The God Journey - 2007

What do we do if our spouses are not on the same journey as we are? What if one wants to attend a traditional congregation and the other can no longer endure the tired ritual or collateral control issues and want a more relational engagement with other believers? This topic has come up in emails and on the Forum for the past two years and in this special podcast Wayne’s wife Sara joins him to finally take a stab at this important issue. Maybe marriage isn’t about trying to be on the same journey, but to support each other’s journey with love, respect and freedom as God goes about the work of making us one.

The growing animosity between Christian groups and atheists catch Brad and Wayne’s eye this week as they talk further about the impact we can have in the world as secure followers of the living God, rather than those who are threatened by other groups or philosophies. Beginning with listener email they contrast the adventure of obedience to the rigidity of large systems and how the quest for institutional security robs their adherents of the the risks and rewards of freedom. They also explore the difference between coercion and persuasion in dealing with people who see things differently than we do.

Doubts! We all have them. We don’t talk about them much, because the conventional wisdom is that giving voice to doubts only separates us from God. But is that true? Do we really have the power to stop doubting, or only the power to pretend we do? A recent article on doubt and spirituality spur Brad and Wayne into a conversation about dealing with our doubts and the reality that our doubts need not cut off our life in God, but our honesty about then cam actually be the catalyst for our relationship with him to deepen.

Sipping from their new God Journey mugs (You can click on picture for larger view.), Brad and Wayne discuss the constant preoccupation with issues about regular, corporate gatherings of believers, which many call ‘the church’. Wayne often experiences this in trips he takes, as well as a trend on our Forums as one participant points out. Why is it that such discussions attract so much attention and the more important matter of knowing him and sharing that life with others relationally, sometimes gets lost? Part of thriving in this journey comes from the growing freedom to keep first things first!

A new survey and book about it called UnChristian, reveals how young people today view Christianity, send Brad and Wayne on a conversation about the state of Christianity in the world and the unintended impact it is making on the world today. What does it mean to carry the label ‘Christian’ today, versus what it meant the first time it was used to designate the early believers? And in the face of that reality, how can we reflect the quality and character of Jesus to the people we intersect with every day?

The mailbag was full this week, and Brad and Wayne kick-off with some wonderful insights by fellow free-rangers, before turning to am unbelievable announcement from one of America’s flagship congregations. After 30 years and millions of dollars sunk into their seeker-sensitive model, Willow Creek, outside of Chicago, admitted last week that there is no correlation between participation in their expensive programs and someone’s personal growth in Christ. Watch them explain it all here. You would think that would make them reconsider whether human systems could ever replicate the life of Jesus in the world. Think again! That’s what they’re going to do!

One of the sad legacies of Christianity over the centuries has been on our ongoing passion for putting conformity above friendships. The result is a wake of divide and broken friendships between brothers and sisters who once walked together in close fellowship. How can this be especially in light of the fact that we’ve been given the ministry of reconciliation? This week Brad and Wayne discuss the problem, the process of reconciliation, and having a heart for it as we watch how God sorts out our relationships with others.

Following up their recent podcasts on freedom, Brad and Wayne tackle a question as to why they think people are afraid of freedom. They cover the nature of true freedom as the New Testament speaks of it and the misunderstanding of freedom that can turn it into a trap of the flesh instead of a joy in the Spirit. Only out of our growing relationship in trust that this Father of all loves us completely can we really find what true freedom is all about.

Wayne’s recent trip to the East Coast and email responses to the recent podcast on freedom, lure him and Brad back into a discussion of freedom and the difference between the Old and New Covenants. Have we failed to appreciate what Jesus accomplished through his life and death that traded the old commands of performance, into the freedom to know the richness of his love and live in it?

Many have asked Wayne and Brad how they reconcile the seeming disparity between the God of the Old Testament who acted at times with wrath and destruction and his presentation in the New Testament as the loving ‘Abba’ Father. Was Jesus really the exact representation of the Father, or were they playing some cosmic version of good cop/bad cop? Tackling that question requires that we probe the whole of Scripture for a consistent and coherent view of the God of the universe that contains both his extreme measures as he seeks to rescue the world, and his loving and unchanging nature, which we can trust whole-heartedly.

How free is free? Brad and Wayne take on that question in response to some of the conversations Wayne had on a recent trip to Canada and in doing so they uncover why Jesus brought us freedom and why Paul guarded it even when the early believers used their freedom as an excuse for sin. Even for that reason Paul didn’t take away their freedom. He wanted to overturn the lie of religious obligation, which is simply this: God is not worth loving for himself.

A few months ago Wayne had the opportunity to interview one of our God Journey listeners about a recent transformation in his life. Kent Burgess who lives near St. Louis, MO, allowed us to share his story that focused on a specific event a couple of years ago that culminated a long process of God teaching him how to live and walk in grace. Brad and Wayne discuss that process and the fruit of growing trust in a loving Father that allows us to live in the reality of his power, instead of relying on our own. We hope this podcast encourages others who are still in the middle of the chapter, instead of the end of it. If you would like to email Kent you may do so here.

Responses to last week’s podcast on the system behind our religious institutions, and a flare-up on the God Journey Forum invite Brad and Wayne back to a discussion about the power of our conformity systems, how they can easily spring up as a substitute for relational solutions, and the joys and risks of learning to live beyond the power of systems in learning to share this life among God’s family. The process isn’t easy and we’ll always have the choice to fix by by structure instead of taking relationships seriously.

Wayne’s been receiving a number of communications of late from current and former pastor-types who are wrestling with the disparity between the example of the Gospels and Acts and the systems we employ to contain church life today. Their questions, struggles and observations give a unique view behind the system of power and conformity that undermines the very life of Jesus it hopes to foster. They trigger a conversation with Wayne and Brad about the difficult choices these political systems offer people and what our options might be in dealing with them.

God got a big splash in our national media last week, with a survey of spiritual hunger among youth, Michael Vick’s possible conversion as he pleaded guilty to leading a dog fighting ring, Presidential candidate John Edwards’ personal disillusionment with prayer with Mother Theresa’s crisis of faith. These lead Brad and Wayne on a discussion about the difference between trying to serve God as a principle, and engaging God as a real, knowable presence in our lives. When our religious obligations fail us, it’s time to look beyond them and our own agenda to know God as he really is.

Wayne introduces Brad to John Langford, a good friend of Wayne’s who is originally from South Africa and is now living in the southern part of England. Wayne was with John earlier this summer in England and at the festival in Ireland where they taped a bit of their conversation. John’s story is a fascinating journey of hungering for God’s reality and following that passion outside of the conventional human ways of trying to produce God’s work. He and his wife Jenny (pictured at left) have found their way into a free life of responding to Father’s leading. John hosts two websites, one to encourage people on this relational journey called HisLife and a new one called SonSeeker, to provide a resource for those who are just beginning to contemplate whether not the life of Jesus is for them.

A dropped cell phone into Shaver Lake and email from our listeners about the recent podcasts on how to live in love with others sparks a conversation about learning to live in what Eugene Peterson called in The Message, the ‘unforced rhythms of grace’. Religious views of God create the illusion that God is a miser, only doling out little bits of blessing in response to our most ardent efforts. Jesus dispelled that notion and showed us that his Father is a generous God who wants to set us at ease by teaching us how to participate in his work each day. Free from trying to manipulate him to our desires, we can then live at peace in his.

Following up last week’s podcast, Brad and Wayne continue a discussion about how Jesus’ love takes shape in us and how that love, better than anything else, makes God known in our world. They read through part of the Sermon on the Mount from Luke 6:26-38 in The Message and discuss the practical ways that we can live generously with others when we know how the Father lives generously with us. Their discussion makes clear why Christianity cannot be reduced to a set of propositions or a list of principles. Instead it must be a real connection with the Father himself through the Son.

Wayne’s experiences in Canada and his continuing ruminations on seeing the Body of Christ as “Friends, and Friends of Friends” opens a conversation with Brad about how God’s family can share the life of God together. Friendships allow the weakest among the family to get the help and love they need, without letting everyone else become victims of the most aggressive person in the room. Instead of needing someone to be in control, friendships operate in a very different reality. They also respond to some emails about others seeking to find connections with other believers in their own locale.

Wayne and Brad discuss Wayne’s recent trip to Ireland where a number of believers on this journey from all over the world gathered for a week of sharing life together. Without any programs, agendas or meetings they discovered how deep fellowship could go in simple picnics, barbecues and hanging out together over a week’s time. They discovered how God is knitting together his family simply by networking friends and friends of friends. You’ll also hear comments from others who were there including some of those whose stories we’ve previously shared on The God Journey, including Lynette Woods (New Zealand), Jack Gerry (Maine, US), Stephan Vosloo (South Africa), Kevin Smith (Australia), David Fredrickson (California, US), and David Rice (Ireland). That last link tells the story of the community from Dublin who hosted this festival. You might want to go back and listen to some of their stories again and how God is inviting people all over the world into the freedom and reality of life in him!

Perhaps the best place to view life in this world is from the edge of eternity, at least that has been Brad and Wayne’s experience over the past week. As they play catch-up after not seeing each other for almost a month (with Wayne’s trip to Europe and upon his return, Brad’s to Nashville) they find out that their experiences held some real similarities in letting them see life from the edge of eternity where the air seems a bit clearer and we can more easily embrace that which Father values.

If you’ve read Custom and Command you already know Stan Firth. If not, you’re in for a treat. Stan is a dear Scottish brother, a former pastor who found God leading him on a most unexpected journey and to insights that have encouraged people around the world to follow God’s leading rather than fit into the well-intentioned, though not necessarily biblical, demands of others. He’s become a good friend of Wayne’s and they sat down for some conversation during Wayne’s recent trip to Europe. If you’d like to order his book, you may do so at lulu.com or download a PDF version here.

A really weird Hollywood news story put Brad’s head in an interesting place about our tendency to beg mercy for ourselves, but demand justice for others. Is that the best way for us to grasp what Jesus is doing among us? At the beginning of his ministry Jesus warned people to, “Go and learn what this means: “I desire mercy, not sacrifice.” To view sin and love others as Jesus did, we may all need our own pharisectomy!

A crisis in the Cummings household takes Brand and Wayne on a conversation about the interplay between freedom and risk and experiencing the love and life of the Lord. Often in our attempts to protect ourselves or others from potential pain our fears drive us to try to control situations in such a way that we miss the larger work that only freedom and growing trust allows.

A break from all the recent guests gives Brad and Wayne a chance to catch up on some listener email and questions on the forum. They find themselves talking about the difficulty of dealing with people who bring agendas to gatherings of the family, facilitating change in existing groups of believers, helping people with limited opportunities to find fellowship, and adding more feminine voices to the podcast.

After the previous podcast, Wayne and Brad’s conversation with Kevin Smith continued, so they hit the ‘record’ button and taped some more about appreciating the different ways God leads people through life. Their ongoing conversation ranged from leadership issues to how Father redeems our mistakes and how he calls us to live in the moment by his provision. You’ll see that trusting in Jesus is not just a theological abstract, but an active way to live in the world.

Kevin Smith, a long-time friend of Wayne’s and a dear brother on this journey, joins Wayne and Brad to share some of the lessons he has learned on his journey beyond organized religion. A former Baptist minister, Kevin was part of a congregation that were led together to find God’s reality outside of the system of religious obligation. You’ll see in Kevin’s life that trusting Jesus is not a passive fatalism, but an active way to live every day. Our friendship with him grows, as does our trust, as we take the risk of stepping out to do whatever what we think he asks of us. Kevin and his wife Val are on a round-the-world trip that included 5 days in Southern Cal. You can email him here.

It’s not an easy day at the ol’ God Journey! Playing off a story Wayne heard on his recent Alaskan adventure about a man being overrun by a grizzly bear while jogging in the woods, he and Brad talk about some rough patches in their own journeys. What do you do in those seasons when life deals you some brutal blows? How do we continue to live in grace through those times and extend that grace to others when we least feel like it.

Brad and Wayne introduce The God Journey audience to William ‘Paul’ Young, the author of The Shack. Don’t worry. There are no plot spoilers here, so it’s safe to listen if you haven’t read the book. They explore Paul’s unique spiritual journey, beginning among a technologically stone-aged tribal people in what is now West Papua and progressed through professional ministry to the life he lives today. You’ll find out what inspired him to write The Shack, and more about the process that involved Brad and Wayne in getting it into print.

Brad and Wayne’s guest from last week, Bob Stamps, hangs around to continue their dialog about the power of sharing the Lord’s table as an actual experience with the Risen Christ and as a shared meal by his family. They also talk about sin and temptation and how we live in the arms of mercy as God redeems and transforms those things that sin has twisted in us. They give specific attention to sexual brokenness in this context and Jesus’ words about lust in the Sermon on the Mount.

One of Wayne’s closest life-long friends and a man who has helped shape many of Wayne’s views about God’s grace and the power of relational community, Bob Stamps, a retired pastor, joins Brad and Wayne for a wide-ranging discussion on prayer, the Lord’s table, the joy of relational community, living in the joy God gives as well as the purpose he’s called us to, and better ways to impact the world with the reality of God’s life.

Letters from listeners, some encouraging and some not so much, take Brad and Wayne on a wide-ranging discussion about leadership, church planting, institutional expressions of body life and our ongoing choice to either let Jesus lead in the building of his church, or try to take it over for ourselves. What we experience in church life supplements our relationship with him, it would never seek to supplant it. They end with a humorous taped voice mail of a parishoner to his pastor about a concern. We borrowed it from Ship of Fools.com.

Starting with the massacre at Virginia Tech and following up with a listener’s question from their recent podcast on Purity Balls, Brad and Wayne discuss rites of passage for believing children and the current movement to make Ten Commandments Day a national holiday. The danger of religion is that it always preys on our best intentions to make us act in ways that turn out to be counterproductive even to what we hope they’ll produce.

A new series on <a href="http://dsc.discovery.com/convergence/planet-earth/planet-earth.html">The Discovery Channel</a> and a growing national trend of parents throwing ‘Purity Balls’ for their pre-teen and early teen-aged daughters provide the fodder for Brad and Wayne to discuss how living out of our fears can produce exactly the opposite of what we desire. Until we see our life in Christ as one big yes, instead of saying no a thousand times a day, we’ll never know what it means to be transformed by his glory.

The convergence of two letters from listeners, both describing desperate situations, lead Brad and Wayne into a discussion about walking out a relationship of love with the Father in the face of unanswered questions and uncertain futures. A mother deals with a terminal disease in two of her young children and a wife deals with the loss of her beloved husband and the guilt that she might not have done enough to earn God’s healing for him. How can we embrace the life of the Lord each day in the valley of the shadow of death?

Responding to reader feedback from their previous podcast, Brad and Wayne continue their discussion on the power and place of Scripture in the life of people on the God journey. They cover the debates about inerrancy, textual criticism and the leading of the Spirit versus the objective truth of the Bible. They also share the place the Bible holds in their own relationship with God and their spiritual journeys.

Where do the Scriptures fit in the life of the believer? We all know the religious practice of disciplined reading schedules and following the book as if it were the owner’s manual for the Christian life, but is that enough? Wayne and Brad finally get the chance to discuss a topic they’ve had on their list for some time and that has already been discussed in two topics on The God Journey Forum.

Unfortunately the culture war issues of our day force us into endless arguements about rules, when we’d be far more effective talking about relationship with God himself. Wayne’s recent trip to Nashville and Washington, DC to negotiate some of the hottest ‘culture war’ issues and current events in the media, hatch a discussion with Brad about morality, culture, and our perspectives as God’s people influencing others on the earth. They also work through an article published in their local paper entilted Religion vs. Spirituality that contains many of the misunderstandings people have about those who do not attend Sunday morning establishments.

A fascinating new book, The Starfish and the Spider: The Unstoppable Power of Leaderless Organizations, highlights a new phenomenon in business and politics that the world is only now recognizing—the power and reslience of decentralized communities. Brad and Wayne look at the parallels between this book and how the early church functioned as it emerged in loosely-knit communities, rather than rigid institutions to bear the life of Jesus to a broken world. If you add the personal headship of Jesus to these decentralized communities, it’s no wonder those early believes had as much impact as they did. This book also looks at leadership in a way that closely resembles what Jesus and the early church taught about the nature of leadership in Father’s family.

The process of ‘church’ history has seemingly split Jesus’ followers into increasingly smaller camps of believers—divided by ethnicity, social status, theological issues and personal preferences as to worship styles or teaching content. How does this square with the Father’s stated purpose of summing up the end of the age by bringing all things together under one Head, even Christ? Brad and Wayne take a look at this paradox and discuss how we can be part of the process that brings the family together in love, rather than part of the process of hacking it up into ever smaller bits.

Shame and condemnation resulting from our struggles and failures are what keep many from finding a confident place of relationship with the God who is pure and holy. The good news is that the cross has resolved our sin as well as our shame, so that we can freely be in his presence even in the midst of our struggles and failures. Unfortunately religion does not free people from shame, but only increases it as it seeks to manipulate people’s performance. Following up on the recent podcast about sin, Wayne and Brad discuss the power of shame and how we can live free of it in our life with him.

It looks like God swept everything this weekend in American sports. Or did he? Comments by coaches and players and an HBO special called Friends of God: A Road Trip with Alexandra Pelosi give Brad and Wayne fresh chance to consider the messages that evangelicals are giving to the culture about God. The things Christians do and say while reacting to the culture in the shame that religion cultivates only pushes away the very people with whom God has asked us to share his life. Wayne and Brad also react to some surprising responses to last week’s podcast on sin.

What do we do about our struggle with sin under the new covenant? Following up on some conversations Wayne had regarding the cross with some brothers and sisters in Central California over the weekend, he and Brad begin a conversation about sin and how God wants to deal with it. Religion treats sin as a performance issue, demanding people ‘just say no’ and condemning them when they cannot or will not. How did Paul encourage the young believers to deal with sin in the context of the cross? He made it clear that the cross changed everything about the way we view sin in our own lives and how we deal with it. Only by his grace will we find love enough to transform us from such a debilitating disease.

Brad and Wayne respond to a series of questions first posed on The God Journey Forum about prayer and how our participation in it does or does not influence God’s work in the world. Is God’s will predetermined, and if so what good does prayer do? Can our prayers actually change things around us? Obviously there are no easy answers here. The guys share from their own experiences and struggles as they have grown in their understanding of the power of prayer in the life of the believer

One of the great dilemmas for people who are finding fellowship in more relational settings is what to do about those who haven’t learned how to prefer one another in the conversation. Instead of flowing with it they seek to co-opt it to advance their own agenda or try to force others into agreeing with them. At other times it seems people’s unresolved pain expresses itself in abusive treatment of others. Part of the reason people prefer institutions is to have ‘leaders’ who can make the rules and police them to protect others. Without that safeguard, however, the body will need to learn how to speak truth lovingly so that we can all grow up in him, rather than scattering into our own isolated journeys.

Can we become so intense about our spiritual walk that we actually miss what Father is doing in our lives? Brad and Wayne examine that question in light of Jesus’ repeated warnings to his potential followers that unless they could receive his kingdom as a little child, they would not be able to enter in to its reality. How can we become more childlike in our relationship with God and capture the playfulness that seems to be so important to the experience of our life in him? During the podcast Brad refers to the photo at left which was sent to him by a listener . You can click on it (or click here) to see a larger view.

You asked for it! A lof of people responded to our previous podcast on “How Real Is Intimacy?” Many found it incredibly helpful while others found it too vague to help them sort out their own journey. The latter asked Brad and Wayne if they could give more tangibles from their own experience and still avoid the programmed steps or formulas that just don’t work in relationships. Here is their answer, and a request for others to share their experiences either as comments on the blog, or in the The God Journey Forum.