Market Proof Marketing

Rachel Peters joins the podcast to share her career journey from a college intern at Hershey Entertainment and Resorts to her current role at Realtor.com New Construction. The conversation covers lessons from working in large marketing organizations, the value of diverse internship experiences, her time at Keystone Custom Homes, and her perspective on what home builders consistently get wrong with their digital marketing.Early Career LessonsRachel talks about her 5 college internships across companies of varying sizes before landing at Hershey Entertainment and Resorts, where she was part of a 40-person marketing team, got media trained as a fresh grad, and handled real crisis communications. Being surrounded by so many different marketing specialists taught her the value of mastering a single craft deeply, and showed her how broad marketing is as a discipline. A Strong Builder-Side Perspective Rachel spent significant time on the builder side with Keystone Custom Homes before moving to her current role, which she considers invaluable for having effective conversations with builders now. She dives deeper into the top two things that builders often overlook:Understanding where traffic comes from. Many builders don't know their traffic sources with any real specificity.UTM codes and tracking. There is still a large portion of the industry that doesn’t have a working understanding of UTM parameters or how to connect digital touchpoints to outcomes.She also raises a practical issue many builders still struggle with: image order in listing feeds. Monument or exterior photos often end up as the first image everywhere, including on third-party sites, which may not always be the best approach. Foundational Skills > AI ToolsKevin references a LinkedIn post about a Claude product priced at $100,000/month to replace a marketing team, and uses it to underscore an important irony: some builders are chasing AI tools while still unclear on what UTM codes are. The two then talk about how you can't get full value from advanced tools without having the foundational basics in place. You must understand the customer's digital journey and what data is and isn't visible before layering on anything sophisticated.Follow Rachel on LinkedInhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/rachelhbpeters/

Kevin is joined by Beth, Caroline, and a special guest to discuss the importance of leveraging internal teams for great content ideas and the benefits of using AI tools for content automation, while ensuring that human expertise is still used.They also get into defending your foundation, tools, and strategies in a noisy market with less-than-hopeful headlines.Story Time:Beth - Trust your foundationCaroline - Do one thing at a timeKevin - Fact-check the headlinesAnnouncements:Market Proof Marketing Academy - 3 Virtual Days - July 7-9 - Limited spots available, register today to elevate your marketing expertise.DYC Online Sales and Marketing Summit - Austin, Texas - October 1-2 - Over 150 tickets are already gone! Secure your spot today.In the News:Your OSC Team is Sitting on a Content GoldmineHow I Do Content Engineering with Claude CodeGoogle Tests ‘Ask YouTube’ Conversational Search Experiment

Kevin is joined by Julie and Beth to discuss why giving people less might actually get you further, why the way you've always looked at your data could be quietly costing you, and what separates the builders who move fast from the ones who are still waiting for that "perfect" buyer. There is also a discussion about if the market is actually struggling, or if it just feels that way, and a conversation about Google's latest ad updates and miscommunications. Story Time:Julie - Don't be a comment thiefBeth - Shift your perspective. Kevin - Public Builders vs Private BuildersAnnouncements:DYC Online Sales and Marketing Summit - Austin, Texas - Over 100 tickets are already gone, secure your spot today.In the News:We’re upgrading Dynamic Search Ads to AI MaxPending Home Sales Increased in March Despite Rising Mortgage Rates and Gas PricesMarch New-Home Sales Slide as Geopolitics Spook BuyersGoogle adds Read more links best practices

Julie Jarnagin is joined by Jackie Lipinski and Caroline Collard to talk about why some of the oldest ideas in marketing are still winning, why some marketers are hesitant to use newer tools, and what happens when a home builder decides to stop playing it safe.Story Time:Caroline - Creating demand for the Flying SquirrelsJackie - Saving minutes, not hours, with AIJulie - Summit ExcitementAnnouncements:DYC Online Sales and Marketing Summit - Austin, Texas - Over 100 tickets are already gone, secure your spot today.In the News:Google Chrome Skills Turn Gemini Prompts Into Reusable WorkflowsA closer look at OpenAI’s ads manager – and how much work it still needsThe Cockroach of Marketing Concepts Will Never Die Google: We May Use Spam Report Submissions For Manual ActionsA look at Taylor Morrison’s eye-catching marketing campaign

Kevin is joined by Julie and Caroline to discuss an online sales specialist juggling cookies and conversion rates, increasing ad spend as a reflex, and throwing resources at problems without first figuring out what the problem actually is.There is also a friendly debate around AI content strategy that ultimately lands somewhere simple: be clear, direct and useful, and the rest will follow.Story Time:Julie - College visits are a masterclass in customer experienceCaroline - Get a fresh perspective if something’s not workingKevin - Putting money into your problems doesn’t always solve themAnnouncements:DYC Online Sales and Marketing Summit - Austin, Texas - Tickets Now AvailableIn the News:An OSC's Guide to Time ManagementHow to design content that AI systems prefer and promoteIs Now a Good Time to Buy a House?Spring housing market accelerates despite mortgage rate spike, Zillow's March Market Report shows

Julie Jarnagin joins Jackie Lipinski and Beth Russell to talk about practical challenges marketers face with communication and data storytelling, and the importance of getting out from behind the desk to understand the home buying experience from the customer’s perspective.Hear why strong marketers should combine data, empathy, and real-world insight into consistent messaging and compelling stories to build trust and drive results, despite the doom-and-gloom headlines out there!Story Time: Beth - Building (and not eroding) trust with customers over timeJackie - ChatGPT vs ChatGPT - are you asking the right questions?Julie - Marketers need to “touch grass” and connect their consumers experiencesAnnouncements:Market Proof Marketing Academy - Virtual Event - Register Now - July 7-9, 2026DYC Online Sales and Marketing Summit - Austin, Texas - Tickets Available - October 1-2, 2026In the news: The 5 Rules to Data StorytellingApple prepares to add search ads to Apple MapsOver Half of Home Listings Have Been Lingering on the Market For More Than 2 MonthsDigital-First Buyers Reshape Model Home Design

In what may be the biggest guest episode of the year, Rand Fishkin, Co-founder and CEO of SparkToro, joins the podcast to talk about AI's role in search results and the importance of navigating the complexities and misinformation within digital marketing - especially around AI tools.Rand brings the research and the reality check on how AI is reshaping search, exposing why its recommendations can fall short and why Google still holds the upper hand. Backed by years of experience and research, Rand cuts through the hype to show what’s actually changing (and what isn’t), from zero-click search to the murky world of AI visibility. It’s a sharp look at modern marketing - and a reminder that trusting platforms blindly is a losing strategy.AI Brand Recommendation ChallengesThey examine how AI-generated recommendations often exclude well-established brands, suggesting that visibility in AI tools isn’t solely driven by traditional marketing performance. For niche and local industries, this creates uncertainty around what actually influences AI inclusion.Geographic Search Intent and AI LimitationsUsing specific geographic search terms improves clarity of buyer intent, particularly for homebuilders, but AI tools still struggle to deliver consistent, reliable recommendations. Google’s deterministic model may offer more dependable results compared to probabilistic AI outputs.AI's Impact on Search BehaviorWhile AI adoption grows, click-through rates from traditional search continue to decline, increasing the importance of zero-click visibility. Kevin and Rand discuss the limits of panel data in measuring behavior and the challenges of accurately interpreting industry-specific trends.Read more of Rand’s Researchhttps://sparktoro.com/blog/new-research-ais-are-highly-inconsistent-when-recommending-brands-or-products-marketers-should-take-care-when-tracking-ai-visibility/Follow Rand on LinkedInhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/randfishkin/Learn More about GiveDirectlyhttps://www.givedirectly.org/

Host Kevin Oakley is joined by Beth Russell and Caroline Collard to talk about birthday pancakes for dinner, balancing structure and flexibility in marketing strategies, and how prioritizing the top of the funnel doesn’t ensure better results.They also discuss a new pricing tool for builders and its use for data-informed decision making throughout the home sales process, and how to combat “content decay” by intentionally refreshing content, not always reinventing it.Story Time: Caroline - A quick, but confident, home buying processBeth - Steer clear of the rinse and repeat cycleKevin - Optimizing for leads isn’t always the best ideaAnnouncements:DYC Online Sales and Marketing Summit - Tickets releasing soon - October 1-2, 2026In the news: Zillow launches Zillow Preview to bring pre-market home listings into the openZonda Enterprise Accelerator Drives Faster, Smarter Home Selling What Is Content Decay? (And How to Fix It Before It Tanks Your Traffic)

Julie Jarnagin sits down with Beth Russell and Caroline Collard to discuss why homebuyers could be completely ignoring your ads, and why being findable now trumps being rankable (the strategies that worked two years ago aren't cutting it anymore).They also dig into what today's buyers genuinely want in a new home, the growing wave of long-distance relocations, and the early (and murky) buzz around ChatGPT ads, including why builders should think twice before responding to those "invitations" landing in their inboxes.Story Time: Julie - Traditional ads aren't just underperforming; buyers are tuning them out entirelyBeth - Exposure therapy for marketers: Getting comfy with Google adsCaroline - What one first-time buyer's search process reveals about how AI is actually changing homebuyingIn the news: Content alone isn’t enough: Why SEO now requires distributionBuilders gut check what buyers may like vs. what they’ll pay forLong-Distance Moves Tick Up: Nearly 1 in 5 House Hunters Are Looking to RelocateBuilders are receiving spam invites to initiate ChatGPT ads

Host Kevin Oakley joins Julie Jarnagin and Beth Russell to discuss the various forces that are changing how buyers find homes.This episode breaks down why buyers are worried about missing listings, how Compass’s new partnership could reshape the market, and what changing search behavior means for real estate marketing.Story Time:Julie - You steer towards what you’re looking atBeth - Photos aren't enough for your campaignKevin - The REAL reason your web traffic is declining - and why AI is getting blamed.Announcements:Rise and Design - June 24-26, 2026Market Proof Marketing Academy - July 7-9, 2026DYC Summit - More Info Coming Soon - October 1-2, 2026In the news:Compass & Redfin - The Exclusive Listings Battle Heats Up Search Happens Everywhere: New Research From SparkToroNew Google Help Doc About Google's Web Crawling

Julie Jarnagin joins Caroline Collard and Jackie Lipinski to unpack the marketing moves that matter and discuss trust-building content.This episode dives into smart homebuilder strategy: why “unsexy” homes can still win with the right storytelling, how YouTube and influencers may shape AI-driven search results, what shifting homebuyer age data means for targeting, and why overusing obvious AI writing patterns can quietly hurt engagement.Story Time: Julie - Keeping the leads flowing by addressing concerns strategically, not hanging up red tapeJackie - The more money you spend on something, the more certainty you craveCaroline - Presale excitement is back - is it the year of the launch?In the news: Market Proof Marketing AcademyOutshining the FlashyThe Rundown: Why YouTube has become key for brand GEO strategiesThe Typical First-Time Homebuyer Is 35 Years OldThe AI writing tics that hurt engagement: A study

Kendall Thacker, VP of Product at Legacy South, joins host Kevin Oakley and Beth Russell to discuss his experience with a pre-sale event from the strategy behind it to the lessons learned. Legacy South Pre-Sale Event StrategyKendall explained that the event was created to address declining Q4 sales by generating urgency and a sense of scarcity among buyers while showcasing their homes. Model Home Gallery Grand OpeningWith five communities in focus, one new and four underperforming, the Legacy South team repositioned their under-visited model home gallery as a grand opening event. By highlighting new floor plans and hosting it before Thanksgiving, they aimed to create urgency and re-educate buyers on using their model home gallery for their home search.Scarcity Strategy Drives Event InterestKendall and the Legacy South team intentionally closed four communities in December to manufacture scarcity, a bold move that ultimately fueled attendance and urgency. Incentives like $50,000 in savings and $10,000 flex cash, along with strong agent engagement, drove a surge of RSVPs in the final two weeks before the event.Legacy South's Successful Event StrategyKendall described a successful strategy where Legacy South collaborated with a big Nashville influencer to create social proof and drive attendance. The event, held at a model home gallery, featured two large tents - one for a learning center with lenders and design teams, and another for entertainment and food. The event attracted over 250 attendees, resulting in 75 on-site appointments scheduled (plus 10–15 more within 24 hours), with 75% of attendees brand new to the builder.Follow Kendall on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/kendall-thacker/Learn More About 2ft Prostheticshttps://www.2ftprosthetics.org/

Julie Jarnagin joins Caroline Collard and Jackie Lipinski to dive into the nitty gritty details that separate effective marketing from flashy trends and flimsy strategies. From unintended brand messaging in the biggest ads of the year to understanding the halo effect on your brand performance, this episode is full of the kind of compounding analytical attention to detail that actually converts when the market heats up. Listen in to discover where to focus your attention and efforts in this year’s spring market. Story TimeCaroline - We’re still thinking about the ads from the big game, but that’s not always a good thing.Jackie - Don’t underestimate the obsession you can create from a brand loyal person with the right content. Julie - Are marketers judgier about AI, and does it matter? In the NewsThe McMansion Era is over: How American homes have changed in 20 yearsU.S. House votes to pass Housing for the 21st Century ActThe Halo Effect: Your Paid Media Went Offline, Can You Survive Without It?Chrome Extensions That Make Your Life Easier

Host Kevin Oakley joins Jackie Lipinski and Beth Russell to discuss the coming shift from search sessions to decision sessions, the value of attention, the growing importance of giving your audience a clear next step, and the personal pain of clearing your browser cache. If you need a clear next step for your spring marketing plan, listen in for real signals amidst the noise of today’s AI opinions, tactics to avoid the dreaded inventory birthday, and how to hone your messaging to convert locked-in buyers. Story TimeKevin - You can’t get to urgency or action without attention, so start saying something Jackie - Can a marketer really stop in-person disappointment before it starts?Beth - A tale of two interest rates (and the benefits you can’t cuddle up with at night)In the NewsGoogle Local Hotel Photos "Good To Know" AI LabelsThe Shift From Search Sessions To Decision SessionsA surprising share of homeowners have high mortgage rates. Here’s the breakdown

Kevin Oakley welcomes Haley Naebig, Director of Sales at NoviHome, who shares her ins and outs for 2026.The 2026 Ins and Outs List (Home Builder Edition)Haley shares her take on what needs to stay and what needs to go in the housing industry this year.A Customer Experience Horror StoryWe get into Haley's real-life experience with the builder of her current home, and it's not pretty. From warranty issues to bizarre customer service interactions, she reveals what not to do if you want referrals and repeat business.What Actually Counts as "Selling"Kevin and Haley debate what sales actually means in 2026. The conversation touches on prospecting, follow-up, and why some sales managers are still blaming marketing for problems they could solve themselves.The Relationship ProblemWhy do so many builders actively avoid staying in touch with their homeowners? They explore missed opportunities and how to use consistent, helpful communication that keeps the relationship alive.What's Coming from NoviHaley teases some major product releases coming at IBS in Orlando. Plus, she shares what just launched, including co-buyer chat and something called the "Novi Nudge."

Host Kevin Oakley joins Julie Jarnagin and Caroline Collard for a thought-provoking discussion of marketing by design, the importance of diverging perspectives, and a deep-dive into data that dispels the AI attribution hype. Special AnnouncementsKevin will be interviewing Rand Fishkin this February - Please send in your questions about SEO, consumer behavior, and more to [email protected] for the chance to hear Rand and Kevin discuss them live. The DYC team will be at IBS - come find us on Wednesday! Karla is speaking Wednesday morning on a brand panel and Kevin is speaking in the afternoon on Marketing Against the Giants. You don’t want to miss your chance to learn and connect with us in real life.Story TimeCaroline - Spamming doesn’t exist in silos, and neither do your buyersJulie - Doing the boring things right is still the best playKevin - When there’s only one marketing brain at the table, you can’t bridge the gapIn the NewsNew Research: AIs are highly inconsistent when recommending brands or products; marketers should take care when tracking AI visibilityEvery Marketer Says You Need “Taste”. Here’s What That Actually Means

Julie Jarnagin, Beth Russell, and Caroline Collard unpack why intentional marketing matters more than ever for homebuilders. From rethinking how buyers experience model home events to finding smarter ways to guide people toward a decision, this episode focuses on knowing your goal and designing the path to get there. If you've been feeling the rut of defaulting to familiar tactics, this episode will spark innovation and intention to get you to the next level. Story TimeCaroline - Yoga lessons on clear destinations and staying flexible with leading buyers thereBeth - A sneak peek at an upcoming expert lens on events that changes how you think about attention, intention, and impactJulie - How “admin parties” thinking creates experience design for the work no one gets excited aboutIn the NewsTrump signs executive order targeting institutional investorsChatGPT to start showing users ads based on their conversationsSingle-Family Home Size Continues to Decline

Host Kevin Oakley is joined by Jackie Lipinski and Beth Russell for a deep dive into the difference between strategy and intent, the tradeoffs that rule the day, and what you learn from failure.From timeless struggles with SEO, content creation strategy, and letting sales teams be marketers, to the timely news of Redfin's CEO departure and the reigning YouTube SEO advantage, this episode covers wide territory your marketing team needs to know to succeed. Tune in and take notes!Story TimeJackie - An A/B test proves you don’t propose on the first dateBeth - With events, a theme is not a game planKevin - A tale of two seasons (and one counterintuitive winner)In the NewsGlenn Kelman leaves Redfin after 20 years as CEOWhy You Shouldn’t Let Your Onsite Team Create ContentYouTube is no longer optional for SEO in the age of AI OverviewsThe case for and against influencer-led Super Bowl ads

Kevin Oakley is joined by Julie Jarnagin and Caroline Collard for a wide-ranging conversation about the complexities builders can’t escape.From early-year trends to Texas growth markets to President Trump’s latest comments on housing policy, the team leans into the nuance builders actually have to navigate so marketers can face down their challenges with increased clarity and control.Special announcement Guest episodes come with a new charity gift twist in 2026- send in your guest recommendations and nominations to [email protected]. Story TimeCaroline - Growth at DYC and how great marketers are built over timeJulie - Parenting in an NYC subway leads to lessons on patience and pacingKevin - A “brilliant” example of what can happen when experts don’t understand the systems they’re rewiringIn the News2026 PPC Trends to get ahead of nowTexas Triangle drives future of single family homebuilding Trump threatens to ban institutional investors from buying single-family homes

Host Kevin Oakley joins Julie Jarnagin and Beth Russell for a timely conversation about what’s worth your effort in 2026. From Google audience size changes to alleged customer journey changes, this episode is all about right-sizing, prioritizing, and knowing when to say no. If your 2026 to-do list is already growing out of control, this episode will help you find optimal grip on what really matters for your marketing.Story TimeBeth - It's Barbs, not bots, that make difficult processes easy and enjoyableJulie - Catch the excitement that crests in January and turn it into something lastingKevin - When the first 4,000 leads don't work out, do you keep going?In the NewsGoogle lowers audience size limits across AdsMarketing Loves Declaring the End of Things That Still Work The User Journey Isn’t Linear Anymore: It’s Always On

Kevin Oakley, Julie Jarnagin, and Jackie Lipinski are starting 2026 off with fresh takes in this year’s first episode. They discuss multiple mindset hangups, including how to get out of the “cleaning the windows while the house is burning” trap. The team also dives into some of the biggest tech moves and platform plays (or rather replays?) that are sure to shape what happens in 2026. Listen and learn to start your year right.Story TimeJulie – Less is more again this yearJackie – The mindset shift needed for post-peak performanceKevin – The age-old tug of war in company visions must be acknowledged before it can be improvedIn the NewsGoogle’s real estate listings ‘experiment’ sends Zillow shares down more than 8%Google Enters the Portal WarsMeta Is Considering Charging Business Pages To Post Links

Kevin Oakley welcomes Trevor Bacon, Chief Executive Officer of Parcl and Parcl Labs, to examine how real-time real estate data and market-based signals are changing the way housing markets are interpreted. Drawing on financial-market frameworks applied to residential real estate, Trevor explains why traditional pricing indexes often lag reality and how alternative signals—like sentiment and probability—can offer earlier insight. The conversation invites builders and housing leaders to think more critically about timing, risk, and how market narratives are formed.Key ThemesReal-Time Pricing vs. Backward-Looking Housing DataMost housing data describes where the market was, not where risk and opportunity are forming nextIf pricing moves faster than reporting, how many decisions are already outdated by the time they’re made?Treating housing like a slow-moving asset may be the most dangerous assumption builders still holdPrediction Markets and the Future of Market SignalsMarkets reveal more truth when people put capital behind beliefs, not opinionsWhat would change if builders watched probability and sentiment instead of headlines and forecasts?The next competitive advantage may come from understanding expectations, not just transactionsFollow Trevor, Parcel Labs, and Learn MoreTrevor Bacon on LinkedInJason Lewris on LinkedInTampa's Hidden Supply Pipeline: Land Banking Fuels Mounting Market Pressure

Julie Jarnagin, Beth Russell, and Caroline Collard discuss end of year plans, trends, and truths. From major brands’ flops to risky tactics built on good science, the team helps marketers chart a path through end of year planning that leans into what works and away from fads that will only dilute brand reputation in the year ahead.Story TimeBeth – With costs top of mind, buyers need a vision before they’ll fall in love with a homeCaroline – Write down your goals now before the year ahead buries them in busy-nessJulie – Goldilocks-ing content plans for 2026: finding the just-right-ness between structure and flexibilityIn the NewsWhat View/Save Ratios Reveal About Buyer Engagement on Real Estate PortalsMcDonald’s Pulls Down AI-Generated Holiday Ad After Deluge of MockeryBrands look to experiential marketing as antidote to AI slop, digital fatigueNegativity Bias: Why Customers Don’t Want Anything To Do With You (And What To Do About It)Google updates links in AI Mode and expands Web Guide test in all tab

Kevin Oakley and Jackie Lipinski welcome a very special guest into the podcast studio. Caroline Collard is Do You Convert’s newest Marketing Coach, manages the Marketing Strategist team, and is lauded as DYC’s digital strategy secret weapon. With Caroline’s keen perspective in the mix, the team discusses end-of-year campaigns, video trends, 2026 market forecasts, and whether OpenAI goes from red to dead as Google surges ahead. From consumer data use tactics to the trust gained from putting in real work, they share insights on the latest marketing trends and updates, giving homebuilder marketers room to reflect on the strength of their own consumer-facing signals and strategies headed into 2026.Story TimeCaroline – Spotify Wrapped data assumptions: the good, the bad, and the funnyJackie – Brand promos are wearing out their holiday welcome in Jackie’s text messagesKevin – Kevin yearns for signals of effort that grow weaker as simulated intelligence replaces effortful thinkingIn the NewsOpenAI hits pause on ChatGPT ads as CEO declares a ‘code red’Publishers turn to vertical video to compete with creators and grow ad revenue in 2026Zillow economists say the housing market will warm up in 2026, with more sales and modest price growth

Kevin Oakley joins Julie Jarnagin and Beth Russell to discuss the delta between a booming business and simply sending too-busy signals to buyers. The team reflects on why built-in distance through the use of automation and chatbots is bad for business.If solving for attribution headaches, automation concerns, and leveraging limited budget across the right platforms are on your end of year to-do list, this episode will help reveal what matters most to your buyers right now.Special AnnouncementsJust a couple seats left for January’s Market Proof Marketing Academy - don’t wait until it’s too late to save your spot!If you manage Online Sales too, OSA and OSAL are coming up in early 2026 too. Check them out today!Story TimeBeth – Tales from the home-search front: back-in-market woes made worse by AI searchJulie – Doorbusters aren’t busting like they used to, but homebuilder marketers can create urgency where retail lost the plotKevin – Are you sure you can’t respond to everyone who wants to do business with you?In the NewsSellers are taking their homes off the market at the fastest pace in nearly a decadePew: 84% Of Adults Use YouTube As Platform Growth ContinuesThe Pinball Customer Journey Has Replaced the Marketing Funnel

Julie Jarnagin joins Beth Russell on this special Thanksgiving edition to tackle the challenges marketers face in a world overflowing with information and AI slop.From breaking out of narrow thinking to sparking authentic connections with your audience, they share practical ways to transform your marketing by starting with the underlying thoughts that ultimately shape strategy. Learn how to stand out, ignite that spark, and stay ahead before an avalanche of AI noise drowns out your message.Story TimeBeth - Can a brain scientist teach marketers how to avoid categorical thinking traps?Julie - A school tour sheds light on building a great onsite experienceIn the NewsMeta's AI tools are going rogue and churning out some very strange adsAdobe to buy Semrush for $1.9 billionAs AI slop spreads on social media, brands have lessons to learn

Kevin Oakley, Julie Jarnagin, and Jackie Lipinski discuss why great marketing is less about the message and more about the moment. From anniversaries to fishing lures to funnel metrics, the takeaway is the same: your audience determines your strategy. The right nuance can change everything.Special AnnouncementsMarket Proof Marketing Academy 2026 enrollment is nearly full. With fresh curriculum and expanded expert sessions, grab your spot now.Story TimeJulie - Who cares about 100 years? And how? And why?Jackie - An apparent a-fish-ionado, Jackie shares how her lure strategy relates to changing bait in digital advertising Kevin - Funneling more of nothing (good) still gets you nothingIn the NewsChatGPT Ads Are Coming — and They Won’t Look Like Google AdsThe Starbucks “Bearista” Cup Craze: When Product Drops Become Cultural EventsMeta to launch no-ads subscriptions in the UK

Host Kevin Oakley joins Jackie Lipinski in the studio to discuss technology, change, and the inevitability of pain. Kevin shares cogent examples (like choosing not to participate in a bad economy through a 500% tip) to illuminate counterintuitive mindset moves to keep builders moving forward. From the struggles that shape resilience to the real story of search data for builders, this episode is a reminder that you don’t have to internalize the valley, or the narrative.Story TimeJackie – Pain points and growth spurts look the same in retrospectKevin – If seemingly constant change has you reaching for more control, choose focus over fakesIn the NewsPost to Google Business Profiles: An Untapped Realm in the Building IndustryOctober 2025 Monthly Housing Market TrendsScams at ScaleState of Search Q3 2025

Nick Aufenkamp, founder of DIY Home Buyer Academy, joins Kevin Oakley to explore how transparency, data, and evolving buyer agency are rewriting the rules of real estate. Kevin and Nick share surprising takes on the current and future state of the Zillow + ChatGPT partnership. From start to finish, this episode is brimming with insights on what happens when buyers start leading the process themselves.AI & the Mirror EffectTech is giving us a mirror; turn it into a mapNew tools are revealing what buyers actually trust and whyNick’s own emotional arc with Zillow’s ChatGPT experiment: from frustration to fascinationAgency After the NAR SettlementThe settlement flipped on the lights, yet shadows from the past still lingerWhy buyers now want (and expect) more control in every transactionHow builders can back empowered buyers without burning agent bridgesFollow Nick on LinkedIn and Youtube:https://www.linkedin.com/in/nickaufenkamp/https://www.youtube.com/@DIYHomebuyer

Julie Jarnagin joins Beth Russell and Jackie Lipinski to explore what today’s challenges can teach marketers about grit, growth, and grace. From marketing merit badges to limiting factors, they discuss the perspective and strategy builders need to finish the year strong.Special AnnouncementsMarket Proof Marketing Academy 2026 is open for registration! A high-energy, hands-on virtual event designed to fast-track marketing mastery for homebuilder marketers. Space is limited - save your spot before it’s gone.Story TimeBeth – Redefining wins beyond sales and measuring momentum that moves the business forwardJackie – Three quotes to keep every recovering perfectionist grounded and thrivingJulie – Leadership means being the calm in Q4In the Newshttps://www.doyouconvert.com/blog/the-limiting-factor-to-sales-results/Zillow Pulls Matterport Tours from Listings (Blames CoStar)10 Surprising Takeaways from the Minds of Today’s Homebuyer Google Officially Shuts Down Privacy Sandbox 

On this bonus episode, Qadra Evans, Director of Industry & Partner Engagement at Zillow, joins host Kevin Oakley for a look inside how one of the most-used housing platforms is adjusting to new demands in buyer behavior, builder engagement, and affordability. This conversation breaks down what’s evolving and how builders can interpret the signals.Tools That Reflect the MomentFrom dream browsing to financial fit: affordability filters get realListings trends are shifting from static to cinematic (and the scroll times prove it)Signals from the Buyer SideThe new new construction buyer: Gen Z (and their parents)Which considerations are rising fast in buyer decision-making?

Kevin Oakley joins Julie Jarnagin and Beth Russell for conversations on ChatGPT considerations, Sora’s impact, shutdown shockwaves, and Halloween costumes. Whether you love or hate the rapid pace of change lately, this episode dives into the major shifts shaping the market and more.Special announcementsInterest in the January Market Proof Marketing Academy is at an all-time high, with a record number of people on the list. Tickets go live this week, so make sure to grab your spot before it’s full! You can find out at the link above.Key TopicsOpenAI’s newest feature - Is the “app within the app” ahead of its time or an empty gimmick?A sea of content - Questioning the repercussions of AI’s explosive growth in video content creationFurloaned - How to prepare for the extended consequences of the current government shutdownListen in and send us your thoughts and questions. 

Fresh from the Summit, Kevin Oakley sits down with Rachel Spaugh for Office Hours to debrief on what stood out most. From how AI is reshaping content to how marketers can hand off great ideas to sales without losing trust, this one’s all about clarity, compression, and exerting creative control without chaos.

Host Kevin Oakley joins Julie Jarnagin and Jackie Lipinski to unpack the newest AI experiments, marketing shifts, and growth mindsets shaping 2026 and beyond. From Meta’s surreal new playground to the delicate relationship between builder breakthroughs and removing “limiting factors,” this episode looks at how curiosity and clarity drive progress, even when tech or timelines get in the way. Special AnnouncementsThe next Market Proof Marketing Academy is just around the corner, but the waitlist is already almost full! If you want in on this unique opportunity to learn from DYC’s best and brightest - regardless of whether your builder works with Do You Convert - this is your chance. Seize the moment before the last few spots are gone.Key Topics DiscussedDoes the future belong to fewer, bigger players?Love the growth leaps, but remember to value every stepFever dream frontiers - is Meta wooing creators or consumers?Weighing the privacy costs of the “customized everything” digital dreamIn the NewsCompass to acquire Anywhere, creating world's largest brokerageMeta "Vibes" is released - will anyone care?Advertising in 2030

In this solo episode, Kevin Oakley takes you inside the room at a recent ULI panel. Builders, sales leaders, and consultants gathered to debate the toughest questions facing the industry, and Kevin is pulling back the curtain to share exactly what he was asked and how he answered.Here are the five big questions he tackled:Beyond discounts: what really drives buyer traffic?Online sales: speed or personalization?Resale vs. new: who wins when rates drop?The holy grail: is it possible to achieve volume and margin?2026: what’s ahead for builders?Listen in for unfiltered answers that challenge assumptions, spotlight bold strategies, and point to the realities shaping the immediate future of homebuilding.

Kevin Oakley and Rachel Spaugh are back in the studio for another round of Office Hours. In this episode, their discussion on AI, uncertainty, and messaging uncovers how to approach everything from fear to facts. Together they break down what to do when you need credibility and what's more powerful than certainty in your messaging right now.Tune in to learnHow your leaders think you’re using AI vs how you should be using itWhy objections aren’t the problem you think they areHear Kevin build an end of year campaign theme on the spot

In this episode, host Kevin Oakley is joined by guest Kim Sandoval, Director of Corporate Marketing for Classic Homes. Together they discuss Kim's nonlinear career path in homebuilder marketing, revealing salient reminders not to box in yourself, your career, or your company's growth with narrow thinking. As Kevin and Kim share the gift of retrospect clarity, both of their histories serve as needed reminders that every great success story has periods of expansion and contraction - on multiple levels. Reminder: You + Kim + Chicago = Even More Influential Leadership LessonsListeners attending the 2025 Online Sales and Marketing Summit in Chicago in just two short weeks will have the chance to hear from Kim and other leaders live in Beth Russell's panel session, Everything the Light Touches is Yours: Real World Influence from Marketing Leaders. You won't want to miss this chance to hear Kim and her powerhouse peers dive deeper into real wins and lessons learned.Key TopicsGrowth is Not Linear - How Kim pivoted from agency-side builder experience, to consulting for builders, before finally going all-in on one culture that captured her heartStay the Course - The crucial advice she has for everyone doubting this market right now, pulled straight from her time striking out on her own to serve builders during the 2008 recessionFind Your Fit - Ideas and encouragement on where to find your perfect fit, even if it lands you in an unexpected seat or an entirely different part of the business

In this episode, Julie Jarnagin joins Beth Russell and Jackie Lipinski to discuss diagnosing hidden community issues, aligning the whole team around intent, and how to nail messaging and positioning in a shifting market. From long-form articles around behavior data to hot takes on who actually uses Bing, this one is sure to have you thinking about familiar topics in new ways.

In this episode, Kevin Oakley joins Jackie Lipinski and Beth Russell in the studio to reflect on the fine lines between lying and storytelling in marketing, the attribution lies you must know (so you can avoid them), and how creatives in our industry are inspiring the DYC marketing team.Listen closely - this short episode packs in some big questions and even bigger topics in today's ai-driven digital marketing landscape.Story TimeBeth - finding secondhand joy in watching others do creative workJackie - building your own breadcrumbs if you're doing something BIGKevin - the inherent conflict between truth and storytelling at the heart of being a marketerIn the NewsGEO x local SEO: What it means for the future of discovery

As Jackie and Julie summited the heights of Mt. Rainier with camping gear in tow, marketing inspiration found them where they least expected it. Today, they’re bringing all the fresh insights back to the MPM studio to share with listeners so you can get ahead of your own end-of-year mountains to move.

In this milestone 400th episode of Market Proof Marketing, Kevin Oakley, Julie Jarnagin, and Beth Russell share some provocative takes on what happens when marketing and sales stop collaborating and start competing for credit. When marketing and sales become a marriage on the rocks, someone has to take the first step toward resolution. Learn what every great therapist knows not to do when this happens.

In this episode, Rachel returns for another round of Office Hours with Kevin. Together, they unpack one of the most misunderstood, overindexed, and emotionally charged concepts in homebuilder marketing: attribution. Rachel, still relatively new to the industry, brings the curiosity of someone learning in real time, asking the foundational questions many marketers may feel too embarrassed to raise around attribution. Kevin breaks it all down with signature clarity, diving deep into the messy intersection of intent, data privacy, ad platform incentives, and why marketers should stop trying to prove value with “magic wand” numbers.

Julie Jarnagin joins Beth Russell and Jackie Lipinski to talk through burnout, delegation, and the invisible work that keeps marketers stuck. This episode isn’t about perfection; it’s about momentum. And it’s a lifeline for anyone trying to hold it all together with too little time and too few resources.Summit Special AnnouncementSummit 2025 is almost here, with over 100 builders already sending attendees, many bringing their entire online sales or marketing teams. Registration closes soon, and the best hotel rooms are going fast.Story TimeBeth – Why one marketer’s 10‑hour flyer problem is more common than you think—and how a new rubric helps teams reset without shame.Jackie – Everyone’s in sales now. A builder’s moment of clarity becomes a team‑wide shift in accountability.Julie – The Buc‑ee’s effect. What a Texas gas station taught Julie about brand, consistency, and operational brilliance.In the NewsSmall Team, Big Impact: A Solo Marketer's Guide to Maximizing OutcomesAI‑Generated Content Doesn’t Hurt Google RankingsInstagram Content Will Now Be Searchable on Google

Brian Boero, co-founder and CEO of 1000Watt, joins Kevin Oakley for a punchy, high-frequency conversation on how home builders can (and should) learn from the broader real estate world. With decades of insight from both agents and consumers, Brian brings a unique lens to current challenges, and opportunities, for builders navigating 2025’s volatile market.This episode previews Brian’s upcoming talk at the Online Sales & Marketing Summit, pulling from his research, fieldwork, and no-BS branding instincts to spark fresh perspective on how to break from the herd, build trust with brokers, and tap into what today’s buyers actually want.Break the Pattern Before It Breaks YouBuilders that mimic competitors become the slowest zebraA standout product means nothing if no one can tell it’s differentBuyers Want Freedom, Agents Want HelpGen Z wants a home they can paint and own, not just a good dealAgents are tired, anxious, and open to new kinds of partnershipsListen now to get Brian’s take on off-MLS strategy, how to craft ads that actually move people, and why “get off my lawn” might be the most powerful copy you write this year.

Kevin Oakley and Jackie Lipinski break down what sets successful builders apart in a shaky market (and why AI won’t save you if your strategy’s unclear). From underutilized CRM systems to the danger of deceptive ad automation, this one’s packed with hard truths and practical insight.Special AnnouncementsSummit is selling out at a rate of 3-4 tickets purchased per day. Don't miss out - save your spot today!Market Proof Marketing Academy for Spring 2025 is a wrap! But the waitlist for next time is officially live; save your spot and be the first to hear when fall dates are announced.Story TimeJackie – Spending $4K/mo on CRM with no OSC? Let’s talkKevin – Some advice is expensive (not in a good way)In the NewsHuman vs. Machine: Who Should Be Steering Your Paid Ad Campaigns?How Outlier Home Builders Build an Edge, Even in a Slow MarketGoogle Promotes AI Mode on Homepage DoodleEven in a flat-lead environment, builders are hitting goals; not with silver bullets but with smart, grounded execution. Clarity outperforms complexity, every time.

In this debut installment of Office Hours with Kevin, Rachel Spaugh (DYC’s Marketing & Events Manager) sits down with Kevin Oakley for a grounded-yet-ambitious conversation about what it really takes to grow as a marketer. Drawing from decades of experience, Kevin breaks down the invisible steps between just starting out and true, practiced expertise.This episode unpacks the journey through technical skill-building, data fluency, strategic thinking, and leadership, all with a lens toward avoiding the shortcuts that sabotage long-term success. If you're serious about your craft, this one will feel like a reset button.In This EpisodeThe four stages of development, from “you don’t know what you don’t know” to conscious competence, including:Why fast-tracking your career might land you face-to-face with Lucifer himselfTactical ways to stand out and get ahead (hint: daily habits matter)Signs you've mastered your craft without realizing itWhen to shut up, when to risk it, and when to stop acting your age and get curious againThe doors are open. The questions cut deep. The answers? Not for the half-hearted. If you’re in the thick of a marketing career at any stage, this episode will leave you smarter, clearer, and maybe even a little more fired up to level up.Listen now. Bring your questions next time: Office Hours exists to bring you a front-row seat into deeper conversations between a fresh pair of marketing eyes in the homebuilder industry and a seasoned pro serving up career-changing perspectives and playbooks.

No guests. No segments. Just Kevin, a porch mic, and four surf-side stories from Hilton Head to help you reset your marketing instincts.He covers:What happens when you fight the tide (and lose)Why your best data might be lying to youHow to spot a shark before the lifeguard doesThe missed wave sitting in your CRMThis isn’t a how-to. It’s a how-it-feels. And sometimes that’s the episode you need.Tune in. The ocean doesn’t wait.

Julie Jarnagin joins Beth Russell and Jackie Lipinski to tease out the topic of how to play by the rules and win. Is your team sliding into a panic-fueled (rule)bender? DYC has got you! Julie, Jackie and Beth talk mid-year pivots, market psychology, and incentives missteps, all to help you know when to break the rules vs. when to follow them. Tackling everything from Michelin guides to Groupon flops, this episode is your unofficial halftime huddle.Note: The team experienced technical difficulties throughout this episode; please excuse any audio issues as we work through new processes and platforms. Special Announcements:Summit speakers are live on the site! Visit www.onlinesalessummit.com to read about our featured keynote speakers.Story Time [03:42]Rule #1: Follow the RulesMidsummer panic? Stop bending the rules and get back on track.Dust off those goals and remember with presale, process is progress.Rule #2: Know When to Break Rule #1Find your Michelin strategy… no sabotage requiredWhen conventional wisdom and today’s trends are wrong for youIn the News [19:38]Redfin: U.S. Home Prices Hit an All-time HighMeta Advises Page Managers to Post Links in CommentsListen now and rethink what’s urgent, what’s lasting, and what your audience really needs.

In this episode, Kevin Oakley is joined by Jackie Lipinski and Beth Russell for a discussion that speaks directly to the mental load marketers are carrying right now. They unpack what it means to feel like a firefighter, why leadership fatigue is a very real thing, and how the industry's obsession with quick fixes like AI-generated ads might be missing the point. From shifting ad expectations to reclaiming clarity in your work, this one’s packed with insight.Listen in for a refreshing dose of validation, perspective, and tactical advice.Story Time [00:38]Jackie – Feeling like firefightersBeth – Is it burnout or something else?Kevin – why it’s a win to find a lead-quality lie in the dataIn the News [16:40]Google Promoted Pins Come to Maps for Demand Gen CampaignsMeta Aims to Fully Automate Ad Creation Using AI If your brain feels overloaded or you’re tempted to chase the newest AI shortcut, this episode reminds you where the real value lies: in clarity, strategy, and staying human.

Kevin Oakley is joined by Chris Mumford, CMO of CoStar Group Marketplaces, and Marc Regardie, Senior Director of New Construction at Homes.com. They pull back the curtain on why they want to become the most influential platform for new construction listings, how homes.com is different, and what it takes to disrupt a deeply entrenched real estate category.From Chris’s experience leading one of the largest media campaigns in real estate history to the quiet power of aligning incentives between builders and consumers, this episode is full of big bets anyone paying attention to the homebuilding industry will want to hear.Built Differently on PurposeA new take on how leads workMarc talks about how and why homes.com is “fixing what’s missing.”The Long Game Starts HereChris' winning plays from the days of insurance warsBuilding a brand people actually likeWhat Builders Should KnowNo paywall, no catchMatterports: now table stakesWhether you're skeptical of another portal or curious about where this one’s headed, this episode offers an insider look at a platform that aims to reshape how new homes are found and sold.Tune in, share it with your team, and keep an eye on what launches this summer.