The Underground Sessions Podcast

A Catholic couple in Massachusetts walked through months of training, interviews, and home studies to become foster parents—only to be denied, not for lack of care or competence, but because of their traditional Christian beliefs about sexuality and gender. In a state facing a severe foster care shortage, with children sleeping in hospitals due to lack of placement, this case raises a sobering cultural question: do people with historic religious convictions still have a place in caring for society’s most vulnerable? This episode unpacks what happened to Mike and Kitty Burke and why their lawsuit has implications far beyond one family or one state.At the heart of this conversation is more than politics or policy—it’s a clash over the meaning of love, affirmation, and pluralism in modern America. We explore why Christians believe love and disagreement are not opposites, how religious liberty is tested when the state enforces a single moral framework, and what this moment reveals about foster care, parental rights, and the future of faith-based service. The call for believers is neither retreat nor rage, but conviction shaped by compassion—standing for truth while remaining committed to caring for children who need homes, families, and hope.

What do people actually mean when they say Christian nationalism—and why does the term spark so much confusion, fear, and controversy? In this episode, we slow the conversation down and ask better questions about faith, politics, moral authority, and the role of Christians in public life.We’re joined by Dr. Todd Williams, president of Cairn University and a longtime scholar of social theory, civic life, and religious liberty. Drawing from decades of teaching and public engagement, Todd helps untangle how labels get weaponized, why neutrality is a myth, and what’s really at stake when Christians talk about law, nationhood, and moral vision.At the heart of the conversation is a grounding reminder: politics cannot save us—but faith should still shape how we live, vote, and seek the good of our neighbors. This episode challenges fear-driven engagement and calls Christians back to thoughtful, faithful citizenship rooted in the gospel rather than cultural panic.

President Donald Trump’s recent executive order aimed at lowering IVF costs and expanding access has pushed infertility back into the national spotlight. While the order reflects a good and understandable desire—helping couples who long for children—it also arrives in the middle of growing legal, political, and ethical tension. Court rulings, including the Alabama Supreme Court decision recognizing frozen embryos as legally protected children, have forced the country to confront difficult questions about life, personhood, and the limits of government policy. IVF may be discussed in campaign speeches and courtrooms, but behind every headline is a couple carrying grief, hope, and unanswered prayers.This episode approaches IVF not as a partisan issue, but as a profoundly human and spiritual one. Scripture invites compassion for the pain of infertility while also calling Christians to think carefully about the moral weight of embryos and the means by which life is created. We explore why ethical reflection matters, how the church can avoid both moral indifference and harsh condemnation, and why politics—while influential—can never heal the deepest ache involved. The call for believers is not to choose between conviction and compassion, but to hold both together, walking with couples in truth, mercy, and hope before a God who sees every life and every longing.

In a cultural moment where doubt is often praised and belief treated with suspicion, many people quietly wonder whether faith can still be held with intellectual honesty. In this episode of The Underground Sessions Podcast, we explore that tension with Mary Jo Sharp—a former atheist, philosopher, and Christian apologist who understands skepticism from the inside.Mary Jo shares her personal journey from disbelief to faith, reflecting on the questions that eventually made atheism feel insufficient and the surprises she encountered after becoming a Christian. Drawing from years of teaching, writing, and ministry, she helps us think carefully about evidence, trust, suffering, beauty, and the problem of evil—while also addressing the emotional and relational barriers that often shape belief just as much as intellectual ones. With insight shaped by ministry in both the Pacific Northwest and the Bible Belt, she offers a nuanced picture of how skepticism differs across cultural contexts.The conversation closes by turning toward practice: how Christians can engage skeptics without defensiveness or pressure, how churches can create space for honest doubt, and what thoughtful seekers might do if they want to explore faith without pretending certainty. This episode isn’t about winning arguments—it’s about whether belief is still possible, reasonable, and worth pursuing when certainty feels out of reach.More from Mary Jo SharpWebsite https://maryjosharp.com/Why I Still Believe: A Former Atheist’s Reckoning with the Bad Reputation Christians Give a Good Godhttps://a.co/d/czWgpSrWhy Do You Believe That?: A Faith Conversation - Bible Study Bookhttps://a.co/d/f4u13ipSearch Ministries https://searchnational.org/aboutReach Podcasthttps://reachothers.org/the-reach-podcast

The phrase “changed for good” has become a cultural shorthand for growth, healing, and moral clarity. In this short-form Underground Sessions commentary, we examine how that idea is presented in Wicked: For Good, and why the story it tells about goodness, intention, and transformation resonates so deeply in a culture uneasy with moral judgment. Recent reporting surrounding the film’s press tour—particularly involving Ariana Grande, Cynthia Erivo, and Ethan Slater—provides an unexpected window into the moral logic beneath the narrative.This episode contrasts that logic with the Christian understanding of transformation. Rather than treating evil as misunderstanding or harm as sincerity, Scripture offers a more searching diagnosis of the human heart—one that insists on repentance before renewal and truth before healing. Drawing from biblical teaching and classical Christian thought, the commentary asks whether a culture that struggles to name what is wrong can ever produce real change, and why the gospel’s promise is not that we were always good, but that we can be made new.Thumbnail image: Cynthia Erivo (left) and Ariana Grande at the “Wicked” premiere. Licensed under CC BY 4.0 (https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/). Image modified (subjects isolated from background).

As headlines promise a future without work or poverty, bold claims are being made about technology’s ability to solve the deepest human problems. In this short-form Underground Sessions commentary, we examine the vision put forward by Elon Musk—that humanoid robots could eliminate poverty, make labor optional, and usher in a new era of abundance—and ask what assumptions about humanity, work, and hope are embedded in that promise.Drawing on Scripture and cultural analysis, this episode explores whether poverty is truly a technical problem, what role work plays in human purpose, and why abundance alone has never healed the human heart. Rather than rejecting technology outright, the commentary offers a sober framework for discernment—affirming innovation as a tool while rejecting the idea that progress itself can save. The question left before listeners is simple but unavoidable: where does true hope come from, and what kind of future are we actually being formed to desire?

As attention centered on the Stranger Things finale, a larger shift in the entertainment landscape went largely unnoticed—one with significant implications for how moral categories are formed and sustained. This short-form Underground Sessions commentary examines how competing streaming platforms shape public assumptions about evil, responsibility, authority, and hope, and why the consolidation of cultural storytellers matters far beyond market share.Focusing on Stranger Things as a case study, the episode explores how modern storytelling frames evil primarily through the lens of trauma, while alternative cultural narratives emphasize order and restraint. Drawing on Scripture, the commentary considers what these frameworks explain well, where they fall short, and why Christian theology insists on addressing both guilt and grace. The result is a sober reflection on which stories can withstand moral collapse—and which cannot.Stranger Things is a trademark of Netflix. This video is an independent commentary and is not affiliated with or endorsed by Netflix.

For decades, Rob Reiner helped shape America’s moral imagination through film, television, and cultural influence—telling stories rooted in justice, love, and the promise of moral progress. This week, that narrative collided with devastating tragedy. In this short-form Underground Sessions commentary, we pause before rushing to political, psychological, or ideological explanations and ask a harder question: What happens when a culture that promises moral progress cannot explain moral collapse?This episode offers a sober, biblically grounded reflection on the limits of secular moral frameworks and why evil continues to shock a culture convinced it has moved beyond it. Without sensationalism or moral grandstanding, we explore what Scripture says about the human heart, why progress without God fails to produce peace, and how the gospel uniquely confronts tragedy with truth, accountability, and hope.Photo by Gage Skidmore, licensed under CC BY-SA 4.0 (https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0), via Wikimedia Commons.

The Underground Sessions Podcast returns to a story with major implications at the crossroads of faith, culture, and public policy. In this episode, we revisit the case of First Choice Women’s Resource Center v. Platkin, which was argued before the U.S. Supreme Court on December 2. We explore why a small New Jersey nonprofit—known for providing free resources and compassionate support to women and families—found itself facing an aggressive state investigation, and what broader questions this moment raises for nonprofits, churches, and ministries nationwide.Executive Director Aimee Huber joins us once again to share what it was like to sit inside the Supreme Court chambers as the justices weighed in on the state’s sweeping subpoena. We’re also joined by Caleb Dalton, counsel with Alliance Defending Freedom, who helps unpack the legal stakes, the surprising alliances surrounding the case, and the constitutional principles being tested. Together, they offer a firsthand look at the arguments, the most revealing exchanges with the justices, and the potential paths forward.Finally, we look ahead. What happens if the Court rules narrowly? What would a broader ruling mean for the freedoms of religious organizations and charitable nonprofits across the country? And how should believers think, pray, and stay engaged as we wait for a decision expected no later than June? This inspiring conversation calls listeners to understand the moment, support those on the front lines, and remain steadfast in hope as First Choice continues its mission to serve women with dignity and care.

In this compelling episode, Pastor Bob sits down with Dr. Todd Hall from Biola University’s Rosemead School of Psychology to explore the quiet epidemic behind much of our cultural unrest: disconnection. Drawing from his book The Connected Life, Dr. Hall unpacks the theory of relational spirituality: how our early relationships shape not only how we relate to others, but how we relate to God.Together, they examine the rising loneliness in our culture, the impact of attachment theory on spiritual formation, and the common but misguided routes many Christians take in pursuit of growth. What emerges is a timely challenge for church leaders and communities: to rethink discipleship not as information transfer, but as relational transformation.If you've ever wondered why some people "know God" yet struggle to trust Him, or why vulnerability feels like a risk in Christian community; this conversation is for you.More on Todd and his new book:https://www.connectedlifebook.com/

Welcome back to the Underground Sessions Podcast! In this episode, Pastor Bob is joined by Philip Dearborn, President of the Association of Biblical Higher Education (ABHE). They have an engaging discussion covering the history of education, the current landscape of higher education as well as some helpful advice as you are considering college. Join as we discuss this very important topic! Like and subscribe if you are watching us on YouTube; follow us if you are listening on Apple Podcasts.  ABHE Website: https://www.abhe.org/

In this episode Bob is joined by Claudia Tamas, a Colson Fellow and healthcare professional. Claudia has done extensive research on the transgender movement. Our discussion offers the history, definitions and implications of the current transgender conversation. We also frame a response from a Christian worldview perspective. We hope this episode equips you to engage your skeptical friends!

In this episode, Pastor Bob is joined by Pastor Dave for a stimulating discussion with Dr. Alfonse Javed. Our focus is Islam. We cover questions like: what do Muslims believe? How do we share Christ with our Muslim neighbors? And, what are some issues to be aware of? As always, we seek to "equip the saints to engage the skeptics." Enjoy the conversation!Resources: Hearts for Muslims: https://www.heartformuslims.com/Dr. Javed's book, "The Muslim Next Door": https://a.co/d/eysYQlo

March is Disability Awareness Month, and we’re excited to bring you a special episode for the occasion. Bob Erbig is joined by his wife, Amanda, along with Rob and Tammy Mittuch, as they share their experiences as parents of children with disabilities. Together, they discuss the challenges, joys, and the profound ways God has worked in their lives through their parenting journey. We hope this heartfelt conversation encourages and inspires you.

In this episode, Pastor Bob chats with Adrienne Livingston from World Venture. Adrienne is one of our supported world partners and she specialized in the topic of human sex trafficking. We discuss this influence of the pornography industry on sex trafficking and what we can do to combat it. This episode contains necessary but sensitive content—listener discretion advised. We hope you benefit from this important conversation.

In this episode, Pastor Bob sits down with Neil Shenvi, author of the book, Critical Dilemma. Neil was a speaker at our 2025 Contend Conference, when this episode was recorded. We discuss the topic of "Critical Theory and Social Justice Ideology," which Neil has extensively researched. If you are confused about the term critical theory and how it impacts popular culture—this episode is for you! Neil blogs at his website: shenviapologetics.com. He also write a book on apologetics entitled, "Why Believe?" 

In this episode of the Underground Session podcast Pastor Bob Erbig is joined by a co-host, Delia Kang, as they interview the one and only, Alisa Childers. This episode was filmed during our 2025 Contend Conference. Bob and Delia ask Alisa questions of the deconstruction movement. If you are wrestling with deconstruction, or know someone who is, this is the episode for you. We hope the content benefits you! For more on Alisa, visit her website:https://alisachilders.com/

In this episode, Pastor Bob talks with Krista Bontrager and Monique Duson from the Center for Biblical Unity. This ministry is a "leading Christian voice on issues related to race, justice, unity and the impact of the Critical Social Theories coming into the church and society." Our discussion focuses on their new book, Walking In Unity, which outlines a better way forward for race relations in the church and society.You can connect with Krista and Monique at their website: https://www.centerforbiblicalunity.com/You can order "Walking In Unity" here: https://a.co/d/aynW7Sj

This episode features an interview with Katy Faust. She founded and leads “Them Before Us,” an organization committed to advocating the rights of children. She recently edited and released the book, “Pro Child Politics,” which is the subject of our interview. What does it look like to put children first in every area of public policy? How should that influence our voting patterns. Join us for this informative and provocative discussion. Them Before Us: https://thembeforeus.com/Order "Pro Child Politics": https://www.amazon.com/Pro-Child-Politics-Cultural-Economic-National/dp/B0D6LT3ZB3/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?crid=1Z59S8WIIYGOU&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.dLIIpMgrW7jvDHFow3zZhAJ2g_axs6-cXGpABJpIHe-jYQFk1fVmUSbCfFqymj-6pVIFPi72aHVNbQ5YMwo9Xp4HLV7nvZUUCMnfgSTosBVvnCmlio-ZR9X1AAruC8OhqV81W5yOqDjqduzUIhc6Zqh0weuZP3Cq35i4hh1n_qOhMoUmzhIH66tuFp2Qr4oi5LGUub3-6aTe5krF9CjBag.p8A9XC1xnmur5tCviPLHyqNshEpjgiyFglu3GyAj-Zc&dib_tag=se&keywords=pro+child+politics&qid=1729259955&sprefix=pro+child+politics%2Caps%2C120&sr=8-1

In this episode, Pastor Bob is joined by Jesse Nash, a frequent speaker at our Underground Events. Jesse is a practicing lawyer in NJ. Our discussion covers current issues on the legal landscape as it relates to people of faith. In the second half we discuss how the current presidential candidates approach five important issues: human dignity, free speech, marriage and sexuality, parental rights, and religious liberty. Join us for an informative and challenging episode.Adflegal.org

Bob Erbig and his co-pastor Dave Hentschel are joined by their respective former professors for a rousing discussion about the end times. We cover differing views on the rapture, we look at the nature of Israel and the Church, and learn how to disagree well in these polarized times.  Dr. Craig Blomberg is Professor of New Testament at Denver Seminary in Littleton, CO. Dr. Darrell Bock leads the Center for Cultural Engagement at Dallas Theological Seminary in Texas.  

Pastor Bob sits down with Aimee Huber, Executive Director of First Choice Women's Resource Center, and the Alliance Defending Freedom for an update on their legal situation. This episode follows a topic we covered last season and offers new insights. The conversation around the life issue has become central this election cycle—this conversation catapults the listener to ground zero of policy implications. Listen and share!

Where do we find morality?  Where does it come from?  Is there morality in a universe without a God?  Do we need God for morality?  On todays edition of the Underground Sessions Podcast, we discuss this and more with former atheist turned Christian apologist Steve DiSebastian.More on Steve DiSebastian:Website:https://www.confidenceinchrist.org/Reintroducing Jesus: Uncovering Jesus in the Misinformation Age:https://www.amazon.com/Reintroducing-Jesus-Uncovering-Misinformation-Age/dp/B0CQC9GXS5/ref=sr_1_5?crid=GLOHD4EBP2H3&keywords=reintroducing+jesus&qid=1702736448&sprefix=reintroducin%2Caps%2C918&sr=8-5Ratio Christi:https://ratiochristi.org/

Welcome back to the Underground Sessions Podcast, the online branch of Our Underground sessions ministry. To kick off season 4, Pastor Bob Erbig sits down with his colleague Pastor Dave Hentschel to discuss the relationship of the Church and the State in relation to the political climate of today’s United States of America.Recommended Resources on the Church and Political Engagement: Video Lectures: A Baptist View of the State by Dr. Hunter Bakerhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaPvy6gbtuY&t=11sA Biblical-Theological Reflection on the Relationship between Church and State - Dr. Stephen Wellumhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmdGC0MCvMYBaptists, Take Up and Read Tocqueville - Dr. John D. Wilseyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQ-6n9JoIuoDisestablishment Does Not a Jeffersonian or Rawlsian Make - Dr. Andrew T. Walkerhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZRRKXWNkng&t=50sThe Authority of the Church and the Authority of the State - Dr. Jonathan Leemanhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnbKJWkwPoUMust Liberty Mean Licentiousness? American Baptists and Public Theology - Dr. Cory D. Higdonhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJ0xLjyBMpYMark Dever Talk on Politics and the Local Churchhttps://www.thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justin-taylor/mark-dever-on-politics-and-the-local-church/ SermonsThe Gospel and Government – Message on Romans 13 (Pastor Bob Erbig)https://millingtonbaptist.org/vimeo-video/the-gospel-and-the-government-pastor-bob-erbig-behold-new-life-living-and-loving-as-heirs-5-31-20/ BooksPolitics after Christendom: Political Theology in a Fractured World by David VanDrunenhttps://www.amazon.com/Politics-after-Christendom-Political-Fractured/dp/0310108845/ref=sr_1_1?crid=17GG0DMBOCD75&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.41oAu2ClkCvKgW0hJdARBf4mhdOuernI4tfgxJBAsUoQaE2gnANZ8JQzWGdsANdQfmx3ibfEAfMrJyM90C12SIFRH5d0VoWefiYYoAgooU3Nn5id4yMrccNf-G-Vva5loMIERZv2hZTSE8KRy7cIBLTAFzXZnUEO4mFeHvsHALeEE11S199yCVIydyUlatwxvfqdvE3MCj6wJHVaBnzmFAjSS5iyt0BAF1VJ_XtKTEw.JB__jDAqnRMduQfQco3bV5IBL2To2f47BuzhDp-_A5c&dib_tag=se&keywords=david+vandrunen&qid=1709554481&sprefix=david+vandrun%2Caps%2C108&sr=8-1Living in God's Two Kingdoms: A Biblical Vision for Christianity and Culture by David VanDrunenhttps://www.amazon.com/Living-Gods-Two-Kingdoms-Christianity-ebook/dp/B004774AT4?ref_=ast_author_mpbHow the Nations Rage: Rethinking Faith and Politics in a Divided Age, by Jonathan Leemanhttps://www.amazon.com/How-Nations-Rage-Rethinking-Politics/dp/1400218446/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1RI4RUDYB6B4P&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.gtSrgvwjkYVT30xWW06YSrOj-ppn8JMtwEXbbAicC2Q.jx6HZGDbaFgdpdvZAPnrbqAyxbutG3IiAALZzKjZ-70&dib_tag=se&keywords=why+do+the+nations+rage+jonathan+leeman&qid=1709554422&sprefix=why+do+the+nations+rage+jonathan+leeman%2Caps%2C92&sr=8-1The Case for Christian Nationalism by Stephen Wolfehttps://www.amazon.com/Case-Christian-Nationalism-Stephen-Wolfe-ebook/dp/B0BHZMGXNF/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3U0K0WQWQ2W3D&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.QQHQTAlSHQvcBiPrYmOQcJ1a1pgSBAjwVPhGiUhKks7GwCnDOev7K8hbiJzTtgFEha1bXQ6wigRnvQ43WSpMehpGbBXDVG7zv_7q1sNoAGg.6ph2f3DNuDebLBpb_tkOonytbYdjZKles_ac9yOCFoA&dib_tag=se&keywords=christian+nationalism+stephen+wolfe&qid=1709555102&s=digital-text&sprefix=christian+nationalism+stephen+wolfe+%2Cdigital-text%2C84&sr=1-1The Kingdom, the Power, and the Glory: American Evangelicals in an Age of Extremism by Tim Alberta https://www.amazon.com/Kingdom-Power-Glory-Evangelicals-Extremism/dp/006322688XHow Can I Love Church Members with Different Politics? (9 Marks Church Questions) by Naselli and Leeman  https://www.amazon.com/Church-Members-Different-Politics-Questions-ebook/dp/B086H3LHS3?ref_=ast_author_dp&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.Sw2u4mgxuNqLON2aqL8hGX3299-80zpTqXN1mdPoglYi_rv4oIGF_giIYM6ubN1bgd1-Fcbp

On our latest episode we are joined by Steve DiSebastian who discusses his book 'Reintroducing Jesus: Uncovering Jesus in the Misinformation Age.' He shares his background and journey from skepticism to faith, highlighting the objections he had and the questions he sought answers to. The conversation delves into the rise of apathy and moral objections in today's culture, the phenomenon of deconstructing faith, and the misinformation surrounding Jesus.  We also discuss the attacks on the Bible and the misquoting of Jesus for political purposes. Finally we cover the  importance of understanding worldviews and their role in apologetics is emphasized, along with the need to reach the next generation amidst apathy and distraction.  We hope you enjoy this episode!"Reintroducing Jesus: Uncovering Jesus in the Misinformation Age," By Steve DiSebastianhttps://www.amazon.com/Reintroducing-Jesus-Uncovering-Misinformation-Age/dp/B0CQC9GXS5/ref=sr_1_1?qid=1707422024&refinements=p_27%3ASteve+DiSebastian&s=books&sr=1-1

We are joined by Aimee Huber who is the Executive Directer of First Choice Women's Resource Center, which is a pro-life pregnancy center in New Jersey, as well as one of her lawyers, Gabriella McIntyre from the Alliance Defending Freedom.  We discuss the challenges faced by First Choice, and the legal issues surrounding their work. The conversation covers topics such as the scope of First Choice's ministry, the state of the pro-life movement in New Jersey, the resistance and harassment faced by First Choice, and the potential consequences of the legal battle. The conversation also highlights the importance of prayer and support for First Choice and emphasizes the faith and trust in God's work in the midst of challenges.If you would like to support first choice visit their website here!https://1stchoice.org

On this episode, Bob Erbig is joined by special guest George Yancey where they talk about the political divide between conservative and progressive christians, and take a look into the year 2024.  Enjoy this interesting interview!

Bob Erbig is joined by writer and professor Jason Thacker!  Together they discuss artificial intelligence and what it means for us in today's society, and as Christians.  Check out the titles mentioned today as well as more of Jason's titles here:https://jasonthacker.com/books/Check out Jasons Podcast "Digital Public Square Podcast" here:https://jasonthacker.com/digital-public-square-podcast/

Bob Erbig chats with our friend Dr. Paul Gould and discusses apologetics, answers some questions that we weren't able to get to at our contend conference, as well as jumping into the topic of Artificial Intelligence for a bit.  Enjoy the interview!

The Underground Sessions Podcast is back!  We are rebooting this podcast to complement our upcoming Underground Sessions event!  We will be discussing all sorts of A.I. Related topics and how they relate to christian life today.  Today we are joined by Hock Ng who, along with Bob Erbig, will intro the topic for us.  Enjoy!