The Mission Driven Mom Podcast

Resources from the Episode:  Mothers of Creation - Provo, Utah - September 26th Episode 11: Mission Driven Story: Jacques Lusseyran I want to tell you about a man named Jacques Lusseyran. He was eight years old when a classmate bumped into him in the middle of a crowded classroom and sent him crashing into the corner of a teacher's desk. His glasses didn't break. The arm of the frames went into the tissue of his right eye. By the time he woke up the next day, he was completely blind. And yet by the end of his life, he would say that every single day he thanked heaven for making him blind. This week's episode is his story. Jacques went on to become a leader of the French Resistance during World War II, eventually leading a movement of more than 600 young men and women. He was arrested, interrogated, and sent to Buchenwald. He was one of 30 survivors from a transport of 2,000 prisoners. What makes his story so extraordinary is not just what he survived. It's what he discovered. AI-GENERATED TRANSCRIPT Episode 161: Jacques Lusseyran — Choosing to Be a Creator Introduction AUDREY: Welcome back to the podcast. Today I have the honor of telling you the story of Jacques Lusseyran. He was a French Resistance fighter during World War II, but his story is so much more than that, as I’m sure you’re going to find out. Years ago I did a longer, more thorough podcast on his life, showing how he lived the seven laws of life mission — you can go listen to that one too if you’d like. But today I want to share some of the key highlights of his life with a very specific lens in mind. I’m going to focus on a few principles that we’ll be diving deep into this fall at our Mission Driven Mom celebration for our Mothers of Creation. Through Jacques’s experiences, I want to help you see how powerful it is when we choose not to be a victim but to be a creator instead — regardless of what life throws at us. And I want you to see what vision really is, and how it empowers us to navigate the most difficult moments of our lives. AUDREY: I’m going to begin by telling you his story, and while I do, I want you to keep some principles in mind — the ones we’ll focus on at the celebration this year. Number one: when we respond to life as a victim of circumstances, we get frustrated, stuck, and lose our way. Two: a victim mindset robs our vision and makes us blind. Three: we can choose to be a creator regardless of circumstances. Four: responding to life as a creator causes us to feel liberated, clear, and even joyful. And five: our choice to live in a creator orientation blesses not just us, but those around us — and sometimes our whole community and beyond. When I finish Jacques’s story, I’ll remind us of those principles again and encourage you to take some time this week to ponder them in your own life. Losing His Sight AUDREY: So here we go. On a beautiful May morning in 1932, little Jacques was at school as usual. At ten o’clock the children jumped up, all of them excited to get outside, running all over the classroom. As Jacques moved toward the front of the room, a student darted past and hit him, causing him to fall into the corner of the teacher’s desk. His new glasses were made of shatterproof glass, so they didn’t break — instead, the arm of the spectacles drove into the tissue of his right eye, and he lost consciousness for the next twenty-four hours. During that time, doctors discovered that his right eye was completely destroyed and would have to be removed, and that his left retina had been so badly torn that by the time he woke up the next day, his whole life had changed. At the tender age of eight years old, he would be blind for life. AUDREY: Physically he recovered quickly. Within a month he was walking again; the next month he was learning Braille; and by the third month he was running and playing on the playground with the other children. But overcoming his blindness was a different challenge. He said this: “It was a great surprise to me to find myself blind, and being blind was not at all as I had imagined it. Nor was it as the people around me seemed to think. They told me that to be blind meant not to see, and for a time I still wanted to use my eyes. I looked in the direction where I was in the habit of seeing before the accident, and there was anguish, a lack, something like a void, which filled me with what grown-ups call despair. AUDREY: “Finally, one day I realized I was looking the wrong way. I could still see — in myself. I could still picture myself in the Champ de Mars. I knew the garden well: its ponds, its railings, its iron chairs. Naturally, I wanted to see them again, but I couldn’t. At this point some instinct — I was almost about to say a hand laid on me — made me change course. I began to look more closely, not at the things outside but at a world closer to myself, from an inner place, from further inside. Instead of clinging to the movement of sight toward the world outside, the substance of the universe drew together, redefined itself, and formed itself anew. I was aware of a radiance emanating from a place I knew nothing about. I felt an indescribable relief, and a happiness so great it almost made me laugh. Confidence and gratitude came like a prayer that had been answered. I found light and joy at the very same moment.” AUDREY: This experience relieved him of his initial despair. It enabled him to overcome the fear of blindness and gave him a way forward. Yet learning to navigate the other aspects of his blindness took time. One important tool he slowly discovered was that his thoughts and emotional choices had a profound impact on his ability to “see” and to function well as a blind person. Fear, Not Blindness AUDREY: As Jacques made his way through this new world, he eventually learned that it was actually fear — not the loss of sight — that made him truly blind. This is what he said about it: “Fear made me blind. Anger and impatience had the same effect, throwing everything into confusion. The minute before, I knew just where everything in the room was; but if I got angry, things got angrier than I was. When I was playing with my small companions, if I suddenly grew anxious to win, to be first at all costs, then all at once I could see nothing. I could no longer afford to be jealous or unfriendly, because the moment I was, a bandage came down over my eyes. But when I was happy and serene, when I approached people with confidence and thought well of them, I was rewarded with light.” AUDREY: In this way, Jacques gained a mastery over himself rarely achieved, especially in a child. He discovered that he had to rein in his natural tendencies toward anger, pettiness, unkindness, and jealousy. The temptation to give in to self-pity and victimhood was strong, but Jacques began to realize that when he chose to live according to true principles and governed his heart and mind instead, his ability to function well and happily in the world was restored. This insight was revolutionary for him. AUDREY: This process helped him grow into a man he could not otherwise have been. Through daily practice, he developed a high level of command over himself, along with an enhanced ability to love others more fully. This generated inner peace and self-confidence and endeared him to everyone who knew him. The character he built by living these principles spilled over into other areas of his life, and his education became a great success story. Through his persistence in learning Braille and studying hard, he was able to remain in the classroom alongside sighted students — can you imagine? — eventually winning first place in his class. The Coming of War AUDREY: Although Jacques had already faced and overcome extremely difficult challenges, another great crisis came into his life during his high school years: the outbreak of World War II. Fortunately, he had developed immense emotional, mental, and spiritual maturity in his younger years, and now it served him well. Already a very conscientious man, the war awakened in him a strong desire to know, to understand, to make sense of what was happening. For Jacques and his friends, the war was a call to action. They dug deeper into their studies and read the greatest thinkers, searching for answers. AUDREY: This is what he said about that time: “We wanted to learn how to live, and that was a much more serious matter. And we wanted to learn fast, because we felt that the next day it would surely be too late. There were signs of death on land and in the air, from the Spanish War to the frontiers of Russia — not just signs, but battles to the death. The feeling rumbled inside us, pressing to come out into the open: unless we were up to making a better world than our elders had made, the orgy of stupidity and killing would go on until the end of the world. I sat up late at night. I had thrown myself furiously into the study of philosophy. I wanted to understand it all, and I felt it was urgent. I don’t know exactly why, but it seemed to me that such a chance would not come again — that I was going to be snatched away to more worldly responsibilities. All the ideas of men who had dedicated themselves to thought found their way into my head for the first time, from Pythagoras to Bergson, from Plato to Freud. I examined them as closely as I could.” AUDREY: By the following spring, France had been occupied by the Germans. Of this time, Jacques wrote, “In me was a pack of fears and desires, intentions and irritations, which had had me clenched in a tight fist for weeks.” Then he learned that one of his closest friends had been arrested. Three days later, he contracted measles. He felt the illness was as much a moral lesson as a physical one. Of the change that took place in him as a result of the sickness, he said: “This was no microbe or virus making its way in me. It was a resolve. It took me over from head to foot like a conquered land. I could not resist it, for it had taken the wheel. It was driving me to definite destinations I had not thought about before it came. This resolve gave me orders, telling me first of all that I must say nothing to my family. I must have a meeting with two of my comrades — I already knew who they were. Later I would have to get in touch with about ten more. The list was already made up. My only haste was to get my body well again, to risk it all in the great adventure. On the first day of convalescence, I said to myself aloud in my room: ‘The occupation is my sickness.’” Forming the Resistance AUDREY: As soon as Jacques was well, he called his friends together and formed a resistance movement, later named the Volunteers of Liberty, which eventually involved more than six hundred young men and women. About their resolve to do whatever was necessary to fight for truth, he had this to say: “Let people be silent if they were able to go on living without speaking out. We were incapable of it. For our part, we knew that Nazism threatened the whole of humanity, that it was an absolute evil, and we were going to publish its evil all around us.” AUDREY: To lead this incredible group of young people, he leaned not only on the strength of character he had forged through his education and hard work, but heavily on God to guide him. At their very first meeting, he quickly learned how desperately he needed help and guidance. He said this: “At the beginning of May I had adopted an ascetic way of life. Every day, including Sunday, I got up at half past four. The first thing I did was to kneel down and pray: ‘My God, give me the strength to keep my promises. Since I made them in a good cause, they are yours to keep as well as mine. Now twenty young men — tomorrow there may be a hundred — are waiting for my orders. Tell me what orders to give them. By myself I know how to do almost nothing, but if you will it, I am capable of almost everything. Most of all, give me prudence.’” AUDREY: Amazingly, even in the midst of great danger, Jacques felt an immense amount of personal meaning and joy. Of this he said, “I was surprised when I awoke in the morning, feeling a sense of purpose strong and entirely new to me. I was madly happy to be doing this work.” AUDREY: Early on, it was decided that Jacques would be the sole screener for potential recruits. Here again, his blindness came to his aid. Because of the loss of sight, his other senses were heightened, and through years of practice he had learned to listen carefully to body language, to choice of words, and to intonation of speech. More importantly, he had a profound intuition about people. He said, “The consciences of my companions seemed to be wide open before me, and all I needed to do was read them.” His accuracy was nearly perfect. Although he interviewed over a thousand individuals for the six hundred members of his resistance group, only one ever betrayed them. Betrayal and Buchenwald AUDREY: When that betrayal came, several of them were arrested. After a long and difficult interrogation — accompanied by many miracles that kept Jacques alive — he spent several months in prison. Finally, he and a few of his friends were transported to Buchenwald concentration camp. In the beginning he was able to take comfort in having a few friends close to him. But when they were all shipped to other camps and he was left completely alone, fear took over. He said, “Fear is the real name of despair.” AUDREY: He also said: “In March I had lost all my friends. They had all gone away. A small child was reborn in me, looking everywhere for his mother and not finding her. I was very much afraid of the others, and even of myself, since I no longer knew how to defend myself. One day out of two, people were stealing my bread and my soup. I grew so weak that when I touched cold water, my fingers burned as if they were on fire. AUDREY: “For those unfit for labor like me, they had another system: the Invalid Block. It was a barracks like the others. The only difference was that they had crowded in fifteen hundred men instead of the three hundred that was average for the other blocks, and they had cut the food rations in half. As a result, people were dying there at a pace that made it impossible to keep any count. It was a greater surprise to fall over the living than the dead. For days and nights I didn’t walk around — I crawled. I made an opening for myself in the mass of flesh. My hands traveled from a stumbled leg to a dead body, from a body to a wound. I could no longer hear anything for the groaning all around me.” AUDREY: These vile conditions, compounded by the fear and despair Jacques felt, soon took their toll, and he became very ill. Pleurisy led to dysentery, then to an infection in both ears that left him deaf for two weeks, then to erysipelas, then to complications from blood poisoning. Through it all, Jacques drew closer to God and nurtured his soul. Light in the Darkness AUDREY: When he finally left the camp hospital, skin and bones, he said: “I was so happy to be alive, and free to help the others. I could try to show other people how to go about holding on to life. I could turn toward them the flow of light and joy that had grown so abundant in me. Hundreds of people confided in me. The remarkable thing was that listening to the fears of others had ended by freeing me almost completely from anxiety. I had become cheerful, and was cheerful almost all the time. That helped me, naturally, but it also helped the others. They had made such a habit of watching for the coming of the little blind Frenchman — with my happy face and my reassuring words, delivered in a loud voice, and with the news I gave out — that on days when there was no news, they had me visit them just the same.” AUDREY: By the time he was released, he was one of only thirty survivors out of his original transport group of two thousand prisoners. After the war, he moved to the United States and became a husband, a father, and a university professor. Surprisingly, he always attributed his ability to accomplish these amazing feats to his blindness. That is why, through all the challenges and joys of his life, he could honestly say that “every day I have to thank heaven for making me blind.” Closing Thoughts and Challenge AUDREY: His story is absolutely incredible — it often brings me to tears. He is definitely one of my heroes. I know he wasn’t a perfect man; no one is. But could you see those principles of creation at play in his life? Let me remind us all what they are. Number one: when we respond to life as a victim of circumstances, we get frustrated, stuck, and lose our way — like Jacques did when he first gave in to his blindness. Two: a victim mindset robs our vision and makes us blind, just as it did to him. Three: we can choose to be a creator regardless of circumstances, just like he did. Four: responding to life as a creator causes us to feel liberated, clear, and even joyful. And five: our choice to live in a creator orientation blesses not just us, but those around us — and sometimes our whole community and beyond. AUDREY: So with Jacques’s story in mind and these principles in front of us, I want to challenge all of us one more time to consider them — not just in his life, but in our own. I’d love for you to return to this video and put your insights in the comments below. Where do you sometimes struggle with being a victim to your problems and circumstances? When was a time you overcame the victim mindset and turned things around with your own creative abilities? And what can you do to be more of a creator, rather than a victim, in your own life? AUDREY: When things get hard, think of Jacques and all he came through. Consider how different his life could have been if he had chosen to give up and be the victim — how unhappy he would have been, and all the lives he would never have blessed. But he chose to be a creator, and he set a beautiful example for us. Showing up in life as a creator blesses you and everyone around you. It can be a harder path, but it’s definitely a better one. AUDREY: If you’re ready to better understand the difference between victims and creators — how you might be showing up as a victim without even realizing it — and if you want to gain tools and learn principles that can get you out of the problems and challenges keeping you stuck, and onto a road toward a life more full of meaning, joy, and vision, I want you to consider joining us this fall in Utah for an all-day training on these concepts. There’s a link in the description, and you can learn more about the conference at themissiondrivenmom.com. I hope to see you there. Thanks for joining me today, and I’ll see you next time.

Resources from the Episode:  Mothers of Creation - Provo, Utah - September 26th EP 159 You're probably not a victim. Except you kind of are.  Here is something I need you to know before you watch Frozen again. The moment everyone cheers. Elsa in her ice castle, belting "Let It Go," finally free, finally herself. That moment is not the triumph we think it is. That moment is Elsa playing the victim. Lindsey Wright is back on the podcast this week, and she has done something I think is truly brilliant. She took the six victim types we've been studying and matched each one to a Disney character. The result is one of the most clarifying conversations we've ever recorded. AI-GENERATED TRANSCRIPT Introduction AUDREY: Welcome back to the podcast. I’m Audrey Rindlisbacher, author of The Mission Driven Life and founder of The Mission Driven Mom. So grateful to have you with us today. I want to ask you a question. If every Disney movie only exists because there’s a problem, what if those beloved stories are actually teaching us how to be victims? We’re going to talk about that today. AUDREY: This is Lindsey Wright who’s with me today. We recently did a podcast where we talked about victim types — all six of them. We broke them down, gave you some detail on a couple so you could really begin to understand how they work and what they are. We talked about how when we can see ourselves in these victim types, it helps us identify the fact that we’re acting like a victim, and then we can start to work on a way out. Lindsey mentioned this a couple of different times: naming things can be so incredibly helpful. It helps us better understand what it is that we’re doing and why we’re doing it. For me, that’s been a catalyst for change, because I don’t want to be the dummy or the avoider or the quitter — but how do I be different? Lindsey has built out a beautiful framework for that which she teaches inside our Mothers of Creation community. If you haven’t listened to our previous episode, we encourage you to go back and listen, but you can also start here and go back afterward. Today we’re going to dive deeper into the victim types by talking about Disney movies — some core stories that we’re probably all very familiar with. AUDREY: Before we do that, Lindsey, as you were building this out, why did you head toward these Disney stories? What tipped you off to the idea that these characters could help illustrate the victim types? Why Disney? LINDSEY: First of all, I think because Disney is so much a part of the culture. I grew up with Little Mermaid, Aladdin, Beauty and the Beast — we had never seen movies like that before. It was just part of my growing up. And Disney has long been associated with family. I felt like it was something we could all understand quickly, something that would help make these abstract ideas a little more concrete. LINDSEY: Everything we watch, everything we listen to, everything we read is trying to teach us something or convince us of something. Are we aware of the lessons we’re receiving? I thought if I could give people an image — something familiar — that would be really helpful as we teach these different victim types. And once I started going, I realized a movie is not a movie unless it has some drama. That’s why we watch it. There’s a problem, characters react to it, and we would not enjoy the movie if the characters always stayed in the drama. What we want to see is transformation. So it’s a rich resource — you see not only the victim types, but how each character gets out of them. I’ve really tried to stay away from the villains because I want us to see that these victim types are all of us. We embody all of them, some more than others. But that also means that all of us have the tools to get out of them. The Avoider: Elsa (Frozen) AUDREY: Let’s start with the avoider. Who did you choose for this one? LINDSEY: I’m not trying to destroy Disney movies, but the character I chose for the avoider is Elsa. If you watch just a clip of ‘Let It Go,’ you can see all of the things we’ve connected to this victim type. She’s afraid. She doesn’t want to lose control. She fears the emotional discomfort of reaching out to people, so she avoids it all. She builds her ice castle in the mountains, decides she’s going to be by herself. She doesn’t trust herself. She doesn’t think anything is going to change or get better. She can’t face it. She’s overwhelmed. She’s stuck. LINDSEY: And in the theater, that moment — that ‘Let It Go’ song — is meant to be a girl-power high point. You go, Elsa. You show them. The singing is beautiful, she’s being herself. And yet — actually, she’s being a victim. We know this because her reaction causes problems. What we see at the end of the movie is that she has to learn something about herself. She has to learn that love is more powerful than fear. That relationships are more valuable than anything she could do by herself. There’s something she has to learn about who she is — and that is a pattern I’ve noticed over and over as I’ve connected these victim types to Disney characters. AUDREY: What’s so interesting is that Elsa is the hero. She’s the one with superpowers. Her sister Anna is the one who’s ‘normal’ — and yet Anna is the one problem-solving, taking risks, facing fears, doing hard things. Elsa just sits in her castle and avoids and blames, while Anna is actively fixing things. Elsa technically has more power than her sister, who is the one making things happen. Which tells us a lot about what we’re doing when we play the victim. We’re snuffing out our own power. AUDREY: Why do you see Elsa as the avoider rather than the quitter? LINDSEY: She’s an avoider because she doesn’t even engage at all. The quitter engages and then it gets too hard, and so they quit. Elsa is just ‘no, I’m not going to have anything to do with it.’ She’s been avoiding all the way along — from the very beginning, putting the gloves on her hands — and then she does the ultimate act of avoidance. Her parents were teaching her some of those behaviors, and she just plays them out as she gets older and the consequences get bigger. AUDREY: One other thought: we mentioned last time that this is built around the drama triangle that Stephen Karpman taught — the simple triangle where, when we’re in problem stories, there’s always a victim, a rescuer, and a persecutor. What we didn’t mention is that the whole reason the drama triangle exists is because everyone wants the victim role. They’re all vying to be seen as the victim. Even persecutors don’t just show up wanting to be persecutors — they want to be seen as victims too. And one of the most important things to understand about this is that when we play the victim, we actually show up to others as a persecutor. LINDSEY: Exactly. Elsa feels like a persecutor to the people around her. She’s playing the victim, but when others try to empower and encourage her to take action, she lashes out like a persecutor. And it shows how subtle some of these victim orientations can be. She feels like she’s doing the right thing. The avoider feels like they’re doing something — but they’re reacting, making their own little plans in their own little world, convinced they’ll figure it all out alone. AUDREY: So how does Elsa’s story become untangled? Because the most powerful movies and stories speak to us because of the transformation of a character — and that’s who we all are, characters in our own story wanting transformation. LINDSEY: What we’re waiting for is when is she going to wake up and realize how powerful she is, that she’s a creator, that she can do it. And as soon as the character sees it, it sparks something in us and makes us come to life because we identify with them. Maybe I’m a creator. Maybe I’m powerful. Maybe I can do things I didn’t think I could do. LINDSEY: The truth the avoider needs to understand is that right now is what I can control. Elsa learns that fear is hard to control — but love? You can control that. We’re in control when we’re acting in love toward ourselves and toward other people. That’s the shift she makes. What I want right now is this relationship with my sister. What I want right now is to have love guiding me instead of fear. That’s what she needed, and that’s what the people around her needed. The Quitter: Simba (The Lion King) AUDREY: Let’s move on to the quitter. Who did you choose? LINDSEY: The character I chose for the quitter is Simba from The Lion King. The quitter starts going, but then it gets really hard and they stop. We see Simba’s dad showing him the kingdom — he’s so excited, ‘I just can’t wait to be king.’ And then his dad is murdered. His uncle tells him to run, that everyone will hate him, that he has to get out. And so he quits. Hakuna Matata. Goes off and lives this carefree life. LINDSEY: But it’s not as his real self. His power and potential are snuffed out. It’s a mistaken, distorted identity. He’s avoiding the pain of who he’s actually supposed to become by abandoning the path. AUDREY: And then — Rafiki. That moment in the movie. LINDSEY: Yes. We’re right back to identity. Simba has to remember who he is. He is the son of a king. He is the rightful king. He has to take responsibility — and he hasn’t been, wandering around doing Hakuna Matata. He has to remember that identity and go back to claim his spot. That’s why we love the ending. He becomes who he was meant to be, reaches his potential. LINDSEY: The tool for the quitter is that they can practice the principles, rely on the truth they know, and patiently wait. Because principles work. Baby steps. Principles always work. I know that if I take responsibility, remember who I am, work my way back, renegotiate the relationships that were damaged — those baby steps will get me back to where I need to be. And Simba does that. It’s so powerful to watch. The Remaining Victim Types: A Quick Overview AUDREY: Give us just a little context on the Disney characters you chose for the rest of the victim types. LINDSEY: For the martyr, this was a tricky one I’m still working on. We have Mother Gothel from Tangled. I was hesitant to use her because she’s the villain — and I want us to see that victim types aren’t villains, they’re just our natural tendencies. But she’s very much ‘look at all the things I do for you, Rapunzel, and you’re not grateful, I’ve suffered and sacrificed everything for you.’ I’m still working on some other ideas for that one. LINDSEY: For the doormat, I chose Cinderella. She’s loving and kindhearted, but she’s afraid of conflict. She waits to be rescued. She doesn’t want to stand up for herself. But by the end of the movie, she learns her worth — that she’s worthy and valuable, that she can be assertive and have boundaries. That’s why we love the ending. She starts out as a doormat. People walk all over her and she allows it. LINDSEY: The dummy is a work in progress — I’ve been talking to my kids about it all day. The dummy claims they cannot solve their problems. They want somebody to rescue them or just make it go away. The character we landed on is Kuzco from The Emperor’s New Groove — the emperor who turns into a llama. He doesn’t want to accept responsibility and claims he doesn’t know how to solve things. And as he’s doing that, he’s creating more and more problems. He has to learn something fascinating: that people don’t actually like him. He has to have an identity shift in how he sees himself in relationship to others. He sees himself as superior — it’s all ego. But other people are resources. We have to be willing to ask for help and learn how to rely on people in the right way. LINDSEY: The last one is the chameleon, and I chose the Genie from Aladdin. He’s just whatever you need him to be — he’s forgotten who he really is. And Aladdin is almost the same — he shows up as someone completely different so that Jasmine will like him, afraid to expose his real identity. But that’s not what Jasmine liked. And in the end, it’s not what saves him either. It’s understanding who he actually is, and how his real strengths are exactly what’s needed to solve the problem. Closing Thoughts and Challenge AUDREY: Of course, we watch these stories because we’re waiting for the transformation — and that’s what Lindsey and I are passionate about in this work. This framework has changed everything for us. The ability to self-identify when we’re playing a victim role means we might still do it for a bit, but we can often catch ourselves. We have common language in our homes. Our families can help catch us. Every bit of information we glean around this empowers us to be different, to work our way out of the drama cycle and be creators instead. AUDREY: This is what we’re doing all year inside our Mothers of Creation community. We have our in-person event in the fall — September 26th in Provo, Utah. We’re going to spend the whole day talking about problem stories and victim types, reframing those stories, moving out of victimhood into a creator orientation, building creator declarations, and so much more. And the community is open now — as soon as you sign up for the event, you get instant access to Lindsey’s trainings and everything we’ve been building together. AUDREY: Our challenge to you today: as you watch Disney movies or any movie, look for a victim type. Watch how the character plays into it, what problems it causes, and how they come across as a persecutor to the people around them. Then watch how the transformation happens — when their identity shifts, when they come to see that they truly are a creator, when they learn the truth about who they are and what they’re capable of, and become powerful once again. AUDREY: Thanks for joining us today. If this is of interest to you and you want to know more, we would love to see you in the community. And we would love to meet you in person this fall. Visit themissiondrivenmom.com and sign up for the Mothers of Creation Conference. Thank you so much for being here. We hope this is helpful, valuable, and motivating for you — and we will see you next time.  

Resources from the Episode:  Mothers of Creation - Provo, Utah - September 26th David Emerald's book, Three Vital Questions MDM Academy     Most of us would never describe ourselves as victims. And yet — if someone asked you where you feel resentful, or stuck, or like things just keep happening to you no matter what you do — you'd probably have an answer pretty quickly. That's what this week's episode is about. Lindsay Wright is back, and she's walking us through something called the victim types — six different ways that we show up in a victim orientation without ever realizing that's what we're doing. Not because we're weak or broken, but because these patterns were useful once. They helped us manage fear, avoid pain, survive hard seasons. The problem is they also keep us stuck.     AI-GENERATED TRANSCRIPT   Introduction and Context AUDREY: Welcome back to the podcast. I’m Audrey Rindlisbacher, author of The Mission Driven Life and founder of the Mission Driven Mom. I’m so excited for you to join me today as I have a great conversation with Lindsey Wright. Now, most of us don’t think of ourselves as victims, except that we do often show up as one of six or seven victim types in our real lives without realizing that we’re doing that. And that’s what we’re going to deep dive into today. So Lindsey, thanks for being here. Super excited to talk to you. Just as a little bit of background, let me explain the context of what we’re going to talk about today. The drama triangle is something that not a lot of people know about, but it’s an insanely helpful framework for seeing how you’re getting stuck in your life. There’s a persecutor, a victim, and a rescuer in this drama triangle that we all kind of fall into. And yet in the end, when we’re in drama, we often feel stuck because we are actually being a victim without realizing that we’re being a victim. We call this problem orientation and we call it our problem story. Now you and I — if you think about it for a minute — you’ll realize that you know plenty of people in your world who complain and struggle with things that just aren’t a problem for you, that that would just not be an issue for you in your life. Well, that’s what we call a problem story because it’s not a problem for everybody. It’s a problem for you, or it’s a problem for them, because of who they are, because of how they think, because of what’s showing up in their life. And there are certain reasons why that’s a problem story, which we can talk about another time. But this is the framework for what we’re going to talk about today: that we get stuck in our lives in problem stories. Maybe it’s a rebellious child. Maybe it’s the loss of a job. Maybe it’s a spouse that asks for a divorce. Or maybe it’s something simpler, like you just can’t seem to get the weight off and you’ve been trying for years and you are sick and tired of it. You just incessantly complain about how you can’t lose the weight because you’re a victim to your weight. And so these problem stories keep us frustrated and irritated and angry, or whatever the case might be. And we want to talk to you about how you might be showing up in this problem story as a certain type of victim. Lindsey’s going to help us understand why knowing a little bit more about what victimhood is and the different types of victims can be insanely helpful as a catalyst to help us see what we’re doing to ourselves a little more clearly, and be the first step toward getting out of this problem story and getting the car back on the road and moving again. So as a little bit of background, if you’ve been around very long, you probably recognize Lindsey’s face. She’s been with the Mission Driven Mom from the beginning. She’s phenomenal. She’s brilliant. She helped vet content for the Academy, helped get it built, has mentored hundreds and hundreds of women for us, has spoken on our stages, and I just can’t even begin to say how much I love her and how incredible she is. She has taken on the job of mentoring women who are going to be attending our Mothers of Creation event this fall. Bless her for that. We have an online community and we talk about these victim types in detail. Women are mentored in them in preparation for coming to this event. So she’s going to share with all of you today a little bit of what’s been going on in that community and why it makes such a huge difference. So the first question I want to ask you today, Lindsey, is: why do the victim types matter? Why do they matter, do you think, in general? And specifically, why do they matter to you?   Why the Victim Types Matter Lindsey: The victim types matter because they just help to bring awareness to something we might not realize that we’re doing, or patterns of thought and behavior that we don’t realize that we’re perpetuating. And so there are these victim types. I think if I were just to ask you, “Where are you being a victim in your life today?” your automatic response would be, “Well, I’m not,” because we don’t want to believe that about ourselves. But if I were to ask you, “Is there anywhere in your life that you feel resentful?” that might give you some clues, something that you could think about. And then if I were to say, “Well, there’s a way of being a victim that the feeling you get is this resentment,” and tie that back to the specific victim type, I think that’s a little bit more helpful in helping us to see these things, these things that we’re doing in our lives. AUDREY: Why does it matter to you personally, then? Have you had that experience? Lindsey: Yes. It’s so fascinating to me. The more that I learn about the victim orientation and the creator orientation, and I look for that in my life and I find it. But then — because I don’t just stay there, and that’s part of what we’re doing in the fall. We don’t want to just stay in the victim orientation. We want to learn how to get out of it. But awareness is that first step. And so when we become aware and I can start to see those things in my life, what’s happened is that I’ve been able to make changes in my life. I’m not stuck in some of the places that I was stuck in before. I feel more empowered. My relationships are better. Like, everything is better. My thinking is more clear when I can notice these things about myself and then also know what to do when I see them. AUDREY: Agreed. And we’ll get into this here in just a second. But just for me, knowing the title of what I’m doing — of how I’m being a victim — helps me see why I should just do the opposite of that. And there’s so much rich context that you’ve helped build around all of these victim types, and you can explain that to us. But just the title for me is so helpful because then it gives context around my attitudes, my behaviors, the way I’m approaching things. And it’s hugely motivating because I don’t want to be a doormat or I don’t want to be a chameleon. I don’t want to be that thing. And so it stimulates me to want to get out of that victim mindset and be different. Lindsey: Yes. And when you can name something, then you can start to create order. That is part of the process of creation — you have to name it. AUDREY: That’s a great point. Identify it, and then you can move on to the next steps. Yes, super helpful. All right. So let’s head into this. Can you give us a little more context around how you would answer the question: what is a victim type?   What Is a Victim Type? Lindsey: So all victims have a few things in common. All victims have something that they’re afraid of. All victims don’t want to take responsibility for something. All victims blame. There are certain characteristics of just this victim orientation in general. But these types of victims are helpful because they help us to see some of the nuances. They help us to see that there are a few different flavors of being a victim. And they’re a little bit different in the thoughts. So one of the things I’ve done is I’ve tried to connect a thought and a feeling to each of these victim types to help us understand it a little bit better. And so the thought and the feeling, there’s nuance there. And then the tool and the truth that they need to get out of it is also a little bit different. So when we can isolate this certain particular flavor of victim that we are participating in, then it’s helpful because then we know the next step. We know how to get out of it. AUDREY: Yeah. So with that in mind, let’s just walk through each of these and you can kind of give us some context and framework with some of the things that you feel like are most vital to understand about each one.   The Avoider Lindsey: So one of the first victims that we talked about in our Mothers of Creation community is the avoider. And I know from conversations that you and I have had, we both really struggle with the avoider. AUDREY: Yep. Lindsey: And I want to say that it’s not — we’re not bad people because we have this tendency. It’s just something that we do. It’s something that maybe we picked up — just the way we handle pain and struggle. It worked for us then, but now we know better, and so we’re going to do better. AUDREY: So when you were just talking, Lindsey, it made me think that maybe for our listeners one of the things that might be helpful to think about is that one aspect of the victim type is the way that you respond to fear. So something is happening that you don’t want to have happen, that you don’t like, that you’re afraid of. So what do you do about it? How do you respond to it? And like you said, for me, one of the common ways that I respond to fear is to avoid. But then the problem is that later on I look back and regret that I didn’t do something. And maybe doing something would still have been doing nothing, but at least it would have been a conscious choice instead of a reaction. Because I feel like the victim types are reactionary. Maybe that’s a reaction to those feelings of fear, maybe it’s a reaction to other things too, but anyway — so go ahead and give us some examples so that we can have some context. Lindsey: So the avoider — there are four possible reactions. You just reminded me when we were talking about reactions. And we’re all, I think, familiar with these: you can fight, you can flee, you can freeze, and there’s a fourth one that I learned about from David Emerald, and that is to appease. So you’re going to appease the people in the situation so that that conflict can go away. And so — take the avoider, the victim type of the avoider, and their reaction is to freeze. That’s the reaction. And they’re reacting to an anxiety that they have. They’re not necessarily reacting to the problem itself, they’re reacting to the way they feel about it. And they think, “I can’t do this. I can’t face this. This is too hard,” and so they freeze. Like you said, they don’t address the problem. And well, what happens when you don’t address problems? They get bigger. Then the anxiety gets bigger. AUDREY: Yeah. If you don’t face that anxiety it will just continue to get bigger and bigger. Lindsey: Yes. And so that’s where we get the avoider. They’re just avoiding those hard things that make them feel uncomfortable or overwhelmed. So what other aspects of the avoider can you share? The avoider feels stuck. And a lot of victims will feel stuck, but the avoider really feels stuck because they froze, right? They’re not moving forward. And they’re really afraid — say you have a relationship where there’s a hard conversation that needs to happen. The avoider is afraid that if they have this hard conversation, first of all that it’s going to be really uncomfortable — which is true, it is going to be really uncomfortable — that they’re going to lose control, that they’re going to lose the security, and maybe they’ll lose that relationship. So they’re reacting to that fear, to that anxiety, instead of making a proactive choice to deal with something. And isn’t there a truth that each one of the victim types needs to know? So what is it for avoiders? So the avoider needs to know that right now is what I can control. Sometimes an avoider will do something that seems like action, that seems like they’re addressing the problem, but actually isn’t. So they start to get into the future, they start to make plans. Say the problem is that your house is always a mess. What does the avoider do? Well, instead of addressing the actual problem, “Oh, I’m going to plan. I’m going to make job charts. I’m going to set up incentive systems.” They spend hours and hours doing all this and it feels like action. AUDREY: Oh, that’s so me. Yes. Lindsey: But I’m not actually — it’s not going to change anything. And how do we know? Because a week into this new job system, it’s not working anyway. Not that no one should ever plan, but if you’re feeling reactionary and freezing as an avoider victim to a hard situation that you feel anxious about, if you remember the truth that right now is what you can control, then you will just get busy cleaning the house. Just clean the house. In the five hours it took you to create that new job system, what could you have done? AUDREY: Yeah. And then some of the anxiety starts to be alleviated as you take action and you remember that you have more control than you think you do. And you can be planning in your mind while you’re cleaning, I suppose. Lindsey: Sure, yeah. The difference is — because planning is good, we all need to begin with the end in mind — it’s when you’re using the planning to avoid the doing, that’s when it’s a problem. AUDREY: I can see that in myself, that as I avoided, I liked to make plans, but actually nothing was happening right now. Yes. Lindsey: Yes. And one of the tools that we teach is radical acceptance of your current circumstances. Maybe my house is a little messier than I would like it to be because I’m a very busy mom. Maybe I have young children, or maybe I’ve just had a health crisis, or whatever. And so accepting where I am now, the season that I’m in now, and then controlling what I can control right now, here in the present. That’s how we can make that shift. AUDREY: I love it. Okay, let’s contrast that one with another one and go through each of those, and then maybe we can finish out by just touching on all of them so people just have some frame of reference for each of the types.   The Quitter Lindsey: Okay. I want to do the quitter next because just like the avoider, the quitter’s reaction is to flee. They want to get away from it. They don’t even want to try. They just want to get as far away from it as possible. So what might that look like? It could look like not getting out of bed in the morning to take care of your family. Or think of a young child — I have a young daughter who struggles with some things, so she just doesn’t want to do them. “It’s too hard.” She just doesn’t do it. So the avoider is kind of pretending like they’re doing something about it because they’re making all these plans, but the quitter just says, “I’m done.” They’re just out. They just quit the thing — quit the sport, quit the lessons, quit the conversations, quit the relationship. Just walk away instead of engaging. Yeah. AUDREY: Okay, I think I see that. And what are the other aspects of the quitter as compared to the avoider? Lindsey: They’re not necessarily thinking, “I can’t face this,” but more like, “Why do these things always happen to me?” or “This is too hard.” So a little more self-pity. We’ve got another victim type that I think really embodies the self-pity, though I think all victims to a certain extent feel badly about themselves. But the quitter will start and then decide it’s too hard. The avoider won’t engage at all. The quitter starts and then stops. And it comes from some misbeliefs: that I’m not capable, that the world is too hard, that the world is fixed, that there’s nothing that I can control. AUDREY: I loved your example about the music lessons, because most of us have maybe experienced that, or our children have, and we can see the pattern: we do this thing and then it gets hard and we quit. That actually is super helpful, because I was just thinking about two different kids of mine and different experiences that happened in their past when they were in lessons. One kept saying, “I want to stay in, I love it, I’m going to do better next week,” but then didn’t practice. So the avoider: making plans for the future, saying that they want this, but just not digging in and taking control of today. And then in other circumstances a child would sign up and go like mad for a couple of weeks or a couple of months, but it would be unsustainable, or it was just so much harder than they thought it was going to be, and so they would just quit. So I can see the differences. In both cases they’re not showing up for themselves in something that they said they wanted, and not taking responsibility for what they can control and moving forward with something methodical happening. But they did manage an uncomfortable situation differently. Lindsey: The quitter’s deep fear or anxiety is that they’re going to make a mistake. And they’re so afraid of making a mistake that they’re just going to stop now and then they don’t have to deal with that. So it kind of sounds a little bit like the avoider, and they are similar — they’re all victims. We’re just teasing out some of the little different nuances. But what the quitter needs to know is that they can practice the principles, that they can do the things that they know will work, and wait for the results. They can patiently keep moving forward to the best of their abilities and trust that as they do — as you practice the piano every day — it’s going to get better. It’s going to get easier. Principles will always deliver if you’re persistent. And the tool for the quitter is that they can practice those baby steps. Sometimes you or your child had this idea that they are going to be the best pianist in the whole world. And they want to be perfect now. And that’s why they get frustrated — because they imagined in their mind that it’s going to be great, that they’re just going to achieve it and it’s going to be easy. They don’t realize the work. AUDREY: And the child I was thinking of as a quitter — that is so fascinating because that exactly corresponds. They have an idea, they get excited, and it’s too big, it’s too much too soon. They’re not realistic about the process that it’s going to require and the daily choices that have to be made. And then because they’re here and the goal is so far out of reach after a few attempts, it just feels too impossible to get there. So they’re done. They just quit. Lindsey: Yes. But if we would just remember baby steps. Nobody is going to be the best at anything the first time they try it. Just baby steps. Just putting one foot in front of the other. That’s how we get there. We just have to remember those baby steps.   The Remaining Victim Types: A Brief Overview AUDREY: Oh my goodness, I can totally see that. So we’re getting a little bit low on time. Let’s just run through the rest — give us the titles and just a little bit of context around the rest of these victim types. Lindsey: Sure. So we talked about the avoider and the quitter. We have the martyr, and I think moms especially relate to this one. The martyr uses suffering as proof of their love or their value. If they’re suffering, then you know that they are a really good person. And I don’t think they’re making it up — I think they actually feel like they’re suffering. But isn’t it kind of like wearing that suffering on your sleeve to garner attention or empathy? AUDREY: Yeah. Or carrying this chip on her shoulder. “Why am I the only one that cares this much about this thing?” “No one says thank you. No one helps with the dishes.” Which is a way of avoiding responsibility — right? Because to train and educate and organize so that people will participate takes real work. Lindsey: So the martyr just stews in resentment and self-pity. That’s really one where we see the self-pity come through. And then we have the doormat, which is what it sounds like. The doormat’s fear is conflict. They don’t want it, so they’re an appeaser. We talked about those four reaction types. The doormat is an appeaser. They don’t want the conflict, so they’re just going to appease, which means that they are going to abandon their own boundaries in order to avoid conflict. We just go along to get along. And then they just get walked all over and they start to feel exhausted and hopeless. AUDREY: And it can make the situation — I guess any of these make the situation — it’s all drama. And like you’ve talked about avoiding responsibility, but I feel like a big part of what all of these victim types are avoiding is the work of thinking and taking responsibility for actual, true problem solving. “I’m going to just not think about it and avoid it.” “I’m just going to give up because it’s too hard.” “I’m just going to lay down on the floor and let everyone take care of me.” “I’m just going to do whatever you think.” These are all ways of avoiding deep pondering and the work of finding truths that could liberate you — of telling yourself the truth. Lindsey: Victims do not tell themselves the truth. That’s for sure. AUDREY: Great point. Okay, a couple more. Lindsey: I may add a few more before our celebration event because I’ve been thinking about these things. But a few more today. We have the dummy. The dummy either fights or freezes, and they’re the ones who don’t feel like they can solve their problem. So they’re inviting a rescuer — somebody come solve this problem for me because I’m not capable of solving it. Or they just want you to stop talking about it. “I don’t know what to do.” End of story. End of conversation. AUDREY: That actually reminds me of someone. A lot of times when I’ve tried to have problem-solving or root-getting conversations, it’s: “I don’t know” — silence. “I don’t know” — silence. “I don’t know” — silence. That’s a good way of avoiding responsibility. And maybe part of that is — I mean, I think they all have their issues with self-image — but in this particular case, they just don’t see themselves as capable problem solvers. Lindsey: Yes. And then there was one more, and that is the chameleon. This is an interesting one. The doormat abandons their boundaries to avoid conflict. The chameleon abandons their identity to gain belonging. This is the people-pleasing person. Whatever group they’re in, they assume a different identity to fit in with the group. And the problem with that? They don’t know who they are, and nobody else knows who they are either. How can we interact with each other if nobody knows who you are? AUDREY: Wow, that’s profound, Lindsey.   The First Step: Awareness and Naming AUDREY: While you were talking about this, I just realized that the inverse of this can also be super helpful. Just in those titles alone, women will recognize themselves. But then the next thing they can say is: “And when I do that, I’m being a victim.” And that is so helpful because you recognize that it’s not a helpful or healthy way of being, it’s not where you want to stay. And as you understand these different aspects — the feelings that accompany each type, the truth that goes along with it, and the tools that they need — then if they can identify that behavior and recognize that as a victim way of being, they can walk themselves back out of some of that with those tools. So as we finish up, what’s the first step? What is something that you recommend that women do when they’re just becoming oriented to these victim types? Lindsey: Well, I’m going to quote David Emerald. He says — and this is from his book, Three Vital Questions — “This transformation begins by recognizing one’s own drama.” So that is the first step: just to become aware. To know first of all that there’s a victim orientation and a creator orientation, and to name it. Have those things to name it, and then start seeing it. That’s what’s been really fun as I’ve kind of done a deep dive into this material — as I’m in it and I’m thinking about these names, I can see them. I can see them in movies, in books, in relationships, and especially in myself. So that’s what we’re doing in the community right now: trying to develop this awareness so that we can see it more quickly. And then the more quickly you can see it, the faster you can change it. AUDREY: Wow. That’s powerful. That is awesome.   Invitation to the Mothers of Creation Conference AUDREY: Well, if you can see — I think anyone listening can see that Lindsey knows her stuff, and she continues to flesh this out. There’s an in-depth training that we did a few months ago that lives in the community. There’s ongoing mentoring in that community. Lindsey, I think you have another training coming up here pretty soon, and all of those are recorded in that community. But the best part is — if this has been interesting and stimulating to you, if you want to understand it better — we would invite you to sign up for our Mothers of Creation MDM Celebration that will happen September 26th in Provo, Utah, in a beautiful big ballroom hall in a library. We will spend a whole day together talking about all these things in great depth. And leading up to that, the moment that you sign up you will have instant access to that community and to Lindsey. She will answer all your questions. You can watch these past recordings, you can attend this upcoming training, and you can begin to orient yourself around this whole chart — which is available in there. She’s adding to and fleshing it out and improving it all the time. And you can begin to understand and name for yourself how you are showing up in your life as a victim, why you don’t want to do that, and how you can work your way out of it. Just understanding these victim types is a huge, mega tool set for that. But then at our event in September, we will walk you through the entire framework for going from problem orientation and problem story to being the creator in your own life through disconnecting and reframing that problem story. So we hope that you will join us for all of those things, and we can meet you in September. But again, thank you for joining us. Hopefully understanding a little bit about these victim types has been helpful for all of you, and we will see you next time.

Resources Mentioned in the Episode:  Free Training: How to Stop Feeling Powerless and Become the Expert in Your Own Life Seven Habits of Highly Effective People The 6 Geniuses   I asked my husband Blaine a question at the end of our podcast conversation this week. I asked him what all of our work in learning to understand and live principles has been worth to our family. And he got quiet for a second, and then he said he thought it was “immeasurable.” That there “are too many benefits to name.” Then he said something that stopped me in my tracks: “I think we still have a family because of it.” This week on the podcast, Blaine is here. And we are talking about our marriage — the real version. The rocky years, the finances, the addiction, the therapy that didn't work, the day things got bad enough that we both finally woke up. We are sharing it because I know there are women listening who are right where I was — committed to their marriage, committed to their family, but feeling stuck and completely powerless to change anything.     AI Generated Transcript Introduction Welcome to the Mission Driven Mom podcast. This podcast is for moms just like you, who want to learn how to glorify God through finding and embracing true principles, discovering and developing your greatest gifts, and using them to serve your family and community. Alright, welcome back to the podcast. I'm Audrey Rindlisbacher, author of The Mission-Driven Life and founder of The Mission-Driven Mom. I'm super grateful to have you with us today, and the best part is that my husband is here. We are going to talk about him and me and our marriage and our family, and what it has to do with you and your marriage and your family. So we're just going to start today by talking. Blaine, tell us a little bit about yourself. Just who you are, what some of your hobbies are, what you enjoy doing, so they can start to become familiar with who you are.   Meet Blaine Blaine: I'm Blaine. Nice to virtually meet all of you. I am married to Audrey, and we have six kids. I have a life of sales and construction experience, and I love hobbies. I love to hike, I love to read. Shakespeare's my favorite. I play the viola, I'm in an orchestra, and I love to learn languages. And remodeling. I do love construction. Audrey: So much. And gardening. Blaine: That is true. Yeah. So many things. But I like construction more than gardening, though, to be honest. Audrey: Yes. Alright, so then tell us a little bit about how long we've been married and some of the words that you might use to talk about our marriage and about me. Blaine: We've been married 32 years. Is that right? Audrey: Yes. That's good. Blaine: And words about you? And us? I would describe us as people that are really trying to find out the truth. Our mission statement is "The truth shall make you free," so that's what our lens is always trying to find. If we have something that is difficult in our lives, it takes us sometimes a long time, sometimes it doesn't take very long, to try to find out what's the truth that's really going to solve this problem or make us so we can accomplish this thing that we want to do. So that's kind of our pursuit always. And then we find out sometimes we went down the wrong path. We didn't do it quite right, or we could improve it, and so then we try to improve it from there and level it up even higher. Audrey: That's true. Would you agree? Except it hasn't always been that way. Blaine: Oh. I think we've always been the kind of people that want to improve as individuals, but we didn't always have the tools and the language that you just used, for sure. Audrey: No. And I think I would also say just about us, just our marriage in general. To describe our marriage, I would say that we've always been good friends, and we've always really had a lot in common and had a lot of chemistry and enjoyed each other's company, but it hasn't always been easy to navigate the marriage. And there have been rocky and rough times for sure. Blaine: It's true. I've been happily married for 32 years, and I think you're at 16 now, right? Audrey: Yeah, that's your favorite thing to say. It's unfortunately true. Blaine: Which makes it sound like our marital problems were all your fault. That's definitely not true. But we had good enough times that you stuck in there with me. We did have a lot of good things that we did over the years and good times together. And we've always respected each other quite a bit. And we were very motivated to keep the marriage together, to figure things out, but we didn't always know the way.   The Early Years: Challenges and Struggles Audrey: So let's go back. We want to talk today to couples who are maybe in some of the same situations that we were in when we were younger. Couples that love each other, that want to stay married but don't always know the way forward. Not because we have a lot of marital advice, but because we have an academy that empowers and arms women and mothers and wives to know how to better navigate and negotiate themselves. So we thought we would just take a little trip in time today with you and go back through some of our experiences together and how the concepts and principles and language and tools that we have had the privilege of putting into our academy made a difference for us, and specifically how they made a difference for me, and through me made a difference for us. How would you describe me and what I was going through before this all began when we just had our three little ones? Blaine: I thought everything was hunky-dory, except for all the problems we had. But you... I thought you were all chillax, everything was good. But then things weren't good, and you were like... I just remember you walked around saying, "I'm so intellectually bored. I need to be intellectually stimulated." And I kept saying, "What does that mean?" And you just had this constant frustration. You were longing for something, and I understand what it is now, but I didn't know then. Audrey: Well, neither did I. That's why you kept going around asking. I mean, you asked it all the time. I wanted some depth. "I just need something. What do I need? What do I need? What do I need?" I wanted some mental challenge. Blaine: And so I remember that. With my addiction, we both struggled a lot. I struggled a lot more, I think. But how to not take it personally... You were always really good to me and patient with me, but I think you still struggled more at the beginning than you did later on. Audrey: What do you mean? Blaine: Struggling with being married to an addict. You had no idea what to do. And then later on you felt more empowered and you handled it better. Audrey: What else would you say about that time in our life? Other challenges we had going on? Blaine: Finances. How to handle finances. How to parent the best we could. You had relationships that sometimes were real sticky and you weren't sure what was going on and how to handle them with extended family and even some friends. That caused a lot of heartache at times. Audrey: Yeah. I felt like at the time, and this is one of the reasons why when we found this education and this pathway forward of something to do and try, I just knew that we were both in it. We weren't going anywhere, and I knew that we were both trying. I mean, you were so dedicated to me staying home with the kids. I said many times, "Should I go work?" And you were like, "No, no, no. I will figure it out. I want you to feel like you can stay home with the kids and be there, especially when they're young." So we were in it in that regard, but I also felt like we lacked unity in a lot of ways. Like, we weren't really always on the same page financially. We didn't actually talk about parenting strategies much. In navigating our relationship, we fought way more than I want to admit. Blaine: Yeah, we did fight. But I think our commitment to God and our commitment to each other really anchored us and kept us afloat. Audrey: I feel like one of the most important things, like hanging on to faith, is that it kept us from expecting the other person to fill every hole in our lives. Like, we understood at least that much that there were certain spiritual needs and other needs that God could only meet for us or that we could only meet for ourselves. I think there was a little bit of understanding of that. I don't remember us having arguments about, "Well, it's your fault," this or that. But on the other hand, when we felt rotten, it was easy to blame each other. Like, "You're the reason I feel rotten," or, "Our finances are the reason," or, "Extended family is the reason." Blaine: And I was kind of fragile because of my ego. So you would bring up finances and I'd blow up because I was embarrassed that I wasn't taking better care of you and the family. We didn't have more money and more things. And that was tough for me. And it was tough for you because then there was an argument. You're like, "Why do you always blow up? We're just trying to have a conversation." Audrey: Yeah. And then I would cry, and then I would want to blame you, and sometimes I would. I didn't have any idea how I was contributing or what it was that I could do about it or the different perception changes that I could have. Looking back and kind of being in that moment again with you, the best way I know how to describe it is really just feeling so powerless. Like, I go to church, I say my prayers, I live a good life, I do good things, I followed the prescription of marry and have kids, and now this was my dream, but it doesn't feel like I'm living in my dream. It just feels messy and confusing and hard, and I just didn't have good tools to know how to see it differently and be different myself.   The Wake-Up Call Audrey: The big moment, the wake-up call, we would probably both say is... Blaine: When you slapped me. Audrey: Yeah. What do you remember about that day? Blaine: I remember being a normal man. Things were fine. I've learned that the wife feels it a lot more intensely than the husband, and things were fine from where I stood. And then when you slapped me, I was like, "Oh, wait a minute. Wait, there's a major problem here." That's when I woke up and thought, "Oh, we're in trouble." Serious trouble. So that's why I prayed, and that's why I found a counselor and went and took you there, because I didn't want to lose you. It's ironic in the sense that we don't know what we're doing. We love this person. We want to be with them, but we're doing things to push them away. That's the irony. Blaine: But when you learn some principles and some things that empower you, then all of a sudden it just changes everything. You're like, "Okay, well now I'm not pushing them away. I'm actually drawing them towards me because I have these tools that I didn't know before." Audrey: And part of it, I know, is that we didn't understand who we were. You didn't understand who you were. Blaine: Yeah. And I didn't understand who I was. And so we're blaming the other for something that's impossible for them to do. They're not wired that way. All the times you would say, "Why don't you just plan something?" I was like, "I'm not a planner." I mean, it just doesn't come natural to me at all. And so once you realize that, then almost instantly things got a little bit better because you're like, "Oh, he doesn't ever think about it until you bring it up." So that self-discovery was really helpful.   Therapy: What Helped and What Didn't Audrey: And you know, ironically, what a lot of listeners might not know is that you actually have a marriage and family therapy degree. You actually went through that degree program. You actually worked with couples for a couple of years. So you really do have the inside track. Not only did we go as a couple to marriage therapy, but then you turned around and were on the other side of it. Blaine: Ben Hardy says something really interesting about therapy. It's very helpful for a myriad of reasons, but it's backward-looking. Therapy really focuses very heavily on the past, and it can be very helpful to look at your past and rewrite those stories to be more empowering, but it's limited in that regard. And what happens in marriage therapy is that it's the least successful of all therapeutic approaches, largely because you're in the room with somebody else and it's easy to blame. Audrey: Yeah. And like you said, when we went to therapy, communication was the biggest emphasis. And after we'd gone every week for a year, I remember the day we pulled up and we kind of looked at each other and were like, "I really don't think she has anything else to teach us. We've kind of cycled through. She's talking about the same things again, and I just don't think this can take us any further." It gave us a couple of tools. That was pretty much it. The biggest benefit of therapy was that Blaine called. It was the fact that you called up and you wanted to go, and you were willing to go and spend the money, that I knew, "Oh, he's committed. He really does want to make this work. He really is willing to do whatever we need to do." And that was hugely helpful to just know that. But in terms of that making a huge impact on our marriage, ironically, it just didn't. Blaine: And that's part of the reason I don't do marriage counseling anymore, because it was so frustrating. They would sit there and blame the other person. I had some remarkable stories where people changed, and it was awesome. But I also remember one time a lady came in by herself, and I said, "Look, I have a question for you. Are you just coming here so you can check off the box to say you went to therapy so that you can then divorce your husband?" And she just... I nailed it. She didn't want to be married anymore. She didn't want to do any work to change. She just didn't want to be married to him anymore, and she wanted to be able to say, "I was the good spouse. I went to therapy." Blaine: But I found also that you were doing MDM and having greater impact on marriages than I was having. And you weren't working with couples. You were working with individuals. And people would say, "You saved my marriage." And I was like, "You saved their marriage? What'd you do?" But there was no marriage therapy. And it's because one plus one is two, but if you change one, then the answer's no longer two. If you become a better you, the whole relationship gets better. And that's hard to do because it's easier to blame. It's easier to say it's their fault than to look at your own stuff. But that's where all the empowerment comes from. That's where you feel so much better because you feel like you actually have answers. You actually feel empowered and feel like you can do something instead of just letting whatever happens to you happen to you.   Finding the Education That Changed Everything Audrey: So we'd done the therapy. It hadn't really helped. What we knew is that we were both committed to this marriage, and we wanted to figure it out, and I was really grateful to know that, but we just didn't have answers. And then here I am, wandering around the house, not knowing how to manage the extended family situations, the pornography issues, you were gone a lot, finances and all the things. So I just wanted answers, and I felt lost in motherhood. I didn't have a huge sense of self even before marriage. I wandered around a major university for three years, went and did mission work in Europe, and came home and married. But being married, I knew that I loved you, and I knew I loved the kids, and I didn't want to go anywhere, but I needed some kind of something. And I didn't want to go get a full-time career. I thought about going back to the university, but I was going to have to go to school full time. So we find this classical liberal education because of our sister-in-law. I'm talking to her about this. For a year I've been wandering around the house saying, "You don't know how to help me. You don't know what to tell me. I don't know what else to try. I've tried courses. I've read books. We've been to therapy. I don't know what else to try." So then we find this little school. I know one of the things that women come back to us with in terms of wanting to join the academy is that a lot of husbands will say things like, "Well, if you're going to spend money on yourself and on an education, it should be so that you can earn more money for our family." I know that we were back and forth about it a lot, and it was a huge financial sacrifice for us. It was going to take time. It was going to take money, and I felt I had done my due diligence and researched it, but I wanted it. Where were you at in that moment? How did you feel about spending the money and me taking the time? Blaine: I just felt bad for you because I knew how frustrated you had been and how you were longing for something, but we didn't know what it was. And every time I paid tuition, I was like... It was all out of pocket. No loans or anything. Unaccredited. But you know, looking back, I would have done it in a heartbeat. Because with the kind of education that we have now, ironically, I think people are able to earn more money. They can think deeper. And if they do need a certain credential, they'll be better. They'll understand things better. They'll be able to fit the career better with who they are because they'll understand themselves better. But then all I knew was that my wife needed something, and let's try this. And I was quite intrigued, to be honest. They were talking about Cicero and Dante and Shakespeare and Dickens, and Plato and Aristotle. So it was intriguing to me, but I was still worried about the money, for sure.   Self-Discovery: The First Principles Audrey: So we get started. I take classes online, and then we have that live class a couple of years in. You show up, we're reading Seven Habits, and we realize we have no family mission statement. We aren't even thinking about it that way. Blaine: That was you. You're the planner. You're the one that's like, "We don't have this." Audrey: I was like, "I didn't think about it. The corporations have mission statements, right?" And of course we're thinking about personal mission statements, and then I realize we don't have one. And it was a principle that I was able to latch onto that felt like, "Oh, this is actually something that we could do that would start to build more unity. We could have a shared vision." And it was Covey that was talking about principles. He even mentioned natural law, but I wasn't keyed into it until later when we read Locke, and that's really when the concept of natural law really presented itself as this unique, original idea that I had been totally unfamiliar with. And so one thing led to another. Even though those college classes didn't introduce me to most of the things that are in the academy now, it introduced me to frameworks and concepts and turned me on to the types of learning tools I needed to gain. I was taught and mentored in how to lead Socratic discussion, and I started to understand the kinds of readings that you should engage in and why, and how you would go about doing that. And then as I dove deep into the natural law and we got this mission statement of "the truth will make you free," then eventually somewhere along the line we connected the dots. There must be financial principles then. There must be addiction recovery principles then. Blaine: Yeah. And even when you were doing your marriage therapy, you were like, "Well, there must be marriage principles." And you ran your whole program on those 12 marital principles. But I think one of the attractions to me was to see your confidence rise. It skyrocketed. Because you were in your element, in your strengths. And just the light that you had, and the impact it was starting to have on you, not just the confidence, which was huge, but how the things you were thinking about and the connections you were making attracted me more to it. I was like, "Man, there's some real meat here. There are some real answers that we're starting to get." And so it was easy to pull me into it because of the impact it was already having on you. Audrey: Wow. That's cool. I don't know if I've ever heard you say that that way.   How These Principles Changed Our Marriage Audrey: As we finish up here, let's talk for just a minute about some of the concepts and principles that made their way into the academy and talk about how they changed me, changed you, changed us, changed our family for the better. And then we'll end with what you might say to couples, and especially husbands, whose wives are turned on to this program and are considering doing it and feel concerned about the investment. So first, let's back up a bit. In level one we're learning how to love and like ourselves, and we've got those three core first principles of self-care and self-discovery and self-management, or self-leadership. What are some of the concepts and principles, or stories, that you could relate or examples you could give for discovering those? Blaine: Well, I remember one time when you got really angry. I don't know if you've ever been that angry before, except for maybe when you slapped me. And you told me the next day you felt like you'd been poisoned. And that was a change. You said, "I will never allow myself to go there again." And it was just a step up in the self-management. You weren't going to allow yourself to do things like that because it didn't do any good. It just made you feel horrible. What was the self-discovery that made such a difference for you and for us? Audrey: I think self-discovery is so important. I mean, what does it say above the Lyceum door? "Know thyself." It's huge. I don't think there's enough emphasis on it in our society. People do stuff and they're frustrated. So many people, like me, frustrated for years because they're not in their element, not in the place where their gifts and their strengths are. Blaine: And for you, for mind mates, you just need to talk. You want to talk to people about things, about ideas. And that's really empowering to understand. I was like, "Why does she want to talk?" Always wanting to talk, talk, talk. But it's important to you. It helps meet a need. So you give yourself permission to do it, too, so you have an outlet, so you actually feel better. Another thing you did is you got more serious about exercising and making sure that you met your needs. Because Adler taught you about needs and what proper self-care is. Once you started doing that, you improved. And that improved your emotional state. I think exercising is going to help probably more emotionally than physically, though it will definitely help physically. And so that was really helpful. And you'd always prayed and studied scripture and been in church, so you did a good job on your spiritual needs. But you took it up by meeting these other needs that weren't so natural to you, which helped you, which helped us. And you were a better mom, more patient, because you felt better because you'd met those needs.   Shared Language and Principles: A New Framework Audrey: You know, we mentioned how so much of therapy and marriage tools and everything people talk about is around communication. But actually, for us, gaining an understanding of principles did two really important things. One thing it did was, instead of Blaine being right or me being right, it was the principles that are right. And so it took a layer of friction between us away. So often we've been in conversations that have gotten a little heated, and we've been able to say, "Okay, but what's the principle here?" And we can check ourselves and say, "Maybe I'm wrong. Let's go try to figure out what the principle would be here." And then the secondary thing that's so important is that we have all this shared language. I mean, if you've been listening to us these last few minutes, we have all these words and all this language about drama and victimhood and creator orientation, or whether it's self-deception or whether it's telling yourself the truth, or whether it's meeting your needs. And we're able to correct each other, I guess is maybe the word. But it doesn't bother me. It's not coming from an accusatory place. Blaine: Like you just said, you'll say, "Audrey, you've got to meet your needs or you're going to crash." Or I'll start crashing and you'll be like, "You feel this way because you're not meeting your needs well enough." And I'm not accusing you. I'm just stating you're not in line with true principles, and therefore you're reaping the consequences. Audrey: Yes. And so it's been just... I can't even emphasize strongly enough how incredibly liberating and empowering it has been to have all of this shared language around how to live out these three first principles of loving ourselves. Because now we both love ourselves better, and when we love ourselves better, we can love each other better. Blaine: And I think any husband should encourage his wife to do this program. And I'm not saying that for any reason other than for your benefit and her benefit. It's going to benefit your wife, and she's going to become a better person. She's going to feel better. She's going to feel empowered, and you're going to like that, and you're going to want to follow because you don't want to be left behind. And just the goodness and health and wholeness that comes from it is so attractive. You'd want to be that way too. Plus, if you're like me, you don't want the problems I was having. I wanted to overcome those problems. I wanted to be a better man, a better husband, a better provider. And all this has done is made it easier. We still have our stuff. We still have things to work through because we're human. But we can catch it, and we can arrest it, and we can pivot and go the right way so that pain is avoided, which used to cause weeks or months of suffering. Sometimes it would be an argument for a few days, or those poor choices would have consequences going on for a long time. And now a lot of times we can just see it. We can think deeper. We know ourselves, and we can course-correct.   The Impact on Our Family Audrey: And I think there's so many ways in which this enhances love in a marriage. As we both meet our own individual needs, there are many things I can't do for Blaine. I can't strengthen his relationship with God. I can't make him more fit. I can't help him learn a language or read a great book. I can't help him manage his anger or frustrations or self-pity. Those are all things he needs to do for himself, which is why we need the tools to know how to lead ourselves emotionally, how to manage our hearts and our minds, how to meet our real needs. And then the self-discovery component layers the marriage with this beautiful understanding of each other that's so much richer and deeper. Because instead of expecting or wanting him to be like me, I value that he's different. I want him to be different because I understand that his difference complements me and that it makes us stronger together. And I see it as a strength instead of a weakness. And instead of blaming him, I encourage him to be the person that he is to the fullest. I feel like all of those things have deepened the love that we have for each other. Blaine: I remember one time we were going on a trip. I don't remember where we were going, but you're like, "Why don't you help out?" And I was like, "What do you think I've been doing?" You said, "I'm in here in the kitchen all by myself." And I said, "Did you check the sprinklers? Did you mow the lawn? Did you make sure everything was locked? Did you check the temperatures on the AC? Did you check the pool?" And listed all these things. She's like, "Oh." It was just a case in point of how differently we think. And now she's like, "Oh, you're a man. You think differently." It was just empowering, and we've kept that and used that as we've gone forward. Audrey: And because of the things that we've learned and understand, I was able to say, "Why aren't you helping me?" or "Could you help me better?" rather than, "You're such a loser. Sleep on the couch tonight." Because we had a lot of couch nights in this marriage. Blaine: And I've learned more patience because of it. I learned that you weren't attacking me. You were just trying to talk about things, your concerns and stuff like that. And it's exciting. It's more exciting now than ever because we've gone so far, and we keep knowing that if we hit a problem, we can tackle it and we can beat it. We have the toolbox. We can just grab the tool we need and run with it.   A Message to Husbands Audrey: Husbands, if this is something that your wife is willing to tackle, if she wants to embark on this adventure of self-discovery and self-leadership and really do the work of self-management and understanding herself, you have everything to gain, which Blaine said. And everything will be different in your family culture. I mean, we didn't talk about it, but just the way that we parent, the type of family culture that we've been able to build, rests on a foundation of understanding. There are so many countless stories I could tell about understanding my children better and valuing them more and encouraging them in their strengths and unique gifts and talents. Everyone has benefited. Blaine: And the thing that I think is so incredible about the academy is that you've really built it for women in the real world. You see these books that say, "How do you get a book through? You read it four times." Like, who has time to read it once? But you've got it to 20 or 30 minutes a day. That's all the more time, because it has to be done that way so it percolates and they really get it. And it's not going to overtake their lives at all. And you're going to see immediate results, I think. Right off the bat, you're going to see something. They're going to implement something that they learn, and you're going to be impressed. And they're just going to continue to do that as they work through the academy over the months and years ahead. What Has It All Been Worth? Audrey: As we end, Blaine, one last question for you. What has all of this been worth to our family? Blaine: I think that's immeasurable. I think we have a family still because of it. Because it would've been real easy to make me the problem. You know, addiction was the problem. I wasn't the problem. I was suffering. I was wounded in battle. And I had such a poor self-image because of my addiction that you could do no wrong. I really used to think, "I'm sure she has faults," but because mine were just glaring so huge, I couldn't see them. But you didn't give up on me. And so that was ginormous. I mean, it's helped us in all our relationships with extended family. It's now helped me rebuild relationships with my children that needed to be healed and improved. It's helped us with our finances. We had financial stress for years and years and years. It's helped us with your hip, where you could hardly even walk. And through prayer and study and hard work, finding the answers, you didn't have to have an operation and you're back to normal. I mean, it took almost a year, but there are just so many benefits. And just the peace of mind and the enjoyment that we have in our lives. We know who we are, so we do things that bring us joy. And we've given ourselves permission because that's who we are. Before, sometimes we felt like, "Oh, I can't do that. It's wasting time or whatever." And we understand now, no, we need leisure time, and we need to be in our work and... I mean, I just can't answer it fully. The benefits have been astronomical. Just incredible. Audrey: Well, thank you for coming and talking to us today and sharing a husband's perspective and a man's perspective on how women can gain the tools to manage themselves. And when they manage themselves, everything changes for everybody. I know that firsthand, and you know that firsthand. So hopefully what we've said today helps someone out there.   Closing and Free Training Invitation Audrey: Thank you so much for joining us today. We are so grateful that you were able to be here. If you want to learn more about what goes on in the academy or what the natural law is or how principles work or any of the things that we've talked about today, you can join me in a free training that I'm doing coming up soon. The link is in the description below or at themissiondrivenmom.com. I'd love to see you at that free training. Thank you again for being here and joining us, and we'll see you next time.  

Resources Mentioned in the Episode:  Free Training - How to Stop Feeling Powerless & Become the Expert in Your Own Life The Mission Driven Mom Academy Over the last month, I've been sharing stories from some of the women inside MDM Academy. These are not women who had more figured out than you do.  They didn't start with extra money, extra time, or some kind of unshakeable certainty. They started exactly where a lot of us are, with a feeling they couldn't quite name, a family they were trying to show up for, and a quiet little voice in the back of their head whispering, is this really it for me? They just said yes to the next small step in front of them. Today's episode is all three of their stories woven together, because I think together they say something none of them could say alone. You're going to hear from Karen, who felt called to serve orphaned teenagers in Mexico, talked herself out of it for years, and then one day got an email from her husband with the subject line: it's time to go. She sold her house. Sold her stuff. Moved her whole family to the jungle. And she is building something I believe is going to change a lot of lives. Then you'll hear from Lindsay, our head mentor inside MDM, who came to this work feeling completely lost, despite having accomplished every goal she had ever set for herself. A mom of five who had done everything right and still felt like she was floundering. What she found here changed not just her own life, but the way she leads her family, her homeschool, and her church. And then there's Brenda. A community builder who has spent decades watching what happens when women stop trying to do it all alone. She has brought her kids across the country, started schools, coached founders, and will tell you with the most joyful, completely matter-of-fact energy that together, there is nothing we cannot do. These are your people, friend.   AI Generated Transcript Introduction   Welcome to today's podcast. I'm Audrey Rindlisbacher, and I wanna tell you something before we get into today's podcast. Over the last month, we shared several interviews with some of our MDM Academy members. Inspiring stories about the impact that doing this work has had on their lives and their families and the world around them. The women you're about to hear from are not extraordinary in the way we usually mean that word. They did not start with more money or more time or more resources or more certainty than you have right now. They started exactly where you are, with a pull towards something they could not quite name, a family they were trying to show up for, and a quiet voice in the back of their minds. Is this it? Is this what's here for me? And they said yes to that next small thing, and then the next one, and then the one after that. And today I'm bringing you the highlights of these three conversations stitched together into one episode because I think together they tell a story that none of them could tell alone. You're gonna hear from Karen, who felt called to serve orphaned teenagers in Mexico, dismissed the idea for years, and then one day got an email from her husband with the subject line, "It's time to go." She sold her house, sold her stuff, moved her family to the jungle, and is now building something that I believe is going to change a lot of lives. Then you're gonna hear from Lindsay, our head mentor inside MDM Academy, who came to this work feeling like she was floundering. A mother of five who had accomplished every goal she had set for herself and still felt lost. What she found here changed not just her own life, but the way she leads her family, her homeschool community, and in her church. And then you're going to hear from Brenda, a community builder who has spent decades watching what happens when women stop trying to do it alone. She's dragged her kids across the country, started schools, coached founders, and will tell you in the most joyful matter-of-fact way that together there's nothing we cannot do. These are your people, my friend. I'm excited for you to listen.   Part One: Karen — "It's Time to Go" Karen And then that was the last I heard of him. I did hear that he did end up at one of the centers. But it was more and more kids like this that would contact me. I'd find out what they were doing, and I just thought if we could be in Mexico, like we could do something for them. Like from out here, I feel like we can... I mean, we did some fundraisers to try to find things that the orphanage needed. But what they — I felt they needed most was to be heard, to have these opportunities to pursue the interests they had, and to make an impact for good. They really, like all the ones I met, really wanted to just make the world better. They wanted to break these cycles. They didn't wanna be the same kind of people that their parents were. Oftentimes they were in these orphanages because their parents were in addictions, and they couldn't take care of them. They wanted something better and different. But often when they would go back out into the world, that's what they knew. They didn't really know how to do things in a different way, so they would go back to these patterns. And I thought, in my heart, I thought if we could just live in Mexico. But whenever I would bring it up to my family, they were like, "Well, that's impossible. You know, my husband's job is in the United States, and he likes it, and he can't work remotely. He's a therapist, so that's a hands-on thing, and we have a life here." And so it just seemed like an impossible thing, but it would come into my mind every once in a while. We could do so much more if we could provide something there, because obviously we can't bring them to us — as much as I would like that. I did look into adoption a few times, and that was really difficult for Mexico. And it wasn't gonna make the impact for all of the kids that I want to make. And so I think that drive home, that prayer, that sincere prayer just started something. I can't even explain exactly what it was, but because it was so sincere, something happened that just made the ball start rolling in a direction where this would be possible. As I was looking into options of what to do, I thought maybe we could go sometimes in the summer. That's what we started doing — creating different programs, figuring out ways to help these kids. And every once in a while I would say, "But if we lived in Mexico," and they're like, "Oh, here you go again." And so I kinda just stopped at that. And then one day out of nowhere — this was a huge surprise to me — my husband sends me this email and the subject line said, "It's time to go." And so I started reading it and he said, "I've been praying about this, and if this is something that means this much to you and that you really wanna try, then we should just go and try it as a family. Let's just all go and see what we can do." And so that was a huge miracle, 'cause that was so unexpected. And so he decided to take that leap, and we just sold our home and sold our stuff and we went to a couple internships first. So we did an internship in one orphanage in Tijuana, another one in that same orphanage that we often visited, and then we moved — which is where we bought land. So we had bought the land a year earlier after deciding to do this, planning to move out there. Audrey All right, incredible stuff. What Karen just described — that moment of offering herself to God with no plan, no guarantee, and no roadmap — that is not a rare thing. I've watched it happen over and over again in the lives of women who have done this work. But here's what I want you to notice. It didn't start with mission. It started with Karen working on herself, reading, learning, asking harder questions, sitting with the discomfort of a calling she wasn't sure she was ready for. The mission was the fruit of the inner work, not the starting point. And that's exactly what you're gonna hear from Lindsay next. Lindsay came to The Mission Driven Mom not because she had a vision for her community or a project she wanted to launch. She came because she was floundering. She had everything she had set out to accomplish — she had accomplished it — and she still didn't know who she was or where she was going next. And what happened, what the work of learning to think differently did to her relationships, her courage, and her ability to lead — I think it's actually really gonna resonate with you. So I'm excited for you to listen to this next part.   Part Two: Lindsay — From Floundering to Found Lindsay But I did feel — I did feel like I was floundering a little bit. And you've talked about this before, and I resonate with it, that you get lost a little bit in the motherhood. It's consuming. It's often thankless, although everybody appreciates the mother — they don't always say it. But I just remembered just floundering, I think would be the word. Just not knowing what to do, where to spend my time, and feeling a little lost, and maybe even a little bit depressed. I just didn't know, okay, where do I go from here? And joining the MDM community, going through Level One — you're putting yourself together. You're making your physical needs a priority. You're making your mental needs a priority. You're studying, you're learning. That intellectual stimulation really is meaningful and gives life a lot of meaning, as you're learning, as you're making friends and discussing things, and putting your spiritual house in order. And then one of my favorite parts of Level One is just the self-discovery. So learning what am I good at? What are my natural strengths? And how can I develop them? I remember when we were learning about the drama triangle, and that was such a paradigm shift for me — just to have the words for it. That creator is the opposite of victim. And I didn't necessarily think that I was a victim. I didn't think that I was steeped in this victim mentality, but I was in the middle of some big drama at the time, and it was so helpful to see the different roles that were being played, and the roles I was playing in the drama cycle, and to know what to do to change that. So that was a big deal, and I'm still learning, still working on it. There's still multiple ways — subtle ways — that we show up in this victim orientation every day. And so I'm super excited. I've been diving deep into different ways of being a victim, and it's been fun to just get more depth to this understanding of the drama cycle, and how to be a creator. I think for me, it's been a journey of getting my heart and my mind to talk to each other. Our heart — that's where our values are. That's where we feel things. That's where we have desire and motivation. And then in our mind is the logic and the reason and all those things that we associate with the intellectual life. And I've always been very much in my mind, very intellectual. That's how I approached the world. Give me a book so I can know what to do. Through the academy, I'm learning — and I'm still learning — how to tap more into the heart, how to tap more into my values. Like, I know what my values are. How to pay attention to those feelings. How do we know we're in drama? It starts with a feeling. How do we relate with people? It starts with the heart, right? And for me, it's that communication between the heart and mind that is just a better way to approach life — with both of them being active instead of just the one. We get to know ourselves on a deeper level in Level One. And so understanding my unique strengths, and also the strengths of others, because we're not the same. And I think sometimes in the past I had thought my way is the best way, and expected everybody to be like me. And so now I have this greater appreciation that actually, I really appreciate when people are not like me — because they bring balance to me. They fill in the gaps for me. And so I really love that we have these different unique strengths, and also this idea that we can see these strengths. I think I had seen some of my strengths as weaknesses. Or I just hadn't understood them. Why am I this way? Why do I do this, and why does it cause problems? And so, on both sides of that coin, learning to see myself differently is definitely helping my heart and my mind to align better. But also my heart to somebody else's heart is more in alignment, because I feel like I can see myself more clearly, and I'm learning to see others more clearly. Audrey Everything Lindsay just described — the alignment between her heart and mind — none of that happened because she found the right system or the right book. It happened because she found her people. And that is what I wanna talk to you about in this last conversation, because I think it might be the thing we underestimate the most. You can have the right framework, you can have the right principles, you can even have the desire to change, but without a community of women who share the language, who can tell you the truth when you ask for it, who will push back when you're lying to yourself, and cheer wildly when you're not — the growth is slower, lonelier, and so much harder to sustain. Brenda Haas has spent her career watching what happens when women build that kind of community with intention. She's built schools, coached founders. Her first homeschool was with her oldest when she was not even five years old. She traveled with her kids to places most people would think was impossible, and she'll tell you without hesitation that none of it would've happened if she had tried to do it alone. So listen up to Brenda.   Part Three: Brenda — Together, There's Nothing We Cannot Do Brenda There was a huge difference between before MDM and after MDM. So yes, you and I were connected, and I knew about MDM, and I was excited to get on that path and start that. And so I wanted to grab all these women that I loved — that were in my group, that I was so connected to. I loved their kids. I loved them. We all really knew what each other's values were and where we were coming from, and I was like, "Let's all do this journey together. Let's do it." And we did. That was an incredible year for us, and I think that one of the reasons why was because it was great content. The content itself really encouraged these great, deep conversations. And it wasn't fluff. It wasn't just this superficial, let's rehash the events of a book and let's see if we know what the timeline was and can name the characters of a fiction book. That was not what it was. It was actually discussing character and values, and how a character would apply to us, and how we saw our values mirrored in them or not mirrored in them — which led to deeper conversations, which led to this beautiful... There was a vulnerability that had to happen in the class, and that came over time. It's not like you just jump in with a group of people and automatically have that. But it did grow, and it grew steadily, and we were able to celebrate the things that were different in each other, and also celebrate the things that were similar, and honor each other. So we really learned to hold space for other people, and be excited about their stuff even if it wasn't our own, because we knew they would turn around and do the same thing. And I think that one of the things that I look back on — and I joke with my students now that I'm an old lady, right? Well, I'm 55, and we joke around about it, 'cause I'm older than their mothers, most of them. But I look at my 40s as this incredible time of growth for me, and MDM was a huge part of that. I felt like a grown-up when I was going through MDM. I felt like these are questions, and books, and content, and things that matter, and that are actually gonna make me a wiser person. So it was exciting to dig into it, and I saw the growth in myself, and it has made a huge difference in me. It also made a huge difference in our community, because I wanted the moms at the time — that were the moms of my children's friends — to have the same stuff that I had. To have that same stable platform and the confidence in who they were, because that gets passed on to their kids, and then to the family cultures, and then the community. It was beautiful. It was awesome.   Closing — Audrey Rindlisbacher Brenda, Lindsay, and Karen. I hope you enjoyed their amazing stories. And I can tell you that there are many other women with similar experiences who started working on themselves and then found that they were much more brilliant and capable and powerful than they ever imagined that they were. So with all of that in mind, I hope that this was inspiring to you. I hope it will help you on your own journey. And if you'd like to know more and you wanna better understand the program and the principles they learned that made this huge transformation in their lives, I'm gonna do a free training next week, June 11th, and it's gonna be 8:00 Eastern. It's called How to Stop Feeling Powerless and Become the Expert in Your Own Life. And we will dive into some of the frameworks and key concepts that you need to know in order to begin your own transformation like these women have had. I would love to have you join me there. The link is in the description, and you can also sign up at themissiondrivenmom.com. Thanks for joining me today, and I'll see you next time.

Resources Mentioned in Episode:  The Hiding Place by Corrie Ten Boom The Mission Driven Life by Audrey Rindlisbacher Visit TheMissionDrivenMom.com to download the free audio book of The Mission Driven Life   I want to tell you about a woman who changed my life. Her name was Corrie Ten Boom. And since I read her story for the first time in The Hiding Place, my life has never been the same. She was a fifty-year-old watchmaker in Holland when the German occupation began. Ordinary in almost every way. Small income. Simple life. No influence and no power And yet, she and her family saved the lives of over 800 Jews during World War II. When I knew all she and her family had sacrificed for absolute strangers, I wanted to know: "How do you build a family like that? How do you become the kind of person who, when the moment comes, risks everything to do what is right?” The answer, I've come to believe, is that Corrie wasn't trying to be a hero. She was just trying to be faithful. She loved God. She governed her heart and her mind. She learned to live by principle. She served the people right in front of her. And it multiplied into something that, eventually, the whole world felt. On this week's episode, I walk through Corrie's life. I demonstrate how she lived every single one of the 7 Laws of Life Mission, quietly and faithfully, long before the war ever came to her door. Here's a little of what you'll hear: The prayer she whispered in a stranger's living room that set everything in motion How she became the first licensed female watchmaker in Holland, and what that has to do with self-discovery The moment she used a Dale Carnegie principle to save her sister's life Why her story is proof that ordinary women can do extraordinary things This story is one of my favorites.   AI Generated Transcript The Mission-Driven Story of Corrie Ten Boom Welcome back to the podcast. I'm Audrey Rindlisbacher, author of The Mission Driven Life, founder of The Mission Driven Mom, and we get to do something really fun today, which I thought certainly we had done before, but I looked through the podcast, and we have not done it. We're going to do a mission-driven story of Corrie Ten Boom, a woman who absolutely changed my life. Reading The Hiding Place for the first time really was a total game changer for me. It shifted my mindset. It changed the way I thought about myself and my family and my life, changed my goal sets. It was really profound, and today, we're just going to touch on the life of Corrie Ten Boom as she lives those Seven Laws of Life Mission. We haven't done this for a little bit, so I'm super excited to get started. All right. Here's how I want to start, with a story that's really profound about her. A Story of Bravery: Corrie Ten Boom and the Jewish FamilyNear the beginning of the German occupation of Holland during World War II, Corrie Ten Boom, a 50-year-old spinster, was visiting Jewish friends. In the middle of their discussion, the children called from upstairs for their father to put them to bed. He quickly excused himself, and Corrie could hear their romping play and laughter. As she listened, reflecting on the deep love that was present in their home, a realization suddenly struck her with intense force. This family was in grave danger. More and more frequently, Jews were going missing from their homes and jobs, but now she awoke to the fact that this family, her dear friends, could be next. At any moment, the Gestapo could knock on this door, raid the house, and separate the family forever. With this awareness came an overwhelming sadness and an anxious desire to help. As she waited in their living room, she wondered what she could possibly do. Her life was simple, her income was small, and her resources were few. She felt she had little to give, yet she was willing to do what she could. In that moment of great bravery and generosity, she said a silent prayer and offered up all she had. "Lord, I offer myself for your people in any way, any place, any time." This family saved the lives of over 800 Jews during World War II voluntarily, when most of the people around them did not. They found out about the resistance, they joined, and they risked their lives and eventually gave their lives to save the lives of strangers. And what I wanted to know when I first read The Hiding Place was, how do you build a family like that? How do you build a life like that? How do you build a character like that, to be the person who would be different than all the people around you? I can't judge anybody that was there because I've never been through anything like that, and I genuinely don't know what I would do. But I wanted to be like the Ten Booms. I wanted to be the family, the individual, the mother, the woman that would welcome people into my home at the risk of my own life. And they eventually did. Many of the family members did give their lives for complete strangers. So I want to go through the life of Corrie Ten Boom and just touch on the Seven Laws of Life Mission and walk you through that path that the greats have followed to become the men and women who did change the world. Corrie wasn't out to change the world. Corrie was just trying to be the best woman she could be. She was trying to listen to her conscience and live by principle and follow God and His mandates and serve her fellow brothers and sisters on earth. And yet in that pursuit, their family became world famous and has changed the lives of millions of people, including me. So let's touch on these Seven Laws of Life Mission today through the lens of the life of Corrie Ten Boom and talk about some of her stories. And I'll give you some resources when we're done for how you can continue to learn more, because she's incredible. She was born in Amsterdam, Holland, on April 15th, 1892. And I want to just go through and tell you some stories from each of these times in her life about how she lived each of these laws.   Law One: Love God by Establishing Your Divine Center So Law One, of course, is to love God by establishing your divine center. And she definitely was someone who, from childhood forward, established her divine center in God. She said, "Love for the Jews was spoon-fed to me from my very youngest years." Daily prayer for the Jews began when Willem Ten Boom, her great-grandfather, started having daily prayers in their home for the Jews in 1844, and continued for three generations. For 100 years, until 1944 when they were arrested and put in concentration camps, they prayed every day. Not surprisingly, Corrie stated, "As a result, deep respect and love for the Jews became part of our home life." They knew that praying wasn't enough, though, and as Corrie herself later taught, "We never know how God will answer our prayers, but we can expect that He will get us involved in His plan for the answer. If we are true intercessors, we must be ready to take part in God's work on behalf of the people for whom we pray." So from the time that she was little, she was taught that prayer was vital, that she needed to read scripture daily, say prayers daily, and to be willing to do whatever God asked her to do. Her father, Casper, came downstairs every morning at 8:10 and gathered his family around him all the way through her twenties, her thirties, her forties, her fifties, because she never married and always lived at home. And they read scripture and prayed together every single morning.   Growing Up: Learning to Love God I want to tell you a couple of stories from Corrie's growing up years, experiences that she had that helped her better learn to love God. One day when she was disobedient in school and was sent to the headmaster's office, instead of going there, she ducked into a closet and waited hours for school to end. She was certain that she would be dismissed from the school and had no idea what she should do. She believed it would disgrace her father, as he had helped to found the school. When she heard the bell ring, she made for home as quickly as her legs would take her. Once there, she poured out her heart to her sister, Nollie. She told her everything. Then Nollie suggested that Corrie pray and ask for forgiveness. This was already a clear indication that at a young age, these girls had been taught key spiritual truths well and knew the importance of heeding them. Since forgiveness had been asked, Nollie had another idea that might help. She remembered her father's scripture reading and excitedly asked Corrie, "Do you remember that boring Psalm that Papa read at the table, where every sixth or seventh verse were the same words?" She quoted Psalms 107: "Then they cried unto the Lord in their trouble, and He saved them out of their distress." She said, "Why couldn't we do the same?" And so they did. The young schoolgirls, taking their father's words and example to heart and crying unto the Lord, fell asleep comforted. The next day, to her joy and great relief, Corrie met the headmaster, who only gave her a slight reprimand and sent her back to class. So when they were in trouble as young schoolgirls, they used spiritual principles and tapped into God's grace to help them overcome this problem that they had in school. So amazing.   First Love: Putting God's Will First When she was a bit older and she fell in love for the first time, this was an experience where she also had to learn to put God's will first in her life. During her high school years, a visit to her older brother in college led to a chance meeting with a friend of his named Karel. She was immediately captivated. Happily, Karel showed interest in return, and though they saw each other rarely, each time they met, the relationship deepened. After spending the day together at her brother's wedding, Corrie felt there was hope for a future with Karel. Months later, they connected again, walking and talking day after day, until, "Suddenly we were speaking not about what Karel was going to do, but about what we were going to do." Corrie knew then that Karel was the one for her. When the family returned home, they tried to gently help Corrie see that Karel came from a wealthy family and, although he may talk romantically with Corrie, he would marry within his social standing. Refusing to believe it, Corrie hoped on, even after Karel stopped returning her letters. Finally, the fatal day arrived when Karel brought his fiancee to meet the family. Devastated by the news, Corrie tried to keep her composure and be polite until she could escape to her room. There, she wept and wept until hours later when her father came to talk to her. He extended an invitation to Corrie: turn to God, let His will be done. "God loves Karel, and if you ask Him, He will give you His love for this man, a love nothing can prevent, nothing destroy." Corrie knew that if she was willing, if she truly loved God and knew His way was the best way, she would turn to Him and let His will be done. "My task just then was to give up my feeling for Karel without giving up the joy and wonder that had grown with it." She mustered all her strength, and with all her heart she whispered an enormous prayer: "Lord, I give you the way I feel about Karel. Give me your way of seeing Karel instead." God answered her prayer. The next time she saw Karel, Corrie realized that the pain was gone. Love was still there, and she could honestly wish for his future happiness. She also felt peace in what she believed to be God's path for her, to never marry or have children of her own. She was able to be willing and put God at the center of her life, come to know Him, and live and love His laws because she centered her life on God.   Law Two: Striving for Self-Mastery by Loving Yourself Now, Law Two is striving for self-mastery by loving yourself. A big part of self-mastery, a big part of loving ourselves, is self-discovery. So I'm going to tell you a couple of stories in Corrie's life from when she's younger and a little bit older, and she discovered some important things about herself. As a young girl, Corrie felt intense empathy for the poor and homeless that walked the streets near her home. With the encouragement of her parents, she prayed for them, and she tried to find ways to help them. Once, when Corrie saw a homeless but drunken, mentally ill tramp being teased and taunted by a group of children, Corrie stood up to them with such power that they quickly scattered. The tramp approached her and kissed her on the cheek. Far from scaring her, it endeared this man to her even more. "And a deep concern for the feeble-minded was fostered in me," she said. Little did she know that the seeds were being planted and traits developed that would enable Corrie to accomplish one of several missions she would eventually feel called to do, working with and teaching the mentally handicapped. Years later, when she was running her own program for the mentally handicapped, her father showed great reverence and respect for her work. He once told her, "Corrie, what you do among these people is of little importance in the eyes of men. But I'm sure in God's eyes it is the most valuable work in the world." Another way in which we learn to love ourselves better is we discipline our heart and mind. When Corrie was alone in her room grieving over losing the love of her life, her father gave her priceless counsel on how to face her trial: turn to God, forgive, and keep loving. He was right, and Corrie aligned her life with those truths and disciplined her heart and mind in order to better love herself.   Self-Discovery: Finding Her True Gifts One other instance I want to tell you about is when Corrie gained more self-discovery and learned something more important about herself. This took place years later when Corrie and Betsie, still unmarried and living at home, had assumed adult roles in the family. Betsie helped in the watch shop, and Corrie managed the household. Although they both enjoyed their work, when Betsie became ill and her illness lingered on for several months, it became necessary for Corrie to take over many of her duties in the shop. To their delight, they accidentally discovered that Betsie loved beautifying and caring for their home so much that she was sneaking out of her bed to clean, paint, and organize. In the meantime, Corrie couldn't get enough of managing customers, balancing the books, and learning watch repair. Their father was delighted with their discovery and encouraged them to make the change permanent, much to everyone's added happiness and fulfillment. And one of the things that came from this that's really remarkable is that in 1922, when she was 30 years old, Corrie became the first licensed female watchmaker in Holland. She loved it and did it for the rest of her life, until after the war when she assumed other duties.   Law Three: Love Truth by Living According to Principles Now, Law Three is to love truth, and this means that we live according to principles and align our lives with them. I want to tell you one instance where Corrie came to understand the nature of true principles and aligned her life with them. When she was a little girl, she and her best friend were troublemakers. She said, "I was no angel. Mischief was my middle name, and Dot, my cousin, was my best friend and a willing partner. If I didn't dream up a prank, she would." Then one of their pranks taught Corrie the importance of obedience to principles. One day, as they walked to school, Dot showed Corrie a dime she had found which was broken in half. This was a lot of money to them. They could buy 10 pieces of candy, a rare treat for poor girls. Without saying a word to each other, they proceeded together to the sweet shop on the way to school. They ordered their candy, and then Dot picked it up as Corrie arranged the dime on the counter, making it look like a whole piece of money. Then they bolted for the door. As they rounded the corner just outside the shop, they could hear the owner shouting at them. They ran even harder, never looking back. But Corrie learned her lesson. She later said, "We felt so guilty, and for weeks avoided going by the candy store. The candy didn't taste very good either." She committed herself to living a life of honesty after this experience. She had learned the importance of that true principle.   Law Four: Love Humanity by Becoming a Servant Leader Law Four is loving humanity by becoming a servant leader. Here's a really remarkable story about when Corrie used everything that she had learned, her self-education, her understanding of other people, her love for them, her self-discipline. All these ways in which she had lived the Laws of Life Mission came to bear in this particular instance when she was truly a servant leader. During World War II, Nollie, the only married Ten Boom daughter, lived with her husband and children in a home across town. In an effort to do what she knew to be right, she had risked her own and her family's lives by taking in several Jews. Eventually, her home was raided, the Jews were discovered, and she and the Jews were promptly arrested and imprisoned. After 10 days in the Haarlem jail, she was transferred to a federal prison. Through underground channels, information made its way back to Corrie that the doctor in the federal prison was humane and occasionally made arrangements for release of prisoners based on medical conditions. Corrie was determined to do what she could to try and ensure her sister's discharge from prison, so she went to visit the doctor. She thought, "But what could I say? How could I get into the good graces of this man?" As she pondered the difficult position she found herself in, Corrie remembered a principle she had recently learned from Dale Carnegie in her reading of How to Win Friends and Influence People. Carnegie had recommended that when you're trying to get to know someone, you should find out about their hobbies. She looked around the room and noticed three beautiful Doberman Pinschers in the lobby of the doctor's office. With her many years of experience in meeting new people, the German her father had so skillfully taught her, and this latest knowledge gleaned from a good book, Corrie made her introduction to the doctor impressive, sincere, and memorable. She said, "How smart of you, Doctor." "Smart?" "Yes, to bring these lovely dogs with you. They must be good company when you have to be away from your family." The doctor's face brightened. "You like dogs then?" They launched into a 10-minute discussion where Corrie racked her brain for everything she had ever heard or learned about dogs. This began an interaction that made a deep impression on the doctor. He could tell that Corrie genuinely cared about him, which caused him to care about her and her loved ones. Although he was taking a big risk, eventually he intervened on behalf of Nollie and had her released from prison for medical reasons. These are the fruits of living Law Four, of loving humanity and becoming a servant leader. Corrie could have come to the doctor in tears and pleaded her case. She could have focused entirely on her own fears and troubles, but she knew better than that. She was a servant leader. This was manifest in her ability to see the doctor's troubles and extend true empathy before she told him her own. She thought about his circumstances, serving his government in a foreign country, far away from family and home. She thought about what was interesting and important to him. She spoke to him in his native tongue, which put him at ease and made the conversation easy for him to carry on. She knew how to do things on his terms, to show genuine interest in him before she asked for anything in return. The reward was immense: the life of her beloved sister, Nollie.   Lifelong Learning as an Act of Love Another instance of loving humanity is to be a lifelong learner, to continue to expand our understanding of ourselves, of the world around us, and of the people that we interact with. Corrie was definitely a lifelong learner. After graduating from high school, Corrie knew that her lifelong learning was just beginning. She said, "I began to want to be somebody outside the protection of the Beje," her home. "The first thing I did was launch into an intensive study of many subjects." She didn't have the money to go on to college, but she knew her education shouldn't end. That had been modeled for her. Once, when she found herself sick in bed for five months, she used the time to further her education by studying her brother's college texts in religious history. This enabled her to discuss these ideas with him and her father, which she loved. She also attended missionary retreats every summer and was inspired through them to start a study group in her area. At one point, she also took time to study art and music on her own and visit all the museums of the famous Dutch masters. Later, when a Christian school opened in her area, Corrie eagerly signed up for seven classes and diligently studied. She expressed the long-term effect of her family's commitment to self-education when she said, "We all wanted to know more about other lands, different languages, and people from contrasting cultures. This interest was stimulated by visitors from many countries and by reading good books." One of the things that happened in the Ten Boom home was constant exposure to people of all different beliefs, worldviews, and world religions. Father held a book club for people of all different faiths. They prayed for the Jews daily. They read periodicals, magazines, and articles in multiple languages from multiple places around the world on multiple subjects, and then talked about those ideas with people that came to their home. And they loved all people. They did not care where they came from, what their beliefs were, whether they were poor or rich. They loved them all the same. What a beautiful example her parents set for loving humanity.   Law Five: Hear the Call Now, Law Five is to hear the call. And one of the first things that you have to do is know what God is calling you to do. Having accepted the fact that she would never marry, Corrie took classes, worked hard on her self-education, and cared for her mother for several years. She also worked in the watch shop full time. At about the time she took over the watch shop, she felt that she wanted more purpose in her life. She prayed, "Dear Lord, can you use me in some way?" God heard her desire and sent the answer. One day, while attending a meeting of the Christian Union of the Lady Friends of the Young Girl, Corrie was tapped on the shoulder by an older woman. "That's work for you, Corrie Ten Boom." "No time," Corrie answered, thinking of the house, the shop, the Bible studies in schools. "Talk it over with the Lord," the woman said. And that was exactly what Corrie did when she went to bed that evening. The next day, she told Betsie about the meeting and how the Lord had laid it upon her heart to do something about girls in their early teen years. Betsie loved the idea and was immediately on board. They put their heads together and began to make plans. She said, "We had no money, no experience, but we started." And that is what Law Five is all about: hearing the call.   Law Six: Courageously Execute And then, of course, Law Six: to courageously execute. They did start their girls' clubs. Corrie also started a group for the mentally handicapped. She had been doing Bible studies. She was continuing her lifelong learning. She was working in the family watch shop. There were many obstacles with these girls' clubs. When they started out and began their girls' club, they started at a park because they had nowhere else to meet. They would talk and play and then share a spiritual message with the youth, but it quickly became obvious that this was not a good permanent solution. They had no privacy, poor weather disrupted their meetings, and they struggled to keep the girls' attention. They had no money for a meeting room and didn't want to charge the girls any money, as some would be excluded from participating due to poverty. They asked around town about a possible location with no solutions forthcoming. What could they do? It would have been easy to stop there. She had heard the call. They had given it a go. She could just say, "Sorry, too bad, we can't do this." With no building to meet in, it looked as if the girls' club could go no further. Yet they persisted. They kept meeting. They kept asking, and they didn't give up. Miraculously, a benefactor who owned a home in town said he was willing to rent to them for an extremely small fee because he was impressed with the high moral purpose they were pursuing. With multiple rooms to use, the club could grow more quickly. Excitedly, they moved forward. They asked the girls what classes they would enjoy and used the smaller rooms of the building for these classes and the larger center room for everyone to meet together. Some girls wanted more athletic activities, so they rented a gym one night a week and worked out together. Corrie said of this time, "God bless the work. Yes, we made mistakes, but in spite of our blunders, the clubs grew in numbers and in strength." They continued to courageously execute. They went forward despite obstacles, despite people trying to stop them. They formed their own cooperative, which they called the Club of Friends. And in fact, their girls' clubs grew to be an international organization. It crossed borders. They had several thousand girls involved in other countries as well. It was a really remarkable work.   Law Seven: Do It Again and Again And then World War II hit. And like I began this podcast, Corrie devoted herself to the Jewish people any place, any time, doing anything that God would call on her to do. And so they lived Law Seven: doing it again and again. They started harboring Jews. They eventually saved the lives of over 800 people. And by February of 1944, they were betrayed. The home was invaded, and they were arrested. By the next month, their father was put in prison, and he died there. By June of that year, Corrie and Betsie were placed in a concentration camp. And in September of that year, they were moved to Ravensbruck, a very famous, large concentration camp. There are many beautiful stories of the miracles that took place when they were in these concentration camps and the way that they were able to spread the word of God and read scripture together. There is this beautiful episode where Betsie tells Corrie to thank God for the fleas and to thank God in all things. Corrie doesn't want to, and she finally learns later on why that was so important. And then by the end of that year, Betsie died in the concentration camp, and Corrie was miraculously released on a clerical error. She went home. She tried to engage in the work again, because the war didn't end until mid-1945. She found that she couldn't do the work, and she knew for sure that God had been helping her to do the work before. She then started going around and speaking and sharing a message of forgiveness. As the war ended, she could see that people needed to learn to forgive and to rebuild their lives. Betsie had a beautiful vision in prison about a home that they would acquire to help victims of the war, and that miracle did come to pass. Corrie started this home for war victims, and then she began traveling the world. She was invited to speak over and over again. She had her own journey of forgiveness, and she shared that message with others. In 1953, she published her first book, Amazing Love, and then in 1971 the famous book that spread across the globe, The Hiding Place, with millions of copies sold. In 1988, their home, the Beje, was turned into a museum, and Corrie eventually immigrated to California, where she died in her nineties. A truly mission-driven life.   Closing Thoughts and Resources A woman devoted to God, to His natural laws and principles, to a life of mission, of hearing calls and answering them, of devoting her life to making the world a better place. And she didn't try to change the world. She just changed herself. She governed her heart and her mind. She found principles and lived according to them. She became a true servant leader and served those around her, those that she could serve. And eventually, their path, their mission, their work has changed millions of lives. So if you want to learn more, I would recommend my book, The Mission Driven Life. Go grab a copy of that. We still have the audio available for free on the website at themissiondrivenmom.com. It is going to come down soon, so take advantage of that if you haven't already gone and grabbed your audio copy. It will teach you those Seven Laws of Life Mission and take you through a lot more stories of Corrie and her whole family living these laws and so many miraculous stories. My book focuses on their lives before World War II. And then read The Hiding Place for the story of what happened to them leading up to those last couple of years before World War II and all of their experiences during the war and beyond. Corrie Ten Boom is an amazing example, someone who has changed my life. Many nights I go to bed, and when I climb into bed, I think of her side by side with Betsie on those wooden rafters in the concentration camp with nothing, having given her life over to God and thereby bringing so many souls to Him. It's just incredible the life that she lived, and I try to be grateful for my blessings and remember how much others have sacrificed to make the world a better place on my behalf. I hope that her story has been inspiring to you. I hope that you'll pick up those two books and go learn more at themissiondrivenmom.com. They will give you Corrie's whole story as well as the whole Ten Boom family. And you can learn better how you can begin to walk that path of life mission yourself and plug into those Seven Laws and be transformed by them and follow in the footsteps of her and many other great men and women. Be an ordinary person, just like I am, who is empowered to do extraordinary things through these beautiful laws. Thank you so much for joining me today, and I will see you next time.  

Resources Mentioned in Episode: Mothers of Creation - Join us September 26th in Provo, Utah | Use coupon code MOTHER at checkout to receive $50 OFF | Expires at midnight on Monday, 5/18   It's my birthday today. And every year, since it falls right around Mother's Day, this ends up being one of the most self-reflective times of year for me. So today I want to tell you a story. My story. I grew up in a home full of love, but books weren't part of our culture.  I made it through twelve years of public school without ever hearing of Anne of Green Gables, the Little House series, or Narnia. And then my senior year, I got a teacher who actually wanted to make me think.  We read The Brothers Karamazov, and that book cracked something open in me that I didn't even know was closed. It took almost ten more years (and three babies) before I found the kind of education that asked the right question. Not what did you learn but how is this supposed to change you? That question changed everything. On this week's episode I share all of it: where I came from, what I was missing, and the dream I carry for every mom who finds her way to this work. Here's a little of what you'll hear: The one teacher who finally asked me the right question  Why working on yourself is the least selfish thing you can do for your children The dream I hold for our culture and what becomes possible when moms start thinking differently I invite you to listen to this episode. I’ve never shared this part of my journey and I hope it resonates with something inside you.   AI Generated Transcript It's My Birthday, and I Have a Dream I Need to Tell You About It's my birthday today. And every year it lands right around Mother's Day, so this time of year tends to make me really reflective. I find myself thinking about where I've been, where I'm going, and what I really want for the women in my life -- including you. I want to tell you a story today. A personal one. And then I want to share a dream with you -- a dream I've been carrying for a long time.   I Was a Decent Student Who Asked All the Wrong Questions All growing up, I was a pretty decent student. I didn't love school, but it was just part of the reality around me. It was the world I lived in. It was what everybody did. You get up in the morning, you go to school, you do the homework, you pass the test. That's just the nature of reality, right? By the time I got to high school, though, I was pretty disenchanted by the whole experience. I started asking the questions that so many of us ask: Why in the world do I need to study calculus? Who cares what year the French and Indian War started? Why does Hamlet matter so much? And I did what everybody does. I kept going. I kept doing the work so I could get into a good college, because somewhere along the way I'd come to believe that college was the real goal of it all. That's where education got good. That's where learning was actually fun. And then my senior year, something happened.   The Teacher Who Changed Everything I got a teacher who was different from any other teacher I'd ever had. He wanted to make us think. And he cared about what I thought. It was the first time in my 12 years of public education that I began to ask the right question -- how my learning was supposed to change me. We read The Brothers Karamazov by Fyodor Dostoevsky, and that book changed my life. I know that might sound dramatic, but you have to understand where I came from. My father grew up in a tiny town with a graduating class of 10 people. He went to one semester of college, then came home and married his high school sweetheart. After five children and about 11 years, when their marriage was failing, he met my mom. My mom also came from a small town. Her father was an alcoholic who had abandoned the family, and she had one sibling -- a sister who was schizophrenic. She, her mother, and her sister scraped by all growing up. They cooked on a wood-burning stove in the 1960s. My grandmother never even learned to drive. When my parents married and had five more children together -- I'm the oldest of that group -- with no good income-earning skills and a growing family to provide for, we struggled financially, especially when I was young. Now, I want to be clear about something. There was a lot of love in my home. I never thought of myself as poor or going without things. My older siblings from my dad's first marriage visited every summer, and I always looked forward to seeing them. But the net result of all of it -- the backgrounds of my parents, the circumstances we were in -- was that lifelong learning, self-education, and reading were simply not part of the culture in our house. I knew my mom sometimes read romance novels. My dad would occasionally mention a sales or self-help guru he was following. But I don't remember there being very many books in our home at all.   I Didn't Even Know Anne of Green Gables Was a Book In college, the Anne of Green Gables series was released, and my girlfriends gathered for a sleepover to binge-watch them all night. It was only at that sleepover that I even heard of Anne of Green Gables. I had no frame of reference for that whole experience. I had never heard of or read the Little House books. I thought it was a TV show. I had never heard of the Narnia series. These were books that were left out of the public school program, so I was never introduced to them. And that is why, when I read The Brothers Karamazov, it hit me so hard. I didn't know that books like this existed. Books that spoke to the deepest parts of me. Books that discussed the most important questions of life. Books about people who were seeking truth, grappling with real temptations and real struggles. I had no idea the impact that true classics could have on a person. I didn't know they could help me understand myself, build my character, or become better. It was honestly pretty magical. And the only thing that had ever spoken to me in that same way before was scripture.   Thirty Years Old, Three Babies, and Just Getting Started After high school, it took me almost ten years to discover liberal arts education. There I was, 30 years old with three babies in tow, just getting started on my real education. But it didn't matter. Because I knew it could give me what The Brothers Karamazov had given me: truth, virtue, beauty, character, and deep personal growth. So that's my story. And here's my dream.   My Dream for You (and for All of Us) My dream is that every mother and every woman would have what I received. You and I both know that our culture is declining. We see it in the media, in our educational programs, even in our leaders -- things moving further and further away from what is right and true and good. We worry about our children. We worry about the future. And so many of us feel powerless to change any of it. Who am I? I can't tell you how many times I've asked myself that. I'm just one person. Just a stay-at-home mom. Just a working mom. Just a single mom doing her best to hold everything together. I can't fix the world. I can't even fix dinner. But here's the irony. When we work on ourselves, we make our culture better. Because we raise the next generation, and they are watching us every single day. Who we are, who we are becoming, and the example we are setting -- it means everything to them. And to our culture. And the best part? We don't have to do this alone. We can link arms and lift ourselves and lift our families, and that will lift the culture.   What We Were Never Taught (and Why It Matters So Much) Here's what I know. You and I did not get the education that empowers us to discern and live by truth. We were not taught how to take the best works ever written and harness their lessons for our lives. We didn't receive the training we deserve -- to be self-educating for life, to know what to read and how to read it, how to discern truth in our culture, and how to be changed for the better by it. We weren't taught the tools for understanding and practicing principles. And that deficiency in our education -- that gap in our ability to meet our real mental and spiritual needs -- is a huge roadblock in our personal growth. It makes it harder to lead ourselves and our families with confidence and clarity and purpose. So my dream is that every woman and mother will learn how to think differently. Because when we think differently, our beliefs change. And when our beliefs change, everything changes. My dream is that our families will be strengthened and our communities will be blessed. That there will be more truth and goodness in the world because of our presence in it -- as mission-driven women who know how to harness truth to heal ourselves, our families, our communities, and the world.   Come Spend the Day With Me This September So please join me. Please take your education and your personal growth more seriously. Please link arms with us in making the world a better place. I know we can do it -- one mother, one woman at a time. And if you're ready to start, I'd love to invite you to spend the day with me this September in Utah at our Mothers of Creation conference. You will be surrounded by women just like you -- on this same mission to develop themselves and link arms in lifting our culture. You will leave with renewed hope and excitement, not just for your own future, but for the future of our nation and our world. You'll walk away with real skills, tools, and principles for putting your own life in better order. And I promise you will leave empowered with clarity about your next steps -- and new friends to walk the path with you. As my birthday present to you, I'm offering $50 off -- but only through tonight. The link is in the description. Thank you for being here. Thank you for caring. I'll see you next time.

Resources mentioned in the episode: Mothers of Creation, Provo, Utah - September 26th Encore Training: How to Stop Feeling Powerless and Become the Expert in Your Own Life   I want to introduce you to Lindsey. She's a mother of five, a homeschooler, and one of the most principled women I know. But when she first came to MDM, she described herself the same way so many of us do. Floundering. A little lost. A little depressed. She had accomplished everything she had set out to do and then stood there wondering, okay, now what? On this week's episode, Lindsey shares what changed for her. And I think you're going to hear yourself in her story. Here's a little of what she talks about: The moment she learned the difference between a victim and a creator, and realized, uncomfortably, which one she had been How she went from avoiding hard conversations to having them with clarity and courage What happened in her relationship with her oldest daughter when she stopped expecting her to be just like her Why she says MDM helped her get her heart and her mind to finally talk to each other What it felt like to walk into a room of women who actually understood her and say for the first time, I found my people That last one is so incredibly precious. Because I know how rare it is. And I know how much it changes everything when you finally have it. Come listen. Because Lindsey's story is the kind that can shift something inside you.   AI Generated Transcript Audrey: Welcome back to the podcast. I am Audrey Rindlisbacher, author of The Mission- Driven Life and founder of the Mission-Driven Mom. And like I have been talking about, we are hearing from some women who are going to share their experiences with learning to better love themselves and God, and the impact that had on their relationships, their community immediately around them, and the larger community around them. Audrey: Today, we have Lindsay Wright, who it is an honor to know. For those of you that get involved or have been involved in MDM, she is a mentor for us, head mentor, and she helps train the mentors. She is incredible, but she had her own journey with these principles, like we all do. And so we are going to begin at the beginning with her story and have her start by talking to us about who she is. Tell us a little bit about yourself, Lindsay, and then where you were at before MDM.   Lindsay's Background and Early Motherhood Lindsay: Sure. Thanks for letting me be on the podcast. I love the opportunity. It is hard to remember what life was like before, so I am a mother of five. My oldest is almost twenty-four. And then my youngest is twelve. And you have talked about this a lot, too, in those early days of motherhood, when they were all young. I loved it. That was my dream job, to be a mother. In fact, I had some big goals for life. I wanted to be a mom, I wanted a college degree. I had those big goals, and I had accomplished all of them by the time I was in my twenties. After that, you are in the thick of mothering, which is fantastic. But I did feel like I was floundering a little bit. And you have talked about this before, and I resonate with it, that you get lost a little bit in motherhood. It is consuming, and it is often thankless, although everybody appreciates the mother. They do not always say it. But I just remember floundering, I think that would be the word. Just not knowing what to do or where to spend my time and feeling a little lost. Maybe even a little bit depressed. I just did not know, okay, where do I go from here? Discovering MDM and Level One Lindsay: Joining the MDM community and going through Level One changed that dramatically. In Level One, it starts with the idea of natural law, like these principles that there is truth and that we can know it, and that we can use it to make the changes that we want to make and to know what those changes even are. And so in Level One, you are putting yourself together. You are making your physical needs a priority. You are making your mental needs a priority. You are studying; you are learning. That intellectual stimulation really is meaningful and gives life a lot of meaning as you are learning, as you are making friends and discussing things, and putting your spiritual house in order. And then one of my favorite parts of Level One is just the self-discovery. So learning, what am I good at? What are my natural strengths? How can I develop them? How can I use them to help other people, like we said, to influence the culture for good? It was just life-changing.   The Drama Triangle Audrey: So, can you give us a specific story, or event, or principle that you feel like made a difference for you? Lindsay: I remember when we were learning about the drama triangle. That was such a paradigm shift for me, just to have the words for it. That creator is the opposite of a victim. And I did not necessarily think that I was a victim. I did not think that I was steeped in a victim mentality. But I was in the middle of some big drama at the time, and it was so helpful to see the different roles that were being played and the different roles I was playing in the drama cycle. And to know what to do to change that. So that was a big deal. And I am still learning. I am still working on it. There are still multiple subtle ways that we show up in this victim orientation every day. And so I am super excited. I have been diving deep into different ways of being a victim, and it has been fun to just get more depth in my understanding of the drama cycle and how to be a creator. Audrey: Lindsay has been mentoring our Mothers of Creation group. When you get a ticket to the event this fall, then you are in an online community with us, and she is mentoring that group. And so it has really been a lot of deep diving into those principles and phenomenal concepts being talked about. So that has been awesome.   Communing with Yourself and God Audrey: This idea of the root word of "commune" and what it means to commune better with ourselves, to commune better with God, to have better communication with ourselves and with God, and then the extension of having better communication and community around us. So before we head into the community piece, I am curious, first of all, how do you feel like your relationship with yourself transformed? How did that communing and that better communication, the principles that we work on at MDM, what can you articulate about the change in yourself? Lindsay: I think for me it has been a journey of getting my heart and my mind to talk to each other. Audrey: What do you mean by that? Lindsay: Our heart is where our values are. That is where we feel things. That is where we have desire and motivation. And then in our mind is the logic and the reason and all those things that we associate with the intellectual life. And I have always been very much in my mind, very intellectual. That is just how I approached the world. Give me a book, tell me what to do, so I can know what to do. And through the academy, I am learning, and I am still learning, how to tap more into the heart, how to tap more into my values. Like, I know what my values are. But how do I pay attention to those feelings? How do we know we are in drama? It starts with a feeling. How do we relate with people? It starts with the heart. And for me, it is that communication between the heart and mind that is a better way to approach life, with both of them being active instead of just the one. Audrey: Fascinating. So would you say that part of that process has been to align your thoughts more with who you really are or what you really value? Lindsay: Yeah, for sure. Like I said, we get to know ourselves on a deeper level in Level One. And so understanding my unique strengths and also the strengths of others, because we are not the same. And I think sometimes in the past I had thought my way is the best way, and I expected everybody to be like me. And so now I have this greater appreciation that I really appreciate when people are not like me, because they bring balance to me. They fill in the gaps for me. And so I really love that we have these different, unique strengths. Also, this idea that we can see these strengths. I think I had seen some of my strengths as weaknesses, or I just had not understood them. Why am I this way? Why do I do this, and why does it cause problems? And so really, on both sides of that coin, learning to see myself differently is definitely helping my heart and my mind to align better. But also, my heart to somebody else's heart is more in line because I feel like I can see myself more clearly, and I am learning to see others more clearly. Audrey: So, how does it help you see others more clearly? How has the development of your relationship with yourself and these principles that you have learned, how has that bled over into your other relationships? Lindsay: Part of it is that I do not expect others to be like me, like I said. So simple, but so profound. And I want to add that it is not just, I think a lot of us might say that truth, and I think people listening might be like, “Yeah, of course.” But there is something very profound and permanent that happens when you actually understand the ways that we are different. You do not expect them to be like you because you understand truly, deeply that there are different ways for other people to fundamentally be, and that there is value in that, and that it is important that they are that way. So often, we take our way of being, and we think it is the only way, the right way, because it works for us, and we elevate our applications to the level of principle. And then we start judging other people because we are saying, oh, they are not living the principle. And actually, it is just a different application. And as I learned to see myself clearly, then I can start to see that difference in application. I can see where we are the same, I can see where we can build those bridges. But then I can also value the differences in others. And I think this is something I have just realized recently, because I am seeing myself more clearly, I do not need others to validate me. I do not need others to be like me. I am just comfortable being me. And that just, it is just like letting go of a lot of baggage. It is just a lightness, a confidence in my way of being. And I am still learning. I am so far from perfect. But yes, there is a self-acceptance there.   The Mission Statement and Building Bridges Audrey: You mentioned something, and I was thinking about what you were saying just now, and how at one point, I remember a few years ago, you bought, is it a painting or a picture of a bridge? And there was something about that that resonated with you. What was that? Lindsay: It is actually a part of my mission statement. I came across this idea of bridges in Level Three of the Academy. This idea that is how we can have influence for good, is when we can see the things that we agree on, that we can see the things that are the same. It builds a bridge of understanding. And it allows us to work together. It allows us, it is that thing that allows us to appreciate the differences. And so I actually made it part of my mission statement. Audrey: Let us hear it. Lindsay: Here is my mission statement: Seek and speak truth with love. Build bridges through education. Strengthen faith, freedom, and family through servant leadership. So that idea of the bridge just has all those different meanings in it for me. It is a place, it helps us to move, it helps us to get from one side to the other. And for me, education is one of the ways that we get to the other side. It is one of those ways that we learn to build the bridges. Audrey: There are two things I was thinking when you were saying that. It is such a beautiful image for the bridges we all want to build with the people in our lives that we want to be closer to. And the sense of greater community, being able to cross back and forth and connect with anyone and build those relationships or heal relationships or improve relationships that seem stuck or stale or injured. And it is such a beautiful idea that as we see ourselves more clearly and as we understand the ways that everyone is different, we actually feel more unity. It is so much like the body that Paul talks about in the Bible, that we are all part of the body, we are all needed, whether you are an ear or a finger, each one is important and valuable. And the kinds of tests and assessments that we take in Levels One and Two are really eye-opening for that in a practical sense. But I was also thinking about how you were saying that you aligned your heart and your mind, and that you see the value of building these bridges to build greater levels of community and to build relationships. And what is actually happening to you in all of these different ways is that you are thinking differently. And that is one of the things that we talk about a lot. A lot of people are telling all of us to be different. There are a lot of influencers in this information age, and they are saying you need to do this, that, or the other. But we are clearing out all of that. Like you talked about, the difference between principle and application, is someone's recommendation a principle or an application? How do you discern that? And once you know it is a principle, how do you apply that properly and how can you use those principles that you learn to change the way that you think? Because if you change the way that you think, then you change the way you believe. And those new, better, healthier beliefs that better align with truth then naturally bring about those healthier relationships. Lindsay: Yeah, exactly. Impact on Family Relationships Audrey: So how would you say all of this has impacted your home, the relationships in your home, the little community that you are in every day? Lindsay: I think it has helped save those relationships at home. My oldest daughter, in particular, we are very different, and it was causing a lot of contention. Before, I learned to recognize in what ways are we the same. I had to start there. What is going well? What is good about this other person? Where are we the same? How can I understand this other person? But then also add that other element of, okay, here is where we are different, and here is why, and here is why that might cause a little bit of conflict. And then here is how we resolve it. And so it was thinking differently about that relationship in particular. But then it is every child on down the line. I feel like I have been able to see the good in them because they are all different. I have five children that are all completely different, and I have been able to see the good in them, to help them to see their strengths, to help them work through false beliefs, to help them understand these core ideas that will help them to be successful, that will help them to be happy. And I feel like instead of being an emotional voice, I am more of a voice of reason. I feel like they listen to me and respect the things I say. They do not always agree with what I say. But there is a level of respect there because I think they have come to learn that mom is going to come to this in a principled way, and I can trust her. I do not have to agree with her application. But it has been a strength, I hope, for all of my kids. Audrey: Oh, I love that. And one of the things that we talk about sometimes that I think we have both experienced in our homes is it takes away much of the friction, because exactly what you were saying, that now everyone is on a unified hunt to get at the heart of what is really going on and to see a principle that everyone can then do something about, instead of this push and pull of, I am right, you are wrong, or it is my way versus your way. And fighting down at that level of application rather than principle. And once they get that, because I am sure your home is a lot like mine has been, over time this language of principles starts to infuse the home. And then you have a better way of talking about what is going on and what the problems are. Lindsay: And not being afraid to confront the things that need to be confronted. If there really is a problem, in the past I would have avoided it, and the problem would have just kept getting bigger. I am an avoider. That is one of the ways to be a victim. And now, because my thinking has changed, because I have a more solid foundation and principles to back up the things that I want, I have more courage to do the hard things that need to be done, to have those hard conversations that sometimes need to be had. I have more clarity about what actually needs to be said or what needs to be changed and why it needs to be changed. It is not just because I said so, but it is actually because this is causing disorder in our family. That is how we know a principle is being broken, right? Because you get the contention, you get the disorder, you have this lack of peace. And so to be able to recognize it and then have the courage to deal with it and to know what to do to deal with it, I think has been very empowering. Audrey: That is awesome. What is it that gives you the courage? Why do you think your courage has increased? Lindsay: For me, I think it is the principles. It is knowing those things that we ought to do, those things that will, in the long term and often in the short term, lead to peace and happiness and success. Just knowing that there is an answer and that we can know it. Audrey: Yes. And a corollary for me has just been hope. I am much less likely to fall into despair and to feel like I am broken or that the situation is broken. In fact, I have someone close to me right now who is really struggling in their relationship with themselves, and it has taken a while for me to help them see that that is actually the root of the problem. And it is so interesting because they finally recently have been coming to terms with, I actually do not really like myself. I have a problem in my relationship with myself. And then they started saying, but now I do not know what else. That is all I know. That is the head I have been living in all these years. Lindsay: And it served them, right? They developed those behaviors and those thoughts because at one point it seemed to be helpful. It was a coping mechanism. I have those too, and I have had to learn that I do not have to create stress in order to get things done. I do not have to white-knuckle my way through everything. I actually can trust, and like you said, lean into that hope. And so those old thoughts are no longer serving me. And I can do things differently, and then we can show our kids, yes, that thought served you in the past, it protected you, it helped you get through things. But you are different now, and so you can think differently now. Audrey: And it is so interesting because they got to this point of accepting that there was a problem, and I could see their countenance lift a little bit, like, oh, maybe there is hope. But then this worry of, but I do not know what to do. I do not know what to make different. And I was like, look, frankly, you are past the hardest point. Accepting that you do need to change, and that in fact you have misbeliefs and wrong beliefs and that they are not serving you anymore, and that it is time to make a change, is actually the hardest point to get to. Just like admitting that you have been acting like a victim can be the hardest point to get to. And actually, with some decent tools and a little bit of guidance, with some good principles, now that you know you have been believing lies, now you can just believe the truth. You can just find and acquaint yourself with the truth and start thinking more of the truth, more of the time, and it will start to correct itself. Audrey: So really beautiful. Okay. It has had this positive impact on your relationships in a myriad of ways, creating more unity, creating more self-acceptance, and courage on your end. So harder conversations have been had, more principles have been lived, and you have had a lot more acceptance of not just yourself, but of the people around you as a consequence of better accepting yourself, which is ironic. You felt more unity, more sense of community unity. Unifying the identities, like we talk about.   Community Outside the Home Audrey: So let us talk about the community outside your home, relationships with friends, with extended family members. I know that you homeschool and you have a homeschool community, and some of them have been involved as well. And then you do things at church. What stories or experiences come to mind in terms of, as you have been lifted, you have been able to lift your family, and it has also lifted the greater community around you in some important ways? Lindsay: Yeah, so I think the biggest thing that I see is that I have the ability to influence for good. I have learned to say things, to articulate things with a focus on the principles. And so people are more likely to first of all listen to what I am saying, but then also recognize, “Oh, that is right, that is good, that is a good point.” So for example, just recently, I am in my homeschool community. I used to be in more of a leadership position, but right now I just teach classes. And I recently have been helping to create our class schedule for next year. And I could see, because of my experience, and I have been with this community for a long time. I am one of the oldest families there, probably been there as long as or longer than most. I have taught and I have done the leadership positions, so I have some experience. I can see things. Plus I have this great education that I am getting through MDM and through the classics, through the great books. I can see patterns of human behavior and I can see the principles, what is going to lead to long-term success and happiness and stability. And so I felt that as we were in a committee discussing these classes for next year, I was able to provide some really powerful insights and things to think about. I brought up vision. Where are we going? What is our vision? What is going to create that stability? Whose responsibility is it to get an education? First of all, it is the student's responsibility. But for a child, the parent is also responsible. So I was able to say things like, how can we put the responsibility back where it belongs? Because some of the systems and some of the policies have gotten away from the original vision, and they have gotten away from putting the responsibility where it belongs. Understanding the role of the community and the role of the classes and the role of the teachers and the role of the student. Just a clarity. So I feel like I was able to bring a lot of clarity and a lot of good questions to the conversation and to help people see things that maybe they were not aware of or had not seen before. And I think that is true in all these relationships outside of my family. I have learned to say things in that principle-centered way. I have learned to be articulate, and plus I am confident in myself. I do not need their approval, I do not need their validation. They can disagree with me. They could not do it. But I am able to influence and to uplift and hopefully make things better in any area that I am working in. Audrey: So you were able to lead out with principles and articulate some principles which then created shared truths that would resonate with them, so that you could bring them on board to some core truths and then ask empowering questions, principled empowering questions, that helped them to explore possibilities and to think a little bit better about how things could be different. And what did you feel like came out of your ability to now better articulate those principles and to bring them back to truths in their pursuits? Lindsay: I think that is what surprised me the most, that since I started the MDM Academy and as I have continued to get a really great education, the thing that surprised me is that people actually do listen. They actually want to hear the things that I say, and they generally agree with them. Oh, you are right. It is those first principles that are these intuitive things written on our heart. And all you have to do is just point them out and people are like, oh yes, that makes sense, that is so much more clear. Lindsay: And so I feel like, why would anybody listen to me? I am just a mom. All those things. The fateful words, just a mom. But I have these experiences and I know I have this ability to influence, to lift, to encourage, to make things better. And things that seem obvious to me, just because I have been living with this new way of thinking for so long, are not obvious to everybody else. And so I do feel like I am somebody that has something to offer, and that people listen and they want to hear what you have to say because it resonates, because you are speaking in truths. Audrey: That is incredible. That is so powerful, and I am so glad that you said it the way that you said it. Because I get it, for those who are listening, if you are totally where Lindsay and I were at and it is like, do not even talk to me about being a leader and being an influence and helping my community, because I am so steeped in what is going on at home and I feel so overwhelmed on the daily that I cannot even. And that is okay. That is totally okay, because we have experienced it firsthand. We know, we get it. That is what motivated us to start doing the work. It is just that when you learn to think in principled ways, people will just naturally seek out your leadership, your help, your insights, your meaningful questions, your feedback, because it is so needed, so rare, so different from the other voices that they are hearing. It resonates with them so much, and they know how badly they need it. And it nurtures something in us because it is written on our hearts, because it is how we were created. And people know intuitively that they need more of that and they have not known where to find it. And then you start providing this new perspective and way of looking at things and it is so refreshing because it is not divisive. You are not calling anybody out, you are not making any judgements. You are not telling people that they are wrong and they need to change. You are simply saying, let us look at it this way. Let us get down to fundamentals. Let us start from the ground up and then let us figure out what truths we share, how we can build on them, and what applications are best for our community.   Church and Leadership Audrey: Whether that is your church community, because I know you have also brought these principles into your church community, and I know it has made a difference there. And I got an email the other day from a student who was so gracious and sweet. She just said, I just got asked to do some leadership in my church, and I would never have been able to do this a few years ago. And I am a little bit, honestly, a little above my pay grade still. But I am excited for the opportunity, excited to bring the principles in, and I only have the self-acceptance and the confidence and the courage to do it because I have learned to think so differently. And I am excited to bring that to bear in that situation. Lindsay: And it is interesting as we start and continue on this journey, those experiences and those opportunities just seem to show up. That next level of growth that you need just falls into your lap one day and you learn and you grow and you lead out and you serve. And then the next thing shows up. But it just happens naturally. It is not forced. It just becomes a natural outgrowth. I feel like the opportunities in my life right now are just a natural outgrowth of who I am becoming.   Uprooting False Beliefs Audrey: I think it is a fantastic journey. I love it. It reminds me of something I have been building out in this training we did once and are going to do as an encore. Links are in the description for those that want to come. I was combing through some old testimonials and one of the women was saying that the academy requires a vulnerability and self-honesty that can feel scary, but it is really because we are pulling up the roots. We really are getting at the heart of things. And when you root out the lies you have been telling yourself and the misbeliefs you have about yourself and about God and about the world and about others, and you clear that up, other things just start to clear up and it creates room for more of those things that you need. And then you know yourself better, and you look around you and you can see. I hear often from women who have been through Level Three and graduated, and they are doing so many incredible things, holding retreats and putting schools together and serving in their communities and nonprofit organizations and helping the homeless. And it is not, so often when we do not have that self-acceptance and self-love and we do not know our gifts and talents and we have not worked to develop them and we are not principled in our thinking, it is so easy to still see the need maybe, but just shrink from it and be certain, I could never do that. But there is this new level, and that is why as we work on ourselves and we raise the quality of the relationship we have with God and ourselves, then it enhances the relationships in our home, and then there is more unity there, and then there are more people helping and more people encouraging. Audrey: And I would guess you have had this experience, Lindsay, but I have been surprised on multiple occasions where my kids are almost pushing me out the door like, no, you can do this, offering their encouragement, and saying yes, we are excited for you, yes, this is awesome, yes, you can do this. Lindsay: They love me and our relationships are better, so that is part of it. But I know that part of it is also that we are so intimately linked. They see themselves in their parents, right? Like we take a cue from our parents, and when our parents are more adventurous, when they are taking more risks, when they are more confident, when they are making a difference, it heightens our children's confidence too. Like, I am part of them. I come from them. If they could do that, maybe I could. Maybe that could be me. Maybe there is more to me than I thought. Maybe I could level myself up as well. That example is so priceless, and you just cannot put a value on it. It is a gift, and they want you to succeed because it means they are more likely to succeed too. Your success is their success too. And so it is a beautiful journey to bring them along on the projects that you feel called to and that you engage in, whether people are asking you or whether you are stepping out and offering yourself. They are both needed and beautiful, and it is such a gift that we give them that they see us doing these hard things and they see our example. Lindsay: And yes, they are rooting for us. And they see the change that has happened in us. And then they have that hope that they can do those things for themselves. And that is one of the questions that comes up, how can I spend time doing this academy thing and not being with my children? Does it leave my family out? It feels like mission excludes motherhood. And it is true that it does take a little bit of time away from the family. If I have to read something, I have to step away. But when I come back to the family, I am better. And then that allows them to be better. And then like you said, we just bring them along and now we are all better together. But I had to lead out as the mom. I had to change me first before I could have that kind of influence in my family.   Personal Friendships and the MDM Community Audrey: So let us, unless you have other stories that you want to tell, I would love to, before we finish up, hit on your personal friendships. One of the things that has been one of the biggest surprises to me, and you were there, helping all along the way, building out this curriculum, and I gathered up all the best stuff that had helped me, and of course I just hoped it would help women. One of the things that surprised me the most is the caliber of women that it has attracted. And that is not because all the best women sign up. I think it is just because they become the best women. But I would love to hear your personal experiences with your MDM community, your MDM friendships and the quality of those, what difference it has made for you in your personal life to be just part of this group of women who are on this journey together. Lindsay: It is a lot of fun to have friends, to have a group of women that we have a common language with. First of all, we can talk about things like the drama cycle, like empowering questions, like telling yourself the truth. And we understand what we are talking about. So we can have those kinds of conversations. We also have in common that we have learned these things and we have studied these things and we are trying to get this kind of education. And so the conversations that we have are not just, how is the weather? It is meaningful, deep, transformational, even, conversations when we come together. And I get this perspective and this perspective, and then we come together, okay, what is the truth? And how are we going to live that? And so it is energizing, I think, to just rub shoulders with this caliber of women who are strong and confident and doing good things in their homes and doing good things in their communities. And their example inspires me. Just like our children are inspired by our example, these women inspire me. I want to be better and to do better. And so it is really, I think energizing is a good word for it. Audrey: Yeah. And comforting. Lindsay: Yes. And comforting. You are not alone, because there is a level of vulnerability required. We try to bring that into our workshops as well and to our community feed. And we do not, of course, everyone only shares as much as they want to share, and we have systems in place to make sure that nothing inappropriate happens or that we do not get far off track. But there is this level of vulnerability and self-honesty that, because that is what we are doing personally and because that is what we are doing in the program, we bring to those workshops and discussions. And it is comforting to see that others struggle the same as we do. And it is encouraging as they pick themselves back up and try again. And then we really do offer each other ongoing encouragement. When we feel stuck in the content or stuck with ourselves, there are other women to empathize, but then also maybe pose a good question that will help us think about it differently. And that is sometimes one of the most helpful things we can do for each other. Audrey: And I have told this story, I think maybe even recently on the podcast, but it is probably worth repeating. When we had the Mothers of Principal event and I went to one of the Airbnbs that some women had rented who had come into town, and I overheard, I was just sitting there, I overheard some women next to me talking. And one of them was complaining about something and the other woman said something back about her complaining, and then she turned to her friend who had not been in the academy, but had come to the event, and said, yeah, it is bittersweet because we all know better than to act like victims. And so in this space we cannot act like victims and just complain about stuff all the time. We have to try to say our piece and then move on and be creators. Like we all know we are supposed to be creators instead. Lindsay: Yeah. It is a culture that is encouraging you to be your best. We empathize, we get it, we will say encouraging words, but then we will also hold you accountable. You cannot get away with faulty thinking anymore. But we will also coach and question and help you. We all have problems. None of our lives are perfect. We all have hard things that we are dealing with. Nobody gets away from that. But we can come together and ask questions, help to identify the principles, hold each other accountable, and just encourage each other to keep going, that it is worth it, and that we can do it. Audrey: Yes. It is such a valuable community. And exactly like you said, to watch women who have gone through this process, and it is not like Audrey is not magical. She does not have superpowers. I am no different than you, really legitimately. We just have been through this process of changing the way that we think about God and ourselves and the world. We see the world through this lens of natural law, which brings us ongoing hope and optimism that we can find answers, that truth will make us free. And then we dig into material that helps us to think differently on an ongoing basis. And to your point, what you were saying a minute ago, Lindsay, we have a schedule built out of thirty minutes a day for a reason, because that is what all of us can probably find. But it is also super important that you have that ongoing drip, and then you just ponder. And you just see it. And you just, it opens your eyes and then you look for it. And half of the battle, if not more, is just seeing it. Then you have some tools and some guidance to help you walk through it. And having those women in front of us all the time, that is why I bring you and other women on the podcast. Amy was here and Katie was here. It works. It just works to learn to think this way. If I can do it, you can do it too. Lindsay: That is exactly what I am saying. We can do it. You can do it too. It is work. We are not going to sugarcoat that. Anything worthwhile in life is work. That is what it is. And so we are here for the long haul. We take a long time, we do a slow drip, and we get to know each other and we build actual friendships. And many of these women know each other in real life, they hang out in real life. I have had many women talk about, I found my people when I came here, or these are some of my closest friends now. Which I think for you and I both is also true. Audrey: Yep. Absolutely.   Closing Words and Call to Action Audrey: Alright, any last words of wisdom to anybody who is listening to this and wondering what their next step should be? Lindsay: If you are feeling the call to come and be a part of this community, to go through the academy, to gain a better understanding of truth and how you can know it and use it in your life, then listen to it. I think part of the nature of truth is that it compels action. We cannot, once we know the truth, we cannot not act. And so if this is something that is resonating with you, it is something to take some time and to listen to and to pursue. Audrey: That is a great way to put it. Thank you so much, Lindsay. You are, thank you. We are grateful for you every day. For those who decide to join us in the academy, you will get to know Lindsay, so that is a bonus. Come join us. Audrey: And for those of you that want to come to the encore training, it is going to happen soon. The link is in the description. We would love to have you there. If some of these things are resonating with you and you are feeling like you want to know more and learn more and get involved, we would love to have you at the event in the fall. And if you sign up soon, that is better because Lindsay is mentoring that community. Come join us. We are sending out some awesome emails. There is a recorded workshop you can watch. You are going to learn all about the six types of victim, and you are going to be part of a community immediately that is nurturing you and helping you to prepare for this Mothers of Creation event in the fall. We would love for you to come. We would love for you to bring your friends, your sister, your mother, your aunt, your cousin. Share in this experience together. Build community with them through this principled lens and learn how to step out of victim and be a creator. So thank you so much for joining us today. We are so glad to be here and serve you. Have a wonderful day. We will see you next time.  

Resource Links from Episode:  Mothers of Creation - Provo, Utah - September 26th  New Commonwealth Schools - Connect with Brenda   I want to tell you about a wonderful woman named Brenda. Brenda is 55 years old, a mother of six, grandmother of seven, and one of the wisest, most joyful women I know. She has been homeschooling since her oldest was five years old. She has started schools, built communities, coached founders, and dragged her kids across the country on the kinds of adventures that sound impossible until someone actually does them. But when she first started homeschooling, there was one thing that absolutely terrified her. Poetry. I am not joking.  She looked at the whole beautiful, overwhelming calling in front of her and thought, okay, I can do this. And then she got to poetry and decided, nope.  We are not doing poetry.  If the Lord wants my kids to love poetry, He is going to have to find another way. And then He did. A woman showed up in her little homeschool co-op who loved literature. She took Brenda's two little girls, who were maybe eight and six at the time, and she turned them into poets. Glitter. Crowns. Laminated placemats. The whole thing. Her passion was contagious, and those little girls caught it. Brenda told me that moment changed everything for her because it showed her something she had forgotten: she didn't have to do it all by herself. She just needed her people. I think about that a lot when I talk to women who feel the pull to do more, be more, give more, and then wonder if they even have what it takes. Maybe that's you right now. Maybe you feel called to something, your home, your kids, your community, your church, and you are showing up every single day, but there's this low hum underneath everything that sounds a lot like, Is this enough? Am I enough? Where do I even start? I recorded a podcast episode with Brenda this week, and I think you need to hear it.   AI Generated Transcript Introduction Audrey: Welcome back to the podcast. I'm Audrey Rindlisbacher, author of The Mission- Driven Life and founder of Mission-Driven Mom, and today I have a dear friend, an incredible woman, Brenda Hawes. I'm super excited for you to meet her. I'm going to tell you a little bit about her professionally. She is an MDM student. She has done some of the academy and had a great experience. She'll talk about that in just a minute. But in addition to that, she also builds communities. She is a professional community builder, if that is a thing that you could have as a title. She started her own homeschool group back in the nineties, back in the other century, because we're so old. And then she just grew into that. She started helping Commonwealth schools. They grew, and it grew into her own company, New Commonwealth Schools. She helps communities all across the country to grow and thrive. Super passionate about education, the ideals, and the principles that help us to grow and develop individually and in our greater community, in our families, first and foremost in educational spaces and beyond. And she is the mother of six and the grandmother of seven. So that's pretty awesome.  So meet Brenda. She's incredible. We've been friends for a long time. I adore her. But we're going to talk more about community again this week and why it matters so much. So let's start with this, Brenda. I already know that you knew about MDM because you knew me. Brenda: Yes. Audrey: And we were doing masterminding together. It was super cool. I was working on this passion project, and you got excited and got involved. So tell us a little bit about it. Maybe we will work from the MDM perspective first and go into the greater question of what community means at large and the communities you work with. What was happening in your home, in your life, in your community before you adopted the MDM program into that? And what kind of a difference or a shift did you see through that process?   The Search for Rich Community Brenda: I'm going to back up just a little bit. Okay. First of all, thank you for having me. This is so fun when we get to connect again. So I've moved around a fair amount and have been homeschooling ever since my baby was five, so from the very beginning. And some of the places that I've been have had really rich homeschool communities. And by that, when I talk about rich, I'm talking about being able to sit down and have a really amazing conversation with the other moms at the park, or the other moms in the co-op, or somebody that I meet who happens to homeschool. Can we have a really in- depth, meaningful conversation? And I've been in places where that was true, and I've been in places where that was not true. In fact, one place we lived, I told my husband, that's it. I've done my year here, and I can't do this anymore, because all these moms wanted to talk about was stuff that I felt like had no real impact on our children or on our lives or on the community. It was no deeper than, “What's your latest math curriculum?” And I was so sad. I missed that level of feeling like I was growing every time a conversation was happening. Audrey: Yes. Brenda: And so we moved back to someplace where we'd been before, and then we ended up here in St. George, actually, where I am now. And it was a great community, great women, smart, wise, wonderful mothers, and people who really cared. And it was awesome. But there was a huge difference between before MDM and after MDM. So yes, you and I were connected. I knew about MDM, and I was excited to get on that path and start that journey. And so I wanted to grab all these women that I loved, who were in my group, that I was so connected to. I loved their kids, I loved them. We all really knew each other's values and where we were coming from, and I thought, “Let's all do this journey together. “ Audrey: “Let's do it.”   MDM and the Growth of Deep Conversation Brenda: And we did. That was an incredible year for us. And I think one of the reasons why was because it was great content. The content itself really encouraged these great, deep conversations. It wasn't fluff, and it wasn't just superficial. It wasn't just rehashing the events of a book and seeing if we knew the timeline or could name the characters from a fiction book. That was not what it was. It was actually discussing character and values, and how a character's choices would apply to us, and how we saw our values mirrored in them or not mirrored in them. That led to deeper conversations, which led to this beautiful vulnerability that had to happen in the class. And that came over time. It's not like you just jump in with a group of people and automatically have that. But it did grow, and it grew steadily, and we were able to celebrate the things that were different in each of us and also celebrate the things that were similar. We really learned to hold space for other people and be excited about their things, even if they weren't our own, because we knew they would turn around and do the same.  I think that one of the things I look back on, and I joke with my students now that I'm an old lady, right? I'm 55, and I'm older than most of their mothers. But I look at my forties as this incredible time of growth for me. And MDM was a huge part of that. I felt like a grown-up when I was going through MDM. I felt like these are questions and books and content and things that matter and that are actually going to make me a wiser person. So it was exciting to dig into it, and I saw the growth in myself, and it has made a huge difference in me. It also made a huge difference in our community because I wanted the moms who were the moms of my children's friends to have the same foundation I had, to have that same stable platform and the confidence in who they were. Because that gets passed on to their kids, and then to the family cultures, and then to the community. Audrey: Yeah. It was beautiful. It was awesome.  So one of the things that I've been talking about on the podcast lately is the root word "commune." The root word for communion, communication, and community. The root word "commune" actually means to unite your identity. And I've been talking about how all of these components connect, and I love that you said you could see your differences, but then you could celebrate them, and then you could see what was the same and celebrate that too. So my question then would be, did you feel that as your community focused on truth as an adventurous quest, and as they had the courage to become more vulnerable and open up in new ways, that there was more of that unity, that feeling of being more united in your identities, seeing each other more clearly, and wanting more of the same things and working together more harmoniously?   Vulnerability and the Safety of Shared Truth Brenda: A hundred percent. Because not only did we start to see those differences and those similarities, but because we were opening up and being vulnerable, we found that it was a safe space. And I don't think you really find safety without being vulnerable first. You have to test the water, dip your toe in, or jump in all the way, whichever way you're going to do it. You have to be adventurous in order to find out if a space is safe. And what we found was the space was safe.  And then what we were able to do, because we trusted each other, is as a community we were able to work together outside of the MDM classroom. As a group of women who were running this community, we were able to open up and say, "This is how I feel.” It's different than how you feel, but it's how I feel. Because now we felt safe in saying those things, sharing those different opinions, and we knew that what we shared would be held as sacred. Nobody was feeling as threatened. A lot of times when somebody comes at you with a different opinion, you might feel threatened by it. But we learned that wasn't threatening. It was something to be celebrated, and it was helpful to hear all the different opinions in order to make a wise decision. You've got to hear all of it. Audrey: So why has community become your passion? Why does community matter so much to you?   Why Community Became a Passion Brenda: I don't know why, but I feel a little teary right now. I think it started out because number one, I'm a very social person. I just am. I love other people. I always have since I was a child. I loved other people. They were interesting to me. I loved the different perspectives they brought to my life. And there's a synergy there that I started to recognize, and I really felt how much I needed that synergy when I started homeschooling.  There's a story that I tell all the time about when I first started homeschooling. I thought, okay, I think I can do this. I was a young mom, probably about 25, and my oldest wasn't even five yet. I thought, “Okay, we'll read lots of stories. How can we make this fun and engaging?” But there was one thing that I knew I couldn't do, and that was poetry. I don't know why, but poetry was the one thing at that point that scared me. And I just decided, you know what, we're just not going to do poetry in my homeschool. We're going to make sure my kids at least don't inherit a hatred of learning because of poetry. Maybe if the Lord wants them to get that somehow, he'll provide a way. But fast forward a couple of years, and there was a woman who was placed in my life, and I'm going to call her out by name because I love her dearly and she deserves credit for this every single time. Her name was Lisa Morehead. And Lisa was a part of our first little homeschool group that we did, and she loved literature of all kinds. And she took my two little girls, who were probably eight and six at the time, and she turned them into poets. She introduced different styles of poetry to them. She made it fun. They turned it into artwork. I'm talking glitter and crowns and the whole thing, laminated placemats. It wasn't a big deal, but her passion was contagious. And that just solidified for me that what I was doing as a homeschool mom meant I didn't have to do it all by myself. I could bring other people into my children's lives. And they could have everything that they needed through the community. The community brought that. Audrey: Yes. And every year it was different. You would have one family move out, and another couple of families move in, and those moms would bring different skill sets and different ideas and backgrounds, and it just made your children's experience and your own experience all the better. Brenda: Yeah. Like we build together. That's just how we are, I think.   Community and the Empowerment of Mothers Audrey: How do you feel like the communities that you've helped to build or participated in contributed to your ability to build the family culture that you wanted to have? Brenda: I think as I built my own communities and started helping others build theirs, one of the things I saw was the growth of women and the strength of women and what they could do, and that was beautiful to me. I would start coaching a new chairperson or a founder of a school, and there were so many fears and uncertainties. But I was always excited to share this journey with these amazing women who want to give and share with their children and with the other people in their area. They are willing to go through so much to pull people together because they have faith that together they can do more, and have more power, and do more good in the world. That has constantly been a source of strength for me and has also definitely bled into my home because my philosophy has rubbed off on my kids. We joke about it as a family. My kids will say, “Oh, that's my mom. She'll ask for anything.” Because I am willing to ask, because I know that together we can do more. I always think, “Oh, this could be so much better with this or that,” and anybody can say no to me. Sometimes that comes as a surprise to people, but I tell them, “No, I expect no fifty percent of the time.” It's just a yes or it's a no and it's okay. I can just ask. And so part of our family culture is that you can ask. My kids have learned that. My husband knows that about me. I'm not going to say he's agood asker yet. We've only been married for thirty-six years, so surely there's more time and it'll rub off on him. Audrey: Sure. Brenda: He sometimes likes to joke about it. But I do think it has empowered my kids to go out in the world and know there are no limits. That's how I feel. You get together a group, a community, and of course, in my case, it's usually a group of moms, and there's nothing we can't do. We can take our kids to Kenya and have them have this amazing experience. We can take them to Washington D.C. We can have this amazing educational experience where kids are willing to grit their teeth and hold themselves up by their fingernails trying to get all the homework done and everything else. And what are they doing it for? Not for grades. Not for a GPA. But they're willing to do it because they know it's going to be great. And those are things we've done together. We've created that culture, we've created those environments and helped inspire our children and inspire ourselves to heights that I believe would not have happened if it was just us alone.   Finding Your People Audrey: Wow. That's incredible. And I feel like there are plenty of people out there who don't homeschool. Maybe you coach basketball for teenagers, and you get to know people at the games and have experiences, or you belong to a church, and you say hi to your neighbors, and you know who they are. But I just know for myself, when I was a young mom, and I was exhausted, and I knew I needed something, but couldn't have articulated what, I needed to be alive and awake to my own potential. I needed to know how to pursue answers to my problems, and I needed to be surrounded by people who would walk with me on that journey. I had a wonderful family and good friends, and had always gone to church, and that was wonderful. But there really was not anything like what you're communicating until I found liberal arts education and then went on to build my own programs and systems and to surround myself with like-minded women in that same way. And it's addicting. You come to feel like you just can't live without it. You need your people because you know what life felt like when you didn't have them, and you know the mental and emotional and sometimes even spiritual loneliness.  Because the kinds of things you're talking about are super regenerative. The challenge of raising the funds to get the kids to Kenya, everything about it, there are a million moving parts, and it's a challenge for everybody. And then there's nothing like that feeling of doing it together, of pulling it off together. And in the same way, when you were doing MDM in your community, when you share the same language, when you're on the same pursuit, when you have the same goal, and when there's this added element of working on changing yourself, of needing to be more honest with yourself, facing who you are, being willing to change, being willing to let people push back on you and call you out on things, that's hard, but so empowering. Because then you see the changes in yourself, and you would never go back. You recognize there's a narrow way that you have to be willing to walk through if you want those changes in yourself and in your family. Anyway. Brenda: So well said. And I'm going to add to that. I feel so blessed because I am surrounded by such amazing women. They're communities in different places. I have my community in Colorado from when I started my first Commonwealth school, where we raised our kids together and went through liberal arts education together. We still get together once a year. We find a time and a place. And then I have that also here in St. George. And those are the women, because MDM is a huge part of this; those are the women that I can go to and say, " Hey, is this thing that I do annoying?” And your surface- level friends will say, "Oh no, it's fine.” But your real friends who honor truth and understand that you're really asking for a real answer will be like, "Yes, actually. Let's have a talk about it.” Audrey: “Finally, we've been waiting for you to bring this up.” Brenda: But those are the kinds of people I want to surround myself with. People who are going to tell me the truth when I'm asking for the truth. Now, maybe I don't want the truth every single day or every minute. I need it in doses. The truth is hard. But they are amazing adult women who can speak truth. And that is one of the huge things that MDM brought to our community. Audrey: Wow. I'm so glad. It's been a joy to watch the caliber of women that it attracts. That's been one of the greatest, most beautiful surprises, that women will come. We had a woman just sign up the other day, and it was pretty heartbreaking to read her self-description of how broken she feels. But I know what kind of woman she is, because she is ready and willing to make the sacrifices to face it. And she will see change in herself, and she will grow, and she will begin to conquer some of the things that have felt unconquerable. And I am so joyful that I get to be on that walk with her. To watch that happen and to be part of that transformational journey for her is such a joy.   A Shared Mission and Vision for Community Audrey: So, is there anything else you would like to share about why finding your people matters so much or how community blesses our lives? Brenda: I'm going to share that one of the things I teach my founders of my schools is that they need to come up with a mission for their school, a mission and a vision statement, and that's the first thing I ask them to do. And I tell them, “Look, it's going to get refined later. It's fine. Don't stress about it. Let's just get it started.” Because picking out their mission and vision also means choosing an educational philosophy for their group. When you have a united goal, when you have hearts that are knit and working towards the same thing, now I'm not talking about sameness across the board, that's not at all what we're trying to get at. But this one big goal that they share, the struggle is still real. It doesn't change the fact that homeschooling your kids is hard, and running a community is tough. Running a Commonwealth school is hard. But that goal keeps you going and keeps you moving forward. And one of the hardest things is when people join that group, and they are not on board with the goal. And sometimes people need a little bit of time to really understand the goal and kind of test the waters and see if they're on board or not. But once they decide that they're not, my wish for them is always to go find another group that is aligned so that they don't feel like they're constantly trying to hammer themselves into the wrong-sized hole. The square peg, round hole kind of thing. That friction happens, and it's because the goals are not united. But when a liberal arts education is the unifying goal for your family and for your children, in a Commonwealth setting, that is so powerful. And it doesn't have to be about education. It can be a lot of other things. But have a unifying goal for your community, and that's what will pull you together. Audrey: Yes, so beautifully said. Having vision, clarity, intention, focus, and a shared vision is so vital. Any last words for our listeners? Any advice for them?   Final Thoughts Brenda: Figure out what it is you want and who you want to be. And go for that. Make that happen. Be you. Be the best you can be. And I'm just going to say it, Audrey, because it's happened to me: MDM will help get you there. MDM will help you figure out what it is that you want. As you peel back the layers of things that are not important in your life and you start to find that focus and that clarity, MDM will help you do that. I'm not just saying it. I recommend it all the time. When I go and speak to my schools and talk to the moms there, I say, look, if you want to become really unified, do this. Get started with MDM One and then work your way through the program. We have had some of your schools do it. Audrey: Yes. And they always come back and say, "You were right. We made this huge change in our school.” Brenda: It changes lives. It's a big deal. Audrey: Thank you, Brenda. You're such a beautiful person. I'm so grateful to have you for a friend. If you want to know more about what Brenda does and you're involved in schools or homeschooling, we'll put the link to her organization below, and you can reach out to her if you'd like to know more about what we're doing.

Resources Mentioned in Episode Support Karen’s Mission The Mission Driven Mom Academy   I want to tell you about my friend Karen. Several years ago, she was homeschooling eight kids, running a co-op, and carrying this quiet thought she could not seem to shake. A sense that God was nudging her toward something. That there was more. But every time it surfaced, she did what most of us do. She talked herself out of it. I don't have time. I have eight kids. Surely there's someone better suited for this than me. Maybe you have said some version of that to yourself. One afternoon, she was leaving her church's temple, and the thought came back. And something came with it this time. The impression that if Christ was willing to pay the price He paid for her, He must know more about what she is capable of than she does. That one thought started something. In this week’s podcast episode, you’ll hear Karen’s incredible story that lead her and her family to open a center for orphaned teens in Mexico and all of the twists and turns along the way. Here is a little of what you will hear in this episode: The moment Karen realized her self-doubt might be something closer to pride, because God knows her better than she knows herself How her mother's childhood shaped the way Karen sees every single one of those kids What it actually looks like when you say yes to something that seems impossible, and why the obstacles are part of the plan The miracles, small and specific, that kept showing up when things felt impossible Getting her family and husband onboard with her mission The teenagers who have been through more than most of us can imagine, and the light that lives within them The eighteen-year-old boy who found her on Facebook years later and said, what do I need to do to come to your school? And what it looks like right now, if you feel moved to be part of what she is building I think a lot of you are going to be moved when you hear this one. Be sure to subscribe to The Mission Driven Mom Podcast if you haven’t already!  _________________________________________________________________________________ AI Generated Transcript Introduction Audrey: Welcome back to the podcast. I am Audrey R, and today we get to spend a few minutes with Karen Bates. Before we get into our discussion, please go ahead and like, subscribe, and leave a review, share it with a friend. That helps us grow and get the message out about truth making us free. I know Karen Bates because she was a student in the Mission Driven Mom Academy a few years ago, but then our friendship grew and blossomed. I became involved in the projects that she is involved with, and I went to Mexico with her, and that was amazing, and so we just became better and better friends. The work that she is doing now is vitally important. They are just getting started. And I would love for all of you to know her, to understand better how she got where she is and the work she is going to do moving forward. And then if any of you feel inspired to support her in any way, she will let you know what some of those ways are. Then you can get involved in her mission work. She is an amazing woman. Her story is super inspiring, so I am super excited for her to share it. So, Karen, go about telling your story the way that you would like best to tell it, whether you want to go way back or you want to start with where you are now, and then tell us how you got there. Karen: Well, thanks for having me, Audrey. This is so fun to be here. I was getting kind of nervous before the podcast, and then just speaking with a friend and a bunch of other friends that I have not met yet, and it is going to be okay. Audrey: Totally. We are all just struggling through life, trying to figure things out together. A Defining Moment: The Seed of a Book Karen: I think I will start with a story because it had such an impact. It is kind of before a lot of this started happening, but I had been writing a blog about just educational principles and things I was learning through homeschooling and reading a lot of books. I started having this thought come to my mind about writing it down in an orderly fashion, like in a book. It would come to me every once in a while, and then I would just kind of dismiss it and think, I do not have time. I am trying to lead this homeschool group, and I have kids. I am homeschooling, and it is just a busy time of life. Audrey: So this was how long ago?  Karen: About six years ago. Audrey: And you had how many kids?  Karen: Eight. Audrey: Nice. And you were homeschooling all of them? Karen: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Audrey: And leading a homeschool community as well?  Karen: Mm-hmm. Audrey: Okay. Awesome. Karen: And so I went to a religious building of our church. We call it a temple. As I was coming out, this thought popped into my head again, and I was like, "Oh, maybe I should take this seriously because it is happening at a time when I am feeling close to God." But I was still thinking about the time. So I got in the car, and I turned on the music, and the song called "Gethsemane" came on. It is just a cello song by Ralph Gardner. It is kind of describing the suffering of Christ. I remember the very distinct thought: if Christ was willing to pay this price for you, he must know more about what you are capable of doing and your potential than you do. That kind of led the way to be able to do a lot of these other things. Like, okay, I must be able to do more because of that suffering than I think I actually can. And so I started getting up early and working on that, and it eventually came to be. That was one of the defining things that started me on this journey.   From Book to Class to Service Trip Because of that book, I made a class and started teaching it, and I charged for the class. So I started making a little bit of money, and I thought, “What do I want to do with this?” And what I wanted to do more than anything was go on a service trip with my family. A dream I had always had. So that is what we decided to do. That Christmas, for our Christmas present, we were going to go do the service trip in Tijuana and visit an orphanage. While we were there, I was just so impacted by the kids. They were so ready to serve in any way. I remember asking where I could fill my water bottle, and three young men immediately said, "Oh, let me get that for you.” They were just so anxious to serve and needed love so badly. And I think I was specifically impacted in a deeper way because my mom had been an orphan in Mexico, and so I saw her in each of them. This need to be loved, this desire to belong to a family, this desire to just fit in, and to have someone care about what you are thinking, what you are feeling. I saw that in all of them. As we were leaving and said goodbye to the kids, I was just so sad. We got in the car and I just cried. I remember another pivotal moment as I prayed. I said, “Father, I am willing to do anything. Just whatever it is that I can do for these kids, help me know what it is and help me just do it.” I want to know what I can do because I cannot just leave and go back to regular life at this point. I was too deeply into this by now.   Letters and a Growing Vision So we are driving home, and I had a couple of thoughts. One of them was to just let them know. Like, my mom always said, it makes such a difference to know one person cares. There was a leader in her church that started showing interest in her well-being, and that meant so much to her. She thought, “Okay, maybe I am worth being cared about.”  So I thought, “Okay, I could at least write them each a letter.” On the way home, I started writing each child a letter, just letting them know that I cared about them and sharing some of the gifts I saw in them. The other thought was, I need to get more people out here. These kids need so much love, and I can only come so often, but if we can get more people coming out, then they can have a lot more of that love that they need. So I thought, “Okay, with this class I am teaching, and with my book, I can turn that into a humanitarian school. We could start doing entrepreneurship projects and different fundraising things and start getting more families out to visit this orphanage. So that is what we started doing. We created this school called Find Your Path Academy and started getting families out. We would do projects and plays and collect money. Families would go out, and we started visiting the kids more often. So we grew in these relationships with them because we just had more and more people coming, and were able to go more often because of that.   Knowing the Kids' Stories The more we got to know them, we got to know a lot more of their backstories and some of the issues, especially the teenagers face in this environment. It is big dorms, a lot of rules, and a lot of just needing to make sure that you are staying on top of the rules and doing what you are told, because there are not enough caretakers. And a lot of times, as a teenager, as you know, with teenagers, they need to be heard; they need to be listened to. So they struggled a lot with that. And I would come back, and a couple more kids had run away every time. It was rough to not know where they were. Then a lot of them would start to contact me. They found me on Facebook or something, and they would say, “Hey, I am at this other place now.” One particular kid contacted me, and he said, "I am on the streets. I am not sure what to do. I just know I cannot go back because they will put me in a rehab center, and those places are rough, but I am hungry. I do not know where to go.” And here I am in Utah. I wish I could be there to do something to help him in some way. This kid was only 13, but he was really mature for his age. Every time we would have a devotional with the kids, we started going in the summers for like a month. We did that for a couple of summers, and we would have these summer programs and do devotions with them. And this young man was really impacted by this. He would always raise his hand and answer questions. He asked if he could memorize a child's prayer. He really would gravitate toward wanting to be good, but he did not feel like he could in that environment because he was often angry at the way he was treated. He needed help, and I was not sure how to help him. I just tried to give him advice. I said, "Well, you know, the orphanage is better than living on the streets, and what is going to happen if you stay on the streets?” He said, "I am going to turn myself in. There are a lot of cops around where I am at. I am just going to go turn myself in. Hopefully, I can see you again. I will most likely be at this rehab center.” And then that was the last I heard of him. I did hear that he did end up at one of those centers. But it was more and more kids like this that would contact me. I would find out what they were doing, and I just thought if we could be in Mexico, we could do something for them. What they needed most, I felt, was to be heard, to have opportunities to pursue the interests they had and to make an impact for good. They really, all the ones I met, wanted to make the world better. They wanted to break these cycles. They did not want to be the same kind of people that their parents were. Often, they were in these orphanages because their parents were struggling with addiction and could not take care of them. They wanted something better and different, but often when they would go back out into the world, that was all they knew. So they would go back to these patterns. And I thought in my heart, if we could just live in Mexico.   The Email That Changed Everything Whenever I would bring it up to my family, they would say, “Well, that is impossible.” You know, my husband's job is in the United States, and he likes it, and he cannot work remotely. He is a therapist. So that is a hands-on thing, and we have a life here. So it just seemed like an impossible thing, but it would come into my mind every once in a while. We could do so much more. We could provide something there. Obviously, we cannot bring them to us, as much as I would like that. I did look into adoption a few times, and that is really difficult for Mexico. And it was not going to make the impact for all of the kids that I wanted to make. And so I think that drive home, that sincere prayer, just started something. I cannot even explain exactly what it was. Because it was so sincere, something happened that just made the doors start rolling in a direction where this would be possible. As I was looking into options of what to do, I thought maybe we could go sometime in the summer. That is what we started doing: creating different programs, figuring out ways to help these kids. And every once in a while, I would say, "But if we lived in Mexico,” and my family would say, “Okay, you are going again with that.” So I kind of just stopped at that. And then one day out of nowhere, this was a huge surprise to me. My husband sent me an email, and the subject line said, "It is time to go.” So I started reading it, and he said, “I have been praying about this, and if this is something that means this much to you and that you really want to try, then we should just go and try it as a family. Let us all just go and see what we can do.” That was a huge miracle because it was so unexpected. So he decided to take that leap, and we just sold our home. We sold our stuff, and we went to a couple of internships first. We did an internship in one orphanage in Tijuana, another one in that same orphanage that we often visited. And then we moved to Quintana Roo, which is where we bought land.   Building in Mexico: Miracles and Obstacles We had bought the land earlier, after deciding to do this and planning to move out there. The house was not finished. There were a lot of things that did not go as planned. It is interesting to see these miracles and to see what happens, but there is also so much opposition and so many things that you are not expecting. We thought we had such a logical plan. We were going to sell our home. With that money, we had enough to start a ropes course business. Benjamin Allen from Class Ropes Course said he could come and build the ropes course, just donating his time. And he could get the equipment at a lower cost because he builds ropes courses. We said, okay, we can have a ropes course business. They quoted us a price on the house, and then we would still have three months of savings where we could start the ropes course business and have an income for our family as we started to grow this thing. And then we got to Mexico, and the house was not done. So we found this abandoned restaurant that the owners let us rent. We decided to clean it out and live there while we waited for the house to be finished. Then everything started costing more. By the time we had the house, all these extra expenses had been added on top of it. We had no electricity. We just had the house. And in order to get electricity, because we were so far from the city, we had to buy solar panels, and we were out of money at this point. So we had to use the credit card. We could not just live without electricity. At this point, my husband started to really worry. He said, "Well, I do not have a job. I do not have savings, and our kids need to eat, and I have credit card debt I need to pay back. I need to go to the United States and work.” And so that is what he decided to do. So, out of this last year, he was gone from home about nine months out of the year while we were in Mexico to get this started. And there were just a lot of little things that kept blocking the process.   The Ropes Course Miracle Our road got super muddy, so you could not access the property, of course. But there were so many miracles. That was incredible to see because I think for my husband, especially, he needed to see that God's hand was in this in a very real way. There was a time when Benjamin Allen was coming with the ropes course equipment. He got stuck at the border, and he said, “I actually cannot take any wood across the border. It is against the law unless you have a permit, and it takes about a year to get.” He had all of these poles that he was going to use to build our ropes course. They tried three different times to cross the border, and each time they turned them back. So he said,” I am just going to have to leave the poles and take the rest of the equipment and start looking for trees that we can build the ropes course on.” So they were driving across Mexico, all the way from Utah, him and my dad in different trucks with all of this ropes course equipment. Meanwhile, we were like, okay, we are going to have to find some trees. The trees on our property were pretty small. We had not seen anything big enough to be safe for a ropes course. So we said, “We are going to have to go look.” So we went on several different hikes. We got a guy with a machete to guide us through the jungle to go find trees. A couple of Ben's workers showed up before Ben and said, "Well, let us go see what we can find. Maybe we can find a place for a low course at least.” We had this guide with us, and a storm started to come up. He said, " Oh, we better stop. When a storm gets like this, those trees are going to start swaying. You are going to get branches on you. It is dangerous. We should go.” And I just had this feeling. I remembered seeing a bigger tree on the other side of where we had been. I said, "Can we just go look on this other side? I just want to see it.” He said, " Well, you guys can go, but I am heading home because this is dangerous.” And we were like, okay. But we felt like we were on a time crunch. We could not just take days to find these trees. We had to find something before Ben got there. So we went around where I remembered seeing that tree. I took a wrong turn. I went before it, and there was another little path, and I thought, I think it is around here. We got into this clearing, and we saw one big tree. It is called a chukum tree, which is the hardest wood you can find, and it is the best kind of wood for a ropes course because it is so hard and so strong. And we kept walking, and we got to this little clearing, and there was this grove of trees just sitting there in the middle of this place. It was amazing. They were perfectly spaced out. Alex, the guy that was with us, said, “I have never seen anything like this.” These trees are always cut down because their wood is valuable. People come through here all the time chopping down trees. So the fact that they are still here is miraculous. And the fact that they are in a grove like this is extraordinary. They are usually spread far apart. Here they were perfectly spaced for a ropes course. When Ben got there, he kind of looked at it and just planned out the whole course in his mind with the trees where they were and built it, and it turned out so beautiful. This little jungle ropes course. It is so fun. Audrey: Wow. You just left the trees where they were and built it right there. That is incredible. Karen: Yes. And when we saw the trees, we thought, Wait, are these even on our property? We measured, and it looked like half of them were and half of them were not. So Alex said, "I will go to the land records office and see if maybe we can buy that portion of the land.” He goes, and the man who sold us the land happened to be there that very day. And the man said, " Oh, I sold that land. Oh, those trees? Those are on your property. I made the line just past those trees. And so those are all yours.” So that was amazing. Just finding him that day, and the time it would have taken to buy the land otherwise. That was really cool.   Community Support and More Miracles A friend came to help us. She knows a lot about permaculture. Part of what we want to do with this land is create a kind of immersive experience for the youth, so they are growing their own gardens and having entrepreneurial projects, as well as learning English and having a path toward a career. We have one young man now who started pathways. He had to pass an English proficiency test, and then he could begin working toward a career. He wants to be a counselor. So Janelle came to help us plan out some permaculture things, and she happened to schedule her flight at the same time a homeschooling group decided to come. She got there a couple of days before them and was planning things out. Then this homeschool group arrives, all twenty of them. And they said, "Oh, we can do that.” So they started planting the trees and doing all these things that she had planned that would have taken us months to do by ourselves. Just people coming at the right times in the right order to get the projects done. Another example was this family that showed up out of nowhere. They were visiting Cancun, and they heard about us. There was a KSL news article that came out, and they said, "Oh, we want to come help for a day.” And it happened to be the day that we needed a lot of men to lift these bio-digesters into our property. So they got there and helped us lift them. Just God's hands so often in these little ways to get us to where we needed to be. So along with the things that seemed to be blocking us, there was so much of, you are on the right path, keep going. And I felt like, I am in this with you. That has been really cool to see.   The Mission-Driven Mom Academy's Influence Another pivotal moment: when I was getting ready to start the school back in Utah, again, it was these thoughts that come to your mind. I am sure everyone is familiar with them. Who are you to think you could do this? You are not trained. You do not have this. Audrey: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Karen: And so that was going through my mind, and I was putting away laundry in the closet and listening to your book, “Mission Driven Life,” and you were saying something about courage. I cannot remember exactly what it was at the time, but this thought hit me: if she could do that, have that much courage, I can certainly start a school. That is nothing compared to what Audrey is doing. And so there are just these little nudges, I think that Heavenly Father sends you at the right times and in the right way when you need to hear them, that propel you to the next little step. Six years ago, deciding to move to Mexico and start a school would have been way out of my thought process. But little by little, it was, this seems like the next step. That is how we got to where we are.   Where They Are Now: The Road to Phase Two So what we have been doing this last year is just trying to build that foundation. We have our house ready. And we realize that it is not sustainable to have my husband gone so often. It was not good for our family. We had to choose between the cause and being together as a family. We really should choose our family. That is a priority in life. As good as this cause is, we cannot just keep moving forward being separated all the time. I had two kids getting married in August in Utah. So we flew out of Mexico to Utah for their weddings. And afterwards we drove to Texas. That is where we are now, just deciding, okay, what is the next step? How are we going to proceed with this in a way that aligns with what God would have us do but is also feasible? Some of the thoughts that came to my head were that I have got to learn how to run a nonprofit organization. We have just been scraping by, asking for donations, and we need something more functional. I have been reading a lot of books about running nonprofits and getting an idea of how to structure it properly, having a board, and all the things needed to run it well. Also, we need to figure out how to get enough monthly donors so that it is sustainable. Even just to have enough to have the buildings continue to be maintained during this time, and have the kids be able to be educated. I mean, we were doing a little school with the kids, and it was good, but it was definitely not sufficient. If we were going to all be out there sacrificing this much, we needed to have something that was going to be really transformative for the youth that stay there. And then we need to talk to the state agency that has the orphaned kids to provide a home for them so that they could come and stay there in a boarding school environment. Get an education and have a real home. So we did find a couple who are amazing and willing to be house parents for our first home. That was a huge miracle in itself, because there are just not a lot of people who would want to take on a bunch of youth they have never met, who have been through the orphanage system, and parent them. That is not normal. But this couple we met when we moved to Mexico. She started a little school because she was homeschooling her two kids, and she saw this need in the community. In Mexico, if you are hyperactive or have ADD or cannot learn to read fast enough, they are just like, well, you are not keeping up, and they push you out of school. She saw these kids in the streets, and she would ask, "Why are you not in school?” Oh, they kicked me out. I could not learn to read or whatever. She said, " Well, I am doing a homeschool with my two kids. Do you want to come do it with us?” So she talked to their parents, and she started this little school with other people's kids. When we moved there, I reached out to her right away. How can we help? So we had this school that she started, and it was wonderful. I asked them, when we get a youth home built, we are going to need house parents who can provide a lot of structure. These folks are very loving, but also very good at structure, and they could have a home where the youth feel safe and have devotionals and have this example of a family. I asked if they would be interested, and in my mind I was thinking, this is a huge ask. But she said, "Oh my goodness. Ever since I was little, I wanted to adopt kids and to do something, to have youth who do not have families feel like they have a family. This is exactly what I have always dreamed of, and I would love to do that.” Her husband said the same thing. “Are you serious? That is exactly what we have both always wanted.” So they are ready to go. The program is ready to go, and the land is ready to go. Now we are just in the process of finding enough monthly donors and donations to start this first home and get things rolling. I think the foundation has been laid with the people and the things, and it is time for phase two.   The Vision: What Phase Two Looks Like Audrey: That is awesome. So let me try to describe what I understand your next phase goal to be, and you tell me if I have got it right. You have this land in Mexico. How many acres? Karen: Twelve. Audrey: You have twelve acres. I know it is not too far from touristy spots as well, so there is potential to bring in visitors. You have this property, you now have a ropes course on it, and you have a functioning home on it. The goal is to build, as phase one, one building for orphaned teens in Mexico that this couple would be the house parents for. Do you already know that the state will let those kids come? What is the process for approval? Karen: We have talked to a couple of people, and it is just a matter of making sure that it is safe, so they would have to come in and check things and do inspections. That is what they care about. Audrey: Okay. So you would build this house, get it approved with Mexico, and perhaps even bring people in to do the ropes course and bring in income that way. The kids do not come with any money. The state does not provide it. No money follows them like it does with foster kids in the States. And so if these kids are going to come to you, then you are going to run them through this program. I looked through the first journal. You have been building out a series of journals, an every single day activity with a little bit of reading and answering questions that takes them down a path of connecting better with God, understanding themselves better, increasing their self-knowledge, making them think a little bit differently about the world and about how they could be in the world, and being inspired by the stories of others. Every week you have got a principle that you are focused on. They are introduced to this theme, and then the theme runs throughout the week and they interact with it in different ways. It is very readable. Very easy. Just a few pages a day of reading, so they could get through that and journal in less than half an hour. So logistically, what happens for the rest of their education? Do they go to a school near your property? Do you bring in tutors? Do they need to get some kind of diploma so that college could be a possibility? Karen: We would have tutors come in. Nan does the Spanish and the math and things like that. Basically, the kids each have their own little desk, and as they have questions, they come up. It is very much like homeschooling. We would have people there to help them through their regular curriculum. The one she chose is an Amish curriculum that keeps God in the subjects, and it is very sweet. Then we have been teaching choir and English. Especially in this area, because it is very close to a lot of tourist sites, learning English will open up a lot of doors for them. And then there are just a lot of sweet people in the community that we have met who have talents they want to share. There is a guy that wants to do guitar lessons and another lady that wants to do these dances from Israel. They have different talents they want to come and share with the youth. So we would want to bring in different people, and when volunteer groups come, we would want them to come and share some kind of talent. Also do some theater so the kids get exposed to great stories and the arts. Then we would start to learn about their interests and get them the resources they need to delve deeper into those interests, whether that be books, or an instrument, or entrepreneurship. They can have a piece of land that they can start growing and making something with. They can start selling those things, seeing what works and what does not. The curriculum or the program that I wrote is to help them learn how to make and keep inspired goals. They start to be led down this path, and then they start to know, Okay, I am going to try this. And then they are able to more easily start to see what their gifts and talents are and what they want to pursue.   Preparing Youth for College and Careers Audrey: You mentioned earlier that some of the kids are now doing online college courses. The pathway in there is to pass the GED or to have a transcript or things like that. I am just trying to resolve a few concerns, for those who might think seriously about supporting you financially or otherwise, about whether your program will properly prepare them. Will they really be ready to do college and move on? Karen: To your point about whether they will be able to get good jobs, what has happened is that because Joanna is a certified teacher, she can certify through elementary and junior high, which has been really helpful. But several of the kids we have met were not able to even get out of elementary school, and they are like seventeen or eighteen. So at that point, we have to say, okay, we cannot really go back and do all of that. There is a program where they can do a two-year packet, kind of like an adult version, to get their diploma. The other option is also to go through BYU Pathways. The young man who is in BYU Pathways now did not graduate from junior high. But he passed the English proficiency test and was able to get into BYU Pathways and start a degree in youth counseling. That is what he wants to do. So there are different ways to navigate having a legal diploma, through programs in the department that you can get that through, but you can also find other avenues depending on what each student needs.   Audrey's Reflection on the Orphanage Visit Audrey: I want to share a little bit for those listening, because one of the ways Karen and I really got to be better friends was the second year that she returned to the orphanage in Mexico. I had wanted to do a service trip with my family for a long time. It just felt like it was time. It was in the fall, and I wanted to do it at Christmas. It was our year for Christmas, so we were going to have all our kids. I was not sure how we were going to pull that off, and I just started reaching out to people I knew. Do you know of organizations that are trustworthy? Do they do this kind of thing? And Karen replied back, " We are going to Mexico, we have got eleven spots left.” There were ten of us. I said, " We will take them all.” And it just worked out beautifully for us to go and spend the week together there. One of the things to know about these kids is that, as Karen said, they are not always orphans in the very literal sense of that word. Sometimes they have one or both parents still living. Sometimes they are in contact with them. Sometimes their parents get them back. It is more of a foster system, but much looser and much less regulated. Of course, no money follows each of these kids, and they are often street kids. They are found on the street and taken in based on what the specialty of that particular orphanage happens to be. In the one that we have gone to in Tijuana, they do not take small children. What they do is try to keep family groups together. So the state knows if they have got a group of siblings, that specific orphanage is a good one to contact because they will be more likely to take them. They all have these specialties. Which is why it may seem kind of strange to those that are listening that Karen could just go down to Mexico, buy some land, build a house, and the state would let her have these kids. It seems so unregulated, but that is kind of the nature of how things work there. As long as they have done their inspections and background checks and feel that this is a safe environment, they will allow those kids to be placed with Karen. And she will get to capacity, whatever that is. And I am sure, Karen, that you would like to see that grow, have more kids than just the one house eventually, and have those kids go on and inspire other kids to move forward in their lives as well. In the orphanage that we have gone to, they have buildings in the back for the older kids. Once they have graduated out of the traditional K through twelve school system, there is a place where they can still have a place to live and some food to eat while they explore college classes. For example, one young man that we connected with wanted to become a barber. My son is a barber. They really connected. He was able to give him a little bit of training. We were able to help him figure out how to do that. And those little small opportunities come up quite a bit, especially if you can help these kids key into something that is going to help them go beyond a minimum wage situation and give them an actual skill, a marketable skill, and some tools. In the case of this young man, the ability to get clients and to keep a clientele. Then they really can build a different life for themselves, and they can learn from the poor circumstances of their upbringing, the hard things that fell upon their family, whatever that circumstance might have been. They can try to use what they have been given to build something else. It may seem strange to some of you that Karen would just go down there and kind of maverick this. But it really is the case that she legally, it is all very realistic to expect to happen. And it is also something that she knows pretty intimately, how things look and feel for these kids. She has been down there for years, in multiple orphanages, spending countless hours talking to these young men and women. I have spent just a bit of time. We have been down a few more times to this particular orphanage ourselves. Karen has really been immersed in it. You touched on your mom's experience in one of the journals. You tell her story in a little more detail, that she was actually on the streets. And so you have, in your immediate family, a very personal experience in what your mom went through. You know just how hopeless this circumstance can feel and just how much these children need. It is such a beautiful story coming full circle, from your mom through you and back into Mexico. You have been uniquely prepared to know what needs to be done and to have the ability to do what needs to be done. Karen is still very much at the beginning stages. She is pulling her board together, but she has proven to herself and to the people in the community down there that she is serious about this work and that she is trustworthy and that this can work. She has paid a price for several years now to know what can be done, what cannot be done, how to go about getting those things done, and what the kids actually really need. And clearly, she has a gift of connection with them, because they keep reaching out to her, and they trust her. If these kids from these orphanages are trusting her when they have had just a little bit of connection and time with her, you can just imagine what will happen when they are actually on-site and get to have a real relationship with her and the other people she is training.   A Young Man's Hope Karen: I had a young man contact me a couple of weeks ago that we met on our very first trip. He was not there the second trip, so we only met him once and for like five days. He was fourteen at the time. He just melted my heart because at first I would look at him and he would just look away. He was so shy, always hiding behind everyone. And towards the end of the trip, he would just follow me. Wherever we were going, he would fall into step with us. I would look at him, and he would smile. He would just beam. You could tell he was just so thirsty for love. He needed it so badly. When we went the second time, I was looking for him because I wanted to see him, but he had left the orphanage. I was sad. I never heard anything about him. And then a couple of weeks ago, he turned eighteen, so he contacted me on Facebook and said, "Hey, I am just wondering how you are doing.” I was like, " Oh my gosh, I cannot believe you remember.” And he was asking about what we are doing. At the time, we were living in Mexico and trying to do this. He said, "Oh, I want to go to that school.” I said, " Well, we do not have a school yet, but we are working on getting it.” And he said, " Okay, what do I need to do?” I said, " Well, if we had it set up, you would have to save up for a plane ticket. Then I would give you a list of rules that you would need to be willing to follow. And then once we get enough funding, you could come, and we could get you through whatever it is that you want to study.” He said, " Okay, that is so great. I am ready to go.” And I just see that happening, too. It is this age group. The teenage age group, right where they are. They have ideas. And a lot of these kids are so hardworking, especially because of the culture they grew up in. They have learned to work really hard, and they have often had to look after their siblings. So they are very responsible. They know that they can do great things. They just do not know how to get there. They are very clever because they have had to be resourceful. But when I see them, I am just like, Wow, there is this light and potential in these kids, and it just needs a little direction to guide them. And I think that is another thing my mom taught me. I see her now, and I am sure that as she was begging on the streets, people could probably walk by her and just assume she has no future. But she taught school for many years. She raised kids in this beautiful way. We all just know we are loved so deeply, and we have all been successful in different ways. Her confidence now is so much better. She has learned to grow through so many things. So I see her and who she has become, and I know each one of these kids has a divine potential, and each one of them can do incredible things for the world with just a little bit of guidance. Audrey: From the perspective of the kids, it is one thing for you to say, "I believe in you and you can do this.” It is a whole other thing for you to say, " My mom was you,” and for them to just be blown away that she has, from their vantage point, such a successful life and that they could raise a child like you someday, that they could overcome in the way that your mom did. It is so beautiful. Karen: Her story has always inspired me, just being what she has been able to do. I can just see how much hope it would bring the kids.   How to Support Find Your Path Mission Audrey: So, as far as next steps and where people can help, what does that look like? Karen: Like I said, we need to just get enough monthly donors to have the ability to provide the program at a basic level. Our goal by January is to have two hundred monthly donors. We are at twenty-seven right now. We figure if they average twenty-five dollars a month, some will be able to pay more and some less, but if that is the average, that is what we would need for a base-level program. So two hundred families at twenty- five dollars a month. And then we are hoping to find, as organizations like Child's Hope and several other places have found, corporate donors or individuals who have the ability to fund the administrative costs, so they can keep the program running and every other donation goes straight to the program. That is another thing we are praying for, specifically, to find someone or a few people like that who want to help in that way. Audrey: What do you need in terms of administrative costs? Karen: When we looked at the people we would need to pay for, the costs are not as high in Mexico because the cost of living is lower. What we figured out was that fifty thousand dollars a year would cover that. Audrey: Is it possible for people to come down and volunteer at any point? And can you tell us the URL to go to and other ways people can engage? Karen: The URL is FindYourPathMission.org. You can find service trips listed there under the top tab. There are some service trips available that you can sign up for. If you have a group, like a group that is coming outside of the scheduled times, we can work around them and schedule their own service work. For people coming with groups, they do not have to sign up in those particular times, but if you have a family, those times are available to sign up for. We also need people who are willing to work from home in social media and events and things like that to help get the word out about what we are doing. Then it would be really wonderful to have people be able to come out and serve in different ways. We would love someone into cinematography, for instance, or just to get some good videos out about what we are doing. With the service trips, we would have the day be: get up, do some kind of work project, then teach the kids for a couple of hours, then have dinner and a ropes course experience or some kind of excursion or activity in the evenings, and then a debrief at the end of the day. Audrey: How much is it per person for the service trip?  Karen: Six hundred fifty dollars for five days. Audrey: Is there a tab there to do the monthly donation? Karen: Yes, at the top of the screen, there is a donate button. Click on that, and it will say “one-time” or “monthly” and you can pick. And they can sign up for the service trip there, too. Audrey: What if they just want to be helpful from home and donate an hour or two a week? How do they get hold of you? Karen: We have an events team. We meet every week or every other week for an hour and just plan the next event and decide what we want to do. That would be one way to help, whether that is having booths at farmers' markets where we share information or being willing to take a booth somewhere. We have everything ready for the booth. They can take it and share information in different areas. There is also a volunteer from home tab on the website. And then we will have a social media and marketing team. So that is another way you could be involved. We meet every week for an hour and just start to make plans. This is all just getting started, and we are figuring things out as we go.   Closing Reflections Audrey: Well, that is wonderful. I could not commend you more highly. I want anyone listening to know it is pretty amazing to have had this image, this vision of what if moms could uplevel their relationship with God and gain all this self-discovery and learn to understand and live by principles. And then what if they went out in the community and served and made an impact. I have actually had quite a few women who have been through the academy reach out to me recently, working together in a myriad of ways because they are out there doing things. Founding schools, working with nonprofit organizations, serving on school boards, or in your case, starting this foundation in Mexico. It is really beautiful to watch that journey. They were already the kind of women who would do those kinds of things. Karen: I cannot overstate the impact that your work has had. The program and the podcast and just this constant dose of, you can do this, you have courage, God is with you, it is life changing. It has been transformative. So it is a joy to be on the journey alongside you. Audrey: When you were telling that story at the beginning about your experience, about how Christ suffered, and so he must know your potential, I had an experience quite similar to that. The basic message that God sent to me was that it was a little bit arrogant of me to be self-limiting, because I do not actually know myself nearly as well as he knows me. When I say, I feel right about doing this thing, I know it keeps coming back to my mind, I know that whatever those impressions are, but I just cannot do it for X, Y, Z reason. I can still fall back into that and have doubts. But he really tried to put a stop to that and let me know, "Look, I just know you way better than you know yourself. And I can open all kinds of doors that you do not have the power to open. So if you will just take the step, I will just keep opening the doors. You do not have to be amazing or perfect or have it all figured out. You just have to be willing to take the next step and trust that together we can pull this off.” That is how I feel about the work that you are doing in Mexico. You are the one who is just willing to take the steps. One of the things I used to say to myself was, "There is somebody better suited to do this. There is somebody with a better education or more life experience, or who is smarter than me.” There is certainly somebody better to do it. But that does not matter at all. The Lord is just going to take whoever steps forward. It really is all about being willing to be the person who accepts the call. That is what you have done. You have given your life to him and told him that you will accept the call. And so it is pretty bumpy. You are back in Texas, and you have suffered a lot being away from your husband. But that testing and determination will bring beautiful fruits eventually. I feel like sometimes those obstacles come so we can learn to trust him in all the little small things, so that we can trust him in the bigger things too. Karen: It has been a very refining experience. I think that is why it had to have some obstacles. If it was easy, we would not be prepared for the next step.  Audrey: Well, thank you, Karen. It is a joy to call you my friend, and I am so grateful for the work that you are doing. I know you love these kids, and they need what you are creating. I hope that as many people as possible will get behind the work and support it any way they can. Thank you for talking to me and for doing this. I really appreciate you. To learn more or to donate, visit FindYourPathMission.org.  

Resources Mentioned in the Episode: Where the Clapham Team Got Its Name The Story Behind the Mission Driven Mom & Where We’re Going Next The root of communication, communion, & community Free Upcoming Training - Thursday, April 23rd Mothers of Creation - September 26th in Provo, Utah During the chapter of my life when I had three little kids at home - I had friends. Good ones. I had a family I loved. I had my church. But what I didn't have was my people. I didn't have a place where I could ask the personal questions I was wrestling with. Where I could be vulnerable with the things I was quietly asking myself about who I was becoming, what I actually believed, whether I was doing any of this right… And then, through a series of rabbit holes, I found a little liberal arts program.  For the first time in my life, I was in a room with people who were actively searching for truth. And they weren’t just talking about it, they were hunting for it.  Something in me came alive that I hadn't even known was sleeping. That's what this week's episode is about.  Here's a little of what you'll hear: Why so many of us feel lonely even when we're surrounded by good people The difference between knowing things and actually being changed by them The story of a group of MDM graduates who found each other What it actually looks like when you finally find your people I think a lot of you are going to feel something shift when you hear this one.     AI Generated Transcript Community, the Clapham Team, and Finding Your People Introduction Welcome back to the podcast. I'm Audrey Rindlisbacher, author of The Mission-Driven Life and founder of the Mission-Driven Mom. You probably remember 2020 and COVID. It was such a terrible, difficult, awful time that we all went through. We didn't see it coming. It came out of nowhere, and before we knew it, we were contained in our homes. We couldn't go places, everything was canceled, and there was nothing we could go out and do. It was so hard. And during that time, we had launched the MDM Academy and the Mission-Driven Mom just a year or two before. So we had a Facebook group at that time, and I just decided I'm going to get on and go live every morning. So we got on and we went live, we talked every morning, we did our gratitude together, we talked about different things that were going on in our lives, and we supported each other through that time.   The Mothers of Vision Event That experience helped me know that we really needed to continue doing our MDM celebration, and so we concocted a plan to do it online and it worked great. A lot more women could come and it worked out beautifully. We were able to get a lot of women online, and we had to do it over two different days because there were so many women that we needed to mentor through it. That year was called Mothers of Vision — that was our theme. And we talked all about what it means to have a vision and why vision matters so much for us and for our families. What vision is, the tools for envisioning, and creating a plan around having a vision for our lives. We did a vision walk, all sorts of wonderful things. And when that was all over, we were just on the cusp of having our Level Three students come through. And I knew that they were going to finish and they were going to graduate from MDM — and then what? What was going to happen after that? And if you've been following this podcast very long, you know that we have a vision of changing the culture. That we want to walk with moms all the way through their own transformational journey — as they work on themselves, as they work on their families, and as they come to know the needs in their community. And then the Clapham Team is where they work together to have local impact. And so I shared a vision of being able to change the culture together through becoming the sorts of women who can see the needs in their community, who can be true servant leaders and make a real difference for good, and doing that with each other. So at that event — at that Mothers of Vision event — I cast this vision that we would have this community of mothers and that they would make a real difference. And if you listened to a recent podcast I did, I talked about where the Clapham Team name comes from, why we're the Clapham Team, and all of that.   The First Clapham Team Retreat I announced it at the Mothers of Vision event, and the women were ecstatic. They were so excited. This was definitely something that they wanted to be involved in. And so the following year we had our first retreat and we did it here in Texas, actually at a private home. I don't know, maybe about twenty women were there. It was awesome. We got a house that was on a lake, with a large yard and a large home. We trained, we went through presentations, we ate dinners, we played games, we journaled, we self-evaluated, we made plans for our futures, and we did a service project while we were there. And it was so incredible, so beautiful. And then — as you know, because I recently talked on the podcast about kind of an update on the state of MDM nowadays, and where we came from and where we're going — you know that we went quiet for a time. Because of a lot of factors about how we were running the company, the structure of things, and internal issues. I set it down for a while, and I was rebuilding it on a new platform so that it could always be available for women who had purchased lifetime access in the past. But I wasn't sure what the future held for MDM. I was just going to continue to make it available and work on my own things.   They Never Stopped Gathering What happened was that because we went quiet, these women — we had done this retreat two years in a row for the Clapham Team, and we had stayed in contact and done some trainings and things like that — they missed it. They missed each other. They missed the friendships, the relationships that they had forged. They missed having this opportunity to be together, to discuss great books, to share things that they were learning, to be lifted, to do a service project. And so they started doing it themselves. They still do it. Every year they get together and have this retreat. I think they do different themes each year. And the reason that matters so much is because for the first time in their lives, they had found their people. Many of them had never had friendships at this level of depth and connection. People that they could share conversations with around so many shared ideas and topics. People who wanted what they wanted — who wanted to learn and grow and develop and make a difference, but bring their families on the journey with them. Who wanted to be better women and better mothers and better wives, or whatever their circumstances were. And it was so nurturing and so beautiful that they are just still doing it today. It's incredible. Even though we don't offer it now, we are relaunching the Clapham Team this fall, and we are making plans for that and are really, really excited about that opportunity for everyone who is interested and invested. But this was so needed. It nurtured something so vital inside them that they just still need it, and so they provide it for themselves and for each other.   Communion, Communication, and Community Now, if you listened to another recent podcast, you might remember that I talked about communion and communication — that they both come from the same root, which means to unify your identities, to really see each other, to really understand each other, to connect on the deepest levels. And another word that is connected to all of those and comes from that same root word is community. We all need community. And sometimes we have community at church, or friends from high school or college, or neighbors, or people we work with, or the soccer club our kids go to, or whatever the case might be. And those are all wonderful and they all serve a purpose. But many of us lack intellectual, emotional, and spiritual community. The kinds of people who understand what principles are and want to find and live according to them. The kinds of people who know what it means to be in drama and who strive to be a creator instead. The kinds of women who will call us out when we are lying to ourselves, or who will cheer us on when we use our gifts and talents in meaningful ways. Women that we could say, have you read this awesome book? -- and they would want to read it and talk to us about it and find the truth that it contains. Or share podcast ideas, or get involved in a community project together. We all need those kinds of women in our lives.   Finding My People: Audrey's Story I've told this story often, and I'll tell pieces of it in the training that's coming up. We're doing an encore training in another couple of weeks. There's a link in the description and we would love to see you there. But I tell this story about my own past and my own experiences. When I had three children and I had all the mommy fog and the brain drain, I didn't have my people. I had friends and they were lovely. I had family and I loved them. But I didn't have a place where I could talk about ideas, where I could ask meaningful questions and other people would try to help me find the answers. Where I could discuss ideas and principles, but also what they had to do with me personally. A place where I could get really vulnerable about what was going on with me and in my life. And then I found these college courses. I found this liberal arts school. And even though it didn't have all of those components — it wasn't the same richness that we fortunately get to have in the MDM Academy, because it wasn't a place that was just for women and we weren't quite as able to be vulnerable, and we weren't all sharing so many of the same experiences — but it was definitely the first place in my life where people were actively seeking truth. Now let me just say a little caveat there. This isn't to say that people at church weren't seeking truth. Of course they were. And I had gone to church my whole life. It wasn't that we didn't have really good, meaningful conversations at church, or that we didn't talk about really meaningful, vulnerable, important things — we did. But this group, in these liberal arts classes, we had a shared canon. We had learned the same things. We had a shared language. We were learning some tools for understanding what truth was. We were actively on the hunt, and we were trying to figure out how to make our lives better, and we were doing it together. And it really was the first time in my life where I truly felt a sense of community around my own personal growth. Where we were on this journey together to not just learn, but to be better people. We didn't want to just read a book to read a book, or listen to a podcast just to do it. We wanted to glean those nuggets of truth and knowledge and goodness and beauty that would enrich our lives personally.   Real Education Is Adult Education Mortimer Adler said that the only real education is adult education. And he is absolutely right. Because it is not until we really get out into the world and we have some of those big life experiences -- not that we don't have big life experiences as children or as college students, but when we are really trying to navigate life without all those buffers around us and the people around us to help us -- we need answers in a way that is real and relevant and immediate. And our colleges -- I don't know why they can't learn the lesson that writing for the professor is just not satisfying. It does not change us. It's a knowledge-based system, and knowledge is important -- information is important -- but information alone and knowledge alone cannot make me a different person. And without those deeper questions, without asking meaningful questions and principle questions and interdisciplinary questions, we cannot get at the heart of what's keeping us stuck and how we can move forward. And without a community that is pushing us along, that is encouraging us and applauding us, but also pushing back when we really are lying to ourselves, or acting like a victim, or in self-deception, or not following the arguments properly, or unclear about someone's worldview, or don't know how to be a servant leader -- those tools and skills and frameworks and practice that we get in the MDM Academy -- without that richness, we are left to kind of flounder. And there are really good people out there teaching us really good things, but we don't know how to weed through all of that without an understanding of the differentiation between the principles and the applications. And the community is what makes so much of that possible.   Layers of Community You know, our first little community -- we do have a relationship with ourselves. That's a foundation. Our relationship with God and with ourselves is the foundation of all of our other relationships. But our family is really the first community that we truly belong to, and that belongs to us. And if we can infuse our family community with a common language about principles and truth and goodness, and personal growth and life mission, well then that community can be a support system to us all our lives. I now have people in my life -- in my immediate family, my husband, my children, my siblings, and friends -- who speak so much of this common language with me. And now we can talk about truth. We can analyze current events and parse through some of those principles. We can navigate life more effectively. We can push back on each other. And I've done this with friends, calling them out when they weren't living up to their potential. And they do the same for me. And it is so vital. And it starts with us. If we want that kind of rich family community, somebody in the family has to start it. Somebody has to get those frameworks and start the conversation and infuse the family with that language. At the Mission-Driven Mom, there are also other layers of community that we're involved with. There are the women who are in the academy with us -- women who are learning the concepts alongside us, along with an accountability partner or an accountability partner group that is walking with you step by step, day by day, activity after activity, journaling prompt after journaling prompt. And there's such an incredible sounding board. You are never, ever alone. In fact, I'll share something that Cadie said about this. She said: I found my people when I joined MDM. It's been a place where I've had people to discuss some deep and meaningful ideas and goals with. We all know what we're trying to do. We're trying to bring virtue back into society. It's wonderful to have a soft place to land after you feel like you've been in battle with negativity and a lot of the ugly things that are in this world. You are able to come back to this group of people who really understand you and can nourish you and help lift you back up after a hard day. It's priceless, honestly, to have like-minded people who are in the pursuit of truth, who share the language of principles with you, and who can walk with you on your path to your own personal transformation. And we don't just say, oh, it's a community because there's a community platform and you can post if you feel like it. No. It is a million times richer than that. We have an orientation meeting. We invite you to find an accountability partner, and there are tactical ways that we help you do that. We have a directory where you can find people who live near you. We have this annual event that you can sign up for and come to each year and meet people in person. And then there's the mentoring -- another layer of community. People who are just like you and me, but further ahead on the path. Who have made some of those changes, who have implemented some of those principles, and who are achieving a level of success that we can aspire to. They can become our new heroes, our new aspirational identities, the women we want to become like. And then there's the community around you -- your neighbors, the functions that you go to. And you can lift them. You can be the voice of reason. You can be the one citing the principles. You can be the one who is helping them to walk a better walk toward a more principled world. The Clapham Team, like I mentioned, is a space where you can do that upon graduation. You're welcome to join the Clapham Team immediately and to begin to be trained and supported as you strive to gather other like-minded women around you and to lift your own community in meaningful ways.   This Transformation Really Happens There are so many women who have walked this path. I've been inviting some of them onto the podcast in the last few months. You've heard from some of them. You've seen that this transformation really happens, that it really is possible. There are women just like you and me who make these changes in their lives, and the community is a big part of why that's possible. We are uniting our identities around the truth. We are the truth seekers who are lifting ourselves, our families, and our communities, and bringing them closer to the truth. That liberation happens one mom at a time, one family at a time, one community at a time. And I want to invite you to become more a part of that, to learn more about how this can be your people. They're not just my people and Cadie's people. They can be your people too.   Closing: Join Us for the Training And if you want more of that -- if you want like-minded women in your life who are going to encourage you and inspire you and also push back and motivate you -- then again, I want to invite you to come to the training that we're going to be doing and learn more about what all of this means for you. I'm going to give you some good tools and tactics to get you started, and it's absolutely free. Bring a friend. Start building your community right now by having a friend or a loved one -- a mother, a sister, a cousin, a neighbor, someone at church -- come to this training with you. Start building this language into your life and building a community around yourself so that it can lift you. And together we can lift each other, and we can lift the world around us. Thank you so much for joining me today. I hope you have a wonderful day, and I will see you next time.  

I made it through 15 years of formal education without ever hearing this story. And when I finally did, I just sat there thinking…. Why didn't anyone tell me this? It's the story of William Wilberforce and a small circle of friends and families in England who decided that someone had to do something about the world they were leaving behind for their children. So they did something. And over 70 years, they changed everything. I told their story on this week's podcast episode and I think it's going to stay with you.  This is a little of what you'll hear: Why your anxiety about the culture is actually clarity, not weakness The moment Wilberforce visited a village so poor that families were living in caves and what he did next Why protecting your children from the culture is the wrong goal How moms just like you are already doing this work in their communities This is one of the most hopeful episodes I've recorded in a while. Because I really do believe that women who are paying attention, rooted in truth, and raising their families with intention are exactly who the culture needs right now. Come listen. I think you'll feel it too. And if you're interested, you can sign up for my Free Training "How to Stop Feeling Powerless and Become the Expert in Your Own Life"   AI Generated Transcript Introduction: The Source of Maternal Anxiety Welcome back to the podcast. I'm Audrey Rindlisbacher, author of The Mission Driven Life and Founder of the Mission Driven Mom. Now, I don't think that mothers feel anxious today because there's something wrong with them. I think that they feel anxious because they see the confusion in our culture. They see the instability. They see the lost virtues and values. And they wonder to themselves, what kind of world are my children going to inherit? And last time we talked about you and your role as a mother and what it is that you can control — and that is yourself. And how, when you start working on yourself, everything starts to shift. And it starts with the way that you think. And not really so much like, oh, I've got to just hunker down and control my thoughts. It's like seeing the world through a new lens, through understanding how to see and identify truth. This is a new way of learning how to think that's actually very ancient, that we've lost, that we can start with. And we talked about how when you anchor yourself in that new lens, and you see the world in a new way, and you think differently, everything becomes different. And when you work on yourself and you tap into your personal power and you learn to lead yourself and better lead your family, then you put yourself in a position to actually be an influence to those around you. And I know for some of you that may kind of scare you or worry you, and like that's the last thing from your mind. You just want to get your house under control. But I want to cast that vision of how we can link arms and make the culture different. And I want to do it by telling you a story now.   The Declining Culture and the Power of Mothers I want to do this because when you worry about our declining culture, you're worrying about your children. You're worrying about the world that we're leaving behind for our children and for our grandchildren, because you see that there's increased anxiety in children. You see that there's moral confusion, that there's identity instability, to say the least. There's rapid cultural shifts and there's a huge loss of trust in institutions of all kinds, and there are really important reasons why that's happening. You and I have the power to turn things around. We can link arms as mothers and make a difference, and I'm going to prove it to you.   The Story of the Clapham Sect So I'm going to tell you this story about the Clapham Sect. I told you last time, we have a Clapham Team. And our Clapham Team is named after what was called the Clapham Sect or the Clapham Circle. I'm going to tell you their story for a minute. In October of 1787, a twenty-something William Wilberforce had, just over the last year or two, been through a profound conversion to Christianity. He had grown up Christian, but he had really lost faith in the supernatural and in God, and he'd had a reconversion. And part of this process of him really coming to God and putting his heart on the table and saying, okay, here I am, and offering himself to God — this is what he wrote in his journal: God Almighty has set before me two great objects. The suppression of the slave trade and the reformation of manners.   And by reformation of manners, he didn't mean make everybody more polite. He meant something very specific. Manners had a distinctly moral aspect in his use of the phrase. He wished to bring civility and self-respect into a society that had long since spiraled down into vice and misery. He wanted, among many other things, to stem the epidemic of teenage mothers prostituting themselves to pay for their gin habit. It was exceedingly progressive of him to see such actions not merely as crimes, but as symptoms of a larger social condition that required the extraordinary intervention of those in power. He wanted to not judge the poor and suffering, nor ignore them, but rather he would reach out to them and help them up. So he felt that God had given him this mandate and he devoted the rest of his life — his health, his energy, his focus, his attention, and pretty much his entire estate and wealth — to these projects. He died with not very much money left because he gave everything to this cause.   John Thornton and the Birth of the Clapham Circle Well, his conversion had been led out by a man named John Thornton, who was his uncle, and he was one of the wealthiest people in England at the time. He believed in what William Wilberforce wanted to accomplish. Not long before then, through a mistake with a law that was made, slavery itself was outlawed on the soil of England, but there was still an immense slave trade going on that England was participating in, and other aspects of slavery that they wanted to abolish permanently. And then this reformation of manners — in other words, making philanthropy and service fashionable — because it wasn't then, it wasn't the thing to do. In fact, there are so many people now who leave religion and say they don't believe in God, or whatever the case might be, but then they hold on to these fundamentally Christian religious values of philanthropy and service and good works, because they did this in the name of God. They did it to make the world a better place. John Thornton owned a home — an estate, really, he was very wealthy — about four miles outside of London in a place called Clapham. And his home, Battersea Rise, had a library there. This became the hub of a community of a growing number of people that did good works. And through their efforts over about 70 to 80 years, men and women joined hands and they engaged in good works all throughout England and beyond to change the culture itself. That instead of kicking the alcoholic to the side and ignoring him, it became, not at first socially acceptable, and eventually virtuous, to reach out and help that alcoholic, or prostitute, or whoever it was that needed helping.   Why This Story Matters Today I have a couple of books. There's not a lot written on them. In fact, a few months ago on our Facebook page — I think it was on Instagram too — I clipped a little video. This was before Charlie Kirk was killed, and it was the interview that Charlie Kirk did with Jordan Peterson, and they're having this conversation about how the story of William Wilberforce is one of the most important stories that needs to be told in the history of the world. Because slavery was institutionalized, it was practiced almost everywhere, all the time, throughout the history of the world. And both Jordan Peterson and Charlie Kirk make the comment that it was years later in their own personal self-education that they ran across his story at all and became aware of the incredible work that he had done. This is absolutely true of me. And I was just sitting there nodding my head like, yes, fifteen years of formal education and I never heard about this incredible man that gave everything to eradicate slavery and actually pulled it off in his lifetime. And through this network of men and women that he brought together — two to three hundred of them over time, and probably more. Those were just the founders and the people that were working, but then there were so many local people they brought into their circles. They did in fact reform the manners of England and beyond in the West. Made it fashionable to do good works. The lesser told story, even more than William Wilberforce, is the Clapham Sect.   The Mission Driven Mom's Clapham Team I could only find two books on them, but what happened was when I read Amazing Grace, we were in the middle of — I had been working on level three. We were bringing women through the academy, kind of for the first time, and I really felt like there needed to be a place for these women to go and continue to link arms. And now that they had these tools from these three levels of our academy, they needed to have support to be able to do good works in the culture. And we launched it. We actually have our own logo based on an image from the library at Battersea Rise. And we had a couple of retreats and they went amazingly well. And these women have now actually gone out into the world and done amazing things. One is trying to build — she has gotten land in Mexico and she's trying to service orphans there. Another — you heard from Katie recently on this podcast — founded a charter school in her town. You heard from Amy, who's got a school going in her area. There are women that have been on city council, that are working with other nonprofit organizations. Aaron is working with her community to help the homeless in their area. There are a couple of them that partnered together and put on women's retreats. So they have gone on to do incredible things. This process really does work. The Clapham Team itself went silent when everything in MDM went silent, which I talked about on a recent podcast as well. But now, of course, we're bringing it back. We're doing it again. We're institutionalizing it. We have new leadership around it, and we are super excited for what it can become.   What the Clapham Sect Accomplished But the point is that the Clapham Sect linked hands and they did change the culture. I'm going to read you — like I said — just a few things about them. There was, in the late 18th and early 19th centuries, a network of friends and families in England with William Wilberforce at its center of gravity, powerfully bound together by shared moral and spiritual values, by religious mission and social activism, by love for each other and by marriage. Their greatest and most celebrated achievement was the abolition of the slave trade and then slavery itself throughout the British Empire and beyond. They really knocked down slavery in dozens of countries through their efforts. They were founders of the British Colony of Sierra Leone, of Free Town, of schools and of Christian missions, some of which continue today. A number of them were members of Parliament and used their influence to promote causes from prison reform to the protection of Sunday, and from peace to censorship. They tried to reform the Church of England and achieved the moral transformation of Britain. It is incredible what they accomplished. So much of it outlived them. I'm going to read you some of the other things. They founded a whole lot of schools. They encouraged girls out of prostitution and helped them get on their feet. They cared for orphans. They helped boys in the navy. They supported Haiti. Prison reform. They founded mental hospitals. They even did work on animal cruelty. Pretty much any kind of charitable work you can think of came to their attention and they tried to do something about it.   The Character of William Wilberforce As I mentioned before, William Wilberforce gave everything. His health broke. He eventually married and his wife helped nurse him back to health. He was in chronic pain for much of his life, but he spent all of his time and energy. It's amazing to me because he was financially independent — and some of these others, John Thornton certainly, some of these other individuals — financially independent, the quote "four hour work week." They had all the time in the world. And what did they do? They consecrated it to the good of society. They tried to make things better for the coming generation. They looked outside of themselves and said, what problems do we see, and they tried to make a difference. And this is what we can do as moms. We just link arms and we help each other with projects that we see in our communities and we bring principled solutions. That's the difference between many of the good works that are going on out there. We need to raise them to a higher level. I had one of my past students contact me a couple years ago, and she was doing this. She was trying to make a difference. She was working with a nonprofit organization that had quite a bit of outreach that was trying to help mothers and children, and she could tell as she went through their curriculum that it was not principled, that they had not delineated the core elements that needed to be brought forward so people could have a better understanding of what they were trying to do. And she was trying to bring those principled solutions to real world problems. It was so amazing.   The Story of Cheddar Gorge I want to read you one last story from Amazing Grace. Go read it if you haven't. You'll read it when you come on the Clapham Team for sure. But this will just give you a little bit of a sense of the kind of people that these were. On August 21st, Wilberforce traveled with his sister Sally to Cowslip Green to visit Hannah More and her sisters. Hannah's sister Martha, knowing Wilberforce loved natural scenery, insisted that he take a trip to the nearby Cheddar Gorge, which afforded some of the finest scenery in England. Now, this is because he had been working tirelessly on all of these projects and he was worn out and he needed a break. So he went to visit these friends who were also people that were involved in all of these good works, and they told him, you should go out to this place, Cheddar Gorge. It's beautiful. It will help rejuvenate you. Cheddar Gorge is the largest gorge in the United Kingdom, with the sides of many caves. But during his visit, Wilberforce was less moved by the scenery than by the inhabitants of the area, whose poverty was extreme and, to Wilberforce, shocking. They had no school at all, nor any church. Some of the miserable souls did not even live in hovels, but scratched out an existence in the caves themselves. On his return to the Moores', Wilberforce was clearly of a mind to be alone with his thoughts on what he had just witnessed. He retired to his room to pray, did not touch his food, and later emerged with a clear purpose. "Miss Hannah More," he said, "something must be done for Cheddar." They discussed various schemes until the hour grew late. At last, Wilberforce declared, "If you will be at the trouble, I will be at the expense." And he meant it. Whatever they would do to help the poor there, he would fund it. Wilberforce insisted that Hannah not be shy in asking for his money. To do so, he said, would only be pride disguised as false humility. Over his lifetime, Wilberforce gave away more money than we can imagine, and he wrote the first of many generous checks to launch the Moores' work among the poor of that area. Hannah More soon started the first schools in the area and Wilberforce would continue to fund them for many years.   Applying This to Our Lives as Mothers If we will be willing to be at the work of first working on ourselves, like we talked about last time, and letting that lift us, and letting that lift our families, then we can link arms and we can lift the culture. Now, just as we finish up, I want to hit on a few reasons why it's so vital that we do this. Because culture always shapes our children. It is the water that we swim in, and whether it's intentional or unintentional, that culture is always affecting them. And if we don't shape their worldview, something else will. Children are always being discipled by something. So the question isn't whether or not our children are going to be shaped by the culture. The question is what's going to shape who they become? And this moment is so pivotal because truth is being redefined. I mean, think about it. We live in a "my truth, your truth" world, which I never thought we would arrive at. There are literally videos on YouTube where people are approached on the street and asked, "Hey, if I told you I was a gorilla, would you believe me?" And they say yes. Authority is fragmented because so many institutions don't stand on solid principles, and because servant leadership is at such a low ebb. Trust in authority and trust in institutions is at an all time low, and families are being pressured to outsource their leadership — to let the schools, to let the social media, to let the sports teams, to let anybody and everybody else raise their children, tell them what to value, teach them virtue, or not teach them virtue, or beat down the virtue that's naturally in them, instead of the family. But the family must go on. The family must do the work. It is the fundamental unit of society, and it's up to us to shape the world that our children inherit. The world is rejecting truth and we need champions of truth. And if you and I don't decide to be them, who will do it? Who will rise up and do it?   This Is Not About Panic — It's About Preparation Now, this isn't about panicking, running too fast, or worrying about anybody else besides ourselves. We can start with ourselves. It's about preparation. It's about just starting with you. It's about doing the thing you can do, controlling the thing you can control, because it will multiply. I was talking to a woman recently who has graduated from the Mission Driven Mom, who is in leadership now with our organization, and who has gone out there and done incredible works in her community. And we were having this conversation and she was basically saying, "I don't know how to turn this off. Like, I see all these problems in the world now. I see all these solutions that could be brought to my community, and it's just so hard to turn it off. And now all these people are reaching out to me. What should we do about this? What should we do about this? How can we solve this problem?" And I said, that's because when you lead yourself and your family properly, people see you as a leader. They know that you can help them. They know that you stand on principle because of who you've become. And so leadership will just become a natural part of who you are. And she said, "Oh my gosh, that's exactly what's happened. I just am seen as a leader in my community and I wasn't trying to do that at all. I was trying to work on myself, work on my family, and serve. That's it."   Why This Works Now, why does this work? This works because a principled mother creates stability, and stability creates resilience. And that resilience and self-leadership that you gain and that you give your children — they take into adulthood and they help stabilize the culture. It also works because, like we've said, you and I discover our gifts, we put our own lives in order, and then we go out there and we try to serve. We see what we can do to bless the world around us. We become principled servant leaders who serve our communities and make them better, and that is something that we can do together. The mistake that a lot of moms make is that they try to protect their children from the culture. They just say, oh well, you can't ever have a phone and you can't ever be on social media, scratch all that. The mistake that many moms make is that they focus on protecting their children from the culture instead of helping their children navigate the culture with truth, because they can learn to see the truth and teach their children to see the truth as well. And that means clarity, conviction, and servant leadership. That's what it means.   Starting With You That's all we have to do. We have to begin today to work on ourselves. So I'm going to run through what I read to you last time, because ultimately this all begins with you and your education, where we help you to think differently, and then everything changes. I promise, just everything changes. You become one, a mission-driven mom who works on herself so she can show up differently for herself and her family. A mom who seeks truth, identifies and stabilizes her life with it. A mom who learns to balance her own personal growth with that of her family. A mom who becomes intentional and begins leading her family to more principle-centered, meaningful, servant-leadership-focused living. She is powerful, confident, self-accepting and purposeful, and then she can formally as a Clapham Team member, or informally just in the rest of her life as she moves forward, she's in a role where she's part of a vast community of moms who are dedicated to lifting the culture, reinstating virtue and love of country, who speaks the truth with courage, who sees the problems in the community and works together with other like-minded women to bring principled solutions to real world problems. And when she does this — when she lifts herself and then lifts her family and lifts her culture together — we can all make the world a better place.   Closing: The Encore Training And if what I've talked about today and last week is something that resonates with you, if you can see that your ability to discern truth, to build yourself up as a person, to meet your needs, discover your talents, lead yourself properly, to learn to discern principles in the culture, to know how to link arms with like-minded individuals in the community, to link arms with other women just like you, and be lifted and lift your family and eventually be able to lift the culture — I want to share more about how you can do that in the training, this encore training that we're doing in the next few weeks. I would love to have you there. If you feel an urgency about our children's future, if you're concerned about what we're leaving behind and the world that we're leaving for your children and your grandchildren, come to that training. We'll talk more about actions that you can take right now. I'm going to give you some frameworks and some tools that you can take action on immediately, but we'll help to make a difference in your home. And you can learn more about how we do this, how we link arms and identify truth to make a difference right where we are, by starting with ourselves and leading ourselves first. So the link is in the description. Sign up for that training. Thank you for joining me today, and I will see you next time.  

Are you trying to figure out how to grow, make a difference, and still be fully present as a mom? For decades, women have been told fulfillment is either in the home or outside the home. But what if we’ve been asking the wrong question? In this episode, we explore what actually creates fulfillment, and why the most powerful investment you can make isn’t in a career path, but in the education of the mother. This is about reclaiming your influence, discovering your gifts, and learning how to lead your family with clarity, purpose, and truth. In this episode, we talk about: The real impact of the feminist movement on modern motherhood Why women still feel stuck and unfulfilled The difference between career training and true education How personal growth transforms your family culture What it really means to become a mission-driven mom This conversation will help you see that motherhood is not small, it’s strategic, powerful, and transformational. 👉 If you're ready to grow, find balance, and become the leader your family needs, join me for my upcoming training!   AI Generated Transcript  Introduction Welcome back to the podcast. I'm Audrey Rindlisbacher, author of The Mission-Driven Life and founder of the Mission-Driven Mom. In the 1950s, women and mothers were told that fulfillment only took place in the home, and after the feminist movement and beyond, they were told that fulfillment could only happen outside the home. But what about influence? Today we're going to talk about what happens when the focus is on the education of the mother and making the biggest investment so she can be the best she can be.   The Feminine Mystique and the Feminist Movement Now, this book, The Feminine Mystique, by Betty Friedan, was the catalyst for the feminist movement in the sixties. And if you want to know more about the history of feminism, you can go listen to my whole series on that, which I did a few years ago. We talk about it much more in depth there. But for today, I want to read you how this book begins. The very first words that she says. Now, it's also important to note — if you don't know this or haven't heard one of my other podcasts about it — that not only did this book take off, but book clubs were formed all over North America and hundreds of thousands, eventually millions, of women came together in their living rooms. They read this book, they talked about it, and that was the catalyst of the feminist movement. And here's how it begins: "The problem lay buried, unspoken, for many years in the minds of American women. It was a strange stirring, a sense of dissatisfaction, a yearning that women suffered in the middle of the twentieth century in the United States. Each suburban wife struggled with it alone as she made the beds, shopped for groceries, matched slipcover material, ate peanut butter sandwiches with her children, chauffeured Cub Scouts and Brownies, lay beside her husband at night. She was afraid to even ask herself the silent question — 'Is this all?'" And the name of that chapter is "The Problem That Has No Name." Now, what Betty Friedan said in this long, thick book — through a lot of pages, and she did do some research and she did talk to some people — was predominantly this: the answer is outside the home. The way that women can feel great and have a happy life is if they go have a super fulfilling career. And one author, her name is Carrie Gress, said this about the proposed solution that the feminist movement gave us: "Feminism proposes to fix women's problems without having the right solution. Feminism started with the wrong question and it led to the wrong solution. Feminism has had to rely on power, manipulation, and control to enforce and extend its influence. Feminism offered us women's studies and women's health and women's rights, but they didn't tell anyone — even once solid data was in — that their goals leave women miserable, unhealthy, and wondering what we did wrong. They didn't tell us that the life they want us to live serves those in power and not us."   Women Before the Fifties: A Broader Picture So — the pre-fifties. And this wasn't always the case for every single place in the whole history of the world, which is what people will tell you. And you can listen to my feminism series to know that that's the case. But predominantly, women were told: marry and have children, don't do anything else, and life will be wonderful. And traditionally, women were responsible for the private sector, and they found fulfillment in things beyond the home — like service in the community. But that was something that had tapered off. Many of the things that women used to do in society got taken over by governmental programs or structured nonprofit organizations. So the public bazaars and other outreach — helping women have their babies, helping people with their funerals, taking care of the poor and needy in the community, and the orphans and the young children — all those types of things that women used to contribute in society, they would marry and have children predominantly, yes, but they would also make these contributions by using their gifts and talents in the service of the community. And that had petered out. And so, yes, by the time we got to the forties and the fifties, there was the big surge with World War II when women were out doing things, and they felt the power and the excitement that came from doing things both in their home and outside their home. They were struggling to find that balance. But then as we really settled into the fifties, and so many of these programs were starting to pop up and take control of the needs of the less privileged in society, women found themselves less able to engage in self-expression. We could talk all about the educational components of this and the other reasons why this has been happening to us. But one of the most important things that was a result of this feminist movement — of telling women that they needed to go out into the workspace in order to feel fulfilled — is that we still feel like we want to be wives and mothers. Most women, if you poll them, still want that. But there's a stigma around it. And a lot of women feel ashamed to admit it, like it's weak or lame or old school. And we've had some generations of women grow up now and try to live that out — getting married later, trying to have children later. You know, the current spin on this is all these women freezing their eggs so that they can have career first and then have children later when they're older. One of my favorite quotes of all time is from Phyllis Schlafly, who said: women can have it all, just not at the same time. Because we want to have a season of bearing children, we need to live seasonally, and we need to find this balance.   The Thankless Work of Motherhood But it is easy to get lost in motherhood. It is easy to have mommy brain. And it is easy to feel discouraged when you give everything and there's not a lot of people giving back. One of the biggest reasons for this is because it's a pretty thankless job. I mean, most of you probably have pretty good husbands and they see you and they care and they thank you. But for the most part, you're just doing your thing and you don't get paid for it, and you don't get public recognition for it, and you don't get to move up in the company, and you don't get to be on stage and be applauded. You don't get all the accolades and rewards that can be gained in worldly pursuits. And so what's fascinating to me about this whole problem is that we are still asking the same question that women were asking in the fifties and the sixties. We're still trying to answer the same question that Betty Friedan was trying to answer. Ironically, she herself was upper middle class. She lived in a big, really comfortable home. She had several children and nannies and all sorts of help. She had a thriving career as a writer. So she didn't really need it. And maybe she was trying to help other women — and good on her if she had those good intentions.   The Same Question, Still Unanswered So women still have the same problem that they had then. And I'm not anti-feminist. I'm not saying it wasn't a good thing to let women have different kinds of jobs, or to have more options, or to be paid more comparably to men, or things like that. It's just that there was a mindset at the time. And if you go listen to the feminism series, I think you'll better understand what it is I'm trying to say here. Because it's not like it was all bad. It's just that the whole approach in the feminist movement was aggressive. It was a victim mindset. The problem is all out there. And again, I'm not saying the feminist movement was all bad — I'll say more about that in just a minute. But what I want to make the point is that because the feminist movement didn't have all the right answers, even though some progress was made in some ways, the fundamental issue for women is still there. And in some ways — and I've got some really good books if you want to look into this further — there's an argument to be made that maybe in some ways we're actually worse off. No one is allowed to say that the feminist movement left us worse off. But the fact that we are sometimes ashamed or a little embarrassed if we're not pursuing careers, or we feel like something's wrong with us if we can't find balance as a stay-at-home mom who wants to do something outside the home — finding that balance is so difficult. And it was difficult then, and it's difficult now. So the question that we're all asking — still asking — goes something like this: How can I be all I could be, make a difference, and be a great mom? I was definitely there. I was definitely that young mom with three kids and mommy brain, asking myself those questions, struggling to find the balance, wanting to — I didn't want to leave my babies and go pursue a career. But I was pretty brain-dead five, six, seven, eight years in. And so when I found the opportunity to begin to develop myself — after I had tried all these things, after I had tried individual therapy, marriage therapy, coaching, books, self-help, retreats, and mom programs — after I had tried all those things, I finally found a new opportunity that was going to educate me to think differently. And I said no. I said no for quite a while, because it felt to me like it was wrong. Our income was limited. My time was very limited. Blaine was working really hard to provide for us, but he was gone a lot because he wanted to keep me home — that was a priority for us. And so I was really grateful to him, but that meant that it was pretty much all on me to be all the things at home, most of the time. And then our income was accordion-style and commission-based, and so that was difficult. I just felt like it would be wrong for me to spend this money. I mean, I ended up over time spending — between books, programs, and all the other things I tried, including my bachelor's and master's degrees — over a hundred thousand dollars eventually. But even those first classes for a couple thousand dollars were really hard for me to say yes to, because I just felt like that was the wrong thing to do.   The Best Investment a Family Can Make And then I read this quote. This beautiful quote that said: the best investment a family can make is in the education of the mother. And I knew exactly what that meant. That meant that I needed to be the best I could be so I could build the best family culture we could possibly have. That I could only lift my children to where I had traveled. And that in order to be what they needed me to be, I needed to be more. And that meant I needed to be working on me. And it's so interesting, because we did this training recently, and when the training was all over, one of the women asked some more questions about how she could get her husband to support her. Because he thinks that if they're going to spend money on education, it should be for her to get a degree — accredited, something that would allow her to earn more money. The underlying message was: if I'm going to get an education, if I'm going to go to school, it should make me a better breadwinner. And I don't think that's a bad thing. That's a very good thing, especially if the family could use more money. But the problem is that education — true education — is about helping you and I become more principled and more virtuous, to become supremely human. It's meant to build our relationship with ourselves, with God, with the world, with others. It's meant to make us the most of who we could be. It's meant to train our thinking skills. Historically, it was meant to come before the training. Now we have come to equate the word education with career training. If the classes we take don't bring in more money, then they weren't worth the expense. What's ironic is that on the other hand, we've lost our ability to become better — to think more clearly, to creatively problem solve, to develop our talents. First of all, we have to figure those things out entirely on our own, or we go do things like therapy. And therapy is really expensive — often more expensive than even going back to school, because it adds up every single month. A hundred fifty, a hundred seventy-five dollars is a very typical price to pay. So you're spending five, six hundred dollars a month just to go talk to someone. And sometimes that's helpful and sometimes that's needed. But sometimes what you really actually need is to know how to think in principles, and how to creatively solve your own problems, and how to become the expert in your own life. And that education has been ripped away from us. It's not available anymore. And so it's not surprising that we are losing the education that gave us the foundation to be more principled, at the same time that we have a societal stranglehold on sex roles so stilted that women feel stuck at home — and then we decide that the answer is to just send them into the workforce and leave home and family behind. And none of those things are the right answer. I gave this woman some ideas and some suggestions. I told her to watch the training with her husband and to help him understand why living according to principles and thinking in new ways was going to be so important for their whole family — and why it was going to lift and really enrich their relationship as a couple. Her husband really didn't see how the whole family was going to be incredibly enriched and lifted through the program, through what we do at the Mission-Driven Mom. But ultimately, she's in the same boat I was in. They're asking the same questions. They're saying the same things I was saying: if I'm going to spend money, shouldn't it be so that I can make money for the family? But actually, what's more important for the family is the character of the people in that family. What's more important is their virtue. And what's most important is their ability to problem-solve with truth — to have the ability to discern truth wherever they see it, and to have the truth make them free. I mean, I don't really care if my children are really well off. Certainly I want them to have skills to be self-reliant financially. But it doesn't take a ton of advanced education and skill sets to be comfortable. What I definitely want is for them to be fulfilled. I want them to do work that's meaningful to them. And that means some good self-discovery and self-knowledge. That means developing their talents and gifts. And that means doing things in society that are meaningful for them and for other people — lifting the people around them, serving them with their gifts. And our education just doesn't give us the tools and the skills to be able to do that anymore. And so of course, her husband has a paradigm that they should only spend money on her if she's going to bring money back into the family. But that's not the fundamental problem that's going on for these women. For most of us, the fundamental problem is: we're not sure what gifts and talents need developing. Sometimes we don't even know who we really are. Our relationship with ourselves is really pretty messed up. We don't understand our real needs. We're not really meeting those needs. We don't know how to lead ourselves better so that we can better lead our families. And certainly, for most of us, we don't know how to recognize a true principle and harness its power to solve significant problems in our lives. And so this question — how can I be all I could be, make a difference, and be a great mom — it's still on the table. It still lives out there. We're still grappling with it.   What Happens When the Mother Is Properly Educated And what we need to realize is that when the mother is properly educated to recognize truth, everything transforms. Then there's this clear target. If she is going to go out and earn some money, well, that's going to streamline that whole process. She's going to know herself so much better. She's going to have clarity about where she should head. She could also do service work in the community that would be so much more meaningful — and bring her children with her — and it would enrich their relationships and bring so much joy and fulfillment. She'll also know how to creatively problem-solve. She'll also lift the quality of all the relationships throughout the whole family. Her children will watch her leadership skills and her example and want to follow and be like her. The decision-making will be so much clearer, and it's never anymore about who's right and who's wrong — it's let's find the truth. All the relationships will be lifted. One of the things that was so amazing to me as I was going back through some of these testimonials — I mentioned this last time — was how much relationships were improved when thinking skills were improved. And it's a multiplier effect. When one mom is transformed, it influences the whole family. And then that family influences the neighborhood and the community, and enough of those communities influence our whole culture. And what you really need to know is that you have so much more power than you think you have. I know sometimes we feel so stuck and we're just not sure how to move forward. But when you know how to harness that power — and here's what a lot of it boils down to — the feminist movement had some right ideas. They were asking some good questions. The problem was the way that they moved forward was from a victim-and-drama perspective. What they did was they said: the enemy is out there. It's the culture, it's the patriarchy, it's the men. When we fix all the stuff out there, we'll feel happy and fulfilled. And actually, statistically, the self-declared personal happiness and life fulfillment of women has declined ever since the sixties, seventies, and eighties. It's been on the decline. And actually for men it's stabilized or gone up a little bit. So it didn't work, in the sense that women as a whole are not happier than they were. And that's because even though there may have been some things culturally — in marriages, in the way the sexes interacted — that could use upleveling and improving and becoming more principled and true, the problem had to start from within. The women had to tap into their own personal power. They had to work on themselves first. Because you can't go change the world until you change yourself, and you really can't expect to lead well in your home until you lead yourself well. And that requires certain skills, certain principles, certain tools and levels of understanding. Had those women in the feminist movement started with themselves — looked inside themselves and identified the ways that they were in self-deception or acting like victims, if they had started asking more empowering questions and telling themselves the truth and being creators in their lives — if they would have met their needs better, all of those types of things — then from a standpoint of strength and courage and confidence, they could have lovingly renegotiated relationships. They could have still stood on principle, but they would have done it from a place of love and kindness and generosity. And then everyone would have been enriched. And personally, I don't think we would have seen this massive increase in divorces like we saw through the seventies and eighties. It was incredible how many people were divorcing. And I don't think all those divorces needed to happen, because I think those women could have looked inside themselves, tapped into their personal power, become more of who they could be, and then led their families better, and then together led their community.   Becoming a Mission-Driven Mom So the answer here, at the Mission-Driven Mom, to this question — how can I be all I could be, make a real difference, and still be a great mom — is first to become a Mission-Driven Mom. And I want to read to you what I wrote down about this, because it's important that you see the kind of woman that you can be. She is a woman who works on herself so she can show up differently for herself and her family. A mom who seeks truth, identifies it, and stabilizes her life with it. A mom who learns to balance her own personal growth with that of her family. A mom who becomes intentional and begins leading her family to more principle-centered, meaningful, servant-leadership-focused living. She is powerful, confident, self-accepting, and purposeful. That is who you and I can be. And when we are closer to that destination — when we are more Mission-Driven Moms — we will see the world so differently. Because when you learn to think differently, it changes the way that you behave. And then that changes everything. It especially changes the way that you respond. Because one of the testimonials in the training is from a woman named Heidi Matthews, and she talks about how she realized that most of her people problems were actually problems that she was helping to create, or that she was reacting wrongly to. And that she had so much more power. And through learning to become a Mission-Driven Mom, she actually healed her marriage.   The Clapham Team Now, the second phase of all of this — and I'm going to get into more detail about this next time and tell you more of what this means in our next podcast episode — I want to share it with you now, because when women go through our academy and they graduate, they're given the opportunity to step onto what we call our Clapham Team. And that has a certain meaning and message that I'm going to share with you next time. But I want to read you what I wrote about what Clapham Team members are like: In her role as a Clapham Team member, she sees herself as a member of a vast community of moms dedicated to lifting the culture — reinstating virtue and love of country. Women who know and speak truth with courage. Women who see real problems in their communities and work together to apply principled solutions. These are noble, courageous, virtuous women who elevate the people around them and invest in each other's worthy projects and goals. They know their mission will succeed because they are part of this nationwide, worldwide Clapham Team, which seeks to emulate the work done by the early Clapham Sect that literally changed the world. They are the hope for the future. So if you're stuck in that place where you're frustrated and overwhelmed and stuck in mommy land, and you want to grow as a person and want to balance your personal growth with the needs and wants of your family — and you want to find that elusive balance — and if you could arrive there, if you could be a truly Mission-Driven Mom who can identify a principle, who can see truth in our culture, who can lead her family confidently — maybe just maybe, you could bring more of that truth and light to the people around you. In your neighborhood, in your school, in your church, wherever you associate. Because remember that motherhood is not passive. It's not small. It's not peripheral. Motherhood is actually formative and strategic and transformational. Just imagine moms who know how to think clearly, who know how to identify truth, and who know how to link arms in meaningful projects and purposes. This is what we want to help bring into the world. And I want to share more with you next time about what the Clapham Sect and Clapham Circle means and what that team means.   Closing: Your Personal Growth Matters But for now, for today, I want you to remember that there is no better investment a family can make than in the education of the mother. Because everyone will rise to her level, because she sets the tone and creates the family culture. And so your personal growth matters. It matters so much. I thought that working on myself would hurt my family, and all it did was help my family to blossom. And that wasn't because I went and got a certain degree to do a certain thing and we made more money and went to Disneyland more — which is not a bad thing. It just means that the way that I think, the way that I talk to my children, the words around truth and principle that infused our home, the goals we set together, the unity that we experience, the love that we have for each other continues on to today. And that was made possible by me starting with myself. And so it is vitally important. It's just the opposite of what you might think. You should not put off your own personal growth and learning to find that balance and learning to think in a principle-centered way, because all it can do is enrich everyone in your family, bless all your relationships. And so if you are feeling like that's something that you want more of — if you're feeling a little bit stuck, or you want to find that balance, or you want to know how to link arms with other women, discover your gifts, and start to make a difference in your community — then join me for the training. We're doing an encore presentation coming up in a few weeks, and I would love to see you there. The link is in the description, so go ahead and sign up. Come to the training and you can learn more about how you can engage. I'm going to give you some practical tools and tips that you can start implementing right now to move in that direction. So join us for that training and I'll see you next time.  

What if communication isn’t actually about saying the right words? In this episode, Audrey Rindlisbacher reframes communication through a deeper, more powerful lens - one rooted in communion, not just conversation. Drawing on insights from C.S. Lewis and timeless principles, she explores how true communication is about unity, attention, and meaningful connection. If you’ve ever struggled in your relationships, felt misunderstood, or wondered why better “communication skills” haven’t fixed things, this episode will shift how you think - and how you show up. You’ll learn: Why communication is more than words, tone, or body language The connection between communication and communion How giving, receiving, and attention transform relationships Why high-quality relationships are the foundation of a meaningful life Practical ways to deepen connection with God, yourself, and others This is for any woman or mom who wants to build stronger relationships, grow in emotional and spiritual intelligence, and become more intentional in how she connects. If you’re ready to stop managing conversations and start transforming relationships, this episode will guide you there.   Introduction: Rethinking Communication Welcome back to the podcast. I’m Audrey Rindlisbacher, author of The Mission-Driven Life and founder of The Mission Driven Mom. And today we’re going to talk about communication. And I know that may fall a little flat. We have this kind of paradigm in our culture that everything is about communication, and if we could just communicate better, then everything would be better. And we mean something very specific by that. We usually mean the words we’re saying. Sometimes we talk about body language and how that matters, and tone of voice a little bit. But mostly we think if we just got all the right words right, and we just said all the right things, that our relationships would just be wonderful. And we go to therapy for this, and we read books, and we go to trainings. And what if communication wasn’t actually what we think it is? I came across this quote from C.S. Lewis, and it completely reframed the concept of communication for me. And I’ve thought about it differently ever since.   A Deeper Insight from Experience One of the reasons I want to talk about this today is because I’ve been creating a training that we just did recently. In creating this training, I was talking about natural law and about tools to help women better understand and recognize truth. And I wanted the women who attended to have an experience with other women who had been through our program and had a great experience. As I was going back through so many of those testimonials and vetting them for this training, there was a common theme. There were a few common themes. Truth is obviously one of those. But one of the common themes was relationships. These women said over and over again how much better their relationships were. All of their relationships—with God and with themselves, which is what Level One is all about—and then their relationships with everybody else had improved. And it has to do, at least partly, with this concept of communication. Communication and Communion So this is the sentence that I read from C.S. Lewis that really tipped me off: “I have tried to assume nothing that is not professed by all baptized and communicating Christians.” I had never thought about the connection between communication, communicating, and communion. I don’t know why—it had just never occurred to me that they must have the same root word and must have something to do with each other. Because communion, of course, is when Christians go to church and take the sacrament. So this got me thinking. When Lewis says “communicating Christians,” he means people who are actively participating in their faith. So I went back and did some research. I looked at root words and older definitions. If you’ve been around here long, you know the 1828 dictionary is a resource we use often because we want to understand what words originally meant. The root of the word commune comes from Latin words meaning identity and unity. So when you put that together, the root meaning of commune is to unite identities. Isn’t that fascinating? The True Meaning of Communication When we are communicating, what we are meant to be doing is unifying our identities. We are taking two separate things and helping them understand each other better, come together more, and move toward unity. Unity of purpose. Unity of understanding. In the 1828 dictionary, definitions include: To converse To talk together Familiarity To partake in the Lord’s Supper And when you look up “communicating,” it says: To impart, to give to another To share jointly To bestow something to be held, used, or enjoyed To mutually share in something So from a Christian perspective, communion is a reciprocal exchange. God gives to you, and you give back. It is a process of giving and receiving. And that is what communication actually is. A Shift in Perspective Communication is not just words. It is: Giving Receiving Enjoying Uniting identities These are elements of communication that we almost never think about. We focus on body language, skill sets, active listening, and techniques. But we don’t ask: What is the goal? The goal is unity. The process is reciprocal giving. So when I think about being in a relationship, and I see communication as a place where I give and receive in order to unite identities, it becomes a completely different experience. Love as Attention Another aspect of communication comes from Scott Peck. He taught that the most important form the work of love takes is attention. When we think about people who truly love others, they: Give without expecting return Pay close attention Are intentional in how they give He says that true listening requires setting aside our own perspectives so we can enter into someone else’s world. This is what real communication looks like. It is not technique. It is intention. Communication Begins Within We can even do this with ourselves. One of the reasons journaling and discussion are so powerful is because they allow us to: Listen to ourselves Empathize with ourselves Unite our identity internally Many women carry false beliefs because they have not truly listened to themselves. Instead of asking: What principle can help me here? We ask: What’s wrong with me? But when we commune with ourselves and with God, and align with truth, we begin to understand ourselves better. What We Are Really Doing When We Communicate In communication: We are set up to give, not just take We are trying to unite identities We are offering love, acceptance, and attention And many moms struggle to give themselves that kind of attention. Not just comfort or distraction—but deep, meaningful attention to real needs. Why This Matters So Much Why does communication matter so much? Because relationships are everything. Research—like the Harvard study—shows that the people who live the longest and happiest lives have the highest quality relationships. And those relationships are built on our ability to truly commune. A Higher Purpose for Communication There is also a deeper reason. C.S. Lewis, in The Weight of Glory, explains that our relationships matter because every person we interact with has eternal potential. He says that the weight of our neighbor’s glory should rest on us. Meaning: We are participating in who they are becoming. Every interaction matters. Final Reflection Questions So I want to leave you with a few questions: When you communicate: Are you trying to give or to get? Are you trying to connect or to control? Do people feel seen and accepted by you? What would the world look like if we thought of communication as communion? As giving, receiving, and uniting identities? Closing Invitation This is why at The Mission Driven Mom, we focus so heavily on relationships. Because they are at the heart of our happiness or unhappiness. And they are shaped by our ability to truly communicate. I want to invite you to join me for an encore of our recent training. I’ll be giving that presentation again in April. If you want the tools we discussed, the link is in the description. In the meantime, think about communion. Unite your identity. Give your attention. And watch what happens in your relationships. I’ll see you next time.

Guess what?! I've spent quite a bit of time over the last couple of months putting together the training I'll be giving this week! (I'm super excited about it by the way 😉.) And as I was editing it down to make sure it isn't too long, I had to cut out some information I really wanted you to have. Then I realized - I can just put it in this week's podcast so you still have it!  I know many of you, like me, feel frustrated, overwhelmed and sometimes even scared with what's going on in our culture. And I want you to better understand WHY these things are happening. So this week I dive deep into the History of American Education and how it mirrors the moral decline in our culture. When I made these connections, it literally changed the way I see the world, and how I navigate it. I WANT that for you too!  That's why this week I talk about:  the surprising moment that opened my eyes to the education I had never received why reading original great thinkers changed the way I understood truth and personal growth the kind of learning that strengthens reasoning, communication, and relationships what our modern education has lost and why that matters so much now why I believe moms need these tools if we want to lift our families and our culture So if you want to... make better sense of what's going on in our crazy world know how to better lead your family in the madness stop feeling scared and gain clarity about what you can actually DO about our culture link arms with like-minded women and start turning things around... Then give this one a listen. And PASS IT ON if it resonates because we both know that understanding the problem is the first step to solving it. This week you'll gain that understanding!  With love,Audrey P.S. For the rest of this story and more insights on how you use what I share in this podcast to solve your significant problems and move forward in your life, join me in the live training this Thursday night!   AI GENERATED TRANSCRIPT Introduction Welcome back to the podcast. I’m Audrey Rindlisbacher, author of The Mission Driven Life and founder of The Mission Driven Mom. And if you are someone who has been looking around at our culture and you feel like it’s crumbling, you see the loss of virtue and the loss of truth, you feel frustrated, overwhelmed, maybe even scared, you are not alone. There’s a reason for that. Our culture is declining, and it is scary and overwhelming and difficult to deal with. So today I want to talk to you about the education that you probably didn’t have that would help you to identify truth, and how that is the key for you and I to solve our significant problems. You’ve been listening. I’ve been talking about this training that I’m going to do that’s coming up, and building out that training, I’ve had to leave most things out. Originally, I had a story in there that I wanted to share with you, but it didn’t make it into the final cut. And so I figured in today’s podcast, I could share with you what didn’t make it into the training. And by doing that, it will better prepare you for that training. You’ll have a better idea what you can expect, and you’ll just have some background and some depth around the things that I’m going to share, a better understanding about why it matters so much.     A Difficult Season of Motherhood So some of you have probably heard the story that when I was a young mom, I had three kids in six years, and things were really, really rough. My husband had this pornography issue that he told me about before we got married, but it just got worse after we got married. I was not dealing with it well, and of course my pregnancies were really, really difficult. I was in bed, throwing up, hospitalized. And then finances were rough because we were a one income family and my husband was commission based, and so I was constantly worried about money. Of course our marriage was struggling through the financial problems and the parenting problems and the pornography problems, as you can imagine. Then on top of that, we had all these extended family issues that complicated everything. In fact, around this time, both of our parents were separated. Blaine’s were divorcing. I was kind of my mom’s confidant, and it was really, really rough going. And I just got to this point where I had dedicated myself to my children for six or seven years at this point, and I felt a little brain dead. I felt like I was getting lost in it all. I was starting to feel more and more depression, less and less motivation to do the things that I knew I needed to do to take better care of myself, and I felt like I just needed and wanted something for myself. I didn’t have any idea what that was.   Discovering a New Kind of Education In fact, I spent like a year looking for something that was for me, that was not going to take over my life. I didn’t want to go have a career, especially at this point when my children were young, but I needed something. So about this time, I was talking to my sister in law about all these issues. She turned me onto this little college, which unfortunately has since gone defunct. And she said something like, well, you can help build your own curriculum or whatever. And I was like, what are you talking about? That’s weird. So when I went to her house, she opened up the computer and she showed me their website. And that moment is just seared on my brain, in her family room, looking at her computer that was sitting on the little desk in the family room. And the number one thing that struck me so hard was this school listed their curriculum on their website, and it said that they read Plato. And I didn’t even know what to think. I remember like yelling, like bursting out, they read Plato? What in the world? And then I realized that I had never read Plato. And then I realized that I had never thought about the fact that I had never read Plato. And then I thought, how did I make it through fifteen years of formal education? If we had his writing still, why wasn’t that part of the curriculum? Well, duh. He’s like one of the smartest people that’s ever lived. You would think that if you wanted to give people a decent education, you would have them read from the smartest people that ever lived, right? So I was just dumbfounded and so intrigued, so interested.   Reading the Great Thinkers And it took me quite a while to decide to sign up. And I’ll talk to you more in the training about why I ended up signing up and what it has to do with you and your family and your family legacy. But I did end up signing up and taking classes. And I want to talk to you about something I’ve really never talked about in this much detail before for the next few minutes because I think it’s really important for me to give you context and a framework around what was happening at this school. So first of all, we read stuff like Plato. Okay. We read Aristotle. We read, I don’t know, all the people, Plutarch and Archimedes and Marcus Aurelius and Cicero, some whose names I’d heard, some who I hadn’t. I had to become acquainted with people like Hobbes or the Scottish Enlightenment or the Age of Reason thinkers or whatever. Even people in the Renaissance, I only knew the artists at this point. So we’re reading from the people who had the ideas first or who fleshed them out in ways that were super impactful for the culture. So that’s radically different. No textbooks. Sometimes there’s a compilation of readings, like short selections from individuals. Sometimes there’s a really, really reputable, well researched, and original writings author to give us a summary of something, and then we would have selections of original writings to go along with that, like for example in American history. But the focus was to go to the source, to be at the original writing itself. And it was so hard, so incredible. It just made all the difference in the world to read from that person their original idea instead of reading all these other people who were going to tell me what that person thought of whatever. And that’s what a lot of our textbooks are like today, right? They are four, five, six layers away from the original writing. They read the commentary of someone’s commentary of someone’s commentary instead of just going to the source.   Learning Through the Source Now, when I tried to read these, I didn’t always get it the first time or the second time or even the third time through, and I didn’t always have time to read them a lot of times through. But I would get a little, and that little bit would open up my mind. It would increase my confidence. It would make new neurons fire in my brain and help me to see things in brand new ways that I never saw them before. So I signed up and I’m just doing first this distance course, and it’s just the readings, and I’m having a phenomenal time. In fact, it took me a year and a half to do my first distance course because I didn’t have structure, I didn’t have deadlines, I didn’t have mentoring, I didn’t have other students, I didn’t have anything. I just kind of had a list of readings mostly. And eventually I ended up hiring a mentor to help me finish the course because it was like I was so stuck in The Federalist Papers. I just could not figure it out. Well, eventually there were distance courses, and I was able to go to a real classroom with students, with a mentor. And I didn’t know until that point the other aspects of what this education was like.   The Power of Socratic Discussion And I’m going to talk to you in just a minute about its history and its rich context and why it matters so much. So we get into these classrooms, and instead of having a teacher, we have what they keep calling a mentor. The mentor is way ahead of us, but they’re also like a student with us. And instead of having rows of chairs facing this teacher and having all these lectures happening every time and we’re just sitting there absorbing information from the guru of gurus like you would do in college, often we were in a circle. If we were online, we were all just equal squares right on the screen, and we were all talking to each other. It was Socratic discussion, which I didn’t know what that was, and I didn’t know it came from Socrates, and I didn’t know Plato taught us about it. I didn’t know it meant learning through asking and answering deep, meaningful questions. And the mentor led because the mentor is way ahead and they are sculpting it. They are using the thoughts and ideas of this really rich reading and the people that come with all of their background and their personal experience, and they’re using all of that to sculpt this beautiful environment where we all learn from each other. And they’re using incredible questions, and they’re using other resources that they’ve read, and they’re using their experience, and they’re using their well honed reasoning skills. And that’s one of the goals that they’re trying to help us with, is just to think better. Just to actually stop, slow down, think things through, ponder them, sit on them for a while, and really have them percolate in our minds and in our hearts so that they become part of us.   Becoming a Better Thinker And it was crazy in these discussions because the mentor would ask me what I thought, and that had never happened before. And then Jacques Barzun teaches, he’s one of many incredible people that teach how to run great discussions, he says that great mentors will push their students back up against the wall of the great absolutes. And so that’s what the mentor is doing, is inviting conversation, helping us to be vulnerable, helping us to engage in a quality conversation with each other, but then pushing back against our assumptions and against the answers that you just give off the cuff or the things you’ve been taught to think by your culture. And they make you question your assumptions and conclusions that you’ve drawn and beliefs that you have and ways of being that you’ve adopted because you might not be in line with good logic. You might be living out beliefs that aren’t helpful to you and you might be totally out of line with truth. And so I came to understand over time, as I eventually wrote courses for this school, and I’ll talk about that in just a second, and I was taught to mentor, and I got lots and lots of practice there, and then of course for the last twenty years I’ve gone on to practice that lots and lots of places. And what I learned is that this Socratic discussion is so valuable because it teaches you to listen way better to other people, to be far more empathic to their thoughts and ideas because you’re letting them talk through what’s going on with them. It really helps you to hone your reasoning skills and to have to think through things. Your communication skills are really leveled up. Your diplomacy, you have to back off and be more careful about what you say and how you say it because there’s lots of different people in the room. But you also have to increase your courage and ability to say what you really believe, but to be empathic and charitable and kind in the way that you do it. And what I started to see eventually over the years was these tools that I gained in these Socratic discussions were developing and honing my relationship skills. I was just better at relationships in general because I had learned how to ask better questions, how to listen more intently, how to push back kindly with questions, how to state what I believed, how to reason and think things through. It was really, really phenomenal.   Confidence, Character, and Virtue But also we gained confidence in our ability to think things through, to stand on the few truths that we did come to, to know what we believed and why we believed it and have thought through it clearly, and why that mattered and how we could live that out. And I also came to see that this whole process, as I eventually got a master’s degree and studied the history of education and all the way back to the history of Western civilization from the beginning, the development of character and virtue has always been the primary goal of education. Great philosophers have always said what makes us different from all the other creatures on earth is our ability to use our conscience, the fact that we’re conscious, and our common sense and our reason to elevate ourselves above our primal instincts and to discipline ourselves to live in line with what is good and what is true and what is beautiful. To be on the hunt for those things and to align our lives with those things. That’s always been the primary goal of education, not income earning. That was trade work. And you could go be trained and you could apprentice and all these things to be able to earn a living. But education was not about earning a living. It was about the development of the human being to be supremely human. And the supremely human person is the most virtuous person. You can see this thread all through the great thinkers and leaders throughout history, and I was seeing that and learning that. It was incredible.   Commonplace Books and Journaling We also learned from writings by, for example, John Adams to his son John Quincy, and Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, and these other great founders, and even before, with Marcus Aurelius and others, that you also need to write, and you need to write for yourself. You need to copy down what the greats have said. You need to pick it apart. You need to think it through. And they used to call these commonplace books, and it would have extensive notes from the things that they were learning and then their thoughts about those things. And so we were encouraged to journal, to keep commonplace books, to even write in our books, which I came to do. And I gained a lot of skills for tracking a lot of things in my book and really good bookmarking skills that have been a huge help for me. Now I can go back to the questions that I’ve asked and the quotes that were my favorite and the arguments that I’ve had with authors as I’ve read, and I can go back to those things and review the books that I’ve read and rediscuss them. And it’s been a huge help in my mothering and just in general with being a mentor and all of that. And so journaling as a way, because our thoughts run so fast that when we journal, we have to slow down and we have to take all of these fragmented ideas and make cohesive sentences and paragraphs out of them, and that fine tunes our thinking. It helps us to be better, clearer thinkers, again honing our logical thinking skills, our reasoning skills. Also connecting where our emotions are being sculpted, they’re being created by the things that we’re thinking. Our emotions are then in turn affecting our thoughts, and the interplay of thoughts and emotions and which ones are true and which ones are false, all of that is so, so helpful.   Writing, Feedback, and Growth We also wrote papers. We would have writing seminars, I guess you’d call it, because what was happening in this school was that it wasn’t a teacher student dynamic. I wasn’t just sitting there absorbing information and regurgitating it to a professor and saying the things that I thought they wanted to hear and that would please them or that would get me a high grade. I really was there to become the best me. I was there for me. And by virtue of the fact that I became a better me, I was a better wife, I was a better friend, I was a better sister, I was a better mom, right? Because I’m becoming a better me. The structure, these educational principles that were being utilized in this school were so incredibly beautiful and helpful for my personal development. That’s why this was the educational model in the West for two thousand years. Up until about a hundred years ago, we lost it. It’s because it’s the development of the human being to help us be fully human and to help us be virtuous. And so I’m there with a team of students. We are learning together. And the mentor is on this journey with us. They’re guiding us. They’re helping us. They’re showing us the path forward. They’re helping us course correct and stay on the path, but they’re learning right alongside us. One of the first things I learned as a mentor was that when I got into a group of individuals who were ready to learn, were ready to grow, because that’s really what this is. It’s all about personal growth. Because so what if you read it? So what if you pass a test on it if it doesn’t become part of your character and if you don’t become a better person because of it? It’s not helpful. The only reason those things are helpful is if we’re trying to build a career, and this education was not about that. Ironically, the more virtuous you became and the more your character was developed, the better you would be as an owner or an employee. That was secondary. The development of you was the primary focus.   The Value of Revision and Oral Exams And so we’re a team now. We’re discussing every week. We’re diving deep into these readings. We are learning from the best of the best, and it’s elevating us in every way. And then we have these writing seminars. And because we’re a team of learners, we also give feedback on each other’s writing. Those seminars could be painful. We had to read part of our writing aloud to the entire class, and they all gave feedback. They all told me what they thought about my paper, and it often meant kind of picking it apart. I remember one, I can’t remember what it was even about, but it was kind of like to my sister who was giving me grief about stuff, indirectly. And after I read the first page, the room was really quiet, and then one of the other students said, Audrey, I feel like you’re yelling at me. And it was really important feedback. I remember another discussion where my husband was in a class with me and he started going off about a bunch of stuff about, I think it was about Alexander Hamilton or maybe it was John Adams, and the mentor just was like, what are you talking about? Finally she was like, you better go home and get your facts straight because you don’t know what you’re talking about. And so again, course correcting, helping us to develop our character, to become better thinkers. And these writing seminars were difficult but so enlightening and really helped us to become better at expressing our ideas, which so much of life, so much of happiness, so much of relationships is about. Good communication, being empathic listeners, being good at diplomacy and sharing our thoughts and ideas. Then what was really cool is that we would have different assignments and we would hand things in and we would get feedback, right, but not a grade. Because instead of it being like, well, you tried for a minute and you had a deadline and now this label lives on as a mark for or against you, it was like, no. Do it until it’s great. So our assignments, we would redo and redo and redo until they were quality. And you can just imagine how much you would learn having to do things that way. At the end of the class, we would have oral exams. And in today’s culture, I’m always like, why in the world aren’t we doing more oral exams? We’ve got this AI issue. We’ve got all the cheating in our schools. You can’t cheat on an oral exam. You know it or you don’t. And I know it takes a little more time, but it’s so worth it. And our oral exams were usually administered in front of the entire class. And so there would be a couple mentors, and sometimes we would test each other. And so we would bring quality questions from the semester’s long learning or the course learning or whatever it was, and we would question each other, and we would learn so much in those oral exams from each other and from ourselves as we had to express what this had meant to us and how we had grown from what we had learned.   How This Education Changed My Life So this classroom became a real place of incredible growth and personal development, and I forged relationships that have become lifelong because we were so changed by the experience that we were having. These beautiful educational principles had a profound impact on me and on my life. They have completely changed the trajectory of everything that I’ve done since. It has changed the way I manage my relationship with myself, my relationship with God, and all my other relationships. It helped me gain a lot of self discovery that sent me on a new trajectory and introduced me to things that have become my life’s work, that have been so transformational for me.   The Euclid Class I wanted to give you a quick example of one of the things that happened to me in this process, and then I’ll talk to you a little bit before we finish up about why this matters so much for you and I and for our culture. So somewhere around this time, a couple years in, I was given the opportunity to take a Euclid class. Now if you don’t know who Euclid is, he was the great geometer. So his work was written, I didn’t look it up, I don’t know, two or three hundred AD, something like that. He wrote the definitive book on geometry. When I heard we were going to take this geometry class, I thought back on my high school years. So when I was in middle school, I was given a test and I scored well, and that meant that I had to take Algebra One in eighth grade. So I took Algebra One in eighth grade. I did fine. And it also meant that I had to take honors geometry my freshman year of high school, and I totally bombed. And of course, even though they’re both math, geometry and algebra are very different. And obviously I think a little more algebraically than I do geometry wise. And so, I mean, I was on the cheerleading squad, and I did so poorly in my class I couldn’t cheer. It was very disheartening. It was very embarrassing. It was a big deal at the time. And so I was demoted. I had to go back to regular geometry. I had to wait a whole cycle to get my grades back up to cheer again. It was really terrible. And I did okay in the regular geometry class. And so as you can imagine, all my life and into adulthood, far into adulthood, I carried this mindset of, I’m terrible at math. I don’t ever want to do that again. I did manage to get my way through Algebra Two, but then I just didn’t take math again if I didn’t have to. So I called up this teacher of this Euclid class and I was like, it sounds intriguing. I know that I love these original writings, but let me tell you my story and my history, and I don’t think I can do it. And he was like, no, no, no, no. I promise you, we will stay with you until you get it. And you’ll learn proof by proof how to think more logically and why this has been a staple in Western education. And in fact, I later learned that pretty much all the greats did study Euclid. It did help them to think more logically and to understand how evidence is built on evidence and how proofs work. But especially Abraham Lincoln, it was a core element of his education to study Euclid. And of course I did it. I got through Book One. I have somewhere in this house, in a box somewhere, my notebook from Euclid where I worked out the proofs. And it was hard, and I did the work, and my confidence was so high when I was done. When I got my first proof, it was a huge moment for me, and I realized I can do this. I can think more logically. I can figure these things out.   The History of Liberal Education I went on to get a master’s degree and to study the history of Western education especially, and read the great writings from these individuals that talked about what education should be and should look like. Like I said, it was clear that character development, what is it for, is its purpose. And in terms of American education, of course the Bible was at the heart. It was the core book that every child went through school with, and there’s some other fundamental reasons for that, which I’m actually going to talk about at the training that we do. And they were to be guided by the truths and the principles that were in the Bible in all their lives. Because up until the turn of the twentieth century, the goal of education was still the development of character and virtue. And all through the eighteen hundreds, all the major universities in America had the same curriculum. In fact, I’ve got a book over here that actually outlines what the curriculum list for all four years for I think it’s got Harvard and Yale and a couple others on there, and it’s virtually the same. And there was this common canon. Up until nineteen hundred, Americans had all these shared ideas. They had all read the Bible. They had all studied Shakespeare. They had all read some of these core classics. Men that went on, it was predominantly men, some women, but predominantly men, that went on to these high universities and into leadership positions had the same ideas about governmental principles and economic principles, and it was kind of the glue that held the country together. But then at Harvard, Charles Eliot became the president, and he decided that the students weren’t satisfied with their education and he wanted to improve it and make them happy, and so he instituted an elective system that was in full swing by 1899. The other universities, especially the Ivy League, pushed back against him hardcore, and they told him not to do it, and he just did it anyway. So once that was in play, then eventually the other colleges went along, and so we lost this liberal education, and with it we lost the tradition and what was at the heart of it. And that was that our education is about our personal development, and only very secondarily is it about anything else.   From Personal Development to Socialization As socialization. And of course, having been homeschooled on and off, I can tell you how many people came to me and were like, well, what are you going to do about their socialization? Because thanks to Dewey and others in the forties, socialization came to be synonymous with modern education, that children need to be socialized. And that was just never the goal. So he puts this elective system into place. The other colleges adopt it. Pretty soon you don’t have the core canon of readings. They’re not in these original works anymore. We lose it, lose it, lose it. And so by the thirties and forties at the University of Chicago, you’ve got Robert Hutchins who becomes this young university president. He brings over Mortimer Adler. They realize, and Robert Hutchins, I took a lot of quotes from him, Mortimer Adler, Mark Van Doren, and there were other people in other places, in other countries as well, that were mourning the loss of the liberal education. And that’s what it was called. The education I was receiving at this college, which unfortunately did not last many years, was traditionally called liberal arts education or classical education or the classical liberal arts. It was the education to be free. It is the root word of liberty, library, of libro in Spanish, which means book. And so when I tell people I have a liberal education or liberal arts degree, they really do think it has something to do with the arts because we’re so far from that. In fact, the great economist, in his book, he talks about how in the preface to his book, he’s like, I don’t understand why Americans let the word liberal be hijacked by people on the left because that’s a very rich word and it’s about their heritage. Now they have this political party called liberal, and it kind of in some circles has a bad connotation. And liberal does not mean free for all, everybody gets free stuff. It means freedom through discipline, through reasoning. Mortimer Adler said that we free our minds by disciplining them. And that’s really what goes on when you get this kind of education.   The Loss of Truth Seeking And so anyway, lots of individuals in different countries were mourning the loss of this liberal education, especially in America. And The Road to Serfdom, that’s what it is, that’s the book of the economist whose name I can’t remember right now. And part of that road to serfdom is the loss of this liberal education. In fact, I’ve got a couple quotes. Robert Hutchins said this, and this is all happening in the forties, and we’ll talk a little bit more about this in the training, but this is all the rich context and backstory that I just don’t have time to get into in an hour and a half with you in the training. Robert Hutchins said, we have come to the point where the pursuit of truth for its own sake is actually regarded as dangerous. This has to do with, eventually we went into modernism and postmodernism and our postmodern age where we’re being told that it’s your truth, my truth, and there isn’t any absolute truth. And of course there is, which we’re going to talk about at the training as well. Mark Van Doren said, a university can and should study first principles. It can concern itself with the permanent truth about man as man. And Robert Hutchins said about, well, just to give you a little background, around this time Dewey is changing the educational system. All of these things are coming into play. It’s turning into a socialization experiment, and Robert Hutchins and Mortimer Adler and these other people are pushing back, pushing back, pushing back. And Robert Hutchins eventually said, my mistake was that I thought I was a successful evangelist for the liberal arts education, when actually I was a stopper in the bathtub. And so liberal arts lost, socialization won, and we have the modern education that we have. And most of us that are alive today just don’t know the difference because it’s been a hundred years now, a hundred and twenty five years since this liberal education was squeezed out.   Why This Matters for Us Now I could tell you a lot more stories and give you a lot more examples, but I think you get the gist. And so the reason, if you’ve ever heard of the Great Books of the Western World or heard of the Harvard Classics, the reason that we have those collections of classics is because they were born out of this loss of the liberal arts because they weren’t in the schools anymore. This was Charles Eliot saying, okay, well we have the elective system now, and we kind of squeezed out a lot of the classics, but what we’ll do is we’ll put them in a set, we’ll call it the Harvard Classics, we’ll create this book set. And so it was in libraries, it was sold. Hutchins and Adler and others put together the Great Books of the Western World, which was printed by Encyclopedia Britannica and peddled door to door in the fifties and the sixties. They started up Great Books classes because they were just trying to do everything they could to hang on to this education. Now the reason all of this matters, I’m sure you’ve drawn some of your own conclusions about why I am talking about this in depth and why these rich educational principles matter so much, it’s because you and I were robbed of the education that would have taught us better to think logically, to reason, to identify the good, the true, and the beautiful. And our culture would be more grounded on what’s true and good and beautiful.   What This School Still Missed But there’s two things that this school didn’t do well. I have a very superficial understanding of what goes on at most of the liberal arts colleges, the only place you can get this education anymore really. University of Dallas has a pretty good program there. There are a dozen, two dozen of these liberal arts colleges scattered around the country, and they do use these educational principles to a large degree still. They are steeped in classics. They have added more modern science and things like that, which is relevant, which is fine. They’re insanely expensive. There are a few that are a little more affordable, but Hillsdale is one of the cheapest. It’s around thirty five thousand a year tuition. It’s the cheapest I’ve been able to find. It’s the one I’m most acquainted with. I’ve visited there on a couple occasions and met the president and toured the classes and attended classes there and done some of their online classes. And so I know the most about them. They’re one of the best. They go all the way up to eighty, ninety, a hundred thousand a year just for tuition, not for living as well. So this is still available in a few places. It’s insanely expensive. I think that these schools do one of the aspects my little college didn’t do well, but I have not seen them do the other.   The Missing Scholar Skills And so as we wind down here, let me just give you a little more context and a better understanding of some of the things we’re going to talk about in the training. The first thing that my college didn’t do great, and I don’t know how well these modern universities do it, is when I was about a year into my studies, I went to a little conference. I mean it was tiny because he was visiting little college, and the president of the college was there talking. And he was an amazing guy. He kept calling them scholar skills or study skills, and he kept saying, you’re only going to be able to get this incredible education if you have the scholar skills. And although they had really great Socratic discussion, really great writing seminar, and they told us to keep a commonplace journal, I wasn’t sure what he was talking about. And so I raised my hand and I was like, where are these wonderful scholar skills? How can I get them? I’m ready to go. I want to be the best student I can be. And all he said was, what are you currently studying? I told him I was studying worldviews. And he said, okay, well just keep going. In other words, they had not made a plan for it. They didn’t know. They hadn’t ever put them in one place. Maybe some of them had some of the skills. So the first kind of entry point for me in learning how to even administer this type of education, and even more in depth, how to get it for myself and really get robust lifelong learning skills, was that I was like, okay, well I’m going to have to figure it out. So I went and studied several books and did a bunch of practice over time to gain good study skills. Like I was talking about, the bookmarking skills, the question asking skills, getting better at leading discussion, and also just how to do interdisciplinary connections and all of that kind of stuff. And in the end, I figured out a lot of things that were super helpful. I ended up building a course for this college, and then I was able to travel and teach this course to a lot of their students around the country. It was really fun. It was really rewarding to teach people how to learn. And luckily I’ve been able to carry that into my programs and offerings. And so these educational principles that I was taught at this school, plus other things that I’ve learned in addition, have made their way in there to really give our students the best experience possible.   The Missing Natural Law Framework The other thing that they didn’t do well, well, maybe two things. One other thing that they didn’t do well was sometimes it was just too much. I’m all for let’s read some Plato, but you cannot give adults the same education that you give college students. They don’t have the time. And so what they could have done better is what I’ve tried to do in my programs, and that is highly vet great content so that just reading one small section of a page or two of Plato, accompanied by a little bit of Seven Habits, layered with a really great youth novel or whatever the case might be, so that you can see continuity of the ideas and you can see them in multiple places, then you go dig into scripture and you make these interdisciplinary connections, and it helps you to better identify truth. Which leads into the other thing that they didn’t do well, and that was that even though we talked a lot about truth and being truth seekers, I was introduced to the natural law framework through, and I’ve said this before, the first thing I read was that John Locke reading. And that was the first time I ever, ever heard the term. Then I was turned onto a couple other authors that talked about the natural law. But really that framework was never delineated. It was never talked about. I was never taught what the natural law really is, how it really works, what first principles are, what principles are, what applications are, how they all fit together, how to find them. And I never could find a mentor that could walk me through all of that. And even though it’s all throughout the great books and many, many different people talk about it in different ways, I was really left on my own for many years to niche in on that natural law framework, to build out my own strategies and frameworks and checklists and practices and tools for uncovering all the layers of it and figuring out how to figure it out and how to have it change my life and the lives of the people that I taught it to. And so Hillsdale doesn’t do it that way. And I don’t know if any of these other liberal arts colleges do that. And so that was really kind of unfortunate, but it became my life’s work. It became the thing that I’ve been passionate about for twenty years. And the more I learned about it, the better person I became, the more beautiful the world is, the more I love God, and the more I’m able to help others to identify and live according to truth.   We Were Robbed of These Tools So the tragedy in all of this, of course, is that you and I were robbed of a beautiful educational experience that would have helped us to be more logical in our thinking, better communicators, better at our relationships. It would have helped us to understand truth better and to be more virtuous. We also don’t have a place where we can go and learn about what truth really is and the framework of the natural law and why that matters so much. What I found in my little college was that the natural law, they didn’t understand, I think maybe, just how vital that was. That natural law framework made its way into our Constitution. It was prevalent in the colleges prior to the nineteen hundreds. And so, and the natural law is talked about in our founding documents, so we know that it was talked about. We know that it was the lens through which people saw the world in the West up until a hundred years ago, and we know that it was understood and these men were trying to understand first principles and trying to live according to principles. These men and women were trying to build solid foundations in their lives and in our nation with the natural law framework, and using these great works and these educational principles to elevate themselves. And so it’s just a tragedy that you and I find ourselves in a world, in a culture, without these irreplaceable tools. The inability to really understand what truth is, to identify first principles and principles for ourselves, and know how to live them, to know how to be self educating and how to sculpt and develop our reason and communication skills, we are at a huge disadvantage. We have been robbed of those things, and it is so vital that we restore them.   Why Moms Matter Most And this is why the answer in our culture is not, like I said at the beginning, leaders matter. It’s not that leadership doesn’t matter. It matters. But the better we understand truth and principles, the better we can choose the leaders that will also choose that for us. But the real answer is for moms to lift themselves, which will lift their family, and they will lift the culture if we own it for ourselves. If we get serious about learning how to place our lives and our families on a solid foundation of true principles, everything else will be better, and our culture will have a shift because we are raising the next generation. So if we raise them with better principles, our world will be a better place. And this is exactly what I’m passionate about restoring. This is exactly what I care the very most about. Everything that I have done and everything that I do and everything that I will do is about lifting you so you can lift your family, and so we can all together lift our culture.   Closing Invitation And we’re going to go into all of these ideas in more depth in this training, and I’m going to give you some frameworks and tools that are going to really help you to engage and let the truth make you free, which is what we all want. To know how to develop individually, to find balance between our own needs and those of our families, to solve our significant problems, to begin to reach our potential, to become all that we can become while still building the most principled, beautiful family culture we can possibly build. We’re going to talk about that at the training. The link is in the description, and I’ll see you there.  

How to Stop Feeling Powerless & Become the Expert in Your Own Life Join Audrey’s free training to learn how to build a more principled home and become more intentional in your leadership as a mother.  Register here 👉 https://go.themissiondrivenmom.com/webinar-registration   The Story Behind the Mission Driven Mom (And where we're going next)  In this episode, Audrey Rindlisbacher shares the story behind The Mission Driven Mom and the journey that brought it to where it is today. What started as a small class for mothers eventually grew into a movement focused on helping women lead their homes with truth, principles, and purpose. But the path was not simple.  Audrey opens up about the early success of the program, the challenges that nearly shut it down, and the difficult decisions that led to rebuilding it in a stronger and more intentional way. She also shares the vision guiding the future of Mission Driven Mom and why she believes mothers have a powerful role to play in strengthening families and rebuilding culture. In this episode you will hear: how the Mission Driven Mom program originally started the struggles and lessons that reshaped the organization why the program paused and later relaunched the long term vision for Mission Driven Mom why empowering mothers is key to strengthening families and communities If you want to understand the mission behind this work and where it is headed next, this episode gives you a deeper look behind the scenes.     AI Generated Transcript Introduction and Why Things Are Changing Welcome back to the podcast. I’m Audrey Rindlisbacher, the author of The Mission Driven Life and the founder of The Mission Driven Mom. I’m super excited for you to be here with me today, and it’s going to look a little bit different because I want to share something with you that’s been going on behind the scenes with The Mission Driven Mom. I want to kind of pull back the curtain and show you a little bit of the backstory because we’ve made some new commitments. We decided to really up our game in 2026. You’ve probably noticed that on the podcast, on socials, in our emails, and this is all part of this new effort that we’re making. We have this new vision for the coming months and the coming years, and why all of that is important to me and to our team, but also very important to you and important to your families and communities and our culture. And so I’m going to tell you all of how we got to where we are and where we go from here. How Mission Driven Mom Began Now, some of you have been with us for years now. Maybe you’ve been here almost from the beginning. And when we launched, I have got to say it was really just kind of a glorified hobby for me. I’ve told the story many places of going to a moms’ class and recognizing the pain in the women around me and understanding for the first time that other women needed the tools that I had discovered that had really revolutionized my home and my life and made such a huge difference for me. And so I determined to make that available, and I didn’t have any idea how it was going to go. I had taught classes in the past, and I just came up with a price that was quite a bit more than I had charged before and seemed fair, but just was an arbitrary price, and threw it out into the world, and it stuck. And to be honest, and I say this very humbly, it really was far more successful than I ever anticipated it being. And it went a lot further than I expected it was going to go. And of course, we launched it. Level One took off, and I knew we needed to have an event. I really wanted to celebrate the women and have them walk across the stage and have a deadline and a solid goal for when they were going to be finished. But I also wanted us to get together and see each other in person. And so we held our first celebration, and it was just a huge success. We filled the room. It was so much fun and so full of joy and had this graduation ceremony, and some of our students spoke, and it was so rewarding and enriching. And then from there it took off. Growth, Expansion, and Inexperience The women that had finished needed a Level Two, and they needed a Level Three because I had a conception of how this whole thing would look, but I hadn’t built anything but Level One when we started. And then the moms wanted their teens to have this experience. They have also asked for a program for their husbands, which we’ve never developed yet. And as time went on, we were building content like crazy, and we were trying to continue to service the students and build content at the same time for the events. And then we had women coming up, and so I built Level Three, and then they were able to graduate, and we launched a leadership team. And Level Three actually wasn’t all the way finished. It was just a pilot. And around that time, it got past my pain point. And I think maybe I’ve said this before, but I did not go into this with any business experience. I did not anticipate it ever getting this big. And we had too many people. We were running through too much money, and we were charging way too little. And that was just because of inexperience. And it was because I hadn’t done my market research, and I didn’t know what I didn’t know. And I needed to learn from my own experience really how to do it differently. Pulling Back and Rebuilding And so we brought everything down to a really small group and then eventually let everyone go. And we went quiet for a while. And there was a time where I just thought, I’m going to move this program over to another platform so I can keep my promise and make sure that women have it for life, and I’m going to write the books that I feel like I need to write. Maybe I’ll finish and make Level Three formal. Maybe I won’t. I don’t know. And a year and a half of time went by. I wasn’t podcasting. I really wasn’t doing anything. I was just fine tuning the program, moving it onto a new platform, making sure that everything was all cleaned up, and just trying to get rid of any unnecessary expenses. I had done a lot of studying business in the meantime and I had learned a lot, but I just didn’t know if I wanted to go there again. It ended in a pretty painful way. I felt badly about how much of our own personal reserves, and not just the time, but lots of money, had gone into the business trying to keep it alive. We’d lost a lot of money, and I just wasn’t sure what to do with it. It just sat in the back of my mind. Why We Came Back And really, it’s pretty much my husband who is the reason why we’re back here where we are. I don’t know if I would have had the courage, the gumption, the support that I needed to try it again if he hadn’t come to me last year and just said, we have to champion this. It blesses people’s lives. It’s got to be done. And I said, I’m not going to talk about it unless we put the business principles in place that we learned last time, we quickly learn as many more as we possibly can, and really build this business on principle. And we do our market research so that we know really how to run it properly, how to price it properly, how to market it properly, all the pieces. And we didn’t have all the answers, and I don’t need to have all the answers, but we definitely decided we were going to go for it. And that’s largely thanks to my husband. The Turning Point We did that. We had some reserves because the teen program kept selling, and every once in a while women would come and buy the moms program. And we have schools that do the teen program and whatnot. And we were going along. We had one employee. We had Anne working with us. She’s incredible, and she was organizing everything in the background and just helping us with things. And then we bought a program, and one thing led to another. We invited some people back. That miraculously happened. And we got to this point in the fall where we needed to invest again. We had run through the revenue that had been sitting there for the last couple years, and we needed to put money in again. And I didn’t realize that when I came back, I’d drawn a line in the sand. And when we got to that moment, I realized, oh, I’ve drawn a line in the sand. I do not want to take those kind of risks again. I don’t want to feel guilty about that again. My husband was like, what’s going on? I thought we were all in. I thought we were just doing this. And I was like, yeah, but And he’s like, but what? And I was like, I don’t know. And so I had to really go deep inside. Three Weeks of Prayer, Reflection, and Clarity I set everything aside, and for three weeks I did almost nothing else besides pray, ponder, research, study, think, and journal. And the overriding question was, why? Why would I do this again? I can see the benefit that it is to women, but can’t I just throw it into a platform and charge a little bit of money and just let women buy it that want it? Can I just I don’t care about the money. It would be fun to watch a business grow, but not for business’ sake. Why would we do this? Why would I do this again? I mean, in a few months we’re empty nesters, and we can pretty much do whatever we want and have all kinds of free time. And so why would I tie myself down? Why would I put myself to work? Why would I give myself a mission? And why would I risk my own personal money that I could spend on other things to do that? Why would we do this? And it just needed to be bigger. Not bigger than the moms that we want to bless, but I knew by this point that unless there’s a strong marketing engine behind something, it will never go anywhere. It seems hypothetically like a good idea to throw something onto a cheap platform and just quote, make it available. But I have learned that the only things that make it to the most people are the things that are the best marketed. That’s really the bottom line, is that you have to have a good marketing engine behind anything that you do, whether it’s a for profit or a nonprofit. No matter what you’re doing, your organization, you have to get the word out if you want people to be influenced by it. And so that means that we have to be competitive in our pricing. That means we need good amounts of revenue so that we can crank it back into marketing so that we can get the word out. So I knew all of that, and I knew that I couldn’t go back into this half heartedly. I couldn’t go back in hoping I wouldn’t have to put money in, hoping I wasn’t going to have to put time in, hoping I wasn’t going to have to build systems and train people and actually really build a robust business for real. And so I needed a big enough why. What Mothers Are Facing And I want to read to you some of the sentences and paragraphs and concepts that I wrote about during that three weeks, because by the time this was done, by the time I got to the end of that three weeks, I knew that this was my call. I knew that other women who had said yes to that call again last year, and even more coming into this year, we were here for a reason. We have important things to do. And even though every individual matters, and even though we want every single mom to have it, and we want every single mom and her family to be impacted by principles and have their life changed, it’s even bigger than that. It’s bigger than me. It’s bigger than our team. It’s bigger than you. It’s bigger than all of us. So I’m going to read to you some of the thoughts. This is very raw, uncut, just me journaling, talking to you about you, about the women and moms that would be influenced by the work that we’re doing and why. Why I would give my life to this. Why this would be where I put my energy. Moms see every day the negative effects on their children of the lack of virtue in our culture. Often it worries or scares them, and they don’t know what to do about it besides training their children differently. But even that is difficult because it goes against the culture. So this is what I was writing. So here’s more. I’m going to read a couple pages to you. So moms feel stuck and scared and overwhelmed as mothers, but also personally unfulfilled because they know motherhood is their first calling, but not their only one. Many don’t have enough self awareness and self knowledge to know how to harness their gifts effectively for their own enrichment and to then use those gifts in the service of others. They don’t feel seen. Sometimes they feel that they and their own interests and desires don’t matter. They’re always coming second or third or fourth because they want to be great moms, but they don’t know how to do it differently and it’s just getting old. But they’re also women of integrity who begin to feel miserable as they put their family first and can’t find balance, and they long to do more and be more, but they believe that this will leave their family behind and make them a bad mom. So a lot of what I was writing about was just what is the situation that moms find themselves in. And I was that right there, and I understand it perfectly, and I empathize with all of those pain points and more. A Bigger Mission And then I went on, and this is again just all different thoughts thrown down on paper. Our culture is suffering so much. We’ve moved away from the education that would have trained us to live according to true principles and pursue truth and virtue. And that’s why we need an army of moms that can train up a new culture. We need moms who get their crap together and start making a difference. And again, this is me a little raw, unplugged. I was upset about the culture, upset at where we find ourselves. So I wrote, and I don’t care if they think they can’t. If moms think they can’t do this, and I don’t care if they don’t want to, or they don’t know how. They’re needed. Their education is insufficient to find the balance, thrive as women and mothers, and make this cultural shift no matter how much modern education they got, because they don’t know how to live by principles, just like I didn’t. And if they don’t have some balance and resources, they don’t know what needs fixing and how to fix it, that’s an educational problem. And because they don’t know how, they console themselves that all that matters is their kids. They tell themselves that they’re perfectly justified in playing small and not taking risks. They believe no one expects them to change the world or even their neighborhood, so they don’t. But if they don’t, who will? Because moms don’t need to do this so they can feel important or have purpose and deep meaning, although they will. It’s not even so their kids will see their example, although they will. It’s because the world is rejecting truth and we need champions of truth. And moms have more motivation than anyone else to make a change in our culture because they want a better world for their kids. We need a movement, something worth fighting for, sacrificing for, and giving our lives to. Providing a healthier culture for our grandchildren. A New Identity for Mothers So for any mom that is listening right now, here’s what I wrote. I want to take you to a new life where you have power and influence over yourself, your family, and your community. A life where you’re seen and needed and used and you’re making a difference and you know it, and your family is on the journey with you every step of the way, because when mothers are lifted, the culture is lifted. I want to give you two new identities. The first one is, as a mission driven mom, you work on yourself so you can show up differently for yourself and your family. You seek truth, identify it, and stabilize your life with it. You learn to balance your own personal growth with that of your family. You become intentional and begin leading your family to a more principled, centered, intentional, servant leadership focused life. You become powerful, confident, self accepting, and intentional. And then once you graduate from the MDM Academy, you can join our leadership team. And in this role, you see yourself as a member of a vast community of moms dedicated to lifting the culture and reinstating virtue and a love of country. You will surround yourself with women who know and speak truth with courage, women who see real problems in their communities and work together to apply principled solutions. You are one of many noble, courageous, virtuous women who elevate the people around you and invest in each other’s worthy projects and goals. You and other moms like you become the hope for our future. What We Are Building Now Now, in order to accomplish this movement, we’re doing a whole bunch of things. We’ve hired experts and built a powerhouse team of incredible women who know how to do their role with absolute excellence. We’ve used best business practices to get us supremely organized. We’ve put the time into market research to bring you the best product at a price that is still below market value, but where compensation is sustainable for us to stick around and serve you for a very long time. We’ve refined your journey in the Academy and beyond. We’ve reintroduced the MDM Celebration, and it’s coming again this fall. The theme is Mothers of Creation, and I hope to see you there. We’re finalizing Level Three so that it will be available permanently. We’ve outlined the Clapham Leadership Team and its role in our communities. We have women finishing up mission projects who will graduate this fall. And I’ll be releasing a new book this summer and another one coming next year. There’s so much going on and so much to look forward to. An Invitation to Join the Movement Now, Henry David Thoreau said, for every thousand hacking at the leaves of evil, there is one hacking at the root. MDM is striking at the root. We’re taking first ourselves, and then our families, and then our communities, back to natural law, to truth, and to virtue, and providing principled solutions to difficult community issues, which will lead to lasting healthy solutions. Are you ready to do something that’s really going to matter? That will be one of the deepest sources of meaning, fulfillment, and joy in your life? That will have the greatest lasting impact? That will bring renewal and support to you and your family? That will build the most beautiful lifelong friendships and sense of community you’ve ever known? And fill your days with a sense of determination you’ve never had and lift you and your children and your community like nothing else can? If so, then please join me and other mission driven moms on this journey as we link arms to change the world, beginning right now with you. Because we can’t accomplish this alone. So please join us and share this with every other woman and mom who’s ready to put their personal lives in line with truth and become part of something bigger than themselves, something that has the power to make the world a better place. Because we can only do this together. This is a movement, and we are so glad that you are a part of it. Closing Invitation If you want to learn more and dig deeper into the things I’ve been sharing with you today and over the last few weeks, I would love to see you join me this week at my free training. I am going to walk you through why the culture has been declining and the simple and powerful steps you and your friends can take to build a solid foundation in your homes and then link arms with us to lift the culture. The link is in the description, and I will see you there.  

What if the transformation you want in your home does not start with better tactics, but with better thinking? In this episode, Audrey Rindlisbacher sits down with Amy Updike for an honest conversation about motherhood, anger, victimhood, healing, principles, and the kind of inner growth that changes everything. Amy shares how learning truth based principles helped her move from overwhelm and reactivity to greater peace, confidence, clarity, and self leadership. They talk about what it means to understand first principles, how to love people without becoming permissive, how to hold boundaries without losing connection, and why learning how to think has changed Amy’s family, leadership, relationships, and home life. If you have ever felt frustrated, emotionally reactive, discouraged in motherhood, or unsure how to move forward with confidence, this episode will give you language, hope, and a new way to think. In this episode, you will hear about: moving from victimhood to creator thinking how principles change family culture loving others without compromising truth boundaries, peace, and self leadership why personal transformation changes everything Subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen to podcasts for more conversations on motherhood, principles, faith, family culture, self leadership, and mission driven living. Resources How to Stop Feeling Powerless & Become the Expert in Your Own Life (register for the free class) The Anatomy of Peace: Resolving the Heart of Conflict https://a.co/d/02apueAm   AI GENERATED TRANSCRIPT Introduction Audrey Rindlisbacher: Welcome back to the Mission Driven Mom. I am Audrey Rindlisbacher, founder of the Mission Driven Mom and author of The Mission Driven Life. I have a special treat for you today. I am joined by my friend Amy Updyke, and we are going to talk about her journey over the last few years and the impact of the truths and principles that we teach and how they have had an impact in her life. Audrey Rindlisbacher: And so I am super excited for you to hear her story. We are going to start, Amy, with just telling us a little bit about yourself. Where were you born? Where did you grow up? What are some of your hobbies? You have a family. Just give us a snapshot of who Amy is. Amy Updike: I was actually born in Germany, of all places. Amy Updike: Oh, my dad was in the military. I am number six out of eight kids. I was mostly raised in Austin, Texas, though. And we just had a really big family, and I have got four sisters and three brothers. One of them passed away when I was really young. That is definitely a big part of my journey. Amy Updike: My youngest brother died when I was nine, and he was four. He drowned. Wow. And that has just been a big part of family and why it is important to [00:01:00] me and my belief systems. I loved growing up in Texas. I had a beautiful experience there and met my husband in Idaho. We have been married a long time. Amy Updike: We have got four kids. They range in age from 24 to 16 now. Nice. So I am toward the end of my parenting journey. I have learned a lot through the years. Amy Updike: Things are changing. It is a different phase now. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Life in Oregon and Family Background Amy Updike: So we are now in Oregon, and I lived in the suburbs growing up, but here we live on lots of forest land in the middle of nowhere. Amy Updike: So it is a different, wow, it is a different journey out here, and I have learned a lot living in the country and all the different challenges and fun things that go along with that. So we have raised our kids out in the middle of nowhere, in the forest in Oregon. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Wow. How close is your closest neighbor? Amy Updike: About a half mile. Amy Updike: Oh wow. So the nearest town is a little town, Banks, and it is a good 12 to 15 minute drive. But to get any real shopping, we have to go half an hour, so we drive a lot. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Oh man. Wow. And do you have quite a bit of property yourself? Is that part of it? Amy Updike: [00:02:00] We actually live on the property that my husband’s grandpa bought. Amy Updike: And so my kids are fourth generation on that property, and we are here taking care of his mom, and we are going to be here for quite a while. That is part of the family journey. Hobbies, Education, and Homeschooling Audrey Rindlisbacher: What are some things that you love to do? What are some of your personal hobbies? Amy Updike: I love to read. I have always loved to read. I love dancing. My husband and I ballroom dance. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Oh, awesome. I keep trying to drag him along to that. Amy Updike: And I have also been a part of a clogging group. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Oh, cool. Amy Updike: I created Dance in a Can. I also love to sing. I am part of a community choir in Oregon, and that is a big joy in my life. I am very big into homeschooling. I have started my own homeschooling group, and it has grown, and we are in our fourth year. That is a lot of fun. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: I spend a lot of time studying. Amy Updike: And I really believe in education. I got my two year degree when my husband and I were married, and then I stopped going to school so I could support him to get his degree. And I ended up going back to school, but it took me eight years to get the last two years of schooling to get my bachelor’s, and I am pretty proud of that. Amy Updike: I am proud [00:03:00] of the consistency that it took. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: To get that degree. So I had my bachelor’s degree. Yeah. Especially Audrey Rindlisbacher: When you have children. Yes. One hundred percent. Amy Updike: I started when my oldest was nine months, and I ended when my youngest was about a year old. So Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: It was quite the journey. Before Discovering Mission Driven Mom Audrey Rindlisbacher: Let us go back a few years and talk about where you were before you found the Mission Driven Mom and what life was like for you a few years ago. Audrey Rindlisbacher: It is fun Amy Updike: to think about Audrey Rindlisbacher: what you were working on, what you were struggling with, what you were looking for, and what drew you to this program. Amy Updike: At that stage of my life, I had a lot of little people, and I was really struggling with self doubt. I was struggling with anger and trying to keep my cool. Every morning I would wake up and make a commitment to myself that I would not yell at the kids. And every morning I would wake up and make a commitment to myself to keep my cool and to be calm and to not have all these negative feelings. Amy Updike: And I read a lot of books. I tried a lot of self help books, and they helped to some degree or another, but the intellectual knowledge did not really transfer into my daily attitude, and I [00:04:00] would do pretty well for the first couple hours, and then something would happen and I would just lose it. Amy Updike: And it was a bad joke that when we went to school or anything, it was just normal for Mom to lose it and swear and say things that I am not proud of. Amy Updike: And you just get to the point where you are just not proud of who you are, and you are scared of what you are doing to your kids. Amy Updike: And I had a lot of frustration and anger toward my in laws, actually, because we were living in the same house with them, which I love. It is a blessing, but it also has its own challenges. And it was never really part of our plan. Our plan was to move up here, to have our own home. And it just was not happening. Amy Updike: We were still with them in their home, and I felt a lot of what I have come to now know is victimhood. I did a lot of blaming and shaming and comparing and criticizing and just wallowing in poor pitiful me. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: And that was really the stage I was at. I had started homeschooling, and I was loving it, but I was struggling with having them home all the time. Amy Updike: I joke. Yeah, sure. Part of homeschooling is having your kids home with you until you get used to that. People ask, what do [00:05:00] I do? I need to homeschool. What should I do first? And I say, make sure that your home life is in order. Make sure that you have got systems and that you have rules and that you have family culture and schedules. Amy Updike: Do not even worry about the curriculum. But I was battling all of that, trying to get that and myself in control. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Discovering the Academy Amy Updike: And so when I discovered the Mission Driven Mom Academy, it was one of those moments where my heart told me I needed it, and I did not really know why, and I could not really afford it. Amy Updike: And it was an introductory thing. I was thinking it was the very first year you did it. It was an introductory price. And even at that low price, it was still a sacrifice. And I am just so grateful I started it. It took me two years to complete all the content on my own. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Tell us about that journey through the Academy. What happened those first couple years? Amy Updike: I loved the content. I loved the videos because they were short, uh huh, and succinct, but powerful, action packed. And so actually I have a lot of memories of walking or running on the treadmill while watching your videos. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Oh. Amy Updike: And so many times it would interrupt my workout because I would have to stop and write things down. Oh, that is so good. Amy Updike: I have to write that down. So I had a [00:06:00] lot of fun working through those videos, but I think the impact of really, truly finding out who I was was so powerful for me. Learning my strengths and getting to a point where I could love myself to the point of saying, these are my strengths, rather than saying, these are my weaknesses and always focusing on my weaknesses. Amy Updike: I was criticizing myself for my weaknesses. Yes. Always trying to fix my weaknesses instead of embracing my strengths. Yeah. And I have come to the point where I am comfortable talking about my strengths because I am also comfortable talking about my weaknesses. And it has been a really beautiful journey going through the content and finding out what my strengths are through the StrengthsFinder, finding out what my temperaments are, what my values are, what really matters to me, and what my story is. Amy Updike: The Cure for the Common Life story was really powerful. Going through all these impactful memories of my life and figuring out why they were meaningful and what that informed me about myself. So I got to the point where I knew who I was truly, and I knew who God was and that He loved me. Amy Updike: And that I loved Him and that I knew what He [00:07:00] wanted for me. And by the end of that, writing my mission statement was so powerful because I have this beautiful mission statement, which incorporates so many aspects of my life and so many things, and the book is a treasure to me. Amy Updike: My workbook is a treasure because I can open it up. And I just recently wanted to look for a job and to figure out what I would be good at. I looked through it and I said, this is what I have, and I know for sure what I am good at. I have seen it in my life. I have the kind of evidence of the test, but I also have the evidence and proof of my life. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. The Empowerment Dynamic and Becoming a Creator Amy Updike: And it has given me a lot of confidence. Also, I think the most impactful thing from this book, and I just want everyone to read it, is The Power of TED, The Empowerment Dynamic by David Emerald. It literally, and I am not exaggerating, has changed my life. I have read so many books on self help, trying to curb my anger, trying to curb my frustrations and change my behavior. Amy Updike: But none of them did it until I read that book and I started to recognize when I am being a victim. And that simply is it. When I know I am complaining, criticizing, shaming, or comparing myself to [00:08:00] others or competing, yeah, any of those times I can immediately go, you are being a victim. Amy Updike: And the moment I recognize that, I step back and say, okay, how can I be a creator? How can I get out of this drama triangle? How can I stop blaming everybody for persecuting me and start to change my actions, which is the only thing I can change? And that has helped with our finances. Amy Updike: It has helped with my friendships. It has helped with my leadership roles. It has helped with my children. It has helped with my relationship with my in laws. It has helped every aspect of my life. And it has also helped with how I love myself, because many times I blame and shame myself and have got to stop and say, wait, no. Amy Updike: Yeah. But that is not what this is about. So it has been really fun, this content. I have gone through it myself and then I went through Mission Driven Mom Level Two, learning about principles, which I have a lot to say about that. But I have also taught it. I have taught it to youth twice now. I am in my second time teaching it to youth, and it has been so joyful. Amy Updike: We just did the lesson on subhuman and superhuman, and I finally get it the third time through. I finally understand it. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: And I am able to make connections [00:09:00] to Covey’s Seven Habits and I am able to make connections to David Emerald’s drama triangle and other things that I have read to understand. Amy Updike: What that really means. And I even had an experience this week where I put myself in subhuman. I was just down in the dumps. I had to stop and really just coach myself through the verbiage of, no, we are not going to be there. We are not going to be a victim. We are not going to whine and moan and say, it is never going to change. Amy Updike: Yeah. We are going to look at it truthfully and just say, what can I do, and accept what I cannot change Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: and change what I can. And it really has changed not only me, but it has changed my whole family culture. And thankfully I got it at a point where I could have an influence on all of my kids. Amy Updike: One of my boys in particular struggles with a lot of the things I struggle with. Yeah. The anger and the shame and the victimhood. And it was really fun. One time he was in a class with me, and I was teaching this, and he came home and I said something I should not have said. And he said, Mom, you are being a victim. Amy Updike: Do not you love it when they throw it back at you? Audrey Rindlisbacher: Love when they call you out. Amy Updike: Thank you. Thank you for that reminder. You are [00:10:00] right. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: So that is really powerful. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Yeah. And that whole section, we do that self leadership four times, and that first section on self leadership, like learning about the types of victims in conjunction with the book and blame and shame like you keep talking about and how they all work together and all of that kind of stuff. Audrey Rindlisbacher: And then later learning to tell ourselves the truth. That is a nice cadence that makes a difference. So you feel like, I remember we were on the phone a little while ago. You said something about how you had tried therapy as well. Is that right? Therapy, Trauma, and the Application of Principles Amy Updike: I have been in therapy. Amy Updike: We were in marriage therapy for a little bit, and recently I was in therapy for some pretty traumatic family drama that happened in my nuclear family. Amy Updike: For me, the therapy was more of triage. Yeah. Getting me out of a hole at that moment. Yeah. And this is more of an everyday life thing, how to handle the everyday life things. Amy Updike: And then when the big things happen, you can get out of it faster and easier. I had a pretty traumatic experience a few years ago. [00:11:00] My mother was actually killed because of my father. He ran over her with his truck and he was arrested for it. Amy Updike: And there is a lot of evidence that it was intentional. That happened almost three years ago. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Wow. Wow. I am so sorry, Amy. Amy Updike: Yeah, it was pretty horrific. And I have a pretty special relationship with my parents. My dad was quite abusive, not to me so much, but very much to my mother and to my brothers and sisters to different degrees. And there is a lot of pain in memory of my dad. And so this happening just made it really bad. Yeah. Made the relationships really hard. And so when I got the call that my mom was in the hospital, I immediately flew down and I was with my mom and dad, and I was with my dad in the house. Amy Updike: And then I would go to the hospital, and it turns out she was so damaged that we had to take her off the machines. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: And my brothers and sisters flew in for the funeral, and I was there trying to navigate on the ground what was going on. And while I was there, I had some really [00:12:00] difficult but interesting experiences that showed me how much I have learned. Amy Updike: About loving myself and loving others and loving God. And I was able to be in that situation and see the principles of it, see how much, see the good in it, see the good in my dad, and be there for my mom, but also easily forgive my siblings for their struggles because some of them chose never to speak to him again. Amy Updike: And I completely understand, and they could not understand how I could speak to my dad. But these teachings and these skills that I have learned through the Mission Driven Mom equipped me to be able to have those tough conversations and helped me to separate myself from other people’s emotions and feelings and viewpoints to the point that I could understand them, but still hold true to what in my heart was right for me. And that has been a really powerful journey, being able to see other people’s choices in terms of principles. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: To be able to love them and still love myself and really not [00:13:00] judge. Amy Updike: I think there is a whole conversation that could happen about what judging really is, but Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: to not condemn them for their feelings and their actions, but to understand them and love them, really felt like I was given a gift, just an incredible gift. Amy Updike: To be able to handle that situation. Because when I got out of that situation and got home, I just collapsed and I felt the anger that my siblings felt. I felt the hurt and all of the emotions that they were feeling. But while I was there, I just felt peace and love and I was able to talk to the doctors and help with the things at home and all the things that needed to happen. Amy Updike: I was able to do them and be clear headed because of that kind of extra gift from God and the skills I was given. They helped me through it. Learning Principles and Building from Them Amy Updike: Principles are a second part of this journey that have completely changed the way I think. Amy Updike: I was part of a homeschool group that I loved, with dear people, but there were some things going on that I was slowly choosing maybe were not for me, that I wanted to go a different direction. Amy Updike: And I wanted some different styles of leadership and I wanted a different direction in education, just [00:14:00] curricula and ways to go about it. Amy Updike: And when I was pondering what that would look like and when I should do it and how I should do it and what the structure of the school would be and all those things, the Mission Driven Mom Celebration came up and I got an email that invited me to it, and they were going to talk about principles, and I just felt the strongest pull that I needed to be there. Amy Updike: I badly needed to be there. I did not know why, and we did not really have the finances for it, but somebody said if it is right, God will open a way. And so I just popped online and I found a ticket for a screaming deal. And I said, okay, this must be right. Wow. And so I planned and I told my husband I wanted to go, and he fully supported me, as he always does. Amy Updike: He is awesome. And I went all the way to Texas and sat with the most incredible women and learned about principles. And it was so new to me. People use the word principle incorrectly so many times. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: They use it as opinions. They use it as their own experiences. They use it as truth, but I do not think people really understand what a principle is. Amy Updike: And as I walked out of there, I had a lot of notes and a lot of [00:15:00] excitement and some understanding. And I started just diving right in and trying to apply what I had learned, trying to understand what principles are. I was so excited by the five questions. I was so excited by the idea that anything in my life, Amy Updike: I could figure out what the principle is and then figure out what my personal application is. So what I ended up doing is I ended up designing my school all around principles. The very first thing we did is we made a list of what our principles were, and I double checked that. I was not really good at that yet, but I was trying to double check that they were real, make sure they were backed up by scripture. Amy Updike: They were backed up by experience, that they really held true and they were general enough to apply in lots of different situations. So we came up with our list of principles and started there. Amy Updike: And it was a beautiful experience because I was so concerned about making a big change like that, which undoubtedly did hurt some people. Amy Updike: Some people had their feelings hurt because I made this choice and it shook up the structure of some things around. And I [00:16:00] hated that, but I also knew that I wanted to Amy Updike: I wanted to make sure that what I was building was not a reaction to something. I wanted to make sure that it was not a response, that I was not going against something, but instead going for something, which is why we started on principles. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: And it has been a really beautiful experience because everything has centered around those principles. Amy Updike: And even now, four years in, one of our leadership team always stops and says, what is the principle for that? When someone comes up and has a concern or they are frustrated about something or a kid does something wrong and we want to start another rule or whatever the situation is, we always ask, what is the principle? Amy Updike: And it allows us to go back to our core values. It allows us to go back to the reason we do things. And so many times we realize we do not need another rule for that. We just need to reinforce the principle. We need to reteach the principle, or we need to change the structure of things so that the culture is surrounding the principle better. Amy Updike: And it really has worked. It has been such a beautiful experience, having [00:17:00] all of the structure of the school, the rules and the policies and the classes and even what classes we teach and why we teach them and what age we teach them. Everything is around these principles that we defined in the beginning. Amy Updike: And while some people, I lost some friends over it and it really makes me very sad. They may never be as close to me as they were before. But it makes a huge difference that I know in my heart I was going toward principles and I was doing something that I was guided to do, that I wanted to do. Amy Updike: But also it was not a reaction to anything. It was building something that was important to me. Something else I wanted to say about that. Amy Updike: I knew in my heart that I had done something and acted in a way that was in line with my values and also was something that I felt like God approved of. I felt because we started with principles and because I did an introspection to know how I wanted to behave, how I wanted things to look, that I feel right in my heart. Amy Updike: I have a friend that always says, sometimes you are the villain in someone else’s story. And that gives me a lot of peace. Not to say my actions have always been perfect, but my intentions [00:18:00] have been right or good. My intentions were pure. I wanted good things. And sometimes that gives us a lot of peace, just to know that I acted according to my values and that I am right with God. Amy Updike: And then let the chips fall where they may and just hope that those relationships resolve themselves eventually. And in our day and time, that experience has given me peace in other situations that are harder, truly because in our relationships, in our families, I think most of us have someone or many people in our family who are making choices that we do not feel are right with God and we do not feel are right with principles. Amy Updike: But seeing it that way gives us so much peace. So another example is I have a child who has made choices that are not what I would have wanted for them. But I have been able to separate my grief at the hopes and wishes dashed and my beliefs and rules and what they [00:19:00] intend and want. And in Mission Driven Mom Level Two, we learn a lot about principles and we learn about first principles, which are hard to distinguish. Amy Updike: And it took me a long time to figure out. First Principles and Applications Amy Updike: In fact, I think I fully understood it when I taught it to youth after I had taken the class and then I taught it, and then I was like, I think I know what I am talking about. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Teaching really is a good way to learn, for sure. Amy Updike: But first principles are incredible because once you identify what it is, you can separate yourself from the applications. Amy Updike: I can look at this child and say, I know their heart is wanting this. I know their heart believes this. I know this is what they are going for. And I agree with that first principle, sometimes even that principle, but that application, it diverges. And those applications many times are not good for you, are not in line with God’s law, are not something that is proven to be healthy. Amy Updike: But I can still show compassion and love and understanding toward that child and other people in my life because I can understand where they are coming from. I can agree with them where I agree and then kindly disagree appropriately for the rest of it. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: And be okay that they are living in a different way than I am living. Amy Updike: Principles are just so powerful because we can [00:20:00] use them in every aspect of our lives. For example, you have taught so much about principles and health, for example. It is just an easier one to talk about. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: I may choose to never eat sugar again, or I may choose to have a Kit Kat bar every single night, or I may choose to only have non refined sugars, or whatever it is. Amy Updike: And that is an application. And I do not have to judge or be angry or be frustrated or condemn or get all up in arms because somebody is choosing it differently than me. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: I can understand we both are trying to be healthier. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: That we both agree that limiting sugar is a good thing. Amy Updike: That is way easier. It is a simple topic than some of the other ones we could talk about. But that has given me so much love for other people and it allows me to be kind and allows me not to get upset. Whereas before I understood these things, and like I mentioned earlier, I struggled so much with being angry. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: And this has allowed me not to be angry about it because I can pause and say, wait a second, am I being a victim? Am I in the wrong? I can pause and say, are they living this principle in a different way than I choose to live it? And whether I agree or not, I can still have compassion and love for them. Amy Updike: And that [00:21:00] has changed all my relationships in my life. Love Without Permissiveness Audrey Rindlisbacher: Wow. Wow. That is incredible. You were just making me think about how I feel like in the world, we are told that in order to really love, in order to really show empathy and compassion, we need to be permissive. And you are saying something very different than that, but on the surface, sometimes it can look similar. Audrey Rindlisbacher: And that is why when we can think in terms of the natural law framework and really have a handle on it, because what you are saying is that because you can build bridges with people on first principles upon which you agree, then you can honor the intention. Audrey Rindlisbacher: And you can see that in their own way, they are trying to be a principled person, but they are confused about maybe which principles follow because they do not have these thinking skills, or their applications are not what they ought to be or are wreaking havoc or whatever. Audrey Rindlisbacher: And so it gives you tools to parse all that out and to discern so much more clearly the difference between being permissive [00:22:00] and continuing to do actions of love for whoever it is, regardless of what choices they are making, without compromising what you know to be true, without compromising the principles you are striving to live and the values that you hold dear. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Because you can let go of their specific daily choices and it, I do not know, somehow. And I guess you and I just have this shared language so we can understand each other and it might be a little harder for the audience to understand until they get there, but it is so liberating to be able to say, I know that at any moment that you choose to step back into principles, your life can course correct. Audrey Rindlisbacher: And until you hit up against life enough times, then maybe you need to learn that way. And that is perfectly fine. I am still going to love you and be here for you, but I do not have to affirm that I love everything that you are doing. I do not have to approve of all of your choices. I can recognize that they might not be principled, but I can see, I can differentiate you from your choices. Audrey Rindlisbacher: And anyway, parsing all of that out, understanding it more clearly, seeing it [00:23:00] for what it is is so much easier. Amy Updike: You are right. It does on the surface sound like the phrase, you do you. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: It does. And as you were talking, I was pondering the difference. And I think the difference mostly is in the approach and in my heart. Amy Updike: The book Anatomy of Peace teaches about getting your heart in a heart of peace, not a heart of war. Amy Updike: And this allows me to be in a heart of peace, and I will give you an extension to this story. Just recently for the holidays, this child was home and opened up their heart to me about a significant change in their life that they were going to be making. Amy Updike: Something that maybe five years ago would have devastated me. Amy Updike: And do not get me wrong, I do not agree with it. I am saddened by it. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: But because he knew I loved him. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: Because he knew my heart was at peace toward him. And for clarification, this is a child who is older and out of the house. Amy Updike: Yeah. He is an adult. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: And making these choices. It is a different situation when they are in your home. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: But this conversation went really well, and it went well because I was able to talk in terms of my beliefs. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: [00:24:00] And my principles. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: And how much I loved him. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: And the things that would be acceptable and allowed in my home and things that would not be, and the conversation went so well because he was able to say, yes. I hear you. I respect you because I respected him too. I think that is the difference. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: Boundaries were not taken away. There were still things that I made very clear that I would not pay for nor support. Amy Updike: In public nor would I allow in my home. Amy Updike: And he understood that. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: But also it was a good conversation because he also understood that I was not taking away his choice. That I was understanding where he was coming from, that I was hearing him and respecting his experience and his reasonings. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: So it is tricky and it is tender when it is somebody that is Audrey Rindlisbacher: Oh yeah. Amy Updike: that close to you. But it is not a you do you thing. It is more of an open up your heart so you can share when the time is appropriate. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: When they are ready to listen. And that will never come if I just come down with [00:25:00] only my application rules, my home, my rules. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: Or this is where the line is. You cannot cross it. So these principles and this thinking, as you can see, have really changed the way I behave toward even those closest to me. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: That I do not feel like I have compromised on what is allowed in my home or what is acceptable or what I will do because it is boundaries. Amy Updike: Yeah. Yeah. What I will do. Audrey Rindlisbacher: You do not have to pretend to be someone else, or you do not have to relax your own values and your own standards, and you do not have to pretend like you approve, but yet the relationship stays strong and loving and close and clearly there is enough trust that he feels like he can talk to you and be open and honest with you. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Because why? Because he wants to stay in your life. He does not want to write you off because he knows he is loved and you have been able to build that between the two of you. So that is really incredible. Amy Updike: Yeah. I just hope it continues. I hope I can keep acting in a way that he feels loved. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Who Amy Is Now Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. So tell me where you are today in terms, especially, you have mentioned, you have thrown out some words, you have said some things, but give us a [00:26:00] picture of just some words or phrases or sentences that might describe, before you talked about someone who was angry, resentful, victim mindset, troubled, overwhelmed, frustrated. And who is Amy now? Amy Updike: I feel confident. I feel at peace. Sure, I still have rough days occasionally, but I feel self assured because I know I truly do know who I am and I know what my values are and I know what God wants from me and what His laws are. And I just love the phrase, we are practicing principles. Amy Updike: Because that is exactly what we are doing. Even a couple days ago, a situation happened where I was thrown right into victimhood. I was right into, oh, this is never going to change, and I am so frustrated. But I was able to get out of it really quickly. Yes. And even though sometimes those emotions still stay, I can keep self checking, going, nope. Amy Updike: What can I do today? I can go on a walk. What can I do today? I can take a breath and assure myself that it can be, it is going to be all right. Because I am not in control of everything, but I am in control of me. I am in control of how I feel. I am in control of, control is the [00:27:00] right word, but I can choose my thoughts. Amy Updike: I can choose to rephrase things. I choose to kind of feel Audrey Rindlisbacher: It does not Amy Updike: Yeah. Audrey Rindlisbacher: It does feel like you are in control because you are living intentionally and you are determining who you are going to be today. How are you going to show up today? Audrey Rindlisbacher: We talk about this in the Academy quite a bit, that we can choose to entertain certain thoughts and the thoughts that we entertain determine the emotions that we feel. And that is at least part of the equation that I hear you saying, is that you have retrained the way that you think through the lens of principles, but through other tools as well. Audrey Rindlisbacher: And now you are making, you are living much more intentionally from that tiny seed of thought choice all the way through to these hard conversations that you are having with your family. And that does make you feel more in control. Because you talked about before how you would wake up and make a commitment to yourself that you were not going to get angry and you were not going to do this or that. Audrey Rindlisbacher: And yet so often, several years ago, you would give in [00:28:00] to that anger because you did not have the tools, you did not have the principles, you did not have a better plan. You did not understand what was at the root of it. There is a really famous quote, I think it is Henry David Thoreau, that I love a lot but have been using a lot lately. Audrey Rindlisbacher: He says, for every thousand that are hacking at the branches of evil, or the leaves of evil, something like that, there is only one hacking at the root. And that is something that I really wanted the MDM Academy to give moms, was to get to the root. Why, these are all of the symptoms. This is the environment. This is what I am swimming in. But what is really at the heart of that? Audrey Rindlisbacher: And in all of those self leadership sections, those titles of those sections are increasing my personal power. Would you say that you feel more powerful now? That would be a term you would use for yourself? Amy Updike: Absolutely. Getting to the Root Amy Updike: And I love that idea of hitting at the roots because, like I mentioned before, I have spent so much time reading self help books and I have gone to therapy about different issues in my life, and they would help, Amy Updike: Covey talks about the [00:29:00] personality versus the character ethic. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: And I felt like I spent so much time just trying to do the things that would fix it. So many times trying to find that one skill that would change it. Amy Updike: And sure, those techniques do make a difference on the surface, but it does not change the root, the core problem. And in me, the core problem was a feeling of insecurity, a feeling of not being of value. It stems from some childhood trauma. It stems from just different beliefs about myself. But recognizing who I really am has changed it all. Amy Updike: And recognizing my power to have influence over my family, which sounds power hungry. It is not. But the creator mindset that I can create a home of peace and not just do it out of, okay, I am going to count to ten, which is a good skill. But is it not better when you stop and say, okay, why am I angry? Amy Updike: I am angry because I am embarrassed that this child is going out in public looking this way, and they do not have their shoes on. So rather than freaking out that they do not have their shoes on and screaming at them, I can stop and recognize this is about me. Amy Updike: This is [00:30:00] about Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yes. Amy Updike: me feeling embarrassed. Audrey Rindlisbacher: So often, almost all the time, there is something that you can do. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yes. Amy Updike: Just changing that dialogue in your head makes all the difference in the world to actually what comes out. So many of these skills really have changed my behavior and changed how I think and who I am, my character. And it is not just the videos and the quizzes, which are great, and I have learned a lot from them, absolutely. Amy Updike: I have also just loved diving deep into all of the classics and how every book I read now I can find a principle in it and I can find a way to bring it into my heart and recognize truths or untruths. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: Principles are so fun once you start to recognize them because you see them in movies and it starts to spoil movies for you and you see them in, sorry, sun is coming in. Amy Updike: Hey baby. Sorry, I am in a recorded interview, so I am going to wait for you to leave the room and then I am going to finish what I am going to say. Amy Updike: Okay. What was I saying? Audrey Rindlisbacher: How you can find principles as you read books and you can find them in movies and other things like that. Principles in Everyday Life and the World Around Us Amy Updike: So looking for principles in these books and movies is so fun. And I also have [00:31:00] found that I can look for principles or broken principles in the ballot when I am voting. Amy Updike: And that has changed the way I vote. It has changed the way I look at articles or things that are going on in the Supreme Court or things that are going on in current events. I can look back and say, okay, what is the principle? What is this person really arguing? What is this person really thinking? Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: Is there something we can agree on? And where? It has just created so much peace in my life that I do not fly off on the winds of whatever crazy thing is happening. And things happen all the time in the world and in my home. So it just allows me to have way more peace and confidence and control and love. Audrey Rindlisbacher: That is beautiful. We have this training coming up, which everyone listening, I would love to invite you to come. I would love to have you there. And we are talking about how to stop feeling powerless and become the expert in your own life. And that means exactly what you are talking about, Amy, that you can go to other experts, you can read, go to the doctor, see a therapist, look up someone who is running for office, a candidate. Audrey Rindlisbacher: And at the end of the day, [00:32:00] trust that your discernment, that the principles you have discovered, that your decisions about what all these other people are, all this advice that people are giving you, is that you can trust yourself to make those decisions, that you can trust yourself to be the expert about how you ought to move forward. Audrey Rindlisbacher: I heard a lot of that when you were talking about losing friendships as you tried to be principled. That just requires so much conviction and confidence and discernment, I think, to be able to say, this is the truth and I am going to stand on the truth. And I am sorry if you do not want to come there with me. Audrey Rindlisbacher: And that is unfortunate and I will miss you. But that is who I am going to be, that is what I am going to do. Choosing Principles in Community and Leadership Amy Updike: I feel like I want to clarify that experience a bit. It was also really, in the experience of choosing to start a new school and knowing that would hurt some people, the old school that I left, it was really important to me to recognize that they also were operating off of really good, wonderful principles. Amy Updike: And I understood what those principles were. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: And it enabled me to think about how I could do things differently and [00:33:00] yet recognize that we both were coming from a really good place and love and support them. And I have done my very best to support that school Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: and all of those families. Amy Updike: And even though it personally pricked when a family would choose them over our school Audrey Rindlisbacher: Sure. Amy Updike: and still do, there is still a lot of shuffling going on, even though that happens, I still never react unkindly about it. I always am supportive because I at my heart understand even if someone chooses not to go to school at all and go back to public school, or they want to choose a charter school, I support them because the principle is that we as parents have the right to choose what our children, what education they get and how they are educated. We have that right. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: And who am I to criticize or take away that truth from them? Yeah. And it is all good. We all should educate our children and each child needs something different and sometimes at different times in their lives. Amy Updike: So just understanding that principle and understanding that it is the application that differs changed my heart completely about it. And do not get me wrong, yet it pricked [00:34:00] sometimes. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Sure. Amy Updike: Just like I am sure it pricked for them when I made choices. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Sure. Amy Updike: But would it not be great if we all saw things that way and we said, okay, that is a different application. Amy Updike: I can support you in what you are doing and love you for what you are doing and not have it be all about me because it is not about me. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: It is about all of us trying to live the principles in the best application that works for our family at that time. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Yeah. That is awesome. Agree one hundred percent. Final Encouragement to Moms Audrey Rindlisbacher: So is there anything else that you would like to say to anyone listening? What would your advice be to moms that are out there thinking about joining the program or just wanting to navigate their lives better? Amy Updike: I think I would say that there is nothing more important than what we are doing in our own homes and in our own hearts, and we need to make an investment into ourselves and into our families. And sometimes it takes a really big sacrifice, and it might feel like a big sacrifice, to commit to a program like this or do anything that you are doing to better yourself. Amy Updike: But there is nothing more important than what we do, than finding a way to improve our relationships, than finding peace in our hearts, than understanding how to [00:35:00] navigate this terrifying world. And right now we need it more than ever. I am so grateful that I was exposed to this so long ago so that I had the skills to prepare me for when I really needed it the most. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: The last few years have brought some rough challenges. The passing of my mom and the way it happened was very difficult, to say the least. And having a child that is choosing something different than you ever dreamed for them is hard, and trying to love and understand them. And then I look around and I see so many people just ripped apart in their social groups, even in church, in their families, by the schism that is happening politically and all of the really difficult things that are happening and probably will keep happening. Amy Updike: And to be able to be secure in what you believe, to be able to be secure in how you act, and you have consciously chosen what that should be and you have practiced it and you are working on it and you are training yourself to respond in a respectful, loving way, who does that anymore? That can change everything. Amy Updike: It [00:36:00] can change everything in your life. And it has, for me. It has made some of these experiences that could have been almost irreparable not just bearable, but some of my relationships are even stronger after. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Wow. Amy Updike: Because of knowing who I am, knowing what God’s will is, and knowing what the principles are in any of these situations, or that I know how to find a principle. It is a skill that gives me so much peace and confidence. Amy Updike: And I just would hope that women would recognize their power, that we have influence over so many people. And because of this I am now at a stage that not only am I secure in myself and my family is operating well enough, I am working on that. But not only that, but I have been able to turn my focus outward to the community without sacrificing what is going on in my home. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: As we learn about in the Mission Driven Mom, so many times people turn outward first before they have their hearts and their lives in order. And it has been really beautiful being able to affect so many families in our community. Amy Updike: [00:37:00] And, I humbly Amy Updike: families will come to me and say, I cannot believe how you do this. How do you do so much? How do you run this school? How did you start the school? Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: And first of all, I did not do it alone at all. It was a team. But it was because I was able to start with principles. I was able to start with   Creating Impact Through Principles Amy Updike: A vision of what I wanted. And I was able to use those principles to gather people around me who wanted the same thing. And we have been able to make a really big impact in our little corner of the world. And that is all that matters. Yeah. I never will be known in the world and I do not care. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. I, Amy Updike: as long as my friends and family and those people that I am in contact with are bettered because of my influence and that my life is better because of the principles I am choosing, what more matters? Amy Updike: I love the opportunity to be able to have an impact on others. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: And to be able to create a community that heals families and gives support and is a place that is safe for faith and a place that people learn and love. And it has been life changing to be able to see these kids. Amy Updike: We have incorporated the five questions into some of our classes, [00:38:00] and they are getting there faster than I was. It has been beautiful to watch them go through the Academy and the changes that happen in their families because they are having an impact on their parents. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Wow. Amy Updike: I just wish, I wish that parents and families would recognize the power of doing both, of having the Mission Driven Mom in their home, but also having the Mission Driven Teen in their home because that has changed my kids quite a bit. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: Especially this one child I talked about that has made different choices. Even still, I can see him using those skills that we talked about years ago. I can see him stopping and trying to rephrase it and trying to see my point of view. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Wow. Amy Updike: It has been really powerful. So even though he has made different choices, these skills still have bettered our relationship and bettered our home life. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Wow. Amy Updike: So that has been really beautiful too. So I would encourage families to find it in their hearts to do both, to allow the kids this opportunity to change, but also how much more quickly can the culture of the family change? How much faster can we all practice the skills and get better if we are all learning it together? Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: So that has been really fun to see, [00:39:00] families grow in character and grow in their relationships. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: And in their confidence and peace. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Wow. Wow. Ordinary Women Doing Extraordinary Things Audrey Rindlisbacher: I want to ask you one last question just because on the back of the book, The Mission Driven Life, one of the things that is on there is it talks about how I was searching out these great men and women that really I admired and I wanted to be like them. Audrey Rindlisbacher: And I was trying to crack the code of how they became those kinds of people. And these seven laws of life mission were the pathway for ordinary people to do extraordinary things. And I know that when women listen to someone like you and you are so polished and beautiful and professional and you are doing big things, that maybe they just cannot imagine ever getting to the point where you are. Audrey Rindlisbacher: I am just wondering, was there a time in your past when the person that you are now and the things that you do now and the influence that you make in your community would have felt impossible for you, that you would have never imagined that you could do the things that you do [00:40:00] now? Amy Updike: Absolutely. In fact, I have a dear friend who, I think it was the very first year I started homeschooling, she looked at me and said, you are going to have your own school one day. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Wow. Amy Updike: And I went, what are you talking about? I am just trying to get the kids out the door and teach my one class. What are you talking about? Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: And she has a gift for seeing the Audrey Rindlisbacher: the Amy Updike: potential in other people. But at that moment I was just thinking I can barely keep my dishes done. I am just trying not to scream at my kids in the morning and not use expletives trying to get them in the car. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Oh, we can laugh now, but it was not funny then. Amy Updike: And I would cry the whole way there because I am like, I cannot believe what I just said. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Oh. Amy Updike: But yeah, it is a growing process and so many people will say, I do not know how you homeschool. Like how do you do that? Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: I could never do that. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: We can do way more than we think we can. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yes. Amy Updike: And it is one baby step at a time. I just remember going to Walmart with four little kids and somebody looking at me going, how do you do that? I can barely handle the one. And I said, they do not come all at once. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: You grow with it. Amy Updike: Grow Audrey Rindlisbacher: into it. Yep. You grow, Amy Updike: your capacity grows. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yes. Amy Updike: And you learn so much through [00:41:00] every experience. Every hard experience has taught me so much. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: And so every little baby step, and as long as we are practicing principles and as long as we are just striving, being self aware and just striving to be a little bit better, it does not even have to be every day. We take steps back, but just over time. Amy Updike: Yeah. As long as the trajectory is that we are able to do a little bit more each time, it is pretty incredible. And I bet you think that too. I look at you and I am just like, oh, how do you do what you do so much and raise your family? Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. I just want women that are listening to know that if you are in that place where you are like, I never could, just do not sell yourself short. It is just not true. You just do not know what you can do with the right tools, the right guidance, the right mentors, the right women around you, Amy Updike: Yeah. Audrey Rindlisbacher: and the right support systems and all of that kind of thing. Amy, you are amazing. I really am honored that you would come on today and share your story with us and be so honest and vulnerable and really think you are just such an amazing woman. Closing Invitation and Final Thoughts Audrey Rindlisbacher: So grateful for you and for all that you do and the influence that you have and everything that you have shared today. And so for those listening, [00:42:00] if you want to understand better the kinds of things that Amy has been talking about and understand how you could become more of an expert in your own life and what this thing called principles is and how they work and why they matter and how they could change your life, then I would invite you to click on the link in the description and register for this training that I am going to do. Audrey Rindlisbacher: And we are going to spend just an hour and a half together and I am going to walk you through some things that will get you jump started on this path and you will be able to start doing some of the things that Amy is talking about and have a window into how you really can become so much more than you think you can. Audrey Rindlisbacher: How you can solve your problems with truth, how the truth really will make you free. And more than that, you can learn who you really are and walk with confidence. Look at the kind of example that Amy is to her family and the confidence and conviction that she shows them. We are the heartbeat of the home and we represent motherhood and womanhood and adulthood. Audrey Rindlisbacher: And our example is everything. It is everything. And there is just [00:43:00] no reason to wait one more day to learn how to overcome whatever is in your way and move forward. Be more of that example that you would want to be. So I would invite you to join us for that training that is coming up soon. I would love to see you there. Audrey Rindlisbacher: And Amy, thank you again for being here with us. You are incredible and I wish you and your school and your community and your family all the best and hope you continue to grow and have more success in the future. Amy Updike: Thank you so much. You are too kind. I do not feel like I am that great, but I really appreciate it. Therapy and Trauma Amy Updike: We were in marriage therapy for a little bit and recently I was in therapy for some pretty traumatic family drama that happened in my nuclear family. What did you want to know about that? Audrey Rindlisbacher: Oh, I just thought that I had understood that you said that this had helped where therapy had not helped, but maybe that was my, maybe I misunderstood that. Amy Updike: No, I would not agree with that. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Oh, okay. Amy Updike: I think therapy taught skills too. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: But this was definitely more life changing, I think. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: For me, the therapy was more of triage. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: Getting me out of a hole at that moment. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: And this is more of everyday life things, how to handle the everyday life things. Amy Updike: And then when the big things happen, you can get out of it faster and easier. I am not sure how much you Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: want to hear about this, but I had a pretty traumatic experience a few years ago. My mother was actually killed because of my father. He ran over her with his truck and he was arrested for it. Amy Updike: And there is a lot of evidence that it was intentional. That happened almost three years ago. Audrey Rindlisbacher: How many years ago? Amy Updike: Almost three. It was in March. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Wow. Wow. I am so sorry, Amy. Amy Updike: Yeah, it was pretty horrific. And I have a pretty special relationship with my parents. My dad was quite abusive and he, not to me so much, but very much to my mother and to my brothers and sisters to different degrees. And there is a lot of pain in memory of my dad. And so this happening made, it just made it really bad. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: Made the relationships really hard. And so when I got the call that my mom was in the hospital, I immediately flew down and I was with my mom and dad, and I was with my dad in the house. Amy Updike: And then I would go to the hospital and it turns out she was so damaged that we had to, we had to take her off the machines. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: And my brothers and sisters flew in for the funeral and I was there trying to navigate on the ground what was going on. And while I was there I had some really difficult but interesting experiences that showed me how much I have learned. Amy Updike: About loving myself and loving others and loving God. And I was able to be in that situation and see the principles of it, see how much, see the good in it, see the good in my dad and be there for my mom, but also easily forgive my siblings for their struggles because some of them chose never to speak to him again. Amy Updike: And I completely understand and they could not understand how I could speak to my dad. But these teachings and these skills that I have learned through the Mission Driven Mom equipped me to be able to have those tough communication, wow, those tough conversations and helped me to separate myself from other people’s emotions and feelings and viewpoints to the point that I could understand them, but still hold true to what in my heart was right for me. And that has been a really powerful journey, being able to see other people’s choices in terms of principles. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: To be able to love them and still love myself and really not judge. Amy Updike: I think there is, that term is, there is a whole conversation that could happen about what judging really is, but yeah. Amy Updike: But to not condemn them for their feelings and their actions, but to understand them and love them. So I really feel like I was given, just between you and me, I really feel like I was given a gift, just an incredible gift. Amy Updike: To be able to handle that situation. Because when I got out of that situation and got home, I just collapsed and I felt the anger that my siblings felt, I felt the hurt and all of the emotions that they were feeling. But while I was there, I just felt peace and love and I was able to talk to the doctors and help with the things at home and all the things that needed to happen. Amy Updike: I was able to do them and be clearheaded because of that kind of extra gift from God and the skills I was given. They helped me through it. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Wow. I am so sorry. That is, do you want us to use any of that or do you want us to cut that part? Amy Updike: Whatever you feel like is appropriate. I am okay with it. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Okay. Amy Updike: I have never been shy about sharing it. And that is, it is part of the weird journey of recognizing that he made a huge mistake and loving him, but not allowing him to hide from it. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Wow. Amy Updike: It is a strange duality that I am dealing with. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Wow. Wow. That is incredible. So tell me a little bit more about the principles part. What does that mean to you? What difference does that make in how you live your life? Or just talk about that for a minute. Principles in Practice Amy Updike: Principles are a second part of this journey that have completely changed the way I think. Amy Updike: I was part of a homeschool group that I loved with dear people, but there were some things going on that I was slowly choosing maybe were not for me, that I wanted to go a different direction. Amy Updike: And I wanted some different styles of leadership and I wanted a different direction in education, just curriculum and ways to go about it. Amy Updike: And when I was pondering what that would look like and when I should do it and how I should do it and what the structure of the school would be and all those things, the Mission Driven Mom Celebration came up and I got an email that invited me to it, and they were going to talk about principles, and I just felt the strongest pull that I needed to be there. Amy Updike: I badly needed to be there. I did not know why, and we did not really have the finances for it, but somebody said if it is right, God will open a way. And so I just popped online and I found a ticket for a screaming deal. And I said, okay, this must be right. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Wow. Amy Updike: And so I planned and I told my husband I wanted to go, and he fully supported me as he always does. Amy Updike: He is awesome. And I went all the way to Texas and sat with the most incredible women and learned about principles. And it was so new to me. People use the word principle incorrectly so many times. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: They use it as opinions. They use it as their own experiences. They use it as truth, but they do not, I do not think people really understand what a principle is. Amy Updike: And as I walked out of there, I had a lot of notes and a lot of excitement and some understanding. And I started just diving right in and trying to apply what I had learned, trying to understand what principles are. I was so excited by the five questions. I was so excited by the idea that anything in my life, Amy Updike: I could figure out what the principle is and then figure out what my personal application is. So what I ended up doing is I ended up designing my school all around principles. The very first thing we did is we made a list of what our principles were, and I double checked that. I was not really good at that yet, but I was trying to double check that they were real, make sure they were backed up by scripture. Amy Updike: They were backed up by experience, that they really held true and they were vague enough or less detailed enough to apply in lots of different situations. So we came up with our list of principles and started there. Amy Updike: And it was a beautiful experience because I was so concerned about making a big change like that, which undoubtedly did hurt some people. Amy Updike: Some people had their feelings hurt because I made this choice and it shook up the structure of some things around. And I hated that, but I also knew that I wanted to Amy Updike: I wanted to make sure that what I was building was not a reaction to something. I wanted to make sure that it was not a response, that I was not going against something, but instead going for something, which is why we started on principles. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: And it has been a really beautiful experience because everything has centered around those principles. Amy Updike: And even now, four years in, one of our leadership team always stops and says, what is the principle for that? When someone comes up and has a concern or they are frustrated about something or a kid does something wrong and we want to start another rule or whatever situation comes up, we always ask, what is the principle? Amy Updike: And it allows us to go back to our core values. It allows us to go back to the reason we do things. And so many times we realize we do not need another rule for that. We just need to reinforce the principle. We need to reteach the principle, or we need to change the structure of things so that the culture is surrounding the principle better. Amy Updike: And it really has worked. It has been such a beautiful experience. Having all of the structure of the school, the rules and the policies and the classes and even what classes we teach and why we teach them and what age we teach them. Everything is around these principles that we have defined in the beginning. Amy Updike: And while some people, I lost some friends over it and it really makes me very sad. They may never be as close to me as they were before. But it makes a huge difference that I know in my heart I was going toward principles and I was doing something that I was guided to do, that I wanted to do. Amy Updike: But also it was not a reaction to anything. It was building something that was important to me. Something else I wanted to say about that. Amy Updike: I knew in my heart that I had done something and acted in a way that was in line with my values and also was something that I felt like God approved of. I felt because we started with principles and because I did an introspection to know how I wanted to behave, how I wanted things to look, that I feel right in my heart. Amy Updike: I have a friend that always says, sometimes you are the villain in someone else’s story. And that gives me a lot of peace. Not to say my actions have always been perfect, but my intentions have been right or good. My intentions were pure. I wanted good things. And sometimes that gives us a lot of peace just to know that I acted according to my values and that I am right with God. Amy Updike: And then let the chips fall where they may and just hope that those relationships resolve themselves eventually. And in our day and time, that experience has given me peace in other situations that are harder, truly because in our relationships, in our families, I think most of us have someone or many people in our family who are making choices that we do not feel are right with God and we do not feel are right with principles. Amy Updike: But seeing it that way gives us so much peace. So another example is I have a child who has made choices that are not what I would have wanted for them. But I have been able to separate my grief at the hopes and wishes dashed and my beliefs and rules and what they intend and want. And in the Mission Driven Mom Level Two, we learn a lot about principles and we learn about first principles, which are hard to distinguish. Amy Updike: And it took me a long time to figure out. First Principles and Compassion Amy Updike: In fact, I think I fully understood it when I taught it to youth after I had taken the class and then I taught it, and then I was like, I think I know what I am talking about. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Teaching really is a good way to learn, for sure. Amy Updike: But first principles are incredible because once you identify what it is, you can separate yourself from the applications. Amy Updike: I can look at this child and say, I know their heart is wanting this. I know their heart believes this. I know this is what they are going for. And I agree with that first principle. Sometimes even that principle, but that application, it diverges. And those applications many times are not good for you, are not in line with God’s law, are not something that is proven to be healthy. Amy Updike: But I can still show compassion and love and understanding toward that child and other people in my life because I can understand where they are coming from. I can agree with them where I agree and then kindly disagree appropriately for the rest of it. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: And be okay that they are living in a different way than I am living. Amy Updike: Principles are just so powerful because we can use them in every aspect of our lives. For example, you have taught so much about principles and health, for example. It is just an easier one to talk about. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: I may choose to never eat sugar again, or I may choose to have a Kit Kat bar every single night, or I may choose to only have non refined sugars, or whatever it is. Amy Updike: And that is an application. And I do not have to judge or be angry or be frustrated or condemn or get all up in arms because somebody is choosing it differently than me. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: I can understand we both are trying to be healthier. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: That we both agree that limiting sugar is a good thing. Amy Updike: That is way easier. It is a simple topic than some of the other ones we could talk about. But that has given me so much love for other people and it allows me to be kind and allows me not to get upset. Whereas before I understood these things, and like I mentioned earlier I struggled so much with being angry. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: And this has allowed me not to be angry about it because I can pause and say, wait a second, am I being a victim? Am I in the wrong? I can pause and say, are they living this principle in a different way than I choose to live it? And whether I agree or not, I can still have compassion and love for them. Amy Updike: And that has changed all my relationships in my life. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Wow. Wow. That is incredible. You were just making me think about how I feel like in the world, we are told that in order to really love, in order to really show empathy and compassion, we need to be permissive. And you are saying something very different than that, but on the surface, sometimes it can look similar. Audrey Rindlisbacher: And that is why when we can think in terms of the natural law framework and really have a handle on it. Because what you are saying is that because you can build bridges with people on   Love, Boundaries, and First Principles Audrey Rindlisbacher: First principles upon which you agree, then you can honor the intention. And you can see that in their own way, they are trying to be a principled person, but they are confused about maybe which principles follow because they do not have these thinking skills, or their applications are not what they ought to be or are wreaking havoc or whatever. Audrey Rindlisbacher: And so it gives you tools to parse all that out and to discern so much more clearly the difference between being permissive and continuing to do actions of love for whoever it is, regardless of what choices they are making, without compromising what you know to be true, without compromising the principles you are striving to live and the values that you hold dear. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Because you can let go of their specific daily choices and it, I do not know, somehow. And I guess you and I just have this shared language so we can understand each other and it might be a little harder for the audience to understand until they get there, but it is so liberating to be able to say, I know that at any moment that you choose to step back into principles, your life can course correct. Audrey Rindlisbacher: And until you hit up against life enough times, then maybe you need to learn that way. And that is perfectly fine. I am still going to love you and be here for you, but I do not have to affirm that I love everything that you are doing. I do not have to approve of all of your choices. I can recognize that they might not be principled, but I can see, I can differentiate you from your choices. Audrey Rindlisbacher: And anyway, parsing all of that out, understanding it more clearly, seeing it for what it is is so much easier. Amy Updike: You are right. It does on the surface sound like the phrase, you do you. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: It does. And as you were talking, I was pondering the difference. And I think the difference mostly is in the approach and in my heart. Amy Updike: The book Anatomy of Peace teaches about getting your heart in a heart of peace, not a heart of war. Amy Updike: And this allows me to be in a heart of peace, and I will give you an extension to this story. Just recently for the holidays, this child was home and opened up their heart to me about a significant change in their life that they were going to be making. Amy Updike: Something that maybe five years ago would have devastated me. Amy Updike: And do not get me wrong, I do not agree with it. I am saddened by it. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: But because he knew I loved him. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: Because he knew my heart was at peace toward him. And for clarification, this is a child who is older and out of the house. Amy Updike: Yeah. He is an adult. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: And making these choices. It is a different situation when they are in your home. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: But this conversation went really well, and it went well because I was able to talk in terms of my beliefs. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: And my principles. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: And how much I loved him. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: And the things that would be acceptable and allowed in my home and things that would not be, and the conversation went so well because he was able to say, yes. I hear you. I respect you because I respected him too. I think that is the difference. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: Boundaries were not taken away. There were still things that I have made very clear that I would not pay for nor support. Amy Updike: In public nor would I allow in my home. Amy Updike: And he understood that. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: But also it was a good conversation because he also understood that I was not taking away his choice. That I was understanding where he was coming from, that I was hearing him and respecting his experience and his reasonings. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: So it is tricky and it is tender. Yeah. When it is somebody that is Audrey Rindlisbacher: Oh yeah. Amy Updike: that close to you. But it is not a you do you thing. It is more of an open up your heart so you can share when the time is appropriate. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: When they are ready to listen. And that will never come if I just came down with only my application rules, my home, my rules. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: Or this is where the line is. You cannot cross it. So these principles and this thinking, as you can see, have really changed the way I behave toward even those closest to me. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: That I do not feel like I have compromised on what is allowed in my home or what is acceptable or what I will do because it is boundaries. Amy Updike: Yeah. Yeah. What I will do. Audrey Rindlisbacher: You do not have to pretend to be someone else, or you do not have to relax your own values and your own standards, and you do not have to pretend like you approve, but yet the relationship stays strong and loving and close and clearly there is enough trust that he feels like he can talk to you and be open and honest with you. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Because why? Because he wants to stay in your life. He does not want to write you off because he knows he is loved and you have been able to build that between the two of you. So that is really incredible. Amy Updike: Yeah. I just hope it continues. I hope I can keep acting in a way that he feels loved. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Who Amy Is Now Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. So tell me where you are today in terms, especially, you have mentioned, you have thrown out some words, you have said some things, but give us a picture with just some words or phrases or sentences that might describe. Before, you talked about someone who was angry, resentful, in a victim mindset, troubled, overwhelmed, frustrated. And who is Amy now? Amy Updike: I feel confident. I feel at peace. Sure, I still have rough days occasionally, but I feel self assured because I know, I truly do know, who I am and I know what my values are and I know what God wants from me and what His laws are. And I just love the phrase, we are practicing principles. Amy Updike: Because that is exactly what we are doing. Even a couple days ago, a situation happened where I was thrown right into victimhood. I was right into, oh, this is never going to change, and I am so frustrated. But I was able to get out of it really quickly. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yes. Amy Updike: And even though sometimes those emotions still stay, I can keep self checking, going, nope. What can I do today? I can go on a walk. What can I do today? I can take a breath and assure myself that it is going to be all right. Because I am not in control of everything, but I am in control of me. I am in control of how I feel. I am in control of, control is the right word, but I can choose my thoughts. Amy Updike: I can choose to rephrase things. I choose to feel Audrey Rindlisbacher: It does not, does it? Amy Updike: Yeah. Audrey Rindlisbacher: It does feel like you are in control because you are living intentionally and you are determining who you are going to be today. How are you going to show up today? Audrey Rindlisbacher: We talk about this in the Academy quite a bit, that we can choose to entertain certain thoughts and the thoughts that we entertain determine the emotions that we feel. And that is at least part of the equation that I hear you saying, is that you have retrained the way that you think through the lens of principles, but through other tools as well. Audrey Rindlisbacher: And now you are living much more intentionally from that tiny seed of thought choice all the way through to these hard conversations that you are having with your family. And that does make you feel more in control. Because you talked about before how you would wake up and make a commitment to yourself that you were not going to get angry and you were not going to do this or that. Audrey Rindlisbacher: And yet so often, several years ago, you would give in to that anger because you did not have the tools, you did not have the principles, you did not have a better plan. You did not understand what was at the root of it. There is a really famous quote, I think it is Henry David Thoreau, that I love a lot and have been using a lot lately. Audrey Rindlisbacher: He says, for every thousand that are hacking at the branches of evil or the leaves of evil, something like that, there is only one hacking at the root. And that is something that I really wanted the MDM Academy to give moms, was to get to the root. These are all of the symptoms. This is the environment. This is what I am swimming in. But what is really at the heart of that? Audrey Rindlisbacher: And in all of those self leadership sections, the titles of those sections are increasing my personal power. Would you say that you feel more powerful now? Would that be a term you would use for yourself? Amy Updike: Absolutely. Getting to the Root Amy Updike: And I love that idea of hitting at the roots, because like I mentioned before, I have spent so much time reading self help books and I have gone to therapy about different issues in my life, and they, it was more like they would help. Oh, what does Covey call it? He calls it the behaviors Audrey Rindlisbacher: The quadrant? No, like the behaviors versus the internal team personality and Amy Updike: character ethic. Audrey Rindlisbacher: So Covey talks about the personality Amy Updike: versus the Audrey Rindlisbacher: character ethic. You just said it. Amy Updike: Okay. So Covey talks about the personality versus the character ethic. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: And I felt like I spent so much time just trying to do the things that would fix it. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: So many times trying to find that one skill that would change it. Amy Updike: And sure, those techniques do make a difference on the surface, but it does not change the root, the core problem. And in me, the core problem was a feeling of insecurity, a feeling of not being of value. It stems from some childhood trauma. It stems from just different beliefs about myself. But recognizing who I really am has changed it all. Amy Updike: And recognizing my power to have influence over my family, which sounds power hungry. It is not. But the creator mindset, that I can create a home of peace and not just do it out of, okay, I am going to count to 10, which is a good skill. It is a good skill. But is it not better when you stop and say, okay, why am I angry? Amy Updike: I am angry because I am embarrassed that this child is going out in public looking this way, and they do not have their shoes on. So rather than freaking out that they do not have their shoes on and screaming at them, I can stop and recognize this is about me. Amy Updike: This is about Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yes. Amy Updike: me feeling embarrassed. Audrey Rindlisbacher: So often, almost all the time, there is something that you can do. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yes. Amy Updike: Just changing that dialogue in your head makes all the difference in the world to actually what comes out. So many of these skills really have changed my behavior and changed how I think and who I am, my character. And it is not just the videos and the quizzes, which are great. And I have learned a lot from them. Absolutely. I have also just loved diving deep into all of the classics and how every book I read now I can find a principle in it and I can find a way to Amy Updike: bring it into my heart and recognize truths or untruths. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: Principles are so fun once you start to recognize them because you see them in movies and it starts to spoil movies for you and you see them in, sorry, the sun is coming in. Amy Updike: Hey baby. Sorry, I am in a recorded interview, so I am going to wait for you to leave the room and then I am going to finish what I am going to say. Amy Updike: Okay. What was I saying? Audrey Rindlisbacher: How you can find principles as you read books and you can find them in movies and other things like that. Principles in Voting, News, and Daily Life Amy Updike: So looking for principles in these books and movies is so fun. And I also have found that I can look for principles or broken principles in the ballot when I am voting. Amy Updike: And that has changed the way I vote. It has changed the way I look at articles or things that are going on in the Supreme Court or things that are going on in current events. I can look back and say, okay, what is the principle? What is this person really arguing? What is this person really thinking? Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Is there something we can agree on? Amy Updike: And where? It has just created so much peace in my life that I do not fly off on the winds of whatever crazy thing is happening. And things happen all the time in the world and in my home. So it just allows me to have way more peace and confidence and control and love. Audrey Rindlisbacher: That is beautiful. We have this training coming up, which everyone listening, I would love to invite you to come. I would love to have you there. And we are talking about how to stop feeling powerless and become the expert in your own life. And that means exactly what you are talking about, Amy, that you can go to other experts, you can read, go to the doctor, see a therapist, look up someone who is running for office, a candidate. Audrey Rindlisbacher: And at the end of the day, trust that your discernment, that the principles you have discovered, that your decisions about what all these other people are, all this advice that people are giving you, is that you can trust yourself to make those decisions, that you can trust yourself to be the expert about how you ought to move forward. Audrey Rindlisbacher: I heard a lot of that when you were talking about losing friendships as you tried to be principled. That just requires so much conviction and confidence and discernment, I think, to be able to say, this is the truth and I am going to stand on the truth. And I am sorry if you do not want to come there with me. Audrey Rindlisbacher: And that is unfortunate and I will miss you. But that is who I am going to be, that is what I am going to do. Supporting Others While Choosing Differently Amy Updike: I feel like I want to clarify that experience a bit. It was also really, in the experience of choosing to start a new school and knowing that would hurt some people, the old school that I left, it was really important to me to recognize that they also were operating off of really good, wonderful principles. Amy Updike: And I understood what those principles were. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: And it enabled me to think about how I could do things differently and yet recognize that we both were coming from a really good place and love and support them. And I have done my very best to support that school. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: And all of those families. Amy Updike: And even though it personally pricked when a family would choose them over our school Audrey Rindlisbacher: Sure. Amy Updike: and still do. There is still a lot of shuffling going on. Even though that happens, I still never react unkindly about it. I always am supportive because I, at my heart, understand even if someone chooses not to go to school at all and go back to public school, or they want to choose to start our school, I support them because the principle is that we as parents have the right to choose what our children, what education they get and how they are educated. We have that right. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: And who am I to criticize or take away that truth from them? Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: And it is all good. We all should educate our children and each child needs something different and sometimes at different times in their lives. Amy Updike: So just understanding that principle and understanding that it is the application that differs changed my heart completely about it. And do not get me wrong, it still pricked sometimes. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Sure. Amy Updike: Just like I am sure it pricked for them when I made choices. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Sure. Amy Updike: But would it not be great if we all saw things that way and we said, okay, that is a different application. Amy Updike: I can support you in what you are doing and love you for what you are doing and not have it all be about me because it is not about me. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: It is about all of us trying to live the principles in the best application that works for our family at that time. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Yeah. That is awesome. I agree one hundred percent. Advice to Moms Audrey Rindlisbacher: So is there anything else that you would like to say to anyone listening? What would your advice be to moms that are out there thinking about joining the program or just wanting to navigate their lives better? Amy Updike: I will shut this curtain. It is starting to glare in my eyes. Amy Updike: I think I would say that there is nothing more important than what we are doing in our own homes and in our own hearts, and we need to make an investment into ourselves and into our families. And sometimes it takes a really big sacrifice, and it might feel like a big sacrifice, to commit to a program like this or do anything that you are doing to better yourself. Amy Updike: But there is nothing more important than what we do, than finding a way to improve our relationships, than finding peace in our hearts, than understanding how to navigate this terrifying world. And right now we need it more than ever. I am so grateful that I was exposed to this so long ago so that I had the skills to prepare me for when I really needed it the most. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: The last few years have brought some rough challenges. The passing of my mom and the way it happened was very difficult, to say the least. And having a child that is choosing something different than you ever dreamed for them is hard, and trying to love and understand them. And then I look around and I see so many people just ripped apart in their social groups, even in church, in their families, by the schism that is happening politically and all of the really difficult things that are happening and probably will keep happening. Amy Updike: And to be able to be secure in what you believe, to be able to be secure in how you act, and you have consciously chosen what that should be and you have practiced it and you are working on it and you are training yourself to respond in a respectful, loving way, who does that anymore? That can change everything. Amy Updike: It can change everything in your life. And it has, for me. It has made some of these experiences that could have been almost irreparable not just bearable, but some of my relationships are even stronger after. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Wow. Amy Updike: Because of knowing who I am, knowing what God’s will is, and knowing what the principles are in any of these situations, or that I know how to find a principle. It is a skill that gives me so much peace and confidence. Amy Updike: And I just would hope that women would recognize their power, that we have influence over so many people. And because of this I am now at a stage that not only am I secure in myself, and my family is operating well enough, I am working on that. But not only that, but I have been able to turn my focus outward to the community without sacrificing what is going on in my home. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: So many times, as we learn about in the Mission Driven Mom, people turn outward first before they have their hearts and their lives in order. And it has been really beautiful being able to affect so many families in our community. Amy Updike: And I humbly, when families will come to me and say, I cannot believe how you do this. How do you do so much? How do you run this school? How did you start the school? Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: And first of all, I did not do it alone at all. It was a team. But it was because I was able to start with principles. I was able to start with a vision of what I wanted. And I was able to use those principles to gather people around me who wanted the same thing. And we have been able to make a really big impact in our little corner of the world. And that is all that matters. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. I, Amy Updike: I never will be known in the world and I do not care. As long as my friends and family and those people that I am in contact with are bettered because of my influence and that my life is better because of the principles I am choosing, what more matters? Amy Updike: I just love the opportunity to be able to have an impact on others. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: And to be able to create a community that heals families and gives support and is a place that is safe for faith and a place that people learn and love. And it has been life changing to be able to see these kids. Amy Updike: We have incorporated the five questions into some of our classes, and they are getting there faster than I was. It has been beautiful to watch them go through the Academy and the changes that happen in their families because they are having an impact on their parents. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Wow. Amy Updike: I just wish that parents and families would recognize the power of doing both, of having the Mission Driven Mom in their home, but also having the Mission Driven Teen in their home because that has changed my kids quite a bit. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: Especially this one child I talked about that has made different choices. Even still, I can see him using those skills that we talked about years ago. I can see him stopping and trying to rephrase it and trying to see my point of view. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Wow. Amy Updike: It has been really powerful. So even though he has made different choices, these skills still have bettered our relationship and bettered our home life. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Wow. Amy Updike: So that has been really beautiful too. So I would encourage families to find it in their hearts to do both, to allow the kids this opportunity to change, but also how much more quickly can the culture of the family change? How much faster can we all practice the skills and get better if we are all learning it together? Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: So that has been really fun to see families grow in character and grow in their relationships. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: And in their confidence and peace. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Wow. Wow. Ordinary People Can Grow Into More Audrey Rindlisbacher: I want to ask you one last question just because on the back of the book, The Mission Driven Life, one of the things that I say, one of the things that is on there, is it talks about how I was searching out these great men and women that really I admired and I wanted to be like them. Audrey Rindlisbacher: And I was trying to crack the code of how they became those kinds of people. And these seven laws of life mission were the pathway for ordinary people to do extraordinary things. And I know that when women listen to someone like you and you are so polished and beautiful and professional and you are doing big things, that maybe they just cannot imagine ever getting to the point where you are. Audrey Rindlisbacher: I am just wondering, was there a time in your past when the person that you are now and the things that you do now and the influence that you make in your community would have felt impossible for you, that you would have never imagined that you could do the things that you do now? Amy Updike: Absolutely. In fact I have a dear friend who, I think it was the very first year I started homeschooling, she looked at me and said, you are going to have your own school one day. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Wow. Amy Updike: And I went, what are you talking about? I am just trying to get the kids out the door and teach my one class. What are you talking about? Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: And she has a gift for seeing the Audrey Rindlisbacher: the Amy Updike: potential in other people. But at that moment I was just thinking I can barely keep my dishes done. I am just trying not to scream at my kids in the morning and not use expletives trying to get them in the car. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Oh, we can laugh now, but it was not funny then. Amy Updike: And I would cry the whole way there because I am like, I cannot believe what I just said. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Oh. Amy Updike: But yeah, it is a growing process and so many people will say, I do not know how you homeschool. Like how do you do that? Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: I could never do that. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: We can do way more than we think we can. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yes. Amy Updike: And it is one baby step at a time. I just remember going to Walmart with four little kids and somebody looking at me going, how do you do that? I can barely handle the one. And I said, they do not come all at once. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: You grow with it. Amy Updike: Grow Audrey Rindlisbacher: into it. Yep. You grow, Amy Updike: your capacity grows. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yes. Amy Updike: And you learn so much through every experience. Every hard experience has taught me so much. Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. Amy Updike: And so every little baby step, and as long as we are practicing principles and as long as we are just striving, being self aware and just striving to be a little bit better, it does not even have to be every day. We take steps back, but just over time. Amy Updike: Yeah. As long as the trajectory is that we are able to do a little bit more each time, it is pretty incredible. And I bet you think that too. I look at you and I am just like, oh, how do you do what you do so much and raise your family? Audrey Rindlisbacher: Yeah. I just want women that are listening to know that if you are in that place where you are like, I never could, just do not sell yourself short. It is not true. You just do not know what you can do with the right tools, the right guidance, the right mentors, the right women around you, Amy Updike: Yeah. Audrey Rindlisbacher: and the right support systems and all of that kind of thing. Amy, you are amazing. I really am honored that you would come on today and share your story with us and be so honest and vulnerable and I really think you are just such an amazing woman. <h4>Closing Invitation</h4> Audrey Rindlisbacher: So grateful for you and for all that you do and the influence that you have and everything that you have shared today. And so for those listening, if you want to understand better the kinds of things that Amy has been talking about and understand how you could become more of an expert in your own life and what this thing called principles is and how they work and why they matter and how they could change your life, then I would invite you to click on the link in the description and register for this training that I am going to do. Audrey Rindlisbacher: And we are going to spend just an hour and a half together and I am going to walk you through some things that will get you jump started on this path and you will be able to start doing some of the things that Amy is talking about and have a window into how you really can become so much more than you think you can. Audrey Rindlisbacher: How you can solve your problems with truth, how the truth really will make you free. And more than that, you can learn who you really are and walk with confidence. Look at the kind of example that Amy is to her family and the confidence and conviction that she shows them. We are the heartbeat of the home and we represent motherhood and womanhood and adulthood. Audrey Rindlisbacher: And our example is everything. It is everything. And there is just no reason to wait one more day to learn how to overcome whatever is in your way and move forward. Be more of that example that you would want to be. So I would invite you to join us for that training that is coming up soon. I would love to see you there. Audrey Rindlisbacher: And Amy, thank you again for being here with us. You are incredible and I wish you and your school and your community and your family all the best and hope you continue to grow and have more success in the future. Amy Updike: Thank you so much. You are too kind. I do not feel like I am that great, but I really appreciate it.

In this episode, Audrey talks with MDM Academy graduate Cadie Hatch about homeschooling, higher education, classical learning, motherhood, and the journey that led her to help launch a classical charter school in her community. Cadie shares how her experience in the Academy showed her what principles are and how to use them, the confidence, and clarity she needed to lead, serve, and persevere through a difficult but deeply meaningful project. This conversation is a beautiful reminder that moms matter, education matters, and ordinary women can do extraordinary good in the world. RESOURCES The Poem "If" by Rudyard Kipling   AI GENERATED TRANSCRIPT Introduction Audrey: Welcome back to the podcast. I am Audrey Rindlisbacher. I’m excited to be with you today. If you are new to the podcast, make sure and go back to the beginning. Listen to some of those early podcasts so you can learn about the seven laws of life, mission, and mission-driven stories, and all of those things, so you can have an understanding of what we do here at the Mission-Driven Mom and on this podcast. I’m joined today by Cadie Hatch. She is a dear friend and an MDM Academy graduate, and we get to dig into her experiences and learn a lot from her today. I’m really grateful to her for joining us and for being willing to share herself, her time, and her experiences. Cadie, welcome. Thank you for being here. Cadie: Thank you, Audrey. It has been a dream of mine to be on the podcast one day, so I’m excited. Audrey: There you go. Here we are, fulfilling dreams all the time. Cadie: Yeah. Audrey: Yeah. So tell us, just introduce yourself briefly. I’ll ask you more questions, we’ll dig into your story more. Tell us just a little bit about yourself.   Cadie’s Background Cadie: Sure. So I was born and raised in New Mexico, and I have to say that because I feel like there’s not very many New Mexicans that you hear about. Audrey: So yes, that’s, you are very kind for sure. Cadie: So I am a New Mexican. I grew up in a home where I was the youngest of five children. My father was self-employed. He and his first cousin were business partners for their entire career. My dad was a logger, and he logged on the Mescalero Apache Indian Reservation near where we lived. And so with that we got a lot of really unique experiences as kids, the things that we got to do. We spent a lot of time out in the woods, and he was an avid hunter, sportsman, and he loved being out in the woods. And it was just great. He gave us an amazing childhood, which I’m very grateful for. My mother, she homeschooled us. Audrey: Wow. Cadie: My oldest brother, when he was going into eighth grade, my mom decided to pull everybody out and homeschool. That was the year that I would have gone into kindergarten. So I was homeschooled my entire K through 12 education. Audrey: What made her decide to do that? Do you know? Cadie: I think she was just, I want to do something different. I think I remember her saying a couple girls called my brother, and she was like, oh no, we’re not doing that. It’s way too early for that. Audrey: Oh, that’s funny. Cadie: So anyway, because of my dad’s work, we just had some really unique opportunities where the boys could go and they could work with him. Audrey: Oh. Cadie: And they were able to be out in the woods working with him and all of our extended family, and it was a really amazing opportunity for them. Audrey: Wow. To just gain some life skills in that way. And so I think if there was a theme for my life, like three things, it would probably really be faith, family, and education. Cadie: Because I think growing up as somebody who had been homeschooled and was used to doing things differently in terms of education, I have not been too put off by going my own route in education throughout my life. And I think that kind of really set me up for some of the things that I ended up doing as I became an adult and as I continued in my education.   Early Adulthood and Meeting Her Husband Cadie: When I was younger, I got my GED when I was 16. Audrey: Oh wow. Cadie: And I ended up moving out a few months before I turned 18. I moved to Arizona and I went to a little community college in Arizona, and that’s where I ended up meeting my husband. I got my associate’s degree in business administration, and we met there and I just fell in love with him, almost like on first sight, which is so silly, but it’s true. One of the things that attracted me so much to him was his, I almost hesitate to use the word ambition because I feel like sometimes that can have this negative connotation of it’s all about me. But he was just a doer. I could see that in him when we would be walking across campus, and I would just watch the way that he walked. He was going somewhere. He had a plan. He always had a planner. He’s always been an avid goal setter. And so he sets these goals and he reaches these goals. And so I knew from pretty early on, when I first met him, that he was going to be doing things in his life. Life wouldn’t happen to him. He would be doing things. Audrey: Oh, that’s awesome. Cadie: And I really wanted to go with him and be part of that with him. And we met there at college. We were married, and it’s been an adventure ever since. We thought we would stay in Arizona, but we got a job opportunity that brought us up to northeastern Nevada. And we’ve been up here for about 12 years, almost 13 years. We thought that we would just be here for a little while and go back down to Arizona. But we’ve loved it so much. I just don’t know that we’ll ever leave. I love it up here. It’s been great.   Life in Nevada and the Pumpkin Patch Audrey: And you are on some land. Cadie: We have a little, a small town. So we live, Elko is the main city. I mean, it’s not huge, but Elko is the bigger town, and we live about 20 miles outside of Elko. And so we’ve got about 10 acres. We moved to that property in 2020, and I was just thinking about this morning, when we moved, we thought, we’ve always just bought all of our furniture from yard sales. Let’s get, like, new furniture. Audrey: There you go. Cadie: That would be so exciting. We’re getting this new house, we’ll get new furniture. So we sold all of our furniture. We moved to our house in March of 2020, and the next week everything shut down and there was no furniture to be had. Audrey: I did not know that. That’s hilarious. Cadie: All we had was this giant overstuffed beanbag, and that was the one piece of furniture that we had in our living room that we would all just sit on. Audrey: Did you at least have beds? Cadie: We did have our beds. We did save our beds. So we had that. But we didn’t have a kitchen table, so we ended up yard saleing again and buying more yard sale furniture because you couldn’t get it from the furniture store, which was fine. Audrey: Wow. That’s hilarious. Cadie: But the thing also about moving to that property in 2020, and again, I think this kind of highlights Tim, my husband, as a doer, is that when we moved there, I knew he wanted to plant a garden, but I thought, oh, eventually, in a couple years we’ll plant a garden. Audrey: Yeah. Cadie: But we moved there in March and by June we had cleared off the property and we had put in an acre garden. Audrey: Wow. Cadie: And we planted, almost all of it was pumpkins. We had a few potatoes, but I think it was all pumpkins that first year, and he was so driven to get that done. And I couldn’t understand, like, why are you needing to plant this garden so much? Audrey: Yeah. Cadie: And he just kept saying to me, I just have a feeling that this garden, this will make people happy. That if they come out here, it will help people. They’ll just be happy when they come get pumpkins. Audrey: Wow. Cadie: And again, that was COVID. That was March 2020. Everything shut down. By the time we got to October, we hadn’t really met many people because our churches were closed at the time. Our communities, different things that we would normally do to get together with people, just weren’t happening. We didn’t really meet our neighbors. And so by October everybody was ready to get out of the house. And because it was outside, we could say, come over, and we just put a sign out on the field and said, come in, get a pumpkin, we’ll come and meet you. And that’s how we met most of our neighbors. Audrey: Wow. Cadie: And it was a really great experience, and it’s always been something that we’ve done as a thank you to the people who my husband works with in his business, his career. We’ve planted those pumpkins for the last four, we’ve done four out of the five years. Audrey: Wow. And that’s coming up. That’s this week, right? Didn’t you say that? Cadie: That’s this week. We are having our pumpkin patch. It’s early October. Audrey: So great.   Discovering the Mission Driven Mom Audrey: All right, so let’s talk about your MDM journey. How you learned about what we do and what that looked like for you. So go back. Here you are, you’re a mom, you have a few children, and you were a full time mom, right, a stay at home mom? Cadie: Yes. Audrey: And starting to homeschool. Did you always know, was that always the plan? I’m going to get married, I’m going to have kids, and homeschool them? Cadie: Yeah, that was always my plan. I did tell Tim that when we get married, because he was in school, we were both in school, and I said, my goal, I want to be a stay at home mom. I really believe in the importance of moms at home with their kids. So I want to have kids, I want to stay home with my kids, and I want to homeschool because I was homeschooled. I loved it. I want to do that. And bless him, he went along with me. And how I ended up actually finding MDM is interesting. At the time my sister and I would talk a lot about books that we enjoyed, and I remember her saying, oh, you’ve got to read, you’ve got to go online to this website, Books You Love, or I don’t remember if it was a website. You were doing something called Books You Love. Audrey: Mm hmm. Cadie: And you were doing these book reviews. I think you did them with your kids, right? Audrey: Mm hmm. Cadie: Yeah. And I just remember, I was like, oh, all these cute little kids, these book reviews, like my dream, right? Like how cool. And so we would get on there, and what I appreciated about you at that point, I only had my associate’s degree, and again, that was in business administration. I had taken like one literature class during my associate’s degree time. And so I had read enough literature through that degree program to be like, every time they read a book, it’s just all about some kind of sexual revolution, right? Like, how are women being oppressed and that they needed to be liberated through their sexuality. Every story that we read, and I would read some of these, I’m like, I really don’t think that’s what this story is about. And they were like, no, no, it is. This is what it’s about. And so I was like, okay. So when I read the books that you were suggesting in Books You Love, you had a way of reading the books that was so much more authentic to what I felt the author’s actual intent was. And when I would leave there, I felt, I would read something and I would come away feeling noble, like I was a better person for having read that. Audrey: Wow. Cadie: Even if it was something that I didn’t agree with, like the author may have said some things I didn’t agree on, I still felt like I came away a better person because I had learned something from you and how you had read that book. Audrey: Oh, that’s great.   Why Her College Degree Disappointed Her Cadie: At that point, I think I had three kids when I would read Books You Love. And we got busy and life just got away from us, and so I got away from what you were doing. But every once in a while I think I would check back in because I just had this thought, one day she’s going to have a school or something, and I just want to go to her school. That would be so great. So in the meantime, I have to admit here, when my husband was getting his bachelor’s degree, I was not a very supportive wife. Audrey: Wow. Cadie: This goes back to this idea of me being, my dad was an entrepreneur, I was a homeschooled kid. If you wanted to go the college route, that’s fine, but if you don’t want to go the college route, you can start a business, that’s fine too. And so when my husband was getting his bachelor’s degree, there were just times when it was really hard, and when it would get really hard, he’d be like, I don’t want to do this right now. And I’d say, you don’t have to. We’ll just go start a business. It’s fine. Audrey: Yeah. Cadie: And so he was like, that is not helping me in this moment. And I’m like, but really, we could, you don’t have to do this. We could do something else. And so I regret that. I do regret that I was not more supportive of him in getting his bachelor’s degree. So what ended up happening was years later he wanted to go back for his master’s. And he had always known he wanted a master’s degree. And so he told me, I feel like now is a good time for me to go back for my master’s degree, and I feel like if you were getting your bachelor’s degree, it might go better than last time. Maybe you’d be more supportive. Audrey: Oh, funny. Cadie: So I was like, fine, sure. I’ll go get my bachelor’s degree. So at that point, my husband is getting his master’s, I’m getting my bachelor’s, I think I had a second grader, a kindergartner, and two toddlers. Audrey: Wow. Cadie: And we went back to school, and he got his master’s degree and I got my bachelor’s degree. Audrey: How did you do it? What did you do with kids and how did you afford it? Cadie: Yeah. We are very blessed that he has a really great job that has been a blessing to our family. And so we were able to afford it. We were able to just manage it with his income. And then with the kids, it was one of those things I was like, I haven’t been sleeping for years anyway, so now that the baby is sleeping, why sleep now? Audrey: Yeah. Cadie: The baby is sleeping through the night, so I can get a solid six hours, and then if I get up at five, I can study for an hour or two before the kids wake up. And then we can just go with the rest of the day. And that’s how it went for a while. A lot of early mornings and late nights probably got us through that. And it was a really good experience. I’m really glad that I went back and got my bachelor’s degree. I got my degree in English language and literature. So now this time everything that I was doing was reading. And I had such high hopes. Oh, we’re going to read some Shakespeare. I’m going to read some of the greats. This is going to be amazing. I’m so excited. That’s what I wanted. I wanted to read some really good classics and have great conversations. Audrey: Yeah. Cadie: And that is not what happened at all. So I was highly disappointed in the education that I got for my actual degree. One of the things that was really, preached maybe is not the best word, but it seems like the most fitting word to use, one of the ideas that was most heavily preached to us as students was postmodernism. Everything was falling apart. Humanity was awful. There was nothing that was going to get any better. So it was just, do whatever you have to do to survive and get yourself on top. That’s the goal. Audrey: And there’s nothing that’s objectively true. Cadie: No. And you could argue, just do whatever works. And so when we would read books together, we were told never to go back and look at the author, never to research the author, or to consider the time in which that person lived, but just to take the book, open it up, and just start shredding it. Deconstruction was the thing. Just deconstruct, deconstruct. And so any bit of beauty that was ever in this book or intended to be in the book was gone. Audrey: Yeah. Wow. Cadie: And it was soul searing. It was a horrible way to go through reading books. I felt awful about myself. I felt awful about the world. I would look at things that my fellow students would say in these forums, these conversations that we would have, and it was just heartbreaking to see that any argument always came down to men are evil, white people are awful, and every system is designed to make you fail. And I just didn’t believe that. But you surround yourself with that for two years and it just starts to eat into your psyche. It’s very degrading.   How She Found Audrey Again Cadie: And so I remember at one point I had completely forgotten about you, Audrey. I’m sorry, but I totally forgot about you during this time. Audrey: That’s perfectly fine. That’s funny. Cadie: But I had forgotten I had read with you until we read a play, A Doll’s House. Audrey: A Doll’s House. Yeah. I can’t remember the author. Do you remember the author? Cadie: I had it written down. Audrey: Oh, Henrik Ibsen. Cadie: Ibsen. That’s right. So we read the play A Doll’s House by Henrik Ibsen, and I remembered, oh my gosh, I remember this play because I read it with that lady Audrey in Books You’ll Love. And so at that point I was maybe six months away from finishing my degree, and it’s like, I’ve got to go see what that lady said about Ibsen and A Doll’s House. Surely it got better than this sludge that I’m working through with this college class. This is just terrible. So I went back and I found Books You’ll Love, and by that point you had started The Mission Driven Mom and it was just getting going. So I found some of the information I was looking for about Ibsen, and then I told my husband, when I finish this degree, I really want to go and study with Audrey. I want to go to her online academy. And he was much more supportive of me and was like, if that’s what you want to do, we can make that happen. And I graduated in April of 2020 and I think I started with you in May of 2020 at the Mission Driven Mom. And that was a very eye opening experience because it was all those things I thought that I was going to get in my degree program, but it was not at the college, it was at your academy. I was like, we’re reading great books, I feel really good about what I’m reading, I come away ennobled, these authors are being honored for the good work that they have done, or we are looking at the things that they have written that are not correct and we’re able to objectively see why they are wrong. But I am coming away a better person after having experienced these books. And so that was, it’s a long story, but it took several years, and eventually I made my way back to MDM.   What Level One Gave Her Audrey: Yeah. So you were in it for the more intellectual piece, the academic, the reading. So with that expectation, did you feel disappointed that there were some children’s novels or that we vet the content so much and it’s just selections from different books? Or how did you feel about that? Cadie: No, actually in a lot of ways I appreciated it because I could see that you were trying to hone a skill. Like you were trying to give me a specific skill. And when I went through level one, I’m not sure how things are now, but when I went through level one, things were much more self paced. And I had an accountability partner, the most amazing lady. I loved my accountability partner going through level one. She did me so many great services. We would reach out to each other about once a month or once every two weeks and say, here’s our goal. We want to get through this much of the workbook. At the time there was a workbook that we had. So we want to get through this much of the workbook and the readings, and then we’re going to call each other and see how it went. And the two of us together, you had a celebration coming up that fall, and we wanted to finish before the celebration so that we could come. Audrey: That is pretty fast. Cadie: We went through it pretty fast. I want to say it was six months, somewhere in there. But I was so glad that we did because I felt like we were laser focused on, this is the skill that we’re trying to learn. These are the principles that we’re learning. This is how we’re implementing them. And it was a great blessing. And I think part of that came because I had just come out of my degree where I was used to having some deadlines, and I had already worked my schedule out with my family. That helped me be able to accomplish that goal so quickly. Audrey: Yeah. So what are a couple of your takeaways from level one? Cadie: You had created a card, there was a card that you had given out at one of the celebrations, but you had also created the 12 characteristics of a true principle. And that has stuck with me. I used that often. I used it very regularly, especially at that time. I still pull it out and use it and look at it to try to figure out, is this thing that I’m studying right now, is this a true principle? The main characteristic that has stuck with me is the win win. Is the thing that I’m doing right now creating a win win situation for everyone? If it’s not a win for everybody, then it’s not done yet. I have to keep working until everybody has won and feels good about it. And the other thing that was a huge takeaway from level one was your willing versus willful lesson. You compared C S Lewis to Nietzsche, and I have listened to that one probably a couple times a year because it made such an impact on me. This idea of, are you willing to let go of the things that you want, let go of the way that you think things need to be, to let God take over and move you where you need to be? Are you willing or are you willful? I had never considered my attitude in that way. Is this a willing attitude that I have right now, or is this a willful attitude? That made a huge impact on me, and it is something that I still think about regularly when I feel like I have a decision to make and I do not necessarily know which way to go. I think often about, am I being willing or willful right now?   Why Principles Mattered So Much Audrey: So what do you think about the whole emphasis on principles? Why do you feel like that matters? Cadie: Interestingly, I remember for years something had been niggling at me in the corner of my mind, and it was like, I do not understand when people say this word principle. I do not understand what they mean. Sometimes I hear a principle and it is just a one word thing, like forgiveness might be a principle, or service might be a principle. And then other people would say something and it would be this big long phrase and that was a principle, and it was like, I do not understand. Help me understand. What are we talking about? And when I went back to MDM and I saw that principles was such a heavy emphasis in the academy, I was like, this is the thing that I need because I do not understand what people are talking about when they are talking about principles. I feel like they are important, but I do not know what they are. And so it helped me so much to come into MDM and start studying, looking for principles in the things that I read. And the principles being, what is a truth that is in this book, whether it is fiction, nonfiction, biography, whatever. What is a truth that I can find here that I can then take into my life and apply to my circumstances that will make my life or my family’s life better? And the fact that we practiced that across so many genres of literature was really valuable to me.   The Princess and the Pea Example Cadie: Fairytales have been something that I have been thinking about recently because I have been listening to someone who is talking about C S Lewis and Tolkien as myth writers. They were great at telling story through myth. How we have this idea that a myth is a lie, but really they would say a myth is a way of telling the truth that is different than any other way of being able to tell the truth. And so I think about that with fairytales. Fairytales tell a truth that is hard to convey in any other way. I was thinking about this with The Princess and the Pea. We were just talking about it the other day, me and my husband. I will give you an example maybe of what it was like to read something like that from my degree perspective. You have this queen. Her son, the prince, is wanting to marry this princess. And so she puts her through this test where she puts the pea underneath all of these mattresses and she wants to know, can this princess feel if there is a pea underneath all of these mattresses. And the princess wakes up the next morning and she is all black and blue and she says, I have been all beat up. There is something underneath my mattresses. And the queen says, oh, you really are a princess because you could feel that pea underneath all those mattresses. A lot of people would be like, this is the most ridiculous story. This girl is such a wuss. She is full of drama. She is not someone you would want to have marry your son. But if you look at it through the lens of myth, and that it is telling the truth, if the princess, her role in a fairytale is to be the virtue, she is the symbol of virtue. She is the symbol of what is good. Her job is to be the compass for everybody else to know what is right and what is wrong. And this pea that is underneath these mattresses is something that is wrong. It is something that is bad, and she can sense it. Even underneath all those layers of comfort, she can sense that something is wrong. And so this test that the queen puts her through to see if she is a good match for the prince, the prince’s job is to defend all of that truth. He cannot defend it if he does not have the compass to point him to what is good and what is wrong. There is an equal match between a prince and a princess, and they each have their job. That is a myth to teach us about the roles of men and women. They each have a really important role, and it is okay that they have a different role. So the woman’s role, she points to what is virtuous, what is good, and the man’s role is to defend that. And we need each other. And so that idea of, okay, I just learned a principle from The Princess and the Pea. There is a principle here about, are there gender roles? I think there are. And should we notice them? Should we give them any credence, any credibility? I think we should. How do I apply this in my life? I know what my role is in my marriage. My job is to seek out virtue and to notice when it is around and to notice when it is not there, and to be this compass for my family. That is my job. And so I have to be careful about the things that I take into my mind. I have to be careful about the things that I think about, that I dwell on, because my role is to help us discern what is good and what is virtuous. Audrey: Wow, that is so beautiful.   How Level Two and Level Three Changed Her Audrey: Tell us a little bit about building a principle centered home and life. What difference has it made for you to have this understanding about principles and this ability to discern them better? How has it changed things for you and your family? Cadie: When we were in level two, we read The Ox Bow Incident, and that book had a really great impact on me, partly because of when we were reading it. It is about cattle rustling, and some cows have been stolen and this town has been having problems with rustlers for a while. And so they mount up a posse and they go and they find the guy that rustled these cattle and they administer justice, in their own idea. And I do not want to spoil the book for people, because it is a fantastic book. But when I read that book, we were discussing mob mentality. And I think January 6th had just happened like a couple of weeks before. We had just seen a bunch of riots happening all across the country during that summer of COVID and all of those things. We had seen a lot of mob mentality happening in real life. And so I have my book and I went to the back and I wrote down, I found 11 characteristics of a mob. And when I saw what the characteristics of a mob were, I started to really check myself when I would start feeling very passionate about something, because mobs are always very passionate. Passion is not a bad thing, but it is all about how are we directing it, and are we allowing our passion for something to turn off our ability to think and to be objective and to search for truth first. I think to a degree it comes back to what I was saying about being this compass within your family. I think women are the compass of the family. And so we have to watch where our passions lead us. Those passions are important. They are valuable. We need them. But we need to make sure that we are directing them in the proper place. As far as things that we read in level three that really helped me, human action laws. Talking about the human action laws, which basically was just understanding that everybody does what they are doing for a reason. You may not agree with the reason, you may not like the reason, but they are not just out of control acting. People do things on purpose for a reason. They are motivated by something. Every action is motivated by something. And when I learned about that and the human action laws, it helped me understand that I need to build better bridges with people. That people can have a difference of belief or a difference of opinion than what I have, but there is something driving that and motivating that, and I need to try to understand what that is. And it helps me have greater compassion for other people and to connect with them more. It helps me to recognize, this is a person who at the very base of themselves is probably acting because they have heard some principle, some truth, that is motivating them to act, but that truth has been twisted in some way. So how can I get back to understanding that they are motivated by some truth somewhere back in there. Something is motivating them. Where is it that we finally meet? What is the truth that they are acting on, that if it is a truth, then I should be willing to act on as well? How do we get all the way back to that first principle so that then we can build off of the first principle and come to a position that will work for all of us, that will give us that win win situation? That was pretty huge for me in level three.   Her Charter School Project Audrey: Talk to us about what you have done since MDM, this big major project, your C to B that you were involved with. How did you get involved? Why did you get involved? How did the education you had had make a difference? And where is the project now? Cadie: It is a pretty incredible story. I feel like a very miraculous story, and my involvement in it at all still feels miraculous, that I was even a part of it. So the project that I took on, I think it happened because I asked God for it. We were reading the book Christie. It is about this girl, 19 or 20 years old, and she goes up into the Appalachian Mountains and she teaches school to some people up there, and it is an incredible story. In some ways it reminded me somewhat of this area that I live in. Because where I live, we are pretty rural. We have a lot of ranching families, and for many of those families, for their kids to be able to go to high school, it can often mean that they have to move away and live in town for those four years of high school. And I had just talked to somebody who was saying, our oldest is getting to the point where we are needing to decide, are we going to keep her out here with us on the ranch and kind of homeschool through that experience, or are we going to send her to live with some friends in town? That happens pretty regularly for these families. And it just reminded me a little bit of the people in the book Christie. And I just fell in love with this idea of having a school, and I really wanted to have a school that promoted virtue and goodness in the students. And so I had just been thinking about Christie for a long time. And a lot of things happened in 2020. It was the Christmas of 2020. I stumbled upon Hillsdale College K through 12 schools. I just came across it on my phone, and I saw that and I was like, that would be cool if we could start a little charter school. And so I emailed them and I said, can you tell me what it would look like? What do I need to do to start one of these schools? And the list they sent back was gargantuan, and I was like, that is not going to happen. I knew one person in my community who had started a charter school, and I sent her that list as a gag. If you ever wanted to start another charter school, here is one we could do. And she was like, yeah, that is funny. And time passed, things moved on, and two years later she reached out to me and said, hey, did you know that there was a group of people from Elko that went and toured a Hillsdale school in Idaho? Were you part of that group? And I said, no, I had no idea that anyone was going to tour a Hillsdale school in Idaho. I totally would have gone. And she said, here is a contact for this group. Maybe you could reach out and just see what they have to say. So I called the number she gave me. I got an answering machine and I left a message. And while I was waiting to get a call back from this person, I learned a little bit more about who he was and his political career in Nevada and that he had run against Harry Reid. And I was like, this guy will never call me back. He is an important person. What was I thinking? And probably about a week after that, I was sitting in my living room doing morning time with my kids. We were reading a story, and I get a call back from this man. And I ran into my bathroom because that was the only quiet place I could find. And I answered the phone and he said, I am so glad you called. We would love to have your help. Go to this place at this time, get the information for our next meeting, and we will meet you there. And I said, okay. And so when I went into that first board meeting, I only knew one other person in the room and there were probably about 12 people. These were all various people from our community who had done incredible things. We had county commissioners, people who owned businesses, people who had made a career in education. These were people who had a lot of influence and a lot of background in what we were doing. And every meeting for the first six months, I walked in just scared to death because I was like, I have no idea what we are even doing really, or talking about, but I am just going to keep showing up. And I learned so much about the process of what it would be to start a charter school. I was very ignorant. When we first started, I was like, six months, we will get this thing open in six months. It will be great. And again, I learned quite a bit. It took us two and a half years to finally get the charter school open, and it just opened a couple months ago, August of 2025. That is why I say to me, it is very miraculous that I even was involved in this group and was in the room at all. But I truly think it happened because I asked God, I want a school. I really want a school that teaches kids about virtue. I have seen what postmodernism does in education. This is a horrible thing. I do not want children growing up with this. Can we get a school that teaches virtue? And my role on the school board for the charter school was, I had the most experience at the time with classical education and children because I had classically educated my children their entire education. And so I could speak to the more classical elements of what a Hillsdale K through 12 charter school was intended to be. And so I could help inform on that level what was going on. It became my role over time, and everybody on the board did everything, everybody was pitching in wherever they could, but generally my role was to do some of the community relations, public relations. I did several interviews on the radio here locally with another one of our board members. We did community events where we would try to educate the community on what a classical charter school was and what that meant. And I was also the liaison between our charter school board and our public school district board. And it was an incredible experience.   The Resume Story and the Value of Motherhood Cadie: One of the things that I know we talk about a lot at the academy is when you have something that you are wanting to do, take your family with you. Have your family be involved in the mission work that you are doing. And I have to tell you this story because it is an important story. I struggled a lot with not feeling very qualified to be part of this board. And I remember we were turning in an application and we needed to have everybody’s resume on the board, and I was like, I do not have a resume. I have little kids. I am a stay at home mom. I do not have a resume. And I was really having a freak out moment over this stupid resume. It feels dumb now when I look back at it, but at the time it was a big deal to me. And I remember saying to myself over and over again, you are not a professional. I am not a professional. I do not have anything to put on here to convince anyone why I should be on this board. I have no experience that is meaningful to anybody. And I remember praying about it that night and asking God, what am I supposed to do? I am freaking out here about this stupid application. And I remember the answer that I got was, I did not make you to be a professional. And I was surprised. That took me back, and I was like, I feel like I need that right now though. And so in the months that came, we held a community event where we had basically a big information meeting for anybody in the community who would want to come and learn about this school. We had a gentleman who was very gracious, who was running a Hillsdale school. He was the principal of a Hillsdale school. He was willing to come and speak to our community and tell them about, this is the school that we have in Idaho, this is how it is going, you could have the same thing in Elko. And as we were putting together the program, the board asked if there was a student who would be willing to recite a poem at this meeting. And I was like, that is me. I am the one with the students. So I went home and I asked my son, he was 12 at the time, would you be willing to memorize a poem to recite at this meeting? And he was like, I guess. He does not like memorizing things, but I was like, could you just, it would be great. And so he memorized the poem If by Rudyard Kipling. Audrey: So good. Cadie: It is such a great poem. And he had been working on it and he just could not say it correctly when we practiced. He could not get through it without messing up a little bit. And so he was nervous when it came time for him to get up and give that poem. And I told him, you are going to be great. It is going to be fine. You have got this. And he went up there and he had never said that poem so well. He did not make a single mistake. There were like 80 people in there watching him, and he got up and said that poem and it was excellent. He did so well. I was so proud of him. And when our speaker got up to talk about the schools, he stopped and he said, but wait, I want to tell that boy what a good job he did on that poem. He said, we have kids memorize that poem in our school, and it is a requirement that they pass off that poem. And he said, that was one of the best recitations I have heard of that poem. You did such a great job. And so at the end I went up to meet him, and I had my little lanyard on with my little name tag that said board member. And I walked up to him and I was there with my son, and he complimented my son again, and then he looked at me and he said, you are the mom, aren’t you? And I said, yes, I am the mom. I am not the professional. I am not the board member. I am the mom. This is my job. And it was such an incredible experience to me of the value of being a mother. This project, this school, was valuable and important to me, but that was not my job. I was not made to be a professional. I was made to be the mom. And moms have such a power for good in this world. And I loved that when I came to MDM, MDM celebrated moms. It gave me an opportunity to do this big project that was something I never would have done without MDM. But first it helped me understand, you have an important role to play as a mom. That it should not be undervalued, and you should not undercut yourself because you are just the mom. Like moms are really important, and they are the ones that get a lot of the great things done. They are the compass for the home. And nowhere else was I hearing this. My degree was not going to tell me that I was valuable to the community, to society as a whole, because I was a mother. No one else was saying that. And so to come to a place where I could study and feel so much value in what I wanted, my dream was to be a stay at home homeschool mom, and it helped me be better at that. And then to go on and do some other things, which I am very proud of my school, I love it. I love being there. My kids and I go now, we volunteer, we go in on Tuesdays and we spend a couple hours every Tuesday at the school helping the little kids. And I love it. It is great. But my kids are with me when I do it. And they are my focus at this time in my life. And I am really grateful for that because there are times and seasons, it is not always going to be this way. But I did not leave them behind to fulfill some big project that I wanted to do. They came with me and they were a part of it with me the whole time. And so has my husband. It has been a family affair, and it has been great.   What the Project Did for Her Personally Audrey: How do you feel that committing to that project and seeing it through, what did it do for you personally? Cadie: I think one of the things that I learned about myself through that project was that if the Lord asked me to do something, I would say yes. Even if it was hard. That school was extremely difficult. There were moments that were very exhausting and hard, and it was just perseverance over and over again. We would try, we would try, we would try. We met with a lot of rejection, especially at the beginning. We met with plenty of pushback. Some people were very concerned about what a classical school would mean and what it would look like. And so it had to be learning how to communicate with people that you did not agree with. And I am still not great at it. I wish I were better, but it gave me a lot of opportunity to practice. But ultimately what I learned about myself is, if the Lord asks me to do something, I will do it. And I know I said that I asked for that school, but I asked at the beginning. By the end, he was asking me to finish, because I did not want to finish. It was hard. But with him, I was able to stick it through and we were able to finish and we were able to get the school to opening. We are still early on and we are still a growing organization. We still have a lot to learn, but I am so grateful that when the kids come in, they have a place to come where they are being taught to be honest, to persevere, to serve each other, to finish their work. They can do this. They can do hard things. And they are told that all the time when they come in. You can do hard things. We believe in you. We encourage you. Be courteous. Be kind to the people around you. It feels good to be in a space like that. But ultimately, how did that school change me? It was to know that I really can do all things through Christ. Audrey: That is beautiful. I think it is so ironic too, that it is such an open handed gift of servant leadership because your children will not even ever attend it. Cadie: Yeah, that is true. At the beginning I thought that they would be able to attend, but over time we realized that in order to open and to be financially solvent through these beginning years, the school would have to open as a kindergarten through third grade only and add one grade level every year. And all of my kids were past third grade. So we are continuing to homeschool, but I love having them come with me when we go volunteer in the school. It is a great opportunity.   Cadie’s Encouragement to Moms Audrey: What would you want to say to moms out there who might be listening? Cadie: For anyone who is listening, I would say, as women we have an incredible influence on the lives around us, and I do not think we realize how big that influence is. I still do not really realize how big my influence is and often struggle with really considering that I have much of an influence. But I know that it is there. It is not unlike the story that I told you about The Princess and the Pea. As the women, our role is to find goodness and virtue and to point it out. If I could give any encouragement to women in general, it would be guard your marriages. Keep that relationship sacred. Respect it. Show respect to your husband, and be grateful for the support that he lends to you, and lend him support. Because marriages that fail really impact your children so much. So if you want to have a really positive impact for your children, guard your marriage. Show your kids what a healthy and happy marriage looks like, and give them that gift.   Why She Recommends MDM Audrey: What is the last thing you would say to anyone who is considering the academy or coming to the event, getting involved in some way with the programs at the Mission Driven Mom? Cadie: I would have to say, again, I have had a lot of different educational experiences. I was the homeschooled kid. I was someone who has gone to college. I have helped with a charter school. I am all about education, wherever you can get education. What I would say about MDM is, I never got a better education anywhere than in the time that I spent studying at MDM. That was the most foundational in helping me realize the good that I could do in the world. And when I graduated from college, I had this belief that when I graduated I would feel competent, like I could go out and do something in my community. And that did not happen. If anything, it was the exact opposite of that. I felt like I did not have any tools to be able to serve people. Even if I were to get a job teaching in the literature department, I did not feel like I had the tools to do that. MDM is an online academy. You are not going to get an accredited degree from there. But if you want an actual, true, solid education, go to MDM, because you will finish and you will feel that you can go out and do some good in the world. And I would never have taken on the charter school if I had not done MDM first. I would never have done it. Because I had some of that background that helped guide me in knowing where I could find true principles. I knew that I could find principles of education that would help guide what the school would be. I knew I could find principles of relationships that would help guide my marriage to be the best that it could be. I got actionable tools that helped me to live a great life. And so if you are wanting a good education, it is not always about the career at the end. Sometimes it is just being educated in how to live well. And I think MDM does that so well for moms. And I just love and appreciate you, Audrey, for what you gave me because that was what the academy did for me. And I am so grateful because I know it has not been an easy road for you either to keep this up and going. And it is a huge gift and a huge blessing to have been a part of it. And I just want to thank you for that. Audrey: Oh, thank you. Yes, you are right, it has not all been easy, but such a joy. I have met some of the most incredible people in my life, you included. And it is a joy and a privilege. It is just like your experience with the charter school, there are highs and lows, but looking back, boy, so glad you did it. Cadie: Yeah. Audrey: So glad you did it. Absolutely. And you come out of it such a different person. So thank you, Cadie, so much for everything that you have shared. You are such an inspiration. I hope that moms will take to heart what you have said and really understand their incredible worth and the need that the world has for them to rise to the occasion in their motherhood and be the best mothers and wives they can be. It is so critical for all of us. So anyway, such a joy to talk to you. Thank you so much for being with us. Cadie: Thank you, Audrey. It was great. I appreciate it. Love you, friend. Audrey: You too. If you want, I can turn this into a polished downloadable document next.

We are living in a confusing culture.  As mothers, we feel the weight of it in a unique way because we are not just navigating it for ourselves. We are leading children who will inherit whatever kind of world we help build. If you have ever wondered how to lead your family with confidence when everything feels unstable, this episode is for you.  In this conversation, we unpack: Why we are living in what Robert Greenleaf called an age of the anti-leader The leadership vacuum in our culture and why education is not preparing people to lead or follow wisely Why the real enemy is not evil people or broken systems but fuzzy thinking How your home is a small society and you are already leading it Listen to episode 143 of The Mission Driven Mom Podcast, “Leading Your Family with Principles” here or wherever you listen to your podcasts.  ______________________________________________________________   Introduction Welcome back to the podcast. I amAudrey Rindlisbacher, author of the Mission Driven Life and founder of the Mission Driven Mom. Now you and I both know that we are living in a very confusing, contradictory culture, and that mothers especially feel the weight of that every day because we are not only taking on the job of mothering, and we do not just have that responsibility going on, but we have the weight of what we were not given educationally and the perceptions that are out there about mothers in the culture. The feminist movement and all the other things, besides which it is declining, and all the things. And so if you have ever wondered, like I have so many times, how you are supposed to lead your family with confidence when everything is unstable, then this episode is going to be for you. We are going to dive into that.   Moms Want a Better World Now, I have said this before. I am going to say it again. We as moms want a better world. Now, maybe everybody does, but we have this special string connected to us called our child, and that child is going to inherit the world that we leave behind. And so we feel an added measure of responsibility and motivation to try to make the world a better place. We know that this is a confusing culture, and we know that it lacks proper leadership, and that is one of the major problems. We are struggling to navigate it. We worry about what is going on and how to build the good society, and leadership is a big part of that. I want to talk to you for a minute today about some things that several individuals said about the concept of servant leadership, how servant leadership is lacking, why it is lacking, why it is the answer, and what you and I can do about it.   Robert Greenleaf and the Crisis of Leadership As moms, Robert Greenleaf was a huge mover in this kind of modern day movement of bringing back this concept of servant leadership. He had an organization and one of the most popular books called Servant Leadership. He researched, it is the definitive book, you could say that, about this concept. And he defined the problem in a way that I find very ironic because it is the problem that I keep talking about, and he says it really well. He says, alas, we live in the age of the anti leader and our vast educational structure devotes very little care to nurturing leaders or to understanding followership. This is also something very fascinating that he focuses on in his book. We have a responsibility to be leaders, but also to be good followers and to be trained to know who to follow and how to follow them, and that both of those skills and abilities are necessary to have the kind of culture that we want. He says, if there is any influence, formal education seems to discourage such pursuits. Educators argue, especially, I believe, that such preparation is implicit in general education. So educators claim that they teach people leadership, but they actually do not. He says, if that is true, how can it be that we are in a crisis of leadership in which vast numbers of quote educated people make gross errors in choosing whose leadership to follow, and in which there is so little incentive for able and dedicated servants to take the risks of asserting leadership. If we really, in our educational systems, are teaching people how to be good followers and how to be servant leaders, then why are we in this conundrum today. His point is we are not doing that, and that is a key part of the problem. The conclusion I reach is that educators are avoiding the issue when they refuse to give the same care to the development of servant leaders as they do to doctors, lawyers, ministers, teachers, engineers, and scholars. And he is right. Leadership is one of the most important things. Leadership is everything. Leadership makes or breaks us, and it is a vital skillset that should be taken as seriously as a medical practice, or as judges and attorneys, or any other major ability that is trained in individuals. He continues. Even schools of administration give scant attention to servant leadership. I have spent a great deal of time and energy trying to persuade educators to accept the obligation, and I am certain that generally they recognize neither the obligation nor the opportunity. Thus far, in my experience, they appear unpersuadable. An occasional gifted teacher will take some initiative, but the institutions rarely sanction the effort. The outlook for better leadership in our leadership poor society is not encouraging. Amen.   The Leadership Vacuum in Our Culture And that is at the root. We talked about this in one of the episodes recently about hacking at the branches or hacking at the root. Servant leadership, there is a vacuum. There is almost no good leadership out there. This is why servant leadership is a big chunk of like half of our focus in level three in the academy, because it is a skillset we desperately need. This is a problem. We see this problem. If we were going to say, we look out on our society, we look at the nonsense going on social media, we see all of the, look, I try to go to the movies and I look at what is in the theater and over half of it just looks like junk. It just looks like, why. It is not going to lift me, it is not going to elevate me. It is probably not going to teach me anything. Now, maybe I am making too quick a judgment and maybe there is more that I can gain from some of these things that I turn away from. But frankly, there is much in our society that is not worth consuming, and there is much that gets put out in the name of entertainment that good leadership would quell. We need people in all industries, in all parts of society, leading us closer to truth and goodness and beauty, infusing virtue back into our culture, if that is the kind of culture that we long for. And as mothers, we have a part. We have a very important role to play in this.   You Are Not Powerless And I know that we often sit at home and feel powerless and think society is what it is, and I am not a leader and I am never going to be one, and I am not going to hold the reins of government, so there is nothing I can do. And actually, we can do everything. And I am going to tell you why that is the case.   Who Is Holding Us Back So later on, Greenleaf has this to say, which the first time I read this, I was floored. I read it and reread it. I shared it with people that I knew. I put sections of this book in level three because it is, anyway, just listen to what he has to say. So we are looking at the society, right, and we are super dissatisfied and we are like, what is going on in our culture. And we can maybe have the insight to recognize that the vacuum of leadership is a core root problem. But then we might ask this question, which is the question he asks. Okay, if this is a situation we find ourselves in, then who is the enemy who is holding back more rapid movement to the better society that is reasonable and possible with available resources. So we have all this technology, we have all this ability. What is holding us back. Why can we not get there. We will not be a perfect society, but we could be a way better society. So why are we not arriving. Who is responsible. He goes on. For the mediocre performance of so many of our institutions, who is standing in the way of a larger consensus on the definition of the better society and paths to reaching it. Not evil people. Not stupid people. Not apathetic people. Not the quote system. Not the protestors, the disruptors, the revolutionaries, or the reactionaries. Are you surprised by what he says. That is quite a claim to make. That is pretty surprising that he is calling this out. He sees the problem. He is obviously trying to do something about it. He is writing books, he is running organizations, he is training people. He is saying we have a vacuum of leadership. We have a big, huge problem here. We have everything that we need to build a better society. We have natural laws and rights and a wonderful constitution and all the things. What is holding us back. What is keeping us from doing it. And it is not these things. The evil, stupid, apathetic people, or the system, or the protestors, the disruptors. And he says part of the reason for that is because until we get to utopia, which we may never get there, those people will always exist in society. They cannot be the reason. They cannot be what is stopping us, because they will always be part of society. He says no. Here is what it is.   The Real Enemy Is Fuzzy Thinking He goes on. This is so mind blowing. Moms, the real enemy is fuzzy thinking. This reminds me of this really awesome article by Mortimer Adler that I love, where he talks about how our inability to think clearly, to reason things out, to think in terms of principle, is at the heart of most of the problems that we find. And this is a guy who has done his homework and is the leading expert in this field, and he has brought it down to wrong thinking. Just like we talked about a couple episodes ago, how we changed your thinking about being a people pleaser, just by identifying one principle. And so the real enemy to the good society is fuzzy thinking. He goes on. Fuzzy thinking on the part of good, intelligent, vital people. That is you and I. That is just the truth. We are good, vital, intentional, intelligent people who want a better, more virtuous world. So we are, and it is our fuzzy thinking that is the problem. It is keeping us from having the leadership that we need to have that would bring about a better society. Let me read that sentence again and finish it out. The real enemy is fuzzy thinking on the part of good, intelligent, vital people and their failure to lead and to follow servants as leaders. Our inability to identify the people who we should truly follow and champion, who can lead us to a better world, and our unwillingness to gain the ability to think clearly, to be true servant leaders and to lead, is the problem. The people that can do it, that do not, are the problem. Too many settle for being critics and experts. There is too much intellectual wheel spinning. Too much retreating into quote research. Too little preparation for and willingness to undertake the hard and high risk tasks of building better institutions in an imperfect world. Too little disposition to see the problem as residing in here, and not out there. I am going to talk to you about that in just a minute. In short, the enemy to the better society that we all long for is strong natural servants who have the potential to lead but do not lead, or who choose to follow a non servant. They suffer. Society suffers. And so it may be in the future. This is quite a little lecture, quite a hand slapping that we have had from Robert Greenleaf, but I absolutely agree with him.   The Only Way to Change a Society You and I have the potential to know how to follow the right people and to become the leaders that we could be. And our inability to think in terms of truths and principles, our fuzziness about what really needs to be done, as I say in the Seven Laws of Life mission, bringing principled solutions to real world problems, being mission driven servant leaders, is the problem. Greenleaf also says the only way to change a society is to produce people, enough people, who will change it. This reminds me of something that Jordan Peterson teaches often. He spent many years thinking and pondering and studying about communism, especially as it played out in the far east nations like China and Russia. And he kept asking himself, why. Why. Why did this happen. How do we stop it from happening again. And he went through all the books and he had all the conversations and he thought and pondered endlessly until finally he came to one very simple truth. And that was that the only way to stop it from ever happening again was to produce people who would stop it from ever happening again. To have more Ten Booms, to have more William Wilberforces. And that is why in the Mission Driven Life, I talk about how ordinary people can do extraordinary things. Because you and I feel very ordinary, but we can do extraordinary things, and we can be servant leaders, and we must be. And I am going to tell you how to start in just a minute.   The Problem Starts In Here Greenleaf goes on to say this as well. The servant, that is you and I striving to be servant leaders, views any problem in the world as in here inside themselves. That is what he means, inside oneself, and not out there. He says this goes back to our principle with the boundaries in the recent podcast, right. We thought the problem was out there and everybody was just giving us a hard time. And then we said, okay, maybe I should just put up more fences. And then we realized, actually, if I will change my nature, if I will live according to principles, good, solid principles of boundaries, then things will just change. He goes on. If a flaw in the world is to be remedied, to the servant, the process of change starts in themselves, in the servant, not out there. This is a difficult concept for the busy, modern person. The busy modern woman. The busy modern mom.   Your Family Is a Little Society Now I want to bring this home, because I have been talking for the last few minutes about the big picture of the culture and the society and all the things that feel so nebulous and out of our control. But guess what. Your family is a little society. If you take all the big problems and questions that are out there in the world and you think and ponder for a minute about your little home, you will recognize that almost everything is reflected in the small society of the family. The leaders. The rules. The laws. The choice and consequence. The relationships. The negotiations. So many of the things that we have to do as a society, we also have to do in our homes. And you are a leader right now. You are a leader in the little society of your family. And so since you are the leader, I want to ask you, how is it going. What kind of world are you creating in your home, and maybe even more importantly, in your own head and in your own heart. Leadership is always happening. It is just either good leadership or bad leadership. It is either servant leadership or it is selfish narcissism. And since we are already leaders, we owe it to ourselves and we owe it to our families, and we owe it to the society that we now govern to be the best leaders we can be. And so everything that Robert Greenleaf was talking about applies to you and I today. Right now. Who are those individuals, those mothers, those women, that are going to change our society by changing the societies in our homes, starting with ourselves. He says that we need natural leaders who have the potential to be servant leaders. That is you.   Servant Leadership Requires Clear Thinking You have the potential to be a servant leader, and I know that you are already doing some of that. I know that you adore your family. I know that you try to serve them. I know that you try to put them first. But this is like so many other things. We hear words like servant leadership and we think we understand. We think we know. We think we get it. We think that it means doing more of this or that. But until we slow down and think, until we get rid of the fuzzy thinking and we get into the principled thinking, it is going to be very difficult to course correct properly, to understand what actually is going well, what is not going well, and how we can course correct to live more truth in our homes. And of course, how is this best done. It is best done through principles, of course.   Leadership Is Character in Action Another book that I love is called The Servant. That one is by James Hunter. It is a beautiful analogy that teaches some really fantastic leadership principles. And he says that leadership is very simple. It is one phrase. Leadership is character in action. We have been talking about character this month. We have been talking about Stephen Covey. Remember that he said that there are basic principles of effective living, and that people can only experience true success and enduring happiness as they learn and integrate these basic principles into their character. That is what the character ethic is. And if character is everything in leadership, and character is developed through integrating principles into our nature, then we have our marching orders. We know what we need to do. As James Hunter says, you need to gain the skill for identifying the principle and moving it from your head. So you are going to get rid of your fuzzy thinking and learn to identify them, and then gain the skills to move those principles from your head to your heart, to where you have true understanding and conversion to that truth, and into your habits so that it becomes a way of life. It is just who you are. It is just what you do. It is how you talk. It is how you live. It is how you lead. It is how you govern those little people in your home.   The Only Thing We Are Teaching Is a Principle And of course, Jack Barsin, who is a brilliant guy that I absolutely love, teaches all kinds of incredible things. He said, and he is right, and I could give you a million other quotes around this. He said that the only thing we are teaching anybody is a principle. And why would he say that. Because it is true, because there are a million ways that we can live out any principle. That is why you give them the truth and then the truth makes them free. So how can we do that in the first place. How can we teach people principles if we do not know them ourselves. How can we lead with them. How can our leadership be character in action if we are not truth seekers, if we have not become experts in our own life, if we are not discerners of truth, if we cannot build the small societies in our own heads and in our own homes based on true principles. When you do this, it changes everything, because when there is proper leadership, everybody thrives.   Invitation to the Free Class In the next week, I am teaching a free class called How to Stop Feeling Powerless and Become the Expert in your own life. And I really want you there. It is the culmination of what we have been talking about for the last few weeks. It is going to be the deep dive that you really need. It is going to be a springboard for you to stop that fuzzy thinking, to start to dig into that character ethic, to begin to understand these ethereal, abstract things called principles and harness them. Send your lasso out and grab them. Identify them, write them as actionable, and put them to practice in your own home. So if you are ready to stop guessing, if you are ready to stop having other people tell you what to do, if you want to lead with confidence, then please join me. Register at the link below in the description, and I will see you there.

Are you exhausted from people pleasing? Do you feel resentful, unappreciated, or emotionally drained from always saying yes? In this episode, Audrey Rindlisbacher, author of The Mission Driven Life and founder of The Mission Driven Mom, reveals why people pleasing is not a personality flaw and not a boundary problem. It is a thinking problem. If you have been told you just need better boundaries, stronger scripts, or the courage to say no more often, this conversation will completely reframe how you see yourself and others. Through a powerful story from Boundaries by Cloud and Townsend, Audrey explains why tactics alone fail and why true personal power comes from principle based living. You will learn: Why people pleasing often leads to depression instead of joy The difference between tactics and actionable principles Why most boundary advice does not create lasting change The foundational principle that transforms relationships How treating yourself properly changes how others treat you Why character development always outperforms personality techniques At the heart of healthy boundaries is this truth: you cannot teach others how to treat you properly until you know how to treat yourself properly. When you shift from scripts and strategies to internal character work, everything changes. You stop negotiating for approval and start living from truth. You stop reacting and start leading. If you are a mom who feels overwhelmed by demands, decision fatigue, or ungrateful responses, this episode will give you clarity and direction. Make sure you are on our email list to register for the upcoming free training where Audrey will teach you how to uncover actionable principles for your specific struggles and start living them immediately. www.themissiondrivenmom.com Subscribe for more principle based leadership, motherhood development, and character driven personal growth. ______________________________________________________________________________ AI GENERATED TRANSCRIPT INTRODUCTION Welcome back to the podcast. I am Audrey Rindlisbacher, author of the Mission Driven Life and founder of the Mission Driven Mom. Today, I want you to know that people pleasing is not a personality flaw. It is not something that is wrong with you. It is a thinking problem. I am going to show you one principle and it is going to completely reframe how you relate to yourself and others without turning you into someone else. This is going to be really awesome. So I am going to start by reading you this story about Stan.   THE STORY ABOUT STAN Stan was confused. He read in the Bible and was taught in church that it was more blessed to give than to receive. But he found that this often was not true. He frequently wished people would have more consideration for his time and energy. Yet whenever someone wanted something from him, he would do it. He thought this was loving and he wanted to be a loving person. Finally, when the fatigue grew into depression, he came to see me. This is one of the authors telling this story as a therapist. When I asked what was wrong, Stan replied that he was quote loving too much. How can you love too much, I asked. I have never heard of such a thing. Oh, it is very simple, said Stan. I do far more for people than I should, and that makes me very depressed. Is that sad. But yeah. Ironically true. Do we as moms just want to say this sometimes, that we do more for people than we should and it makes us depressed. It is just so ironic. The therapist goes on. I am not quite sure what you are doing, I said, but it certainly is not love. The Bible says that true love leads to a blessed state and a state of cheer. Love brings happiness, not depression. If your loving is depressing you, it is probably not love. I do not see how you can say that, Stan replied. I do so much for everyone. I give and give. How can you say that I am not loving. I can say that because of the fruit of your actions, you should be feeling happy, not depressed. So he says he asked him to tell him some of the things that he did for people, and he learned a lot about his doing and sacrificing from Stan.   WHY THIS MATTERS FOR WOMEN AND MOMS Now, what is so interesting about this story is that I work with a lot of women, obviously, and often they will get into the academy, lets say, and just for everyones information, we do talk about boundaries, but not until near the end of level two. And it is near the end of level two for a very important reason, and that is because of a principle I am going to talk to you about in just a minute. So these women come in to level one and they do not just immediately learn about boundaries, but they are unhappy, they are unfulfilled, and they think they have a perception that other people in their life are causing the problem, that other people in their life need to be different. And that if those other people were different, then they would not have these problems. When they try to be really conscientious and honest, they start looking inside and being like, okay, maybe other people are not the problem. Maybe actually I am the problem and I am the problem because I need to have better boundaries. And that is what the world and people around me keep telling me. The problem is that you do not have good enough boundaries, and they expect to come into the academy and to increase their personal power immediately by being trained on boundaries, so sometimes they are disappointed. Then I do not teach them about boundaries right out the gate.   WHAT PEOPLE THINK BOUNDARIES ARE And then what I watch them do oftentimes is okay, she is not teaching me about boundaries and I am going to keep going with this academy because I think it would be a good thing. But in the meantime I am just going to tell everybody no, because that is what they think boundaries is. In other words, they think that boundaries is a whole bunch of fences, maybe really tall fences, maybe wrought iron, maybe stone, and you get those fences up as tall and as strong as possible and keep everybody off your property and then you will feel better. But boundaries are just lines drawn, and they can be subtle and even fences need gates, right. People need to be able to come and go.   TACTICS VERSUS PRINCIPLES So last week we were talking about tactics versus principles, and we were talking about character versus personality ethic and how the world has moved more and more in the direction, especially in the west, especially in America, more and more toward this personality ethic, tactic based way of being. And you can tell this in some of the things that go on. You need to do this neurolinguistic training. You need to brainwash yourself. You need to this, that, or the other. And it is not as if some of those things do not work. If they did not work, people would not use them. And it is not as if the people that promote those are bad or have bad intentions. We talked about this last week. It is just that those people do not understand that if you do not work on character first, that all the personality ethics in the world will not get you across the finish line. Eventually you will, in a crisis situation, it will come back to who you really are.   WHAT IS SOLID AND LASTING In todays world there is a lot of this language about being performative, and everything we do in society is just performative and it is not really who we are. We are just always playing a role. We are just always acting a part in this big play of life. But there are some things that are solid, that are lasting, that are meaningful, that we can lean on. These principles, these immutable truths, and integrating them into our basic being and developing our character is one of those things that we can depend on. Because when we become a certain kind of person by integrating those principles, as Covey talked about, that the integration of correct principles into our basic nature is what makes lasting success and happiness possible. That is what we want to do.   WHY STAN IS CONFUSED AND WHY MOMS GET EXHAUSTED Now, I want to tell you something even more fascinating. Stan is super confused. He is super unhappy. He is people pleasing like crazy. And you and I as mothers probably would not say it quite like Stan, that everybody needs to get off our back. But boy, when you are a mom of young kids, or you are a mom of adult kids, or you are a grandma, people need things from you a lot. And you are constantly in decision mode and trying to discern who to give what and when to say yes or no. And that decision exhaustion is real. And when people do not thank you a lot, in fact, when you, in your best intentions, try to help and then someone is ungrateful or angry or aggressive, it is devastating. I was teaching a workshop last night, the sneak peek for our Mothers of Creation event that is going to happen in the fall. And one of the women, we were talking about victim types and one of the women talked about a friend of hers who had a child do something that really disappointed her. And so she quote put herself to bed for three months. And so this is the point at which it could go. This is how far this can go. Like we can really turn our lives upside down because of what other people are doing, and we just do not want to do that. We just do not want to be at the mercy of other peoples decisions, and we do not want to be these people pleasers all the time. And it is really important to understand that truth is truth and truth can make you free. I am going to show you in just a minute how you will be on a completely different trajectory when I teach you this one principle. It will really start to get you on a different path if people pleasing is a problem for you or someone that you love and you are struggling because other people around you are not being grateful and they are asking too much from you. And your strategy so far has just been to say no a lot. What are you going to do.   THE BOUNDARIES BOOK AND WHY IT STILL LEAVES PEOPLE STUCK And remember we talked about how a lot of these current things, people do not have the education to be able to discern principles for themselves. The story that I told you is drawn from probably the most definitive source on boundaries. It is called Boundaries by Cloud and Townsend. And I think they are incredible. I am very grateful for their work. I think that they do incredible good in the world, and that they are very mission centered individuals that are really out there doing all kinds of good. But I want to make one point here about even the best source by people who are trying to be God centered and mission centered, who have incredible educations. Both of the authors have doctorate degrees and they have been doing this work for a very long time. In this big definitive book on boundaries, there is only one chapter that attempts to teach principles. It is actually only one section, I think maybe it is one chapter in one section of the book, and they call it the 10 Laws of Boundaries. They are good, solid truths in a sense, but they are actually just concepts, not principles. They are not actionable principles. For example, the story I just gave you was law number five, the Law of Motivation. But then they told the story of Stans people pleasing, and then they talked about how Stan was afraid, and he was motivated by his fear. We might be motivated by lots of other things. And so then they go on to share, they say some things that we could be afraid of and some things that could be motivating us, and then talk about how we need to have the right motivations. I am still at a bit of a loss. I still do not have an actionable principle. I still do not actually know what to do. This is why we have fine tuned this process and we not only teach the law of nature and that ancient framework and principles and how they are immutable truths, we learn how to write actionable principles because that is the only way you know what to do. Here is another one, the Law of Evaluation. There is a page or two description, still do not really know what to do, and I had to go back and read and reread these and then try to write my own principles around them and still struggled to do that. So even in the best source, with a million or more copies sold, being the definitive source, going around teaching all these workshops, they do a lot of good and they help a lot of people, but they are also really caught up in a lot of applications and tactics. And if they knew better how to write actionable principles for us and delineate those more clearly, we could think about our own applications.   THE MOST IMPORTANT PRINCIPLE ABOUT BOUNDARIES So the most important principle about boundaries that I have ever learned did not actually come directly from them, and when I share this principle with you, it will reframe, I hope, the way that you see yourself and the way that you see others and the way that you manage your people pleasing. Because at the very heart of boundaries, and there are a few other actionable principles we can flesh out around boundaries, and we do get to that eventually, and I am going to explain to you in a minute why we get to that only eventually in the academy, because boundaries are very simple. Boundaries are simply teaching other people how to treat you properly.   WHY BOUNDARIES REQUIRE TEACHING As human beings, we tend to test limits. We tend to push boundaries. We tend to want to get away with what we want to get away with, partly just because we are lazy and it is hard work to live with intention all the time. And it is hard work to treat people the way that we ought to treat them. And we do not want to have to do a job or a task or whatever the case might be. And so we do not treat others the way that they should be treated all the time, or even most of the time. And in order for us to have proper working relationships, we must teach each other how they need to treat us. And when we have done a good, thorough job of teaching other people how to treat us properly, then other people can choose whether or not they want to honor what we have taught them. And that teaching can happen bit by bit. It can happen informally. It happens in a million ways. It happens with looks and body language and words and actions. But when we understand that is what we are doing, that in order to have proper boundaries we have to teach other people, it is a teaching, it is an active role, it is a choice we are making, it is an ongoing process, and the onus is on us. To do it right. To do it kindly.   THE FOUNDATION FOR BOUNDARIES But here is where it really gets better. You and I cannot actually teach other people how to treat us properly unless we first know how to treat ourselves properly. Unless and until we treat ourselves properly, we will not have the clarity or the confidence or the language or the ability or the inner strength or the courage to teach others how to do it. If we cannot or will not treat ourselves properly, it becomes more and more difficult to expect others to. Because why would they treat us better than we treat ourselves. Now, sometimes people do. Sometimes there are really Christ like people in the world and they treat others properly because of who they are. And we love those people and we are grateful for those people. But normally, on the day to day, it is up to us to teach others, and that means that we start by treating ourselves properly.   TREATING YOURSELF PROPERLY IS NOT INDULGENCE And that does not mean indulgence. One of my favorite things that C S Lewis ever said is that most people do not want a father in heaven. They want a grandfather in heaven. And he just meant that we want all of our wounds bandaged up. We want to be sent on the playground to have a good time. We want to have the lollipops and the candies and desserts. We do not want to eat our vegetables because that is what a father makes us do. A father disciplines us. A father teaches us what is right and wrong. A father expects us to do what is right or to take the consequences. And so even though treating ourselves properly sometimes means recreation and leisure and having fun, it also means disciplining ourselves. Like in the words of Laura Ingalls, I must make myself mind myself.   AN ACTIONABLE PRINCIPLE FOR PEOPLE PLEASING That is where we get at an actionable principle. I must treat myself the way I expect others to treat me. And that is a jumping off place for a myriad of actionable things. Okay, what would that mean. That means I need to listen to my conscience better. That means I need to take care of my body, my mind, my soul, and my emotions. It leads to all sorts of better behaviors that then build the reserves and the confidence. By taking loving actions towards ourselves, we like ourselves more. We learn to love ourselves. The feelings of love and liking follow. They come after the loving proper actions, the making ourselves mind ourselves, the putting proper boundaries in place by treating ourselves properly. And this is why when you begin to think in principles, stuff that was so ethereal and confusing to you before just snaps right into focus.   WHY THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING When we began this podcast and I talked to you about getting over your people pleasing, you might have had a myriad of solutions you thought I was going to give you about how you were going to sit down and have conversations or tell people this or that other thing, or tell people no, or set a better schedule, or a million tactics that you might be hearing out there in the world. But actually it all comes back to you. In a future podcast, I am going to talk more about this and why that matters so much, and this is exactly why our academy is built the way that it is built, because the foundation of all your other relationships is your relationship with yourself. And that core truth puts everything into clearer perspective. Now you know that if you struggle with people pleasing, you have an actionable principle you can take right now, and you can begin to work on your relationship with yourself. You can treat yourself better knowing that as you do, you will have the strength and the confidence and the clarity to expect others and to teach them with kindness because they do not always know. And as you change and you want them to change toward you, you will have to kindly teach them that kind of thing is not allowed. For example, how you talk to yourself. If you do not want others to talk badly to you, you should probably start talking better to yourself. Because you need to treat yourself the way that you would treat someone that you love. And when you do that, you can tell others not to talk to you that way because that is not how people talk to you, including you. So this shift increases your personal power when you lean into truth and not tactics.   WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE IN REAL LIFE You are liberated to know what to do, to know how to practice. There is a myriad of actions that you can take from this podcast, from this one principle that you can begin to put into action. And as you work on loving yourself properly, as you treat yourself the way that you deserve to be treated, you simply communicate that to other people. Oh, we do not talk that way to me. Oh, we do not demand things of me. Oh, we honor my schedule. Oh, that is something that you need to do. And of course there are other principles of boundaries and there are, in a collaborative relationship, and you need to learn those and you can learn those. But unless the foundation is in place, the others will fall apart. Because when you get in a pinch and when things get rough, just like I said before, it will all fall back on the person you have become. The principles that you have integrated into your basic character will be who you are, and that is what you will fall back on in a crisis or in a hard situation, or when you are being called upon by someone to do something that makes you feel uncomfortable. You will not cut corners anymore. You will not let people take advantage of you. You will not do things that go against your conscience when you are around other people. Because you will treat yourself the way that you need to be treated, and this is why tactics fail with boundaries scripts. You say this and then they say this. Or just say these affirmations to yourself. Or just do these simple things. It is truth versus approval. It is that personal empowerment, becoming the authority in your own life, becoming the expert in your own life, and living the principles that cause you to work on you first and healing yourself internally, not just behaviorally. The answers are not out there. They are not in the words that you say in the way that you navigate these relationships. They are about what happens to you internally. And when you shift the focus from people pleasing and trying to negotiate those relationships out there to how you treat yourself better, parenting yourself, guiding yourself with good principles and practices, everything begins to shift.   FREE TRAINING INVITATION AND CLOSING And in this free training that I am going to be teaching you soon, I am going to walk you through how to uncover principles like this for your specific struggles. And I am going to teach you how to start living them immediately. Make sure you are on our email list and you get registered for that free training. Because I really want to have you there so that I can give you these tools and skills. I can help you shift your thinking forever so that you can have truth make you free. Thanks for joining me. I will see you next time.

If you have ever thought… “Why am I still struggling? I’ve tried so many different things and none of them create lasting change.” This week’s podcast episode is one you’re going to want to tune into 👀 What I’m going to show you may completely change how you see every book, course, therapist, podcast, and program you’ve ever tried. Let’s face it:  Most growth systems aren’t failing because they’re wrong. They’re failing because they’re incomplete. Hit play on this week's podcast episode to take a step closer towards being the expert of your own life! Hop on our list to get access to the upcoming free class and Discover how the 7 Laws of Life Mission Can Transform You! https://www.themissiondrivenmom.com   AI GENERATED TRANSCRIPTINTRODUCTION Welcome back to the podcast. I’m Audrey Rindlisbacher, author of The Mission-Driven Life and founder of The Mission-Driven Mom. I’m so excited for you to join me today. I want you to understand that most growth systems—the programs that you join, the therapy that you go to, the courses that you take, the conventions that you attend—aren’t failing because they’re wrong, but because they’re incomplete. And today I want to talk to you about why tactics without principles will always keep you cycling through solutions, and why learning how to think is way more important than learning what to do. What we experience a lot as women and mothers is that we try to solve problems in silos.   SOLVING PROBLEMS IN SILOS For example, we have a marriage problem. Things aren’t going well in our marriage, so we go to marriage therapy. Or parenting isn’t going well, so we go to a parenting seminar or a convention, or we buy some parenting books. Or our finances are a bit of a mess, so we sign up for or listen to Dave Ramsey. Or we need to fix our health, so we go out and get a health coach or a gym pass. These aren’t bad things to do. It’s not that they’re not going to help you. It’s not that these people don’t have good ideas, and it’s not that they’re trying to do something wrong. It’s just that they don’t have a principled approach—even when they might think that they do. The parenting example that I gave last podcast is a perfect example of how this happens. Remember when I told you about the moms that bought the book and they all read it, and their takeaway was, “When our kids argue, we need to let them argue and ignore them,” and then it made things worse in their homes? They had trusted an authority. They had leaned into that authority. This person had, I don’t know, some kind of doctorate degree or something, seemed like they really knew what they were talking about. This book had been popular or whatever the situation was, and they didn’t know how to discern for themselves what the best actions would be. So they took that person’s advice at face value, and it exploded in their faces.   WHEN AUTHORITY DOESN’T HELP This is very much like when Blaine and I went to marriage therapy. Things were bad. We knew that they were bad. And, you know, bless him, he wanted to show me that he intended to stay together and that he loved me, and so he signed us up and we went. But literally, I can remember two helpful things from almost a year of meeting every week with this woman. One was that I cared way too much what people thought. That was actually legitimately helpful. It was an insight into myself that helped me to reallocate my values and be more careful about that kind of thing. And then the other thing I remember—the only other thing—was this scale she gave us as she taught us how to use a scale from one to ten to plan the dates that we would go on sometimes. And honestly, other than that, we spent a year— I don’t even know what we spent back then. A hundred, a hundred and twenty dollars a session. It’s now like a hundred and fifty a session. I mean, you do the math—four or five thousand dollars. I don’t even know what it was that we spent with her—and she did not know how to help us. Now, as a side note here, I have a husband who has a marriage and family therapy degree from Liberty University, which is a great school. But we watched him go through that program. We saw the things he was doing for his coursework. There are some good books that came out of that, some good advice that came out of that. But fundamentally, they were throwing things at the students. Many of the students seemed like they were broken themselves and were there because they needed their own healing. They did not seem like they were in a position to really help other people. And he came out of there still not really having any idea how to do therapy and how to help someone. Now, you can go get training and apprenticeship and all of that kind of thing. And I know that some people are very gifted. I’m not saying that it’s not helpful. I’m just saying that we give a lot of credence to what they say. We try that before a lot of other things—or instead of other things. And there’s a reason why it’s not always helpful. These people don’t always have the training that we think they have. They don’t always have the knowledge and wisdom we think they have. And we aren’t good at discerning what they’re telling us to do.   CYCLING THROUGH SOLUTIONS We cycle through these different solutions. We try different things. What we don’t realize is that these things have a lot of overlap, and that trying to solve our problems in silos is just going to keep us cycling. We can have an insight here or there. We can have a little paradigm shift. We can get some help. But fundamentally, we aren’t actually changed. We aren’t actually seeing the world differently. We aren’t actually behaving differently with a fundamentally different perception of ourselves and the world—a different way of thinking and being. And we absolutely have to get to that point if we’re going to become the experts in our own lives.   PRINCIPLES VS. APPLICATIONS This is because there’s a huge difference between principles and applications. Principles are governing truths. Applications are situational behaviors. Not all of the applications—and in fact, not most of other people’s applications or suggestions—are going to work for me most of the time. They’re just not. And so there’s a ton of voices out there. There has never been a time in the history of the world that can even touch this information age in terms of all of the stuff you’re being fed nonstop. It is exhausting to navigate. None of us are properly prepared for it. And unfortunately, we’re even less prepared because of the things that have been taken away from us that would have helped us prepare.   CHARACTER ETHIC VS. PERSONALITY ETHIC This is the difference between classical education or liberal arts education and modern education. I’m going to tell you a story from Seven Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen Covey. If you’ve followed me very long, you know he’s a favorite. When Dr. Covey was working on his doctorate, he studied the success literature published in the United States since 1776. He read hundreds of books, articles, and essays in fields such as self-improvement, popular psychology, and self-help. And he noticed something startling. The literature from the first 150 years focused on what he called the character ethic—things like integrity, humility, fidelity, courage, justice, patience, industry, simplicity, modesty, and the Golden Rule. But the literature from the last 50 years focused on what he called the personality ethic—quick fixes, social image, influence techniques, positive thinking, communication skills. And he said much of that later literature was superficial. It addressed acute problems temporarily but left the chronic root problems untouched.   HACKING AT THE LEAVES VS. THE ROOT That’s what happened in our marriage. The therapist wanted to teach us communication techniques. And it’s not that communication isn’t helpful. But they’re techniques—not truths. We had deeper issues. How we saw ourselves. How we saw each other. What we took responsibility for. What we blamed each other for. One of my favorite quotes by Henry David Thoreau says: “For every thousand hacking at the leaves of evil, one is hacking at the root.” That’s what we’re trying to do. Hack at the root. Most self-help systems are hacking at the leaves. They don’t know how to get to the root because they don’t have the tools or the paradigm to do it.   DISCERNMENT IS THE MISSING SKILL Covey explains that the character ethic teaches that there are basic principles of effective living, and that people can only experience true success and enduring happiness as they learn and integrate these principles into their character. But before you can live them, you have to recognize them. And in this flood of information, how are you going to recognize them unless you have discernment skills?   THE BOOKSTORE STORY Years ago, I was in a bookstore looking for a copy of a book with wide margins so I could write in it. I wanted to highlight. Take notes. Write my thoughts. Have a conversation with the author. The salesgirl asked me why I wanted wide margins. I told her I wanted to write my thoughts in the book. And she said, “Oh, I can’t trust my thoughts.” It was such a powerful moment. She didn’t mean she had evil thoughts. She meant she had been schooled to believe that the professor knows better than her. That authorities know better. That she shouldn’t trust her own thinking. We are trained to write about what authorities think—not what we think. We’re never writing to ourselves or developing our own discernment. And that has left us unprepared.   EDUCATION DIDN’T PREPARE US FOR WHAT MATTERS MOST Our modern education trained us for careers. But it did not prepare us for the areas where we will find the greatest fulfillment, meaning, and joy in life. If we don’t know how to use lifelong learning to discern truth and integrate it into our character, we are truly unprepared.   BECOMING THE EXPERT IN YOUR OWN LIFE Imagine what it would feel like to be the authority in your own life. To have tools. To have discernment. To have confidence and peace. To listen to doctors and experts—but bring it back to truth and make your own grounded decisions. First, you identify truth. Then you learn it. Then you live it. Then it liberates you.   FREE TRAINING INVITATION I have an upcoming free training where I’m going to show you how to stop outsourcing authority and start discerning truth for yourself. You are not meant to be stuck. You are meant to become the expert in your own life. If you’re not on the list, get on the list so you can be notified when registration opens. It’s free. It’s happening in a few weeks. I’m super excited about it. We’ve been working on it for a long time, and I hope it gives you what you need to turn a corner and start trusting your own ability to discern and discover truth for yourself. Thank you so much for being here, and I’ll see you next time.  

If you feel like you’ve tried everything - books, courses, therapy, church, conferences - and you’re still feeling stuck, overwhelmed, and unsure of yourself, this episode is for you. In this episode, we explore why so many sincere, hardworking moms feel and you still feel stuck, overwhelmed, unsure of yourself, and frustrated… and why it’s not because you aren’t trying hard enough.  We talk about the difference between advice and principles, why modern self-help often leaves us frustrated, and how learning to discern truth can radically change the way you see yourself, your relationships, and your direction. This episode is an invitation to stop outsourcing your life, learn how to think differently, and step into your role as the expert in your own life. I’m so glad you’re here. Enjoy the episode!    INTRODUCTION: THE MISSION-DRIVEN MOM PODCAST Welcome to the Mission-Driven Mom Podcast. This podcast is for moms just like you who want to learn how to glorify God through finding and embracing true principles, discovering and developing your greatest gifts, and using them to serve your family and community.   WHO THIS PODCAST IS FOR Welcome back to the podcast. I’m Audrey Rindlisbacher, author of The Mission-Driven Life and founder of The Mission-Driven Mom. If you are a woman who has tried everything—if you feel like you’re doing everything right to the best of your ability and trying really hard—if you’re reading books, signing up for online courses, in therapy, or going to conferences, and you still feel unsure of yourself, stuck, frustrated, and overwhelmed, then I want to tell you—I want to reassure you—that it is not your fault. Most women don’t struggle because they don’t try hard or because they’re not sincere. Most women actually try genuinely really hard, and they’re quite teachable and ready to learn and ready to change when they just know the right path to take. It’s not because of your lack of effort; it’s because you don’t have the proper tools.   WHY TRYING HARDER ISN’T THE ANSWER And I know a lot of people tell you that, and I know that sounds like the song and dance of so many people online. But I’m here to tell you there’s something very ancient that’s going to feel very new—something that can radically change your trajectory in life because it radically changed mine, and it’s helped hundreds and hundreds of women who have gone through our program. I’m going to explain why you’ve done all the things you knew to do and you’ve given life your best effort, but you’ve been left very unprepared. And if you’re anything like me, you feel cheated—because you genuinely tried your best, and life has just left you hanging. You just don’t feel prepared for this super important moment in your life. And you probably feel powerless, even though you’re trying super hard.   THE SEARCH FOR ANSWERS So recently someone asked me, “Why do women feel so stuck? Especially moms—why do we feel like this?” And if you’re anything like I was, you keep waiting for the next resource, and you have tried so many things. You’ve probably tried spiritual things—not to say that God wasn’t there or didn’t love you, and not to say that going to church isn’t incredibly helpful. You absolutely need those things, and you’ve tried them, and they’ve helped—but you’re still not there. Maybe you tried the next level of education, but you’re still not there. And you get to this point—you kind of hit this wall like I did—where you realize it doesn’t work. I keep doing all the things that the world tells me to do, and they just don’t help. In fact, sometimes they can actually make things worse.   WHEN ADVICE FAILS: A PARENTING EXAMPLE I knew a group of women who wanted to improve their parenting. Things weren’t going well at their houses, so they found a parenting book, and they all decided to read it and do whatever the book said. And I don’t know exactly how this author said it, but one of their primary takeaways from this book was that if their children fought with each other and struggled, they should simply ignore them—that if they left it alone, somehow the kids would just work it out. And guess what? Things got worse at their houses because they didn’t have the ability to discern—to discern truth from error—and to live according to principles.   WHAT WE ACTUALLY NEED: DISCERNMENT Now, you and I both know that what we really want is the ability to discern, to discern truth, to have confidence in our own decisions, and to be able to look out into the culture and not be repeatedly overwhelmed and confused by it. And what happens is we go out there, we try to find answers, and the world says all sorts of things. It says, “Follow your dreams.” It says, “Do what you love.” It says, “Ask yourself what you want.” And those are all the wrong answers. I’m telling you.   A REAL-LIFE EXAMPLE: ASKING THE WRONG QUESTIONS In fact, I’ll give you one quick example. My daughter is a senior in high school, and she’s making decisions about what’s coming in her future. And some things didn’t work out in the last couple of years the way that she hoped they would have. So she’s not where she thought she would be, and that’s been overwhelming and frustrating. We were having a conversation about something in her life, and she was trying to make an important decision about what she’s going to do. And her comment was, “Well, I just don’t know what I want.” And I know she’s getting that everywhere in the world. Everybody’s asking her, “What do you want? What do you want? What do you want?” And I said, “You know, that’s not a very good question because it’s not a principled question.” The right question is, “What could I do that would make me feel good about myself?” That’s a way better question.   THE CONSEQUENCES OF FOLLOWING THE WORLD So when you listen to the world and follow its advice, it often wreaks havoc. I mean, there are people in my life right now that I can think of—either they or someone they know made decisions based on those questions: “What do you want?” “Who are you?” Blah, blah, blah. And it did not work out well. In some cases, it really shattered lives. That’s so unfortunate.   SALLY’S STORY: WHEN LIFE LOOKS PERFECT BUT ISN’T But there was a woman who, a few years ago, knew about the Academy. She didn’t really want to do it. And she had someone in her neighborhood who did the program, and this friend had mentioned to her a couple of times, “You know, this is really benefiting my life. I’m really learning to think differently. I’m really learning to see the world differently.” And this woman—we’ll call her Sally—told her friend, “You know, I don’t need more self-help in my life. I don’t need more people telling me what to do because all I do is try stuff, and then it doesn’t work. And every time I read that stuff or try that stuff, it just makes me feel worse about myself.” And she’s not the only one. A lot of women have said this kind of thing. But luckily, her friend prevailed. Her friend was able to share enough information with her that it convinced Sally she should get involved. And ironically, Sally was in a marriage and a life that actually, from the outside, looked very put together. Sally was the kind of woman who had been to quite a bit of college herself, whose husband was a brilliant and successful entrepreneur. They had several small, beautiful children. They were religiously affiliated. They were actually very beautiful people. They had a lot of friendships. They had connections in the community. And even in their mid-thirties, they were very financially successful. They had a big, beautiful home and lots of extended family connections. Their life looked very put together. It looked like they had everything going for them. And yet this woman, Sally, was silently crying inside. She had been on the brink of divorce for years. The people closest to her knew this, but many other people didn’t. And she just kept saying, “He doesn’t spend enough time at home, and we just can’t get along. I just think divorce is the only answer for us.”   THE REAL ISSUE: EXPECTATIONS AND TRUTH In the meantime, she had, unfortunately, these bad thoughts about herself—why didn’t she have her life put together when all these other people on social media looked like they had their lives put together? And it was such a painful situation—to have everybody looking at her life thinking it was so perfect, and yet knowing that deep down inside there was real trouble. She didn’t know how to navigate it. She didn’t really like herself. She didn’t really know herself. She didn’t really love herself. And her marriage was unhappy—she was very unfulfilled in her marriage. She got involved with the Academy, and as she learned to see herself differently, as she learned these tools that I learned, as she gained knowledge about what truth is and how it makes us free, she came to understand a very important principle. That principle was that she was expecting her husband to meet needs that she could only meet for herself, and that she had been silently blaming him for many, many years for problems in their relationship where it was actually not his responsibility to fix those things for her. In fact, he couldn’t do those things for her.   WHAT CHANGED EVERYTHING As she learned to think differently about herself, to think differently about her husband, and to think differently about their relationship—as she saw truth and practiced it—everything changed. Later on, someone in her life asked her, “How is your marriage?” And she said, “Oh, it’s night-and-day different. It is so much better, so much happier, and so much more fulfilling.” And they asked her, “Why? What changed?” She said, “I did this program, and I learned to see him and myself through the lens of truth.” She didn’t say it quite like that, but that’s essentially what happened. And she said, “I learned that I need to care for myself and not blame him when I don’t feel the way I want to feel.” So transformational.   PRINCIPLES VS. INFORMATION That’s the difference between information and advice versus principles—because principles are timeless truths that work every time for everyone. And it’s so important that we understand the difference. That’s how we learn to discern. That’s how we begin to understand how we can actually transform situations permanently—because principles are timeless. They never change, and they always work. You and I are not above or below the truth. The truth is always available to us, and it will always make us free.   WHY WE FEEL SO UNPREPARED We haven’t been given the tools. We don’t understand what they are. We don’t know how to identify them, how to latch onto them, and how to utilize them to be set free. Our modern education and self-help culture really focus on tactics. They focus on coping and symptom management predominantly. That’s not to say that these programs or therapists don’t ever say something that is true, timeless, and helpful. But their inability—and our inability—to properly identify principles, to call them out clearly, and to discern them for ourselves is crippling everyone. Because principles actually help us govern reality. And they work even when we believe they won’t.   DISCERNING BETWEEN AUTHORITIES Most women have never been taught this because our education system doesn’t teach it anymore. And we are outsourcing all the pieces of our lives to authorities. We can’t be the experts in our own lives if we don’t know how to discern what we’re being told—even by the best authorities in the world. And I could tell you all kinds of stories. I think I recently told you—I can’t remember if I shared it on the podcast or not—the story of taking my daughter to two different professionals for her ankle when it was injured. One doctor told us she needed major surgery—a false ligament put in—with a year-long recovery. The other doctor said he could do a quick cleanup, do PRP therapy, and she’d be back in the gym. And guess what? The second doctor was right. And that’s the one we went with. That’s not to say the first doctor couldn’t have been right as well. But how do you discern as a mom? How do you make the decision? How do you know who to listen to? How do you sort through all these authorities?   A CULTURAL PROBLEM And I’ll tell you what—I’ve mentioned this before, and we’re going to talk about this more this year, and I hope to get some experts on the show to talk to us too—but the feminist movement did us very few favors. You might make the case that it helped equalize some pay scales and opened up job opportunities for women. But fundamentally, it did a lot of damage to our psyche—to how we think about ourselves and how we manage ourselves in the world.   THE REAL SOLUTION So that’s why I can tell you with absolute confidence: if you are feeling stuck and frustrated, it is not your fault. Even though you’re putting in all the effort and trying all these different resources, there are fundamental reasons those resources aren’t working for you. You don’t need to be more motivated. You don’t need to try harder. You don’t need to overhaul your life. You need to learn how to see and think differently.   WHAT COMES NEXT In a few weeks, I’m going to be offering a free class where we’ll dive deeper into these concepts. We’ll have time for me to share key stories, teach important ideas, and show you how you can change your life—how you can really turn that corner you’ve been wanting to turn. You can begin to feel powerful and like the expert in your own life through some small changes that I’m going to show you. I would really love for you to be there. And if you’re not on our email list, make sure you get on it. You can get the free audiobook right now, or you can simply opt in so that when registration opens for this free class, you’ll be there. We can spend the time we need to deep dive into all of this, and I can give you the tools and resources you need so that life can be better and this pain can end.   CLOSING Thank you so much for joining me today, and I will see you next time.  

What happens after the kids leave home? In this episode of the Mission-Driven Mom Podcast, Audrey sits down with Suzy Mighell, founder of Empty Nest Blessed and Empty Nest Blessed: 60 Days to Finding Joy in the Empty Nest. It's available HERE. Together, they explore why the empty nest isn’t a destination—it’s a dynamic season of growth—and how women can move from loss and uncertainty into clarity, peace, and mission. Suzy shares the wisdom she’s gained from more than a decade of walking alongside thousands of women, as well as practical guidance for parenting adult children, releasing unhealthy expectations, and rediscovering who you are beyond motherhood. _____________________________________________________ Get Suzy’s Book Empty Nest Blessed: 60 Days to Finding Joy in the Empty Nest. It's available  HERE. (Available in hardcover, ebook, and audiobook)   Connect with Suzy Mighell Website & Blog: https://emptynestblessed.com Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/emptynestblessed Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/emptynestblessed YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@emptynestblessed   AI Generated Transcript Welcome + Introducing Suzy Audrey: Welcome back to the podcast. We have a treat for you today. I’ve got Suzy Mighell with me, and you’re going to find out what an incredible woman she is, because the more I get to know her, the more joy it is. She is the mother of Empty Nest Blessed. Suzy: You said I was the mother of Empty Nest. Audrey: The author. Yes. The author of— Suzy: I feel like I am its mother. I did birth it. Audrey: Yeah. The author of 60 Days to Finally Enjoy the Empty Nest. So we’re going to get into that. We’re going to talk about her experiences training parents. We’re going to talk about how she found her call as the mission-driven woman that she is, and other great tidbits. So if you’re new to the podcast, loop back and listen to some of those beginning podcasts so that you can better understand the frame of reference. Here we’re talking about the seven laws and how you can be a more mission-driven individual, so take advantage of that. So grateful to have you and ready to dive in and talk to Suzy. So, Suzy, just give us a little bit of introduction—things that you would like us to know about you. And we’re going to dive deeper, but just give us an introduction: where you’re at in life, and something a little bit about you and your family.   Suzy’s Introduction: Family + Calling Suzy: Okay. Well, first of all, I am such a fan of yours, and now we’re firm, fast friends. Audrey: Yes. Suzy: And I’m so grateful. We are kindred spirits. We are so aligned, and I’m grateful. It’s such an encouragement to find the women that—there—that mission-driven mindset. And I even love that term: mission-driven. Audrey: Yeah. Suzy: And I’ve actually—I’ve plagiarized it. Is it copyrighted, Audrey? Audrey: No. It probably should be. Suzy: It should be, because I have—I actually used it on a TV show last week that I was on. I hadn’t met you yet, but I knew that I was coming on here, and really I was talking about helping women in the empty nest really be mission-driven and finding their purpose. Audrey: That is awesome. Suzy: All your time. Audrey: That just shows you how aligned we are. Suzy: So, that’s awesome. Audrey: We are, we are so aligned. Yeah. Suzy: Well, my name is Suzy Mighell, and I have been an empty nester for 10 years. I live in Dallas, Texas with my husband. We met at Baylor University and married not long after graduation. We’ve been married 38 years, and we have three grown children, two daughters-in-law—which, by the way, I’m a writer. I used to say “daughter-in-laws,” but it’s actually “daughters-in-law.” Audrey: Daughters-in-law, yep. Suzy: Trivia. And I have two precious grandbabies under three—a boy and a girl. And I have two crazy grand-dogs all in the same family with the two children, so they need a lot of help when we’re available. And then my youngest is a daughter. She is single and precious. And so, yes—so that is us. Bob and I have been married, as I said, 38 years. I have always been involved in discipling women, teaching women, speaking, sharing my story, encouraging. I thank God I knew early on that even before the love languages were, like, a thing, God had given me the gift of encouragement. Audrey: Yeah. Suzy: I do think the biblical term “exhortation” is deeper and richer than just encouragement. I think it encompasses inspiration. I hope it encompasses persuasion—exhortation, encouragement—all those things. So I really see myself more as an exhorter than an encourager.   Becoming an Empty Nester: Listening and Obeying Suzy: When I became an empty nester 10 years ago—took my last child to college—I knew before that time I had been serving on nonprofit boards. I was, you know, the PTA president. I was speaking and doing some training on parenting and things like that—character-driven parenting as my kids were growing up—teaching on that and traveling some, doing that. And I knew I wanted to do something of significance in the empty nest. I wasn’t sure what it was. And gradually the Lord just steered me in the right direction. And I can say that the most important thing I did was listen and obey. Audrey: That’s— Suzy: So that involved, on my part, Him prompting me somewhere and me saying, “Okay,” and pursuing it. Audrey: Yeah. Suzy: You know, we live in a time where it’s so easy to get information, and so many people are willing to share. And I found myself in a situation of doing what I called informational interviews. So I was like, “Well, you know what? I’ve always kind of liked fashion, so maybe I should sell cabi clothing. They seem like a great company.” So I went and talked to some girls who were doing it and followed them around, and I was like, “Uh, I don’t know. I mean, I think it’s great. I love fashion. I’m not sure it feels significant enough on its own. I think that’s really what the Lord’s calling me to.” So, different things.   The Blogging Era and Noticing a Need Suzy: And I knew 10 years ago was the advent of blogging—when people were starting to blog. It was not the influencers. It was not the content creators. People were just blogging. They were getting these websites, they were writing down their feelings, writing down their thoughts, and sharing it with the world. And people were reading blogs. Much like with podcasts today, people were like, “Oh, do you follow this blogger? Do you need to read this blog?” And so I thought—because in college I was a marketing and PR major. Journalism. Audrey: Oh, wow. Suzy: Triple major. Audrey: Triple major. Suzy: So I was like, “Why? I mean, I’m always going to write, and I feel like I have something to share.” So I was thinking about that—thinking like, “Yeah, things for me.” But I know—what do I have to talk about? So at the time I noticed, as many of my friends were dropping off those last children in college, that many of them were feeling lost. I think all of us—me included—felt that sense of grief that accompanies that huge transition, but also a sense of loss, a longing for purpose. Audrey: Yeah. I would think you would call that just a longing for mission. Suzy: Yeah. And a need to see, “What does God have for me? How can God use me?”   Starting Empty Nest Blessed Suzy: And so I started looking, praying—as I said, informational interviews. If I’d known you then, I would’ve been like, “Oh, we’re going to have a series of informational interviews, Audrey.” Audrey: Yeah. Suzy: Anyway—so really just talking to people and following the Lord’s leading. And I had this idea to start a blog for empty nesters that had an encouraging, joyful take on it. And I thought, “You know what? All it’s really going to take for me is the willingness—and really the courage—to put myself out there.” Audrey: Yeah. Suzy: As I looked at what empty nester blogs were out there, many of them were sad. They were like, “I was curled up on his bed in the fetal position crying,” and I thought, “Okay. Okay. This is not what the Lord wants for you.” I’m married to a very financial husband. He is very financial. He is a CFO. He’s a CPA. He thinks very bottom line. Audrey: Yeah. Suzy: And so he was like, “You know, we’ve got a third of our life left.” That’s basically the bottom line. Audrey: Yeah. Suzy: I was like, “Okay. That’s a good way to put it. We have a third of our life left. How does the Lord want to use us, and what is the purpose?” And so I just felt like, “I’m going to go on this journey and discover God’s purpose for me, and see if I can just take women along with me.”   Serving the Whole Woman in the Empty Nest Suzy: So I started this blog and started doing things like—I would write a blog post about cooking for two rather than cooking for five, and here’s how you use a little two-quart crockpot instead of like the eight-quart one you used for your big family, and here’s how you modify your recipes. And then I would make these videos and put them on YouTube or Facebook, and people would be like, “Oh, that’s great. Did you get that recipe out of a certain cookbook?” Or, “Hey, by the way, tell me about your earrings.” And I thought, “What’s going on?” At first I was like, “This is not the point of what we’re talking about.” But then I thought, “You know what? People want to feel resourced. They just want to be resourced.” And I realized that so many new empty nesters—because we really gave ourselves into that sacred calling that is motherhood— Audrey: Yeah. Suzy: —that is precious, and that calling from the Lord to raise up this next generation, to raise them well—feel like moms set themselves aside during that period. And many, many moms then get to the empty nest stage and they are behind. They maybe don’t know how to do tech. They maybe have neglected their health and wellness. Often this coincides with perimenopause and menopause. Audrey: Yeah. Suzy: So there are issues there. Maybe they have fallen out of the habit of exercising as they were busy with kids. Sometimes marriages suffer as there’s an over-focus on the children. Maybe their relationships— So many of us at that 50-ish age are in the middle of that sandwich generation. We may have elderly parents that need attention— Audrey: Yeah. Suzy: —on down to those younger generations. Sometimes we don’t know how to dress our body at 50. “I still want to look fashionable, but I don’t know how to dress this 50-year-old body,” or how to translate the trends to be what I would consider age-appropriate. You know, all those things. “I’ve got wrinkles on my face.” So I just decided there was room to speak into just the empty nest woman, because that’s what I was. So it’s just made it really easy to be authentic. I just needed courage to say, “Okay, y’all, I’m having these wrinkles right here—now you see them—here’s what we’re going to do about that.” Audrey: Yeah. Suzy: And share what I was using or what I was doing—whether it was fashion or beauty. So I decided to really focus Empty Nest Blessed on the whole woman, because women are so beautifully multifaceted. We love our families, but we love a good bubble bath. We love beauty products, we love cute clothes, and we love our husbands. And so I thought, “I’m going to talk about all those things.”   Empty Nest Blessed Mission Statement Suzy: So that is how I ended up with Empty Nest Blessed. My mission statement with Empty Nest Blessed, right from the beginning, has not changed, and it was to encourage, inspire, and bless empty nesters. And to me, that blessing encompasses serving them. So if I can help you find a Target sweater that makes you feel cute, I am thrilled. Because I feel like I’ve served you—because you don’t like to shop, or you don’t get out there, and you’ve never seen this Target sweater until I put it on. This is, by the way, from Target—little puff sleeve, short sleeve sweater. Audrey: Cute. Suzy: Thank you. So that is the approach that I took. And I just started writing, and women responded, and it’s been 10 years, and I’m still going. Audrey: That’s so great. Suzy: And during that time, you know, I’ve expanded as my life’s expanded—as my boys both got married, as I became a grandmother. My topics have expanded.   The Empty Nest Isn’t a Destination Suzy: And I think it’s so funny, Audrey. I’d love to know what you think about this, because I feel like when we’re younger, don’t you feel like we talked about the empty nest like it was a destination? Like you and I are going on a plane and we’re going to Paris, and then we are in Paris. No, this is more like an around-the-world cruise. You more like got on a boat and then it took off, and you’re just in all kinds of different—it’s not a destination. It is a dynamic journey that you just embark on. Audrey: Yeah. Do you feel that? Suzy: Yeah.   Audrey’s Response: “I Wish I’d Thought About It Earlier” Audrey: Yeah. And you know, for me—I mean, we’re not quite there. We’re pretty close. But I just didn’t think about it enough. And we’ll get into Suzy’s book here in a minute, but one of the things I said to her when we were talking yesterday—just about things—she mentioned, “Well, I really feel like women need the book who might be struggling in empty nesting or maybe they’re just entering it.” And I said, “No, I think they need it 10 years before.” It would’ve helped me to have interacted with some of these ideas earlier—to have put more thought into this stage of my life, because I just thought about the go-to-college, get-married, have-the-kids part. I didn’t really think a lot about the parenting-of-adult-kids thing, and frankly, I thought it would be a lot smoother. And that’s not—you know, I have great kids. That’s mostly my problem, not theirs. But just thinking about each phase of life—thinking about what the future might bring and what you might want in that phase—is so helpful. And we’re thinking more about it now. I mean, we’re doing a better job now, but it’s going to happen. It’s imminent. It’s in your future. And so the more you can think about what that will look like—and for many women it means many years that their husband is still working full time. And sometimes these women work. Sometimes they find work that’s meaningful for them, and that’s wonderful if they do. But I know plenty of women whose husbands have retired young, or they’re in their fifties, they’re empty nesters, neither of them is working, and they’ve said to me that they aren’t sure how to use their days. They’re becoming really kind of overbearing grandparents—some of them—because they don’t know how else to use their time. And I’m always like, “There are so many ways God could use you.” So I do really agree with you that it’s—and you’ve walked it—but I think because of your attention to it— Your intention to understand it—and then all the interactions with however many hundreds of thousands of women that you’ve had and their feedback—has made you such an expert in this area, and able to reflect back. Because this is what I’ll say: as I was reading your book, it was like almost every page I felt like, “Oh yeah, that’s totally me,” or “I have exactly felt that way,” or “I have had that exact problem.” So you really have hit on what some of those key pain points are and given some beautiful solutions. And another thing I really love about the book is that you give journal prompts—I think for every day, or most days. And so you’re providing your insights and you’re providing some answers, but you’re also encouraging us to be really self-reflective, which is so therapeutic and helpful, and helps us come to our own conclusions around that thing. And some of them, it’s addressing pain points, but mostly it’s being optimistic—looking at the future, focusing on the good—which I think is so vital. So I want to go back, if you don’t mind, to when you were a little bit younger. What caused you to study the things that you studied in college? And what did life look like for you as a younger mother? Simply because we have moms of all ages listening, and I would like them to get a little bit clearer picture of what led you to that moment—and you said it was on your birthday—of dropping your last child off at school and hitting that wall. Wow. So what, in your growing up years or your college years, gave you some insights on who you are? How did your own self-discovery journey—what did that look like for you in figuring out, “Oh, this is what I’m interested in,” “I’d like to know more about that”—that self-knowledge that aided you in your life?   Suzy on Intentionality and Being Called by God Suzy: I think that’s a great question. And I think one of the things, as you were just talking, that I love—and that I think we’re so aligned in—is the idea of intentionality. Being very intentional. The people that I see just willy-nilly wandering through life and just kind of going with their gut and reacting with their gut and not pausing to listen to the Holy Spirit—just not being intentional, not being thoughtful about responding. And listen, I’m an impulsive talker as much as the next person, but I think that desire to live with intentionality— So honestly, Audrey, I can remember from an early age, when I really came to know the Lord, just having an overwhelming desire to want to glorify Him, and yet not knowing what that was going to look like. Audrey: Yeah. Suzy: And so I remember just thinking this very—like—all I have to really offer is this thing. Audrey: Yep. Suzy: And all I have to offer is me. Audrey: Yeah. Suzy: But I had a strong sense of what, of course, is throughout scripture: He equips whom He calls. Audrey: Yes. Yep. Suzy: And I don’t just mean that like, “You’re going to have a podcast, so you got a microphone.” I don’t mean equipped that way. I really felt like He gifted me the way He gifted me. He put the desires in my heart. Audrey: Yes. Suzy: If we’re truly given over and surrendered to the Lord, and our heart’s desire is to honor and please Him in all we say and do and think, two things are guaranteed. Number one: we will fall short. We will live for ourselves. We will sin. We will gossip when we shouldn’t. We will make mistakes. We must repent and turn from that sin and do our best. The second thing that’s guaranteed is that He will be faithful. Audrey: Mm-hmm. Suzy: If you desire to please Him, He will equip you to please Him. Audrey: Yes. Yeah.   Suzy’s Upbringing, Gifts, and Learning to Say Yes Courageously Suzy: So I think my own natural abilities and instincts—my upbringing. My family moved about every two years when I was growing up. So I was always in a new environment, always meeting new people. So I got good at just being warm, being friendly, being— Audrey: Yeah. Suzy: —I can talk to anybody, and I’m not intimidated. I’m not shy, because you couldn’t be. You won’t survive. Audrey: Yeah. Suzy: And so I think I saw the way the Lord brought my life circumstances to shape me, as well as my spiritual gifts—exhortation, discernment. Audrey: Yeah. Suzy: And my desire to encourage others, to build them up, to help them see what I could see when I looked at them—which is, “You just have so much to offer. Please share your gifts with others.” Audrey: Yes—please. Suzy: And I think I could see things—or that maybe it’s just the spiritual gift of discernment—but I could see that in them even if they couldn’t. So that combined with this desire to exhort. The five love languages—my primary one is, guess what: words of encouragement. So it’s just about who He made me, who He called me to be. And what I added was just the desire to honor and serve, to live in His will, and do what He wanted. So I think being open, and then listening to His voice and being obedient—and when He put an opportunity before me, not saying yes to everything, but thinking very carefully before I would say no. Audrey: Yeah. Suzy: Making sure it wasn’t a no because I was afraid. Audrey: Yes. Suzy: If it was a no because it was a little outside my comfort zone, or I’d never done it before, or it sounded a little scary and big—that’s not a reason to say no.   God Doesn’t Waste Anything Suzy: So really, as I’ve done Empty Nest Blessed and as I’ve seen the Lord work in my life, I saw that He would bring me time after time into situations where I would learn, and He was setting me up for the future. He literally—hear me on this—He does not waste a thing. Not a— Not a miscarriage that I had. Not a sin that I committed that I regret. Audrey: Yeah. Suzy: Not a conversation. Not a night of sleep where He woke me up—and it says in the Word He speaks to us in the night—and that He’s speaking to me, and I’m listening. He doesn’t waste a thing. And if you truly live with that mindset, you will listen and you’ll pay attention. And you will see Him. If it’s your desire and you pour out and ask Him, you will see Him everywhere, and you will see Him preparing you. And so when an opportunity comes and you think, “I don’t know,” but then you just can fall back and go, “He’s equipped me. He’s prepared me for just such a time as this. He said, ‘This is the way—walk in it,’ and my job is to walk.” And it’s such the sweetest way to live. I cannot tell you. It brings peace. It brings joy. It brings a sense of purpose and mission. Audrey: Yeah. Suzy: And it’s not perfect. My life is not perfect. I make mistakes. I misspeak. I sin. But I am sold out to my Savior—honoring Him with my life’s calling and my life’s work—and committed to serving others. I think if I had one message that I want your precious audience to hear, it’s that if you desire for Him to use you, He will do it. Audrey: Yes. Suzy: If you desire—oh yes—and He’ll do it. Audrey: Yes. Suzy: He will do it. And your job is to take courage, be obedient, see what He’s done.   Practical Identity Work: “Describe Me in Three Words” Suzy: And, you know, in a really practical sense too—let’s get practical—because one of the things I talk about in my book is moms come to the empty nest and they go, “I don’t know who I am anymore. Like, I studied these things in college a long time ago.” Audrey: Yeah. Suzy: I mean, you know, I told you my major was PR, journalism, and marketing. So I was in journalism—let me tell you, there was no internet, girl. Audrey: There was no internet there. Suzy: We were typing. Audrey: Yeah. I tell my kids all the time, we went to the typing lab. Suzy: That’s what we did. Audrey: We did. Suzy: We wrote papers. Audrey: We did. Suzy: And we were just grateful that we had automatic typewriters. Audrey: Oh, yes. Suzy: And they weren’t— Audrey: Yep. Suzy: Isn’t that funny? Audrey: Yeah. Suzy: And just so grateful. So anyway, I think it’s very, very important. I open my book this way because I think no matter where you are in life, the most important thing is to figure out who you are—and most importantly, who God says you are. So I open the book with a chapter that tells you to do something kind of weird, and that is: text 10 people and ask them to describe you in three words. Audrey: Oh, I love this exercise. Suzy: And I did. I texted my kids. I texted my parents. I texted—And I shared this story about how I thought they were going to be, like, real bossy. And especially my mom was going to be like, “You’re wealthy,” you know, “bossy, opinionated, strong,” you know—whatever. I was expecting to hear all of these negative terms. Audrey: Yeah. Yeah. Suzy: And I already had tried to do this—as I went through the exercise. The first part of that exercise is really: write down what you think you are—like how you hope that you are, and what you are, and what you think your gifts and abilities are, skills, all those things. So then when I get these words back, I hear words like “encouraging,” “motivating,” “persuasive,” “inspiring,” “confident leader”—all these things. It was shocking. It just reframed everything for me. And I thought, “Lord, if this is what people think they see—I mean, I know I’m a hot mess or whatever—but if they think they see this, this is like a little bit of me and all You. So I can walk in that.” Audrey: Yeah. Suzy: And He says, “This is the way—walk in it.” I can walk in that way. I can be that woman that people think I am because of my faith.   Who God Says You Are Suzy: And then we go on in the book to talk about the importance of what God says about who you are, and I have a list of 50 things right from His Word. Audrey: Yeah. Suzy: That He says you are beloved, and accepted, and—peaceful—and He rejoices over you, and you’re a daughter of the King—all these things. So it’s a sweet, sweet list that you can camp on as your daily devotional for hopefully weeks and months. Audrey: Mm-hmm. Suzy: I hope so. Audrey: Mm-hmm. Suzy: I hope it’s encouraging.   The “Who I Was + What I Learned” Formula Suzy: But I think too—I don’t know if you’ve gotten to the part in the book—but we take those words—things that you feel like you were, the gifts that you had before maybe you even had kids. Audrey: Mm-hmm. Suzy: Because you were a woman before you were a mama. Audrey: Yeah. Suzy: So you take who you were as a woman before—what you were good at—and you think that through, work through that journal, through that—however you need to do it. Then you take these words you got from others. You take what God says about who you are in Him. And then you start thinking about, okay, how long was I parenting? You know, if you have one child, you’re talking 18 years—you were actively parenting. If you have multiple children—like we do, you and I—it’s maybe 25-plus years that you are actively parenting. Audrey: Yeah. Suzy: So literally write down: what skills and abilities did you add or enhance during that time that you were fulfilling that very, very important role of a mother? You probably became a better counselor. You definitely became a better driver. You probably became a better cook. All the things. If you were a flower arranger, you probably became more organized—what did you add? So it really is like a formula: who I was before I had kids, what I learned during that time, equals who I am now. And if you can identify that, you are well on your way to figuring out your purpose and your mission. Audrey: Yeah. Suzy: And add to that all the beautiful things that you share with The Mission-Driven Mom about the seven laws and natural law and really understanding the great works—and you’ve got a woman that can contend.   Audrey: The World Needs These Women Audrey: Yeah. And one of the things that kind of makes me sad when I talk to some of these women who are in that empty nest phase and feel lost is I just always think, boy, the world needs you so much more than you know. And what I find—and maybe you find this too—is so many people selling themselves short. And frankly, I know that this false humility thing—where we conflate beating ourselves up with somehow being humble—those are definitely not the same things at all. But also, alongside what you were saying, Suzy, I think sometimes we’re selling ourselves short, and actually the real problem is just a lack of faith—because we don’t trust the God who made us, and we don’t trust that He can use us. And that He understood that equation from the beginning. And so, in a very practical sense, echoing what you said: if someone comes up to you and says, “Is there something I can do to help you?” and they stick around long enough and let their will be known, you’re going to find a way to use their help. This is exactly what God does with us. This is why the first principle in my book—the first thing we talk about in the Academy—is just the concept of being willing, being submissive. Submission comes before mission. And it’s just recognizing that as clumsy and as awkward as you feel, you still are useful. You are irreplaceable in the space that you live in, and there is so much room for you to grow into more.   Audrey’s Pottery Story: Discovery Can Happen Later Audrey: One of the stories that I love to tell: I went to a Fourth of July celebration in a park where they had little setups from colonial times, and one man was there busy with a potter’s wheel and showing kids how he threw pottery. Then he had a bunch of his work displayed, and you could purchase it. And it was beautiful. He did gorgeous work, and he was clearly in his retirement years. And so I said—well, I just assumed—“How long have you been doing this? You must have been doing this for a really long time.” He said, “Oh, just three or four years.” So what happened? He said, “Well, I always was curious about pottery. I thought it would be fun to take a class. And so I finally just went ahead and did it. Turns out I’m really good at it.” And he never would’ve known. And here he was—60, 65-plus—when he discovered this incredible gift that he has. And now he travels around and shares this with children. It’s an income source. It’s a source of joy and relaxation for him. It’s a way to teach and give back and serve. It’s all these beautiful things—mission-driven things—wrapped up in one. And that self-discovery never has to end. And so I’m sure in your work—and I can ask you this question—what are you still discovering about yourself and about what God can do with you even in these empty nesting years? Because it looks to me very much like you’re still facing fears, you’re still engaged in personal growth, and you’re still showing up every day, letting God use you. So what’s that giving to you personally? We know that your work is blessing other people, but what’s it doing for you—how you see yourself and your relationship with God—and those kinds of things?   Suzy: God Doesn’t Need Me, Yet He Wants Me Suzy: That’s a great question. Thank you for asking that. I think more than anything, I am struck by the fact that God—who created the universe, who made mountains out of nothing, put the stars in the sky and the sun and the moon, and created my hand—He does not need my help. Audrey: Yeah. Suzy: But He truly—this is truly how I feel—He literally lowered Himself to want me to help Him. Audrey: Yeah. Suzy: It is such a supreme act of love. Audrey: Yeah. Suzy: And yesterday you and I got on the topic of talking about the sovereignty of God, and I think either you truly believe He’s totally sovereign, or you’re doing some sort of weird form of idolatry where you’re making God into the image of man and you’re putting limitations on Him. Audrey: Yeah. Suzy: And He’s totally sovereign. You can’t comprehend the sovereignty of God, truly. And it’s called a great mystery in scripture. Audrey: Yeah. Suzy: And so I think to answer your question: the older I get, the more grateful I become that He is choosing to use me. He does not need me. Audrey: Yeah. Suzy: He can raise up out of stones. Audrey: Yeah. Suzy: He can raise up another person to do my job. Audrey: Yeah. Yeah. Suzy: But He loves me so much that He wants to use me and partner with me. He is about my growth—my conforming into the image of Christ—my becoming more like His Son. That’s what He is about. Audrey: Yeah. Suzy: The mission He can do—   Partnering With God and Believing You Have Something to Offer Audrey: Yeah. Suzy: So—nothing. I am just—yes—nothing. I am just so, so grateful. And so I love what you’re saying about partnering with Him. I actually think that He’s like, “Okay, I will use you.” Audrey: Yes. Suzy: It’s almost like He said, “I choose you.” Audrey: A hundred—okay. A hundred percent. Suzy: Exactly. Yes. And He does not—I mean, this is not a partnership. This is like me going, “Really? Oh, wow. You’re—okay.” Well, yes, of course, but I know exactly what you mean. You’re not alone in it. You can’t even begin to understand the load and the weight that He’ll carry, and the resources that He’ll provide that will show up. And like you, the most heartbreaking thing I see—and you and I are so aligned in this—is women who do not feel that they have something to offer. Audrey: Yes. Suzy: As we are called to love others as we love ourselves, and consider others more important than ourselves, and to serve others through love—anyone can do that. Audrey: Yep. Suzy: If you come to the Lord palms up and say, “Do this. Show me how,” how things will fall into place. If that is truly the desire of your heart, He will give you—sorry, I keep hitting my microphone—He will give you the desires of your heart. He says that in scripture, and He will provide the way, provide the path. Audrey: Yeah. Suzy: If you don’t feel equipped and ready, take Audrey’s course. Go through my book. Go through Audrey’s book. Be open, do the work, and see how the Lord has been preparing you and equipping you all your life. You didn’t see it, but you’ll start—the light bulb will go on. You’ll go, “This is it.” Audrey: Yeah. This is it. Yeah.   Continuing Growth and Refining Over Time Suzy: So how am I continuing to grow? Learning new things all the time. I’m curious. I’m learning new things. He puts challenges in front of me. It’s like when you have a fingernail and you take your nail file and—you know, you don’t file the top where it’s already smooth. You file the edges where there’s like a pointy thing. Audrey: Yeah. Suzy: And so I feel like that’s what the Lord is always doing in my life. He’s like, “You’ve got a little pointy thing here, and it’s kind of a problem, and so we’re going to file on that for a little while.” It’s funny too, because I’ve realized with writing this book—so I just turned 60 this year, and 60 feels super old. Audrey: Yeah. Suzy: Like the number. When I was young, I always thought, “60. Now that’s old.” Like, that’s grandma age. Well, I am a grandma. But I didn’t think 60 was like this. And I’m very aware and trying to be very thoughtful of the example I’m setting for my children and other young people I meet when I get to speak at colleges or whatever. I just want to set this example of this is what the last—according to my husband—third of your life looks like. Where you are making a difference. And really the number one thing to make a difference is just be surrendered to God and trust Him to bring you the thing. Audrey: Mm-hmm. Suzy: And remember—when I was younger—did you do this? I remember being afraid that if I really surrendered and submitted, He was going to send me to Africa. Audrey: Oh yeah. Suzy: Scary, in solitary confinement, like Corrie ten Boom or something. Audrey: Yes, yes. Suzy: And it was going to be terrible. The Lord knew that this delicate flower could not handle that. It was not going to be my calling. There’s no mascara in Africa. Anyway, I just—I was like, “No, I cannot.” And sure enough, the Lord equips whom He calls and He loves us enough to prepare us and prepare the way for us. And that’s what He did with me.   Audrey on Comparing Callings and Trusting Your Assignment Audrey: Yeah. It’s funny—the hang-ups we have. There’s a woman actually that came through my Academy, and the women that come through, they go on to do incredible things. This particular woman has bought some land in Mexico and she’s trying to establish an orphanage for Mexican orphan children—like a boarding school for them. And it’s really amazing. And I remember a couple years ago having a conversation with her about her work, and getting off the phone and being like, “What am I doing?” Like, I just feel like I’ve got such a cushy life. And I mean, we’ve gone down there and served an orphanage—I try to give back in those ways too—but I really had to do some soul-searching and make sure that I knew, “This is where I needed to be.” And finally, I just—Lord and I talked it out again—and He was very clear: “You are to be the one that stays where you are and inspires the women where they are.” And so it doesn’t seem hard enough or enough of a sacrifice. And then you have people on the other end, you know? So it—we all have our hang-ups.   Suzy on “Toggling” and the Danger of Comparison Suzy: Yeah. And I think there’s a little graphic that’s in my book—I don’t know if you’ve gotten to it yet—where I talk about toggling. You know how your iPhone, all of a sudden, is messed up, and you’re like, “What is happening?” And you investigate, and then you find one little switch was toggled the wrong way. Audrey: Yeah. Suzy: This happened—I’m toggling things. So anyway, I talk about: toggle on kindness. Toggle on compassion. Toggle off comparison. God is working on you individually—remember, Creator of the mountain, sun, moon, all of that—so working in the lives of individuals. When you think of how many individuals there are, working in the lives individually of that many people, that’s nothing. Audrey: Yeah. Suzy: That’s nothing. Audrey: Yeah, yeah. Suzy: Truly, totally sovereign. He can do that. So He is at work, and there is no comparison. Do not compare. But we tend to do that. And I think we are in a situation and environment with social media where that is very common.   Managing the Message and What Silence Communicates Suzy: And I notice that the things that I talk about, I can talk about, and people have opinions about. And sometimes they push back or tell me that’s awful, or they don’t agree, or they think it’s fabulous—whatever they think. And then there are others—if it’s an area of life where I stay silent, they tend to fill in the blanks. And that’s the thing you learn in PR: beware of silence. Because when you’re not controlling the message—when you’re allowing silence—you’re giving permission to other people to fill it in. And so there are things I’m just not going to talk about on social media. I’m pretty honest about a lot of things, but I don’t show my grandbabies’ faces because the parents have asked me not to. And I don’t talk about their names or who they are. We just don’t talk a lot about that. Same with my parents. My parents have asked me not to talk about them or where they live or anything like that. So I honor that. And so there are things I’m not going to talk about. But even things in my own life—people make assumptions based on what you don’t say. And what I’ve noticed is usually they assume you are up here and they’re down here. Audrey: Yep. Just because you’re sitting in front of a mic. Suzy: Oh yeah. Or they think, “Surely I have it all together,” and they are a hot mess. And I’m like, “Oh no. It’s probably the opposite. Opposite. But thanks.”   Audrey: The Adversary Attacks the Call Audrey: Yeah. Honestly, as soon as I start—when I have really big challenges—the first thing that the adversary wants to say to me is, “Who are you to be The Mission-Driven Mom? Who are you to hold yourself up like you’ve got it together?” And I shrink from the call. That’s the way he gets me, right? That I shrink from the call, like, “Yeah, you’re right. I don’t have any right to be doing this.” And I’ve never claimed to have it all together. It’s not like I claim that. Definitely we are still struggling along. I have to live the principles I teach every day, and when I do, they help me. And when I don’t, then I struggle. I totally, a hundred percent agree. It’s just—all that you and I are doing is trying to proclaim the message we feel in our hearts. That’s really what this is fundamentally about. And I talk about that in the book. All these people that I studied—it’s fascinating—because they always end up talking about a message they feel they’re called to convey from God. They’re messengers. And messengers don’t have to have it all figured out. And they don’t have to have all the answers, but you’re accountable for the message that you feel called to. So I have to deliver it or I’m not going to be able to live with myself. I’m going to feel like I’ve fallen down on what I was meant to do.   Suzy: Naming the Fight and The Screwtape Letters Suzy: I love what you said about the adversary. And do you know the book that helped me so much identify the adversary in my life? It’s C.S. Lewis’s The Screwtape Letters. Audrey: So good. So, so good. Suzy: And that being said, in 2 Timothy, Paul does speak very frankly to Timothy, his son in the faith, and really explains to him that the three things that we really contend against as believers are the world, our flesh, and then it’s the adversary. It’s the devil. Audrey: Yes. Yeah. Suzy: Those are the three things. Audrey: Yeah. Suzy: I find that very helpful to call it out. Like, what happened here? Was it the world? Was I tempted to fall into something I shouldn’t have? Was it my own flesh—most of the time that’s it—was it my own flesh? Or was it truly the adversary? Audrey: Yeah. Suzy: What was it? So anyway—Screwtape Letters. So good.   Audrey Shares Favorite Quotes and Transitions to Parenting Audrey: Okay. Before we finish, I want to do two things. Because so much of this really spoke to me, I’m just going to read a couple of my favorite quotes. Suzy: Oh, okay. Audrey: And then I want to talk for a minute before we finish about the parenting sections and your journey in teaching parents before this all came about, and your journey in parenting your own adult children. And maybe, as we finish up, some counsel for empty nesters—but maybe other moms too—about what it’s important to remember. And then of course, I’m just going to say it again: just go get her book. Even if you’re not there—get the book. You don’t have to do all the journaling. You could, you couldn’t, but it’s going to help you think about some things that you should be thinking about now that I wish I would’ve been thinking about 10 years ago. Okay. One favorite quote: “Remember, just like any other season of life, the blessings of the empty nest accompany the challenges.” And I know that’s born from all of the pain you’ve seen in so many of the women that you’ve worked with, that you’ve influenced, because there’s so much about it that seems so painful. I mentioned to you—I don’t know if I mentioned this or not—but I was recently on a podcast and we started talking about our families. And before we got on, he mentioned to me what so many people say: that they have grown children, and those grown children aren’t doing some of the things they want them to do, and his wife is constantly beating herself up about it. And that is such a common tale. And when my first child started telling me they were struggling with their faith, I turned it inward. I just beat myself up like mad and tried to think of all the reasons it was my fault and all the things I had done wrong—even though we read scripture and prayed daily and went to church every week. It’s not like we didn’t do the things. It’s not like I wasn’t trying to set a good example. And their journey is their journey. But again, I really related. And it’s so simple, but it’s so profound and important to remember that there are so many blessings that accompany those challenges, that heartache. And frankly, maybe a lot of those blessings are the personal growth that you’re going to experience as you work through some of your things—because that’s what’s happened to me. And then another favorite quote is in this great expectations section—because that resonated with me: “I’m just going to come right out and say it: unrealistic expectations will steal your joy.” Suzy: Steal your joy. Audrey: I talk so often about how comparison steals your joy. It’s like a quote we use in the Academy. We talk about that—stop comparing, you mentioned that—stop blaming, all those things. But I really didn’t get it until the last few years how much I was setting up expectations without even realizing I was doing it—how I was laying those on other people in very unfair ways. And it was stealing the joy that we could have been having in our relationship. My own personal—anyway. Nailed it. Totally nailed it. So those were a couple of my favorite quotes.   Suzy on Expectations, Faith, and Parenting Adult Children Suzy: Thank you. Yes—expectations and disappointment are huge. I’m actually really working on a blog post about that right now that’s going to come out in the next couple weeks on emptynestblessed.com, because I felt like I needed to write more about this. We are expectant. And I love that hymn, “Come Thou Long-Expected Jesus.” And we are taught to be expectant. There’s so much prophecy in scripture—being expectant. I do think that is in our hearts. And the Lord baked that into our DNA, and we are to be expectant. We look forward to heaven. We have expectations of what heaven will be like. It’s not going to be like what we think, but we still live in that hope of expectancy—of Christ’s return, or of our life in heaven, or whatever it is. So I do think we’re hardwired to be expectant— Audrey: And we’re future-oriented beings. Suzy: We are. And that’s for a reason. And that’s a good thing—to have goals, to be intentional, to think about the future. So expectations—when they are accompanied by disappointment—that’s when they can get you in trouble as a parent. So I talk about: be very careful about not putting expectations on your children. Your job is to really say, “Lord, here they are. We did our best. You are right with us. We tried to be obedient sinners raising little sinners, and we give them to You, and You love them more than we do. You have a plan, and I trust You.” And so it’s really an exercise in your own faith and trusting. And really, if you’re going to have expectations—let me tell you—put them on yourself. And I talk in the book about: I have two expectations for myself every time my kids come home. One is that our home would be joyful and fun. That they would feel welcomed—loved, loved on, hugged—happy, excited to be home. I’m not going to compete with the in-laws for who gets you at holidays. I’m just going to make our house super fun so you want to come. That’s one expectation I have for myself. The second is: when my kids come, they will leave loved up. They will feel encouraged. They will feel happy. They will feel heard, listened to. I will not go in with my own agenda. I’m not going to go in with my own agenda. I’m going to be others-oriented. And I’m going to support them and be all about them—not shift the focus onto myself, but instead be in that support mode, being that joy booster in their life, not the joy buster that’s critical, or gives suggestions or advice that is not asked for. Audrey: Yeah. It’s inappropriate. Suzy: And let me tell you—you’ve got to be kind of hard on yourself when you become a parent of adult children, because you cannot—I cannot say this strongly enough, and I’m trying to be cute and fun about everything—but hear me now on this: You cannot continue parenting your children the way you always parented them. You are not to give advice without being asked. Do not give a suggestion, because that’s just another form of advice. Because they hear that as: you are incapable. You do not have the ability to handle this. I have to, and I don’t trust you. Instead, it should be: “I feel like, with all you’ve gone through in your life, you have the ability to figure this out.” And what you can bring to them as a parent—what their tribe, their friends don’t bring—is you raised them. We were with our daughter a couple weeks ago and she was giving me this example: something happened with this friend and she tried to be a really great friend, but she wasn’t really reciprocating, and she wasn’t sure if she went too far. And I said, “You know what? You have always been a good friend.” And I was like, “Back in second grade you…” And she was just like, “Really?” She didn’t remember that happened. So you can tell these stories from their childhood and bring into the conversation: “Yeah, you were always like this. You were always fun-loving,” or “You were always so empathetic to others.” And yes—you are a good friend. So in the book, at one point, I give 50 traits you can encourage in your adult kids. And so I said to her, “You’re a good friend, and you are always a good friend. It is good to be a friend of Becca’s. It is good. And I hope I’m a friend of yours, honey, because you are such a good friend.” And so that’s the second expectation. When they’re with you, they leave built up—feeling stronger, empowered, prayed for, loved on. Audrey: Yeah. Suzy: And so expectations—put them right here. Take them to the Lord and put them on yourself. Do not put them on your children. He’s theirs—I mean, they’re His. And He is more than capable. And if you keep taking them back, I would challenge you to work through that with the Lord, because it is a faith issue. It is a lack of trust in Him and His sovereignty and His love. And you need to work through that. So that said, I’m not perfect. You’re not perfect. We all struggle with that. When we’re with our kids, we see things and we do tend to blame ourselves—whether it’s as simple as, “I didn’t teach them to be a very good cook,” or you see self-centeredness or impulsive speech or something that you’re like, “Darn it, we worked on that. How did this happen?” And yet the Lord will work in their lives. And I’m sitting here before you saying I’m 60, and you’re sitting where you are, Audrey—much younger than me—but we can both say the Lord is still at work refining us. Audrey: Yes. Suzy: And refining is hard work and it’s painful, and He uses fire, and it’s humbling—but He’s refining us. So He has that same plan for your children. And you have to work—switching the way you parent. I’m telling you this strongly: you’re going to lose your children. You’ll lose them if you cannot change the way you parent and stop giving unsolicited advice. And guess what? If you do that with your grandkids and start talking to them about the way they parent, you’re going to lose the grandkids too. Audrey: Yeah. Suzy: And this is serious. This is serious as a heart attack. You’ve got to work on this. And do the work.   Audrey’s Closing + How to Find Suzy Audrey: Yes. Amen. Amen and amen. Such good advice. So many great things. Ugh. I haven’t been able to finish it. I’m just going to keep going through it, doing the exercises—such beautiful advice. So, Suzy—where can our moms find you? Where can they get the book? What are some of your offerings? I know there’s a blog, there are other socials. Just tell us all the ways that they can be blessed by your ministry—which it really is a ministry.   Suzy’s Resources and Where to Get the Book Suzy: Oh, thank you. I hope that it is. I hope all of life is our ministry, truly. And I think living with that mission-driven, ministry-driven mindset is so powerful. And He can use that. And I pray He does every day. Audrey: Yeah. Suzy: And I know He is using you, my friend. You can find me—my home base is emptynestblessed.com. When you get there, do not expect that you’re going to have some sort of deep conversation that we just had. You will find that, but you’ll also find the fun fall fashion. You will find my favorite beauty devices. You will find my travel adventures. You’ll find 68 great date night ideas for empty nesters. Audrey: Oh fun. I didn’t see that one. Suzy: Wow. That was on my Instagram today—five fun fall date night ideas for empty nesters. And then I offered a freebie that you can get, which is 68 great date night ideas for empty nesters. So you’ll see things that are for the total woman. And that does include parenting. It does include finding your purpose in the empty nest, but it also includes all these other things that we love so much—taking great care of our bodies, staying healthy and getting all your checkups and all those things. So emptynestblessed.com. You can sign up for my newsletter there. I do a Friday fun newsletter. We do have a lot of fun on Empty Nest Blessed. I will mostly tell stories about myself doing dumb stuff—stuff like we closed on our house last Monday. This is the house we built in 2004. We raised our kids in. I’m embarrassed to say that I was in there with my very manly husband or two very manly real estate agents, and I cried through the entire thing. Audrey: Aw. Suzy: Did not plan to. Didn’t think I was going to bawl through the entire thing. I mean like messy cry, not pretty. So I told that story in my newsletter this week. So I’m always telling crazy stories about myself that hopefully people feel better about how they are. Anyway, so sign up for my newsletter. I’m on Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, and YouTube: @EmptyNestBlessed. Audrey: Perfect. Suzy: Embarrassingly easy to find—@EmptyNestBlessed. Emptynestblessed.com. The book is emptynestblessed.com/book, or it’s on Amazon—audiobook read by me, or ebook, or hardback. Audrey: Nice. Suzy: Makes a great gift. But as you said, it’s new empty nesters all the way to longtime empty nest. Audrey: And honestly, it’s going to be a Christmas gift to several people I know. Suzy: Oh, thank you. Audrey: And in this case—I mean, I’m sure the audiobook is wonderful, but the hard copy’s great, because there’s journaling pages all the way through. I mean, I’m a hardback kind of a girl anyway. Suzy: I get it. Yeah. The audiobook does come with a workbook, so you will get that as well. Audrey: Oh, nice. Suzy: Well, and so that’s a helpful thing, I hope. Audrey: Yeah. Yeah. That’s awesome. Final Thanks and Goodbye Audrey: Suzy, it’s been a joy. I am so grateful that you came today and spent the time to talk to us and share your wisdom. There’s so much more we can learn. Go follow her blog and get her newsletter so you can participate in all of the wisdom that she has to share. So grateful for you and for your work. Thank you so much for being with us today. Suzy: More to come with you, my friend. We will do some fun stuff—we’ve already talked about—on emptynestblessed.com. Audrey: Yeah, that’ll be great. Suzy: See you there. And praising the Lord for a sweet friendship with you. Audrey: Yeah. Yeah. Grateful. Suzy: Yeah. Audrey: I feel the exact same way. Thank you.

Have you ever felt like you’re “just a mom”… even though you’re doing one of the most important jobs in the world? In this episode of The Mission-Driven Mom Podcast, Audrey Rindlisbacher speaks to the quiet identity loss so many mothers experience and why modern motherhood often leaves women feeling unseen, depleted, and unsure of who they are becoming. This episode explores: • why so many moms feel invisible and exhausted • how culture and education failed to prepare women for motherhood • what it really means to move beyond “just a mom” • the six traits of a mission-driven mother • how to reclaim purpose, confidence, and identity without leaving motherhood If you love your children but know there must be more than burnout and self-sacrifice, this conversation is for you. Listen now and begin the journey from “just a mom” to a mission-driven mother. ___________________________________________________________________ Join Us for Mothers of Creation We want you to be a Mother of Creation ALL YEAR LONG!  So we're offering something special we've never done before... "Sneak Peek" Workshop & Private Community! From now until the September event, when you sign up you'll have access to this in-depth introduction to the Mothers of Creation content and you'll be mentored all year in a private community as you learn and practice some of the principles we'll cover at the event.  Learn More Here ___________________________________________________________________ AI GENERATED TRANSCRIPT Introduction Welcome back to the podcast. I’m Audrey Rindlisbacher, author of The Mission-Driven Life and founder of The Mission-Driven Mom. Did you know that one in four moms feel they’ve lost their identity outside of motherhood and feel like they’re “just a mom”? This feeling increases the longer they are parents, and there’s a much larger majority—79 to 94 percent—who feel that their identity beyond motherhood is minimized or invisible. Many mothers struggle with putting themselves last, with a third of the group deprioritizing self-care, leading to burnout where their identity feels reduced to “just mom.” If you sometimes feel alone in this journey—if you feel like you are not affirmed by the world around you for the incredibly hard work that you do as a mom—if you don’t know how to fix this for yourself, how to move forward in a way that allows you to show up with optimism and energy for yourself and your family, and also feel like you’re making headway as a woman—if you worry that your own hopes and aspirations are getting lost in your motherhood—then this podcast is for you. This is for you, Mission-Driven Mom, and especially this episode about going beyond “just a mom” to becoming a mission-driven mother.   A Look Back: Why Modern Motherhood Feels Empty Last week, we talked about why modern motherhood can make us feel empty. I shared three reasons why that’s the case, the problems it causes, and how it makes us feel. I also gave you some solutions for how to move forward. Today, I want to tell you three things. If you feel like you’re “just a mom,” if you feel like your identity as a woman is getting lost in the motherhood shuffle, if you are not making your needs known or acting on them, if you aren’t sure how to move forward—if you are like Valerie, who I quoted last week, one of our students who said she had a wonderful, beautiful family but wasn’t happy and didn’t know why—if those things resonate with you, then there are three really important things that you absolutely need to know.   Leanna’s Story and the Power of Becoming a Creator Before I get into that, if you tuned in last week, you heard a short story about Leanna and how learning to be a creator—understanding drama and teaching that to her family—literally revolutionized her home. I’m not exaggerating. She shared a beautiful story about how this work restructured her relationships, elevated her motherhood, and empowered her children and her entire family with a shared language.   Announcing the Return of the MDM Celebration: Mothers of Creation Because of stories like that, we are reinstituting our MDM Celebration. We are bringing it back. This year’s theme is Mothers of Creation. It will take place in the fall, but we’re starting the conversation now, and we don’t want you to miss it. I want you to be there on Thursday the 29th—coming up very soon—for a workshop. After that, you’ll be added to an exclusive community. This will be a sneak peek for the event. From now on, anyone who signs up for the Celebration event will be able to attend this live sneak-peek workshop or view the recording, and then be part of this mentored, exclusive community all year long.   Why We’re Starting the Work Now Throughout the year, we’ll do a drip experience on concepts and principles from the event. We’ll practice them. We’ll deep dive. One of the reasons we decided to do this is because as I was reviewing all the content we’re going to cover in the fall, I realized there is so much. I kept thinking, “This is such an important concept—we could practice this for months—but I only have time to gloss over it.” I can teach the concept, but then we have to move on. If you’re part of this exclusive community—if you attend the workshop, learn the kickoff material, and then engage in the community all year—you will literally be becoming a Mother of Creation throughout the year. And it will culminate in our in-person event, which I believe is the last Saturday in September. So go to themissiondrivenmom.com, head to the conference page, and sign up. The sooner, the better—because every day you wait is a day you’re not being mentored, supported, and lifted by this community of women, and a day you’re not becoming a Mother of Creation.   What We’ll Cover in the Workshop Here are a few things we’re going to cover in the workshop. We’ll go over the origin of the Drama Triangle, which is actually fascinating. We’ll talk about what the Drama Triangle is and why it matters so much. We’ll help you understand the victim role in particular—how you show up as a victim in everyday life and what that looks like. Then we’ll talk about the different types of victims. This is a key element that we will not have much time to explore in September, so I’m especially excited for you to get a jump start on this. We’ll talk about the types of victims, why they matter, and which one you tend to show up as. We’ll discern how that becomes your way of being and give you the antidote—so you know how to get yourself out of victimhood. Then Lindsey Wright—who we all know is one of the most incredible mentors in the world—will guide you all year inside the community. You’ll practice these concepts, read together, discuss them, and grow. It’s going to be incredible. Think of it as a mini Academy experience—small, digestible pieces of information you can practice all year, with community support around you.   What This Experience Will Do for You This experience will do three things for you. It will jumpstart the content so you’re engaging with it all year long. It will give you a deeper dive into the material we’ll cover at the event. And it will provide mentoring and community support so you can become the creator you want to be.   Going Beyond “Just a Mom”: A Personal Story Now, as we talk about what it means to go beyond being “just a mom” and step into becoming a mission-driven mother, I want to share a personal story—one I think many of you may relate to. Hopefully you haven’t experienced it the way I did, but I believe you’ll understand the feelings behind it. To the mom who sees herself as “just a mom,” here are the three things you need to know.   My Early Marriage and Motherhood Reality As I’ve shared many times—because it’s part of my story, and it was a very painful part of my story—my husband struggled with a pornography addiction. It was particularly severe early in our marriage. Two weeks after we were married, I had surgery, and the doctor told us to get pregnant right away. My pregnancies were brutal. I was completely laid up. I lost a lot of weight. I was hospitalized with my second pregnancy. It improved somewhat with the last two, but overall, they were incredibly difficult. On our first anniversary, I was eight months pregnant, and we continued having babies. My husband went straight into real estate—a 100 percent commission-based career—so our income was very unstable as he learned the industry. Meanwhile, I had surgery, got pregnant immediately, became very sick, quit school, and quit work. I had spent several years at a good university, but I never finished my degree. I didn’t have strong marketable skills, and I didn’t want to leave my babies anyway.   The Accumulation of Pressure We already had one child, and I didn’t want them to grow up alone. It mattered deeply to me that my children be close and become friends. So we kept going. Our children ended up being spaced about two to three years apart because the pregnancies were so hard. At the same time, finances were difficult. Our marriage was difficult. Becoming a new mom was difficult. And both of our extended families were struggling. My parents were separated and going through a very hard time. Blaine’s parents divorced during our early years of marriage. It was layer upon layer of difficulty. Eventually, I reached a breaking point. I felt depleted. I felt brain-dead. I felt overwhelmed. I hit a wall and realized how unprepared I was—to manage my emotions, my thoughts, my time, my finances, extended family relationships, and the addiction we were dealing with in our marriage.   The Breaking Point One day—honestly, I don’t even remember what triggered it—I think Blaine may have acted out or something had happened between us. He came out one morning ready for work, we exchanged words, and I followed him into the garage. When he turned around and questioned me, I slapped him across the face. That was the only time I’ve ever struck someone, and it was a huge wake-up call for both of us. He was stunned. He just stood there staring at me. I couldn’t believe what I had done. He got in the car and left.   The First Step Toward Change To his credit, he loved God deeply. He loved me. He loved our children. And he truly wanted things to be better. When he arrived at the office, he got on his knees, begged God for guidance, opened the phone book, and called a therapist. That therapy wasn’t particularly helpful. Many of the therapies, support groups, and books we tried weren’t helpful either. I searched relentlessly for answers, and nothing seemed to work. Then I found this education. That’s when everything began to change.   Transformation Over Time Within a few years of that moment—of slapping Blaine across the face in utter desperation—I was running a book club in my home with over fifty people attending every week. Our marriage was in a much better place. We were in our own home. Our finances had improved. We still had rough patches. We still had growth to do—and we still do—but within a few short years, that transformation occurred. The book club led to building a homeschool organization, which eventually served over a hundred families.   Why I’m Telling You This I’m telling you this because you might look at me now and think, “Well, Audrey has a podcast, she built an academy, she mentors women—I could never do that.” First of all, that might not even be your calling or where your gifts lie. But that’s not the point. The point is that the things we teach women are the same things that changed me. I know they work because they transformed my life. Over time, those tools led to other projects, and eventually to founding The Mission-Driven Mom. Today, we’ve helped over 600 women.   The Three Things You Need to Know And what I want you to know—I’m going to tell you these three things because no matter how stuck you feel, and no matter how much you feel like “just a mom” right now, there are three things that are absolutely true that you need to know.   Truth #1: Motherhood Is Courageous The first one that you need to know is a quote by Gilda Radner. She said, “Motherhood is the biggest gamble in the world. It is the glorious life force. It’s huge and scary. It’s an act of infinite optimism.” I’m going to read it one more time: “Motherhood is the biggest gamble in the world. It is the glorious life force. It’s huge and scary. It’s an act of infinite optimism.” If you listened to a podcast that I did recently for people who are thinking about not having children, you heard in that podcast a lot that I have to say about how courageous it is to be a mother. It is one of the most courageous things that you can ever do. I want to read you some things that I wrote about you. You took the risk of engaging in the messy business of raising children. Only you know how incredible and frightening this journey is. You give it your all. You are determined to see your children become individuals of faith and virtue and character and courage, and you are willing to sacrifice anything to build the best world possible for your children to inherit. I know that that’s who you are, and I know that what you need and want is balance—because you want to be an excellent mother, and you want personal development. You want self-acceptance and courage. You want to be seen and matter and belong, but you also want to grow and thrive and succeed. And all of these desires are the kinds of things that we open the door for at The Mission-Driven Mom. Even if you just listened to this podcast and read the book and got serious—and you can get the book for free at The Mission-Driven Mom—and got serious about living those 7 Laws of Life mission and got serious about being a truth seeker, you can become more than you are. You can find that balance. A mission-driven mom is a movement of mothers who are working together to create a better world for our children and grandchildren by gaining the education which we never had, which ennobles us to lead ourselves and our families and our communities with truth. That is what we’re doing here. We are linking arms and we are working together. We are gaining the right kind of education, which we never had. We are pushing back on the culture that tells us that what we do isn’t of value, and we are ennobled by these choices to lead ourselves, to lead our families, and to lead our communities.   What It Means to Be Ennobled When I started thinking about these concepts—and we have some rebranding coming for The Mission-Driven Mom, which I’m super excited about, and we’re going to talk more in detail about what that branding means—the word ennoble is part of that rebranding, and I want to talk to you about what being ennobled means. To ennoble someone is to lead them to greater dignity or nobility of character. It means to elevate them—make them more honorable, dignified, or excellent. Often through a great deed or by imparting a higher moral quality. It signifies making someone better or more worthy of admiration, whether through suffering, talent, or virtuous actions—elevating their character or status. That is what we do for each other at The Mission-Driven Mom. We ennoble each other. The things that we read, the actions that we take, the accountability partners that we have, the workshops that we attend, the discussions that we engage in, the community service work, the read-alouds with our children, the things that we do in the community, in the MDM Academy, on this podcast, in our events—they are all structured to ennoble all of us, for all of us to be elevated in these beautiful, rich ways. And if we are going to be ennobled to lead ourselves and our families and our communities with truth, it’s important to remember that truth is the quality of being in accord with reality. It’s what is actual, genuine, and honest—the opposite of falsehood and deception. This is who you are. So the first thing I want to tell you is: you are this kind of woman. I know that’s what’s in you. I know those are the things that you want and need. I know those are the things that you’re looking for. I know that you’re like us and you want to be ennobled, and you want that balance—but I also know that you already have a high moral quality because you’re here, because you’re listening, because you’re seeking, and because you want more. And there’s that hope that things could be better. And that hope comes from knowing that there is truth, and that it can make us free. And as we are truth seekers, we can find the truth, and it will make us free.   Truth #2: You Can Become More Than You Feel Right Now So the second thing I want to tell you is the result of that—of knowing the quality of woman that you are and the desires that are in your heart. You may feel just like a mom, but you can do all sorts of things that right now might feel impossible to do—but you really can. And I’m going to list some of these things that I have seen women do, that I have done myself, and that I know that you can do. You can learn to solve your significant problems. You can restore your closest relationships. You can gain deep self-knowledge and self-acceptance. You can love and like yourself. You can link arms with moms and make a difference. You can discern the truth in our confusing culture. You can be enlightened and lifted out of your problems and into your dreams and potential. You can become the example you want to be for your children. You can help us restore virtue to our communities. You can make unique and meaningful contributions. You can discover your unique gifts and use them to serve. You can belong and flourish in a community of noble women. I know that you can. I have seen hundreds of women do this—women just like you and just like me. In that moment where you’re slapping your husband across the face because you’re absolutely at your total and complete wits’ end—you have no idea how to move forward in your life. You have no idea where the answers are. And I know there’s all kinds of garbage out there that’s telling you that it has the answers. And I know you’ve tried things, and some of them might have worked a little bit and some of them haven’t worked. And if you’re feeling like “just a mom” and you’re feeling discouraged, I want to tell you that you are an incredible woman, and you can become more. If you have the right tools and resources, you can become the kind of woman I know you want to be.   Truth #3: You Can Become a Mission-Driven Mom The third thing I want to tell you is that as you take actions to be a truth seeker, as you plug into the 7 Laws of Life mission, as you seek truth, as you grab classics, as you engage in self-knowledge and self-discovery—you will be moving toward the six traits of a mission-driven mother, and you can become a truly mission-driven mom. What is a mission-driven mom? How do we go from “just a mom” to a mission-driven mom? We understand that our dreams are the most noble part of us. That the things that we want are attainable. We latch onto that hope and we take steps in faith, and we take the actions to live the 7 Laws of Life mission that help us to become mission-driven mothers. Here are the six traits of a mission-driven mom.   The Six Traits of a Mission-Driven Mom Trait #1: She Draws Worth From God Number one, she is connected to God and draws her sense of value and worth from Him. You are not taking the cue from your own terrible self-talk—because I’ve had all the terrible self-talk, and I know the way that we talk to ourselves, and it’s a bunch of lies. You’re not going to draw your worth from your spouse, or from your friends, or from our culture, or from your children or their choices, or from your talents, or from the money that you earn, or from where you are in your career—none of that matters. Your worth is being drawn from the infinite Being who created you, who knows and loves you, who accepts you completely and entirely, and loves you completely and entirely as you are in this moment—and who wants to walk with you on a journey of self-discovery, where you figure out how much more you can be, because you’re doing it for you and you’re doing it to be the example that your children need. If you need to say that you’re doing it for your children, go ahead and say that. I’ve said it plenty of times—because they need a mom who’s on fire. They need a mom who knows who she is, who leads herself and her family, and who leads in her community using her gifts with confidence, who has like-minded friends with like-minded families, who links arms with them and goes out there and confidently shares truth.   Trait #2: She Has Confidence Rooted in Truth So the second trait of a mission-driven mom is that she has confidence in herself and her choices because of the truths that she learns and lives. You do not have to have all the answers all the time in order to be a great, confident leader—in order to make decisions that you feel good about. You just need to understand what truth is. You need to know what principles are, and then know how to discover and lean into them, and you will be able to make decisions and move forward and lead yourself and others.   Trait #3: She Is Intentional With Time and Energy The third trait is that mission-driven moms are intentional with their time and energy, and they utilize them to love themselves and others. We talk about this a lot in the Academy—that love is an action. It’s something that you choose to do, and the feelings of love follow the actions of love. And so no matter how you feel about yourself or someone else in your life, you choose love—and you understand that everything that you do in the name of love, or that other people do in the name of love, is not loving. So you pay the price to become acquainted with the true nature of love, and you love by living principles, and you’re intentional in using your time and energy to love. Mother Teresa said, “Our mission is to convey God’s love,” and these truths are His truths. And so as we disseminate them and align our lives with them, we are actually following God and partnering with Him in our lives. And then it enables us to love properly, instead of doing all kinds of unhealthy things or having unhealthy things done to us and not knowing what to do about them.   Trait #4: She Develops and Uses Her Gifts The fourth trait: a mission-driven mom knows her greatest gifts. She actively develops them, and she uses them in the service of others. You can do this. I was on so many podcasts the last few months, and often the host or hostess would say at the end, “Well, what do you want to leave with our audience?” And I almost always said the same kind of thing: You are way more gifted than you think you are. Because I was where you are. I had 15 years of formal education—and I said this last week—and I just didn’t have any idea what I was good at. I knew I had some special interests. I loved studying art history, but I wasn’t an artist. I loved listening to great music, but I wasn’t a musician. And I wasn’t a great accountant, and I didn’t think I could be a great attorney—so what was there for me to be and do? And there are so many things. That’s why there are so many self-discovery activities all throughout the MDM Academy—because it’s so important that you know yourself really well. Mission-driven moms know what they’re good at. They’re developing their talents and using them to serve. And can you imagine the rich example this sets for your children? Like, motherhood is awesome and womanhood is awesome and adulthood is awesome. And sometimes my parents fight and sometimes my mom cries, but she picks herself back up and then she’s stronger for the trial, and she figures out new ways to problem solve. I know that’s what you want. That’s who you want to be. That’s what you want to give your family.   Trait #5: She Lives With Purpose and Goals The fifth trait is feeling a strong sense of purpose and fulfillment every day as you work toward predetermined goals. This is where, you know, being a mother—I don’t know, can anything outshine that sense of purpose that motherhood brings? Probably not. But it doesn’t fill up every single space in our hearts and minds. We have a responsibility to do that for ourselves. We have a responsibility to ourselves—to know ourselves and to find deeper meaning and purpose by setting and working toward goals, meaningful goals that enrich us and the people around us. And the Academy also helps you do that. We talk a lot about not only finding and writing actionable principles, but we talk a lot about application of principles and tool sets for living them out—for what we call practicing principles. And as you learn how to find principles and practice them, then your goals become very obvious, and you work toward living those principles more fully.   Trait #6: She Brings Her Family Along The sixth trait of a mission-driven mom is that she teaches her family what she’s learning as she grows and leads them on their mission-driven journey together. She understands the importance—like Leanna from last week’s podcast, and like so many other testimonials we’ve received from our moms—that you bring your family on this journey. That’s why we have read-alouds in Level One—so that you can pick a really awesome book off the shelf, and we know that it’s saturated with the principles that you’ve learned, and you can, through storytelling and bonding and snuggling and time together, pass those principles on to your children and create discussion points and all of that. But in the end, a mission-driven mom continues to teach her family. I remember being at an event a few years ago with one of our moms who was, I think, partway through Level Two or something. And at this event, it was fascinating—because one of her biggest takeaways was that she had not been teaching her family all of the things she had been learning. And so her big plan—her way of having greater purpose and being more intentional with her time and energy and loving them more—was to go home and teach them more of what she’d learned. That’s what mission-driven moms do.   Closing Encouragement and Invitation So I want you to know three things: that you are courageous, incredible, and that those deep desires that you have to chase your potential while you level up as a mom are the best part of you. They’re noble, and I know that that’s what you desire. The second thing I want you to know is that you can do that. It’s not just that that’s what you want. It’s not just that even though you feel like “just a mom” and you feel stuck, and you just hope that you could become that—you can. I have watched women do all of those things. You can. And I want you to know that those six traits of a mission-driven mom are the goalpost for you. That’s where we’re all headed, and we’re all doing those things—inculcating those traits into our character line upon line, bit by bit, day by day. That’s the aspiration that we’re all striving toward, and we become ennobled and we ennoble each other as we strive to become a more mission-driven mom. And so as you set those six traits in front of you, and as you make a determination to become not “just a mom,” but a mission-driven mom, it will transform you. So as we finish up here, I want to end with reinforcing again that yes, you can become a noble, virtuous, intentional wife and mother. Yes, you can be a great mother and woman. Yes, you can put yourself and your family first. Yes, you can discover and use your gifts to serve in your community. And yes—you’re the only one that needs to change. And what’s so great about that is that you’re the only one that you can change. And you have so much more power than you think you do. You can transform yourself and your family—and believe it or not, your community. I hope that those words of encouragement sink down into your heart. Listen to this again and again if it helps you. And remember that we believe in you. We know what an incredible woman you are, and we are here to help and support you in any and all of the ways that we possibly can to help you become more of that mission-driven mother that you want to be. Make sure, if you’ve not already signed up, that you head over to themissiondrivenmom.com, go to the conference page, and sign up so that I can see you at the workshop on the 29th, and you can become part of that community and become more of a Mother of Creation—more of a creator in your own life—all throughout this whole year. It’s going to be a phenomenal journey, and I don’t want you to miss any of it. Thank you so much for joining me here today.   Next Week: Interview Preview I have great news. Next week, you can look forward to an interview with a woman named Suzy Mighell, who I was very honored to meet. This one is especially for empty nesters, but I want every one of you to listen carefully, because I wish I would’ve known what she was teaching 10 years ago, and I wish I would’ve known how to prepare better for moving toward adult children and empty nesting—because I was not well prepared enough. And it has been a bumpy road for me. And we’re going to smooth that road with this interview. You can go grab her book as well: Empty Nest Blessed. You can check her out—her name is Suzy Mighell. We will be talking next week all about how to prepare for that time period, what’s so beautiful and rich about it, and how you can continue to level up as a woman and as a mother all the rest of your life. Looking forward to that discussion with her. I will see you then.  

Modern motherhood can feel like a loop: endless meals, endless messes, endless decisions… and somehow, you end the day feeling more empty than when you started. If you’ve ever wondered, “Is this all?” This episode will put language to what you’re carrying, and give you a real path forward. In today’s podcast, I walk you through three specific reasons modern motherhood leaves moms empty and the solutions that actually work. You’ll also hear personal stories (including my homeschooling journey and what it taught me about confidence, truth, and courage), plus practical, actionable steps you can take immediately, starting with what you read, what you surround yourself with, and how you begin the journey of self-discovery with your children beside you.  Important invitation: If you’re coming to MDM Celebration in Utah on Saturday, September 26, your ticket now includes something powerful: ✨ a live sneak peek workshop on January 29 ✨ and a mentored community that carries you all the way to the event Grab your ticket and join us (and invite your sisters, friends, mom, grandma, nieces—everyone who needs shared language and real tools). Go to themissiondrivenmom.com and click Conference. And tell me in the comments: Which of the three are you working on first: culture, education, or self-discovery? ___________________________________________________________ 📚 Recommended Reads Cure for The Common Life by Max Lucado ___________________________________________________________ 💛 Join us for the Mothers of Creation Conference, Sneak Peek Call, & Mentoring Community ___________________________________________________________ Transcript (AI Generated) Introduction: Why Modern Motherhood Feels Heavy Welcome back to the podcast. I’m Audrey Rindlisbacher, the author of The Mission Driven Life, and the founder of The Mission Driven Mom. I am so excited for you to join me today. We are going to talk about a topic that’s a little bit heavy, one that weighs on our hearts as mothers: why modern motherhood leaves us empty. And I have some really important things to talk to you about—three specific reasons why modern motherhood leaves us empty. I’ve also got some results of that emptiness and some solutions for you. And we’re going to get into that in just a minute. I want to tell you a couple of personal stories, tell you about some of our students’ experiences, and give you some tasks—some actionable steps you can take—when we’re done here. Announcement: MDM Celebration, Workshop, and Community But first, I have to tell you about this opportunity I don’t want you to miss. If you’ve been around for very long, you know that for a few years we did what’s called the MDM Celebration, and it’s been in Utah and it’s been in Texas. We’ve reintroduced it. It’s going to be in Utah again. The venue there is fantastic, and we have quite a large following all along the West Coast, so we’re going to be back in Utah on September 26th—that Saturday. We started selling tickets, and they’ve been selling well, and I’m super excited to see you there. But we added something additional, and some of you may not know this, so I want to make sure you’re aware of it. We have added a sneak peek workshop and a year-long community. This is a mentored community that’s going to be available from the moment you sign up all the way through the event in September. This is important because as Mothers of Creation, it’s not just going to happen overnight. We have so much content, and as I was going through it, I thought, wow—what if we could get a head start on this? What if we could start learning it now? What if we could be practicing some of the key concepts all throughout the year, becoming Mothers of Creation? Then when we get to the event, we’ll just hit the ground running and put our plans together. We’ll have our declaration statement—our creator declaration statement—all tied up by the end of the day, and you’ll be off to the races. So what we’ve done is this: on January 29th, Lindsay and I are going to give a workshop in our MDM community, and there’s a private, exclusive-access group in the community for those who are coming to the celebration. All you have to do is get a ticket to the celebration, and this workshop and the mentored community—all throughout the rest of the year leading up to the event—are available to you. Some of the things we’re going to cover in this workshop are the origins of the drama triangle, what drama is and why it matters, how drama shows up in your everyday life, and the types of victims. This is really unique. I don’t know anyone else who teaches this, aside from a few places where you can get a little bit of information in the TED community, but we’ve put our own spin on it. We’ve also come up with antidotes. We’re going to help you identify the type of victim you show up as, how you show up as that type of victim, the antidote for that, and how to snap out of victimhood. Then you’re going to be in this mentored community with other attendees. You’ll meet them, collaborate with them, and be mentored. Lindsay is going to mentor that group for the rest of the year and take you through additional content in the community. You do not want to miss it. I’ll put the description below the podcast, or you can go to themissiondrivenmom.com, click on “Conference,” and sign up so you don’t miss that Thursday night, January 29th workshop. If for some reason you can’t make it live, don’t worry—it’s recorded, so you can hop into the community anytime. Whenever you sign up for the event, you can watch the recording and join the community. And you are going to want your girlfriends, your sisters, your mother, and your grandmother to participate in this opportunity. It will give you shared language, help you support each other, and help you really infuse your home with a creator mindset. Student Story: Leanna and the Power of Shared Language I want to tell you about one of our students, Leanna, and what she shared with us a few years ago. Of course, she had a deep dive in creator orientation, as well as many other awesome principles in the Academy, so she’s coming from that perspective. But we are covering this content at this event. Here’s what she said. She said it’s given us a common language. She’s talking about the Academy and understanding drama and creator orientation. She said the principle that is the opposite of victim is creator. It blew my mind wide open, and it blew my relationships wide open with my children. Just the other day, I was having a hard day. I was tired, stressed, under pressure, and I was being impatient with my children—and they could feel it. My oldest came to me and said, “Okay, Mom, I want to create right now. I want to be a creator.” Why could her son say that? Because she had been teaching them the principles. She had taught her family how to be creators instead of victims. Her son said, “I want to be kind and find someone to serve. I’m going to give you a big hug.” He came over, gave me a hug, and asked, “Can I make you some breakfast?” I said yes. What was so powerful about that—this is still Leanna talking—was that it was really sweet, of course, but the power behind it was that I had learned that principle and that language, and I had taught it to my kids. It gave our whole family a common language we could use. They knew I wasn’t perfect. I could talk to them about my struggles, and then they could come help and serve me when I needed it. Right away, it melted me. I thought, I’m being a victim right now, and because I’m being a victim, I’m also being a persecutor to everyone around me. Instantly, I thought, okay, how am I going to create? I hugged my son back and said, “I’m going to make breakfast with you.” We turned on music, had a dance party in the kitchen, and it changed the entire day. That’s the power. Every day I’m trying to apply those principles, and it’s been really life-changing. Setting the Stage: Why Mothers Feel Empty Alright, let’s talk for the next few minutes about why modern motherhood is leaving mothers empty. I was reading an article the other day, and I want to read you just the first part because it really sets the stage. This is from the blog of Sarah E. Frazer. “As we left the kids with my parents and in-laws—we now have to divide them up, since we have five kids—I felt a sense of relief, like a burden was being lifted off my shoulders. My husband and I were going out of town without the kids. Freedom. We both giggled like newlyweds. As we drove off, we spent our vacation sleeping in each morning, relaxing by the pool, and talking with no interruptions. I didn’t have to cut up food or get five other plates ready before sitting down to my cold meal. When we wanted to just sit, I could close my eyes and enjoy the quiet without having to keep an eye on a little one for seven days. We enjoyed talking to each other, reading, and eating together in peace. Only, that’s not my regular life. In fact, my house is pretty loud and crazy in this season right now.” Motherhood is not for the faint of heart. Amen. For you new moms out there, I feel you. The routine of it all is enough to make our hearts restless. Did we really sign up for this day after day? The same seemingly empty tasks feel incomplete, leaving us feeling empty. Endless meals, dirty clothes, and constant decisions can make us feel useless. All we want is an escape. I’ve felt this. I’ve been guilty of surfing the internet, flipping through social media, and watching pointless videos just to escape the moment. Motherhood can leave me empty. The natural tendency of my heart is to feel empty and immediately want to fill it—frantically. I look around thinking maybe buying more things, planning more trips, exercising, or having a job will fill the emptiness. But it doesn’t. That’s exactly what we’re talking about. And I’m going to give you three reasons why this is happening to modern women. It’s not that women in the past never felt emptiness or struggle, but there are specific things that have been taken from us—ways our culture has shifted—that are making it harder. Cultural Pressure and the Loss of Validation The culture is not proud of us. In fact, sometimes it thinks that we are not doing enough. Sometimes even our husbands think that if we don’t go out into the workforce and earn a lot of money, we are not doing our job. We are not doing enough. Now, not that you can’t be a working mom—it’s just that we feel unappreciated. We feel invalidated. And really, one of the only rewards for us is the love of our own children and the fulfillment we feel from doing that job. Sometimes we wonder if we’ve even done the right thing. We feel pressured to perform in the marketplace, earn money, or justify our choices because of what the feminist movement did to our culture. So the solution to this first problem is for us to link arms and change the narrative, and that’s what The Mission Driven Mom is doing. That’s our mission and message—that motherhood matters, and that we can link arms as we build principle-centered homes. We can also lift our culture, make it more principle-centered, and rewrite the story of what femininity is, what motherhood means, and why it matters so much. And we have a vested interest—maybe more than anybody else—because we know we are building the world our children will live in. So we can push back. We can reaffirm the incredible courage it takes to be a mother, how vital it is, and what it means to be the best mother you can be. I talked about this last week—what it does for you in so many meaningful ways. Student Story: Valerie and the “Problem That Has No Name” One of our students shared this—her name is Valerie Kinkcaid. This is what she said: “I’m almost done with Level One of the MDM Academy. I’m just finishing up the last little bit of it, and before I started, life was good. I had a good marriage and cute kids, but I wasn’t feeling happy, and I didn’t know why.” Again—that Betty Friedan “problem that has no name,” right? So what’s the prescription? If that’s the problem, what’s the prescription? We have to get the prescription right, and then we have to follow it if we want the results. Valerie goes on: “I had every reason to be happy, but I felt like there was something I needed to change, and I didn’t know what. I didn’t know where to start or what was wrong.” That’s exactly how women were feeling in the sixties. But now, going through Level One and learning things like the drama triangle and being in the box—and she lists several of the principles she learned—all of those things we teach in Level One have totally changed how I view myself. It’s changed everything, and it’s been a huge help for me. So we don’t say in the MDM Academy that you need to go get a job in order to feel fulfilled, in order to be proud of your motherhood, or in order to thrive as a woman and a mother—to be a mission-driven mom, which we’ll talk more about next week and being on that mission-driven journey. That’s just not what you need to do. And I know this is a shameless plug for the Academy, but it is—because we know it works. And even if you don’t join the Academy, I hope you’ll learn all about what being a mission-driven mom means. I hope you’ll go to the website, get the free audiobook, and come to our celebration to become a Mother of Creation. Personal Context: When Education Failed Me Now, before we talk about the second reason modern motherhood leaves us feeling empty, I want to give you some context about where I was. As I’ve shared on this podcast and in many other places, when I was a young mother of three small children, I was struggling in every conceivable way. My husband had a pornography addiction. We had one income, and it was sporadic. Both of our parents were divorcing or separated. There were extended family issues. I was trying to figure out how to be a mom to young children. Our finances were troubling. There were so many things in my life that felt incredibly overwhelming, and I didn’t know how to manage them. I remember sitting with myself one day, thinking, I just feel awful. I feel unmotivated. I don’t know how to do this right. I was angry. I was frustrated. I was overwhelmed. And something snapped. I realized in that moment: wait a minute—I went to fifteen years of formal education, and it did not prepare me for this moment. What in the world were we doing? Why was I in school all those years if it didn’t teach me how to be a wife, a mother, or a fulfilled individual? If it didn’t show me how to manage extended family relationships, finances, or career? What in the world? I felt so cheated. And then one thing led to another, and I started searching for answers. Discovering Liberal Education I searched for a year, and then I found liberal education. This is the story I always tell—my sister-in-law told me about this small college, and I went to their website. It listed all the readings. It said they were reading Plato. I thought, what in the world? I can’t believe I read Plato. That sounded so different from anything I had ever tried—and maybe something that might work. I didn’t know what else to try, so I went on that journey. I learned that liberal education used to be the go-to. It was always done—reading original writings, looking for true principles, focusing on the good, the true, and the beautiful, and virtue as the fundamental end of education. These educational truths were so rich and fulfilling. I found them as a mother of three, then four, then five, then six, and over time I earned a liberal arts bachelor’s degree and a liberal arts master’s degree. I’m incredibly grateful for that. But this education has been robbed. I could give you a whole history of American education and explain how Charles Eliot at Harvard, in 1899, introduced the elective system. Once he did that, all the other Ivy League schools followed suit, and eventually we lost the foundation of liberal arts. Even in the forties, people noticed it—C.S. Lewis noticed it. Mortimer Adler noticed it. Robert Hutchins noticed it. That’s why they created the Great Books of the Western World. The point is: you and I were robbed of this education. Not just formal education. Not just what we would have received in American schools. And I know not as many women went to university, but it didn’t matter, because education at younger ages used to be rich, intentional, and principle-centered. We were one of the first countries to institutionalize free education for children. But the context, the conversations, the Socratic method—we didn’t get it. And on top of that, we didn’t get proper training. The Loss of Preparation and Discernment There are many reasons for this. If you’ve ever read the book Laddie by Gene Stratton-Porter—who also wrote the Limberlost books—it’s her autobiography. She describes how, in the mid-1800s, girls in her family couldn’t even be courted by a man—let alone married—until their mother left home for a month and they ran the entire farm themselves. They had to prove they knew what they were doing. So here you have rich formal education—not about earning money, but becoming your best self—and practical training to succeed as a wife and mother at a much higher level. We have to try to get that back. The net result of losing this is that we weren’t raised with the skills to discern truth. And so motherhood feels inevitably overwhelming. We’re responsible for these little ones, but we don’t know how to recognize truth. We don’t know how to discern in this culture. We don’t know how to level ourselves up or put our families on a foundation of principles. So of course, the solution is education. I know that sounds crazy, but it’s true. You can train your mind. You can learn to live according to principles. Choosing Better Inputs Someone reached out to me just today and asked, “Where can I learn to live according to principles?” And I had to be honest—I don’t know where else you can get this. For twenty years, I’ve been learning, studying, practicing, teaching, and mentoring. Other women have joined me, and together we’ve built something truly special. But if you’re not ready yet, go grab a classic. Start asking better questions. Have conversations with the authors. Get my book, The Mission-Driven Life, the free audiobook, and start living those seven laws of life mission. Start reading better things. Surround yourself with what is true, good, and beautiful—right now, today. You can choose that every minute of your day. Read good children’s classics. The Narnia series. The Little House series. The Little Britches series. Mine them for truth. Read Little Women. Pay attention to the mothers. These are things you can do right now to uplevel your game. A Shift in Thinking Carolyn Marriott, one of our students, said this: “I’ve learned that I just need to think better and differently. Instead of trying to do more, I need to think differently and seek to understand and find truth.” That’s why it’s so important—if you don’t want modern motherhood to leave you feeling empty—you must change how you think. There’s a lot of good material out there about affirmations and positive thinking, and we cover that too. But this is deeper than that. Thinking critically. Analyzing well. Understanding the nature of truth. Knowing how to mine for it. That’s vital. Max Lucado’s Story: Discovering God-Given Gifts Max Lucado shares this story: “I recently met a 20-year-old who needed to hear this, just discharged from the military. He was pondering his future. He bore a square jaw, a forearm tattoo, and a common question. He didn’t know what to do with the rest of his life. As we shared a flight, he told me about his uncle, a New England priest. ‘What a great man,’ the ex-soldier sighed. ‘He helps kids and feeds the hungry. I’d love to make a difference like that.’ So I asked him the question of this chapter: What were some occasions when you did something you loved to do and did it well? He dismissed me at first. ‘Ah, what I love to do is stupid.’ ‘Try me,’ I invited. ‘I love to rebuild stuff.’ ‘What do you mean?’ He spoke of an old coffee table he found in the garage, seeing its potential. He shaved off the paint, fixed the broken legs, and restored it with great pride. He presented it to his mom. ‘Tell me another time,’ I prompted. ‘This one is really dumb,’ he discounted. ‘But when I worked at a butcher shop, I used to find meat on the bones others threw out. My boss loved me. I could find several pounds of product just by giving the bone a second try.’ As the plane was nosing down, I tested a possibility with him. ‘You love to salvage stuff. You salvage furniture. You salvage meat. God gave you the ability to find treasure in someone else’s trash.’ My idea surprised him. ‘God did that?’ ‘Yes. God. Your ability to restore a table is every bit as holy as your uncle’s ability to restore a life.’ You would’ve thought he’d just been handed a newborn baby. As my words sank in, the tough soldier teared up.” Heed Your Desires, Don’t Suppress Them And my message to you today on this third point is Max Lucado’s message right here: “See your desires as gifts to heed rather than longings to suppress, and you’ll feel the same joy.” I have a quote up on my vision wall that says something like, the dreams you nurture in your heart are the most noble part of you. So pay attention to what you do well, what you like to do, and why you love to do it. Student Reflection: Discovering Strengths Here’s another one of our students: “I didn’t think I had a lot of gifts, but through MDM Academy, I’ve really discovered my gifts and talents and come to appreciate them on another level. I feel like I use them with more respect and reverence for myself and the gifts I’ve been given. I discovered myself in a new way and how to focus on my strengths. I now see the power of being focused on the things I’m good at.” And that’s what you can do. Start with this book, and then go on a journey of trying things you’ve never tried before. I say this on the podcast often—I give this as a solution often—because I know these are the things that work. Bringing Your Kids Along the Journey These are the things that turn you back on. They make you feel alive again. And you can do them right there with your kids. Years ago, my husband had always wanted to take karate. So you know what he did? He took karate with my two younger kids. They now have all these incredible memories together—doing karate, serving in that space, helping with events, and being a force for good in the community. They did something they loved, together. And you can do that too. I promise. You absolutely can. Final Encouragement and Invitation So remember—let’s push back on the narrative of who mothers are and what we mean. We’re going to talk about that in more detail next week. Get the education you deserve by picking up a classic and surrounding yourself with enriching things. And then get to know yourself and develop your talents. I would love to hear in the comments below which of these three you plan to work on and dive into. Next week, we’re going to talk more in depth about going beyond being “just a mom” and becoming a mission-driven mom—what that looks like, the six traits of a mission-driven mom, and why they matter so much. Thank you so much for joining me here today. And again, remember—I want to see you and your friends, your sisters, your mom, your grandma, and your nieces at our January 29th workshop and in that private, exclusive community for celebration attendees. I will see you there.

Are you questioning whether you want a family, marriage, or children? As more women choose to be single and childfree, conversations about feminism, happiness, and personal fulfillment are everywhere. By 2030, nearly half of women ages 25–44 are projected to be single and without children, and many are celebrating this as freedom, empowerment, and choice.  In this episode, I offer a thoughtful pushback. Not to shame, not to judge, but to invite deeper thinking. Drawing on decades of experience working with women and families, long-term research on happiness and wellbeing, and my own deeply personal story, I walk through four essential truths every woman deserves to consider before deciding she’s “out” on marriage and family. We talk about why relationships matter more than we’ve been told, why feminism hasn’t delivered the happiness it promised, how meaning is inseparable from responsibility, and why wanting something isn’t the same as needing it. This conversation may challenge you, but if you’re willing to stay with it, it might also change how you see your future, your relationships, and your own potential.  ______________________________LINKS MENTIONED IN THE EPISODE   What is a good life?https://youtu.be/8KkKuTCFvzI?si=S6Q101owT9uVaw9D  Books ReferencedThe End of Woman by Carrie Gress https://a.co/d/3Sdsh0a  Mere Christianity by CS Lewis https://a.co/d/gMuVf98  The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen Covey https://a.co/d/gP6X4bU  Reforming Education by Mortimer Adler https://a.co/d/2OvbaY0  What Our Mothers Didn't Tell Us by Danielle Crittenden https://a.co/d/bFGTxkk  _________________________ Transcript (AI Generated) Welcome back to the podcast. I’m Audrey Rindlisbacher, author of The Mission-Driven Life, founder of The Mission Driven Mom, and I’m so glad you’re joining me today. This episode is a pushback to a recent phenomenon circulating on social media. It centers around a statistic that claims that by 2030, an estimated 45% of women ages 25 to 44 will be single and child-free. There are many young women saying they are choosing to go without family—that it’s not what they want, that they want something else, and that they know what they want. They believe that what they want will make them happy. I’m going to give you four really important things to consider if you are in this camp. I’m pushing back on the assumption that this is all fine and well—that you should “do you,” that this is your truth, and that it’s automatically the right thing for you. This podcast will probably make some people mad. Some of you will say, “Audrey, you’ve been married over 30 years. You haven’t been in the dating market. You stayed home and raised kids. You don’t get a voice here.” My argument is that this is exactly why I do get a voice. I’ve worked with thousands of women—especially mothers. I know women. I know what many women want, and I know many of the problems this life choice creates. If you think you don’t want a family, you need to think again. Point One: Relationships Are Everything I’m going to keep this tight. I’ll link resources in the description if you want to go deeper. One of the most important talks you could ever watch is Robert Waldinger’s TED Talk, What Makes a Good Life. It explains—objectively—what creates long-term happiness. At Mission Driven Mom, we believe in truths that are always true. One of them is this: relationships are everything. Waldinger presents the longest scientific study in history—a Harvard study spanning over 85 years and multiple generations. Researchers tracked hundreds of men, their wives, and now their children, collecting extensive physical, emotional, relational, and neurological data. After decades of analysis, the conclusion was clear: good relationships keep us happier and healthier, period. They determine physical health, mental health, longevity, memory retention, and overall life satisfaction. People without quality life partners experienced earlier cognitive decline, poorer health, and shorter lives. Warm, supportive relationships are protective. Conflict is normal, but trust is essential. If you want the best health, fulfillment, and happiness, you need a partner you can rely on. Every great thinker across history agrees on this: growth requires risk. And the greatest risk is giving your heart. Many women respond by saying, “There are no good men,” or “We can replace family with friendships.” I’ll address that shortly. C.S. Lewis once said that children playing happily in a mud puddle will reject an invitation to the sea because they don’t know what the sea is like. That’s what happens when we reject marriage and family without fully understanding what we’re walking away from. I don’t doubt your pain. I don’t doubt your bad experiences. I know there’s luck involved, loss involved, abandonment involved. I’ve experienced abandonment myself. I’m not saying you control everything. I am saying you deserve better information before making one of the biggest decisions of your life. Point Two: The Feminist Movement Did Not Make Us Happier By many objective measures, women’s lives have improved. But multiple studies—including Yale Law and the National Library of Medicine—show that women’s subjective happiness has declined, both absolutely and relative to men. Women today report being less happy than women in the 1950s. I’m not saying feminism caused all problems or brought no benefits. I am saying it deserves honest scrutiny. Second-wave feminism taught women that vulnerability—especially motherhood—was the problem. The solution? Become more like men. Eliminate dependency. Erase patriarchy. But vulnerability is not a flaw; it’s part of being human. Authors like Carrie Gress and Danielle Crittenden document how feminism misdiagnosed women’s suffering and prescribed a fix that ignored womanhood itself. Instead of healing women, it slowly erased them. Even popular culture revealed the cracks. In the 1980s, Cosmopolitan published maps showing where women could move to find husbands due to a “man shortage.” Sixty years later, women are still unhappy—and still being told to lean in harder. I’m not advocating a return to the past. I’m a business owner. I value progress. But rejecting family entirely is not progress—it’s confusion rooted in incomplete information. Point Three: Meaning Comes from Responsibility Jordan Peterson and others articulate what we intuitively know: careers—even dream careers—cannot meet all human needs. Meaning comes from responsibility. Independence feels good, but interdependence is the higher principle. You want responsibility on steroids? Raise a child. You can’t quit. You can’t walk away. You can’t outsource it. Rights and duties are two sides of the same coin. The deepest joy comes with the greatest responsibility. We grow when we’re challenged. Family forces empathy, forgiveness, patience, humility, and selflessness—virtues that make us fully human. Point Four: We Don’t Always Know What We Need Alfred Adler taught that needs are absolute, wants are relative. We often want things that harm us and avoid things that would help us thrive. Our culture glorifies “do what you want,” yet the most fulfilled people consistently do what they need. Maybe we need family. Maybe we need deep partnership. The Harvard study strongly suggests we do. Loneliness is now a declared epidemic. Humans are social beings. Relationships are not optional. A Personal Word I’ve been married nearly 32 years. My marriage has been incredibly hard. We’ve faced addiction, betrayal, financial devastation, parenting challenges, and loss. We made it not because it was easy—but because we both wanted it and committed to learning how to love better. I’ve watched my sons do everything possible to save their marriages—therapy, books, humility—only to be left. There are good men. Many women can’t see them because culture has taught them to fear vulnerability and expect fantasy. Final Encouragement Don’t decide yet. Comfort today does not equal fulfillment tomorrow. Every woman—single or married—should work on herself and learn how to build healthy relationships. Love is action. Boundaries teach. Forgiveness frees. Humility begins all progress. You don’t get to rewrite human nature. You don’t get to ignore truths that have worked for millennia. If you’re scared, I get it. If you’ve been hurt, I get it. But you don’t know who you could become if you commit to growth. Relationships are everything. Thank you for listening. I know some of you will be upset. Others may feel seen. I’d love to hear your thoughts. If you want to learn more about Mission Driven Mom, visit themissiondrivenmom.com and download the first three chapters of The Mission-Driven Life. I’ll see you next time.  

In this episode, Audrey unpacks the difference between healthy shame (guilt tied to real wrongdoing) and unhealthy shame (false beliefs about our worth) and explains how confusing the two leads to emotional pain—especially during the holidays. Using real-life examples, she shows how unhealthy shame damages relationships, triggers emotional overreactions, and keeps us stuck. Audrey teaches listeners to recognize the source of their feelings, take responsibility only for true guilt, release false shame, draw their worth from God, and use empowering questions to reframe difficult interactions. Through daily self-care, preemptive reflection, and intentional communication, we can transform holiday stress into opportunities for healing, confidence, and deeper, more loving relationships. How to Conquer Worries: https://www.themissiondrivenmom.com/how-to-conquer-worries The Miracle Morning app: https://miraclemorning.app/ Get Your FREE Chapters in Audio format from The Mission Driven Life: Discover and Fulfill Your Unique Contribution to the World: https://www.themissiondrivenmom.com/ _________________________ Transcript (AI Generated) Welcome back to the podcast. I'm Audrey Rindlisbacher. I'm the author of The Mission Driven Life and the founder of The Mission Driven Mom—and happy holidays. I'm so excited for you to join me. Listen to this fascinating quote. It says, “Peter Sheehan: that deep fear we all have of being wrong, of being belittled, and of feeling less than is what stops us from taking the very risks required to move us forward.” That's what we're going to talk about for a few minutes today: what is going on with us when we're worried and dreading, maybe even a little bit, the holidays? Because we’re worried about these relationships where we might feel bad interacting with certain people. Last week we spent a little bit of time talking about what to do if we’re worried about the holidays, if we're dreading interacting with these people. I gave you three tools. We talked about why you might be dreading it and three tools that you can use to better manage it. One really important one was taking time for yourself every morning. I gave you the recommendation of the Miracle Morning app so you could visualize and pray and do all of those things each morning to buoy yourself up. And we talked about what to do in specific situations with certain types of worry, and then I gave you another tool: asking empowering questions. I also gave you an opt-in of a mini-training that you still need to go get because it's going to help you with this week's tools as well. So by the end of this podcast, you are going to understand the two types of shame, and you are going to have a little toolset for knowing what to do when you get into that really uncomfortable situation that you don't want to be in with someone, and you're just not sure how to manage yourself because you're not feeling the way you want to feel. So first, let's talk about these two types of shame. I'm going to give you the framework of a very simple scenario—you may have experienced it; I've experienced it—of what might happen to you as a mother in terms of a simple, everyday experience with shame. Then we're going to break it down. This is what one woman explained: “One time I stopped to get gas and my credit card was declined. The guy gave me a really hard time. As I pulled out of the station, my three-year-old son started crying, and I just started screaming, ‘Shut up.’ I was so ashamed about my card. I went nuts. Then I was ashamed that I yelled at my son.” Now, in a normal situation, or kind of an average explanation you might find online, somebody might say, “Well, you shouldn't feel ashamed like she did. You should never be ashamed. You need to affirm yourself. You need to tell yourself that you are incredible,” and all of that. Well, it is the case that there are different kinds of shame, and not understanding that is going to make you either really struggle to overcome the shame or handle it in all the wrong ways. And so just understanding that there are two types, that they are both at play in this scenario, and that they happen to us all the time, is going to empower you to know what to do better. Healthy shame is a voice from your true self. We could also say it’s a voice from God. If you want to go back and listen to the “Two Consciences” podcast I did a few months ago, that's a really nice companion to this one because that’s what I talked about there—how you have a divine conscience, and it's different from the social conscience. And there’s some dovetailing and layering between shame and the conscience, which is really, really important to keep in mind. So healthy shame is coming from that divine place—the true sense of what is really right and wrong, the morality. It's something deep inside you that says, “You're better than this. I should not have done that. That was not the right thing to do.” Here are some examples of ways we experience shame—but healthy shame: We overspend without talking to our spouse and break the budget we agreed upon. We consistently harbor bad feelings toward someone and think badly about them, maybe even say bad things about them. Maybe it's worse than that—maybe you have an addiction. Maybe you struggle with lying or fudging the truth. Maybe you have betrayed others in the past. These are instances where you legitimately did something wrong, and you feel ashamed about it because you really did something wrong. You've betrayed your conscience. You've broken principles and natural laws. You've done something you know to be wrong. The point here is that you did something wrong. It is behavior-focused. Healthy shame is only about actions—things we actually did. This is super important to remember. Unhealthy shame is a voice from the false self. This is the tempter. This is how we don’t tell ourselves the truth. This is a lie we are believing. Louis Smeeds said this about unhealthy shame: “The pain from this shame is not a signal of something wrong in us that needs to be made right. Our shame is what is wrong with us. It is a false shame, or an unhealthy shame, because the feeling has no basis in reality.” I'm going to say that again: the feeling has no basis in reality. It is unhealthy shame we do not deserve because we are not as bad as our feelings tell us we are. It’s so important to remember: your feelings can lie to you, just like your thoughts can lie to you. Just like we all lie to ourselves sometimes—and other people, unintentionally or sometimes even with good intentions, lie to us. It is our goal, our mandate as mission-driven moms, to be truth seekers who want the truth wherever it is, whatever it is, and whatever source it’s coming from. Unhealthy shame tells us that we are bad. It is person-focused. You didn't do anything legitimately against morality. You didn't even necessarily disobey your conscience. You've honestly tried your best and something bad happened—or something you don’t like—and you feel like, “I am wrong. There's something broken about me.” Some examples of unhealthy shame might be: You overpromise without thinking or making a plan, and then you can't follow through because you simply have too many commitments. You constantly obsess about the things you “should” be doing and feel guilty for not doing them. You look at others’ accomplishments and believe that you should be like them. You were abused or neglected as a child, and now you struggle with trust or vulnerability. Yet in both healthy and unhealthy shame, whatever the source, you feel yucky. You feel guilty. You feel awful. It feels like something is wrong. And I think this is why it's so easy to conflate the two and just think, “Well, if I ever feel ashamed, then that's never me.” And this is something the world gets wrong. It tells you that anytime you feel ashamed at all, you should deflect it, tell other people they're wrong, play the victim, or ignore the changes your conscience is lovingly trying to help you make. But when we recognize there are two different kinds of shame, then we can put them both into proper perspective. When it’s unhealthy shame, then you are the shame. And because you can't stop being you, you feel wrong at the core. You feel helpless. You feel despair because you can't stop being you, and you don't know a way out. You feel trapped and broken. That's why unhealthy shame is always bad. It's always the wrong perspective, and we need to reframe what we’re thinking and what we’re telling ourselves when we get caught in unhealthy shame. This is where we have to be better discerners. This is where principles can really come to our aid. When we understand natural law properly and understand how to delineate a principle, it's so much easier to parse out the lies and the truths we’re telling ourselves—to identify the unhealthy and the healthy shame. But I'm going to give you some tools you can use right now—some really valuable questions—and then we're going to use that same tool from last week: empowering questions. What's really important to recognize—and I’ve already mentioned it—is knowing the difference between unhealthy and healthy shame. Healthy shame is more appropriately called guilt: “I did something bad, and I feel guilty.” Shame, in the unhealthy sense, is: “I am bad.” There are some people who are just intensely shame-based. It becomes their identity or worldview. And often those people do have enough trauma in their past that they just have to do more work. They can definitely see who they really are, but it’s more work. Let's be clear: we all experience unhealthy shame. We all experience both types. We all conflate them. We all feel confused by them, and we all want to run away because whatever situation we’re in feels super embarrassing. So let's go back to the beginning scenario. This mom is trying to get gas. Her credit card isn't working. The guy is “shaming” her—telling her something is wrong with her because her card won’t work. There's something wrong with him that he’s shaming her. We can't let other people's perspectives get us hung up. Remember, she said, “I was so ashamed about my card. I went nuts.” This is important to recognize because if we have a relationship with someone that's already uncomfortable, or if we have scenarios in our family that are emotionally complicated—where for some reason we feel less than—then simple events trigger deep reactions. For me, especially with my husband's family, there was a time when I felt embarrassed and ashamed because we didn't have as much money as many people in his family. They had nicer things, they gave their children more, and I experienced a lot of embarrassment and shame over that. They were not doing anything wrong. They were just living their lives and having success. It had nothing to do with me. They liked me just fine. But I was creating complications in my relationships with them because of my unhealthy shame. And I was creating that unhealthy shame by comparing myself to them and telling myself I was less than—that something was wrong with me because I wasn’t giving my children the same things or having the same success. I decided we must not be as smart. Then I went all the way down the rabbit hole to my worth. That is what lies at the heart of unhealthy shame: we have our worth tied up in something that has nothing to do with our worth. We’re no longer drawing our worth from God, and we’re no longer telling ourselves the truth. We're caught up in lies. We're not asking good empowering questions. So we turn normal everyday situations—just like going to dinner with extended family—into our own torture chambers, beating ourselves up and making ourselves miserable simply because people are living their lives. Then maybe someone says something teasing or slightly judgmental, and suddenly I'm down in that awful place of “I'm broken. I can’t be fixed. Something is wrong with us. Why can’t we get the same results?” So with the woman at the gas station: why was she ashamed about her credit card? Because her worth was wrapped up in it—because she believed something was wrong with her that her card wasn't working. She could have said, “This is so frustrating that my card isn’t working, but this happens to everyone. I'm going to pull over and figure it out.” Or if she’s standing in front of the guy—even if he’s berating her—if her worth wasn’t wrapped up in her money or credit card, she might have said, “Sir, you’ve probably had a time in your life when your credit card didn’t work. I’m not sure what the problem is here, but let’s figure it out.” Even if there truly wasn’t enough money in her account—embarrassing, sure—she could say, “Lots of people have been in this situation. I’m sorry I didn’t check beforehand. Let’s come up with a solution.” Then, instead of staying in a problem-centered space, she would be in a solution-centered space—where she should be as a true creator, which is what we want to be as mission-driven moms. We deep-dive into this in the Academy because your worth should not be tied up in any of that stuff. That’s where unhealthy shame comes from. But we can see these situations clearly. We can parse them out. We can see the unhealthy shame from the healthy shame. We can recognize when it’s guilt and when it’s shame. Let me read you this quote about unhealthy shame from Brené Brown: “If you roughly divide the men and women I've interviewed into two groups—those who feel a deep sense of love and belonging and those who struggle for it—there’s only one variable that separates the groups: those who feel lovable, who love, and who experience belonging simply believe they are worthy of love and belonging.”   Because this woman's worth was tied up in her money and her credit card and how she looked to other people, she wasn't drawing her worth from the proper places. She wasn't having a healthy perspective and telling herself the truth and asking empowering questions and being solution-focused. Well, then she had this shame. Here's what I really want you to recognize and take away from this, because this, I think, is really at the heart of some of the reasons why we're dreading the holidays and some of the issues that we have around these complicated relationships with other people—just like me with my extended family and me creating all of this shame around just a normal family interaction. Instead, I could have been proud of who I was and proud of the choices I was making and recognizing that I was a really good mom and that my kids didn't need stuff in order to feel loved. I could have been affirming myself and telling myself the truth and asking myself empowering questions when I went there, like, “How can I love them better? How can I find out more about their lives? How can I see what we have in common?” All those things that I could have been doing—the tools that I didn't have then that I have now, which I'm so grateful for. It was the original unhealthy shame that helped instigate the healthy shame. She said she was also ashamed that she yelled at her son. The healthy shame was that she felt guilty because she yelled at her child, and that's a legitimate thing that she actually did wrong. Her conscience was like, “You shouldn't yell at your kid.” Why is she yelling at her child? It's because she feels awful. Now, we're always responsible for our choices, no matter how we feel. But if we already feel ashamed, we're more likely to act out in shaming ways. We're more likely to do things that cause us more shame because we do things we know to be wrong that we legitimately feel guilty about later. So I hope that really sinks in. Think about that. If you allow yourself to engage in unhealthy shame, you are more likely to cause yourself guilt and more shame. So what we have to do is we have to tackle who you have troubled relationships with. You've interacted with these people before. You know what stuff might come up. You know the comparisons that you might make. You know the unhealthy things you might be tempted to say. You know the kinds of things they might say to you or what might go down, so you can prepare beforehand. I love the quote, “An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.” This is why you're going to do your Miracle Morning every day over the holidays, because you're going to keep yourself in a good place. You're going to take care of yourself first. You're going to meet your needs. You're going to envision what you want these holidays to look like and how you're going to show up. You're going to journal and be grateful and exercise for a few minutes and just do those things that are going to center you. You're going to draw your worth from God, and you're going to remind yourself that there's unhealthy shame, and you are not going to let other people make you feel ashamed when you shouldn't, because you haven't done anything wrong. This is so, so, so important. That clerk participated in this woman's sense of shame by the way he was treating her, but she had the power to stop him. She had the power to tell him that she refused to feel ashamed for something she didn't do wrong. So this is why you're going to take care of yourself first. If you did not get that mini training, you're going to go grab it. It's in the description again this week. You're going to really practice those empowering questions, and you're going to let your brilliant mind think on those empowering questions. You're going to pray over them, you're going to ponder them, you can maybe ask other people them, and you're going to let your marvelous mind find new, creative solutions to old problems. Because you're going to be solution-focused, right? And you're going to be the person who is not going to feel guilty for something that she didn't do wrong. But you're also going to be the person who is the first one to have the courage to own up to what you did do wrong, because both of those things nurture your self-image. Both of those things help you feel in control of yourself, in control of your life, and centered and worthy. So the first thing that you're going to do when you have an interaction is prepare ahead of time. You're going to use those empowering questions. You're going to use that training to start jotting down where you might get caught up this Christmas—what might happen over the holidays that might be an issue for you. You're going to write your empowering questions, and you're going to carry them around with you. You're going to do that prevention with Miracle Morning and with empowering questions to prepare you. Now we're going to talk for just a minute about what you're going to do in those situations that might arise in the moment. You have an interaction—or you don't even have an interaction. Maybe this is all going on in your head. My husband and I can have so many conversations and give so many examples to you of ways that we've done this together and individually, with many, many people in our lives, of “horriblizing” them and putting ourselves on a moral pedestal or demeaning ourselves and just not seeing ourselves and others honestly. That's what we have to learn how to do. So let's say that you just notice that you're feeling these bad feelings that you don't want to feel, and you're especially feeling them even just toward yourself. You find yourself demeaning yourself or feeling like you don't like yourself, or telling yourself things that you don't want to hear—things that you wouldn't tell somebody else that you really love. Or you have this bad interaction, and you're in this negative place. The first thing that you're going to do is check in on your healthy shame. You're just going to ask about good old-fashioned guilt: “Is there something in this relationship that I am legitimately responsible for fixing? Have I potentially done something to hurt this person in the past?” This is preemptive work you can do as well. You can anticipate the experiences that you're going to have with these people at the holidays. You can anticipate what's going to happen by actually trying to repair relationships before the event happens. That's also some of the ounce of prevention that you can do. The point I want to make here is that what we tend to do at the holidays is make it all about the external stuff. It's all about the parties and the decorations and the gifts and the cookies and the caroling. And the traditions matter—do not get me wrong. You're creating beautiful memories that your children will cherish. But actually, the only reason you're doing all of that external stuff is to enrich the relationships, to build happy memories for yourself and your family, and to build bonds. So I don't want you to tell yourself this holiday season that you don't have time to sit with yourself and negotiate relationships—that you're too busy and you'll “handle it after the holidays.” That is a lie. If you do a little bit of preemptive work—if you will write down some empowering questions, if you'll just sit with yourself tonight when you go to bed and spend an extra half an hour before you fall asleep and do a little bit of preemptive work—the holidays will be a million times better. Even if Uncle Joe shows up and says the thing he always says, even if everybody else is exactly the same, because you are different, it will be different for you. And when you show up different for people because you're different—because you've worked on you—then it always forces other people to respond differently. Maybe their initial reaction won't be exactly what you want or expect, but it will heal. You have the power to initiate the healing. Sometimes you just are responsible for stuff. I was responsible for feeling jealous. That was something that I was doing that was 100% on me, and I owed myself and God—and probably them—an apology for building up a wall between us with my own negative feelings, with my own jealousy. So I want to encourage you to evaluate beforehand and even in the moment. Leave the room for five minutes. Go sit in another room and just ask yourself—maybe even pray and talk to God about it. Maybe even bring in somebody that you trust—and really try to be honest: “Is there something in this relationship that I can take responsibility for that would actually help it move forward? Have I hurt this person in the past? Have I created walls? Have I been judgmental or comparing or negative or crabby or whatever, and do I genuinely need to fix this?” Then write them a card or call them on the phone or give them a short visit. You can write it down beforehand so that you remember what you wanted to say, and it can be really simple. If it's not that big of a deal, I don't want you to blow it up into something that it doesn't need to be. But you can definitely initiate healing. You can go to someone and say, “Look, our relationship has not been the best, and I'm the first one to admit that I have this part in that. I have not reached out to you as much as I could have. I have not been there for you in times when you needed help. I have been jealous of you, and I have—I'm sorry to say—talked badly about you sometimes when you weren't around. That's all on me, and I am very sorry. I want this holiday season to be better. We're going to spend time together, and I want it to be as beautiful as it can be. If you can find it in your heart to begin to forgive me, then let's start over. Let's see if this can be better.” I'm not here trying to give you one more thing to do. I don't want you to listen to this and do that unhealthy shame thing again: “Oh, Audrey's giving me one more thing to do and I don't have time to do it. She's telling me to take time at the holidays and there's too much stuff going on.” I am giving you a gift, and the gift is the understanding of what's causing you pain and tools to begin to create healing and to make this holiday season better. So if you can hear that, if you can accept that gift, if you can take it into your heart and recognize that in the relationships in your life that are not the way you want them to be, there might be something that you could genuinely apologize for—even if it's just a genuine misunderstanding—then you manage your unhealthy shame. You use those empowering questions. You stop and do your gratitude. You take yourself out of the room and get yourself right again. You do not let other people shame you. You do not internalize that. If someone says something to you like, “You shouldn't be this way,” or “You shouldn't be that way,” or “That was the wrong thing,” or they don't like your decorations, or that wasn't what they wanted for Christmas, or you are just wrong in some way that they don't like, then you're going to take a few minutes and ask some questions like, “Is this just me, or does this happen to other people?” Like with the credit card—does everybody sometimes not have money on their credit card? Probably a lot of us. Is that a normal human thing to happen? Yes. “I don't need to feel shame about that because that's a normal thing that happens to people.” Then you can also ask yourself some other really good questions, like, “Why am I feeling ashamed for something I didn't do wrong? What is the truth about this situation, about this relationship, about me that I can focus on that's good? How can I see myself and this person more honestly?” You can write those questions down. You can carry them around in your back pocket, and you can make this holiday season better. Even if it's just 1% better, that's better. And then it can be 1% better next year. If you'll go get that mini training on how to stop worrying and start thriving and use those empowering questions and do the work ahead of time and do the work in the middle of these interactions—most of the time your presence isn't “do or die.” Most of the time at these Christmas gatherings you can step away for a minute. You can say, “Let's take a break. Let's pause gifts for a minute and come back after we've had a break,” or “You guys eat a piece of candy; I’ve got to go to the bathroom”—whatever you need to say to take a break and to renegotiate yourself, to reframe the situation for yourself, and tell yourself the truth. So what are we going to do this holiday season? It's the week before Christmas. You've got a couple of weeks of interacting with people and attending parties. It's coming to a close, and now you're going to be with these people—maybe on Christmas Day or Christmas Eve or New Year's Eve, or whatever the case might be—or even just with yourself, and you want to be different. You want to show up differently. So you're going to do the maintenance stuff and remember that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.   And you're going to take care of yourself every day and ask empowering questions about how you can show up differently. When you start feeling ashamed, embarrassed, or negative, you're going to pull away and ask yourself, “Is this healthy or unhealthy shame?” Then you're going to take responsibility for what you've done. If you yelled at somebody, if you were critical of them—whatever it might be—you’re just going to go apologize. Then you're going to use empowering questions to reframe the unhealthy shame and remind yourself that your worth is infinite, that you matter, that people love you, that you are lovable and loved, and that you just need to see everybody a little bit more honestly. What you're practicing doing—these are just good principles that you're going to practice. Taking care of yourself every single day is a really important principle. Looking for whether it’s unhealthy or healthy shame is a really important principle. Taking responsibility for what you've done, with healthy shame, is a really important principle. And getting rid of the unhealthy shame is a really important principle as well. A couple final thoughts. Remember that quote I gave you at the beginning? “That deep fear we all have of being wrong, of being belittled, of feeling less than is what stops us taking the very risks required to move us forward.” Admitting that we were jealous, saying we're sorry to people—those are the risks we have to take to move forward. Taking full responsibility for the guilt for what is ours, then reframing all the unhealthy shame—that’s what we've got to do. And this is just such a beautiful thought to remember. This is Louis Smeeds: “There is a nice irony in shame. Our feelings of inferiority are a sure sign of our superiority, and our feelings of worthlessness testify to our great worth.” In other words, we could not feel less than if we were not truly superior and noble creatures. We could not feel unworthy if we did not have great worth. We are daughters of God who can end the unhealthy shame, take action where there's genuine guilt, and rise permanently above any unhealthy shame and begin to work toward our real potential. And in the case of this holiday season, begin to have more of the loving, beautiful, connected, meaningful relationships that we long to have. Go get that mini training. Use it all through the holidays. Come back and tell me how it went—what insights you had, how you reframed your unhealthy shame, how you took responsibility, and what was better this holiday season because of these really valuable principles. And remember, next year we have some great things cooking for you. We will be back at the first of the year, and look for some really great stuff coming into your inbox over this Christmas holiday about the Mothers of Creation Celebration. It’s coming back. We haven't had this celebration for a few years. It’s back. Please join us this fall and look for those emails coming into your inbox about that. Make sure to subscribe and leave a review. It helps others find us and know that quality content and true principles are taught here and that they can be blessed by those. Have a very, very, very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. I will see you in 2026.  

This episode explores why so many moms feel overwhelmed and stressed during the holidays, despite wanting to create meaningful memories for their families. Audrey identifies three main causes of holiday dread—unrealistic expectations, feeling responsible for everything and everyone, and constant worrying about future problems. She explains how simple mindset shifts and daily practices can dramatically reduce stress.  Audrey invites listeners to reflect on their own childhood Christmas memories, reminding moms that what children remember most are the feelings, the connection, and the simple traditions—not perfection. She introduces the “Miracle Morning” routine as a transformative tool for grounding, gratitude, and emotional resilience. Finally, she teaches the power of turning worries into “empowering questions,” helping moms shift from fear and overwhelm to clarity, capability, and peace.  The episode encourages moms to simplify holiday expectations, care for themselves daily, and approach challenges with empowered thinking so they can create truly joyful, meaningful experiences for their families.  How to Conquer Worries: https://www.themissiondrivenmom.com/how-to-conquer-worries The Miracle Morning app: https://miraclemorning.app/ Get Your FREE Chapters in Audio format from The Mission Driven Life: Discover and Fulfill Your Unique Contribution to the World: https://www.themissiondrivenmom.com/ _________________________ Transcript (AI Generated)  Welcome back to the podcast. I'm Audrey Rindlisbacher, author of The Mission-Driven Life and Founder of The Mission-Driven Mom. I'm so excited for you to join me today as we talk about dreading the holidays—so to all you moms who are really not looking forward to it and are struggling with that. I read this statistic the other day: 80% of millennial moms are overwhelmed by the mental load of the Christmas holidays, and 65% are feeling pressured for perfect celebrations. And when I saw those statistics, I just knew that we needed to talk about this for a few minutes today. So if the holidays are a stressful time of year for you, take heart. What you may not realize is that you’re actually stressed for specific reasons, and that there are ways you can manage that stress much better. So by the time we get to the end of this podcast, you will have a clearer understanding of exactly why you are stressed, why you’re dreading the holidays, and some simple tools for managing that much better and making the holidays a much more joyful experience for you and your family. Now, first of all, why do you dread the holidays? I don’t know if you’ve ever had this experience, but I have a recurring nightmare, and the nightmare goes something like this: it's Christmas Eve, and I’ve just realized that it’s Christmas Eve and I have no gifts for anybody. I don’t know what to do about this. I don’t have any money. I don’t have any gifts, and I don’t know what to do. And so I frantically run to the thrift store—that’s always my go-to in my dreams. And I get a cart and start loading things into the cart to try to get people on my list some Christmas presents, especially for my kids. Now, I don’t know exactly why this is a recurring nightmare for me, but when I get really stressed, this is something that I often dream. And it’s funny, but it also expresses that I feel like so many of you do, and the holidays can be unbelievably stressful, and we dread them for many different reasons. So let's talk about some statistics. We mentioned that 80% of millennial moms are feeling overwhelmed by the mental load. Sixty-five percent reported feeling pressured. And twice as many moms as dads feel the load. They feel stressed about the shopping, the family gatherings, the finances, keeping everybody healthy, and this kind of really weird ethereal expectation to create a magical Christmas—to build perfect memories. In fact, a study from the American Heart Association found that 79% of people overlook their health, and more than a quarter of moms say that it takes a month or more to recover from their holiday stress. Okay, this is bleak. This is no bueno. We do not want this. So there are basically three reasons why you would feel stressed about the holidays—why you would be dreading them. And we’re going to go through each one of these, and as I’m talking about them, I want you to self-identify. You might feel stressed about all three. You might just identify with one or the other. And for each one, I’m going to give you a tool that you can use to manage that specific stressor. The first one is setting unrealistic expectations. We're going to talk about this more in a minute. You can just imagine what it is, but I'm going to take you through a little activity that's going to help you. This is a big reason that we feel unhappy going into the holidays—because we think we have to show up for everybody else, and we have to make everything magical and perfect. We have these super high expectations, and I think we know deep down inside that we're just never going to meet those expectations, but we don't really know what to do about that. The second reason that you would feel stressed at the holidays is that you feel responsible for everything, and the pressure is immense. You feel like it's all up to you. You are going to be the one that everyone’s finger is pointing at if Christmas isn't perfect. And so you feel really just dreading not making it perfect and someone complaining, and you giving your all and then it not being enough for somebody. And the third reason why you might dread the holidays is that you're just worried. You're worried about the money, the gifts, the parties, seeing people that you don't want to see, helping everybody get along. These are all big reasons to dread the holidays, even though it's supposed to be this wonderful, beautiful time. And it can be. Okay, so let's talk first about these unrealistic expectations. When I was a little girl—I can't remember exactly how old I was—but I wanted an Easy-Bake Oven so badly. I begged and begged and begged for this Easy-Bake Oven. And literally the only thing I remember about that Christmas is that I got an Easy-Bake Oven. The ingredients came in these little box sets, and the dish was just this tiny little thing, and you would mix it up with water. It was basically just sugar and flour, I'm sure. And there were a couple different flavors, I think. You mixed them up, poured them in the little pan, and put them in your little oven. And I think I baked all of them on Christmas Day, and we ate them all up, and it was great. Frankly, I think I got a replenishment of those once or twice. I don’t even know how much I used the Easy-Bake Oven, but I got my Easy-Bake Oven and it was great. Another year, I really, really wanted a little gumball dispenser. I wanted my own gumball machine. I mean, you just think if you could eat all the gumballs you ever wanted to eat. And of course, I also remember we had a tradition that I carried into my family and now we're still doing it: we would get robes and towels and other things from around the house, and we would read from the Bible and act out the Nativity story. And as soon as we got video cameras—when those started to be a thing, because we didn’t have one when I was really young—and then we did. And we would videotape it. And now, of course, today we can record it and watch it immediately and laugh at ourselves and have a good time. I remember dinners with family. I remember putting up the tree. Our tradition was to go get a real tree. I loved picking it out. We sometimes strung popcorn. We sometimes put on icicles. Just really fun times. I remember the Christmas music playing. Every year we watched Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer and The Grinch Who Stole Christmas. And being out of school and being able to sleep in—those are all my memories of Christmas. And so, when you're trying to deal with the stress and the overwhelm and the dread of unmet or unrealistic expectations, I want you to do this. I want you to take a minute—you can do this right now—and I want you to do what I just did. I want you to think about your favorite gifts that you received as a child, your favorite activities that you did with your family, and the time that you spent with loved ones. And my guess is that your experience is going to be pretty similar to mine. You're not going to remember every Christmas, and you're not going to remember most of the gifts that you received. There's just a feeling of music playing, lights going up, being out of school, being with your family, and looking forward to things—maybe a Christmas party that you always had. And you know what? It's so important to remember: it wasn't complicated. You probably don't remember very many details. You probably remember the feelings—a handful of key memories, the time together, the way that you felt, and a few gifts. And the reason this matters so much is because we as moms are really just trying to make something special for our families. Now, the parties are fun, the extended family dinners are fun, and sometimes we have to host those and it's a bit of work. But really, it's just that we want our children to have a good experience. Frankly, there were plenty of Christmases when my kids were really little that they loved the boxes the toys came in. They would make them into forts, color on them, and play hide and seek in them. Small children especially are easy to please. And maybe you have teenagers and it's more complicated—I get it. But the point here being: you're just trying to please a few people. You're trying to give them traditions and memorable experiences, and it can be simple. You want to have a happy Christmas. You want your children and your husband to have a happy Christmas, and that's really all that matters. And it's not complicated. They're not going to remember most of the gifts that they got, and they're not going to remember most of the things that you do. They're going to remember you being with them. They're going to remember a good feeling in the home. They're going to remember the smells. They're going to remember baking with you, cooking Christmas dinner with you. They're going to remember laughing. They're going to remember putting up the tree and putting the lights on it. They're going to remember little movies that you watch or other little traditions that you have. That's it. And frankly, you can pull that off in a pretty short period of time. You can get each child a few simple things—maybe one thing that they really, really want. You can put on some simple traditions the day of. You can bake some cookies one or two nights and carol at the neighbor’s home. It can be so simple. It does not have to be complicated. And every time you start to overcomplicate it and you think that the décor has to be perfect and the food has to be perfect and you have to make everybody happy and solve all the problems, I want you to remember your own childhood. Think about what you remember, try to pass that on to your children, keep it very simple, and remember that all of that is enough. Okay, now what do you do if you're feeling responsible for everything? You're dreading Christmas because you feel responsible—like you have to do it all. What you're going to remember is that you can’t, and that no one expects you to. And if they expect you to, you can kindly tell them they're wrong. You're not responsible for everything. I think if you’ll remember your own childhood experience—and you’ll take this next tip that I'm going to give you—it’s going to help you be more centered and see everything in a more balanced way. Because one of the things that we do is we have unrealistic expectations, and then we think we're responsible for all of the expectations, and then we don't take care of ourselves. And so we're going to reverse that this Christmas—this holiday season. We're going to start, we're going to lead, by having simpler, clearer expectations that are more realistic and that match the kinds of memories you have from your childhood that you want to pass on to your children. And then we're going to take care of ourselves so that when we're tempted to feel responsible for everything, to fix it and make it better for everyone, we don't stress out, we don't get overwhelmed, and we don't start crying or yelling—because we are taking care of ourselves. The American Psychological Association said that holiday stress has a particular impact on women. Moms take charge of many of the holiday celebrations, particularly the tasks related to preparing meals and decorating the home. And what we want to remember is that if we can show up every day with energy and optimism—if we can be in a good mood and happy and positive—it will make all the difference for us and our families. And I'm going to give you a really simple tool to do that. I'm going to ask you to set aside 10 minutes a day. Now, it would be better if you would do an hour, but you can do this activity in 10 minutes. If you will do it every day, what that will do is—if you’ll start your day out by doing this thing I'm going to ask you to do for 10 minutes—it’s going to set a new tone. And you are going to be taking care of yourself, which is going to recenter you, and you are going to be making connections and working on gratitude and all these things so that when you come out of your room and it’s time to start working on Christmas, you are going to be in a better place. And when you're in a better place, everything is going to go better.   You're going to remember your realistic expectations, and you're going to stop taking responsibility for everything because you are going to take care of you first. So I want you to go get this app, and it's called Miracle Morning. When you open it up, it's free. It's going to look like this. For those of you watching on YouTube, you can see that it says “Good Miracle Morning,” and you can set it to wake you up. There are six activities you're going to do every day, and you can click off that you've done them. The first one is silence. That is some kind of spiritual connection. It is prayer or quiet or meditation—connection with the divine. Now, for Christians, this is going to be a meaningful prayer, but it’s going to be some way that you just sit with yourself and breathe and be quiet. The next one is what they call affirmations. In the MDM Academy, we call these truth statements, where you're going to remember your realistic expectations, the memories you're trying to build for your children. Remind yourself that you can't do it all and you don't want to, and you're not going to, and it’s going to be enough for you to give your family a beautiful day, a beautiful experience. You can write these right in the app and just read them for yourself, or they have generic ones you can use. You’ll just say or read a couple little truth statements for yourself—they call them affirmations. And then you're going to visualize. You're going to sit with yourself and calmly think about how you want this holiday season to look. You can think about specific events. You can think about Christmas morning. You can see yourself feeling the way that you want to feel. You can imagine yourself having a hard conversation, or imagine yourself enjoying the Christmas holiday. And then you're going to exercise in some fashion. Then you're going to read something that lifts you, and then you're going to scribe—you’re going to write what you're grateful for and just journal for a few minutes. And the reason I said you can do this in 10 minutes is because technically you can actually do it in six minutes. You can do each of these for one minute. You can do silence for a minute, affirmations for a minute, visualize for a minute, exercise for a minute, read for a minute, and scribe for a minute—one minute each—and you'd be done in six minutes. Or you can take a little more time with each of these. You take five or ten minutes each, and sure enough, you've spent an hour and you're really renewed. You have imagined the kind of holiday season that you want to have. You have told yourself the truth about who you are and what you're creating for your family. You've done some stretching or walked around the block or gotten on the treadmill for 10 minutes and moved your body and gotten your energy up and your blood flowing. You've read something that inspires you. This can be scripture, but it can just be any good book that elevates your soul and teaches you truth and makes you feel good. And then you're going to write something—a few things that you're grateful for, journal about why this day is going to be great, why you're happy to be alive, why you feel grateful for this holiday season, why it's going to be a wonderful one. So that's how you're going to stop being responsible for everything and everyone all the time—because you are going to prepare yourself every morning for a wonderful day by using that Miracle Morning app. And we will have a link for that in the description for you. Just literally take 10 minutes, go into a quiet room, tell everyone to leave you alone, get up early, whatever you have to do. Do it before you go to bed for the next day—whatever works. And I promise it will make a huge difference. Now the last thing that we need to manage in dreading the holidays is feeling worried. I worry about all the things, obviously, because I have recurring nightmares about that. And there have been plenty of years when I was really worried about the finances and I thought that it had to be perfect, and I thought I had to buy my kids all the perfect gifts and all this kind of thing. And you know what? Most of the time, I could manage to get all of my kids at least one thing that they genuinely wanted. I mean, sometimes it can just be some fish in a fishbowl, and that’s like 15 dollars. It can be something really, really simple that would be meaningful for them—something they can look forward to from their Christmas list. So I want to give you one more tool that's going to help you to not worry, because when we remember that worrying is simply projecting into the future something that we don't want to have happen—it’s assuming the worst, it’s expecting the worst—and it's not helpful because it's really focused on fears. Worries are just fears of future events that haven't even happened, that we're bringing into our present moment. And so we’re letting the future poison the present—the future that hasn’t even happened poison the present. And we do not want to do that. We do not want to let the future poison the present. So what we're going to do instead is we're going to turn every worry into an empowering question. I've talked about this on the podcast before, and in the notes below in the description, I'm going to give you a link to a little mini training. It's just a little audio—just a few minutes—and then a little worksheet. It's not going to take you very much time, but it will walk you in more detail through how to use empowering questions in your everyday life and how to use them to stop the worries. So make sure you go grab that mini training, but I'll give you just a glimpse into what it is and why it's so incredibly helpful.   So I learned this concept from a book called The Top 10 Distinctions Between Millionaires and the Middle Class by Keith Cameron Smith. And this is the last distinction. It's the number one way, he says, that the wealthy think differently than other people, and it's the simple idea that they ask themselves empowering questions. But he taught me something really, really important about something Jesus taught. We know He said over and over again, “Ask and you shall receive.” But what Keith Cameron Smith helped me understand is that because our brains are brilliant problem-solving machines, every time we ask ourselves a question, our mind wants to solve the problem. So it gets to work solving the problem—finding the answers to our questions. So when we ask, we literally always receive. And when we start to worry, and we start to think about future events that we don’t want to have happen, and then that turns into negative thoughts—and we stew and let that ruminate in our minds—we become more negative, more fearful, more upset. And now suddenly we're taking things out on people before anything has ever even happened. Empowering questions are really simple. They're questions that ask you what you can do. Disempowering questions ask you what you can't do. Empowering questions make you feel good; disempowering questions make you feel bad. So, if you’re worrying about something—like maybe you're going to see Uncle Bob and he was really rude to you when you were younger, or maybe somebody betrayed you and you have to have Christmas dinner with them, or whatever the case might be—and you’re just dreading this thing that's going to happen over the holidays, and you're worrying and worrying about it, you're not changing it by worrying about it. And if it's making you feel bad and it's focusing on what you can't control, then you know it's a worry and you need to stop. So how do you stop? You stop by turning the worry into an empowering question. Okay? So if it's Uncle Bob and I'm going to see him at this family get-together, then you can start to ask yourself empowering questions about that situation. There are all sorts of them. You could say to yourself, “What could I say to him when I see him?” “How can I have a conversation that's civil?” You could ask, “How can I see the good in him and reflect that?” You can ask, “How can I forgive him and have better feelings toward him?” You can ask yourself, “How can I have the people around me, who love me, help and support me in this situation that I'm in with Uncle Bob?” And as you sit on these empowering questions—questions that are about what you can control, not what anybody else is going to do—your brilliant mind will start to come up with solutions. And you don't need to worry that the minute you ask the question you need to have an answer. Your brilliant mind will come up with an answer. And this puts you right back into a faithful, creator frame of reference. This gets you right back into a place where you are in the driver’s seat. You can make it be what it needs to be. And if the answer to the question is “I can’t go see Uncle Bob,” then you make provisions for that to be the case. But this is really what's going to make a huge difference for you. As a man thinketh, so is he. We read in the Bible that what you focus on is going to be your result, and what you practice is what you get better at. If you practice worrying, you will get better at it. If you practice turning your worries into empowering questions that your brilliant mind will solve, then you will get better at that. And because it's focused on what you can do, and because the question makes you feel good—because you feel powerful and in control and you're focused on solutions and not problems—well then, now you're practicing being a more optimistic individual who's showing up with more positivity for yourself and the people around you. And all of that is good. All of that is what we want, especially at the holidays. We want joyful, happy memories. And you know, your kids hear you and they feel your vibe. They feel your energy. They feel when you're stressed or negative or overwhelmed. And we’re doing that, moms—we’re doing that to ourselves with our worries, our unrealistic expectations, and feeling responsible for all the things. And it just doesn't have to be that way. So please remember, this is meant to be a happy time. For Christians, this is a celebration that the Savior was born. For others, it's a time to celebrate family and love. It's a time to remember each other by giving gifts. It's a time to gather, to eat yummy food, to talk, to laugh, to play games, and to make memories. And so try to focus on these three tools that I’ve given you. Let's remember to think back on our own childhood and keep the experiences for our children simple and fun and uplifting, because it doesn't have to be elaborate. They don't care about all the decorations. They don't care about all the fancy stuff. And they are the ones that really matter the most to us. They are the ones we’re trying to do this for. So bring those traditions forward. Remember to do your Miracle Morning practice every morning. Make sure you do those five—he calls them SAVERS. Make sure you take time for prayer, visualization, truth statements, gratitude, and a little bit of movement—all of those things that will lift you up and help you show up more optimistically. And then please, in the description, click on the link and grab your mini training. Listen to the little audio as many times as you need to. It will lift you up. It will inspire you. It will remind you how you can use empowering questions. And use the worksheet—carry it around with you and use it ongoing. Print it off as many times as you want to help you become someone who knows better how to manage her mom guilt, stop worrying, and be optimistic instead. Now, I'm really excited for next week's episode. We are going to carry this theme into next week, and we're going to finish out the year by diving a little deeper into managing holiday stress by talking about shame and the role that shame can play in the relationship—in the way we're interacting, in shaming, when we shame ourselves and when other people shame us. It won't be real long, but it'll definitely be something that will help us get re-centered on taking proper care of ourselves through the holidays, seeing things more clearly, and calling shame out properly—and not letting ourselves go down that rabbit hole so that we can have a better holiday season. And then we will take a couple of weeks off, and I'm so excited for the new year. I have so many guests I'm reaching out to that I'm super excited to bring onto the show. We have some new themes and some really great content that we are gearing up to share with you. It's going to be an incredible year. As you may already know, we have brought back our MDM Celebration, which is happening next fall. That's going to be Mothers of Creation. That theme—we’ve all been waiting for it. It's going to be phenomenal. And so 2026 is going to be an incredible year for The Mission-Driven Mom and the Academy with our new workshops we talked about recently, with the Celebration coming up, and all of that good stuff. But stay tuned next week as we spend some time on shame and staying out of that over the holiday season. And if this has been helpful for you, please pass it along. Please leave a review. Subscribe. Thank you so much for listening, and I will see you next time.    

Get Your FREE Chapters in Audio format from The Mission Driven Life: Discover and Fulfill Your Unique Contribution to the World: https://www.themissiondrivenmom.com/ Audrey examines Louise Perry’s The Case Against the Sexual Revolution and challenges the cultural myth that the sexual revolution and modern feminism have been unqualified goods. Drawing on Perry, Leonard Sachs, Ludwig von Mises, and Alexis de Tocqueville, she argues that treating sex as a casual leisure activity and insisting that men and women are “the same” has largely benefited a small group of predatory men while deeply harming women, children, and families. The episode highlights strong scientific evidence that men and women are biologically and psychologically different, and that equality does not mean sameness. When society tears down moral “fences” around sex—chastity, modesty, marriage, and clear gender norms—women lose protection, family life breaks down, and freedom itself erodes. Audrey contrasts today’s confusion with Tocqueville’s description of early American women: educated, virtuous, respected, protected, and vital to the nation’s strength. Ultimately, Audrey calls mothers to push back against the lies of the sexual revolution, to teach their children to be ladies and gentlemen, to honor traditional sexual morals, and to defend marriage and family as the best system for taming male impulses, safeguarding women and children, and rebuilding a healthy, free society. ____________________ Transcript (AI Generated) Welcome back to the podcast. I'm Audrey Rindlisbacher, author of The Mission-Driven Life, founder of The Mission-Driven Mom. Make sure and go to themissiondrivenmom.com and get your three free chapters of my book The Mission-Driven Life: Discover and Fulfill Your Unique Contribution to the World, because that will give you an overview of everything that we do here and how you can get started on your own mission-driven journey. Today, we're going to spend a few minutes with The Case Against the Sexual Revolution and Louise Perry. It is kind of, in our culture, an undisputed fact that the sexual revolution and the feminist movement were 100% good—that they changed the world for the better, that women are so liberated and so much better off. But lately, in the last two or three years, there have been quite a few books coming out by scholars and researchers and authors that are pushing back against that narrative. We are 60 years in—60, 70 years in—and now we have an opportunity to stand up and look around at the world that the sexual revolution and the feminist movement gave us. And I am pushing back on that as well with these authors. My plan is, in the coming year, to talk to more of these authors, to write more about this, and to make some of these tools and ideas and truths available to all of us as mothers and women, because it is imperative that we understand all of the damage that the sexual revolution and the feminist movement did. And, you know, you're just not allowed to say that in today's world. You're just not allowed to say that it wasn't all beautiful and perfect and roses from these movements. But it definitely was not. We are experiencing the damage done. So, we're going to touch on a few things today. I'll take you into this book and a few other books that I thought of today just to talk around this idea for a few minutes. This book is, as you can guess, Louise Perry's research on some of the damage that the sexual revolution has done. Now, she starts out the book by talking about Marilyn Monroe and Hugh Hefner. And what you might not know is that they’re pretty intimately connected. Marilyn Monroe was at a point of desperation. She was trying to be a model, and she went and had some nude photos done. She wasn’t paid very much money, and this photographer promised her that they wouldn’t be published—blah, blah, blah—all the lies that people say. And a few years later, when she had quite a bit more fame, Hugh Hefner decided that he was going to launch Playboy magazine, and he was going to launch it with a centerfold of Marilyn Monroe. The man who had taken the photos of Marilyn promised her that she would barely be recognizable, but she’s definitely recognizable in the photos. And because she was famous by this point, it definitely launched Playboy, and it was successful from that point on. Now, if you know very much about Marilyn Monroe, you probably know that she had a very troubled childhood. She spent some time in foster care. She didn’t really have a sense of self, and I don’t know at what point she was abused, but she was definitely abused by men. And then Louise says this: today’s female porn performers are far more likely than their peers to have been sexually abused as children, to have been in foster care, and to have been victims of domestic violence as adults. All misfortunes Monroe suffered too. “When it all goes horribly wrong, as it usually does, the public labels these once-desired women crazy and moves on. There is never a reckoning with what sexual liberation does to those who follow its directives most obediently.” And I would say, if I had to give you in a nutshell what Louise Perry is saying in this book, it's something like this: even though there are a few things we might be able to thank the sexual revolution or the feminist movement for, there’s a lot of damage that has been done. And it’s moved us away from meaningful sexual interactions. It’s moved us away from family relationships and bonds and commitments. And male predators have actually been the biggest winners. It’s actually women who have suffered at the hands of the small percentage of men who have a tendency toward violence. So, I want to read you a few things that Louise says early on in the book in regard to these ideas. She says that she used to be quite liberal in her frame of reference, and she says about the book—this is really fascinating—she says, “The sexual revolution of the 1960s stuck, and its ideology is now the ideological sea we swim in, so normalized that we can hardly see it for what it is.” And so, she’s trying to bring to the surface fundamental ideas and assumptions from the sexual revolution and ask—ask ourselves—why is that not okay? How did that play out in the real world? Why was that a bad idea? In fact, I’ll tell you really quickly before we dive into it, these are the chapter headings, which I think will compel you to maybe go out and get this book and read some of it for yourself: Chapter 1: Sex Must Be Taken Seriously Chapter 2: Men and Women Are Different Chapter 3: Some Desires Are Bad Chapter 4: Loveless Sex Is Not Empowering Chapter 5: Consent Is Not Enough Chapter 6: Violence Is Not Love Chapter 7: People Are Not Products Chapter 8: Marriage Is Good Conclusion: Listen to Your Mother And I am going to just float around some of the beginning chapters of this book and give you some other frame of reference from some other thinkers. I’m just going to give you some other quotes and ideas from other authors that I thought of while I was reading this and preparing this for you, just to give you some jumping-off places to start to think differently about the sexual revolution and where it has led us. For many of you, you’re God-fearing, conservative women. You already think it’s a bunch of nonsense or it hasn’t done good things, but it’s often so difficult to communicate why—what it is that’s actually wrong, what it is that you’re actually upset about—and that’s what books like this can do for you. Okay? So she goes into, “I used to follow this narrative and think it was a good idea. I used to be quite liberal,” and she says, to be upfront, this book is not an attempt to reckon with some of the changes from the sexual revolution. She says, “I want to avoid the accounts typically offered by liberals addicted to a narrative of progress and conservatives addicted to a narrative of decline.” She wants to try to land somewhere in the middle, but with the understanding that she has now become far more conservative in her thinking, the more research she has done. She says, “I’m writing in a more deliberate and focused way against a liberal narrative of sexual liberation, which I think is not only wrong but also harmful. “My complaint is focused more against liberals than against conservatives for a very personal reason: I used to believe the liberal narrative.” And then she goes on, “I held the same political views as most millennial urban graduates. In other words, I conformed to the beliefs of my class, including liberal feminist ideas about porn, BDSM, hookup culture, evolutionary psychology, sex trading, and so on. “I let go of these beliefs because of my own life experiences, including a period immediately after university spent working at a rape crisis center.” She says, “If the old quip tells us that a conservative is just a liberal who has been mugged by reality, then I suppose, at least in my case, that a post-liberal feminist is just a liberal feminist.” Okay? So that’s her position. That’s where she’s coming from, and I’m going to give you some fundamental ideas about what else she’s trying to do with this book. Now, one of the things that's happened in our culture—and in fact Jacques Barzun talks about this in his big, fat book on the history of the West—he talks about how there’s a handful of key ideas that we have glommed onto. We’ve made them our core values, and for 500 years since the 1500s, we’ve marched forward with those, and we get more and more eccentric, I guess, with these ideas, with these values over time. And we lean into them more and more and more, to the point of tilting in the other direction. And one of the points that she makes is that freedom is only good when it’s balanced with other values and first principles. What’s happened with this ideology of sexual liberation is that it hasn’t been balanced with other values. She says, “In this book, I’m going to ask and seek to answer some questions about freedom that liberal feminism can’t or won’t answer.” Here are some of the questions: Why do so many women desire a kind of sexual freedom that so obviously serves male interests? What if our bodies and minds aren’t as malleable as we might like to think? What do we lose when we prioritize freedom above all else? And above all, how should we act given all of this? And her argument is that we aren’t as malleable as we think we are—that we’re hardwired in some very concrete and important ways that we’re ignoring. One of the big ideas from the sexual revolution that is ruining people, ruining relationships, and ruining our culture is that sex is just a leisure activity. Just a leisure activity. That’s so important to understand, because when you pair that idea with the idea of unlimited, unbridled personal freedom, then you get what we’re experiencing today. She says this suits the likes of Hefner very nicely, since playboys like him have a lot to gain from this new sexual culture. It is in their interest to push a particularly radical idea about sex that has come out of the sexual revolution and has proved remarkably influential despite its harms—that sex is nothing more than a leisure activity. That it’s not special, that it’s not unique, that it doesn’t mean anything, that we should be able to just engage in that activity and walk away with no emotions and no attachments and no baggage. It’s a big fat lie, and it’s one of the reasons why sex has now become commoditized, and it is doing so much harm to so many people. In fact, she talks about how this led to the #MeToo movement, because men were given more and more access to women as women offered their bodies because they felt like they had to—because that was the new culture. She says the story of the sexual revolution isn’t the story of women freed from the burdens of chastity and motherhood—although it is that. It is also a story of the triumph of the playboy, a figure who is too often both forgotten and forgiven despite his central role in this still-recent history. And she talks about how Marilyn Monroe died young and was shamed and all of the things, and then Hugh Hefner lived to a ripe old age in his wealth and didn’t pay nearly as big a price. She goes on to say, “Everyone knows that sex is not the same thing as making coffee. And when an ideology of sexual disenchantment demands that we pretend otherwise, the result can be a distressing form of cognitive dissonance.” So a big reason why this kind of thing is happening is our new idea about the equality of the sexes. And one of the things that a lot of really important philosophers and thinkers have tried to point out, but which hasn’t made it into the mainstream narrative, is simply this: equality is not sameness. We can be equal without being the same—without wearing the same clothes, doing the same jobs, thinking the same things, and especially not being the same sexually. And there's a lot of evidence around that being the case. I pulled out this book Why Gender Matters. I thought I'd talk to you for just a minute about some of the things that Leonard Sax has to say. He’s an MD and a PhD. He’s absolutely brilliant, and he has written an older book and a newer book—Why Gender Matters. I’ve had both copies. They cover a little bit different things, both very good and valuable. But he has a few things to say about his story about why he got into this. It was because he was working with children, and parents kept being told to do gender-neutral parenting and to raise their children the same. And yet it wasn’t working, and they couldn’t figure out why it wasn’t working. So here are a couple of the things that he has to say about how biologically different we really are. He says, “After waiting a few years for somebody else to write a book about girls and boys based on actual scientific research, I finally decided to write one myself. But I made myself a promise: every time I make any statement about how girls and boys are different, I also state the evidence on which my statement is based. Every statement I make about sex differences will be supported by good science published in peer-reviewed journals.” And he does that. He goes through all of these biological differences—so many. And the combination of those factors and other biological factors also leads to very different priorities and very different approaches and attitudes about sexual behavior as well. He goes on: “There’s more at stake than the old question of nature versus nurture. The failure to recognize and respect sex differences in child development has done substantial harm over the past 30 years.” Such was his claim throughout this book. And this first one was written in 2005, and so it had been, you know, since the eighties. And his big focus is the damage that ignoring sex differences was doing in education—not the sexual act, but the genders, as we call them today. But the sexes, that we really are very different—that our gender does matter, that we need to be treated differently and educated differently and thought about differently. And the mindset of, in terms of the sexual revolution—on what Louise Perry is talking about—the mindset that sex is just a leisure activity that doesn’t mean anything, and that everybody’s exactly the same and there are no differences. In fact, she goes back to Rousseau and other philosophers before him that talk about the socialization argument, that that’s really ingrained. And Leonard Sax says he was indoctrinated with that at school as well. He was taught the John Money story as evidence that the genders were the same and you could flip-flop them in childhood and they would come out okay. And of course, we know how that story played out with John Money and the boys and their later suicides and all of that nonsense. So he goes on to talk about the first kind of key for him—hearing. The boys’ and girls’ hearing was very different. And he cites this study. It was a study done with newborn babies on the day they were born—102 of them. They were videotaped, and their eye motions were analyzed by researchers who didn’t know the sex of the baby. The boy babies were much more interested in the mobile than in the young woman’s face. The girl babies were more likely to look at the face. The differences were large. The boys were twice as likely to prefer the mobile. The researchers concluded that they had proven “beyond reasonable doubt” that sex differences in social interest “are in part biological in origin.” Surprise, surprise. There’s the anatomy of the eye, there’s the anatomy of the ear. There’s a lot of research around the brain and very large differences in the brain. We’re not talking about small differences between the sexes with lots of overlap. We’re talking about large differences between the sexes with no overlap at all. In this particular case, he’s talking about the eye. Every male animal had a thicker retina than any female retina due to the males having more M cells. So then he says here, talking also about the eye, the P cells send information, the M cells send their information via different pathways, etc., etc.—a region that is specialized for analysis of spatial relationships and object motion. And guess what? Every step in each pathway from the retina to the cerebral cortex is different in females and males. So it isn’t just that they have more of this or that. Every single step of the way—just in analyzing the eye—it’s different. It’s different with smell, it’s different with speaking, with language that’s used, when it’s used, how it’s developed. And even in adults we know there are large differences between communication styles and emotional awareness and all these kinds of things that are just incredibly hardwired. And so a big part of what Louise Perry is saying here is that we have to get honest about the fact that men and women are very different. And because they're different, their mindsets, their approaches, their attitudes about sex are different. And what’s happening with our current attitude is that the men are winning. The men are getting more of what they want, and the women are the biggest losers. The women want intimacy. They want connection. They want commitment. And they want families—as they always have. And the sexual revolution has given them far less of any of that. And some women have been so indoctrinated that they think that maybe they don’t want that, and then they realize later in life that they do, and then it feels like it’s too late or they’ve missed out, etc., etc. I have a book somewhere around here called What Our Mothers Didn’t Tell Us, and she makes the same case as well—that she was indoctrinated with the feminist movement ideological tenets and concepts. And she and other women her age realized too late that they actually wanted what was taken from them through the feminist movement. She says the blank-slate view—that socialization is everything, that all that matters is what society tells us, that we’re only playing roles as this Judith Butler idea, that it’s all… what’s the word she uses… like it’s all play-acting. We’re all just taking on the identity of a gender and playing it out. None of its innate. None of it is biological. And so because that’s the case, we can flip-flop between without much interruption or struggle, and society should just adapt to that, and none of this other stuff matters. And she says the blank-slate view gives ultimate authority to society in molding the human character for good or ill. But the truth is many things are very baked in, and we know this to be the case from science. And this is what I think really frustrates me the most—that those who claim to be so analytical and scientifically based throw out the science. They pretend like science is supporting them in these new worldviews and ideologies, and it’s just not. It’s just a different belief system. It’s just a different worldview, which we talk a lot about in the Academy. It’s just a different belief system. And the mindset that we’re completely the same, that sex is just a leisure activity and has no meaning and no emotional or psychological consequences, has basically opened the door to men who don’t want to and aren’t willing to suppress their impulses. That’s really the consequence that we’re looking at in today’s world. Perry says there is a more credible way of understanding the world, but it is one that offers much less scope for human perfectibility, and so it’s much less appealing to utopians. So people that are—and this of course reminded me of A Conflict of Visions by Thomas Sowell and the whole concept that we see the world broadly through one of these two lenses. One is that it’s all socialization and we can perfect the human race, and this is kind of the post-humanist movement. And then the other one says we’re hardwired, there are some things we can’t change, we should go with many of the traditions and things that have gone on before because they work for the human race. Now, you don’t have to have a certain God frame of reference for either of those. Louise Perry talks a lot about evolution. Sounds like that’s her frame of reference, but of course I believe a lot of what she’s saying. One of the people that I thought about when I was thinking about all of these concepts was Ludwig von Mises, who is one of the founders of the Austrian School of Economics. That’s his Human Action book, which is basically an approach to economics that says we’re going to look at human behavior instead of numbers to start, because human behavior is actually what creates an economy, and it’s organic and it grows up on its own. And if we understand laws of human action—we talk a lot here at The Mission Driven Mom about laws of human behavior, laws of nature, the ideal way of being, the first principles we should follow. Mises talks about the laws of human action—the way people do behave, the way they make decisions. Also really, really helpful. We get into that in Level 3. The point is, one of the things that Perry goes on to say as she gets into the next chapter—and I want to find this section to read to you—she says she first came across a book called A Natural History of Rape by Randy Thornhill and Craig T. Palmer, who had done extensive research to try to explain rape from an evolutionary perspective. And she said, “When I first came across the book, I read it compulsively all in one sitting and was left by the end feeling both disconsolate and oddly satisfied. “I was working at the time in a rape crisis center. My job was to work one-on-one with women and girls who had been raped, but I also had a teaching role, training volunteers for our helpline and going into schools to teach consent workshops. The ideology that I was expected to teach lent heavily on a very particular academic model of rape, and over time I had developed doubts about the model.” So again, she has this really unique history with the kinds of things that she’s done and the kinds of spaces that she’s been in. And basically, the idea that she was taught and that she was supposed to teach at this rape crisis center was Susan Brownmiller’s book Against Our Will—the claim that rape has historically more often been conceptualized as a property crime committed against a woman’s male kin rather than a crime committed against the woman herself. Basically, the idea that we have to end the patriarchy and then rape will go away. And she goes on to combat that, to give a bunch of studies to basically show that almost all sex crime is male, that almost all pornography consumption is male, that they have a different sex drive, that they have different sexual tastes, and that they are the ones who are driving those things in the culture—again, like the Hugh Hefner example of the playboy who gets his way. And the problem is that we’ve brought down the guardrails, and so at this point the only guardrail that we have in our culture is a man’s self-discipline. If he really wants to take advantage of a woman, then he just can, unless he stops himself. And so the only thing between him and this woman getting in trouble are him controlling himself, and that’s just not a good way to go. Of course, she quotes Chesterton’s fence, which I think I’ve quoted on this podcast before, which is the basic idea that if you’re going down a country road and you come across a fence and you want to get through to the other side of the road because you like the countryside and you want to keep going, then you shouldn’t just dismantle the fence and drive on. You should stop long enough to ask yourself why the fence is there. And once you understand why the fence is there, and it’s a reason that’s no longer needed, then you can dismantle the fence. And this argument is used a lot when conservatives especially are combating progressive ideas, to say: stop and ask, why are the guardrails there? Why is the fence there? Why do we have all this shame around premarital sex? Why are we discouraging people from getting into bed anytime they want? Why are we pretending like that’s okay? And let’s find out why the fence is there, why those guardrails are there. And one of the things that we said was, “Oh, the guardrails are only there because women can get pregnant.” And with that lead idea, we just proceeded to take down the fence and drive into the utopia of perfect sexual fulfillment for everyone. And actually that’s not what’s happening. You know, all of these kinds of violent sexual crime are way up, and porn use is way up, and men are having a lot of negative consequences with that, and it’s affecting all sorts of marriages. And marriage is down, and pregnancy is down, and birth rates are down, and yet 40% of children are born out of wedlock. And there’s only 20% of families where there’s a mother and a father and their biological children still in the home. And so there’s all this damage done culturally, and it’s breaking down the fabric of our society because we thought the only guardrail that matters is that women get pregnant. And then when we gave them the pill, there were more unwanted pregnancies because everybody decided that was going to save them. And so they just engaged in all this behavior, and then we had to have laws to legalize abortion so that we could get rid of those unwanted pregnancies. And then came the dissolution of the family and marriage and all those consequences that are now doing so much damage to so many people, because we started on the premise of these lies about what sex is, what matters about it, and why the guardrails are there. She says, “We see this play out in male and female sexual behavior. The research is clear. We know that men, on average, prefer to have more sex and with a larger number of partners, that sex buyers are almost exclusively male, that men watch a lot more porn than women do, and that the vast majority of women, if given the option, prefer a committed relationship to casual sex. “Sexual fetishes are also much more commonly found in men than in women, and although the cause of this difference is not well understood, men’s greater average sociosexuality seems to be a factor. All in all, the evidence demonstrates that the acts that have become much more socially acceptable over the last 60 years are acts that men are much more likely to enjoy. It is a good time to be a fetishist, a sex buyer, porn user, playboy. It is the highly sociosexual who have done best out of sexual liberalism, and these people are overwhelmingly male.” She even talks about, in almost all sexual crimes, if the woman is involved, she almost always has a male partner—that she’s assisting a male that’s engaging in that act. Now, I’m going to do something that’s going to be super socially unacceptable, something that people aren’t going to like. Well, let me do this first—I want to read you what Mises says about this whole idea, because she goes back to, “Well, let’s look at animals. Let’s see how animals behave,” and all that kind of stuff. But I don’t love that argument because we do see animals acting in ways that humans shouldn’t act. We are higher than the animals. We are better than the animals, and we shouldn’t be acting as the animals, even though as a very baseline maybe we compare and say we’re doing worse than the animals, but we have the potential to be better than, and even worse than, animals. So this is what Mises says. He’s talking about human behavior, about mankind, about human action and human action principles—how we make the choices that we make, and then ultimately how those actions drive an economy. But just in terms of those fundamental first principles that guide us, I love what Mises says here. “He who acts under an emotional impulse also acts. What distinguishes an emotional action from other actions is the valuation of input and output. Emotions disarrange valuations. Inflamed with passion, man sees the goal as more desirable and the price he has to pay for it as less burdensome than he would in cool deliberation. Men have never doubted that even in the state of emotion means and ends are pondered, and that it is possible to influence the outcome of this deliberation by rendering more costly the yielding to the passionate impulse. To punish criminal offenses committed in a state of emotional excitement or intoxication more mildly than other offenses is tantamount to encouraging such excesses.” So the first point that he’s making is that when we get highly emotional and we act out in that state, we are less self-governed, and we make worse choices that have worse consequences, and that from a criminal standpoint, in our judicial systems and our penal systems, if we give lighter sentences to people who did it because they were emotional, we’re encouraging people to be emotional and make decisions emotionally. He says, “We interpret animal behavior on the assumption that the animal yields to the impulse which prevails at the moment. As we observe that the animal feeds, cohabits and attacks other animals or men, we speak of its instincts of nourishment, of reproduction and of aggression. We assume that such instincts are innate and pre-emptively ask for satisfaction.” So in other words, we have human beings, and they act on emotion, and that makes their actions less valuable for them and others. It makes them worse in every way. And if we compare our behavior to animals, we make exceptions for them because they have impulses, and we say, “Oh, well, that was their impulse. They had to do that.” And then this conclusion: “But it is different with man”—or mankind or humankind. “Man is not a being who cannot help yielding to the impulse that most urgently asks for satisfaction. Man is a being capable of subduing his instincts, emotions and impulses. He can rationalize his behavior. He renounces the satisfaction of a burning impulse in order to satisfy other desires. He is not a puppet of his appetites.” So even though we do sometimes make rash decisions based on passion, we don’t have to. We are above the animals because we have reason and logic and self-control. We don’t have to act according to our impulses. We can stop and think, and we can decide what’s best for us and for others and choose those things instead. “A man does not ravish every female that stirs his senses.” And yet more men ravish females that stir their senses than they used to, because we keep bringing the guardrails down, because our society tells women that they should want to have casual sex, that it will be enjoyable for them, that they should participate in it to get a man’s attention, that they have to do it to compete for the men that they would want to marry, that they have to give men what they want in order to try to get them to make a commitment so that eventually they can have marriage and family. This does not mean women don’t have sexual impulses. It doesn’t mean that they don’t desire men, and it doesn’t mean sometimes that they don’t act rashly. But we know statistically, without a doubt, that even in the moment they often are second-guessing themselves, don’t want to continue with the action, and have way more regrets than men do when they engage in that behavior. It just isn’t how they’re made, and it’s not satisfying for them, and it degrades them. It hurts their confidence, destroys relationships—especially their relationship with themself. So then he goes on: “He does not devour every piece of food that entices him. He does not knock down every fellow he would like to kill. He arranges his wishes and desires into a scale. He chooses. In short, he acts. What distinguishes man from beast is precisely that he adjusts his behavior deliberately. Man is the being that has inhibitions, that can master his impulses and desires, that has the power to suppress instinctive desires and impulses.” So when you take a society and you say, “All the guardrails are down. Do whatever you want. Take this pill. If it doesn’t work, go get this abortion and you’ll be fine. You’ll be fine socially, emotionally, intellectually, spiritually—everything will be fine,” and that’s not what we find. It’s not what’s happening at all. And so clearly that’s not what can work. Now, one of the things she talks about in chapter three is that some desires are bad. Obviously. But when, again, you strip it from its moral context, you take God out of the picture, you don’t have societal mores and structures and guardrails, then what is right and wrong in that instance?   And you can make almost anything right. You can justify almost anything in your mind. And one of the things that I wrote down about that whole thing is that the reason why unbridled sexual behavior is so damaging to society—aside from the millions of things that I’ve already mentioned and all the things that you can think of—is this simple truth. And that is that society is made up of individuals, and individuals are harmed when they do something immoral, even when they do it alone, even when they do it with no one looking, even when no one ever finds out about it. Their character is damaged. They aren’t as confident, they aren’t as faithful, they aren’t as trustworthy, they aren’t as generous or kind, or all the things that you might want to say about someone who’s ignoring their conscience and engaging in behaviors. Or even if their conscience is deadened and they think it’s okay, it’s not okay because it damages them. And when individuals are harmed through their own lack of self-control and deviation from their conscience or from truth—whether or not they know that truth—society is harmed, because society is nothing more than a collection of individuals and families. And when individuals are damaged and families are damaged, society is damaged. And so this is why we have to push back on the sexual revolution. This is why we have to tell ourselves and other people more of the truth. And I am going to do something—I mentioned this a little bit earlier—I’m going to do something that’s going to sound socially unacceptable. And that is, I’m going to pull out my Tocqueville. Okay. This is Democracy in America. This is Alexis de Tocqueville. He was French. He came to America to study the penal system in the early to mid-1800s. He went home, he wrote this big fat book, Democracy in America. France is in trouble. They’ve just come off their revolution and their time with the little guy that was in charge, Napoleon. And now they’re trying to remake their civilization. And Tocqueville is like, okay, well, what’s it like in America? How’s this democracy experiment working out? And he goes through and catalogs—I mean, he is here for, I think, two years. He goes all over the country, he goes out in the sticks, he talks to people in their cabins. He gets a really good sense of what people are like in America, of what the culture is like, of how they interact and all of that kind of stuff. And he’s mostly praising. He’s also contrasting: this is how they do it in America, this is how we do it in France. And there’s this little section where he talks about women and the role of women in—now, this isn’t to do with slavery, this isn’t to do with Native Americans. He’s talking about the Europeans that came to America that were leading in the society and how they’re interacting—the colonial people, just the average citizen in America. And I’m not going to speak to the fact that yes, minorities were taken way more advantage of and that needed to be handled and all that kind of stuff. I’m just going to talk to what Tocqueville says, which I think may surprise you about how women were treated in America, because one of the points that Perry makes—and in fact, I’ll give you this. Okay, so one of the points that she makes early on, which is also part of this whole discussion about what’s gone wrong in the sexual revolution, is that what the culture does is it demonizes the past in order to justify the present. She says, “Within living memory, we have witnessed a very sudden break with the norms of the past, and the necessity of this break is constantly justified in the liberal media through reference to the bad old days.” This kind of present-criticism is parodied beautifully in a 2020 TV adaptation of Huxley’s Brave New World, in which the Savage Lands—more like an Indian reservation in the novel—are reimagined as a theme park devoted to a 21st-century American decline. Okay, so she goes on talking about how they talk about these Savage Lands, blah, blah, blah. And then she says, “This regime encourages the citizens of New London”—this is in the book—“to visit the Savage Land theme park because demonizing the past serves to justify the status quo. Highlighting the evils of the past also serves to distract from the evils of the present.” So what we’ve done in our modern culture, in order to push this feminist movement and sexual revolution forward, is that there’s been this narrative that everything in the past was awful, nothing good was going on, and everything is so much better now. But what I’m going to read to you right now from Tocqueville points out the fact that it wasn’t all worse in the past and better in the present. Okay, so this was originally published—1840. So that’s kind of the timeframe that we’re looking at. So he’s talking about women, and he came from France, and so he’s like, wow, things are so different in America in terms of how they treat their women. So first of all, he talks about how it’s his opinion—and not just his, but a lot of other philosophers have said—that women really are the moral anchor in a family and in a civilization, and that in America, in this time, women were really that for their society, that they got a better education than pretty much anywhere in the world because most women were taught to read, which was just not even happening anywhere else. He says, “Long before an American girl arrives at the marriageable age, her emancipation from maternal control begins. She has scarcely ceased to be a child when she already thinks for herself, speaks with freedom and acts on her own impulse. The great scene of the world is constantly open to her view; far from seeking to conceal it from her, it is every day disclosed more completely, and she is taught to survey it with firm and calm gaze. Thus, the vices and dangers of society are early revealed to her, and she sees them clearly. She views them without illusion and braves them without fear, for she is full of reliance on her own strength, and her confidence seems to be shared by all around her.” And he kind of beats that drum. He talks often about how the women in America are incredibly educated and courageous. They’re trusted and respected by the men in their culture. He says, “As they could not prevent her virtue from being exposed to frequent danger, they determined that she should know how best to defend it, and more reliance was placed on the free vigor of her will than on safeguards which had been shaken or overthrown. Instead, then, of inculcating mistrust of herself, they constantly seek to enhance her confidence in her own strength of character. Far from hiding the corruptions of the world from her, they prefer that she should see them at once and train herself to shun them.” This is just very different than what’s going on in France, where there’s all this overprotection of women. “Although the Americans are a very religious people, they do not rely on religion alone to defend the virtue of women; they seek to arm her reason also. In this respect, they have followed the same method as in several others. They first make vigorous efforts to cause individual independence to control itself, and they do not call in the aid of religion until they have reached the utmost limit of human strength.” This is something—if you’ve read the Little House books, I can’t remember which one it’s in, maybe Little Town on the Prairie. There’s a Fourth of July celebration, and Laura Ingalls goes into town and hears the Declaration of Independence read, and it mingles in her mind. And she comes to understand at 14 or 15 or 16 years old, however old she was, that pretty soon she would be an adult, and no one was going to tell her what to do, that her parents were already letting go and letting her make her own choices. And she says, “I’m going to have to basically make myself mind myself. I’m going to have to be a woman of virtue and self-discipline if I want to be free and have a happy life.” And she says specifically that virtue and freedom are so intimately connected, and you cannot have freedom unless you have self-discipline. They are two sides of the same coin. And that’s one of the reasons why private and public duty were so talked about in that day. It’s one of the reasons why there’s a breakdown socially in our day, because we think that unbridled freedom is what makes us free. It’s the same with the sexual revolution. It’s just this fundamental principle that freedom must be disciplined. I love—one of my very favorite quotes is by Mortimer Adler, and he says, “Liberal education frees our minds by disciplining them.” And so this is why the sexual revolution isn’t working. Because we are not disciplining ourselves. We have decided that anything goes, and we keep making more and more things legal. And what that has meant is that sexual acts have become a commodity, because people think they own their own body and what they do with their body doesn’t matter. And then they destroy their body, or they harm their body and their character with their behavior. And that demeans our society overall, because every individual matters, and every individual character is part of the fabric of the cultural character. It also means that we’re telling ourselves that in this realm, as in others, we don’t have to have discipline, which is so fascinating to me, because we’ll still talk about how much discipline we should have as parents, or how much discipline we should have in professional sports, or how much discipline we should have in whatever area of life. And we just keep wanting to take shortcuts, like all the people that are on pills, you know, to shortcut whatever thing they want to have happen in their life, instead of adhering to the principles of that thing in order to get what they want in the more permanent fix—the fix that gives them what they want while it builds their character. So it’s, he says here, “I am aware that an education of this kind is not without danger. I’m sensible that it tends to invigorate the judgment at the expense of the imagination, and to make cold and virtuous women instead of affectionate wives and agreeable companions to man. Society may be more tranquil and better regulated, but domestic life has fewer charms. These, however, are secondary evils which may be braved for the sake of higher interests. At the stage at which we have now arrived, the choice is no longer left to us.” A democratic education—and this is an education for freedom. This is what we would call a classical liberal education, the traditional education that we used to have that has been stolen from us, that many of you moms that are listening have never had the opportunity to have. And it is what made these women of the past so disciplined and virtuous and the upholders. Anyway. “Democratic education is indispensable to protect a woman from the dangers with which democratic institutions and manners surround them.” So as freedom is increased, women need to be more and more virtuous. Okay, so then he goes on, talking about women in different ways, about how courageous they are. And then he has a few things to say like this: “Although the travelers who have visited North America differ on many points, they all agree in remarking that morals are far more strict there than elsewhere. It is evident that on this point, the Americans are very superior to their progenitors, the English.” So this morality undergirds the civilization. It makes for the incredible freedom, and if you go back and look at records, you can see that it corresponds with other elements of growth and success. Okay, now I’m going to talk for just one minute before we finish up about how all of this plays into, going back to the beginning, about equality of the sexes. Because what we’ve done is try to eradicate self-discipline, eradicate virtue, pretend like personal character doesn’t matter, pretend like everything—like it’s not the case that every action we take is building the kind of person we’re becoming and that that doesn’t matter at all. All of those things matter. And also that we’re different. We can be equal but different. And what we’re doing in our society—what the feminist movement has done, what the sexual revolution is doing—is trying to create equal and same. And what we had earlier in America was equal but different. And although that meant certain consequences for certain people, certain limitations of what they could do, they had incredible autonomy. Basically what you find in earlier civilizations and in earlier America is almost complete autonomy in the private realm for women, where they ran the private sector almost without men interrupting or butting into their business. They ran the charities, they ran the bazaars, they helped give birth to the babies and put on the weddings, and they did a lot of educating at home. They did a lot of the charitable work and the giving and all of that because they didn’t have to worry about the public sector, because the men ran the public sector. And I can see why women would want to be more involved in the public sector and why they would want to have more freedom in that way, be able to vote and whatnot. And I’m not saying that that is a bad thing. I’m just saying, let’s stop pretending like everything today is peachy keen and everything in the past was terrible. So I’m going to read you a couple things as we finish up here. “There are people in Europe who, confounding together the different characteristics of the sexes, would make man and woman into beings not only equal but alike. They would give to both the same functions, impose on both the same duties and grant to both the same rights. They would mix them in all things—their occupations, their pleasures, their business.” And isn’t that where we’ve arrived? Isn’t that what’s happening? Aren’t we trying to be equal and same? I mean, didn’t the feminist movement tell us that we should dress like men and act like men—even sexually—that we should do what they do and go where they go and be in the same positions that they’re in, and that every time something like that happens, we call it a triumph? While, in the meantime, fewer and fewer babies are being born to a two-parent family and being cared for full-time by their mother. And that’s not always possible, and I’m not blaming anybody or calling anybody out. I’m just saying society is suffering by some of these changes. And so we have to be careful in how we talk about the past and how we talk about the present and the kind of solutions that we think we want. He goes on, “It may readily be conceived that by thus attempting to make one sex equal to the other, both are degraded.” Men don’t know who they are. Women don’t know who they are. We can’t even define what a woman is because we’ve made them the same. He says, “And from so preposterous a medley of the works of nature nothing could ever result but weak men and disorderly women.” Now he goes on to talk about how men and women have very strict divisions of labor, more so than a lot of other places. He says, “There are two clearly distinct lines of action for the two sexes and to make them keep pace with one another, but in two pathways that are always different. American women never manage the outward concerns of the family, or conduct a business, or take part in political life; nor are they, on the other hand, ever compelled to perform the rough labor of the fields or to make any of those laborious efforts which demand the exertion of physical strength. And no families are so poor as to form an exception to this rule.” So even though there are limitations on the kinds of things women can do, they also are never forced to do any particular thing, especially anything that is a man’s role. And they also have complete freedom within the realm in which they’re stationed. They contribute economically to the family, they run the family, and they have a lot of autonomy. And he says, a lot of people look at this and they’re like, “Oh, isn’t that too bad?” And he says, “I never observed that the women of America consider conjugal authority as a fortunate usurpation of their rights, or that they thought themselves degraded by submitting to it.” So his experience in America was that women felt respected. They felt loved. They felt taken care of as a general rule. They enjoyed the role that they held in the home and in the family, and they were happy to submit to good men who took good care of them. And what you find today—and this isn’t popular to say—is that a lot of women want to be stay-at-home moms, and a lot of women want to be taken care of. There’s this new trend—in fact, someone was telling me that members of my family are engaging in this new trend of “stay-at-home girlfriend.” They also have the “trad wives.” All these kinds of things are looping back. So now he’s going to compare it to France. “It’s often been remarked that in Europe a certain degree of contempt lurks even in the flattery which men lavish upon women. Although a European frequently affects to be a slave of women”—so in France and in Europe, men will pretend like they worship women and they think women are all of that and they’re incredible—“but it may be seen that he never sincerely thinks her his equal.” Now again, you have to take time periods, where they’re at in so many ways. In America in 1840, we were way ahead of the curve. Women were treated with way more respect, with way more equality, given way more education, way more frame in which to work and have autonomy than many, if not all, other places in the world. He says, “In the United States, men seldom compliment women”—so they don’t do this thing like in France where they’re always talking about how gorgeous they are and being flirty—“but they daily show how much they esteem them. They constantly display an entire confidence in the understanding of a wife and a profound respect for her freedom. They have decided that her mind is just as fitted as that of a man to discover the plain truth and her heart as firm to embrace it; and they have never sought to place her virtue, any more than his, under the shelter of prejudice, ignorance or fear. “Americans rarely lavish women with these eager attentions which are commonly paid them in Europe, but their conduct to women always implies that they suppose them to be virtuous and refined. Such is the respect entertained for the moral freedom of the sex that, in the presence of a woman, the most guarded language is used, lest her ear should be offended by an expression.” So they honor and respect her virtue. They watch their tongues. They’re careful in their behavior. They treat her with incredible respect, but they listen to her. They care about her opinion. They take it into consideration, and they give her freedom and autonomy in her role. And then it says, “The legislators of the United States, who have mitigated almost all the penalties of criminal law, still make rape a capital offense, and no crime is visited with more inexorable severity by public opinion. “They consider nothing more precious than a woman’s honor and nothing which ought so much to be respected as her independence. They hold that no punishment is too severe for a man who deprives her of them against her will.” So if you committed rape, you were killed. And we don’t even have those strict of laws today. So we’ve loosened up our laws. We’ve made it harder and harder to convict, because there’s more and more sexual acts being committed, and even sometimes the women aren’t sure if they were consenting. And consenting is not the way to have a guardrail around sexual behavior. It just doesn’t work. And Louise Perry goes into why that’s the case. It says, “Thus, the Americans do not think that men and women have either the duty or the right to perform the same offices, but they show an equal regard for both in their respective parts; and though their lot is different, they consider both of them as beings of equal value.” So there was good stuff going on. His impression and experience in America was that, as a general rule, women were content with their role. They felt educated, intelligent, respected, loved and honored in their role, and their virtue was protected—and physically as well. And then he says, “Thus then, while they have allowed the social inferiority of women to continue”—in other words, she doesn’t have a lot of authority in the public space, she can’t hold public office—“they have done all they could to raise her morally and intellectually to the level of man; and in this respect, they appear to me to have excellently understood the true principle of democratic improvement.” And then he goes on to finish, “I have nowhere…”—and this is so important—and, in fact, before I finish that out, I want to tell you a couple things about this other book by Leonard Sax. One of the things that’s really fascinating that he goes into is bullying in this other book, and he’s talking about the difference between boys and girls and the difference in how they bully. And then he talks about how he has worked with over 400 schools. Let me see—I think he says he has worked with over 400 schools on this area of bullying and this issue, and how to handle it. And he says, “Sexual harassment is a form of bullying, but the motivation is different. The most common form of sexual harassment is a boy harassing a girl who has rejected his advances. To my observation, at more than 400 schools, the schools that are most effective in preventing sexual harassment are those that teach girls and boys to be ladies and gentlemen. A gentleman does not harass a lady, and a lady will not tolerate harassment.” So they build up character. They inculcate the children with virtue and confidence, and that solves the problem more than posters or awareness or trainings or shamings or punishments. It’s by elevating those boys and girls, by lifting them to a higher plane and helping them understand that they can be more noble, they can be better, they can be more self-disciplined, they can rein in their passions. And so that leveling up of their character stops the problem. He goes on to say, “Gender is more fragile than we knew, though perhaps we should have known better. Most cultures have taken great care in teaching gender norms. We no longer do. On the contrary”—and contrast this with what I just said was going on in America almost 200 years ago—“on the contrary, our learned professors now actively deconstruct and tear down every gender guidepost in the name of individual liberty,” which is what I’ve said throughout this podcast: that we think that it’s unbridled freedom to do whatever you want, whenever you want, with no self-discipline. And that is not true. When you lose self-discipline, you lose freedom. Period. Personal liberty: you lose discipline, you become an addict. You’re not free when you’re an addict. So then he goes on, “When you tear down every gender guidepost in the name of individual liberty with no awareness of the costs, we need to be careful about the norms we teach. Of course, we don’t want to perpetuate stereotypes like the dumb jock or the dumb blonde. We need to create new ideals of manhood and womanhood that make sense in the 21st century.” We still need women that are women. We need to explore what femininity means, why women want to be protected and cared for, why they still want to have families and children, what it is in our makeup—whether you defer to a God-creation story or an evolution story, it still comes down to the same hard wiring—and we need to be honest about why, like Chesterton’s fence, those guardrails have been up in society for centuries and centuries, and why they’ve worked. He goes on, “Personhood won’t fly. Boys don’t want to be persons. Neither do girls. Boys want to be men. Girls want to be women. We have to teach them what that means.” And so you teach them to be ladies and gentlemen. They rein themselves in. They have greater discipline, which creates greater freedom, and then everyone in the school respects each other more. And so I’m not saying that the guardrails and the male–female roles in 1840 America were perfect, and I’m not saying there wasn’t room for improvement, but I’m saying there were clear lines and clear divisions. It was very clear what you did to be a man and very clear what you did to be a woman. And women were protected. They were safe. He talks about how a young woman could go on a long trip alone and be safe. You can’t even do that now. It was safer for young women in America in 1840 because of the laws, because of the self-discipline, because of the culture, because of the protection of virtue. And now women are—the MeToo movement, I mean, just look around—they’re getting violated all the time because they’ve been fed a bunch of lies about who they are, about everybody being the same, about unbridled passions and sexual behaviors. So I’m going to read you two last things really quickly as we finish up. This first one is at the end of the book by Louise Perry. I’m going to tell you a couple things that she says and then take us back to Tocqueville for a beautiful cap, and what he said was going on in 1840 and his opinion about the role of women and women and moms. Listen. It’s okay to teach your children to be gentlemen and ladies. In fact, it’s important. You should protect their virtue. You should encourage waiting, if not till marriage, waiting a long time. You should talk about the importance of living according to traditional sexual mores. I mention this some in my new book when I’m talking about the natural law and how quickly that broke down from the sexual revolution, and even the churches participated, and how damaging that is. We can’t just go with the flow. We have to stop and think, to look at Chesterton’s fence and say, why were these the guardrails, and were people better off as a general rule? Were people better off in 1840? That’s worth thinking about. So Louise Perry says, “A monogamous marriage system is successful in part because it pushes men away from cad mode, particularly when premarital sex is also prohibited”—again, particularly when premarital sex is also prohibited. If women don’t give it to men, they’ll have to marry them and make a formal commitment, where they will have to be in a covenant of marriage with a spouse and be responsible for the babies that they bring into the world, and they can be held accountable legally if they won’t do that. And women and our daughters are participating, unfortunately, in this premarital sex culture that is just doing so much damage. “Under these circumstances, if a man wants to have sex in a way that’s socially acceptable, he has to make himself marriageable, which means holding down a good job and setting up a household suitable for the raising of children.” And by the time you’ve gotten through all of Louise Perry’s arguments and studies and statistics, hopefully a lot of people agree with her by the end, because women are incredibly unhappy in this culture and their virtue is not being protected or honored at all. They’re being taken advantage of, and they’re very unhappy and unfulfilled, so many of them. And this is—I mean, what I just read you was 1840. That’s what happened. No premarital sex, guys. And you’ve got to make yourself good marriage material so that a valuable woman will want to be with you. “He has to tame himself. In other words, fatherhood then has a further taming effect, even at the biochemical level. When men are involved in the care of their young children, their testosterone levels drop alongside their aggression and sex drive. A society composed of tame men is a better society to live in for men, for women and for children.” Because discipline brings confidence, and it brings character, and it brings a better society. Then she goes on: “For some women, paid work outside of the home is a joy and a privilege. For many more, it is a responsibility, and often an onerous one.” And she knows, because she’s talked to a lot of women. “Even those women who enjoy their work are physically incapable of performing it during the early months of a baby’s life. I should know. I began this book at the beginning of my pregnancy and completed it when my son was six months old. Writing is probably one of the easiest jobs to combine with motherhood, but even so, there were weeks on end during which I didn’t write a word because I was too busy caring for my baby. “And while I could be practically supported by other people, including my husband, I was irreplaceable as mother—not only because I was the only person who could breastfeed, but also because children have a relationship with their mothers that starts from conception, and that relationship cannot be handed over without distress to both mother and baby.” And there’s a lot of good research around that bond as well. It’s irreplaceable. There are certain chemical things and mental, psychological things that happen to a child who’s bonded to their mother in that first year, connected to them physically and being with them almost all the time, that builds a sense of security and stability that you can’t otherwise really get without it. “I have just one piece of advice to offer in this chapter, and you’ve probably already guessed what it will be. So here it is: get married, and do your best to stay married, particularly if you have children and particularly if those children are still young. And if you do find yourself in the position of being a single mother, wait until your children are older before you bring a stepfather into their home.” And then she goes on, “I know that lifelong marriage, in a sense, is unnatural. It’s not the human norm,” blah, blah, blah. But then she says, “The marriage system has prevailed in the West up until recently. It was not perfect, nor was it easy for most people to conform to, since it demanded high levels of tolerance and self-control. Where the critics go wrong is in arguing that there is any better system. There isn’t.” And to cap us off, I’m going to read you this last quote that I absolutely love by Tocqueville that speaks to the very heart of who you are. I know this is who you are—what he says right here: “I have nowhere else seen women occupying a loftier position. And if I were asked, now that I am drawing to the close of this work in which I have spoken of so many important things done by the Americans, to what the singular prosperity and growing strength of that people ought mainly to be attributed, I should reply: to the superiority of their women.” Mothers and women who are listening to me, know how irreplaceable you are. Your virtue matters. Your character matters. Your commitment to motherhood and womanhood and femininity matter. Your commitment to proper roles, to teaching boys to be gentlemen and girls to be women, teaching your children to be abstinent sexually and to wait until marriage—all of these things make a better society for us. I believe they’re also spiritual in nature. I believe they nurture us in our relationship with ourselves and with God. I believe they make our world a better place in a myriad of ways we can’t even tangibly understand. But just from the social–economic perspective, it’s invaluable. It’s critical. It’s mission critical. And we have to push back on the sexual revolution and the feminist movement in meaningful ways and say, “No, we’re not doing that. We’re going to make a different world for our children.” We are on a mission to find our missions and to use them in the service of our families and communities. And we’re partnering. We’re linking arms with each other and with men and women of good faith who want to reinstitute and restore better systems, better virtues to our culture. I’m here. We’re doing this together. Let’s link arms and make our world a better one for our children and our grandchildren by being the stalwart women of character. Work on your education. Learn how to push back properly. Develop your skills of identifying and living according to principles. Learn the worldviews that will help you build bridges. Discover your gifts and talents so that you can use them to serve your fellowmen, and we, together, will make this world a better place to live. Thank you so much for joining me today, and I’ll see you next time.    

Get Your FREE Chapters in Audio format from The Mission Driven Life: Discover and Fulfill Your Unique Contribution to the World: https://www.themissiondrivenmom.com/ In this episode, Audrey Rindlisbacher introduces her new book How Truth Makes You Free, the culmination of 25 years of studying the meaning of Jesus’s teaching that “the truth shall make you free.” She explains how objective truth—known historically as the natural law—governs every aspect of human life and cannot be broken, only broken against. Audrey outlines how understanding first principles, governing principles, and their applications creates a reliable formula for solving even the most difficult personal, relational, financial, and health challenges. She shares examples from her own marriage, family, health, and business, illustrating how aligning with truth leads to permanent freedom, personal transformation, and lasting success. Part One of her book defines truth and freedom; Part Two provides actionable steps for applying principles to any area of life. Ultimately, the episode teaches that anyone can live a principle-centered life, discern truth, and experience real liberation. _________________ Transcript (AI Generated) Welcome back to the podcast. I am Audrey Rindlisbacher. I'm the author of The Mission Driven Life and Founder of the Mission Driven Mom, and I have been thinking for probably 25 years about what Jesus meant when He said, “The truth shall make you free.” Now, I don’t know if you’ve put very much thought into that, but I’ve asked myself thousands of questions around that concept. What is truth? How does truth work? How would we be made free? What does it mean to be free? And this has sent me on an incredible journey through thousands of books, trying to really get to the bottom of what this could mean for me. I think that religious people hear this phrase, and it means that Jesus can free them and liberate them in a myriad of ways, and I think that’s probably true. That’s probably a lot of what it means. But I have just spent the last year putting everything that I’ve learned about this principle—which I believe is a true principle, a first principle—and I’ve been putting it into my new book, How Truth Makes You Free, and I finally finished writing it on Friday. Yay. So excited. And I thought it might be a fun idea today on this podcast, this Thanksgiving week when we all have some downtime, if I spent a couple of minutes walking you through how the book is outlined and some of the things that you can expect to find in this book when it’s released in the spring—some of the epiphanies that I’ve come to about what truth is, what it means to be made free, and why it matters so much. Because this is not just the culmination of everything I’ve learned, although that's definitely one of the major things it is. It’s a guide. It walks you through. It’s a proven formula. I have now been teaching this for a decade or more. I have worked with thousands of students, even just in my Academy. We've had over 600 women come through there to this point. And so these are concepts that have proven to be freeing in my own personal life as I came to understand truth and true principles and why they matter so much. And then we became free in very concrete and meaningful ways. And then, of course, I found so many answers in so many of the great readings that I spent time in, and with great mentors that I spent time with, and then, of course, being able to share it out with all of our students. So let me just walk you through a little bit of what you’re going to find in this book when it comes out—some of the things that you can look forward to. I hope that I can shorten the learning curve for you. I hope that I can present—or have presented now; we’ll edit, we’ll figure it out, we’ll get a cover, all of those things will be coming—and I can talk to you over the next few months as we put those things in place. But what is this whole thing that is basically my life’s work, that I’ve spent the last 25 years working on? Why does it matter so much to me? Why does it matter so much to other people? And what can you expect to find in this book when it comes out? Because I hope that in the same way it has revolutionized my life and completely transformed me, and so many of the individuals I've worked with, I hope it can do the same for you. And that’s why I’ve condensed so much of what I’ve learned into this book. And let’s just get into it. I’m going to spend the next few minutes walking you through what you can expect to find—the concepts that I’ve covered and how this book can be of use to you. So the book is divided into two parts, and Part One is all about what truth is and how it makes us free. It walks you through the meanings of those things and how you can understand them properly. And then Part Two is a practical guide. It takes everything that you’ve learned in Part One and gives you very actionable steps that you can take to actually practice the things that I’ve taught you. Now, the first chapter gets into how we all have problems, and sometimes we have problems that we just legitimately do not have the first idea how to solve. And sometimes those problems have been around for a really long time, and maybe we've tried lots of things. Maybe we've been to therapy, maybe we've read books. Maybe it's even an addiction and you’ve been to rehab. You know, the book starts out talking about my and my husband’s challenge with his sexual addiction and the difficulties that that created in our lives—and how much pain and anguish, and after such a long time, having the struggle since the time he was a child and now bringing it into our marriage and all of those kinds of things. And so we know a little bit about problems that seem unsolvable. But then I mention many other problems that I was facing—other marital issues, trying to parent my children, big problems with extended family, really big career problems, business problems, financial issues. We went through a lot of those, and even in the last few years, more health issues than we'd ever had before. And in every case, we have been able to use this formula, to use this simple concept that there is truth and it can make us free. Jesus taught us that, and He isn't the only one to say it, but He is the one who made it the most famous—that there is truth, and it can make us free. And so the first chapter of the book is just to introduce you to this and help you understand that I get it. I’ve been there. I've worked with many people. They have been there. And the formula I'm going to lay out for you in the coming chapters does work, and there’s lots and lots of proof around the fact that it really does work. Then the second chapter dives into this concept of truth. What in the world is truth? What do we mean by that? There are a lot of ways that you could potentially define truth. There's one particular way that I am taking you on this journey around truth, and it is objective truth—things that are always true, whether we like it or not. Things that, as Cecil B. DeMille said, are laws—immutable laws of this world, at least—that we cannot break, but that we can only break ourselves against. And I give you some analogies to help you have some visual images, some mental images that will help navigate your thinking process around truth. And I hope these analogies will provide some anchors for you. They will help you have some comparisons that you can make, because the things that I need to share with you when I'm helping you understand what truth is—they’re abstract. You know, they're kind of high-level. And I understand that they can become overwhelming or difficult. So I want to make this as simple as possible. So I've given you these images, these analogies, so that you can walk through what I'm telling you about objective truth. And the way that it’s been talked about all through Western history is the natural law. I take you back to the Greeks, and I take you back to where I found out about the concept of natural law and why that matters so much and how it revolutionized my life and made all the difference for me as I came to understand it. How it’s been talked about traditionally as a framework of natural law and first principles, and how the natural law is also something that is known to all humankind.   It is something that many people today will say isn’t real. They'll try to talk you out of it. They'll tell you that the natural law framework isn't legitimate, it's not objectively true. That's just not the case. I present a lot of research that I did in finding the resources that really do champion the natural law and demonstrate and prove definitively that it is a worldwide concept—that it is known all over the world, that it is honored all over the world, and has been all back through history. Our belief systems about truth as human beings have been consistently pretty similar, and like C. S. Lewis says, far more similar than they’ve been different. So I give you all of that rich evidence and context to help you really get your mind around this thing called natural law. And I think even for women who have been in the Academy, there will be some new ideas, some nuances, some concepts around it that maybe you haven't put together or that haven’t been presented to you in quite this way. And so I’m really, really excited for it to get us all on the same page using the same language and understanding these concepts the same way. Now, there are many books that talk about natural law that I have studied and could bring out, but many of them are pretty scholarly. And probably one of the most common ways that it has slipped into something that might be more like a modern read—something more understandable—would usually be in the government or economic space, because we’re talking about law and what law is and all those kinds of things. So I help you understand objective truth in the format of natural law, and that natural law is immutable. It has always been around. We can only break ourselves against it; we cannot break it. And so we must align ourselves with it. In the next chapter, I walk you through that framework as it’s been delineated by the American Founders in the Declaration of Independence. I walk you through the concepts of first principles and principles and applications. I give you other examples, give you more evidence, and help you really get your mind around why it matters so much—how they build on each other, what they mean. And of course, this goes all the way back. Aristotle was talking about first principles. This is nothing new. One of the things that I think is really—I don’t know—interesting maybe about me or about what we do with the Mission Driven Mom is just that I really don’t say much that’s actually original and authentic just to me. Mostly, I go out and grab the best resources for you. Mostly, I read what the great people have said all the way through time, and I collate them, and I put them in an order and a format that’s helpful for you. I'm mostly always trying to give you shortcuts. I'm always trying to get you to the best content that will help you right now, but also level up your way of thinking and help you have new mental maps that will expedite your path forward. Because what happens when you really understand these three chapters that I’ve talked about so far—when you really get there, when you really arrive at an understanding that there’s objective truth, that it’s in the form of natural law, that there are first principles and applications, that they are immutable, that we can only break ourselves against them, we cannot break them, and that what we must do is align our lives with them—you have really the most beautiful formula for success. One of my favorite—I don’t know if you want to call it definitions or quotes—is by Stephen Covey, and he said that “the internalization of correct principles is the foundation upon which all lasting success and happiness are based.” That is absolutely 100% true. I have found that to be true for myself and for all these other people that I have worked with. But I also find it over and over again in some of the oddest places, even among men and women who wouldn’t necessarily agree with each other on many other things. It’s undeniable that there are things we intuitively know, that there are principles that govern the key areas of our lives, and that when we go out and seek those out and live them, everything changes for us. And that is the foundation upon which success and happiness are based. So then I start talking about what it means to be made free. That does not mean that problems always disappear. It means that we change in our relationship to that problem. We understand the governing principles over that area of life, and so then that is no longer an obstacle to our personal growth. Things in our lives that are blocking us, that are damning us, that are standing in our way no longer stand in our way. We are given the tools to break free of whatever is chaining us, whatever is keeping us stuck, and we know how to move forward in our lives. In other words, if you have a handicap, to be made free doesn’t necessarily mean that the handicap goes away. It doesn’t necessarily mean that your husband is suddenly different or that your child stops rebelling. It means that you know how to break through that thing that’s got you stuck, and you know how to move forward in your life in productive and helpful and healthy ways because you are armed with truth, and that truth makes you free. And so in this chapter, I give you some really incredible examples of the four different areas in which you can be made free—the four different types of problems that we have. I did a podcast a few months ago on those four types of problems drawn from the book. And I give you examples of those and demonstrate what it means to be made free and what you can expect now that you understand that there are these truths. When you embrace these truths, what's going to happen to you? What’s the outcome that you can always be guaranteed? Then I talk about the mechanism of how we recognize truth. What does it mean to be able to identify truth? That is a lot about the conscience—the divine and the social consciences—how they’re different, why that matters so much, and how the mechanism of the divine conscience is the vehicle through which we can identify truth. And as we do that, and as we hone that, we become better and better and better at identifying those truths that will make us free. And that whole framework gives you the foundation for knowing what you need to do to move forward in your life. You need to latch onto first principles, and they will tell you why you are doing what you are doing. They will give you the purpose, the meanings, the motivation, and they are intuitively known. They will intuitively reach the hearts of others. And then you need to seek out the principles that govern that area of life you want to work on. You want to work on your finances. You want to work on your health. It doesn’t matter what you want to work on—there are principles you can go out and find. And then you apply them. And there are a myriad of ways that you can do that. And so Part Two is just that. I walk you through the steps. How can you identify first principles? How can you then take those first principles and go out and seek for principles? What are the many different ways that you can begin applying those principles to infuse your life with new tools and truths that will liberate you permanently from the problems that you face? So I’m about to send this off. I'm going to do one last read, and I'm going to send it off to my editor, and we are going to keep sculpting it and shaping it and making it exactly what it needs to be for you and for anyone else you want to pass it along to. We plan to create a book cover, obviously, get it all edited, and do a big book launch in the spring, which I'm super duper excited about. But I can tell you this is a proven formula. I can tell you now, on this side of things, that the truth has made us free. My husband has permanent sobriety. Our finances are stable and flourishing. My health has—I wasn’t walking last spring, and now I’m walking. And that’s a whole other story of finding the principles that would make me free in regards to my hip and my back. And I hiked three miles about a month ago. And so, whether it’s business—this is MDM 2.0, and we're excited for some new rebranding that’s coming in, better marketing and better systems—and we’ve up-leveled the Academy like we talked about last week, and learned the business principles that will make this succeed at an even higher level. Our marriage is unified and close and vulnerable and beautiful, and our relationships with our children and our friends and our extended family are doing well. So my life is far from perfect. I just have to say that. I know you might get the wrong message. I still have really unhealthy mental patterns and lots of problems that I face and issues and worries and all of the things. But what I can tell you is that I’m only doing as well as I am doing—I only know my way forward—because I know that principles will make me free. It's only because I understand that this framework is the true framework of reality, and that I have the mental maps and the skill sets for discernment because of the education that I've given myself. I mean, those principles of education—that's what we follow in our Academy. That’s what we give to our moms: the tool sets to be able to live this way, to have a principle-centered life. And it is just far more peaceful. You don’t feel like you have to figure everything out all the time. You don’t feel like you have to be the expert or you have to just listen to the experts blindly. You are the authority in your own life because you understand what principles are and how to find and delineate them. You can recognize truth regardless of the source, regardless of the delivery. And this book is going to be a big piece of the puzzle for helping so many of us be able to live this way. Now, I do think you need to go on to give yourself the education that will really transform the way that you think permanently, but that’s Part Two. And you can do that in our Academy, or you can do that in a myriad of other ways. I highly recommend that you get serious about giving yourself that education that will help you discern and live in truth. But this book will be a big part of that formula, and I hope that the work that I’ve put in—the countless hours over the last 25 years of finding the resources and finding the proof and testing it on myself and helping others to walk this path and then putting it all together in this book—will be a great blessing to you and to many others who are lifted by this one beautiful truth: that the truth can make us free, as long as we identify it and infuse it into our lives. Everything changes. We can be genuinely transformed. We can find permanent solutions for the significant problems we face, and we can have a different life than we’ve ever had. So thank you so much for joining me today. If this podcast is blessing your life, please pass it along and give us a review. That really helps us to grow. And I hope all those listening are having a wonderful and beautiful Thanksgiving Day, and I will see you next time.    

Get Your FREE Chapters in Audio format from The Mission Driven Life: Discover and Fulfill Your Unique Contribution to the World: https://www.themissiondrivenmom.com/  Today’s podcast discussion --Inside the New Mission Driven Mom Academy! This episode provides an in-depth update on the transformation and relaunch of the Mission Driven Mom Academy (MDM 2.0) and highlights the purpose, structure, and impact of the Academy’s three-level curriculum based on The Seven Laws of Life Mission. Audrey is joined by longtime collaborators Lindsay Wright and Tracie Hyde, who share why they returned to serve as mentors and leaders after several years away. Their stories emphasize the Academy’s ability to transform mothers' self-understanding, leadership capacity, spiritual grounding, and family culture. They outline how the Academy helps mothers build foundational self-knowledge, articulate principles clearly, and understand worldviews and servant leadership in order to influence their families and communities for good. They describe new features—including a community platform, workshops, accountability partnerships, mentoring support, and a member directory—designed to provide deeper connection, structure, and real-world application for women seeking to grow. Throughout the episode, the women share specific transformations they experienced personally: overcoming victim-thinking, discovering strengths, developing leadership, improving family relationships, and guiding their children more intentionally. They also share updates on the upcoming Mothers of Creation conference and new opportunities for both new and returning Academy members. The episode ultimately conveys a clear and passionate call for mothers to step into mission-driven living, deepen their education, and join a supportive, principle-centered community devoted to renewing culture through virtue and truth. __________________ Transcript (AI generated) Welcome back to the podcast. I'm Audrey Rindlisbacher, the founder of The Mission Driven Mom and author of The Mission Driven Life, and thank you for joining us. If this podcast is bringing enlightenment and aid to your life, please share it out and give us a review—that helps us grow our reach. Today I am really lucky to have Lindsay Wright and Tracy Hyde to talk to us for a few minutes about all things Academy. Those of you that have been with us for a little while are going to be familiar with their faces. They’re incredible women who’ve been here from the very beginning. We were getting up at five in the morning and talking about the books that should be in the Academy. It was hard, but it was great fun—really rewarding. And we launched together and did a bunch of events together, and they mentored for a long time in the Academy. They’re incredible mentors and guides. We are all products of everything that we teach. It's blessed our lives. It's changed the way we think. We want to keep giving it back out and guiding you through those seven laws of life mission. And so the Academy is kind of new and improved. We spent a little bit of time moving it to a new platform. There was a period of time when mentoring wasn't available, but we know there are a lot of you out there who own lifetime access to the Academy, as well as, of course, many women we want to reach—women we'd love to bring into this beautiful environment to become friends with and to walk together on our mission journeys. So we just want to update you on some of the things that are new and improved. And I want to start by talking to Lindsay and Tracy. There was a time when they weren't involved with MDM, and they've come back this year on our invitation. And so I want to just ask them first: what prompted them to come back? Either of you can start—why you’re here and what you're hoping to give to moms. So for me, the reason I came back is because I do believe in the message and the vision of The Mission Driven Mom. The vision has become so clear of what it is that we're trying to do—that we want to create a movement of mothers and of women that can influence the culture. Yes, there's so many things—there are a lot of good things happening in the world today, but there's also a lot of things that I would like to change, and I would like to have some friends on the journey with me. And I just know—we’ve seen it so many times—that if you change a mom, you change a family, you change a community. We just have so much influence as mothers. So I just believe in the message. I believe in the vision. I know that it's changed my life for the better. I am not the same person that I was. And in fact, I'm not the same person that I was even a few years ago. I have continued with my education, continued to try to live the laws of life mission, and it just feels good to be back and to be able to offer the skills and talents that I've developed over the last few years—to offer that to The Mission Driven Mom community. Oh, that's awesome. Before we move on to Tracy, Lindsay, I have a follow-up question, just based on what you said. So tell us a little bit about what you did for those couple of years when you weren't as involved with MDM. How did you continue to grow? What projects were you working on? So the biggest project was teaching an online humanities class, and it's one of my favorite things to do. It's a four-year cycle. We go through ancient Greece, we read The Iliad and The Odyssey. We move through ancient Rome. This year we’re studying the Renaissance up through the American and French Revolutions—principles of government and natural rights, some of the things that we learned about in the Academy. And then next year we'll do modernism and postmodernism. What's been fantastic is that I'm still in the classics. So my education has increased just by reading these great books and being able to discuss these great ideas. I love mentoring, so it’s a class for high school students, and I have loved mentoring them. I can see the change that it makes in their lives. This used to be the standard education that everybody would get, right? Reading the classics, discussing and asking questions—and it's not anymore. We've been robbed of a great education. So I watch these high school students, and they struggle with the readings, but they grow so much. These ideas, just like with the moms, are lighting a fire in their minds and their hearts. It's so fun to see the transformation even over a semester or over a year. Some of them have been with me two years now, and they've taken the class longer than that. They’re just outstanding students who are going to bring that into the things they do in the world. So it's very rewarding in that way. Oh, that's awesome. And you've done some stuff with moms too. What’s that other great books… something… what’s it called? We did the Gateway Project. Gateway—that’s what it’s called. That’s right. So I took moms through… so behind me, I’ve got the Great Books of the Western World set by Mortimer Adler, and he wrote a ten-volume set called The Gateway to the Great Books, which was meant for high school students to prepare them to read the great books. The readings are a little bit shorter and a little bit easier—although they’re plenty hard enough for all of us. But it was a good mix for moms. We would read a selection and discuss it for an hour a week, and it was the same thing. It’s just so fun to see what this kind of education does for anyone. And I know some of those, at least, were Academy students—Academy graduates who are also continuing their lifelong learning and continuing to dig deeper into principles. So great. So much to learn. It’s great. All right. Tracy, how about you? I want to echo a lot of what Lindsay said. I think she really summed up why I came back as well. I just believe in this cause and want to uplift women and give them the opportunity to have this education. And I knew that I could fill a place that Audrey needed filled because I come with a lot of experience—years of building the Academy with Audrey and Lindsay and Julie Greenman, which was a wonderful experience for me, and then several years of mentoring Level One and Level Two and working on Level Three with Audrey. And we hope to have that out. Yeah, that'll be out next year. But I just felt like—it wasn't like it was a duty—but it felt like that was God’s call to me: to come back and insert myself into the things I had been doing already with MDM, knowing that I could make a difference with that. And what I’ve been doing in the meantime: actually, I’ve been spending a lot of time with Lindsay doing the humanities course. Julie Greenman started that class and then handed it off to Lindsay last year. So I’m a four-year graduate. This year I'm really sad that I'm not taking humanities because I finished. And we were doing the Gateway Project together and continuing our education together. I just love learning with women, and I wanted to keep doing that. So I'm really excited to be back and excited to get this off the ground and to more women. That's awesome. Well, anyone listening can appreciate that these women come with so much experience. They’ve been mentoring for a very long time. They know this material inside and out. And as Tracy said, she was running the Academy at one point previously and is our Academy Director again. Lindsay is a mentor with us but also helped with some of the restructuring of the Academy. Again, we've done this so much and so many times—we just keep getting to make it better, which is really a joy. Tracy has been taking all of the… we used to have a workbook that we would mail to you, and now the program is in a course platform that actually comes on an app, and it’s attached to a community, and it’s the cleanest, simplest way to consume the Academy we've ever had. But then you still get a journal that we mail to you so that you can have that hard copy to take with you, and you can use that “All About Me” section as you go through the self-discovery—I'm getting ahead of myself there, but… So that’s what Tracy’s doing for us—directing the Academy—and Lindsay’s mentoring for us, helping build and run workshops. And we’re really excited for the two projects coming up in the new year: we’ll finish building out a mentor training program, which first will be available internally for our students to take so they can turn around and mentor in the Academy. Then we hope at some point to offer it to other people who would like to learn how to mentor better. We all have a lot of experience with that, so we’re excited to offer that for women and mothers who would like to improve their skill set there. And as Tracy mentioned, we'll be offering Level Three next year. We did two pilots of it, but it's never officially been done, and so it’ll be done officially for all of you who have been waiting for that. All right, so let’s just talk logistically for a minute about some of the changes and improvements to—well, let's start with the basics. For those who aren’t really familiar with how the Academy works, let’s just give a basic overview. If somebody wants to walk us through the basic structure… Tracy, would you mind doing that for us? Sure. Do you mean in Kajabi or the whole… just how it works? Just like, if you're not familiar with the Academy—how does it work?   Okay. So the Academy is built off of Audrey's book, The Seven Laws of Life Mission. And in her book she outlines the first law, which is love God and love self, and then love truth, and then love humanity. And the Academy is built to help moms get their education in the first four laws of life mission. So Level One is love God and yourself. Level Two is love truth, and Level Three is love humanity. And so how it works is: you sign up and you start with Level One, and you go through the course material in Kajabi. We have a community that's attached to that where we hope to help you find an accountability partner or accountability group that you can discuss with regularly—keeping each other moving through the Academy so that you do get this rich education and finish. We also have mentored workshops that are built into your journey through the Academy, through Level One, where you will prepare certain sections and then come to the workshop prepared. We want it to be a time where you discuss and get to articulate the things that you're learning, and we as mentors want to do as little talking as possible because we want this to be a time for you to really bring to the table what you've been learning and have that discussion opportunity. And so we hope it to be an experience like that—something you come prepared to. But then we also have bonus workshops as well to help with sticking points, like study skills and writing a mission statement. And then we also have bonus experiences where Audrey will come, and it will be a live meetup with Audrey where she'll introduce a topic of her choice and then take a question-and-answer session. And then as well, we are available as mentors to answer any of your questions in the community feed. For Level Two it's just the same process, but it's with love truth. And so you'll learn to articulate principles—specifically thinking in an orderly way, thinking in first principles and applications—which will really give you flight in your ability to discern and to lead yourself, your community, and your family. And then in Level Three, which we still need to build out, that's love humanity. So it's worldviews and also servant leadership. You'll learn details about the major religions and also other secular worldviews. And you'll also learn public speaking and how to help people but not hinder them—how to be a multiplier, not a diminisher—and just learn leadership principles. And so yeah, we're excited to offer that to you. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you, Tracy. Going back to the big picture, I guess with all of that in mind, a couple things I'll add. We always had—for those of you who are thinking about getting involved or have been involved—the curriculum, the concepts and principles that we learn, and the books that we run through have not really changed much. It still is all that same great stuff. Level One is a really heavy focus on loving God and loving yourself, and what does that mean, and why does that matter? And how are those core relationships the foundation for all your other relationships? And how getting those right is so vital to enabling you to correct and lift the other relationships in your life. And loving yourself encompasses proper self-care and proper self-leadership and proper self-discovery. When you combine those three things—which I talk about in the book under the second law—you really start to have… in fact, there are so many testimonials. You can go to the website and see a lot of them. You can go to the YouTube channel and see a lot of testimonials. But Lindsay and Tracy, just tell those who might be listening and curious: what are some of the outcomes that you've seen with Level One in particular, and then with just the Academy in general, for yourselves and for other women you've worked with? So I really… I love all of it, but the self-discovery sections—learning about what my strengths are, focusing on strengths instead of focusing on weaknesses—has changed a lot of things. But realizing what are the things that I'm good at, and then developing those… I think it was through the self-discovery sections that I came to realize that I've always wanted to be a teacher. And so now I just take every opportunity I can to teach and to become better at teaching. It's something that gives my life so much meaning and purpose, and it's so satisfying. And that was an insight that I had going through the self-discovery sections, and then to see how all of my other strengths and intelligences work in tandem with that. So that was really powerful. And then for me, the other concept was just that we have needs and we're responsible to meet them. Just knowing that I have physical and spiritual and mental and emotional needs has centered me so that I can do the things that I want to do. I have the energy that I need to do the things that I want to do. So that was powerful too. Yeah. Yeah. Any thoughts around some of the results you've seen for yourself or others, Tracy? Yeah, for me, I think the victim mode that I didn't realize I was in was huge for me to learn about in Level One. And when I read about the victim cycle, or the victim triangle, I thought, “I'm not in that.” Like almost 90% of my thoughts… wow, that's like a personal tendency, I think. Yeah. And so that was really helpful for me, and I still have to continue to help myself—remind myself—to be in creator mode. Yeah. But I think the way the Academy is structured was so easy to bring my husband along. He didn't read all the readings, but we talked about a lot of the things. And then just my children over the dinner table… One of my children did go through the whole Academy book by book and did everything. But with the rest, I tried to do it with my boys, and we were on our own—we didn't have a group. And so I just talked about it at dinner. And I talked about it in our meetings that we would have together—just the principles I was learning. And I had a son who went abroad to serve a mission for our church, and he wanted a refresher on a lot of those things that we learned, because he knew to survive that he needed some of those principles. And so it's been incredible to see my children go into their adult life well-equipped to know how to handle themselves and how to handle relationships. And also, like Lindsay was saying with self-discovery, I can help them find… it's been a wonderful skill to be able to help them find their sweet spots and to guide them—and to let go of some of my preconceived ideas of what I thought they should be doing, but to really look at what they love to do and to go off of that as a springboard. So it's just helped me be a greater, more effective mom. And, as Lindsay was saying for her, it stabilized her, and it did that for me as well. But it also stabilized my family, I feel like, and I think it will reverberate through the generations, and I'm really excited about that. And so I'm just excited to infuse that into other families, and it will be a whole movement. And I have to say, with Lindsay finding her sweet spot with teaching, she really is an excellent mentor. And I think the whole program’s worth it if you can just have Lindsay as your mentor—she really is amazing. You've really found a gem. And I'm really excited to have her mentoring with us. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks, Tracy, but it's… you know, it would be so fantastic if this was the kind of education everybody was getting. And we're just not. And so we needed this opportunity to learn these truths. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And when I first found classical liberal education, the transformation that I had for me, and then being turned on to principles… and it was so funny because, you know, I'm there and I'm reading the classics, and I'm in Locke, and he's talking about the natural law. I'm like, “What is this? This is so amazing.” And I was learning all these things. But as time went by, I remember going to… I spoke at a conference that was based on all of this—and it was classical liberal arts and all of that—and attending some of the speeches and talking to some of the presenters and things… Even in that environment, I felt—even back then—concerned that there wasn't enough emphasis on principles, and that we were still thinking in terms of applications. And so just feeling like this drive—I don't know why I care so much about it, but just this… we've got to figure out how to make this accessible to more people. You know, I would go and read Susan Wise Bauer, Mortimer Adler—and they're brilliant and they're geniuses—but they would talk about this type of education and they would say, “Okay, so what you need to do is read the book three times, and the first time through do this, and the second time through…” And every time I engaged with one of these brilliant people who understood the value of this type of education and wanted to promote it, I just was like, “Moms aren’t going to do that.” They're just not going to do that. They need it vetted down. They need the best stuff as quickly as they can get it. They need a shortcut. They need to be able to get to the best information and have the principles laid out for them, and they need community. Women need each other. They need safe, vulnerable spaces where they can talk honestly about what their roadblocks are. They need support and accountability. They need to lift each other. And so that's what we've been working on creating. Some cool inclusions now that didn't used to exist—we used to get on Zoom and that kind of thing. In the community, it's everything for us. So you go into the community and it's as robust as Facebook or any other platform. You can post videos or articles or images. You can share all the types of things that you would want to share on a social platform. And it's really robust and interactive. You can DM anybody in the community that you want to—and that's one of the things Tracy was talking about. You have access to the mentors anytime you need them for that kind of thing. And then there are these workshops that happen regularly. You show up—it's right there inside the community—and you just follow the link, and it's just like a Zoom experience. And we go into breakout rooms, and we can share our screens, and we can get in and use all the different technologies that are available. And every time we post one, it automatically sends you an email. So you always know what's going on.   And then we've added an extra layer that actually isn't in the platform itself. We have layered this onto it, and it's our directory. So you can actually go into the members area and see where everybody lives on a big map, and you have access to the emails and the names of women in the Academy. Just to keep their locations safe, it only has their city, so you can't track them down—it's not dangerous—but you have to be in the Academy to get access to that directory. And you can email somebody and get to know them, you can get on Zoom with them, and, like Tracy was saying, we work hard to help you find someone who can be your accountability person, who can be your friend, who can walk this journey with you in an even more intimate way. But as mentors, we're there as often as you need us, as much as you need us. And you get some goodies when you sign up—a book bag, bookmarks, we send you The Mission Driven Life book, a journal, some fun things like that. But it's kind of… we keep calling it MDM 2.0 because it's just that much better, having taken everything that we learned before. And we watched hundreds and hundreds of women's lives be transformed through this content. You know, marriages were healed, and women felt like they were settled into this deep level of self-acceptance, and that they had control over themselves, and their families, like Tracy was saying, were lifted. And this self-discovery and understanding the culture and the ability to discern… we have a group chat of some women who are graduates, and just this week they were texting each other, “Well, what's the actionable principle for this, that, and the other?” And I was just blown away at their ability to take what we've provided and to build on it and use it out in the real world, and use it to improve themselves and their family ongoing for the rest of their lives and beyond. So that's really fun. And, of course—and I’ve mentioned this on the podcast before—we have graduates that are doing lots and lots of amazing things out in the world, trying to make the world a better place. And we want to better support them. We want to be there for them. And there are lots of other exciting things that we could mention that are coming. I have not announced this or sent any emails out about it, but the celebration is back next year. It's Mothers of Creation. And so if you want to join us, you can go to the website, to the conference page, and sign up to be there with us live, in person, in Provo, Utah. We will probably add another location as time moves on, but for now, that's where we are next fall. But for those of you who have lifetime access—if there's an even funner offer, I guess—we would invite any and everyone who wants to hop on this train with us, who wants to be on a mission-driven journey with us. We welcome you. We would love to have you in the Academy. For those of you who already have lifetime access to Levels One or Two, you may not know that you can hop back into the community and take advantage of the workshops that we're building out. They're quite robust, they're well thought through, and Tracy—bless her—has actually gone through the content and built out a structure where you know exactly what you need to do to prepare for those workshops. And we can make you the promise that in 30 minutes a day you will be ready for those workshops, and you will get through the material in nine months. And if you didn't finish the level that you were in, or you had a good experience and you want to go through it again, or you want to move on, or whatever the case might be, you can have access to that community—the workshops, the mentoring, the directory, all of that good stuff—for just a small monthly fee. So just go to The Mission Driven Mom login. Go to the end of the course that you have access to—at the end of Level One, for example, it'll say “Continue Your Journey.” And that's right—you can sign up for Level Two right there, but you can also sign up (cancel anytime). You can sign up to join us in the Academy on a monthly basis. Just pay monthly until you feel done, and then move on to the next level of the Academy. So that's also something that we want to offer those who miss being part of the Academy and want to rejoin us. Again, we'd love to see your beautiful faces back in the Academy with us. Is there anything else that—Lindsay or Tracy—you'd like to add? What are you excited for in this coming year? I guess we can end on that question. I'm excited for the workshops. Oh—go ahead, sorry, Tracy. Oh, it's okay, I'll be short. Something that I'd like to add is: this really is the education I wanted when I talked with Audrey years ago. We were at a retreat and happened to meet each other. She asked if I wanted a degree. I said, “Not really. I just want to be able to think better and manage myself better.” And I couldn't be more pleased with what Audrey has created and what Lindsay and I and Julie Greenman have helped Audrey create. It really is just the shot in the arm—what moms need—and in the minimal amount of time, because time is so precious for moms. But it really is the foundational education that will just propel you into years of enriched living. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you, Tracy. So I totally agree with that. I'm just excited for these opportunities in the workshops and in the events to meet each other, to form those relationships. The workshops are not intended to take the place of your accountability partners or your accountability groups—they're meant to add an additional resource, an additional refinement to the things that you're learning so that we can truly become mission-driven moms and influence the culture for good. I think the workshops are a big part of being able to do that. Yeah. A hundred percent. If you have not read the book The Mission-Driven Life, you can also go to themissiondrivenmom.com and get three chapters for free, and you can grab a hard copy of the book if you're so inclined. We would love for you to learn more about who we are and what we're doing. We really do—we're going to do everything we possibly can to educate as many women as we can, thousands of women, and help empower them to lift our culture, because it needs to be renewed with virtue. It needs to be reinfused with the principles that founded this nation. And we need mothers who can discern, who can live out and teach truth, and lift our culture with us, hand in hand. If you're not on our email list, go get on it. There’s a lot of—I didn't want to tell you all the exciting things we have scheduled for this coming year, but lots of super exciting things scheduled. So we'll stay in touch. We'll let you know about all those things. But in the meantime, this is a perfect time to come back as we re-infuse the Academy with these beautiful workshops that are being built out. We're ready for you. We would love to see you again in the Academy. Whether you're new or coming back, we are excited to spend time with you again and to lift each other and move forward in lifting the culture. So thanks for joining us today, and we will see you next time.  

Get Your FREE Chapters in Audio format from The Mission Driven Life: Discover and Fulfill Your Unique Contribution to the World: https://www.themissiondrivenmom.com/ Why did school feel boring or pointless? …because you were robbed of a true liberal arts education—learning that forms free people. We decode what “liberal” really means, chart how American education drifted into vocational training, and show how to revive the Great Books, the Socratic method, commonplacing, oral exams, and meaningful leisure. Drawing on Hayek and Mortimer Adler, it shows how this tradition was lost—and how reclaiming it can transform your thinking, purpose, and lifelong learning. __________________ Transcript (AI generated) There is a reason why you were probably dissatisfied with your education—why you felt frustrated and unfulfilled, why you couldn’t find the meaning or purpose behind much of it. Why you felt bored, why you felt unfulfilled, why it felt brainless or pointless or full of frustration.   If you’re like me, when you were in school, you probably had some thoughts like: “This is really dumb,” or “This is really boring,” or “Why do we have to be at school so long?” or “What is it that we’re even doing? What’s the point of all this?” I don’t know if you ever thought deeply about it, but I remember a consistent sense of dissatisfaction. It grew as I got older—especially in high school—until I finally thought, “Okay, well, high school education isn’t all that great.” I mean, there were some classes, like my psychology class—it was so easy. Everything was straight out of the book. I think it was the gym teacher who taught us, and as long as I memorized some answers… that was back in the Scantron days, where we’d just fill in the bubbles and they’d run it through the machine. I would get out early basically every time we had a test in psychology. Or there were times when you’d pour your heart into a paper or project and still get a bad grade because you didn’t check certain specific boxes with your formatting, or your teacher didn’t like how you phrased something, or whatever. It was just not a great experience on a lot of levels. I was always waiting for it to get better and better.   And I’m here to tell you: there’s a reason why you were probably dissatisfied with your education—why you felt frustrated and unfulfilled, why you couldn’t find meaning and purpose behind a lot of it, why you felt bored or unchallenged, why it all felt brainless or pointless. It’s because you were not given a liberal arts education. That’s the type of education that existed in Western civilization for over a thousand years. This was how education was done for a very long time.  When I tell people that I have a liberal arts education, they usually have no idea what I’m talking about, because those terms have been hijacked. I’m going to explain that to you in a minute—what this really means, how education used to be, and how you were genuinely robbed by people who decided a hundred, hundred-twenty years ago that you weren’t smart enough to get the kind of education people had been receiving for hundreds of years. They said all that information was just “unimportant dead white men” that you couldn’t learn anything from. That is so arrogant—because this is the very foundation we stand on.  Anyway—obviously, I have feelings about this—but when I tell people I have a liberal arts education, they usually think it means something like being an artist, or doing something in the arts. They don’t even understand what these terms mean. So, I’m going to break this down and give you a brief introduction to what this is—and what has been taken from you.   Because I’m passionate about learning, lifelong learning, and becoming better—about living the 7 Laws of Life Mission that I talk about in my book—we’re going to keep talking about this. I’ll keep putting out information about the history of American and Western education so you can understand how we got from there to here. But for today, I just want to give you the basics of what this means.  The word liberal—as in liberal arts—comes from the Latin root liber, which means “free.” It’s also the root of liberty and libro (which means “book” in Spanish). So, there’s this connection between being educated and being free. It was the educated classes who were free, and you received an education to be a free person. That’s what it was about. Now, this might surprise you.  In today’s culture, the word liberal is often associated with people on the political left—Democrats, progressives, whatever—and so in conservative circles, “liberal” has taken on a negative connotation. Liberals are seen as more open or generous or kind, and so on.   But liberalism is actually a Western cultural philosophy. Let me read a little about it: “It’s a political and moral philosophy based on the rights of the individual—liberty, consent of the governed, political equality, equality before the law, private property, market economics, individual rights, civil rights, and human rights.”  We actually have liberalism to thank for our freedom and our ideas about human rights. It sought to establish a constitutional order—meaning that those in power (the king, aristocracy, or any tyranny) were subject to the law, and that there was a natural law above all mankind. We derive those rights from God, not from government. And government must submit to its own laws. That’s a liberal idea.  It prized individual freedoms such as freedom of speech, freedom of association, independent juries, public trials by jury, and the abolition of aristocratic privilege. The fundamental elements of modern Western society all have liberal roots. So what is this “liberal” that some people identify as—what does it really mean? It’s actually social liberalism. In Europe and North America, “social liberalism,” often just called “liberalism,” became a key component in expanding the welfare state. That’s why the word was hijacked.  Now, F.A. Hayek—an incredible thinker who wrote The Road to Serfdom and won the Nobel Prize—wrote about this back in 1944. He said the word liberal was already being hijacked in America even then. In the preface of his book, he wrote: “Throughout this book, I use the term liberal in the original nineteenth-century sense in which it is still current in Britain. Its current usage in America often means nearly the opposite of this. It has been part of the camouflage of the leftist movements in that country—helped by the muddle-headedness of many who really do believe in liberty—that liberal has come to mean the advocacy of almost every kind of government control.” So this word was stolen—from a form of education that had, for centuries, enabled people to gather, organize, and learn from the great thinkers—mostly men, but some women—throughout Western history. That’s the foundation we stand on in the West, and especially in America. This is a liberal country, built on the principles of liberty.   Hayek goes on: “I am still puzzled why those in the United States who truly believe in liberty should not only have allowed the left to appropriate this almost indispensable term, but even should have assisted by beginning to use it themselves as a term of opprobrium.” So he’s saying that people started using it negatively—even though it defines the very civilization and nation we aspire to be.  Mortimer Adler said, “The chief difference between ourselves and our ancestors is that they, for the most part, talked sense about liberal education, whereas we, for the most part, do not.” That’s fascinating—that a word and an idea so foundational to our civilization could be so misunderstood today.  If you read American Higher Education: A History by Christopher Lucas (which is really good), and look up “liberal learning” in the index, you’ll see row after row of citations. That’s how predominant liberal learning was in America—until recently.  This is what you’ve been robbed of: liberal learning for the sake of learning itself—learning to be free—the education of a free people.  That’s very different from vocational learning, which is learning for the sake of earning. Those are the two kinds of learning.  What we’ve done is take a liberal foundation and replace it with vocational learning—through apprenticeships, trade schools, and job training. But originally, everyone received a liberal education so they could be free.  After the American Revolution, as the founders built the nation, they said, “Now we need an education system to match our form of government.” They knew people needed to understand what creates freedom in order to stay free—to preserve a free nation and a free people.  That’s why they valued a liberal education: it teaches people how to be free. Adler said, “For anyone to become an educated person, it is necessary for his or her learning to continue throughout the lifetime that follows graduation from college or university. The most crucial contribution these institutions can make is in the field of the arts—the liberal arts—which are the arts of learning, and the arts which discipline our creative powers.” He also said, “Education frees our minds by disciplining them.” Our education is supposed to discipline our minds—to help us find, hold to, and adhere to truth.  Mortimer Adler (I’ll talk about him more in another video on The Great Books and how we lost liberal learning in America) was one of the key figures who tried to preserve liberal education in the United States. He often argued that the best education happens in adulthood—and he was right. Because it’s only as adults, with real-life experience, that our education takes on its deepest meaning.  I could read Anna Karenina in college, but ten or fifteen years later—after I’d had a troubled marriage myself and been through much more life—Anna Karenina means a whole lot more to me. Right? So, we need the tools for lifelong learning, and that’s what liberal education was giving people. There was a very specific way this was done, so let me explain it quickly so you understand what the “liberal” part is—and what the “arts” part means. Liberal Arts are not Fine Arts, and they’re not Vocational Arts. They’re not arts for the sake of earning, and they’re not fine arts for the sake of beautifying. They’re the liberal arts—for the sake of being free, for disciplining the mind, for learning how to use our intellectual and rational powers to their fullest. The fine arts are totally “useless,” and that is their glory—because the fine arts are meant to move the heart and to move the culture toward beauty and goodness.  The liberal arts, on the other hand, are useful. They consist of the Trivium and the Quadrivium, which in their modern forms include reading, writing, speaking, listening, and all the mathematical and scientific disciplines.  So, this hangover that we have in our schools—where those are still our focus—is a remnant of the liberal arts. We’re still trying to do the liberal arts, but we’re doing it without the same medium or methods used in the past. We’re doing it in a textbook model—which doesn’t work—and we’re doing it without the full toolset for liberal learning.  We still teach that people need to write, read, and calculate, but we’re not bringing it home. The liberal arts are meant to help us live a robust life of truth—to be the search for truth itself. That’s why Harvard’s motto was Veritas—“truth.” These colleges and universities were founded upon the liberal arts: the pursuit of truth, living the good life, and seeking real happiness in harmony with God’s natural laws.  The fine arts were meant for those who would go on to create works that inspire humanity. The liberal arts were meant for everyone—so that they could perpetuate a free society. The vocational arts were training for earning a living in a particular trade or profession. Today, we have remnants of what liberal education was meant to be. Sometimes we call it “the humanities” or “general education,” but at the college level it’s often turned into social indoctrination. It’s money-driven now, because these are no longer private schools making independent decisions—they depend on government funding. The government dictates what’s taught, and that independence is gone. The priority to help us be a free people has disappeared. I could give you all kinds of examples from American and Western history that you’ve never heard—because they’re not taught in school anymore.  Here’s how it used to be done—it was very simple. You would choose a text of broad and deep significance, what we call a great book. That’s where the Great Books of the Western World and the Harvard Classics came from. These are books that have stood the test of time—books that have spoken to people across generations, cultures, and circumstances.  But in our modern, technological society, we’ve begun to think we can leave those behind. I’ll tell you—authors like Plato and Aristotle, whom I’ve studied, are completely relevant today. The things they discuss are the very things on my mind now. The way they reason and write—it’s often over my head. It’s hard for me to understand, even in modern English translations. I’m limping along to really grasp it. But I love this quote by Mortimer Adler, one of my favorites: “Whoever passes by what is over his head condemns his head to its present low altitude, for nothing can elevate a mind except what is over the head.” They chose deep, rich works.  I did another video on the five types of questions, and I talked about St. Thomas Aquinas’s Treatise on the Passions. That’s the kind of reading we’re talking about. We all have passions, right? He explained that the passions follow a certain order, and he explored how they work. That’s exactly what you and I think about today: What are my emotions? How do they work? How much should I listen to them? These are timeless questions. They’re relevant, important, lasting, and world-changing. We need to understand what these thinkers said—why their ideas had such impact and how they changed the world.  So, they would choose a truly rich text—often in the original language. These men (and sometimes women) would learn Latin and Greek. Then they’d study those works in small sections, reading and writing in a commonplace book. Books were rare and expensive, so you didn’t write in them. You’d copy long passages into your commonplace book—your favorite quotes, insights, questions, and reflections. That’s how you internalized what you read. Then you’d meet in a small group, or “pod,” with a tutor or mentor. You’d discuss what you’d read. The tutor would question you deeply, guiding you with thoughtful questions. If you want a better picture of what this looks like, go watch that video on the five types of questions—I share an example from one of Mortimer Adler’s classes. Those discussions were powerful. That’s why book groups were so popular in early America. Benjamin Franklin, in his Autobiography, describes how he started the first public library and made book clubs fashionable. It elevated the educational level of that generation and those that followed.  Eventually, when you were ready, you’d have an oral exam. That’s how they knew you’d truly absorbed what you studied—when it had become a part of who you were. You could articulate it clearly, discuss it thoughtfully, and apply it wisely. You gained skills of discussion, negotiation, reasoning, and the search for truth—honed and refined over years of dialogue with your peers and tutors. The last part of a liberal arts education was about the use of free time—what was called leisure. Mortimer Adler argued that you can tell the quality of a person’s education by how they choose to spend their leisure time. Do they play instruments? Do they get involved in their community? Do they serve in government? Do they volunteer? Do they practice the fine arts? Do they build strong relationships? Do they read great books? Do they find ways to elevate themselves and those around them? The quality of that leisure time is the mark of a truly educated person. Someone with a real liberal education will always use their free time for the most enriching things.   Adler said, “A good human life is one that is enriched by as much leisure as one can cram into it.” So, you’re always finding ways to elevate yourself as a human being—and to elevate humanity—through what you do when you don’t have to work. If you were dissatisfied like I was—if you felt frustrated with the kind of education you received, or sensed something was missing—you were right.  You were robbed.  Over the last century and a half, bits and pieces of this education were eroded away until now. You can expect low-quality textbooks, many steps removed from original sources. You can expect not to engage with great minds or great ideas. You can expect not to hear about the pivotal moments of Western history.  You can expect to write papers for a professor instead of for yourself—to aim for “the right answers” instead of deep understanding. You can expect to stay stuck at the level of knowledge questions, instead of seeking meaning, truth, and personal application. So I hope that clears up what you’ve been robbed of—and helps you understand that a liberal arts education is the education we all need to become the best human beings we can possibly be.  I spent fifteen or sixteen years in structured, formal, traditional public education. Later on, I discovered liberal education—and it absolutely changed me as a person. It changed the way I live, the way I think, the way I use my leisure time, the way I teach, and the values I hold most dear. It’s the great minds I’ve interacted with and the tools for lifelong learning that have completely transformed my life.  If that’s something you want more of, we do learn these skills—we do engage with great minds and study the classics and great books—at The Mission Driven Mom, through the MDM Academy. Check that out, and tell me in the comments below about your experience with school—what you wish you’d had, and what you feel you missed out on. If this message was helpful for you today, please pass it on. Go ahead and subscribe and leave a review—that really helps us grow and reach other moms who we might be able to serve. Thank you so much for joining me today, and I’ll see you next time.    

Get Your FREE Chapters in Audio format from The Mission Driven Life: Discover and Fulfill Your Unique Contribution to the World: https://www.themissiondrivenmom.com/ In this heartfelt episode, Audrey shares a powerful reflection on rediscovering purpose and reigniting passion as a mother and mission-driven woman. After hitting a personal “wall” while relaunching The Mission Driven Mom, she realized that clarity of purpose—knowing her why—was the missing ingredient. Through honest journaling, prayer, and reflection, Audrey reconnected with her deeper motivations, finding renewed excitement for her work and calling. She invites listeners—especially mothers who feel unfulfilled or weary—to pause, reflect, and ask themselves: “Why am I a mom? Why did I choose this life? Where do I want to take my family?” By rediscovering their “why,” moms can reclaim gratitude, purpose, and joy in their daily lives, and begin shaping the kind of family and legacy they truly desire. _______________________ Transcript (AI generated)  Welcome back to the podcast. I'm so excited that you have joined me. When I was at the James Lindsay event—who I recently interviewed—there was an app we could use at the event to connect with other people attending. You filled it out and told a little about yourself, so I decided to do it. I put some information in there, including a link to The Mission Driven Mom website. About halfway through the event, I got a message on the app from someone who was in attendance. He said, “Do not leave before I talk to you.” Near the end, we finally connected, and he took me out into the hall. He said, “I have combed over your website, and you have perfectly described my wife. I’m a young attorney. I have a wife, and I can’t remember if he said two or three young children. We have arranged our lives so that my wife could be home with the children—that’s what we both wanted. And yet here we are, a few years in, and she is so unhappy. She’s struggling to get out of bed in the morning. She’s struggling to find joy in the day-to-day activities of mothering these small children, and I’m really, really worried about her.” It reminded me of something one of our students said about her experience before she joined the Academy. She said, “I felt there was something missing. I kind of felt like I needed a little something more. I had a good marriage, cute kids, but I wasn’t feeling happy, and I didn’t know why. I knew I had every reason to be happy, but I felt there was something I needed to change—and I didn’t know what, or where to start, or what was wrong.” So if you feel like these women did—if you are struggling to make it through your days with optimism, hope, and excitement; if you are feeling the drudgery that can sometimes come with lots of demands on your time and energy—and if you’ve been at this for a while and you’re starting to feel discouraged or lost, or if you feel like you have what you need to be happy and should be happy but you’re not—and you just can’t figure out why— I want to tell you what happened to me recently and give you a tip—something that you can do that I think might turn things around for you. Before I do that, I want to welcome you to the podcast and let you know that I’m the author of The Mission-Driven Life: Discover and Fulfill Your Unique Contribution to the World. If you head over to themissiondrivenmom.com, you can grab the first three chapters of that book for free. I’d love to give those to you so you can learn all about the Seven Laws of Life Mission that we take moms through to help them overcome this drudgery and unhappiness—to rise above their circumstances, to ground their lives in truth, and to begin having influence in their communities. It’s a beautiful process. So thank you for joining me today. Also, if you’re brand new to the podcast, you may want to go back and start at the beginning and listen to some of those early episodes where I go in-depth about the Seven Laws of Life Mission. You’ll also hear lots of mission-driven stories about great men and women who lived those seven laws, and there are many other podcasts that may interest you. Recently, I hit a wall with The Mission Driven Mom. I hit this wall a few years ago when we slowed things down and I stopped podcasting for a while—we kind of went quiet. But now we’re back, and we’re doing the things. It’s been really exciting as we’ve been relaunching the podcast and the Academy, and we’ve relaunched our yearly in-person event. You can actually sign up for that on the website as well—just click on Conference. This year the theme is Mothers of Creation, so you can head over there and sign up before it fills up. We’re relaunching, right? We’re in this phase, doing this—and I just hit this wall a few weeks ago. As I thought about it, I realized, “Oh, this looks very much like the wall I hit a couple years ago, which caused me to really go quiet and not know how to move forward.” I was frustrated, overwhelmed. I didn’t feel up for the task. I didn’t really know how to proceed. So I paused. I moved everything to a new platform and thought, “Well, I’ll make this program available, and I’ll write books, and we’ll just see what happens,” because I didn’t know how to crack the code on letting more students in. We had a bottleneck with mentors. Our business model wasn’t right. There were lots of problems. So now, as we’re going through this 2.0 launch, everything’s going fine—but new opportunities keep coming, and I’m hesitating. My husband sat me down and said, “Why are you hesitating? We’re all in. We’re doing this. We’ve been putting all this energy in—we’re gaining momentum. Why are you hesitating?” And you know, I felt frustrated. I felt worried. I felt overwhelmed. I felt all those feelings. Then I did something that I’m going to recommend you do—something that has made such a huge difference. This isn’t the only time I’ve done this in my life, but it’s the most recent, and it’s made such a big difference that I really believe it will help you. I decided to pause for a minute and dig deep—do some journaling, do some praying, a lot of pondering. Maybe go back to some of the things I’ve read, definitely spend time in scripture, and just ask myself the question: Why? Why are we coming back to this? Why are we relaunching? Why do I want to do this? Why does it matter? And the secondary question was: Where am I trying to get to? What is my why and what is my what? What is the goal? What is the objective? What does success look like? Where are we headed? At first, it was really exciting to relaunch the Academy—to have women signing up again, coming into the community. We have this better platform, and it’s really exciting. And then we’re doing more things, and more is being asked of me—and more, and more. More responsibility is on my shoulders. And I found that there are things about this new space that feel familiar—and worrisome. So I took time—a couple of weeks. I still did all the things in life that needed doing, but instead of focusing on a bunch of MDM tasks, I just paused to be with myself and with God, and to really explore why this mattered. Because for me, it’s not enough to just... I’m not in this to sell the Academy. If women do the Academy, that’s wonderful—and that’s why I put it on this new platform, so it would be available and anyone could sign up. But that alone doesn’t fill me with passion. It doesn’t light me on fire. One of the things I noticed is that I’ve been interviewed on quite a few podcasts recently. A few of them have been released, more are coming up. The conversations were beautiful and meaningful, and I meant everything I said—obviously, moms need to meet their real needs, love themselves better, discover their gifts, and recognize their God-given mission. All of that is meaningful and beautiful—and the conversations were wonderful—but I recognized they weren’t full of passion. In most instances, I wasn’t on fire. And that meant that the person interviewing me wasn’t on fire either. And I’m just going to be straight with you: I don’t need to be doing this. My kids are about to finish leaving home. I have time and resources. I could do whatever I want for the rest of my life. And I knew that going back in—but I kept needing to evaluate: Why am I hesitating? Why am I not full of passion—excited to be doing this? That doesn’t mean there can’t be stress or some down days and disappointments—it just means that overall, I had to ask: What’s wrong? Where am I trying to get to? What is my end game? And I want to tell you—it was incredible. I dug so deep that I discovered things about myself, about this organization, about where we’re headed, and about why I’m doing it—things I didn’t even know before. As I gained more clarity about what actually changed my life, what I’m truly trying to do for women, and how we as moms are really going to make a difference— I can just feel the passion bubbling up again as I say this. There are a lot of exciting things coming, and I am on fire about what we’re going to be releasing. But with all that being said—what you can do right now, if you’re not feeling it as a mom—if you know you have every reason to be happy, if you live in comfortable circumstances, you’re not starving, you have resources, you can educate yourself, you have beautiful children… Maybe your marriage isn’t perfect, but your husband’s a good guy—and yet you just aren’t feeling excited to be alive each day. You’re not full of passion, and you don’t have clarity. I would invite you to do what I’ve done—this time and many other times in my life—and really start journaling and asking yourself the question: Why am I a mom? Why did I want to become a mom? Why is this the life that I’ve chosen? And where am I trying to take us? What’s the destination I’m trying to reach with this family? I really believe you’ll have some amazing breakthroughs if you just sit with that. Let your beautiful, marvelous mind percolate on it—however many days or weeks it needs. Keep asking God. Keep asking that question as you read scripture, as you go through your day. Maybe talk to your spouse, maybe talk to your friends—but most of all, be with yourself. I was at a marriage retreat, and several good things happened there, but probably the most impactful was when they asked each of us to go off alone—with a pad of paper and a pen—and answer the question: Why do I want to keep living? One of the things we do in The Mission Driven Mom is learn how to get to fundamentals—to get to the first principles, the truths by which we can govern our lives. First principles tell us why—and when we know why, it’s much easier to find the energy, the motivation, and the passion to go discover the how. That’s part of what I needed to do. I have found an even bigger why—something I’m even more excited and passionate about sharing with you—and concrete ways in which I can show my love for the women I serve. It’s so exciting. It’s so rewarding. I’m ready to level up—to go learn principles that I haven’t yet known or haven’t been living in certain areas and facets of this movement. And I can do that because I know why. Because I’ve outlined those first principles and meanings for myself. So if you want more passion around your mothering, then go find out why. Why did you want to become a mother? Go back to those moments when you made those choices—the excitement you felt to have these children—and ask yourself: Where am I trying to get to? And journal, journal, journal—until some things become clear. When we were at that marriage retreat and asked to journal about that question, it was incredible. As we reentered the room, there were these grown men—strong, tough guys—who had been weeping. Because when they thought about why do I want to keep on living, the beauty of the life they were already sitting in became really clear. And you are sitting in the middle of a beautiful life. You are incredibly blessed. There are beautiful reasons why you chose to be a mother. If you can get back to some of those whys, it will start to clear the path for you. If we can be a resource and a help—if this podcast or our Academy can help you on that journey to find the principles that will help you be the mom you want to be and get where you want to go—then I’m grateful. But no matter what you do after you find your why, it’s vital that you dig deep and start asking yourself: Why did I sign up for this? Why am I a mom? Where do I want to take my family? It will reignite your passion. You’ll become far more clear. You’ll be much more grateful. Just sit in it long enough—it will bubble up. God will answer you. Your marvelous mind will come up with clear answers, and you’ll find that you really are grateful to be where you are—grateful for the opportunities that surround you today. And you may feel a little bit worried or overwhelmed about where you want to go—but there are answers when you have that why. When we’re clear about first principles, it’s so much easier to go out, search for those principles, practice living them, and use them as the gateway to develop the kind of family and life we can be proud of. So that’s my challenge to you: Think about why you’re a mom and what success looks like for you. Journal about it. And if you’re so inclined, share your thoughts below if you’re on YouTube, or send us a message. I would love to hear why you’re a mom and where you’re trying to get to. I would love to know why this is the life you’ve chosen and what beautiful things you’ve discovered about it. Because we’re in this together. We’re going to uplevel ourselves—and by doing so, uplevel our homes and our communities. It’s a beautiful journey that we’re on together. So thank you for joining me today. Please take the time to journal about those questions and share your answers with me. I would love to hear more about that. And if this message was helpful for you today, please pass it on—go ahead and subscribe and leave a review. That really helps us grow and get the word out to other moms we may be able to serve. Thank you so much for joining me today, and I will see you next time.

Get Your FREE Audiobook Chapters from The Mission Driven Life: Discover and Fulfill Your Unique Contribution to the World: https://www.themissiondrivenmom.com/. Want to get at the meat of what's wrong with the trans movement? In this episode Audrey outlines her 5 biggest takeaways from her extensive research into the trans movement and her study of the controversial book Irreversible Damage: The Transgender Craze Seducing Our Daughters by Abigail Shrier.  If this craze has boggled, confused, or upset you, listen in for a synopsis of the biggest issues around this cultural trouble and how to look at it with more clarity.  _____________________________ PODCAST TRANSCRIPT (AI Generated)  Years ago, at my organization The Mission Driven Mom, I was running a leadership retreat and decided to do a presentation on the sexual revolution in the United States. I had already done quite a bit of research, but I dug even deeper before the retreat. When I presented all this information to the women there, I was honestly shocked — almost everything I shared was completely new to them. Some of the things they had never heard before, and most of it they knew little to nothing about. That experience really opened my eyes to a serious problem in our culture. We live in what’s called the information age — which would make you think we all have access to high-quality knowledge about all sorts of topics. But that’s actually not the case. There’s a tremendous amount of misinformation out there, and it’s difficult to sift through the noise and find reliable sources. Because of that, I’ve spent years reading some of the best books and research available on issues that are affecting our culture — topics that seem to have gone completely off the rails. The transgender movement is one of those. So I picked up Abigail Shrier’s book Irreversible Damage: The Transgender Craze Seducing Our Daughters. I wanted to understand why there’s been such a sudden surge — this flood of young girls seeking testosterone, top surgery, and beyond. We know the numbers are climbing at a shocking rate. Historically, we actually have very good data — at least a hundred years’ worth — on gender dysphoria. For most of that time, over 90% of those who experienced it were male. It usually appeared in early childhood, and in the vast majority of cases, the feelings resolved naturally by early adulthood. Of those who continued to experience it, many became homosexual men, and a small percentage transitioned — what used to be called “transsexuals.” But even among that older generation, they never believed they could literally become the opposite sex. When you talk to trans individuals from those earlier decades, they often describe simply feeling more comfortable presenting as the opposite gender. Some had surgeries to help them do that, but they didn’t claim that changing clothes or undergoing surgery actually made them women. So for a century, this pattern held steady — until around 2006. That’s when things began to flip. There are reasons for that, rooted in the broader history of sexual identity movements in the West, but 2006 marks a turning point. The number of girls identifying as the opposite gender — and seeking hormones or surgeries — began to rise dramatically. By 2016, Shrier reports that natal females made up 46% of all gender reassignment surgeries in the United States. Just one year later, that number jumped to 70%, and it has continued to climb since then. Now, one reason we struggle to understand what’s happening — even in the so-called information age — is that we don’t always do our homework. On this channel, I try to share tools and strategies for how to research well and think critically about the sources we use. Another reason is that many people simply don’t know where to look or who to trust. Lots of experts have impressive credentials or bios, and it’s easy to assume that means they’re reliable. But in reality, good information is often hidden, misrepresented, or outright suppressed.   In Irreversible Damage, Abigail Shrier shares an interesting example. In November 2020, after the book had been selling well for about four months, a Twitter user posted this message: “@AskTarget, why are you selling a book notorious for its harmful rhetoric against us? Historically, harmful products have been pulled from your shelves — and this should be too.” And that was all it took. Based on the complaints of just two Twitter users, the book was pulled from Target.com. It was banned and protested in other places as well. There are also numerous YouTube videos denouncing it as “transphobic.” So, I thought today we could spend a few minutes on this topic, and I’d share my five big takeaways from the book. I’ve got to say right from the outset — I didn’t see a lot of transphobia in it. In fact, one thing that made reading it especially interesting was that I went through it with a book club. One of the women in our group identifies as quite a bit more liberal and left-leaning than the rest of us. She’s very supportive of LGBTQ+ causes, and she was nervous about reading the book. Her circles had warned her that it was going to be transphobic and problematic. And yes — there are moments when Shrier uses a bit of tongue-in-cheek or sarcastic humor that can come across as a little distasteful. But beyond that, even this woman in our group ended up really enjoying the book. She saw the value in what Shrier was saying, and it led to some great conversations about what we can do — both individually and as a society — in response to this transgender craze. Shrier makes a striking point in the book: “A remarkable thing about the continuous campaign against Irreversible Damage is that it came amid additional confirmation that the book’s claims were true.” And that’s exactly what we’ve seen. The book is only two or three years old, but time has already proven many of her concerns to be valid. We’re now seeing several countries passing legislation to restrict certain practices or to slow them down. And while the transgender movement is still growing — and the majority of mainstream voices continue to promote it — evidence keeps emerging that supports what Shrier argued. Her main claim is this: the sudden rush of girls seeking hormones and transgender surgeries — what’s being called “rapid-onset gender dysphoria” — is not actually gender dysphoria in the traditional sense. It’s a craze, a social contagion, and rushing these girls into medical transition is not in their best interest. So, in light of all that, my first big takeaway from the book is this: 👉 We can only fight with truth. Right now, we simply don’t know the full truth about the transgender craze. We don’t have enough solid, unbiased information — and it would really benefit us to read books like this one. I have a couple of other books on the topic sitting on my shelf, and I’ve watched dozens of detransition videos and interviews with experts in this field. And I’ve got to say — if you’re only paying attention to surface-level information, the kind that shows up in your social media feed or the headlines — you’ll end up being pro-trans in ways that are actually harmful to young people, especially those under 18. So takeaway number one: we don’t yet have the whole truth, and we can only stand for what’s right if we’re willing to seek it.   As I was watching all of these detransition videos, I started noticing some common themes — and I want to talk about a couple of them. One thing that really stood out to me was this: sometimes, it’s easier to change what’s on the outside than it is to change what’s on the inside. And that’s not unique to the transgender movement — that’s something all of us struggle with in different ways. It’s part of being human. But in these stories — mostly girls transitioning to boys — this theme came up over and over again. Now, Abigail Shrier highlights the same thing in her book, and it matched exactly what I was seeing in these videos. In almost every case, there were preexisting mental health conditions — depression, anxiety, self-harm — and often social struggles as well. Many of these girls were on the autism spectrum or had traits associated with it. So these girls were already struggling. They already felt like outsiders. They already felt broken or “different.” Shrier gives a few statistics about the number who were cutting, the number who were clinically anxious — and the pattern was striking. Here’s what parents consistently reported: their daughter had social struggles and anxiety but no signs of gender dysphoria in childhood. Then she enters high school, makes a group of new friends — and several of those friends come out as transgender. Soon after, she makes the same announcement. And from that point on, her mental health actually worsens. In other cases, it wasn’t the school friends but the online communities influencing them. These girls felt so lonely in real life that they turned to the internet, where they were quickly immersed in circles that reinforced the idea that they must be trans. There are even online quizzes or “tests” where they’re asked questions like, “Have you ever felt uncomfortable in your body?” or “Have you ever struggled to fit in?” And of course, those are universal experiences! Every one of us could say yes to those. But for socially awkward, already hurting girls looking for answers, this becomes a new label that feels like relief — a new identity that promises to fix what’s wrong inside. And again, it’s easier to change the outside than the inside. So my second big takeaway from Shrier’s book is this: 👉 Virtually all of these girls have preexisting mental health challenges and social struggles — and that makes it tempting to focus on outward change instead of inward healing. And in their defense, many of them don’t even know what’s wrong or how to fix it. They just know they’re unhappy, and transitioning looks like a solution. Add to that the fact that there’s a huge amount of social validation that comes with coming out as transgender — especially online. Yes, there’s still bullying in schools. But overall, many of these girls suddenly receive an outpouring of support, encouragement, and praise. They’re told they’re brave and courageous. That kind of affirmation is incredibly powerful for someone who already feels invisible or broken. Now, as I mentioned, I’ve watched a lot of these detransition stories — and everything I saw was echoed in Shrier’s research. It was like reading a well-documented version of what I’d already found on my own. One thing they all talk about is how easy it was to get the medical interventions. In most cases, on their very first visit to Planned Parenthood, they were prescribed testosterone. One girl said she even asked for the maximum dose — and they gave it to her right away. It’s not just Planned Parenthood. Many psychologists and psychiatrists now approve medical interventions after a single visit. Parents of younger children are often told that if they don’t affirm their child’s new identity, the child will commit suicide. Puberty blockers are offered extremely early in the process. This whole mindset is called affirmative care — the idea that if someone says they are something, you simply affirm it as truth. But if you stop to think about that for even a minute, it doesn’t line up with how we treat any other medical or psychological condition. In every other area, there’s testing, diagnosis, and careful consideration before prescribing serious medication or recommending surgery. I remember watching a Jordan Peterson interview where they were analyzing the case of Chloe Cole — a detransitioned young woman I actually met a few weeks ago at the Capitol in Austin. Peterson said, from a professional standpoint, that before such a life-altering decision, a person should have at least a year of weekly or biweekly therapy sessions to truly unpack what’s going on. Of course, that didn’t happen for Chloe — and it doesn’t happen for most of these girls. In any other situation — whether we’re talking about cancer or bipolar disorder — we would never give medication or perform major interventions without solid evidence and diagnosis. Yet, in this space, we’re skipping all those steps and making irreversible changes based solely on self-identification. And that’s deeply concerning.   Building on everything we’ve talked about, it actually gets even worse — because not only is the affirmative care model being used, but in most cases, there’s also no real informed consent happening. So many parents have shared that they didn’t understand even the most basic facts — like what puberty blockers actually do. They were told these medications were “safe” or “reversible,” but no one explained that they stop normal puberty and physical maturity, and that this can lead to long-term psychological and physical consequences. Many of these kids end up developing osteoporosis — that’s something most parents never hear about beforehand. They’re also rarely told that puberty blockers can cause permanent sterilization, or that cross-sex hormones can significantly increase the risk of heart disease, cancers, and other serious medical issues. I’ve personally met several of these young people and watched dozens of their stories online. Almost all of them said they never truly understood what they were signing up for. No one explained what these treatments would mean for their fertility, their long-term health, or their ability to experience sexual function later in life. So my third big takeaway from all this research — and from Abigail Shrier’s documentation — is this: 👉 Affirmative care doesn’t work, and there is essentially no informed consent happening in the transgender movement. Now, another thing that really hit home for me while reading Irreversible Damage was just how lonely this generation of teens is. Across the board, people are lonelier than ever before — but Shrier goes into great detail showing how isolated and sheltered today’s teens have become. In the past, teens were often seen as reckless — they’d push boundaries, do things like drink, smoke, sneak out, or drive too fast. And while those behaviors aren’t healthy, they at least represented real-world experiences. Kids were learning through trial and error, interacting face-to-face, and navigating relationships. Today’s teens are missing that. They’re living largely online. They’re anxious about in-person interaction, and many of them are struggling with depression and social anxiety. Instead of developing healthy romantic relationships, many are turning to pornography — which completely distorts their sense of intimacy. And if that’s what intimacy looks like to them — something degrading or violent — then it’s understandable that they would say, “I don’t want any part of that.” So when someone tells them, “Transitioning might sterilize you,” they shrug it off. They don’t care, because their concept of real love and real connection has already been damaged. In fact, some of these girls explicitly say that their desire to transition came after watching disturbing pornography that left them afraid of men and unwilling to ever be intimate with one. Shrier cites some powerful statistics: In 1994, 76% of 17-year-olds had experienced some kind of romantic relationship. By 2014, that number had dropped to 46%. And we’re almost another decade past that — so you can imagine how much lower it is today. So nearly half of our 17-year-olds have never had a real-world romantic relationship. They feel anxious about human interaction, spend up to nine hours a day online, and experience the highest rates of depression, anxiety, suicidality, and loneliness we’ve ever seen. Now, one thing I really appreciated about Shrier’s approach is that she’s not saying these girls aren’t in pain. She’s saying the opposite — that they’re in deep pain. She simply believes — and I agree — that transitioning isn’t the right answer to that pain. Most of these girls will end up regretting these irreversible decisions because they never addressed the real source of their suffering. So my fourth big takeaway is this: 👉 Teens today are lonelier than ever, and because they lack deep, real-world relationships, they’re unequipped to make major life decisions like transitioning. They’re already too young to fully grasp the consequences — but their emotional and social isolation makes them even more vulnerable. This loneliness and lack of connection is a huge source of pain for these girls, and it’s one of the driving forces behind this movement. Finally, my fifth and last takeaway has to do with how all of this is being promoted and reinforced by powerful institutions — the medical establishment, the psychological establishment, the government, and the schools. Shrier gives several examples from each, and I have to admit, I had a sense this was happening — but I didn’t realize the extent of it. We’ve already talked about how the medical community is allowing these interventions without informed consent, and how therapists are labeling kids as trans after just one or two sessions. That’s the psychological establishment’s role — cooperating with, and in some cases outright promoting, the rush to medicalization. Then there’s the government, which is increasingly cutting parents out of the process altogether. In Canada — and now, increasingly in the U.S. — there have been cases where parents have lost custody, been fined, or even jailed for refusing to go along with their child’s transition. And the manipulation starts early. Parents are often told things like, “Would you rather have a dead daughter or a living son?” — an emotionally manipulative statement that pushes them to comply. In some situations, they’re even legally forced to comply or threatened by professionals if they don’t. And then there’s the school system — which I honestly didn’t realize was as involved as it is. I assumed this was mostly student-driven, maybe supported by a few activist teachers. But in many liberal states, it’s actually institutionally promoted — a very aggressive push. Some universities now even include gender transition surgeries in their student health insurance, making it not only accessible but almost free. And, of course, there’s tremendous social and institutional support for those decisions at the college level. All of this adds up to a perfect storm: emotional vulnerability, misinformation, social isolation, and institutional reinforcement.   Now, you’re an adult—you can make all your own decisions. But even in elementary schools, middle schools, and high schools, the schools are beginning to—especially in California and along the West Coast—put policies in place that intentionally create a break between the child and the parent. In fact, the NEA has a policy stating that when a trans-identified student comes out at school, the parents don’t need to be informed—in fact, they usually should not be informed. There’s even a place where the child can check a box that says, “Do my parents know?” And if the parents don’t know, then the school’s policy is not to tell them. So what happens is that schools create a separate set of documents with the child’s new name and gender on them, while holding onto the originals with the legal name. The parents only see the legal documents, so they have no idea their child is literally living a double life. There are many stories about this happening—parents have come to the Capitol to testify about it. Schreyer gives several examples in her book, including interviews with parents who experienced this firsthand. The NEA says, “Privacy and confidentiality are critically important for transgender students who do not have supportive families. In those situations, even inadvertent disclosures could put the student in a potentially dangerous situation at home. So it’s important to have a plan in place to help avoid any mistakes or slip-ups.” It’s absolutely mind-blowing that these practices are becoming more and more commonplace. So my last big takeaway is this: 👉 The profound loss of parental rights! We are no longer seen as the ones ultimately responsible for our children. And I don’t mean “owning” them, but who does the child belong to? Is it the doctor’s child? The psychologist’s child? The school’s child? The government’s child? It’s complicated, I get it—there are laws to protect children from abuse, and sometimes that gets gray and sticky. But this is different. These children are not capable of making such major life decisions, especially when parents genuinely believe it’s not right for them. Parents should have the right to stop that process. Once a child turns 18 and is a legal adult, they can move forward however they choose. But parents shouldn’t have to go through the anguish and heartbreak of cooperating with something they know is deeply harmful for their child. In one interview I watched, parents described the process as a kind of grief—they’re losing their child as that child transitions to another gender. And they’re often ostracized for it. Nobody’s on their side. Nobody sees their pain, because the focus is all about “celebrating” the child and condemning the parents if they hesitate or struggle emotionally. I want to end with something C. Scott Miller said. He’s the Equality California liaison to the California Teachers Association—the one who gives recommendations and works on policy. Here’s what he said: “Even parents that come in and say, ‘I don’t want my kid to be called that’—that’s nice. But their parental right ended when those kids were enrolled in public school.” So parents, this is a call to you: rise up. Do whatever you can to educate yourselves. Read this book, read others, watch interviews, learn what laws are active in your state, and fight for your right to do what’s best for your child—whatever that looks like. Because you are their parent, and you have the right to make those decisions. You shouldn’t be left in the dark while your children are working with Planned Parenthood, the government, or the schools without your knowledge. Thank you for joining me for this overview of my five takeaways from Irreversible Damage. I’ll see you next time.  

Get Your FREE Chapters in Audio format from The Mission Driven Life: Discover and Fulfill Your Unique Contribution to the World: https://www.themissiondrivenmom.com/  “Your mission, should you choose to accept it…”  These are words meant not just for Ethan Hunt but for YOU, right now! God divinely fashioned you to make a difference where you are. Your level of commitment to preparing for the calls God has for you will make all the difference for you, for your family, for your community, and beyond.   And all you have to do is say “YES!”  Through the lens of the Mission Impossible movies, Audrey demonstrates just how mission driven living works. Then, taking those same ideas into the life of George Washington and her own personal experiences, she paints a picture of a beautiful life cadence from one call to the next—full of self-discovery, personal development, and blessings to those around us.   If you’re ready to say yes and begin the adventure of life mission in your own life, this podcast is for you! ________________ Transcript AI Generated:  Hi, welcome back to the podcast. I’m Audrey Rindlisbacher, author of The Mission-Driven Life, founder of The Mission-Driven Mom, creator of the MDM Academy, and I’m your host today to talk about this series of questions we’re answering—what is a mission-driven life, what is mission-driven living, how does it work, and how can we be more mission-driven individuals? I want to thank you for joining me today. If you’re brand new, you can head back to the beginning of the podcast and listen to some of those first episodes. They’ll give you some backstory. We talk in detail about the Seven Laws of Life Mission. You can listen to some mission-driven stories, and in the meantime, you can also keep up with our most recent podcasts. You can expect a variety of different types of podcasts here. We tell mission-driven stories about great men and women—or sometimes men and women living today—who are living according to these Seven Laws of Life Mission. We also talk about what mission-driven living and a mission-driven life look like, which we’re going to dive into today. We also talk to some of our students and graduates about the amazing things they’re doing in the world today in their mission-driven lives. And I also interview individuals—authors, influencers, and others—who have important things to teach us about how we can be more mission-driven in our own lives right now. So thank you for joining me. It’s a joy to be here. If you haven’t headed over to themissiondrivenmom.com to get your free audiobook chapters, I encourage you to do that. We’re giving you part of The Mission-Driven Life book so that you can hear the backstory and framework of the Seven Laws and get acquainted with them easily. While you’re there, if you want a hard copy, you can grab a copy of the book as well. So thank you for being here today. We’re going to answer the question: How does mission-driven living work? And if you stay until the end, you’ll hear a little about my own path along this mission-driven life that I’m attempting to lead, and some of the stories of how I got started and what it’s looked like for me. But I want to start out by giving you a frame of reference for mission-driven living that we’re all probably familiar with—and that is the Mission: Impossible movies. You guessed it—Ethan Hunt enters stage left. In fact, I was reviewing one of the movies recently so I could say this more intelligently to you. It’s just so funny how he’s always on a plane or a mountain or something, and then something gets dropped and it says, “This is your mission, should you choose to accept it.” And it’s always insanely difficult and basically impossible. But in the one I was watching recently, he’s talking to his superior and says, “Well, that sounds really hard.” And his superior replies, “This is Mission: Impossible. ‘Hard’ should be a walk in the park.” So, we aren’t going to do Mission: Impossible when we try to live a mission-driven life, but sometimes it can feel like “Mission: Pretty Hard.” You’ve probably seen one or more Mission: Impossible movies. You know who Ethan Hunt is—you have some context. So, keeping that in mind, let’s think about how those movies always start: he’s given the opportunity to choose to do something. There’s a need in the world. The world is calling to him: “Will you come and save us?” in some specific way. The one I watched recently was Mission: Impossible 2. In that story, there’s a deadly virus that kills within two days, and a corrupt company has been building both the virus and its antidote so they can create the problem and then sell the solution. The scientist working on it tries to get to the United States—probably to work with the U.S. government—but he’s killed along the way. So the call that Ethan Hunt gets is: “Will you save the world? Will you find where this virus is? We have an agent who’s gone rogue—he has both the virus and the antidote—and we need to stop him before he starts a global epidemic.” Now, the calls that you and I get aren’t going to be to save the world in such a literal way. But I want to break down what goes on with Ethan so that you can better understand how this applies to us. If you’ve read my book—or even just parts of it—you’ve seen how, in everyday ways, we can hear and answer calls all the time. There are also larger, encompassing elements. In my last video in this series, I shared an analogy about a king who sees all the needs of his kingdom, and when you make yourself available, he sends you where you’re needed. Today, I want to talk more about the tactical side—what it actually looks like and how it really works. In Ethan Hunt’s case, there have been years and years of preparation. These are what we call the foundational laws: loving God, loving yourself, loving truth, and loving humanity. We’ll return to those laws all our lives. We can always get better at loving ourselves, loving God, loving truth, and loving humanity. But until our home is in good enough order—until we’re out of victimhood, our relationships are more stable, and we’re living some solid financial and personal principles—it’s very hard, when things are messy and out of control, to go out and serve others. That’s why, when we see ourselves as children of God and treat ourselves as such, we can first be of service to ourselves and our homes. That’s where it starts. We work on ourselves and our homes first, and then we can begin serving in our community. Now, Ethan Hunt probably doesn’t believe in God, and I don’t know if he’s lived all these laws, but he’s definitely prepared. And those foundational laws encourage us to prepare as well. There are two ways we prepare for the calls God has for us: We say yes right now to the things we already know we should do. We prepare as we go. We’re intentional about our preparation. We gain knowledge and skills, we work on ourselves and our homes first, and we recognize that preparation leads to calls—and calls lead to more preparation. As we execute calls, we develop new skills and gain more experience, which makes us more capable of answering larger and larger calls. We don’t know much about Ethan Hunt’s backstory—maybe there’s a book series somewhere—but what we do know is that he shows up with massive preparation, education, and skill. He’s done a lot to become the person capable of answering a call that big—one to save the world. Here are some practical skills he’s clearly developed: He’s proficient with guns, explosives, and other equipment—an expert-level operator. He knows which weapons to use and when. He’s also incredibly good at hand-to-hand combat, with strength, agility, and endurance at the top of his physical game. In Mission: Impossible 2, he’s even free-climbing a rock wall at the beginning! There are always car chases, too—and he can manage all kinds of vehicles: cars, motorcycles, helicopters, and more. He can operate them under high-stress, high-stakes conditions with incredible precision. He also works with a team. He handpicks his people, depends on them, trusts them implicitly, listens to their advice, and surrounds himself with those who can help him accomplish his mission. He’s an excellent team leader—he sees what needs to be done and coordinates everyone effectively. He’s also an expert in secrecy, stealth, and spy work. Now, of course, not everyone could reach his level of proficiency—and honestly, his abilities are “impossible” because it’s Hollywood—but there are real people, like Navy SEALs or special agents, who train and develop high levels of these same kinds of skills. He also has access to a vast network of resources. The heads of his organization are plugged into the world’s top leaders and intelligence networks. In the story I watched, they’d discovered the virus threat and were coordinating with top agencies globally. They trust Ethan completely—he’s earned that trust—and they give him everything he needs to succeed. They provide him with other agents—in that movie, a woman whose trust he had to earn because of her relationship with the villain, which allowed her to infiltrate. He can also choose the rest of his team, and they’re all experts in their respective fields. They back him up with tech, surveillance, and intelligence. He has access to all the equipment he needs—explosives, technology, flights, secret identities, passports, travel arrangements—whatever it takes. They also cover his living expenses and provide financial resources and global connections. If you listened to my last podcast, this probably sounds familiar—it’s the same analogy I used before. And finally, his personal character: we admire Ethan Hunt because he puts his life on the line for the good of others. He usually has little to gain and a lot to lose when he accepts these missions. Sometimes it’s his wife’s life at stake; other times, it’s the whole world. It’s definitely over-the-top praise for him—but it’s also inspiring. But the fundamental issue is, he doesn’t have to be this guy. He doesn’t have to risk his life—and he does. And we know that. Sometimes his life might be at risk, but sometimes not. Sometimes it wouldn’t affect him much not to do the mission, but he’s the type of person who has been willing to do all the work to get himself in this position where he can do this kind of work. And he’s always willing to risk himself for the greater good. He keeps himself in top condition. He accepts the mission. He has a passion for the work. He has the natural talents and abilities—in addition to the preparation. Obviously, he had interests in that direction, and he was willing to do the work to be that kind of person. In many ways, he doesn’t always have the same moral compass that I would have in different aspects of his life. But he definitely knows some key, fundamental aspects of right and wrong. He really respects life. He tries not to kill people, even if they’re very evil, unless he absolutely has to. And it’s those traits that he has that cause us to like him, trust him, want to follow him in his adventures, and to cheer him on when he’s trying to make the world a better place. And of course, all of us can choose to be Ethan Hunt. We can choose to live a mission-driven life, where we hear calls and we answer them. So I’m going to give you the example of George Washington, and we’re going to walk through and talk about what mission-driven living looked like for him. And then I’m going to tell you a little bit about me. He, of course, was born in 1732 in Virginia to a slaveholding family, and they were pretty well off. I don’t know all the details—I didn’t go research everything about why he didn’t inherit and how that all went down—but when he was eleven years old, his father died. And when this happened, basically his formal education ended. If you’ve read much about Washington or from Washington, you know that he was very self-conscious about this. He was surrounded by men who had the most elite education available, probably in the world at that time, but definitely in the United States. And he felt inferior to them because he tried to be a lifelong learner. He tried to always keep reading and educating himself, but he hadn’t learned all of the other languages, and he hadn’t read all of the great classics that they had. And so he felt a little bit inferior, and it was because his dad died and he didn’t get to finish that formal education where he would’ve received that tutoring. So time goes by, and he’s working, he’s learning, he’s doing the stuff. And when he’s seventeen years old, he’s appointed to be a county surveyor for a frontier county called Culpeper. It’s really interesting because this is where his interests, his natural propensities—his strengths—really started to show. He was a very tall man, a very strong man. He was more inclined to tactical things rather than abstract ones. Someone like Thomas Jefferson was interested in tinkering with things and inventing, but definitely way more of an intellectual. George Washington loved to be outdoors. He loved the rough and tumble. He loved to do things with his hands. So when he was seventeen years old, he accepted this post to be a surveyor, and he did really well at it. He really, really liked it—and it was rough work. I mean, he was out living in the middle of nowhere on his own, living off the land, and trying to survey this county by himself. It taught him a lot of lessons. And the question I’m going to ask as I go through this example, and my own, is—was this his mission? Was the call to be a surveyor? Well, yeah, he felt like it was the right thing to do. It matched his interests, and like I mentioned before, it developed certain traits, certain gifts, certain skills that he used later. The more he did this kind of thing, the better he got at it, and the more everything he learned could be of use. It’s this cumulative effect in our lives when we say yes. And he keeps saying yes—to the next call, to the next opportunity. He faces his fears. He steps out courageously. He does something he’s never done before. Sometimes with minimal mentorship, sometimes with minimal financial aid—he just does it. He takes on the adventure. He says yes to the call again and again. A couple of years later, his brother becomes ill. So they travel together to Barbados—it’s the only time Washington travels outside North America. While he’s in Barbados, he contracts smallpox. Again, this becomes an opportunity to go do something adventurous, to see the world, and it’s also a call to take care of his brother. He travels with him so he doesn’t have to travel alone. And guess what happens? He gets really, really sick. But by virtue of the fact that he got sick, he was able to care for his soldiers and remain in the war later when smallpox broke out. So again, every time we take an opportunity to serve—he’s serving his brother, he’s developing his own skills—it comes back to bless him and many other people in the future. A year or so later, Governor Dinwiddie, the governor of Virginia, sends him on a mission to the Ohio Valley to deliver a message to the French. And when he goes on this journey, he keeps a journal and writes down everything that happens. When he’s done, it’s a successful mission, but again, it’s fraught with danger. He’s traveling through Native American territory to deliver a message to the French. It’s very dangerous—he could have lost his life—but it was important for Virginia that this happen. He had proven himself in the militia and through his work as a surveyor, so he was given this task. In fact, I think he may have even volunteered for it. He was just in his early twenties. By virtue of the fact that he ran a successful mission and wrote down his journal, which he later handed to Governor Dinwiddie, this journal was printed—and you can still find it online. It made him a local celebrity and earned him a lot of respect. A year later, he’s still a soldier—now a major—and he travels again to the Ohio Valley to fight for Virginia’s claim on some land. During that campaign, he has a combative confrontation with French soldiers. His men end up retreating and surrendering. It’s really embarrassing to Washington. But again, he’s on the front lines. He’s learning a lot from these experiences. He’s so embarrassed by this that he resigns his commission. That failed campaign ends up sparking the French and Indian War. He could’ve just decided he’d had enough—that he was too embarrassed, that it was over—but he didn’t. He didn’t slink away. He kept saying yes when new opportunities came. He recognized that he loved being in the military—that was where he performed best—and that he really wanted to be involved. He loved his country, the colony of Virginia, and he wanted to fight for and defend it. The next year, he returns to the Ohio frontier as a volunteer for General Braddock. He exhibits great courage and leadership, and because of this, he’s recognized for his conduct in battle and given command of the entire military force of Virginia. Still a very young man, just in his mid-twenties, he’s already recognized as someone with great courage and valor in the face of death. Of course, countless people in America—and around the world—owe the freedom they enjoy, at least in part, to this man. A few years later, he marries Martha Custis, the widow of a wealthy man and mother of two young children. George and Martha couldn’t have children together—it was probably George’s infertility, since Martha had already had children. He loved his stepchildren as his own. For the next sixteen years, they lived at Mount Vernon. He was a gentleman farmer, and he loved it. From the beginning, he was born into a slaveholding culture—he couldn’t change that—but he did try to live it differently. He was generous with his slaves. He kept families together and wouldn’t sell them off, even though it became a financial burden. He gave them opportunities to innovate on the property and lived in relative harmony with them. Obviously, they were still enslaved, so I’m not trying to sugarcoat it—but within the time and place he lived, he elevated his circumstances. He lived a higher level of truth at a time when he didn’t have to. That tells us a lot about his character. Then, of course, in 1775, he’s appointed Commander of the Continental Army. For eight years he risks his life over and over again, taking care of his soldiers who often had nothing. If you study that war, you’ll see the struggle and the heartache—how they went without supplies, how the states didn’t always send soldiers or money. It was awful. And when the war was over, he resigned his commission and gave his power back to the people. He was declared a hero around the world because that kind of humility and integrity were rare. Finally, I said yes. Okay, I’ll try it. You’re gonna get what you’re gonna get—I just made sure they understood this was going to be whatever it was going to be. I wasn’t making any promises. But they wanted me to come, so I did. I found out that I’m a pretty okay speaker naturally. Then I got asked to be on a panel, and then to speak more at conferences. So for over twenty years, I’ve been public speaking simply because I said yes when people asked me. They saw something in me that I didn’t see in myself, and I responded to that feedback. So this book club grows and grows. By the end of that year, I’m homeschooling, and I realize we don’t have the kinds of things I want—we don’t have a science fair, we don’t have group outings, we don’t have family events. I really wanted an annual Shakespeare dinner for couples where we could read Shakespeare together and enjoy a traditional dinner. I wanted a family ball. And I knew other people wanted these things too. I saw a need, and I answered the call. I gathered a few friends, we met over the summer, brainstormed how we could do it together. We booked a free room at the library, sent out invitations to people we knew, and asked them to invite others. They came, they paid a small annual fee, they volunteered in the community, and we connected online. It grew and grew until we had over a hundred families in this community. We had an annual ball every year. Later I moved, but it outlived me—it kept going. And all I did was say yes—like George Washington, like Ethan Hunt. Every time I said yes, I learned, I grew, I developed. I found more gifts. I made mistakes and learned from them. And over time, I was able to have more and more influence—really until now. Today, I’m on this podcast. I’ve had the privilege of talking to people like James Lindsay and Susie Mighell, who will be on soon, and others I’ve been reaching out to. I’ve been able to work with Richard Paul Evans, a number one New York Times bestselling author, who helped design my cover and endorsed my book. I’ve had the privilege of amazing experiences—meeting heroes, taking pictures with them, and hoping to meet more. When I was bumping around that college campus years ago, I never imagined I’d be doing what I’m doing today. I’m not famous. Most people don’t know who I am. I’m not Ethan Hunt or George Washington. But in my own small way, in the circles I move in, I’m trying to serve. I’m trying to see a need and answer a call—to give people something that I believe will bless their lives. And in many cases, it’s blessed mine too. In every case, I bring my family with me. I’ve taught them the things I’ve learned, read books aloud to them, and built a family culture of great literature. They saw the book club in our home. They saw me taking risks and facing fears. They’ve come to hear me speak, and when I was on the radio or speaking at big public rallies, they could be proud of a mom using her gifts in the world. I’ve had the privilege of serving over six hundred women in the academy and watching their lives change through the curriculum I’ve built—which happens to be one of my gifts. And you can do these same things. You are so much more gifted than you think you are. You can truly live a mission-driven life—where, over time, as you see a need and say yes, as you grow in your love of God, you love yourself better. You take the actions of love for yourself—self-care, self-leadership, self-discovery. Then you love truth. You build a principle-centered life and a principle-centered home and family. Then you go out and learn about the people in your community. You understand the bridges you can build through shared principles. Then you see needs and start to answer them—as many of our graduates are doing right now. And as you listen to their stories on this podcast, I hope they’ll inspire you too. This is you. This can be you. You are amazing. All you have to do is say yes. Just say yes right now. Offer yourself to God. Tell Him that you’re willing to learn and grow—to face fears, to take personal inventory, to strive to overcome, and to grow as an individual. He will show you the first step. If my book can help, I’m grateful. If our academy can help, I’m grateful. But most of all, what I really want you to know is that you are divinely fashioned—that you are irreplaceable, that your worth is infinite, and that you can make a difference right now, where you are. You’re already leading. People are already following you. They’re watching you level up, improve your game, improve your skills. Go practice more. Be willing to fail faster. Be willing to take risks. Be willing to face your fears. You will be shocked at the person you become, the opportunities that open up to you, and the positive influence you get to have—right where you are, in your own world. So please, become that servant leader God means for you to be—because the world misses out if you don’t become who you could be. Thank you so much for joining me today. If this podcast has been a help or inspiration to you, please pass it along and leave us a review. Thank you for joining me, and I’ll see you next time.  

Get Your FREE Chapters in Audio format from The Mission Driven Life: Discover and Fulfill Your Unique Contribution to the World: https://www.themissiondrivenmom.com/ This week we get to hear about the spiritual strength and resilience of Catherine Marshall. As a young girl, Catherine had three dreams: Become an author Attend Agnes Scott College Marry a wonderful man and have a family Through her diligence in the 7 Laws of Life Mission, she was able to accomplish all three in amazing ways! As graduate of Agnes Scott College, married to the most famous pastor in America and eventually a New York Times bestselling author, Catherine set her course and never relented.  But it was her relationship with God that made it all possible. And her incredible willingness to be honest with herself and course correct when she knew she wasn’t living as she should, was the real magic of her life.  In this podcast, you’ll hear beautiful stories of personal triumph that have inspired Audrey and many others to put God first, love themselves, and strive to fulfill God’s missions for them. It will motivate you to step into your callings and fulfill them with integrity! ________________ Transcript AI Generated: Welcome back to the podcast. I'm Audrey Rindlisbacher, founder of The Mission-Driven Mom and author of The Mission-Driven Life. On this podcast, we talk about all thing’s life mission. We interview great men and women who are living mission-driven lives or have important concepts and principles to share with us. We talk about what mission-driven living looks like and how moms can be more mission-centered. We focus on natural law and true principles—how we can build principle-centered homes and lives, how we can take care of ourselves, discover who we are, and lead ourselves and others. All those great concepts and more you will find on this podcast. I'm super excited today to be sharing with you a mission-driven story about Catherine Marshall. This is where we highlight someone in history who really well exemplifies the seven laws of life mission as they lived them. They’ve left a very positive imprint on the world through aligning themselves with these seven laws of life mission and their accompanying principles. So I'm really excited to share some of Catherine Marshall’s greatest insights—some of her greatest battles and victories—as a woman of faith and a truly mission-driven mom. Before we do that, if you're new to this podcast, continue listening to these new episodes, but you might want to consider going back to the beginning and listening to some of those initial podcasts where I introduce myself and my history, explain how we got to be doing what we’re doing, and walk you through those seven laws in more detail. Those podcasts are a great companion to The Mission-Driven Life book, and you’ll hear lots of other mission-driven stories besides Catherine Marshall’s. You’ll get a lot of really nourishing content that I hope will inspire and uplift you and help you on your life’s path. Oh, one last thing—if you have not gone and gotten your free chapters of The Mission-Driven Life, head over to themissiondrivenmom.com right now and make sure to grab those audio chapters of the book. You can listen to them, get an overview, and gain an understanding of what we’re doing here. And then, if you want to grab a hard copy of the book, it’s available there as well. I also want to mention that I’m continuing to work on my new book, How Truth Makes Us Free, and hope to do that launch in the spring of 2026. I’m working on chapter seven of about ten or eleven chapters, and then I’ll send it over to the editor. We’ll start looking at book covers and all that good stuff. So I’m getting excited—it’s getting real! You can look forward to that book coming out. Hopefully, it’ll be something to help you as well. So let’s dive into Catherine Marshall. She is quite an amazing woman. She was born in the early 1900s—1914—in Greenville, Tennessee. She moved several different places during her life, and she had a Presbyterian minister for a father. She never had much money; they struggled pretty much all her life. But she has some beautiful tributes to her mother especially, who did some pretty amazing things. She says that her mother, Leonora, was born in 1891 and raised in North Carolina, and when she was 18, she volunteered to be a teacher for Dr. Edward O. Garren’s mission, which was located in the Great Smoky Mountains of East Tennessee. That story, which I’ll mention in a little bit, was one Catherine heard about all through her childhood. She was really fascinated by this story, and eventually, one of her great dreams—she had three great dreams in her life—was to become a successful author. Well, she did do that, and Christy, I think, is the pinnacle of all her writing. It’s my very favorite book—one of my favorite books in the world—but definitely my favorite book by Catherine Marshall. It is the story of her mother and the work that she did among the Appalachian people in the Great Smoky Mountains. She met her husband there, actually, when she was doing this service work. Her mother was very mission-driven—her parents very mission-driven—and so that was modeled for her. When Catherine was a young girl, about nine or ten years old, she gave her life to Jesus, and after that, she tried to be a good Christian girl, following the example of her mother. She said she never thought of them as poor because her mother’s philosophy was to find good in every circumstance and to always emulate a very consistent, positive attitude. In the Academy, we call this optimistic realism, and her mother really portrayed that. She said her mother’s real secret was an utter, confident inner attitude. Always before her was the picture of a healthy, fulfilled family. Catherine said of her mother: “No matter how little you have, you can always give some of it away. And when you do that, you can’t feel sorry for yourself, and you can scarcely consider yourself poor.” That was one of many lessons I learned in studying the life of Catherine Marshall. It really made even more sense to me about the principle of the tithe and philanthropy. To be generous not only helps others—I always knew it helped the person we give to—but it also helps us in ways I had never thought about. It helps us feel more affluent, to feel like we have enough for ourselves and to share. It helps us stay out of self-pity and have an attitude of gratitude because we do have enough and can share. It’s a constant reminder of those who have less than us. This is a really beautiful principle that her mother taught her. She also volunteered in the community. They moved to this place called Radical Hill, and she wanted to change the name of the vicinity from Radical Hill to Potomac Heights. She and her volunteers refurbished an old abandoned hotel and made it a meeting place for all kinds of activities, including a Bible study and childcare classes given by herself. This was what she was giving to the community around her. Like I talk about in the book—and we talk about in the Academy a lot—this mindset begins when we first learn to love ourselves better and to love God better. Her mother Leonora, renamed Christy in the novel, really did this. She understood what her gifts were. She volunteered for service work at a young age. She learned a lot about herself during that mission work she did as a young woman, and eventually, she learned to love humanity. She put her life on a foundation of true principles by loving truth—that’s Law Four—and then she learned to love humanity and became a servant leader. When she was 19 and volunteered to go up into the mountains to teach the backwoods people, she learned how to give herself to God. If you read the book Christy (which I highly recommend—and we do in the Academy), you see her personal growth. You see how she gives herself to God, learns to understand what faith is, and learns to take care of herself properly, etc. By the time she’s a mother of growing children, she not only has a home centered on principles and faith; she also knows how to give in meaningful ways to the community. She sees the problems around her and, like I say in the book, she offers principled solutions to real-world problems. These were real-world problems—probably you and I would both rather live in a place called Potomac Heights than Radical Hill! She built this community center, and it became a hub. Eventually, the welfare board that had been helping her run this work had to tell her there weren’t enough funds to even pay her. She didn’t mind—she continued doing it for free. And through Leonora’s inspiration, the work continued and the community was renewed. So beautiful. By the time Catherine Marshall was 12, 13, 14, she had a pretty clear vision of her future—of the kind of woman she wanted to become and what she wanted her life to look like. Her first and most cherished goal, like I said before, was to become an author. She wasn’t sure what she was going to write, but she knew she loved to write, and that felt like the right calling or vocation for her. She also really wanted to attend Agnes Scott College. I relate to her for a lot of reasons, but also because I’m right in the throes of having children who are applying to college. Two of my youngest knew the colleges they wanted to attend, and it was just in their hearts so strongly. Neither of them has been accepted to those schools yet, but I know it’s possible for them if they still cherish that dream—just like Catherine did. I’m going to tell you a story in a minute about how that happened for her. She genuinely wanted to attend Agnes Scott College. For whatever reason, that was just on her heart and really important to her. She also wanted to marry a wonderful man and have a family. She had cherished these dreams, gone through high school, and done the work to get herself accepted to Agnes Scott College. But it was expensive—more expensive than her family could afford. As college drew close, she became more and more discouraged that she wouldn’t have the money to pay for it. Of course, this was a time in history when there weren’t government grants being handed out. If you wanted a college education, you had to come up with the money. And I do think that helped build character for many people who were required to do that. But she was hundreds of dollars short. One night, her mother came to her room and found her weeping because she was so discouraged that this dream was never going to come true—that she would never be able to attend this college. Her mother said to her: “Catherine, I know it’s right for you to go to college. Every problem has a solution. Let’s ask God to tell us how to bring this dream to reality.” What took place next was truly life-changing for Catherine. Right then and there, her mother encouraged them both to kneel and pray. I don’t know if they said vocal prayers together first, but as the clock ticked, they remained on their knees, eventually saying individual quiet prayers. One of the ways Catherine described it was that her mother was admitting her to the “inner sanctum of her prayer closet.” So they’re there praying, and Catherine’s really trying to have a spiritual experience and connect with God. This is from her journal: “As I prayed, as time went on, as we continued to pray for I don’t know how long, finally the truth struck me. For most of my life, I had been selfish. I had been working toward selfish purposes. I had given so little of myself to God. I had not really taken much part in Mother’s work to transform Radical Hill to Potomac Heights. With a sinking heart, I remembered all the times I had seen members of the church coming up the front walk, and I would flee up the back stairs to my room where I could be alone to read and not have to give myself to others in the sharing of their problems. Scene after scene flashed across my mind’s eye—the times I had resented my brother and sister, the many occasions when my parents had gone without something they needed so we children could have new clothing, piano lessons, books, or sports equipment. I felt more unworthy than ever, and my going to college would call for yet more sacrifices from my parents. I stole a look at my mother. She was praying intensely, but soundlessly, with her lips moving. Then, closing my eyes, I silently prayed the most honest prayer of my life to that point. “Lord, I have been selfish. I have taken everything from You, from Your Church, and from my parents—and given little of myself in return. Forgive me for this, Lord. Perhaps I don’t deserve to go to a college like Agnes Scott.”  A deep sob in my throat made me pause. I knew what I had to do.” She goes on: “And Lord, I turn this dream over to You. I give it up. It’s in Your hands. You decide.” And something really beautiful happened after that, she said. “I was learning the price of a relationship with God—and it’s dropping all of our masks and pretense. We must come to Him with stark honesty, as we are—or not at all. My honesty brought me relief. It washed away the guilt. It strengthened my faith.” And I have to say, from a personal standpoint, I have had this experience many times—even recently—when I’ve wanted certain problems or personal issues I was experiencing to go away. When I wanted to feel differently about myself or other people, I’ve had to go through my own self-evaluation. I’ve had to look honestly at what’s really driving me and to truly repent—to tell God I’m sorry—because so much of it is wrapped up in my ego and how I want to present myself to the world. My self-image, what people say and think about me—I want to be able to control that. And really, that’s not handing it over to Him. Remembering and recognizing that nobody else’s perceptions matter besides the Lord’s—and that I’ve got to put my ego aside if I really want to be close to Him, if I really want the peace I’m seeking, if I truly want to engage in my relationships in healthier, better ways—it can’t be about any of that. So I really, really related here. And there are a couple of other stories I’m going to tell you today where I deeply related to what Catherine was going through. I could see in my own life how necessary it was for me to again hand it over—to live that principle of willingness that I talk about in my book and in the Academy. We have to hand it over to God and stop trying to control everything else. We can only control ourselves—and that’s it. When we really accept that truth and get serious about finding the tools, principles, and skills to manage and lead ourselves better, we find that everything goes better in our lives. Living these principles is so beautiful—and of course, she had a beautiful result from this story. Not long after this, their petition was answered. Leonora received a letter from the federal government offering her a salary to write the history of the county. The money was more than enough to pay Catherine’s tuition. Catherine stood in awe of the God of her mother—the God who forgave her selfish attitude and graciously supplied what she needed to attend college. So this was really her first major spiritual experience—where she saw the kinds of things God could do for her personally. It awakened her to how important her relationship with God was, how she could nurture it, and what it was going to require of her. Throughout her life, she was always trying to dig deeper into this relationship—and it’s amazing. I’m not going to tell you all the stories, but I’m going to recommend a couple of books you can read if you want to know more about her. What we find with Catherine Marshall—as with so many other mission-driven individuals—is that she’s backed up against a wall and realizes that she has more personal power than she thinks she does. And much of that power lies in giving herself up to God—giving herself up to principles and truths she’s been ignoring or denying. I’ll tell you one of those stories in just a minute. But first, to fill in the blanks of her story: she went off to college, and not far from there was a man named Peter Marshall, who was the pastor of a church. He was from Scotland—I talked about this a little bit in a previous podcast—and he was incredible. If you haven’t watched A Man Called Peter or read the book, it’s very worth your time. The movie is especially good—it covers this entire period of Catherine’s life. I’m going to touch briefly on what happens during her marriage to Peter Marshall, but you can have a beautiful experience watching that film and learning more about their story. You’ll learn about his life, how he got to that point, and you’ll see their courtship and marriage. I’m going to spend more time on what happened before and after that time period so you can go watch the movie for their shared experiences. Basically, he was the pastor, and she felt drawn to him. He was about ten or twelve years older than her. By the time she was a sophomore or junior, she was attending his church pretty regularly. She was noticing him; he was noticing her—but he was incredibly busy as a pastor, traveling and speaking, and having a lot of success. He had been an immigrant from Scotland, like I said, and was called to the ministry. He’d even had his life miraculously saved—really incredible experiences. He kind of dated her a little bit, but then she wouldn’t hear from him for long periods, so she thought he wasn’t interested. She’d try to get over him and be mad at him, but eventually they connected, and after she graduated from college, they were married. They had a very united, beautiful relationship. He was very good to her, and she was very good to him. He took her feelings and thoughts into account all the time. Even though she was younger, he respected her wishes and involved her in decisions. They felt very unified. They were only able to have one child together—a son, named for his father. There was a really incredible experience that Catherine had after Peter Jr. was two or three years old. She became very ill with tuberculosis and languished for two or three years. She tried everything. She had an incredible spiritual journey—confined to bed most of that time and not getting better. She went through these spiritual steps of drawing closer to God, really getting herself to that point—and this happens so often—where she was willing to let God’s will be done. There were multiple times in her life when that theme rang so loudly. If you want to understand that principle better, again, read some of these books, listen to the mission-driven stories I share here, learn about it in my book—and if you really want to dive deep, you can join us in the Academy. But she goes through this whole experience—beautifully portrayed in the movie—where she eventually gives it to God and says, “I will be an invalid all my life if that’s Your will.” And it’s at that point she turns a corner. She begins to heal, and within six months, she’s up and about. It’s really a beautiful story. A couple of years after that—maybe just two or three years later—Peter, her husband, began having heart issues. He eventually had a heart attack. Though he recovered and seemed to be doing better, he died quite suddenly in his mid-forties. When Peter died, she was just 34 years old. She was a young widow, a single mother. She kept a lot of journals, so we have many of her words. She also spoke and wrote quite a bit. In one of her writings, she talked about the divine comfort she was given after Peter’s death: “Peter Marshall’s death from a heart attack at 46 was a devastating blow. ‘Why?’ I asked the Lord. ‘Why take a man who loves You so much, who is in the prime of his life, whose impact on people for You is so great?’ In the midst of grief, I had a million whys. One of them was answered. Instead, into my anguished emotions there crept one morning a strange, all-pervading peace. Through and around me flowed love as I had never before experienced it. It was as if Someone who loved me very much were wrapping me round and round with His infinite care and protection. I knelt there, marveling at what was happening. I had done nothing, said nothing to bring it about. I understood no more than before the reason for my young husband’s death. I only knew that, in some transcendent way, it was deeply and eternally all right.” She had this beautiful experience after he died, which gave her great peace. But then she was left to raise their son on her own. She began to struggle financially, and she began sharing more about Peter’s life. That eventually led to her writing A Man Called Peter. The book became an instant success—it was a New York Times bestseller—and was quickly made into the 1955 movie I mentioned earlier (which you can still stream online). That brought in revenue and peace of mind. It was beautiful that she was finally doing the writing she had always wanted to do and finding success at it. That brought both financial stability and personal fulfillment. She began having daily devotionals with God and spending quiet time with Him. During this period, Peter Jr. was really struggling. As a teenager and young adult, he became quite rebellious. At 14, he started smoking. He was reading and watching bad things, getting into trouble with the law with his friends, and living a reckless college life. Having grown up with such a spiritually strong father, he didn’t deal well with the loss, and Catherine struggled to connect with him. These were difficult years. During her daily devotionals, the Lord would counsel her—sometimes giving her very practical advice. She wrote in her journal that God said things like: “Don’t be afraid for young Peter. No harm will come to him. You still have not completely released Peter to Me. Fear usually comes from guilt.” And then more practical guidance, like: “Here’s what to do with TV and movies. Here’s how to teach tidiness, responsibility for his own clothes, money and allowances.” She felt God helping her. She was striving to live by principles—to establish her home and life on truth. She kept returning to those foundational laws so she could live the leadership laws better. Here she was—called to be a single mom, called to be an author—trying to love herself, her son, and humanity. She was struggling, but she kept trying to learn how. One of the things that crept in during these years was loneliness. That loneliness led to self-pity, and that self-pity led to a negative outlook on life. When she looked out at the world, she saw the bad. For a long time, she didn’t even want to date again because she felt it would be a betrayal to Peter. Eventually, she felt more peace about it and began to date. She fell in love with a man named Howard, but he wasn’t a spiritual person at all—and that became a big barrier in their relationship. Eventually, she had an experience where she came to see what she was doing wrong.   This was something that she wrote in her journal: “I had a revelation today that there has to be someone else for me into whose life I can pour everything—since this is what my whole being cries out for. It is sure, as sure as the fulfillment of the tides of the ocean, that love will come again somewhere. There is a man whose life needs this lavish giving, whose personality and career will bloom and blossom under it.” So she realized she wanted to give herself to someone else. And one of the lessons she learned during this whole period of life—where she was single for a dozen or more years—was that God helps to sculpt and change us through family life. It is one of the greatest schools of our time on Earth, and it’s through these family relationships that He helps us become who we can become. But she didn’t have someone to give herself to, and by the time Peter went off to school, she was even more lonely. She was trying to figure out how to find someone, but when things didn’t work out with Howard, she became even lonelier and more discouraged. Eventually, she had an experience that helped her understand what she had been doing wrong. She wrote this in her journal: “For this past year, I have felt defeated and frustrated—and this certainly is not as God wishes it. Here are some of the ways I have allowed my loneliness to defeat me.” She talked about how the savor had gone out of her life. “This is wrong,” she said. “The zest has gone out of everything.” She just felt down and depressed, negative about most aspects of her life. She wrote: “There has been a growing coldness in my heart toward other people. Visiting the sick has been a chore. There hasn’t been any joy in it. There’s been an increasing preoccupation with self.” She sought more satisfaction in material things than spiritual things. She had been more irritable about the daily grind of life. She wrote: “I’ve known that God wanted me to wake up earlier and spend an hour with Him, but I haven’t been consistent in doing it.” She hadn’t been engaged in self-mastery as she once had been. She had been giving in to little passions that were leading to bigger ones. So this self-evaluation—like I mentioned earlier—was again really replenishing. And it actually is. I know I bring up Alcoholics Anonymous a lot, but it’s such a beautiful example of the spiritual journey we all have to be on. For those alcoholics, it’s the daily inventory—staying out of self-pity, forgiving instead of resenting. And it’s recognizing that while self-evaluation might seem painful or difficult, it’s actually freeing. As moms, we sometimes think that if we’re really honest with ourselves, we’ll feel even more depleted and worse than before. But actually, it’s so liberating—if we do it honestly, not in a self-pitying way like, “Oh, I’m so subhuman, I could never be different; life is awful; I can’t change.” Rather, in a spirit of curiosity: What have I been doing that’s actually holding me back? What are my perceptions, my attitudes, my habits that are keeping me stuck? And how can I gain new skills and tools for being different? This is what Catherine beautifully demonstrates—over and over again—and it’s so renewing, so empowering. This is why we’ve built the Academy the way we have. Because some of the hardest work we have to do is this work of self-leadership. We need to engage in self-care—really taking care of ourselves by meeting our real needs, as I talk about in the book and in the Academy. Then we engage in self-leadership—this kind of self-evaluation, this personal inventory we take on an ongoing basis. And then we move into self-discovery—that beautiful reminder that we are divinely fashioned, uniquely made, bringing unique gifts and talents into the world that we must develop and use. Cycling through those stages in the Academy is very nourishing. So I encourage you: follow up this personal inventory and the peace that comes from God by recognizing your gifts—and then go out and develop and use those gifts for good. That’s how this beautiful rhythm works. One more story I want to share with you before we finish up. After all of this happened—and after she was honest about what loneliness was doing to her—she had already recognized her deep desire to pour her life into someone. There was a man named Len, whose wife was an alcoholic who never recovered. They tried everything, stayed together for a long time, but eventually she had to be institutionalized. When that happened, he wanted to move forward in his life. While he and his children still maintained some contact with her, he was left to raise three children alone. He knew of Catherine Marshall because he worked in the publishing industry and she was a well-known author. They had met once and interacted a little. At one point, after rebelling against God for a time—living carelessly for months or maybe a year, which was very detrimental to his family—Len finally came to himself. He realized, This isn’t who I want to be. He went to God and said, “Okay, I want to do this, but I need help.” And Catherine Marshall’s name came to his mind in prayer. He sought opportunities to see her. They didn’t live near each other, but he found excuses to travel where she was and spend time with her. Eventually, it became clear that he was trying to court her. They did fall in love, but she was hesitant. His children were still at home, she was in her mid-forties, and taking on early motherhood again—with one child under ten and teenagers besides—felt daunting. She didn’t want to do it. But again, she went back to God. She was willing to accept His will in her life, and it ended up being a huge blessing for her—and for them. She learned many lessons, and they grew together. His children came to see her as their mother, and they loved her deeply. Beautiful things came from that union. The last story I want to tell you as we finish up the mission-driven life of Catherine Marshall brings us full circle. Her son Peter got married, and it turned out that he and his wife shared a genetic combination that gave their children a 50% chance of inheriting a rare, fatal disease. Their first child was healthy, but their second was born with the disease and died within a few months. When they were expecting their third—a little girl—they knew the risk. When she was born, she too had the disease. Peter Jr., and especially Catherine, decided they would intervene—that somehow God would perform a miracle and save this baby’s life. They were determined. Catherine did what she knew best: she turned to intercessory prayer. She had led many prayer groups before, so she gathered a dozen devoted friends and they prayed around the clock for a week. They did everything medically possible and spiritually possible. By this time, Peter Jr. had experienced a personal conversion, had come back to God and to Christianity, and was even serving as a pastor. He and his wife were happily married and devoted to faith. But despite their prayers and efforts, the baby’s life was not spared. She died within a few months. This loss sent Catherine into one of the deepest depressions of her life. Once again, something happened she couldn’t control—something she didn’t want—and she believed she had done everything right. She couldn’t understand why God hadn’t intervened. For months she languished—depressed, sleepless, anxious, and withdrawn. Her husband Len couldn’t reach her. Finally, after several months, two of her close friends came to see her. They came to lovingly confront her. She had been in seclusion, and they knew it was time. Now, this isn’t how we often handle things today. In our modern world, we sometimes forget that peace can still come even when we don’t understand. Catherine didn’t have a genetic disorder causing her depression—this was circumstantial grief, deep and understandable. Her friends had given her time to grieve, but after months of isolation, they felt led to intervene. They asked her about her anger toward God. She insisted she wasn’t angry—because she knew it would do no good. But they told her that God wanted her to stop wallowing in self-pity, to confess the sin of rebellion, and to repent. It was a powerful moment. Now, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with seeking professional help or medication when needed. But sometimes, as Catherine demonstrated throughout her life, deep peace also requires honest self-examination and alignment with truth. She explained to her friends that confession and repentance hadn’t helped. She said: “I’ve already done this again and again. I honestly have. It’s the complete lack of response that confounds me. I’ve never lived in this kind of vacuum before. I talk, I pray—nothing. For most of my life, I’ve felt God’s presence, heard His voice, received thoughts that I knew came from Him. No more. He’s gone out of my life.” She told them she had been so caught up in the battle for her granddaughter Amy’s life that she could hardly think straight. Through this experience, she eventually realized that she had been acting on her will—not necessarily God’s. She wrote: “I’ve always tried to be 100% in everything I do, and always before, God honored my efforts. Why not this time?” And that realization was profound. It helped her see what she had been missing: she had to accept life as it was, to stop fighting against it. This is something we talk about often—in the book and in the Academy—that there are things we can control and things we cannot. When we can’t control something, we have to truly let go. I realized I had been hanging on to expectations—things I wanted to happen—and that was, in its own way, rebellion. Catherine wrote something that finally made it clear: “We must completely and profoundly accept the circumstances which God allows. If He can do anything, He can change circumstances—and if He chooses not to, then it is our job to accept them.” That doesn’t mean accepting defeat. It means accepting reality so deeply that we are no longer in rebellion—and then we can bloom right where we are. Her friend Virginia pinpointed it: “Catherine, what lies at the root of your anguish is your insistence on understanding. You want answers. You want to know why.” And that’s the key difference. When her husband Peter died years before, she didn’t know why—but she accepted it and found peace. She wrote: “I am beginning to see it all now. The instant we are in a state of rebellion, we have not only lost our contentment and joy—we have also declared personal war on God. If God is truly God, then He is Lord and ruler of circumstances. So if we are rebellious against the circumstances He has allowed, then we are, in practical fact, rebelling against Him. No wonder God withdrew His presence from me. My spirit of rebellion shut the door in His face. It was saying, ‘I will do it my own way. I will be the boss of my own life.’” From that point on, she began rising at six again, spending that hour with God in prayer and scripture each morning. She felt renewal. Not long after, her health began to decline again. The damage from her earlier tuberculosis worsened, and she eventually passed away. But the lessons she left us with are powerful. Accepting the circumstances God allows doesn’t mean we stop growing. It means we stop using them as excuses not to grow. We stop saying, “I can’t change because of my kids, my husband, my finances, my health, my past…” We profoundly accept what we cannot control—so that God can show us how to grow within those circumstances. And when we do that, peace and purpose return. That’s what Catherine’s life showed me—and why her story has meant so much to me personally. Her willingness to do this personal inventory all throughout her life—to accept the circumstances God allowed, and then seek truth and apply the principles of human growth and potential—led her to constantly move forward, forgive, develop, and give. She answered calls to write, to pray, to serve, to lead, to love—and she did it all as a servant leader. She truly inspires me. I hope something in her story has lifted you today. I hope it’s reminded you of a principle you can begin to practice—and inspired you to live more intentionally by the seven laws of life mission. May you find deeper meaning, chase your potential while bringing your family along with you, and have a positive impact in the world through your unique gifts. You are divinely fashioned. God loves you dearly. He will use you if you are willing—and He will heal you if you will let His will be done in your life. Thank you for joining me today. I’m so grateful we could spend this time together. I hope you have a wonderful week, and I’ll see you next time.  

Get Your 3 FREE Audiobook Chapters of The Mission Driven Life: Discover and Fulfill Your Unique Contribution to the World: https://www.themissiondrivenmom.com/ In this brief interview, Carolyn shares how the principles of the MDM Academy transformed her life, her marriage, and her relationships. She discusses why the program appealed to her, the rich friendships she developed through the academy, and how principles are improving her life! If you've ever wondered about whether or not this program is for you or your family, this interview will answer your questions and inspire you to let principles transform YOUR life! Listen to the David Emerald interview for a deep dive into some of the concepts that have changed Carolyn's life! https://www.themissiondrivenmom.com/podcasts/the-mission-driven-mom-podcast/episodes/2148868481  ___________ Podcast Transcript (AI Generated)  All right. Welcome back to the podcast! Thanks for joining me today. I’ve got Carolyn Marriott with me — a good friend and a member of the Mission Driven Mom Academy. We’re just going to talk for a few minutes today about her experience. For those of you who might be considering it, have gone through part of it, or are wondering how to get through it — or even what it’s all about and why you should care — Carolyn’s going to share some of her experiences. I thought she would be a great person to answer some of your questions, concerns, and other things that have come up about what this whole thing is, why it matters, and how it can bless your life. So Carolyn, let’s start by you just telling us a little bit about yourself — your family, your career path, education, whatever you’d like to share. Carolyn: Okay. Well, let’s go clear back. I was a straight-A student all through high school — pretty good in college. Audrey: Mm-hmm. Carolyn: Not quite as straight-A, but still good. But I always knew there was something missing. Audrey: I felt that way too. Carolyn: Yeah. That’s so crazy. Why is that? Ugh. Audrey: “This can’t be it.” Like, is this it? Carolyn: Exactly. I had this piece of paper in my hand, and I knew I’d never read Shakespeare yet! I mean, I knew enough to know that there were holes — that I didn’t know how to think. I knew that for a long time. Maybe it was because my dad was such a good example — he was super smart, always reading difficult things. I wouldn’t necessarily say classics, but he was always reading and talking about ideas and stuff. He didn’t really teach us how to do it — maybe he modeled it — but we didn’t really have discussions. Anyway, I don’t mean to criticize him, but maybe it was because of him that I knew I was inadequately educated. And then as I started having kids and sending them to school, I was unhappy with the school system. We were not in a good district, and I began homeschooling. That’s when I say my education really started, because all of a sudden I had this fantastic interest in learning — what education was all about — and started asking questions. Audrey: Yeah. Carolyn: I started doing a book group, just knowing I wanted to stay intellectually active, because especially as a mother of a lot of children, you just feel like a beast of burden. It kept my mind busy and gave me things to think about. Looking back though, they were kind of lame book discussions. Audrey: Right? You don’t know what you don’t know. Carolyn: Exactly! We’d be like, “I don’t know, why did Tess do that?” or “That was so weird.” We were trying to talk about ideas, but we didn’t really know how. So again, I was getting there — but I needed MDM a long time ago. Let’s just say that. I needed Mission Driven Teen! Audrey: Yeah. Carolyn: But you know, I’m not dead yet, so— Audrey: There you go. Carolyn: There’s still time! Anyway, I was almost done with my kids-at-home stage of life, and I was in a homeschool group. I don’t know how they learned about Mission Driven Mom, but I would hear their comments. They would say such cool things, and I was like, “Wow, that was so profound! What is this? How are you guys learning this stuff?” I think that’s how I first heard about it. I also was somehow on an email list. Audrey: Oh, oh! Carolyn: Yeah, it’s a little vague because it’s been a while, and it took me a while to get started after I first heard of it. Once I started, I don’t think it had been going very long. Audrey: What made you sign up in the first place? Carolyn: Well, I’ve always had this desire to learn more. I could see from my friends that they were discussing things and ideas I hadn’t even thought about. Because I had that desire for more, I wanted to know what they were getting that I wasn’t. We actually had monthly book discussions with our group, and they seemed to be coming up with such good stuff. So I signed up! It took me a while to get started. I had every intention of going through the book — because back in the day, we got a paper book. Audrey: Yeah — the hard copy workbook. It’s just a printable now. Carolyn: Right. I had my plans to go through it, and it was encouraged that we get an accountability partner. So I thought, “I should probably do that.” Audrey: Yeah. Carolyn: We decided to email each other every week about what we’d done, but that didn’t go so great — for about six months actually. Then we met at one of the Celebrations — I think it was the first Celebration. Meeting her in person, sitting next to each other, we made a new connection and decided we needed to do a Zoom meeting. So every week we started doing Zoom meetings together. Audrey: That’s great. Carolyn: And that’s when we really took off. Audrey: My daughter does it with a couple of women she’s met — they’re in different states and everything — Carolyn: Oh wow. Audrey: Yeah, they’re in different parts of the program. Carolyn: My first partner and I worked together, and that worked really well. We could discuss ideas with each other and talk about how we were applying things in our lives. That’s something I would really encourage people to do — get together with others. I’ve never met anyone in this program that I didn’t just adore. I’ve met so many great women. Audrey: Yeah. Carolyn: They’re like-minded — they think being a mother is important, they believe they have a mission, they really want to learn, they’re seeking truth. That’s my kind of girl. Audrey: Yeah. Amen. Carolyn: Amen! So Valerie, my first partner — she’s quite a bit younger; she could be my daughter — but that didn’t matter. We got along great. Then we heard of other women and ended up joining their group. Now we’re in a group of about eight of us who meet weekly. I’ve since met even more women and now have the best friends in the world. What do we do together? We talk about ideas. You know, years ago I heard someone say, “You should talk about ideas, not people” — as in, don’t gossip. And I remember thinking, What else is there? Audrey: Yeah! Carolyn: Like, what ideas would we even talk about? Audrey: Yeah. Carolyn: Now I get it — there are so many! Audrey: Yeah, I didn’t get it either back then — but now, there are so many. Carolyn: Exactly. Audrey: So tell me what you remember — what were some of the things that stood out to you that you were learning in the program? Carolyn: The number one — probably my biggest takeaway — is just to be a creator. When I opened my book, there was a little paper insert that said, “I am a creator.” I literally had tears spring to my eyes because I’d never heard that before — and I instantly knew it was true. One of the recurring blessings in my life has been recognizing that I am not a victim. I can choose the life I want. I can create the life I want. Things will happen to me that I can’t control — Audrey: Yeah. Carolyn: — but I can control how I respond to the circumstances I’m given. And in that way, I am like God. I create with what I’ve got. That’s been life-changing. It’s made my marriage better, all my relationships better. It’s made me happier. I can recognize when I’m in victim mode — and I’ll say, “Okay, I’m in victim mode right now,” — but now I recognize it, and I come out of it. Whereas before, I think I lived in victim mode for years — decades, maybe — blaming others, feeling helpless, hopeless. Audrey: Yeah. Carolyn: So that was huge. Audrey: That’s huge. So why do you feel like it’s made such a big difference in your relationships? Carolyn: Well, I’m not blaming my husband, for example. I’m not blaming him because he’s the way he is and wants to do things a certain way. Audrey: Okay. Carolyn: And I want to do it another way, but I’m more of a pleaser and he’s more opinionated. Audrey: Yeah. Carolyn: And then I’d get mad at him because he had that opinion and I had to do what he wanted, right? But no — he doesn’t want a doormat wife anyway. As much as he likes having his way and not having to give in — that’s not what he really wants.   Audrey: So how are you showing up as a creator without being off-putting to people — or making them feel like now it’s your way or the highway, or something like that? You know what I mean? That kind of nuance — how do you feel like you’re showing up in relationships in this “creator” way? Can you describe that? Carolyn: Well, maybe it looks like saying, “Let’s talk about this, because this is what I think, and this is how I think we should do it. What do you think about that?” And then, “Okay, I can see one of us might have to compromise here — and if it’s me, I’m not going to hold it over your head forever,” that kind of thing. It doesn’t mean you have to have your way; it’s just not blaming the other person every time something goes wrong. Audrey: Yeah. And owning your own stuff. Carolyn: Owning your own stuff — yes, exactly. Maybe I’m not the easiest person to live with! And when I consider that, it helps me see more clearly. Another huge thing that has really helped me in my relationships is when we worked to discover our top values. Audrey: Yeah. Carolyn: At first, I thought it was kind of dumb. I mean, of course all these values are fabulous — how can I possibly choose? Like, I’m not going to say honesty isn’t a top value for me, but it’s not the top. It took me a while to realize that doesn’t mean I go around lying — it’s just not one of my top three values. Audrey: Yeah. Carolyn: So that was a huge thing. It took me weeks, but I slowly discovered, “Oh my goodness — the way things look, aesthetics, are really important to me.” That’s one of my top three values. Audrey: Wow. Carolyn: And it doesn’t mean my life is perfectly aesthetically beautiful, but it’s something that deeply matters to me — and that’s okay. That was freeing, because I used to think, “I shouldn’t be so focused on that; it’s so worldly.” Audrey: Yeah. Carolyn: But no — it’s one of my gifts to the world. Audrey: Yes. Carolyn: And then my husband — well, his top three values are different from mine. Audrey: Sure. Carolyn: So now I recognize that. Independence, for example, is probably his number one value. Audrey: Yeah. Carolyn: And for me, that’s like number ninety-nine on my list — pretty far down there! Audrey: Uh-huh. Carolyn: So now I value his independence instead of seeing it as annoying. Audrey: Wow. Carolyn: I hadn’t identified that before. I just knew he always wanted to do things his own way, own his own business — things that were really important to him, but not important to me. So I didn’t understand it. Now I see — that’s one of his top values. Aesthetics isn’t one of his, so we can work together, compromise when needed. Maybe I need a little more security than his independence provides, or maybe I need the house a little cleaner than he cares about. We recognize those differences — and they’re good. They’re both equally good. One isn’t better than the other. Audrey: That’s awesome. Carolyn: It really is. It also helped me respect myself more, because I used to think my gifts were kind of boring or dumb. And now I’m like, “Ooh — a little bit of perfectionism can be good!” Like when it comes to the written word — I can go in, fix the misspellings, put commas where they belong. Audrey: Yeah, and you enjoy it — and you’re good at it. Carolyn: Exactly. That was a big deal for me. Audrey: That’s awesome. So what about the concept of principles? That’s a pretty heavy focus in the program. Does that mean something different to you now than it did when you started? And if so, what’s the difference — and what difference has it made? Carolyn: When I read something now, I’m looking for the underlying principles. When I watch a movie, I ask, “What are the underlying principles? What are they saying? What’s their worldview?” It’s totally helped me become a more principled, critical thinker — to dissect what people are saying, understand where their fallacies or flaws are. I can recognize, “That’s not based on truth. That’s not based on natural law.” Audrey: So you feel more discerning — more grounded in principles of truth. Carolyn: Yes. More discerning. Audrey: And what difference do those principles make in your life? You think differently, you discern better — but how is that helpful day-to-day? Carolyn: Because I’m able to align my life more closely with true principles instead of misbeliefs that make me less happy and less successful. Audrey: Can you think of an example of one of those? Carolyn: Hmm, not off the top of my head — but I’d go back to that idea that I didn’t recognize I saw myself as a victim. Audrey: Yeah. Carolyn: And that it was better to create than to blame or persecute. Audrey: Yeah. Carolyn: That shift was everything. Audrey: So why is it important to be principle-centered in your mind? If somebody were to ask you, “Why should I even bother learning principles? Who cares?” — what would you say? Carolyn: Because there is truth — and there are consequences to living according to truth or not. You can’t escape that. Giving lip service won’t change it. If you say something that’s not true is true, it doesn’t matter that you say it — it’s still not true, and it won’t lead you to goodness or happiness. Audrey: Yeah. Oh, that’s a great way to say it. What was one of your favorite books in the program? Carolyn: Alcoholics Anonymous. Audrey: Oh wow! Why? I mean, I love that book, but what did you love about it? Carolyn: I just didn’t expect it to be so applicable to me. Audrey: Yeah. Carolyn: Everyone should read it. It should be required reading. Audrey: Yes — for all people. I totally agree. Carolyn: I’ve never been truly addicted to a substance — no alcohol, drugs, anything like that. But I have reacted to fear. I have been selfish. I’ve had those same thought processes that could lead me down the path of addiction. And I have my little “mini addictions” that could be cured by applying the truths in that book. Audrey: Yeah. Yeah, I love that one so much. Okay — a couple last things. What about the concept of mission? You mentioned earlier that these women care about being mothers and about mission. What does that concept mean to you, and why does it matter in your life? Carolyn: Well, I love the idea that being a mother is a mission. I truly felt that. To me, being a mother was the pinnacle of my life. And now I’m a grandmother — so it continues, but it’s not the same. Audrey: Yeah. Carolyn: But the idea that I can make a difference in the world is super important to me — that my strengths matter. Because we also did StrengthsFinder in the program, and that was very helpful. I discovered I had strengths I didn’t realize not everyone had, for example. Audrey: Yeah. Carolyn: Sometimes things come so easily to you that you don’t even realize they’re hard for other people. Audrey: You think everyone’s like that. Carolyn: Exactly. So that was great for self-discovery. Now I can’t remember what we were talking about! Audrey: Mission — and why it’s important. Carolyn: Oh right, yes! So just realizing that my strengths can be used for good purposes — that’s huge. I’ve been reaching out and doing more in my community. I recently worked with a Senate candidate in our state. Audrey: Wow. Carolyn: Yeah. I just feel more secure in the gifts I have and that I can offer them when people need them. I’m doing more things. As much as, honestly, I’d like to sit and watch Netflix all the time — I feel that pull, I’m not going to lie — but that’s not how I want to spend my life.   Audrey: Yeah. Carolyn: I don’t want to look back at decades of Netflix. Like, yeah, I really want more than that out of life. So to feel like I have a mission—there are things, there are people I can reach, causes I can help. One of my specific loves is just the love of our country and the love of our Constitution. Audrey: Yeah. Carolyn: And while I think a lot of Americans have that, I’ve always kind of had a strong bend that way. I tend to enter the political spectrum because I don’t think I would make a good candidate myself, but I can be a great support person. Audrey: Yeah. Carolyn: And I’ve been a teacher that teaches about the Constitution and things like that. I’m passionate about that. I don’t see myself ever being world-famous, but I think I’m making a difference. Audrey: Yeah, you’re in there. Carolyn: Yeah. And if we all do that, the world is a much better place. Audrey: I love how you said that. It sounds to me like one of the things you’re expressing is that you feel more—maybe confident? I’m not exactly sure if that’s the right word. Carolyn: Yeah, maybe that’s a good word. Audrey: More self-aware. More settled into yourself. More comfortable with yourself. Carolyn: Yes. Audrey: Yeah, it’s an interesting process that I’ve watched with a lot of moms. It’s like a kind of humble confidence. It’s, “I’m very aware of where I’m not strong, but it’s okay for me not to be strong there because I know where I am strong. I know what I can give, and I don’t need to be able to give everything.” Carolyn: Yes. Audrey: “I can just tell these few things.” And so you can be honest with yourself and other people about what your limits are, but because you know you genuinely have something of value to give, you can show up and do that with a little more— Carolyn: Yeah. Audrey: —enthusiasm. Carolyn: Totally, totally well said. Yep. Audrey: Yeah, that’s so awesome. And it all goes back to the story I always tell about being in that class with those women, my friends, and them going up to the front with those roses and not being able to say anything good about themselves. Just feeling like—how can we build something that a woman walks away from… I mean, I would say that makes me feel so grateful and humbled that the program came together in a way that creates that outcome for so many women, because that’s ultimately what I want. I didn’t want them to feel like they were superwoman and could do it all and be it all. And I feel like, with all our little “I can do anything, I can be anything, follow your dreams” kind of cultural… Carolyn: Cultural selfishness. Audrey: Yeah, little—I mean, I don’t know if I’d call them lies, but they’re definitely little beliefs we throw out there. People internalize those. And this whole thing—I mean, when I was younger, maybe it’s just because I wasn’t a grown woman yet, but I don’t remember so much of this talk about “I’m not enough” and “How can I be enough?” I feel like that’s really grown, and I do think it’s attacking women—especially mothers. Which is why, I mean, lots of women do the program who aren’t necessarily mothers, but specifically for mothers—because I feel like they’re kind of beat up. Like the culture doesn’t value what you’re saying. You’re proud of being a mom. That was the pinnacle of your life mission. I feel the exact same way. You know, there’s this picture my brother took—he’s a professional photographer—of me holding one of my little girls at a family wedding. And I told Blaine, “That’s what I want on the front of my funeral program.” Because I want to be remembered as a mom. Carolyn: Mm-hmm. Audrey: And I know many incredible women who feel that way. But the world tells them that’s not noble enough, that’s not worthy enough of them or their lives. And those who have done it and tried to do it well know it called for the best that was in them. It sculpted their character more than anything else. And so for them to not feel proud of that—to feel like they’ve got to lose their personality or can’t do anything good—that’s so sad. It’s just that tricky dance our culture struggles with now: how do I be a mom and find fulfillment, and be proud of that, but also not feel like that means I don’t exist as a separate entity too, and there’s nothing for me as an individual? Just finding that balance. Carolyn: Yeah, that is a tricky balance. Audrey: Yeah. Carolyn: Yeah. Mothers are just so critical to society. Audrey: Yeah. Carolyn: As are fathers. But it’s making me think—so many times I’ve said, “Well, I’m just a mom.” Audrey: No. No. Carolyn: Yep. Audrey: Yeah. Carolyn: You feel a little apologetic, like you’re just… yeah, you’re in the trenches. There’s no glory. Audrey: Yeah. Carolyn: Yeah. Audrey: Well, that’s exciting to know that your daughter’s doing the program too, and hopefully it’s beneficial to her and her family as well. What is one thing, as we finish up, that you would like to tell someone who’s thinking about doing the program—or maybe thinking about putting their teen in the teen program—or who’s stuck in the middle of it and struggling to finish out? Any words of wisdom or advice for them? Carolyn: Well, I mean, definitely do it. Definitely stick with it. To me, if someone’s stuck, that means they could use a discussion group or—yeah—they need to reach out to the community. I think that would do the trick. Audrey: Yeah. Carolyn: For anyone else, I guess I can just give my testimonial that it’s a well-curated program. I really appreciate that you found the best stuff. And with some books, it was nice that we didn’t read the whole thing—we just read selections. I really appreciated that you picked the best of everything. I know there are a lot of resources out there, so it was really nice to have them selected. I think you did a very, very excellent job picking what would really help us learn and change. The earlier in your life that you can be grounded on truth and principles—and correct any misbeliefs you’ve already picked up as a young person—the better. Audrey: Yeah. Carolyn: Getting on more firm grounding will change the trajectory of your life. And I don’t care what age you are. I’m 60. I’m old. Audrey: You’ve got a lot of life left! Carolyn: Yeah. Audrey: Well, thank you, Carolyn. Carolyn: Thank you for Mission Driven Mom Academy. Audrey: You’re welcome. I’m glad to know it’s had such a positive impact in your life and your family’s life. Hopefully, for those wondering whether this is for them, this has answered some of their questions and concerns. I hope it encourages you to get in there—grab a friend, do it together, take your time, apply the principles as you go. I think you’ll find over time that—while there are some pretty dramatic testimonials—there are also a lot of women saying, “My life is richer. It’s fuller. I’m more confident. I’m more settled in myself. I feel better able to navigate life and care for myself and love myself properly.” And I’m really, really grateful that’s been their experience. Carolyn: That did remind me of one more thing—and that is, just take it in bite-sized pieces. There’s no rush. You want enough of a challenge, but I just fit it into the cracks of my life. I’d think, “Oh, I have half an hour here, I’ll grab that book, I’ll take it to the doctor’s office,” whatever. Rarely did I have a set time to sit down and do it. Probably like, I don’t know, 30 pages a week, I’d say. And there are lots of videos—you can just watch or listen to them. They’re in an app now, so they’re easy to consume while you’re driving. Audrey: Yeah. Carolyn: So just pace yourself—enough to be a challenge, but not too much to be overwhelming. Audrey: Yeah. All right, well thank you so much. Of course, if this has been helpful, please pass it along, subscribe, like, review—all that good stuff. Thanks for joining us. See you next time.      

Get Your 3 FREE Chapters from The Mission Driven Life: Discover and Fulfill Your Unique Contribution to the World: https://www.themissiondrivenmom.com/. For years, every time Audrey spoke somewhere, no matter the topic, people would approach her afterward and tell her that she had inspired them to read more, "But," they wanted to know, "what should I read?" This podcast has the answer! If you're someone who wants to be a lifelong learner and just isn't sure where to start. Or if you want to read more enriching books but don't know how to choose. Or you would love to read books to your children, but don't know how to pick the best ones. Or you wish you could discuss good books with your friends but have no idea what you should be looking for...Audrey is here to help! With a few simple guidelines, you will be far more confident in choosing the right things to read, books which can enrich your life, and help you lift others.  If you want to level up your reading, take a listen! _________________________________ PODCAST TRANSCRIPT (AI Generated)  Welcome to the Mission-Driven Mom podcast. This podcast is for moms just like you—moms who want to learn how to glorify God by finding and embracing true principles, discovering and developing your greatest gifts, and using them to serve your family and community. Jordan Peterson once said something that really encapsulates the “why” behind what we’re going to talk about for a few minutes today: “We’re always deciding, with every choice we make, whether we are going to do good or harm—by action or by inaction. Whether we should do good, or harm, or nothing at all. I think that depends, to some degree, on who we think we are and what we believe we’re capable of. It seems to me that the humanities, when they’re properly taught, are the study of who we could be as individuals. And we need to know that, because otherwise, we’ll be much less than we are—and could be. And that’s not a trivial problem.” That really struck me. All throughout the day, every day, we’re called upon to make micro-decisions and macro-decisions. Those decisions affect us, they affect the people around us, and they reflect the kind of person we’ve become. This is why the ancients—and really, all the way up until maybe the last hundred years or so—the greatest thinkers and leaders constantly talked about virtue. Virtue was considered the primary purpose of being human. That was the ultimate goal. That was the end game. We are the only creatures we know of who have self-consciousness, self-awareness, and the capacity for self-improvement. Because we have that capacity, it’s incumbent upon us to develop it—to become the most virtuous humans we can be. This reminds me of something John Quincy Adams wrote to his son while he was serving as an ambassador to Russia. His son was only about 10 or 11 years old at the time. In his letter, Adams wrote something like this: “You boys brag a lot about how many books you’ve read. But those books are of no benefit to you if they don’t make you wiser and more virtuous. What’s the point of plowing through a stack of books if they haven’t changed you?” That’s the essence of what I’m all about: truth that changes you. Truth that makes you free. And it connects beautifully with what Jordan Peterson was saying—that the humanities are really the study of being human and of striving to be the best humans we can be. This is why I’m such an advocate for lifelong learning. When we seek truth and apply it, not only do we gain tools for solving the problems we face, but we also grow in virtue. Lifelong learning develops our character, shows us over and over again the kind of person we could become, and motivates us to keep striving. I talked recently in another video podcast about Benjamin Franklin’s book club and the impact it had. It illustrates this same principle: we often don’t realize how much good can come simply from interacting with the truly great—the kind of “great” that is genuinely virtuous and has a profoundly positive influence on the world. So today I want to focus on something that might seem a little trivial at first glance: how to choose books—whether for yourself, your children, or a book club. I am a huge proponent of book clubs and group learning because discussion is so powerful. In future podcasts, I’ll share more about why discussion matters so much—how it changes the way we think, the way we live, and the way we apply truth. If you follow me at all, you know I teach the five types of questions, how to lead quality discussions, how to look for themes, how to mark your book, and most importantly, how to identify principles. But here’s the thing: none of those skills matter if you choose the wrong books. The wrong readings will derail your efforts before you even begin. Now, when it comes to book clubs, many follow a “democratic” method—everyone takes turns choosing a book and leading the discussion. The challenge is that members have widely varying backgrounds, skills, and levels of preparation. I’ve seen book clubs where members hadn’t even read the book they chose! That kind of inconsistency creates an environment where participants don’t know what to expect—whether the reading will be worthwhile, whether the discussion will be meaningful, or whether someone will simply hijack the conversation. And when that happens, people lose motivation. But book clubs—done right—are one of the best ways to continue lifelong learning. Having a deadline motivates you to actually read, and discussing the material with others deepens your understanding. In my own book club with my sister and some friends, we use these principles. We eat, we laugh, we learn—and the discussions are rich and life-giving. So how do you choose books that will make that possible? I want to give you three simple but important tools for discerning which books to read—whether you’re teaching a class, parenting your children, or running a book club. These three suggestions can make all the difference in your experience. In fact, I once wrote about this, and I’d like to share a little story from that piece—an experience I had while attending a friend’s book club… So I went to this book club—it consisted of neighbors who had been meeting regularly for many years. Out of the 12 women who attended, about half had finished the book for that month. Some had started it, and a couple had even refused to purchase or read it at all. As you can imagine, this made it difficult to have a meaningful discussion. When they did talk about the book, the conversation felt flat—just sharing a favorite part, a quote, or a brief comment. But when they shifted to discussing their personal struggles with spouses, children, friends, or work, the conversation suddenly came alive. And this is my point: pair the two. Let the things you’re reading inform your real-life experiences. My YouTube channel used to be called Education for Real Life because that’s exactly what true education is supposed to provide—skills for living. That’s what we want to resurrect. Now, I personally didn’t say much during that discussion, but when I sensed they were winding down, I asked a few questions. Honestly, I wanted to evaluate this book club as a kind of test case for my theories about book clubs. I asked, “How do you choose the books you’ll read?” One woman replied, “Everyone gets a turn on a rotating schedule.” That’s how most book clubs operate. I followed up: “Had anyone here read this book before it was recommended?” The answer: “No.” “Then how did you come to choose it?” I asked. “It was recommended to one of the members by a friend.” Finally, I asked, “Will any of you ever read this book again?” And here’s what shocked me: even the staunchest defenders of the book—the women who had purchased it, read the whole thing, and engaged in the discussion—all answered no. Not one woman there thought the book was worth reading again. “Really?” I asked, genuinely surprised. “Why not?” One woman’s answer explained the problem perfectly. She said, “There just aren’t very many books worth reading more than once. Maybe a couple hundred years ago that was different, but now we’re inundated with information. Honestly, if you look at how many books are published every year, very few are worth a second read.” Now, while I know many people feel this way, her comment still surprised me—because I own many books that I believe are absolutely worth reading again and again. For me, her perspective felt a little tragic. Another woman added, “Yeah, I’ve only read a couple of books twice in my whole life.” Then something fascinating happened. A woman sitting next to me—one of the members who hadn’t purchased or read the book that month—spoke up. She said, “I read The Help three times this past year. We read it for group several months ago, and when I finished it, I went right home and read it again. Then I read it a third time.” I asked her, “Why three times?” She replied, “Because it made me want to be better.” That’s the key. That’s the power of choosing the right books. This is why I’m doing this series on book clubs—and why I’m releasing this one as a podcast. I want you to have these tools. Because what most people think they want in their book clubs are books that are simply entertaining. But the books that truly enrich the club—the ones that bless the lives of those who attend, and keep them motivated to come back—are the books that are enriching. Now, enriching books can certainly be entertaining. But often, entertaining books are not enriching. Great books are both. That’s the goal. Think of it like food. We think we want candy—but what we really need, what nourishes us, are vegetables. And just like vegetables, great books can both taste wonderful and nourish us at the same time. That’s the kind of reading we want. Here’s the point: some things are “the best” by my standards, and some by your standards. But some things are truly the best by history’s standards. Certain books, music, and art outlast the popularity of their day. They endure not just their generation, but even centuries, because they speak universally to humankind. Personally, I don’t have a lot of extra time to read for book club. If I’m going to invest my time, I want it to be worthwhile. That doesn’t mean I want to cozy up with Moby-Dick tonight, but it does mean there are so many incredible works we could be reading and discussing—works that could truly change how we think and live. Unfortunately, most book clubs spend their time on easy-to-read, modern novels. And that’s a tragedy, because the same time could be spent on books that are far more meaningful. Not only are better readings richer in content, they’re actually more fun to discuss. So when I say “classics,” I don’t just mean old books. I mean any reading that: Contains timeless truth we can learn from again and again. Reflects natural consequences and honors natural law. Teaches true human nature. Inspires us to be our best selves. And here’s the secret: one of the biggest problems in our culture today is the absence of this kind of reading. If our schools were filled with the right kinds of books, we would be producing a different kind of man and woman—and, ultimately, a different kind of culture. The Founding generation understood this. After the Constitution was ratified, the leaders said, in essence: “We’ve established a free nation. Now we must educate the people to remain free.” Education wasn’t just about literacy—it was about forming character, cultivating virtue, and preparing citizens to perpetuate liberty. So if you didn’t receive that kind of education in school—and I didn’t—get it for yourself. And then pass it on to your family. That brings me to the first principle in choosing what to read for lifelong learning—whether it’s for your family, your children, or your book club: Stick with the original. Let me give you an example. Several years ago, I was doing research for one of my classes. I had to visit a local private school, where I listened to a lecture on Christopher Columbus. It was part of their American history studies. At the time, there was a lot of buzz in the country about putting Columbus “on trial” in classrooms and finding him guilty of heinous crimes. That narrative is still circulating today—though it has only intensified… I’ve written and spoken elsewhere about this, but I believe what we’ve done to Christopher Columbus is truly tragic. When I was young—50 years ago—we admired Columbus. But in the 1990s and early 2000s, suddenly he was despised. I watched that shift happen in my own lifetime, and it felt bizarre. I couldn’t figure out why it had changed so drastically, and I thought about it a lot. So when I was working on this research project and heard a speaker lecture about Columbus, my interest was piqued. He shared stories I’d never heard before, and I was fascinated. But what struck me most wasn’t so much what he said about Columbus—it was that he repeatedly referenced Columbus’s own journal. By this point, I had already realized that the private university I had attended as a young adult had not given me nearly enough exposure to original sources. But that lecture, combined with what I was seeing in the news, helped me understand the importance of going directly to the source on a whole new level. I went home, typed “Columbus’s journal” into Google, and there it was. In just a few pages, I could read for myself who Columbus was, what he did, and—most importantly—how he felt about his life and decisions. I could learn about Columbus from Columbus. It was incredibly liberating and exhilarating. No more relying on someone else’s opinion—I could find out for myself. I hadn’t done this earlier in my life simply because I didn’t realize I could or even should. Others don’t do it because they don’t know how, or they feel intimidated. Many people believe older writings are too difficult to understand. But that simply isn’t true. Yes, Shakespeare can be challenging, and yes, you may need to read Plato’s Republic or Allegory of the Cave a few times to fully grasp it. But most older writings—letters, treatises, documents, even Shakespeare—have been translated into modern English. You can start there. Columbus’s journal was not hard to read. Neither are many of the original sources I now recommend: the letters of John and Abigail Adams, Cicero’s speeches, Marcus Aurelius’s Meditations. They’re not as easy as a modern novel or a children’s classic, but they’re far more accessible than most people assume. Even Shakespeare, once you get familiar with the plot and take a little time, can not only be understood but thoroughly enjoyed. So here’s the first principle when choosing what to read for yourself, your family, or your book club: 1. Go to the original. Most of our public-school textbooks are three, four, or even five steps removed from the original. Someone read something, who read something else, who read something else, and then a committee of scholars compiled it. Along the way, they picked and chose based on their worldview, values, and judgments of what was “important.” But that doesn’t necessarily make you a more virtuous person. It might not help you discover who you really are. It might not benefit your life. So whenever you can, go straight to the source. Learn from Columbus, from Plato, from Abigail Adams—directly. 2. Mix it up. Don’t read only novels. Don’t read only nonfiction. Don’t read only self-help. Expose yourself—and your book club—to all kinds of reading. I’ve included a bullet list in the description to give you some ideas, but here’s just a sampling of the kinds of genres you can explore: Plays Poetry Speeches Essays Children’s novels Fairy tales Treatises Histories Autobiographies Historical fiction Scientific studies Short stories Self-help Manifestos Documents “Great Books” excerpts Letters Court case summaries Magazine articles   You see, most book clubs fall into monotony because they read almost exclusively modern novels. That’s largely because these are the books friends recommend, or because they feel easy and entertaining. People think that’s what they want—but in reality, those books don’t usually provide a deeply enriching experience. Modern novels do have their place. But they should be just one resource among many. Leaders who haven’t been exposed to other types of readings simply don’t know what’s available. But if they did, their groups would have far more enjoyable reading experiences and much more stimulating discussions. One way to start mixing it up is to choose a subject or theme and explore it across genres. For example, say you want to study Franklin D. Roosevelt, or France, or leadership. Search your library or the internet for speeches, essays, novels, and even scientific studies on that topic. Another way is to use the internet to search for “10 best” lists in various genres. Spend a little time comparing lists, and you’ll quickly find consensus about the true greats in each field. Then dedicate a year to reading across those genres—perhaps speeches one month, letters the next, short stories after that, and so on. And don’t stop with just the text! Look at maps and timelines while you read. Learn about the time period, see where events took place, and pull up photos of what those places look like today. Doing this will open up a whole new world of learning—and make reading not only more meaningful, but also more fun. Super-duper fun—and your book club becomes a little classroom. So, the first principle is: go to the original. Stick with the original. The second one is: mix it up. And the third is: start simple. As you learn more about the kinds of questions and reading skills I teach (or learn from others as well), you’ll come to see that in preparing for a great discussion, it’s far more important how you read than how much you read. Plato’s Allegory of the Cave is just a page long, and I’ve had so many discussions about it that have gone in a million different directions. That’s the power of rich material. It’s not about the volume—it’s about the depth. And that’s also why you can actually get everyone to do the reading and come prepared. Because if it’s just one or two poems, or a short selection, people can actually engage. And those conversations can be incredible. Now, many book clubs feel like they have to read an entire book every month. I want to say something about that. You’ve probably had it drilled into you—like I did—that you have to finish everything you start. Finish the book. Finish the assignment. But here’s the truth: you do not have to finish. You can read, and then stop when it’s no longer enriching for you. That said, as a book club leader—or even just for your own enrichment—you can choose shorter readings that people will finish, and then you can go back to them over and over again. Your group can read as much or as little as you’d like. Just as you can use all different types of readings, you can also help your group grow in their capacity to read more effectively by starting simple. Maybe you spend a few months, or even a couple of years, reading easier books while practicing your reading and discussion skills. The best way to do this is by choosing readings that are relatively easy to understand but that still offer rich themes and principles to explore. Classic children’s literature, selections from self-help books, poetry, excerpts from great books, or even fairytales are wonderful for this. They’re short and approachable, but still allow for thoughtful reflection. When you’re starting simple, choose readings that are either short and a little challenging—like a few pages from a great book, a couple of poems, or a document you can read multiple times and ponder—or easy and accessible, like children’s literature, a magazine article, or a play you can finish in a month. This gives you time to go slowly, think deeply, and really understand what you’re reading. This approach also helps keep things fresh by rotating through different types of readings, while allowing your group’s reading and comprehension skills to grow. Eventually, you’ll be ready and even excited to tackle a more difficult classic. And while it may feel like that day will never come, I promise you—it will. I’ve seen it happen with hundreds, probably thousands, of students and groups. I’ve had seven or eight hundred people just in the Mission Academy alone, and every time, when they follow this path, their capacity grows. Their love for learning deepens. And soon, they find themselves reading Cicero, Blackstone, Plato—just little pieces at a time—and applying the principles they discover. It’s exhilarating. It’s fulfilling. And I can’t express enough how passionate I am about this path. So the big “why” behind all of this is simple: so you can know who you are. So you can experience the joy of self-discovery, develop your character, and become a more virtuous person. By sticking with the original, mixing it up, and starting simple, you can do that. And what’s so wonderful about these tools is that they’re just a small part of what we call the MDM Way. This is our unique educational approach. It takes you to original sources. It introduces you to many different genres. It focuses on Socratic discussion and on learning by expressing your ideas. It’s deeply principle-based. And all of these good educational practices are built into everything we do. The MDM Way is a beautiful model for the kind of education we can be giving ourselves right now, in our own lives. If you join us in the MDM Academy, you’ll gain access to these tools and many more. You’ll be mentored as you walk through the content with us, and we’ll provide the resources you need. But even outside the Academy, you can begin today. Pick up a quality reading from an original source. Study it carefully. Ask yourself great questions. Ask the author questions. Compare it to your scriptures. And then strive to live the truths you discover. We’ve talked today about how this applies to book clubs, but it’s just as true for your family, for your personal enrichment, and for any area of life where you want to keep learning and growing. So thank you so much for joining me today. I hope you’ll take these simple tools to heart—choosing a variety of readings, using good study skills, and engaging in the adventure of lifelong learning. It’s such a tremendous source of joy, and so many people miss out on it. If this was valuable to you, please share it with a friend and leave us a review. Thanks again for being here—and I’ll see you next time.  

What a privilege to interview Dr. James Lindsay—bestselling author, guest on shows such as Joe Rogan and Jordan Peterson, professional advisor on multiple court cases, and so much more! As an expert on Critical Race Theory and modern culture, James has so much to offer our world and our moms. In this conversation we get into James’ story, how he got to where he is today, the kind of work he does, and how he helps so many understand our crazy world. With specific discussions spanning cultural dynamics, critical race theory, postmodernism, communism, and the nature of reality and truth, this interview gets a bit heavy in a few places. But stay with us to the end where James gives some beautiful advice to parents engaged in the struggle, validating the importance of the daily work we do, and encouraging us along the path. Please share your questions and insights with us via email at: [email protected] And share this with a friend who needs encouragement in their parenting! Get your 3 FREE chapters of The Mission Driven Life: Discover and Fulfill Your Unique Contribution to the World: https://www.themissiondrivenmom.com/ _____________________ TRANSCRIPT (AI Generated) Welcome back. I'm Audrey Rindlisbacher, author of the Mission Driven Life and founder of the Mission Driven Mom. Today is a really special treat talking to James Lindsay. He's unbelievably credentialed and popular and has done so much good to help us understand our culture. Before we get into that interview, I want you to know that if you're new to this podcast, I would recommend that you keep up with the current, episodes, but also head back to the beginning and listen to some of those first podcasts.   You'll get a deep dive into the 7 Laws of Life Mission, which is what everything we do here hovers around that framework and those laws and principles. And then you'll also hear a lot of mission-driven stories of great men and women who have lived those laws and had huge positive impact in the world.   I also wanna encourage you to go get your free copy of the audio book of the Mission-Driven Life. Discover and fulfill your unique contribution to the world over at the mission driven mom.com. You can grab that. It won't be available forever, so make sure that you head over there to get your free copy of that.   And if this podcast is of benefit to you, please leave a review and pass it on. That helps us share the word about truth and principles.   This interview with James Lindsay was incredible. We talked all about what critical race theory is, why it matters to us as parents. He gave some really good advice to parents and what they should be doing with their children right now. We talked about truth and reality and the natural law. We talked about his story and experience of becoming the man that he's become and why he does what he does.   So enjoy this interview with James Lindsay.   Alright, welcome back to the podcast. We have an incredible treat today. I don't know how it happened, but James Lindsay has graciously agreed to talk to me today and to share some of his incredible wisdom and scholarship that is so needed in the world. I'm gonna give you a little bit of his professional bio.   Some of my takes on who he is, why I listen to him, why I trust him, and then we'll get into some of his experiences with some questions. So first of all I know you American born Author, mathematician. You got your PhD from the University of Tennessee in mathematics. And that's incredible. So I don't even know the level of intelligence that's required to do that.   On his bio it says professional troublemaker, which is actually true. He's written six books spanning a range of subjects including religion, philosophy of science, postmodern theory. He's a leading expert on critical race theory, and I have learned a lot from him on that. And that leads him to reject it completely.   The founder of New Discourses, and we got to meet in person. When I went to his event just a few weeks ago here in Dallas, it was phenomenal. Encourage anyone and everyone to attend in in their future opportunities. And you've got a book going right now, Cynical Theories :How Activist Scholarship Made Everything About Race, Gender, and Identity, and Why This Harms Everybody.   And that one's getting translated in 15 languages. Is that one already out, James? Yeah, that one came actually.   And that came out. That's actually, I don't know why it's worded that way. I know I just pointed you. So just mea culpa, I just told Go read the bio. That's a little bit dated on my website.   Yeah. 'Cause I'm very like weird about writing my own bios. Yeah. And as it turns out that the book came out in the summer of 2020 it was like, oh, okay. Kind of first major book about woke stuff and it is now in 30 languages and it's sold 500,000 copies. So it's it's the entry point, especially if I leave the country.   , If I leave the country, that is the book people know me for. Like I was in New Zealand. Yeah. And people were bringing it up to sign. I went to Belgium and people brought it to me and I haven't even seen most of the foreign language copies. They have different covers. They have completely different That's awesome.   And one people are bringing up copies of it that I've never seen, when foreign languages having me sign it and so it's all over the world. Yeah. It's exciting. But yeah's awesome. Yeah. Awesome. I think it like 30 languages now.   Awesome. That's awesome. I, that's the one I need to grab then.   I've been consuming all of that information from you via podcast and interviews and things like that. That would be great to grab. I just have the Marx notification of education is the one I've got. And then course you've been on all the podcasts. Jordan Peterson, Joe Rogan, all the people. I don't even know what the list is or all the people, but everybody knows you.   I've been like every podcast.   Yeah, I thi everyone so amazed and grateful for you to come today. What I can say from my own personal experience with Dr. Lindsay is that I don't even remember when I first stumbled across you. It's probably been two or three years., I don't know if it was from an interview that I saw or my sister sent it to me, but my sister and I have been exchanging another girlfriend.   Here's another Lindsay podcast, and we exchange 'em when we discuss 'em, which has been awesome. But one of the reasons why I was immediately like on board, I guess with what you talk about is because, I didn't even know about classical liberal education. I had no experience with ancient philosophy or any of that until I was married and had a couple kids. I found it inadvertently in a small liberal arts college that was nearby. And luckily I signed up and made it all the way through a master's degree. And so I have the very introductory rudiments of an okay. Decent education.   It's how I feel about it. I'm grateful for it. But what that meant was that when you used certain references and you talked about certain people, I knew what you were talking about and I feel like I feel really blessed. 'cause I feel like that gave me an edge that helped me know you knew what you were talking about because there's so many names that people could drop and if you had no frame of reference for when they lived, who they were, what their worldview was, any of that, it would be hard to know.   That's a real legitimate problem in the current culture. How do I even know who to listen to? Because I don't even know, but I especially had become very fascinated with communism and Marxism and had read and studied much about what went on in especially Russia, especially China.   And so I knew when you got in, especially the Marxist stuff, was, oh my gosh so good and really spoke to me. And I was like, and then you saw, help me see layers of it that I hadn't seen before. And so I know you do your homework. I know you know what you're talking about. Because my education luckily gave me enough information to be able to identify that.   So I'm really, really grateful for that. Grateful for all the things that you've taught me so far, what you've keyed me into, what I should be aware of,. How to understand the culture a little bit better. Postmodernism was just a nut I couldn't crack for so long. I would read books on it. I would try to, I would try to read the guys, try and, it's so hard.   So I'm so grateful for some handholding where stuff like that is concerned. I mentioned to you before we got on, we've got three levels in our academy. That third level is, a very high level introduction to just, there are these worldviews and these are some key things they teach, and postmodernism is in there. Anyway, so that's why I wanted to talk to you. That's why I wanted you on this podcast. That's why I think you're an important voice in the culture and hope that. All of the listeners to our show will get more involved in what you do. Read your books, watch your stuff.   Let's begin at the beginning, and talk about you before the storm began. I know you got this PhD. We were talking for a minute about some of the reasons that you didn't pursue all the way into academia and working there. But give us a little bit more about why did leave academia after that degree and why you were frustrated with what was going on in academia, and then segue into how you got started doing what you do now.   I know that there's article submissions. I've seen some, watched you talk about all of that stuff. And I bet a lot of our listeners don't know about that. So tell us that story.   This story can be very long. My, history doesn't make sense except when you've lived it and then it all makes sense.   It just was the natural thing to do. Yeah. Like you said, I got a PhD in math.   Yeah.   I finished that in 2010. I have a bachelor's degree in physics. My master's is in math in between. And so I introduced that. So I was in college effectively from fall of 1997 until spring of 2010. Mm-hmm. Which is a long time to be in college.   And all of it was either physics, which is a hard, pure science. Yeah. Or mathematics, which is like in some sense even more rarefied in some sense. And I bring that up because the timeframe ending in 20 10, 97 to 2010, and then the subject matter. I just want people to understand like I did not deal with woke in college.   Like I get that it was probably happening in the humanities departments. Sure. I know it was happening in the education departments and I was too busy looking down my nose at every other department regardless, because every physicist looks down at every other department, including mathematicians and every mathematician looks down at every other department, including physicists.   And the only people who look down on both math and physics are philosophers and possibly engineers who think nobody's practical. I had no exposure.. A lot of people go to college and so they know, you have to take all these classes, then you have your major, they don't know what grad school's like a lot of times, unless they've been, your entire school is your major.   There is no other class. Like, people talk to me all the time. Oh wow. When were you at ut? And I tell 'em the years and they're like, wow, did you know so and so in the history department? I'm like, that's not in the math building.   Yeah.   I literally only went to other buildings when for some reason there wasn't enough room in the math building to have the class.   Yeah.   That was a math class anyway.   Yeah.   That's the only reason I ever left the building. My entire University of Tennessee experience could really be summarized as being one building. So, I say that because it's all immersive. Woke wasn't a thing. So a lot of people think, wow, James, I get this.   I sometimes, I just don't try to correct people. It's just not worth it.   Yeah.   But people are like, James saw the woke coming early. No, I didn't. I just saw university bureaucracy is what I saw. Yeah. I saw the softening of standards to keep students in and paying tuition and I didn't wanna be a part of it.   I had the faculty meetings where they were instructing us in the classes below a certain level that are not, within a math major or a science major. Just pass people find ways, give 'em extra credit, make it easier. Do whatever you have to do. At one point they, they said that if you wanna fail more than one student, you need to be able to justify why.   Come bring evidence to the dean. And I was like,   that's no scoring little league.   Yeah, and I get it because it was like   everyone gets a trophy.   It was for the math class that only people who will do zero more math ever in anything they do. It's that class. Yeah. But it's so it doesn't, it's it's literally like the university just waving the white flag and saying, we know it's pointless to make you study math when you're not gonna do it.   But I objected to this kind of on a principled level. Like I had to learn US history, which I didn't have that much. I'm glad I learned it now, but at the time, 18, 19 years old, I'm like, I'm a physics major. Why the hell do I have to learn history? I don't wanna learn that. I had to suffer through that.   I had to do you can suck it up and pass math class kids. You're getting a college degree, right? Yeah. You can show some mathematical reasoning. You should be able to, it should need something, add fractions or something. Yeah. And so anyways, it was a bureaucracy and this. This tendency I didn't know the, what it was at the time, but it was before I started taking on the woke stuff that I realized it was that the guiding principle of the university had become student retention.   The goal was just to keep paying customers in the door, and I was. Sickened by this, and I didn't want to continue. As we were talking about before we started, my family was such that my step kids were about to start high school when I graduated, and it would've been like, Hey, kids who wants to get dragged all over the country, to go to a bunch of different high schools because I have to do postdocs.   Yeah. And nobody wants that. And that was a little bit more to tip me over the edge. So I left the university after I finished my PhD. I didn't look back. I, to this day, people sometimes ask me if I would consider being a teacher in a institution again. And I'm like, Nope. Absolutely not.   The bureaucracy's a disaster. The whole system is corrupt. I don't want, it's not corrupt in some like dirty political corruption way necessarily. It's just gross. I don't want any part of this. Yeah. Like this, if the university is not geared toward basically making like academic ninjas. Like I'm not interested like I want high level stuff here.   I think I have these controversial opinions that our society lied to our young people. Most people should not go to college. They should have done other things. It was not the guarantor of a good job. Yeah. We ended up with this. It sometimes, was it Peter Turchin? Is that his name? Who called it Elite Overproduction?   We have all these basically uppity people who got degrees who can't go work like a normal job now 'cause they're too good for that. But they're not actually skilled to fit anywhere in the economy either. The, they have a useless skill like gender studies or they have a, an oversaturated skill like veterinary medicine.   Which nothing wrong with veterinary medicine, especially if you wanna work on large animals, but currently, last I heard, vet schools are producing 11 times more vets than the economy can absorb.   Oh, wow. So   you can just imagine what the problem is there. Right. And there's all kinds of interesting conversations we could have about, should academic advising at university, should they be on the hook?   What are good ways to put them on the hook for mis advising students into bad sectors of the economy, basically. But that's a different discussion. I decided to get outta this. At any rate, yeah. So I leave the university and I had to figure out something to do. Yeah. And my wife was a massage therapist.   This is a weird story, James. You were a massage therapist from 2010 to 2020 of all things with a PhD in math. Yes. Yep. I was, and there are actually, it's like my story doesn't make any sense unless you lived it. I can say my wife was a massage therapist, which is true. And encouraged me to join the business with her and take some of her overflow and then build my own clientele and we'd have something going on and I could work, here with her in the studio or whatever.   Cool. That's a thing. But I had some lead over production there. I'm like, I have a PhD. Like what? Massage. Cool. Yeah. What?   Yeah.   But for the fact that I used to be a fighter I still can, but I used to like actually get in like rings and fight. Right? Oh, wow. I trained martial arts for a long time.   Uhhuh, I used to fight in like real competitions and things. And one day I was at, when I was in my early twenties, I was at, so, before the PhD? Yeah. I was at, the dojo or whatever training, and I hurt my back. Really bad. Like my back went all the way out as they say. Wow. And this sets up this cycle of like doomsday, you get it back, in alignment or whatever.   You start training again. Yep. You hurt it again three, four times a year.   Yeah.   Sometimes it gets in like a lot worse, whatever. So I had this long-term chronic back pain and kind of disability that actually was pulling, I was functionally able, I'm not claiming I was disabled or anything, but practicing martial arts at a high level, continuing to do competitive martial arts was out like that wasn't real anymore. And it's like I just had this stupid back pain. As it turns out, while I was doing my PhD, I happened to be out at the park, out on a walk and I ran into a guy, there's a stupid story, but he thought I was my brother.   They had gone to school together, blah, blah, blah. And he was a chiropractor Uhhuh. And he could tell by my posture that my back hurt. But he thought he was this, guy he was friends with in high school, even though it's mistaken identity by brother. We got talking. I'm like, no, I'm his brother. We hung out.   Anyway, a little bit, chatted for a bit. He's I can tell your back hurts. You want me to fix it? And he did a massage to me, not twist and crack my back. And I was like, weird. And he's you need to go buy this book. It's called the Trigger Point Therapy Workbook. By Claire and Amber Davies. It's in his third edition.   People ask me every time I tell the story, where's the book? Well, I told you the whole title. You can go look it up and it's on Amazon uhhuh and massage yourself according to where it says to poke. And you now know what it, you now know what it feels like, and I'll help you here and there if you have time, or we have time or whatever, and we'll straighten you out.   And a few months later, I'd figured it out and I'd worked out a technique and had fixed my own back. Wow. So I get outta this back pain that had been plaguing me for most of a decade. My life is vastly improved.   I have this skill, which I actually do, to family members and friends and things. No, no money involved.   'cause it is illegal. And so I already had this background in helping people and helping myself. And I had this technique that I knew was rare within the massage market because I'd been in massage therapist who couldn't do it. Yeah. And even after I learned it, there was like stuff, it's hard to reach and I'm like, can you do this?   And I'm like on the table telling the massage therapist how to massage me correctly to make the thing work. And I'm like, no, seriously, just put your elbow there and hold it no harder. And it's this is frustrating. Why don't I just take my wife's advice and do this? Mm-hmm. So I did that for 10 years.   Yeah.   And while I'm doing that, I'm academically bored. I have some free time. It is a busy job, but your fingers can only handle so much.   Mm-hmm.   So you're not like at the desk 60 hours a week or something.   Right, right.   So I start writing and getting involved in discussion forums and. Things online.   People were wrong on the internet. One thing leads to another. I learned that radical feminists are a particular branch of wrong on the internet. I start fighting with them, they're terrible. I start reading their academic literature to understand what in the heck they're talking about, because I had no idea how they can just be calling everybody a sexist and saying, misogyny is the enforcer of sexism.   What the hell does that mean?   Yeah, yeah.   And that's Kate Mann, if you wonder who that is. She's the, she wrote a book called Down Girl. No, like weird sexual undertones there about misogyny being the enforcer of systemic sexism. And I'm like, alright, so I'm reading all this and I'm finally kinda getting my head around it.   I'm friends with this guy Peter Boghossian. We've written a bunch of stuff together at this point, and some of it is literally about all this kind of woke stuff at that point, which was poisoning everything we were dealing with. Killing.   So you're publishing articles online, you mean?   Yeah, just like that's what's happening.   Time magazine, scientific Americans.   I see, Uhhuh   here and there. We had the big ambition to get into the Atlantic or the New York Times.   Oh, cool.   I think we eventually, actually he and I put out a book together later and we actually did get an essay in the New York Times as a result of it.   I forgot about that. So anyways we never got the Atlantic though, and now it's whack, so that's okay. But that. We were just doing that and everything was toxic as hell because of these feminists. And Pete worked at Portland State University, which is maybe not ground zero, but ground like 0.001 or something for woke.   It's like really close to as bad as it can get. They got rated on the top 10 worst schools for free speech. And so Pete went to the president of the university and said, did you know that we're on the top 10 list for worse schools? And the president's reply was who wrote the list? Because sometimes those are lists you want to be on.   Yeah.   Like totally politicized, Yeah, it was crazy. Yeah. And it's a civil rights group called Fire, the Foundation for Individual Rights and Education that had made the list. It's pretty unbiased in that assessment. It's just straight civil liberties. Yeah. And so anyways we decided to take this on as you intimated.   What we decided to do was write a bunch of academic hoax articles. That's called the grievance studies affair. That was my big introduction into public life.   Mm-hmm.   We wrote 21, actually, if you count the trial balloon, we wrote 20 primarily articles, journal, academic, peer reviewed journal articles for   Were you just trying to go as far as were you just gonna keep going until you were found out, or did you have this number you were trying to get to?   No, we were going to write novel papers for one year. Oh, from when we started. Okay. And then we were going to see the papers that we wrote through and then that was that. Okay. And so as the, that was the original plan,   right   Which you formula formulated in August of 2017. And so the last novel paper we wrote was in June of 2018.   Mm-hmm.   Then we stopped in June because number one, we hit 20 number two, things were getting complicated, papers were getting published. It was in the news, like stuff's happening. We're trying to keep up with literally like 14 papers or 12 papers or something, or are active at this point. It's getting to be outta control.   So we decided 20 was the number, 10 months is enough, and we stopped.   Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.   But the goal was one year to write from August to August, come up with new ideas.. And then see them through, which can take another year, but. We ended up getting caught all of that attention. Some of the papers got, one of the papers in particular, which is the infamous one about dog humping at dog parks being an indicator for rape culture.   They're all funny as it turns out. That paper was so absurd. Eventually the Wall Street Journal started digging into it and we were caught. Basically. Yeah, it was like we had to send in. Like driver's licenses to prove that we were the fake name, that we used to write the paper.   And so we weren't gonna do that.   And so we had to just figure out how to get outta this thing, as best as possible.   So they know that they're fake, but they aren't sure who you are yet?   No, no. They thought the paper was real and then the Wall Street Journal thought the paper was fake or something's wrong like that. The identity, like nobody could find the identity of the alleged author.   Right. Right, right.   And so the academic journal in this case, which was called Gender, place and Culture, which was the leading journal in feminist geography, contacted us and said basically these right-wing trolls won't leave us alone. Please just prove your identity so we can clear this up.   Because that's their demanding proof of your identity and I'm not who you think I am.   Yeah. This isn't what you think it is.   Helen Wilson. So actually it's funny, I talked to the lady from the Wall Street Journal, her name's Jillian k Melcher. And so I got on the phone with her. I think she still writes there.   I don't know. But um. I got on the phone with her and so she hears my voice and I was like, this is Helen Wilson. And she's are you trans? I was like, no, this is a lot more interesting than that.. And off we go, having our dialogue, that thing comes out in the midst of this. So I realized this woke stuff's not stupid and it's not funny that it's actually scary.   Like I was like, the wheels are coming off the bus of society with this.   Yeah. Yeah.   In fact, I concluded that woke in the universities represented and I got in so much trouble for this phrasing. I still get in trouble for this phrasing, but I'm still gonna say it again because I stand by it.   Woke in the universities represents the seed, and I say that with emphasis, the seed. Of a genocide. And I say it with emphasis because if you say the seed of a genocide, people hear genocide. I didn't say it is a genocide. I said it is the seed, which if it finds soil and it sprouts and it's nourished and it grows and it finally bears fruit is a genocide.   It is the seed of a genocide. And   but there's no question that woke is intentionally turning people against each other. I don't think that's a,   there was in 2018.   Yeah. I don't think it's ridiculous to say that. That's where it could go., Did we not all watch Rwanda for heaven's sake.   Like we know.   Nobody believed a word of it in 2018.   That's you're intentionally turning people against each other. You're intentionally not intentionally creating contention. You're intentionally creating hate. Like you're the belief you want people to not like each other. You want people to distance themselves from others.   Like it was.   That's what I saw.   Yeah, that's what,   but the belief in 2018 was not that, the belief was this is a bunch of college people being college people and the real world will straighten 'em out. Leave it alone.. And I was like, no, it's not. This is a big, big, big problem coming. So I bravely.   The reason it can't be that is because it's coming from the leadership.   It can't be college people doing college stuff if the, if they believe that the authorities are with them. That's the difference is when if the authorities are with us, then this is legit and they'll bring it into their adult life and expect people to mold themselves to it.   Which was called the long March for the institutions.   And that's what they were doing. Yeah. And not in 2018, nobody believed that. Peter and I were considered quite wild.. I finally have this conversation with a guy, a doctor in 2019. Peter was there too. And we're talking to this guy who's fascinated by what we've been doing, and he's the first person we ever heard say, it finally hit me one day that you know, the belief that they're gonna go out into the real world and the real world's gonna straighten them out.   And it suddenly hit me, no, they're gonna go out and change the real world.   Yeah.   And that's exactly what their goal was. It's, they say their goal is. So I asked my wife in January of 2018 if I could quit my job as a massage therapist. Eventually when it got to be too much and dedicate all of my effort and resources to fighting woke by figuring the role that I selected for myself.   I'm not like. I'm not showing up to a lot of policy fights. I have been to school board meetings, but I'm not like the guy that's, I'm not running like a protest or, community organizing.. I decided that I have a skill in reading this, understanding it, making sense of it, and communicating that to people.   So I decided that I was gonna step into this, the role of Rosetta Stone for woke, and that's what I can do. I can help other people decode this. so a lot of people think that my discussions at a high level, that the podcast is hard. What I mostly do is read primary sources to people and tell 'em what they mean.. But the fact is. I always saw myself as if I'm gonna be the Rosetta Stone, I've gotta put the cookies on the fourth shelf and I've gotta put not the very top shelf, but the one right below it, and I've gotta bring a ladder. And so that's what I try to do. So I, people are like, James dumb it down.   I'm like, Nope. Your job, I bring the ladder, the cookies are there. You get the cookies, you distribute them. That's the way that I've envisioned my role. That's what I've sought to do. I think I do it well. When I try to dumb it down, I have to ask Grok for help. I'm not very good at it.   Yeah. Yeah,   Grok actually does an okay job with it, but then I take the thing grok gives me and then I edit it and make it harder again, so it's correct.   And there's just something wrong with me. The math in me, I don't know. And at any rate,   I think that the obstacle a lot of the time isn't so much that you can't explain the concepts. I think a big part of the barrier for most people is just the language. Like math is a different language.   Yeah.   It's a different language.   This is a different language.   And there's a lot of concepts and a lot of definitions and a lot of words that people just,   thousands.   Yeah, they just,   thousands   don't. And so they're, it's real. It's really, it can feel like, or sound like speaking a different language and you have to get in there and acquaint yourself with that and be able to and again, like I said, I had a little bit of a leg up maybe on other people to a point, simply because I was lucky enough to submerse myself in some of that education.   But I think that's very,   I'll give you a taste of this. That's very helpful.   And you have to use that language. You can't, not you have to use it. You have. What are you gonna do? You know?   So like in postmodernism, which you mentioned, which is a very mysterious and complicated thing. they focus on this kind of a thing called discourses. By the way, that's part of the reason I named my company New Discourses.   I didn't make that connection.   At any rate, the discourses what are discourses? Well, in general, it's how things are talked about, how people talk about things and what they're talking about, but they mean something more specific.   And I had, I'm about to do something very dangerous. I'm about to try to use words to describe a complicated picture, which never goes well. And I do not have the picture to share with you because I don't remember where I saw it. But I had watched this YouTube video some years ago, and it was describing discourses.. And it basically looked like a big, complicated mathematical graph, like a spider web graph. Okay. Except in three dimensions and big and complicated, in every dot represents a word. And every line between the dots represents how that word relates to other words. And it was all just. You know?   And it wasn't a real map of language.. It was just a pictorial representation of what, of an idea they were trying to communicate. Dog would have a line that goes to cat under the idea of that they're animals or whatever, right? So that it was like thousands of dots.   It was very complicated, spectrally looking thing.   Yeah.   And what it showed was the exact, the dots with all the lines. Then it said that set of lines is the discourses, or the discourse. That's how things are talked about. And all the things you can talk about are the words and the connections between them are the discourse.   Then the video, they got rid of those lines and kept all the same dots. And you could tell that's what they did. And then they just put new lines and they're like, that's a different discourse. So the point that I wanna make is,. When you say it's a different language, it's actually a different discourse.   They're using a lot of specialist terminology, but they're also using a lot of your regular words.   Yes.   With different connections. Yes. Between the words.   Yes.   So that when you hear the words, you don't realize they fully mean something different.   Yes. Yes. And you think you know what they mean and you actually don't.   And then when their conclusions are so confusing to you, then you feel like you're just an idiot, because why doesn't it make sense to you?   And so what the difference is, and it took me a long time to figure this out, and I can actually say it succinctly now, but what I did first, what I did to understand that language was, believe it or not, I just started writing a dictionary of it.   It's. Partly done, there's like 200 entries that I finished and like 500 that I haven't done on new discourses. I call it translations from the Wokes. And I just created in Social Justice encyclopedia where I just went through their words and tried to explain to other people what they must mean by that word.   And what I boiled down from this, first of all, it's how I really got my head around how they think was by decoding as many other words as possible. And so like in our normal use of language, the discourses are actually defined by something, which is that the words are supposed to refer to things in reality.   So the idea is that the words correspond to real things. And the relations between the words are defined by real relationships between the words.   Yeah.   That is not how they order their discourses. It took me so long to figure this out. The North Star for us is reality.   Yeah.   The North Star for them.   Is political power. So all of their words have to be understood in how they create relations of power between. them, if you have two dots that are connected, that dot that's connected, or the line that's connected them defines a power relationship.   Yeah.   In some way or another. So every single word has to somehow have an explanation that boils down to their convoluted ideas of systemic power.   And until I figured that out, it was literally, it's like trying to learn Korean where you can't read their alphabet.   Wow.   And isn't that the same reason why you make so many connections, draw so many straight lines back to Marxism for the same reason that's the same because they've got the same ultimate goal in mind.   That's, that connection, that political power is what's driving it, is what makes them all similar and what draws a line to them back to Marxism.   Yeah. That in every single possible trail of citations. the other thing that I did was I started reading this stuff, I was trying to figure out feminism, then we were trying to write the grievance papers and then I was trying to make sense of this to communicate it.   And it's like peeling an onion in a sense.. And it's just instead of reading the history of this particular branch of philosophy from the beginning and moving forward, oh, here's John Jacque Russo, and here's what Kant did with him, and here's what Hegel did with that. Now we get to Marx through Feuerbach.   Instead of that, I started on the other end, I started at the end I started in, pop articles in Cosmopolitan,   Uhhuh.   And then it's who's the feminist they referenced, what did she say? Who did she cite?. Oh, we are, now we're back to Fuko. Here's all these postmodernists.   Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.   Mm-hmm.   But somehow there's this other piece that I can't find and the citation trail gets a little bit wacky, but they all talk about Marx here and there, but they seem to be against Marx. And then somehow, actually my friend Michael Fallon, I was with him and I'm talking about, I was just postmodernism and postmodernism at the time.       Yeah.   Back in 2019. We were in a hotel together in Orlando and he said you need to read Repressive Tolerance by Herbert Marusa. And I'm like, never heard of it. Not relevant. Is it postmodern? No. Not relevant. In fact, it's critical theory, which we had been convinced by a critical theorist that understood postmodernism, who was helping us understand it at the time that critical theory wasn't relevant, which is completely wrong.   , I don't know if it was a lie or just a complete distortion. I can work out arguments for both.   Yeah.   As to how he could have made this argument, honestly. Or not. But at any rate, Mike sends me a link to repressive tolerance. I end up going to my room and just sitting there a little early in the hotel, don't have anything to do, start reading It. takes about an hour and a half to read the thing all the way top to bottom for yourself. It's not easy.   Yeah.   And I'm reading it and I'm like, holy crap. This is like everything. But then we're busy for the rest of the trip, like two, three days.. And on the flight home, I read all of it. I actually get to the bottom.   And the bottom is where he is takes the mask off. It's this is gonna require censorship and prec censorship and violence is on the table and all. I'm like, holy moly, and I was like, we live in this guy's world. This is the world they created. And all of a sudden I knew that critical theory was relevant.   And the second I knew critical theory was relevant. That's neo Marxism. Yeah. Therefore marxisms on the table. And then I had this weird humiliating moment because up to that point I had been arguing against Jordan Peterson's. Characterization of it as being postmodern neo Marxism.   And I was like, that's a lot of words. And I was against the neo-Marxist element. Then I read Marcuse and I'm like, it's neo Marxism that's using postmodern tools. It's postmodern neo Marxism   crap. You know? And it's like Jordan was right.   Mm-hmm.   And, but he wasn't getting through to me, but he was right.   So at any rate, I was able to go back and listen to Jordan again with a new set of ears and a new set of eyes and started to piece it together. But once you find them, it's a straight line to Marx.. There's no avoiding it.. And then you can start to see the marx, the postmodernists hid it better, but you can see the marx all through how they think.   And these newer people, it's all kinds of, all over the place there.   Yeah.   But they do this citation game where they won't cite the like really bad guy. They don't want you to know they worked with. They use all of his ideas, they just attribute it to somebody else who also used their ideas. There's this weird citation game.   It's like they know they're hiding their tracks sometimes.. And it takes somebody like Paulo Frady, who I, dove into heavily for education.. For me to really open my eyes and be like, this guy's sighting, like Stalin   wow.   All the way out. What's going on?   Wow.   No, these guys are just commies and, they've just changed their shirts.   It's otherwise, they're literally just communists. And now what we saw on the news the other day, just to draw a metaphor, that Xi Jinping changed his shirt back. So he took off his business suit and put on the frog collar Mao military suit for his meeting that he had with Putin and Kim Jong-un the other day.   Oh, I did not know that.   Mm-hmm. The world noticed.   Okay. Just as a sideline, as a quick question, then we'll get back to the mainline questions. This is just my own bit of curiosity. So would you say that critical race theory has developed into what we might call its own worldview? Or would you say it's like a tool set that can get layered on other approaches?   Both. Is it. It's both.   Oh, okay. Okay.   It's both, but, I thought you were gonna ask me a different question. I was anticipating your question. I was like, is it that or is it Marxism? And I'm like, but it's just derivative to Marxism., It's literally Marxism. Just reconceptualized.. But it is its own worldview, right? So you have a massive social system. I'm think of white supremacy that pervades everything that was created by white people.. And the point was, in order to elevate themselves as a race and to subjugate other people as a race, which gets. Codified by a woman named Cheryl Harris, for example, in 93, she wrote a paper called Whiteness as Property, and she explains that whiteness was established by white people for the purposes of white supremacy, et cetera, as a form of private property that only white people have or can extend to others like Irish or Germans or Jews or whoever they wish.   Yeah.   Or even to model minorities like Asians or so whatever, but never to black people and never to the fully indigenous.. Right?. And but she conceives of it actually as a form of what Karl Marxs in the Communist manifesto calls bourgeois private property. She even says that it's a form of bourgeois private property, which the Communist manifesto is abundantly clear that the he says communism can be summarized in a single sentence, abolished private property,   all private property.       After he says that by private property, he means bourgeois private property.   Yep. Yep.   By which he means capital.   Yes.   So it means your own private property that you are able to and allowed to go invest. In other words, you can take your pile of money to go make a bigger pile of money and, that's what's gotta go away., I was like,   . I was like, wow. It's just the same worldview, but instead of the evil hand of capitalism and the bourgeois values that uphold it.. We now have the evil specter of white supremacy and the, the values of whiteness, which are just western hegemonic values.   They're just literally the regular   because it's telling you what to believe and what's right and wrong and what your values need to be and how   that's right.   Life   and who the,   it's a whole   who the angels and who the demons are.   It's yes.   It's a fully, in the psychological terminology,   what the purpose of life is   a fully split world of view.. It's, there's anti-racist and there's racist. That's it. So there the people who are dedicated to a communist revolution against the racist regime that exists today. And then there are a racial communist revolution. And then there are the people who wish to preserve the status quo, who are all racists.   And so there's no in between. They explicitly tell you there's no not racist.   Yeah.   And so   Oh yeah. Oh yeah.   It's a total worldview.   Oh yeah.   But it's also a package of tools that you can pick up, which is called racial critique or racial consciousness raising that you can then use in specialized circumstances layered into other things.   And one of the things I loved that Jordan Peterson cleared up for me too, is that when you adopt one of these other worldviews too, what you're really doing is putting yourself in this position of moral superiority and you get to look down on everybody else because you have it all figured out. I loved how you laid that out in this education book in terms of, there's, the people that know and the people that don't know. It's that same kind of   Yeah, no of racist versus anti-racist,   knower versus   we're the enlightened, those not allowed to know, and you're the idiots and so we need to enlighten you and we're on top.   And postmodernism works the same way.   They're the people who assign themselves the power to define what the discourses look like, what meaning actually is. And then there are all the people who have different meanings who aren't recognized because, they're kept outside of the power structure.   It's just language games.   It's the same thing. Yeah, that's right. It's just the same pattern over and over again. It's dis just disappointingly not creative.   That's true actually.   How, this is a question for you. Yeah. How savvy with your audience can I use gnostic terminology and not lose people? Because some people might get this and some people might not.   But if it's just gonna lose everybody, there's not a lot of point in taking this little digression. It's very short though.   You could try it.   Okay, so very brief summary of gnosticism that will satisfy nobody. Gnosticism is a ancient heretical belief that the God of the creator of the world is actually a demon that's called the demi urge, which comes from the Greek degos, which means builder.   And so he's not the real God. There's a real high God behind that. So we're actually trapped in a prison in our own existence in the world that was created by a demonic force called the demi urge. And we can wake up to the truth that there's a real higher God beyond the God that everybody thinks is God, the God of this world.. Okay. So that's the idea. When you get into various schools of thought within the gnostic thinking structure, you have these kind of lesser demons, under the demi urge called Archons   Uhhuh.   Okay. So what's happened with the whole Marxist philosophy as we talked about at the Dallas workshop you came to   is that it's all socio agnostic rather than there being a spiritual realm that's split into this, high god, that's all good versus the demon that we all perceive that builds the world that we live in. It's not spiritual any longer now. It's social. So there are social high gods that we have that are beyond our access, but then there's a social demon God that's built out the systems of power that we all live within.   So each of those systems of power is like an Archon. And so systemic racism is an Archon, so critical race theory is addressing one of the Archons of the gnostic.   Mm-hmm.   That's one way to think about it.   Yeah. Could you say within that framework that it was something like   that the, the misogyny or the patriarchy. Would that be, within the framework that you're talking about? That's like an Archon that's something that's controlling us.. That's the devil. God,   that's exactly right.   Okay. So that's what you mean. So that's an establishment that we can't get outside of that's controlling us.   That's the devil.   Yeah. But the Archons are like, they're like,   and the patriarchy is controlling everything we get to do.. We have to fight it. And so CRTs our tool, so we're gonna fight this. And it's established as the reality. The patriarchy is a real thing. Like we can prove it.   Here's our proofs. Let's use this really, this really terrible, but, they say helpful tool of CRT or whatever it is mm-hmm. To fight against the Archons.   That's right. So it, yeah. It's like the demi urge overall is like. The evil builder, god of the systems of the world..       But the Archons. Are like his emissaries. Yeah. They work in specific domains. There's theon that might govern the wind and there's theon that might govern the waters or whatever else. Or that governs the human heart or whatever it happens to be. And so each of these systemic power dynamics, classism, racism, sexism, patriarchy, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, is like one of those like lesser.   Beings in this. Grand gnostic prison that we all live in.. But that's why they all act like we've been imprisoned in some world., We didn't want, we don't wanna live in, and they freak out, like their rights and freedoms are being taken away from them.   Yeah.   When the, all that's happening is literally they're not being expanded into places that are not even rights or freedoms.   It's mind blowing to listen to because when you listen for very long, not even very long you start to realize that, that, for people who are really entrenched in this. They really believe that like somebody somewhere had the skills, the ability, the resources the forward thinking enough to have intentionally built this whole thing like that.   People really did sit in their dark corners and figure out how to build this patriarchy and that it's intentionally attacking them. It's crazy. And then they, one of the things that we talk about our, Academy a lot is victim mentality., When I look at any one of these I don't know, whether you frame it as woke or critical race theory or whatever, what they're trying to do is draw everyone into that drama triangle. They wanna position the world as if it's all persecutor and victims and rescuers and they wanna position all of us as victims and be the rescuers and the whole model is broken because that whole drama doesn't work.   It, everybody wants to be the victim. Everybody's just piling on top to be the victim.. And that's why, you do that in your home, everybody's fighting. 'cause everybody wants to be the one that doesn't have to take responsibility and doesn't have to change things. And there's the big, bad whatever out there.   And to me it's like it at a very personal level, it's so dangerous because it causes people to evade personal responsibility. I feel like at its root, that's a lot of, how it deconstructs the human deconstructs the family is. When you really embrace it and you really become part of it.   You don't. You don't have to change as a person. You don't have to own your crap. You don't have to ask people, tell 'em you're sorry. You don't have to forgive 'em. You don't have to show up different, you don't have to do your job. You just get to complain.. And moan and gripe.   I'll just tell you, not to make it still weird, but this is the gnostic thing, right?   So the gnostic thing is that the idea is that we're actually perfectly spiritual beings. In fact, we're identical with God. We're not separated from this high God, but that we're all imprisoned in this material, crappy, fallen, fake world.. And so what actually enlightens you knowing your true spiritual nature as an imprisoned creature who's been flung into the world to use the Heger term for it?   Yeah.   What awakens you to that is suffering, you're suffering, that you're not expressing yourself as you truly should be, as a fully liberated being, which means a full, integrated part of God. Again, that suffering in the world, which makes you hate the world, becomes the currency. So this is why it's the same exact mentality.   Everything you just described just is exactly the results of that applied to social dynamics instead of to a high spiritual, cult. Literally a spiritual cult. Yeah. And this is why it's such a profound spiritual sickness that it causes in people is because they are enacting spiritual sickness through social means, not realizing that they're engaging in this fundamental spiritual disease. Where you've now inverted   Yeah.   The order of spirituality.. In your own   right is wrong   and glorious belief that you in fact are continuous with the most high.   That you have the answers and that you're gonna rescue the world. And   They don't get it. They have false consciousness, they think everything's real, not fallen in crappy, in an image and a,   yeah.   Mundane and not spiritual. They don't get it. You have to wake 'em up. They have to be woke.   Yeah. It's crazy. I did a YouTube channel and I used to do book reviews and one time I did a communist manifesto book review. And, my particular copy had a really nice introduction and then that introduction, he talked about what I believe to be the truth, that you can look at Marxism as a religion and that it has many of the tenets of a traditional religion.   It gives you a purpose in life. It tells you who you are. It tells you what you're supposed to devote your life to. It tells you what's right and wrong. And he says it also invokes the same kind of religious fervor, the kind of fervor and passion that has been traditionally evoked with, a God relationship.   And I got so much crap, so many people making comments. You're such an idiot. You don't have a clue what you're talking about. Why don't you study real Marxism? Why don't all this kind of stuff. I just still blown away by the fact that did, I guess some people maybe it took and it, they agreed, but I still can't believe how many people were just so averse to that, to looking at it that way.   'cause that made absolute sense to me.   Yeah. People flip out about it, but it's. The word religion has to be used with some caution here because do you consider heretical cults religions?. But they certainly get adhered to with religious fervor and under a judicial definition of religion for like establishment clause purposes.   It meets the definition, which is, by the way,   just read wild swans.. And you'll see exactly what it felt like, what the stupid meetings and the confessions and the, anyway,   that's right. So I don't think that's crazy, but I don't know where it goes. But I can't look at it other than not just as religious in its orientation, but specifically as a recreation of gnostic cults, which gets me in all kinds of trouble.   I was getting made fun on the internet for this today. I get made fun of almost every day for this.   But otherwise, why eradicate all other religions in the first place? Because you are trying to tap into the same emotions that religions are and you're competing with them, so you have to.   That's why, they're always, as soon as communism really takes hold. Anyway, that's a whole other We're getting off. Yeah.   It's a whole thing, but it's a hundred percent right.   Okay. Let me ask you a couple, that's just for my own curiosity.. Okay. So, here's a big question.   You now have been at this long enough that you have gotten a lot of grief. So my question is, why do you keep doing it?   Yeah, one does wonder that sometimes, no, actually I'm very blessed to get to hear somebody else give the answer that you knows the right answer.   So then you know what the answer is and you can just say this guy said this.. And you don't have to think of your own 'cause he said it.. And so I was at an event, I don't know if you've heard of the film that I helped produce a couple years ago called Beneath Sheep's Clothing.   I heard you mentioned it, but I've not seen it.   Yeah. It's pretty good. I'll say, it's a good film. Yeah. And I think it had a pretty good. It made a pretty good splash last year when we put it out. But this would've been about a year earlier and I was out in Utah at a fundraiser to try to raise some of the initial, production cost money for the film and which turned out to be a successful fundraiser is very good.   Nice.   But, one of the other guys who was helping, who helped organize this fundraiser and, put the event on and all this had just suffered a close family friend dying. And their funeral was that day, earlier in the same day as the event.   So we had this event planned and then somebody dies and then he has to go to a funeral in the afternoon. And then at 5:30 we have a barbecue and an event.., I mean, he is a great guy. He wasn't on his normal emotional level, is what I would phrase this as. He wasn't like wild or weird or broken down or anything.   But as you can imagine, he's got a different perspective he brings to the table.. So he stands up and he ends up having this kind of like emotional moment where he says what he wants to say about the film and why it's important. But you can tell he took what would've been like 15 minutes of remarks and shrunk it to three.   And then he was like, my friend just died and it had me thinking all day and basically, why should you support this film? The reason you should support this film is the same thing I was thinking about. And it was a little awkward, but what he said was, I was thinking, why do I do this?   Yeah.   And he is as soon as I asked myself, he's talking about how he's driving in the car back from the funeral. Why do I do this? Why am I in this fight? Why do I get up every day? And he gets his own grief, right? Why do I do this? And so he's immediately came to my mind, my kids.   Right. I do it for my kids. Yeah. 'cause they're the next generation.. And then he thought, no, it can't be that. It's too selfish. It's too small, actually.. And then he was like, I do it for everybody's kids for the whole next generation. And then he thought, no, I care about that, but I don't care enough about that.   You know?. It's it's too abstract in a way.   Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.   And so then he is I do it for my family. And he had the same kind of roadblock. I do it for my myself. And that wasn't right. And he finally said that he, I don't remember. He had this whole progression of things.   It went on for a little bit, but then he finally says, it finally came to me. It struck me that I do this because I know in every bit of my heart that if I didn't do this. I wouldn't be able to look myself in the mirror in the morning when I wake up. Every bit of my soul tells me every single day I have to do this.   So I get asked this question a lot. Why do you put up with the trouble? Why do you put up with the fighting? Why do you put up with the doxing, the smearing, the slander, the harassment, the bullying, the every other thing, cancellations from every which way?   Yeah.   And then just keep going. And the dumb answer is, I don't know how not to, and I don't mean that in a stupid way.   Yeah.   I don't know how to live with myself if this isn't what I'm doing.   Yeah.   I could just go get like a normal job and just enjoy my life. I've got a great place to live. I, have a comfortable life. I have a great family. Like I could just move on.. And then it's no, I couldn't because every single day I am gonna think about this stuff.. Be still working out the ideas, I'm probably gonna end up doing the reading again, and then I'm gonna get pulled back into it. 'cause I gotta tell somebody about what I read holy crap. And so I do it because I have to like, and I don't know why I have to, I just have to, I couldn't live with myself if I wasn't.   And when you have that feeling, trouble coming your way doesn't matter that much. It's okay, so what? It's just part of the process, it's not fun or pleasant. Like I have better and worse moments, but at no point is there time to pack up and do something else.   Mm-hmm.   The only time that I have any doubt of that kind whatsoever is when I wonder if the work that I'm doing is effective. At which point it's not should I quit, it's. Should I completely retool and figure out how to be effective and just basically not put anything out until I figure that out. And like that's just a matter of pragmatics though. That's not a, it's not a fundamental deviation from actually doing the thing. And then I realized I've got a limited set of talents here and I've got a highly refined capacity to do what I'm doing, and I don't see it anywhere else, honestly, except in a very small places and a small number of people.   And so I better just kinda keep going and doing what I'm doing.. And, we'll see where the chips fall.   Yeah. And at this point, the more that you know the better. Resource you are, the more connections you can create for people and the more you can help them make sense of, and I know you contribute, when there's been lawsuits and other things like that.   It's not just your books and your writing and your events, but there's a lot of that. Yeah,   I've done a lot of stuff.   Yeah. Done a lot of stuff. Before we finish up, I wanna touch on something that head a little bit different direction for a minute, because. I got turned on through Locke 20 years ago.   He introduced me to the natural law. I felt cheated 'cause I never got it in school.   Mm-hmm.   And then I started making connections to, oh it's in our declaration and oh, it's been talked about forever. And so that's the lens through which I work with women, that there are things that are objectively true.   They are always true. They're true for everyone. There are things that are written on our heart. That's one way to talk about it. And the thing that you say a lot, that I quote a lot is that reality is what you bump up against when your beliefs are wrong or some variation on that theme.   And then when we were at this event, your ending presentation was a lot about what truth is and why it matters and how, we get back to that. Can you just talk just for a minute to whoever might. Be listening about why you believe that there's objective truth, and what you mean by this reality is what you bump up against when your belief is wrong.   And why? Why all of that matters. Why you, why that's part of what you champion.   It's just what the deepest philosophical question in the world. Okay, cool.   Yeah, you're welcome.   Yeah. No, why is reality, right? That's like the philosophical question.   But why do you even, we have just talked about worldviews that even reject reality.   I mean I'm saying I guess didn't used to be a choice to believe in it, but it is today. And so for you, why. Why do those things matter? Why do you talk about things in that way? What is truth to you? What is reality to you?   Sure. What I don't want to do is turn this into a long discussion about the philosophy of science, of why I think that realism is the correct philosophical position.   Realism being the belief that reality exists external to us and is objective to each of us.. A very simple explanation that doesn't satisfy everybody, but it satisfies a lot of people.. Is that, let's say that I set up a just a thought experiment. I set up a room and there's nothing in the room, but a chair and a table and something on the table.   What does something is, does not matter. Okay. And now a hundred people randomly selected from whatever walks of life you want, I don't care what walks of life.. You could even have a dog among the list to the degree that the dog is capable of doing things as a dog.   Sure.   And we put them one after another to go into the room.   And pretend they have a pad of paper and a pencil besides the object and it's write down what's on the table. And then they come out and the door's closed. Nobody can see inside. Nobody knows what was, we get the paper, we have all 100 people go, including we can even video how the dog interacts with the thing on the table.   If it doesn't, I can imagine it's set up so the dog might sniff it or whatever. Right, the thing is, every single one of them to within some range of error or tolerance would describe the same thing.   Yeah.   Right.. So they would therefore perceive the same thing?   Yeah.       And it wouldn't matter if we picked this random sample or that random sample, and it wouldn't matter if, we were using other tools like different kinds of, maybe we scan the room with light, which is photons.   Maybe we scan the room with electrons, maybe we scan the room with, protons or neutrons or any of these other kind of part. Doesn't matter how we do it, we're going to get a bunch of descriptions or whatever of the thing that all have consilience, they all line up in some way or another. And the simplest, in my opinion, explanation for how that's possible is that we actually live in a world where things are real and they're outside of our imaginations, they're outside of our heads.   We can get into complicated things like, no, we're a brain and a vat. But then you have to explain how you, your whole world is your brain and your vat. And somehow every other person who has as much will to do whatever it is that they want to or would still manages to perceive the thing the same way that you perceive it.   So it's just a lot easier to just cut the Bs as. Mr. T once said he gave, he made a series of funny videos back in the day. Him giving basic advice and one of them was Mr. T on public speaking and he's cut out the jibber jabber. Say what you got to say. That's all reality is real, is just cutting out the jibber jabber,.   It's saying what you got to say, that's all. So that does take a modicum of faith to believe that reality's real and that we're perceiving an external reality.. But because of the fact that every single external observer given a simple enough task to observe something will give conciliatory answers to one another. It's just way easier. To assume that reality's real.   Mm-hmm.   And you know this, again, without getting into a long description of the philosophy of science or even possibly why human beings have sense apparatuses and why they work the way that they do, why they have fidelity, blah, blah, blah.   All that's a fun and exciting exploration. We could go down those roads. I have things to say, but the point is, we would all basically agree on the features of reality pretty closely, which is pretty hard to explain unless it's just actually there.   Yeah.   And okay. So once we decide that reality's actually there truth becomes this.   Thing that somehow represents that which is in reality. In other words, I subscribe to what philosophers call the correspondence theory of truth. Those ideas that correspond faithfully to reality are true.   Yeah.   Does that mean that we know them accurately? No. Does it mean that our ideas are not ideas, but are actually real?   No, our ideas are still ideas, but when they accurately describe reality to a Fair enough, degree.. I talked about these things in the workshop.. I talked about the big four operational criteria by which we can judge a model of reality,. Does it have predictive power?   Does have explanatory power.   Yeah. I love that.   Is it parsimonious?. No extra assumptions, blah, blah, blah.   Yeah.   Whatever they are, because, I have to write those ones down. But. Because we can then, make a judgment about the reality and say that well, probably the thing is real.   And what is true about the thing is that, which corresponds to what, everybody, not most people, everybody would, if their sense faculties are working.. Within reasonable tolerance would conclude about it. Including even, you know, animals and other things. If I put a plant on the table and a snail in the room, you're never gonna see the snail, flying or something.   It's, if it's crawling on the plant, it's always gonna be on the plant. So it's even it's sense of touch is connected to the object really physically being there.   Yeah.   It's like, it's not just floating near it or something.. So that's just the best explanation.. So for me, truth then is what corresponds to reality.   Yeah.   With reality being something that's out there.. This also takes a drop of faith, but then it's what do you do with the fact? This is a deep philosophical question. Like I said, this is an important question in the philosophy of science.. And epistemology.. But what do you do with the fact that okay, you said the thing on the table is a plant.   Right. But you could call it a different name. You could specify what kind of plant it is. You could play this stupid game, like tree is tree in English and it's arable in Spanish. Sure. Like you could do, why does that. Word or the idea that word represents. How do you know that's what's real?   It's easier to deal with that with like fundamental particles. If you look, 'cause they're not a lot going on with them, but if you have a proton and you fire it at a thing, you can describe its behavior fantastically. You can tell exactly what it's, you can guess it's momentum. You can tell how fast it's going.   You can do all kinds of things about it, right?. You can see how it scatters and you can be very precise. You can do a lot of stuff.. Very accurately. How do you know it's actually a proton? You don't there's some object that we agree to call or phenomenon actually. Maybe physical phenomenon.   We agree to call a proton.. And it definitely exhibits these behaviors that can be explained by these properties. So that's called a model. So there's an entire school of thought. It was created by Stephen Hawking and his. A colleague, Leonard Mlodinow, and he wrote about it in a book called The Grand Design, if you wanna read it for yourself, called Model Dependent Realism.   Mm-hmm.   I had the good luck one time of running into Leonard Mlodinow himself. Ah. And the Caltech physicist, and I talked to him about model dependent realism.. And he was like why don't you explain to me what you think it is? And I explained to him what I think it is, and he is that's a better explanation than I would've given.   I think you understand it. I believe in this. This is a lot to say.. What I mean is I believe there's reality. I believe the best we can do is create models of reality. Those models have a degree of accuracy and correspondence.. And at that level, you can compare them one to the other, but it doesn't matter if the actual contents of the model are.   Literally true that a proton is literally a proton instead of some phenomenon that happens to exactly act the way the thing we describe in this model as a proton. That doesn't matter. It's irrelevant. And that's basically the idea. Okay? So once you get to that point, you can agree that reality exists.   That reality has certain principles that reality behaves in certain ways. So there's all of physical truth just falls out of that. The reality is out there, it's discernible.. It's not always easy. We can apply reason, logic, inference, deduction.. All these logical tools to try to figure out what the data are telling us.   When we do experiments, we can rule out certain explanations. We can posit other explanations out at the fringes. Like in cosmology there's 30 explanations 'cause nobody knows which one's. For sure. Yet. And they're competing with one another.   Yeah.   But what about things like moral truth level.   That's what I was gonna say. Yeah. How do you That was human experience. Yeah.   There are different ways to do this. One way is the natural law way, which is the direction I'm gonna take in away that you might not expect. The other way is the religious way, which in my opinion is fine, but also a shortcut.   Which is to say, that the law is written on every human heart.. And so in better language, honestly, what we have is general revelation to work things out in special revelation to help us do it.   Yeah.   And that's, in my opinion, a shortcut if we try to take that off the table to get the harder answer.. My answer usually starts with this very weird sentence that I end up saying to a lot of people who never seem to understand what I'm talking about. I even said it in the back of the room to a guy at the workshop in Dallas. Is that human beings are abounded set. How do I know that?   Because if we have our room that I was just describing and there's a person in the room   mm-hmm.   You're gonna know it's a person. If there's a chimpanzee in the room, instead, you wouldn't think it's a person.   Mm-hmm.   If there was a banana, you wouldn't think it's a person.. If it's a rock, you wouldn't think it's a person.   So there's only so many states in which matter, if we wanna be purely materialist about it can exist and that still be human. In other words, humanity is a bounded set.   Yeah.   Which. For whatever reasons be that evolution, be that creation, be that whatever the explanation for how we got here and how we are, whatever it is.   Yeah.   It's got ends. It only goes so far and then you're not that anymore.   There's something else. Okay. So we are some kind of a social species. We live not just in small bands, but in small bands that band together into larger bands.   Mm-hmm.   Into communities, into even nations. And beyond, we have this very complicated, in the technical word for it is ultra sociality.   We are for whatever reason, an ultra social animal that has all these different properties. We have, our own brands of, we have needs, food, water, sleep, shelter, so on.   Mm-hmm.   We have. For whatever set of reasons in our sociality, a sense of fairness. We have a desire to, do well in the world.. We have actually capacity for cooperation.. Because we have the capacity for cooperation. We have the capacity to get cheated, therefore, we develop high intelligence to make sure that we can work with each other without getting cheated by each other. There are lots of reasons to believe that if you buy the evolutionary hypothesis, that's why humans are primarily so smart.   Mm-hmm.   Was so that we can figure out how to work together and not get cheated by free riders. That would, that would basically be parasites on your tribe or your community.   Sure.   So you have to figure out what people's intentions are with what they're doing and why they're doing it, whatever that all, whatever the causes of all of that.. Maybe we're just created and that's the situation. Maybe we evolve this way, whatever the cause is.   Yeah.   That's defines a wide set of parameters.   Yeah.   By which we have to interact with each other and there are better and worse answers.. I'm not saying there are perfect answers. There are better and worse answers.. For how we're going to do that. We call that morality. Better answers are considered moral. And you can say moral in a local sense, like Islam has its set of values.   Mm-hmm.   And then Christianity has a set of values. And western liberalism. Regardless of religion has a set of values.. But at the same time, there's still the fact that human societies, you can measure how well are they flourishing.. How productive are they can, how much are they developing?   You have enough information to look back,   can they feed everybody? Do they have to kill people they don't know how to deal with?   There are some pretty basic things and then there's some pretty sophisticated and complicated things where you can measure and say. Which of these sets of values actually promotes flourishing better?   Yeah.   And I know that some people are gonna recognize that this is a spinoff of Sam Harris's argument in the moral landscape.   Mm-hmm.   Which people have accused of being kind of moral relativist. But what I think is that there might be multiple answers to what good morality is, but because humans are a bounded set, most of the right answers for most people, most of the time are going to overlap. Now, what does that mean for a culture that has completely different values and it's functioning, but maybe at a lower level?   Can you just say, take, some backwards tribe in Pakistan of, angry Muslims and transform them into liberal loving, western Christians. The answer is no, because it's really hard to change the way that people understand the world as a communist learned, you can't just change in one generation how people think about the world.   . How communities share and transmit knowledge, it has nothing to do with race, but has a ton to do with culture. Is that we share and transmit knowledge in different ways for different purposes. And tend to have very sticky cultural underpinnings that. It's like the weird conservative thing.   This is what we've done and it works and there might be something that works better, but by God, we're not messing up to find out. But the short answer is that there are moral truths because there are only so many. There might be more than one, but there are only so many good answers to these questions.   And it is very likely that there are actually optimal answers to these questions.. And I think the United States is one of these, this is what the point of my lecture was in some senses that the United States proves out that the principles of, voluntary exchange with safeguarded private property rights unlock abundance, prosperity, and wealth.   Period.. It doesn't matter who you're talking about, it doesn't matter where they're from.. This is a universal principle. So the, a value set that honors the ability to engage in voluntary exchange of secured private property. Is going to produce greater abundance, wealth and prosperity for the people who engage in it.   Mm-hmm.   And it's just a fundamental. Fact, like another fact of human nature is that at the end of the day, as communal and ultra social and whatever, highfalutin and stuff, we are, we're also self-interested.   Yes.   Like number one is still number one. And you can say I'm religious. God is number one.   We know what we, you don't have to play word games with me. We all know what, looking out for number one means.. And it means you're taking care of yourself first.. And we're all self-interested. So what this weird system we have of, voluntary exchange and secured private property.   What allows me to do is to have a self-interested motive to help a stranger. If you have, I use the example of hammers. So if you have a loose nail on your house and I don't have, I don't care. It's not my problem. You need something to drive in that nail.. If I happen to be good at buying hammers, I don't have to know you.   I don't have to care about you. I don't have to care about your wall. I don't have to care about what you're doing about, I don't care about your problem, but you'll give me $20 for a hammer and I care about $20.. So now I am investing my time and resources to create the object that you need so that you can solve your problem without even knowing you or your problem or caring about it.   So all of a sudden, self-interest becomes mutual interest.   Yes.   It solves that problem. And so this kind of a system fits with our if you're Christian, you'll say, fallen human nature, where we're looking out for number one instead of number one.   Mm-hmm.   Right? And so these are, again, I can, I did this in New Zealand, actually, this is very similar.   Talk to that portion of the presentation I gave in Dallas.   Mm-hmm.   And I had the wherewithal in New Zealand, which I did not have in Dallas. After six lectures and being exhausted, but in, New Zealand, I had the wherewithal in front of this crowd to say all these principles about basically what amounts to free enterprise.   And why they produce wealth and abundance. And at the end was like, and obviously they have this huge issue with the racial issue with the Maori and the Pacifica and all of the different peoples. And I was like, and notice that what I just said is true for every single person. I didn't have to mention that it's more true for white people or Maori people or any race.   It doesn't matter.. It doesn't matter. So the fact that there are universally true things that produce greater abundance, flourishing and so on means that there must be some. Objective moral truths. The problem is that some values are socially constructed.. Sometimes for legitimate reasons, derivative to real stuff, and sometimes for completely arbitrary reasons.   Which is why I also think a principle of free inquiry allows you to say does that tradition that we have here really work?   Or is it just something we do because we do it?. Does it really work? And that requires free inquiry. 'cause otherwise, the second you say, what about this tradition, somebody cuts your head off because now you're a threat to the tribe.   So the second you have free inquiry, what you can do is you have, one of the big four operational criteria was optimal flexibility. Was the ability to abandon a bad idea. In favor of a better idea.   Yeah.   And if you have free inquiry, you can then say I don't know about this tradition. Then you can have a debate about it with violence not on the table, and discuss what is this real?   Is this actually, is there something better we could do? Can we do an experiment and find out, kind of test both of them ab test this and see what happens? And you can start to find better solutions to ways that you deal with, building the complex problem of how do you build and run and manage a society.   Yeah.   And history in some sense is this weird collection of, uncontrolled, unregulated experiments.. And how this is done. You have countries that have all these principles and they decide they're gonna have, I don't know, a great society program instituted by President Johnson.   Everything gets worse and you say, that was a mistake. We shouldn't do that anymore.   Yeah. Yeah. Wow. That's. So well said.   In other words, human nature exists that's the short version.   Yeah. Yeah. And we ignore it or go against it at our peril. That's really like   the hard part for it is that there are genuinely places for wiggle room within human nature.   Sure.   There are perfectly acceptable different ways to cut your hair. And style your hair.   Yes.   From one culture to another, and it literally doesn't matter.   Yeah. One of the things that I love to quote is from democracy in America. In the preface Tocqueville, it's like a letter to the French.   It's Hey I've written this book for you. Here's what I want you to think about., I can't give you the whole paragraph, but basically he says the idea is, what they're doing is working pretty well. And I really think we ought to follow the American model.   And he says, but we need to follow her principles, not the specifics of her laws, basically. And that kind of speaks to what you're saying here, that there are things, there are fundamental principles that made America work. And that's what Tocqueville recognized that France needed right at, mid 18 hundreds.   That's definitely what they needed. And if they were to embrace those, but do it the French way, 'cause you can do it the French Way and that's, that's what he understood. We can still be us.   Mm-hmm.   But those are objective, human, moral, societal, governmental truths, principles, however you wanna talk about them, that will just create flourishing if we'll just get behind them it, infuse them into our systems in whatever way we possibly can.   Yeah, it's that variation or variability on themes erected off of core universal and fundamental principles is actually at the basis for why I think things in the moral universe are true beyond obviously physical truths.. Which we had to waste time because we live in postmodernity now.   So somebody has to say that reality's not real. And how do you know? And what do you mean by real? What does is mean? How are we gonna rearrange our discourses so that I win The argument is what postmodernism is really about.   And that's for me where I feel like individual expression really comes in play.   Different cultures. We can have all of that individuality and we can have, culturally or individually or whatever as a society, we can be who we are, we can be the French, we can be the whatever. But we're not gonna thrive unless we accept that there are certain proper ways to bring about human flourishing and we've gotta get behind them.   Yeah. Human nature exists.   Yeah.   Also the physical world exists, or another way to say human.   And it's crazy that we have to defend that the hundred and fifty years ago. We wouldn't even have this conversation. It would've been what are you even talking about? Why are you even defending?   That's so common sense. Yeah. Okay, last question for you.   The reason is because academics didn't defend their turf properly and now we're all living in their I know their nightmare.   I know. There's this great, you know who Robert Hutchins and Mor Adler and all of them were University of Chicago, all that stuff.. There's this really great phrase in Robert Hutchins book he's looking back on the time when he was debating Dewey and all of that stuff was going on, and he says, at the time I really thought we were doing a good job. I really thought we were making headway. I really thought we were preserving the liberal tradition.   And I realize now that I was just a stopper in the bathtub. And it's a discouraging, it's sad actually, that, and it's hard not to feel that way sometimes. It's hard not to feel discouraged about where things are and to feel so small and to feel so insignificant, especially for all of us of us that aren't nearly as brilliant as you.   I would love to end by, and I don't know if maybe you need to think about this for a minute or whatever, but what could you say? What would you choose to say? To parents today, what is there 1, 2, 3 things that, this would be my recommendation for you. Whether it be something they could read, something they could watch, something they could do.   My answer is always educate yourself. Educate yourself. That's, we've got an academy. It's encourage our women to be lifelong learners. Try to point 'em to good resources. You've, you've been in this quite a lot, you have a very deep understanding of a lot of what's happening culturally.   So what advice would you give to the parents that are listening?   Without hesitation, the first thing to say is what you're doing matters. What you are doing actually matters. Especially as parents, you're raising the next generation.. So what you do for good matters and what you do for ill matters.   Where you decide to be lazy matters. Where you decide to be diligent matters, it makes a difference. There's this principle in the Moms for Liberty group of being joyful warriors. Not that they're the only people who ever thought of it, but obviously they've made it a big part of their brand.   And the one of the founders at the time who, she's moved on now is Tiffany Justice. And she said that she's a mother, right? She's I have four kids.   Yeah.   I don't wanna be angry all the time. I don't want them to lose their mother to my political advocacy. I need to be present for them. I need to be a smile on my face.   In a good mood, I can't be angry and miserable and frustrated all the time. So what you're doing matters. Your children are watching, your community is watching, your children are watching. So how you engage matters that you are, for you guys, lifelong learners matters. And in fact, that's related to that is, Zu and Art of War says, and I don't butcher it, but the gist is if you know your enemy and you know yourself, you don't need to fear any battle. If you only know yourself, but you don't know your enemy, for every battle you win, you'll also lose one. And then he says, if neither your enemy nor yourself. Then he basically says, you're gonna succumb in every battle.   You're gonna get your butt handed to you, right?. Lifelong learning, I think is actually key, but let's focus it. You need to know your enemy. And you need to know yourself. So what's your enemy? This the stuff that's coming in trying to disturb your way of life, and what is your self, it's your way of life.   So that means, who are we as a people that you know, politically, culturally, economically. You have to know those foundations. You have to, teach your children, those foundations. You have to increase in your understanding by teaching your children those foundations and engaging in them.   Who are we spiritually? If you're a person of faith, that's very important part of who you are and a very important part of who you're teaching your children to be.. The raising, educating, and discipling of children are the three kind of things that are usually brought up as the core functions of parents.   And so you need to be engaged in that, but that means you need to understand it. So, if you want to be on the. Avant garde of making a difference. You need to know who you are.. Politically, economically, socially. You need to understand the tenets of your country, the tenets of your faith.   The tenets of the long tradition in which of prosperity that we're all embedded. There's a lot to know about yourself that we've been able to take on cruise control for a lot of time. A lot of homeschool parents are not, but other parents, a lot of everybody is just taking it on cruise control.   Yeah. So there's a lot of fun stuff to do and know yourself and then knowing your enemy, like it depends on how you want to engage in the battle. Right. You have to prepare your kids for the road that they're going to walk one way or the other.. You can't go out and change the road.   Not much. You can change it a little, like your advocacy does matter. It can make a difference, but for the most part, you've gotta prepare your kids to walk the road. They're in this. Like we were just laughing about we live in this stupid postmodern world where these stupid arguments about what words mean, and if reality's real come up where everything's like race and gender all the time.   Yeah,   I know. You don't wanna engage with, that's not part of you want your kids to have a normal childhood. Sorry, that ship sailed. You have to engage them. We're very fortunate you could say, I just want my kid to have a normal childhood. Let's go back 400 years.   And I think there shouldn't be famines. No. You have to teach your kids to be ready for the famine when it comes. And it turns out right now what you have to teach your kids to be ready for is political warfare and brainwashing. Unfortunately.. But at least they're not as likely. Who knows what could happen if it goes bad to have to weather a famine, right?   So you have to prepare your kids for the road, which means you also have to learn. if All you wanna do is just tend to your own garden, your own children. You still have to learn some of the stuff.. But if you want to engage in advocacy, if you want to try to go be a part of a group that's making a difference, if you want to get involved at the local level in politics or just if you just want to have even like a Bible study that's culturally informed or a civics study,. It's, imagine the exact same thing as a Bible study, except you're doing like the Declaration of Independence.. PS by the way, a lot of people are surprised when they hear this. You can do that. It's allowed, right? It's like the idea of getting together and studying   called the book club goes all the way back to Benjamin Franklin.   Change the world with the book club..       All of that stuff. You have to enrich and understand if you wanna do that well, you have to be able to enrich and understand in comparison to the world that we actually live in.   Yeah. Which means unfortunately, you gotta learn some woke crap. So I, as you said educate. So you know, you matter. You need to get educated. A lot of kind of broad principles, like the goal of this thing is to make you despair, to make you want to quit. How do you not, you can't.   So how do you do? You can't quit for your kids, let 'em watch you quit. Yeah. That's great, mom.. So what do you do? Whether it's faith in your religious faith in God, whether it's faith in your country, whether it's faith in, just the principles that your family or the tradition.   Like you need that and you need to renew it, and you need to intentionally take measures to renew that. In other words, it's keep yourself healthy so that you can mentally, emotionally,. Physically, spiritually.. So that you can nourish others.. Is a really big thing.. There, there's lots more stuff, that could be said. I literally, I think I told you before we started, I am literally writing a book about this and there's 70 things. Oh, excited. And I don't wanna just start rattling them all off.   Mm-hmm.   And I could tell you the title, but I don't have one yet, so I don't know what the title of the book is.. I can't tease you with it enough. We haven't got that far.. We're just gonna write it first.. And there's principles in there love the truth, always do the right thing, even when there's consequences actually. Especially when there's consequences,   I also have very practical advice if you wanna be useful in the public policy or community. In that legalist way, learn to read legislation.   Yeah.   Learn to read woke, like we said, it's another language, another set of discourses.. You can't peel apart the document your kid's school sent home, unless you can read for keywords and buzzwords and decode what they mean.   So learn to read it and do the reading. But yeah, mostly my advice is just general and generic. Your kids are number one, you need to take care of them, and you need to remember that what you do matters. It doesn't matter how small you are.. Right. So I give this, talk.   Sometimes it's this really inspiring thing I say, people cry. It's exciting. So nobody is gonna crying. But one of my favorite scenes, and this is dorky, but one of my favorite scenes in Lord are the rings. Is when the tree people just went and, spoilers are coming. So the tree people just got really mad and went and destroyed the evil fortress of Orthanc.   . Right. And Isengard. So they couldn't destroy Orthanc actually, but they destroyed Isengard. So the tree people just did their thing. And then the wizard Gandalf is explaining what happened. And what happened was that these two hobbit characters, Merry and Pippin get captured by the bad orcs and dragged off and they escape into the forest in a dramatic scene.   And then they meet the tree people and they tell the tree people what's going on in the world. The tree people get pissed off and they go to destroy this thing. And so Gandalf's trying to relate this to other people and he says, I, in his very Gandalf way, I think the coming of Merry and Pippin to Fangorn Forest was like the loosening of two stones that fell in avalanche.   Wow.   And so I tell people, you don't have to be Gandalf. You can be just somebody who's kicked a small stone that hits another stone that the next thing you know, the side of the mountain's coming down. And I could probably sit here and different times, different talks. I come up with different people and I just start rattling off everyday normal people.   People whose names I don't even know in a lot of cases, who were the catalysts that triggered somebody to get involved, who became a really big deal, who made a gigantic difference. So even if you don't end up being the guy going to do the thing, or the mom going to, change the world, that conversation that you have at lunch might put an idea in somebody's head.   I give an example, I use a lot here is Billboard Chris. And everybody thinks, okay, so he was just a dad and now he does this thing in worldwide activism. He's made a huge dent in the gender ideology and transgender thing. Helped parents all over the world, but it's not billboard. Chris, who's the small stone billboard, Chris was at lunch with somebody who told him about puberty blockers, which he had never heard about before.. So somebody just had the courage or the gall or whatever to mention puberty blockers in Vancouver in front. I think in Vancouver, that's where he lives. In front of Chris. Chris is shocked by these two words next to each other, goes home, looks 'em up, finds out what they are, freaks out, starts his advocacy.   So the person, the unnamed person who happened to just be talking and mention that started an avalanche.   Yeah.   That's being a small stone. And I can't encourage you to realize how important that is. The bottom line there is that you, you need to be telling the truth as much as you can all the time.   . 'Cause when you tell the truth, you put truth into the world. And you don't know what that truth is gonna go do now that it's loose in the world.. And a truth, as I said in Dallas has the power to level any error. That it touches. That's the power of a truth. The example I gave is a very fun example where, imagine we have three really smart people in the room up on the stage, and we say, how wide is the room?   And they all give their guesses and they argue and one, different guesses and why they're Right. And their big important philosophers or whatever.. And all their argument doesn't get us any closer to the truth until the janitor walks in the back with a tape measure and then all of a sudden their reputations are on the line because they've all just made an ass of themselves defending their answer that's about to get showed out by the least of these pulling the tape measure and seeing how big the room really is.. Because the fact is it doesn't matter who they are. It doesn't matter what their state or stature is. It doesn't matter how much of an expert or how wholly or how politically important or how fantastic they are, how nice a guy they are, how good an arguer they are, how many people in the room they convinced by consensus that they're right.   It doesn't matter any of that. Once the actual measurement comes, once the truth shows up. Everybody who's right is vindicated and everybody who's wrong is shown to be an error.   And so when you put a truth out into the world about anything, you don't know where that truth's gonna go. It might not go far.   If you put 10,000 truths in the world, one of 'em might make it a pretty good distance.. And that truth will eventually through somebody else or through you or whatever, encounter an error that it levels and now you've cleaned up some error in the world.. So tell normal people and parents, especially a lot, to realize that it doesn't matter if you think you're just a regular mom or just small character and you're never gonna play a big role.   It's like you don't have to. And in fact, nobody's too small.   To make a difference.. Just. What do you do? You take care of your kids, you raise 'em. You tell the truth. You get involved where you can,. Just very basic stuff and it actually adds up. That's the idea of the American principle of self-governance.   If we're all taking care of our own stuff and taking care in a way where it ends up bleeding over through trade or exchange with our neighbors, then everything rises.   Yeah. That's beautiful.   It's the same principle.   Yeah. That's beautiful. So well said. There's something I was thinking about that came from you and a few other sources, and I started to understand over the last couple years that it really hit me that we are all responsible for our culture.   Our culture is creating the future, and what you're saying is that every single person that adds positively to that culture nurtures it. We're either nurturing a good culture or a bad culture. We're either paving the way for things to be better or for things to be worse. And, that's another reason why every single person matters, because they're part of the greater culture and they're responsible to it to try to nurture it, try to make it healthier.   And that's why it's so important that wherever you stand.   That's right. And   You just stand for whatever that is, even when it seems so tiny because you know what's right. And so you stand there and then there's enough of a standing and before you know it, the culture isn't quite as sick as. It was   That's right. And your kids are watching.   Yes. And what you do matters way more than what you say. So walk the walk.   Yeah. They'll notice a mismatch. Yep. They're smarter than they let on.   Yep. Yep. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much for being here. I've learned a lot again from you, learn from you every time I interact.   I'm so grateful for all the things that you shared with our audience that can go out and bless their lives. Hope everyone will pay attention to especially your newest book coming out that we don't know when it'll come out, but it'll be for us. And so we're excited. And anything else catch James at new discourses.   I think it's just new discourses.com, isn't it?   Yep.   And all kinds of resources. You're letting out podcasts, like just all the time and so many, the books and I don't know what other events you do, but. Check him out and we'll leave a bunch of links. Is there anything else? Is there other ways that I haven't mentioned that people can find you or engage with you or learn from you?   The people that wanna find me on social media it's a bit of a wild ride. I'm a wild creature on social media, but I got described as a talk one time as a knife fighter on social media...   Do you wanna watch the fight?   I try to be good, but. I'm   lose your patience sometimes?.   I have. No, not so much patience. I just, I have boundaries and, I will give as I get.. And I know that the biblical thing is, do not answer evil with evil, but bless. But man, there is nothing in there that says, do not answer a smart ass with something. Smart ass.. And so unfortunately it's a little wild.   It's not for everybody's taste, I hope it's for yours. But I am at Conceptual James, which is also a spelling test, by the way.. And I'm everywhere except Facebook. You can't find me on Facebook.. Facebook banned me for life and has not un banned me.. And I didn't like it anyway, so that was great.. I celebrated the day they kicked me off.   Okay. So at Conceptual James, we will link that as well. We'll link the website and the podcast and all the other resources. But it's been such a pleasure, such a treat. I just can't thank you enough. And thanks everyone for listening. We will see you next time.

Get Your 3 FREE Chapters of the Audiobook version of The Mission Driven Life: Discover and Fulfill Your Unique Contribution to the World: https://www.themissiondrivenmom.com/ The first in a series of upcoming podcasts answering questions “All About Life Mission,” this first installment begins at the beginning. If you’ve ever wondered what life mission is, this podcast gives you a perspective you may have never considered. Once you understand life mission in this way, it will be so much easier to see why life mission is so transformational—for you, for your family, for your community and beyond! Stay tuned for upcoming episodes answering more life mission questions such as:     1.    How does mission driven living work?    2.    Who are mission driven people?    3.    How can life mission help me solve my persistent problems?     4.    Does everyone have a life mission?    5.    Is life mission the same as life purpose?    6.    How can life mission help my family? And many more… _____________________ Podcast Transcript (AI generated) Welcome back to the podcast. I'm Audrey Rindlisbacher, the founder of the Mission Driven Mom and the author of The Mission Driven Life. If you haven’t yet, head over to themissiondrivenmom.com to get your free copy of the first three chapters of The Mission Driven Life: Discover and Fulfill Your Unique Contribution to the World. Make sure to grab those chapters, which will introduce you to the Seven Laws of Life Mission. They provide the backstory of the book and guide you on how to live a more mission-driven life, fulfilling your unique contribution to the world. Thank you for joining me today. 😊 If you're new to the podcast, consider going back to the beginning. In addition to listening to recent episodes, explore our series on the seven laws and various mission-driven stories. This will give you a comprehensive understanding of what we discuss and how it relates to principles and those seven laws. Today, we’ll talk a bit about what life mission is. I want to do a series of episodes addressing the various questions we receive at the Mission Driven Mom about Life Mission. We’ve noted down many of them, and you can look forward to these episodes in the weeks and months ahead, answering your questions about life mission—why it matters, how to discover it, what the seven laws are, and more. Let's begin at the beginning and discuss what Life Mission is. The best way to describe this to you is to imagine you live in a kingdom with the best king you can imagine. He is attentive, knows and loves his people, does what’s right and just, and always seeks improvement for his kingdom. You, living in this kingdom, feel like an average person with limited resources and unclear talents. Yet, you hold a desire to be useful. You love this king and wish to help him in any way possible. Despite feeling you have little to offer, you approach the king with a willing heart, ready to do whatever he asks because you trust him completely and know he loves the people. What would this good king do if someone approached him with such willingness? He would accept their help, regardless of self-perceived limitations, finding a role for them. Whether it’s delivering messages, taking dictation, or something else, he would use their abilities. Moreover, seeing this eagerness and willingness, the king would help them grow and develop to be even more useful. Starting with something small, he would match their abilities with the kingdom's needs, gradually increasing responsibilities as trust and capability grow. This dynamic allows both the king and the subject to thrive. The king accomplishes tasks with willing participants, and the subjects develop through their missions, understanding the bigger picture that only the king sees. When embarking on any task, even the smallest, the king ensures you are prepared and equipped with everything needed—be it keys, seals, or messages. You may not receive everything right away, but with trust, you will find what you need along the way. 🌟 As you perform tasks with dedication, you grow closer to the king, gaining more responsibilities and developing a deeper relationship rooted in mutual trust. You discover your potential and talents, which the king helps to nurture for greater challenges. This partnership with the king, who knows the realm’s needs, enriches your life with meaning and purpose. You become more like him, surrounded by others who share your dedication to making the world better. Together, you avoid self-doubt and embrace growth, focusing on improving yourself, your family, and your community with God’s guidance. Life Mission is about recognizing God as the ultimate authority, allowing him to guide you in his plan, and understanding that your willingness and trust are what truly matter. In this partnership, you rise to your potential, discovering more about yourself and achieving more than you ever could alone. Sometimes, people struggle with the concept of Life Mission, thinking it might feel mundane or inconsequential. However, as C.S. Lewis noted, even after his conversion, his life looked much the same, but now he did everything to the glory of God, changing everything. Now, with God’s guidance, you have a roadmap—the Seven Laws of Life Mission—to prepare yourself and partner with him. These laws, practiced by great men and women, show us how to live a mission-driven life, enriching our lives and those we serve. In essence, Life Mission is an errand given by God to serve others, representing him and striving to act as he would. Through this service, we and those we serve grow, enriching our lives deeply. It's important to know what Life Mission is not. It’s not self-serving or deceptive, but rather a true submission to God and truth. It’s not about accolades but about making a genuine contribution, trusting the king’s vision, and understanding that mission outcomes exceed expectations. As Dr. Frankl explained, don’t aim at success. Instead, dedicate yourself to a cause greater than yourself, allowing success to ensue naturally. The pursuit of success or happiness is not direct. Instead, these come as byproducts of dedicating oneself to a cause greater than oneself. The same principle applies to Life Mission. It's not something to be directly pursued, but something that naturally unfolds as you prepare and submit to the Seven Laws of Life Mission, aligning yourself with God's plan. By embracing the Seven Laws—loving God, loving yourself, loving truth, and loving humanity—you create a foundation for a mission-driven life. You become attuned to the callings already present in your life, recognizing that roles such as a parent or a leader at work are parts of your Life Mission. The key is to approach these roles with the mindset of service, letting God guide your actions. 🙏 Life Mission isn't restricted to a particular type of work. It is defined by the spirit in which you perform your work and who it is done for. By allowing God to lead, you transform everyday tasks into meaningful contributions, enriching not only your life but also the lives of those around you. Here's a brief summary of what Life Mission is not: It’s not self-serving; it’s focused on others. It’s not deceptive; it’s rooted in truth and integrity. It’s not about sacrificing others for personal gain. It’s not about appearances; it’s about genuine substance. It’s not resistant to self-critique; it embraces growth. It’s not irresponsible; it acknowledges and corrects mistakes. It’s not self-centered; it enriches others as well. Ultimately, true Life Mission requires submission to God and a willingness to embrace his guidance, trusting that the tasks he gives—no matter how small—serve a greater purpose. Through this, you discover your potential and contribute meaningfully to the world. At the Mission Driven Mom, we believe in this transformative process. We've witnessed over 600 women complete Level 1, with many continuing through the program to graduation. These women are now making a positive impact in the world, using their gifts and talents guided by a higher purpose. Thank you so much for joining me today. I hope this insight into Life Mission inspires you to explore your unique contributions. I look forward to seeing you next time!

Get your FREE Audiobook copy of The Mission Driven Life: Discover and Fulfill Your Unique Contribution to the World: https://www.themissiondrivenmom.com/ If you've spent much time in the self-help world, you know that pretty much everyone says that what you need to do if you want to be successful is to write affirmations. Yet, the practical application of that --when you really try to write and use affirmations in your real life--often does not work at all.  In fact, in many cases, using affirmations can actually make things worse! In this episode, Audrey explains why affirmations don't work, and exactly how they can lower your self-image and increase your discouragement...sometimes leading to giving up altogether. That's why Audrey offers you the BEST alternative possible--a tool that actually works, gives you confidence, increases your motivation, and inspires you to change! _____________________ PODCAST TRANSCRIPT (AI Generated)   Welcome back to the Mission Driven Mom podcast. I’m Audrey Rindlisbacher, author of The Mission Driven Life and founder of the Mission Driven Mom. Today I want to explain why you do not want to use affirmations. I know everybody is saying they’re a great idea. Maybe you’ve tried them yourself, or maybe you know someone who feels like they’ve had a little bit of success with them. But in reality, affirmations often make things worse—and there are very important reasons why that’s the case. Instead of affirmations, I’m going to share a skill you can use instead—something that’s powerful, practical, and easy to learn. In the Mission Driven Mom Academy, we dive deep into this skill. We run workshops, practice together, and study reading selections that help you really develop the habit and get good at it. But even just listening today, you’ll be able to understand the basics and start using it. So let’s begin by talking about why affirmations aren’t helpful. Imagine for a moment that you’re not at the weight you want to be. You want to be thinner, fitter, and healthier. So you decide to try affirmations. Everyone says you should write down your goal in the present tense—as if it’s already true. So you write something like: I am fit. I am healthy. I am thin. But here’s the problem. Robert Fritz put it perfectly: “Affirmations are automatic compensations for inadequacies you suspect you have.” In other words, the very reason you’re writing the affirmation is because you already believe you’re inadequate in that area. You think something’s wrong with you, and the affirmation is supposed to help convince you that you can be different. On the surface, that sounds positive—you want to believe you can change. But in reality, affirmations don’t create a “better self.” And this is one of the big reasons self-help strategies often fall short. Affirmations don’t actually work the way people think they do. Here’s what really happens. When you repeat an affirmation like, I am thin. I am fit, your brain immediately knows it isn’t true. It recognizes the lie. You aren’t thin and fit right now. You aren’t rich right now. You don’t have the perfect marriage right now. Whatever it is you’re affirming, your mind knows it’s false. So what gets triggered? A constant reminder of the opposite. If you need to say, I am thin, your brain says, Well, clearly I’m not—that’s why I need the affirmation in the first place. If you need to say, I am rich, your brain says, No, I’m poor—that’s why I’m repeating this. Inadvertently, affirmations reinforce the exact inadequacies you’re trying to overcome. Every day you tell yourself, I am this thing, while your brain responds, No, you’re not. And over time, instead of building confidence, you actually feel worse about yourself. Two, three, four weeks into repeating affirmations, you’re still not thin, healthy, or fit. You’ve been lying to yourself, and the gap between where you are and where you want to be just keeps growing. That gap compounds day by day, and the worse you feel about yourself, the more like a failure you seem to become. This is why affirmations so often backfire. People will try them, maybe even create a vision board with pictures of the person they want to be—but all it really does is remind them of what they’re not. Then what happens? People try to follow a workout plan or some kind of system, but as time goes by, they feel worse about themselves. A month passes, and they’re still not healthy, fit, or thin. So they give up. They throw their hands in the air and say, Forget it. It’s never going to work. I can’t do it. And that’s the sad part. Essentially, what they’ve done is spend a month affirming to themselves that they are not that thing. Sure enough, they’re not—and telling themselves that they are hasn’t changed anything. So they give up. Sometimes they give up altogether—not just on affirmations, but on the goal itself. They stop even trying to be healthy, fit, or whatever it was they wanted to become. Robert Fritz explains that this “compensation tactic” of using affirmations only reinforces the gap between your desired ideal and your current reality. And here’s why: goals already create tension. That’s what makes personal growth so hard. You have to hold the tension between who you are right now and who you want to become. And when you set a goal, that difference becomes even more obvious. The gap feels starker, more uncomfortable. Then, if you add affirmations on top of that—I am this thing right now—your brain knows it’s not true, and the tension only grows stronger. Now, some people will argue, Well, if you keep saying it, eventually you’ll brainwash yourself. Your brain will start to believe it, and then you’ll figure out how to accomplish it. And sure, there are cases where people persevere and eventually reach their goal. I’m not saying affirmations have never worked for anyone. But for most people, most of the time, if you’ve tried it at all, you know the truth: nothing really changes, and often you just end up feeling worse. Fritz also points out that motivation tells the whole story. Here you have a person who feels inadequate—not good enough, not organized enough, not rich enough—and is trying to prove to themselves that they’re the opposite. But deep down, they still feel inadequate. And think about it: what does it even mean to say, I am thin, fit, and healthy? How do you measure that? How do you know when you’ve arrived? Every day the affirmation just reminds you again that you’re not there yet. Even worse, as Fritz observes, a weak self-image often leads to harsh self-criticism. Instead of lifting yourself up, you put more pressure on yourself. You criticize yourself more intensely. Now, let me tell you—this is something I’ve seen again and again in the hundreds of women I’ve worked with. Many of them believe that if they stop focusing on their weaknesses, they won’t be able to change. I’ve had countless women say to me, If I don’t think about what’s wrong with me, how will I ever improve? But in the Academy, we take a completely different approach. Our entire framework is built on strengths. That’s why, in Level One, we have you take six, seven, sometimes eight different assessments and evaluations—because we want you to have supreme knowledge of yourself. We want you to see how amazing you are. When you begin working from a perspective of strength—believing in your gifts and leaning into them—you naturally start to grow. And as you engage in real work—whether in yourself, your home, or your community—your weaknesses will show up. Of course they will. But now, you’ll have the motivation to deal with them. You’ll either learn new skills, seek help, or partner with others whose strengths complement your weaknesses. And here’s the difference: it all comes from a place of confidence and self-knowledge. That’s why weaknesses don’t shut you down anymore. Instead of stopping you, they become opportunities to stretch, collaborate, and grow. I can’t tell you how many women have told me, If I don’t focus on what’s wrong with me, I’ll never get better. And I always say—it’s just not true. If you live and work from your strengths, your weaknesses will reveal themselves naturally. And when they do, you’ll have more motivation than ever to address them and keep moving forward. When you know that you’re awesome…when you know your strengths are needed…when you know you’re making a difference and that what you’re doing is working—then you can figure things out. You can go out and get the education you need, the skills, the tools, the principles that will help you get stronger in those weaker areas. But when you start from a place of weakness, it damages how you feel about yourself. You’re already feeling inadequate, and then you layer affirmations on top—reminding yourself every day of what you’re not. That’s a recipe for disaster. Of course you’re going to feel like a failure. I was at an event recently where we were asked to write little bios for a networking app. A young attorney—married, with a couple of beautiful kids—reached out to me. He had read just a few sentences on our website describing common pain points and desires. He said, You’ve described my wife to a T. He told me, She loves our children, she loves me, she loves God. We have a good marriage. And yet…she doesn’t even want to get out of bed in the morning. My heart just broke for her. I thought, I get it. I’ve been there. And most likely, she’s telling herself all day long about the ways she’s not good enough, the ways she’s not showing up. She doesn’t realize how brilliant she is. She doesn’t know how to solve problems with principles. She hasn’t identified her strengths through assessments. She hasn’t used even one of the dozen powerful tools I discovered over years of study—tools I built into the Academy to help women heal and grow. So many women believe the way forward is to focus on their weaknesses. Then they try affirmations, and end up feeling even worse. They think, Everyone says this should work. What’s wrong with me? Why can’t I just set a goal, do my affirmations, and have it all come together? But I’m here to say: No. That’s the wrong lens. You need a completely different approach—a lens of strengths and principles. The truth is, there’s nothing wrong with you. You are not broken. You’ve just been given the wrong information. You’ve never been shown how principles can help you, how truth can set you free, or how working from your strengths can actually create lasting growth. That’s what we do at the Mission Driven Mom. Robert Fritz explains that once affirmations fail, people often turn on themselves. He says the purpose of this self-attack is “deterrence”—the hope that, with enough warning and self-incrimination, you’ll be more careful about living up to your ideal next time. Sound familiar? Women tell me this all the time. I shouldn’t be so hard on myself, they say. But then they beat themselves up anyway. I did it for years, so I know exactly how it feels. You’re trying everything people say will work, but it doesn’t—and now you’re criticizing yourself for criticizing yourself. And it often gets worse when you seek outside help. Maybe you hire a life coach, go to therapy, or sign up for an online course. One of my students told me she had tried all of that—therapy, books, online programs. None of it worked. It was only through the Mission Driven Mom Academy—learning empowering principles, identifying her strengths, leading herself, and deepening her relationship with God—that she finally healed from childhood trauma. Today she feels grounded, fulfilled, purposeful, and confident. Why? Because the other tools weren’t addressing the real issue. Affirmations, self-admonishment, even well-meaning “help” can all reinforce the same painful cycle: I’m not who I want to be. I try to change. I feel worse. Now I’m even more convinced I’m broken. Robert Fritz says it this way: The more help the person gets, the less likely they are to be helped—because the help often reinforces the original conflict. Instead of closing the gap between who you are and who you want to be, it widens it. Every attempt to fix it only deepens the discouragement. And that’s why I’m urging you to stay away from affirmations. They can actually make things worse. I’d hate for you to pour your heart into them, only to end up more discouraged than when you began. So really, honestly, mothers and women—you should not be doing affirmations. You should be doing something else instead. Because otherwise, you end up on this helpless, hopeless hamster wheel. You’re running and running, trying to be your best, trying to do good, trying to find the help and answers you need. You’re trying to believe you’re good enough, trying to be confident—yet you never seem to arrive. And the longer this goes on, the more you feel like you’re failing. You aren’t reaching your ideals—ideals that may not even be realistic in the first place. So you start to feel like a failure in your own life, and the discouragement and depression just deepen. It’s a lose-lose-lose situation. But here’s the truth: you are so much better than this. Your life can be so different. I promised you that every week on this podcast we would explore the Seven Laws of Life Mission: Loving God Loving yourself Loving truth Loving humanity Hearing the call Courageously executing And then doing it again and again And today, we’re diving deeply into the foundation: loving God and loving yourself. Caring for yourself properly is one of the most misunderstood concepts in the world today. I could spend all day talking about how people get it wrong. And I know that’s true, because we’ve helped hundreds of women transform their lives through the Mission Driven Mom. Our program changes you from the inside out, because it gives you a new lens for seeing yourself and the world. Once that lens is in place, you can never go back to the way you used to see things. So let’s talk about some principles of self-care—the principles underneath the law of loving yourself—and what they have to do with affirmations. Here’s the first one: you and I believe what we tell ourselves. I’ve shared this story many times, but let me briefly tell it again in case you haven’t heard it. Years ago, I was struggling in many areas of life—my marriage, my home, even my health and finances. Then I was introduced to classical liberal education. I studied the greats. I learned about natural law and first principles. And I started searching for the principles that could set me free. Each step of the way, I applied those principles, and they changed me. That doesn’t mean my problems magically disappeared. But I became different. I showed up differently. And that meant the problems no longer stopped my growth. During that time, I attended a women’s class. The teacher randomly handed out roses to a dozen women. Then she asked those women to come up, place their rose in a vase at the front of the room, and share one good thing about themselves. One by one, women went up. And one by one, they said something self-deprecating. I’m good at eating chocolate. I’m good at sleeping in. I’m good at yelling at my kids. I’m good at having a messy house. Out of twelve women, only the very last one said anything remotely kind about herself. At first, people chuckled. But by the end, my heart was broken. I couldn’t believe that these women—women I knew to be incredible, amazing human beings—would speak that way about themselves. And here’s why it hit me so hard: we believe what we tell ourselves. What we say about ourselves, about others, about the world—over time, it sinks in. It becomes part of what we believe. The problem with affirmations is that they’re lies we’re trying to convince ourselves are true. That creates incongruity. It sets up a mental battle, a war within ourselves. It’s unpleasant. It’s discouraging. And it doesn’t work. And when we talk this way to others—when we repeat self-deprecating lines out loud—we just reinforce the negative image and feel worse. So here’s another principle I want you to understand before I give you a powerful tool that will change everything. At first, this tool may seem subtle. You may think, Well, isn’t that just like affirmations? But I promise—it is night-and-day different. And the results it produces are radically different. The second principle is this: our negative feelings and thoughts are not caused by our circumstances. They’re caused by what we tell ourselves about our circumstances. That’s such a key truth. When we understand that what we tell ourselves tends to become what we believe—unless it’s a lie, in which case we end up at war with ourselves—then we can see how powerful our self-talk really is. Our feelings don’t come from the outside world; they come from the way we interpret and describe our world to ourselves. So if you’re having a lot of feelings you don’t want—stress, discouragement, frustration—those feelings are being caused by your thoughts and words. Most people don’t make this connection. They go out into the world, complain about their circumstances, talk badly about themselves, and then wonder why they don’t feel happy or excited for life. The problem is, it feels so real. The dishes aren’t done. Your husband was rude last night. Your kids aren’t listening. Those may be facts, but they’re not the whole truth. This brings me to the tool I want to share with you today: Telling Yourself the Truth. It’s so powerful. Even when there are undeniable facts in your life, you may think you’re simply “telling the truth” when you talk about them. But often you’re only telling half-truths. You’re stuck in the facts without seeing the bigger reality. That’s why affirmations fail—they’re lies dressed up as truth. But half-truths also fail, because they limit you. The truth—whole truth—always liberates. It always sets you free. So what you need to do is start telling yourself the whole truth. Before I share some examples, let me pause for just a moment. If this concept is resonating with you—if you want real mentoring, practice, and accountability to master this skill—consider joining our Academy. That’s where we do deep dives into principles like this one. And if you’re enjoying the podcast, please take a minute to leave a review, subscribe, and share it with a friend. That helps others find us, and it helps us grow. If you’re new here, you can also go back and listen from the beginning. We’ve reordered episodes so you can walk through the Seven Laws of Life Mission step by step, hear inspiring mission-driven stories, and get grounded in the principles that will set you free. Okay—back to truth-telling. Here’s an example I know many women can relate to: being overweight. Example 1: Weight An affirmation might sound like this: I’m thin, healthy, and fit. But immediately, your brain rejects it. Because your brain wants to believe you. It wants to trust that you’re an honest, integrous person. And when you say something that clearly isn’t true, your brain fights back: No you’re not. That inner war creates resistance and discouragement. Truth statements, however, feel completely different. When you tell yourself the truth, your brain relaxes. It agrees. It gets on board. And natural motivation follows. Here are some truth statements you could say if you genuinely feel overweight but want to be healthy and fit: I can make choices today that will increase the health of my body. I want to have a healthier body. God wants me to have a healthy body. God will help me learn about health and nutrition so I can make more informed choices. Do you hear the difference? Every single one of those is true. And because they’re true, your brain says, Yes—that’s right. And as you repeat them, they empower you. They excite you. They point you toward what’s possible. That’s the power of telling yourself the truth. It doesn’t speak to what is not. It speaks to what can be. That moves you forward and motivates you to take action. You might start with something as simple as: “I can learn what it means to have a healthy body. I can do that. I’m going to start today. And God will help me.” Pretty soon, you’re engaging with ideas and materials that inspire you. Notice, too, that the affirmation “I am thin, healthy, and fit” has no action attached. It communicates nothing. At The Mission-Driven Mom, we teach what we call actionable principles—truths that are true for everyone, all the time, and framed in such a way that natural actions logically follow. When you tell yourself the truth, you’re making actionable statements. For example: “I want to have a healthier body.” That’s motivating. It’s energizing. Instead of saying, “I’m so sick. Look at my belly. I hate how I look,” or lying to yourself with, “I’m thin and healthy and fit,” you could simply say, “I want to be healthier. I’m working on that.” That’s forward-looking. It’s optimistic. It’s intentional. It’s true. And because your mind and body know it’s true, they align with it. The more you tell yourself true statements, the more momentum you gain. Motivation snowballs. This reminds me of a book I once read about weight loss. The author described a skill she called “Monkey Bars.” She said, “If you’re not where you want to be in some area of your life, just tell yourself the next monkey bar belief.” And the first one is always: “I want this thing.” That one shift removes all the negativity of self-deprecation and the falsehood of affirmations. Looping back—the reason these truth statements work is because you instantly believe yourself. You respect yourself for telling the truth. You feel real motivation to move forward. You focus on what’s good and right about you and your circumstances. Your mind starts solving problems instead of fighting lies. And your self-confidence naturally grows. Let me give you a few more examples. Example 2: Children’s choices If your children are making choices you don’t like, affirmations might sound like: “I’m okay with what they’re doing”—but that’s not true. And because it’s not true, it only discourages you more. Instead, here are some empowering truth statements: My children can learn from their mistakes. I’m not responsible for other people’s choices. I worked hard to be a good mom, and I’m proud of that. I can show my children unconditional love, even if I don’t like their choices. These are true, actionable, and deeply empowering. Example 3: Career dissatisfaction You might be tempted to say: “I love my job,” or “I have a thriving business.” But if that’s not your reality, your brain rejects it. Instead, you could say: I can do my job with integrity while I look for other work. I can learn more about myself so I can determine the best work for me. I choose to show up at work and give my best, even when it isn’t fun. These truth statements move you forward. They free you from discouragement. When you practice truth statements, you’ll feel the difference. You’ll feel liberated from self-deprecating thoughts, freed from affirmations that create inner conflict, and empowered to live with integrity. Remember: you are not a victim of your emotions. You will never find peace if you constantly put yourself down. But you are in control of your own happiness. I’ve seen hundreds of women in our Academy completely transform their lives just by mastering this one skill. Affirmations won’t get you there. Truth will. So if you’re in a circumstance you don’t like, if you’re stuck in negative emotions, resist the urge to put yourself down—or to prop yourself up with empty affirmations. Instead, tell yourself the truth. Tell yourself what’s real, what’s possible, and what you can do today. That’s how you build a life you love. A life that’s beautiful, noble, and worthy of you. Because the truth always sets you free. Thank you so much for joining me today. It’s been a joy to talk through these principles with you. I hope they uplift, inspire, and ennoble you—and give you the tools you need to move forward if you’re stuck. If you haven’t yet downloaded your free audiobook copy of The Mission-Driven Life: Discover and Fulfill Your Unique Contribution to the World, head over to themissiondrivenmom.com and grab it today. I don’t know how much longer it will be free, so make sure to do that soon. I’ll see you next time.

Get Your FREE Audiobook of The Mission Driven Life: Discover and Fulfill Your Unique Contribution to the World: https://www.themissiondrivenmom.com/ It was such a joy to learn about the life and work of William Penn! The sacrifices he made to hold true to his conscience and faith are awe-inspiring. His famous words, spoken when he was facing life imprisonment for not recanting his defense of the Quaker faith, demonstrate his incredible character and courage:  “Thou must tell my father, whom I know will ask thee these words, that my prison shall be my grave before I will budge a jot, for I owe my conscience to no mortal man. I have no need to fear—God will make amends for all.” Having spent his younger years defending his faith, he spent his later years defending his colony--Pennsylvania. When, by a miracle, he was granted the largest tract of land ever given to a citizen, his only thought was to create a haven of religious tolerance, liberty and self-government for people of all races, cultures and faiths. It is humbly to learn about the pain he went through to establish those laws and keep them in force until the American revolution.  In this mission driven story, you'll not only be humbled by the works and life of William Penn, you'll see the 7 Laws of Life Mission in action in the life a great man--and be inspired to work on preparing for you own God-given life missions.  Check out other Mission Driven Stories here: https://www.themissiondrivenmom.com/podcasts/the-mission-driven-mom-podcast   ____________________ PODCAST TRANSCRIPT (AI Transcript)   Alright, welcome back to the podcast! I'm Audrey Rindlisbacher, author of The Mission-Driven Life and founder of The Mission-Driven Mom. I’m so glad you’re here with me today. We’re going to do something fun—we’ll be talking about William Penn in a mission-driven story. We’ll get to him in just a minute. If you’re new to the show, go right ahead and keep listening to recent episodes. But you might want to go back to the beginning of this series. In those early episodes, I go in-depth on the Seven Laws of Life Mission and why we do what we do here. That background might give you a better foundation and a deeper grasp of what we’re about. Of course, you’ll also want to head over to themissiondrivenmom.com and grab your free copy of the audiobook The Mission-Driven Life. In it, I take an in-depth look at the Seven Laws of Life Mission, how the Ten Boom family lived them, and how they can completely transform your life—helping you discover and fulfill your own unique contributions to the world. I don’t know how much longer that audiobook will be free, so make sure to grab it while you can. Now, before we jump into William Penn, let me answer a question I get a lot: Why do I share these mission-driven stories in the first place? There are several reasons. First, they help you gain better insight into the Seven Laws. Seeing these laws lived out by great men and women makes them easier to understand. Second, these stories prove the effectiveness of the laws. They show that those who had the most positive impact in the world consistently lived by them. As leaders in their homes, communities, and sometimes even nations, they always returned to those foundational principles. The more mission-driven stories we hear, the more faith we gain in the laws’ ability to give us a solid foundation and set us firmly on the path of mission. And we’re reminded that, just like these men and women—who often had their own struggles when they were young—we too can grow into something greater. And third, these stories are simply inspiring. Spending time with some of the best people who have ever lived allows their goodness and nobility to rub off on us. Their examples put our own lives and sacrifices in better context when we see what others have endured for truth and goodness. I’ve said this often, but after reading The Hiding Place for the first time, I would climb into bed every night genuinely grateful that I wasn’t in a concentration camp like Corrie and Betsy ten Boom. Their example humbled me, made me grateful, and kept them top of mind—because I wanted to be like them. One of the things I point out in my book is that the Ten Booms were my idols. I really wanted to become like them. And as I read Corrie’s other books, I realized they weren’t always the incredible people I first imagined. They were good and wholesome, yes, but they also had a lot of struggles to overcome—just like I do, and just like you probably do. Maybe you have struggles in your marriage, with your finances, with your health, or with your confidence. Maybe you’re not sure what your gifts and talents are, or you don’t know what next steps to take. Maybe you’re just struggling to get out of bed in the morning because life doesn’t feel exciting and you long for a deeper purpose. Those are exactly the kinds of challenges we address here at The Mission-Driven Mom—on this podcast, in my book The Mission-Driven Life, and especially in the Academy, where we walk you step by step from survival mode into thriving, growing, and developing into your best self. So with that in mind, let’s dive into William Penn. Now, I knew he was the founder of Pennsylvania, but honestly, I didn’t know much more than that. As I learned about him, I discovered his life is an incredible story. He was born in 1644 in England, and if you know anything about England in the 1600s, it was not a pretty time. There was almost constant religious persecution. As leadership shifted—through Cromwell, kings, and sudden deaths—the dominant religious affiliation would change. Whatever religion the leader supported was favored, and everyone else was persecuted. Leaders would promise tolerance, but those promises were quickly broken. This is the environment William grew up in. When he was three years old, he contracted smallpox. It nearly killed him, but he survived. The illness left him bald for much of his childhood, so he wore wigs. Thankfully, as an adult, his hair grew back. By the time William was four, Cromwell had taken power, executed King Charles, and unleashed major social unrest. He sent troops to Ireland to suppress resistance and began expanding his control there—really tragic events. Meanwhile, William’s father was a high-ranking naval general. By the time William was small, his father was second in command of the Royal Navy. Because of his service, the king granted him an estate, Macroom Castle in Ireland, along with the surrounding lands. You can still find pictures of it online—it’s pretty incredible. So William grew up in a well-known family. His father was connected to the king, they were financially comfortable, and they even collected rents from their estate. As a boy, William was sent to Chigwell School, a few miles from home. He started around age five and would run to school each day. Classes began at 6 a.m.—can you imagine? These little kids had incredibly long days. William studied catechism and prayers, and then subjects like Greek, English literature, English grammar, Latin, spelling, and moral training, well into the afternoon. But William was a smart kid, and that served him well. School wasn’t particularly difficult for him, and his intelligence would be a blessing throughout his life. As he grew a little older—around nine, ten, eleven years old—Cromwell sent William’s father on a mission. Admiral Penn didn’t carry it out the way Cromwell wanted, and when he returned, Cromwell threw him into the Tower of London for a time. Eventually, Cromwell couldn’t find legitimate charges to hold him on, so he had to release him. But the experience deeply disgraced Admiral Penn and his family. Wanting a fresh start, Admiral Penn took his family to their estate in Ireland when William was about eleven. He brought many of his people with him, got the estate organized, and set about running it. Because William’s father believed there wasn’t a school good enough nearby, William didn’t attend school for the next four years. Instead, he worked alongside his father, helping manage the estate and doing what they called “man’s work.” But William didn’t like how his father treated people. Admiral Penn was a hard, rough man. He had gone to sea as a boy—probably around eight or nine years old—had his own ship by seventeen, and spent much of his life at war. So what happened next truly shocked William. One day, while they were in Ireland, word came of a Quaker preacher passing through. The Quaker movement was still relatively new, founded by George Fox only a few decades earlier, and it was spreading slowly across England and beyond. William was stunned to hear his father say, “If you see him, tell him I welcome him here. He may hold a meeting in our home if he wishes. There’s plenty of food and room for him. We shouldn’t judge him. I’ve been judged unfairly myself, and I won’t judge others.” So the preacher, Thomas Loe, came to their home, shared a sermon, and it was so beautiful and moving that it brought William to tears. When he looked over at his father—this stern, battle-hardened man—he saw him crying too. It was the only time William ever saw his father cry. Here’s a taste of what Thomas Loe preached to them, taken from one of his tracts: “True religion is not a matter of outward observances. Rather, it takes place within the heart. It is not rooted in past events in a far-off land, but in the true inner light that shone then and continues to shine today. Men must follow this inner light until it illuminates their hearts and they experience closeness with God. No priest or clergyman can mediate this. Each man, in the quiet of his heart, must come to his own reckoning with God. For the scriptures tell us that man looks on the outward appearance, but God looks at the heart.” That message stayed with William. Though the family didn’t convert, he remembered the experience fondly. It made him think more deeply about his spiritual life, his relationship with God, and the kind of man he wanted to become. After four years in Ireland, Cromwell and his son both died, and the country sought to restore the monarchy. They invited Prince Charles back, made him promise certain reforms, and crowned him king. Of course, Charles broke his promises soon after—no surprise there. But because Admiral Penn had done so much for Charles’s father before his execution, the new king knighted Admiral Penn, raising the family to nobility. William and his father also had close ties to James, Charles’s brother, which would prove significant later in William’s life. When William was fifteen or sixteen, the family returned to England, and he was sent off to Oxford. He was delighted. But Oxford, like much of England, had been a battleground during the upheavals. When Cromwell had taken power, he installed a Puritan headmaster, and the Puritans eliminated sports, group activities, and other traditions. When Charles regained the throne, leadership shifted again, creating more tension. At one point, William saw fellow students beat a Quaker for his beliefs. Having had his own beautiful encounter with Quakers, he was disturbed and chose to distance himself from the mainstream students. Instead, he befriended Puritans and even visited Dr. John Owen, a respected Puritan thinker. At Owen’s home, William engaged in deep discussions about religion, philosophy, and government—the very things stirring in his heart and mind. But his refusal to conform caused trouble. He resisted wearing certain required religious garments and skipped daily services. After repeated warnings, he was expelled. When he returned home, his father was outraged. He beat William severely, and it took him time to heal. William’s parents then consulted and decided to send him abroad. It was fashionable for wealthy young men to tour Europe, so at eighteen William set out with letters of introduction to influential figures. He met leading men of the time, developed a taste for fine clothing, learned French, and had an “okay” experience. But he longed for the deep discussions he’d had at Oxford and with Thomas Loe. The highlight of his trip was meeting Moses Amyraut, a famous French theologian. William enrolled at the Protestant Academy in Saumur, where Amyraut taught. For nearly a year he studied, grew, and engaged in profound conversations under Amyraut’s mentorship. But then Amyraut died unexpectedly, and by spring, with school out, William decided it was time to return home. Now, though, he was different. He had gained strong, logical reasons for following his conscience. And based on his experiences—with Quakers, Puritans, Protestants, and especially his mentor Amyraut—William made a personal promise: from then on, he would always follow his conscience. Like I’ve said in past podcasts, almost everyone I’ve ever studied who truly did great good in the world made this same commitment—to follow their conscience. It’s that important. William’s father knew how much he loved discussion and ideas. So when William returned home, Admiral Penn wondered what to do with him. He decided to have him study law at Lincoln’s Inn. William spent about a year there, until he was around twenty. And then—the plague broke out. This was the terrible London plague. We don’t know the exact numbers, but it wiped out a huge portion of the city’s population. At times, up to 6,000 people a week were dying. Officials couldn’t keep up. In some cases, they would board up houses where the plague was present, sealing families inside without access to food or water. Some died of starvation rather than the plague itself. Each day, workers knocked on doors and dragged out the dead. It was horrific. Naturally, schools closed, and William returned home. Their family, living outside the city, was spared. But during this time, something made a deep impression on William: the Quakers’ response to the plague. At great personal risk, they went house to house bringing food, even to families locked inside. They helped remove bodies, they cared for the sick. They faced not only the risk of death by plague but also public mockery and persecution. Yet they kept going, doing good. Reflecting on this, William remembered what his mentor Moses Amyraut had taught him: piety alone isn’t enough. True morality demands that a man take responsibility for his brother. And that’s exactly what he saw the Quakers doing. By now, William was twenty-one. His father realized William could legally represent him, so he sent him back to Ireland to manage the family estate. William didn’t get along well with his father, so he was glad to go. While he was there, the Great Fire of London swept through the city. The fire raged for days, destroying up to two-thirds of the buildings. Ironically, it also ended the plague. Meanwhile in Ireland, William was looking for a good tailor—he still loved fine clothing—and wandered into a small shop run by a plainly dressed woman. They struck up a conversation, and she mentioned she was a Quaker. William told her he had once heard a Quaker preacher named Thomas Loe. At first she didn’t believe him, but when he recalled specific things Loe had taught, she realized he was telling the truth. She invited him to a secret Quaker meeting, since persecution in Ireland forced them underground. And she told him that Thomas Loe himself would be preaching. William eagerly went. Hearing Loe again moved him to tears, touching the deepest parts of his heart. By this point, with all he had been learning, he was ready to hear Loe’s message: obey conscience, be true to the light of Christ within, and live your religion through your daily life. He stayed late into the night speaking with Loe, who emphasized that real faith is love, peace, and following the light of conscience illuminated by Jesus Christ. Not long afterward, William attended another meeting. Suddenly, a soldier burst in, determined to arrest everyone. William, not yet a declared Quaker, was outraged. He was strong and furious at the interruption. He grabbed the soldier and dragged him toward the staircase, ready to throw him down. But the Quakers begged him to stop. “We are pacifists. This is not how we live. Please, let him go.” So William released him, and the man fled. The soldier soon returned with reinforcements, and everyone was arrested. In court, the judge was startled to see William Penn—son of Admiral Penn, heir to a noble family—among the prisoners. He told William he could go free. But William faced a moment of conscience. He declared openly, “I am a Quaker too.” And with that, he stayed with his friends and went to prison with them. His legal training proved invaluable, as he pressed the authorities to state under what law they were being held. Eventually, he won their release. This became a pattern: his education and sharp legal mind would serve the Quakers again and again. When his father learned William had declared himself a Quaker, he was livid. He demanded William return home. William did—but he brought another Quaker with him, partly as protection. He feared his father might beat him again, and William, now a strong man, didn’t want to fight back or dishonor him. The next day, father and son rode together to an inn. In a private upstairs room, Admiral Penn confronted him: “What you’re doing is ridiculous. You’re disgracing me. If you continue, not even I—with all my influence—will be able to protect you. You will lose your life, and I will lose my career for raising such a son.” William refused to budge. His father then said he would pray that God would make William stop being a Quaker. William pleaded, “Don’t say that prayer!” But the conversation was interrupted and left unresolved. Over time, Admiral Penn pressed him again and again: “You must give this up. You can’t be a Quaker and be my son.” But William held firm. Finally, his father threw him out of the house and threatened to disinherit him. At twenty-four years old, William Penn was homeless and penniless. He took refuge with the Quakers—and it was there, spending time in their community, that he realized something powerful. He realized that their founder, George Fox, was a really eloquent speaker, but he’d never had much of an education. As a result, he wasn’t a very strong writer. William decided it would be his role to defend the faith in writing. So he began publishing essays and pamphlets, using an underground printer to get them out. Eventually, he was caught and imprisoned. He was locked in a room alone, with no visitors or books, and told that unless he recanted, he would spend the rest of his life in prison. We know what he said during that time because his words were written down. His father was petitioning for his release, but the condition was clear: William had to renounce his beliefs. His response, at just 24 years old, is astounding. He said: “Thou must tell my father, whom I know will ask thee these words, that my prison shall be my grave before I will budge a jot, for I owe my conscience to no mortal man. I have no need to fear—God will make amends for all.” At that point, he was fully prepared to die for his faith and his conscience. A little while later, he was allowed pen and paper. Using only his memory, he wrote powerfully. One author noted that in a single work he quoted 64 different thinkers—from Socrates to Martin Luther—and cited over 400 passages from the Bible. In another essay on Quaker beliefs, he wrote No Cross, No Crown, promising himself he would find a way to smuggle it out of the Tower of London. You can still find that work today—it’s available online. William wrote many essays during his life. Eventually, he was released—not because of a change of heart, but because it reflected badly on his father, a knighted nobleman, to have his son languishing in prison. The condition of his release was that his father would be responsible for him for one year. And what did his father do? He sent him back to Ireland to manage the estate again. On the way, William stayed with a Quaker family, where he met his future wife. She was remarkable—educated, intelligent, and deeply faithful. Not many women, even among the upper class, were educated at that time, but she was. They quickly formed a strong connection and fell deeply in love, though they didn’t marry for another three or four years. While in Ireland, William threw himself into both managing the estate and helping Quakers, especially those imprisoned for their beliefs. He appealed to wealthy, influential people for funds and urged them to use their influence to free the prisoners. Eventually, with the estate running smoothly, William returned to England. Not long after, he led a prayer meeting on a street corner. That bold, public act got him arrested once again. William would go to prison many times during his life, but this particular trial had an especially fascinating outcome. When asked to plead guilty or not guilty, he first asked whether he would have a fair trial. Assured that he would, he agreed. In court, he proved that he had broken no law. The judge, determined to punish him for his faith, instructed the jury to find him guilty. But the jury refused. Frustrated, the judge sent both William and his friend—along with the entire jury—to prison overnight. The next day, he demanded a different verdict. The jury returned with essentially the same finding: William Penn was not guilty. This cycle repeated several times. Finally, the judge fined them heavily and imprisoned them until the fine was paid. Eventually, William’s father paid his fine, and William was released. Soon after, he was summoned to his father’s deathbed. Meanwhile, the jurors who had stood their ground later sued the judge for obstructing justice—and won. That case set an important precedent in England: juries must be independent, and judges could not force their verdicts. At his father’s bedside, William was surprised by his final words. His father said: “Let nothing in this world tempt you to wrong your conscience. I charge you, do nothing against your conscience. So will you keep peace at home, which will be a feast to you in a day of trouble.” Despite earlier threats, William’s father had not removed him from the will. Upon his death, William inherited the family estate and became instantly wealthy. Yet his wealth, noble standing, and friendships—even with men like James, Duke of York—were not enough to keep him out of prison. Just five months after his father’s death, William was again arrested for leading a Quaker meeting and sentenced to six months. At least this time he knew when his release would come. The prison conditions were harsh, but William found comfort in the fellowship of his fellow prisoners. He also found his pen again. Out of that imprisonment came perhaps his greatest work: The Great Case for Liberty of Conscience. This pamphlet would leave an incredible legacy—one that still affects you and me today. Written in 1670, when William was only 26 years old, it laid out arguments for why forcing religious conformity is destructive. Let me share some of his key points: Religious coercion dishonors God. Only God can rule the conscience. Forced worship is an abomination. True faith must be voluntary and come from inner conviction, not external pressure. Persecution never creates true religion. History shows forced conformity breeds hypocrisy, bitterness, and civil unrest, not genuine piety. Coercion violates reason and natural rights. Drawing on natural law, Penn argued that individuals have a God-given right to liberty of conscience. It is irrational to punish private beliefs that do not disturb civil peace. Liberty of conscience strengthens society. He pointed to tolerant Holland as an example of prosperity, while persecution created instability and weakened governments. Persecution contradicts scripture. Penn emphasized Jesus’ teaching: “Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s.” Civil rulers have no authority over the private conscience. Penn concluded that coercion undermines everything: the honor of God, the power of Christianity, the authority of scripture, the principles of reason and natural law, the well-being of government and society, and the wisdom of both ancient and modern thinkers. One historian called Penn’s tract “the completest exposition of the theory of toleration at the time.” As a side note: during this period, William Penn met John Locke while touring Europe, and he was also friends with John Bunyan, who wrote Pilgrim’s Progress while imprisoned around the same time. In 1672, William married Gulielma Springett. He hoped his life would grow more peaceful, but it was not to be. Their first baby girl died at just seven weeks old. In fact, William and his two wives would have 13 children between them, but 11 of those children died during his lifetime. His life was filled with loss and trial. Yet, even amid grief, William and Gulielma’s love for each other endured. With some financial independence, he poured himself into his mission: helping the Quakers with his resources, legal training, education, eloquence, and pen. He even traveled abroad for months at a time to defend them. But eventually, his financial advisor warned him that his funds were running low—and William was forced to scale back. Instead of stopping that work, he chose to live in a more modest home so he could continue serving the Quakers. Now, of course, at this time all the civil unrest and religious persecution was happening in England. I won’t get into all of that—you can look it up—but it was pretty miserable. From one day to the next, someone might be in power who didn’t like what you believed. Whether you were Catholic, Protestant, Quaker, or Puritan, there was always somebody in charge who opposed at least one of those groups. And that meant you were in trouble. William Penn was just done with it. He was sick of it. He decided that if he could get his own tract of land in America—if the king would grant it—he could finally have a place of religious freedom. What he really wanted was to create a refuge in America for his fellow Quakers and for anyone else suffering persecution. That became his dream: I’ve been fighting here for years. Let’s just go build a safe place where we can live together in peace. And then something miraculous happened. He petitioned the king for land between Maryland and New Jersey, and to his utter shock—and everyone else’s—the king granted it. Partly to repay an old debt to William’s father, the king gave him the largest charter of land ever: 45,000 square miles. That’s almost 29 million acres, making Penn the largest private landholder in the world. We don’t know exactly why the king did it—maybe to clear the debt, maybe because he trusted Penn’s intentions—but whatever the reason, it was truly miraculous. That land, of course, became Pennsylvania. Now, there are three key things William Penn did immediately after receiving this land grant—which, by the way, was given to him within just a few days, almost overnight. He had already been thinking about this for a long time. He called it his “Holy Experiment.” For him, it was 100% driven by his love for God and his desire to provide greater freedom for as many people as possible. With that pure intention, God blessed him with such a vast tract of land where he could live out this dream—a blessing to countless others. First, he needed to name it. Penn wanted to call it Sylvania—which means “forest”—because the area was heavily wooded. But King Charles insisted that Penn’s name be included. That wasn’t the Quaker way; Penn didn’t want to name anything after himself. Finally, the king convinced him by saying he should name it after his father, Sir William Penn. And so, reluctantly, he agreed. To Penn, it was in honor of his father, and the colony became Pennsylvania. He was given full freedom to do whatever he wanted with the land. The crown trusted him completely. He was only 36 years old at the time. Isn’t that incredible? He would live another 30-plus years, and while Pennsylvania became a tremendous blessing to the world, for Penn himself it was also a source of great trial and struggle. He spent the rest of his life fighting to bring his vision for Pennsylvania to fruition. The first thing he did after receiving the charter was write three letters. This alone speaks volumes about his character and intentions. The first was to Robert Turner, an old Quaker friend. He wrote: “It is a clear and just thing, and my God has given it to me through many difficulties. I believe He will bless it and make it the seed of a nation. I shall have a tender care for the government, that it will be well laid at the start.” His vision was clear: Pennsylvania would be founded on fair laws and become the seed of a nation—which, of course, it was. His foresight is incredible. The second letter was to the roughly one thousand people already living in Pennsylvania. He wrote: “My friends, I hope you will not be troubled by this change. You are now fixed at the mercy of no governor who comes only to make his fortune. You shall be governed by laws of your own making and live free, and, if you will, as a sober and industrious people. I shall not usurp the right of any or oppress his person. God has furnished me with a better resolution and given me the grace to keep it.” In other words, God had touched him, instilling in him a desire to serve selflessly. His only goal was to be a good governor and to make the people as free and prosperous as possible. The third letter was to the Native Americans in the area. He began: “My friends, there is one great God and Power who made the world and all things in it, to whom you and I and all people owe our being and well-being, and to whom you and I must one day give an account for all we have done in the world.” He went on to say that he wanted to enjoy Pennsylvania with their love and consent, so that they might always live together as neighbors and friends. He wrote: “What would the great God say to us if we devour and destroy one another, when He has made us to live soberly and kindly together in the world? I am very aware of the unkindness and injustice that have too often been shown toward you by those who sought to profit from you, rather than be examples of justice and goodness. I am not such a man. I have great love and regard for you, and I desire to gain your friendship through a kind, just, and peaceable life. The people I send are of the same mind. I shall shortly come to see you myself, at which time we may more freely confer.” And true to his word, when Penn finally arrived in Pennsylvania, one of the first things he did was meet with the Native Americans. He worked hard to learn their difficult language so he could speak with them directly. He paid them for land the king had granted him if they claimed it, and then he laid the foundations for Philadelphia. He named it “Philadelphia,” meaning “brotherly love,” because that was his vision for the city. Not long after, however, disputes arose. The governor of Maryland claimed that part of Philadelphia belonged to him. The charters conflicted in their boundary descriptions, so Penn had to fight the matter in English courts. This became his first major legal battle for Pennsylvania, and it kept him in England for several years. When he eventually returned and later left Pennsylvania again, the Native Americans gave him this beautiful tribute: “Besides that he paid us for our lands, which no governor ever did before, we hope the great king of the English will be good and kind to him and his children. We have confidence that we and our children will be well treated and encouraged to live among the Christians, according to the agreement we have solemnly made—as long as the sun and moon endure, with one head, one mouth, and one heart. We could say much of his good counsel and instructions, which he often gave us—to live sober and virtuous lives as the best way to please the great God and be happy here and forever. But let this suffice to the great king and his wise men, in love to our good friend and brother William Penn.” They truly admired and respected him, recognizing him as a just and honorable man. Because of the laws he established and the way he treated the Native Americans, Philadelphia flourished. People of a dozen different faiths lived together in peace and harmony. They walked side by side in the streets without conflict. It is no coincidence that Philadelphia became the seat of government in early America—the place where the Continental Congress met, where the Constitution was written, and where the greatest freedoms first took root. Later, while back in England, Penn experienced the greatest betrayal of his life. Robert, the man he had entrusted with his financial affairs decades earlier, died. Not long after, Robert’s widow approached Penn, waving a contract he had forgotten about. Years earlier, when Penn was fighting for Pennsylvania and feared losing it, Robert had convinced him to sign the colony over to him unconditionally. The plan was that if Penn lost it, Robert could hold it safely and return it later. If not, they would tear up the agreement. Trusting Robert completely, Penn had signed. And then the battle dragged on for years… And because the battle dragged on for so long, William forgot about the contract. Robert never mentioned it again. But when Robert wrote his will, he kept the contract and left it to his wife. She was not a kind woman, and she came to William Penn lording it over him, saying, “Look, I own Pennsylvania now. You’ll have to pay me 11,000 pounds for it, or I’ll keep it and become the governor myself.” Penn was devastated. He excused her from the room and broke down in tears. He wept because he was tired of constantly fighting for Pennsylvania. He wept because it was once again under threat. He wept because this woman was actually threatening to take over as governor. And, of course, he didn’t have 11,000 pounds to pay her. But most of all, he wept because of the great betrayal—discovering that his dear friend and fellow Quaker, whom he had trusted completely, had deceived him all along. As Penn’s advisors combed through Robert’s financial records—many of which were incomplete or missing—they discovered that Robert had been cheating him for years. He had written himself contracts, taken parcels of land, and essentially stolen from Penn all along. So began many more years of struggle as Penn fought Robert’s widow for Pennsylvania. Eventually, he cleared the matter and the colony was restored to him, but not without enormous heartache and difficulty. During this period, his wife died, leaving him with two surviving children. Believing they needed a mother, he remarried. His second wife bore several more children, though many of them also died young. By this time Penn was in his sixties, weary from decades of battles. All he wanted was to return to Pennsylvania and rest. He even considered handing the colony back to Parliament so he could simply live there in peace. His only condition was that they preserve the laws he had put in place. Parliament refused, saying they would govern the land however they wished. So, Penn refused to give it up and moved back to his estate outside Philadelphia—about 20 or 30 miles away. It was beautiful, a true sanctuary for his family. But not long after returning, he suffered his first stroke. He recovered fairly quickly, but within a few years he had more strokes that left him debilitated. Eventually, he could no longer read, write, or care for himself. He died from these complications in Pennsylvania. And here’s something fascinating: because of his stroke, the paperwork transferring Pennsylvania back to the Crown was never completed. The Penn family retained official ownership of Pennsylvania until the Revolutionary War, when all royal charters were dissolved. It’s remarkable, really. You wouldn’t expect a stroke to be a blessing, but God used even that. Despite the betrayal and constant battles, Penn remained pure in heart, without greed or selfish ambition. Because of his character, Pennsylvania stayed under his family’s control. That meant the laws he had established remained in force until the Revolution—keeping Pennsylvania one of the freest places in the world. In 1751, a bell was hung in the Pennsylvania State House in Philadelphia to commemorate the 50th anniversary of Penn’s Charter of Privileges, written in 1701. The inscription read: “Proclaim liberty throughout the land unto all the inhabitants thereof.” In 1776, that same bell—the Liberty Bell—rang out at the signing of the Declaration of Independence, proclaiming liberty to all who heard it. Although William Penn spent only a small portion of his life in Pennsylvania, his influence there was profound. When delegates gathered in Philadelphia in 1787 to draft the Constitution, Penn’s ideals—liberty, justice, fairness, and tolerance—guided much of their thinking. Thomas Jefferson even called William Penn “the greatest lawgiver the world has produced.” Penn’s “Holy Experiment” had a lasting impact on American religious freedom. Pennsylvania became one of the most religiously tolerant places in the world at the time. His progressive ideas directly influenced the framers of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, embedding religious liberty into the foundation of American law. Penn wrote in his Charter of Privileges that “no people can be truly happy, though under the greatest enjoyment of civil liberties, if deprived of the freedom of their consciences.” He believed good government could never coerce faith or require conformity, but must respect individual beliefs. That conviction made Pennsylvania prosperous and peaceful, and its influence spread far beyond—throughout America and the world. The principles he lived and championed truly changed history. You and I owe much of the freedom we enjoy today to this mission-driven man. And if you’re familiar with the Seven Laws of Life Mission, you probably noticed them woven throughout his story. Let’s recap to see how Penn embodied each of them: Loving God: Establishing His Divine Center. Penn built a deep relationship with God through prayer, scripture, and obedience. He was even imprisoned rather than disobey his conscience, which he knew to be God’s voice within him. Loving Himself: Striving for Self-Mastery. He continually governed himself, developing discipline and restraint as he grew. Meeting His Real Needs. He cared for his health, his spirit, and his relationships as best he could, while always nurturing his soul. Discovering and Developing His Talents. He educated himself at Oxford and law school, became a prolific writer, and used his gifts in service to others. Loving Truth: Striving to Understand and Apply Principles. He studied law, government, economics, and scripture. He even convened the first meeting of colonial governors to discuss cooperation and fair trade. Loving Humanity. Penn respected people of all faiths, races, and backgrounds. In Pennsylvania, people of a dozen religions—and the Native Americans—lived together in peace. He sought refuge for all, not just the Quakers. Hearing and Answering the Call. From the moment he encountered the Quakers, Penn felt called to something greater. He gave his resources, energy, and life to serve God and humanity through his “Holy Experiment.” Through all of this, William Penn truly lived a mission-driven life—and his legacy of liberty continues to bless us today. And he heard the call when he was at Oxford, wanting to befriend others and live according to his conscience. He heard the call when he began writing tracts—even in prison. He heard the call when he was given the opportunity to be freed, but declared, “No, I am a Quaker.” He heard the call every time the Quakers needed his help—whether as their attorney, as their champion speaking to wealthy patrons, or even to the king or his brother. Whatever was needed, William Penn responded. He heard the call to be a husband. He heard the call to be a father. And then came the greatest call of all: “Here are 45,000 acres. You are the richest landholder in the world. What will you do with this incredible gift?” William Penn called it his “Holy Experiment.” He consecrated it to God and gave it to the people who lived there. He never pursued wealth for himself—he only tried to collect rent to fund a functioning government and to put laws in place that protected religious freedom and self-governance. Even though he longed to simply rest at his beautiful Pennsylvania home, where he had built a modest house and garden, he spent most of his life fighting for the people he loved. He embodied true servant leadership. And his courage was unmatched—whether declaring, “This tower, this prison will be my grave,” rather than deny his faith, or defending liberty again and again. The Seven Laws of Life Mission shine clearly through his life. They are always present in those who leave a profoundly positive impact on their families, their communities, and the world. People like William Penn don’t betray others or step on them to get ahead. Instead, they choose the higher path, and their sacrifices ripple outward for generations. The reverberations of William Penn’s sacrifices—over his 68 or 70 years on earth—still echo today. You and I continue to reap the benefits of his defense of conscience, the laws he established, and the unity he sought for America. 📍 I love sharing his story with you. I hope it inspires you. I hope it stirs in you a greater desire to pursue your own life mission with intention and courage. Discover your unique gifts, lay them at the feet of God, and let Him partner with you to fulfill your purpose—so you can bless your family, your community, and the world beyond. Thank you so much for being here today. If you’d like to understand these Seven Laws of Life Mission in a deeper way, and see them lived out in the Ten Boom family, go get The Mission Driven Life audiobook for free. And of course, keep listening to more mission-driven stories right here on this podcast. Thank you again for joining me and for staying all the way through. I’ll see you next time.

Grab Your FREE Audiobook Copy of The Mission Driven Life: Discover and Fulfill Your Unique Contribution to the World: https://www.themissiondrivenmom.com/. Unfortunately none of us were given the skills for discovering and living true principles in our education! That lack is wreaking havoc in our lives because we don't always know how to discern what is true. Even worse, we don't have the principles we need that can free us from the persistant problems we face.  In this episode Audrey spend a few minutes in the great classic The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn, demonstrating how a simple tool of the 5 Types of Questions can put us on the path to discovering and living truth.  Join her to gain one simple skill that will uplevel your reading forever! Listen to "The Battle Within: Your Two Consciences at War" here: https://www.themissiondrivenmom.com/podcasts/the-mission-driven-mom-podcast/episodes/2149056424 _________________ PODCAST TRANSCRIPT (AI Generated)  Welcome back to the podcast! I’m Audrey Rindlisbacher, author of The Mission-Driven Life: Discover and Fulfill Your Unique Contribution to the World, and founder of The Mission-Driven Mom and the MDM Academy. I’m so glad you could join me today. We’re going to talk for a few minutes about how to find principles as we read—using The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn as our text. These are vital, critical life skills. This is something we specialize in at the MDM Academy, and it aligns with the Third Law of Life Mission: Love Truth. Align Your Life with Principles. Here’s a little summary of that law: You have a conviction that God governs the world through natural laws and principles. You understand the nature of principles and can identify them wherever they are found—regardless of who is delivering the information, how they deliver it, or the form in which it’s delivered. You are a devoted truth-seeker who endeavors to find and live according to true principles. You teach principles in your home and work toward their application in every area of your life. That’s what it means to align your life with principles. Here are the three principles under the Law of Loving Truth: Understand the nature of true principles. Search for principles in every area of your life. Apply true principles no matter how tough it gets. That’s what we’ll be talking about today. I’m going to introduce you to a little bit of the method we use to do this and then break down a portion of Huckleberry Finn for you. If you’re new to the show, you’ll definitely want to keep listening to new episodes, but I’d highly encourage you to go back to the beginning. We’ve reordered the podcast so it becomes a journey—walking you through the different concepts and the detailed episodes on the Seven Laws and many of their principles. That will help you get up to speed. You’ll also hear lots of mission-driven stories about great men and women whose influence in the world was decidedly positive. It’ll be a really fun journey for you. And if you haven’t already done so, please head over to themissiondrivenmom.com and grab your free copy of the book The Mission-Driven Life: Discover and Fulfill Your Unique Contribution to the World. We’ve recorded the most updated version of that book, and we’d love for you to become acquainted with the Seven Laws for free. If you’d like a hard copy, you can also order one there—it’s about $17. So again, thank you for being here today. We’re diving into Law Three, and we’re going to talk about The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn. I’ll give you a little bit of backstory in case you’ve never read this great classic. It is hilarious and highly entertaining. If you’ve got LibriVox—an app that provides free audiobooks in the public domain—the reader for The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn is phenomenal. LibriVox is spelled L-I-B-R-I-V-O-X. I highly recommend you get that app if you don’t have it; there are lots of good books there. The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn is the follow-up to The Adventures of Tom Sawyer. In Tom Sawyer, Tom is the main character, with Huckleberry Finn as his sidekick. Huck has been raised by an abusive, alcoholic father. He’s the poorest of the poor, often living outdoors, never having much of anything. In the climax of Tom Sawyer (and I hope this isn’t a spoiler—it’s a very old book!), Tom and Huck find treasure in a cave and become rich. So Mark Twain followed up with The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn. It’s such an important book—maybe some of you read it in school. It captures that time and place perfectly. At the beginning, Twain notes that he worked very hard to make sure the dialects in the book are correct. That’s why the LibriVox reader is so good—he can read all those dialects authentically. When we meet Huck again, he’s wealthy from the treasure, and Widow Douglas has taken him in—since, as usual, Huck’s father has disappeared. She wants to bring him up to be a proper man. She dresses him, puts him in a bed, sends him to school and to church—all the “civilized” things Huck has never known. He doesn’t quite know what to do with himself, but he’s trying to get along. Early in the book, Huck complains about being civilized, but he’s also getting a little more comfortable with it. Then he has this conversation with the Widow, and I want to read it to you because it’s so fun and entertaining: “She told me to pray every day and whatever I asked for, I would get it. But it warn’t so. I tried it once. I got a fish line, but no hooks. It warn’t any good to me without hooks. I tried for the hooks three or four times, but somehow I couldn’t make it work. By and by, one day I asked Miss Watson to try it for me, but she said I was a fool. She never told me why, and I couldn’t make it out no way.” So Huck thinks prayer is for getting stuff. He prays for hooks, doesn’t get them, asks Miss Watson to pray for him, and she tells him he’s foolish—but never explains why. “I sat down one time back in the woods and had a long think about it. I says to myself: if a body can get anything they pray for, why don’t Deacon Winn get back the money he lost on pork? Why can’t the Widow get back her silver snuffbox that was stole? Why can’t Miss Watson fat up? No, says I to myself, there ain’t nothing in it. I went and told the Widow about it, and she said the thing a body could get by praying for it was spiritual gifts. This was too many for me, but she told me what she meant—I must help other people, do everything I could for them, and never think about myself. This included Miss Watson, as I took it. I went out in the woods and turned it over in my mind a long time, but I couldn’t see no advantage about it—except for the other people. So at last I reckoned I wouldn’t worry about it anymore, but just let it go.” Later Huck says: “Sometimes the Widow would talk about Providence in a way to make a body’s mouth water. But maybe the next day, Miss Watson would take hold and knock it all down again. I judged I could see there was two Providences. And a poor chap would stand a considerable show with the Widow’s Providence. But if Miss Watson’s got him, there warn’t no help for him anymore.” Here we have a boy with zero acquaintance with religion, trying to make sense of God. And what’s fascinating is—he’s interested. He’s watching people around him have spiritual experiences. He’s even going out into the woods to think and ponder. He really does care. And I think sometimes people care a lot more than we give them credit for. Huck wasn’t given credit for his efforts, but he was genuinely trying. This is exactly what we love to do in our programs—help people read, learn, look at life, current events, or literature, and distill truth from it. So, let me show you briefly how I’d approach this text. At the Academy, we teach five types of questions. They help us find principles, learn, and have rich discussions. Questions are a powerful tool we don’t use enough. The first type is a knowledge question: What’s going on here? We’ve just answered that—Huck is trying to understand prayer and God, but he’s confused. Then we move to why questions: Why is this happening? Why is the Widow trying to civilize Huck? Why is he resisting? Why is she teaching him about God? Why is he pondering it? Those “why” questions open up deeper truths. The tragedy of our public school system is that it often stops at the first type of question—knowledge. Once students can repeat the facts, we assume they understand. But true understanding, connection, and application only come by climbing deeper—layer after layer—through thoughtful questioning. I don’t have time in this short podcast to go through all five types or to answer all these questions. But if I were teaching this in a group, with my kids, or in the MDM Academy, that’s exactly what we’d do. We’d ask why—and one answer might be: the Widow knows the blessing God could be in Huck’s life. And why does Huck care? Because there’s something inside him that sees the value in it and is curious about it. I believe that’s because we are children of God, and so we naturally desire to know Him. All of this could lead us into a beautiful discussion about why this is happening at all. And that takes us to the next layer of questioning—the one I want to focus on today—which is: What’s the truth here? What’s the underlying principle in this story? Now, what we want to do—and this is something we practice constantly in the Academy and in our programs—is identify the first principles. First principles are part of natural law. They are ideas and concepts that are true for everyone, everywhere, all the time. They’re things we intuitively know. For example: I intuitively know I have a right to protect my life. I intuitively know I have the right to say what I want, even if it hurts someone’s feelings. I intuitively know I have the right to own things. Natural rights like these are actually where we start with our students when we’re teaching about truth and how to live as truth-seekers. Because they’re so innate and universally understood, they’re a perfect starting point for learning how to identify and live by true principles. And I would argue that one of those first principles we all intuitively know is that there is a higher being—something beyond this world and beyond ourselves. There are many reasons I believe this, but one powerful reason is this: throughout the history of the world, and even today, over 90% of people believe in God or a higher power. That’s way too significant a number across the entire human race to dismiss. It’s not reasonable to say that all of those people, across time and culture, are just ignorant or foolish. Even those who say they don’t believe in God often define themselves in relation to the God they claim doesn’t exist—which, in itself, is very telling. So I would say: a first principle here is simply that there is a God, and we intuitively know this deep inside. Because of that truth, the Widow Douglas is trying to teach Huck about God in ways that she hopes will help him live more effectively. Now, another really key first principle in Huck’s story—which no one seems to be teaching him—is that his earthly father may be a mess, but he has a Heavenly Father who is good. Huck’s biological father is abusive and absent. But the reality that there is a God, that He is Huck’s Father, and that He loves him—that could change everything for Huck. Those truths could ground his life and give him the foundation he desperately needs. Instead, what Huck is being taught are practices—like going to church, reading scripture, or praying—without the underlying first principles. And that’s the problem. Prayer, for instance, is actually a first principle of worship. If there is a God, then we should worship Him. And prayer is one way we do that. But if Huck doesn’t know why prayer matters—if he doesn’t know who God is, that God is his Father, and that God loves him—then prayer will seem meaningless. First principles always tell us why. Why we do what we do. Why something matters. That’s what Huck is missing. And yet, notice when the Widow talks to him about Providence—about God—he says it “makes a body’s mouth water.” Why? Because Huck wants those things to be true. It inspires him. It brings what we would call the Spirit into his heart. So he thinks, “Wow, this God sounds really good. I’d love to know Him.” But then someone else comes along and confuses the issue. And because Huck hasn’t been grounded in first principles, he doesn’t know how to make sense of it all. That’s why Huck goes out into the woods to think about it—but he can’t make any sense of it. Once we’ve identified some first principles in any situation we’re trying to discern—whether it’s a current event, who to vote for, or how to handle something differently with our child—those principles help us understand why. They give us clarity about what truly governs the situation. In Huck Finn’s case, the first principle is that he needs to understand there is a loving Father in Heaven who wants to have a relationship with him. If Huck grasped that truth, it could give him the motivation to pray and to keep trying to build that relationship. Prayer is one of the means to do that. But all of the advice Huck gets about prayer is muddled and confusing. When I’ve taught these concepts before—whether in a class, a workshop, or a speaking event—I’ll often pause and ask the audience: If you were in this situation with Huckleberry Finn, what would you say to him? How would you resolve his concerns? We write those responses on the board, or reflect them back in discussion. And here’s what usually happens: most of what people suggest are applications. Now, this is something we emphasize a lot in the Academy: there are three levels—first principles, principles, and applications. I introduce this framework briefly in The Mission-Driven Life, and I dive much deeper in my upcoming book How Truth Makes You Free (part one is already with my editor!). Of course, if you join the MDM Academy, we’ll walk you through this step by step. But here’s the point: what people typically tell Huck are applications. Applications are personal. For example, the way I pray and the way you pray probably look very different. We’re doing the same general activity, but the details vary widely. Do we pray out loud or silently? Do we use scripture in our prayers? Do we pray alone or with others? Do we pray for a long time or a short time? Do we sing our prayers, write them down, or simply think them? There are a million possible applications. Prayer itself is a principle. It’s true for everyone, all the time, and it flows naturally from the first principle that God exists and we should build a relationship with Him. But the way we personally practice prayer—that’s the application. Now here’s something really important: true principles aren’t usually intuitively obvious the way first principles are. First principles are innate—we just know them. But principles often need to be taught, discovered, or sought out. That’s why so much of what we do at The Mission-Driven Mom, in my books, and in our programs is to help people become truth-seekers. We want you to know why you do what you do—the first principles. Then we teach you how to uncover the principles that govern that area of life. And once you know those, you can create your own applications that fit your unique circumstances. This process works in every area of life. There are principles of health and wellness, principles of organization, principles of business, principles of marriage—every area is governed by true principles. Whatever problem you’re facing, you can overcome it by identifying the principles in play and then creating applications that work for you. A really good example of this is Jesus’s prayer. When Jesus prayed, His prayer was short, simple, and powerful—because it was essentially a list of principles. It’s a model. He shows us: You have a Father. You should obey Him. He is also my Father, and I obey Him. He has laws we are meant to follow—what C.S. Lewis called “the rules for running the human machine.” Jesus says, “After this manner, therefore pray ye.” Notice He doesn’t say, “Repeat this exact prayer.” There’s nothing wrong with reciting it, but His intent was to give us a framework—an outline of principles of prayer. It begins: “Our Father which art in heaven.” — Start by addressing God directly: “I want to talk with You. I want to build a relationship with You.” “Hallowed be Thy name.” — Offer worship. Immediately establish the relationship: He is God, you are not. You honor and revere Him. “Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.” — Acknowledge His will above your own. Commit to obeying Him. Recognize that He makes the rules, not you, and that our task is to bring His will to earth, just as it’s already done in heaven. That’s the structure—the list of principles. It’s not about reciting words; it’s about understanding and applying the principles of prayer. “Give us this day our daily bread.” So you ask for the basic things that you need to survive, and also those things that will enrich your life. Then you forgive: “Forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.” This is actually a principle. We go into a lot of depth on the principle of forgiveness in the Academy. Jesus and other great leaders throughout history have taught extensively about the importance of forgiveness for our mental, emotional, and spiritual health. Forgiveness is absolutely vital. It’s life-giving—it’s like breathing air. Resentment is the great killer of our souls, and forgiveness is the great nurturer. So this is a key element: we will be forgiven, but only as we forgive. Our forgiveness is vital to our own emotional and mental health. And then we’re asking for His forgiveness. We’re saying, in essence, “We’re willing to forgive others if You’re willing to forgive us,” because we understand that’s a conditional principle. So we repent, ask for forgiveness, clean ourselves up, and then make ourselves right with our brothers and sisters here on earth by forgiving them as well. These are all pieces of a quality prayer. These are all principles of prayer. “Lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.” We don’t want to do what’s wrong; we want to do what’s right. Help us avoid whatever is evil. And then again, we give glory and power up to God at the end: “For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, forever. Amen.” That worshipful close again establishes the proper relationship. We know that we owe everything to Him. We know that He’s in charge—not us. We are His servants, His children, and so we want to do things His way. The problem for Huckleberry Finn is that the people around him are doing in his day what people today still do. Maybe if he had spent more time with a pastor—or maybe part of what the widow did for him—when it got really good and Huck was willing to ponder about it, those were the moments when she was teaching those first principles. Principles that had the light of truth in them, principles that would have illuminated Huck’s heart and mind. Truth lights us on fire because we recognize it when we hear it. That got him interested enough to try the experiment. But for Huck, the application of prayer was limited—he only understood prayer as a way to “get stuff.” There’s only one line in this entire list of prayer principles that Jesus lays out for us that’s about getting anything. And even then, it’s not about wealth or possessions. Huck didn’t understand the many other principles that could have helped him. This is such a helpful construction. It’s a very good example of how, like Huck, we get caught up in our own problems. We have a certain lens through which we see the world. We can’t see beyond it. We don’t understand. We haven’t taken the time to get at the “why,” to understand the first principles we’re trying to align with, and then to see what principles might flow from them. There are many other principles of establishing a relationship with God besides prayer—but the principles of prayer are vital. Huck needed to understand them as such and then be given the freedom to live out prayer, to apply these principles in any way, to any situation, at any time, through practice. We talk about practicing principles a lot. In the Academy we say: uncover and write actionable principles—principles that can be practiced. That’s what’s most helpful. And then ask: how can we practice them? As you go through the Academy, you also learn application tools—principles for applying principles. This is such a good example of how we often get caught up in our problems and can’t figure out how to solve them, because we don’t yet have the tools. Like Huck, we spin our wheels. We get frustrated. Sometimes we throw our hands up in the air and give up. Sometimes we decide this is just our lot in life. Sometimes we rebel against our circumstances and do something radically different, hoping it will make life feel different. But the real answer lies in the struggle itself. That struggle is happening in our lives because there’s something critical we need to learn. We can see this clearly with Huck. We want him to have a relationship with his Father in Heaven. It would be such a boon, such a support, such a comfort, because he doesn’t have a healthy earthly father. But he’s blocked from forming that relationship—blocked by his own ignorance of first principles, and by the lack of proper teaching around him. Now, a really good podcast to listen to in conjunction with this one is the recent episode on the Two Consciences. If you pair those together—and also look up other episodes on principles (just go to themissiondrivenmom.com, click on “Podcasts,” and type “principles” in the search bar)—you’ll find a lot more depth. Stephen Covey taught that living according to principles is the foundation upon which lasting success and happiness is built. We must be truth seekers, and we must also have the skills and tools to do that. In the past, when classical liberal arts education was mainstream, people had more tools. That’s why when you read older documents—or the writings of those who lived 150+ years ago, especially in the West—you see words like natural law, first principles, truth, duty, virtue, and character. These were all wrapped up in an approach to life and to problems that was incredibly liberating. Classical liberal arts education is literally the root of liberty. It’s an education to make you free. The truth can—and will—make you and me free, if we know how to recognize it, articulate it, and apply it properly. That’s at the heart of everything I’m about, and everything we’re doing here. I’ve seen these ideas revolutionize and transform the lives of hundreds of students. I’ve seen them help thousands of others who’ve read The Mission-Driven Life. And I want that for you. That’s why I thought this little demonstration from Huck Finn would be so helpful. Later in the story, Huck’s inability to connect with God and pray becomes a roadblock when he faces another moral dilemma. As I talk about in the Two Consciences podcast, there’s a battle in his heart between the social conscience and the divine conscience. He thinks, because of what he’s been taught in the South, that slavery is right and that he ought to return his friend Jim to his slaveholder. He wrestles with this, and without prayer, without connection to God, without understanding his divine conscience, the struggle is very real for him. In the end, Huck is our hero because he chooses to follow his true divine conscience instead of what society is telling him. He chooses to protect Jim. That’s so endearing and so beautiful. There’s so much in that book to notice, but for now, I hope you can see how even one simple tool—like asking the five types of questions—can help us become better discerners, better truth seekers, and better at laying our lives on a foundation of true principles. That’s what we want to empower you to do. I hope this little window into living by principles—and the value and power of first principles—was enlightening for you today. Thank you so much for joining me. Don’t forget to get your free copy of The Mission-Driven Life: Discover and Fulfill Your Unique Contribution to the World at themissiondrivenmom.com. Thank you for being here—and I’ll see you next time.

Get Your FREE Audiobook of The Mission Driven Life: Discover and Fulfill Your Unique Contribution to the World: https://www.themissiondrivenmom.com/ It is kind of mind-blowing to realize just how much of our life is controlled by our own beliefs and paradigms--even our relationships! So often our frustrations, disappointments, and lack of connection are things WE are actually creating, without even realizing it.  In this podcast Audrey asks: How are you seeing them? as an introduction to a conversation with yourself about how you might be contributing to your relationship problems and living out the drama cycle unknowingly.  Stay tuned for engaging stories and the KEY to seeing everyone, especially yourself, as a CREATOR! Listen with: EP 116: Creator Mode: Escaping the Victim Mentality for Good Listen with: EP 115: One Shift Away: The Secret to Your Mission Driven Life ______________________ PODCAST TRANSCRIPT (AI Generated)  Welcome back to the podcast. I'm Audrey Rindlisbacher, author of The Mission Driven Life and Founder of the Mission-Driven Mom. I'm so excited that you’re joining me today. We’re going to talk about some really interesting things. If you’re new to this podcast, you can just keep listening along. But you may also want to go back to the very beginning and do a little binge-listening. You’ll get a deep dive into the Seven Laws of Life Mission, hear a bunch of mission-driven stories, and really get a good sense of what we do here—why you can live a mission-driven life, and how that will change the way you see the world, the way you see yourself, and the way you live. If you haven’t gone to themissiondrivenmom.com and grabbed your copy of The Mission-Driven Life: Discover and Fulfill Your Unique Contribution to the World, please go get your free copy of the audiobook. It’s available right on the homepage, and it’s the full version—so there’s no reason you can’t fully understand what Mission-Driven Living is and begin engaging in it yourself. In that book, I tell the story of the Ten Boom family. There are many mission-driven stories I could share—as you know, I often talk here on the podcast about men and women who lived those Seven Laws and how they did it. The Ten Booms are incredible, amazing heroes of mine. They saved the lives of over 800 Jews during World War II—and they did so much more than that. But the great thing about the Ten Booms is that they didn’t always “have it together”—just like you and I don’t always have it together. And by following in their footsteps, we can learn to become a little bit more like them. The Seven Laws help us to do exactly that. The Story of Jack I want to tell you a story today about a little boy—this is really fascinating. One day, little Jack was walking down the street when, tragically, he was hit by a school bus. From the moment of the accident and in the weeks that followed, his mother always referred to it as “the horrible accident.” Every day she told the story: Jack had been hit by a bus, he had broken both legs, and now he was in a wheelchair. She felt terribly guilty that she hadn’t been there to protect him—although, of course, how could she have been?—and seeing him in a wheelchair was extremely difficult for her. The doctors, however, were confident. They saw no reason Jack wouldn’t make a full recovery. But his mother kept warning him that his legs might not ever fully heal. She wanted him to be “prepared” that he might never run or play soccer again like the other kids. When doctors cleared Jack to return to school, his mom and dad were convinced that seeing school buses every day would be too traumatic. They decided instead that his mother would quit her job and homeschool him for the rest of the year. They also believed that seeing his friends play at recess while he was in a wheelchair would be unbearable—so, again, they thought it was better to just keep him home. At home, Jack usually finished his schoolwork in the mornings. The rest of the day he filled with TV and video games. Within just a few weeks, his mood tanked. He became more and more depressed. His parents assumed the depression meant the accident had traumatized him more deeply than they had thought. So they found a child therapist who specialized in trauma and brought Jack to see her. When Jack’s mother wheeled him into the office, he sat silently, staring at the floor. He was embarrassed, depressed, and sad. His mother began: “We’re having such a hard time with this terrible accident. It’s really ruined our lives and caused so many emotional problems for Jack. He’s just not the same little boy.” To her surprise, the therapist didn’t respond with sympathy. Instead, she turned enthusiastically to Jack and said: “Boy, have I been looking forward to meeting you, Jack! I’ve never met a kid who could beat a school bus. You have to tell me—how did you manage to get into a fight with a school bus and win?” For the first time since the accident, Jack smiled. Over the next few weeks, Jack worked with the therapist on a creative project: making his own book. He titled it How to Beat a School Bus. In it, he wrote a wonderful story about how he had fought a school bus and escaped with only a few broken bones. He even ended the book with a drawing of himself in a wheelchair wearing a superhero cape. With the therapist’s encouragement, Jack returned to school and soon became a normal, happy, well-adjusted boy again. But the therapist also had to work with Jack’s parents. She helped them see the core issue—the message of today’s podcast: they were seeing Jack wrong. What Went Wrong Why was Jack’s mother treating him this way? I don’t know all the reasons, but here are some: Fear. She feared Jack wouldn’t fully recover. She feared the “what ifs”: What if he can’t run? What if life never goes back to normal? What if he’s traumatized forever? Her own fears drove her words and choices. Guilt. She couldn’t protect him from “the horrible accident.” That guilt shaped her behavior and her overprotection. Pity. She felt so sorry for him that she thought the best way to show love was constant sympathy. But underneath all of that was the real problem: she saw Jack as broken. She didn’t truly believe he could overcome this. She projected onto him her own fears, her own imagined pain, even the ways she thought she would have reacted. Instead of being confident in her son’s resilience, she treated him as weak, fragile, and permanently damaged. The therapist helped her realize: if Jack was going to thrive, his parents had to stop seeing him as broken. Seeing Others Properly What’s fascinating about Jack’s story is that it encapsulates so many powerful principles. It’s easy to see how his mother was actually creating trauma in him. As soon as Jack was presented with someone who saw him fundamentally differently, the “problem” disappeared. When the therapist came in and said, “You’re incredible—you beat the school bus!”—everything shifted. Jack smiled, he felt challenged in a positive way, and he reframed his entire identity. When he saw himself differently, the doors opened. He was able to heal, move forward, and overcome the accident. Stephen Covey’s Story Let me share another story—this one from Stephen Covey. He tells how he and his wife were struggling with one of their sons. This boy was having a difficult time in school. He didn’t know how to follow instructions on tests, so his grades suffered. Socially, he was very immature, often saying or doing things that embarrassed his family and friends. Athletically, he was small, skinny, and uncoordinated. For example, when he swung a baseball bat, he would often swing before the ball was even pitched—and people would laugh. Covey and his wife were desperate to help. They wanted their son to be successful in every area of his life. At first, they focused on their attitudes and behaviors toward him, trying to be positive and encouraging. Covey recalls: “We attempted to psych him up using positive mental attitude techniques. ‘Come on, son, you can do it! We know you can. Put your hands a little higher on the bat. Keep your eye on the ball. Don’t swing until it gets close.’ If he did a little better, we would go to great lengths to reinforce it: ‘That’s good, son. Keep it up!’ “While others laughed, we reprimanded them: ‘Leave him alone. Get off his back. He’s just learning.’ “But our son would cry and insist that he’d never be any good, that he didn’t like baseball anyway. Nothing we did seemed to help.” Despite their encouragement, Covey and his wife watched their son’s self-esteem plummet. Finally, they pulled back and looked at the situation on a different level. They realized that their attempts to “help” weren’t working because—deep down—they didn’t truly believe in him. Subconsciously, they saw him as fundamentally underdeveloped: academically, socially, physically. Inept. Inadequate. Covey explains: “When we honestly examined our deepest feelings, we realized our perception was that he was basically inadequate—somehow behind. No matter how much we worked on our attitudes and behaviors, our efforts were ineffective because, despite our words and actions, what we were really communicating was: ‘You aren’t capable. You have to be protected.’ “We began to realize that if we wanted to change the situation, we would first have to change ourselves. And to change ourselves effectively, we had to change our perceptions and paradigms.” Paradigms Change Everything I recently did a podcast about paradigms—how they are everything. Go listen to that one in conjunction with this one. I’ve shared before how reading Leadership and Self-Deception was life-changing for me. At the time, I had broken, unhealthy relationships with extended family. I blamed them—for dressing their kids alike and leaving my daughter out, for their supposed moral failings, for whatever narrative I had created in my head. But the real problem wasn’t them—it was me. I saw them as “less than.” I judged them and propped myself up as morally superior. Because I didn’t see them properly, I distorted our entire relationship. Leadership and Self-Deception helped me understand that no matter what my attitudes or outward behaviors were, how I truly felt—how I truly saw them—was impossible to hide. That’s what always got communicated. This is why it’s so important to work on our basic perceptions: to see others as creators. Victimhood and the Drama Cycle This ties back to what we teach in the MDM Academy about drama and victimhood. When we see people wrongly, we usually cast them into roles in the drama cycle. In both Jack’s story and Covey’s story, the children were seen as victims—either of biology, circumstance, or trauma. In my extended family situation, I cast them as persecutors—making me unhappy, leaving me out—when in reality I was jealous and not being honest about it. I’ve even had children tell me, “Mom, you’re always trying to fix me.” Why would they say that? Because I was acting like a rescuer. When we cast people into the drama cycle—victim, persecutor, or rescuer—we distort reality. We stop seeing clearly. The truth is: everyone is a creator. Applying This to Marriage I’ve said openly that my husband struggled with a pornography addiction for many years. Because of that, I’ve spoken with many women in similar situations. And what often happens is this: Some women cast their husbands as persecutors—the “bad guy” who intentionally hurts them and chooses other women over them. Other women cast their husbands as victims—helpless, bound by addiction, unable to choose differently. Neither view is true. Both distort reality. When we cast others in drama roles, we horribilize them, gossip about them, or pity them. And every time we do that, we destroy real connection. The truth is, everyone is a creator. As children of God, it’s in our very DNA. We cannot not create. Even a husband addicted to pornography is still a creator. He is capable and competent of finding answers, and his wife is capable and competent of bearing the struggle, supporting the healing process, and patiently walking through it. My Daily Creator Statement I remind myself of this truth daily. I recorded a “Creator Statement” on my phone, and I listen to it every morning. One line says: “I see myself and others as creators—capable and competent, able to navigate life successfully.” Another line: “I trust that I and others are having the experiences we need to have for our ultimate good.” This framing resets me every day. It puts me right where I need to be: knowing that I am a creator, you are a creator, and that the experiences we’re having are for our growth. We are capable and competent to overcome challenges, to find solutions, and to step fully into the role of creator. Choosing to See Others as Creators Maybe you’re not ready today. Maybe you don’t want to take that step yet. That doesn’t make you incapable, and it doesn’t make you incompetent. If you’re in a relationship where things aren’t going the way you’d like, and you really want things to be different, here’s my challenge to you: Sit down with yourself and ask honestly, Am I casting this person somewhere in the drama cycle? Do I see them as a persecutor, rescuer, or victim? And if so—why? Ask yourself, Do I really believe they can’t do it? Do I see them as incapable? And if you do, ask yourself why. Sometimes there are real limitations—maybe someone is five-foot-six and wants to play in the NBA. Okay, probably not going to happen. But here’s the truth: they are still a creator. They are capable and competent to figure that out for themselves. You can trust that they are having the experiences they need to have for their ultimate good. And yes—that can be unbelievably painful. It can look like they’re hurting themselves, heading toward disaster, or walking a path that clearly won’t work out. But they are still a creator. They can do it. Who am I—and who are you—to limit them? Who are we to decide it can’t be done? Seeing Potential at Their Own Pace Stephen Covey shares more about his son. He says: “Through deep thought, faith, and prayer, we began to see our son in terms of his own uniqueness. We saw within him layers of potential that would be realized—but at his own pace and speed. Instead of trying to set some unrealistic bar or timeline, we decided to slow down, calm down, and let nature take its course.” I’ve got a child who’s disappointed with where they’re at in life right now. They wish they were further ahead. And I keep reassuring them: There’s no race. You’re not in competition with anyone. There’s no rule that says you have to check certain boxes by a certain age. Life doesn’t work that way. You’re capable. You’re competent. You can solve this problem. Covey continues: “We decided to relax and get out of his way and let his own personality emerge. We saw our natural role as being to affirm and value him.” How different is that? Imagine being with your child, and instead of being embarrassed when they do something awkward, you just laugh and think it’s genuinely funny. You don’t let it bother you. Covey goes on: “We also conscientiously worked on our motives and cultivated internal sources of security, so our feelings of worth were not dependent on our children’s acceptable behavior.” I cannot emphasize this enough. This is vital for healthy, happy mothering. Cultivating Internal Security We must have our own internal sources of security. This is why we do the MDM Academy. This is why it’s so vital to your mental, emotional, spiritual, and physical health to meet your own needs. To manage your heart and mind. To discover your gifts. To live by principles. To study worldviews, to practice servant leadership, and to go out into your community helping others come to truth. Why? Because you need your own confidence. For too long, my ego was tied to my children’s choices. Their successes—or failures—made me happy or unhappy. But that wasn’t good for them, and it wasn’t good for me. My arbitrary standards and expectations weren’t serving anyone. So you and I must cultivate our own inner sources of worth, so we’re not dependent on our children’s “acceptable” behavior. And that means working on you. We sometimes tell ourselves, This is my children’s time. I can only focus on them right now. I can only spend money on them. But that’s simply not true. It’s a lie. They need you to live your own mission-driven life so they can see what it looks, feels, sounds, and smells like. They need to watch you do it—so they’ll want it for themselves. The Outcome Covey writes: “As we loosened up our old perception of our son and developed value-based motives, new feelings began to emerge. We found ourselves enjoying him. Instead of comparing or judging him, we stopped trying to clone him in our own image or measure him against social expectations. “Because we saw him as fundamentally adequate and able to cope with life, we stopped protecting him against ridicule. As the weeks and months passed, he began to feel a quiet confidence and affirmed himself. He blossomed at his own pace, and soon he excelled academically, socially, and athletically—far beyond what the so-called natural developmental process would have predicted.” He grew into his full potential because the people around him stopped treating him as a victim and started seeing him as a creator. Final Thoughts So here’s the takeaway: You are a creator. They are creators. If a relationship feels broken or discouraging, ask yourself: How can I see this person more as a creator? How can I affirm to myself and to them that they are capable and competent? Stop thinking of all the reasons they can’t, and start thinking of all the reasons they can. As Earl Nightingale said, “Think of all the reasons you can.” And as you shift your paradigm—even in subtle ways, like your body language—you will communicate something new: I believe in you. I know you can do it. And over time, they will begin to believe it, too. Because when we refuse to live in drama—when we stop casting ourselves and others as victims, persecutors, or rescuers—and instead choose to see everyone as creators, we empower the people around us to blossom into who they were always meant to be. We allow them to grow through the aches and pains of life, to gain strength, and to learn how to manage life successfully. They can do it. You can do it. We can do it—as mothers, as friends, as spouses. We can become the creators we were divinely designed to be. Thank you for joining me today. I hope this was helpful to you. Don’t forget to grab your free audiobook copy of The Mission-Driven Life at themissiondrivenmom.com. And I’ll see you next time.

Grab Your FREE copy of the audiobook The Mission Driven Life: Discover and Fulfill Your Unique Contribution to the World: https://www.themissiondrivenmom.com/. What can we do when our persistent problems just won't go away? When we're stuck and can't figure out what is really going on? When depression, overwhelm, or anxiety seem to be running our lives? When our relationships are stale or taxing?  This podcast holds the answer!  You'll learn about George who was tortured by voices who spoke of his imminent death. You'll hear about Eric and how an English degree from Yale left him unemployed, spiritual bankrupt, and lost. You'll hear about Tracie, who liked her life and didn't want things to change. And you'll hear about Audrey and one of the most challenging times in her life.  And you'll discover the 2 SIMPLE STEPS that each of them took to move beyond their struggles to a better life! ___________ PODCAST TRANSCRIPT (AI GENERATED)  Give It up or Take it on Podcast   Welcome back to the podcast. I’m Audrey Rindlisbacher, author of The Mission-Driven Life and founder of The Mission-Driven Mom. If you haven’t yet visited TheMissionDrivenMom.com to get your free copy of the audiobook The Mission-Driven Life: How to Discover and Fulfill Your Unique Contribution to the World, you should definitely do that! We’ve recorded the entire book for you, and in it you’ll discover the 7 Laws of Life Mission—principles that will revolutionize your life. They’ll help you love God and yourself better, learn to love truth and humanity, and gain the tools to lead yourself, your home, and your community. You’ll learn how to use your greatest gifts and talents to bless those around you, while finding joy and fulfillment in the process. If you’re new to this podcast, we’ve reorganized the episodes so you can start from the beginning, binge-listen, and get all the key elements you need to understand the 7 Laws of Life Mission framework. We have a whole series on the Laws themselves, plus series on other topics like feminism. You’ll also find “Mission-Driven Stories,” where you can see the Laws in action in the lives of great men and women, along with personal development episodes like this one—on self-education, growth, and more.   The Story of George I want to start today by telling you the story of George. He was a middle-aged man, married, with three kids. He worked as a traveling salesman with a large sales territory. Life was pretty normal for George—his marriage was “fine,” his kids did okay in school, and he went about his daily routine without much disruption. Then something strange began to happen. Over the course of a few weeks, George started having disturbing thoughts about his death while driving his sales routes. Thoughts like: “The next time you come this way, you’ll drive over that embankment and be killed.” “Before it’s filled, your car will drive straight into that excavation, and you will die.” The scenarios were always the same—his death, always imminent, always tied to the road he was traveling. These thoughts became more frequent and began to plague him. As they grew stronger, George started losing sleep. He would pace the floor at night, wake up repeatedly, and find himself worrying. One night, he thought he’d found a way to stop it. That evening, the voice had told him, “The next time you cross that bridge, you will die.” He decided that if he drove back to that bridge right then, crossed it, and didn’t die, he could “prove the voice wrong” and be free from the thoughts. Even though it was over an hour away and the middle of the night, George got in his car, drove to the bridge, crossed it two or three times, and of course, didn’t die. Relieved, he went home, certain he had “kicked it.” But a few days later, the voice returned. This time, it gave him a new death prediction, and again he felt compelled to drive to the location and prove it false. Soon, this became a pattern—whenever the thoughts came, he couldn’t sleep until he drove to the spot and disproved them. Over time, the toll was obvious: less sleep, more anxiety, declining work performance, and a haggard appearance. Eventually, George told his wife what was happening. She was shocked—she had no idea. But she happened to know Dr. M. Scott Peck, a psychiatrist, and told George, “You need help. I’m calling this doctor.”   Therapy with Dr. Peck At first, in his sessions with Dr. Peck, George insisted he didn’t know where the thoughts were coming from: “Everything’s fine in my life. There’s no problem.” But as time went on, he began sharing more—about his abusive childhood, his broken marriage, and his estrangement from two of his three children. He was only close to his youngest, a 10-year-old. It became clear to Dr. Peck that George was struggling with obsessive-compulsive disorder. The compulsions were running his life. Dr. Peck wanted to help him understand why this was happening, but George resisted. He wouldn’t fully cooperate or admit the seriousness of the problem. Then, after several months of therapy, George walked into a session elated. “I’ve solved it! My problems are over. I don’t even know if I need therapy anymore.” Dr. Peck was skeptical. How could such a long-standing problem vanish in less than a week? Eventually, George admitted his “solution”: “I made a pact with the devil.” George quickly clarified that he didn’t actually believe in the devil: “I don’t think the devil is real. But you wouldn’t command me to stop, and I couldn’t control it myself. I had to get someone in control of the problem—so I decided to make this pact.” He told Dr. Peck he felt “a little bit guilty” about it, but since it was helping him feel better, he didn’t see what the big deal was—especially since, in his mind, the devil wasn’t even real. Dr. Peck asked, “What does that mean? Why are you feeling guilty?” Finally, George admitted, “I guess there’s a little bit more I haven’t told you. There’s another reason I have the ‘guilties’—at least a little bit. You see, there was another part to my agreement with the devil. Because I don’t really believe in the devil, I couldn’t be certain he would actually kill me if I went back. For it to work, I needed some insurance—something that would really keep me from going back. “What could that be? I wondered. Then it occurred to me that the one thing I love most in the world is my son, Christopher. So I made it part of the agreement that if I gave in to the compulsion and went back, the devil would see to it that Christopher died an early death. Not only would I die, but Christopher would too. Now you know why I can’t go back anymore. Even if the devil’s not real, I’m not willing to risk Christopher’s life on this issue. I love him so much.” Dr. Peck replied slowly, “So you threw Christopher’s life into the bargain as well?” “Yes,” George said numbly. “It doesn’t sound good, does it? That’s the part that really gives me the guilties.” As you can imagine, Dr. Peck sat for several minutes in silence, trying to process what George had just told him. He didn’t want to be judgmental, but this was a serious problem. Sitting across from George, he tried to decide how he felt about what George had done, what the truth of the matter was, and what they should do about it. Finally, Dr. Peck said he was glad George felt guilty—it meant he still had a conscience and knew what he had done was wrong. “That’s why you feel guilty,” he explained. Then he added, “George, you’re a kind of coward. Whenever the going gets a little rough, you sell out. When you’re faced with the reality that you’re going to die one of these days, you run away from it. You don’t think about it because it’s morbid. When you realize your marriage is lousy, you run away from that too—instead of facing it and doing something about it. “Because you run away from these things that are inescapable, they come back to haunt you in the form of symptoms, obsessions, and compulsions. These symptoms could be your salvation if you said to yourself, These mean I’m haunted. I’d better find out what these ghosts are and clear them out of my house. But you don’t. Facing them would mean confronting painful realities. So you try to run away from your symptoms too, instead of facing what they mean. “And when they’re not easy to get rid of, you turn to anything that will give you relief—no matter how wicked, evil, or destructive. You’re always looking for the easy way out, George—not the right way, the easy way. When faced with a choice between the right way and the easy way, you’ll take the easy way every time—the painless way. In fact, you’ll do anything to find that easy way out, even if it means selling your soul and sacrificing your son. “If you’re willing to face the painful realities of your life—your tearful childhood, your miserable marriage, your mortality, your own cowardice—I can help you, and I’m sure we’ll succeed. But if all you want is the easiest possible relief from pain, then I expect you are the devil’s man.” This struck George deeply. He knew Dr. Peck was right, but it was hard to face. He had spent his life running. One of the things I talk about in my new book, How Truth Makes Us Free, and that we emphasize in the Academy, is that problems can be solved—and solved permanently. God has given us truth and principles to guide us toward permanent solutions. But the first step is to be honest about the existence of the problem and to be courageous enough to face it. The women who join our Academy are some of the most courageous women in the world because they’re willing to say, “My life isn’t what I want it to be. I believe it could be better. I believe that with the right mentoring, community, and resources, I could become more than I am. I could overcome persistent problems, discover my greatest strengths, and become a real resource in my home and community for those seeking to better themselves.” It takes courage to make that declaration. These women sacrifice—time, money, energy, mental effort, spiritual effort, emotional effort, and social effort—to sign up and do the work. And it works every time. When the women do the work, they see the results. Over the years we spend with them, they find those outcomes—because anything worth doing takes time. For transformation to be permanent, for it to become subconscious, for it to change the very lens through which you see the world, it takes time, repetition, and effort. That’s what George was facing in this moment. He was so desperate to get out of pain, and so much in his life truly was painful. It wasn’t all his fault—he had endured a terrible childhood, unloving parents, a loveless marriage, and had checked out of most of his relationships. But the only way forward was through the problem—admitting it, telling himself the truth, looking at all the factors, and choosing to be different. Luckily, this story has a happy ending. George later said, “For the past ten days, I’ve felt better than I have in many months. I’ve had a few thoughts, but they haven’t really bothered me. If I were to reverse the process, it would mean going back to where I was two weeks ago—in agony.” “I expect that’s right,” Dr. Peck replied. “What you’re asking me to do,” George said, “is to voluntarily return to a state of torment.” “It’s what I’m suggesting you need to do, George—not for me, but for yourself,” Dr. Peck told him. “If it would help you for me to ask you directly, then I will.” “To actually choose a state of pain…” George mused. “I don’t know. I’m not sure I can do it. I’m not sure I want to do it.” Dr. Peck stood. “Are you going to see me Monday, George?” “Yes, I’ll be here.” George stood too. Dr. Peck went over, shook his hand, and said, “Until Monday, then. Goodnight.” That evening was the turning point in George’s therapy. By Monday, his symptoms had returned in full force, but something had changed. He no longer pleaded with Dr. Peck to tell him not to go back. He was slightly more willing to examine, in depth, his fear of death and the enormous gulf of understanding and communication between himself and his wife. As time went on, this willingness grew. Eventually, with Dr. Peck’s help, George was able to ask his wife to enter therapy herself.   This story is really amazing, and it perfectly introduces something I want to share with you today about what’s required if we truly want to engage in personal growth. I think you’re here listening because you’re like me—because you’re like the women in our Academy, and like other listeners of this podcast, and those who read The Mission-Driven Life. You’re someone who wants more. You’re someone who wants to overcome, who wants to really believe that there are answers—someone willing to do what’s necessary, but needing to know deep down that the answers really do exist. And I promise you, they do. Scott Peck goes on to teach a concept that, the first time I read it, completely blew my mind. He talks about how we become evil and how we become good. For George, this was a matter of life—certainly his moral life, but probably his physical life as well. His choice in that moment would make all the difference moving forward. He had to decide: would he side with good or with evil? Now, there are plenty of people who would make fun of this—“Oh, he made a pact with the devil,” they’d say. “He didn’t really believe in the devil,” and so on. But that’s not the issue here. The issue isn’t whether or not he believed in the devil, or even whether the devil exists. The real issue is this: he was knowingly about to do something he knew was wrong in order to escape legitimate suffering. He wanted to avoid the pain of things that had been done to him and the poor choices he himself had made. But that suffering was part of the process he needed to face if he wanted to move forward into real growth and healing. He had to decide whether to ignore his conscience or listen to it—whether to side with the good or the evil part of his heart. In The Gulag Archipelago, Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn describes this perfectly. He says that right down the middle of every human heart runs a line dividing good from evil, and we each have to decide which side we’ll land on—and how far toward the good we’re willing to go. Willingness is the key here. It’s the willingness to listen when we know what we should do—or what we should not do. Scott Peck ends this section with a profound thought. He points out that most people we think of as evil—think about Hitler—are actually very strong-willed. And so, we might assume that it’s their strong will that makes them so evil, allowing them to harm so many people. But Peck challenges that idea. He says: “It’s tempting to think that the problem of evil lies in the will itself. Perhaps the evil are born so inherently strong-willed that it’s impossible for them ever to submit their will. Yet I think it’s characteristic of all great people—whether their greatness be for good or for evil—that they are extremely strong-willed.” You can read The Mission-Driven Life or listen to the audiobook and hear the mission-driven stories I share—stories of many great men and women—and you’ll notice that they were all very strong-willed. They moved toward what was good, right, true, and virtuous with great force and intention. Peck goes on: “The strong will, the power and authority of Jesus, radiates from the Gospels just as Hitler’s did from Mein Kampf.” If you don’t know, Mein Kampf is the book Hitler wrote in prison, outlining his intentions before he was released and rose to power. The Gospels reveal the will of Jesus; Mein Kampf reveals the will of Hitler. So what’s the distinctive difference? Jesus’ will was aligned with His Father’s. Hitler’s will was aligned only with himself. The crucial distinction is between willingness and willfulness. And that’s where our choice lies. We get to decide, every day, which side of that line in our heart we will land on—through both our small and big choices. That’s why I want to talk to you about how to ensure you’re engaging in your own personal growth. When we understand what it means to be willing—through the example of George’s story—we see the truth Scott Peck pointed out: George was willing, even in small ways, to examine his pain. Over time, those small acts of willingness grew. He became willing to face bigger and harder things until eventually, he found peace again and was able to move forward. Because when we are willful—when we resist giving up what we know we should give up, or resist taking on what we know we should take on—we stop our own growth. We cannot move forward unless, as the title of this podcast suggests, we give something up or take something on. For George, he had to give up his illusions about a perfect life. He had to give up avoiding pain. He had to stop running away from everything and finally stand still, face the truth, and deal with it. I want to tell you another story—this one about Eric Metaxas. I may have mentioned it before in years past, but it’s such a beautiful story. It demonstrates so clearly the importance of giving something up in the process of our spiritual growth, if we’re truly willing. When we hand over our hearts and minds to what we know is good, true, and beautiful, we will also be willing to release the things that are holding us back. Eric Metaxas had something he needed to give up as well. He’s written many incredible books—he’s a #1 New York Times bestselling author. I think he’s marvelous. I’ve met him, and I truly admire him. One of his books, Amazing Grace, was life-changing for me during the last leg of the journey in the MDM Academy. Once you finish your mission project and graduate from the Academy, you’re invited to join our Clapham Leadership Team—named after the Clapham Sect, which I learned about through Amazing Grace. So, that’s a pretty special connection for me. Eric’s conversion story is a perfect example of this principle: that if we want to grow, there’s either something we must give up or something we must take on. In his case, it was something to give up. His mother immigrated from East Germany, having grown up during the Communist reign in World War II. She eventually came to the United States, where she met Eric’s father, who had immigrated from Greece. They met in an English-speaking class, hit it off, fell in love, and got married. And, as Eric likes to say, “If you’re raised by a German and a Greek, how do you think you’re raised?” Greek. Eric grew up attending the Greek Orthodox Church and Greek schools, but he always felt like he wasn’t “Greek enough.” Everyone else seemed fully Greek, and he didn’t quite fit in. He felt a little odd. Still, he was naturally bright and had good parents who ensured he had a good life and childhood. When the time came, Eric was accepted to Yale. Up to that point, he had never developed a strong foundation in any faith—least of all Christianity. Yale, a thoroughly secular school then and even more so now, made it obvious from the moment you arrived on campus: it wasn’t “cool” to believe in God or to be a person of faith. That wasn’t how you fit in. And because Eric had always felt like an outsider, he wanted desperately to fit in at Yale. So, he became an agnostic—and, in his own words, very lost. Over time, he became more worldly. After graduating, he struggled to find a job—he’d been an English major—and eventually moved back home. That felt awkward and humiliating, and he saw himself as even more of a failure. His parents, who had sacrificed to send him to Yale, were bewildered. “What is going on?” they asked. During this low point, Eric landed a job as an editor for a company where a devout Christian coworker kept sharing his faith. For months, Eric avoided the conversations—ignoring or shutting the man down. But slowly, his heart softened. He began to listen, just a little. Privately, he sometimes prayed, “God, why aren’t you there?” He wasn’t sure how he felt about anything. One day, that coworker handed Eric a slip of paper with Jeremiah 29:11 written on it: “For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the Lord, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.” For a young man who felt trapped, who feared God might harm him if he believed, and who was utterly lost, this verse made a deep impression. As time went on, his heart softened more. Then, one night, he had a dream. The symbolism in the dream was rich—connected to his childhood, his interests, his Greek heritage, and many other layers. When he awoke, he knew without question that Christ was the Savior. “I went to bed single,” he later said, “and I woke up married.” At work that day, his coworker immediately noticed the difference. “What’s changed?” he asked. “I have accepted Christ,” Eric replied—something he admitted he would have been embarrassed to say even the day before. In his interview with Jordan Peterson, Eric explained, “I was a different person. From that day forward, my life changed dramatically. The first—slightly embarrassing—manifestation of that change was that I immediately stopped sleeping with my girlfriend of three years. I just knew I can’t do that. That’s for marriage.” In that moment, he recognized that God was real, Christ was the Savior, and that following Him meant living differently—even giving something up that had been a central part of his life. He chose to obey. Happily, he chose the path of integrity. Today, Eric Metaxas is a man of profound influence and impact, living out principles that align closely with the Seven Laws of Life Mission. When Eric told Jordan Peterson about ending the relationship, Peterson said, “So, that’s a sacrifice.” Eric responded: “Yes and no. People often say God always outgives you. Whatever you give up for Him is nothing compared to what He gives you. I had such a sense of His presence in those first days of my conversion that I thought, I wouldn’t give that up for anything. I wouldn’t do anything to hinder that personal relationship with the God who loves me, died for me, and created the universe. It was so beautiful and extraordinary that I wouldn’t do anything to screw it up. That’s more valuable than anything in the world.” I’ve personally experienced something similar. Over the years, I’ve had to give up many things: complaining, gossip, unhealthy eating, negative self-talk, rescuing people, small thinking, judgmental attitudes, and sarcasm—something deeply ingrained from my upbringing that took real effort to remove. If you feel stuck—unsure why you’re not growing, why you can’t solve persistent problems, or why life isn’t improving—start by asking: What do I need to give up? Bring it before God. He loves you and wants you to get unstuck. Ask Him what needs to change. But personal growth isn’t always about giving something up. Sometimes, it’s about taking something on—an area of growth we don’t talk about enough. In Scripture, the rich young man approached Jesus, saying in essence: “Good Master, what good thing shall I do to have eternal life?” He had already been living obediently, giving up much to follow the commandments. Yet Jesus replied, “You lack one thing: sell all you have, give to the poor, and follow Me.” For him, it meant both giving something up and taking something on—the role and responsibility of a true disciple. But he walked away sad, unable to make the sacrifice. This principle applies to us too. My friend and colleague Tracy Hyde is a perfect example. She’ll soon be rejoining the Mission-Driven Mom Academy, and I couldn’t be happier. When we approached her about coming back, she was honest: her youngest child was about to leave home, she had plenty of free time, and she was comfortable. Taking on new responsibilities—showing up to meetings, meeting deadlines, being accountable to a team—was not what she wanted.   You know, she doesn’t need the money. She’s very comfortable. Her husband is very successful, and they have a very comfortable lifestyle. She doesn’t have to do it. Here’s what she did: She asked God to soften her heart if this was something He wanted her to do. And in that regard, she’s a truly mission-driven mom. She’s invested in doing the missions God is calling her to. And often, those missions mean taking something on in a very real sense. All the way through the academy, we’re giving things up—wrong paradigms about ourselves, bad habits we’ve been carrying—and we’re taking things on. We’re learning, growing, studying, practicing principles. We’re learning to discuss valuable insights and concepts with our families. Eventually, we take on more of a leadership role in our homes and in our communities. So, for Tracy, this was a place she felt called to again—but she only knew that because she was softhearted, because she listened, because she asked God, “Is this where You want me?” And He said, “Yes.” But she could only hear that answer because she was willing to take something on. I’m confident that in a few years from now, if we ask her whether she has experienced a lot of personal growth from taking on the role of helping in the academy again—overseeing it and mentoring our moms—she will say, “Yes.” That’s what it requires. One of the reasons I wanted to talk about this today is because I had a really interesting conversation with someone else in my life recently—someone I truly love and respect. They asked me: “What do you do if you feel God is asking you to do something, but you really don’t want to? You’re scared of it, you’re certain you can’t do it, and you’re convinced it’s going to turn out badly because it’s not something that comes naturally to you—or something you could ever see yourself doing—and you don’t even want to do it?” The first question I asked this person was, “Are you certain God wants you to?” They said, “Yes. It’s been nagging me for years, and now it’s become very clear that this is something I need to seriously consider doing.” So I said, “Then I would ask the next question: Why am I afraid to do it? Why am I convinced it’s going to turn out badly? Why would God ask me to do something that would be awful for me and for everyone I love?” She was being asked to take something on—and it was scary and hard and overwhelming. But sometimes growth requires taking something on. That’s the only way we can learn the next things we have to learn. I don’t know if I’ve told this story before, but in the past, one of the things I was asked to take on was being a foster mother. It was excruciatingly difficult. I won’t go into all the details here, but there was an emergency need in my extended family, and I was the only one available. I had four children of my own. Overnight, I suddenly had three more—and then I brought a newborn home from the hospital. I went from four children to eight children: two under two, a newborn, and two eight-year-olds. They were all young. Of course, they got the chickenpox and all kinds of other things went wrong. I had to get foster care certified in the middle of it. But I knew it was the right thing to do. I knew it was what I was being asked to do. Still, it was one of the hardest things I have ever done. It was painful and overwhelming every single day. I was stretched to my absolute limit and beyond. It asked things of me that I was certain I could not do. And yet, in that process, I learned things about myself—some good and some not so good—that I never could have learned any other way. It stretched me to my capacity. It required me to pray in ways I had never prayed before and to plead for guidance in ways I never had before. When you have your own children, they’re yours—they’re not going anywhere. You love them and you’re on the journey with them for life and beyond. But with foster children, who you might not keep, in a very real way, their lives are in your hands. I knew two things because my cousin had been in the foster care system years ago and had been abused. I knew that if I handed these kids back to the system, they would probably be abused. And I knew that everyone—including the people in the foster system—guaranteed me that the children would not remain together. This called upon parts of me I didn’t even know existed. It enabled me to come to know God in ways I never had before—to lean on Him in ways I never had before—and to trust Him more implicitly than ever. This experience became one of the most spiritually profound of my life. He changed me profoundly—literally in a day. I was a different person. And that change was permanent. The people around me were shocked and amazed at what happened to me because of that experience. But I had to be willing to take on something I didn’t want to do. Now, a couple of these stories I’ve shared were things that, at first, I didn’t see as opportunities—but they turned out to be some of the most beautiful experiences of my life. The end of the foster care story is that everything turned out beautifully for those children. I was not to keep them; they were not mine. God helped me see that, and He healed me completely so that I had perfect faith about their future. My mom took care of them for a time, and then—miraculously—a family who had just become foster care certified received the call about them. They knew instantly these were their children. They took all four and adopted them. It was a miracle. I watched God work in a way I never could have experienced without being willing to take something on. Some of you may know there’s something you need to take on. And maybe you feel like you’re silently dying inside as I encourage you—just like the rich young man didn’t want to give up his riches because his identity was wrapped up in them. I didn’t want to give up the safe, secure, comfortable home I had for these children I barely knew, along with all the challenges they brought with them. But sometimes taking things on is scary and hard for different reasons. There have been plenty of things—running a business, doing a podcast, getting on stages, writing books—that were terrifying for me. I spent years rationalizing not doing them. I recently read a book by Ben Hardy where he talked about how it took him five years to convince himself to write regularly and build up a blog.   These things are hard. It’s hard to give things up. It’s hard to take things on. But the alternative is stagnation, sameness, and the frustration of feeling like life isn’t what we want it to be—and not knowing how to get there. I’m here to tell you today that a big part of getting there probably involves giving something up or taking something on. If, as you’ve been listening, you’ve felt little inklings about something you might need to release—or something new you might need to embrace—it’s likely because that’s your next step for personal growth. So don’t resist it. Don’t be willful. Don’t push away the things that are calling you. You are being called to be more. There is so much more in you. I can’t tell you how many women I’ve watched blossom in the Academy—women who were timid, introverted, scared, and overwhelmed—blossoming into beautiful, confident, self-assured women. They know who they are. They’re willing to bring their gifts and talents forward in situations where they never would have had the courage or confidence before. They may not be on TV or the radio. You may never meet them or know their names. But they’re making a real difference in the world—living truth, teaching truth, and leaning into their greatest strengths. And it all happened because they were willing to give things up and take things on. That is the way forward. That’s my way forward. It’s a proven path. What’s miraculous—and I’ve talked about this a lot lately—is that you always know the next thing. God is so merciful; He will show you the next step. If that next step is working with us in the Academy, I welcome you. I’m excited to meet you and get to know you. If it’s going back to school, telling your spouse you’re sorry, stopping the habit of complaining—whatever it is—please step into it. And here’s the truth: if God is calling you to give something up or take something on, it will be for your ultimate good. You will look back and bless that decision. Eventually, you will see that you could not have grown in that way without the opportunity He presented to you. So take advantage of it. Lean into it. And you will find yourself beginning to grow and transform in beautiful ways. Make sure to grab your free audio copy of The Mission-Driven Life: How to Discover and Fulfill Your Unique Contribution to the World. And I’ll see you here next time.  

 Get Your FREE Audiobook of The Mission Driven Life: Discover and Fulfill Your Unique Contribution to the World: https://www.themissiondrivenmom.com/ There's so much drama in the world and it is no fun! We all want to have peace and unity but sometimes we cannot figure out why they elude us.  In this episode, Audrey walks you through what drama is, why it happens, how we choose in, and how you can get out- permanently!  With resources for owning your life and moving forward with greater confidence and clarity, this podcast is for anyone who feels stuck, frustrated or unmotivated! Here's the David Emerald interview to listen to: https://www.themissiondrivenmom.com/podcasts/the-mission-driven-mom-podcast/episodes/2148868481 _______________ Podcast Transcript (AI generated):  Welcome back to the podcast! I'm Audrey Rindlisbacher, the author of The Mission-Driven Life and the founder of The Mission-Driven Mom. On this podcast, you can expect to hear all things related to mission-driven living. When I was a stuck mom with several small children, and my finances, health, and marriage were all out of control—along with other issues—we were struggling with addiction and other major problems. I went on a search to find answers. When therapy, online courses, and other sources didn’t work, I wanted to discover how to live more intentionally. That’s when I found the Seven Laws of Life Mission—laws that have been lived by the greatest men and women throughout history. I studied the lives of dozens and dozens of them. These seven laws are outlined in my book, The Mission-Driven Life. You can grab a free copy of the audiobook at themissiondrivenmom.com. I highly recommend you go get that, and stay tuned for upcoming episodes where we’ll continue to explore all things mission-driven living—how to become a Mission-Driven Mom and how we can engage in that process today. If you’re new to the podcast, I recommend going back to the beginning. We’ve reordered the episodes for you, so you can binge-listen and follow the whole process. We have in-depth episodes on each of the seven laws and the principles that undergird them. We also share many, many stories of mission-driven individuals. We highlight these regularly so you can see the laws in action in the lives of great men and women. In The Mission-Driven Life, I talk about the Ten Boom family—my lifelong heroes. I idolized them for years until I realized that they were just like me when they were young. Through these Seven Laws of Life Mission, they became the incredible people who saved over 800 Jews during World War II. So again, grab the audiobook for free at themissiondrivenmom.com. You can also purchase a hard copy of the book for just $17. While you're there, you can learn more about everything we do at The Mission-Driven Mom—including our online academy for women. Thank you so much for being here today. If this podcast has blessed your life in any way, we’d love for you to leave a review. This helps others know they can find quality content here, and it encourages them to tune in and learn how to live mission-driven lives alongside us. Today’s Topic: A Life-Changing Concept Today, we’re going to talk about a concept that has been one of the most revolutionary in my own life. It's also one of our moms’ favorite things to learn in the academy. This concept has the power to radically transform your paradigms. We’ve talked recently about paradigm shifts—how they are the shortcut to living a more mission-driven life. We want to actively engage in learning, prayer, thoughtfulness, and discussion so those paradigm shifts happen more often. Well, today’s concept is definitely a paradigm shift. It comes from a man named Stephen Karpman. While working on his doctoral degree, he developed what we now call the Drama Triangle (also known as the Drama Cycle). He was encouraged by his professors to write a paper on it, and though I don’t believe he ever wrote a full book, the concept took off—and now it's everywhere. Hopefully, if you’ve engaged in any kind of relationship training, therapy, or coaching, you’ve heard about the Drama Triangle. There’s also an opposite model—an antidote to the drama—that we teach in depth in the academy. Today, I’ll give you a tool to begin using that antidote once we talk through how the Drama Triangle works. A Personal Example A few years ago, I was in an ongoing argument with one of my teenage daughters. She was making certain decisions I didn’t agree with, and I kept pushing her to change. I was nagging a lot, and it began to erode our relationship. Then one day, she said something really painful—but also incredibly helpful. She was very upset and said: “I just feel like you just want to fix me.” That sentence struck a deep chord. It hit me hard because I knew exactly what she meant, thanks to what I had learned about the Drama Triangle. It helped me realize how I had been showing up in our relationship, and it caused me to back off and reevaluate how I was handling the situation. This is the power of a paradigm shift—it helps you behave differently in the world. What Is the Drama Triangle? Stephen Karpman taught that "drama" is a specific kind of relationship pattern. We see it everywhere—in popular movies, books, music. A lot of the conflict in those stories stems from drama. We can feel it. We say things like, “Why are they being so dramatic?” or “This feels out of control.” Some of the symptoms or “fruits” of the Drama Triangle include: Negative emotions Doubt, guilt, confusion Regret, anger, overwhelm Resentment and contention Disobedience or disorder People walking over each other Lack of connection and empathy Hard feelings These are not the fruits we want in our relationships. We want peace, unity, contentment, empathy, and love. But those things cannot flourish when we are caught in drama. Here’s the most empowering part: You are in the driver’s seat. Just like we discussed in the “One Shift Away” episode, when you’re unaware, you don’t know how to change. But when you learn and take ownership of your thinking and your behaviors, you can change—and that is incredibly empowering. The Three Roles in the Drama Triangle There are three “players” in this game of drama. Often, we default to these roles based on childhood experiences. These patterns worked for us as kids—or were vital for survival—but we never outgrew them. We haven’t recognized what we’re doing, so we keep replaying the same dynamics. Let’s break it down. 1. The Persecutor The catalyst for drama is often a Persecutor—the "bad guy." But here’s the kicker: the persecutor doesn’t have to be a person. It could be: An event A bad choice Childhood trauma Illness (mental or physical) An accident or tragedy Life circumstances You can even be your own persecutor. Many of us—especially women—beat ourselves up constantly. A little self-reflection can be helpful, but most of the time, it’s damaging. What we really need is truth (another invaluable tool we dive into in the academy). The persecutor is something we’re resisting. It’s the thing we think is making us unhappy. When we feel overwhelmed, stuck, or like we can’t function, that’s often our internal signal that we’re caught in drama—and that the persecutor role is active. The persecutor says things like: “It’s all your fault.” “See what you made me do?” “You’re so stupid/weak/etc.” This role is all about blame—blaming others or ourselves. Persecutors criticize, guilt-trip, shame, set unrealistic rules, and focus entirely on the problem, not the solution. And here’s the truth: everyone in the Drama Triangle is focused on the problem. That’s why they’re stuck there. I’ll go deeper into the other two roles—the Rescuer and the Victim—in the next section of this episode. Now we have the “good guy” in the drama triangle: the Rescuer. This is the role I most often fall into. And I’ve seen so many mothers and women who also default to the Rescuer role. We’re going to talk in just a minute about why that is—there’s a good reason. Part of it comes from our female temperament. It also comes from being nurturers. But there’s another, deeper reason as well. Let’s start with the kinds of things rescuers say. I’ve said them so many times myself: “I’m only trying to help.” “I don’t know why you’re so upset. I’m just telling you something good.” “I’m just giving you this great advice.” “I’m solving this problem for you.” “Look how hard I’ve tried!” Sound familiar? The Rescuer often thinks, “I’ve made all these sacrifices, done all this work, and poured out so much for you.” Here’s the real problem: rescuers feel obligated to rescue—even when they don’t want to. They see a problem in someone else's life (often before the person has even identified it themselves), and jump in with, “Did you know you have a problem? Let me give you the solution!” It’s ridiculous, honestly. But it’s so easy to fall into that trap. And when we do, we often end up subverting natural law—the Law of the Harvest. We try to prevent someone from experiencing the natural consequences of their actions. We’re “smoothing the road,” trying to make things easier for them. But what we’re really doing is cutting them off from vital growth experiences. We’re preventing them from seeing truth in action. And when they miss those lessons, they can’t grow. They can’t mature. They don’t learn to make better decisions. That’s the damage a Rescuer does. The Consequences of Rescuing When we identify other people’s problems and jump in to fix them before they even want help—or worse, fix it for them—we are blocking their personal development. They may be adults, but we’re still parenting them like children. And in doing so, we’re halting their emotional and spiritual growth. Rescuers also tend to do things for others that those people didn’t ask for—things they should be doing for themselves. This is a huge issue for moms. We start out doing everything for our children, as we should when they’re infants and toddlers. But the key is to practice wisdom at every stage of their growth. We must allow our children to take on the maximum amount of personal responsibility they can handle at each age. That’s how they mature. That’s how they become independent. When we over-rescue, we stunt their growth. We have a generation of adult children still living at home year after year, not pursuing independence—because their parents are keeping them young, doing for them what they should be doing for themselves. Rescuers Feel Guilty When They're Not Helping This is another huge piece. Many rescuers feel intense guilt when they’re not helping someone. They feel aimless if they don’t have someone to “fix.” They don’t have a project of their own. I had a wonderful friend—an amazing mom and a woman striving to be a good wife. But she was so wrapped up in everyone else’s lives that she wasn’t working on herself. I used to say to her constantly, “Work on what’s yours. Work on what’s yours.” She would fall into Rescuer mode simply because she didn’t have anything else to focus on. This is a modern-day epidemic. With all the technology and convenience we enjoy in the West, women have more leisure time than ever before in human history. And if we use that extra time to hover over our families—trying to solve their problems—we rob ourselves and them of the opportunity to grow. This is why the Mission-Driven Mom model is so vital. It gives us what’s ours. It helps us identify our gifts and talents, develop them, and use them to bless our families and communities. When you know your mission, you have purpose. You have meaningful work. You don’t need to micromanage everyone else’s lives. You can support your family every step of the way without making them miserable—or yourself miserable—through chronic rescuing. The Rescuer’s Harmful Message Here’s another consequence of rescuing that often goes unnoticed: You reinforce someone’s identity as a victim. This is what I was doing with my daughter. That’s why she said, “I feel like you’re trying to fix me.” In one of the books I read during my deep dive into the drama triangle, the author made something very clear: when you're in Rescuer mode, people around you can feel it. They know you’re trying to avoid pain—both your own and theirs. But in doing so, you're stopping them from learning life’s lessons the proper way. My daughter was saying, “Your way of being is communicating something to me. It’s telling me that you think I’m broken.” That’s why I was trying to fix her. That’s why I was trying to make her decisions for her. That’s why I was stepping in over and over. Because at a subconscious level, I believed she needed rescuing. And here’s the tricky part: if you had asked me, I would have said, “I don’t think you’re broken.” I might’ve told her, “You’re just being dramatic,” or “That’s not what I’m doing,” or “Your thoughts are your problem.” But my behavior was saying something entirely different. My actions were communicating: You’re broken. You’re incapable. You need me to fix this for you. Getting Out of the Rescuer Trap It’s a hard balance. I get it. This is why having community is so vital—why the MDM Academy is such a powerful tool. We have mentors, peers, and fellow mission-driven moms who help us reflect and get perspective. We recently did a deep dive into the drama triangle and the Creator alternative. One woman shared how she’s been actively using these tools to pull herself out of drama when it creeps in. Another woman said she had been doing well but had some recent family drama arise, and this refresher was exactly what she needed. Together, we’re having ongoing conversations in the community, meeting regularly, and supporting one another as we strive to move from Victim to Creator. It’s incredible, liberating stuff. It will heal your relationships. It will help you love yourself and others in a whole new way. The Third Role: The Victim Of course, the third role in the drama triangle is—yep, you guessed it—the Victim. The Victim is the one who’s hurting. The one who doesn’t like what’s happening to them. Victims say things like: “Poor me.” “Ain’t it awful?” Now, some people act like victims but claim they’re not in self-pity. And maybe, in rare cases, that’s true. But most of the time, when we’re in Victim mode, we are in self-pity. We feel: Oppressed Helpless Hopeless Powerless We feel like we don’t have answers. Like we don’t know how to fix our situation. And sometimes, that’s actually true—we may not yet know how to make things better. But we can learn. We can grow. We can shift into a Creator orientation. That’s the key. Instead of thinking and acting like a victim, we begin thinking and acting like a Creator. And when we do that, everything changes. Victims often look for a Rescuer to validate their victimhood and reinforce their negative self-beliefs. That’s the toxic dance that keeps the drama triangle spinning. Now, I'm going to be completely transparent here. Even though I taught this in the Academy, I still fell prey to it. I'm much better at it now, but I still fall into it sometimes. In fact, internally, inside the business, I still held some false paradigms—some false beliefs about myself—that were causing me to act or think like a victim in certain ways and to look for rescuers. And when you look for rescuers, they usually show up. But then you interact in ways that are unhealthy, and it's damaging to everyone around you. Even though we were clear about this concept, you still have to learn it. You have to practice it. You have to get better at it. Luckily, I knew the structure, and I was able to catch it. I was able to understand it, to process it, to see it clearly—and then to step into my creatorhood and show up differently again, both for myself and for the people around me—as a creator instead of a victim. Here’s the crux of it all. Here's the fundamental issue at the heart of the drama triangle: the victim gets to avoid taking responsibility. That’s really what the whole game is about. If you're a victim, you didn’t do anything wrong. You're not to blame. It's not your fault that your husband is x or your children are y, or that your house is a mess, or that your parents failed you, or that you got fired, or whatever current life circumstance is oppressing you or making you feel victimized. If you can prove to yourself—and to others—that you're truly a victim, then you can get your needs met without having to meet them yourself. You can garner empathy, attention, help (maybe financial or otherwise). People will listen to you, care about you, and do things for you that they wouldn’t otherwise do—because you’re a victim. It pulls at their heartstrings. They want to be there for you. And being in the victim role also causes people to expect less from you. It enables you to avoid effort. Most importantly, it gets you out of meeting your own needs. Almost always, when we are trapped in drama—especially over a long period of time—and we’re struggling to get out, it’s fundamentally because we are not aware of our real needs and we’re not meeting them. I talk about this principle in The Mission-Driven Life book. If you don’t have the audiobook yet, go grab it and listen to it—it’ll help you see this clearly. Of course, in the Academy, we do a deep dive on all things needs-related and help you walk through the process to do that well. But you can begin practicing the principle right now just by getting the book and learning what it means to meet your real needs. Because when needs aren’t being met, people feel depleted. And when we feel depleted, we start feeling negative and down. Then we look around for a persecutor. If I don’t feel the way I want to feel, and I can identify a persecutor, then I can justify why I feel so bad. It makes me feel better to say, “Oh, I feel this way because of that person or that situation.” But here’s the thing: no one and nothing has to control us. This is the great lesson from Man’s Search for Meaning, which sold millions and millions of copies. Almost any great or influential person you've come across has probably read that book—and they can talk to you about Viktor Frankl. Because he, Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, and others like them proved—pretty much definitively—that you can live in a concentration camp and still be free. They showed that you can have every human freedom taken away, but you still have the choice of your attitude. You always have choice. You can always choose your response. You can take responsibility for how you show up in the world—regardless of how awful your circumstances are. That’s the great lesson of Man’s Search for Meaning. It’s also a key element in all of this: recognizing that we’re acting like victims and creating drama, which makes us and the people around us unhappy, because we are avoiding some sort of responsibility. I’ll never forget the first time I read The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People. The first habit is: Be Proactive. And when I really understood that habit—which is a key principle of human development and growth—I remember saying to my husband, “This is huge.” It really was a massive paradigm shift for me. Most of us—so much of the time—are just struggling to live that first habit: to really take complete ownership of ourselves and say, “I am where I am because of the choices I made. And I can change my circumstances because I can change me.” It’s the most powerful phrase in the world: “I can change my circumstances because I can change me.” That’s at the very core of shifting from a victim orientation to a creator orientation. It’s like putting on a new pair of glasses and seeing the world through a different lens: “I am a creator. I created this, so I can create something else.” No matter what’s going on around me, I control my response. I want to finish off today by giving you a few tools you can start using right away, and some additional resources you can turn to. As I said earlier, awareness is everything. Just understanding that drama is a real thing—that we are choosing to participate in it and that we can choose out of it at any time—is powerful. If we’re fighting with someone, if we’re feeling stuck, if life doesn’t look the way we want it to, and we find ourselves blaming, shaming, being negative most of the time—we can stop and ask: “Why am I feeling this way?” “Why am I unmotivated?” “Why am I negative so much of the time?” It’s because we don’t like how life is going—and we feel helpless. That’s the victim mindset. Because in that moment, we’re not choosing to be a creator and make the situation different. So the first thing you have to do is be honest with yourself. You are problem-focused. You’re feeling this way because you are not focused on the solution and what you can do. As soon as you get honest and sit with yourself and say, “Okay, I don’t like how things are going. I don’t like how powerless I feel. But I want to be a creator. I want to own my life. I want to make things different”—that’s when things begin to shift. Then, you can ask yourself these three clarifying questions, which come from a great book called The 3 Vital Questions by David Emerald. He goes into a lot of detail, but I’ll just touch on them briefly. What actions am I taking? When you examine your relationships, ask yourself: How am I relating? Look at your relationship with yourself, with others, and with your experiences. Ask: Is the way I’m relating to myself, others, and my experiences empowering or disempowering? Asking empowering questions is another vital and helpful tool we walk you through in the Academy. It can guide you through this process of awareness and transformation. Ask yourself: Am I relating in ways that foster collaboration, resilience, and innovation? Or am I contributing to conflict and negativity? For example, if I’m with my child and I’m not focused on the good or the outcomes, then I’m relating in ways that create contention and negativity. I’m not innovating. I’m not collaborating. I’m not being resilient. I’m not overcoming stumbling blocks and brushing myself off to keep going. That inner state leads to actions—good or bad. My focus shapes how I relate to the world and ultimately what I do. This third and final question assesses how I'm relating to outcomes: Am I taking proactive steps toward achieving predetermined goals? Or am I just reacting to problems as they arise? Am I sitting passively, letting life happen to me? Am I being unintentional? That’s a key element of being a Mission-Driven Mom: intentionality. Mission-Driven Moms are deliberate. They think things through. They plant their foot, they know what they want, and they take small steps to get there. You predetermine where you’re going. Instead of reacting, you become proactive, like Stephen Covey describes. You choose your responses. Like the men and women in concentration camps who had all their freedoms taken away—you still have the ability to choose how you respond. You always have the power to choose how you relate to yourself, to others, and to your experiences. You can change your inner state by focusing on your intentions and desired outcomes. That change in your inner state changes how you relate, and ultimately, the actions you take. These are the three vital questions I encourage you to explore. Journal about them. Get honest with yourself. Ask how you can be more Creator-focused. I also recommend listening to my interview with David Emerald, which I’ll link in the show notes. It’s part of our Mission-Driven Stories series. David is the creator of the Creator Orientation (the opposite of the Drama Triangle). In that model, the three key roles are the Coach, the Challenger, and the Creator. It’s a beautiful framework—we teach it in the Academy, and it was incredibly eye-opening and helpful for me personally. He gives great suggestions and practical insights. Let me share a few things from a little booklet that provides even more powerful insights. She writes: “In order to break free of victim consciousness, you must take charge of meeting your own needs. You must be willing to ask for what you want or need 100% of the time. This doesn’t mean you’ll always have to ask, only that you’re willing to. Individuating means learning to trust your inner knowing and taking full responsibility for creating the experiences of your life.” You can no longer blame others—or bad luck—for what’s happening to you. Becoming personally responsible for your life is a big part of breaking free from the Drama Triangle. And again, if you feel drawn to join us in the Academy, we’d love to meet you, get to know you, and walk this mission-driven path with you. We’ll give you the tools to break out of the Drama Triangle, discover your gifts, and lead in your home. You can learn more about that at themissiondrivenmom.com. As we wrap up, I want to touch briefly on why we show up in certain ways in the Drama Triangle. This author explains it well: “We each have a favorite place for entering the Drama Triangle, which we learned in our family of origin.” Now, I don’t think this is always 100% the case—but often it is. And I can see it in myself. She explains that parentified children—those who acted as caregivers or peacekeepers in the home—typically enter the Drama Triangle through the Rescuer role. They’ve been conditioned to be people-pleasing caretakers. That was me. I’m number six of my dad’s ten children, but I’m the oldest of the five he had with my mom. So although I had five older half-siblings, I was often the oldest child at home. My dad was gone a lot, and my mom was dealing with her own struggles, so I stepped into a caregiving role early on. I took care of my younger siblings constantly, and I became the helper, the "little general." The author continues: “Parentified children function as little generals to avoid conflict, to feel important, and to stay in control. They often become teachers, ministers, doctors, nurses—people in the helping or healing professions.” But if they haven’t truly stepped out of the Drama Triangle, they may form unhealthy relationships with their clients—because their own wounds remain unhealed. That’s why I said earlier: if you’re seeking coaching or therapy, it’s critical to have a principled paradigm—one we can teach you in the Academy. Then you can discern who’s truly able to help you. She warns: “Counselors and other professional helpers can easily get caught in the Drama Triangle with clients—sometimes in ways that traumatize their clients further.” This often happens because clients and counselors share similar wounds. The counselor’s unhealed trauma can provoke a mutual drama dynamic without either person being aware. As many of you know, my husband has a degree in Marriage and Family Therapy. And while there were some wonderful people in his program, there were also those with deep, unresolved trauma. So just be cautious. Be discerning. The author also explains that: “People who were repeatedly rescued in their families—especially by older siblings or grandparents—often enter the Drama Triangle through the Victim role. They use conflict and drama to manipulate others into taking care of them without having to ask directly.” I see this clearly in my own family—and you probably do too. But we must grow up and grow out of the Drama Triangle. We must become aware of it, learn about it, and consciously choose a different way of being. “Those who were abused as children often enter the Drama Triangle through the Persecutor role. It gives them an outlet for their unresolved pain and allows them to pass on their abuse through a cycle of cruelty.” This can happen in all kinds of abuse—emotional, physical, sexual—or even subtle manipulation. These individuals often find someone “weaker” to act out their desire for revenge.   Ultimately, this all comes back to living a mission-driven life—a life grounded in love. As M. Scott Peck explains in The Road Less Traveled, love is the willingness to nurture one’s own or another’s spiritual growth. That’s what we’re called to do. We cannot have true love, deep connection, or unity if we’re stuck in drama. Drama erases love from our relationships. And love is what we all long for. Real love is only present when we take full responsibility for ourselves, meet our own needs, and only expect from others what they can truly give. That’s why this work is so essential. ➡️ Grab the free audiobook at themissiondrivenmom.com. ➡️ Go listen to the David Emerald interview. ➡️ Watch his videos online. ➡️ Learn more on your own—or let us mentor you through it in the Academy.   The love, connection, and peace you’re seeking—it’s possible. But you have to understand drama… and step out of it. Step into being a Creator more and more. You can do it. You can be the Mission-Driven Mom, the Mission-Driven Woman, you long to be. You can show up differently for yourself and others. And this paradigm shift—along with the Three Vital Questions and other tools—will get you there. Thank you so much for joining me today. It’s a privilege to share these ideas with you. If there’s a topic you’d like me to cover on the podcast, or a question about mission-driven living, I’d love to hear from you. Thanks again—and I’ll see you next time.

Make sure and claim your FREE copy of the audiobook The Mission Driven Life: Discover and Fulfill Your Unique Contribution to the World: https://www.themissiondrivenmom.com/ We want change SO badly! We want to solve the persistent problems we struggle with. We want to move past our roadblocks and begin meeting our potential! But we feel so stuck! In this episode Audrey teaches you one KEY SECRET that unlocks everything for you! When you understand the 3 tools to creating the quantum leap you long for, you'll be on your way to the transformation that makes everything else possible--especially discovering and fulfilling YOUR unique life missions! _________________ Podcast Transcript (AI Generated)  Welcome back to the podcast. I'm Audrey Rindlisbacher, author of The Mission Driven Life and Founder of the Mission Driven Mom. If you’re new to this podcast, you might want to keep up with the latest episodes, but also consider going back and starting from the beginning. We’ve reorganized some of them to give you a solid overview of the Seven Laws of Life Mission and everything we cover here on the Mission Driven Mom Podcast and in our academies. You can also visit themissiondrivenmom.com and get your free audiobook of The Mission Driven Life. That book will help you discover and fulfill your unique contribution to the world. It’s a deep dive into the Seven Laws of Life Mission and provides the foundational background for everything we do. The goal of this podcast—always and forever—is to help you understand how brilliant and unique you are. I want you to know that God has specific missions for you, and that you can pursue those missions by discovering your talents and gifts, and using them to serve your family and community—all while strengthening your family and bettering yourself. It’s a beautiful experience that can unfold for you, your family, and your community when you step into a mission-driven life and get busy discovering and fulfilling the missions God has given you. You can always expect us to talk about the Seven Laws and explore different aspects of a mission-driven life—things that will help you stay on that path and grow. Today, I’m really excited to spend a few minutes talking to you about something that goes way deeper than most of the information you’ll find out there. It goes deeper than your attitude. It goes deeper than your behavior. A lot of what we come across in the world of self-help and self-improvement focuses heavily on attitude and behavior. But today, I want to talk to you about something that gets to the root of what’s really going on inside people like you and me—people who want real change. We want to improve our marriages, our finances, our ability to organize our lives. We want to like and love ourselves and have more confidence. We want to better meet challenges and overcome persistent problems. Because we’re those kinds of people—we’re growth-oriented. But sometimes, what gets in the way is all the surface-level advice out there telling you to "work on your attitude" or "change your behavior." What we’re going to talk about today goes deeper than that. I call it a quantum leap. When you understand what I’m going to share—and when you begin implementing the three tools I’ll give you—you’ll experience a shift where your attitude and behavior begin to change automatically. It won’t feel so hard to get up in the morning and be different—because you are different.   Let me start with a story from my own life—how I faced a problem, and how this deeper concept helped me find a real solution. Years ago, I was struggling with feelings about some extended family members. From my perspective, they were doing much better than we were financially. Their businesses were growing, they were taking more vacations, having more things… and I wanted those things too. I’m an ambitious person, and I couldn’t figure out how we could get those results while still keeping my highest priority: being a full-time mom. I felt stuck and frustrated. That’s what was going on internally. On the outside, I put on my best behavior. I geared myself up to have a positive attitude at family gatherings. I was kind, asked people about their lives, and tried to do all the “right” things. I was constantly working on my attitude and behavior—trying to forgive, trying to stay focused on my own goals. But inside? I was judging. I was comparing. Sometimes, I would elevate myself morally and judge them harshly about things I didn’t really understand. It was all stemming from something deeper—what we’re going to call paradigms. At the time, I didn’t understand that. I just knew I felt uncomfortable. I didn’t know how to engage in a way that was good for me and good for them. And despite all the things I was trying—praying, reading, working hard—I was still struggling. But I wanted things to be different. So I began doing the three things I’m going to share with you today. One of them was choosing to have an open heart and mind—to be willing to consider new perspectives. At some point along the way, I stumbled across a book—because I was also doing another one of the tools I’ll share: actively pursuing new knowledge around the areas where I felt stuck. I was reading books, asking questions, and trying to learn. The book I found was Leadership and Self-Deception. I remember exactly where I was when the paradigm shift happened—because paradigm shifts are that powerful. I was visiting a friend, sitting on her porch in a rocking chair, reading that book. And suddenly, it hit me. I had an insight so powerful that I knew exactly what the problem was, what had been causing it, and what I needed to do next. That’s what a paradigm shift is. It causes you to see the world in a completely new way. So new, in fact, that your attitudes and behaviors begin to follow naturally. The word paradigm comes from the Greek word paradigma, which means "pattern." A paradigm is a model or mental image of the way things are. It’s the deepest layer of who we are. We develop our paradigms as we grow up, through the experiences we have and the things we’re taught. They shape how we see the world. Paradigms are powerful—and you can see that in people whose paradigms are deeply broken. For example, consider a woman who was abused growing up and continues to enter abusive relationships as an adult. Her paradigms about herself and the world are so damaged that she believes this kind of treatment is normal.   She doesn't know how to get out of it. She doesn't know how to see herself, other people, or her interactions with them differently. These patterns are deeply entrenched. But you and I, looking from the outside in, can see what’s really going on—it’s a paradigm problem. She sees the world and herself in fundamentally broken and unhealthy ways. And so, no matter how much she works on her attitude or behavior, she’s going to keep acting in alignment with the way she sees the world. Another way to think about this is through the analogy of a map. If you listened to my podcast on What Is Truth, I shared some analogies for reality and truth—one of them being that truth is like a map. Just as Seattle is a real place, a map of Seattle is either right or wrong depending on how accurately it reflects the real city. And if the map is accurate, it will help you navigate Seattle successfully—you’re least likely to get lost and most likely to reach your destination in the fastest, most effective way. The same goes for us. If we have maps—or paradigms—about the nature of reality that are broken, faulty, or distorted, we won't be able to navigate life effectively. Just like the woman who continues to go from abuser to abuser, we’ll stay stuck in our same persistent problems. Stephen Covey says that all of us think we see the world as it is—but in reality, we see the world as we are. We project onto everything and everyone our own perceptions of right and wrong, how people should behave, what’s good, what’s bad—all based on the paradigms we’ve developed. A paradigm shift is when we have a moment so radical, it’s like the scales fall off our eyes. We see everything differently. And once we see it, we can’t unsee it. And because we see things differently, we automatically start behaving differently. Suddenly, we don’t have to exert so much effort trying to fix our attitude about that thing—it’s just changed.   So, if we want lasting change, instead of only working on our attitude or constantly managing our behavior—and let me be clear, sometimes that is the right place to work—we need to look for patterns in our lives that keep repeating. Maybe we argue with our spouse every Saturday afternoon. Maybe our kids never do their chores. Maybe we wake up feeling down and discouraged day after day. Maybe we lack the confidence to pursue the things we really want. Maybe our relationships always seem to fall apart. Maybe we’re always, always out of money. If we’re facing persistent patterns like these—recurring struggles that never seem to go away—we can be fairly sure that we’re dealing with a broken paradigm. And while principles will always help us climb out of that rut, sometimes we need to see the principles in a new way. We need a new lens. That’s why we must do the work of creating paradigm shifts. Jesus promised that if we ask, we will receive. God loves to help those who are willing to help themselves. So how do we ask? We ask by doing these three things that lead to paradigm shifts: Expose yourself to people who have what you want. Spend time with them. Observe their specific behaviors. See how they live out the principles you’re trying to live. Let their attitudes rub off on you. If you want a stronger marriage, spend time with couples who have strong, healthy marriages. Listen to how they talk about their spouse. Watch how they interact. Immerse yourself in what they’ve written or created. You may not be able to sit down with someone like Dave Ramsey, but you can read his books. You can watch his videos. You can learn from his teachings. Surround yourself with the wisdom of people who have what you want. Keep an open heart and mind. Stay humble. Acknowledge that you may not yet fully understand the principles you need to live. Admit that you still have work to do on your attitude or behavior. But more importantly, recognize that what you really need might be a deep paradigm shift—a fundamental change in how you see reality. Let me give you a real-life example from my friend and colleague Lindsay Wright, who’s been with Mission Driven Mom for a long time. You may have seen her in courses or recordings—she’s amazing. Lindsay used to struggle with exercising consistently. She knew she needed to do it, and the more she learned about the principle of caring for her body, the more her conviction grew. But still—it was a grind. She constantly had to make herself do it. Her attitudes and behaviors didn’t flow naturally. She was receiving some of the benefits of living the principle—because the blessings of true principles are inseparably connected—but it still felt like a struggle. So she kept searching for the paradigm shift. She kept immersing herself in environments and materials that reinforced that principle. And eventually, she saw it differently. Once the shift happened, everything became easier. Her behavior changed naturally—because she had changed the way she saw the principle. That’s how a paradigm shift works. In my own experience, the book Leadership and Self-Deception gave me a paradigm shift that was truly life-changing. I suddenly realized I was the one creating the tension in those family relationships—not them. I was constantly comparing myself to them. And I realized that my behaviors and attitudes—while “good” on the outside—weren’t what mattered most. What truly mattered was how I actually felt about them. I understood, in that moment, that even though I was the one who felt most uncomfortable in those interactions, I was also the one creating the discomfort. The other people weren’t going home and judging me or gossiping about me—I was doing that. And no matter how polite I acted, what was being communicated to them wasn’t my words or actions—it was my feelings. What I really felt in my heart. That’s what they were picking up on. So I realized: I couldn’t expect to have a good relationship with them unless I changed the way I fundamentally saw them. That was the core of the paradigm shift. Not just for those relationships—but for how I saw the world. I knew I didn’t truly know them. I knew I was making assumptions and judgments that weren’t fair. And those assumptions were creating the wrong feelings, which were driving my interactions. That’s when it hit me: Attitudes and behaviors alone won’t fix broken relationships—or any other persistent life issue. Only a change in paradigm will.   I realized that I couldn't just show up, be “good,” and do what I was supposed to be doing. I had to fundamentally see the person—honestly—and love them genuinely if I expected to have a good relationship with them. That meant I needed to get to know them better, and I needed to serve them. And those were things I wasn’t doing. That paradigm shift helped me see everything differently—not just those specific relationships, but all my relationships. Since then, my behavior has changed. My attitudes have changed. In that moment, I instantly forgave them. It was like the scales just fell from my eyes. I suddenly understood that half the things I had blamed them for had never even happened—or probably weren’t even thought by them. I realized I had been making up stories in my head. Everything became very clear. Paradigm shifts change the map. They correct our internal map and reorient us to the territory of reality. They reveal key elements of principles we weren't seeing before, and they help change our attitudes and desires around those principles—permanently.   Lindsay had a similar experience when she finally had a paradigm shift around exercise. She came across some information about the science behind what exercise does for your body—what happens biologically. And for her, that was the shift she needed. She realized: This is biological. It’s part of the fabric of reality. If I want to function properly, I have to do this. I can’t behave the way I want to unless I support my biology. That shift changed everything for her. And paradigm shifts will come—because God loves you. He wants to help you correct your internal map. He wants you to see yourself and the world more accurately. He wants you to live according to truth and receive the blessings of living true principles.   Let me read you a few things from Stephen Covey, who taught me so much about paradigm shifts. This is from the beginning of The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. He writes: "We think we see things as they are, but we don’t. When we open our mouths to describe what we see, we in effect describe ourselves, our perceptions, our paradigms. When other people disagree with us, we immediately think something is wrong with them—but sincere, clearheaded people see things differently, each looking through the unique lens of their own experience." That’s what I was doing with my family members—I was judging, comparing, and filtering their behavior through my values, my expectations, my broken perceptions. And we all do that. One of our MDM students once said that the biggest impact the MDM Academy had on her was that it "changed the lenses." She said it felt like someone wiped off years of buildup—like film or dirt—on her glasses. Suddenly, she could see herself and the world clearly for the first time. Covey goes on: "The more aware we are of our basic paradigms, maps, or assumptions—and the extent to which we have been influenced by our experience—the more we can take responsibility for those paradigms, examine them, test them against reality, listen to others, and be open to their perceptions… thereby getting a larger picture and a far more objective view."   This process happens when we embrace self-education—when we finally say: “I’m tired of this pattern showing up in my life. My paradigm around this must be broken. I must be seeing something incorrectly. I want to break that pattern—so I need a paradigm shift.” And that is exactly why we built the MDM Academy the way we did. We’ve layered in powerful testimonies from multiple authors. One teacher presents a principle one way, then another teaches it differently. You read small, rich selections. You watch short clips. You hear voices sharing what this principle means to them and why it’s so important. We’ve created a space where paradigm shifts happen faster and more frequently—because you’re being immersed in truth. You’re hearing from the best voices, the wisest minds, and you're surrounded by a community of people striving for the same thing. You're working with mentors who have those paradigm shifts and can reflect them back to you. It’s an environment that invites personal transformation. Paradigm shifts happen because you've put yourself in a place where they can happen.   That’s also why people take courses or hire therapists and life coaches. They need their patterns challenged. They need their paradigms examined. They need someone to reflect their reality back to them so they can see it more clearly. Now, not all therapists or coaches are helpful—some just keep us on the same hamster wheel. But the really good ones will challenge your thinking and ask the right questions so you can finally get off that wheel and experience forward momentum.   Another powerful paradigm shift I had in my own life was recognizing that I was a rescuer. I learned about the Drama Triangle, and it completely changed the way I saw myself and my parenting. I realized I had been rescuing as a mom—and that it was deeply damaging to both me and my children. I began to hear voices, read books, and learn from the best sources. Over time, I began to understand the true consequences of rescuing. And that led me to the paradigm shift I needed: I need to stop being a rescuer. I need to become a coach instead. And sometimes, I need to be a challenger. And that shift—again—changed everything.   And the challenger—people can push back against the challenger. People don’t always like the person who’s coaching or challenging them. But that’s okay. I can take the heat, because it’s best for everyone if I show up differently. I just recently had an experience with a child who had a really important deadline. I was very clear with them, leading up to that deadline, about what the expectations were if they wanted to claim our help in this specific situation. When that deadline came, I said, “You didn’t do the things you needed to do by today, and you’ve had a long time to solve this problem. So, I’m saying no.” That’s really tough to say. It’s tough to say to anyone—especially to your children—when it’s something good, something you really want for them. I wanted them to be able to go out and do this thing, and I knew I had the means to just open the door and make it simple. But if it doesn’t cost them anything, if they aren’t in it with me, if they don’t care enough about it to prepare themselves—then I should not rescue them. Because I’d be teaching them the wrong lesson. I’d be getting in the way of reality working itself out in their life. I wouldn’t be teaching them that the law of the harvest is real. And they’re going to bump up against that hard reality over and over in their life. I’ve had a paradigm shift about this—and it has radically changed our home. Let me share one last powerful paradigm shift with you as we wrap up. Then I’ll read something from Covey about what paradigm shifts look like so you can begin to recognize them for yourself. Recently in our business—The Mission Driven Mom and our academy—growth had slowed. We didn’t want that to happen. We wanted to keep growing. In fact, we want huge growth. So, we started showing up differently. We tried to live the principles better, to look at what we were doing honestly, to invest more time in the right things. And those things were helping. We were definitely making progress. But we needed more. We needed paradigm shifts—maybe several of them—because we long for this message to reach millions of people. And we’re not there yet. So we’ve got to close that gap. And the fastest way to do that is to experience the paradigm shifts that will change our attitudes and behavior quickly. So, we made a big investment to put ourselves in the company of people who are much more successful than we are. We also paid for an online business school so we could educate ourselves much more quickly in the principles of success. We wanted help from people who live these principles, and who are seeing great results. We wanted to be in their physical presence—to see the world through their lens and begin to adopt that lens. And it's working. You're going to start seeing growth as you do these three things: Get in company with people who have what you want. Study books, courses, videos—any resources that teach the principles you need. Keep an open heart and mind so the paradigm shifts can come. Because when they do, attitudes and behaviors get a lot easier to change. Here’s what happened for us. After joining this program and paying for the course, a book arrived in the mail from the organization we’re working with. I opened it and immediately knew it was going to change the way I think. It was Benjamin Hardy’s brand-new book, The Science of Scaling. We got an early copy. And we had a radical paradigm shift when he taught us the difference between linear thinking and holistic thinking. Now we understand—we don’t need to run our business in a linear fashion. We’ll see far more success, and more quickly, if we operate holistically: managing our time in holistic ways, thinking differently. Everything changed for us. Our goals changed. Our timelines changed. The way we run the business, the team we’re building—all of it shifted. Our attitudes and behaviors changed. We became excited, energized, and encouraged. Why? Because for months prior, we had shown our commitment to being different. We were doing everything we could to learn and grow. We were keeping our hearts and minds open. If you do those three things—get in the right company, study truth, and stay open—you will experience radical paradigm shifts. And those shifts will change everything for you. You’ll find yourself putting in more hours—but more joyfully. Working more efficiently. Being more consistent in the things that matter. Scaling back unnecessary things. Focusing on the most important things. And you’ll start seeing real momentum. That’s already happening for us. We now have more clarity and I’m super excited for the growth ahead—for all the people who are going to be exposed to the Seven Laws of Life Mission, learn how to live a mission-driven life, come into our Academy, and be changed forever. Many will join our Clapham team after graduating the Academy, and go out into the world—supported and empowered—to make a difference with their gifts and talents, blessing their communities and beyond. Let me be clear—paradigm shifts are not depressing. Yes, they can sting a little. They might be hard to hear at first. You might feel that little internal prick of, “Ugh... that’s true. That’s hard.” But sometimes people think they’ve had a paradigm shift when they haven’t. For example, someone gets terrible news or hears something devastating about someone they love. They get overwhelmed, start doubting their faith, and maybe even leave their religion. But that’s not a paradigm shift. That’s the beginning of a journey—and it still requires a lot of information, questions, details, and hard work. A true paradigm shift is enlightening and empowering. It’s often painful—but not in a despairing way. It might involve recognizing that you need to change—but it comes with a sense of hope, clarity, and forward momentum. You feel energized. You want to learn more. You can see that you’ve been seeing the world incorrectly—and now you see more clearly. It uplifts you. It excites you. It shifts everything in your life. There may be a short moment of, “Wow. I’ve really been messing this up.” Like when I realized how I’d been treating my extended family. That was painful. But after that moment of clarity, I could never go back to being the same. I couldn’t unsee it. Even if I’d wanted to keep acting the same, I would’ve known, deep down, that the distance between us was my fault. That I was holding them at arm’s length. That’s what Covey talks about in The 7 Habits. He shares a powerful story of having a paradigm shift on a subway. In that moment, he said: “Suddenly I saw things differently. And because I saw differently, I thought differently. I felt differently. I behaved differently. My irritation vanished. I didn’t have to worry about controlling my attitude or my behavior. My heart was filled with empathy. Sympathy and compassion flowed freely. Everything changed in an instant.” That’s the kind of powerful experience you can have. And that’s what we’re facilitating for women in the MDM Academy. That’s why they experience so much growth in such a short period of time. Women who complete all levels of the Academy are with us for two or three years—and they are fundamentally changed. They never see the world the same way again. They know how to cut through the confusion in the culture. They know how to discern truth for themselves. They know how to find actionable principles and apply them in their lives. They know how to put their homes in order. I recently asked a few of them what’s changed most. They said things like, “confidence,” “self-acceptance,” “clarity.” The transformation is real. It’s beautiful. And it’s fueled not just by changing behavior or attitude—but by changing paradigms. By changing the way they see the world. That’s what’s possible for you. That’s the journey you can be on—if you choose it. So go out and find people who have what you want. Submerge yourself in the best books and resources. Keep your heart and mind open—and I promise you, God will give you the paradigm shifts you need. He wants you to grow. He wants to bless your life. He has missions for you to fulfill. Thank you so much for joining me today. And always remember: You are unique and gifted. God has special missions just for you. And as you get busy discovering and fulfilling your unique contribution to the world, you’ll watch yourself blossom, your family strengthen, and your community be blessed. See you next time!  

Get Your FREE Audiobook of The Mission Driven Life: Discover and Fulfill Your Unique Contribution to the World: https://www.themissiondrivenmom.com/ As Mission Driven Moms, we LOVE truth, we seek it everywhere and strive to live it all the time! It's comforting to know that there is a standard of truth that has been constant throughout the history of humankind. We can take comfort knowing that right has always been right, and that will never change.  In this podcast we head back into Ancient Egypt to find a robust religious tradition that had a beautiful impact on the every day lives of the people. And guess what?! This "Law of Ma'at" helped them live some of the laws and principles of life mission! We can learn much from their example, and we can become more mission driven by following it! LINKS FROM THE PODCAST:  Stephanie Presents Podcast Interview Homeschool How-To Podcast Interview EP113: The Battle Within: Your Two Consciences at War EP 104: What is Truth? "Truth Seekers Starter Kit" (for natural law video training) Ma'at in Egyptian Autobiographies and Related Studies by Miriam Lichtheim, ebook EP 51: Charlotte Mason on the Power of the Natural Law PODCAST TRANSCRIPT (AI Generated): Welcome back to the podcast! I’m Audrey Rindlisbacher, the author of The Mission-Driven Life and the founder of The Mission-Driven Mom. I’m your host today, and I’m so excited that you’re joining me. If you're new to this podcast, you might want to keep up with the current episodes, but I also highly recommend going back to the beginning. We've actually reorganized the episodes so that you can binge from the start and get a really solid sense of what we’re all about. As you do, you’ll come to understand the 7 Laws of Life Mission—how to begin living them, how they’ll increase your confidence, bring greater order to your life, help you discover your gifts and talents, and put you on the path to making a real, positive impact in your community. That is our overarching objective here: 👉 You have a mission. 👉 You are unique and special. 👉 God has specific work for you to do. And we need you. We don’t want to miss out on what only you can offer. That’s why we’re here—to equip you with the tools you need to live a truly mission-driven life. You can also head over to themissiondrivenmom.com and grab your free copy of The Mission-Driven Life. We're giving you the audiobook completely free, and that’s where you’ll learn how to discover and fulfill your unique contribution to the world. You can also purchase the hardcover for just $16.99. If this podcast has been a blessing in your life, we’d truly appreciate it if you left a review. Your feedback helps others find us, tells them what we’re all about, and increases our reach so we can support even more women on this journey. I was recently interviewed on a couple of wonderful podcasts: Stephanie Presents: https://www.stephaniepresents.com/podcast/episode/30daf577/crack-the-code-for-a-heroic-life-with-audrey-rindlisbacher Homeschool How-To Podcast with Cheryl: https://thehomeschoolhowto.com/episodes/ We talked about all things life mission, and it was such a joy to be on their shows. I’ll link those episodes below if you’d like to give them a listen. A quick update on the book I’ve been working on this year—Truth Makes Us Free. It’s coming along! I’ve completed the first five chapters, which make up Part One, and I have a solid outline for the second half. Based on other commitments through the fall, I’m still hoping to release it by the end of the year—fingers crossed! We’ll be creating the cover soon, and I’ll share that with you. We’ll also offer pre-sales. To help you understand a bit more: This new book is a companion to everything we do here at The Mission-Driven Mom. It’s a deep dive into some key elements of mission-driven living—especially questions like: What is truth? How is it connected to the natural moral law and to true principles? How is truth the framework of reality—and how does it truly make us free? When Jesus said, “You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free,” He meant it literally. We can search out true principles and apply them to our lives in ways that absolutely liberate us. This book goes into detail about what truth is, how to better understand it, what the natural law framework looks like, and how we can be truly set free. I also explore the mechanism that allows us to apply those principles to our lives. I introduced it in our last episode when we discussed the two consciences—that inner battle between the divine conscience and the social conscience. That “angel on one shoulder, devil on the other” situation that we all experience. We talked about how to begin ignoring the social conscience and nurturing the divine one—and how beautiful that process is. That process is what uplevels our character. It’s how we learn to hear God’s voice and His guidance more clearly. And it’s how we become true truth seekers who live out a truly mission-driven life—which, of course, is the entire goal of this podcast. So what can you expect today—and always—on this show? We’ll talk about what it means for you and me to live a mission-driven life. We’ll explore how to better understand and live the 7 Laws of Life Mission, and how those laws guide us to the unique work God has for each of us. With all of that said, I want to spend a few minutes with you today talking about something called Maat. If you know anything about ancient Egypt, you may have heard of this concept—and it’s truly fascinating. What’s even more interesting is how it directly connects with some of the principles we live by in the Seven Laws of Life Mission. To begin, let’s look at Law One: Loving God. One of the key principles of that law is having a willing heart and mind. As we explore the concept of Maat, you’ll begin to see why willingness was so vital—and how the ancient Egyptians lived it so intentionally. You'll also see how they lived aspects of Law Two: Loving Ourselves, as they learned to govern their hearts and minds, and Law Three: Being Truth Seekers. So, there’s a lot of good stuff here. In ancient Egypt, religion was central to everyday life. Their beliefs weren’t just philosophical—they were lived deeply and consistently. One of their foundational convictions was that our time on Earth is just a small part of a much longer existence that began before this life and continues on into eternity. They had a profound belief in the afterlife. That’s where things like mummification, the Book of the Dead, religious scrolls, and their elaborate priesthood and pantheon of gods come into play. Because they believed so strongly in life after death, they lived very differently here on Earth. Today we’re going to talk about how the concept of Maat was all-encompassing for them and how it connects beautifully to what we do here at The Mission-Driven Mom. So what exactly was their paradigm? The ancient Egyptians believed in a pantheon of gods—male and female—who had children, filled various roles, and interacted with both the living and the dead. Among these deities, there was one supreme god who sat on a throne as king and judge of all. He was considered the Lord of Maat. For those of you familiar with The Mission-Driven Life or who have participated in our Academy or events, this concept might sound familiar. It closely parallels what we call natural law. The Egyptians believed that Maat represented the eternal laws of what is good, true, just, fair, and right. They believed there was a real, objective difference between right and wrong—and that it was our responsibility to learn what is right and live it. What made the supreme god supreme, in their view, was that he always lived according to Maat. He perfectly obeyed these eternal laws. He was the Lord of Maat because he embodied it. His power and divinity were rooted in his perfect adherence to truth. Think about that for a minute. Imagine a society where people believe that: They will live after this life. There is a real, knowable difference between right and wrong. There is a supreme God who is supreme because He lives according to eternal law. That was ancient Egypt. They believed it was their duty to follow the example of the supreme God by living in accordance with Maat—to live in line with truth and justice, and to please God by adhering to those divine principles. And here’s the most fascinating part of all: They believed that after death, they would stand before that supreme God and be judged according to the law of Maat. Their lives would be measured against these eternal standards—the same way we would say people are judged according to natural law. And this wasn’t just theory for them. They lived it. We know this from ancient texts and traditions that go back all the way to the Old Kingdom—almost to the very beginning of Egyptian civilization, which lasted nearly 3,000 years. What we’re going to talk about today is part of their culture from beginning to end. Maat shaped their religious rituals, their legal system, their view of leadership, and their understanding of morality. The ancient Egyptians believed that one day they would meet God and be judged. At that moment, their heart would be weighed against a feather. If you're watching on YouTube, I’ll include some images so you can see exactly what this looked like in their ancient inscriptions and scrolls. In these depictions, there’s a god standing nearby, taking note—writing everything down—while the great God sits on His throne overseeing the entire process. In the middle, there is a scale. On one side of the scale lies the Feather of Maat, and on the other, the individual’s heart. They believed the heart contained the conscience—your character, your level of virtue, and your intellect. And here’s what I find so profound: the Feather of Maat was a symbol of truth, justice, and divine order. It represented the standard of what is right. If you lived a life aligned with Maat—if you were good, just, and true—then your heart would be light, light as a feather. But sin and wrongdoing weighed the heart down. That’s why your heart could be weighed against the feather. If you lived according to Maat, your heart remained light. Your burdens were lifted, your soul was at peace. If your heart weighed more than the feather, it meant you had lived in opposition to divine law, and you were not ready to pass into the afterlife. Isn’t that fascinating? This symbolic idea of a “light heart” shows up across many traditions. You’ll find it in the Bible, in the Quran, and in other major world religions. They speak of having a soft heart, of righteousness bringing peace, of goodness making life easier, lighter, and more joyful. This ancient Egyptian imagery beautifully mirrors those truths. Because they so deeply believed in this final judgment, the Egyptians wanted to be fully prepared. They wanted to be able to pass the test. Now, in different periods of Egyptian history, they also believed that after death, you had to pass through various gates and give specific names or answers to get through. This is where the famous Books of the Dead come in. These scrolls—often buried with the body—contained everything the deceased might need in the afterlife: instructions, names, prayers, and protective spells. What developed very early on was the idea that those who could afford it would work with priests—or, if literate, write it themselves—to create a personalized scroll to help them navigate the afterlife. A core feature of these scrolls was a powerful spiritual practice known as the “Negative Confessions.” We have so many examples of these because they were carved into tomb walls, written on the inside of coffins, and later, included on scrolls placed within the wrappings of mummified bodies. So, what were these Negative Confessions? They were statements made by the deceased as they stood before God, affirming what they did not do during their life. The person would say things like: “I did not steal,” “I did not lie,” “I did not harm others.” These confessions were essentially proof of righteousness—evidence that the person had lived according to Maat. But here’s the catch: they had to be completely truthful. You were standing in front of the all-knowing God. He would know if you were lying. So these confessions had to be uttered with confidence and integrity—a pure offering of a life well-lived. The implications of this practice are so powerful—for the individual, their family, and for the society as a whole. When a culture teaches its people that they will be judged by eternal standards, and that they must personally account for every choice, it raises the level of personal responsibility and virtue. It shapes how people live their lives day to day. When they spoke these negative confessions, they were saying to God: “I lived according to the Maat. I restrained myself from wrongdoing. I sought to be good and just. I am worthy of entering the afterlife.” I want to share a few of these confessions with you, because what you’ll find is that they align with your own moral compass. They reflect universal truth. I talk about this more in Chapter 2 of The Mission-Driven Life, and I go deeper in the upcoming book How Truth Makes You Free. You can also listen to my podcast episode, What Is Truth, or visit audrewalker.com and download the Truth-Seeker Starter Kit, which includes a recording of a Natural Law deep dive I gave at one of our MDM Celebration events. Here’s the key point: This idea of a universal moral law isn’t new—and it isn’t mine. It’s ancient. In the West, we call it Natural Law or Moral Law or The Law of Human Nature. In ancient Egypt, it was Maat. In Hinduism, it’s Rita. In Chinese philosophy, it’s called the Dao. It has many names across cultures and time periods. But it is the same truth. It is the moral framework by which men and women can live the best lives possible. C.S. Lewis described it as “the instruction manual for human beings.” God created us, and He wrote this moral law into the very fabric of our being. It’s written on our hearts. We can know what is right and wrong by listening to our conscience—what I call the divine conscience. And we can nurture it, educate it, and allow it to govern our lives. This principle—the alignment with Maat, or Natural Law—was so well understood and so thoroughly embedded in Egyptian society that I truly believe it's one of the key reasons that civilization lasted for nearly 3,000 years.   It was, and it truly was, the way a person was meant to live. Now, of course, there’s a lot more to the story. The ancient Egyptians weren’t perfect. They had slaves. They enslaved the Israelites. There was corruption. But even with those realities, just the fact that they knew the natural law—and believed they would be held accountable for their behavior, if not in this life, then certainly in the afterlife—is significant. They believed they would have to confess what they had done—and, even more interestingly, what they hadn’t done. That’s what I love about the "negative confession" tradition. It proves they didn’t believe they had to be perfect, but rather that they needed to do the best they could to live according to as many of the principles of Maat as possible. That effort, that striving, would shape them into a certain kind of people. Let me share a few examples of these negative confessions. We have many of them—hundreds, in fact. Here’s one from a tomb inscription; I won’t try to pronounce the name, but it's found on the right side of the facade. It reads: “I have gone from my town. I have descended from my nome, having done justice for its Lord, having contented him with what he loves. I spoke the good. I repeated the good. I grasped the right manner, for I wanted the good for people. I judged two parties so as to content them. I saved the weak from one stronger than he, as best I could. I spoke truly. I acted justly. I gave bread to the hungry, clothes to the naked. I lent to the stranded. I buried him who lacked a son. I made a boat for the boatless. I supported the orphan. I never spoke evil against anyone to a potentate.” Now, if some bells aren’t going off in your mind right now, they should be—because those words clearly echo Jesus’ teachings. In Matthew 25, Jesus says: “Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, ‘Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.’ … ‘Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.’” Jesus goes on to say that those who failed to do these things will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous will enter into life eternal. So the same ideas Jesus teaches—care for the weak, feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, supporting the orphan—are right there in ancient Egyptian spiritual practice. According to their beliefs, that’s what made someone righteous. That’s what earned them eternal life. It’s incredibly compelling. I found a great resource that compiles a number of these negative confessions and analyzes the values they reveal—I'll link it for those who want to dig deeper. Now, I want to turn to my copy of The Book of the Dead. I want to clarify something: there isn’t just one single Book of the Dead. It’s a genre of funerary texts, and what’s commonly referred to as The Book of the Dead is a specific, beautifully illustrated scroll—about 77 feet long—belonging to a priest named Ani. His scroll is one of the most complete and elaborate we have, and it’s often the version that gets published. Here are some of the confessions from Ani’s scroll—statements he would have made to the gods to prove that he lived in accordance with Maat: “I have not done iniquity. I have not robbed with violence. I have done no murder. I have done no harm. I have not defrauded offerings. I have not diminished oblations. I have not plundered the gods. I have spoken no lies. I have not snatched away food. I have not caused pain. I have not committed fornication.” So yes, they had strict sexual codes, and not committing fornication was an important declaration of moral conduct. “I have not caused the shedding of tears.” (This means he didn’t intentionally cause others emotional pain.) “I have not dealt deceitfully. I have not transgressed. I have not acted guilefully. I have not laid waste to plowed land. I have not been an eavesdropper. I have not set my lips in motion against any man. I have not been angry or wrathful, except for a just cause. I have not defiled the wife of any man. I have not polluted myself. I have not caused terror. I have not burned with rage. I have not stopped my ears against the words of right and truth.” I love that one. It means he didn’t reject good counsel. He didn’t close his heart or plug his ears when truth and righteousness were being taught. He was open to learning and humble enough to be corrected. “I have not worked grief. I have not stirred up strife. I have not judged hastily. I have not multiplied words exceedingly. I have done neither harm nor ill. I have never cursed the king. I have never fouled the water. I have not spoken scornfully. I have never cursed God. I have not stolen. I have not defrauded the offerings of the gods. I have not plundered the offerings to the blessed dead. I have not filched the food of the infant. Neither have I sinned against the god of my native town I have not slaughtered, with evil intent, the cattle of the gods..”   These confessions give us incredible insight into the values of ancient Egyptian society—and what they believed mattered most to the gods. It’s a powerful reminder that the natural law, the moral law, was understood deeply and broadly across civilizations. We may use different names—Maat, Natural Law, Rita, Dao—but it’s all the same framework. It’s the divine pattern for human flourishing.   And then Ani goes on. He includes these beautiful prayers. I wanted to read you a short section from one of them—this one addressed to Thoth, the Righteous Judge: “Thoth, the righteous judge of the great company of the gods who are in the presence of the god Osiris, hear ye this judgment. The heart of Seth hath in very truth been weighed, and his soul hath stood as a witness for him. It hath been found true by ritual in the great balance. There hath not been found any wickedness in him. He hath not wasted the offerings in the temple. He hath not done harm by his deeds, and he uttered no evil reports while he was upon the earth.” That’s what Ani hopes to have said about him at his final judgment—that he is accepted, that he is deemed righteous, and that he passes the ultimate test. In one of the resources I found, the author makes a fascinating point. She demonstrates that even the gods were subject to the law of Maat—and that they also lived according to it. One passage tells us that the four sons of Horus lived by Maat, but the king merely aspired to it. So there was this clear understanding that there was a division between gods and men. The key distinction was that men were trying to live according to Maat, while the gods embodied it. The king, then, was attempting to be like the gods by aligning himself with Maat. Here’s a quote from that ancient source: “Peppi is one of these four gods—Imsety, Hapy, Duamutef, and Qebehsenuef—who live by Maat, who lean on their staffs, who watch over Upper Egypt.” Now shifting to a different text: The Instruction of Ptahhotep. This is Maxim Number 5: “Great is Maat, lasting in effect, undisturbed since the time of Osiris. For one punishes the breaker of laws, though the greedy one overlooks this. While baseness may seize riches, crime never lands its wares. In the end, it is Maat that lasts. Man says, ‘It is my father’s ground,’ while baseness may seize riches—crime never lands its wares.” These verses convey that Maat was viewed as a primordial condition—firmly founded and enduring. And when activated, it could overcome all forms of wrongdoing. Maxim Number 19 elaborates: “That man endures whose rule is Maat, who walks a straight line. He will make a will by it. One who is greedy has no tomb.” There is also this striking image at the final judgment. I'll link some pictures and the YouTube video so you can see it. There’s a devourer—this terrifying creature—standing next to the god who weighs your heart. As you give your negative confession, if your heart is found wanting—if you haven’t lived according to Maat—the devourer consumes your soul. You cease to exist. That’s quite a consequence. Here are some of my takeaways from all of this—from the ancient Egyptians’ beliefs and from this principle of Maat. By making a list of all the things they had not done, according to natural law, they could confidently present themselves before the gods. They wouldn’t have to lie to God. They could stand before Him in honesty, shedding themselves in the best light, while still acknowledging that they were not perfect. They were striving to live by Maat as much as possible, every day of their lives, because they knew the final judgment was coming—and they didn’t know when. That awareness—of a coming judgment—would produce a lot of self-discipline. Think about it: if you knew you were going to stand before God, and you’d have to say, with full confidence, “I did not do these things,” then that knowledge would influence your daily choices. This system created an internal framework of personal restraint, one that hugely benefited society. Many of the people who left behind negative confessions were in positions of leadership. They had the means to hire priests or scribes—or were literate themselves—and chose to record how they lived. These leaders shaped culture. They were accountable for their choices and felt obligated to live rightly. Imagine a society in which leaders are constantly taking care of orphans, feeding the hungry, avoiding murder, theft, and adultery—not because of law enforcement, but because they know they’ll stand before God. That would create a stable, virtuous culture. One source put it this way: “The soul is rewarded for living a good and virtuous life.” That’s a foundational paradigm of Egyptian civilization—and one I don’t think we talk about enough. Yes, they were human. Yes, they did bad things. But their religion was deeply embedded in their culture. It compelled them to govern themselves. It gave them a moral structure. They believed they would have to answer for their behavior, and that drove them to self-discipline. That’s so cool. It’s undeniable evidence of both the universality of the natural law and the power of a truth-centered life. And if you listened to my previous episode on “What Is Truth?” you’ll be able to connect the dots here. Maat is the natural law. It’s what the Egyptians called it, but it’s the same idea. One thing I love is how this belief structure shifted the focus. They weren’t pretending to be perfect. But they were focused on living righteously. They were building a mental framework that aligned with natural law. And that’s what we need. We live in a culture that has stopped asking, “What would God think of this behavior?” And because we’ve stopped asking that, we’ve lost a critical self-correcting mechanism. If we asked that question more often, we’d rein in the drinking, the promiscuity, the obsession with pleasure. We’d ask, “What can I say to God, that He’d be proud of?” “What did I do to honor His law?” Of course, like any ritual, it could become trivialized. But the consistency of this mindset—over 3,000 years—gave Egyptian civilization a deeply rooted sense of right and wrong. One last point. I hope it doesn’t sound repetitive, but I’m passionate about this: There are so many lies in our culture right now. One of them is that ancient people only believed in God because they were afraid of natural disasters. The modern view paints them as primitive—doing rain dances because they didn’t know where storms came from. But when you actually go back and read what they wrote, study what they built, and understand what they believed, you find a people who were highly sophisticated—morally, intellectually, spiritually. Take ancient Egypt, for example. The structures they left behind are astounding, and the religion they practiced was about far more than managing the elements. It was about moral alignment with eternal law. Maat wasn’t superstition. It was a moral code. A spiritual discipline. A guide for living in truth.   People understood that the foundation of life—the foundation of living a good human life—was understanding what is right and what is wrong, and then living according to it. They also knew they needed to prepare themselves for eventual judgment before God. What that meant was that religion wasn’t the foundation—it was actually an outgrowth of the moral law they were trying to live. This understanding influenced their daily lives. It tempered their behavior constantly. It demonstrated a relationship between men and the gods. Man wasn’t afraid of God, cowering in a corner, just hoping He would stop the hurricanes. Man was submitting to God’s higher law—trying to please Him with his behavior. He loved and respected and honored God as God, and he worshipped Him. He wanted to show that love and honor through his actions—not through human sacrifice or by just going through the motions. This was a religion that was experienced every day. It was something you were expected to wake up in the morning and think about: “I have to live a certain way to please God and make sure that my eternal life becomes what I want it to be.” It was a very forward-thinking way of living, and it was all wrapped up in a perception of how humans ought to live—not in a fear of the elements. I just want to make that clear, because it’s a big, fat lie whenever you hear that ancient people only believed in God because they didn’t understand natural forces. Now, let’s move to our takeaways as we finish up today. One of the most common negative confessions in ancient Egypt was that a person never doubted the natural law or the existence of God. They always knew He was real, that His law was real, and that they had an obligation to live according to Maat. This really demonstrates the principle of willingness that is part of loving God. They were willing to admit that God was God, that He was in charge, that it was His rules—not theirs—that men and women had to obey. And by doing that, they believed they could please Him and become the best people possible. In their culture, the best people were the ones who followed Maat the most closely. That’s a hugely important lesson for you and me. You could go back and listen to my Charlotte Mason podcast, where I explain some of the ideas from the first volume in her Home Education series. She’s amazing. And what she does is exactly what I want to do—what we’re all about here at the Mission Driven Mom: helping people understand how truth can make them free, and how they can live according to that truth to discover and fulfill their life missions. Charlotte Mason explains that parents do their children a huge disservice when they act as though people who are pious and go to church are always, no matter what, living more of God’s laws than people who don’t—or who do so less frequently—or even those who say they don’t believe in God. Because it’s all about obedience to God’s laws. She says that you can go outside, feel the warmth of the sun, and still deny that it exists. People can live according to God’s laws and still deny that those laws come from God. But His laws are always accompanied by blessings. So our willingness—our humility and teachability—is always going to be the linchpin of whether or not we receive the blessings we seek, and whether or not we solve the problems that persist in our lives. Because the answers are out there. We can find the truth, and it can make us free. The question is: what is the condition of our hearts? And that brings us full circle, back to the Egyptian view of the heart. The heart must be a willing, teachable heart. Another principle this really exemplifies is Law 3: Loving Truth. The Egyptians were deeply interested in understanding virtue and core principles so that they could live according to them in their daily lives. These truths were present. They were clear. They were prolific throughout the negative confessions. There was no confusion about what was right and wrong—it was consistent. And, interestingly, it matches our ideas of right and wrong today. Now, of course, some things—like not engaging in fornication—aren’t as widely accepted anymore. I talked about this in the last podcast. That’s because our social conscience has been distorted. But that’s something you and I can correct. And maybe… one of you listening has a mission to help correct that. That would be incredible to witness. One last thing, as I mentioned at the beginning: Law 2, Loving Yourself. You can’t really love yourself unless you’re striving for self-mastery. And part of self-mastery is governing your heart and your mind—knowing that God is God, that He loves you, that He has gifts for you. He wants you to uncover those gifts and use them in His service. And He expects you to align your heart and mind with His laws and His will. That’s how you partner with Him to do things that will have immense positive impact. If you haven’t listened to many of the Mission-Driven stories on this podcast, I highly encourage you to go back and listen. You’ll begin to see the common threads these mission-driven men and women share: humility, seeking truth, disciplining themselves to live according to conscience. And the story of ancient Egypt’s history is aligned with all of that. Which means they would have been happier—as their lives aligned more closely with true natural law. So I want to end by reminding you that you are unique, and you are gifted. God has special missions just for you. You ought to get busy discovering and fulfilling them. And as you do, you’ll watch yourself blossom, your family be strengthened, and your community be blessed. Thanks for joining me. I’ll see you next time.

The concept of the Two Consciences--what they are, how they work, and how to navigate them--has been one of the most helpful frameworks I've ever learned! It has enabled me to discern truth from error much more clearly and to better manage myself and my decisions with confidence. While much more detail on this topic will be available in my upcoming book How Truth Makes You Free, I wanted to introduce you to this idea and enable you to begin utilizing it now. I hope it blesses your life as immensely as it has blessed mine! CONQUER Your Worries and "Mom-Guilt" Right NOW for FREE: https://www.themissiondrivenmom.com/ _________ Podcast Transcript (AI Generated) Hey, welcome back to the podcast. I’m Audrey Rindlisbacher, author of The Mission Driven Life and founder of the Mission Driven Mom. As I’ve mentioned before, I’m currently working on my new book, How Truth Makes You Free. This book is divided into two parts. Part One walks through the framework of what it really means for truth to make us free. Why does that matter? What is the nature of truth? How does this framework work? And most importantly—what is the mechanism by which we actually know what’s true? I’ve been working on that chapter lately: the mechanism. How do we identify truth? How do we discern it? There are so many fascinating stories around this. One of my favorites, which I include in the book, is the story of Shinichi Suzuki—yes, the same Suzuki from the Suzuki method. You can also hear it in his mission-driven story from a previous podcast episode. Suzuki’s father owned a violin factory, but young Suzuki didn’t play the violin and didn’t really understand what they were even for. One day, at about 17 or 18 years old, he went to work at the factory. Typewriters were a relatively new thing, and there happened to be one there. He’d never used one before, but he sat down and started playing around with it. Just then, the factory manager walked in, saw what he was doing, and panicked: “Master Suzuki! You can’t use a typewriter without paper—it will damage it!” Without missing a beat, Suzuki replied, “Oh, I wasn’t typing. I just had my fingers on the keys.” But he had been typing—and he knew it. That small lie hit him hard. He was immediately filled with remorse. “Why would I lie about something so stupid?” he thought. The fact that he was so troubled by such a small lie actually speaks volumes about his character. He left the factory and went home, but he couldn’t settle down. Pacing around the house, completely uncomfortable with himself, he eventually decided to go downtown. He wandered into a bookstore and picked up a copy of Tolstoy’s diary. The book fell open, and his eyes landed on these words: “The conscience is the voice of God, and a man who lies to himself is worse than one who lies to others.” That moment changed his life. He determined then and there that he would always follow his conscience. He bought the book, took it home, and devoured it. From that day forward, he carried it with him and committed to living in harmony with his conscience. He, of course, went on to become an incredible person. I’ve said this many times before on the podcast, but there are countless examples of great men and women who, in telling their life stories, describe a pivotal moment like this—when they chose to listen to their conscience, to let it guide them to better actions and higher outcomes. So what is the mechanism by which we know truth? It’s our conscience. I was reading today and reflecting again on what an absolute miracle that is. I’ve spoken at many events and led countless groups through a simple activity where I ask people to take just one quiet minute and answer this question: What is one thing I know I need to do moving forward in my life? And every single time, without fail, each person—thousands at this point—has been able to name at least one thing. That, to me, is miraculous. That we can instantly know what to do, simply by being still and listening. Listening to what? To whom? To that inner voice—your conscience—that is trying to guide you. And here’s the beautiful thing: when people go home and act on what they heard in that moment of stillness, their lives actually get better. It’s one of the most amazing tools we have. It helps us discern what’s true, what’s false, and what to do next. Now, Stephen Covey introduced me to something that took this idea even further: the concept of the divine conscience. He shared the story of a friend who had been taught some strange things growing up. For example, if he ever ran a stop sign, his parents told him he had to drive around the block three times to “make penance.” You can imagine—if that was one of the lessons he internalized, there were probably a lot of others like it. Years later, in a conversation with Covey, this man shared that story and then said, “That’s why I think sometimes it’s best to ignore your conscience and just use common sense.” That experience may have contributed to Covey developing the idea of the two consciences, which has become one of the most helpful concepts I’ve ever learned. I’ll dive deeper into it in my upcoming book, but I want to introduce you to the idea today because it’s incredibly powerful. If you look up the term social conscience, you’ll find definitions related to social consciousness—the idea that we should care about society, right its wrongs, and help the poor and needy. That’s a good thing. But it’s not what Covey was talking about. He made a distinction between the social conscience and the divine conscience. That story about going around the block three times? That’s an example of the social conscience in action—a conscience shaped by social conditioning and upbringing, not by eternal truth. And if you stop to think about it, I bet you can identify examples of this in your own life—times when you felt compelled to act a certain way, not because it was truly right, but because you were taught to feel guilty, afraid, or ashamed. Covey’s distinction helps us untangle these internal conflicts. It helps us ask: Is this my divine conscience speaking? Or just my social conditioning? And that question can change everything.   That need to go around the block three times—that was a manifestation of what Stephen Covey would call the social conscience. Society had taught that young man this strange habit. His family, his social environment, had ingrained in him something completely unnecessary. In contrast, his common sense—what Covey calls the divine conscience—overruled that nonsensical behavior and helped him realize, “No, you don’t actually need to do that.” So what does this look like in our day-to-day lives? Well, there’s a mechanism at play. One way to describe it comes from Thomas Reid, who taught that natural law is written in the hearts of mankind by the finger of God. What he's essentially saying—and I could give you many quotes to back this up—is that there are things that are right, and there are things that are wrong. And the first principle of natural law is this: Seek the good. It’s in our nature—woven into the very fabric of what we are as human beings—to know there’s a difference between right and wrong, and to feel drawn toward what’s right. Even as young children, we have an innate sense of this. And even when children are raised in unhealthy environments, they often still know something’s wrong. That’s how powerful this intuitive sense is. Covey calls this the divine conscience because it comes from God—a higher power—something outside of us. It leads us toward light, goodness, truth, beauty—toward what we ought to be doing, and away from what we shouldn’t. And when we align ourselves with it, life goes better. Anyone who has seriously committed to following their conscience will tell you the same. The social conscience, on the other hand, is what we’re trained into. It’s what we’re taught as children, but it’s bigger than just our families. It’s the culture we live in. The social conscience is shaped by collective norms and expectations about what’s right, wrong, good, true, and beautiful. So if we think of conscience as a mechanism by which we discern truth and determine how to behave, we can see that the divine conscience is grounded in what is intrinsically, objectively true and good—while the social conscience reflects whatever the culture currently believes. And if you know your history, you know that the social conscience changes. For example, a hundred years ago, premarital sex was universally condemned in Western society. There were even laws with punishments for it. Today, it’s not only accepted, but often encouraged—and many people engage in it without a second thought. Why? Because the social conscience is now loud and culturally dominant on this issue. Now, maybe the first time someone crosses that line, they hesitate. They feel conflicted. But then they override that hesitation, and eventually, it becomes normalized for them—because that divine conscience was drowned out by the social one. There’s an old sitcom—I can’t remember the name, but it starred Valerie Bertinelli. You might remember it. The show followed a single mom and her two daughters. In one episode, the daughter has a boyfriend, and she’s considering having sex with him. She goes to her mom and asks, “Is this right or wrong? Should I do this or not?” And the mom says something like, “I can’t think of a good reason why you shouldn’t… but I don’t want you to.” It was such a striking example. The mother couldn’t appeal to God, to truth, to moral law—because they’d lost their faith. And the social conscience around her was saying, “It’s fine. We’ve got the pill. It’s safe. Everyone’s doing it.” But despite all that, both the mother and daughter still hesitated. That moment of pause? That was their divine conscience, still alive, still speaking. In the end, the girl felt too uncomfortable and refused. The boyfriend broke up with her—and in doing so, revealed who he truly was. She wanted to wait, and that told her something important about herself and him. So these two consciences—the social and the divine—are always in tension. It’s like the classic image of the angel and the devil on your shoulders. There’s an internal battle between what society says and what your soul knows. And when your divine conscience is out of sync with the social conscience, it creates inner turmoil. The wider that gap becomes, the harder it is to find moral clarity. It becomes increasingly difficult to discern the truth. That’s why Covey taught that the solution is to educate the divine conscience. To train it to become more and more attuned to what is real, true, and right. When your conscience tells you to do something—or not to do something—and you listen, you strengthen your character. You become more virtuous. You align your life with divine law, with natural law, with those true principles that govern human behavior. And in the words of Cecil B. DeMille: “We cannot break the law. We can only break ourselves against it.” There are many ways to educate the divine conscience—I'll get to those in just a minute. But it’s so important to first understand this: The social conscience can be deeply oppressive. It tells you: “You should believe this.” “You must support that.” “You ought to agree with us.” And yet, if you pause long enough to listen—really listen—you’ll often hear that still, small voice saying: “No. Something about this isn’t right.”   Sometimes society tells us, “Let it go. You should tolerate this or that behavior,” even when it feels intrinsically wrong to you. And that’s a really hard place to be. As we’ve discussed, a hundred or two hundred years ago in the United States, the social conscience and the divine conscience were far more aligned—far more in sync and in harmony. People were still people, of course. They still made mistakes and had weaknesses. But at least society wasn’t patting them on the back for doing something dishonorable. Some behaviors are inherently wrong. But if we aren't taught they’re wrong—and if society keeps insisting they’re not wrong—and if we don’t educate our divine conscience—we’ll eventually just agree with the social conscience. If we don’t pull back… if we don’t train the divine conscience… then we won’t have anything to hold up against the social conscience. We’ll simply go with the times, go with the flow. Whatever society says is good, bad, right, or wrong—we’ll adopt it. Now, we do have a divine conscience written on our hearts. So we’ll feel guilt when we do something wrong. We’ll know we shouldn’t have lied… cheated… cut corners… whatever the case may be. But if we don’t correct ourselves—if we don’t make the change, if we don’t tell ourselves the truth about how our actions were out of alignment with what we know to be right—then we begin to dead-end our conscience. We wear it down. Beat it back. You can see this in people who once felt bad about a certain behavior—but then, over time, stopped feeling bad. As they continued doing it, they worked themselves into a new normal. So if we want to hold fast to objective reality—the natural law, the moral law given by God—we have to educate ourselves in it. We have to align our behavior with it, so we have something to contrast against the social conscience. And it’s become clear to me that as we do this—we also influence the social conscience. In some kind of cosmic way, we all have a responsibility for the collective moral climate. We’re all either contributing to it or being shaped by it. I hate to bring up Nazi Germany again, but I think it’s important. There’s a book—recommended by Jordan Peterson—I’ll link it in the notes. I can’t remember the title offhand, but it’s a study of ordinary German men. Most were in their 30s or 40s, average citizens with families and normal jobs. They were recruited into the war. At first, they found the tasks they were given deeply uncomfortable. Many even refused to do them. They knew they were wrong. But eventually, under pressure from their peers, their superiors, and society, they began to comply. Over the course of just a year or two, they grew comfortable with what they had once found horrifying—mass killings of Jews. They went from average men who rarely touched a gun, to men who could march Jewish children into a ditch in the woods and gun them down. This is how it happens. We all participate in making the world better—or worse. We either challenge the social conscience… or we conform to it. We can be the kind of people who stand firm, who shine with conviction, who strengthen the collective moral compass. Or we can be the kind of people who go along—because we want to keep our jobs, because it’s uncomfortable to stand out, or because we’ve rationalized that maybe it’s not a big deal. So how do we educate our divine conscience? First, we recognize it as a mechanism given by God. And if it comes from God, then we get to know God better. We build a relationship with Him. We read His words. We work to become more like Him. Second, we study the lives of men and women who followed their consciences. We draw strength from their examples. We learn how they made courageous choices—and we do the same. Third, we commit to small acts of conscience every day. And over time, those small things become big things. We sculpt our character through daily obedience. Fourth, we learn about the conscience itself. The word conscience literally means “knowledge with”—knowledge held in common with God and with others. That’s fascinating to me. It reminds us that conscience is not private whim—it’s a shared moral knowing. Fifth, we teach conscience. We push back against cultural lies. We speak truth. Even in small ways, we build strength to stand tall when the big tests come. As we do these things—refining our divine conscience, growing in virtue—we receive the beautiful rewards of moral clarity and inner peace. But it doesn’t stop there. We also begin to impact those around us. Our influence spreads—from our family, to our community, to our culture. And if enough of us commit to this—like Suzuki did, like so many great men and women before us—we can help bring the social conscience back into alignment with the divine conscience. That was the great moral tension in America during the 1800s. A terrible practice had crept into the nation… and the North and South stood on opposite sides of the moral divide.   The North stood against it, and the South defended it—forced slavery—and that moral conflict created a deep tension in our nation for the first hundred years. It was an ongoing battle over the social conscience, and in the end, truth prevailed. 📍 Hundreds of thousands of men and boys—Black and white—gave their lives to fight against that egregious practice. They fought to bring our social conscience into better alignment with a higher truth. That, to me, is something truly beautiful. Over time, the social conscience was corrected. And then, men and women continued to rise—leaders who helped us see each other more clearly as equals, who worked to put all people on a level playing field. Slowly but surely, more and more opportunities opened up for Black Americans. And today, we’ve had a Black president, we have powerful Black leaders, entrepreneurs, and influencers—people who are making a global impact. So yes, beautiful things happen when we do the work to align our lives with our divine conscience, to educate it, and then work together to build a healthier social conscience. There are still many areas in our world today where the social conscience needs healing—places where it has strayed far from truth, beauty, and goodness. And so, my challenge to myself—and to you—is this: Start today. Educate your divine conscience. Live in greater alignment with what you know deep down to be good, true, and right. Recognize that you are the greatest beneficiary of that effort—and so is the world around you. Another key way to do this is by finding true principles and choosing to live by them—in every area of your life. That’s what the Mission Driven Academy is designed to help you do. There, you’ll receive The Mission Driven Life, which teaches the Seven Laws of Life Mission—an incredible place to begin if you’re ready to move forward with clarity and purpose. Because ultimately, when each of us takes this seriously—when we educate our divine conscience and courageously follow it—we become the kind of people who can help heal the world. We can help make our society more good, more beautiful, and more whole. Thank you so much for joining me today. I’ll see you next time.

If you've ever found yourself losing it when your kid acted up... If you've ever promised yourself you'd be more patient next time... If you ever wish you responded better when things didn't go your way... This podcast is for YOU! Years ago, a simple way of looking at patient and bearing through hard times came to my attention and has been a tremendous help to me! And I KNOW it will help you too! Ready to "Overcome the MOM-GUILT?!" Get your FREE mini-training here: https://www.themissiondrivenmom.com/   Transcript:  Welcome back to the podcast. I am super excited for you to spend the next few minutes with me. We are going to talk about patience and how you can be more patient, even when you don't want to be and you don't know how. There's a concept that I learned a few years ago that has been super helpful to me in understanding the connection between obtaining a vision and being a creator in the world and needing to exercise patience and how they're all connected. I'm going to give you some tools for that. Before we get into that, if this podcast has been a blessing to you in your life, I would love for you to share it along and give us a review that helps others to know, uh, what it is that we're doing here and how it might benefit their lives. All right, let's dive into patience now. If you have ever had someone tell you that you just need to be more patient, and it made you super mad then join the club, because I have been there many times. Let's look at patience. Here's a simple definition you can pull from Google. It's waiting without becoming upset or annoyed. It's tolerating, delay, trouble, or suffering without anger or upset. And it's one of those things that we have a certain ability, a certain cap on our patience capacity, I would say, and it's hard to know how to get beyond that. I mean, what is patience? After all? It's been considered a Christian virtue for a long time. It's something that is talked about in scripture quite a bit. It's something that we feel that maybe we should be. Or others should be, or we would like them to be patient with us, patient with themselves, patient with the process. And yet it's so hard to do. It's so hard to not get upset when things get hard. So I'm going to tell you a little story here of something that happened in a workshop that will give you kind of a visual for how this tool of patience works. “When participants enter the meeting room on the third day of the Living Art Conference, they find seven water glasses placed in a diagonal line on a table in front of the room. A pitcher filled with water is next to the line of glasses. The glasses are empty. Just before the class begins. I fill one glass with water. Nothing is said about this action, and most of the class does not seem to pay attention to the event that has taken place. Just before the morning break, I fill another glass with water. Some of the participants notice, but only one person asked me a question about it during the break. ‘What are the glasses for?' he asks. ‘That's a good question,’ I answer nonchalantly. ‘You're not going to tell me,’ he asks. ‘That's another good question.’ I answer with a smile. He laughs and then goes out to have a cup of coffee. The morning's work has been very exciting and the events filling the water glasses, the events of filling water glasses are very small by comparison. When the class convenes, I casually fill another glass with water. Nothing is said about it. I do not fill another glass before the lunch break. Most people hurry off to the dining room. A few remain to talk about the content of the morning. No one mentions the glasses. When the afternoon session begins, I fill another glass with water. Two or three people snicker. Someone asks, ‘When are you going to drink them?’ I just smile. Most people seem not to be paying much attention to the question or to my lack of an answer. Then the class is divided into groups to conduct some experiments and nothing more is said about the glasses. An afternoon break is called, I do not fill another glass with water. During the break, someone rushes up to me to ask if she can have a drink from one of the glasses. No, I answer. Oh, she says, with a knowing grin, I wonder what she thinks she knows. Rosalyn begins the next session just before she begins to lead the class. In an exercise, she fills another glass with water. ‘Hey, she can do it too,’ someone is heard to say in the late afternoon. Rosalyn calls a break. She does not fill a glass with water. When Rosalyn comes back from the break, she finds that some of the water has been removed from one of the glasses. The water level in the glasses that have been filled was about the same across all the glasses when she left the room, now one glass is missing half its original amount. Roslyn pours water into it, bringing it up to the same level as the others, and begins the next part of her session. Rosalyn leads the class through some remarkable techniques, and for the last part of the session, people discuss their insights and report their experiences. The energy is high and exciting. Rosalyn fills another glass with water, then calls the dinner break. There are seven water glasses in a diagonal line, six of which are now filled with water. A few more people ask what is going on with the water glasses? That's a good question. We answer when we come back from the dinner break, we find that someone has left a little flower in one of the filled glasses and another glass has mysteriously lost about a third of its water. I add water to the depleted glass, bringing the water level back to its original level, and remove the flour. Just before I begin the evening session, I fill the remaining glass with water employing great exaggerated formality. Most people cheer, some laugh. A few seem not to notice. Take out a piece of paper please and write down what you think has been going on with the water glasses. I say I collect all the answers in a small basket and give the basket to the first person in the first row. ‘Take out one of the answers and then pass the basket to the next person.’ I say, ‘Now read the answer written on the paper.’ The person reads. 'There are seven glasses that are filled with water. Over time, I think that Robert will place some music on them because there are seven glasses, just as there are seven nodes in the Diatonic Music scale.’ ‘Thank you,’ I say. Then the next person reads the answers he has taken out of the basket. ‘Water symbolizes purity in life, and seven is a universal number. The glasses have been filled over time, which symbolizes the universe has filled with the fluid purity of life.’ ‘Thank you. Next please.’ The next one says, ‘Seven glasses are filled with water throughout the day. This is tension. When all of the glasses are filled, that is a resolution.’ Then they go on with other answers that the people have. And I'll tell you more about this in just a minute, but I want to stop right there and talk about this answer that this person had. Tension is another way of thinking about patience. If you envision yourself holding onto a rubber band and you pull that rubber band with your fingers or between your hands, and you pull it until it's tight and maybe even beyond where it's tight and then you hold it. That's tension. Tension always seeks resolution. So over time, as you hold onto this rubber band, you'll get tired of holding it. Your muscles will physically get tired. And you will want to let go. That rubber band wants you to release the tension on it. Your hands, your mind, even because this is a psychological principle, as much as as it is physical, wants that tension released. It's important to understand that where there's no tension, there's no need of patience. There are plenty of things in your life that are going on every day. And you don't have to exercise patience around them. They come and go. They happen. They don't bother you. You aren't tempted to get angry or upset or express negative emotion around something. But when you are, those negative emotions that either express themselves or want to be expressed are an indication that something is testing your patience, that there is some kind of tension in your life that you want resolution to, and this tension is uncomfortable. It's tiring, it's hard work. Now tension is absolutely necessary in life. It is the key to all storytelling and storytelling is the most fundamental thing that we do. We tell each other's stories. We create our lives into a story and we communicate best, we remember best, what is put in story form. We are story creating and storytelling beings at our very foundation, and there's not ever a story told that doesn't have tension. The whole point of a story is to create tension and hold on for the resolution. The end of the story is the resolution, and that's when the tension is released and the thing fills whole. And if you're with someone and they start telling you a story that's really interesting to you, you will remember and return to them to have that tension resolved for yourself because you need to finish hearing that story. This is in the contrasts in the dark and light, and all of the opposites in the world. This is a fundamental element of art, that there is tension that must be resolved. In fact, there's tension in the physical world, and it's only through tension that we can do things like fly planes. So what's really fascinating about patience is that it is an element of personal growth that is often completely overlooked, but it's absolutely vital to our ability to become more because patience must be practiced when tension is present. And tension is only present when there's an expectation. When you are tempted to express negative emotions, it is a lot of the time, not always, but a lot of the time it is because your patience is being tested and the reason your patience is being tested is because you have a vision, a goal, or an expectation of yourself or someone else that isn't being met, and it creates tension and discomfort. You want the resolution of seeing that expectation or that goal or that vision resolved. And what's fascinating about this tension is that tension is the only way that growth is possible. Just as you must pull on a rubber band or push on something, if you'll think about any type of exercise for the physical body, it's a pushing or pulling type of exercise. Tension is created. Resistance is part of the process of breaking down the muscle so that more can be grown, and that is why if we want to reach better goals, if we want to engage in personal growth, if we want to become more than we are, patience is an absolutely indispensable part of that process, and it is tolerating the tension until the resolution comes. And that means we are not exercising patience if we are emotionally upset that isn't patience. Patience is when we hold the tension without the negative emotion. Now, ideally the tension is what keeps things interesting when we understand exercising patience as a way of holding tension. Then we can start to see that it's the tension that's making the muscles grow. It's the tension that's making us more than who we were, and it's the tension that's keeping things interesting, and that's causing us to keep working. If we were completely comfortable and we had everything that we had ever dreamed of or desired, we would stop working. We would stop growing. We would stop practicing patience. Holding tension is actually one of the most vital things that we can do to grow as individuals. This is the same concept as the law of the harvest. Things only grow when there's delay. When you plant the seed, you must wait. You cannot change the law. You must hold the tension, but you can aid that seed in growing. By doing the work, and we'll talk about this more in a minute, the seed is most likely to be harvested, to become what you want to become when you're vigilant throughout the process. And that is how you hold the tension properly is you're anxiously engaged while you hold the tension. You don't just hold the tension and sit there. You hold the tension by doing the work that's necessary to the outcome that you're trying to create. And this is why it's so vital when you're practicing patience to work within your own center of influence. And we'll talk about that more in just a minute. Okay. Here's a couple quotes about this that are really, really helpful. “One of the most important life lessons, one that is essential to your life as a creator, is mastery of tension resolution systems.” So what he's saying here is that you cannot grow as a person unless you learn. To hold tension, to practice patience by holding tension with optimism and excitement, and being forward-looking, looking forward to the result that you're striving to create. “As you master tension resolution systems, you master the ability to engage in your own personal growth.” You cannot become more tomorrow unless you choose to create systems in where you're forced, systems where you're forced to grow. Now, these can be systems other people have created. We do this all the time when we sign up for classes. We choose to be intention. We choose to practice patience, to engage in actions that will cause our growth. And to delay our satisfaction, the resolution of that grade that we don't get until the final test. We force ourselves to work and work and work, and we engage in our own personal growth. Here's another one. “If you have not become intimate with delayed resolutions, you will not be able to achieve long range goals.” This is what maturity is really about. The most mature people in the world can delay their gratification. They can practice patience for the longest periods of time. They literally have the most patience because they can hold the greatest amount of tension for the longest period of time. It's really a fascinating way to look at the growth that you want to engage in. Now let's return to our glasses story. They did a debrief after the fact, and he actually had several of the students in his workshop. He asked them questions and broke down their response to the tension resolution system that he created. He created a situation for them that they did not understand, that they did not know how to resolve, or they had no option but to practice their patience and to wait and watch and see what would happen. This is one example of how he breaks these down. “The events of filling the glasses with water had no special meaning other than the construction of a simple tension resolution system. The order in which the glasses were filled was arbitrary. The amount of water in each glass was approximately the same. In fact, that was all that was going on. I told the class, even though that was factually true, an incredible learning experience took place. When we began to talk about what people did with this tension resolution system during the day. During our discussion, some absolutely fantastic insights were brought to the surface. Much of the dialogue concerned what the class did when confronted with the unknown, we began to explore what different people thought at different points during the day. ‘I thought you were going to just drink a lot of water. At first,’ one woman said, ‘but then you didn't drink any water.’ ‘What did you think?’ Then I ask her. ‘Well, then I thought that the glasses would be used later to make some kind of music. After I figured that out, I felt a lot better.’ ’Why did you feel better?’ ‘Because then I knew what was going on.’ ‘But you didn't know what was going on.’ ‘True. But I thought I did.’ ‘But in fact, you did not know what was going on.’ I repeated. ‘Yes. So why did your speculations make you feel better?’” (And we're going to talk about speculations in just a minute.) She says, ‘because I don't like not knowing what's going on.’ ‘Why not?’ ‘I don't know. It just makes me a little nervous.’ ‘What are you nervous about? Not being fully in control.’ Just as a side note, I gave a keynote at an online conference last week and I was talking all about the power of the natural law and true principles and how they can change your life. I can't remember how we got into it. Some questions were asked at the end, and I was talking about kind of this idea without really talking about it in depth about how my children are all across the faith spectrum, which we've talked about on this podcast before. And what that requires of me is holding a lot of tension. We don't have the resolution in my family that I ultimately want, you know, and. I can't, I don't get to be in control all the time. And so what I talked to them about was just letting go and working on the relationship. And one of the women came back with, “I just don't see how I could do that because I just need to be in control.” This is a huge theme for so many moms that I've talked to and that we've brought through the academy and that we've worked with. Believe me, I am a recovering rescuer. I want to feel in control. I want to think that I can juggle all the pieces and that with enough good teaching and enough good advice that everybody will just make all the perfect decisions, which frankly, the longer I live, the more I realize that I didn't have all the best answers in the first place, and probably not everybody would've been better off taking my advice all the time, quite frankly. So this is something that I really wanted to hit on for all of us.because I know you moms out there are like me and you want to be in control.The way that you're trying to be in control and manage the tension that you're holding when you don't have outcomes in your home and in your life that you want is through speculation and giving yourself false perceptions that make you feel in control when you're actually not in control. That makes you feel like you know what's going on when you actually don't know what's going on. So he says to the woman, “‘What are you nervous about?’ And she says, ‘Not being fully in control.’ And he says, ‘Why do you need to be fully in control?’ ‘That's a good question. I suppose it's because when I was a kid, I never knew what was going on.’ ‘And as an adult, sometimes you still don't know what is going on.’ ‘True.’ 'Is it okay that sometimes you don't know what's going on?’ ‘Yes, but… well… 'When you think you know what's going on, what do you do with that information?’ ‘I act appropriately.’” That’s her answer. ‘I act appropriately.’ What I wrote in my book is, “But it can't be appropriate because you don't actually know. That's what's so ironic, and this is just a human, this is just part of the human condition. We want to know what's going on and we want to act appropriately, which is totally fine. But when we try to manage that need and when we try to alleviate the tension through speculation, we actually cause sometimes more harm than good for ourselves and for other people.” So he goes on, she says, ‘I act appropriately’ He says, ‘What does that mean?’ ‘Oh, it means I won't screw up.’ ‘So you think you will screw up if you don't know what's going on?’ ‘Yes.’ ‘What makes you think that?’ ‘There were times in the past when I screwed up because I didn't know what was going on.’ ‘Were there ever times when you screwed up, when you did know what was going on?’ ‘Uh, yes.’ ‘Were there ever any times that you didn't screw up and you didn't know what was going on?’ ‘Yes.’ ‘Then I don't see the connection between what you know and whether you screw up.’ 'Now that you mention it, neither do I.' ‘So you formed a theory about the glasses because you didn't know what was going on, and you feel nervous when you don't know what is going on. You think you might screw up by not acting ‘appropriately’ knowing what is going on, or at least thinking you know what's going on. Is an action you take to avoid losing control and avoid screwing up?’ ‘Yep.’ ‘What do you think now?’ ‘I'm amazed. I never realized that about myself.’ ‘Have you formed a lot of theories about life and about you and about the world?’ ‘You bet I have.’ ‘What do you think now? I think I'm going to pay more attention to what I really know and what I don't know.’ One of the things I wrote in the book here is we do this all the time in our relationships. We don't like not knowing what's going on, and it's painful to hold the tension. Not blaming. Not speculating. That's the truly mature way to operate, but it requires a capacity to hold tension. So then he goes on to talk to some of the other people, and in the end they come up with these kind of, basically these five ways that people were approaching this tension resolution, problem or system that they were faced with. See if you see yourself in any of these. Number one, “many people speculate when something is unknown to them. The function of the speculation is not simply to satisfy curiosity, but to give them a sense of security and tenuity. Many of the people in the group came to realize that they often speculate and theorize about many things in their lives.” And we're going to talk about what we can do instead of speculating, we watch something. The intent, the tension is uncomfortable. We don't have true understanding. And so we speculate. We come to quick conclusions. We create theories and we do this all the time when we gossip. You know, there was a situation in our family recently. We are hearing very third person about a situation that none of us has any firsthand information about the way that it's being fed to us sounds kind of familiar to another situation that happened in the family years ago. So someone in the family made a comment. They speculated and they theorized based on this very limited amount of information and the tension that should be held in a more mature approach to the circumstance, holding tension properly would've been to give this person that's in this situation that looks like their character is being compromised. The more mature thing would've been to hold the tension longer. To give them the benefit of the doubt and to not draw any conclusions yet based on the limited information that we have. But a few people started drawing conclusions immediately, speculating and theorizing by equating this person to a person in the past who genuinely was somewhat evil and vindictive, and did do things for the wrong reasons, and did really genuinely hurt people. We know that because the whole situation has born out and we all have firsthand evidence. We all know the truth. But now in this new situation with very limited information, people are starting to quickly speculate and theorize to manage the tension and the discomfort of the situation. And they blame. They blame quickly. We do this, we hurt ourselves and we hurt other people in our unwillingness to be patient. To simply hold the tension of the current situation and not try to rush to the resolution too quickly in order to alleviate the discomfort that we feel. Okay, here's another one way people handle tension. For some unknown reason the unknown leads them to want more control, power, and authority. I mean, maybe they speculate too, but another thing that they do is to try to get control and people who were drinking the water and putting flowers in it were trying to increase their power over a situation they had no control over by intervening with something that was really none of their business. These weren't their glasses. It wasn't their water, it wasn't their conference. It was really actually none of their business, but they couldn't withhold intervention of some kind in a desperate need to feel in control. The third group, there were others he said, who formed their sense of identity by what they know, how much they know or what is relevant to know. So some of these people were making it all about them. Their identity was in question when they were engaged in attention resolution system, in a situation that called for them to practice patience. And they weren't up for it, and so they started attacking themselves or thinking about themselves in different or weird or distorted or unhealthy ways. A fourth were those who seemed not to notice any events regarding the water glasses, but as we explored further, we discovered that they indeed had noticed, but they could not understand what was going on. This created a conflict in them, and they attempted to reduce the conflict by becoming uninvolved. This is a way that I tend to manage tension, is to ignore it, to distract myself away from it, to pretend like it's not happening, or, to get my identity caught up in it, to blame myself about it, to figure out how I need to be different to resolve it. And the fifth one was others carried around an ideal that they imposed on the water glass situation. “Many of the interpretations, such as water means purity and seven is the universal number are examples of this phenomenon.” So people had different ways, these five different ways that they noticed in this experiment of trying to manage a situation that called upon their ability to practice their patience. So what do we do instead? Instead of trying to understand everything all the time, gain power and control over situations that are not ours to control, getting our identity all caught up in it or becoming aloof to things that we should pay attention to or that are that we should try to understand, or especially speculating. What can we do instead? One of the things that the author says is in the creative process, which all of us, you and I moms, we're creating everything. We're creating dinner, we're creating our hairstyles. We're creating the aesthetic in our home. We're creating the environment. We're creating the faithful opportunities. We're creating our own character. We're we're creating the kind of person that we're becoming, and "tension is the engine that generates energy for action.” Tension is vital. We have to intentionally step into tension, which means we have to get better at practicing patience and instead of speculating by placing blame, by equating one thing to another when they don't equal each other. By pretending that something is what it isn't, or trying to control the situation. Here's what we do instead. The first thing that we do is we get really, really honest when we find those negative emotions coming up in us, when we see ourselves losing our patience, becoming aggravated, negative, and out of control, when we see that in ourselves, we want to stop, stop and take stock of reality. We want to be honest about what's actually really going on and what we actually really have control over because we don't have control over a lot. But we also have control over everything in the sense that we have complete control of ourselves. I would encourage you around this concept to go back to The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People. Read the first habit and to look at the circle of concern and the circle of control that Covey helps us to see and to recognize that the first thing we have to do is work on us. Work on you. If you are frustrated at the way your children are behaving, if you're frustrated at the way your house looks, if you are worried about your finances, whatever those things are in your life that are causing you this emotional discomfort where you don't have resolution, recognize that the negative emotions mean there's something you care about. And the tension means that there's something you want. You would not feel these emotions of discomfort and negativity unless you cared about yourself. You cared about your home. You cared about your children. You cared about your marriage. You cared about your personal growth. That is a good thing. These are indicators that you care. So embrace that. Recognize that you care, and that that's a beautiful thing about you. If you didn't care, you would be indifferent to everything. You wouldn't get up in a ruffle, you know, you wouldn't get upset about things. And the tension means those negative emotions, the anger and the upset are drawn from some kind of vision. You hold an ideal a. An expectation, a goal. So what you've got to do is get really honest about the fact that you care about something and that you have a vision of where you want to be, of where you want that thing to be, what you want your kitchen sink to look like of the way you want your children to behave. But you've got to get honest about reality and what it is in this ideal that you're holding this unstated, maybe even to this moment, unrealized expectation you're holding, get honest about it. Get honest about the fact that you keep getting frustrated with your kids, that you don't like their behavior, because you care about their behavior and you hold an ideal of what their behavior ought to be. You are having a hard time holding the tension between what the outcomes are right now and what you want them to be. You want resolution. You want them to behave differently. You want to cross the finish line on the ideals that you hold. What are those ideals? What is it that you're wanting from them? What is this expectation or this goal that you may have never even realized that you're hanging onto? Journal it. Write it down. Get super honest and clear about what that is, and look at it honestly, and spend some time in Covey and look clearly at your true locus of control. And then set a real goal. Something that's not this unrealistic ideal, but that's tangible and realistic for you and your children, somewhere that you can get to in the near or distant future through the next thing that you're going to do.   And that is take the baby steps. So once you've assessed the reality. Of why you care and what it is that you care about and the ideal that you're trying to get to, then you can set a better goal and you can have a vision. Now, the tension resolution system you're going to create is now going to be based in the reality of your life. It’s going to be based on things you can legitimately control. You’re going to stop measuring yourself and your kids against an unvocalized, sometimes even subconscious ideals that you didn't even realize that you had. And you're now going to have a realistic measuring stick of things that you can control so that you can actually make real progress, and you can actually hold the tension to a point of resolution that's attainable, and this is how your personal growth is attained. This is how you alleviate unnecessary, unrealistic tension that's never going to go away for true patience as you act in diligence toward a desired vision. And what you're going to do as you work toward this vision is instead of speculating and theorizing, you're going to observe. You are going to notice positive changes. You're going to take time every day to ask yourself the next right baby step toward your vision that's measurable, and then you're going to assess how you did today. The goal was that you were going to teach a principle to your children and then put some kind of clear benefit and consequence in place around that principle with your children. Then mission accomplished. You took the baby step toward having a more harmonious peace filled home. Now, what do you need to do tomorrow to continue to work toward this vision? What's the next baby step? How do you need to act tomorrow? And how can you hold the tension and be proud of your own behavior and your own responses working on the peace that you actually have control over? Okay. A couple thoughts to finish this up here. As you learn to practice more patience by recognizing the negative emotions and then being honest about reality, assessing what it is that you care about and what it is you ultimately want. Then working on what's truly within the locus of your control. Observing instead of speculating, taking baby steps each day toward your vision, and then eventually getting there. You are engaging in a beautiful, creative process, and now you understand what it means to practice patience, how it is that you can hold tension until you have resolution. And that is the achievement of the goal that you're working on. And then you do that over and over and over again, and that's how you take control of yourself, of your life, of the life that you are creating. Let's end with this. “Most people do not think about forming the end result before they take action, but when you do, you can act with more direction, more efficiency, and more effectiveness.” When you practice patience, you hold the tension that is the lifeblood of all growth in life, and you are choosing to increase your ability to hold greater and greater amounts of tension, which helps you grow more and more as an individual and it increases the impact that you're able to have on others around you, because now you can accomplish greater and greater goals through the mastery of your own patience. Thanks so much for joining me. I'll see you next time.