The Non-Billable Podcast

Today, we unpack the private wealth angle of Taylor Wessing’s merger with Winston & Strawn. Partners Gabriel Estevez and Nick Warr explain how the firm defines private wealth as a holistic, multi-service offering built around high net worth individuals and families, rather than a narrow private client practice.They discuss how the market has evolved, with clients becoming more international and more sophisticated in how they structure and invest their wealth. Today, the vast majority of clients operate across multiple jurisdictions, and the rise of second and third-generation wealth is driving a more institutional approach to decision-making.The conversation also touches on the migration of wealth out of the UK, with hubs like Milan and Dubai gaining traction. While recent tax changes have accelerated the trend, the shift has been underway for years - and for globally positioned firms, it often creates more complex, cross-border work.Finally, they look ahead to the Winston Taylor combination, with private wealth set to be a core pillar of the new firm. The ambition is to build a genuinely integrated US-UK offering - something the market has so far struggled to deliver at scale.The Non-Billable Podcast is sponsored by Legora. To find out more about Legora, visit: https://legora.com/ Today’s episode is also supported by Definely. To find out more about Definely, visit: https://www.definely.com/nonbillable Chapters00:01 Introduction01:30 Private wealth vs private client: what’s the difference?02:54 How the private wealth market has evolved04:37 The rise of international, mobile wealth06:27 Are high net worth individuals really leaving the UK?09:32 What private wealth lawyers actually do day-to-day14:10 How Taylor Wessing positions its private wealth practice20:10 Winning clients in a relationship-driven market23:48 What the Winston Taylor merger means for private wealthAbout Non-BillableNon-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

In this episode, Dr Catherine Sykes, a psychologist and coach who works with City lawyers, explains why burnout is so common among high-performing professionals, and why it’s often misunderstood. Drawing on decades of experience, she argues burnout is not simply about long hours, but “constant effort without psychological returns with no end in sight,” where meaning, satisfaction and growth are missing from the work.The conversation explores the psychology of lawyers, particularly the role of perfectionism. Sykes also breaks down the early warning signs of burnout and why the instinctive response to “work harder” can make things worse. Instead, she argues that recovery often requires stepping back and in some cases seeking out new challenges to break out of unfulfilling work patterns.The episode also dives into imposter syndrome. Her core message is that sustainable performance comes from shifting away from perfectionism towards high standards, building self-trust and ensuring work delivers meaningful psychological returns.The Non-Billable Podcast is sponsored by Legora. To find out more about Legora, visit: https://legora.com/ Today’s episode is also supported by Definely. To find out more about Definely, visit: https://www.definely.com/nonbillable Chapters00:01 Introduction02:35 From academia to coaching: specialising in burnout04:37 The psychology of high-performing lawyers07:12 What burnout actually is (and isn’t)10:44 Early warning signs and what to do first13:48 Breaking the burnout cycle and finding balance16:28 Imposter syndrome explained21:19 Perfectionism vs high performance24:30 What peak performance really looks likeAbout Non-BillableNon-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

In this episode, David Nicol, headhunter and co-head of Marsden’s US practice, breaks down the structure of the US legal market and how it has evolved over the past decade.From the dominance of New York as the global dealmaking hub to the distinct identities of markets like California, Texas and Chicago, he explains why the US is far more complex and fragmented than many outside it assume.The conversation explores the rise of firms like Kirkland & Ellis and Latham & Watkins, and how they have reshaped the traditional hierarchy once dominated by Wall Street white shoe firms. We also get into the economics of the top end of the market, including partner pay, the realities of the lateral market and what it takes to attract and retain elite rainmakers. Nicol explains why compensation structures, client demands and platform capabilities all play a role in driving partner moves.Finally, the discussion looks ahead to what could shape the next phase of the US legal market, from the continued growth of private capital and restructuring work to the potential impact of AI on law firm economics and structure.The Non-Billable Podcast is sponsored by Legora. To find out more about Legora, visit: https://legora.com/ Today’s episode is also supported by Definely. To find out more about Definely, visit: https://www.definely.com/nonbillable Chapters00:01 Introduction02:40 Understanding the US legal market structure04:39 Why New York still dominates global Big Law07:07 California, Texas and the rise of regional powerhouses12:30 Boston, Chicago and DC: key secondary markets16:33 Magic Circle firms in the US: what’s working and what’s not23:07 Partner pay and the $30M rainmaker reality28:19 Lateral moves, Wachtell and shifting firm models32:02 Kirkland, AI and what comes next for Big LawAbout Non-BillableNon-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

Isabel Parker, chief innovation officer at White & Case, joins the podcast to talk about what it takes to drive innovation inside a global law firm. A former Freshfields lawyer and Deloitte partner, she shares how her career evolved from practice into leading transformation at one of the world’s largest firms.She explains why innovation isn’t just about technology, even in the age of AI. The real challenge, she says, is time and mindset - getting lawyers to see tools like AI as part of their core role, not something delivered by a separate team. Her goal is to shift ownership of innovation to lawyers themselves.We also get into White & Case’s AI strategy, including the build of its in-house platform Atlas and its broader approach. Parker makes the case for developing internal capability alongside adopting best-in-class tools, particularly in such a fast-moving market.Finally, she shares her views on what will actually differentiate firms going forward - not the tools themselves, but how quickly firms can upskill their people and make better use of their data. And for individual lawyers, the key skill is simple: disciplined curiosity.The Non-Billable Podcast is sponsored by Legora. To find out more about Legora, visit: https://legora.com/ Today’s episode is also supported by Definely. To find out more about Definely, visit: https://www.definely.com/nonbillable Chapters00:01 Introduction02:30 From Freshfields lawyer to innovation leader04:37 Lessons from Deloitte and working closer to clients06:39 What a Chief Innovation Officer actually does08:59 Why time and mindset are the biggest barriers to innovation11:56 Culture, experimentation and the lawyer mindset14:59 White & Case’s AI strategy and building Atlas17:56 Build vs buy vs partner: making the right AI bets23:51 What will differentiate law firms in the AI eraAbout Non-BillableNon-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

John Hutchinson, managing partner of top 100 law firm Broadfield, joins the podcast to discuss the firm’s transformation from BDB Pitmans into a tech-enabled, internationally focused mid-market player. He explains the thinking behind the rebrand and the partnership with SHP, a subsidiary of Alvarez & Marsal, designed to support investment in technology, talent and global expansion.He outlines how that relationship works in practice, with Broadfield remaining independent but gaining access to infrastructure, strategic insight and tools like Harvey. The goal is to build a more integrated, end-to-end platform for delivering legal services, while improving efficiency and client value.Hutchinson also shares his perspective on private equity in law, arguing it works for some firms but isn’t the only model. Broadfield is instead focused on long-term growth, international reach and more "sensible pricing", moving beyond simply increasing hourly rates.Looking ahead, the firm is targeting expansion across Europe and the the Middle East, with a focus on private capital and cross-border work. Hutchinson says success in today’s market will come down to combining technology, talent and a clear value proposition for clients.The Non-Billable Podcast is sponsored by Legora. To find out more about Legora, visit: https://legora.com/ Today’s episode is also supported by Definely. To find out more about Definely, visit: https://www.definely.com/nonbillable Chapters00:01 Introduction02:40 From BDB Pitmans to Broadfield: the rebrand and strategy shift06:18 The Alvarez & Marsal connection and tech-driven model09:55 Private equity in law firms: opportunity and limits14:12 Building an international platform: US, Hong Kong and beyond17:43 The mid-market squeeze and rethinking pricing models22:09 AI, Harvey and the impact on law firm economics24:21 Leadership, culture and managing rapid change27:25 Hiring strategy and attracting the next generation of partnersAbout Non-BillableNon-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

Pierre Proner is the CEO and co-founder of Lawhive. He joins the podcast to explain how his company is combining AI with a regulated law firm model to rethink consumer legal services. He shares how Lawhive pivoted from initially offering software to law firms, driven by a mission to improve access to legal help and reduce the inefficiencies in how consumer law is delivered.He discusses why selling software to traditional firms only went so far, with resistance tied to billable hours and legacy models. That led Lawhive to become a law firm itself, building an end-to-end AI operating system that supports everything from client intake to drafting and back-office work, with lawyers staying firmly “in the loop”.The episode also breaks down how the model works across markets. In the UK, Lawhive uses a consultancy-style platform, while in the US it operates through an Arizona ABS and a co-counsel network. Proner says the tech can significantly increase lawyer productivity and earnings by reducing non-billable work.Finally, he talks about growth. With over $100 million raised, Lawhive is now focused on scaling in the US through expansion and acquisitions, aiming to build a global consumer law firm powered by AI.The Non-Billable Podcast is sponsored by Legora. To find out more about Legora, visit: https://legora.com/ Today’s episode is also supported by Definely. To find out more about Definely, visit: https://www.definely.com/nonbillable Chapters00:01 Introduction01:20 From fintech to legal tech: the origin of Lawhive03:41 Building an AI operating system for consumer law06:19 Why selling software to law firms wasn’t enough07:47 Becoming a regulated law firm and changing the model10:03 Inside the Lawhive platform: AI across the full workflow13:05 Productivity gains, margins and lawyer economics17:05 UK vs US: consultancy model and co-counsel expansion21:06 Funding, US growth and the ambition to build a global consumer law firmAbout Non-BillableNon-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

Ropes & Gray has been quietly rolling out one of the most ambitious European growth strategies among US firms in London. In this episode, London managing partner Rohan Massey and antitrust partner Ruchit Patel, who also sits on the firm’s governing policy committee, join the show to discuss how the firm has grown its London office from a two-partner launch in 2010 into a 250-person hub.We talk about the firm’s push across Europe, including the recent launches in Paris and Milan, and why Ropes sees London as the centre of a broader European platform. Patel explains how the strategy is driven primarily by client demand - particularly from private capital clients - and why the firm has chosen to build a single integrated European platform rather than operate offices as separate profit centres.The conversation also explores the competitive dynamics of the London market, where US firms have dramatically expanded over the past decade. Massey and Patel discuss how Ropes thinks about talent, lateral hiring and institutionalising client relationships, including why the firm emphasises collaboration across offices and practice groups.Finally, we get into one of the firm’s more unusual strategic choices: sticking with a single-tier, all-equity partnership while much of the legal industry moves towards multi-tier structures. The Non-Billable Podcast is sponsored by Legora. To find out more about Legora, visit: https://legora.com/ Today’s episode is also supported by Definely. To find out more about Definely, visit: https://www.definely.com/nonbillable Chapters00:01 Introduction
01:44 The origins and growth of Ropes & Gray’s London office04:31 The rise of US law firms in London05:43 Ropes & Gray’s European private capital strategy09:57 Paris and Milan: the firm’s newest growth engines11:30 Why Ropes believes collaboration is its competitive edge14:45 Talent, lateral hiring and building the partnership17:47 Institutionalising client relationships across the firm20:08 Why Ropes is sticking with a single-tier equity partnershipAbout Non-BillableNon-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

Legal tech has gone from “let’s run a few pilots” to “we need to scale this across the whole firm” - and Peter Duffy says that shift is now well underway in the UK’s top law firms firms.Peter is the founder of Titans, a boutique legal tech and AI consultancy advising large law firms, and he joins the podcast to take the temperature of the market and explain why things feel like they’ve accelerated so sharply in the past year.We dig into how firms are buying right now: a strategic bet on a general-purpose legal AI platform - with Harvey and Legora emerging as the leading contenders at the top end - and then a layer of point solutions where the platform workflows still leave gaps. Peter also explains why many in-house tools made sense early on, but why firms are increasingly hitting a ceiling trying to compete with well-funded vendors shipping at startup speed.Peter weighs in on the recent chaos around Anthropic’s legal tools and why he thinks the market reaction was knee-jerk. “If I was to run an RFP… that would absolutely not be in the top 10,” he says, arguing the product is still nowhere near what specialist vendors can do today - even if the direction of travel is obvious.Finally, we talk moats and where legal tech competition is heading next: why Peter doesn’t think bespoke LLMs are the differentiator right now, why workflow-fit and enterprise readiness matter more than people think, and why the smartest move for law firm leaders is simple: make sure the whole workforce is AI fluent - while avoiding the temptation to burn money trying to outbuild the vendors.The Non-Billable Podcast is sponsored by Legora. To find out more about Legora, visit: https://legora.com/ Chapters00:01 Introduction01:41 Taking the temperature of the legal AI market04:02 From pilots to platforms: how firms are buying AI06:32 What the leading legal AI platforms actually offer09:56 How much law firms are investing in AI10:53 Copilot, in-house tools and the limits of DIY AI13:08 The platform power law: Harvey, Legora and the funding gap25:10 Anthropic, incumbents and the battle for legal infrastructure33:55 The smartest AI decision law firm leaders can makeAbout Non-BillableNon-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

In this episode, we sit down with DWF CEO Matt Doughty to discuss what comes next for the UK’s biggest private equity-owned law firm.We discuss DWF’s positioning today: a 5,000-strong global business generating more than £500 million in revenue, split roughly 50-50 between insurance services and commercial legal work. Doughty explains why the firm is doubling down on five core market groups and why “discipline” and clarity about a firm’s “right to win” matter more than chasing the latest trend.A major theme of the conversation is, understandably, capital. Doughty revisits DWF’s 2019 IPO - the largest law firm listing at the time - and what life was really like as a public company, from market disclosures to share price scrutiny. He reflects on the challenges of telling a complex equity story to investors, the impact of macroeconomic headwinds, and what ultimately changed when private equity firm Inflexion took the business private in 2023.Now operating under PE backing, Doughty outlines why he believes private equity isn’t right for every firm, and why he doesn’t expect a “tidal wave” of investment into Big Law.The Non-Billable Podcast is sponsored by Legora. To find out more about Legora, visit: https://legora.com/ Chapters00:01 Introduction01:20 Taking over as CEO and following Nigel Knowles02:45 Leadership style and protecting DWF’s culture06:32 DWF today: insurance, commercial and global scale09:34 The five market groups driving growth13:12 Why DWF chose to IPO in 201915:46 Life as a listed law firm: governance and share price pressure24:22 Going private: the Inflexion deal and PE backing34:21 Why private equity isn’t right for every law firmAbout Non-BillableNon-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

Alex Kardos-Nyheim is the founder of SafeSign Technologies and now co-lead of AI research at Thomson Reuters. Alex built a legal-specific large language model while still a trainee at A&O Shearman, ultimately selling the company in 2024. He explains why Safe Sign focused on building the “engine” rather than the interface and how a legal LLM was able to outperform some of the biggest AI labs on legal tasks.A central thread of the conversation is how the competitive landscape in legal AI has shifted. What began as a wave of “wrapper” products around foundation models is now evolving into a deeper contest over models, data and defensibility. Alex argues that the real moat lies not in user interface features, but in training models on high-quality legal data and building robust retrieval systems that reduce hallucinations and improve reasoning.We also explore how Thomson Reuters is thinking about the full stack: combining proprietary legal data, live market intelligence and a legal-trained model into a cohesive platform. Finally, Alex shares what he’s seeing inside law firms. Smaller firms should be using AI as a force multiplier to “punch above their weight”, while larger firms face a strategic imperative to convert their institutional know-how into machine-readable data to power their AI tools. His advice to managing partners is direct: hire data engineers, structure your data and lean into expertise. The Non-Billable Podcast is sponsored by Legora. To find out more about Legora, visit: https://legora.com/ Chapters00:01 Introduction01:20 Building a legal LLM while at A&O03:40 Engine vs wrapper: why Safe Sign focused on the model04:41 Life after the Thomson Reuters acquisition06:24 Inside Thomson Reuters’ “skunk works” AI team08:42 From point solutions to platform wars in legal AI11:49 The perfect stack: models, data and RAG15:07 Why retrieval engines matter more than you think18:33 Data as the moat23:56 Can small data beat big data?27:14 Making legal AI “market aware”31:05 The evolution of Co-Counsel33:57 What law firms are getting right and wrong about AI36:50 “Hire 30 data engineers tomorrow”38:22 Productising law firm know-how43:10 Tips if you started a legal AI company todayAbout Non-BillableNon-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

In this episode, we speak with Simon Levine, former global co-CEO of DLA Piper and now an adviser to Shoosmiths, about leadership, strategy and where Big Law is heading.Simon recounts the move that brought him to DLA Piper in 2005, when he led a 50-person team across to build a global IP, media and technology practice - at the time, one of the largest lateral hires in the UK market. He went on to join the firm’s executive team and was elected managing partner and global co-CEO in 2014.A central theme of the conversation is what it takes to run a truly global law firm. Simon reflects on spending much of his time on the road, and why visibility and regular communication were essential in a partnership of that scale. He explains how town halls, open Q&As and firm-wide vlogs became core to his leadership approach.Looking ahead, Simon shares his view on the current wave of transatlantic mergers, why Europe is being overlooked, and why he believes a gap is opening up in the mid-market - a perspective shaped in part by his current advisory work with Shoosmiths. The Non-Billable Podcast is sponsored by Legora. To find out more about Legora, visit: https://legora.com/ Chapters00:01 Introduction01:20 Journey into Big Law04:25 The move to DLA Piper and building a global practice07:18 What it’s really like to run a global law firm09:38 Why communication mattered more than spreadsheets13:06 Defining DLA Piper’s strategy and market position17:17 Why not every firm can chase top-tier private equity19:06 What DLA Piper was really trying to be21:49 Sector strategy, brand focus and resisting dilution26:50 What’s driving the current merger wave30:48 Why Europe is the missed opportunity for UK firms38:19 M&A, lateral hires and the limits of external capital42:07 How AI will change what law firms sellAbout Non-BillableNon-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

In this episode, we’re joined by Robert Millard, founder of Cambridge Strategy Group and one of the leading thinkers on law firm strategy and mergers. Robert’s route into the legal industry is anything but conventional - from running a national park in Namibia, to advising law firms around the world, to spending time in-house as a business strategist at Linklaters - before completing a PhD on large law firm mergers over the past two decades.A big focus of the conversation is what “strategy” actually means in a law firm context and why it’s so often misunderstood. Robert argues that strategy is about diagnosing and solving a real problem, not producing glossy five-year plans or chasing league table positions. They discuss why rigid strategy cycles struggle in a fast-changing world, how AI is reshaping client expectations, and why firms need to become much better at listening to clients and adapting in real time.Robert then unpacks the findings from his doctoral research into 73 major law firm mergers. He explains how he built a data-driven framework to measure success, cutting through the cliché that “most mergers fail” and why roughly three-quarters of the mergers he studied actually delivered real growth. The discussion also covers what makes transatlantic combinations work, why New York still matters, and the risks of merging with firms in decline.Finally, the episode looks ahead. Robert shares practical advice for firm leaders considering a merger, from spotting red flags in due diligence to avoiding nostalgia for a “golden age” of legal practice. The conversation closes with a clear message: the firms that succeed will be those that stay close to their clients, remain agile, and are willing to rethink how they operate as the market continues to change.The Non-Billable Podcast is sponsored by Legora. To find out more about Legora, visit: https://legora.com/ Chapters00:01 Introduction01:20 From conservation to legal strategy03:09 Why Robert did a PhD on law firm mergers04:00 What strategy really means in a law firm06:10 Why traditional strategy cycles no longer work07:47 Clients, AI and the need for constant adaptation09:44 The problem with league tables and five-year plans14:04 When firms are forced to rethink their strategy19:15 How to measure whether law firm mergers succeed25:15 What makes transatlantic mergers work and fail40:22 What law firm leaders should stop doing nowAbout Non-BillableNon-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

In this episode, we sit down with Ria Karnik, who leads the associate recruitment team in London at Major, Lindsey & Africa, to unpack what’s really happening in the City talent market, and why the associate level has become the key battleground. Ria shares a recruiter’s-eye view of how US firms have reshaped hiring in London, where demand is strongest right now, and why mid-level lawyers are more sought after than ever.We get into which practice areas are driving growth - from private equity, leveraged finance and private credit through to litigation, tax and competition - and how US firms are quietly building out fuller-service London offices. Ria also explains how partner moves are feeding through to associate hiring, and why firms with a clear strategy and specialism are winning the war for talent.The conversation then turns to pay, progression and pressure points. Ria breaks down the reality behind NQ salary headlines, the growing issue of salary bunching at UK firms, and why transparency around pay, bonuses and career paths has become such a differentiator. She also explores how early US firms are now targeting trainees, and what that means for specialisation, training contracts and junior career decisions.Finally, Ria shares practical advice for both lawyers and firms. For associates thinking about a move in 2026, she explains why understanding your motivations, and exploring a few well-chosen options, matters more than chasing a single name. For firms, she sets out what it really takes to attract and retain talent today, from culture and mentoring to clarity on progression and long-term vision.The Non-Billable Podcast is sponsored by Legora. To find out more about Legora, visit: https://legora.com/ Chapters00:01 Introduction01:20 Ria’s legal recruitment experience02:26 Major, Lindsey & Africa and its global reach04:19 Where demand for associate talent is strongest05:50 The practice areas driving hiring in London09:00 Life beyond US firms – opportunities across the City10:23 US firms targeting trainees earlier than ever15:59 Salaries, bonuses and the reality behind the numbers21:12 What associates really want from their careers26:10 How law firms can attract and retain top talent38:29 Ria’s advice for lawyers considering a move in 2026About Non-BillableNon-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

James Hacking and Mike Estill from Kindleworth join the show to unpack one of the more salient shifts in Big Law right now: senior partners leaving large firms to launch specialist practices - and why the market is suddenly making that move feel much more doable.They explain Kindleworth’s model: helping partners with client followings set up boutique or specialist firms “of their design”, then running the day-to-day operational backbone once the doors are open. The conversation digs into some of the best-known projects they’ve been involved in, including Pallas and the rapid Rosenblatt spin-out, and what those launches reveal about how quickly new firms can be stood up when the right pieces are in place.A big theme is friction, and how to remove it. Hacking and Estill argue that better access to capital, dramatically improved tech, and a growing pool of partners who don’t fit neatly inside the strategic priorities of ever-bigger global firms. They talk about conflicts in the broad sense - not just classic conflicts of interest, but conflicts of strategy, pricing and business model - and why that opens space for focused firms built around a portable book of business and a clear vision.The episode also looks ahead: why Burford Capital invested in Kindleworth, what a US expansion could look like, and how technology and outside capital could enable a new breed of “scale specialist” firms. The practical takeaway is simple: if you’ve got the itch to go it alone, don’t be scared of exploring it - because the fastest way to get clarity is to start having the right conversations.To find out more about Legora, visit: https://legora.com/Chapters00:01 Introduction01:20 Kindleworth Origins & Founder Backgrounds02:20 What Kindleworth Does & Who It’s For03:56 High-Profile Launches & the Rosenblatt Rescue05:17 Burford Capital & Funding Law Firm Spin-Outs08:08 Why Kindleworth Is Taking the Model to the US12:11 Why Starting Fresh Beats Fixing Big Law14:13 Which Practice Areas Are Ripe for Breakaways18:18 Advice for Partners Thinking of Leaving26:03 Pricing Pressure, AI & New Firm Economics38:53 The Upside: Freedom, Ownership & Building LegacyAbout Non-BillableNon-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

John Quinn is one of the most influential figures in modern Big Law. In this episode, he reflects on how Quinn Emanuel grew from a four-lawyer spin-out in Los Angeles into the world’s leading litigation-only firm - which is constantly rated as the the “most feared” firm. Quinn explains that the disputes-only model wasn’t fully formed on day one, but became a powerful differentiator once the firm realised that “we do one thing and we think we’re the best at that,” rather than trying to be everything to everybody.A central theme of the conversation is why specialisation - particularly being willing to act against the world’s largest commercial banks - created an “unmet need in the marketplace” that full-service firms couldn’t fill because of conflicts. Quinn also discusses how that focus helped build internal cohesion: “we’re all litigators,” he says, which avoids the fragmentation he sees inside large full-service partnerships.Quinn offers a candid comparison between litigation in the US and the UK, from the power of depositions and jury trials to the cost structures and role of regulators like the DOJ. He also shares his perspective on the evolution of Big Law, including rising concentration at the top end, the erosion of lockstep, the growth of non-equity partnerships, and why he thinks the business of law itself “hasn’t changed much,” despite constant talk of transformation.The episode closes with Quinn’s views on AI, private equity investment in law firms, and what actually makes a great lawyer. Chapters00:01 Introduction00:55 On launching Law Disrupted and staying busy03:38 Founding Quinn Emanuel and the early years05:02 Why Quinn Emanuel became a litigation only firm08:14 Suing the banks and finding an unmet market niche09:40 Opening London before the financial crisis10:07 Building the world’s largest patent litigation practice11:51 US vs UK litigation and the power of depositions16:04 Costs, risk and why US litigation works differently20:52 How Big Law has changed and why the strongest firms win22:23 Why law is a “stupid business” structurally24:26 Lockstep, partner pay and the rise of superstar compensation33:14 Private equity, external capital and law firm ownership35:11 Why AI won’t replace litigators anytime soon40:26 What makes a great lawyer and why judgment matters mostAbout Non-BillableNon-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

Pierson Ferdinand launched in January 2024 in what it says was the largest law firm debut in US history - starting with around 130 partners and growing to more than 270 in under two years. In this episode, co-founders Michael Pierson and Joel Ferdinand explain the model behind what they call an “AI-native,” fully distributed, partner-only law firm.They break down how the structure works: no physical offices, every lawyer signs a partnership agreement, and compensation is decided by a formula-based algorithm that updates in real time. Partners keep a far greater share of their billings than in Big Law, with Michael noting that most lawyers who join “earn 2 to 3x what they were earning” at traditional firms. Pay is completely transparent: every partner can see every other partner’s earnings inside the firm’s internal app.A big part of the model is technology. The firm mandates firm-wide licences for Harvey AI and uses additional tools across the business to automate both back-office processes and junior-level work - something they say they’ve “replaced almost all of” already. AI is now part of standard workflows: summarising due diligence, producing first drafts, organising deal terms and creating client-ready matrices and charts.Michael and Joel also discuss their London expansion - already more than 20 fee-earners and growing - and their recruitment pitch: a chance to escape the traditional hierarchy, avoid massive infrastructure costs, and build a practice with more autonomy and more upside. “Happy lawyers make better lawyers,” Joel says. “We’ve been purpose-built for people who want something different.”Chapters00:01 Introduction01:00 Introducing Pierson Ferdinand & the Founders02:20 How the Firm Launched as the Largest Debut in US History03:37 Inside the Distributed, Partner-Only Model04:29 How Partnership, Compensation & the “Pro Algorithm” Work06:48 Why Remote-First Makes the Economics Work07:22 Firm vs Partner Clients & How Work Is Shared08:40 How Matters Are Staffed Without Associates10:11 Horizontal Integration & Internal Work-Sharing11:16 The Pitch to Clients: Big-Law Quality at One-Third Less13:01 The Firm’s AI Strategy - Harvey & Beyond15:58 Could This Model Work Without AI?17:13 What Lawyers Want: Frustrations With Traditional Big Law18:23 London Launch: Practice Areas & Early Momentum21:14 Competing in London’s Hyper-Competitive Market22:19 The Pitch to London Laterals24:17 Can Partners Earn as Much as at Kirkland or Paul Weiss?27:02 Radical Transparency: Everyone Sees Everyone’s Pay28:02 The Big Catch - Why This Model Isn’t for Everyone30:08 Growth Plans for the Next Five Years31:43 Culture, Community & Why “Happy Lawyers Make Better Lawyers”About Non-BillableNon-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

In this episode, we speak with Simon Leaf - a former Mishcon de Reya partner who has launched Three Points Law, a tech-enabled boutique focused on technology, sport and commercial/IP work alongside fellow former Mishcon lawyer Tom Murray. After 15 years in Big Law, Simon left to build a firm that uses AI from day one and is structured for the kind of fast, high-volume commercial work he handles.Simon explains why the traditional model no longer fits. As his hourly rate rose and teams grew around him, he felt further from clients and constrained by incentives tied to billable hours. At Three Points, he’s leaning into value-driven pricing and using AI to cut out most junior-level work so he and co-founder Tom can stay close to clients and move faster.He shares how the firm is using Legora and other AI tools across the workflow - from business development and fee proposals to standardised contract review processes. The tech isn’t perfect, he says, but in the hands of experienced lawyers it’s powerful enough that he’s “100%” confident it replaces the need for junior hires. The early traction has been strong enough that they’re already recruiting senior lawyers instead.Simon also breaks down the mechanics of starting a modern boutique: partnering with Excello for back-office and regulatory support, avoiding external capital to stay client-focused, and building a culture where he can do high-quality work without the pressures of Big Law. His advice to others thinking of making the leap? If you have the relationships and the appetite to do things differently, “go for it.”Chapters00:01 Introduction01:00 Simon’s Background01:56 Why Three Points Law?03:09 Life at Mishcon & Leading the Sports Group03:46 Inside Premier League Player Contracts06:23 Why Big Law No Longer Fit09:10 The Billable Hour Problem10:58 Going All-In on AI from Day One13:23 How AI Replaces Junior Work16:23 Moving Away from the Billable Hour19:12 Why Human Lawyers Still Matter20:18 Will More Boutiques Break Away?21:58 Three Points’ Vision and Culture23:18 How They Set Up the Firm27:41 Advice for Aspiring Boutique FoundersAbout Non-BillableNon-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

Alongside Harvey, Legora has quickly become a frontrunner in the legal AI platform race, offering lawyers a suite of productivity tools for contract review, drafting, legal research and large-scale document analysis. Its rise has been startlingly fast. Founded just two years ago, Legora hit a $1.8 billion valuation in its October funding round and has signed a wave of major UK firms this year alone.Today on the podcast, we’re joined by Alex Fortescue-Webb, Legora’s head of UK and Ireland and head of legal engineering. Alex began his career as an M&A lawyer at CMS before moving into legal operations and managed services roles at BCG, Axiom, Thomson Reuters and EY.Alex breaks down what Legora actually does: reviewing and comparing documents in seconds, handling heavy diligence exercises, and assisting with drafting directly inside Word. He also talks through the current limits of legal AI - especially the challenge of missing context - and why complex tasks still need to be broken down into smaller steps.The conversation also covers Legora’s new Portal product, which lets firms expose richer, AI-powered work product to clients and offer controlled self-serve tools built on their own IP. Alex argues this shift will make knowledge management even more critical as delivery becomes more productised. Finally, Alex discusses Legora’s rapid momentum with leading firms, the company’s US push and recent funding round, and how he views the competitive landscape. His focus: not beating rivals, but driving real adoption so AI becomes embedded in how lawyers actually work.Chapters00:01 Introduction01:00 Welcome and Alex’s Role at Legora01:13 Inside Legal Engineering: Ex-Lawyers as the Bridge to AI03:20 What Legora Actually Does for Lawyers05:41 SPA vs Term Sheet: A Practical Legora Use Case07:48 Who’s Using Legora Most (And How Usage Varies)09:10 Where Firms See the Biggest Time Savings11:12 The Limits of Legal AI Today: Context and Zero Data Retention13:13 Solving the Context Problem and Future Integrations14:25 Portal: Rethinking Law Firm-Client Collaboration19:01 Productising Know-How and the Future of Knowledge Management22:20 Legora’s Growth Story and Adoption Playbook25:45 Funding, US Expansion, Harvey - And the Legal AI Platform RaceAbout Non-BillableNon-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

In this episode, we sit down with Camilla Wallace, senior partner of Wedlake Bell. A private client specialist who has spent 18 years at the firm, Camilla talks through Wedlake Bell’s evolution from a sub-20 partner outfit to a headcount of more than 350, why it has stayed a single-office City firm, and how it balances its 245-year heritage with a “1780 but contemporary” mindset.Camilla explains how she defines the senior partner role today - part chair, part ambassador, part counsellor - and why that structure works alongside managing partner Martin Arnold. She also discusses the firm’s measured stance on international expansion and external capital, and how culture underpins many of those decisions.A major theme of the conversation is mental health in the legal industry. Camilla shares the data she’s seeing through her work with LawCare, the pressures on junior lawyers, and the initiatives Wedlake Bell has launched, including anonymous learning reviews aimed at building psychological safety across teams.Finally, Camilla turns to the ‘millionaire exodus’ and what’s driving high-net-worth clients out of the UK. She outlines the broader economic impact, her concerns about policy uncertainty, and her own surprisingly simple idea for tax reform.Chapters00:01 Introduction01:10 Camilla’s Background01:46 WedLake Bell's Growth and Market Position04:41 Balancing Heritage and Innovation in Law08:06 The Role of Technology and AI in Law10:58 Growth Plans and Market Positioning12:55 The Senior Partner Role in Modern Law Firms15:46 Challenges in Leading a Modern Law Firm19:29 Mental Health in the Legal Industry24:27 The Changing Expectations of Junior Lawyers27:28 The Impact of Wealth Migration from the UK32:15 Taxation and Its Effects on the Legal SectorAbout Non-BillableNon-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

Private equity is closing in on the legal industry, and few people have a better vantage point than David Morley, former managing and senior partner at Allen & Overy. After steering A&O through the 2008 financial crisis, Morley moved into the investment world, chairing a private equity firm and heading up Europe for one of the world’s biggest pension funds. Earlier this year, he teamed up with fellow A&O alum Wim Dejonghe to launch a consultancy advising law firms and investors on the surge of capital eyeing the profession.In this episode, David explains why investor sentiment toward law firms has flipped “gradually, then suddenly.” He says private equity’s move into legal mirrors what happened in accountancy a decade ago - starting small before rapidly scaling once investors see proven success. “There’s a level of investor interest we’ve never seen before in the legal sector,” he says.We talk about what this means for firms of all sizes - from smaller players under pressure to consolidate, to elite firms exploring capital as a growth tool. Morley breaks down how deals are structured, where money would actually go, and why capital brings more than funding.He also reflects on the limits of the partnership model in funding innovation - and why looming tax and structural changes could accelerate a shift towards more corporate-style models. His message for firm leaders: whether or not you plan to take investment, you need to understand the forces driving it. Chapters00:01 Introduction01:30 Introduction to David 03:06 Navigating the Financial Crisis07:14 Lessons from Crisis Management10:07 The Rise of External Investment in Legal12:50 Changing Perceptions of Legal Investments17:00 Market Dynamics and Future Trends in Legal Investments23:23 The Competitive Landscape of Law Firms24:19 Investment Opportunities in Legal Sector25:25 The Role of Private Equity in Law Firms29:43 Innovative Business Models in Legal Services33:54 Understanding Private Equity Investments37:34 Strategic Use of Capital in Law Firms39:44 Private Equity vs. Traditional Financing42:35 Future Trends in Legal About Non-BillableNon-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

In this episode, Siobhán Lewington, partner at leading legal headhunter Macrae, joins us to unpack what’s driving the lateral partner market in London. A former Allen & Overy and Arthur Cox lawyer, Siobhán has more than two decades advising firms on partner hires and team moves giving her a unique view into how City law has changed.She explains how the market has evolved from the “gentlemen’s agreement” era - when Magic Circle firms avoided poaching from one another - to today’s fiercely competitive landscape dominated by US players. We explore why private capital remains the engine of London’s growth, and what makes a truly competitive platform: from tax and competition support to leverage finance and associate bench strength.Siobhán also breaks down the New York-London axis, the growing wave of transatlantic mergers, and how firms are positioning themselves in the race to join the global elite. She shares why money alone doesn’t move partners, the real purpose behind multi-year guarantees, and how firms can better integrate lateral hires for long-term success.Finally, Siobhán offers advice for partners weighing a move - from identifying push and pull factors to finding a genuine sponsor at any prospective firm. Packed with insight on talent strategy and firm identity, this episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in the current state of the London market.Find out more about Macrae at their website: https://www.macrae.com/Chapters00:01 Introduction01:00 Introduction to Siobhan and Macrae02:05 Transition from Law to Recruitment03:23 Evolution of the London Recruitment Market07:03 Current State of the London Private Equity Market11:00 Concentration Risks in Private Equity13:52 The Changing Landscape of Law Firms16:26 Growth Areas Beyond Private Capital19:48 Litigation Market Dynamics21:53 The New York-London Axis22:15 Mergers and the New York-London Axis28:34 The Mechanics of Partner Moves40:09 Advice for Partners Considering a Move43:28 Strategies for Firms to Attract TalentAbout Non-BillableNon-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

Harvey has become the poster child of the legal AI boom - used by over half of the top 100 US law firms and backed by more than $700 million in funding. But what does the startup actually do for lawyers day to day, and how is it turning hype into genuine impact inside Big Law firms?In this episode, John Haddock, Harvey’s chief business officer and a former Stripe exec, takes us inside the company’s rapid scale-up. He explains how a 50-person team of ex-Big Law lawyers works directly with firms to embed AI into real workflows, turning the platform into what he calls “a port of first call” for legal teams.Haddock also lifts the lid on Harvey’s Advanced Legal Researchers - a team of former Big Law lawyers who benchmark and fine-tune every new model release through what the company calls its Big Law Bench. He shares why data, not hype, is the biggest constraint in AI performance, and how Harvey’s partnership with LexisNexis is helping to close that gap.We also talk about Harvey’s recent investment from European private equity firm EQT, what the company’s expansion into Europe means for the legal market, and why Haddock saw a viral Reddit thread questioning Harvey’s adoption as a positive sign. “It’s proof we’ve crossed into the mainstream,” he says.Chapters00:01 Introduction01:00 Background on John03:30 Understanding Harvey's Product and Customer Engagement06:12 The Role of Chief Business Officer at Harvey09:02 How Harvey Empowers Lawyers12:11 Partnership with LexisNexis 17:54 Fine-Tuning AI Models for Legal 21:38 The Buy vs. Build Debate in Legal Tech24:20 EQT Investment and European Market Expansion26:37 Competition in the Legal AI Landscape28:28 Scaling Operations and Talent Acquisition31:39 Onboarding and Change Management in Legal AI32:41 Contextualising Legal AI for Enhanced Productivity36:12 The Future of Integrated Legal Workspaces38:36 The Reddit Thread and Building Trust in AI42:24 Challenges of Scaling and Hiring in a Growing CompanyAbout Non-BillableNon-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

Few people have had a closer view of the modern City law market than Charlie Geffen. As former senior partner at Ashurst, he helped build one of London’s top private equity practices before moving to Gibson Dunn in 2014, where he became global co-chair of private equity. Today, he splits his time between chairing the taskforce getting the UK ready for T+1 settlement of financial trades, a senior position at the University of Surrey and occasionally weighing in on the big debates shaping the profession - earlier this year, he sparked discussion with a letter to the Financial Times, defending the decision by some firms to strike deals with the Trump administration. In this conversation, Charlie looks back at four decades of transformation in Big Law - from globalisation and specialisation to the rise of US firms that now dominate the global elite. He explains why American firms’ structure, scale and domestic market have given them a lasting advantage, and why, in his words, “the global Magic Circle is entirely American.”We also discuss the major transatlantic mergers reshaping the landscape, including A&O Shearman and Herbert Smith Freehills-Kramer Levin, and what the likes of Ashurst can realistically do to compete. Charlie reflects on his own experience leading Ashurst through its growth years, its failed US merger talks, and how the firm ultimately found its footing through reinvention.Finally, he shares his take on the next phase of disruption: how AI and private equity could drive a wave of consolidation, why law firms will need far fewer people in future, and why, despite it all, he still sees enduring value in the partnership model - and in knowing exactly what your firm is, and what it isn’t trying to be.Chapters00:01 Introduction01:30 Evolution of the Legal Market06:45 Comparative Analysis of US and UK Law Firms09:44 The Rise of US Firms12:27 Current Landscape of UK Law Firms17:26 Strategic Insights for UK Firms19:45 The Rise of Private Equity22:03 Strategic Decisions in Law Firms27:23 Transatlantic Mergers and Their Implications29:45 Big Law Firms Response To Trump Executive Orders37:51 The Future of the Legal Market: AI and ConsolidationAbout Non-BillableNon-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

Hogan Lovells might not be the first name that comes up in conversations about legal AI, but maybe it should. The firm quietly spun up ELTEMATE, a 100-person legal tech subsidiary, to build tools for clients that go beyond hype and deliver real efficiency gains. At the helm is Sebastian Lach, a Hogan Lovells partner who also leads ELTEMATE.In this episode, Sebastian talks about how ELTEMATE started with just three people around a table in 2019 and has since scaled into a global team creating client-facing technology. Funded entirely in-house, it now builds everything from AI-driven investigation tools to domain-specific tools tailored to compliance and litigation.We also dig into Sebastian’s views on legal AI more broadly. He’s sceptical about so-called “Swiss Army knife” platforms and argues that the real value lies in specialist, vertical tools trained on the right data and guided by lawyers who know what good looks like. “Lawyers don’t want 60% answers”, he argues. “They want a tool that gives them the right result at the push of a button.”It’s a conversation about what happens when a Big Law firm takes tech seriously - balancing risk and innovation - and what clients are really asking for when they demand AI.Chapters00:01 Introduction00:50 Sebastian’s Background02:07 Transitioning from Law to Legal Tech04:00 Exploring White Collar Crime Law07:25 The Birth of ELTEMATE10:34 Funding and Business Model of ELTEMATE11:39 ELTEMATE's Growth and Structure13:12 ELTEMATE's Product Suite and Strategy18:23 The Importance of Domain-Specific Solutions20:48 Data as a Core Differentiator24:28 The Future of Legal Tech and Client Needs28:30 The Vision for ELTEMATE31:16 Lessons Learned in Legal Tech Innovation34:48 Concerns About AI in Legal Practice35:51 Skills for the Future Lawyer38:02 The Future of the Billable Hour About Non-BillableNon-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

McDermott has just completed one of the biggest Big Law mergers in recent years, tying up with New York’s Schulte Roth & Zabel to create a $2.8 billion powerhouse sitting just outside the top 10 US firms by revenue. The deal was wrapped up in just three months - record speed by law firm standards - and is already producing results.In this episode, we sit down with Aymen Mahmoud, McDermott’s London managing partner, to get the inside view on how the merger came together, why culture was as important as strategy, and what the combined platform means for clients on both sides of the Atlantic. He explains why he calls it a “marriage of conviction” and why the firm is betting big on private capital as the driver of its next phase of growth.We also dig into the London story: how Schulte’s top-tier funds practice changes McDermott’s position in the market, the firm’s plans for a new Mayfair office in 2028, and the ambition to be on every top client’s speed dial for private capital work. Along the way, Aymen shares candid insights on talent, pay, and how McDermott is trying to do things differently - from matching New York comp in London to giving billable credit for mindfulness.Chapters00:01 Introduction01:15 The McDermott-Schulte Merger07:07 Cultural Integration and Success Metrics12:45 Strategic Growth in London18:42 Talent Acquisition and Retention24:40 Leadership and Personal Growth30:43 Future Vision for McDermottAbout Non-BillableNon-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

Hill Dickinson made headlines earlier this year with one of the boldest law firm marketing moves in recent memory: a multi-million pound deal to put its name on Everton’s new stadium in Liverpool. In this episode, Peter Jackson - the firm’s long-time managing partner and CEO - takes us inside the decision, what it means for brand recognition, and why giving back to the city was part of the rationale.Over nearly two decades leading Hill Dickinson, Jackson steered the firm through both rapid growth and tough choices. He recalls the pivotal moment in 2016 when the insurance practice, once a cornerstone of the business, became a drag on profits - and how the bold decision to sell it to Keoghs reshaped the firm’s future. His mantra: be brave, and get your partners onside.We also explore how Jackson approached culture and values, from rejecting lucrative lateral hires that didn’t fit, to hands-on leadership built around trust and constant communication. For him, sustainable growth always came back to three basics: people, clients and cash.Finally, Jackson shares his take on the wider market: the rise of external capital in law, the challenges and opportunities it brings, and what he thinks firms often get wrong about private equity investment.Chapters 00:01 Introduction01:30 Peter’s Background and Shipping Law04:13 The World of Superyachts and Monaco Expansion06:16 Hill Dickinson in the 1980s: From Liverpool Roots to London Growth09:03 Leadership Challenges and the Keoghs Transaction12:08 Strategy, Profitability and the Post-2016 Pivot14:32 Culture and Values: Building a Cohesive Firm16:09 The Changing Role of Managing Partner19:06 Hands-On Leadership and Partner Communication21:18 Talent, Lateral Hires and Protecting Culture23:18 Defining Star Partners and Building Teams25:28 The Everton Stadium Deal: Bold Marketing in Law30:23 Brand Recognition, Recruitment and Giving Back to Liverpool35:05 External Capital in Law: Opportunities and Risks43:12 Leadership Lessons: People, Clients, CashAbout Non-BillableNon-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

What role do the Big Four really play in the legal market, and how different are they from traditional firms? In this episode, we sit down with Stuart Bedford, global head of legal at KPMG, to get a first-hand view of how one of the world’s largest professional services organisations is approaching the delivery of legal services.Stuart reflects on his own career journey, qualifying at Linklaters, building one of the City’s leading corporate practices, and eventually stepping into leadership at KPMG. He explains how his experience across multiple disciplines and jurisdictions shaped his perspective on what clients truly need from their lawyers.We dig into what sets KPMG Law apart - why they’re not chasing the mega M&A deals that grab headlines, but instead focusing on areas where law, technology, and multidisciplinary teams intersect. From entity management and post-merger integration, to regulatory compliance and legal managed services at scale, Stuart outlines a model that looks very different to Big Law.Finally, Stuart discusses KPMG’s expansion into the US via an Arizona ABS licence, the firm’s Legal Reimagined programme, and the opportunities created by technology, data and global delivery. If you’ve ever wondered how a Big Four legal arm competes without playing the traditional law firm game, this conversation offers a look inside.Chapters 00:01 Introduction01:15 Introduction & Stuart’s Early Career Path03:18 Changing Specialisation in Law Firms05:35 Why Stuart Moved to KPMG08:32 Rethinking the Big Four’s Legal Offering13:14 Post-Merger Integration & Entity Management16:38 Technology, Data & Legal Reimagined21:17 Delivering Managed Legal Services at Scale25:39 Talent, Culture & Multidisciplinary Teams29:18 Embedding Legal Within the Wider KPMG Business31:40 Have the Big Four’s Legal Dreams Materialised?33:31 US Expansion & the Arizona ABS Licence38:02 Looking Ahead: The Future of KPMG LawAbout Non-BillableNon-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

Julian Taylor is senior partner at Simmons & Simmons and one of the City’s most highly regarded employment lawyers. He’s spent over 25 years at the firm and has had a front-row seat to the transformation of the legal profession. In this episode, he shares candid views on the forces reshaping the industry, from the rise of AI to the battle for the best talent.Julian explains how Simmons is embedding AI into its work - from in-house tools like “Percy” to partnerships with legal tech providers - and why firms that fail to adapt could struggle to survive. He also talks about how AI is changing pricing models, client expectations, and the types of work law firms can take on.Julian calls newly qualified lawyer pay in some parts of the market “crazy”, warns about the talent market distortions it creates, and explains why Simmons takes a different approach to competing for junior lawyers. He also reflects on the impact of US firms in London and how their intense profitability targets are reshaping the market.We finish with a discussion on culture and flexibility - including the unique part-time arrangement Julian has maintained for nearly two decades - and why he believes adaptability and openness to change are now non-negotiable for any lawyer building a long-term career.Chapters 00:01 Introduction01:15 Julian’s Background and Career03:21 Simmons' Financial Performance and Sector Focus06:33 The Role of AI in Law11:15 Pricing and Client Expectations in the Age of AI15:10 Building vs. Buying Legal Tech Solutions19:13 The Future of AI in the Legal Profession24:58 Training the Next Generation of Lawyers28:37 Attracting and Retaining Talent in a Changing Landscape32:39 Flexible Work Arrangements and Work-Life Balance37:45 ‘Crazy’ NQ Pay And The Impact of US Firms on the Legal Market43:05 Looking Ahead: Goals for the FutureAbout Non-BillableNon-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

Private equity and other forms of external capital are moving into the legal sector - a shift that is very likely to reshape law firm strategy. In this episode, we speak with Travis Lenkner, chief development officer at Burford Capital, the world’s largest provider of legal finance, about why investors are increasingly eyeing law firms and what that means for the market.Travis shares his unique perspective, having worked as a litigator at Gibson Dunn, served as senior counsel at Boeing, co-founded litigation funder Gerchen Keller Capital (later acquired by Burford), and launched his own law firm before rejoining Burford in 2024. Now focused on exploring potential equity investments in law firms, Travis explains the forces driving investor interest - from the UK’s long-standing ABS regime to growing recognition of law as a professional services market ripe for consolidation and technology-led transformation.We discuss the different ends of the market attracting attention, from private equity-backed regional roll-ups to strategic growth capital for top-tier global firms. Travis explains why Burford prefers minority stakes, the kinds of structures that make sense for law firms wary of losing control, and how outside capital can fund strategic hires, technology investment and geographic expansion. He also tackles the challenges of the traditional partnership model and the cultural shifts required to align incentives with long-term growth.Finally, Travis offers insights on the evolving US market - where regulatory constraints mean law firm investment often looks different - and why he expects both markets to develop rapidly in the next five years. Chapters 00:45 Introduction to Travis And Career Journey02:31 Understanding Burford Capital's Role in Legal Finance04:50 The Financial Model Behind Litigation Funding05:46 The Rise of External Capital in Law Firms06:12 Investment Strategies for Law Firms09:13 The Future of Law Firms in a Competitive Market13:46 The Evolving Landscape of Law Firm Investments17:28 Navigating Risks in Law Firm Dynamics19:20 Understanding Investor Exit Strategies24:14 Burford's Unique Position in Legal Investments25:26 Targeting Growth in Boutique Law Firms29:35 The Future of the US Legal Market34:24 Burford's Portfolio in Five YearsAbout Non-BillableNon-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

Ross McNairn is the founder and CEO of Wordsmith, one of the fastest-growing legal AI startups in Europe. In this episode, Ross shares how Wordsmith is rethinking the in-house legal function - not just with automation, but with a new model for how legal teams can triage and respond to the rest of the business using AI agents.We talk through the challenges of in-house legal teams, why Wordsmith is laser-focused on corporate legal rather than law firms, and how AI assistants are shifting legal from being perceived as a blocker to a true business enabler. Ross also explains how their customers - including companies like Trustpilot - are using the platform to improve responsiveness and efficiency across functions.Ross opens up about raising $25 million from Index Ventures, how Wordsmith became the fastest Scottish company to hit a $100 million valuation, and why they’ve been disciplined about staying lean, product-led, and focused on usage over hype. He also shares his thoughts on legal AI funding trends, the law firm vs in-house tech split, and the future of generalist vs vertical solutions in the space.Whether you’re a GC thinking about legal AI adoption, a lawyer eyeing a career move into tech, or just curious about how legal is changing from the inside, this is a conversation with a founder building at the forefront of the industry.Chapters 00:45 From Law to Software00:53 The Role of AI in Legal Workflows02:11 Introducing Wordsmith05:08 AI Agents: Enhancing Legal Productivity08:08 Customer Success Stories: Real-World Impact of Wordsmith10:57 Sales Strategy: Building Trust in Legal Tech13:55 Funding and Future Plans: Scaling Wordsmith16:30 Building a Lean Company17:27 Hiring for Legal Intelligence19:06 Motivations For People Joining Wordsmith20:50 Competitors in the Legal Tech Space21:17 Wordsmith's Suite of Tools22:16 Future of Legal Tech Solutions23:38 Impact of Recent Partnerships in Legal Tech26:02 Data Needs for In-House Legal Teams28:00 Investment Boom in Legal Tech29:27 Wordsmith's Strategy for Success32:31 Trends in Legal Tech33:25 Hiring Challenges at Wordsmith34:01 Vision for Wordsmith in 2030About Non-BillableNon-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

In this episode, we’re joined by Adil Taha, a former investment banker, private equity executive and one of the most experienced PE figures operating in the UK legal sector today. Adil has led or been involved in multiple private equity transactions across professional services, including the turnaround of several law firms and the recent high-profile rescue of Rosenblatt out of failing listed group RBG Holdings.We dive into the mechanics of private equity in law - how deals are structured, what PE firms are really looking for, and why so many are focused on buy-and-build strategies in the regional market. Adil gives a candid assessment of what’s working, what isn’t, and why we’ve yet to see a successful PE exit in UK legal.He also unpacks the challenges of law firm listings, the hidden risks of the full-service model, and why relationship-driven businesses don’t always fit neatly into financial engineering. Finally, we talk about the opportunity Adil sees at the top end of the market: building a lean, high-performance boutique from scratch. For investors, firm leaders, and ambitious lawyers alike, this is an inside look at how private capital is reshaping the business of law.Chapters00:45 Adil’s Background and First Law Firm Rescue02:15 The Rosenblatt Rescue03:51 The Rise of PE in Legal Post-COVID06:27 Where PE is Investing Today09:09 Exit Challenges and Lack of Trade Sales11:45 Why Law Firm IPOs Don’t Work14:39 The Culture Clash Between Law and Public Markets16:08 Trade Sales vs PE: Who’s Buying?19:03 Why MBOs May Be the Only Exit Path21:21 Could PE Ever Buy a Top 30 Firm?23:09 Lessons from DWF and Who’s Vulnerable25:39 Exit Options for Larger Firms27:39 How PE Transactions Work in Practice30:39 How Deals Are Structured: Day One, Rollovers, Earn-Outs34:45 The Case for Building a Super Boutique from Scratch37:57 The Super Boutique Vision and TimingAbout Non-BillableNon-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

In this episode, we’re joined by Ed Parker, managing director at Fides Search and one of the most trusted headhunters in the City legal market. With nearly two decades of experience advising on partner and team moves, Ed brings a nuanced, data-driven perspective on how top firms are growing, and what that means for lawyers navigating their careers.We explore the structural shifts happening across the partner talent market, from the aggressive expansion of US firms in London to the growing importance of team moves and due diligence in lateral hiring. Ed explains why some firms are placing massive bets on high-performing partners, how they price those hires, and what really determines whether a client book will travel.For ambitious associates, this episode is packed with insight. Ed shares honest advice on timing your move, the risks of chasing quick promotions, and how to position yourself for long-term success - whether that’s through internal promotion or switching platforms. He also unpacks the rise of non-equity partnerships and what clients really care about when it comes to partner titles.Finally, we touch on where the market is headed in the second half the year, from fast-moving jurisdictions like Saudi and Luxembourg to the enduring pull of London as a legal hub. If you're interested in the economics, strategy, and personal dynamics behind law firm hiring, this is one not to miss.Chapters00:45 Introduction & About Fides Search03:45 What Headhunting Actually Involves07:15 Building a Practice from Scratch10:15 The State of the Partner Market in 202514:15 UK Firms: Adapting or Falling Behind?17:30 Team Moves vs. Individual Lateral Hires21:15 The Economics of Big Hires25:45 Is This an Existential Threat to UK Firms?30:15 The Rise of Non-Equity Partners35:15 Advice for Ambitious Associates43:45 Market Outlook for H2 202547:45 Connect with Ed & Fides SearchAbout Non-BillableNon-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

In this episode, we sit down with Richard East, the founding partner of Quinn Emanuel’s London office - the litigation powerhouse that has gone from a 2008 startup to one of the UK’s most profitable disputes firms, with revenues topping £220 million last year. Richard shares how he built the practice from scratch during the height of the financial crisis.We discuss Quinn Emanuel’s distinctive model: no corporate teams, no panels, no conflicts - and no apologies about taking on the banks. Richard explains why that singular focus has been so powerful, and how the firm’s “door-to-door” approach to marketing - cold-calling and in-person meetings - helped them land early clients that fuelled their growth.Richard also opens up about recruiting and compensation, including why Quinn refuses to follow the Cravath scale, why they pay comfortably above Magic Circle firms, and why entrepreneurial mindset is non-negotiable for new partners. He describes a culture that rewards independence and drive - and expects associates to own cases, not just take instructions.We wrap up with Richard’s thoughts on competition, the evolution of the Magic Circle, and what comes next. He shares why he sees massive potential in using AI to stay ahead, why he isn’t afraid of giant mergers, and why after 17 years he still feels like there’s much more to build.Chapters00:40 Launching Quinn Emanuel London in 200804:00 Building a Litigation-Only Practice from Scratch07:20 Marketing that Actually Works: Cold-Calling and Door-to-Door Meetings11:00 Winning Early Clients During the Financial Crisis14:40 How the Firm Thinks About Talent and Compensation20:00 Culture, Independence, and Entrepreneurial DNA24:30 Perspectives on the Magic Circle and Big Law Competitors29:30 The Role of AI and the Future of Litigation33:40 Leadership Lessons from 17 Years at the Helm36:30 Ambition for the Next ChapterAbout Non-BillableNon-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

In this episode, we speak with Jonathan Keen, head of international legal at Figma - one of the fastest-growing SaaS companies in the world. Jonny leads legal across EMEA, APAC, and Japan, supporting the business through constant product innovation, geographic expansion and a rapidly evolving regulatory landscape.He shares what it’s really like to be the legal lead at a hypergrowth company, from negotiating major enterprise SaaS deals to navigating complex EU tech regulation. Jonny gives a behind-the-scenes view of how his team supports global scale, and what he looks for in the external law firms Figma relies on.We also dive into legal tech and AI, and why Jonny cares more about lawyers who understand tech than what tools they use. He shares his view on how AI is impacting in-house teams, and what traits set great in-house lawyers apart.Chapters00:40 Jonny’s role at Figma02:00 What legal looks like inside a rocketship04:00 A typical day (if one exists)06:30 Enterprise SaaS negotiations: fast and slow lanes08:40 How legal supports the business without breaking it10:00 Working with law firms: what matters12:30 AI and legal tech at Figma15:00 The EU regulatory wave18:00 The compliance burden for mid-market companies20:00 In-house vs private practice: what AI disrupts23:00 What he looks for in new hires25:00 Judgement, humility and curiosity27:00 Advice for lawyers considering a move in-house29:30 The future: what’s next for JonnyAbout Non-BillableNon-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

In this episode, we sit down with Richard Mabey, the co-founder and CEO of Juro. A former Freshfields lawyer, Richard left private practice in 2013 to pursue an MBA and later joined LegalZoom, before launching Juro in 2016. Nearly a decade on, the company is now one of Europe’s leading legal tech startups, helping fast-scaling businesses automate their contract processes and manage legal work with a radically different approach.Richard talks candidly about his founder journey - from teaching himself to code in the early days, to building a company that's now helping hundreds of legal teams deploy AI agents directly into tools like Slack and Microsoft Teams. We dig into how Juro thinks differently about contract lifecycle management, why Mabey believes the next generation of legal work will be agent-led, and what it really takes to get lawyers to embrace automation.We also cover why Mabey thinks legal teams are being asked to do more with less, how agentic AI is already substituting junior-level tasks, and why the CLM category may be ripe for consolidation. Whether you're building legal tech, working in-house, or trying to understand what the future of legal work might look like, this episode is full of insight from one of the sector’s most thoughtful founders.Chapters00:30 Introduction: From Freshfields to Founding Juro03:44 Starting Small: Building a Legal Tech Community07:00 What Scale-Up GCs Really Care About10:15 The Lawyer’s Role in an AI-First World13:52 The Impact of Agentic AI on In-House Teams17:05 The Training Problem for Junior Lawyers21:10 The End of the Law Firm Pyramid?24:30 How Juro’s Agents Actually Work27:48 Replacing Low-Value Work with Automation30:33 From Founder Doubts to Product Inflection34:10 Building a Legal Tech Startup in the "Dark Ages"36:45 Fundraising Lessons and Conviction in the Problem39:30 How Juro Differs from Traditional CLMs42:58 Defining the Agentic AI Opportunity44:42 Why Legal Tech Will Consolidate (Eventually)46:35 The Vision for Juro and the Future of Legal WorkAbout Non-BillableNon-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

Ian Bagshaw is a City law private equity partner now heading up the London office of US law firm Perkins Coie which he launched in 2024. A highly experienced corporate lawyer with nearly 30 years in the field, he is recognised for his leadership in the private equity market at both UK and US law firms.Before joining Perkins Coie, he was co-head of private equity at White & Case, where he built one of London’s top private equity practices. Before that, he held senior roles at Linklaters (co-head of private equity) and was also a partner at Clifford Chance.In this conversation, Ian discusses his return to law to lead Perkins Coie's launch in London, emphasising the strategic timing and focus on tech clients and founders. He shares insights on building a startup culture within the firm, the importance of talent experience, and the impact of private capital on the legal industry. Ian outlines his vision for the future of Perkins in Europe, highlighting the need for a differentiated approach in a competitive market.Chapters00:40 Introduction to Perkins Coie and London Launch06:10 Focus on Tech Clients and Founders13:10 Building a Startup Culture in a Law Firm17:50 Training and Development Strategies for Talent19:10 Vision for Perkins Coie in the Next Decade22:20 Private Capital’s Impact on Big Law28:44 Investment Dynamics and the Future of Law Firms34:25 The Changing Landscape of Legal Practice37:20 Advice for Junior LawyersAbout Non-BillableNon-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals, brought to you by a small team of former City lawyers and finance professionals.Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

Shruti Ajitsaria is a partner at A&O Shearman and the head of Fuse, the firm’s legal tech incubator. Since launching Fuse in 2017, Shruti has helped A&O engage with over 60 startups, run dozens of pilots, and turn legal tech from a buzzword into a real driver of value for both lawyers and clients.In this conversation, Shruti shares how she went from credit derivatives lawyer to leading one of the legal industry's most ambitious innovation programmes. She explains how Fuse works behind the scenes, why A&O Shearman was willing to take a risk on her idea, and what separates the legal tech startups that scale from those that stall.We also get into how the merger with Shearman & Sterling is expanding Fuse’s reach, what clients really expect from law firms when it comes to tech, and why true innovation in legal isn’t just about adopting tools, but creating a culture that’s open to change.Whether you’re a founder looking to partner with firms, a lawyer curious about the future of your role, or just someone interested in how a 100-year-old organisation builds like a startup - this conversation is well worth a listen.Chapters00:40 From Credit Derivatives to Legal Tech03:20 How Fuse Was Born06:17 Launching Fuse and Becoming Partner08:15 What Makes a Startup Right for Fuse09:40 Inside the Incubator: How Startups Work with A&O12:00 Definely, StructureFlow & Building Success Stories14:23 The Anatomy of a Great Legal Tech Founder17:50 Fuse’s Impact Inside the Firm20:41 Legal Tech as Strategy22:25 Innovation Starts at the Top26:26 The A&O Shearman Merger and US Expansion28:23 What Clients Expect in 202520:05 Where Legal Tech Disruption Hits First32:18 Bonus Round: Trends, Hype, and Career AdviceAbout Non-BillableNon-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals, brought to you by a small team of former City lawyers and finance professionals.Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

In this episode, we speak with Philip Young - a former City litigation partner, founder of boutique firm Cooke, Young & Keidan, and now co-founder of Garfield AI, the first AI-powered law firm to gain regulatory approval from the Solicitors Regulation Authority (SRA).Young shares the origin story behind Garfield, which began as a personal frustration with how hard it was for small businesses to recover unpaid debts - even when the law was clearly on their side. After retiring from CYK and taking a road trip across America, he encountered the first wave of generative AI tools and quickly saw the opportunity to build something game-changing: an intelligent assistant capable of running an entire small claims case, from letter before action to trial bundle.We go deep on how Garfield works, the SRA’s lengthy but supportive approval process, and what it means for the legal industry that a product like this now exists. Young also explains why concerns about overwhelming the small claims courts are misplaced, how he sees AI improving rather than replacing legal work, and why he remains cautious about VC money despite a flurry of inbound interest.With candid insights on access to justice, the role of human oversight, and how legal services might be delivered in the next decade, this is a conversation about a whole new category of legal services as much as it is about a new AI tool.Chapters00:45 From Law to Entrepreneurship: Philip Young's Journey11:57 The Birth of Garfield AI: Inspiration and Development24:13 Access to Justice and AI's Role28:21 SRA Approval Process and Regulatory Challenges33:30 Garfield's Vision and Future Products39:45 The Future of Law and AI's Impact on Junior Lawyers43:30 Finding Garfield and the Story Behind the NameAbout Non-BillableNon-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals, brought to you by a small team of former City lawyers and finance professionals.Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

Kerry Westland leads one of the most ambitious innovation functions of any major law firm - a 70-person team at Addleshaw Goddard dedicated to transforming how legal services are delivered (with and without tech).In this episode, Kerry shares her journey from paralegal to head of innovation, and how AG has built out a tech strategy that blends vendor tools with homegrown solutions - including AGPT, the firm’s in-house AI assistant that’s now used across the business.We talk through the evolution of AG’s legal tech stack, how the firm approaches ROI, the rise of GenAI, and the practical challenges of implementing new tools in a legacy profession. Kerry also reflects on what the future of the law firm might look like - and why she doesn’t believe in the “end of the people pyramid.”From document automation to internal product development, from pricing models to practice group engagement, this is a look at how one of the UK’s top firms is operationalising innovation at scale.Chapters 00:35 The Evolution of Legal Innovation03:21 Defining Innovation in Law Firms06:39 Day-to-Day Responsibilities of an Innovation Leader09:26 Balancing Technology and Process in Legal Work12:43 Addleshaw Goddard's Tech Stack Overview15:30 Managing Technology Demands Across Practice Areas18:33 Impact of Internal Tools on Legal Work21:31 Adoption and Use Cases of AGPT24:26 Cost Considerations in Legal Technology27:19 Evaluating ROI on Legal Technology30:17 Impact on Billable Hour Model32:55 Productising Legal Technology35:04 Disruption from AI in Legal Services38:53 The Future of Junior Lawyers40:38 Envisioning the Law Firm of 203544:11 Exciting Innovations in Legal Tech48:46 Career Advice for Junior Lawyers50:08 Overcoming Risk to Foster Innovation51:32 Influential Reads in Legal ThinkingAbout Non-BillableNon-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals, brought to you by a small team of former City lawyers and finance professionals.Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

In this episode, we sit down with Peter Limbert, general counsel at Fulham Football Club, to explore what it really means to be the top lawyer at a Premier League football club. From leading transfer negotiations to protecting the club's brand and navigating ever-evolving regulations, Peter shares a rare look into one of the most complex in-house legal roles in the sports industry.Peter discusses the intricacies of player transfers - including how deals are structured, what can go wrong, and why payment provisions and sell-on clauses are among the most hotly contested parts of any agreement. He also breaks down the legal considerations behind shirt sponsorships, brand partnerships, and stadium development, as well as how Fulham enforces its intellectual property rights around the globe.We also dive into the personal side of the job: how Peter transitioned from aspiring professional footballer to City litigator to Fulham’s first GC, and why he believes staying calm under pressure is the most underrated skill in sports law. He opens up about the realities of working in a highly competitive, emotionally charged environment - where results on the pitch can shape the legal department's week.Whether you're an in-house lawyer, a sports law enthusiast, or just curious how Premier League clubs really operate behind the scenes, this is an unmissable conversation with someone at the heart of it all.Chapters00:40 From Football to Law: Peter's Journey05:09 Transitioning to Fulham FC: The In-House Experience08:13 The Role of Legal in Football: A Day in the Life11:45 Navigating Legal Challenges in Premier League Football16:27 Broadcasting Rights and Sponsorship: Revenue Streams26:21 Understanding Player Transfers: The Legal Process29:31 Jurisdiction and Legal Framework in Football Transfers31:41 Mitigating Risks in Transfer Agreements34:00 Funding and Financial Structures of Transfers35:52 Challenges in Negotiating Transfer Agreements38:03 The Role and Power of Agents in Transfers39:38 Understanding Transfer Deadline Dynamics44:14 The Evolving Landscape of Sports Law46:31 The Premier League: A Thriving Product48:37 Qualities of a Successful In-House Lawyer49:46 Advice for Aspiring Sports Lawyers51:35 Key Contract Clauses in Sports Law52:32 The Importance of Pragmatism in Sports Law54:41 Recommended Reading for Sports LawyersAbout Non-BillableNon-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals, brought to you by a small team of former City lawyers and finance professionals.Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk/

In this conversation, we speak with Tom Goodhead, managing partner of Pogust Goodhead, one of the UK's fastest-growing litigation firms.Tom shares the extraordinary story behind the firm’s rise - from his early days as a junior barrister handling slip-and-trip cases in Tesco to leading the largest class action in British legal history against mining giant BHP. Speaking from Rio de Janeiro, Tom describes how a chance meeting with a Brazilian lawyer fighting for 6,000 fishermen turned into a sprawling international legal battle, ultimately securing a $550 million litigation funding deal with US hedge fund Gramercy.He explains how Pogust Goodhead built the infrastructure to service tens of thousands of claimants across continents, why managing mass litigation is more like running a political campaign than a law firm, and how his team has gone head-to-head with a roster of elite firms including Slaughter and May, White & Case and Herbert Smith Freehills.Tom also discusses how he thinks about litigation funding conflicts, what it takes to maintain trust with funders, and how Pogust Goodhead is using an innovative synthetic equity scheme to incentivise its lawyers to bet on the firm’s success. He shares his broader vision for the future: building a global claimant-side powerhouse capable of challenging corporate giants the way Kirkland & Ellis or Quinn Emanuel have dominated commercial defence work.Chapters 00:50 Introduction to the BHP Case02:08 The Journey to the Case06:01 Client Management in Class Actions10:16 The Scale of the Environmental Disaster14:00 Commercial Stakes and Legal Strategies18:01 Litigation Funding and Financial Strategies23:59 Challenges and Restructuring Decisions30:03 Transformative Legal Battles: The BHP Case34:25 Navigating Conflicts with Litigation Funders41:16 Impact of PACCAR on the Funding Industry47:05 Attracting and Retaining Legal Talent56:08 Vision for the Future of Pogust GoodheadAbout Non-BillableNon-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals, brought to you by a small team of former City lawyers and finance professionals.Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk/

In this episode, we speak with Nnamdi Emelifeonwu, a former Freshfields associate and now co-founder of Definely - one of the UK’s most exciting legal tech companies. Nnamdi traces his journey building a legal career at a Magic Circle firm and ultimately leaving it all behind to solve a problem he first encountered while working alongside his visually impaired colleague Feargus MacDaeid who would become his co-founder.Nnamdi shares the story of how he and Feargus turned an initial prototype into a Microsoft Word plug-in - and eventually a fast-growing platform now used by over 100 corporate customers like BT and JPMorgan, and law firm giants including A&O Shearman, Cravath and Milbank.He discusses the steep learning curve of becoming a founder without a technical background, the early product iterations and how the startup found its first champions at firms like A&O and clients like Deloitte. He also opens up about the realities of startup life: fundraising, cash flow pressure, making hiring mistakes, and learning to let go of perfectionism - particularly as a lawyer-turned-founder.With Definely now backed by $7 million in Series A funding from Octopus Ventures and expanding into the US, Nnamdi reflects on the changing role of lawyers in the age of AI and why the future of the profession depends on embracing legal tech. He also offers candid advice for lawyers considering a move into entrepreneurship, including the importance of resilience, self-belief and maintaining a growth mindset.Chapters00:45 Journey into Law: Early Influences and Aspirations03:29 Training at Freshfields: The Big Law Experience06:23 The Birth of Definely: Identifying a Problem09:29 Building the First Prototype: A Solution for Accessibility12:38 From Idea to Startup: The Entrepreneurial Leap15:26 Securing Initial Funding: The First Angel Investment18:38 Developing the Product: Iteration and Feedback21:35 Gaining Traction: Signing First Customers23:34 Navigating Early Challenges: Building Relationships with Clients26:25 Leveraging Legal Expertise: Understanding User Needs29:57 The Importance of Fundraising in Entrepreneurship34:36 Shifting Mindsets: From Lawyer to Entrepreneur36:55 Evolution of the Product: From Definitions to Comprehensive Solutions39:20 Business Model and Customer Base: Focusing on B2B42:21 Growth Metrics and Future Vision44:18 Navigating Competition in Legal Tech49:02 The Role of AI in the Future of Law52:49 Challenges and Advice for Transitioning to Legal Tech55:40 Learning from Mistakes: Hiring and Industry InsightsAbout Non-BillableNon-Billable is an email newsletter and media company for modern legal professionals, brought to you by a small team of former City lawyers and finance professionals.Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk/

This is a conversation with Jonathan Watmough. Jonathan became managing partner of City firm RPC at just 38. Over the next decade, he repositioned it through the global financial crisis, a shifting legal market and the rise of aggressive lateral hiring. He stepped down in 2016, and has since worn several hats: performance coach, consultant and most recently, non-executive chair of the newly independent litigation specialist Rosenblatt.He recently published ‘How to Thrive in a Commercial Law Firm’, a book gaining traction among mid-career lawyers and law firm leaders and which is all about helping lawyers make the most of their careers. In this conversation, Jonathan shares his journey from an accidental lawyer to a managing partner at RPC, discussing the challenges and opportunities within the legal profession. He emphasises the importance of differentiation, leadership, and understanding client needs. He also highlights the significance of emotional intelligence and relationship-building in achieving success in law. He provides insights from his book, and offers practical advice for junior lawyers on navigating their careers and finding their fit within the world of commercial law.Chapters00:40 Introduction to Jonathan 03:42 The Accidental Lawyer06:31 Navigating the Legal Landscape09:29 Opportunities in Crisis12:35 Leadership Lessons from RPC15:37 Role at Rosenblatt and Lessons for Listed Firms18:47 The Future of Law Firms21:38 Insights from 'How to Thrive in a Commercial Law Firm'32:53 The Importance of Commercial Awareness in Law40:12 Transitioning from Lawyer to Business Person47:22 Work-Life Balance in Legal Careers55:17 Future Client Needs and Career AdviceAbout Non-BillableNon-Billable is an email newsletter and media company for modern legal professionals, brought to you by a small team of former City lawyers and finance professionals.Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk/

Today, we speak with Jack Shepherd. Jack started out as a restructuring lawyer at Freshfields before moving into legal tech via the firm’s in-house innovation team. He now works at iManage - the US-based legal tech company behind the document management system used by most major law firms.Jack is a well-known voice in the legal tech space and a regular speaker at industry conferences. He often takes a refreshingly contrarian view on AI - not for the sake of it, but because, having been a practising lawyer, he actually understands how lawyers work day-to-day.In this conversation, Jack shares insights on the evolving landscape of legal AI and technology. He discusses his transition from practising law to working in legal tech, emphasising the importance of understanding the pain points of lawyers and how technology can address these issues. Jack critiques the current hype around AI, advocating for a more practical approach that focuses on enhancing the legal profession rather than replacing it. He also highlights the significance of project management skills in law, the ROI of legal AI tools and offers advice for lawyers looking to transition into legal tech. The discussion ends with thoughts on future-proofing legal careers and the traits of successful junior lawyers.Chapters00:50 From Lawyer to Legal Tech 03:33 Understanding Legal AI: Current Landscape06:20 The Role of AI in Legal Work09:25 AI's Impact on Junior Lawyers12:19 Identifying Pain Points in Legal Practice15:25 The Future of Law Firms and SaaS18:40 iManage: Revolutionising Document Management27:46 Cultural Challenges in Legal Tech Adoption28:27 Understanding ROI in Legal AI Tools31:18 Strategic Technology Procurement in Law Firms34:41 The Role of AI in Law Firm Marketing36:38 Innovative Legal AI Tools to Watch40:19 Future-Proofing Legal Careers40:43 Advice for Lawyers Transitioning to Legal Tech44:08 Traits of Successful Lawyers49:25 Recommended Reads for Legal ProfessionalsAbout Non-BillableNon-Billable is an email newsletter and media company for modern legal professionals, brought to you by a small team of former City lawyers and finance professionals.Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk/

This is our conversation with Richard Martin, a former partner at law firms including Jones Day and Speechly Bircham, who, after experiencing severe burnout and a mental health crisis while he was at the peak of his powers, has dedicated his career to improving mental well-being in the legal industry.Now leading the Mindful Business Charter (MBC), Richard advocates for healthier working practices in law firms and corporate environments.Richard shares his story, we discuss the state of mental health in the legal industry, which firms are doing good work to address the issue, some advice for lawyers feeling like they’re nearing burnout and how the Mindful Business Charter is tackling the issueChapters00:40 Introduction to Richard and His Journey03:43 The Impact of Stress and Mental Health in Law06:10 Personal Experience with Mental Health Challenges09:10 Transitioning to Mental Health Advocacy12:10 Understanding the Legal Profession's Mental Health Landscape15:15 The Role of Personality Traits in Lawyer Burnout18:05 Current State of Mental Health Awareness in Law Firms21:20 The Mindful Business Charter Explained24:10 Challenges in Implementing Mental Health Initiatives27:10 The Future of Mental Health in the Legal Profession29:20 Understanding Client Expectations and Lawyer Responsiveness34:10 The Role of Well-Being in Legal Practice38:42 Balancing High Performance and Employee Well-Being39:50 Navigating Burnout and Career Satisfaction45:12 Advice for Junior Lawyers and Career OwnershipAbout Non-BillableNon-Billable is an email newsletter and media company for modern legal professionals, brought to you by a small team of former City lawyers and finance professionals.Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk/

In this episode, we talk with Tara Waters. Tara is a leading voice in legal tech and a lawyer with more than 15 years’ experience at City firms including A&O, Simmons and Ashurst where she was a partner and chief digital officer - during which time she successfully rolled out AI tool Harvey to all of the firm’s 4,000+ lawyers and business services staff around the world.Tara shares her unique journey from technology to law, highlighting her experiences in legal tech and innovation. She discusses the evolution of legal services, the impact of generative AI, how law firms should assess its ROI and her favourite AI tools on the market.Tara emphasises the importance of adapting to new technologies, the need for investment in learning and development,and the traits that distinguish great lawyers. She also provides insights into the future of the billable hour model.Chapters00:30 Introduction to Tara and Her Journey03:034 Transition from Technology to Law06:20 Building a Diverse Legal Practice09:33 Innovation in Legal Services at Ashurst12:33 Client-Driven Changes in Legal Tech14:55 The Evolution of Legal Tech and AI18:11 Generative AI's Impact on Legal Work21:05 The Role of AI Assistants in Legal Practice23:50 Harvey: A Case Study in Legal AI Implementation27:08 Internal Adoption of AI Tools at Ashurst30:40 Elevating Voices: The Importance of User Stories30:58 Gaining Partner Buy-In for Technology Investments33:20 Measuring ROI: Beyond Cost Savings36:02 The Evolving Role of Lawyers in the Age of AI39:36 Rethinking the Billable Hour Model43:24 Legal AI Tools: Preferences and Industry Trends48:02 Leading Firms in Legal Tech Innovation49:31 Career Advice: Confidence and Continuous Learning54:48 Investing in Learning and Development56:40 The Value of Knowing When to PivotAbout Non-BillableNon-Billable is an email newsletter and media company for modern legal professionals, brought to you by a small team of former City lawyers and finance professionals.Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk/

In today’s episode, we sit down with Scott Gibson, one of the City’s top headhunters and co-founder of elite partner-level recruitment firm Edwards Gibson. With 25 years in the game, Gibson has seen it all - and according to him, the market is crazier than ever. We discuss what’s driving the hottest law firm partner transfer market in years, why elite firms are paying eye-watering sums, which practice areas are in hottest demand and how the rules of partnership are changing. Scott also reveals what law firms are looking for in lateral hires and gives his advice for associates and junior partners looking to make their mark.Chapters00:00 Introduction to Scott and His Career Path02:03 Current State of the City Talent Market06:11 The Impact of US Law Firms on the Market09:59 High-Profile Partner Moves and Their Implications14:07 The Economics Behind Law Firm Investments17:58 What Law Firms Look for in Lateral Hires21:54 Impact on firms outside the Magic Circle 26:13 Ageism and Retirement in Law Firms30:53 The Pension Dilemma in Law Firms32:42 Capital Contributions and Partner Exits36:31 Navigating Guaranteed Compensation38:30 The Role of Headhunters in Law Firm Recruitment46:07 The Partner Hiring Process55:20 Career Advice for Aspiring PartnersAbout Non-BillableNon-Billable is an email newsletter and media company for modern legal professionals, brought to you by a small team of former City lawyers and finance professionals.Visit our website: ⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk/

In this episode, we sit down with Alexander Kardos-Nyheim, a lawyer who remarkably built a legal AI company as a side project during his training contract at A&O. In 2024 - just as he was qualifying - he sold the business to Thomson Reuters for a life-changing sum of money. Alexander shares his inspiring journey from a young advocate fighting against a developer threatening his community to becoming a lawyer and co-founding his legal tech startup, SafeSign Technologies. He discusses the challenges of balancing a training contract at A&O with the startup, the dynamics of the legal market, and the eventual acquisition by Thomson Reuters. Chapters00:00 Introduction to Alex's Journey02:49 The Catalyst for Becoming a Lawyer05:36 Navigating Law School and Early Advocacy08:07 The Appeal of Big Law Firms10:31 The Impact of Rising Salaries in Law13:14 The Shift in the Legal Market Dynamics15:45 Starting a Tech Business During a Training Contract18:22 Building a Legal Tech Startup20:56 Balancing Work and Startup Life22:58 The Challenges of a Dual Career29:30 Navigating Dual Careers: Law and Entrepreneurship31:50 Pivoting to Legal AI: The Birth of a Startup35:18 Building a Legal-Specific AI Model39:21 Funding and Team Dynamics in a Startup42:49 Acquisition Talks: The Thomson Reuters Interest49:52 Life After Acquisition: New Beginnings at Thomson Reuters54:36 Advice for Aspiring Lawyer-EntrepreneursAbout Non-BillableNon-Billable is an email newsletter and media company for modern legal professionals, brought to you by a small team of former City lawyers and finance professionals.Visit our website: https://www.nonbillable.co.uk/