“Yes. Well, and that the thing a lot of people were hoping…” — The Vergecast at 25:42
“Yes. Well, and that the thing a lot of people were hoping would happen when Johnny Ive left Apple happened, which is that in like, you could argue as much as you want that Apple has like not had sort of big, splashy, innovative ideas since then, but like they went back to making the Mac really good after Johnny Ive…”
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