The Christopher Perrin Show

Description Christopher Perrin welcomes Dr. John Mark Reynolds for a extensive conversation about the renewal of classical education—and why the term classical often confuses more than it clarifies. Reynolds shares how family life, great teachers, and deep reading (especially C. S. Lewis and Plato) shaped his intellectual and spiritual journey, eventually drawing him into the classical Christian education movement. Together they explore how classical education is not nostalgia or narrow Greco-Roman elitism, but a living tradition rooted in wonder, dialectic, and a “great conversation” that has always been broader than the modern West. The conversation turns to virtue formation and liberal education, arguing that education should prepare students not only for work, but for judgment, sacrifice, and even death. Perrin and Reynolds also address how the classical movement can avoid becoming a guru-driven ideology, how it must remain open to science and modern technological change, and why false dichotomies distort educational debates. The episode closes with Reynolds’ vision for St. Constantine School, a K–16 “grown backward” model that integrates tutorial-style liberal arts education with practical formation for diverse vocations.Episode OutlineWhy the question “What is classical education?” is harder than it sounds (and why it matters for renewal)The paradox of learning: the more you know, the more you know you don’t know Reynolds’ early formation: pastoral family life, reading, and learning to “get to the bottom” of ideasInfluential teachers and the life of wonder: Plato, the Socratic habit, and learning as lifelong pursuitReturning to Christian faith and integrating faith with the life of the mindWhy the word “classical” can mislead: the tradition is global, multi-ethnic, and not limited to Greco-Roman textsClassical education as the “great conversation”: local cultures rooted in mother tongue, connected to a shared metaphysical realityThe liberal arts, virtue, and human freedom: what education once aimed at (and what modern credentialing often replaces)Education as preparation to live well—and to die well: Plato, Scripture, and the moral seriousness of formationAvoiding two dangers in the renewal: guruism and ideological “compounds”Science, technology, and modernity: why classical education must have room for Newton (and for contemporary scientific callings)St. Constantine’s model: tutorial liberal arts, K–16 integration, dual enrollment, and forming “souls fit for paradise”Where to learn more: St. Constantine’s website and ongoing workKey Topics & TakeawaysClassical education is bigger than the word “classical.” The tradition is not inherently ethnocentric; its sources and conversations span regions and cultures, including the Near East and Africa.Wonder and dialectic are central. Reynolds frames classical learning as rooted in Socratic inquiry and a habit of getting to the bottom of things.Liberal education aims at freedom and virtue. True liberty includes self-governance, responsibility, gratitude, and service—virtues modern schooling often thins into mere credentialing.Education should prepare students for ultimate realities. The conversation repeatedly returns to the claim that the one certainty is death, and education should form people who can face it with moral seriousness.The renewal must remain humble. Classical education collapses when it becomes guru-centric, novelty-driven, or triumphalist.Classical education must remain intellectually modern. A classical school should have room for mathematics, science, engineering, and technological prudence—not a nostalgic retreat from modernity.Multiple models are needed. St. Constantine is presented as one viable “iteration,” not the only faithful expression of classical education.Formation serves many vocations. Reynolds argues that tutorial-style liberal arts can prepare nurses, engineers, builders, and citizens—not only professors and “cocktail party” intellectuals.Questions & DiscussionWhat do you mean when you say “classical education” in your own context?List the assumptions you hear most often (elitist, Greco-Roman-only, anti-science, ethnocentric). Draft a two-sentence explanation that highlights both aims (virtue/wisdom) and methods(dialectic/great books/literacy).How should liberal education form freedom and virtue today?Contrast “credentialing” with “formation.” Where does your institution drift toward one over the other? What habits would actually train self-governance (attention, honesty, courage, sacrifice) in students?What does it mean to prepare students to die well?Discuss whether your curriculum implicitly prepares students for comfort and success more than moral endurance. Name one text, practice, or tradition that could restore seriousness about mortality, judgment, and ultimate goods.How can classical education avoid becoming an ideology or “compound”?Identify warning signs of guruism (one name, one method, one “true” model). List practices that keep a school porous and humble (plural models, peer critique, historical study, spiritual disciplines).What do you think of a K–16 approach to classical formation?Discuss potential strengths (continuity, tutorial culture, cost efficiency, coherent formation). Discuss potential risks (scale, resource demands, insularity). What would be a realistic “next step” in your context?Suggested Reading & ResourcesThe Liberal Arts Tradition by Kevin Clark, DLS, and Ravi Scott JainThe Space Trilogy by C. S. LewisSaint Constantine School ClassicalUClassicalU Course: The Liberal Arts TraditionClassicalU Course: Classical Education History and IntroductionClassicalU Course: Introduction to Classical EducationClassicalU Course: Teaching Science Classically: 10 Essential Principles

Description Recorded at the 2026 Great Hearts National Symposium on February 25, 2026, this edited episode features Christopher Perrin’s keynote speech exploring the history, meaning, and renewal of classical education, asking a foundational question: what exactly are we trying to recover? Drawing from sources as diverse as Augustine, Herodotus, Tocqueville, and C.S. Lewis, he traces the transmission of the liberal arts from ancient Greece and Rome through Christendom and into early America. Along the way, Perrin reflects on the gradual fragmentation of this tradition in the modern era, illustrated through the story of the Adams family and the rise of progressive education. Perrin challenges educators to embrace the humility at the heart of true learning—that the more we know, the more we recognize our ignorance—and to see themselves as perpetual students. The episode also highlights the remarkable resurgence of classical education today, describing it as a reawakening of seeds long buried but now beginning to flourish. Perrin emphasizes that education is not merely a science or technique, but the transmission of a living tradition aimed at forming wisdom, virtue, and love. Listeners will come away with a renewed sense of purpose, encouraged to tend the “fire” of learning and to participate faithfully in handing down a rich inheritance to the next generation.Special thanks to the Great Hearts Institute. Episode OutlineWhy the question “What is classical education?” is harder than it sounds (and why it matters for renewal)The paradox of learning: the more you know, the more you know you don’t know “Begin with the end”: death, wisdom, and the purpose of education Tradition as “handing down”: language, culture, and education as inheritance Athens and Rome: Greek paideia, Roman educatio, and the liberal arts as a transmitted curriculumThe Church and Christendom: incorporating Greco-Roman learning, theology as “queen,” and widening accessEngland to early America: grammar schools, Boston Latin, Harvard, and the rise of popular literacy The Adams family as an educational case study: formation, thinning, and the modern fracture Progressive education: what changed, what was gained, and why education can’t be reduced to a quantitative scienceThe modern renewal: early schools (1979–1981), today’s ecosystem, and the need for teacher formation at scaleFinal exhortation: preserve humility, avoid pride, resist false dichotomies, and tend the “fire” of wonder in schoolsKey Topics & TakeawaysClassical education is a tradition before it is a “renewal.” A renewal only makes sense if we can name what is being renewed.Teachers must be perpetual students. The classical teacher models humility—seeking wisdom while resisting the pretense of having arrived.Education is measured by ultimate aims. Human life is fleeting; education gains its meaning from what it prepares us for—virtue, wisdom, piety, and a life rightly ordered.Tradition is unavoidable. Even rejecting tradition requires using language and capacities that were first handed down as a tradition.The liberal arts are an inheritance with a genealogy. From Greek and Roman culture through Christian adaptation, the arts endure because they correspond to human nature.Modern fragmentation reshaped education’s purpose. When technology and “force” become central categories, education shifts from transmitting culture to preparing for flux.Progressive vs. classical is not a simple binary. Many educational “heresies” are partial truths held out of balance (false dichotomies distort practice).The renewal must be sustained by love, not mere critique. A movement fueled only by opposition cannot endure—formation requires positive vision and shared goods.Classical education belongs to humanity. It is deeply shaped by Christianity, but not owned exclusively by Christians; it welcomes seekers and strangers.Questions & DiscussionWhy do you think “classical education” is so difficult to define clearly?Name what you most often hear from parents or colleagues when they ask what “classical” means. Try writing a two-sentence definition that includes both aim (why) and means (how), then compare with others.How does the “perpetual student” posture change the way you teach?Where are you tempted to project certainty or expertise instead of wonder and humility? Identify one practice that would help your faculty model learning (shared reading, teacher seminar, public “I don’t know yet”).What is education for when you “begin with the end” (mortality in view)?How does remembering death sharpen what matters in curriculum and school culture? If you had to prioritize one outcome—wisdom, virtue, piety, civic responsibility—what would you choose and why?What can we learn from the Adams family arc—formation to fracture?In your own experience, where do you see education becoming “garments that no longer fit”? Does your school respond by adapting the form—or by recovering the measure of the human person?What kind of “renewal energy” actually sustains a school long-term?Where does your community rely on critique of modern schooling rather than a positive vision? Identify one “beauty practice” (music, poetry, liturgy, feast, shared reading) that could rekindle joy and friendship.Suggested Reading & ResourcesThe Liberal Arts Tradition by Kevin Clark, DLS, and Ravi Scott JainAn Introduction to Classical Education: A Guide for Parents by Christopher A. Perrin, MDiv, PhDHumanitasAn Essay Toward Education by W. H. H. KaneFrom Dawn to Decadence by Jacques Barzun Democracy in America by Alexis de Tocqueville The Education of Henry Adams by Henry AdamsThe Value of the Classics by Andrew West (ed.)Address to Young Men on Reading Greek Literature by Basil of CaesareaGreat Hearts Institute  Classical Academic PressClassicalUClassicalU Course: The Liberal Arts TraditionClassicalU Course: Classical Education History and IntroductionClassicalU Course:

DescriptionChristopher Perrin welcomes author and speaker Heidi White to discuss her book The Divided Soul and the inner conflict so many people experience between duty and desire. Along the way, Perrin draws on his own work, The Good Teacher, to frame how educators can unite discipline and delight as they form students’ loves. White traces her path from homeschooling into classical education, then explains how a single remark from Andrew Kern—about the Prodigal Son—sparked a long meditation on the “two brothers” within the human heart. From Genesis to Augustine, and from Dante to Homer, they explore how disordered desire can lead either to indulgence (the prodigal) or to self-righteous suppression (the older brother). Perrin and White rehabilitate the language of desire—eros, longing, even the “stars” behind the word desire—as a force meant for joy and union when properly ordered. The conversation turns practical as White describes classroom habits, “much, not many,” and Socratic discussion as ways to unite discipline and delight in student learning. The episode closes with where to find White’s work, including The Divided Soul, her Substack, and The Close Reads community.Episode OutlineHeidi White’s journey: homeschooling, recovering her own education, and entering the classical renewalThe Divided Soul: how the Prodigal Son becomes a template for understanding interior conflictGenesis and the Fall: how desire and duty fracture, and why the rupture shapes every human dilemmaRehabilitating desire: eros, “chaste eros,” fasting and feasting, and longing for heavenAugustine and the divided will: why we do what we hate and resist what we loveTeaching implications: habits, formation, music practice, and the slow education of desireClassroom practice: reading “much, not many,” annotation, handwriting, and Socratic discussionGreat books as living feasts: why students return to Austen, Dante, Homer, and others across a lifetimeKey Topics & TakeawaysThe “two brothers” within us: White argues that the prodigal’s appetite and the older brother’s resentment both live in the same soul—and healing requires reconciliation, not victory by one side.The Fall fractures what paradise joined: In Eden, duty and desire were aligned; sin introduces a traumatic division that echoes through every choice, habit, and temptation.Desire needs rehabilitation, not elimination: Desire is not “for” self-indulgence or suppression, but for joy—ultimately a longing for union with God that remains incomplete this side of eternity.Fasting is a pedagogy of desire: Self-denial isn’t contempt for pleasure; it’s training appetite toward a higher good—because “the purpose of the fast is the feast.”Great teaching makes room for gift: Dutiful habits (reading, writing, practice) create conditions where wonder can “break in” unexpectedly through truth, goodness, and beauty.“Much, not many” restores attention: Classical pedagogy resists “covering content” and instead invites slow, meaningful encounters that students can return to for decades.Love is the bridge between duty and desire: The teacher’s “office” (officium) is fulfilled in benevolent love—guiding the student into communion with the artifact and the joy it holds.Questions & DiscussionWhere do you see the “two brothers” in yourself: indulgence or self-righteous suppression?Identify one area where you chase satisfaction “on your own terms” and one area where you deny desire through resentment or control. What would reconciliation look like—practically—in the next week?How does the Prodigal Son illuminate your relationships (family, faculty, friendships)?Where do you see the temptation to label others as “that son of yours” rather than “this brother of yours”? What practices might restore relationship instead of reinforcing distance?What is desire for in your community’s imagination?Compare two instincts: “fulfill every appetite” vs. “want nothing.” Which dominates your environment?How could you articulate desire as ordered toward joy, union, and holiness? How can teachers unite rigor and joy in a classroom? How can teachers unite rigor and joy in a classroom?Identify one duty you want to strengthen (annotation, narration, memorization, problem sets). Pair it with one practice of delight (Socratic discussion, shared reading, seminar questions that touch real student longings).Suggested Reading & ResourcesThe Divided Soul by Heidi WhiteThe Good Teacher by Christopher Perrin PhD and Carrie Eben MSeDNorms and Nobility by David HicksSt. Augustine’s Confessions by St. Augustine The Odyssey by Homer The Prodigal Son - Luke 15 The CiRCE InstituteClassical Academic PressClose Reads Community Heidi White's SubstackChristopher Perrin’s Substack

DescriptionAndrew Zwerneman, writer and narrator for HISTORY250® and co-founder and president of Cana Academy, joins Christopher Perrin to argue that America’s cultural crisis is, at root, a crisis of memory—and that renewing history education is a work of restoration. Zwerneman traces the teachers, places, and lived experiences that formed him as a historian, then explains why the “liberal discipline of history” must resist ideological reduction and return to observation, sympathy, and fidelity to the past. Along the way, they connect historical remembrance to the deepest human questions: personhood, responsibility, freedom, and the moral imagination that societies inherit. The conversation explores how biblical and classical sources shaped the American founding, how later leaders invoked inherited principles to confront slavery and injustice, and why the West’s habit of self-criticism depends on conserving what came before. Zwerneman introduces Cana Academy and its HISTORY250®  project as practical efforts to rebuild shared story through films, primary sources, maps, and teacher formation. The episode closes with a vivid picture of what great history instruction looks like: students learning to read documents, geography, art, and narrative so they can live under a shared story and recover “hallowed ground.”Episode OutlineZwerneman’s formation: family travel, early teachers, and awakening to the moral weight of historyWhy remembrance is central to human and Christian life: Exodus, Passover, and “do this in remembrance of me”Rejecting “history as a force”: recovering human agency, personhood, and moral dramaAmerican inheritance: scripture, ordered liberty, common law, and natural law in the foundingLearning from paradox: freedom and slavery at the founding; reform movements that appeal to founding idealsThe liberal discipline of history: observation, sympathy, and resisting ideologyWhat students should study: imagery, narratives, structures, data, geography, and the craft of storyCana Academy and HISTORY250®: films, documents, maps, and a “gift” aimed at cultural renewalA tour of the ideal classical history classroom: what you’d see, hear, and practiceKey Topics & TakeawaysHistory restores identity: A people who lose their story lose a clear sense of who they are—and what they owe to the dead and the unborn.Human agency is central: Against “history as a force,” the episode insists that persons mediate between past and present through decisions, sacrifices, and responsibilities.Ordered liberty requires memory: American freedom is rooted in inherited sources (biblical imagination, British rights, common law, natural law), and it decays when citizens forget the responsibilities that attend freedom.History trains moral realism without moralizing: Sympathy is not excuse-making; it is the disciplined effort to understand the human condition before passing judgment.The classroom must return to concrete realities: Great history teaching works from maps, artifacts, documents, portraits, letters, diaries, and place—so students learn “what actually happened.”Shared story creates shared sympathies: Art, poetry, and narrative shape communal feeling and help students situate their lives in a meaningful inheritance.Renewal is practical: Teacher formation, curated primary sources, and accessible tools (films, documents, maps) are presented as tangible ways to fight cultural amnesia.Questions & DiscussionWhat does it mean to study the past “in its pastness”?Discuss why people in the past may act in ways we do not recognize—or approve. How can teachers pursue truth without turning history into propaganda or therapy?How do observation and sympathy change the way we teach hard topics (war, slavery, injustice)?Identify one topic where your students tend to moralize quickly or dismissively. What sources (letters, diaries, speeches, laws, artifacts) could slow them down into careful understanding?What’s the difference between “ordered liberty” and “license”?Describe a modern example where freedom is framed as “doing whatever I want.” What habits, texts, or stories could help students reconnect freedom to responsibility and the common good?Which leaders or movements best model “reform by remembering”? Compare at least two examples discussed (e.g., Douglass, Lincoln, King, Chavez). What did each retrieve from the past to address present suffering?What belongs in a strong history curriculum besides a textbook? Make a list under five headings: imagery, narratives, structural analysis, data, and geography. Choose one heading and propose one new classroom routine (weekly map-reading, document lab, portrait study, artifact analysis, narrative-writing).What would you see in a “great classical upper school” history class?Describe the sounds and practices: seminar discussion, source analysis, narration, map work, interpretive writing, and shared reading. What is one change you could make this term that moves your classroom closer to that ideal?Suggested Reading & ResourcesHistory Forgotten and Remembered by Andrew ZwernemanAmerican Slavery, American Freedom by Edmund S. MorganLand of Hope by Wilfred M. McClayWestern Heritage since 1300 by Donald Kagan, Steven Ozment, Frank M. Turner, and Gregory F. ViggianoThe Second World Wars: How the First Global Conflict Was Fought and Won by Victor Davis HansonHoly Sonnets by John DonneThe Oxford Edition of Blackstone's: Commentaries on the Laws of England: Book I, II, III, and IVPack by William BlackstoneThe book of DeuteronomyThe book of ExodusThe Declaration of IndependenceThe U.S. ConstitutionThe Bill of RightsCana AcademyHISTORY250®The Curious Historian Humanitas

DescriptionChristopher Perrin explores why “classical education” is both widely used and widely misunderstood—and why the language we choose matters. He surveys common assumptions people attach to the word classical (Greek and Roman history, Great Books, elitism, Eurocentrism) and explains why the modern renewal is, for better or worse, “stuck” with the adjective. Perrin argues that we cannot speak clearly about education without metaphor and analogy, since language itself is rooted in metaphor (from lingua, “tongue”). He then turns to the ancient Greek and Latin vocabularies of education—especially paideia (formation) and trophē (nourishment)—to show how earlier cultures understood education as shaping a human person, not merely transmitting information. Using Ephesians 6:4, he compares Greek and Latin renderings (Paul and Jerome) to illustrate how meaning is often “lost in translation” when rich terms are flattened into single English words. Perrin closes by suggesting that if he had to choose one word to gather the tradition, it would be formation—a metaphor that points to education’s deepest aim.Episode OutlineWhy “classical education” is misunderstood: common reactions and cultural assumptionsWhy we keep the word classical: branding, public discourse, and the need for clearer definitionMetaphor is unavoidable: language, analogy, and the “dead metaphors” we no longer noticeGreek terms for education: paideia (formation) and paidia (play), plus other educational vocabularyTrophe as nourishment: education as bringing up, feeding, and forming a childEphesians 6:4 as a case study: Paul’s Greek terms and Jerome’s Latin translation Translation problems: why one English word rarely matches a rich Greek/Latin term The need for “economy with clarity”: using more words (and better words) to describe educationA proposed center-word: formation as the best single term to gather education’s aimsWhere to continue learning: the podcast, ClassicalU, and ongoing reflections on definitionsKey Topics & TakeawaysWords carry history—and drift over time: Even identical spellings (like “educate”) may not mean what they once meant.Metaphor isn’t optional: We describe complex realities (like education) through images, comparisons, and inherited figures of speech.Education is formation, not mere information: Ancient terms frame schooling as upbringing, cultivation, and shaping character.Greek paideia is richer than a single English equivalent: Translations often require multiple terms (training, discipline, instruction) to approximate meaning.Education is nourishment (trophe): The image of feeding and raising up reinforces education’s humane, embodied, relational nature.Translation always involves choices: Comparing Paul’s Greek with Jerome’s Latin exposes what can be gained—and lost—across languages.Clear speech requires more words, not fewer: When society forgets education’s purpose, precision often demands fuller description.Questions & DiscussionWhat does it mean to study the past “in its pastness”?Discuss why people in the past may act in ways we do not recognize—or approve. How can teachers pursue truth without turning history into propaganda or therapy?What do people assume when they hear “classical education” in your context?List the top three assumptions you encounter (e.g., “Great Books only,” elitist, Eurocentric, test-driven). Draft one sentence you could use to clarify what you mean—and what you don’t mean.Where do you see metaphor doing “hidden work” in the way educators talk?Identify common metaphors you use (pipeline, outcomes, delivery, rigor, standards, growth). What do those metaphors emphasize—and what might they obscure?If education is “formation,” what exactly is being formed?Name the top three aims you believe education should form (virtue, wisdom, piety, civic responsibility, attention, love of truth). How does your school’s daily life (not just its curriculum) support those aims?How does the image of education as “nourishment” challenge modern schooling?What “diet” are students receiving—intellectually, morally, spiritually, culturally? What might “malnourishment” look like in a school (and what would renewal look like)?Suggested Reading & ResourcesMortimer Adler: The Paideia Way of Classical Education by Robert Woods, Edited by David DienerThe Good Teacher: Ten Key Pedagogical Principles That Will Transform Your Teaching by Christopher A. Perrin, PhD and Carrie Eben, MSEd Festive School by Father Nathan CarrAn Introduction to Classical Education: A Guide for Parents by Christopher A. Perrin, MDiv, PhDA Student's Guide to Classical Education by Zoë PerrinThe Liberal Arts Tradition by Kevin Clark, DLS, and Ravi Scott JainLatin Vulgate: Ephesians 6:4 Amplified Bible: Ephesians 6:4Expanded Bible: Ephesians 6:4 ClassicalUClassicalU Course: Introduction to Classical EducationClassicalU Course: ParentU: Is Classical Education Right for Your Children?ClassicalU Course: A Brief History of Classical EducationClassicalU Course: The Liberal Arts TraditionClassicalU Course: Classical Education History and Introduction

DescriptionDavid Diener, Assistant Professor of Education at Hillsdale College and president of The Alcuin Fellowship, joins Christopher Perrin to reflect on how a philosopher’s training can become a vocational doorway into the renewal of classical education. Drawing from years in K–12 school leadership and now higher education, Diener describes why classical schools often foster unusually rich intellectual community—and why that matters in an age of academic fragmentation. He also introduces Hillsdale’s Master of Arts in Classical Education (MACE), a program designed to address one of the movement’s biggest bottlenecks: forming well-equipped teachers and administrators. The conversation highlights how enduring philosophical anchors—from Plato and Aristotle to Aquinas—can be translated into concrete classroom practice. Diener then traces the role of The Alcuin Fellowship in deepening the movement’s historical and theoretical grounding, including its influence on The Liberal Arts Tradition. Finally, they look outward to the global growth of classical Christian education, including partnerships and training initiatives in Africa, such as the Rafiki Foundation, and expanding work across Latin America. David Diener has a forthcoming monograph in Spanish that will provide chapter-length essays on various aspects of classical Christian education. Additionally, he has an upcoming course on ClassicalU.com will release in the spring of 2026.Episode OutlineFrom philosophy to teaching: Diener’s academic formation, early teaching experience abroad, and why education became his focusWhy classical schools attract scholars: the “faculty-of-friends” culture and how it can outpace typical undergraduate settingsHillsdale’s MACE program: structure, distinctives, and the need for teacher formation at scaleThe Alcuin Fellowship: purpose, retreats, the “scholar-practitioner” model, and the ecosystem role it playsPublications and intellectual consolidation: how collaborative work helped birth The Liberal Arts Tradition by Kevin Clark, DLS, and Ravi Jain Global and Latin American growth: partnerships, conferences, and emerging networks across continentsKey Topics & TakeawaysFormation Through Practices: What we repeatedly do shapes what we love.Classical Schools as Intellectual Communities: Classical faculties often cultivate cross-disciplinary conversation and shared learning in ways that counter modern academic siloing.Theory-to-Practice Formation: Strong programs don’t leave philosophy abstract—they press big ideas into classroom realities and school leadership decisions.The Teacher-Leader Pipeline is the Bottleneck: Sustainable growth depends on forming more capable teachers and administrators, not merely opening more schools.Why MACE is Built the Way it is: A shared core creates common language and vision; later specialization prepares teachers and leaders for distinct roles.Fellowship as Infrastructure for Renewal: The Alcuin Fellowship functions as a hub for scholar-practitioners who think deeply and serve schools faithfully.From Local Renewal to Global Opportunity: The movement’s growth is increasingly international, with meaningful work underway in Africa and expanding initiatives in Latin America.Questions & DiscussionWhat kind of “fragmentation” have you experienced in education (or your own formation)?What practices have helped you move toward integration?Why might a classical school faculty create stronger intellectual friendship than many modern institutions?Compare your current context to a “lunch-table culture” where teachers learn together across disciplines. What would it take to cultivate that kind of shared learning where you are?What is the role of a fellowship (formal or informal) in renewing an educational tradition?Identify one fellowship function you most need: reading, conversation, research, mentoring, or mutual sharpening. What could be your next practical step to build that community?How should the classical renewal relate to other organizations and conferences in the movement?What do you hope conferences and associations provide beyond inspiration (formation, scholarship, standards, support)? How can leaders prevent “event energy” from replacing sustained local practice?What opportunities—and challenges—come with global growth of classical Christian education?Discuss the difference between exporting a model and serving a local culture with deep roots. What do “curriculum accessibility” and “teacher training resources” mean in practical terms?Suggested Reading & ResourcesThe Liberal Arts Tradition by Kevin Clark, DLS, and Ravi JainThe Liberal Arts Tradition (Audiobook) by Kevin Clark, DLS, and Ravi JainRafiki FoundationThe Rafiki Foundation PodcastAssociation of Classical Christian Schools (ACCS)Society for Classical Learning (SCL)Hillsdale CollegeHillsdale AcademyThe Alcuin FellowshipDr. Christopher Perrin on Substack 

DescriptionFather Nathan Carr, Headmaster of The Academy and often dubbed “the Jack Sparrow of classical education,” joins Christopher Perrin to recount his unexpected path into classical Christian school leadership—and the hard-won lessons of building a flourishing school culture over two decades. Their conversation draws on James K. A. Smith’s Desiring the Kingdom to argue that “liturgies” (in church and in culture) quietly train our loves and longings. Carr connects that insight to his own work, The Festive School, where he explores how a school’s calendar, habits, and celebrations can become formative—not merely decorative. He also points listeners to his Student Prayer Book as a practical companion for cultivating daily, embodied prayer in the life of a classroom. From The Book of Common Prayer and the daily offices to monastic rhythms like Matins and Compline, he frames education as formation through repeated, prayerful practice. Along the way, they address objections to “rote” ritual, suggesting that repetition can become spiritually alive and deeply consoling over time. The episode closes with concrete snapshots of festivity at The Academy: Lessons & Carols, Stations of the Cross, and campus-wide celebrations of Incarnation and Resurrection. Father Nathan Carr also has a forthcoming course on ClassicalU.com that will release in the early Spring of 2026.Episode OutlineLeadership and longevity: building a flourishing school culture over time James K. A. Smith and “cultural liturgies”: how places and routines form desire Formative practices of the church: reimagining “school” with ecclesial inheritanceA sacramental worldview for education: wonder, gratitude, and formation through loving attentionThe Rule of St. Benedict and the daily offices as a template for student life: Morning prayer / Matins and Lauds, Midday prayer / Sext and remembering Christ’s crucifixion at noon, Night prayer / Compline and the Nunc DimittisRitual and repetition: responding to the “rote” objection; why repetition can become meaningful over timeWhat festivity looks like at The Academy: lessons & carols, stations of the cross, and house feasts, Feast of the Incarnation, and Feast of the ResurrectionKey Topics & TakeawaysFormation Through Practices: What we repeatedly do shapes what we love.Sacramental Imagination Reorients Education: Wonder and gratitude become central virtues of school life.Patterns of Church Applied to the School Day: Benedictine patterns and the daily offices provide a humane rhythm for students and faculty.Repetition Can Produce Spiritual Resilience: Words learned “by heart” may sustain faith in seasons when feelings fail.Festivity as Formative: Shared feasts and rituals can embody the gospel narrative in communal life.Healthy Leadership Protects Culture: Sustainable delegation and team-based responsibility are essential for long-term flourishing.Questions & DiscussionWhat “liturgies” are forming your students right now—outside of your intentions?Consider the repeated routines, spaces, technologies, and schedules in your school day. Identify one “secular liturgy” you want to counter-form with a Christian practice this term.What would change if your school treated reality as sacramental?Name one subject or habit you tend to “instrumentalize”. Discuss one concrete practice that helps students love that subject for its own sake—slow attention, gratitude, or wonder.How can daily prayer become the architecture of the school day rather than an add-on?Draft a simple rhythm (morning prayer, a noon remembrance, end-of-day prayer). Discuss what short forms (collects, call-and-response, sung pieces) would be realistic and faithful for your community.How do you respond to the concern that ritual is “rote” or inauthentic?Share a time when repetition became meaningful (music, athletics, family traditions, worship). Discuss what repetition can form that spontaneity often cannot—stability, shared language, and spiritual stamina.What does “festivity” look like in a way that forms virtue and wonder—not performance or spectacle?Choose one season (Advent, Lent, Eastertide, etc.) and design one practice (meal, hymn, reading, procession, art). Discuss how it teaches the gospel story through shared life.What leadership habits protect a school’s culture over decades?Identify one area where “delegation or death” feels real. Name one next step toward healthy team leadership and sustainable limits.Suggested ReadingDesiring the Kingdom by James K. A. SmithThe Festive School by Father Nathan CarrStudent Prayer Book by Father Nathan CarrThe Rule of St. Benedict by Saint BenedictOrthodoxy by G. K. ChestertonThe Book of Common PrayerRomans 1Note: Dr. Robert D. Crouse, whom Father Nathan Carr mentions as a professor in Trinity, Halifax, Nova Scotia, actually taught in the Classics Department at King's College and Dalhousie University. 

In this reflective episode, Christopher Perrin interviewed Andrew Kern, his long-time colleague and friend, President and CEO of The CiRCE Institute, in a wide-ranging conversation about the philosophy and practice of teaching. They delve into the meaning of truth—what it is, how it’s often misunderstood, and why it remains central to classical Christian education. Drawing from ancient sources and modern confusions, Perrin and Kern challenge the reduction of truth to mere facts, propositions, or private opinion. Instead, they present a more robust vision: truth as reality itself, made known through the Logos, and discoverable in every discipline, from science to poetry.Perrin and Kern explore how this deeper understanding of truth can liberate students, form character, and unify fragmented thinking in a disoriented age. They critique the cultural tendencies toward relativism, scientism, and technocracy, offering classical education as a hopeful and coherent response. Along the way, Perrin and Kern draw on Plato, Augustine, Pascal, and Sayers to recover a compelling view of truth that is beautiful, knowable, and formative. Listeners will be invited to rethink how we teach, how we learn, and how we live in pursuit of what is true.Listeners may also be interested in the book Unless the Lord Builds the House, as well as the Apprenticeship Program and courses taught by Andrew Kern available on ClassicalU. They can also learn more about the newly released book The Good Teacher and the accompanying courses.

In this memorable episode of The Christopher Perrin Show, Christopher welcomes Dr. Grant Horner and Karen Moore—two veteran classical educators and authors—for a spirited conversation about the power of language, memory, and the poetic imagination in Christian classical education. Together, they explore how reading, writing, and reciting great texts form not only the intellect but the soul, training students to love truth, beauty, and goodness through embodied habits of attention and delight. As a key method of embodied learning, they consider the importance of doing some teaching in situ and walking the ground where these events and stories originated.Drawing on decades of classroom experience and curriculum development, Dr. Horner and Moore discuss the importance of early exposure to Latin, the recovery of ancient rhetorical arts, and the integration of poetry into daily learning. Their reflections touch on everything from biblical literacy and etymology to Shakespeare, Cicero, and the Book of Common Prayer—showing how the classical tradition equips students not only to analyze language but to inhabit it with grace and conviction.Listeners will come away invigorated to cultivate memory, nourish imagination, and recover the lost arts of eloquence—beginning in their homes, schools, and homerooms.

In this special episode of The Christopher Perrin Show, Christopher welcomes Dr. Angel Parham, professor of sociology at the University of Virginia and co-author of The Black Intellectual Tradition. Together, they explore the often-overlooked legacy of classical learning in the Black intellectual tradition, tracing its vital contributions from figures like Anna Julia Cooper and Frederick Douglass to the modern classroom.Drawing on her own journey through homeschooling, historical sociology, and the founding of the Nyansa Classical Community, Dr. Parham advocates for a deeply integrated approach to classical education—one that honors the Mediterranean and African roots of the tradition while inviting all students, especially the marginalized, into its freeing and formative power. The conversation also touches on themes of cultural polarization, the liberating nature of reading and writing, and how ancient texts can shape a student's soul and imagination—especially when engaged through the timeless practice of keeping a commonplace book.Listeners will come away inspired to recover classical education as a unifying, deeply human tradition—and perhaps even begin a florilegium of their own.

In this episode, Dr. Perrin gives a foretaste from his forthcoming book with Carrie Eben, The Good Teacher, as he advocates for singing as a powerful and now neglected pedagogical tool. Drawing from traditional sources like Plato and Augustine, Scripture, and personal anecdotes, he explores how music—especially in the form of singing and chanting—can shape the soul, foster joy, and make learning permanent. Perrin traces the etymological and cultural significance of music (from the Greek muse and mousikē), noting how integral it once was to early education and soul formation. He challenges modern classical educators to break free from their limited educational upbringing and rediscover this method of teaching, particularly in the lower grades. Through vivid examples—such as his daughter’s ability to recall scripture, history, and Latin years later through song—Perrin demonstrates how singing enables children to internalize and retain knowledge in a joyful and embodied way. He urges educators to sing far more often than feels natural to the adult mind, to make use of existing resources, and to partner with others in creating musical material. The episode concludes with a compelling invitation: to teach in a way that aligns with the nature of children and the harmonious order of the cosmos—by singing what is true, good, and beautiful.

In this episode, Dr. Christopher Perrin draws upon his forthcoming book with Carrie Eben, The Good Teacher and invites listeners to reconsider the meaning of virtue. It once stood at the heart of education but now often eludes clear definitions. Considering personal experience and the broader tradition of liberal education, Perrin explores how the modern educational landscape has drifted from its roots, leaving many unable to articulate what virtue—or even education—truly is. He explains the classical understanding of virtue as human excellence, rooted in the Latin virtus and Greek aretē, and discusses the cardinal virtues of prudence, justice, temperance, and courage.Perrin then turns to the forgotten tradition of the liberal arts, challenging even well-educated listeners to name and understand them. From this foundation, he builds toward a vision of education as the cultivation of virtue—not only moral and civic but also intellectual and even physical and spiritual. He provides a taxonomy of intellectual or academic virtues—including wonder, zeal, humility, attentiveness, courage, and discipline—and discusses how these can and must be cultivated in students and educators alike. Throughout, Perrin emphasizes that true education forms not just the mind, but the whole person, and that the rediscovery of this vision requires a recovery of vocabulary, tradition, and purpose.

In this episode, Dr. Christopher Perrin explores the often-neglected role of beauty in classical education, emphasizing the importance of engaging all five senses in the learning experience. He challenges the text-centered focus of modern education and invites educators to rethink school environments, advocating for spaces that reflect truth, goodness, and beauty. Through thought experiments and practical suggestions, he encourages schools to move beyond utilitarian aesthetics toward classrooms that feel more like homes, museums, or gardens. He also highlights schools that have successfully integrated beauty into their educational philosophy and provides resources for further exploration. Listeners might also enjoy the book Making School Beautiful by Dr. John Skillen.

In this episode, Dr. Christopher Perrin explores the tension between rigor and rest in classical education, drawing on Aristotle’s concept of virtue as a balance between extremes. He examines how rigor is often emphasized as a corrective to declining academic standards but warns against its overuse, which can lead to a rigid and joyless educational experience. Discussion includes monastic traditions, the etymology of “school” (scholé), and scriptural examples to illustrate how classical education thrives when both rigor and rest are harmonized. By drawing on historical and philosophical insights, as well as practical examples from classical schools, Dr. Perrin advocates for a blended approach that includes contemplation, wonder, and delight alongside academic challenge.

Great teaching isn’t about mastering techniques—it’s about embodying principles. In this episode, Dr. Christopher Perrin explores how classical education prioritizes the formation of virtue in both teachers and students through time-tested pedagogical wisdom and Christian tradition. Using the analogy of carpentry, he explains how principles provide the foundation for effective teaching, allowing educators to apply techniques with wisdom. He also introduces The Good Teacher, a book co-authored with Dr. Carrie Eben, which outlines 10 key pedagogical principles that transform the classroom. Tune in for an inspiring and practical conversation on the art of teaching.

In this episode, Christopher Perrin explores the profound theme of the hero's arduous journey home—as depicted in Homer's The Odyssey. He discusses how Odysseus's return to Ithaca not only signifies a physical homecoming but also a reclaiming of identity and status. Consider in this epic tale the timeless human longing for home and the trials faced along the way.

In this episode, Dr. Perrin who teaches the Odyssey to a college class every year, traces the life and quest of Odysseus noting the ways in which his life turns and twists much like our own, and the way his yearning and the story itself anticipate a kind of fulfillment in the life and ministry of Jesus Christ.

In this episode, Dr. Perrin notes the ways we have forgotten the meaning of words that related to education and revives the meaning of about 20 key words we need to know in order to better understand what education really is.

In this episode, Dr. Perrin describes the way that Christian classical education must offer hospitality to students seeking an intellectual home and healing to the sickness of their souls. While this is not the whole of a robust classical education, it is integral and vital part. (Also with connections to Augustine: Rejoicing in the Truth by Jeffrey Lehman.)

In this episode, Dr. Perrin discusses the difficulty and the importance of keeping with classical learning throughout the entirety of a student's education, and of finding times to be wisdom-seeking Mary in a society that expects everyone to be always-busy Martha.

In this episode Dr. Perrin considers this traditional maxim. Can authors and their books become meaningful teachers and even life-long friends? What is the link between an author and authority? Do we still need living teachers if we have really good books?

In this episode, Dr. Perrin traces that part of the Christian tradition of education that regarded education as a preparation not only for one's earthly life but ultimately for the next, heavenly life. Can such a heavenly focus be of real, earthly merit? The tradition says yes.  

 In this episode, Dr. Perrin describes the pedagogical maximum of Repetitio Mater Memoriae, noting that repetition can be a delightful activity of seeking and experiencing the same good thing again and again until it is permanently possessed. 

 In this episode, Dr. Perrin describes the ways that teaching a few things deeply and well accelerates learning much better than by superficially covering or skimming over content.  

In this episode, Dr. Perrin retrieves and describes one of the most essential pedagogical principles every teacher should employ--the art of going farther and faster by going slower.  

What is an educated mind? Newman says the mature mind "discerns the end in every beginning, the origin in every end, the law in every interruption, the limit in each delay; because it ever knows where it stands, and how its path lies from one point to another." In this episode, Dr. Perrin summarizes Newman on what the grand goal of education truly is--"the perfection of the intellect."  

In this episode, Dr. Perrin laments the ways that classical schools, like progressives schools, regularly "cut up" the curriculum into too many disconnected fragments that become "subjects." 

In this episode, Dr. Perrin explains the why classical schools still retain elements of their progressive counterparts and simply try to teach too much.

In this episode, Davies Owens (from Basecamp Live) and I co-host the podcast and talk about the ways friendship and fellowship should be at the heart of classical education. 

In this episode Christopher Perrin discusses how formative and powerful a great education can be. Tradition is formative but a great tradition is transformative. 

It took a long while to fix the canon of Scripture; it also takes a while to determine that a book is truly a Great Book. Dr. Perrin argues that the process by which both canons are established is similar. 

In this episode, Dr. Perrin continues to explore faith as a theological virtue. 

In this episode, Dr. Perrin explores how theological virtues such as faith, hope, and love complement the four cardinal virtues. 

In this episode Dr. Perrin describes justice as the virtue that enable us to act properly and fairly after having accurately perceived what is real, or the true state of affairs. 

In this episode Dr. Perrin describes how prudence can become falsified so that we are not able to perceive what is truly real. 

 In this episode Dr. Perrin describes how prudence was the chief, governing virtues among the all of the cardinal virtues of prudence, justice, temperance, and fortitude. 

In this episode, Dr. Perrin continues exploring the virtue of fortitude and he discusses the fortitude that is necessary to be a teacher. 

In this episode, Dr. Perrin discusses the virtue of fortitude in classical education and how it relates to teaching. 

 In this episode, Dr. Perrin continues his discussion with Tim McIntosh, a former professor at Gutenberg College and a current creative director, actor, and playwright. They discuss the importance of Shakespeare and other great authors in classical education, and particularly how plays and other creative outlets positively impact students.  

In this episode, Dr. Perrin talks with Tim McIntosh, a former professor at Gutenberg College and a current creative director, actor, and playwright. They discuss the importance of Shakespeare and other great authors in classical education, and particularly how plays and other creative outlets positively impact students. 

In this episode, Dr. Perrin describes the importance of temperance in everyday life and in education.

In this episode, Dr. Perrin describes the importance of friendship in everyday life and in education.

In this episode, Dr. Perrin describes how metaphors can be used to understand classical education.

In this episode, Dr. Perrin explores the meaning of Christian nationalism and how it relates to classical education.

In this episode, Dr. Perrin explores the many contributions Augustine made to the modern understanding of history, education, philosophy, and theology.

In this episode, Dr. Perrin describes the ongoing importance and relevance of both Augustine and Kuyper in classical Christian education.

In this episode, Dr. Perrin explores the meaning of the word, "college" and its role in classical education. What does a college curriculum look like today and how does it compare to what it could look like if classical methods were applied?

In this episode, Dr. Perrin explores the true meaning of the word, "education". What do we mean when we use it and how has this meaning changed over the course of history?

In this episode, Dr. Perrin builds upon Episode 10 by exploring the etymologies and histories behind words that are commonly used in education today.