Episodes
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Flourishing and the Science of Learning?
Drew Perkins talks with Pamela Snow, Distinguished Professor of Cognitive Psychology in the School of Education at La Trobe University and co-founder of the Science of Language and Reading (SOLAR) Lab, about flourishing versus learning, where explicit instruction and inquiry each belong, and why...
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Restoring Enlightenment Civics
Drew Perkins hosts a live conversation at the Festival of Education with Lianne Cottrell of the Jack Miller Center, Ronnie London of the Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression (FIRE) and Rachel Humphries of the Bill of Rights Institute on restoring Enlightenment civics. The panel asks…
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Can We Move Beyond the Pedagogy Wars?
Drew Perkins hosts a live panel at the Festival of Education with Elise Stephenson, Patrice Bain and Valentina Devid on the so-called pedagogy wars between explicit instruction and inquiry. Recorded in front of an audience, the conversation asks what role knowledge plays in critical thinking…
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What is the Word Mapping Project?
Drew Perkins talks with Sean Morrisey to discuss the pedagogical philosophy and curriculum design behind the Word Mapping Project. Discover how this innovative approach interweaves spelling, vocabulary, morphology, and fluency into a single manageable daily lesson for upper elementary and middle...
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Spending Smarter on Teacher Pay
Drew Perkins sits down with Heather Peske, President of the National Council on Teacher Quality (NCTQ) to examine critical strategies for teacher compensation, fiscal constraints, and strategic school funding. As school districts nationwide confront a looming fiscal crisis driven by declining...
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The History of School Choice
Drew Perkins is joined by Neal McCluskey to discuss his new book, Fighting for the Freedom to Learn. We move beyond the common narrative that school choice is a modern, free-market invention of the 1950s, instead tracing the historical roots of educational pluralism back to the colonial era.…
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Critiquing the Next Generation Science Standards
In this episode, Drew Perkins is joined by Dr. Nathan Dolenc to unpack his recent critique of the Next Generation Science Standards (NGSS), detailed in his report, Good Intentions, Bad Implementation. While acknowledging the positive intentions behind the standards, Dolenc argues that the current...
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Balancing Explicit Instruction with Inquiry-Based Math
In this episode, Drew Perkins talks with veteran high school math teacher and author Kristen Smith to discuss her evolution from a more traditional approach to math teaching, in the style of Teach Like a Champion, to one that might best be described as "teacher-led inquiry". We explore her…
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Transforming Teacher Prep
Drew Perkins talks with Ron Noble, Chief of Teacher Prep at the National Council on Teacher Quality (NCTQ) to discuss the "Transforming Teacher Prep" initiative. We explore why pre-service training often misses the mark and how prioritizing clinical practice, curriculum literacy, and the science…
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Applying Cognitive Load Theory In The Classroom
Drew Perkins welcomes math teacher and author Michael Pershan to explore the history of CLT and how he thinks about applying Cognitive Load Theory in his math teaching. Links & Resources Mentioned In This Episode Have some feedback you'd like to share? You can email me at...
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Education Tribalism, Research, & Practice
In this episode Drew Perkins talks with Haili Hughes, Associate Professor at La Trobe University in Melbourne, Australia about her work and thinking on education and teaching. More specifically, this conversation touched on matters of education tribalism, research, it's lethal mutations, and how…
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Synergizing Dialogue, Inquiry, and Cognitive Science for Powerful Knowledge Pedagogy
Drew Perkins talks with Mark Enser about his Substack piece titled, A Pedagogy for Powerful Knowledge | Why dialogue, enquiry and cognitive science aren't competing answers. This episode addresses questions like: "How to combine cognitive science with inquiry-based learning", "Differences between...
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Teaching Meaning: Beyond "Just Tell Them"
Drew Perkins talks with with author and educator Christian Moore to critically examine the "just tell them" model of instruction often championed by popular "science of learning" advocates. Drawing from his book, Teaching Meaning: What Works When Telling Isn't Enough, Moore introduces the…
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Paul Black's Legacy of Assessment for learning
In this episode of the ThoughtStretchers Education Podcast, Drew Perkins talks with leading education thinkers Dylan Wiliam, Jo Boaler, and Chris Harrison to explore the work and life of Paul Black and his profound impact on teaching and learning, especially the concept of assessment for…
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Show, Don't Just Tell: Explaining For Understanding
Drew Perkins talks with James Moore, author of Explain Yourself: Master the Art of Explanation in the Age of AI, about how educators and communicators can effectively teach complex concepts. Links & Resources Mentioned In This Episode Have some feedback you'd like to share? You can email me at...
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Reimagining Our Pedagogy Conversations
Drew Perkins talks with education journalist and author Holly Korbey to explore the complex intersection of cognitive science and progressive pedagogy. While the "Reading Wars" often dominate headlines, Drew and Holly dig deeper into the underlying tensions between explicit, knowledge-rich...
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Is The 'What & How' We Teach Math All Wrong?
Drew Perkins welcomes back Ted Dintersmith to discuss the urgent need to move away from an education system obsessed with standardized testing and toward one that empowers students to do real, meaningful work. In his new book, Aftermath, and documentary, Multiple Choice, Dintersmith argues that…
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Biologically Primary vs. Secondary Learning With David Geary
Drew Perkins talks with David Geary, a cognitive developmental and evolutionary psychologist and Curator's Professor in the Department of Psychological Sciences at the University of Missouri. They dive into the foundations of evolutionary educational psychology, exploring how our evolutionary...
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School Choice, Competition vs. Spending
Drew Perkins welcomes Patrick Graff, Senior Fellow at the American Federation for Children, to discuss his recent research analyzing 15 years of Florida's tax-credit scholarship program. Graff presents a compelling case for why "competition effects" may be significantly more cost-effective than...
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Moving From Formative Assessment To Action
Drew Perkins talks with Valentina Devid to explore why the term "formative assessment" often fails in practice and how shifting the focus to Formative Action can lead to more sustainable, durable learning. Valentina shares her journey from a history teacher seeking "intellectual nourishment" to a...
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Engineering the Aha, What's Missing From Inquiry
Drew Perkins talks with Brendan Lee, a primary school teacher, host of the Knowledge for Teachers Podcast, and advocate for evidence-informed pedagogy. Brendan shares his transition from an initial belief in unguided project-based learning to a more structured approach rooted in the Science of...
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John Sweller On The Foundations And Future Of Cognitive Load Theory
Drew Perkins speaks with John Sweller, Emeritus Professor of Educational Psychology at the University of New South Wales, and Oliver Caviglioli, information designer and former special school principal, about the foundations and future of Cognitive Load Theory (CLT). As one of the most…
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Modern Learning And The Paradox Of Edtech
Drew Perkins talks with Brian Lamb, founder of Swivl, about the "Paradox of Edtech" and how modern digital interfaces are changing the way we learn. They discuss the shift from being "data-driven" to "data-informed," the importance of "decentering" for perspective-taking, and how AI can serve as…
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10 Months At Sea, A School For Global Leadership
Drew Perkins welcomes Emily Waugh and Gabriela Delgado de Fina, both Assistant Heads of School for the A+ World Academy. They discuss the academy's unique educational model: a 10-month voyage for 72 students aboard the Sorlandet, a fully rigged ship built in 1927. The conversation explores the...
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Failure Factory, A Warning For Public Schools
Drew Perkins talks with investigative reporter Chris Papst about his book, Failure Factory: How Baltimore City Public Schools Deprive Taxpayers and Students of a Future . Papst, a reporter for Project Baltimore, shares his deep-dive into why one of the most funded school systems in America…
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AI, Inquiry, And The Future Of Thinking
Drew Perkins welcomes Carole Geneix, Director of Teaching and Learning at Washington International School, to the podcast to discuss the evolving landscape of Artificial Intelligence in education. As schools grapple with the "AI revolution," Geneix argues that instead of fearing these tools,...
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Beyond Explicit Instruction, The Importance of Elaboration
Drew Perkins welcomes education writer and author Natalie Wexler to the podcast to discuss her latest work and the evolving conversation around explicit instruction and the "Science of Reading." While the movement has successfully brought phonics to the forefront, Wexler argues that too narrow of…
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Why Classroom Technology Harms Learning (with Jared Cooney Horvath)
Drew Perkins welcomes neuroscientist and acclaimed author Jared Cooney Horvath to dissect his new book, The Digital Delusion, which provides a rigorous, evidence-based critique of edtech. Links & Resources Mentioned In This Episode Watch on YouTube Horvath doesn't mince words, arguing that the...
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How Free Speech Builds a Better Brain With Barbara Oakley
In this episode of the ThoughtStretchers podcast, host Drew Perkins talks with Dr. Barbara Oakley, distinguished professor of engineering and co-instructor of the celebrated Learning How to Learn course, to discuss her critical opinion piece: Censorship Hurts Our Brains: Why Neuroscience Confirms...
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Knowledge-Rich Inquiry With 4QM Teaching
Drew Perkins welcomes Gary Schiffman and Jon Bassett of 4QM Teaching to the podcast to discuss their new US History curriculum and the principles behind their innovative Four Question Method. Links & Resources Mentioned In This Episode Watch on YouTube This conversation explores the gap between...
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Memorizing History Facts, So What?
Is the core of teaching history about memorizing history facts, or is it about critical thinking? And what is the role of knowledge-rich inquiry in the history classroom? Drew Perkins is joined by history educators Lauren Brown, Jonathan Dallimore (author of Teaching History: A Practical Guide…
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Are Leveled Readers Hurting Student Growth?
Drew Perkins is joined by guest co-host, fourth-grade teacher Melinda Karshner, for a critical conversation with Timothy Shanahan, Distinguished Professor Emeritus at the University of Illinois at Chicago and former Director of Reading for Chicago Public Schools. They discuss the core arguments…
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Change Starts Here with Shane Leaning
Drew Perkins talks with Shane Leaning about his new book, Change Starts Here: What If Everything Your School Needed Was Right in Front of You? Links & Resources Mentioned In This Episode Watch on YouTube
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Digital Literacy, Civics, And Surveillance
Drew Perkins talks with Heidi Boghosian about her book, Cyber Citizens: Saving Democracy with Digital Literacy. Links & Resources Mentioned In This Episode
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A Critical Look at Educational Research
Drew Perkins talks with George Lilley, a veteran teacher from Australia, about his critiques of the work of John Hattie, and the Science of Learning. Links & Resources Mentioned In This Episode
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NASSP Leadership, Policy, And Student Well-Being
Drew Perkins talks with return guest, Ronn Nozoe, CEO of the National Association of Secondary School Principals (NASSP). Links & Resources Mentioned In This Episode
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When Politics Hijacks Education
Drew Perkins talks with Vladimir Kogan about his new book, No Adult Left Behind: How Politics Hijacks Education Policy and Hurts Kids. Links & Resources Mentioned In This Episode
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A Dynamic Equilibrium Of Research And Practice
Drew Perkins talks with Rod Naquin about balancing educational research with practice as he returns to the classroom after 7 years doing educational leadership work. Links & Resources Mentioned In This Episode
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Bridging Gaps With Mental Models
Drew Perkins talks with Jim Heal and Rebekah Berlin about their new book, Mental Models: How understanding the mind can transform the way you work and learn. Links & Resources Mentioned In This Episode
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"Soul-Destroying" Or Empowering Pedagogy?
Drew Perkins talks with Karen Vaites about navigating educational tribalism, the "Science of Learning," and the impact of knowledge-rich, coherent curricula on student outcomes. Links & Resources Mentioned In This Episode
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Strategic Leadership
Drew Perkins talks with Rachel Curtis and Liz City, co-authors of the book Leading Strategically: Achieving Ambitious Goals in Education. Links & Resources Mentioned In This Episode
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Using A Prohuman Curriculum To Build Character And Civic Virtue
Drew Perkins talks with Christina LaRose about her work with the Prohuman Foundation to develop a curriculum focused on learning character through literature. Links & Resources Mentioned In This Episode
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Bridging The Science of Learning And Inquiry With Socratic Experience
Drew Perkins talks with Michael Strong, founder of The Socratic Experience, a K–12 high-touch virtual school that equips students through Socratic dialogue, 1:1 mentoring, and creative and entrepreneurial projects. Links & Resources Mentioned In This Episode
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Is The Science of Learning 'Soul Destroying'?
Drew Perkins talks with teacher-educator Rachael Jefferson about her Education HQ article from an interview that is critical of the Science of Learning movement. Links & Resources Mentioned In This Episode
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How To Have Nuanced Conversation
Drew Perkins talks with Shane Leaning as a guest on his Education Leaders podcast about how to have conversations that focus on nuance, complexity, and understanding. Links & Resources Mentioned In This Episode
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AI In Education
Drew Perkins talks with Songyee Yoon, author and founder and managing partner of the venture capital firm Principal Venture Partners (PVP), where she focuses on investing in AI-native companies transforming industries. Links & Resources Mentioned In This Episode
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Powerful Knowledge And A Capabilities Curriculum
Drew Perkins talks with teacher and author, Richard Bustin, about his book What Are We Teaching? Links & Resources Mentioned In This Episode
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Science Of Learning, PBL, And Inquiry: A Salon Conversation
Drew Perkins is joined by Andrew Watson, Dr. Cindy Nebel, and Fox Demoisey to discuss the intersections between the Science of Learning, project-based learning, and inquiry. Links & Resources Mentioned In This Episode
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Anti-DEI And Enlightenment Liberal Principles
Drew Perkins talks with Tim Minella, Senior Constitutionalism Fellow at The Goldwater Institute, about their work to eliminate DEI in higher education. Links & Resources Mentioned In This Episode
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DEI: Expansive or Restrictive? A Salon Conversation
Drew Perkins is joined by educators and DEI practitioners Carlos Hoyt, Daryl Sinclair, and Nunana Nyomi for a salon-style conversation about the complexities and nuances of DEI. Links & Resources Mentioned In This Episode
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Dialectic Conversations For Intellectually Rigorous Educators
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ThoughtStretchers Education
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