The Sunday Problem

Marcus has run sound, livestream, and worship tech for nine years at a 180-person non-denominational church in Cape Girardeau, Missouri. He tells the story of the Sunday he watched his own daughter's baptism on a nine-inch monitor — six feet of cable away — because nobody else knew how to bring the stream back up if it dropped. In this episode: Why the "media booth of one" is the most common trap in small church ministry The elder retreat four years ago that turned a vision for reaching the unchurched into a one-man production job Asking Pastor Dale for a second camera operator — and getting "I'll pray about it" instead of a recruiting plan The pulpit volunteer ask: an 83-year-old saint who didn't know what HDMI stood for, and a guy whose work schedule changed Trying to hire a Bible college student for $50 a Sunday and running into a zero-dollar line item Easter two years ago: 240 people in the room, his son Caleb's first kids' choir solo, and the frozen stream that forced an impossible choice Sarah's three-word turning point: "Then change it" Realizing the unchurched weren't watching live — they were watching clips on their phones Tuesday at lunch Sources: Episode interview with Marcus, volunteer tech director, Cape Girardeau, MO Subscribe: sermon-clips.com Full transcript Marcus Webb: So you missed your own daughter's baptism. Marcus Holcomb: Yeah. I did. Marcus Webb: Walk me through that morning. Where were you? Marcus Holcomb: Behind the board. Same place I've been every Sunday for nine years. The cameras were rolling, the livestream was up, and Pastor Dale was in the water with Hannah and... I watched it on the monitor. Marcus Webb: On the monitor. Marcus Holcomb: Six feet of cable away from my own kid. I could see her face on a nine-inch screen and I couldn't leave because if the stream drops, nobody else knows how to bring it back up. Marcus Webb: Nobody. Marcus Holcomb: Nobody. That's the part that still gets me. Marcus Webb: Marcus, for folks who don't know you, tell me about your church. Where are we? Marcus Holcomb: Cape Girardeau, Missouri. Non-denominational, about a hundred and eighty on a good Sunday. We're not a megachurch, we're not tiny, we're that awkward middle where everyone assumes someone else is handling it. Marcus Webb: And you've been the tech guy how long? Marcus Holcomb: Nine years officially. Probably eleven if you count when I was just helping out. Marcus Webb: How'd you end up there? Marcus Holcomb: The way everybody ends up there. I knew which end of an XLR cable went where, and the guy before me moved to Tennessee. Marcus Webb: That's the call to ministry, right there. Marcus Holcomb: That's the call. Nobody else raised their hand. Marcus Webb: So you're running sound, you're running the livestream, you're doing worship part-time. When did leadership start pushing for a bigger online presence? Marcus Holcomb: Probably four years ago. We had this elder retreat, and somebody came back with the idea that we needed to reach the unchurched in our community. Which, amen, right? Great vision. Marcus Webb: Sure. Marcus Holcomb: But then it became, we need a better livestream, we need clips for social, we need a second camera angle, we need lower thirds, we need... and every one of those needs landed on my desk. Marcus Webb: Did you push back? Marcus Holcomb: I tried. I sat down with Pastor Dale and I said, look, I need a second camera operator. I need two backup volunteers I can train. Otherwise this is going to break, and it's going to break on a Sunday morning, and it's going to be me getting the phone call. Marcus Webb: What'd he say? Marcus Holcomb: He said he'd pray about it. Marcus Webb: Okay. Marcus Holcomb: Which I love him for, I do. But prayer and a recruiting plan are not the same document. Marcus Webb: That's a t-shirt. Marcus Holcomb: It really is. Marcus Webb: So what'd you try? Because I know you, you didn't just sit there. Marcus Holcomb: No, I went through every option. First I tried the volunteer ask from the pulpit. You know the one, hey church, we need help in the media booth, come see Marcus after service. Marcus Webb: How'd that go? Marcus Holcomb: Two people came up. One was eighty-three years old and a saint, but she didn't know what HDMI stood for. The other one came twice and then his work schedule changed. Marcus Webb: That's so common. Marcus Holcomb: It's the most common thing in small church ministry. The ask goes out, the willing come, but the willing aren't always the trained, and you don't have time to train them because you're doing the job they'd be helping with. Marcus Webb: The whole catch-22. Marcus Holcomb: That's the whole thing. Marcus Webb: What was next? Marcus Holcomb: I tried hiring out. I went to leadership and I said, look, if we can't get volunteers, can we pay somebody fifty bucks a Sunday to run a second camera? Just a college kid from the Bible school down the road. Marcus Webb: And? Marcus Holcomb: Budget. Always the budget. They said the vision was the online presence, but the line item was zero. Marcus Webb: Vision without budget is just a wish. Marcus Holcomb: Write that one down too. Marcus Webb: So where did it actually break? Marcus Holcomb: Easter two years ago. We had probably two hundred and forty people in the room, biggest Sunday of the year. I'd been up till one in the morning building the slide deck. My oldest, Caleb, was singing in the kids' choir for the first time. Marcus Webb: Oh no. Marcus Holcomb: And the stream froze. Right in the middle of his song. I had to choose between fixing the stream or watching my son sing, and I... I fixed the stream. Marcus Webb: Marcus. Marcus Holcomb: My wife filmed it on her phone. I've watched that phone video probably forty times. It's not the same. Marcus Webb: That's the moment. Marcus Holcomb: That was the moment. I drove home that night and I told Sarah, I said, I can't keep doing this. Something has to change or I have to step down, and if I step down there's nobody. Marcus Webb: What did she say? Marcus Holcomb: She said, then change it. Don't quit, change it. Marcus Webb: She sounds like a wise woman. Marcus Holcomb: She's the smart one in this marriage, no question. Marcus Webb: So what shifted? Because clearly something did, or we wouldn't be having this conversation. Marcus Holcomb: A couple things happened almost at the same time. First, I stopped trying to do everything live. Marcus Webb: Say more. Marcus Holcomb: For nine years I'd been treating Sunday morning like it had to be a broadcast production. Multi-cam, switched live, everything perfect in re...

Marcus has run media at a 180-person Southern Baptist church in Cleveland, Tennessee for six years — cameras, slides, audio, livestream, the works. In this conversation he gets honest about the eleven-minute announcement block, flat viewership, and the Sunday afternoons he lost trying to clip sermons by hand. In this episode: Why he raised his hand for the soundboard in 2020 — and is still holding it six years later The eleven-minute pre-sermon announcement block and the livestream chat that bails before the message starts Flat viewership: 40-50 live viewers a week, two years without growth, and the post-Easter gut punch Asking the pastor to move the message ahead of announcements — and the "you want to move the pulpit?" reaction Three months of after-church sermon clipping: four to five hours every Sunday on OBS, captions, thumbnails, and scheduling Clips at 200-300 views proved the idea worked — but the math on his time didn't The October he skipped a week, then a month, then the pastor asking "what happened to those little videos?" The gap between what a pastor sees (a 30-second clip) and what a volunteer media director actually does Subscribe: sermon-clips.com Full transcript Marcus Webb: ...eleven minutes. Eleven. Of announcements. Marcus Tillerson: Eleven minutes, Marcus. And that's a good week. Marcus Webb: Before the message even starts. Marcus Tillerson: Before anybody says the word "scripture," yeah. By the time we get to the sermon, half the livestream chat has dropped off, and then the pastor walks past me Monday morning and goes, "Marcus, why aren't the young folks watching?" Marcus Webb: And that lands on you. Marcus Tillerson: That lands on me. Somehow the lighting, the lobby announcements, the choir mics, the fact that we don't reach anybody under thirty-five... all of that is a Marcus problem. Marcus Webb: How long you been running media for the church? Marcus Tillerson: Going on six years now. I started because nobody else would touch the soundboard. You know how it goes. Somebody asks for a volunteer, everybody looks at their shoes, and I just... raised my hand. Marcus Webb: The classic Baptist hand-raise. Marcus Tillerson: The one you regret for six years. Marcus Webb: How big is the congregation? Marcus Tillerson: We're about a hundred and eighty on a Sunday. Cleveland, Tennessee. Southern Baptist. Sweet folks. I mean it, sweet folks. But we are not a megachurch and we are not pretending to be. Marcus Webb: And you're doing cameras, slides, audio... Marcus Tillerson: Cameras, slides, audio, livestream, and whatever the pastor decides on Saturday night he wants on the screen Sunday morning. Which is its own ministry. Marcus Webb: Walk me through a Sunday for you. Marcus Tillerson: Sure. I get there at seven. Power up the board, check the wireless packs because somebody ALWAYS leaves one on, the batteries are dead, you know the drill. I run a sound check with whoever shows up. The livestream goes live at ten fifty-five. Marcus Webb: And then? Marcus Tillerson: And then I sit in the back, in that little media closet we built out of a coat room, and I watch the numbers. I watch the live viewers. Forty, fifty people on a good week. And it never grows. Marcus Webb: Never? Marcus Tillerson: I mean, it goes up two, down two. It's flat. Has been flat for two years. Marcus Webb: When did you first realize it was flat? Like, when did it click? Marcus Tillerson: Probably... it was after Easter last year. Easter we get a bump, right, we always get a bump. And the bump was smaller than the year before. And I sat there Monday morning with my coffee looking at the analytics page and I thought, "We're not reaching anybody new. We are reaching the same forty people." Marcus Webb: That's a gut punch. Marcus Tillerson: It was. Because I've been pouring into this for six years. New camera, better mics, I learned OBS, I learned the streaming software, I learned color correction on YouTube videos at midnight. And the needle... did not move. Marcus Webb: So what'd you do? Marcus Tillerson: First thing I did, I went to the pastor. I said, "I think the issue is the front end. People click on a Sunday service, they get eleven minutes of announcements, and they bounce. They never hear the message." Marcus Webb: What'd he say? Marcus Tillerson: He said the announcements were important to the congregation. Which... they ARE. I'm not knocking him. The widow's lunch matters. The youth car wash matters. Marcus Webb: Sure. Marcus Tillerson: But somebody scrolling on their phone Sunday afternoon does not care about the youth car wash. They want to know if there's something for them in the message. Marcus Webb: Right. Marcus Tillerson: So I asked, could we put the message first on the livestream and the announcements after, and he looked at me like I'd asked to rearrange the pews. Marcus Tillerson: I'm serious. Like I had suggested we move the pulpit. Marcus Webb: Okay so the front end was a no-go. What was next? Marcus Tillerson: I tried the back end. I thought, alright, if I can't fix the live experience, I'll take the message after the fact and chop it up. Put highlights on Facebook, on the church YouTube, maybe TikTok if I got brave. Marcus Webb: Did you? Marcus Tillerson: I did. For about three months. I'd come home Sunday afternoon, eat lunch, and then I'd sit in front of my laptop for four, five hours pulling clips out of an hour-long service. Marcus Webb: Four or five hours. Marcus Tillerson: Every Sunday. After leading worship tech all morning. My wife was THRILLED. Marcus Webb: I bet. Marcus Tillerson: She was not. She was patient, she's a saint, but you could feel it. Sunday was gone. Just gone. Marcus Webb: And were the clips working? Marcus Tillerson: That's the worst part. They were doing okay. Better than the full service. A clip would get two hundred views, three hundred, sometimes more if the pastor said something that hit. So I knew the idea was right. Marcus Webb: The idea was right but the math was wrong. Marcus Tillerson: The math was wrong. I cannot give up my Sundays for the rest of my life. I have two kids. I have a job. I am not a full-time media producer, I'm a guy who said yes to a soundboard in 2020. Marcus Webb: So where did it break for you? Marcus Tillerson: It broke in October. I had a week where work was heavy, my daughter had a recital, and I just... didn't do the clips. Skipped a week. And then I skipped the next week. And then I felt SO guilty about skipping that I avoided the whole thing for a month. Marcus Webb: Mm. Marcus Tillerson: And during that month, the pastor pulled me aside after service and said, "Hey Marcus, what happened to those little videos? Those were good. We need to be reaching younger people." Marcus Webb: Oof. Marcus Tillerson: