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“you know, it sounds grandiose, but like grand strategy…” — Pod Save America at 1:07:23

“you know, it sounds grandiose, but like grand strategy level, where the U.S. has been pursuing what gets called liberal world order for a long time, where we want to advance markets everywhere. You know, when we were welcoming China, part of the theory was this was going to liberalize them, democratize them.…”

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