LDS Faith Journeys – Gospel Tangents – Mormon History Podcast

Navigating a “Faith/Trust Crisis”: Empathy, Communication, and Finding Your Pace We dive deep into the complexities of faith journeys, exploring how to better communicate with loved ones and how to navigate church activity on your own terms. What advice do you have in a faith/trust crisis conversation? https://youtu.be/uY_5UONNykI Reframing the “Faith Crisis” Drawing from Jeff Strong’s new book, Torn, I think we should reframe the common “faith crisis” as a “trust crisis.” Why do members leave the Church? While Jana Riess’s statistically reliable research indicates that most people leave simply because they lose interest or marry a non-member, Strong’s study suggests that church history is actually the primary driver for those who intentionally disaffect. Regardless of the reasons, this wave of disaffiliation—which Elder Marlin K. Jensen once likened to the highest period of apostasy since Kirtland—requires navigating complex mixed-faith dynamics. Strategies for Conflict Resolution To help families and couples navigate a trust crisis, here are some powerful conflict resolution techniques designed to foster empathy and minimize defensiveness: Share emotions over intellect: Fostering true empathy requires sharing specific emotions and physical sensations (e.g., “I feel pressure in my chest”) rather than over-intellectualizing, which often leads to disconnection. True empathy does not require agreement: You can fully understand how someone arrived at their feelings based on their unique background without agreeing with their position. Use “and” instead of “but”: Using the word “but” can be invalidating to the other person, whereas “and” leaves room for both perspectives. The “One Partner, One Complaint, One Day” Rule: To prevent blame-shifting, only one person gets to bring up an issue per day. The talking partner must use non-critical language, and the listening partner is only allowed to use phrases like, “I hear you. I understand. And I’m listening.” Take an immediate timeout: After the complaint is made, the listening partner should take a timeout (up to 24 hours) to calm their nervous system and avoid a defensive trauma response. The Empathy Flip: When formulating a response, write it down and ask: Is it kind? Is it loving? Is it respectful? Imagine how you would feel receiving that exact response, and revise it if it sounds triggering. Ultimately, the goal is to consistently fight to understand your partner rather than fighting to be understood. Even if a loved one ultimately chooses to step away from the Church, it is important to trust the Atonement and recognize that they will remember your ability to keep loving them. Returning to Church on Your Own Terms A question from a 49-year-old listener with autism, “I Love Christ,” said he wants to return to Church but finds the two-hour block completely draining. What advice would you give? I offered advice for anyone feeling overwhelmed by church activity: Take breaks and ease into it: If church is stressing you out, it’s perfectly fine to step out or make your own personal study out of the time. Do what you enjoy: Bring a book to read during class, or hang out in the hallway to socialize about something else if that makes the experience more enjoyable. Don’t take everything literally: When faced with difficult scriptural or historical narratives, remember that not everything needs to be viewed through a strictly literal lens. Give and expect grace: It can be frustrating to sit through lessons that feel overly simplistic or lack nuance, but it is vital to offer grace to those at different levels of spiritual maturity, and to help teach them to give you grace in return. Is faith crisis still a problem? What advice do you have?

Orthodox Easter this year was a week later than Western Christianity. I was able to take a unique journey into Orthodox Easter traditions and the historical resilience of early Christianity. https://youtu.be/h8xYSNU9e6o It was a fascinating experience to visit St. Mary’s Coptic Orthodox Church in Clearfield, Utah, after meeting a California member named Daniel Michalski. Unlike Western traditions, the Coptic Easter service is held on Saturday night and can last up to four hours, featuring a blend of English, Coptic, and Arabic chanting. One of the most striking rituals is the procession of the icon of Christ, which is buried in roses during Holy Week and then “resurrected” as the lights are turned on, accompanied by the unique sound of cymbals. Beyond the personal experience, we dove into the history of the Coptic Church, which split from Western Christianity in 451 AD following the Council of Chalcedon over complex theological debates regarding the nature of Christ. This history is framed within a broader discussion of the early Christian era, moving from the movement’s roots as a persecuted sect to its establishment as the Roman state religion under Constantine. Most Mormons are familiar with the death and resurrection of Christ and Constatine’s ascension in the 4th century,  but know little about history of Christianity in the centuries in between. I discussed various early factions, such as the Gnostics, who prioritized secret wisdom over the physical resurrection, with the orthodox view that eventually triumphed. We also touched on the following key points: LDS Perspectives: We emphasized the physical resurrection of Jesus, citing recent General Conference messages regarding the victory of the empty tomb. Calendar Differences: The discrepancy between Western and Orthodox Easter dates were explained by the use of the Julian calendar versus the Gregorian calendar. Coptic Practices: Insights into infant baptism by immersion, the practice of closed communion, and the fact that Coptic priests can be married are also highlighted. Community Highlights: The episode concludes with a book giveaway of Holiness to the Lord and a teaser for a future discussion with Dr Matthew Bowman on the “Christian” roots of basketball.   Part 1: Personal Experience and the Coptic Orthodox Easter Service 0:00 – Introduction and Book Giveaway: 2:00 – Meeting Daniel Michalski: 5:00 – Attending the Coptic Service in Clearfield: attending a four-hour Saturday night Easter service, including observations on the small congregation and the use of English, Coptic, and Arabic. 10:00 – The Resurrection Ritual: An explanation of the dramatic liturgical moment where an icon of Christ is “resurrected” from a bed of roses, accompanied by chanting and cymbals. Part 2: History of Early Christianity 15:00 – The Great Schism of 451: includes a discussion on the Council of Chalcedon and how a theological dispute over a preposition regarding the nature of Christ led the Coptic Church to split from Western Christianity. 19:00 – Historical Jesus and the Temple: The host analyzes the cleansing of the temple as a political act of subversion that directly led to Jesus’s execution. 23:00 – The Crucifixion and Gospel Narratives. 27:00 – Mechanics of Crucifixion. Part 3: Early Factions and the Rise of Orthodoxy 29:00 – The Gnostics and Secret Wisdom, including a mention of the Gospel of Judas. 32:00 – Marcionites and the Canon:. 34:00 – Bishop Irenaeus and “Straight Thinking”: The origins of the term “Orthodox” and the establishment of the four-gospel rule. 37:00 – Eras of Roman Persecution: Christian martyrs, including the story of Perpetua. Part 4: Constantine and the Modern Church 41:00 –Constantine Transformation. 45:00 – LDS Perspectives on Easter. 47:00 – Coptic Practices Explained. Part 5: Conclusion and Teasers 53:00 – Book Giveaway Results. 54:00 – The Future of “Church Ball”: Upcoming interview about the Christian roots of basketball and the role of Mormon missionaries in spreading the sport. 56:00 – Calendar Discrepancies: explanation of why Orthodox Easter often falls on a different date due to the Julian vs. Gregorian calendars.

Janice Allred was excommunicated just over 30 years ago, but still attends the LDS Church!!! Why? She will talk about why she stays, and offer advice to others on how to stay if they want to. We’ll discuss how it affects her family, her testimony, and we’ll even dive into why current polygamy revisionists are getting into trouble with LDS Church leaders. Check out our conversation! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O8H-QXlDPw Why I Stay: Three Decades in the Pews as an Excommunicated Member What does it look like to remain dedicated to a faith community that has formally cast you out? For Janice Allred, a “philosophical theologian” who was excommunicated in 1995, the answer is found in showing up every Sunday for over thirty years. Allred, the sister of fellow scholar Margaret Toscano, was disciplined primarily for her writings on “God the Mother“ and her critiques of church authority, yet she remains a fixture in her local ward. Why Stay? When asked the “Sunstone question” of why she stays, Allred’s first response is simple: “Because I want to”. Her deeper motivations are rooted in her identity as a follower of Jesus Christ, noting that He encouraged His followers to meet together often to strengthen one another. Furthermore, she feels a profound connection to the revelations of Joseph Smith, including the Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants, and wants to worship where those texts are accepted as scripture. From Pariah to Participant The road has not been easy. For the first five to ten years after her excommunication, Allred describes being treated like a “pariah” and was largely ignored by her ward members. She recalls a poignant moment five years in when a fellow ward member simply said “Hello,” and she nearly broke into tears because so few had spoken to her during that time. The turning point was a house fire. While the community struggled to know how to respond to her theological dissent, they knew exactly how to help a family in a physical crisis. Today, she is a regular participant in Sunday school and Relief Society, though she is denied the sacrament, which she describes as the hardest part of her experience. The “Observer” Strategy Allred offers a unique perspective for those struggling with their faith: be an observer. She navigates the tension of hearing things she disagrees with—such as the “adulation” of church leadership or the Proclamation on the Family—by taking a step back and viewing the meetings through a sociological or theological lens. She does not feel the need to agree with everything said from the pulpit to feel that she belongs to the “invisible church” of true followers of Christ. A Different Kind of Fundamentalism Perhaps most surprising is Allred’s stance as a “polygamy revisionist.” Through her theological studies, she became convinced that Joseph Smith neither taught nor practiced polygamy, and she views Section 132 as a later forgery or a text contrary to the gospel. While this view challenges the lineage of authority from Brigham Young, she maintains that her primary goal is seeking what is true according to her own conscience and inspiration. Janice Allred’s journey is a testament to self-authorship in faith. She remains a “member of the ward” in spirit, even if not on the records, proving that for some, the community of Christ is worth the discomfort of dissent. What do you think of Janice’s persistence for 30+ years?

Ben Schilaty, a former BYU Honor Code administrator, is a social work professor and author who discusses his life as a gay Latter-day Saint. He details his professional background, and his current work with the Gather Conference. Schilaty shares his personal faith journey, explaining how he reconciles his sexual orientation with his commitment to the Church through prayer and personal revelation. He advocates for radical empathy and honoring the individual agency of LGBTQ members, whether they choose to stay in or leave the faith. Throughout the conversation, he emphasizes the importance of sincere listening and building supportive communities where diverse experiences are validated. https://youtu.be/EzjYxEAfsYs Don’t miss our other LDS Faith Journeys: https://gospeltangents.com/tag/lds-faith-journeys/ Ben Schilaty: Navigating Faith and Identity Ben Schilaty is a professor of social work at Utah Valley University and author of A Walk in My Shoes. He shared a deeply personal look at his life as a gay Latter-day Saint. Schilaty, who humorously describes himself as “fame-ish” due to the parasocial relationships readers and listeners have formed with him, offers a unique perspective on the intersection of faith, identity, and belonging. Journey of Three Stages Ben describes his internal journey in three distinct phases. In his 20s, he felt “broken” and believed he needed to be “fixed” to fit the mold of a traditional Latter-day Saint marriage. In his early 30s, the pendulum swung, and he felt that if he couldn’t change, perhaps the Church had to change. Today, he focuses on “living in what is,” a practice of accepting reality as it is to find health and happiness. A pivotal moment in this journey occurred when Ben nearly left the Church after a painful heartbreak. Despite his parents’ full support and their promise to honor his agency regardless of his choice, a prayerful encounter with Matthew 26 changed his path. Reflecting on Christ’s prayer in Gethsemane, Ben felt a “clear and very annoying prompting” that his “cup” was to live his life within the teachings of the Church—a choice that transformed his religious practice from a burden into something life-giving. BYU Honor Code Providing a rare look into his four years as an Honor Code administrator at BYU, Ben dispels common myths about the office. While many assume the office is preoccupied with “morality” or LGBTQ+ issues, Ben notes that same-sex romantic behavior reports were uncommon, occurring only about ten times a year. Instead, the vast majority of his work involved academic dishonesty, plagiarism, and timecard theft. Building Bridges: The Gather Conference Ben is a co-founder of the Gather conference, a Christ-centered support system for LGBTQ+ Latter-day Saints and their allies. He describes it as a “middle space” compared to other organizations like Affirmation or Northstar. Gather serves a diverse group—about 80-90% of whom are active in the Church—including those in same-sex marriages, those choosing celibacy, and parents or leaders seeking to understand their loved ones better. Radical Acceptance and the Power of Story A major theme of the discussion was radical acceptance and honoring the agency of others. Ben emphasizes that: Listening is a Christlike act: Allies should listen to and validate the pain of those who feel they must leave the Church for their mental health. Forgiveness brings peace: Ben shared a powerful story of inviting a former Stake President over for dinner to find personal peace after a disagreement regarding his temple recommend. Prescription for Revelation: He warns against using his story as a “blueprint” for others, noting that God speaks to us as individuals and we each have our own “prescription” for personal revelation. Ben’s final invitation to the audience is simple: instead of just reading his book or listening to his podcast, invite the LGBTQ+ people in your own life to tell you their stories. What do you think of Ben’s experience as an active, gay Latter-day Saint? 0:00 Introduction/Background 1:58 Faith and Identity 3:11 Turning Point and Parental Support 6:36 Supporting LGBTQ Members Who Leave 14:01 BYU Honor Code Office16:11 Religious Policy and Universal Standards 20:00 Celestial Kingdom Questions and Future Doctrine 34:28 Elder Clark Gilbert’s Call 39:10 Radical Acceptance and Social Work Philosophy 41:07 Gather Conference and Support Organizations 46:36 Accusations of Complicity 49:48 Social Work Training and Church History 54:22 Listening to Individual Stories Check out LDS Faith Journeys website.

Jim Bennett’s idea for sustainable and honest faith includes a theological argument that recognizing the fallibility of religious leaders is not just a mistake to be acknowledged, but a central purpose of mortality and the plan of salvation. He suggests that a sustainable faith must be rooted in truth rather than the “demigod” status often assigned to prophets. Jim is the host of Inside Out where he discusses faith with Ian Wilks, someone on the outside of the LDS Church. https://youtu.be/HPT5NHVDWg4 Jim Bennett is a podcast host, former political candidate, and descendant of prominent leaders in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. His personal and family history is deeply intertwined with Utah’s religious and political landscape, which serves as the foundation for his current work in faith reconciliation and political centrism. Family and Political Background The Bennett family history in Utah began with Jim’s great-great-grandfather, Richard Bennett, who traveled to Utah but initially refused to join the Church. After a fire destroyed his savings, he famously clashed with Brigham Young and chose to settle in Salt Lake City rather than Bear Lake. His son, John F. Bennett, eventually joined the Church and founded the Bennett Glass and Paint Company. Jim comes from a long line of Republican politicians; his grandfather, Wallace Bennett, and his father, Bob Bennett, both served as U.S. Senators from Utah. Jim ran his father’s final campaign in 2010, which was marked by controversy over the TARP vote and resulted in a loss. This experience, combined with a dissatisfaction with the changing Republican Party, led him to co-found the United Utah Party, a centrist third party. He later ran for Congress and for Mayor of Sandy as a centrist candidate. Faith and Religious Work Jim is widely known within the LDS community for his line-by-line reply to the “CES Letter,” a document outlining various criticisms of Church history and doctrine. His response, which has been downloaded over 200,000 times, focuses on building a “sustainable faith” by acknowledging difficult issues rather than dismissing them. He hosts the “Inside Out” podcast with Ian Wilks, a former member of the Church. The podcast aims to facilitate productive dialogue between faithful members and those who have left, avoiding the polarization often found in religious discourse. Jim was also a producer for the docuseries “An Inconvenient Faith,” which explores how individuals maintain their faith while confronting challenging aspects of Church history. Key Philosophies A central theme of Jim’s work is the concept of prophetic fallibility. He argues that viewing prophets as infallible “demigods” creates an unsustainable faith; instead, he believes the “central purpose of mortality” is to learn from mistakes. He asserts that: Trust over certainty: The current “faith crisis” many experience is actually a trust crisis caused by the institution’s perceived lack of transparency regarding its history. Honesty as a solution: He believes the Church would be healthier if it publicly apologized for past mistakes, such as the priesthood ban, to build long-term trust. Inclusivity: He advocates for a broader “big tent” approach to Mormonism, arguing that members should not be excommunicated for holding unorthodox views, such as polygamy skepticism/revisionism, as long as they remain committed to their covenants. Jim is also a member of the Tabernacle Choir at Temple Square and continues to engage in online discourse, despite facing significant harassment from both critics and orthodox members on social media platforms. What are your thoughts on Jim’s perspective? Have you visited LDS Faith Journeys? Care to share your journey? What advice do you have for others to maintain their faith in a crisis? Is it really a trust crisis? Don’t miss our other faith journeys: https://gospeltangents.com/tag/lds-faith-journeys/    

Rick B (host of Gospel Tangents and LDS Faith Journeys) interviews Josh Gehly, an Evangelist for The Church of Jesus Christ (historically known as the Bickertonites), during Josh’s visit to Salt Lake City. Josh reveals that The Church of Jesus Christ has a small but growing domestic presence, including a mission in Salt Lake City. The church reports significant international growth, particularly in Africa, while noting that the domestic church maintains a close-knit, “lowarchy” structure where leaders are servants rather than prophets. The conversation highlights significant theological divergences between the “Bickertonite” church and the mainstream LDS Church. Josh clarifies that his church is strictly anti-polygamy, viewing the practice as a sin, though they welcome members with varying historical views on whether Joseph Smith actually practiced it. They also reject the LDS concepts of eternal marriage, becoming gods (exaltation), and a Heavenly Mother, adhering instead to a more traditional view of the Godhead and the Bible/Book of Mormon. However, they are a “charismatic” faith, believing in and practicing spiritual gifts such as speaking in tongues, visions, and miracles. Throughout the Q&A with the live audience, we addressed sensitive topics including LGBTQ+ issues—which Josh’s church views as sinful—and the challenges of maintaining faith in a secular world. Despite these differences, the dialogue emphasizes mutual respect, the centrality of Jesus Christ, and the value of interfaith friendship. https://youtu.be/Y-9jR1lEqYs Don’t miss our other Tangent Trips! https://gospeltangents.com/denominations/bickertonites Copyright © 2026 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Growth and Identity While the church maintains a modest domestic presence of about 3,000 members, it has seen substantial international growth, with current global numbers estimated well above 30,000. Recently, the church has established a small but active mission in Salt Lake City, holding meetings in locations ranging from hotel conference rooms to a local ninja gym. Josh clarified that although they revere the Book of Mormon, they do not identify as “Mormon,” preferring to be known strictly as The Church of Jesus Christ to emphasize their foundation in Christ rather than in any man. A Strict Stance on Polygamy One of the most significant distinctions between The Church of Jesus Christ and the LDS Church is their historic and unwavering opposition to polygamy. Josh explained that they view polygamy as a sin and have held this stance since the days of William Bickerton. Interestingly, the church remains a “refuge” for those with differing historical views; Josh noted that their “pews are open” to everyone, whether they believe Joseph Smith practiced polygamy or not, because their faith is contingent on Jesus Christ, not the actions of Joseph Smith. Church Structure and Spiritual Gifts The church’s organization consists of 12 living apostles and 70 evangelists, as well as elders, teachers, and deacons. Notably, they also ordain deaconesses, a role they support through New Testament precedents. A hallmark of their worship is a “radical belief in the ministry of the spirit,” which includes the active presence of spiritual gifts such as prophecy, dreams, and the gift of tongues. Josh shared that while these manifestations do not necessarily happen every Sunday, they are a vital, living part of their “charismatic” tradition. Scripture: Inspired but Not Inerrant Regarding scripture, the church utilizes the King James Version of the Bible and the Book of Mormon. Their view on these texts is that they are “inspired but not inerrant,” acknowledging that while the revelations are divine, they are recorded by “imperfect people” and may contain the “mistakes of men.” They do not utilize the Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible, preferring to stick to the King James Version for the sake of unity. A Simple, Core Faith Ultimately, the church prides itself on a “simple core truth” and a “lowarchy” leadership style focused on humble service rather than titles. Whether meeting in established buildings or temporary hotel spaces, their goal is to provide a spiritual home where the “pure living water” of the gospel is accessible to all. Don’t miss our other Tangent Trips! https://gospeltangents.com/denominations/bickertonites Copyright © 2026 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved