The Gig Work Podcast

Over the years, I have had countless discussions about, and conducted research into, platform work. The conversation often revolves around the same question: are platform workers employees or self-employed workers? It is an understandable question. After all, legal classification determines rights, obligations, representation and protection. But the longer I follow this market, the clearer it becomes that this focus can sometimes be a pitfall. The employment contract may well be the norm for labour markets in the Global North, but in the ‘Majority world’, where 80 per cent of the global population lives, this is not the case. And whilst lawyers argue over definitions, the market is changing at a rapid pace. Platforms adapt procedures and introduce new schemes before regulations even take effect. Furthermore, in practice I see that a shift from freelancer to employee yields less for the worker than hoped for. Platforms evade their responsibility by working with subcontractors or simply ignore a court ruling. How can you make binding agreements with platforms regarding minimum standards for platform workers? This question was central to a recent WageIndicator webinar, where researcher Alex Veen from the University of Sydney and Jack Boutros from the Transport Workers’ Union (TWU) in Australia shared their experiences. Their story offers an interesting alternative perspective. Not because Australia has found the answer – nobody has got that far yet – but because there, partly due to the nature of the organisation of the labour market, a fundamentally different choice has been made.

A minimum tariff for Uber drivers sounds appealing, but it could significantly disrupt the market. Researchers at Delft University of Technology used computer simulations to predict the effects. The conclusion: a fair wage is possible, but it requires bold political decisions. In this episode of The Gig Work Podcast by the WageIndicator Foundation, I spoke to researcher Farnoud Ghasemi about the findings and the unintended consequences that a seemingly simple measure can have.

In The Gig Work Podcast by the WageIndicator Foundation, Martijn Arets talks to Lena Simet from Human Rights Watch about the downsides of platform work and ways to develop effective policy. “Technology for organizing work has developed at lightning speed, but legislation to protect workers’ rights on platforms is hopelessly behind.” How can we ensure that platform companies in the gig economy behave as responsible employers and clients, rather than greedy intermediaries who make ever-increasing profits and pass the risks and costs of doing business on to workers? Trade unions, labor organizations, and governments around the world are looking for a solution to this problem. This includes Human Rights Watch, an international organization that investigates human rights violations worldwide. In recent years, senior economic justice advisor Lena Simet has been specifically studying the rights impact and economic fairness of platform companies on workers. I spoke to her about her research on The Gig Work Podcast by the WageIndicator Foundation. Her conclusions provide a good overview of developments and opportunities from a global perspective.

During my visit to the Africa Jobtech Summit in Nairobi, I spoke with Michelle Hassan, director of the Jobtech Alliance. In The Gig Work Podcast of the WageIndicator Foundation, she talks about the unique challenges and opportunities of platform work and Job Technology in southern Africa.

In the discussion about platform work, I keep bumping into a big dilemma. Online platforms offer a fast -access solution for work and income in the short term. At the same time, they often fall short in providing good working conditions, sustainable careers, and future perspectives. In my opinion, this tension is the most important challenge for the future of work. How do we solve it? Frida Mwangi knows all about it. She made the transition from housewife to platform worker, and then went on to become an entrepreneur and union leader. As a founding member of the Kenya Union of Gig Workers (KUGWO), she champions the rights of Kenyan platform workers. Her lessons are relevant not only for Kenya, but for the platform economy worldwide. I spoke to her for a new episode of The Gig Work Podcast by the WageIndicator Foundation during my visit to Nairobi, Kenya.

Access to financial services is an issue for many self-employed workers and gig workers. In this episode, I talk to the founder of a startup that has found a solution to this. Rollee makes it easier for platform workers to access financing. Until now, it has been difficult to obtain a loan without a steady monthly income. Lenders want a clear picture of income in order to calculate a credit score. Rollee unlocks data from platforms, banks, tax portals and other relevant data sources for lenders. This should lead to fair access to financial services for all workers. For this episode of The Gig Work Podcast by the WageIndicator Foundation, I travelled to Paris to talk to Ali Hamriti, founder of Rollee. Enjoy listening. 

Ephantus Kanyugi, co-founder of the Data Labelers Association, shares his journey from a finance graduate unable to secure a traditional job in Kenya to working in the digital labor economy. After struggling with informal and low-paid gigs, he joined CloudFactory in 2018 as a data annotator. Despite gaining skills in image, video, and map annotation, the work was unstable, with poor pay, no benefits, and monthly contracts. He later joined Remote Tasks, where initial high earnings declined sharply as tasks became more complex and underpaid. Workers often endured unpaid labor, exploitative surveillance, and lack of basic rights.These experiences sparked the creation of the Data Labelers Association in early 2025, formed by ten experienced trainers aiming to represent the often-ignored majority of AI’s global workforce. The group now includes over 800 members. Their agenda includes pushing for fair pay, mental health support, worker upskilling, civic education, and a code of conduct for platform companies. Ephantus stresses the need to raise awareness among clients, policy makers, and the public about the hidden labor behind AI.

Artificial intelligence (AI) is and will remain dependent on human labour. The people who do the work behind AI systems are often invisible. This carries risks of poor working conditions, low wages and inadequate protection for workers. How does this situation arise, and how can we ensure that the many invisible data workers also benefit from technological developments? For the WageIndicator Foundation's Gig Work Podcast, I (Martijn Arets) spoke with Professor Antonio Casilli (Institut Polytechnique de Paris), author of the book Waiting for Robots, the Hired Hands of Automation.

They are invisible, ubiquitous and indispensable for the development of artificial intelligence (AI): ‘ghost workers’. Millions of people worldwide annotate, check and translate texts and images so that AI can understand and process the information. Who are these people and what drives them? What about their well-being? And what impact do their poor working conditions have on the development of AI? To learn more about this, I sat down with researcher Claartje ter Hoeven of Utrecht University for The Gig Work Podcast from the WageIndicator Foundation.

To get a better picture into unpaid labour and the impact work platforms have on it, I went to Leuven to talk to Valeria Pulignano. Under the Respect-Me project, she and her colleagues are researching unpaid work in the platform economy. We discussed unpaid labour, what impact platforms have on it and what the possible solutions are to reduce unpaid labour and the power balance between workers and platforms.Links: Publication page Respect-Me

Discussions about social security in the platform economy often end up discussing the legal status of workers. The underlying reason is that social security in the Global North is usually heavily tied to employment. What is sometimes forgotten is that in many parts of the world, and mainly in the Global South, this is not the case. Take India, where 78 per cent of the labour market is in the informal sector. How do you organise social securities when there is no dominant form of contract to attach them to? This is the question at the heart of the report ‘The social protection measures implemented by platform businesses across India’, which was published by India's OMI Foundation (a policy research and social innovation think tank operating at the intersection of mobility innovation, governance, and public good). During my stay, I interacted with Prakash Gupta, Lead, Platform Economy and Future of Work, and Apoorv Kulkarni, Head of Research at the Foundation's Centre for Inclusive Mobility, for The Gig Work Podcast by the WageIndicator Foundation. 

What is the impact of platforms in a country like India? During my visit to this exceptionally beautiful country, I struck up a conversation with Varsha Bansal. She is an independent journalist who writes a lot about platform work and the impact of technology on work. In the latest episode of The Gig Work Podcast, I discuss with her the growth and impact of platform work in India, with a particular focus on delivery, taxi and domestic work. 

As a 'non-contract worker', which means you are not an employee and therefore work as a freelancer or in the informal economy, it is difficult to calculate what you should earn per hour to make a decent and liveable living. Because you don't have an employer, you are responsible for including matters such as holiday hours, administration time, pension, insurance and occupation-related costs such as laptops and means of transport in the calculation of your tariff. A tough job in practice. This is why the WageIndicator Foundation developed the Living Tariff tool. Financial support for the development and implementation in the first 3 countries came from GIZ. A new concept that builds on years of experience and research around Living Wages. The Living Tariff is a tool to help non-employee workers to get an overview of what they should earn and support them to make well-informed decisions.

In Colombia, it appears that cooperation between the government and platform entrepreneurs can lead to better working conditions for vulnerable workers. CEO Juan Sebastián Cadavid of domestic cleaning platform Hogarú explains all about it in The Gig Work Podcast.

Online work via platforms offers many workers around the world access to the labour market. For workers, the world is a potential source of employment, but also a competitor. The extent to which this is an opportunity or a threat depends on the uniqueness of your skills and the skills needed for the job, the balance between supply and demand and, of course, where you live on the globe. When you live in an area where the cost of living is high, you are at a disadvantage compared to those with similar skills living in an area where the cost of living is low. The market around online work is creating a truly global job market. With all the opportunities and challenges that come with it. To learn more about the dynamics of a global labour market, I had a conversation with Floor van Haaren: co-founder of Cocoroco. International companies looking for customer service professionals get in touch with candidates from all over the world via Cocoroco's platform. Once they find a suitable person, they start working for the organisation remotely.

Albert Cañigueral Bagó is fascinated by technology, platforms and the world of work. How did the sharing and gig economy develop? And what impact does technology have on workers now and in the future? This is what Martijn Arets discusses with him in The Gig Work Podcast.

Delivery riders connected to platform Glovo do not all get employment contracts, but are covered by the 'Couriers Pledge' in 21 countries. With this, the company promises delivery workers safety, community, equality and a fair income. Why, how does it work and what does a platform worker get out of it? Martijn Arets travelled to Barcelona and spoke to Glovo spokesperson Magalí Gurman.

British tech expert and Uber driver James Farrar has been championing labour rights in the platform economy for eight years. Often successfully. Platform expert Martijn Arets spoke to him on behalf of the WageIndicator Foundation in The Gig Work Podcast about justice, data and the future of platform work. "Our struggle has only just begun," he said.Read a blog on this episode on www.gigpedia.orgThe link to the Harvard paper mentioned by James: https://www.hbs.edu/ris/download.aspx?name=22-050.pdf 

Super-apps like Grab and Gojek are centralising and formalising Indonesia's informal labour market. What problems are associated with this? And what does this teach us about the gig economy worldwide? Martijn Arets explores in The Gig Work Podcast.

Do you want to know where, when and how platform workers protest? The Leeds Index of Platform Labour Protest provides answers. In The Gig Work Podcast, Martijn Arets asks the initiators of this project for their key insights for science and practice.More info on the index: https://leeds-index.co.uk/

Project Fairwork investigates and assesses working conditions for platform workers in 38 countries. And that's not all: the organisation strives for real change and gets it done. How? That's what Martijn Arets talked about with project manager Funda Ustek Spilda in The Gig Work Podcast of the WageIndicator Foundation.

With the conviction that all workers deserve a fair income under good conditions, the team behind the WageIndicator Foundation has been working for almost 25 years to bring more transparency to workers, employers and policymakers worldwide. For this episode, I headed to Bussum to talk to Paulien Osse, co-founder of this initiative. We discuss the story behind WageIndocator, data collection in 200 countries, the gig economy and the global debate. To conclude with a personal look back and forward. You can find more podcasts, articles and a weekly newsletter on 'global issues in the gig economy' at www.gigpedia.org

How can gig economy platforms improve their business for the worker? In this episode, I talk to Markus Steinhauser, COO of crowdwork platform Testbirds. In 2015, he initiated the Crowdsourcing Code: a 'code of conduct' signed by 8 crowdwork platforms and backed by a union. At his office in Munich, I talk to Markus about the reason, the rollout, the results, the opportunities as well as the challenges of this initiative. You can find more podcasts, articles and a weekly newsletter on 'global issues in the gig economy' at www.gigpedia.org