The Space Between

Manish Kapur is the creator of the AgencyOS™ framework and a specialist in agency operations, helping agencies improve efficiency, delivery, and profitability. With a career spanning studio management through to executive operations leadership, Manish now works with agencies to diagnose what’s holding them back and unlock sustainable growth.In this episode of The Space Between, Manish joins Debbie Richardson and Seth Hawthorne to explore why growing agencies often become less profitable, how operational inefficiencies quietly stall progress, and why confidence - not capability - is often the real barrier to becoming a strategic partner. They unpack the impact of AI on talent, pricing, and delivery, and why the future belongs to agencies that move beyond execution and lead with thinking. It’s a candid conversation about discipline, value, and what it really takes to build an agency that works.

Dan Reeves is a co-founder of Subject.ai, a platform helping brands remain visible in the rapidly shifting world of AI-driven search. With a background in semantic search and digital publishing, Dan focuses on how organisations structure and surface their knowledge so both humans and machines can understand it.In this episode of The Space Between, Dan joins Ben Slater and Seth Hawthorne to explore how the rise of AI answer engines is fundamentally changing how brands are discovered online. They unpack the shift from keyword search to topic and entity-based discovery, why third-party signals and reputation now matter more than backlinks, and what brands must do to ensure their expertise is visible in a world of probabilistic AI search. It’s a candid conversation about credibility, content quality, and why the brands that win will be the ones that adapt while staying focused on the value they deliver.

Tom Salmon is the co-founder of Agency by Agency, a consultancy that helps agencies grow through sharper positioning, stronger commercial thinking, and more valuable client relationships. In this episode of The Space Between, Tom joins Ben Slater and Seth Hawthorne to explore the pressures reshaping modern agencies - from the commoditisation of creative services to the increasing expectation for strategic value.

Emma Kelly is the Global Head of Consulting at Verity RI, a consultancy dedicated to unlocking the commercial power of relationships. With over 20 years of client satisfaction data and a global team of consultants, Emma works with agencies and brands to turn feedback into action, helping organisations grow through stronger, smarter partnerships.In this episode of The Space Between, Emma joins Debbie Richardson and Seth Hawthorne to explore how agency–client relationships have shifted since Covid, why “transactional drag” is quietly undermining strategic partnerships, and what separates relationships that are fit for today from those built for tomorrow. From juniorisation and psychological safety to future fitness, talent experience, and relational intelligence in an AI-driven world, this is a candid look at how agencies can balance product innovation with human connection to unlock sustainable growth.

Ben Flintoff has worked across banking, finance, food, and franchising, with hands-on experience on both the franchisee and franchisor side of global brands. He brings an operator’s lens to marketing, loyalty, and customer experience, shaped by years spent on the ground rather than just in theory.Filmed just before the 2025 Christmas break, in this episode of The Space Between, Ben joins Ben Slater to explore how global brands navigate local culture, why constant innovation can sometimes weaken strong brands, and what really drives loyalty in a world of apps, discounts, and digital noise. From food pricing and franchise execution to AI, self-ordering kiosks, and the widening gap between marketing and operations, it’s a practical, candid conversation about where value is created - and where it quietly leaks away.Connect with Ben at https://www.linkedin.com/in/benflintoff/

Remeny Armitage is the founder of Brilliant and Human, an insights consultancy helping agencies strengthen client relationships by listening to what clients don’t always say.In this episode of The Space Between, Remeny joins Debbie Richardson and Seth Hawthorne to explore why agencies often undervalue their strategic capability, how honest client feedback can unlock growth, and why listening with intent is one of the most commercial skills an agency can develop. It’s a candid conversation about courage, clarity, and the value hidden in the space between agency and client.

Aaron Hutchinson is the founder of The Hutch Consultancy and EMEA Training Director for Win Without Pitching, helping creative businesses refine how they position, pitch, and price their expertise. A former Managing Director at Across the Pond, Aaron now teaches agencies how to show up as experts, win better clients, and charge what they’re truly worth.In this episode of The Space Between, Aaron joins Debbie Richardson and Seth Hawthorne to unpack why agencies must stop thinking like suppliers and start behaving like specialists. He shares how to replace “winging it” with process, why the best agencies sell through listening, and how one question - “Three years from now, what’s happened to make you happy?” - can reframe any client relationship.Learn Morehttps://form.thehutch.co/traininghttps://www.thehutch.co

Roy Murphy is the co-founder of G3NR8, a strategic AI implementation partner for agencies. With extensive experience in both large and boutique agencies, Roy helps businesses navigate the evolving landscape of AI and marketing.In this episode of The Space Between, Roy joins Ben Slater to discuss the provocative notion that agencies might face extinction within 18 months. Also on the table for discussion is the democratisation of creativity, the importance of agencies embracing AI, and how collaboration between agencies and clients is more crucial than ever. Learn more and connect with Roy here:https://lnkd.in/gMP9auPjSales and Marketing AI Playbookhttps://www.g3nr8.com/ai-sales-and-marketing-ecosystemMarketers AI roundtablehttps://www.g3nr8.com/senior-marketers-ai-roundtableG3NR8 AI newsletterhttps://www.g3nr8.com/blog

Chris Devlin is the founding partner of Pivotal, a talent partner for creative, marketing, and media agencies. With deep insight across both network and independent agencies, Chris helps businesses build teams that move beyond delivery to genuine partnership.In this episode of The Space Between, Chris joins Debbie Richardson and Seth Hawthorne to explore how agencies can evolve from suppliers to strategic collaborators. With deep insights into why every point of contact must be shaped like a consultation, how AI is reshaping entry-level work and freeing space for deeper client conversations, and why “fractional” talent is redefining flexibility. Chris is calling for agencies to stay curious, get closer to their clients’ long-term vision, and embrace change as the only constant in a competitive, opportunity-rich market. Will you?Produced by Ben Slater (because he likes to do this stuff when not CTO'ing at MSQ).

Marc Holland is a senior marketing leader with over 20 years’ experience transforming marketing functions into strategic growth engines. He’s held leadership roles with global brands including SharkNinja, O2/Telefónica, and LEGO, driving multi-million-pound revenue growth through data-led, commercially creative strategies. Known for building and mentoring high-performance teams, Marc excels at orchestrating complex global initiatives and pioneering innovative go-to-market approaches that set new industry standards. Today, he combines his corporate expertise with executive coaching to develop the next generation of marketing leaders capable of navigating complex business landscapes with confidence and vision.In this episode of The Space Between, we explore what it really takes for agencies to move from supplier to trusted partner.Marc asks agencies  to challenge the comfort zone;  calling for less cut and paste and more grounded, strategic creativity.  He wants innovation aligned with budgets and built on existing strategy, using a test–learn–iterate approach with minimal risk and maximum potential.Clients love seeing fresh ideas backed by solid planning and clear routes to board-level approval.Trust, we hear, comes not from saying yes to everything but from honesty, collaboration and cultural fit. Sometimes, the most powerful move is bringing clients together simply to spark conversation.The big takeaway: deeper strategic thinking, paired with cultural alignment and empathy, transforms how clients perceive value. Learn more and connect with Marc here:https://www.linkedin.com/in/marc-holland/About The Space BetweenThe Space Between is where honest conversations live - the ones agencies rarely make time for. Hosted by the team at MSQ, it explores the gap between what we say we do and what really drives growth, creativity, and change.Each episode brings together voices from across the agency world to unpack the space between ideas and action, leadership and reality, data and instinct. No spin, no posturing - just clarity, curiosity, and the occasional uncomfortable truth.For more on MSQ and the tools helping agencies sell and deliver strategy, visit http://msqindex.com.

The Space Between Episode 1.0 | The Conversations We Don’t Have“Every agency says they want to be strategic. But most of what shapes an agency never makes it into the meeting minutes.”In this episode, Debbie Richardson and Seth Hawthorne join Ben Slater to talk about the conversations that happen in the space between - the ones that decide whether an agency grows or stalls. From hidden tensions inside leadership teams to the real meaning of ‘strategy,’ it’s a candid look at the business behind the business.The Space Between in something quieter and more human than agency posturing. As Deb says, it’s about “the conversations we think we’re having and the conversations we should be having” and “the things that people don’t say.”About The Space BetweenThe Space Between is where honest conversations live - the ones agencies rarely make time for. Hosted by the team at MSQ, it explores the gap between what we say we do and what really drives growth, creativity, and change.Each episode brings together voices from across the agency world to unpack the space between ideas and action, leadership and reality, data and instinct. No spin, no posturing - just clarity, curiosity, and the occasional uncomfortable truth.For more on MSQ and the tools helping agencies sell and deliver strategy, visit msqindex.com.