Episode 14: How to KISS

Welcome to Legal Off The Leash, the podcast where we take the legal profession out of the box and into a happier, more fulfilling future! In this episode, Scott and Elizabeth are joined by plain language expert Colleen Trolove and information designer Liezl van Zyl for a lively, honest conversation about legalese: why it persists, why it frustrates clients, and what it’s really costing the profession. From hostage negotiation to jazz singing, they explore empathy, identity, hierarchy, AI, and the uncomfortable truth: if your client doesn’t understand you, you haven’t communicated. This is a practical and philosophical deep-dive into what clearer legal writing could unlock. 🔑 Key Themes Legalese as Identity: Why lawyers cling to complex language as a badge of expertise. Precision Myth: The flawed belief that legal language is inherently more accurate. Empathy as Strategy: Understanding your reader as the foundation of good drafting. Hierarchy & Habit: How firm culture and precedent entrench poor writing. Litigation Mindset: Why drafting for the worst-case scenario damages relationships. AI & Plain Language: How technology could accelerate—or undermine—clearer communication. 💬 Memorable Quotes “Make sure your reader understand who is doing what to whom.” — Liezl van Zyl “If they don't understand it, you haven't communicated it successfully.” — Colleen Trolove “The most common myth about communication is that it has actually taken place.” — Liezl van Zyl “Legalese is heredatory.” — Elizabeth de Stadler “People have a right to understand the documents they need to actively participate in their own lives.” — Liezl van Zyl 📌 Important Insights & Actionable Takeaways If your client has to ask another lawyer to interpret your advice, you haven’t done your job. Plain language is not about “dumbing down”—it’s about accuracy, structure, and empathy. Legal language often survives because of hierarchy and fear, not because it’s better. Drafting for litigation rather than for relationship-building increases risk rather than reducing it. Start small: replace archaic phrases, use active voice, clarify who is responsible for what. User testing works in law too—observe how real people interact with your documents. AI can help clarify language, but only if you know what you’re trying to say first. Access to justice is fundamentally a communication issue. This episode is a reminder that clarity isn’t cosmetic. It’s ethical. And perhaps the simplest way to take the legal profession off the leash. Connect with the Guests Colleen Trolove 🔗 https://www.colleentrolove.co.nz/ 💬 LinkedIn   Liezl van Zyl 🔗 heyplainjane.com 💬 LinkedIn Resources for you to enjoy https://www.colleentrolove.co.nz/plain-language-resource-library