The Outdoor Education Podcast With Rob Carmichael

In this episode of The Outdoor Education Podcast, Rob is joined by Jeannette Stawski, founder of Leading Valiantly and author of The Outdoor Leader, Resilience, Integrity and Adventure. Jeannette brings a rich perspective shaped by guiding, teaching, wilderness medicine, university outdoor programmes, executive coaching, association leadership, and fifteen years as Executive Director of the Association of Outdoor Recreation and Education.Together, Rob and Jeannette explore what it really means to be an outdoor leader, moving beyond technical competence alone to look at judgement, communication, resilience, integrity, vulnerability and service. The conversation looks closely at failure as a necessary part of learning, the difference between purposeful challenge and unnecessary hardship, and why the outdoors gives such immediate feedback on how we lead, listen and work with others.Jeannette also reflects on professionalisation within the outdoor sector, the need for fair pay and stronger recognition of outdoor work, and the role that associations and communities of practice can play in shaping a more confident, connected and purposeful field.This is a thoughtful and energising conversation for outdoor educators, school leaders, programme directors, instructors and anyone interested in how outdoor experiences can help people become more capable, reflective and courageous leaders.Find out more about Jeannette’s work at Leading Valiantly:https://www.leadingvaliantly.com/

What if safety was not just about preventing things from going wrong, but learning more deeply from why things usually go right?In this episode of The Outdoor Education Podcast, Rob is joined by Steve Smith, founder of Experiential Consulting and author of Safety Science for Outdoor and Experiential Education. Together, they explore how outdoor educators, schools and programme leaders can think more clearly about risk, safety, judgement and purposeful challenge.Steve shares how his experiences in outdoor risk management shaped his thinking around beneficial risk, organisational culture and learning in dynamic environments.The conversation moves through risk literacy, the limits of being “paper safe”, the difference between work as imagined and work as done, and the importance of learning from near misses, workarounds and everyday success.This episode is full of thoughtful, practical insight for outdoor educators, school leaders and anyone interested in building a more honest, human and learning-centred approach to safety and risk.Find out more about Steve and Experiential Consulting:https://outdoorrisk.comSteve’s book, Safety Science for Outdoor and Experiential Education, is available here: https://a.co/d/05226cTB

In this episode of The Outdoor Education Podcast, Rob sits down with Calum Wright, primary teacher, outdoor learning specialist, and founder of Fresh Air Teacher, for a thoughtful conversation about student agency, inclusion, and knowing learners well.At the heart of the episode is a key question, when does challenge help a student grow, and when does pushing beyond a comfort zone become unhelpful? Rob and Callum explore how good outdoor practice depends on relationships, trust, and careful observation rather than blanket assumptions.They discuss: why student agency matters in outdoor learning  how to better understand when a learner needs encouragement, adaptation, or space  the impact of outdoor learning for students with neurodiverse needs why inclusion is never automatic, but built through listening and knowing each child well A valuable episode for educators interested in learner-centred, inclusive outdoor practice.

What if nature could help us better understand diversity, belonging, and human relationships?In this episode of the Outdoor Education Podcast, Rob is joined by Dan Kreisberg and Camille Simone Edwards, co-creators of Diversity Education in Nature (DEIN). Together, they explore how the natural world can serve as a powerful lens for teaching equity, empathy, and community.Dan and Camille share how simple outdoor experiences, can open the door to deeper conversations about identity, inclusion, and what it really means to belong. They unpack the idea of “brave spaces” over “safe spaces,” the importance of starting with low-stakes conversations, and why this work is less about quick results and more about planting seeds for long-term change.The conversation also dives into the realities of doing DEI work in outdoor education today, from barriers to access and representation to the importance of authenticity, vulnerability, and facilitation skills.This episode is full of practical insights for educators, facilitators, and anyone interested in using the outdoors as a space for meaningful human connection.

What does real safety leadership look like in outdoor education and why can it sometimes feel like such an isolating role?In this episode of The Outdoor Education Podcast, Rob sits down with Stuart Slay, founder of Slay Risk, a safety leadership and risk advisory practice that works with schools, experiential programs, and outdoor organizations around the world.Stuart shares his journey from climbing gyms, ski patrol, and avalanche forecasting to becoming a leading voice in safety science and systems thinking. Together, Rob and Stuart explore how culture, leadership, communication, and organizational structure shape the safety of outdoor programs and why many of the biggest risks appear long before anyone steps into the field.They also discuss:Why traditional risk assessments often miss the bigger pictureHow culture influences safety in ways many programs overlookWhat systems thinking can teach outdoor educatorsThe growing importance of psychosocial safety and mental health in outdoor programsWhy safety leaders often feel like the “department of no”How risk managers can gain influence inside schools and organizationsThis episode offers valuable insights for outdoor educators, program leaders, and risk managers who want to build safer, healthier, and more resilient learning environments.For more information, you can visit Slay Risk's website  www.slayrisk.com and read the full paper on https://js.sagamorepub.com/index.php/jorel/article/view/12408

In this episode of The Outdoor Education Podcast, Rob Carmichael sits down with Heidi Oxley, Community Engagement and CAS Coordinator at UWC Thailand, to explore what meaningful service really looks like in schools today.With nearly 30 years of experience in international education across the UK, Africa, Asia, and the US, Heidi shares how her journey, from physical education to global citizenship leadership, has shaped her belief that true impact comes from relationships, not checklists.Together, they unpack the shift from “service” to community engagement, challenging traditional models that focus on charity and instead highlighting approaches rooted in reciprocity, humility, and long-term partnerships.Heidi also shares powerful, real-world examples, from local dog shelters to indigenous communities, showing how sustained, student-led engagement can create genuine impact for both students and communities. In this episode, you’ll learn: Why “service learning” can reinforce harmful power dynamics  The difference between helping others and learning with communities  How CAS can move beyond a tick-box exercise  The importance of reflection, systems thinking, and consistency  Practical strategies for building authentic community partnerships  How outdoor education and community engagement intersect Whether you’re an IB educator, CAS coordinator, or outdoor learning practitioner, this conversation offers practical insights and a compelling vision for education that develops empathy, agency, and real-world understanding.

In this episode of The Outdoor Education Podcast, Rob Carmichael speaks with Haena Kim, a global leader in experiential education and a driving force behind WildChina Education and Beyond Classrooms. Haenna shares how her early experiences in education sparked a lifelong passion for immersive learning and how she began designing programs as a teenager.The conversation explores how experiential education operates in a globalized world, the importance of cross-cultural engagement, and how thoughtfully designed field programs can deepen learning outcomes for students. Haenna also discusses the realities of running experiential programs at scale, from safety systems and risk culture to building trust with schools and parents.They also dive into service learning, and why honest engagement with communities, rather than romanticized narratives, is key to meaningful global citizenship programs.Finally, Haenna reflects on the future of experiential learning in an AI-driven world and why embodied, real-world experiences may become more valuable than ever.In this episode, you’ll hear about:How early outdoor experiences can shape lifelong learning journeysDesigning experiential programs that support real academic outcomesBuilding global citizenship through cross-cultural engagementThe difference between service learning and transactional volunteeringManaging safety, risk, and scale in international experiential programsWhy experiential education may be more important in an AI-driven futureIf you care about outdoor education, global learning, and the power of experiences beyond the classroom, this episode offers practical insights and inspiring ideas.

What if real change doesn’t start with massive policies, but with a teaspoon?In this episode, Rob Carmichael sits down with global educator and sustainability leader d'Arcy Lunn, Group Head of Sustainability and Global Citizenship at Education in Motion and founder of Teaspoons of Change.From mountaineering in Kyrgyzstan to working on polio eradication in South Sudan with UNICEF, dArcy’s journey reveals how tiny, intentional actions can ripple outward into systemic impact.Together, Rob and dArcy explore:What global citizenship really means (without defining it) Sustainability vs regenerative practice — and why it’s not a competition How to embed global perspectives in any classroom Leading by example (yes, even running to conferences!) Why optimism is a discipline, not naïvetéThis conversation is an invitation to act, imperfectly, consistently, and collectively.Because sometimes, two drops… are enough to change the world.

In this episode of The Outdoor Education Podcast, Rob Carmichael talks with educator, leadership facilitator, and coach Nick Haywood about why relationships and culture must come before curriculum.Nick shares how his journey from Outdoor Education in Tasmania to international education and leadership work with CHanGe has shaped his belief that trust, connection, and “brave spaces” are the foundation for deep learning and wellbeing. Together we explore practical ways to build culture, balance challenge with psychological safety, and embed routines that help teams and students thrive.If you’re an outdoor educator or leader looking to strengthen group culture, this episode offers simple, human-centred practices you can use now.Connect with Nick Haywood: 🌐 https://www.nickhaywood.com/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/nick-haywood-98071b2b0/

In this episode of The Outdoor Education Podcast, Rob Carmichael is joined by Dr. Pierre Echaubard,  ecologist, educator, and founder of Nature Mind-ED, a Thailand-based organisation blending ecology, mindfulness, and outdoor experiential education.Pierre shares his journey from academic research into community-based conservation, regenerative education, and hands-on outdoor learning. Drawing on his work in southern Thailand, from restoration sites turned into living classrooms to the creation of the Rewild Festival, Pierre explores how education can move beyond sustainability as a buzzword and toward genuinely regenerative practice.Together, Rob and Pierre unpack:The shift from sustainability to regenerationWhy connection must come before conservationWhat it means to learn with natureHow mindfulness deepens ecological learningWhat gives hope in the face of today’s ecological “wicked problems”This conversation is an invitation to rethink education, reconnect with place, and remember that caring for the natural world begins with relationship.

In this episode of The Outdoor Education Podcast, Rob Carmichael speaks with Emma Wilson and Jeff Morey,  educators at UWC Thailand, about creating learning environments where curiosity, care, and connection thrive outdoors.From jungle classrooms and mangrove stewardship to bee boxes, field guides, and family learning, Emma and Jeff share how outdoor learning isn’t an “extra” — it’s simply good learning. They reflect on joy, risk, student agency, collaboration, and how children grow socially and emotionally when given space to explore.This episode is an invitation to rethink what a classroom can be and who learning is really for.Key themes: Outdoor classrooms & inquiry Risk, resilience & reflection Stewardship & student agency Community & generational learning

Episode 8, Rethinking Risk in Outdoor Education with Dr. Clare DallatIn this episode of The Outdoor Education Podcast, Rob Carmichael sits down with Dr. Clare Dallat, Founder and Director of Risk Resolve, to explore how outdoor educators can move beyond blame and build safer, more meaningful learning environments through systems thinking and a strong safety culture.Drawing on more than two decades of experience and a PhD in Human Factors and Accident Prediction, Clare reflects on how growing up in Northern Ireland shaped her belief in the power of outdoor learning to connect people. She also shares how her work across Australia, the United States, and Asia has influenced her thinking, challenging traditional approaches to risk, leadership, and accountability.This conversation is essential listening for outdoor educators, school leaders, risk managers, and anyone responsible for learning beyond the classroom.🔗 Links to Clare’s research and Risk Resolve belowRisk Resolve Website: https://riskresolve.net/Paper mentioned: “The Silence Is Deafening: Exploring the Impacts of Serious Incidents on Practitioners Across the Outdoor and Adventure Programs Work System” https://www.researchgate.net/publication/392742848_The_Silence_Is_Deafening_Exploring_the_Impacts_of_Serious_Incidents_on_Practitioners_Across_the_Outdoor_and_Adventure_Programs_Work_System

In this episode of the Outdoor Education Podcast, Rob Carmichael is joined by Martin Foakes, Chair of the Board for OFFSEAS, a fast-growing community of outdoor educators across Asia.Martin shares how his love for being outdoors started in childhood, and how that passion evolved into a career in schools, expedition leadership, and ultimately regional governance. Together, Rob and Martin explore what good leadership looks like in outdoor education: leading with humility, listening well, and creating a culture where people feel safe enough to share both successes and failures.They also dig into how OFFSEAS has grown from a small roundtable into a major regional forum, the challenge of building sustainable systems beyond a single “passionate champion,” and why teaching risk management (not removing risk) may be one of the most important skills we can give young people.Key ideasLeadership that listens (and doesn’t “boss people around”)Building sustainable outdoor programs that outlast individualsOFFSEAS: growth, community, and collaboration across schools + providersRisk, resilience, and responsibility: “I’ve got you” in the outdoorsWhy belonging matters, and how culture shapes the way we handle adversity

What does it take to build an outdoor culture where everyone belongs — not because they fit in, but because the outdoors makes room for all of us?In this episode, Rob Carmichael sits down with Yuen Li Chan, founder of Nomad Adventure and one of Southeast Asia’s pioneers of outdoor and adventure education. Together, they explore what it means to lead with courage, care, and conviction, even when there’s no roadmap to follow.From learning to climb on the limestone walls of Malaysia to opening the country’s first climbing gym, Yuen Li’s story is one of passion meeting purpose. She shares how fax machines, first ascents, failed assessments, and unexpected mentors shaped her leadership. And she reflects on why the outdoors became her place of belonging as a woman, a queer person, and a young Malaysian forging a new path in an emerging industry.Rob and Yuen Li dive deep into why outdoor learning matters — not because it removes risk, but because it teaches us how to understand it. They talk about building teams that challenge us, creating cultures where care is a skill, and why a child’s smile in a rapid can be as transformational as any summit.Whether you’re an educator, guide, leader, or lifelong adventurer, this conversation is an invitation to step into discomfort, listen deeply, and rediscover the small moments of wonder that keep us human.Key ideas: 🧭 Fearless leadership: making values-driven decisions when no playbook exists 🧗 Belonging in the outdoors: gender, identity, and the “great equalizer.” 🌊 Risk competency vs. risk elimination: why adventure requires responsibility 🤝 Building culture: caring as the foundation of professionalism 🌱 Wonder in the small things: transformation through incremental moments

What happens when we stop seeing nature as “out there” and start recognizing it as part of who we are? In this episode, Rob Carmichael sits down with Kenny Peavy, Outdoor Learning Specialist at Green School Bali, to explore the roots of regenerative education, an approach that connects learners with themselves, with others, and with the living world around them.From childhood days chasing creek water to cycling thousands of kilometers on a bamboo bike, Kenny’s journey is a reminder that education begins by stepping outside. He shares stories from decades in the field, from teaching algebra students how to ride a bike to watching eighth graders teach second graders the “bee waggle dance.”Together, Rob and Kenny unpack what it means to create schools that heal, connect, and regenerate. Whether you’re an educator, parent, or lifelong learner, this conversation is an invitation to rediscover curiosity — one muddy footprint at a time.Key ideas: 🌿 Regenerative education: connection with self, others, and nature 🚲 Learning through play, risk, and persistence 🐝 Teaching empathy through bees and cross-grade collaboration 🏕 Nearby nature and rewilding urban learners 📚 “Every school should have a field guide to its own campus.”

Description:In this episode, Rob Carmichael talks with Canadian educator and podcaster Kevin O’Shea, whose two decades in Asia have been devoted to helping children rediscover their natural curiosity. From cicada-chasing mornings in Japan to monkey-guarding gardens in Malaysia, Kevin shares how small, everyday encounters with nature can transform learning, wellbeing, and wonder.Discover how to start your own school garden, balance curriculum with curiosity, and why being authentic, passionate, and starting small might just be the key to lasting outdoor education.🎧 Topics:Overcoming “nature is dirty” mindsetsSchool gardens and monkey visitorsUnstructured play as real learningStorytelling, podcasting, and advocacyHow to integrate nature into any classroom

In this episode, Rob sits down with maker-educator and sustainability innovator Gus Merckel, whose global journey, from Mexico to Germany to Thailand,has shaped a powerful approach to experiential learning.Together, they explore how hands-on making, reclaimed materials, circular design, and outdoor learning can reconnect students with the real world and spark authentic curiosity.Gus shares stories from the field and how outdoor learning helps students feel the impact of environmental changeWhether you're in design, outdoor ed, sustainability, or simply passionate about learning that matters, this episode will leave you inspired to rethink how young people learn — and what they can create when given the chance.https://www.youtube.com/gusmerckel

Host Rob Carmichael sits down with Dr. Nevin Harper—outdoor educator, therapist, and co-author of Kids These Days—to explore how real growth happens through connection, challenge, and time outside. Neven traces his path from a northern Canadian childhood to wilderness guiding and clinical counseling, and unpacks big ideas from the new book: why risk ≠ hazard, how our modern “safety trap” and over-diagnosis can backfire, and why belonging, mastery, independence, and generosity (the Circle of Courage) are essential for youth development.They also tackle hot topics like cell-phone bans, pandemic aftershocks, and the role of discomfort, play, and nature in building resilient young people. Practical takeaways for teachers, counselors, and parents included—plus simple ways to bring therapeutic, nature-based practices into everyday life.Learn more about Nevin Harper: https://www.nevinharper.com/ and discover his new book https://www.kidsthesedaysbook.com/.

In this episode, Rob speaks with Pete Tupper, founder of Imagine — a network of outdoor learning and adventure companies operating across China, Japan, and Taiwan.From ski slopes to startup offices, Pete shares how Imagine grew from a simple idea into a platform for outdoor education across Asia. Together, we explore the power of imagination in education, what it takes to lead outdoor programs across borders, and what outdoor entrepreneurship looks like.Authentic, reflective, and full of practical insights for educators and entrepreneurs alike. Together, they explore:🌿 Why outdoor education gives young people the space to imagine again🌏 The challenge of adapting programs across different cultures and climates💼 The transition from instructor to entrepreneur — and how to keep your passion alive⚡ Why outdoor educators are “safe from AI” — and why the human connection to nature still mattersIf you believe in learning through challenge, creativity, and connection, this conversation will inspire you to rethink how imagination and action can shape the future of outdoor learning.🎧 Follow and share The Outdoor Education Podcast to help grow the global community of educators and adventurers taking learning outside.Ressources:https://www.imagine-asia.net/https://open.spotify.com/episode/1X3JMHGU2w4QcRfUyIj8gS?si=982e5196c218406e