“I'm not saying that I'm not saying that in the sense of…” — The Ezra Klein Show at 1:23:26
“I'm not saying that I'm not saying that in the sense of totally, wholly created, but certainly used by, right? The whole idea was, was this kind of smear effect where the media would go out and say, this bad person, you know, supports your campaign and then you'd have to disavow and go through”
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