step is 60s, right, get around in the 60s. So um, 69 or better is the next. Uh is the next target for like man with dunes was the. 0:56:38 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroThe four minute miles broke that yes, so I allowed you to you know 10 and start breaking it down. 0:56:42 &#8211; Bobby DrummondAnd now my thought is like I need to go out and beat as many courses as I can. Yeah, so I love that All right man. 0:56:48 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroWe&#8217;re going to finish up with our traditional questions. Sweet On the 18STRONG podcast Looks like you&#8217;re coming in hot and prepared. 0:56:53 &#8211; Bobby DrummondI have. I have a couple of them that I wanted to make sure I had written down, so I didn&#8217;t forget. 0:56:57 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroAll right. So first and foremost, Candy Shack or happy Gilmore, yeah. 0:57:01 &#8211; Bobby DrummondSo uh, it&#8217;s a toss up, but I think I got to go happy Go why it&#8217;s a classic. I just watched her recently too, so I feel like I&#8217;m a little recency bias. 0:57:09 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroI haven&#8217;t seen it in a little while. I think it&#8217;s about time for me to introduce my son, sam, to to. 0:57:13 &#8211; Bobby DrummondCandy Shack, heck, yeah, well, he&#8217;ll love the cool scene. Yes, he will. That&#8217;s a good one. 0:57:18 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroOh, bob gone, Get something from the kitchen. Yeah, there you go. Probably a good call, all right, walk-up song. What&#8217;s your walk-up song to the first? He&#8217;s so I&#8217;m a huge Dave Matthews fan, that&#8217;s right. Yes, tell him how big of a Dave Matthews fan. 0:57:31 &#8211; Bobby DrummondHi, so it well. What&#8217;s funny is there&#8217;s people who are much bigger fans than me, just based on shows they&#8217;ve seen. But I&#8217;ve seen 81 Dave Matthews shows now, so travel all over to go see him and they&#8217;re one of my favorites. And you know, it was hard for me to pick a walk-up song because I love so much different kind of music and a lot of people think that that&#8217;s the Only band I listen to. But I would have you go warehouse by Dave Matthews. 0:57:55 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroAll right, yeah, is there a book that you&#8217;ve read that has meant a lot to you, or something that you&#8217;ve given to people as gifts, or something that you&#8217;d love to? 0:58:02 &#8211; Bobby Drummondrecommend. Yep. So I, every person who joins my sales team, actually gets the book a relentless solution focus, so written by dr Jason Selk. He&#8217;s actually well yeah, the same Lewis, do you know? 0:58:13 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroI&#8217;m that. I know that want to get him on the show, yeah so well I can make an intro. 0:58:19 &#8211; Bobby DrummondHim and Ellen Reed yeah, I have that Ellen on the show. Okay, sweet I. So they. They tell a lot of the same story, right, but they have different I mean different versions of it. And I&#8217;ve read that book now all the way through, probably four or five times, and Every person on my team gets that book and the whole premise of that book is it&#8217;s kind of similar to. It&#8217;s similar to the one thing where you find stuff like okay, what&#8217;s the one thing that I can do? So set by doing it will make everything else easier unnecessary but relentless solution focus is a lot more looking at like what Jason calls the mental chalkboard. So you have the problem side and the solution side, and a lot of times people will try to do one thing to make something better and it doesn&#8217;t work and they never go back to the problem side, knowing that they&#8217;re still an issue. So it&#8217;s all about being relentless in your pursuit, to continue to ask yourself what&#8217;s one thing that I can do to make this better, no matter what the situation is personal, professional, mental, emotional, physical, no matter what it might be and the whole premise of the book is that you&#8217;re a happier person and I was supposed to be ratifier, so maybe I shouldn&#8217;t do that. I&#8217;m into this detail, yeah, but the whole premise of the book is that there&#8217;s the nasty six negative emotions, which are fear, anger, stress, anxiety and depression. And oh wait, that&#8217;s five. Fear, stress, anxiety kills, depression and something else. Well, we&#8217;ll figure it out later. But those different types of feelings cause your brain to release cortisol, which is that fear-inducing chemical that causes you to profound poorly, behave irrationally where people that are solution focus, and that will actually release dopamine, serotonin and norepinephrine. So to me that&#8217;s okay. Like, instead of just saying I don&#8217;t notice something, or Just giving up or complaining about something, instead, if you&#8217;re trying to move yourself forward and find solutions to a given problem, you&#8217;re going to be a happier person as as you look for those solutions that happen. So big thing for me, especially on a on a team that sells insurance. We, if I have happier people working for me, I believe that happier people are going to sell more insurance, which is always good. But I also just that book. It completely changed my life and it&#8217;s a big part of why I Really do feel like I was able to shoot under par this year&#8217;s because a lot of the visualization and the mental workouts that Jason silk has throughout there. So I would absolutely 100% recommend anyone read that book. What was an immediate, relentless solution focus? Yeah, I&#8217;m saying, louis guy. Yeah, all right. 1:01:00 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroWho would be your dream for some. Yes, you got to pick anybody, any time, any place. You know who are the people you&#8217;re taking. So these are all goats. 1:01:09 &#8211; Bobby DrummondOkay, the way just so you know, tiger, yeah, obviously, yeah, they go play with tiger, even though he&#8217;s got one leg. The goat Michael Jordan because again we&#8217;re that guy has got to be just an absolute trip. And then my, my personal, I mean, I don&#8217;t even know if they Matthews golfs, but I wanted to that golf part with me, right? So, and he&#8217;s that, he&#8217;s the go to music. Same for me. 1:01:30 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroCan you imagine Michael Jordan and Tiger Woods and their banter and nothing on the golf course? 1:01:35 &#8211; Bobby DrummondHe&#8217;s that&#8217;d be amazing. That would be an I&#8217;d love to be a part of that. That was a hard one to come up with, because there&#8217;s I feel like there&#8217;s so many people that I would love to play with, but I feel like that would be my dream for some, for sure. 1:01:46 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroAll right, bucket list course, if we could seal up to the 18STRONG jet we&#8217;re taking you anywhere. I feel like there&#8217;s a lot of people that say Augusta and St Andrews, god damn it. And so I&#8217;m gonna. I&#8217;m gonna make this rule now, yeah, okay. Here on out it&#8217;s like it will a fortune RST LNE. You can&#8217;t take you. We already give you the okay, okay. So I&#8217;m throwing you a little curveball. Yeah, but you know, but if you have a real reason why you know, yeah. 1:02:10 &#8211; Bobby DrummondWell, you know, what&#8217;s funny is I literally put those are the only two down, plus I got some the old course. So I&#8217;m like, I&#8217;m, I&#8217;m Scottish, so and I, my family, we trace our family heritage back there. So I, that&#8217;s definitely a huge one. But if I had to pick, so because I, I don&#8217;t know, it feels like I mean, you can&#8217;t get everywhere, obviously like you want to go somewhere where no one else, yeah, can play, which is why Augusta is obviously such a huge draw. But if we were to go somewhere right now, I&#8217;d say, and it&#8217;s gonna be somewhere, I haven&#8217;t played right. Yes, I&#8217;m supposed to play there this next year, but I&#8217;d say let&#8217;s go to be in the dens, yeah. 1:02:49 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroI haven&#8217;t been there yet, but I mean, everything says that&#8217;s, that&#8217;s where you gotta go, yeah or like a, maybe like a Cyprus, I don&#8217;t know. 1:02:56 &#8211; Bobby Drummondsee, now is see if I would have had a little bit more time. That&#8217;s right, I&#8217;ll have to let you know later where? 1:03:00 &#8211; Jeff Pelizzaroso if all the places you played, where would you say I want to go there again today? 1:03:05 &#8211; Bobby DrummondSan Valley. Yeah, san Valley was super special not, and it was special before I shot one under par that course there, but it&#8217;s such a cool. Like you, your stay, you stay on resort there. I&#8217;m sure Bandon&#8217;s pretty similar to this as a lot of resort golf courses to you, but the people there were incredible the caddies, the food, the experience. You walk every single round of golf and you&#8217;re playing golf the way who&#8217;s meant to be played, which is walk 18 holes right. 1:03:33 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroAll right, I think you alluded to this earlier. Yep, best piece of golf advice that you&#8217;ve ever been given. 1:03:38 &#8211; Bobby DrummondYep so I did create your own like kind of free throw routine. If you&#8217;re anyone who&#8217;s ever played with me, if they might start paying attention to it now. But I do the same thing before every single shot. Same different club twirls, same way I line up my shot. My footwork is the exact same thing. I have the same kind of approach every single thing that I do. My kind of like the hitch in my giddy-up is what I do to get comfortable over a wall and I have a lot of it too. Between creating a free throw routine a lot of it is like then just the trigger and go. So Once you have like a good routine that&#8217;s consistent, don&#8217;t stray from that. Even if you have a bug flying your ball, something messes you up, don&#8217;t feel like you have to rush back into that shot. Create the whole routine over all the way through. But you might have different routines for Driver, to irons, to bunker, to putter, but be consistent in whatever that is. You&#8217;ll find yourself be more comfortable over your golf ball. 1:04:33 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroIt&#8217;s great you guys are in. Is there one social media? Is there an account on social media? Is there an account on social media that you think the 18STRONG career should follow somebody? It doesn&#8217;t have to be golf, I&#8217;m not give insurance, could just be somebody cool mindset or anything, all right. 1:04:50 &#8211; Bobby DrummondSo I had two for this, but I&#8217;ll start with one because he&#8217;s saying Lewis guy, the part train, oh yeah, yeah, the Evans, an awesome, follow the end. I actually want a putter from them. This past year I don&#8217;t know if I told you that, no, I want a meridian putter from them on there. And then we went back and forth and we&#8217;re talking a little bit after I told my address was a st Louis one and then I actually Play golf with one of his like high school buddies not too long ago with Corey, okay. And so the part train is great. I&#8217;ve listened to a lot of their podcasts, a lot around the mental game and I think so many of my buddies that I go play with. And Actually, back to Jason Selkin, a lot with solution focus. He talks so much about the way you talk to yourself like you&#8217;ll start to believe that. So if you tell yourself that you suck on the course, if you tell yourself You&#8217;re terrible, that you&#8217;re gonna hook this drive, that you&#8217;re gonna slice it, whatever it might be, like yours manifesting it, yeah, you, if you say it enough, you&#8217;ll end up believing yourself. So I think the part train talks a lot about that. Yeah, awesome, you had another one. No, laying up. Those guys are just awesome. They&#8217;re they&#8217;re YouTube chain. I love their YouTube channel. They create a lot of really good content, but those are both great. Great follows, awesome. 1:06:07 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroWell, brother, I can&#8217;t thank you enough for coming on. One last question would be so anybody that is is out there Looking to make changes and this is about the forging, not about the forge Somebody that&#8217;s maybe on the fence of doing something like that Sure, what would you say to them If they&#8217;re kind of toiling, you know, I think indecision is one of the biggest things that we have that regarding making commitment, not making or making a change, and I&#8217;m not making change what would you say to that person? It&#8217;s kind of on the fence or they&#8217;re thinking about doing something like the forge. 1:06:35 &#8211; Bobby DrummondYeah, I just a full band-aid off and do it. A lot of times people, I&#8217;ve talked to a guy here recently that is like me, I&#8217;m just prepared myself to go do 75 hard and I&#8217;m like, just do it, what are you waiting for? But I get it because I hired a nutrition coach and sometimes you got to get yourself right mentally. But Not only you have to make the decision. If you don&#8217;t want to do it, then you&#8217;re never gonna do it. So you have to really know that you want it and then from there you have to employ some like your support system on that. So whether that&#8217;s a spouse, a significant other, a friend that you&#8217;re doing that with every single day, if you don&#8217;t have someone that&#8217;s kind of there by your side, through it it&#8217;s gonna be. It&#8217;s gonna be tough and that&#8217;s where, like, the forge serves that purpose. And there&#8217;s a community of people right here in St Louis that we&#8217;re getting together on Sundays and sharing posts about it on on the forge community page on Facebook. So you just got to find your community and that&#8217;s where I know I mentioned it before and it it seems kind of silly because I know a lot of people, but I mean what the 18STRONG community has done for me is helped me so much this year, where I&#8217;ve gotten to meet so many cool people yourself included, obviously and it just kind of gives you a sense of belonging. And if you don&#8217;t have something like that right now, just dude, they need to come up here and and meet you first and foremost, and then do a mandatory golf Friday or start the forge and talk with someone about it. Awesome, all right man. 1:08:06 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroThank you enough for sharing your story and everything, and we&#8217;ll be seeing each other on the links for sure. Awesome Cool. Thanks for listening to the 18STRONG podcast. Don&#8217;t forget to go follow us over on Instagram at 18STRONG and if you found this episode helpful and want to help us spread the 18STRONG mission, we&#8217;d really appreciate if you shared with your friends. Train hard, practice smart and play better golf.

Play354: Brian Bradley: The Connection Between Posture, Pain Relief and Performance Guest: Brian Bradley &#8211; The Egoscue MethodHost: Jeff PelizzaroEpisode Number: 354Podcast: The 18STRONG PodcastPartners: Linksoul, 1stPhorm Summary Join us as we talk about the connection between posture, pain relief, and performance with Brian Bradley from the Egoscue Method. Brian starts out unraveling the captivating world of pickleball and its differences from golf as it relates to physical capabilities, social aspects, and injuries. Brian, known for his unique insights into body movement, shares the importance of preparation on the court and the vital role of certification and divisions in this increasingly popular sport. He paints a vivid picture of pickleball, a sport marked by its sociability and growth potential. Journey with us as Brian’s expertise extends beyond pickleball and golf into the realm of posture and walking analysis. His experiences in aiding clients achieve improved gait and balance are invaluable. Brian teaches us the art of walking with balance, demonstrating the heel strike technique as a remedy for glute amnesia. We explore activities like cold plunges and infrared treatments, discussing their potential to enhance life quality by reducing pain without getting hung up on individual significance. In our final segments, we delve into deeper territories as we explore the concept of faith in the healing process. Brian encourages us to redefine our understanding of pain &#8211; not as harm, but as a signal guiding us towards solutions. We underscore the importance of men&#8217;s health and self-care, emphasizing the need to respect oneself and halt the cycle of neglecting personal health. Discover how to navigate your way to a healthier, pain-free life in this enlightening discussion. Whether you&#8217;re a pickleball enthusiast or just someone seeking a healthier lifestyle, this episode is a treasure trove of insights. Main Topics (00:04) Exploring Pain, Pickleball, and Movement Pickleball is a social sport with potential for 70 million participants, requiring mindful body movement and preparation, and a need for certification. (08:31) Posture and Walking Analysis Brian Bradley explains the importance of walking with balance, heel strike technique, and how pickleball is the most social sport. (14:51) Body, Mind, and Spirit Jeff shares his experience with cold plunges and infrared treatments to help people enjoy life and play with less pain, emphasizing the importance of focusing on benefits. (29:30) Pain and Healing Relationship Pain is a signal, not a police light, and we discuss breaking the cycle of harm, Robert Redford&#8217;s The Horse Whisperer, cold plunges and infrared treatments, and our new partnership with First Form. (35:09) Faith, Finding the Right Path Faith, pain, commitment, and positivity are key to a successful healing journey. (48:40) Strategies for Men&#8217;s Health and Self-Care We discuss respect, strategies for physical and longevity, and effective communication and care. (58:36) Golf Improvement Tips and Recommendations Brian shares insights on faith, respect, and strategies for developing a healthier relationship with oneself. Follow Brian Instagram: @thebrianbradley Egoscue Website: Egoscue.com Episode Partners: LINKSOUL:&nbsp;For your 20% discount on LINKSOUL gear, go to&nbsp;18strong.com/linksoul&nbsp;or click the logo above. 1st Phorm: Try any of the 1st Phorm products with FREE SHIPPING, go to 1stphorm.com/18strong.com (By using this link, you will be entered into our Monthly 1st Phorm Giveaway!) More Cool Stuff to Check Out: To continue the conversation and ask any questions you may have, head over to the&nbsp;18STRONG Movement group on Facebook. 18STRONG Pro Shop (Get your 18STRONG gear!) 18STRONG Resources (All of the cool stuff we recommend: products, books, golf stuff, etc &#8211; and discount codes for the 18STRONG Crew) Want the full episode transcript? (click the &#8220;+&#8221; ????????) 0:00:04 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroThe 18STRONG Podcast, episode Number 354 with Brian Bradley from Egoscue. Hey South guys, welcome back to the 18STRONG Podcast, where we&#8217;re here to help you build a stronger game, because we believe everybody deserves to play better, longer. This episode we have with our good friend, Brian Bradley. I think this is Brian&#8217;s third time coming on the 18STRONG Podcast. Brian is the Vice President and Head of Brand Development and Special Programs over at Egoscue. He&#8217;s also on a mission to help millions of people learn how to live healthier lives and basically achieve complete fitness and pain free way of living. Brian speaks and consults with tons of corporations all over the world doing training for corporations and other organizations like Tony Robbins, the Titles Performance Institute, as well as the NFL and YPO. In this episode we talk about all kinds of different things. In fact, what I love about having Brian on the show is we always go in many different directions that I don&#8217;t anticipate going in. We talk about living in pain and really how we can utilize the idea of pain and change our perspective on pain. Rather than it being something bad and something that we have to deal with, it can actually be an alert of something that needs to be changed or something that we can do to make ourselves better, and we even talk about some other random things, including breast implants. So stay tuned for that. But Brian is always an incredible guest on the show and I know you&#8217;re going to enjoy this one. Our partners over at Linksoul have been providing us with the best apparel for both on the course and off the course, from polos to t-shirts like the one I have on right now. Everything that they have is meant to be worn from the golf course to wherever you&#8217;re going next, whether that be casual, whether that be to the beach, there&#8217;s all different options over there. So go to 18strongcom slash Linksoul. You&#8217;ll get 20% off of anything in your cart over on Linksoul&#8217;s website. Go again 18strongcom slash Linksoul for our favorite brand of apparel for anything on the golf course and off. Now let&#8217;s get to this week&#8217;s interview, Brian Bradley. Welcome back to the 18strong podcast. It&#8217;s so good to be here. 0:02:28 &#8211; Brian BradleyIt&#8217;s been such a long time. 0:02:30 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroI know, I know we got to catch up on all your pickleball and everything that you&#8217;re doing these days. You&#8217;re traveling all over. You&#8217;re at the Tony Robbins events. Tell me a little bit about the pickleball these days, cause it used to be that you&#8217;re playing a ton of table tennis, but now I see pickleball everywhere. 0:02:49 &#8211; Brian BradleyYeah, listen, the difference between the two sports is one&#8217;s not as nerdy as the other and pickleball is the most social sport I&#8217;ve ever seen in my life. Like you know, when you go golfing with your friends or whoever, let&#8217;s say, you get thrown into a foursome. You&#8217;re all pretty good friends by the time you&#8217;re done, depending on how much money you take from them. Pickleball I played for three hours yesterday total and played with 14 different people eight, six or eight of them, I didn&#8217;t even know. Now we&#8217;re all pretty connected. It&#8217;s just amazing. So it&#8217;s just much more social. There&#8217;s going to be 70 million people doing it by 2030. And you know that&#8217;s why. You know I saw this a while ago and I&#8217;m like, okay, so that&#8217;s why I started paying free pickleball for that kind of stuff, not to teach how to. It&#8217;s like teaching golf. Right, I know just enough to be dangerous to be teaching golf, but you shouldn&#8217;t be teaching golf, Brian. Lead that to the pro. So I&#8217;ll leave it to the teachers. What I am going to show you is how your body&#8217;s moving on the court. It is not serving you. So when you go for a backhand just hitting it back across, which they call a dink, I don&#8217;t know where it came from. Nice slow ping pong shot across, but you didn&#8217;t bend your legs or your knees or your ankles. 100% of that went into your lumbar spine. Your low back takes a beating and you wonder why? I got hurt by pickleball. That&#8217;s more embarrassing than saying CrossFit hurt me. Come on. 0:04:12 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroYeah, I would imagine that you know and I&#8217;ve even heard this from a few docs that I know that and it used to be CrossFit. It&#8217;s funny that you said that because a bunch of orthopedic surgeons used to say CrossFit was the best thing to ever happen to their, to their profession. And I have now heard them switch that over to pickleball or say that you know that&#8217;s kind of the up and coming version of it, because they see so many people and to your point, most just aren&#8217;t prepared to be out there moving and cutting and dinking and doing all these different kinds of activities because they haven&#8217;t prepared their body, they aren&#8217;t doing the things on a regular basis or they just don&#8217;t know what they need to be able to do out there and they just jump right in. 0:04:51 &#8211; Brian BradleyListen, dave Phillips from TPI are out at a couple of car events, because we&#8217;re both car guys like to go to the track, stuff like that. When we start talking pickleball he&#8217;s like dude, I see you&#8217;re killing it, you&#8217;re doing this, blah, blah, blah. But the highest I&#8217;ll ever get is probably a four or five. Like I&#8217;m not going to go for a five. Oh, and go to the senior crow. Yes, all this stuff I actually enjoy the rest of my life outside of pickleball. But they&#8217;re going to start a whole certification and division. I guarantee you, because of it, just the numbers. 0:05:22 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroIt makes sense. I mean, just like golf, you know, helping people prepare, especially because there&#8217;s such a huge population of non-professional players, right, people that, just like in golf, you can play this up to whatever age you want to play it. But that also means there&#8217;s that much larger of a population that needs to be prepared or needs to be in preventative treatments for those injuries or post rehab related stuff from the injuries. And so it is. It&#8217;s a huge, huge market, and I&#8217;m sure we&#8217;re going to talk about a lot of the crossover of things that we need to prepare our body for, both for pickleball, for golf, and how we can remedy or how we can prevent a lot of, really some of these useless injuries that shouldn&#8217;t even happen. 0:06:07 &#8211; Brian BradleyWell, listen and I&#8217;m not judging what you just said, other than I&#8217;m judging it let&#8217;s take the word useless out of there and go these absolutely useful injuries, because now, if we start viewing them as a gift, they&#8217;re there to teach us something. My body&#8217;s not working the way that it should. The injury is a signal. I just put this stuff up yesterday on a post on my Instagram, talking about guys you&#8217;ve got to start moving. This is you were talking about, start asking better questions. Well, the whole premise was move better, not just move, move better. You and I have been in this mindset for well over a decade more. I mean just with golf. But I would back in the day when I sat there and watched Jack Nicklaus hitting and I&#8217;m calling my dad going I just gave Jack Nicklaus a golf lesson and he was like, yeah, so much for golf. It wasn&#8217;t that I was teaching him golf. Very simply, it was in a basic nutshell are you able to separate? Well, we do the same thing with our NFL teams. I take an offensive lineman, left tackle who&#8217;s the real? You know, he&#8217;s got to be the guy that&#8217;s protecting the backside, the blind side. He gets down in his stance and his butts up like this and his head&#8217;s down. He&#8217;s already a second slower. Take a look at the Niners and just watch Bosa. He&#8217;s lining up and he&#8217;s like this. He is literally like an animal that&#8217;s ready to attack you that way not here, and then having to lift, and all you have to do is give them the disassociation test, which we can show your people here if they haven&#8217;t seen in a while. It&#8217;s the number one, in my opinion, the number one way to assess whether somebody has athletic ability or not. Second would be the hanging test. Are you hinging from the pelvis or are you bending from your back? I don&#8217;t care how you look, how are you moving? And then I&#8217;ll give them the Jeff to go golf specific or whatever you&#8217;re into. Now you know that kind of stuff. So for me it&#8217;s just such a diverse thing. Rotational athletics is what I&#8217;m interested in, but if you think of every sport you know, including walking, they&#8217;re all rotational athletics, right. 0:08:25 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroYeah, everything revolves around just movements of the body. You mentioned just learning to move better. When you say that, what are some of the things that you see people doing on a regular basis? I love watching your Instagram because sometimes you&#8217;ll just like take a snapshot of just, you know, people in the wild and just draw little pictures or little arrows showing what we all tend to do just naturally, positions we hold ourselves in, ways that we walk that aren&#8217;t really natural, aren&#8217;t the way that we should be doing. Can you give us a little insights and maybe people can kind of catch themselves on a few of the things that they might be doing on a regular basis that you would take a picture of and snapshot and point that out? 0:09:09 &#8211; Brian BradleySo for those of you that are driving, waiting until you get home to look at this visual, but if you&#8217;re looking at it now, I&#8217;m going to show you a gate video Somebody walking. I was in Florida and thank God I rented from Turro because I got a Tesla so I could sneak up on him because there was no noise, right, I was like the creeper, 55 year old, sneaking up on this dude. But just take a look at bilateral. For those of you listening and don&#8217;t understand, I just very simply you should be balanced. From left to right, the same arm swing, the same leg swing, the same calf size, the same calf size on the other side. The feet are turned out on one side. They should at least both be turned out. You know, if you&#8217;re going to have your feet and turning out, then have them be equal. So think of balance when you&#8217;re looking at this and then say is this person balanced? Look at the lack of arm swing on one side versus the other. Look at the calf size on one side versus the other. 0:10:06 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroYou can even see him kind of tipping and leaning and walking to one side. 0:10:11 &#8211; Brian BradleyYeah, because he&#8217;s trying to pick up a leg that no longer works, which is why he leans that direction. That&#8217;s the arm that&#8217;s over swinging. The other one&#8217;s not swinging. So, as a therapist, we can go no, that arm doesn&#8217;t swing, that&#8217;s a problem. Versus that arm doesn&#8217;t swing. I wonder if it&#8217;s trying to lock itself down to protect you in some way. So I&#8217;m a glass half full guy and I&#8217;m going the body will never make a mistake, even with that gate. There&#8217;s nothing wrong with it. They&#8217;re just trying to get from point A to point B. They&#8217;re just doing it like this, whereas you and I might be doing it like this. It doesn&#8217;t mean we&#8217;re better, just means we&#8217;re better aligned. So I got the guy and I said hey, excuse me, sir, how are you Now? First of all, you&#8217;re driving a Tesla three, so he&#8217;s probably not threatened, because you never hear about gang members going. They pulled up in a Tesla three and they killed everybody. So you know what I&#8217;m saying. He&#8217;s not really that guy. So I pulled up as probably pretty safe. I said excuse me, can I show you something? You&#8217;re out exercising today. Why are you doing it? I&#8217;m in the field. I work with a lot of pro athletes. I dropped three or four names so he went oh, I remember those guys over golfers and stuff like that. I said look at your walking. And I said do you notice how one arm doesn&#8217;t swing? And he goes. Well, I have a lot of pain, but your, I applaud you for being out here to try to lose weight. Be more functional, get strong. He said, yeah, I retired down here a while ago, but my body&#8217;s not my body didn&#8217;t get the message. So what do you think I had him? Do I have literally 30 seconds to impress the guy as I&#8217;m the creeper or I&#8217;m the hero to him, right? So I&#8217;d rather be the second. What do you think I had him do? 0:11:49 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroI guess you had him stand up, maybe turned his toes in, put his hands locked his hands behind his head and pulled his elbows all the way back. That&#8217;s going to be my guess. 0:11:59 &#8211; Brian BradleyYes, except I didn&#8217;t have him stay still. I said will you do me a favor and walk 20 yards forward, 20 yards back with your hands, like this, drop your traps, elbows back. Completely different, completely different, Jeff. It was so simple. But the guy came back. He&#8217;s like what just happened. I don&#8217;t hurt. And I said were you also? You&#8217;re not any thinner either, but you&#8217;d like to be. So why don&#8217;t you do some of your walk with your hands on your head? And maybe your ass will pay you back, because now you&#8217;re moving your length system. Now you&#8217;re really getting a good heel strike. Listen, there&#8217;s a heel strike. That&#8217;s how you cure glute amnesia by getting the heel to hit correctly. For those of you listening, walk around your house, put your hands on your butt cheek. Every time your heel hits the ground, your glute should fire. That means my foot&#8217;s in front of me, Jeff, when my glute fires to help me transition back to the mid stance and back through terminal. So why don&#8217;t we go to the gym and do butt blasters where we&#8217;re donkey kicking behind us? It makes no sense. That&#8217;s why, when I&#8217;m talking to a guy&#8217;s like Lance Gill, he&#8217;s like you know what? It&#8217;s interesting because I do a lot of these glute amnesia things and their glute amnesia is no better Like buddy. Their glute amnesia is a positive. Their glutes aren&#8217;t firing for a reason. Now dig into that. And for this guy it was changes thoracic spine. How about for this guy before and after? Yeah Right, that&#8217;s no different from what you just saw, except in the green shorts. I got him 14 days before that green fight and look at the difference. And he punched the guy in the MMA fight with the top of his shoulder four times and broke his nose with his shoulder. For those of you, listening. 0:13:54 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroThat was a picture of Conor McGregor that Brian had worked with and you know that&#8217;s something that I had always noticed about Conor and I guess most of us in the field would is the way that he would stand was so internally rotated, rounded shoulders, thoracic spine really flexed over, and it always just looked so strange to me. But you write that picture. So for those of you that are listening, definitely go to YouTube and watch the video so you can see that picture of the difference in his posture there. It&#8217;s amazing. 0:14:27 &#8211; Brian BradleyListen, I don&#8217;t like to disparage him because if he gets pissed off he knows where I am and he can put a beat down on me. But I can say this probably one of the top three smartest athletes I&#8217;ve ever had the chance to work with, fred Warner being probably number one. You saw what he did to Dallas the other day. I mean the guys that he just gets it, he understands, do your functional movement and look what he does. Conor was one of those ones that just says okay, pop, pop, pop. Oh, okay, good, that&#8217;s in this position where he&#8217;s rounded over. We gave him one exercise which moved him back, kind of like hands on head, but it was all loaded up and I said now throw your punch, because I saw that his feet went from 45 degrees out to almost completely straight as he was walking. So I already knew that the base of support was firing better, his so as his deep hip muscle, the circuit breaker, was turned back on because his feet got straighter. So now he went pop, pop, pop. He looked at his coach and said I don&#8217;t know what it looked like, but that felt so much more crisp and sounded louder and faster and they were like whatever you did keep doing it because he they were getting the fighter back versus the entrepreneur, the very successful businessman that doesn&#8217;t win you fights. No, it makes you $200 million a year in the most successful athlete ever. I get it, but it&#8217;s comes at a consequence, and maybe part of his stuff was when he was working with Tony Robbins too, where he was going through the psychological stuff where he threw the thing through the bus at Khabib. I mean, you don&#8217;t talk stuff. People react like that because they&#8217;re just in a different mound. Their mind and their hearts aren&#8217;t synced into one. Is that a word Synced into one? My God, my dad taught English too. I&#8217;m sorry, father. So you know just one of these things where, when you can change the body, mind and spirit together, you have a fighter that showed up for the cowboy fight. When the, when the body is not congruent and the mind and heart are not linked up, then you have the Khabib fight, which is that before picture. He was lost and he knew it and I got him just by sending him the picture from the fight and said Khabib cheated, he had a hole in me. If you want to talk about it, and it&#8217;s not the Khabib cheated, look how Khabib entered the fight. I mean, this is, this is the picture you should be really interested in. Is this? Look at Khabib&#8217;s position versus Connor Wow. 0:16:47 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroLook at that difference that&#8217;s so drastic between the two of them. 0:16:51 &#8211; Brian BradleyAnd it wasn&#8217;t that Connor couldn&#8217;t fight and just couldn&#8217;t breathe. And for those of you who know your diaphragm is your breathing muscle, over 24,000 times a day should be firing my body breathes in and out, front to back. It doesn&#8217;t, paradoxically, breathe like this where I&#8217;m heaving up, like that. 0:17:11 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroCan you take us back to the gentleman that you saw walking on the road and you know you said you had yet 30 seconds with them to a minute? Why choose that specific exercise and can you tell us this cascading effects of how that impacted him so thoroughly, from head to toe? 0:17:29 &#8211; Brian BradleyOkay, you ready? This is. This is top secret, nasa level information. I&#8217;m going to give you this, so just show how smart I am. Here&#8217;s what I said. Well, one arm doesn&#8217;t move and the other one does. I wonder what happens when he puts his hands on his head and puts them both in the same position. That, honestly, was the genius at work. And remember, you have to know your stuff so well you can. I&#8217;m not calling people dumb, but you have to be able to dumb your stuff down, like we can get into biomechanics. My my talk yesterday was going into rehabilitation of the spine Pavel Kolaj, vladimir Yanda, craig Liebenson and Vojta Carl Levitt all these guys from the Czech Republic, and that&#8217;s. That&#8217;s science beyond science. But I have to be able to read something and then dumb it down where my little brain can understand it. And then I say, well, I wonder how I could even make it not smaller, more understandable, more relevant to that person. Cause, Jeff, think about marketing, Jeff, what do you do for a living? So I&#8217;m going to ask that question what do you do for a living? 0:18:42 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroI help golfers get stronger so they can play the game longer and and better. Why? 0:18:48 &#8211; Brian Bradleydo you do that? Hold on. Why do you do that? 0:18:55 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroSo I can help them enjoy the game more, so I can help them enjoy their, their life more, so they can, you know, go through the day with less pain and play the game that they love even better. 0:19:07 &#8211; Brian BradleyI hope everybody heard what he said. He scooted around what and why. Very well, because he clearly understands his clients. He went right to how it affects them. I don&#8217;t care what you do, Jeff, I don&#8217;t even really care. Remember it&#8217;s me. I&#8217;m the golfer. I don&#8217;t even really care why you do it. I care how it&#8217;s going to make me better. I&#8217;m selfish. So if we can all just accept that we&#8217;re all just selfish, speak to how I&#8217;m good at. Speaking to how, cause I don&#8217;t need my significance jumped up by going. Let me tell you what I do and why I do it, and make it about me. I don&#8217;t care about me and you&#8217;re looking at the most selfish human on the planet. I&#8217;ll get into a 34 degree cold plunge in the morning because it serves me. I&#8217;ll do infrared at night for 30, 40 minutes because it serves me, even if it gets in the way of doing something around the house. I&#8217;ll do that later, because if I&#8217;m not happy, then nobody&#8217;s happy. You know it&#8217;s happy husband, happy life. Okay, that doesn&#8217;t rhyme at all, but still we&#8217;ll come up with something you know what. 0:20:20 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroIt&#8217;s funny you mentioned the cold plunge, the infrared. I know that you are really involved in a lot of the restorative care, the recovery, and it&#8217;s a topic that we hear a lot about. We see people cold plunging, we see people doing cold showers. Cold showers is one of the things that we have our people do during our 40 day forge. But I want to dig into the recovery piece from your perspective. Why is it so important and why do you take so much time to educate yourself? You mentioned you do it personally, for yourself, because, selfishly, you want to feel better, you want to move better. But what are some of the biggest components that we need to know about recovery and how the heat, how the cold, how the infrared, how they impact us. 0:21:03 &#8211; Brian BradleyOkay, here we go. I just made the sign of the cross because I hope I know what I&#8217;m talking about. Otherwise I&#8217;m going to send you right to a Huberman lab and let them talk to you about it. Right, let&#8217;s just let we&#8217;ll just clip some of Andrew Huberman in here right now. We should just cut away to Andrew Huberman now talking about cold shock and heat shock proteins. So, knowing enough to be dangerous, I don&#8217;t do any of these for recovery Zero. What am I recovering from? 0:21:34 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroDon&#8217;t know. 0:21:35 &#8211; Brian BradleyHickleball Like. But if you think about it, I am recovering from pickleball because it does beat the heck like me, but I&#8217;m not doing it for recovery. I get up in the morning to serve myself heart, mind, body, whatever. To get in that water, and there&#8217;s no. Tony Robin says it perfectly Once I get in, there&#8217;s no negotiating. Once I see that water, there&#8217;s no negotiating. You have to literally say that to yourself, otherwise you go right into that sympathetic nervous system and go. I could easily talk myself out of getting in the cold today. 34 degrees, 34 degrees and I listen does it do more than 50 degrees? On the research side, 49 degrees doesn&#8217;t really give me more than what 34 degrees does, except I&#8217;ll argue with anybody about this. I will argue with you that it does this. I&#8217;m just going to give you a visual. Hey, forget this picture with me without a shirt on. But that&#8217;s what you get, right? 0:22:37 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroOh my gosh, the lice. 0:22:40 &#8211; Brian BradleyBut listen how calm the water is about 34. Stay in here for three to four minutes. Get off my nipple. Okay, you didn&#8217;t need that part. Okay, sorry about that part, but you know, one of those pieces of ice started to head toward my chest and I had to talk to it to get away. But that&#8217;s four inch pieces of ice that I had to break up because it was that cold. Well, that&#8217;s the psychology, that&#8217;s the known negotiating. We understand the physical side, what the liver is going to do. So during your 40 day forge cold showers, in my opinion, are more difficult sometimes because that water is just beating the H out of you. It&#8217;s just never, it&#8217;s relentless. When you get into freezing, calm water, then you can, and there&#8217;s your sympathetic to parasympathetic shift, there&#8217;s your control of that cortisol shift. Once you can control and I know controls and illusion, but let&#8217;s just use it Once you can embrace cortisol and sympathetic so it no longer has control of you, can you imagine what the toughest 40 yard pot to win the opens going to do to you? Absolutely nothing. You may make or miss the pot, but you&#8217;re not going to miss it because of the Yips. You&#8217;re going to miss it because your cat aligned you incorrectly. Okay, we&#8217;ll blame the catty, but I do it mainly for the hormonal response and my overcoming the quote fear of what the water is going to feel like. 0:24:24 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroThat&#8217;s one of the biggest reasons that we put that in that challenge because and it&#8217;s fun to hear people respond when they initially say, oh my God, I can&#8217;t do that, there&#8217;s no way and then they do it and they get out and they&#8217;re like I felt like a whole new person when I stepped out of that first shower. And there&#8217;s one gentleman in particular that I can think of. He did the forge two years ago and has done a cold shower every single day since. Because of that feeling right there, Because of I didn&#8217;t want to do it. I told myself I was going to do it. I did it. It sucked, but I got through it and then was obviously elated with the change of state, the change of physiology, but it was the building of the confidence level that also changed. 0:25:14 &#8211; Brian BradleyYou don&#8217;t know what you really don&#8217;t know, right, until somebody shows you that kind of stuff, what you&#8217;ve done. Like Wim Hof, we wouldn&#8217;t have started really looking at the fascia if it weren&#8217;t for Thomas Myers doing some guesswork, then some scientific work, and then you know. Whether he&#8217;s right or wrong about certain things, I don&#8217;t really care. It&#8217;s that he&#8217;s got us to look at. Hey, do you realize that I could release your eyebrow up here with pressure points and your plantar fascia goes away, like, what? Like, no, that&#8217;s. We were in university. Nothing like that was taught, but yet it&#8217;s effective enough for us to release. Look into the research, and it&#8217;s true. So when you look at cold, the Agassiou method which is what I do and have been doing it for 33 years whatever has completely changed my view? And Pete Agassiou himself is a great question. Asking therapist, when you report yourself in tears, I have this and blah, blah, blah, blah, he just goes. Okay, okay, he&#8217;ll let you talk. He&#8217;ll let you talk Because remember, we&#8217;ve said this before the person in charge of the conversation is the one listening. He&#8217;s looking for that one opening to speak to how it affects that person. And now we have buy-in forever. That&#8217;s how I get raving fans who just literally say I&#8217;m in this forever, and then they can&#8217;t shut up about it, because when you&#8217;re given the opportunity to live pain free and it takes a minimal dose to get it done somebody posted about this thing I did yesterday and the guy said you should just go to a chiropractor. Well, if you&#8217;re not a confident individual in your own line of work and who you are then you can&#8217;t give away what you don&#8217;t have. My answer could have gone two ways. I&#8217;m going to take that statement personally. How dare you come on my post and promote chiropractic? I&#8217;m not a chiropractor. That&#8217;s competition. No, it&#8217;s not. We&#8217;re in this together. We both, as a field, want to do this together. So I could have gone left and taken it personally and gotten in a fight. I chose to go right and say okay, real quick. Yes, chiropractic is amazing. I go to a chiropractor because I want to, not because I have to. When you do your minimal dose of a goscue every morning, you&#8217;re now making the chiropractor&#8217;s job easier, so he or she can now take you to the healing process of why they went into this work in the first place not to see you over and over and over and over again for the same stuff. So when your people do these cold showers, they are forever hormonally changed. That&#8217;s what you&#8217;re hearing. Is the hormone change? 0:28:08 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroWhen you&#8217;re talking with different clients, different people that you come into contact with athletes and they present with these seemingly impossible injuries or things that they&#8217;ve had in the past and they feel like they&#8217;ve done everything they can, they can&#8217;t change. I know that that&#8217;s not something that you believe in. How do you help them to realize that? First of all, it takes a lot of responsibility on their part to make these changes? Even the gentleman that you saw walking down the road probably doesn&#8217;t think that at this point of his life he can make a whole lot of changes to make himself better. You showed him in a quick glimpse that there are things. How do you break that barrier when somebody kind of pushes back on that, and how do you? What would you tell our audience that is maybe struggling with pain, maybe struggling with something that they&#8217;ve been dealing with for a long time and they haven&#8217;t been able to find that answer yet? 0:29:05 &#8211; Brian BradleyChange your verbal relationship with pain. So I&#8217;m going to read you something, and this book is Rehabilitation of the Spine. Just some light reading yeah, it&#8217;s a lot, but over my shoulder here. And then we&#8217;ll talk about the biocharger and not that. I other than remember we were talking about biohacking and the crazy stuff we&#8217;re doing. This is just crazy. So pain equals harm, is there? That&#8217;s their relationship with pain. Okay, I have pain If I get on that bike again at Herbie last time, so now the bike hurt me. Now I have a bad relationship with biking or golfing, and yet you want them to get over it. We got to change that from pain equals harm to pain equals. I wonder what it means. It&#8217;s a message, it&#8217;s a signal. Well, I wonder what that signal is. And the signal doesn&#8217;t have to be the police lights where it&#8217;s blue and red and you&#8217;re going oh no, somebody&#8217;s going to get arrested for bad things. I view it as Christmas lights. It&#8217;s here for a good reason, like it&#8217;s Christmas. Let&#8217;s learn from those lights. Let&#8217;s learn from that signal so that we can break the cycle, because even when the pain goes away, that bike, that son of a bike think about that person getting angry every time they look in the garage because that $7,000 bike can hurt them. Still on the wall. Well, it&#8217;s not. It&#8217;s not. You got to break that cycle by helping them embrace it. So it&#8217;s like my my knees got kicked in the face literally by a horse when she was younger, destroyed her whole face, got surgeries, all that stuff or whatever healed it. But think about the PTSD that goes with that. Does she ever want to be around a horse again? 0:31:01 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroLikely not. 0:31:02 &#8211; Brian BradleyIt&#8217;s that movie, the Horse Whisperer. It&#8217;s literally that movie. And you know, Robert Redford the horse whisperer was able to change the psychology by going. The horse did not want to hurt you, the bike didn&#8217;t want to hurt you, the golf club didn&#8217;t want to hurt you, CrossFit didn&#8217;t want to hurt you. Break the harm cycle. But again, you can&#8217;t give away what you don&#8217;t have If you don&#8217;t have a belief system, as a practitioner, that the body is trying to tell me something versus something&#8217;s wrong. You&#8217;re always focused on something&#8217;s wrong and I&#8217;m not saying ignore kidney symptoms, ignore liver symptoms and don&#8217;t get an MRI to see if it&#8217;s the C word. You know you got to go check that stuff, but even at that point, damn, I&#8217;m as diagnosed with cancer. Okay, let&#8217;s get busy, or let&#8217;s get busy dying. 0:32:02 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroI choose, let&#8217;s get busy. 0:32:04 &#8211; Brian BradleyIf it&#8217;s my time, it&#8217;s my time. I&#8217;m here for a good time not a long time, right, but I&#8217;d like to live like I&#8217;m 55. I&#8217;m one third of the weight through my life. I have a long time left. So if I bleed in the harm, then everything about it is harmful and then what happens is you go to fear. Avoidance equals deconditioning and then the endurance starts to wail because you start to go to bed. Rest that Instagram I posted yesterday 10% strength loss. For every week you&#8217;re immobilized. When you will mobilize a knee, you get permanent changes in how the knee is able to relate to different movements and the capsule shrink said all these different things happen. Now I don&#8217;t ever believe permanent is permanent. I believe you can interrupt permanent with the correct alignment over my left shoulder. Once you establish that, then everything becomes non permanent again. I think you can start that healing process. I think you can start that healing process. I think you can start that healing process as we&#8217;ve seen with people with bunions. 0:33:11 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroI want to take just a second to thank our new partner, which I&#8217;m really excited to announce is First Form. First Form is a company that is here in St Louis, based in St Louis. It&#8217;s a nutritional company that is doing incredible things in the world of nutrition and one of the reasons that we decided to partner with First Form is obviously we&#8217;re very impressed with their dedication to their products and the quality of their products. It really is the dedication to them and them helping their customers get real results, aside from just the products. We got a chance to go and actually visit the facility again here in St Louis and really walk the halls of the corporate offices. But we got to see the manufacturing plant or the warehouse, and it&#8217;s not just a place where they&#8217;re packaging supplements and shipping them out. It&#8217;s a culture, it&#8217;s a community and you can see that amongst the employees. You can see that their culture and their core values that are not just pieces of art on their wall. They&#8217;re actually letting them there and they&#8217;re helping to expand those into the community and really that&#8217;s why we partner with First Form. Obviously, their products are incredible. Otherwise we wouldn&#8217;t suggest them either. We use them on a regular basis, so you&#8217;re going to be hearing a lot more about their products and what they can do for your fitness, what they can do for your golf game, the protein powders, the multivitamins, the protein sticks, the hydration packets All of those products we&#8217;re going to highlight in future episodes. But we just wanted to really celebrate our new partnership with First Form. You can go to their website, firstformcom forward slash 18STRONG and we&#8217;re going to be doing a giveaway every single month with anybody that buys through that link. So go to FirstFormcom that&#8217;s P-H-O-R-M com. Forward slash 18STRONG. That&#8217;ll take you directly to their website and you can check their whole suite of products, including some of their fitness apparel and anything that&#8217;s purchased over there. You&#8217;re going to be enrolled into our list for our giveaway. I saw you make a post this might have been a couple of years ago and I thought it was really interesting, because at first I was like I&#8217;m not even sure what he&#8217;s talking about here. But you were talking about faith and you said that it&#8217;s important to have faith in your healing and I think when people hear faith they think of different things. But you said it&#8217;s important to have faith in the fact that what you&#8217;re doing is going to get you there and the methods that you&#8217;re doing, because if you don&#8217;t have faith, you&#8217;re not going to be committed to doing the right things right, you&#8217;re not going to be committed to doing your daily agascus, you&#8217;re not going to be committed to doing your, as we like to call our, efds. Can you speak on that a little bit, about knowing the right track that you&#8217;re moving on? Because I think that many times we&#8217;re in this place where you have back pain, you have hip pain, neck pain, shoulder pain, whatever it is, and you have all these different things you&#8217;re trying. You&#8217;re scrolling through Instagram. You see Brian Bradley post something, you see somebody else post something, you see all these different exercises and we all have this, you know, fix it now mentality, and we don&#8217;t know where to start, we don&#8217;t know where to go, and so if you don&#8217;t know which ones right, you keep grasping at straws. But when you recognize that there is a path, how do you help somebody figure out what that path is and give them that faith to continue and be committed and compliant Again? 0:36:29 &#8211; Brian Bradleythis is very scientific, almost NASA level stuff. Here you ready, we&#8217;re sharing it all. You&#8217;ve got the hashtag STFU, because if you don&#8217;t, then you&#8217;re no longer listening for the opening. Remember I said Peter Gossky was a master at listening for connection. That&#8217;s what I learned, because I love to talk, but only when there&#8217;s a goal. The goal would be to help that other person. So if my goal is to help that other person, let&#8217;s find the easiest route there by just actively listening to them. Tell me your story, take your time. Here&#8217;s a box of tissues. Okay, great. So I just have a question about your car wreck. Are you driving again? Well, of course, where&#8217;d you drive to last time? Let&#8217;s see where I&#8217;m taking them. Well, I went to Walmart. What&#8217;d you get? Well, I just bought stuff for the house and then you drove home. Yeah, but you&#8217;ve changed their state about that injury or that PTSD type of this. That will help them with the. The quote faith in their own body by getting rid of the pain equals harm. That&#8217;s not faith. That&#8217;s being scared. I&#8217;m not telling you not to be scared. We all have reasons to be scared. Look at what&#8217;s happening in the Middle East right now. I don&#8217;t even live there and I&#8217;m scared for all of them and this divergence. We have to literally find a way to have these discussions. I have faith that it&#8217;s going to remedy itself at a certain point. I truly do. It&#8217;s not going to be tomorrow, I can tell you that. But if you don&#8217;t have faith in and it&#8217;s a glass half full kind of thing, then you&#8217;re always looking for problems. Imagine dating somebody who&#8217;s always looking for problems, and that&#8217;s an analogy I give the people. Sometimes you hear yourself You&#8217;re always negative. How&#8217;s that ever going to be positive? If you&#8217;re always well, the other shoe is going to drop. Well, I was watching this show on Netflix the other day and I recommend everybody to watch the series, whether you agree or not, I don&#8217;t care. The fab five from queer I remember those guys. Yeah, dude, they just came. They just did a new series where they&#8217;re going into people&#8217;s homes and businesses and doing makeovers on everything. But there&#8217;s a young black man that&#8217;s in there with them who&#8217;s one of the five, and his play on psychology and how he understands and listens. I think the guy&#8217;s amazing. And the guy that does the hair, who wears the dressings he&#8217;s so flamboyant, makes the show, of course, but to watch. These guys have good intentions. I can&#8217;t stress enough what you&#8217;ll learn just by watching the show. And they had a young man in there where you had a really kind of beautiful fro and he was a. He&#8217;s a. I&#8217;m teaching people how to garden in their city to bring people that aren&#8217;t wealthy healthy food. I mean, come on, it&#8217;s so great on what he&#8217;s really focused on. But he had no idea because he he didn&#8217;t grow up like this. And here&#8217;s what he always said I don&#8217;t have a dress. Well, because I don&#8217;t feel like I deserve it. I don&#8217;t. I go into these board meetings with dirt on my fingernails and all this stuff and people look at me and I&#8217;m asking them for $100,000 to fund this. Excuse me, but you can&#8217;t give away what you don&#8217;t have. And he didn&#8217;t have self-confidence, self-love, until they got involved and said are you kidding? So we&#8217;re going to make you over physically, we&#8217;re going to help you understand things. Mentally, we&#8217;re going to have you walk into a new house with your wife Everything&#8217;s new because it&#8217;s time to step away from who you were not step away from what you were doing and what your goal is, but you got to bring something new to it and I just. I was traveling so I got to binge this a little bit. It was amazing to watch what they&#8217;re doing. Now. Remember, listen, I live in the Tony Robbins world. Which is what if you ask a different question? What if you do make that two millimeter shift and your faith, your belief, takes over versus you going well, I hope to someday be successful. Well, there&#8217;s a big hole in hope and when we get clients in chronic pain or limitations. I&#8217;m seeing a baseball player tomorrow who has he&#8217;s had Tommy John surgery. Now he&#8217;s worried about it coming back and I&#8217;m going to literally walk in and go congratulations, you&#8217;re all the stronger than it&#8217;s ever been. Well, what&#8217;s going to protect your shoulder? Because you&#8217;re still throwing wrong. Now let&#8217;s find a way to get you to Conor McGregor Hip drives the throw. The same thing we did with the guy walking hands on head brought his feet back in. Now he became a little bit more hip driven. You and I live in the hip driven world. If you&#8217;re not swinging a club with your hips, you&#8217;re going to lose clubhead speed. I don&#8217;t care what wedge you&#8217;re using, you&#8217;re going to skull it. You&#8217;re not going to hit under the ball. So faith is tied to beliefs and my job and all my therapists at Agasku are very well versed on shut up, listen for the opening and then ask a question. And then, when they ask a question, you can come in with your expertise. Let me show you the diaphragm blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Well, that&#8217;s great, but that&#8217;s what we do. I need to know how this translates into how it affects that person. And when you get to how, Jeff, which you do very well, there&#8217;s few people out there that can get to how, because they don&#8217;t have calm in their life. And I mean, I don&#8217;t even know how to say it any differently than when you decide to have calm in your life. It&#8217;s a whole different story, and I have it. You know, road rage doesn&#8217;t affect me. You can drive the way you want to drive. I drive a 500 horsepower car, but it&#8217;ll never be in a street race. You know it&#8217;ll never, because that&#8217;s my ego taking over and ego stands, in my opinion, for edging God out and I end up killing somebody. Not fun. I&#8217;ll give you a little story on that real quick, because judgment is one of the biggest things that shuts down all this belief system. There was a young kid and I live in a small town here in San Diego, but it&#8217;s a smallish town, call it, 8,000 houses or something right. You know that&#8217;s what they do. You know that&#8217;s what they do. This kid&#8217;s driving like a 1994 Mustang GT and he&#8217;s coming through the downtown like a bat out of hell. I mean he&#8217;s flying and I&#8217;m thinking, my God, there&#8217;s a park there, there&#8217;s a dog park, there&#8217;s the middle school, there&#8217;s the elementary. What is this kid doing? So I would be the jerk if I chased them. So I knew there were two red lights and I&#8217;ll finally catch them. So then I started following him. Now he&#8217;s thinking who&#8217;s the creeper following me? Kind of like the guy in Florida. And I caught him on a cul-de-sac where I rolled down my window and he rolled his down. He goes, what&#8217;s up? And I said beautiful car, I&#8217;m 55. I remember having one of these GTs in 1986 when they first started moving over to the five liter. Is that the 4.6 liter? Oh yeah, I&#8217;m no longer there to fight him, but I&#8217;m going to get my message across. And I said amazing. I said you know what&#8217;s going to ruin it for you with that car when my son&#8217;s leaving middle school and you run him over because of how fast you came through downtown. Please, for your own good, slow down, because your life will never be the same if you run over someone&#8217;s dog or someone&#8217;s kid or cause a wreck. And you know what his answer back to me was. I will absolutely do that. Thank you so much for not yelling at me. You have a way to communicate to your client, your customer, or to your lover, to your partner, to whoever which is why I referenced the Queer Eye stuff on Netflix, because I&#8217;m going to post about it. I&#8217;m going to film some of the show, probably get sued for it, okay, but I&#8217;m going to say you guys aren&#8217;t watching this for any other reason than just listen to how they&#8217;re speaking to this person and how they bring this young kid who was in a car wreck and he&#8217;s in a wheelchair and he&#8217;s thinking about suicide, and how they empower this kid to use his chair as a way to empower other people. And we&#8217;re going to make it easy on you we&#8217;re going to pay your rent for the next year, wow. So you got me into an apartment that&#8217;s all wheelchair friendly. You got me new clothes so I can walk out with a shirt that says look at me versus don&#8217;t look at me, I&#8217;m in a wheelchair, don&#8217;t judge me. Why did God do this to me, changing that belief system? I mean, I&#8217;ve been around that for 30 years. Robbins was one of my first clients I ever worked on and his whole belief system was why is it happening and why is your reaction that way? What if you chose? What if Peter Gosk you? What if your pain is there for a reason? And so that guy that got out of the shower. I would say to him tell me more. Well, what do you mean? Okay, I don&#8217;t need a video, thank you, but just tell me more about what you&#8217;re really feeling. What did the cold water do? I understand? You felt like a new man. What new man? And just listen. So this whole belief system I know we&#8217;re off track a little bit on sports performance, but half of it&#8217;s 70% of it is mindset. Forgive me one more example. I did a podcast on breast implants. What the hell do I know about breast implants? I&#8217;m a straight guy and I love breasts when I was younger. 0:47:30 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroOkay, great, wait you don&#8217;t still love them. 0:47:33 &#8211; Brian BradleyNo, I love them. But see, I was the only kid out of five that breasted. So my mom said I had a fetish. I don&#8217;t know something like that. But this young lady was doing a podcast on breast implant removal. Because of the toxins that go into that, no matter what, that her body was fighting it. Well, I can get on there. And she said Well, what made you the expert? And I jumped and said oh, my heterosexual male fan of boobs, blah, blah, blah. Breast fat, all this stuff. I&#8217;m joking around about it, but this is not a joking matter to her. And I said to her but this isn&#8217;t a joking matter. Call her Lisa, lisa, this is not a joking matter, so forget what I just said. I have a question for you before we start. You&#8217;re getting your breast implants removed in a week. Yes, I&#8217;m so excited. She&#8217;s smiling. I said I just have a question for you. Why&#8217;d you get them in the first place? When you can answer that question, then you&#8217;ll really be healed, because taking them out is not going to heal you as to why you were so insignificant without them. And I said you better have a box of tissues before you start talking, because here it comes. Sure enough, she starts crying and it&#8217;s her podcast. But if all these women could learn one message what about me? Didn&#8217;t I like that? I needed to go get that. So other people liked me and I&#8217;m not judging them. They look amazing, but why&#8217;d you get them? And to joke, on the other side, my mother. She had liver tubes in and I walk in and she&#8217;s 80. She has her top off and she&#8217;s cleaning the things. I go Mom, come on please, I&#8217;m your son, I can&#8217;t see you like this. Put those away&#8221;. And she goes oh, you don&#8217;t like my 36 loans. And we had that kind of relationship and I&#8217;ll remember that because they both passed away. But things like that, they happen to you for a reason. But you&#8217;ve got to be aware of yourself to be able to have those things happen to you, otherwise you&#8217;re just gonna skim by them. 0:49:30 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroBut I love about our conversations, Brian, is that we go in way different directions than I ever ever would imagine, but they&#8217;re always so pointed on deeper topics that mean so much more. And talking about the different, most of the people that we work with or that listen to the show we&#8217;re finding are kind of either they&#8217;re in the fitness profession, they&#8217;re in the medical profession or they&#8217;re the golfing crowd that&#8217;s pretty much kind of in the 35 and beyond, typically males. And what I found working with a lot of these guys is they find themselves in these positions where now they&#8217;ve been working, they&#8217;ve been raising a family, they&#8217;ve been working their tails off, they&#8217;re at a job all day, and it&#8217;s almost to the point where they just kind of get in this rut of doing their daily things, doing living life the way that they know how to live it, doing the best they can to get by, to support their family, and they&#8217;re not taking care of themself, they&#8217;re not doing the things that are going to really allow them. Let&#8217;s forget about golf. I mean, golf is a big piece of it, but they&#8217;re not allowing themselves the opportunity to live as fully as they can from a physical standpoint, from a longevity standpoint, and I think that it comes onto a lot of what you&#8217;re talking about, of having some of that respect for yourself and understanding that the only way that we can take care of the other people in our lives is that we have to take care of ourselves first. And what are some of the strategies that you found to help some of these types of individuals maybe break that cycle, break that mental state of I&#8217;m doing all these things and I don&#8217;t take the time to do it and take care of myself. 0:51:13 &#8211; Brian BradleyOkay, so if I heard you right, we men cavemen me big dumb animal. Men are from Mars, women are from Venus and we get upset at the woman because she doesn&#8217;t understand us and she gets upset at us because we don&#8217;t understand her. There&#8217;s not a chance that&#8217;s happening, unless you realize at first we&#8217;re different and as a man, I choose to self-deprecate a little bit and go I&#8217;m the big dumb animal here. You better dumb your conversation down so I get it and then I paraphrase stuff back to them. So when one of your guys, for example, let&#8217;s say a fitness guy there&#8217;s a fitness guy on Instagram who always has his shirt off. Long hair looks like a really bad version of Jesus. I don&#8217;t know. He&#8217;s on there, he&#8217;s like. So if you really want to, you know back pain to go away. You got to do this. I&#8217;m like whatever floats your boat, but instantly I go to my God. If this guy could only see himself through other people&#8217;s eyes and they&#8217;re asking why. You might as well get breast implants because your shirt&#8217;s off for a reason. Listen, I&#8217;m in pretty decent shape for 105 years old, but you&#8217;re not gonna see me going. Look at that. You know that bad. When I post something, there&#8217;s a reason I&#8217;m covered up, because I don&#8217;t need somebody coming in saying you look like shit or you look amazing. I don&#8217;t need either one of those, but what I am gonna do is I&#8217;m gonna speak the truth that that person needs to hear. And Paul Chek said it perfectly about nutrition, which I really liked the way he said it. He said look, there&#8217;s a lot of people teaching nutrition out there, but if you can&#8217;t teach nutrition without your shirt on, you shouldn&#8217;t be teaching nutrition. Right, that was a pretty decent statement, but that&#8217;s just not true. I&#8217;m an amazing pickleball coach. I&#8217;m even an amazing golf coach, amazing table tennis, amazing biking, downhill, boxing, baseball cause I&#8217;m a much better coach than I am player. When I watch a person throw, I&#8217;m looking not at where the ball is going, I&#8217;m looking at what they&#8217;re doing, what&#8217;s the release point, where&#8217;s the elbow, all that stuff and then simplifying it back to them when I hear and see people speaking. If you said to me, Brian, can you critique this video of this person showing core abdominals and a triangle on yoga, I would say, yeah, really wanna, really. I don&#8217;t even need to see it, just turn it up. Let me hear the language first. Okay, now let me see it. Oh, okay, now they&#8217;re barely wearing anything. Okay, I got it. But if you&#8217;re truly looking to affect people at a deeper inner level, then you gotta speak their language that fits their how. How does it affect me and how does it make me better? So when I was saying, look the biochargers over my shoulder, here I have this in my office. I do three recs a day. They&#8217;re about 12 minutes long. If I&#8217;m reading a book or like that book, I was doing some research in there yesterday Because I&#8217;m trying to get three things done at once. I don&#8217;t have so much time during the day, but when you can get a person, a male, especially because that&#8217;s the question you asked me, mostly guys when you can get a male to understand that he or she let&#8217;s see what I did there whether he or she can affect, can affect their lives in a positive way by thinking and acting differently. But you need to give them a reason to do it, which is how it makes them better, versus judging. The guy without the shirt on doesn&#8217;t speak to how it makes them better because he already thinks that does make them better. But let me tell you, sir, how it makes me feel. On the other end, I tune you out instantly. So your valuable information gets tuned out a lot of times. Listen, I&#8217;ve probably tuned people out with okay, every once in a while I drop a bad word. Okay, I get it. I&#8217;ve tuned them out with God. This guy&#8217;s loud and he loves to hear his own voice. I get it. I&#8217;m not for everybody, but the methods that I employ are absolutely for everybody. When you can get your aligned body first to do its job, then every other system, including your emotional reaction to something, changes. When you&#8217;re out of alignment and incongruent, then so is your reaction to stressors, and that&#8217;ll show up as I push the ball to the right. I suck at golf when I made 50 of these before. I can&#8217;t handle stress. I, I, I, I, I, I, I. I don&#8217;t hear any we in there. This is just about I, kobe Bryant. The Mamba mentality was not because I&#8217;m a failure, it&#8217;s I&#8217;m gonna outwork everybody, michael Jordan, I&#8217;m gonna outwork everybody. But it wasn&#8217;t to say to everybody, it was I&#8217;m gonna show you and I&#8217;m gonna perform at this level. That takes a major shift in psychology, absolutely. I know that was the longest answer to a very short question, but that&#8217;s what you get. That&#8217;s all right. That&#8217;s why we&#8217;re here. Long story, long story. 0:56:59 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroThat&#8217;s all right. That&#8217;s why we&#8217;re here. Long form podcast, right? Yep, all right, brother, I know you gotta get running. Is there anything else that that you wanted to mention anything you&#8217;re up to before we let everybody go, and where&#8217;s the best place people can go find you? 0:57:12 &#8211; Brian BradleyYeah, guys, you can find me personally and I answer all my own DMs. If you&#8217;re confused about something, upset about something, if you wanna know something else, go to Instagram under the Brian Bradley T-H-E. Brian Bradley, because Brian Bradley was taken and the guy wouldn&#8217;t sell it to me. You also have at Igotsky method. I do have a URL which would be igotskycom slash podcast. You do that. It&#8217;ll move you into a place where you&#8217;ll be opting in for some emails from us and then, if you wanna talk to me personally, my team will get you in touch with me. 0:57:43 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroExcellent, Brian. Always a great pleasure, always fun to catch up with you. It&#8217;s been way too long and just thank you for coming on helping out the 18-ster on crew and look forward to bringing you on again in the near future, hopefully. 0:57:59 &#8211; Brian BradleyNear future would be a good thing, instead of us reading five years or whatever it was that we did because there&#8217;s a lot of good information and maybe we open it up to something where you allow some of your insiders to come on and ask questions good idea. 0:58:15 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroThat&#8217;s a great idea. We will definitely do that, and good luck with the pickleball, my friend. I expect to see some more pickleball videos. 0:58:23 &#8211; Brian BradleyYeah, I don&#8217;t need luck, I put in the work. 0:58:27 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroSpoken like a true champion. Thanks, Brian. 0:58:30 &#8211; Brian BradleyBuddy, love you. Talk to you later. Tell your tech crew thanks for the help too. 0:58:33 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroYou got it. You got it. Thanks, Brian. Thanks for joining us this week on the 18-Strong Podcast with our good friend, Brian Bradley. If you want any more information on this episode any of the links we talked about in the show just go to 18strongcom. It&#8217;s episode number 354. You&#8217;ll find all the information over there. And don&#8217;t forget to check out our partners, linksoul and FirstNorm. Train hard, practice smart and play better golf.

Guest: Hayden Buckley &#8211; PGA Tour golferHost: Jeff PelizzaroEpisode Number: 353Podcast: The 18STRONG PodcastPartners: Linksoul, 1stPhorm Summary Join us for an exciting conversation with PGA golfer, Hayden Buckley, where we touch on his journey in the world of golf, the challenges he faced, and how he overcame them. Hayden candidly shares his experiences on the PGA tour, the effects of his rib injury, and how the new PGA tour structure impacts his participation in signature events. He also talks about his amazing hole-in-one at the iconic 17th hole at TPC Sawgrass. Listen in as we discuss how Hayden stayed competitive even after a break from the game due to his injury. He reveals the mental and technical aspects that contributed to his success and how his experience on the tour has helped him manage his thoughts and emotions in high-pressure situations. We also examine his golf strategies and his work with Scott Fawcett to optimize his performance. We delve into the balance between consistency and top-five finishes and the role of stats and analytics in golf. In our chat, Hayden unveils his unique approach to the PGA tour, limiting his time on the course and taking more rest days. Finally, he shares the thrilling story behind his hole-in-one at TPC Sawgrass and his experiences playing in front of large crowds. Hayden&#8217;s journey offers valuable insights for every golf enthusiast, so don&#8217;t miss this episode! Main Topics (00:03) Hayden Buckley&#8217;s Injury and PGA Return Hayden Buckley talks PGA tour structure, his hole-in-one at TPC Sawgrass, and Lynxhole discounts. (10:47) A Golfer&#8217;s Experience in a Tournament Hayden&#8217;s success was attributed to his positive mindset, technical game, and Si Woo Kim&#8217;s chip-in on the 17th hole. (16:48) Mental Preparation and Handling Pressure Hayden Buckley used mental and golf technique strategies to manage emotions and stay competitive on the PGA tour, taking breaks and practicing differently. (25:31) Reviewing the Golf Performance and Strategy Hayden Buckley&#8217;s performance, consistency, top-five finishes, stats, analytics, driving, and rib injury are discussed, with focus on Scott Fawcett&#8217;s optimization of off-the-tee performance. (34:29) Improving Golf Performance and Partnership Announcement Hayden Buckley, PGA, is taking a break from the PGA tour, playing nine holes a day, taking Mondays off, and partnering with First Form to promote nutrition and wellness. (39:27) Impressive Partnership and Memorable Golf Moment Hayden Buckley&#8217;s success is explored, focusing on his mental and technical game, strategies, and new approach to the PGA tour. (48:38) Crowds&#8217; Impact on Golf Performance Hayden Buckley recounts his PGA tour experience, from his rookie year to the US Open, and his hole-in-one at TPC Sawgrass, emphasizing the impact of grandstands on performance. (52:33) Golf Crowds and Future Expectations Hayden Buckley shares his experience on the PGA Tour, using crowds to his advantage, adapting to the new structure, and aiming for the top 10 on the FedEx Cup. (01:02:15) Sawgrass Redemption and Season Plans Hayden Buckley, PGA, plans to limit course time to nine holes a day, prepared for tournaments like the Memorial and FedEx Cup, and shared his story of a hole-in-one at Sawgrass. Follow Hayden Instagram: @hbuckley13 Episode Partners: LINKSOUL:&nbsp;For your 20% discount on LINKSOUL gear, go to&nbsp;18strong.com/linksoul&nbsp;or click the logo above. 1st Phorm: Try any of the 1st Phorm products with FREE SHIPPING, go to 1stphorm.com/18strong.com More Cool Stuff to Check Out: To continue the conversation and ask any questions you may have, head over to the&nbsp;18STRONG Movement group on Facebook. 18STRONG Pro Shop (Get your 18STRONG gear!) 18STRONG Resources (All of the cool stuff we recommend: products, books, golf stuff, etc &#8211; and discount codes for the 18STRONG Crew) Want the full episode transcript? (click the &#8220;+&#8221; ????????) 0:00:04 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroThe 18STRONG podcast, episode number 353 with Hayden Buckley, pga, to our golfer. What&#8217;s up guys? Welcome back to the 18STRONG the podcast, where our mission here is to help you build a stronger game, because we believe that everybody deserves to play better, longer. This week we have our buddy, Hayden Buckley, long-time friend of the 18STRONG podcast and 18STRONG community, on our show, and Hayden&#8217;s here to talk about his year. Last year he ended up number 60 in the FedEx Cup playoffs but suffered a bit of a rib injury or intercostal injury at the end of the year. That really impacted his year. So we talked about how that impacted his position at the end and then also what the new structure of the PGA tour is going to look like next year and how that impacts his ability to play in tournaments like the signature events we discussed. You know what it means for him for the FedEx Cup playoffs and also what it was like getting back to playing in the FedEx Cup playoffs after that injury. And then we really close out with talking about his insane hole in one that he had at TPC Sawgrass on the iconic number 17 hole, the island green and what that meant to him and really how that&#8217;s going to live on and in for me from here on out, so you&#8217;re going to enjoy this episode. Right after this, our partners over at Linksoul have been providing us with the best apparel for both on the course and off the course, from polos to t-shirts like the one I have on right now. Everything that they have is meant to be worn from the golf course to wherever you&#8217;re going next, whether that be casual, whether that be to the beach there&#8217;s all different options over there. So go to 18STRONG dot com slash Linksoul. You&#8217;ll get 20% off of anything in your cart over on Linksoul&#8217;s website. So again, 18STRONG dot com slash Linksoul for our favorite brand of apparel for anything on the golf course and off. Now let&#8217;s get to this week&#8217;s interview. Hey, buckley, welcome back to the 18STRONG podcast. Buddy, sounds like it&#8217;s a little little toasty down there, huh yeah, it&#8217;s. 0:02:24 &#8211; Hayden BuckleyIt&#8217;s nice to be back. I wish I was maybe a little more north right now. I think it was 95 this morning out on the course, so I&#8217;m enjoying the AC right now. 0:02:33 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroSo when, when are you back in competition? Now? I know this week is the as we&#8217;re recording is the Fortinet, so you&#8217;re taking this week off, but what&#8217;s what&#8217;s the first event? 0:02:43 &#8211; Hayden Buckleyyeah, I&#8217;m gonna start back at Sanderson farms. You know, the home state event in Mississippi, obviously a lot of good history there. I think that starts maybe first week of October, so we&#8217;ve got another two or three weeks. You know, I just thought, you know, I could have played an apple this week honestly, honestly, physically. But you know, with my injury at the end of last year I thought it was probably better. I came back a little early playing Memphis, I think, against doctors orders, I kind of. I may have ignored a few things, but I came back and, you know, felt great, I really I felt great sense, but I thought it&#8217;d be good to just get a full rest in and, you know, really hit like five out of seven term is this fall instead of all seven. 0:03:22 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroYou know I&#8217;ll have plenty of chances to play good yeah, I mean, given the situation and we&#8217;ll talk about your injury in a sec here, but you know you&#8217;re going right into the playoffs kind of wanted to try to make a little bit of a run there and see what happens. So tell us, refresh it for anybody that doesn&#8217;t know what was going on with you. What happened with the injury, how did it happen? You, what was the whole, the whole thing? 0:03:46 &#8211; Hayden Buckleyyeah, you know, I think it was travelers championship I had missed a few cuts in a row. I played well to PGA championship, missed maybe two or three cuts in a row leading up to the travelers and shop four or five under on Sunday. On Friday maybe missed a cut by one, maybe two. And, you know, woke up Saturday morning, decided to fly home to Florida hang out with my wife, our dog, just, you know, a relaxing weekend. After three or four missed cuts. I needed something like that, you know. And woke up Saturday morning 6 am flight, which was pretty miserable, they all are. Got home around noon, you know, kind of complained about some pain in my ribs. You know, figured it was just from traveling, from playing kind of normal stuff for me. And you know, got home that night and I was like man, I still can&#8217;t. I still can&#8217;t really breathe. Well, it&#8217;s still hurting. Something&#8217;s kind of off, let&#8217;s sleep on it. Woke up some Sunday morning and I was like man, this is, this is the same same injury that I felt yesterday. Nothing&#8217;s improved. And sure enough, monday I was in an MRI machine getting it checked out and sure enough, it was a torn intercostal muscle. I guess it&#8217;s somewhere. You know it probably better than I do, but somewhere in the rib cage something tore and I was told you don&#8217;t really feel it. Maybe that day, because you know, again Friday I felt no pain. I played good golf, shot three or four under, kind of felt like I turned a little page in my struggling of three weeks and, you know, felt nothing at all. And then all of a sudden Saturday I&#8217;m like it was. You know we laugh about it now but I was telling my wife like I&#8217;m laying down in the bed and I can&#8217;t breathe and I&#8217;m like, look, I, I promise you I&#8217;m not out of shape or you know I&#8217;m not, I&#8217;m not getting old, I just something. Something is really happening every time I take a deep breath and it was. It was a pretty miserable week. I would say probably seven to ten days of just every breath. You know we were sitting there eating dinner. She made me last one day and I said you got to get out, I got to get out of the room, you got to get out. I can&#8217;t even laugh, I can&#8217;t sneeze, kind of those little basic things I couldn&#8217;t do. But after about ten days and started to feel better, got into Pete&#8217;s tea, found these really great doctors down here at HSS West Palm. They were just unbelievable. They I mean they. They told me about six to eight weeks was the time frame to come back and I was looking at the schedule. Like Memphis is in six weeks. You know I&#8217;m 42nd on the FedEx Cup playoffs list. You know clearly I&#8217;m in the playoffs but I&#8217;ve got a good chance of making Eastlake this year with a couple you know a couple good finishes to the year. And so it was pretty tough to hear that six to eight week minimum. But I went to PT, you know, three days a week. First two weeks was kind of relaxing, you know. As you know, you got to let the injury kind of calm down and slowly got back into it. I was a little bit scared but also I told myself you know what&#8217;s there to lose, you know I&#8217;m gonna do it right, but also I&#8217;ve got my card for next year, no matter what. So I mean, obviously I don&#8217;t know who knows the the new schedule, but the fall is not as can&#8217;t say, it&#8217;s not as important. But if you&#8217;re in the top 50 the fall really means nothing. And that was kind of where I was at the time in the top 50 and you know. So I kind of went in with like an all or nothing kind of attitude and, you know, started working hard and in about six weeks in I was at Memphis and hadn&#8217;t swung a club in six weeks, a little nervous. On Tuesday I went out and played nine holes for the first time and you know I hit some little, you know probably 280-yard drives out there right down the middle and I really felt good but I was nervous, you know, as you can expect, and you know I ended up playing well. It didn&#8217;t help that it was 140 degrees in Memphis, Tennessee, at the time. But you know, physically swinging the club I felt okay, but more physically like actually playing golf, walking 18 holes every day, that kind of hurt a little bit, I&#8217;d say. After the week, you know, I was saying I finished T40 or whatever I finished, had no chance of making the top 50. Unfortunately I&#8217;d fallen back to you know, 55, 56 at the time and needed probably a top 10 to get to the next week and you know it was one of those. Like you know, I got through it, played the playoff event like I wanted to, pretty close to home where I grew up. I&#8217;ve got, you know, as much time as I need in this fall to fully heal. So that&#8217;s kind of the goal now was let&#8217;s do as minimal golf from Memphis until now, which I&#8217;ve done. I&#8217;ve maybe played three times maybe. So on a club two or three times, let&#8217;s do a lot of PT, a lot of work. Now. Just get stronger and skip Napoli, let&#8217;s go to Mississippi and so you know, if you look at the calendar, a good, solid two months of rest, maybe a month and a half. I think that&#8217;s the recipe for me, at least long term, to get back, have success and at the end of the day I could skip every tournament this fall and still have a season next year. So you know, the goal is to be back in January and be healthy at Sony that&#8217;s. We&#8217;ve had a little bit of success there in the last two years, so that&#8217;s the goal right now. You know, unfortunate, I&#8217;m still a little upset about it. You know a lot of it&#8217;s my fault, sure, not taking care of my body for whatever reason. You know you can always be better, better food, better rest, you know, whatever it may be, but you know part of the process, I&#8217;ve been hurt before. Actually, when we met me and you was pretty much, I would say it was about a year after I got hurt, but my junior year of college I got hurt and ran into you about a year later. So good things come from injury sometimes so. 0:09:28 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroDo you have any any issues with it at all? Do you feel it at all? Is it in the back of your head at all when you&#8217;re out there playing? 0:09:34 &#8211; Hayden Buckleystill. You know, every once in a while I and I talked to my PT about this. You might have some insight. But you know, if anything I&#8217;ve noticed, like a little bit of shortness of breath, you know it&#8217;s because it is in that rib region where you&#8217;re taking deep breaths and I, you know, I don&#8217;t know if there&#8217;s just a little damage still up there or what. But you know, I have noticed some issues with some cardio and maybe that&#8217;s just the rest that I&#8217;ve gotten the last three months and haven&#8217;t done as much walking on the golf course. But you know, besides that, not really I&#8217;m working out a lot. Even in PT we&#8217;re doing a lot of strength stuff, you know. You know, feeling kind of like myself, like I did three months ago, um, but you know I&#8217;m not trying to push anything, obviously that&#8217;s that&#8217;s. The hardest part is I don&#8217;t want to swing as hard as I can, like I used to, and, um, you know I&#8217;ll get there, though I think I&#8217;ll get there. But at the same time I&#8217;ve kind of noticed, you know, my iron plays improved a little bit, swinging a little bit smoother. You know, even at Memphis when I was hurt, it was probably the best I&#8217;ve driven the ball. I think I was top six or seven and strokes came off the tee that week. Really, I mean, it was some of the best I drove the ball all year and I know I wasn&#8217;t hitting it as far, but something, something kind of clicked, I don&#8217;t know what it was. Um, I think, yeah, I think we&#8217;re on the right track. You know, obviously you want to be cautious and not re-injure yourself. You know that&#8217;s the only thing that can keep me out of playing good golf. Um, but you know I&#8217;ll have, I&#8217;ll have good programs and I&#8217;ll be ready to go. 0:11:03 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroYou&#8217;re in about three weeks so, looking back on last season, you mentioned the Sony. You&#8217;ve had some success there. Obviously last year came in second place. Um, you know you were right there all day on Sunday. Uh, See Woo Kim came in and shot a 64, I think on that that final day. Um, I mean just just came in but you had I mean I&#8217;ve got it written down here four, four rounds, I think, two, 64s, a 67, a 68. So, like, coming in on a Sunday, did you have the lead going into Sunday? 0:11:36 &#8211; Hayden BuckleyI believe it was a two, I think it was a two shot lead. I actually had a crazy Saturday round where I didn&#8217;t do anything on the front. I think I might have three putted for par on nine, a par five, and I was kind of like, you know, we, we need to do something. But again, I hadn&#8217;t played all winter. You know, last winter I got married, went on a honeymoon, we, you know, we moved to Jupiter. I didn&#8217;t touch a club all winter and showed up to Sony and it was like here we are with the lead on Sunday. It was kind of it was a little bit bizarre, but I did hole out for eagle on 10 on that Saturday round and then I think I made I want to say I parred the rest of the, the next seven holes maybe, made a bogey somewhere and then made eagle on 18. So I had two eagles and nine holes, took a two shot lead and I&#8217;m sitting there going. Man, this is like what&#8217;s going on. You know I haven&#8217;t played in a month and a half, maybe two months, it&#8217;s all kind of. But again my brain was kind of low expectations. You know, I was just kind of out there enjoying it and you know I played good on Sunday. I think I know I buried. I think I buried the first hole in Sunday and so I got off to a pretty decent start and played solid. I just I know down the stretch I made a bogey on 15. I knew I was like that&#8217;s gonna kind of hurt me, but I came back and burdened 16 immediately, had a look on 17 and had a look on 18. There you know I laugh. Now I&#8217;m working with a putting coach, eric Dietrich, down here in Jupiter, and Actually a guy I went to college with. You know we played college golf together and he&#8217;s now a putting coach and I saw him one time before I went to Hawaii. We cleaned up a few things and then we kind of joke, we look back at the videos that were on TV. You know the pot I made on 16. I had the worst stance, the worst Grip, the worst, everything made the pot. And then on 18 I had a pretty awful pot and missed it. But you know we look back at that where we were and I had a great putting week. You know looked awful from a technical standpoint but I had a great putting week and we we laughs about it a lot because now we&#8217;ve cleaned up a lot of things, my putting&#8217;s improved. I think I went from, you know, 175 and putting last year to maybe 85 this year. So we&#8217;ve, we&#8217;ve done a lot of great things this year. I&#8217;ve been really enjoying that work. But again, you know, I almost won a golf tournament Not looking great putting and I personally felt like I put a terrible, but the stats that I put up pretty good. So you know, I did everything I could. I made 30 footers for birdie all day Sunday and I didn&#8217;t lose by any means, I just got beat. That&#8217;s kind of the phrase I told myself is the guy shot six on your own Sunday and he was the last group, it&#8217;s really. He did chip in on 17, which hurt. I made a pot, I&#8217;m not kidding. You was a 10 second window. I made the puddle and 16 Everybody went nuts. You know, I&#8217;m kind of my heart&#8217;s racing, I&#8217;m feeling great. I looked up at the scoreboard and it literally adjusted. You could see it go from T1 to my name, just jumping on top and I&#8217;m like alright, this is, this is my time, you know. And then 10 seconds, I&#8217;m not, I&#8217;m not off the green yet on 16 and everybody goes nuts on 17 and so obviously I assumed he made birdie. I end up seeing the video he chipped in. You know Hit a great chip, made it and then made a good birdie on 18 and I didn&#8217;t, so just got beat. You know, looking back on it it set me up for a great you know a great rest of the year. Unfortunately it did keep me out of the Masters and you know a lot of different perks of winning, but I know that I&#8217;ll have. I&#8217;ll have many more opportunities for that. 0:15:14 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroYeah, I mean I pretty much watched that whole, that whole day. It was awesome to be able to sit and watch pretty much every shot that you hit that day right and Text him back and forth with people. You know, people in the 18STRONG crew, they&#8217;re all, they&#8217;re all Hayden Buckley fans. So I&#8217;m getting text left and right and Literally watch you sink that putt and then you&#8217;re right, I mean it was within seconds. He chips that, that ball in. But what impressed me so much that day was just watching you and Like the way you carried yourself throughout the day and I want to get some insights into, if you remember, kind of your mindset, just kind of going through that day. You know, knowing that you&#8217;re tied for the lead, you&#8217;re in the lead, you&#8217;re, you&#8217;re right there for the lead. But you mentioned that you birdied after one of your bogeys. You had two bogeys that day and you both of those you birdied the very next hole and I thought that that was so cool to see because each time you just kind of bounce back and you&#8217;re like all right, right back in it and you know just having that mentality because we&#8217;ve all Been in our own games where you know one shot, one bad shot takes you down a rabbit hole. We see it happen into the pros, you know. I&#8217;m sure you&#8217;ve had experiences out there where you hit a bad shot or two and the round just kind of goes off the Rails. But this one you just bounce right back, you&#8217;re right back in it. So what was kind of your thought process through the day? I know you said you hadn&#8217;t played in a long time. It was kind of like getting back in the swinging things. But here you are getting ready to possibly win a pj champion or pj tournament and and you know what was it like. 0:16:45 &#8211; Hayden BuckleyYeah, I think it&#8217;s timing. Honestly, I mean, I really do. I think, it being the first term of the spring may not playing for a month and a half, I had no thoughts. You know I, obviously on Saturday night I had thoughts. I&#8217;m sitting there going, oh wow, I&#8217;m about to win a golf tournament. This is anything I was nervous everybody is. If they say they&#8217;re not, they&#8217;re crazy. And you know, I kind of fight that with myself, thinking like you&#8217;re not nervous, don&#8217;t worry about it. But it&#8217;s like man, just embrace the nerves. I Think the timing of it helped, you know, helped and hurt, right like I. You know it&#8217;s hard to find confidence when you haven&#8217;t played in a month and a half because there&#8217;s some shots that you need to hit that you know, if you haven&#8217;t worked on it in a month and a half, like you&#8217;re just swinging it hoping it works out. That happened to me on number 11. I made bogey on Sunday, a little par 3, you know I hit a shot. It was into the wind and I tried to hit a shot a little too hard, kind of forgot like hey, man, if it&#8217;s 185 into the wind, we probably can&#8217;t hit a seven. You know I kind of just from lack of, not experience but lack of playing for a month and a half. But at the same time and I&#8217;m a guy that I don&#8217;t believe in practicing every single day I do believe in, you know, trying to get better every day, but I don&#8217;t believe in like I have to swing a golf club every single day to get better. I mean, look at me, I&#8217;ve sat on the couch the last Four months and worked on my body and I feel better than I ever have golf lies. But again, I think timing, where you know that bow, you know Levin, came from lack of playing, but the birdie on 12 came from, you know, my head. I&#8217;m not pissed off, I&#8217;m just like let&#8217;s just send dry. It&#8217;s kind of a short hole guys lay up on. I said, look, let&#8217;s just send driver down there. Who cares, I&#8217;ve got a flip wedging, I make birdie and I think it was a little bit of Not playing for a month and a half. But also, you know that tournament being the first of the spring, everything&#8217;s kind of fresh because I mean, I&#8217;m not gonna lie, you know, look at my schedule. After that, I did nothing For a month and a half. I did absolutely nothing and it was frustrating. There was several rounds where, just like that birdie on or that bogey on, 11, I had a shot like that early in a round and my whole round was over and that was coming. And I&#8217;m you know I&#8217;m top 30 on the FedEx Cup. Whoa, what am I upset about? Like, if I miss a cut? You know I&#8217;m still top 30 on the FedEx Cup. You know I&#8217;m not fighting for my card. I that second at Hawaii almost locked up. I&#8217;d have to go look back at it, but it almost locked up a spot in Memphis. You know it&#8217;s 300 FedEx Cup points. I finished fifth in. Japan in the fall and though you know the fall was still counting in last year. So I&#8217;m almost in the playoffs in January and obviously you don&#8217;t know that you don&#8217;t want to just settle for that, but I do think you know you look at those two months after there were some struggles. So again, I don&#8217;t think there&#8217;s a secret code to you know, guys tell about sports psychologist and these mental people, whatever. I think I think it&#8217;s a little bit different. I think you know you&#8217;re gonna have moments that go high and low. I think managing them, managing them. And you know really, you know really turn in those like you know, if you look back at missing a cut by one or two and yeah, you&#8217;re pissed off, you know making that cut by one or two. Instead, it&#8217;s not like, oh, let&#8217;s turn this bogey into winning the golf tournament, let&#8217;s just turn this bogey into making a cut, getting 20 FedEx cut points and moving on. But again, I also am a guy that thinks missing cuts helps. I missed like six out of seven cuts last summer Before the us open and finished 12th, you know. So it&#8217;s like it&#8217;s a weird marriage of like I don&#8217;t believe in. You have to be the most positive person in the world on the golf course and if you make a bogey you should smile walking off the green. I&#8217;m actually the opposite. When I make a bogey, I want to be a little bit upset, but I want to use it. Like you said in Hawaii, I want to use that to make a birdie on the next hole. I you know a lot of people have said you know, by the time you hit your next shot, be over it Whatever. There&#8217;s a lot of things that happens when you&#8217;re in contention on a Sunday. You know your your mind&#8217;s racing if you&#8217;re not careful. And I think it&#8217;s just more experience. The more times you&#8217;re in those situations, the more you learn from it. You know from a for a regular Amateur that&#8217;s playing every day like if they&#8217;re like I want to break 80. I actually had a buddy of mine text me. I think he broke 80 for the first time, maybe two weeks ago. Uh, but the week before that he was saying man, I shot 81 today and I tripled the last hole and I said, well, what were you thinking about? and he was like man, I was thinking about breaking 80 on the last hole, 100%, and you know it&#8217;s fun to do that because, like in the same way, like I&#8217;m over here, like I want to shoot 64, and you know it&#8217;s not the same scores, but we&#8217;re all trying to do the same thing. And you know, I said why were you thinking about that? And he said, well, I&#8217;ve never done it. And I said, yeah, I&#8217;ve never won a pga tour event. But you know I was thinking about it coming down the stretch and I do think you know, did it affect me on 18 at Hawaii, when I was thinking about, hey, a birdie can win you a golf term or get you in a playoff. I don&#8217;t think it hurt me, I think it just made me realize the moment I was in. And you know I hit a great tee shot, a decent second shot, a pretty good chip, and missed a putt. You know kind of life goes on and it just so happened that that putt was for, you know, the win or for the playoff. You know I made two bogeys on that side. So you can look back again. I think timing of everything is important. You know when you make a bogey, if you make a bogey on 18 versus on 1,. You know everything&#8217;s different. So I think handling being able to handle each bogey the same way for me Is important, you know. Or each miss putt, you know the putt on 18, it&#8217;s no different than the putt I missed on 17. You know I missed a putt on 17 for birdie made par and I was pretty happy walking off the green. So again, it&#8217;s hard in tournament play to you know. Look at every little putt is the same, but at the end of the day they all are the same and they all count. So but mentally, I think you know Staying calm does help. But you look at Tyro Hatten and some other guys that are known to you know kind of express themselves. They&#8217;ll tell you this. John Rom, I play with him several times and he&#8217;ll tell you. You know he likes to express himself a little bit when he&#8217;s angry, but he won&#8217;t let it affect him on the next hole. And I think you know nobody really knows what&#8217;s going on inside of a player. I know I hear I watched a lot of golf, actually believe it or not, while I was hurt. I watched. 0:23:22 &#8211; Jeff Pelizzaroyou know this for me, I don&#8217;t watch golf at all. 0:23:24 &#8211; Hayden BuckleyUh, I wanted to watch a little bit. You know, I just want to watch the playoff. I want to watch eastlake, just kind of see how the courses were playing and smaller fields and guys got upset and they&#8217;re guaranteed to make $10 or $15 million and they&#8217;re still upset at making a bogey on the third hole of the tournament. That&#8217;s just how we are. We&#8217;re competitors and everybody wants to win. Everybody wants to play well. So I do think guys work hard mentally. I work hard mentally in different areas. Some guys like sports psychologists, some people like therapists, some people like me. I like to just talk to my wife sometimes and she does a great job of just calming me down a little bit when I&#8217;m upset after a round. That&#8217;s the hardest part is forgetting it, especially during the day, getting to the next day and having kind of a clean slate. I feel like I did that pretty well in Hawaii, but again I lost it for those two months after Hawaii. Maybe a little bit of extra pressure, like hey, all of a sudden you&#8217;re a top player, you&#8217;re in the top 30 on the FedEx, like Eastlake is calling you in six months. But it&#8217;s like, how are you thinking about six months from now when it&#8217;s January. So I think I got caught up a little bit in that last year. But again I&#8217;ll learn from that this year and not let it happen again. 0:24:45 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroWhen you look back on last year as a whole, you mentioned you had several missed cuts. You had some really great tournaments, a couple T5s, us Open, obviously the second place in the Sony Overall, and I know we know how the end finished out with the injury and everything. But when you look back at that, where do you say? What do you look at and say are you first of all happy with the way that it went, or are there things where you&#8217;re like I could clean this up a little bit? I need to clean this up a little bit. This I&#8217;m really happy about? Do you break it down like that and look at it that way, or just kind of yeah, 100%. 0:25:24 &#8211; Hayden BuckleyI think it&#8217;s probably like any business out there. You look at your end of the year statistics and say this is what we need to improve. My first year on tour was hey, you&#8217;re literally 180th in putting and there&#8217;s not 180 guys playing tournament. What&#8217;s going on? I think a lot of that had something to do with ball striking. I hit it really well, maybe had a lot more 30 footers than most guys. Whatever it may be, a lot of those things matter, but we looked at that last year. We cleaned that up again. We said if I&#8217;m ever a top 100 putter, I&#8217;m going to be a top 50 player on the tour every year. There&#8217;s no doubt. This year, obviously there&#8217;s disappointment, but I kept my job. I competed, I had chances to win. I think Hilton Head was one of my better tournaments. I really had a chance to. I think I birdied two or three of the last four holes on Sunday and really had a chance to do something. I had a close look on 18-2, especially in the elevated event that was coming off of a T9. The week before too, I had really great showings. But to me it&#8217;s kind of a balance of do I want consistency where I&#8217;m top 20 in every week or do I just want to have five top fives? It&#8217;s kind of a weird balance where you look at a guy like JT who I think he made almost every cut. He played in and didn&#8217;t make playoffs. He probably felt better each week on Saturday than I did because I missed about half my cuts. It&#8217;s kind of a weird balance of are you better off playing good two or three weeks out of the year or do you want to play? Obviously you play like Scottie Scheffler in top 12 almost every week. I think that takes care of itself. I would say, looking back, I&#8217;m impressed with the way I played. I&#8217;m a little disappointed Again. I think my strokes gained approach. My iron play was a little off. My wedge play was a little off. If you look at it I know it&#8217;s pretty deep in the hundreds, like maybe 150. Not good statistically speaking, especially with how I drove the ball. There&#8217;s no doubt that I&#8217;m not the biggest guy out there, I&#8217;m not the longest guy, but my strokes gained off the tee has been top 10, I think, two years in a row. 0:27:41 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroI&#8217;ve got it Eighth strokes gained off the tee, which I thought was cool to hear. When you were saying that you were driving the ball about as well as you had in Memphis. It&#8217;s like that says a lot because you&#8217;re consistently up there with the tops. 0:27:57 &#8211; Hayden BuckleyRight, that&#8217;s what I was worried about was how am I supposed to make this driver swing with, if you talk about your rib, how am I supposed to make this bigger driver swing and really hit it? I was able to and it worked out. The drivers is just freed me up for so many opportunities to play. Well, your approach is not as good as it has been and your puddings improved. I&#8217;m almost sitting there waiting again. Going back to all the missed cuts, I drove the ball Napa. Actually I have this thing with Napa where I was first in strokes gained off the tee last year at Napa and missed the cut. I drove the ball better than anybody in the field and I missed the cut by a lot. It can be a lot of things, but bottom line have to improve some wedge play, a little bit of iron play. I&#8217;d say my long irons were pretty good, long par-3s. I&#8217;m making some birdies on into par-5s and two. I&#8217;m not having much trouble, just some of the shorter holes, the easier holes that guys are making birdies on. I&#8217;m not. I&#8217;m still competing making birdie from 200 yards. It&#8217;s just a matter of time, I think, until the wedges clean up a little bit. I&#8217;ve already seen improvement too, which is great. The wedges get cleaned up, the short irons get cleaned up. There&#8217;s a recipe for a lot of good golf coming, if I can get that handle. 0:29:16 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroHow much are you guys looking at the stats and who helps you with that throughout the season? Are you looking at that and then saying, okay, this is what I need to go work on, or are you just kind of more feeling out what you need to practice and work on week to week in the season? I&#8217;m sure off season is a little different. 0:29:33 &#8211; Hayden BuckleyYeah, the tour has their database of stats that we can look at. I&#8217;ve done some of the decade stuff as well with Scott Fawcett. I think I try not to look a ton. I do let some of my team look at it and diagnose it and say this is what you really need to work on. But I also think that week to week can be so different, different grasses. I could have gotten the bad waves. Maybe I wasn&#8217;t feeling as good that week physically. I think it&#8217;s not like oh, this week I played terrible, my irons were awful, let&#8217;s go make a change. I might have just had a bad week swinging it. It&#8217;s not like if I ever have a bad week driving the ball, it&#8217;s like, hey, you have about 99% of the weeks Pretty good driving, so just kind of flush it. But I haven&#8217;t hired a stats guy officially. There&#8217;s a lot of them out there that they look at your stats every day. They come out with you and practice rounds and kind of say this is how you should play the course. But I use Scott Fawcett again with Decade. He maps out courses and kind of tells you how to optimize your off the tee especially. I think that&#8217;s one of the reasons why I&#8217;m top 10 in strokes getting off the tee is because I know exactly what club I&#8217;m hitting and I know he tells me why I should hit it. And usually it&#8217;s driver almost every time, especially the way I hit driver. But a lot of times you might say I need to lay up to 160 here because there&#8217;s a bunker on the right at 285. But based on his little program that he&#8217;s got, he&#8217;d say look, you hit driver, you aim it at this tree and you hit it every single day, no matter what, and I&#8217;ve noticed that it&#8217;s just freed me up and led to a lot more opportunities. Now, if I could just hit it closer to the hole. He can&#8217;t really fix that unless I start hitting a little bit better. But I do think everybody&#8217;s important. Everybody&#8217;s different. Some guys need every little thing detailed. You know, look at like a guy like Matt Fitzpatrick who&#8217;s got you know, he&#8217;s got his little notebook. I&#8217;ve seen it firsthand. He&#8217;s writing down notes every shot he hits and it&#8217;s like that&#8217;s different. You know, that&#8217;s something I don&#8217;t know if I could ever do that. I don&#8217;t know if I&#8217;m disciplined enough to do it, but you know, I used to do something similar in practice and I think I&#8217;m going to incorporate that in practice now just to kind of make sure what I&#8217;m working on is working. But you know, I&#8217;m kind of an easygoing, Like I&#8217;m just kind of getting out there and feeling it and trusting the people around me to tell me what to do. But you know, now that I&#8217;ve had so much downtime I&#8217;ve been looking a lot more into my stats and where I can improve. And I think you know I&#8217;m even doing a club fitting in two weeks with a guy, scott Felix, in Memphis, tennessee. So he&#8217;s just a club fitter that I&#8217;m just going to go in and say let&#8217;s make sure my arms are working and, you know, maybe adjust some lies and loss. And you know, never been to him before so kind of an unbiased just see where we are and see if we can improve. You know, again I hit the. I said don&#8217;t touch driver, don&#8217;t worry. I did tell him that. But I said look, let&#8217;s you know if we need to just swap out the four and the five iron for a different, you know a different style. You know they make. You know Tileless makes all kind of clubs now. But you know, whatever we have to do, let&#8217;s do it and get it settled before the start of this fall season, so then I can have confidence. So I&#8217;m looking forward to that. And just you know I recommend everybody do that, I think every, especially any anybody buying clubs. You know we&#8217;re lucky to not have to do that. But getting that sitting, I&#8217;ve never really had one. Really, to be honest with you, I haven&#8217;t. I&#8217;ve been out to TPI now two or three times so I guess technically that is a club fitting. But usually when I go I&#8217;ve kind of already had my clubs. You know I&#8217;ve played the same clubs for five years now. You know the AP2s and now the T100s. They&#8217;re all pretty similar but I&#8217;ve played the same stuff almost for five years. So you know we&#8217;ll get stuff figured out and hopefully by Sanderson we&#8217;ll be ready to play. 0:33:40 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroSo now that you&#8217;re, you know, through your second year on the tour, what you know. What were some of the differences this year and what are you looking forward to next year, now that you&#8217;re not you know you&#8217;re not the rookie out there anymore, you&#8217;re, you&#8217;ve been out there, you know the ropes, you know a lot of the courses. Now what are some of the advantages of now being out there a few times, as opposed to the first year you went out there? 0:34:03 &#8211; Hayden BuckleyYeah, you know I think I don&#8217;t have to get out there and play the Monday Pro-Am every week. And you know, a lot of times as a rookie what people don&#8217;t understand is you don&#8217;t get to play the Wednesday Pro-Am. You know usually it&#8217;s limited to. You know it&#8217;s all based off FedEx the last year and you know as a rookie you&#8217;re down at the bottom. So you know Wednesdays were pretty much just practice days my whole year until you know I had a pretty good start to my rookie year so I got in some Pro-Am&#8217;s. But you know Monday and Tuesday are kind of your days to see the golf course physically and play it. And you think about travel. If you&#8217;re playing on Sunday you&#8217;re flying out Sunday night, maybe Monday morning you&#8217;re tired. You know I took several Mondays off last year and had to play 18 holes on Tuesday because I wasn&#8217;t in the Pro-Am and or two years ago, my rookie year. So even last year I saw you know I&#8217;m in the Pro-Am almost every week. You know Mondays I&#8217;m taking off a lot more. Maybe I&#8217;ll go hit a few putts or I&#8217;ll go to the gym. You know Tuesday&#8217;s kind of my day to play nine holes. That was kind of my rule which you know I thought I was doing everything I could not to get hurt. You know, unfortunately I still did. But you know I said I&#8217;m never playing more than nine holes in a day and I&#8217;m still keeping that this year. I&#8217;m not going to play more than nine. You know, maybe a rare circumstance there&#8217;s a new tournament this year in Mexico. I think we&#8217;re going to Cabo instead of MyCova. You know I might have to play 18 holes if there&#8217;s bad weather. You know whatever it may be, but nine holes a day take a lot more Mondays off. You know Pro-Am&#8217;s on Wednesday. You know most of the courses now. I think I even saw that last year. I&#8217;ve seen some of these courses once. You know I remember the pin locations. I remember places that I hit it. You know I&#8217;ll have even more of that this year. You know you can imagine Sanderson Farms. I&#8217;ve played the course a million times now but I have a lot of memories from the tournament as well, where I don&#8217;t have to go out there Monday, tuesday and Wednesday and play nine or 18 holes. I can go practice, I can relax, I can go to the gym, really take care of my body a lot more now and, you know, play a little less golf. But I think something I&#8217;m looking forward to would be you know, really I feel like I&#8217;ve really kind of put my mark in the tour now, where I feel comfortable. You know you&#8217;re rookie here, you&#8217;re not sure what&#8217;s going on. You tell yourself I belong out here, but you got to prove it. It doesn&#8217;t matter if you&#8217;re an all-American college or you&#8217;re number one in the world in college, you&#8217;re amateur. I don&#8217;t care if you won this tournament. You got to go out there and prove it, and most of the top guys do, but some don&#8217;t. And so the first year&#8217;s tough. That second year you&#8217;re kind of going all right. I got to have a better year than last year because I was a rookie last year. You know you got to do better and I saw that. And so now, on my third year, I really feel like, well, I guess the end of my second year into the third year. I really feel like it&#8217;s time to really submit myself. As you know, this is my job. I&#8217;m one of the best ball strikers out here. I&#8217;m going to have that confidence forever and it&#8217;s time to go compete in tournaments and not just be. You know I get funny tweets every once in a while. That&#8217;s like, or whatever you call them now post. 0:37:24 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroX, I don&#8217;t know what they call it. 0:37:25 &#8211; Hayden BuckleyBut I&#8217;ll get some stuff now where it&#8217;s like I don&#8217;t even know who you are, like I&#8217;m tired of watching you on TV and you know funny stuff Like that doesn&#8217;t bother me at all, but you know it&#8217;s time to kind of go out there and really compete more. I think you know, when I show up each week, I know now that I&#8217;m pretty much one good swing away from having a chance to win a golf tournament. And you know, those first two years, even last year, there was tough moments and I think everybody goes through it. But you know I think we&#8217;re really turned to page. You know, after this injury, I think more focus is on the body getting stronger, getting back to, you know, 18STRONG, and I really think I&#8217;m going to go, I&#8217;m going to go to the next level physically with my body. I know that. I know that kind of the same feeling I had out of college and you know I think it&#8217;s going to result in a lot of good golf. 0:38:23 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroI want to take just a second to thank our new partner, which I&#8217;m really excited to announce is First Form. First Form is a company that is here in St Louis, based in St Louis. It&#8217;sa nutritional company that is doing incredible things in the world of nutrition, and one of the reasons that we decided to partner with First Form is obviously we&#8217;re very impressed with their dedication to their products and the quality of their products. It really is a dedication to them and them helping their customers get real results Aside from just the products. We got a chance to go and actually visit the facility again here in St Louis and really walk the halls of the corporate offices, but we got to see the manufacturing plan or the warehouse, and it is a place where they&#8217;re packaging supplements and shipping them out. It&#8217;s a culture, it&#8217;s a community and you can see that amongst the employees. You can see that their culture and their core values that are not just pieces of art on their wall. They&#8217;re actually letting them there and they&#8217;re helping to expand those into the community and really that&#8217;s why we partner with First Form. Obviously, their products are incredible. Otherwise we wouldn&#8217;t suggest them either. We use them on a regular basis. So you&#8217;re going to be hearing a lot more about their products and what they can do for your fitness, what they can do for your golf game. The protein powders, the multivitamins, the protein sticks, the hydration packets all of those products we&#8217;re going to highlight in future episodes. But we just wanted to really celebrate our new partnership with First Form. You can go to their website, firstformcom forward slash 18STRONG, and we&#8217;re going to be doing a giveaway every single month with anybody that buys through that link. So go to firstformcom that&#8217;s P-H-O-R-M dot com forward slash 18STRONG. That&#8217;ll take you directly to their website and you can check their whole suite of products, including some of their fitness apparel and anything that&#8217;s purchased over there. You&#8217;re going to be enrolled into our list for our giveaway. So you had you know, speaking of going from rookie year to your second year and starting to even have people kind of recognize you a lot more, getting some funny tweets and stuff like that. You had a pretty special moment this year that really got the name Hayden Buckley out there. I&#8217;ve actually got a little prop here in the office. I don&#8217;t know if you can see that. 0:40:45 &#8211; Hayden BuckleyOh, I did that. It&#8217;s a little. 0:40:47 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroThe whole in one on the Island Green at TPC Sawgrass. Tell me about that whole moment, tell me how crazy that was. Our buddy TJ was there to actually see it in person. I mean it was it was nuts and you were all over the news, you were on ESPN, you were everywhere that week. So tell me about that week, but specifically that moment. 0:41:13 &#8211; Hayden BuckleyIt&#8217;s funny. I actually had a friend of mine send me a picture of it on the TV at a bar last night. I guess it just popped up randomly as a highlight. You know it was. It was an early round. You know, I think I was third off, maybe on the back nine to start, which I mean the back nine out there is pretty brutal. It&#8217;s not really where you want to start in the morning. But it was calm. It was kind of cloudy, you know. I think it must have been somewhat cold if I was wearing a jacket. But you know I had a decent start, I was playing solid and I get up to 17. I think I may be three putted. I feel like I could have three putted for par on 16 or made par and I wasn&#8217;t very happy. Well, again, you know, not super happy walking off that 16 pole because that&#8217;s kind of a easier birdie on that side. And uh, you know, obviously that tournament&#8217;s huge. You want to play well and I walk up to 17. It&#8217;s a little front right pin. I want to say I watched I can&#8217;t remember who hit before me, but I watched two different shots and I said you know what? I think I need to just hold this ball. Maybe the wind was off the right and I just need to hold this little pitch and wedge. I think it was 132 to the hole. I need to hold this pitch and wedge just right at the middle of the green. I don&#8217;t even care where it goes, just give me on the green, give me a putt. You know I hit it in. When I first hit it I thought I hit it a little hard. You know, a pitch and wedge is usually 140. So you don&#8217;t really want to go on the back of that green and have that tough putt down the hill. And you know I watched it land and I thought, you know, maybe it&#8217;ll kind of trickle back down and it was softer. I can&#8217;t remember if it rained one day. It rained, but I think it was softer out there. So it kind of spun back a little bit. And I&#8217;m watching it the guy you can watch the video. The guys are kind of walking. You know most guys are walking to the, to the green, and I&#8217;m kind of peeking between them and you know it&#8217;s looking pretty good and it disappeared and I honestly didn&#8217;t know if it went in or not. It was kind of hard to tell, but I just assumed it did and I went nuts. You know, I really kind of forgot about everything that was. I don&#8217;t really care what&#8217;s proper in golf. You know, it&#8217;s like you make a hole in one on 17,. You should jump in the lake. I thought about it. Maybe it feel it was warmer. But you know, I really thought, man, this is like this, is it? This is like a dream and I think it&#8217;s payback for if you pull up. I had a tweet somewhere at Phoenix that year on. You know, 16 is pretty chaotic at Phoenix. I hit one about two feet and missed it and I&#8217;ve never felt so much pain. I actually had a longer putt coming back and I just went over and tapped it in. Luckily it went in for par. But maybe it&#8217;s a little payback from you know, or a little redemption from that kind of embarrassing two-footer I missed. But no, it was pretty incredible and I think the best part about it was I got it up on 18, hit it right down the middle. You know, I couldn&#8217;t feel my arms, I was still going nuts. There was only about 50 people there. It was kind of funny. I got a funny story about that. But I get up on 18 and hit it down the middle, hit it to like 20 feet, make the putt for birdie and I&#8217;m thinking, wow, that&#8217;s got to be 300 through 17 and 18. It&#8217;s got to be maybe a record and I think it was probably tied, you know, probably close to a record whatever. And then I make the turn to one. I hit it to five feet and make birdie and I&#8217;m like man, I&#8217;m about to win this tournament and we won&#8217;t talk about what it. We won&#8217;t talk about what happened after. And honestly, people you know a lot of people ask me, you know, did you get too excited or what? And I said no, you know, I made two birdies after. You know, I had about a 10 footer on number two for birdie. I missed, and then the rest of the course just kind of beat me up. I hit a couple of good shots. They got in some bad places, made some bogies and then, sure enough, I&#8217;m there on Friday and I still shot, you know, even par one under. I can&#8217;t remember what I shot on Thursday, but all of a sudden I&#8217;m just playing a new round on Friday and it&#8217;s like there&#8217;s a missed cut, you know. And that&#8217;s again going back to some of the tough rounds I had, and but that moment again you mean my wife actually joked about it we said you know what, I guess we&#8217;ll take a one on 17 with a missed cut over, you know, maybe making the cut and finishing 40th, you know we&#8217;ll just, we&#8217;ll take. I didn&#8217;t have my game, wasn&#8217;t there to compete that week. Obviously it looked like I was going to win. But you know the way I played the rest of the way. I just didn&#8217;t have it that week and it&#8217;s part of it. But a funny story is I was in dining on Thursday afternoon and you know this is nine o&#8217;clock in the morning when I played. So there was only probably 50 people. You&#8217;ve seen the video. There&#8217;s not that many people. They were all kind of behind the tee box, nobody was on the hill, nobody was in the grandstands. Yet John Rom comes up to me where he&#8217;d been lunch. He sits down and he goes hey, man, nice, one on 17. I said Thanks, man. You know he&#8217;s been really, really nice to me over the last two years. And he looks at me and he says he says you know, I was on the front line somewhere and when I heard it, you know I thought somebody just made birdie. It wasn&#8217;t very loud. I just said Thanks, appreciate it. But I said yeah, it&#8217;s probably because there was 50 people on there. You know, it&#8217;s just. I mean, you know, our buddy, tj, my wife, a couple of our friends were there. I mean, besides that there wasn&#8217;t a lot of people there and it was kind of to me it felt loud. I couldn&#8217;t hear anything because I was just blacked out. But he kind of laughed about it. He said yeah, it wasn&#8217;t as loud as I thought it would be for a whole in one. 0:46:35 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroI said Thanks, john, appreciate it. 0:46:37 &#8211; Hayden BuckleyBut that was no. He took a little jab at me but you know it&#8217;s funny. I did an interview after the round and they brought up my scorecard and did the thing and I said, yeah, let&#8217;s just ignore this. Back nine here and you know, like the five over on the back let&#8217;s ignore that, but the one was nice. So you know, I&#8217;ll remember it forever. It was. It was, I think when I show back up there next year I&#8217;m looking for another one. You know I&#8217;m looking because that feeling was probably the best I felt all year. Better than Sony, better than the fifth that Hilton had, better than Japan. I mean, it was the best feeling I&#8217;ve had all year. It was incredible. 0:47:14 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroI can&#8217;t imagine. I remember watching it over and over and over again on all the replays and just thinking like I mean as a young kid, a golfer, like there&#8217;s not many things that are more iconic than that green to be able to go out and get a whole in one on that. And people go. You know just the world kind of. I mean literally went crazy viral everywhere. So and we&#8217;re going to see it for the rest of time. Right Like that, that highlight will be will be there all the time. Funny story. I was there on Sunday with TJ and we were sitting in the grandstand and we got to see I think it was maybe Smalley they got a hole in one on Sunday. 0:47:52 &#8211; Hayden BuckleySmalley, I think he did yeah. 0:47:54 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroSo first of all, tj saw two hole in ones, you know, with his eyes on that hole that weekend, which was nuts. But when Smalley hit his, it bounced and just hopped in the cup and it was like quiet because nobody we were like where&#8217;d that go? Like couldn&#8217;t tell if it went in the water. And then it was like a slow clap that you know. I think that actually went in the hole. But as that was happening, so that Sunday you know the grandstands are full now and I remember sitting there thinking about you, thinking like hitting a shot in front of all of these people, like just thinking about how nervous I would be. I got to play at the next day and there was nobody watching and I dunked mine in the water, but still like nervous you know like and it&#8217;s like I can&#8217;t imagine what&#8217;s it been like for you now that you&#8217;ve been on these big stages? You&#8217;ve been able to play, like at Phoenix 16th hole, you know some of these big, bigger tournaments, the US Open, and you&#8217;ve had some crowds around you. Now you&#8217;ve played in some, some pairings where you&#8217;ve got people following. Does that affect you at all? Are you able to kind of zone out and just do your thing? 0:48:55 &#8211; Hayden BuckleyYeah, it&#8217;s funny, I think actually the smaller crowds are almost worse. You know, I think you know I had, you know I probably had 30 or 40 people come out at Memphis for the playoff event and it&#8217;s almost like you can see everybody that&#8217;s there, especially when you know them. You know it&#8217;s almost feeling I&#8217;m thinking back to Cornfury. You got like three or four people out there, sometimes literally sometimes there&#8217;s just my wife out there and it&#8217;s like I almost feel worse when I&#8217;m by myself playing and there&#8217;s no one out there than I do. You know, walking up to, I&#8217;ll never forget Phoenix. Two years ago, my rookie year, I was the last man in the field at you know Waste Management and I get paired with Ricky and John Rom because you know Web Simpson pulled out or something and it was you just take their play. You know when the T-Towns come out Tuesday, if anybody pulls out, you&#8217;re taking their place, if you&#8217;re the first alternate. So I show up on that T-Box and I mean you can&#8217;t see the, you can&#8217;t see grass going, you can only see the fairway going down the whole first hole and you know, as a rookie, I&#8217;m sitting there going. This is going to be a great experience, obviously, and you know I was nervous for the first few holes, but you get settled into it and then you have more experiences like that. The US Open on Saturday I&#8217;m in the second to last group with John Rom again, and you know, again I can&#8217;t see any grass anywhere. I&#8217;ll never forget walking up 18 and like pitch black, dark we teed off at like four o&#8217;clock in the afternoon for some reason and walking up that tee in Boston or that green and you can&#8217;t see anything. I couldn&#8217;t find my wife I couldn&#8217;t find. You know, you couldn&#8217;t see anything. It&#8217;s just almost like a blur, and I think that&#8217;s a good thing for me now, as I see more of a blur than I do. Wow, this is such a big crowd. To me it&#8217;s like man, it&#8217;s kind of like a I hate to say a backboard, but it&#8217;s almost like there&#8217;s just a backboard around you. It almost frames it for you a little bit better. You know, I&#8217;ve always said grandstands people almost benefit us more as pros than you know. Next week I go to Tupelo, my hometown, and go play some golf and it&#8217;s a little bit harder to frame some of your shots because you&#8217;re not aiming at grandstands or you&#8217;re not. You know I had a shot of Memphis that actually hit a guy. You know I was in the trees right on 17 and I was trying to snap, hook one around the trees and kind of bring it into the green and caught a flyer and you know, out of rough balls don&#8217;t turn and hit a guy in the shin and kicked it in the fringe. I mean 30 yards left onto the fringe and I two putted for par and I&#8217;m sitting there going. You know, if this was a normal day, that ball is hitting the cart path, it&#8217;s bouncing probably out of bounds into a house and so there&#8217;s a lot of advantages, I think, to play and turn them into golf and having these crowds and I think maybe that&#8217;s why I enjoy it so much. I think you know you&#8217;re still going to feel nerves. I mean there&#8217;s no doubt you know Sanderson Farms. I don&#8217;t think there will be 100,000 people on the first tee, but you know you get a big crowd, especially for Mississippi guys and you know a lot of it. When they&#8217;re rooting for you really helps. You know a lot of the times they&#8217;re, you know probably there for you know John or somebody else, and that&#8217;s fine too. But I think you get a lot of support. You know you get a lot of guys that. You know I had a kid. Actually the other day me and my wife were vacationing in Amelia Island, florida, a little north of Jacksonville, played golf, got done. One of the bad guys said hey, man, just wanted to say like I was there on 17 at Sawgrass. I was like I just walked up, we weren&#8217;t even looking, we don&#8217;t know who you are. Larry said that to my face. He said we didn&#8217;t know who you were, but we walked up to 17,. You made it and it was the best experience of my life and I was like hey, thanks, man, I appreciate it. But again, you know it&#8217;s. There&#8217;s a lot of people out there that really care about golf. I saw that a lot in Japan. You should. The crowds in Japan were ridiculous. I mean it was. They didn&#8217;t care who you were, they were lined up on every fairway and they clapped for bogies. You know it&#8217;s like you make a bogey, they&#8217;re clapping for you. So I&#8217;ve had a lot of good experiences with big crowds, you know, with people. You know you get heckled a lot too right, you&#8217;re going to get some, some people that are probably gambling on you that week and if you&#8217;re not playing well, they&#8217;re not happy, and I&#8217;ve had plenty of that. But I do think seeing these bigger crowds it&#8217;s you&#8217;re not motivation to want to play good, but it&#8217;s one of those. Like you know, we are entertainers. In a sense we have a product to put out, but it&#8217;s. It&#8217;s pretty fun here in Roars when you make putts and you get Roars and you know it&#8217;s a different feeling than you get when you&#8217;re coming up in college and cornfairy and amateur golf where there&#8217;s not really anybody watching you. So it&#8217;s, you know, a part of the big stage. I think it&#8217;s every sport right, high school football, you got, you know, 2000 people in the stands, and then you get to college it&#8217;s 50, and then you get in the pros even more, everything kind of graduates into bigger crowds and bigger pressure. And I just think from my experience now I kind of thrive off that a little bit more, where you know maybe some tournaments that are smaller I&#8217;m not getting, you know, I have to watch myself to not, you know, fall into kind of that hole of like I&#8217;m not excited to play this tournament because there&#8217;s not 20,000 people out here, like who cares, you know, like even like Sawgrass on 17,. Like there&#8217;s 40 people out here but let&#8217;s make a hole in one. You know who cares, so that I think it&#8217;s balancing that and really, you know using the crowds as an advantage instead of thinking I hope I don&#8217;t mess up. You know, I think a rookie year. I&#8217;m sitting there going. There&#8217;s so many people watching me, I hope I don&#8217;t mess up the bottom line. There&#8217;s TV cameras watching you and there&#8217;s millions of people watching. So you know, at the end of the day, everybody&#8217;s going to see what you do. So you just got to own what you do. And you know I learned that quick at Phoenix when I missed a two footer. I went viral for missing a two foot putt and you should read the comment. You can still look at the tweet and read the comments. I got some stuff for it, but you know I shot I think I shot a buggy free 69 on Saturday in Phoenix. So, like I don&#8217;t care, I mean I played a great round of golf, I just missed a putt at the wrong time. So, yeah, I&#8217;ve enjoyed the experience of getting to. You know, play in front of crowds and most of the time it&#8217;s very positive and enjoyable experience. 0:55:10 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroSo now that you&#8217;re, I think you finished up at number 60 on the FedEx Cup. So moving into next year&#8217;s season you mentioned, obviously some things have changed with the schedule. What impact does that have on you where you&#8217;re sitting? And then also, kind of, what are some of your expectations that you&#8217;re putting on yourself for next year? 0:55:30 &#8211; Hayden BuckleyYeah, you know, I think if you look at the new, the fall series they&#8217;re calling it now like the top 50 guys are kind of, you know, knocked out of the FedEx Cup. They&#8217;re locked into the signature events next year and you know that was the goal, obviously and didn&#8217;t work out. But now we have something, really all that. You know I&#8217;ve got my card for next year. Making it to playoffs guarantees that I&#8217;m in the players championship, got my full card. You know every event that&#8217;s not a signature event. So I&#8217;ve got a full schedule. It&#8217;s great. But I do have, you know, the top 10. Top 10 on the FedEx at the end of this fall, which you know I&#8217;m number 10, you would call it being number 60. That 50 through 60, those guys are guaranteed to play. I believe it&#8217;s Pebble Beach and Tigers event at Riviera, I think, those two signature events. So that&#8217;s kind of what you&#8217;re playing for. Otherwise your only way getting into that is playing well, like the three weeks before. So they kind of made it to where they call it like the, the swing five, I think they call it. You know where you play, maybe Sony open, american Express and what&#8217;s the other one, torrey Pines, and then the top five guys from those three events qualify into, just from those three. It doesn&#8217;t matter where you&#8217;re on the FedEx, the top three guys from those five events that aren&#8217;t in Pebble get in Pebble. So that&#8217;s kind of how they&#8217;re, you know they&#8217;re, they&#8217;re playing in the schedule to be like the hottest players at the time. Get these signature events. You know the top 50 guys have nothing to worry about. So at least, if anything, this fall I&#8217;m playing for. You know, obviously I&#8217;m just playing to gain confidence, to play well. I&#8217;ve been hurt for three months, kind of get back into flow, but also playing for that top 10. Because I&#8217;d like to. You know pebble beaches of elevated event this year and you know Riviera is Riviera, I love Riviera so much. Play to USM there, want to get back there, and also an elevated event. So I&#8217;m playing for those two events pretty much this fall. You know, obviously whatever happens I want to be in those. If not, then I&#8217;ll start my season at the Sony, you know, and again just start back from zero and and hopefully have another experience like Sony Last year, maybe a little better. But you know, just, I&#8217;m going to play a lot, I&#8217;m going to play as much as I can, obviously, with, you know, kind of built in off weeks now with these elevated events. If you&#8217;re not in them, you&#8217;re going to take those weeks off. So kind of feels like a rookie year again where I&#8217;m not getting in currently. You know, we&#8217;ll, we&#8217;ll, obviously we can answer this again in the fall, but I&#8217;m currently not getting in. There&#8217;s not guaranteed that I&#8217;m in the elevated events, all of them. And so you know I&#8217;m going to approach it kind of like rookie year. I&#8217;m going to play when I can, take advantage when I can and you know, wherever it takes me. I&#8217;ll be back in Memphis next year and and have a have a better chance of getting to Eastlake than I did this year. 0:58:33 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroWell we&#8217;re. We&#8217;re expecting it on on our end for sure. You know the 18STRONG crew is pulling for Buck and we&#8217;re looking forward to seeing some more fireworks this year from your game. That&#8217;s definite. I want to finish up just a couple of little fun questions for you, a little different than the ones we normally do, because we&#8217;ve asked you those on previous podcasts. But is there any any kind of a book or anything that you&#8217;ve been reading lately, anything golf related, non golf related, that you would recommend to the 18STRONG audience? 0:59:02 &#8211; Hayden BuckleyOh gosh. 0:59:02 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroI haven&#8217;t read a book in a while. 0:59:04 &#8211; Hayden BuckleyJeff, I need to. I really, I actually really need to meet my wife we&#8217;re talking about the other day, what&#8217;s that? There is one book that I do I will. From a golf perspective, every shot counts. Now I read that in college. I know I was recommended to read it. I think I need to reread it. It&#8217;s very it&#8217;s. It&#8217;s a pretty influential book, just from a golf world. It&#8217;s nothing else, but it&#8217;s going to teach you some things about you know golf statistics and all that stuff. So I I love that book. I can&#8217;t remember the author, but great, great book. 0:59:34 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroWhat are you and your bride watching these days? On Netflix or one of the other streaming services? 0:59:40 &#8211; Hayden BuckleyWe&#8217;re, we&#8217;re big. You know we&#8217;ve been watching Bravo, the channel Bravo, so Below Deck, below Deck is one of our favorites. It&#8217;s kind of a little reality. It&#8217;s like chartering yachts, you know. It&#8217;s like their reality show and it&#8217;s. We&#8217;ve been hooked on that pretty hard. And you know I&#8217;ve watched Lincoln Lawyer was probably. I just came out with a new season. That was one of my favorite. I watched the first season. It just came out with season two, I believe. So I finished that in about a day and a half. My wife was gone for the weekend two weeks ago and I just sat on the couch watch football and Lincoln Lawyer, so really, enjoyable time. 1:00:18 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroWhat&#8217;s is there? A course like a bucket list course that you have on your radar, that you want to go play, that you haven&#8217;t been able to play yet? 1:00:27 &#8211; Hayden BuckleyYou know somebody mentioned to me there, dave Pine Valley. That&#8217;s always been one that you know, I think. I know I&#8217;ve heard it so much about it, I&#8217;ve seen pictures, and you know Cyprus is another one that you know. Actually my putting coach said he was playing it next week or in a few weeks. He said he&#8217;s going out there to do a little five course thing with a buddy of his and so I&#8217;m pretty jealous of that. But those two are those two are up there. 1:00:56 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroWhat is, or has there been, a kind of significant purchase that you&#8217;ve made? You know you&#8217;ve had a chance to make a few bucks. Now what has Hayden Buckley kind of spent maybe a little more on than he would have in the past? 1:01:09 &#8211; Hayden BuckleyOh gosh, let&#8217;s, let&#8217;s go with, let&#8217;s go with a home. 1:01:13 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroHow about that? 1:01:14 &#8211; Hayden BuckleyA house. Well, I won&#8217;t disclose where it is, but there, yeah, a house purchase is definitely a big, a lot bigger of a purchase than I ever thought it would be. There&#8217;s a lot more to it. You know, I&#8217;ve enjoyed that process, that home buying process. You live in a condo or an apartment your whole life, you know, since college. Really, it&#8217;s pretty fun to finally, you know, get close to moving into the home. But the whole process of buying one and everything that comes after is it&#8217;s been fun, but it&#8217;s there&#8217;s a lot of work behind the scenes. But you know, again, I&#8217;ve been hurt for a few months. I&#8217;ve been able to, I&#8217;ve been able to do a lot of work on that. 1:01:52 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroWhat&#8217;s the worst shot you hit last year? 1:01:55 &#8211; Hayden BuckleyNo, gosh. I mean there&#8217;s no doubt it was the two footer on at Phoenix number 16. It&#8217;s like it&#8217;s based on the comments. I think everybody in the world could have made it. So you know little, do they know? I couldn&#8217;t feel my arms when I got up there. I was so excited. You know I was like this is I buried it the day before too, but that was awful. 1:02:15 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroThen you got your redemption on 17 at Sawgrass, so it&#8217;s all good. 1:02:19 &#8211; Hayden BuckleyThat&#8217;s right. 1:02:19 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroThat&#8217;s right. All right, brother. Well, I appreciate you coming on. Look forward to this upcoming season. I know it&#8217;s going to be a big one. You know the crews behind you and we&#8217;re going to see you at East Lake this next year. Thanks for coming on, brother. 1:02:32 &#8211; Hayden BuckleyI appreciate you having me. I look forward to coming back on soon. Sounds good. 1:02:39 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroThanks for joining us this week on the 18STRONG Podcast with Hayden Buckley. If you want any more information or any of the links from this episode, just go to 18strongcom. This is episode number 353 and you can find all the information on Hayden over there. Don&#8217;t forget to check out Link Soul and first form, our partners for this episode. Train hard, practice smart and play better golf. Transcribed by https://podium.page

Guest: Jake Hutt: Golf Instructor, Content Creator, Co-Founder at DryveboxHost: Jeff PelizzaroEpisode Number: 352Podcast: The 18STRONG PodcastPartners: Linksoul, 1stPhorm Summary Prepare to be inspired as we deep-dive into the dynamic world of golf innovation with none other than Jake Hut, the co-founder of Dryvebox. This episode is a gold mine of insights, taking you from Jake&#8217;s humble beginnings as a golf instructor to his incredible journey as a successful entrepreneur. Alongside, you&#8217;ll uncover the secret sauce behind his unique teaching style, enriching philosophies, and the revolutionary concept behind Dryvebox &#8211; a portable driving range equipped with Trackman. Get ready to fuel your passion for golf as we peel back the layers on Dryvebox&#8217;s groundbreaking approach. With Dryvebox, golfers gain effortless access to comprehensive stats and data, completely skipping the need to check into a traditional golf club. Not just that, Jake takes us through the rental process, the strategic partnerships Dryvebox is forming with golf courses and the creative process that makes his content truly one-of-a-kind. We&#8217;ve also got a special treat for all you beginners and seasoned golfers out there. Jake shares his personal tips and reveals common mistakes golfers make on their journey. Also, discover the influence of other sports on golf swing and how different athletes can adapt their body mechanics to improve their golf performance. Plus, you won’t want to miss the part where Jake shares about his journey to becoming a golf celebrity. So come along, this episode promises to be a roller-coaster ride of learning, growth, and entertainment. Main Topics (0:00:04) &#8211; Starting a Portable Driving Range FranchiseCo-founder Jake Hutt discusses Dryvebox, content creation, teaching style, golf improvement, and Drivebox&#8217;s uses and market. (0:12:39) &#8211; Full Membership Benefits and Content CreationDryvebox provides an alternative to traditional driving ranges and golf clubs, allowing golfers to access stats and data, rent courses, and create content. (0:19:51) &#8211; Becoming a Golf CelebrityJake Hutt shares his journey from golf instructor to entrepreneur, discussing successful habits, learning from failure, and Dryvebox, an alternative to traditional driving ranges. (0:25:11) &#8211; Finding Inspiration and Simplifying ConceptsJake Hutt draws inspiration from various sources to simplify complex concepts, and Dryvebox provides an alternative to traditional golfing. (0:32:49) &#8211; Golfers&#8217; Common Mistakes and TipsWe discuss golfers&#8217; challenges, Dryvebox&#8217;s help, remembering techniques with melody and word, course environment&#8217;s effect on thinking, and thank Live Pure partners. (0:37:03) &#8211; Golf Path and Face ImportanceUnderstanding path and face to improve golf game, trusting the process and being aware of small changes for unexpected results. (0:47:23) &#8211; Teaching Golf to BeginnersJake Hutt shares insights on teaching without verbal cues, fatigue, Harvey Penick, intent, path/face, and Dryvebox. (0:54:29) &#8211; Sports&#8217; Influence on the Golf SwingPlayers use different techniques and body mechanics to create speed and power, while trusting the process and putting in the work for unexpected results. (0:59:40) &#8211; Exploring Athlete Types and Golf PerformanceFootball and golf players need different physical abilities, intent and understanding of path and face to hit the ball, and Jake Hutt&#8217;s experience teaching without verbal cues. (1:03:26) &#8211; Music, Slang, and Golf Course FavoritesJake Hutt shares his experience of using creative words, slang, and his definition of &#8216;dusty&#8217;, as well as discussing the sickest courses he&#8217;s played this year. Connect with Jake Instagram: @jakehuttgolf Instagram: @Dryvebox Dryvebox Inquiries: www.dryvebox.com Episode Partners: LINKSOUL:&nbsp;For your 20% discount on LINKSOUL gear, go to&nbsp;18strong.com/linksoul&nbsp;or click the logo above. 1st Phorm: Try any of the 1st Phorm products with FREE SHIPPING, go to 1stphorm.com/18strong.com More Cool Stuff to Check Out: To continue the conversation and ask any questions you may have, head over to the&nbsp;18STRONG Movement group on Facebook. 18STRONG Pro Shop (Get your 18STRONG gear!) 18STRONG Resources (All of the cool stuff we recommend: products, books, golf stuff, etc &#8211; and discount codes for the 18STRONG Crew) Want the full episode transcript? (click the &#8220;+&#8221; ????????) Transcript generated by Podium.page Transcript generated by Podium.pageHelp us spread the word by tweeting about us at @podiumdotpage and including us in your shownotes! https://podium.page NOTE: There were 2 speakers identified in this transcript. Podium recommends using &#8220;Find and Replace&#8221; to change the speaker label to the appropriate name. Speaker separation errors can arise when multiple speakers speak simultaneously. 0:00:04 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroThe 18STRONG podcast, episode number 352 with Jake Hutt, golf instructor and co-founder of Dryvebox. What&#8217;s up guys? Welcome back to the 18STRONG podcast, where we are here to help you build a stronger game, and this week I&#8217;m very excited to have our buddy, jake Hutt, from Jake Hutt Golf, on the show again. Jake is not only a prolific content creator and golf instructor that you&#8217;ve probably seen on Instagram or YouTube or one of the social media platforms, but also the co-founder of Dryvebox, which is basically a portable driving range equipped with Trackman all the different stats that you&#8217;re looking at being able to either work with a pro on remote location, add a golf course, do events and Dryvebox is kind of taking off all over the place. They&#8217;re starting to franchise these things. So in this episode we talk with Jake. First of all, just the trials and tribulations of starting a new company and what they&#8217;ve gone through with Dryvebox, the different iterations of the actual mobile unit that they&#8217;re using and how they&#8217;re utilizing it in different ways and learning every day from their people that from their franchisees, from their instructors, on how to utilize these things and what people are loving about them. Then we talk about just Jake&#8217;s content creation. What&#8217;s it like a day in the life of as Jake Hutt. How does he put all of this content together? Where do the ideas come from? What&#8217;s the process that he uses? And then we talk, obviously, a little bit about golf and he works with a ton of golfers still. So he&#8217;s giving instructions and we talk about his teaching style and his philosophies and really going to a lot of different ideas on how do you get better at golf. What are some of the things that he sees and what are the simplest things, the one or two things that he sees that can make the biggest difference in your game. So we&#8217;re going to get into all that with Jake Hutt right after this. Our partners over at Linksoul have been providing us with the best apparel for both on the course and off the course, from polos to t-shirts like the one I have on right now. Everything that they have is meant to be worn from the golf course to wherever you&#8217;re going next, whether that be casual, whether that be to the beach, there&#8217;s all different options over there. So go to 18strongcom slash Linksoul. You&#8217;ll get 20% off of anything in your cart over on Linksoul&#8217;s website. So again, 18strongcom, slash Linksoul for our favorite brand of apparel for anything on the golf course and off. Now let&#8217;s get to this week&#8217;s interview. All right, man. So we got you hanging out in the warehouse, you&#8217;re in dry box, you&#8217;re Lincoln Park saying Fran. So tell us all about, like, what&#8217;s happened since you were on on the show with dry box, because it seems like it&#8217;s just kind of exploded since the last time you not shatted. Oh man I how long ago, was that I was. 0:03:04 &#8211; Jake HuttI meant to look it up it&#8217;s been two years I think I mean, you guys were just starting Okay, so we maybe had like one box. 0:03:12 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroIt was just the one, I believe. 0:03:13 &#8211; Jake HuttOkay, awesome, yeah, we, that was our prototype. What we were doing is we were just experimenting with it. So we&#8217;d hop in it and we&#8217;d literally, like we go give lessons in San Francisco, we&#8217;d pull up to your house, we&#8217;d park on, like you know, the side of the street and bike lanes, people would pop out of their house, we do a lesson, and we&#8217;d bring it down to Stanford and experiment with it with students, just to see how you know, if people liked it, if people were having fun, and you know, just, you know 10 billion different learnings from it. What can we make better? What can we? You know, the screen in the back was still like wires everywhere and there was a you know, a crappy hitting air. It was just it was. It was a super prototype. The ceilings were too low and we&#8217;d stuck like Walmart sightings on the side and all that. And so now I guess, fast forward, whatever we&#8217;ll say, two years, we&#8217;ve got 12 boxes. We just hit go on franchising two days ago. So we&#8217;re out, you know, selling these things. I haven&#8217;t even really made the announcement yet. We&#8217;ve had just the big list of people that are interested. So we&#8217;ve kind of just been calling the people who&#8217;ve been trying to get their hands on one of these for the last two years. We are in what do we have? Four boxes in California. We&#8217;ve got a couple in Utah, salt Lake City. A golf course. Out there is leasing one Tiger Woods&#8217; new course where he just broke ground, I guess, I don&#8217;t know, I don&#8217;t even know how long ago, but we have a box up there where you can go and essentially Trackman has that course all mapped out so you can go out and play it, just you know there. And then Launch and Vero Beach in Florida, texas, and I think by the end of the year we should have five more. And then yeah, and then so yeah, it&#8217;s just, it&#8217;s a franchise now and so it&#8217;s. If you&#8217;re interested, give us a shout. 0:05:08 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroAnd I mean, do you guys have any region restrictions or you guys kind of going all across the US and whoever contacts? 0:05:13 &#8211; Jake Huttyou and then all right. Yep, yeah, it just essentially depends on how many people are in the surrounding area. The more people, the more expensive it is. 0:05:22 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroGotcha Sweet. So, first of all, how do people just email you? They just go on Instagram, send you a direct message. What&#8217;s the best way, yeah? 0:05:32 &#8211; Jake HuttSo if you go to Dryveboxcom there is a franchise section. It&#8217;s super easy to navigate with all the contact information. You just essentially just shoot us an email with the information on it and we contact you and go from there. 0:05:44 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroSo who would you say has been kind of your biggest market, like certain type of golfers, golf courses Is it? Are you still doing a lot of parties and things like that, like what&#8217;s been your most successful thing and really even your most enjoyable piece of it? I? 0:06:00 &#8211; Jake Huttmean it&#8217;s. That&#8217;s a good question. I don&#8217;t know what. The everywhere is a little different. So, like I mean, we&#8217;ve done everything from you know your birthday party to a lesson on the side of the road, which we don&#8217;t do that anymore. We still do the birthday parties and whatnot, but we&#8217;ve also done. We are at the Genesis Invitational last two years will be this year again, whole 14, they do a big build out around the players lounge which is just one of the coolest places to watch golf. It&#8217;s free. You got all the the Genesis cars all lined up, you know beautiful stage and they got the big TV on the side. You go in closest to the pin. What hole is it? Hole? Like 16 is behind you. Like we were this last year. I think Tiger did play in it this last year. He was on the green behind us and a kid made a hole in one with him in the background. It was pretty cool and it&#8217;s just yeah, it&#8217;s just a. It&#8217;s a cool experience. So like we&#8217;ve we&#8217;re at the women&#8217;s us open, I think three years ago. So like you&#8217;ve got people you know hitting golf shots and they&#8217;re watching golf. It&#8217;s like what&#8217;s the one thing you want to do when you&#8217;re watching golf, you want to hit balls, right. So that&#8217;s been fun to like, be. You know, just being able to, to walk around these tournaments and have, have the box there has just been awesome. And then just seeing how people like our, our first guy, our first partner, brandon, who&#8217;s a PGA member in South Carolina he was the first person we gave a box to. He was like our guinea pig and so he&#8217;s been teaching, you know lessons out of that and you know bringing it to bars and everyone does it a little different. You know we&#8217;ve got a guy in Vasalia in central California who you know smaller town but he knows everyone and so he&#8217;s got all these birthday parties lined up and he does club fitting so he&#8217;ll bring it over to your house and you know he&#8217;ll fix all your clubs, fix your line goals, re-grip all your. You know everything while you&#8217;re in there. You know hitting balls, having fun with your buddies, and and then, yeah, you know Florida, they do it a little different Houston, texas, the markets a little different. So everyone&#8217;s just kind of still finding their way figuring out how to. You know how to sell and what&#8217;s fun and what works and what doesn&#8217;t. So still very. We&#8217;re still very young, very new, but it&#8217;s a. It&#8217;s really really cool giving someone, I guess, having a product, having something like that, messing around with it and then expanding, and then seeing how other people, what they come up with and lots of stuff that we, you know, we&#8217;d never thought of, that they&#8217;re doing, they&#8217;re killing it and so it&#8217;s. It&#8217;s super cool. 0:08:24 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroYeah, super versatile and being able to learn from the people that are using it. So what? Obviously new business, right Startup? What have been some of the trials tribulations? Obviously, you said that you started with the first box and you guys have made a ton of adjustments. I mean, I think it was just originally just a regular 18 wheel tractor trailer bed right. 0:08:45 &#8211; Jake HuttIt&#8217;s always been custom, so we had to custom design the space, the slide outs, and that&#8217;s I mean, that&#8217;s our IP essentially is is that you know, we&#8217;ve got solar panels, solar power, on top, so that was something that definitely didn&#8217;t come with with the original one. We found this battery guy who, you know, does all the crazy installation it gets made at the factory, then it gets sent to the guy who does the battery and then it gets shipped off to to the people. And we&#8217;ve had some issues you know, with I mean everything right, everything. Things have gone right, things have gone wrong. Every box is a is a new. You know, it&#8217;s always a new learning experience. There&#8217;s always something that that either, that goes wrong, that didn&#8217;t previously go wrong. We&#8217;ve had, like the manufacturers at at the, the first spot we were getting it made from, they didn&#8217;t tighten the lug nuts on one of the wheels so the wheel would fly in off two hours into like a two week long road trip. So we had to navigate that. That was fun. Literally just freeway tire gone. So that was, that was fun. Stuck on the side of the road for a couple hours. We were, everything was fine, everything was okay. It definitely the we were fine, the trailer was fine, but yeah, that was just like a. You know, we don&#8217;t work with them anymore for a reason, right, right. 0:10:09 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroAnd then you&#8217;re saying you&#8217;re actually at HQ. Which HQ? 0:10:13 &#8211; Jake HuttHQ yeah. 0:10:14 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroAnd you&#8217;ve got a couple of hitting bays there, so do you give a lot of lessons there? Is that primarily where you&#8217;re teaching, or are you at a course as well? 0:10:22 &#8211; Jake HuttYeah, so no course, I was at Stanford for almost seven years and then COVID hit and then I co-founded this company essentially a deal, the founder of the company, he needed a golf guy and so he took a lesson from me and he was going around, you know, taking lessons from people all over looking for a co-founder, kind of like an undercover type deal. You know what I mean. And so apparently I gave him a good enough lesson. He pitched me the idea halfway through and we&#8217;ve just been running with it since. So I&#8217;m here in San Francisco once a week at Lincoln Park and then two days a week I&#8217;m down in Palo Alto where we have a box that essentially just lives as a single hitting bay. So the concept with that is you get a box and you go out, you do all these events with it and when it&#8217;s not being used you can park it and we&#8217;ve got, essentially, you book, and then you get a code and you can essentially use that bay 24 seven. It&#8217;s like you know, if you&#8217;re, you go up, show up with your clubs, type it in and it&#8217;s your hitting bay. You&#8217;ve got the music, you&#8217;ve got the lights, you&#8217;ve got the track man, and I&#8217;m also working on content essentially. So I&#8217;m kind of like trying to make it kind of like a Peloton where you&#8217;ve got because I teach with data, like I like track man, data, path, face, you know what makes the ball fly. Just most people, like a lot of you know young professionals, they come in, they&#8217;re practicing once a week, playing once a week at most, so we&#8217;re not messing around with what their swing looks like. It&#8217;s like oftentimes just a couple of subtle tweaks, couple of subtle changes and I&#8217;m just like you don&#8217;t need me, you need. You just need the data. Once you understand it, you know it may take a few sessions and then here&#8217;s a whole boatload of content that you know here. If you need to change low point, if you need to change face, if you need to change path, if you want to bring your spin rate down, if you want to bring your loft down, your ball flight down, you can. Obviously you can look at it when you&#8217;re in the box, you can bring it home with you and you go and you just get you know mess around with it. So that&#8217;s been really cool, just having that there and that&#8217;s probably 10 minutes away from where I live, so easy for me there. I&#8217;m about an hour south of San Francisco and so, yeah, we&#8217;re still trying to make that product, the self operational product, awesome and great so that, when it&#8217;s not being used, people still you know you can sell this. 0:12:39 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroA full membership, yeah, so I mean, that&#8217;s what so many people you know, I know here in St Louis. I mean, if you don&#8217;t belong to a club, you&#8217;re then going to the local Munee or the driving range, but you don&#8217;t have access to the kind of stats and statistics you know, all the data, all the track stuff. So to have a box just sitting where you can schedule your, your session, you can go code it in, then you can just go pop your well, you don&#8217;t even need your buds because you guys have the music and you go kind of work on your own stuff, that&#8217;s pretty sweet. 0:13:09 &#8211; Jake HuttYeah, and you&#8217;re just like you&#8217;re just in another world, right, there&#8217;s no one else, you don&#8217;t need to hear anyone else hitting beside you, you don&#8217;t need to. You know, check in anywhere. You&#8217;re just like, you can park the thing anywhere and it&#8217;s just. It&#8217;s such a cool vibe because, like I mean, it literally could be in a parking lot, it could be. Again, everyone kind of figures out where that place is. Like there, you know the rent is here. It&#8217;s a little bit more expensive than most places, but, like you&#8217;re, all you need is a, you know, a pretty tiny plot of land. Like you&#8217;re paying. You know with your brick and mortar spot you&#8217;re paying, obviously a lot to break ground. You know bang walls through and you know building all that. That&#8217;s a lot of overhead with this thing. It&#8217;s just you know 500 bucks a month and park it there and then you&#8217;re done. You want to move it around and you know sell whatever, and you can do that too. We do have golf courses that lease it as well. So, like some will lease it for three months, five months, depending on how long the winter is, or sometime it&#8217;s a summer. Pull up, have it, it&#8217;s in and then it&#8217;s out and you don&#8217;t have to build anything. So we&#8217;re learning constantly. You know we get we&#8217;re at a number of different golf courses, in, in, I think we&#8217;re yeah, arizona, Utah. So it&#8217;s it&#8217;s, we&#8217;re all over. There&#8217;s a lot going on, it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s fun. 0:14:27 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroThat&#8217;s sweet. So, talking about content, obviously you know you are a prolific content creator and I&#8217;m always so amazed when I watch your stuff. You know the editing that you do, the music you do all of it. I would love to know what does a day in the life, and you actually did a little bit of a video on this recently. But day in the life of Jay Cut. What does? it look like you know you&#8217;re running a business. You&#8217;re teaching some lessons. You&#8217;re working on your you know, working on dry box. You&#8217;re working on your content. Do you have it pretty structured out and laid out the way you you post it in the video Is it? Is it that regimented? 0:15:03 &#8211; Jake HuttYeah, I mean it&#8217;s it&#8217;s always changing. So, like I mean, I have a calendar with everything on it that needs to get done for that day, but every day is just so different. Like we&#8217;re going, we&#8217;re taking the sense of doing a road show coming up, so I&#8217;ll be on the road for two weeks and so you know we&#8217;ve got. You know that&#8217;s. That&#8217;s like if I&#8217;m out launching a market, you know, like I was just in Vero Beach most recently, which is, you know, flying out there running around with the box filming everything for marketing purposes for them, teaching them how to use it, just getting to know them. And then, you know, so there&#8217;s kind of like life on the road and there&#8217;s life at home where, yeah, it&#8217;s a mixture of of teaching, I mean. So I guess like trying to think like it&#8217;s Tuesday, wednesday, thursday, I&#8217;m teaching, right, and then I&#8217;ll wake up and I&#8217;ll, you know, edit as much as I can. I work with a lot of different brands, so I owe different brands, different videos, and I&#8217;m always trying to integrate whatever brand I&#8217;m working with in the most organic way possible. I just hate ads and you know everyone hates ads, so it&#8217;s that&#8217;s been a really fun challenge for me. Is is learning to partner with these brands and make actual, enjoyable, fun content. That isn&#8217;t, you know, that&#8217;s that&#8217;s still me but also they&#8217;re happy with and that&#8217;s definitely forced me to just to, to learn to make different stuff, like I. I did one like where I was at a restaurant my buddy just opened up as a third restaurant in San Francisco, so it&#8217;s like I want to bring the camera out there and just see, you know, film a bunch of B-roll and see if I can tell a story, see what that looks like. So I&#8217;m always trying to learn and just do different stuff and just see how it turns out and learn from it. I, you know, I like my favorite content to make still is definitely kind of the the swing tip rap song which is, you know, evolved over time as well, With, just you know, more cuts, more arrows, more texts, more moving texts. So it&#8217;s just always everything is always just trying to just one up the thing from before. So that also means it takes longer, it takes more time. So I&#8217;ve got to, you know, make sure that I do have the enough time to create whatever that is and also have time for everything else. So it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s really every day. Yeah, it&#8217;s a mixture of of a ton of editing, and I&#8217;m, you know, also working on outsourcing that. So I&#8217;m planning on having kind of a like no, I don&#8217;t know if I don&#8217;t want to say competition, but it&#8217;s I&#8217;m going to throw out something like here is the song, here is a, you know, a drive full of whatever you know, 20, 20 gigs of footage. Put it together and let&#8217;s see who&#8217;s who&#8217;s is the best, so that I can, you know, maybe do a little bit more. So that&#8217;s kind of like. The next step for me, which is also kind of terrifying, is, like you know, starting to delegate a little bit more so that I don&#8217;t have to do all of it. But I do love the editing process. It is so fun sitting down and like just how do I take all of this and turn it into some cohesive thing? It&#8217;s a yeah, it&#8217;s. It&#8217;s a lot of fun. You&#8217;ve got Dryvebox, which is just. You know, I do a lot of the content, a lot of the videoing for that. We&#8217;ve got lots of people much smarter than myself who are either lawyers or, you know, went to business school. So I&#8217;m learning a ton from them as well on all the calls and all the things they&#8217;re talking about. So much of it&#8217;s over my head, but it&#8217;s really cool to be, to be a part of it and I mean it&#8217;s like. It&#8217;s like going to business school. For me, this is like my business school and I get to, I get to be the golf guy and you know and help however I can. 0:18:53 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroSo I was wondering if you had anybody helping you yet with the video and and you know, editing stuff, because I know that that&#8217;s that&#8217;s kind of what you, what you love doing making the music and that&#8217;s the stuff that I am just terrible with. It takes me forever to do and that&#8217;s why you know we&#8217;ve got Bill behind the camera here and that kind of stuff it&#8217;s like. But you know, I would imagine that that&#8217;s the thing that you really enjoy so much that you don&#8217;t want to give too much of that away, but you have so much on your plate at the same time. 0:19:23 &#8211; Jake HuttI mean, I if I could, if I knew it would turn out exactly the same, like absolutely I&#8217;d have someone else do it all day. Just, I never know how it&#8217;s going to turn out. Like when I&#8217;m looking at it, I&#8217;m like I, you know, I don&#8217;t know. So I&#8217;m also really excited to see, like you know, I might send it in and like everyone else might do a better job than I do. I&#8217;m like great, cool, Like all I have to do now is film and send it to someone else and now that frees up a lot of time on my end. So that&#8217;ll be fun. Yeah, I, as much as I do love it, it is so insanely time consuming. Editing and like it is just, I still do it all on my laptop. I don&#8217;t have a big fancy guy. That may be the next purchase that I need to make before I go blind. But yeah, like deeper, I&#8217;ve gotten into it, is it? Just it takes so much time, so much crazy focus, so you get like lost in that world and the computer screen is like oh my God, is this ever going to end? 0:20:23 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroSo I think we could officially say and you may not believe this yourself, but the rest of us looking from the outside in would say that you&#8217;re kind of officially a celebrity type in the golf world these days. You know, you&#8217;ve just kind of amassed huge followings on Instagram. I was just on your YouTube, about to hit, I think, 100,000 subscribers over there. When you started making some of these videos, did you ever think that you&#8217;d be working with companies like Callaway, shrixon you know all these different big brands, starting a company like Dryvebox? You know, when you were just you know giving lessons, making some cool videos, did you ever think it would be where you are right now? 0:21:02 &#8211; Jake HuttNo, no, not a million years, I did have. I mean, like when I was kind of starting it all out, I was reading a lot, and I was reading a lot of. I bought it. I was really interested in like the habits of what really successful people were doing and so, like Tools of the Titans is a really cool book, like Tim Ferriss and kind of all of those. I was just that&#8217;s kind of like where I started. I was like you know, whatever I do, I&#8217;m going to go. You know I&#8217;m always full in, 10,000 percent committed to whatever that is. And you know, in this case it was like all right, let&#8217;s, you know golf, and but I got a bunch of these books and I kind of studied like the habits of. I was just curious like what do successful people do Like? And I don&#8217;t know if I necessarily tried to copy them, but I did. Just, you know, I think it just exposed to me how, like, how hard people work and how much time they spend. It&#8217;s like your whole life, like you wake up early in the morning and you just work and you just like, you just go and you go and you go and you go and you go and you go. And so that like to me, was just like, okay, like I&#8217;m going to do this, like I this is, I kind of have an understanding of how hard it&#8217;s going to be and I knew it had to. You know I had to. I had to love it, because if you don&#8217;t love it, you&#8217;re just not going to put the time into it. That&#8217;s necessary. And so, like I loved reading about golf, I loved everything about, like when I was going to school. I didn&#8217;t love going to class when I was in college and so it was all like I went, but it&#8217;s like it wasn&#8217;t obsessed with it. And so golf, kind of I knew that I had that obsession similar to hockey, like when I grew up playing hockey I was completely obsessed with and I&#8217;d, you know, I&#8217;d go break into the rink at 10 o&#8217;clock and practice and like that&#8217;s like I knew what the healthy obsession, I knew what that was like. And so I was like I kind of found that in golf. And then I just, you know, just like a day by day thing, like I have so much fun doing whatever it is today, like making like the first videos I made. I just had so much fun doing it and it was just kind of a get through the day and just do it again and just do it again and do it again and just work really hard at it and see what happens. The book that really kind of changed how I look at things was Atomic Habits, james Clear, and I remember reading that when I was early on in my doing my book work for PGA and you gave the the ice cube analogy, right where it&#8217;s like you just take an ice cube, you put it on the table and it just sits there and you look at it, doesn&#8217;t change, doesn&#8217;t change, doesn&#8217;t change and eventually it starts to melt. You don&#8217;t really you don&#8217;t really know when things are going to start to happen, but you just put the work in and you just wait for it. And that&#8217;s kind of like how I looked at everything, which is like if I just work as hard as humanly possible, like at some point the ice cube is going to melt, I&#8217;m having so much fun anyways, I don&#8217;t really care if it. You know, whatever happens happens, and so it&#8217;s really it&#8217;s crazy kind of looking back and I mean I appreciate the sentiment so much. I mean it means a lot. I could just it&#8217;s something you don&#8217;t ever think about, I think, in the back of your head, like you, you try to put in the work that you think it&#8217;ll take to have some sort of success, whatever that is, and then, along the way, you know, just trying to learn as many skills as possible. I&#8217;ve always just been fascinated with just the learning process itself, just what does learning look like, and not being afraid of like being terrible at something, like learning this golf thing. Like grew up playing golf but I started playing really really poorly after starting to, you know, try all these different things, make a swing, look a certain way and like after being really good. You know, at a sport like hockey, where you&#8217;re not the best but you&#8217;re definitely elite, sucking at something is like I think that was probably the best thing that could ever happen to me was like sucking at something and then having to kind of come out on the other side and stick through it and learn something, like as a you know, it&#8217;s kind of. I guess I was, yeah, 25 when I started kind of this journey. I wasn&#8217;t particularly young, but I didn&#8217;t really care and I was like okay if I, if I&#8217;m okay with feeling like a complete failure and looking like an idiot, like I&#8217;m not afraid of anything, so it&#8217;s been fun. Yeah, it&#8217;s been a crazy journey. 0:25:08 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroThat&#8217;s exactly what I Hear. So many people say that our success one would ever like, you know what. I just kind of put my head down, did the thing, did the work and, just you know, kind of trusted the process, and all of a sudden come up for air and I&#8217;m like, oh my gosh, can&#8217;t believe. I&#8217;m, can&#8217;t believe I&#8217;m here, you know right, and I mean like professional golfers, all the, the the collegiate golfers, it&#8217;s like that&#8217;s, that&#8217;s a lesson, just to take it into the the world of golf and and performance. It&#8217;s like sometimes we just have to do that and have the faith and have the trust that I&#8217;m doing the right thing. I got to get up early, I got to do my workouts, I got to go hit the range, I got to go see Jake. I take my lesson, you know, and just put in the work, put in the work, put in the work and then eventually reap the benefits. 0:25:52 &#8211; Jake HuttYeah, absolutely I mean, it&#8217;s a terrifying concept when you&#8217;re in it, like it&#8217;s almost just like For me. I just wanted to mask that, like that, that feeling of you know what am I doing with? Just I&#8217;m just gonna, I&#8217;m just gonna spend all the extra time I can working so I don&#8217;t have time to forget about how terrifying the saw is. 0:26:15 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroWith you when you&#8217;re putting together your content ideas. Is it like Do you sit down, like have structured time to do that, or is some of it like you&#8217;re working with a Student and you kind of figure out oh, they need help with this, or I keep seeing this. Maybe I&#8217;ll make a little piece of content on that. 0:26:31 &#8211; Jake HuttOh, man, I mean, it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s just, it&#8217;s all. I&#8217;m always thinking about, Just different concepts like my like, what&#8217;s what&#8217;s really fun for me? Fastening for me is taking kind of some of the more complex concepts and trying to, you know, dumb it down and make it simple, you know, and then turn it into a song and then make, you know, make the video around that. But it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s. The inspiration comes just from absolutely everywhere, whether it&#8217;s a student, or whether I&#8217;m driving or I I&#8217;m reading. Rick Rubin just came out with a book. I don&#8217;t know how old it is, but it&#8217;s all, it&#8217;s so awesome he&#8217;s, he&#8217;s, he like. He&#8217;s like the pioneer of, like the og, producer of, like hip-hop, you like yeah, like the Beastie Boys and yeah, don&#8217;t you like so? so his book it&#8217;s so. It&#8217;s so fascinating how he talks about like all these you know. Essentially it&#8217;s just all about like I Don&#8217;t know what the books call. It&#8217;s called like the creative something or whatever, but it&#8217;s like how he looks at it, there&#8217;s just so. I&#8217;m kind of like learning and like In, almost like reverse engineering, like different ideas I&#8217;ve had, or like, oh, like I&#8217;ve experienced that before. He just it&#8217;s just so cool. He talks like like last night I was reading an excerpt. He was like something like letting the subconscious mind kind of come out. So he&#8217;s saying like when you&#8217;re driving, sometimes some of the best ideas will come out because your mind, your conscious mind, is on the road, so it kind of allows your subconscious to like work in this you know, mysterious way. So I think it&#8217;s just like the ideas come Everywhere, I think traveling, staying in a hotel, when you&#8217;re by yourself Driving, or sitting by yourself or whatever like it&#8217;s all. It&#8217;s all. There&#8217;s so many different great places that ideas come from. So I&#8217;m always constantly thinking and thinking about what the next thing is going to be, your drawing inspiration from something here or there or wherever I might be well to your point of trying to make things just Simplified from complex. 0:28:24 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroYou know topics and you do such a good job and I find myself like just growing through your, your videos and like first of all, just kind of smiling, laughing at some of your raps, and you know that the tunes and everything and it&#8217;s like. But then, like watching your content, it&#8217;s like you really do like break down some of the things so easily and you take different perspectives. You know like sometimes you&#8217;re in your socks on your hardwood floors and showing you know, different movements and and different forces and it&#8217;s like you know, so many people learn so many different ways and they and I think that&#8217;s why sometimes people will will go to different instructors because they&#8217;ll hear something a little different and it will click with them. And what I love about your stuff is you don&#8217;t do it all the same way, you. You mix it up all the time and sometimes you&#8217;ll say something I&#8217;m like, oh, that&#8217;s, that&#8217;s the feeling, or literally. I was just talking to a golf pro here who was giving lessons in our, our gym and we were talking about how he asked me how the the shaft of the club flexes, and we were. I was talking about how, you know, we thought myself and the client he was working with we&#8217;re talking about, well, it bends like this and he&#8217;s like, no, it bends up and down. Then you had a video talking about not because he was telling this guy like don&#8217;t ever just set your club on the ground, you know, because then you&#8217;re getting really upright and then literally I&#8217;ve been scrolling through, I&#8217;m like I sent it to both of those guys. I&#8217;m like, oh my gosh, jade just had a video about this. So you, you give it such a different perspective and you tackle so many different things. That I think is really really cool. 0:29:53 &#8211; Jake HuttYeah, thank you first off. Yeah, I like there&#8217;s so there&#8217;s so many interesting things like concepts and, yeah, I mean the it&#8217;s. I can&#8217;t remember where I came up with the inspiration for that one, but I think I saw it somewhere and I&#8217;m like, oh my god, like that&#8217;s that makes so much sense. And then, yeah, just trying to make a video that like just engages people and makes it I was talking to someone who, to your like the connecting the dots, to me, that&#8217;s like, if I can be the guy that like just makes it so, just so simple, stupid, like what I&#8217;ve found the feedback I&#8217;ve gotten is, like, you know, you could watch Seven different videos and everyone&#8217;s kind of trying to say the same thing, and then, like my videos just so stupid and simple, like they&#8217;re like, oh, like, now it all makes sense, like I, I, I love being, you know, the, the video that kind of helps Just simplify. It&#8217;s like I want a five-year-old to be able to watch it and be in, like, be able to hum along, do it, but also, have you know, have him or her be able to understand it. And so I think for, like, the older you get, we want to in that, you know, we want to intellectualize everything, which it&#8217;s fun. It&#8217;s fun to think about things, it&#8217;s fun to Really dive deep into something you know it&#8217;s not any good for performance. It&#8217;s terrible for performance. The more you know, almost the worse right. So it&#8217;s like that&#8217;s how my brain thinks. Like I love just like I&#8217;m reading the science of the golf, so I guess I&#8217;ve been reading now for like three years trying to make sense of it. But like all that you know the kinetics of applying force to the handle of a club, and like angular momentum and like what you know, you apply a force, you&#8217;ve got to torque it through, and like all you know, kind of. So it&#8217;s that&#8217;s. That&#8217;s why I&#8217;m definitely not the best golfer, but it&#8217;s fun. That&#8217;s what allows me, you know I&#8217;m I&#8217;m passionate about the teaching aspect though, and I&#8217;m not trying to play a tour, but it allows I think it allows that the simplicity to kind of shine through, which initially, when I was starting with everything, I Couldn&#8217;t believe how hard it was to Really to portray something simple. Like I remember the hitting record. Like you know, the first year I started doing this head of the back of the range press record with no thought, really was like, okay, I&#8217;m just gonna like talk about some golf stuff and shouldn&#8217;t be that hard. I should be able to say something relatively simple and I would, you know, just mumbling over my words for a month and I was like why I really need to, you know, figure out how to communicate. So I started kind of thinking about concepts and I would I&#8217;d you know I&#8217;d be in the shower, kind of going over like how can I erase every word from what I&#8217;m about to say? That doesn&#8217;t need to Be there? And since you turn it in like a short little poem, so that when I get there and I hit record, like I know exactly what I&#8217;m gonna say and and now it&#8217;s kind of like there&#8217;s, you know, instead of that being a, a 30-second little sentence, and you know, now it&#8217;s a song and so that&#8217;s, the song is already recorded. So now I go out and I hit record and I&#8217;ve got to look like a complete idiot, idiot on the golf course. I&#8217;m about to go out today, just like, oh god, like where can I, where is the quietest place on the course, or no one can see me? Just look like a complete clown. What I might do today, actually set up a phone and record myself recording just to show everyone how big an idiot I look like. But that&#8217;s a you know. 0:33:09 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroI was just thinking that&#8217;s a great idea. Have you ever seen that account? It&#8217;s called influencers in the wild and it&#8217;s basically just yes, I have. It&#8217;s incredible, it&#8217;s the account of other people posting videos. So yeah, it almost be like somebody posting a video of this is what Jake really looks like before it&#8217;s all produced and. 0:33:25 &#8211; Jake HuttThat would be. I&#8217;m definitely gonna do that. I love it. 0:33:29 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroI love it. I&#8217;m glad that that was spawned right here. Yeah, I mean, with your songs it&#8217;s like sometimes you know you&#8217;ll, you&#8217;ll give a tip or whatever, and then it just kind of rings in your head too. So when you&#8217;re standing on the driving range it you remember it because it&#8217;s catchy and it&#8217;s and it&#8217;s quick and simple, and that&#8217;s that&#8217;s been very helpful sometimes. 0:33:50 &#8211; Jake HuttThat&#8217;s great. Yeah, I mean like what I mean I think every golfer is as Shared the sentiment is like the second you step on the golf course, like that environment is just like it&#8217;s pure stress. They not feel like it, but there&#8217;s not a whole lot of space up here left for like any conscious thought or any thought period, right. So like on the range even, like you know you have your notes and your scroll and it&#8217;s like okay, you&#8217;re taking your time, you got your headphones in, you&#8217;re chilling, whatever, let&#8217;s elbow in whatever, I&#8217;m gonna try and twist the feet or whatever. Like when you go the golf course. It&#8217;s like it may be like you, all you, there&#8217;s room for three words, right, and like those words have to have some, some meaning to it. So, like having some sort of a, you know, even a little melody, or even just a, I think a, a visual in your head of whatever mixed with a word and a melody. It seems to be Maybe a little bit more memorable and maybe able to recall it a little bit easier, with less effort to recall whatever that is. So, yeah, I mean it&#8217;s hard for me to know. So it&#8217;s always fun hearing Other people and how they experience it because I just live in my head. You know those songs are everywhere. I don&#8217;t yeah, so anyways, that&#8217;s it&#8217;s. It&#8217;s it&#8217;s cool to hear it, yeah. 0:35:10 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroI love it, my, my son. I told him that I Was like, yeah, have you ever heard of Jake how he&#8217;s like, yeah, I&#8217;m like, oh, I&#8217;m having him on the show? He&#8217;s like, no way, I&#8217;m like, yeah, I actually had him on a couple years ago, if you kind of paid attention to what your dad does at all. No, he didn&#8217;t what&#8217;s his name? Sam. 0:35:28 &#8211; Jake HuttSam, sam what&#8217;s up. Sam Tomas, say what&#8217;s up. 0:35:31 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroI will. I will for sure. Let&#8217;s take a second to thank our partners over at live pure. Live pure is the number one hydration drink that you need on the golf course, especially when it&#8217;s getting hot out there, you&#8217;re sweating, you&#8217;re playing lots of golf. You need something more than just water in your water bottle. So dr Troy van Biesen and his team formulated one of the greatest hydration products out there. That is no sugar added, all natural ingredients and the top quality pga tour pros champions that you know are all using this on the golf course. So go over to live pure comm. That&#8217;s live PUR comm. Check out all their products. You can use code 18STRONG and let live pure champion your day. So when, when you&#8217;re dealing with your students and everything, you&#8217;ve obviously seen a bunch of a bunch of golfers. You still work with golfers all the time. I&#8217;m sure that they they help drive a lot of this thought process. For the content, what are some of the the biggest things that you see Golfers making? What are some of the biggest mistakes? Like you know that most amateurs could benefit from a couple little tips on. You know this or that? 0:36:46 &#8211; Jake HuttYeah, I mean the biggest one, I&#8217;d say in the last. Like teaching with with track man over the last really three years. Like I spent the first you know six years with with no tech. Shockingly, stanford, really nothing there You&#8217;re just, you&#8217;re on a grass range, right and you&#8217;re you&#8217;re trying to figure it out. What most people don&#8217;t understand is just how simple, like if you want the ball to end up in the middle is a bunch of different ways to do it right. So it&#8217;s like Do you know where your pad? You know where your what, where your path is? Do you know if you&#8217;re swinging out to in or end out and Do you know where your face is in relation to that? Like those two things. Like if you understand path and face, like you can get the ball to go where you want it really fast without having to change anything crazy about your swing. Most people&#8217;s path is very consistent. So I you know, like every lesson I give them, for the most part you come in, you know, give me 10, 15 swings with your six iron after your warm and we&#8217;re gonna go through. You know we&#8217;re gonna go through your path and the number is always wildly consistent. You know within a couple degrees. But you&#8217;re either swinging out to in, into out, or you&#8217;re pretty neutral and that&#8217;s gonna dictate your ball flight and what you need to feel with your face. So you know I&#8217;ll put the numbers up on the screen. It&#8217;s like all right, you&#8217;re swinging a little bit out to in. Everyone&#8217;s like oh no, no, it&#8217;s fine, you&#8217;re just gonna. We just want you to play a little pole fade, right, so You&#8217;re don&#8217;t need to think about your backswing, you don&#8217;t need to think about your downswing. But we need to figure out is what you need to feel to get your face in the right place, right, so you want your face halfway in between the target in the path. Here&#8217;s the numbers. Let&#8217;s mess around with it. So, like for me, I always just overdo everything. Like over, close the face, under, close the face. If you can do both those things, you know both those things then you can find the middle May take you 20 shots or 30 shots, but ultimately, like that&#8217;s what we&#8217;re looking at. I&#8217;m looking at path face low point where the club bottoms out with an iron. You want the club to bottom out after driver before and then impact location. Right, and so teaching students the power of intent, like everyone. I was doing online lessons for a long time and then I don&#8217;t really do those anymore because without like, if you don&#8217;t have an understanding of impact, then you get the most beautiful swing in the world, like your ball&#8217;s still not gonna go where you want, right, like. So for the average golfer, the person who&#8217;s practicing once a week, it&#8217;s like. I&#8217;m not gonna change your golf swing. Like I went through that took me 10 years to come out on the other side playing horrendous golf, practicing for hours. You know every day and like I know what that looks like. It&#8217;s awful, it&#8217;s, and sometimes you don&#8217;t come out on the other side, right? You hear plenty of stories of golfers who make it to the highest level and they go to make a movement pattern change and then they&#8217;re you know. You never hear from them again not always the case. But so I&#8217;m varied Like. I look at golf as like, as a. It&#8217;s a skill acquisition. You&#8217;re trying to skill acquisition. How do you acquire a skill? How do you get better at like? To me, it&#8217;s just. Can you get the club to hit the ground in the right place, hit the club face in the right place and then match path and face Like that&#8217;s, that&#8217;s it. And like I had a student come in the other day and like he was hooking it. He was beautiful golf swing, everything was awesome. He&#8217;s sitting the middle of the face. He&#8217;s sitting the ground in the right place. His path is a little from the inside. He thought he was swinging away from the outside. He&#8217;s thinking he&#8217;s like am I supposed to do this or that? Am I? I should be getting some width. And like all these it&#8217;s like dude, you&#8217;re just closing the face too much. So like I was like just try and hit the biggest slice ever. And he hits a perfect little draw. And I&#8217;m like do that again. And he does it again Perfect little draw, perfect little draw. And he&#8217;s like so all I have to do is close the face less. And I&#8217;m like correct. And he&#8217;s like so what am I doing here? I&#8217;m like I don&#8217;t know, what are you doing here. Let&#8217;s pull out your driver and see that he had some issues with the driver. But like that&#8217;s what a lot of the lessons look like is really just like okay, here&#8217;s what you&#8217;re doing, here&#8217;s what you&#8217;re doing good. Everyone&#8217;s already doing something good, whether it&#8217;s hitting the ground in the right place or whatever. And then it&#8217;s just you know, it&#8217;s just dialing it in and then it&#8217;s getting them to understand, like I was listening to Cameron McCormick, space coach, he&#8217;s like the magic is in the feedback. So you know he&#8217;s got track man up and he&#8217;s like, with the you can go out to the range and you can, you know, mess around whatever without the feedback. That&#8217;s great, but the magic is in the feedback. It&#8217;s knowing exactly where you&#8217;re hitting the ground, exactly where your face is. Is it one degree close at two degrees open, being able to feel those tiny little things. Like Bubba can feel an extra wrap of tape around his grip, right, like being just so acutely aware of these tiny things. So that&#8217;s really what golf is is when you go down the route of thinking about these, you know where your club is and what your arm is doing. Like certainly that&#8217;s there&#8217;s a time and a place for it. But I would argue that if you&#8217;re practicing once a week, probably not a great path to go down. So I like, for me it&#8217;s. I feel like I&#8217;ve probably hurt way more golfers than needed just because you need something to say online. Like you, just you can&#8217;t. You know, like you can&#8217;t, just say, like all you got to do is play around with the face, like this shot. It&#8217;s a little close, cause you know you can&#8217;t see ball flight from the video. They&#8217;re just sending you one tiny, you know, a swing and a sample size of eight billion. It&#8217;s like. So I just that&#8217;s kind of how I look at it. It&#8217;s like this really four things and then to get good at. You know, the next question always is like okay, well, I did it once out of 20 times. How do I get more consistent? It&#8217;s like you get come back here when I&#8217;m not here and put the work in right. Yeah, maybe you start. Maybe you start with one set. You start with a seven iron. You get really good at seven iron. Maybe the first session you do you get one out of 40, right, where you get impact location, low point, path and face right. Then you come back and maybe you get five right. Then you come back. You know, instead of once a week, now you&#8217;re practicing three times a week and now you get to the point where you&#8217;re. You know 20 out of 20 are pretty darn good. Then you start adding. You know, let&#8217;s go from seven iron to nine iron to driver, driver, we got a. You know, now you&#8217;re shifting low point a little bit further back. So you&#8217;re hitting further up, shift low point back. Now your path is changing. So you do understand swing direction, low point path, those things. So that&#8217;s like that&#8217;s kind of how how I, without getting too deep into you know the numbers is just is practicing with good feedback and every student is, you know you&#8217;re on track, man, maybe I I might just pull up face angle, close the face, open the face. Could you feel that was seven degrees closed. That feel like I&#8217;ll take away all the data and say, all right, hit a shot. What did you feel? They&#8217;ll say? I guess a number, all right. Negative three. You know faces. You know positive nine, not even close, like all right, so you can&#8217;t tell the difference between closed and open. Let&#8217;s try again. And you do it again, make that number bigger. What do you feel? You know on and on and on and on and you work with someone for you know long enough with that feedback and every single one of them get better. It&#8217;s like it&#8217;s not a mystery anymore, like what makes the Paul curve this way or curve that way? We know everything right. It&#8217;s just it&#8217;s like it&#8217;s it&#8217;s hammering in their head Like this is a skill, sport skill. Trump&#8217;s technique 10 days out of 10, like. But are you willing to put the work in? Most people aren&#8217;t and they don&#8217;t really know what that process looks like and how long and frustrating it is, and that&#8217;s a key too. 0:44:03 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroYou know, I would say that the majority of the regular golfers out there you were talking about practicing once a week I would venture to say that a lot of them don&#8217;t even practice once a week. They go play once a week Maybe. Maybe play twice a week, which is fine, and I mean, if that&#8217;s what you want to do too, but you have to manage your expectations there, right. We have a net here in the gym and I&#8217;m totally guilty of just going and banging balls in the net just for the sake of repetition. And just recently I got one of the new Rapsodo, the MLM 2 Pro, and fired it up for the first time. And it&#8217;s really amazing when you don&#8217;t have feedback all the time. I would hit a ball and was like that felt really good or that you know, kind of thinking what I thought the ball did. And then you look at the feedback and it&#8217;s like, no, that&#8217;s not really what was happening there and it&#8217;s like, oh, so me just being down here banging balls, which I still will continue to do, but you know. 0:45:02 &#8211; Jake HuttSure, it feels great. Just find the middle of the base and you know. Whatever, who cares? 0:45:06 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroBut to your point, like you don&#8217;t really know what&#8217;s happening unless you&#8217;re seeing it, unless you&#8217;re seeing those stats, and you know, and you have to be willing to go out and put in some work and do what your coach tells you or find out what you need to do from your coach, Totally right. 0:45:21 &#8211; Jake HuttYeah, I mean I&#8217;ve just had, I&#8217;ve just found it so fascinating just playing around with the numbers and trying to gamify it, like I was reading some study about trying to find. It was like players trying to hit a wedge a certain distance, because a wedge is ultimately to field shot. It&#8217;s not just like your seven iron full swing is going to go on a good one, you know whatever. 165, 170 yards, like you got to find what 50 yards is, whether you&#8217;re using a clock system or you know whatever, it&#8217;s just a field. So you know, the study was like the students found how to hit 50 yards or 70 yards or whatever it was, by first they&#8217;re trying to hit one long, trying to hit the next one short and then finding somewhere in between right. So it&#8217;s like pulling up, you know face angle, just messing around. It&#8217;s like be a kid, like pull up face angle and try and spray. You know, give me 10 open, give me 10 closed. Give me 7 open, give me 7 closed, you know. And from there it&#8217;s just like it&#8217;s so much easier to find middle. Give me a super out to in swing. Give me 10 left. Give me 10 right. Give me 7 left, give me 7 right, let&#8217;s see if we can find 0. Hit the toe, hit the heel, hit everywhere, but the middle, like Adam Young, the practice manual, the first book, really that like I was like wow, this is just, this makes so much sense. Like give someone a task and then they will let the body self-organize the movement to create the outcome. And Frans Bosch, too, like super interesting stuff. Like have you heard the name Frans Bosch? What&#8217;s the famous? He&#8217;s got this training. But he&#8217;s this. He&#8217;s a Scandinavian. I want to say like the Netherlands or something somewhere over there, dutch, whatever he works with, like the Dutch national baseball team and rugby and team sports, and like I don&#8217;t know how the book came out a while ago so I don&#8217;t know how up to date it is, but like one of the things that he would have students do Is it the anatomy of agility. 0:47:17 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroIs that the name of the book? 0:47:18 &#8211; Jake HuttThat&#8217;s probably one of them he&#8217;s got there&#8217;s one. It&#8217;s a light blue cover. I understood maybe like a tenth of it, as a lot of it is pretty complex. But like if he was trying to get someone to like in the let&#8217;s say he&#8217;s like training baseball, trying to get someone to like put more pressure on their front leg. Like he was just all about like never telling, never using verbal cues for anything, finding ways to get them to do something without telling them how to do it right. So like he would like fatigue their trail leg. He&#8217;d have them do like one-legged squats on their right leg and then have them hit a ball and then like, look at what they&#8217;re doing with their pressure right. So like I thought that was just the coolest, most brilliant thing. As, like you know, I kind of went down the route of of like you&#8217;ve got your, you know your verbal cues versus like how these conscious thoughts are like weakly strung together, things that the brain just will never, it won&#8217;t ever work under pressure. Versus like I forget all the terminology. I was, I was, I had it all down a couple of years ago but, like you know, you want to get someone to hit it low. You can tell them lean the handle forward, lower the dynamic loft, you know. Flex your lead risk, make sure your trail risk is extended and impact all these things, all these verbal cues, that ultimately just there&#8217;s no context, there&#8217;s no meaning. So under pressure falls apart every time. That&#8217;s why everyone sucks at golf. Versus the other way is like get someone under a tree, have them hit the ball under a tree, right, they don&#8217;t know what they&#8217;re doing, they have no clue how they&#8217;re doing it. You&#8217;re going to find faster results by telling someone how to do it initially. So, like you know, in an hour or less or whatever, if you&#8217;re trying to get someone to do, you know, maybe hit one shot good, like you can tell them all the things, which is you know, whatever you&#8217;ll, they&#8217;ll be happy, but it&#8217;ll never work under pressure Versus the other students. Like you get them. It was like Harvey Penaq style, right? Like Harvey Penaq, all his stuff was just so stupid simple. You charge a nickel for a lesson someone&#8217;s hitting, like how I would look at it now. They&#8217;re hitting too much ground, they&#8217;re hitting everything fat, right? He&#8217;d just say right, go, brush leaves off of your grass for a week and come back, give me a nickel your lessons over, like that&#8217;s it. And you know, like, I just thought it was so brilliant, like, but what you know what he&#8217;s teaching? Like, the deeper I looked into it and the more down all these rabbit holes you know I went down. It&#8217;s like for something really to show up. Under pressure, you can&#8217;t really know what you&#8217;re doing, right, and that&#8217;s why, like, good players are shitty teachers because they have no clue what they&#8217;re doing. And that&#8217;s, that&#8217;s a good. That&#8217;s good If you want to play really good golf. Like you can&#8217;t know what you&#8217;re doing, some people are just blessed with it, right, they&#8217;re just they. I was talking to my friend, drew Cooper. I don&#8217;t know if you follow him, he hits it a billion yards. He was out playing, I mean just coolest guy ever and just such a knowledgeable, awesome guy. But he was talking, he was playing with this guy recently in Arizona tour pro Can&#8217;t remember his name who he said was the most impressive ball striker he&#8217;s ever played with. And you know he was picking his brain like what&#8217;s he, what&#8217;s he working on, and like where did he learn? And the guy was just like, yeah, I kind of picked up a club, but I was young and like I guess I had a pretty good swing. And you know, I&#8217;m kind of just, you know just kind of doing this, just saying you know, pretty much saying nothing, like I kind of just feel this and like literally just think. You know, drew said he went out and shot like 63 or whatever and every shot he hit he was mad at, didn&#8217;t? You know? Everything was inside 20 feet. You know like five burry looks inside four feet and he was like that&#8217;s a whole nother world but he&#8217;s like you know, that guy has no idea what he&#8217;s doing and that is why he&#8217;s able to play so good under pressure and that&#8217;s just. It&#8217;s like it&#8217;s crazy, it&#8217;s crazy and like here, you know, here we all are trying to master the swing and it&#8217;s just like it&#8217;s. It&#8217;s a crazy. 0:51:01 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroTrying to try to like make it so complex when you know I mean, obviously you came up from the hockey background. I mean you never had those kind of thoughts when you&#8217;re out in the ice or for me, out on the soccer field or playing baseball, and I always think back to you know you&#8217;re talking about the different degrees for the wedge and you know that little system or how to feel it out or whatever. It&#8217;s like you never thought about any kind of a system for throwing a ball to, to the shortstop versus second base or to, you know, down to home from the outfield. It&#8217;s like you just kind of figured it out. You didn&#8217;t have a. I got to put my hand 30 degrees back and then I got to. I got to throw it from this angle and come out to end. It&#8217;s like no, you just you did it so many times that you felt it and you learned how to do it. And that&#8217;s what I see with the guys that that I know personally, that have played forever. It&#8217;s like they can just go out and they can just sling it, but it&#8217;s because they&#8217;ve done it a million times. 0:51:56 &#8211; Jake HuttYeah, since they were a kid, and you know some people are, are blessed to have just fit. Just, they figure it out really early and their mechanics are, you know they&#8217;re, they&#8217;re good, they&#8217;re good enough. And then you just, yeah, you just you do it enough. And then before you know it, you have just no clue, Like that&#8217;s. You know, you&#8217;re like I don&#8217;t use my hands in a golf swing. So like you tell a beginner like they&#8217;re, like, oh, someone told me not to use my hands. Like I had a guy come in the other day. He&#8217;s like he&#8217;s been playing for four months and he&#8217;d been to a couple instructors and you know he was told like he had a couple of shots. And I&#8217;m like I&#8217;m trying to figure out, like what information was this guy told? And like, cause, like they just make it some really we do some really weird things. And then we started getting into it and like his concept of a golf swing was like for, like you know, for an elite player, it&#8217;s a great field. It&#8217;s like I&#8217;m just going to rotate and I&#8217;m not going to use my hands. You&#8217;ve never learned like you&#8217;re going to better use your arms. You better use your hands. You bet you have to learn how to clothe. You got to learn all these things. So just it&#8217;s so interesting how like and I think, yeah, like it&#8217;s just it&#8217;s interesting as a newer golfer, I think there&#8217;s like certain fundamentals that just are so different than you know, than than an elite golfer, and like what you have to think of is just is so different than once you know, once you get to this point, once you&#8217;ve learned all these things. So it&#8217;s like I&#8217;m always fascinated teaching someone who&#8217;s just started, just started. Teaching this guy who played pro basketball. You know he picked up the game like six months ago, absolutely obsessed with it, and so it&#8217;s just like having a. It&#8217;s always really fun having a good athlete who has no idea what they&#8217;re doing and you get to, like you know, form them and and instill different concepts and have them watch you and you exaggerate different things and like it&#8217;s it&#8217;s just it&#8217;s just so fun teaching someone how to play and just seeing like pure joy on their face when they hit one like he, he won like three hundred and nine yards yesterday and like just went absolutely nuts. He&#8217;s out there playing today. Like it&#8217;s just, it&#8217;s such a, it&#8217;s just so fun. 0:54:02 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroI was going to ask you just you know, like with your hockey background, obviously hockey players tend to be pretty good golfers. You know the a lot of the pros that end up going and playing a lot of golf. They tend to smash a ball a mile. Um, working with some different athletes I&#8217;m sure you&#8217;ve worked with with several Um have you found that one type of athlete is a little more prone to to playing better golf, like hockey, baseball? I&#8217;ve seen some some basketball players, golf swings, and they&#8217;re not always all that great. But just wonder if you&#8217;ve come across any specific sports that you think have really kind of carried over, or is it more person to person? 0:54:38 &#8211; Jake HuttYou know. I mean like obviously you&#8217;ve got Steph Curry incredible, um, he&#8217;s been playing since he was young and what&#8217;s interesting too is, uh, I can&#8217;t remember what I was talking to another basketball player, uh, who was? Uh, it was Damien Lee. Um, I gave him a few less. We actually pulled the dry box up right in front of his house. He&#8217;s like I have no issue with short game or putting shooters. Like our hands are awesome, touch, feel like I can. He pulls down there, ball breaks left to right, like I&#8217;ve got touch all day. You know what I mean? Like the layups that, um, and I can&#8217;t remember who said it, but it was like or where I heard it was like the. The golf swing is the culmination of everything you&#8217;ve done up until that point. Right, like it&#8217;s just a blend of everything. Um, and so baseball pitchers are awesome. They&#8217;re like I mean the trail arm, the external rotation, the separation, the slamming the lead foot into the ground, the deceleration, the rotation, like they&#8217;re just like to me, the most insane. Like what they do with their body to create to get that ball moving as fast as it does is like the sickest thing ever. Um, then you get a golf club in their hand. It&#8217;s just like whoa. Hockey players are like a very different. They create speed very differently. Like you have to have really strong forearms and hands and wrists. And so what I&#8217;ve learned along the way is like wrist grip strength plays a massive role in speed, being able to, um, like I, like drew has his next gear golf. So I went through I was like one of their guinea pigs going through like three months of uh of of their protocols, and there&#8217;s a lot of like wrist strength stuff, like kind of taking your hands, like like in pushup position, going here, going there, going there and talking to him about it too, like he had like a wrist injury. Like when you&#8217;re whipping that club around your body, you&#8217;re slowing it. You have to slow it down and then speed it up again. There&#8217;s so much force that goes into your wrist and like your brain knows what your body can handle and not. So if you don&#8217;t have the forearm strength, the hand strength, the grip strength, all that, like you&#8217;re not going to be able to generate nearly enough, nearly as much speed as the next person. And you wouldn&#8217;t be able to see it with your eyes either, like you can&#8217;t see that force. Uh, and it&#8217;s the same thing with using the ground too. Like you look at Drew&#8217;s swing and it&#8217;s like wow, it looks like he, you know, it looks like he was going at that a little bit. And you look at the club speed, it&#8217;s like 150 miles an hour and you just carry it at 380. You&#8217;re like whoa, um, and then you look at how much force he&#8217;s producing at the ground, how hard he&#8217;s pushing, um, and it&#8217;s just like it&#8217;s crazy. So, like hockey players, you know really short swings, but we&#8217;re able to again really strong forms, strong hands and then being able to dissociate on land. You know when you&#8217;re, when you&#8217;re taking a slap shot. Like you, you&#8217;re on a blade, yeah, so you really have to be good at like that lead ankle. Your ankles are really really strong, and then everyone knows how to create separation. You&#8217;re, you&#8217;re able to rotate the hips crazy open while keeping your chest closed, um, and then what&#8217;s interesting, like how we uh, every hockey player hits it really low and left. Why? Because the the a slap shot, the face is pointing down and you&#8217;re flexing the stick and that&#8217;s just like we&#8217;ve been making that motion forever. So like you pick up a golf club and every hockey player, for the most part, is going to battle a big old snap, hook, right, right, like um, and then, yeah, you&#8217;ve got. Like the football players are usually really rigid because if they&#8217;re not, then they&#8217;re going to, they&#8217;re not going to make it, they&#8217;re going to get their head knocked off, right, they&#8217;re going to be injured after one play. So rotation and dissociation is usually really really difficult for them. So they have a hard time creating speed. Um, like, that&#8217;s kind of another thing. Like in hockey, like you also do have to have a level of rigidity so that, like when you get smashed, like you don&#8217;t fall apart. So like for me once hockey was over, is I, I I got away from a lot of weight lifting and just like I was, like I just my body needed to become a little softer so it could move and rotate a little bit more and become a little spongier and um, I don&#8217;t know how in like. That was just kind of my feel. I know there&#8217;s a lot of great research out there now that obviously like, if you lift in the right way and keep mobility up, lifting is obviously great, but it is just so fascinating looking at all the different athletes and who&#8217;s good, who&#8217;s not and all the different patterns that go into it. Like I don&#8217;t know if you saw what&#8217;s his name Nadal&#8217;s golf swing like, exactly like is Like like his forehand tennis shot, like it&#8217;s literally like his backswing goes to about here, but it looks exactly like how he hits a tennis ball. It&#8217;s the craziest thing. 0:59:35 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroI&#8217;m looking that up as soon as we get off. It&#8217;s so cool, I think you know. You mentioned, like just the different types of athletes. It&#8217;s very true, like the, the football players, and we even had dr Stuart McGill on here talking about he&#8217;s a spine expert. Sorry, doctor and you, his stuff is awesome, yeah, and he, you know, talks about how, if you&#8217;re playing you know sports like that you need to lift heavy and build rigidity in your spine, but if you&#8217;re a golf, you need that elasticity and you need to be able to move, and so everything that you just said like about the Pictures and and the hockey players almost being a little bit of a cross between the two makes it a ton of sense. And as to why, you know, for For some guys, like the football players, if they&#8217;re getting into the golf world, they need to do a little bit more like what you did and that&#8217;s, you know, work on. You got to be able to move and rotate and try to regain some of that, and in other sports you might have to to build up a little bit more strength and resilience and rigidity, because you&#8217;ve gone the other way. That&#8217;s a great point. 1:00:32 &#8211; Jake HuttYeah, it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s. It&#8217;s so fun to just get into all that stuff I was talking to drew to about, like because he&#8217;s got a background in exercise science and so like, it&#8217;s just so fun to talks about the Like you&#8217;ve got. You can do an extra, you can. You can lift really heavy and slower and then you can obviously lift lighter and faster and so kind of like Looking at what every person needs, do you need which do you need more of? To kind of find that like, is it? You know so many people that are into speed now, which is so cool? Just the long drive thing, which I&#8217;m also kind of surprised hasn&#8217;t taken off as much over the years, but it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s, yeah, it&#8217;s so cool seeing, like, all the, all the different types of athletes that are getting into the long drive stuff and that are out there just to hit the ball as far as humanly possible. That&#8217;s said. Said what L guy, the double pump guy? I don&#8217;t have seen him, oh. 1:01:24 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroI mean just crazy speed, ball speed, it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s like we like 160 now. And now your, your boy, drew, though like watching him, he&#8217;s just got a beautiful golf swing and then it&#8217;s just that, to see how far the ball is going, how fast that club that you&#8217;re like, really it didn&#8217;t look like he put that much effort into it and it&#8217;s just just smashed. It&#8217;s awesome. 1:01:49 &#8211; Jake HuttHe would be an awesome guy to have on the podcast. You guys would have an awesome talk and he&#8217;s just the coolest dude ever. 1:01:56 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroI would love to have him on. 1:01:57 &#8211; Jake HuttI&#8217;m happy to connect to you guys too. Yeah, as he can go into all of it like he&#8217;s just got. He grew up playing and but he&#8217;s got all the background of like. What I love about picking his brain is like so much information that I&#8217;ve kind of found along the way like which is awesome, like you&#8217;ve got it like kind of the old-school guys, which is all like what do they feel, which I think is very valuable, like insanely valuable, but is also kind of fleeting, it&#8217;s not really what&#8217;s happening. And I still feel like there&#8217;s like in the golf world, like everyone looks at golf like this like mysterious, like magical thing, that like it&#8217;s it&#8217;s not a sport, it&#8217;s like it&#8217;s it&#8217;s living in its this own world over here of like make believe, like whatever it&#8217;s like, but in reality it&#8217;s like it&#8217;s just like anything else. It&#8217;s like it&#8217;s a physical movement. That like there are laws that govern these things rotation, torque, and how to, how to create and do these things right that like it&#8217;s just it&#8217;s yeah, it&#8217;s just really cool Picking someone&#8217;s brain who kind of has the like both of those the golf skill, but also the knowledge of like the gnarly exercise science stuff that I know little about, always learning and then in being able to also execute it and then talk about all that&#8217;s anyways. 1:03:14 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroGreat guy. Yeah, that&#8217;s what&#8217;s fascinating. He then, he then does it out there on the course you can. You can see him. 1:03:20 &#8211; Jake HuttYou can see him putting it all into action, right, it&#8217;s yep. Yeah, it does it really really well too, and it&#8217;s fun to watch. 1:03:26 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroAll right, man, just a couple questions to finish this out here. I know last time we had you on we asked you all of our kind of typical ones, so I got a couple random ones that came from some of our crew. First one is what does Jake Hutt listen to most out on the golf course? I assume you&#8217;re a music on the course kind of guy. Oh, yeah, and absolutely, and if so, who are some of the artists that you&#8217;ve listened to the most recently? Oh, man. 1:03:50 &#8211; Jake HuttI mean, I love soul hip-hop. I&#8217;ll also I mean the the. The boring answer is everything I&#8217;ll say, like my fate if it&#8217;s like a Not sunny summer day outside like I love. I don&#8217;t even know if I&#8217;m saying this right. Crew nga bin. Have you heard? A crew nga bin? 1:04:10 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroNo. 1:04:10 &#8211; Jake HuttI don&#8217;t even know how to spell it. There&#8217;s like 8,000 letters in this, in this band. But it&#8217;s like it&#8217;s like vibey stoner hippie music. It&#8217;s kind of like got some country vibes. It&#8217;s like it&#8217;s just, it&#8217;s so relaxing. I that&#8217;s like Some of my, some of a fun outlandish one that if you&#8217;ve never heard of it, super there, they&#8217;re awesome. 1:04:30 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroAll right, we&#8217;ll figure out how to spell that. We&#8217;ll throw that one in the show. All right, I want Jake Hutt to define the word dusty. 1:04:39 &#8211; Jake HuttOh, dusty, god. It can mean absolutely anything. It can be good, it can be bad, it&#8217;s all about. It&#8217;s kind of like I was just watching what&#8217;s that movie? Good, donnie Brasco and they&#8217;re in in Johnny Depp is trying to define forget about it, yeah Right, when, like, he puts it into all these, like he&#8217;s like it can forget about. It can be this, and then different tone can be that. It can also be this, it can also be that. So, like it started out, I mean, it does these. It&#8217;s a hockey term, right, dusty is like a. It&#8217;s been used forever. I definitely didn&#8217;t make it up. Dusty is like. I Guess that the technical dusty word, which is an word at all, is just means like it, it&#8217;s bad, it sucks. Like that Person that, like that sticker, that pair look at how dusty that is. Like it&#8217;s just, it&#8217;s not good, but it&#8217;s evolved. It&#8217;s evolved like the podcast, that, that that I did. It&#8217;s just. It&#8217;s taken on so many forms. It can mean anything, just about how you use it, the tone you use. This. I&#8217;m learning so many new words with my son being in high school. 1:05:49 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroThere&#8217;s so much new that and it the greatest thing in the world is if you&#8217;re, if you ever become a parent all the, all the dads and moms listening Will appreciate this is learning the new words and then purposefully using them incorrectly in front of your kids, especially at the dinner table. I it just it. I mean it just grinds their brains, I mean it just grinds their teeth. You know it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s one of the things I live for these days. 1:06:14 &#8211; Jake HuttThat&#8217;s awesome. What&#8217;s what&#8217;s one of the words coming up now I heard like Riz is Riz one. Riz is one. Yeah, what is that? 1:06:21 &#8211; Jeff Pelizzaroone. It kind of me. I think it comes from charisma, you know, like that guy&#8217;s got Riz, okay, yeah, and real creative with it. Yeah, what&#8217;s another one? I still don&#8217;t totally understand this one. But cap and no cap, like no cap means like I&#8217;m not lying or like. 1:06:41 &#8211; Jake HuttIt&#8217;s like exclamation point, isn&#8217;t it kind of like? It&#8217;s like, I guess so I don&#8217;t know. 1:06:45 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroNo, we&#8217;ll have Sam, we&#8217;ll have Sam define all these. But yeah, there&#8217;s oh yeah and then sus, of course, is is one. 1:06:53 &#8211; Jake HuttOh sus, yeah, yeah, I remember hearing that one for the first time. Yeah, that&#8217;s like, and I&#8217;m old. Yeah, exactly, well, imagine having a teenage kid. 1:07:01 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroThat&#8217;s how you end up feeling. All right, last one here what&#8217;s what&#8217;s the sickest course that you&#8217;ve played this year? And then what&#8217;s one course maybe off the radar course, that that you want to get to? 1:07:13 &#8211; Jake HuttLet&#8217;s see my, I mean Lake Merced just got redone out here In San Francisco and I absolutely love that golf course. That. That&#8217;s been my favorite one this year, definitely. And then let&#8217;s see pretty I mean pretty standard Rotation out here. I don&#8217;t, when I travel I don&#8217;t get to play a whole lot of golf like I. I&#8217;m like the least traveled golfer ever. I haven&#8217;t played in very many states. I&#8217;ve played all the courses here in California. So, karik, chuck, karika, karika, there&#8217;s north and south Public golf course, australian sand belt style golf. You know lots of hit like not not the prettiest Course ever, but it&#8217;s just a different style course out here. And they have they didn&#8217;t finish the back nine of the north course, so just nine holes and you can only walk and it&#8217;s just like kind of. It&#8217;s just a like a fun vibe out here. You know most courses out here, lots of trees, this is just kind of a fun. This is just kind of a fun. We just go and you just walk around and like there aren&#8217;t any carts out there. You just got kind of vibe to it. So I&#8217;ll say Karika, north, I Could say Stanford, I mean please, stanford is is a great kind of hidden gem out here that I don&#8217;t think a lot of people have played or maybe even heard about or know about, like on the higher end. Stanford is incredible. It&#8217;s an incredible shape. They hired the superintendent from the course they play. That Used to be the safe way open. Now it&#8217;s the Some security Fortnet. Oh yeah, I think the first turn of the year. So they hired that superintendent. He just like the, the course, just in immaculate condition, so that maybe one let flies a little bit more into the radar. Awesome course. So maybe those, those three. 1:08:57 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroSweet, and is there a place that&#8217;s on your list? If you do get a chance to travel, like, say, say, we had the 18STRONG jet Fuelled up ready to go, where&#8217;s Jake going? 1:09:07 &#8211; Jake HuttGod, I like I I probably wouldn&#8217;t go for any of the obvious ones like there&#8217;s you get like Pine Valley sounds pretty cool, that&#8217;s I feel like that&#8217;s an obvious one too. And like I don&#8217;t care about playing Augusta that&#8217;s too too obvious. I love like Tory on a nice day is just like the most beautiful place ever. It&#8217;s got a relaxing vibe like Maybe you don&#8217;t have to wear a collared shirt out there. Honestly, I don&#8217;t know. Maybe somewhere in Hawaii I&#8217;ve got a good friend of mine who&#8217;s a pro out there in Hawaii at Koalina, and he keeps telling me about these insane courses I&#8217;ve never heard of. So I might just fly over there, meet up with him and just have him take me to one of those courses, whichever ones those are. I&#8217;m not like a massive like course architect nerd. So, like I said, I still have some learn to do on that end. So I&#8217;m just gonna go to Hawaii and I&#8217;ll figure out somewhere fun to play out there, wherever that is. 1:10:01 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroI can&#8217;t imagine many prettier views than awful one of those islands that&#8217;s. 1:10:05 &#8211; Jake HuttI know right. 1:10:06 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroSpecial, awesome. All right, man. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to come on. It&#8217;s always great hanging with you and I know you&#8217;re gonna continue putting out a ton of content. Hopefully we&#8217;ll be seeing a drive box here in St Louis one of these days and yes, you know, I will for sure. I will for sure, man. Thanks again for coming on and we&#8217;ll talk to you soon, absolutely Thanks so much for having me. 1:10:29 &#8211; Jake HuttThis was a blast. Happy to do anytime if there&#8217;s anything I do to help. 1:10:37 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroAll right. Thanks for joining us this week on the 18STRONG podcast with Jake Hutt. If you want any more information on Jake or drive box, or you&#8217;re looking to maybe franchise one of those drive boxes, just go to 18STRONG calm. This is episode number 352. We&#8217;ll have all the information there in the show notes, so check up again with us. Next week We&#8217;ll have another great guest. Train hard, practice smart and play better golf. Transcribed by https://podium.page

Guest: Alex Bennett; Fitness Specialist PGA Tour Performance Center (TPC Sawgrass)Host: Jeff PelizzaroEpisode Number: 351Podcast: The 18STRONG Podcast Summary In this compelling discussion, we&#8217;re joined by Alex Bennett, a renowned fitness specialist at the PGA Tour Performance Center. Alex shares his journey from playing professional golf to becoming a fitness specialist, discussing the importance of golf-specific training. He also gives us a peek into his experiences working with tour players like Billy Horschel and Sam Ryder, helping them maximize their physical potential on the golf course. You&#8217;ll be captivated by Alex&#8217;s insights on golf and fitness, from his unique assessments for mobility, strength, power, and endurance, to his creative use of technology and equipment to improve golf swings. Moving forward, we shift our focus to the extensive facilities at the PGA Tour Performance Center and the essential role they play in enhancing players&#8217; performance. Alex offers a detailed view of his day-to-day interaction with the tour players and other fitness trainers. From discussions about how he&#8217;s worked with retired golfers and juniors to his approach towards individual goal setting and conditioning, it&#8217;s an enriching conversation that will leave you with a better understanding of golf fitness. Wrapping up, we chat about the application of biomechanics in golf and the importance of creating speed and power efficiently. Alex shares how he uses cues and activations to connect players&#8217; learning to their golf swings, helping them stay injury-free and perform at their highest level. He also reveals his book recommendations and recounts his memorable experiences at TPC Sawgrass. Listen in for a wealth of knowledge and expertise from a top PGA Tour fitness specialist. Whether you&#8217;re a tour player, an avid golfer, or just a fitness enthusiast, this is an episode you won&#8217;t want to miss! Main Topics (0:00:03) &#8211; Golf and Fitness With PGA SpecialistAlex Bennett shares assessments and recommendations for golfers to improve mobility, strength, power, fitness, and endurance. (0:07:57) &#8211; PGA Tour Fitness and FacilitiesAlex Bennett discusses the PGA Tour Performance Center, its facilities, staff, and how he works with tour players, retired golfers, and juniors. (0:12:14) &#8211; Improving Golf Performance and Preventing InjuriesAlex Bennett explains the importance of assessment, corrective-based warm-up routine, consistency, and professional-quality website. (0:16:40) &#8211; Golf Conditioning and Individual Goal SettingAlex works with golfers to improve conditioning, emphasizing injury prevention and shorter rest times with specific goals. (0:25:37) &#8211; Fitness and Golf Performance ConversationAlex Bennett works with golfers, emphasizing acclimation and avoiding running and powerlifting to help them stay healthy and perform at their best. (0:29:18) &#8211; Improve Golf Swing With TechnologyAlex Bennett helps tour players improve mechanics, activate muscles, and feel changes in their golf swing. (0:35:21) &#8211; Biomechanics and Power in BaseballAlex shares experience using Kaiser functional trainer to improve swing sequencing, create speed and power efficiently, and cue players with alignment rod. (0:44:49) &#8211; Biomechanics and Balance in Golf ImpactAlex Bennett shares insights on tour player training, mobility, stretching, fast twitch speed, and the Kaiser functional trainer for golf swing sequencing. (0:48:52) &#8211; Golf, Books, and Social Media RecommendationsAlex Bennett shares his love for rap music, recommends books, reveals his dream foursome, and recounts his experiences at TPC Sawgrass. Connect with Alex Instagram: @abfitnessandgolf Episode Partners: LINKSOUL:&nbsp;For your 20% discount on LINKSOUL gear, go to&nbsp;18strong.com/linksoul&nbsp;or click the logo above. LivPur: For your 15% discount on LivPur products, go to&nbsp;LivPur.com&nbsp;(or click the logo above) and use the code &#8220;18STRONG&#8220;. 1st Phorm: Try any of the 1st Phorm products with FREE SHIPPING, go to 1stphorm.com/18strong.com More Cool Stuff to Check Out: To continue the conversation and ask any questions you may have, head over to the&nbsp;18STRONG Movement group on Facebook. 18STRONG Pro Shop (Get your 18STRONG gear!) 18STRONG Resources (All of the cool stuff we recommend: products, books, golf stuff, etc &#8211; and discount codes for the 18STRONG Crew) Want the full episode transcript? (click the &#8220;+&#8221; ????????) Transcript generated by Podium.page 0:00:03 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroThe 18STRONG Podcast, episode Number 351, with Alex Bennett, fitness specialist at the PGA Tour Performance Center. What&#8217;s up guys? Welcome back to the 18STRONG Podcast, where we&#8217;re here to help you build up your strength. We&#8217;re here to help you build a stronger game. This week we&#8217;ve got Alex Bennett, the fitness specialist at the PGA Tour Performance Center, down at TPC Sawgrass and this week we&#8217;re talking with him about everything under the sun when it comes to golf and fitness, specifically working with his tour players, what he&#8217;s doing with them to make them as strong as possible, get them as fit and conditioned as well as possible to get out on the golf course. He&#8217;s working with Billy Horschul, sam Ryder and a lot of other tour players that play out of TPC Sawgrass, but he also works with a lot of the general public, either golfers that are coming down for the week or golfers that work in the area and play golf there. So he has a lot of experience with every level of golfer, from juniors to collegiate players to professionals. So we discuss how does he utilize an assessment? What&#8217;s his recommendations for people when they come in and they&#8217;re struggling with either their mobility or their strength or their power or their fitness or just their general endurance out on the golf course. So you&#8217;re really going to enjoy this episode with Alex Bennett. We&#8217;re going to get into our conversation right after this. Our partners over at Linksoul have been providing us with the best apparel for both on the course and off the course, from polos to t-shirts like the one I have on right now. Everything that they have is meant to be worn from the golf course to wherever you&#8217;re going next, so it&#8217;s very casual whether that be to the beach. There&#8217;s all different options over there. So go to 18strong.com/linksoul. You&#8217;ll get 20% off of anything in your cart over on Linksoul&#8217;s website. So again, 18strong.com/linksoul for our favorite brand of apparel for anything on the golf course and off. Now let&#8217;s get to this week&#8217;s interview. So how long have you been down at TPC? 0:02:20 &#8211; Alex BennettThis is year seven actually. 0:02:23 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroReally yeah. How did that whole thing come about? 0:02:28 &#8211; Alex BennettSo I was actually so I played in college and then I was playing professionally and I had a bunch of injuries and I kind of fell in love with the whole physical side of it and the whole corrective exercise science behind it. I realized that I was doing a lot of stuff to look good at the beach and not play good golf. So once I got more into the physical therapy side, I fell in love with it. I realized you really need to train for your specific sport and there&#8217;s a big difference between training to just look good and training for your sport. So I ended up breaking my wrist. I was on a cast and I did the National Academy of Sports Medicine, I did Athletic and Fitness Association of America, I did TPI. I basically did all the training I could possibly do. While I was in the cast and just killing time, I was working at a place called Fitness by Frank Jeff. Frank was the head of that gym. He&#8217;s VJ Singh&#8217;s guy. He kind of hired me to do a lot of the golf training and I was there for a little while and then I just got lucky. This place was under construction, it was opening and Todd Anderson knew me a little bit from my playing days. I used to work with Jared Zach on my swing and he&#8217;s working at Sea Island. We had actually me and Todd had never met and Todd Anderson was the director of instruction here, appointed the director of instruction here. So I came here, got lucky, got an interview and me and him hit it off and then it was kind of funny, the interview process. I thought the first interview went really well and he was like I&#8217;ll be in touch. I didn&#8217;t hear anything for a few months and I was like, well, whatever, it didn&#8217;t go my way. I was kind of new in the business. I was young, so they&#8217;re probably looking for someone with more experience. He called me on a Tuesday. I&#8217;ll never forget. He called me on a Tuesday out of nowhere and I was like, oh man, I got to take this call. Hopefully he&#8217;s calling me on purpose and it&#8217;s not a but down. But he was like hey man, can you meet me at Fresh Market? There&#8217;s a grocery store here right outside of TBC. Can you meet me at Fresh Market? We&#8217;re going to hop in my truck and we&#8217;re going to go to a client&#8217;s house. I want you to do an assessment on them and kind of tell us everything you would do differently or whatever you see, tell us. So I get in the car and we&#8217;re driving and he goes yeah, I&#8217;m taking you to Billy Horshaw&#8217;s house. It was the week of the Masters. He didn&#8217;t qualify for the Masters. He had kind of had a tough year and I was like man, all right, billy Horshaw, it&#8217;s pretty big name, so we&#8217;re going there. He was not the most welcoming guy and I think they were kind of testing me. They were seeing if I was just going to kind of be a yes man or if I was going to tell them what I thought he could get better at. And I was like the first 10 minutes I&#8217;m like I&#8217;m not going to get this job. This is not going great. Billy&#8217;s barely even looked at me. This is tough. So I was like all right, well, if I&#8217;m going to go out, I&#8217;m just going to tell him everything I think he could fix or that&#8217;s wrong with his body. We did an assessment. I pointed out what I would change, what I would do, and they ended up liking it a lot and Todd offered me the job in Billy&#8217;s driveway as we were leaving. So I was pretty thrilled. It was kind of funny too. I had just gotten engaged and my mom I had like six missed phone calls because I ended up being over there for almost three and a half hours and they were just like, did it, how did it go? We were hurting them, where are you? So it was pretty funny, but it was great and I&#8217;m like very thankful obviously to Todd and Billy for giving me an opportunity when I was I think I was 25, 26 when I got the job, so I was definitely definitely very thankful. 0:06:13 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroAnd you&#8217;re still I mean, I still see you working with Billy on a regular basis, right? 0:06:17 &#8211; Alex BennettYeah, I mean Billy, have worked together pretty much ever since after I got this job. I think he finished out that year and then in the off season I started working with him and I&#8217;ve worked with him ever since. Yeah, wow. 0:06:30 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroSo your pros are actually down right in your area. Are they members at TPC, like? Does Billy play there on a regular basis and do the other guys that I see you working with? 0:06:40 &#8211; Alex BennettYeah, I mean there&#8217;s there&#8217;s a lot of guys that are members here that play out of here. I don&#8217;t work with all of them. I&#8217;ve got I think I&#8217;ve got eight guys this year on tour and they all pretty much live out of here. Yeah. 0:06:55 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroOkay, Gotcha. So the performance center. Describe it to people a little bit. I had a chance to go there the week of the players championship and unfortunately our paths didn&#8217;t cross. I knew you were working like some crazy hours and just didn&#8217;t. 0:07:07 &#8211; Alex BennettYeah, I was running around that week. That week&#8217;s always busy, for sure. 0:07:10 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroYeah, I mean, are you there like just sun up to sun down and then get out as quick as you can to get some shut eye? 0:07:16 &#8211; Alex BennettPlayers is tough. Yeah, I mean there&#8217;s a year I mean the year we had all the restarts when we had a ton of rain and it was cold. I think it was two years ago. I mean I don&#8217;t even remember that week. It was insane. I mean I was in here warming up guys at four in the morning and then hanging around because it was like we&#8217;d get a weather delay and then they&#8217;d want to warm up again at two o&#8217;clock for their you know, their restart. I mean that was a. That was a crazy week. This year was a little less crazy, but it was still. I mean, it&#8217;s always nuts Guys are wanting to warm up super early in the morning and then I&#8217;m kind of just hanging around and I had, I think I had six guys in the tournament this year, so it was definitely a busy one just kind of hanging around. I&#8217;ve got a whole new appreciation for the guys that travel nonstop on tour with their guys. I&#8217;m actually going to start traveling a little more next year, nice. So I know it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s definitely exhausting, but it&#8217;s it&#8217;s. I think it&#8217;s worth it just to get your you know, show your face out there on tour and kind of get some more eyeballs on you. 0:08:15 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroI think when, when the players is going on, are the other guys that you don&#8217;t work with? Are they utilizing the performance center as well? Are they going to the fitness trailer, or how does that work? 0:08:26 &#8211; Alex BennettYeah, so we did a bit of both. Yeah, I mean guys were using the fitness trailer but guys were also coming over to the performance center. I mean we had a lot of players. You know, I&#8217;ve gotten to know a lot of trainers out there and now they&#8217;ll just shoot me a text like hey, can we come use the performance center, can we? You know trailers and little packed or hotel gyms, not as good as we thought. Whatever it may be, I&#8217;m always open to letting guys come over and use it. The PGA tour has been nice enough to let me keep it the last four or five years. When I first started here, they&#8217;d move all the gym equipment out and it would actually be like a headquarters for all the rules official. So it was insane. I mean we&#8217;ve had like doors broken just from people moving equipment in and out of the gym. The door still one of our doors to the gym still doesn&#8217;t work properly and everybody&#8217;s always like man, what&#8217;s that I&#8217;m like? Well, I was like five years ago the players and we had been bent to hinge and we haven&#8217;t fixed it still. But I mean now I&#8217;ve got so much equipment in there and it just became. It&#8217;s like you got this many guys playing in the tournament and I&#8217;ve got this many guys coming to the facility just to use the gym. I think you know the tour was like why don&#8217;t we just let them keep in? We&#8217;ll have that much extra space for players I mean, it is deep players. So let&#8217;s make it as good as possible for the players actually playing the tournament and give them as many options as possible. 0:09:39 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroHow big is the place and what else is in there? Do you guys have hitting bays? Unfortunately I didn&#8217;t get a chance to go and really like so the performance center itself is pretty big. 0:09:46 &#8211; Alex BennettWe&#8217;ve got four hitting bays. I&#8217;m sitting right now, we&#8217;re sitting in our like break room kind of area. We&#8217;ve got four hitting bays. We&#8217;ve got the gym upstairs, we&#8217;ve got a putting lab upstairs, we&#8217;ve got a couple of offices upstairs, we&#8217;ve got a bunch of offices on the bottom floor, and then we just re-turfed our entire tee with a special type of Bermuda that they&#8217;re using. They used it in the Super Bowl and it&#8217;s supposed to like come back in half the time as normal Bermuda, because we&#8217;re we&#8217;re having a problem where we were running out of turf on our tee just because we were so busy, but this summer, luckily, like it&#8217;s been a little lighter. So our tee looks pretty good right now, but it&#8217;s. It&#8217;s a pretty big place. We&#8217;ve got a nice chipping green, nice putting green. We&#8217;ve got putting instructors, you know. We&#8217;ve got a few swing instructors. We&#8217;ve got Todd Anderson, obviously. So it&#8217;s it&#8217;s definitely a good place to work at if you&#8217;re looking to get better at golf. 0:10:39 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroYeah, Are you the the only fitness person in there? Are you the director of fitness? And? 0:10:44 &#8211; Alex BennettYeah, I&#8217;m the only fitness here, I&#8217;m the finals fitness specialist. The tours got some some interesting rules about what it takes to be a director. You kind of have to have two employees working underneath you. The problem with our space I don&#8217;t know if you got to see the gym, but I think it&#8217;s about 800 square feet, so it&#8217;s not like massive and it actually was originally two hitting bays that we&#8217;re going to be simulators, so it&#8217;s not the rooms, kind of like two rooms put together basically. So it&#8217;s not got the best like flow to it. So it gets crowded in there quick and sometimes, like I&#8217;ll have, especially when the cornferries off and the PGA tours off, I mean I&#8217;ll have three to four guys in there at a time and it&#8217;s it&#8217;s definitely gets crowded. So if we had another trainer and they were just we, it would be we&#8217;d really have to work on our scheduling right now. Like the tour players enjoy having the freedom of you know they book a time and they go. Oh hey, I saw you know so, and so is that eight. I&#8217;m just going to join them. So it&#8217;s like we try to keep it as fluid as possible around here, cause we&#8217;re always, we feel like we always say, schedule and pencil, cause you&#8217;re going to be erasing a lot. 0:11:54 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroYes, yeah, yeah. So do you have other like just general public golfers that come in to see you too? 0:12:00 &#8211; Alex BennettI do. I have a lot of. I actually have a lot of just normal golfers that are either retired and they&#8217;re just looking to play three days in a row without being in a lot of pain, and I also have a lot of juniors that I work with as well. I really enjoy working with a lot of the juniors. Honestly, that&#8217;s kind of why I got into it, because I had all the injuries I had and I was doing the wrong things in the gym, so I was really like, all right, how do I help people not make the same mistakes I made? 0:12:25 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroYeah, let&#8217;s, let&#8217;s dive into that a little bit, because I think that there&#8217;s there&#8217;s so much like low hanging fruit kind of stuff that people just don&#8217;t realize. Just a few simple things can can make a huge difference. But talk a little bit about you know. You said you&#8217;re kind of more working out for the pool, working out for the beach, muscles kind of thing, like most of us guys do when we&#8217;re, you know, young and you know and so what are some of the things that you know, some of these, let&#8217;s say the young aspiring golfers, and even then just general John Q, public golfer can start to implement. they&#8217;re going to make some big differences. And what should they maybe start to kind of take away from the routine that they probably have adopted? 0:13:04 &#8211; Alex BennettYeah, I mean, the thing I always preach to people is just go get assessed like get assessed by a TPI certified trainer or functional movement patterns trainer, somebody and I&#8217;m a big fan of, like I said, corrective exercise science, I think somebody with an understanding, and that&#8217;s huge when you&#8217;re playing a sport that&#8217;s as one sided as golf is, because you&#8217;re just always going to be so imbalanced and seeing someone and being really, you know, accurate with what your issues are, and then seeing them to kind of be like all right, let&#8217;s design a warm up routine or a daily routine that&#8217;s corrective based. That&#8217;s going to really help me stay healthy and play consistently and not be in pain. All my players have very specific warm ups to them. I mean, there&#8217;s basic foundational things we do and all the warm ups, but each one of them has a little bit. There&#8217;ll be like three or four moves that are different from player A to player B and I&#8217;m just I tell amateurs all the time I say you know, working all day and then just driving 30 minutes of the course and then swinging two clubs and then trying to hit balls isn&#8217;t going to do it, like you&#8217;re going to be in pain and you&#8217;re not going to get better at golf and then they take, you know, they take 50 lessons and they don&#8217;t see much improvement. And I&#8217;m like, well, it&#8217;s great they&#8217;re telling you the right thing, but physically you just can&#8217;t do it. And then when you sit at a desk all day and you&#8217;re trying to get more external rotation on your shoulders or more thoracic rotation, and you&#8217;re sitting here at a computer all day like this, what makes you think you&#8217;re just bodies just going to naturally be like oh, I can go do this now. So seeing seeing someone getting assessed and like and then getting a, you know, in a specific routine to that individual that they can do daily, that&#8217;s not going to make them super sore, but it&#8217;s going to, it&#8217;s going to have, you know, core activation. It&#8217;s going to have glued activation and it&#8217;s going to have some thoracic rotation. It&#8217;s going to have, it&#8217;s going to address the issues that person has. I think it&#8217;s just so important for every single person, even if they&#8217;re not trying to play competitive golf, but if they want to just be healthy and play golf. 0:15:05 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroWell in the consistency is so key too right? I saw on your website you have a great video and you talk about how, if you are somebody that&#8217;s that&#8217;s working at a desk, or really just anybody when you go to the tee, your body&#8217;s going to feel different every single time that you step up to swing a golf ball or to swing a golf club at the golf ball, and so having that consistency is just dialing in the body right. So having some sort of routine that you know day in, day out you&#8217;re, you know what you need to check off the list to get yourself prepared. 0:15:35 &#8211; Alex BennettYeah, the site. It&#8217;s a work in progress. Right now I just had this, uh, Sal Sincatus, his name. He&#8217;s like an expert in videography and photography and everything. He just like reshot everything for me and we&#8217;re reshooting all the like workout videos, because all the workout videos were just me shooting myself like doing moves and and we&#8217;ve broken down a bunch of programs and everything. But like I can&#8217;t I can&#8217;t thank Sal enough. The websites become, you know, really good quality compared to when I did it myself. He was like, dude, we got to make this. This looks real mom and pop shop. We got to, we got to fix this and I&#8217;m like, well, I, yeah, I did it myself on the computer on weekends, like with my daughter crawling all over me. 0:16:14 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroSo that&#8217;s pretty funny. You&#8217;ve got some great B roll with all the guys you work with and everything. 0:16:20 &#8211; Alex BennettIs he the one? 0:16:21 &#8211; Jeff Pelizzaroshooting your YouTube videos too. 0:16:24 &#8211; Alex BennettSo he shot all the B roll and he shot all the footage for the site. His team, like, did everything on the site but I&#8217;m I&#8217;m still, I&#8217;m shooting all my own YouTube stuff. Uh, he&#8217;s, he&#8217;s doing enough for me. I don&#8217;t want to ask him to do too much, you know no, it looks good. 0:16:39 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroIt looks good. I just kind of started. How long have you been doing the YouTube channel? 0:16:43 &#8211; Alex BennettNot long at all. I just started that. I mean I just started doing it seriously the last like month or so. 0:16:49 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroYeah, I, just I, because I just started to watch them and started seeing them pop up. Really good, though it&#8217;s cool to get an insight on some of the other stuff that you do, like you know, out on the soccer field doing some conditioning stuff, and that&#8217;s that&#8217;s something I was going to actually ask you about the conditioning that you do with your golfers, cause you know we see a lot of the, the stretch. You kind of moves in the, the stuff that everybody sees on Instagram. But you know you were talking about different conditioning. Especially you&#8217;re down in Florida the heat, um, you&#8217;ve got guys that are playing four days in a row but also practice rounds. So what are some of your go-tos when it is when you&#8217;re working on conditioning for your pros and then maybe also for just kind of the regular Joe? 0:17:27 &#8211; Alex BennettYeah, it&#8217;s uh, I mean, yeah, I started doing those. Those work I like because I think I did a video with like Ben Coles, who&#8217;s he was number one right now on the cornfairy money list. I did with Chandler Blanchet, who won PGA to rely on American money list. I just liked doing that cause I like giving the people kind of the behind the scenes. Look at these guys so they realized they&#8217;re just, they&#8217;re just normal every day, guys like everybody else. And we were doing like the little soccer challenge and stuff like that. But I I&#8217;m a big believer, especially like Chandler we were talking about he was playing in Tulum, mexico, for the tour championship which he won. But we were talking about like look, it&#8217;s going to be, you know, over a hundred degrees down there. Like let&#8217;s, let&#8217;s either do some sauna this week or let&#8217;s do some outdoor workouts, because you need to have some acclimation to that heat. And I mean credit to him, he did it. And then he goes down there and wins in extra holes and it&#8217;s like that. You know that stuff pays off. But that&#8217;s the stuff. I think people don&#8217;t really see like that level of oh, wow, okay, when these guys are going to play in a hot climate. They&#8217;re doing some acclimation to that hot climate before. I mean those guys are, they&#8217;re walking a minimum 72 holes. That&#8217;s just their. You know, tournament that&#8217;s not the practice rounds and everything like you said it&#8217;s. It&#8217;s definitely like a grueling sport that people don&#8217;t realize. But I mean I&#8217;m a big fan of more. So just in the gym, keeping the pace up when we&#8217;re doing our strength training Like I&#8217;m not, we&#8217;re not doing a ton of, especially in season, we&#8217;re not doing like a ton of power lifting where we&#8217;re going to have to take three to four minutes off in between reps. Most of the time I like to superset things. So guys are going for more exercise, right to the other exercise, back to the other exercise, and they&#8217;re not. You know, I mean when I have three to four guys in there, they definitely take a little more break and they&#8217;re they&#8217;re talking some crap to each other and talking about whatever game was on the night before, whatever that is. I&#8217;m all for that because that&#8217;s just camaraderie and guys enjoy it. But I&#8217;m more of a fan of just keeping the pace up in the gym, you know, having your specific movements. I&#8217;m not a big fan of running. I&#8217;ve just found that it just beats guys. I mean they just get beat up and no one&#8217;s in perfect, you know alignment and hardly any of these golfers have proper running motions or gates. So they go for like a long distance run and they&#8217;re like man my hips, killing me my knees, killing me my backs, you know so it&#8217;s. I just don&#8217;t do a lot of that stuff. I am a fan we have like a skier here, we&#8217;ve got the Techno Gym Curve Treadmill. I like getting guys doing some like sled pushes, even even lighter, quicker sled pushes. Where they&#8217;re, they&#8217;re maybe not moving a ton of weight, but they&#8217;re having to move it fast. I&#8217;m a big fan of that type of stuff. 0:20:09 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroYeah, I&#8217;m a. I&#8217;m in total agreement. As far as the running&#8217;s concerned, I think so many people lean on running it for conditioning or treadmill or whatever, just because it&#8217;s it&#8217;s easy to do. Right, it&#8217;s easy to just run. But to your point, especially for high level golfers that are earning a paycheck to send them out to condition and do that when their gate patterns might be off there they might do something that, just, you know, puts them out for the next week and they don&#8217;t necessarily need running capacity for for their golf, right. 0:20:41 &#8211; Alex BennettNo, I mean, I tell guys all the time the first, my first job is just not to injure you and and allow you not to get injured. So if there&#8217;s something like I have, guys show me like a you know Instagram clip, they&#8217;re like, oh man, look at this move, and I&#8217;m like, yeah, that&#8217;s great, but that guy&#8217;s a full-time crossfit athlete, like he&#8217;s not a golfer, he&#8217;s not going to play, you know, six weeks in a row and you know, and he doesn&#8217;t have he&#8217;s better shoulder mechanics than you or whatever it may be. So it&#8217;s like it&#8217;s it&#8217;s sometimes having to dial those guys back. They&#8217;re so competitive. It&#8217;s not all about pushing them. It&#8217;s sometimes being like, hey, let&#8217;s, let&#8217;s calm down a little bit, let&#8217;s not do that. That&#8217;s. That&#8217;s going to lead to some issues. So it&#8217;s definitely a different take relationship with those guys, though, too. 0:21:24 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroSpeak, if you would, to the to the point of how important it is to have a specific goal in mind. So, like you&#8217;ve got Billy Horschel, you&#8217;ve got Sam Ryder. These guys obviously their, their goal is specifically for the PGA tour. Now you might have John Smith that comes in and he&#8217;s looking to you know, lose some weight. He wants his golf game to get better. But how might it be different that when you&#8217;re working with somebody like that, where you know they&#8217;re looking a little bit more for general health and a little bit of weight loss, that also helps their game? 0:21:54 &#8211; Alex BennettYeah, I mean it&#8217;s huge. I mean you got to have I don&#8217;t want to say an end goal in mind, because I feel like there&#8217;s never an end. You&#8217;re always just trying to get better but you got to have something. You got to have those those steps along the way where you go. Oh, I am getting better. My, my swing speed is up three miles an hour. I just played three days in a row and I just noticed my back doesn&#8217;t hurt. I&#8217;ve had guys, I mean, that are just like I just want to be able to bend over and tie my shoe, you know, and it&#8217;s like I&#8217;ve got. They come into the gym after a month or so and they&#8217;re like hey, alex, look at this, and they&#8217;re like pumped, as if, you know, somebody just came back and won, won a PGA tour event. It&#8217;s like that&#8217;s a big deal of them just to be able to bend over and tie their shoe with no pain. So I mean everyone&#8217;s got different goals and everyone&#8217;s starting with, you know, on a different scale. And it&#8217;s important to like realize that when you&#8217;re training them that hey, billy horse was here, but I&#8217;m not going to be able to push this guy to that level or I&#8217;m not going to be able to push them as hard. And I mean that&#8217;s something I&#8217;ve noticed, like Sam Ryder. Sam Ryder worked together for I mean I want to say it&#8217;s it&#8217;s probably been five years, maybe, maybe over five years. And and like this season going into this season, I noticed a huge difference with him, just knowing. He was just very focused and he was like look, I want to make top 70. That&#8217;s my, that&#8217;s my goal, I&#8217;m going to work hard. And he came out of the gates. I mean he didn&#8217;t miss a single workout, he didn&#8217;t show up late, like. And then he came out of the gates. He played great and it was. It was nice to see because he&#8217;s always been so talented Everyone around here that plays with him knows how talented that guy is and to see it finally like coming to fruition and him putting in the right work and and really just zeroed in. And we&#8217;ve been saying we just shot this thing for the PGA tour. It&#8217;s been on the golf channel the past couple of days and he makes a joke about it. But we&#8217;ve been saying all off season. We&#8217;ve been saying all the season you got to keep checking the boxes. And he&#8217;s like, yeah, when I wake up, I got to, I got to hydrate and then I got to do my warmup. That&#8217;s checking boxes, like he&#8217;s got to take the steps to be great and it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s. He&#8217;s finally, you know he&#8217;s over 30. 0:23:56 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroAnd I think he&#8217;s like all right, it&#8217;s time for me to win, like it&#8217;s time for me to realize my full talent, and it&#8217;s fun to watch how much do you see that that little mental shift of even just the checking the boxes you know the process of, okay, I did this, I did this, I did this how has that seemed to impact his confidence level and just the way he carries himself? Because I know that, you know, you probably see with the juniors and anybody you work with, just when they start to to really see themselves doing the things that other people aren&#8217;t necessarily doing and they&#8217;re like, yeah, I&#8217;m, I&#8217;m doing this, I&#8217;m doing this, I&#8217;m doing this, it seems, in my experience, seems to make them carry themselves a little differently. Have you seen that in him and some of the other guys? 0:24:36 &#8211; Alex Bennett100%. Yeah, 100%. I&#8217;ve seen it. Just in the way he carries himself, You&#8217;re right, I mean he&#8217;s just much more confident. He knows, he&#8217;s putting in the work. So, like he knows his skill, can, can, just show, he&#8217;s not relying purely on talent. So I mean you definitely see a difference in the way he carries himself and he&#8217;s I mean he might be mad at me for for saying this, but in the years past he was always a guy who texts me on like, say a Thursday, and be like hey, I&#8217;m going to be back next week, Can you put me in Monday through Friday. So I&#8217;d put him in the schedule, you know I&#8217;d be fine. And then Monday morning would roll around and he was supposed to come in at 10 AM, at be like 10, 10, and I&#8217;d text him and be like, hey, you know where are you at. And he&#8217;d be like, oh dude, sorry, Like I&#8217;m in, I&#8217;m in Las Vegas right now, Like I&#8217;ll be back in a couple of days, you know. So this year he hasn&#8217;t done that at all and he&#8217;s just been, you know, super focused and I think he&#8217;s just finally like all right, it&#8217;s time for me to realize my full potential and it&#8217;s it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s fun to see. It&#8217;s been enjoyable to watch. 0:25:37 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroDo you get out and play with any of these guys at all? 0:25:40 &#8211; Alex BennettYeah, actually I just played a couple of months ago with Sam and Vince Kivello. I don&#8217;t know if you know Vince, he&#8217;s got his future tour card. He&#8217;s been on a medical. I don&#8217;t actually work with Vince, but he&#8217;s a. He&#8217;s a great guy and he&#8217;s around here, he&#8217;s a member at a Lanny Beach country club down here and we got out. We got out there and played and I was actually 400 through seven and Vince was like man, what, what made you you know what made you stop playing? Like, the game looks pretty solid. And I was like, oh, just just hang around, man, we still got some holes to go. Next thing, you know, you know, I ship a few drivers out of bounds into some houses. And he&#8217;s like, oh, okay, all right. 0:26:16 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroI would imagine, though, that going out with those guys and them seeing that you, you can actually play, you know you&#8217;re not just a just a fitness guy, you&#8217;re. You&#8217;re a fitness guy that knows the game, you know the body, you know that&#8217;s got to give them a lot of confidence in you, which, again, they they know like hey, I&#8217;m working with a guy, that that he&#8217;s got my back, and I know that what we&#8217;re doing is the right thing to do, to put my to, to put me at my highest level. 0:26:40 &#8211; Alex BennettYeah, I mean, I think it definitely helps. And I think it goes back to kind of what I said about sometimes you got to dial these guys back and it&#8217;s like, look, I&#8217;ve played, I&#8217;ve played a schedule where I&#8217;ve been on the road a lot and I&#8217;m trying to play my my best golf and I&#8217;m just not capable because my body&#8217;s not agreeing with the travel or the routine of playing that many days in a row. And I tell those guys, like, look, I felt those feelings before, I&#8217;ve had injuries, I&#8217;ve had back injuries, I&#8217;ve had shoulder injuries, I&#8217;ve had the wrist injury. And it&#8217;s like I&#8217;m going to set them up to where they&#8217;re, they&#8217;re healthy and they&#8217;re feeling good. We might not push it into the gym to the max, where they&#8217;re lifting as heavy weight, as you know, so-and-so, but I&#8217;m going to make sure that I&#8217;m setting them up for success. When it comes down to them being on the road for four to five to six weeks, I don&#8217;t want them I mean, they always come back a little beat up after being on the road that long but I want them to be able to play good golf deep into the season and feel like they can play consistent golf all season. So I think it helps being able to be a decent player and I mean I don&#8217;t get out to play as much as I used to and I mean we&#8217;ve got, we&#8217;ve got a kid now and she&#8217;s she&#8217;s almost three, so like weekends are definitely just kind of hanging out with the family, so I definitely don&#8217;t get to play as much. But I think I think those guys appreciate that I can actually, you know, swing the club and I know what I&#8217;m talking about a little bit when it comes to swinging the club and and I work, I work with a lot of different tour players that work with a lot of different coaches and I think it helps the swing coaches be able to call me and go hey, you know, we&#8217;re really working on him using the ground a little bit better, getting a little more internal rotation into his left hip. He&#8217;s kind of bailing out. You know me just knowing immediately, like what they&#8217;re talking about. 0:28:16 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroWhen you&#8217;re working with the coaches and obviously you work very closely with Todd and the staff there, which I want to hear a little bit more about that dynamic too but when you&#8217;re working with a player and you do know like, hey, this guy needs, are the coaches saying like this is the move we&#8217;re working on, these are the things that we&#8217;re seeing, how do you implement you know what you&#8217;re doing in the fitness world, in the fitness side of things, into the skills or the mechanics of it? You know there&#8217;s there&#8217;s a lot of people and again my own personal experience people come in what&#8217;s a good exercise for this? You know what&#8217;s a good golf exercise? And it&#8217;s not quite that simple, right? It doesn&#8217;t translate directly from the cable machine over to to the 100% to the golf course. Yeah. 0:28:59 &#8211; Alex BennettYeah, I mean I just I just remembered I got a call, got back, actually a coach that called me earlier that I didn&#8217;t call back but he so like we have a player that&#8217;s on corn fray tour. He&#8217;s had a really good season. Um, john Scott Ratten is the coach&#8217;s name and he&#8217;s out of congressional. Really good guy, really good coach. And Jimmy Stanger is the player and he he started to see me this off season. He had a lot of like back pain and it was a lot of stuff where I didn&#8217;t even need to know the golf swing because I was just like listen, like we got to clean all this up. He&#8217;s got some issues Mechanically. He&#8217;s not got the right activations, he doesn&#8217;t use the right muscles at the right time. Um, so we need to clean this up before I even, like start thinking about golf swing and what he needs to do differently to help his body. But he&#8217;s a great guy. I mean he&#8217;ll, he&#8217;ll FaceTime me, he&#8217;ll show me video and like a good thing with Jimmy Stanger is kind of similar. Like he wasn&#8217;t, his left leg was extending way too early in the swing, so all his rotational force was pretty much just going straight up the chain into his back. Um, he wasn&#8217;t, you know, absorb it. He wasn&#8217;t using the ground to help him break. There was no absorption of that power. And it was left leg. His left glute was like non-existent. Um, so we did a lot of work just getting his glute medius better, getting his left glute better, getting him to use like his quad and hammy and glute when he&#8217;s coming down into the downswing. So, like, when I look at a guy like that, I&#8217;m going to go all right, we&#8217;re going to do a lot of split stance work, you know, especially focusing on that left leg forward and having him, you know, thoracically rotate into that hip while he keeps his big toe down. What I find a lot of times with those guys is they just want to. As soon as they start rotating into it, they just want to lift their big toe. It&#8217;s like a kind of a cop out of actually using their glue to rotate into it. Those fashion lines with your big toe and your glue to have a lot of late, like you know, a lot of correlation. Um, so I really get those guys like I&#8217;ll put a band under their big toe and pull it and I&#8217;m like, hey, don&#8217;t, don&#8217;t, like you know, don&#8217;t let that big toe come up cause his band is going to hit me in the wrist. So things like that I&#8217;ll tie into when I, when I hear from a golf coach, hey, we need to get him better. And I see in the assessment like, hey, this is a direct correlation to the pain he&#8217;s feeling as well. Um, so it&#8217;s always good too when the swing instructors, you know eyes, are matching up with what I&#8217;m seeing in the assessment. It makes everybody&#8217;s job a little easier, makes my job easier, and then I can make his job easier. But but that&#8217;s where I, you know, I get. I get some crap on social media when I use, like a disc or a bozu ball, or some people are like, oh, this stuff, and it&#8217;s like not everything is about creating power. Like when I, obviously, when I put a disc under someone&#8217;s foot, they&#8217;re not going to create a ton of ground force, like they&#8217;re using the disc, but like with him, his left leg wasn&#8217;t very active. So I want to put a disc on, I want to put some instability and make him use that left leg to stabilize as he rotates. So it&#8217;s like there&#8217;s different uses for things. Like if I had a guy and I&#8217;m like, oh, we&#8217;re going to try to create ground force. I&#8217;m not going to be having them doing cleans on a, on a bozu ball, obviously, you know. So it&#8217;s like I love social media and I hate it at the same time, cause it&#8217;s like I&#8217;m not going to explain everything I&#8217;m doing it and I&#8217;m not going to put all the steps that it took to get to this spot or why we&#8217;re doing it, but I&#8217;ll explain a little bit. But you always get those people that jump on there and they&#8217;re like oh, what are you doing? It&#8217;s like just relax, relax. 0:32:12 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroYeah, yeah, social media can be the best and the worst, for sure. Yeah, yeah. So, then do you then have any place for them to to maybe swing and like feel that immediately in in their golf swing? I mean, obviously you have a place to do it. Do they go out to the range? Do they just do some swings in the gym? And how do you kind of take that? Okay, here&#8217;s. Here&#8217;s what we just did, we just activated this, we got this, this work in your feeling this. Now do you then have them feel that in their golf swing? 0:32:37 &#8211; Alex BennettYeah, 100%, I mean we&#8217;ll have. We always take lunch here from like 12 to one, and a lot of times I&#8217;ll have guys from 1230 to one. We&#8217;ll be in the bay doing like swing catalyst, trying to get them to feel like we&#8217;ll do a lot of cues and activations and then have them swing and a lot I mean pretty much every time they go. Oh yeah, all right, I see what you&#8217;re saying now, like they connect it. I mean these guys are all good athletes too. That&#8217;s. The thing is, is you give them the proper cue? They&#8217;re going to do it in the swing, like they got to where they&#8217;re at for a reason. When it comes to the, the amateurs, or like the retired guy that&#8217;s trying to get a little bit better, it might take a little more coaching and a little more time, but it&#8217;s the same idea. Like I&#8217;ll give them some cues. Be like I can&#8217;t tell you how many times I&#8217;ve gone and given a player a cue and they go oh, that&#8217;s supposed to be like this. I&#8217;m supposed to feel like my glue back here and I&#8217;m like, yeah, you&#8217;re not supposed to just feel your hip flexor when you rotate, but it&#8217;s great. I mean, I&#8217;m very lucky to be at a place like this that allows me to just go down to the bay and have guys hit balls and, like Carl you on, he&#8217;s also. He&#8217;s a PGA Tour player I work with. He&#8217;s a guy he loves just like going to the bay. He&#8217;ll do a full workout in the bay in the heat and he&#8217;ll just be like, hey, let&#8217;s, you know, let&#8217;s bring a few bands, let&#8217;s bring a few med balls, and I&#8217;m going to bring my clubs and, like you know, we&#8217;ll do a couple sets of some exercises. Then it&#8217;ll hit 10 balls and he&#8217;s just trying to. He&#8217;s a very feel based guy and he&#8217;s just trying to feel that connection and same thing. Like that&#8217;s a good thing. Todd Anderson is his swing coach and that&#8217;s that&#8217;s. The other good thing is. So, you know, todd can just pop in and be like, oh, I like that, that&#8217;s a good feel, I like. You know, whatever it may be, he doesn&#8217;t always like the feels I try to come up with, but I like to think he&#8217;s pretty open minded about him for sure. 0:34:18 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroWell, I think that&#8217;s what&#8217;s really cool is having you guys so close there that you can bounce those ideas off of each other, and I assume you guys have all kinds of technology that you use to mention this swing catalyst and what else. Do you guys have there, any biomechanics kind of stuff and any biomechanics specialists there that are helping with some of those things? 0:34:37 &#8211; Alex BennettSo we&#8217;re currently we&#8217;re currently getting gears, which will be great, yeah, which will be great. We had KVEST and we we ended up kind of getting rid of the KVEST. I mean it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s a great product. We just had issues with it getting like calibrated. And people are paying, you know, they&#8217;re paying a lot of money to come here for an hour and it&#8217;s like we don&#8217;t want to be calibrating something for 15, 20 minutes or them hitting one ball on us. How to you know, recalibrating. So we kind of went away from that. We&#8217;ve been, I mean, we really use swing cat a lot and then obviously we use video and track man. We&#8217;ve got all that good stuff, but the, the gears, will be a great, a great addition for sure. Have you worked with? 0:35:17 &#8211; Jeff Pelizzarothat at all before we have. 0:35:21 &#8211; Alex BennettI&#8217;m currently doing a lot of education just about like biomechanics and the gears and how to read all the data and everything like that and I find it. I love that stuff. I&#8217;m like a geek about that stuff, so I&#8217;m looking forward to getting it. It&#8217;s going to be exciting. It&#8217;s it&#8217;s cool to I. Right now I&#8217;m doing a bunch of stuff with a baseball guy just talking about rotation and power and it&#8217;s it&#8217;s cool. It&#8217;s cool to see the differences. I think there&#8217;s a lot of correlations in baseball and there&#8217;s also not a lot of correlations in baseball. It&#8217;s just totally different spine angles and you use your slings a little differently, but but it&#8217;s cool to see just different perspectives on how to create speed and how to create power. 0:35:59 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroYeah, I heard a great quote a couple of days ago, I think it was a. Have you ever heard of Dr Kwan? Yeah, and he said something about you. Know, movement sequencing is way more important than muscle conditioning when it comes to creating speed, creating efficiency. And and and I&#8217;m like you I want to learn so much more about the biomechanics piece of it and understanding the sequencing a little bit better and just watching some of those things which I&#8217;m sure you&#8217;re ingrained in completely with the biomechanics research you&#8217;re doing now or learning that you&#8217;re doing about, and speak to that a little bit, about how you try to develop some sequencing and what you see with your tour pros compared to some of the amateurs Because I know what I see is amateurs it seems like there&#8217;s so much effort being put forth in our swings versus the pros. They make it look so easy but yeah, they&#8217;re obviously swinging way faster, hitting a ball way further. 0:36:54 &#8211; Alex BennettYeah, the actually it&#8217;s funny. You said the thing I just shot with Sam Ryder. We were talking about how Sam likes to do a lot of dynamic work before he plays to improve that sequencing and really get those like fast twitch muscles going. And I was saying, yeah, sam tends to get quick, but quick can be slow. And the lady was like the producer was like, well, wait, what are you talking about? Quick can&#8217;t be slow. I&#8217;m like, well, if his hips get too quick and his arms get left behind, it&#8217;s going to be slow because he&#8217;s going to stall at impact and try to catch up with the face. She was like shut, your mind was I don&#8217;t. I don&#8217;t know if she ever really understood what I was saying, but it&#8217;s 100% true. I mean, there&#8217;s so many players and you hear it from amateurs all the time that they&#8217;ll come down and like, watch some of our tour players just hit some balls and they&#8217;ve got the track man numbers on the board and they&#8217;ll be like he does not look like he&#8217;s swinging at 120. You know, it looks like he&#8217;s swinging at 100. And I was like, well, it&#8217;s because the sequencing is perfect, you know, and it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s so efficient. And you&#8217;re right. You see all these amateurs that are trying to create a lot of speed and you see them getting real like herky jerky at the top and it&#8217;s like, yeah, but when you&#8217;re trying to get the ball to the top, what you&#8217;re doing, an impact and especially if you get real tilted, you&#8217;re actually slowing down at impact. Your max speed is happening back here somewhere, so you&#8217;re not actually creating that much speed when you hit the ball. And it&#8217;s what I found. My favorite thing in the gym is the Kaiser. I use the Kaiser functional trainer nonstop and what I find is when I have players do different types of chops whether it be like a split stance, choppers, you know, just a regular stance is you&#8217;re going to sequence it because you have to pull tension. So I do a lot of work with that Kaiser, where I make guys do a lot of different chops. I have a, an alignment rod with a golf grip on it and I make guys do a lot of like quick swings and I go we need to hear this whoosh, you know, at impact, or or, if it&#8217;s, if we&#8217;re working on specific stuff, I&#8217;ll have them be like all right, I need to hear this whoosh back here and I need this left foot to kind of hop. At the same time you need to time those up, sequence those up. So I mean there&#8217;s a lot of different ways and I try to. The good thing with the Kaiser is, you know it gives you the, gives you the power output per rep. So guys can really see like, oh, that was a fast wrap and I felt more pressure into my big toe or felt more pressure in the ball in my foot when I did that. So it&#8217;s like those instinct cues. And then with the you know, the alignment rod, with the grip on it, it&#8217;s the same thing. They can hear the whoosh when it happens and it&#8217;s like an instinct cue. They go oh okay, I did this a little different that time and that was faster this time. So I like, I like things that give guys instant feedback. 0:39:26 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroIt&#8217;s almost like having a fitness launch monitor right, like being able to read the tension, or even just the audio cues, of being able to flip your driver over and swing, you know, with the handle and hear those same kind of whooshes and 100% and being able to do it in different spots means that you&#8217;re doing different things with your body, right? So just building up that awareness, absolutely. Let&#8217;s take a second to thank our partners over at LivePure. Livepure is the number one hydration drink that you need on the golf course, especially when it&#8217;s getting hot out there. You&#8217;re sweating, you&#8217;re playing lots of golf. You need something more than just water in your water bottle. So Dr Troy Van Biesen and his team formulated one of the greatest hydration products out there that is no sugar added, all natural ingredients and the top quality PGA Tour Pros, champions that you know are all using this on the golf course. So go over to LivePurecom that&#8217;s L-I-V-P-U-Rcom Check out all their products. You can use code 18STRONG and let LivePure champion your day Again with kind of more the not Tour Pros that you work with. But you know the people that just come and see you on a regular basis the country club guys, the. Do you have people that just come in like for a day they&#8217;re in town, they&#8217;re like, hey, I want to go to the performance center, and you know people that drop in like that. 0:40:54 &#8211; Alex BennettThat is. Yeah, that&#8217;s the cool thing about being here is you just never know who&#8217;s going to come in and you never know where they&#8217;re traveling from or whatever it may be. I mean we just did a big talk with 24 players from what&#8217;s called Pathway to Progressions. It&#8217;s a PGA Tour initiative to help players with diverse backgrounds to get noticed by college coaches, and I mean we do a lot of these types of clinics and stuff like that. And some of these clinics you&#8217;re like literally teaching people how to hold a club and like they come up to the gym and they&#8217;re like I didn&#8217;t know I was doing fitness, I don&#8217;t want to do fitness, and it&#8217;s like it can be brutal. But these guys, I mean I started with them and I was talking with them and they asked some like really good questions and I&#8217;m like man, these guys, I think these guys are pretty good players. And then, yeah, well and behold, we go out there and all our coaches were like man, these guys are like really good, these are like no joke. And it was cool to see, because I mean we had a couple of guys from like Argentina, that we had kids from Mexico. I mean people were coming from California, texas. They&#8217;re from all over the place and it was just it was cool to see how many. I mean it&#8217;s a cool thing that tour is doing, obviously, but it&#8217;s amazing they were just talking about a lot of these guys don&#8217;t get to play in like AJGA, so they don&#8217;t get noticed by coaches and they&#8217;re sending them out to Nevada to go in front of, like the coaches showcase and I mean it was cool because these guys are. I mean they&#8217;re insane. One of the guys shot 68 on stadium from the tips. Whoa, it was like and he just played in the US junior. I mean he&#8217;s, he&#8217;s, he&#8217;s a stud and it&#8217;s like he has no college offers and you&#8217;re like man it&#8217;s. But nobody, nobody&#8217;s heard of him, nobody knows him. 0:42:24 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroSo, but that&#8217;s a cool thing. 0:42:27 &#8211; Alex BennettBut it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s definitely. I definitely have people, just normal people, that come in for a couple of days and they want to get an assessment done and they want like a quick you know program or two that they can do when they go back home, and I mean some of those it&#8217;s. I&#8217;ve met some really cool people that have come from all over the place to do those little like things. They follow me on Instagram or they just Google the performance center or whatever it may be. It&#8217;s always, I always enjoy it, I that&#8217;s. I&#8217;ve had people ask me like oh you know, would you ever just want to work with tour players? And I always say no, because I enjoy just meeting always different people with different backgrounds, the different experiences. It&#8217;s like it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s the fun part of my job. I know every hour is going to be a little different. You know that&#8217;s cool. 0:43:08 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroObviously, I know everybody that shows up is going to have their own individual needs. You know they&#8217;re going to walk out of there with their own individualized program. But for the people that are listening, that are just looking for a couple things, you know, getting that, that idea of the low hanging fruit, what are, what are some of the biggest things that you see on a consistent basis, not for everybody, but you know that a lot of people are going to benefit from whether that be some sort of mobility or some sort of a little bit of a, some sort of mobility drill or, you know, warm up wise or anything along those lines. 0:43:37 &#8211; Alex BennettYeah, I mean, I think the biggest thing I see is people don&#8217;t realize how weak they are when it comes to lateral movement. So I&#8217;m a big fan of just giving someone a band and putting it in their golf bag and going, hey, just put this band, you know, over your shins, over your feet, over your quads, and just walk sideways and keep your toes straight, don&#8217;t let them flare out, don&#8217;t let them flare in. And it&#8217;s amazing to me like when people take a little band, that&#8217;s not much tension and how much their hips start burning and how we then they go Whoa, like I would have never guessed this. And I go yeah, you know, golf is a very lateral sport and we&#8217;re very linear people and when you don&#8217;t have that lateral stability, you&#8217;re going to have a hell of a time playing consistent golf or creating any speed. So I think that&#8217;s that&#8217;s like the the most common thing I see with people that have never done like much you know in the fitness background as far as when it comes to go off or or sport specific fitness is just how weak they are laterally. And then I have a lot of my tour players that have bands on their quads and they&#8217;ll be jumping side to side and I&#8217;ll make them keep the width between their knees. And and I mean A lot of my guys are good at it now. But when we first started there like how am I, how are my hips burning this bad, I&#8217;m like, well, we need to. We need to build them up, man. 0:44:49 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroIt&#8217;s, it&#8217;s very surprising, and you know, back to the biomechanics, I mean People don&#8217;t realize how much of the the lateral forces impact the way that you rotate. We think everything&#8217;s rotation, rotation, but it&#8217;s like, no, there&#8217;s got to be lateral to create that right absolutely, absolutely. 0:45:06 &#8211; Alex BennettAnd I mean the other thing I see a lot of it&#8217;s just people not being able to like thoracically extend. So I mean I just I one of my favorite stretches just having someone take like a dialer or a pole and just put in their hands On top and just extending their arms straight, sinking their chest down towards the ground. And it&#8217;s like I mean, everyone I have is like, oh my god, this feels amazing and it&#8217;s like, yeah, it&#8217;s. It&#8217;s funny how such a simple stretch is something that, like, most people have just never done and you&#8217;re like, huh, I mean, but that&#8217;s like getting some lat length and like being able to get some extension out of the thoracic. Just everybody&#8217;s so rounded and they always, you know, they&#8217;re sitting there holding their phone, they&#8217;re looking down and so that&#8217;s. Those are two that I just see with everybody, that I think everybody should just do. 0:45:50 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroAnd to your point like that&#8217;s why getting assessed can be so important. Yeah not even necessarily to get so specific on what you need, but like just to open your eyes. That holy cow I. I figured this stuff should be pretty easy and I can&#8217;t do it right like the bands around your ankles, how tight are your hamstrings? You know, can you touch your toes? Can you? You know how rounded are your shoulders, all of those little things. It&#8217;s amazing when you get put in a position that you haven&#8217;t done in a long time. You&#8217;ve been sitting at a desk and then all of a sudden, you&#8217;re, you&#8217;re tested and put in this Scenario where you you thought you&#8217;d be able to do something easily. Balance is one of those things, too, that I see a lot Like. People just can&#8217;t, can&#8217;t believe how bad their balance is they can&#8217;t stand on one leg. 0:46:34 &#8211; Alex BennettYeah, exactly to your point before. 0:46:35 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroLike, balances, balances everything. 0:46:38 &#8211; Alex BennettBalancing you know, your, your corrections that you need, but also just balance to maintain yourself in the golf swing 100% and I think too, like I think parents One of the things I see that&#8217;s most common that parents get wrong is the hamstring test. Like they&#8217;re always like my son, he can&#8217;t even touch his shins, like what? And I&#8217;m like, well, you know, my first questions always have they grown a lot in the past? You know eight months and they&#8217;re like, oh yeah, they&#8217;ve grown, you know, three, four inches. And I&#8217;m like, well, that&#8217;s why, like the muscles so over stretched from the growth spurt that they can&#8217;t, they can&#8217;t. I&#8217;m like, just, you know, let&#8217;s do some active mobility and things like that, but let&#8217;s not just how to have them hold a hamstring stretch for a while and plus, you know, like you don&#8217;t want to take that, that speed away from them either, that quick twitch Speed. So I think that I mean that&#8217;s one of the things like low-hanging fruits that I see a lot with parents that they get wrong with, like their junior golfers is they&#8217;re like, oh, my son&#8217;s so tight. And I&#8217;m like, well, you know, he&#8217;s grown a lot, so he&#8217;s the muscles are overstretched already. But it&#8217;s also, you know, let&#8217;s not, let&#8217;s not take if the kids got a lot of fast twitch muscle, let&#8217;s not take it away from them. Let&#8217;s not turn them into a yogi. So it&#8217;s like what&#8217;s like? Like you&#8217;re saying, let&#8217;s do an assessment, let&#8217;s know the individual and what they&#8217;re good at and let&#8217;s I&#8217;m a big fan of Whatever you&#8217;re good at, let&#8217;s make it even better. And then if there&#8217;s some issues, you know limitations let&#8217;s obviously address those, but let&#8217;s not ignore what you&#8217;re really good at and try to make these limitations a strength, because I just feel like that never ends up in making the player actually better. 0:48:09 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroThat&#8217;s a that&#8217;s a great point. I think it&#8217;s a natural default for people to think that everything in golf has to be about flexibility and being able to. Rotate and get in these positions and and you&#8217;re absolutely right that you know if you&#8217;ve got, especially if you have that fast twitch speed that&#8217;s the one thing you definitely don&#8217;t want to rob a kid of yeah, let&#8217;s not do that. All right, man, before we close it up, I got some typical questions we ask everybody that comes on the show. So yeah, first and foremost, caddy shaker, happy Gilmore. 0:48:36 &#8211; Alex BennettSo I&#8217;m definitely a happy Gilmore guy. I mean I was, I was born in 1990 and I mean I just feel like Adam Sandler was like my childhood. You know all those movies. I like caddy shack it&#8217;s a classic movie and it&#8217;s funny. But I&#8217;m definitely a happy Gilmore guy. 0:48:52 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroIf you could pick a walk-up song to the first tee box, what&#8217;s your walk-up song? 0:48:55 &#8211; Alex BennettOh, man, this was a tough one for me. I Was. I was bouncing back and forth, I mean I always. You know, I just I Grew up listening to rap, my whole life pretty much, and I grew up in metro Detroit playing, playing all these types of sports and that&#8217;s just what we listen to, and it was. It was either between Something I mean any song on get rich or die, try and 50 cent, or I&#8217;m a big fan of the song blessings by by big shot and Drake. That&#8217;s like one of my favorite songs, so I&#8217;d say I&#8217;d say one of those two love it? 0:49:28 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroIs there a book that that has meant a lot to you or that has really inspired you that you&#8217;d like to recommend to either your players or just to anyone in general? 0:49:37 &#8211; Alex BennettUm, that was a tough. I mean I feel like I like to read. I mean I&#8217;ve read so many good books. Chris Doris is like a really good author. That&#8217;s not, that&#8217;s not well known. He&#8217;s a good mental coach. He&#8217;s got a lot of good books like daily affirmations. Um, I mean, he&#8217;s got one. I mean it&#8217;s all about just kind of finding your purpose and chasing. I can&#8217;t. I&#8217;m blanking on the name right now it&#8217;s an older book. Um, chris Doris is a really good author. I love I just love his, his mental coach work as well. And then I&#8217;m reading a book called inner excellence right now. I think it&#8217;s jim murphy. 0:50:17 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroYeah, I got it right on the shelf here. 0:50:19 &#8211; Alex BennettReally good book. It&#8217;s awesome. Really good book, yeah. So I mean, right now I&#8217;d say that&#8217;s the best book and that&#8217;s one that I&#8217;m definitely recommending to my players, for sure, is that is that book. 0:50:28 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroThat&#8217;s a. That&#8217;s a huge one. I know that, like Shuffler has mentioned that book, some of the top level guys have mentioned that book and and just taking themselves to the next level. So, yeah, it&#8217;s. It&#8217;s unreal, really cool. Um, all right, what&#8217;s your dream for some? If you could pick a for some to go play golf with, could be anybody celebrities, historical figures, whoever who you picking. 0:50:49 &#8211; Alex BennettYeah, um, I would definitely say Michael Jordan grew up a huge Michael Jordan fan. Um, man, this was a Steve Iserman, Just I mean, you know, captain the red wings. My whole childhood I played hockey. My whole life is my favorite sport, so he was definitely like my hero growing up. Um, and the third one was was tough. I think I would just, I think I would just bring my dad, because I know you&#8217;d love to play with steve y and Michael Jordan, so I think I would just have to bring him. You know, very cool. 0:51:21 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroAll right if we had the 18STRONG jet fueled up. We&#8217;re like Alex, we&#8217;re going anywhere you want to go. You got a free ticket where you heading. What would? 0:51:29 &#8211; Alex Bennettgolf course, oh, man, I mean, I feel like the automatic answer is augusta, just because it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s just this hollow plate, or you just, you know, you just want to go play, you just want to walk the grounds. Um, but man, I&#8217;ll tell you what I would. I would love to go to band and dunes. I&#8217;ve never been out there. I love, like I love, the pacific northwest and I&#8217;ve never really been there, but I just love the way it looks and I love mountains and I&#8217;m more of a mountain guy than an ocean guy, which kind of sucks living in florida because there&#8217;s not, there&#8217;s not even a hill here. But but I think I&#8217;d go. If it&#8217;s not augusta, I&#8217;d go somewhere out there. 0:52:09 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroThat&#8217;s definitely on my list also. All right, I&#8217;m gonna throw another one in here. Um, that&#8217;s not on our normal list, but since you&#8217;re a tpc sawgrass. What&#8217;s what&#8217;s your hardest hole there and what&#8217;s your favorite hole there? 0:52:22 &#8211; Alex BennettOh man, that&#8217;s a good one man, mine. I mean, dude, my nemesis is number five. I&#8217;m just always, or you know what, actually, I take that back. My nemesis is number 14. Yeah, the par 4 with the water on the left, um oh yeah, I&#8217;ve just. I&#8217;ve made some birdies on five at least before teen. I just feel like I&#8217;ve never played well and I feel like the the wind is always just howling in your face and it&#8217;s just an absolute monster. I played a tournament here when I was a kid I was a junior in high school and my parents were standing on the car path about 30 yards right of the fairway and I almost killed them. I mean, it was like I just bailed out harder than you could ever bail out, and then the next day they were standing even further right and I almost got them again. I&#8217;ll never forget it. And it was just like my dad&#8217;s like hey, like what are you doing? There were 50 yards from the fairway and you&#8217;re always getting us and I was like man, I don&#8217;t know. I, this tbox just doesn&#8217;t add up to me. So I would say that hole for sure, and then my favorite hole out here, I mean I love, I love 16 that par 5. I think it&#8217;s just a cool hole and it&#8217;s it&#8217;s like you know you&#8217;re During the players. I think it&#8217;s one of my favorite holes because it&#8217;s the best view of 17, so it&#8217;s like you get, you get the, you get the stadium atmosphere as you&#8217;re walking down 16 and it&#8217;s like you&#8217;re just looking across the water at what&#8217;s to come and it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s just a cool, cool atmosphere. 0:53:52 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroI totally agree. So I had a chance to play it the day after the players and I can remember, like driving up on 16, you kind of get past the grandstands in the fairway on the right hand side and then all of a sudden the water opens up. You see, 17, you got that big tree on the left hand side and it&#8217;s like man. It doesn&#8217;t get any better than this. 0:54:10 &#8211; Alex BennettIt was no, it&#8217;s awesome, so it&#8217;s awesome, all right. 0:54:14 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroAnd then last one. Is there a social media account that you think the 18STRONG crew should go out and follow? Obviously, you&#8217;re doing an amazing job, posting a ton of great content. Is there somebody else that you&#8217;d like to follow, that you&#8217;d recommend? 0:54:25 &#8211; Alex BennettThis one. This one was really tough for me. I I feel like there&#8217;s just so many good golf fitness Guys out there now like I feel like if I name them, I&#8217;m gonna leave some people out. 0:54:37 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroUm doesn&#8217;t that to be golf fitness could be, could be a totally unrelated account too. You want to go there, rat. 0:54:43 &#8211; Alex BennettOh, that&#8217;s tough. I mean honestly it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s. It&#8217;s gonna sound like a cop out, but when I&#8217;m not like posting stuff, I really try not to scroll. 0:54:52 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroOh smart man much very smart man. 0:54:55 &#8211; Alex BennettI know I. I just find the more I scroll on social media the Less happy I am. So it&#8217;s like I really I really try. If I&#8217;m not on there, I&#8217;m not and I know I have there&#8217;s a lot of posts I probably should like from friends of mine that I haven&#8217;t liked and I always tell like a lot of my Close friends. No, I just don&#8217;t really go on social media. When I&#8217;m, I post and then I just kind of try to get off of it and I&#8217;ll respond to like comments on my page and stuff like that. But I just try to, I just try not to like, just start scrolling. Um, but man, there&#8217;s I. I mean I follow so many good golf. I mean you know all the golf fitness guys and I mean the ando, uh, andos of the world, um, athletic golf fitness, Jonathan Alvelos, I mean there&#8217;s just so many. Yeah, lots of good ones out there. 0:55:43 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroLots of good, yeah, well, speaking of which, tell everybody where they can follow you, where&#8217;s the best place website wise, social media wise all that. 0:55:51 &#8211; Alex BennettSo so website and social media is just ab fitness and golf. Uh, youtube is alex Bennett fitness and golf. Um yeah, that&#8217;s, that&#8217;s where to find me excellent. 0:56:05 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroWell, alex, thank you so much for coming on today. It&#8217;s finally nice to you know, connect and get a chance to chat, and I&#8217;m sure we&#8217;ll be chatting much more in the future. I love what you&#8217;re doing. I love the work that you do. Um, get some of those guys, some some wins, out on tour and we&#8217;ll be seeing much more of you. 0:56:21 &#8211; Alex BennettYeah, I appreciate it, man. Anytime I had a good time. 0:56:23 &#8211; Jeff PelizzaroYou got it brother awesome. Thanks for joining us this week on the 18STRONG podcast with alex bennett. If you want any more information that we talked about in the show, any of the links to his social media or any of the other Topps we talked about, go to 18strongcom. This is episode number 351 and you&#8217;ll find it all right there. We&#8217;ll catch up again with you next week with another great guest. Train hard, practice smart, play better golf. Transcribed by https://podium.page

Guest: Justin Bryant, Former Professional Golfer; Founder of The Good BogeyHost: Jeff PelizzaroEpisode Number: 350Podcast: The 18STRONG Podcast Summary In this episode, Jeff Pelizzaro sits down with Justin Bryant, a former professional golfer who transitioned back to amateur status. Justin works full-time for Rapsodo Golf, helpong them develop some of the most cutting-edge mobile launch monitors on the market. They discuss Justin&#8217;s journey, the challenges of going from pro to amateur, and how he balances work, family, and competitive golf. Justin explains how the new Rapsodo MLM2PRO has helped him dial in his game, resulting in several successes on the Amateur/Mid-Am level this year (including punching his ticket to the 2023 US Mid-Am). They also discuss Justin&#8217;s artistic outlet/brand, The Good Bogey, which is quickly becoming a very recognizable brand making waves in the golf world (including how some golfers are even tattooing his designs on themselves ????). Main Topics Transition from Pro to Amateur The process and challenges of reverting back to amateur status. The role of the USGA in this transition. Balancing Life and Golf How Justin manages work, family, and competitive golf. The impact of COVID-19 on his career decisions. The Good Bogey Brand The origin and growth of Justin&#8217;s brand. The unique designs and the community around it. Competitive Mindset Justin&#8217;s approach to competitive golf, both as a pro and an amateur. The importance of setting achievable goals. National Club Championship Justin&#8217;s experience and victory at the National Club Championship. How it has fueled his competitive spirit. Resources Mentioned LINKSOUL: The official brand of apparel for 18STRONG. Get 20% off Conclusion Justin Bryant provides valuable insights into the world of competitive golf, sharing his experiences and challenges in both the professional and amateur circuits. Whether you&#8217;re an aspiring golfer or a seasoned veteran, this episode offers a unique perspective on what it takes to succeed in the game. Want the full episode transcript? (click the &#8220;+&#8221; ????????) Jeff Pelizzaro: [00:00:00] The 18STRONG Podcast, episode number 350 with Justin Bryant of The Good Bogey. What&#8217;s up guys? Welcome back to The 18STRONG Podcast, where we are here to help you build a stronger game. I&#8217;m Jeff Pelizzaro, your host, and this week we have my good buddy, Justin Bryant, on the podcast. Justin is a former professional golfer, turned amateur again, and is a very highly competitive golfer here in St. Louis. Also works for Rap Soto, so we get to talk about the new MLM2PRO. We get to talk about how he uses it and how a lot of different golfers. are using the MLM2PRO to help their games and really what the [00:01:00] transition has been like for him going from professional to playing amateur, again, balancing, you know, working family life, having kids still being able to practice and play competitively. And then we get into his brand, the good bogey, and where that name came from, the designs that he&#8217;s putting out and where that all started and how he&#8217;s. Growing that brand as well. And even how some people have good bogey illustrations tattooed on their arms or somewhere on their body, which is kind of crazy to hear that that&#8217;s, that&#8217;s the case. So before we get into our conversation with Justin, just want to say a quick thanks to our sponsors over at Link Soul. Link Soul has been our partner for a long time and they are our official. Brand of apparel that we wear both on the golf course, off the golf course. I was just up in Michigan this past weekend. And whether it be being on the beach, whether it be on the golf course with my son, we were all decked out in our Linksoul gear. We have all of our buddies in our mandatory Golf Friday crew, which was also something started by Linksoul. And now we&#8217;re really bringing that [00:02:00] brand onto the links here in St. Louis, which is pretty cool. So go to 18strong. com slash Linksoul and you can get 20% off on anything in your cart. So again, 18STRONG. com slash link soul. Now let&#8217;s get into our conversation with Justin. All right. So just want to kind of get an idea of going from pro to an amateur. What does that process look like? And then we&#8217;ll kind of get into, you know, how your processes as far as practice and competitions and how that&#8217;s all changing. better, worse for the game or, and all that good stuff. But just the transition of going from pro to amateur. When did that happen? Justin Bryant: Yeah. So in 2019, uh, I was playing professional still, um, trying to get on the corn ferry tour. It might&#8217;ve, I think it was the corn ferry, maybe web. com at the time. Um, but going through Q school there and I missed. Uh, getting to final stage, which at least gets you like status on, on the Khorne Ferry tour of some kind. Uh, it bases off your finish, but you really want to [00:03:00] at least get to final stage. Um, and I missed that by a couple shots. Uh, can&#8217;t remember, tried to block that out of my memory. Um, but then it was kind of a moment where. My wife and I were trying to figure out kind of, you know, what&#8217;s life going to look like. We had two kids, my game felt really good, but kind of life had progressed. Um, it was in my early thirties. I don&#8217;t know how old I was at that time, but, uh, early thirties and, um, then kind of COVID hit. Um, which shut down all the tours, they kind of said no Q School the following year, so your status was kind of frozen for, for a year, which some players that was maybe beneficial, some it was kind of, you know, not. Um, for me, I felt like it was a good transition, so. Still didn&#8217;t know if I was going to reapply for amateur status or not, but it was kind of in my head. Uh, didn&#8217;t know what I wanted to do. Um, but I knew I wanted to stay competitive and realistically kind of looking at the landscape of events. I was a realistic way to play. Um, I didn&#8217;t want to kind of get that PGA certification to teach. [00:04:00] Um, So I was like, I&#8217;m going to end up playing like Monday, like two Monday qualifiers and like a couple events. And I was like, that&#8217;s not going to get my juices flowing. Plus I&#8217;m going to be playing against people that are playing full time. Uh, so I decided to reapply to be an amateur, um, and you do it through the USGA. So, um, you fill out a form essentially kind of saying like how long you&#8217;ve been playing, how much money you&#8217;ve earned, you know, when the last tournament was. And then they go through a process of kind of reviewing your application, looking at your results and things like that. And they basically say, you know, You have this amount of time, uh, till you&#8217;re reinstated as an Amber. So I don&#8217;t know if there&#8217;s specific cutoffs of like, you know, if Tiger reapplies as an Amber, they&#8217;re gonna say, sorry buddy, no. Yeah, like is it, Jeff Pelizzaro: you&#8217;ve made too much money, you&#8217;ve, you know, reached this point, you&#8217;ve played in this many events, not Justin Bryant: gonna happen. Uh, for me, uh, I got essentially like two years, uh, to be reinstated, so, um, So I had to wait for my last competitive round, so I think I got [00:05:00] it back in 21, end of 21, November of 21, uh, yeah, cause, uh, November of 19 was my last round, so yeah, they basically came back and said, um, you can be an amateur, you know, don&#8217;t fall under the pro rules for the next two years, um, and then you can get your amateur status back, so in that time you can play Um, events that are opens, so like you could play like the Metropolitan Open in town, I can play because there&#8217;s amateurs and pros playing. Uh, and I could do like US Open qualifying because it&#8217;s the same thing. But I couldn&#8217;t play in just an amateur event, um, as you&#8217;re getting reinstated. Until you officially get Jeff Pelizzaro: your card. Correct. Gotcha. Justin Bryant: Um, I think they&#8217;ve changed a little bit of the rules since, since I&#8217;ve reapplied, so I think it&#8217;s actually shorter now. So if I&#8230; Um, some guys, um, I think, um, I might&#8217;ve only gotten like a year. Um, it didn&#8217;t really matter too much because COVID, there wasn&#8217;t a ton going on. So I felt like it was a shorter sentence than, uh, in reality of two years. Yeah. Jeff Pelizzaro: Sidebar. I remember you and your wife are the first ones [00:06:00] to alert me to COVID. Really? Because you guys had a trip planned to Justin Bryant: China. Yeah, we were going to go. Her brother lives in Hong Kong. Uh, so we&#8217;re going to go see them and then like do a trip, just the two of us to, uh, yeah, Thailand. Jeff Pelizzaro: Yeah. And you&#8217;re like, uh, yeah, I don&#8217;t think, I don&#8217;t know if it&#8217;s going to happen, this whole COVID thing. And that&#8217;s when I was like, what&#8217;s it, what, what are you talking about? And we had a big trip planned after that. And sure enough, obviously everything kind of, the world fell apart. But, uh, yeah. So you guys are the one, the first ones. I didn&#8217;t know. Tell me about the global pandemic. Yep. For sure. Uh, so professional wise, um, I know you had, uh, you played in quite a bit of different events, Monday qualifiers. I know you have a great story about the, well, great story, but not a great, uh, situation at the John Deere. Yeah. Right. So tell me a little bit about, uh, that and, and what other events you played in like corn fairy or whatever it was at the time, like what kind of level and how many events did you play in? And then, uh, you know, we&#8217;ll kind of. [00:07:00] that you&#8217;ve done recently. Justin Bryant: Yeah. So in 2012, I graduated from Wake Forest where I was on the golf team and then turned a professional that summer and played. I feel like I played in everything, at least the states you could play. Um, there&#8217;s definitely other journeymen that have played worldwide, but played European tour queue school. Canadian Q school. I had status up in Canada, um, only ended up playing like a couple of events up there. Um, played many tours all over the place. Uh, one day stuff, two day stuff, three day stuff, four day stuff. Played in the world par three championship out in Bermuda. Um, pretty much any competitive thing you could find. I tried to play. That was kind of the advice given to me is like, play as much as you can, play everything, play as much as you can. Um, cause that&#8217;s only gonna, I kind of look at it in two ways. One, it gives you more opportunities for good things to happen. Because in pro golf you really need to capitalize on when you&#8217;re playing well. Um, I think there&#8217;s a super small subset of golfers, you know, um, like [00:08:00] Tiger where they play well a lot. And then there&#8217;s kind of those other players that, uh, are really good players. I&#8217;m not saying they&#8217;re not, but they really, uh, make a lot of their money throughout the year on like two or three events. So it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s the same on the mini tours of, you know, the money&#8217;s way smaller, but whether that&#8217;s winning a mini tour event or, you know, playing your way into a Monday qualifier, things like that. So I, I tried to play as many opportunities as I can. I&#8217;m just like fortunate enough that I had the opportunities to do that. Um, played in some corn ferry tour events. I think I played in four, but never had, you know, status full time out there. So I was kind of Monday qualifying and then you kind of had your, your one shot to make something happen. Um, and then the John Deere. So I never played any, any PGA tour events, unfortunately, still on the bucket list, so we&#8217;ll see. But, uh. The John Deere, so if people don&#8217;t know, there&#8217;s pre qualifier at the PGA Tour events, so you kind of had to do the Thursday qualifier to get into the Monday one, so it was easy to do that here in St. Louis because the Deere, uh, I think it was in Moline, Illinois, where [00:09:00] it&#8217;s, you know, four hours away, so it was doing that and getting the Monday. It was playing well. I think I was, um, It was Pinnacle Country Club, I think is where it was. It&#8217;s kind of quirky. It&#8217;s got some weird holes. It was playing solid. I shot five under, I think. Maybe five or six, which Mondays you have to go pretty low. There&#8217;s only four spots for the PGA Tour. Normally you&#8217;re thinking like six, six to nine. Like six you&#8217;re kind of like, I got a chance. So when I shot five, I was like, maybe. Um, and there ended up being this huge playoff, uh, to get into it. So, I was really pumped. Uh, imagine July in Illinois. It was. so hot. I remember it was just pounding water waiting for that, uh, that playoff. And we finally get there. And I think it was like a six or seven for one playoff. So there&#8217;s seven guys playing at once, you know, one spot. So you&#8217;re thinking first playoff, I&#8217;ll definitely have to make birdie. Somebody is going to make birdie. Uh, and it&#8217;s this downhill hole. It&#8217;s pretty short. And I hit probably this one of the better drives on there. Kind of people would kind of sprayed it. Um, and everyone had hit their [00:10:00] shots, second shots into this par four and two, and no one was really that close. Like, I remember thinking, like, kind of surprised, like, 15 feet was maybe the closest, and these were all kind of wedge shots. Um, so I&#8217;m thinking, there&#8217;s me and one other guy left to hit. Uh, so I&#8217;m thinking, okay, if I, if I can get birdie here, somebody&#8217;s probably going to make a 15 footer, we&#8217;re going to go to the second play hole, but I like my odds. Like, I gotta hit this close. Visualized kind of where I wanted to land it. I think I had about, like, a seven footer. It was, it was pretty close, hit it exactly where I want to ball, like goes into the cup and comes out. And my adrenaline, my adrenaline&#8217;s pumping. I&#8217;m like, it&#8217;s going to go in and disappointed. It doesn&#8217;t go in, but at the same time, I&#8217;m like, Oh, it&#8217;s. So I&#8217;m not even really thinking about the last guy, the next guy to hit. I&#8217;m still kind of in like mode over the shot I just hit. And last guy to hit, he&#8217;s like two yards in front of me. It&#8217;s the same shot I do and it goes right in the hole. Um, and he [00:11:00] eagled the 18th hole to get into the playoff. So he finished, he eagled 18, eagled the playoff hole. Uh, it was a cool moment. I was obviously bummed, but like, he was hometown. That&#8217;s right, I remember that. Yeah, he had a bunch of friends there, and they were drinking beer and going crazy. So, it was a cool scene, but that&#8217;s as close as I got to kind of the big show, you can say. Jeff Pelizzaro: I remember, I don&#8217;t know if we were watching on the app at the time, because you and I were kind of working together at that time. I, I don&#8217;t remember if it was, what the situation was, whether it was Kelly that told me or you told me afterwards what, what happened, but, uh, man, I, I&#8217;ve told that story so many times myself. It was brutal. I still can Justin Bryant: see it in my head. But yeah. Jeff Pelizzaro: So crazy. So crazy. So now. Playing amateur golf, you transitioned over to, you know, coming back and playing a lot of amateur golf. Um, you are, you won the national club championship out in, was that Palm Springs? Yeah. So, what was that event? So, obviously, [00:12:00] club champion, St. Louis Country Club. Was that 21 or 22? That was Justin Bryant: 21, yeah. So 21, so I was able to play in the club championship while I was getting like reinstated because you can play in, in like club events. Okay. So as long as essentially the, you know, the head pro or, you know, kind of the golf committee says you can. So I said, you know, can I play in this? My, you know, competitive juices are flowing, I&#8217;m getting my amateur status back. And they said, yeah. Um, and was fortunate enough to win the club championship there. But I don&#8217;t think I could have played in the national one yet because of like I had to be an amateur for that event Okay, but I got and that event was in like December out in Palm Springs I think I got my amateur status back like the last week in November something like cutting it really close And it was a new event. I think they had previously done something but this is through like the PGA of America. They ran it and out in Palm Springs was working for Rapsodo and they actually had an event that we sponsored out there. So, um, one of our guys, um, was like, can you go do it? And I was like, [00:13:00] yeah, I might as well go play in the tournament. So, uh, it worked out perfectly kind of getting to help with that event and then playing it. And, uh, yeah, was, was kind of hitting on all cylinders and was able to get the, get the Jeff Pelizzaro: victory out there. And that was like, I just read, like, I think there are a couple different divisions, but like 300. male golfers that were in the competition. So what, I mean, what was that competition like? I assume there were quite a few guys like you that probably, you know, were club champs but had played, played pro. So the competition level obviously is very high. So what did that do for your motivation to keep playing and get, you know, kind of back into this really competitive mode? Yeah, I Justin Bryant: just, I love like tournament play. I love competition. Um, and there were a bunch of similar people in terms of like played college golf and, um, things of that nature, but everyone kind of has, you know, busy lives with, with work or family or things like that. So, um, I&#8217;ve tried to keep the same mindset that I had playing pro golf and amateur golf. [00:14:00] So, um, I don&#8217;t think of it as different competition to me, like, you know, golf and competitive golf, there&#8217;s one opponent and it&#8217;s yourself, um, whether that&#8217;s match play stroke play. So, um, you know, I kinda. I kind of will map out a course ahead of time, you know, like I&#8217;ll play it. And I used to do this way more in detail when I was playing professionally. So I&#8217;d kind of look at historical data, how people played it, what I thought needed to win, you know, how people played certain holes, what was hard and kind of put a pretty detailed game plan together. Uh, I don&#8217;t have the luxury of time to do that as much now, but I&#8217;ll, I&#8217;ll. I kind of mark it out a little bit in my head of, okay, this is what I want to execute on. And a lot of times, um, I don&#8217;t say it out loud to people because it&#8217;s going to sound ridiculous of like my goal is to shoot X amount under par, but my philosophy is you do the game plan. I don&#8217;t want to say perfect golf, but. Put together a game plan where you don&#8217;t think like, Hey, like, I hope I [00:15:00] play pretty well and shoot one under each round. Like, I&#8217;m going to put together a game plan. And maybe that&#8217;s going to fit where you are in your game now, but always stretch yourself in your game plan. So like, you know, my scoring average I think right now is like Like, I&#8217;m not gonna go put a game together in my next tournament where I shoot 70 77. Now that may win a tournament, it may be great, but you need to plan for the round that&#8217;s 9 under par, if you think that&#8217;s out there. Um, so that&#8217;s what I did that week. I think my goal was to make 18 birdies in 3 rounds. Uh, for people that don&#8217;t know, like Palm Springs, like the ball flies a little bit better. can be playing in a dome a little bit. I mean, you still got to execute, but um, that, that was my philosophy and I let the driver fly. And so I shot six under the first round, which was a PGA West, um, was in the lead and the other two courses. I can&#8217;t remember where they were, but I think I shot three under and then the final round, I shot like seven or eight under. Um, and so I think I finished. Making 18 [00:16:00] birdies. I think I finished like 17 or 16 under. I can&#8217;t remember, but, um, It all kind of came together in one of those moments, like yeah, that&#8217;s kind of what I was trying to do. Sometimes you put together that game plan and you go out and shoot two under for the week, and you know. That&#8217;s fine, and you may end up winning, but I&#8217;ve always kind of thought I&#8217;m going to put the game plan together of what I think is achievable if I go out and shoot well, and it&#8217;s not. It&#8217;s that, you know, 54 birdie and 8 hole mindset with a little bit of realistic in there. So I kind of try to, I kind of try to mix that. Um, which was a big, just like, shift in how I used to play golf. Um, which was, I was very scared, I don&#8217;t want to say scared, but like, I hated bogeys. Like, still hate them. You know, like, to me the round of like, no bogeys was like, okay, I played really well. And so, I think I played with the mindset of like, I&#8217;m not going to make bogey this hole. Um, and it&#8217;s more of shifting that mindset of like, no, I&#8217;m trying to pick birdies. And I don&#8217;t want to [00:17:00] make bogeys, so you&#8217;re still like plotting your air on the course, playing smart golf, um, you know, percentage golf, however you want to say it, but the mindset has, I won&#8217;t think about bogeys. Jeff Pelizzaro: When did that shift? Was that in your pro or is that more recent? Justin Bryant: Um, so I got to give credit to college. We used to laugh because there was one of my teammates, Lee Bedford, who&#8217;s a great, who was a great player, who&#8217;s an All American. He would say, and I don&#8217;t know if he got this from Coach Haas or not, but he would say, you know, if you make six birdies, you can only play so bad. And I was like, well, yeah, Lee, but like six birdies is pretty hard to do in a round. Um, and the older I got, I was kind of like, you know, Lee was kind of on to something, um, with that. And. You&#8217;re not going to average 6 birdies, but that&#8217;s kind of the scorecard I go under a round, is I&#8217;m going to try to make 6 birdies. And it&#8217;s not like I&#8217;m going to go out a tucked pin over water with a 3 iron to make 6 birdies. That might be, that hole I&#8217;m going to aim 40 feet to the right, and, okay, once I&#8217;m over the 40 footer, I&#8217;m trying to make it, you know, and if [00:18:00] it&#8217;s not in, I want good speed, so it&#8217;s a tap in. So, it&#8217;s not like this reckless, abandoned philosophy where I&#8217;m trying to make six birdies, but it&#8217;s that mindset of I&#8217;m trying to play the best of my ability each and every hole, each and every shot, each and every round. And since I&#8217;ve adopted that mindset, I shoot way more really, really low scores. And then, so my best scores got way better, and then my worst scores got better. Um, and I don&#8217;t. Think about like not making bogey, you know, so, um, yeah, I, I, it took me a while to adopt that. And I think there was some skill that needed to like improve to kind of really believe that I could do that. And then you kind of have to believe you can do it and then you&#8217;ve got to see yourself do it and then you&#8217;re kind of like, all right, let&#8217;s, Jeff Pelizzaro: let&#8217;s do it. I mean, you&#8217;ve seen yourself go pretty low quite a few times and now you can kind of go back to that memory bank. And so practice wise now, cause I know that before. You were very, a very stats driven. You kept spreadsheets, you kept XL [00:19:00] spreadsheets and you were a guy that went out and you practiced all day long. You had your routine, you had your regimen. Well, now you have three boys. You&#8217;ve got a beautiful wife. You&#8217;ve got a job. You&#8217;ve got all these things, but you&#8217;re still playing competitive golf. How has the practice. How has that changed, and how has that impacted the game? Justin Bryant: Yeah, I wish I knew what I knew now. You know, like playing. I think, I think a couple things, I think, um, When you&#8217;re in the mindset and the competitive nature of like, playing, trying to make it to PGA Tour, trying to become world number one, whatever the goal is, I had this sense of, I&#8217;m not doing enough, um, and I need to be practicing. There&#8217;s always somebody practicing, there&#8217;s always somebody going to get better, and that&#8217;s true. But really got to look at yourself and say, what do I need to do to do well? Not what does Jeff need to do or not? What is everybody else doing? But like really focus it on your bubble and like, what do I need to do to do well? Um, so I think one, like I don&#8217;t play as much. So [00:20:00] I think what I learned from that is like, I needed to rest more when I was playing professionally and like rest in terms of recovery, whether it&#8217;s sleep, nutrition. Anything. I think, I kind of thought I was doing that to some capacity, but like, I wasn&#8217;t really listening to my body when it like really hurt. I was kind of like, it&#8217;s hurt for the last ten years. Um, and so, a little bit of that perspective has been helpful. Um, But I would say too now it&#8217;s like I have an hour, so like what it really matters. Um, and I think a lot of that is more of like when I practice, it&#8217;s more like very, um, performance driven practice. Um, and I don&#8217;t care at all really what my swing looks like. Um, I say that more as an exercise, I care a lot about it, but, um, that&#8217;s more of the mindset. It looks pretty good, Jeff Pelizzaro: so you know. But&#8230; Justin Bryant: It&#8217;s, it&#8217;s doing, um, spending a lot more time on that kind of stuff. So like, um, doing little games on the range or if like I have an hour like really working on something specific like wedges. [00:21:00] So a lot of times I&#8217;ve, I&#8217;ve kind of realized that at least that the courses we play now that I&#8217;m operating pro are a little shorter. So, um, what do I need to do to do well? Um, and for me, I&#8217;m not saying this is everyone, like, I, I&#8217;m a pretty good driver of the ball. Um, I&#8217;m not super long, but like I, my misses are good. I&#8217;ve always said that&#8217;s like a strength of my game is like, I don&#8217;t hit, hit it the furthest, I don&#8217;t hit it the straightest, but when I hit it bad, it&#8217;s pretty straight. Um, so really working on like drivers and wedges. Um, and because I kind of feel like&#8230; There&#8217;s three different golf swings, not trying to confuse people, but like, as I&#8217;ve gotten better, I&#8217;ve learned, like, there&#8217;s not really one motion. Um, there&#8217;s kind of your, your stock swing, which we all learn, and then, like, with a driver, you kind of swing slightly differently. Um, so that might be, like, hitting up on the ball a little bit more, versus all other clubs, you&#8217;re kind of hitting down on it. Um, And, uh, wedges is completely different. Um, so the last, like, year or two, I&#8217;ve really spent a lot of time working [00:22:00] on, um, wedge play. And I&#8217;ve kind of set thought, like, if I hit, my wedge is good and I drive it well, that kind of blends the middle swing together well. Um, so, working on that, I hardly work on my putting, um, Really? Hardly. And my putting is way better than it used to be. Um, so I think that&#8217;s a big learning thing too, is like when I hit putts, um, it&#8217;s putting against, I have, you know, three boys, two of them, they&#8217;re little, they&#8217;re four and six, but I do very basic games with them. You know, speed games, making putts, and I don&#8217;t think about technique and putting at all because I just know like I&#8217;m not going to play that much and I&#8217;m not going to focus on it. So I have like a very couple checklists of the fundamentals and to me, I try to make putting as reactive and athletic as possible. Like, um, I&#8217;m like, I&#8217;ve just thought at this point I&#8217;ve hit so many putts. I know how to hit a putt. Um, and like when I play catch with my boys, I&#8217;m not thinking but there&#8217;s a couple things you think about. You [00:23:00] step forward, your momentum goes, you throw it. Like, you don&#8217;t think about my arm position, how far I&#8217;m taking it back because I&#8217;ve thrown a baseball at this point a ton of times. And I think over the years with like putting, I thought about I would be that person, like that kid that&#8217;s trying to figure out how to throw a baseball. Um, even though, you know, I&#8217;ve hit a ton of putts, so, um, kind of adopted the mindset of I&#8217;ve hit, I&#8217;ve put in the work already, um, and just focus on the target and play catch with the, with the target. Jeff Pelizzaro: That has always made so much sense to me. Not that I take that into my golf game necessarily, but, you know, I mean, coming from a soccer background and just. Speaking of baseball, like if you think about throwing a baseball in somebody&#8217;s glove could be anywhere, but you still, your body figures out how to get it to that different direction or you&#8217;re playing shortstop and you got to throw it to second or you got to throw it to first or you got to throw it home. You just naturally instinctively do that. So that, that makes a lot of sense to me. The dry or the, uh, the wedge, you said the wedge swing is a [00:24:00] little bit different. Just explain that a little bit. What, what&#8217;s different there that. Yeah, Justin Bryant: so I, I thought I was like a decent wedge player, um, but I used to swing it like I&#8217;d swing every other club and I&#8217;d kind of hit these like high spinny wedges and if there was no wind it was pretty good and then you&#8217;d kind of get in situations where it&#8217;s downhill, uphill. Um, and working at RepSoda, I&#8217;ve been lucky to be able to kind of pick the brains of Mark Blackburn, who coaches Max Homa, Claude Harmon, who&#8217;s coached a bunch of major winners. And kind of like, alright, what do good wedge players do? And this, them, and universally, it&#8217;s people, the best wedge players hit low wedge shots. Um, high, high spinning low wedge shots. So it&#8217;s the opposite of a driver. A driver, you kind of, if you&#8217;re trying to maximize distance, you want to launch it a little higher. Um, obviously, you know, not too high, but, uh, higher than I would say most people probably think, um, with low spin. That&#8217;s how you&#8217;re going to get it long, um, straight, but with wedges, you want to launch [00:25:00] them low. So low would be like sub 30 degrees. Um, so if you think about your wedge, you kind of want it as a general rule of thumb to flight. Half of what your degree in your club is. So, you know, I use a 58, so I&#8217;m looking for under, you know, 29 degrees of launch. And if I hit before, it 35. So, um, I kind of, we&#8217;re shooting some content with Mark with RepSoto, and he was working through this, and it was 100% a content shoot. Except for me, when I was like, this is, this is, I&#8217;m getting a nice lesson out of this. Um, and I struggled in that scenario of hitting it low with him. Um. And he gave some helpful tips and, but my takeaway is like, I got to figure out how to launch it low. Um, and so, and he was kind of telling me, you know, it&#8217;s a different swing. You got to come in a little more shallow. The wrists aren&#8217;t quite as active. Because if you&#8217;re coming in there with a ton of angle, you can kind of get steep. The ball is going to come up high with a lot of spin. So, I don&#8217;t really know what I do, but I fiddle it around with kind of, All right, I got to launch it, you know, get a launch [00:26:00] monitor out there or Mark had like these kind of sticks with pull pull motors and he said, this is, you know, if it&#8217;s under 30 degrees, it&#8217;s going to under hit it under it. So worked on hitting it low and kind of having a couple of yards to hit with the wedges and it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s helped tremendously. Um, cause I think the fear was when you hit them low, they&#8217;re going to not go, but, um, that they&#8217;ll stop if you hit it, if you hit it square. So, Jeff Pelizzaro: yeah, I mean, what an opportunity to work with. Some of those guys and just even pick their brains. Yeah, so it&#8217;s speaking of rap soda Obviously you&#8217;ve been working with them for a few years. Yeah How much of that do you utilize in your practice sessions? Obviously, you know You might have some opportunities at work to kind of dial a few points in while you&#8217;re working, right? Um, but it goes into that focus practice too, right? So how do you utilize that? What are the things that you&#8217;re looking at in different scenarios when you have the MLM with you? Justin Bryant: Yeah, so it&#8217;s definitely a nice perk. My game would probably be a little worse if I wasn&#8217;t at [00:27:00] Repso for the simple fact that we have like a setup in the office and you can kind of, you know, some people may go to the water or stand up and I might go to tent swing. So, um, it&#8217;s not a ton of practice, but it helps. So, um, but yeah, we have two launch monitors. So when I started there, it was the MOM, which launched in 2019, which is a radar based unit that uses the camera on your phone. Um, so really cool device. Uh, and then earlier this year, and it&#8217;s been fun for the last two years to be working on this project, uh, product, uh, the MLM2 Pro, which has two cameras integrated into it and the radar. So, you&#8217;re getting to see your swing from down the line, shot trace with it. Um, getting to see impact vision is what we call it. So you can see like where the ball is hitting the club on the, on the&#8230; Oh, really? The ball is hitting the club. On the club face? On the club face, which is really cool from behind. Um, which we&#8217;ve seen like a lot of funny videos too of like&#8230; Shanks, heel shots, tops. Um, so being able to use that product, um, has been huge, um, just in terms of, as I said, like, I only have, like, when my wife&#8217;s like, [00:28:00] you have an hour to go hit, I&#8217;m like, alright, um, I got an hour. So, for me, I really use it for, I would say three to four applications. So I don&#8217;t hit like a ton of, I think there&#8217;s good things for people that are just learning like their club gapping, like hitting a bunch of your shots in there, working on your seven iron. I really use it to dial in the wedges, um, to kind of check on my driver to make sure it&#8217;s kind of launching in the window. I want it to launch of like 12 to 15 degrees, um, with the right spin. Um, and then using, uh, our combine. Um, so people may be familiar with like a track main combine. Um, we developed a combine, um, with Dr. Sasha McKenzie who, um, is a genius, uh, in the golf space. Worked with, uh, Fitzpatrick, um, a ton of guys, um, but designed this combine to 24 shot test. Uh, that you can take, and it&#8217;s two approach starters and driver. So, for me, it&#8217;s like, alright, I got 15 20 minutes. Uh, I can&#8217;t go play, so I&#8217;m gonna, like, play, do this combine, and it gives you a score at the end of it with a handicap associated. You can see, like, where [00:29:00] your proximity is versus pro, versus your handicap range. And for me, it&#8217;s like, that&#8217;s kind of tests the game a little bit. Um, it&#8217;s not the same because you&#8217;re not getting the short game in putting, but, like, I know where my ball striking is. Um, if I go in there and I get a bad score on, like, a 50 yard shot, But I did really well from 180. It&#8217;s like, all right, next time I&#8217;m out here, I&#8217;m going to, I&#8217;m going to work on the 50 yards. So, um, really actionable that way. And then a fun feature in the two pro that I&#8217;ve, that I&#8217;ve used, and I wasn&#8217;t anticipating this is we have 30, 000 courses that you can play from, uh, as well as some other partnerships with, uh, simulation, uh, partners. But I&#8217;ll kind of like scout out a course ahead of time just on the sim. So, um, it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s auto putting on there, but like, you know, playing, playing persimmon this week, you know, look it up. Play it and it takes a very short amount of time and it gives you like a sense of like Alright, when am I going to head off one, when am I going to head off two, a little bit of like where I&#8217;m going to aim, um, especially for courses that we don&#8217;t, I don&#8217;t play, or haven&#8217;t played, haven&#8217;t played in a while, um, so [00:30:00] that&#8217;s been like a very, uh, helpful thing that I wasn&#8217;t anticipating in terms of like very practical Jeff Pelizzaro: way to use it. Yeah, you probably thought like, I won&#8217;t really use the simulator stuff very much, I&#8217;ll use it more for the practice, but. Whereas, you know, a lot of people just want to use it for the simulator because it&#8217;s just like playing golf, but that&#8217;s, that&#8217;s pretty cool. So how long does the combine take? And you said it&#8217;s only 24, 24 Justin Bryant: balls? Yeah, so it&#8217;s, yeah, it gives you kind of six warm up shots, uh, and then there&#8217;s 24 shots. So you&#8217;ll hit, um, it&#8217;s a nice rotation too. So you&#8217;ll hit two to the first approach target, two to the second approach target, and then two drivers. And then you&#8217;ll go through that, uh, four times. So 24 shots. So it takes me about 15 minutes, maybe 20 if I&#8217;m like very meticulous or&#8230; Cleaning my clubs between each shot or something like that, um, but yeah, it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s a fun way to do it. And actually in August, um, a cool thing we&#8217;re doing is if you take a combine on MLM or MM2 Pro, you are, uh, entered into a contest, or entered to win a virtual lesson with Claude Harmon III. Oh, wow. Which is pretty cool. Okay. So, may take out a couple [00:31:00] extra this month. That&#8217;s pretty cool. Jeff Pelizzaro: That&#8217;s awesome. So, um, as far as like, figuring out your distances on your clubs, the, you know, different gapping and stuff like that, is there a specific program that does that? Or is it something that you kind of have to piece together? How do you, how do you do that? I&#8217;ve Justin Bryant: never done that. Yeah, we got it. We got to document this. We got to get it because it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s shocking to me. How many people don&#8217;t that are like golfers, they just don&#8217;t know how far they hit it. Yeah. Um, and a lot of people like know how far they hit their best six iron or like their top 10% of their best six irons or they know like how far it goes in total. Um, really understand that carry number is really important to people. Um, but yeah, I, I just recommend the first time somebody gets it, like put it down, you know, hit six shots with each one of your clubs. Um, and then we have this session inside. So post session, you can click on that and it&#8217;ll show like. Your shortest shot with your six, your longest, and then your average, and then all your clubs. And so you can kind of see, um, you know, what distances you have between each [00:32:00] club. So, you kind of want twelve ish, ten, twelve yards, you know, between each club. Um, a lot of times what we&#8217;ll see with people is like their three or four iron or their three hybrid four iron, four or five, kind of go the same distance. Like, if you go in there and you hit shots and you have like a four yard difference. Like, you should go get fit and fight, you know, put, or put an extra wedge in there because that&#8217;s, that&#8217;s not going to be a meaningful bump on the golf course to, to make a difference. So that&#8217;s like the first thing I always tell people, just go out, hit every club in your bag, hit six of them, um, recommend six cause that&#8217;s kind of enough as a sample size, uh, to hit. And then you can kind of see. See how your bag looks that&#8217;s check number one Jeff Pelizzaro: Yeah, I remember going through some of the combine stuff with you when you guys were doing all your testing Yeah, you were you were an early beta tester. I was I was and I remember it was an eye opening moment when you&#8217;re like You should always lay up to 90 yards Because like of all my clubs like that was the one club that I hit pretty consistently and you&#8217;re like whatever you do Lay up to 90 yards and that was eye opening [00:33:00] because I&#8217;d never really even, it was always just kind of like, just try to get as close as you possibly can. You&#8217;re like, no, you&#8217;re better. You&#8217;re better back here than you are up Justin Bryant: there. If you&#8217;re, yeah. If you&#8217;re averaging like 90 yards, your proximity is closer and you&#8217;re like twice as bad from 50 because that&#8217;s like, it&#8217;s good to know, you know, it&#8217;s like, it&#8217;s whether it&#8217;s that or like. I&#8217;d say kind of the three things are one, figuring out like where your strengths are. So like you understanding that, um, that leads into like this guy in our office, like loves hitting his driver. And so like, when he takes a combine, his, his handicap is like a one and then his approach targets, he&#8217;s like a 25 to 30 handicap. And I&#8217;m like, Brian, like you need to practice your irons. It&#8217;s very obvious, like where you spend all your time. Uh, and if you just want to hit drivers, it&#8217;s great. Like if you want to improve, it&#8217;s pretty obvious where you need to improve. Um, and two, it&#8217;s just like the, to be able to provide like context to people and what a good shot is. Um, because I think you watch the, you know, the PGA tour or shout out to the lid tour watching that and you see like the average distance, you know, of, uh, or you see that where they&#8217;re hitting it and it&#8217;s like, you&#8217;re seeing the best players on the planet, best [00:34:00] shots that week. So, um, when you take the comment, it&#8217;ll show you like, yeah, your proximity, what a pros is, and then your handicaps, you&#8217;re kind of like, oh, wow, pros from, I don&#8217;t know, I&#8217;m off the top of my head, but a hundred yards, it&#8217;s. 15 feet or whatever it is. Yeah. Um, it&#8217;s not five feet. So it kind of gives you two, like a little freedom, I think, to kind of, um, you know, swing without the pressure of like a half tip is to two feet. Cause in reality, you&#8217;re not going to do that every time. Jeff Pelizzaro: Let&#8217;s take a second to thank our partners over at Live Pure. Live Pure is the number one hydration drink that you need on the golf course, especially when it&#8217;s getting hot out there. You&#8217;re sweating. You&#8217;re playing lots of golf. You need something more than just water in your water bottle. So, Dr. Troy Van Biesen and his team formulated one of the greatest hydration products out there that is no sugar added, all natural ingredients, and the top quality PGA Tour pros, champions that you know, are all using this [00:35:00] on the golf course. So, go over to LivePure. com. That&#8217;s L I V P U R. com. Check out all their products. You can use the code 18STRONG. And let Live Peer champion your day. So, we&#8217;ve had a chance to play together a few times and we do our Friday morning mandatory golf Friday. Shout out to Link Soul for, for starting that. Um, so obviously when you&#8217;re playing in competitions, you&#8217;re playing with very high level golfers. When you&#8217;re playing in our Friday morning, we&#8217;ve, we&#8217;ve got run the gamut, right? Yeah, we got the Justin Bryant: range. We&#8217;ve Jeff Pelizzaro: got a few really good guys, couple plus handicappers. We&#8217;ve got some guys up in the twenties and you know, maybe even beyond there. Um, but so when you&#8217;re out there playing with guys of more that caliber, let&#8217;s say the 10 plus handicappers, what are you seeing out there where you&#8217;re like, man, if I could just work with that person or give them a little bit of, of hints or [00:36:00] instruction on like not necessarily like their golf swing, but. Like what they should be working on. What are some of the things that you see? And you could pick on me if you want, by all means. Um, but just a couple of like, like big rock things that many of us either get wrong or just don&#8217;t put the time in or don&#8217;t know that we should be putting the time in there. Justin Bryant: Yeah. So I think there&#8217;s a couple of things is people want, as we kind of talked about, they don&#8217;t know how far they hit it. They may think they know how far they hit it, but they don&#8217;t. So people grab clubs and I&#8217;m like, it&#8217;s not, it&#8217;s not going to get there. Like, so, you know, and then they hit it and I can&#8217;t believe I didn&#8217;t get there. Um, so I think one, it&#8217;s understanding your game. Uh, so one, where to hit it, and then, or how far you&#8217;re hitting it, and then two, it&#8217;s just like the course management stuff. So, whether that&#8217;s understanding what target to aim at. So, like, the thing that I love is when I&#8217;m helping a buddy out at the range, and he kind of wants a lesson, I&#8217;m like, alright. Or my boys, I&#8217;m like, well, where are you aimed? I&#8217;m like, I don&#8217;t know, I just want to hit it straight. And I&#8217;m like, that&#8217;s like going to the gym and just taking a basketball and just shooting it around. Like, [00:37:00] and you&#8217;re just like, what are you doing? Well, I&#8217;m just, I&#8217;m just trying to, I&#8217;m shooting it. And it&#8217;s like, you need to have a target on the range. And there&#8217;s a time on the range not to have a target if you&#8217;re working on technique and you just kind of need to grind something. But like, if you&#8217;re not working on something very specific technique wise. You need to pick a target and if you&#8217;re working on something technique wise like don&#8217;t even care where it goes because you&#8217;re trying to work on like a movement so one it&#8217;s picking a target out there and that&#8217;s like understanding that I call it like the the shot you know sniper versus the shotgun so a lot of people are aiming right at the pin. And like, I can&#8217;t tell you how few times I aim at the pin when I&#8217;m playing. Um, and you should swing as if you&#8217;re aiming at a very specific target, but understanding you really don&#8217;t know where the ball is going to go. So like, you need to swing like you know where it&#8217;s going. So it&#8217;s that fine thing of not really understanding it. So, you know, people need to just aim at the middle of the green and swing very aggressively at that middle target, and you&#8217;re going to hit the ball close to the pin by accident. So, like, as a general rule [00:38:00] of thumb, I think that is a good one. I think a really good exercise, too, in terms of just course management is, like, play with a half set or, like, five clubs. Yeah. Because, uh, I do it sometimes as an exercise of course management because then you get between, like, a, you know, it&#8217;s like, oh, man, it&#8217;s a perfect 7 iron, but you only have a 6 and 8 in your bag. And then the thought is either, how do I get this? there, uh, to be a 7 iron, or where do I want the ball to leave it. So, I think a lot of times it&#8217;s just understanding, like, 5 at Ruth Park. Like, you can&#8217;t go long there. I&#8217;ve played with so many people and they, they want to get in the back tier in the air mill, and I&#8217;m like, well you&#8217;re, now you&#8217;re dead. Now you&#8217;re legitimately dead. So, um, that&#8217;s a shot like it stinks when you hit it short and it rolls back, but it&#8217;s a way better shot than long. So I think it&#8217;s like&#8230; Understanding some of that nuance in like club selection too. So there&#8217;s learning how far you&#8217;re going to hit it, and then there&#8217;s just kind of like understanding targets and where your misses need to be. Um, and kind of managing that. Of like, you know, there&#8217;s certain holes when I [00:39:00] play, and guys are like, they see the fairway, and so they&#8217;re like, well I&#8217;m going to aim it down the fairway. And I&#8217;ll play a hole, there&#8217;s one at St. Louis, number 14. Um, there&#8217;s like woods right of the rough. And like, I say there&#8217;s the world to the left. So I aim down the left edge of the fairway in the rough. and understand that, like, I&#8217;m probably going to hit it in the left rough. But, like, it&#8217;s an easy wedge to the green. Versus if I aim in the middle of the fairway, 20% of the time I&#8217;m going to hit it in the right rough and I&#8217;m dead. Right. So, I just eliminate that side completely and accept, like, the rough&#8217;s fine. So, I think it&#8217;s kind of just, like, understanding some of that. That, like, you don&#8217;t have to hit it in the fairway. You don&#8217;t have to hit the green. Like, sometimes a little shorter the green&#8217;s better than 20 feet, you know, above the pin. So. Yeah, Jeff Pelizzaro: Ruth, Ruth Park number five. Hardest hole in St. Louis. Maybe the hardest green in St. Louis. If you&#8217;re on the wrong tier, you&#8217;re in trouble. Uh, when you&#8217;re out either just playing by yourself or even competitive rounds, what are you tracking now as opposed to what you used to track back in the day or if it&#8217;s the same maybe.[00:40:00] Just as far as your stats and how do you use them then to say, alright I need to go practice this or that. Justin Bryant: Yeah, so I still do it a little bit. I&#8217;m not as intense as I used to so I don&#8217;t do my practice stats. Uh, every once in a while, I&#8217;ll use, um, a couple different systems in terms of like, uh, I said I don&#8217;t practice my putting, but like they&#8217;re basically simulated putting is what I&#8217;ll do. So like decade app has one stack, I think has one where they&#8217;ll basically be like, all right, hit a 15 footer left to right. And I&#8217;ll kind of like do that and it&#8217;ll kind of say like what strokes gained you are. So to me, that&#8217;s like a valuable tool. Um, I don&#8217;t chart my practice stuff anymore outside of that. Um, but in terms of tournaments, I&#8217;ll still write the result of every shot down. So I&#8217;ll track my tournament rounds, and I use, uh, the Golf Metrics app, which is Mark Brody&#8217;s Strokes Gained app. Oh, yeah. Um, cause to me, it&#8217;s super easy to kind of plug them in. I&#8217;ve used it over the years. Is that something you have to do after Jeff Pelizzaro: your Justin Bryant: round, or? Yeah, so I do it after the round. So essentially, like, I&#8217;ll get a scorecard, or I&#8217;ll use the pin sheet, and it&#8217;s [00:41:00] like, you basically write the distance you have to the hole. And then, like, I don&#8217;t write the Y down there just because I put it in after the round and I remember where I hit it. That&#8217;s because you don&#8217;t have a hundred strokes. But it&#8217;ll be like, you know, the first hole, uh, was in the fairway and I was 86 yards to the pin. Hit 20 feet, put it to 2 feet in. And so you put that in there and then over the course of 18 holes, it uses the PGA Tour average. So you can use, like, uh, the amateur, um, or the, the pro stroke scan. I, I just use the pro. Um, but it&#8217;ll give you context of what the average is. So it&#8217;s not perfect system because on the tour, they&#8217;re using that data from that week on that whole, but I kind of look at it as like throughout the year, it&#8217;s going to kind of all even out with that. And it gives me context of like how, how, how I&#8217;m playing. So if I&#8217;m positive strokes gain on something, I did it well. If I&#8217;m negative, I don&#8217;t put a ton of thought into it. If it&#8217;s one round. Unless I was like, man, I, something funky was going on. Um, but if I like see over the course of a tournament or like a month, [00:42:00] there&#8217;s a trend going on, then I&#8217;ll kind of think about how I need to fix it, but I don&#8217;t try to make one off, one round. You&#8217;re gonna, you&#8217;re gonna put bad one round or hit a driver bad one round. So, it is what it Jeff Pelizzaro: is. What do you do, um, Are you, do you work with an instructor at all? I know you, you obviously know the golf swing very well. You, and you, you know, practice a lot or practice quite a bit. But, um, as far as like your swing in itself, when you find that maybe there&#8217;s something a little bit off, how do you go about kind of diagnosing and fixing that? What do you do to work on it? Do you have somebody that you lean on to look at your stuff or you just kind of Justin Bryant: work on your own? Yeah, at this point, I kind of work on my own. Uh, I would definitely recommend people find somebody though. So&#8230; Was very fortunate to, to grow up and take lessons from and learn from people like Mike Tucker, Brian Fote, St. Louis guys. Um, but also Jack Lumpkin taught me for like the majority I would say of like high school, college pro, at least 15 years. So, and he really instilled in me, [00:43:00] um, he was, he was always there if I needed him, but he was like, listen, like Jack Nicholas got like two lessons from his coach a year. I forget what it was, but basically trying to say like, you need to own your swing. Um, so I, I really think that that was like 15 years. We didn&#8217;t, like, learn everything to know about, like, golf swing, so I&#8217;m not, wouldn&#8217;t say, like, I&#8217;m really smart there, but I feel like I have a Ph. D. in my swing. Um, my tendency is what I need to do to get better, so I don&#8217;t work with anyone, um, now. I kind of, the, the values and lessons he taught me there, so I keep it really simple of, To me, normally, posture, grip, alignment is where you start, so PGA is pretty easy to remember. So if I&#8217;m hitting it funky, that&#8217;s the first three things I check. If that kind of goes off the, the, um, that seems fine, I kind of just keep it simple. So like, I, uh, I kind of think about the area between both, like my backswing for my hips on both sides. And if that area is good, [00:44:00] You&#8217;re going to hit it good, so like, I don&#8217;t have a ton of time now to like work on my backswing and where it&#8217;s going to be, so I kind of try to think about there, think about where I need to be at impact, um, think about the shot shapes I need to hit, so he always told me like, if you&#8217;re hooking it, just go on the range and hit a bunch of cuts. If you&#8217;re cutting it, you need too much, go on the range and add a bunch of draws. So, keeping it super simple is how I try to do it. And some days you feel so lost. And then Kelly, my wife, kids, I&#8217;ll come home and be like, I figured it out. And she&#8217;s like, yeah, I&#8217;ve heard that before. Jeff Pelizzaro: That&#8217;s, maybe that&#8217;s the next. Next, uh, good bogey shirt you need to make is, I figured it out. I was just thinking about that the end of day. I figured it out. That was a good one. Yeah. I mean, the, the words you hear most in the world of golf, that is like, oh, you just, you just cursed yourself. Right. It&#8217;s like figured it out. Oh, it&#8217;s, it feels so Justin Bryant: easy though. Yeah. It feels so easy. Then you go out the next day and you&#8217;re like, I, it&#8217;s not working. Nope. Jeff Pelizzaro: So speaking of, of coaches, you had the, the pleasure of, of playing for Coach Haas. Yeah. At Wake Forest you played with Web Simpson. [00:45:00] Any good Coach Haas stories for us? Oh Justin Bryant: man, Coach Hostor is, he&#8217;s just the best. I mean, he&#8217;s like a big kid, um, in some sense. Um, I love that man to death. Still text him and talk to him all the time. You know, we talk about, he&#8217;s from St. Louis, an area of Belleville. Um, so I always text him about the Blues and Cardinals and Nelly&#8217;s songs. And his son&#8217;s gonna be on the Wake team next year, which is awesome. Oh, no way. Yeah, he just won that Eastern AM, I think. Wow. So, uh, excited to follow, uh, follow Kyle&#8217;s career. Man. I don&#8217;t, I don&#8217;t know about like, I&#8217;m probably blanking on like a couple of gems, but like the one story that sticks out to me in college was, um, I didn&#8217;t make, so in college you got about like 12 guys on the team, only like 5 travel. I, I didn&#8217;t make this tournament, but early in the morning I get a knock on my door at like 4am. And I was like, some drunk kids here, like, so I kind of like went down to like a golf club. Because I was like, it was our house, and I was like, you just don&#8217;t know what you&#8217;re going to get before you get up in the morning. [00:46:00] Um, and it was this freshman on our team, he was like, you need to, you need to go to the tournament in Tampa. I was like, Brendan, what are you talking about? He&#8217;s like, you know, so and so&#8217;s sick, like you need to go down there. They&#8217;ve been trying to call you. Whatever. So, like, I pack, like, I think my flight was in, like, an hour and a half, had to drive to Charlotte, get down there, like, warm up, and have them play the course, jet late, they drive me to the course, um, and I&#8217;m, like, on the, hit a couple balls when we&#8217;re not with Coach Howes, and he&#8217;s kind of catted me away around, and he always jokes that I hit, I, he&#8217;s like, you were striping on the range, and then we tee it up, and you look like you hit a wiffle ball, because I hit this, like, big balloon slice, like, I&#8217;m sure I was nervous. I don&#8217;t remember. It was ugly. But hit it way out to the right, chip out, and I have like 90 yards to the green. And I look in my bag and I&#8217;m like, I have two 58 degrees in my bag. So I&#8217;m freaking out because I&#8217;m like, I just got penalized. But then I realized I have no sandwich. Um, but I [00:47:00] didn&#8217;t want to tell Coach Haas, and I like chunked the chip from the bunker. I made like double, triple in the first hole. Like, I didn&#8217;t want to tell Coach, like, I don&#8217;t, I don&#8217;t have a sandwich. Until we get to like the seventh hole, and we&#8217;re like in the rough, and I don&#8217;t remember, it was like 107 yards, and he&#8217;s like, we got 107, the wind&#8217;s doing this, you gotta land it here. He&#8217;s like, what do you, what do you like? And I was like, well, I was like, I could use the new 58 with fresh grooves or you can go the old 58 with worn out grooves. I was like, and he kind of paused and looks at me like, I don&#8217;t have a sandwich. And I don&#8217;t remember what he said, but he just very calmly was like, no grooves. Um, and I hit it and like we laughed just about that whole day because it was a bizarre day like flying in, I had two lob wedges, hit it, whiff a ball off the first hole, just terrible shot and ended up, I think, shooting like even or something. I had a good round, but, uh, that&#8217;s like the memory I have of coach the mouse there. Jeff Pelizzaro: Yeah. We had him on the show a long time ago. He&#8217;s still, he has texted me a couple of times to get extra 18STRONG t shirts. Oh, he&#8217;s texting me too. He loves that shirt. He loves that shirt. [00:48:00] Uh, but no, he&#8217;s just such a, such a. Yeah. It&#8217;s a fun guy to just interact with. Obviously I&#8217;ve only had a couple of interactions with him, but that, that&#8217;s cool that his son&#8217;s going to be there and we&#8217;ll have to follow him as well. Um, all right. So obviously I&#8217;m sporting my, my good bogey shirt. Um, good bogey is your Instagram handle and, and, uh, tell us a little bit about, uh, Um, what the good bogey is, where it started. Obviously you&#8217;ve got some design background and, and, uh, you&#8217;re putting out some merch, but also the swing traces and all kinds of Justin Bryant: stuff. Yeah. So not a short elevator pitch answer on the good bogey, but essentially the short as I can make it was, um, during COVID, um, you know, finding other outlets, things to do, and I&#8217;ve always, my family has a huge, like art background. My sister has a, as a company that has a lot of art infused into it. Art history majors. It just kind of was always around me. Kelly&#8217;s, uh, my wife&#8217;s grandpa, uh, it&#8217;s a really good graphic designer. That&#8217;s done a lot of really cool, uh, famous logos. And so I feel like I&#8217;ve always kind of been [00:49:00] around that like design art kind of thing. And, and so there was like some specific things I was, I wrote like a kid&#8217;s book for, for Jack&#8217;s, um, my oldest son, um, during COVID. And I was like, I kind of don&#8217;t want any pictures or kind of some art stuff. And I was like, I kind of want, this is kind of the look I wanted, but like, It didn&#8217;t exist out there. So started kind of making some of my own things. Um, and then it was just like a really good exercise for me because one, like kind of have, I fall in the spectrum of like trying to be a perfectionist person, not caring about anything. So that&#8217;s like plays its way on the golf course. It plays its way throughout life. So I was like, all right, this is a good exercise for me of like, It doesn&#8217;t have to be perfect, but like, let&#8217;s get stuff done. Let&#8217;s put it out there. Like, let&#8217;s just kind of create. Um, and so that&#8217;s where the good bogey came from is like people, you know, are bogeys good or bad? Jeff Pelizzaro: I mean, they&#8217;re, they&#8217;re bad, but for many golfers, they&#8217;ll take bogey, bogey. Yeah. But that&#8217;s the, Justin Bryant: that&#8217;s the thing is like, it&#8217;s all relative, right? So like [00:50:00] some players, uh, bogey is good. Yeah. Like some players, bogey is really bad. They&#8217;re situationals. Like, you know, do you remember what Tiger did in 2019? Like, well, he won. Oh, yeah, he won. He won. Do you remember what he did on the first hole? No. Remember what he did on the last hole? No. So, I don&#8217;t remember he won. Yeah, but he bogeyed the last hole. Yeah. And he won by one. So, like, to me, like, if you isolate that one hole, like, did Tiger play that hole well, it&#8217;s like, I mean, no, but situationally he did. So it was, it was a good bogey in that sense. Yeah. Hitting your ball out of bounds and then making a bogey is a good bogey. So I think for me, it was more of like an exercise of just like that, you know, like, like if, in order to like for us to change as humans and like, whether that&#8217;s culturally beliefs, like you have to like have these rituals in your lives of like actually doing that. So for me, it was just like. I want to shed this like perfectionism and like do stuff and so the ritual was was creating stuff and just posting So like I had no expectation. It was an exercise purely for me. [00:51:00] It was purely fun Um, and it kind of morphed into what it is continuing to be, you know Now there&#8217;s kind of things I want to do with it, but it&#8217;s kind of golf art graphic design thing. So I&#8217;ve been fortunate enough to create some, some, um, designs for some people, um, and some of it for myself that I, that I sell, whether it&#8217;s t shirts or, you know, pieces of art, people have turned them into tattoos, which like still blows me away. Yeah. So like one of the, one of our logos is, is like a kid caddy. Um, is Jeff Pelizzaro: it on the back? Justin Bryant: It&#8217;s not on that one. It&#8217;s not on that one. It might, it&#8217;s on your fridge over there. Okay. Bye. It&#8217;s a kid caddy kind of like walking, um, walking with his bag and there&#8217;s kind of like an Augusta theme one. And there&#8217;s, you know, kind of like a Pinehurst theme one. Um, and there&#8217;s a couple other ones in the works, but that was kind of modeled off my middle kid, Lad. Um, I love Lad, which Lad&#8217;s awesome. All three of my kids and Lad just kind of has this like. [00:52:00] Love sports, love action, but like kind of doesn&#8217;t care. Um, so kind of embodying his energy a little bit into that character and lads tattooed on some people. So, uh, it&#8217;s pretty, it&#8217;s pretty wild. So thanks. So, uh, yeah, we&#8217;ve done some design and kind of the biggest thing that took off was, uh, the, um, signature sing, uh, swing signature, signature swing. Uh, swing signature is what it really is, but I kind of just flipped the word because the good bogey and gonna put it out of order. Um, but it&#8217;s essentially these traces of people&#8217;s paths on the downswing, uh, the backswing and I was really doing it completely for myself of like. During COVID, I was thinking about my golf swing a lot. Um, and, um, I used to look at my swing a ton on video. And as I said, like the more I understood golf, my game, the more problems I saw with it. So like I wanted to isolate it and not see it and actually just look at the pattern of what the club [00:53:00] was doing and then look like. What was Sne doing? What was Hogan doing? Like, what do their patterns look like? Um, cause I really, my, Jack Lumpkin, my golf coach, growing up, I&#8217;ll never forget when he said this to me when we were getting a lesson, and he said, you know, fairways are full of good players, or good looking swings. Um, and I was like, Oh gosh, yeah, you&#8217;re right. That doesn&#8217;t really matter what your swing looks like. Um, but really wanted to study these like movements. So I&#8217;m starting doing it and I, I post them on there and that kind of was kind of cool art forms. And, um, now it kind of people really hang them in their house. Um, I&#8217;ll do it. People have gotten them tattooed on themselves. Um, they get, they&#8217;re really popular gifts for people or like kind of wedding gifts for Uh, bachelors and stuff. And so it&#8217;s been like a really fun project that like had no intention that it would happen. It was just an exercise for myself. So where&#8217;s Jeff Pelizzaro: the, where&#8217;s the best place for people to go find that? Is it [00:54:00] Instagram Justin Bryant: or Instagram? Yeah. Working, working on a website right now, Instagram is the best. So it&#8217;s at the good bogey. Um, and you can kind of see, um, all the stuff, uh, created on there, uh, as well as kind of links to the stuff. If you fancy fancy to a printer shirt or something. So I Jeff Pelizzaro: think it&#8217;s interesting. Um, Before we were talking about your golf game and you said, I hate bogeys, hate them. And then your explanation of the good bogey, it&#8217;s like, it&#8217;s such a mental process of kind of getting over that. Like things don&#8217;t have to be perfect. Just kind of put it out there and get it out there. Same with the golf, with the golf game, right? Like put a swing on it, see where it goes, put another swing on it. I think that&#8217;s, that&#8217;s pretty cool. Um, so just golf wise for yourself now. Moving into end of 23, you&#8217;ve actually got a pretty big event coming up in the next couple of days here in St. Louis, um, which this episode will be out quite a bit after that event&#8217;s done. But what are some of the goals for 23, 24? I know you&#8217;ve got some, some things [00:55:00] that you&#8217;re kind of shooting for. And is it something that you kind of write down? I want to make this tournament or, you know, what does that look like for you? Justin Bryant: Yeah, I got it in my phone. Um, there&#8217;s definitely goals that I&#8217;ll have each year and then there&#8217;s kind of like things that I&#8217;m like, I want to accomplish. So, kind of the same mindset of putting the game plan together for tournament. Um, it&#8217;s the same for this. So, shooting, shooting big, you know, like I, I, um, I don&#8217;t know if I&#8217;m going to get into the exact ones but, I, you know, end of the day it&#8217;s kind of balancing of like, I have a job, I have a wife. Uh, and three kids, and I love, and I love spending, you know, time with them. So like, as my boys love the game, sometimes I&#8217;m, we&#8217;ll go to the range for three hours, and I&#8217;m like, I hit two balls, but to me, it&#8217;s like way more enjoyable to be with them, and interact with them, and help them if they, one kid likes the help, the other doesn&#8217;t. Um, and that&#8217;s completely fine. Um, so I try to kind of balance. That a little bit, but at the same time, it&#8217;s [00:56:00] like I&#8217;m signing up to the tournament to play the best I can. Um, and so, for me, that&#8217;s what it is. I&#8217;m just going to work. and family and golf. So, um, we&#8217;ll see what happens and fitness. There we go. No, I mean, that&#8217;s, that&#8217;s a huge part. That&#8217;s the foundation of playing good golf, especially at this age. Jeff Pelizzaro: So what does it look like? Kind of giving you a little trouble there, but you know, what does it look like right now? As far as like, what&#8217;s Kelly Kelly might be based on a little bet that we had that. You know, we had to institute exercise for her on because of something, but, uh, no, I mean, as far as what kind of a routine do you have? I know that you&#8217;ve always been, uh, you know, you&#8217;ve had your routines that you get up in the morning and do some different things. What does that look like for you now? Are there different things that you want to implement or, you know, what has worked for you in the past or Justin Bryant: whatnot? Yeah, so I&#8217;ve had [00:57:00] some back and neck stuff over the years, which, um, it&#8217;s gotten better, um, but then it&#8217;s like now working, sitting at a desk on a computer, it&#8217;s like that presents its own challenges, you know, and everyone else knows, uh, very well. So I think there&#8217;s really small stuff like standing at work, make sure I&#8217;m moving around. Um, I would say. Honestly gotten pretty lazy in the last year. Uh, let&#8217;s just call it what it is. Um, uh, my wife wakes up and gets after it. And, um, so it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s really cool to see that and kind of see the benefits of that. But, um, for me, it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s that too. So like right now. Like, understanding, like, if your body isn&#8217;t feeling good, like, forget golf, like, life just stinks, you know? Like, playing with the kids, feeling good. So, I think just understanding, um, that first and foremost, and then, like, I want to play good golf too. So, um, for me, it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s, um, a lot of [00:58:00] movements, you can say stretching, but kind of getting in positions of things that are gonna, um, help me feel good. So, things that you&#8217;ve taught me in terms of certain stretches. Um, you know, the basics of pushing and pulling, so, um, whether it&#8217;s push ups or things like that, and, um, you need to get into the gym more to do that, but, um, yeah. Making sure you&#8217;re feeling right so you can play right. Otherwise you&#8217;re compensating and you&#8217;re not feeling good. That&#8217;s Jeff Pelizzaro: tough for sure. All right. I got a couple questions to finish up with many people Probably don&#8217;t even know that you&#8217;ve been on the 18STRONG podcast. That&#8217;s right I mean one of the early early stages, so I don&#8217;t have this nice studio No, this wasn&#8217;t this wasn&#8217;t a thing back then. It was me in my back little room office or whatever But I I&#8217;m sure I asked you these questions, but we&#8217;re gonna ask them again. They may have been Change and some of the questions are different. First of all, Caddyshack or Happy Justin Bryant: Gilmore? Caddyshack. I mean, I love Happy Gilmore, too. But Caddyshack&#8217;s just a classic. I mean, [00:59:00] it&#8217;s it&#8217;s tough to beat. What&#8217;s what do you have like the actual like breakdown? I don&#8217;t I Jeff Pelizzaro: don&#8217;t have the numbers. I&#8217;ve said you need to hire somebody to go back and listen to each of them. I Justin Bryant: just feel like the found, like it, Happy Gilmore wouldn&#8217;t exist without Caddyshack. You know what I mean? I think you&#8217;re right. That humor. I bet Adam Sandler would say that too. Yeah, and it&#8217;s And I like Adam Sandler, and I love Happy Gilmore, but I mean, Caddyshack, I mean, I quote Caddyshack Whittemore and I quote Happy Gilmore, so I feel like that is the answer. Same. Jeff Pelizzaro: Alright, walk up song. If you could pick one to the first tee, what are you picking? Justin Bryant: You know, I did this actually in a Corner Fairy event, we did, I don&#8217;t remember picks. What I would pick now, man. What, wait, what do you, what would you pick? While I&#8217;m thinking about this? Jeff Pelizzaro: I&#8217;ve always said, uh, Beastie Boys, Sabotage. Yeah? Kind of depends on the mood though, I think. So, you know, Is this like a part three, part five walk up? I don&#8217;t know. Let&#8217;s say First Tee at St. Louis Country Club.[01:00:00] That&#8217;s a different vibe than I would probably go for. Let&#8217;s do that and then First Tee Justin Bryant: at Phoenix Open. Yeah, First Tee at Phoenix Open, man. That&#8217;s got to have some juice to it. Yeah. Um, first tea at Phoenix open, I&#8217;d probably do, uh, I&#8217;m going to say coming in hot by Andy Mineo. I&#8217;m going to cry. That&#8217;s the boy we play with. I play with the boys in the car a lot. It&#8217;s a very viral sound. So I&#8217;m going to go with that. St. Louis, we maybe go with like, you know, Mozart, Beethoven, something a little more classy. No, I probably, no, in all seriousness, probably go like the who. Um, Bob O&#8217;Reilly, you know, kind of good build up. Jeff Pelizzaro: Mellow. Yeah. Is there a book that you have read that&#8217;s influenced you, whether that be golf, that be, you know, just your overall philosophy that you have either recommended or would like to recommend to? Justin Bryant: Yeah, a good book. Outside of your book? Outside of my book, yes. He didn&#8217;t prompt me for that. Yeah. Um, man, I don&#8217;t read as much as I should, to be [01:01:00] honest. I read a ton before kids, and I don&#8217;t as much now. So for me, the Bible, I read. I read, um, and&#8230; Really that foundation of relationship with God and and understanding that so I would start with the Gospels If I would recommend to someone to check those out I think people have heard of them, but still it&#8217;s still good. It&#8217;s still good other books I mean in terms of like golf like Bob Rotel stuff&#8217;s really good I get in like some random books of like no one wants to read these Jeff Pelizzaro: Like, mindset, history, like what mindset Justin Bryant: I&#8217;m not a big like fiction person. So I like, yeah, understanding, you know, whether it&#8217;s numbers stuff or, um, just kind of how different people think. Um, so, but that&#8217;s kind of, I go to, I like to understand, like, uh, I was, I was an econ major in college and religion. So like, I like kind of the psychology or kind of [01:02:00] like understanding human behaviors, how people. Do things well or not well. So, anything that falls into that category, I just find really interesting. Jeff Pelizzaro: Who would be in your dream foursome? If you could go play golf with anybody, past, present. Who, who are you playing to pick, or who are you picking to play? Four or five hours with you can pick their brain. You can, Justin Bryant: um, I mean, I can give you two answers. Can I give you two? You can give me two. Okay. So answer number one is definitely my kids. I do it now and it&#8217;s just the best. It&#8217;s so fun. And they fight and there&#8217;s moments where you&#8217;re like, why are we doing this? But it&#8217;s the best. Um, if I was doing like the other foursome, I&#8217;m going to, I&#8217;m going to mix it up. I&#8217;m going to say, uh, so me, I&#8217;m going to go Adam Sandler. Um, we&#8217;ll get the, he has to hit his happy go more. We&#8217;ll get in there. Um, we&#8217;re going to go Bill Murray in there from Caddyshack. And then the last one to round out the four, who would be, uh, I&#8217;ll go Larry [01:03:00] David. Jeff Pelizzaro: Look at you. You&#8217;re going straight comedy. Justin Bryant: I just feel like that&#8217;d be like probably not high quality golf, but, and I don&#8217;t know if those people like each other. Maybe that&#8217;s like a disaster pairing, but I feel like there&#8217;d be a lot of, uh, a lot of, you know, entertainment value in that. That&#8217;d be a very, Jeff Pelizzaro: very entertaining round for sure. What&#8217;s a bucket list course that you would want to play? Like we said. Justin, we got the jet fueled up, we&#8217;re going tomorrow, where are you Justin Bryant: picking? There&#8217;s a lot. So, I, I played, um, our mutual, mutual friend, uh, Wheeler Frost, uh, went over for his graduation when he graduated from St. Andrews, but the old course was closed, so. Cause I think the Open was coming there in two weeks. I think that&#8217;s when Zach Johnson won. But we played like the New, we played Kings Barn, Carnoustie. And that was awesome. And I just love that. So I mean, to me, I know it&#8217;s cliche, but the old course, you want to play it. It&#8217;s like you&#8217;ve played it on video games and all stuff, but, uh, be that. But there&#8217;s, I mean, there&#8217;s so much good golf. Like I want to play Painted Dunes and stuff, uh, stateside. So. There&#8217;s a long list. Yeah. Long list. Like Jeff Pelizzaro: [01:04:00] most of us. What&#8217;s the best golf advice you&#8217;ve ever been given? Justin Bryant: Best golf advice I&#8217;ve ever been given? Um, um, care less about it. Like, care less. Like, think less. I think the more, I think there&#8217;s that fine line between every round. of like, you know, if you&#8217;re scaled from 0 to 10 on where you care, where your energy level is for that round, you kind of have to figure out where you play your best. So some people play best if they&#8217;re at a 10, best if they&#8217;re super mellowed out. I&#8217;m kind of in this like in between, I would say like a six or seven where like I&#8217;m, I really care, but I gotta pretend like I don&#8217;t. So, um, so for me kind of just like, Hey, just don&#8217;t care as much for me has been. Yeah. Really beneficial. Yeah. We&#8217;re, Jeff Pelizzaro: we&#8217;re starting to. So my son is 15 getting into golf. You, you met Sam before and I&#8217;m, I&#8217;m really finding that like when he&#8217;s not playing well, you can see he&#8217;s [01:05:00] just not enjoying being out there. Right. And, and so just trying to kind of get in, I mean, we all kind of, or I have struggled with this too, but it&#8217;s like, man, you have to realize that like, this is pretty good that we&#8217;re out here just playing. It&#8217;s just me, you, grandpa, you know, uncle Dino. We, you can&#8217;t let a couple of bad shots like ruin your whole day here. So, um, trying to work our way through that and where he doesn&#8217;t come home and be grumpy and Justin Bryant: the best exercise I&#8217;ve ever done for that. And it&#8217;s under this is. Like, just write down on a piece of paper, so I wrote it down on my phone, of like, when I play well, I do blank, and write a couple, and then like, when I play poorly, I do blank. And real quick, you&#8217;ll understand what you need to do. And I&#8217;ll read those, I don&#8217;t know, 50 times throughout the year. Like, if I&#8217;m not feeling well, like, before, like, I had a bad rating session on the way to the tee, I&#8217;ll just read that, and it&#8217;s like, alright, I&#8217;m just gonna do, I&#8217;m gonna do what I do when I play well, and see what happens, and like, you&#8217;ll be surprised how much that helps. That&#8217;s cool. It&#8217;ll just change your mind. And you may still play bad, but you&#8217;ll be in the [01:06:00] right mindset, Jeff Pelizzaro: which is at least the start. Alright, last one. What&#8217;s a social media account that you follow that you think would be fun for the 18STRONG crew to follow as well? Justin Bryant: Social media account? There&#8217;s like so many good ones that I feel like have popped up and are just really good. So obviously the Good Bodhi I&#8217;ve heard is like phenomenal content. A good social media account I&#8217;m thinking of ones I&#8217;ve seen recently that aren&#8217;t necessarily the best. Um, but I, I try to find stuff that, um, people that are putting out stuff that like will inspire you and you can kind of rip off of. So whatever that is. So like I&#8217;m in marketing at Repsoto and like, I saw there&#8217;s, there&#8217;s one account that basically is like, these are the top, I don&#8217;t know what it is, so sorry, I&#8217;m not giving them credit, but like these are the top ads I saw this week. And so for me, that&#8217;s the kind of stuff I like love is like, okay. That person did it. I don&#8217;t need to reinvent the wheel. I can like [01:07:00] reiterate off that. And it&#8217;s the same thing I do with like the good bogey designs. It&#8217;s like, no thoughts really original. It&#8217;s like, oh, I like a little bit of what Jeff&#8217;s doing over here. I like a little bit of what&#8217;s going on over here. And merging that together. So, there&#8217;s a ton of good creators in the golf space. I really like Radrey Golf. I think that, uh, R A D R Y on Instagram. I think his stuff&#8217;s really creative. It&#8217;s, it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s, and it&#8217;s good. Um, so way better than mine. Um, but it&#8217;s a cool brand of fouls, so people should check it out. Jeff Pelizzaro: Check it out. All right. Best place to follow you and even your golf journey. Would that be the good bogey? Do you post stuff about, you know, what&#8217;s going on in your Justin Bryant: golf life? Yeah, I do a little bit. Um, so yeah, at the good bogey is the best Instagram. Um, if you want to see what, see what pictures of me and my family, I&#8217;m at Justin D. Bryan on Instagram, but that&#8217;s not going to be as exciting majority of people. Uh, so I would check out at the good bogey and yeah, that&#8217;s. I&#8217;ll update, um, if I&#8217;m doing more kind of like national stuff, I&#8217;ll kind of have people [01:08:00] follow a little bit along, uh, on their kind of behind the scenes stuff. So cool. Jeff Pelizzaro: And then hopefully soon, uh, you&#8217;re going to be giving me some tutorials on the, uh, wrap soda and we post a little content on, you know, you could. Rib on me a little bit. Yeah, we gotta, we gotta, we Justin Bryant: gotta see, we&#8217;re gonna, we&#8217;re gonna say like, we&#8217;ll get you the 7 iron out and you got to call your distance on there. We&#8217;re gonna see how well you know your numbers. Jeff Pelizzaro: Okay, that&#8217;ll be an exercise. All right, man, really appreciate your time coming in and, uh, look forward to watching you over the next, you know, year or so and see what&#8217;s, what&#8217;s happened with these goals and where you&#8217;re going. Justin Bryant: Yeah, thanks, Jeff. All right, brother. Jeff Pelizzaro: Thanks for joining us this week on the 18STRONG Podcast with our good friend, Justin Bryant. We wish Justin all the luck in his upcoming future events. In his amateur journeys on the golf course, if you want any more information on Justin, the good bogey, or anything we talked about in this episode, just go to 18strong. com. This is episode number 350. We&#8217;ll talk to you again in the upcoming weeks with some great guests. [01:09:00] Train hard, practice smart, and play better golf. Episode Partners: LINKSOUL:&nbsp;For your 20% discount on LINKSOUL gear, go to&nbsp;18strong.com/linksoul&nbsp;or click the logo above. LivPur: For your 15% discount on LivPur products, go to&nbsp;LivPur.com&nbsp;(or click the logo above) and use the code &#8220;18STRONG&#8220;. 1st Phorm: Try any of the 1st Phorm products with FREE SHIPPING, go to 1stphorm.com/18strong.com More Cool Stuff to Check Out: To continue the conversation and ask any questions you may have, head over to the&nbsp;18STRONG Movement group on Facebook. 18STRONG Pro Shop (Get your 18STRONG gear!) 18STRONG Resources (All of the cool stuff we recommend: products, books, golf stuff, etc &#8211; and discount codes for the 18STRONG Crew)

Guest: Tommy Kuhl, Professional Golfer and University of Illinois AlumniHost: Jeff PelizzaroEpisode Number: 349Podcast: The 18STRONG Podcast SUMMARYIn this episode, Jeff Pelizzaro chats with Tommy Kuhl, a rising star in the world of professional golf. Tommy shares his journey from playing collegiate golf at the University of Illinois to transitioning into the professional realm, specifically the PGA Tour Canada. The conversation delves into the challenges, learning experiences, and the support system that has guided Tommy through this significant transition. MAIN TOPICS Introduction to Tommy Kuhl Tommy&#8217;s recent transition to professional golf after a successful stint at the University of Illinois. His experiences and challenges in the PGA Tour Canada. Tommy&#8217;s Collegiate Experience The prestige and challenges of playing for the University of Illinois. Team successes, individual achievements, and the influence of Coach Small. PGA Tour University System The benefits and structure of the PGA Tour University system for college players. Tommy&#8217;s insights into the system and its impact on his professional journey. Challenges of Professional Golf The mental and physical toll of continuous travel and tournaments. The financial challenges and the importance of enjoying the journey. Support System and Future Goals Tommy&#8217;s reliance on Coach Small and other Illini alumni for guidance. His aspirations and goals for the future in professional golf. RESOURCES MENTIONED Linksoul – The preferred brand of apparel for golfers. Mentioned as a sponsor in the episode. PGA Tour University – A system that aids college players in transitioning to professional golf. CONCLUSIONTommy Kuhl provides a candid look into the world of transitioning from collegiate to professional golf. His insights, challenges, and the support system that has been instrumental in his journey offer a unique perspective for aspiring golfers and fans alike. Tune into the 18STRONG Podcast for more in-depth conversations with golf&#8217;s rising stars. Want the full episode transcript? (click the &#8220;+&#8221; ????????) Jeff Pelizzaro: [00:00:00] The 18STRONG Podcast episode number 349 with Tommy Kuhl, professional golfer. What&#8217;s up guys. Welcome back to the 18STRONG Podcast, where we are here to help you build a stronger game. This week we have on Tommy Kuhl, recently turned professional golfer that played golf at the University of Illinois, had a great career there playing for coach small. He And he&#8217;s now transitioning over into the professional world, playing on the PGA tour Canada. And we talk about Tommy&#8217;s experience going from the collegiate game. And everything that goes on there with all the resources that he has there. And then now becoming his own, basically his own [00:01:00] business as a golfer. And now having to figure out and navigate through the professional world. Through the travel, through the fitness, and figuring out his routines. We talked today with Tommy about some of the experiences he&#8217;s already had. Playing in the John Deere Classic, which is his first. PGA Tour event that he&#8217;s ever played in. Also a bit of a situation that he was in, in a US Open qualifier, where he ended up having to DQ himself. You may have heard that story and seen that on, the Monday Q or some of the other golf publications. that put that out where Tommy actually called a penalty on himself after shooting a course record at Illini Country Club and had to DQ himself because of rules infraction. So we go through all of the different situations that Tommy&#8217;s been in, what it&#8217;s been like to transition, and it&#8217;s just a great conversation with a young up and coming golfer that is looking to make his dream come true on the PGA Tour. Real quick, I want to say thanks to our sponsors and partners here. at 18STRONG. First is Link Soul. Link [00:02:00] Soul is our preferred brand of apparel and we&#8217;ve been working with Link Soul for a long time. They now not only provide our basically entire wardrobe when we&#8217;re on the golf course in casual settings, but even our Ryder cups that we have with our college buddies, all the golf trips we go on, everybody is now wearing Link Soul in our crew. And that&#8217;s pretty cool to see. You can go check out all of Link Soul&#8217;s gear. At 18STRONG. com slash link soul, and you&#8217;re going to get a 20% off discount on anything in your cart. If you go ahead and click the link right there. So go check out link soul again. They&#8217;ve got everything from golf apparel, shorts, hoodies, polos, button ups, everything that you need for the golf course and beyond 18STRONG. com slash link soul. Okay. Let&#8217;s get into the conversation with Tommy cool. Tommy Kuhl: So Jeff Pelizzaro: are you back home right now? Tommy Kuhl: Are you sorry? Yeah. So I&#8217;m actually in Windsor, Ontario. we have an event this week up here and then, I have two off [00:03:00] weeks starting next week. We&#8217;re on a four week stretch. This is the last one. So I&#8217;m going to finish strong. All right, Jeff Pelizzaro: sweet. So yeah, you had a good weekend last weekend, right? Yeah, I Tommy Kuhl: did. Yep. Got back on track. just finally some good golf. So it felt good to put together some rounds and Jeff Pelizzaro: build off of it. where was that event? Tommy Kuhl: it was in Toronto, TPC Toronto. Jeff Pelizzaro: Okay. Third place finish? third place. Yeah. All right. so where does that put you right now? Order of merit? And, if you could even explain to people, like where? How the PGA Tour of Canada, what gets you to the next step and what&#8217;s your Yeah, Tommy Kuhl: basically, PGA Tour Canada, you&#8217;re playing for the top 5. top 5 on the money list, or the points list, I should say, gets your Corn Fairy Tour card at the end of the season. And we&#8217;re on week, I believe it&#8217;s 6 right now, 6 or 7. and, I, last week, helped me a lot. this tour is very top heavy with points. First or third. I made a clutch [00:04:00] birdie on hole 17, which bumped me up to solo third, got me a lot of points. And, I moved up, I think, 46 spots and I&#8217;m on 19th right now. I was outside the top 60, didn&#8217;t play my best golf, early this season, but, felt good to finally get a good finish. And, like I said, just going to keep building off of it and carry that momentum into this week. Jeff Pelizzaro: Nice. so you said there&#8217;s Four weeks left. Is that right? yes, Tommy Kuhl: this week and then three more after this. Jeff Pelizzaro: so a couple good finishes could, could pop you up towards the top there. and then that you said top five order AmeriCos to corn fairy tour, right? Correct. Tommy Kuhl: I believe first place gets their full corn cherry card and then two through five get conditional status. So that should get you in the first couple events of next season. just, that&#8217;s the goal for everyone up here, and a lot of guys up here are playing for top 25 on the Order of Merit, which gets you into second stage of Korn Ferry qualifying. But, I&#8217;m actually already exempt in the second stage through, the new PGA Tour [00:05:00] University. System. Jeff Pelizzaro: Okay, cool. so yeah, explain that a little bit to us. I want to get into, your time at Illinois and obviously that&#8217;s what kind of got you to where you are. You&#8217;re having a really strong year. Last year at Illinois, PGA Tour University, which I was just talking to, our buddy, Justin Barjay, who is now working with PGA Tour University. And, I know that you know him very well. It sounds like you actually saw him today. but tell us a little bit about like how does PGA Tour University, what does that do? How does that work? Because that&#8217;s a fairly new thing, right? Tommy Kuhl: Yes. I want to say it&#8217;s three years, three years old. they started, three years ago,they made this new PGA Tour University and it gives,college seniors, you stay in school, and you play for the rankings. they go off world amateur golf ranking points, wagger,and it only counts for college events and, PGA Tour events. Based on how you play in college tournaments, the number of lagger points you get based on the finish and that, that goes into the system. obviously, like [00:06:00] everything, the better you play, the higher up you&#8217;ll be. there&#8217;s not much to it, play good golf and you&#8217;ll be up on those Jeff Pelizzaro: rankings. And so the top spots at PGA Tour University. do they get their tour card? And then some guys go Corn Fairy. What does that break down? Tommy Kuhl: yes. they&#8217;re making changes always to it. But, this was the first year that number one on PGA Tour U got his PGA Tour card. this&#8230; Stud by the name of Ludwig Eber, went to Texas Tech, had a heck of a college career, and,he gained his full PGA Tour card, and he&#8217;s off and running, he&#8217;s killing it right now, and, and then 2 through 10 get, Corn Fairy status. I think 2 through 5 get their Corn Fairy Tour card, and then 6 through 10 get Conditional status, I believe. and then 11 through 20 get full status on PGA Tour Canada. Jeff Pelizzaro: Okay, awesome. Yeah, I was, that&#8217;s why I was texting with, Justin today. We&#8217;re gonna hopefully bring him on the show too, so he can go a little deeper into [00:07:00] what PGA Tour University is and really the whole program behind it and what that&#8217;s doing for Tommy Kuhl: the game. it&#8217;s funny you brought it up. I, like you said, I actually saw him today. I know he&#8217;s traveling to events. I think that&#8217;s his new role, just going to events, learning more about, what it&#8217;s like up here. and, this game, professional golf, amateur golf, it&#8217;s always changing. And, it was great to see him today. And obviously he has a better idea of what&#8217;s going on in PGA Tour University. But, what a platform for college players, but it&#8217;s, It makes players stay in college, work for something and have a job out of college, I was talking to him today. I was like, if I just graduated, two months ago, what would I be doing now? Probably just chasing the mini tours and, PGA Tour University gave me the opportunity to come up here and, get a jumpstart professional goal. Yeah. Jeff Pelizzaro: So at the end of this season, Canadian Tour, if by chance you do not make it in that top five. Are there other tournaments that you&#8217;ll then be, like, looking to play in the interim before you get to, next year&#8217;s Canadian Tour or [00:08:00] Corn Ferry Tour, going through Q School and things like that? What are the other avenues that you can then take, even just to earn paychecks and make money? Because, I know everybody out there is, you guys aren&#8217;t rolling in the dough like the PGA Tour guys. people think PGA Tour Canada, they think. That sounds really big, but I know that, it&#8217;s a struggle to get out there, stay out there, make money, and make all the ends meet when you&#8217;re traveling, how many weeks a year. Tommy Kuhl: Exactly, yeah. I&#8217;m sure, like I said, I&#8217;m new to this, so I&#8217;m learning as I go, but, I&#8217;ve heard, the guys up here who&#8217;ve been out here, grinding it out have said there&#8217;s some pretty good mini tour events during the off season, down in Florida. I know there&#8217;s a minor league golf tour down there, and then, out west, there&#8217;s a new tour called the Asher Tour, and they provide, players with good opportunities to play and some decent purses, I&#8217;m sure during the off season, I&#8217;ll, sign up for a couple of those and just stay fresh. and for me, more than anything, I want to be out playing more than practicing. Obviously, practice is important, but I think to go out and test your game and,that&#8217;s where [00:09:00] I see, the, Biggest improvement in my game is going out and actually doing it. So I&#8217;m sure a player knows and,see if that prepares me for Q school. I&#8217;m sure Jeff Pelizzaro: it will. What have been some of the biggest changes for you switching from, you&#8217;re playing at one of the most elusive collegiate organizations at Illinois University. you&#8217;ve got all tons of resources there. You&#8217;ve got crazy practice facilities. You&#8217;ve got an incredible coach. You have all of these different, things at your disposal and now you&#8217;re a business. You are Tommy Kuhl Incorporated, right? Like you&#8217;re now looking to make your ends meet and make your way onto the tour. What have been some of the biggest changes and were you prepared for some of these? Obviously you have a lot of guys you can lean on that have taken that step too. Tommy Kuhl: It&#8217;s been a huge learning experience for me, even these first&#8230; Six weeks, it&#8217;s I mean i&#8217;m playing for money now, which is One thing I mean at the end of the day, it&#8217;s golf, you know You still got to go out and produce scores, but playing for money and just the [00:10:00] travel That&#8217;s one thing i&#8217;ve learned is just you know How expensive the travel is as a professional golfer and you know how hard the travel is on your body. You know physically how hard that can be and I went through a stretch there. where I wasn&#8217;t playing great golf either and it&#8217;s hard on you mentally as well. you&#8217;re not making anything when you miss the cuts and it&#8217;s hard. So you just got to find a balance, mentally and just keep going. like I said, just a huge learning experience and I&#8217;m learning every single day I&#8217;m out here. it&#8217;s good to have guys I know out here who have, who&#8217;ve been through it. And obviously, Coach Small and a lot of the Illini moms, I lean on them for support, but,I think more than anything, you just got to enjoy it. Yeah, all of us up here in Canada probably don&#8217;t want to be, this isn&#8217;t where we want to be, playing for the rest of our lives, but you got to find a way to enjoy it and, enjoy the grind of it and, keep that end goal of making the PGA Tour and winning on the PGA Tour in the back of your mind. Jeff Pelizzaro: Have you had a chance to head home at all during this stretch? I know you had a couple [00:11:00] tournaments which we&#8217;ll get to in a little bit. You had a big tournament that you went and played in, some qualifiers and stuff. We&#8217;ll touch on that. But have you actually had a chance to do you get a couple weeks off or a week off in Tommy Kuhl: between? It&#8217;s been pretty constant going. I&#8217;ve tried straight from this college season. We had regionals, nationals. And then I actually had the opportunity to represent the United States in the Arnold Palmer Cup. So I went straight from nationals to Arnold Palmer Cup and then straight from Arnold Palmer Cup to Canada. So I&#8217;ve been on the road. I want to say this is my 10th week in a row. Sprinkled in one day at home in there, when I got the opportunity to put in the PGA Tour event, but man, it&#8217;s just the constant grind, it&#8217;s hard, not a lot of time at home, which, is hard, but, like I said, you just got to enjoy and embrace the travel. Jeff Pelizzaro: Who are a few of the guys that you&#8217;ve been able to, reach out to? Obviously, you&#8217;ve got some PGA Tour guys that went through Illinois, and what&#8217;s some of the advice that they&#8217;ve maybe given you? [00:12:00] Regarding this big change in the travel and all the different things that you&#8217;re going through. Tommy Kuhl: I said, I would say the biggest person I&#8217;ve leaned on is Coach Small. Obviously, he&#8217;s been a huge role model for me. he&#8217;s someone I look up to and someone I respect a ton and he&#8217;s been through it. I think that&#8217;s why you see the program have so much success and, it&#8217;s because of him. he&#8217;s been through it. He&#8217;s been through the professional golf grind and I found myself calling him. A lot, just reaching out to him. It&#8217;s always good to hear his voice and the biggest thing he keeps telling me is, this is what you work for. This is what you&#8217;ve wanted to play professional golf and just more than anything go out and enjoy it You know, I think that&#8217;s one thing with golf that sometimes players can get wrapped up in this yeah, it&#8217;s hard on you. Sometimes it&#8217;s very hard, but you just got to find a way to enjoy it Enjoy the challenge of you know being up here competing, and just really embrace Jeff Pelizzaro: everything. take me [00:13:00] back to your Illinois days. So you were there five years, right? what did that trajectory look like? I know you and I had a chance to actually work together a little bit before you went to Illinois. it&#8217;s been really cool to be able to follow you and keep up with, what&#8217;s going on in your career. And, from the time you got to Illinois, Give us a little bit of a highlight reel, Tommy Kuhle highlight reel of, where things started, how, what it was like going there, knowing you&#8217;re going into this huge program. obviously it&#8217;s a huge honor that, and showed that you had tremendous talent going in. When you got there, was there a little bit of shell shock, or did you feel like you fit right in, fit into the family? How did those next five years play out? Tommy Kuhl: Yeah, as a junior golfer from central Illinois, it was always a dream of mine to go play for the University of Illinois and coach Small. as a kid, I remember going to the Illinois golf camps with my brother and, getting to know coach Small and, get familiarity with, the university, the campus, the facilities. I always told my parents this was, That&#8217;s what I wanted was, that&#8217;s what I [00:14:00] wanted to work for is getting a scholarship to play for coach in the University of Illinois. I had a decent junior career, committed very early. I think I committed my sophomore or freshman year of high school. I had a decent junior career, won the state high school championship twice. And,going into my freshman year, it was a wake up call. I got there my freshman year and I didn&#8217;t know anything. that&#8217;s one way to put it. I thought I did, as a young player and I did my, such a big learning curve, to figure out and,it took me a while to, to learn as a selfish junior thinking he knows everything, and as I started to mature and as I got older in the university and, in the program, I started to see results more or less just listening to coach and what he Jeff Pelizzaro: preaches. when did you really start to get into the rotation of playing there? how many guys are on the actual squad? And then how many play in the individual events? Tommy Kuhl: Yeah, [00:15:00] so we, so golf teams usually have around, I would say, 8 to 12 people, on the team. Our coach usually keeps our team around 8 to 10. fluctuated in that number of people. Through my time there and, freshman year, I didn&#8217;t play much in the lineup, obviously in college events, you have, let&#8217;s say, 10 guys on the team, and you do qualifying when you get there and throughout the year to see who&#8217;s in the lineup, five play in the lineup, and then depending on the tournament, coach might have the opportunity to take a few individuals, and those individuals, don&#8217;t get to play, for the team&#8217;s success. Basically, you&#8217;re just there playing, by yourself, which, that was me a lot of my freshman and sophomore year. I had a few opportunities to be in the lineup, and it was a huge learning experience for me. but, actually, my freshman year, I didn&#8217;t play the Big Ten championship. And then one of our fifth guy got hurt right before regionals and I got subbed [00:16:00] in for regionals and then we made it through and I got in the lineup for nationals as well. that was really the first time I was in the lineup and,it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s hard, man. It&#8217;s just, it&#8217;s hard to make the lineup at a program like that. It&#8217;s, you got to bring it every day and, that&#8217;s one thing I Jeff Pelizzaro: learned. What were some of the biggest successes that you guys had, both as a team and then you individually, in your five Tommy Kuhl: years at? as a team, we made it to the national championship three out of the four years. Obviously, COVID year, they didn&#8217;t, that season got cut short. But, we made nationals three out of the four years. We, er, sorry, nationals, yeah, three out of the four years. And then we made match play in nationals two out of the three years we were in. And that was probably, the biggest stage of golf I&#8217;ve been in, in college or even amateur golf. so that was really fun. just getting to chase that national championship with a group of guys, that&#8217;s what you work for all year. we, we, gave it all we had came up short, but,[00:17:00] definitely a very cool experience. And then individually, I never won in college. That was always my goal is to, get that individual win. obviously for me, I was more focused on the team success, but you do want to see individual results, but,had a couple of runner ups, But never got that win. So still searching for it. Jeff Pelizzaro: So I know that,you had a very successful last year. I was told to ask you, which are you more proud of being a first team All American or an academic All American? And I think that question came from, Tommy Kuhl: Oh, that&#8217;s a good one. Man, school for me was always hard, so it&#8217;s an honor to get the Academic All American, to be honest. I honestly put in a lot of work towards school, and to see, see me get that award is pretty special, and I know it means a lot to me and my family, but,First Team All American&#8217;s also a very big. Big honor to have and, honestly, if you would have told me I would have been a first team all american [00:18:00] my freshman year, I don&#8217;t know if I would have believed you, I always dreamed of it, as a junior golfer and obviously in college and that&#8217;s what you work for, but, man, I really don&#8217;t think, it, just a lot of hard work, honestly, and, very special year. Jeff Pelizzaro: What was that balance like? School, obviously, you put a lot of time and effort into your schoolwork. But then, playing golf at a Division I school like Illinois, many people equate it to a full time job. So what was it like to balance those things out, and what processes or routines did you find that were most beneficial to help you do that? Tommy Kuhl: Yeah, it&#8217;s very difficult, and I would say one thing that helped me more than anything is just the resources that the University of Illinois offers to student athletes, specifically golf. we have an athletic academic counselor, Sherry Clapp. I don&#8217;t know if she&#8217;ll listen to this, but big shout out to her because she helps our team, [00:19:00] more than anything of just staying organized and making, enrolling for classes and just adjustment to college very easy. So having her was a huge advantage. And, I can equate my academic success to her, but, just one thing with golf, too, is tournaments. You&#8217;re gone for four or five days at a time, during a week when you&#8217;re traveling for tournament. you&#8217;re missing class, you&#8217;re doing homework on the road, whereas other sports, let&#8217;s say football or basketball, you&#8217;re gone for a night or two, that was one of the biggest things I learned is just saying organized communicating with your professors and finding the balance of one when to practice golf and when to study so I always, I got into a very good routine in college, and just stuck with me. Jeff Pelizzaro: is it nice now that you don&#8217;t have all the classes and everything that you have to take? I would assume you probably feel like you have some more free time in [00:20:00] order to put the time into your training, your practice, those kind of things. And have you still maintained a pretty solid, regimented routine? Or do you find yourself almost being like, I&#8217;ve got&#8230; More time and trying to figure out how to really piece those things together to really get your plan together for the future Tommy Kuhl: Yeah, i&#8217;m glad you brought that up because honestly, that&#8217;s the thing i&#8217;m trying to Focus on right now and learn is what&#8217;s my routine and obviously it depends where you&#8217;re at up here in channel, it&#8217;s hard to get into routine because for me, I know you focus on the fitness side of golf, but that&#8217;s been very important for me in my routine and how I feel physically and mentally. so I&#8217;m trying to find a routine that works good for me and working out, nutrition, golf practice, and then my free time. The free time is the biggest. The biggest thing I&#8217;m trying to learn is just what am I going to do to fill that free time because you have a lot of it up here. and lucky to have a lot of guys up here to [00:21:00] be doing things with, but,I think having a routine is probably the most important thing. and if you talk to a lot of professional golfers, they&#8217;ll say the same. What does Jeff Pelizzaro: your fitness routine kind of look like right now? Obviously you guys don&#8217;t have The same kind of resources that the PGA Tour do. Do you have any kind of a trail or anything, or is it more local gyms that you guys have access to, those type of things? Tommy Kuhl: Correct. Yeah, the PGA Tour can actually gives us, they&#8217;ll have three gyms a week, maybe one that we have access to, but usually Those are for the guy. I&#8217;m able to use them, but a lot of guys do Airbnbs. I&#8217;ve been doing hotels, so I&#8217;ve been just working out in the hotel gym. Obviously, they&#8217;re not the best resources for, from the fitness side of things, but, I&#8217;m easy. I just find a way to, get my body moving and I like to just focus on more of the mobility side of things right now. I do a lot of stretching and mobility before I work out or, maybe the [00:22:00] Monday of the week just to, after travel, I like to get my body moving, the blood flowing and just like I said, just trying to find that routine, which, what works Jeff Pelizzaro: best for me. When you guys were at Illinois, was the physical training a big part of your season, or was that more, prior to, because obviously in season you&#8217;re traveling a lot, but, I assume you have a dedicated strength coach or trainer that&#8217;s helping you guys up there. Yeah, Tommy Kuhl: so we actually worked out, I want to say three times in the off season. we were in the gym mandatory, and then, In season, we were two days a week, but, for me, those were the, strength days. So I would go in, I would four or five times a week, on the other days and just get mobility work and get some cardio work in. And for me, as I mentioned, just the routine of it, I feel. best mentally when I get in, that rhythm of waking up early, going to the gym, and then I&#8217;m able to go to class and [00:23:00] practice. I just like to stick to what I like and what I know. So Jeff Pelizzaro: it&#8217;s working so far. So just keep dialing in that routine. Let&#8217;s take a little break here to thank our partners over at Live Pure. Live Pure is a hydration product. That you are going to want to have in your golf bag in your gym bag because it&#8217;s going to handle anything that you need When it comes to your hydration, it&#8217;s got the electrolytes you need It&#8217;s going to help replenish your system on the hot muggy days, which we&#8217;re already starting to have here a little bit in st Louis, but they&#8217;ve got the energy. They&#8217;ve got the hydrate and they&#8217;ve got the recovery They&#8217;re going to handle everything that you need whether you&#8217;re on the golf course. You&#8217;re in the gym. You&#8217;re sweating it out You want to make sure that you have live pure All you have to do is tear open one of the pre made little packs, dump it right in with the water, and you&#8217;re set. They&#8217;ve got incredible flavors, including making blue raspberry a flavor for all of the products. They&#8217;ve got you covered. So go to LivePur.com. That&#8217;s L I V P U [00:24:00] R. com. Use the code 18STRONG to get your discount on every order that you place. And use LivePur to champion your day. I wanna talk to, you had a little bit of, 15 minutes of fame recently. a couple of times actually. one was a bit of a situation that I think many people applauded you for in the US Open qualifier. So take me back to&#8230; to that event at Illini Country Club, is that right? correct. Yeah, so you, you shoot a course record in a qualify, U. S. Open qualifier, and, you take the story from there. Tommy Kuhl: Yeah, U. S. Open local qualifying each year. It&#8217;s obviously every golfer&#8217;s dream to make the U. S. Open and compete, for a spot in that prestigious field. And, I had to go through the local process of it. And, a couple of teammates drove up there and, played a great round of golf. I shot bogey free nine under, My best run of the year and thought I had it. I thought I was in [00:25:00] One of my roommates was actually in a playoff to get the last spot and me and a couple teammates were walking Following him and I just mentioned to the guys like how hard it was to putt on the aerated greens You know the Midwest didn&#8217;t have a good spring as far as weather So a lot of the greens in the area weren&#8217;t Healed fully. and there were a few, or the greens were aerated and they weren&#8217;t filled in yet. The and I mentioned to one of my teammates how hard it was to put on the aerated greens and he mentioned, but yeah, it was hard &#8217;cause you couldn&#8217;t fix &#8217;em. And at that moment I honestly, I, it was the worst feeling ever. &#8217;cause I, throughout the day I was fixing &#8217;em and, didn&#8217;t know the rule. I didn&#8217;t know. with the new rule changes that you can, fix spike marks, tap down spike marks. I thought you could fix them, obviously, and you couldn&#8217;t, and, I went to rules official told him what I was doing throughout the day and Ultimately ended up dq&#8217;ing [00:26:00] myself. very unfortunate, but I tell people when they ask me You know, it comes down to me like nothing on the course nothing on the rules official nothing on the tournament i&#8217;m a golfer. This is what I do for a living. I should know the rules, so it falls on me. Yeah, it&#8217;s probably not the best rule, but that&#8217;s golf. That&#8217;s life. definitely learn from Jeff Pelizzaro: it. I can&#8217;t imagine that moment when that light bulb went off in your head and you&#8217;re like, just that sinking feeling of oh man, and I think myself, I remember sending you a text and I&#8217;m sure you got so many messages from other people like that. Just the integrity of that moment speaks so highly of your personality. but also just the game of golf itself, right? And that&#8217;s probably one of the reasons why you love this game why so many of us love this game and the fact that you did that i&#8217;m sure you got a lot of messages from people applauding that move You obviously got a lot of I had several articles written about it. What was that like, social media wise? Did you [00:27:00] get a lot of people reaching out to you and different interviews and things like that? Tommy Kuhl: Yeah, I got so many people reaching out. It was almost very overwhelming and it was at a time right before we were starting, regionals. I had to shy away a couple interviews just because it was almost too much and I was focused on the team and making it to the national championship and winning the national championship. I answered a lot of people, but I just put it past me after a few days and I was just like, it happened, it&#8217;s in the past and let&#8217;s move on. But,I did have a lot of people reaching out and just, Sending their thoughts to me. I, and I told everyone it&#8217;s life, right? it&#8217;s on me. Let&#8217;s, definitely gonna learn from it. Jeff Pelizzaro: That&#8217;s awesome. And not only was it a, nine under round, that was a course record there, right? It Tommy Kuhl: was, yeah. So I don&#8217;t know if they kept it or not, but in my heart, in my head,I had the course record there. Hey, do you Jeff Pelizzaro: ever play there before? Tommy Kuhl: yeah, I&#8217;ve played there a couple times. [00:28:00] Gotcha. Yeah, and it&#8217;s a great course. And one thing with the media that I just was a little frustrated with was just a lot of it was towards a line at Country Club and, oh, they shouldn&#8217;t be aerating their greens. the matter of fact is every course has to aerate their greens for them to be healthy. it just, it was unfortunate, all the course in the area had the same problem. nothing on the line at Country Club. Great course, great venue for a local qualifier. Jeff Pelizzaro: so then not too long after that really, you had another pretty cool opportunity to play in your first, was this your first PGA Tour event, the John Deere Classic? Correct. Yeah, first one. And so how did that transpire? How did you get into the John Tommy Kuhl: Deere? the John Deere Classic does a great job of giving, young guys right out of college opportunities, to play. make&#8230; Make their first pj tour start obviously jordan spieth he was a winner at the John Deere classic as a young gun. And there&#8217;s been [00:29:00] Handful of illinois guys that have gotten the opportunity to play in the john Deere classic and start their pro career you know starting the year that was one of my goals that I had was Potentially get the sponsors exemption with john Deere classic and I knew that I had to you know Play well to get it. It wasn&#8217;t just going to be like I&#8217;m a local kid. They&#8217;re, hopefully they give it to me. I wanted to earn it. And, after I had a really good fifth year, at the University of Illinois, I sent in a letter and, they, they got back to me two weeks before the tournament and, it was pretty special moment for me and my caddy. Jeff Pelizzaro: Set the scene for us a little bit when you got there. What were the nerves like? What was, what did it feel like? and then tell us a little bit about how you played out there and how you feel like you performed on that stage. Tommy Kuhl: it was an incredible week. Obviously, it was my first PGA Tour event, so I didn&#8217;t really know what to expect. And I didn&#8217;t have many expectations going into the week. I actually missed the cut in [00:30:00] Canada the week before, so if I were to make the cut, which obviously I&#8217;ve, I&#8217;m never planning to miss the cut or hope for that, but it was almost a blessing in disguise of travel and getting there and just. Just the run I was on with tournaments, it almost worked out perfect that I could get down to Silvis, Quad Cities area on Sunday night, play nine holes on Sunday, and then practice around Monday, Tuesday, and then right into the tournament. what a week. a PGA Tour event, I quickly learned that this is the lifestyle I want to live and, it&#8217;s always going to be in the back of my mind just being there and with the fans and how tour events are set up. that&#8217;s what&#8217;s going to keep pushing me, to make it there. And, I&#8217;m glad I got the opportunity to compete. to compete there. And, just, and the support I had, it&#8217;s it was an hour and 20 minutes from my hometown, and central Illinois. And the amount of people I had out there supporting me, it was,pretty special. It just put in, put everything [00:31:00] into perspective of how lucky I am to first off be playing this game, but also how many people there are behind me supporting me and,helping me Jeff Pelizzaro: reach my goal. So unfortunately you didn&#8217;t make a cut, but how do you feel like you played? How do you feel like you, you stacked up to the competition out there? Tommy Kuhl: yeah, so I shot one under the first round, even the second round. Looking at the stats, I want to say I was, I think I was 8 strokes gained approach, which is a crazy good stat, which is not good, given the fact I didn&#8217;t make the cut, which means I didn&#8217;t make many putts, which I didn&#8217;t, that was frustrating, but,I felt like I played fairly well, T to green. and I felt pretty comfortable out there. Obviously, the first two nerves were there and just getting comfortable out there. but, I felt like I belonged. it was a pretty cool feeling, almost an addictive feeling being out there. And, just what an incredible Jeff Pelizzaro: experience. What would you say are the big strengths of your game? And [00:32:00] then, are there any things that being out there that you saw throughout the couple of days? This is what I really need to work on or that I see these guys doing this or that and you know We talked about the process and routine or there&#8217;s certain things that you took away from that you know Like all right. This is why I got to step up. This is where I&#8217;m actually pretty darn good Tommy Kuhl: huh. I my strengths are always ball striking I&#8217;ve always been a really good ball striker to the green and great long iron player, great driver of the golf ball. But I learned if you want to compete out there, make cuts, make a living. It all comes down to short game. and coach Smalls preached that to me for five years. and,I&#8217;m still working on it. that&#8217;s the biggest thing I learned out there is everyone can hit the ball, far or straight. It comes down to, Short game, wedges, getting up and down, making putts, and not a lot of stuff people see. Everyone gets, goes crazy about the 350 yard drive someone hit, but they don&#8217;t look at the small things that, that it takes to win out there. And,moving forward, I think that&#8217;s the biggest thing I need to work on if I want to compete out there. [00:33:00] Jeff Pelizzaro: Yeah, man, we just saw, what, last week at the Open Championship, Ryan Harmon, his putter was just&#8230; Incredible. Incredible. Tommy Kuhl: Yep. That&#8217;s what it comes down to is, and I think if you look at each week, the statistics on. The guys who went out there, they&#8217;re going to be top 10 in putting. It all comes down to putting. especially, with the scores they&#8217;re shooting now, it&#8217;s 20 plus under to win. And you just got to be making putts. You can&#8217;t be shooting those scores and Jeff Pelizzaro: not making them. What are a couple putting drills that you can give the 18STRONG crew that you&#8217;re working on or even short game stuff? do you have I&#8217;m sure you have tons of games you play any good ones that are pretty simple to describe and That anybody can go out to their own local putting green do the Tommy Kuhl: biggest thing I&#8217;m trying to learn with putting and talking to people just out on tour and coaches, making putting as athletic as possible, nowadays with coaching and [00:34:00] stuff, people can get so technical with putting, where the putter&#8217;s aimed, how my stroke is, what&#8217;s the perfect stroke. the matter of fact is everyone&#8217;s going to be stroking a different you, you look at. Some of the best putters on tour, they don&#8217;t do it conventionally at all, so right now for me Focusing on I use a chalk line. that&#8217;s one drill. I like for my alignment with my putter face where I feel comfortable alignment wise, and just starting the ball in line. I like to do that before, I tee off, the days leading up to the tournament. but other than that, just picking a target and reacting to that. It&#8217;s just people make the, the comparison, the shooting a free throw. it&#8217;s essentially the same thing. You have your routine, and do that every time, and having no expectations when you puff. Jeff Pelizzaro: Speaking of coaching,growing up, did you have a coach that you worked with a long time? Do you still, are you still working with a coach? what does that look like, especially with you traveling and everything? Everything&#8217;s a little bit more [00:35:00] remote these days. where are you there? Tommy Kuhl: Yeah, I&#8217;ve worked with a bunch of people, a couple guys, obviously Brian Fogt, who you know, and, St. Louis guy, B Fogt&#8217;s the man, and, I still am in very good contact with, B Fogt, and, whenever I&#8217;m down in St. Louis, I love to go see him, and he helps me a lot. with my golf swing and he did growing up, but, not really working with anyone fully, there&#8217;s a couple of guys in the Champaign area, that have helped me obviously coach small and some guys, Chris Harder at Urbana Country Club has helped me a lot with my golf swing, but, I&#8217;m more of a field player, I don&#8217;t like to get too technical in my golf swing. yeah. just figure it out when I&#8217;m struggling by myself. Jeff Pelizzaro: And, yeah, I know, Coach Small obviously has a wealth of knowledge. Does he get into much instruction with you guys or do a lot of the guys already have their own coaches that they&#8217;re working with? And is that a bit of a balance there? Yeah, Tommy Kuhl: a lot of the guys come into school with swim coaches that they&#8217;ve worked with their whole life. and [00:36:00] he jumps in when he, when the When a player asks him to I wouldn&#8217;t say he forces himself in there But he does a lot of coaching on the short game side of things chipping he&#8217;s very knowledgeable with that and obviously the full swing too. He knows more than I can even wrap my head around But like I said, he&#8217;s not gonna tell you something if he doesn&#8217;t think it&#8217;s gonna help you So I think he Honestly, balance is perfect with his players, of when to help him with fundamentals and stuff like that. I Jeff Pelizzaro: know he&#8217;s a big, he&#8217;s really big on process. We had Dylan Meyer on the show a while back and he talked a lot about how, Coach Small is so big on process, and falling in love with the process, right? Knowing that he&#8217;s coaching all of these different athletes that have their own personal coaches. What would you say is his biggest role and where does he shine as far as, honestly, he&#8217;s one of the top coaches of all time in collegiate golf. what are the things that make it, him so special and make that program so special? Tommy Kuhl: I think the biggest thing [00:37:00] about coaching, what makes him so good is just how competitive he is. I think in any sport, that&#8217;s what it takes is just that competitive side, that competitive fire and,just going out there, giving it your all. And one thing I tell people is he sets the culture, he sets a very high standard in the culture. of the University of Illinois and he recruits players who buy in, if it&#8217;s, how we work in the weight room, how we work in our studies, how we treat people, how we go about our business, how we play golf. We&#8217;re gonna, he holds us to a high standard, and if we&#8217;re not doing it well, we&#8217;re gonna, we&#8217;re gonna hear about it. I think that&#8217;s what makes him, him so good. from a mental side of things and just, it&#8217;s not just golf, it&#8217;s everything. it&#8217;s how you carry yourself. And, as soon as I started to realize that, I started to see results and it&#8217;s crazy. You don&#8217;t even, you don&#8217;t even know it. and you&#8217;re playing better golf and you&#8217;re like, but it&#8217;s crazy. I wouldn&#8217;t trade my experience at the University of [00:38:00] Illinois for anything. he&#8217;s the best coach in the country for a reason. And, I think, I can&#8217;t speak highly enough about him and his role in my success. Jeff Pelizzaro: What about goal setting? going into your season, maybe this is something you guys did at Illinois as well and built on. Are you one of those kind of guys that sets goals specifically for yourself? I know, year in, year out, we&#8217;ll see Justin Thomas every now and then post, what his goals for the year were and whether he made them or didn&#8217;t make them. Is that kind of a process that you go through? Or is yours a little more loose or a little more tight and strategic? How do you go through that? And maybe what are the goals for, the end of this season and even looking Tommy Kuhl: into 24? Yeah, so yeah, I&#8217;m always goal oriented. I set my goals very high. I think anyone should, but,in college, I obviously set my goals, very high of playing well, a couple awards that I wanted to win, obviously first team all American, team goals, winning national champion, stuff like that. But I like to focus on process [00:39:00] goals. I think those are Jeff Pelizzaro: what Tommy Kuhl: are almost yeah. More important, what can I do to better myself to, to reach those goals? I&#8217;d say the process goals are something I like to focus on Jeff Pelizzaro: more. Can you give us an example of what that might look like? Tommy Kuhl: Yeah, so for example, let&#8217;s say,short game or putting, Statistically, we track our stats. Let&#8217;s say my putting stats weren&#8217;t all that I wanted. a process goal for me would be, so many three or four footers a day. Let&#8217;s, focus on alignment, speed, things like that. And ultimately, hopefully if you do the right things in those process goals, it&#8217;ll work out in the end goal. just little things like Jeff Pelizzaro: that. And then any, anything in regard to,how many tournaments you&#8217;re going to play a year, where are you going to be at the end of 24, or is it simply more, as long as I stick to the process, as long as I&#8217;m doing the things, in the gym, on the practice screen, on the drive range, on the golf course, I know that, that stuff will come. Tommy Kuhl: Yeah, you know what, as I&#8217;m, as I&#8217;ve turned professional, obviously I&#8217;m setting my [00:40:00] goals the same that I did in college, obviously I want to focus on PGA Tour Canada, what I can do up here and getting top five on the points list, getting my Korn Ferry Tour card and, just going from there, I think right now, obviously I have the end goal of making the PGA Tour and winning on the PGA Tour, but I need to focus on now and that&#8217;s PGA Tour Canada. Kind of just focusing on each week what I can do, you know The little things that we talked about and in my process goals Each week out here that coach preached to me every day and just focusing on those things and I know if I do Those every day, give it my all You know, at least I can look back and be like, at least I did the right things Jeff Pelizzaro: great answer All right, buddy. We&#8217;re gonna wrap it up with some of the questions. We ask everybody that comes on the show first one, I want to know, you&#8217;re obviously a different generation than I am. Are you more of a Candy Shack guy or more of a Happy Gilmore Tommy Kuhl: guy? Happy Gilmore. Happy Gilmore guy. Jeff Pelizzaro: Is that one that you have on repeat? do you guys, as a team, did you ever watch any of those kind of movies? [00:41:00] Tommy Kuhl: We&#8217;d turn it on here and there, but, I, honestly, I haven&#8217;t seen it too much. but, I always get a good laugh out of Adam Sandler and some of his lines in, in, in that movie. Jeff Pelizzaro: Alright, if you could pick a walk up song to the first T Box. what&#8217;s your walk up song? Tommy Kuhl: I gotta go with Country, Morgan Wong, huge Morgan Wong guy, his new album, Sunrise. PGA Tour Canada asked me the same question, and I gave him the same answer. his new song, Sunrise, it&#8217;s a perfect vibe for me and my Midwest, Jeff Pelizzaro: Are you, are you a music on the golf course kind of guy when you&#8217;re out with your buddies? Or are you a little bit more&#8230; Tommy Kuhl: I&#8217;m not a big mus I love music, but once I&#8217;m on the course, I think just the peace and quiet of being out there and hearing the, sound of the club hitting the ball and just everything around you. that&#8217;s big for me, so I don&#8217;t really like listening to music on Jeff Pelizzaro: the course. Is there a book that you&#8217;ve read, that has inspired you or really given you some insights and something that you [00:42:00] might recommend that other people in the 18th Strong Crew check Tommy Kuhl: out? Yeah,I&#8217;m trying to get into reading more. I think it&#8217;s a big thing and I always love learning. One of, one of the books, I think a lot of golfers have read and one that helped me a lot is Golfers, Not a Game of Perfect. it&#8217;s by Bob Rotella, one of the most famous sports psychologists and such an easy read for a golfer wanting, to get&#8230; better and strive to be better. And, he just gives you a good insight on, the mental side of the game. some of some, he draws connections between some of the best players in the world. what goes through their head and, and I think the title is just says it all golf is not a game. Perfect. And it&#8217;s not great read and I&#8217;d recommend it to any golfer. Jeff Pelizzaro: Alright, if you could pick a dream foursome, and this could be celebrities, this could be influential figures, but basically a foursome that you would love to go spend four or five hours with, pick their brains and learn from, or just spend the time with, who&#8217;s [00:43:00] that? Tommy Kuhl: I&#8217;d have to go Tiger Woods, he&#8217;s a true competitor. obviously one of the greatest to ever do it. he, I&#8217;d have to throw him in there. Patrick Mahomes. quarterback. new documentary out on Netflix. It&#8217;s quarterback. I don&#8217;t know if you&#8217;ve seen it yet, but I Jeff Pelizzaro: haven&#8217;t seen it yet. No, I&#8217;ve heard good things. Tommy Kuhl: I&#8217;d check it out. after watching that, I got to throw him in there because it&#8217;s crazy to just see the type of competitor he is too and how bad he wants it, how high he sets his goals, how high his standard is. definitely throw him in there, and then, I&#8217;d throw Michael Jordan in there as well. He&#8217;s all, true competitors, and it&#8217;s what you want. Jeff Pelizzaro: A solid group of highly competitive dudes, that&#8217;s for sure. Yeah, exactly. Alright, is there a bucket list course that, if I told you, Tommy, we&#8217;re, we&#8217;ve got the 18STRONG G4 fueled up, we&#8217;re ready to go, we&#8217;re coming to pick you up, what golf course are we going to?[00:44:00] Tommy Kuhl: I&#8217;d say Pine Valley, out east, in New Jersey. I love that style of golf. That&#8217;s obviously Chicago has some of the best golf in the world, and so does, the east part, of the country. I&#8217;d say Pine Valley. Never played it. Always been a dream of mine to play there. if you have that jet fueled up, I&#8217;d say, Jeff, we&#8217;re heading out there to, for a quick Jeff Pelizzaro: 18. Sounds good. Sounds good. Alright, what&#8217;s the best piece of golf advice you&#8217;ve ever been given? Tommy Kuhl: coach always says golf owes you nothing. I think you got to go out and you got to earn it each and every day. and that&#8217;s something that&#8217;s stuck with me is, and it&#8217;s true. Golf does owe me nothing. I got to go put in the work each and every day and, create my own. Own blueprint of what, my story is going to look like and how I&#8217;m going to get there. I&#8217;m just, I think that&#8217;s one thing that&#8217;s stuck with me. Jeff Pelizzaro: And last one, is there a social media account, could be golf, could be fitness, could be kind of anything that you follow that you think is worth [00:45:00] agents for our crew checking out? Tommy Kuhl: I&#8217;d say one really cool social media account, that I follow is Monday Q info. I don&#8217;t know if you follow them on Twitter, but I think they give a group, the guy gives a, Great insight of what professional golf&#8217;s what mini tour life&#8217;s what, any professional golf tournament&#8217;s some of the stories from his content is pretty cool, and he just gives you a great, overview on professional golf. Jeff Pelizzaro: Yeah, Ryan&#8217;s, he breaks a lot of the stories that end up coming out, stories like yours, from those kind of tournaments that don&#8217;t get the publicity that, Might from a golf magazine or golf digest or something, but then, he&#8217;s able to put it out because he&#8217;s got the inside track. totally. Yeah. Tommy Kuhl: When you hear some of the stories of just guys who, who don&#8217;t have much and who grind it out and get the opportunity to play and take advantage of it. It&#8217;s pretty cool just to see, some of the stories. Jeff Pelizzaro: For sure. All right, buddy. Where can everybody go to, to find you, follow your journey? Obviously, the 18STRONG Crew is going to [00:46:00] be backing and supporting you as you move forward and looking forward to you making it on the PGA Tommy Kuhl: Tour. Yeah, yeah, obviously, social media, I&#8217;m on social media, Instagram, Twitter, but hopefully, you guys can be following me on the PGA Tour app and climb my way up from PGA Tour Canada to Korn Ferry to PGA Tour and hopefully see my name on that number one on that PGA Tour app here in the next couple Jeff Pelizzaro: years. Absolutely, and that&#8217;s K U H L for you guys. K U H L, yeah. great golf name. Ever since I met you when you were, When did that, when did we first meet? Were you like 14, 15, something like that? Tommy Kuhl: I was probably, yeah, like 15 or 16, when I came down to St. Louis to, to see B Fogt. I stopped over to see you and we create, we created a great relationship and, I really respect You know what you and your team does over at 18STRONG. obviously your guys’ content&#8217;s great And you guys are the best in the business for a reason. Looking forward to working you guys working with you guys here in the next you know in the future and You [00:47:00] know decide to build this brand because like I said best in the business. Jeff Pelizzaro: &nbsp;I appreciate that brother and and i&#8217;ve been saying since you were 15 years old or whenever you came in I remember telling my cousin Ryan, my circle of friends, like this kid is phenomenal. But what a great name for a golfer, Tommy cool, like cool as ice, cool under pressure. we&#8217;re rooting for you, we&#8217;re in your corner, bud, and, I know you&#8217;re going to do great things. You&#8217;re going to, you&#8217;re going to do some big time things on the PGA tour. So we&#8217;re looking forward to being part of that journey. Tommy Kuhl: Yeah. Thank you. Thanks for having me. And, hopefully see you soon. Absolutely. Alrighty. Thanks Jeff. Jeff Pelizzaro: Thanks for joining us this week on the 18STRONG podcast with our buddy Tommy Kuhl. It&#8217;s gonna be really fun to see him grow and see him realize his dream on the PGA Tour. If you want any more information on Tommy or this episode just go to 18strong. com. This is episode number 349. We&#8217;ll catch up again with you with another great guest next week. Train hard, practice smart, and play [00:48:00] better golf. Episode Partners: LINKSOUL:&nbsp;For your 20% discount on LINKSOUL gear, go to&nbsp;18strong.com/linksoul&nbsp;or click the logo above. LivPur: For your 15% discount on LivPur products, go to&nbsp;LivPur.com&nbsp;(or click the logo above) and use the code &#8220;18STRONG&#8220;. 1st Phorm: Try any of the 1st Phorm products with FREE SHIPPING, go to 1stphorm.com/18strong.com More Cool Stuff to Check Out: To continue the conversation and ask any questions you may have, head over to the&nbsp;18STRONG Movement group on Facebook. 18STRONG Pro Shop (Get your 18STRONG gear!) 18STRONG Resources (All of the cool stuff we recommend: products, books, golf stuff, etc &#8211; and discount codes for the 18STRONG Crew)

Guest: Sean Foley, renowned golf instructor known for his work with Tiger Woods and other PGA Tour players. Host: Jeff Pelizzaro Episode Number: 348 Podcast: The 18STRONG Podcast Summary In this episode, we sit down with Sean Foley, one of the most recognizable golf instructors in the world, known for his time working with Tiger Woods. We delve into Sean&#8217;s background in fitness, his approach to golf instruction, and his innovative new device, the Pro Sendr. We also discuss the current state of professional golf, the importance of fitness and recovery, and the role of technology in golf instruction. Main Topics Sean Foley&#8217;s Background and Approach to Golf Instruction Sean&#8217;s initial background was in the fitness space, which heavily influences his approach to golf instruction. He emphasizes the importance of the body working properly for the golf swing and game to function optimally. The Pro Sendr Device Sean and David Woods have developed the Pro Sendr, a device that hooks onto your wrist and is gaining popularity among professional golfers. The device helps golfers understand the importance of wrist angles and the structure of delivering the geometry of the golf swing. The Current State of Professional Golf Sean shares his insights on the current state of professional golf, discussing the fitness regimens of top players and the importance of recovery. The Importance of Fitness in Golf Sean discusses the role of fitness in golf, emphasizing the importance of movement, hydration, sunlight, and weight lifting for both mental and physical health. The Role of Technology in Golf Instruction Sean talks about the use of technology in golf instruction, specifically discussing his Pro Sendr device and its role in improving golf swings. Resources Mentioned Linksoul – The preferred brand of apparel for golfers. Use the code “18STRONG” for a 20% discount. Pro Sendr – A device developed by Sean Foley and David Woods that helps golfers understand the importance of wrist angles and the structure of delivering the geometry of the golf swing. Conclusion In this episode, Sean Foley takes us on a journey through his approach to golf instruction, his innovative Pro Sendr device, and the current state of professional golf. He also discusses the importance of fitness in golf and the role of technology in golf instruction. Tune in to the 18STRONG Podcast to hear more about Sean’s experiences and insights. Want the full episode transcript? (click the &#8220;+&#8221; ????????) Jeff Pelizzaro: [00:00:00] The 18STRONG podcast, episode number 348 with Sean Foley. What&#8217;s up guys. Welcome back to the 18STRONG podcast, where our mission here is to help you build a stronger game. And that&#8217;s on the course off the course. It&#8217;s everything that involves working harder, playing harder, playing better, enjoying the game more. And this week, I&#8217;m really excited. We have Sean Foley, probably one of the most recognizable golf instructors, coaches to the PGA tour players, obviously known for his time working with Tiger woods. And this week we get a chance to sit down and talk to him about really so many different things in the world of golf, his background, which I didn&#8217;t realize that [00:01:00] Sean&#8217;s initial background was in the fitness space. So we talk a lot about the body and how important it is that your body&#8217;s working properly in order to get your golf swing and your golf game working properly. We talk about his new device that he and David Woods have come up with, the Pro Sender that is really taking the world of golf and even the professional ranks of golf by storm. it&#8217;s a device that hooks onto your wrist. And we&#8217;ve seen the likes of Rory McIlroy and a lot of the PGA tour players on their Instagram channels using the Pro Center. So we&#8217;re going to talk about that and what&#8217;s different about it, why it&#8217;s not just a gimmicky tool and how Sean uses it and what it&#8217;s important for. And then we discuss a little bit of all of it. the current situation of the pro game today, the fitness regimens and how important recovery is and so many different topics. So I&#8217;m really excited to have Sean on here and share this episode. Before we jump into the interview, let&#8217;s thank our partners over at Link Soul. [00:02:00] As always, Linksoul is our preferred brand of apparel here at 18STRONG. We had our mandatory golf Friday this morning, and I would say that of the 12 guys playing this morning, at least 8 to 10 of them had some form of Linksoul on, and so it feels like we&#8217;re, we&#8217;ve got a little bit of Oceanside, California right here in St. Louis when we have our mandatory golf Fridays, so that&#8217;s pretty cool. So go and check out Linksoul. Go to 18strong. com slash Linksoul. You&#8217;ll get a 20% off discount if you go there on anything in your cart. I highly recommend the BoardWalker shorts. They now make them in two different inseams. So for all you youngsters out there that are wanting a little higher inseam, I know they&#8217;ve got the 8 inch inseam and the 10 inch still for the, the older guys like myself. So go over there, 18strong. com slash Linksoul to get your 20% off. All right, let&#8217;s jump into our chat with Sean Foley. First of all, thanks for coming on. This is awesome [00:03:00] Obviously Sean Foley: I looked into what you guys do and all that, but how would you explain it? Jeff Pelizzaro: 18STRONG it really started out as me just as a golf fitness pro trying to get some more information from some of the other people that i&#8217;d come across, like the tpi folks and Just try to get a little bit more word out on what the fitness part of the game does or what the fitness game does for the golfers and really was a way for me to start learning more about it. My background is physical therapy and, always wanted to do something a little bit more online as opposed to just having my own fitness training studio and as a way to disseminate information. And here we are 340 something episodes later where we&#8217;re still talking with, some of the best fitness people in the game, instructors, pros. And, really just trying to champion the idea of, no matter what age level, whatever you are, that putting some time and effort into your physical abilities, your mental abilities, that&#8217;s just as much a part of you being a better golfer as getting a new driver or [00:04:00] going and banging balls on the range. And so wanted to just try to disseminate some of the information and now some of the resources that we have, what to connect with people like yourself and put that out to our Sean Foley: community. Yeah. it&#8217;s something I&#8217;m pretty, I, when I started coaching golf, I was also a personal trainer. Oh, I didn&#8217;t know that. Yeah. It was really hard to make money teaching golf in Canada at that time. I was, I was, nobody knew who I was. so to build business in between, I was dead broke and I didn&#8217;t want to live at home anymore. two things. I continued to weigh tables and then I got my Canadian certification strength and conditioning. Deal took me like six months to eight months or whatever. And, so I did that and then I started, trading people. So I did it at that time to most of my clients were just overweight, right? I didn&#8217;t know, I didn&#8217;t have, I didn&#8217;t even go to biology class before. So I remember it&#8217;s like passing that test was a miracle by the way. and anyways, I started to do that, but then what happened was. [00:05:00] I met this guy named Dr. Craig Davies and Davies is, Cairo by training, but also a trainer for many years. And his goal was to train people in a way that they wouldn&#8217;t need to get treated because obviously his hands and fingers are going to fall off at some point from all the treatments that he&#8217;s done. And he&#8217;s moved over the years that we&#8217;ve been roommates on tour for 17 years. Craig is at the vault performance. And In all that time, all the different chiros, and osteopaths, and doctors of Chinese medicine, he was mentored by Mark Lindsay, and Scappaticci, who are kind of Canadian gods of soft tissue work, worked at the Olympics for four different Olympics, and I think the thing with Canada, with our PTs and our physios and our, Osteos and Kairos, they&#8217;re looked at very differently than in the U. S. And I think the main concern I have in the U. S. obviously is that [00:06:00] pharmaceutical companies, they don&#8217;t want you to believe that movement in hydration and sunlight and cold water and lifting weights is going to help with mental health or physical health, right? surgery makes a lot of money, for hospital, and pharmaceutical companies. And so in Canada, where we have social medicine, like where it&#8217;s completely free to the people while we pay taxes, obviously, these guys are at such a different level as one, how they&#8217;re perceived by society, but to, their ability, because. They&#8217;re, I remember being in the States and hearing the word chiropractor and people being like, Whoa, but as I came to learn, these chiros just don&#8217;t crack backs like Craig does frequency specific microcurrents. he&#8217;s been using voltage to treat his athletes for a long time. He&#8217;s got. 10, 000 hours in acupuncture is really expanded and expand. I&#8217;d say [00:07:00] his favorite thing to do is still to train people. I think that&#8217;s his favorite thing. so Craig and I were in 2010, we spoke, at the, World Golf Fitness Summit hosted by, by Greg and by Dave. Because I really think that we were really much the pioneers of coach and trainer slash Cairo to like really develop this team mentality around it. So my job was everything related to wrist angles. And the structure of how we deliver the geometry of the golf swing and hit it straight. And then Craig&#8217;s job was to create these eloquent human movements. So it was funny seeing Davies out there in oh seven, like teaching some of his higher level guys to do like Brazilian capoeira and watching their movement become really clean, like beautiful movement, like watching an athletic little kid, right?[00:08:00] it&#8217;s like I&#8217;m working with a trainer right now. Matt Palazzo, who&#8217;s from the Northeast and, he&#8217;s into golf, fitness and fitness in general, but very sharp guy. and he&#8217;s, we&#8217;re working on my gait cycle and then he shows me videos of his, one year old child. And I&#8217;m like, Oh, like that, like we&#8217;re born with the right hardware. It&#8217;s just because we live such a sedentary life and we do this. Like when did we do this? But if we did this over. The extent of 99% of the time we&#8217;ve been human beings, we would be hungry. So we had to move, right? So I think as a golf coach, I really super, super appreciate, the training aspect of it. And then two is really creating like lanes. Okay. Movement. So people, talk, a lot of golf coaches are into discussing, all these [00:09:00] ground forces. That are really based on the quality of movement through the foot and ankle, which look, but like we all walk on concrete and shoes, we were designed to walk on the earth with our feet. If we go to places where people have lived the same way for 300, 000 years, their feet don&#8217;t look like ours, they look like hands. And so all these back issues we have, neck issues, a lot of this stuff is just directly related to that, right? And A lot of times I would say to Craig, I&#8217;d like to do this with him and this with him. And then he would accept him both, passively and actively. And I don&#8217;t know if passively is even. Problem with putting someone at a table and assessing their ability to move, like the nervous system and the intention is not there. Justin Rose was always told, you only have three to four degrees internal hip rotation because he had a retroverted pelvis. So he had massive amounts in obviously external, but when we put 3d on him with Mark [00:10:00] bull, he moved like a gazelle. He had, he could just move. So if we kept his lower back in the right position and posture, we didn&#8217;t really have any issues. But a lot of people would look at that measurement and say, Oh, there&#8217;s no way he can play goals. So it&#8217;s all very tricky. And I think that within the training and the nervous system is the important part. So I&#8217;ve spent a better part of the last 17 years at night. Like I think back to the PGA championship in 2013, I stayed in the house with six trainers and therapists, right? So that was always what it was. And so listening to them argue and discuss, it just took me so much further in my understanding. One of what my responsibility is not as a golf coach. Okay. So yeah, of course I see their pivot. Of course I see how they load. Of course, I know that none of it is advantageous. It&#8217;s not going to really come from my lips and how to help them improve that. So we&#8217;re [00:11:00] talking about, getting people quicker in a linear and a vertical force. that&#8217;s a little naive and cavalier, isn&#8217;t it? If you can&#8217;t do it with you, if they can&#8217;t do it with you, Jeff, they&#8217;re certainly not going to do it with me. So that&#8217;s, what it does is to work towards this kind of golf homeostasis. I think the combination of the two and then us really understanding what we&#8217;re looking for. So I would say man, I need this player to be able to stay external slightly longer before they go internal. And he&#8217;d be like, we&#8217;re dead at the shoulders about as good as it&#8217;s gonna be. let me see what I can do as it relates to tibial, internal, external rotation, femur. And a little more thoracic. And then I&#8217;m like, Oh, bingo. That&#8217;s it. And we get this thing for a millisecond longer, but that can be that millisecond longer over 800 golf rounds could turn into 5 million. So anyways, that&#8217;s the thing that people don&#8217;t have never really understood about what I do is that most [00:12:00] of my buddies are all in movement, like period. I have a bunch of friends who are golf coaches too, but. I just found that it was a lot easier. I&#8217;m not really that interested in opinions. You know what I mean? Sure. How Jeff Pelizzaro: much with kind of the, the typical average golfer, let&#8217;s say, and I don&#8217;t know how many of these you actually work with, or if you&#8217;re working specifically more with the high level division one athletes pro. Sean Foley: Pro golfers, but I work with everybody really but more so like a higher level. Yes. So for Jeff Pelizzaro: the, more, more average, let&#8217;s say five handicap, 10 handicap, maybe the 40 to 60 year old range, how much do you think is of their, swing characteristics and what you&#8217;re trying to work on tends to be some of those physical limitations. Yeah. because of what we do all the time, like you said, sitting all the time. And how much of it is more skill based or just simply motor pattern based?[00:13:00] Sean Foley: I can&#8217;t really like, like I would, I&#8217;m not like a Stanford professor on this stuff. what I think I feel like I&#8217;ve done with a lot of disciplines is I&#8217;ve learned enough about all of them to know, who&#8217;s the guy. So if I had a player and it was like, I&#8217;m having some issues with this hip, I know the hip guy. So I don&#8217;t, So as it relates to that, look, how many people. That we&#8217;re talking about probably have an open club face, like 95% of them, right? Now they might be really trying to do, and that&#8217;s why we designed the Pro Sender is to help people understand the importance of these things, just the importance of these movements. And so it&#8217;s try and pull an object like this. So I come into the gym and you get me on the cables. I&#8217;m going to try and pull it like that. I&#8217;m probably going to go like that. Now, try to get me to do a shoulder press or bench press, I&#8217;m going to be in extension. [00:14:00] So of course, the idea of designing this to get it in extension with the wrist neutral or inflection, that ties in way deeper into how the body&#8217;s then going to work to create pulling and pushing, to create rotation from couple forces. The problem is, where we&#8217;ve been taught too much lately about rotation. It&#8217;s this idea of opening, but it&#8217;s not, it&#8217;s, I&#8217;m trying to create counter rotation. why would I want to get open and then where&#8217;s that even coming from? it&#8217;s we talk about vertical force, but most people can&#8217;t even move their big toe. if the big toe talks to the glute, then, what is the use of doing that? vertical force just becomes extension, which then ruins, like, how they hit the ball. club face is, the main difference between a pro and an amateur is their&#8230; Is their ability to create a consistent ish, it&#8217;s variability there, but it&#8217;s minimal of the club face. Because look, [00:15:00] Jeff, I go to 25 Pro Ams a year, and I will watch 22 Handicaps beat a pro on a par three. they finally time it up and it&#8217;s a beautiful shot to fix feet and there&#8217;s I couldn&#8217;t go onto an N B A court and make a shot on anybody. But that&#8217;s the thing that makes it all so beautiful, is that you see that quite often in pro ams. but why are the pros more consistent? and I think that you&#8217;re looking at special human movers, okay? And I don&#8217;t think you have to be on tour, but when you look at a DJ, or a Rory, or a Cameron Champ, Them focused on pitching at the age of eight. And it&#8217;s like the love of their life is pitching. I&#8217;m going to say they&#8217;re at least getting a division one scholarship. That&#8217;s high end, right? Like that, if you have a division one scholarship in baseball, football, or golf to a top 20 school in all those sports, you&#8217;re on the precipice of being a perfection. [00:16:00] So it, I think we need to appreciate that when we slow their videos down and we&#8217;re like, if you just do this, Mr. Jones, there&#8217;s there. There&#8217;s there&#8217;s side bend, and then there&#8217;s how DJ&#8217;s creating side bend. And it is more applied to the gait cycle than it is the ability. So then you watch these guys through the fairway. I&#8217;d say Cameron and Rory and DJ are the most beautiful walkers on tour. Adam Scott&#8217;s not so bad himself. And so when you watch defensive backs walking back to the huddles. You just, you&#8217;re like, Oh, that person&#8217;s a mover. You know what I, this is, I&#8217;m speaking your language obviously, but it&#8217;s when someone&#8217;s with me, I have to assess, okay, look, I don&#8217;t have Jeff or Craig here. in many cases with the people, who are 40 to 60 years old. A lot of times, 10 lessons in a row from 30 yards in will really suffice to playing better golf.[00:17:00] and so that&#8217;s the thing, like a senior tour player comes to me and he wants, he doesn&#8217;t hit it as far as he used to, but he&#8217;s still six foot two, 200 pounds, he&#8217;s still a big, strong man. Where has he lost his ability? His nervous system isn&#8217;t as fast as it was. And the tissue doesn&#8217;t work quite like it did. So it is a function of it&#8217;s basically like when I asked Cameron champ when he was 15 and I was Like losing my mind watching this kid hit golf balls. And at that time when I meet him, I am working with Tiger, Justin Rose, Hunter Mahan, and Sean O&#8217;Hare. So I think I&#8217;ve seen it all. you can never say I&#8217;ve seen it all. this kid starts hitting balls and I&#8217;m like, holy shit. And so when we started to talk, cause I had a lot of questions for him, like, how&#8217;d you learn how to do that? I just do that. Do you play other sports? Yes. I play all these other sports. Are you good? Yes. I&#8217;m really good at all of them. how would you explain what you feel? He&#8217;s I do everything opposite of what [00:18:00] people have been taught. So I go on my left foot in my backswing and then I go on my right foot on my follow through and it&#8217;s Okay. That&#8217;s not really what we teach, but we have seen athletes move like that. and then in the transition of my swing, I feel like I just turned into a slingshot. So he, this kid&#8217;s feeling elastic, recoil throughout the whole system. that&#8217;s just not, that&#8217;s not teachable. Like you could help me get a higher vert, but we&#8217;re only gonna get so high, right? Jeff Pelizzaro: So I was ju I was actually on your Instagram. Looking at some pictures, flipping through Cam Champ&#8217;s pictures and I&#8217;m like, man, he just makes it look so effortless Sean Foley: and easy. But that&#8217;s how those DBs look when they walk back to the,go to New York City and watch people walk down the street in high heels and in dress shoes and on cement and you watch Gates just get destroyed. Then you watch those guys walk back to the huddle and you realize wow. These guys walk so [00:19:00] beautifully and they spend a quarter of their time going backwards and like training people to go backwards now is so in,we were on the whole force. We couldn&#8217;t turn around. We were supposed to be able to do that. So yeah, I think it&#8217;s not rocket science, but it&#8217;s definitely science, it&#8217;s, it, we just have to look at today&#8217;s society. It&#8217;s how we&#8217;ve been designed, both from a mental and a physical standpoint, we don&#8217;t live like that. I&#8217;m being told now, don&#8217;t go in the sun. What? Why would I not go in the sun? my ancestors would have been in the sun all day, starting at sun up. So when people send me a link from Huberman, and I think he&#8217;s fantastic, I love his stuff. I like evidence, right? they&#8217;re like, early sunlight is so important for sleep cycles. Yeah, because we always were in early morning sunlight forever, like the whole time cold water is more imperative than hot water. How long have we had hot water as it [00:20:00] relates to our biology, 60 years in wealthy countries. So it&#8217;s not once again, it&#8217;s science, but if you just look at, okay, this is how we evolve physically. Okay. a hundred years ago, the obesity rate was what, like 1%? Okay, what are we doing to ourselves? And what are we not doing that we used to do? Move all the time. move all the time. Move all the time. Exactly. Exactly. yeah. So I&#8217;m fascinated. Like I have so many smart friends that are in your discipline, and I love listening to them, but I just, I&#8217;m very good at staying in my own lane. You know what I mean? it&#8217;s just. It&#8217;s super important when you start, I think I felt at one point the ability to articulate all of these different things. So I knew 3% of everything. And so it was like, it just wasn&#8217;t deep. And if I got in amongst people who really knew the challenge was, I couldn&#8217;t handle the challenge. So I just was like, all right, [00:21:00] what do I need to know about how to overall mentorship role of my teams over the years? And so it was like getting the right people, and I feel like I did a very good job of getting the right person matched up with a certain player, not always the same people. Jeff Pelizzaro: So when you are out on the range and you&#8217;re working with somebody or you&#8217;re assessing somebody, and you know that you maybe don&#8217;t have the ability, especially right there in the moment, I assume people are coming in to see you, you might have a short period of time with them. You&#8217;re not really going to be able to send them off to your team if they&#8217;re not a professional golfer. This is, let&#8217;s say, more the country club golfer. And okay, we&#8217;re not going to fix everything that this person has going on physically. you probably have some sort of a, what might your screen be? physically, are you looking at and saying okay, this is where we&#8217;re going to, Maybe try to make a couple changes, or I know we got to work around some of these things just to make them hit the ball better today, and they&#8217;re [00:22:00] off and running. Sean Foley: Yeah, I got some, I have some tricks up my sleeve after 30 years, right? it&#8217;s, basically, most of these players who come to me, who are going to be,amateurs, what we&#8217;re mainly talking about. Most cases, their back swings are too short and their club face is too open. So I&#8217;m what I&#8217;m doing when someone comes to me, I&#8217;m I&#8217;m, I feel like a triage, I feel like I&#8217;m on the front lines and I&#8217;m a triage doctor. And so the grenade went off and I see like blood everywhere, but like where, like, where can I not miss it? So I got to take the flak jacket off and I have to see if it&#8217;s by any of the organs, because. My skin can be hanging off and that looks gross, but I&#8217;m not going to die from that. You know what I mean? So it&#8217;s trying to, in a way, like trying to find a tumor, which to be honest with you, most of the time, Jeff is just someone&#8217;s concept and understanding.[00:23:00] So a lot of people like, if we taught kids how to play baseball, like we teach them science, kids would think that baseball sucks, right? Like we need to start teaching science. Like we teach like sports. so I think. the first thing I&#8217;m gonna ask anybody is are you sore anywhere or have you have you had injuries? So like Aria Jantargaran is one of the girls I work with on LPGA and she dislocated her shoulder and then had a surgery. And so she in external is about right there, so she can&#8217;t go very far. Now, she played good golf after that. and she&#8217;s incredible. she&#8217;s so impressive to watch. She&#8217;s in my top three, like pure fleshers, men or women. she can really smash it and she hits it beautiful. And so when she came to me, she came after I worked with Lydia for two years [00:24:00] and she had turned early and had a deep hand path, which is. Can be the in thing from time to time, right? Getting deep. and we just totally don&#8217;t understand that most people do that, see it. And then go into like basic, like completely over retraction and elevation. And then it feels deep, but there&#8217;s like in a terrible place now. So we, that&#8217;s the word I don&#8217;t like to use, to be honest with you. so she did that because he was so limited, obviously her brain&#8217;s I&#8217;m not causing more issue there. So I&#8217;m just, Oh, that feels better. And so someone sent me a video the other day of her hitting it like way better than they remember. And they&#8217;re like, but she&#8217;s so outside. And so to get the center of mass of the club and transition to fall behind her, I have to use momentum because she just doesn&#8217;t have that. She doesn&#8217;t. So the thing is when she takes it out, the main thing that she has to be concerned about is making sure that she elevates as she turns. [00:25:00] So she feels the elevation, but sometimes she&#8217;ll just take it out and she won&#8217;t turn with it. Because obviously if the arms go in a certain direction, then the body&#8217;s just going to react. Basically, her feeling like she&#8217;s creating torque clockwise in the ankle and then feeling that it&#8217;s out and wide, it&#8217;s given us the ability to get it to fall back into that beautiful place that she can just release it and murder it from. That, that, that&#8217;s the thing is she&#8217;s very lateral and vertical and her sister is literally like this. So they&#8217;re the same, they&#8217;re sisters and they move so completely differently. if. If I was to give them the same lesson, one&#8217;s going to get better and one&#8217;s going to get way worse. So it&#8217;s knowing that there are different type of movers. There&#8217;s not many, there&#8217;s really not many. if you look at the ground force stuff from swing catalysts, you&#8217;ll see some guys who stay left and they use vertical a lot. And then you&#8217;ll see some guys who move from left to right and use [00:26:00] vertical. And then you&#8217;ll see guys like Tommy Fleetwood, Adam Scott, and Justin Rose, who were a trifecta. So between linear, vertical, and torque, they hit torque average in all three. The funny thing is those are the swings people like to look at. Yeah, those are the pretty ones. Just what I&#8217;m saying. But a lot of the rhythm that they have in all of that comes from their ability of when they apply force. And to me, rhythm is not like something where I can have a good rhythm. Like people would say, Oh, John Bonham had great rhythm on the drums. He also had like incredibly competent mechanic. Give me a drum. I think I have decent rhythm in my golf swing, but give me a drum set right now. It&#8217;s not going to sound like I have very good rhythm. So it&#8217;s one of those throw out words. So I think the guys that have the ability to move. Not like in a unicorn way, Cameron might be like a unicorn [00:27:00] in a high end movement, air ability with the right wrist,with wrist angles that suit their grip. They&#8217;re the ones who end up really looking elegant and rhythmic is because, they can hit these angles and stay in these angles and then use things to, to go from there. So I don&#8217;t understand how we can talk about vertical force, but not talk about someone&#8217;s ability to like. Contract their muscles. So am I going to learn that on the range or if I wanted to get that better, would I just go to a sprint and jump mechanics coach? I think if I did that, I&#8217;m going to, I&#8217;m going to get it for free on the range. Jeff Pelizzaro: Yeah. Yeah. How much do you think, I love this transition because we talk about. Strength training, we talk about all the fitness stuff. We talk about going out and practicing skills. The crossover there, I think, is where most of us tend to get lost a little bit. okay, how do I take that speed, that athleticism, and directly [00:28:00] correlate that into my golf swing? Are there certain things that you and maybe your team do with some of your players to, to bridge that bit of crossover, to make it a little bit more, for lack of better terms, golf specific when they&#8217;re working on some of, integrating Sean Foley: some of those pieces? Yeah, not really. not really. I just think what happens is just over time you just see that all come together. Because the thing is with the person&#8217;s swing, that thumbprint&#8217;s pretty heavy, right? Like that thumbprint&#8217;s, if I go and hit golf balls right now, I probably get hurt. Because when I. When I formally built my swing and got it to where it&#8217;s always going to be right. I moved way better than I do now. Like my ankles moved is whatever you want. I just moved way better. So I have to work on my movement right now, as it relates to hitting the ball better, because my hands and arms are very educated on what to do. See what [00:29:00] I&#8217;m saying? So it&#8217;s. If I get to the top of my swing and I&#8217;m like that, then I don&#8217;t care what you did in the gym with Jeff for the last year, because as soon as you go to apply all that stuff, physics wise, now you&#8217;re in trouble. but you know that I think one of the things that mystifies me is it relates to all the instruction about people keeping their butt on the wall and rotating. And then these world class players go into the gym and do a bunch of flexion and extension exercises. So when I think of the pivot, I see it more as the idea of a stretch phase, a counter rotation phase and an extension phase. Okay. But I think more people can do that than actually can build their backswing into a place where it&#8217;s going to be good. And I think that golf is very much a backswing game as it relates to. Once you get to the top of your backswing, you have three one hundredths of a second before you get to impact. So [00:30:00] the sail, the ship is sailed to some extent, the only angular changes you&#8217;ll be able to make will be with large movers. And so I don&#8217;t really think that extension is a problem. And I don&#8217;t really have to fix it. If I can get the mass of someone&#8217;s club coming in from the right place, they know what to do from there. Just like they know what to do from there. If you look at Jason day&#8217;s swing from five years ago till now, you could see obviously why he was, his back was getting hurt. his posture wasn&#8217;t good. he probably swayed more than he turns. He was very steep coming down and had to Pike up to not cut across it. And so if I look at the difference now, because of where his club is and because of where his arms are. And because of his posture, he&#8217;s probably not going to hurt himself again. So it&#8217;s like the back is better when the back&#8217;s not even the focus. It&#8217;s not even [00:31:00] the back&#8217;s getting hurt in these decelerations bases where we&#8217;re trying to make up for lost time of something we did wrong. And our intention is very clear and our brain&#8217;s very good with intention. And so if we get out here and then rotate, we&#8217;re just going to slight this. So we&#8217;re just going to early extend so we don&#8217;t slice across it. And then we think that early extension is the problem. Early extension is actually almost the talent. I&#8217;ve never heard it put that way, but yeah, Jeff Pelizzaro: it&#8217;s basically a compensation to fix what problem you had in the backswing. Sean Foley: Yeah. if you look at Sergio and Cameron Champ at impact, if Scottie Scheffler had his backswing where he did, and then look like them through impact, he&#8217;d be hitting huge slices because when you, but once again, what do they say? They ended up doing an article on why you should have his footwork. Of course. But honestly, if you look at it. and if he came to me, I wouldn&#8217;t say a word to him cause he hits it amazing. And so his [00:32:00] coach, Randy Smith has been brilliant just to know that this guy&#8217;s a big ball hitter and practices a lot. And they&#8217;ve got their couple of things that they work on and where Scotty has it is amazing, but it&#8217;s very rare that you&#8217;ll see a player on tour whose sternum is ahead of his pelvis. That his arms are very upright with the face open. These are rare. You don&#8217;t see it very much. And so if I&#8217;m up here and I&#8217;m already this way. As soon as I start down, if I was going to get open, look at where I&#8217;m coming from. Yes. If I now slide my hips really hard to the target, and then from there I start to extend, my foot is going back that way in relation to just trying not to spin out. Yeah. So that&#8217;s how he does Hovland.[00:33:00] Who, once again, you wouldn&#8217;t touch that because you don&#8217;t touch it because they&#8217;re number one and two in ball striking. So whatever they&#8217;re doing is lawful. They can do it, right? If it&#8217;s eight out of 10 people, those are two unicorns on the spectrum. And then everyone else is fits, in, into the middle. Jeff Pelizzaro: Tell us a little bit about the pro center and why you decided to go with, so obviously that you&#8217;re working primarily on implant impact. It&#8217;s basically one position, but tell us why the way that you guys designed it works so well to help improve that position. Works on the backswing, works on impact position. but I&#8217;ve heard you talk about the science of how our bodies learn and how you guys designed this specifically for that reason. Sean Foley: Yeah, I think because the backswing is two one hundredths of a second away from impact, I don&#8217;t think impact is the goal. I think [00:34:00] by the time we get there in our transition, that&#8217;s pretty much all hero. Okay. I know I&#8217;ve heard players say they saved it. That the physicists tell me that&#8217;s not possible. Okay. So feeling real, don&#8217;t really relate. So if you just think about us as we&#8217;ve evolved, some of the ways that we would have had to be able to create velocity. In the spear or in the stone or in our fist or in the sword, that&#8217;s where all of athleticism stems from. So back 5, 000 years ago in a big sword fight, the guy who was the best sword fighter was just the best athlete who loved sword fighting. Basically. So yeah, the whole idea of being in extension with the right wrist and the right forearm and pronation. [00:35:00] And the shoulder in external rotation that has so much to do with so many evolved movements. Okay. Now, obviously once I would take the spear, I would, if my weight, I would load, I would counter rotate, and then I would go ahead into extension phase and throw it. So I&#8217;m getting, I&#8217;m generating energy from the ground. What I&#8217;m doing to it, it&#8217;s doing to me. I have these factual slings, posterior and anterior. And then I have contraction of muscle and deceleration and acceleration, right? That&#8217;s where I&#8217;m at. I don&#8217;t think that I need to know much more than that. I feel like that&#8217;s about what&#8217;s happened. So when you watch modern javelin throwing today, that&#8217;s obviously a completely different process because you&#8217;re trying to throw it high as well, but you watch those guys [00:36:00] and they do have a lot of drills where they just work on being here and pushing. They&#8217;re not always running and loading. They&#8217;re also using, they&#8217;re also using that kind of, to me, it looks like how a dolphin moves, right? Propulsion to do this all together. No one says like a javelin thrower has great glutes. Javelin thrower has a great arm, right? So Nolan Ryan on his knees would put a hole in our chest. He&#8217;s obviously being able to create enough friction and resistance to then go against. But in your work, that&#8217;s why what you do with people&#8217;s core is so important. Cause now you&#8217;re giving me two ground. So I remember years ago, I met a guy who was a special forces in South Africa and was shot in war and was paralyzed, but became like the number one ranked adaptive golfer in the world. And so he built a golf cart that stood [00:37:00] him up. And then he was able to hit, And it could go on the green and everything. I think he sold lots of them. but he&#8217;s at 150 mile an hour club head speed. Oh my gosh. How heavy is a golf club? not very. So my friend, Sasha McKenzie, who&#8217;s a PhD in biomechanics up in, Nova Scotia. Sasha was the one who created that stack system that Matt Fitzpatrick used to increase his club head speed. what was really cool is that he was a good sprinter and he was a great lifter. So not only is he a PhD in biomechanics, he had very, a lot of wisdom in it. So Sashko says that how we apply. How we create force and speed into a golf club is more equivalent to a badminton racket than even a baseball bat. And then if you look at sports like lacrosse, obviously you have a pull hand and a push hand. [00:38:00] And the more you&#8217;re able to do that, the faster you can move it. Okay. Now, if you take a running start and do all everything else. A world class lacrosse player standing dead still doing that isn&#8217;t going to lose much velocity. that&#8217;s why this is so important, is because so much of what I&#8217;m doing in golf is in the grip and about the handle. Now, your job is to get me to move in an elegant way so that&#8230; I can get it into optimum places to make it really speed up. So the movement part has as much to do with hitting it straight as it does hitting it far, maybe more, to be honest with maybe more too, because no one&#8217;s ever done a biopsy of Cameron champs motor units, so that will be telling. Okay. that will be telling. So we can, we can say this, and this, but I think there&#8217;s slightly deeper levels to why there&#8217;s like when you have [00:39:00] one of one type of velocity, right? So just going off the idea of how we had, would have always produced, throwing energy, right? Cause I think of the golf club, like when old school pros talk about releasing it, that&#8217;s throwing it, just not letting go of it. So you got a pull hand and you got a push hand. So once you put it on and the way we did it, Jeff was basically right, Wrist extension on the PGA tour goes from say 40. There we go. Goes from 43 degrees to 62, roughly. Okay. So you might get some of the super bode guys, like in a higher level of it. Now, are they bowing their left wrist or are they corkscrewing their right so much that it&#8217;s pulling the wrist [00:40:00] into that position? Cause this, for people, this is a weird thing. Like with right handed golfers, this is like no man&#8217;s land, right? we built it at around 50 degrees. So that&#8217;s in the midpoint of that picture picture back in the day that I have a spear or a rock, it&#8217;s going to be in that position. We would never have been in that position. Now, say I was going to throw something would be in this position, I wouldn&#8217;t be, or in this position. Like a frisbee kind of a throw. Totally. Where I&#8217;m going, I&#8217;m probably flex early going into older, right? And so with the right wrist there, as the [00:41:00] person puts it on there to the top, sorry, based on their ability to obviously create space and time with their pivot. Once they&#8217;re into that position, ideally, what happens now is when we release it, we&#8217;re not releasing it this way. We&#8217;re releasing it as that arm is straightening. It has to obviously to create a mechanical advantage that the wrist is, it stays in it because it&#8217;s in extension, but it&#8217;s going older. Okay. So it&#8217;s not so much, it&#8217;s not so much of a draggy thing. Okay. Cause that might look better, but that ball is not going to go very high and it won&#8217;t give me what I need optimally. If you look at this movement here, so I&#8217;m in extension and I&#8217;m letting my right arm straighten. Okay, there&#8217;s been a lot of talk about keeping the elbow bent in front of you. I don&#8217;t know why you want to do that. I [00:42:00] think Jeff, you have to be so thick in forward bend and rotation to create enough side bend to actually even hit the ground. So if you can do it. But if you can&#8217;t do it, don&#8217;t do it. Not good. I think there&#8217;s a lot more players in the hall of fame who are here at impact than here. Okay. So I think I would call this kind of sidearm golf, right? How many pitchers in the major leagues are sidearm throwers? Is there five? Very few. Probably five, right? we have five golfers. Who can do that too. So once again, it&#8217;s just going to be human movement. So do I think for amateurs, it&#8217;s a good idea to go to the, to go to a lake and trying to learn how to skip rocks. Absolutely. 100%. the guys who could really do it and make it skip like 50 times are bent over so much that it&#8217;s just incredible that they can [00:43:00] keep that the plane of it that way. So the idea is that as I&#8217;m doing this, that motion there. It&#8217;s really not a lot different than that motion there. The reason I don&#8217;t want people&#8217;s elbows to be bent at impact is the reason as a boxing coach, I wouldn&#8217;t want your elbow to be bent when they hit somebody. So we have to get, we have to be able to use that pack and that shoulder to get that arm to extend in the tricep, make contact and generate push force. So what happens is when the amateurs get to the top and they&#8217;re out of it. This left side is going to have a lot more responsibility for what happens because the right side is just in no man&#8217;s land. So the face is going to be wide open. So they&#8217;ve got to, if the face is open, they&#8217;ve got to find a way to close it. So they try to swing left to help close it. But the problem is because it&#8217;s here, [00:44:00] it&#8217;s going to find a way to go back. And so the pro sender is getting it to where I&#8217;m going to make it go back in transition. And now I can go. Whereas when it comes down this way or steep, it&#8217;s going to go back late. And that&#8217;s why, 85% of people slice a golf ball. So this is much more important in the sense that when I&#8217;m in this angle, now picture the golf club connected to it, that club stays behind my hands as they work down. So this phase where the club would be on this angle, as I&#8217;m working down, they didn&#8217;t let me do that as a kid. Cause they said that I wasn&#8217;t on plane, but if you really wanted to create speed, you couldn&#8217;t be on plane. You wouldn&#8217;t go up. It&#8217;s not even, I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s a word that even matters. It&#8217;s I think hopefully some of the language in golf evolves, right? Like why can we not call it a stretch phase, a counter rotation phase and an extension phase? Why isn&#8217;t a [00:45:00] backswing, a downswing and a follow through, right? Even when you talk to an amateur who is a beginner and you tell them to make a backswing, they literally swing backwards. Like, why wouldn&#8217;t they, right? So hopefully over time that can change because, when you guys discuss things, you say glute men or glute mead. You don&#8217;t make up a different name for it. There&#8217;s nothing wrong with challenging people to just a little higher form of contemplation, would you Jeff Pelizzaro: say that? For kind of that range of golf where you&#8217;re talking about before that&#8217;s the biggest miss that open club face at impact that, because I know that describes my golf swing perfectly, over the top move, which has been cool to, to play around with the pro center and see how it really does change the, just the feel of where my club is and, working on that position and Sean Foley: into the ball. And then I would imagine what you would feel is that say you felt like that got really improved. You would notice what your body was doing was way different than before, but you [00:46:00] didn&#8217;t even think about it. And the hands have a lot of memory in the brain. And so my saying has always been that the club face is the CEO, but the hands are the GPS. Do I need to turn my body or do I need to stretch away from myself? So a lot of the second baseman who steps up and the ball gets hit and he goes right and creates a horizontal breaking force and then creates a lateral force with a vertical force to catch the ball. He&#8217;s only trying to catch the ball. He just reacts like an athlete, right? he would have had that when he was five years old, the ability to go side to side like that. Now he could work with you to make it better and more explosive. He&#8217;s in the major leagues because he catches balls. so we can&#8217;t get, we can&#8217;t get lost in the It&#8217;s like when people talk about, what came first, the chicken or the egg?[00:47:00] what came before the chicken and the egg was atoms and molecules and electrons and protons, right? that&#8217;s what came first. I think the same can be true, with strength and conditioning and golf, right? Jeff Pelizzaro: Let&#8217;s take a quick break here to thank our partners over at Live Pure. Live Pure makes the highest quality hydration product on the market. It was developed in part with Dr. Troy Van Biesen, who is the chiropractor to some of the highest level players on the tour, including Jordan Spieth, Justin Thomas. In fact, Justin Thomas is one of the investors in Live Pure, and just came out with his cool lime flavor. And I was at a member guest this past weekend in Kansas City, Missouri at Hallborough Country Club. And that is one of the things that helped us get through this member guest. It&#8217;s a marathon of a golf event from Wednesday to Saturday afternoon. And you better believe me, we had our [00:48:00] lip here on hand to help us get through the, Maybe there&#8217;s a couple of later nights and a little dehydration going on, but it&#8217;s important to keep it in the bag. We had it in our cart all day long. So go check out LivePure, L I V P U R. com. You&#8217;re going to get a discount with the code 18STRONG. Go over there, check them out and use LivePure to champion your day. Sean, I&#8217;m going to shift gears here a little bit. Cause I know we had a, we put out to our audience, that you were going to be on the show. So we want to get a couple of questions. So we have our crew in a segment. So I&#8217;m going to spitfire a different couple of questions at you. that may be in totally different ranges. First one comes at you from Kelly L who has a hardworking junior as a golfer, very dedicated to golfer, achieving some very high level goals. But get super, super nervous when going into competition or even before competition, what would you say to your players [00:49:00] that are achieving at a high level, but maybe suffer with a little bit of this nervousness,and really get on edge before going in to perform? Sean Foley: I don&#8217;t think nerves are a bad thing. I think the problem is nerves and anxieties feel similar, but they&#8217;re way different. if we&#8217;re nervous, blood leaves the inside and goes out to the outside, and that gives us more ability, right? Now, if we have anxiety, the opposite&#8217;s gonna happen. look, every player has to, one, really assess how they treat. How do you train? So if I&#8217;m going in the NFL season, I&#8217;ve had a bad start and I&#8217;m offensive lineman and all I&#8217;ve been doing is all the whole time all I&#8217;ve been doing is working on my backstrengths. That&#8217;s probably, I&#8217;m going to get pushed around, aren&#8217;t I? So I imagine offensive lineman from an anterior standpoint has to be very powerful. So let&#8217;s look at that [00:50:00] first before we think we have like mental issues, right? One, how does this young kid train? Okay, so if it&#8217;s like most everybody else, it&#8217;s, alignment rod down to a middle flag and hitting seven iron for two hours at the same flag. Not saying that doesn&#8217;t have its place. The last time I played golf, I didn&#8217;t have I didn&#8217;t have two circumstances that were the same, everything was different. So there&#8217;s that part that is important. The second part is getting them to understand, feeling like that&#8217;s fine. You&#8217;re feeling that because of the quality of your thinking. So when people say, I got a tournament in two days, what is that, what if never is like leads to a good, what is right. No one ever says what if this was the greatest week of my life? And so [00:51:00] getting the kids to understand one, it&#8217;s natural because so much of the brain&#8217;s process is just there to make sure we survive, not thrive, just survive, right? Thriving is like a new thing. It&#8217;s like the last 5, 000, right? But survival till that point. Okay. And so fear is natural. We&#8217;re born with it. What&#8217;s the first thing the baby does when they come out of the womb? They freak out because they&#8217;re afraid. Okay. What&#8217;s the second thing that happens? They give them to mom and then they quiet down. So fear and love are within the first minute of life. And then they both either add to or haunt us for the rest of our life. And it&#8217;s nothing, everything else is just made up names. There&#8217;s subsidiaries of those two things. So if you really love Galt. love it, right? That would do a lot to disseminate fear. But second is getting people to understand that fear [00:52:00] in most cases, that mechanism in our brain that&#8217;s there to protect us. So we have this thing called the, from what I understand, the mesocortex, which is the basal ganglia, the limbic system and the prefrontal cortex. And that is our old brain. And it is, it&#8217;s faster than the new brain. it will outdo the old brain, the new brain. So the new brain might be going, it&#8217;s okay. That noise in the trees, that didn&#8217;t sound like much. The old brain is going, that&#8217;s saber tooth tiger, even though there&#8217;s no saber tooth tigers, it&#8217;s probably a squirrel, but right. Why did we get freaked out? It&#8217;s like we&#8217;re born. This is like generations of DNA that&#8217;s been transferred through the helix. That&#8217;s a noise in a book, that&#8217;s Sabretooth Tiger, even though I&#8217;m in Algonquin where it couldn&#8217;t possibly be a Sabretooth Tiger, right? that&#8217;s why the part of that brain that we need to get people to understand, it&#8217;s mostly inaccurate. then you take [00:53:00] the word fear. And create that, the acronym that I read, which is just so perfect is fear, meaning false evidence appearing real. So one training to, to understand that most of what you&#8217;re afraid of is just false evidence that appears real to you. And then if it appears real to you, then your brain knows how to react to what that is. So those are the first two points. And then the third point is since this generation has been so about parenting has been so much about themselves and not the children, we&#8217;re flying in the face of all the academics on from neuroscience and from childhood development and from genetics saying that these kids are born with 400 traits. They&#8217;re not an empty slate at all. they come with generations of information on who they are. And The idea that we can engineer academic [00:54:00] excellence and engineer sports excellence. that&#8217;s just allowed all these rackets in children&#8217;s sports where it costs like 30 grand to be good at any sport. especially certain sports. And so I think because the parents are making it more about themselves and they don&#8217;t mean to, okay. I&#8217;m not saying I&#8217;m perfect. I, but I look in the mirror a lot, right? That&#8217;s all I&#8217;m asking anyone to do is understand that. We&#8217;re not engineering these kids, these are sheep, they&#8217;re sheep. So all we can do as a functional shepherd is to ensure that we take them to safe pastures with soil, with a lot of nutrients, and then get them to understand what happens when they walk off a cliff, that&#8217;s it. That&#8217;s all a good shepherd does. It&#8217;s just guide. It ain&#8217;t engineering, no matter what you do, you&#8217;d never turn a sheep into a bird.[00:55:00] And so I think that the kids feel an incredible amount of pressure, especially in a time where, kids have NILs with sports companies because of all their followers on Instagram. And then someone sees that and it&#8217;s goes, Oh, I&#8217;m going to do that with my kid. It&#8217;s whatever happened to like, why you play the game in the first place. So I working with people like that. It gets very simple. Remember, we&#8217;re trying to strip away, we&#8217;re not trying to add to. Why do you feel this way? One, it&#8217;s okay to feel like that. Two, Tiger Woods was nervous on the first, Tiger Woods might be the worst ever in golf off the first tee. And I bet you if you asked him that, he&#8217;d probably say he was Michael Jordan missed more shots than anyone over a decade and was the best player in the game. Why are we so afraid to go out and play bad? like the thing I&#8217;ve learned in my career, since I stopped judging myself and [00:56:00] labeling everything was I would make a mistake with a player, but I wouldn&#8217;t make it again. And so when I feel now is like the players who work with me now, they have the best version of me and definitely the most, like the least dangerous. I have very few belief systems, which I think is important because this is not about belief. if you believe in Santa, that&#8217;s awesome, but this is not about, I&#8217;m not teaching you when you come to see me, I&#8217;m not teaching you what I believe to be true. of do I have preferences? Of course, who doesn&#8217;t have preferences, but I&#8217;m aware of my preference. So by being aware of my preference, you are safe from my preference. Like the best thing about failing is that. If you really look deeply at it and you&#8217;re reflective and you&#8217;re introspective about why you think it happened. And remember, it&#8217;s probably a me problem. It&#8217;s probably not your caddy. It&#8217;s not your coach. It&#8217;s not your, it&#8217;s [00:57:00] definitely inside of you. What did, what can I learn from this? And so you win when you lose, because then you apply it the next time. So I feel like these kids now are so afraid to make mistakes. because the parents are concerned that when their kids are making mistakes, it looked, them look like they&#8217;re not apt parents. if any parent was on, was being honest, I don&#8217;t know what I&#8217;m doing. I have no idea what I&#8217;m doing. Okay. I have no idea. All right. I tried to support them, create non negotiables and have unconditional love for them. I don&#8217;t know what else I can do. Yeah. Would I like him to go to Harvard? Sure. Do I care if he does or not? I don&#8217;t. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, totally. If he&#8217;s in his board and I yell at him, it&#8217;s because he disrespected the ref. It&#8217;s not because he missed the net. I just watched the pros miss the net all day. You know what I mean? And you know what they do? They get into the next moment and they get ready for the next shot and then they shoot again. And yeah, I [00:58:00] don&#8217;t think that the kid feeling nervous is a problem. But it just depends if it&#8217;s nerves or it&#8217;s anxiety, and if it&#8217;s anxiety, then that kid is spending a lot of time thinking about the what ifs of tomorrow, which is not really responsible because there&#8217;s nothing you can do about tomorrow till tomorrow. So just getting them to be aware, I&#8217;m still gonna, these tournaments happen every week. Sometimes I sit there on Tuesday, I feel uneasy. I&#8217;m not sure what it is. I can normally draw it back to my ego and the fact that I&#8217;m wondering how Sunday&#8217;s going to go. of course, that&#8217;s why I feel uneasy because I&#8217;m not where I&#8217;m not where I&#8217;m at. So if I&#8217;m not where I&#8217;m at, I&#8217;m not going to feel natural. Cause it&#8217;s natural to be where I&#8217;m at. I&#8217;m just taking myself out of it. So all this talk about being present, you are present all the time until you take yourself out of it. It&#8217;s not a place, Jeff, that we need to get to. It&#8217;s a place that we live in. Like we take ourselves out of it. Yeah, as my career has moved on, I spent a lot more time discussing these things with players than [00:59:00] their, their golf swings. but just getting, understanding that doubt that you have is just mental constructs from previous experiences where you failed and maybe in failing you created a bit of trauma, which means it&#8217;s going to be remembered because the more emotionally you react to something, the deeper you reinforce it. Which is why having a real deep meta perspective on why you do what you do is really important because you only really fall as low as you climb high. So for me, I like to inspire people. I really enjoy the challenge of my job and I like to be right. Those are the three things. That&#8217;s me to a T. As long as I&#8217;m doing that and feeling like I&#8217;m helping others as I&#8217;m helping myself. Because every time I get them to believe in themselves more, I believe in myself more. But you can only believe in yourself when you&#8217;ve actually, when you&#8217;ve done it. And the problem is it about accomplishment or achievement, right? [01:00:00] the accomplishment is climbing the mountain. The achievement is the summit. The problem with the achievement is you can&#8217;t stay there for long because there&#8217;s no oxygen, it&#8217;s freezing cold and you got to get down and now you got to get down, but you&#8217;re going against gravity and you&#8217;re now eccentrically loading muscles that are already tired. So the better percentage of climbers die going down than going up like way more. I think it&#8217;s about more like accomplishment. to me, getting someone to understand that a lot of their doubts are mental constructs of previous experiences and it will feel real in the moment. And once again, the brain is just trying to protect you from feeling ashamed and failing. It really is. And next thing you don&#8217;t have any touch in your hands and you go out and shoot 45 and then everyone thinks it&#8217;s mental, but it&#8217;s not really mental, is it? Like it&#8217;s the brain. It&#8217;s not mental. I think if we had called mental health, [01:01:00] brain health a long time ago, we&#8217;d have way less problems with it now because mental health is like saying to someone, I got mental health issues. And they go, what&#8217;s wrong with you? nothing&#8217;s wrong with me, right? what&#8217;s wrong with me is I don&#8217;t understand what&#8217;s going on inside of it. And if I can help people understand what&#8217;s going on inside of them, am I ever going to hear like a noise in my house at two in the morning? And my first thought is not going to be saber to tiger. I&#8217;m not. But. when I understand that, for example, I&#8217;ll give you an example of like false evidence appearing real, this school shooting shit is a disaster, right? And it&#8217;s embarrassed. And this country is the greatest country in the world. And this is just a problem they shouldn&#8217;t have. And I&#8217;m not, look, I&#8217;ve not,I&#8217;m not for or against, I understand what people&#8217;s rights are. I get it. That&#8217;s that goes without saying whatever that doesn&#8217;t matter to me, [01:02:00] okay, but should I really fear that so if you look at the amount that we&#8217;ve had in the last 10 years and the amount of fatalities versus the amount of kids who&#8217;ve went to school every single day. During that time, the chances of it happening to me is as a kid is probably like 0. 00, almost infinite to the 1%. But the thing is, because our families matter so much to us. Is that when we see it, it&#8217;s like it, it deeply, do you remember where you were on nine 11? who doesn&#8217;t, right? Because the reaction emotionally was so heavy that it was reinforced so deeply that people can remember what they were wearing, what they ate for dinner the night before, the smell in the car dealership, remember crazy things. like my wedding day, I [01:03:00] remember almost every minute, but should I get to where 18 holes really matters that much to me? I don&#8217;t think I should. I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s helped because this is a problem that we cannot let our kids go to school with that concern, but we do need to also recognize that when we turn the television on, it&#8217;s in their best interest to scare the shit out of us. It&#8217;s in their best interest, right? And so I just think that, people listening to this, just ask yourself, like what you&#8217;re afraid of one, how realistic is it? So I&#8217;ve never met anyone who&#8217;s afraid of heights, whoever fell from a building. So I&#8217;ll ask people, what are you afraid of? I&#8217;m afraid of spiders. Oh, have you been bit by like a tarantula? No. Oh, okay. So by a black widow. No, I&#8217;ve never been bit by a spider. Okay. So what are you so afraid of? they just look gross. [01:04:00] I think if that person educates themselves on spiders, they might not be as scared, right? So that&#8217;s the key. that&#8217;s where the knowledge comes into it. And then the wisdom is like, all right, so what are you afraid of? I heard this place has a lot of spiders. It does, but they&#8217;re not in here. there&#8217;s a way to get rid of that, but it&#8217;s just, it&#8217;s knowledge and wisdom. So it&#8217;s, that helps create understanding people who are afraid of flying. Planes don&#8217;t go down very often, Jeff. Okay. We&#8217;re in the 0. 0 billion percentage to one, right? But what&#8217;s amazing is they&#8217;re okay with driving to the airport, which is way more dangerous than flying. So I think when you can work with someone enough and them questions and challenge it and they&#8217;re open to it. They just exterminated as Oh, I&#8217;m taking a risk by getting on a plane, but in my car, I feel like I have more control. [01:05:00] I&#8217;m like, yeah, but you don&#8217;t control anyone who&#8217;s looking at TikTok driving next to you at a hundred miles an hour. You don&#8217;t control is like elusive. it&#8217;s phony. it&#8217;s not real. And so I think by getting to some of these deeper understandings, the idea of pre shot routines and visualization and self talk and that stuff goes out the window, man. Those are all things that I&#8217;m doing there. I&#8217;m adding things. I&#8217;m adding things. Are you going to tell me that this week whoever wins the PGA Championship that their routine is the same every time? It isn&#8217;t. It&#8217;s not. It really is not. It really isn&#8217;t. You ask half of them, you visualizing the shot? They&#8217;re like, no, should I? Look, dude, they&#8217;re really good at golf, which is why they are doing that. And then they side bend a little bit and they&#8217;re really strong and they hit these beautiful high draws. And then people say, do you want to draw it? Visualize it. If the face is open at impact, the ball is never going to draw no matter how epic your imagery is.[01:06:00] Jeff Pelizzaro: Those are words to live by right there. Sean Foley: I just think, look, man, I, you know what I&#8217;m trying to have a. I want to experience life and what I&#8217;ve learned along the way is that experiencing life doesn&#8217;t mean avoiding life, like it&#8217;s the good, the bad, and the ugly, right? Like you&#8217;re going to get all sorts. And I think if you can have limited belief systems and you can almost get to the point that you don&#8217;t label anything, your experience is going to be so different. when Jeff Pelizzaro: you had a chance to work with Tiger, you mentioned him in this whole discussion here. Is there anything you mentioned? He gets nervous, maybe more nervous than most. is there anything that you learned from him in your years with him that you have continued to pass on to your students these days? Sean Foley: he&#8217;s just the most structured ever. The most attention to detail as it relates to time. I learned in our [01:07:00] first lesson that seven o&#8217;clock meant six thirty. with most of my guys, if I said seven o&#8217;clock, I could show up at seven thirty and still have time. and then just the structure in his processes. This many chips, this many putts, this many range balls, this many golf holes, this many workouts, this many calories, it was just, and I think obviously he would have learned a lot of that his dad was a green brain in Vietnam. And so very militaristic. and I think that the way the military do things in many ways is very good for developing discipline, obviously. but just a level of concentration, he&#8217;s not on his phone. He ain&#8217;t talking to anybody. He looks reclusive and hard to approach. He&#8217;s not. He just is doing his thing, right? So it&#8217;s people would say, oh, I felt like Tiger was rude. No, I think you were rude by thinking you should say Heidi. That&#8217;s, rude is your determination of somebody else&#8217;s behavior. [01:08:00] That, so that&#8217;s rude. You know what I mean? But just so locked in, yeah,I would say that just prepared, like hitting balls in rain gear just to see how much the rain gear was going to affect his swing and see the adaptations that he&#8217;d have to make to either his footwork or his rhythm or his time, and then measuring it with me on a track man to see where it&#8217;s at. And then watching most everybody else get there and it starts raining and they complain they can&#8217;t swing in rain gear, like low hanging fruit like this. This is like a great lifter who we see deadlift a thousand pounds, but we don&#8217;t see the 30 minute activation period that he does before he tries to lift it. And you&#8217;d look at it and be like, how&#8217;s that going to help him lift all that weight? It&#8217;s just all the small details, man. I think that the goats are obviously, given a physical, have a physical gift. But then I just think they&#8217;re the most passionate about the Monday [01:09:00] and they love it so much. think about being a parent so hard. Imagine if you didn&#8217;t love your kids. they would be out on the street. So it&#8217;s just the love that like life is going to be a struggle, right? And love makes that endurable. Golf is going to be a struggle and your love for the game makes it endurable. So if I really love what I do for a living, like truly love helping people, love learning and love being right. Then why do I need to be positive about it? I don&#8217;t like I could look positive or negative from the outside, but that&#8217;s just where I&#8217;m at in consciousness. And you can&#8217;t really change that. I&#8217;m going to go from up to down. What can I do physiologically to ensure that I&#8217;m going to be in a higher state all day? Wake up early, get early morning sunlight, be super focused on my hydration, get in cold water, take a cold shower for three minutes. Maybe get 10, 15 minutes of cardio and maybe push ups and pull [01:10:00] ups. And now I&#8217;ve given myself a way better chance. So I think a lot of the psychological barriers that we have in society right now. All relate to the fact that physiologically, we&#8217;re not giving ourselves the information that we, from the, you know, from us, Yeah, Jeff Pelizzaro: absolutely. we&#8217;ve done some pretty cool shows, talking about so many of these things, like even just the earthing aspect, like you said, we&#8217;re never touching our bare skin to the ground. We&#8217;re never out in the sunlight in the morning. it&#8217;s Sean Foley: When they test Jeff, when they, when Craig tests, he&#8217;s got this thing that tests voltage, in the body. a lot of this stuff is as modern as it is from a physics standpoint, Ayurvedic medicine and Chinese medicine have been saying things like this for a long time, right? Meridian systems, all the channels, it really matches with science very well. And and it&#8217;s been around for 6, 000 years and it&#8217;s been tried to be disproven for 2, 000 years and they&#8217;ve yet to do it. it&#8217;s pretty legit, right? And so I had some bad [01:11:00] bursitis in my left ankle and this thing just would not get better. And so Craig went to his mentor, Tennant&#8217;s, Dr. Tennant&#8217;s and got this device. And so he started doing these things with me. And so he put it on my ankle to see what basically it&#8217;s putting out a charge into me. So think about a stun gun, but not a stunt. Okay. And he put it down on my ankle and&#8230; He looked up at me like, you don&#8217;t feel that? And I was like, no, I don&#8217;t feel that. And he&#8217;s Whoa. And I go, what does that mean? And he hit me in the trap with it. And I literally almost punched him. And so basically said that the voltage was so low from the cells in that area. And obviously the electrons and the protons. That the voltage was so low that the light system couldn&#8217;t help the nervous system, which couldn&#8217;t help the immune system. So I couldn&#8217;t, so basically got me to stand on,[01:12:00] they look super medieval, but, Just on these metal boards and I would hold on to these two metal things here and I would just sit on it if I spent the next,if I spent the next two weeks finding a way to be on the ground an hour and a half a day, things like inflammation, arthritis, these things are all going to go down. And a lot of these, a lot of these things that we have that could be more so autoimmune that we see more than we used to. It could just be related to that. We weren&#8217;t supposed to live in cement cities and wear rubber shoes, I really think that&#8217;s part of it. And then obviously diet, but that diet&#8217;s a whole other, that&#8217;s a whole other thing. Oh man, Jeff Pelizzaro: we could go on many different tangents about all of those things, but it&#8217;s so incredible when you, like you said, they&#8217;ve been looking at all of these different things for thousands and thousands of years, and now we&#8217;re just starting to maybe understand a little bit of it [01:13:00] from a research standpoint and scientific standpoint. Yeah, Sean Foley: so many. We, look, we&#8217;re probably intellectually beyond what we&#8217;ve ever been, and it is easier to be alive now than it&#8217;s ever been, okay? But we are definitely globally, but especially North America, as unhealthy as we&#8217;ve ever been. it&#8217;s like the science of fasting and everyone&#8217;s so into it. And it&#8217;s guys, we&#8217;ve been fasting forever. We weren&#8217;t, we couldn&#8217;t pick when we were going to eat. We could only eat when we had food, man. Like it&#8217;s natural for that. Like it&#8217;s amazing of all the things that start to happen in us when we don&#8217;t have food, that are all quite very helpful. it&#8217;s,Dave Matthews has a lyric. He says, progress takes away from what took forever to find. Love it. Jeff Pelizzaro: Sean, I can&#8217;t thank you enough for coming on. I know we&#8217;ve taken up more of your time than we should have, but,this was great. I really appreciate, everything that you&#8217;re doing, everything that you&#8217;re sharing, the pro center, obviously, where&#8217;s the best place for people to go find [01:14:00] you and info on the pro center and everything you&#8217;re doing. Sean Foley: I&#8217;m at Sean Foley performance on Instagram. I&#8217;m not on Twitter cause my wife will not let me Jeff. That would be a problem. we will be a problem. and so Sean Foley performance on Instagram, pro sender golf is also an Instagram and our website between David woods. And I think you&#8217;re having David on the show in a few weeks. David&#8217;s my partner and one of my close friends. David Woods pga and, you can find us on the web at ww pro sender golf.com. And we are, we&#8217;re in stock now. We have lefty version coming out, and we finally, as of this week, have worldwide shipping, so Awesome. Jeff Pelizzaro: Awesome. We&#8217;ll definitely make sure that all that stuff&#8217;s linked up in the show. real quick before we go, I got to ask you one quick question that everybody gets on this show. Caddyshack or Happy Gilmore? Oh, come on, Sean Foley: man. Caddyshack. Who says Happy Gilmore? They got to be younger than me. They got to be. You know what? they&#8217;re younger or they&#8217;re [01:15:00] European usually. Yeah. it&#8217;s good too, but Caddyshack is oh man, that, it doesn&#8217;t, that&#8217;s that&#8217;s such a. That&#8217;s such a classic. my, the line that always pops in my head is when Ty says to Dan, he says, do you do drugs? And he says, yeah, every day. And he goes, so what seems to be the problem? it&#8217;s so good. So good. I love it. Jeff Pelizzaro: All right, my friend, great to have you on. Hopefully we&#8217;ll do this again in the future sometime and good luck with all your players. I know you&#8217;ve got a lot of players doing some pretty cool things at all levels. we just appreciate you coming Sean Foley: on. Okay, Jeff. Have a great day. Jeff Pelizzaro: Thanks for joining us this week on the 18th Strong Podcast with our guest, Sean Foley. It was such a pleasure and an honor to have him on. And to get an insight in the way that his brain thinks and the way he looks at the game, which I think is very unique. He has a very different, philosophy and way of approaching how he works with his golfers, which is really cool to hear. So if you want any more information, you want any links, you can go to [01:16:00] 18STRONG.com. This is episode number 348, and this episode is also on YouTube. So if you haven&#8217;t checked out our YouTube channel lately, we are putting all the episodes up on YouTube as well as some clips of the episode. And we&#8217;re going to be shooting a lot more videos over there. So you&#8217;re going to see some changes coming to 18STRONG. We&#8217;ve got some new branding and everything coming up. So be ready to see some changes over at 18STRONG, and we will catch up with you again next week with another great guest train hard, practice, smart, and play better golf. Episode Partners: LINKSOUL:&nbsp;For your 20% discount on LINKSOUL gear, go to&nbsp;18strong.com/linksoul&nbsp;or click the logo above. LivPur: For your 15% discount on LivPur products, go to&nbsp;LivPur.com&nbsp;(or click the logo above) and use the code &#8220;18STRONG&#8220;. 1st Phorm: Try any of the 1st Phorm products with FREE SHIPPING, go to 1stphorm.com/18strong.com More Cool Stuff to Check Out: To continue the conversation and ask any questions you may have, head over to the&nbsp;18STRONG Movement group on Facebook. 18STRONG Pro Shop (Get your 18STRONG gear!) 18STRONG Resources (All of the cool stuff we recommend: products, books, golf stuff, etc &#8211; and discount codes for the 18STRONG Crew)

Guest: Scott Stallings, three-time PGA Tour winner Host: Jeff Pelizzaro Episode Number: 347 Podcast: The 18 Strong Podcast Summary: Dive into this episode of the 18STRONG Podcast as we explore the world of professional golf with Scott Stallings, a three-time PGA Tour winner. We delve into Scott&#8217;s triumphant return to the Masters, his outstanding performance during the 2021 and 2022 seasons, and his unique fitness regimen that keeps him at the top of his game. Scott also shares his love for bourbon and challenges listeners with a 10-minute workout that requires no equipment. Main Topics Scott&#8217;s Return to the Masters Experience the thrill of the Masters through Scott&#8217;s eyes as he returns to the prestigious tournament after a seven-year hiatus. Learn about the importance of family in Scott&#8217;s journey and the challenges he faced playing in varying weather conditions. Scott&#8217;s Incredible Season in 2021 and 2022 Discover the strategies and planning that led to Scott&#8217;s successful seasons in 2021 and 2022, which ultimately led to his return to the Masters. Scott&#8217;s Fitness Regimen and Mental Game Gain insights into Scott&#8217;s fitness regimen that helps him maintain peak performance. Learn about the mental aspects of golf, and how Scott manages pressure and expectations. Scott&#8217;s Love for Bourbon Explore Scott&#8217;s passion for bourbon and get a glimpse into his impressive collection. Scott&#8217;s 10-Minute Workout Challenge Take on Scott&#8217;s 10-minute workout challenge that you can do anywhere, with no equipment needed. Are you up for the challenge? Resources Mentioned Linksoul &#8211; The preferred brand of apparel for golfers. Use the code &#8220;18STRONG&#8221; for a 20% discount. Conclusion In this episode, Scott Stallings takes us on a journey through his return to the Masters, his successful seasons, and his fitness regimen. He also reveals his love for bourbon and challenges listeners to a 10-minute workout. Tune in to the 18STRONG Podcast to hear more about Scott&#8217;s experiences and insights. Want the full episode transcript? (click the &#8220;+&#8221; ????????) Jeff Pelizzaro: [00:00:00] The 18STRONG podcast, episode number 347 with three time PGA Tour winner, Scott Stalling. What&#8217;s up guys? Welcome back to the 18STRONG Podcast where we know the stronger we are, the better we play. I&#8217;m your host, Jeff ero, and this is your first time listening to the 18STRONG Podcast. This is a show about golf, about fitness, and really about stories and experiences and guests that can come on and help us all play at our best play at our strongest, and this week the guest is no exception. We have Scott Stallings three time PGA Tour winner. Most people think when you hear the term golf fitness or a P PGA tour golfer that is. The epitome of golf and fitness. Most people will say Scott Stallings. He&#8217;s kinda become that guy in the world of professional golf. this week we get a chance to talk to Scott about everything. We talk about his return to the masters, after not being there since 2014. We talk about him having such an incredible season in [00:01:00] 21 and 22, which ultimately is what got him back to the masters. We talk fitness, we talk his mental game regimen, we talk his bourbon collection. I found out that he&#8217;s a big bourbon guy. So we discussed that a little bit. And then we have a segment at the end of the show that&#8217;s a little bit new that we call our crew NA section. So we had questions from our crew, the 18th strong community that were posed on social media and via email that we put out to Scott too. And then a last little surprise, Scott gives us a little bit of homework. 18th Strong is all about being actionable, taking steps to getting better at this game, getting your fitness ready so you can play your best golf. So I asked Scott to put together a little workout for us. So Scott&#8217;s gonna go through a little 10 minute workout that you can do anywhere, no equipment, and we&#8217;re gonna challenge the crew a little bit to do this workout and post some results. So before we jump into our episode with Scott Stall, and I just wanna say a quick thanks to our partners over at linzel. Linzel is our preferred brand of apparel, [00:02:00] whether we&#8217;re on the golf course, off the golf course, and I have a very cool surprise. Not really surprised, but very cool announcement that Linzel is now and has been for the last several months at least. They have a whole line of female apparel now. So I know that my wife has really been like, Lacking on being able to get on the links, all board, on the links, all train, because they didn&#8217;t have a whole lot of women&#8217;s apparel. And now they do. They&#8217;ve got all kinds of tank tops, sweats, a lot of leisure wear and comfortable clothes, just like the stuff that they have for us. Now they&#8217;ve got it for the ladies. So go ahead and get your wife a gift. I know that, mother&#8217;s Day has just passed, but never too late to share the link. Soul Love with the ladies. So in order to get your discount, go to 18STRONG.com/link Soul. You can click through, you&#8217;re gonna get 20% off of anything that you put in your cart, and go ahead and get yourself something while you&#8217;re there. So again, 18STRONG.com/link Soul. All right, let&#8217;s jump into our conversation with Scott Stallings. Jeff Pelizzaro: [00:03:00] Scott, welcome back to the show, man. Scott Stallings: Nice. I&#8217;m glad. the wonders of technology never cease. happy to be here. Jeff Pelizzaro: It&#8217;s finally good to get the, the Internet&#8217;s working here. It&#8217;s crazy, man. hey, I wanna start out with, I know you&#8217;ve probably had so many questions about, the whole debacle with the masters invite and everything, but I wanna touch base on you. Just going back to the Masters this year, after, I believe it was 2014, that was the last time you were there. What did it mean to you to be able to get back on the grounds, be there again, and be able to play in the Masters again? Scott Stallings: it was a incredible experience. I think that, at any person in my position, at this point in my career with my kids and everything, like I wanted, no matter, I didn&#8217;t know when it was, I just wanted to be able to participate in the tournament and have my family be able to experience it with me. That Wednesday, the part three, that&#8217;s prob that was probably my favorite day in golf in my career. I have no idea what I shot. I did not make a hole in one. I [00:04:00] watched Shamus make two hole in ones back to back. I watched Scotty Shuffler slide in the hole on the ninth hole, and he&#8217;s my son&#8217;s favorite player. and just the all-encompassing of like golf at a absolute best and family, just everything coming in together to celebrate the, the full golf and full swing. And, the masters kicks off golf season for everybody. And even though we&#8217;ve been playing for a long time, and just for my family and my kids to be old enough to remember and look back, it&#8217;s that&#8217;s a day hopefully we&#8217;ll never forget. and we&#8217;re, I have the picture of, this was when my son was, he was 14 months old. When he was at the master&#8217;s there, I adjust my screen where you see the little better. Yeah, I can see it in the left hand corner there. Yeah. But,so we&#8217;ve got some new pictures to be able to replace that. And, that&#8217;s probably my favorite, golf picture I&#8217;ve ever seen. I&#8217;m biased, obviously it&#8217;s my kid, but just all, everything about it and what it is in its purest form. the tournament was great. I felt very fortunate to get opportunity to play the weekend. struggled coming down [00:05:00] the stretch on Friday with some of that crazy weather that happened, the starting the stopping. just sorta at the wrong place in the course, at the wrong time with the weather. And, but was fortunate enough to get at some tee times on the weekend and I felt like I took advantage of them. I played a really good round on, had to go back out on Saturday and play. It meant it was brutal out there. the course that we saw on Thursday and Friday was not the course that we saw on Saturday. it was tough. I hit wedge and Gap wedge into, 17 on, I hit on Thursday or Friday and Saturday morning I hit seven wood. Oh my gosh. it was a lot different, but battled, able to work my way up to the leaderboard. Obviously feel like I, I left a few out there, like everybody probably feels the same way, but, being in the situation, it was a great week to be out there and, just deal with it, battle it at, the best golf tournament in the world. And so it was a awesome week for me and my family. Jeff Pelizzaro: How many holes did you have [00:06:00] to get out and play on Scott Stallings: Sunday? I had to play, had to play 10, so 28 holes, I deploy. I start, we, they gave us the option to tee off on 18 on Saturday, and it was, dead in, off the left at 45 degrees. And,just full rain. And I was like, we&#8217;ll see you tomorrow. We&#8217;re good. We&#8217;re good? Yeah. Jeff Pelizzaro: when you came out Sunday morning was, was it still cold? Was it still windy or was it dramatically different than Saturday? Scott Stallings: dramatically different. Honestly. I&#8217;m not sure where my drive would&#8217;ve gone on Saturday. because it was raining so hard. me, I was playing, with Charles Schwartel and we were just laughing as far as what the clubs that we were considering hitting off 18 because not none of us could hit a drive straight, just because the, there were so low spin and the, you couldn&#8217;t keep the ball dry. just like balls were going everywhere. So it was still chilly, but meant very manageable and it ended up [00:07:00] being an incredible afternoon. being able to play and, fairly. Mundane conditions compared to what we dealt with on Friday afternoon and Saturday. Jeff Pelizzaro: What, there&#8217;s a lot of talk about the course changes and obviously 13 was different. Did that play a big role in scores that weekend or just how you approached the course at all, or was it not that big of a deal? Scott Stallings: I think it, when the weather was as it was on Friday and Saturday, it was a layup like that. Was it like you, I don&#8217;t know, maybe some guys early in the day or whatever. But there was no, I, no one that I saw was getting there. so I think there, it made some of the, if you were in the, the process of going for the green, it probably made the decision and the shot execution a little bit more difficult because the ball lays in up slope as far as where the ball&#8217;s significantly above your feet. But it also makes it a lot easier to lay up too. It takes the indecision cause I hit three good drives and [00:08:00] one drive in the hazard on Thursday. I hit the top of the tree and came down, went in the hazard. I went twice. one was successful, one was not successful. But it&#8217;s just such a awkward shot from that length of distance with the ball so far above your feet to a green that really you don&#8217;t want to be left of. But obviously you can&#8217;t be right of it either. I bet in normal dry conditions, the ball kind of gets a little bit further out there and it creates that yardage where you&#8217;re definitely going for the green, but you have to deal where in years past guys were able to drive it past that second hill into a flatter spot, which made the whole significantly easier. It brought the slopes of the fairway way more at the play. What Jeff Pelizzaro: kind of shot is it, like distance wise and what club would you normally be hitting there Scott Stallings: if you were to go for it? it&#8217;s just kinda depending on pin location and stuff. Let&#8217;s just say like a normal wind, somewhere between like that, like 230, 240 down to 200. one of the practice station was straight down wind and the pin [00:09:00] was middle right. And I had, I hit eight iron, but that&#8217;s like perfect scenario down off the right, like high ball kind of pulling a little bit and it&#8217;s perfect. maybe some of the longer guys would hit it a little bit further than that. But it&#8217;s just amazing you, the line you could take from that up tee when the downwind was so much further left that you could take it just because the trees on the line now, like you can&#8217;t carry all of them no matter whether it&#8217;s down or not. Jeff Pelizzaro: You had a monster year in 2021-2022, season, and that obviously is why you got into the Masters. Just for people that don&#8217;t know, what are the qualifications that do get you back into that tournament every year? Scott Stallings: I got in, based off of making it to East Lake and competing in the tour championship. So that&#8217;s the ultimate prize that, the carrot that dangled at the end of the season. And, something we&#8217;re, striving for a chance to compete for the FedEx Cup at the very end of the year and, had a really solid regular season. super disappointed with the way that [00:10:00] I played at FedEx. I just did not drive the ball in the fairway like I needed to, to be able to play. The course, that&#8217;s probably one of my favorites. On tour, I shot, I think I shot one over, shot two over one under something like that. And because I felt like I was playing great and just didn&#8217;t really execute very well off the tee and had a couple practice days there in Memphis, made my way up to B M W,where, up in Delaware where we played Wilmington and the, we played a practice round in my, I&#8217;m like, I&#8217;m just figuring out different ways to just not like this course in my Cady and, hunter, the guy that we work with from a stats standpoint is just like putting it all together and he&#8217;s man, I think you can play great here. I don&#8217;t know if they were, if they necessarily believed it at the time, but whatever. But I&#8217;m like, man, we played our first practice round. It was windy and cool and we played it all the way back and I was just hammering four irons into these greens and I&#8217;m like, [00:11:00] man, you just can&#8217;t hit four irons into these holes and all this and that. And just progressively, as the weather shifted and the course played a little bit more like they had in mind, I started to see what my guys were saying. You play a lot of shots out of the middle of the bag, which, predominantly is the best part of my game. and there&#8217;s a few holes you just have to manage. be disciplined, have a good attitude, and go out there and take what the kind of course gives you. But then you have a good spot, especially the par threes that are in that, 60, 75, 200 range, which is, that&#8217;s where I&#8217;ve been able to stay out here for as long as I have to be able to do that pretty well. So it was a great week. Patrick clip me by one and then it, pushed me into Atlanta for the Tour Championship, which opened up a lot of opportunities for this year. Yeah. So when you do Jeff Pelizzaro: make that top 30, to go to East Lake, you get in all the majors, the players championship. what are some of the other perks that you guys get? Because I, like you said, that is the big carrot at the Scott Stallings: end of the season. [00:12:00] Yeah, it was, all the majors,player championship, invitationals, Kapalua, and then they added it on this year where you were a two, you were given a two year exemption. Oh, okay. For making it. So it was definitely a needless to say it was a big deal. Yeah. Jeff Pelizzaro: I would imagine just even scheduling wise, knowing that you&#8217;re in those, the majors for sure, Kapalua, all that stuff. how important is that to know that stuff a year ahead of time for you to be able to plan things around for the next year? Scott Stallings: It was funny, we had this conver, I did another podcast and we were just talking about just the planning aspect of how far out you need to do that. And I played the open at Hoylake, Royal Liverpool. We were playing, in, when Rory won in 2014. And I was, I was literally like the last guy in the field and my caddie and I joked that we stayed in, basically, we stayed in a different country. it was so long to get to the course based off of where we stayed. And you&#8217;re not driving, [00:13:00] you&#8217;re using a shuttle. And I remember going, I had like a. we were like first out and it was, seven o&#8217;clock or whatever, and we&#8217;re getting picked up at three 30 because we gotta drive like way far away to get to the course. And I remember driving to the golf course and I see these guys walk outta their houses, like right across the street from the course, like coffee, gym shorts. And I&#8217;m like, I am messing up something here. Cause this guy I have, we have not hit a shot and he&#8217;s five shots ahead of me. So the ability to plan and work on those things has been,a good opportunity and, gave it still like a good, a leg up and make the, plan your schedule around. I&#8217;m currently in two weeks off, took off, Vita and Wells Fargo as far as building up my schedule to know that basically after this stretch I&#8217;m home one week until August. I wouldn&#8217;t have had that freedom, to be able to do that. you try to find opportunities to be able to take two weeks off and at some point in the season, and this is my only opportunity based [00:14:00] off course fit preference, all the different things that kind of go along with that. it&#8217;s gonna be a big stretch, but it&#8217;s also something that I plan for and,some courses that really fit my eye in places. I feel like I have an opportunity to play well and compete and, look forward to being able to do that, here the remainder of the season. Yeah. the Jeff Pelizzaro: Wells Fargo, that&#8217;s one of the elevated events, right? And so I would imagine that&#8217;s a big decision to decide to take that off and, apparently is that one that just doesn&#8217;t suit your eye, even though last time you said that you came in second place at the BMW Scott Stallings: Championship. last time I played Wells Fargo, I was in the second to last group on Sunday. It really struggled. But I had a game plan throughout the course of the week that just made me look at the course a little bit differently. But my career best finished there, I think is 32nd. and the field was relatively weak, based off the, strength of field. And obviously this field will be very strong. and Byron Nelson and I&#8217;ve had the opportunity to win twice, of course that I like much better. [00:15:00] and just opportunity, you start thinking of FedEx cut points. I think, the financial incentive of elevated events is obviously a huge indicator for a lot of people. But,a course fit and, understanding that an extra week off in the grand scheme of things, for me to feel like I&#8217;m obligated to go play a place that doesn&#8217;t necessarily fit, what I like to see, especially off a t, I like it for about two and a half days, and then I stop the ability to be able to cut my irons and start just hitting big draws. And when I have to feel like I play, like that is where my game just goes to struggle. And so I can hang in there for a little bit and then as soon as that ball stops falling right, it, those left pins really start looking better and that thing starts slinging over. It&#8217;s oh my gosh, I feel like it takes me a month. I feel like it takes me like a month to get out of it. Jeff Pelizzaro: what has your thought been about, just the changes of the season this year with the elevated events, you think that things are working out well and then I know there&#8217;s some big changes coming next year. what are your thoughts there?[00:16:00] Scott Stallings: I think probably it, it, Liv pushed the tour to make some changes. They were planning on doing probably faster than they were wanting to the FedEx Cup and all that stuff. And, I feel like we get it to a good spot where people generally understand the FedEx Cup and what, whatever it is. And then we go a couple years where we don&#8217;t have any real turmoil and then all of a sudden we just had to change it, where not even the players really understand what&#8217;s happening. so I don&#8217;t know if that&#8217;s an overreaction or under reaction. I&#8217;m not in those meetings, but from a player&#8217;s perspective, it seems like the idea of, there&#8217;s two tours in one now. Essentially they&#8217;re creating three. And as a player that&#8217;s been at some point in my career, in all phases of those. To go from one to the next was difficult, but from go to two or one, which would be the newcomers, Korn Ferry guys. And to be able to go to that top tier, fully elevated, 700 point events, 20 million persons like to crack your way into [00:17:00] those out of the tournaments that those guys have an opportunity for. It seems very hard to get into, but also very hard to get out of because that&#8217;s the only tournaments you&#8217;re playing, your world ranking stabilizes. your FedEx Cup point allotment is so much higher and so your ability to play your way in some guy that came from. That newer category of tour player to that upper echelon, that guy has played incredible. And obviously they&#8217;ll be somebody that does that. the new crop of players are incredibly talented, but it, it does seem a little one-sided. and, but it goes to show that the financial incentive from a lot of things, is not necessarily the driving force for certain people. We saw Rory, miss out on Harbortown and, basically, forfeited 3 million bucks. I think that&#8217;s, that&#8217;s something that people look at as far as him being the driving force. Rory and I get along very well. and would, it could honestly could not say a bad thing about him, but when you start to look out from that [00:18:00] perspective,if it&#8217;s that easy to take, tournaments away, that basically you were given a. just by competing in the event, we&#8217;re guaranteed the full value of your PIP bonus. I think that it&#8217;s just more the opportunity to create that competitive environment for that many weeks as sponsors and different things can go along to it instead of just people are just looking at the pure financial aspect of it. And I think that&#8217;s where people see the money from Liv and the Elevated and start to look at it instead of like, why are we doing this instead of starting to see at it. Obviously there&#8217;s financial incentives in a lot of things that we do, but I think that is the, gets picked up by the media instead of the players as far as what we look at. It&#8217;s and we wanna play and compete against the best. and that&#8217;s something that,I think somewhat gets overlooked when everyone just focuses on the financial part. Jeff Pelizzaro: Is that something, just the whole scenario, is it something that the PGA tour really sits down and listens to you guys? I would imagine there&#8217;s a big contingent of you guys, players association and you guys are all discussing this in the locker rooms and there&#8217;s [00:19:00] lots of talks going on. Is it something that you guys come to the table and discuss or is it a little bit top down, this is what we&#8217;re Scott Stallings: doing? Yeah, it&#8217;s very top down, very much, after the fact. but to be honest, those guys have earned the opportunity to be a driving, driving force in the game. And, I&#8217;d be lying if I said I didn&#8217;t benefit from the opportunity of them, staying with their,loyalty to the tour and helping push it in the direction that it is currently. I&#8217;m not naive to that fact. I do think that they&#8217;re the way that the schedule and the things are played out, I think there&#8217;s. Maybe some things that are being overlooked. I think the fall schedule and looking back to early parts of my career when the fall banded together to be a part of the FedEx Cup and, to get some insulation and coverage from benefiting of being a FedEx Cup event, rather than when it was just the fall by itself. I think those tournaments have fought really hard to be very relevant, and have huge impacts on guys starting to the [00:20:00] season and now, I think it&#8217;ll be pretty wild to see how those tournaments are affected as far as, what kind of fields, opportunities, sponsor obligations and where the interest falls. I don&#8217;t think anyone really knows the answer. but I, it&#8217;ll be very interesting to see,what that plays out, coming forward, especially with the schedule once after the playoffs are over. Gotcha. Jeff Pelizzaro: As far as your personal goals for this season is are they something that you sit down and say okay, this year I want to, like East Lake is my goal, or are there different levels of your goals short-term, long-term? And do you sit down with a team or do you sit down, just in a quiet room by yourself and put these things on paper? Scott Stallings: A little bit of both. I remember I played with Sahi, Sala at. East Lake and he was griping. We played together on Sunday and he is the absolutely fantastic dude. and he was just getting a little bit chirpy. He was not necessarily hitting it what he is capable of. And I said, ma&#8217;am, I one thing to think about if you&#8217;re gonna play bad, he might as well play bad here. And [00:21:00] he just looked at it. I said, man, you&#8217;re a rookie and you made the tour championship. And he just looked at me and just started buying laughing. He goes, man, I never thought of it that way. but you don&#8217;t know what you&#8217;re missing until you have the opportunity to experience. And obviously East Lake and everything that came with it and all the stuff that the tour has done to create such a incentive to be a part of that event as far as everything that comes with it. And it was just very, eye-opening to man, this is something that I knew that I needed to strive hard to be here. But now even more, it&#8217;s here we go. Obviously it goes to that same, being a part of that event and all that comes to. but you have to, it doesn&#8217;t just happen in one week now, the seven, the big thing from 1 25 to seven is a huge difference. So consistent play throughout the course of the year, you have to accumulate week in and week out. I haven&#8217;t necessarily capitalized on Sundays as well as I should have. with that kind of being said, there&#8217;s a lot of opportunity to come with it being forward, but,I want that feeling. I want the opportunity coming down the stretch [00:22:00] on Sunday and see what I&#8217;m working with and, manage the emotion, anxiety and all that stuff that comes along with it and, have a chance to compete for a title and,I feel like I&#8217;m making the steps in the right direction to be able to do that. With your Jeff Pelizzaro: two weeks off here, what does this kinda look like? I&#8217;m sure it&#8217;s great to be home and be able to chill out, hang with the family, prep wise, do you take a little downtime? The first. Part of the time that you&#8217;re home, what do,what&#8217;s the schedule like? Are you pretty regimented with the schedule for these two weeks? Scott Stallings: Trying to do as much as I can, and basically from my time my kids are taking us, we, we take them to school and by the time we pick &#8217;em up, I&#8217;ve got two young kids, seven and 10, and they&#8217;re full going extra school&#8217;s over with soccer, gymnastics, lacrosse, all these different things. So I wanna be as much of their lives outside of school as I possibly can. So that sort of dictates what happens, afternoon, morning, this and that. But, being that&#8217;s two weeks off, I train a little bit different,[00:23:00] than I normally do and practice a little bit different where, when one week off, I try to touch, each and every part of my game in a little bit, part of the fitness aspect, throughout the course of the week. And there may be like major focuses, but you&#8217;re still doing like the little things each and every day just to maintain wherein two weeks off, you can try to take bigger chunks and focus on and compartmentalize different parts of your game, different parts of fitness to be able to get the most opportunity to benefit from the most amount of time I&#8217;m gonna have for the remainder of the year. Jeff Pelizzaro: I saw a couple videos showing off the, the suite in that you guys put into your, at your house, and so you&#8217;ve got pretty much everything you need there. What do your workouts look like maybe this week, next week? we post on social media and we&#8217;ve got some questions from our crew later on, but so many people, obviously, this guy, you&#8217;re known as the fitness guy on the tour and people ever wanna know, what is Scott Stallings doing in his workout? What&#8217;s he doing when he is home? What&#8217;s he doing when he is on the tour? So what&#8217;s this look this week look like for you? Is it [00:24:00] just you in the gym? Do you have some buddies coming over? I know every now and then, at least during the covid times. You said you were having some people come over to the gym and do some group workouts, things like that. Scott Stallings: a little bit different. normally I follow a schedule of like tournament weekend stuff, heavier, slower, longer into shorter, faster, lighter. It would basically imagine like a Monday through Sunday, all depending on when I travel. And yeah, once Thursday through Sunday comes, relative to my tee times. try to get the vast majority of the heavier lifting done as far away from Thursday as I can. But with two weeks off, I. Traditionally mix, cardio and strength together, where with two weeks off, I have a little bit of opportunity to deal with, a little bit of soreness, a little bit of discomfort. So I separate, cardio and strength completely, and split it up into their shorter sessions, but they&#8217;re isolated to those like individual components, deadlift, squat, all the different stuff that kind of goes where you can definitely build in some strength, but Not necessarily incorporate the [00:25:00] cardio implement and do that separately. And, I&#8217;ve ran, I&#8217;ve rode, I&#8217;ve biked and just done everything either morning or afternoon and kind of compliment each other, based off what I&#8217;m doing. But as the week progresses, get back into a normal schedule. We had a big group workout today. had some University Tennessee guys come over this morning. They ran &#8217;em through some stuff, like a team workout. And then I had some other buddies of mine come over and we ran through a little bit added bonus of what the guys did this morning. I don&#8217;t mind working out by myself. I don&#8217;t mind working out with a group. I was very fortunate to have a lot of people come alongside me and help push me in the right direction as far as in my, health and fitness journey, whatever that looked like. and so if I have an opportunity to speak in or show someone, what I had, what I&#8217;ve had an opportunity to learn from, I&#8217;m, you very open that opportunity and not something I take lightly. So we had Jeff Pelizzaro: you on the show back in 2017, I think it was episode number 1 25. And so now, five years later. I&#8217;m curious, how have [00:26:00] the workouts changed at all? A little bit. I know, you&#8217;re 38 years old now as opposed to 32 back then. the body changes a little bit. are there different emphasises, are there different focuses? What&#8217;s the recovery like these days? How have things changed since the last time you were on Scott Stallings: the show? I think,it&#8217;s still at that part in 17. I was still trying to figure out what fitness looked like. I really only knew how to met Conlin. I really knew only had a new, light and fast. Like I didn&#8217;t know how to really separate like. Heavy and slow, light and fast and like complimentary movements and like sort of protagonist antagonist pushing and pulling, up, down, left. A b ab what all that, how you&#8217;d put it all together. And, and to be honest, I was the training aspect was a huge part, but it was more just the health and trying to figure out what, where training was implemented throughout what I was doing day in and day out. And there was a lot of times where it felt like I was working out way more than I was practicing and my game [00:27:00] probably showed it, but in the time that I had made all those changes, like golf was not my priority. Eh, I felt like if I didn&#8217;t give the due diligence to figure out all those other shows, I was not gonna be able to play just because I needed to establish some habits that were gonna be lasting instead of just like flashing the pan. oh, maybe we&#8217;re gonna try fitness for a little bit and then see how it affects. no, we&#8217;re gonna figure out how this affects life and then see how golf fits in there. And so I think that&#8217;s a little bit where the story kind of gets backwards. oh, I did it for my game. It&#8217;s like I never thought about golf. like I was thinking of my wife and my kids and myself like, and just, man, if I got to play, that was a bonus. So I definitely feel like I got a second chance at my career and opportunity to go and play and compete against the best players in the world and have an opportunity to speak and tell some stories as far as how I neglected basically everything you could possibly neglect. blame everyone other than myself and take zero responsibility and then get smacked in the face and realized it was all on [00:28:00] me and I was the reason that I was in the situation. I was. And thankfully I had some people that were very willing to give their time and energy to help push me in the right direction and, make some changes that hopefully be lasting and have an impact that, you know, throughout the rest of my life, whether I&#8217;m playing or not. Jeff Pelizzaro: have you and I would assume, I know you work a lot with the guys at University of Tennessee and a lot of younger players. Are there some younger guys on tour that you&#8217;ve, had some of these candid conversations with or not, and I&#8217;m not asking for names or anything, but,where you&#8217;ve given them like, hey, this is what really helped me figure this out and this is the direction I went and, giving them the pros and cons of what they might be doing Scott Stallings: or not doing. Yeah, I had some guys this morning, and that guy was like, man, this is the most I&#8217;ve ever done before 8:00 AM And he&#8217;s and I looked at him and he&#8217;s what do you think about that? I was like, man, this is Thursday. And he just is like dumbfounded and just And this is just part of my day. Like I don&#8217;t really think about it like that. And this isn&#8217;t like a macho, like a beat [00:29:00] head thing. This is just man, I&#8217;m gonna train, I&#8217;m gonna practice. I&#8217;m like, it&#8217;s, I ha I had a really funny conversation with a friend of mine and he always starts like, what&#8217;d you work out today? Or Did you work out today? I was like, at some point you&#8217;re gonna realize that there&#8217;s training involved in every part of my day. throughout the entire week. Some days that&#8217;s mobility. Some days that&#8217;s a walk. Some days that&#8217;s a full on I&#8217;m over a rail in the backyard. there&#8217;s some training is evolved in every aspect of my life and, whether it&#8217;s playing, practicing, working out, all the different things. so being able to build that and tell that story and, because the moment that you think that you&#8217;re good enough, the moment that you think you&#8217;ve got it all figured out is the moment you just get, you just, you&#8217;re like that tortoise in the hair, man. You&#8217;re just coasting along and all of a sudden you see this guy with a hundred twenty nine, nine hour clubhead speed that&#8217;s flying at three 40 and you&#8217;re just like, where did that come from? And it just hits you outta nowhere and you&#8217;re sitting there man, I&#8217;m good enough [00:30:00] right now. And next thing you&#8217;re not continuing. Cause the best in the world, the guys that are literally holding the titles week in and week out, they&#8217;re consistently trying damned out, figure out ways to get better. and if you&#8217;re not doing that, and the moment I&#8217;m not even telling &#8217;em touch the break, I&#8217;m saying the moment that the foot comes off the gas at all, these guys are racing right by you. And that&#8217;s the mentality you have to have as far as to go play and compete at this level. And, thankfully,have gathered a way to, to add that in notes, my routine and mentality and, be able to build it into a daily habit, but also figure out a way to get off the course, get outta my own head, utilize fitness and training to, to, be where I went, on good days where I go on bad days and everywhere in between, it all starts and end of the training. Has it Jeff Pelizzaro: become a, almost like a meditation for you or like a release where that&#8217;s some, one of those things where it&#8217;s like you get antsy if you haven&#8217;t trained that day or if you haven&#8217;t done something. and also on the other side of that, are there any specific like mental game things, meditation [00:31:00] that you have implemented over the course of the last several years that also help you with the way that you play and perform on the course? Scott Stallings: Yeah, my caddy, John, he&#8217;s worked for me, work. We&#8217;ve worked together for eight years and he&#8217;ll be the first to tell you, I&#8217;ll come out there some days and he&#8217;ll be like, what is going on? we&#8217;ll try to do some drills or this and that. And I&#8217;ll be like, squirrel, like just looking somewhere all over the place. And he&#8217;d be like, man, have you like moved your body or I like, nah man, I just slept and came out here and he. Get outta here. this is pointless. we&#8217;re not gonna do anything functional today until you go figure out something else, and then we&#8217;ll come back and try something later. yeah, I do a lot. I wouldn&#8217;t necessarily say I, I do well in competition as far as, making games with myself, whether it&#8217;s practice, play, competition, whatever that looks like. And figuring out ways to compete against myself. Obviously I&#8217;m competing against the course and my, fellow players on tour, but, [00:32:00] I feel like if I can hold myself to certain standards, whether that&#8217;s in the shot or, within a week, if I can maintain that and have some checks and balances in there, like my, my good, can&#8217;t compete with the best in the world. It&#8217;s, and it&#8217;s at this level, it&#8217;s not what your good is, it&#8217;s what your bad is. It&#8217;s like how good is your bad? And can you compete with that like b, c, D game? Tiger made so famous. It&#8217;s like I made hit four fairways and shoot 65 of yours. man, I don&#8217;t have that. I shaved four fairways. I&#8217;m like trunk slamming on Fridays. but just trying to figure out different ways to, play and compete with myself, but also understand and figure out ways that guys continually pushing themselves to get better. and again, just like with fitness, just like we&#8217;re playing and everything, or life, the moment that you figure it out, like it&#8217;s the moment that you hadn&#8217;t figured out anything and just there&#8217;s so many opportunities to learn and figure out better ways to get better at, whether it&#8217;s engulfing life. And I think that the [00:33:00] moment that you stop learning and training is like you, you can&#8217;t operate out here with what? Put out the door. Jeff Pelizzaro: Let&#8217;s take a little break here to thank our partners over at Live Pure. Live Pure is a hydration product. That you are gonna want to have in your golf bag, in your gym bag because it&#8217;s gonna handle anything that you need when it comes to your hydration, it&#8217;s got the electrolytes you need. It&#8217;s gonna help replenish your system. On the hot muggy Dayss, which we&#8217;re already starting to have here a little bit in St. Louis, but they&#8217;ve got the energy, they&#8217;ve got the Hydrate, and they&#8217;ve got the recovery. They&#8217;re gonna handle everything that you need. Whether you&#8217;re on the golf course, you&#8217;re in the gym, you&#8217;re sweating it out. You wanna make sure that you have live Pure in your bag. All you have to do is tear open one of the pre-made little packs, dump it right in with the water, and you&#8217;re set. They&#8217;ve got incredible flavors including making blue raspberry flavor for all of the products they&#8217;ve got you covered. So go to live pure.com. That&#8217;s L I V P U r.com. Use the code 18STRONG to get your discount on every order that you [00:34:00] place and use Live Pure to champion your day. Who out there on tour, if any, are guys that you practice with a lot, play some of these games with you. I feel like the people you surround yourself with often are, some of your best friends, but they&#8217;re also the ones that push and challenge you the most too. And either on the course, in the gym, whatever it might be. Are there certain guys that you kinda lean on and that lean on you when you&#8217;re out there? Or maybe back when you&#8217;re in Tennessee at home, you have a group of buddies it sounds like, that come over to the gym. anybody specific on tour though that would play that role A little bit. Scott Stallings: probably more just my team in general. I&#8217;m pretty, I would say that if I do anything, I&#8217;m pretty regimented as far as the time that I spend doing things. And I try to plan out my day well in advance. And I don&#8217;t want, I&#8217;m not nec like I would say that on the road, I&#8217;m fairly selfish with my time. Just in the fact of I golf is very counterintuitive to my personality because I am not patient. I don&#8217;t have the necessarily cognitive attributes to be good at the game. Just, it takes a lot [00:35:00] for me to, I. Zero in. So if I, if that is involved in my practice or week where I&#8217;m waiting on someone else or whatever, I&#8217;ve become very dysfunctional and I&#8217;m aware of that. So I try to create as much of focus on the things you can control my schedule, time, management body times that I train, all these different things to where I&#8217;m not constantly having to utilize the things that I need once the tournament goes around. because man, I can do it. But the having the other attributes of a week as far as playing in prep, like I&#8217;m not a 18 hole practice strong guy. I&#8217;m a,I need to, time and attention in certain quantities and be able to do it when it matters. But, I would say when I&#8217;m home, it&#8217;s a lot different. just for the simple fact of, I know that, the competition side is not coming. So I do create those same things a little bit, imbalance, uncomfortable situations, whether it&#8217;s with the Tennessee guys, other guys that I play with, other pros in the area, whether I travel or not, and be able to [00:36:00] try to find those uncomfortable moments. So where, when it continually happens, week in and week out on tour, you can remind yourself of this is what I did. And, constantly remind yourself of I know my good is good, but how can I continue to make my bad a little bit better? And so we do a lot of things like that. When you&#8217;re out there Jeff Pelizzaro: practicing for the golf game specifically, what are the things that you tend to spend the most time on? And then,what&#8217;s something that you really don&#8217;t like to practice you have to practice? Scott Stallings: I would definitely spend most of my time from inside 150 yards. If you ask any one of the Tennessee guys, they&#8217;ll say that I don&#8217;t hit balls, which is true, but also not true. I&#8217;m not scared to go in there and have a session. But if I&#8217;m, if the ball is flying out there the way that I&#8217;m expecting it to, like I&#8217;m not in, I&#8217;m not in the habit of trying to figure out how to hit it bad. And,so I know that there&#8217;s no person on earth that ever said they were too good at chipping and pudding or wedge flags. So I spent a lot of time in that area. I do [00:37:00] not enjoy hitting balls. I enjoy, like the new Strokes game thing on TrackMan has completely revitalized my practice because I&#8217;m gaming it and, competing against that kind of stuff. So I, I enjoy that a lot. so those situations I feel like has helped me a lot. But I can chip and putt all the time cause that&#8217;s something that growing up, high school, college stuff I neglected because I always hit it pretty good and never realized like, man, these are where you spend all your shots. I approved from 1 0 7 to 37 in stroke can pudding in a year. and obviously everything of that translated to scores on course opportunities to, to compete week in and week out, made a huge difference. And, so focus on the little areas is something that I try to touch that at every single part of my day, whether I&#8217;m playing or practicing before, during, and after. And, something that I&#8217;ll continue to do, for the remainder of my career. You&#8217;ve mentioned the Jeff Pelizzaro: University of Tennessee guys quite a bit. Do you do a lot of work with them? [00:38:00] And what&#8217;s a session like when you go out with those guys? I&#8217;m always curious what that dynamic is with these youngsters. I&#8217;m sure there&#8217;s a few hot shots they want to take down. The big dog, what&#8217;s that Scott Stallings: like? I don&#8217;t know. I do a lot of stuff with just the state of Tennessee in general as far as junior golf, whether our kids play free program, a tournament called the Scotty, which is a, team four ball. We have the junior cup where we split Tennessee down the Middle East versus west. 10 boys and four girls. we&#8217;re on our 12th season of that. so just have a little bit of touches throughout, whether new beginner developmental to upper echelon as far as, every single part of junior golf and. Brita Webb has built an unbelievable program over there and some really great guys that are playing and competing for him. and as much as I hate to say it, they&#8217;ve probably helped me as much as I&#8217;ve helped them. it doesn&#8217;t take much of an 18, 19 year old kid talking some trash before you realize that. Like, all right, I gotta show these guys. This old guy still got it. I played with them the other day and they were asking me if I needed to play the senior tees. they&#8217;re pretty ruthless now. But it&#8217;s a, [00:39:00] it&#8217;s a cool opportunity to be able to help, like it was just a situation if man, if I had access, like I would literally never leave the guy alone if I was their age. And it just so happens, it doesn&#8217;t matter that it&#8217;s me, but it&#8217;s just someone that doesn&#8217;t, at that level, they aspire to be. And,their facility is a joke. literally incredible as far as there&#8217;s no stone unturned and just Eddie in every opportunity to be better. So very thankful for him for the opportunity to be able to play and practice and, hopefully leave it a little bit better. And I found it. but it&#8217;s all to get to the sit it&#8217;s all situational. It&#8217;s, what&#8217;s needed. there&#8217;s probably a few things that we do. We&#8217;d probably just like to keep it to ourselves. Not that we feel like we&#8217;ve got the secret sauce or whatever, but we&#8217;ve got some stuff that in house that we manage to ourselves as far as some games that we like to operate. And,some scenarios we like to recreate it, especially being the fact that in college they have to balance stroke, play, and match play at the, in their ultimate event, whether it&#8217;s s e c Copper Championship [00:40:00] or NCAAs. And that is a weird dynamic as far as how you manage a golf course. Basically, you&#8217;re playing the same golf course and back to back days. One is a stroke play to be able to qualify for match play and then where score is. The ultimate indicator as far as if your team succeeds or not, who are in match play score. Obviously the lower score the better, but not necessarily the mentality as far as how you go about it. So putting guys and, constantly trying to find situations where you have to balance that and be able to work with what sides of your brain and situational awareness, different things like that. And as much as I&#8217;m doing it with, like taking these guys through that, I&#8217;m doing it myself as well. And so that&#8217;s probably a, a. Something that&#8217;s helped me tremendously. And just the competition side as far as I just don&#8217;t want to get beat by them. because I will never hear the, if I beat them, it&#8217;s expected. If they beat me, I&#8217;m just, if I beat them nine outta 10 times, they&#8217;re only talking about them one time they beat me. it&#8217;s just you know that, hey, once [00:41:00] that ball grows in the air, like it&#8217;s just a different scenario and you better be buttoned up. the chair is strong with those guys, so it&#8217;s fun. I told us, I, I said man, and I told one of our kids and I said, if you could learn to practice and apply the amount of trash talk that you can do with yourself and others, you would literally never lose a tournament. And so hopefully we can get him just turned the corner on that. this Jeff Pelizzaro: is funny, and this, I might, inquire some help from you here because I find myself now in this predicament really, that most guys I think are in your kids are a little younger. You said 10 and seven, I believe. But,I have a 15 year old boy just made the freshman golf team. And so it&#8217;s funny how that&#8217;s awesome. All of a sudden, like it just kicks in this competitive instinct in me. I never want this kid to beat me, ever. and I didn&#8217;t play any high level golf or anything, but now it&#8217;s like I&#8217;m really starting to put more time into my game. And, get a little better at my trash talking as well for the youngster. but [00:42:00] I don&#8217;t think he even knows that this is, this competition is at the forefront right now. But, I think so many guys, and I&#8217;ve talked to a couple of my buddies, it&#8217;s like now that our kids are starting to get to that age where we know eventually they&#8217;re gonna hit it farther than us, they&#8217;re starting way younger than me and my buddies did playing golf. And it&#8217;s man, it&#8217;s funny how it just kicks in our instinct to start putting in the time, putting in a little more work. So I&#8217;m gonna implore you to give all of us. Older guys, what advice would you have for us going in getting, knowing that we&#8217;re prepping to beat these youngsters as long as we possibly can? What&#8217;s a couple words of wisdom from Scott Scott Stallings: Stallings? Oh man. Like the harder you can throw the needle, the better. I give my guys a hard time all the time as far as, whether it&#8217;s our junior golfers or our college, whatever, as far as when they&#8217;re standing over it, just saying. I was a member at Whisper Rock for a long time in Scottsdale and there was one of the greatest trash talkers of all time that lived there. And he got this guy just in stitches because he said, man, no one else can hear those [00:43:00] voices as he was standing over it. because you could just tell this guy was like, man, he was going through it. And so I, I had taken that from him. and I tried to. because their physical talent and ability is far greater than mine. So I gotta supplement like my experience and discipline, some different things. like I gave the example of the they don&#8217;t know that these things are supposed to be feared or whatever. It&#8217;s like they see flag and this is at all level, like it doesn&#8217;t matter. They see pin, they don&#8217;t see like the fiery forest they have to get through. Instead of I&#8217;m like over here man, we can just walk around and we&#8217;re good. And I think that now there is a situation when it&#8217;s the perfect number and you gotta be able to get you in there man you gotta be able to step on the gas. But also there&#8217;s a scenario of knowing what not to do as well. And so he, I think that there&#8217;s a lot of things that where you can benefit from a little bit of experience that kind of goes a long way. But [00:44:00] also try to continually put themselves, because whether you&#8217;re a dad or a coach or whatever, like you want them to learn and have this, awareness enough so when they sit down, they&#8217;re like, all right, I get what you&#8217;re talking about. Because it&#8217;s one thing to be able to tell &#8217;em, but it&#8217;s another thing to be able to show &#8217;em. And so that&#8217;s a lot of what I do, whether it&#8217;s some juniors and stuff that I work with or the college guys or pros or whatever. I try to find scenarios where we talk about a question or whatever, just like that. And I put &#8217;em in a spot of like, where there&#8217;s indecision, yo, it&#8217;s different. It&#8217;s a perfect nine iron pins perfect, whatever, man. hit it. But it&#8217;s when we don&#8217;t know and how to make your second decision first. And so that&#8217;s the scenario as, as much as my son doesn&#8217;t really show any interest in golf or whatever, but man, I would love the day that he beat me. that wouldn&#8217;t bother me at all, just for the simple fact of I&#8217;ll play against the best players in the world. if he&#8217;s beating me, like he&#8217;s doing something. And I think that&#8217;s just a [00:45:00] different thing because of what I do for a living. but it is funny like seeing some of the younger guys, like where you, they have their island, the prize or whatever, they&#8217;re gonna beat this guy, then that&#8217;s gonna lead to being this guy instead of eventually if you start to look at it from a little different perspective, you&#8217;re just gonna beat everybody so that, hopefully be able to navigate those and you&#8217;ll help them learn from themselves. We&#8217;ll also just keeping just a little bit of an edge and. Yo. because as soon as they figure out it&#8217;s over for you. I know. so hold onto it as long as you can. Jeff Pelizzaro: Yeah, I, and that&#8217;s the cool part, right? Because obviously as a dad, I want him to be the best possible player. He can&#8217;t be the best young man that he can. really, but, the day that he out is out driving me on a consistent basis, it&#8217;s gonna be bittersweet. The time that he starts beating me on a consistent basis gonna be bittersweet. But I want him to be the best he can. I&#8217;m gonna try to do everything I can to give him those resources. And I think that&#8217;s what&#8217;s neat is it then pushes me to, just to hang on a little bit longer. I gotta push myself a little bit more too. And I think [00:46:00] a lot of the guys and girls listening to our podcast are right there. That&#8217;s why. They&#8217;re interested in the stuff that, that you do, the fitness, the habits, the mental game, the practice. And so it&#8217;s just a fun little game that we&#8217;re playing, but is a way to, to keep moving along and just continuing to get a little bit better. So appreciate that. But, yeah, if your son grows up and starts beating you, that means he&#8217;s a pretty Scott Stallings: quality player. Yeah, we&#8217;re battling lacrosse and all the other things that I don&#8217;t know anything about. So I just sit on the sidelines and I cheer for the coach and make sure everyone&#8217;s having a good time, have as much many snacks as they need to, and, that&#8217;s where I&#8217;m at. I love it. Speaking Jeff Pelizzaro: of having a good time, rumor has it that you&#8217;ve got a little stock of some whiskey at the house that, you&#8217;ve become a bit of a whiskey connoisseur. I wanna know, first of all, being a Tennessee guy, are you more of a Tennessee whiskey, that&#8217;s I think sour mash, or is that, are you more of a bourbon guy? Scott Stallings: I spreaded around. I don&#8217;t have a distinct loyalty, to any, brand or [00:47:00] whatever. Taylor is my favorite. as far as just one like bottle that&#8217;s just sticks out. and that was. I would say that&#8217;s the one that&#8217;s week in and week out. If someone asked me what that is, or anyone that knows me would sit there and say, man, like he&#8217;s never gonna see that tall yellow label and be disappointed. but, I spread around and I just, I&#8217;ve gotten very involved in the nuance of it. I&#8217;ve become friends with some distillers as far as how the whole process works and how you can literally take all these just random things and put it in this whole situation and a little bit of heat, a little bit of time, a little bit of this, a little bit of that. And next thing you get something completely different. And so I like the process of it a lot. and, just very interesting to me for whatever reason. And, so I&#8217;ve established a little bit of a collection,by no means like anything to call home about, but something that, you know, I&#8217;m interested in and something that I, continue to do and, share glass with a buddy every now and then go figure out a way to,[00:48:00] do something different. I heard Jeff Pelizzaro: when you were,back in when everything was kinda shut down, covid days, you kinda became the mixologist of the neighborhood. What, correct, what one, what did, what&#8217;d you get best at? What was your cocktail that you were the Scott Stallings: best at making? I don&#8217;t like gin at all. I just do, I think it smells like pine trees. It&#8217;s like someone that like, doesn&#8217;t like chi tea or whatever. It&#8217;s just man it, for whatever reason, I just do not enjoy it. I&#8217;ve had some of the best people in the world make. What do they think it is? man, this just got something in it that I don&#8217;t like. But I have a friend of ours that&#8217;s, a children&#8217;s hospital doctor, and obviously during covid and stuff, man, they were just, Working a tremendous amount of time. And for whatever reason I ended up making more like gin batches of different things like that. So I didn&#8217;t necessarily, I learned to like it, I learned to tolerate it. But I had a few different recipes that were, Friday afternoons is when we would do that. And we got a, one of those [00:49:00] like big giant mailboxes, our end of our driveway, and they&#8217;d have their labels written on these big mason jars and guys would pick &#8217;em up Friday afternoons for the weekend or whenever. And but I had a couple, Tennessee inspired, one I hadn&#8217;t won. Feels like 98 based off the national championship. it&#8217;s all orange tequila,a couple other things. but mostly I just matched everything together and,when my daughter actually went back to school, she talked about one of the favorite things that she did at home while she was home, and she told her teacher, we made margaritas. And that was just like, that was like the email from the teachers. what are we doing? But the teacher said, we have some teachers here that would like that. so if that happens again, let us know. Jeff Pelizzaro: She&#8217;s carrying margaritas in her backpack to school. Scott Stallings: Yeah, we have not gotten that yet, but, to a, for a little bit. And that&#8217;s the direction we were headed. Love it. Jeff Pelizzaro: All right, Scott, we&#8217;re gonna close out with some questions. we pulled the audience and had some people from our crew sending in some questions for our crew and a segment. So I&#8217;m just [00:50:00] gonna roll through these pretty quick ones, and then we&#8217;ll get wrapped up here. First one is from James Lee on Instagram. He wants to know how many ACEs have you had and what was the most memorable one? Scott Stallings: I have had nine in my life. I had four on tour. They were all memorable for a different reason. my first one, day before my 13th birthday, the Tiger wins like masters and just starts this whole golf thing. I made one on Father&#8217;s Day with my dad, CADed for me. we were at the Korn Ferry event. It was nationwide, the time in Knoxville, and we went out and played. it was for, we did a Father&#8217;s Day clinic, junior clinic, and he was Cady for me. We not did this like nine hole exhibition thing and the second hole at Foxton, they don&#8217;t play there anymore. They play Holston, which is my home course here in town. And I made it and it was just like crazy. So that was him, Cady for me, walking around the course. That was pretty cool on Father&#8217;s Day to be able to go. And so that was probably the one that, I remember the most. That&#8217;s so awesome. [00:51:00] Jeff Pelizzaro: We got Rob, m g o Blue 7 25 from Instagram says, he wants to know what your typical nutrition on like game day looks like. What does that. Look like if you&#8217;re on tour, what&#8217;s breakfast and maybe some encore stuff that you tend to go to? Scott Stallings: it just kinda depends on when I play. I normally start like a morning day. I start three hours before I tee off. So there&#8217;s some early days, depending on whenever that is. I just don&#8217;t wanna be rushed and I want to have enough time and attention to be able to eat. Like I need to eat,move around. Like I need to move around and just prep, the way it needs to instead of just wait till the last minute and just, throw caution to the wind. so I&#8217;d say, more time than necessarily routine and just build it up. I don&#8217;t have anything, crazy, follow a little bit of macro planning, idea. I used the RP strength guys for a long time as far as helping, when I made some changes in my body and, the way that I ate and just managed intake with food and different things like that. But, on course I just started working with my menace, supplement company [00:52:00] and I use their fuel product a lot and my bars, the stuff that I eat do a little bit granola, a little bit different things. And I try to find whatever bar is local because that&#8217;s at some point man, you just get sick of eating whatever you are and just make sure it just doesn&#8217;t have a bunch of crap in it. And, just some keep munching on, but I think they&#8217;ll fuel old product from a menace. It&#8217;s a carb electrolyte combo. And it is my favorite thing I have and I feel like a dr. A drug pusher on tour, I&#8217;m just literally just handing them out everywhere and everyone&#8217;s and this is great because it&#8217;s very rare to find a carb electrolyte mix that is not just blow you up and, so it, they&#8217;ve done a really good job at develop their product that in the world of golf is very applicable. Cool. Jeff Pelizzaro: I know we had a lot of questions come in about, your fitness journey, your health journey. we did talk a lot about that on the last time you were on the show. So for those of you that were interested in those questions, go back to episode 1 25. Let&#8217;s get, Scott walked us through that. That was awesome. Victoria wants to know, what&#8217;s the worst shot you ever hit in a [00:53:00] pro event? Scott Stallings: Man, I&#8217;ve hit so many bad ones. I topped the ball out of the rough. I did it at Memorial. I did it at Man, probably more than I tend to, man. I have hit some bad ones. I did. I hit the worst shot of the year. This year. I was playing Q P E with my buddy Trey Mullinax, and we were playing with, Nelly and Denny McCarthy and Nelly Short Man was a joke, like her shipping is ridiculous. And Trey and I were Ham and egging it pretty good. and I was like, I just asked Nelly a lot about chipping and pitching and she won&#8217;t puff from off the green. She just chips. But she literally just chips everything. If it doesn&#8217;t go in, it&#8217;s have a chance. So we just asked a little bit about pitching and this and that. I, we in a play with,Maverick Neely and Lexi on Sunday, and we&#8217;re playing the low ball round and we&#8217;re on the 12th hole, which is the part three at Timberon. And I missed it long and right on the green, but I&#8217;m in the fairway. And so her, Nelly and I were [00:54:00] talking about just a little bit of setup pitching, and I work with Tim Gilbertson, for my short game. And man, he&#8217;s helped my chipping so much. But it was one of these shots that Nelly had described and I was like, here we go. I&#8217;m gonna do it. I&#8217;m gonna do right here. The ball did not go. A foot. I literally it was one of those where the ball&#8217;s here and you hit in the ground and the club goes over. Yeah. It literally, and what moved the ball is the earth. There was no contact with the ball with my club. But to say that the very next hole, which is the drivable hole, number 13 at Tiburon, I drove it right in front of the green and literally had the almost exact same shot and I made it for a two. So Nelly helped me out. I didn&#8217;t do so hot on the first one, and then the next one I made it. So she helped me out a bunch. See that? That&#8217;s a Jeff Pelizzaro: win-win right there. You made the rest of us normal. People feel good on your first shot and then you came back. So getting redeemed yourself on the Scott Stallings: second one. Perfect. [00:55:00] Literally we&#8217;re walk, we&#8217;re walking to the next tee and Trey puts some on me. He is that is the worst shot I&#8217;ve ever seen you hit. I was like, that is the worst shot I have hit. And and literally as I&#8217;m taking it back and hitting it as it&#8217;s making the contact with the ground, I&#8217;m laughing because I have just not done well and it was awful. And then you had the gut tr bringing up. Yeah, I mean I was committed to it at that moment and I was like, I&#8217;m figuring this out. Nelly told me this is what she does. I&#8217;m gonna do it, I&#8217;m gonna get in there and then I hooped it and the rest is history. That&#8217;s sick. Jeff Pelizzaro: All right. Eric wants to know if there&#8217;s something you can tell us that&#8217;s behind the scenes in a PGA tour event that most of us wouldn&#8217;t know about, have never seen, heard of something that might happen throughout the week that you guys do or see that none of us do on the Scott Stallings: outside. I would say that everyone is just pretty normal guys. we&#8217;re just like dudes that have a different job than most people. And it is weird [00:56:00] because the job that we have is what most people think about when they&#8217;re at their job. Would that, does that make sense? Absolutely. Like most people think about playing and that&#8217;s my job. So when I&#8217;m not, I don&#8217;t want to do this. And I, so I think that, I do enjoy playing when I&#8217;m off. I like seeing different courses, different things like that. I like some arch architecture and different things like that, but I think it would be surprising the number of guys that don&#8217;t enjoy playing when they don&#8217;t have to. I think that would be a bigger number than people realize. Wow. Yeah. I&#8217;ve Jeff Pelizzaro: never really thought about that. That yeah. Our leisure activity is job. Is my Scott Stallings: job. Yeah. Yeah. I got some friends, I got some friends that I asked me, he&#8217;s let&#8217;s go play. I&#8217;m like, Hey, let&#8217;s go do something else. I was like, one of my closest friends, I was an insurance office and he is man, when are we gonna play? I was like, man, when are we gonna go sell some insurance? And he&#8217;s I understand what you&#8217;re talking about. Jeff Pelizzaro: what is that for you? what is the hobby that you do like kinda look forward to when [00:57:00] you&#8217;re off? Scott Stallings: I like to cook. I like to, obviously I like to work out and I literally like to be on anyone&#8217;s schedule, but my own, like my kids and my family adapt so much to my life as a PGA tour player that when I am, in that mode, it&#8217;s like I&#8217;m not making any plans. Whatever y&#8217;all want to do, I&#8217;m in, I&#8217;ll drive, I&#8217;ll kick, I&#8217;ll pick up, I&#8217;ll carry, I&#8217;ll, whatever that looks like I&#8217;m in. my wife will joke around saying that I sometimes in off weeks is I&#8217;m a lost puppy, because it&#8217;s so like tournament week, it&#8217;s like I&#8217;m in charge. Like I make the plan, I do this, but it&#8217;s like home week. It&#8217;s whatever y&#8217;all need me to do, I&#8217;m ready to do it. Whatever that looks like. So because it&#8217;s so few and far between, I try to make the most of the time that I do have. So that&#8217;s just the best way that I feel like I can get that the most done and be, around with my family as much as I possibly can. That&#8217;s cool. I totally get that. Jeff Pelizzaro: All right, last one. Dave wants to know if you have any Scott Stallings: superstitions. I only use, I use a neon yellow [00:58:00] line on my golf ball, and I only used number ones. I played the wrong ball. I&#8217;m colored blind. and I played the wrong ball on the nationwide tour, and it made, it was like I, I had a black line and the guy had a blue line and I played his ball, so I just figured out a way to not, so that&#8217;s probably it. That&#8217;s probably the only thing that I don&#8217;t know. My caddy would probably tell you I&#8217;d do a bunch of other weird things. I don&#8217;t realize I do, but I play ones. And I use this crazy neon yellow line cause I know that&#8217;s my ball. Jeff Pelizzaro: Are Have you heard of any other guys that have any crazy superstitions out there? Any of your buddies? Oh, Scott Stallings: there&#8217;s a lot, like all over the place. we need to get into the whiskey closet and, have a little bit more time. Talk about the weird things. See out there. Jeff Pelizzaro: I&#8217;ll take a, I&#8217;ll take a rain check on that. I would love to, I&#8217;d love to do that behind the scenes for sure. Alright, man, I can&#8217;t thank you enough for taking the time to be on the show. I do have one favor to ask you and I sent you a little text about [00:59:00] this. we wanna have a little bit of an action item for people to take away from their time with Scott Stallings here. And obviously you&#8217;re known as the fitness guy on, on the tour. What&#8217;s something that our folks can take this week and do, maybe a little workout, maybe a little scout, something that you like to do 20 minute workout or something like that, that we&#8217;re gonna task our crew to do. The week this episode goes out, I&#8217;ll, and I&#8217;ll do it myself. Scott Stallings: All right, so there&#8217;s a hundred, I thought about this when you text me. So there&#8217;s a workout in CrossFit, which is a hundred burpees for time. And basically like it, the fitness goal is that you are gonna try to break seven minutes. that&#8217;s a, like a benchmark. it&#8217;s a time cat, but it&#8217;s also like you need to have some relative idea of fitness if you cannot break this. So I turned it into a different of a workout. as far as you start on the minute and you make it a 10 minute cap. But in the process of, you are going to do E every minute after the [01:00:00] first one. So the first minute you can do as many as you want. that&#8217;s the only thing you&#8217;re doing. And then you are building in every single minute you&#8217;re gonna do five squat, five sit-ups, and you&#8217;re gonna build off of that. So you have to do 10 reps before you can go back to doing the burpees. And your goal is to try to beat it 10 minutes. okay. you think about it from an overall time cap that&#8217;s 10 burpees a minute, but under fatigue to be able to manage that entire time. And you have to do just basically five squat and then, yeah, that, that&#8217;s not an incredible amount of reps, but be able to build it. You can do it anywhere. You don&#8217;t need any equipment. And so that&#8217;s most of the time when people ask me these like little benchmark workouts, it&#8217;s like you had burpees and a little bit of time and something in there if my buddy Ben Bruno sees this, he&#8217;s a LA trainer buddy of mine. I know he hates bur, he hates burpees. So I&#8217;ll also add that in there to bust everything, anything. I do this, I add that in there and I&#8217;ll send it to him. I&#8217;m at work. He thinks they&#8217;re, he thinks they&#8217;re stupid and I know that he hates them and I love that he hates them. So [01:01:00] basically when I&#8217;m around him, I&#8217;ll always hit a couple, just what do you think? This is awesome Jeff Pelizzaro: because I had a feeling there were gonna be a bunch of burpees in here and I know that your buddies with Ben and we&#8217;re gonna tag him on this and make sure he sees this for sure. Scott Stallings: so now I&#8217;ve just determined that anyone asked me something. because he hates high volume, reps. especially if someone has some type of inhabit, like just inability to do something you don&#8217;t want to, whether it&#8217;s low back or, anything like that from where a high volume rep like that could really mess with you and he&#8217;s not wrong. For sure. But in the situation of now, it&#8217;s become like every single time he, we were doing a, we were in a text thread the other day and we were, someone asked about something and he&#8217;s Scott&#8217;s gonna say burpees, but they&#8217;re stupid. And so now I just put &#8217;em in everything and I tag him in all of them. That&#8217;s hilarious. I love it. Jeff Pelizzaro: All right, man, I really appreciate you coming on. Good luck this season. obviously the 18STRONG crew is pulling for you. We wanna see you there at East Lake at the end, and, hopefully we can have [01:02:00] another one of these conversations in the future, maybe with a wi little whiskey next time. Scott Stallings: Absolutely. Just spend on one time of day, man. Sounds good. After the workout. I appreciate it, man. All right, it&#8217;s, see you, Scott. Jeff Pelizzaro: Thanks for joining us this week on the 18th Strong Podcast. If you want any more information, we&#8217;ll have information about the workout. We&#8217;ll have information about Scott Stallings and any other things that we talked about on this episode over on 18STRONG.com. Just look up episode number 347 with Scott Stallings and as far as the homework goes, now I&#8217;m gonna, full disclaimer, I&#8217;m with Ben Bruno. I am not a big Burpees fan, but I didn&#8217;t want to send Scott a message and say, Hey, you gotta limit this exercise or that one, because what I wanted him to do was give us something that he would do himself. And so I&#8217;m gonna join the challenge. I just caution you, be careful with your burpees. It&#8217;s not the greatest exercise for your wrists, for your shoulders, but just be careful. Now, with that being said, we are posing the challenge for you two within one week of [01:03:00] hearing this episode. To do the Scott Stallings 18STRONG. Workout. And so we&#8217;ll have it listed on our social media on Instagram. It&#8217;s the Scott Stallings workout post. You can go there and it&#8217;s got the details laid out. We&#8217;ll also have it in the show notes, but what we&#8217;re gonna ask of you is when you do the workout, leave a comment on that post and tag Scott in it and let us know if you pass or if you failed, if you&#8217;re able to do it in the 10 minutes or even better if you want to take a video of yourself doing the workout or a little snippet of you doing the workout. And then tag 18STRONG and Scott Stalling. And what the heck tag Ben Bruno in these two. I&#8217;m sure Ben will love it and Scott would really love for you to tag Ben in there. So let&#8217;s see how the 18STRONG crew comes through on the Scott Stallings workout. All right. That&#8217;s it for this week. We&#8217;re coming back next week with another great episode. We have another great guest lined up, so it&#8217;s day tuned to our social media and our emails because we are gonna continue this crew and a questioning every now and then when we have a, a guest coming on that we know that you&#8217;re gonna want to ask some questions for. All right. [01:04:00] Train hard, practice mark, and play Better go. Episode Partners: LINKSOUL:&nbsp;For your 20% discount on LINKSOUL gear, go to&nbsp;18strong.com/linksoul&nbsp;or click the logo above. LivPur: For your 15% discount on LivPur products, go to&nbsp;LivPur.com&nbsp;(or click the logo above) and use the code &#8220;18STRONG&#8220;. 1st Phorm: Try any of the 1st Phorm products with FREE SHIPPING, go to 1stphorm.com/18strong.com More Cool Stuff to Check Out: To continue the conversation and ask any questions you may have, head over to the&nbsp;18STRONG Movement group on Facebook. 18STRONG Pro Shop (Get your 18STRONG gear!) 18STRONG Resources (All of the cool stuff we recommend: products, books, golf stuff, etc &#8211; and discount codes for the 18STRONG Crew)

This week our guest is Mike Romatowski, creator of the Mach 3 Speed Training system. Mike and the team at Mach 3 are using very unconventional tools to help thousands of golfers get stronger and faster specifically for golf. The Mach 3 tools were developed over the years after Mike was exposed to the value of using ropes and chains for building strength and speed. Using &#8220;dynamic, oscillating, variable resistance,&#8221; these tools provide &#8220;live&#8221; resistance which forces the golfer to find efficiency and balance in order to move them with speed and force. Along with the concept of &#8220;Speed Out Front&#8221; Mike explains how his golfers are not simply learning to swing &#8220;harder.&#8221; They are learning to swing more efficiently, and effortlessly. And in doing so, they will become FASTER FOREVER. Mike’s Background Michael Romatowski, the creator of the revolutionary Mach 3 Golf Speed Training System, is a multi-certified personal trainer, golf fitness expert, and post-rehab exercise specialist. Mike is certified by the Titleist Performance Institute (TPI) and has attained Level 2 status in both the fitness and medical professional tracks. In addition to TPI, Mike is a Tathata Golf Certified Movement Specialist. Tathata Golf Mike is also certified as a Posture and Alignment Specialist. Posture Therapy offers a means of dealing with pain and joint dysfunction through both passive positions and gentle exercises. Highlights from this Episode Mike explains the concept of &#8220;Speed Out Front&#8221; and how just this one concept will make you faster almost immediately and forever How the Mach 3 tools are different and why they not only build speed, but strength throughout the whole swing Mike explains why most of his golfers don&#8217;t do traditional workouts and how their training with the Mach 3 system has reduced the amount of time most of them spend on the range Why swinging harder is not the answer and why your speed should feel effortless. Find Mike Romatowski and Mach 3 Speed Training: Website Episode Partners: LINKSOUL:&nbsp;For your 20% discount on LINKSOUL gear, go to&nbsp;18strong.com/linksoul&nbsp;or click the logo above. LivPur: For your 15% discount on LivPur products, go to&nbsp;LivPur.com&nbsp;(or click the logo above) and use the code &#8220;18STRONG&#8220;. 1st Phorm: Try any of the 1st Phorm products with FREE SHIPPING, go to 1stphorm.com/18strong.com More Cool Stuff to Check Out: To continue the conversation and ask any questions you may have, head over to the&nbsp;18STRONG Movement group on Facebook. 18STRONG Pro Shop (Get your 18STRONG gear!) 18STRONG Resources (All of the cool stuff we recommend: products, books, golf stuff, etc &#8211; and discount codes for the 18STRONG Crew)

Today I&#8217;m joined by Gabe Caldwell of Chicago Made Training. Gabe is a golf fitness professional out of Chicago, IL. that initially caught our eye because of all of the great content he puts out consistently on Instagram (@GabeCaldwellGolf). In today&#8217;s episode, Gabe helps us break down the difference between training your body to play better golf vs working on the &#8220;skills&#8221; of playing golf. Aside from discussing our games a little bit at the beginning, Gabe breaks down some of the key elements you should be working on to make sure your body is ready to finish your next 18 strong (&#8230;get it ????). From conditioning to mobility to medicine ball drills, we discuss it all. #Iam18STRONG #LIFTyourGame #NoMoreMulligans Gabe’s Background Gabe has over 15+ years in the fitness industry. He has worked with hundreds of clients from high-level athletes to everyone looking to improve their overall health. Gabe specializes in golf performance. As a golfer for the past 30 years, he understands the importance that mobility, posture, and strength training have on driving power off the tee and consistent play. Gabe is a licensed clinical massage therapist and completed his TPI certification in 2017. Highlights from this Episode Gabe discusses what he is personally working on in his game and how he blends his training and practice. We discuss the topics of mobility, speed, power and how to properly train for them Gabe expands on a form of endurance training (HICT) that he uses with his golfers that is a great way to blend strength, speed, and endurance into more &#8220;fun&#8221; workouts. Parting Questions: Favorite Golf Movie? Caddy Shack What is your walk-up song to the first tee-box? Cult of Personality (Living Color) Book Recommendation? Atomic Habits (James Clear) What’s your dream foursome? His buddies&#8230; Andrew, Ryan, &amp; his Dad. If we could fly you to any golf course, where would you want to play?St. Andrews in Scotland. Social media Shoutout @Matsoffgolfs Best piece of golf advice you&#8217;ve ever been given?&#8220;Close the &#8220;f&#8217;ing&#8221; clubface!!!&#8221; Find Gabe Caldwell: Instagram Episode Partners: LINKSOUL:&nbsp;For your 20% discount on LINKSOUL gear, go to&nbsp;18strong.com/linksoul&nbsp;or click the logo above. LivPur: For your 15% discount on LivPur products, go to&nbsp;LivPur.com&nbsp;(or click the logo above) and use the code &#8220;18STRONG&#8220;. 1st Phorm: Try any of the 1st Phorm products with FREE SHIPPING, go to 1stphorm.com/18strong.com More Cool Stuff to Check Out: To continue the conversation and ask any questions you may have, head over to the&nbsp;18STRONG Movement group on Facebook. 18STRONG Pro Shop (Get your 18STRONG gear!) 18STRONG Resources (All of the cool stuff we recommend: products, books, golf stuff, etc &#8211; and discount codes for the 18STRONG Crew)

Today I&#8217;m joined in the studio by my good friend Casey Cox. Casey is a world-class golf instructor (Director of Instruction at Old Warson Country Club), biomechanist, and one of the co-founders of Sports Science Solutions, an institute whose mission is &#8230; To provide world-class assessment and training solutions to help create a more healthy and sustainable next generation of athletes. In today&#8217;s episode, Casey and I take a deep dive into the world of golf instruction through his eyes as a biomechanist that works with not just golfers, but high-level athletes of all sports, and a major emphasis on hockey. #LIFTyourGame #NoMoreMulligans Casey’s Background Co-Founder of the Sports Science Solutions InstituteDirector of Instruction Old Warson Country Club Highlights from this Episode Casey walks us through his experience in the hockey and golf world and how it led him to starting the Sports Science Solutions InstituteHow 3D testing and other forms of assessment play a major role in the way he works with his golfers (and other athletes)shares his analogy of learning the alphabet and how the motor control of the golf swing is much the same&#8230; you have to learn the letters before you can spellHow to make swing changes without the club and why this is the most effective way to make true movement pattern changesHow golf instruction and physical/fitness training can combine properly to produce resultsThe balance between making major changes to your swing and what the &#8220;costs&#8221; are to doing that. Parting Questions: Favorite Golf Movie? Caddy Shack What is your walk-up song to the first tee-box? Welcome to the Jungle Book Recommendation? Golf is Not a Game of Perfect (Bob Rotella) Simplicity (Steven Yellin) What’s your dream foursome? My Dad, Tiger Woods, Arnold Palmer If we could fly you to any golf course, where would you want to play?Augusta National or St. Andrews just before the Open Championship Best piece of golf advice you&#8217;ve ever been given?His high school golf coach took all of his woods and through him in the trunk of his car and said &#8220;you&#8217;re gonna learn to hit your irons first!&#8221; Find Casey Cox &amp; Sport Science Solutions: Website Facebook Episode Partners: LINKSOUL:&nbsp;For your 20% discount on LINKSOUL gear, go to&nbsp;18strong.com/linksoul&nbsp;or click the logo above. LivPur: For your 15% discount on LivPur products, go to&nbsp;LivPur.com&nbsp;(or click the logo above) and use the code &#8220;18STRONG&#8220;. 1st Phorm: Try any of the 1st Phorm products with FREE SHIPPING, go to 1stphorm.com/18strong.com More Cool Stuff to Check Out: To continue the conversation and ask any questions you may have, head over to the&nbsp;18STRONG Movement group on Facebook. 18STRONG Pro Shop (Get your 18STRONG gear!) 18STRONG Resources (All of the cool stuff we recommend: products, books, golf stuff, etc &#8211; and discount codes for the 18STRONG Crew)

It’s likely that you’ve never of this week’s podcast guest, Clint Ober and that’s a shame because it tells me that you likely don’t know about his mission.  Clint is a pioneer in health and performance, but one of the reasons that most of you haven’t heard of him is because he accidentally stumbled into being this pioneer of a health and fitness discovery that most people initially would write off as “a little out there.” In fact, many of the scientists and medical professionals that Clint talked too about this kind of blew him off a little bit initially. Secondly is that Clint is not a salesperson in any way, shape, or form (you’ll find that out in this episode,) and the reason is that his solution to helping you get healthier, helping you reduce pain and improve your performance is COMPLETELY FREE and accessible to every single person on the planet. Clint is the foremost expert and the face of the “Earthing” movement. If you haven’t heard of “Earthing” or “Grounding”, it’s the concept and phenomenon that by making bodily contact with the earth’s surface and its natural electric charge. So, think of the earth like a big battery: just like we ground every outlet and wire going into our house, when you touch your body to the earth’s natural electric charge it helps to stabilize our physiology by reducing pain, inflammation, improve blood flow, and improve your quality of sleep. Clint is on a mission to spread this solution to as many people on the planet as possible!  I’m honored to have him on the show and for 18STRONG to play a small part in getting Clint’s message out to the golf and fitness world. #LIFTyourGame #NoMoreMulligans Clint Ober’s Background Clint grew up on a farm in Montana where daily life existed in balance with Mother Nature. His childhood days were spent chasing cows, baling hay, and walking the long rows of beets and beans pulling weeds while barefoot. Clinton Ober is CEO of EarthFX Inc., a research and development company located in Palm Springs. He first learned of grounding when marketing and installing Cable TV systems in Billings, Montana in the early 1960s. A decade later, he formed Telecrafter Corporation and built it into the largest provider of cable installation services in the United States. This company specialized in the proper grounding of cable installations for safety and signal stability. In the 1980s, he turned his attention to the developing computer industry and partnered with McGraw-Hill to distribute live digital news services, via cable, to PCs.Following a health challenge in 1995, he retired and embarked on a personal journey looking for a higher purpose in life.Over the past eighteen years, he has supported a host of research studies that collectively demonstrate that grounding reduces inflammation and promotes normal functioning of all body systems. Highlights from this Episode Clint starts out with the basic definition of earthing and grounding as well as his story that has led him to be this pioneer in a new methodologyHow almost all health ailments come from inflammation or are a reaction to inflammation in the body and grounding and earthing’s effect on inflammation on the cellular levelHe tells a story about the benefits that he had seen from grounding a buddy’s golf shoes including range of motion, more power and flexibility from reduced inflammation and pain The questions that he typically gets in regards to grounding and the basic rules of thumb to getting started with grounding today. Parting Questions: Favorite Golf Movie? Caddy Shack What is your walk-up song to the first tee-box? Great Balls of Fire by Jerry Lee Lewis Favorite Book? Joseph Campbell’s “Hero with a thousand faces” What’s your dream foursome?Neil Armstrong, Ted Barnett, and you (Jeff)What has you most excited about your work coming up?Educating the world and grounding as many people as possible Follow Clint Ober: Website Facebook Instagram Twitter Episode Partners: LINKSOUL:&nbsp;For your 20% discount on LINKSOUL gear, go to&nbsp;18strong.com/linksoul&nbsp;or click the logo above. LivPur: For your 15% discount on LivPur products, go to&nbsp;LivPur.com&nbsp;(or click the logo above) and use the code &#8220;18STRONG&#8220;. 1st Phorm: Try any of the 1st Phorm products with FREE SHIPPING, go to 1stphorm.com/18strong.com More Cool Stuff to Check Out: To continue the conversation and ask any questions you may have, head over to the&nbsp;18STRONG Movement group on Facebook. 18STRONG Pro Shop (Get your 18STRONG gear!) 18STRONG Resources (All of the cool stuff we recommend: products, books, golf stuff, etc &#8211; and discount codes for the 18STRONG Crew)

Josh Gregory is a short game and performance coach to some of the greatest players on the PGA tour. His most notable client right now is Will Zalatoris but he works with a stable of golfers on the Tour including a friend of 18STRONG, Adam Long. When Josh was coaching collegiately he won 2 national championships with a young Patrick Reed and he was also the coach that recruited Bryson DeChambeau to SMU. In our chat Josh goes really deep on his philosophies, what it’s like to be a coach not just an instructor, and how he really works on individualized programs and what he calls “blueprints” for his players based on their DNA as a player. We touch on what he sees us non-PGA golfers doing wrong and some simple fixes we can implement into our game and the fact that everything boils down to having a plan you can attack and work hard at and doing those things that will get you closer to your goals (sounds familiar here at 18STRONG #LIFTyourGame #NoMoreMulligans Josh Gregory’s Background Played collegiately at SMUWon 2 national championships as a coach at Augusta State where he worked with Patrick ReedRecruited and coached Bryson DeChambaeu at SMUCurrent short game and performance coach on the PGA Tour (notable clients include Will Zalatoris, Adam Long, Mackenzie Hughes, Henrik Norlander, and more) Highlights from this Episode How his college and golf experience affected how he coaches his golfers now and why he tells his players they have to believe they are twice as good as they really areHow he keeps his players from deflating and giving up when they are putting in the work but not seeing the results they want and how he feels he is most needed as a coach when his golfers are at their best rather than at their worst.How he differentiates his players on what makes them tick and tailors his coaching to the DNA of his individual golfers. He also dives into his past at SMU with Bryson and what brought them together.His thoughts on LIV golf vs PGA golf and whether the golfers that are making a ton of money at LIV golf are going to stop trying as hard because of the large paychecks.Who he thinks is at the top of the game in terms of the short game like chipping and putting like Patrick Reed. Parting Questions: Favorite Golf Movie? Caddy Shack What is your walk-up song to the first tee-box? Signs by Tesla Book Recommendation? A Good Walk Spoiled by John Feinstien What’s your dream foursome? My dad, Ben Hogan and Moe Norman If we could fly you to any golf course, where would you want to play?Pebble Beach Best piece of golf advice?When something is wrong and it needs to be fixed, you better say It and you better say it with conviction Follow Josh Gregory: Twitter Episode Partners: LINKSOUL:&nbsp;For your 20% discount on LINKSOUL gear, go to&nbsp;18strong.com/linksoul&nbsp;or click the logo above. LivPur: For your 15% discount on LivPur products, go to&nbsp;LivPur.com&nbsp;(or click the logo above) and use the code &#8220;18STRONG&#8220;. 1st Phorm: Try any of the 1st Phorm products with FREE SHIPPING, go to 1stphorm.com/18strong.com More Cool Stuff to Check Out: To continue the conversation and ask any questions you may have, head over to the&nbsp;18STRONG Movement group on Facebook. 18STRONG Pro Shop (Get your 18STRONG gear!) 18STRONG Resources (All of the cool stuff we recommend: products, books, golf stuff, etc &#8211; and discount codes for the 18STRONG Crew)

If you recognize the name Dylan Meyer that’s because he was at the top of the golf world in 2016-2018 when he was playing golf for the University of Illinois under Mike Small, one of the top collegiate programs in all of the country. At one point he was ranked at #1 Amateur Golfer in the World which is just a crazy, incredible feat in and of itself. He won several tournaments including the Western Amateur and the 3M Augusta Invitational twice (2017 &amp; 2018). After that, his career was projected to go lights out crazy on the PGA tour. He played in the US Open (and made the cut), but as Dylan will tell you in this episode, his career did not continue on the same trajectory over the next couple of years and he finds himself now working his way back towards getting to the top of the game. Dylan was awesome in this episode letting us go on a deep dive into where he has been, what his mindset was back in 2016-2018, and how it shifted over the next couple of years when he wasn’t playing his highest level of golf. He shares what his challenges were back then and what he has done to start to change his attitude toward the future. A conversation with Coach Small helped him refocus physically, and mentally and he has begun to fall in love with the process of working hard to get better. This conversation is a great example of an 18STRONG golfer. When he wasn&#8217;t getting the results he wanted, he realized that he needed to get back to the basics and put in the work that will get him back on top. Our CREW is rooting for Dylan. #LIFTyourGame #NoMoreMulligans Dylan Meyer’s Background Dylan Meyer is an American professional golfer from Evansville, Indiana. He attended the University of Illinois before turning professional in 2018. As an amateur, he won the Western Amateur and is a two-time winner of the 3M Augusta Invitational. He made his professional debut at the 2018 U.S. Open.Meyer began golfing at the age of 5 and would regularly practice with his father, Darren Meyer. He played baseball, basketball, and golf when he was younger, giving up the former two in favor of golf by the time he was 10. He attended Evansville Central High School before playing golf at the University of Illinois.He won the 3M Augusta Invitational in 2017, earning a sponsor exemption to the 2018 Valspar Championship. He played in the Valspar Championship as an amateur, making the cut and finishing at 74th. This was his third professional tournament played as an amateur, previously finished T-63 at the 2017 Lincoln Land Charity Championship on the Web.com Tour and missing the cut at the 2017 John Deere Classic. His final win as an amateur came in 2018 when he defended his title at the 3M Augusta Invitational.  Overall, Meyer won six college tournaments.Meyer began his professional career at the 2018 U.S. Open where he made the cut and finished 20th overall. During the 2018–19 season, he played in five events on the PGA Tour, with his best finish tied for 7th at the Sanderson Farms Championship and also played on the Korn Ferry Tour. Highlights from this Episode Dylan kicks off the episode by talking about his most recent event and his history with golf from a promising start to having to go back to the drawing board on rebuilding his game. He also talks about the big takeaways he got from reconnecting with his college coach Coach Small that he is utilizing in his game and mentality around golf nowWhat rebuilding confidence in the game looks like from a boots-on-the-ground perspective of daily goals and activities to bounce back after hitting a slump. Dylan also talks about what fitness and mental goals he has set out for himself and what achievements he has already seen in his game since starting to put the work in.We hear a lot about bulking up for our golf game recently so Dylan talks about what that process looked like for him, diet and exercise for bulking in the right ways, and how that has correlated to his swing speed as well.He touches on what practice looks like for him and his habit of not making Trackman happy and how he avoids getting caught up in the numbers and variables by trying to zero out his trackman data instead of just focusing on what the information means for his swing and focusing on what is in front of him. Parting Questions: Favorite Golf Movie? Happy Gilmore What is your walk-up song to the first tee-box? Any Drake Song Favorite Book? Golf and the spirit by Scott Peck What’s your dream foursome? Tiger, JFK, and Trump If we could fly you to any golf course, where would you want to play?Erin Hills Follow Dylan Meyer: Twitter Instagram Episode Partners: LINKSOUL:&nbsp;For your 20% discount on LINKSOUL gear, go to&nbsp;18strong.com/linksoul&nbsp;or click the logo above. LivPur: For your 15% discount on LivPur products, go to&nbsp;LivPur.com&nbsp;(or click the logo above) and use the code &#8220;18STRONG&#8220;. Brain.fm: For your Free Trial and 20% discount on the Brain.fm App, go to&nbsp;Brain.fm/18STRONG&nbsp;(or click the logo above) and use the code &#8220;18STRONG&#8221;. 1st Phorm: Try any of the 1st Phorm products with FREE SHIPPING, go to 1stphorm.com/18strong.com More Cool Stuff to Check Out: To continue the conversation and ask any questions you may have, head over to the&nbsp;18STRONG Movement group on Facebook. 18STRONG Pro Shop (Get your 18STRONG gear!) 18STRONG Resources (All of the cool stuff we recommend: products, books, golf stuff, etc &#8211; and discount codes for the 18STRONG Crew)

Mike Boyle is not only one of the top strength and conditioning coaches in the world, but a pioneer in the field. Every coach that is listening to this most likely recognizes Mike’s name. You’ve probably heard Mike speak or read Mike’s stuff, but I want to make it clear: this episode is also for the golfers out there that are NOT coaches, fitness instructors or medical professionals because Mike works with not only super high-level athletes like Olympians, professional athletes from baseball to hockey, but also works with the general public in his facility in Massachusetts. What I love about his facility and what they do is they treat everyone like an athlete so you might be a regular &#8220;Everyday Golfer&#8221; in there but you are training alongside professional athletes and you get to see what they are doing. Ultimately that environment allows a glimpse into the world of hard work and performance, which inspires everyone to get more out of themselves. And really, that’s what we try to do here at 18STRONG. The average golfer will get as much out of this episode as the coaches do and for the coaches out there. You’re going to hear how Mike coaches, his philosophy, and how he doesn’t steer that differently for different athletes. We all tend to get very caught up in the mindset that our sport is very specific, but in the long run, the human body is all the same. There are basic ways to get stronger, faster, and more powerful. So we discuss a lot of these different principles and what differentiates the golfer from these other athletes but also what things are the same and so what you can implement into your own personal routine or what you can use with your clients if you’re a coach. Highlights from this Episode His first experience working with golfers and how he unintentionally blazed the trail for powerful golfers.How his definition of Functional Training is different than what you might imagine or see online from simple exercises you don’t need fancy equipment to get stronger for any sport.Why he doesn’t tailor his training and system to specific sports like golf and believes that a wholesome approach to strength benefits not only any sport you want to play but your wellbeing. He also talks about the converse and how at a certain point there might be minute differences in how he looks at athletes based on injury patterns and avoiding themHow he is constantly questioning how things are done and how he does things to the point of having to admit when he has been wrong in the past.How trying to tailor exercises to mimic the sport can be counterintuitive to the outcomes you want to see in an individual and the importance of keeping it simple and to the core principles of what you want to work onHe talks about the balance of strength vs power for the sport of golf and what we should be doing to focus on power development for recreational golf.He touches on trends he has seen lately that he thinks are fads and won’t last like knees over toes split squats. He also talks about core training; what he sees people doing incorrectly and what we really should be focusing on in a rotary sport. Follow Mike Boyle: Website Facebook Instagram Episode Partners: LINKSOUL:&nbsp;For your 20% discount on LINKSOUL gear, go to&nbsp;18strong.com/linksoul&nbsp;or click the logo above. LivPur: For your 15% discount on LivPur products, go to&nbsp;LivPur.com&nbsp;(or click the logo above) and use the code &#8220;18STRONG&#8220;. Brain.fm: For your Free Trial and 20% discount on the Brain.fm App, go to&nbsp;Brain.fm/18STRONG&nbsp;(or click the logo above) and use the code &#8220;18STRONG&#8221;. 1st Phorm: Try any of the 1st Phorm products with FREE SHIPPING, go to 1stphorm.com/18strong.com More Cool Stuff to Check Out: To continue the conversation and ask any questions you may have, head over to the&nbsp;18STRONG Movement group on Facebook. 18STRONG Pro Shop (Get your 18STRONG gear!) 18STRONG Resources (All of the cool stuff we recommend: products, books, golf stuff, etc &#8211; and discount codes for the 18STRONG Crew)

Today I am especially excited to announce that we are bringing the podcast back with an awesome interview with PGA winner Adam Long about the 2021-22 season, the LIV Golf / the PGA Tour situation, and all of the drama that has fallen on the golf universe. When it comes to LIV, Adam puts it best when he says “it’s the thing that we&#8217;re all tired of talking about, but at the same time we can&#8217;t stop talking about it.” He shares his thoughts on the ramifications of the situation and what it’s been like to be inside the ropes as a tour player. He discusses what all of this looks like for him and other tour players, as well as ultimately if LIV is something good or bad for golf as a whole. We also talk about what his career has been like the last couple years, what his upcoming goals are, and other exciting news he has coming up including having his second child pretty soon here. Highlights from this Episode His perspective on the LIV golf vs PGA tour happenings and what he sees for the future of the game moving forward. He talks pros and cons as well as general tension with the gameChanges that the PGA tour is making that are for the benefit of tour players like fully exempt members getting $500,000, a stipend for others to cover expenses, and more events.What his game is looking like these days, what he is working on and what his off-season looks like. He also talks about changes he has noticed in his golf game in the last couple of years like a better understanding of his game and the ability to adjust on the flyWhat he does to internally push himself after the last years on the tour as well as keep a cool head at the tee. Follow Adam Long: Instagram Twitter Episode Partners: LINKSOUL:&nbsp;For your 20% discount on LINKSOUL gear, go to&nbsp;18strong.com/linksoul&nbsp;or click the logo above. LivPur: For your 15% discount on LivPur products, go to&nbsp;LivPur.com&nbsp;(or click the logo above) and use the code &#8220;18STRONG&#8221;. Brain.fm: For your Free Trial and 20% discount on the Brain.fm App, go to Brain.fm/18STRONG (or click the logo above) and use the code &#8220;18STRONG&#8221;. 1st Phorm: Try any of the 1st Phorm products with FREE SHIPPING, go to 1stphorm.com/18strong.com More Cool Stuff to Check Out: To continue the conversation and ask any questions you may have, head over to the&nbsp;18STRONG Movement group on Facebook. 18STRONG Pro Shop (Get your 18STRONG gear!) 18STRONG Resources (All of the cool stuff we recommend: products, books, golf stuff, etc &#8211; and discount codes for the 18STRONG Crew)

If you’ve been listening to the pod recently you’ll notice we’ve been doing more Q&amp;A style with the 18strong crew, however, this episode is a little twist on the format where I’ll be giving more of a presentation. Think less Q’s and more A’s because we wanted to provide a bit of a template for our nutrition principles here at 18Strong. The 18STRONG Diet Stack is not necessarily a “this is what everyone should do” but this is what we’ve found has worked really well for our crew. It’s a bit of a step-by-step program where we label out from 0-10 the different levels that you can stack on each other in order to maximize your effectiveness when you are really trying to dial in your nutrition. We like to use the phrase “Dialing it in” because you can start at level 0 and go all the way up 10 or dial it back as needed. One of the biggest mistakes that many of us make is trying to out-train a bad diet and we know that doesn’t work. If you’re looking to make big changes to your fitness level and especially lose fat, nutrition is the first place to start and that’s what this episode is all about. Highlights from this Episode I explain the different levels to the nutrition stack and how you can build up from 0 or implement this into your current nutrition program as well as how to approach this from an 80/20 or 90/10 perspective instead of trying to achieve perfectionThe importance of starting your day with water (ideally lemon water) and drinking the appropriate amount of water for your body weightCutting out drinking empty calories and highly sugared drinks like juices, sodas, and sports/energy drinks.Including protein at every meal because the majority of individuals do not get enough protein on a daily basisEating vegetables at every single meal and finding vegetables you like to eatSo long snacks, hello 2-3 meals a day! Even increasing those meals to 4-5 if you are really trying to increase your protein intake but the main point is to cut out snacking in between meals.Minimize starchy carbs: this helps me lean out the quickest by eliminating stuff like excessive bread, chips, crackers, pastas, etc.Get rid of processed foods; things that come in boxes and bags and circulate the outside of the grocery storeCounting calories: when we go to a fast food restaurant it can be extremely easy to get our daily caloric intake in one meal, however when you reach this final level while taking everything above into account it can start to be a challenge hitting your calories so counting calories can help you see what 1000-2000 calories looks like in portion sizes and in your mealsHoly Macros: Proteins > Fats > Carbs. At this point you are completely dialed in to what is going into your body and you are definitely seeing the results of your hard work.What are the best leg strengthening exercises for supporting all the twisting demands on the knee from the golf swing?With the cost of food going up what do you recommend as the most bang for your buck as far as protein and veggies? Links from this Episode: Download the 18STRONG Diet STACK Episode Sponsors: LINKSOUL:&nbsp;For your 20% discount on LINKSOUL gear, go to&nbsp;18strong.com/linksoul&nbsp;or click the logo above. LivPur: For your 15% discount on LivPur products, go to&nbsp;LivPur.com&nbsp;(or click the logo above) and use the code &#8220;18STRONG&#8221;. Brain.fm: For your Free Trial and 20% discount on the Brain.fm App, go to&nbsp;Brain.fm/18STRONG&nbsp;(or click the logo above) and use the code &#8220;18STRONG&#8221;. More Cool Stuff to Check Out: To continue the conversation and ask any questions you may have, head over to the&nbsp;18STRONG Movement group on Facebook. 18STRONG Pro Shop (Get your 18STRONG gear!) 18STRONG Resources (All of the cool stuff we recommend: products, books, golf stuff, etc &#8211; and discount codes for the 18STRONG Crew)

Welcome back for another Q&amp;A style episode with my buddy Chris Finn from Par4Success on talking and answering questions all about speed. He and his team at Par4Success have done several in-house research projects regarding speed, training, and what they are finding to be the most effective ways to achieve speed as a golfer. We talk about Overspeed training, different styles of Strength and conditioning surrounding speed and we answer questions like can Overspeed training substitute your S&amp;C program and how and when to implement an Overspeed program. It was pretty fascinating to talk to Chris about his results and really how they have been able to simplify things for their players and ultimately you because you will be able to take the protocol Chris talks about with very little equipment and be able to maximize your efforts off the course to produce more results on the course. Highlights from this Episode The biggest things and misconceptions that opened his eyes as he started studying speed as it pertains to golf.Can you substitute Overspeed training with your strength and conditioning program?What Overspeed training is and what Chris looked into when researching this with golf and through other sportsWhy is it important to rest for longer periods between sets when Overspeed training?Would you recommend 10 swings per day 3x a week or what is the general recommendation on how often to train?What kind of Overspeed training should I be doing during the season?What are your pre-requisites for the mobility and stability aspects of speed at your facility?How does Chris employ core strength and what benefits does it have for the average golfer?What are the simplest things that the average golfer can implement into their program to build up some speed and power? Links from this Episode: Par4success.com At Home Assessment Instagram Episode Sponsors: LINKSOUL:&nbsp;For your 20% discount on LINKSOUL gear, go to&nbsp;18strong.com/linksoul&nbsp;or click the logo above. LivPur: For your 15% discount on LivPur products, go to&nbsp;LivPur.com&nbsp;(or click the logo above) and use the code &#8220;18STRONG&#8221;. Brain.fm: For your Free Trial and 20% discount on the Brain.fm App, go to&nbsp;Brain.fm/18STRONG&nbsp;(or click the logo above) and use the code &#8220;18STRONG&#8221;. More Cool Stuff to Check Out: To continue the conversation and ask any questions you may have, head over to the&nbsp;18STRONG Movement group on Facebook. 18STRONG Pro Shop (Get your 18STRONG gear!) 18STRONG Resources (All of the cool stuff we recommend: products, books, golf stuff, etc &#8211; and discount codes for the 18STRONG Crew)

We are changing it up this week; rather than having an interview with a top golf pro, we are publishing one of our LIVE weekly Q&amp;A sessions with the 18STRONG Crew. These are questions that I’m sure many of you are wondering as well so we brought our buddy Tony Soaib, one of the worlds top Strength/Conditioning and Nutritional coaches. Tony who is a steel trap of information when it comes to fitness, performance and nutrition, In this call, Tony helps us answer questions from the Crew. Highlights from this Episode What should I be looking for when looking for a protein to supplement me post-workout?I’ve heard most people’s bodies can only process 30-40g of protein in a sitting, so to get to 180-190g a day you’ll need multiple protein-rich meals. Any truth to that?What are your thoughts on using a Magnesium supplement to help with muscle recovery and helping with sleep and any other suggestions on reducing muscle soreness from workouts and activity?My high protein diet has caused some irregularity in my trips to the bathroom, will this have long-term effects on my colon or kidneys?What are the effects of cycling carbs and proteins when it comes to caloric intake?I’m suffering from pain in my upper back, would you suggest icing it and keeping my training going, seeing an osteopath, or resting?Why do workouts change based on your goal (Fat loss = more reps, bulking heavier but fewer reps, etc.)What is Tony’s program for your average golfer that is 10-15 lbs overweight and is looking for more mobility? Episode Sponsors: LINKSOUL:&nbsp;For your 20% discount on LINKSOUL gear, go to&nbsp;18strong.com/linksoul&nbsp;or click the logo above. LivPur: For your 15% discount on LivPur products, go to&nbsp;LivPur.com&nbsp;(or click the logo above) and use the code &#8220;18STRONG&#8221;. Brain.fm: For your Free Trial and 20% discount on the Brain.fm App, go to&nbsp;Brain.fm/18STRONG&nbsp;(or click the logo above) and use the code &#8220;18STRONG&#8221;. More Cool Stuff to Check Out: To continue the conversation and ask any questions you may have, head over to the&nbsp;18STRONG Movement group on Facebook. 18STRONG Pro Shop (Get your 18STRONG gear!) 18STRONG Resources (All of the cool stuff we recommend: products, books, golf stuff, etc &#8211; and discount codes for the 18STRONG Crew)

In this episode, Jeff breaks down the details of The 40-Day FORGE, a physical and mental program unlike any other in the world of golf that is based on the concepts of building strength through consistent challenges and commitments to yourself. For all of the specific details and resources to start the 40-Day FORGE, click here. Partners: LINKSOUL:&nbsp;For your 20% discount on LINKSOUL gear, go to&nbsp;18strong.com/linksoul&nbsp;or click the logo above. LivPur: For your 15% discount on LivPur products, go to&nbsp;LivPur.com&nbsp;(or click the logo above) and use the code &#8220;18STRONG&#8221;. Brain.fm: For your Free Trial and 20% discount on the Brain.fm App, go to&nbsp;Brain.fm/18STRONG&nbsp;(or click the logo above) and use the code &#8220;18STRONG&#8221;. More Cool Stuff to Check Out: To continue the conversation and ask any questions you may have, head over to the&nbsp;18STRONG Movement group on Facebook. 18STRONG Pro Shop (Get your 18STRONG gear!) 18STRONG Resources (All of the cool stuff we recommend: products, books, golf stuff, etc &#8211; and discount codes for the 18STRONG Crew)

Pete Popovich is an instructor with a very thorough background in the game of golf. Pete played at a very high level and at the age of 17 started teaching his peers. Seeing his ability to not just play the game, but also a cunning ability to teach, he started to get more of a following which led him to learn everything he could about all aspects of the game. Pete didn&#8217;t only dig into the traditional instructional resources, he also dove into physiology, neurology, different learning styles, in order to not only teach his students how to swing a club, but how to approach performance from all angles. Our conversation goes in many different as Pete dives into some of the most important things that golfers aren’t doing that could be making them better when it comes to practice and training. When do the physical/fitness training and the skills training intersect, and when should they be separate? How do you blend the two and what does that look like in a training regimen? Are there real fundamentals to the golf swing? Are they the same for everyone? Pete helps explain all that and much more . . . Pete Popovich’s Background Teacher, writer, researcher are but a few words used to describe Pete and his unique ability to improve the games of all his students, regardless of skill level. This is illustrated in the teaching theory he wrote titled &#8216;The Golf Paradigm&#8217;.The Golf Paradigm is a philosophy. A philosophy that encompasses improvement in a golfers game based on improving the whole by addressing each of the parts. Each part is an entity to itself including; mechanics, fitting, mental, fitness, and integration.Pete is also the host of the “Golf 360” podcast where he interviews world-renowned coaches, genius club fitters, groundbreaking health professionals, and fantastic mental coaches to improve your game and life. Highlights from this Episode How teaching is in his DNA and how teaching from such a young age has helped to advance his game and help in sparking his passion for learning as much as possible.The pros and cons of having so much information on our golf game and golf swing at the tips of our fingers on the range and how if not utilized and analyzed properly it can hinder our mental game.His fascination with the body and how that drove him to dive into research around physiology and neurology to better understand his own mental and physical game, but also to help others with theirs. He also talks about his history with professional golf and Q school, what he learned in the process, and how it lead him to where he is today.His advice to players that have been going out and hitting balls but not seeing any qualitative improvement but want to see similar gains to doing an 8-12 week program in the gym using traditional training methods.The impetus of what started his podcast Golf 360, his mission with the podcast, and how it ties back to his philosophy of the Golf Paradigm. He also touches on how he has grown as a teacher and aspects or methods he used to teach that he has learned from and wouldn’t teach today.Whether or not the “golf fundamentals” are across the board for every golfer or change on a player-by-player basis and whether the gap is widening between the average golfer and the PGA player. Parting Questions Favorite Golf Movie? Caddy Shack What is your walk-up song to the first tee-box? Thunderstruck by ACDC Favorite Book? Man’s Search for Meaning by Victor Frankl&nbsp; What’s your dream foursome?My Brother, my dad, and Jesus Christ If we could fly you to any golf course, where would you want to play?PasatiempoBest piece of golf advice?Take your shot at making the PGA tour happen for you What habit has helped you achieve success?Going to bed as close to 10 pm as possible every night Where to find Pete Popovich: Website Facebook Instagram Twitter Youtube Episode Sponsors: LINKSOUL:&nbsp;For your 20% discount on LINKSOUL gear, go to&nbsp;18strong.com/linksoul&nbsp;or click the logo above. LivPur: For your 15% discount on LivPur products, go to&nbsp;LivPur.com&nbsp;(or click the logo above) and use the code &#8220;18STRONG&#8221;. Brain.fm: For your Free Trial and 20% discount on the Brain.fm App, go to&nbsp;Brain.fm/18STRONG&nbsp;(or click the logo above) and use the code &#8220;18STRONG&#8221;. More Cool Stuff to Check Out: To continue the conversation and ask any questions you may have, head over to the&nbsp;18STRONG Movement group on Facebook. 18STRONG Pro Shop (Get your 18STRONG gear!) 18STRONG Resources (All of the cool stuff we recommend: products, books, golf stuff, etc &#8211; and discount codes for the 18STRONG Crew)

We are excited to bring you a legend in the world of Wedge-Making this week. Terry Koehler, Founder of Edison Wedges is known in the golf circles as &#8220;The Wedge Guy,&#8221; and rightfully so. Terry has over 40 years in the golf industry with over 20 years of experience specifically designing and making wedges with his own hands. Prior to founding Edison Golf, he was the CEO of the Ben Hogan Golf Equipment Company where he brought that brand back to life over the last several years. He is also best known for SCOR a boutique wedge brand he founded in 2011 which gained a bit of a cult following because it took an innovative approach to wedge design. In today&#8217;s episode, Terry basically gives us a masterclass on how to properly use our wedges and why wedges have been underestimated when it comes to the recreational golfer. We talk about things like bounce, Terry&#8217;s patented Koehler Sole (which utilizes a high and low bounce on the same club), the basic physics when it comes to our short game and using our wedges, what the forging process actually looks like when building a club, and what getting fitted for a wedge looks like. Terry Koehler’s Background Edison Golf was founded by Terry Koehler, better known as “The Wedge Guy” in golf circles. Koehler has spent 40 years in the golf industry and more than 30 years designing wedges. Prior to launching Edison Golf, Koehler was the CEO of the Ben Hogan Golf Equipment Company, where he led the team that brought the vaunted brand back to the golf equipment industry. Koehler may be best known for SCOR®, a boutique wedge brand he founded in 2011 that generated a cult following for its innovative approach to wedge design. Koehler’s career also includes the founding of wedge brands Reid Lockhart® and EIDOLON®.  Highlights from this Episode Terry explains how design-wise wedges are the hardest clubs to hit and get very skilled with and how the Edison wedges re-defined and blazed the way for the term game-improvement wedgeThe biggest mistakes we are making with our wedges like being too short and too high and why we tend to change all clubs out very frequently but hold onto wedges for a lot longer.The difference a forged club has over a cheaper cast-mold club and how it affects our gameThe patented sole of his wedge clubs and what differences you are going to see with Edison wedges vs. the wedges you have in your bag.How he sees the future of golf and golf technology with the way PGA tour players are hitting the ball harder and farther and making some of these courses obsolete for tour play. Parting Questions Favorite Golf Movie? Caddy Shack What is your walk-up song to the first tee-box? How you Like Me now?! By Toby Keith Favorite Book? Ben Hogan’s “The 5 Lessons in the Modern Fundamentals of Golf” What’s your dream foursome? My dad, my late brother, and Ben Hogan If we could fly you to any golf course, where would you want to play?ShinnecockBest piece of golf advice?There’s nothing wrong with your game that 5,000 practice balls won’t fix Where to find Terry Koehler: Website Facebook Instagram Episode Sponsors: LINKSOUL:&nbsp;For your 20% discount on LINKSOUL gear, go to&nbsp;18strong.com/linksoul&nbsp;or click the logo above. LivPur: For your 15% discount on LivPur products, go to&nbsp;LivPur.com&nbsp;(or click the logo above) and use the code &#8220;18STRONG&#8221;. Brain.fm: For your Free Trial and 20% discount on the Brain.fm App, go to&nbsp;Brain.fm/18STRONG&nbsp;(or click the logo above) and use the code &#8220;18STRONG&#8221;. More Cool Stuff to Check Out: To continue the conversation and ask any questions you may have, head over to the&nbsp;18STRONG Movement group on Facebook. 18STRONG Pro Shop (Get your 18STRONG gear!) 18STRONG Resources (All of the cool stuff we recommend: products, books, golf stuff, etc &#8211; and discount codes for the 18STRONG Crew)

Today’s episode is phenomenal in standing with our mission here at 18Strong to help you get strong on and off the course. We have Ben Newman, world-renowned performance coach who has worked with business execs and sales organizations all over the world, as well as professional athletes from the NFL, PGA, NBA, MLB, UFC and NCAA. Ben is also the mental conditioning coach for the 18-time national champions Alabama Football Team. Ben is a multiple time best-selling author and we are going to talk about his recently released book Uncommon Leadership: 11 Ways the Greatest Leaders Lead. Ben is an exciting personality and is known for his energy and his storytelling, but he is especially known for his willingness to also do the work himself. You’re going to hear in this episode what Ben does personally that just exudes the entire mantra of doing the work and reaping the rewards. In today’s episode, Ben dives into the work he does with his athletes, business executives, and sales associations, including his concept of creating your own Prize-Fighter Day. Ben is adamant about empowering individuals to set themselves up to make sure they are winning every single day. He does this through the concepts of standards over feelings, trusting the process, and understanding why each and every one of us needs to consider ourselves leaders, no matter who or what we are. Ben Newman’s Background Ben Newman is a highly regarded Performance Coach, International Speaker and Best-Selling Author, whose clients include Fortune 500 companies around the world, business executives, sales organizations and professional athletes in the NFL, PGA, NBA, MLB, UFC and NCAA.Ben serves as a Mental Conditioning Coach for the 18-time National Champion Alabama Crimson Tide football team and has worked with players from the last 3 Super Bowl Champion teams. He was recently selected by Influencive.com as one of the TOP 10 Motivators in Sports and Real Leaders Magazine selected him as one of their 2019 and 2020 TOP 50 Speakers in the World.In 2021 Ben’s highly anticipated new book UNCOMMON LEADERSHIP will be released and through the adversities of Covid-19. The BNC Speakers group and BNC Coaching group have had a tremendous impact on organizations finding alternative ways to drive growth.His clients have included: Microsoft, United States Army, Anheuser-Busch InBev, Quicken Loans, Miami Dolphins, MARS Snackfoods, Kansas State Football, St. Louis Cardinals, North Dakota State Bison Football, Northwestern Mutual, AFA Singapore, Mass Financial Group, Wells Fargo Advisors, Great West Life Canada, Boston Medical Center, Boys &amp; Girls Club of America, St. Croix, Missouri Tigers Basketball, New York Life, The University of Iowa and The Minnesota Vikings…as well as thousands of executives, entrepreneurs, athletes and sales teams from around the globe.Ben’s authentic, powerful, and engaging storytelling has become internationally recognized and he has shared the stage with Jerry Rice, Ray Lewis, Tony Dungy, Colin Powell, Brian Tracy, Ken Blanchard, Jon Gordon, Dr. Jason Selk, Floyd Little, Aeneas Williams, Walt Jocketty and other leaders and legends in the world.Ben lives in his hometown of St. Louis, Missouri with the true measure of his success, his wife, Ami, and their children, J. Isaac and Kennedy Rose. Highlights from this Episode Ben often says “Never underestimate your ability to be a leader,” he dives into how we all have an opportunity to be an example of a leader to others and to ourselves.How we manage our negative self-talk and doubt and the processes, like having a&nbsp; “prize-fighter day,” that he has developed to focus on the next objective and not the worries of what the outcomes may be.He describes what he means when he refers to “the burn” and the step we must take before we find our why, our passion, and set our goals. He also touches on how imperative it is to put in the work in the unseen hours when no one is looking and you are doing for yourself.Specific messages he has for golfers like not letting a lack of birdies to prevent future birdies and being locked into the moment one swing at a time. He also talks about utilizing the Navy Seal Box Breathing technique to remain calm and focused on those high pressure swingsHe talks about his new book Uncommon Leadership: 11 Ways the Greatest Leaders Lead and where to find his other resources .How to choose standards over feelings: don’t let your emotions and feelings dictate how you show up and achieve the goals and objectives you need to hit to live up to your standards. Parting Questions Favorite Golf Movie? Caddy Shack What is your walk-up song to the first tee-box? Thunderstruck ACDC Where to find Ben Newman: Website Facebook Twitter Instagram Youtube Ben&#8217;s Podcast &#8220;The Burn&#8221; Other podcast episodes with Ben Newman: Ed Mylett: Ben Newman: Find the BURN Within YouReal AF with Andy Frisella: Ben Newman: Win The Day Episode Sponsors: LINKSOUL:&nbsp;For your 20% discount on LINKSOUL gear, go to&nbsp;18strong.com/linksoul&nbsp;or click the logo above. LivPur: For your 15% discount on LivPur products, go to&nbsp;LivPur.com&nbsp;(or click the logo above) and use the code &#8220;18STRONG&#8221;. Brain.fm: For your Free Trial and 20% discount on the Brain.fm App, go to&nbsp;Brain.fm/18STRONG&nbsp;(or click the logo above) and use the code &#8220;18STRONG&#8221;. More Cool Stuff to Check Out: To continue the conversation and ask any questions you may have, head over to the&nbsp;18STRONG Movement group on Facebook. 18STRONG Pro Shop (Get your 18STRONG gear!) 18STRONG Resources (All of the cool stuff we recommend: products, books, golf stuff, etc &#8211; and discount codes for the 18STRONG Crew)

Matt Saternus is the founder and editor in chief of Plugged In Golf, an online publication that provides no-nonsense information for the golfer looking to dig into their equipment, instruction, game improvement, and just about anything else under the golf sun. One of their specialties at Plugged In Golf is testing and busting common advice in golf that we&#8217;ve all heard and simply take for granted in their &#8220;Golf Myths Unplugged&#8221; series. Much like the show Mythbusters, Matt and his team at Plugged In find the myths in golf and put them to the test to find out what is real and what is not true or unverifiable. Things like: Should I always hit a driver, or is the 3-wood strategy a safer play?Are after market shafts really better than stock shafts?Is it more effective to lay up or let it rip? Some of these answers really surprised me so I think you’re going to learn quite a few things. Matt is also an expert club-fitter and tackles some of the most frequent questions we&#8217;ve all asked ourselves when it comes to the &#8220;when should I get fit for clubs?&#8221; topic. Matt Saternus’ Background Though he was introduced to golf at a young age, the game didn’t get into Matt’s blood until he was in college.&nbsp; Matt spent his first 18 years playing basketball and followed that with 4 years at Duke University where he worked for Coach Mike Krzyzewski and the Duke Men’s Basketball Team.&nbsp; Matt learned many lessons about commitment and winning at the highest level which he has applied to his coaching.During his time at Duke, Matt fell in love with the endless challenge that is golf.&nbsp; He committed himself to practicing and improving his own game as well as learning everything he could about the golf swing.&nbsp; He has spent countless hours following the latest research on the science of golf.Matt has coached hundreds of golfers of all ability levels, from beginners to aspiring professionals.&nbsp; In addition to being an accomplished coach, Matt’s knowledge of golf equipment and fitting is second to none. Matt is the Founder and Editor in Chief of Plugged In Golf. He&#8217;s worked in nearly every job in the golf industry from club fitting to instruction to writing and speaking.Matt currently lives in the northwest sub&nbsp; urbs of Chicago with his wife, two daughters, and dog. Highlights from this Episode His background with basketball at Duke and how he found himself in love with the game of golf. He also talks on how he dove headfirst into fitting after working golf retail and how he launched his online publication.He talks on some of the myths they have debunked or found true in their “Golf Myths Unplugged” section they have been doing since the launch of their publication like should you always hit a driver or are you safer hitting a 3 wood off the tee? Should you lay up or should you go for it? Are aftermarket shafts better than stock shafts?His thoughts on the distance debate currently happening with the PGA and a solution he can think of to make everyone happy while keeping the courses from getting longer and larger.When golfers should be getting fit for clubs and the three things all golfers should know about their clubs and their fit. He also touches on up and coming golf tech companies to keep an eye on. Parting Questions Favorite Golf Movie? Caddy Shack What is your walk-up song to the first tee-box? Izzo by Jay-Z Favorite Book? Stories of Your Life and Other by Ted Chiang What’s your dream foursome? Abe Lincoln, LBJ, and Euguene Debs at CyprusBest piece of golf advice? Where to find Matt Saternus and Plugged In Golf: Website Facebook Twitter Instagram Episode Sponsors: LINKSOUL:&nbsp;For your 20% discount on LINKSOUL gear, go to&nbsp;18strong.com/linksoul&nbsp;or click the logo above. LivPur: For your 15% discount on LivPur products, go to&nbsp;LivPur.com&nbsp;(or click the logo above) and use the code &#8220;18STRONG&#8221;. Brain.fm: For your Free Trial and 20% discount on the Brain.fm App, go to&nbsp;Brain.fm/18STRONG&nbsp;(or click the logo above) and use the code &#8220;18STRONG&#8221;. More Cool Stuff to Check Out: To continue the conversation and ask any questions you may have, head over to the&nbsp;18STRONG Movement group on Facebook. 18STRONG Pro Shop (Get your 18STRONG gear!) 18STRONG Resources (All of the cool stuff we recommend: products, books, golf stuff, etc &#8211; and discount codes for the 18STRONG Crew)

Today, Evan Singer from The Par Train Podcast and I dig into a lot of different topics surrounding the mental game and how most of us regular golfers think our way through the round. We also talk about Evan’s personal experience winning a long drive competition and learned lessons on managing stress and pressure with the game and managing the mental load. Afterward, we dive into a ton of different topics like confidence vs. skill, the mental attitude you show up to the course with and how all of this relates to your performance, and the mindfulness aspect of golf so if you’re like me and geek out over the self-improvement and the always getting better aspect of the game, this episode is definitely for you. Evan Singer’s Background Evan Singer and Matt Cermak are co-founders of The Par Train Podcast and online community that reaches 4M+ golfers a month. Their mission is to make the mental game more relatable and accessible so golfers can shoot lower scores without changing their swings, become happier, more fulfilled humans, and finally begin to #EnjoyTheRide.&nbsp;Evan played baseball growing up and is now a 6 handicap.Having worked for companies like TaylorMade Golf, the NFL, and Uber, he now has his own consulting company that helps golf brands with their marketing and trains employees on how to manage stress and perform. Highlights from this Episode Evan starts off talking about the Member-Guest competition at Meadowbrook that he played in and won the Long drive competition and the journey and mental work he put into using his driver the following year to getting to that victory.What his five executional keys were that day, how to discover your executional keys when you need to perform under pressure, and how to shake off doubt when your focus on hitting these keys starts to waver.&nbsp;How he met his co-host and the impetus to start The Par Train and have the conversations about using techniques of golf to better your life and vice versa. Evan digs into how the mental goals of golf do not differ much from the mental goals of living a happy and positive life.How he works with his golfers on becoming the observer in themselves and become more mindful of thoughts, actions, and reactions. He also touches on his thoughts on the connection of staying mentally sharp and our nutrition/fitness. Where to find Evan Singer (The Par Train Podcast): Website Instagram Twitter WANT TO GET COACHED BY EVAN? Episode Sponsors: LINKSOUL:&nbsp;For your 20% discount on LINKSOUL gear, go to&nbsp;18strong.com/linksoul&nbsp;or click the logo above. LivPur: For your 15% discount on LivPur products, go to&nbsp;LivPur.com&nbsp;(or click the logo above) and use the code &#8220;18STRONG&#8221;. Brain.fm: For your Free Trial and 20% discount on the Brain.fm App, go to&nbsp;Brain.fm/18STRONG&nbsp;(or click the logo above) and use the code &#8220;18STRONG&#8221;. More Cool Stuff to Check Out: To continue the conversation and ask any questions you may have, head over to the&nbsp;18STRONG Movement group on Facebook. 18STRONG Pro Shop (Get your 18STRONG gear!) 18STRONG Resources (All of the cool stuff we recommend: products, books, golf stuff, etc &#8211; and discount codes for the 18STRONG Crew)

Today I am especially excited to bring back our special guests, Garry Nicol and Karl Morris, authors of The Lost Art of the Short Game. Gary and Karl are good friends of us here at the 18Strong podcast and we&#8217;re excited to have them back on to talk about their latest book in the Lost Art trilogy. Karl and Gary think differently than most golf instructors and mental coaches that you see or read about in publications or magazines. When writing their “instructional” books, they include very little technical instruction and focus more on who you are as a golfer; your philosophies, how you approach the game mentally and physically, and how you create your experiences out there. In this episode today we really dig deep into many important questions and strategies, such as visualization, the difference between having a positive mind vs. a calm mind, the difference between &#8220;playing&#8221; the shot and &#8220;selecting&#8221; the shot, the concept of acceptance, and a specific situation I had with one of my golfers struggling with nerves and anxiety and what Gary and Karl would have told this young golfer. Karl Morris’ Background Karl has worked as a performance coach to some of the world’s best golfers with over 100 PGA Tour, European Tour, LPGA Tour and Ladies European Tour players including six major winners such as Louis Oosthuizen, Graeme McDowell, and Darren Clarke.He is the co-author of the recently released book ‘The Lost Art of Putting’ as well as ‘Attention –the secret to YOU playing great golf’ and ‘Golf –The Mind Factor’ with Ryder Cup captain Darren Clarke.He has personally trained over 1000 certified Mind Factor coaches worldwide. Gary Nicol’s Background Born in Scotland, Gary Nicol turned professional in 1988.Since then, he has traveled the world coaching golfers of all standards from weekend players to tour pros including Ryder Cup players, Olympians, and winners of major championships.Gary is a certified TrackMan Master and Mind Factor coach and is based at the stunning Archerfield Links on Scotland’s Golf Coast. Highlights from this Episode What brought them to write their Lost Art Trilogy and both why they titled them the Lost Art and what that has done for them in how they approach the game.The different results they see in their golfers when the focus the attention from externally (form, technique, swing) to internal (focus, attention, asking the right questions and setting the right intentions.)Why it was important to get into a little of the techinal side of golf in this book on the short game and the idea of bouncing.The art of acceptance in both the bad and good shots, Karl talks about why it is so important and why we as golfers are so bad at it.They both talk about the ideas of distance vs. direction and playing the shot vs. selecting the shot, explaining and defining each and picking the proper time to use each.They both give advice to the golfer battling nerves and anxiety before a big match. &nbsp;Bringing creativity and enjoyment back to your golf game and the importance of visualization; drills and exercises to seeing the golf shot in your head and that will dictate the golf swing you end up making. Where to find Karl &amp; Gary: Lost Art of Golf Website The Lost Art of the Short Game Karl Instagram Gary Instagram Episode Sponsors: LINKSOUL:&nbsp;For your 20% discount on LINKSOUL gear, go to&nbsp;18strong.com/linksoul&nbsp;or click the logo above. LivPur: For your 15% discount on LivPur products, go to LivPur.com (or click the logo above) and use the code &#8220;18STRONG&#8221;. Brain.fm: For your Free Trial and 20% discount on the Brain.fm App, go to Brain.fm/18STRONG (or click the logo above) and use the code &#8220;18STRONG&#8221;. More Cool Stuff to Check Out: To continue the conversation and ask any questions you may have, head over to the&nbsp;18STRONG Movement group on Facebook. 18STRONG Pro Shop (Get your 18STRONG gear!) 18STRONG Resources (All of the cool stuff we recommend: products, books, golf stuff, etc &#8211; and discount codes for the 18STRONG Crew)

This week we have Wes Patterson, world long driver, on the show to talk to us about really everything in the world of Long Drive. Wes is one of the top Long Drivers on the planet. Currently ranked #12 in the world, he came in T5 in 2021 and has been a 4-time finalist in the world long drive championship. He has some ties back to St. Louis so we got to catch up on some local golf, his recent long drive competitions, how he trains throughout the year, and a new business that he has brewing that’s going to help golfers with financial backers that also has to do with some of the gambling going on in the world of sports and golf. It was fun to talk to him about the expectation of Bryson going into the long drive competition this year and also the reaction from the current guys that have been doing this for years; is he helping or hurting? I’m really excited for you guys to hear Wes’ opinion and the future for long drive competitors. Wes Patterson’s Background World Rank &#8211; 12th World Long DriveT5 2021 PLDA World Championships2018 Global Infinity Series Long Drive World Champion2017 World Long Drive ChampionshipTop 8 Finalist ⁃ Team USA Long Drive&nbsp;4 Time World Long Drive World Championship Finalist Raised Million+ Dollars for Charity Highlights from this Episode What brought him into the world of golf and more specifically the long drive golf realm and how a series of events from not landing a sales job and trying to withdraw from a Monday qualifier led him to where he is now.We talk about Bryson DeChambeau and what Wes’ expectations of him were at first and how his opinion has changed over time. He also talks about other pros on tour now that could come disrupt the long drive game like Bryson did.He talks about what his training regimen looks like and how he has learned and overcome some of his own limitations with his golf swing.His new business (The Press) in helping golfers find financial backing to help ensure that each golfer gets a fair shot at the game and help to bridge the high costs of travel and entry fees.What skills he has transferred from his baseball background to his long drive game and how most long drive players come from a baseball or hockey background. He also talks about pro golfers vs. long drivers in terms of technique. Parting Questions Favorite Golf Movie? Caddy Shack What is your walk-up song to the first tee-box? What is love by Haddaway Favorite Book? Winning the war in your mind by Craig Groeschel What’s your dream foursome? Kevin Kisner, Boo Weekley, Steve Marino at Tequesta Country Club What&#8217;s your bucket list course?Cyprus Point What&#8217;s the best piece of golf advice and long drive advice you&#8217;ve ever received? Remember, it&#8217;s not life or death and you quickly realize who is with you and who is not. Where to find Wes Patterson: Facebook Twitter Instagram The Press Golf website Episode Sponsors: LINKSOUL:&nbsp;For your 20% discount on LINKSOUL gear, go to&nbsp;18strong.com/linksoul&nbsp;or click the logo above. LivPur: For your 15% discount on LivPur products, go to&nbsp;LivPur.com&nbsp;(or click the logo above) and use the code &#8220;18STRONG&#8221;. More Cool Stuff to Check Out: To continue the conversation and ask any questions you may have, head over to the&nbsp;18STRONG Movement group on Facebook. 18STRONG Pro Shop (Get your 18STRONG gear!) 18STRONG Resources (All of the cool stuff we recommend: products, books, golf stuff, etc &#8211; and discount codes for the 18STRONG Crew)

Today we’re talking to, Chris Harder, golf coach for our good buddy and PGA Tour rising star Hayden Buckley. Chris has been working with Hayden since he was a youngster around the age of 12 in Tupelo, MS. He continues to guide and coach Hayden through the ranks from a high school player that really wasn’t on track to play collegiate, to a hopefully soon-to-be PGA winner. We get to catch up talking about Hayden’s rise to the PGA tour, what they continue to work on a regular basis, and what does it look like when they meet up virtually or otherwise before a tournament So if you want an inside look into what it&#8217;s like working with a PGA athlete and what that growth is that takes a player from a young high-school athlete, the attitude and work ethic they have, this is the perfect episode for you.  Chris Harder’s Background Chris Harder is currently the Director of Golf at Urbana Country Club in Urbana Illinois. He has been a member of the PGA for over 10 years and loves seeing golfers of all levels strive to reach their potential. Chris played Division I college golf at Austin Peay State University In Clarksville TN where he was part of a team that won 3 conference championships. After college Chris continued his path into the golf business working at facilities in Boca Raton Fl, Huntsville AL, Tupelo MS, Ormond Beach FL, and now Urbana IL. It was while Chris was working in Huntsville AL at the Ledges where his career got a kick start by meeting PGA Tour instructor Mark Blackburn. Mark mentored and guided his path into instruction. With Marks mentorship he learned the body/swing connection, as well as introducing him to technology that changed golf instruction today. Today Chris most well-known client is PGA Tour player Hayden Buckley. Hayden was one of the top 5 ball strikers on the Korn Ferry Tours in 2021, and so far on the 2022 PGA Tour season Hayden has been off to a good start. He is ranked 8th in scoring and 12th in strokes gained Tee to Green. Chris is married to his wife Catherine and has two kids Graham 7 and Grace 3. Highlights from this Episode How he grew up honing his skills and creativity in the game and what his introduction to golf looked like.How kids introduced to golf today in more structured and regimented programs and tracks compare to how he grew up and the pros and cons of each.We talk about the duality of how the average golf watcher would be surprised by how bad of shots pros can hit but also not comprehend just how good some of these pros are in their consistency.He takes us back to what starting to work with Hayden looked like and how they have grown over the years. Chris describes Hayden as a younger player and his strengths to the player he is now. &nbsp;What it was like working under Mark Blackburn, his major takeaways and how technology is only as good as the coach that knows how to utilize it properly.&nbsp; Parting Questions Favorite Golf Movie? Caddy Shack What is your walk-up song to the first tee-box? I Stand Alone by Godsmack Favorite Book? It Takes What It Takes by Trevor Moawad What’s your dream foursome?Hayden, My Dad, My Son, at Augusta Best piece of golf advice you’ve been given?It&#8217;s not what happens to golfers but how they choose to respond that distinguishes champions. Stay in the present and have fun. Where to find Chris Harder: Twitter Instagram Episode Sponsors: LINKSOUL:&nbsp;For your 20% discount on LINKSOUL gear, go to&nbsp;18strong.com/linksoul&nbsp;or click the logo above. LivPur: For your 15% discount on LivPur products, go to&nbsp;LivPur.com&nbsp;(or click the logo above) and use the code &#8220;18STRONG&#8221;. More Cool Stuff to Check Out: To continue the conversation and ask any questions you may have, head over to the&nbsp;18STRONG Movement group on Facebook. 18STRONG Pro Shop (Get your 18STRONG gear!) 18STRONG Resources (All of the cool stuff we recommend: products, books, golf stuff, etc &#8211; and discount codes for the 18STRONG Crew)

Today we’re tackling an ailment that almost every golfer on the planet has struggled with, or will, at some point in their golfing life &#8230; and that is Golfer’s Elbow. Our special guest, Emma Green (known as the “Tennis Elbow Queen”) joins us to explain exactly what the tennis elbow and golfers elbow are (they’re very much the same diagnosis just different spots of the elbow,) and walk us through some of the DO&#8217;s and DONT&#8217;s of preventing and treating golfer&#8217;s elbow. There’s nothing worse than having a nagging injury that lingers and keeps you off the golf course or somehow impacts your game. What I really love about this episode is the practical advice that Emma gives us to do on our own based on her experience working with athletes of all kinds (drummers, golfers, tennis players, etc) and how she dispels a few of the common practices that we have relied on in the past with little results. Emma Green’s Background Emma graduated from Manchester University, England as a Physical Therapist and added a Masters degree in Sports Medicine. She is now dual qualified being both a licensed Physical Therapist (USA) and a State Registered Physiotherapist (UK) along with being certified in Clinical Pilates through the Australian Physiotherapy and Pilates Institute (APPI).She created her Tennis Elbow Success Method &#8211; to make sure that no one has to suffer from a lack of care or being told they have to stop doing what they love like she did as a 13 year-old.​Emma&#8217;s early career saw her traveling worldwide with numerous sport&#8217;s teams, the highlight of which was working at the London 2012 Olympic Games. Highlights from this Episode As the first physical therapist and phsyio-therapist on the podcast, she touches on the difference between the two and why it was important to have both.How she cornered the market on Tennis Elbow and coined herself the “Tennis Elbow Queen.” She also distinguishes the difference between tennis elbow and golfer&#8217;s elbow.What the differences look like between someone who is just starting to experience some signs of tennis or golfer’s elbow as compared to someone who has experienced and lived with this for years.The common treatments that have gone by the wayside a bit and we can rule out as compared to what will help in the short term and long run combating this.Other areas of the body that can be affected by tennis or golfers elbow and how often it is the result of other systems not moving the way they should.What the average golfer who has never had golfers or tennis elbow can start to implement right away to keep these at bay.&nbsp;&nbsp;Whether injections are actually a good and long term healthy way to curb and treat tennis elbow and tendon pains. Parting Questions Favorite Golf Movie? Caddy Shack What is your walk-up song to the first tee-box? Wannabee by the Spice Girls Favorite Book? You are a badass by Jen Sincero The Big Leap by Gay Hendricks What’s your dream foursome?Richard Branson, Clint Eastwood, Oprah at Pebble Beach Where to find Emma Green: Website Facebook Twitter Youtube Download Emma&#8217;s FREE guide Download the PDF and Videos HERE Episode Sponsors: LINKSOUL:&nbsp;For your 20% discount on LINKSOUL gear, go to&nbsp;18strong.com/linksoul&nbsp;or click the logo above. LivPur: For your 15% discount on LivPur products, go to&nbsp;LivPur.com&nbsp;(or click the logo above) and use the code &#8220;18STRONG&#8221;. More Cool Stuff to Check Out: To continue the conversation and ask any questions you may have, head over to the&nbsp;18STRONG Movement group on Facebook. 18STRONG Pro Shop (Get your 18STRONG gear!) 18STRONG Resources (All of the cool stuff we recommend: products, books, golf stuff, etc &#8211; and discount codes for the 18STRONG Crew)

This week we have Johnny Wunder, the Content Marketing Manager for Callaway Golf on the show. Johnny is the man with the inside scoop when it comes to the tour pros&#8217; equipment. Johnny enlightened me on what goes through the mindset of a golf &#8220;gear head&#8221; and what he&#8217;s looking at when breaking down a WITB (What&#8217;s in The Bag?) video. In this episode, we cover Johnny&#8217;s path to finding his &#8220;unicorn job,&#8221; How he had a chance to geek out with Phil Mickelson on his first day and how you can start to learn more about your own equipment to upgrade your game. Johnny Wunder’s Background Johnny Wunder is the Content Marketing Manager of Callaway Golf where he also heads the“Callaway Golf’s World of Wunder” which is described as the “Callaway Golf equipment rabbit hole for the gear heads and eventually the world.”Johnny Wunder is the Director of Original Content, Instagram Manager and Host of “The Gear Dive” Podcast for GolfWRX.com.&nbsp;He was born in Seattle, Wash., and grew up playing at Rainier G&amp;CC. John is also a partner with The Traveling Picture Show Company having most recently produced JOSIE with Game of Thrones star Sophie Turner.&nbsp;In 1997 Johnny had the rare opportunity of being a clubhouse attendant for the Anaheim Angels.&nbsp;He now resides in Toronto, On with his wife and two sons. Highlights from this Episode Johnny’s history with the game of golf and when he discovered his interest in the more technical gear-side of the game. He also talks about his previous work as a film producer and work at GolfWRX and how he got what he calls a “unicorn” job at Callaway golf.He talks about his insane first day working at Callaway getting dropped into the action interview tour pros and the funny story surrounding his interview with his idol Phil Mickelson.We compare different tour pros that are very involved with the setup of their bag like Phil vs those that trust their team and don’t mind as much what they are swinging with like Justin Thomas.He breaks down how Callaway supports their new guys and what young Callaway guys we should be looking at in terms of up and coming talent.Fitness vs. Equipment: With golf tour players focusing more and more on athleticism, Johnny talks about where he puts stock in what is more important and how both are impacting how far these guys can hit the ball.How he would recommend tinkering without going too crazy and spending thousands of dollars. Johnny dives into the little things you can adjust or look at when it comes to your gear to make the biggest difference. Parting Questions Favorite Golf Movie? Dead Solid Perfect What is your walk-up song to the first tee-box? The Theme to Indian Jones by John WilliamsFavorite Book?Sermon on the Mount&nbsp; What’s your dream foursome? Tiger Woods, Ben Hogan, and Bobby Jones at Augusta Where to find Jiohnny Wunder: Instagram Website Episode Sponsors: LINKSOUL:&nbsp;For your 20% discount on LINKSOUL gear, go to&nbsp;18strong.com/linksoul&nbsp;or click the logo above. LivPur: For your 15% discount on LivPur products, go to&nbsp;LivPur.com&nbsp;(or click the logo above) and use the code &#8220;18STRONG&#8221;. More Cool Stuff to Check Out: To continue the conversation and ask any questions you may have, head over to the&nbsp;18STRONG Movement group on Facebook. 18STRONG Pro Shop (Get your 18STRONG gear!) 18STRONG Resources (All of the cool stuff we recommend: products, books, golf stuff, etc &#8211; and discount codes for the 18STRONG Crew)

Today I am especially excited to bring on our special guests, Frank and Mike Fasano from Golficity. Frank and Mike Fasano, two cousins that, nearly a decade ago, decided they wanted to make golf more fun and enjoyable through exciting and entertaining content. Thus, Golficity and The Golf Podcast were born! Today, the guys share their journey from the corporate world to living in the world of golf creating content. We go behind the scenes on what it looks like managing their podcast, shooting videos, and what impact that has had on their own personal games, now that they have branched out to so many different avenues of media. They are exploring how to get better at the game of golf themselves, but invite guys just like yourself to join them on their journey through their podcast episodes, articles, and youtube channel. We talk about everything from golf trips and lessons learned to fitness habits and the virtual golf event they have been doing for the last couple of years that has grown to 2,000 entrants. We&#8217;re not professionals, but rather amateurs who are always looking to improve and seek out some of the most epic courses and equipment.Mike Fasano Golficity&#8217;s Background Frank and Mike Fasano are two cousins who started Golficity, LLC almost a decade ago.  Their goal was simple, to make golf more fun and enjoyable through exciting and entertaining content.   They are not professionals, but rather amateurs who are always looking to improve and seek out some of the most epic courses and equipment. Their office is located in Bergen County, New Jersey and their podcast, The Golf Podcast has been running for 7 years with almost 400 episodes! Highlights From This Episode How these two cousins started Golficity from a need for golf content that is relatable to the hobby and amateur golfer. They also talk on how it evolved from a blog to a podcast to the multi-faceted platform they have now from articles to podcast episodes and video content.Their virtual tournament and how it brings together 2,000+ golfers together to play rounds of golf around the world. We also dive into the logistics of making an event like this happen like using the Peioria handicap system.They both answer one lesson they’ve learned from their many interviews and shows that has directly impacted their personal games.Their experience playing The Old Course and St. Andrews and how they played 10 rounds in 6 days and also their Jersey Shore Tour playing the great courses around the state of New Jersey.What their fitness routines look like and how they are focusing on fitness as a key to longevity in the game.What team USA is looking like for the Ryder Cup and other PGA hot topics. Parting Questions: Favorite Golf Movie? Mike &#8211; Happy Gilmore Frank – Happy Gilmore What’s your walk-up song to the first tee box? Mike – Thunderstruck AC/DC Frank – Anything to keep me relaxed What book would you recommend? Mike – N/A Frank – Zen Golf by Dr. Joseph Parent What’s your dream foursome? Mike – Michael Jordan, Derek Jeter, Tiger Woods Frank – Tiger, Arnold, and Ben Hogan What’s your bucket list course? Mike- Kapalua Frank- The Ocean Course Where to Find Golficity: Twitter Facebook &nbsp; Instagram Website Youtube Episode Sponsors: LINKSOUL:&nbsp;For your 20% discount on LINKSOUL gear, go to&nbsp;18strong.com/linksoul&nbsp;or click the logo above. LivPur: For your 15% discount on LivPur products, go to&nbsp;LivPur.com&nbsp;(or click the logo above) and use the code &#8220;18STRONG&#8221;. More Cool Stuff to Check Out: To continue the conversation and ask any questions you may have, head over to the&nbsp;18STRONG Movement group on Facebook. 18STRONG Pro Shop (Get your 18STRONG gear!) 18STRONG Resources (All of the cool stuff we recommend: products, books, golf stuff, etc &#8211; and discount codes for the 18STRONG Crew)

Today I am especially excited to bring on our special guest, Ronnie Doss. It is good to be back! We took a bit of a break here at the 18STRONG Podcast getting our new facility up and operational, but we are back and have some awesome guests and content in the pipeline! I don’t even know how to describe Ronnie Doss. He has been executing leadership training for the last decade in more than 10 countries working with leaders at the highest level, including global organizations like American Express, AT&amp;T, the US Military, and NASA. His mission ultimately is very clear regardless of the organization he is working with, we don&#8217;t get what we want, we get what we are committed to. We don’t get what we want, we get what we are COMMITTED to.Ronnie Doss Ronnie has authored two books: Leading Lions and Dig. He is also the host of The Emerge Podcast. We are all on this journey: whether that be your health, fitness, golf, or weight loss. There is something that keeps you up at night and this podcast, this episode, is going to challenge you to get better and to be better (even if it may feel like a punch in the mouth.) Ronnie Doss&#8217; Background Ronnie has trained teams for over 10 years in the realm of human behavior and personal development. His understanding of why people think, feel and behave gives him phenomenal insights into what may be holding an individual back.Ronnie believes the key to building successful organizations begins with building empowered individuals.Over the past decade, Ronnie has led leadership training in countries around the world including Australia, New Zealand, and the Netherlands.Whether for Fortune 100 or Fortune 500 companies, top-universities, the US military, or non-profit organizations, his message rings very clear; Ronnie is author of the books, “Leading Lions”  and &#8220;Dig,&#8221; as well as host of the EMERGE weekly leadership podcast.He and his wife Jennifer have been married for 13 years and currently live in Scottsdale, AZ with their two daughters, Addison and Kennedy. Highlights From This Episode He gives us a glimpse into how he got into this realm of self-improvement and how he has found himself working with the best of the best from all these different arenas of life for the last decade.How he helps navigate the roads of staying on track with personal goals and not seeing failure as the absolute that we sometimes do. He also goes into how we don’t ever find balance, we just create it.Why he has an emphasis on exercise with all clients he works with and how self betterment has to happen in both the mind and the body. He also touches on “No Mans Land:” the mentality of being between really wanting/needing change but not wanting to sacrifice or change their status quo.The concept of motivation and commitment and how if you don’t make time you don’t find time. We also talk about “competing commitments” and how to assess your time to make sure you are getting done what you actually need to do and what is most important to you. Parting Questions: Caddy Shack or Happy Gilmore? Happy Gilmore If you could play 18 holes with anyone, who would it be? Mom, My Step-dad, and Alan Watts Find Ronnie Doss: Twitter Facebook &nbsp; Instagram Website Episode Sponsors: LINKSOUL:&nbsp;For your 20% discount on LINKSOUL gear, go to&nbsp;18strong.com/linksoul&nbsp;or click the logo above. LivPur: For your 15% discount on LivPur products, go to&nbsp;LivPur.com&nbsp;(or click the logo above) and use the code &#8220;18STRONG&#8221;. More Cool Stuff to Check Out: To continue the conversation and ask any questions you may have, head over to the&nbsp;18STRONG Movement group on Facebook. 18STRONG Pro Shop (Get your 18STRONG gear!) 18STRONG Resources (All of the cool stuff we recommend: products, books, golf stuff, etc &#8211; and discount codes for the 18STRONG Crew)

As we continue to finish up construction and moving into our new 18STRONG HQ, we are doing one more &#8220;revisited&#8221; episode from the archives. This interview is one of my favorites on the short game with one of the top instructors in the world: James Seickman. James not only teaches at Shadow Ridge Golf Club in Omaha, Nebraska, but he is also recognized as one of the top Golf instructors in the world working with PGA tour players, Web.com players, LPGA players and many more. He was named the 2018 Teacher of the Year through the PGA and has authored two books, Your Short-game Solution and  Your Putting Solution. In this episode we cover not only how James came about in his golf career going from playing golf to being an instructor, but how he figured out the intricacies of the golf swing through recording golf swings from tour players. He shares 3 pivotal components about the short game that were completely opposite of what he had initially been taught and breaks down the process that he teaches his players, how they can learn from their mistakes, and how they can become more intelligent to taking the feedback from their practices and using that out on the course. James Sieckmann’s Background Director of Instruction at The Golf Academy at Shadow Ridge Country Club in Omaha, Nebraska.A nine-time recipient of the Nebraska PGA Section Teacher of the year.Recognized by GOLF Magazine as a Top 100 Teacher in AmericaGolf Digest 16th Best Teacher in America, but 1st among all short game coachesAuthor ofYour Short Game Solution: Mastering The Finesse Game from 120 Yards and InYour Putting Solution: A Tour Proven Approach to Mastering the Greens.He is the current Short Game Coach to Tour players including Stewart Cink, I.K. Kim, Smylie Kaufman, Ben Crane and Tom Pernice.2018 PGA Teacher of the Year. Highlights From This Episode He initially talks about how he played professional golf for 5 years and how he worked with improper information to improve his skill.After caddying for his older brother, he started videoing all these great players because he wanted to understand what they were doing.  Some of these players included greats like Seve Ballesteros, Greg Norman, etc.James shares 3 pivotal components that he learned about the short game that were completely opposite of what he had initially been taught.He breaks down the process that he teaches his players to learn from their mistakes and be more intelligent about taking in the feedback from their practice.Mechanics on how to set up for a finesse shot, which is what propels you how to hit well. He talks about how set-up is critical.Post shot routine and why it’s important.James stresses that you have to “let the ball be your teacher.”  Learn from your failures. Parting Questions: Caddy Shack or Happy Gilmore? Caddy Shack. What would be your walk-up song? Low Rider – War If you could play 18 holes with anyone, who would it be and where would you play? Bobby Jones, Seve Ballesteros, and his older brother Tom at Cypress. Do you have any parting advice for the 18 Strong Community? If you’re competitive, go out with a smart approach. If you’re not, go have some fun. Find James Sieckmann: website:&nbsp;www.jsegolfacademy.com Twitter:&nbsp;@jamessieckmann Episode Sponsors: LINKSOUL:&nbsp;For your 20% discount on LINKSOUL gear, go to&nbsp;18strong.com/linksoul&nbsp;or click the logo above. LivPur: For your 15% discount on LivPur products, go to&nbsp;LivPur.com&nbsp;(or click the logo above) and use the code &#8220;18STRONG&#8221;. More Cool Stuff to Check Out: To continue the conversation and ask any questions you may have, head over to the&nbsp;18STRONG Movement group on Facebook. 18STRONG Pro Shop (Get your 18STRONG gear!) 18STRONG Resources (All of the cool stuff we recommend: products, books, golf stuff, etc &#8211; and discount codes for the 18STRONG Crew)