The Rising Podcast with Melanie Penn

In this powerful, long-anticipated conversation, Melanie welcomes renowned Bible scholar and former bishop N.T. Wright (Tom) to discuss the central truth of the Christian faith: the resurrection. Tom unpacks the radical, and often misunderstood, nature of Christ’s physical resurrection as a “new creation prototype” and explains why the ultimate Christian hope is not simply “going to Heaven,” but for new Heavens and a new earth. Drawing from his extensive work in The Resurrection of the Son of God and Surprised by Hope, Tom’s rigorous, Scripture-first approach directly confronts popular, Plato-influenced understandings of the soul, the afterlife, and the timeline of God’s final work. Thought-Provoking Quotes:“I routinely tell students the Bible never uses the word ‘heaven’ to denote or describe the ultimate goal of Christian existence. It talks about the new heavens and the new earth into which we will be raised. Likewise, the Bible never uses the word ‘soul’ to denote or describe the sort of creatures that we will be in God’s ultimate new creation.” - N.T. Wright“Paul says in Philippians 1: ‘My desire is to depart and be with the Messiah which is far better.’ But that’s not the end of the story, because in the end, Romans 8, the Spirit who raised Jesus from the dead will give new life to our mortal bodies. And Paul emphasizes that happens through the Holy Spirit who’s been given to us. So the Holy Spirit coming to dwell with us to be fused with our human spirit, that provides the continuity, which in older theological traditions has been provided by the Platonic soul. And so part of my mission in life at the moment is to push back hard against that platonic idea.” - N.T. Wright“The Spirit, God Himself, is coming to dwell in the midst of His people. It’s not in a building, it’s in the hearts and lives of His followers.” - N.T. Wright“The whole Bible is very clear. The heavens and the earth are God’s good creation. The Heavens are the Lord’s, the earth is given to the children of men, but ultimately they’re designed to come together.” - N.T. Wright “People have often gone to fantastical schemes which they’ve invented out of little bits and pieces from Daniel, Zechariah, or the book of Revelation, and then you get all the wild and wacky speculations about the so-called end times.” - N.T. Wright“For many people, the end times is what the whole story is all about. But really, that is a radical misunderstanding of the New Testament. And I speak as a ‘simple’ Bible Christian—I’d rather have the Bible than any human traditions.” - N.T. WrightLinks, Products, and Resources Mentioned In This Episode:Surprised By Hope by N.T. Wright The Resurrection of the Son of God by N.T. Wright God’s Homecoming by N.T. Wright Miracles by C.S. LewisThe Rise and Fall of Dispensationalism by Daniel G. Hummel*Watch this interview on the YouTube channel!  *All episode music is by Melanie Penn. Guest’s Links:Admirato’s websiteN.T. Wright’s Facebook N.T. Wright’s InstagramConnect with Melanie:The Rising (Album)WebsiteFacebookInstagramYouTubeSpotify*The Rising Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media. 

In this deeply moving episode of The Rising, Melanie sits down with Bible teacher and author Nancy Guthrie for an honest conversation about grief, resurrection, and hope that doesn’t hurry pain along. Nancy shares the story of losing two children, and how walking through profound sorrow reshaped her faith, her compassion, and her understanding of what it means to truly believe in the resurrection. Together, they explore how hope can feel distant in the midst of loss, and how to love grieving people without trying to fix them. Thought-Provoking Quotes:“When you love someone and you know that they’re going to die… whether or not the resurrection is really true, do I have any real reason to anticipate that I will be reunited with this person that I love so much?” - Nancy Guthrie“My most succinct advice in terms of what to say or not say [to someone who is grieving] is; does it esteem their loss or diminish it? Does it say, ‘This hurts and I don’t want to make light of it.’ That would be to esteem their loss. Or does it diminish it, like, ‘It’s not really that bad?’” - Nancy Guthrie“Your healing begins when you become joined to Jesus by faith so that His resurrection life flows into your life.” - Melanie Penn“For those of us who have lost someone to death, it can feel like the end, or for those who are maybe facing death—because the only experience we’ve ever had is living in these bodies, in this world with what we can see and touch and feel. This is why we need faith. Faith is believing in what we can’t see.” - Nancy Guthrie Links, Products, and Resources Mentioned In This Episode:Holding On to Hope by Nancy GuthrieSaved by Nancy GuthrieThe Message by Eugene PetersonTim Keller’s sermon on resurrection hope*Watch this interview on the YouTube channel!  *All episode music is by Melanie Penn. Guest’s Links:Nancy Guthrie’s Website Nancy Guthrie Facebook Nancy Guthrie InstagramNancy Guthrie XConnect with Melanie:The Rising (Album)WebsiteFacebookInstagramYouTubeSpotify*The Rising Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media. 

Does believing in life after death actually change how you live right now? Dr. Heather Thompson Day, author of What If I’m Wrong?, joins us for a deeply personal conversation about what it means to truly live out faith, especially when life doesn’t go as planned. Heather shares the emotional story of watching her father, a dedicated minister, struggle with Alzheimer’s and financial hardship—a difficult scenario that forced her to question her own ideas of success, failure, and spiritual reward. We dive into the concept of the “Upside-Down Kingdom,” challenging the worldly pursuit of applause and accolades. Heather offers powerful insights on overcoming disappointment, listening for intuition, and why giving away the last thing you have might be the key to receiving everything you need. Thought-Provoking Quotes:“It started a process of about three more years of stepping back and kind of reanalyzing this thing called the Upside-Down Kingdom, where often I truly believe what the earth praises, heaven is not impressed by, and what heaven praises the earth ignores. What does it look like? What if that thing that we think is dead, right, is actually a seed that's been planted from generation to generation? How does that change the way you view your life or your passion?” - Heather Thompson Day“We all want resurrection, none of us want death. And yet death is required for resurrection. And so how does this look in our actual lives as we dream, right, or try to provide for ourselves or go into ministry or sing or do whatever the passion is? Are we willing to suffer for and through that thing in order to be faithful?” - Heather Thompson Day“If you go through the texts of the women at the Resurrection, over and over, they felt, they saw, they touched. Those words are intentional because they are, it's showing you they were, the first witness. They had, and they would, just spend the rest of their time telling people what they had seen and heard.” - Heather Thompson Day“When I’m talking about God to somebody, I don’t tell them what I believe. I tell them what I have seen, what I’ve heard, and what I’ve experienced. I tell them what we call in the church world testimonies, right? And I would say I don’t want to spend my forties talking about my testimonies from my thirties. I want to keep having experiences with God.” - Heather Thompson Day*Watch this interview on the YouTube channel!  *All episode music is by Melanie Penn. Guest’s Links:Heather Thompson Day’s websiteHeather Thompson Day’s FacebookHeather Thompson Day’s InstagramHeather Thompson Day’s YouTubeConnect with Melanie:The Rising (Album)WebsiteFacebookInstagramYouTubeSpotify*The Rising Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media. 

In this episode of The Rising Podcast, Melanie interviews Dr. Joel C. Elowsky, a distinguished theologian known for his work on the Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture. Dr. Elowsky provides a scholarly deep dive into the resurrection narrative, particularly from the Gospel of John. Listeners will gain insights into the historical and theological perspectives of early Church Fathers on the resurrection, including their interpretations of details such as the linens left in the tomb, the appearances of angels, and Jesus’ interactions with Mary Magdalene and Thomas. This episode is perfect for those seeking a deeper understanding of the resurrection story, yet still allowing for the “wonder” of the mysteries contained within. Thought-Provoking Quotes:“It’s interesting that Christ’s side is pierced. They didn’t pierce His heart. The fathers made a big deal about this because they go back to Genesis and they said, ‘How did God bring Eve into being? Well, He brought her into being from the side of Adam.’ And so they say just as Eve was the birth of the human race, so when Christ’s side is pierced, it’s the birth of a church, because they’re out of his side, of water and blood.” - Dr. Joel C. Elowsky“You know, this is one of the things I like to teach evangelicals about is the fact that the sacraments were actually pretty important in the life of the church. They weren’t kind of add-ons. They were God’s delivery system of His means of grace, His forgiveness. That’s one of the things you learn from the church that way, in the early ages. - Dr. Joel C. Elowsky“I kind of like that the gospel writers leave things out because I think in some ways it’s giving us an opportunity, with our sacred imagination, to just wonder, to meditate on some things and wonder. Thomas doubted, and maybe Mary didn’t. Are there allowances for people where they are? Does God allow different things at different moments, depending on what we need to overcome our doubts?” - Melanie Penn“I see John emphasizing the fact that God has an important place for women in the life of the church, to give them the honor of being the first witnesses. That's pretty amazing to me.” - Dr. Joel C. ElowskyLinks, Products, and Resources Mentioned In This Episode:Drew UniversityConcordia UniversityCenter for Early African Christianity (CEAC)Ancient Christian Commentary on ScriptureEaster Enigma by John Wenham Ancient Christian Doctrine SeriesOn the Incarnation by Saint Athanasius Popular Patristics Series by St. Vladimir’s PressThomas C. Oden Institute for Classical Christian StudiesSystematic Theology by Thomas C. OdenWorshiping with the Church Fathers by Christopher Hall *Watch this interview on the YouTube channel!  *All episode music is by Melanie Penn. Guest’s Links:Dr. Joel C. Elowsky’s FacebookConnect with Melanie:The Rising (Album)WebsiteFacebookInstagramYouTubeSpotify*The Rising Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media. 

In this episode of The Rising, host Melanie Penn chats with author and teacher Zach Windahl, who has an amazing knack for helping people really get the Bible in a simple, practical way that changes lives. Zach dives into his latest book, The Bible, Simplified, sharing his perspective on how the whole Bible tells one continuous, overarching story about how much God wants a personal connection with us. Melanie and Zach explore how ancient wisdom sheds light on the idea of a new beginning, what’s significant about the timing of Christ’s return, and how surprising moments of wonder give us a peek at something better right here on earth. Thought-Provoking Quotes:“Something clicked for me when I understood the through line of Scripture and how it’s all one unified story instead of just a bunch of random pieces.” - Zach Windahl“God wants a relationship with His creation, and creation went their own way for many, many, years. It’s been a roller coaster of a relationship with Him, and we are now in the place of moving towards restoration and it’s already begun.” - Zach Windahl“Stories and testimonies should be repeated and talked about constantly, because I think it boosts faith in other people to believe that God could do that for me.” - Zach WindahlLinks, Products, and Resources Mentioned In This Episode:The Bible, Simplified by Zach WindahlThe Day the Revolution Began by N.T. Wright Logos Bible SoftwareThe New Bible Commentary*Watch this interview on the YouTube channel!  *All episode music is by Melanie Penn. Guest’s Links:Zach Windahl’s WebsiteZach Windahl’s FacebookZach Windahl’s InstagramZach Windahl’s YouTubeConnect with Melanie:The Rising (Album)WebsiteFacebookInstagramYouTubeSpotify*The Rising Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media. 

In this episode of The Rising, Melanie welcomes scholar Mike Glerup to help widen our understanding of how the resurrection story spread in the earliest days of the church. Together they trace how the news of Jesus’ rising didn’t remain confined to Jerusalem but moved outward quickly, taking root across Africa and shaping communities, languages, and even entire cultures long before Christianity became established in the West. Mike shares why the first documented convert outside Jerusalem was an African official, how early Christian movements grew in places like Nubia and Ethiopia, and how African theologians played a vital role in preserving and interpreting the story of the risen Christ. If you’re curious about how the resurrection spread and how African Christianity helped carry the story forward, this episode offers a fresh and eye-opening look.Thought-Provoking Quotes:“I think the existence and spread of the community kind of proves the Bible, and then the Bible proves the existence of the community. It's kind of a self-reinforcing loop.” - Mike Glerup “You see that the second oldest Christian country in the world is Ethiopia, that it's been praying in an African language to God for almost 17 centuries.” - Mike Glerup “Africans have been confessing Jesus as Lord, that he died, he rose again, and he will come again, he will rise and will come in African languages for much longer than we've been doing it in English.”  - Mike Glerup“In a lot of ways, Christianity is the history of trade routes, wherever people traveled, they brought the gospel with them.” - Mike GlerupLinks, Products, and Resources Mentioned In This Episode:Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture by Thomas C. OdenNicene CreedClassical Christianity: A Systematic Theology by Thomas C. Oden *Watch this interview on the YouTube channel!  *All episode music is by Melanie Penn. Guest’s Links:Mike Glerup’s ProjectConnect with Melanie:The Rising (Album)WebsiteFacebookInstagramYouTubeSpotify*The Rising Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media. 

In this compelling episode of The Rising Podcast, host Melanie Penn welcomes Dr. Michael J. Kruger, a leading scholar in New Testament and Early Christianity. Their fascinating discussion goes beyond typical religious debates, exploring the historical evidence surrounding one of humanity's most extraordinary claims: the resurrection of Jesus. Dr. Kruger unpacks the common objections raised by skeptics, revealing how underlying worldviews often shape our evaluation of historical events. Whether you’re a believer, a skeptic, or simply curious about history, this episode challenges assumptions and invites you to consider the profound implications if a man truly rose from the dead. Join us as we scrutinize ancient texts, analyze historical anomalies, and explore why the resurrection, if true, changes everything. Thought-Provoking Quotes:“If Jesus did not rise from the dead, you’re left with a rather meaningless universe. You have things that just happen and they’re random and there’s no real purpose, no real meaning, but if Jesus did rise from the dead, then that means there’s something more in the universe than you and me.” - Michael J. Kruger“The fact that the church exists at all in those early centuries and continued on is an anomaly and a historical fact that deserves a historical explanation. And I would say to somebody, regardless of what you think about God or the existence of God or the Bible, you have to explain that.” - Michael J. Kruger“One of the greatest evidences of the resurrection is; how in the world would the early Christian movement have ever survived the death of its savior? Why would it continue? Why would it even exist?” - Michael J. KrugerLinks, Products, and Resources Mentioned In This Episode:Surviving Religion 101: Letters to a Christian Student on Keeping the Faith in College by Michael J. Kruger*Watch this interview on the YouTube channel!  *All episode music is by Melanie Penn. Guest’s Links:Michael Kruger’s WebsiteMichael Kruger’s FacebookMichael Kruger’s XConnect with Melanie:The Rising (Album)WebsiteFacebookInstagramYouTubeSpotify*The Rising Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media. 

In this episode of The Rising Podcast, Melanie Penn sits down with Dr. Vincent Bacote, Professor of Theology and Director for the Center for Applied Christian Ethics at Wheaton College. They delve into the oft-told story of “doubting” Thomas from the Bible, exploring why John included this pivotal moment in his gospel and what it reveals about Jesus's patience and understanding of human doubt. Dr. Bacote encourages listeners to re-familiarize themselves with the awe and significance of the resurrection, discussing how to navigate moments of wavering faith and the profound truth that “death is a comma, not a period,” for believers. He also touches on the historicity of the resurrection and the unique claims of Christianity regarding Jesus’s life, death, and ascension.Thought-Provoking Quotes:“Sometimes we need help to be hopeful. And here's an example of Jesus helping Thomas to believe [He was back from the dead]. He says, ‘Here I am, you can put your hand here.’” - Dr. Vincent Bacote"Recognizing the fact that [the resurrection] is such a singular, history changing event, and staying in awe of that is really important. One of the ways we can keep that awe, if we’re over-familiarized, is thinking about where Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15 that more than 500 people saw him at one time." - Dr. Vincent Bacote“I think the truth of the resurrection is to give Christians the confidence that death is a comma and not a period.” - Dr. Vincent BacoteLinks, Products, and Resources Mentioned In This Episode:Black + Evangelical Documentary “Born Toward Dying” article by Richard John Neuhaus *Watch this interview on the YouTube channel!  *All episode music is by Melanie Penn. Guest’s Links:Dr. Vincent Bacote’s WebsiteDr. Vincent Bacote’s InstagramDr. Vincent Bacote’s XDr. Vincent Bacote’s FacebookConnect with Melanie:The Rising (Album)WebsiteFacebookInstagramYouTubeSpotify*The Rising Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media. 

Pastor J.D. Greear, leader of the rapidly growing Summit Church and author of Everyday Revolutionary: How to Transcend the Culture War and Transform the World, discusses faith amid today’s polarized culture. Drawing from biblical insights, he emphasizes the resurrection as the pivotal answer to doubt and suffering, stating, “Faith is accepting what you cannot understand based on what you can understand.” Greear highlights the ongoing experiential role of the Holy Spirit and advocates earnestly desiring spiritual gifts without chasing signs. Addressing apologetics, he outlines common questions believers face and defends the resurrection’s historical accuracy as foundational to Christian hope.Thought-Provoking Quotes:“My favorite definition of faith is accepting what you cannot understand based on what you can understand. You can understand the resurrection and the resurrection gives you the ability to trust God and the things you don't understand.”  - J.D. Greear“What Jesus is saying is there's something about the Holy Spirit in your experience with Him that's supposed to be greater. You would actually choose that over just Me in front of you. If you had the choice.”  - J.D. Greear“In light of the resurrection, if the resurrection is true, then your doubt, whatever it is, it's not pointing you to something that is actually a problem. It just means something you don't quite understand right now.” - J.D. Greear“The idea that a bunch of blue collar fishermen who had not been trained in any of this kind of resistance maintained till their dying day they'd seen Jesus raised from the dead all the while knowing that it really wasn't true. He said that pushes reason to the point of almost absurdity.”  - J.D. GreearLinks, Products, and Resources Mentioned In This Episode:Everyday Revolutionary: How to Transcend the Culture War and Transform the World by J.D. Greear *Watch this interview on the YouTube channel!  *All episode music is by Melanie Penn. Guest’s Links:J.D. Greear’s websiteJ.D. Greear’s FacebookJ.D. Greear’s Instagram J.D. Greear’s XJ.D. Greear’s YouTube Connect with Melanie:The Rising (Album)WebsiteFacebookInstagramYouTubeSpotify*The Rising Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media. 

Pastor, apologist, and author Sam Allberry joins The Rising to talk with Melanie Penn about faith, doubt, and the hope we find in the resurrection of Jesus. Sam shares his journey from skeptic to pastor, how he thinks about offering hospitality to those who struggle with belief, and why the resurrection is both the most “absurd” and the most compelling truth at the heart of Christianity. Together, Melanie and Sam explore what it means to be in Christ, how the cross unites us to God and to one another, and why the evidence for the resurrection points to more than just reason—it points to a living hope.Thought-Provoking Quotes:“I think when it comes to the resurrection in particular, to a thoughtful skeptic, it still sounds very absurd. It does sound science fiction-y, and I’m very conscious of that. I want to try to show how historically, philosophically, in as many ways as I can, that actually it’s more absurd to not believe in it, given what we see and know.” - Sam Allberry“Evidence alone is not going to generate faith in someone. That doesn’t mean I don’t present the evidence. I present the evidence, but pray that the Lord would use it to spark faith in someone.” - Sam Allberry“There’s a resurrection-shaped hole in human history, but it’s hard to account for otherwise. There’s so many other reasons to suppose Jesus is alive today.” - Sam Allberry“When we come to Christ in faith, we become one with Him. That the most common New Testament way of describing a Christian believer is to call them someone who is in Christ.” - Sam AllberryLinks, Products, and Resources Mentioned In This Episode:One With My Lord by Sam AllberryJesus and the Rise of Early Christianity by Paul BarnettThe Crucified King by Jeremy Treat*Watch this interview on the YouTube channel! *All episode music is by Melanie Penn. Guest’s Links:Sam Allberry’s websiteSam Allberry’s FacebookSam Allberry’s InstagramSam Allberry’s YouTubeConnect with Melanie:The Rising (Album)WebsiteFacebookInstagramYouTubeSpotify*The Rising Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media. 

In this captivating episode of The Rising Podcast, Melanie Penn sits down with authors Thomas West and Trevin Wax to explore the profound implications of Jesus’ ascension and the resurrection for humanity today. Drawing from their new book, The Gospel Way Catechism, Trevin and Thomas delve into how the resurrection is not merely a past event, but a “new beginning” of God’s new creation, impacting our present and future. They discuss how Jesus’ resurrected body offers a glimpse into a “new way of being human” and challenge our perceptions of heaven as a distant place, describing it instead as God’s “dimension of reality” that is “closer than we realize.” Discover how the unseen realm of heaven and earth will ultimately be one, and how our yearning for immortality is fulfilled in Christ’s gift of eternal life, a truth worth staking everything on.Thought-Provoking Quotes:“It's not just that by coming back from the dead, Jesus assures us a heavenly afterlife. It's that this new creation that has happened here is connected to the resurrection of our physical bodies when we will be made like Him. Me recognizing how my future resurrection is grounded in, tied up with and united to Jesus and His physical resurrection makes the story so much more compelling.” - Trevin Wax“We have so much that we're looking forward to in the future, but God is presently doing a new thing right now. What a wild truth to let your heart and mind start to rise up to. I think it invades the present now with  wonderful potential, wonderful hope. We're in the middle of a new thing.” - Thomas West“The resurrection is not the happy ending after Jesus' crucifixion on Good Friday. It is the new beginning of God's new creation.” - Trevin Wax “I think marketers know something that Augustine would have said or that other people have known throughout history is that we yearn for immortality. We yearn for eternity. Eternity is written in our hearts. And that's why people can sell stuff to us for that.” - Trevin WaxLinks, Products, and Resources Mentioned In This Episode:The Gospel Way Catechism: 50 Truths That Take On the World*Watch this interview on the YouTube channel!  *All episode music is by Melanie Penn. Guest’s Links:Trevin Wax’s websiteThomas West’s websiteTrevin Wax’s FacebookThomas West’s Facebook Thomas West’s InstagramTrevin Wax’s TwitterThomas West’s TwitterConnect with Melanie:The Rising (Album)WebsiteFacebookInstagramYouTubeSpotify*The Rising Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media. 

In this Christmas episode of The Rising, host Melanie Penn talks with acclaimed author Sally Lloyd-Jones, best known for The Jesus Storybook Bible and her latest release, Jesus Our True Friend: Stories to Fill Your Heart with Joy. Sally shares how she approaches writing about the life of Jesus in a way that’s both imaginative and true, and how the story of Christmas points forward to the hope of the Resurrection. She and Melanie discuss the creative process behind telling familiar stories in fresh ways, the importance of limits in art, and why wonder still matters.Thought-Provoking Quotes:“When you’re writing a story, it’s like an iceberg. You just see the top of it, but underneath, what you don’t see is the huge iceberg underneath the water. That is all the stuff you don’t put in the story, but is informing everything about the story.” - Sally Lloyd-Jones“Limits are actually your friends because they force you to be really distilled.” - Sally Lloyd-Jones“When I’m writing, it comes from being moved myself. Whether it’s a Bible story or a story about a goldfish—whatever it is, it’s ultimately worship.” - Sally Lloyd-Jones“Our job is to have our imaginations on fire and write from a place of truth. And then the mystery of it is that if you’re telling the truth, you’re not putting it on, you are not faking it, then it will have power and the power miraculously will come to the reader.” - Sally Lloyd-Jones“Write the story only you can write. That means everything about your life, what you’ve written, read, where you grew up, your background—everything will feed into what will make you unique.” - Sally Lloyd-Jones*Watch this interview on the YouTube channel!  *All episode music is by Melanie Penn. Guest’s Links:Sally Lloyd-Jones’ websiteSally Lloyd-Jones’ Facebook Sally Lloyd-Jones’ InstagramSally Lloyd-Jones’ YouTubeThe Story of God’s Great Love YouTubeThe Story of God’s Great Love InstagramThe Story of God’s Great Love FacebookConnect with Melanie:The Rising (Album)WebsiteFacebookInstagramYouTubeSpotify*The Rising Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media. 

In this episode of The Rising, Melanie interviews Pastor Saleem Shalash, founder of Jesus the King Church in Nazareth and leader of the largest Israeli-Arab humanitarian aid center, supported by the Joseph Project. Saleem discusses how his ministry bridges ethnic and religious divides by assisting both Arab and Jewish families. He emphasizes the transformative power of faith, grounded in both Old and New Testament teachings, and the importance of tailoring the gospel message for Muslim and Jewish audiences. He shares miraculous accounts of healing and dreams revealing Jesus. Amid escalating regional tensions, Saleem advocates for unity over doctrinal disagreements, stressing the importance of compassion and winning hearts rather than just minds.Thought-Provoking Quotes:“I do believe in the verse that says ‘All things work together for the good for those who love the Lord.’ You know, we don’t see all of the puzzle, but when God knows every part of this puzzle and where it’s placed, He is going to take care to put it in the right place.” - Saleem Shalash“We need to understand, it’s not about who we are, it’s about who He is. It’s not about what we are doing for God. It’s all about what God did for us through the cross and the resurrection.” - Saleem Shalash“It’s not time to win discussions more than it’s time to win souls to Jesus. And that is the mission of what we’re trying to do.” - Saleem Shalash“There is a lot of work to do. The work is not inside the church. The work is outside the walls of the church. Everyone can be a believer in the church. Show me that you are a believer outside the walls of the church. People will look at you and say ‘There is something different in this man.’ What is the difference? Jesus in his life." - Saleem ShalashGuest’s Links:The Joseph Project International WebsiteSaleem Shalash About PageThe Joseph Project International FacebookSaleem Shalash Instagram The Joseph Project XSaleem Shalash speaking at a conference (YouTube)Home of the Jesus King Church (Israel)JTK Bridge Builders U.S. Support Site*Watch this interview on the YouTube channel!  *All episode music is by Melanie Penn. Connect with Melanie:The Rising (Album)WebsiteFacebookInstagramYouTubeSpotify*The Rising Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media. 

This week on The Rising, Melanie Penn sits down with Rev. Dr. Mark Meynell to explore the profound theological implications of Jesus’ scars and the bodily resurrection. Dr. Meynell, a distinguished pastor, writer, and former associate director of Langham Preaching, unpacks how the resurrection is not merely a historical event, but a radical redefinition of life, death, and our very embodiment. Discover why Jesus’ enduring scars are not a sign of weakness, but a testament to a unique, eternal victory. From the Genesis narrative of death as a “protective measure” to Peter's restoration and the distinct nature of Christian resurrection, this conversation brings understanding as to why Jesus’ physical return from death—and the indwelling of the same Spirit that raised Him—offers an unparalleled source of hope and power for every believer.Thought-Provoking Quotes:“I began to recognize that Jesus is alive. And so then you have to say, ‘Well, how is he alive if he was killed on a cross?’ He came to life.” - Rev. Dr. Mark Meynell “Because it is a resurrection, not a resuscitation. It is not a cycle. He doesn’t come back out of death; He goes through death never to do it again.” - Rev. Dr. Mark Meynell “Theology is not about pumping your brain with data and knowledge. It’s about knowing Christ, knowing what He’s done for us. That’s the engine room of theology.” - Rev. Dr. Mark Meynell “The same spirit who raised Jesus from the dead lives in us.” - Rev. Dr. Mark MeynellLinks, Products, and Resources Mentioned In This Episode:Life After Life by Mark Meynell*Watch this interview on the YouTube channel!  *All episode music is by Melanie Penn. Guest’s Links:Rev. Dr. Mark Meynell’s Website Rev. Dr. Mark Meynell’s InstagramConnect with Melanie:The Rising (Album)WebsiteFacebookInstagramYouTubeSpotify*The Rising Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media. 

This week on The Rising, we have a heartwarming conversation with Rev. Chris Lee and his wife, Jenny. Melanie and the Lees delve into the profound mystery of the resurrection, exploring personal moments of belief and the most compelling narratives from the Gospels. They discuss how the seemingly "wild thing to believe" in Jesus's literal resurrection is, for Chris and Jenny, a deeply personal and tangible reality. They share insights into why the differing accounts of the resurrection in the Gospels actually strengthen its credibility, and how the disciples' transformation from fear to fearless martyrdom speaks volumes. From Mary Magdalene's personal encounter with the resurrected Christ to the ongoing presence of Jesus in our daily lives, this episode explores the enduring hope and transformative power of the resurrection. Thought-Provoking Quotes:“The resurrected Jesus allows us to understand that God knows us and calls us by our name.” - Chris Lee “The resurrection is a signpost that no one is too far—no one is outside of God’s grace and power.” - Chris Lee “You need infinity to pin down all the nuances of the resurrection.” - Jenny Lee Links, Products, and Resources Mentioned In This Episode:“You Are Beloved” book by Jenny & Rev Chris Lee Peter and John Running to the Tomb painting by Eugène Burnand  *Watch this interview on the YouTube channel!  *All episode music is by Melanie Penn. Guest’s Links:Rev Chris Lee’s WebsiteRev Chris Lee’s FacebookRev Chris Lee’s InstagramRev Chris Lee’s XRev Chris Lee’s YouTubeConnect with Melanie:The Rising (Album)WebsiteFacebookInstagramYouTubeSpotify*The Rising Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media. 

This week on The Rising Podcast, host Melanie welcomes Dr. Kelly Kapic, professor of theology at Covenant College and author of Embodied Hope and You Were Never Meant to Do It All. Kelly shares his journey of faith, his academic work, and reflections on the resurrection of Jesus. He emphasizes that theology should be both pastoral and practical, and that resurrection is not only a future promise but a present reality shaping daily life. Together, Melanie and Kelly explore themes of doubt, worship, and suffering, showing how the resurrection speaks into our struggles and hopes today.Thought-Provoking Quotes:“For me, resurrection isn’t just a future thing, it is what informs our present existence.” - Kelly Kapic“There are all kinds of material consequences to the resurrection of Christ. It’s not just what’s going to happen when you die.” - Kelly Kapic“It’s very normal for Christians to doubt. I don’t think when you become a Christian, you stop doubting. The question is, do you worship? And can you be comfortable worshiping in the midst of your doubt?” - Kelly Kapic“Doubt is often less about evidence and more about, ‘Can God really be this good? Can He be this near to me?’” - Kelly Kapic“If you want to know what God is like, you look to Jesus. If you want to know what being human is like, you look to Jesus.” - Kelly KapicLinks, Products, and Resources Mentioned In This Episode:Embodied Hope by Kelly KapicYou Were Never Meant To Do It All by Kelly Kapic*Watch this interview on the YouTube channel!  *All episode music is by Melanie Penn. Guest’s Links:Covenant College Faculty PageConnect with Melanie:The Rising (Album)WebsiteFacebookInstagramYouTubeSpotify*The Rising Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media. 

In this profound episode of The Rising Podcast, host Melanie Penn welcomes Dr. Christopher Hall, a distinguished theologian and author mentored by J.I. Packer, and former president of Renovare (founded by Richard Foster). Dr. Hall delves into the often-feared topic of death and resurrection, offering a deeply encouraging perspective rooted in the wisdom of the Church Fathers, particularly Augustine. The conversation addresses pressing questions about the physical body after death, especially for those who have lost loved ones, including children. Dr. Hall assures listeners of God’s boundless power to restore and fully actualize every human being, even in cases of bodies seemingly lost or disintegrated. He explores the concept of the “chain of consumption” as pondered by the Church Fathers and shares Augustine’s powerful conviction that nothing can elude the Creator’s notice or power. The episode culminates with Dr. Hall’s compelling reflection on the resurrection scene in John 20, where the grave clothes themselves provided undeniable proof of Jesus’ miraculous bodily resurrection. This episode offers profound Christian hope and a renewed vision of eternity, encouraging listeners to approach the future with joy rather than fear.Thought-Provoking Quotes:“God honors the process that He already built. So we’re all headed toward full healing. We’re all heading toward full restoration. And at times God decides, ‘You know what? I’m gonna honor this process of long restoration, long healing, but I’m going to do it in an instant, in an eye blink—all those steps.’” - Melanie Penn “Whatever the future holds, it’s better than we could ever imagine. St. Paul said that. It’s better than we can ever imagine, so we don’t have to frown when we think about the future. We can smile.” - Christopher Hall “What about bodies that have been consumed by fire? What about somebody lost at sea? Augustine writes this: ‘It is unthinkable that the Creator should lack the power to revive them all and restore them to life. It is inconceivable that any nook or cranny of the natural world, though it may hold those bodies concealed, could elude the notice or evade the power of the Creator of all things.’” - Christopher Hall “I pray that those who have been listening in would walk away encouraged and walk away with less fear and anxiety about what the future holds, because You have taken care of everything. I hear You saying, ‘I can handle this. I can handle this.’” - Christopher HallLinks, Products, and Resources Mentioned In This Episode:J.I. Packer Richard FosterCelebration of Discipline book by Richard FosterRenovation of the Heart book by Dallas Willard RenovareTodd Beamer Augustine, the City of God *Watch this interview on the YouTube channel!  *All episode music is by Melanie Penn. Guest’s Links:Renovare websiteRenovare FacebookRenovare InstagramConnect with Melanie:The Rising (Album)WebsiteFacebookInstagramYouTubeSpotify*The Rising Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media. 

In this episode of The Rising Podcast, Melanie Penn continues her conversation with Joseph Yoo, diving deeper into the theological complexities of the resurrection, focusing on the often-misunderstood figure of Judas. They discuss Judas not merely as “the betrayer” but as a complex individual whose actions might have stemmed from disillusionment and a different expectation of Jesus’s messianic role. Joseph shares his personal reflections on Judas, influenced by his own struggles with feelings of betrayal. The conversation also touches on the possibility that Judas believed his actions would accelerate Jesus's mission and lead to a different outcome. Additionally, Melanie discusses her upcoming resurrection-themed album, emphasizing that Easter’s message is not limited to a single day, but is relevant every day. Thought-Provoking Quotes:“That hurts when you put someone on a pedestal and they are nothing what you thought they were. That does hurt. That does feel like a betrayal. And I feel like that’s something that Judas wrestled with.” - Joseph Yoo“How many times have we felt betrayed and we retaliated in that betrayal? We may not have sold our friends to the powers that be to have them executed. But we’ve caused some sort of death in our retaliation, a feeling of betrayal. That’s what humans do when we’re hurt.” - Joseph Yoo “Jacob literally wrestled with God. We’re meant to wrestle and ask questions and know that God is bigger than our questions. The more questions we ask, the more we are able to understand.” - Joseph Yoo"Easter isn’t just one day of the week. Easter’s every single Sunday, because we serve a risen Lord. Easter’s everyday!” - Joseph YooLinks, Products, and Resources Mentioned In This Episode:Mosaic Episcopal ChurchWesley Theological SeminaryAmerican UniversityThe Falls ChurchSt. George’s Episcopal Church*Watch this interview on the YouTube channel!  *All episode music is by Melanie Penn. Guest’s Links:Joseph Yoo’s websiteJoseph Yoo’s FacebookJoseph Yoo’s Instagram Joseph Yoo’s TikTokConnect with Melanie:The Rising (Album)WebsiteFacebookInstagramYouTubeSpotify*The Rising Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media. 

In this week’s episode of The Rising Podcast, Melanie Penn speaks with Joseph Yoo, an Episcopal priest known for his dynamic presence on TikTok and other social media platforms. Joseph and Melanie delve into the complexities of the resurrection and the often-overlooked period of Holy Saturday. Joseph emphasizes that it’s normal to have questions about faith, highlighting that certainty is the opposite of faith, not doubt. He also discusses the importance of acknowledging and processing mourning and grief, relating the disciples’ experiences after the crucifixion to everyday struggles. Joseph encourages us not just to believe in the resurrection as an event, but to consider the transformative power of a personal encounter with the risen Lord—and ask yourself, “Have you seen Him?” This is episode one with Joseph—in episode two, we’ll unravel the enigmatic role of Judas in Jesus’ crucifixion and its profound impact on the resurrection story.Thought-Provoking Quotes:“The Resurrection is what drives us as a religion. Without the resurrection, there is no Christianity.” - Joseph Yoo “Doubt isn’t the opposite of faith. Certainty is. Once you’re certain about something, you don’t need faith because you have all the answers.” - Joseph Yoo“[The disciples are mourning Jesus’ death] and they don’t know how to mourn because the mourning is so deep. And there’s so much richness in their mourning that we don’t talk about it at church because it makes everyone feel uncomfortable.” - Joseph Yoo“I feel like there’s actual relatable experiences that the disciples felt that we feel as well two thousand odd years later. And I just don’t think that we allow people to explore it enough. The only time we talk about grief is like when there’s a memorial service at the church.” - Joseph YooLinks, Products, and Resources Mentioned In This Episode:Mosaic Episcopal ChurchMichael Frost*Watch this interview on the YouTube channel!  *All episode music is by Melanie Penn. Guest’s Links:Joseph Yoo’s websiteJoseph Yoo’s FacebookJoseph Yoo’s Instagram Joseph Yoo’s TikTokConnect with Melanie:The Rising (Album)WebsiteFacebookInstagramYouTubeSpotify*The Rising Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media. 

This week we take another deep dive into the story of the resurrection with biblical scholar Pete Enns. Together, Melanie and Pete explore the historical context of the Bible, the varying accounts of the resurrection, and its impact on everyday life. Pete and Melanie discuss everything from the counterintuitive nature of the Easter story to the broader concept of resurrection in Jewish belief, and even personal rhythms of faith. Discover why the inconsistencies in the gospel narratives might just make the story more human and more true. Thought-Provoking Quotes:“One cannot have contentment in the Christian life without the darkness. Dying is the only path to resurrection and that is the way of knowing God. There is no shortcut.” - Pete Enns“Richard Rohr does say that ‘life is about learning to let go.’ It's a series of letting go moments so that when the last letting go comes—your life–-you're ready because you've been doing this all along, right? And I think that's a beautiful, inspiring and emotional way, for me, of thinking of the nature of the Christian faith.” - Pete Enns“Living well is learning how to die to your ego, to the fascinations we have with things and with possessions, and to be able to let go of things so that you can be raised to newness of life and continually—not just once when you raise your hand in church, but this is a pattern of life.” - Pete Enns“What we have [in the Gospels] is people bearing witness to their faith in Christ and what that looked like, and there’s a lot of agreement between the four Gospels, but there are also a lot of differences, and that’s just the way it is.” - Pete EnnsLinks, Products, and Resources Mentioned In This Episode:Eastern University The Bible for Normal People Podcast with Pete Enns and Jared Byas*Watch this interview on the YouTube channel!  *All episode music is by Melanie Penn. Guest’s Links:Pete Enns’ FacebookPete Enns’ TwitterPete Enns’ InstagramConnect with Melanie:The Rising (Album)WebsiteFacebookInstagramYouTubeSpotify*The Rising Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media. 

In this inspiring episode of The Rising Podcast, Melanie sits down with author and Bible teacher Margaret Feinberg to discuss what it means to live daily in the spirit of the resurrection. Margaret shares profound insights from the resurrection narrative, highlighting the significance of Christ entrusting the message to women and what that means for us today. She also introduces practical ways to remember the resurrection, including the power of daily declarations rooted in scripture that can rewire our brains and shift our perspective from death to life. The conversation delves into the Hebrew word ruch for spirit, breath, and air, emphasizing the closeness of the Holy Spirit, and explores deeper meanings behind the figures in the Old Testament, revealing how God’s Spirit has been at work all throughout history. Finally, Margaret touches on the common doubts embodied by Thomas and Christ’s compassionate response, offering comfort and encouragement that His resurrection power is coming for us all.Thought-Provoking Quotes:“I love the moment Christ walks out [of the tomb]. It proclaims in word and deed and in miracle that death does not have the final say. And who does He first entrust this message to? Women. It is such a liberating and empowering message for you, for me, and every woman out there.” - Margaret Feinberg“It’s so easy to go to those negative places. A simple practice we all can engage in is making declarations that are rooted in scripture and begin rewiring our brain toward a new reality. Where there is death, I will speak life. Where there is brokenness, I will speak wholeness. And that can really begin to shift things, not just for ourselves, but for those around us.” - Margaret Feinberg “Christ embraces us and our doubts and our fears and our questions and our skepticism, that there’s no question that is too big or too hard for Christ and His compassion and His resurrection power to answer.” - Margaret Feinberg“When we let go of our final breath, that resurrection power that is in Christ is coming for us. And we will get to stand face to face with the one who made us and loved us more than we could ever imagine.” - Margaret Feinberg Links, Products, and Resources Mentioned In This Episode:The God You Need to Know by Margaret Feinberg *Watch this interview on the YouTube channel!  *All episode music is by Melanie Penn. Guest’s Links:Margaret Feinberg’s websiteMargaret Feinberg’s FacebookMargaret Feinberg’s InstagramMargaret Feinberg’s XMargaret Feinberg’s YouTubeConnect with Melanie:The Rising (Album)WebsiteFacebookInstagramYouTubeSpotify*The Rising Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media. 

In this episode of The Rising Podcast, join Melanie as she welcomes her long-time collaborator and friend, award-winning music producer Ben Shive. Ben, known for his incredible musical talent and insight, has produced all of Melanie’s albums, including The Rising, a resurrection album they co-wrote. They delve into their creative process, discussing how they crafted songs inspired by scripture, navigating the delicate balance of interpretation and faithfulness. The conversation expands to explore what it truly means to be an artist and creator, touching on themes of calling, workaholism, and the importance of Sabbath in a technology-driven world. Ben shares deeply personal insights into his spiritual journey and the challenges of balancing artistic ambition with spiritual discipline. This episode offers a unique perspective for artists and creators of all kinds, as well as anyone interested in the intersection of faith and creativity.Thought-Provoking Quotes:“We really didn’t want to feel like we were putting words in Jesus’ mouth that makes him my Jesus… one that I find to be easier to grapple with… So I remember feeling some humility writing the “Jesus” song. - Ben Shive “He's my Dad, so He doesn't go 'shame on you.' He goes 'yes, I know that's what you did. I saw you do that.' It's like when my kids mess up, I'm not going to catch them so I can bust them. I'm hoping they get caught so that we can talk about it and they can learn and grow. That's God's attitude toward me." - Ben Shive "I'm not in control of who the music reaches and how they feel about it when it reaches them. So my goals have become a little bit more about what the work is supposed to be like. What should the process feel like? What's an honoring way to work?"- Ben Shive Links, Products, and Resources Mentioned In This Episode:Remembering by Wendell BerryA Liturgy, A Legacy & A Ragamuffin Band by Rich MullinsKnowing God by J.I. PackerThe Jesus Storybook Bible by Sally Lloyd-JonesEat This Book by Eugene Peterson“Holy is the Lord” by Ben Shive and Andrew PetersonThe Sermon on the Mount*Watch this interview on the YouTube channel!  *All episode music is by Melanie Penn. Guest’s Links:Ben Shive’s WebsiteBen Shive’s Instagram Connect with Melanie:The Rising (Album)WebsiteFacebookInstagramYouTubeSpotify*The Rising Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media. 

In this compelling episode of The Rising Podcast, Ismail Youssef—also known as Ish of Arabia—is a former Muslim who left Islam to embrace Catholicism, rejecting what he sees as the contradictions, injustices, and oppressive teachings of Muhammad. On the show, Ismail shares his journey of spiritual awakening, revealing how a dream ignited a transformation from Islam to Christianity. Ismail details his personal encounter with Christ and articulates insights on faith, the resurrection, and the power of divine connection.Thought-Provoking Quotes:“There’s a more direct connection in Christianity to God. It’s more of a friendship connection. So this idea that God was a friend who was going to help me out on my day-to-day life was very foreign to me and didn’t make much sense to me until I saw how it influenced the Christians around me.” - Ismail Youssef“I realized that there's a God and He loves me and He hasn’t abandoned me. And He’s not far away, He’s right here. All He wants me to do is put my faith in Him.” - Ismail Youssef“God’s always on the mind, because He lives inside you now.” - Ismail YoussefLinks, Products, and Resources Mentioned In This Episode:Ismail’s interview on Pints With Aquinas PodcastFlavius Josephus*Watch this interview on the YouTube channel!  *All episode music is by Melanie Penn. Guest’s Links:Ismail’s InstagramIsmail’s YouTube*Correction/clarification: It is stated at 00:40 that Ismail was born in Egypt. He was actually born in Nova Scotia.Connect with Melanie:The Rising (Album)WebsiteFacebookInstagramYouTubeSpotify*The Rising Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media. 

This week on The Rising Podcast, Melanie speaks with Father Ambrose Criste about the resurrection and its meaning for Christians today. Father Ambrose shares his love for the biblical accounts of Jesus’ appearances after His resurrection, including the profound meaning of Mary Magdalene’s encounter with the risen Christ. He also highlights the empty tomb as evidence of the resurrection and the hope that belief in the risen Christ offers to a world that fears death. Thought-Provoking Quotes:“Faith is a gift. There are very often obstacles that stand in the way between us and faith. And those obstacles have to be removed.” - Father Ambrose Criste“Life would be so meaningless if you didn't know on faith that there’s something beyond this life, and that this life and everything we love about it and enjoy about it will carry with us into the next life. I don’t know how people would find any meaning in their life without that.” - Father Ambrose Criste“God knows your darkest secrets, but that doesn't make Him love you less, it makes Him love you more. He loves you more because He knows how much you need to be loved. And He calls you by name.” - Father Ambrose Criste “The lower we humble ourselves before the Lord, the higher He raises us up.” - Father Ambrose CristeGuest’s Links:St. Michael’s Abbey websiteSt. Michael’s Abbey FacebookSt. Michael’s Abbey InstagramSt. Michael’s Abbey XSt. Michael’s Abbey YouTube*Watch this interview on the YouTube channel!  *All episode music is by Melanie Penn. Connect with Melanie:The Rising (Album)WebsiteFacebookInstagramYouTubeSpotify*The Rising Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media.

Historian Molly Worthen, a former skeptic who once envied those with faith, embarked on an unexpected journey toward belief in Jesus' resurrection. Her academic work in American religious history led her to examine Christian claims more deeply. Conversations with a pastor and advice from theologian/Christian apologist Tim Keller prompted her to reconsider her skepticism, as she found the evidence for the resurrection more compelling than she initially thought. This shift in perspective on the supernatural culminated in her baptism in a Southern Baptist church, a surprising turn for someone with an academic background who had previously dismissed such beliefs. Worthen’s story illustrates how open-mindedness and supportive relationships can lead to profound and unexpected changes in one’s convictions.Thought-Provoking Quotes:“From that fairly early point, age 18 or 19, I think I already detected in myself a real envy of people who had a religious home, who had some confidence in a set of answers to the big questions.” - Molly Worthen “I realized I had a lot of questions that I had never looked into. Despite being a historian of Christianity, I’d never really, in a close and thoughtful way, investigated the basic historical claims of the faith.” - Molly Worthen “The case for the reality of the resurrection was just a whole lot better than I thought. And the case for my old worldview was starting to crumble.” - Molly Worthen “I have read the gospels plenty of times, it’s part of my job description. But I had always read them out of duty, I was never gripped by them. But there was a grittiness and a reality—especially in Jesus’ encounters with the people He heals—that really arrested me for the first time.” - Molly Worthen“Maybe we’ll get to hang out with the apostles one day. It’s almost a credit to their humanity and respect for one another that they just let each other tell the story like they were friends.” - Melanie Penn “My faith is very fragile. I am always having to revisit the questions I've been wrestling with for a long time and needing reassurance, and I'm always hungry to read more and learn more. Even if you feel fairly firm in your faith, I think you need a community where you can ask those questions without being afraid that you'll be taken as some kind of heretic.” - Molly Worthen“I think it's so important—whether you're a Christian or a seeker—to find a community that is comfortable with doubt. I would encourage people who have questions to persist in finding, until they find a conversation partner who supports them.” - Molly Worthen“Christianity is unique among the world religions in that it stands or falls on a discrete event that believers say happened in history. And it happened close enough to our own time that there actually is evidence.” - Molly WorthenLinks, Products, and Resources Mentioned In This Episode:The New York TimesThe New YorkerForeign PolicyThe University of North Carolina at Chapel HillSpellbound: How Charisma Shaped American History from the Puritans to Donald TrumpTim KellerJ.D. GreearC.S. LewisThe Language of God by Francis S. Collins The Reason for God by Tim Keller Veritas Forum*Watch this interview on the YouTube channel!  *All episode music is by Melanie Penn. Guest’s Links:Molly Worthen’s websiteConnect with Melanie:The Rising (Album)WebsiteFacebookInstagramYouTubeSpotify*The Rising Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media. 

Join Melanie Penn on The Rising as she welcomes Dr. Gavin Ortlund—pastor, author, speaker, and apologist. In this episode, Gavin and Melanie delve into the historical evidence of the resurrection of Christ. Dr. Ortlund discusses common skeptical theories against the resurrection, such as grave theft and hallucination, and explains why the disciples’ willingness to die for their eyewitness accounts is compelling evidence. He also introduces the “criterion of embarrassment” from the Gospels, highlighting how the apostles’ unflattering portrayals of themselves lend credibility to their testimonies. Plus, hear why the omnipresence of the Holy Spirit means believers today are in a better position than even the apostles were. Discover more about Dr. Ortlund’s work, including his YouTube channel, Truth Unites, and his upcoming book, Why Christianity Makes Sense.Thought-Provoking Quotes:“People are really searching for hope right now and they’re so desperate, they look everywhere. So I want to talk about the reasons we have for peace and joy and assurance in who Jesus is.” - Gavin Ortlund“We have an epidemic of anxiety, and I think some of that anxiety relates to spiritual questions. And I think happily, there are some answers to those questions.” - Gavin Ortlund“My arguments for Christianity only take me so far. They're not getting me all the way to certainty and that's true for the resurrection as well. I think historical evidence and arguments are compelling. They're good witnesses, but they don't produce faith in your heart.” - Gavin Ortlund“I'm not interested in an apologetics that kind of pulls back from the way the rest of human life works. I'm interested in one that speaks to people where they're at, gives honest answers to honest questions.” - Gavin Ortlund“The book of Jude says, have mercy on those who doubt. That is comforting, that it's in the Bible. What that tells us is, I don't want to glorify doubt, as though it's a good thing, but genuine Christians have doubts.” - Gavin Ortlund“The Holy Spirit is our greatest comfort and consoler. He gives assurance, he gives peace, he gives joy. Think of a warm, pleasant breath falling upon you that takes your fears away. This is what the Holy Spirit can do.  And just pray with confidence and pray with expectation that he will be able to meet our needs based upon what Christ has done in history and now what the spirit does inside of us.” - Gavin Ortlund*Watch this interview on the YouTube channel!  *All episode music is by Melanie Penn. Guest’s Links:Truth Unites websiteTruth Unites Facebook Truth Unites InstagramTruth Unites XTruth Unites YouTubeConnect with Melanie:The Rising (Album)WebsiteFacebookInstagramYouTubeSpotify*The Rising Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media. 

Introducing The Rising Podcast! Hosted by singer/songwriter and worship leader Melanie Penn, this podcast delves into the pivotal event of the resurrection. Episodes will be released weekly, coinciding with Melanie’s new album, The Rising: A Resurrection Album.The album’s songs narrate the resurrection story, from Holy Saturday to Christ’s Ascension. In The Rising Podcast, Melanie interviews authors, historians, personalities, and academics, fostering conversations between a contemporary songwriter and a spiritual community of theologians, thought-leaders, and scholars. These discussions aim to offer rare insights for both believers and skeptics.The Rising Podcast is launching soon—subscribe now so you don’t miss an episode!Connect with Melanie:WebsiteFacebookInstagramYouTubeSpotify*The Rising Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media.