Two by Two (Private)

The old way to grow as a product designer meant doing the grunt work (button variants, banner sizes, edges cases) until your instincts calibrated.In the new world, AI does the grunt work, faster and cheaper than any junior designer ever could.And the numbers reveal this crisis : UX job postings fell 73% between 2022 and 2023. Less than 5% of tech companies hire entry-level design talent.Rapid changes are afoot and we need some reorientationSo, Praveen met Jay Datta—founder of Designup, Southeast Asia’s largest design conference, and 25 years in design at Deutsche Bank, Adobe, Flipkart, and Makemytrip—and Shreyas Satish, founder of Ownpath, who has spent years trying to rebuild the apprenticeship model from outside the system to discuss that question to answer a big question: how does a 22-year-old build judgement now? 

Eighteen months ago, Hyrox did not exist in India. Last month, 8,200 people paid Rs 9,000 each to do a sled push at the Bangalore International Exhibition Centre. Attendees described the event as a “carnival”, and for several weeks, everyone was talking and proudly sharing their Hyrox timings.If you’re wondering what on earth is going on, well, this episode is for you.Fitness as an event isn’t new in India. Every wave of participative fitness in India solved something the previous one couldn’t. Marathons gave the urban professional class a finish line and an identity. Crossfit gave them a tribe and a daily ritual. Both peaked, both retreated, both ended up circling the same thin, affluent cohort in Bengaluru and Mumbai. Now Hyrox has arrived, and in one season blown past anything either of those formats built in India. The question is whether Hyrox is the next iteration of the same product, or something fundamentally different.Then there’s the business side of it. Hyrox is a premium commercial format, with revenue lines through event tickets, a global licensing model, a PUMA deal, and a middleman at every layer between the participant and the finish line. That commercial stack sits on top of a culture that markets itself on community and participation. Does that accelerate the fitness ecosystem or does it extract from it?And to find out that answer, Praveen Gopal Krishnan sits with two guests:Prasanna Akela is the cofounder of Belong, a personal training studio in Bengaluru. Before Belong, Prasanna was an early growth leader at companies like CRED, Apple, and Uber India. He’s also competed at the national level in ultimate frisbee and has trained extensively in endurance and strength. He brings the operator’s view: what does someone building a fitness business in India actually see when a global format like Hyrox walks in?“I’ve not seen this culture of people at scale wanting to get better. Everybody does their first Hyrox. Nobody’s like, how do I do my second Hyrox better than my first one.”Dilip Kumar leads investments at Rainmatter*, Zerodha’s health and fitness fund, which has deployed over Rs 250 crore across dozens of investments in health and fitness—including Hyrox India, Ironman, and Devil Circuit. He’s also a serious endurance athlete with a 2:55 marathon personal best and a finisher at the Boston Marathon. He has publicly called Hyrox as India’s “2008 IPL moment” for fitness. He came to this conversation with a declared interest and a clear conviction.“99% of the people are not intrinsically motivated. The invention of all these events kind of expanded that category — and that’s where we started investing.”Prasanna is building inside the wave and Dilip is investing and betting on it. Both of them are also participants. They competed in last month’s Hyrox event at Bengaluru. The episode tries to find out how long the wave is going to last—and what might happen after that.*Zerodha’s perennial fund Rainmatter Capital is an investor in The Ken.This episode was hosted and produced by Praveen Gopal Krishnan. Rajiv C N, our resident technical producer did the audio production.

“There is no pride in this. Kya karoon (what can I do), I’m just a delivery boy.”Every time someone raises the topic of gig economy in India, the conversation follows the same script. Side A: this is exploitation. Side B: but employment. And then everyone moves on, nothing changes, and 12 million people keep showing up every morning to deliver your groceries.This episode tries to push past that script. Sid Pai, co-founder of Bengaluru-based consulting firm UK & Co., joins Praveen and Rahel to go through a new report—India’s Gig Economy: The Promise and the Paradox—based on conversations with 1,355 gig workers across Karnataka. The numbers are granular in ways you don’t usually see: working hours, screen time, savings rates, and one metric borrowed from product management that turns out to be damning. You can guess which one.The question they start with i.e. “what breaks first if things continue this way?” doesn’t have a clean answer. The more unsettling finding might be that 95% of gig workers report being satisfied with their income even when 52% of them have zero savings. Understanding why that contradiction exists, and what it’s actually holding together, is what this episode is really about.You can see the report here.-----This episode was mixed and mastered by Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer.If you liked this episode, share it with your friends, family and colleagues. And if you have thoughts on the discussion, write to us at [email protected].

What happened to the company that once understood India better than anyone else? For decades Hindustan Unilever has dominated kitchen pantries and bathroom cabinets across the country: Surf Excel in the laundry, Brooke Bond in the kitchen, Clinic Plus in the bathroom.  It was the undisputed gold standard of brand building in this country. Well, until it wasn’t. Case in point: a couple of weeks ago, a journalist shared a chart from an HSBC report on social media.The chart listed some of HUL's biggest brands — Ponds, Lux, Rin, Lifebuoy, Kissan, Surf, Glow & Lovely, Vim, Bru — and showed where each of them stood ten years ago versus today.Turns out, most of them have barely grown, if at all. Something has shifted at the company that was once India's consumption barometer. The brands that generate genuine excitement today aren't HUL brands. More often than not, they are scrappy D2C upstarts that, on paper, shouldn't stand a chance against a behemoth like HUL.In the latest episode of Two By Two, we try to answer one simple question: Are HUL's best days behind it?Two By Two hosts Praveen Gopal Krishnan and Rahel Philipose are joined by Seetharaman G, Deputy Editor at The Ken and Sandeep Nair, co-founder of marketing consultancy firm, David and Who. Both of them see this story play out in opposite ways. And that's where it gets interesting. Tune in. Read more:- Is HUL still the envy of the FMCG world?______This episode was mixed and mastered by Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer.If you liked this episode, share it with your friends, family and colleagues. And if you have thoughts on the discussion, write to us at [email protected].

"Of course BHIM is giving crazy cashbacks. That's where I pay my bills."That's not a BHIM fan but a product head at a competing UPI app.After demonetisation hit in 2016, India desperately needed a way to go cashless overnight. UPI existed but barely anyone was using it. Banks were dragging their feet and private players were too small and too few. So, NPCI (National Payments Corporation of India) built an entire payments app in weeks and put the Prime Minister behind it. BHIM clocked 10 million downloads in just 10 days. But just as quietly, NPCI put it to sleep and the private players took the bait.Fast forward to today, PhonePe and Google Pay between them own over 80% of all UPI transactions. Two American-backed companies are winning on the very road NPCI laid, while the architect has 0.8% market share on its own railway.So BHIM is back. With MS Dhoni as brand ambassador, cashbacks flying left, right and centre and a stated goal of hitting 5% market share. But can a government app out-app the giants it created? And why is it back and why now?Rahel Philipose and Praveen Gopal Krishnan sit down with Arundhati Ramanathan, deputy editor at The Ken who wrote the original BHIM story in 2017, and Abhishek Madan, co-founder of Alt Inc and former VP of product at Paytm, to find out.Read more:- The unlikely story of BHIM, the upsetter of plans by Arundhati Ramanathan (25 January 2017)- NPCI resurrects its own UPI payments app dreams with Bhim by Arundhati Ramanathan (19 March 2026)______This episode was produced by Uddantika Kashyap and mixed and mastered by Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer.If you liked this episode, share it with your friends, family and colleagues. And if you have thoughts on the discussion, write to us at [email protected].

"This is our Frankenstein. We made it. And now it's left the room." A cricketer said this about the IPL and our guest, Sharda Ugra, India's most respected cricket journalist with thirty years of covering the game, brought it to our studio. And honestly, we couldn't think of a better way to open this episode.Last week, RCB and Rajasthan Royals sold for nearly $3 billion combined. With private equity in the building, it looks like the IPL has never looked bigger, richer or more untouchable. But something is off.The broadcaster paid $6 billion for rights and is bleeding $2 billion. On the other hand, the media rights that fund 80% of every franchise's revenue are projected to flatline and the most perfect advertiser IPL ever had, real money gaming, just got banned.So we did what any sensible person would do and called Sharda.In what was honestly one of the most electric studio sessions we've had on Two by Two, Sharda brought 18 years of institutional memory while Praveen Gopal Krishnan brought the business lens and Rahel Philipose asked every question you'd want to ask if you had Sharda across from you for 90 minutes.The IPL cannot fail. But can it figure out how to succeed? That's what this episode is really about.Read more:- Sharda's 2008 India Today piece titled 'Changing the rules'.- Sumit Chakraborty's piece in The Ken titled 'What private equity sees in IPL...'.______This episode was produced by Uddantika Kashyap and mixed and mastered by Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer.If you liked this episode, share it with your friends, family and colleagues. And if you have thoughts on the discussion, write to us at [email protected].

Last week, Rapido launched Ownly, its zero commission food delivery app and went straight for Swiggy and Zomato's throat.This is the same company that dismantled the Uber-Ola duopoly with just a simpler model, cheaper rides, and a very different idea of what India actually needs.Their weapon this time is zero commission. They're betting on restaurants that are fed up, customers who want cheaper food, and a rider fleet that's already in place.So we got Kunal Khattar, the investor who backed Rapido from day one and made 88x on that bet to break down whether lightning can strike twice. We also have Gautam Balijepalli, who runs one of the largest cloud kitchen operations in India and tells us what it looks like from the restaurant side.Along with our guests, Rahel Philipose and Praveen Gopal Krishnan discuss, can Rapido steal a bite from Swiggy and Zomato? Or is food delivery a completely different beast?_________This episode of Two by Two was produced by Uddantika Kashyap and mix and mastered by Rajiv CN.If you liked this episode, please share it with your friends and family who would be interested in listening to the episode. And if you have more thoughts on the discussion, we’d love to hear your arguments as well. You can write to us at [email protected].

Last year, when Trump's tariffs blindsided the world, we called Mohit Satyanand. He made sense of the chaos before most people had even figured out what to panic about.This time, we didn't wait.A war broke out in the Middle East, the Strait of Hormuz closed, and within days India was rationing cooking gas, cancelling flights and watching the rupee slip. Everyone has an opinion, but Mohit has something rarer. He has his skin in the game. As an investor who has spent decades watching India's economy up close, his question isn't what happened. It is what it reveals about India's deepest, oldest vulnerabilities.He explains the oil dependency we've ignored for 50 years. How we have seven days of strategic reserves nobody talks about. The remittances that hold up millions of households. And the uncomfortable truth that none of this should have caught us off guard.In this episode of Two by Two, Mohit sits down with Rahel Philipose and Praveen Gopal Krishnan to answer not what is happening, but what it means for India and for how long.---------This episode of Two by Two was produced by Uddantika Kashyap.If you liked this episode, please share it with your friends and family who would be interested in listening to the episode. And if you have more thoughts on the discussion, we’d love to hear your arguments as well. You can write to us at [email protected].

Most businesses die quietly. They miss a wave, lose relevance and fade out.Healthify nearly got hit by two in quick succession. First, AI that could do what took the company years to build. Then, a drug which meant you didn't need the discipline anymore.So Rahel Philipose and Praveen Gopal Krishnan asked Tushar Vashisht, Healthify's co-founder and CEO, the uncomfortable question directly: if anyone can build an AI coach and a drug can kill your appetite, what exactly are you selling?This episode is really about three things most people don't know. One, why people who take Ozempic without a lifestyle program gain almost all the weight back within a year. Two, what actually happens to a platform business when AI replaces one entire side of it. And three, why Tushar believes his most dangerous competitor hasn't been founded yet.We were also joined by Professor R Srinivasan from IIM Bangalore, who had a very different read on whether Healthify's bet is genius or cope._____This episode was produced by Uddantika Kashyap and mixed and mastered by Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer.If you liked this episode, share it with your friends, family and colleagues. And if you have thoughts on the discussion, write to us at [email protected].

"They are not disloyal. They are unforgiving."Sector by sector, a new generation of brands is doing the same thing by ignoring millennials entirely and going straight for Gen Z. Zepto did it to Blinkit. Snabbit is doing it to Urban Company. The thesis is simple: Gen Z has no loyalty to the old guard, so steal them first and use them as a wedge to crack the rest of the market open.But is that actually true? And if you do win them, can you hold them?Our guest Adarsh Menon has put Fireside Ventures' money behind this question. His portfolio includes brands that have read this generation inside out. On the other hand Ajay Thandi built Sleepy Owl without a single marketer on the founding team and ended up with a brand Gen Z and millennials claim as their own.The most interesting thing they land on isn't about Gen Z at all. It's about aspiration and how it stopped pointing upward. This generation doesn't want to be the person above them. They want to be the person next to them. That one shift changes everything about how you build a brand.Turns out the most fickle generation might be the most loyal one you've ever had. If you deserve it. Further reading- Fireside Ventures — The Indian Consumer at 2030_______This episode was produced by Uddantika Kashyap and mix and mastered by Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer.If you liked this episode, share it with your friends, family and colleagues. And if you have thoughts on the discussion, write to us at [email protected].

Quick question: Would you give someone your money for ten years if they promised you'd get back roughly what an FD would give you? And they'd also take 2% of your money every single year, no matter what happens, plus 20% of any profits at the end.You'd laugh them out of the room, right? Well, that's venture capital.Peak XV lost three of its partners. Ashish Agarwal who backed Groww, Ishan Mittal who invested in Razorpay and Tejasvi Sharma who bet on Cred. These guys crushed it and they still walked out over "disagreements on economics and payouts."That's when we realized: this isn't a Peak XV problem but a VC industry problem that nobody wants to admit. So we brought in Mayank Bansal, a hedge fund manager who pulled the actual numbers: Crisil data, Peak XV's fund performance, small cap index returns, FDs. All of it. Joining us is also Arundhati Ramanathan, deputy editor at The Ken, who's been tracking these partner exits closely.Mayank's take? "What is happening in the VC industry currently is they are charging the profit shares of that Medallion fund while returning less than index funds, which is blasphemous."Most Indian VC funds are charging 36% profit share to deliver 12% returns while a small cap index fund gave 13.35% over the same period which you can withdraw anytime. So why do the smartest investors in the world keep putting money into this? Why does two and twenty still exist?Fair warning, this episode is number-heavy. We've linked the reports in the show notes so you can follow along. But the punchline is simple: venture capital in India might just be an overpriced underperforming asset class nobody's willing to admit is broken.Listen to find out why the exits are just beginning.____Additional resources:1. Accel India's fund returns (Newcomer, paywalled)2. Crisil's AIF Benchmarks Report3. Indian VCs’ boss wants them to take a pay cut by Arundhati Ramanathan4. India's VCs are getting disrupted… by India's tax-payers by Praveen Gopal Krishnan5. The invisible whale that capsized India’s leaky options boats- Two by Two episode 51____This episode was produced by Uddantika Kashyap.If you liked this episode, share it with your friends, family and colleagues. And if you have thoughts on the discussion, write to us at [email protected].

If you are in your 20s or 30s in India right now, things probably feel a little weird. The headlines say the country is a rocket ship, but your reality might be hiring freezes and stagnant salaries.To understand why, we sat down with someone who actually moves the money. Since the 1990s, Rohit Chopra, portfolio manager/analyst at Lazard Asset Management, has managed billions of dollars across emerging markets: from Brazil to Korea to China and India. He doesn't look at the Indian market with pride or pessimism but with one question: is this the best place on Earth for his clients' money right now?In this episode of Two by Two, Rahel Philipose and Rohin Dharmakumar dig into Rohit’s playbook. They discuss how he identifies "the Holy Grail" of businesses, why capital has been leaving India recently, and which sectors will actually define the next decade. If you have ever wanted to sit across from a global fund manager and get the uncomfortable truth about where India really stands, this is the conversation you’ve been waiting for.______This episode was produced by Uddantika Kashyap and mixed and mastered by Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer.If you liked this episode, share it with your friends, family and colleagues. And if you have thoughts on the discussion, write to us at [email protected].

Last week, nearly ₹2 lakh crore vanished from Indian IT stocks in just four days. A big reason was Anthropic's new product, Claude Cowork. Suddenly investors were confronted with an unsettling reality: what if the work Indian IT has long depended on is now the easiest to automate?For almost 20 years, India's IT giants have been unstoppable compounding machines. They built empires worth hundreds of billions of dollars by doing one thing very well: renting out smart people by the hour to write code and run technology for Western clients. But when code starts to write itself, what happens to these companies?Conversations about IT services usually lump all these firms together, as if they are the same business with different logos. In this episode, we break them apart. We ask a simple but uncomfortable question: in an AI-first world, who thrives and who gets left behind? We take five of the biggest IT services firms in India's orbit—TCS, Infosys, Wipro, HCL Tech and Cognizant—and rank them on who is best placed right now for what's coming next. Spoiler: the answer is not what the last 20 years of market-cap tables would suggest.To do this, we brought in two people who have lived this industry from the inside.Krishnakumar Natarajan co-founded Mindtree in 1999 and built it into a multi-billion dollar global IT services firm. He later chaired NASSCOM and now runs Mela Ventures, where he backs early-stage deep tech and enterprise startups.Vivek Kant spent over two decades in IT services across Tech Mahindra and Cognizant, then moved to the other side of the table as CTO at Bajaj Markets and as an advisor at Boston Consulting Group. He still codes 3-4 hours a day using AI. You can check out his blogs here.The board is set. The King, the Rook, the Knight, and the Bishop. The question is: who makes the first move?_________This episode of Two by Two was produced by Uddantika Kashyap and mixed and mastered by Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer. If you liked this episode, share it with your friends and colleagues. And if you have thoughts on the discussion, write to us at [email protected].

Software engineering as we knew it is over and the entry-level job has vanished. So what do you tell someone graduating today?This question splits even the experts. Arnav Gupta, Engineering Manager at Meta and co-founder of Coding Blocks, argues the knowledge must compress. He says that the future belongs to those who adapt fast and embrace the AI tools. Meanwhile Abhay Saraf, Director at Bushel Technologies and ex-Microsoft, pushes back hard. He believes you cannot build a calculator and stop teaching multiplication. The fundamentals matter more than ever, even if it takes longer to learn them.Together with co-hosts Praveen Gopal Krishnan and Rahel Philipose, they break down what skills actually matter now, why typing still beats voice coding, and whether engineering college should be two years or ten. The answers might surprise you._____Similar episode:Episode 6 Is the golden era of the (software) engineer over?This episode of Two by Two was produced by Uddantika Kashyap and mixed and mastered by Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer.If you liked this episode, share it with your friends and colleagues. And if you have thoughts on the discussion, write to us at [email protected].

PhonePe leads nearly half of India's UPI transactions, but as it gears up for a $1.3 billion IPO, a tough question looms: can a company built to defend its lead ever learn to make real profit?In this episode, Rohin Dharmakumar argues that PhonePe's dominance might actually be a strategic trap. With zero-margin transactions and shifting regulations, the next ten years cannot look like the last. To win, PhonePe must decide whether it's willing to risk its crown to become a bold market creator. Will it evolve into an aggressive disruptor like Zomato, or remain a safe, boring utility like PayPal?Joining co-hosts Rohin Dharmakumar and Praveen Gopal Krishnan is Arundhati Ramanathan, Deputy Editor at The Ken and resident fintech expert. Arundhati recently published a story on January 26 titled 'Should PhonePe be worth more than Paytm's $7.9B?' which dives deep into the company's valuation puzzle. We also introduce a new voice to the 2x2 team: Rahel Philipose joins as our third co-host to help unravel the cultural and strategic shifts required for PhonePe's survival.This episode of Two by Two was produced by Uddantika Kashyap mixed and mastered by Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer.If you liked this episode, please share it with your friends and colleagues. And if you have thoughts on the discussion, write to us at [email protected] resources:- Platform ambitions: The story of how Ispirit lost its true north by Rohin Dharmakumar- The unlikely story of BHIM, the upsetter of plans by Arundhati Ramanathan- Naryana Health's Viren Shetty on learning 'how much insurance is about selling and how little about health' by Seema Singh- Two by Two episode 1: Will Flipkart become Phonepe before Phonepe becomes flipkart?

Swiggy has launched Noice, a private label brand that's popping up across categories on Instamart. But is this a genuine brand-building play or just another experiment destined for Swiggy's product graveyard?In this episode, co-hosts Praveen Gopal Krishnan and Rohin Dharmakumar are joined by Sandeep Nair, co-founder of brand strategy consultancy David & Who and former Swiggy marketing director, and Mrunmayi Oke, SVP of Strategy at Zilo and former head of business at Dunzo. Together, they debate whether Noice is Swiggy's answer to Kirkland or closer to Amazon Solimo with ‘truck-style’ packaging.The conversation explores short-term performance metrics and long-term brand building, why most private labels fail, what makes retailers like Costco and Aldi succeed, and whether Swiggy has the organizational discipline to stick with this strategy. They also discuss the economics of private labels and what it takes to build a brand that consumers actually trust.____This episode of Two by Two was produced by Uddantika Kashyap and mixed and mastered by Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer.If you liked this episode, please share it with your friends and colleagues. And if you have thoughts on the discussion, write to us at [email protected].____Additional reading:1. Swiggy used to be a playground for innovation. Now, it’s a graveyard by Gaurav Bagur2. Pepsi’s biggest bottler is pouring more cola to fight Reliance’s Campa by Aakriti Bhalla3.  Two by Two episode 5- Swiggy needs to reclaim its past glory4. Two by Two episode 26- Zomato, Swiggy, and the rise of the 10-minute "dark" cafe5. Two by Two episode 45- Are we seeing the unbundling of quick commerce?6. Two by Two episode 72- Can Urban Company avoid BigBasket’s fate?

Urban Company has spent years building trust as the go-to platform for home services. But a new generation of founders is now using the Zepto playbook to target its most profitable segments. On Two by Two this week, Praveen Gopal Krishnan and Rohin Dharmakumar are joined by Arpit Agarwal, a partner at Blume Ventures.The conversation explores the wedge strategy: how specialized startups like Snabbit and Dazzl are driving deep into specific categories like household help and beauty services. Arpit explains why horizontal giants are often wired like sloths, making it difficult for them to stay nimble when a fast moving dragonfly startup attacks a single category.The hosts also discuss the operational shift from scheduled slots to instant supply. They look at how these new players are treating human labor as an engineering problem, using heat maps and demand prediction to promise services in minutes. But can you actually standardize a home cleaning or a cooking service without losing quality?It is a deep dive into the battle for your living room and whether efficiency will eventually take over brand loyalty._______This episode of was produced by Uddantika Kashyap and mixed and mastered by Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer.If you liked this episode of Two by Two, please share it with your friends, colleagues, and anyone else who might be interested. And if you have thoughts on the discussion, write to us at [email protected]. We’d love to hear from you.

Running a successful restaurant is hard. Scaling one without losing what made it special is even harder.This week on Two by Two, hosts Praveen Gopal Krishnan and Rohin Dharmakumar talk to two people who are deep in that fight: Sameer Seth, founder and CEO of Hunger Inc. Hospitality (The Bombay Canteen, O Pedro, Veronica's, Papa's, Bombay Sweet Shop), and Karan Kapur, Executive Director of K Hospitality Group (Copper Chimney, Bombay Brasserie, The Irish House).The conversation starts with why restaurants are so difficult to scale. Real estate is expensive and hard to find. Tastes change across cities as India isn't one market, it's several. And unlike other businesses, restaurants have to produce and serve the product at the exact same moment, which makes consistency brutal.Sameer and Karan walk through the transition every restaurateur has to make: from artist (creating the magic of the first restaurant) to scientist (building systems that let you do it again and again without losing the soul). They talk about diversification and why Sameer kept all his brands in Mumbai while expanding formats. Also why Karan thinks the big inflection point won't come until India's GDP per capita hits $5,000, which he estimates will be around 2032.They then discuss micro-dining. Pappas serves just 12 people, four times a week, and it works because Veronica's next door serves 300 and pays the rent. They talk about why Bombay Sweet Shop started as a Willy Wonka-style mithai factory. And they tackle the bigger question in the end: in an age where everything comes to your door in 10 minutes, what will keep people going out to restaurants?_____This episode was produced by Uddantika Kashyap and mixed and mastered by Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer.If you liked this episode of Two by Two, please share it with your friends, family and colleagues who would be interested in listening. And if you have more thoughts on the discussion, we'd love to hear your arguments as well. You can write to us at [email protected] or comment below.

2025 is done. Forty-eight episodes. Hundreds of guests. Endless banter between Rohin and Praveen.This year, Two by Two covered stories from Bengaluru to the world including business, tech, and everything in between. We didn't just stick to the usual. We asked about people, trends, and the things others weren't paying attention to. We brought on guests who didn't rehearse their answers and tried to make sense of things as they happened.Some episodes turned out to be prescient. Some were messy. Some sparked arguments in our inbox. All of them tried to do what we set out to do: spot hidden connections, ask unasked questions, and figure out what's really going on.This final episode is Rohin looking back at six moments from the year with clips from conversations that stood out. Between each one, he adds context and some behind-the-scenes perspective on why it mattered.Here are the episodes featured:Episode 26: Zomato, Swiggy, and the rise of the 10-minute "dark" caféEpisode 31: Airtel fights spammers. And Truecaller's business modelEpisode 47: Who broke Bengaluru, and how do we fix our cities?Episode 50: In an AI age, India does not have an open source strategyEpisode 51: The invisible whale that capsized India's leaky options boatsEpisode 66: What will bring ambition back from the dead?To everyone who listened, argued with us, sent guest suggestions, or just stuck around, thank you. Next year, we're coming back with everything that makes Two by Two what it is, but bigger and better. Maybe even a few surprises. Stay tuned.There won't be an episode next Thursday. We will return on January 8th, 2026.See you in the new year.___________This episode was produced by Uddantika Kashyap and mixed and mastered by Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer.If you liked this episode of Two by Two, please share it with your friends, family and colleagues who would be interested in listening. If you have suggestions for guests, episodes or even changes we could make. Please write to us at [email protected] or comment below.

As we try to wind down this year, Rohin and Praveen do something they’ve never done before: go through every single episode they recorded this year. All 48 of them. In 60 minutes.The rules were simple. Each host had 10 points to build their personal top 10 list for the year. No take-backs, and no pre-discussion. It was a completely live, vibe-based recording where they figured it out as they went.What follows is a rapid-fire sprint through the year. From Amazon India’s struggles to the electric car slowdown, from B-school placements to the rise of quick commerce dark stores, and from Razorpay versus Juspay to the chaos of concert infrastructure in India. They cover it all—the hits, the misses, the prescient calls, and the episodes they wish had gone differently.Along the way, they debate whether episodes were too speculative, too early, or just not memorable enough. By the end, they’re locked in a tight race with only five episodes left and one point each remaining.Because it wouldn't be Two by Two without a matrix, we plotted the results of their debate. Take a look at the graphic to see which episodes they both loved (the green zone) versus their personal favourites.It is chaotic, nostalgic, and a perfect preview of what 2025 looked like through the lens of Two by Two._________This episode was produced by Uddantika Kashyap and mixed and mastered by Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer.With 48 episodes in the books, this is the perfect starting point for anyone looking to catch up on the defining business stories of 2025. If you liked this sprint through the year, please share it with someone who loves a good deep dive. Have your own "vibe-based" arguments about our list? We’re all ears. Reach out at [email protected] or leave a comment.

Swiggy just raised a billion dollars in its IPO last year. Now it needs another ₹10,000 crores. That's not a great sign.On Two by Two this week, hosts Praveen Gopal Krishnan and Rohin Dharmakumar try to make sense of the chaos in India's quick commerce space. Joining them are Ashwin Mehta, head of research at Ambit Capital, and Anand Kalyanaraman, finance editor at The Ken.Here's what happened: Zepto suddenly dropped all fees, forcing Swiggy to scramble and match. Blinkit's CEO is out there declaring the bubble could burst any day now, even though his company is comfortably winning. And everyone's burning cash like there's no tomorrow.The conversation breaks down why this sector is heading for trouble. They argue India can only support around 12,000 dark stores, and we're already at 70% of that. They discuss why Swiggy keeps reacting to what Zepto does instead of leading its own way. And here's a striking stat: the average quick commerce user spends ₹45,000 a year per household. That tells you exactly who this market is really for and why it might be more limited than everyone thinks.It's a messy race where nobody's backing down and the next 12 months will decide who survives._____________________This episode was produced by Uddantika Kashyap and mixed and mastered by Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer.If you liked this episode of Two by Two, please share it with your friends, family and colleagues who would be interested in listening. And if you have more thoughts on the discussion, we'd love to hear your arguments as well. You can write to us at [email protected] or comment below.

"When you called me yesterday, I came up with eight different reasons to say no to you."That's Kosturi Ghosh, partner at Tri-Legal, explaining why she almost didn't show up for this podcast. It's a revealing admission and one that gets to the heart of why business and tech podcasts have such a lopsided gender problem.This week on Two by Two, hosts Praveen Gopal Krishnan and Rohin Dharmakumar do something uncomfortable: they examine their own track record. Joined by Kosturi and Swapnika Nag, co-founder and CEO of Periscope, they confront the fact that 95% of guests on Two by Two have been men.A recent USC Annenberg study found that business and tech podcasts have the worst gender split of any genre—92.3% male guests. The conversation explores why this happens, from relying on existing networks and the challenges of cold outreach, to the fact that women are held to different standards when speaking publicly. They also debate whether this is even a problem worth solving, given that the representation issue starts much earlier—in boardrooms, founder circles, and senior leadership positions.The group discusses what can be done differently: building trust over time and being more intentional about guest planning. They also touch on imposter syndrome and why men seem more comfortable winging it. It's a moment of self-reflection with no easy answers, but plenty of ideas on how to do better in 2026.______Additional readings:USC Annenberg Inclusion Initiative (November 2025)Accidental Feminism: Gender Parity and Selective Mobility among India’s Professional Elite by Swethaa S. Ballakrishnen_______This episode was produced by Uddantika Kashyap and mixed and mastered by Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer.If you liked this episode of Two by Two, please share it with your friends, family and colleagues who would be interested in listening. And if you have more thoughts on the discussion, we'd love to hear your arguments as well. You can write to us at [email protected] or comment below.

This week on Two by Two, hosts Praveen Gopal Krishnan and Rohin Dharmakumar dissect Meesho's strategy with Adarsh Menon (partner at Fireside Ventures and former head of Shopsy at Flipkart) and Ganesh Nagasekar (founder of GSN Invest).Fresh off filing its DRHP, Meesho has gotten here by doing everything differently. Zero commission when competitors charged fees. Optimizing for cost when others raced for speed. Building a logistics arm that slashed delivery costs. All while serving 210 million middle-class customers that Flipkart and Amazon had largely ignored.The conversation explores what actually sets Meesho apart—is it the data science powering three-quarters of its orders, the seller economics that let merchants triple revenue in a year, or something else? And more importantly, where does it go from here? The group debates whether Meesho should push deeper into logistics, experiment with content commerce, or solve the cash-on-delivery mess that's creating hidden costs across the business.Sections: 1. What makes Meesho different?2. The zero commission bet 3. Valmo: Building a logistics business from scratch4. Where it goes next5. Meesho as India's WalmartThis episode was produced by Uddantika Kashyap and mixed and mastered by Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer.If you liked this episode of Two by Two, please share it with your friends, family and colleagues who would be interested in listening. And if you have more thoughts on the discussion, we'd love to hear your arguments as well. You can write to us at [email protected] or comment below.

This week, Two by Two debuts a new format: "Reverse engineering the playbook."Hosts Rohin Dharmakumar and Praveen Gopal Krishnan attempt to crack the math behind this recent wave of AI-telco partnerships in India. Why are companies like Perplexity, Google, and OpenAI racing to bundle their expensive premium subscriptions with Airtel, Jio, and Phonepe? To decode the economics, they are joined by two industry experts with firsthand experience managing these exact types of deals: Chandrashekhar Vattikuti (ex-CPO of Inmobi and SVP of their Telco Cloud business) and Prakash Deep Maheshwari (head of product at Grab and former director of growth for Netflix in India and Southeast Asia).The group explores whether Indian telcos are desperate for differentiation or simply cashing in on a gold rush where the smartest move is to sell shovels–or in this case, subscribers. Prakash argues this is a classic Prisoner’s Dilemma: once one telco bundles an AI service, the others have no choice but to follow.They also break down the actual structure of these deals, from minimum guarantees to the marketing halo the partnerships create. The conversation gets into why OpenAI likely entered these deals "kicking and screaming" to protect its platform ambitions, while Chandra offers a reality check on whether these massive user numbers will actually stick around once the free periods end._____________Episodes referenced in the conversation:1. ‘Do we even need product managers?’- Two by Two episode 13 with Chandrashekhar Vattikuti2. ‘Threat models, using taste to defend margins, ChatGPT’s ‘collab’ with Phonepe’- Zero Shot episode 9Sections:00:00 – The ‘Reverse engineering’ experiment04:36 – Are telcos becoming just dumb pipes? 13:14 – The gold rush for subscribers 29:51 – How these deals are actually structured 47:38 – Why OpenAI resisted these partnerships 58:09 – Will users actually stick around?_____________This episode was produced by Uddantika Kashyap and mixed and mastered by Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer.If you liked this episode of Two by Two, please share it with your friends, family and colleagues who would be interested in listening. And if you have more thoughts on the discussion, we’d love to hear your arguments as well. You can write to us at [email protected] or comment below.

The popular narrative often blames Gen Z for a lack of ambition, but is it the millennials who are truly suffering from “ambition fatigue”?This week on Two by Two, the conversation takes its lead from The Ken’s deputy editor, Arundhati Ramanathan’s recent and concerning article, “Indian Tech Companies are Spawning an Ambitionless Generation”.Hosts Rohin Dharmakumar and Praveen Gopal Krishnan sit down to discuss how to solve this cross-generational problem and bring the “fire back in the belly”, with or without burning the midnight lamp. They explore the striking ambition gap between driven founders/CEOs and their often-indifferent employees. Is this growing apathy a fault of the corporate environment and a lack of opportunity, or is the responsibility for finding purpose solely on the individual?Can the corporate world reignite ambition, and can it truly rise from the dead? Joining the hosts to tackle this multifold issue are three experts:Gaston Schmitz Gaston is a partner/executive and founder coach at the Asian Leadership Institute, guiding senior executives at Fortune 500 companies and high-growth startup founders across 30+ countries. With over 20,000 hours of experience, he employs a personalised approach rooted in mindfulness and neuroscience to help leaders expand their perspective and identify blind spots. Vipul NandaVipul is the director of product marketing at Databahn. His professional history includes significant roles at major fintech platforms, including a tenure as director of product marketing at Cashfree Payments and product marketing manager at Razorpay. Additionally, Nanda is the co-founder of the GoPMM community for product marketers in India and holds an advisory position with Antler.Arundhati RamanathanArundhati is the deputy editor at The Ken. Based in Bengaluru, she is a seasoned journalist who focuses on in-depth, long-form stories about India's startup ecosystem, entrepreneurship, and the fintech industry. Her work often explores the significant trends and challenges impacting the tech landscape, such as venture capital, founder strategies, and shifts in workforce dynamics.----Additional reading: ‘Indian Tech Companies are Spawning an Ambitionless Generation’ by Arundhati Ramanathanhttps://the-ken.com/story/indian-tech-companies-are-spawning-an-ambitionless-generation/?t=251112092335Last episode Gaston was in- ‘Where AI can and can’t replace human coaching’https://the-ken.com/podcasts/two-by-two/where-ai-can-and-cant-replace-human-coaching/Warren Buffet’s shareholder lettershttps://www.berkshirehathaway.com/letters/letters.htmlMarshall Goldsmith’s 6 daily questionshttps://www.marshallgoldsmith.com/post/six-daily-questionsThe Three Signs of a Miserable Job: A Fable for Managers by Patrick Lencionihttps://www.goodreads.com/book/show/749937.The_Three_Signs_of_a_Miserable_JobFinite and Infinite Games by James P. Carsehttps://www.goodreads.com/book/show/189989.Finite_and_Infinite_Games---- This episode was mixed and mastered by Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer.If you liked this episode of Two by Two, please share it with your friends, family and colleagues who would be interested in listening. And if you have more thoughts on the discussion, we’d love to hear your arguments as well. You can write to us at [email protected].

What is the “listing pop” that everyone is chasing, and does it still matter six months later? This simple question is the starting point for a deep look into the current boom in the Indian Initial Public Offering (IPO) market. Despite a massive influx of investor wealth, the standards for companies going public have significantly dropped. In this episode of Two by Two, co-hosts Rohin Dharmakumar and Praveen Gopal Krishnan are joined by their colleagues, The Ken’s finance editor, Anand Kalyanaraman, and deputy editor, Seetharaman G to explore how the initial “IPO event” relates to a company’s long-term performance. They discuss how high valuations from private investors are merely being validated at the public listing. They also examine the rise of “flipping”—the practice of quickly selling IPO shares for a profit—a tactic now accepted by many large institutions as just part of “the game”. The episode of Two by Two was mixed and mastered by Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer.If you liked this episode of Two by Two, please share it with your friends, colleagues, and anyone else who might be interested. And if you have thoughts on the discussion, particularly what IPO companies did we miss out on that you know are living happily ever after, write to us at [email protected]. We’d love to hear from you.

What’s the dumbest thing about hospitals that we still tolerate in 2025? This simple question kicks off a deep dive into the broken core of the Indian healthcare system. From confusing X-ray pricing and misaligned incentives that prioritise “sick-care” over healthcare, to the irritating experience of endless queues and fragmented records, the problems are deeply entrenched in the system. In this episode of Two by Two, co-hosts Praveen Gopal Krishnan and Rohin Dharmakumar talk to two founders who are not just trying to patch the system, but rebuild it from the ground up. Varun Dubey of Superhealth and Mayank Banerjee of Even Healthcare are both creating smaller, hyperlocal, and experience-focused hospitals. They break down how they’re unbundling the bloated cost structures of traditional hospitals, redesigning the patient journey, and realigning incentives by putting doctors on full-time salaries with ESOPs. The conversation explores the difficulty of disrupting the current healthcare system and the challenges of scaling innovative models that prioritise patient well-being and affordability. This episode of Two by Two was mixed and mastered by Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer.If you liked this episode of Two by Two, please share it with your friends, colleagues, and anyone else who might be interested. And if you have thoughts on the discussion, write to us at [email protected]. We’d love to hear from you.

In this episode of Two by Two, we map out a viable AI strategy for India that plays to its unique strengths, not its weaknesses. Co-hosts Rohin Dharmakumar and Praveen Gopal Krishnan sit down with Chaitanya Chokkareddy, co-founder and CTO of Ozonetel–a cloud-based communication platform providing call-centre solutions—who presents a contrarian view: India’s current focus on acquiring GPUs is a flawed, capital-intensive race it cannot win. Instead, the real, defensible moat lies in India’s cultural and linguistic data.We dive deep into why a “data sets over GPUs” strategy is crucial to prevent the cultural exclusion of a billion people, how it impacts the very way we learn and feel, and why India’s massive IT services industry is sitting on a goldmine for building the next generation of AI agents.This episode of Two by Two was mixed and mastered by Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer.If you liked this episode of Two by Two, please share it with your friends, colleagues, and anyone else who might be interested. And if you have thoughts on the discussion, write to us at [email protected]. We’d love to hear from you.*****Additional readingAirtel fights spammers. And Truecaller's business model

In this episode, we sit down with Ishendra Agarwal, founder and CEO of Giva, to unpack his mission to democratise fine jewellery in India. We look at how Giva is rapidly scaling its omnichannel presence with over 270 stores and targeting Rs 850 crore in revenue, all while catering to the modern consumer’s desire for accessible, fashionable pieces. Co-hosts of Two by Two Rohin Dharmakumar and Praveen Gopal Krishnan take a deep dive into the transitioning shift caused by lab-grown diamonds (LGDs). The conversation tackles one core industry debate: can LGDs, dismissed by some legacy players, ever hold emotional value as heirlooms, or are they purely a fashion statement? Ishendra also makes an emphasis on the importance of brand and design and how they will be the ultimate differentiators in a commoditising market. We also explore Giva’s operational innovations, from using AI in design to their “Giva Go” quick-commerce model for last-minute gifting. For anyone interested in consumer brands, market disruption, and the future of the jewellery, this is an unmissable discussion.This episode of Two by Two was mixed and mastered by Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer.If you liked this episode of Two by Two, please share it with your friends, colleagues, and anyone else who might be interested. And if you have thoughts on the discussion, write to us at [email protected]. We’d love to hear from you.

India’s fintech-based NBFC lending sector offers many lessons. Three early pioneers—Capital Float (now Axio), Zestmoney, and Lendingkart—raised significant amounts of venture capital, built solid momentum, and achieved growth and penetration. They pivoted, explored multiple opportunities, and yet, ultimately had to sell out. In this episode of Two by Two, co-hosts Rohin Dharmakumar and Praveen Gopal Krishnan are joined by guests Shivashish Chatterjee, co-founder of DMI Group, and Arundhati Ramanathan, The Ken’s deputy editor. Together, they discuss the business models of these lenders—including balance sheet lending and the rise of “buy now, pay later”—and what lessons can be learned for the future of India’s fintech lending ecosystem.This episode of Two by Two was mixed and mastered by Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer.If you liked this episode of Two by Two, please share it with your friends, colleagues, and anyone else who might be interested. And if you have thoughts on the discussion, write to us at [email protected]. We’d love to hear from you.Additional readingAxio—a fintech dream comes to an end https://the-ken.com/kaching/axio-a-fintech-dream-comes-to-an-end/

In this episode of Two by Two, co-hosts Praveen Gopal Krishnan and Rohin Dharmakumar are joined by Ayyappan Rajagopal, founder and CEO of the quick-commerce platform Firstclub. A veteran of India’s e-commerce sector with leadership roles at Flipkart, Myntra, and Cleartrip, Ayyappan shares his vision for a differentiated experience in the crowded quick-commerce market. While existing platforms are highly transactional and compete on speed and discounts, Firstclub aims to be a curated, discovery-led platform offering high-quality products. For brands, Firstclub positions itself not just as a retailer, but as an extended distributor and brand-building partner. It works closely with brands, associating only with those whose stature and target consumers align with its curated vision. For consumers, Firstclub is drawing inspiration from the Costco model by planning a membership-based system to build a loyal customer base and offer superior products at better value. Delve into this conversation to understand how Firstclub is carving out its unique space in the quick-commerce landscape. *****Additional reading1,500 stories about India’s complex relationships with Swiggy Instamart, Blinkit, Zepto, and BigbasketAre we seeing the unbundling of quick commerce?

In this episode, co-hosts Praveen Gopal Krishnan and Rohin Dharmakumar sit down with Munaf Kapadia (VP of growth and marketing, Natfirst), and Arjun Anjaria (founder, Unbox Health) to discuss the challenge posed by misleading food labels in India and the resulting deterioration in consumer trust. Unbox Health uses independent lab testing to verify product claims, creating an objective D to A+ rating scale based on label accuracy, toxicity, and nutritional profile. While Natfirst, and its consumer app Truthin, interpret the data already on product labels—analysing ingredients, additives, and processing levels—to provide a simple 1 to 5 star rating with the goal of empowering “conscious consumers” who want to know what’s in their food. Arjun and Munaf, with several years of combined expertise in this domain, help us understand the rocky terrain of consumer labeling in India by breaking down the current regulatory landscape, the ineffectiveness of existing penalties for mislabeling, and much more.This episode of Two by Two was mixed and mastered by Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer.If you liked this episode of Two by Two, please share it with your friends, colleagues, and anyone else who might be interested. And if you have thoughts on the discussion, write to us at [email protected]. We’d love to hear from you.

How does the India head of a global, category-creating giant view its future in arguably its most complex market?In this candid episode of Two by Two, we sit down with Prabhjeet Singh, the president of Uber India and South Asia, to deconstruct the company’s biggest strategic challenges and ambitions in the country.Prabhjeet breaks down Uber’s “barbell strategy”—a delicate balance of serving both premium customers with services like Uber Black and cost-conscious users with affordable options. We dive deep into the evolving competitive landscape, moving beyond the traditional Uber vs. Ola duopoly to discuss the disruption from players like Rapido and Namma Yatri, who are challenging the commission-based business model. Prabhjeet addresses how Uber navigates this complex environment, including the tricky regulatory and taxation issues that create a non-level playing field.The conversation expands to Uber’s grander vision as a multi-modal platform, not just a ride-hailing app. Prabhjeet reveals a surprising insight: Uber’s courier service is now one of its fastest-growing verticals in India, born from a “hack” during the pandemic. We also explore innovative new revenue streams, from the recently launched Uber Teens for secure rides to a fascinating new feature allowing driver-partners to earn extra income by completing AI-based micro-tasks during their downtime.Finally, we touch upon the long-term future, discussing the viability of self-driving cars on Indian roads and the constant push-and-pull of regulatory innovation. This is a rare, unfiltered look into the operational and strategic engine of Uber India as it navigates growth, competition, and its own evolution.This episode of Two by Two was mixed and mastered by Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer.If you liked this episode of Two by Two, please share it with your friends, colleagues, and anyone else who might be interested. And if you have thoughts on the discussion, we’d love to hear from you. Write to us at [email protected].

While India produces millions of graduates every year, the stark reality is that many remain underemployed, and some are increasingly turning unemployable. Contrary to popular belief, this is not merely a problem facing social science or non-STEM students. Data from the past decade shows that 40% to 50% of engineering graduates from Indian universities have not been placed in jobs, underlining the worrying gap between academic education and industry requirements. This is just one of the challenges India’s youth face in transitioning from a fairly uniform school system to career-oriented education. Aggravating this issue is the critical gap in career awareness among Indian students. While the modern economy offers over 20,000 career paths, 93% of students are familiar with only seven traditional roles, including doctor, engineer, lawyer, or teacher. This mismatch between what traditional degrees offer and modern job-market demands is the focus of this animated episode of Two by Two, where co-hosts Rohin Dharmakumar and Praveen Gopal Krishnan are joined by two experts in the field of education—Maheshwer Peri, founder and CEO of Careers360, and Abhishek Ghosh, clinical researcher and career counsellor at No Herd Mentality.This episode of Two by Two was mixed and mastered by Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer. If you liked this episode of Two by Two, please share it with your friends, colleagues, and anyone else who might be interested. And if you have thoughts on the discussion, we’d love to hear from you. Write to us at [email protected].*****Additional reading:India’s demographic dividend as a time bombAbhishek Ghosh’s blog: No Herd Mentality

Whatsapp is the fastest and the best way to reach hundreds of millions of Indians, which makes it a dream distribution channel for everybody. But its owner Meta maintains an iron grip on its APIs, pricing, and policies, making it a risky place to build. This is Whatsapp’s double life. This deadlock is why Whatsapp is universally used but not universally loved by India’s users. It’s why startups have an opportunity in front of them, but one shrouded in doubt. In this episode, we have two wonderful founders who are building companies on top of Whatsapp and have their own reasons to try to break this deadlock. Swapnika Nag is co-founder and CEO of Periskope, an AI platform supercharging sales and operations on Whatsapp, and Dharmesh Ba is founder of October Chat, which builds AI agents for Whatsapp. With co-hosts, Rohin Dharmakumar and Praveen Gopal Krishnan, they unravel the risks and rewards of building on one of the world’s most popular messaging apps.  This episode of Two by Two was mixed and mastered by Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer. If you liked this episode of Two by Two, please share it with your friends, colleagues, and anyone else who might be interested. And if you have thoughts on the discussion, we’d love to hear from you. Write to us at [email protected] readingDharmesh Ba’s substack: https://newsletter.theindianotes.com/

Launched in 2016, UPI now dominates retail digital payments in India, accounting for over 80% of the volume and processing a massive 300 million transactions every month. What began as a government-funded project is now a public utility. Unlike private companies like Visa or Mastercard, government-funded entities like the Internet or the World Wide Web are not typically judged in terms of profitability. Their vast economic and innovative benefits far outweigh their costs. Viewing UPI through a profit-making lens is simply the wrong approach. In this episode of Two by Two, hosts Rohin Dharmakumar and Praveen Gopal Krishnan are joined by two vocal experts—Alok Prasanna, co-founder of Vidhi Legal, and Ateesh Tankha, CEO and co-founder of Alsowise Content Solutions—to dissect the sustainability and future of UPI in India. This episode of Two by Two was mixed and mastered by Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer. If you liked this episode of Two by Two, please share it with your friends, colleagues, and anyone else who might be interested. And if you have thoughts on the discussion, we’d love to hear from you. Write to us at [email protected].*****Additional readingAlok’s Linkedin postUPI can be forever or free—not bothUPI wants to go international, but it isn't built for it (yet)The mystery of usury

In this episode of Two by Two, we discuss pest control. It’s an old industry with little to no innovation, but there’s reason to take notice.Currently valued at $1.8 billion, the market is projected to grow to $3.1 billion by 2033, clocking a steady annual growth rate of 15%.Private equity wants in. Two service providers have been acquired by UK-based Rentokil. One is Pest Control India (PCI), which was once the market leader. The other is Hicare, which was the second-largest player.Hicare’s journey is particularly interesting. It was launched by Godrej in 2004 with the help of Arumugham Mahendran, whose mosquito-repellant business was acquired by Godrej in 1994. Then, it was sold to ISS, a Danish firm, in 2013. Later, it was acquired by a private equity fund called IVFA (now True North). True North held it for 10 years before selling it to Rentokil last year. Meanwhile, Pecopp is another pest control company that is leaving a mark. Founded in 1970 in Mumbai, Pecopp is different from PCI in that it remains family-run, and has managed to go toe-to-toe with Rentokil. Pecopp is the only other Indian pest-control business that operates in multiple cities. All of this is taking place in a market where 55–60% is unorganised, and only 40–45% of demand is met by professional services. Hosts Rohin Dharmakumar and Praveen Gopal Krishnan dig into these questions and explore the nooks and crannies of India’s pest control industry. Our guest, Siddharth Balwani, the director of Pecopp, breaks down his company’s strategy, the market dynamics, and future opportunities. This episode of Two by Two was mixed and mastered by Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer. If you liked this episode of Two by Two, please share it with your friends, colleagues, and anyone else who might be interested. And if you have thoughts on the discussion, we’d love to hear from you. Write to us at [email protected].

In the first episode of season two of Two by Two, we unpack India’s evolving economic story at a pivotal moment—amid global uncertainty and rising US tariff threats that some have dubbed India’s "second 1991 moment."We break down the promise and illusion of India’s economic outlook across two critical dimensions: macroeconomics and markets.The narrative of GDP growth powered by rising productivity is enticing. India stands alone as a large economy where labour, capital, and productivity are all expanding. We explore concerns around job creation, stagnant manufacturing, and deeper structural threats—from AI to climate change.In the markets, domestic money is driving one of the most expensive equity valuations in the world, comparable to that of the US. But beneath the surface lies a more cautious picture: foreign investors are staying neutral, while insiders are cashing out at record levels.From booming inflows into financials to valuation resets in staples and foreign scepticism around consumer discretionary.Whether you’re bullish on India or wary of the froth, this episode challenges assumptions and brings a clearer picture to the contradictions shaping the country's economic future.Joining hosts Praveen Gopal Krishnan and Rohin Dharmakumar for the discussion are Aditya Suresh, head of India equity research at Macquarie, and Seetharaman G, deputy editor at The Ken and resident expert on all things retail, joining the discussion.Welcome to Two by Two.-Additional reading:‘Make in India’ is a tariff-war sticker job - https://the-ken.com/newsletter/make-india-competitive-again/make-in-india-is-a-tariff-war-sticker-job/Stop hating on China. Embrace it - https://the-ken.com/newsletter/make-india-competitive-again/stop-hating-on-china-embrace-it/-This episode of Two by Two was produced by Hari Krishna. Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer, mixed and mastered this episode.If you liked this episode of Two by Two, please share it with your friends and family who would be interested in listening to the episode. And if you have more thoughts on the discussion, we’d love to hear your arguments as well. You can write to us at [email protected].

Join Rohin and Praveen as they celebrate the one-year anniversary of the 2x2 podcast, reflecting on 52 episodes of business and strategy discussions. This special ‘vibes’ episode looks back at their journey creating Two by Two, the evolution of the show, and future plans, deviating from their usual topic-focused format.Praveen shares key meta-narratives he picked from the past year, including a "desperation-driven convergence" where companies like Flipkart and Phonepe try to become each other. He also highlights themes such as the government shaping markets as a "competitor" or through "artificial constraints", and a "great career existential crisis" impacting roles from engineers to marketers. Other themes include the "destruction and retreat of big tech in India", the podcast's contrarian framing of topics, and a focus on India's "livability crisis", addressing issues like urban infrastructure and air pollution.We’d love to hear what you think about Two by Two as well. You can write to us at [email protected].

In 2016, Mukesh Ambani stood on stage and made a promise that seemed impossible. Jio would give away data virtually free and still build a profitable business. The telecom industry laughed. Six years later, Jio had 450 million subscribers and had driven three major competitors into extinction or merger.Now imagine that same playbook applied to your money.Last year, when Jio partnered with BlackRock, the world's largest asset manager with over $10 trillion under management, most people saw it as just another foreign partnership. But here's what they missed.India's mutual fund industry manages around 50 trillion rupees. And yet, only 3-4% of Indians have ever invested in a mutual fund. That's 1.3 billion people whose savings are locked in fixed deposits, gold, and real estate, earning returns that barely keep pace with inflation.To put this in perspective, Americans invest approximately 55% of their savings in financial markets, whereas Indians invest around 3-4%.That gap represents the single largest wealth creation opportunity in the world.Blackrock's Larry Fink knows this, Jio's Mukesh Ambani knows this.And more importantly, they know something that the incumbents don't want to admit: that India's investment industry is ripe for the kind of disruption that decimated the telecom sector.Because what's bigger than one 800-pound gorilla? Two 800-pound gorillas.Zerodha*, India's largest broker, has 15 million users. That's very impressive, until you realise that Jio adds that many telecom subscribers in a single quarter. The entire Indian mutual fund industry has 40 million unique investors.Jio has more customers in just Mumbai.And unlike telecom, where Jio could simply outspend and outlast its competitors, financial services are about trust, not just technology.You may switch your phone carrier for cheaper data, but will you hand over your life savings to the same company that provides your internet?In today’s episode, we are asking the question that's keeping every person working in financial services across mutual funds and brokerages awake at night.Can Jio BlackRock do to investing in wealth what Jio did to telecom?Joining hosts Praveen Gopal Krishnan and Rohin Dharmakumar for the discussion are Manish Jain, co-founder and CPO of Sahi Broking. Manish previously served as the head of product at Fisdom and was the SVP of product and digital transformation at Kotak Securities, and Nirav Karkera, who's the head of research at Fisdom, a leading fintech platform for wealth management.Welcome to episode 52 of Two by Two.-Additional reading:The motley crowd joining the great Indian mutual-fund rush….- https://the-ken.com/long_and_short/the-motley-crowd-joining-the-great-indian-mutual-fund-rush/Jio Blackrock is not your usual Reliance offensive- https://the-ken.com/long_and_short/jio-blackrock-is-not-your-usual-reliance-offensive/Additional listening:Can Smallcase maintain its relevance in a changing market?- https://the-ken.com/podcasts/two-by-two/can-smallcase-maintain-its-relevance-in-a-changing-market/-This episode of Two by Two was produced by Hari Krishna. Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer, mixed and mastered this episode.If you liked this episode of Two by Two, please share it with your friends and family who would be interested in listening to the episode. And if you have more thoughts on the discussion, we’d love to hear your arguments as well. You can write to us at [email protected].

In an unprecedented crackdown, India’s capital markets regulator SEBI has fined the global trading giant Jane Street over ₹4,800 crore, accusing it of systematically manipulating the Indian equity options market. The penalty—one of the largest ever imposed by SEBI—stemming from an investigation into just 21 trading days, could expand significantly, with potential illicit gains estimated between ₹30,000 and ₹40,000 crore still under review.First reported by Anand Kalyanaraman, The Ken’s finance editor, the case centres on Jane Street’s alleged use of “violent expiry” tactics: buying large positions in call or put options and then executing disproportionate trades in the cash segment of the Sensex or Nifty to sway index levels in their favour. On other days, they profited from “quiet expiry” strategies by offloading options to retail investors, extracting premiums in a manner which signals towards “telltale manipulation” devoid of any economic rationale.The fallout strikes at the core of India’s derivatives-heavy market. With over 80% of global equity options contracts (by volume) traded daily in India, the segment has become a high-risk zone for retail participants—90% of whom reportedly lost money between FY2021 and FY2024, racking up collective losses of ₹1.8 lakh crore. The lottery-like appeal of low-cost, high-reward bets has turned into a trap for many.Jane Street has defended its actions as “basic index arbitrage”. The firm is likely to challenge the ban, even as SEBI continues to scrutinise a broader timeline of trades.Hosts Rohin Dharmakumar and Praveen Gopal Krishnan are joined by Anand Kalyanaraman, The Ken’s finance editor and Mayank Bansal, President of a UAE-based hedge fund, who helped break the story, to discuss how all of this played out and what happens next.Welcome to episode 51 of Two by Two.-Additional readingIs Jane Street the all-powerful hidden hand in India’s stock market? - https://the-ken.com/story/is-jane-street-the-all-powerful-hidden-hand-in-indias-stock-market/The mystery fund playing god and wreaking havoc on the stock market - https://the-ken.com/story/the-mystery-fund-playing-god-and-wreaking-havoc-on-the-stock-market/Did NSE sleep at the wheel in the Jane Street Saga? - https://the-ken.com/long_and_short/did-nse-sleep-at-the-wheel-in-the-jane-street-saga/-Check out The Ken's new careers podcast, 90,000 hours:Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5HEi59iUPRMMFfUvxeio47Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/podcast/90-000-hours/id1826777519-This episode of Two by Two was produced by Hari Krishna. Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer, mixed and mastered this episode.If you liked this episode of Two by Two, please share it with your friends and family who would be interested in listening to the episode. And if you have more thoughts on the discussion, we’d love to hear your arguments as well. You can write to us at [email protected].

In the 50th episode of Two by Two, hosts Rohin Dharmakumar and Praveen Gopal Krishnan examine the contrasting open-source trajectories of China, the US, and India in the context of AI, and where India fell short.While China, despite being authoritarian, has surged ahead in open-source AI leadership with models like DeepSeek R1, India has fallen behind. The 2010s are framed as a “lost decade” for Indian open source, characterised by a vibrant tech ecosystem that failed to foster a meaningful contribution culture.China’s rise can be attributed to its unique mix of strategic intent, creative insecurity (following the Huawei ban in 2019), and human capital. It views open source as a geopolitical tool, not a philosophy. India, by contrast, is stuck in a “third way”—neither as open and capitalistic as the US nor as strategically pragmatic as China.What would it take for Indian to do the same?Bring academia to the forefront, fund open source efforts without restrictions, and build a developer culture driven by curiosity, not just career advancement. Open source needs to be viewed more broadly than just code—it’s an innovation infrastructure and a form of digital autonomy. Without this shift, India risks missing the AI bus entirely.And joining them for the discussion are two wonderful guests.Pranay Kotasthane is deputy director at the Takshashila Institution and chairs its High Tech Geopolitics Programme. He co-writes Anticipating the Unintended, a newsletter on public policy ideas and frameworks, and co-hosts Puliyabaazi, a popular Hindi-Urdu podcast on politics, policy, and technology.Kailash Nadh is the CTO of Zerodha*. Kailash calls himself a developer, tinkerer and absurdist. Kailash is a hobbyist developer who has been working on open source projects for the last 25 years.-Additional reading:Why China is giving away its tech for free - https://www.economist.com/business/2025/06/17/why-china-is-giving-away-its-tech-for-freeAnticipating the Unintended (newsletter) - https://publicpolicy.substack.com/Deepseek, AI sovereignty, and India - https://nadh.in/blog/deepseek-ai-sovereignty-india/-This episode of Two by Two was produced by Hari Krishna. Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer, mixed and mastered this episode.If you liked this episode of Two by Two, please share it with your friends and family who would be interested in listening to the episode. And if you have more thoughts on the discussion, we’d love to hear your arguments as well. You can write to us at [email protected]*Zerodha’s perennial fund Rainmatter Capital is an investor in The Ken.

Microsoft, Amazon, Google, GS, JP Morgan Chase, Deloitte, Walmart, Bosch, Adobe, Target, Salesforce, AstraZeneca.What’s common to these dozen organisations? Other than the fact that they are, well, large, well-respected and innovative?They all operate their own development and innovation centres in India. Often sprawling campuses and offices across multiple cities, filled with Indian engineers, project managers, product experts, designers, HR, finance and, well, virtually every function that’s required to run a business.They’re called GCCs. Global Capability Centres.There are over 1,000 global organisations that collectively operate over 1,700 GCCs across India. They employ over 2 million professionals. They generate over $40 billion in annual value, set to surpass $100 billion in another five years.So, what’s the problem?Well, most GCCs are technically doing work that could have been outsourced to Indian outsourcers like Infosys, TCS, Wipro, HCL, etc. In fact, GCCs are so successful a strategy that they’re growing much faster than Indian outsourcers.And as if taking away potential revenue from Indian outsourcers weren’t enough, GCCs are now also taking away talent. That’s right. They’re hiring experienced and talented professionals using higher salaries, better brands and the promise of better work.It appears to be a zero-sum game. A pie that isn’t growing.Both our guests for today’s episode are experts on GCCs, and they had a lot to say about the same. Our first guest is Narayana Ramamurthy, whom you’ll hear us address as ‘Naru’ throughout the discussion. Naru is the founder and CEO of Workfutr, a company which enables US and European organisations to harness India's offshore capability in technology, operations, and transformation. And our second guest is Karthik Padmanabhan, who is the managing partner for GCCs at Zinnow, a global management and consulting firm founded in 2002 that partners and advises global enterprises, outsourcers, PE firms around AI, automation, outsourcing and well, GCCs.Welcome to episode 49 of Two by Two.-Additional reading:ANSR’s Ahuja duo on why “everybody, from Victoria’s Secret to Google, will do pretty much the same thing in India” - https://the-ken.com/story/ansrs-ahuja-duo-on-why-everybody-from-victorias-secret-to-google-will-do-pretty-much-the-same-thing-in-india/GCCs could pose a potential threat to Indian IT - https://analyticsindiamag.com/gcc/gccs-could-pose-a-potential-threat-to-indian-it/-This episode of Two by Two was produced by Hari Krishna. Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer, mixed and mastered this episode.If you liked this episode of Two by Two, please share it with your friends and family who would be interested in listening to the episode. And if you have more thoughts on the discussion, we’d love to hear your arguments as well. You can write to us at [email protected].

Meesho, Rapido, and Zepto have managed to challenge what seemed like firmly established duopolies, such as Amazon and Flipkart, Uber and Ola, and Blinkit and Swiggy Instamart, respectively.The third-place player trying to break the duopoly with its ‘challenger DNA’ came in and caught up with the incumbents by targeting the unserved or underserved markets they overlooked, innovation, be it through providing a zero commission platform for sellers, delivering groceries in minutes or connecting drivers to riders based on a subscription model.But what other factors cause this disruption in these duopolies?A critical factor enabling these new entrants is often incumbent complacency combined with venture capital pressures in India, which push established players towards short-term profits over broader market expansion.In episode 48 of Two by Two, we discuss how these disruptors came about, and based on their journey, can we observe other such disruptive third players in India?Joining hosts Rohin Dharmakumar and Praveen Gopal Krishnan was Professor Rajendra Srivastava, former dean at the Indian School of Business and presently the executive director at the ISB Centre for Business Innovation.–Additional reading:Does your company have an India strategy – https://hbr.org/2023/06/does-your-company-have-an-india-strategyWhy Indigo Airlines may be India’s best export to the world after cricket and bollywood? – https://medium.com/@rks_72086/why-indigo-airlines-may-be-indias-best-export-to-the-world-after-cricket-and-bollywood-5beb92182343Market-based assets and shareholder value – https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/002224299806200102Peripheral Vision: Detecting the Weak Signals that Will Make or Break Your Company written by George S. Day and Paul J. H. Schoemaker (recommended by Professor Shrivastava)The Rule of Three: Surviving and Thriving in Competitive Markets written by Jagdish Sheth and Rajendra Sisodia (recommended by Professor Shrivastava)Additional listening:Is Zepto a gold medallist or a bronze medallist? – https://the-ken.com/podcasts/two-by-two/is-zepto-a-gold-medalist-or-a-bronze-medalist/Vidit Aatrey on building a problem-first mindset into Meesho’s culture – https://the-ken.com/podcasts/first-principles/vidit-aatrey-on-building-a-problem-first-mindset-into-meeshos-culture/–This episode of Two by Two was produced by Hari Krishna. Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer, mixed and mastered this episode.If you liked this episode of Two by Two, please share it with your friends and family who would be interested in listening to the episode. And if you have more thoughts on the discussion, we’d love to hear your arguments as well. You can write to us at [email protected].

Bengaluru, India’s tech hub, is unfortunately also a poster child for urban chaos. A city bursting at the seams, where unplanned growth has pushed its infrastructure to breaking point. Imagine roads that can’t handle the sheer volume of vehicles, leading to traffic jams that eat away at hours of your day. It’s not a minor inconvenience; it’s a daily grind that impacts productivity and quality of life.And it doesn’t stop there. Bengaluru is constantly battling water scarcity. When the monsoons hit, it’s a different kind of nightmare. Even something as fundamental as waste management is a perpetual struggle, with the city’s rapid expansion overwhelming existing systems.Ultimately, Bengaluru’s plight is a reminder of what happens when urban development races ahead without a long-term vision. It’s a web of planning failures, governance challenges, and population boom. Until these issues are addressed, Bengaluru and many other Indian cities will continue to grapple with their struggles.But despite all of these issues, what is the fix for Bengaluru’s problems?Hosts Praveen Gopal Krishnan and Rohin Dharmakumar try to uncover where it went wrong and what the eventual fix will be for its issues, along with our guest Pravar Chaudhary, creative director at Bengawalk, a creative agency that tells stories about urbanisation and climate change in India.Bengawalk, for the netizens of Bengaluru, is a familiar face with their regular updates on what’s going on in the city and the inconveniences and quirks of Bengaluru on Instagram, X (formerly Twitter) and Youtube. They break down the cause of citizens’ frustration with Bengaluru with their detailed breakdowns, and they do this beautifully with their videos, writing, and design published online.You can follow all of their work here.–Additional reading:Bengaluru’s solutions are Bengaluru’s problems – https://the-ken.com/the-nutgraf/bengalurus-solutions-are-bengalurus-problems/Bengaluru’s solution for its traffic mess that tech couldn’t fix: even more tech – https://the-ken.com/story/bengalurus-solution-for-its-traffic-mess-that-tech-couldnt-fix-even-more-tech/It sucks to be a tenant in Bengaluru right now – https://the-ken.com/story/it-sucks-to-be-a-renter-in-bengaluru-right-now/Videos referenced:The never ending construction of Bengaluru – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lV7s_aks_4A–This episode of Two by Two was produced by Hari Krishna. Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer, mixed and mastered this episode.If you liked this episode of Two by Two, please share it with your friends and family who would be interested in listening to the episode. And if you have more thoughts on the discussion, we’d love to hear your arguments as well. You can write to us at [email protected].

This episode of Two by Two was first published on 12 June 2025.Premium subscribers of The Ken have full access to ALL our premium audio. They are available exclusively via The Ken’s subscriber apps. If you don’t have them, just download one and log in to unlock everything. Get your premium subscription using this link.Not a Premium subscriber? You can subscribe to The Ken Premium on Apple Podcasts for an easy monthly price (Rs 299 in India). The channel includes ALL our premium podcasts.–Can an AI bot coach and counsel you?AI is getting better every day and bringing us closer to a scalable, always-on support and a model for both leadership coaching and mental performance.This makes it much more attractive to organisations because it’s less expensive, contextual, personal, self-learning and scalable within organisations.There are futures where this may become the default, and one-on-one human coaching and therapy may become the exception.In this week’s episode of Two by Two, hosts Praveen Gopal Krishnan and Rohin Dharmakumar discuss whether AI can fit into the mould of coaching and therapy, and if there is a future where it becomes the norm.And joining them to discuss and debate this are Gaston Schmitz, partner and founder coach, Asian Leadership Institute, which provides leaders and high-performing teams with executive coaching. Our second guest is Aakriti Joanna, founder and CEO of Kaha Mind, which is a leading mental health organisation for individuals and organisations in India.–Additional reading:The AI chatbots offering workplace counsel – https://www.ft.com/content/ede799c4-8a1c-4c39-8a9b-01899d5b6754–This episode of Two by Two was produced by Hari Krishna. Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer, mixed and mastered this episode.If you liked this episode of Two by Two, please share it with your friends and family who would be interested in listening to the episode. And if you have more thoughts on the discussion, we’d love to hear your arguments as well. You can write to us at [email protected].

This episode of Two by Two was first published on 05 June 2025.Premium subscribers of The Ken have full access to ALL our premium audio. They are available exclusively via The Ken’s subscriber apps. If you don’t have them, just download one and log in to unlock everything. Get your premium subscription using this link.Not a Premium subscriber? You can subscribe to The Ken Premium on Apple Podcasts for an easy monthly price (Rs 299 in India). The channel includes ALL our premium podcasts.–Bigbasket, Blinkit, Instamart, and Zepto are all fighting to capture more and more share of the quick-commerce market. But as they scale, a new set of players fulfilling one use case in minutes is entering the market with hype and funding.Does this mean we will see an unbundling of quick commerce from being an everything store to having separate apps for everything? Or is it just another cycle of unbundling and bundling?Hosts Praveen Gopal Krishnan and Rohin Dharmakumar discuss in the latest episode of Two by Two with Madhav Kasturia, founder and CEO of Zippee, and Sanjay Ramakrishnan, founder and general partner, Multiply Ventures.–This episode of Two by Two was produced by Hari Krishna. Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer, mixed and mastered this episode.If you liked this episode of Two by Two, please share it with your friends and family who would be interested in listening to the episode. And if you have more thoughts on the discussion, we’d love to hear your arguments as well. You can write to us at [email protected].

This episode of Two by Two was first published on 29 May 2025.Premium subscribers of The Ken have full access to ALL our premium audio. They are available exclusively via The Ken’s subscriber apps. If you don’t have them, just download one and log in to unlock everything. Get your premium subscription using this link.Not a Premium subscriber? You can subscribe to The Ken Premium on Apple Podcasts for an easy monthly price (Rs 299 in India). The channel includes ALL our premium podcasts.-Smallcase was an innovative financial product that arrived early to solve a problem for investors. Since its launch in 2015, Smallcase’s proposition has been quite simple. It allowed users to invest directly into thematic baskets of stocks or exchange-traded funds that they called small cases. As an investor, you have complete control and transparency over whatever you want to invest in. Sometimes, there are small cases of stocks that are going to do well during the monsoon season. Sometimes it’s stocks that are going to do well because India is going to push forward in manufacturing. Sometimes it’s a basket of stocks that’s going to do well because India is going forward in things like, say, AI.Smallcase rode this retail investing wave over the last ten years. It reached 3.5 million users and had about 14,000 crores in transaction value. While a new generation of young traders flocked to the market and were looking for direction on where to invest, how much to invest, and what to invest in.However, of late, Smallcase has faced a different kind of competition, and that competition comes from mutual funds that have taken Smallcase’s same playbook and started offering thematic investment. It has also started facing competition from passive funds and competitors like Phonepe and other brokerages like Motilal Oswal, ICICI Direct, Geojit, etc. Over the last few years, Smallcase’s revenue has grown, but so have its losses.In episode 44, hosts Praveen Gopal Krishnan and Rohin Dharmakumar discuss what makes Smallcase special, whether those advantages still persist in a changing market, and whether it can find a way to live up to its original promise.Joining the hosts for the discussion are Bhavesh Sanghvi, CEO, Growthfiniti Wealth and  Nirav Karkera, head of research, Fisdom.Welcome to Two by Two.–Additional reading:Smallcase bet on DIY investors. Then DIY investors moved on – https://the-ken.com/story/smallcase-bet-on-diy-investors-then-diy-investors-moved-on/–This episode of Two by Two was produced by Hari Krishna. Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer, mixed and mastered this episode.If you liked this episode of Two by Two, please share it with your friends and family who would be interested in listening to the episode. And if you have more thoughts on the discussion, we’d love to hear your arguments as well. You can write to us at [email protected].

This episode of Two by Two was first published on 22 May 2025.Premium subscribers of The Ken have full access to ALL our premium audio. They are available exclusively via The Ken’s subscriber apps. If you don’t have them, just download one and log in to unlock everything. Get your premium subscription using this link.Not a Premium subscriber? You can subscribe to The Ken Premium on Apple Podcasts for an easy monthly price (Rs 299 in India). The channel includes ALL our premium podcasts.-Reliance Retail is a behemoth that sells everything—from the recently revived Campa Cola to luxury jackets. And the more than 19,300 stores across its verticals makes it the largest retailer in the country. But Reliance Retail seems to have run the race a bit too fast, and is now plagued by its very efforts to dominate every market it enters. In episode 43 of Two by Two, hosts Rohin Dharmakumar and Praveen Gopal Krishnan discuss how Reliance Retail’s size may be turning out to be its biggest challenge with deputy editor Seetharaman G, who leads The Ken’s coverage on retail.–Additional reading:Why Reliance Retail will be stock-market pundit’s most perplexing company? – https://the-ken.com/story/no-ipo-talk-at-agm-yet-reliance-retail-will-be-stock-pundits-biggest-puzzle/Reliance Retail comes back to earth – https://the-ken.com/tradetricks/reliance-retail-comes-back-to-earth/The curious entry of Jio Financial Services into the Nifty 50 – https://the-ken.com/long_and_short/the-curious-entry-of-jio-financial-services-into-the-nifty-50/Additional listening:Dmart versus the challengers at the gate – https://the-ken.com/podcasts/two-by-two/dmart-versus-the-challengers-at-the-gate/–If you’re a Premium subscriber to The Ken, you can listen to the full episode, along with all our other podcasts, exclusively on our apps now.Not a premium subscriber? You can subscribe to The Ken Premium channel on Apple Podcasts, which unlocks access to all our premium audio offerings at a great monthly recurring price.–This episode of Two by Two was produced by Hari Krishna. Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer, mixed and mastered this episode.If you liked this episode of Two by Two, please share it with your friends and family who would be interested in listening to the episode. And if you have more thoughts on the discussion, we’d love to hear your arguments as well. You can write to us at [email protected].