Real Estate Thought Leaders

If you’ve followed the launch of Natalie’s new show, Leadership That Shines, you might not know that the brand (and company behind it) was created 10 years ago.During that time, here are just a few career highlights…* Speaker, facilitator and coach* Director of Community Growth at KW* President of the Colorado Association of REALTORS® (2023)* RISMedia Real Estate Newsmakers and SP 200 Watchlist (2023)But Natalie could feel that something was missing. And a question came up…Am I building something that will actually be relevant in 10 years?A very powerful question, but that’s just scratching the surface, let’s dive into the…Non-Obvious Insights from our Conversation:Choosing a Niche Feels….Dangerous“As you’re identifying your niche, it’s also important to not turn it into a weapon against yourself. So weaponizing your niche against yourself, which is something that I did. When you find that niche and then you feel like you’re pigeonholed…and that’s not the case…” - Natalie DavisThat quote unlocked something I hadn’t been able to articulate in 10 years of working with coaches, speakers and authors.Why does choosing a niche feel like a prison sentence? A cage you can never break out from?Because that choice triggers our nervous system. We know we’re going to weaponize our niche against ourselves.Deep down we believe that once we choose a niche, we’re stuck.It’s going to feel restrictive at some point. Anything we try outside that niche puts our reputation at risk. If that niche doesn’t work, it’s not a test or an experiment…it’s a failure. With all the guilt and shame that comes with that label.So our nervous system protects us from future guilt and shame….by avoiding the choice entirely.Better to stay in the safety of generality.But as Natalie points out…You Are Never Limited to One Niche“Just become the expert within that space and then look for the opportunities that open up as a result. Not letting the discovery of your niche feel like a pigeonhole because it’s not. There are more opportunities out there…but just get really good at something first.”Let’s say you become a ‘household name’ in one niche…One kind of agent loves you and everything you put out…That doesn’t mean you’re invisible to all other agents.Agents talk to each other. So do event organizers and show hosts. Breaking out of a niche happens organically, which is how it happened to Natalie…“Almost two years ago, I started to see an increase in a need and the requests that I would actually receive from clients about challenges that they were seeing within their leaders. Up and coming leaders…losing potential leaders within the organization… And so realizing that I had a solution to the pain points…but I was just sitting on them and not really sharing them. That’s the thing that keeps you up at night…”Want to launch a video show or podcast? Check out our Done-for-You Production & Strategy service.We turn raw footage into professional YouTube videos, podcasts and email newsletters. All with zero overwhelm, guaranteed.From Michael Maher and Lars Hedenborg to Jeff Cohn and Marki Lemons Ryhal, we’ve been the content team behind many of your fellow real estate coaches, speakers and authors. Click here to learn more.Create Content for Your Next step…Not Your Past“I’m definitely in a space where I’m creating for the next step I’m taking…not for where I am today or where I’ve been the last decade. It’s making sure I’m building something that will actually be relevant in 10 years, right? That’s the biggest thing…Can I continue to do this for the next 10 years ahead?”A great niche hits a sweet spot. Big enough to be profitable…small enough that you instantly stand out. And ideally, a niche you can serve happily for 10 years.One of my favorite mentors spent almost a decade coaching business owners in a bunch of industries. Then he stumbled onto executive recruiting, and fell in love with the industry. He customized his coaching and his content to attract them.He happily spent the next 3 decades of his career serving them. He became the default coach for the biggest recruiting network in the world. At one point he coached the #1 and #2 firm owners in the network …at the same time. Yet other types of coaching clients came in organically. He happily chose a niche, made no efforts to break out, and even he couldn’t contain the referrals and word-of-mouth.Choosing a niche isn’t about restricting yourself.It’s about making a few things crystal clear to the market…* who you serve and why* how you can help them* who you don’t serveThe market is noisy. The more specialized you can be, the more specific you can be in your content. And the more easily you can cut through the noise.Want to go deeper? Click on the audio file for the full chat, or search Real Estate Thought Leaders on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.Natalie also shared…* How being a deliberate late adopter isn’t a liability…it’s a positioning strategy that’s kept her from building a career on someone else’s trend* How she measures impact and success…in a way that’s far more sustainable than chasing millions of views* What an audience remembers…and it’s not your signature framework* How publicly admitting what you won’t teach creates a credibility signal most speakers avoidOr Hit Reply and tell me what you’re seeing, who’s putting out great content for agents? Who is dominating an interesting niche in real estate?Steal This:Natalie is testing both Substack and a LinkedIn newsletter. Early results show more feedback and engagement on LinkedIn.And that’s with real estate agents not being known as super active on LinkedIn.The simplest subscriber growth tactic Natalie found wasn’t a funnel or a paid ad…it was sharing her LinkedIn newsletter on Facebook.Quick Links & ResourcesLeadershipThatShines.com - Learn about Natalie’s story, speaking, coaching, etc.Leadership That Shines - Apple PodcastsReignite Resilience - Apple PodcastsConnect with Natalie on LinkedIn and InstagramThanks so much to Natalie for a fun, fast-paced conversation! I really enjoyed the energy and enthusiasm, and we covered a LOT in such a short time. If you’re running a podcast or video show and need a guest, I’m happy to make an introduction!Talk soon,-MattAgency Founder & Author of MicroFamousPS When you’re ready to launch your own show, here’s how we can help…Done-for-You Production & Strategy - We turn raw footage into professional YouTube videos, podcasts and email newsletters. All with zero overwhelm, guaranteed.From Michael Maher and Lars Hedenborg to Jeff Cohn and Marki Lemons Ryhal, we’ve been the content team behind many of your fellow real estate coaches, speakers and authors.We start every client engagement by developing your ‘Signature Talk’ - So you have a message you’re excited to take to stages, guest interviews and all your content.Then we launch your flagship video show - supported by audio podcast and email newsletter, delivered with pro-quality and relentless consistency. We promote with short video clips and social posts on any platform where you’re active.Each month we give you research-based video title and topic ideas, scripts, outlines, even slides. Plus all the support you need to stay consistent, from email updates to strategy calls.So if you’re not putting out the quality of content…consistently…to become the thought leader you’re meant to be, let’s talk. Click here to learn more and schedule a Free Brainstorm Call. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit rethoughtleaders.substack.com

Some of the biggest opportunities come from doing the opposite of everyone else in the industry.In the world of real estate speakers, especially in the association space, Matthew Rathbun is a great example.He stopped doing free gigs for exposure, stopped doing cold outreach to associations and event organizers, and went ‘all in’ on creating content for agents first.Here are the results:* Thriving YouTube channel with 5k subs* Runs roughly 3-4 webinars and 4 in-person sessions per month* Booked nearly a year in advance(He’s also speaking at the BEATS conference, April 19-22nd in OKC, which I’m attending).That’s on top of his ‘day job’ as Executive VP of a multi-office brokerage with 200+ agents. He’s been named Instructor of the Year at multiple levels, and also consulted for associations and franchises on speaker selection and previously served as an education director.Which means he has direct experience on both sides of the booking process.So here are the…Non-Obvious Insights from our Conversation:Event Organizers Want to See the ‘Real’ You“Before I would ever recommend a speaker, I go look at their YouTube channel. If they don’t have one, it’s almost a ‘Eh, maybe not this person.’ I’ll go to Instagram. I want to see video of them sharing the real version of them, not the stage version that we all have.” - Matthew RathbunI’m betting as event organizers and education directors get younger, that shift becomes the default.Long-form YouTube videos show your real personality…FAR more than a tightly edited speaker reel. So while capturing footage of you speaking on stage is important, for many event organizers, it’s no longer the first thing they check.They also want to know if you can potentially help ‘put butts in seats.’ If you have a brand, a niche topic, an audience…you become part of the value proposition of the event. A reason for agents to register.Does that mean you need a household name and millions of views? No. MicroFamous, from my book to my Done-for-You service, is based on the idea that…It’s better to dominate a niche than be the 17th runner up in a bigger space.Multiple speakers I’ve talked to have said the same thing. It’s way easier to get booked when you specialize in a niche topic.Content Creates Attraction. Cold Outreach Rarely Does.On connecting with event organizers, Matthew says,“If it’s somebody who’s not paying attention to my type of content online already, introducing them as a cold call isn’t going to get the energy I need.”Matthew is playing the attraction game. His YouTube channel, podcast and newsletter work together to create a warm audience. Agents already understand what he’s about, so there’s already a connection when he walks onstage.Event organizers come to him, which puts him in a very different (and powerful) position.“I posted a video basically saying, “Hey MLS’s, the reason we’re having these aggregator wars is because the MLS hasn’t innovated…Sure enough, an association director said, ‘Can we reshare this?’ I’m like, Hell yeah!”When decision makers share your content organically, you attract speaking opportunities without direct outreach.Ready to launch your own show, build real influence and dominate your niche? Check out our Done-for-You Content Production & Strategy We turn raw footage into professional YouTube videos, podcasts and email newsletters. All with zero overwhelm, guaranteed.From Michael Maher and Lars Hedenborg to Jeff Cohn and Marki Lemons Ryhal, we’ve been the content team behind many of your fellow real estate coaches, speakers and authors. Click here to learn more at GetMicroFamous.com.Many Speakers Have a Massive Blindspot…the ‘Connective Tissue’ Around Their Key Topic“If you’re speaking about AI, that’s great. But if you don’t understand basic marketing concepts and basic business planning principles, the AI is just a fun toy you can play [with]. So it doesn’t make it more meaningful.”Matthew shared an eye-popping story from a recent event. The speaker, who specialized in AI, got an audience question about fair housing and using AI to write ads.The speaker’s response? ‘Don’t worry, the AI won’t let you create anything dangerous.’Matthew knew from experience that was incorrect. AI doesn’t have reliable guardrails like that yet.When Matthew vets speakers, he vets them not just for expertise in their primary topic, but for whether they understand what their topic connects to. An AI speaker who doesn’t know fair housing is a liability.Want to go deeper? Click on the audio file for the full chat, or search Real Estate Thought Leaders on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.Steal This:Matthew gave a killer tip. When you get booked, say, ‘Hey, I’m going to build an extra class in here. The fee stays the same, but you’re going to have another instructor in case someone cancels.’ Schedule conflicts or last-minute issues with speakers can put event organizers in a jam. That extra ‘backup’ class positions you to be the hero. Quick Links & ResourcesMatthew’s websiteMatthew on InstagramMatthew’s YouTube channelMatthew’s podcast Meet the Moment (Co-hosted with Kimberly Allard)The conversation was a blast, turns out we both have homeschooling in common…always fun to stumble across random commonalities like that! Matthew was a fantastic interview guest so if you’d like to feature him and want a direct intro, hit Reply and I’m happy to make the connection!-MattAgency Founder & Author of MicroFamousPS Here’s how we can help…Done-for-You Content Production & Strategy - We turn raw footage into professional YouTube videos, podcasts and email newsletters. All with zero overwhelm, guaranteed.From Michael Maher and Lars Hedenborg to Jeff Cohn and Marki Lemons Ryhal, we’ve been the content team behind many of your fellow real estate coaches, speakers and authors.We start every client engagement by developing your ‘Signature Talk’ - So you have a message you’re excited to take to stages, guest interviews and all your content.Then we launch your flagship video show - supported by audio podcast and email newsletter, delivered with pro-level quality and relentless consistency. We promote with short video clips and social posts on any platform where you’re active.Each month we give you research-based video title and topic ideas, scripts, outlines, even slides. Plus all the support you need to stay consistent, from email updates to strategy calls.So if you’re not putting out the quality of content…consistently…to become the thought leader you’re meant to be, let’s talk. Click here to learn more and schedule a Free Brainstorm Call. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit rethoughtleaders.substack.com

When someone wants to refer you…What will they say about you?Not in general…the exact words?We’ve been conditioned to think that content has one path…* We create content* Audience consumes content* People in the audience buyBut that ignores the network effects. The massive potential of word-of-mouth.Especially because word-of-mouth can be engineered.Sean Carpenter figured that out a long time ago. Which has served him well as he’s built a wildly successful career in speaking, training and a variety of leadership roles.Sidenote - Sean is speaking at the BEATS Conference (where I’m attending, April 19-22nd). The event puts educators and trainers together with association staff and event organizers. If you’re looking for more speaking opportunities, I can’t imagine a better event to attend.Sean is known for his mantra, Build Relationships, Solve Problems & Have Fun.And he doubles down, intentionally raising his game in each area, giving agents and event organizers ‘something to talk about.’ So let’s dive into…Sean Carpenter’s Blueprint to Engineering Word-of-Mouth* Create Content to Get OTHERS to Tell Your Story For You“If you have a good story to tell and other people tell it for you, you don’t have to spend your time, effort, money, telling your story. You can take care of the people who tell your story for you and get them to tell it more.” - Sean CarpenterSean puts this action in several ways. Weekly blog posts (1350+), actively looking for ways to create more memorable content, and customizing classes and live talks regularly to solve evolving problems.“Some of the best advice I got early in my career was …for every class, you need two titles.”Here are a couple examples:* Prospect and Network Daily to Build Relationships“I work my CRM every day…I have a whole section there for speaker clients. And then just literally looking at it from top to bottom and then flipping it upside down and saying, ‘This is the person I’ve talked to the longest ago. Last time.. was an email. So maybe I want to hand out a note, or call them, or drop into their social…hitting them through different channels.”* Create Experiences Worth Talking About“A client of mine in Northwest Arkansas…said, ‘We want you to come back.’ And I said, ‘I’d love to do it…IF you give me two conditions. One, I want to do it in a unique environment. And two… let me do a class I’ve never done before.’ And we did it at the county quail barn….amazing location. I wore camouflage when I spoke.“Sean built a new class that tied in with a hit Luke Bryan song, showing agents how outdoor activities tied into their real estate careers.* Be Easy to Work With“Being easy to work with is a big piece of why people would hire you. Are you going to respond to their messages? Are you going to get the stuff they need on time? Outlines, videos to their audience. Are you going to show up early?”* Develop the Skill of ‘Accordion-ing’ PresentationsSean knows exactly how to cut presentations down if the prior speaker ran long, or expand his presentations to fill time when needed.Being easy to work with is part of Sean’s story, and techniques like this help him deliver on that story. Not just by being nice or timely, but by being prepared enough to bail the event organizer out of a jam.Steal This:Craft the words you want people to use to refer you…in advance.When you can get your ‘story’ down to 1-2 sentences…a story that’s clear and compelling to the right people…here’s what happens…* People have an easy, memorable way to talk about you…so referrals come easier* Current and past clients get positive feedback when they talk about you…so they feel great about their decision to work with you* Word-of-mouth spreads in unpredictable ways…so opportunities come to you ‘out of the blue’Then you can take a powerful step…The key to engineering word of mouth….Design everything in the business to deliver on that story.Want to go deeper? Click on the audio file for the full chat, or search Real Estate Thought Leaders on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.Or Hit Reply and tell me what you’re seeing…Who else is doing a great job creating word-of-mouth?Quick Links & ResourcesCarp’s Corner - Sean’s primary website and home of his Carp’ Corner blogSean’s About page - More background on Sean and ways to connectMassive thanks to Sean for making time on his (very) busy schedule! The conversation was a blast, which should be no surprise to anyone who knows him. Keep Sean in mind as a guest for shows, podcasts, YouTube channels, and of course, speaking opportunities. He really does deliver on his story!-MattAgency Founder & Author of MicroFamousPS I designed every aspect of my agency to deliver a certain impression on clients. So we get referrals like this…“Matt and his team made me MICROFAMOUS in my niche! And they make the process so easy, I basically just show up on video and talk!”If that experience catches your attention, check out our…Done-for-You Content Production & StrategyFrom Michael Maher and Lars Hedenborg to Jeff Cohn and Marki Lemons Ryhal, we’ve been the content team behind many of your fellow real estate coaches, speakers and authors.We turn raw footage into a flagship video show, podcast, email newsletter, short form video and social content. All with zero overwhelm…Guaranteed. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit rethoughtleaders.substack.com

Dave and I connected because ChatGPT recommended my agency.Does that mean I’m throwing time and resources into AI search optimization?Absolutely not. As Dan Kennedy says, the greatest opportunities are in circumventing search. Getting in front of people who aren’t even searching yet.But I had such a great chat with Dave that I invited him to share his experience here.While building a successful team in Savannah, GA, Dave built a reputation for helping agents hit six-figure incomes, even in year one.Now, for the first time, he’s beginning to work with coaching clients outside his team.Along the way, he’s also had firsthand experience working with several real estate coaches himself. Giving him some non-obvious insights about what agents are really looking for in coaching today…Great Coaching is Teaching Ruthless Focus“I’ve never done everything my boss asked of me. I do the most important thing that I’m going to get promoted for… if you’re doing important stuff and doing it very well, they forget about all the fluff that they were going to have you do.” - David SabaDave got a real world lesson in the 80/20 Principle…in an unusual setting.Landing cargo planes on aircraft carriers in the Navy.He learned that in any role, a few things are so vitally important…that if you get those right…everything else becomes secondary.So when hiring his own coach early on, Dave wasn’t drawn to coaches stressing activity over strategy. It didn’t match what he’d experienced in the military, where your performance had life and death consequences.Agents are Looking for Strategy, Not Just Activity“There’s a real trust problem in the coaching industry for real estate right now...I tried half a dozen coaches…Most of them just wanted to hold me accountable for…how many calls made this week …divide them up 30 different ways….do all these big spreadsheet reports…”When Dave began working with coaches early in his real estate career, he went looking for strategy. Real insight into the most effective and efficient methods to build his real estate business.Dave knew that all leads are not created equal.So instead of simply increasing activity, he became interested in strategies to:• Identify higher-value opportunities• Generate better conversations• Follow up more effectivelyHe took the same mentality that drove his success in the military and the corporate world, and applied it to his real estate business. The result is a successful team and a track record of agents hitting six-figure incomes.Want to launch your own flagship video show, with zero hassle? Click here to learn about our Done-for-You Production & Strategy Service.From Michael Maher and Lars Hedenborg to Jeff Cohn and Marki Lemons Ryhal, we’ve been the content team behind many of your fellow real estate coaches, speakers and authors. We turn conversations and raw footage into polished YouTube videos, podcasts, email newsletters, short videos and social posts. All with zero overwhelm, guaranteed.My Perspective: The Coaches Winning Right Now Are Creating THIS Kind of ContentComing into real estate in the mid-2000s, I was looking for strategy, too.In a pre-YouTube era, I got lucky and stumbled on a variant of Craig Proctor’s materials. That goes back to Dan Kennedy and direct response marketing, which is still having a huge impact on my life today.From conversations with guests like John Schuchman, Dale Archdekin and Jess Lenouvel, I’d bet that the majority of agents coming into the business are looking for strategic insight over activity.Especially strategies that are:* tech-savvy* low-cost* high impact* highly efficientAnd they just might ‘coach-shop’ til they get it.When I look at coaches who are winning today, they create content that promises strategic insight…and then delivers. And you need both.Promising strategic insight helps your content stand out.Delivering strategic insight builds trust.Every strategic insight creates little moments where agents say to themselves: “Oh wow, I could see that working for ME!”Every one of those moments creates trust.The more of those moments you create, the more agents will pre-determine that you’re the right coach for them.Ask This:Where can you share more strategic insight in your content?Where can you intentionally create more ‘I Can See This Working for ME!’ moments?Want to go deeper? Click on the audio file for the full chat, or search Real Estate Thought Leaders on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.Or Hit Reply and tell me what you’re seeingQuick Links & ResourcesDave’s coaching websiteConnect with Dave on LinkedInDave’s real estate team websiteMassive thanks to Dave for sharing! Make sure to connect with him, especially if you want a podcast guest. Dave can go deep on high-impact, low-cost strategies, like how he ditched traditional farming and used community events to dominate specific neighborhoods. Always happy to make a personal intro!Talk soon,-MattAgency Founder & Author of MicroFamousPS Here’s how we can help…Done-for-You Content Production & Strategy - We turn raw footage into professional YouTube videos, podcasts and email newsletters. All with zero overwhelm, guaranteed.From Michael Maher and Lars Hedenborg to Jeff Cohn and Marki Lemons Ryhal, we’ve been the content team behind many of your fellow real estate coaches, speakers and authors.We start every client engagement by developing your ‘Signature Talk’ - So you have a message you’re excited to take to stages, guest interviews and all your content.Then we launch your flagship video show - supported by audio podcast and email newsletter, delivered with pro-quality and relentless consistency. We promote with short video clips and social posts on any platform where you’re active.Each month we give you research-based video title and topic ideas, scripts, outlines, even slides. Plus all the support you need to stay consistent, from email updates to strategy calls.So if you’re not putting out the quality of content…consistently…to become the thought leader you’re meant to be, let’s talk. Click here to learn more and schedule a Free Brainstorm Call. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit rethoughtleaders.substack.com

Professional speaking is a grind. Either you love it or you don’t. If you’ve done more than a couple events in a month, you’ll know what I mean.So it makes sense that most of my friends and clients want to speak 5-10 times a year, at the right events. Maybe a bit more.Enough to boost your business and enjoy yourself. Not so much that you’re on first name basis with the Delta luggage-check attendant.So I reached out to Brandon Doyle again, because he’s worn all the different hats…Speaker, author, trainer, consultant, association leader at multiple levels…And we tied a couple things together.Don’t chase more speaking gigs.Chase more of the right speaking gigs + better retention on a recurring membership.Retention is the difference between:* Membership that compounds over time - Compounding your income and forming a strong foundation for a thought leadership business.* Membership that loses members as fast as they come in - Resulting in a time-sink that never hits the membership numbers to be profitable and sustainable.So let’s get to Brandon’s insights…Relationships = RetentionIf you want to get in front of associations, for example, don’t just download an email list and start sending cold emails…“If you have a relationship with someone at that state, that’s going to help a lot. So [maybe] you have friends in the area… ask them, ‘Do you know people on the committee? Can you introduce me to a staff member there?’Staff members are just [getting] spam emails from everyone [who are] literally just going right down a list. And so having that warm introduction is going to move the needle much further.” - Brandon DoyleAnd Brandon takes it a step further, actively building relationships with speakers who come through his area.“If you know a good speaker is coming to town, oftentimes they’re just lonely and sitting in their hotel room. So if you messaged them and you’d say, ‘Hey! I understand you’re going to be speaking tomorrow. I don’t know what time your flight gets in, but if you need a ride or a dinner recommendation or heck, if you even want to grab dinner, I’d love to get some time with you.’I found that works really well. The speaking world is much less glamorous than most people think… It’s a nice change up when someone offers to take you somewhere that’s local, a nice experience and good one-on-one time.”Look at attracting more speaking gigs as a game of retention.Pro speakers know…Many speaking opportunities come from referrals from other speakers. And repeat opportunities come from good relationships with event organizers.It’s always easier to keep a good relationship than build a new one from scratch.Ready to launch your flagship show & become famously influential? Check out our Done-for-You Content Production & Strategy service. We turn raw footage into professional YouTube videos, podcasts, email newsletters and social content. All with zero overwhelm, guaranteed.Now here are the two best tactics Brandon has found for boosting agent retention:Market Your Membership… to Your Current Members“If you can get them to stay for 6 months, you did a great job of convincing them that this is a good tool or this is going to be a benefit to them. And so you had a really good upfront sale.The problem is that after the fact the [agent] just never logged in. They think that it’s easy. They just should just get [results] without actually putting in the effort.And so, you have to really stay in front of [agents] and you’re constantly reselling them, essentially, that this is something [they] need to use.”In a world where online courses have a completion rate of 12-15%...(per Harvard Business Review and other sources)and some studies claim that around 50% never even log in…getting members to stay for 6 months is great. Boosting that to 9-12 months might be the key to a membership that grows and becomes the new foundation of your income.It’s worth setting up systems to add new content and resources, promote that new content to members, offer virtual events, special workshops, ‘office hours’ and other ways to offer members exclusive access to you.Build a Member Community…with Real Engagement“And then having an ongoing thing there, anyone that has a nice community where the members are the ones…pushing others for engagement. I think that’s going to be the best route.”It takes skill to create a community-space that’s inviting, attractive, and engaging.It takes genuine curiosity about members’ opinions, feelings and experiences. And the willingness to NOT be the center of attention in your own community.When you have a real community component to your membership, it gives you tons of material to market to your members:* Sharing member success stories* Highlighting active conversations* Promoting emerging leaders in the communityFor more on community, check out Tristan Ahumada’s episode.Want to go deeper? Click on the audio file for the full chat, or search Real Estate Thought Leaders on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.Or Hit Reply and tell me what you’ve seen memberships do well to boost retention.Ask This:What are you doing to retain the key relationships in your network?People who could refer you speaking gigs, people in your membership, past coaching clients, etc.Do you have any systems in place to make sure the right people hear from you, in a real and genuine way?Quick Links & ResourcesBrandon’s websiteBrandon’s booksBrandon’s YouTube channel - for smart home tech and home toursConnect with Brandon on Facebook and InstagramMassive thanks to Brandon for coming back and digging in deeper. Connect with Brandon on social, and keep him in mind for speaking gigs or consulting for tech companies. If I can make a personal intro, just hit Reply and ask!-MattAgency Founder & Author of MicroFamousPS Here’s how we can help…Done-for-You Content Production & Strategy - We turn raw footage into professional YouTube videos, podcasts and email newsletters. All with zero overwhelm, guaranteed.From Michael Maher and Lars Hedenborg to Jeff Cohn and Marki Lemons Ryhal, we’ve been the content team behind many of your fellow real estate coaches, speakers and authors.We start every client engagement by developing your ‘Signature Talk’ - So you have a message you’re excited to take to stages, guest interviews and all your content.Then we launch your flagship video show - supported by audio podcast and email newsletter, delivered with pro-quality and relentless consistency. We promote with short video clips and social posts on any platform where you’re active.Each month we give you research-based video title and topic ideas, scripts, outlines, even slides. Plus all the support you need to stay consistent, from email updates to strategy calls.So if you’re not putting out the quality of content…consistently…to become the thought leader you’re meant to be, let’s talk. Click here to learn more and schedule a Free Brainstorm Call. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit rethoughtleaders.substack.com

Rod Santomassimo has built the #1 coaching firm in commercial real estate.400 active clients. 40 staff coaches.High dollar live, in-person events that get 30% of the room signing up for coaching.Generating millions in coaching contracts.So Rod thinks, Why not go big and global with a virtual event?This is the story of the virtual event that made 6 figures…but triggered that “never again” response…and the strategies he’s returned to.Non-Obvious Insights from our Conversation:Conversion Rate is Everything“So I said, we can actually go bigger. Rent the Vegas studio Tony Robbins rents, invest $200,000, spend six months of my life, make it global, translate in every language, have eight speakers for one day, all sitting in front of a screen.It didn’t suck, it was a nice event. But it wasn’t anything near the experience of sitting there live…like a prospect sitting next to one of my clients, [with] a client saying, ‘You gotta do this!’So the translation to conversion was so much less. And the effort was so much more.” - Rod SantomassimoWhen you host or speak at in-person events, you have two factors in your favor:* Group dynamics - If you can get the audience emotionally moving in one direction, you can turn “mob mentality” into sales* Social proof - When the audience is full of coaching clients sitting next to prospects, that’s unbeatable social proofBut those dynamics aren’t the same on virtual events, and that difference goes directly to the bottom line.To Make Virtual Events Work, Cut the Complexity“Did we make money [on the virtual event]? Yes. Between the gate and the conversion [to new coaching contracts], we probably made $300k. And I spent six months of my life doing this. My hourly rate is a lot higher than that. So it just wasn’t worth it to me.”It’s the complexity that killed it. The venue, the language translation, the sheer scale.Taking Rod out of activities that would have been far more profitable.So that’s what he’s going back to.Physical in-person events, first.That’s been his most effective and most consistent form of sales and marketing.He’s also thinking about a series of scaled-down virtual events.“We might do another live virtual event, but nothing near the scale. And I could do it from a studio up the street for $10k versus $200k.”Done-for-You Content Production & Strategy - We turn raw footage into professional YouTube videos, podcasts and email newsletters. All with zero overwhelm, guaranteed. Click here to learn more and schedule a Free Brainstorm Call.Steal This:Rather than just trying to get on other’s stages, podcasts or shows…think about what kind of virtual event you could offer. Don’t go huge. Think hyper-targeted.How can you solve ONE problem for a small group of prospects.While you’re at it, think about who would be a natural co-host and co-sponsor of that event.Someone with an audience or email list of potential prospects. A strategic partnership might unlock a whole new avenue of growth.Quick Links & ResourcesMassimo Group websiteRod’s storyRod’s booksThe Massimo Show on Apple PodcastsResidential and commercial sides don’t talk to each other much, even in the coaching space. I’m so glad Rod’s team reached out because the conversation was a blast. Rod’s energy and enthusiasm jumped off the screen, and he was absolutely open and transparent. Reach out and connect with him, and if you need a great podcast guest, let me know. Happy to make an introduction!-MattAgency Founder & Author of MicroFamousWant to go deeper? Check out the bonus insights below, or if you prefer to listen to the full conversation, click on the audio file for the full chat, or search Real Estate Thought Leaders on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.Bonus Insight: You Only Need ONE Book to Hit“So [the approach of ]that first book was ‘Go out and just interview.’ This is the easiest way to write a book. Go out and interview the top producers, tell their stories, and thread in your theme through the fabric of the book.That book became a bestseller for the commercial brokerage space. Within three years, I was the #1 coach everyone knew about because of the book.”I’m also a big fan of interview-based books because they’re a perfect companion to hosting a show, YouTube channel or podcast. The show and book run in parallel, complimenting and reinforcing each other. Thanks to AI tools, if you’re already running a show, turning that content into a book is easier than ever (when AI tools are used very diligently and carefully).Bonus Insight: Higher Fees→Better Results“[The book] gave me a level of authority, and a command of higher fees, even more importantly, right? Because higher fees, more commitment. More commitment, better results.”This is a challenge I see with coaches who have a heart for beginners and strugglers…and go straight to group coaching offers so they can be “affordable.”When coaching is TOO affordable, it’s too easy to disregard. You get half-hearted commitment, and the clients get half-hearted results.The right book can change all that.So can hosting the right show, in my opinion. I’ve seen it and lived it.When you put high quality content into the world, you create a cycle of…* authority status* commanding higher fees* clients who commit and execute* results they can’t stop talking about* testimonials and success stories that get prospects to buyThat’s a cycle you’ll want to stay in for your entire coaching career.PS If you’re a coach, speaker or author here’s how our agency can help…Done-for-You Content Production & Strategy - We turn raw footage into professional YouTube videos, podcasts and email newsletters. All with zero overwhelm, guaranteed.From Michael Maher and Lars Hedenborg to Jeff Cohn and Marki Lemons Ryhal, we’ve been the content team behind many of your fellow real estate coaches, speakers and authors.We start every client engagement by developing your ‘Signature Talk’ - So you have a message you’re excited to take to stages, guest interviews and all your content.Then we launch your flagship video show - supported by audio podcast and email newsletter, delivered with pro-quality and relentless consistency. We promote with short video clips and social posts on any platform where you’re active.Each month we give you research-based video title and topic ideas, scripts, outlines, even slides. Plus all the support you need to stay consistent, from email updates to strategy calls.So if you’re not putting out the quality of content…consistently…to become the thought leader you’re meant to be, let’s talk. Click here to learn more and schedule a Free Brainstorm Call. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit rethoughtleaders.substack.com

Community-driven events are very different from big name brokerage or coaching events.They value different things.Choose topics differently.Find speakers differently.Karen is on both sides, as a speaker and running her annual conference, Empowering Women in Real Estate. Here are a few of the…Non-Obvious Insights from our Conversation:Look for Communities Where You Fit the Vibe and Conversation Already Taking PlaceHere’s Karen on her process for searching for speakers…“It just starts on social media. Honestly, I just start connecting. I already know a lot of people. So it’s either people that jumped out at me from social media for whatever reason that I’ve connected to through other people. Maybe it’s conversations I’ve had in my team or just the flow of conversation I see happening in our Facebook group, then I’ll target a speaker or a panel around that.”If you want to speak at this kind of event, your best bet is to already be in the community, contributing and being visible. But if not, you’ll have to show the event organizer that you understand and resonate with the community.For the event organizer, one of the worst outcomes is a speaker that gets the audience thinking, “Why did they put THIS speaker on stage??”Get Involved & Build Relationships WELL in Advance“Plans start early, honestly…following the event, I have to take time off… so once I come back about a week later is usually when we start putting things together. Right now it’s 9-10 months out from our 2026 event…. And we’re looking at venues. I’ve already booked two speakers.”The planning for next year’s event starts the week after this year’s event. That’s how far out event organizers are thinking and planning. If you’re pitching 3-4 months before an event, the entire speaking lineup might already be locked down.Reverse Engineer the Emotional Effect You Want to Have on the Audience“We do a debrief generally within 24-48 hours following the event so we can talk about what went well, who did we love, who did the room respond well to, what do we never want to do again?We also send out a survey to our attendees…the questions are really catered to the different speakers. A great example is one of our speakers…last year was so well-received, literally every single survey mentioned her. And we actually had her back to speak at a virtual event this week. So that’s how we do it.”Repeat and referral speaking gigs are a game of optimizing how the audience feels, throughout (and especially) at the end of your talk.Instead of planning your talk from beginning to end, try reversing that. First think about your topic, and what emotion you want to make the audience feel. Then go backwards through the stories, examples, ideas or concepts that will stir up that emotion. You’ll end up at the start, but it will probably be a very different talk.People will forget 99% of what you say. But if you make them feel something, they’ll remember you.Want to go deeper? Click on the audio file for the full chat, where Karen shared more on her mission with Empowering Women in Real Estate. You can also search Real Estate Thought Leaders on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or Hit Reply and share any insight or opinion you have on the booking process for community-driven eventsAsk This:If you were left to your own devices, giving a standard talk, what emotional effect do you have on the audience?Are they…inspired…overwhelmed by options…determined, hopeful, cheerful?The emotional effect needed to overcome inertia and motivate prospects to buy from you probably isn’t the same effect you want to have on an audience at an event. Especially if you’re looking to create more speaking opportunities.Quick Links & ResourcesEmpowering Women in Real Estate conferenceEmpowering Women in Real Estate podcastKaren’s book Empowering Women in Real Estate - a collection of short storiesFacebook Group that started it allKaren on InstagramThanks so much to Karen for taking us behind the scenes of a very unique event! Connect with her on Instagram, or get involved in the Facebook Group (if you fit the vibe and conversation). If you’re looking for a guest for your podcast or YouTube channel, she’s fantastic as well, let me know if you want a personal intro!Talk soon,-MattAgency Founder & Author of MicroFamousPS Here’s how we can help…Done-for-You Content Production & Strategy - We turn raw footage into professional YouTube videos, podcasts and email newsletters. All with zero overwhelm, guaranteed.From Michael Maher and Lars Hedenborg to Jeff Cohn and Marki Lemons Ryhal, we’ve been the content team behind many of your fellow real estate coaches, speakers and authors.We start every client engagement by developing your ‘Signature Talk’ - So you have a message you’re excited to take to stages, guest interviews and all your content.Then we launch your flagship video show - supported by audio podcast and email newsletter, delivered with pro-quality and relentless consistency. We promote with short video clips and social posts on any platform where you’re active.Each month we give you research-based video title and topic ideas, scripts, outlines, even slides. Plus all the support you need to stay consistent, from email updates to strategy calls.So if you’re not putting out the quality of content…consistently…to become the thought leader you’re meant to be, let’s talk. Click here to learn more and schedule a Free Brainstorm Call. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit rethoughtleaders.substack.com

Ever finished your talk and looked out at a confused audience?Horrible feeling. And you’re not alone.“I used to give talks…on panels, interviews…where I’d talk about strategy….And I noticed a lot of the audience would be sitting there dumbfounded, not in a good way, but basically confused.” That’s Eric Simon, founder of BAM Media.Starting with his Broke Agent following on social media, Eric co-founded BAM, and has grown BAMx into possibly the largest hybrid group coaching/community membership in real estate.Along the way, he and the BAM team have put on physical events both large and small, as well as regular themed virtual events with guest speakers like Alex Hormozi. So Eric is on both sides, speaking and booking speakers. Here are the…Non-Obvious Insights from our Conversation:Marked-Up Screenshots are a Secret WeaponThanks to Sharran Srivatsaa serving on the board of BAM, Eric had an experience that changed how he built his talks. Sharran interviewed him on stage, breaking down Eric’s videos and social posts on screen in front of the audience. The result?“By far the best talk I’ve ever given…because you get the audience reaction from the video itself…Then another thing you want to do is show proof over promise. This is not my idea, this is another Sharran thing. So it’s really just showing what worked, why it worked, and the results.”In Eric’s case, that meant sharing marked up screenshots, including circling the results (like engagement numbers on specific posts), so the audience had visual, concrete proof.It’s easy to forget about this when building slide decks for a talk. Or maybe you disregard screenshots because they don’t look professional, or you’d have to blur out some details, which is extra work.Eric’s point is that all of that…capturing the right screenshot, marking it up, adding it into the slide deck, picking the right spot…it’s all worth it. Because the effect on the audience is SO much greater.Send Your Slide Deck EARLY & Offer to Walk Through It on Zoom“Sometimes [we] do have to just take a flyer though [on a new speaker]…like if we’re filling a full day of content…The due diligence leading up to it, a lot of it is consuming the [speaker’s] content and then actually saying, ‘Hey, what do you want to talk about?’ Zooming with them and going over their presentation.”With some seasoned speakers, Eric said it would be ‘psychotic’ to ask them to go over their presentation in advance. But for everyone else, it’s part of their vetting and preparation.One of the biggest pet peeves of event organizers are speakers sending their slide decks late. Don’t make the event organizer’s life harder. They all talk to each other, so even little mistakes can cost you referrals and repeat gigs.Remove Risk By Publishing Long Form Content“If I hear someone that’s really good on YouTube or a podcast or has their own podcast, I’ve heard them speak long form....That’s probably someone that’s a little bit better and more tuned on stage than someone who maybe had an Instagram post go viral and wants to speak on a social panel.”For many ‘casual speakers,’ you don’t have great footage of you speaking on stage.Tracking down footage from past events is tough, and many speakers end up hiring a videographer just to get good footage. After all, the event videographer is documenting the event, they’re not there to serve your needs.So while speaker reels are critical (and we’ll happily edit yours if you’re a client), without a killer speaker reel, long form content is your best option to remove the risk of booking you. Especially polished, pro-level YouTube videos, 5-10 minutes long, shot in ‘talking head’ style, just you and the camera.That’s enough for event organizers to see your delivery and body language, the type of energy you bring, the topics you cover, and whether you truly have something unique to say. That goes a long way to remove their risk of putting you on stage.‘New Blood’ Matters More Than Big Name“I don’t think [big names] move the needle as much as people think, meaning the speakers don’t actually get people to sign up…In the real estate space, it’s really the brand of the person throwing the event that matters more….Like if you get a Gary Vaynerchuk, Gary is not going to post that he’s going to this thing…We’re always looking for new blood because I kind of feel like the whole real estate space is a little incestuous…where you’ve seen everybody speak so many times. If you’ve been to a REAL conference or a Tom Ferry conference, or hopefully you’ve been to a BAM conference, we’re not trying to repeat the same people over and over again. So we look at our speakers really based on the topics we want to cover.”Eric isn’t the only event organizer who’s told me this. They know that to keep attracting an audience, they need new hooks and new angles to get people to show up.So if you’re a ‘casual speaker’ (speaking a few times a year), “new blood” is a powerful position to claim. Lean into it, pick a topic that’s current without being a potential fad, and play up your fresh perspective.Want to meet in person?I’ll be at the BEATS conference, April 19-22nd in Oklahoma City.Last week’s guest, Craig Grant, puts on this event to connect speakers with the associations and event organizers who book them.I can’t imagine a more straight line to booking more speaking gigs.If you’re attending, or interested in attending, hit me with any questions or let’s connect prior. It would be great to meet in person!Ask This:What examples, screenshots or visual demonstrations can you add to your Signature Talk that would make it more powerful, impactful and concrete to the audience?Quick Links & ResourcesBAM Media WebsiteBAM Virtual Events Page - Check out BAMFest in April and BAM BBQ in JulyBAMx - ‘The #1 Agent Community to Close More Deals’Massive thanks to Eric for being so fun and brutally honest! What he and the BAM team have built is super impressive, and they’re working on bigger things to drive membership growth. I know I’ll be checking in with Eric down the road to see what’s worked and what didn’t.Talk soon,-MattAgency Founder & Author of MicroFamousPS Here’s how we can help…Done-for-You Content Production & Strategy - We turn raw footage into professional YouTube videos, podcasts and email newsletters. All with zero overwhelm, guaranteed.From Michael Maher and Lars Hedenborg to Jeff Cohn and Marki Lemons Ryhal, we’ve been the content team behind many of your fellow real estate coaches, speakers and authors.We start every client engagement by developing your ‘Signature Talk’ - So you have a message you’re excited to take to stages, guest interviews and all your content.Then we launch your flagship video show - supported by audio podcast and email newsletter, delivered with pro-quality and relentless consistency. We promote with short video clips and social posts on any platform where you’re active.Each month we give you research-based video titles and topic ideas, scripts, outlines, even slides. Plus all the support you need to stay consistent, from email updates to strategy calls.So if you’re not putting out the quality of content…consistently…to become the thought leader you’re meant to be, let’s talk. Click here to learn more and schedule a Free Brainstorm Call. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit rethoughtleaders.substack.com

Most of us are casual speakers.You get a handful of opportunities a year.If you could increase that to 1-2 times a month…you’d 2X…even 5X your business.Selling more services, books and courses to the audience, of course. But also the added exposure and marketing content that comes from consistent speaking gigs.But there’s a LOT you don’t know.Things event organizers notice….and mention to each other…but will never tell you.And what you don’t know…is killing your chances of getting booked consistently.That’s why I reached out to Craig Grant…* Pro speaker* Averaging 150+ speaking gigs a year* Founder of Real Estate Technology InstituteHe’s also the creator and event organizer for the BEATS conference - a conference for speakers to be found and those who hire them, April 19-22 in Oklahoma City.I’ll be attending, and a client, Marki Lemons Ryhal, is a keynote speaker. If you’re attending, hit REPLY and let me know!Now let’s get into the…10 Things “Casual Speakers” Don’t Know That Are Quietly Locking You OUT of More Speaking GigsYou’re treating gigs like gigs.“It’s a cardinal sin…they just show up, do their thing, shake a couple hands and leave. …If I can turn that gig into a friendship, I almost guarantee I’m going to get additional gigs…I have clients who, if they book me, they reach out to other associations, other companies in the geographic area,...they’ll literally build the trip for me.” - Craig GrantI’m absolutely guilty of this. But speakers who do 100+ events a year treat every gig like the beginning of a friendship. That’s a mindset shift any of us can make. And it can turn one gig into multiple gigs.You have no idea what event organizers actually WANT right now.“Having good relationships and communicating with my clients (event organizers) all the time does help me with that. The other thing is I read the RFPs. So if a conference puts out an RFP (request for proposals) I read the details. A lot of times they tell you right in those RFPs, what kinds of topics they’re really looking for. And sometimes you [have] to mold your topic into fitting what they want.”While casual speakers are guessing, Craig is doing market research. So maybe you don’t have event organizers on speed dial, but anyone can read RFPs.You’re a jack of all topics.“If you talk to a lot of association executives or people that hire for events, they’ll literally tell you the worst thing a speaker could ever say is ‘I can speak on that!’ They don’t want somebody who just figures it out. They want a subject matter expert.”You don’t fit into their ‘mental rolodex.’“Every hiring person, they have a little mental Rolodex in their head. So if they’re putting together their education calendar or an event, they’re [thinking], ‘I need somebody for [this topic]. Who are my top three people that popped in my head right away for that topic’. You want to be in their little mental Rolodex of that top three people they think of in your subject matter.”You can’t be in three Rolodexes for three different topics.That’s why it’s so important that your video show, podcast, email newsletter and social content all revolve around a single, unified message.That makes it very, very easy for event organizers to instantly know your key topic and where you fit in their mental Rolodex.In our done-for-you service, we help our agency clients stay on message in a bunch of different ways from the topics we suggest, or the copywriting in the content we produce, to scripts, outlines and personalized coaching on how they record their video content. It’s absolutely critical and will instantly set you apart from the sea of competing coaches, speakers and authors.You’re riding a topic that peaked two years ago and you don’t even know it.“I’ve pivoted many times over my career. I’ve been speaking about AI at least in pieces for the last 20 years. But [when] it blew up at the end of 2022, I realized it had to become a dedicated topic. I couldn’t just sprinkle it in. Reading those tea leaves…figuring out when to pivot…is huge.”Craig gave the example of speakers in the tech space jumping on crypto and making it their primary topic. And it worked….right up until it didn’t. You’re doing free gigs without negotiating the terms of the free gig.Everyone says “do free gigs to get started.” Fine. But Craig didn’t just do free gigs…“When I did that, I told them, I’m going to come in and do this free or dirt cheap, but you’ve got to help me out if I crush it. If I do a great job, you’ve got to guarantee you’re going to hire me and you’ve got to at least call a couple of your friends and tell them how good I was. And they were happy to do it because they were able to hire me for nothing. Treat your first few gigs almost like an audition to build up your speaker profile.”I love this approach because it maintains your value as a speaker, and ties a concession on speaker compensation to something concrete…referrals and more opportunities.You don’t have a speaker reel and you’re wondering why nobody’s calling.“I always say for a speaker, the most important thing you need if you don’t have it is a speaker reel, an actual video content of you speaking in front of an audience, because nobody is going to invest money and bring you in if they don’t know you’re good in front of a crowd. So creating that little hype video of how good of a speaker you are goes a long, long way.”In our done-for-you service, our team can edit a speaker reel for you. All we need is raw footage of you speaking in front of a crowd. If you don’t have that, the next best thing is having a video show (which we produce as part of our service).A great speaker reel removes risk. As Craig put it, “that’s what most [hiring people] will say.. just don’t make me look bad.”You’ve never once asked the person who booked you to dinner.“I can’t tell you how many clients have told me, ‘Wow, nobody’s ever asked me that before. I’d love to!’ And even if they can’t, they’re still shocked that I even wanted to do so. So it really does break down a lot of barriers.Then when I send them that friend request on Facebook or whatever network they’re on, they accept it. And then they get to see what’s going on in my family life, what I see what’s going on in theirs, and that becomes talking points in our friendships. It’s not just showing up and speaking for two hours. Now I’m building that friendship and getting more business out of it because of it.”When it comes to building relationships with event organizers, the bar has been set pretty low. Doesn’t take much to clear it and make a lasting impression on event organizers.You’re leaving the event promotion entirely up to the organizer.“I am hardcore about the fact that if you hire me, I am providing you marketing materials. I know if I control the marketing, I control the message and the look…that I can help fill those seats. If it’s struggling, I’ll [offer to] do a webinar for them, whatever we need to do. But the way I do things is ‘I’m going to help you make sure all those seats are filled.”Craig has built a system that allows him to create co-branded marketing materials in that sponsor’s logo, their color scheme, everything…so he knows they’ll use it. He understands that to an event organizer, his session is just one thing on the To Do list.By stepping in and providing materials and support, he’s no longer just a speaker that checked a box, he’s part of the solution to a pressing problem…filling the seats.You have no business plan for your speaking.“I really believe that most people in the speaking industry don’t treat it like a business. I run my speaking business like a flat out business. Business plans, budgets…I forecast everything. I have processes in place for how I’m going to get hired and where I’m going to get hired.”Maybe you only want to speak 1-2x a month, so you don’t need complex forecasting and budgeting. But you can still have a plan for that 1-2 per month level.Treat speaking as an ongoing system, with dedicated timeblocks for…* Follow up* Optimizing your slide deck* Improving your presentation and body language* Building a dedicated Speaker page with a killer speaker reel* Tweaking and improving your ‘Signature Talk’ - something we do with every client when they first sign upBasically, go from ‘casual speaker’ to ‘pro speaker who is very selective about how many opportunities you take.’You don’t realize that event organizers are a tiny, tight-knit community who all talk to each other.“It’s crazy. I’ve talked to so many speakers who have blown up. It’s like all of a sudden at one point, your phone starts ringing like crazy. And your email inbox is getting stocked because they talk to each other. Which is another reason why I’m so focused on relationships with my clients…they’re a small community…So if you do a great job in one location, they tell their friends how good you were and [tell them] to bring you in as well.”I love that real estate is such a small world. But it also means every single gig is critical and should be treated accordingly.One great performance can get you recommended across an entire network.One mediocre, transactional, show-up-and-leave performance gets you... crickets.Which might be worse than a bad review, because at least a bad review means they remembered you!Want to go deeper? Click on the audio file for the full chat, or search Real Estate Thought Leaders on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Craig dropped so many incredible nuggets in this conversation, it’s worth listening to multiple times to catch everything.Steal This:Create a recurring timeblock - a dedicated time where you treat speaking as a business.Even one hour a month could create exponential opportunities.Quick Links & ResourcesBEATS Conference - April in Oklahoma CityReal Estate Technology InstituteCraig’s websiteConnect with Craig on Facebook or InstagramMassive thanks to Craig, he showed up and just gave, gave and gave some more!If you want to get more speaking opportunities, get yourself to the BEATS conference.Craig started the event to bring educators and associations together. You literally get to network with association staff, event organizers and other speakers.Our client, Marki Lemons Ryhal, who already speaks on 100+ stages a year, is one of the keynote speakers.-MattAgency Founder & Author of MicroFamousPS…When you’re ready, here’s how we can help…Done-for-You Content Production & Strategy - We turn raw footage into professional YouTube videos, podcasts and email newsletters. All with zero overwhelm, guaranteed.From Michael Maher and Lars Hedenborg to Jeff Cohn and Marki Lemons Ryhal, we’ve been the content team behind many of your fellow real estate coaches, speakers and authors.We start every client engagement by developing your Signature Talk - uncovering the Clear & Compelling Idea that serves as the ‘north star’ of your content. So you have a message you’re excited to take to stages, guest interviews and videos.Then we launch your flagship video show, supported by audio podcast and email newsletter, delivered with pro-quality and relentless consistency. We promote with short video clips and social posts on any platform where you’re active.And you get all the support you need to stay consistent, from research-based video title and topic ideas, scripts, outlines, even slides, to weekly updates and monthly strategy calls.So if you’re not putting out the quality of content…consistently…to become the thought leader you’re meant to be, let’s talk. Click here to learn more and schedule a Free Brainstorm Call. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit rethoughtleaders.substack.com

It was the AI platform that originally caught my eye…But my conversation with founder Sean Soderstrom brought up something even more interesting:They don’t use AI cold email tactics to promote their AI-powered platform.That led to some killer insights that go way beyond AI and into the psychology of earning attention.If you don’t know Sean, you should, he was…* Dir of Expansion & Regional Management at Compass* Co-leader of McKinsey’s North American Residential Real Estate practiceNow the founder of Courted.io - a platform that aims to help brokers recruit agents, retain talent and stay ahead of the market.Let’s jump into the…Non-Obvious Insights from our Conversation:Down Markets Cause LESS Turnover in Agents, Not More.“The rate that agents move between brokerages each year [is] fairly consistently between 15 to 18% of agents switching companies each year.But statistically speaking…fewer agents move in a down market, which I was surprised by because…People always said more [agents] move in a down market.” - Sean SoderstromA good reminder to question assumptions and look for hard data (if you can get your hands on it).Knowing that fewer agents move in down markets gives you better insight into agents’ mindset in tough times. Which allows you to create better content or outreach if you…Give Agents Unique Insights About THEMSELVES.Sean broke down their early growth strategy like this…“Let’s go tell them something that they don’t know about themselves. That’s hugely valuable. So what our team does takes more time, but they’ll screenshot…a cool summary of what’s happening in [the brokers] office [or area] and send that to them.[something] like ‘Here are the 5 agents that are going to be moving [brokerages in your area]. And…here are the 5 emails that you should send to them. If you want to just copy and send this…”So instead of mass content marketing, they go one-to-one. Their team…* Generates unique insights using their own AI platform* Puts those insights into one-to-one, ultra-custom cold emails* Email content speaks to the pain of losing agents or the gain of attracting agentsBut the reason it’s worked for them as an outreach strategy is that element of “This will tell you something you didn’t know about yourself”It’s the same reason quizzes & persona tests go viral on social media (your aunt might be filling one out on Facebook right now).It’s also the reason we see trends like this on YouTube.. “Every Hidden Advantage of [___] Explained” -If you can break your audience down into types and explain the hidden advantages of each, you can accomplish several things in one piece of content…* Use a unique hook that feels personal…so you grab agents’ attention* Give each type a reason to feel good about themselves…so you deliver a self-esteem boost* Show how you help each type succeed… so you create demand for your offersWant to Recruit Agents? Stop Sending Mass Email.“Maybe there’s an AI way of doing it [cold outreach], but there’s too many emails in this industry. So we don’t promote for our customers to send mass emails because especially in agent recruiting…[there’s] not an infinite number of prospects.When you’re focused on a segment you really want to go after, it’s about building relationships.”Sean is a fan of the Ninja Selling approach, even quoting Larry Kendall’s ‘Give Ask Receive’ as the basis of their outreach system.They don’t send cold emails pushing their service, they lead with unique insight the prospect can’t get anywhere else.And they don’t ask for a prospect’s time until they’ve given something valuable and built the relationship. Sean thinks about it almost as one-to-one content marketing, a really interesting concept!Want to join the conversation?Hit Reply and shoot me some thoughts, or if you read this on the Substack app, leave a comment.Want to go deeper? Click on the audio file for the full chat, or search Real Estate Thought Leaders on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.Steal This:Look for ways you can tell your audience something they didn’t know about themselves.Do you have access to unique data?Could you run polls or surveys of your audience? Do you have specific ways you serve different types of agents?Even if you just have opinions on why certain lead gen tactics work better for certain personality types, that’s a great start to a video or podcast episode.Quick Links & ResourcesCourted.ioConnect with Sean on LinkedInMassive thank you to Sean for giving freely of his time while being in the hustle stage with Courted.io. Check out what the platform can do, and if you want to bring Sean on a podcast or video show to talk recruiting and agent trends, he has hard data and unique insights to share!-MattAgency Founder & Author of MicroFamousPS Here’s how we can help…Done-for-You Content Production & Strategy - We turn raw footage into professional YouTube videos, podcasts and email newsletters. All with zero overwhelm, guaranteed.From Michael Maher and Lars Hedenborg to Jeff Cohn and Marki Lemons Ryhal, we’ve been the content team behind many of your fellow real estate coaches, speakers and authors. We start every client engagement by developing your Signature Talk - uncovering the Clear & Compelling Idea that serves as the ‘north star’ of your content. So you have a message you’re excited to take to stages, guest interviews and videos.Then we launch your flagship video show, supported by audio podcast and email newsletter, delivered with pro-quality and relentless consistency. We promote with short video clips and social posts on any platform where you’re active. And you get all the support you need to stay consistent, from research-based video title and topic ideas, scripts, outlines, even slides, to weekly updates and monthly strategy calls. So if you’re not putting out the quality of content…consistently…to become the thought leader you’re meant to be, let’s talk. Click here to learn more and schedule a Free Brainstorm Call. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit rethoughtleaders.substack.com

I want to pull back this week and give a 30,000 ft view.I reached out to Jeff Levine because he’s served in nearly every role in the industry.High producing agent, team leader, broker, even association leader at multiple levels.In our conversation he called out several key, long-term disruptive trends that are shifting the landscape right underneath brokers, agents, brands and associations.“There has to be a shift. We have to realize things are not always going to be the same as they were. And this goes even back to agents. Agents have to realize that what worked for the last 10, 15, 100 years is not what the next 10, 15, 100 years are going to look like for this industry.” - Jeff LevineSo let’s get into the…Non-Obvious Insights & PredictionsFor Brokers, the Commission Split Model is Broken“There’s lots of things that brokerages offer. Now, there’s a lot of ancillary businesses that tie into that too. So there is the profit margins or the profitability of a brokerage might look different in the future, but it’s always fueled by production. All the entities are fueled by production. So the more production you have within your ecosystem, the more that you have potential to do ancillary business with.”This is creating all sorts of friction between brokerages and teams, with some brokerages being very anti-team, and some being very pro-team.And if you’re on the coaching side, with high producing agents or team leader clients, you need to keep these dynamics in mind. A poor fit with a broker leads to poor relationships, friction and ultimately, distraction from the agent’s or team’s growth.This also creates opportunities for content - helping agents and teams cash in on ancillary services, find a brokerage that aligns with their vision, and how to build good relationships with their broker so they can focus on production.Teams Are Beginning to Serve as “Farm Systems” for Brokerages“There’s an opportunity there too, right? Because we know that…if 10 agents come into the business, we’re looking at 1-2 actually survive. Well, with having teams in place, it probably raises those numbers to 3-4 to survive within the brokerage. There’s volume, there’s additional leads, there’s assisting, there’s lots of other things that could happen.”I love this point because I’ve been around real estate teams enough to know he’s right about the core idea. Teams give new agents a better chance to succeed than the traditional brokerage model (like the one I experienced in my 20s).If agents eventually leave their team but stay within the brokerage, there’s an opportunity to create a new (and better) relationship between team and broker. That’s where Jeff sees the broker/team relationship heading, where the broker focuses on serving teams.“So I think the brokerage model needs to shift a little bit and become all those, anything that the team needs or needs support or is lacking, or there’s a gap, that’s where the broker should be able to come in and show value to the teams.”For content creation, this can be spun in multiple ways. For brokers, this “farm system” shift might be good, and you can certainly create content around that shift. But content that speaks to agent retention within the team will reach team leaders.Interstate Migration is Bringing New Competition“Traditional real estate brokerages and agents here in Florida that have been basically entrenched in the market for up to 100 years…they haven’t had this outside competition…Boutique agencies you might know from the NYC, Chicago, or California that never had a footprint here in Florida…that now DO have a footprint because of their investors and their people moving to Florida.”I hadn’t thought about this side of demographic migration in the US. Basically it’s creating competitive invasions where boutique brokerages follow their clients into new markets, forcing 100-year-old local brands to compete against out-of-state brands they’ve never faced before.For content creation, show agents, teams and brokerages how to differentiate. How to find their strengths, claim a position based on those strengths, and sharpen their message to the consumer.Want to go deeper? Click on the audio file for the full chat, or search Real Estate Thought Leaders on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.Or Hit Reply and tell me what you’re seeing!Ask This:Are you creating content on the trends that will shape 2026?Now is the perfect time to make content around trends and predictions for the year.Quick Links & ResourcesConnect with Jeff on FacebookConnect with Jeff on InstagramHuge thanks to Jeff for this fun, wide-ranging conversation! Make sure to connect with him on Facebook and Instagram, and keep him in mind for guest features on other shows!-MattAgency Founder & Author of MicroFamousPS Here’s how we can help…Done-for-You Content Strategy & Production - From Michael Maher and Lars Hedenborg to Jeff Cohn and Marki Lemons Ryhal, we’ve been the content team behind many of your fellow real estate coaches, speakers and authors. We turn raw footage into polished YouTube videos, podcasts and email newsletters, all with zero overwhelm. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit rethoughtleaders.substack.com

Speakers rarely get to see through the eyes of an event organizer.But Jeff Cohn did.Each year running The Team Building Summit, Jeff and his team carefully tracked which speakers…* delivered great content* created the most buzz* received rave reviews from attendeesBecause he was putting his own money on the line to throw those events, he also spent a lot of time thinking about which speakers to book and how their content and delivery affected the audience.And he’s come to believe that speakers aren’t judged on how smart your content is, but on how you deliver it emotionally.So this newsletter is for any coach, speaker or author who uses speaking gigs to sell, and you want your next speaking gig to turn into more speaking gigs.Non-Obvious Insights from our Conversation:No One Wants a Perfect Speaker“You win audiences by actually making fun of all the things you’re embarrassed about. If you let them see all of those things, they’re actually going to like you more. All the things you’re on stage worrying people [will] find out about you, you WANT everyone to find out…and then still deliver your message”If you’ve read the book Letting Go by David Hawkins, he shares a story of how he dealt with his fear of public speaking.He called out his flaw, admitting right up front that he was a boring speaker. Then he read his entire talk, barely looking up from his papers!Yet it still went well. The audience could relax. He was a speaker they could relate to. Suddenly it didn’t matter that he was boring, because the audience was “in on the joke.”Topics Come First…Speakers Come Second“Recruiting is a big deal...So if we knew we wanted to have a breakout around recruiting agents, we would ask all of our clientele, maybe 3-4 months leading up to the event, we’d [ask] Who feels like they’re doing a great job recruiting?”Not every event organizer goes about it this way, and certain speakers are so well-known that they’re booked first and adjust their topic to the event.But in many, many cases, event organizers are just like Jeff…they plan the topics first, speakers second.So your strongest position is to be KNOWN for a high-value topic in high demand.If you haven’t reached that point yet, the next strongest position is to produce content on that topic so consistently that you come up in a search for speakers on that topic.In the case of Jeff and Elite Real Estate Systems, they put their coaching clients on stage as subject matter experts. They only brought in outside speakers for topics where they couldn’t find clients with that expertise. This is a super powerful tactic for coaching organizations, and a great way to build a pipeline of future staff coaches.Other types of events work differently. But any big event will have a bench of last year’s speakers to consider before they look for new speakers.Your content needs to be consistent and compelling enough that when event organizers start googling or asking around, your name comes up.It’s Not the Words You Say, But the Way You Say the Words“I’ve said this a lot when I teach agents dialogue training. It’s not the words you say, but the way you say the words. Even me saying that quote just now, I slowed down and was more intentional to deliver the message. It’s not the words you say, it’s the way you say the words.”Never sacrifice energy and emotional content to get the words perfect.It’s far better to fumble some of your words and still have the right energy and emotional content in your delivery.This is especially true on stage and on video, where the audience sees your body language and facial expressions.I’ve given this advice to many, many clients as we produce their video shows and other content.Are there places where the exact words are important?Yes, the intro of a YouTube video. That’s about it.Everywhere else, energy and emotional content are more important.How to Double Your Coaching Retention…“When we first launched coaching, clients [stayed] for 7-10 months. That’s kind of the average. When we started hosting the yearly events, I’d say it went to about 12-14 months. People would stay on because they want to attend the next event and they didn’t want to leave and then miss the event, or go to the event and not be in coaching.Everyone feels a badge of honor to go to an event of the company they’re paying. They feel like they’ve invested in this. They believe in this and they want to hang out with you.”This doesn’t mean you have to rent a ballroom and throw down 5 figure deposits for Food & Bev. You can look at options like…* Mastermind happy hours at hotel bars around big conferences* Mastermind dinner that piggybacks on a big industry event* Meetup in a city where multiple clients are within easy driving distanceAnything where you can get face-to-face with your coaching clients will boost retention. The higher quality experience you give them, and the more emotional effect you have on them, the more it boosts your retention.Want to go deeper? Click on the audio file for the full chat, or search Real Estate Thought Leaders on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.There’s SO much in this episode, Jeff also went deep on tactics for creating “Disney Moments” that make your events memorable and profitable:* One weird trick with color coordinated lanyards that created buzz and sparked conversations around their coaching offer* What went into their Welcome Package in every attendee’s hotel room* How they provided Text-to-Order coffee service…without paying extra staff* How they leveraged a “hyper-niche” event to book better sponsors* How they got sponsors to CO-promote the eventCheck out the audio episode because it was a LOT of content in a short time!Steal This:Picture yourself stepping on stage. What’s the ONE thing you hope the audience doesn’t see or find out about you?Now imagine yourself calling out that flaw, whatever it is.Picture the audience breathing a sigh of relief and leaning forward, engaged and ready to hear you. All because you made yourself relatable, and gave them permission to be imperfect, too.Quick Links & ResourcesElite Real Estate Systems websiteMassive thanks to Jeff for spilling all the secrets behind the Team Building Summit. If you need a guest speaker on team building, leadership, culture and lead gen, hit Reply. I’m happy to make a personal intro to Jeff. He brings everything he’s got every time he steps on stage or in front of a mic!-MattAgency Founder & Author of MicroFamousPS Here’s how we can help…Plug-&-Play Content Machine - From Michael Maher and Lars Hedenborg to Jeff Cohn and Marki Lemons Ryhal, we’ve been the content team behind many of your fellow real estate coaches, speakers and authors. We turn conversations into videos, podcasts and email newsletters, all with zero overwhelm. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit rethoughtleaders.substack.com

A few years ago, Alisia Krastel posted a video that helped explode her agent coaching business.“I would have people message me being [saying], ‘Can I schedule a coaching call? When can I start coaching?’ No conversation, no nothing... Even now I have people who [say],’ I watched your video two years ago. Can you start coaching me next week?’ We never have a conversation. They already know me. It’s already done.” - Alisia KrastelHere are the ingredients for that video…* Diaper box* Smartphone* Public restroom“The most effective as far as getting [clients from] my channel was a video that I did in a bathroom at the beach. I spent five weeks at the beach [during] C0vid. I took a leap of faith, did all my real estate, all my coaching from there. Propped my phone up on a diaper box [and said] I’m just going to make it and say what I can do. It [has] 45,000 views. I still get people from it and I still have people saying ‘You are so relatable. And if you can do it like that, I can do it.’ “Alisia is another great example of this new crop of real estate coaches.Radically authentic.Vulnerable without losing credibility.Hyper-specific in her messaging and content style.And making zero apologies.I’ve been excited to share this conversation, and it’s a great one to kick off 2026!Non-Obvious Insights from our Conversation:The Key to Putting the YouTube Algorithm To Work FOR You“If I can reach one, someone like me, YouTube is going to find a hundred more. I just have to get one or two to [say] ‘Yes, this is my content!’ YouTube will take care of the rest. If I’m too broad, then I’m fighting with Mike Sherrard…But if I just stick in my own lane, YouTube will find people who need me.”Here’s how I’d act on that.Visualize your perfect coaching client…Then create a video they’d drop everything to watch.Not just for a few minutes. All the way through.In her experience, that’s where YouTube’s algorithm gave her the biggest push.Her point is if you can just get a few people to care that much about one of your videos, YouTube will find others like them.That defies most YouTube advice…and I love it.When you go for a wider audience, it’s tempting to water down your message.But when you do, you sound like every other coach, speaker, author, whatever. So agents watch for a few minutes and then bounce. Just like every other video.YouTube wants people glued to YouTube. Create videos that do that, even for a small niche of people, and YouTube will find them.Steal Your Audience’s Words“I had 50 hours of interviews with people I wanted to watch my channel so I could get their words….My target audience had the same exact questions. I did a spreadsheet of all the answers… highlighted the commonalities….Put all the questions when they were similar and I [said], “Okay, I’m going to talk about that using those words, even though that’s not my words. And that’s what I think they want.”It’s SO easy to skip this step.Assume you know your target audience.Especially if you ARE your target audience (or were in the past).But even if you’re building an audience of people very similar to you, that doesn’t mean you use the same exact words and phrases they’re using…right now, in this market.We know the power of word choice from copywriting and direct response marketing. One word in a headline can turn a failing campaign into a huge success.And vice versa. One wrong word in a YouTube title or intro, and you might lose your target audience instantly….without knowing why.So the more groundwork you do, the more conversations you have with the kind of agents you want to coach, the more you can deliver a hyper-specific message in their exact language.Your Audience Is Always Searching for the Wrong Thing…Solve the REAL Problem“They want lead generation. They want social media advice, but it’s all hubbed around getting clients. I’m going to do it [create content] in a way that speaks differently to the people I’m going after…What they’re searching for is never what they need, right? So you get them searching for lead gen.”It seems like most content falls into two categories.Copycat - where the creator comes across as a second rate imitation of a bigger nameOriginal (but self-centered) - where the creator’s topics or style is original to them, but they don’t take the audience into account much at all.Alisia is doing something completely different, her content is…Hyper-Targeted & Authentic - That’s the content that builds an ultra-niche, loyal audience.Here’s a bonus tactic that caught my attention…Replace boring PDF lead magnets with actual tools that get your audience results“Now I have guides. So now I have things of value, not crappy PDF downloads. Like I have a plan for new construction that real estate agents can do to create a whole content plan around if they’re afraid of video. They can download that [and] I walk them through how to do it. There’s videos that they can download. Now I have them. And not only do I have them, they love me because I actually helped them instead of just giving them something cheap.”Want to go deeper? Click on the audio file for the full chat, or search Real Estate Thought Leaders on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.Know another upcoming real estate coach?Hit Reply and send me their name or make an introduction!Steal This:If you already have a show, line up 10+ episodes with your ideal coaching clients.Not to sell them, but to ask them the same set of questions and track the answers and language they use. Look for places where they use different language, and test those words in your marketing to see if it boosts response.Quick Links & ResourcesAlisia on YouTubeAlisia’s websiteHuge, huge thanks to Alisia for sharing, there were other insights and tactics I didn’t have room for, so listen to the conversation for those.If you need a podcast or show guest, Alisia would be an amazing guest. Let me know if you want a personal introduction!-MattAgency Founder & Author of MicroFamousPS Here’s how we can help…Plug-&-Play Content Machine - From Michael Maher and Lars Hedenborg to Jeff Cohn and Marki Lemons Ryhal, we’ve been the content team behind many of your fellow real estate coaches, speakers and authors. We turn raw footage into polished videos, podcasts and email newsletters, all with zero overwhelm. GUARANTEED. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit rethoughtleaders.substack.com

I’m sure this episode will annoy some people, but it can’t be helped.Whatever your opinion of Inman…(and I genuinely don’t care)The question of how to become a contributor has come up a LOT over the years. I contributed articles for several  years and always had good experiences, especially with Dani Vanderboegh, editor and Head of Contributor Program. So I asked her to step into the spotlight a bit (which she’s not accustomed to) and share what makes a great contributor, article and pitch. Because it amuses me, let’s start with the quickest way to shoot yourself in the foot…Self-serving content.“Just doing it for vanity purposes is maybe not a great idea…or doing it simply to get on stage…that type of content is a turnoff to readers. Nobody wants to read about your business. They want to learn from what you have to say.” - Dani  VanderboeghWith that out of the way, here are the…Non-Obvious Insights from our Conversation:Pitch Something SurprisingAt this point, Inman’s goal is to cover any big conversation going on in the industry, and present all major sides. So Dani is looking for articles with a fresh perspective, a unique point of view, that hasn’t been covered in previous articles.“A perfect pitch for me is two to three paragraphs. It starts with the hook and why it's relevant now. And then offers very short, succinct ideas on what you're bringing to the table in this discussion that we have not already discussed... undiscovered insights are what we're looking for.”Don’t pitch “the definitive” article on a topic. Zero in on ONE part of the conversation that’s overlooked, neglected or glossed over.Then pitch a BIG hook…bold opinionsunusual anglessecondary effectsoverlooked perspectives predictions based on overlooked factorsimpacted groups that haven’t had their voice heard yetIf you recognize this process, it’s what great journalists have been doing for 100s of years. It’s what great YouTubers are doing every day. A little extra care and intention on the hook can be the difference between getting published or not.An example would be something like this…The Mistake: Pitching "6 Ways to Use Video in 2026."The Winning Pitch: "Polished listing videos kill your engagement…consumers want 'messy’' content AND it generates more leads”Why this works: Bold opinion, non-obvious insight…AND a bite-sized tactic agents can try that day.Use AI Sparingly or Not at All.“Our kind of…guideline, if you will…for how to use AI as a writer is [that] it's fine to use it as an idea generation type tool, but we want your anecdotal experiences and your thoughts. So if it's all just very clinical, that's not something we're [looking for].”When you read and edit articles every day, you spot AI instantly. Not by the easy signs like em dashes, but by feel. The generic tone of authority, the lack of personal stories and anecdotes, the words and phrases AI favors for some odd reason. And editors aren’t the only ones who pick up on AI in writingRyan Levesque writes a weekly newsletter, over 70 weeks running at this point. Up til then he’d used AI in the brainstorm process and even for some of the writing. He asked himself, “Is my use of AI affecting reader engagement?” Since email replies are a decent metric for engagement, he analyzed the number of replies to all of his weekly editions. What he found was shocking.The more he used AI in the writing process, the fewer email replies he got.Readers could pick up AI at a subconscious level in his writing, and at least for him, that directly led to lower engagement. Do I think that’s always the case universally? No, but it’s an interesting anecdote. And I’m keeping an eye out for similar stories from other newsletter writers and email marketers.Lean Into Your Expertise, Not Your Name.Inman is actively looking for contributors with specialized expertise who publish on a specific niche or topic. Dani gave the example of Andrea Brambila, who has covered MLS’s for over 15 years. So even if you’re an established big name in the industry, find a niche you can own. A part of the industry where you have passion, deep expertise, and bold opinions.Choose your niche well, pitch consistently good articles, and then deliver on what you pitched. You’ll probably find yourself on the priority list for publication anytime there’s a big event or conversation that affects your niche.There are only a couple specifics here that are unique to Inman.Otherwise this is a pretty good blueprint for contributing to any industry news or trade publication. And the skillset of looking for unique angles, bold opinions and overlooked factors for your articles will improve all your other content.Quick Links & ResourcesInmanDani’s About page (with contact links)Massive thank you to Dani for stepping into the spotlight! Know someone who’d be an amazing contributor because they obsess over a very specific niche of the industry? Encourage them to submit an article, especially if they’re an active agent or broker. Use the contact info on Dani’s About page to connect.-MattAgency Founder & Author of MicroFamousPS Here’s how we can help…Done-for-You Content Service - From Michael Maher and Lars Hedenborg to Jeff Cohn and Marki Lemons Ryhal, we’ve been the content team behind many of your fellow real estate coaches, speakers and authors. We turn conversations into videos, podcasts and email newsletters, all with zero overwhelm. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit rethoughtleaders.substack.com

Dale Archdekin is one of the sharpest sales coaches I’ve come across in real estate.One of the reasons I have great respect for him is that he doesn’t just have tactics, he has a system.He doesn’t just teach scripts, he teaches agents how to think.This presents a marketing challenge.Most agents want shiny objects and “magic pill” offers.He compared Smart Sales Coaching to running a culinary school while everyone else is selling recipe books.So in this weird market with fewer transactions and less disposable income, he’s responding with strategic generosity.“I don’t have this totally dialed in yet, but we’re giving away something like a half a million dollars worth of free training, over the next 12 months. One of the phrases [we’re using] is ‘Our free training is better than their paid training.’ Come take our free training, do what we tell you to do, and you’ll have the money to invest in even more training and support and guidance.” - Dale ArchdekinStill early days, but I don’t see a downside of staying in front of agents, even with free training. After all, if you coach or lead agents, you’re probably telling agents to step up their level of outreach. Hit their database, be generous with their time, look for problems they can solve, etc.Dale is doing the coaches’ version, but in a creative, attention-grabbing way.But let’s dig deeper into the marketing challenge of selling coaching in a tough market.Non-Obvious Insights from our Conversation:Agents are Working 3X as Hard to Sell Fewer Homes“She said, It used to be so easy. I didn’t really have to follow up with the leads. Now I’m working three times harder and setting fewer appointments and selling fewer houses. Like that’s the quote directly from her. And that’s the experience that I’m getting from most of the agents that we work with, that we talk to.”Dale was very specific that he’s not talking about lazy agents. He’s hearing this from disciplined, consistent and skilled salespeople. So when that’s their reality on the ground, what’s the message that can reach them?He’s changing his messaging to show how better sales skills can offset a down market.“If your sales skills are sharp and your sales skills are better than your competitors, then your lead quality doesn’t have to be as high. You magically find more leads, the more skilled you are as a salesperson.”That’s a pretty good reframe. Does it overcome all objections and magically turn skeptical agents into coaching clients? No, but it’s a really good step along the way.Other Coaches Aren’t Your REAL Competition“Here’s what a lot of agents want to buy…If I sang them a song about how I could provide them with amazing lay down leads that they had to do no work for, there’s no end of the stream of money that I could direct toward that. It’s just not reality. And it’s not true. It’s not what I sell.”It’s easy to get focused on competing coaches, and differentiating from them, while forgetting the real competition is every other option..from “magic pill” lead gen solutions to the latest shiny object to….doing nothing.When you know what your real competition is, you can build that into your marketing.If your real competition is “magic pill” lead gen offers, share the horror stories of clients who came to you after wasting months on those systems.If your competition is inaction…build “opportunity costs” into your marketing. Point out how much money, respect, and time it will cost them if they simply do nothing.Give Agents Tactics as a Window into your SYSTEM“And so I have to get better about what I sell because what I sell is like, ‘Hey, come to my gym and do the pushups. I’ll show you the best way to do pushups, but you still gotta do them. I can’t do the pushups for you.”Dale says he’s still working on how to transition agents from learning one of their sales tactics, to seeing the value in his entire sales system.This reminds me of musicians and music theory.No beginner musician wants to learn scales and modes. Music theory feels dry. It’s not immediately useful. So musicians keep learning a bunch of random stuff, until they hit a wall. They can’t use all the stuff they’ve learned together in any cohesive way.They finally get fed up and do something about it, and that’s when they get into music theory.Agents are the same way with tactics.Agents collect a bunch of random tactics, can’t figure out how to put them together to get results. Finally they get fed up and do something about it. That’s when they’re open to a system.And if you truly have a unique system, odds are you have some unique tactics that only work in the context of your system.If you lead with those tactics, not only will you grab attention, but once agents are exposed to your tactics, it gets them curious about the system behind them.But not every agent will be interested in going beyond the tactics, because they haven’t yet hit that wall hard enough, long enough to get fed up.It’s up to you…in your sales and marketing…to deliver the message: “Keep collecting tactics, and you’ll keep hitting that wall.”Want to go deeper? Click on the audio file for the full chat, or search Real Estate Thought Leaders on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.Or Hit Reply and tell me what you’re seeing in the coaching market. Is demand up for certain coaches because the need is greater? Down due to fewer transactions?Ask This:How could you use a little “strategic generosity” to stay in front of agents?Virtual workshops, free group coaching sessions, uploading a paid course to YouTube, etc.While other coaches are cutting back on marketing, you could be MORE visible, being generous, taking mindshare, and positioning yourself to dominate as the market improves.Quick Links & ResourcesSmart Sales CoachingMore About DaleCa$h Call Podcast - Where Dale and Brian Curtis analyze real prospecting and client calls that real estate agents and ISAs have submitted.Dale is one of my favorite people in this industry, going back to his repeat guest spots on Real Estate Uncensored back in the day. Connect with him and keep him in mind for guest interview and speaking opportunities, he always brings great content and great sense of humor!-MattAgency Founder & Author of MicroFamousPS Here’s how we can help…Done-for-You Content Service - From Michael Maher and Lars Hedenborg to Jeff Cohn and Marki Lemons Ryhal, we’ve been the content team behind many of your fellow real estate coaches, speakers and authors. We turn conversations into videos, podcasts and email newsletters, all with zero overwhelm. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit rethoughtleaders.substack.com

This edition I'm diving into strategic partnerships and business exits.In addition to co-founding ProInsight, Justin hosts Think Bigger Real Estate and wrote The Upstream Model.Justin built his entire business around a non-obvious insight: the biggest opportunities in real estate aren't about getting more leads. They're about strategic partnerships with retiring agents.That led to ProInsight, a platform that optimizes real estate businesses for acquisition and sale. There’s just one problem with marketing a platform like that. No agent waves a banner announcing their retirement. They’re terrified of losing that last deal. So Justin had to get creative.Non-Obvious Insights from our Conversation:Market Your Mistakes."Some of the ways that people trust you the most is when it's not all sunshine and rainbows. It's like [saying], ‘We brokered a deal. Here's what went really well. Here's what we would not do again.’ " -Justin StoddartBrutal honesty works. And it’s going to be necessary over the next few years. Agents are bombarded by polished, professional marketing. Many are downright jaded.Be open about…who your offer isn’t built forwhere it doesn’t work so wellwhat mistakes you made along the wayNot behind closed doors…right in your marketing. Think of it as taking Sandler-style consultative selling and scaling it to a bigger audience.Emotions Are Niches.Justin faced a big challenge. How do you find the right prospects when the things that make them right are invisible in traditional data?He couldn’t buy a list of “agents burning out and worried about retirement.”Justin’s breakthrough was that emotions are their own niche. And to find the emotions, you find the pain.“Those real pain points, [where agents will say] ‘That's me, I loved raising my kids in rainy Oregon, but man, I want to be in Arizona where I can golf nine months out of the year.’ So for us, it's really kind of hitting on the pain. Like [saying] Is this you...Is this something you've experienced? That then opens people up. Cause once you have their attention [we can say] Hey, there actually is a solution for you. We've actually built technology that facilitates this process." Just because an agent is getting older doesn’t mean they’re right for his platform. By speaking to the emotions, he speaks most deeply to the agents his platform serves best. A friend of mine called this “emotional niching.” Create a Marketplace, Don't Just Sell Services."We're actually certifying what we call exit strategists... we're training them on identifying people who would want to sell. Once you hold the inventory, then you can go find a buyer for that business."I’ve heard VC’s say they avoid double-ended marketplaces like the plague. They’re great in concept, but devilishly hard to get right. Justin is avoiding that by creating a certification program for "exit strategists.” Essentially building a network of affiliates who find deals and get paid.When they work, certification programs create exponential reach without exponential effort. Affiliates do the prospecting; Justin provides the platform and takes a small piece of each deal. A smart solution to a tricky growth challenge.Want to go deeper? Click on the audio file above to listen to the full chat, also available on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.Or Hit Reply and tell me what you think…Would you sell your database when you retire?Would you recommend this strategy to younger agents looking to grow faster?Steal This:Make a list of 5 mistakes you could talk about openly in your content. A situation where your offer didn’t work. A client who was a poor fit. An experiment that failed. Quick Links & ResourcesProInsightThink Bigger Real Estate PodcastThe Upstream ModelMassive thanks to Justin for being generous with his time and insights! Make sure to connect with him, check out his podcast, send him guest ideas.And especially if you know of anyone interested in becoming an “exit strategist,” connect them to Justin. Talk soon,-MattCEO - MicroFamousAuthor - MicroFamousPS When you’re ready, here’s one way we can help…Done-for-You Content Service - From Michael Maher and Lars Hedenborg to Jeff Cohn and Marki Lemons-Ryhal, we’ve been the content team behind many of your fellow real estate coaches, speakers and authors. We turn conversations into videos, podcasts and newsletters, with zero overwhelm. With our system, that content creates real authority, influence and impact for our clients. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit rethoughtleaders.substack.com

If you want to dominate a market, there are a couple different paths.Create something with wide, mass-audience appeal. Later, add a higher-end version to capture the luxury market.Create something exclusive, rare and valuable first…then later create a mass-market version.KW is a good example of path #1. Luxury Presence is on path #2.Both paths can work, but I tend to recommend #2 - start high end, go for mass market later. That’s how I built my agency, all my early clients (and favorite clients) are smart, forward-thinking, risk-tolerant leaders with lots of resources to invest in leveling up.So I sat down with Drew Wilke, head of Enterprise Sales, to talk about how Luxury Presence is shifting to a mass-market version of their offer, and what had to change to pull this off.Non-Obvious Insights from our Conversation:Aspirational Luxury Can Be a Growth Lever…Not a Limiting Factor“We were getting inquiries from agents who weren’t necessarily luxury yet, but they had an aspiration to be there. So that’s kind of what sparked [the sense that] there’s a broader opportunity here than just focusing on luxury.” - Drew WilkeWhen you serve the most successful, visible and credible agents, everyone notices. Luxury Presence put this into action by leaning into sharing client success stories from the very beginning.It turned out to be their most effective marketing tactic.“Our clients have always told the story of Luxury Presence…from Jay Mills, our very first client to, you know, recent large clients. And it’s always been in our ethos to have it be that way since day one, even how, when we go to an event, [we’re] always pulling over a client and getting a quick video with them.”So how do you create an aspirational brand?Look at the Nomad Capitalist YouTube channel. Their content is for 8-9 figure entrepreneurs interested in living abroad, creating unique tax structures and gaining second citizenships. But their videos get hundreds of thousands of views, way more views than there are 8-9 figure entrepreneurs. Why? Because 6 and 7 figure entrepreneurs aspire to have 9 figure problems. If you were going to steal the Nomad Capitalist playbook, and apply it to real estate agents, here’s what that would look like…Create content that speaks to problems agents aspire to have.How to handle too many leadsThings that break when sales doubleWhat to do when you get too busy with new clients to serve existing clients at a high levelSell the vision of success. But not just any generic success.Success that’s so dramatic, it actually creates new, fascinating problems. Breaking Out of the Niche Will Require Growth & Growing PainsIf you start high end and exclusive, stepping into the mass-market space means a whole different arena of competition. Entrenched competitors with better…Infrastructure CredibilityBrand awarenessIn the case of Luxury Presence, they had to make a major transition.“We can’t just be a service company only…if we’re going to expand beyond luxury. We can’t scale at that, right? So that really led to investing in being a technology company and [saying] We’re going to build a platform here…We’re not just going to be a website design agency.”The transition for any leader or brand will look different, but the level of growing pains required is probably very similar. It’s a big chance to take, and requires a lot of energy and resources.That’s when serving the high end of the market really pays off. Because you were able to charge good prices with good margins, you have profits built up that you can invest.Without that build up of profits, you probably wouldn’t have a shot at going up against entrenched competition in a serious way.For Indie Experts & Thought Leaders, Choosing a Niche is an Exercise in Personal GrowthNothing reveals ego and fear quite like choosing a niche.I’ve heard leaders say, “Why would I want to be ‘micro famous’…when I could be MACRO famous?”That’s ego talking.I’ve heard leaders say, “Why would I focus all my marketing efforts on one group of people….when everyone in my market can benefit from my offer?”That’s fear talking.How you respond to the fear and ego is up to you. But from a marketing perspective, choosing a niche isn’t optional…it’s a necessity.Agent’s expectations are going up, AI is making everything more personalized, and agents are more hesitant and cynical than we’re used to.I’m hearing that agents are looking for belonging and familiarity.They want to know that if they liked one piece of content from you, they’ll like the next piece of content.Because all your content is for the same type of agent.The YouTube algorithm wants the same thing, by the way.Once an agent watches one video on your channel, the algorithm will serve up another video (or more) in their Home feed and sidebar suggestions. If the next videos an agent sees doesn’t speak to them, they’re moving on.And the algorithm deems your content “not engaging enough” and throttles down your reach.That’s the game we’re playing.Here’s Your Luxury-First Niche Content PlaybookChoose your niche with care and intention - Focus on those with resources to invest and the risk tolerance to try new things.Charge fees that create real profits - Prepare for the eventual breakout move into the mass market.Create content that speaks deeply to that niche - Speak to problems and challenges that other agents aspire to have. Let successful clients do some of your marketing for you - Share client success stories, so agents can see themselves in those stories. Reinforce that vision of success that’s so dramatic, it creates new, fascinating problems.Want to go deeper? Click on the audio file for the full chat, or search Real Estate Thought Leaders on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or Hit Reply and tell me what you’re seeingWhat other leader or brand pulled off this move from high end/luxury to mass market?Steal This:Interview your best clients on video, podcast-style. Focus all on their journey, their story.Of course they’ll have great things to say about you during the conversation.Those soundbites become bite sized content for social media and sales follow up.Quick Links & ResourcesLuxuryPresence.comConnect with Drew on LinkedIn-MattAgency Founder & Author of MicroFamousPS Here's how we can help:Done-for-You Content Service - From Michael Maher and Lars Hedenborg to Jeff Cohn and Marki Lemons-Ryhal, we’ve been the content team behind many of your fellow real estate coaches, speakers and authors. We turn conversations into newsletters, podcasts and videos, all with zero hassle. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit rethoughtleaders.substack.com

“Agents want ease, they want relationships and they want to be part of something bigger than themselves.”That’s how John puts it. And that comes from hundreds of conversations with agents, building his revshare group and hosting his podcast, Real Estate Survival Guide.But what’s behind the shift?Part of it’s generational, part of it’s the last few years…the economythe uncertaintythe loneliness epidemicthe search for real, authentic communityBut this newsletter is about marketing and content strategy for real estate leaders.So I’m going to focus on the marketing opportunity…If the industry is missing some of the real motivators that drive agents…leaders who speak deeply to those motivators have a chance to win BIG with younger agents.Non-Obvious Insights from our Conversation:The Best Way to NEVER Get What You Want Is to Ask For It DirectlyMy [current] lender, had just been commenting on my stuff for a few weeks, [things] like ‘Congratulations, great work!’ So the minute the crap hit the fan, [I reached out] for help…She's probably made $50,000 in two years because of it. She didn't inbox me and say, ‘Can I tell you about this amazing opportunity?’ She didn't say, ‘I'd like to grab coffee with you.’ She supported my stuff.” - John SchuchmanJust like how the lender treated him, John is finding that a relationship-first approach works best in agent attraction.Not because it’s warm and fuzzy, but because leading with relationships aligns with one of the key motivators for younger agents.“There's one percent out there that are in the inboxes, annoying people, and they kind of ruin it for the rest of us. I'm not that person…So my goal is to just build relationships with people, just care genuinely about people."​ So how do you infuse that into your content?Here are a few Action Steps:Share stories of how you’re helping agents with NON-business goals - Don’t just tell agents you care about them, SHOW them with documented actionCollaborate with other leaders to create content - Show agents who YOUR key relationships areShare the spotlight - Put your agent or client success stories front and centerAgents Are Traumatized by Pitch Slaps Before They Even Get Licensed“That's kind of the new agents, where they feel like they're just waiting to be sold…Everyone is waiting for the pitch slap.” Between all the ads for pre-licensing programs, to ads for marketing, software and coaching, new agents are coming in jaded and cynical. AI has exploded the number of cold emails and DMs, too. As a result, we’re all more guarded, more insular, more reliant on our social network and warm intros.How do you respond? Stop pushing, and start building an audience with your content. It’s much better for agents to feel like they’ve discovered you, rather than feeling like you are pushing yourself at them.Here are a few Action Steps:Niche down your content - Speak more deeply and specifically to your ideal agent, so your content stands out to the right agents.Be on the Platforms Agents Use Daily - Looking to attract younger agents? Use TikTok or YouTube Shorts. Going after top producers in their 40s? Use Facebook and Insta, with long form videos on YouTube. Run Ads on Niche Podcasts & YouTube Shows - Show hosts are always open to ways to monetize their shows. Rather than spending on Meta ads, where you compete with the biggest brands and the biggest budgets, go niche. Go right to the leaders who have audiences you want to reach, and offer to pay for a package of 30 second ads, or email placements. Start slow, build the relationship.Agents are Looking for Culture Fit More Than Traditional Factors.“I found this with my clients and now with agents, People want to be around winners. So brands out there, now don't do it in a cocky way, but please on your social media, please share your wins. We want to see them. I'm much more aligned to connect with a brand or an agent in this case. I want to be around winners."​Culture fit isn’t just for physical offices. This goes for virtual brokerages, teams, coaching firms, even SaaS. The more agents can see themselves thriving in your culture, the more they’ll be open to your offer.And the only way agents can see that from the outside is in the content you publish. So here are a few Action Steps…Spotlight agents from a range of demographicsSpotlight different sizes of wins - small and largeSpotlight the emotional rewards - the thrill of victory, not just the numbers or the factsA bonus takeaway was this nugget from John on podcast pitches he gets…Want to Get on More Podcasts? Stop Asking & Start Supporting Their Work.“The best way to never be on my podcast is to ask. Instead, what I like and appreciate is when someone says, ‘Hey, I liked your episode about the….’ What I really think is if people want to win, go and support the people that you want to be around."If you want to get in front of podcast and YouTube audiences, or even Facebook Group communities, the landscape has completely shifted. Even the smallest podcaster gets bombarded by pitch emails.You can’t spin up an outreach program and blast out ‘compliment emails.’ Authentic compliments can’t be systematized and scaled up.Today, getting access to niche audiences is all about relationships, warm intros, and…genuinely seeking to serve those audiences and their leaders.Want to go deeper? Click on the audio file for the full chat, or search Real Estate Thought Leaders on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. I had a hard time condensing this down to just a few non-obvious insights. There were a lot of great nuggets John has picked up in all his conversations with agents!Or Hit Reply and tell me what you’re seeing about agent’s motivators.Steal This:What podcaster or YouTube creator would you genuinely promote for no other reason than you like what they’re doing? Go post about them on social, or share some of their content with your email list. Here’s the key…do it with ZERO expectation.Quick Links & ResourcesReal Estate Survival Guide - John’s podcast and membership siteConnect with John on Facebook or InstagramMassive thanks to John for sharing all his insights! He talks to so many Gen Z agents that I really enjoyed getting that perspective. Make sure to connect with John on Facebook, and share his podcast with agents in your world who might enjoy it! -MattAgency Founder & Author of MicroFamousPS When you’re ready, here’s one way we can help…Done-for-You Content Service - From Michael Maher and Lars Hedenborg to Jeff Cohn and Marki Lemons-Ryhal, we’ve been the content team behind many of your fellow real estate coaches, speakers and authors. We turn conversations into newsletters, videos and podcasts, all with zero hassle. With our system, that content creates real authority, influence and impact for our clients. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit rethoughtleaders.substack.com

The Real AI Opportunity in Real Estate w/Brandon DoyleFor a tech-savvy agent, YouTuber and consultant to tech companies, you’d think Brandon would be “all in” on creating content with AI. Quite the opposite.“AI is great for improving your workflow and saving some time, but if you’re using [AI] for the actual creation, you’re doing it wrong. You’re just creating garbage and noise and in the long run, it’s going to hurt you more than it helps.”There’s some excitement around AI voice agents for calling leads. But some are saying they’d probably only use it for dead leads.So if the big opportunity in AI isn’t in revolutionizing how we market and sell, what IS the big opportunity?Let’s get to the…Non-Obvious Insights from our Conversation:Solve Boring ProblemsI think the biggest problem in real estate is actually duplication of entry and…adoption... A lot of times with [tech] tools, people get frustrated because they…go in and do something and they’re just checking a box of something they already did.” - Brandon DoyleData entry. That’s a really boring problem. But if AI can solve it, it makes adoption easier and opens the door for new tools to emerge. And making adoption easier is critical because…Agent Churn Can Break Your Entire Business Model.“They [tech companies] don’t factor their churn rate…I’ve seen companies where the client acquisition cost is higher than the lifetime value of the client. And they don’t even understand what their lifetime value is because…it’s two different buckets for them. They’ve got marketing, sales and then client success all operating separately.”Think this only applies to tech companies?I’ve seen this same issue with coaching and memberships. When all the focus is on getting new agents in, it’s easy to forget about churn.Whatever estimates you have of lifetime value per agent, it’s probably good to cut them in half. Maybe more.This is why so many tech companies, and even some coaches, prefer to sell to big brands and indie brokers.“I mean, selling [tech tools] direct to agent is just a terrible, terrible business model. They expect the world and they don’t want to pay you for it. And they’re just going to quit. The average agent won’t even go 90 days.”So how do we deal with churn?Price Out the Problem Agents. “Price accordingly. Just price some of these people out of the market through exclusivity. Curaytor, when they first came on the scene, was a good example. It was like, ‘Well, we’re so exclusive, we only work with whatever number of people,’ and then [agents] kind of self- select.”In other words, start by selling to agents who are ambitious, advanced and affluent.Establish your market there, build something awesome, get profitable. Then you can move downmarket and offer a limited or mass-market version.The side benefit is that working with the ambitious and already successful raises your game. You end up creating a better solution to the problem to meet their high expectations.Want to go deeper? Click on the audio file for the full chat, or search Real Estate Thought Leaders on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.Or Hit Reply and tell me what you’re seeing…especially when it comes to agent churn in areas like coaching or memberships.Ask This:What are the early WINS you can get agents after they take your offer?What can you systematize?What can you make easier and seamless?The better answers you have to those questions, the less churn you’ll have in your offers.Quick Links & ResourcesBrandon’s websiteBrandon’s booksBrandon’s YouTube channel - for smart home tech and home toursConnect with Brandon on Facebook and InstagramBrandon was up for a free-range conversation, and we definitely had that! So make sure to listen to the full conversation, connect with Brandon on social, and keep him mind for speaking gigs or consulting for tech companies.Talk soon,-MattAgency Founder & Author of MicroFamousPS When you’re ready, here’s one way we can help…Done-for-You Content Service - From Michael Maher and Lars Hedenborg to Jeff Cohn and Marki Lemons-Ryhal, we’ve been the content team behind many of your fellow real estate coaches, speakers and authors.We turn conversations into newsletters, videos and podcasts, all with zero hassle. With our system, that content creates real authority, influence and impact for our clients. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit rethoughtleaders.substack.com

Do what other leaders won’t do. That’s where the big opportunities live.That’s what I took away from the chat with Marki. Well, that and my cheeks hurt from smiling and laughing.You might know Marki from…* her years of pro speaking on AI and social selling* her podcast and membership* Hosting the NAR Drive podcastIf so, you also know she’s going to be 100% herself, in any situation.So she didn’t hold back on where the industry is missing it, and how that creates niche opportunities to build a loyal audience of agents.Non-Obvious Insights from our Conversation:Most leaders are missing agents’ REAL problems.“You need to be where they are…And you have to talk about the pain. Probably where people are missing the mark is they’re storytelling and the true pain is off. I understand our pain. I’ve lived this pain…” - Marki Lemons RyhalFrom menopause and dental work to the 2x strength lenses in her glasses, Marki is not shy about sharing. Which creates a completely different level of connection and loyalty with her audience.“We are an industry of people who lack medical insurance, but we’re also an industry….of over 60% women with the #1 age bracket being 50-55 years of age…You want to know why the women love me? Because I’m talking ‘all day’ problems.” -When big-name leaders and brands don’t speak to the everyday problems agents face, it creates a huge opportunity for independent coaches, authors and speakers. If you can be radically authentic without oversight, push that advantage to the limit.Most leaders are ignoring differences in abilities and learning styles.“We’re not addressing in real estate, What percentage [of agents] are neurodivergent learners? ADHD, dyslexia, different learning styles? They might have been labeled as being difficult or people don’t want to work with them because how they learn is totally different.”It makes sense that real estate might be over-represented with neurodivergent learners, ADHD and dyslexia, compared to the general workforce. Real estate is flexible and anyone can learn at their own pace. There’s no boss looking over our shoulder.But as of now, very few leaders are speaking to these agents directly, or repurposing content for their needs. Another niche opportunity waiting for the right leader to step in and serve.Leaders aren’t teaching agents how to “Pull Back the Bow”That’s the grind work of building new skills, new systems or learning new tools. (credit my friend Hank Avink for that term).Marki faced it this past fall, grinding through the scholarship application process for her college-bound son. She even built a whole AI system to get through it faster and submit more applications. The result? Over $1 MILLION in merit-based scholarships.Ok, so that’s the grind…the pulling back the bow. But who wants to hear about that?The opportunity is in being honest about the grind. Honesty gets you loyalty.What do agents need to DO to really benefit from your offer?Where do they need to “pull back the bow?”Because if you’re not honest about that, even when agents buy, most of them won’t implement. So they get no benefit, and you get no testimonials, case studies, word of mouth or loyalty.So how do you sell agents on the grind of new tools, skills and systems?Help them see the backend payoff…clearly enough…that they’ll sacrifice short-term revenue to get it.Want to go deeper? Click on the audio file for the full chat, or search Real Estate Thought Leaders on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.Ask This:What pain are you talking about….that other leaders or brands won’t touch? Not business pain...life pain.Quick Links & ResourcesMarki’s websiteMarki’s podcastMarki’s Speaker Page - a killer page from a veteran speaker, worth checking out if you want more speaking gigs.Marki’s FacebookI love talking to Marki, she’s been in my life as a client and friend for many years now, and she never fails to bring incredible energy wherever she goes.Watch out for her on the speaking circuit, and send her a referral to any local or state association who’s looking for a speaker!-MattAgency Founder & Author of MicroFamousPS If you’re winning the game in business and life, and now you want to make an IMPACT on agents, check out our agency, MicroFamous. We’re the content strategy and production team behind many of your fellow real estate leaders, coaches, speakers and authors. And if you’re driven to make an impact, we want to help. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit rethoughtleaders.substack.com

Levi and his partner have built 2 YouTube channels with a combined 60k subs. So when he says newer YouTubers have the advantage…that they’re building audiences even faster…that catches my attention.What are they doing differently, and what are they incorporating into their own growth strategy?Let’s get into it.Start With a High Performing Format.“Look outside of your market. I did a video….based off of the idea of Mr. Beast’s video…even Mr. Beast is like looking outside of his market... He didn’t find that inspiration from another YouTuber. He found it from Netflix.”“Young guns, like 20s and 30s... They’re able to look at [YouTube], and they understand it. They’re saying, ‘Okay, I’m just gonna look at all the best performing videos’..And then they just recreate those. And you’re seeing new creators get traction pretty quickly.” - LeviA high performing format is a proven attention hack. A glitch in the matrix. Something about that format speaks to people on a primal level. Using a high performing format instantly raises your potential growth.Example: 3 of the top 8 videos on the coaching channel play on the same title format.Here’s another funny example of videos I’ve seen in my feed in the last month or so…Notice the bottom 2 have MILLIONS of views. They’re also 2-3 years old. In other words, this thumbnail is such a powerful visual format that it’s STILL working today.But there’s a mindset challenge here. Many of us are in real estate because we have an independent streak. We’re driven to be original, but YouTube doesn’t reward originality. YouTube rewards what works.Put Most of Your ENERGY into Customizing the Format.YouTube formats are like vehicles…and ideas are the fuel.Powerful ideas are like replacing unleaded with racing fuel.Once he has the format, Levi goes looking for ways to tweak it for his audience.Drawing topic ideas from everywhere…random chats at events, being out in his community, news, social media.However, he also gave a word of caution...“Make sure you stay in alignment with what you cover and what you talk about. You don’t want to just go right off into left field.”Instead, look for ways to pair the high performing format with a high performing topic.Something your audience is already interested in. A topic that speaks deeply and specifically to them. Their needs, desires and values. Their phrasing, emotion and nuance.For a creator like Kallaway, this speaks deeply to his audience. He was also smart about putting Hormozi in the upper right of the thumbnail. Capitalizing on Hormozi’s $100M launch.Use AI to Accelerate the Research & Scripting“Within three minutes, you can have a whole video script. And before, that would probably take me 30-45 minutes alone, just to piece all that together. And that was…just trying to get the bullet points!”Brainstorm with your favorite AI tool. Use it to create unique hooks and angles, question your biases and assumptions, press you to sharpen your ideas.Then have AI write the first draft script. Once you tweak the script for yourself, load it back into AI. Have the AI analyze the final version and draw lessons it can apply to future scripts, or spit out a full custom prompt for your next script.The goal here is to create a script and outline that blends the high performing format with a powerful idea for your niche. All in a way that allows you to speak in your authentic voice.Let’s sum up…Attention Hacking on YouTube* Start with a high-performing format from another niche* Find a powerful idea that speaks to your niche - invest as much energy as it takes* Use AI tools to speed up research and scriptingWant to go deeper? Click above to listen to the full chat with Levi, or search Real Estate Thought Leaders on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.Or Hit Reply and tell me what you’re seeingAny YouTuber creators you’d like me to interview, I’m all ears as well.Steal This:ChannelStudio.ai - Levi and Travis’ go-to tool for YouTube analytics and insights.Quick Links & ResourcesPassive Prospecting YouTube Channel - Levi and Travis’ coaching channelPassiveProspecting.com - Home for all Levi and Travis’ coaching and servicesLiving in Dallas - The channel that started it allLevi on InstagramMassive shoutout to Levi, what he and Travis have done is super impressive. Make sure you’re connected with Levi and connect him to any podcasts or YouTube shows that might want to feature him as a guest!-MattAgency Founder & Author of MicroFamousPS Here are two ways I can help…90-Day Strategy Sprint - We’ll work together to make the critical decisions on your marketing and content strategy. Then we’ll translate those decisions into systems.Done-for-You Content Service - From Michael Maher and Lars Hedenborg to Jeff Cohn and Marki Lemons-Ryhal, we’ve been the content team behind many of your fellow real estate coaches, speakers and authors. We turn conversations into newsletters, podcasts and videos, all with zero hassle. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit rethoughtleaders.substack.com

Scott Richard isn’t selling AI like the rest of the industry. The broker-turned-tech-founder is allergic to hype.And after scratching his own itch, he’s built tools that are so useful, agents and brokers sell themselves.Scott’s playbook is all about authenticity, live demos, and getting insanely specific about who he’s talking to. Here’s how he’s actually getting agents’ attention in a market where everyone’s been pitched to death.Stop Trying to Convince Agents of Anything.Let your tool do the talking…and literally, the showing.Scott’s AI tool came from solving his own brokerage headaches, not from some mastermind funnel. So he ditches the sales pitch and offers a screenshare.“I just say, Let me show you. And I turn it on and let them test it, and they’re blown away... I’m not trying to sell you something. I’m actually trying to help the industry. And that’s a totally different approach to how this came about.Live screen-sharing demos…Raw, unscripted, no pitch deck…That’s how Scott gets people to lean forward.It makes agents and brokers feel like Scott isn’t selling them at all.He’s just sitting on the same side of the table, showing them what he’s built.And because value is so obvious, the sales process is basically: “Here’s the next step if you want it.”Your Content Isn’t Specific Enough for the AI Era.“People don’t quite realize...the amount of content that’s gonna get put out....From a real estate business standpoint, I’m [thinking], Okay, how do I USE it?How do I adopt it without losing the authenticity of the message? And I think the difference is using the tools to convey a message and be very specific on the message you’re conveying.” -As an example, Scott is baking personalization into his AI tool.“I think the future of where this is going…tools that can answer at your level. So when [users] ask a question, [AI tool] gives an answer at their level and it aligns to them.”His tool isn’t just “AI for real estate.” His AI tool answers compliance and business questions in the voice the user needs to hear:* For brand new agents, it “talks like a coach,” giving encouragement and clear action steps.* For managing brokers, it “talks like a risk consultant,” focusing on liability and policy.When AI can personalize to this degree, agents’ expectations are going to skyrocket. Generic marketing won’t cut it. The era of “just flood the zone with content” might be over.Apply Emerging Tech to Problems You Understand DEEPLY.Scott’s blueprint:* Relentless specificity in content, audience, and demos.* Relentless focus on the actual problem he solved for himself as a broker.When you ARE the target market, you know when you’ve built something truly useful.So useful that your sales process can basically be, “Here, let me show you…”Want to go deeper?Click to listen to the full conversation with Scott.Or search Real Estate Thought Leaders on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.Ask This:Where can I replace “Here’s why you should buy...” with “Here, let me show you?”Who am I actually talking to…and does my content speak to their level?Quick Links & ResourcesScott Richard’s website:AI-Powered Real EstateBig shoutout to Scott for sharing what he’s doing! I love the raw, authentic approach to sales, and the relentless drive to build something truly useful…not just profitable for himself. Make sure you connect with Scott if you’re not already!-MattAgency Founder & Author of MicroFamousPS Here are two ways I can serve you…90-Day Strategy Sprint - We’ll work together to make the critical decisions on your marketing and content strategy. Then we’ll translate those decisions into new rituals and habits, and get your entire team on board.Done-for-You Content Service - From Michael Maher and Lars Hedenborg to Jeff Cohn and Marki Lemons-Ryhal, my content team has served many of your fellow real estate leaders. We turn conversations into newsletters, podcasts and videos, all with zero hassle. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit rethoughtleaders.substack.com

Ray Wood has been around long enough to know what works with agents, and what doesn’t.The Aussie-Canadian direct response veteran behind AI Ad Machine has used every outreach tactic in the book. Cold calls, one-on-one calls, high-end sales presentations.But he’s finding that sometimes, agents want less personal attention.Here’s what Ray’s learned about reaching agents in 2025, plus the testing strategy that’s letting him run 100+ ad variations simultaneously.Here are the Non-Obvious Insights from our Conversation…Group-First, Low-Pressure Offers are Beating 1:1 Calls Right Now.“I reach out [to agents] and say, ‘Hey I’m doing this and this, why don’t we jump on a call?’ ...May or may not get a response. If I say I’m doing a free training...I get much more buy-in.”It’s high-leverage, maximized opt-ins, and he can qualify leads by engagement. Reminds me of how Josh Smith’s virtual workshops are performing well for him this year.Experiment with Newsletter Platforms to Get More Results from Your Email List.“So what I’ve done is I’ve created some content and then built a link, which has got a [Substack] subscribe button and I’ve sent that out to my list. I think in two weeks, I’ve had a couple of hundred people opt-in from a 28K email list. For normal day-to-day, I’m using Kajabi. I’m familiar with it and that’s where all my contacts are. So that’s what works for me.” - Ray WoodStill early days, but I love that he’s testing this. Newsletter tools like Substack or BeeHiiv tend to have better deliverability over tools like Kajabi. Any tool that caters to the info marketing or course creator niche will have above-average unsubscribe rates, which hurts deliverability for all their users.Ruthless A/B Testing Beats Intuition Every TimeRay’s tool runs 40-100 different ads simultaneously and kills the losers within 10 days.“With the Ad Machine, I can run a set of 40, 50, 100 different ads. And after 10 days, I can monitor which image is working, which copy’s working, which headlines working... and then I can continually focus on that”.It’s a good lesson for any leader…Never fall in love with your own messaging ideas or clever copy.It’s better to create 100 imperfect campaigns and let agents tell you which ones work. Double down on what works, and ruthlessly cut the rest.So let’s sump up the core principles I take from Ray’s playbook:* Test everything, assume nothing - Run multiple variations simultaneously and let data decide* Lower the barrier, raise the value - Group trainings feel safer than sales calls while delivering the same qualification* Own your audience - Build on platforms where you control the relationshipWant to go deeper?Click to listen to the full conversation with Ray Wood. Or search Real Estate Thought Leaders on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.Hit Reply and tell me what you’re seeingWhat’s working for tech founders and innovators to reach agents?Where could they sharpen their messaging and get more effective?Ask This:When was the last time I tested my assumptions about my audience?What simple test could I run that would generate useful, non-obvious insights to improve my marketing?Quick Links & ResourcesRay Wood’s AI Ad MachineThanks so much to Ray for opening up his marketing playbook. Make sure you reach out and connect with him, nothing beats his Aussie positivity and direct response mentality!-MattAgency Founder & Author of MicroFamousPS Here are two ways I can serve you…90-Day Strategy Sprint - We’ll work together to make the critical decisions on your marketing and content strategy. Then we’ll translate those decisions into new rituals and habits, and get your entire team on board.Done-for-You Content Service - From Michael Maher and Lars Hedenborg to Jeff Cohn and Marki Lemons-Ryhal, my content team has served many of your fellow real estate leaders. We turn conversations into newsletters, podcasts and videos, all with zero hassle. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit rethoughtleaders.substack.com

Facing critical decisions on your marketing and content strategy? Click below to learn about working with me in a 90-Day Strategy Sprint.Mike’s a self-admitted data guy. Not a sales or marketing guy.But he did 3 really smart things.And he ended up building a category king business and getting acquired by HousingWire.Here are the…Non-Obvious Insights from our Conversation:Behavior Signals Mindset.“Those are our customers, you know, they’re investing in their business. They’re paying for a CRM, they’re buying digital ads, they’re farming. If they’re investing in their business, then they understand the power of using market data in that communication to grow the business. That was really the key distinguishing characteristic we noticed” - Mike SimonsenThe big challenge to growing Altos was that agents care more about leads and clients than data.Like any tech founder, Mike was super excited about his product. But he learned pretty fast that his market wasn’t “every agent.” Only agents who had the mindset to invest in their business could see the value prop.Which led to the next challenge. He couldn’t buy a list of “agents who have the mindset to invest in their business.”Mike’s breakthrough was that behavior signals mindset.Agents who showed up to tech conferences and camps were serious about their business, and open to new technology and tools. By showing up in those places, Mike put Altos in front of a hyper-targeted group of A-list prospects.But at some point Mike had to break out of those early adopters. Which meant the challenge shifted back to reaching the average agent or broker. That’s where Mike hit on something I really want to emphasize.Reframes Unlock Sales.“We had to learn how to be top of funnel lead systems and lead nurture over time... And I’m a data software guy…now all of a sudden I’m talking about lead conversion.Mike reframed data as a new competitive advantage…in agent’s marketing and in their listing presentation. Just by subscribing, any agent could be the “local expert” to their sphere, no number crunching required.Taking an offer that isn’t naturally top-of-funnel and MAKING it top-of-funnel is impressive. It’s a very powerful reframe.Has it been overused since then by everyone who sells to agents?Of course. Because it works.“Even if you ask people like, why do they buy Altos today? They’ll probably say, ‘We love the data,’ but what do they need to do with their business? Yeah. They need to grow their business.. They need to get leads in the door. They need to nurture those into clients. And so you’ve got to connect that from A to B.”There are reasons people say they buy, and the reasons they actually buy.The right reframe hits at the actual reasons people buy, which is why it unlocks new levels of sales.The Right Reframe Forces You to Raise Your Game.“You know, we had to build things that were [new]. You got to email the reports out automatically. You’ve got to track the followup. We had to build all of those things.”There’s an interesting trap Mike could have fallen into.The reframe is brilliant. Agents agree with the reframe. Sales picks up. And then…the product doesn’t deliver, and agents cancel.Mike didn’t fall into that trap. He improved the product to match the reframe.Reframes Change Lives.Just look at books. Some of the most impactful business books are built on reframes.* Millionaire Real Estate Agent - “You don’t have to sell homes forever. You can exit production…and we have the model to follow.”* 80/20 Principle - “Most things aren’t important. Focus on the “vital few” and you’ll get 10x results with far less effort.”* Profit First - “You don’t need to change, you need a different system around you. So you can be yourself and still hit your financial goals.”Profit First is one of the most powerful reframes I’ve ever come across. If you haven’t picked it up in a while, go read the first couple chapters. Absolute genius.Here’s the thing about a great reframe…Once people hear it, they can never un-hear it.Especially if you have proof to back it up.If I were advising a leader or company bringing a brand new concept to real estate agents, I’d be asking myself “Where’s the reframe?”Agents have lots of problems. They know they have those problems. They’re bombarded with ads and offers to solve those problems.And yet agents allow many of those problems to go on for years, even decades. With little or no effort to solve them.Unless you get agents to see their problem in a new way…don’t expect them to understand your new concept or buy immediately.When I first worked with Jeff Cohn on the Team Building Podcast and Elite Real Estate Systems, we had to attack the idea that successful teams only worked in huge cities like Dallas or Atlanta.We created this reframe: “You can build a dominant real estate team in virtually ANY market in the country. We did it in Omaha, NE and we’ll share all our systems with you.”Once we’d established that, we attacked other common objections with this reframe: “You can build a real estate team that nets you $1 million a year and runs without your personal production or relying on rockstar agents.”Jeff didn’t just throw content out there. He published hyper-specific content…built around highly targeted reframes. And that content generated demand for Jeff’s systems and created millions in coaching revenue.Side note…PLACE is a new concept. What determines whether it will work?Their ability to sell the idea of “home ownership experience.”A new category that wraps up many different services.Services where consumers already have specialized categories in their mind.That’s going to take a powerful reframe.Facing critical decisions on your marketing and content strategy? Click below to learn about working with me in a 90-Day Strategy Sprint.To go deeper with Mike Simonsen: Click on the audio file above to listen to the full chat, or search Real Estate Thought Leaders on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.Mike also shares the hilarious story of how he made one of his first sales, and how he overcame his ego to jump on YouTube.Ask This:When you describe the problem you solve…to an ideal prospect…are they startled? Shocked, even? Do they leave that conversation forever changed?Quick Links & ResourcesFollow Mike on X (Twitter)Altos ResearchRecommended Books for Ideas on Reframing:Play Bigger22 Immutable Laws of MarketingPositioningMike was such a good sport to say Yes to an interview. We’d never been introduced and he was super open and generous. Make sure to follow him on X to see what he’s up to since the acquisition of Altos. I know he’s got something exciting to share when the time is right!Talk soon,-MattCEO & Author - MicroFamousPS Here are two ways I can serve you…90-Day Strategy Sprint - We’ll work together to make the critical decisions on your marketing and content strategy. Then we’ll translate those decisions into new rituals and habits, and get your entire team on board.Done-for-You Content Service - From Michael Maher and Lars Hedenborg to Jeff Cohn and Marki Lemons-Ryhal, my content team has served many of your fellow real estate leaders. We turn conversations into newsletters, podcasts and videos, all with zero hassle. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit rethoughtleaders.substack.com

This platform is about the non-obvious, the subversive, the counterintuitive stuff.That’s where Jess really stands out.We’re talking…* screenshotting troll comments and sharing them openly* posting on IG for years without selling anything* breaking the model of “accountability” coachingShe also runs ListingsLab from a small Caribbean island.Is she the Bond villain of real estate coaching?Too generous and fun to be a villain…But she just might be the next model of real estate coaching.She sells systems and permission. Not butt-kicking accountability.She’s raw, irreverent, and unapologetic.In everything from her content to coaching.All underpinned by deep thinking and unorthodox strategy.Let’s get into it...Non-Obvious Insights from our Conversation:Buy a Dinosaur Puppet. Talk to the Puppet.“The opposite of love online isn’t hate, it’s indifference…So I’m not trying to be clickbaity. I’m not trying to rage bait or anything like that. I’m just constantly forming my own opinions about why we do the things that we do, backed up with data.”Ok so the dinosaur puppet…Jess bought it specifically to “conversate with on my Instagram in terms of dinosaur real estate agents.”With almost 90k followers, she knows it will rub some people the wrong way, but that’s the point. By creating a strategic enemy…and quickly alienating agents who don’t like her style…Jess magnetically attracts those who will.This is where many leaders will miss the boat on “authenticity.”It’s not about using more slang in your marketing copy, or sharing your hobbies or interests on Insta. Sure, that’s better than stodgy corporate content.But the next model of coaching pushes that much further.Be so radically authentic that you quickly and gladly alienate the wrong agents.To the right agents, that’s magnetic.Turn Internet Trolls into Permission Content.“Cold traffic is a nasty place on the internet, right? But I think the comments are hilarious. So I do my version of Mean Tweets... I screenshot all of them. I send them to my friends…There’s an element of permission [agents] are looking for. We’re all getting trolled... If I’m really transparent about it and we can have a laugh over it…maybe it’s not such a big deal.”If you’ve ever coached agents on creating content…you know the frustration.But what if every missed deadline, every unposted video, are just outer signs of an inner fear of being visible?Traditional “butt-kicking accountability” coaching doesn’t have a great solution for that.By showing that Jess doesn’t care about trolling comments, she gives agents permission to not care, either. Even to share their troll comments and laugh together.That’s a very different approach.Show Up & Serve…Long Before You Ask for the Sale.“Now I have this untapped audience on Instagram that I’m starting to pull business from. And I’m finding that... because I haven’t sold so heavily to them, they’re a lot more open to being sold to at this point.“While selling heavily on other platforms, Jess showed up on Instagram for years. No pitching, just being herself and sharing content.I would tell any leader to do the same…with one caveat.You need the right kind of offer.Leaders are telling me they’re hearing lots of exhaustion, hesitation and self-doubt. Agents have seen so much fake urgency, artificial scarcity, and exaggerated promises. They’re doubting everyone, even themselves and their own decision making.So whether the offer is implementation, customization, or just more access…Agents need a plausible, structural reason to believe your offer is 10x more valuable than the content you give away. That value must be baked into the structure of the offer itself.Want Attention? Stop Watering Yourself Down.When asked what topics were getting her traction with agents…“Just say the things you’re afraid to say... say the things that you think, and then you vanilla down before you spit them out.”I’ve asked many leaders that question. No one gave an answer quite so blunt and insightful.It’s not easy to cut through the noise online. I talked about that in MicroFamous, which came out 5 years ago.My solution was to use content to deliver an idea so compelling, so startling, so arresting and attention-grabbing, that once prospects encounter it, they can never unhear it. They must learn more. And I still believe that’s the best approach for MY kind of clients.Jess is running her own version of that playbook.Sharing bold and polarizing opinions…formed from deep thinking and daily coaching…delivered in her unique style.The Next Model of Real Estate CoachBased on my conversations with Jess and others who fit the same model, they…* Stay raw, authentic and unapologetic…even in the face of online trolls* Turn off agents they don’t want to coach…gladly and immediately* Show up and serve agents…long before asking for the sale* Take a strong stand…often calling out a “strategic enemy”* Say the things they really believe in…even when it’s risky* Give permission…not just butt-kicking accountabilityAt the very least, it’s a great example of the kind of marketing that’s working right now.But I’d be OK if that becomes the dominant model of real estate coach.Want to go deeper? Click on the audio file above for the full chat, or search Real Estate Thought Leaders on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.Hit Reply and tell me what you’re seeing.Know another coach who fits this model? I’d love to talk to them.Steal This:Find something that you stand against.Could be a person, a group of people, even an idea.Go on Amazon, and buy a puppet or plush toy that represents it.It’s a light-hearted exercise to find your strategic enemy.You might even use it in your content!Quick Links & ResourcesListingsLabJess’ story (powerful)Connect with Jess on InstaThere’s more in the conversation I didn’t have room for, including Jess’ plans for her new AI product (in launch at time of recording). So check out the full audio, and make sure you’re connected to Jess on Instagram if you’re not already!Talk soon,-MattAgency Founder & Author of MicroFamousPS Want to reach your best prospects with mastermind-style content like this?Click here to check out our Done-for-You Content service. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit rethoughtleaders.substack.com

This week shares some tactics you can test in the next 30 days with zero change of strategy.The inspiration is a chat with DJ Paris about how he’s using Keeping It Real to reach and attract agents to the Chicago-based brokerage he serves.Now let’s get into the tactics…Video SMS for Cold Outreach“I now do video SMS... I think it’s actually less invasive than a text message... they can visually see that I have this set up. They may know that I have a podcast…And here I am reaching out to them individually.“ DJ ParisSending video texts with his podcast branding behind him is a nice twist, especially when you have a show getting hundreds of thousands of downloads a year. And he’s not the only leader who’s mentioned using video texts for recruiting with good success so far.DJ found the same thing my co-host did when recruiting off our show, Real Estate Uncensored years ago. Content creates some inbound leads, but outbound outreach can 10x your results.YouTube Videos Optimized for TV, not Mobile“For the last 3-4 years, I‘ve always been proud of the fact that 33% of our traffic came from TV…In the last year alone, that number has jumped to 66%. And now based on all the recent data, YouTube is the number one streaming app on TV. It’s beating out Netflix and it’s got the most watch time over Netflix as well.” - Levi Lascak, real estate YouTuber, trainer & author of Passive ProspectingHe’s not the only leader who’s mentioned they’re shifting how they create YouTube content, starting with YouTube TV-viewing as the main priority over mobile. That’s a massive shift in consumption habits in just the last couple years. But it tracks with my personal experience, too. YouTube is often the first app I pull up on a TV.Virtual Workshops & Virtual Live Events“I still like live webinars, live workshops cause I can reach such a bigger audience. And it’s so hard to get 200, 300 people in a room now anymore. But it’s very easy for me to drive 300-400 people….we just did a four-hour virtual workshop called the Remote Agent Blueprint. We had 82 [people] stay to the END.” Joshua Smith, GSD ModeIf we see a backlash against polished content thanks to AI tools, I could see live workshops and events getting popular again. They may be one of the few ways to learn who is actually a legit thought leader.Custom Shorts & Reels over AI Clipping Tools & Repurposing“We’re repurposing less. We’re hyper focused on our niche(s). We’re most focused on what we do well and others can’t or won’t do…than winning on every battlefield. - Todd Tramonte, host of Commissioned“I’m also using those crappy AI clippers... probably shouldn’t, but I do. And I try to post really good short form content that’s original….I write a script. I don’t use AI. I use CapCut to edit it, takes 10 seconds…it’s not as cool as I’d like it to look, but it’s me.” - DJ Paris“In the beginning of the podcast, we’d just hop on video to quickly announce the new episode. Those clips didn’t perform well, very few views or interactions. But once we started making them fun and entertaining, engagement followed. Reels and stories that included movement, laughter, silliness, or storytelling consistently got much better results. We also don’t mind this, because we enjoy making them! - Katy Caldwell, co-host of Hustle HumblyPulling short-form content out of long-form feels super easy with AI tools. But it will never beat 100% custom content. I love DJ’s tactic of writing, recording and editing all in one go for simplicity and focus on execution.For podcasters and YouTubers, I haven’t found anyone who claims to have short-form content figured out. Diary of a CEO is the only one that caught my eye. BUT…they are 100% custom, painstakingly hand-edited. 10X the editing time of an entire podcast episode. We’ve played around with it in our agency, and they’re extremely difficult to produce, and the process is highly subjective. So not something we can build into our done-for-you service (sadly!).Test New Formats…But Stay Super Consistent.“In the beginning of the podcast, we’d just hop on video to quickly announce the new episode. Those clips didn’t perform well, very few views or interactions. But once we started making them fun and entertaining, engagement followed. Reels and stories that included movement, laughter, silliness, or storytelling consistently got much better results. We also don’t mind this, because we enjoy making them!” - Katy Caldwell, co-host of Hustle Humbly“I’ve been really consistent at doing this. And there’s all kinds of things I’m sure I could have done better and different with my podcast. I actually had a friend reach out, he’s building another tech company and [said]. ‘I want to see what you’re up to. I’ve just seen you do this podcast so consistently for so long. It’s just telling of your commitment to things.’ I never thought of it [podcasting] that way…as you actually on display showing the fact that you’re not going anywhere.” - Justin Stoddart, host of Think Bigger Real Estate“I’m going deeper into raw, real, organic, even less edited…The engagement seems better there. People appreciate that more because everything is so highly edited now and polished. So while most people are going deeper to AI, I’m doing the opposite.” Joshua Smith, GSD ModeAny form of content creation that is relentlessly consistent will go through ups and downs. Peaks and valleys in your energy and excitement. The less you sweat the small stuff, the more you can test new tactics and approaches along the way.Mindset Shift: Treat Every Piece of Content Separately.“We had a more strict “post per day” policy system in the beginning that also focused on how the feed aesthetics looked. Now we do not limit ourselves to that and just focus on providing value.” - Katy Caldwell, co-host of Hustle HumblyYou can’t test new formats if you’re worried about how all your content looks together.Audiences rarely see all your content together in one place, anyway. They consume content one video, one post, one newsletter at a time.The Free Press, which is published on Substack, is about to sell for a rumored $200 million to CBS parent company. Substack doesn’t give a ton of flexibility on branding. Free Press built their brand around content and a point of view, not by having all their content look consistent.If you’re an independent expert, leader or creator, without a huge organization, embrace this advantage. Get messy.Worry less about whether a piece of content “elevates your brand” or if everything has a consistent look across platforms.Worry more about whether it speaks deeply and specifically to the right people.If you can do that, you’ll build a loyal audience a lot faster.Want to go deeper? Click on the audio file above to listen to the full chat with DJ Paris, also available on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.Or Hit Reply and tell me what you’re seeingAm I missing any cool tactics from other creators and leaders?Ask This:What would you do differently in your content if you didn’t care how it fit with anything else you’ve done? What would you experiment with that’s TOTALLY authentic to you?Quick Links & ResourcesKeeping it Real Podcast w/DJ ParisThink Bigger Real Estate w/Justin StoddartHustle Humbly Podcast w/Alissa Jenkins & Katy CaldwellCommissioned with Todd TramonteGSD Mode w/Joshua SmithThanks to all of our contributors, DJ, Joshua and Justin who jumped on Zoom (more to come from Justin on his venture ProInsight), and Katy Caldwell and Todd Tramonte who sent in their input by email.If you’re interested in contributing your thoughts and insights, hit Reply!I’ll shoot you the questions we’re asking leaders, insiders and content creators. I want to feature insights from a range of folks beyond those who can jump on Zoom for a full interview.Talk soon,-MattCEO & Author - MicroFamousPS Want to publish mastermind-style content for your best prospects?Click here to check out our Done-for-You Content service This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit rethoughtleaders.substack.com

Mike’s most effective video wasn’t what I expected.But when YouTube comes up in my conversations with leaders, I hear a much bigger, unspoken question.“What does it cost to WIN on YouTube…In time, energy, money…and my SOUL?”That’s what I want to dig into in this edition. So here are the non-obvious insights from the chat with Mike and my analysis.Plan on $100k & 2 years minimum to “prime the system.”“Well for 3 years, I was putting out 2, 3 videos a week. And after 3 years, I had like 1500 subscribers. Nobody knew who I was, not much engagement on my content until the right vehicle aligned with the content. When I joined [eXp], that's when I had 30 agents every 30 days for my first six months. And it just blew up because I primed the system ahead of time.”Priming the system means mastering content creation and building social capital with an audience. That social capital is what you’re drawing on when you make an offer.I’m making a few assumptions that you will…* Take the same amount of time (you’re probably not better than Mike)* Release 300-500 videos total - (2-3/wk for 3 years)* Hire out the creative work (you’re not editing vids at 2am)A little napkin math gets you to 6 figures pretty fast.Think you’ll get a great editor for cheap overseas? Good luck.You’re probably doing what my agency does, hiring freelance pros in North America.So let’s assume $100 per video on editing. That’s on the low end. So that’s $30-50k in video editing costs.At the highest levels, thumbnails require a specialized graphic designer. I’d be ready to spend $200+ per thumbnail (not counting split testing variations). At one point, the agency behind Mel Robbins’ YT channel was charging $1500/mo just for thumbnail design and split testing.If you can hire a great young thumbnail designer for $100 each, consider yourself blessed by the gods. That's another $30-50k for thumbnails.Then we have everything else.Codie Sanchez reportedly dropped $200k on strategy, branding and groundwork for her channel launch.Competing at the highest level is serious business.Either give the audience what they want, or stay invisible.“I did really well in the beginning with [videos about] Instagram, Facebook ads and door knocking. Well, everyone wanted the se.xier topics, Instagram and Facebook ads, not door knocking. So I went down that kind of avenue."To grow a channel from scratch today, you have to throw enough content out there to see what works…and then double down on it.Even if the audience pulls you away from topics you want to cover.YouTube draws a high percentage of beginners overall. Industry turnover creates lots of beginner agents. So if creating beginner-level content feels totally authentic, you're set up pretty well.To compete with the best Youtubers, you’ll have to go beyond that and find the sweet spot where your content speaks to beginners, intermediate and pros.If you can’t find that sweet spot, or beginner-level content feels inauthentic, you’ll have a hard time competing at the highest level on YouTube.Your ego will die a 1,000 deathsFrom the content you put out, or the guests you have on, to the feast-or-famine nature of the algorithm. Every aspect of the journey will kill your ego."So where I see a lot of people on YouTube go wrong is…they all get infatuated by the vanity metrics. I want to feature this major influencer, this person that was on TV or this big coach, all of that stuff……Every person I've featured on my YouTube channel [success stories] is in my revenue share organization, but it goes deeper than that…Those interviews truthfully have been the secret sauce of scaling. It's pretty much a 30-50 minute success case study."Those videos have no big name guests and don’t get the most views. They are simply the most effective videos for hitting his goal of attracting agents.Having a ton of overlap is a nice bonus. The content you love to make…gets big views…and is super effective.But when there isn't a ton of overlap, and you want to compete at the highest level, you’ll be faced with a choice.Lean into what’s most effective…Or what gets the most views?Mike also shared the spotlight, and it paid off in a big way."I said, well, We're all partners on this journey. How can I put out a different message that allows somebody to connect with the [guest] based on who they are?I have people from every age, race, ethnicity, gender, language, personality type, and geographic location. So if you're not interested in me, it's almost impossible to go on my channel and not find somebody you see yourself in."By sharing the spotlight, he gives the audience more options. More people they can connect with. And then he sends viewers to the guest, so they get the sponsorship, even when it dilutes the direct benefit Mike gets.You'll learn a lot about your relationship with ego in those choices.Ultimately, the cost of competing on YouTube at the highest level is obsession.Mike took his engineering background and obsessed over an algorithm built by engineers. He changed his consumption habits and cut relaxation time to spend more time on YouTube. He obsessed over what grabbed attention and what didn’t. If you share that obsession, you’ve got a good head start.Want to go deeper? Click on the audio file above to listen to the full chat, also available on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.Or Hit Reply and tell me what you’re thinking.Are you already on YouTube? Looking at it?Ask This:Where can you share the spotlight?Where can you let your agents, clients or users tell their own story?Quick Links & ResourcesMike’s YouTube ChannelMike’s websiteConnect with Mike on InstaMassive thanks to Mike for sharing what it takes to compete and win on YouTube! Connect with him (if you haven’t already) and if you’re going down the same path, pick apart his channel. You’ll come away with some killer tactics!Talk soon,MattMatt JohnsonCEO & Author - MicroFamousPS Want a platform like this?Click here to check out our Done-for-You Content service This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit rethoughtleaders.substack.com

Here’s a short list of things Jay is NOT doing to promote his book…* speaking all over the country* shouting about how he hit #1 on Amazon* staying up til 2am giving his 10th podcast interview of the dayBut he’s also not coasting on the success of Millionaire Real Estate Agent and The ONE Thing.Jay is playing a different game.Here are the Non-Obvious Insights from our Conversation…Category Killers Own Bookshelves for Decades"I want a long bestselling book in the sense that it's best in category...I call them category killers and I don't think you should write anything else."If an agent asked you what book they should pick up on negotiation, what’s your first thought? Probably “Never Split the Difference” by Chris Voss.That’s the power of a category killer book. Sustainable authority and sales…for decades.Jay says there hasn’t been a category killer book for rookie agents in 20 years.He spotted that market gap while talking to agents on The ONE Thing Podcast. Since then he’s asked 250+ of the most successful agents in the country, “What did you do differently as a new agent?” The book comes directly from that on-the-ground intelligence.That’s why Jay is skipping the Amazon best-seller strategy, and obsessed over creating the best-in-category book that will get organic word of mouth for the next 20 years.Email Outsells Social Media 50 to One for Book Sales"People tend to click in an email and they outsell social for me, 50 to one. And I know so many authors that would [say], ‘Yeah, for every book I sell on social or on YouTube, I sell 50 through my email list.’"Most of us have an email list, however neglected it may be. But are we delivering value…consistently…for months or years…before we show up and ask people to buy our book? Probably not.This is even more of a challenge for aspiring B2B authors who aren’t natural writers (that’s where our service can be helpful).But whether you’re a natural writer or not, we all have the challenge of how to grow our email list…Jay Would Take a Newsletter Swap Over a Podcast Interview"Anne-Laure Le Cunff...did, I think, 10 newsletter swaps, where she said, “I'll write about your book on my newsletter if you write about mine.” And she found that that had a very, very measurable impact on her book launch and getting on the New York Times."Just a few years ago, going on podcasts was the #1 way B2B authors sold more books. They’d kill themselves doing 50 interviews in a month, staying up til 2 or 3am, just to support the launch. Now, Jay is hearing whispers from other authors like “I went on Jay Shetty’s podcast and it moved 2 books.”So he’s turning to email newsletters. If you have an email newsletter for agents and you’re interested in featuring Jay, reply and I’ll connect you.Newsletters not only drive book sales, but they can help grow your email list. You don’t have to rely on people hearing you on a podcast and going to Amazon. You have more control by the type of link you put in the newsletter swap.You can even work out an arrangement with the newsletter publisher to share the list of those who clicked on your book from the email, or send clicks through an email opt-in page.Want to go deeper? Click on the audio file above to listen to the full chat, also available on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.Or Hit Reply and tell me what you’re seeingWhat book launch tactics have caught your eye? Will we see more email newsletters in real estate?Ask This:If I want to write a book in the next few years, what am I doing right now, TODAY, to grow my email list?Quick Links & ResourcesJayPapasan.comRookie Real Estate Agent - Jay’s new bookThe ONE Thing podcastWrite Useful Books - Rob Fitzpatrick - AMAZING book on how to write the category killer that dominates the shelf and word of mouth for decades. From the author of the category killer The MOM Test. And how did I hear about both books? Word of mouth.I always have a great time talking to Jay. It’s surreal sometimes talking to someone who co-wrote a book that changed the course of my life. When I read MREA at 27 years old, it broke my brain. Showed me it was possible to build a business without drowning in the day-to-day operations. I ended up building a marketing agency on that model.So I’m eternally grateful to Jay for nerding out on book launch tactics, if you’re not connected with Jay, fix that immediately!Talk soon,-MattCEO - MicroFamousAuthor - MicroFamousPS Want a platform like this?Click here to check out our Done-for-You Content service This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit rethoughtleaders.substack.com

Lars had a massive ad budget, a “closer” team, all the tech tools to max out ROAS.Still couldn’t get the conversion numbers he wanted.So he started taking sales calls with agents again.Over 150 this year.And what is he hearing from agents? Exhaustion.Not because agents are doing the fundamentals and it’s not working.They don’t even want to hear that fundamentals are the answer.So I asked Lars if there’s a sweet spot between what agents want to hear…and what they need to hear from industry leaders?Lars’ hilarious response was, “Oh my Lord…Oh my Lord…”There’s a lot to share from this conversation. Buckle up accordingly.Non-Obvious Insights from the Conversation:2X return on ad spend can be profitable….and still be unsustainable.“There’s no easy way to pivot that model…when you’re spending all this money, it’s creating leads, my setters are setting appointments... Within 48, maybe even 24 hours [of shutting off ads], it’s crickets. So it’s not even really a business.I went HARD into the ads, but then you’re all in the ads…We were at $3200 spend for a $10k offer with $6500 cash collected. So only a 2X return on initial spend... But then you turn it off, and there’s nothing going on.”And when he showed up to the sales calls for the high ticket offer, he found that agents couldn’t afford it.So he partnered with a company that offers financing.HALF the clients used financing on the $10k offer.What’s driving this shift?The number of solid, producing agents may have dropped by HALF from 2023-2024.“You'll ask them, How's business? And they'll just go to those years [2023 and earlier] ‘Well, I went from 25 to 12.’ And how many homes have you closed this year? It's like one or two. And [it was] four months into the year…Last year, 1% of agents sold 25 homes or more, but two years before that it was 2%.”In other words, agents got away with a lack of fundamentals in 2023.Lost momentum in 2024.Hit a wall in 2025.But what’s driving the exhaustion and lack of motivation Lars is hearing from agents?Agents have been burned by 100 “easy button” offers.“We’re just in a trust recession. What someone needs to hear, and what’s going to motivate them to want to follow you or [buy], are two totally different things. And I’m not going to be the guy to master [saying] what they want to hear.I'm not going to pick on the person or even say their name, but there's someone who's a very popular YouTuber in the real estate space that hasn't sold 50 homes in their entire career. I watch their stuff and it's very good, but to me that's inauthentic.”But what about going down the Alex Hormozi path… engineering the living $#*% out of all your content?“I went down that path….and all of a sudden I have two editors, one for short form, one for long form. I did a $24k, 90 day program on how to learn short form. And what am I doing? I blew all that up.Some of my better content is created when I’m in a natural conversation with someone… So I’m recording here on my cell phone and then [we] cut that into stuff. My focus is on what I’m saying when I’m not thinking about what I’m saying.”Can you go down the Alex Hormozi path?Absolutely. And if it’s authentic to you, it may work, BUT…It takes a massive amount of energy to be someone you’re not. Most will start with excitement, then eventually burn out.And neglect the fundamentals that would have worked along the way.Lars is pivoting hard…back to the fundamentals.The organic approach that originally built the business. In his case that’s his Facebook Group and email list.Want to go deeper? Click on the audio file above to listen to the full chat, also available on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. There’s SO much I couldn’t cover in this newsletter!Or Hit Reply and tell me what you’re seeingAre you hearing something different from agents?Are energy levels and motivation picking up coming into the fall?Ask This:Lars is focusing on this question, “How big can I build this business with the bare minimum?”Quick Links & ResourcesGrowthCoachLars.comA huge thank you to Lars for being brutally open and transparent!Hopefully it helps other leaders make better decisions about their marketing.Talk soon,-MattCEO - MicroFamousAuthor - MicroFamousPS Want a platform like this?Click here to check out our Done-for-You Content service. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit rethoughtleaders.substack.com

Reminder: The content is not for agents, this is a mastermind-style newsletter for real estate leaders, insiders and content creators. A place where we can openly discuss the challenges of reaching and engaging agents, building brands and dominating niches. You won’t find this content all over social media, so if it’s valuable, forward it to a friend.This week is a little detour into the world of real estate coaching and AI.But the insights apply to anyone scaling a business around expertise(which is many of my friends and clients).In coaching, there’s a huge bottleneck to scaling.You can’t clone yourself as a coach.Yes, you can hire staff coaches.But the good ones are unicorns because they…* come up from the ranks of clients* spend years steeped in your beliefs and opinions* speak your language naturallyYou can’t scale with unicorns.So Verl made a big bet.He acquired Coach Simple, a coaching business management platform.They’re incorporating AI from the inside out, starting with how they run their sales calls, manage their 75 coaches and ramp up new coaches.Here are Non-Obvious Insights from our Conversation…In-house AI Beats ChatGPT (even Custom GPTs)Verl and the newly acquired team built an in-house ‘coach AI’ trained on their massive library of content. Their AI pulls only from resources in that library, returning better results including links to specific resources."I want a shorter path to develop my coaches to be better, right?... And so we took all of our coaches training for 10 years and we put it into “coach AI”... and so it allows us to have a much faster access to content and information that we don’t want ChatGPT infusing its opinion on. I want it to be pure proven workman principles and content."AI Creates Better Profit Margins in Multiple WaysRamping up newer coaches used to take 2+ years. Not anymore."It’s been game-changing. Our [newer] coaches are coaching at a level of a master coach that’s been with us for eight or nine years because they have access to content and ideas and thoughts that you could only get through experience in the past. Now, we’re getting it through really great prompts."They also use their in-house AI it to increase retention:"So now when a client says, ‘Oh, I think I might want to get out of my contract’... you type that in… it [AI] answers in how we train to it, here’s how you figure out what the real issue is and solve it…the Workman Way”Faster ramp up time for staff coaches + higher average client value = better profit margins.That could have been ripped straight from Jay Abraham or Dan Kennedy’s playbooks. Love it!AI Can Help Replicate Your Best Salespeople"We use AI on our sales calls. We’ll practice something and the sales guys would be setting appointments or doing coaching consultations. The AI listens to it. And if we’re practicing a certain thing and the sales person [doesn’t] do it..we talk about it…at the 10 o’clock huddle…So we’re using AI to monitor what we’re saying and how we’re saying it and then improving our conversion ratios hourly.”Imagine taking the tactics of your best salesperson, training ALL your salespeople to use those tactics, and monitoring them for improvement in real time.AI is taking a process that used to be very messy, time consuming and riddled with human biases, and making it cleaner, faster and data driven.Verl is also doubling down on his AI bet. He’s opening his in-house AI building system to other big experts. This might grow into a separate, sellable venture.Alan Weiss, the famed consulting expert, is working with Verl’s team to create an in-house AI trained on decades of Weiss’s best-selling books, articles and audio/video content. “Alan Intelligence" is up and working and opens up un-GPT’d brilliance to his subscribers.Is all this high risk? Considering Verl went from running a profitable coaching business to acquiring a company for a large chunk of change…essentially becoming a tech founder…I’d call that a high risk bet.But it’s definitely high-reward.If profit margins get bigger, and that allows Workman to outspend the competition for coaching leads, they might have an unassailable moat for the next 5-10 years.I’ll have more to share on how Verl is building his “revenue octopus” in a future edition.Want to go deeper? Click on the audio file above to listen to the AI part of the conversation, also available on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.Or Hit Reply and tell me what you’re seeing or doing with AI.Ask This:If AI made it possible to hire and quickly ramp up a “clone” of yourself, what would you have them do that would 10x your business?Quick Links & ResourcesWorkman Success SystemsVerl’s StoryA big thank you to Verl for being super open and generous with his time and insights! Make sure to connect with him (if you’re not already).And keep an eye out for an upcoming deep dive on AI, pulled from insights across all the conversations I’ve had this year with leaders, CEOs and insiders in real estate.Talk soon!-MattCEO - MicroFamousAuthor - MicroFamousPS Want your own mastermind-style platform like this? Check out our Done-for-You service. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit rethoughtleaders.substack.com

For Tristan, community isn’t a tactic you bolt onto your marketing strategy.Everything starts with community.When you spend more than a decade immersed in building communities, can you blame him?He’s definitely had a lot of time to break down what works.Going from Lab Coat Agents to…* Masterminding community strategy for Follow Up Boss (pre-acquisition)* Consulting with bigger brands on community strategy* Running his own community, A Brilliant TribeCommunities can be inspirational…aspirational…plus you have the lure of getting a free boost from social platforms. Years ago, friends in 2 different niches were each getting 1,000s of new members a month to their Facebook Groups.And yet…community is far easier said than done (more on that below).Here are the Non-Obvious Insights from my conversation with Tristan:Every Marketing Channel is a Separate Community.“People have to count on you showing up the same way routinely so you can build that community. That’s how you build the following. When you start being scattered and you’re like, ‘Well, I can do this… I can do that….’ That’s not the way people start understanding who you are and how you show up.”Communities respond to those who show up consistently…in a way that’s tailored for their preferred channel or platform.There are two components to putting this insight into action.1) Choose a niche and stay ruthlessly focused.Without niching down, you’ll be too scattered in your messaging to build community around your content. Tristan mentioned the early days of Lab Coat Agents, where the group took off specifically because it was niched down to “converting online leads.” Only later did the group evolve to cover more topics.2) Choose your channels with care and intention.The more channels you’re on, the more likely you are to lump them together and bandaid over the problem with content repurposing. On most of those channels, your content feels out of place. So you’ve sabotaged your chance to build real community right out of the gate.Don’t waste money boosting content that isn’t proven organically.“Organic content in different platforms is how you build communities and how you build brands. That’s organic because you put no money behind it. Now, the only time you put money behind it is if it blew up and now you’re like, ‘That’s a good one. Let’s put some money behind it!’ “The larger the organization you lead, the bigger the temptation to roll out marketing campaigns from the top down. Communities reward the opposite. They want to see brands and leaders support the content that gets real engagement. Often that content starts from the bottom and bubbles up. Either from community members, emerging leaders or influencers.That’s a big shift for many of us.Coaches want to coach.Experts want to share expertise.Thought leaders want to teach, train and lead.And then we have brands, who want to talk features and benefits.(head smack)For many, building content around community stretches our brain.Community means:* Facilitating conversations…less teaching or sharing expertise* Giving people freedom…even when say things you don’t agree with* Allowing the messy and imperfectThat helps explain how many communities grow around leaders who don’t have it all figured out yet. They’re moving fast, breaking things, and people come along for the ride.Some leaders even take it a higher level.They give a neglected group of people permission to be who they are, without judgment.They create people an identity they can take pride in…even when everyone else around them disagrees or looks down on them.I’ve seen permission-based content create powerful attraction to the group…and passionate loyalty to the leaders.Communities demand personal growth from the leader.“I’ve realized that the better I get internally as a human and as a leader, the better I can show up for those people that I’m trying to lead. And I didn’t know that. As I’ve gotten better and I work on myself, people actually gravitate more to me.”In other words, all business development IS personal development. That’s one reason I love the entrepreneur space. Our businesses are a direct reflection of us as leaders.We’ve been ingrained so much in “personal brand” marketing, that community often breaks our brains because it’s fundamentally not about us.Building a community, especially to get the growth we envision, we have to set aside our ego and create a space for others to bond with each other.Steal This:Before you dive into community-building, ask yourself a few questions.* Is there a neglected group of people I’m uniquely equipped to speak to, support and serve?* What specific factors make them feel neglected, undervalued and underserved?* Are they seeking out community based on those factors?We don’t get to decide what factors drive people to form communities.Even Apple can only encourage community, they can’t directly cause it to form.So start by asking questions and listening deeply. Connect with Tristan:A Brilliant TribeTristanAhumada.comTristan’s InstagramBig thanks to Tristan, and there’s more in the audio than I could cover here. So go listen to his conversation, it was raw, laid-back and packed with insights.You’ll see some of those insights pop up in future newsletters, too.Talk soon!-MattCEO - MicroFamousAuthor - MicroFamousPS Want a platform like this?Click here to learn about our done-for-you services. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit rethoughtleaders.substack.com

Welcome to Real Estate Thought Leaders!This started with my obsession with one question (more on that below).That obsession led to this platform of newsletter + podcast.Most of the newsletters will be short. 3 non-obvious insights, some analysis from me, and an action step.But every month I’ll write a longer “deep dive” into a specific topic.Today’s newsletter is a deep dive.The question I’ve been obsessed with is “How do we reach and engage agents…What’s making them lean forward and pay attention?”So I talked to a mix of veteran and newer creators. Some were podcasters, YouTubers and often both. Here’s what they had to say, along with my analysis…Authenticity Creates Speed→Speed Creates Relevance.“So I just started getting on a mic, speaking into Zoom or StreamYard or whatever and realized that nobody cared. There was no difference in analytics...In this space, nobody cares if it’s a fancy in-office, three camera set up podcast interview or if it’s via Zoom. They just cared about great content.”So then from there to that discovery, what it allowed me for is speed, right? So now I can create content at such a faster pace, get so much more out there, be much more consistent…”—Joshua Smith, host of GSD ModeLeaders and brands are going to struggle with the shift toward raw, authentic, even “messy” marketing. The hidden advantage of authenticity is that you can be really FAST. That makes tactics like newsjacking and trendjacking a lot more realistic.If we can get over the internal challenges to being messy, raw and authentic in our content, we have a first mover advantage when new trends and topics catch fire.Short-Form Hooks and Visuals Are Now Essential. Even for Podcasts.The expectation for immediacy and visual engagement has bled into long form content like podcasting. Here’s what Dustin Brohm had to say about his mentality while recording his podcast, Massive Agent.“I'm actually incorporating more of those short form attention grabbing tactics into my pod. Better hooks up front, getting right into it and start delivering the stuff.I've been podcasting for seven and a half years now. When I started, I wasn't even recording video. It was just the audio. Now it's slowly progressed to where now I'm almost recording the pod, thinking about what the clips will look like. Try Re-Creation vs Repurposing. “You can take a long-form conversation, pull out the top themes, and then re-create that as a new, tighter piece of content. This lets you restate the hook and deliver value quickly, rather than relying on editing to force a good short [clip] out of a long conversation.”—Matt Bonelli & Garrett Frey, co-founders of LifeAtTenTenthsAlgorithms will always favor content created 100% custom for their platform. That doesn’t mean you have to create everything from scratch. Take some AI shortcuts with instant, searchable transcripts and script-writing. Then create custom short-form content for social platforms that point people back to your long-form content.When We’re Isolated, Our Content Feels Out of TouchIt’s easy to assume we know what agents are thinking and feeling.But there are always new tweaks and nuances. New bits of language they’re using. New skills they’re scrambling to learn. Maybe even skills we assume they had.The more we’re talking to agents, the more we can tailor our hooks in the exact language and emotion needed to get their attention and engagement.“Agents coming into the business who started recently or in the COVID era, they don’t know anything about how to navigate this new market. So that’s what I see coming up…Even things like a home inspection…keeping sellers’ confidence in you for more than a week…They’ve never had to navigate that before…That’s how I built my original real estate muscle. So this feels natural to me.”” —Meredith Fogle, Host of So You Want to be a Real Estate Agent“I live in that world, man. So I'm having conversations with them every single day, always asking, What's your biggest current obstacle?... I don't guess…I go out there because I spend that time with my ideal client.”—Joshua SmithContent Builds Your Brand…Even With Agents Who Don’t Watch or Listen.“Everybody's listening even if they're not listening. What I mean by that is I go into a room [of agents]... and half of them will say ‘I've never heard your show but I've seen all the signs and I've seen the posts.’ And the other half will say ‘I've never been on it live but I listen to it every week.’”—Lance Billingsley, host of The 13% PodcastLance is the VP of Agent Development for Arizona’s fastest growing title company. So he’s talking to agents every day. He’s seeing what big brands have known for years: Likes and comments on social media don’t correlate to sales. This is partly due to “lurkers” … the folks who see posts but don’t engage, then pop up out of nowhere and buy.And there are way more lurkers than those who engage, comment and share.So while you’re working to make better and better content, take heart.There are agents who see you, know you, and respect what you’re doing, without showing up in your analytics. And there’s probably more of them than you think.Links to Full Articles Featuring These CreatorsTurn Overlooked Skills into Killer Content for Agents w/Meredith Moody FogleInside the Podcast Blowing Up in AZ with Lance BillingsleyYour Content Isn’t Fast Enough for Today’s Agents w/Matt Bonelli and Garrett FreyTalking Head Videos are Dead for Reaching Agents w/Dustin BrohmJoshua Smith Says Cut the Production Value of Your Content. Agents Don’t Care.Big THANK YOU to all these creators for pulling back the curtain on the strategy and tactics behind their content creation.If you don’t know one of these names, fix that! Reach out to connect with them.These are the leaders constantly evolving to better reach and engage agents.See you in the next edition,-Matt JohnsonCEO - MicroFamous | Author - MicroFamousPS Want a platform like this for your business?Click here to learn about our done-for-you services. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit rethoughtleaders.substack.com

Here’s an odd benefit of the shifting market…It may have handed you killer topics to engage agents.Using basic real estate skills that come so naturally, you don’t even think about them.That’s what hit me when talking to Meredith Fogle, team leader, author and host of “So You Want to be a Real Estate Agent.”Non-Obvious Insights from our Conversation:The shifting market exposed a huge skills gap“Agents coming into the business who started recently or started in the COVID era, they don’t know anything about how to navigate this new market. So that’s what I see coming up.”The gap is around skills for a more balanced market“Even things like a home inspection…keeping sellers’ confidence in you for more than a week…They’ve never had to navigate that before…That’s how I built my original real estate muscle. So this feels natural to me.”Where there’s confusion, there is opportunity for thought leaders“The way I think about it is kind of three things. One, we are creating soft skills that maybe they didn’t have before. Scripts, objection handlers, reading personality styles, etc. Then there’s the hard technical skills, knowing the contract, knowing the paperwork, how to explain it, how to negotiate. The final piece is mindset. That’s the other thing I work on a lot with people is getting through self-limiting beliefs or feelings of imposter syndrome. I think that’s happening with a lot of agents, especially who started recently in real estate.”Ok, now for some (very) biased commentary from your humble editor:)Before you go creating content on basic skills for agents, here are two things to keep in mind.* Do you sell to beginners and strugglers? If so, make the content they’re looking for first, which is often a silver bullet solution. Then sneak the basics in. I’ve found that in almost every successful edutainment YouTube channel, and Joshua Smith said the same in our conversation.* What if you DON’T sell to beginners and strugglers? Then don’t speak to struggling. Speak to success. Speak to the agents who are creating problems because of their success, not in spite of it. The ones looking for negotiation tips because they just put 3 listings under contract. If I was actively recruiting, that’s who I’d want.Want to go deeper? Click on the audio file above to listen to the full chat, also available on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.Or Hit Reply and tell me what you’re seeingI’m trying to soak up everything I can in marketing and AI and content creation.If I’m missing something, have a bias, or blind spot, call me on it! :)Ask This:What kind of agent does my content speak deeply to…beginners and strugglers, or driven and successful?In a hyper-competitive space like real estate, it can’t be both.Quick Links & ResourcesSo You Want to be a Real Estate Agent podcastMeredith’s Team WebsiteConnect with Meredith on FacebookHUGE thanks to Meredith for pulling back the curtain on her podcast.One interesting tidbit I didn’t mention above is that she added video to her podcast and got great feedback. Yet most of the audience continues to listen in audio form.So yes, adding video to a podcast can be powerful, but we’ve found it can also be done sparingly and get most of the same effect.Talk soon!-MattCEO - MicroFamousAuthor - MicroFamousPS Want a platform like this?Click here to learn about our done-for-you services. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit rethoughtleaders.substack.com

25,000 agents in Phoenix alone. Dominate that market and your podcast is automatically among the top in the country. Same for newsletter or YouTube channel.So that’s what Lance Billingsley is doing. As VP of Agent Development at Navi Title (AZ’s fastest growing title co), he’s out talking to agents every day.He wanted to build a show around the mindset of the top 13% of agents.But he’s starting hyper-local. And it’s working.Non-Obvious Insights from our Conversation:Create “Pick Up Your Head” content“Agents do nothing but keep their heads down. They work with their heads down, they work in their market, they’re stressed about rates, inventory, rules. The good ones pick their heads up every once in a while, look around and go, ‘Oh, that’s what I need to pivot to!” Create content about the 30,000 foot view, throw in the right guest and fast pacing, and you have a winning formula to get agents to pick up their heads.Your best podcast guest might not be the big name“Arizona is such a niche unicorn market that people just want to hear from local people in their market…that they see their signs or they see their names.”Bonus if you can find that local agent who cranks out big numbers without big talk. Tap into the natural mystery and intrigue they’ve built up in your market.Email + Partnerships Move the Needle…Not Social Media AloneLance partnered with WeSERV, the Phoenix-area REALTOR association, to sponsor and promote the podcast, as well as the Arizona School of Real Estate & Business.These kinds of partnerships - title or mortgage company paired with local association - are potential golds mine for all brands involved.The association gets content that’s way more engaging than they could produce on their own. The title/mortgage company gets credibility and reach to every agent in that association. Win win.Want to go deeper? Click on the audio file above to listen to the full chat, also available on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.Or Hit Reply and tell me what you’re seeing in your marketingAre big name guests or partners failing to move the needle for you?There are hidden reasons for that.Steal This:Get hyper-targeted. Create a limited series of content that ONLY appeals to your best prospect.AI enables mass personalization. So agents are about to expect more personalization in the ways brands and leaders market to them. Get ahead of that trend with small experiments to find what grabs attention.Quick Links & Resources13% Podcast on YouTube13% Podcast on AppleNavi TitleConnect with Lance on LinkedInBig THANK YOU to Lance for pulling back the curtain on the strategy and tactics behind his show.If you don’t know him, fix that! Reach out to connect with him.He’s one of the most forward thinking people you’ll meet in the title space.-MattCEO - MicroFamous Author - MicroFamousPS Want a platform like this?Click here to learn about our done-for-you services. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit rethoughtleaders.substack.com

Agents want you to get to the hook immediately.No fluff, no preamble and no promotion before value is given.Not just in Shorts and Reels, I’m seeing that extend to every form of content.This came up in a chat with Matt Bonelli and Garrett Frey, podcasters and founders of Life at Ten Tenths.If you don’t know their names, they’re the guys who walked away from hosting the Ninja Selling podcast…and TONS of downloads…to start their own community (more on that in a future edition).Non-Obvious Insights from our Conversation:You can speed up with editing tools…but not too much“I had to speed up one of our clips… it actually worked..But if you go too far, it feels inauthentic and people disengage. Authenticity is non-negotiable, especially with younger audiences who have zero tolerance for AI-generated or fake-feeling content.” - GarrettAnd where is the point where you’ve sped up too much? Hard to pin down. So if using editing tools to speed up your content isn’t an easy answer, what is?Try Re-Creating rather than Repurposing“You can take a long-form conversation, pull out the top themes, and then re-create that as a new, tighter piece of content. This lets you restate the hook and deliver value quickly, rather than relying on editing to force a good short out of a long conversation.” - Matt BThis also works for taking insights from long videos or podcasts and doing shorter videos or podcasts. I call these “piggyback” episodes, because you’d record the long-form content with a guest, then piggyback by recording a shorter, solo episode. Share the main takeaways from the guest along with your commentary and insights.Whatever you do, get to the hook…FAST“ You almost need to deliver value or prompt a question that will then get people to want to explore the value so that they can actually watch past those first 3 seconds.” - Matt BThis is where almost everyone struggles and where new opportunity lies.* Brands struggle because they want to put their brand front and center.* Tech companies struggle because they want to put their tech front and center.* Many thought leaders struggle because they want to put themselves front and center.So who’s creating zero-fluff content for the next generation of agents?The next generation of thought leaders.The ones with no brand to protect. No tech to sell. No big offer to push.So they can get to the hook faster than you.The question is…what are you going to do about it?___________________________________________Want to go deeper? Click on the audio file above to listen to the full chat, also available on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.Or Hit Reply and tell me what you’re seeingHave you noticed your own content consumption habits change?Has your tolerance dropped for slow-developing content?I know mine has. And I can lose myself in books for hours, so it’s not an attention span issue. It’s one way we’re all responding to a world of abundant content.Steal This:Take one tactic or key “ah moment” from your long form content, and re-create in short form content. Video, written post, whatever you’re comfortable with.But the key is this: Challenge yourself to get to the hook IMMEDIATELY.No fluff, no preamble and no promotion before value is given.Quick Links & ResourcesLife at Ten Tenths community Life at Ten Tenths podcastWe’ll feature more of Matt and Garrett in an upcoming deep dive on community building. I’ve got some incredible insights from Tristan Ahumada and a couple others to share. It will be a beast to write but I’m excited so keep an eye out!Talk soon,-MattCEO - MicroFamous Author - MicroFamousPS Want a platform like this? Click here to learn about our done-for-you services. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit rethoughtleaders.substack.com

Of course, every tactic is dead depending on who you’re listening to.But when it’s coming from Dustin Brohm, who’s in the trenches every day creating content on the Massive Agent Podcast, it carries more weight.Non-Obvious Insights from our Conversation:Agents aren’t engaging with talking head videos like they used to“Talking head videos just suck. I posted one this morning, 20 minutes later, I'm like, ‘I shouldn't have even posted this.’ I didn't feel good about it because I don't think the format works.The attention of not just real estate agents, but the attention of people in general, changes over time. Once a certain format or a certain trend is just overdone, people just start to glaze over and they just swipe to the next video.”Talking head videos are about as basic, raw and authentic as it gets. Just you and a camera. So if that doesn’t catch attention, what does?Test using visual gimmicks as the hook, not words and ideas“I think it's much more visual than we give it credit for. The other day, my wife and I saw some other video where people did these pieces of bread with peanut butter on them and then you bounce ping pong balls to play tic-tac-toe.”As a test, Dustin did something similar in his next 10 short videos, almost as a joke.“And it did fairly well, I think, because visually people are like, ‘What is going on there? Why are they bouncing? What are the pieces of bread doing? Why do they have ping pong balls?’”Clearly this is a sign of the apocalypse.But in all seriousness. You CAN get away with this tactic, but it better be authentic to you.Can you imagine Simon Sinek doing gimmicky hook videos?Yeah, me neither.“BUT, BUT…Gary Vee!” you say?Gary Vee is genuinely obsessed with the question of “where is attention flowing right now?”He monetized that obsession by selling social media packages to big, boring companies who hope he can make teenagers care about their big, boring company.And if that’s your obsession, too, awesome!Then visual gimmicks will probably work great for you.For everyone else, it’s a trap.It will be inauthentic, and the very people you’re trying to reach will be turned off by it.Now for Dustin’s final insight on short-form video…Create Your Long-Form Content with Short-Form in Mind“I'm actually incorporating more of those short form attention grabbing tactics into my pod. Better hooks up front, getting right into it and start delivering the stuff.I've been podcasting for seven and a half years now. When I started, I wasn't even recording video. It was just the audio. Now it's slowly progressed to where now I'm almost recording the pod, thinking about what the clips will look like.”Even if you don’t dive into the world of YouTube Shorts and IG Reels, you can always have better hooks and less fluff.That’s why there’s no big intro to the audio version of these conversations, no music. Just get into it. We’re entering a brave new world of UN-branding, and it’s going to make a lot of people uncomfortable. More on that in future newsletters.Want to go deeper? Click on the audio file above to listen to the full chat, also available on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.Or Hit Reply and tell me why I’m wrong about Gary Vee:)I had a whole chapter in the MicroFamous book where I broke down Gary Vee versus Simon Sinek. So I love the stark contrast in their styles.Steal This:Set up your phone next to your monitor to record you while you’re guesting on podcasts or recording long-form content.Shorts and Reels recorded from an off angle are performing better right now.Quick Links & ResourcesMassive Agent PodcastBAM MediaDustin’s InstagramLoved the conversation with Dustin, super open and transparent about what’s working and not. Connect with him, subscribe to Massive Agent, do all the things.Talk soon!-MattCEO - MicroFamousAuthor - MicroFamousPS Want a platform like this? Click here to learn about our done-for-you services. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit rethoughtleaders.substack.com

Josh is one of the OG’s of real estate podcasting, launching GSD Mode in 2013 (beating me to the game by about 2 years). He’s also sold 1,000s of homes and built a massive following by ignoring industry trends and focusing on what actually works.Non-Obvious Insights from our Conversation:Authenticity Trumps Production Value“I just started getting on a mic, speaking into Zoom or StreamYard or whatever the platform is and realized that nobody cared. There was no difference in analytics. Nobody cared... They just cared about great content.”Agents are getting skeptical of polished or AI-generated content. Josh saw this coming and stripped down his podcast so it’s him talking into a mic. No fancy intros and outros, no pricey studio and camera crew.AI’s Biggest Value Might Be Productivity, Not Lead Gen“ I think the people that are winning with AI are the ones that are looking at it as a tool to buy back their time, to get rid of the redundant stuff…the stuff that doesn’t require their unique skill set, and then double down on the stuff that does. And the people that are struggling with it are the ones that think it’s just going to do everything for them, and then they’re disappointed when it doesn’t.”You’ll see this is a recurring theme in thought leaders I’ve spoken to. Agents are looking at AI the same way they looked at social selling 10 years ago, as a way to avoid the tedium of lead gen or relationship building.That means there’s a big opportunity to create content for each of those 2 groups - 1) The beginners and strugglers who will click on content about AI for lead gen (then steer them to better uses), and 2) More advanced, successful agents looking for AI productivity hacks specifically for real estate.The Hardest Work Is Listening, Not Speaking“That is the hard work that some content creators don’t want to go through. Even some frontline leaders, right? It’s constantly being in the trenches, talking to your ideal audience and having the humility to ask and not believe that you already know because you’ve been around the business. And I’m that’s an easy temptation to fall into, right? I fall into it too.”It’s easy to get disconnected from the shifting pain points and mental states of everyday agents. Especially if you’re in a leadership role rather than in production. The best way to get reconnected is through conversations. The MOM Test is a super useful book for having these kinds of exploratory conversations, it’s one of Tim Ferriss’ most recommended.Want to go deeper? Click on the audio file above to listen to the full chat with Josh, also available on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.Or Hit Reply and tell me what you’re seeing in your marketingI’m seeing that agent’s mindsets are changing, the market is shifting, and content is evolving…all at the same time.Should it surprise us that the stuff that worked 2 years ago isn’t working so well today?Steal This:Take a page from Josh’s playbook and publish something so raw it makes you uncomfortable.I’d bet it gets more engagement than anything you’ve put out that “elevates your brand.”See for yourself how much people are craving content that’s real and raw.Quick Links & ResourcesGSD Mode PodcastYouTube ChannelInstagramMastery Bootcamp CoachingBig THANK YOU to Josh for doing this series!He’s one of the hardest working thought leaders in real estate.So connect with him at one of those links and give him a shoutout.-MattCEO - MicroFamousAuthor - MicroFamousPS Want a platform like this? Click here to learn about our done-for-you services. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit rethoughtleaders.substack.com

Hey! Matt Johnson here, thanks for checking out Real Estate Thought Leaders.This is a passion project to answer a few big questions my friends and agency clients are facing right now.How do we…* get agents’ attention?* create a sense of shared mission and community?* deal with marketing platforms getting more expensive and less effective?All while respond to massive shifts in technology, regulation and agent expectations?So I wanted to talk to leaders in a variety of niches that have one common thread -They need to reach and engage real estate agents to hit their goals.Maybe they’re a coach, speaker or author, maybe they’re a leader at a title or mortgage brand, a real estate SaaS founder, a team leader or broker, even an association leader.We all have the same challenges, so I wanted to create the ultimate guide to reach and engage agents, the kind of content I would have killed for when I started Real Estate Uncensored 10 years ago.Now call me lucky or good, but that podcast did well and has millions of downloads and put me on a bunch of stages.I started that because I have an inner drive to teach, train and lead people. That drive is so deep I can’t shut it off.And if you have the same drive, you’re probably already trying to reach and engage agents.And you know you can be doing it better.The insights on this platform will help you do that.If you want help putting those insights into action, here are two ways I can help.Private Consulting - Let’s talk systems and strategies for engagement, monetization, co-marketing and partner channel marketing, and frictionless content systems.Go here to grab a Quick Connect Call.Done-for-You Content You have authentic conversations. We turn that into multiple forms of content. From email newsletters and social posts to audio podcasts and YouTube videos. So you amplify your most authentic content.But even if you just follow along and do it yourself, hopefully this platform will help you reach and engage agents so you can hit your goals. Enjoy! This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit rethoughtleaders.substack.com