The Trauma-Informed Lawyer
by Myrna McCallum
What if the way we were trained to work with people is actually causing harm?Hosted by Myrna McCallum — Métis lawyer, trauma educator, and speaker — The Trauma-Informed Lawyer is for anyone who works with people: lawyers, social workers, educators, healthcare providers, first responders, advocates, and beyond.Through inspiring interviews, courageous conversations, and honest commentary, Myrna and her guests explore the human side of professional practice — and go deeper, into the collective wounds that shape us all. These conversations examine trauma, liberation, and healing not just as individual experiences, but as communal and cultural ones, informed by Indigenous and racialized ways of knowing and being.This is the education in trauma, resilience, compassion, vicarious trauma, boundaries, and collective healing that no training program ever gave you.Because doing good work in the world starts with understanding people — and that requires understanding trauma.Artwork titled, "M
Episodes
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The Road to Liberation with Resmaa Menakem
Resmaa Menakem, MSW, LICSW, SEP, is a healer, therapist, author, and racialized trauma specialist whose work focuses on trauma, body-centered psychotherapy, communal healing, and cultural transformation. He is the author of the New York Times bestseller My Grandmother's Hands: Racialized Trauma…
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Building a Culture of Care: Compassion, Community & Law with River Shannon
About River Shannon River Shannon is a lawyer, a Soto Zen priest, and a deeply committed member of the queer and trans community she serves. River is the Manager of Legal Services at QMUNITY, where she provides legal support to queer, trans, and Two-Spirit people across British Columbia.…
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Curiosity as Resistance: Nonviolent Communication with Leonie Smith
In this episode, Leonie and I explore: How systems of oppression show up in the everyday spaces we work and live in, and what it takes to name them honestly Identity and the dominant culture — what gets placed on us as Black and Brown people, and the ongoing work of pushing back and reclaiming…
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Emotional Justice, Racial Healing and the Work We Must Do with Esther A. Armah
In this episode Esther Armah and Myrna discuss her Emotional Justice framework. In this conversation, they get into the courage that racial healing actually requires, and who it asks the most of. Esther is a journalist, playwright, and global emotional justice advocate joining us from Accra…
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Revolutionary Love: My Conversation with Dr. Samah Jabr
In this powerful and unflinching conversation, Dr. Samah Jabr explains the psychological realities of Palestinian life under occupation in Gaza. We move beyond headlines to examine the lived experience of genocide, collective trauma, and the systematic use of brutality, torture, and humiliation…
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Debriefing Justice as Trauma with Ally & Mariana
In this episode, I’m joined by my team—Ally and Mariana—for a candid debrief after our recent conference. We take you behind the scenes of what it really took to bring this gathering to life. We share: The moments that stood out most—the powerful, the unexpected, and the deeply moving Some of the...
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There Is No Healing or Justice Without the Liberation of Children: In Conversation with Leslie Priscilla
In this deeply honest, vulnerable, courageous and inter-generational conversation, I am joined by Leslie Priscilla of Latinx Parenting, my daughter Ally Hrbacek, Mariana Trujillo-Lezama, and her mother Claudia Lezama. Together, we explore a powerful and necessary truth: there is no healing or...
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Love and Healing Through Art and Storytelling with Shain Jackson
In this intimate and wide-ranging conversation, Myrna sits down with her best friend Shain Jackson for a soulful exploration of love, art, healing, spirituality, and relationship—with all the honesty, laughter, and tenderness that only a lifelong friendship allows. Together, they reflect on how...
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Rest, Repair & Nervous System Regulation with James of Soma Body Health Toronto
In this powerful episode of The Trauma-Informed Lawyer Podcast, Myrna welcomes James, the somatic practitioner behind Soma Reset Toronto and the viral TikTok account Nervous System Care Toronto, where he has become a trusted voice on trauma, embodiment, and nervous system regulation. James has a...
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Leveling Up: Moving Beyond Trauma-Informed Practice
Season 4 of The Trauma-Informed Lawyer Podcast launches with an invitation — and a challenge — to everyone working in law and leadership. In this episode, Myrna shares insights from her talk to judges on how trauma, culture, and integrity intersect in the pursuit of justice. She reframes the...
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Unbroken: Angela Sterritt on Survival, Storytelling, and Holding onto Hope
Angela Sterritt is an award-winning Gitxsan woman and former journalist who has been recognized for her groundbreaking reporting on Indigenous issues. Her memoir Unbroken has been hailed as both heartbreaking and inspiring, weaving her own story of survival with broader systemic patterns of...
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Reflections from Justice as Trauma 2025: If Not You, Then Who?
In this episode, I bring listeners back to the Justice as Trauma Conference held last week in Vancouver, by sharing a compilation of feedback and testimonials from attendees. Their reflections highlight the deep impact of the conference and the importance of integrating trauma-informed and...
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The Willingness to Adapt: Jordan Assaraf and the Ukraine Airlines Case
In this episode, I sit down with personal injury lawyer Jordan Assaraf to discuss his role as co-counsel for the plaintiffs in the Ukraine Airlines case. Jordan shares his insights on the challenges of advocating for victims of large-scale tragedies and how his willingness to adapt has shaped his...
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Resilience, Compassionate Communication & Healing with Nkem Ndefo
In this powerful episode, we welcome the brilliant Nkem Ndefo, founder of Lumos Transforms and creator of The Resilience Toolkit. Nkem is a visionary leader in the fields of trauma-informed care, resilience, and organizational healing. Together, we explore the intersections of compassionate...
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Psychedelic Assisted Therapy with Heather Hart
Heather Hart, host of the I'm Human Too podcast and Spokane area therapist stops in to chat with me about psychedelic assisted therapy. For more info on psychedelic assisted therapy or to find a therapist, visit maps.org and https://firesideproject.org/ And be sure to check out Heather's podcast:...
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You Are the Medicine: a Conversation with Asha Frost
Today's conversation is with Asha Frost, published author, speaker, spiritual mentor and modern day medicine woman. To learn more about Asha, please check out her website: www.ashafrost.com To learn more about the Justice as Trauma Conference, visit: www.myrnamccallum.co/jat2025 You can learn…
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Racial Trauma and the Rush to Innocence: a Conversation with Robert S. Wright
Exploring Racial Trauma and Transforming Justice with Robert Seymour Wright. Join Myrna McCallum, a Métis Cree lawyer and passionate advocate for trauma-informed lawyering, in this compelling episode of The Trauma-Informed Lawyer podcast. Myrna sits down with Robert Seymour Wright, a queer…
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Once Were Warriors: In Memory of Ty (aka Clovis) Iron
This episode is emotional, raw, real and it isn't my regular content and deals with heavy subject matter including addiction, death, overdose, suicide, self-harm, sexual abuse, residential schools and my Indigenous lived experience. Listen with care. Seek support at 988 if you are in crisis…
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Service Without Sacrifice with Dimple Dhabalia
Dimple Dhabalia began her career as a lawyer but after a stint at the Attorney General's office in Denver, she found her calling as an asylum officer. Working for almost two decades at the crossroads of the government and humanitarian sectors, Dimple found her job fulfilling, but it also led to...
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Healing Sexual Harm Through Restorative Justice: a Conversation with Marlee Liss
In 2019, Marlee Liss's sexual assault case became the first in North America to get resolved in a restorative justice process instead of ending up in a criminal trial. Today, Marlee Liss is a restorative justice advocate, award-winning speaker, and embodiment coach. Her story is a testament that...
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[From Indictment: the Criminal Justice System on Trial] Courtroom to Campfire: Harold Johnson's Final Public Lecture for Indigenous Justice
Today's episode is a special one. I am sharing an episode of Ben Perrin's podcast, Indictment: the Criminal Justice System on Trial which can be found here: https://indictment.simplecast.com/ In the most recent episode of Indictment, Ben shares Harold Johnson's final public talk - and what a gift...
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Unpacking Restorative Leadership and Collective Healing: A Conversation with Louise Marra
Louise Marra is a systems healer and founder of Spirited Leadership and Unity House. By coaching companies and NGOs across sectors in New Zealand, Louise aims to create a space for what she terms "walking restorers." These individuals can foster new relationships and promote practices that help...
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Exploring Complex Trauma for People of Colour: A Conversation with Natalie Gutierrez
Natalie Gutierrez, author of The Pain We Carry, Healing from Complex PTSD for People of Color, is a critical POC voice in a wellness space dominated by white trauma experts. Through her personal lens and professional lens as a Puerto Rican complex trauma therapist, Natalie explains how historical...
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Putting the Criminal Justice System on Trial: A Conversation with Benjamin Perrin
The justice system in Canada is broken. It traumatizes people who go through it and leaves them worse off. But how can we change a system that refuses to transform itself? Today, I talk with Benjamin Perrin, a law professor at the University of British Columbia Allard School of Law. We talk about...
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Kisâkihitin nitanis: Truth & Reconciliation Day 2023
Kisâkihitin, nitanis means "I love you, my daughter" however many of my people also accept the interpretation, "I love you, my girl". This is a personal story about my mom and I. Her name was Judy Marilyn McCallum. This story is my contribution to National Truth and Reconciliation Day, 2023. One...
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Safety Denied: The Lives of Indigenous Women in Canada
Ret. Police Officer Dan Jones and I discuss the disturbing trend of dehumanizing Indigenous women in Canada. The most recent case in point: the refusal of the Manitoba premiere to search for the remains of Marcedes Myran and Morgan Harris. This episode may be triggering for some as we discuss...
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LGBTQ2S+ Visibility on the Bench
What does it mean to be visible in a job where you need to remain impartial? Today on the show, I speak with Michael Sonberg, a retired NYC judge who was one of the founding members of the International Association of LGBTQ+ Judges. We talk about Michael’s experiences as an openly gay judge and…
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What Does Truth & Reconciliation Mean To You?
This truth and reconciliation episode with my daughter, Alicia, and Dr. Judy Jaunzems-Fernuk, is inspired by a recent event which transpired at a local Women of Distinction awards ceremony in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan. You can learn more about Myrna and her work at: www.myrnamccallum.ca
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LoveBack: Healing Indigenous Trauma with Vina Brown
Myrna's conversation with Vina Brown of Copper Canoe Woman Creations will uplift and inspire you. Vina Brown is a force, a healer, a helper, an artist and a successful Indigenous business owner. This conversation explores healing trauma for Indigenous people including the long-silenced/secret…
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Am I Safe with You?
Myrna discusses why psychological safety is an imperative in all our relationships and invites listeners to prioritize the same. She also shares a recent experience where no safety was present or promised, as well as, an entirely different experience with a group of Indigenous people who knew...
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Retreat, Regulate and Repair with Myrna and Dr. Dhall
Season 3 is here thanks to a generous gift from the BC Law Foundation! Thank you BC Law Foundation. Dr. Amar Dhall is back for round 2 to talk about introception, bio-hacking the nervous system, the importance of trauma-informed practice, emotional intelligence and to share details on our…
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The Gift of Grief and Gratitude
Myrna recaps 2022 and highlights holiday depression, suicidal ideation, grief, gratitude, Gabor Mate and the healing we need in the legal profession. Caution: Myrna also drops a couple F bombs. You can learn more about Myrna and her work at: www.myrnamccallum.ca
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How We Teach is How They Will Practice: a Conversation with Natalie Netzel
Natalie Netzel of Mitchell Hamline Law School explains why trauma-informed lawyering is the way forward for law schools, legal educators and future lawyers. You can learn more about Myrna and her work at: www.myrnamccallum.ca
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Boundaries: a TLABC Talk Given at Whistler BC
Bonus episode. Myrna gave a talk to the women of the Trial Lawyers Association of BC in Whistler, BC on October 22, 2022. She discussed boundaries, self-regulation, the consequences of never saying no and feeling like a smeagol in a room full of frodos. Enjoy! You can learn more about Myrna and…
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Small Doses at High Frequency: A Conversation with Justice Patrice Band
Ontario Court of Justice Patrice Band discusses trauma in the courtroom and his decision in R. v. Marratt which is the first of its kind to comment on vicarious trauma in the courtroom in the context of CP cases. This episode is Justice Band's call for everyone in the legal profession to learn…
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The Upside Down World of Trauma
This is an emotional episode which discusses Indian Residential Schools, child rape, the memories that haunt us and the hard stories we have to tell. It also focuses on healing and empathy and the choices we must make in order to heal. This episode also offers listeners ideas on how they can...
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Community is Key to Healing
This episode discusses the recent murders which occurred on James Smith Cree Nation and the town of Weldon in Saskatchewan. The focus of this conversation with Dan Jones is primarily on the subject of racism and stereotyping Indigenous communities as we have sometimes seen in the justice system,...
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From Retribution to Restoration: A Conversation about Restorative Justice with Vanessa Slater
"The retributive focus of the colonial legal system results in much trauma, particularly with respect to criminal justice. The enlightenment that comes with becoming trauma-informed can assist lawyers, decision makers and others involved in addressing conflict to overcome deep-rooted systemic...
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Emotional Intelligence & the Art of Living: a Conversation with Dr. Amar Dhall
Dr. Amar Dhall shares his wisdom, insights and data on emotional intelligence and the art of living. The conversation is critical for those in occupations which value IQ over EQ. You can learn more about Myrna and her work at: www.myrnamccallum.ca
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Trauma Informed Justice: The Course
Myrna and a few of her friends and colleagues are delivering a course on trauma-informed justice which will be delivered via Zoom Events from July 20-22. This course is for everyone, not just lawyers. This course is open for registration. Register today at www.myrnamccallum.co You can learn more...
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Dan and Nicole: A Story of Hope and Healing in the Criminal Justice System and Beyond
Dan Jones and Nicole Whiskeyjack share their story of hope and healing in the criminal justice system. Nicole was sent to prison for kidnapping and Dan was the officer who arrested her. Many years later, Dan has become Nicole's father and the two of them educate law makers, law students, police...
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Closing Keynote for the Law Society of Ontario's 16th Family Law Summit
This episode is a reproduction of Myrna's closing Keynote for the 16th Annual Family Law Summit sponsored by the Law Society of Ontario and their Continuing Professional Development Department, originally delivered via Zoom on March 29, 2022. You can learn more about Myrna and her work at:...
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The Duty to Do Better: The Law Professor Version
This episode reflects on an earlier episode called, The Duty to Do Better: The Law Student Version. Law professors and instructors offer their perspectives on teaching in a trauma-informed way, lawyer and law student mental health, and modern legal education in Canada and the USA. This…
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To Dehumanize is to Traumatize: My Conversation with Fritzi Horstman of the Compassion Prison Project
Fritzi Horstman of the Compassion Prison Project discusses prisoners, policing, trauma, ACES, intergenerational trauma, the justice system, racism, and how our humanity can get lost in our occupations. This episode references acts of violence. You can learn more about Myrna and her work at:...
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The Duty to Decolonize the (Criminal) Justice System: Advice from Chantel Sparklingeyes
Chantel Sparklingeyes offers criminal court actors advice on how to decolonize the unjust legal system known for its dehumanizing practices when working with Indigenous people as victims, survivors, offenders and witnesses. CW: This talk covers subjects of sexual abuse, IPV and intergenerational...
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Lawyers as Humble Healers: A Solo Episode
This solo episode explores concepts of healing, humility, humanity and collective trauma put forward by Thomas Hubl, Sherri Mitchell, CJ Robert Bauman, US Supreme Court Justice Warren Burger and Nelson Mandela. You can learn more about Myrna and her work at: www.myrnamccallum.ca
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A Court of Refuge: Judge Ginger Lerner-Wren of America's First Mental Health Court
Judge Ginger Lerner-Wren describes her pathway to creating the first Mental Health Court in America and offers compelling insight into how education, understanding, compassion and dignity can transform lives for lawyers, judges and defendants who appear in her courtroom. This episode discusses...
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Honouring Resilience: A Conversation with Supt. Scott Jones of the Edmonton Police Service
This episode includes a discussion about mental health, wellness, vicarious trauma, mindfulness, yoga and collective care practices among police officers within the Edmonton Police Service. You can learn more about Myrna and her work at: www.myrnamccallum.ca
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Ahkameyimok (Don't Give Up): One Survival Story - A Truth & Reconciliation Day Bonus Episode
CW: This episode mentions suicide, sexual abuse of children and other acts of violence. You can learn more about Myrna and her work at: www.myrnamccallum.ca
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Life Interrupted: Maria Mitousis on Survival, Resilience & Mental Health Among Lawyers
CW: This episode discusses violence and victimization. You can learn more about Myrna and her work at: www.myrnamccallum.ca
About this show
What if the way we were trained to work with people is actually causing harm?Hosted by Myrna McCallum — Métis lawyer, trauma educator, and speaker — The Trauma-Informed Lawyer is for anyone who works with people: lawyers, social workers, educators, healthcare providers, first responders, advocates, and beyond.Through inspiring interviews, courageous conversations, and honest commentary, Myrna and her guests explore the human side of professional practice — and go deeper, into the collective wounds that shape us all. These conversations examine trauma, liberation, and healing not just as individual experiences, but as communal and cultural ones, informed by Indigenous and racialized ways of knowing and being.This is the education in trauma, resilience, compassion, vicarious trauma, boundaries, and collective healing that no training program ever gave you.Because doing good work in the world starts with understanding people — and that requires understanding trauma.Artwork titled, "M
Hosted by
Myrna McCallum