Let's Talk! with authors Bill Watkins and Corey Piper

In our previous episode, Tierre’s Choice, we saw how her decision to continue the pregnancy carried a profound assumption: that the unborn baby is a human being—a person of equal value and worthy of protection.In this episode, What is a Human?, we’re going to examine exactly why the unborn child is a human person deserving of our protection.The abortion industry works hard to convince us that the unborn are not persons and therefore not worthy of legal or moral protection. They insist abortion should never trouble our conscience because, in their view, the unborn are neither human nor persons in any meaningful biological or legal sense.But philosophy, science, religion, and metaphysics all point in the opposite direction.That’s why we need to clearly explain why the unborn child is, in fact, a person—a human being—fully worthy of protection.In this conversation, we’ll discover that a person is a subjective center of intelligence, intention, and emotion. In other words, a person is a “who” that thinks, wills, and feels.There is so much more to say, so please listen in and join one of the most important conversations we should have!

The heart of the episode is Corey's raw, personal testimony of his first wife, Tierre, whose life exemplified agape in its purest, most Christ-like form. Diagnosed with rare Eisenmenger's syndrome during pregnancy—a condition involving a reversed heart shunt and severe oxygen deprivation—the medical consensus offered grim odds: roughly 50% maternal survival with abortion (and certain fetal death), versus higher risk carrying to term. Yet Tierre, rooted in her trust in God's sovereignty and the equal value of every image-bearer, chose to carry her daughter Faye to full term. Her journals reveal a maturing faith: wrestling with fear, yet declaring, "The question is not why, but who"—trusting the sovereign God who made her "for a soul and sole purpose."This was no naive recklessness but faithful stewardship: five and a half months of strict bed rest in a Seattle hospital, prolonged suffering, and ultimate sacrifice. Miraculously, Faye was born healthy (though tiny), and Tierre lived four more days to hold her newborn—embodying Philippians 2's self-emptying love and John 15's "greater love has no one than this: to lay down one's life for one's friends." Faye thrives today, married with children, bearing fruit from Tierre's choice that echoes into generations.

The heart of the episode is Corey's raw, personal testimony of his first wife, Tierre, whose life exemplified agape in its purest, most Christ-like form. Diagnosed with rare Eisenmenger's syndrome during pregnancy—a condition involving a reversed heart shunt and severe oxygen deprivation—the medical consensus offered grim odds: roughly 50% maternal survival with abortion (and certain fetal death), versus higher risk carrying to term. Yet Tierre, rooted in her trust in God's sovereignty and the equal value of every image-bearer, chose to carry her daughter Faye to full term. Her journals reveal a maturing faith: wrestling with fear, yet declaring, "The question is not why, but who"—trusting the sovereign God who made her "for a soul and sole purpose."This was no naive recklessness but faithful stewardship: five and a half months of strict bed rest in a Seattle hospital, prolonged suffering, and ultimate sacrifice. Miraculously, Faye was born healthy (though tiny), and Tierre lived four more days to hold her newborn—embodying Philippians 2's self-emptying love and John 15's "greater love has no one than this: to lay down one's life for one's friends." Faye thrives today, married with children, bearing fruit from Tierre's choice that echoes into generations.

This episode explores the profound nature of divine love, the importance of law and accountability, and a powerful personal story of sacrificial love through the experience of Tierre, a young woman facing a life-threatening pregnancy. It emphasizes how true love aligns with divine principles and the transformative power of love in difficult circumstances. This episode features Corey Piper sharing a powerful story of faith, sacrifice, and hope through the life and death of Tierre. It explores themes of love, obedience to God, and the ultimate victory over death through Christ.

This three minute clip explores how love is often misinterpreted in political discourse, emphasizing the importance of understanding biblical texts and the role of government in enforcing justice. The full episode is here: https://creators.spotify.com/pod/profile/corey-piper3/episodes/Law-and-Love--Lets-Talk-Ep--6-e3f9jvp Christians are commanded to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, give water to the thirsty, welcome in the stranger, and visit the prisoner--these are all beautiful things that every Christian adores and seeks to obey. But nowhere in Jesus' parable in Matthew 25 does Jesus exempt people from following the law. Indeed, Jesus is standing at the borders of heaven welcoming in some and rejecting others based on a clearly articulated expectation. It seems ironic that a parable about Jesus securing the borders of heaven is frequently used to condemn Americans who want to secure our borders. In other words, there is nothing evil about enforcing borders or expecting people from other countries to be respectful and follow our laws. Jesus doesn't condemn that in this parable, he illustrates it.

This conversation delves into the complex relationship between love, law, and politics, particularly in the context of immigration and biblical teachings. The speakers explore how love is often misinterpreted in political discourse, emphasizing the importance of understanding biblical texts and the role of government in enforcing justice. They discuss the concept of agape love, its implications for societal behavior, and the necessity of a shared moral framework in maintaining a cohesive society. The dialogue also touches on the challenges posed by differing interpretations of love and law in contemporary America.*Love your neighbor as yourself is a biblical command.*Biblical texts on love must be interpreted in context.*Respect for the law is essential for immigrants.*Agape love is a divine gift that requires understanding.*Justice is a fundamental role of government.*Misinterpretation of love can lead to societal chaos.*Shared morality is crucial for a united nation.*Love should not exempt individuals from legal consequences.*Political discourse often misuses biblical teachings.*True Christianity respects individual accountability before God.Chapters00:00 Exploring Love in Political Contexts01:59 Biblical Interpretations of Love and Law03:49 The Role of Foreigners in Mosaic Law05:22 Respecting Laws as a Form of Love07:01 The New Testament Perspective on Love10:02 Agape Love: A Deeper Understanding11:36 Misuse of Biblical Passages in Political Discourse13:57 The Nature of True Love and Justice16:04 The Complexity of Love in Different Contexts17:52 The Distinction of Love in Greek Language19:28 The Misapplication of Love in Political Arguments21:10 Lawfulness and Love in Society23:27 The Role of Christians in Upholding Justice25:31 The Nature of Government and Representation26:36 Navigating Unjust Laws and Moral Responsibility28:33 The Role of Factions in American Democracy29:39 The Dangers of Ideological Extremism29:41 Constitutional Integrity and Political Rhetoric31:48 The Threat of Authoritarianism34:54 Love, Justice, and Government's Role37:57 Shared Morality and Community40:59 The Nature of True Conversion42:25 The Path Forward for America44:22 Let's Talk Outro Video Audio2.mp4

Monotheism is the original religion. This is a clip from our longer episode about Worldviews, episode 5.

In this episode of Let's Talk, hosts Corey Piper and Bill Watkins unpack the power of worldview analysis, drawing from Bill’s co-authored book Worlds Apart with Norman Geisler. They explore the seven (and arguably eight) major worldviews—centering on humanity’s ultimate question: Is there a God, many gods, or no God at all?—and demonstrate how understanding these frameworks prevents talking past one another in conversations about faith. From atheism’s materialist despair to pantheism’s dissolution of the self, polytheism’s finite gods (including a sharp look at Mormon theology), and panentheism’s evolving deity, the discussion contrasts these with robust Christian theism. The episode shows why a “thick” Christian worldview withstands relentless modern challenges, from public education’s evangelistic atheism to the irrational anger of those who rail against a good God while ignoring their own participation in evil. Tying in contemporary American flashpoints—like the 2025 assassination of Charlie Kirk and the courage that martyrdom reveals—the conversation affirms that true conversion often begins with cracks in unsatisfying worldviews, illuminated by God’s Spirit, historical evidence, and the unchanging truth of Scripture.

Ancient Egyptians had a concept of evolution and deep time very similar to today's world. Genesis advances a very different concept of creation, and one that conflicts not only with our modern world but also with the ancient world. Listen to the full episode on Spotify: Ancient Egypt and Evolution: Ep. 4 Let's Talk, Conversations about life, faith, and culture with authors Bill Watkins and Corey Piper.

This is a robust, biblically grounded case against evolution that emphasizes both the authority of God’s Word and the evidence of design in creation.Bill Watkins’s believes that 1. Genesis is historical narrative, not mythThe repeated “toledoth” (“these are the generations/account of”) phrases (11 times in Genesis) indicate historical records passed down on clay tablets, compiled by Moses. This structure identifies real authors (God, Adam, etc.) and refutes claims that Genesis is mere mythology copied from Babylon or Egypt.2. The days of Genesis are solar days but days of revelation, not creationGenesis 1 has an inverted chiastic structure (day 1 ↔ day 4, day 2 ↔ day 5, etc.), with the Sabbath rest as the climax. The “evening and morning” formula likely marks the end of each day of revelation to Adam, not the duration of creative acts. This allows the sequence to match broad scientific findings (light before stars, land before sea creatures, etc.) without requiring billions of years of evolution.3. No life from non-life; no kinds evolving into other kindsGenesis clearly teaches God directly creates life; life does not emerge from non-life by chance. “After their kind” sets fixed boundaries — micro-evolution (variation within kinds) is real, but macro-evolution (one kind to another) has no evidence and contradicts Scripture.4. Chance cannot explain complexity; design is obviousThe fine-tuning of the universe and the staggering complexity of life (e.g., DNA) point unmistakably to an intelligent Designer. Even non-Christian scientists (Fred Hoyle, Chandra Wickramasinghe) concluded life arising by chance is statistically impossible (like a tornado assembling a 747 from junk).Summary of Bill's arguments. Theistic evolution is refuted scientifically, philosophically, and biblically. Bill recommends the book Theistic Evolution (2017) as a comprehensive refutation by scientists, philosophers, and biblical scholars.Corey Piper argues that 1. Genesis teaches rapid, literal creation in six daysExegetically, Moses intentionally presents creation as six literal 24-hour days followed by a Sabbath rest (Genesis 1; Exodus 20:11). This is not merely poetic or symbolic; it is a historical narrative meant to convey that God created everything quickly and miraculously. The pattern of “evening and morning” and the repeated “after their kind” emphasize immediate, complete creation of distinct kinds, not gradual development.2. Everything reproduces “after their kind” — observed fact, not evolutionGenesis 1 repeatedly states that plants and animals reproduce “after their kind” — a statement perfectly confirmed by observation (dogs produce dogs, cattle produce cattle). There is no evidence of one kind changing into another kind (no observed macro-evolution or speciation across kinds). Hybrids like ligers or mules are sterile and do not produce new kinds.3. Ancient cultures (especially Egypt) already believed in deep time and gradual emergence. Egyptian creation myths (e.g., the Book of Knowing the Evolutions of Ra) describe gods emerging from primeval matter over indefinite long periods (“hentii periods”). Moses, raised in Pharaoh’s court, deliberately contrasts this with Genesis: God is eternal (“I AM”), creates ex nihilo in six days, and speaks everything into immediate existence — directly refuting the deep-time, gradual-evolution worldview of Egypt and of evolution.4. Jesus and the New Testament affirm Genesis as historicalJesus refers to creation “from the beginning” (Mark 10:6) and upholds male and female as originally created. The genealogies in Genesis 5 and 10 give a short timeline from Adam, supporting a young-earth framework.

In this conversation, Bill Watkins and Corey Piper delve into the existence of God, the creation narrative, and the debate surrounding evolution. They discuss the limitations of Darwin's theories, the challenges of explaining the origin of life, and the implications of intelligent design versus naturalistic evolution. The dialogue also touches on philosophical arguments against atheism, the nature of truth, and the importance of humility in knowledge. They explore the age of the earth from biblical perspectives and the need for a creator in understanding existence, while also addressing the problem of evil and human responsibility. The conversation concludes with reflections on Mark Twain's views on God and the importance of ongoing discussions about creation and theology.

In this conversation, Corey Piper and Bill Watkins explore the complexities surrounding the existence of God, the influence of family and culture, and the personal experiences that shape belief. They discuss the nature of God, the problem of evil, and the challenges of converting from one worldview to another. The dialogue emphasizes the importance of understanding different perspectives and the emotional aspects of faith, while also addressing the philosophical underpinnings of belief systems. The conversation concludes with a discussion of resources for further exploration of these themes.TakeawaysThe existence of God is often a personal struggle influenced by family and culture.Experiential evidence often outweighs intellectual objections to belief in God.God's nature includes both love and hate, which are not contradictory.The problem of evil raises questions about human responsibility and divine justice.Conversion involves a significant shift in worldview, not just a minor adjustment.Understanding different worldviews is crucial for meaningful dialogue.God's love is consistent and unchanging, even in the face of human sin.Judgment is necessary for justice and understanding of good and evil.Resources like books can help explore complex theological and philosophical ideas.The emotional aspect of faith is as important as intellectual understanding.Chapters00:00 Understanding Different Conceptions of God07:19 The Deception of Photography and Spiritualism09:06 The Intersection of Science and Theism09:50 The Big Bang and Evidence for God11:03 Experiential Evidence of God15:14 Personal Experiences of God18:11 The Problem of Evil and God's Nature26:08 God's Emotions: Love and Hate32:17 The Fall and Human Rebellion40:50 The Nature of Free Will and Human Choice43:30 The Concept of Judgment in a Moral Universe46:25 Understanding Evil and God's Grace49:18 The Importance of Truth and Justice52:22 Conviction of Sin and the Gospel Message55:03 Worldviews and the Conversion Experience58:37 The Structure of Worldviews and Their Differences01:03:41 Engaging with Different Worldviews01:08:38 The Legacy of Christian Doctrine and Literature

Corey talks with Bill about his journey from atheist jazz drummer to Jesus + why legitimate authority is breaking down in 2025.⏰ Timestamps (chapters)00:00 Opening Banter & Trailer  00:17 The Chuck Swindoll “Put the Notebook Away” Story  04:40 Authenticity in Preaching vs. Performance Preaching  07:08 Why Chuck Was Always the Same Man in the Pulpit  09:20 Musicians Influencing Musicians – The Conversation on Stage  11:36 Why it's Difficult for Great Artists to “Update” Their Sound  14:21 John Coltrane, Buddy Rich, and the Musician’s Musician  20:29 From Rock to Hard Rock to Jazz – Bill’s Drummer Journey  26:55 60s–70s Protests: “Isn’t This Groovy, Man?”  31:50 Authority vs. Authoritarianism – First Principles  37:43 What Makes Authority Good (and God the Best)  44:14 Authority, the Common Good, and the Five Solas ✝️  49:14 God’s Role in All Legitimate Authority  58:20 The Authority of God Alone (Soli Deo Gloria)  01:02:39 How to Have Real Conversations in a Polarized Age  01:07:12 Bill’s Journey to Faith – From Atheist Drummer to Jesus  01:12:02 The Wild Diversity of Conversion Stories  01:16:16 Intellectual Objections, Moral Rebellion, and Real Guilt  01:22:44 Facing the Reality of Good and Evil  01:28:33 Musical Memories That Still Hit Hard  01:29:54 Rousseau vs. the Founding Fathers – The Core Clash  01:34:00 The Role of Authority in a Healthy Society  01:39:27 Why the Constitution Is Still Relevant in 2025  01:45:39 The Value-System Battle We’re Actually In  01:47:12 Closing Thoughts & FarewellSubscribe for future episodes.