Gun Lawyer

  Episode 289-Remember Bryan Malinowski Also Available On Searchable Podcast Transcript Gun Lawyer -- Episode Transcript Page - 1 - of 14 Gun Lawyer -- Episode 289 Transcript SUMMARY KEYWORDS ATF raid, Brian Malinowski, unlicensed dealer, Arkansas lawmakers,

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  Episode 277-Three-Round Burst of GOFU’s Also Available OnSearchable Podcast Transcript Gun Lawyer — Episode Transcript Page – 1 – of 11 Gun Lawyer — Episode 277 Transcript SUMMARY KEYWORDS GOFUs, New Jersey gun laws, vampire rule, sensitive places, unlawful possession, pretrial detention, federal injunction, carry permit, gun transport, Second Amendment, gun rights, legal advice, gun ownership, gun regulations, gun safety, gun culture. SPEAKERS Speaker 2, Evan Nappen, Teddy Nappen Evan Nappen 00:17 I’m Evan Nappen. Teddy Nappen 00:19 And I’m Teddy Nappen. Evan Nappen 00:21 And welcome to Gun Lawyer. So, you know our show here, one of the things that is very, very famous about our show are GOFUs. And GOFUs, as my listeners know, are Gun Owner Fuck Ups. The idea with GOFUs is these are real cases, actual things that happened. They are expensive lessons that people learn, and that you, the listener, get to learn for free. And of course, we always do the GOFU at the end of the show, whatever this week’s GOFU may be. But suddenly I’ve been pounded with GOFUs, and they’re very important. And I said, you know what? We’re going to do a three round burst here of some really important GOFUs, including what I want to begin with by telling you about this actual case. It illustrates just how insane New Jersey is and what every law-abiding gun owner could, in fact, face. Evan Nappen 01:32 Of course, I’m not using any names, but this is an actual situation that occurred. And some things, looking at the situation that the, and not just necessarily a mistake that the gun owner did, but something that hit me as extremely important for every New Jersey gun owner to make sure they do. There’s a very simple thing that is very important that could be critical between whether or not they hold you in jail or release you. We’re going to get to that from this story so you’ll learn this secret, so that you don’t end up in this GOFU situation. Spending days or weeks incarcerated for nothing, because that’s what the Gulag does, as you know. This is a case that wraps it all up into that. Evan Nappen 02:39 So, here’s this guy who comes into New Jersey, and he’s at a mall. Now, as you may know, the mall is not, in and of itself, a sensitive place, right? Those of us who have familiarized ourself, which hopefully all of you have, with these “sensitive places”. A mall is not, per se, a sensitive place. Now, there can be rules regarding malls where they say, hey, no guns in the mall. We don’t want guns, you know. And any Page – 2 – of 11 private property, whether open to the public or not, can have a prohibition privately saying we don’t want any guns here. In the same way they could say, we don’t want any dogs. We don’t want any bare feet. You know, things like that. The property owner has certain control. But if there is such a sign, if there is such a statement by a property owner, then if you come on to that property and they don’t want you on that property for a reason such as that. They can’t say, hey, we don’t allow minorities on our property. You know, they can’t. You can’t have racial discrimination in a place open to the public. But you can have other restrictions. Evan Nappen 04:07 Now, I happen to personally think that firearms should be viewed as a civil right and in the same category as discrimination, because it is a civil right. But that’s not currently how the law is. So, if a private entity prohibits gun, says no guns, then if you still go on that property and you’re specifically told to leave and don’t, then you’re what’s known as a defiant trespasser. So, what we’re talking about is trespassing, but trespassing is not a sensitive place violation. Sensitive place violations are specific gun law violations that create a certain place that becomes a prohibited area under the law to carry a gun, even if you have a permit to carry. So, this person is in the mall and apparently gets approached by mall security, who has allegedly dogs that can sniff gunpowder. Believe it or not, they’re out there. Apparently, he’s approached and they say, we think you have a gun. Please leave. And he does. No problem. He was asked to leave, and he leaves. Evan Nappen 05:30 After leaving, while in his car, driving, he gets stopped by police. More than even one because, oh, there’s a gun, right? Because, obviously, security called it in, I guess, at some point, and he was stopped. He is stopped for violating, in their minds, the sensitive place prohibition under Section 24 under Chapter 58 of the sensitive places. And what is that? What is that sensitive place that they believe he’s in violation of? Oh, New Jersey’s version of the vampire rule. The vampire rule is that you need permission before you go onto any private property. That is the issue that’s before the United States Supreme Court. The Hawaii, you know, the Woolford case in front of SCOTUS. We’re waiting for a decision. Evan Nappen 06:43 Now, Hawaii had the law just like New Jersey. The only difference is New Jersey’s vampire rule case saying that you can’t go on to private property, whether open to the public or not open to the public, you cannot go on any private property in New Jersey unless you first have permission to carry your gun there. In other words, they needed to have a sign, you know, that says we love guns. You know, basically, guns welcome. You know, guns permitted. Essentially, a sign. Or you got specific permission from the property owner before you enter the property. Hence the vampire rule. You know, as long as you don’t invite the vampire in to your place. That’s where that comes from. Evan Nappen 07:34 Well, New Jersey’s vampire rule, to impose this, you need permission first, before you can go on private property, even private property open to the public, has been found and was found unconstitutional in the Koons versus Platkin case. In Koons. And in that case, as you may recall, Judge Bump found it was unconstitutional and put an injunction on that section, saying it is unenforceable. It’s Page – 3 – of 11 unconstitutional. That any private property that is open to the public, you’re allowed to bring your gun on unless it’s otherwise a sensitive place. So, you know, if you want to go into a 7-11 with your carry gun, you can. It’s open to the public, even though it’s privately owned by 7-11. Now, if you want to go to a private residence, a private place that’s not open to the public, then you do need advanced permission for that. If you go into even your friend’s house, your friend needs to be able to say, yeah, you have permission to have your gun at my house. But not open to the public. Evan Nappen 09:00 So, the mall is open to the public. The mall is not a per se sensitive place. Yet, in this case, the basis for stopping and arresting this man or woman, I won’t even tell you what the sex is, the basis for the arrest is an alleged violation of the sensitive place section for which there is a federal injunction against enforcement. Then because somehow there’s this belief that if you are in violation of sensitive place, you’re also unlawfully carrying even though you have a carry permit, which makes absolutely no sense. There’s no logic to that. He’s charged with unlawful possession of a handgun without a carry permit, even though he has a carry permit. And, of course, with those gun charges, off to the Gulag you go. So, you are arrested, and you are put in jail. Evan Nappen 10:16 Now, the Gulag kicks in, where there’s 48 hours in which the prosecutor gets to decide whether to seek pretrial detention. It is solely within the discretion of the prosecutor. And if the prosecutor decides to seek pretrial detention, you’re going to be held for another five days before there’s a hearing when we can actually argue to get you out. And with the new law that was just signed by Murphy, they can get an additional five days to make sure that the gun is operable, to get an operability report, which is irrelevant to the charges anyway. So, by this arrest, you actually have the opportunity to be incarcerated basically for two weeks, guilty of nothing. Evan Nappen 11:08 What happened? Well, luckily, I got a call very quickly. When this person was in jail, loved ones got a hold of me. And this is on a Saturday, my friends, on a Saturday. Yeah. They do these on Saturday. They just hired me in time that I was able to get onto the court hearing 15 minutes before that first 48 hour time period, for that very first hearing where there’s no argument. The prosecutor either is going to say we’re seeking pretrial detention or not, but at least I could get on. And, lo and behold, I get on, and the prosecutor, big shock, is seeking pretrial detention, which means he’s going to be held or she is going to be held another five days or so, to have that hearing. It may be longer if they’re going to go for the operability nonsense, too. Teddy Nappen 12:11 Doesn’t Bergen County always seek pretrial detention? Evan Nappen 12:16 Well, it’s not just Bergen. And let me say this isn’t necessarily even Bergen, by the way, Teddy. But most counties have a policy of just automatically seeking pretrial detention on most gun cases. So, that’s not a big surprise. But what happens is, in this 48 hour period here, we still have the court appearance. But there’s nothing an attorney officially can do, because the prosecutor is given the sole Page – 4 – of 11 discretion. The prosecutor says, well, it’s gun charges with the Graves Act. Because, of course, the seriousness of the charge is second degree. You’re looking up to 10 years in State Prison. You’ve got a minimum mandatory three and a half years with no chance of parole. So, because of the seriousness of that offense and the Graves Act and it’s guns, we’re going to seek pretrial detention. Evan Nappen 13:13 And the court says, you know, Mr. Nappen, do you have anything that you want to add? And I say, and here’s exactly what I did them. I said, look, I understand how much discretion the prosecutor has here. Normally, we just have to wait until the hearing in order to argue. But I have to say, and I make it clear here. I say, look, my client not only had a permit to carry and why the state can’t access it, you know, they took his wallet and he can’t get to his wallet. And for whatever reason, there’s some glitch in them trying to get it out of the State Police. I don’t know why, but the very basis for his arrest was for a law for which there is an injunction, a federal injunction, that’s been upheld even by the Appeals Court. So, you have law enforcement violating a federal court injunction and charging and utilizing a statute that is enjoined from being enforced. Evan Nappen 14:19 So, in complete violation of that injunction, I make it clear that that is what is going on here with someone who has a permit, who has the lowest scores on the PSA of a one, one, that’s the lowest you can get. The PSAs are your flight risk and danger risk that they calculate into whether you’re to be released. Now they’re looking to hold them for another five to 10 days to even try to get them argued out. And at that point, the court officer actually says, well, counselor, there’s no argument here at this level. You’ll have to argue, you know, at the hearing when it gets scheduled. And I said, look, I’m not arguing anything. I said, do you know what I’m doing? I’m putting the State on notice as to the civil rights violation taking place on my client. At which time, the prosecutor says, look, we haven’t even had a chance to talk, and I said, no, we haven’t. I just got hired and got on here 15 minutes ago. Well, let’s talk. I said, okay. Evan Nappen 15:24 We had a private conference, and when we came back, I’m happy to say that the prosecutor withdrew their motion for pretrial detention. My client got out of jail that day, and now we will fight these charges. I’m extremely confident in how that fight is going to go as well. So, folks, what are the takeaways? Look at the risk you’re running. Look at the utter and complete failure of the Attorney General of New Jersey to inform law enforcement as to the changes in the law by these court actions. Why are the police charging an offense which has been enjoined? Police should know better, but I’ll tell you what else. The Attorney General should be instructing, the way they’ve done so many other times on so many other things, to all law enforcement, explaining how that sensitive place has been enjoined. And how on public property, it is not a sensitive place where you need prior permission under the vampire rule. This hasn’t been done. So, you have what is essentially a false arrest taking place. Evan Nappen 17:06 You have a system designed to incarcerate gun owners. It is outrageous, and you need to know that this what you’re up against. So, what do you need to do to protect yourself? Where’s the GOFU aspect? Well, let me tell you something that would be really important. Here’s what everybody should Page – 5 – of 11 do. Make sure your carry permit, make sure your gun licenses, are also, copies are given to your loved ones. People you can count on. Because if you get incarcerated and your wife or your parents or your brother is calling me and if they can get me copies of your carry permit or gun license that you otherwise can’t access, I can get that to the prosecutor. There doesn’t have to be a dependency for somehow getting it out of the State Police in time. Or finding it in some wallet that’s been confiscated and held in evidence in some other place, in some other room, somewhere else. That can be of great assistance, immediate assistance, in addressing your arrest and avoiding further gulaging of you. So, make sure. The takeaway is to make sure that folks that care about you, that would be the people you would go to if you had a problem, that they can provide and have access to copies of your gun licenses. That would be incredibly important. The other thing is make sure you have an attorney that you can get a hold of right away. An attorney that can come to your aid, argue, to get you out on a Saturday where time is of the essence. Those are the takeaways that are critical from this experience. Evan Nappen 19:08 Let me tell you, the GOFU has taken on a life of its own, and I’m glad about it. I have here a listener who sent a GOFU that they wanted to make our other listeners aware of, and I appreciate that. They asked that I not use a name, but here’s the GOFU letter. It says, I have a GOFU for you. It’s important for people to know to do this, so please share it on your show. This past fall, I planned a trip to Western New York to visit my family. I have a New Jersey PTC, also a PA PTC. I really like to have my gun along on trips with the highway driving. So, I asked a few guys at the shooting range what I should do with the gun when I got to New York state line. They told me to stop at a rest stop before I enter the state, put the unloaded gun in a car safe, and I should be good. That’s what I did. When I reached my destination, I told my family I had brought it, since they like guns, and they absolutely freaked out. They told me, the police would arrest me. It was illegal to bring a gun into a destination in New York. I better bring it in the house and keep it hidden. And hide it really well on the drive back. They really got me worried. So worried, in fact, I couldn’t get to sleep. So, I checked New York gun laws, and sure enough, she was correct. I was scared and felt terrible. I was incriminating my family members. Needless to say, the gun and the safe box and its cable were very hidden on the way back. I was careful not to break any speed limits. You can sum it up this way, but my takeaway is you have to do your own research before you take your gun out of state. Otherwise, you might end up in jail, and I’m very thankful that I didn’t. Evan Nappen 20:50 This is very true. State lines mean something. Now, here’s where the GOFU was. The GOFU was not following Title, 18, 926A thoroughly. That’s the federal preemption that lets you transport interstate. You have to be going from one place where you lawfully can possess and carry to another place. Your end destination has to be a place where you can lawfully possess and carry. Since New York does not recognize New Jersey’s permit or Pennsylvania’s permit, and unless you have a New York non-resident permit, that will not cover you. So, bringing your cased and unloaded gun into New York, now you’re possessing a handgun in New York, and you don’t have the protection of federal preemption. That’s the problem. Page – 6 – of 11 Evan Nappen 21:42 And it is a GOFU. This person is absolutely right. Make sure you know the laws. Make sure you clear it with counsel, so that you do not end up a GOFU. Because if that person had been stopped in New York with that handgun while in New York, they would face dire consequences. So, know the gun laws. Know the state laws. Do your research. Best bet? Well, you can always ask me, that’s one thing you want to do. Get my book, New Jersey Gun Law. I’ll shamelessly plug my book right now, because right in my book is a chapter on how to properly interstate transport, right in there on transportation of guns. What you need to know. Go to EvanNappen.com and get your copy of my book, New Jersey Gun Law. It’s the bible of New Jersey gun law. That’s the kind of stuff you need. That’s the kind of information you must have. That’s what you need to do. You cannot take these things lightly, because the consequences can be dire, and we see it. So, I appreciate this GOFU. I appreciate it being pointed out. These are real people experiencing the horrors of gun laws that are designed to ruin people’s lives and to turn law-abiding citizens into criminals. To oppress our Second Amendment rights. That’s all these laws do. You’ve got to protect yourself, folks. Learn from these tips and learn from these cases so you don’t become the next GOFU. Evan Nappen 23:16 Hey, let me tell you about our friends at WeShoot. WeShoot is an range indoor range in Lakewood, New Jersey. The range where Teddy and I both shoot. We love WeShoot. Great training. Great range facilities. Great pro shop, and a great bunch of folks. This week they’re running some great specials. They have the Chiappa Rhino 60DS, which is a futuristic revolver with its low bore access design. It’s kind of cool. It delivers, you know, reduced recoil because of that and fast follow up shots. They’ve got a Mossberg Gold Reserve Sporting shotgun. It’s an over and under, built for clay and field. It has engraving, premium walnut, and it’s competition ready. It’s a beautiful gun. Check out the Mossberg Gold Reserve Sporting. They also have a Springfield Prodigy Comp gun, comp gun. A modern double-stack 1911-style performer. It has an integrated compensator, and it’s optics ready. It has serious speed for duty or competition. Check out that Springfield. And you can also check out Sarah Sablom. She is on the hunt for a perfect carry gun. You can check out one of these WeShoot girls there. Go to weshootusa.com for their great website with amazing photography. They’re running great deals. They look forward to helping you and making you part of the WeShoot family. Go to weshootusa.com. Evan Nappen 25:05 Let me also mention our friends at The Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs, who just recently, through my friend and colleague, Dan Schmutter, argued in the Coons case at the Appellate level. And we’re looking good. I’m cautiously optimistic. And that’s your Association at work in the courts, fighting the Carry Killer bill. They’re also fighting the assault firearm ban and the large capacity magazine ban. You need to be a member. Go to anjrpc.org. Make sure you belong to your state Association. They are the gun rights defenders for New Jersey. You’ll get a great emails of what’s going on. You’ll get the alerts. You’ll know that you’re part of the solution and helping to fight the gun rights oppressors in New Jersey. Go to anjrpc.org and join today. Teddy, what do you have for us today in Press Checks? Page – 7 – of 11 Teddy Nappen 26:08 Well, as you know, Press Checks are always free, and this is something I want people to understand. We cannot take our foot off the gas when it comes to fighting the good fight for our rights. Because, look, we have had a lot of great victories when it comes to Second Amendment, to the conservative movement, and to getting the word out there, thanks to Alternative tech. But the Left are slowly trying to crawl back their power. What do I mean by that? Well, our friends at Bearing Arms did an article. Cam Edwards says, NBC decided to give a platform to the anti-gun activists. (https://bearingarms.com/camedwards/2026/02/10/nbcs-today-show-gives-anti-2a-activist-platform-for-propaganda-n1231508) Oh, gee, what a shocker! Teddy Nappen 26:59 It was Nicole Hockley out of the Sandy Hook Promise. You know, another one of Bloomberg’s groups who called in to demonetize online influencers in the 2A space. You know, someone like you and I, Dad. You know, people like a Brandon Herrera or Grantham, Mr. Gunzing. You know, any individual who is a pro-gun influencer they want to demonetize. That’s their call to action. I love the framework that she abuses in this. Sandy Hook and the group called Untargeting Kids, a call for platform transparency, putting parents back in charge of firearm safety. You know, whenever I hear the Democrats try to say, we need to stand on parents rights, it’s always comes down to oh, when it comes to firearm safety. But, you know, when it is hardcore pornography being offered to children, oh, that’s fine. Or, you know, a drag queen story hour. Oh, that’s fine. But oh no, when it comes to firearms, we need to give it back to the parents. So, they were trying to, yeah, they were trying to run this experiment, testing YouTube accounts mimicking a nine to 14 year old. Evan Nappen 28:21 Wait. Are you telling me that the Left are hypocrites? Teddy Nappen 28:26 Oh, well, as the saying goes. Evan Nappen 28:28 I don’t know about that. Teddy Nappen 28:30 As the saying goes, they only have double standards, or they would not have any standards at all. Evan Nappen 28:37 Exactly. Teddy Nappen 28:39 That’s how it always is with them. Whenever you see the term parental rights, you can see in the very corner, TM. It’s their version. Not when it comes to gender ideology, not when it comes to abortion, not when it comes to any other thing, but parents rights, TM. That’s their abuse of the language. Did you ever hear the word Democracy, TM. Or Second Amendment, TM. That is their version. Not what we know to be fact and truth. It’s their version. But anyways. So, they ran this experiment, which, you Page – 8 – of 11 know, these experiments can easily be debunked just by the abuse of algorithms. But whatever. We will say, for the sake of argument, we will say this data is true. So, they ran this experiment, and then 14 year old received 1300 firearm-related video recommendations after watching video games and movies that included firearm content. So, you know, a kid watches a bunch of Let’s Plays on Call of Duty, and then all a sudden, he gets a breakdown of an unboxing of a ACOG scope or something stupid. It’s one of those where they’re trying to make this argument, this very weak argument, on saying, oh, these videos are being monetized to target advertising, targeting our children. So, if a kid is interested in firearms, what is the problem with that? Why? He gets bombarded with tons of movies on all forms of graphic violence that goes into that. Then all of a sudden, it comes up with ad on any other influencer regarding firearm breakdown, because that’s the goal. They want you to get engagement. That’s it. And then I love this one. 54% of boys from 10 to 17 report sexually charged firearm content. Now, they do not define what sexually charged firearm content is. Evan Nappen 30:40 What is sexually charged firearm content? What is that? Teddy Nappen 30:43 It’s called we made it up! Because they love to just define terms. Evan Nappen 30:52 They just threw sex with guns, and don’t define it. Teddy Nappen 30:55 Correct. It’s just, and by the way, they don’t list any of the materials that was reviewed by the bots. Evan Nappen 31:02 Wait, it sounds like ammosexuality. Teddy Nappen 31:05 I know. Yeah, it is the hopalosexual all over again. Evan Nappen 31:10 What is that? That’s really interesting. Teddy Nappen 31:12 Yeah, and they don’t list any of the video game content that was reviewed. It doesn’t list any of the movies reviewed or the TV shows. Oh, because they don’t want to show the sexually graphic material that is pushed by the Left. You know, that’s why, you know, ask them. Evan Nappen 31:28 They should list it. They should list all that so that we could carefully review it, Teddy. Teddy Nappen 31:32 Well, unfortunately. Page – 9 – of 11 Evan Nappen 31:34 All these sexual . . . Teddy Nappen 31:37 I know, right? I love, and then she goes on where they’re forming the sense of self-identity that the get, that getting, they’re getting content that is talking about firearms makes you powerful. Firearms makes you sexually attractive. Firearms are the way to solve your conflict. Firearms are used to solve very certain conflicts. You know, when defending yourself against a rapist or a pedophile. You know, in certain situations, it’s a very good solution. It’s not a magic wand, but it solves certain issues. But there’s more. They like to always equate, like, oh, why do you need a gun? Because your penis is small? Like, it’s one of the small ones. Like, it’s that. They always do that. We’re like, what does that have to do with the aspect of your rights to defend yourself? Like that is the goal that they always try to play. And then she goes off on this whole thing of, we need to demonetize this. We need to review this content and look at the algorithms of YouTube transparency on firearms. And there must be. We need to sense. It goes. This long-winded conversation is just, we need to have time to deletion for videos for unsafe handling of firearms. What’s unsafe? Oh, there’s a firearm in the video. It’s just that. It’s just we need it. That censorship is not our goal, though. Yes, it is. Evan Nappen 33:06 I’ll tell you what. Here’s where I’ll take them up on it. Before any movie or TV show where a gun is improperly handled, you know, shows produced by all these major media producers, just have a warning. Just the way they warn about profanity, and they warn about smoking. Put a warning that says “unsafe firearm use is in this movie”. Unsafe firearm use. Do you know how many times we’ll see that? Because the Left media is the largest actual demonstrator of unsafe and unlawful use of firearms. It’s not conservatives. It’s the opposite. And so, let’s see those warnings. That way people suddenly say, wow, look how many times firearms are abused, used improperly and used illegally in the movies? I mean, if you can warn about smoking, you should be able to warn about that. Just put it. Don’t, don’t, don’t suppress it. Don’t try to have prior restraint or ban it, the showing of any of these movies. Just put the warning up front, and let people see just what’s being promoted by Hollyweird. Teddy Nappen 34:33 Well, and also, Hollyweird promotes all the sexual deviancies, where they push it on children. Where you have, you know, children have access to now hardcore pornography all across the internet, thanks to YouTube. Thanks to social media. Like, the level of it’s so disingenuous. Making this argument that we need to protect our children. Except when it comes to the LGBTQAI+ in schools, when it comes to all the other things that they want to sexually groom children. But, oh, firearm content, that’s the issue. When you get down to it, this is what they want. They want the 2019, they want the Biden Administration censorship. Where, right here, out of the House Judiciary Committee where the chairman approves and shows, oh, Google was pressured by the Biden administration to censor Americans. (https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/zuckerberg-says-the-white-house-pressured-facebook-to-censor-some-covid-19-content-during-the-pandemic) Page – 10 – of 11 Evan Nappen 35:30 That’s right. This is a really good point. They went after our First Amendment rights, just like the Second Amendment, and we lived through a period of Government censorship attempts that, when you look back, it was, it’s absolutely disgusting, what they pulled and what they were able to accomplish, even in achieving it, Teddy. It’s just insane. You would never think that could happen in America, because originally, the Left was for free speech. The Free Speech Movement was the Left, and now that’s no longer the case. They want the opposite. They don’t want free speech. Oh, hell no. But it used to be part of what true liberals, not today’s progressive, totalitarian liberals want, so-called. No, the classic liberal was absolute free speech, true, and they’ve abandoned that. They’ve abandoned it. Teddy Nappen 36:41 Well, it comes back to the idea of what the Left always does. They have no moral framework. The idea of, oh, what feels good? What is the cultural shift? What is the shifting ideology currently? Where you now have these massive purity tests on the Left, and that’s why they’re in a shooting war against each other as to who controls the party. But to even highlight this fact, Mark Zuckerberg said and admitted to the White House, yeah, I was pressured by the White House to censor people during Covid, over Covid 19 content. Doctors admitting all the false information that was out there. Bring that up. Completely censored off of Facebook, off of YouTube, all these platforms. X. You remember, you remember the Twitter files. Musk is releasing them weekly, showing the insidious combination of Government and censorship on the public square. This is what the Left wants. They are so upset that they have lost their ministry of truth. You remember that push? Evan Nappen 37:51 And they want to, right, and they want to use the same techniques to oppress the Second Amendment. It’s all part of the game plan. Teddy Nappen 38:02 Yeah. Evan Nappen 38:03 Well, Teddy, I appreciate you pointing this out, and I’m sure our listeners do as well. Let me tell you, we had a three round burst for GOFUs, and we only got two of the rounds out. Let me end here with the GOFU number three. And again, we saw this in action. These are actual cases, actual realities. I had a fellow client give me a call and say, hey, they were in court and they didn’t have counsel. Their guns were taken in an allegation of a so-called domestic violence, in which everything got dismissed. But there was an outstanding criminal charge that’s unfounded and going to the court. The so-called victim does not want to proceed. Does not want to proceed. So, what does the prosecutor do? The prosecutor tells this person, look, we’re going to downgrade this to a noise ordinance. Okay? So, it’s no longer in the category of domestic violence. If it stayed in that DV category, it makes you the equivalent of a convicted felon under federal law, and you’re banned from guns. The prosecutor said this way, with it as a noise ordinance, you’re fine. You’ll be perfectly fine. This will not affect your gun rights. Page – 11 – of 11 Evan Nappen 39:52 Now, this is a person who doesn’t have a lawyer. Who’s listening to the prosecutor, who is telling them they can plead this down to an ordinance. When the State’s key witness does not want to proceed and knows that the allegations that were made were not true and knows that it needs to be dropped. So, normally, the thing is, dismiss it straight out, because the complainant, the complaining witness, is not going to be real good for your case here. Okay? We all kind of see that, and it needs to go. But instead, the prosecutor is trying to convince this person to take this ordinance and pay a fine, get an ordinance hit, and saying that it won’t affect their gun rights. Evan Nappen 41:02 Here’s the deal, folks. It does affect your gun rights. You see, when a prosecutor says it doesn’t affect gun rights, that prosecutor is not representing you. They’re representing the State. They’re representing the Government. And if you don’t have counsel to explain to you the actual ramifications and you try to believe this, you know, however well intentioned it may have been, they failed to mention here that, yeah, it’s not a per se disqualifier, meaning, like being a convicted felon or having a conviction for domestic violence, sure, where you’re just out of the box. You’re done. But the reality in New Jersey is that if you plead to even this dopey ordinance for noise, you now have a conviction for an ordinance that started out as a domestic violence charge. Then when you try to apply to get a new pistol purchase permit or renew your carry permit or do a change of address on your Firearm’s ID Card, they go, oh, public health, safety, and welfare. That’s what they’re going to use to deny your application. Public health, safety, and welfare. Based on character, temperament. You know, I call that disqualifier the all-inclusive miscellaneous weasel clause, because that’s where the abuse of discretion comes in. And if you were to fall for this, oh, plead to the ordinance, it won’t affect your gun rights. Wait and see. Because now that comes up on your record and it links to the original charges, those police reports and all. And you ended up taking a plea, which has this appearance that you were guilty of something, and that’s why you pled. It sure as hell can affect your gun rights. So, friends, the takeaway is this. The GOFU is when you’re dealing on any criminal charge, make sure you have counsel that understands the gun laws and don’t try to rely on what a prosecutor may be telling you about how your rights will or won’t be affected. Evan Nappen 43:20 This is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens. Speaker 2 43:30 Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state. Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S5 E277_Transcript About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets. Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News. As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists. He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America. 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  Episode 276-NJ’s New Felony Dingus Law  Also Available OnSearchable Podcast Transcript Gun Lawyer — Episode Transcript Page – 1 – of 14 Gun Lawyer — Episode 276 Transcript SUMMARY KEYWORDS New Jersey felony law, accidental discharge, Second Amendment, gun rights, reckless conduct, felony dingus, legal consequences, gun ownership, national reciprocity, pro-gun advocacy, government involvement, legal defense, gun laws, gun ownership statistics, gun control. SPEAKERS Evan Nappen, Teddy Nappen Evan Nappen 00:17 I’m Evan Nappen. Teddy Nappen 00:19 And I’m Teddy Nappen. Evan Nappen 00:20 And welcome to Gun Lawyer. New Jersey now officially has the felony Dingus law. That’s right, folks. It has to do with the criminalization of accidents. That’s it. They’ve been criminalized in New Jersey. Now let me explain why it’s the Dingus law. The reason I call it the Dingus law is that a number of years ago I was in Missouri. It was at the James Farm, Jesse and Frank James Farm. It was a great museum there. It’s a pretty cool place to visit if you’re into western history. You know, Jesse James and such is way up there of one of the fun topics to learn about. As a matter of fact, their famous bank robbery is still the record haul for any bank robbery in the U.S., ever. It was done by James and his gang. In terms of the amount of money stolen, in terms of the value of that money today, versus then, it is the record amount ever stolen. Evan Nappen 01:41 But the thing that’s interesting to me about what happened when I was at that museum is I’m looking at all kinds of things about historical facts about Jesse James and his life and all. I’m reading some things, and it talked about “Dingus” at certain times. You know, talking about things that were going on between him and his men. And I’m like, Dingus, who’s Dingus? So, I asked one of the museum folks there, hey, who is this Dingus that they’re talking about? He goes, oh, that’s Jesse James. What do you mean Jesse James is Dingus? Who called him, you know, Dingus and lived, right? He’s like, no, no, no, no, no. His men did. His men did. What? Why? Well, you see, Jesse was apparently playing around with his gun, practicing spinning or screwing around with it, or who knows what, and he accidentally shot two of his fingers off. It was in front of his men. He shot his fingers off, two of them, and Jesse James would never use profanity. He may have been a stone cold killer, but he would not ever use profanity. So, when he shot his two fingers off, he said, Dingus! Now, I don’t know about you, but if I shot my fingers off, I’d say something a lot more than Dingus. But I guess his men fell off their horses Page – 2 – of 14 laughing, you know, and they nicknamed him Dingus. And I guess if you were one of his men, you could bust his balls and call him Dingus and get away with it. Evan Nappen 03:36 But we call accidental discharges in my office “Dingus” cases in honor of Jesse James, of course. So, any accidental discharge is a Dingus case. Now, I once had a guy that shot himself in the hand with a Glock. And so that, of course, was a Dingus case. This was a number of years ago, and they tried to take away his firearms and his ability to be licensed under that. It wasn’t criminalized, but they did try to disenfranchise him of his gun rights. We fought it hard, and we were able to win and save his gun rights and his gun. About a year later, he shot himself in the hand again with a Sig. So, do you know what he was? He was a Double Dingus. That’s right. Evan Nappen 04:40 Anyway, this new Dingus law, and look, accidents can happen. You can drive your car and have an accident. Accidents happen. But this Dingus law that New Jersey has passed is a felony Dingus law. It now turns accidents into a New Jersey felony. A felony level offense. It’s very important that you understand this, because now it is actually law in New Jersey, and you have to know your rights. You have to stand on your rights. Or you not only risk losing your Second Amendment rights, but you also risk becoming a felon, going to State Prison, and having your life essentially destroyed over this. Because becoming a convicted felon can dramatically affect your career, and your ability to earn a living. Your existence becomes one of a second class citizen, and not just in terms of gun rights. Evan Nappen 05:52 So, I want to do a deep dive here into the felony Dingus law that New Jersey has now made law. And I want to make it clear so that you, my dear listeners, know what to do to protect yourself and hear it straight from me as to what you must do and how you must act. Because it will be difficult for some of you to do what I’m saying. It strikes to a certain degree against what might be your first reaction, but you have to do this. Otherwise the consequences can be dire. So, this new law that New Jersey passed, and it is officially law. It takes accidents and makes them felonies, accidents with firearms, into felony level offenses. And we’re going to take a look at how exactly that gets done. How the Legislature, in passing this law, has done it in such a bizarre way, or sneaky way, devious way, that the impact and reality of it is how I’m going to explain it. Evan Nappen 07:13 So, the law reads, and you can read the bill that passed. It was A4976 and was approved by Murphy as one of his parting gifts on January 20 of this year. (https://pub.njleg.state.nj.us/Bills/2024/A5000/4976_R2.PDF) It says, (1.a.) For the purposes of this act, “Recklessly” shall have the same meaning as set forth in N.J.S. 2C:2-2. Now, 2-2 is where the culpability standards for New Jersey law are laid out. Culpability is the establishment of the level of what has to be demonstrated in order to prove whether you’re culpable for the commission of that offense. These fall under the general requirements of culpability, and normally, culpability has to be proven. It’s a level of proof. Often we think of culpability as needing to show purpose fully. You do something purposefully. We do something knowingly, knowingly. But recklessly and negligently can also be culpability levels in criminal law, and New Jersey is now making “Reckless” as part of this law. Page – 3 – of 14 Evan Nappen 08:56 But reckless isn’t necessarily how you might generically think of it. It’s defined in this culpability statute as follows. So, this is where “Reckless” gets defined that they’re incorporating into the new law. (N.J.S. 2C:2-2.(3)) “Recklessly. A person acts recklessly with respect to a material element of an offense when he consciously disregards a substantial and unjustifiable risk that the material element exists or will result from his conduct. The risk must be of such a nature and degree that, considering the nature and purpose of the actor’s conduct and the circumstances known to him, its disregard involves a gross deviation from the standard of conduct that a reasonable person would observe in the actor’s situation. ‘Recklessness,’ or ‘with recklessness’, or equivalent terms have the same meaning.” Evan Nappen 10:05 Now, if you’re having trouble wrapping your head around what I just said, we’re going to get back to it. But I wanted to give you that, initially, as we go through the bill, and I’m going to show you how it translates into reality under the felony Dingus law. So, New Jersey now says “reckless” is defined as what I just told you, and then they define structure. “‘Structure’ means any building, room, ship, vessel, car, vehicle, or airplane, and also means any place adapted for overnight accommodation of persons or for carrying of business therein.” So, any business establishment, any means of transport, and any room, building or ship is a structure, okay? Now the law says a person commits, oh, a disorderly person’s offense. Oh, well, that’s not a felony, Evan. That’s a disorderly person. It’s New Jersey’s version of misdemeanor. Yeah, I know that, but let’s keep reading. Evan Nappen 11:21 Okay, folks. “A person commits a disorderly persons offense by recklessly discharging a firearm . . .” Well, you might think, why I’d never be reckless. I’d never be reckless. “. . . by recklessly discharging a firearm using live ammunition rounds . . .” So, I guess you can recklessly discharge a blank gun, but whatever. “. . . recklessly discharging a firearm using live ammunition rounds unlawfully or without a lawful purpose, except that a second conviction for such an offense constitutes a crime of the fourth degree, and a third or subsequent conviction for such an offense constitutes crime of the third degree.” So, what happens is this. It ups the degree if you have repeat offenses. Evan Nappen 12:12 So, you say, well, look, man, if I have one problem, at least it’s just a misdemeanor, and it’s not a felony. I don’t become a felony Dingus problem in my life. Well, yeah, because here’s the next part. It says, a person who commits a violation of what I just said, subsection b., technically of this section, shall be charged with a crime of one degree higher than what ordinarily would be charged for such offense, where the violation occurs within 100 yards of an occupied structure. Whoa, whoa. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. So, in other words, if you have an accidental discharge, and that AD was done without lawful purpose, well, if it’s an accidental discharge, what was your lawful purpose for having an accident? Of course, there wasn’t one. It’s baked into the cake. There’s no accident done lost with a lawful purpose. Of course not. So, every accident now, unless you can show there was a lawful purpose to your accident, okay? Every accident done, every accidental discharge without a lawful purpose, within 100 yards of any building, room, ship, vessel, car, vehicle, airplane, place of overnight accommodation or where business is conducted, within 100 yards of any of those occupied places, that Page – 4 – of 14 makes it a felony level offense. A felony level offense. So, now you have your accidental discharge. It’s done without a lawful purpose. Now the law says you have to recklessly discharge a firearm without a lawful purpose. Remember, I told you what reckless was under the law. Evan Nappen 14:24 Now, think about this. Let’s go back to that reckless. A person acts reckless with respect to a material element of the offense when he consciously disregards a substantial and unjustifiable risk that a material element will result from his conduct. Oh, conscientious disregarding a risk that you could, what? Have an accidental discharge. Meaning a discharge without a lawful purpose. And the risk must be of such a nature and degree that considering the nature and purpose of the actor’s conduct and circumstances known to him. Oh, did you know you had a gun? Yeah. Did you know that when you pull the trigger of a gun, it goes bang? Yeah. Did you happen to have ammunition? Yeah. Did you check to make sure the gun was empty? Oh, well, what’s this disregard involves a gross deviation from the standard of conduct that a reasonable person would observe in the actor’s situation. Aha. Gross deviation from standard of conduct that a reasonable person would observe. A reasonable person checks to make sure their gun is unloaded. Were you unreasonable in having that accidental discharge because you failed to ensure that your gun wasn’t loaded? Evan Nappen 16:18 Well, let me tell you who’s going to answer that question. Ultimately, my friends, 12 people who aren’t smart enough to avoid jury duty. That’s who’s going to answer it. Twelve persons who most likely don’t know a whole hell of a lot about guns. And even if they do, they’re not going to like the fact that you didn’t ensure that your gun was unloaded. So, this means that if you have an accidental discharge, a Dingus within 100 yards of any of those, “occupied structures”, which basically is virtually everywhere, you’re now looking at a felony charge, which will make you a convicted felon. It will cost you your gun rights throughout the entire United States, because you’d be a convicted felon. You will face criminal prosecution in New Jersey and loss of your guns and your gun license. Evan Nappen 17:32 So, what does this mean, folks? It means, if you ever have an accidental discharge, SHUT THE F UP!!! That’s right. You do not call the police if you had an accidental issue. You don’t incriminate yourself. You don’t talk about it to anyone. They have criminalized this. You have a Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination. They did not put any immunity in this law for reporting an accidental discharge. You not only have no obligation to report it, you have a specific Constitutional right now against doing it. Saying you have a right not to do it, because you have a right against self-incrimination. And they’ve made it what is a virtual, almost per se, strict liability, virtually, virtually, offense. At least, how in reality, it’s going to play out. If you have an accidental discharge within 100 yards of that structure and you didn’t have a lawful purpose, did you? Was it reasonable that you deviated from the standard of not ensuring that your gun was unloaded? You can see this felony Dingus problem here, and it now applies throughout New Jersey. Page – 5 – of 14 Teddy Nappen 19:15 One concern, though, Dad, is that. Does the law address, you know, malfunction? Because we’ve had plenty of stories, you know, from the both of the SIG 320 and / or various other pistols that do have, like, mechanical failures. Is that addressed in the law? Evan Nappen 19:34 It’s not addressed in the law. And, you know, maybe if it was an actual SIG problem that can be proven, that it was mechanical, that that would be a defense at law here. You know that would be something where they’re not going to hold the recklessness standard to your conscious disregard of known risk. However, New Jersey has brought a suit against SIG itself for the problem with those guns. I wouldn’t put it past the Government trying to argue that you should have known the risk because you possess a SIG that’s known to have these problems, and we’re suing them over it. And how did you not know that your gun might have this problem? I mean, who knows how extreme they’ll go? I think it is conceivably a good defense, but they’re still going to fight that. I assure you. Evan Nappen 20:37 But short of an actual mechanical defect in a gun, short of that, this law is a huge threat. It is essentially the equivalent of making, if we made every fender bender with a driver, a felony in New Jersey. You would then have a situation where you wouldn’t want to report any car accident. Because upon reporting it, you would immediately have a right against self-incrimination, and you’d be putting yourself in jeopardy of a felony. Well, this is what New Jersey has done with the felony Dingus law to New Jerseyans, and you need to know that. You’re going to have to stand firm on your rights. If you have an AD, the first thing you do is call your lawyer who understands criminal law and understands the gun laws, so that you can be advised on this. It’s critical. The risk here is great, and it will jeopardize your freedom, your livelihood, and your gun rights. You can get at least a year and a half as a maximum, if they go to just the fourth degree level with this offense. So, you’re looking at felony Dingus here. Teddy Nappen 22:13 There’s a bit of irony. When you think about this law, I imagine just go from their perspective. Just the twisted mindset of the gun rights suppressor. In this idea, they’re trying to cut down on accidental discharges, but they’re going to go hidden because of that exact issue. It kind of goes. I remember being explained once in boxing. They did a rule change where they banned rapid punching. You know, we could do, like quick jabs, but in doing so, they required you to punch with an extended arm. They’re like, oh, we’re gonna cut down on the injuries. But it did the opposite. Because people were getting punched with an extended arm, it would cause more concussions. So, it’s just that level of almost self-fulfilling prophecy. It’s not doing anything. It causes the very harm that it meant to prevent. Evan Nappen 22:59 It will. It will. Because now when you have this instead. Let’s say, if you have an accidental discharge, instead of investigating, seeing if it hits somebody or something, or where, when or what it did, you’re going to jeopardize yourself criminally. Now you have to stand on your rights. You’re going to have to just take the Fifth immediately and stand on your rights. Call your attorney. It’s completely criminalized, criminalized. And because of that, your criminal due process rights kick in. And we might, you know, Page – 6 – of 14 normally if they were smart, they would have had an immunity for reporting it. But they don’t. They don’t. There’s no immunity here. If you report it, you’re putting yourself in jeopardy, and you’re giving up your Fifth and Sixth amendment rights by so doing. It is a stupid law. It is not just a Dingus felony, a Dingus law. It is a law passed by Dinguses and signed by Dinguses. It is literally the felony Dingus law, and so aptly named. Evan Nappen 24:10 Hey, on a different subject. Real quick, I just want to mention a landmark little factoid that I think you’ll find pretty cool. The U.S. has broken the firearm ownership number of 500 million. There are over 500 million privately owned firearms in the United States. Boy, that is fantastic. (https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/us-civilian-gun-ownership-500-million/) Teddy Nappen 24:49 We need to get those numbers up. Evan Nappen 24:52 Yeah, right. We need to get those numbers up. According to the National Shooting Sports Foundation, civilian gun ownership in the U.S. has surpassed the 500 million mark, reaching an estimated 506 million firearms, and the more guns means the more impossibility of banning and seizing them. There is strength in numbers. This figure is based on Federal Manufacturing and import data compiled from 1990 through 2023 using ATF records. And the estimate accounts for firearms manufactured domestically and sold, as well as firearms imported for the commercial market. It also said that there’s continued growth with the ARs in America. Since 1990, 32 million AR-type rifles have entered circulation. 32 million ARs. Talk about being in common use. 32 million. Kind of says it all. Anyway, so we’re way up there. And it says, looking specifically, by the way, at 2023, they said a total of 13,574,653 firearms were made available to the U.S. market when imports were included. So, that was that one year, 2023, over 13 million. Handguns accounted for the majority, with 8,176,000 units, followed by 3,899,000 rifles and 1,498,000 shotguns. So, this is great news. We are definitely the land of firearms, and the Second Amendment is strong in numbers. We’ve broken the 500 million mark for U.S. gun ownership. Evan Nappen 27:23 One other quick note here that I find. A little tidbit here, and this is from militarynyi.com. Mossburg has received a new contract from the Pentagon for about $11.6 million. (https://militarnyi.com/en/news/usa-orders-mossberg-590a1-shotguns-with-custom-barrels-for-drone-interception/) It provides that they’re going to supply Mossberg 590A1 pump shotguns, which are great guns, by the way. I’m going to tell you about 590A1s in a minute. But what’s really cool about this one is that this particular shotgun is designed to combat drones. It’s made to shoot down drones. It has a 17-inch barrel with a specific configuration that’s designed for convenient placement in submarine racks. And it’s also made so that it can use special tungsten shot ammunition, tungsten shot ammo, to shoot down UAVs. And this is literally what the Government said. So, they’ve taken the 590A1s and the load, the shotgun load, is a two ounce number nine bird shot, a tungsten load. And it says it puts a large number of small tungsten pellets, creating a dense cloud ideal for hitting small targets. So, if you thought skeet shooting and trap Page – 7 – of 14 shooting was fun, how about tungsten drone shooting with Mossberg 590A1s. There you go, guys. Now we’re talking about a whole new sport. Teddy Nappen 29:28 Do you remember Amazon delivering those packages with drones? Yeah, well, trap shooting with prizes. Evan Nappen 29:37 Well, there you go. Trap shooting with prizes. But you know something about the 590A1, I gotta tell you. That’s really a great shotgun. And look, I have no financial interest in them. I just love that gun. That gun has a special thing about it when it comes to New Jersey. It is a pump shotgun, military spec shotgun. The 598 one is different from the 590 the a one has a thicker barrel, stronger receiver. It is a really tough shotgun, and it’s a pump shotgun. And because it’s a pump, it’s not semi auto. So, you can have a 590A1 in New Jersey. It can have a nine shot magazine in it. It can have a folding stock. It can have a pistol grip. It can have a bayonet lug, and they do have a bayonet lug. It can have all the whistles and bells on it and not be an assault firearm because it’s a pump shotgun. Only a semi-automatic shotgun falls under New Jersey’s assault firearm law. So, if you really want to have one of the best New Jersey legal combat shotgun with any of the fun features, then the 590A1 is unbeatable for New Jersey. And plus, when you rack that slide, any bad guy hearing that usually registers it in his pants, when you hear that racking going on. So, you should consider having one in your home defense. The 590A1, it’s a great gun. I don’t know if those tungsten loads will be available to the public or not, but this is fun stuff that I wanted to bring to your attention. Evan Nappen 31:32 Hey, let me tell you about our good friends at WeShoot. WeShoot is our gun range that Teddy and I shoot at, and we love it there. They are a fantastic range right in Lakewood, New Jersey, and they have some good specials going on. They have a Sig Sauer P365 Flux, which is the evolution of the micro-compact carry gun, now paired with the FLUX defense chassis for enhanced stability, capacity and speed in a PDW-style platform. They have a Smith & Wesson M&P 9 M2.0 Compact, which is their carry size powerhouse with a flat face trigger, aggressive grip texture, built to perform under pressure with everyday reliability. And they have a Mossberg Gold Reserve Super Sport, a competition-ready over / under, an over and under, 12 gauge with eye-catching scroll engraving, polished blue finish, and a premium walnut stock built for the clay sports game. So, these are just a few of the hot guns being highlighted by WeShoot. You should definitely check them out. Go to weshootusa.com. Evan Nappen 32:52 You can also check out Juliana. She’s fully locked in and in love with her MAC 5, showing off, the versatile fun a modern sporting rifle platform can be. So, go to WeShoot’s website – weshootusa.com. You can check out Juliana there with the MAC 5. You can also see the other great photographs that WeShoot prides themselves on. When you go to the range there, you will be very impressed. They have fantastic training, and you can get your certificate there to get your carry. You can also get all kinds of training for both beginners and experienced shooters, as well. They have top people on their staff. It is a great resource that you should take advantage of. Go to weshootusa.com and learn the best kept secret in New Jersey the WeShoot range, a fantastic place. Page – 8 – of 14 Evan Nappen 33:57 Let me also tell you about our good friends at the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. They are the stalwart defenders of our gun rights in New Jersey. New Jersey is one tough environment, as you know, and without a great group like the Association, we’d be even worse off. Can you imagine even worse? So we’re there. We’re there with the association. You need to be with us. I’m a member. You need to be a member. It is critical. They’re the ones in Trenton with a full-time paid lobbyist keeping track of the shenanigans going on there. And we’re able to make a difference. Believe it or not. We are. Plus we have the battles ongoing in the courts, and, man, I am excited for them. We have some appellate stuff going on now, an we’re going to be getting some great results. I feel it. I know it. We’ll be reporting about that and telling you all about it here on Gun Lawyer. Evan Nappen 35:00 It’s a slow climb, because the wheels turn slow. But folks, it is. It is something where I know we’re going to be successful, and the Association is there for you, fighting for your rights. Go to anjrpc.org and join today. Make sure you’re part of the solution. Join your official NRA state affiliate, the Association. You’ll get the email alerts to the legislative alerts and court results, and you’ll be on top of things. You’ll get a beautiful newsletter. The best in the state, so you’ll know what’s going on here in New Jersey, and you’ll have the resources of the Association behind you. So, go to anjrpc.org and join today. Evan Nappen 35:58 And while you’re at it, make sure you get a copy of my book, New Jersey Gun Law. It’s the Bible of New Jersey gun law. It’s over 500 pages in a question and answer format. It explains everything you need to know so you can avoid becoming a GOFU in New Jersey. And man, do you need that because New Jersey is crazy. And to not be destroyed by the state’s gun laws, and instead be able to exercise safely and legally your rights. You need my book, New Jersey Gun Law. Go to EvanNappen.com and get your copy today. When you do get your book, right down there on the front cover, make sure you scan the QR code, and you can immediately join for free, my private subscriber base. You’ll be able to access immediately the updates, which I’ll have a new update coming out very shortly here, updating the new laws, doing a comprehensive 2026 Update. You get all that for free. So, your book stays current. Go to EvanNappen.com and get your copy today. Teddy, what do you have for us today? Teddy Nappen 37:15 Well, as we know, Press Checks are always free. And look, everyone has been seeing it on the Left, where they’re all of a sudden now everyone seems to have become an expert on the Second Amendment. As you, which, every time I hear that, I think the words Second Amendment TM – trademark, because it’s their version of the Second Amendment. They never actually go into too many details. But I will say, and this is very funny. From MSN, from this writer, Adam Lynch, “‘Never seen a surge like this:’ Panicked liberals are stocking up on guns..” (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/never-seen-a-surge-like-this-panicked-liberals-are-stocking-up-on-guns/ar-AA1QuJEL) Huh! The 500 million mark is coming into play. But I love this. If you ever want to laugh, read an MSN article, because it’s just so, not just the propaganda, but the sourcing and how it works. It’s, okay. It goes. “NPR reports liberals and members of the LGBTQ community are buying guns to protect themselves as both the White House and national discourse grows increasingly hostile.” I love how Page – 9 – of 14 they cite their sources, NPR. Like NPR is a reputable source, but yeah. And I love this, a random unnamed Maryland Doctor. It just says Maryland Doctor. I’m not saying. Evan Nappen 38:40 Oh, is he related to the Maryland man? Teddy Nappen 38:43 I guess. I know. Maybe he’s from Venezuela or El Salvador. “I’m not saying that’s what’s going to happen. What I’m saying is none of this is out of the question.” In regards to, like, Trump is going to start kicking in doors on like just. And I love this. “Charles, who is black, says he bought his handgun after Trump administration did things that scared him . . .” Okay. Evan Nappen 39:15 Well, I’ll tell you what. Every gun owner is someone with a vested interest in the Second Amendment. So, good. Yeah, good. Teddy Nappen 39:24 And they decided to do interviews. They say 30 sources, unnamed, mind you. Where they’re saying NPR reports, the face of gun ownership is changing. Once perceived as the white, rural and Republican, gun clubs or trainers, Second Amendment advocates and academic researchers now say that liberals, people of color, and LGBTQ members have been buying guns and training with them since Trump’s re-election. First of all, I like how they separate people of color and Republicans when the mass. Evan Nappen 39:54 The Second Amendment is for everybody. Teddy Nappen 39:56 Yeah! Evan Nappen 39:56 It’s for everybody. Teddy Nappen 39:57 Yeah. And also they need to remember that Hispanics overwhelmingly voted for Trump and are leaning conservative. Blacks overwhelmingly, comparatively, Trump had the most vote of black Americans since dating back to Nixon. So, whenever they try to separate out and try to paint the Republican Party as racist. I always remind them of that. It’s just such stupidity on their part. But going into that, I did love this. So, Thomas Boyer, the spokesman for the San Francisco Chapter the Pink Pistols, said, “Armed gays don’t get bashed.” Evan Nappen 40:37 Right! They don’t. Page – 10 – of 14 Teddy Nappen 40:39 I know. Didn’t you actually like, did they bring you on once, the Pink Pistols? Evan Nappen 40:43 They made me an honorary life member of the Pink Pistols, believe it or not, which is fine, great. The Second Amendment is for everyone. And you know, it doesn’t matter whether someone is liberal or conservative or what their sexual preference or race is. It is all our right. All of us have this right, and we always want to be consistent. Whether or not politically I agree with anything on the Left, it doesn’t matter. In the same way that I support their right to free speech, even though I disagree with them. Rights are rights. And the point here is we can have common ground, and we’re seeing common ground. We’re actually seeing it. Because as more of the Left wants guns, that’s great. Join with us, and let’s pass laws that enhance the Second Amendment. As a matter of fact, think of it this way, folks. The anti-Second Amendment, the Second Amendment oppressors, they don’t want the Left to exercise gun rights any more than they want the right to exercise gun rights because they are anti-gun rights. We are pro-gun rights. We want all people. And every time anybody becomes a gun owner, they now get a vested interest in our Second Amendment rights. So, this creates that common ground, and that can include national reciprocity. It can include Pretti’s Law that we’ve talked about, right? It means this is an opportunity. So, don’t let the Left’s political views cloud our commitment to universal Second Amendment rights. Teddy Nappen 42:56 So, going off of that, one of the things the article cited to was a group known as, I never heard of these guys, the Liberal Gun Club. It was from this firearm instructor, David Phillips. They have 30 chapters in other, in other states. And they said their membership has grown from 2,700 in November to 4,500. So, going off of that, I actually wanted to look these guys up to understand, like, what is a Liberal Gun Club? (https://theliberalgunclub.com/) Like it just, you just, you’re going off of that. I hear those two words, and it just doesn’t sound right. And so. Evan Nappen 43:32 But, it is right. It is right. Evan Nappen 43:35 But I know why you would think it wouldn’t be. Teddy Nappen 43:35 I know. Evan Nappen 43:37 Bingo. Teddy Nappen 43:37 Yeah, exactly. And I went to their website, and this is what was funny. The common ground managers, where they go into, we are, they go into. They include and oppose the assault weapon ban as well as restriction of magazine capacity. Page – 11 – of 14 Teddy Nappen 43:37 And this view is directly related to our preference of an enforcement approach rather than regulation. Then, and what’s even funnier, the one thing that I found, the little nugget in their entire list, they are for national reciprocity. Evan Nappen 44:11 The other factor is, and I dug deeper into them, they actually spoke out against Bloomberg and the Moms Demand Action. Evan Nappen 44:11 Okay. So, look at this liberal gun group here, the Liberal Gun Club. Liberal gun group is against the assault firearm ban, against the magazine ban and pro-national reciprocity. Guess what? We’re all on the same page. This is our common ground. This is a common ground that we need to further develop. We need the pro-Second Amendment side to happily join in the same issues that we mutually support. Look, there are things we have differences about, without a doubt, okay? Most of the liberal agenda I am not, not, on board with at all, but that’s okay. Because the issue that I care most about, the issue that is my entire life’s calling and yours as well, Teddy, is the Second Amendment. And if this group is supporting what I support, then we can be together on those issues. We need to be together on those issues and not try to exclude or judge or separate anybody away because we don’t agree with the rest of their politics. I don’t care about the rest of their politics. That’s fine for us to have our differences, but this is where we’re together. And what you just said, there is great. We need more of that. Because that’s how we can finally get the rest of the Left to lay off our rights and to pass something like National Reciprocity, to quit trying to screw with us at every turn, to disenfranchise us from our gun rights. We can unite here. Evan Nappen 46:09 Even better. Teddy Nappen 46:12 Which they go into with the head president of the yet all actions they say you need to take is to donate to them. And what can they do with their donations, or, quote, unquote, saving lives and quote unquote, ending gun violence, or so they say. However, they spend, the national group spends most of their time advocacy related to gun violence focused exclusively on passing stricter gun control laws, which have already been disproven. So, they even agree that gun control fails. They actually agree it does not solve any of the issues that they actually are worried about. And they cited to a book, and this reminded me of one you brought to me once, it was “Restricting Handguns” by Don Kates. Evan Nappen 47:07 Yes! Teddy Nappen 47:08 Where it was the liberal. It was the liberal skeptics guide where, you know, liberals. Page – 12 – of 14 Evan Nappen 47:14 The Liberal skeptics speak out. Okay. Don Kates was one of my mentors when I first became a lawyer. And prior to becoming a lawyer, I was a member of the very first firearm law firm in America. It was Bennison, Kates and Hardy, and I was in the New York City law office of Bennison and Kates. I knew Don Kates and Mark Bennison, and Dave Hardy. Don Kates was out in California, and he was criminology professor. Don Kates was great guy, and he wanted to do this very thing we’re talking about here. Of cross trestling, of uniting, of making liberals see that the Second Amendment is critical for them as well as us. And so, his book “Restricting Handguns – The Liberal Skeptics Speak Out” was all about folks who you would normally think would be anti- Second Amendment and were not. (https://openlibrary.org/books/OL4408746M/Restricting_handguns) Evan Nappen 48:26 Interestingly, Mark Benson, who was the other partner, was a former president of Amnesty International. But Mark was solidly pro-Second Amendment. I mean, Kates taught criminal justice and law in California. Okay? We’re talking about folks you might normally think of on the Left, but were actually hard-core Second Amendment great pro-gun fighters. I’ll tell you. Don Kates was the first guy that I ever met that carried a firearm, regardless. He said, Second Amendment, and that’s it. And I always was impressed how much he believed in the Second Amendment. He was fantastic. And it was great experience working for that firm and being part of the very first firearm law firm in America. Of course, now firearm law is an identified area of practice, but then people had never heard of such a thing. So, Don Kates, with this book, really had a lot of impact, and to this day, it’s still being utilized and cited because the Liberal Gun Club that you talk about is the same idea. And Kate was really ahead of his time in identifying this very thing. We need to join with the other side when they are with us on our issue. Teddy Nappen 50:14 And what was really, really funny is he meant, and there was a similar book where he references a book called “Beyond Control” by Jacob Sullum. He talks about the racist roots of gun control and drug control. (https://www.beyondcontrolbook.net/) Evan Nappen 50:27 There you go. Teddy Nappen 50:28 And it’s that, it’s that inner weaving of the policies to actually put that in perspective, because everyone on the Left, like they typically, are in lockstep on this. But if we can turn this, just like with the trans issue, if we can turn this into a 90/10 issue, we could get national reciprocity. The vast majority like this. Imagine The Trace and Bloomberg having to, I just saw this, just on my feed, where they’re trying to say, don’t go out and buy firearms. Don’t, don’t kid. Telling their liberal followers, don’t go out and buy firearms, even though they’re all calling for the Second Amendment on it. It’s that level. They have so pushed. Page – 13 – of 14 Evan Nappen 51:12 They are so scared to death that, yeah, this very thing that we’re talking about here is actually happening and taking place. And we on the pro-gun side need to put out our hand of friendship to the other side when they’re with us on our issue. Because those that oppose us, the oppressors, are scared to death of it, and with good reason. This can make us win. It can get our rights back. This is the way to do it, folks. I honestly believe and have fought for this. And throughout my legal career, we’ve seen how the liberal causes so-called, whether you know, traditionally where they claim were pro-civil rights, yet they go after a single black mom. Shaneen Allen, who had a carry permit from Pennsylvania and happened to be in the Democratic People’s Republic of New Jersey, gets put through the shredder. It’s the institutionalized racism that our good friend John Petrolino has talked about and shown in the permitting system. These are the things that are out there that the Left, historically, would have been concerned with, but somehow they block it out with guns. No, no. Join. Join together. This can get our movement over the top. Evan Nappen 52:44 The other thing they can do. This will be the Midas touch. Once they see the National Reciprocity and start carrying, all of a sudden, all the things that they were supporting, Red Flag, Universal Background Check, both things are going to predominantly deny them their rights. Because I think there’s a statistic showing, I think, it’s 67 or 68% of liberals or Democrats have mental health issues which screws them out of their rights. So, this is the key to getting them to see that this is the path to victory of how to get the Second Amendment back. Then we can remove all these insane regulations. Evan Nappen 53:22 Incrementally, get to where we need to be. Well, Teddy, I appreciate it. A great, great topic. And I want to tell you about this week’s GOFU, which is, of course, the Gun Owner Fuck Up, where actual clients, actual cases, where we see the problem, and you get to learn the lesson for free. And this week’s GOFU is pretty simple. Don’t involve the police in your life unless you absolutely have to. And what I mean is this. There are mechanisms in law that are there that people have no idea how it suddenly affects your gun rights. And that includes the so- called wellness check, even domestic violence, all these things where they’re played up as extremely important. And I’m not saying they aren’t. But it makes it so that individuals that invoke any of these laws and involve the Government in your life, next thing you know, guns are being seized. Individuals are losing their rights, and they’re having to fight to get them back. Evan Nappen 54:36 Often it’s the very person that invokes the law itself. Yeah, we see this. We get cases where the person called the police to scare their partner or to just get more attention to it. But they don’t realize that gets the entire system to come down on them, taking guns and ruining lives. They have no clue of the impact once the Government gets in your life. Forget it. It’s going to be a fight. It’s the old, I think, Ronald Reagan said, you know, “We’re here from the Government. We’re here to help.” Yeah, that’s the joke, and it’s true. This is what happens. You get a wellness check done, and boom, guns are taken. You’re now fighting for your rights. We get these all the time. Look, I understand. If someone has serious problems and they need help, maybe you’ve got to do it. If you’re being abused, okay. But, you know, if it’s not something that the Government has to get involved in, do not involve the Government. Page – 14 – of 14 Evan Nappen 55:22 Over and over and over again, we get, I get the calls. I call them “the calls of regret”. The phone calls of regret. They’re GOFUs. And yet, for me to even say this, I’ll get criticized. How dare you say that? How about stopping me? We need to know call. I see the reality of it in the practice. I get the phone call of regret when you involve the Government. So, the GOFU is that be very, very careful. Very, very selective, if you ever want to put the Government in your life or a loved one’s life. Because the ramifications, particularly in the Democratic People’s Republic of New Jersey, can be very significant and can dramatically impact yours and your loved ones lives. Evan Nappen 56:47 This is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens. 56:57 Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state. Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S5 E276_Transcript About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets. Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News. As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists. He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America. 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  Episode 275-Pretti’s Law  Also Available OnSearchable Podcast Transcript Gun Lawyer — Episode Transcript Gun Lawyer — Episode 275 Transcript SUMMARY KEYWORDS Second Amendment, Minnesota protest, Firearm Policy Coalition, natural rights, government officials, political opportunity, federal law, carry rights, red flag laws, gun rights, law enforcement, public carry, constitutional rights, gun policy, political reaction. SPEAKERS Speaker 2, Speaker 1, Evan Nappen, Teddy Nappen Evan Nappen 00:18 I’m Evan Nappen. Teddy Nappen 00:20 And I’m Teddy Nappen. Evan Nappen 00:21 And welcome to Gun Lawyer. So, we’ve been following the events in Minnesota, and I’m sure you have as well. And, you know, this is troubling. It’s created quite an interesting political situation, and it’s kind of strange to see sides shifting. Yet, it appears that this may, in fact, be a political opportunity to help the Second Amendment get strengthened. Let me tell you where I’m going with this. Take a look here at the Firearm Policy Coalition’s recent statement. (https://www.firearmspolicy.org/fpc-statement-rights-are-not-privileges) I don’t know if you’re familiar with the FPC, but they do a lot of great work in litigating through the court system, Second Amendment challenges. As a national group, they do good work, and they put out a statement that I thought was very interesting. It’ll lay the groundwork as we get a little bit more into depth about where I see some potential here that should be taken, frankly, advantage of in this interesting moment in time. Evan Nappen 01:50 So, what the FPC wrote in their statement is this. “Recent events in Minnesota underscore a recurring and deeply troubling theme: Government officials and commentators treating natural rights as privileges.” Now that’s an important statement right there about treating rights as privileges. As they mentioned in the article, the Second Amendment, like the First and Fourth, is merely codification of pre-existing rights. They don’t create the rights. The Supreme Court has long recognized that the right to keep and bear arms is not a right granted by the Constitution. The Constitution simply is a guarantee of those rights and puts limits on Government, not the people. That’s why, if someone ever asked you, what rights are you given by the Constitution? The answer is none! Because those rights pre-exist the Constitution. The Constitution is there as a guarantor, guaranteeing those rights against the Government. And it puts limits on the Government to ensure that our rights stay respected. It doesn’t grant us rights. Only God granted us our rights, or natural law has granted those rights. Fundamental, fundamental natural laws. That’s what we’re talking about when it comes to actual rights. Page – 2 – of 9 Evan Nappen 03:18 So, this gets distorted politically by politicians who apparently seem to forget that. And here we end up in Minnesota, where this individual, (Alex) Pretti, came to this protest with a gun. The FPC points out that the mere presence of a firearm does not erase a person’s rights. It doesn’t turn lawful conduct into wrongdoing. It does not make someone fair game to be arrested or killed for the Government’s convenience. The Government does not get to flip the legal or moral burden. The fact that one is armed is not a license for the Government to shoot you! Nor is a right to bear arms a license for any person to use unjust force. And that is very strong and very true. This is where this situation now where Pretti ended up getting shot and killed by ICE for essentially bringing his gun to the protest. There’s a lot of dispute now over whether he used it, drew it, or whether he’s being disarmed, whether there was, I mean, there. All that’s out there. Evan Nappen 04:43 But my point isn’t whether Pretti, as a matter of fact, I don’t even support Pretti’s political view here. I’m all for ICE. I’m not. I don’t want to see our country with illegal immigrants but that’s my view. That’s my opinion. Okay, that’s fine. And Pretti had his opinion. He has a First Amendment right, and he has a Second Amendment right. The problem is reaction to the exercise of his Second Amendment right. When you take a look at what happened here, it’s somewhat disturbing that those folks that are supposed to be understanding what the Second Amendment means take an anti-Second Amendment group’s view. So, Politico had an article. It’s “Gun Rights groups blast Trump over Minnesota response”. (https://www.politico.com/news/2026/01/27/gun-rights-groups-blast-trump-over-minnesota-response-00748217) And in fact, they did. Evan Nappen 05:47 Let me show you what has happened, where the tables and the issue has turned here. It’s very interesting, because I think it presents an opportunity that we’ll get to in a moment. So, for example, this is right from the Politico article. “FBI Director Kash Patel said Sunday on Fox News. ‘You cannot bring a firearm, loaded, with multiple magazines to any sort of protest that you want. It’s that simple. You don’t have a right to break the law.’ DHS Secretary Kristi Noem said Saturday that she didn’t ‘know of any peaceful protester that shows up with a gun and ammunition rather than a sign.’ White House press secretary Karoline Leavitt said Monday that ‘any gun owner knows’ that carrying a gun raises ‘the assumption of risk and the risk of force being used against you,’ during interactions with law enforcement.” I mean, come on. What the hell is with these people there? They are feeding into the Second Amendment oppressionists with this, with this stuff. Evan Nappen 07:05 So, gun rights groups pushed back, and a number of them were particularly enraged by Bill Essayli. He’s the acting U.S. Attorney for the Central District of California, who posted, “If you approach law enforcement with a gun, there is a high likelihood they will be legally justified in shooting you.” What the “f” is he saying? Are you kidding me? If you approach law enforcement with a gun, there’s a high likelihood that they’ll be “legally justified in shooting you”. The NRA, okay? The NRA said that Essayli’s remarks were “dangerous and wrong” and called for a full investigation, instead of “making generalizations and demonizing law-abiding citizens”. That’s the NRA folks saying that now to this Page – 3 – of 9 character. Aidan Johnston, the Director of federal affairs for Gun Owners of America, called Essayli’s remarks, “absolutely unacceptable”. That’s GOA. I mean, listen this quote from Johnston. “Federal prosecutors should know better than to comment on a situation when he didn’t know all the facts, to make a judgment in a case like this, and then also, just to make a blanket statement, threatening gun owners in that way.” And Johnston is absolutely right. It’s outrageous. And yet, yeah, Teddy. Teddy Nappen 08:48 I will say, just taking a step back and looking at what they’ve kind of just put out of their reaction. You brought a gun and all the other and there’s stupid comments. What they could have said, which would have been a very easy play, is the Second Amendment isn’t your right to attack law enforcement officers. All right.? It has nothing to do with the carry. It had to do with the fact that it is agitators obstructing and attacking ICE. That would have been the very easy statement, but no. Evan Nappen 09:21 They focused just on the action and not the carry. But instead they focus on, oh, you come up to a law officer with a gun, they’re legally justified at shooting you. No, they’re not. They’re not. Unless you’re going to use it wrongly. Okay, we can all. And then the Minnesota Gun Owners Caucus chair Bryan Strawser, he said, “We can all see what is on the video” what happened, and he’s not on the side of what the Trump administration is putting out. As a matter of fact, it says, an analysis done by the Washington Post that federal agents appear to have secured Pretti’s gun moments before an agent shot him. Teddy Nappen 10:18 So, just to break it down, a little more from that which they’re ignoring. I love the mainstream media loves to ignore. They take away the first 30 seconds where it’s him getting into it with the officers, where they’re blocking traffic, where he’d been doing that all day, and the woman was also blocking traffic. The officer shoves her out of the way because they’re blocking traffic, obstruction, you know, a crime. And then he tries to be the white knight and gets in it with the officer. They’re trying to pin him down to arrest him. He’s still fighting. He’s still fighting. One of the guys sees a gun and yells, gun. He pulls the gun away. And during it’s like, I didn’t know the timing of that. It’s like only a second or so split, and you hear them shout, gun. And the guy draws his pistol and he fires, because it’s a split second. I think there is a Supreme Court case where you have to look at it from the officer’s perspective, from there. Evan Nappen 11:13 And I can understand that. But what is disturbing is the key administration officials focusing on guns and gun owners and carry, instead of on the behavior of this person, which, arguably, is the real issue, and is what is the problem. Not having the gun. And then you combine that with, for example, Gavin Newsom, who, let’s face it, you know, he’s a Second Amendment oppressionist, right? I mean, he is. But what does he say? He says, “The Trump administration does not believe in the 2nd Amendment. Good to know.” So, okay, granted, he’s an opportunist here. But he’s actually seeing, even though we don’t believe he’s sincere, of course, but who knows? He’s seeing what’s wrong with what they’re saying. Even Newsom sees what’s wrong with their saying and then takes advantage of it in that way. Look, Representative Dave Min and Rep. Mary Peltola, one is a Democrat from California and the other Page – 4 – of 9 is a Democrat from Alaska. This is from the Politico article. They also used the moment to highlight the right to carry. Here’s their quote. “Joining the gun lobby to condemn Bill Essayli was not on my bingo card but here we are, Min said on X. “Lawfully carrying a firearm is not grounds for being killed.” So, there, look at that. A Democrat, Democrat, saying that, and Newsome even pointing out the hypocrisy of it. And here we have them really taking a terrible view of gun owners and carry. Evan Nappen 13:27 If you step back from all this, I see political opportunity, and I’ll tell you why. Because what I think would be very, very good would be to propose what we would call Pretti’s law. It’d be Pretti’s law. And what Pretti’s law would do would be to create a federal, pre-emptive right to carry in public. Going directly at the legal issue, by the way, in the Woolford case, the so-called vampire rule and other forms of public carry. We need a federal law that preempts, preempts, any state from putting forward so-called “sensitive place” laws that interfere with the right to carry that the Left has acknowledged, the Left is acknowledging in their defense of Pretti. This presents an opportunity to tie in with that national reciprocity so that you have your right to keep and bear arms respected, and we push this with the Pretti situation. Evan Nappen 14:52 In other words, why is it the Left always gets to take the situation and turn it to their advantage? Well, this is an opportunity for us to use this situation to our advantage, because you can see from what we just discussed that the Left is putting out that message. The Left is putting out the pro-Second Amendment message. The Left is seeing that carry was a right, that carry was fine for this, believe it or not, white male to be carrying. I mean, we should all be in shock that the Left is defending armed white males. Wow. But here they are. So, instead of letting this moment pass, let’s grab onto it. Let’s get a federal law that can go at and preempt, wiping out, sensitive place restrictions and getting through national reciprocity. We can do both of those things in this bill, because that is a solid focus federally on carry. That’s what we’re talking about here, and that’s what this situation highlights. Now is a chance to do federal protection of our carry rights, and it’s also a chance for the Trump administration to make clear their position in support of it as well. Here’s the common ground, folks. Here’s the common ground that this demonstrated, and I hope that someone takes advantage of it. Teddy Nappen 16:40 Also, just taking a step back on the whole situation here. The one good thing about this administration that everyone can agree on is that they listen. The one thing that they, anyone can just stop and say, like you can have disagreements on different things, but they listen. They hear what the issue is. And I get the sense that Kristi Noem and Kash Patel are not 2A. They never had the 2A mindset. They never had that. You know, people always say, oh, I’m for the Second Amendment. What does that mean? What do they actually believe and stand for, for that? And I think this is a moment for them to realize and learn what that actually stands for, for the people, for us, for what that means for us. The ability to carry and defend ourselves. Where we don’t have security teams. We don’t have, you know, the full backing of the U.S. Government to protect us every single day. So, I think this is a chance for the administration to learn, and heck, they should appoint like a gun czar, a 2A Czar. Someone to advise them on these issues. If they don’t know, don’t just go to X or Truth and post it. Ask and learn, and then you can have be more informed on the issue. Page – 5 – of 9 Evan Nappen 17:55 That’s a great idea, Teddy. It would be really good for them to do it, and I’d be happy to have that role. Speaker 1 18:01 Ha, ha, ha. Wow, yeah, man. Evan Nappen 18:07 Yep, that’s good. Well. Teddy Nappen 18:09 Yeah, he’s saying, like, all right. And then also legalize all machine guns. We’re closing down the ATF. Here’s a lot of recommendations. Evan Nappen 18:17 I’ve got them, but here is one where politically, we are seeing the other side, actually seeing it our way. And that’s an opportunity that we shouldn’t lose. That’s the point of this. Well, let me tell you about our friends at WeShoot. WeShoot is a range in Lakewood. An indoor range where both Teddy and I shoot, and we love it there. WeShoot is conveniently located right off the Parkway, and they have some cool specials I want to tell you about. They have a Smith M&P 9 M2.0 Compact ready to roll. They have that. They’re also offering the M&P 9 2.0 in Metal. So, you can have your choice in metal or polymer. They have the Vortex Triumph, which is an all new optic, right? It’s pretty cool. Vortex makes some good stuff. I have some Vortex on my guns. They also have the Rost Martin RM1C, which is a striker-fired compact pistol that is really taking the gun world by storm. You should check out the Rost Martin. It’s a really good gun. Evan Nappen 19:37 And, of course, you want to check out the WeShoot girls there. They’re featuring a number of folks, including Kristina Fernicola. Go to their website. Go to weshootusa.com. You can see all these wonderful guns, and the models posing with wonderful guns. And you will be glad that you went to look at all of that. I’m sure of it. Then make sure you check out the range at WeShoot. Go down to the range there. You can get some fantastic training. They have a great pro shop right there in Lakewood, New Jersey. weshootusa.com Evan Nappen 20:26 Also, I want to mention our friends at the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. They’ve been quite busy fighting in the courts and in the legislature in Trenton. Murphy’s gone, and we did get some new laws, of course. This is a very tough environment, but they also were able to get some changes that are critical. And I was glad to see modifications, although completely stopping when the folks have all the power, is tough, but they made a big difference. We are thankful. Because without the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs, we would have no unified voice of umbrella organization of our clubs and organizations. You need to be a member of the Association. Go to ANJRPC.org and join today. You’ll get the newsletters that are the best newsletter in the state on guns. Page – 6 – of 9 You’ll see the email alerts. You’ll know everything that’s going on when it comes to our gun rights in New Jersey. anjrpc.org Evan Nappen 21:45 This is also when I shamelessly promote my book, which is New Jersey Gun Law, the Bible of New Jersey gun law. It’s over 500 pages, 120 topics, all question and answer. It’s your guidebook to not becoming a GOFU in New Jersey. And man, let me tell you, so many times people call me and it’s after the fact. I’m like if they had only read my book, oy vey. We’ll still fight and defend you, but it would have been a lot better if you never had the problem to begin with. And most of my clients would agree with that, I’m afraid. So, get your copy of my book today. Go to EvanNappen.com, EvanNappen.com, and get your copy of New Jersey Gun Law. At this moment, we have Teddy who’s going to tell us about Press Checks. What have you got for us Teddy? Teddy Nappen 22:45 Well, as you know, Press Checks are always free. One of the things I always, I am always astounded by on the Left, because they try to act like they have knowledge and understanding of guns. We know, of course, the closeted hoplosexuals like (Josh) Sugarmann, who actually does know guns, but the vast majority of them do not know guns. I always think back, Dad, to your what was the quote, unquote “firearms expert” on fixed ammunition. Evan Nappen 23:23 Oh, gosh, yeah. Experts testifying under oath that are just flat out lying. Flat out lying. Teddy Nappen 23:32 So, yeah. And here is their new term that they’re trying to push. As I always believe in going to the, going to the gun right suppressors and see what’s their latest message? What are they pushing for? The new term that they have invented is “safeguarding”. That’s their new push. This comes out of The Trace, everyone’s favorite gun rights suppressor organization, written by Fairriona Magee. (https://www.thetrace.org/2026/01/safeguard-gun-barber-red-flag-law-suicide/) Safeguarding. “Violence prevention groups and researchers have spent years working on initiatives to get firearms out of the hands of people who may pose a danger to themselves or others.” Hmm, through the risk, through extremist protection laws, known as Red Flag. Oh, yes. So, they’ve been getting so much flack about the legalized swatting that they have created. That they’ve been pushing through these insane Red Flag laws. So, I love this. While these laws have bipartisan support, oh, from a bunch of RINOs that are anti-gun and don’t believe in Second Amendment rights, but now the Second Amendment groups have launched a concerted attack on Red Flag laws in the court system. Gee, I wonder why. Evan Nappen 24:52 No due process. Teddy Nappen 24:53 Yeah, no due process. You get put in, you get locked up, you get labeled and all. Robbed. Firearms stolen and your rights and your life destroyed. Other than that. Page – 7 – of 9 Evan Nappen 25:03 Yeah. Teddy Nappen 25:04 So, in this supercharged political climate, what are the other options? Well, we have it for you. Safeguarding. The process of taking, temporarily taking, control of someone else’s guns, if they have risk of suicide or harming someone else without involving the criminal justice system. So, what does that mean? That means, okay, if you think your friend may want to hurt themselves or hurt others, just simply say, hey, man, why don’t I take your guns? Let me just keep them in my house. I think you’re going through a rough patch. I’m going to take your guns. These ideas are somewhat analogous with laws that allow people to temporarily ban themselves from buying guns. So, Dad, I’m pretty sure they just advocated for someone to commit a crime in New Jersey. Evan Nappen 25:59 In New Jersey that would be absolutely unlawful because of the other anti-gun laws that they helped push, such as Universal Background Check. So, how do you temporarily give guns to somebody when there’s no transfer of guns allowed unless you go through a dealer and go through the permitting system and go through the entire process? You can’t just say to your buddy in New Jersey, hey, let me just take your guns. No, you can’t do it. It’s got to go through a dealer. You’ve got to do all the paperwork, the NICS check, the whole bit. So, good luck with that. Good luck with that. Because if you listen to what they are telling you to do, you will be committing a felony level offense, multiple felony level offenses, in New Jersey. There is no temporary transfer. This is, in fact, officially, this week’s GOFU, Teddy. Evan Nappen 27:03 As far as I’m concerned, that’s the GOFU. Do not ever temporarily give your guns to somebody else in New Jersey, except under two very narrow circumstances. If you’re at the range, there is a law in New Jersey that allows you, only while the person’s in your presence, to let them try your gun at the range. Or if you’re hunting, and everybody’s legal and licensed and they’re there in your presence while hunting. That’s it. But that’s it. That’s the only temporary transfers allowed to adults legally. There is no provision in New Jersey that allows you to temporarily transfer your firearms or to take somebody else’s firearms temporarily because somebody might want to harm themselves, or you perceive that they’re thinking about harming themselves, or they tell you, hey, I’m thinking about harming myself. Or I would just feel better if you had my gun. Again, none of that flies in New Jersey. None of it. It is completely a violation of New Jersey gun laws. A violation of many of the laws that the gun rights oppressors have pushed to put in place in New Jersey. The reason you cannot do what they’re suggesting in New Jersey is because of their anti-Second Amendment gun laws themselves. So they pass and force the passage of these laws through their fellow comrades in the legislature and then give advice on how to violate the very laws, because they’re so clueless as to what they are doing in terms of the actual effect, the actual effect, it has on real people and the real situation. Teddy Nappen 28:59 So, I love how they end this article too. They get this expert, because they always have to. They always lean on the logical fallacy of, oh, I’m an expert, so trust me on this. Catherine Barber out of the Harvard Page – 8 – of 9 Injury Control Research Center, gee, that doesn’t sound biased. She makes this long winded argument, making it so this sounds like if you’re a gun owner, oh, you’re mentally ill, even though gun owners are more than twice at the risk of non gun owners from taking their own lives. And they equated where we should treat Red Flag like suicide prevention. Just this long winded expression, trying to make it seem like, oh, that’s right, if you own a gun, you probably have mental illness. That is the level of disgusting nature that these people are. And they try to argue that. Evan Nappen 29:56 Right. So they, so that. So, this person’s saying, if you own a gun, you’re mentally ill, and we have these administration folks and this U.S. attorney saying, essentially, if you have a gun, you’re a threat immediately to law enforcement. I mean, they’re just making these assumptions on both sides that are just strictly out of bounds when we’re talking about a Constitutional right, a Constitutional right. I mean, just make believe it’s the First Amendment instead of the Second Amendment. Anyone that freely speaks their mind is mentally ill. Anybody who freely talks to police is justified in being shot, and that doesn’t. Neither those statements make any sense, right? Evan Nappen 30:44 Well, we’re talking the Second Amendment. That’s a Constitutional right. It’s not a second class right, either. Just like the First Amendment is a right, and this right is supposed to be guaranteed by the Government. Guaranteed by the Government. Not given by the Government. It needs to get respected and put in the proper perspective of being treated as a right. It’s not a mental illness. It’s not a threat to law enforcement, intrinsically a threat. This all is based on the individual’s behavior. That’s the point, and that’s what the focus has to be on. But yet it’s so easy to just look at it as a symbol, the symbol. Americans always had this thing about going after the symbols. I mean, why were switchblades banned in the ’50s? Well, they were the symbol of juvenile delinquency, right? I mean, what? Why were machine guns banned, oh, the symbol. It was symbolism. It’s just this constant moral crusade by picking an item, an item to go after. We need to look at actions of people. What is not malum prohibitums, where a legislative body just decides this should be banned or that should be banned. But instead, we focus on the malum and say things that are wrong within themselves, and those things are the actions and wrongdoings by people. That’s where laws have to focus. Teddy Nappen 32:41 I think it definitely needs to be a wake up call. Because, look, I understand, and hopefully we do get common ground. And you know what, if Pretti’s law comes into play and we get enough the Democrats to jump on because they want to, you know, look like they’re 2A affiliates or whatever, which, by the way, anytime you hear the news, the CNN, MSNBC, use the words 2A or democracy. You look at the little end, it’ll say, TM, trademark. It’s their version of the Second Amendment, their version of democracy. That is what they always argue. It’s rules for thee, not from rules for thee, not for me. That is how the Left operate. So, just remember that every time they’re trying to coax the Left, the right against the administration. Evan Nappen 33:30 Well, Pretti’s law will have an interesting effect, because it’ll put the Left on the spot, on the vote. Do you support being able to carry a firearm in public the way he did, where you’re claiming to? Well now Page – 9 – of 9 you’re going to have to put your money where your mouth is. So, to speak, you have to vote. You better vote, I think. And within the same question, wait gets made to the other side. Do you support the Second Amendment or not? So, this is why, politically, it’s an opportunity. Teddy Nappen 34:05 I think we joked that Trump should come out against carry, which would force the Left. Like, I think we joked about that exact thing there. You’re right. He should come out against machine guns. Evan Nappen 34:19 Yeah, absolutely. Okay, because actually, the next thing you know, you’ve got Newsom putting out and Democrat Congresspersons putting out, pro-gun statements, pro-Second Amendment statements. I mean, it’s well, that’s why it’s opportunity time, and hopefully someone will take advantage of it. Evan Nappen 34:48 Well, this is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens. Speaker 2 35:01 Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state. Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S5 E275_Transcript About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets. Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News. As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists. He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America. Email Evan Your Comments and Questions  [email protected] Join Evan’s InnerCircleHere’s your chance to join an elite group of the Savviest gun and knife owners in America.  Membership is totally FREE and Strictly CONFIDENTIAL.  Just enter your email to start receiving insider news, tips, and other valuable membership benefits.   Email (required) *First Name *Select list(s) to subscribe toInnerCircle Membership Yes, I would like to receive emails from Gun Lawyer Podcast. (You can unsubscribe anytime)Constant Contact Use. Please leave this field blank.var ajaxurl = "https://gun.lawyer/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php";

  Episode 274- State Police RPO Cover-Up  Also Available OnSearchable Podcast Transcript Gun Lawyer — Episode Transcript Gun Lawyer Transcript – Episode 274 SPEAKERS Teddy Nappen, Evan Nappen, Speaker 2 Evan Nappen 00:17 I’m Evan Nappen. Teddy Nappen 00:19 and I’m Teddy Nappen. Evan Nappen 00:21 And welcome to Gun Lawyer. So, our good friend, John Petrolino, who writes about many, many important topics, particularly as well concerning New Jersey, has an article that was in Bearing Arms. And I want to talk about what he’s raised here. The article’s title is “New Jersey State Police Tight Lipped Over Retired Police Permits”. (https://bearingarms.com/john-petrolino/2026/01/21/new-jersey-statepolice-tight-lipped-over-retired-police-permits-n1231288) So, what John has done is he’s used the New Jersey form of OPRA (Open Public Records Act), the Freedom of Information Act, asking the authorities in New Jersey for the number of permits issued to retired police officers. Evan Nappen 01:15 You may recall the then Attorney General Platkin did put up that dashboard and released the data of public statistics regarding carry permits, the number of permits issued. There’s been over 92,000 approved applications for carry permits in New Jersey, and of those approvals, 64,000 are non-expired permits. Now it’s interesting that the State puts out that data, but they don’t put out the data as to the RPO permits. The Retired Police Officer permits, and we want to find out how many folks carry that are not law enforcement, right? That are civilian. And let’s face it, Retired Police Officers are still civilians, even though they were formerly law enforcement. Originally carry was outside of being law enforcement and outside of New Jersey’s insane carry permit system back then, where you had to show “justifiable need”, which, as you may recall, meant showing of urgent necessity. This meant showing that a gun was necessary for you to defend yourself from death or serious bodily injury and that carrying a handgun was the only means that could do it. I mean, it was a standard that was so extreme that basically, if you’ve been shot and killed, you then qualified for a New Jersey carry permit. Evan Nappen 03:08 Now that went away thanks to the Bruen decision, and New Jersey jumped from less than 600 carry permits to now 64,000 valid permits and 92,000 valid, approved permits. But it does not include the RPOs. Now, RPOs had the ability to carry before Bruen, and during that time period when regular old civilians who weren’t retired law enforcement could not defend themselves with a firearm and carry in that manner, right? They were deemed to have to be victims instead of defenders. But now, for some reason, the State Police and such will not release the number of RPO permits. We’re not asking for names. John went forward here, and he didn’t ask for names. He didn’t ask for anything. He just wants to know how many? How many of the RPO permits are out there as well. This should be looked at in the aggregate with all the other carry permits that are out there, and yet that doesn’t happen. Page of 1 8 Evan Nappen 04:25 In December of 2025, John sent a request for the number of RPO permits, and it was denied. And the request was denied weirdly and strangely for reasons that just don’t make any sense. And I’m going to tell you. It makes you wonder, why is there a cover up? The reason they denied it, the reason the State Police have put in writing for the denial. Well, get a load of this. “Improper and Overbroad” was the main reason. Can you believe that the information is supposedly improper and overbroad? Why would wanting to know a statistical fact such as the number of RBO permits be considered overbroad? And why would it be considered in any way improper? It is strictly information. It is based on a record. It absolutely should be released. Evan Nappen 05:52 How come they are releasing the numbers for civilian carry permits, right? The 92,000. How come that’s not “improper and overbroad”? No, the Attorney General does it. Go ahead. Why? Tell me. Why do you think? Teddy Nappen 06:10 So, going back to because John also, if I recall, broke the story about denials where, what was it? Blacks were five times more likely to be denied to their carry. Evan Nappen 06:22 Yes, institutionalized racism. That exists in New Jersey. Teddy Nappen 06:31 So, add into the fact that you have the, well, here’s the trick. The Left have always been anti-police. That is a fact. They were the ones that wanted to defund the police. They were the ones for that. So, now we have the first factor of showing the absolute racism of the gun laws. But also the fact that they were supporting the only carry which, by the way, how much you want to bet they were all for the RPOs under all the Democrat Governors who allowed those carries to come into play. How much of that look, if it shows that there’s this massive amount of RPOs being issued. And because the Left are Marxists who absolutely hate police and hate law and order, this would make them look like absolute elitists and hypocrites. Evan Nappen 07:19 So, the fear is that, arguably, in the defund the police mentality, that if retired police are being armed, they don’t want any police armed, even if they’re retired, because of the perceived threat that they put out there that law enforcement creates toward minorities. In their view, not in my view. Not in my view. It’s the opposite. I mean, the fact is, they’re out there as protectors, defenders of the good people of our State. Every retired officer is somebody who’s not only armed, but also is experienced in armed defense, having served as a law enforcement officer. They’re a resource. They’re a positive benefit to our society. Yet, they’re probably scared of the politics. I mean, why else? What? There’s nothing about it that makes it “improper”. And it sure isn’t “overbroad”. It would be overbroad, maybe, if you want to know the name and address and Dox every carry RPO that’s out there. That’s not being requested. We just want the damn number. How many RPO carry permits? Teddy Nappen 08:41 Page of 2 8 It honestly reminds me, Dad, of that poster you had hung up. It was the joke where it shows if the Left could rewrite the Second Amendment. And I think, and I remember, you remember that. They crossed out, remember, they crossed out militia. And it says, like, military and police, employed police only. We’re kind of that logic where like, well, they’re not in the service, so why should they be armed? Not because there’s massive doxing websites, and that’s why ICE has to have their mask on for that exact reason. But. Evan Nappen 09:17 Exactly. Well, the fight is still ongoing and the question is raised. Why not just give us the number so we all know? And I would like to see a huge number of RPOs. I hope there’s lots of them out there. The more trained law-abiding folks that have firearms, the safer we are. And retired police are perfect in that regard. That’s exactly what we want to see. So, whatever their basis is, it just creates more of a conspiracy, and it just politicizes it so unnecessarily. It’s ridiculous. Release the number. Let us know. Let’s join in showing how many armed folks are out there. Maybe that’s another reason. They’re afraid that if that number, you know is even more, now, more and more people are carrying and suddenly the BITS argument they love to make right? Blood In The Streets. BITS. There’ll be blood in the streets with civilian carry, you know. No, it didn’t happen. And it’ll be the Wild West. It’s not the Wild West. And look at how many folks have carries when you combine the numbers. Maybe they’re afraid of that political aspect. But, you know, we have a right to know these numbers. It’s not a secret. It’s not improper. It’s not overbroad. Just let us know, and we deal with the facts. Evan Nappen 10:47 I also want to bring a couple very interesting things out that I’ve recently learned about. An important one here is the old “Bang or Bong – You can’t have both”. Well, shortly, at least a greater degree, you may be able to have both because President Trump, through his administration, folks, keep that in mind. Through the Trump administration, they have proposed, through ATF, revision of their regulation concerning the interpretation of what a “user of drugs” as a disqualifier, what it means. You know, for almost 30 years, ATF has said they treat even a single incident, a single past admission of marijuana use, or a failed drug test, or one misdemeanor marijuana conviction as evidence of a person being an unlawful user. They have now put forward an administrative reg that when it becomes finalized, which should be happening within the next few months, it will make it so that those things no longer will be deeming a person “an unlawful user”. And this should be of great help. Evan Nappen 12:25 From an article in AmmoLand, written by Dean Weingarten, which is entitled “ATF Finally Admits: One-time Drug Use Isn’t Grounds to Strip Gun Rights.” (https://www.ammoland.com/2026/01/atf-finally-admitsone-time-drug-use-isnt-grounds-to-strip-gun-rights/) It makes it really interesting here regarding that. In 2025, NICS denied 9,163 firearm transfers under the “unlawful user” category, okay? So, in other words, denials, denials of over 9,000 transfers, more than half of those denials, more than half, were single-incident drug inferences. Well, under this rule, those will no longer be denials. That’s over what? Four thousand people that will not be denied their gun rights, just in that one year, no less. Of people being denied over this nonsense. And furthermore, in this article, ATF admitted that 8,893 cases, it declined to investigate, prosecute, or retrieve firearms because of a single-drug incident. So, they’re denying individuals and not prosecuting. Yet, they’re using it as a base for denial. So, finally, we’re getting a reg of common sense that clears it up. Evan Nappen 14:05 Page of 3 8 And it even, to me, appears to go further. Now this may take a little bit more analysis, but in my reading of the reg, and I’m going to have to see how it pans out, it also talks about those that use drugs that are lawfully prescribed. That becomes an exemption. I’m going to be looking further into whether this reg also directly impacts individuals with a medical marijuana card. Because if it’s prescribed and it’s legal in the state and it’s by a lawful prescription, then maybe that, too, gets covered by this new regulation. It remains to be seen, but it sure seems like it. So, this is good. It progress in the right direction of helping protect our gun rights. And, of course, it’s happening under the Trump administration. It didn’t, this didn’t happen under, you know, the senile sock puppets for years. This is Trump, and yet it’s in the area of marijuana. I mean, oddly, it’s going to essentially remove what got Hunter Biden in trouble, you know. Now, of course, I don’t think he had a single individual use, but still. It’s that disqualifier that’s being addressed by the Trump administration. Evan Nappen 15:40 I also want to point out something that caught my attention, and I think it is just great when something illustrates the absurdity of the gun laws. As you know, we’re fighting over with the big, beautiful lawsuit with NFA over suppressors. Of course, there’s no more $200 tax, which is nice, and they have made it much more efficient online to be able to get federally registered through the National Firearm Act, when acquiring suppressors. And I appreciate the progress, but we all know that there shouldn’t be any NFA at all. It shouldn’t exist. There should be no registration of suppressors or silencers. And it’s so stupid the way silencers are regulated. And I just love this. Apparently, this fellow here, regarding the National Association for Gun Rights, registered a potato as a suppressor. That’s right, a potato. (https:// www.facebook.com/share/v/1Aadb9chUS/) It’s the classic potato silencer that they used to be, mythologically, I guess, accredited to the IRA even. A potato on the end of a gun will act as a suppressor, and to a certain degree, it does. So, he registered a potato, an actual potato, as a suppressor, and then proceeded to utilize it. The only problem with the potato silencer is it’s good for about one shot, and then you end up with a lot of mashed potatoes after you use it. But there you go. They did, in fact, register the potato as a silencer. Teddy Nappen 17:31 There’s a slang term for it, too it’s called a Paddy can. Evan Nappen 17:35 There you go. A Paddy can. Well, he registered a Paddy can. And you know, ATF, also, in the past, registered a shoelace as a machine gun, because you could wrap it around the trigger and the bolt. Then you could do a quasi bump fire deal with it. So, there is a bona fide, if you go on the internet, see a bona fide ATF registered shoelace as a machine gun. We have potatoes as silencers, and I think it illustrates just how stupid the NFA is. Evan Nappen 18:07 Hey, let me tell you about our friends at WeShoot. WeShoot, as you know, is a range where Teddy and I both shoot, and they have been lately featuring some biographies of their instructors. You see, WeShoot has fantastic instructors, and one of their instructors that they’ve taken a focus on is Todd Friedman. Now, their instructors are fantastic and Lieutenant Todd (Retired) is an elite tactical instructor at WeShoot. He has over 25 years experience with the Ocean County Prosecutor’s Office. And he didn’t just serve there. He commanded. He was Special Operations Group, Range Master, PTC Certified Range Instructor. His training and background is really something. He’s completed all the advanced coursework and tactical shot sub gun, tactical rifle, tactical narcotics operations. He is an amazing guy, Page of 4 8 and this is just one of the many fantastic instructors at WeShoot. WeShoot is the place to go. Todd, by the way, also served as a Sergeant First Class in the New Jersey National Guard and supporting the prestigious 82nd Airborne Division. So, this is the kind of guy you want training you, you know, and we shoot has these fantastic trainers. You can take advantage of this by belonging to WeShoot. You can take these courses and really, really learn and hone your skills. You need to check out WeShoot at weshootusa.com, weshootusa.com. It’s a beautiful range right there in Lakewood, conveniently located easy to get to, right off the Parkway, right there in Central Jersey. You have this fantastic resource of a range. So, make sure you check out WeShoot. Evan Nappen 20:24 And of course, our friends at the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs have been very busy. They’ve been battling in the courts. We should see some more progress there, and I’ll be reporting on that. They’ve been keeping an eye on what’s going on in Trenton and letting us know about these fights we’re fighting. We’ve made an impact. We’ve made an impact. But man, it is a tough slog. And without the Association, we would be even worse. So, make sure that you join the ANJRPC.org, the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol clubs. anjrpc.org. They are the premier gun rights group in New Jersey. You need to be a member. You’ll get the email alerts, and you’ll stay on top of what is going on in the crazy state of New Jersey, where the fun just never ends when it comes to oppression of our rights and the fight for our liberties. Evan Nappen 21:22 And by the way, this is where I shamelessly promote my book New Jersey Gun Law, which is the Bible of New Jersey gun law. You’ve got to get a copy. Go to EvanNappen.com. It’s over 500 pages, 120 topics, all question and answer. It is the book used by everybody, and the only book that describes and explains the complex matrix of insanity called New Jersey gun law. Get your copy today. Go to EvanNappen.com. When you get it, scan the front cover. Make sure you get on my private subscriber base, where you can immediately access the archives for any updates. A new update will be coming out very shortly, the 2026 Comprehensive Update of these new laws that Murphy gave us as his farewell present. I’ll be talking about those and explaining those soon. Get your copy today and join in with the subscriber base, which is free, which is free, by the way. So, that your book stays current, and you’ll know what’s going on and be able to keep yourself from becoming a GOFU. Evan Nappen 22:35 Teddy, what do you have for us today? Teddy Nappen 22:38 Well, as you know, Press Checks are always free. And I want to remind everyone that the Democrats and the Left are, in fact, the real racists. No matter. They do not care what bounds they have to do. They don’t care about what lines they have to cross. They hate you, and they want to take away your rights. You know. Evan Nappen 23:06 Well, Teddy, historically, historically the KKK were Southern Democrats. That was a KKK. The Democrats. Teddy Nappen 23:15 Yep, and apparently. Page of 5 8 Evan Nappen 23:16 Well, it hasn’t changed, apparently. Go ahead. Teddy Nappen 23:19 Well, even better, they’re getting back to their roots. We had previously discussed how the they tried to do that whole argument against Bruen and even citing to like, you know, all the racist laws that would deny blacks their rights to carry and ability to possess firearms. Well, sure enough, from The Daily Caller by Harold Hutchinson. Justice Jackson defends Jim Crow laws during Second Amendment case hearing. (https://dailycaller.com/2026/01/20/ketanji-brown-jackson-jim-crow-law-during-2a-case-argument/) If you have that on your bingo card today, you win. So. Evan Nappen 23:59 Your bingo card is Judge Jackson defends Jim Crow racist Black Codes. Teddy Nappen 24:05 Black Code. Specifically Black Codes. Yes, yes. So, this is about the Hawaii challenge. Remember, they’re trying to attack Bruen. And this is our opportunity to really strengthen and end that insanity. Evan Nappen 24:20 Your talking about the Wolford case. Teddy Nappen 24:20 Correct. Evan Nappen 24:22 About sensitive places. Which is very important. That can have great impact on New Jersey, too. Teddy Nappen 24:28 Oh, we’re all very too familiar about the various sensitive places in New Jersey. But this was the part that caught me. During the forum, where the justices are allowed to ask questions and probe the issues of the facts of the case of the law. So, Justice Jackson then turned and decided to go on and say. I just laugh every time I read it. So, I guess I really don’t understand your response to Justice Gorsuch on the Black Codes. I mean, I thought the Black Code, this is Jackson, were being offered under the Bruen test to determine the Constitutionality of this regulation, and that, because we have a test, and that asks us to look at the history and tradition, the fact that the Black Codes were at some point determined themselves unconstitutional, it doesn’t seem to me to be relevant to the assessment that Bruen is asking us for anyway. So, can you say more about that? So to. Evan Nappen 25:35 Do you believe this person is a justice? Teddy Nappen 25:40 Well, I can, I can believe it, because Biden said it himself. He was going to appoint a black woman and regardless of that. So, just take a step back though. Let’s unpack that line right there. It’s not relevant to the fact the laws were found unconstitutional, not relevant to the fact of the constitutionality of the Second Amendment and the and the fact that you are citing, and this is the war on Bruen they are Page of 6 8 making, where they try to say history, text and tradition. Where does history begin? Well, to the Left, apparently, the history begins in the 1860s where you have the various Black Codes and racist gun laws, but you know, to us with the, you know, traditionalists and go and have a little bit further knowledge of history, go back to the very foundation of our country and when the Second Amendment was born. And not only that, this shows you the degree that they hate us and hate guns and are willing to pursue a second amendment oppression agenda, even to the degree that they will utilize unconstitutional purely racist laws of the past to justify prohibitions now that are themselves we can show utilizing institutionalized racism in their enforcement, no less. I mean, they don’t care, as long as they can get the guns and take away the rights. So what if they have to be on the side of racism? That’s fine with them there. Teddy Nappen 27:28 Well, and here’s the reason why I pulled from The Trace where, you know, they absolutely loathe Bruen. This is why they hate it, and this is why they don’t care where length they have to go they cite in. This is from The Trace. (https://www.thetrace.org/projects/bruen-tracker-supreme-court-gun-laws/) 1100 plus. The number of people with felony convictions have used Bruen to challenge the ban on the possession of guns. So, in other words, people that were lawful possession and have unconstitutional laws currently putting them in jail? Oh, now there’s a hammer that is Bruen that can actually help them defend themselves and not be prosecuted. Amazing. Well. And it goes back to race, because blacks are six to one felons to whites, and what is the left pushing? Oh, the disqualifier of a felon, you are sure, because it gets a racial discrimination. It’s six to one again, always pushing the one side of their mouth, claiming to fight for civil rights. Teddy Nappen 28:37 And yet, when it really comes down to the truest of civil rights, they immediately sell it out to pursue a second amendment oppression agenda, yeah, and also the fact they highlight, they highlight this rate of 48% of Republican appointed judges have struck down various gun laws under Bruen, as opposed to the 13 Democrat appointees. So there is political bias for that, you where they’re actually applying the law versus them ignoring the Constitution. But you know, that’s a separate but this is something I want to highlight to everyone. The fact is, if the Left ever take power back, and James Carville has said this, they will pack the court. He said, we’re going to pack the court. We’re going to make a gonna make Puerto Rico a state like everything they can to maintain power. Teddy Nappen 29:30 What are they going to do when they pack the court? Go ahead and read the dissenting of Bruen. I pulled the line right here from buyers, which all of them agree with buyers on this. They refuse, when considering the SEC refuse to consider government interests and just and the challenge to gun regulations regarding the compelling interest to be, in our view, when the court interprets the Second Amendment, it is constitutionally proper and in often necessary. Necessary to consider the serious danger and consequences of gun violence that lead states to regulate when you when they consider gun laws, they have to factor in the gun violence. You know, the propaganda they promote, race manufacturers on a daily basis, by the way, right? That’s what they have to consider when exercising. So whenever you want to exercise the First Amendment, always consider the hate speech. This is why Reagan said, you know, freedom is only what one generation away from being lost. You know, paraphrasing, but that’s what it means. If they get power, they get total power. We’re in for it, so be vigilant, folks. Make sure you vote. Make sure you do your part in our republic, in defending our rights. Page of 7 8 Evan Nappen 30:55 Hey, let me tell you about this week’s GOFU, which is the Gun Owner Fuck Up. We always like to talk about GOFUs, because these are expensive lessons, real cases, real individuals have learned. And I don’t want you, my listeners, to have to repeat these mistakes. And this one is, this comes up at any number of cases, even just this week. And here’s the bottom line on this GOFU, folks. Know what you have. Let me tell you what I mean by that. I get cases all the time where people end up with their property seized and their house gets searched. Now you may say, well, no one has searched my house. Yeah, except it’s so easy in New Jersey to have that happen. All it takes is just some allegation by any party. You don’t even get a chance to say anything till afterwards. After they do the search that red flags you, or puts an unjustified restraining order on you, or just your house has a fire, and the firemen come in there. We’ve seen this happen so many times, so many ways, and something gets discovered that you didn’t even remember that you had. Evan Nappen 32:17 Because remember, New Jersey has turned things into crimes where there was no grandfathering. If you had old magazines that held over 10 rounds, in other words, you could even if you complied with Florio way back in the day and made sure your mags only held 15. Well, if you’ve got 15 round Florio mags, you’ve got felony charges on your hands. Even though they were made compliant way back. Because now it’s 10. That’s just one example. If you have firearm that became non-compliant under New Jersey law and didn’t realize it, there’s just a multitude of things that New Jersey can screw you over with. Please make sure you know what you have and not have anything that you shouldn’t. Because it’s so easy to have boxes of accessories, boxes and you know, lo and behold, what’s in it? An old bump stock or an old large capacity magazine or a trigger crank, or any of the things that were legal, but then New Jersey unilaterally decided it is intrinsically evil and must be turned into felonies for possession. So, folks, know what you have. Evan Nappen 33:37 This is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens. Speaker 2 33:48 Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state. Page of 8 8 Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S5 E274_Transcript About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets. Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News. As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists. He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America. Email Evan Your Comments and Questions  [email protected] Join Evan’s InnerCircleHere’s your chance to join an elite group of the Savviest gun and knife owners in America.  Membership is totally FREE and Strictly CONFIDENTIAL.  Just enter your email to start receiving insider news, tips, and other valuable membership benefits.   Email (required) *First Name *Select list(s) to subscribe toInnerCircle Membership Yes, I would like to receive emails from Gun Lawyer Podcast. (You can unsubscribe anytime)Constant Contact Use. Please leave this field blank.var ajaxurl = "https://gun.lawyer/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php";

  Episode 273-Warning: Critical Gun Law Alert  Also Available OnSearchable Podcast Transcript Gun Lawyer — Episode Transcript Gun Lawyer — Episode 273 Transcript SUMMARY KEYWORDS New Jersey gun laws, accidental discharge, criminalization, reckless discharge, felony consequences, gun ownership rights, self-defense, insurance coverage, Second Amendment, gun safety, gun dealers, international disarmament, gun control, gun owner education, legal challenges. SPEAKERS Speaker 2, Evan Nappen, Teddy Nappen Evan Nappen 00:17 I’m Evan Nappen. Teddy Nappen 00:19 And I’m Teddy Nappen. Evan Nappen 00:20 And welcome to Gun Lawyer. Well, folks, the New Jersey legislature has done it again. They have passed some atrocious gun laws, and I need to make all of you aware of one, particularly, that is very much a threat. It is something that’s going to affect many, many gun owners, and it is not being talked about in the general media, of course, because of how they write these laws in such a sneaky, underhanded way. But this law is going to impact all of us, frankly. And the potential is there, under this law, to not only take away gun owners’ rights to have guns, but to turn us all into felons at any time, simply based on an accident. That’s right, an accident. Evan Nappen 01:31 Because what New Jersey legislature’s both houses have passed, and I expect, very shortly, the governor will sign, is Assembly Bill, 4976. (https://pub.njleg.gov/Bills/2024/A5000/4976_R2.PDF) And what this bill does is it criminalizes Accidental Discharges (ADs). Now, an accidental discharge is when your gun goes off, accidentally, either by what some folks call an uncommanded discharge or an accidental discharge. But it is something that can happen, and although we have to always be very careful, circumstances can be such that a mistake can be made. I mean, we’re all human, and mistakes can happen. And unfortunately, you know, I see it in the practice, and I get accidental discharge cases all the time where individuals make a mistake and a gun goes off unintended. It happens. Now sometimes it happens because of the actual mechanical flaws to a firearm and that can be because of a gun’s design. It can even be due to circumstances where a firearm can go off from the slightest touch. Evan Nappen 03:08 Now you may not be aware of this, but years and years ago, I know of a case where an individual had a shotgun that this fellow had kept loaded. One of those single shot, top-breaker type shotguns. You know, like the old kind of like the toppers, the H and R Toppers, and what have you, similar to that. It Page – 1 – of 11may even have been one. I don’t know. But it’s one of those old single shot shotguns. And for probably 50 years, that gun had remained loaded with a shell in it. At one point, there were folks that were causing all kinds of problems in this guy’s yard, and he wanted to scare them off. He didn’t want to shoot them, and he put the gun out of, pointed the gun out the window, and boom. It went off, and he never pulled the trigger. He absolutely never pulled the trigger. There was no hit to the primer of the shell when it went off. And what has happened was, in this particular design of the gun, the firing pin had been pushing against the primer because the hammer was down and it didn’t have a firing pin block. And for like 50 years, this gun sat there, sensitizing the primer so that the slightest touch, you know, just the right jolt, without having to actually pull the trigger, made it go off. So, a gun can actually even do that under those extraordinary circumstances. Evan Nappen 04:57 But normally, an accidental discharge or uncommanded discharge that we encounter is because somebody believed, honestly believed, their gun was unloaded. And it ends up, of course, that it wasn’t. Now this can happen because somebody thought they checked it and maybe even did check. But then, with a magazine in and the slide going forward, a round loads, but they didn’t realize that it loaded, because they checked that it was unloaded. And sure enough, there’s a round there. I mean, I’ve seen every combination of error that could happen and a discharge can occur. And, of course, we know the rules, always point in a safe direction, etc. Make sure your gun is unloaded. Double, triple check to make sure that the chamber is empty. That there’s no magazine, and there’s no live ammo. I mean, all those things that we do. But accidents can happen, just like in a motor vehicle. We drive as safe as we possibly can, but people still have accidents. And what New Jersey has done in this bill is essentially criminalize an accident so that individuals will be looking at what is, in all likelihood, felony level charges. And they structured this bill in just a sneaky, evil, devious way. It’s going to have great impact, and it’s going to create, I think, unintended consequences. Evan Nappen 06:40 Now, as gun owners, we have to understand how we have to behave if any of us ever are so unfortunate as to have an uncommanded or accidental discharge. So, the law talks about “recklessly” having a discharge. “Reckless” in criminal law means, you know, with a conscious disregard of a known risk, okay? Criminal laws can have recklessly or reckless as a standard, as opposed to something being intentional, right? So, if you intentionally meant to pull the trigger, that’s intentional. Reckless could still be you didn’t intend to do it. But if there was that conscious disregard of that known risk and it ended up discharged, then you could argue that it’s reckless. So, reckless is kind of a standard where it’s not that traditional mens rea, your mental and your mental state of having that intention to have the gun fire. Reckless has been in our criminal law for a long time, and reckless conduct is something that’s out there, like reckless driving. I’m sure that you have heard of that. Evan Nappen 08:05 But what they’re doing here is even more devious by using the word “reckless”. So, what now is being prohibited? And I’m going to read this to you so you can see how they’ve done this. It says, a person commits a disorderly person’s offense. Now that sounds like, okay. A disorderly persons offense in New Jersey is equivalent to a misdemeanor. It’s not a felony. So, you’re saying, well, first of all, this is not creating a felony. It’s creating a disorderly persons offense, right? It sounds like it’s, you know, Page – 2 – of 11apparently, trying to be reasonable. But trust me, folks, it isn’t. I’m going to show you why. “A person commits a disorderly persons offense by recklessly discharging a firearm.” Okay, so at this point they’re saying, well, it’s just a low level offense, and it’s for recklessly discharge. You know, we’ve conscientiously disregarded a known risk. Okay, so it started out sounding, you know, not great, but okay. It’s not. It shouldn’t affect a lot of folks, and luckily, if it does, it’s still a misdemeanor. And, of course, it requires that recklessness. So, that sounds all good. Evan Nappen 09:22 Let me start again and read you, but wait until you hear the rest of it. A person commits a disorderly persons offense by recklessly discharging a firearm “using live ammunition rounds”. Well, okay, that’s good to know. A blank gun isn’t a reckless discharge, but you know you’re firing a blank. No live ammo. Okay. So, if I’m firing dead ammo or ammo that’s not live, then that’s not a reckless discharge. Well, good. How do I get a discharge with ammo that’s not live? I don’t know how that’s even going to happen. But okay, they throw that in, probably more as subterfuge and, you know, smoke and mirrors. But again, here we go. “A person commits a disorderly persons offense by recklessly discharging a firearm using live ammunition rounds unlawfully . . .” Okay, unlawfully. So, you’re unlawful. “. . . or without a lawful purpose.” Whoops, wait a minute. “Without a lawful purpose.” You commit a disorderly persons offense by recklessly discharging a firearm without lawful purpose. Evan Nappen 10:35 Except that a second conviction for such an offense constitutes a crime of the fourth degree. Well, a crime is a felony, and that’s a fourth degree. It’s a year and a half in jail. And a third or subsequent conviction is a third degree and that’s five years in State Prison. Okay. So, you may even read this part and say, well, it’s still arguably, weirdly reckless, maybe. But it’s for discharging a firearm without lawful purpose, but at least it’s a disorderly persons offense. And I, boy, if we do it once, I sure wouldn’t think I’d do it again. So, why is this such a problem, you know. Evan Nappen 11:09 But oh, well, wait, wait, wait. We’re not done yet. Because then it says, if a person commits a violation under this section, you’re charged with a crime one degree higher than what ordinarily would be charged for such an offense when the violation occurs within 100 yards, 100 yards, folks. Not 100 feet. A football field’s worth of distance of an occupied structure. Oh, what’s an occupied structure? Any building, room, ship, vessel, car, vehicle, or airplane, or a place adopted for overnight accommodations of persons or for carrying on business therein. Wait a minute, wait a minute. Wait a minute! An occupied structure includes a car or vehicle, and it doesn’t even mean it has to be occupied. It means even a vehicle or a building or a room, and it has to be within 100 yards, a football field, of a car. If there’s a car driving by within 100 yards where the accidental discharge takes place. If you’re in your own home? I mean, this is basically every accidental discharge. You will probably be within 100 yards of a car or a building or a room, or hotel or whatever, or an airplane. Man, even if the airplane is flying over the sky, I don’t know. I mean, this is nuts. Evan Nappen 12:55 So, if the violation occurs within 100 yards of a “structure”, guess what? It’s no longer that disorderly persons offense. It’s bumped instantly to the fourth degree, felony level offense. Up to a year and a half Page – 3 – of 11in State Prison, and now you’re going to be a convicted felon. That’s if your gun discharged for not having, without a lawful purpose. Oh, you mean like an accident? Yeah! Like an accident. An accident because you didn’t have a lawful purpose. Did you lawfully have a purposeful accident? No, that’s silliness in a nutshell. So, what it means now is essentially any accidental discharge is a felony in New Jersey, and you can face State Prison time of at least a year and a half, unless it’s going to be enhanced even more based on these other factors. And as a felon, you lose your gun rights for the entire United States. Evan Nappen 14:12 And even if it’s kept at the misdemeanor, a so-called disorderly persons level, they’re still going to go after your gun license and your gun rights. They’ll claim, under Chapter 58-3 of the licensing law, that you’re somehow a danger to public health, safety, welfare. You think if you’re going to have a criminal charge, a criminal offense charged here of accidental discharge, where they’re classifying it as reckless because it went for a “an unlawful purpose”. Like I said, I don’t know how you have a lawful purpose accident. And it was somehow within 100 yards of any car or room, which made it originally a felony even, right? Felony level in New Jersey. You’re getting your license and your guns confiscated and taken and face prosecution over this insane law. Evan Nappen 15:17 Now, this is the consequences of this bill, right? But that’s just the consequences in the law itself, like the penalty you may face and licensing problems. But what it also means is that upon any accidental discharge, folks, any, you immediately, now, immediately, have a Fifth Amendment right against self- incrimination, and you’re going to have to stand by that. Because I know in many of the cases we’ve seen, someone had an accidental discharge, and it may have gone through their wall. It may have gone to a neighbor’s house. It may have not whatever. But if you react, if you call the police, if you try to find out what happened, any type, you’re getting criminally charged. You have a right to say nothing. You have an absolute right, a Fifth Amendment right to remain silent, because you will end up incriminating yourself. This is going to mean that any New Jersey gun owner who has an AD or an uncommanded accidental discharge needs to immediately take the Fifth and seek counsel, the Sixth Amendment. Just call your attorney and don’t say anything to anyone. Do not make any statements to law enforcement or anybody. And, you know, this is a shame. Because what if that round actually caused injury to somebody? Teddy Nappen 16:59 Actually take it a step further. Evan Nappen 17:01 Think about it. You’re gonna incriminate yourself. You gotta absolutely. Go ahead, Teddy. Teddy Nappen 17:07 Take it a step further. Imagine instead of “gun”, this was “car”. I asked. I was in. I got into a car accident. So, therefore, all car accidents are felonies, where there is nowhere. Were you back? Were you 100 feet from your driveway? Was there a car driving by? Did you back into that car? Felony! You are now a felon because of that. And don’t tell me it’s the firearm versus the car! Because the car is a Page – 4 – of 11two ton steel death machine that kills more people than firearms do. So, it’s that level of argument, the utter draconian insanity that they have created here. Where from an accident, an actual accident, God forbid. Evan Nappen 17:54 An accident. That is right. Teddy Nappen 17:56 You are guilty until proven innocent. Evan Nappen 17:59 And wait. Let me say this. This has been put out there as a possible problem for self-defenders. And that’s actually not completely accurate, because there’s an exemption here that says it’s an affirmative defense, if you fired your gun in self-defense. Okay. Affirmative defense means the burden is on you to prove that you acted in self-defense. Then they’ll say, okay, that wasn’t a reckless discharge. But even the fact that the legislature has to put in there that if you act in self-defense, it’s an affirmative defense. Well, wait a minute. Why is it an affirmative defense? Because it wouldn’t have been reckless if it was intentional. Why do we even need that? So, in other words, the legislature itself knows that they’ve manipulated this law to simply be discharge for unlawful purpose, period. If you didn’t have a lawful purpose when your gun went off, it’s felony level if it’s within 100 yards of a car, or a room, or a building. Insanity. Evan Nappen 19:05 And as you say, Teddy, it would be like making every car accident, any fender bender that you have, you become charged with a felony. New Jersey has done that to gun owners now. Any accident, any accidental discharge, you’re going to face these criminal charges. This is going to, you’re going to end up in the system. If you have an AD, you’re getting charged. And now we’re going to have to fight this out on an offense that is essentially strict liability. That is the way they’ve set it up. Couching it and hiding it under so-called reckless, recklessly. But when they actually write it, they put the recklessly with the little bonus of having “without a lawful purpose”. This is nuts. Nuts. Nuts. Evan Nappen 19:58 I’m telling you right now the cases we get, it’s going to be crazy, crazy and a problem. So, folks, be extra careful. This is bad news. It has passed both houses, and the Governor, I’m sure, will sign it very shortly, if he hasn’t signed it already. And now gun owners are at extreme risk under this law. Teddy Nappen 20:24 I just thought of another one, too. What if you’re a first time shooter and you go to a range course, you’re in a range, a gun range learning, and the gun accidentally goes off because you’re brand new to firearms? You’re now a convicted felon. No discretion. Evan Nappen 20:44 Oh, well. It was near a room. That’s right, no discretion, and anybody that has that AD. So, again, it’s designed to disenfranchise gun owners of Second Amendment rights. And by the way, you may not be Page – 5 – of 11able to then get even insurance coverage. Because if it’s criminalized over what you did, it’s not anymore. Now, you’re talking about behavior where they can claim it’s a criminal act. It’s a criminal act, okay? And again, you may depending on your policy, depending on what actually the injuries and damage, you may not even have coverage. The insurance companies will use it to deny you coverage. I’m sure of that. That’s their job, as it normally is, anyway. To try to figure out how to deny coverage. Well, they’ve just given them that ability on the civil side to further make it harder for you. It’s jeopardizing gun rights, and it’s looking at creating incarceration at felony level for gun owners. It’s outrageous, and it really is something that I’m sure we’re going to see major, major impact. And then that’s not the only fun. Go ahead, Teddy. Teddy Nappen 22:04 I was just curious on the constitutionality of it? Because they’ve made, there must be some avenue. Because it’s very, like they’re giving no discretion? And just saying. Evan Nappen 22:16 Nope. Teddy Nappen 22:16 It’s automatic. There’s no constitutional challenge. Evan Nappen 22:20 Well, I guess there could always be a constitutional challenge. But what’s going to happen is it’s going to have to be the fight. The real fight is going to be over, maybe an argument of, was there a conscious, conscientious disregard, or conscious disregard of a known risk. But the other side will argue that as soon as you have a gun with ammo, you have a known risk. I mean, a firearm, and that’s their entire anti-Second Amendment strategy. Teddy Nappen 22:43 When you deal with guns, you do so at your peril. Evan Nappen 22:53 Right! And that’s New Jersey case law, right there. So, they’re saying, hey, you do it at your peril. You took a known risk because you possessed a gun, even. You can well see a New Jersey jury buying that argument. This is nuts, and gun owners, beware, beware, beware, beware. And like I said, this isn’t the only shenanigan that occurred in Trenton. They also signed S1425. (https://pub.njleg.gov/Bills/2024/S1500/1425_R1.PDF) Now, this is actually law. This law, real quick, specifically applies just to dealers. Just to New Jersey dealers. How nice. They have their own very special law now. This law says, “A licensed dealer who sells or transfers a firearm to a person when the dealer knows or reasonably should know that person intends to sell, transfer, assign, or otherwise dispose of that firearm to a person who is disqualified from possessing a firearm under State or federal law is guilty of a crime of the second degree.” That means up to 10 years in State Prison. They have a minimum mandatory period of three and a half years, and they made it a second degree. This is insane. Page – 6 – of 11Evan Nappen 24:03 If you’re a dealer in New Jersey, they can claim that you reasonably should have known that a gun you transferred to somebody was going to be transferred to somebody who was disqualified from possessing. Let me give you an example. You sell a Red Rider BB gun. That’s a firearm under New Jersey law. And if you reasonably should have known that that person was going to let their kid have that BB gun, you’re looking at a second degree charge here, Dealers. Yeah for that BB gun. Because as long as the state can show you reasonably should know that, that the person intended to transfer it to someone who was disqualified, who would be arguably that minor, unless it’s under a strict exemption. I mean, this is the kind of pathways being cut here. How do you know or reasonably should know? What is that reasonably should have known nonsense? Evan Nappen 25:03 I mean, that’s again, 12 people on a jury are the ones who’s going to decide whether reasonably you should know. All the law says, “. . . ‘reasonably should know’ means that a person reasonably should know a fact when, under the circumstances, a person of reasonable prudence and competence would ascertain or know that fact.” Oh, that’s a that’s so crystal clear. Huh? Real, crystal clear. Now what it means is 12 people who aren’t smart enough to avoid jury duty are going to decide whether the dealer should have known on that gun sale. And if they decide otherwise, the dealer is looking at a minimum mandatory sentence on a second degree crime, which carries up to 10 years in State Prison. Okay? That’s what they’re doing. Focused on New Jersey dealers. Do you think they want to put every dealer in New Jersey out of business? I do. And that’s the other bonus law that’s actually signed into law. It’s ripe for abuse, folks. Beware. It is just atrocious what’s going on in New Jersey. Evan Nappen 26:07 Let me tell you about our fight. You know, we are in this fight. We constantly, we’ve tried to fight these things. New Jersey is an extremely tough environment. We’re going to see court challenges, even more court challenges, and it’s our state Association that’s going to be heading the fight. I’m sure we’re going to see a constitutional challenge to this so-called Accidental Discharge bill and the same over what they’re looking to do to dealers. And it’s ANJRPC, the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs at the forefront, fighting for our rights. They’re the umbrella organization of gun clubs in New Jersey, and you can join as an individual member. You really need to. You’ll be sent email alerts, and you’ll be told what’s going on. And you know, we’re able to get changes made with pressure, but most importantly, our salvation seems to be in the judicial fight in the courts. The Association is there as we speak. This is an extremely tough environment in New Jersey, the toughest in America, where the oppression of Second Amendment rights is second to none. New Jersey wins the prize for Second Amendment oppression, and it’s the Association there at the forefront. You need to be a member. Go to anjrpc.org and join today. Be part of the solution. It’s really important that you do that. Evan Nappen 27:43 I’d also like to talk about our good friends at WeShoot. WeShoot is an indoor range in Lakewood, easily accessible, off the Parkway. It’s where Teddy and I both shoot, and we both qualified. It’s where we got our CCARE and where we get our training. We love WeShoot. That’s the place to shoot. It’s a place you can shoot. They have a wonderful facility, a great pro shop, and great instructors. You’ve got to check out their website, magnificent photography there. And they run all kinds of great deals and Page – 7 – of 11specials, and they have all the top state of the art equipment. Check out weshootusa.com. weshootusa.com. You’ll be glad you did. It is a great resource for us to have a range right there in Central New Jersey that is as professional and modern as WeShoot. Go to weshootusa.com and check them out. You will be thrilled, just like Teddy and I. Well, that’s where we shoot. It’s what we love. You’ll love it too. Evan Nappen 29:00 Let me also mention my book, New Jersey Gun Law. It’s the Bible of New Jersey gun law. I’m working on the update from what I just told you today. So, the free update will be coming out, including the 2026 Comprehensive Update. We’re going to look at and add in all the new laws that’ll be coming out shortly. So, if you have the book, make sure you scan the QR cover. The QR code on the cover. Join my free private subscriber base, and you’ll get notice of the updates that are forthcoming. You can buy the book at EvanNappen.com. That’s right, www.EvanNappen.com. Go to EvanNappen.com and get the big orange book today. You’ll be glad you did. It’s over 500 pages, 120 topics, all Question and Answer, designed to make it as user friendly as possible. I try to make it so you can navigate these treacherous waters of Second Amendment oppression in New Jersey. So, go to EvanNappen.com and get your book. Teddy, what do you have for us today in Press Checks? Teddy Nappen 30:15 Well, as you know, Press Checks are always free. While you’re talking about the utter insanity that is New Jersey, there’s one positive bit of news. It’s kind of been, you know, from the entire news cycle of everything they try to cover. There’s one thing that kind of slipped under the cracks that some people did pick up on. And it caught my eye. I was like, wait a second, I remember this. So, President Trump has withdrawn from the UN Register of Conventional Arms. (https://gunrights.org/united-states- withdraws-from-united-nations-register-of-conventional-arms/) That treaty. Now, I remember growing up as a kid, Dad, you told me, always keep an eye out if there are blue helmets walking down the street. Evan Nappen 31:01 Yeah, that’s right, that blue helmet day came, if that ever was to come. Yep. Teddy Nappen 31:08 And oh, I remember you telling me about that treaty. And you know that stupid, you know, the UN has always been an anti-gun organization, with that stupid, bent revolver they have. Evan Nappen 31:20 Yeah, the revolver with a barrel and a pretzel knot. (https://dam.media.un.org/archive/Gift-of- Luxembourg-to-the-United-Nations-2AM9LOQORWK.html) I mean, look at folks. It’s a revolver, by the way. It’s not an AK, you know. It’s not an AR. It’s not in an “assault firearm”. No, no. It’s a freaking revolver with a barrel in a pretzel knot there. Gee, who are the primary possessors of revolvers? I wonder. Is that paramilitary organizations? No. Terrorist, radicalized wackos? No. A revolver. Let me see. Oh, you mean, like average citizens? Wow, hmm. Interesting. Page – 8 – of 11Teddy Nappen 32:02 But what I remember that being back, you know, where this was a big fear. Where it was the giant arms treaty, where they were trying, I think it wasn’t ratified by Obama, but that was that insane policy to try, even. The UN even actually has an Office of Disarmament. (https://disarmament.unoda.org/en/our- work/conventional-arms/legal-instruments/arms-trade-treaty) That’s actually their whole like deal. What they try to push for. Now, they cloak it in like militarily. If you actually go to the website, this was from the gunrights.org. (https://gunrights.org/united-states-withdraws-from-united-nations-register-of- conventional-arms/) The National Association of Gun Rights put out the article, and they provide the link where you can go on to the UN website. You can see their register of their whole charter on the UN, and it goes into they brag about it. We’ve recorded and captured 90% of the global arms trade. By the way, this was supposed to be about, you know, tanks, armored carriers. You know, stuff used in actual, like, large scale warfare. But then I love how they do this. In 2016 they adopted the international small arms and light weapons in parallel with the other seven categories, so we can keep track of all small arms. Hmm, 2016. What were they doing to try, what was the big anti-gun push to try to disarm us around that time? Thinking that they’re going to try to go around collecting our arms in the United States. Like it’s so disgusting. I love how they just cloak it. You actually can go on to their reports. I got bored. So, I clicked the arms report of 2023 and I was like, okay, armored carriers, all that . Small arms. I wanted to look and see who were like the top buyers. So, revolvers and self-loading pistols – Iraq. Apparently. Evan Nappen 33:57 Really? Teddy Nappen 33:58 Yeah, like 2,150 pistols from us to Iraq. Evan Nappen 34:03 Oh, from the U.S.? Teddy Nappen 34:05 Yeah, from the U.S. It keeps track of each country. Evan Nappen 34:07 Well, we’re making them. Teddy Nappen 34:09 Yeah. Evan Nappen 34:09 Of course. We’re a major industrial manufacturer. What we should be doing is making guns. Teddy Nappen 34:14 Yeah. And then rifles and carbines. They separate that from “assault firearms”. Rifles and carbines. 20,000 to Israel. So, there you go for that end. Page – 9 – of 11Evan Nappen 34:27 Yeah, Israel makes a lot of their own weapons, too, and they make really good ones. Teddy Nappen 34:32 Yeah, I know they have the Hebrew hammer. Evan Nappen 34:35 Oh, yeah! Teddy Nappen 34:35 The Tabor X95. (https://iwi.us/firearms/tavor-x95/) But with the sub-machine guns, Saudi Arabia, 550. Evan Nappen 34:41 This doesn’t even matter. This is so absurd, and it’s just trying to globalize Second Amendment oppression. You know, our country’s blessed with Second Amendment. And of course, New Jersey does everything it can to undermine it, but the majority of America doesn’t do that. But internationally, we, you know, they hate us. They hate our Constitution, and they want to see us disarmed. We are standing as a threat to their globalist intentions, right? Teddy Nappen 35:21 I mean, that was the famous line that Donald Trump said to the world. The world does not belong to globalists. And that’s a fact. And here, in their charter, they even say, such measures, as they’re describing the whole disarmament office, such measures can also encourage restraint in the transfer and production of armament and decelerate military build up. In words of, okay, we need to lower the amount of guns in the world and try to disarm the people. That’s the cover they run, but they dress it up. I will give the Left credit. Their ability to wordsmith their way into something else is crazy. Evan Nappen 36:06 Well, listen, man. It’s not every political group that can convince people, you know, that a man can be a woman. So, why can’t they convince the world about this with guns? Right? Teddy Nappen 36:17 Well, it’s the political group that has the. When they did the whole study on mental health of different groups, the vast majority of people that vote Democrat have mental illness. So, let that sink in. That was an actual study, and that was put out by, like, CNN! So. Evan Nappen 36:18 Really? Teddy Nappen 36:19 Yeah, they had to be like. No, I love it. If you are ever bored? Anyone who’s very bored, go on to CNN and catch Harry Enton, the statistics guy. He’s the golden retriever of CNN. He just talks about numbers, and he gets so excited. He’s like, oh my God, have you seen these numbers? I can’t believe Page – 10 – of 11it. He’s always, like, shocked every time. He sees like, you know, everyone keeps saying Trump’s numbers are going bad, but you go over to here. Six months ago, 84, and now, it’s 85. Oh, wow, amazing. Like, it’s just, it’s that energy. It’s crazy. Evan Nappen 37:13 Well, how old is he? Maybe he’s just trying to get excitement to statistics? Teddy Nappen 37:18 I know, but it’s just like, what are the numbers? Pretty good. He’s like, gad Zooks. He’s like, clapping. I know. It’s just like, what the heck is it? Like if anyone is bored? Just look up Harry Enten on CNN. He’s, it’s so fucking weird. Evan Nappen 37:37 Okay, I love it. All right, Teddy. Well, that is interesting to know, but I’m not surprised, not surprised at all. This is the moment, the moment when we discuss the GOFU, that is the Gun Owner Fuck Up. It is one of the most important aspects of what we do, because every day we deal with Gun Owner Fuck Ups. And when we can let the listeners know, you get to learn expensive lessons for free. And this week’s GOFU is real simple. It’s Accidental Discharge. Let me just make it real clear. Now, more than ever, more than ever, you’ve got to be extremely overly conscientious. You better triple check chambers. You’ve got to make sure. You cannot afford in any way to have any kind of Accidental Discharge in New Jersey, because you risk it all. You risk it all. You risk becoming a felon. You risk going to prison. You risk losing your gun rights for the entire United States. You risk not being covered, arguably, by insurance. It is an insane risk that New Jersey is imposing, and I’ve seen 80 cases throughout my entire practice. Unfortunately, they happen, and, you know, in hindsight, they’re all avoidable. But folks don’t be a GOFU. Please, please, please. Follow all the rules of safety, and make sure you treat every gun as loaded. Every gun, you treat as loaded. Do not for a second, not do that. It’s just that critical. They’re criminalizing those who make a simple mistake, and there is no tolerance. Evan Nappen 40:00 This is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens. Speaker 2 40:13 Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state. Page – 11 – of 11 Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S5 E273_Transcript About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets. Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News. As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists. He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America. Email Evan Your Comments and Questions  [email protected] Join Evan’s InnerCircleHere’s your chance to join an elite group of the Savviest gun and knife owners in America.  Membership is totally FREE and Strictly CONFIDENTIAL.  Just enter your email to start receiving insider news, tips, and other valuable membership benefits.   Email (required) *First Name *Select list(s) to subscribe toInnerCircle Membership Yes, I would like to receive emails from Gun Lawyer Podcast. (You can unsubscribe anytime)Constant Contact Use. Please leave this field blank.var ajaxurl = "https://gun.lawyer/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php";

  Episode 272- Jersey Spreads the Oppression  Also Available OnSearchable Podcast Transcript Gun Lawyer — Episode Transcript SUMMARY KEYWORDS Second Amendment rights, New Jersey gun laws, national firearm licensing, anti-gun oppression, domestic violence restraining order, federal firearms licensing act, gun control measures, gun rights suppression, gun violence prevention, gun rights advocacy, gun rights litigation, gun rights education, gun rights resources, gun rights history, gun rights updates. SPEAKERS Speaker 2, Teddy Nappen, Evan Nappen Evan Nappen 00:15 I’m Evan Nappen. Teddy Nappen 00:17 And I’m Teddy Nappen. Evan Nappen 00:20 And welcome to Gun Lawyer. So, New Jersey is spreading the oppression. New Jersey is like a cancer when it comes to Second Amendment rights, and it has to metastasize. This is really one of the primary reasons that Gun Lawyer, our show here, has reach that is further than just New Jersey, even though we focus a lot on New Jersey. But New Jersey is where we see the experimenting done at the cost of our rights, where we see the oppression in full force and effect. And we see their newest machinations coming from the Left wing, anti-Second Amendment, anti-American, think tanks getting their origins in New Jersey. Then spreading and then spreading, with an attempt to spread it to all of America. Evan Nappen 01:26 So, of course, we have New Jersey senators, strictly New Jersey senators here, that are now pushing a national gun licensing scheme, which is national Second Amendment rights oppression, to force the entire country into the agenda of disarmament via New Jersey style. And it is why you have to, we have to, keep the fight up here in New Jersey, which is the front line of the battle. We need to get our politics here changed, because the cancer has to stop. Evan Nappen 02:13 And here’s what they’re proposing right now. Granted, it’s not likely to pass in the current climate right now with Republicans in control, barely, but in control of both houses, and with President Trump at the helm. But it is something that tells you where the Democrats will go should they ever regain power again, and this is showing you just how far they will go to oppress our Second Amendment rights. I mean, it’s apparently not bad enough that the Democrats are so-called Democrat socialists, you know, communist light. But even just in terms of the Constitution that they are supposedly sworn to uphold, it is demonstrated as to be a false oath by them over and over again. Page – 1 – of 13 Evan Nappen 03:14 So, here is the current push, and by the way, this is from an article from Bearing Arms, and it’s by Tommy Knighton. It says, “NJ’s Senators Push National Gun Licensing Bill”. (https://bearingarms.com/tomknighton/2026/01/04/njs-senators-push-national-gun-licensing-bill- n1231085) So, who are the culprits here? Who are those oppressors out of New Jersey? Well, of course, it’s Senator (Corey) Booker and Senator (Andy) Kim. They’ve introduced this legislation, and they’re calling it the Federal Firearm Licensing Act (FFLA). Now, don’t confuse the title. Teddy Nappen 03:43 Doesn’t Cory Booker ever stop talking. Evan Nappen 03:46 Yeah. Don’t confuse this Federal Firearms Licensing Act with the way we traditionally think of an FFL as being a dealer. No, no, no. What they’re doing here, and maybe it’s part of their attempt to fool the public, I don’t know. But it would mandate that every American obtain a Federal Firearms License before purchasing or receiving any firearm. So, if you want to purchase or receive a firearm in America, you’re going to have to get an FFL. Now, this obviously isn’t a dealer FFL. It’s just a private person wanting to exercise Second Amendment rights FFL. This is apparently one of the most comprehensive federal gun control measures, what I prefer to call Second Amendment oppression measures, requiring and establishing a nationwide licensing system. Putting numerous new requirements on every American. Evan Nappen 04:59 Under this proposed legislation, you would need to complete a mandatory firearms training safety that includes both written and hands-on instruction before qualifying for a license. And this is a license just to obtain a firearm. This isn’t to carry a firearm. The Attorney General will then conduct background checks on every applicant, and the FBI would perform regular compliance checks to monitor license holders. So, you’re going to be constantly monitored by the FBI, as well as having to go through this. Each license will expire after five years, requiring gun owners to renew their permission to purchase firearms. And, of course, if the license expires and you don’t renew it, you’re losing your guns and your gun rights. And this is what the oppressionists, what New Jersey’s senators, are putting forward to try to create a national firearm licensing scheme. Of course, it has the end game of utter confiscation and to turn us into, you know, the U.K. basically. Evan Nappen 06:19 The bill will fundamentally alter how Americans can buy and sell firearms privately. Unlicensed individuals could no longer transfer to other unlicensed individuals. Instead, all transactions have to go through dealers, and selling or transferring a firearm without a Federal license issued within the previous 30 days would be illegal. Sellers are mandated to report transactions to law enforcement, etc. So, you can see this is just scratching the surface of this so-called Federal Firearms Licensing Act. It’s designed for the furtherance of their agenda. And this agenda we see come alive in New Jersey. How New Jersey citizens are turned into criminals. Law-abiding citizens turned into criminals by New Jersey Page – 2 – of 13 gun law. I deal with that every day, defending my clients who Jersey has made into law-abiding criminals. And this is something that they want to spread to the entire United States. So, beware. Evan Nappen 07:35 And keep in mind the history of gun rights oppression, beginning with New Jersey, and spreading to the entire U.S. is documented through a number of laws. For example, New Jersey first had the domestic violence misdemeanor and/or restraining order gun ban. New Jersey had it as a state law first, where if you had a domestic violence restraining order, or what New Jersey calls a disorderly person. We can view it as a misdemeanor offense. Concerning domestic violence, then you became a prohibited person to have a firearm. That was not a national law. That was state law. New Jersey was one of the originators of that law. Evan Nappen 08:22 And, of course, it was something that radically departed from what were traditionally prohibited persons. It had to be felons, convicted felons, and originally, it was violent felons, but at least you had to have a felony conviction. But now what you saw was misdemeanant, misdemeanant, a misdemeanant, suddenly having a gun disqualifier. And even less than being a misdemeanant, somebody with a civil restraining order became forfeit, disenfranchised of their Second Amendment rights. And New Jersey did it first to its own people. Then Senator, the corpse, Lautenberg, as you may recall, put it forward federally, and it became federal law by a New Jersey Senator. Creating new disqualifiers for domestic violence restraining order and/or domestic violence misdemeanor. Thereby, retroactively, by the way, because there’s no ex post facto when it comes to a civil disqualifier. Retroactively disqualifying hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people that were lawful gun owners into being unlawful gun owners. And lowering the bar for a loss of Second Amendment rights. Evan Nappen 10:01 This has impacted thousands of people in their gun rights, criminal prosecutions, et cetera. And, of course, no piece of paper ever actually really protected somebody. I mean, that’s a joke. You know, these restraining orders are feel good more than anything. I mean, good luck. I mean, we’ve seen case after case where, yeah, the person had a restraining order, and they still became victimized by the person who was restrained. And even taking away guns from the person who has the restraining order. Yeah, oh, there’s no way that they might get another gun, right? So, that thousands of people get their guns seized. Teddy Nappen 10:49 Or, the classic. He threw pretzels at me! Evan Nappen 10:52 Right! Oh, God. Teddy Nappen 10:53 Or where you get accused of something that isn’t true, that they make stuff up and there’s clear falsification. And then. Page – 3 – of 13 Evan Nappen 11:00 Teddy, you’re so right. As soon as that TRO, Temporary Restraining Order, issues based on the flimsiest of allegations, with you having no say whatsoever. And, you know, it’s harder to get a sandwich at Wawa, than to get a TRO issued against somebody. You now have to go to court. Your guns are going to be seized pursuant to that TRO, and you’re going to have a fight, not only on the allegations, but also on trying to regain your rights. And it’s just a nightmare that can be triggered on the flimsiest of allegations. We see it all the time. And oh, well, that’s not politically correct. Well, it doesn’t matter, folks. I don’t do this show so I can maintain political correctness. Evan Nappen 11:46 I’m telling you what I see as a practicing attorney all the time in this area. I see the abuse, abuse of rights, okay? I see this system being abused against individuals. None of this means that I’m in favor of someone being domestically abused, being violently abused in any capacity. I don’t want to see anybody abused. But that doesn’t mean that we do not talk about the actual effect that we see happen over and over and over again when it comes to the Lautenberg law that started with New Jersey and became federal law by New Jersey senators spreading the cancer, spreading the oppression, to the entire United States. So, that’s why this bill that you may think right now is not a threat, but don’t underestimate how important it is to be aware of it and to know that this very well could become reality. Because other bills in the past that were thought impossible, too, become law have become federal law. So, New Jersey is the state to watch when it comes to the danger to our Second Amendment rights. Evan Nappen 13:08 Now I have a letter here from Ask Evan, and this is from Ron. Ron says, I hope you had a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. Well, thank you, Ron. I’m not sure if this is in your area of expertise, but I’m interested on how to handle fish and wildlife officers when hunting with a firearm. With open fields and extended powers granted them, what are we required to do and say to them when approached in the field while hunting,? Are there any recommendations or common issues you encounter how to prevent becoming a gun owner mess up of the week? I like how you call this. It’s a GOFU. You don’t want to be a GOFU, and I appreciate that you don’t want to be a GOFU. Teddy Nappen 13:45 Oh, check every, check every bush. Check every bush when you go out hunting, because you may find a fish and game officer. Evan Nappen 13:50 Hiding behind any bush, right? So, yeah, that reminds me of, I don’t know if I should tell that joke about. The law professor, the appellate judge, and the trial court judge all went hunting. So, they’re out hunting, and in front of the appellate court judge, the bush shook and moved, and out walks a deer. Now the appellate court judge looks at that and says, okay, there’s a three-part test to determine if that deer is a deer. You know, you gotta look at the antlers. You gotta look if there are any. Then you gotta look at the hoofs and the tail. And by the time he does a three-part test of the appellate judge’s determination, the deer is gone. It took off. Next thing you know, in front of the law professor, another little bush shakes and out walks a deer. And the law professor knows it’s a deer, but before he shoots, Page – 4 – of 13 he says, you know what’s the societal impact of me shooting this deer? I wonder how it might affect civil rights and current DEI requirements and all that. By the time he finishes all his social considerations, that deer is gone. Next thing you know, in front of the trial court judge, the bush shakes, and the trial court judge immediately fires into the bush and says, damn, I hope that’s a deer. Anyway, I know if you’re and maybe, maybe you have to be a lawyer to appreciate it, maybe you don’t. Evan Nappen 14:36 Anyway. Well, back to the hunting and fishing question here, Teddy. Sorry to torture people with that. And it’s a really good question. And what it says is, what do you do in this situation. Well, here’s the deal. Law enforcement is law enforcement. Fish and Game Officers are law enforcement officers, and they’re proud to say they are. So, the question is, do you have to talk to law enforcement? And the answer is, no, you don’t. You don’t have to talk to law enforcement. Now, what you do have to do, though, is you have to provide your pedigree information. I mean, if they asked to see your license, I would suggest show them your license and identifying yourself as you would with any officer, your pedigree information. But I would not talk anything about your activities in the field. I would not talk about anything about anything. Evan Nappen 15:40 I mean, if they walk up to you and you have your gun, then they want to make sure that things are safe. So, they may ask to secure your firearm in some manner, and it’s best to cooperate with that. But as far as what you say, you have a Fifth Amendment right to remain silent. You have a Sixth Amendment right to an attorney. You have no obligation to speak to them about any other questions they may have about having to do anything that requires you to say something without a lawyer, other than what I would just leave as identification and pedigree as to who you are, but that’s essentially how it is. And you know, if they say, hey, we want to search your vehicle. No, you do not consent to them searching your vehicle. If they’re going to search no matter what, then they’ll do whatever they’re going to do. But you are not going to consent to it, and that’s the difference. Evan Nappen 15:40 The problem is that with Fish and Game violations, you can end up having your gun rights in jeopardy. They will attempt to use your hunting violations as public health, safety, welfare, character assassination type tactics. Where they will say, oh, you didn’t hunt properly, or follow the hunting laws, etc, with firearms. And then they’ll use it to try to then take away your gun rights. So, there is a risk when hunting that hunting charges can jeopardize your gun rights by them using what I call the all- inclusive miscellaneous weasel clause, also known as “public health, safety, and welfare” of the 58-3 licensing requirements. They will take your hunting violations and try to push it into a claim that somehow you’re a danger. So, you have to be careful with having hunting violations, because, yes, it can directly come into conflict and cause problems for your Second Amendment rights on possession of firearms, generally speaking. So, always stand on your rights and be aware that your rights don’t just disappear because the Law Enforcement Officer you’re dealing with happens to be a Fish and Game Law Enforcement Officer. Page – 5 – of 13 Evan Nappen 15:55 Hey, let me tell you about our friends at WeShoot, which is a range where Teddy and I both shoot in Lakewood. We love WeShoot. Well, they’ve been spotlighting some of their instructors, and they have really top notch instructors. They are highlighting about their expert instructor, retired Detective Sergeant Jim Weinberg, aka Rabbi Jim, folks. That’s right, Rabbi Jim is a legendary instructor at WeShoot, and Rabbi Jim is really top notch. He’s had a lifetime of service. Over 30 years in law enforcement experience in both the Union County’s Prosecutor’s Office and as Union County Police Officer. And he spent two decades with SWAT/UCERT operator. He’s trained thousands, and he’s a PTC Certified Instructor as well. That’s for Police Training Commission purposes. And he served as a Fire Instructor at the police academy. And so he is one of their great trainers at WeShoot. He can do the RPO qualifications, and he can do CCARE. And he has a great teaching style. Jim is just one of the great instructors that you can have instruct you at WeShoot. Evan Nappen 20:50 It’s amazing resource that we have right there in Central Jersey, easily accessible off the Parkway. They have a great pro shop, great staff and a great range. I mean it. We love WeShoot, and so will you. Go to weshootusa.com, weshootusa.com. Check out their website. You’ll find they have wonderful photography and, of course, you want to check out the WeShoot girls that have great guns and other things that they display proudly that you will love to see. And you can find those at the pro shop. They often run great sales and deals. So, make sure you check out weshootusa.com. Evan Nappen 21:39 Also, I want to mention our good friends at the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. Boy oh, boy, things are heating up. We have some major litigation that we’re going to see some major results on in the Third Circuit, where the full panel has agreed on a number of our issues to do the review. We’re cautiously optimistic here about seeing some real important wins in terms of the case law. The Association is there at the forefront on this litigation. Very exciting. Regarding so-called assault firearms and large capacity magazines, which we prefer to call standard capacity magazines and assault firearms. Man, the pejorative terms of the Left. They’re just so ridiculous. Evan Nappen 22:35 Anyway, the bottom line is, it’s not just words. It’s the effect that these wacko definitions that they put into law arbitrarily turn us into criminals, and that’s what has to end. I’m cautiously optimistic that the court is going to do that. The court is going to step up and finally address these key issues in a positive way for our Second Amendment rights. I mean, folks, I know it gets depressing out there with how we’re treated, but the truth is, we are making tremendous progress. We really are. Between President Trump’s administration and with the Supreme Court and with his appointment of judges throughout the federal court system, we are seeing great progress. I’m really excited for it, but we have to stay vigilant. As you know, the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs will help you maintain your vigilance. Go to anjrpc.org, and make sure you join as a member. You’ll get those email updates, and you’ll be glad you did. Page – 6 – of 13 Evan Nappen 23:50 And let me also shamelessly promote my book New Jersey Gun Law, which is the Bible of New Jersey gun law, and you will enjoy it immensely. And you can say to yourself, how does a state like New Jersey even exist with this insane matrix of laws? But at least you’ll know because you have the book on how to safely navigate through them. So, get your copy of New Jersey Gun Law today. The 25th Anniversary Edition is available from EvanNappen.com Hey, that sounds like my name. Well, in fact, it is. Go to EvanNappen.com, and you’ll see the big orange book there. Get your copy today. Make sure you scan the front QR code and join my private subscriber base. I will send you out updates, and you’ll be able to access the archives. And I’m working on what will be the 2026 Comprehensive Update. We’re waiting to see if laws that have passed get signed into law, which I expect any day now they will be. And then I’m going to be putting out the update. So, you want to make sure you have the book and belong on the subscriber base so that you can stay current. Teddy, what do you have for us today? Teddy Nappen 25:03 Well, as you know, Press Checks are always free. And because it’s the new year, we always gotta check in on the gun rights suppressors and what’s the latest of their propaganda. They decided to put out a report card like they’re, like they’re, a teacher scolding the states for failing to apply their gun rights oppression. (https://giffords.org/lawcenter/resources/scorecard/) But New Jersey, who is the teacher’s pet, got an A. Evan Nappen 25:34 Of course, New Jersey got an A. What does the “A” stand for? Teddy Nappen 25:37 “A” stands for anti-gunners. Also, for New Jersey, the Bloomberg check cleared. So, obviously they’re going to push for it. So. Evan Nappen 25:46 I thought a stands for “a holes”. Teddy Nappen 25:49 That works, too. But yeah, they break it down in that. You can go to their website and check it out. They make it very convenient to click and compare/contrast states. By the way, New Hampshire got an F. So, good job. Evan Nappen 26:03 Oh, New Hampshire, good. F for freedom. Teddy Nappen 26:06 F for freedom. Yep. F for freedom. A for anti-gunners. That’s how we look at it. But I love how they tote it. Which is gun law strength rank, number two. Sorry, they lost. I guess California still wins the day. Teddy Nappen 26:19 Really? Wait, who was number one? Page – 7 – of 13 Teddy Nappen 26:24 From pulling up from that, pulling up, I believe it was California. Evan Nappen 26:28 That makes sense. Teddy Nappen 26:30 They went. Yep, California is number one. Yeah, congratulations to California. Good luck. Good luck. How are the fires? Anyways, I love how they tote the gun death rate ranking, one of the lowest gun death rankings. They always love to tote that. And what is gun deaths? Well, anyone who’s been shot by a firearm, regardless. They count and they misconstrue and put a stamp on it. And by the way, a lot of the other states don’t like to report. Evan Nappen 27:05 They push these false statistics. They’re just such liars. They’re unbelievable. They just, you know, they contort the statistics to make it fit their agenda. It’s that simple. Teddy Nappen 27:17 Yeah, it’s what they do. And they highlighted New Jersey’s investment of nearly $34 million in community violence intervention programs. What does that translate into? Oh, the domestic violence programs, all the anti-gun, you know, NGOs to fund our gun right suppression. Basically, when they say that, it’s them saying New Jersey is paying Democrats to take away your rights. Evan Nappen 27:45 Good way to translate it. Teddy Nappen 27:46 Yeah, just from following the money. I do love the comment section. Again, I’m treating this like a teacher going over. Well, you did a very good job. However, for a way to improve, expand your firearm responsibility laws, aka make a law to circumvent the PLCCA so that you can sue gun companies to create gun deserts. They want to require prohibited people to relinquish their firearms, even though prohibited people aren’t allowed to possess firearms. But that’s just, you know, they’re just, they’re just throwing something extra out there. And to raise the minimum age for purchase or carry a firearms to 21. I mean, at this point. Evan Nappen 28:33 Raise the age for guns, but they want to lower voting to 16. It’s amazing how certain civil rights should have high ages, and other civil rights have low ages. But we can’t just say the age of majority for everything, God forbid, right? 18. Teddy Nappen 28:50 I know. I know the you know the age should be 20. You know, I wonder what would happen to the Dems when you hear the age 21 to vote? Yeah. Page – 8 – of 13 Evan Nappen 28:59 Yeah. Right. Just apply anything. Or freedom of speech. That’s the other one. Yeah, before you can say or you can do anything. Before you can voice your opinion, you need to. Teddy Nappen 29:11 After getting approved from the Government to speak. Evan Nappen 29:13 Right. Prior approval and taking training courses with licensure. Teddy Nappen 29:20 Well, they already want to do that. Evan Nappen 29:21 So that every right is registered. Teddy Nappen 29:24 Well, you have to have the safety of language, because words are violence. Also silence is violence. It actually kind of reminds me of when I had to do the ethics. Evan Nappen 29:34 Wait, they said that silence is violence? Teddy Nappen 29:36 Oh yeah, that’s the game the Left play. Either. Either you cannot say those things because those are mean. But also, silence is violence. The only logical thing you can do is agree with us. That is their logic, and it’s quite disgusting how they play that game. Evan Nappen 29:54 I like that. Silence is violence. Teddy Nappen 29:56 Silence is violence but also, don’t use hurtful language. Figure that out. It’s a trap. That is the game they play. Evan Nappen 30:01 Why did you shoot that person? Well, because he didn’t say anything and silence is violence. Teddy Nappen 30:06 It honestly reminds me of when we had to do the ethics course for when you’re when you become a attorney. The certification they do. This woman comes up and then says to everyone, everyone on Zoom. By the way, they said to us in the very beginning, no one make comments to the speakers, Page – 9 – of 13 please. We know there’s disagreements, but this must be said. She gets up on the podium and says, you are not a comedian. Do not make jokes. That is offensive. Evan Nappen 30:06 Do not make jokes? Teddy Nappen 30:12 Do not make jokes. And my first thought was, my God, you are the problem with society. Like you can’t make jokes. I’m like, oh, my God. So yeah, but getting back to the. Evan Nappen 30:14 No jokes. Wasn’t that from Zulu? Remember when he was talking? Teddy Nappen 30:55 No, no, no. He says. Evan Nappen 30:56 What did he say in Zulu? Teddy Nappen 30:57 The sergeant, the Sergeant, Sergeant, yes. They say, no comedian. Evan Nappen 31:02 No comedian. Teddy Nappen 31:05 He’s going through like, he’s going through roles. Evan Nappen 31:08 Right. Because they’re getting ready for battle. Teddy Nappen 31:10 After the battle, he says Hicks? You’re alive. Say your name. Oh, I’m alive. Thank you, sir. No comedians. Yeah, I will give this card one thing important that I like. It basically lays the whole groundwork of them chastising the Trump administration for its very pro-gun activities they’ve done throughout the Government. Evan Nappen 31:42 Criticizing President Trump for expanding Second Amendment rights? Okay, so do they make a list or something? Teddy Nappen 31:48 Oh, they made a wonderful list. And I was like. Page – 10 – of 13 Evan Nappen 31:50 Let’s hear all the terrible things President Trump has done in expanding Second Amendment rights. Teddy Nappen 31:55 Cutting $800 million of public safety grants, and $150 million to the violence intervention and prevention programs. Evan Nappen 32:03 Nice. The propaganda arm. Teddy Nappen 32:05 Yeah, all that. And then going after ending the Office of Gun Violence Prevention. You know, all the horrible laws that we’ve been getting in the SAFE offices? Those were created by the Office of Gun Violence Prevention. Trump ended that office and then created. Evan Nappen 32:24 That was propaganda office of Biden. Teddy Nappen 32:28 Correct. And he ended that. Also the dealer regulation. This is them saying it. Dealer regulation, gun hardware. Trump has considered many cuts to the ATF and removing core ATF policies for penalizing gun dealers. You know. Evan Nappen 32:43 Those were outrageously bad. Teddy Nappen 32:46 One screw up and you lose your license. Evan Nappen 32:49 Yeah. So, that was great that he got rid of all that. Teddy Nappen 32:53 Gun Violence Research Policy cut hundreds of staff to the CDC and, you know, another propaganda department, pumping out false data and oversaw allocation of research grants, you know, to oh, Bloomberg’s college. Evan Nappen 33:07 Yeah. Because they want to make it a health issue so they can regulate it in that manner. And it’s not a health issue. And yet, they want to put it in that context, so then they can Page – 11 – of 13 Teddy Nappen 33:18 Then the big highlight, which I’m laughing that they actually know about this, the One Big, Beautiful Bill where it removes the tax requirement for gun silencers. They were trying to put a short barreled rifles, sawed off shotguns. I know those two. I don’t I don’t know if those two made it. Evan Nappen 33:35 Any other weapon. Suppressors, any other weapons. And by getting rid of the tax, the idea there is now we’re in litigation that the entire NFA needs to go. And, of course, with success with that lawsuit, where if there is no tax, then it loses its justification for existence. Then we can actually legalize machine guns by way of a simple reconciliation bill where we remove the tax through NFA even on machine guns. That’s how we’ll get the job done. Teddy Nappen 34:10 Take me back four years ago and tell me there would have been a bill put forward to effectively kneecap and shatter the NFA. That is the earth shattering power that this administration has done. Evan Nappen 34:26 And think about this. For the first time since 1934 when this was enacted, we’ve actually been able to take a piece out of it, and the piece has been the actual money that’s been collected. And by the way, there’s been a boom since the tax is gone, in people getting suppressors and getting these other things, even with the law still in effect. I have recently seen that the turnaround time on getting suppressors without having to pay the tax is very quick, as quick as one day. Even electronically, I’ve been hearing. So, it’s very fast turnaround, and it’s being done without having to pay the 200 bucks. Now, of course, if you live in the gun right suppression state of New Jersey, the state still bans silencers. But that’s currently being challenged in court as well. At the moment, you can’t have a suppressor because New Jersey is in favor of gun owners damaging their hearing and making sure that it is as unsafe as possible for any gun owner in terms of hearing protection. But we should see that litigation come to fruition shortly. Anything else on the list that President Trump has done? Teddy Nappen 35:43 Oh, they were going after, of course, the forced reset trigger. They’re trying, oh, yeah, that we’re like. No longer will the ATF come breaking down your door or trying to get, you know, going through and, you know, creating their own work by then saying, oh, it’s fine. And no, it’s not. And then going after innocent people who are making a purchase. It’s the level all these things. I just tell these people. This is as pro-gun as we could possibly get with this administration at the moment. And there’s still more to come, because we’re in the second year. We’re just starting the second year. Evan Nappen 36:21 I know. I know it’s just the beginning of our Christmas gift list of fun. So, it’s great. All right, well, so long as we keep making progress, which we are. But let me tell you about this week’s GOFU, which is, of course, the Gun Owners Fuck Up. And it’s important to know this so that you don’t end up having an expensive lesson learned, where you get to learn it on the cheap. You get to learn it free from the show. So, these are based on actual cases, actual clients, actual real GOFUs that I’ve seen. This week’s GOFU has to do with make sure you know the dates of your gun purchases, because New Jersey has Page – 12 – of 13 one gun a month, right? One handgun within a 30-day period. You can’t get more than that. So, I always look at one gun a month as kind of the gun of the month where you have to buy one every 30 days. But whether or not you want to take that approach or not, the problem is, don’t attempt purchase within the 30 days, even by accident, because it’ll have ramifications. It gets picked up on because of how the system is designed. If you even inadvertently end up in that more than one gun within 30 days, you can have serious problems. So, be very cautious. I’ve even had debates over the counting in terms of hours for the difference. Make sure you have a good buffer in there until we knock that law out as unconstitutional, which it really should be. I don’t want to see you have a GOFU in which the purchase within the 30 days triggers an escalation to seizure, revocation and possible criminal charges. The whole nine yards coming down on your head. Keep the count of days accurate and clear. Evan Nappen 37:07 This is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens. Speaker 2 37:30 Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state. Page – 13 – of 13 Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S5 E272_Transcript About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets. Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News. As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists. He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America. Email Evan Your Comments and Questions  [email protected] Join Evan’s InnerCircleHere’s your chance to join an elite group of the Savviest gun and knife owners in America.  Membership is totally FREE and Strictly CONFIDENTIAL.  Just enter your email to start receiving insider news, tips, and other valuable membership benefits.   Email (required) *First Name *Select list(s) to subscribe toInnerCircle Membership Yes, I would like to receive emails from Gun Lawyer Podcast. (You can unsubscribe anytime)Constant Contact Use. Please leave this field blank.var ajaxurl = "https://gun.lawyer/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php";

  Episode 271- New Year – New Challenges Also Available OnSearchable Podcast Transcript Gun Lawyer — Episode Transcript Gun Lawyer — Episode 271 Transcript SUMMARY KEYWORDS Second Amendment, New Jersey, gun oppression, Bruen decision, carry permits, violent crime, John Petrolino, high capacity magazines, gun training, NRA classes, self-defense, gun laws, gun rights, gun ownership, legal battles, gun journalist. SPEAKERS Teddy Nappen, Speaker 2, Evan Nappen Evan Nappen 00:15 I’m Evan Nappen. Teddy Nappen 00:16 And I’m Teddy Nappen. Evan Nappen 00:18 And welcome to Gun Lawyer. Well, I want to thank all of my listeners and supporters, because on The Gundies Award for Podcast of the Year, I’m proud to tell you that Gun Lawyer has made the top five. And so, as one of the top five nominees, we are now in the running to see whether or not we win the Podcast of the Year. But I’m very honored to have made the top five, and I appreciate all of you that took the time to vote for Gun Lawyer. It’s a great way of getting a statement out there about what we believe in and what we fight for here. You know, our show does have a lot to do with what’s going on with New Jersey, because New Jersey is, as you know, the worst state in the country when it comes to oppression of our Second Amendment rights. And by bringing more and more attention to it, we shine that disinfectant of truth out there. So, this is important, and we want to keep up the keep the pressure. Teddy Nappen 01:44 Do you know what we should do for when we for the awards, we don’t go to accept it. We instead send a couple people who are recently released from the Gun Owner Gulag to accept the award. Yeah, like Marlon Brando sent Evan Nappen 02:00 Yeah, right. We’ll send someone from the Gulag to accept the award. I spent three months just to get out, even though I was innocent of all charges. You know, it’s just insane what New Jersey is doing. We’ll be reporting on the new laws that the Governor has yet to sign, but it appears that he will sign further oppression of our Second Amendment rights in New Jersey. And what you have to be aware of so you can protect yourself, because it is really just the extreme government action focused on attacking the Constitution. I mean, that’s what New Jersey is doing. It’s a fact. They try to contrive every conceivable angle to further deteriorate a Constitutional right. Instead of doing everything they can to Page – 1 – of 10 try to protect it, they do everything they can to try to diminish it. That’s the evil of what the New Jersey government is all about, and that’s really what it is. Evan Nappen 03:18 It is anti-rights, anti-Constitution. They are oppressors, and good people suffer. Good, law-abiding citizens suffer. This isn’t an academic exercise. Real people go to jail. Real people have their lives destroyed. Real people have their careers destroyed, their freedom taken and their families destroyed, over this garbage that New Jersey does in turning law-abiding citizens into criminals. I see it every day in the practice of New Jersey gun law. And the purpose of gun law, Gun Lawyer, of this radio show, is to bring attention to this. To help you, the listener, protect yourself from the evil oppression that is New Jersey. And they will, without any care, destroy you if they can, to promote their agenda, their agenda of destroying guns and gun owners. And this is what I see. Okay? This isn’t just hyperbole. It isn’t some made up fantasy. It is literally what I see happening to individuals as I practice in the, in this very area of New Jersey gun law. And it shows you when you have states that are following this agenda, how they destroy good people. So, you’ve got to be careful, especially in New Jersey. But do not give up. Maintain the fight. Stay vigilant. It’s critical. In the big picture, we are winning. New Jersey is going to get its head handed to it. I’m confident in the court decisions that we’ll be seeing. We will succeed. But in the meantime, it’s a battle. I want to see the least amount of casualties on our side in this battle, but it’s a battle nonetheless. Evan Nappen 05:24 And on that point recently, there was an article by one of my favorite writers, Dean Weingarten, who posted this in AmmoLand. He makes a very interesting point about what happened to the homicide rate after the Supreme Court’s Bruen decision. (https://www.ammoland.com/2025/12/what-happened-to-the- homicide-rate-after-the-supreme-courts-bruen-decision/) So, you know, we have this great Second Amendment decision in Bruen that establishes our right to self-defense outside the home and that actually finally enables the carry permits to have to be issued by the anti-gun oppression states like New Jersey that were using the trick of “justifiable need” to stop law-abiding citizens from being able to have a gun to defend themselves, and the legal barrier that the courts created knowingly to oppress rights was working. Evan Nappen 06:25 You know, we had less than 600 carry licenses. And the Bruen decision handily eliminated that, so that licenses had to be issued. Now we’re in the, you know, 60, 70, 80,000 licenses. The number is hard to pinpoint, but it’s constantly growing. And this is great that so many citizens now can be defenders instead of victims. But New Jersey, of course, embarked on trying to limit where you can use your carry. Hence, the “sensitive places”. This crazy matrix of where you can and can’t carry which is also the subject of a court challenge, and we should be seeing some great outcome there, as the, as the Appellate Court has taken on that issue again. Seeing New Jersey’s gun laws go up in flames and go to the garbage can, the garbage heap of history where they belong. Evan Nappen 07:29 But this article from Dean Weingarten about what happened to the homicide rate after the Bruen decision is really very interesting, because it’s a very interesting question. I mean, what this goes to is, Page – 2 – of 10 every time there is anything that is pro-gun rights, pro-enforcing our Constitutional rights, anything that expands our ability to exercise our rights, the anti-rights crowd, the oppressors, will shout what I call BITS, bits. Which is Blood In The Streets. There’ll be blood in the streets. You know, this is going to be the Wild West. This is going to be, you know, just the sky is falling, right? Every time, every time. And so, of course, the prediction was, if we have carry, we’re going to have blood in the streets. And it’s going to be terrible and all this mayhem. And guess what? The opposite, of course, the opposite. The opposite happened. Evan Nappen 08:31 Because as Dean points out in his article, it says. “As of the latest numbers of October 2025, the 12- month running average of violent crime has dropped 14% since June of 2022. The drop in murders is even more pronounced at 39%. The numbers are from the tools provided by the Real Time Crime Index.” How about that, folks? Murder down 39%. Violent crime down 14%. This is tracking, as you and I always knew it would, when law-abiding citizens can defend themselves. Now, of course, it’s not the only reason that violent crime and murders have gone down, but it is absolutely a contributing factor. And the antis are always quick to say. Well, if it just saves one life, we need to. Well, guess what? How many lives have now been saved by the expansion of our rights to carry and defend ourselves since the Bruen decision? Way more than one life, that’s for sure. Lots of lives, lots of lives are being saved because of Constitutional freedom being expanded and protected and preserved. So, this is important to recognize and to force our adversaries to face the fact that guns save lives. That trained law-abiding citizens are lifesavers, and that firearms are protection that is effective. Not just to that individual defending themselves or their families, but in the big picture, the statistics themselves speak to the benefit of it. Evan Nappen 10:54 Hey, I would also like to mention our good friend, John Petrolino, who does amazing journalistic work. And it’s not just me saying that. I’m happy to mention that John recently was given an award, and actually more than one from the New Jersey Society of Professional Journalists. (https://bearingarms.com/camedwards/2025/12/30/petrolinos-coverage-of-new-jersey-2a-issues-earns- accolades-from-surprising-source-n1231070) They announced winners of the 2025 Excellence in Journalism Awards. And we’re talking about winners that include the New York Times, the Asbury Park Press and Politico. Evan Nappen 11:39 Well, lo and behold, there’s John Petrolino, one of the contributors for Bearing Arms and a great writer. He really has done tremendous work in New Jersey, and he won first place for “Best Coverage of State Government” for his series of articles highlighting abuses of the “shall issue” carry permit system. These very abuses of which demonstrate institutionalized racism. He documented excessive wait times and how the number of black applicants are discriminated against. And this research was, in fact, corroborated by the group Rise Against Hate, which, you know, they’re normally not a 2A group. And he won first place also for “Best Coverage of Municipal Government for his Bearing Arms story “Permit to Carry Denial Over a Driving Record?” And he’s really gotten praise here from his fellow journalists, and I think it’s great. Because not only does he deserve it, but imagine, you know, we’re talking about real journalism here, not the propaganda that the lamestream media throws at us. I mean, we’re talking Page – 3 – of 10 about real journalism that puts out a product that is otherwise not being seen, and in doing so, aids our Second Amendment rights and helps fight the oppression with the disinfectant of truth. John, congratulations on your awards. That is just really great, because when you win, we win, and it gets the message out. So, that’s a great job, and we’re proud of you. Evan Nappen 13:56 Hey, let me mention our good friends at WeShoot. WeShoot is a range in Lakewood, and they have got some great specials focused on training, including some great price drops. They are putting forward new prices to save money to get folks training. They’re doing it to make training easier and less expensive. So, they’re offering the USCCA and NRA CCW classes now at $225 down from $299. So, it’s even more affordable. This includes the New Jersey concealed carry class as well. You can get your CCARE and get your carry permit. They are great. That’s where Teddy and I got our certification from. And right there at WeShoot. They’re offering dates for both the NRA and doing your renewals for your carry permits, and they even have carry certification for seniors. They do a special seniors class. Evan Nappen 15:14 They are magnificent in their training programs that they offer. They offer also their HSI Adult CPR / AED certification course. You’ll earn a two-year certification on that. You’re learning how to perform CPR and AED, you know, defibrillator use, and handle basic first aid, respond to choking and cardiac arrest and such. So, if you want to get your training in all these areas and many others, and also just learning to shoot better, they are the place to go. WeShoot is conveniently located in Lakewood, right off the Parkway. You can go to wehootusa.com, weshootusa.com, and check out their website. Beautiful photography. They also have a great pro shop. They have lots of great guns and great deals. They will take care of you. You’ll be able to have a great place to shoot and enjoy relaxation at the range. And you’ll know that you are able to defend yourself and your loved ones should the need arise. But also go there and have some fun. Evan Nappen 16:41 Let me also tell you about our good friends at the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. They are fighting very, very hard in a very challenging environment, and they are the key gun rights group in New Jersey. They are the NRA State Affiliate. They’re the umbrella organization of gun clubs through the state, but they also have individual members. Everybody needs to be a member of the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. You’ll get their fantastic email alerts, and you’ll get a great newsletter. You’ll also know that you’re part of the solution fighting. They’re going to send you out things you can do real quick to make your voice heard as we continue the fight. And we’ve made a difference. The Association has made a difference. We’re still in a major battle, but the Association is there in the courts, as we speak, fighting on those key issues in the Appellate Courts. Evan Nappen 17:40 As we are talking right now, they’re there in the courts. We’re seeing some incredible results, and we’re going to see even more incredible results. I am extremely optimistic that the courts are going to really deliver for us. The truth is on our side. The law is on our side. The Supreme Court has laid out the groundwork that is all on our side. And the Association is truly on our side, working for the elimination of Page – 4 – of 10 Second Amendment oppression, especially on those key issues that affect so many of us. So, join the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs at anjrpc.org. Evan Nappen 18:33 And don’t forget to get a copy of my book, New Jersey Gun Law. It’s the bible of New Jersey gun law. Get your book today. Go to EvanNappen.com. It’s the big orange book that is the Bible of New Jersey gun law. It’s a book used by everybody, and you need to have a copy so that you can protect yourself. It is the only book out there that describes New Jersey gun law in a question and answer format so that it is actually almost understandable. How’s that? You can almost understand it from that book. Now, I tried to make it as user- friendly as I can, but New Jersey, of course, itself, is just contradictory in many of its own laws. I try to point it out in the book, when they are saying one thing and then saying another. The contradictions seem to just fly out because they just can’t pass new gun laws fast enough, and they don’t bother to make sure that they actually make sense, right? So, that’s where the book comes in. You’ll be able to know these distinctions and protect yourself. When you get the book, scan the QR code on the front cover and join, for free, my private subscriber base. You’ll get updates, and you’ll be able to access the archives for any previous updates that are there. This way the book will stay current because of that. So, go to EvanNappen.com and order your copy today. Hey, Teddy, what do you have for us today? Teddy Nappen 20:11 Well, as you know, Press Checks are always free, and I always want to see what is the Left, what is the argument they are making now? What is the push that they are trying to go for? Well, it seems they’ve gone and changed their tactics. They are now focusing in on high capacity magazines, or as what you know and everyone else knows them to be, standard capacity magazines. Because it’s just another made up term that they use. But going to The Trace to see their newest argument, I love this, by the way. “How Gun Manufacturers Swamped the Market With Large-Capacity Magazines” (https://www.thetrace.org/2025/12/large-capacity-magazine-nssf-gun-study/) Yes, that’s who is to blame for why there is such a high demand of a quote, unquote high capacity magazines. It’s the gun manufacturers. That’s who’s to blame. So, this article is by Mike Spies in The Trace. They start off with “At least 717 million devices like the one used in the Brown University mass shooting . . . ” Oh, well, there you go. Immediately. The first line. Evan Nappen 21:23 All they do is sell emotion. They’re just selling it as emotion. What about, you know. Do you know what a small, virtually, statistically irrelevant, it’s so small, the number of magazines, of a magazine that holds whatever they’re calling high capacity of that day, whatever that may be, was the reason, was the effect for that crime. Because the magazine held a certain amount of rounds. That is somehow the reason for the crime. It is a statistical irrelevancy. It is pure emotion. Teddy Nappen 22:07 I wonder how they, I wonder how they feel about in Australia, where it took, you know, two guys with a couple of bolt actions. And, you know, I think the body count was what? Double from Brown. But no, sorry, don’t talk about that. Page – 5 – of 10 Evan Nappen 22:20 Right. Teddy Nappen 22:21 Mind you they try to highlight this. Oh, man, Dad, did you know that between 1990 to 2021, the gun industry flooded the market with 717 detachable firearm magazines that held 11 rounds or more. You see, Dad, prior to 1990, there were no magazines that held over 11 rounds. Evan Nappen 22:46 That’s what it was? None. There was suddenly a flood. Teddy Nappen 22:52 A flooding, as a flooding. Then describe what the term a magazine, you know, for anyone doesn’t understand. And then tried to make the argument that not all manufacturers of gun magazines provided data to the study to stipulate the figures representing conservative estimates that military and law enforcement sales were not counted, and roughly 46% of magazines were accounted for from some 443 million, including rifle magazines that held 30 rounds or more. Evan Nappen 23:26 Okay. So, if we have millions and millions and millions of magazines that hold over 10 rounds, do you know how few isolated events, just think of how many few events? They get a ton of media coverage, but how few those events are. And even in those events, what statistical difference did it make that they had a magazine that held more than 10 rounds in commission of that crime? It is so rare and to have to this be of anything, of any real impact, of any true impact, yet it’s pure emotion there. So, oh my God, all these magazines are out there. Yeah, well, so what? So, what? They don’t make a difference. The only time it makes a difference is to the individual who needs to defend themselves. Then the issue of firepower is important in one’s own self-defense. So, when magazines are limited, the question you have to ask is, well, how many bullets is your life worth? In other words, how many bullets can you have to defend your life? Your Government has arbitrarily determined that your life is only worth 10 bullets. No more than 10, just 10. That’s all it’s worth. You’re not worth 11 bullets or 12 or anything more. That’s really what they are saying. Teddy Nappen 25:00 They also seem to stress this whole idea that magazines were only at 10 rounds until 1990, and they’re trying to make that argument. Well, thanks to again, always, when the left make their argument, use context and history, and that is how it is debunked. Right here from, I believe, you said this was a very well known writer, Dave Kopel. Evan Nappen 25:29 Absolutely. David Kopel. Page – 6 – of 10 Teddy Nappen 25:30 He wrote a brilliant article, which I highly recommend people read, “The History of Firearm Magazines and Magazine Prohibition”. (https://davekopel.org/2A/LawRev/2015/History-of-firearms-magazines-and- magazine-prohibition.pdf) Evan Nappen 25:33 Well, it must be a short history, since it only began in 1990. Teddy Nappen 25:44 No, no, let’s start with. Evan Nappen 25:46 Oh, really. Teddy Nappen 25:47 Yeah, you know, let’s go all the way back to 1580. Evan Nappen 25:51 Oh, 1580. Wow, how did they miss that? Teddy Nappen 25:55 I know. With the multi-shot guns. And then cut to the patent pending, 1718, of the Puckle Gun, shooting, you know, 23. Evan Nappen 26:05 I love the Puckle gun. Teddy Nappen 26:06 You know, it used 11 pre-loaded cylinders. And then cut over to everyone’s favorite, the Lewis and Clark air rifle, the Girandoni, that had a detachable magazine. Evan Nappen 26:20 And air guns are firearms in New Jersey. So, it would still considered a firearm. Yeah. Teddy Nappen 26:27 Yeah. So, and cut over to the Alexander Hall and Colonel Parry Porter rifles that were 15-shot rotating cylinder. But they may say, oh, it’s not detachable, though. Even though it’s well beyond the capacity, and you know this is only 1850. Cut over now to the 1866 chain pistol fed , 20 round, belt fed chain pistol. Imagine carrying that? Evan Nappen 27:00 I like that. Page – 7 – of 10 Teddy Nappen 27:01 Yeah. And then cut now to 1899 with the, or 1900 when they were commercially available, the Luger semi- automatic pistols that, you know, could use a seven or eight round magazine or a, you know, their version of a high capacity 32 drum mag. Evan Nappen 27:21 Oooh, the old snail drum mag for the Luger. Teddy Nappen 27:25 And then cut to 1927 where you could go to Auto Ordinance for a 30 round mag. Evan Nappen 27:32 Or a 50 or 100. That’s right. Teddy Nappen 27:35 In 1927, you know? Well, we’re getting, we’re getting closer. You’re getting around that time. But now to 1963, with the AR-15 rifle, with the 20 rounds, a little higher than that, to 30 round magazine capacity. Which to the point, where there was a famous (Supreme Court) case, Staples versus United States, where they were trying, where it differentiated from the AR-15 to the M 16. They tried to blend machine gun to semi auto. Evan Nappen 28:06 Well, they did that on purpose — to fool the public. It was even admitted in Josh Sugarmann’s book. He said that was the intention — to fool the public, who won’t be able to tell the difference between full auto and semi- auto. Machine guns and semi autos. It’ll fool them, because that’s what they’re about. They just want to fool the public to get their agenda through. Teddy Nappen 28:27 Because they, because the Left have this whole ideology, which is the people are stupid and we can manipulate them. Unfortunately, yeah, there’s a lot of people that aren’t read up on it and get easily tricked. They play off of emotions and that’s how they play their game. Luckily, now, thanks to the internet and people being able to do their own research. Even though they’ve, you know, censored, but we’ve fought back hard on that, people can actually see and look up and find out. Oh, yeah, wait. They just lied to me. Here’s the proof. It’s very easy now to debunk their lies, and it’s quite hilarious. Teddy Nappen 29:08 And then I love the ending to it all. I love his ending to the whole article, which is we end this story now in 1979. Jimmy Carter is president, and Gaston Glock is making curtain rods in his garage. Now, look right now. Evan Nappen 29:28 Oh, no, the Glock pistol is coming. Page – 8 – of 10 Teddy Nappen 29:30 Yeah, the Glock pistol is coming. And then all magazine which, and then all polymers. It just comes down to this. The magazines, high capacity magazines, have existed throughout history, and they will continue to exist. Because when they try to sell their argument about high capacity magazines, you know, they will forever be out there. Evan Nappen 29:59 What’s going to happen when it is just laser, and it can be endless? Just how much power. There won’t even be a capacity limit. It’ll just be limitless, essentially. Evan Nappen 30:13 I’m so. Sorry, my wife is always about the teleporter, where you won’t even need to load the mag. You’ll just point the gun and it’ll teleport the bullet into you, like. Evan Nappen 30:24 Oh, that sounds like a real accuracy improvement. Teddy Nappen 30:27 I know. So, again, technology will always progress more and more, and they will never be able to keep it. I can’t wait for the National Ray Gun Association. I think it was a Futurama joke. Evan Nappen 30:39 A National Ray Gun Association. That’s good. Evan Nappen 30:46 So, you know, one of the key things we like to do is have our listeners stay protected and not end up a GOFU. And unfortunately, GOFUs are Gun Owner Fuck Ups. They’re expensive lessons that you get to learn on the cheap. You get to learn for free, so you don’t commit the same error, the same fuck up. And so this week’s GOFU, something that, you know these come from actual cases, actual experience, actual folks that I’m representing. And it’s really a principle here today, and that is, don’t escalate the situation. Don’t be the person that initiates a problem that can be avoided. If you can avoid a conflict, you need to avoid the conflict. You cannot engage in a manner the way you used to, let’s say, before you were armed. Evan Nappen 31:56 Because you are armed, you’re essentially having to walk away. If something is just verbal, whatever, don’t escalate it. Don’t engage further. Because then what happens is you, as a gun owner, become the target of the law enforcement action, even though you weren’t the one who may have even initiated it. But if you escalated and went along with whatever this problem was that even got created or started by another person, you end up having to pay the price. I see this often where a law-abiding gun owner has an argument with somebody, and the law-abiding gun owner is in the right. The law-abiding gun owner doesn’t do anything wrong, but the other party somehow sees, notices, believes, thinks, that the gun owner has a gun, and then claims to the police that they saw the gun. You threatened them with the gun. They felt intimidated by the gun, whatever. Page – 9 – of 10 Evan Nappen 33:19 And it’s now escalated to where the gun owner gets charged with threatening, brandishing, whatever, and you just see it take off as an escalation. You need to learn to ignore all the jackasses that are out there that cause trouble, that act stupid. You have to take a different kind of attitude to ignore these people. Ignore them. Unless you are being threatened with serious bodily injury or death, where you have no other option, then ignore these people. Get away from these folks that are just trouble. Because if it comes around that you’re a gun owner, and there’s an issue, I see it. The tables turn on the gun owner all the time. Stay low key. Stay discreet. Don’t escalate. Stay away from these people that get law-abiding citizens into trouble because of the built in bias in the system against gun owners. Evan Nappen 33:42 This is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens. Speaker 2 34:25 Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state. Page – 10 – of 10 Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S3 E271_Transcript About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets. Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News. As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists. He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America. Email Evan Your Comments and Questions  [email protected] Join Evan’s InnerCircleHere’s your chance to join an elite group of the Savviest gun and knife owners in America.  Membership is totally FREE and Strictly CONFIDENTIAL.  Just enter your email to start receiving insider news, tips, and other valuable membership benefits.   Email (required) *First Name *Select list(s) to subscribe toInnerCircle Membership Yes, I would like to receive emails from Gun Lawyer Podcast. (You can unsubscribe anytime)Constant Contact Use. Please leave this field blank.var ajaxurl = "https://gun.lawyer/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php";

  Episode 270- Securing Your 2026 Also Available OnSearchable Podcast Transcript Gun Lawyer — Episode 270 Transcript SUMMARY KEYWORDS Security evaluation, electronic security, physical security, camera surveillance, alarm systems, firearm safety, mental state, personal protection, dog security, property defense, legal implications, pet rights, self-defense, gun laws, New Jersey gun law. SPEAKERS Evan Nappen, Teddy Nappen, Speaker 2 Evan Nappen 00:14 I’m Evan Nappen. Teddy Nappen 00:16 and I’m Teddy Nappen. Evan Nappen 00:18 and welcome to Gun Lawyer. So, 2026 is just about upon us, and what’s really great to do at the beginning of the year is to take a look at your own security for yourself and your family as we start this new year. And as you know, it’s dangerous out there and you know, we’re gun owners, and we believe in defense and self-defense. There are things we need to do that include guns, but also don’t include guns when it comes to evaluating your own personal security, which is something that we all should be very concerned about. So, when you want to think about your security, particularly in your home and through your life, there are two ways to divide security. You have what is electronic security and then what we might call physical security. Evan Nappen 01:25 So, electronic security would include lighting, alarm systems, and cameras. That kind of security falls into, you know, surveillance and warnings and illumination and really is reliant upon electronic security. In terms of physical security, we have gun safes and other safes, dogs. Dogs are a form of physical security. Locks, good locks, good bars on windows where it may be needed. And of course, our firearms are the last resort of our physical security. And the idea is to have an excellent combination of both physical and electronic security. You want to cover all the bases to give you a full security umbrella. And, of course, combined into all this is your mental state, and for that, I would highly recommend Jeff Cooper’s “The Principles of Personal Protection”. You’ll gain insight into your daily life and what you need to do to have awareness and those principles. Evan Nappen 02:58 But these areas of electronic and physical security are very critical, especially today. Also, you know, electronic security, a lot of it, combines computers and our cell phones, too, as well. And so, with what’s available today, it’s kind of amazing, because it is very reasonable to have camera surveillance. I Page – 1 – of 10mean, you know, a number of decades ago, if you wanted to have cameras on your property, protecting your home, etc, it was tens of thousands of dollars. It was basically not within reach of average people to have that kind of surveillance. But now, with the advent of the internet and with these smaller, amazingly effective cameras, you know, particularly Ring and other companies, you can absolutely have great, actually, camera surveillance better than decades ago with the equipment that existed then, and for just a fraction, a fraction of the price. I mean, every person should have at least a Ring doorbell or some equivalent to that, so that you know who’s coming to your door. It films motion and those individuals that may approach, and not just individuals, but also animals, cars, and other things. This is a really great advance in modern-day technology, not just in what it does, but in the amazing, reasonable cost that you can get it done and accomplished for. Evan Nappen 04:58 Of course, there are other cameras that can work into your floodlights. Floodlights that also record and are motion driven and part of the system, the alarm system itself, which is great. Very easy to self install and put in a Ring alarm system. And they work very well. And you know, not to have an alarm system in your house with the availability of just a Ring alarm system or something else for electronic, you know, other brands too, that are out there, Simply Safe and others, is really a serious mistake, because you can get yourself and your family electronic protection at a very reasonable cost today. I mean, look, decades ago, you had to hire a professional alarm company. They had to hard wire, and they had to do all the switches, all that. What they have available today is amazing and very effective. It can give you that added peace of mind, and you can combine it with the cameras, both inside cameras outside cameras and other motion detectors. Evan Nappen 06:07 All kinds of things are out there that you can do yourself pretty darn easily and give yourself the protection. You want to combine that protection with good lighting. Lighting is also very important. Lighting helps discourage theft and other bad people. It illuminates them, and also the camera records them. It can also give you advance warning of individuals that come into your perimeter by both the camera surveillance and by the alarm itself. I mean, you know, you go to sleep at night. You have your cameras, and you turn on the perimeter of your alarm. You’re protecting yourself and your family. And you know that the physical security becomes important. You have the good locks. You have your valuables stored in safes. You hopefully have your dog or dogs, and you have your firearms. When you have that gamut of protection, both electronic and physical, you know that you’re maximizing your ability to defend yourself and your loved ones. These things today can be accomplished at a very reasonable cost, and there’s really no reason that an average person cannot have security that decades ago would have been tens of thousands of dollars. This is the new world. Evan Nappen 07:45 And not only that, it combines into apps on your phone. You’re able to control your alarm away from your home, turning it on and off. You can see what activity is going on. You’re able to look at the cameras. You don’t have to even be at your house, and you can surveil and see and get notice. It is really an amazing time when you consider what’s available in electronic security and in physical security, with the better locks, enforcers that can be added to doors. Things that can be not even as obvious, but adding tremendous security. And this is a mindset, folks. It’s a mindset for the new year. Page – 2 – of 10You should do your own security evaluation of your home and your property. Look to see if you have bushes or trees that block the view from the road, where persons can break in through a window and not be seen. Look at your lighting. Take a look. Is it lit up? Well, look at your cameras and the angles and areas that are covered by your outdoor cameras, by your floodlight cameras. Look at where you have cameras inside your home. Now, you want to be aware of your own privacy, and that’s very important. But there are places in your home that you don’t frequent all the time, basements, garages, etc., where you can have cameras to even provide interior protection should an intruder come in. These are things to consider in the full picture of your security. Evan Nappen 09:26 And if you’re able to have a dog, let me tell you, dogs can make a huge difference. You know, in surveys they’ve done on felons and criminals and such, they ask what they’re most afraid of? Well, the number one thing that criminals are afraid of is an armed homeowner. That’s right. Number one thing they’re afraid of is a homeowner with a gun. So, right there is an important deterrent factor. The second thing that felons, criminals, etc. are most afraid of is two dogs. Believe it or not, two dogs really freaks them out. That gets their attention. But even having one dog is very important, because dogs bark. Dogs are keenly aware. Their senses are better than yours and mine, superior. And dogs are an alert system. I know of cases, actual cases, where individuals were looking to do a hot robbery and, even worse, commit murder, just to randomly kill, and they went to canvas homes. And homes that had dogs they avoided, and they hit the home that didn’t have a dog. It wouldn’t matter if the home they came to had a little yapper that was barking, they avoided that home just because of the dog being there as an alert system. So, dogs are very important, very critical. I would highly recommend having a dog. The other thing is dogs, you know, they are loyal, and depending on your type of dog, most of the dogs designed for security, will happily give their life to save yours. And dogs can buy the time in between the bad guys wanting to harm you and your family, for you to get to your gun to have the ultimate protection. Evan Nappen 11:42 So, these are things you need to consider when you look at your own security and your own physical security of yourself and your family. At the beginning of the year, it’s a good time to think about it and figure how secure are you? Ask yourself, how secure are you when you go to sleep at night? Do you feel secure? Do you have camera surveillance? Do you have alarm surveillance? Do you have a dog on the lookout? Do you have your firearms? Do you know how to use them? Are you trained? And do other members of your family understand how to use these things as well? Think about these things. I want all my listeners to be safe and protected, and these are things that can help you and may make the difference. So, stay safe in ’26, folks. It’s going to be an interesting year, that’s for sure. Evan Nappen 12:36 And with the Big Beautiful Bill kicking in, with no more NFA tax, and with very interesting court cases proceeding, we may be able to enhance our security even more with guns and accessories that the Second Amendment oppressors have tried to stop us from having. So, stay tuned. Teddy, what do you have for us today? Page – 3 – of 10Teddy Nappen 13:07 Well, as you know, Press Checks are always free, and this is something that kind of came up as I was flipping through. This is actually an issue. We kind of talked about the whole idea of defensive property. So, this is out of Pennsylvania, from Kinship News by Petrana Radulovic. (https://www.kinship.com/news/pennsylvania-pets-are-family-divorce) Pennsylvania House passed a bill saying pets are family members, not objects. I’m not joking. Evan Nappen 13:45 Well, pets are normally viewed as property. Teddy Nappen 13:47 Yeah. Evan Nappen 13:48 Now they’re declaring pets to be family members. Teddy Nappen 13:53 Yep, the article talks. Evan Nappen 13:54 Can I take them as a deduction on my income tax? Teddy Nappen 13:57 I don’t know. This is the thing, though, it opens up that gate. Well, it may just might because in Pennsylvania, the House passed a new bill classifying pets as living beings that are generally guarded as cherished family members. In the bill. Evan Nappen 14:17 Cherished family members. Teddy Nappen 14:19 During divorce proceedings. There’s the caveat. Evan Nappen 14:23 Oh, okay. Teddy Nappen 14:24 It’s House Bill 92, and it passed with 121 over 82. Now going for the Senate. The argument was that the statute for special category for companion animals, where judges would then be legally required to consider the welfare of the pets when it comes to which individual gets custody. (https://pawprintoxygen.com/blogs/healthy-paws/pennsylvania-pet-custody-law-update) It’s literally taking. Page – 4 – of 10Evan Nappen 14:49 Well, some people are very attached to our dogs. We get very emotionally attached. Teddy Nappen 14:55 But it takes the whole stage of who gets the dog to a whole new level. Evan Nappen 15:00 Yeah, I guess it does. Well, maybe you can request visitation for your dog. But the problem is, well, it could be beneficial, because if it’s viewed that way, and gun owners defend their dog from harm. It’s actually may, down the road, maybe raise it to the same as protecting a human. So, that given how emotionally attached we are to our dogs, that defending our dog, you know, but it also, you know, basically it’s John Wick. It’s the entire premise of John Wick, huh, when it comes to that, as to your dog being harmed. Teddy Nappen 15:49 Well, I look at it as the slippery slope where they say it’s a fallacy, but in actuality, just because the amount of things that have opened the floodgates, cut to transgender, men can become women. You can cut to any subject where it’s like, well, they didn’t look at the unintended consequences of these actions. Where, right now, it opens that door, where could dogs not be considered property. Could you defend your dog in a self-defense? And funny enough, right out of here, out of USA Carry, it was a whole article by Brian Armstrong. “Can you use deadly force to protect your pet?” And it was one of those where he brings up a variety of scenarios where, generally speaking, if someone’s attacking your dog, you can’t just shoot them. Evan Nappen 16:41 Right. Because the dog is property, and yet, maybe we’ll see that turn around if dogs start being treated as family members under the law. But it does open it up to, well, if we start treating them as people, then how can you know, what if you have to put your dog down? Like you can’t take your kid to have them put down, right? Because that’s a person. But what about a dog or a cat, etc.? And by the way, why are we excluding cats? Do cats get covered under this, too? Cats aren’t going to be considered family members? Teddy Nappen 17:19 It says pets, so I guess dogs and cats. Evan Nappen 17:20 Oh, so wait a minute. So, any pet? Teddy Nappen 17:26 Any pet. Like my pet rock, my pet Scorpion. Evan Nappen 17:29 See now it starts to open up. Gerbils, horses, right? Page – 5 – of 10Teddy Nappen 17:37 It’s one of those. But. Evan Nappen 17:38 My pet alligator. My comfort Gator. Teddy Nappen 17:42 However, I do look at some of the positives. I know we had this whole back and forth on the right of defending property, and I think this could open things up for that. Where people could have the right in using lethal force to defend property. It’s one of those that I would like to see them iron that out more. Even in the article, he was bringing up scenarios where you could have that situation. He brought up, like a man’s walking down and you see a dog attacking your dog, and where you have that idea where you’re technically trying to defend property, from the, you know, you can shoot like wild animals attacking your dog. Evan Nappen 18:20 Well, in some states, they have laws allowing you to shoot dogs that are wild, that are feral, that attack deer, etc. Some of that’s out there, but you know, normally, though they’re viewed as property. And if we’re going to start giving them status as humans that can cut both ways. It can be problematic too. Because if an individual then shoots a dog, they may face penalties as if they shot a person. Teddy Nappen 19:01 I know. Your very first case. This is the exact issue, actually. Evan Nappen 19:04 Exactly, exactly, exactly my very first case. And, yeah, well, I don’t know. Because, you know, I haven’t discussed that in a while. Maybe I should actually tell that story here, because it is a classic of one of the earliest cases. Teddy Nappen 19:26 A tale as old as time, one might say. Evan Nappen 19:29 Yeah, this is in another state, other than New Jersey. My client was shooting coyotes out his bedroom window at three o’clock in the morning over a bait and a light, which was perfectly legal in the place where he was doing it, believe it or not. But, unfortunately, there was a dog that belonged to a neighbor that lived, not really that close, but the dog, apparently, that night, decided to run with the homeboys. You know, with the coyotes. And my client, inadvertently, shot the dog thinking it was a coyote. And what he would do is he’d shoot the coyotes and leave them there so that other coyotes came and he’d shoot them, too. He didn’t go out there to retrieve dead coyotes. Well, anyway, that night, after shooting the dog, unbeknownst to him, there’s this banging on his door. A woman is there holding her dog that’s been shot. And she’s like, you shot my dog, you shot my dog. And he’s like, oh my god, I had no clue. I had no idea. I’m sorry. I’m so sorry. Page – 6 – of 10Evan Nappen 20:37 And she’s all bent about it. I mean, I can understand, you know, who wants to have their dog shot? On the other hand, she should not be letting her dog run around loose. So, she calls the police, and the police come. The police say, hey, lady, we’ve told you a half a dozen times not to let your dog run loose. So, too bad. Your dog was shot, but it’s not criminal. Goodbye. Well, she’s not to be deterred, and she calls Fish and Game. Well, it so happens that there was a Fish and Game law that had relatively recently come out about shooting a dog. If you shot a dog while hunting or any other way, you were required to call it in that a dog was shot. Anyway, this Fish and Game Officer decides to be the white knight for this woman who’s hysterical and charges my client with shooting the dog and not reporting it, etc. Now, of course, it was reported because the police had come. So, it was reported, but it didn’t stop them. Evan Nappen 21:47 So, anyway, the charge moves into the Municipal Court. We bring a motion not only based on the facts, that he arguably did have it get reported because the police came, but also that this law was, in effect, a violation of his Fifth Amendment, because it was requiring self-incrimination in mandating this reporting. And when I put this through the Fish and Game Officer who in this state, they would prosecute their own cases, a couple things. He had actually gotten sick and tired of this woman who was just incessantly hysterical and just couldn’t get over this. And he had, I think, had enough of that, and realized that we were in a constitutional area on this new law, and that there actually was arguably a reporting. So, he dismissed the case without us having to actually have the hearing. Evan Nappen 22:56 And so with the case dismissed, I walked out of the court with my client, and I’m explaining to him how he can get his gun back from the Fish and Game Officer. And this woman comes running out of the courtroom. She’s at the top of the courthouse steps. She has a dozen pictures of the dog in her fists, and she’s waving them around. She’s screaming and yelling. She comes running down the steps, and she starts pounding my client on his chest with these photos of the dog, and screaming, you killed my dog. You killed my dog. And he kind of falls backwards. I’m there, and I just try to give her a command to stop. I said stop, you know, stop. Stop that. Back off, right? Trying to just command her to stop. At which time, she turns and she points her finger at me with a fistful of dog pictures, and she says, and you his mother fucking fat attorney. At which time I said, how dare you call me an attorney. And right then and there, the bailiffs grabbed her and arrested her. They took her away. My client, I’m saying him, are you okay? Are you okay? Because he’s still on the ground, and he goes, yeah, I’m okay. Man, I’m just laughing so hard I can’t get up. So, that is the famous dog shooting case. True story. Evan Nappen 24:39 And anyway, well, Teddy, we’ll see what happens about dogs taking on human status. But I want to mention our good friends at WeShoot. Teddy Nappen 24:52 It could be a voting block. Page – 7 – of 10Evan Nappen 24:54 Yeah, it could be. I wouldn’t be surprised since the Democrats are losing their illegal alien voting base. Maybe this is part of their plan. Maybe we got to get dogs to vote. But they might, who knows? Dogs are pretty smart. They probably wouldn’t vote Democrat, except for maybe some poodles. I don’t know. Sometimes they’re pretty smart, too. Maybe they’d go the right way. Teddy Nappen 25:17 A lot of golden retrievers. Evan Nappen 25:19 Yeah. Well, yeah. Well, what do you think about that? Well, goldens are pretty good. I don’t know. I don’t want to be insulting to goldens. Teddy Nappen 25:25 They’re very loving, but they’re very stupid. Evan Nappen 25:27 They are. Oh, my god. Do you know how much hate mail you’re gonna get for saying that? We love all dogs. Teddy Nappen 25:34 I’m not saying I don’t love them. I’m just saying, like golden retrievers are so. Evan Nappen 25:35 Well, they better not be only, only Democrat Golden Retrievers. We will not. Teddy Nappen 25:42 German, the German Shepherds, though, those are crazy smart, where they were open, you know, the door. Evan Nappen 25:47 The Dems will claim that the German Shepherds are fascist, racist, of course. You know, extreme right. I could just hear it. Oh, God, this is gonna get off the charts. Well, let me mention our good friends at WeShoot, who is, of course, our favorite range. Where we, you and me, Teddy. We shoot there. We train there. We got our CCARE certificates there, and lots of other good training. Great pro shop, great range. They’re located right there in Lakewood, New Jersey, right off the Parkway. Easy access. Great folks. Great environment. State of the art range, great pro shop, and a fantastic website. Go to weshootusa.com, and you can check out their website. They have all kinds of great specials and sales, and they send out news alerts and bulletins letting you know about all kinds of special deals. And actually, their emails are excellent. Even their communication is excellent with WeShoot. WeShoot members, they love we shoot, and I know you’ll love it, too. So, check out WeShoot. Pay them a visit. You’ll see why we shoot there, and you’ll see why it’s one of the finest ranges and best resources for gun owners right there in Central Jersey. weshootusa.com Page – 8 – of 10Evan Nappen 27:22 And I also want to mention our friends at the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. They are the premier gun rights defenders for New Jersey. They’re there in the courts, fighting as we speak. Fighting right now, in that Third Circuit Court of Appeals on the Carry Killer Law, assault firearms, and magazines. It’s great. We’re going to see some awesome results. I’m very optimistic here. We’re going to finally see New Jersey put in its place by the judiciary. This is great stuff. We can thank President Trump for that. Many of the judges that he has been, both his first term and second term, they’re making all the difference when it comes to enforcing and protecting our Second Amendment rights. And the Association is there litigating in federal court. They also have a full-time paid lobbyist in Trenton. Please make sure you join the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. anjrpc.org ANJRPC is the premier organization, folks, and when you belong to them, you’re going to get email alerts as to the shenanigans going on in Trenton, as to the progress in the litigation. You’re going to be on top of things and be able to take action as needed. So, please join. Make sure you’re a member. Evan Nappen 28:58 And let me also shamelessly promote my book, New Jersey Gun Law. It’s the Bible of New Jersey gun law, and if you don’t have a copy, you’re at a severe disadvantage, because it is the best anti-GOFU medicine there is. My book is written to protect law-abiding gun owners, to teach them what they need to know to try to remain law- abiding in the extremely challenging state of the Democratic People’s Republic of New Jersey. So, get your copy of New Jersey Gun Law by going to EvanNappen.com. Evan nappen.com. It’s the big orange book. It’s over 500 pages with 120 topics, all question and answer. Scan the front cover QR code there and join my private subscriber base. It’s private, and you will get email updates. You’ll also be able to get access to the archives. You’ll get email alerts from me as the law changes. Go to EvanNappen.com and get your copy today. Evan Nappen 30:08 So, speaking of GOFUs, what do we have this week for GOFU? Well, I’m going to tell you. We were just talking about security at the beginning of the show, but, you know, you’ve got to be careful with your own security. Because you don’t want to have GOFU if you’re using cameras. You want to be careful about your own privacy. You want to be careful about what you film. And yet, sometimes by not having cameras, you can be put at a disadvantage, and that can be a GOFU. So, the importance of your cameras can help you in a situation of self- defense, because it can demonstrate that you were justified. But at the same time, if you acted wrongly, it could be a problem. But since you are only going to act properly, it will end up documenting in video what occurred, and this has made the difference in cases that I’ve had where there have been Ring and other video that exculpate. That’s a fancy legal word for essentially proving or demonstrating innocence. Exculpating the client from certain charges. Evan Nappen 31:43 So, the GOFU can be a GOFU if it’s not used properly, but in this instance, the GOFU might become the opposite, an advantage, when used properly. So, consider that when dealing with your security situation, and think about the scenarios that you may have to deal with in how you place and distribute your cameras and your alarm. And how you take care of your guns and your dog and how you maintain physical security, by securing your firearms when they’re not being used, etc. These are all important considerations as you begin this new year, so that we can all stay safe. Page – 9 – of 10Evan Nappen 32:34 This is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens. Speaker 2 32:46 Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state. Page – 10 – of 10 Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S3 E270_Transcript About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets. Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News. As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists. He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America. Email Evan Your Comments and Questions  [email protected] Join Evan’s InnerCircleHere’s your chance to join an elite group of the Savviest gun and knife owners in America.  Membership is totally FREE and Strictly CONFIDENTIAL.  Just enter your email to start receiving insider news, tips, and other valuable membership benefits.   Email (required) *First Name *Select list(s) to subscribe toInnerCircle Membership Yes, I would like to receive emails from Gun Lawyer Podcast. (You can unsubscribe anytime)Constant Contact Use. Please leave this field blank.var ajaxurl = "https://gun.lawyer/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php";

  Episode 269- The Nightmare Before Christmas Also Available OnSearchable Podcast Transcript Gun Lawyer — Episode 269 Transcript SUMMARY KEYWORDS Second Amendment, New Jersey Democrats, gun laws, machine gun conversion devices, digital instructions, firearm components, gun owner gulag, cash bail, pre-trial detention, carry killer bill, sensitive places, gun rights, constitutional rights, gun lawyer. SPEAKERS Evan Nappen, Speaker 2, Teddy Nappen Evan Nappen 00:15 I’m Evan Nappen. Teddy Nappen 00:17 And I’m Teddy Nappen. Evan Nappen 00:19 And welcome to Gun Lawyer. So, the New Jersey Democrats are going to give gun owners a Nightmare Before Christmas. What they are doing is pushing a package of Second Amendment oppression upon us, and they decided that the perfect time to do it is right before Christmas. On Monday, December 22, the Senate will be having a voting session. They’re going to be looking at bills that we’re going to talk about right now, and you need to take action. You know, you need to let the legislators know that you oppose this. Hopefully you belong to the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. If not, you need to join. That’s anjrpc.org. They send out the news releases where you can immediately take action and let the legislature know your feelings on their oppression of our Second Amendment rights as they continue to attack them. Evan Nappen 01:33 Now, we have some very problematic laws that they’re going to be trying to jam through, and I want to make sure that you’re aware of what they are and what they mean. So, we have what is A-4974, and its companion in the Senate is S-3893. (https://www.njleg.state.nj.us/bill-search/2024/S3893) This bill establishes criminal penalties for sale and possession of machine gun conversion devices. Now, of course, these things are already banned. They’re already banned under federal law and state law, but New Jersey just can’t ban something enough, right? So, they’re just duplicating here even more bans upon bans. This is supposedly addressing so-called Glock triggers, but New Jersey usually finds a way to expand it to all kinds of other nonsense. We’ve seen these things lead off into false charges over devices that are not designed to convert to machine guns, but instead designed to simply improve accuracy and a trigger or those kind of things. So, these things are just problematic, and they’re just putting bans on top of bans. And they just want to make sure their name is on a piece of law where they’re “doing something about it”. You know, to sell red meat to their base. So, we have that to deal with. Page – 1 – of 10Evan Nappen 03:16 Additionally, we have A-4975 and the Senate companion bill is S-3894. (https://www.njleg.state.nj.us/bill-search/2024/A3894) This bill establishes a crime of possessing digital instructions to illegally manufacture firearms and firearm components. Now, keep in mind, back in 2018 Murphy signed a law banning the use and sale these digital files already, but this bill is even worse. The mere possession of the files will result in incredibly harsh penalties, even if you unknowingly possess them on a long forgotten computer, etc. So, New Jersey is turning firearm information, pure firearm digital information, into the equivalent of possessing child pornography. Simple possession of the digital file itself. Evan Nappen 04:20 It doesn’t matter that you never had any intention to actually build a firearm, but this gun information is itself being turned into contraband. Now, of course, this brings in First Amendment issues as well as Second Amendment issues, and I’m sure this will as well be subject to challenge. But nonetheless, it puts gun owners at risk that utilize internet and such for downloads of different things. Strictly for informational purposes. Even though you had no intent to 3D print a gun or not, or to use it with a CNC machine to make guns or even gun parts. So, this bill is another oppression of Second Amendment rights, and this time an oppression of First Amendment rights. But since when do Democrats care about rights? So, you need to oppose this as well. Evan Nappen 05:25 There is another bill, Assembly 4978, and the Senate companion is 3897. (https://pub.njleg.gov/Bills/2024/S4000/3897_I1.HTM) Now, this bill requires the Attorney General to report data regarding shootings that did not result in bodily injury. This type of data accumulation is used so then they can twist it into political fodder to further pass other Second Amendment oppression laws. This is their game. So, this is a step in, you know, focusing on the potential discharge law, making accidents into crimes, and using it to become automatic licensing disqualifiers, what become essentially per se felonies. This is how their evil works. This is what they do. This is their machinations, and this is the beginnings of them laying the groundwork to do that very thing. We’ve seen this playbook before, as they put data together that they then abuse in the manner that suits their purposes. So, of course, we have to fight this. Evan Nappen 06:53 Another incredibly serious other bill that’s in the Nightmare Before Christmas is Assembly 4981. The companion is S-3900. (https://www.njleg.state.nj.us/bill-search/2024/A4981) Now, this bill is a Gun Owner Gulag enhancement bill. This law will take the Gun Owner Gulag and make it even worse. So, as you should be familiar, but I want to make sure you are, New Jersey has the Gun Owner Gulag, which is New Jersey’s elimination of cash bail. In getting rid of cash bails, like so many progressive blue states took those actions to do that in the specifically during the, you know, defund police movement and all that. You normally hear about the cashless bails being utilized, where actual criminals, bona fide bad guys, you know, rapists, murders, etc, are put in a revolving door and released very quickly out in the street, particularly if they have other characteristics that the Left is favoring, such as being, you Page – 2 – of 10know, illegally in the country and things like that. They want those people out fast. So, it gets used in that way. Evan Nappen 08:15 But when it comes to weaponization of it against gun owners, well, that’s a different story. They want to imprison us. Okay? So they want to make sure that any gun owner that has a problem, well, they’re going to be subject to the Gulag, where they’re going to be held without bail until their trial, because there is no more bail in New Jersey. And what happens is the prosecutor seeks what is called pre-trial detention. And if pre-trial detention is granted, you’re going to sit in jail, having been proven guilty of nothing, until your trial, and that can be months or years. So, this is the Gulag, and that’s how it operates. Well, that’s bad enough. We fight these Gulag cases all the time, trying to get gun owners out because just about any gun offense is a felony level. New Jersey calls them crimes, and they’re normally warrant offenses. You get arrested and then you’re put through the Gulag where you’re held for 48 hours while the prosecutor decides whether to seek pre-trial detention or not. Evan Nappen 09:20 And their policies are, generally, in every gun case, they seek the Gulag, which is to hold you without bail. So, you’re going to be held at least, normally, another five days before your hearing, where your attorney will finally get to argue to get you out. And if your attorney is not successful in doing that, you are staying in with no bail. Well, this bill is an enhancement to that. It will allow the court to take even more time on any firearm offense where they get to hold you for yet another seven days, so that an operability report can somehow be provided regarding the operability of a firearm, which is often irrelevant to the criminal charge, especially in New Jersey. Operability is not even necessarily required for a firearm conviction, but here the abuse of it will be added into the Gulag’s initial holding of the gun owner. So, now you’re going to be arrested on the warrant charge on whatever the allegation of the firearm offense is, even though you’re innocent, it won’t matter. It’s a gun offense. So, the 48 hours, the prosecutor by way of their policy is going to hold you seeking pre-trial detention. Then that pre-trial detention hearing has to get scheduled within, arguably, five days, and normally it’s about that, five days, before you have the hearing. Evan Nappen 10:57 But if we get to that hearing and they say, oh no, we want another seven days, at least, here the seven days to get an operability report. So, now you’re going to be in jail for approximately two weeks, two weeks, without bail, because there is no bail. And that’s just to get you to the hearing so your attorney can try to argue to defeat the prosecutor’s motion for pre-trial detention. And they’re going to now throw this into the mix. So, you can figure with any gun arrest, you know, you’re falsely accused of being in a “sensitive place” or you’re falsely accused of possession of an assault firearm, or you’re falsely accused of unlawful possession of your handgun. You know all kind of false charges and gun rights oppression that I deal with all the time in practice. Well, you’re going to be at least two weeks in jail now before we can even get you out so we can fight the charge that will eventually get you acquitted of. Isn’t that cute? And that’s if your attorney knows how to get you out and succeeds in doing so. Because if not, you’ll just sit in jail until your trial to finally prove that. So, this is the just horrible addition to the Gun Owner Gulag. Page – 3 – of 10Evan Nappen 12:20 These bills need to be fought, and they need to be fought vigorously. Make sure you make your voices heard. Make sure you belong to ANJRPC, the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. They have a full-time paid lobbyist. They have a vigorous process here trying to fight this, but of course, we’re dealing with a state where it is a tremendous battle for the forces of constitutional rights protection. Here to succeed, it’s a difficult, challenging environment, but we have to keep up the fight. We have to make our voices known, and we can make changes. As a matter of fact, that Gulag bill, the Association was able to change the original form where it was an indefinite amount of time until they finally got the report. At least it’s been modified to a mere seven days extra. So, now it’s only two weeks in jail, guilty of nothing. Simply because you lawfully exercised your rights in New Jersey. So, these laws are terrible. They are more oppression from our oppressors. We need to fight it and make sure you do. Evan Nappen 13:44 Now, on a little bit of a Christmas gift here, despite the nightmare that the New Jersey Democrats are placing upon us. I do want to mention that thanks to President Trump and his appointment of judges throughout the land, not the least of which, of course, is the Supreme Court, getting three conservative constitutionalist judges there. But also his ability to add to the judges of the Third Circuit Court of Appeals. And because of President Trump particularly adding the last two judges that are constitutional judges that understand the significance of the Second Amendment, the full panel of 14 judges has agreed to hear the appeal in the Siegel versus Platkin, which is the Carry Killer lawsuit that challenges all these sensitive places and the other onerous restrictions that were put forward in the Carry Killer bill. And as you may know, the initial appeal with the three-judge panel, the three-judge panel that had ruled not tremendously in our favor, has been wiped out, wiped out. Now, the full panel of 14 judges are going to hear and decide the Carry Killer bill. This is very good news for us. Evan Nappen 15:26 This is something that makes me cautiously optimistic that we’re going to see some protection and our Second Amendment rights enforced, and it’s very, very important. Of course, New Jersey fought tooth and nail to try to stop the full panel from granting the en banc full panel, but the Association, particularly my good friend and colleague, Dan Schmutter, was successful here in having that full panel take the case. So, this will also bode well, because by getting a decision that knocks out most, if not all, of the Carry Killer bill, it’ll also lay the groundwork for the Supreme Court of the United States. If we start getting split decisions in the circuits over these sensitive place gambit that the Second Amendment oppressionists have pulled after Bruen to try to limit our rights, we may, in fact, see even a national case killing it permanently for the country. But here in New Jersey, we stand in good stead at the moment. Evan Nappen 16:47 Keep in mind that, at the moment, where can you carry and what are the categories where you can and can’t carry right now, at the current state. Remember, you cannot lawfully carry, even with a New Jersey carry permit, within 100 feet of a public gathering, demonstration or event requiring a Government permit. You’re still barred from zoos, parks, beaches, recreational facilities or areas owned or controlled by the state, county or local government unit designated as a gun-free zone. Publicly Page – 4 – of 10owned or leased libraries or museums. Bars or restaurants where alcohol is served and any other sites or facilities where alcohol is sold for consumption on the premises. Entertainment facilities. Casinos and related facilities. And healthcare facilities. Evan Nappen 17:41 Now you currently can lawfully carry with a New Jersey carry permit, of course, while this appeal is not resolved. These things are still blocked, though, and you’re able to carry, and this isn’t a complete list. But essentially in vehicles. As you may recall, the carjacker protection law that was built into the Carry Killer law, saying that you couldn’t have your loaded gun on your person in your vehicle. That is still blocked, and we are, we may carry in our vehicle, in that manner. Private property open to the public is no longer and still is not a sensitive place. In public film locations, we are able to carry. Additionally, the ruling is still in effect blocking the insurance requirement. As you may recall, at some point, Murphy issued an Executive Order banning the sale of so-called murder insurance, where you had gun owner protection programs, and then proceeded in the Carry Killer bill to mandate by law that you get actual murder insurance. Meaning insurance if someone commits an intentional act with a firearm, essentially murdering somebody. That’s been blocked. So, we don’t have to have insurance to have a carry license. And blocking certain permit procedures and requirements that were more administrative in nature. Evan Nappen 19:23 So, this is where we’re standing. But the good news is, with the full panel reviewing it, I’m very excited to see that outcome, and so should you. So, there is still hope. There is hope that the judiciary is going to speak for our rights, and that same full panel will be also considering New Jersey’s magazine ban and so-called assault firearm ban. So we are hopeful for some very good outcomes here, and we’ll keep you informed here on Gun Lawyer. Evan Nappen 20:07 Let me also mention our good friends at WeShoot. That’s where Teddy and I both shoot and where we get our training. And you will love WeShoot. WeShoot is a great indoor range right in Lakewood, conveniently off the Parkway. They constantly run great sales, and they have great service, a fantastic pro shop and a state of the art range, great training. I really can’t give it high enough praise. We love WeShoot, and so will you. Check out WeShoot at weshootusa.com. They have a great website with beautiful photographs. And you don’t want to miss the WeShoot girls that are there posing with some of the finest guns that you will ever see. So, make sure you go to WeShoot and take advantage of that fantastic resource for gun owners, right in New Jersey. Evan Nappen 21:11 And let me also shamelessly plug my book, which is New Jersey Gun Law, the Bible of New Jersey gun law. Make sure you get the book, folks. You need this book. It is the guidebook to keeping you safe, out of jail and not committing GOFUs in New Jersey. It’s 120 topics, all question and answer. It fills you in so you will know what the law is. It is the guidebook used by thousands and thousands of gun owners throughout New Jersey. You can get your copy today by going to EvanNappen.com. EvanNappen.com. Hey, Teddy, what do you have for us today? Page – 5 – of 10Teddy Nappen 21:56 Well, one of the things you know, it’s the holidays, Christmas, and everything’s coming along, and all the wins that have been coming through, and all the crazy insanity that you’ve described. I always think back to the show that you introduced me to, Paladin. There’s a particular episode, I think it was even the Christmas episode where Paladin is there. It’s a whole deal with the fan, like, there’s a small, I think it’s like a house living out there. And the ending line to the whole episode is, it’s Christmas. He’s saying to the guy, it’s Christmas. This is the, this is the one day of the year where we pretend there’s no evil. And that kind of sticks with me in the idea of this is supposed to be the time spent with family, and particularly, we can pretend and not think about all the anti-gun jerks and the gun rights oppressors. This is the time to enjoy Christmas movies, particular ones that involve firearms. So, as I was scanning through the internet, I saw one, I love this article, the top 10 Christmas movies with guns. (https://blog.cheaperthandirt.com/top-10-christmas-movies-with-guns/) Hey. Evan Nappen 23:17 So, that is what Christmas should be about. Guns. Teddy Nappen 23:22 Yeah, exactly. And to start things off, of course, they go with the most controversial one, which is Die Hard. Evan Nappen 23:31 Which we will agree is a Christmas movie. Teddy Nappen 23:35 Correct. I’ve heard all the debates. Evan Nappen 23:37 Ho, ho, ho. I have a machine gun. How does it get any less Christmas than that. Teddy Nappen 23:42 And quite simply, it’s not Christmas without Hans Gruber falling off the Nakatomi building. Evan Nappen 23:49 Yeah, and you know what gun he had, right? Teddy Nappen 23:55 So, well, you had Bruce Willis with his Beretta 92 with the focus. Evan Nappen 24:01 Of course. Teddy Nappen 24:02 But there’s also the MP 5. Page – 6 – of 10Evan Nappen 24:05 Yippie IA, Yippie Ki A. Teddy Nappen 24:08 And the P7 M13s. Evan Nappen 24:12 P7 that what Hans there, I believe, had. Teddy Nappen 24:17 Correct. And it was very good gun play in that part, where he’s no bullets, and it tricks him. The next one, this is actually, it’s one of those where it’s like, what the heck is this movie? I had to watch it, though. I think you were there when we watched Fat Man. Evan Nappen 24:36 Oh god, yeah. Teddy Nappen 24:37 It is probably the funniest, like, weirdest film you could watch. We have Mel Gibson and is this whole plot to murder Santa Claus. It’s him fighting, fighting Boyd Crowder from Justified. Walter Goggins. Crazy gun play between a 1911 and the fat man using a Colt Walker. Evan Nappen 25:06 Yep, definitely. It’s an entertaining film. Teddy Nappen 25:12 Yeah, it’s just one of those. I was like, okay, interesting. Now, this is technically Kiss, Kiss, Bang, Bang, which is a Christmas heist of a film. I don’t know if you ever saw it. With Robert Downey, Jr. Evan Nappen 25:26 I may have. Teddy Nappen 25:27 Kind of an action comedy. They’re carrying their Vector CP One. Evan Nappen 25:34 Oh, Vectors are in it. Huh, okay. Teddy Nappen 25:35 Yeah. And, of course, another HK P7. It’s kind of one of one of those, you kind of spot there. But I was like, I didn’t realize it involved Christmas. Page – 7 – of 10Teddy Nappen 25:44 The one I will highlight, though I always thought was funny, he put on Home Alone, one and two. Here’s the reason. Because, remember, the kid, he plays that clip, the black and white movie where he keeps. Evan Nappen 25:44 Well, you know, the P7 used to be the pistol of the New Jersey State Police, but they had over 40 accidental discharges with it, and they gave it up. And that’s because, although it was marketed as being one of the safest guns, the problem is, it’s a front squeeze that cocks the gun, when you squeeze the front. Unlike a 1911 that has a safety on the back, this squeeze cocks from the front. And the problem is, if you, if you’re not practiced and trained well enough, when you draw the gun out of a holster, you’re cocking it as you pull it out, and that creates a situation that is not exactly the safest situation to be in. There were numerous ADs with that gun. So, something to keep in mind. I think they’re cool and a very interesting design, but I remember seeing Superintendent Pagano talking about it. And he basically said, hey, look, it’s not the gun’s fault. He’s blaming his men. How nice of him. Yeah, right. So that was that episode of the gun, in theory, seeming like it may have been one of the safest guns, but in reality, it was prone to needing a lot of training to make sure that you didn’t cock it until you were ready to. So, there you go. Evan Nappen 27:36 Oh yeah. Teddy Nappen 27:36 The bad guys, oh yeah, yeah. Well, I believe you, but my tommy gun don’t. And it’s like, you’ve been smooching with everybody. Snuffy, Dale, Leo, Little Mo with the gimpy leg, Bony Bob, Cliff, and the guy thinks he’s actually like sleeping with all these individuals. Evan Nappen 27:58 Great. Teddy Nappen 27:59 Yeah. The Thompson 1921 AC sub machine gun. The actual movie is Angel With Filthy Souls. Evan Nappen 28:08 Hmm huh. Okay. Teddy Nappen 28:11 Yeah. Evan Nappen 28:11 So, that was actually a clip from an actual movie? Teddy Nappen 28:14 Yeah, that was funny. And, of course, The Christmas Story with the Red Ryder BB gun. Page – 8 – of 10Evan Nappen 28:20 Oh, the classic of all classics. And in New Jersey, that’s a firearm. It’s not a BB, you know? It’s not just a little old BB gun. There it is, bona fide, defined as a firearm. Teddy Nappen 28:32 Yeah. And they threw in some honorable mentions, like White Christmas. Where it takes, the start is at the Battle of the Bulge. So, you have the M1 Garand coming into play of that. And then. Evan Nappen 28:46 As Patton said, the greatest battle rifle ever devised. Teddy Nappen 28:51 I’d agree. And then you have Scrooged with Santa wielding the XM 556 mini gun. Evan Nappen 29:00 Okay. Teddy Nappen 29:02 And then also Bill Murray with his, remember, he had a stainless snub nose revolver because he’s freaking out that a ghost is there. Evan Nappen 29:10 Okay, yeah. Teddy Nappen 29:12 They couldn’t determine that. Evan Nappen 29:14 He didn’t do much with him and guns, but yeah. Unless it’s some gun for taking out ghosts, right? Ghost Busters. Teddy Nappen 29:22 Oh, and of course, our Majesty’s Secret Service, James Bond and Christmas, what more could you want? With his Walther PPK. Evan Nappen 29:33 Oh yeah, James Bond sometimes had some screwy gun stuff. I remember in one of them where he has an AR7, and the guy’s talking about. And it’s a 25 caliber AR. I’m like, it’s not 25. It’s 22. But hey, what do they know? Teddy Nappen 29:52 Yeah, it’s, this is just a fun list, and it’s something I just kind of like, wow, I didn’t really consider some of these as, like, Chrismas movies. But I guess so. Page – 9 – of 10Evan Nappen 30:03 Well, as long as it has guns in it, we’ll declare them to be Christmas movies. Teddy Nappen 30:08 Fair enough. If it has a gun and it’s a Christmas movie, that’s it. Evan Nappen 30:11 That’s it. That’s the standard from now on. From now on, that’s the standard. Teddy Nappen 30:16 There you go. Evan Nappen 30:17 Oh, that’s good stuff, Teddy. And soon we’ll be enjoying Christmas guns. That’s the deal. That’s the deal. Hey, it is very important that we discuss this week’s GOFU, which is the Gun Owner Fuck Up. These are mistakes that actual clients make that causes them problems, expensive problems. You get to learn for free. And this week’s GOFU is about printing. And I don’t mean printing with your computer printer. I mean about your gun showing when you’re carrying concealed. Now, in New Jersey, it’s not illegal to print. Believe it or not. A gun has to be concealed, but it doesn’t address printing while concealed. However, in New Jersey, you don’t want to print. Because not only do we need to carry concealed, but you want to keep that concealment private and secret. Evan Nappen 31:20 New Jersey is loaded with all kinds of people that are scared of guns, aren’t used to guns, and they can end up calling police because they think someone’s carrying a gun. And next thing you know, even though you’re legal to carry. You also give away tactical advantage, if people can make you as carrying. And this is an issue where individuals can make false accusations against you if they believe that you’re carrying. So, you want to make sure you don’t print when you conceal carry in Jersey. Make sure you are as discrete as possible. Also, you don’t want to inadvertently end up in a sensitive place and have a gun identified on you because you’re printing. You shouldn’t be in a sensitive place, but if you’re printing and in a sensitive place, then you’re going to have a bigger problem. So, be very conscientious when you carry, whether or not you’re printing, or whether your method of carry allows for inadvertent display of your firearm, even for a moment, because you want to stay discrete. You want your concealed carry to be concealed carry, and ultimately that gives you, if nothing else, a tactical advantage of surprise should you need your gun. Evan Nappen 32:51 This is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens. Speaker 2 33:01 Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state. Page – 10 – of 10 Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S3 E269_Transcript About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets. Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News. As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists. He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America. Email Evan Your Comments and Questions  [email protected] Join Evan’s InnerCircleHere’s your chance to join an elite group of the Savviest gun and knife owners in America.  Membership is totally FREE and Strictly CONFIDENTIAL.  Just enter your email to start receiving insider news, tips, and other valuable membership benefits.   Email (required) *First Name *Select list(s) to subscribe toInnerCircle Membership Yes, I would like to receive emails from Gun Lawyer Podcast. (You can unsubscribe anytime)Constant Contact Use. Please leave this field blank.var ajaxurl = "https://gun.lawyer/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php";

  Episode 268-Tresspassing on Our 2A Rights Also Available OnSearchable Podcast Transcript Gun Lawyer — Episode 268 Transcript SUMMARY KEYWORDS New Jersey gun rights, Assembly 6211, criminal trespass, sensitive places, carry killer bill, Supreme Court, trespass law, private property, research facilities, utility company property, school property, fourth degree crime, defiant trespasser, gun attorney, national reciprocity. SPEAKERS Evan Nappen, Speaker 2, Teddy Nappen Evan Nappen 00:16 I’m Evan Nappen. Teddy Nappen 00:18 And I’m Teddy Nappen. Evan Nappen 00:20 And welcome to Gun Lawyer. So, the New Jersey gun rights oppressors are at it again. They have a bill that is apparently moving forward. It is Assembly No. 6211, and apparently they’re trying to jam it through before the end of the year here. (https://www.njleg.state.nj.us/bill-search/2024/A6211/bill- text?f=A6500&n=6211_I1) You know, it’s on the fast track, apparently. We’ll see. This bill is to make and criminalize the going into a place that you would otherwise be legally allowed to carry, but for giving a, putting up a sign that says “no carry”. Now, the Attorney General, as you may be aware, in New Jersey, is giving away these free signs. You know, prohibiting guns on premises, but the law regarding that falls into trespass. It’s not actually part of New Jersey’s “sensitive places” in the Carry Killer bill. Evan Nappen 01:34 Because in the Carry Killer bill, there was an extreme property ban that basically said about private property, that any private property you had to have a sign that gave you permission to have your gun. In other words, there needed to be a sign out on any private property you were going to go into with your gun. And that would include businesses and anywhere else that said, essentially, hey, we love guns. Bring in your gun, you know, in so many words. Now that was shot down by the court in the federal litigation, you know, which was brought to you by the State Association, the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. They challenged it in federal court in front of Judge (Renee Marie) Bump. And what happened was the judge basically ruled, and this is a current law in New Jersey, that when it comes to private property, if it’s open to the public, it’s not a prohibited area. You don’t have to get prior permission if it’s open to the public, unless it’s somehow otherwise a prohibited place. So, you know, if you want to walk into 7-11 with your gun, it’s open to the public, and they don’t need to have a sign that says guns are permitted. You’re good to go. And that’s how it currently is. Page – 1 – of 11 Evan Nappen 03:02 But as you may be aware, Hawaii passed a similar law, and it got upheld there. It didn’t get knocked out the way we did in New Jersey. They said, oh no, you need their prior permission. This law is now upheld there, and the Supreme Court of the United States has taken up that case. So, we’re going to get a SCOTUS ruling on the legality of that type of anti-gun and oppression-type law that they love to pass. We’re going to probably get some great, I’m hopeful, to get some great law out of the Supreme Court that we can use to fight other sensitive places. But what New Jersey is now doing, and this is something they try to do, they’ve done it in other areas, is they try to figure out sneaky end runs. Sneaky ways to oppress our rights. Sneaky ways to get around laws that protect our rights. Evan Nappen 04:11 So, you know, they’ve done it and attempted to do it with PLCAA, Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act, where they’re not, under federal law, dealers and manufacturers and stuff are supposed to be protected. But New Jersey created this whole consumer protection angle that they’re exploiting to try to get around that so they can try to litigate, you know, gun shops and manufacturers out of existence, using and abusing consumer protection laws. Well, now what they’re going to do here with this bill is abuse the trespass laws in such a manner. Because it’s not the classic “sensitive place” that was in Carry Killer bill, but instead, they’re amending the trespass law in New Jersey to pull this off. Evan Nappen 04:59 Here’s what they’re doing. It falls under N.J.S. 2C:18-3, which is New Jersey’s trespass law. And this is to create criminal trespassing while carrying a firearm. You see how they put criminal trespassing while carrying a firearm. But really what it’s doing is criminalizing carrying a firearm into private property that says no guns, which is contrary to essentially the sensitive place victory that we had. It probably is going to be further decimated by the Supreme Court in its discussion, but nonetheless, New Jersey now has the following offense. So, if it passes, and they’re pushing to pass it, a person commits an offense if, knowing that the person is not licensed or privileged to do so, the person enters or surreptitiously remains, so just go with enters. Don’t worry about your staying, you know, secretly there. But enters any research facility, structure, so there’s a comma after research. So, that’s a standard research facility. It’s not just about research facilities, research facility. Evan Nappen 06:24 But they hide this stuff in there so that, you know, it’s way broader than it’s initially appearing. Research facility, structure, or separately secured or occupied portion thereof, or in or upon utility company property, or in the sterile area or operational area of an airport. So, buried in this presentation of saying, oh, we’re protecting research facilities, utility company property and airports, is the very broad structure prohibition, just stand alone structure. It’s not just structures of a research facility or a utility company or an airport. Then it says an offense under this subsection is a crime of the fourth degree. That’s up to a year and a half in State Prison, by the way. If it is committed on a school property, see, school property is part of this. Why? Because that goes to that structure, you see. Oh, well, of course, we want to keep guns out of school. So, that’s okay. That’s where they’re right. This is their whole way of sneakily selling this. Page – 2 – of 11 Evan Nappen 07:37 An offense under this section is a crime of the fourth degree, if it’s committed in a dwelling. So, this makes anybody’s home now part of this. An offense under this section is a crime the fourth degree, if it’s committed at a research facility, a power generation facility, a water treatment facility, public sewage facility, water treatment facility, public water facility, nuclear electric generating plant or any facility that stores, generates or handles any hazardous or chemical compounds. So, again, they add all that in, but don’t lose sight that all structures are still covered, even though they’re doing a laundry list of these other things to conceal what they’re doing. Don’t fall for their trick here. An offense under this subsection is a crime of the fourth degree, if it’s committed upon a utility company, and an fence is a crime of the fourth degree, if it’s committed in a sterile area or operational area of an airport. Otherwise it’s a disorderly person. Evan Nappen 08:35 So, oh, okay. If it’s another structure of some sort, you know, a dwelling, it’s just a DP, right? Wrong. Because here’s what they do. A crime of the fourth degree under this section shall be a crime of the third degree. So, they’re going to bump it up now to five years in State Prison, right? If the person possesses a firearm while committing the offense, regardless whether they have a permit to carry or not. And then get a load of the next line. A disorderly person’s offense under the subsection shall be a crime of the fourth degree if the person possesses a firearm. So, now they’re making it essentially a felony, felony, level, you know, New Jersey fourth degree. A year and a half in State Prison if you trespass in this manner. Evan Nappen 09:24 But wait, they’re not done. Because you may say, well, I would never just go into a place that I wasn’t allowed to go into. But here’s where they add in even more of the fun stuff that they use to oppress our rights. Defiant trespasser is a person that commits a petty disorderly persons offense, if the person possesses a firearm while committing the offense of a disorderly person’s offense, regardless of whether the person is a holder of a permit to carry. It doesn’t matter if the person is not licensed or if you’re knowing you’re not licensed, or enters or remains in the place, okay? And then it says. This can be given by, and here’s the punchline, folks, posting in a manner prescribed by law or reasonably likely to come to the attention of the intruders. That puts into place those free no gun signs, so that businesses and other places can post these signs. Now creating a fourth degree crime for taking your firearm into these places that have the “no gun” posting. Evan Nappen 10:40 Now, it claims that there’s an affirmative defense if the structure was, at the time, open to members of the public. But here’s the catch. The actor complied with all lawful conditions imposed on access or remaining in the structure. Oh, well, one of those conditions is no guns. So, again, they come back and get our gun rights. It makes believe it’s a defense, but it really isn’t, because of the condition that the sign creates. And that puts you back into the felony level gun rights oppression mode. Then it goes in even further to say the conspicuous posting of a sign prohibiting or otherwise indicating that it’s not permissible to carry a firearm in the structure or place shall give rise to an inference that an actor who accesses or remains in that structure or place while carrying a firearm knowingly was not licensed or privileged to enter or remain. It’s virtually like a presumption, but they’re calling it an inference. Page – 3 – of 11 Evan Nappen 11:56 So, right away, if that signs there, you’re going to be subject by that inference to arrest for having your firearm. Did not comply with all lawful conditions imposed on access to or remaining. So, again, there’s a sign, and you didn’t comply. FOURTH DEGREE FELONY for you, and you lose all your gun rights and get thrown in the Gun Owner Gulag while you’re at it. Three, did not reasonably believe that the owner of the structure or place where the other person in power to license access would have licensed them to do it and remain. So, this is their latest move, folks, to criminalize going on to property and pushing their “No Trespassing” angle. Because if the Hawaii case, depending on how it’s decided, invalidates these, in essence, the private property sensitive place prohibition, their new gambit is now doing it by way of the trespass laws. So, the gun rights oppressors are out doing their evil in their oppression of our rights. We need to stop Assembly No. 6211. It is going to be causing a lot of problems if that passes, and if it does, really what we need to do is get a website that shows every business that says “no guns”. And make sure that nobody goes to those businesses. Nobody gives those businesses any money, first of all. Teddy Nappen 13:49 I would, I would actually take it a step further. I want to do a sticker campaign where, if you see that sign, you sticker that puts on it says, rob me. Evan Nappen 13:59 Yeah, right, that’s pretty funny. Teddy Nappen 14:01 Well, I mean. Evan Nappen 14:02 Well, here’s what it is. Teddy Nappen 14:03 Pretty much, there are sending that message. Evan Nappen 14:04 Well, pretty much. They are making it much more dangerous because basically anybody seeing that sign of “no guns” knows that it is their prime target to be robbed, because they don’t believe in guns. They’re just advertising the fact that they’re helpless, defenseless, and it’s really rather stupid. But on the other hand, I’d like to see stickers out there, and there are signs and stickers that I know are available, where guns are welcome. You put the sign that you welcome lawful carriers and that ends up protecting you and others. And on the same website, we should list these places that welcome guns, and those are places that our business needs to go to. We need to use the power of our dollar to make them pay or to benefit those that try to stand up for our rights. So, this is their latest attack. We want to make you aware of it and stay vigilant. If you belong, which hopefully you do, to the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs, you will probably receive the email alert about this very thing. Also, NRA and others, I’m sure, will be putting it out there, but this is what we’re up against here in New Jersey. Page – 4 – of 11 Evan Nappen 15:33 I have a couple other things to talk about real quick here. I want to mention that Toms River is now the 13th municipality to nullify carry permit fees. So, if you live in Toms River and you apply for a carry, they are going to refund the $150 to you that New Jersey requires that you pay. That’s really great. Congratulations to Toms River for joining the other 12 states, that these states, I mean other towns, not states, sorry, other towns. They are now the 13th town to do it, municipality. The other thing interesting about Toms River is that they have approved over 1600 post-Bruen carry applications. Toms River is apparently the second largest number of approved post-Bruen permits. I’m getting all this from an article from our good friend, John Petrolino, at Bearing Arms. (https://bearingarms.com/john- petrolino/2025/12/11/toms-river-marks-13th-nj-municipality-to-nullify-carry-permit-fees-n1230887) John Petrolino does great research and writing, and he has a particular focus, as well, on New Jersey. This is really interesting stuff, and it’s great to see the municipalities. The other municipalities, by the way, so, the list is Englishtown, Howell, Toms River, Beachwood, Butler, Dumont, Franklin Borough, Hardyston, Hopatcong, Medford Lakes, Vernon, Cresskill, and Redington. Boy, it feels like I’m reading a school closing list almost, doesn’t it? But those are the municipalities that have decided to refund all or part of permit fees. So, good work to those towns and those that helped to get that through. Evan Nappen 17:28 And by the way, I want to mention that John Petrolino has another article in Bearing Arms. He’s very much on top of these issues, and it’s titled, “Are We Closer to Getting a True Accounting of New Jersey Carry Permits?” (https://bearingarms.com/john-petrolino/2025/12/10/are-we-closer-to-getting-a-true- accounting-of-new-jersey-carry-permits-n1230878) And what John has done is filed under essentially the Freedom of Information legislation that New Jersey has, their version of it, which is the Open Public Records Act. And he’s looking to get the number of carry permits determined. And although we have some numbers, the problem is that it lists approved applications, but that’s not necessarily the number of currently valid permits to carry. Additionally, the carry permits do not include retired law enforcement permitting that occurs under 39-6. So, he’s looking to get the numbers of RPOs out there that have carries as well, because they’re still civilians, even though they’re retired police, and those, too, are carry permits. And knowing this information is important, as it shows more and more folks out there exercising their rights and carrying to defend themselves and others. Evan Nappen 18:55 I also want to point out another interesting headline here that I caught. This, too, is from Bearing Arms and is by Cam Edwards. (https://bearingarms.com/camedwards/2025/12/11/north-carolina-womans- lawsuit-gives-scotus-a-chance-to-establish-national-reciprocity-n1230888) I think this is really exciting. You know, we all want to see national reciprocity. And there is a bill pending, you know, HR 38, and we may see some action on it. They’re pushing it in the federal, in the Fed there for Congress to get it passed. But the problem is, of course, the Democrats, who always want to oppress our rights, and it seems that when it gets most likely to the Senate overcoming cloture, the filibuster, the Democrats are going to again kill anything that expands our ability to enjoy our Second Amendment rights. Now, maybe it’ll go through. Maybe some will see the light. There’s always a chance, and it would be great. I’m not getting my hopes up for it to pass until we get the 60 votes of solid Second Amendment Page – 5 – of 11 supporters in the Senate, but it’s good to at least get on record those oppressors of our Second Amendment rights for election time. So, if it doesn’t pass there, that’s still worth the effort. Evan Nappen 20:14 However, what is interesting is we may be able to get national reciprocity from court action, from judiciary, from challenges brought up to the Supreme Court. And this is very interesting. Because the article, “North Carolina Woman’s Lawsuit Gives SCOTUS”, which is, of course, Supreme Court of the United States, “a Chance to Establish National Reciprocity”. So, that’s exciting. What happened was Eva Marie Gardner was driving in Montgomery County, Maryland, and her car was allegedly hit by an assailant, who ran her off the road before exiting his vehicle and rushing towards her. She said she screamed for him to get away, but when he continued advancing, she drew her pistol in self-defense. She never fired a shot. When the police arrived on the scene, they ended up releasing the man who ran her off the road and arrested Gardner for illegal possession of her firearm. She now lives in North Carolina but had a valid concealed carry permit from Virginia. However, Maryland doesn’t recognize carry permits from other states, and she was ultimately convicted despite raising Second Amendment claims. Evan Nappen 21:39 So, she filed on her own after fighting this, after the Maryland Supreme Court denied her case. She took the case to the Supreme Court, filing a cert petition on her own behalf, asking for this consideration. And apparently one of the judges in the Supreme Court took a great interest in it and asked for the State to file response. And because of that, this is exciting, Gardner also filed a full faith and credit argument. You know, that one state needs to recognize another state’s documents, and not only that being a Second Amendment protection. Evan Nappen 22:26 And, you know, ordinarily, a pro se petition has very little chance of the Supreme Court taking it, but because one justice took an interest in it after Maryland waived its right to respond, you now see that some top litigators in the Supreme Court are taking up her case. The Second Amendment Foundation is also filing an amicus, and this is really good stuff. So, there is a chance here, based on this pro se petition from this woman who defended herself and then, of course, became victimized by Maryland’s anti-gun law that doesn’t recognize any other states outside permit. This may be the case, if SCOTUS takes it, that can force national reciprocity by way of our constitutional rights, and that would be fantastic. It will negate the need for Second Amendment legislation to pass, or maybe pave the way for it to pass, who knows? But that is something exciting that we’re going to be keeping an eye on, and we hope to see success. And, man, I will be ecstatic, and I’ll be the first to be telling you if SCOTUS takes a national reciprocity case. Evan Nappen 23:57 Hey, let me tell you about our good friends at WeShoot. Teddy and I just re-qualified down at WeShoot for our New Jersey carries. We did our CCARE. It was great. We love WeShoot. It’s a great place to shoot with great training. And they are running some awesome specials. They, of course, have the BUL Armory UR, which is a double-stack race gun. And they have the Springfield Saint Victor V2, which is really cool gun. It has next-gen ergonomics, flat-faced trigger, and top-tier reliability for defense or Page – 6 – of 11 range work. And they have a Ruger LC Carbine. And they’re running some super sales. It’s their last sale of 2025, and you should check out these sales that are going to go from now until the 24th. They’re offering a two-hour private lesson with 20% off. They have 1,000 rounds of nine millimeter for only 245 bucks. That’s a great deal. They have carry classes at 10% off. They have 200 rounds of .223 for $119.99. They’re offering 5% off gift cards at $100 or more. They’re offering 500 rounds of .380, for 149.99. They have Radical Firearms FR15 for only 499.99. They’re offering $300 off double action defense pistols. They have the ATI AR-15 for 399.99, and they’re offering $500 off Phoenix Trinity Firearms. So they are running some great sales. Evan Nappen 25:53 And guess what? It doesn’t end there. They’re doing 10% off all Glock pistols they have. WeShoot pistol bags for 9.99. Smith & Wesson Bodyguard 2.0 for 385. And 10% off Vaulttek Safes and accessories. They have 15% off Stopbox Safes. 25% off all used guns. 25% of all used guns. 15% off Byrnas. 10% off Savior Gun Bags, etc. They are running just tremendous sales. And that’s not all of them even. So, listen, get down to WeShoot, and check out these great sales. They’re running great prices. The sales extended. They’re offering even super deal on individual membership and upgrades. Go to weshootusa.com. They’re right there in Lakewood, easily accessible off the Parkway. It’s where Teddy and I shoot, and you’ll love to shoot there, too. Check out WeShoot. Evan Nappen 27:02 Also, let me mention again, the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. They’re there fighting the fight for us. Man, they’re in the trenches, battling it out in federal court. We should have some exciting developments. Probably next show I’ll be telling you about something very exciting happening in federal court with the state Association. It’s really great stuff. We’ll be very excited about it. I have to just make it as a teaser for now, though. And they’re challenging the magazine ban and the assault firearm ban. They have a full time lobbyist. I mean, this is our group so we can fight the gun rights oppressors. You need to be a part of our state association. Go to anjrpc.org, anjrpc.org, and make sure you join. Evan Nappen 27:59 Also, make sure you get a copy of my book, New Jersey Gun Law. It’s the Bible of New Jersey gun law. You can go right to EvanNappen.com and order your copy. It’s over 500 pages, over 120 topics, all question and answer. It is a book relied upon by thousands upon thousands of New Jersey gun owners. It’s a book used by the State Police Firearms Division, lawyers, judges, and most importantly, so many great shooters and listeners to the show. And I know how much you love it. It’s a labor of love for me to write it. When you get the book, scan the front QR code, and join my private database of subscribers that get the updates. You can immediately access the archives and get the updates. Go to EvanNappen.com and get your copy today. Hey, Teddy, what do you have for us today in Press Checks? Teddy Nappen 28:52 Well, as you know, Press Checks are always free, and honestly, this was born out of a meme. Where, you know, you’re scrolling through, you’re trying to find, and I saw this one little post. It said, the UK, 30 years ago, disarmed themselves, and now they’re arresting you for Facebook posts. Let that sink in. Page – 7 – of 11 Now, I knew the UK disarmed themselves, but I had no idea what he was referencing. And as someone who likes to understand history, I found that it was referencing the Firearms Amendment Act of 1997. (https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1997/5/contents) Teddy Nappen 29:35 So, just pause for a moment. You have James Carville, who’s making the argument that if the Dems ever take back power, they’re going to make Puerto Rico a state. They’re going to make D.C. a state. And they’re going to pack the court. So, with that in mind, in their goal to “save democracy”, I think to myself. If the Left had unfettered power, no roadblocks, what would they do to destroy our rights? And after reading this bill, here it is. Looking at the UK, it is the future, if they ever take back power, and what they will do to destroy our rights. So, I pulled it up right off of the UK Government website. They’re bragging about it for anyone to, you know, if anyone wants any new ideas. Here’s, here’s, what they can look at. So, the subsection describes weapons that are prohibited, and there shall be inserted the following. Any firearm which either has a barrel less than 30 centimeters in length, or less than 60 centimeters in length overall, other than air weapons, small caliber pistol, muzzle loading gun, or firearm designed with signaling apparatus. Then it goes into its laundry list of except for slaughtering instruments, firearms used for humane killing, not human killing, humane killing of animals, and shot pistols for shooting vermin. By the way, all these require a firearm certificate. Evan Nappen 31:14 Wait a minute. They didn’t see No Country for Old Men, I guess, because they still. Teddy Nappen 31:17 No, I guess not. Evan Nappen 31:18 Yeah, right, huh, yeah. Teddy Nappen 31:20 Call it like, yeah. Evan Nappen 31:24 Call it. Teddy Nappen 31:26 And they go, and, by the way, each of these has to earn, you have to qualify for a firearm certificate, because they will just say the after the constabulary has to say, well, sorry, we don’t think you this is gonna go for that. And also, they have races at athletic meetings. Oh, I love this one, trophies of war stuff obtained in 1946 as a trophy of war so, you can keep it. Still off. Evan Nappen 32:00 Can you keep it? Or do you have to turn it in? Or do you have to d-wat it? Page – 8 – of 11 Teddy Nappen 32:03 Well, here’s the crux of it. It has to be used for exhibit or display, which goes into for that, or any firearm prior to 1919. And again, it has to be earned by certificate. Evan Nappen 32:17 So, they’ve created these incredibly onerous, it sounds like they basically banned all handguns there, and just continue to be the formerly Great Britain. And since the banning of all these guns, and the turn in of all these guns, and not only guns, but they also do it to knives, too. Teddy Nappen 32:43 Correct. Evan Nappen 32:43 Now they’re going, now they’ve focused on speech because they’ve got nothing to worry about. They disarmed the citizenship. Teddy Nappen 32:52 Yeah, and also, if you were to violate said prohibition, it’s five years states prison. So, you know, might as well keep to like, Jersey standard. You know, five years. Evan Nappen 33:04 Yeah. I mean, it’s pretty weird that Great Britain can actually make New Jersey at times look pro-gun. Teddy Nappen 33:12 Yeah. Evan Nappen 33:12 I mean, that’s pretty sad. Yeah. Teddy Nappen 33:15 This is the worst offense, and this is the part that’s disgusting. It just shows you the abuse of rights. The power of the search warrant. If a justice of the peace, or in Scotland, Sheriff, is satisfied by information on a reasonable grounds that a suspect offense is about to or is committed, or the connection to a firearm ammunition, that there is a danger to public safety or peace. What does that mean if you have a connection to a firearm? Let’s say, I don’t know, making a Facebook post about you shooting in Texas and then coming back to the UK. They can get a search warrant to search your premises and arrest you promptly for any connection to a firearm. Evan Nappen 34:01 Well, the only difference there, Teddy, is New Jersey already has that. It’s just that you’re not arrested. That’s a TERPO (Temporary Extreme Risk Protection Order) right there. That is New Jersey’s TERPO. Now you just get your guns seized and your house searched and your gun rights taken. The UK is going to arrest you and criminally charge you. But New Jersey doesn’t have any due process up front on the Temporary Extreme Risk Protection Order, basically what’s called Red Flag. And that standard Page – 9 – of 11 is very similar to what you just said in the UK. So, we’re not, we’re really not that far behind in New Jersey from totalitarianism, oppression of our Second Amendment rights. And it’s just disgusting. We’re following this same model in the former, that the formerly Great Britain is doing. Teddy Nappen 34:54 Yeah, and to be, to set the tone. And this is something for the UK to think about. You guys do realize that you’re, that the whole point of the Second Amendment is to defend yourself. And case in point, as they always like to say, well, we don’t have very much gun crime. However, your rapes ticked up about, oh, I don’t know, 15 times from the early 2000s to 2024. Now it’s up to 71,000 rapes a year, which, you know, if you’re letting in massive amounts of Afghans who commit rape up to 17 times more than a native born. Yeah. Evan Nappen 35:40 Well, you know, now you’re touching on that whole other wokey, crazy issue where they’re not getting the assimilation. Not getting assimilation to whatever their culture formally was. I mean, they don’t seem to care, though, you know. I guess they’re, they’re motivated in taking away rights of their citizens, and yet the crime wave that they’re experiencing is disgusting. They get denied their rights to defend themselves, and for that matter, they have the most effective means to defend themselves. Even though the statistics show pretty clearly what the problem is. And yet they’ll try to blame everything else but what factually stares them in the face. So, it’s a shame, but we’ve got to take warning and heed in New Jersey. Because we’re heading down that path, and it’s getting worse and worse. The only thing on the good news is with Supreme Court taking two gun cases, hopefully taking more, with federal law changing, with the Justice Department looking at civil rights violations as through Second Amendment laws that oppress, and that they will be going after these states and other localities. There’s a lot that we can at least be hopeful about here, because as we stay vigilant, it is not all doom and gloom, though. There are things that we should be positive about, and we just have to keep on fighting, and that’s what we’re going to do. Evan Nappen 37:36 Now, let me tell you about this week’s GOFU, folks. This GOFU, as you know, is the Gun Owner Fuck Up. These are expensive lessons that clients have learned that you get to learn for free and not repeat them. And this week’s GOFU is about stolen guns. If you have a gun that you think is lost or stolen, I want to remind you that New Jersey requires you to report it within 36 hours. If it’s lost or stolen, the law states that you have 36 hours to report it, and if you don’t report it, then you can face serious problems. Including the use of your failure to report, and we’ve seen this, to take away your gun rights, to move to revoke your gun licenses, permits, and this is how they will use it. Even though you’re a victim of theft, they will still try to use that against you. Evan Nappen 38:44 And keep in mind, you have an obligation to report it, but keep in mind that after you report it, there is a decent chance, we’ve seen it, that they will then use the fact that you reported a gun stolen or lost to still try to take away your rights. But at least you were conforming with the law when we have that fight. This is the game that’s out there, and it’s really a problem. Because they want guns reported stolen and you do need to report them stolen, you’re failure to do so can have bad ramifications. But even when Page – 10 – of 11 you do report it stolen, prepare yourself that you may be facing licensing actions over that. If you end up where you have a gun that you think is missing or stolen and you want to know what you need to do, you need to call a gun attorney right away and discuss your specific fact circumstance so that it can be properly dealt with and you can prepare for any potential ramifications. Evan Nappen 39:48 This is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens. Speaker 2 39:58 Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media Production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state. Page – 11 – of 11 Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S3 E268_Transcript About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets. Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News. As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists. He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America. Email Evan Your Comments and Questions  [email protected] Join Evan’s InnerCircleHere’s your chance to join an elite group of the Savviest gun and knife owners in America.  Membership is totally FREE and Strictly CONFIDENTIAL.  Just enter your email to start receiving insider news, tips, and other valuable membership benefits.   Email (required) *First Name *Select list(s) to subscribe toInnerCircle Membership Yes, I would like to receive emails from Gun Lawyer Podcast. (You can unsubscribe anytime)Constant Contact Use. Please leave this field blank.var ajaxurl = "https://gun.lawyer/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php";

  Episode 267-Vote for Gun Lawyer Also Available OnSearchable Podcast Transcript Gun Lawyer — Episode 267 Transcript SUMMARY KEYWORDS Gun Lawyer, podcast of the year, Gundies awards, Second Amendment, New Jersey gun laws, assault firearms, registration, inheritance, gun rights, Supreme Court, firearms instructor, tactical rabbi, gun rights oppression, voting prizes, gun lawyer nomination. SPEAKERS Evan Nappen, Speaker 2, Teddy Nappen Evan Nappen 00:16 I’m Evan Nappen. Teddy Nappen 00:17 And I’m Teddy Nappen. Evan Nappen 00:19 And welcome to Gun Lawyer. Well, folks, I’m proud to say that Gun Lawyer has been nominated for Podcast of the Year by The Gundies. And The Gundies, it’s a really cool awards program in which they look to honor various voices and those who are influencers and writers regarding our precious Second Amendment rights. This is an honor, and I’m very proud to be nominated. And what I’m doing now is I am shamelessly asking for your vote, because with The Gundies, it’s you who vote. If you go to thegundies.com, www.TheGundies.com, thegundies.com, you’ll see there are 19 different categories for different things — influencer, writer, all kinds of stuff. And on there is Podcast of the Year. Please go there and vote for Gun Lawyer for Podcast of the Year. Evan Nappen 01:42 And by doing that, not only will you help promote the show, but because we focus on these horrible problems, particularly with a centered focus on New Jersey, because New Jersey is just where the brunt of the Second Amendment oppression takes place. This will help bring greater awareness nationally to our cause, to our fight against gun rights oppression. So, we can win Podcast of the Year nationally and more people will pay attention to New Jersey and what Gun Lawyer has to say. And if you vote, you can actually win prizes. They give prizes to folks, you know, randomly, who vote. Voting closes December 15. Okay? You can vote one vote per category every day. So, vote for Gun Lawyer every day. Okay? You can do it once a day. Evan Nappen 02:47 If you vote in all 19 categories, if you pick in all 19 categories, and it’s all free, by the way, and if you watch a video at the bottom of the page, you earn an extra vote for every category that day. There are prizes. Every time you vote, you’re automatically entered to win. And the grand prize is an all expense paid trip to The Gundy Awards, which takes place in Las Vegas. And in each category, there are Page – 1 – of 11 sponsors that have prizes. So, this is exciting and fun, and, you know, it would mean something to me and Teddy, if you would be so kind as to jump on thegundies.com and vote for Gun Lawyer. Evan Nappen 03:31 I would also highly recommend our good friend, John Petrolino, for top 2A writer. You know, John is just great, and man, does he cover New Jersey and so many other things as well. He’s such an in-depth great reporter, and he’s brought so many of these great issues to the forefront. You know, we’ve talked about a lot of the great work that John has done. So, give John a vote in the top 2A writer category. And, of course, our good friends at WeShoot, they were also put out there for Firearms Instructor of the Year. And I would ask you to consider the Tactical Rabbi, that’s right, Tactical Rabbi for Firearms Instructor of the Year, and Bul Armory for the Most Innovative Brand of the Year. So, there’s four of the categories with some suggestions. And so, if you’re inclined to do so, please jump on this. We have till December 15, and hopefully this will be successful. It will be a lot of fun for you, and maybe you’ll even win some prizes by doing it. Teddy Nappen 04:49 I will also say to everyone voting for us, for Gun Lawyer, it is critical, because we need to give national awareness. I don’t think people outside of New Jersey realize the damage that the Gun Owner Gulag has created, and New Jersey is the petri dish. This is where they test all their crazy nonsense. Evan Nappen 05:13 New Jersey is a gun owners hell. Teddy Nappen 05:14 Correct. Evan Nappen 05:15 New Jersey is a gun owners hell. I wish The Gundy’s had an award for, you know, worst state. You know, greatest gun owner hell. New Jersey would win that every year. Teddy Nappen 05:26 Anti-gunner of the year. Anti-gunner. Evan Nappen 05:28 No. Gun rights oppressionists award. The Top Gun Rights oppressionist state. It is crazy, but this is actually a positive award. So, they look to get the voices and the folks out there that are all going to bat for our rights. And everybody who’s nominated, I want to congratulate all the nominees across the board. They’re all out there, spreading the word, fighting the lame-stream media, and trying to get past the agenda that the anti-gunners try to control and their lies that they put out to get us disenfranchised of our rights. It really is a battle that we’re in, and this is yet another tool in that battle. So, go to TheGundies.com and give us your vote. Make your voice heard. Page – 2 – of 11 Evan Nappen 06:23 Say, you know, one of the things I wanted to talk about, and it’s something that comes up a lot. And every once in a while, I think it really pays to do this. I want to talk about the so-called intrinsically evil “assault firearms”. That’s right, you know, New Jersey has had a ban on so-called “assault firearms”, and that in its current form, it was enacted back in May of 1990 and became effective in 1991. During that one year period of time, they allowed you to render inoperable your so-called “assault firearms”, but if you did that, you had to file a Certificate of Inoperability. If you just rendered them inoperable and didn’t file the paperwork, it’s no good. It’s the same as having an actual “assault firearm”. They did allow registration of a handful of guns, which they called registration, where you could keep them. This included the AR-15 and the M1A and the M1 Carbine, but you had to pay $50 and register it. If you actually have a registered assault firearm, it allowed you to keep so-called large capacity magazines with that gun, as long as you use that gun in competition in the DCM (Director of Civilian Marksmanship), which no longer exists, by the way. It’s now the CMP (Civilian Marksmanship Program). Evan Nappen 07:55 Now, very few did that. But, of course, if you did register one of those guns, I want you to be aware of something. If back in 1990 to 91 you registered an “assault firearm”, registered “assault firearms” in New Jersey are not inheritable. Firearms normally are inheritable in New Jersey, and they pass to your heirs without any paper registration or license. But registered “assault firearms” are not inheritable. So, if you have a registered “assault firearm” and you don’t want to just lose it to the State, you may want to think about disposing of it sooner rather than later. So that it is something that is just not a loss to the estate. Now, if you have an unregistered “assault firearm”, well that is inheritable. Believe it or not, only registered assault firearms are not inheritable. Evan Nappen 08:18 Of course, you may say, well, how can a unregistered “assault firearm” be legal for inheritance? Well, first of all, if you rendered it inoperable, that’s not registration. So, those guns are inheritable. And if you stored your “assault firearm” outside of New Jersey and didn’t register it, then it can be inherited by your heirs. Now, they can’t bring it into New Jersey either, but they can, in fact, inherit it. So, it’s only registered “assault firearms” that are not inheritable. The “assault firearm” law is just full of quirky, bizarre garbage like this. And it is insanity. As far as a law being written, its one of the worst-written criminal laws ever written. Absolutely. It is essentially beyond complete comprehension. Evan Nappen 09:51 It is a very complicated and often contradictory, five-part definition of what is supposedly an “assault firearm”. And the reason it’s so complicated is that they really can’t be defined, because “assault firearm” is just a pejorative term. The original assault rifle, if you will, the assault rifle, you know, is the German Sturmgewehr. And that assault rifle was full automatic fire and semi auto. So, it was a select- fire weapon. So, assault firearms are not assault rifles and assault weapons, which you may have heard that term assault weapon, is what the Federal law at one point banned back in 1994. But that law went away in 2004, and it hasn’t come back. So, the Federal assault weapon ban has been DOA since 2004. New Jersey still has an assault firearm law, and neither of those are assault rifles, of which the traditional classic Sturmgeweher, a medium caliber firearm that would be select fire. Page – 3 – of 11 Evan Nappen 11:09 So, what New Jersey did was contrive this definition with this complicated five parts. The first part is a laundry list of about 67 named guns. Now, of these named guns, some of them I’ve never even encountered in the wild. Okay? I’ve never even seen some of these that are on this list, and some, I think, are just made up. Maybe they like read it on the internet somewhere and thought it qualified as an “assault firearm”. But if your gun is a named gun on the list, then it becomes banned by name. Then if it’s not on the list or it’s not exactly as named on the list, then the other part of the law identified any firearm manufactured under any designation which is substantially identical to any of the firearms on the list. Evan Nappen 12:07 So, the question became, well, what does “substantially identical” mean? I mean, even think about those two words for a minute – substantially identical. Well, identical means exact. Substantial means almost. How could something be almost exact? It’s like being a little bit pregnant. I mean, you are or you’re not. I mean, this is ridiculous. You now have to guess, when this law came out, is my gun substantially identical to a gun on the list? What does that even mean? I brought a challenge to that. It was in the case of State v. Merrill, and I won. It was on an MAK 90, where the judge tossed the assault farm law in the trial court. It was Judge Farren in Monmouth County in State v. Merrill. He tossed the law as being unconstitutional, not because of the Second Amendment, but tossed it because of being vague, unconstitutionally vague. A person could not understand from the law what’s banned. In order for a law to be valid criminally, you have to understand how to conform your behavior, and under this law, you couldn’t. Because no one could tell what “substantially identical” meant. Evan Nappen 13:13 Then along came a Federal lawsuit, after I won it in State court, trying to knock out the law. And in that case, the Attorney General named in the lawsuit filed the Attorney General Guidelines to save the law by defining what “substantially identical” meant in that part of the definition. He defined substantially identical as the 1994 Federal Crime Bill definition of a assault firearm that was feature specific, even though New Jersey didn’t have a feature specific ban. The ’94 Crime Bill is what became essentially New Jersey’s list of compliant guns or not, and that is what we’re still using to this day. Those guidelines from the Attorney General. So, when you talk about whether a gun is compliant or not, and you go to those guidelines, that’s where the substantially identical comes in. Evan Nappen 14:16 So, when you look at the list of guns, it says on there Colt AR-15 and CAR-15. And let’s say you have a Bush Master, you know, XM 15, or you have Davis, or whatever. It doesn’t matter is, but it’s like an AR- type platform. Is it substantially identical or not to this? How do we know? Well, that’s where the Attorney General Guidelines came in to save what was otherwise an unconstitutional law, which itself is questionable whether this. But the court upheld it based on this. Even though the question is, how did our legislators in 1990 know that their unconstitutional law that had a vague definition would be saved by a Federal bill passed in 1994, four years later? That’s pretty amazing. Their crystal ball there to know that, isn’t it? But somehow, that’s been what we’ve been living under. Page – 4 – of 11 Evan Nappen 15:12 Under the guidelines of the Attorney General, substantially identical gets defined as any semi-automatic rifle that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least two of the following features. You have to have two. And that would be a folding or telescoping stock, a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon, a bayonet mount, a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor and a grenade launcher. Now, I know a lot of you, you know, go out grenade launching on the weekend. So, beware of that one in there. If you look at these features that make a gun substantially identical or not, I mean, a bayonet mount? What the hell does a bayonet mount have to do at all with any of this? I mean, was it because of all the drive by bayonetings? It’s, it’s nuts, but this is what we live under. But the reason we have those guidelines is not because you find them in the law. You find those guidelines, saving the law’s ass, if you will, by defining the term “substantially identical” that I had gotten knocked out as unconstitutional in that State v. Merrill case. Evan Nappen 16:25 Additional definitions for assault firearm include a semi-automatic shotgun with either a magazine capacity exceeding six rounds, a pistol grip or folding stock. So, if you have a semi-automatic shotgun and it holds over six rounds. And let me just tell you, this is a great example of just how stupid the Attorney General Guidelines are. Because the Attorney General Guidelines, incorporating the Federal ’94 bill says about shotguns that it can’t exceed five rounds. Well, that’s crap. Completely wrong. New Jersey law says it can hold six. Can’t be over six. The guidelines say five but that’s because they didn’t know what they were doing when they passed the guidelines. It contradicts New Jersey’s law, okay? But with shotguns that are semi-automatic, all it takes is one feature. It’s not two. So, if you have a semi-automatic shotgun with a pistol grip, it’s an assault firearm. If you have a semi-automatic shotgun with a folding stock, it’s an assault firearm. If you have a semi-automatic shotgun that holds over six rounds, then it’s an assault firearm. Okay? It’s a one-feature deal on shotguns. Evan Nappen 17:38 Now, if you have a pump action shotgun, if you have a wonderful Mossberg 590 or a tactical Remington 870 or any other pump shotgun, you can have any damn feature you want on it. You can have a bayonet mount. You can have folding stock. You can have a magazine capacity of a tube that holds nine rounds. No problem. You can have a shroud on it. You can whatever you want on a pump shotgun. No problem. Pumps are not covered by this at all. So, trick out your pump shotgun to your heart’s desire, but be very careful when it comes to your semi-automatic shotgun. Evan Nappen 18:24 It also prohibited, under another section, a semi-automatic rifle with a fixed magazine capacity exceeding 10 rounds. However, the original definition in 1990 set a semi-automatic firearm with a fixed magazine capacity exceeding 15 rounds, and this included tube-fed .22s, your classic Marlin Model 60, and you know your Remingtons and Winchesters that were semi-auto and held over 15 rounds in the mag tube. But what happened was they became a laughing stock, New Jersey, over their ban on .22s, and it became detrimental to them trying to oppress our rights so badly that they actually amended New Jersey’s assault firearm law to exclude tube-fed .22s. So, if you now have a semi-automatic .22 rifle that has a fixed tubular magazine and holds over 10 rounds, it is not an assault firearm. It’s legal. Your Page – 5 – of 11 tube-fed, semi-auto .22 can hold as many rounds as the tube wishes, and is possible to hold. Not a problem. So, that’s how that works. Evan Nappen 19:45 And then finally, they throw in this ridiculous part or combination of parts designed or intended to convert a firearm into an assault firearm. Don’t you love when the definition uses its own words to define itself? Say, that isn’t vague or confusing, is it? Or any combination of parts in which an assault fire may be readily assembled if all those parts are in the possession or under control of the same person. So, you have that catch all of parts nonsense as well. So that is New Jersey’s assault firearm definition. Evan Nappen 20:18 Possession of an assault farm is extremely serious in New Jersey. It’s a crime of the second degree. It carries up to 10 years in State Prison, and it has a minimum mandatory of three and a half years, no chance of parole. If you get convicted of possession of an assault firearm, you’re looking at the judge’s hands being tied, and you will have to do a minimum of three and a half years with no parole in State Prison. Additionally, if you’re charged with assault firearm, you will be thrown in the Gulag, and there’s a presumption against you getting bail if you’re charged, not even convicted, just charged with possession of an assault firearm. New Jersey has lost its mind when it comes to this and so many other gun laws, but it’s always worth a review. I want to make it clear to my listeners just how bad it is, so that you don’t end up a GOFU on New Jersey’s idiotic assault firearm ban. Evan Nappen 21:20 Hey, let me mention our good friends at WeShoot. Of course, WeShoot is the range where Teddy and I shoot. They have great training and a beautiful range, right there in Lakewood, New Jersey, centrally located. They’re a great resource. You can get your CCARE certificate there so you can get your carry, ad you can get all kinds of training. They offer other training for a carry license from other states. They can offer you advanced training, great range, so you can hone your skills and stay on target. WeShoot. You go to weshootusa.com. Beautiful photographs. They’ve got the WeShoot girls there posing with great guns. You’ll love looking at that. And you can check out their pro shop where they have great deals. Great gear, great guns, and great folks at WeShoot, weshootusa.com. It’s a great place. We love it, and I know you will, too. Evan Nappen 22:21 Aso in this battle, this entire time, it’s been the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs (ANJRPC). The Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs are in the courts right now battling the assault firearm law. I’m feeling more and more hopeful, folks that we’re going to see the Supreme Court take up assault firearms and large capacity magazine cases. New Jersey’s fighting it out. It may, in fact, be the New Jersey case that the Supreme Court hears down the road, maybe others. They’re proceeding pretty rapidly to the Supreme Court. We’re getting mixed decisions in the different jurisdictions, which also leads to the Supreme Court wanting to take the cases. It is really important that we finally get a case from the Supreme Court where they look at items that get banned. Page – 6 – of 11 Evan Nappen 23:11 The Supreme Court does have two cases this session that they’ve picked looking at the “sensitive places”, which is really important, because that will help fight New Jersey’s Carry Killer bill. It goes at one of the laws that New Jersey, in fact, has regarding property, private property, and whether or not it can be banned. They’re also looking at whether marijuana can be a disqualifier or not, whether that’s a lawful disqualifier that can take away your Second Amendment rights. They may finally eliminate Bang or Bong. You can’t have both. So, these cases will be very interesting, and they also can have much more far reaching consequences and help us in our battle to fight the gun rights oppression. So, these are things to look forward to. And your State Association, the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs, is there fighting these issues out and filing amicus briefs in other cases, and also in the legislature with our paid lobbyists full time. Keeping an eye on the shenanigans going on down there. So, make sure you join the Association so you can stay updated and you can take action as you get those email alerts. It’s very important. So, join anjrpc.org today. Evan Nappen 24:36 And let me also mention my book, New Jersey Gun Law. It’s the Bible of Jersey gun law. It’ll help you stay legal in New Jersey and not fall into these traps and these things that we talk about, like the whole understanding of assault firearms. If you’re confused by what I said, you can read it slowly, carefully in my book, under the chapter assault farms. I put it in question and answer so anyone can understand it. I want you to understand it. I want my fellow gun owners not to be turned into criminals and to lose their gun rights. It’s why I wrote the book. So, get your copy today. Go to EvanNappen.com, EvanNappen.com, and get my book, New Jersey Gun Law. It makes a great holiday gift. Check it out, the 25th Anniversary Edition. And when you get the book, scan the front cover, the QR code right there, and you will get our link right to my archive, where you can download the 2025 Comprehensive Update. Of course, I’ll be doing updates for the new year, and you’ll want to get them. You’ll get notified of that and any other crazy changes that take place in New Jersey. We have to be eternally vigilant. Teddy, what do you have for us this week? Teddy Nappen 25:53 Well, as you know, Press Checks are always free. And this is something that you know when you see it, you have to think, what would the Left do if they had unfettered power? If they, you know, added more states and packed the court and made every illegal a voter? If they had unfettered power, what does that lead to? Well, I was flipping through Bearing Arms, and sure enough, a British man was arrested for a picture of himself posing with a shotgun. This is an article by Tom Knighton. (https://bearingarms.com/tomknighton/2025/12/01/british-man-arrested-for-picture-of-him-shooting- shotgun-n1230765) Evan Nappen 26:34 He was posing with the shotgun. Where? Teddy Nappen 26:37 Correct. In the United States! Yeah, of course, they got arrest the man for posing with something that’s across the entire continent. The British IT consultant was arrested after posting a photograph of himself holding a gun during the holidays in the United States. The case drew sharp criticism from Elon Musk Page – 7 – of 11 everybody as West Yorkshire. He was shocked after police visited then detained him over the image, which he says was taken legally on private property in Florida. Evan Nappen 27:05 Wait, there’s guns in Florida? Teddy Nappen 27:16 I know – shocker. The West Yorkshire Police later visited his home and advised him to be careful about what he posts online. Evan Nappen 27:27 What’s all this, then? What’s all this then? Teddy Nappen 27:33 Right! Yeah, and the officers did not ask to see any proof that he had taken the photograph in the U.S. as they then returned to his home at 10 pm and promptly arrested him. The bail documents referred showed there were allegations of possessing a firearm with a cause, with intent to cause fear of violence, as well as separate allegations of stalking linked to another photo. Evan Nappen 28:04 Are you sure this wasn’t a Monty Python episode? I mean, it’s unbelievable. Teddy Nappen 28:09 Yeah, and he was held overnight before being interviewed. So, they locked him up and said, all right, we’re gonna get you in the morning. Evan Nappen 28:17 They jailed him over it even. Good grief. Teddy Nappen 28:19 They dropped the charges. But then said, you better not lead any more incitement as you posted a photo. Evan Nappen 28:25 Oh, God, you can’t. Teddy Nappen 28:28 You can’t get any more Orwellian than that. Being arrested over a photograph. Not even possession of firearms, because they can’t do that in England. A photograph. Evan Nappen 28:41 Well, you know, I had a case similar, Teddy. Not quite that, but close, you know. When I had a case with a guy whose son had passed the New Jersey Hunter and was a New Jersey Hunter. He was posing with his gun. He just had a picture with his firearm. Nothing bad. No threats, nothing. And they Page – 8 – of 11 went and tried to cause a huge problem for him and his family. It was outrageous over just a picture of his son legally with a gun. And that was New Jersey. Now, luckily, he didn’t get arrested and criminally charged and thrown in jail. But still, you know, these things can happen even in New Jersey, and it’s getting worse and worse. So, we have to be very vigilant of this. And it shows you. I mean, the U.K. is just the, I would call them, the formerly Great Britain. Formerly Great Britain. Teddy Nappen 29:47 I just call it hell. Because what they are looking to do now, I just. I like to highlight these stories that have come up in the past, because unfortunately, the Left are very good at memory holing the utter insanity they pull. For instance, in the U.K., and this is from The Mirror by Kelly-Anne Mills. (https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/autistic-girl-who-told-cop-30673891) Remember the autistic girl who got arrested for using “homophobic language” for calling the cop, oh, you’re my lesbian Nana. They dragged her to the police and promptly arrested her. Arresting an autistic girl, 16 years old, for saying she looks like my lesbian Nana, who she did have. Evan Nappen 30:34 She didn’t say it in a bad way. Teddy Nappen 30:36 No, she just said you look like my Nana. Evan Nappen 30:40 Yeah. Teddy Nappen 30:41 And it showed her being dragged out, which, or if you they go into like, for autistic people, can’t, they freak out if you even touch them. But the dragging her through in the massive footage, which, it’s just such an embarrassment. By the way, it was the West Yorkshire Police. I’m noticing a pattern being the Orwellian thought crime police. They outdid themselves with this one, which this came up recently. Do you remember that woman who was arrested for silent prayer? Evan Nappen 31:11 Oh, a thought crime. Thought crime, that’s good. Yeah, great. Teddy Nappen 31:15 Yeah, well, finally it came due where the West Midland Police were forced to pay 13,000 pounds to the woman for falsely arresting her. Teddy Nappen 31:27 For silently praying outside an abortion clinic. But take this as you will. She was still arrested for thought crime. This is coming right from the ADF International U.K. Utter insanity. (https://adfinternational.org/en-gb/news/silent-prayer-arrest-payout) And when I look at this, I see this is what the Left wants. They want you and I, Dad, to be dragged out and arrested for our speech, Page – 9 – of 11 because that’s the only way they can win. They can’t win in the battlegrounds of ideology. Showed that by them killing Charlie Kirk. Now they want to go for arresting you for your ideas. That is their goal. Evan Nappen 31:27 Good. Evan Nappen 32:03 We couldn’t do the Gun Lawyer show in the U.K. We’d be raided, jailed, and forget it. Yeah. I mean, you know, we still have a First Amendment here, and we love the entire Constitution, not just the Second Amendment. But we’re facing oppression of all our Constitutional rights, but at least we still have them. It’s really sad about how the formerly Great Britain has been just turned into a laughing stock and a place that I wouldn’t even want to step foot in. I mean, at one point I would have loved to have gone there. But nope, not anymore, man. Not a chance. They are just nuts, and their suppression of so many rights and what they’ve let happen to their country is just sad, very sad. Evan Nappen 32:57 Hey, let me tell you about this week’s GOFU. This week’s GOFU is an important GOFU because we have the holidays coming up. And, you know, we all, I’m sure, love to watch A Christmas Story, right? A Christmas Story is a classic with Ralphie. But the star of A Christmas Story, not just Ralphie, is the Daisy BB gun, right? The Daisy BB gun. And I’m sure many of you have fond memories if you were fortunate enough as a kid to have a Daisy BB gun. But I’ve got to tell you, BB guns in New Jersey are firearms, folks. Keep that in mind. A BB gun is defined as a firearm in New Jersey. You cannot just give a BB gun to your child, to your son or to your daughter. You cannot do that. It’s the same as if you just gave them a gun. Evan Nappen 34:01 If you buy a BB gun, it’s your BB gun. If you want to shoot the BB gun with your child, you need to be with them in the same way as if it is a modern cartridge firearm. You can’t just give them that BB gun to keep in their room, to go out in the woods alone and play with it and have fun like we did in the old days. You cannot do that. It is a firearm. You can lose your gun rights and even face criminal charges. And so can your child. So, the GOFU is, remember, air guns are firearms in New Jersey. Treat them the same as firearms in any way that you would want to give a firearm, okay? Gifting a firearm in New Jersey itself is not permitted without proper paperwork. So, you can’t buy any gun for anyone and just give it to them. They’re going to have to have a transfer done with paper, with a pistol purchase permit for handguns and a firearm ID card for long arms. And if they’re not immediate family, it has to go through a dealer. The only way you gift a gun in New Jersey is with full paperwork. So, that’s the GOFU. Keep it in mind during this holiday season. Evan Nappen 35:33 This is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens. Page – 10 – of 11 Speaker 2 35:44 Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state. Page – 11 – of 11 Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S3 E267_Transcript About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets. Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News. As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists. He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America. Email Evan Your Comments and Questions  [email protected] Join Evan’s InnerCircleHere’s your chance to join an elite group of the Savviest gun and knife owners in America.  Membership is totally FREE and Strictly CONFIDENTIAL.  Just enter your email to start receiving insider news, tips, and other valuable membership benefits.   Email (required) *First Name *Select list(s) to subscribe toInnerCircle Membership Yes, I would like to receive emails from Gun Lawyer Podcast. (You can unsubscribe anytime)Constant Contact Use. Please leave this field blank.var ajaxurl = "https://gun.lawyer/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php";

  Episode 266-NJ Target-rich for DOJ Also Available OnSearchable Podcast Transcript Gun Lawyer — Episode 266 Transcript SUMMARY KEYWORDS Second Amendment, gun rights, Justice Department, civil rights, New Jersey, institutionalized racism, carry permits, mental health disqualifiers, unlawful possession, extreme risk protection orders, national reciprocity, gun laws, Second Amendment oppression, gun rights office, gun lawyer. SPEAKERS Evan Nappen, Teddy Nappen, Speaker 2 Evan Nappen 00:16 I’m Evan Nappen. Teddy Nappen 00:18 And I’m Teddy Nappen. Evan Nappen 00:20 And welcome to Gun Lawyer. So, here’s an exciting bit of news, and that is that the, and this is, by the way, from Reuters, the “US Justice Department plans gun rights office within Civil Rights unit”. (https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/us-justice-department-plans-gun-rights-office-within-civil- rights-unit-2025-11-25/) This is a long time in coming, my friends. According to the article, it says the Justice Department plans to expand gun rights protections with a new office in its civil rights division dedicated to enforcing the U.S. constitutional right to bear arms. The office is called the Second Amendment Rights Section, and expects to open on December 4, and it will be dedicated to investigating local laws or policies limiting gun rights. Oh, my God, New Jersey is a target-rich environment. I think this section could dedicate itself full time just to bringing civil rights charges against New Jersey. The article further states here that the section intends to execute the broad policy directions from a February executive order issued by President Trump directing Bondi to comb the entire U.S. government to assess any ongoing infringements of gun rights. So now they’re going to be looking even closer at localities. Evan Nappen 02:11 Now, apparently, very interestingly, earlier this year, by the way, there was a civil rights investigation launched by the DOJ against the LA Sheriff’s Department who were slow walking approvals for concealed carry permits, and gun rights groups launched a lawsuit over that department’s process fees and wait times. Well, good grief. If you want to see slow walking, just look at New Jersey. Look how long they get to take on issuing licenses for us to exercise our Constitutional rights. Now I’ve just come up with, right away, six key areas I’d love for the civil rights section to look at, and if they are listening, I’d be happy to speak for free, to advise in any capacity along these lines of my knowledge of New Page – 1 – of 11 Jersey gun law and what New Jerseyans have been suffering for years at the hands of the Second Amendment oppressionists. Evan Nappen 03:32 Let’s take a look at just a short list of maybe a half dozen issues that are out there in New Jersey that need to be investigated for civil rights violations. Number one, we have documented institutionalized racism. So, this blends the traditional civil rights investigations into racism with the new sections dedication to the Second Amendment. The actual data of the institutionalized racism is out there and provided by none other than the New Jersey Attorney General. In terms of carry licensing, in terms of gun licensing, the denial rate for blacks, utilizing what I call the all inclusive miscellaneous weasel clause, which is officially known as “public health, safety, and welfare”. This is the vague disqualifier found under our gun licensing law under N.J.S. 2C:58-3c., which is the standard applied to every gun license in New Jersey, whether it’s a Firearms ID Card, Pistol Purchase Permit or Permit to Carry a Handgun. And what is discovered here is that blacks are denied more than two and a half times to whites under that provision, folks. Evan Nappen 05:17 We’re not even talking any other disqualifiers where there are higher ratios of, you know, per se disqualifiers like felony convictions and all that. We’re not even including that institutionalized racism, which gets even to another level. We’re just talking about abuse of the arbitrary, subjective standard by issuing authorities in New Jersey to have data, demonstrable data, of racism. Here’s something that they can jump on to go after — public health, safety, and welfare. That arbitrary and subjective requirement needs to go. It is the key area of abuse. And yes, it’s applied disproportionately to minorities, but it also is applied arbitrarily to thousands of New Jersey gun owners who wish to lawfully exercise their Second Amendment rights. So, that is an excellent area for this civil rights division to examine. Evan Nappen 06:36 Additionally, New Jersey has disqualifiers that go beyond and questions that go beyond anything else out there, particularly under federal law. New Jersey asks, have you ever been treated or observed for any physical or mental condition? So, if you’ve just seen a psychiatrist, now that’s questioned on the form. And now you have to pay to hopefully find a doctor who’s not a coward, who’s willing to say, even though they know in their professional opinion, you’re safe for guns, but they have to take on that liability and be willing to say that you are safe for firearms, for you to exercise your Second Amendment rights simply because you were treated or observed for a mental condition. Even further under the Carry Killer bill, not only are involuntary mental health commitments a per se disqualifier, but in New Jersey, voluntary commitments, if you voluntarily went to get some help, you now have to get a mental health expungement of those records. Evan Nappen 07:55 And folks, that is not an easy thing to do. It costs thousands of dollars and lots of legal time. We have to file a court action to get a mental health expungement, and you need a doctor’s report to accompany that, that you have to pay for to get a mental health expungement. And we’re talking here about a voluntary commitment, no less touching even upon involuntary commitment. This causes enormous Page – 2 – of 11 problems, an enormous expense burden. It’s another outrage. The whole abuse regarding psychological treatment being turned into a disqualifier is another tool of the Second Amendment oppressionists to stop the lawful exercise of Second Amendment rights. Evan Nappen 08:54 How about examining New Jersey’s absolutely insane, draconian extreme, beyond belief, penalties for simple charges of unlawful possession. And look, you might say, well, no one should unlawfully possess, and this is the game that they play. But in reality, the exemptions are so narrow that if you’re in any way outside them, you can become a victim of New Jersey gun laws. If you’re charged with unlawful possession of a handgun because you went to your friend’s house with the gun and you didn’t have a carry permit. If you brought it empty, unloaded in the box, just to show them, and your friend even wanted you to bring it over to show it to him. Well, there’s no exemption that allows for that. You get charged with unlawful possession of a handgun. You’re looking at a Second Degree, felony level offense. It carries up to 10 years in State Prison and has a minimum mandatory three and a half years, with no chance of parole, and there is no exception. If you get convicted of unlawful possession of a handgun, the judge’s hands are tied. You get hit with this draconian, extreme, insane penalty regardless of the circumstances surrounding your unlawful possession. Evan Nappen 10:31 And it doesn’t just end there, because the beginning part is when you’re charged with it. You are thrown in the Gun Owner Gulag. And what is that? That’s where New Jersey got rid of cash bails. You’re going to spend probably a week before we have any chance of even getting you out on a hearing to try to stop your pretrial detention, where as a routine by these Prosecutors Offices, as a policy of the prosecutor’s offices, they routinely seek pretrial detention on any gun charge. To hold you in jail until your trial for a simple mistake, a possessory offense. It is an outrage and an abuse of our right to a reasonable bail as well as our Second Amendment rights, and it is weaponizing the bail system with cashless bails against gun owners. And they want to make that even worse, my friends. Make it even worse by a law that’s already passed half the legislature to make it that any firearm offense has a presumption against release. This means if you’re simply charged with any firearm offense, you will have to stay locked up until your trial or until your matter gets resolved. This needs civil rights action now. How about another one. Teddy Nappen 12:09 I would add. Evan Nappen 12:10 Go ahead, Teddy. Teddy Nappen 12:11 I want them to go after the “Safe Office”, that weaponized political prosecution unit that they have set up to go after gun shops. To basically sue our rights into oblivion, creating the actual gun deserts that they’re trying to create. Just malicious prosecution. And then the back that way. Page – 3 – of 11 Teddy Nappen 12:35 How they’re trying to register gun accessories and parts or gun-related products. Evan Nappen 12:35 You’re right. Evan Nappen 12:42 By abusing the consumer protection laws. This agency itself is a civil rights violation of the Second Amendment, and that’s what they’re designed to do. To have a back door, to try to get past PLCAA, Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act, to try to go after the gun dealers. To take full advantage, under the guise of consumer protection, to create requirements and elimination of gun dealers. And you’re absolutely right, Teddy. That’s another area for this civil rights division to seriously look at, bringing an action to try to take that down. I’ll tell you another one. Red Flag in New Jersey. What is the ERPOs. The Extreme Risk Protection Order, which begins as a TERPO, a Temporary Extreme Risk Protection Order. Here’s the starting point for that. There is no due process up front. Zero. Zip. On a TERPO. Whoever makes the claim against you, you never get a say. They go to the court, and they make their claim, whether it’s the police or other parties. You’re not even told about it. They listen to whatever garbage is spewed. Nothing is there to challenge it, and a TERPO Red Flag issues, seizing your guns and taking your gun rights. Only after the damage is done, after your house is raided and searched, after your guns are seized, after your rights are yanked from you with no due process, will you finally get a hearing to actually try to fight to get your rights and your property back. And after that, the damage and the trauma by the Second Amendment oppressionists has already occurred. This is a civil rights violation they need to look into. Evan Nappen 14:40 And it doesn’t just end with TERPOs. We also have the Duty to Warn in which the abuse is hoisted upon any medical professional, doctors, nurses, even therapists, social workers, etc. They are required to immediately contact the police if you make any statement of harm to yourself or others. And it doesn’t matter whether it’s just a hyperbolic statement. It doesn’t matter that you just happen to tell a nurse that man, I had such a bad day I could kill myself, or that guy got me so mad I could kill him. It’s like making a bomb joke at the airport. Your guns are going to be seized. Your rights are going to be taken with no due process up front. Just like the TERPO. Then you get to fight later to try to get your property back, to get your rights back. And I’ll tell you what. You won’t get back. The trauma that was just inflicted on your life and on your family. Again, full due process abuse. Abuse by the system that’s dedicated to oppression of our Second Amendment rights. These are just some of the target rich environment that exists in the Democratic People’s Republic of New Jersey. So, I am looking forward to seeing this section finally standing up for the truest of all civil rights, and that is our Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms. It’s about time. And thank you to President Trump for seeing this happen. Evan Nappen 16:20 Hey, on a good news front, I want to mention about Howell, New Jersey. And this is from an article from our good friend, John Petrolino at Bearing Arms. “Howell, New Jersey, Marks the 12th Town to Rebate Carry Permit Fees”. (https://bearingarms.com/john-petrolino/2025/11/26/howell-new-jersey-marks-12th- town-to-rebate-carry-permit-fees-n1230736) That’s right. This is a movement through New Jersey in Page – 4 – of 11 which individual towns that respect the Second Amendment are passing through their municipalities, the rebate of the $100 of the $150 that would normally go to the town on a carry permit application to be rebated back to the applicant. These towns deserve a lot of credit, and this movement is great. Congratulations and a shout out to Howell for taking care of its applicants by not having them pay exorbitant fees to exercise their right to carry. To protect themselves and not be victims, but rather defenders of themselves and their loved ones. That is great news, and it is exciting to see the effort in response to the Carry Killer bill, in which these municipalities are able to at least make a statement regarding the fees. That’s really great stuff. Teddy Nappen 17:51 Hey, do you know what would be really funny? Could you imagine if that was with the court? Where, if you were charged, if you were dealing with some of the, you know, crazy, draconian gun laws, and one of the courts that was very pro-gun wanted to refund the money, or, like, cover your attorney’s fees. That would be hilarious. Evan Nappen 18:10 Hey, that’s something that they should put in, too. If you’re wrongfully denied any gun license, you should be able to get attorneys fees paid by the Government. Absolutely. Of course, they don’t have that here, but in other states, they do have it. For example, in New Hampshire, they have it, but not New Jersey. They need to put some teeth into the licensing, especially when we have these arbitrary and outrageous denials that require a legal fight. Evan Nappen 18:41 Hey, let me tell you about our good friends at WeShoot. WeShoot has some really cool stuff this week. One of their guns that they have, that they are offering is the Marlin 1895 SBL gun chambered in .45- 70.It’s got that big loop, the modern optics rail, and that unmistakable cowboy meets modern look. Teddy, do you know what movie that Marlin guide gun was used in, right? I bet you know that. Teddy Nappen 19:14 Jurassic World. Evan Nappen 19:16 Jurassic World, that’s right, and who was the actor that was there on that trike, riding with that Marlin, the perfect gun for dinosaurs? Teddy Nappen 19:24 Chris Pratt. Evan Nappen 19:24 Oh, yeah. You are so good at movies. I love that Teddy and yeah. So, if you want a dinosaur killer, if you’re looking to be ready in case they end up cloning with DNA, there’s no gun better, really, than the Marlin, at least for handiness. I mean, maybe a .50 BMG that you can’t possess in New Jersey might be better, but they’re a bit unwieldy, you know. But the Marlin, the Marlin, is a great gun. And Teddy, you and I both know that, because that’s our bear hunting gun. We’ve both taken bear bears very Page – 5 – of 11 effectively with our Marlin guide guns. This happens to be a stainless version with a big loop, but I can even go further and advocate that the Marlin 1895 guide gun saved my ass when I was charged by a bear in Canada. That almost got me. So, it’s the old sometimes you eat the bear and sometimes the bear eats you. Well, luckily, it was me eating the bear that day, and I can thank my Marlin 1895 for that successful resolution of that conflict. Let me tell you. I love the Marlins, and that gun is my favorite, that guide gun. And WeShoot’s got them. So, check it out. Evan Nappen 20:40 Also, they have the Glock 19 V Series, the new Glock V. It’s a clean, upgraded take on the legendary Glock 19 platform with enhanced slide cuts. It’s optics ready and super trusted. Of course, it has a 15 plus one capacity, but they only have the 10 round mag in New Jersey, because New Jersey does not believe that your life is worth five extra rounds. Your life’s only worth 10 at best in New Jersey. So, it’s limited, but the Glock V Series 19 is there at WeShoot. And then let me also point out something else about WeShoot that you may find interesting. And that is the WeShoot girls, and they’re featuring Sarah Sablom. She’s back, and she’s showing her country side. And it is very nice to see the beautiful firearms and the WeShoot girls. They have such wonderful photography, and I would highly recommend checking out the WeShoot’s website at weshootusa.com. Members will also receive their pew pew weekly, pew pew, which has all kinds of updates and great things going on at WeShoot. WeShoot is a place where Ted and I both shoot and where we get our training. It’s a fantastic range, and you will love it. Great pro shop, great folks. We love WeShoot, and so will you. Evan Nappen 22:16 Let me also mention our good friends at the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. They are the umbrella organization of gun clubs. They’re the number one gun rights defender in New Jersey, and they’re litigating as we speak in federal court. We’re seeing more and more results, and it’s getting more and more exciting every day. As we get closer and closer to more Supreme Court decisions and more cases going up the chain to reach the Supreme Court, we are winning step by step, bit by bit. We lost our rights incrementally, and we are gaining them back incrementally. And the Association is at the forefront, helping to achieve that. By being a member, you’ll get their newsletter and their updates. You’ll be provided with a method to have your voice heard to our legislators. As we have these huge fights with draconian, horrible Second Amendment oppression bills coming our way, we’ve got to stand strong and stand united. And the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs is a way for you to do that. Go to anjrpc.org and join today. ANJRPC.org. Evan Nappen 23:34 And I would be remiss if I did not mention my book, New Jersey Gun Law, the Bible of New Jersey gun law. It is the book used by everybody, and it is the only book that explains the insanity that is New Jersey gun law. And I do it by Question and Answer on 120 topics, over 500 pages. This will help you not become a GOFU. This will help you stay legal. This will help you to not be victimized by New Jersey and the Second Amendment oppressionists that run this state’s gun rights into a position of danger, and this will help you to avoid that danger if you want to get your copy. It makes a great gift for the holidays, too, folks. Hint, hint. Go to EvanNappen.com, EvanNappen.com, and order your copy today. And when you do, scan the QR code on the front and join my private subscriber base. You be able to access immediately all the updates so the book stays current. It’s going to remain staying current. You Page – 6 – of 11 can get the chapter updates that are already there, including the 2025 Comprehensive Update. And you will be seeing new updates as the laws change and the case law changes. And you’ll be able to grab that great chapter on “sensitive places” so you know where you can and can’t carry. Teddy, what do you have for us this week? Teddy Nappen 25:10 Well, as you know, Press Checks are always free. And you know, the holidays are coming up, but you want to always keep on a little purview to see what our, I just call them what they are. Our enemies. Our gun rights suppressors. And it turns out the dollar store Every Town known as Giffords decided to put out a new message, yeah. This comes from Bearing Arms, our buddies at Bearing Arms News. Cam Edwards. Evan Nappen 25:42 Ah, a great site. Teddy Nappen 25:43 There’s a whole article about it, where this is their push against, the war on national reciprocity. (https://giffords.org/analysis/the-gun-lobby-wants-to-pass-a-national-concealed-carry-mandate-its-a- really-bad-idea/) You can really tell the Dems are nervous about national reciprocity. They’re losing Evan Nappen 25:56 Well, it’s a game changer. Teddy Nappen 25:58 Yeah. They are so terrified of it passing that they’ve decided to declare a full on assault and attack national reciprocity and their whole article. This is where, this is the, this is the caption that is on their site when they’re blasting it. Evan Nappen 26:14 Oh, I can’t wait. Teddy Nappen 26:15 Congress passes national conceal carry mandate. Anyone you see, could have a gun on them. Evan Nappen 26:24 Oh, my God, anyone could have a gun? Teddy Nappen 26:27 Anyone. Evan Nappen 26:27 Wait, anyone could have a gun? Wait. Well, luckily, that’s not happening now. Page – 7 – of 11 Teddy Nappen 26:33 I know, right? Evan Nappen 26:34 I know. I know. Teddy Nappen 26:35 The police would be powerless to protect you. Evan Nappen 26:38 Oh, powerless, absolutely powerless. I thought that’s what the Left wants, though. Isn’t that the whole defund the police thing was to make them powerless? Are you thinking. Evan Nappen 26:48 They would support it if it was, but of course, it’s not true. So. Teddy Nappen 26:48 Correct. Teddy Nappen 26:52 Well, sorry. That requires standing on your grounds and principles, but they, you know. Evan Nappen 26:57 Right. Exactly. Teddy Nappen 26:58 Their house of cards a hypocrisy, but. Evan Nappen 27:00 Exactly. Teddy Nappen 27:01 Oh, I love this. Leaders must stand up for public safety to put a stop to the gun lobby’s dangerous agenda. Evan Nappen 27:12 Public safety is being armed. That’s the true public safety. Being disarmed is when there’s public danger. The public is in danger from the predators out there, if you cannot defend yourself. That’s real public safety, when you can defend yourself. Teddy Nappen 27:31 It’s just utter disgusting what they try to argue. And if you go to the article by this moron, Chris Harris. Republicans are trying to pass one of the most dangerous bills through Congress this country has seen in decades. Really, really. There’s nothing at all that’s been passed in the U.S. Page – 8 – of 11 Evan Nappen 27:54 Well, what’s so dangerous about it. What’s so dangerous about it is, once we have that, then carry is going to become so much better for everybody, and it will help kill the Second Amendment oppression that is out there. Because once everyone is free throughout the states to carry, as long as they’re legal to do so in their home state, we will see not only a tremendous drop in crime, but we will see an even more commitment, if you will, more of an individual having a stake, having skin in the game, for wanting to protect Second Amendment rights. Because at that point, we’ll be able to defend ourselves anywhere in the U.S. And that is what the Second Amendment was meant to do. It’s what it was meant to do. So, they are scared of it, because they know that they will be destroyed by it and that their hypocrisy will be demonstrated. Because, you know, they’re claiming BITS, right? Blood In The Streets. It’s always a BITS. And, of course, it doesn’t happen. Just the opposite happens, right? Teddy Nappen 29:19 If you look through the article, it is just littered with all the legal myths that they try to push out. Like, usually when you want to carry a concealed gun in public, you have to follow the rules in your state that outline who is allowed to do so. Oh, you have to follow the law if you’re carrying. Almost like if the bill did pass, you’d still have to follow the laws of the state. Evan Nappen 29:43 Right. That doesn’t change. That doesn’t change. The only thing is, what happens is New Jersey, who refuses to recognize any other state’s license. I guess because New Jersey’s carry license is so great that no other state could even compare to the greatness of New Jersey’s carry license that they do not honor any other state. And what happens is law-abiding citizens who think, hey, you honor my driver’s license. Why would you not honor my gun license? I mean, I didn’t get fingerprinted and background checked to get a driver’s license, but you honor that. Yet here we are where we don’t have that. We have a patchwork quilt of recognition through America. And that is not what was meant under the Second Amendment, and what it does is turn law-abiding citizens into criminals. It puts us in more danger by not being able to defend ourselves. Evan Nappen 30:52 National reciprocity would be, if you asked me, what is the number one thing? If I could just get one federal law, and that’s all I was able to get, if you could get one federal law passed, what would it be? It would be national reciprocity, and that’s why they’re that scared of it. Because it is and will be the biggest, greatest game changer, and will save so many lives and make it so that their evil plans to oppress the Second Amendment will be knocked back as severely as could ever have occurred in the history of the United States. So, that’s where we are at. Teddy Nappen 31:41 It goes back to, it goes back to Jeff Cooper’s quote, the criminal must fear the victim. He does not fear the judge. He does not fear the execution. He doesn’t fear the trial. He doesn’t fear the jail. He must fear the victim. That is how you drive down crime. Page – 9 – of 11 Evan Nappen 31:59 Right! Teddy Nappen 32:00 Why you think, yeah, one of the, during the whole Crime Wave, what was the most popular movies? Dirty Harry and Death Wish. That is what people want — to fight back. Evan Nappen 32:10 And what’s really funny is the very first thing you said. People would be able to carry, and you wouldn’t know. That itself, right there is a public safety feature. Because if it’s known now that we have national reciprocity and even more people can be carrying, then the criminal doesn’t know who is carrying and who is not carrying. And that itself becomes a deterrent. So that even those who don’t choose to carry will gain the safety because of those that do so. It has the effect of protecting both those who carry guns and those who do not. Evan Nappen 32:58 And Teddy, let me tell you about this week’s GOFU, which is really important. This is the Gun Owner Fuck Up. This is where we have real cases of real people who make mistakes, and it costs some big time. And this is where you get to learn it for free. And right now, in the middle of the travel season with the holidays, I’ve got to emphasize, folks. When you travel, especially going on airplanes, make sure you have no guns, no ammo, nothing that you’re not aware of. And if you are going to travel with firearms and ammo, that you do it correctly as the law allows. We get cases, and I get them frequently, where people forget that they have their gun, either on their person or don’t even know they have it in their bag. They get stopped at the airport. They get arrested, thrown in the Gulag, charged with draconian New Jersey offenses. It happens a lot. Please make sure pat yourself down before you go through any metal detector. Pat yourself down twice. Make sure you didn’t forget your pocket knife. Make sure you don’t have anything on you. Evan Nappen 34:20 And when you travel, make sure in your bags, your carry on and your checked in, all your bags, go through them, and empty the pockets. Empty the bags out. Start from an empty bag that you’ve shaken and be sure you’ve checked every pocket. And then pack for your trip. Because this is where we see actual cases happening all the time, of people missing things. Listen, folks, if you leave one bullet by accident in a bag that you use as a range bag, and now you’re taking it through the airport as a checked bag, Boom! You’re going to have your trip ruined. You’re going to have your life ruined because you didn’t do what I’m saying here. I have case after case of that very thing. Evan Nappen 35:09 So, please be careful in the travel season. Make sure that you know exactly what’s in your bags. And if you’re going to transport firearms, ammunition, knives, anything, make sure you do it correctly. By putting it in your checked baggage, by declaring it, by make sure it’s in a hard case that’s locked with TSA locks. We’ve reviewed this multiple times. Check with the airline that you’re flying on as to what their requirements are. Make sure you declare it, follow the rules and don’t give yourself any surprises that you’ll regret. Page – 10 – of 11 Evan Nappen 35:44 This is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens. Speaker 2 35:56 Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state. Page – 11 – of 11 Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S3 E266_Transcript About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets. Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News. As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists. He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America. Email Evan Your Comments and Questions  [email protected] Join Evan’s InnerCircleHere’s your chance to join an elite group of the Savviest gun and knife owners in America.  Membership is totally FREE and Strictly CONFIDENTIAL.  Just enter your email to start receiving insider news, tips, and other valuable membership benefits.   Email (required) *First Name *Select list(s) to subscribe toInnerCircle Membership Yes, I would like to receive emails from Gun Lawyer Podcast. (You can unsubscribe anytime)Constant Contact Use. Please leave this field blank.var ajaxurl = "https://gun.lawyer/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php";

  Episode 265-Gun Control… Now With Wi-Fi Also Available OnSearchable Podcast Transcript Gun Lawyer — Episode 265 Transcript SUMMARY KEYWORDS Glock switches, Second Amendment, machine gun, V series, full auto, semi auto, NFA, AI technology, Wi Fi surveillance, gun control, carry permits, New Jersey, gun law, self defense, legalization. SPEAKERS Evan Nappen, Teddy Nappen, Speaker 2 Evan Nappen 00:16 I’m Evan Nappen. Teddy Nappen 00:18 And I’m Teddy Nappen. Evan Nappen 00:20 And welcome to Gun Lawyer. So, you may have been seeing in the news all the hyper activity about Glock switches. And, you know, for those of you who aren’t familiar with a Glock switch, it’s a device that can be easily 3D printed that can be put on the back of a Glock slide. This allows you, by flicking a switch, to make the semi-automatic Glock pistol into a fully-automatic Glock pistol. Now, just the switch itself, if you possess just the switch, is considered a machine gun, and you can face 10 years in federal prison and all of that fun. And not to mention the state law charges as well. But you see, the Second Amendment oppression gang has taken this issue of Glock switches, you know, things produced by essentially criminals who are printing these up, procuring them, and the actual criminals getting caught with Glocks having these Glock switches, and they’ve decided, hey, we can blame Glock for illegal conversions of their gun. Evan Nappen 01:54 So, this is their new gambit to go after, essentially, the modern polymer handguns of multiple types, even by going at their ability to be converted by use of a totally prohibited and illegal device that is used by criminals and created by criminals and criminally possessed and criminally sold. But somehow that is Glocks fault, you see. So, this is the twisted world that we live in. And Glock recently, as some of you may know, discontinued their models to come out with the new V Series. And the new V Series eliminates the slide the way it was constructed, so that the Glock switch can function in the back of that slide. Okay? They changed their design, in effect, to either try to subvert the litigation from the Second Amendment oppression folks, or to try to address this issue in a mechanical way. Whatever some people think they’re, they’re rolling over, but it’s probably more along the line of a corporate decision making based on what they’re facing. Whatever the basis or reason is, I don’t know. But the bottom line is, they’ve changed their models. They have the V system coming out, which cannot use these traditional Glock switches, and lo and behold, the V’s have just hit the market. They’re out there. And guess what is now out there for the V Series? That’s right, a new Glock switch. A new Glock switch that Page – 1 – of 12makes the V Series supposedly to rock and roll. So, you know, technology constantly gets defeated if you have criminals wanting to do so. And this is just going to be an endless game of what? Re- modification to a new type of switch to another new type? I mean, it just gets to the point of silliness. Teddy Nappen 04:14 It’s very funny, too, because the meme going around is life finds a way. Evan Nappen 04:21 Yeah, life finds a way. Teddy Nappen 04:23 Life finds a way. Evan Nappen 04:24 Well, here’s, but I have the solution to the entire Glock switch issue, to the whole issue of, you know, modifying firearms into full auto and all of that. It’s real simple. We need to just legalize full auto. I mean, it’s really simple. Then it wouldn’t be an issue. Then if you want to have a Glock that has a Glock switch, if you want to have a Glock 18 that’s factory switchable, fine. If you want to have one. You see, here’s the problem. You see, it has been constructed as an argument by the oppressionists going all the way back to the 1934 Machine Gun Act, the NFA, somehow distinguishing semi- automatic from fully-automatic. And we even see the pro 2A folks, you know, try to make that distinction. Say, look, you know, my semi-auto isn’t a machine gun. It’s semi-automatic. And the antis say, well, you know, it’s easily converted or whatever. Or semis can be just as bad. So, we need to ban semi-automatics. Evan Nappen 05:39 And then you fall into that trap. It’s a trap because, folks, let’s be honest. What’s the difference between fully-automatic and semi-automatic? It’s real simple. With semi-automatic, you pull the trigger for each shot. With fully-automatic, you hold the trigger and the shots all fire. Okay, big effing deal. You’re still shooting the same bullets. You’re still firing the same gun, and you’re still blasting them out. The only difference is you don’t have to pull the trigger for each shot. Oh, my God. Okay? It’s really a phony baloney difference. We shouldn’t tolerate the difference, and machine guns shouldn’t be prohibited. It’s that simple. It is a crap distinction. Who cares if the rounds come out because you have to pull the trigger for each shot or hold the trigger for all the shots. Does it really matter? Come on. So, this whole development of this distinction is now being utilized by the anti-gunners to try to ban handguns, folks. To ban semi-auto handguns because of the artificial nature of that distinction. Evan Nappen 07:10 And we, as Pro-Second Amendment rights folks, need to break out of this and just say, legalize full auto, legalize semi, legalize pump, lever, whatever. There’s no distinguishment upon actions of a firearm. None. If it shoots, it’s a gun. We have a right to have it. Who cares how much lead it spews by whether you pull the trigger or hold the trigger. It’s just stupid. I don’t want to play on their playing field. I don’t want to accept this artificial distinction that we never should have accepted to begin with. And by the way, the original NFA, the original law from ’34 was a ban on both semi- automatic and fully- Page – 2 – of 12automatic firearms, and it evolved through the committee hearings so that semi-automatics were okay and full auto became the prohibited version. But that distinction was stupid then, and it’s stupid now. Evan Nappen 08:26 Maybe it was a way to somehow pass gun control national where, even at the time, the NRA said, we’ve solved the gun control problem for the country by having this wonderful National Firearm Act there. Look, the NRA was naive. And I’m not bashing NRA, okay? Not doing that. I’m just saying back then, maybe they thought it was the way to play it. But look, we’ve learned since then, okay? It’s not. And we’ve got to not accept it. We need the NFA gone. We should have the right to machine guns, suppressors, you name it, any other weapon. That federal law needs to go, and we need to quit the phony baloney nonsense of trying to distinguish between semi-auto and full-auto. Teddy Nappen 09:14 I will say, just kind of, I always look to the segment as to look at history. Right after World War Two, you had every soldier coming home and what was the thing they were holding? Grease guns, Thompson’s. All of them were coming home saying, like, hell yeah, that machine gun was fantastic. Evan Nappen 09:34 It saved my ass. Saved my ass. That’s right. Teddy Nappen 09:37 They had a chance. Evan Nappen 09:37 They had the opportunity. They could have. Teddy Nappen 09:41 All these people could have said. Evan Nappen 09:42 Right! Teddy Nappen 09:42 Hell, yeah, I want my machine gun. I say, it saved my ass. Evan Nappen 09:46 Why not? Teddy Nappen 09:47 True. It saved my troops. What happened? Evan Nappen 09:50 Right! Page – 3 – of 12Teddy Nappen 09:50 And they blew it. And now, Evan Nappen 09:52 Well, they were naive. They didn’t realize that opportunity, and it passed. Well, we have a new opportunity. Now is a new opportunity, especially as we’re attacking NFA with the big, beautiful lawsuit at least. Going at now that the taxes have been removed from everything except on machine guns. But if we can win getting rid of the NFA by simply having the tax removed, then the next reconciliation bill, we can remove the tax on machine guns, and machine guns will be legal, too. So, we have a pathway here to actually achieving this, and we’ll have to see. Evan Nappen 10:32 But you know, Teddy, I saw this article that’s very disturbing, because it has some serious, serious ramifications for technology and guns. This is from Zero Hedge. And the article is entitled, “Pennsylvania School District Using AI-Enabled Wi-Fi To Search Students For Firearms.” This article is from November 18, 2025, by Tyler Durden. (https://www.zerohedge.com/technology/pennsylvania- school-district-using-ai-enabled-wi-fi-search-students-firearms) And what he says in this article is very scary, okay? Very scary. Not just because of what’s going on with schools, but the actual ramifications of this. Listen to this. Pennsylvania school district is using artificial intelligence to keep guns off the campus, and the way they’re doing it, this new technology combines AI and Wi-Fi. And the way it works is spooky, because AI harnesses the district’s Wi-Fi signal to determine whether people are carrying weapons as they enter schools. Get a load of that, folks. Did you know that Wi-Fi signals can be harnessed to determine whether somebody is carrying a weapon or not? They have this technology, folks, and this school is using it. Evan Nappen 12:06 The technology was developed by CurvePoint of Pittsburgh, and it grew out of AI research from Carnegie Mellon University. And according to the company, Wi-AI uses spatial intelligence to find weapons, such as guns, before they enter a school. The AI system analyzes space and detects where potential weapons are located by interpreting how Wi- Fi signals reflect off people and objects. Let that sink in. Do you think they’re going to keep that technology just on schools? And look, it’s a question whether they should even have it in schools. There’s Fourth Amendment and all kinds of privacy issues. I get it, but think of this technology now, everywhere, everywhere. Teddy Nappen 13:05 You know what they just did. They stole a plot from Dark Knight, where you. Evan Nappen 13:10 Really? Teddy Nappen 13:10 Use sonar, because when Batman. Page – 4 – of 12Evan Nappen 13:13 Oh, you’re right. You’re absolutely right. Teddy Nappen 13:15 It maps the entire city and Lucius, you know, Morgan Freeman, the character he’s like. Evan Nappen 13:20 Yeah! Teddy Nappen 13:21 This is wrong. Did they see that movie and like, hell yeah, that’s a great idea. Evan Nappen 13:27 Ha, ha, ha! I think that’s what they did. I think that’s what they did. You’re absolutely right. Yeah, this is, this is the Dark Knight apocalyptic scenario here, and we’re dealing now with really a brand new world of Fourth Amendment concerns. And this is very spooky. In the article here, they quote from a Seattle- based lawyer named Evan Oshan, he happens to have the same name as me. No relation. It says technology could devolve into allowing warrantless searches of every person who enters a campus with no evidence or reasonable suspicion. Then he goes on, and if not checked, technology could be implemented in all public spaces, creating an even larger surveillance state. Let’s consider that, oh boy. Evan Nappen 14:28 And he says this technology creates a slippery slope. Today, it’s Wi-Fi signals searching for weapons in schools. Tomorrow, it’s public transportation, shopping malls, government buildings. Where does it end? The Constitution provides the guardrails, and we ignore them at our peril. He’s not kidding, folks. You can see this being abused by states like New Jersey to the nth degree. And even if you’re a legal licensed carrier, are you now going to be subject to just random stop and search? Stop and frisk? Stop over that because of Wi-AI? And I thought of something else here that isn’t even mentioned in the article. If this technology is accessible in this way to just this institution, well, criminals that want to rob a place can probably hack into Wi-Fi in a given area, and using this technology, determine if anybody is armed or not before they hit it. It seems to have an amazing potential to set up for crime. It can be used by criminals. This is scary stuff. It intrudes on our rights. We need to pay attention. They need to start putting some laws in place to protect us from Wi-Fi AI. Teddy Nappen 16:06 I will say for the one bit as a counter. The same mad lab that put the Glock switch on the V, someone is immediately going to start working on guns that don’t get detected. I promise you that. They will. Evan Nappen 16:19 Well, we can hope for that. Teddy Nappen 16:21 Yeah, let’s hope for that. Page – 5 – of 12Evan Nappen 16:22 Yeah. Let’s hope we can have Wi-Fi deflection, Wi-Fi stealth technology, you know. Yeah, yeah, good. Well, there’s always hope that technology will save us in protecting our rights. That’s true. By the way, I want to also make a quick point here about a cool article I found in News2A, which is Second Amendment news. You can check them out at www. news2a.com. They had an article here that says, “As Carry Permits Surge, New Jersey Begs Court to Deny Sensitive Places Carry Ban Rehearing.” (https://www.news2a.com/new-jersey/as-carry-permits-surge-new-jersey-begs-court-to-deny-sensitive- places-carry-ban-rehearing/) So, we’re in the fight, as you know, over the Carry Killer bill, and we’re trying to get an en banc hearing with a full panel as we’re continuing our fight through the appeals court, probably eventually heading to the Supreme Court. One of the things I want to point out from the article, you want to read the article about that whole debate, whole debate over that, about the lawsuit and its progress go right ahead. Evan Nappen 17:28 But one tidbit here that I picked up in the article that I just want to share, that I really love. You know, prior to the Bruen decision in New Jersey, we had approximately 600 civilian carry permits issued, probably less than 600 for the whole state. The current number of carry permits in New Jersey, according to this article, which was November 17 of 2025, New Jersey carry permits, now are, issued carries now, are at 86,656 carries. And that’s according to the state’s own data. Imagine that folks almost 90,000 and growing. That is how many people wanted to carry. Wanted to be defenders instead of victims, and were stopped by New Jersey from being able to defend themselves. We’re almost at 90,000. Think of all the people that New Jersey prevented from defending themselves, and how much blood is on Jersey’s hands of victims who maybe could have saved their lives or saved their loved ones lives, if they had been allowed to defend themselves. That New Jersey prevented. And now, with a growth like that, of almost 90,000 and more, the more carry permits out there, the better, because that’s how we get the Constitutional carry. That is how we get there, and that pattern has been demonstrated historically over and over again. So, keep getting your permits. More and more permits, more and more people carrying makes us safer, and it is very encouraging to see that as we continue our fight against the Second Amendment oppression, folks. Evan Nappen 19:26 Hey, let me tell you about some very, very big news about our good friends at WeShoot. Listen to this really exciting news from WeShoot. On December 7, at 10:00 am, WeShoot will be hosting this guy, whose name is Evan Nappen, and joining Evan Nappen will be Teddy Nappen. We will be there at WeShoot on Sunday, December 7, right there. We’ll be at Out to Lunch, 264 Cedar Bridge Avenue in Lakewood. Show up for the event. It’s a great event, and I’ll be there answering all types of questions about New Jersey gun law. I’d love to meet you and see you. This is also in conjunction with U.S. Law Shield, and it’s at the Out to Lunch event room. That’s the facility where they’re holding it. At the Out to Lunch event room at 264 Cedar Bridge Avenue in Lakewood. This is in conjunction with WeShoot and U.S. Law Shield. So, come there and say hello. I love to always meet my great listeners, and I’ll probably have some books there as well that I can sign for you. So, stop by, stop by, say hello. It’s going to be good. Page – 6 – of 12Evan Nappen 21:00 Also, by the way, WeShoot has some great sales. Their so-called Double-Dipping Sale is back, and what it allows you to do is get some fantastic discounts. And check out WeShoot. And joining WeShoot. That membership gets you some great advantages, and they’re offering this week just as some samples of pretty cool stuff. Bul Armory TAC PRO 4.25″ silver. Now that is a competition tuned stunner with a crisp two and a half pound trigger, a 20 plus one capacity. But, of course, in New Jersey, you’re only allowed the 10. With a sleek silver finish that performs as good as it looks. They also have a Samurai Katana. Now this is not a sword, but named after the sword. It is a uniquely styled, battle inspired blaster with aggressive lines, custom touches and a serious presence on the range. And don’t forget, they also have a Smith & Wesson Volunteer XV, which is chambered in 5.56 and ready for action. It’s a modern sporting rifle with reliability, accuracy and American pride. So, go to WeShoot and check out all the great guns and gear. You can also get your training. It’s a fantastic range. It’s where Teddy and I shoot. I’m looking forward to doing this event and seeing all you down there. Go to weshootusa.com for more information. Evan Nappen 22:45 And let me also mention our friends at the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs, which, by the way, are involved directly in that lawsuit challenging the Carry Killer bill. The very one where the state is trying to fight us at every turn, including trying to get a full hearing from the appellate court. You want to be part of that group. You want to be part of the fight. You need to be. The Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs is your NRA state affiliate. It’s the umbrella organization of gun clubs, and they also have individual members. And by joining, you become part of the solution. So, go to ANJRPC.org for more information and being able to join that great group. You’ll be glad you did. You’ll get email alerts of all the shenanigans taking place in Trenton. And there’s some big stuff that they’re trying to give us a BOHICA on. You need to be part of the Association, and we can fight it. Really bad stuff is coming down the pike. Make sure you join anjrpc.org. Evan Nappen 24:02 Let me also shamelessly promote my book, New Jersey Gun Law, the Bible of New Jersey gun law. It is the book that everybody uses that wants to know about New Jersey gun law, and you can have your very own copy. It is over 500 pages, 120 topics, all question and answer. Just go to EvanNappen.com and order your copy today. It makes a great gift. And when you get the book, scan the front cover, and join my private subscriber base. You can immediately access the archive right there, right online. It has the 2025 Comprehensive Update, where I did chapter updates, bringing everything current. The book stays current. You can also grab the special standout chapter on “sensitive places”, so you’ll know where to carry and where you can’t. Great stuff. EvanNappen.com. Check it out. So, Teddy, what do you have for us today in Press Checks? Teddy Nappen 25:04 Well, as you know, Press Checks are always free, and one of those, you know, it’s like Thanksgivings rolling around the corner. We’re looking at, you know, what’s coming up. So, perusing through everyone’s favorite anti-gun group, known as Every Town, they decided to put out hey, you know what’s really good at Thanksgiving to talk about? Politics! Page – 7 – of 12Evan Nappen 25:33 Yeah, right. Teddy Nappen 25:34 Their recommendation, to be with your friends and family, talk about politics. Typically, Thanksgiving is the perfect time to, quote, unquote, “Debunking Gun Myths at the Dinner Table”. (https://www.everytown.org/debunking-gun-myths-at-the-dinner-table/) Evan Nappen 25:51 Oh, my God, they are. They’re the bunch of turkeys. Teddy Nappen 25:55 Oh yeah, yeah, real gobblers. But. Evan Nappen 26:01 Good one, man. They are gobblers. Teddy Nappen 26:03 Yeah. Evan Nappen 26:04 They’re definitely the world class gobblers. Teddy Nappen 26:08 Yeah. But I just love how they structure this article. I mean, it’s just. Everyone at home. Please just go and look at it, and you can laugh, because this is what they did. They highlighted one line of some argument that is made, or their quote “myth”, and then they argue their “fact” to make the argument. So, I decided, you know what? If anyone, anyone here who’s at a dinner table and decides to bring up one of their counters to the gun myth, here is my counter to you. So, let’s go through some of them, and let’s see some of their facts. Evan Nappen 26:49 What is, let’s hear their B.S. Go ahead, lay it on us. Teddy Nappen 26:51 Oh, yeah, yeah. So, one myth, criminals will always find a way to get their hands on a gun. Fact – their fact. Laws like background checks stop gun sales to criminals every day. Since 1994 these laws have blocked more than 5 million gun sales to people who could not legally buy a gun. Evan Nappen 27:16 Hey, that’s why criminals don’t have guns anymore. It was such a success that criminals just can’t get guns. It’s amazing how effective it’s been. Page – 8 – of 12Teddy Nappen 27:28 Now let me just highlight to you that the, this is from Every Town, by the way, because I love, I love using their own sources against them. Evan Nappen 27:37 Yeah! Teddy Nappen 27:37 They ranked the states with the most amount of gun control. Top nine: California, Massachusetts, Illinois, New York, Connecticut, New Jersey, Hawaii, Maryland and Washington. Please let that sink in and tell me that gun control works in these absolute shit pile of states. Evan Nappen 28:00 Right! That are the worst. The worst oppression of the Second Amendment in all those places, and they have the records for the crime. It’s exactly the opposite of what they claim. But why should they tell the truth? They just have an agenda of wanting to disarm us and make us all victims and take away our guns. Teddy Nappen 28:24 Yep. And I love this one. They love this myth. “Guns don’t kill people. People kill people.” Evan Nappen 28:32 Oh, that’s a myth. That’s a myth. I just saw a gun running down the street yesterday. You know, shooting people. It’s amazing. Yeah. Just guns kill people. Teddy Nappen 28:41 Yeah. Fact: people kill people, and more efficiently than people without guns. The U.S. gun death rate is 13 times higher than other higher income countries. Okay, first of all. Logical fallacy alert everybody. Logical fallacy alert. Mott and Bailey. You’re equating death rates of gun death rates of other countries. So, first off, pencils give bad grades, apparently. And here in this argument. Evan Nappen 29:19 And spoons are why The View is fat? Yes, the ladies of The View are fat because of spoons. Teddy Nappen 29:24 Yeah, the cackling hens, of course. But here’s another statistic, a number, that they like to ignore. This is from the CDC, 2.5 million lives are saved per year from defensive uses of a firearm. Evan Nappen 29:40 What does that conveniently ignore, Teddy? I’m sure you know. Teddy Nappen 29:44 Yeah, just you know, the lives that are saved versus the lives taken. Page – 9 – of 12Evan Nappen 29:48 Oh, lives saved. Yes, and how many lives are saved with guns? Teddy Nappen 29:54 Yeah, 2.5 million lives are saved per year with defensive use of a firearm. That is from the CDC website. Evan Nappen 30:02 Right! Guns save lives. Teddy Nappen 30:05 So, we could round it off to 3 million. So, let’s just be fair, 3 million lives, give or take. It’s utter, like they always say, if it could save one life. Well, I’ve got 3 million. Evan Nappen 30:16 There you go. There you go. Teddy Nappen 30:18 It’s just uttered, disgusting. Evan Nappen 30:21 But that’s why we do the oppo research, and this is what we’re fighting — the propaganda of the gun rights oppression movement. And we’ve got to keep up the fight. And I tell you what, at Thanksgiving, if you want to talk guns, that’s fine. Talk guns, talk pro-gun. And if you have somebody that is challenging you on it, make sure you know the facts and counter them back. This is, you know, most of the time you just want to enjoy holidays with your family. But unfortunately, every family has some that are misguided. That don’t understand the importance of our rights and don’t understand the war that is taking place upon our Constitution. So, if you’re going to talk politics, talk freedom, talk rights, and defend it vigorously. Teddy Nappen 31:24 And I will say this one, this one absolutely angers me. I always see them try, and I love this. The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. That’s their “myth”, and if more guns everywhere made safe, America would be the safest country on Earth. Instead, we have the gun homicide rate 26 time higher than higher income countries. What are higher income countries? Whatever. So, it’s something that is very, first of all, reverse Nirvana fallacy. Logical fallacy alert. If we got rid of all the guns, there would be no death, no murder. All right. The number, except the number one killer, the number one killer of children is accidents. And, quite frankly, the number one killer of mass shooters. You know what kills them? Guns! Evan Nappen 32:21 Right. That’s what stops them. Page – 10 – of 12Teddy Nappen 32:23 Yeah, even if they shoot. Evan Nappen 32:25 The reason a good guy with a gun is far from being a myth and is a fact. Is that any logical, reasonable person can individually appreciate that very fact. Because I’ll tell you right now, I’d rather have a gun and not need it than need a gun and not have it. And that need a gun aspect is what we’re talking about. Because when there’s a bad guy with a gun, you need a gun to stop that bad guy. I don’t care about statistics. I really don’t. I care about me being able to defend myself and my loved ones, and if somebody else is threatening me, it is a firearm that I need to have the most effective means of self- defense. So, when you distill it down to our own personal interests, which is what rights are all about, it’s about our individual rights, my individual right, your individual right to defend ourselves and not be victims of criminals. And I’ll tell you right now. A good guy with a gun beats a bad guy with a gun every time, and what’s no good at all is a bad guy with a gun and a good guy who has no means of self- defense. You want to really be in a lousy spot. That’s the lousy spot to be in. The bad guy with a gun and you have no means of defense, so you don’t even have to step into statistics. Don’t even need it. Teddy Nappen 33:56 Yeah, and that lousy spot, look at Britain, where the massive raping gangs all across. It took a little girl to defend herself with a hatchet and a knife. You look to Australia, with all the rampant crime of assault, theft, rape going all these quote, unquote, high income countries, you know what we have that’s different. We’re allowed to actually defend ourselves and not be prosecuted where you have no right to defend yourself. Evan Nappen 34:23 Because part of the Second Amendment is also a Constitutional right to self-defense. And you know, sometimes you hear the antis even point to Japan. They say, look, the raid in Japan where they banned guns is so much less than the U.S. Well, Japan, first of all, is a very homogeneous population, right, of Japanese. But here’s the real kicker that they don’t tell you. The percentage of violent crime amongst Japanese-Americans who have access to firearms is even less than that of the Japanese country, Japanese. So, you know, Japanese-Americans, it’s even lower. They have access to guns. So, it’s not really about the guns. It’s about the culture. And if you step back and say, hey, where are these really bad states, where is the really bad crime problems? And then you see it’s urban more than anything, and it’s urban culture more than anything. But once you start talking about having to change culture, oh, the Left doesn’t want to hear about that. It doesn’t want to hear. They’d rather blame the inanimate object and go after our ability to defend ourselves. Teddy Nappen 35:40 I also like how they always try to compare Japan. I’m like, Oh, really. And how do you feel about their immigration policies? Because I agree with those. Evan Nappen 35:50 That’s a whole other thing. Page – 11 – of 12Teddy Nappen 35:52 They always like to pick and choose those things, don’t they? Evan Nappen 35:55 Yeah, that’s pretty funny. They sure do. Well, Teddy, I want to tell you about this week’s GOGU, which is the Gun Owner Fuck Up. And we always love talking about the GOFU because these are expensive lessons learned by actual individuals with actual cases. We don’t want any of our listeners to be GOFUs and that’s why we talk about them. So, this is your chance to learn for free, expensive lessons. The GOFU this week is about trying to get gun information from the internet. Listen, folks, gun law information. Gun law information. You have to be extremely careful with AI and Google and all this. I get clients that have looked at the Internet for their information, and it couldn’t be further from the actual law. It is very dangerous to rely on anything you get out of the internet. It is full of falsehoods, full of blatant fantasies, full of misinformation that gets put forward as actual law. And I have clients that have unfortunately gotten themselves into trouble because they followed what they just read from doing a simple search online. And that’s not going to get you the answers you need. When you need to know a gun law answer, you need to go to a gun law attorney. An attorney that knows and understands the gun laws. Go to my book, go to actual, proven authoritative sources. When you rely on the internet, you are at risk. And it never ceases to amaze me as to the absolute B.S. that gets put out there. And what’s really is sad is when a gun owner relies on it to their detriment. Don’t be that GOFU, folks. Evan Nappen 38:09 This is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens. Speaker 2 38:20 Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state. Page – 12 – of 12 Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S3 E265_Transcript About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets. Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News. As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists. He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America. Email Evan Your Comments and Questions  [email protected] Join Evan’s InnerCircleHere’s your chance to join an elite group of the Savviest gun and knife owners in America.  Membership is totally FREE and Strictly CONFIDENTIAL.  Just enter your email to start receiving insider news, tips, and other valuable membership benefits.   Email (required) *First Name *Select list(s) to subscribe toInnerCircle Membership Yes, I would like to receive emails from Gun Lawyer Podcast. (You can unsubscribe anytime)Constant Contact Use. Please leave this field blank.var ajaxurl = "https://gun.lawyer/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php";

  Episode 264-Just How F’d up is New Jersey Also Available OnSearchable Podcast Transcript Gun Lawyer — Episode 264 Transcript SUMMARY KEYWORDS New Jersey gun laws, Second Amendment, gun ownership, permit system, disqualifiers, red flag laws, extreme risk protection order, duty to warn, sensitive places, gun seizure, gun rights, gun safety, gun legislation, gun advocacy, gun rights groups. SPEAKERS Speaker 1, Teddy Nappen, Evan Nappen, Speaker 2 Evan Nappen 00:15 I’m Evan Nappen. Teddy Nappen 00:17 And I’m Teddy Nappen. Evan Nappen 00:19 And welcome to Gun Lawyer. So, not too long ago, I was on a trip and met some folks, not from New Jersey. They were from part of Free America, so to speak. I might call them Bennies. Well, I’m talking Free America, not even Bennies, but you know, places where they have Constitutional carry and where the Second Amendment is not focused for oppression, but, in fact, focused on trying to maximize and protect Second Amendment rights. And one of the things that was brought up to me by the other folks is, you know, they’ve heard New Jersey is bad on guns, right? The reputation of New Jersey has spread throughout America and actually beyond America, for that matter. And they wanted to know, in so many words, just how effed up is New Jersey. And I decided, you know, not only did I explain to them just how effed up New Jersey is, but I realized that this is something that really needs to be stated and talked about. Evan Nappen 01:48 I wanted to spend this part of the show on that very topic. Just how effed up New Jersey is. I mean, I know we live and deal with the BS of New Jersey and their Second Amendment oppression. And we constantly are talking about the issues that occur. But you know, for those that might not fully understand it or even see the big picture of just how effed up New Jersey is, I want to paint that. I want to lay that out here, and that’s what I’m going to do in the same way as these folks asked me that question. I wanted to fully explain it to them, because they really wanted to know in a more detailed understanding from somebody who has spent their adult life battling New Jersey’s Second Amendment oppression and dealing with the realities of a state that hates guns and hates gun owners. So, that’s the basic starting point. Page – 1 – of 13 Evan Nappen 02:55 But anyway, let’s talk about our issue, though, about guns. So, they hate guns, and they hate gun owners. They’ve done everything in their power to try to continue that hate and make it have force and effect on us. So, how do they do that? Well, first, they establish an attitude and an agenda. So, the attitude and the agenda is to disenfranchise as many people as they can from their gun rights. Set up a system to do that. Steal as many guns from people, as you can, based on any mechanism they can invent to take them. Go after the industry and the folks that are lawful dealers and suppliers. Make and turn gun owners in a projection of being crazy, of being killers, of being individuals that are a detriment and a danger to everyone and society. And so, they put that as their base, and they promote it in every possible way they can. Evan Nappen 02:55 You have to first understand that before you even talk about the specific areas of New Jersey and just how bad they are. You have to understand that there’s a baseline, and the baseline is New Jersey hates guns and New Jersey hates gun owners. And you have to accept that. Now, you may not believe it. You may try to say, no, no. They’re misguided, or they’re well intentioned and all. But, you know, I’ve come to really understand, folks, that that’s not the case. It is hatred based. It is based in hate. And much of the Left’s policies are based in hate. I mean, you see it. They’re hate driven people. I mean, they are. They’re hate driven and we, as conservatives and Republicans, actually try to be love driven, honestly. We try to love freedom and love our fellow humans. Try to love, you know, the unborn, try to love. We try to put out love, and the other side puts out hate primarily. And yet, they try to paint us as the haters, but that’s because they’re experts in projection. Evan Nappen 03:13 So, let’s start by taking a look at the gun laws themselves. The first thing they want to do is create a system where you have the most onerous requirements to even become a gun owner that they can possibly get away with. So, in order to do that, well, we’ll start with having permit and licensing systems. So, you know, we can always, oh, look, having a gun license is reasonable. Having a permit is reasonable. We just want to make sure people that have firearms are safe. And, you know, they sell the standard reasonableness to sell their extremism. Okay, so they do that. New Jersey has a permit system that is outrageous in the questions that it asks, the depths that it will go, and the hoops that individuals must jump through in order to lawfully possess firearms. Now, the amazing thing is, we put up with it, don’t we? We deal with it. We get our Firearms Purchaser ID card. We get a Pistol Purchase Permit for every handgun that we want to buy in New Jersey. We go through it. We actually not only put up with everything to get a carry permit, but we can actually finally get a carry permit. Prior to Bruen, it was virtually unobtainable. Evan Nappen 03:13 But what’s involved in getting those licenses? Well, all of the gun licenses in New Jersey, all of them, the Firearm ID Card, the Permit to Purchase and the Carry Permit, all have a base of disqualifiers under N.J.S. 2C:58-3. These are all the ways that you can be disqualified to being licensed in New Jersey. And the average person might think, oh, they just don’t want convicted felons to have guns, right? Well, of course, New Jersey prohibits felons from having guns, but not just felons. Anyone with domestic violence misdemeanors. So, they expand it to misdemeanors. Then, of course, it’s anybody Page – 2 – of 13 with a conviction from outside of New Jersey, even if it was a misdemeanor, and even if it’s not domestic violence. If it carries over one year jail outside New Jersey, then you’re prohibited in New Jersey, even though you wouldn’t be prohibited under Federal law. And if you’re convicted in New Jersey of any offense that for which was over six months, where you could have received over six months jail, you are per se disqualified. Just like a felon. Evan Nappen 04:05 So, you see, they’ve expanded the reasonable, “reasonable”, violent felon to not having to be a violent felon. Being many things other than what might traditionally be viewed as felons. And that’s just on felons. They also go through your background, and they will see if you’ve ever just simply had arrests. If you’ve been charged, even though it was dismissed. Charged – even though you were found not guilty and acquitted any of the charges. And they’ll look at the charges, you were just charged, even though you were never convicted, never found guilty. As a matter of fact, you were even acquitted. And they will still say, oh, well, you’re disqualified from having a gun license based on Public Health, Safety, and Welfare. So, that’s the all inclusive miscellaneous weasel clause that the issuing authorities get to use, so that they can hang their hat on anything they feel like, basically, and say, oh, you’re not safe to have guns because you had an arrest for some offense that you were acquitted for. But we’ve read the police report about what was alleged, and we don’t care that you were not guilty of it. We’re going to say that that makes you somehow a danger, and we see that all the time. We see the abuse of it. So, much that we have data to show that that very section is abused, even with institutionalized racism. Where blacks are more than two and a half to one to whites denied for that reason, that arbitrary public health safety reason that they can get away with anything that they pull out of their ass to try to claim is a basis to disqualify you. Evan Nappen 09:51 So, that is baked into the cake. And that’s just touching the surface. Because then any mental health commitment at all, even a voluntary one, where you just checked in because you were sad or somebody maybe passed away, or you just had a moment of anxiety, whatever, if you have any kind of mental health commitment. Then they go beyond that even commitment, and say, have you ever been treated or observed by any doctor or psychiatrist for any mental or physical treatment, now that becomes a bar or a potential bar to you exercising your Second Amendment rights. All this is baked into 58-3. This is the standard that applies to all the licenses, and these are just a few of the disqualifiers. If you have a restraining order on you, or have ever had one, then they look and say, oh, well, look, you had unfounded restraining orders. At least the court determined that. But it doesn’t matter. You had this crazy ex-girlfriend at the time that put these on you, and we’re going to say that makes you a danger to Public Health, Safety, and Welfare. So, you get denied for that dismissed TRO. We’ve seen that over and over again. Evan Nappen 11:03 So, you have all these disqualifiers in New Jersey. Are you an unlawful user of any kind of drugs? Even though New Jersey has legalized marijuana, the Feds create a problem that creates a conflict there. And then, New Jersey will sometimes even jump on it weirdly and say, well, yeah, you’re using legal marijuana. New Jersey says it’s legal, but we’ll deny you, because the feds say that you can’t. So we say you can’t, too, even though we say you can in the state. What is that? That’s just insanity. And Page – 3 – of 13 again, we’ve run into that. I mean, it goes to a situation of New Jersey knows no bounds when it comes just to denying you getting your gun license. And so that’s what the foundation for just getting your ability to purchase. Go ahead, Teddy. Teddy Nappen 11:59 I was going to say you called it a long time ago, where you said, like, at this point, just New Jersey can come out and say, you know, death penalty to gun owners. And then, sure enough, they raised the level for them with the assault weapon law. If you’re caught with. Evan Nappen 12:13 Oh, yeah. Teddy Nappen 12:13 Assault firearm in New Jersey, it’s a first degree. So, yeah, they really. Evan Nappen 12:17 We haven’t even, right? Well, we haven’t even gotten to that yet, but at this point, I’m confident eventually they will, because their hatred has no bounds. But now, putting aside just the insanity of being able to get licensed in New Jersey and everything you have to do to get to that and get through all their obstacles that they put in the way, plus paying the fees to do it, plus waiting the exorbitant amount of time it takes to get approved and filling out and doing the application and all the time consuming obstacles they put there. Plus requiring the training and photographs and references and everything they can pile on to discourage you, even with all that, we still in New Jersey plow through it and still get our permits. Still get our guns. Even though so many people have to fight, fight, fight, to make it happen. Evan Nappen 13:18 Then once you have them, now New Jersey’s focus is, how can we steal your guns away and get you disenfranchised. Take away your license. Get you revoked. So, they have a series of legal mechanisms that are set up to do that. They have what’s called Red Flag or called ERPO, Extreme Risk Protection Order where anyone can make a claim that you’re somehow a danger. And then, without you having any say in the matter whatsoever, they take your guns, file this order, and you have to go to court. And then you finally get your due process. Finally, after there’s been no due process for you. You have to fight to get your rights back. And then the battle begins there. They also have Duty to Warn. That’s where if you tell any medical professional, a doctor, a nurse, therapist, anyone, that you in any way want to harm yourself or others. And I mean even as a joke or even as hyperbole. You know, oh man, I could kill that guy, or I’m so mad, I could, you know, harm him, harm myself. Even as a joke. Or, you know, it’s like making a bomb joke at the airport. If you do that, boom, they’re obligated to call the police. Your guns are going to be taken, and you’re going to end up having to fight to get your rights back. Evan Nappen 14:37 Anytime there’s any allegation of domestic violence, no matter how unfounded, it’s baked into the cake. Built right into the form of the Temporary Restraining Order, pre-printed. All the judge has to do is click Page – 4 – of 13 the box and basically write in there the address so that your guns will be seized pursuant to the TRO, and you’re required to surrender them. So, there’s another mechanism. Then they have the other mechanism that I see, and that’s called pulling it out of their ass. Where the police just take all the guns, for a “safe keeping”, without any statutory basis or court order. And we see that happen all the time. So, it’s one thing to get all licensed and get your guns, then we see New Jersey going to take your guns. Evan Nappen 15:18 New Jersey passes all different matrix of laws that you have to follow in order to lawfully keep your guns. So, there are 25 plus different “sensitive places” if you’re going to carry. Requirements on holsters. Requirements to tell the officer that you’re carrying a gun, if you’re carrying a gun (Duty to Disclose). Requirements on the size of the magazine, right? It went from 15, then went to 10. And, you know, they’re deciding how many bullets your life is worth. And making all these things, by the way, felonies. Felony level offenses. So, if you have a mag that holds 11 rounds instead of 10, it’s a fourth degree level felony. You’re looking at a year and a half in State Prison. You lose your gun rights. You become a convicted felon. You not only lose your gun rights for New Jersey, but also for the entire United States because you’re now a convicted felon under New Jersey’s insane gun laws. So, they’ve disenfranchised you nationally, not just state side, of your rights. Evan Nappen 16:20 New Jersey also makes many of these gun offenses incredibly serious. They raised them to levels unheard of – Second Degree. They combine what is minimum mandatory prison sentences so that the judge has no discretion whatsoever. If you’re outside of your lawful ability to possess due to an honest mistake, oh, well, three and a half years minimum mandatory in States Prison for you. Too bad. It doesn’t matter that you have no priors. It doesn’t matter one bit. The judge loses all discretion. It’s required with no way out from under should you become convicted. Then they combine that into the Gun Owner Gulag, where, when you get charged with any of these things, now, the state tries to hold you pending your trial, which can months and months. It could be years. And they’re looking to enhance the Gun Owner Gulag and create presumptions requiring you to remain incarcerated until your trial. Proven guilty of nothing. We deal with these Gulag cases. We’ve discussed them and just how horrible it is in New Jersey. And so, they gulag the gun owners. They want to incarcerate the gun owners. They want to take away their rights. They want to disenfranchise, and they want to steal the firearms. Keep them and forfeit them. They want to turn gun owners into criminals. They want to make them into felons. So, they not only lose their gun rights, but also the right to vote. This is the system that is New Jersey. Evan Nappen 17:50 This is just an overview of just how effed up New Jersey is, and I see it every day in the practice of gun law. You have to be tough, strong and smart to remain a gun owner in New Jersey. You are, frankly, putting yourself at risk being a gun owner in New Jersey to the system trying to destroy you. But those that believe in their self-defense rights, their rights to have a firearm, still exercise it. Despite the hatred that we deal with emanating from New Jersey. Page – 5 – of 13 Evan Nappen 18:36 And now with this election, the hatred is going to continue, and it’s going to get worse, folks. It’s going to get worse. There are bills pending now that went halfway through the legislature, and we expect to see a big fight. If these other bills go through, they’re going to make the Gulag even worse and virtually automatic on every gun owner to be held pending their trial. There are bills there to turn accidental discharge, which is already aggressively enforced under current law, into what will be a per se offense. A felony, per se. With any AD, you’re looking at felony charges and being put in the Gulag, losing your gun rights. New Jersey’s march to insanity. And I still didn’t even touch the Platkin office where they’re civilly going after retail dealers, gun makers, and manufacturers. Trying to litigate them out of existence, trying to find every way to loophole around the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act (PLCAA) designed to try to stop the very thing that New Jersey’s engaging in. The very thing they’re engaging in. They’re trying to litigate them out of existence. Evan Nappen 19:51 It’s on every front that we’re in a fight for our rights, and New Jersey has no respect. It should be the opposite. They should do everything they can to protect, preserve and respect our Second Amendment rights. But no. It is exactly what they’re not doing. This, my friends, is how effed up New Jersey is. It’s just an overview of what Gun Lawyer deals with all the time in the practice of law. And even though I’ve laid this all out, please keep up the fight. Stay strong, stay smart. We’re going to eventually win. The Constitution is on our side. It’s taking time. It’s going to take effort. But we’ve got the tools federally to finally crush New Jersey and what they’ve done to us for decades upon decades. The height of the fight is here and now, but I do believe the future will be tremendously better for us. It will be. But getting there is going to take standing strong. Evan Nappen 21:08 And, of course, one of the ways we do that is by unity. By making sure you’re part of groups that fight for our rights. In unity there is strength. And in New Jersey, the number one gun rights group is the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. They are the official NRA affiliate. They are the state affiliate. They are also the umbrella organization of the gun clubs of New Jersey. They also have individual members of which you need to be one. They’re there on the front lines. They’re there in Trenton, keeping a full-time paid lobbyist there on guard so that we can take action. And even though the odds are against us, we still can win. We still can and will win. Part of that battle is having a great group like Association. So, make sure you belong to ANJRPC.org. They’re also in the courts, litigating, fighting. We’re going to see court cases that the Association is part of finally getting to the stage of tremendous impact by reaching the Supreme Court. I’m confident that we will see that. There are so many cases heading there. The Supreme Court already has picked to hear two more gun cases, and we’re going to see more and more gun cases. It will be through the enforcement of our Second Amendment right that we finally stop what has been an atrocity by the State of New Jersey over a Constitutional right. And it’s through your State Association, the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs, that you can see that happen. (anjrpc.org) Evan Nappen 22:53 And let me also tell you about our good friends at WeShoot. WeShoot is a range in Lakewood. They’re an indoor range. It’s the place where Teddy and I both shoot. They are very dynamic and doing a lot of Page – 6 – of 13 great things. And one of the things I want to point out that they have going on, and you may be very interested in this, is that on November 20, they will be holding the Diversity Shoot. That’s right. A Diversity Shoot that’s with my friend Tony Simon. It’s the 2A4E Diversity Shoot. It is an outreach of true diversity, because the Second Amendment is for everyone. Okay? That’s what 2A4E means. The Second Amendment is for everyone. And so, let me put it this way. Do you have a friend who’s been wanting to try, let’s say shooting, but is full of excuses? Go to Tony Simon, at WeShoot on November 20 for the Diversity Shoot. All are welcome. Tony is just great to be with. He’s very entertaining, and you will see cutting edge technology. There’ll be free pizza and other refreshments there, and it’s an all inclusive day. They provide everything – the range time and targets and rentals and more. I mean, think about it, pizza and shooting. How can it get any better than that? And Tony will be there. So, think about participating in the WeShoot Diversity Shoot. It’s outreach, and it’s critical. Evan Nappen 24:47 Because everybody that overcomes the stereotypical media portrayal of a gun owner, every time we do that, we have another person with a vested interest in our Second Amendment rights and has been able to cut through the media BS narrative about guns. They realize that firearms as a right is there for a reason. It’s there to protect you and protect the ones you love. Those that would find a diversity shoot the most helpful are often those that need the protection the most. So, learn and discover the truth by participating November 20 in the WeShoot Diversity Shoot. Going to the WeShoot range. They have training, a great facility, and they welcome all shooters. They welcome all to exercise your Second Amendment right in New Jersey. So, check them out at weshootusa.com. Evan Nappen 26:08 And speaking of just how effed up New Jersey is, one of the ways to navigate through the treachery that is New Jersey is, with my book, New Jersey Gun Law. It is the Bible of New Jersey gun law. It’s set up purposely to help maintain our ability to be lawful gun owners in the face of New Jersey’s attack and hatred upon us. And I wrote it for just that reason, even though it’s used by state police, judges, lawyers, but thousands of gun owners to stay legal. I explain what you need to know in a question and answer format with over 120 topics. And when you get the book, scan the front cover and make sure you get part of my free subscriber base. You can immediately access the archives that include the 2025 Comprehensive Update, which has full chapters updated, including a bonus chapter on “sensitive places”. I broke out the sensitive places so you know where you can and can’t carry to simplify that matrix for you. To get your copy, go to EvanNappen.com. Evan nappen.com. You’ll see the big orange book. Just click it and buy it. You’ll be glad you did. Hey, Teddy, what do you got for us today in Press Checks? Teddy Nappen 27:44 Well, as you know, Press Checks are always free. And going into what you have talked about, the whole warfare, and I’m calling it warfare, because the left are the party of violence, changed my mind. I’ve seen all this stuff on that, but this seems to be the newest push. I was scrolling through and found this one from, I believe, it was from the Wall Street Journal. “Six Words Every Killer Should Know: ‘I Feared For My Life, Officer.” (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/six-words-every-killer-should- know-i-feared-for-my-life-officer/ar-AA1PnHC0) Okay, first of all, South Park already did this joke. It’s called, he’s coming right for us. Like, secondly. What? And going into this whole article there, this entire Page – 7 – of 13 thing is an anti-stand your ground argument that they go into. Just the utter insanity of actually defending. They find it is shameful. And here I’ll even read it to you. “It’s easier than ever to kill someone in America and get away with it.” Evan Nappen 28:57 Oh, God. Teddy Nappen 28:58 Okay then. In 30 states, it’s often required only to claim you killed someone while protecting yourself or others. Well, I mean, typically people will make that argument if they were trying to protect someone else or yourself, like. Evan Nappen 29:17 Well, that’s because it’s called a lawful use of force. Teddy Nappen 29:21 Oh, my God. Evan Nappen 29:22 Big shock. Teddy Nappen 29:23 Like, that’s how the law works. Evan Nappen 29:25 Yeah. Almost. Teddy Nappen 29:26 Like, yeah, God, these people, and then. Evan Nappen 29:30 They’re conflating the Stand Your Ground and such with. Teddy Nappen 29:36 Correct. Evan Nappen 29:37 Yeah. Teddy Nappen 29:37 Oh, and then they highlight it. While Americans have long been free to use deadly force to defend themselves at home, so-called Stand Your Ground laws in those 30 states extend the legal protections. So, first off, the logical fallacy right here, where they’re trying to equate inside the home versus outside Page – 8 – of 13 the home. You have a right to defend yourself outside your home. It doesn’t stop. Like, what? Is every murderer like, oh, we got to wait till he gets out of the house or he’ll have a good defense. Evan Nappen 30:14 Okay, okay, okay. Let me, I have to clarify this, Teddy. This is really critical for folks. I even have folks that have called me, that have bought into the media narrative on this, which could almost be detrimental to them. Here’s the deal. Castle Doctrine and Stand Your Ground is not the requirement that you must meet in order to be justified in your use of deadly force. All castle doctrine and all stand your ground doctrine, all they have to do with is the duty to retreat. Okay? The duty to retreat. That’s it. The duty to retreat is an exception, an exception now, to your lawful ability to use deadly force. So, in other words, the law lays out your ability to use deadly force. You can use deadly force when there’s a reasonable fear, risk of serious bodily injury, or death to you, and you’re reasonable in that use of force, et cetera. Then the law says, however. However, if you can retreat with complete safety, then you can’t and should not, and you’re not justified in using that force. So, in other words, if you can retreat with complete safety, then you’re not justified in using force. Otherwise, you’re justified in using force. So, castle doctrine says, in your home, you don’t have to retreat. Stand your ground says, if you’re in a place where you lawfully can be, you don’t have to retreat. All it does is remove the duty to retreat. Evan Nappen 32:00 Yet that entire argument about retreat is virtually an argument of silliness. And the reason I say silly is because you have to be able to retreat with complete safety. Tell me how you retreat from a situation where you’re facing serious bodily injury or death with complete safety. Other than, you know, beam me up, Scotty, there’s no complete safety anyway. So, where are they going with it? And as you said, Teddy. You still have a right to use deadly force. The only question is, did you have a duty to retreat? Well, you only have a duty to retreat if you can do so with complete safety. You definitely have no duty to retreat in your home, that’s castle doctrine. And with stand your ground, you have no duty to retreat if you are in a place that you have a right to be. New Jersey does not have “stand your ground”. It does not have that. But even without stand your ground, it doesn’t mean you lose your right to use deadly force. You just can’t use it if you can retreat with complete safety. So, that is the explanation of that. But go ahead, Teddy. I wanted to clarify because we see a lot of confusion. Teddy Nappen 33:17 I find that very important, because, by the way, the article doesn’t even mention that distinction. Evan Nappen 33:23 Right? Why would they do that? Why would they do that? Teddy Nappen 33:27 Hmmm. It goes on. It gets worse, and this is one thing it highlights, which I laughed at. Justifiable homicides by civilians have increased 59% from 2019 through 2024. Evan Nappen 33:43 Well, that’s a good thing. Page – 9 – of 13 Teddy Nappen 33:44 Of city, so let me. Evan Nappen 33:46 That’s a really good thing. Notice that first word, “justifiable” homicide. Well, great. I’m glad they were justified. That meant, if they didn’t have the firearm, they would have been dead, right? They would have faced. Here’s man, yeah, right, come on. Teddy Nappen 34:03 Here’s the reword of it. Lawful individuals defended their home and shot the criminal who was. Evan Nappen 34:12 Precisely, precisely. In other words, there’s been an upkeep of lawful self-defense. God bless. Great. Yeah, hallelujah. As well there should be. I’m glad to see it. Every lawful self-defender being a defender and no longer a victim. Teddy Nappen 34:29 Yeah, and I love. And then, of course, they go with the with more guns in more hands, families are grieving over loved ones lost to quick tempered killings, often involving law-abiding civilians, with no one held accountable. Often, oh, often. Evan Nappen 34:49 Oh, how often. No one held accountable. That’s right. Yeah, because our, you know, the system just ignores dead people all the time. No. What they, what they used to do is ignore victims, okay? And once victims are no longer victims but defenders, they look real close at what defenders do. They look very closely. And if defenders are justified, then that’s what it’s for. That’s what it’s about. That is the proper use of gun violence. That’s where I’m in favor of gun violence when it’s justified by lawful defenders. Bring on the gun violence. Teddy Nappen 35:37 Yeah, and I love how they and I got to meet this guy, the authors, Mark Maremont and Paul Overberg. The story because, you know, they have to cherry pick. That’s the game they always play. The story they chose is the worst example. So, here, in De Leon Springs, Florida, this Edward Druzolowski, 78 years old, is watching football. And his neighbor, a 42 years old, and his son, comes on to his property. He’s cutting branches, and he has a chainsaw in his hand. So, he comes on to the other guy’s property with a chainsaw. Now, bear in mind, the other guy who was named Ford, was screaming profanity, yelling curses at Druzolowski who told him to get off his property. Evan Nappen 36:35 So, wait. You got a crazy guy on meth with a chainsaw? Teddy Nappen 36:42 Correct. Page – 10 – of 13 Evan Nappen 36:43 And he was coming at a guy on his property. Teddy Nappen 36:48 Swearing at him. Evan Nappen 36:49 Didn’t they do like a movie about that? Teddy Nappen 36:51 Yeah. No, yeah. It’s leather face. Like they’re arguing that, I love this guy. Evan Nappen 36:59 So, if you’re attacked by leather face, they think that’s a problem in using deadly force on leather face? Teddy Nappen 37:06 Like I told him to get off my property. He didn’t. That guy was coming, walking at me. He was coming right at me, walking at me with a chainsaw. So, I shot him. Like, oh my god, the level of insanity. And then the judge later dismisses the case in Florida because of the Stand Your Ground laws, citing to such forces reasonably necessary to defend yourself against Mr. Ford’s imminent use of unlawful force. Okay? Charging at a man with a chainsaw. Evan Nappen 37:37 Right. But keep in mind that, being called stand your ground, that itself, though, isn’t really about the Stand Your Ground portion so much. In other words, yeah, he didn’t have a duty to retreat because Florida says you don’t have to retreat if you in a place that you have a right to be. But it’s more than that. He defended himself against a crazed meth guy with a chainsaw, trying to relive, you know, a classic horror movie on it, on this guy’s ass, right? And he’s like, no, and you’re going to tell me, even without stand your ground, how the hell are you going to get away with complete safety from a crazed meth guy with a chainsaw after you? With complete safety? Are you going to turn your back and try to run from that guy? Really? What if you trip? What if you fall? We’re talking in complete safety. Where’s the safety? Not a chance, not a chance. So, I’m glad they looked at it. They’re putting it under this banner of stand your ground, but in reality, what was it? It was justifiable. Because he was justified in using deadly force based on the threat that was coming at the would-be victim. That’s how it works. That’s why. Teddy Nappen 38:59 And it’s one of those that. And then, of course, they have to go with this. And this kind of reminds me, Dad, I believe it was it when you debated, who was it fire, or who was the one guy where? Where the where the lady was like, if two kids came in into your home, Mr. Nappen, and was stealing your food, would you shoot them? Like, no. Are they running away? Are they not threatening me? No, they’re just stealing the food and running away. Well, then I’m not going to shoot them. Page – 11 – of 13 Evan Nappen 39:31 Well, wait, what if it was pork roll? Teddy Nappen 39:33 I know, right? Evan Nappen 39:34 Or Taylor, ham, either one. Teddy Nappen 39:36 Who would eat that? That’s gross. Speaker 1 39:38 Uh, well, like, I hear you. Teddy Nappen 39:44 They have this argument. Like, what if I’m in the 10 items or less line and I have 15 items. And the shopper shoves me in line, shoves me. Can I shoot him? Evan Nappen 39:56 Is there a threat of serious bodily harm? No. Don’t. They don’t reach the standard reason for use of deadly force. Come on, of course not. Teddy Nappen 40:03 Yeah. And that part that they like to hide, does he think? Like, it’s always blood in the streets. They always argue that it’s going to be the wild west. Evan Nappen 40:11 BITS. Blood In The Streets. Bits, always the BITS argument. Bits, bits, bits. Yeah. Well, Teddy the time has come for the segment that everybody wants to know, and that is the GOFU. That’s the Gun Owner Fuck Up. And the GOFUs are mistakes made by real people in real cases that we see. We want you to learn on the cheap, lessons that these folks have learned expensively. So, this is important. This GOFU that I want to talk about here has to do with storing your guns in your own safe. I’ve been seeing a lot of this. A lot of folks out there, you know, have a gun safe, which is good. You have a gun safe, but in your gun safe, you have your guns, your spouse’s guns, your son’s guns, everybody’s guns is all stuffed in the same safe. Well, that means everybody’s accessing everybody else’s guns. And that’s not good. It’s not good legally speaking. Because they can try to allege unlawful acquisition or transfers, especially if anybody there ends up developing an issue that may preclude them. Evan Nappen 41:33 We also run into it where if all the guns are in a safe. If one person in the household has an issue and they want to seize that person’s guns, the safe gets opened by law enforcement. And everybody’s guns are getting seized. Plus, if there’s issues as to even the legality of the safe itself being opened, and one Page – 12 – of 13 of the people in the house consent to it, even though they shouldn’t have, then everybody’s guns get seized and the person. So, there’s a lot of reasons. And the GOFU is, don’t have one safe that has everybody guns in one safe. Everybody should have their own gun safe, their own locked safe. Whatever you’re using that has your own guns in it, do not have a communal gun safe in New Jersey. It is a problem, arguably, under the law as to gun possession. But it also makes you more vulnerable when it comes to New Jersey trying to seize and steal guns from individuals. Have your own gun safe, folks. Don’t commit the GOFU of a communal gun safe. Evan Nappen 42:48 This is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens. Speaker 2 42:59 Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state. Page – 13 – of 13 Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S3 E264_Transcript About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets. Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News. As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists. He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America. Email Evan Your Comments and Questions  [email protected] Join Evan’s InnerCircleHere’s your chance to join an elite group of the Savviest gun and knife owners in America.  Membership is totally FREE and Strictly CONFIDENTIAL.  Just enter your email to start receiving insider news, tips, and other valuable membership benefits.   Email (required) *First Name *Select list(s) to subscribe toInnerCircle Membership Yes, I would like to receive emails from Gun Lawyer Podcast. (You can unsubscribe anytime)Constant Contact Use. Please leave this field blank.var ajaxurl = "https://gun.lawyer/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php";

  Episode 263-The Recipe for Freedom Also Available OnSearchable Podcast Transcript Gun Lawyer — Episode 263 Transcript SUMMARY KEYWORDS Second Amendment, First Amendment, gun rights, UK gun laws, gunpowder recipe, terrorism, extended license, Serious Crime Prevention order, New Jersey gun laws, Black Books, improvised munitions, school shootings, armed teachers, gun control, gun owner rights. SPEAKERS Speaker 1, Speaker 2, Evan Nappen, Teddy Nappen Evan Nappen 00:14 I’m Evan Nappen. Teddy Nappen 00:16 And I’m Teddy Nappen. Evan Nappen 00:17 And welcome to Gun Lawyer. Folks, we need to get back to basics. When I talk about basics, I’m talking about our basic Constitutional rights. It’s really always important to step back and understand that the entire Bill of Rights is what protects us as gun owners. We love and cherish the Second Amendment, but all the Amendments go to work protecting us, and ultimately our gun rights as well. And directly tied in is, of course, our First Amendment rights. Freedom of speech. The ability to communicate, as we do on the show. Fourth Amendment, protecting our property, search and seizure from the Government. Fifth Amendment against self-crimination. Sixth Amendment, for example, right to an attorney. The very thing that Gun Lawyer is about. These are all critical and important. Evan Nappen 01:12 And every time I look and I see other countries that aren’t blessed with a Bill of Rights to the Constitution and you see the abuse that takes place, you just have to point it out. Because we are blessed to live in the United States and to have these rights. And to not only have these rights, but to utilize these rights. So, I just caught a story here that I want to share with you. This is from Bearing Arms, and it is about, the title is “UK Man Arrested for Possessing Gun Powder Recipe”. It’s by Tom Knighton. (https://bearingarms.com/tomknighton/2025/11/04/uk-man-arrested-for-possessing- gunpowder-recipe-n1230487) And you know, this article is based off an article that appeared in the UK Defense Journal by Craig Langford, and it was dated November 2. (https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/leeds-man-jailed-for-possessing-gunpowder-recipe/) Evan Nappen 02:08 Get a load of this, folks. The UK has gone so far out of control when it comes to no even illusion of having the rights that you and I take for granted every day. Here is just a great example of it, and right Page – 1 – of 10from this article. It says a 49 year old man from Leeds has been sentenced to three years and nine months in prison for possessing a handwritten recipe for gun powder. That’s right. Teddy Nappen 02:48 Was his name Guy Fawkes? Evan Nappen 02:51 That’s a good one, Teddy. But it was just a recipe for gun powder, and he was sentenced here, because he’s going to serve an additional four years on extended license. I guess it’s like a probation as well after or parole. I’m not a UK attorney. But then he will be subject to Serious Crime Prevention Order for five years. So, he has this other order hanging over his head as well, along with terrorism notification requirements for 10 years. Because he admitted, this guy, (Paul) Gilleard, admitted to possessing information likely to be useful, useful, to someone committing or preparing an act of terrorism Under Section 58 of the Terrorism Act. The document was discovered at his home during an intelligence-led search by West Yorkshire Police on May 28. Detective Chief Superintendent James Dunkerley, head of Counter Terrorism, in a statement, said officers were concerned to discover a handwritten recipe for black powder during a search of Gilleard’s home in May. A recipe, later verified by experts as potentially viable. Can you believe this, folks? And then the chief added, possessing information about the manufacture of explosives will always raise serious questions. And Gilleard has chosen not to explain or defend the presence of the recipe in his home. Instead, he pleaded guilty to possessing information useful to a person preparing for an act of terrorism. Can you believe this? Evan Nappen 04:49 I mean, look at the lack of rights in the UK. First of all, lack of rights concerning possession of information, folks. We have a First Amendment right. If you want to possess the recipe, the information on how to make gunpowder, you may do so in the U.S. You can go online right now, go to wiki How. It explains in detail how to make gunpowder. You can watch the damn Star Trek episode with Kirk, where he’s fighting that monster and actually makes gunpowder in the episode, remember that one? I mean, come on. The recipe for gunpowder is criminalized by having just the knowledge? It didn’t say he did anything. It didn’t say he was charged with using it or even attempting to use it. Just having the information, folks. Criminalizing information. Evan Nappen 05:51 You may say, well, good thing that can’t happen here. Yet, New Jersey is already doing it. Not to this extreme, but doing it. By banning information that can show, computer information, on how to build a firearm. On how to make or 3D printed gun. The mere possession of that data. So, don’t think it can’t happen here to this extreme. It can. Furthermore, he (Gilleard) is being convicted here. This is right from the article. According to the Chief, because what does it say? Gilleard has chosen not to explain or defend the presence of the recipe. Oh, we have this little thing in America called the Fifth Amendment, a right. You have no obligation to explain crap in America. You don’t have to explain a thing. If you want to have the recipe for gunpowder, you can have the recipe for gunpowder. You don’t have to explain why you have it. Can you imagine this is what these people live under in that police state? It is insane. Page – 2 – of 10Evan Nappen 07:06 And yet we are right on the fringes now of suffering under the same fate. We already see examples of it, just not to this extreme. We’re seeing the weaponization of our justice system against gun owners. We’re seeing the abuses. Let me just tell you, it’s outrageous. But you know, there’s a lot of good reason to have the recipe for gunpowder. Plenty of good reasons. Maybe you want to make your own gunpowder for muzzle loading. So what? Maybe you want to be a prepper? In case this stuff one day hits a fan. Maybe you want to make it. There’s plenty of lawful reasons you may want to make gunpowder. I mean, but you don’t have to have an obligation to explain it. And maybe you don’t want to make it, but you just want to know how, in case you ever do. Imagine that? Or maybe you want it because you want to write a novel, or you want to write a book, or you want to understand the mechanics of it. Who cares? Knowledge is knowledge. It’s one of the things about having that First Amendment. It’s supposed to protect. And you know, there’s a lot of really fascinating information out there that as gun owners and folks that want to protect their rights and want to prep and prepare, there is really a lot of books out there that, essentially, they try to suppress, but they can’t, because we have the First Amendment right. Teddy Nappen 08:38 I will say it, this also kind of reminds me. There was, I think, it was a Supreme Court case where, I think it was a newspaper that put out how to make an atomic bomb. That was their whole and it was a very famous. I’m trying to remember the name, but it was the push where they basically outlined how to do it. And then they went after the newspaper. (https://firstamendment.mtsu.edu/article/united-states-v- progressive-inc-w-d-wis/) And the argument, one of the arguments, was it seemed highly unrealistic for someone to create an atomic bomb. So, I don’t know if they would ever try to use that and say, well, it’s really realistic because it’s super easy. So, I don’t know if that would at least protect or provide some safeguards. Evan Nappen 09:20 The hard part, of course, is getting the uranium. Except, if you remember from Back to the Future, the Libyans, right? The Libyans. Because they had it. But what this is, yeah. So, I mean, the science of building an atomic bomb even is known. It is out there, but, you know, doing it is a whole other thing. And anyway, I’m not even talking about weapons of mass destruction. We’re just talking about good old gunpowder here. Just gunpowder and criminalizing knowledge. Years in prison for simply having the recipe for gunpowder. I mean, that’s just insane, if you think about it. But yet, New Jersey is not that far from that. And that’s the scary part. It really is. I mean, they have, there are laws on the books now in New Jersey that regulate firearm information. Regulate it to the degree of what you can literally have and download and possess in that data form. Now, so far, they haven’t extended it to printed material. And of course, when you have a printed book, it’s not in data form. Now, you can, of course, go online, and you can find all this information online very easily. How to make gunpowder like right there in wiki How. All the steps right in wiki How. Everything you need to know to make gunpowder right there, in easy to read, easy to understand steps. Evan Nappen 10:52 But there were books that have been prevalent out there. Probably some of the best books were the “Improvised Munitions: Black Books”. Now, keep in mind, these books were originally made by the U.S. Page – 3 – of 10Government, the Frankfurt Arsenal. Desert Publications reprinted them, and they put them out. Desert Publications are probably the best versions of the Frankfurt Arsenal Government manuals, and these were “Improvised Munitions: Black Books”. They literally tell you how to make gunpowder, how to make primers, how to make guns, how to make explosives, how to make everything, all that. Everything’s in those books. How to do it, how to do it by improvising to make them. This is U.S. Government material out there because it’s not copyright. It can be reprinted and put out there because the Government doesn’t have a copyright on what they do. And this is information that is and may be of interest to preppers. I mean, if you’ve never looked at the Black Books, they’re really cool. They’re really interesting and fascinating. And they should be. They were designed so that, if our forces were in countries and jurisdictions and such where weapons weren’t readily available, that you could train, you know, the folks fighting with us to fight the enemy and how to make these things. Evan Nappen 12:19 I remember way back in college. When I wrote a column in college, I took a page out of the Black Book that showed how to build. This is way back. We’re talking probably over, well over, 40 years ago now, folks. I took a page out of the Black Book, the arsenal, the Frankfurt Arsenal Black Book, the Government FM right on it that showed how you make a nine millimeter pistol out of a pipe and wood. And it was a Government information on how to do it with illustrations. And we printed it in the college newspaper and wrote the best argument against gun control, because, look, you could always make a gun. And needless to say, that did cause a ruckus that that was printed, but there it is. It’s information. It’s information. Evan Nappen 13:05 And now what’s interesting about that statement that I made as an editorial decades ago in college is actually proving out to be true. Because today, with the advent of all the printing and 3D printing, and do it yourself, and improvised guns that can become just as effective and made as normal guns. The gun rights oppressionists are freaking out because it defeats their plan of disarmament, right, doesn’t it? So, isn’t that what the ultimate idea was, anyway, behind it? So, this is what they’re trying to suppress. They don’t want the ability to have guns. No less guns that can be made by individuals and individuals being able to fend and protect themselves. They want to require that the only gun you can possess is made by a manufacturer in America that they can regulate and control and register and know. But does that really add to our freedom? I don’t think it does. I think the idea of being free is Government not having that control. Not having that knowledge. Not knowing. That’s what becomes a check on the tyranny, and that’s what our Founding Fathers envisioned when they put in our Second Amendment. Evan Nappen 13:24 I mean, look at what’s going on in the UK. Look at not only the crushing of their rights, but the crushing of the soul of their country. Look at what is going on there. You can see what these policies are leading to. It’s leading to a place I wouldn’t want to live in, that’s for sure. And yet, New Jersey isn’t that far behind in reality. So, the fight is on. The fight is on for our rights. But if you want to protect yourself, why not have information that you have, that you want to keep? Just in case. It’s good to have information. Information, knowledge, is power, as they say, and there are a lot of sources and resources out there Page – 4 – of 10for you to have the knowledge. And it’s something that is, in effect, part of our First Amendment rights as well as our Second Amendment rights. Evan Nappen 15:12 And let me tell you about our good friends at WeShoot. WeShoot is a indoor range in Lakewood. It is the range where Teddy and I shoot, and where we get our training. WeShoot is a fantastic place. Make sure you pay it a visit. WeShoot is located in Lakewood, conveniently off the Parkway, right there in Central Jersey. You know, these ranges are our resources. These are great resources. We need a place to shoot. If you don’t have a place to shoot, it is hard to exercise your rights. They are a premier provider of that very resource that we need. They have fantastic bargains and deals, too. They have all the best stuff in their pro shop and the greatest instructors. And I’m not just saying that. I’m a fan and a customer, and so is Teddy. We love it there, and we want to give our highest recommendation to WeShoot. You can check out WeShoot at weshootusa.com. Make sure you pay them a visit. You’ll be glad you did, and they’ll become your new favorite range. I can assure you of that. Evan Nappen 16:22 And we are knee deep in a big fight in New Jersey. Unfortunately, as you know, the Republican Jack Ciattarelli did not succeed in winning. And, of course, that is depressing for us. Because in New Jersey, it means we’re still going to be subject to the oppressionists, to those that have an agenda to oppress our Second Amendment. So, that means we have to fight even harder. That means that we have to be even more vigilant. It is not time to give up. It is time to fight harder, and the way you fight harder is through your State Association, the Association of New Jersey Rifle Pistol Clubs. In unity, there’s strength. The Association is fighting on multiple fronts, not just the political in terms of elections, but also the legal. They’re in the courts challenging the laws as we speak. We are part of a number of lawsuits challenging the ban on assault firearms, on the Carry Killer law and large capacity magazines. There are lawsuits throughout the country. The Association is a part of a number of these critical lawsuits to New Jersey. This is major for us to have this group defending us, and you need to be a part of it. This is how we’re going to see the change. Evan Nappen 17:59 And believe it or not, as depressing as it is that we were not successful in changing the governorship to a governorship of New Jersey that actually supports and defends the Second Amendment, we still are making progress. We’re making progress judicially, and we have the Supreme Court now having taken two cases that will be decided, two, not just one, but two Second Amendment cases, and we’re going to see even more. And these are the groups that are behind these lawsuits to help expand our rights and expand our Second Amendment. So, make sure that you belong to the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs (ANJRPC). Their website is anjrpc.org. You’ll receive their news alerts and email alerts, and you’ll be able to take action and be aware of the shenanigans taking place down in Trenton. Evan Nappen 19:00 I also want to remind you to make sure you own a copy of my book, New Jersey Gun Law. It is the Bible of New Jersey gun law. It’s over 500 pages, with 120 topics, all question and answer. I will be shortly putting out an update, because we’re going to be facing some laws that I expect to proceed. We’ve got a big fight on our hands, and it’s going to be pretty bad if these laws do pass. So, brace Page – 5 – of 10yourselves and make sure you protect yourselves now. New Jersey’s gun laws are an insane matrix of which many traps are out there for law-abiding citizens to be turned into criminals, and you want to learn how to navigate that system. I’ve written this book for you to do that very thing. So, go to EvanNappen.com and get your copy of New Jersey Gun Law. EvanNappen.com. You’ll be glad you did. And when you do, scan the code on the front, and you will get into our free, private subscriber base. You’ll get updates, and you will also be able to access the 2025 Comprehensive Update that includes a standalone chapter on “sensitive places”. Really good stuff, important stuff. So, Teddy, what do you have for us today in Press Checks? Teddy Nappen 20:29 Well, as you know, Press Checks are always free. And look, we had the big election night. Fine. So, I thought maybe a nice palette cleanser would be good. So, I checked out our good buddies at The Trace to see what latest insanity they’re trying to pump out and convince people of. And I found one that I couldn’t, I had to reread the title, because I thought it was, I thought it was a, I thought it was a Babylon B, to be very honest. How do you prepare kids for possible school shooting without traumatizing them? (https://www.thetrace.org/2025/10/school-shooter-drills-trauma-safety/) Yeah, yeah. So, to give you a little bit of, anyone who went to school, you know, the shelter in place. You know, get down and go under the desk. The very classic, you know, move to the corner. They are now looking at trying to find other means without traumatizing the children. This is their focus. And this is an article by Chip Brownlee. Teddy Nappen 21:36 Proponents say the drills teach situational awareness and can save lives. But research is far from clear on whether the drills actually make students safer in a real emergency. Huh? Wonder if there’s other solutions that could be done to help stop school shooters. Hmm. Moving on. What experts seem to all agree upon is the drills have potential to traumatize students rather than empower them, especially when the school uses realistic simulations like fake gunfire or deception. I remember going through school. I didn’t hear my principal firing off a blank gun as he’s wandering through the school, but the utter insanity that these people come up with. They report that active shooter drills can still be especially difficult for students, teachers, and staff who experience violence in the home. Oh, yes, gotta, gotta. That’s the bigger one. You see them writing about that and where we got to deal with. This is their push again. Red flag alert. Red flag alert. This is their violence in the home. They always like to go for that instead of addressing the actual issue, which is, I don’t know, school shootings. Teddy Nappen 23:01 I mean, things like actual security. You mean something like that, like actual security in a school. Imagine that. Imagine having that. Imagine arming the teachers. Teddy Nappen 23:01 But, you know, and as they go in from there, they go through following up messages from texts. About 20% of the students feel the drills made them scared. Thirteen percent feel that they were stressed or anxious. Huh? During an “active school shooting”, they may feel anxious. And this is the one bit that I absolutely, what really takes it away for me. The answer they say, according to, we don’t really know what makes drills effective. They admit it. They have no answer. They try to say like, oh, some schools Page – 6 – of 10say we need to have sit downs. Other wide variety of after schools defined, carry them out. Have communications with this kid. Have simple classroom conversations without addressing the actual school shootings. Throughout the article. I mean. Teddy Nappen 23:56 Yeah. Evan Nappen 23:56 Oh, did you ever talk about arming the teachers, Teddy? Teddy Nappen 23:56 Oh, thank you for bringing that up, because I certainly did. I actually wrote a paper in my high school, and my teacher was aghast at the very idea of me suggesting he be armed during an active school shooting. Evan Nappen 24:36 How dare you suggest that a teacher be armed? Teddy Nappen 24:39 Yeah, it’s one of those where I’m very much disgusted. And funny enough, I even found this from “Get Safe and Sound.com”. The armed guards and school statistics, which, by the way, in 2023 at least 60% of them have one security staff and one armed officer. And for high schools, it’s 82.1% have at least one or more armed security on their campuses. So, very clearly, there is a push for armed security, actual solutions. But I will give Texas credit. This comes from the Texas Tribune. (https://www.texastribune.org/2022/06/07/texas-school-marshal-program/) The Texas Republicans want to arm school teachers, and they actually created what’s called the School Marshal Program to allow educators to carry weapons inside. This is the heart of the issue, and this actually addresses the facts. Unfortunately, only a certain amount of districts actually wanted to participate in the program where they broke down the numbers. It was just only 84 of their school districts out of the 1200 opted into the program, and there’s only 361 actually became licensed under the program, versus the 9000 on campuses. So, this is the bigger issue. There needs to be a culture of arming yourself to defend. You need, the teachers need to see this as like, let me be there to defend my school. Defend the children. Actually willing and there. And it’s that culture that in our country where guns are part of our culture, that’s a fact of life. They need to realize that. Instead of just being the victim and running potential stressful drills, in their view, actually arming themselves to defend their workplace and defend the kids. So, it’s quite disgusting. Evan Nappen 26:35 And all this can somehow get traced to a story by a single author, huh? Way back. Who was it, Teddy, that helped inspire, who helped inspire these school shooters? Who was the number one inspiration? Teddy Nappen 26:56 Oh, that’s very simple. Stephen King, of course. Page – 7 – of 10Evan Nappen 26:59 Stephen King. Teddy Nappen 27:00 Rage by Stephen King. Evan Nappen 27:01 Rage. Yeah. His book, Rage. Teddy Nappen 27:04 Yeah, which he’s already crashing out online after all the other insane. Evan Nappen 27:08 Now, when he wrote Rage, he had a different name, right? What was his name? Teddy Nappen 27:11 Oh, yeah. I forget the name, but. Evan Nappen 27:13 Bachmann. Teddy Nappen 27:14 Something like that. Bachman, or something. Evan Nappen 27:16 Richard Bachman. Teddy Nappen 27:17 Yeah. He was just. Yeah, he’s like, he knew what he was writing. But of course, he tried to hide it. And by the way, he pulled that book off of the shelves after admitting it has nothing to do with school shootings. Even though he pulled it off the shelves. So Speaker 1 27:20 But yet, how many of these school shooters have been found with that book, Rage? Teddy Nappen 27:38 I remember a good chunk of them. We could pull back the article when we first talked about it, but this is the other part I will address. And you know, this is catching on because, of course, now Every Town jumped on it. Every Town Research. (https://everytownresearch.org/report/arming-teachers-risks/) Arming the teachers introduces new risk into schools. Where they list off their reasonings. Teachers cannot and should not be expected to perform their job as a trained law enforcement officer. Okay, first off, the police are doing, what? Shooting about 50 rounds for their qualifications? Are you? Yeah, that, that training. You mean if teachers can’t go to the range and do 50 rounds. Page – 8 – of 10Evan Nappen 28:21 Or just being taught. Hey, this is very important training for this particular situation. They don’t have to go out and be law enforcement officers, which can require training in many different areas. They just need to be trained for this one scenario and how to deal with it. And you know that’s the problem here with The Trace and with the anti-Second Amendment crowd, is that they constantly reject actual solutions to push their agenda. No matter what. So, they can’t say ever that having a gun would actually be helpful. Can’t ever say that. Can’t ever admit that. Nope, nope, nope. Do every kind of song and dance and work around they possibly can come up with to ever say that actually having a firearm was a good idea. They never do that. Evan Nappen 29:18 So, this is why you see these false arguments come out of them. These, these laughable statements come out of them when the reality of what is demanded in the face of violence is violence. They want to call it “gun violence” as a pejorative, but guns themselves are not violent. It is people who are violent, and violence can be good and violence can be bad. The way you stop bad violence is with good violence, and that’s a reality of a violent world, okay? There’s good and there’s bad, and if you refuse to acknowledge it, if you refuse to admit it, then what you end up with is good people suffering instead of being protected. And that’s what we see happening, and that’s what they help to continue. They continue with their lies that end up costing people lives, because real solutions then don’t get implemented. And that’s the real shame of it. Because they just politicize it. Teddy Nappen 30:30 And to really dive it into the politics of it, the American Federation of Teachers and the National Education Association, the teachers unions, they are the ones who are pushing back and saying, don’t arm them. So, you see the culture right there. It’s the elitist of the unions, all the heads of the administrators, these ones, because they know they want to keep having mass shootings, because that’s their blood dance. That’s the only way they will ever win. They ever push for gun control is they want more mass shootings. And that’s a fact. Evan Nappen 31:04 It kind of seems that they do. They look forward to it for political because they want, you know, they want nothing more than to have some other rallying point at whatever the cost may be. It’s pretty disgusting. All it takes is any act that becomes newsworthy, and within seconds, they’re blaming guns. Even if guns aren’t involved, they’re blaming guns. They just jump on it any chance they get. Everything is just a political vehicle to try to oppress our rights, and we have to stand up and say, you’re wrong. And that’s why we’re here doing this very podcast. One of the other reasons we’re doing this podcast is because we like to talk about the GOFU, which is the Gun Owner Fuck Up. GOFUs are expensive lessons that individuals learn, that you can now learn for the cheap. You get to learn them for free because you’re listening to Gun Lawyer. So, Teddy, what is this week’s GOFU? You know what the GOFU is. What is it? Teddy Nappen 32:26 The GOFU is about. Page – 9 – of 10Evan Nappen 32:33 When individuals fill out applications and what happens? Teddy Nappen 32:40 Oh, yeah, it’s falsifications. Yeah, that’s always the big issue for people. Don’t ever falsify on the form. Evan Nappen 32:50 We run into this in practice often, and it’s something that we just want to make sure our listeners are really aware of. When you fill out a gun application, make sure your answers are accurate and true. Don’t just guess. Because falsification of the application, if you put the wrong answer, even though it wasn’t intentional, even though it wasn’t intentional, will lead to your license being denied, and you are exposed to criminal charges of falsification, a third degree crime in New Jersey, up to five years in State Prison. Take this application process seriously, and make sure your answers are absolutely correct. If you have questions about a certain question, find out in advance how it needs to be properly answered. We get falsification issues all the time coming into the office where individuals just innocently make a mistake. They thought this. They didn’t understand the question, and it is extremely unforgiving in New Jersey. Please be extra careful. Don’t become a GOFU when you’re filling out your gun applications. If you have any issues or questions, get them positively answered in advance. We can’t emphasize that enough, folks. Evan Nappen 34:35 This is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens. Speaker 2 34:47 Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state. Page – 10 – of 10 Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S3 E263_Transcript About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets. Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News. As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists. He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America. Email Evan Your Comments and Questions  [email protected] Join Evan’s InnerCircleHere’s your chance to join an elite group of the Savviest gun and knife owners in America.  Membership is totally FREE and Strictly CONFIDENTIAL.  Just enter your email to start receiving insider news, tips, and other valuable membership benefits.   Email (required) *First Name *Select list(s) to subscribe toInnerCircle Membership Yes, I would like to receive emails from Gun Lawyer Podcast. (You can unsubscribe anytime)Constant Contact Use. Please leave this field blank.var ajaxurl = "https://gun.lawyer/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php";

  Episode 262-The Ballot is Stronger than the Bullet Also Available OnSearchable Podcast Transcript Gun Lawyer — Episode 262 Transcript SUMMARY KEYWORDS New Jersey governor’s race, Second Amendment, gun rights, voting importance, anti-gun organizations, NRA rating, gun laws, self-defense, AI security issues, Glock discontinuation, firearm safety, gun ownership, election integrity, gun rights advocacy, firearm legislation. SPEAKERS Evan Nappen, Teddy Nappen, Speaker 2 Evan Nappen 00:16 I’m Evan Nappen. Teddy Nappen 00:18 And I’m Teddy Nappen. Evan Nappen 00:20 And welcome to Gun Lawyer. Well, I’m happy to be back. Teddy Nappen 00:26 You’re alive. Evan Nappen 00:27 I’m alive. I had a nice getaway to Italy and other countries in the Mediterranean where I was able to walk where the ancients walked and enjoy that, that area. Man, I’ll tell you one thing they got right there is espresso. Oh, boy! Do they have espresso down right. I love that. But anyway, I also came back with a little cold, as you can tell. So, I’m gonna be talking a little bit funny today. Teddy Nappen 01:05 Apparelty, you smoked too many Cuban cigars. Evan Nappen 01:12 Well, gotta do what you gotta do. Luckily, it didn’t happen till I got back. So, yeah, we did go up to Mount Aetna there, and both the mountain and I were smoking. That was pretty good. You know, there’s a very interesting and mind expanding things that I’ll be talking about on the show, particularly regarding weapons and things happening from the ancients that apply to today. And I’m sure we’ll get into some of those things in later shows. But today, it’s very important, because the ballot is stronger than the bullet. And do you know who said that? I’ll tell you who said that. Abraham Lincoln said the ballot is stronger than the bullet, and he’s right, it is. We are now dealing with that very scenario in New Jersey, because we have this critical Governor’s race taking place between (Jack) Ciattarelli (R) and Page – 1 – of 10(Mikie) Sherril (D). And it couldn’t be any starker in the differences when it comes to the Second Amendment. Evan Nappen 01:12 Yeah, that didn’t help. That didn’t help. But hey. Teddy Nappen 01:14 Too many Cuban cigars. Evan Nappen 02:36 The Democrat, Sherrill, not surprisingly, is, of course, a Second Amendment oppressionist. You know, looking to oppress our rights to continue in the Murphy tradition of Second Amendment oppression. And on the other side, we have Ciattarelli, who is a strong supporter of the Second Amendment. We can see a night and day difference. So, in case you didn’t know, it is critical to get out and vote. Please make sure that you vote. I know you hear it all the time and maybe get sick of hearing it. But I cannot emphasize how important this opportunity is. We now have a chance to turn New Jersey around. We’ve been suffering oppression under Murphy for years and now is an opportunity to turn that around. And let me tell you, we have a great shot at doing it. Evan Nappen 03:46 First of all, you need to know that Sherril, the Democrat, has been endorsed by every major anti-gun, you know, gun rights oppression organization, including Every Town for Gun Safety. Yeah, right. Moms Demand Action, Giffords pack, and the Brady pack, just to name some of the folks that are backing her candidacy. And that should tell you just about everything you need to know. She’s come out and made statements about folks carrying firearms. Finding it unconscionable in terms of untrained and unchecked individuals carrying. Well, that is hardly what New Jersey is. As a matter of fact, it’s the opposite. They are thoroughly and completely vetted and trained. In which, in order to even get a permit to carry, you have to pass CCARE and prove your proficiency and training along with knowledge of use of force. All of the above. So, she has no clue other than following the oppressionists’ agenda, and she has, not surprisingly, earned an “F” rating from the NRA Political Victory Fund. And NRA has declared her a gun ban extremist. Evan Nappen 05:33 And on the other side of the coin, we have Jack (Ciattarelli), generally, who is the opposite. And remember, it’s not just his position as Governor, but he also then can have his Attorney General. And we can get rid of Platkin and his crew of gun rights oppressionists that focus on litigating firearms out of existence and pursuing every cockamamie scheme they can come up with to try to limit our Constitutional rights. This is critical. You know, about four years ago or so, when Ciattarelli ran, he only lost by about 84,000 votes, and he is coming on strong now. He has tremendous momentum, and I believe that the gun rights issue will be one of the major things that can help put him over the top. If gun owners would not be apathetic and actually get their asses out and vote, we can help to take our rights back. It is critical. Please, please, please. Make sure that you do your part. This is an opportunity. How many times do I hear gun owners say to me, what can I do to help? What can I do to fight? What can I do? What can I do? What can I do, like that? That’s a good sentiment to want to know what you can do. Page – 2 – of 10Well, I’m telling you right now something you can do. You can vote. You can vote the good guys in. Exercise that precious right to vote. Evan Nappen 07:37 And look, folks, the Republicans have come a long way. With the fantastic leadership by President Trump and with the fantastic work done to try to preserve voter integrity, to stop the steal, to stop the fraud, President Trump was successful and probably the ultimate comeback politically of anyone ever in the history of the world. I mean, it’s just amazing what that man overcame. But he didn’t do it alone. He did it by focusing on where the problems were, and part of those problems was in our election itself. And we are now going to have monitors from the Justice Department trying to make sure this election is as free from fraud as possible, and the Republicans have a keen understanding of the games that Democrats play. So, this is where your vote not only matters but can really count. It can really count. This is going to be critical, and the statement it will make when Ciattarelli wins will be beyond New Jersey. It will also show that the Democrat Party is in its death throes, that their progressive liberal insanity is finally being recognized by folks, even in so-called Blue States, like New Jersey. And not being accepted. Being rejected, straight out. It is critical in both the big picture and in the small picture. Evan Nappen 09:37 And in the picture related to what happens in New Jersey. Because, folks, there are bills pending right now that have gone halfway through, halfway through, that will be devastating to our Second Amendment rights. There are so many of these horrible laws that need to be repealed. Laws that are so extreme which we’ve discussed on this show. We have to make it happen. This is that golden opportunity. And just think of how amazing it will be to have at the same time, a Republican President and a Republican Governor that are both dedicated to defending, not oppressing, our Second Amendment rights. So, please do your part. Teddy Nappen 10:35 One other thing I would highlight for that is that not just what the Governor can do, but a Governor can appoint people. You know, like Murphy appointed Platkin. The attack dog who’s been weaponizing his position to attack our rights. Going after gun shops. Going after gun companies. They’ve been going after everything they can. Where you are the top cop in that position. So, if Jack (Ciattarelli) gets in, we’ll get someone who is not a Platkin and won’t be the attacker on our rights. Evan Nappen 11:16 And actually, you’re right, Teddy. And not only that, the Attorney General can then promulgate Attorney General Opinions and other legal decrees that are within their power to expand our rights, to clarify limitations, and to advise law enforcement throughout New Jersey about how they need to treat our rights and permitting and all these issues that we’re fighting now. It will open up that area greatly. This is a tremendous opportunity here, and it’s one of the blessings of living in a republic. We get this right to vote. So, don’t ignore it. The ballot is more powerful than the bullet, and with the ballot, we can increase the power behind our bullets. In other words, our ability to exercise our rights. So, it’s critical, folks. Critical, critical, critical. Evan Nappen 12:34 Page – 3 – of 10Hey, I also want to mention an interesting little news bit that you may not have heard. This is from UW news. More U.S. adults are carrying loaded handguns daily. (https://www.washington.edu/news/2022/11/16/more-u-s-adults-carrying-loaded-handguns-daily-study- finds/) There you go. And that’s not a surprise, I’m sure, to most of us. But the numbers are kind of cool from this article, and I just wanted to share them with you. The number of U.S. adult handgun owners carrying loaded handguns doubled from 2015 to 2019. Now that’s just to 2019. I bet it’s more than doubled yet again. But even then, it doubled. This was based on the National Firearm Survey (NFS) of U.S. adults. And looking at their surveys, they found that from 2015 that it’s up 9 million and 6 million carry every day, twice as many as carried in 2015. This is really great news, because the more folks out there are carrying, the safer we are. And they’re, of course, saying that less restrictive carrying regulations. Yeah, we have the tremendous growth of “shall issue” permits. We have the Bruen decision now, and we have Constitutional carry. Evan Nappen 14:11 We have actually crime that is been gone crazy in the cities that gets folks wanting to protect themselves. It actually, in these hot spots, because of how the news plays up the crime in the hot spots, right? Because, you know, blood always sells in the news media. It actually also is encouraging to get people to want to defend themselves and have the means to do so. Some of the other findings in the report that are interesting is apparently seven in 10 handgun owners say they carry a loaded handgun as protection against another person. Dwarfing the number who said they carry for protection against an animal or for work. Yep, so, the overwhelming majority of carry, seven out of 10, is for self-defense against bad guys. Now, why should we even be shocked by that? I’m not. Of course it is. That’s why good guys have got to carry. I mean, come on. They also found that four in five handgun owners who reported carrying were male, three in four were white, and the majority were between 18 and 44. Now, gee, white and male. That’s interesting. Why are they? Why are they checking into that? Evan Nappen 15:54 Well, you know, if you look deeper behind their approach of trying to make it out that it’s some kind of white supremacy thing, which is, of course, the undercurrent to that little stat. The reality of it is that the institutionalized racism that’s present is a discouragement to blacks from carrying. That’s the reason. And we need to address that, because the more folks that carry, the better. Any law-abiding citizen, responsible, law-abiding citizen that carries makes you and me both safer. So, I think we’ll see even way bigger numbers if we had more up-to-date studies than going back to 2019. But that itself shows you that the trend is going in the right way. It’s going in the direction. Teddy Nappen 16:50 You also gotta look at the factor of Covid. As the 2019. Evan Nappen 16:56 Yeah. Teddy Nappen 16:56 Page – 4 – of 10Where everyone gets locked up and, you know, everyone can’t go outside. You want to defend your home and need something to carry. I need something to defend myself. So, that’s another one that blew up in the Left’s face. Evan Nappen 17:12 And it did. It did blow up, and it’s continuing to. As a matter of fact, though, there’s, you know, things coming up with technology. We’re talking about AI, and we’re talking about other impacts. Well, I just want to point this little story out here that I saw. This is from Cam Edwards at BearingArms. “What happens when AI thinks a bag of chips is a gun?” (https://bearingarms.com/camedwards/2025/10/27/what-happens-when-ai-bag-chips-a-gun-n1230388) How about that, folks? When a bag of chips is a gun. That’s right. Because that’s what happened to Taki Allen, who was hanging out with his friends after football practice at Kenwood High School in Baltimore County. Police rolled up and confronted him at gunpoint about a pistol they thought he was carrying. He was placed in handcuffs and searched, but no gun was found. Instead, what he had was a bag of Doritos that he was holding and that triggered a weapons alert by the AI powered security system. How nice. So, apparently he was just holding a bag of Doritos, and AI registered it as a gun. I don’t think they have the firearm-seasoned Doritos yet. It’s just a situation where you have this incredible reaction. Luckily, no one was hurt, but you can well see nervous law enforcement drawing a gun down on this kid. I’m glad law enforcement didn’t mistake his bag of Doritos for a firearm. So, keep in mind that these AI systems are going to be emplaced in other areas, and I’m sure we’re going to see growth of that. We’re probably going to see more and more of the problems, the glitches from these systems that are going to lead to folks getting injured and of unreasonable searches and seizures taking place. I can well see that in the future. So, we better be aware of it. But next time with your bag of Doritos, beware that you may be triggering AI into thinking you’re going to do harm with a firearm. How crazy is that? Evan Nappen 19:58 Hey, I want to tell you about our good friends at WeShoot. WeShoot is a range, an indoor range, in Lakewood where Teddy and I both shoot. We get our training there. We love WeShoot, and so will you. WeShoot has some pretty cool stuff they’re talking about and that they’re offering. You can go check out at the WeShoot pro-shop. One is the Walther PDP Pro-X and that’s their newest evolution in Walther performance. With a full-size feel, a top-tier trigger and modular features for serious shooters. Then you have the Tavor X95. We love the Tavor X95. We call it the Hebrew hammer, right? It’s a compact bull pup, chambered in 5.56, built for CQP power with Israeli military roots, and it has that wonderful futuristic function. Then you have the classic Smith & Wesson Model 36. That’s the good ol’e snub nose .38 special in the classic Model 36. The old J-frame that we love. We call it our pocket rocket. They have a nice Model 36 there for you to check out, made by Smith, just a great classic gun. You can also get your training at WeShoot. You can get your certifications, and you have a great range to practice. Go right there to WeShoot in Lakewood. Check out their website at weshootusa.com. They have beautiful photography, and they’re just wonderful place. You will love it. They’re a great resource for New Jersey gun owners right there, conveniently off the Parkway in Lakewood, New Jersey. Evan Nappen 22:07 Page – 5 – of 10Let me also mention our good friends at the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs, anjrpc.org. ANJRPC has been hard at work fighting for our rights. They’re in the courts as we speak. They’re standing guard in the legislature with a full-time paid lobbyist. They are fighting as well. Getting the word out about voting. We have to do it. We’ve got to get out there and vote. The Association is there serving you as New Jerseyans, protecting our rights. You need to be a member of the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. They’ll send you out great emails about alerts with easy steps you can take to make a difference. But they also send you a wonderful printed newsletter, greatest newsletter out there in the state. They’re the NRA affiliate, official state affiliate, and the largest pro-gun group in New Jersey, pro- Second Amendment rights. So, make sure you join. Go to anjrpc.org and join today. You’ll be glad you did. Evan Nappen 23:30 And let me also not forget to shamelessly promote my book, New Jersey Gun Law. It is the Bible of Jersey gun law. It’s over 500 pages with 120 topics, in a question-and-answer format. It’s used every day by hundreds and hundreds of folks. It will help you to keep your guns, keep your gun rights and stay out of jail. New Jersey, as you know, is insane, and I try to make the insanity somewhat understandable. So, you can stay within the crazy matrix of New Jersey’s gun laws and not fall into the traps. Not be a GOFU. So, make sure you get a copy of my book and scan the front cover for the QR right there, so you can get the free updates. The Comprehensive 2025 Update is there waiting for you, including a standalone chapter of where you can and cannot carry under New Jersey’s Carry Killer bill. What’s valid and what isn’t at the moment. So, get yourself a copy today. Go to EvanNappen.com, EvanNappen.com, and make sure you own the big orange book. So, Teddy, what do you have for us today? Teddy Nappen 24:55 Well, as we know, Press Checks are always free and. And I wanted to. One of the big things that kind of was circulating, if everyone’s been paying attention, about what’s been going on with Glock as California issued their ban. And this comes from BearingArms, our friends at BearingArms, from Cam Edwards. Gun World is buzzing as Glocks decision to discontinue dozens of its models. (https://bearingarms.com/camedwards/2025/10/21/gun-world-buzzing-glock-discontinue-dozens- models-n1230326) It has been kind of the big shake up. Evan Nappen 25:28 They basically got rid of their entire line, except for the slim compacts like the 43 and those guns. So, they’re no longer going to produce all those Glocks, and they’re coming out with what, the new V series? Teddy Nappen 25:45 Correct. This was given to them by one of the several Glock distributors began reporting on Monday afternoon that the company will stop shipping all Gen 3s, Gen 5s, and Gen 5 MOS models as of November 30, and we’ll be rolling out the new V series December of this year. This is from a video of GlockShop’s (Lenny) McGill. Evan Nappen 26:12 Page – 6 – of 10Oh yeah. Lenny McGill. Well, you know, the Glock has been such a favorite and so reliable a firearm. It’s like the number one, probably the number one handgun in America at the moment. Teddy Nappen 26:26 Mitch Rapp would agree. Evan Nappen 26:28 Hmm, I’m sure he would. I know that there’s, like, I always say about a Glock. There’s a really good and really bad thing about a Glock. What’s really good about a Glock is, when you pull the trigger, it goes bang. What’s really bad about a Glock is, when you pull the trigger it goes bang. In other words, there’s no manual safeties on it, okay? So, your safety is in between your ears. Glock is super reliable, but make sure you’re always very conscientious about your trigger and following all the rules of safety when it comes to a Glock. They’re great guns, but there’s no mechanical safeties that are going to come to your aid if you get stupid. So, be cautious with Glocks at all times. But I love them. Teddy Nappen 27:28 Yeah, and I will note from the article, the company has not shown any ties to the anti-gun efforts to their change of the of their line up with the new models. But the timing and their response is very suspect of that, and they highlight the issue. Growing use of illegal switches that convert semi-automatic pistols into machine guns. Oh, but it seems like that’s kind of their response and. Evan Nappen 28:01 Well, wait, let’s talk about those. So, those are the Glock switches, and they’re able to be very easily printed with 3d printers for less than a buck, I guess, in materials. And they’ll go on the back of the Glock. They’ll slide in, and then you can switch a semi-auto Glock so that it’ll go full auto. And that’s what these Glock switches do. And they’re out there because they’re so easy to make and so plentiful. Apparently, the understanding we have is that the V series will not be able to be converted with a Glock switch. Now, I don’t have more technical information than that. Maybe they’re just going to go with like a pro-trigger or something. But normally, the way these things go is any technological change that gets made, then somebody invents a technological way around it. So, I don’t know. But for now, the idea, I’m sure, is to undercut this litigation and legislation as part of the announcement of their new line. Now this new line may also have things like MOS on all the models as a standard feature. Who knows what other things it may have. It may be enhancements that may make it better, but then again, maybe not. We’ve seen that before, Teddy, where manufacturers have changed their model guns and the old models become much more desirable than the new models. I’m not saying that’s going to happen here, for sure, but we’ve seen it before. Teddy Nappen 29:48 Correct. And that’s one of my points I always try to make when it comes to the Press Checks. I find the best way to look at things is to look as you can see, they always try to push this in the guise of “safety”. And one of the things that we want to highlight is from for the 1911 Series 70 vs the Series 80. This comes from PewPew Tactical. (https://www.pewpewtactical.com/1911-series-70-series-80/) The giant change that they did. Page – 7 – of 10Evan Nappen 30:19 Well, yeah. Well, you see, there is a more of a desirability, arguably, for Series 70 Colt 1911s versus Series 80. Because with the 80s, they added a firing pin safety, and they added some changes to the bushing and what have you. I mean, the Series 80 is still a damn good gun, but there became a preference and kind of an added, a value added, if you had a Series 70. Still is to this day. A Series 70 is more sought after, arguably. The triggers on a Series 70 were much better because of the design on the Series 80 to increase, to add in that safety. There’s a little more, not as crisp, etc. Now, you know, I’m sure with a lot of great gunsmithing, you can get that Series 80 to be real nice, but the Series 70, plainly has certain things that make it a preference. However, if you have your hammer down on a firing pin on a Series 70and there’s ammo there, that pin is actually going to push against the primer. So, it doesn’t have that firing pin safety. And that’s what the Series 80 did. Because, you know, the idea behind the 1911 is you’re going to carry it cocked and locked. So, the hammer is cocked and then the safety goes up to lock it. And then on your Series 70, you have two safeties, basically that are mechanical. You have your thumb safety, and then you have your grip safety. So, you actually have two mechanical safeties. You’ve got to be gripping it properly, and then click down the thumb safety. But if you have a round in the chamber and the hammer is down and you don’t have it cocked and locked, then arguably, there could be some issue there. It’s not a smart way to be carrying a firearm that is a single action, automatic, semi automatic pistol, single action. That’s what your 1911 is. But folks love the Series 70. So, there was a more of a desire to have the Series 70. You see, the same thing with Winchesters, with pre-’64 Winchesters. Particularly the Model 70s, right? I mean, you know, Teddy, about how. Teddy Nappen 32:58 Yeah, in comparison. Winchesters prior were more handmade under the Japanese firearm company to change the manufacturing and more to the factory style that of the Japanese. Evan Nappen 33:20 I mean, the Winchesters are all good. But the preference, again, became for the firearm that had more hand work and had some differences in extractor and what have you. So that the premier became the so-called Pre ’64 Winchesters. It had value added on your Model 70 and other firearms made by Winchester. So, that’s something that became looked for. Then you see it again with Smith & Wesson, right? Like we see with Smith. The Hillary hole. So, after that Rose Garden ceremony and they put that internal lock in the Smith & Wessons, people were not necessarily thrilled about that internal lock, and there were even reports of issues with it. As soon as you add in these things, you make a gun less simple, and the more complex it is, the more likelihood you could have an issue that you don’t want. So, the new Smiths became less preferred than the old Smiths, and that’s still a thing. But nowadays you can even get the Smiths without the Hillary hole. They’ll offer many of their revolvers because people just don’t want that internal locking device in their guns. Teddy Nappen 34:41 Yeah, I would say that’s the better comparison, is that to the what’s going on with Glock and the Hillary hole, because that all came out of the creation over the whole deal with Columbine. And it was cowtowing, which, again, you never appease crocodiles, and this is trying to combat the “safety issues of firearms”. Page – 8 – of 10Evan Nappen 35:08 Oh, yeah, that was the famous Rose Garden ceremony with Smith. And then, as a matter of fact, there was a reaction by gun owners, in effect, not to even buy Smith & Wessons after that. People were so disgusted with them giving in to the Clinton, to the Clinton Gambit, and their sales took a hit. It was viewed at that time as somewhat of a sellout. Now, I’m not saying Glock is selling out. Okay? There are realities here of the litigation and the laws that will affect their ability on selling the guns, whether, you know, those fights can be won down the road or not. When, if they just reinvigorate their line and they don’t take away the reliability aspect that we all know and love about Glocks, maybe it will be okay. But Smith & Wesson is an example with what not to do, that’s for damn sure. What not to do with them. And you still see premier and premiums for the old Marlins, right? JM stamped Marlins get a premium over the other Marlins. And I know Ruger now makes Marlins, and they make a damn good product. I’m not saying anything else, but there’s still that premium, that desire for the old ones. Evan Nappen 36:36 So, we may see that all these pre V model Glocks, pre V models, may themselves have a premium. And although we see Glocks as plentiful, that may not end up being the case with the V models. It may go the route of the Series 70 versus Series 80. It may go the route of the Smith Hillary hole versus not, the pre 64 Winchester. So look, if you have a Glock, I would say the old models, hold on to it for now. Hold on to it because you may see that there’s a premium to the older generation Glocks. It may very well happen. We don’t know. Because the new Glocks haven’t come out. And if they do come out and then there’s issues people are reporting, which could happen, particularly with new models, then there’ll be a really big demand for the older models. And even if there is no issue, there’ll still be that desire, if for no other reason than you want to have a Glock that, you know, they wanted you not to have. Even though you have no intention of ever putting a Glock switch on it. There’s still the factor that you now have a Glock that ended up being forced into model changes, and you have the old Model. Evan Nappen 36:48 We’ve seen that happen any number of times. We saw things change, like, for example, with the old Mac 10 semi-automatic pistol. Right? The Mac 10, now Macs, of course, are assault firearms, boogie men under New Jersey law. But back when the original Mac came out, it fired from an open bolt, and it was semi-auto. And then they said, oh, no, you can’t have open bolt semi-autos. It’s got to fire from the closed bolt because it could get too easily converted. But the open bolts are still legal, and of course, there’s a premium if you have an open bolt Mac. You see this repeated so many times through the firearm industry, where the old models have an added value and more desirability. Now, whether or not that’ll happen with Glock remains to be seen, but I wouldn’t be surprised if we see it, just given the history of so many other guns and how that very thing has happened. Evan Nappen 39:07 Hey, let me tell you about this week’s GOFU, which is the Gun Owner Fuck Up. And the reason we talk about GOFUs is because it’s actual cases of people making mistakes. They can be very expensive, costly. Cost your freedom, cost your rights, and you don’t want to be a GOFU. So, we like to talk about them. So, this week’s GOFU has to do with the firearm that you carry. It may seem basic, but I need to say it. Make sure the gun that you carry is your firearm, your gun. Don’t go and register your spouse’s Page – 9 – of 10gun. When I say “register”, I mean list it on your carry permit as your carry gun. When it’s not your gun, don’t do that. Okay? Because it’s a firearm that is somebody else’s. Why are you even handling it? How can you have been transferred it lawfully? It raises all kinds of questions and all kinds of problems. So, make sure the guns that you list on your carry permit are actually your firearms. Don’t be a GOFU. Evan Nappen 40:22 This is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens. Speaker 2 40:34 Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state. Page – 10 – of 10 Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S3 E262_Transcript About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets. Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News. As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists. He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America. 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  Episode 261-Bang or Bong or Maybe Both? Also Available OnSearchable Podcast Transcript Gun Lawyer — Episode 261 Transcript SUMMARY KEYWORDS Supreme Court, marijuana, gun laws, Second Amendment, New Jersey, carry permit, sensitive places, federal court, gun violence, national reciprocity, red flag laws, mental health, gun rights, ammunition, online sales. SPEAKERS Teddy Nappen, Speaker 2 Teddy Nappen 00:15 I’m Teddy Nappen, and welcome to Gun Lawyer. Now, I promised everyone my father would be back, and sure enough, he was back. And because he was on vacation, obviously, he got sick, and of course, he lost his voice. So, unless we wanted him on here, and you know, coughing up a lung and him, you know, having this turned into an ASMR of him whispering Gun Law, let’s let him recover. Don’t worry. He’ll more than likely be back next week. Till then, let’s let him rest. But for now, we have some news to discuss. Teddy Nappen 00:59 So, the Supreme Court, this comes from the AP News, the Supreme Court is considering whether people who regularly smoke pot can legally own guns. This comes from an article written by Lindsay Whitehurst. (https://apnews.com/article/supreme-court-marijuana-guns- e86c342bf248c7822722ad027980b72b) The Supreme Court said Monday that it will consider whether people who regularly smoke marijuana can legally own guns. Latest firearm case to come since, well, the Bruen decision. So, I want to highlight the impact, again, the hammer of Bruen, thanks to St. Justice Thomas, where we are slowly smashing and working our way through the various gun laws. And just to highlight the fact that, look, you can say what you will about marijuana, okay? It’s not the cure all, but it does have its benefits. And it’s just so prevalent, but you’ve got to focus on the fact this is about freedom and not allowing the federal Government to take away people’s rights. Because it’s all over the place, okay? And that comes up a lot, with a lot of clients. A lot of people are smoking weed. And as my father publishes and puts out there and has, very much, everyone uses it now as a coined term, “Bang or Bong. You can’t have both.” Teddy Nappen 02:17 Well, the Supreme Court heard that, and now they’re going to figure out, can you actually have it? So, President Donald Trump’s Administration has asked justice to revive the case of the Texas man charged with a felony because he alleged had a gun in his home and acknowledged he was regular pot user. The Justice Department appealed after a lower court largely struck down the law barring people who usually use any illicit illegal drugs from having guns. They argue that the broad law written puts millions of people at risk with the technical violation. Since at least 20% of Americans have tried pot, according to the Government health data, about half the states have legalized recreational marijuana, Page – 1 – of 6but it’s still illegal under federal law. Remember, that. It is still illegal under federal law. Okay? We need to just remove this as a federal issue, as a federal disqualifier, because it screws people out of their rights when it shouldn’t. It’s about allowing people, because we want as many people as they can, to be able to exercise their Second Amendment rights. Teddy Nappen 03:26 And, quite frankly, this should be removed. They should just remove marijuana as a federal disqualifier. If there’s any other way they want to carve it out. I’m happy to listen about it, but until then, this is a prevalent issue. It comes into play a lot for when people are looking to get mental health expungements. We were just having that from Dr. (John) Edeen, from that exact issue where we form a lot. If it comes up where you’re formalized your usage of marijuana, you’re screwed out of your gun rights. And that’s not right. That is not right. People should have access to their firearms. So, it’s very clearly a big issue, and we’ll see where the Supreme Court lines up on that. My hope is they strike it out, and we can move on from it. Teddy Nappen 04:18 I’d like to also talk about our friends here now at WeShoot. So, WeShoot is bursting with pride, as they are celebrating that Katie Rutherford has officially been named New Jersey State Champion in the highly competitive service pistol match. And she did it the true WeShoot fashion. Disciplined, determined and absolutely dialed in. So, congratulations to Katie on her win. WeShoot offers classes for the CCAR certification so you can get your New Jersey Permit to Carry. WeShoot is a range in Lakewood, New Jersey. They have a fantastic facility for great training and a great pro shop. They have all kinds of deals and specials. We love WeShoot. It’s where I go, where my father goes to shoot, and we got our certifications there. So, just go there and mention Gun Lawyer, and you’ll be treated like royalty. And if you don’t mention Gun Lawyer, you’ll still be treated like royalty, because they’re the best. WeShootUSA.com is their website. Beautiful photos. You can see their WeShoot girls posing with their gorgeous guns. And they’re the guns that they have that you can buy, and then you can have get great deals, great sales. They’ll not only sell you the gun, but they’ll teach you how to use it effectively. Check out WeShoot at weshootusa.com. WeShoot is conveniently located in Lakewood, New Jersey, right off the Parkway. You’ll be glad you did it. Teddy Nappen 05:45 I also want to mention the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. ANJRPC just had a case in the federal court where the Appellate Court gave a mixed win at the moment. But, of course, the fight isn’t over. We’ll call it a partial victory regarding “sensitive places” in the Carry Killer bill. Essentially what the status quo is at the moment that has been maintained, in which you can still carry in your vehicle with the car jacker protection law that has still been enjoined. You can carry concealed and loaded on your person in your vehicle if you have a New Jersey Carry Permit. That is still enjoined. You can do it because, remember the Carry Killer Bill tried to prevent it. Also, you can still go on private property, as long as it’s open to the public and not otherwise a sensitive place. We lost a little a bit in terms of filming locations, in terms of movie filming, in terms of transport on public transportation. So, you’re going to have to have your gun cased and unloaded, etc. if you’re going to go riding on the bus or on a train. Page – 2 – of 6Teddy Nappen 07:02 However, interestingly, they found that the $200 fee that was a $50 fee portion that goes to the State was unlawful. It’s unlawful because it went to the VCCB, which is the Victims Crime Compensation Board. Under the case law, you can not have a fee for licensing not go to actual regulatory activity. That is the purpose of the fee. So, that portion has been knocked out. Now, the price of a New Jersey Carry Permit is $150, and if you live in any towns that are refunding, such as Englishtown, which was one of the first in the start, they were refunding their $150. So, you can actually get your carry permit in New Jersey, in New Jersey for free. And the fight continues. There’s just one step, as we go, challenging the Second Amendment oppressionists legislation as they laid upon us. The Association is at the forefront fighting for your rights. Make sure you are a member of anjrpc.org, anjrpc.org. Teddy Nappen 08:07 Let me also mention my father’s book, New Jersey Gun Law. It is the Bible on New Jersey gun law. You can get your copy of New Jersey Gun Law at EvanNappen.com. It’ll help you navigate a very complex course that has been laid out by the gun rights oppressionists who try to trip you up at every turn, turn you into a criminal, stop you from being a defender and instead into a victim. You need to be a defender instead of a victim, especially since the police have no duty to protect you, as you now know. Get the big orange book. Order today. Scan the cover and make sure you get into the private subscriber database. You’ll get immediate access to the archives, which we update, and that we send out. Also download the 2025 Comprehensive Update that includes the new standalone chapter on “sensitive places”, where you can and cannot carry. So, check it out and get your book today. Teddy Nappen 09:06 All right. So, as we know, Press Checks are always free, and let’s see what the gun rights oppressors are pushing. We know that we’ve always got to check in on our enemy, that is The Trace, and see what they’re peddling. And the latest, as I was laughing when I was reading it, from The Trace, by Olga Pierce. (https://www.thetrace.org/2025/10/gun-violence-dropping-why-us-cities-data/) Analysts show 150 U.S. cities show one of the greatest drops in gun violence ever. Huh? I wonder why that is. I wonder why that is. Well, good news. The Trace explains itself. Gun violence is trending downward. This is what the article is talking about. Three quarters of the cities with the most shootings, according to the analysis of The Trace’s Gun Violence Data Hub. They highlight various cities such as St. Louis with their gun lines trending down in the course of 12 weeks. There has been 1.4 fewer victims being shot, translating to a 4.1% decrease of the average weekly shooting victims. They go over their details using isolating terms, which is how they cook the books. But you know, as they highlight and ignore the “blips” of various mass shootings, as they show the various lines trending. You can go to the article. They highlight. Teddy Nappen 10:45 I love how they always try to paint this here. So they say there was a large spike in pre-covid, in pre covid. In covid levels of 2020, of the spike. Now, what they don’t like to highlight is the fact that if you actually look at the data, you will see that the trend numbers, crime was still up very high prior. But there has been a massive change where there’s a downturn, where, you know, remember, they were toting during the election, where they’re saying, crime is down, crime is down. But if you actually look at it, from pre-covid levels to now, the crime was actually very high. It wasn’t until a massive change this Page – 3 – of 6year. I wonder what that was? So, now, after two more years, in their words, two years of sharp decline, you know the answer? This is their reasoning they give, folks. Here it is. Teachers, counselors, after- school programs, basketball coaches, violence interrupters and others who are the front lines of fighting gun violence. I wonder what the others are? Also, why do they highlight basketball coaches? What is that about, people? Teddy Nappen 12:03 And they were also highlighting the Bipartisan Safer Communities Act, which gave $250 million and $750 million to state programs, including red flag laws, mental health courts. And funding has dried up now. They need it. Up, here it is, folks. More money, please. More money, please. So, this is where they’re toting it. They’re trying to get the federal Government to fund their anti-gun rights programs, where they’re pushing for more red flag, believing that that actually has an effect on crime and shootings. It has been proven that it does not. So, they go into more citing about how they need to fund programs like Cease Fire, other local programs, quote, unquote. Teddy Nappen 12:56 But I want to highlight something they completely ignore. Gee, I wonder why they’re pushing for this now? Why are they now, all of a sudden, trying to say that? They’ve been pushing for a long time that crime is down and now, when it actually is showing where crime has dropped a crap ton in various areas. Why is that? Well, under USACarry, pulling this up, you can actually see how all states are now “shall issue” or Constitutional carry. (https://www.usacarry.com/concealed-carry-permit-reciprocity- maps/) So, now, the more prevalence of people being able to carry, people being able to defend themselves and not be victims of shootings, being able, which you gotta always cite to, I believe the number is 3 million lives are saved. That’s from the CDC. Lives are saved from defensive uses of a firearm. It’s one of those they need to, that is always highlighted, but they like to ignore that. So, the mass push for carry has come up and crime is starting to tick down. Teddy Nappen 14:10 Uh oh, look. And here comes the truth. Right here, from BearingArms by Cam Edwards. (https://bearingarms.com/camedwards/2025/10/13/nra-calls-on-congress-to-adopt-concealed-carry- reciprocity-n1230239) The NRA-ILA Executive Director says it’s time for Congress to step up and pass national concealed carry reciprocity, which allows lawful gun owners to carry across the country. There it is, folks. That is the push. Not just about the funding. Not just about the fact that they’re trying to push for more red flag. But they know that if there was ever a time to push for national reciprocity, here it is. And just right now in the article right from Breitbart, from AWR Hawkins. (https://www.breitbart.com/2nd-amendment/2025/10/16/president-trump-makes-clear-national- reciprocity-being-discussed/) Trump specifically said when a reporter asked. President Trump, could there be any further conversion to have national concealed carry apply to actually D.C., like you have a driver’s license in Texas and you have a permit. Trump interjected, as you know, they’ve been talking about that for a long time. It’s an interesting question. A lot of people feel strongly both ways, but we’re talking about that. The conversation is and he has said, if it ever reached his desk, he will sign it. Page – 4 – of 6Teddy Nappen 15:26 So, that’s the timing is just perfect. This comes out right in the same time as October. Then The Trace puts out this article so you can automatically see the game they’re trying to play. They’re trying to downplay, well, we don’t need national carry. We don’t. No, no, no. You don’t need that. Yeah, all the states. No, no, no, no. We need red flag. That’s helping, that’s what’s stopping you. Not the fact that now more and more people are able to carry and are able to defend themselves. I wonder why they’re trying to make this push now. So, they’re trying to stamp out the need for national reciprocity. I can honestly see this as their play, because they’re scared. They know, because we already know, the Left have lost the battleground of ideas. They’ve conceded that ground the moment that the Left shot and killed Charlie Kirk. They’ve conceded those grounds. They’ve already conceded fact and logic, because we already see the data. We already see the arguments coming to that. Teddy Nappen 16:32 So, now they’re trying to pedal the whole argument, like it’s not needed. We don’t need this. Why do you need national reciprocity? Why do that? Well, we certainly do. Because we see the disgusting manners places like New Jersey, where they’re trying to push for sensitive places left and right. Trying to go after our carry and trying to make it impossible and hamper our ability to defend ourselves. But, I wholeheartedly, President Trump. If you’re listening to this, please push for national reciprocity. Now’s the time. Seize it while you can and get us our national reciprocity now. Teddy Nappen 17:13 So, as everyone knows. The favorite segment is the GOFU, the Gun Owner Fuck Up. And let us bring up. Now, this is something that has come up recently, and this is something I need to address for people. They need to remember. Do not buy any ammunition online. Just don’t even do that. Okay? Here’s the problem. If you’re buying from online, which most of them do it from out of the state, you know, buy online. You’re in state of New Jersey, and you buy online. I’ll even pull it up right on the page in my father’s book (New Jersey Gun Law), right here, right here. On Page 13, number (8), may a person, when you’re ordering handgun ammunition, handgun ammunition, out-of-state and receive it via interstate commerce? There is no Federal statute prohibiting the acquisition in this manner. However, unless the seller fully complies with New Jersey law, which includes the display of a gun license permit and electronic recording, it is unlawful in New Jersey. Additionally, the seller could be charged with being an unlicensed New Jersey dealer. They have to comply with reporting the 2,000 or more bulk sales. Teddy Nappen 18:35 Do not do this, folks, please. Please, do not do this. Okay? Buy locally. All right, go to your local gun store to buy your ammunition, because otherwise you are setting yourselves up. They are willing. New Jersey’s fully willing to attack and go after and we’re trying to not allow them to go after gun dealers. Don’t give them the excuse. Please, please do not buy handgun ammunition online. Do not buy ammunition online, okay? All right, we must all remember that gun laws do not protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens. Page – 5 – of 6Speaker 2 19:16 Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state. Page – 6 – of 6 Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S3 E261_Transcript About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets. Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News. As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists. He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America. 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  Episode 260- Doctors and Firearms  Also Available OnSearchable Podcast Transcript Gun Lawyer — Episode 260 Transcript SUMMARY KEYWORDS Firearms, medical industry, suppressors, hearing protection, gun safety, mental health, New Jersey gun laws, Second Amendment, gun rights, trauma medicine, public health, gun ownership, ethical boundary violations, firearm training, gun legislation. SPEAKERS Teddy Nappen, Speaker 1, Speaker 2, Dr. John Edeen Teddy Nappen  00:15 I’m Teddy Nappen, and welcome to Gun Lawyer. Again, my father is allowed to have a vacation, and don’t worry, he will be back. Instead, I am going to be interviewing a very interesting individual who will provide, I think, a very important take that is being overlooked when it comes to firearms and when it comes to the medical industry. Teddy Nappen  00:43 So, I’m looking to my guest here, Dr. John Edeen, and I believe it was a Edeen rhymes with mean, if I’m correct. Dr. John Edeen  00:54 Well, that’s right, absolutely. Teddy Nappen  00:56 Oh, good. So, yeah, if you would like to introduce yourself so that everyone can understand and like, what organization you have been a part of. Speaker 1  01:07 Sure, I’d be happy to do that. So, my name is John Edeen. I am a pediatric orthopedic surgeon, thus being mean to kids is what I do for a living. Ha, ha, ha. It’s pretty funny. I am the membership director for Doctors for Responsible Gun Ownership (DRGO), which is a Second Amendment foundation organization, and it was founded first in about 1994 by Tim Wheeler, who is an ear, nose and throat surgeon in California. (https://drgo.us/) He realized that there was a lot of bias in the medical literature, and also a lot of the academia locally in California, and he was one of the guys that was actually instrumental in getting the Dickey Amendment passed, which basically forbade the CDC from doing biased advocacy research against the Second Amendment. (https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5993413/) Dr. John Edeen  02:06 And I’ve been with DRGO for about 12 years now. So, DRGO is an interesting organization because it’s, you know, doctors and other healthcare professionals, and we even have, believe it or not, a couple lawyers as part of DRGO. Dr. John Edeen  02:22 Yeah, I know. But we’ve done, we’ve done some amicus briefs for some of the, you know, pertinent cases that has some stuff to do with medical stuff. Just recently the ear, nose and throat society. I can’t remember the actual name of it, but they actually came out with a position statement supporting suppressors. And one of our members, Hayes Wanamaker, who’s also in the leadership of DRGO, actually spoke at the Gun Rights Policy Conference two weekends ago about this. He gave the kind of the scientific stuff, and there is a paper at our website, which is DRGO.us, which goes over a lot of that same information. And there’s, it’s really good intellectual ammunition, especially if you’re in a state where they’ve outlawed suppressors, and you’re trying to get that undone. Teddy Nappen  02:22 Ah, get them out of there. Dr. John Edeen  03:02 Because, you know, based on what happened with the Big Beautiful Bill, you know that the suppressor tax is going away, and so people are going to be buying suppressors left and right. But if you’re in a state that doesn’t allow you to have a suppressor, then you can use this to try to lobby. You use it as good information. Teddy Nappen  03:36 I’m incredibly thankful for that, because I find that a lot of people, if we arm them with a lot of this information, they can persuade a lot of people. Because look, if you talk to the average person, they think suppressor, like, what? You want one of that and you want, like, random shootings, like in John Wick? No, it actually has a very important value, because we don’t need to all be going deaf. Thank you. Dr. John Edeen  04:00 What was that? Teddy Nappen  04:03 Exactly! Dr. John Edeen  04:05 I mean, you have a bunch of shooters that are talking to each other. They’re, they’re like, half of the stuff you can’t hear, right? Because they can’t hear what the other guy’s saying because they have hearing loss. It’s just, it’s crazy. What is that? What did you just say? Huh? Teddy Nappen  04:21 Sorry, I’ve got range ears. Dr. John Edeen  04:24 Yeah, I tell you I’ve lost hearing. You know, all you have to do is be, you know, laying prone and with a rifle, and you bump your ear muffs, and all of a sudden you lose your seal. Next thing you know, your ears are ringing. And that ringing is your little hair cells in your cochlea dying. I want you to know that. That’s what that is. And one exposure to, I think it’s what 120 decibels or something like that, can cause permanent hearing loss. All that stuff is in our paper, and it’s worth having. (https://drgo.us/position-statements/suppressors-hearing/) There’s, there’s like, a little synopsis, but then there’s, there’s the whole paper. And you can print them out. There’s great pictures. It has pictures of the cochlea and, you know, and it gives you a fact. Dr. John Edeen  05:07 I can pull this up right now. I’m sitting here in front of my computer, but here it is. It’s written by, first of all, it’s written by 1, 2, 3, 4 ear, nose and throat surgeons, and they have like, photo micrographs of the inner ear. They have the instant damage is at 140 decibels, by the way. And it’s all on here. And it tells you like a lawn mower is 90 decibels and a jackhammer is 110 decibels. And so a lawn mower for eight hours can give you damage. A jackhammer for 15 minutes can give you damage. Dr. John Edeen  05:44 And then anything over 140 decibels, gives you instant damage, like a firecracker, a pistol or a rifle. But it’s interesting. It’s very interesting. And there’s a lot of good information. And then there’s also you, if you go looking for it, the ear, nose, and throat people have their paper too, and I think Hayes Wanamaker was one of the authors on that paper, or at least on that position statement. Teddy Nappen  06:11 Honestly, I feel that this is going to be very important. As I believe, I think it’s NRA or GOA or  pro gun there, they just submitted their challenges to the NFA. The fact that they are removing the tax on the suppressor. Dr. John Edeen  06:27 Right. It makes perfect sense. Teddy Nappen  06:27 So, yeah. I wouldn’t be surprised. Like, you know, you might get a call or two saying, hey, we want some information, because we’re going to arm this up. But that is going to be very helpful and benefit, because it’s always a fight for freedom, just kind of going into it. Teddy Nappen  06:29 Now, this is something that happens with a good chunk of us. Every time I go into the doctor’s office, there’s two things that always happen. One, he always calls me fat. Number two, he always asks if I possess firearms. So, what is up with that? Dr. John Edeen  06:46 Well, you know, a lot of the major organizations, the AMA (American Medical Association) and the American Academy of Pediatrics, they’re all influenced by the Left. They’re Northeastern, you know, academia. Their whole goal is to disarm you so that they can do their Leftist stuff to you, and that’s why we, as gun owners, want to keep our rights so that we can keep them from doing the stuff they want to do to us. Because we’ll be armed and they won’t be able to do anything to us. Dr. John Edeen  07:39 So, here’s the thing. First of all, doctors don’t receive any training in firearms. Firearm safety, you know, firearms mechanics, how guns work. They’re completely unqualified. And remember gun ownership is a civil right, you know, and as a consumer, you have a lot of power in the doctor/ patient relationship. So, don’t be afraid to use it. First of all, you can refuse to answer their question. In fact, I think was it Tom Gresham used to say, basically, it’s not a sin to lie somebody that has no business knowing the answer. And this is one of the things. You know, I’m not necessarily telling you to lie to your doctor about everything else, but frankly, for this, this is one of those things that they have no business even asking you or knowing. Dr. John Edeen  08:32 If your health care plan, if this is part of their questionnaire thing, you can complain to them about that. And then also if the doctor, if they persist in asking intrusive questions about this, despite you saying, I’m not, I don’t want to talk about this. This is not why we’re here. There’s a term for that. It’s called an ethical boundary violation. And basically what that is, is that the physician is pushing an agenda that doesn’t necessarily benefit the patient. It’s, you know, they’re doing a political thing that’s not necessarily in your long-term benefit. And that’s an ethical boundary violation. Dr. John Edeen  09:15 And probably the best example of an ethical boundary violation is having sex with your patient. That’s how bad this is. And you are allowed to complain to your professional board, the State Medical Board, and it’s a big deal when that happens. It requires the doctor to jump through a whole lot of hoops, and frankly, the process is the punishment. It’s not much of a fun thing to go through, having had complaints put against me in the past. It’s no good, honestly. Teddy Nappen  09:51 I’ll save that the next time they ask me my pronouns. Dr. John Edeen  09:55 Exactly. Dr. John Edeen  09:56 Now, here’s another thing. This is my favorite thing to say, and by the way, a lot of this is at DRGO.us,  it’s just the question, the medical question. This is my favorite one, though. Ask the doctor, so, doctor, does your insurance company know that you’re practicing outside of your expertise in medical practice? And if I’m harmed by the advice that you give me, will your malpractice insurer cover you to my benefit? Even despite the fact that you are practicing outside of the scope of practice that you’re credentialed in? Dr. John Edeen  10:34 And that usually will shut them up faster than anything else. Because they realize, oh, my goodness, I’ve stepped on it. I’m out. I’m out of, I’m out of bounds, basically, at that point, because, you know. And the other thing you can ask him is, you know, what organization certifies you to give firearms advice? And if it’s the AMA, say, well, I’d like to see that AMA course on firearm safety. It doesn’t exist. It’s, it’s, you know. Even though I think isn’t it one of the Bloomberg groups that is actually doing a firearm safety thing? Teddy Nappen  11:08 Correct. Every time. They are doing that. EveryTown is putting out a certification course. Yeah, well, BearingArms did a whole article on it. (https://bearingarms.com/tomknighton/2025/10/18/everytown-is-having-a-rough-time-and-were-here-for-it-n1230299) I wish I could pull it up for you. Teddy Nappen  11:21 But what they did was they had a guy who did, who knows who does the certifications, knows what it was. And it was this complete anti-gun bias all up and down. Dr. John Edeen  11:33 Of course it was. Teddy Nappen  11:34 Like, yeah, it was just galore. And it was like, oh, my God. It’s like having a vegan teach you how to do butcher like, you know, butchering. Like it was so disgusting, Dr. John Edeen  11:48 Yeah, and it doesn’t surprise me. Because their intent is not gun safety, it’s gun confiscation. You know it, I know it. Your dad knows it. I mean, you know, as you like to say, Registration, and then, you know, Confiscation, and then you know Extermination, you know, that’s what they’re after. Teddy Nappen  12:10 The step you missed. And this is what we always need to remember. It always begins with Legislation. So, everyone get out and vote. Dr. John Edeen  12:17 Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Teddy Nappen  12:19 Like your life depended on it, so. Dr. John Edeen  12:21 Because it does. Teddy Nappen  12:23 Yeah. And going off of that and kind of one of the other topics, and this has been coming up a lot. I don’t know if you’re too familiar in New Jersey, what’s been going on with mental health commitments, of what they’ve kind of abused that, where they recently made a change under the Carry Killer law, where now voluntaries are considered involuntaries. So, instead of just getting a doctor’s letter saying you’re fine for a voluntary stay, you need a full expungement. That is a whole legal procedure that takes a mass amounts of time, money and effort to get cleared. Which, by the way, sometimes the records don’t even exist because they would destroy them after a certain amount of years. And in some ways, they can construe like rehab. So, what is your view on that when it comes to the mental health commitments for where they’re been making people equivalent of convicted felons? Dr. John Edeen  13:18 Well, I mean, first of all, there are people that have mental illnesses that they probably shouldn’t own guns. And we have to differentiate those people. People with like, you know, chronic schizophrenia, where they have impaired reality testing, versus somebody who, you know, they just went through a divorce and was a little down. And, you know, situational, normal, reactive times of depression. And, you know, that’s a different area. And what you’re trying to do is conflate that with somebody who’s, you know, basically, you know, a psycho killer. You know what I’m saying? Teddy Nappen  13:58 Yeah, I they do. My favorite one. I always highlight this to people. A guy is like in his 70s, 80s, and is denied because he was an unruly child when he was seven, and that didn’t screws him out of his gun rights because it was an involuntary commitment when he was seven for a day. Like, that’s disgusting. Dr. John Edeen  14:20 Yeah, no. In fact that, in and of itself, shows you the extent that they’ll go to try to disarm people. And the whole thing is a travesty. And frankly, I mean, lawyers like you guys ought to be going after that kind of stuff, because it doesn’t give anybody due process. You have no ability to, you know, fight it, basically, you know. If they make a law that says, you know, 50 years ago, you know, you were, you had ADHD, and you went a little crazy, and you ended up in the hospital. Or, you know, you took some pills, and you got, you know, you were hallucinating, or something like that, and you end up in the hospital. That’s not necessarily something that you should lose your rights over. Teddy Nappen  15:09 Yeah, and, quite frankly, just the level of what it takes to even get the records cleared. The judges have such broad discretion that, I mean, they can just say, oh, yeah, everything’s here. You’ve met the criteria. Doctor says you’re fine, but I’m still going to deny you because of character, temperament and whatever weasel clause they use. Dr. John Edeen  15:35 But under Bruen, that’s not allowed, is it? I mean,  that’s the whole thing. It has to be a distinct set of criteria, not. Teddy Nappen  15:45 The issue is, when it comes to mental health expungements, the three pillars they have. Under the law for mental health expungements, you have the medical history, then you have criminal history, and then community ties and relations, which, that’s the catch all. That was how they were going about denying people. So, now they have to go through this massive character factor issues that have to go through that, and it’s just. It’s a laundry list of issues that come into play for people. So, it’s something that definitely is quite disgusting. And luckily, the firm, the law firm, handles that pretty well. But it’s just, it’s always such a fight for these people, because they just destroy people’s lives in New Jersey. Dr. John Edeen  16:33 They do, and it’s horrible. It’s absolutely horrible. And frankly, you know, fortunately, we have good people on the medical side, too. You know, you and I both know a lot of those people, and at least, but you know, it costs money. Then it costs time, and it costs mental anguish. You know, this whole, they’re putting you through it again. You know the process is the punishment, and they’re trying to discourage people from owning firearms. It’s all about disarming people, period. Teddy Nappen  17:08 So, on that note, I will just, I think, as a way to cheer your mode. I want to talk about our good buddies at WeShoot. As our people may know, our good friends at WeShoot offer classes on getting your CCARE certification so you can get your New Jersey Permit to Carry. WeShoot is a range in Lakewood, New Jersey. They have a fantastic facility with great training and a great pro shop. They have all kinds of deals and specials. We love WeShoot. It’s where I and my father go and shoot, and we got our certifications. If you go there and mention Gun Lawyer, you’ll be treated like a king. If not, you’ll still be treated like a king, because they are the best. Go to weshootusa.com. That’s their website. Beautiful photos, and don’t miss the WeShoot girls as they’re posing with gorgeous guns. And there are guns that you can buy, and they have great deals, great sales. They can not only, they can not only sell you the guns, but also they can teach you how to effectively use them as well. Check out weshootusa.com. WeShoot is conveniently located in Lakewood, New Jersey, right off the Parkway. You’ll be glad you did. Teddy Nappen  18:16 And let me also mention our good friends at the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs (ANJRPC). And the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs just had a case in the federal court where the appellate court gave a mixed win at the moment. But of course, the fight never ends. It was, we’ll call it a partial victory regarding sensitive places in the Carry Killer bill. Essentially, what the status quo is at the moment has been maintained. You can still carry in your vehicle with the carjacker protection law that was still enjoined. You can carry concealed, loaded on your person in your vehicle with a New Jersey Carry Permit. That is still enjoined. And you can do that because, remember, the Carry Killer Bill tried to prevent it. Teddy Nappen  19:02 You can still go on private property, as long as it’s open to the public and not otherwise a sensitive place. We lost a little bit in terms of filming locations, in terms of movie filming, and in terms of transporting on public transportation. You’re going to have to have the gun cased and unloaded, etc., if you’re going to be riding a bus or train. However, interestingly, they found that the $50 fee portion that goes to the State was unlawful. It’s unlawful because it went to the VCCB, which is the Victim’s Crime Compensation Board. Under case law, you cannot have a fee for the license not actually go to regulatory activity. That is the purpose of the fee. That has been knocked out. So, now you only have to pay the $150, and if you live in any town that is refunding, such as Englishtown, which was one of the first to start it, they’ll refund their $150. So, you can actually get your carry permit in New Jersey for free. Teddy Nappen  20:04 And the fight continues. This is just one step as we go along, challenging the Second Amendment oppressionists legislation as they’ve laid it upon us. And the Association is in the forefront fighting for your rights. Make sure you’re a member of the anjrpc.org That’s anjrpc.org. Teddy Nappen  20:23 And before we finish off the ads, let me shamelessly plug my father’s book, New Jersey Gun Law. The Bible of New Jersey gun laws. You can get your copy of New Jersey Gun Law at EvanNappen.com. And you’ll be glad you did. Because it helps keep yourself out of the New Jersey Gun Owner Gulag. It helps you navigate the very complex course that has been laid out by the gun rights oppressionists who try to trip up and turn you into a criminal. To stop you from being a defender instead of a victim. You need to be a defender instead of a victim, especially since the police have no duty protect you, as you know. So, get the book. You’ll be glad you did. Go to EvanNappen.com and look for the big orange book. Order today, and when you get it, make sure you scan the front cover and get in the private subscriber base. You’ll be able to immediately access the archives, and you’ll get the up to date, including be able to download the 2025 Comprehensive Update that includes a new standalone chapter on “sensitive places”. Where you can and cannot carry. So, check it out today. Teddy Nappen  21:27 So, Dr Edeen, one of the other big things that does come up a lot, and this is just something I see. The Left is constantly making this argument where they’ve tried and tried to make firearms a health issue. They always try to conflate that. And I don’t know if there was anything you can highlight to us like where did that kind of start or any spot to where you can kind of give your opinion on that issue? Dr. John Edeen  21:59 Well, it goes back probably 20 to 30 years. They’ve been trying to push the public health issue side of this thing. And frankly, doctors have no control over the public health issue, over the “gun violence” issue. It’s not a public health issue. It’s a criminology issue. You have to, when you look at Dr John Lott’s research, it’s the same people over and over again in a very small area that are the recurrent perpetrators of the violent acts and end up causing the “gun violence”. So, it’s really not a, you know, public health issue. Dr. John Edeen  22:46 It’s not like it’s a disease that you can stop, you know. I mean, I mean, if you can intervene at the gang level, and, you know, get the kids not to go into the gangs, that might be some kind of a public health thing that you can do. But that’s about as close as you’re going to get to preventing this, you know. Because this is really a gang violence problem. It’s a criminal, it’s a criminal violence problem, but it’s not a public health problem. Dr. John Edeen  23:16 The beauty is that trauma medicine has evolved so well that we’re still able to save a lot of people when they get shot. If you can make it to the hospital alive, you’re probably going to survive. You know, the trauma centers and the trauma systems are set up to help people survive. So, you got these gang bangers, if you look at them, you know, they’ve been shot six times, 10 times. They end up getting shot. They go to the hospital, and they get patched up. They go back out, and they get into another gunfight. They get shot again. And so these guys aren’t afraid of you or me with a gun. I can tell you that right now, because they’ve been shot already. Most of them have been shot, and they’ve survived it. And so, don’t be surprised if you know one of these guys, you know, if you pull a gun on him, he laughs at you. Unless you’re serious and he realizes that you’re going to, you’re going to shoot him, you know, and you’re going to shoot him down to the ground. He may not be afraid of you. So, it’s really not a public health thing. They like to call it a public health issue, but medicine has no tools to stop a criminal activity. And that’s really the bottom line. Teddy Nappen  24:27 Honestly, I was thinking of the, I remember there was some crime story where they were interviewing a former gang member, and he covered his face. But he took off his shirt, and he showed like he got shot gunned, like, point blank to the chest, and he lived. And it wasn’t even, like, bird, it was buckshot. So, I’m like, how? But yeah, some people, it’s Dr. John Edeen  24:51 He’s lucky. They just didn’t hit, they didn’t hit something big enough to cause him to bleed out before he made it to the hospital. You know, they probably took out part of his lung and probably took up, you know, branches of the pulmonary artery in a vain. But it might have Tampa nodded off, or whatever. Or somebody might have stuffed something in there and kept him from bleeding to death. But, you know, I mean, the ability of the trauma surgeons to save people’s lives is pretty amazing. Dr. John Edeen  25:17 Man, I was a military surgeon back in the, in the, you know, the 1980s and early, mid 80s to mid 90s. Teddy Nappen  25:25 A saw bones, were you? Dr. John Edeen  25:26 Oh, yeah. I mean, I am a saw bones. I’m an orthopedic surgeon. That’s what I do. I saw bones and correct them. Straighten them out, put screws and plates in them and all that kind of stuff. But, you know, the bottom line is that, especially like, since the global war on terror, trauma medicine has evolved and evolved. You know, people were using tourniquets and now we have quick clot. I mean, I carry a tourniquet and quick clot in my pocket wherever I go. I have it with me 24/7. because those are the most effective things in my view. You can, you can kind of jury rig, you know, a chest seal out of the packet for that, that troop, the clot gauze or, you know, with some duct tape or whatever. But the bottom line is, is stopping that, you know, stopping the bleeding is probably the most important thing for people to survive, you know, penetrating trauma Teddy Nappen  26:20 Is there a tourniquet you would recommend for someone to carry? Dr. John Edeen  26:24 I use the soft T wide, but the cat tourniquet is also good. Both of them are. They’re kind of the tourniquets of choice, put out by the military trauma people. I mean, there are other tourniquets out there too, but those are the recommended ones by the Committee on trauma. Teddy Nappen  26:47 Honestly, that’s pretty good advice. I might actually start doing that. Dr. John Edeen  26:51 Yeah, I have, I keep it. I wear scrubs all the time, and I have, you know, pockets, five pockets. And my scrubs are like cargo pockets. So, I’ll throw a tourniquet on one side and two things of quick clot gauze on the other, and just carry that. It’s easy to do. You don’t even know it’s there. Teddy Nappen  27:10 I’ll definitely consider that. So, I know you touched on this. What is your opinion of the AMA and their position on firearms. I think you touched on it, but I think let’s paint it very clear as to kind of the enemies of our rights. Dr. John Edeen  27:31 Can I say they’re a bunch of commies? Teddy Nappen  27:33 You may do so. I fully believe it. Dr. John Edeen  27:36 Yeah. And they want to take, they want to take over. They want to take over medicine, first of all, and here’s something. Let’s look at what happened during the Covid crisis. The medical community sold us all out for money. I’m on something called the Profession. I was on the Professional Staff Committee. They just dissolved it about a month ago. Dr. John Edeen  28:03 But during Covid, I kept asking the powers that be. I said, why are we not doing any studies on ivermectin or what’s the other stuff? I can’t remember. Anyway, yeah, hydroxychloroquine. Why don’t we? Why aren’t we doing any studies on that? Well, you know, why aren’t we, you know, treating people early when they show up with a positive covid test. Why aren’t we giving them something to treat them? Why are we waiting till they’re on death’s door and then we put them in the hospital? Oh, yeah, and we get $40,000 a day from the federal government to treat each one of those patients in the hospital. But we get zippo when we treat them, you know, with medication. Dr. John Edeen  28:47 And then the other thing is in order to get approval for an emergency use of a vaccine, there has to be no other medical treatment available. So, this is all about the billions of dollars that were available through the Government to Big Pharma, which was then also through Government passing down money, you know, to the hospitals. And so, we were sold out by medicine. And I’m a doctor, you know, and I could see it. You follow the money. I’ve been talking about this for five years now. I mean, since probably 2020, for five years, I’ve been talking about the fact that you have to follow the money to find out what’s going on. And we’ve been sold out by the, you know, the Big Pharma. We’ve been sold out by the American Medical Association. We’ve been sold out by the Centers for Disease Control, and we’ve been sold out by our Government. And this whole thing is, you know, this is the public health issue, not guns. Okay? Dr. John Edeen  29:56 You know, the AMA is a Left wing organization. They’re crooked as, you know, what? And, you know, I don’t trust anything they say. And I’ve been dealing with, you know, my dad’s 97 right now. He broke his hip six months ago. We’re dealing with, you know, we’re dealing with all the health issues. They can’t get anything done, you know. And the whole system is corrupt. Teddy Nappen  30:21 I completely understand that. We’ve had a lot of family where it’s always you’ve got to know somebody, but it’s just the games they play and the hoops they make you jump through. To the point I’m just, I always love at the end of every email you get from the hospital, it’s from the World Health Organization. I’m like, oh, that’s all, that really helps. Dr. John Edeen  30:43 Yeah, it’s not, it’s not healthy at all. Teddy Nappen  30:46 Nah, no, yeah, yeah. But on the one, the last questions, you’ve been very informative on all this, and I think our listeners will appreciate someone of your position and knowledge putting that out for people. Because they need to arm themselves and hear the truth. Regarding, what is your view on the health benefits of children and guns together, getting the early experience of firearms? I don’t know if you had anything on that. Dr. John Edeen  31:16 Well, you know, kids and firearms, under good supervision, children can learn anything, right? And we’ve all seen organizations where children are taught how to use a .22 pistol to do target shooting, or shoot it using a shotgun for target shooting or whatever. Those kids step up, and they mature. And so, as far as I’m concerned, supervised firearms training and children is actually a great thing. Dr. John Edeen  31:51 Because it allows, I mean, I live in Texas, okay? We’ve got ranches all over the place. Kids are hunting from, from the you know, they’re, you know, age 10 and beyond. They go out in the woods with their .22 rifle and shoot, you know, squirrels and whatever? Do I see kids getting shot? Yeah, I see kids shooting themselves once in a while, and the first thing I ask them is, so, what are the rules of gun safety? And you know, most of them don’t know that answer. Dr. John Edeen  32:21 But you can ask some of the other kids, you know, some of the kids, they’re, you know, they’re competitive shotgunners. You know, that’s one of the biggest sports in the country. Did you know that? Shotgun sports? Yeah, the high school championships in the Midwest are huge. You don’t hear about it in New Jersey. But in other places in the country, there’s a lot, there’s a lot. It’s bigger than football in some places. And so, yes. Dr. John Edeen  32:50 But if you look up, you look up shotgun sports and kids, you know skeet shooting and trap shooting and stuff like that. It’s a big deal on the Midwest. There are leagues, and they’re, you know, they’re like, it’s like, your team, you know, your high school team plays against the other high school team in shot gunning. It’s great stuff. So, you know, it’s limited in in certain places. You know, they try to suppress it, but in other places where it’s allowed, it blooms. And it’s just phenomenal for kids,. Because it helps them mature, and it’s a social thing. And it helps them with, you know, just developing responsibility, a sense of accomplishment. It’s that whole thing. Now, why people? Why kids do sports? It’s to develop into a into a good, responsible adult. Teddy Nappen  33:46 It’s definitely, I see that benefit. And quite frankly, I remember when my uncle would talk about, like, he would go to elementary school, take his shotgun, put in his cubby. Then finish off school, and then when he was done, he’d go turkey hunting right after. Like, it’s that culture of training and growing up with firearms that I think is very benefit. And honestly, that’s why I think there are some schools now doing, like, firearm safety training as part of the school curriculum. They need to understand that. So, but, um, yeah, that’s actually very interesting on that. And I didn’t realize how popular it is. Dr. John Edeen  34:21 Oh, yeah. It’s a huge thing. Huge. Teddy Nappen  34:25 Huge. Nice. Dr. John Edeen  34:26 Huge. Teddy Nappen  34:30 Well, you gotta love it. Yeah, exactly. Oh, man, anytime I hear him like speak, it’s his us, wrong. No, it’s a stupid question, move along, like. Dr. John Edeen  34:45 He is hilarious. Teddy Nappen  34:47 Oh, yeah. So, yep. That is all the questions I wanted to ask regarding that, and I wanted to thank you for your time and just and discussing these issues. And again, can you repeat the organization and where they can find a lot of this information. Because. Teddy Nappen  35:03 Sure. Teddy Nappen  35:03 Again, I want everyone to take their time to listen and read this stuff, because it is important. Dr. John Edeen  35:09 There’s so much on our website, you can’t read it all. I’ll tell you that right now. Our document archives goes back into the 1990s. So, we have, you know, on our blog, we have stuff from a lot. There’s stuff that I’ve written. They’ve actually published or republished two of the articles that I wrote. One was about an active shooter in the hospital. It’s called “The unthinkable: an active shooter in the hospital.” I wrote that in our local magazine for our medical society. And then I also wrote for USCCA, an article about terrorism against hospitals world wide, and I wrote that in, I think, 2015. That’s also reprinted. So, that’s some of the stuff that I’ve written. Plus, there’s more that I’ve written. But there are positions and resources, guns and public health, gun safety, gun research, gun question, EMRs and gun suppressors and hearing protective orders and external resources. Dr. John Edeen  36:11 Article archives by a bunch of us, and then there’s just document archives. There’s media stuff or blog. It just goes, it goes on and on and on. We’re also on like Facebook. And Rob Young publishes a lot of stuff there. There’s a lot of interactive stuff, too. So, you can interact with him. Rob Young is  our director and again, we are part of the Second Amendment Foundation. If you’re interested in becoming a member, you can go to DRGO.us and just join. There’s a tab for “join now.” It’s like 35 bucks, but it’s worth it, especially if you’re in the healthcare profession. We would love to have you write articles. And you know, it’s just a good bunch of folks. I’ll just leave it at that. But this is a great resource. A great resource. Teddy Nappen  37:07 Yep, and to anyone out there who is a doctor and is pro-gun, I mean, your voice needs to be heard. Because, like he said, good chunk of them are not, and I think we need to have that out there. There needs to be good doctors, ones you can actually trust and have your backing and aren’t trying to take away your rights. Dr. John Edeen  37:27 Absolutely. And we’re the good ones. Teddy Nappen  37:31 I know, right? Dr. John Edeen  37:33 We’re the good guys. I will never try to take away your guns, believe me. Never in a million years. Teddy Nappen  37:39 Yep. So, you can catch now. This is what we do at the end of the show, known as the GOFUs, the Gun Owner Fuck Up. It’s a lesson that other people have learned, so anyone listening can learn it without having to pay the price. And this is a lesson that has recently come up. If you are ever you know, arrested or the cop says, you’re not free to leave, shut up! People, men have died for your for those rights. Stand on them. Remain silent and ask for your attorney. That is it. Teddy Nappen  38:18 If you are arrested, you are arrested, but do not say anything. If the cop goes up to you and says, oh, I talked to the other guy, but I want to get your side of the story. You say, I have nothing to say. Talk to my attorney. That is it. You do not need to give that side of the story. At best, it’s neutral and doesn’t affect the outcome, and you’ll still be and probably still be arrested. At worst, you’re hurting yourself, and it’s how it goes. Teddy Nappen  38:47 My father always highlights this all the time. Where Martha Stewart, you know, what she went to jail for wasn’t tax evasion. It wasn’t for taxes.  It was for lying to the police. Do you know how you can avoid lying to the police? Don’t say anything. That’s how it goes. So with that, thank you to my guest, Dr. John Edeen, for coming on here. Teddy Nappen  39:08 I am Teddy Nappen, reminding you that gun laws do not protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens. Speaker 2  39:17 Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state. Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S3 E260_Transcript About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets. Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News. As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists. He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America. Email Evan Your Comments and Questions  [email protected] Join Evan’s InnerCircleHere’s your chance to join an elite group of the Savviest gun and knife owners in America.  Membership is totally FREE and Strictly CONFIDENTIAL.  Just enter your email to start receiving insider news, tips, and other valuable membership benefits.   Email (required) *First Name *Select list(s) to subscribe toInnerCircle Membership Yes, I would like to receive emails from Gun Lawyer Podcast. (You can unsubscribe anytime)Constant Contact Use. Please leave this field blank.var ajaxurl = "https://gun.lawyer/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php";

  Episode 259-AG Stands for “Anti-Gun” Also Available OnSearchable Podcast Transcript Gun Lawyer — Episode 259 Transcript SUMMARY KEYWORDS Anti-gun movement, New Jersey, Attorney General Matthew Platkin, Safe Office, Bruen decision, gun rights, firearm enforcement, Butcher’s Gun World, legal swatting, ghost guns, New Jersey Rifle and Pistol Club, carry permit, New Jersey gun law, pork roll controversy, gun lawyer. SPEAKERS Teddy Nappen, Speaker 2 Teddy Nappen 00:15 I’m Teddy Nappen, and welcome to Gun Lawyer. My father is allowed to be on vacation and could not make it to the episode, but don’t worry, he’ll come back. I know we were going into details on the face of the anti-gun movement. We talked about who is truly the effective anti-gun, gun rights oppressionists of New Jersey. Everyone might just shout out, oh, Governor Murphy, obviously. I get that. However, there is one individual who has become the attack dog or spearhead of the anti-gun agenda in New Jersey and has been very effective at attacking our rights. Even now, as we have the Bruen decision, as we have many pro-gun avenues like Ford, where we’re getting far more wins than we could have ever imagined. The one individual who has been an absolute destroyer of our rights is Attorney General Matthew J. Platkin. Teddy Nappen 01:31 Now, we’ve talked about Platkin with his SAFE Office, the Statewide Affirmative Firearms Enforcement Office. It sounds really official. They have used this as a weaponization against our rights because they’ve already conceded the grounds of, okay, they can’t win legally in terms of Constitutionality. We’re winning on those fronts, slowly but surely. They can’t win on the voice of ideas, because the anti-gun arguments are immediately shut down. The only time they can ever even attempt to pull something out is whenever there’s a mass shooting and they try to blood dance. But with the Charlie Kirk assassination,, the ICE attack and then every single Left wing attack, the conversation has pivoted to mental health and highlighting those factors. So essentially, we’ve won in terms of the argument ideas. Teddy Nappen 02:30 So, they can’t win on Constitutionality. They can’t win in the open forum of ideas. What do they have left? Well, Platkin found his avenue. We talked about how the AG launched two suits. They were going after two gun shops, basically saying that they violated New Jersey’s law. This is actually on the AG’s website, and he’s bragging about it. (https://www.njoag.gov/ag-platkin-announces-victory-in-gun-store- case/) Like he’s not hiding it. This is what he is doing. Attorney General Matthew Platkin announces a significant victory against Butch’s Gun World, a Vineland gun store that sold over 1000 rounds of AR-15 ammunition and other gun-related products. Gun-related products. And what does that apply to? An accessory. A sling, a piece of metal. Like what is it. They just, whatever. Whatever catch-all term that they have, and without making any efforts to determine that they could lawfully possess a firearm, which, whatever. That’s not how the law is applied. But you know, what does that fall to the Attorney General. Page 1 of 6 Teddy Nappen 03:44 He goes into great detail on how he just brags about it, where the SAFE Office launched their attack in March of 2025 with two retailers. The one that settled where, essentially now the gun shop has to send all transactions, all transactions, any gun-related transactions they have to send to the office. So, you’re not only registering guns, you’re not only registering ammunition, you’re registering any gun-related products. This is the gun rights suppressor’s wet dream. Gathering their list of any and all things that are even related to guns. The one group settled. However, Butch’s Gun World actually tried to fight it. And I love this part of the article where Judge Robert Malestein of the New Jersey Superior Court, Chancellors Division, rejected Butch’s Gun World’s attempt to avoid liability. The ruling noted the facts of the case that Butch’s Gun World, established by SAFE undercover investigators, were not in dispute. Okay? Not in dispute. They’re disputing that what they had there was legal. Not that the undercovers are saying that it is illegal. And held that there was no evidence that Butch’s Gun World had established any controls regarding the sales of gun-related products. Teddy Nappen 05:12 What controls were they required? What controls are needed for that? There wasn’t anything needed for gun-related products. And this is my favorite part. The court therefore granted summary judgment in favor of the Attorney General, issued an injunction compelling Butcher’s Gun World to immediately comply with the Firearm Industry Public Safety Law. And what is the requirements that the AG has now tacked on? Ask for a government-issued photo identification such as a driver’s license potential buyer to card or permit that lack of photo identification. Keep records of all sales of gun-related products, detailing the verifications means of each sale for three years. Transmit those records to the SAFE office and write a set of policies used to educate and train each of the staff in terms of the injunction of those written policies within the space of the accessibility to staff during business hours. Teddy Nappen 06:16 So what does that mean? Now this shop, this gun shop, has to effectively report all of their sales transactions. Not just guns. Not just ammunition. Anything that they determine to be gun-related products, and now they have to send it all to the SAFE office. What are they doing with that information? Well, obviously they’re making, compiling, a massive registry and records. Keeping track of all purchases. I wonder why they’re doing that? Something, something. Legislation leads to Registration, leads to Confiscation, leads to Extermination. That’s the game. It doesn’t go into detail regarding if he’s challenging the court’s summary judgment. I would. This is insanity for the for them to not be allowed. There was no dispute that everything was done legally and that the AG is weaponizing the SAFE office to go after gun shops. Because now they’re trying to do that. Teddy Nappen 07:23 I love the Left’s term. They’re trying to coin the term, food desert. Which, by the way, a food desert is a myth. You can. That’s ridiculous. And now they’re trying to do news deserts with the defunding of PBS. Well, here’s the actual strategy, gun deserts. That is their goal. Gun deserts. Fine. You can have your rights. Good luck trying to get a firearm. And they’re trying to go after these shops any way they can. And this is the highlight of Platkin’s career, as there have been many things that he has done when he was appointed by Governor Murphy. This is going off of the Democrat Attorney General Association, which is one heck of a group. (https://dems.ag/profile/matthew-platkin/) You can just see here are all the gun rights oppressors all listed out, and they’re pushed to go after our rights. He has launched his attacks, and all this is on his website. Page 2 of 6 Teddy Nappen 08:20 He’s bragging about his attacks. I love this. He sent a letter to Glock after suing them. A letter being issued by the City of Chicago in that where they march, they Chicago had filed suits against Glock, knowing their guns can be easily adopted to make into a machine gun with the addition of an auto sear. I love how they always tote the auto seer. They always try to drag those things in every single time. Really, that’s the threat? The current issue of crime that people do? Yeah, the massive influx of auto sears. Yeah, that’s the real problem. And the City said machine guns have become a weapon of choice for the criminals of Chicago. Yeah, yeah. Not the fact that it’s just a pistol, typically, not an actual machine gun, like. And the letter detailing that they had sent out basically modification to Glock handguns through the use of switches. How Glock pistols are designed to develop a function as semiotic, any efforts Glock may have taken in considering and Glocks knowledge about all state and federal laws regulating the Glock switches and converting Glock machine guns. Legal responsibility as a manufacturer these guns, whether they follow the law and financial details about Glock pistols, including profits, manufacturing, distribution costs. Oh, that’s nice. Yeah, Glock just hand over all their details on who you’ve been selling to, who’s been buying and selling Glock pistols, and keep track of those. That’s always the goal they want. It’s all about control, yeah. And then they highlighted their suit against Glock for violating state firearm industries for New Jersey. Teddy Nappen 10:19 And then, of course, he tacked himself on with 20 other Attorney Generals in their amicus brief on the new federal rule regarding ghost guns. Ghost guns. Unserialized weapons that are often made at home – kits, parts, completely framed receivers. It can be purchased without any background check. Such weapons are illegal in New Jersey. The rule would ensure that buyers pass background checks before purchasing such kits. They see here, just trying to justify the gun control movement by going after Glock switches, ghost guns and targeting dealers because that is all they have now. They know they can’t win in any other form of attacks, and now they’re going to sue us out of our rights. That’s the only thing left they have. Teddy Nappen 11:20 And I also love this one, too. He also spearheaded with the SAFE office to install an app for legal swatting, essentially. This comes from New Jersey Health and News, which, that’s the whole goal. The app will be available for download on mobile devices. It allows you to submit anonymous reporting. Youth and Families can anonymously request help for mental health issues, housing and food security, domestic violence. There it is. Among other concerns, the initial builds the existence of the NJ DOH school-based infrastructure already providing the opportunity to New Jersey’s highest need districts by connecting with existing youth family wellness programs currently in New Jersey school district safe. New Jersey will become a key element of the continuum service provided by the new NJ DOH, aimed at keeping students, staff and families safe. Teddy Nappen 12:17 What does that mean? Now, you have anonymous reporting where someone can say something. Oh, a kid disagrees with his father and downloads the app. He writes that my father is a gun owner, and we had an argument. And now you submit that and, boom, Red Flag. That’s how they do it. They want to make it easy because that’s what they do. That’s what they want to do. To create this legalized swatting. And they always tie it to “stop school violence” or to “improve school safety”. They always highlight that. You know, I’m waiting for when these app, when they actually can see the abuse that Page 3 of 6 comes into play and see the messages that are actually posted on there. Because what? Someone says that, and you’re just taking the word from an anonymous post from them, and that destroys lives. Teddy Nappen 13:19 We’ve seen this time and time again. We’ve seen people where, you know, the domestic violence is the he annoyed me or he threw pretzels at me. That level of domestic violence. And that’s how lives are destroyed. That’s how rights are destroyed, are taken. And this is what Platkin’s goal. This is what he wants to do. And you see that where the whole game is that they’re trying to aim for. They want to sue our rights into oblivion. And God forbid you are ever in a moment where you need to use your firearm for self-defense. Because that’s the only thing else they can do. They’ll take you to court, and more than likely, they’ll lose. But they don’t care. They’ll destroy your life. They’ll tote you out there and turn you into Daniel Penny or Kyle Rittenhouse, trying to destroy your character when they were both fully justified in their actions and proven not guilty. It’s something that definitely the fight goes on. Always, when it comes to these individuals. Teddy Nappen 14:25 So, I think we need a cheerier note on when you are carrying and you need to prep yourselves. You guys should go out to our buddies at WeShoot. WeShoot offers the classes to get your CCARE certifications so you can get your New Jersey Permit to Carry. WeShoot is a range in Lakewood, New Jersey. They have fantastic facilities with great training and a great pro shop. They have all kinds of deals and specials. We love WeShoot. That’s where myself and my father go and where we got our Certifications. Just go there and mention Gun Lawyer, and you’ll be treated like royalty. And if you don’t mention Gun Lawyer, you’ll still be treated like royalty. Because they’re the best. WeShootusa.com is their website with beautiful photos, and you don’t want to miss the WeShoot girls that are posing with gorgeous guns. And those the guns that they have, that you can buy, and they have great deals, great sales. They can not only sell you the guns, but also teach you how to effectively use them. Check out weshootusa.com. WeShoot is conveniently located in Lakewood, New Jersey, right off the Parkway. You’ll be glad you did it. Teddy Nappen 15:40 And again, going at the legality of currently fighting the good fight against the gun rights oppressors and laws that are in New Jersey. Let’s talk about our friends at the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. ANJRPC just had a decision in federal court where the Appellate Court gave a mixed win at the moment. But, of course, the fight isn’t over. We’ll call it a partial victory regarding “sensitive places”, the Carry Killer bill, essentially what the status quo is at the moment has been maintained. You can still carry in your vehicle with the carjacker protection law that has still been enjoined. You can conceal carry loaded on your person in your vehicle with a New Jersey Permit to Carry. That is still enjoined. And you can do that because, remember the Carry Kill Bill tried to prevent that. You can still go on your property, private property, as long as it’s open to the public and not otherwise a “sensitive place”. Teddy Nappen 16:40 We lost a little bit in terms of filming locations, in terms of movie filming, and in terms of transporting on public transportation. You’re going to have to have a gun case to unload, etc. if you’re going to be riding the bus or the train. That’s still been enjoyed. You can still, you going into. However, interestingly, they found that the $200 fee that was $50 portion that goes to the State was unlawful. Unlawful because it was to the VCCB, which is the Victims Crime Compensation Board. Under case law, you cannot have a fee for a licensing not go to an actual regulatory activity. That is the purpose of the fee. That has been Page 4 of 6 knocked out. So, now the price for the New Jersey Carry Permit is $150, and if you live in any of those towns that are refunding it, such as Englishtown, which was one of the first started, we’re seeing refunding their $150. So, you can actually get the Carry Permit in New Jersey for free. And the fight continues. This is just one step that we go along challenging the Second Amendment oppressionists legislation that they lay upon, that they lay upon us. And the Association is at the forefront. They are the spearhead. They are fighting for your rights. Make sure you are a member anjrpc.org. That is anjrpc.org. Teddy Nappen 18:21 And why not? I will shamelessly plug my father’s book, which is New Jersey Gun Law. It is the Bible of New Jersey gun laws. You can get your copy of New Jersey Gun Law at EvanNappen.com, and you’ll be glad you did it. Because you can keep yourself out of the Gun Owner Gulag by familiarizing yourself with the various rights and issues that are, that keep coming up in New Jersey. It’ll help you navigate the complexity of the laws and all the traps that have been laid out by the gun rights oppressionists who try to trip you up and turn you into a criminal. You’ll need to be a defender instead of a victim, especially since the police have no duty to protect you. And now you know the book. You’ll be glad you got it. Go to EvanNappen.com, and you’ll see the big orange book. Order it today, and when you get it, scan the front cover. Make sure you get into the private subscriber base. You’ll have immediate access to the archives so your book stays up to date. We’ll be sending out updates, and you can download the 2025 Comprehensive Update that includes a new standalone chapter on “sensitive places”, where you can or cannot carry. So, check it out today. Teddy Nappen 19:45 And with that Press Checks. I don’t know if you guys have been seeing this online, and I just thought it was hilarious. I think we need a bit of levity. The Democrat nominee known as Mikie Sherrill, I love this, went on a podcast interview. (https://www.shorenewsnetwork.com/virginia-native-mikie-sherrill-says- nobody-likes-gross-pork-roll-in-new-jersey/) They were doing a fluff piece about New Jersey. Just a highlight. She’s Virginia-born Congresswoman Mikie Sherrill, and she goes on there. And then, of course, New Jersey asks the question, hey, Taylor ham or pork roll? So, she says, Taylor ham. First of all, she just violated federal law by calling it Taylor ham. It’s not Taylor ham. It’s pork roll. That was our most popular episode here on Gun Lawyer. But what she added, followed up with, that is hilarious. She went and said, who eats pork roll? Not me. I think that’s gross. I don’t even know what it is. Teddy Nappen 20:40 Oh, my God. You are running for the New Jersey Governor. I mean, it’s the state sandwich. It’s pork roll. The disconnect on this woman to say that I don’t like pork roll. Pork roll is gross. Just how tone deaf do you have to be? I mean, no wonder it’s so close where it’s 43/43. Like that would knock a good chunk of people out of there. She doesn’t even know what it is. You know what it is. It is the taste of freedom, the last bit of freedom that is in New Jersey when you bite into a pork roll, egg and cheese on a hard roll. That sandwich with just a little bit of ketchup. Gotta add the ketchup. Just adds to the flavor. You’ve got to do it. That sandwich is very symbol and hope that is in New Jersey. And she says, oh, it’s gross. And of course, her opponent, Jack Ciattarelli, jumped on it. Where he says, I do. And holding, sure enough, the pork roll, egg and cheese on a hard roll. I didn’t see the ketchup, though, but I won’t hold that against him. He says, you can call it Taylor ham or pork roll. Look, I won’t hold it against him. He should just call it pork roll. But I tell you this right now, if he’s listening, if your campaign is listening to this, here’s your ad. “Mikie doesn’t like it.” Just bumper stickers up and down. Mikie doesn’t like it, and show a picture of a pork roll. That is an effective advertisement. You know, Trump had “Kamala’s for Page 5 of 6 they/them, I’m for you.” Mikie doesn’t like it. Just put that everywhere, and that will win you the day. What are the ultimate like political befuddles? How can you say pork roll is gross when you’re running for the governorship of New Jersey? Teddy Nappen 22:40 So, we will end with the GOFU, which is the Gun Owner Fuck Up. This is something I’m highlighting as more of a practical rule, count your bullets. What do I mean by that? Whenever you have to take out your firearm and unload, when you’re D gunning, or if you’re traveling, I highly recommend having one of those ammo cases. So, you can check your ammunition and see the count. Because we’ve had too many people where they go to the range or go somewhere and they have loose ammunition that they didn’t know fell out of their mag, which happens. It happens sometimes. And then, you know, he’s pulling up to a school, and the loose round falls out the car. It just creates a whole issue right there, and you’re setting yourself up for the landmine that is New Jersey. Count your bullets, and always check your mags. Make sure you have an accurate count. Okay? That is something that you need to do. Because if you’re not accurate, loose ammunition, bullets fall out, randomly found in pockets, found in suitcases when you go into the airport. Count your ammunition. And with that, this is Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals honest citizens. Speaker 2 24:07 Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state. Page 6 of 6 Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S3 E259_Transcript About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets. Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News. As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists. He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America. Email Evan Your Comments and Questions  [email protected] Join Evan’s InnerCircleHere’s your chance to join an elite group of the Savviest gun and knife owners in America.  Membership is totally FREE and Strictly CONFIDENTIAL.  Just enter your email to start receiving insider news, tips, and other valuable membership benefits.   Email (required) *First Name *Select list(s) to subscribe toInnerCircle Membership Yes, I would like to receive emails from Gun Lawyer Podcast. (You can unsubscribe anytime)Constant Contact Use. Please leave this field blank.var ajaxurl = "https://gun.lawyer/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php";

  Episode 258-How to Protect Your House of Worship Also Available OnSearchable Podcast Transcript Gun Lawyer — Episode 258 Transcript SUMMARY KEYWORDS Supreme Court case, Wolford vs. Lopez, sensitive places, New Jersey law, carry permit, church security, stun gun, pepper spray, gun violence, anthropomorphic traits, Second Amendment, gun rights, gun laws, gun storage, GOFOU. SPEAKERS Teddy Nappen, Evan Nappen, Speaker 2 Evan Nappen 00:15 I’m Evan Nappen. Teddy Nappen 00:17 And I’m Teddy Nappen. Evan Nappen 00:19 And welcome to Gun Lawyer. So, I received a letter that I want to talk about that has an important issue in these times. But before I even get to that, I just want to make an announcement. The Supreme Court of the United States just accepted a gun case. So, this is very exciting because we’re now going to get another Supreme Court decision. This case is the Wolford versus Lopez (U.S. Supreme Court Docket No. 24-1046) out of Hawaii, which will most likely impact New Jersey as well. (https://www.scotusblog.com/cases/case-files/wolford-v-lopez/) Because the key issue here is “sensitive places”, specifically, Hawaii’s sensitive place law that requires express permission from a property owner to carry a handgun on private property that is open to the public. Evan Nappen 01:15 Now, New Jersey has that same type of sensitive place. However, in New Jersey, we won on that one in the court challenge so far in which the requirement that originally stated you had to have permission before you went on any private property, whether open to the public or not. New Jersey split it and said, no, if it’s open to the public, you don’t need that prior permission or a sign hanging on the building that says, we love guns or, you know, come on in. But in Hawaii, the court upheld actually needing permission from a property owner for property that is open to the public. So, for example, in Hawaii, if you have a carry license, you can’t walk into a 7-11 with your gun unless you have expressed permission to go on that private property that’s open to the public. In New Jersey, that is not the case. In New Jersey, you can go into 7-11, but you can’t go into private property that is not open to the public. So, if you’re going to visit your friend, well, your friend better give you permission before you carry your gun there. Page – 1 – of 8 Evan Nappen 02:33 But what makes this exciting is that the Court, hopefully, in addressing this issue will give us a framework to evaluate other sensitive places, and it may very well have the impact of annihilating most, if not all, of New Jersey’s sensitive places, at least with a test to test their constitutionality. And by the way, the Hawaii challenge is broad and also in their sensitive places, banned guns on beaches, parks, and restaurants that serve alcohol, just like New Jersey has. So, we’ll see how far the Supreme Court goes in its analysis and if it sets up a framework for challenging sensitive place laws that we’re currently in the fight with the State of New Jersey. You know, our great state Association, the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol clubs, has the ongoing federal litigation challenging New Jersey’s Carry Killer bill, and this should be of great benefit in our fight for Second Amendment rights. Now. Teddy Nappen 03:46 Out of curiosity, if for the sake of argument, Saint Justice Thomas is listening to Gun Lawyer, what would be the best frame? Evan Nappen 03:58 Well, that is a very difficult question as to how they will structure the test. Now, one thing that would be just awesome is, but I don’t think it would fly necessarily, is they just say, hey, these are the only sensitive places that are sensitive places, and make it crystal clear that none of the others count. But I don’t think they’re going to do that. They’re probably going to try to structure some type of test and that’s something that we’re going to have to wait and see. I can’t even put forward a test at this time that would cut the bill, but that’s why the Supreme Court Justices get the big bucks. And let’s hope they put a test out there that is makes it pretty narrow as to where our rights get restricted. So, we’ll see how that works. Evan Nappen 04:52 But in a similar vein, we have a letter here, and this letter is from Chuck. And what Chuck says is, is it legal to carry and use a stun gun or pepper ball dispensing air gun? I have a concealed carry (permit) but am considering other options. We are in the process of a Church security assessment, and I was thinking this and pepper spray would be a good option, less expensive, requiring less training and risk, if used in a less than appropriate manner. As a note, I enjoy your podcast weekly, and I’m a U.S. Law Shield member. Thank you and Peace. Okay, Chuck, thanks. So, as far as the stun gun and/or pepper ball deal, we’re still stuck under the current case law that makes it a problem to preemptively arm yourself for self-defense outside the home with a stun gun or pepper ball type device. You can possess them, and you can have them in your home, but not outside your home. And here we’re talking about in a Church. So, unfortunately, until we get it acknowledged officially in a case, I can’t advise just carrying those around. You have a problem under N.J.S. 2C:39-6, and it is subsection d. specifically, regarding preemptively arming oneself for self-defense outside the home. So, beware of that. Now on pepper spray, you would be allowed to carry three quarters of an ounce or less, which is a rather small container. That is the only pepper spray that’s exempted. Evan Nappen 06:45 But if you’re going to talk about church security, and we want to talk about lethal security, can you carry your handgun at your house of worship, whether it’s a church, a synagogue, mosque, whatever? Can Page – 2 – of 8 you do that? And the answer is yes. Houses of worship are not a sensitive place under New Jersey’s Carry Killer law. So, you are allowed to, at least you’re not prohibited from having your legal carry gun that you have a permit for at house of worship. If you participate in that house of worship’s security, that’s up to you, but you would be allowed to carry your gun. However, the danger, or the trap you have to watch out for is, since many houses of worship also happen to have schools – Sunday school, Saturday school, whatever the school is, where it’s part of that facility, then that section that is the school takes on the “sensitive place” designation of a prohibited sensitive place for a school. So, if there’s a separate part of the building or a separate room where the school is, but in the general congregation area, that’s not a school ground, you can carry there. But you can’t go into the school part. Evan Nappen 08:17 So, if the security team wants to be able to lawfully carry in the part of the house of worship that is a school, then we have to overcome two prohibitions. One is New Jersey’s sensitive place prohibition, but the other is a law that is under N.J.S. 2C:39-5.e.. This also can set a trap for the unsuspecting just basically dealing with any school property. So, New Jersey sensitive place says you can’t have it. You can’t carry have your gun into a school. However, if you pull into a parking lot of a sensitive place, New Jersey says, oh, well, you can unload it, lock it, unloaded in a box in your car, and you’re okay if you do that. However, that would satisfy, even though that would satisfy the “sensitive place” prohibition at a school, it does not satisfy the second and other prohibition, which is found under 2C:39-5.e. And what that says is, any person who knowingly has in his possession any firearm in or upon any part of the buildings or grounds of any school, college, university or other educational institution, without the written authorization of the governing officer of the institution, is guilty of a crime. So, if you park on the grounds of the school, even to pick up your child or to go into the school and you use the exemption found under “sensitive places”, it will not cover you for the other school property prohibition. So, be wary. It is a trap. It can be a big GOFU. Evan Nappen 10:32 But let’s say you’re in the Church and you want to have your security team be able to go into the school. Well, there is a way to work around that. So, as you can see, as we just read, if there’s permission, written authorization of the governing officer of the institution, then you would overcome the 39-5.e. prohibition. However, how do you overcome the sensitive place prohibition? Because now we’re talking not just being in the parking lot, but we’re talking about actually being in the school itself, within the house of worship. Well, for that, we go to the sensitive place law, which you’ll find under N.J.S. 2C:58-4.6 and go there to subsection e. And what it says is, nothing in this act shall be construed to prohibit the holder of a valid and lawfully issued permit, in other words, a carry permit, who is lawfully authorized to provide security at a place enumerated in those sensitive places from carrying a firearm, whether openly or concealed, provided that the authorization is set forth in writing, and only to the extent permitted by the entity responsible for security at the place in question. Evan Nappen 12:03 So, if you get written authorization covering you for the first prohibition that we talked with and then if you get that written authorization that can cover you here, there’s one added thing you have to do. You have to be able to be lawfully authorized to provide security. So, who’s lawfully authorized to provide Page – 3 – of 8 security in New Jersey? Those that have a SORA (Security Officer Registration Act) card. (https://nj.gov/njsp/private-detective/sora-help.shtml) If you’re on the church or synagogue or mosque House of Worship security team and you want to fully have the exemptions apply to you, you’re going to need to have SORA card and your carry permit. You can then be exempted with the written authorization, as we’ve discussed, and it will give you the ability to have the full access to those grounds without being in violation of either school or other sensitive place prohibitions. So, thanks for a great question, Chuck. Evan Nappen 13:15 I also have a letter here, and this is from Jay. Jay says, I listen to your blogs regularly. I want to really thank you for the service you provided guarding our constitutional rights. I had two questions, but he actually has three questions. So, I don’t know, but we’ll do all three. Number One – are cross shoulder straps allowed as a holster for concealed carry in New Jersey? So, I’m assuming what you mean by cross shoulder straps, meaning a shoulder holster. You know, the rig that you carry essentially under your arm, and it has the straps that you put both your arms through. Some are made even just for a one arm through where you have it. And the answer to that would be yes, as long as the holster itself stays concealed and qualifies as a holster that covers the trigger and the body of the firearm and secures it properly. As long as the holster part does that and you have it concealed, then having it in a shoulder holster, we’ll just generally use that term, would be fine. It’s the holster itself that has to meet the criteria to be a legal holster. And then, of course, you have to keep it concealed. So, keep that jacket on over that shoulder holster. Evan Nappen 14:38 Two, it says private residences in New Jersey with no sign saying firearms prohibited, and the answer, as I discussed previously, is no. If it’s a private residence with no sign, you’re going to have to get, you know, consent verbally, or else you’re not allowed even if you’re invited into the private residence. The prohibition on private property that’s not open to the public is still in effect. And then the other question is, are trigger locks considered locks? What about a trigger lock in a gun safe? Well, trigger locks are locks. But the question really is, if your gun has a trigger lock, is that the same as having it in a locked container? No, because there the container itself has to be locked. So, if you’re using a trigger lock, yeah, that can provide that your gun is locked. But what is often found in these exemptions is the need not just to have it locked, but to have it in a locked container. That’s what’s going to give you the maximum coverage, and that’s the point. So, if you want to have a trigger lock and have it in a locked container, feel free. If you want to have it locked in your safe, okay, you can have a trigger lock on the gun in your safe. But the trigger lock itself, generally speaking, is not going to get you the exemptive coverage that you’re most likely looking for. Evan Nappen 16:11 Now, here’s something that caught my attention that I found to be very interesting. This was an article in AmmoLand, and I really like it because it actually gave me an argument about something that has been bothering me and that we’ve discussed before. This is an article called “Why Gun Grabbers Say ‘Gun Violence’ Instead of Addressing Real Problems” by Dan Wos. (https://www.ammoland.com/2025/09/why-gun-grabbers-say-gun-violence-instead-of-addressing-real- problems/) Now this is an excellent point, and I want you all to let this sink in. You know, we’ve talked Page – 4 – of 8 about the propaganda use of the term “gun violence” and how it’s really “criminal violence” and how it’s a propaganda term. But what I really, really, like about this article is it took it to another level, which really kind of gave me a bit of an epiphany here. So, I really want to thank Dan for pointing this out. Evan Nappen 17:09 Let me read a quote here from this article. “To vilify guns, the political left has made it a point to attach human traits to firearms, for the purpose of animating them. They do this as often as possible. They understand that when a human element is involved, causality and intention can be used for emotional leverage. In other words, by attaching the word ‘violence’ to the word ‘gun’ and attaching the word ‘assault’ to the word ‘rifle’, the anti-gunner can peddle the notion that the firearm has behavioral tendencies.” Brilliant, brilliant. That’s exactly it. In other words, what the antis are doing is anthropomorphic. (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anthropomorphic) They are acting and creating anthropomorphic qualities to a gun. So, when we’re talking about something being anthropomorphic, we’re talking about giving something human characteristics or traits that it wouldn’t have. Evan Nappen 18:25 Children love anthropomorphic cartoons, talking bears, talking rabbits, etc. Bears and rabbits don’t talk, but if you give them human qualities, they do. That is a form of anthropomorphic trait, giving right there. Giving it the human element. So, by doing that to the term “violence” and taking that term “violence” and attaching it to a “gun”, guns are not violent. People are violent. Violence is a human attribute, not a gun attribute. Guns don’t go around acting violent. People do. So, this is a brilliant part. The same with so-called “assault firearms” in New Jersey. Firearms don’t assault anyone. People assault. So, this is the trick. This is the propaganda tactic. This is a technique used by the Second Amendment oppressors to use the anthropomorphic term. And when they do, folks, call them out on it. I know from now on I will. Because once you can identify the propaganda technique, once you can call them out on it, you cut them off at the knees. Tell them – do not add human characteristics to an inanimate object. That is false and a lie, and you’re treating us as children by trying to make bears talk. That’s not how it works. Excellent point. Keep it in mind when dealing with those propaganda terms put out by the Second Amendment oppressors. Evan Nappen 20:19 And now let me mention our good friends at WeShoot. So, WeShoot is range in Lakewood, where Teddy and I both shoot. An indoor range, and a great place. We love WeShoot. And this week WeShoot has some really great specials. They’re offering the SIG Sauer P320 Spectre Comp Blackout. I’ve got to tell you, folks. This is one really cool looking gun. You’ve got to see what this Spectre Comp Blackout looks like. It’s really hot. I’m digging it. Definitely. And they have it at WeShoot. And it is a showstopper. It has an integrated compensator, laser-engraved grip, and full blackout finish. It’s built for performance and style. They also have a beautiful Smith & Wesson 640, that’s the J-frame, but it’s in .357 mag. It’s stainless. It is simplicity. It is one of my favorite pocket rockets, and this one is really beautiful. It has engraving and a gorgeous grip. Check out that Smith 640 that WeShoot has. They’re also offering a Riley Defense RAK47. It’s an American-made AK with forged trunnions, wood furniture, and that iconic 7.62 by 39 punch. And it is New Jersey compliant. Of course, it is. You can have a New Jersey compliant AK, because that’s the only guns that WeShoot would ever sell. They are completely Page – 5 – of 8 compliant under New Jersey law. So, check out those guns at WeShoot. You can go there, and you can get some great range time in. Or get some awesome training. It is the place where I got my certification, and Teddy got his certification. You can get your certification. Check out WeShoot, conveniently located right off the Parkway. It is really a fantastic range, and I know you’ll love it. Check out their website at weshootusa.com. Evan Nappen 22:26 I also want to mention our great state association. Like I said, they’re battling right now in that case on the Carry Killer challenge. They are also challenging the so-called assault firearm law. That is a term actually in New Jersey law, believe it or not. A term in New Jersey law that has given human characteristics to a gun. It’s in our statutes, making talking bears as a prohibition. That’s right, that’s what New Jersey’s done. They’ve done it as well, when you think about it, with ghost guns. Whoo. Well, what’s a ghost? A ghost is a human spirit. Let’s give it human spirit ghost characteristics like Casper. Back to childhood cartooning to grab that emotional response. Once you see the light on this, it’s clear how the antis play this game. But our state Association is on it. They are absolutely on it. We are fighting the good fight, and we’re making progress. So, you need to be a member of the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. Make sure that you are go to anjrpc.org. Go to anjrpc.org. Join today and be a member. Evan Nappen 24:01 And let me mention, make sure I do, my book, New Jersey Gun Law. It’s the Bible of New Jersey gun law. Make sure you get and have my book. It’ll help you navigate through the treacherous waters of New Jersey gun laws. They constantly lay out potential GOFUs and other traps to disenfranchise us of our gun rights and to continue the movement of gun rights oppression. Don’t fall for it. Protect yourself. Get a copy of my book. Just go to EvanNappen.com and order your copy today. You’ll be glad you did. It’s over 120 topics, all Question and Answer. Made easy to understand. That’s how I wrote it. It’s a labor of love, folks. Get your copy today. Teddy, what do you have for us? Teddy Nappen 24:52 Well, as we know, Press Checks are always free. And anytime you hear where the anti-gunners try to run cover, and they say, we don’t want to take your guns where. No, that’s not what we want to do. That’s not what we want. It’s always common sense. They always sell it with common sense. Well, if you ever want to look towards the future, if the Left were ever left with unvetted power, where they had, you know, the Supreme Court, they had the house, they had the presidency. What would that look like? Look to Canada. They have just kicked off and are actually disarmament. Going through. They finally did it. The Mad Men. They established the program where they’re tackling assault style firearms, even though the list is about over 1500 types of guns. So, practically anything that falls under assault type firearms, they are now going through and doing mandatory. I love, I love the term. They always do. It’s a voluntary program. Although if you do not participate, you will be unable to seek compensation, and you will have to dispose of the prohibited firearm by exporting, deactivating or turning them into police without compensation. But it’s voluntary. It’s just quite disgusting. And this is right off of the Canadian website of the public safety aspect of their, which, you know, it’s Canada state run. (https://www.canada.ca/en/public-safety-canada/news/2025/09/government-of-canada-moves-forward- with-the-assault-style-firearms-compensation-program-for-individual-firearms-owners.html) From the Page – 6 – of 8 BC Firearms Academy in Canada, they list off the wonderful price ranges they offer for firearms if you turn it in. Evan Nappen 26:48 I’m sure it’s quite generous, huh? Teddy Nappen 26:50 Oh, absolutely. So, if you have a tactical style .22 rifle, it’s about $150 to $300. Pistol, caliber carbines, tactical rim fire, or certain shotguns, that is $400 to $800. For a high range being AR-15 variants, Ruger Mini 14s, or other military-style semi automatics, it’s about 1000 to 1052. And in the special cases of Alexander Arms off, burn off, burnt. Evan Nappen 27:34 Yeah, well, Alexander Arms is a manufacturer, yes. Teddy Nappen 27:39 I don’t know this particular gun that they’re referencing. They said, you must call the program and we’ll determine compensation. But what they have from their ranges, it goes up to $1,520 max. Evan Nappen 27:54 Wait, remember, that’s in Canadian dollars. Teddy Nappen 27:56 I know. Monopoly money, so it is less. Evan Nappen 27:58 Oh, yeah. Well, it is not surprising. It’s really a shame, and they keep running these gun boondoggles. Like their registration scheme they spent billions on and then trashed it. And I bet you a number of the Provinces are not going to stand for it, the conservative provinces that actually want to even try to have Canadians have their so-called rights. But man, one thing to be thankful for is that we’re not there yet. Although they’re trying to do it in America as well. Believe me, if the gun rights oppressionists had their way, they would try to do it here. And I’m sure they’ll try to point to Canada, as they do Australia, for the same and the formerly Great Britain. You know, this is what they do. So, we’ve got to keep an eye on what they do around the world. But, of course, we’re here, and the one thing is, what we’re blessed with, which none of these other countries have, is an actual Second Amendment right, which is a guarantee of our right to keep and bear arms. Evan Nappen 29:19 Hey, let me tell you about the GOFU. This week’s GOFU is from a case that’s actually in the news. This is right out of nj.com. Bergen County SWAT team called to New Jersey hospital after man pulls out handgun. (https://www.nj.com/bergen/2025/10/swat-team-called-to-nj-hospital-after-man-pulls-out- handgun.html) Well, what happened here? The hospital in Bergen County was placed on lockdown after a man entered the intake area with a handgun. And guess what he did? He took out his gun. “Had removed a handgun from his person and slammed it on a table.” Slammed it, folks. Yeah, right. He Page – 7 – of 8 slammed it. The hospital was placed on a divert status and a shelter-in-place order was implemented. Well silver, yeah. So, what? Bergen Swat. Yeah, Bergen SWAT and every and guess what? This man removed his nine millimeter from his holster during intake prior to a physical exam. And it says right in the article, “Officers later determined the man had a carry permit, but he failed to produce proof.” He had one, but he’s charged under New Jersey sensitive locations. Evan Nappen 30:40 Okay, look, folks. Medical facilities are a sensitive location. You can’t bring your gun there. So, he brought his gun there, and then he took it out. I guess even we could speculate that he thought maybe it would be best just to remove it so that it wouldn’t be a problem. But that’s not what you do. And then, of course, when police come, you’re required to show your permit, and if you don’t have your permit on you, that itself is an offense in New Jersey. So, now he’s charged with sensitive place violation, a third degree. He’s looking at up to five years in State Prison, and he’s charged with the failure to have his permit on him, which is disorderly person defense. He’s looking at up to six months in county jail. So, it’s a GOFU. Evan Nappen 31:31 So, what do you do if you end up where you realize you’re in a sensitive place and you shouldn’t have your gun? Make an excuse and get out. Get out and secure it properly. Don’t go pulling it out in the sensitive place. Talk about a total GOFU. Now all you’ve done is create enormous problems for yourself, and it is a classic GOFU. Don’t think there’s going to be anybody being reasonable here. You need to know the sensitive places. You have to be completely conscious about where the sensitive places are. And if you find yourself that you happen to be in one, take the remedial action. Get out and lock it in your car. Every one of your cars, if you have a gun and you carry the carry, better have a lock box in it. You better have one. It’s part of your gear, your permanent travel gear in your vehicle, so that you can secure your gun properly under sensitive place. If you end up going to a restaurant and you see they’re serving alcohol there, whoops. Get back to your car and secure it. And keep your mouth shut. You have a Fifth Amendment right against self- incrimination. So, don’t be stupid. And that’s what GOFUs are, unfortunately. Based a lot on ignorance. Evan Nappen 33:05 This is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens. Speaker 2 33:17 Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state. Page – 8 – of 8 Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S3 E258_Transcript About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets. Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News. As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists. He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America. 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  Episode 257-“86” the 4473 Also Available OnSearchable Podcast Transcript Gun Lawyer — Episode 257 Transcript SUMMARY KEYWORDS Second Amendment, gun laws, opposition research, non-binary, 4473 form, background check, gun violence, mental illness, gun rights, ATF, National Shooting Sports Foundation, straw purchases, gun control, sensitive places, New Jersey gun law. SPEAKERS Evan Nappen, Speaker 2, Teddy Nappen Evan Nappen 00:15 I’m Evan Nappen. Teddy Nappen 00:17 And I’m Teddy Nappen. Evan Nappen 00:19 And welcome to Gun Lawyer. So, as many of you know, we do what is called oppo research, opposition research. We not only review continuously, just probably a dozen every day of various aggregate news sites and services related to firearms, both pro-Second Amendment rights, and, of course, those that are oppressors of our Second Amendment rights. And one of the key oppressors is Bloomturd’s organization “Everytown” and their mouthpiece, “The Trace”. However, The Trace, and I have to say often to their credit, does have stories that, although are completely slanted to supporting gun rights oppression, often reveal very important things that are not revealed on the pro-gun rights sites. Evan Nappen 01:25 It is very interesting, and that is what I want to talk about today, because the trace had a very important story. Of course, it shows the dichotomy on the left, and it demonstrates, of course, left hypocrisy and gun rights oppressor hypocrisy. But nonetheless, this is an article from The Trace by Will Van Sant, and the title is, “Buying a Gun Is About to Get More Complicated for Nonbinary People”. (https://www.thetrace.org/2025/09/gun-background-check-nonbinary-trump-atf/) Now, we’ve discussed this very sensitive and complicated issue of trans, what the oppressors like to call gun violence. So, how about trans gun violence? You want to add that to it? No, no. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Yeah, right. Because it has nothing to do with either of those two prefaces? It has to do with criminal violence, doesn’t it? But once they’ve stepped into this slippery slope and we start putting things into identifiable groups and using propaganda terms like gun violence, well this is what happens. Evan Nappen 02:40 And so, of course, now the left is getting their ox gored, yeah, which essentially is their entire trans agenda. And whether you are in favor of that agenda or against that agenda, it doesn’t matter in terms Page – 1 – of 12of this discussion. Because what we see is what is seriously the bigger picture, and that is our Second Amendment rights. And although the case can be made that there’s greater mental illness amongst trans, as I’ve talked about from the official studies through these Government agencies that look at it, that there is that factor, it still doesn’t mean that, as a group, anybody should end up prohibited. And of course, my personal Second Amendment belief is that nobody should be prohibited. As a matter of fact, if you want to get right down to it, I don’t think we should have any gun laws. That’s right. None. Other than for unlawful use. That’s right. Put it back the way it was meant to be under the Second Amendment. That’s it. Use a gun to commit a crime, to do something wrong, what we call a malum in se offense, something evil within itself. Then that is the crime. Anything else is a mallum prohibitum. Evan Nappen 04:05 Now I get it. I get it. Because we don’t live in that utopia of being able to go back to actual pure freedom, God forbid. So, we’re in this situation where there is an attempt to in our society that loves to sue all the time. We need to protect gun dealers. So, oddly and interestingly, the National Instant Check System (NICS) and essentially even the gun form itself. And, of course, PLCAA (Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act). These are all designed to protect gun dealers. Now, on one hand, you should say, why should guns even be required to be licensed to be sold by dealers? I mean, that wasn’t something that was originally required. There were no gun dealers at the time of the Second Amendment that needed a license. Or at the time of the Civil War that needed a license. But we now have this reality that we deal with, and unfortunately, it’s grown to where, in effect, weaponization by either political party can take place. Evan Nappen 05:15 In reality, the 4473, which is the federal form that you fill out to buy a gun. There is no need for it at all. Okay? We should 86 the 4473 and let me tell you why. We have this so-called background check when you buy a gun from a dealer. Why do you have to fill out any form at all? Why can’t you just show your Government-approved identification, which is normally a driver’s license, and then run the NICS check. You’re either approved or denied. Why do we have to fill out a form? Why do we have to fill out a form with all this information, answering all these questions? Because it is a trap. It is a trap designed to catch people who apparently and often inadvertently may give a wrong answer, because it’s so complicated. Do you know whether your juvenile mental health commitment from 20 years ago is now being viewed as an involuntary commitment or not? Did you realize whether or not your juvenile delinquency conviction is somehow a disqualifier? Did you realize that the old misdemeanor offense from years ago happened to be qualified as domestic violence, so you’re actually a prohibited person? I mean, we can go on and on. And what happens is that individuals get caught in this mess when we supposedly have a system that does the check. Evan Nappen 06:54 If you want to identify the buyer, which even that, I would say, shouldn’t even be needed. Shouldn’t even be necessary to happen. But okay. If the idea is for dealers to track who is sold a gun and who’s not, if you pass the Government check and you’ve identified that you’re you, that should be all it takes. But that’s not the reality, is it? It’s not the reality at all. Instead, we have this form. This form is loaded with not only traps, but excess information that is frankly offensive in many ways. All right. So, let’s take a look at, particularly at the moment, the issue regarding how will nonbinary people now have, as The Page – 2 – of 12Trace calls, a complication, which is actually going to end up being a denial of nonbinary people, in many instances, getting a firearm. How will that happen? Well, let me explain. You see on the form, on the 4473, there, is a question that asks about your sex, and it originally was male or female, and that was it. It was based on the science, imagine that. You’re either a man or a woman. Now I know we get into the whole debate as to whether that’s righteous or not, and we don’t even have to go there. Evan Nappen 08:24 Because what further happened is that about 13 states, possibly even more, have enacted for driver’s licenses to say and have a choice of nonbinary. And what we were finding is that under the old form 4473, where you had to be male or female, individuals who had a binary on their driver’s license were denied. They were denied a gun purchase because the form required you to be either male or female, and your ID did not reveal whether you’re male or female. So, anyone with a nonbinary license indication, they were automatically denied their Second Amendment rights because the form did not include nonbinary. Now let me tell you something you may not realize. The addition of nonbinary to the 4473 did not actually necessarily happen because the gun rights oppressors said, hey, wait a minute. We have to make sure that nonbinaries can still buy a gun. No, no. It was actually the National Shooting Sports Foundation, Larry Keane specifically, according to this article, in 2018 and 2019 that requested, okay, that actually asked for. And it says here that Keane coordinated with ATF under the National Shooting Sports Foundation Annual Vegas Trade Show, which we call, of course, what you know of as the Shot Show, made inquiries and they wanted to address it. And guess what? It was added to the form. It was added to the form so that now nonbinary could, in fact, purchase firearms. Evan Nappen 10:44 Well, as you may recall, President Trump issued an Executive Order that throughout the Federal Government, references to anything about nonbinary would be eliminated. From the military to Government Employment, across the board. You’re either male or female, and the gun form is now going to not be any exception to that. Because ATF, according to this article, according to their inside folks at ATF, you know they have the gun rights oppressor moles at ATF, and what is happening is they’re going to remove nonbinary from the 4473. Therefore, we’re going to go back to the old days prior to that 2018-2019 issue. So, people are going to get denied their ability to buy a firearm again from dealers unless their driver’s license or their Government photo ID identifies as male or female. So, this appears to be happening. Evan Nappen 12:05 And so, this is really fascinating. Because now essentially what is of major concern on the Left, you know, the same folks politically behind oppressing our gun rights in The Trace, right? This is a very important issue. Look through the whole Biden administration, and you see this is now going to be a problem. Yet, it was the pro-Second Amendment rights folks that helped to get the initial change. So, this creates a really interesting political dynamic. And by the way, there is a group. I don’t know if you even realize this group exists, but it’s called the Liberal Gun Club. They’re a Left-leaning gun rights group, and their spokesman of the Liberal Gun Club is Lara Smith. According to The Trace, in an interview, she said, I don’t mean to be flippant as it sounds, but we knew, we knew they were going to try this. Now it is not just trans people, it’s people on the Left that they’re going to try and disarm or political dissidents generally. So, she’s raising this issue, which, interestingly, The Trace does say all of Page – 3 – of 12the country’s major gun rights organizations, including the National Rifle Association, the Second Amendment Foundation and Gun Owners of America. And they have to add in, of course, which sees its mission is grounded in the Christian Bible. How about they see their mission as grounded in the Constitution? Like you, folks, at The Trace should, should see it, but whatever. Condemned the reported DOJ discussions. ” I was pleasantly surprised about how quickly these big gun groups came out and said, ‘No, you can’t do this'”. But why is that? Because, of course, gun rights supporters support gun rights, and we’re not going to be hypocrites about it, right? But here’s the bigger issue. The bigger issue is that the 4473, in its entirety, needs to go. It needs to go. Why, for example, are you asked on the 4473 are you Hispanic or not? You have to either admit to your Hispanic heritage or deny Hispanic heritage. What does that have to do with anything? It has nothing. The reason for it. Teddy Nappen 14:42 Wasn’t that to combine with the whole Fast and Furious Operation? Evan Nappen 14:47 Correct! This was part of the anti-gun setup to try to make the so-called Iron Pipeline of guns going to Mexico until it blew up in their face with Fast and Furious where they actually supplied guns to cartels that ended up killing the Agent Kerry and causing havoc by guns supplied by our own Government through that entire fiasco. So, that killed their political approach to trying to ban firearms, particularly semi-automatics, because then they required rifle reporting if you buy more than one rifle, but only along the border states. And this was all part of this push. You would think that pro-Hispanic groups would say, wait a minute, you shouldn’t be discriminating about Hispanic heritage. But it doesn’t stop there. Why are you asked about race at all? Look, if you’re going to tell me that this is to identify who you are, that’s what the ID does. Your driver’s license or photographic Government ID identifies you. You don’t need any of that identification information at all. Not whether you’re male, not whether your female, not with your nonbinary, not whether you’re Hispanic, not whether you’re an, you know, Eskimo. None of that. It doesn’t matter. It’s irrelevant. If they just want to identify the person who’s acquiring the firearm for purposes of their recordkeeping in the acquisition/ disposition books, the driver’s license does it. You don’t need any form for that. And all those questions? Well, look, its real simple, folks, do we have NICS? Do we have a NICS instant check or not? Why do we go beyond that? There’s no reason for it. You should just give your license. It identifies you, if we’re even going to accept that. But okay. If that’s how we have to be, you take your license, and they identify you. They run the NICS check and either you’re approved or denied. That’s it. But that isn’t how it is. Evan Nappen 16:49 So, interestingly, there’s actually some kind of exciting news in The Trace that’s buried in this article. But again, I haven’t read this in any gun rights article, gun rights supporter article. In fact, it’s the oppressors here that reveal this. But it’s actually pretty exciting. Because what it says is that the House Subcommittee on Federal Law Enforcement says the subcommittee that the agency, by the way, through this committee, and this is in the article, is investigating necessary changes to the background check form. And they’re looking to, get a load of this, folks, amend the form so that applicants don’t unwittingly misrepresent their criminal histories. Then, in addition, remove the nonbinary option. So, whether that nonbinary option, you know, gets removed, that becomes a form of gun rights oppression, doesn’t it? On anybody who’s nonbinary and has a license that says it and then is going to be banned. Page – 4 – of 12Yet, on the other side of that coin there, or the other side of their action, apparently, will be reform, at least some reform, to the 4473, which should really be 86ed completely. But at least we’re gaining on part of that statement. Gaining some freedom and gaining some sanity, a bit of it anyway. On modifying that form so that people who may unwittingly make a statement aren’t turned into Federal felons, right? And New Jersey, yeah. Teddy Nappen 18:47 I will say, just as a question, going back to prior to the NICS. Let’s say, go back in time and you go in to buy a gun. What were you signing and filling out prior to the NICS form? What was the process? Just kind of, looking at that line. Evan Nappen 19:02 Well, prior, there was nothing. You could buy guns through the mail, prior to ’68 and all you do, they’d say, do you certify that you’re over, you know, whatever the age was 21 or 18, depending on whatever that company, you know, certifying that you’re of age and certifying that it wasn’t unlawful for you to have a gun. You simply sign that piece of paper or let them know about it, and you bought your gun. It was shipped directly to your door, just like you order anything today on Amazon, just like that. And imagine we regulate firearms that are a Constitutional right to this extreme when you can buy all kinds of things that arguably are just as dangerous in the wrong hands, maybe even more dangerous in the wrong hands. And there’s no issue with that. So, how come, when it comes to guns, something that’s a protected right, we have this. But prior to that, there was no form. There was no requirement for that, and guns could be sent through the mail. Evan Nappen 20:18 But after the Kennedys and Martin Luther King. And in ’68 when, of course, the Democrats had control of the Government, they pushed the ’68 Gun Control Act that ended mail order and created what is to this day, the Federal Firearms License as we now know it, and the form 4473. This is all, you know. It’s been modified over the years, but this is where you saw that history of it take place. So, amending that form to fix injustice in it would be a very good thing if we can’t get rid of it totally. But The Trace further says the quote because this is in response to questions. This is The Trace, I guess, doing their work. And I will give them credit for this, because I haven’t seen it in any of our aggregate pro-Second Amendment rights. It says, “The ATF is in the process of updating and simplifying the Firearms Transaction Form . . .” that’s the 4473. “to make it more concise and user-friendly for both purchasers and federally regulated gun dealers. Additionally, reviews and appropriate changes are being made to ensure consistency with the President’s Executive Order Defending Women From Gender Ideology Extremism and Restoring Biological Truth to the Federal Government.” Evan Nappen 21:55 So, whether or not you agree with the second part, and like I said, fundamentally, I don’t. Fundamentally, of course, all the major gun groups don’t agree with that second part. Yet, you can understand, I’m sure, President Trump’s position on it. But the first part of it is actually very exciting, because it needs to be amended. It needs to be made more user-friendly. It needs to have that entire revision done at a minimum. So, the first part of it is welcome news to those who support our Second Amendment rights. Page – 5 – of 12Evan Nappen 22:43 And I would also want to just point out a couple quick things that are very, very exciting. Number one, the Department of Justice has filed an amicus brief supporting the NRA and the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs, by the way, challenge to New Jersey’s ban on assault firearms and large capacity magazines. (https://www.nraila.org/articles/20250919/doj-files-amicus-brief-supporting-nra- backed-challenge-to-new-jersey-s-ban-on-assault-firearms-and-large-capacity-magazines) That’s right. The Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs, which is the state affiliate of the NRA, that legal challenge brought by the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs in conjunction with the NRA and with other pro-gun forces in New Jersey. By the way, the Department of Justice of President Trump is taking our side. Our side. For once, the Government is on the side of the Constitution of the Second Amendment. That is great, refreshing news, and very exciting. So, I am thrilled about that. Evan Nappen 23:56 This is one of the major reasons you need to belong to the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. They are the premier gun rights defenders in New Jersey. Every one of my listeners should be a member. Not only does that help us in fighting the shenanigans in Trenton with a full-time paid lobbyist on the alert for all of their Second Amendment oppression that they try to jam into us in BOHICA (Bend Over Here It Comes Again) after BOHICA, we are fighting those very vigorously, but they’re also in the courts. They’re in the courts with that very assault firearm, large capacity magazine challenge, challenging the Carry Killer bill and these others, these other violations of our rights that New Jersey has enacted. So, you want to make sure that you’re a member of our great Association, the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. Go to anjrpc.org and join today. ANJRPC.org. Evan Nappen 25:10 Let me tell you some exciting news about our friends at WeShoot. So, WeShoot is an indoor range in Lakewood, New Jersey, conveniently located off the Parkway. It’s where Teddy and I both shoot and get our training. We love WeShoot. WeShoot has some exciting news. We shoot is now BUL Armory’s, BUL Armory’s, first and only New Jersey dealer. It’s very exciting. I don’t know if you have ever seen BUL Armory products. They are Premier. They are fantastic. If you’ve ever, if you are into the 2011 format, you know, similar to the staccato. And, of course, they’re not calling it 2011 but most you know this as a 2011 where you have the higher capacity, nine millimeter, but utilizing a 1911 setup on the slide. These guns are fantastic, and they are also more reasonable than staccatos. Yet, they are excellent guns. So, I’m a big fan of any anything that shoots. I’m not saying, you know, I’m not putting down staccato. I own a couple, and I love them. But BUL Armory is really in a magnificent price competition, and they are definitely a competitor. They are doing it really, really spectacularly. And if you’ve never shot a BUL Armory firearm, you need to. They also have a line of really cool knives. And, of course, I’m into knives, too. As you know, I have to strictly limit myself. It has to shoot or cut for me to like it. And therefore, their blades are very cool. They even have fixed blades in which the handle utilizes a 1911 grip, very cool. You can check out their blades and their firearms. WeShoot is the first and only exclusive New Jersey dealer. So, get down to WeShoot, and check out the BUL Armory products. You will be amazed at how top of the line they are. They are really cool, really great. Evan Nappen 27:31 Page – 6 – of 12By the way, WeShoot also has plenty of other firearms to fit whatever your needs are. They have the Ruger Precision Rimfire, which is your ultimate .22 trainer with an adjustable stock and a free folding handguard. And of course, it is completely New Jersey compliant. So, it is a great gun. They are also have the Springfield Armory Echelon, which is a modular, striker-fired 9mm, built for duty, defense, and customization with its Central Operating Group chassis system. In other words, it has a fire control unit and operates in that manner. So, check out the Springfield. You also have the Tisas 1911DS Carry. It’s a classic 1911 design, and it has a double -capacity and modern upgrades. And these are just a few of the really cool great guns at WeShoot. And by the way, Molly is back, and she’s asking, do you want to see more of her? One of the beautiful WeShoot girls. She’s hitting targets and turning heads, and we’re all here and for it. So, there you go. Check out WeShoot’s website for beautiful pictures of guns and WeShoot girls. As a matter of fact, why don’t you go down to WeShoot and personally get acquainted with both. So check it out at weshootusa.com. WeShoot is there to help you get the training you need to get your licensing and skills, and you will find that it is a place where you are treated like family. Everyone that goes there loves it, and I know you will, too. Check out weshootusa.com. weshootusa.com. Evan Nappen 29:21 Let me also mention my book, which is New Jersey Gun Law, the Bible of New Jersey gun law. You need to have a copy of it. If you don’t, you are sorely losing out on the information that can save your rights and keep you out of jail. The book is over 500 pages with 120 topics, all in a question and answer format. Once you get the book, scan the front cover, and get on my free and private subscriber base. You will get all the alerts for law changes. You’ll be able to immediately download the 2025 Comprehensive Update, which, by the way, has a standalone chapter on “sensitive places”. It is the book that is a must have for every gun owner in New Jersey. Go to EvanNappen.com, EvanNappen.com. You’ll see the big orange book right there. Click it and you’ll have your copy in days. Teddy, what do you have for us? Teddy Nappen 30:21 Well, as you know, Press Checks are always free, and we always like to go back to looking at the various anti-gun agendas. More and more, I find that looking at their various arguments and things they push for. It’s important to go back to history and to see what was the spark, what led to the creation of their current talking points. So, we go back to everyone’s favorite anti-gun outlet, The Trace. And I love this media article. It just caught my eye, and I thought, okay, yeah, this is the ultimate. This is how they’re going to stop it. The mass shooters are going to stop the gun violence in the city of Philadelphia. Do you know what’s going to stop it, Dad? Evan Nappen 31:14 Gun violence, Teddy? Teddy Nappen 31:16 Yeah, gun violence. Do you know what’s their argument? Philly’s latest shooting prevention law is literally a sign in a window. (https://www.thetrace.org/2025/09/philly-straw-purchasing-prevention/) Evan Nappen 31:28 Page – 7 – of 12Oh, signs. They work so well. Like “Gun Free School Zones” and “No Guns Allowed Here”. Oh, every criminal will obey a sign. I mean, signs are the most powerful tool to stop crime ever invented by man. Teddy Nappen 31:45 Correct. And this sign is required in every single gun shop in Philadelphia to discourage straw purchase sales of firearms. Evan Nappen 31:55 Oh, straw. Is that like from the Wizard of Oz? You know the one of the characters, the straw, uh, Scarecrow, who’s a straw man, and he’s, you know, he’s a straw man. If it was, if a scarecrow wants to buy a gun, then straw man purchases get prohibited, right? Isn’t that how that works? Teddy Nappen 32:12 Well, the problem is, the problem is, the Scarecrow went down to the bad area of Philadelphia. When they found him, he went, oh, my head’s over there, and my body’s over here! Anyways. Evan Nappen 32:24 Right. Teddy Nappen 32:25 Just leaning off of that, it’s this whole pushed agenda where they’re requiring every single gun shop in Philadelphia to have that sign to crack down on straw purchase sales of firearms. And it got me thinking, who did this? What was the start? Who originally got this whole talking point of straw purchases? Because we’ve brought up about the famous case. Evan Nappen 32:53 It was Dorothy. Dorothy was pissed at the Scarecrow for not having a brain. Teddy Nappen 33:01 Yep, it was Dorothy. Anyways, going through, I actually pulled it up on the ATF website. (https://www.atf.gov/firearms/dont-lie-other-guy) In 2000, ATF partnered with the National Shooting Sports Foundation (NSSF) to do. Evan Nappen 33:17 Wait a minute. The same folks that got the nonbinary added to the form (4473)? That same group? Teddy Nappen 33:25 Yeah. Evan Nappen 33:26 Really, isn’t that interesting? Teddy Nappen 33:28 Page – 8 – of 12Yeah. Look, it’s one of those where seeing this is what they do. In the common sense ideology, we’d say, okay, yeah, we don’t want, we don’t want criminals to have firearms. But they. Evan Nappen 33:43 Actually, what it is, is we don’t want dealers to sell a gun to somebody that shouldn’t have it, because then the dealer gets sued out of existence by gun rights oppressors. Teddy Nappen 33:57 Yeah, and that would be, and that would be the more common sense. But even when we try to find common ground, they abuse it. To where, if you go to any of the sites, when I over here, sure enough, ATF Nashville Field Office teaming up with attorneys to crack down on straw purchases. And if you go down to Giffords or you go to any other site, what are they arguing? We need to cut down on straw purchase sales. We need a Universal Background Checks (UBC). Evan Nappen 34:29 Oh, no, it’s Universal Background Checks, which means Universal Gun Registration. And we all know where registration leads to? Confiscation and eventually extermination, as every major Holocaust had that pattern occur. Evan Nappen 34:48 We want to work with ATF. We want to work with law enforcement. And you know what? At one point, the ATF did work with dealers, and they were not anywhere near the aggressive oppressors that they became in the Biden administration. They were never wonderful. I mean, they were never great. But the last four years of the senile sock puppet was weaponization like we’ve never seen before of the ATF. And that’s the problem. Because if they get weaponized, there you go. I mean, zero tolerance. Knocking out dealers. Their mission was to eliminate every gun dealer in the United States. And then how are you going to buy a gun without any gun dealers? And since it requires the person to be licensed dealer, and they knock out licensed dealers. This is that slippery slope. Teddy Nappen 34:48 Correct. So, this is something the National Shooting Sports Foundation should not be partnered up with the ATF, which, by the way, that is a very bad look to have on your website. Teddy Nappen 36:00 Well, now you just highlighted Biden. Sure enough, right under that, is don’t lie for the other guy. They highlight the 2022 Bipartisan Safer Communities Act. (https://www.atf.gov/news/press-releases/atf-and- nssf-celebrate-25-years-partnership-dont-lie-other-guy-anti-straw-purchasing-campaign) Evan Nappen 36:11 Ohhhh. So, it was then used to pass gun control laws, too. Yeah. Isn’t that interesting? Teddy Nappen 36:20 So, and this is what it comes down to. I’m quite disgusted, like they should go, they’re literally going on there. If you go on to their website for the National Shooting Sports Foundation Real Solutions, the ATF Page – 9 – of 12and the firearm industry collab to keep firearm retail stores secure and prosecute individuals who burglarize firearm realtors and inform the public that it is illegal to purchase a firearm for someone who cannot pass a background check. (https://nssfrealsolutions.org/programs/dont-lie-for-the-other-guy/) And then go to the ATF website and they get praise from the NSSF CEO, Joe Bartozzi. If I’m saying that right. Retailers want nothing more than to keep guns out of the hands of criminals, and the don’t lie initiative has proven that. We look forward to 25 more years of their partnership. (https://www.atf.gov/news/press-releases/atf-and-nssf-celebrate-25-years-partnership-dont-lie-other- guy-anti-straw-purchasing-campaign) Are you kidding me? Evan Nappen 37:17 Oh, God. So, here’s the thing. I’m gonna let you know a dirty little secret, Teddy. It is something we’ve seen throughout the fight for our Second Amendment rights. Industry, industry, has backed gun control. Let me just give you a short little history lesson. The 1934 Machine Gun Act, the NFA that we’re fighting now with the big, beautiful lawsuit. Okay? That bill. If you go back to the original hearings, you saw Colt Auto Ordinance in favor of it passing. You saw the N R A supporting the passage of the National Firearms Act. That’s a fact, folks. As a matter of fact, if you have the book about the Armed Citizen that NRA put out, where they have all the great columns of the Armed Citizen in that book, there is actually a copy of the announcement way back in the ’30s that NRA made after the passage of the National Firearms Act, they were proud of it. They said, look, we’ve solved the gun control problem in the United States by passing this national law. Evan Nappen 38:36 Now, look, they were naive. They thought they were doing well. They thought they were doing good because of the states passing all different kind of patchwork quilt of gun laws. They thought they could solve it with one federal law and stop the states from enacting their laws. But, of course, that didn’t work. And as far as federal law was concerned, well, for little over 30 years, there wasn’t much else in federal gun law. But then ’68 comes along, and the groundwork has been laid with the foundation of the prior national gun ban, the National Firearms Act that was officially supported by the NRA back then. I don’t want to judge them by our enlightened understanding of the problems of doing that, you know, back then. But they did, and it was a naive mistake, for sure. But you had industry even then, supporting it as well. And then, guess what? The ’68 Gun Control Act. Do you know who was supporting it? Major gun makers, major gun makers. They wanted to stop military surplus guns from coming in because that was affecting their manufacturing in the U.S. They didn’t have a problem with imported handguns having to meet all kinds of other criteria, because that stopped their domestic sales. Right? You saw the ’68 Gun Control Act backed by industry. Evan Nappen 40:03 Hell, you saw the Rose Garden ceremony with (President) Clinton and Smith & Wesson there supporting it, right? That’s what they with their support. Because they thought they had the internal lock deal secured for their handgun, and this would become the basis for Smith & Wesson and others to make their money. So, they said, hey, let’s support this. And they’re supporting, again, an agenda that is gun rights oppression. So, this is something that unfortunately occurs, and even our so-called pro- gun rights organizations seem to, at times, be short sighted. Or so focused on their business interests Page – 10 – of 12and their folks that are members that have this business interest that they don’t see how it will be abused and used and taken advantage of by the gun rights oppressors. Evan Nappen 41:02 I really appreciate you pointing out us having to deal with the straw man, the straw man. Which is now, you know, another term of art, if you will. The same way they call it “gun violence” instead of “criminal violence”. They have something else now to hang their hat on, to sell their gun rights oppression agenda, and unfortunately, we helped to create that one. So, it’s a shame, but you can understand why. They had good intentions, right? But as the old saying goes about good intentions, right? It’s that road to hell. That’s what it’s paved with. Evan Nappen 41:43 So, let me tell you about this week’s GOFU. This week’s GOFU, the Gun Owner Fuck Up. And why do we talk about GOFUs? Because it is expensive lessons that gun owners learn, and it costs them their gun rights, their freedom, lots of money, and if you can learn from that, then you can be protected, and you can learn from these errors and mistakes. That’s why we talk about GOFUs. And this week’s GOFU is actually from a letter that I received from Joel. It highlights what is potentially a big GOFU. Luckily, I don’t think Joel has actually officially become a GOFU, but he highlights something that does help to create GOFUs. Let me read you his letter. Hi, Evan. I recently serendipitously, heard serendipitously that the enforceability of New Jersey gun laws changed due to recent court rulings. I didn’t hear this from the State of NJ directly, even though they have my contact info as part of my carry permit registration process. Now, you know what? That’s a good point. They know who has a carry licenses. How come a bulletin isn’t emailed, at a minimum, emailed, if not mailed, from the State to carry permit holders, laying out the case law and what is and is not a sensitive place? Do we have any official informational booklet of any type put out by our Government that explains where you can and cannot carry your handgun so you don’t get in trouble? No, of course not, because they want you to get into trouble. Evan Nappen 43:45 The only thing out there that will help you is my book, New Jersey Gun Law, and download the 2025 update that has “sensitive places” explained. Our Government doesn’t send it out, and they know, yet they know who the people are. And Joel goes on, while ignorance of the law is no excuse, is it in any way negligent of the State of New Jersey to charge me a fee to register for a permit and provide key contact information in the process without subsequently using that info to directly inform me of the ways to use my permit significantly affected by formal legal changes? Now the question is that negligent? No, you can’t sue them over that, not that I’m aware of. Is it something they should be doing? Hell yeah, they should be. But again, that’s not part of their agenda. It’s not part of what they want. They don’t want you to be, actually, a law-abiding gun owner. There’s very minimal done to that effect. And you’re right, they could easily let us know, but they don’t. Yet they should. Now maybe they’ll come out with something, because to the State Police credit, they do actually have an FAQ on their website answering many gun questions. But they don’t have any detailed FAQ on “sensitive places”. At least, if they did that in furtherance of their mission, which I’m thankful they at least have what they do have, it would help give guidance. Because law-abiding gun owners want to stay law-abiding gun owners, right? So, put it out there. Page – 11 – of 12Evan Nappen 45:19 But as far as saying, because you go into a sensitive place or didn’t know case law changes and you’re suddenly have a problem, can you then say, oh, well, New Jersey didn’t tell me about it, so I’m not guilty of it. Now that defense isn’t going to work, unfortunately. Now if New Jersey does put out official proclamation about what is and isn’t a sensitive place, then you can rely on that. And if a court ends up saying what they said was wrong, then actually, Joel, ignorance or mistake of law is a defense, a statutory defense in New Jersey, as long as you’re relying on an official statement by the government. But their failure to do it does not give an ignorance or mistake of law argument. So, that’s probably one of the other reasons they don’t want to do it, because they know then people can rely on it and would ultimately have a defense of ignorance or mistake of law. Evan Nappen 46:21 Then Joel goes on, especially at a time when court rulings can have substantial implications for legal gun owners with carry permits. At what point is the failure to directly notify registered permit holders an intentional act or omission on the part of the State? What are permit holders legal obligations to actively stay up to date with court rulings on their own? And here’s the deal. There isn’t. There is no implication for failure to notify. There’s no omission type argument by the Government. Nope. It ain’t going to fly. Permit holders obligations are to know and to obey the law. It is squarely placed on the gun owner to know all that. And so the GOFUs are ready to happen. The Government does not help in any way there on sensitive places to stop it. It is something that should be done across the board. They should be putting out all kinds of information. Look, if you want to hunt or fish in New Jersey. You can get the whole compendium right online that breaks down the laws so that you can be a lawful hunter, a lawful fisherman, a lawful trapper. Where’s that for gun owners? Where’s that for carrying your gun? Where’s the gun owner Compendium put out by the State of New Jersey for the Second Amendment exercise. It ain’t there, folks. It ain’t there. And it ain’t there because of their gun rights oppression agenda. I’m telling you. This is what we deal with every day in the practice of gun law, of individuals who are law- abiding criminals. That’s right. They’re law-abiding and turned into criminals, and they are officially victims of New Jersey gun law. Evan Nappen 48:39 This is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens. Speaker 2 48:50 Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state. Page – 12 – of 12 Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S3 E257_Transcript About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets. Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News. As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists. He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America. Email Evan Your Comments and Questions  [email protected] Join Evan’s InnerCircleHere’s your chance to join an elite group of the Savviest gun and knife owners in America.  Membership is totally FREE and Strictly CONFIDENTIAL.  Just enter your email to start receiving insider news, tips, and other valuable membership benefits.   Email (required) *First Name *Select list(s) to subscribe toInnerCircle Membership Yes, I would like to receive emails from Gun Lawyer Podcast. (You can unsubscribe anytime)Constant Contact Use. Please leave this field blank.var ajaxurl = "https://gun.lawyer/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php";

  Episode 256-Can Hunting Cost Your 2A Rights? Also Available OnSearchable Podcast Transcript Gun Lawyer — Episode 256 Transcript SUMMARY KEYWORDS Second Amendment, hunting violations, New Jersey gun laws, license suspension, Fish and Game laws, public health safety welfare, civil penalties, 450 foot rule, prohibited person, domestic violence, red flag laws, gun seizures, Association of New Jersey Rifle and Pistol Clubs, suppressors, gun storage. SPEAKERS Evan Nappen, Speaker 2, Teddy Nappen Evan Nappen 00:15 I’m Evan Nappen. Teddy Nappen 00:17 And I’m Teddy Nappen. Evan Nappen 00:19 and welcome to Gun Lawyer. So, we have an issue I want to bring to my listeners’ attention, and it has to do with the impact that hunting can have on your Second Amendment rights. Teddy Nappen 00:42 Is it the long winded debate between rabbit season and duck season? Evan Nappen 00:46 Exactly, exactly. That’s what it is. And never get into a debate with Daffy Duck if you want to save your gun rights. No, what I’m talking about is the issue in which the Second Amendment oppressors try to use everything and anything they can to disenfranchise us of our gun rights if you end up having hunting violations. Now, not only in New Jersey, if you get two violations, you lose your hunting privileges. They like to call it privileges. Although I really think hunting is a right. Many states have actually enshrined hunting rights as a right in their Constitution. Of course, New Jersey hasn’t done that. But anyway, either way, if you end up with a violation of any of the myriad of ridiculous Fish and Game laws. Some are so petty and insane you can’t even believe they’re on the books. If you get two of those, you’re going to have a mandatory license suspension of hunting and fishing and trapping privileges. Evan Nappen 02:19 And that’s bad enough, but I think one of the ramifications that people don’t realize is that hunting violations can also cost you your ability to own and possess firearms and be licensed in New Jersey to have firearms. Here’s how it works. Here’s their Gambit. So, one of the disqualifiers in New Jersey Page – 1 – of 13 under the licensing law is called Public Health, Safety, and Welfare based on character and temperament. We call it public health safety welfare. I call it the all inclusive miscellaneous weasel clause, because that’s what it is. It’s a very subjective reason that is often abused by issuing authorities. And even abused to the point, as we’ve discussed, of being racist, in which blacks are denied their gun rights using that provision at a ratio of more than two to one than whites, just on that provision alone. But that’s not where the only area of abuse comes in. They will attempt, they being the Government, will attempt to use hunting violations, and we’ve had any number of cases where they do this against your ability to be licensed under New Jersey law. Evan Nappen 03:51 So, there are some particular hunting violations that they’re very hot to pull this on, pull this lever, and other ones in the aggregate, or just depending on whether the issuing authority has a hard on for you or whatever. They will attempt to use these things against you, and you want to be aware of that problem. One of the big ones that will really cost you and is a very serious hunting violation, but remember, you can have these minor, stupid ones, too, and they add up. They’ll say you’re irresponsible as a gun owner if you have too many of these, or if your hunting license is suspended because you got hit twice for having the wrong shade of orange that you’re wearing, you know? I mean, that’s one of the offenses. It doesn’t matter, because then they’re going to say, well, you’re not following the hunting laws properly, and therefore you’re not a responsible citizen. Evan Nappen 05:05 Now, we’ve usually, though the one, the big one, one of the big ones, anyway, is under Chapter 23 which is where the hunting and fishing regs are found. And it’s (N.J.S.) 23:7-3., and it’s causing injury to property of another. “A person who, while hunting, fishing, trapping, or taking wildlife, causes or assists in causing damage or injury to real or personal property of another, including pet animals . . .” You’re liable to a civil penalty not to exceed $2,000 and that’s paid to Fish and Game and goes to their hunters’ and anglers’ fund. So they love, Fish and Game, loves the Fish and Game laws because it puts money in their coffer. So, you know, you think you’re going to work it out some way, but that’s difficult, because they’re there with their hand out, wanting to take your money. And for the first offense, by the way, you have a suspension of all license certificates. That’s for everything. Hunting, fishing, trapping, all of it, to take or possess wildlife for five years. You get a five-year suspension. For a second offense, you’re looking at revocation of all licenses and certificates permanently. So, it would be bad enough that you end up permanently losing your ability to hunt and fish. And, by the way, many states have reciprocity with New Jersey’s hunting and fishing laws. So, if you’re prohibited in New Jersey, you get prohibited in those states as well. So, be aware of that. Evan Nappen 07:07 But they then will attempt to use these things to somehow show that you’re a danger, that you’re unsafe and that you’re irresponsible. And of course, there’s Fish and Game law that’s very serious if you end up causing personal injury, even purely by accident. But if you cause personal injury, then, of course, they’re going to be all over you for that and claim that you are irresponsible and a danger, etc. So, these are areas where there’s vulnerability. Beyond even your ability to hunt, fish, trap, in New Jersey. Now the they’ll also look at what is the 450 rule. Under the 450 foot rule, New Jersey has a hunting reg that says you cannot be within 450 feet of a building or playground. And if you are within 450 feet of a Page – 2 – of 13 building or playground with a loaded firearm or a knocked arrow, then you’re looking at a problem if it’s an occupied building or a playground, and again. It’s a civil penalty for not less than 100 or more than 200 for the first offense, and not less than 200 or to 500 for a second offense. But if you are convicted of this, not only can you lose your license, but also on that second offense, again, it’s a permanent revocation. Permanent, forever of your hunting and fishing. Evan Nappen 09:16 And if you end up with a 450 for a loaded firearm, again, the State will claim that you’re a danger, that you’re irresponsible, that you are somebody who should not have a firearm at all. And if you are convicted of any of the multitude of other violations, they can put them together. They’ll look at your entire background while hunting and any of the offenses that you may have had or even just been charged with. Even if you’re not convicted, they’ll still try to use it against you and claim you’re a danger to public health, safety, and welfare. We’ve had those cases. Then as a big, big problem, and I’ve had any number of these cases, is if someone happens to be a prohibited person. Maybe they’re not even aware because they had a prior conviction, you know, decades ago. And they thought it was sealed or expunged but it wasn’t. Or they had a juvenile offense. It’s still a disqualifier. Or if they’ve had any mental health commitment. Evan Nappen 10:39 Well, if you’re caught possessing, you’re looking at not only a criminal charge of unlawful possession, which can be quite serious, but also a felon in possession, what New Jersey calls “certain persons”. Well, that has a five-year minimum mandatory period of incarceration in State Prison. So, it’s serious stuff, folks. And of course, being a convicted felon isn’t going to help your resume, and it will cause you to be a prohibited person. You lose your gun rights, become a second class citizen and all that. So, beware of that. Make sure that you’re legal to possess firearms. It seems like an obvious thing to say, but you’d be surprised how many folks fall into this trap. And the reason I say it’s a trap is that if you’re a convicted felon, you can go buy a hunting license. There’s no NICS or background check done on a hunting license. Fish and Game will gladly take your money for a hunting license, because they’re all about the money. They’ll take it. You can have a hunting license, but as a convicted felon, you just can’t hunt, particularly with a firearm or possessing other weapons to hunt. So, you can buy the license, but you can’t do the activity. But sometimes there’ll be a misunderstanding where they think, well, they gave me a hunting license, so I should be okay, right? But you’re not okay. Not only can you end up, you can end up doing serious jail time. Go ahead, Teddy. Teddy Nappen 12:26 Out of curiosity, could there be someone just, oh, there’d be, like, an individual that just do, like, going deer hunting bare handed. If that’s ever been, like a case, or not. Evan Nappen 12:37 I’ve never heard of that, and I don’t know. It’s probably, probably animal cruelty statutes would kick in over deer wrestling or something to that effect. Who knows? I wouldn’t put anything past New Jersey. Now, of course, if you bare handedly go bear hunting, I would have nothing but respect for you, but I don’t think you want to do that. This is a problem, and you need to be aware that you’re out there taking a risk when you’re hunting. Of not just losing, under New Jersey’s draconian and strict hunting laws, but Page – 3 – of 13 you’re risking as well your Second Amendment rights. And of course, they’ve gamed the system to do that very thing. Everything in New Jersey is about somehow disenfranchising us of our gun rights, about taking away people’s rights so they are not able to be gun owners, and about stealing our guns, which is why they have a multitude of ways to do gun seizures. Oh, and by the way, if that occurs where they’re looking to revoke you, they will, all the time, move to forfeit all your guns while they’re at it as well. So they’ll look to take your guns and look to take away your gun rights. This is the reason that New Jersey is a gun owners hell. Evan Nappen 14:01 And I remember, before I was even a lawyer, NRA ran an article about Lukey Schaefer in the early ’80s. Lukey was a trucker that happened to venture into New Jersey with a cased and unloaded shotgun, and he ended up getting charged on lawful possession. And I always remember that headline on the NRA article, “New Jersey is a gun owners hell.” And you know what, folks, it hasn’t changed. It still is a hell, and they’ve made it even hotter for us. And that’s why it’s very important that you be part of the fight and that you stand up for our rights. As the movement for conservative voices is increasing beyond our wild expectations, due to certain atrocities that have happened, it’s very important that we take this opportunity to fight the oppression that is New Jersey, legally, lawfully, politically. And part of the way of doing that is by joining organizations that unite us in standing up for a rights. One of the key organizations that do that is the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. Now that organization is an umbrella organization of gun clubs throughout New Jersey, and they also have individual memberships. Evan Nappen 15:44 By being a part of the Association, you’re going to get email alerts where you can push a few buttons and let your voice be heard to the legislature. You’re going to be advised about fights ongoing in the courts, challenging the Carry Killer bill, the assault firearm ban and the large capacity magazine ban. All those issues where they further attempted to oppress us and keep us as victims of New Jersey gun law. It’s your state Association that is critical in this fight. Now there are other great gun clubs and gun organizations around New Jersey. This isn’t saying that this is the only one you should belong to. Every pro-group that you believe in, no question, but you have to belong to the Association if you care about what’s going on in New Jersey. The Association has full-time paid lobbyist in Trenton, and they are really doing a great job in an extraordinarily difficult environment. So, go to anjrpc.org and make sure you join. And have your friends and family join, too, because there’s power in numbers. It’s very important that you do that. You may think, oh, I’m just one person, but you can make a difference. Evan Nappen 17:14 And as our voices are heard and responses are sent in, the legislators do consider just how much outrage and political motivation there is to oppose them and to fight them. So, they take it seriously, and we make a big showing because of the alerts that have been sent out by the Association. It really does make a difference, and we’ve seen it. Also, the Association has become a good negotiator of our rights. We’ve been able to achieve things without legislative necessity. We’ve been able to work things out with the Attorney General, such as the “no serial number” gun ban that literally banned millions of guns in New Jersey. And through efforts of the Association and my colleague and good friend, Dan Schmutter and myself and Scott Bach, who’s the Executive Director, we were able to get the Attorney Page – 4 – of 13 General to make clear that it was strictly limited to so-called, as readily understood, ghost guns only, and not all the pre ’68 guns with no serial number. Because that was legal prior to ’68 and that it didn’t apply to imported guns because they didn’t have Federal Manufacturing registrations in New Jersey. And antiques and other guns and so forth. So, it was a very important thing, literally saving millions that was done through your Association. Evan Nappen 19:00 We’ve also been able to get the criteria changed via the Attorney General for carry permits. We went from the John Wick carry requirement to CCARE, which is a reasonable course and test of your core competency, and so that individuals would qualify to get their carry permit. Again, an accomplishment by your state Association. So, those are just a few examples. But through the years, if you wonder about, you know, can you stop while you’re transporting your firearm from, say, your home to the range. Can you stop for some food? Can you stop to go to the bathroom? Can you stop to get gas? Can you stop to pick up a friend? The answer to those questions is yes, you can, as long as it’s reasonable and along the way. And why is the answer yes? Because of an Attorney General opinion that we worked out through the Association. These are all things where direct, absolute benefits can be seen by the efforts of ANJRPC. So, make sure you join and belong. Evan Nappen 20:22 And the other important thing to do is belong to a gun club or organization. Now we are good friends with WeShoot. WeShoot is an indoor range in Lakewood. It’s fantastic range, just great people. That’s where Teddy and I shoot, and we love WeShoot. They have great courses, and they have great trainers. They are offering, all the time, amazing courses in firearms and in self-defense and in even other subjects, including ham radio operation, should the stuff ever hit the fan, and you want to be able to communicate. So, they really have some great stuff. And I would highly recommend going to WeShoot right there in Lakewood, conveniently off the Parkway. You can check out their website, of course, at weshootusa.com. WeShoot also runs sales, and they have special guns they get in. They happen to be highlighting this week the Colt 1911 Competition, which is a race-ready .45ACP, with Novak sights and match-grade performance, which is built for precision and podiums. They’re also talking about the Marlin 1895 Trapper, a compact, fast-handling, chambered in .45-70 government. This lever action legend is back with Ruger quality and a threaded barrel for your suppressor setups. Evan Nappen 22:08 And what’s really nice. That model Marlin 1895 in .45-70 is the gun that both Teddy and I have bear hunted with. In fact, it was the Marlin 1895 guide gun that literally saved my life while bear hunting, when I was charged by a bear in the blind. Yeah, I was on a ground blind, my friends, because I don’t care too much for the blinds that are high up in the sky. I find that I rarely fall off a ground blind, okay? But those of you that hunt elevated, I get it. It’s fine, but I prefer a ground blind. So, I’m in this ground blind, and this bear literally charged the blind where I was. I had to shoot him point blank from the hip, virtually touching his body. And I just fired with a get the f away from me shot that luckily sent him sprawling. And it was a .45-70 that did the job and put him down immediately. So, I have a great love for my Marlin 1895 guide gun. Plus it is the gun they used in a Jurassic Park as protection against dinosaurs. So, if you ever think that you want to keep dinosaurs away, well, look how effective the .45- 70 is because I have yet to encounter a dinosaur while having my .45-70 with me. So, it must work Page – 5 – of 13 really well. But I know it works perfectly on charging bears. I can personally vouch for that. And WeShoot has got the Trapper, which is a handy, handy carbine, set up in that great round. And, of course, my favorite ammo is the Garrett load. Garrett makes a super hard cast .45-70 that are like little freight trains. I think they’ve even taken the Big Five in Africa with that round. And man, was I glad I had that round and that gun. Evan Nappen 24:40 WeShoot is also offering a Beretta 92XI SAO Tactical, which is a modern twist on a classic M9 with a single action only, suppressor-height, sights and optics-ready versatility. Now, of course, suppressors, unfortunately, are not legal yet in New Jersey, but plainly, they need to be, because it’s hearing protection, and they’re a great idea. I mean, you wouldn’t want to ride around in our cars without mufflers, right? And look, people rob banks in cars, and if you have a muffler, it’s less likely for them to be hurt. I mean, it’s a stupid logic. Like, are you kidding me? We need mufflers on cars, so give me a break, and you still hear cars even with mufflers. Well, you still hear guns even with silencers. It’s just that it’s not ear shattering, ear splitting noise. It’s noise that you can actually hunt without hearing protection. So, you can hear the game, and you can hear other hunters. And in a home-defense situation, it’s ideal. It’s not going to blow your ears out in your house, should you have to fire. It also helps control recoil. And if you’re at the range in training, you can listen to commands very easily. I mean, they’re a great accessory to firearms. New Jersey needs to get its act together on that one. Evan Nappen 26:08 And of course, we filed, through the Association and others have filed a legal challenge to the constitutionality of New Jersey’s ban on so-called silencers, which we call really suppressors, but the law calls silencers. It is a very good thing, and plus, we have federal challenge in the big, beautiful lawsuit, challenging the NFA regulations that have put silencers in the same category as machine guns since the 1930s. So, there’s a big movement. And most states, not including New Jersey, of course, have legalized silencers for hunting because they see the great advantage. So, these firearms at WeShoot are threaded for a suppressor. You can’t have a suppressor yet in New Jersey, but hopefully down the road, you’ll be able to. And if you have any of those guns, you’ll be set to go and buy a nice suppressor. So, look, folks, check out WeShoot at weshootusa.com and make sure you visit the range. You’ll love it. It’s a fantastic resource that we have in New Jersey. Evan Nappen 27:18 And let me also tell you about another resource in New Jersey, and that’s my book, New Jersey Gun Law. It’s the Bible of New Jersey gun law. Don’t be left behind and not have the book. I wrote this book to try to keep you legal, keep you from becoming another victim of New Jersey gun laws brought to you by the New Jersey Second Amendment oppression system. Okay, that’s what our gun laws are. It’s a system of Second Amendment oppression, and I have laid out for you how to navigate through that very complicated matrix of laws so you can stay legal. It is the resource on the subject. Go to EvanNappen.com, EvanNappen.com, to get your copy today. Hey, Teddy, what do you have for us today in Press Checks? Page – 6 – of 13 Teddy Nappen 28:20 Well, as you know, press checks are always free. And every now and then, I want to do a double check on our opposition, particularly now, as to see what the spin, the spin that they’re been cooking up. Evan Nappen 28:36 Oppo research. Evan Nappen 28:38 Yeah, that’s because there’s not a trace of truth in them. That’s what it is. A trace not even a trace of truth. Teddy Nappen 28:38 Always a fun time. And it’s from everyone’s Bloomberg, sorry. Bloomturd. Sorry, I misspoke. Is the outlet known as “The Trace. They decided to run an article going off of. Teddy Nappen 28:56 I always give credit for people able to come up with funny names. Like, you know how MSNBC changed their name because they won’t only be associated. Now it’s MS Now. I’ve heard it called BS Now. Evan Nappen 29:12 That’s pretty good. Teddy Nappen 29:13 Yeah, it’s a pretty good one. And you know everyone. Evan Nappen 29:16 Well, they are competing with CBS, CBS. So, anytime you watch that channel, you see BS. Evan Nappen 29:25 That’s my dummies favorite channel. I think. Teddy Nappen 29:25 Yeah, I’m just more of a communist news network myself, but Teddy Nappen 29:36 I know, right? But going off of The Trace, Trump cancels domestic violence program. (https://www.thetrace.org/2025/09/trump-domestic-violence-program-cancel/) Wow, that sounds horrible and also probably inaccurate. As I was reading through the article, what they’re freaking out about, and by this Alma Beauvais. Oh, multiple sites are scrambling after the Trump administration canceled a program designed to help tackle the dangers by guns in domestic abuse situations. What does that dress up? Domestic abuse situation tackling the issue of guns? Ding, ding, ding, ding. Red flags. They always love to dress it up. Every single time. Page – 7 – of 13 Evan Nappen 30:25 Well, that is one of the primary ways that New Jersey seizes guns, through that system. And in New Jersey, it’s so easy to make a claim of domestic violence. You just need a predicate act, which can run the gamut of any criminal offense, including harassment, which is a petty disorderly person’s offense, where the essence of harassment is doing something with purpose to annoy. Now, I know none of you have ever annoyed your spouse, right? You’ve never done that. Because if you have, then you’ve committed domestic violence in New Jersey, because that’s harassment. And then you can have your guns seized and a restraining order placed against you. So, it’s customary abused. Teddy Nappen 31:15 Anytime they try to say harassment, Dad, I always go back to “he threw pretzels at me.” Evan Nappen 31:22 Yes, that’s an actual case I had where the basis for this champion, shot gunning champion, had all his guns seized was a complaint that he threw pretzels at her. That was it. That’s all it took to qualify enough for a Temporary Restraining Order. And as soon as that TRO issues, pre-printed on the form, pre-printed is a search warrant to search and seize firearms. I mean, that warrant on there is unbelievable. I mean, it’s harder to get a properly made sandwich at Wawa than to get a search warrant as part of a TRO. It’s literally baked into the cake. They check the box and give the address and there you go. Because the DV itself is apparently sufficient to demand the seizure of Second Amendment rights and firearms, and you will then have to fight to regain your rights. New Jersey has a law, by the way, that says anybody who’s had guns seized pursuant to domestic violence becomes a prohibited person. So, even if you weren’t the violator, but your guns happen to be seized too, you’re prohibited from having guns until those guns are returned to you. It’s called “the seized but not returned provision”. So, if you are ever in a DV situation, even though the restraining order gets dismissed, you must get your guns back or you will lose your gun rights. You are a prohibited person, similar to a felon, because you had guns seized and not returned. Teddy Nappen 33:23 Yeah, so and kind of going off of that, you see where this money comes into play. It was under the Department of Justice’s Firearms Technical Assistance Program, where they would give out these grant monies to different communities to help tackle the dangers posed by guns and domestic abuse situations. The example they give is there was a half a million dollar grant to this Tucson community where the police department, they bragged about 60 protective orders served, 174 firearms “surrendered” by law enforcement. The courts have connected more than 200 high risk abuse survivors with service providers. So, they’re highlighting trying to justify the value of, you know, legalized swatting on individuals. Evan Nappen 34:17 And by the way, when your guns get seized, they are all run through a forward trace and NICS for check on the guns. And what happens is those forward trace numbers get inflated on every seizure, and then they’ll put out more statistics showing how many states have had how many crime guns. But included in the crime gun statistic are all these seizures taking place where they’re just running them Page – 8 – of 13 through the system in a routine manner. There’s been no conviction for any crime it, but they put them in that category of crime guns to, again, pump the numbers. Teddy Nappen 35:12 But I also find very funny in the article, is this cancelation coincides with a recent proposed rule by the DOJ that would help restore gun rights to certain people with criminal convictions, including misdemeanor domestic violence offenses. So, remember we talked a while back about the incredibly racist law that Chuck Schumer where they. Evan Nappen 35:38 Right. Where they stopped. Teddy Nappen 35:40 They defund the very ability for 33 years. Evan Nappen 35:44 Yeah, 33 years. Teddy Nappen 35:46 Now, they’re tying that to helping restore people’s rights to domestic violence. Evan Nappen 35:51 Right. So, what they’re doing is they’re trying to lay groundwork to fight the rights restoration by somehow trying to link it to domestic violence. Now, keep in mind that the domestic violence misdemeanor gun ban is something where you lose your gun rights for a misdemeanor. So, historically, it was originally only violent felons, and then over time, it became just felons. Then with that slippery slope, it fell to misdemeanors, but it’s domestic violence. You can bet that down the road, the antis would have with any misdemeanor you lose your Second Amendment rights. And the crazy thing about it is, if you commit harassment on someone who qualifies as a victim of domestic violence, such as a spouse, someone you had a dating relationship with, someone you are a shared household member with, either currently or previously, then that’s domestic violence, and you lose your gun rights for the state and the whole country. But if you go around all day long just harassing strangers, and you’ve been charged over and over again with harassing strangers, no problem. You don’t lose your gun rights. So, that’s the strange thing about how that law works. Teddy Nappen 37:11 Yeah, so kind of going off of this whole touch on Red Flag laws. I was very curious, and I thought to myself, okay, who did it first? Who was the one who was responsible? Whose bright idea was it to create Red Flag laws? Why did this start? Because I find the way to argue with the Left is always look to history because they can’t do history. That’s the part that kills their argument. Evan Nappen 37:51 When they try to rewrite it. Page – 9 – of 13 Teddy Nappen 37:53 Well, that’s their only. Well, yeah, and that’s why they try to remove civics, which, you know, which they did. So, sure. But shown by this, it turns out the first Red Flag law was enacted in Connecticut in 1999. Apparently, from a New York Times article from 1998, being at the Connecticut lottery, where it was an old accountant who shot four of his supervisors and himself. That was their whole justification for Red Flag, where he apparently from what I am handgun. Others say. Evan Nappen 38:37 Did you ever notice how every anti-gun law is always based on the lowest common denominator? In other words, they have to find an incident somewhere, and then they use what’s called the straw man technique. So, this is the straw man technique to further gun right suppression. That’s what they’re doing. Teddy Nappen 39:00 Yeah. And actually, how they try to argue that, oh, if we had red flag laws, we would have been able to stop him. Except South Coast today. This was the article written when they interviewed people. This is their argument. Beck frightened some of his co-workers because it turns out he liked to play paintball. And had a gun. Evan Nappen 39:24 Oh, paintball. Well, that does it, you know? And see how that’s twisted. And that’s, this is something I encounter, and you and I both have encountered in the system. Well, they’ll just twist it. Where normally you’d say, hey, the guy’s a target shooter. Oh, but he was a target shooter, you know, like, that’s somehow negative, or he played paintball, that’s a negative. Like, no. I mean the overwhelming, incredible, super majority of anybody who plays paintball as a target shooter. Or that matter, even a gun owner, does not commit crimes or wrong doings. It’s a very small number. Yet they want to try to take away everybody’s rights based on a few. And that’s not what it’s about. Teddy Nappen 40:20 Also highlighting the fact that he was going bald, and so he shaved his head. Yeah, that’s the. Yeah. That’s the ultimate Red Flag, when you’re losing your hair. Evan Nappen 40:35 I hope that doesn’t become a New Jersey disqualifier, because then I won’t be able to possess guns anymore in New Jersey. Because I’ve been getting pretty thin up there and, you know. Teddy Nappen 40:46 And of course, they ended with “Trespassers will be shot. Survivors will be shot again.” It was sign by his father’s door. Oh, yeah, okay. Evan Nappen 40:56 Well, they’ll probably just increase the fee for hair. Like, the more hair, the cheaper, and the less hair, more expensive. Or maybe they’ll tax, like Russia, at one point they taxed beards. Remember I showed you that coin that was the tax paid so you could have a beard. Yeah, maybe New Jersey will have to Page – 10 – of 13 have some kind of gun hair tax. And of course, there’ll be heavy licensing associated with that and having to do extensive background checks and hair follicle examination and all that good stuff. Teddy Nappen 41:34 They also tried to argue for the reason being was he missed out on multiple promotions and wanted to be paid $2 more at his work. So, if anyone at all, who has ever been upset with their boss, and. Evan Nappen 41:50 Wait a minute. Teddy Nappen 41:50 Be paid more. Evan Nappen 41:51 Maybe he also had his red stapler taken. Teddy Nappen 41:57 Yeah, red stapler, his red stapler. Evan Nappen 42:00 His red staples. Yeah, that also is a key indicator for any kind of a violent person. So, the excessive concerns over your red stapler. Teddy Nappen 42:12 Yeah, so the entire birth of the Red Flag Law is based entirely on someone who would not have been red flagged. From what the evidence and things they brought up, then nothing would have brought up. This isn’t like, oh man, he and the factors, like, he’s upset about his work and going bald. Yeah, that’ll stop him. Evan Nappen 42:32 Well, New Jersey has taken it to an even more extreme, because you have no due process on Red Flag up front. Zero, zip. Someone goes ex parte, meaning just them, talks to police. They get an order signed to seize your guns, search your house, traumatize you and your family, invade your privacy, steal your property, and you never know what happens until after it’s happened. And only afterwards, after you and your loved ones go through that entire traumatic experience, only then do you get to fight to try to get your guns and your gun rights back. It’s absolutely zero due process. When you hear the Left screaming about due process for you know, cartel members and all. Well, New Jersey doesn’t give due process to gun owners, right? Criminals, cartel, you name it, you know? Oh, they’re very concerned about due process, except when it comes to gun owners. Then, who cares about due process? Teddy Nappen 43:35 Well, it’s and then this is a good point that was brought up to me. Whenever they say the words due process, or they say the words free speech, because that’s the new big thing always. Or democracy, Page – 11 – of 13 free speech, TM, free speech, trademark, because they want to make it so they can have their free speech, not you or I. And their democracy, their version of democracy, where it’s mob rule on their end, where they have. Evan Nappen 44:03 I don’t want democracy. And our Founding Fathers didn’t want democracy, and America is not a democracy. America is a republic. There is a huge difference between being a republic, a representative government, a republic and a democracy, a democracy creates a tyranny of the majority. Our Founding Fathers didn’t like it. It was demonstrated through history to be a failure, and how America got perverted into this idea that we’re somehow a democracy, I don’t know. Because we’re not a democracy, and I don’t want us to be one. We’re a republic, and we need to protect the republic. Teddy Nappen 44:49 Pledge of Allegiance. That’s probably the reason why. Evan Nappen 44:51 Yeah, I guess so. It’s another move by the enemies of liberty and freedom. Well, Teddy, this week’s GOFU, an important lesson in which the GOFU is the Gun Owner Fuck Up. GOFUs are expensive legal problems, but not always legal that gun owners end up making mistakes and paying dearly, and you get to learn from them for free. So, this week’s GOFU is about storing guns at someone else’s house. You cannot do that. I cannot tell you how many times we get cases of individuals who are storing their firearms at their parents’ house, and they don’t live there. Now, the gun owner doesn’t live there, and they’re just storing them at a parents’ house, right? Or a friend’s house, where they have other people’s guns in their safe from other places. You can’t do that in New Jersey, okay? You have to store your guns within an exempted property, such as your home or your place of business that you own. If you have your guns at your friend’s house, there’s no exemption for that. Plus it can be deemed a transfer to your friend, which would itself be unlawful. And then if your guns end up seized in an issue, and they’re taken and they end up finding them somewhere else, then they can not only use it to take away your gun rights, but to criminally charge you. Evan Nappen 46:33 So, look, folks, if you’re going to store your guns, you store them lawfully under the exemptions which include at your home or at your place of business. That’s actually your place of business that you own. Or a FFL gun dealer that does gun storage, but short of that, you know also other exempted properties, such as at a range. But you can’t just have friends keep your guns. You can’t keep your friends guns. You can’t have your relatives guns. Your relatives can’t keep your guns. And this comes up a lot, and it is definitely a big GOFU. Evan Nappen 47:14 This is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens. Page – 12 – of 13 Speaker 2 47:26 Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state. Page – 13 – of 13 Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S3 E256_Transcript About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets. Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News. As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists. He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America. Email Evan Your Comments and Questions  [email protected] Join Evan’s InnerCircleHere’s your chance to join an elite group of the Savviest gun and knife owners in America.  Membership is totally FREE and Strictly CONFIDENTIAL.  Just enter your email to start receiving insider news, tips, and other valuable membership benefits.   Email (required) *First Name *Select list(s) to subscribe toInnerCircle Membership Yes, I would like to receive emails from Gun Lawyer Podcast. (You can unsubscribe anytime)Constant Contact Use. Please leave this field blank.var ajaxurl = "https://gun.lawyer/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php";

  Episode 255-Jasmine isn’t wrong… This time.  Also Available OnSearchable Podcast Transcript Gun Lawyer — Episode 255 Transcript SUMMARY KEYWORDS Police duty, Jasmine Crockett, Trump derangement syndrome, self-protection, Warren vs District of Columbia, gun rights, carry license, New Jersey gun law, Jeff Cooper, personal defense, alertness, ruthlessness, social media, firearm regulations, gun lawyer. SPEAKERS Evan Nappen, Speaker 2, Teddy Nappen Evan Nappen 00:15 I’m Evan Nappen. Teddy Nappen 00:17 And I’m Teddy Nappen. Evan Nappen 00:19 And welcome to Gun Lawyer. So, you probably have heard of Jasmine Crockett, and I bet you rarely, if ever agree with anything she says. She’s got a serious case of TDS, which is Trump Derangement Syndrome, and she is usually off the wall on just about anything she’s ever saying. Except the one time now where we see that she’s made a statement, and the media is criticizing her. People are saying what? This is shocking. How could she say that? Well, do you know what she said? I’ll tell you what she said. She said that the police aren’t there to protect you. That’s right. And people went crazy. What do you mean? The police? You see their slogan “to serve and protect”, “serve and protect”. (https://bearingarms.com/tomknighton/2025/09/11/for-once-jasmine-crockett-gets-it-right-on-police- n1229866) Of course, they’re there to protect you. How could she be that stupid to say that police aren’t there to protect you. When in fact, she is legally 100% correct. That’s right. Police do not have a duty to protect you. Their job is essentially investigation, enforcement after the fact. Law enforcement isn’t to prevent crime. Law enforcement solves crime. This is what she said, and she is right. Evan Nappen 01:56 You may not believe it. You may think that’s crazy, but let me just tell you the law. And this is why, if she took her statement further, which she won’t, that is why we need a right enshrined. We need the ability. We need the means to protect ourselves because the police are not there to protect us. The old saying is, you know, “when seconds count, the police are minutes away”. Well, it’s more than that. When seconds count, it’s not the police job to show up at all. Now the police will try to, of course. I’m sure in all their hearts they would love to, and this is not to put police down. This is to make it clear to you something you may not be aware of, and that’s why Gun Lawyer is here. You may not be aware of the actual state of the law when it comes to the police as to whether or not they have a duty to provide protection. And the answer to that resoundingly, is a legal NO. Page – 1 – of 7 Evan Nappen 03:04 You can look at the case Warren versus District of Columbia, which is probably one of the most incredible examples of this very point. (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981) In Warren versus District Columbia, a 1981 decision decided by the district court, a district Columbia Court of Appeals, what the Court held there was that police were under no specific legal duty to provide protection to individuals. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v._District_of_Columbia) And wait until you hear the facts and area of this case where the police had no duty to protect. It’s so bad. It’s so terrible, and the judges even felt it necessary to essentially apologize for making this decision that they had to make because it is the law. Here’s what the court said. After arguments notwithstanding, our sympathy for the appellants, who were tragic victims of despicable criminal acts, we affirm the judgments of dismissal. Evan Nappen 04:06 Listen to the fact pattern of what occurred to these folks. And why they sued and why they had no cause of action against the police for their negligence, because police have no duty to protect. So, I’ll give you the facts right now of this case. In the early morning of March 16, 1975, appellants, these are the people suing over their negligence and what they experience. Carolyn Warren, Joan Taliaferro, and Miriam Douglas were asleep in their rooming house on Lamont Street. They shared a room. Warren and Taliaferro shared a room on the third floor. Douglas shared a room on the second floor with her four-year-old daughter. The women were awakened by the sound of the back door being broken down by two men later identified as (Marvin) Kent and (James) Morse. The two men entered Douglas’s second floor room where Kent forced Douglas to sodomize him and Morse raped her. Warren and to Taliaferro heard Douglas’s screams from the floor above. Evan Nappen 05:03 Warren telephoned the police and told the officer on duty that the house was being burglarized and requested immediate assistance. The Department employee told her to remain quiet and assured that police assistance would be dispatched promptly. Warren’s call was received by the Metropolitan Police Department at 6:23 am. It was recorded as a burglary in process at 6:26 am. A call was dispatched to the officers as a “Code 2” assignment, although calls for a crime in progress should have been given priority and designated as a “Code 1”. Four police cruisers responded to the broadcast. Three to the Lamont street address and one to the address to investigate a possible suspect. Meanwhile, Warren and Taliaferro crawled from their window onto an adjoining roof and waited for the police to arrive. So, the two women on the upper floor have crawled out to the roof. While there they saw one policeman drive through the alley behind their house and proceed to the front of the residence without stopping, leaning out of the window or getting out of the car to check the back entrance of the house. A second officer apparently knocked on the front door of the residence, but left when received no answer. Three officers departed the scene at 6:33 am – five minutes after they arrived. Evan Nappen 06:15 When Warren and Taliaferro crawled back into the room, they again heard Douglas screaming and again called the police. They told the officer that intruders had entered the home and requested immediate assistance. Once again, the police assured them help was on the way. The second call was received at 6:42 am and recorded merely as “investigate the trouble”. It was never dispatched to any police officers. Believing the police might be in the house, Warren and Taliaferro called down to Page – 2 – of 7 Douglas, thereby alerting Kent as to their presence. Kent and Morris then forced all three women at knife point to accompany them to Kent’s apartment. And for the next 14 hours, the women were held captive, raped, robbed, beaten, forced to commit sexual acts upon each other and made to submit to the sexual demands of Kent and Mars. Evan Nappen 07:04 Appellants claim of negligence included the dispatcher’s failure to forward the 6:23 am call with the proper degree of urgency, and the responding officer’s failure to follow the standard police investigation procedures. Specifically failure to check the rear entrance position of property near the doors and windows and ascertain whether there was any activity inside. And the dispatcher’s failure to dispatch. All of that gone. Dismissed. Sorry. Police have no duty. There was no duty to protect. They got nothing. Zero, zip. Folks, this is a lesson. The lesson is that you are responsible for your protection. Jasmine Crockett was actually legally correct. Let that sink in. Police have no duty to protect you. It is incumbent upon you. You are the one responsible for your protection, not the police. So, anytime you hear a Second Amendment oppressionists say you don’t need guns, you have the police. No, we don’t. It’s not the police job to protect you. It is our individual responsibility, and that’s why it is our individual right. So, hey, Jasmine Crockett, what can I say? Even a blind squirrel finds a nut. She did. The criticism levied against her is completely misplaced. Teddy Nappen 08:31 Right! Only it’s more like a nut finding a blind squirrel. Evan Nappen 08:34 That’s right, but the only key here is Jasmine, take it further. Support the right to keep and bear arms. Support the Second Amendment. Support carry and the ability for individuals to defend themselves because of exactly what you said. Let me tell you about what you can do to protect yourself. As a matter of fact, what you can do to protect yourself is get your carry license. In order to do that, you can go to WeShoot. Our friends at WeShoot offer the classes to get your CCARE certification so you can get your New Jersey Permit to Carry. WeShoot is a range in Lakewood, New Jersey. They have a fantastic facility with great training and a great pro shop. They have all kinds of deals and specials. We love WeShoot. It’s where Teddy and I shoot and where we got our certifications. Just go there and mention Gun Lawyer, and you will be treated like royalty. And if you don’t mention Gun Lawyer, you’ll still be treated like royalty, because they are the best. Weshootusa.com is their website. Beautiful photos. And don’t miss the WeShoot girls that are posing with gorgeous guns. And there are guns that they have that you can buy, and they have great deals, great sales. They can not only sell you the guns, but also teach you how to effectively use them. Check out weshootusa.com. WeShoot is conveniently located in Lakewood, New Jersey, right off the Parkway. You’ll be glad you did. Evan Nappen 10:06 Let me also mention our good friends is the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs (ANJRPC). And the New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs just had a case in the federal court, where the Appellate Court gave a mixed win at the moment. But of course, the fight isn’t over. It was a, we’ll call it a partial victory, regarding “sensitive places” in the Carry Killer bill. Essentially, what the status quo is at the moment, has been maintained in which you can still carry in your vehicle. With the carjacker protection law that Page – 3 – of 7 has still being enjoined, you can carry concealed loaded on your person with a New Jersey carry permit in your vehicle. That is still enjoined. And you can do that because, remember, the Carry Killer bill tried to prevent it. You can still go on private property, as long as it’s open to the public and not otherwise a sensitive place. We lost a little bit in terms of filming locations, in terms of movie filming, and in terms of transport on public transportation. You’re going to have to have the gun cased, unloaded, etc, if you’re going to be riding a bus or a train. Evan Nappen 11:34 However, interestingly, they found that of the $200 fee, the $50 fee portion that goes to the State was unlawful. It’s unlawful because it went to the VCCB, which is a Victims Crime Compensation Board. Under the case law, you cannot have a fee for a license not go to the actual regulatory activity that is the purpose of the fee. So, that’s been knocked out. So, now the price for a New Jersey carry permit is $150. And if you live in any of the towns that are refunding, such as Englishtown, which was one of the first to start it, they’re refunding their $150. So, you can actually get your carry permit in New Jersey for free. So, the fight continues. This is just one step as we go along, challenging these Second Amendment oppressionists’ legislation that they’ve laid upon us. And the Association is there at the forefront, fighting for your rights. Make sure you’re a member of anjrpc.org, anjrpc.org. Evan Nappen 12:45 Let me also mention my book, which is New Jersey Gun Law. It is the Bible of New Jersey gun law. You can get your copy of New Jersey Gun Law at EvanNappen.com, and you’ll be glad you’re you did. Because it can help keep you out of the New Jersey Gun Owner Gulag. It’ll help you navigate the very complex course that has been laid out by the gun rights oppressionists who try to trip you up, turn you into a criminal, and stop you from being a defender instead of a victim. You need to be a defender instead of a victim, especially since the police have no duty to protect you, as you now know. So, get the book. You’ll be glad you did. Go to EvanNappen.com and get that big orange book. Order it today, and when you get it, scan the front cover and make sure you get in my private subscriber base. You’ll be able to immediately access the archives. You’ll also be able to get the updates that I send out, and you will be able to download the 2025 Comprehensive Update that has including a new stand alone chapter on “sensitive places” – where you can and can’t carry. So, check it out and get your book today. Teddy, what do you have for us on Press Checks? Teddy Nappen 14:03 So, Press Checks are always free. I assume everyone, yeah, just not only the death of Charlie Kirk but a brutal slaying of an innocent woman on a tram from just some monster taking a knife and gutting her. I was kind of thinking on now that there’s just all out violence that is going on. I look to one book. I don’t know if many people have read it, but many people are familiar with Jeff Cooper. You actually met Jeff Cooper, even I remember. (https://jeffcooperfoundation.org/?page_id=453) Evan Nappen 14:39 Oh, a number of times. And he was my favorite. I mean, man, when you got “Guns and Ammo”, he had that back page. The first thing I read in “Guns and Ammo”. He was a great writer and a great man. I love Jeff Cooper. Page – 4 – of 7 Teddy Nappen 14:52 Yep, he was also on the Board of Directors of the National Rifle Association. Evan Nappen 14:56 Oh, yeah. Teddy Nappen 14:56 Modern pistol shooting techniques. And he was the one who spearheaded it and just crazy Evan Nappen 15:02 Scout Rifle, 10 millimeter, you name it. He was an amazing legend and influence on the world of firearms and gun rights for that matter, too. Teddy Nappen 15:15 Yeah. And from what has been happening in this world, I look to one of his more popular books, which I highly recommend anyone who is willing to read or even just listen to it, is “Principles of Personal Defense”. Evan Nappen 15:31 Oh yeah, it’s a classic. Teddy Nappen 15:33 I’ve listened to it twice, and I assume you have your signed copy somewhere. Evan Nappen 15:38 Oh yeah, that’s right. I do, Teddy. I sure as hell do. Teddy Nappen 15:41 There are two key ones, though. I’m not going to go over the whole principles, but one particular, the number one principle, first thing he talks about, Alertness. Alertness. Alertness. He even has this quote in the book. “A commander may be forgiven for being defeated, but never for being surprised.” That is something to think on and live by. He kind of goes in these details about being far more observed and training yourself. He actually describes it as “make it a game”. Keep a chart. Every time anyone is able to approach you from behind without your knowledge, give yourself an X. Every time you see someone before they see you, give yourself an O. And then look at your score at the end of the day. It’s a great way to practice, because you need to be observant nowadays. If you sit in a car, someone’s there or something seems out of place, something seems off, catch it. 99% of the time it’s probably nothing. But it’s that 1% where it could be an issue. He even looks to call out, looking for things that are out of place, too. If you’re walking home and you see your door is ajar or you see something is off, why is that? Check. Always. Because you never know what’s going to happen out there. And in this day and age, you need to be far more observant, as all it takes is for something you miss, and that, that’s what gets you. Page – 5 – of 7 Teddy Nappen 17:14 There is one quote that also sticks with me. It’s on the principle that he carries, which is ruthlessness. It’s one that I feel that is very important now, especially what’s been going on. If violent crime is to be curved, it is only the intended victim who can do it. The felon does not fear the police. He fears neither the judge nor the jury. Therefore, what he must be taught to fear is the victim. That is something I think is very important in this day and age now. You have to learn to defend yourself. You have to learn and be ruthless in that regard, in that you have to, in those precious moments, do not think about the bad guy. Think about yourself. You’ve got to defend yourself, and then what seconds could be precious to decide life and death for you and he actually. Evan Nappen 18:16 Remember, reaction is always slower than action, right? So, this is part of where to, in a way, always at that disadvantage, and you don’t want that disadvantage to become even worse and more of a disadvantage. So, awareness ties into this with exactly what you’re saying. But the fear of the victim is really what carry and defense is about. Because once the evildoers realize that their victims will fight back and are no longer easy pickings, it is the same even in the animal kingdom, it is the weak that is preyed upon. And to a larger degree, if it becomes known that individuals carry, then the evildoers do not know who is and who isn’t carrying. And that becomes a deterrence in and of itself. That’s what you see in the states that have the correct and proper attitude toward individuals who are defenders. And that’s where that very principle you talked about is proven, is demonstrated. New Jersey is, unfortunately, not following it. They turn defenders into criminals. They have an agenda to take our guns and disenfranchise us of our rights, and it does a disservice to the very principle, Teddy, that you’ve just discussed. It creates more victims, and it ends up harming society and costing lives. Costing us in terms of crime, and they don’t care about that. They have an agenda that they feel is way more important, and that agenda runs through in a bias through the entire system. And that’s what we have to stand up to. And we’ve got to make these political changes and make these legislative changes. Make sure you get out and vote. All this is part of the big picture. So, these points by Colonel Cooper are timeless, and I highly recommend, if you haven’t read his Principles, it’s a very short, very important read. It will change your perspective on life and help you to not be a victim and to better protect yourself. It really is just a classic piece of Jeff Cooper magnificence. Teddy Nappen 21:01 Even just kind of rereading it, you see how a lot of these principles can still be applied today. He even talks about one of the stories with one of his students, where the student was a person who has two guys were rolling up on him with a machine pistol, that’s what he describes it as, and a shotgun. But the principle he applied to that was coolness. He was able to be accurate, and immediately, as the two are rolling up on him in his car, he gets out, aims and fires as the other two just spray and miss. He takes aim. Evan Nappen 21:36 Spray and pray. Teddy Nappen 21:37 Yup, but it shows the level of and that’s the principle of coolness, where you have to be accurate. Page – 6 – of 7 Evan Nappen 21:42 But, well, that was the classic with the Western gunfighter, right? That was always their procedure. Like, you know, guys will, you see, you know, fanning the hammer and all that. No, the guys that really knew it were cool under fire and made their shots count. That’s right, yeah. Teddy Nappen 22:03 But yeah, this is definitely something. I would highly, highly recommend reading Jeff Cooper’s book, “Principles of Personal Defense”, or even listening to it. It gives good advice, because right now, things are very hard. Evan Nappen 22:17 Right. It is, and it’s dangerous times for sure. Next, I want to mention the segment that we all look forward to, which is the GOFU. GOFU is the Gun Owner Fuck Up. These are where real good gun people make mistakes that can be costly. And what I want to emphasize about this week’s GOFU is this. I don’t want you to lose your gun rights because of something you post. And given everything that’s going on and with the ghouls that are out there posting things online, you may be tempted to respond in kind or respond out of emotion. Do not do that. Because, let me tell you, New Jersey actually has, as one of its disqualifiers in the licensing statute which applies to your Firearms Purchaser ID Card, your Carry Permit and your Permit to Purchase a Handgun. It falls under N.J.S. 2C:58-3, subsection c., where the disqualifiers are, but it’s right in the beginning paragraph. Evan Nappen 23:22 It says, “c. Whom may obtain.” Except as hereinafter provided, a person shall not be denied a permit to carry a handgun or a firearms purchaser identification card, unless the person is known in the community in which the person lives as someone who has engaged in acts or made statements suggesting the person is likely to engage in conduct, other than justified self-defense, that would pose a danger to self or others, . . . ” And that’s where your social media gets looked at. If something gets reported, if anything along that where you said something back even to some disgusting, horrible statement that some jerk makes online, they can turn the tables on you and move to revoke and deny your gun rights. So, don’t have that GOFU. Be very careful. Remember, anything you put online is public. It is recorded permanently, and it will be there to possibly haunt you and cause problems for you being able to have firearms in New Jersey. Evan Nappen 24:35 This is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens. Speaker 2 24:59 Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state. Page – 7 – of 7 Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S3 E255_Transcript About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets. Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News. As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists. He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America. Email Evan Your Comments and Questions  [email protected] Join Evan’s InnerCircleHere’s your chance to join an elite group of the Savviest gun and knife owners in America.  Membership is totally FREE and Strictly CONFIDENTIAL.  Just enter your email to start receiving insider news, tips, and other valuable membership benefits.   Email (required) *First Name *Select list(s) to subscribe toInnerCircle Membership Yes, I would like to receive emails from Gun Lawyer Podcast. (You can unsubscribe anytime)Constant Contact Use. Please leave this field blank.var ajaxurl = "https://gun.lawyer/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php";

  Episode 254- Is A Trans Gun Ban A Good Idea? Also Available OnSearchable Podcast Transcript Gun Lawyer — Episode 254 Transcript SUMMARY KEYWORDS Gun ban, transgender individuals, NRA opposition, Second Amendment, New Jersey gun laws, mental health issues, Trump administration, 4473 form, non-binary category, National Instant Check System, gender dysphoria, gun rights, political ramifications, gun confiscation, compliance rates. SPEAKERS Evan Nappen, Teddy Nappen, Speaker 2 Evan Nappen 00:15 I’m Evan Nappen. Teddy Nappen 00:17 And I’m Teddy Nappen. Evan Nappen 00:19 And welcome to Gun Lawyer. So, I don’t know, maybe President Trump listens to Gun Lawyer. Because after our show last week, when we talked about gun bans for trans and explored that topic, it appears that the Trump administration is actually considering doing that. (https://www.cnn.com/2025/09/04/politics/transgender-firearms-justice-department-second-amendment) And I guess the question is, is that a good idea or not? Now, let me just say straight out that NRA, from their news release, stated they are against any type of sweeping ban on anyone. (https://x.com/NRA/status/1963993115410198964) Particularly noted there were transgender individuals. They are opposed to it, and I can absolutely understand from principle why we would want to oppose as being not oppressors, but those in favor of expanding and not restricting gun rights. Evan Nappen 01:30 But if President Trump and his administration pursue this, there are interesting political ramifications that I want to talk about. It may, in the long run, actually be pro-Second Amendment rights to enact a gun ban for trans. Believe it or not. Now, I don’t know. I don’t have a crystal ball, but there are factors to be considered in this. My initial reaction, of course, is the same as NRA’s and that is, I oppose any kind of gun ban, because that’s a Constitutional right. It is something that should not be prohibited to anyone, because I’m an extremist when it comes to gun rights. So, that’s my personal viewpoint. And people could take issue with that by saying, well, you would want anybody? Yeah, because I think the gun laws don’t work, and you’re not stopping anybody, in reality, other than good people. So, gun laws are basically useless. But that’s not our society that we live in, is it? Instead, we’ve embarked on having gun laws that are claimed to be reasonable, when in fact, we see that they’re quite unreasonable. Page – 1 – of 14 Evan Nappen 03:01 I deal with that every day, especially in New Jersey, which has abused that situation to an amazing degree. To such a degree of absurdity, to a degree that generally in America, people don’t understand just how bad it is in New Jersey. And New Jersey is proud of their tough gun laws. They’re proud of it. They even go and try to impose their will everywhere else when it comes to stopping law-abiding citizens from having guns. And of course, it’s all fueled by what? By the Left, by the Democrat Left. You know, there are some RHINOs that will jump on board now and then, but it’s essentially their position. The position of the Left is restrict guns, restrict gun rights, and be our oppressors. Okay? And we’ve had to deal with that fight. And so, what makes this very interesting is that they are now going to focus on what is a darling of the Left, and that is the transgender folks. You know, if you’re an illegal immigrant or transgender, then the Left bends over backwards for you in every way, and we’ve seen it. Whether it has to do with protecting violent criminals who are illegal immigrants or downplaying any time a trans commits a mass shooting. Putting out their propaganda that says, oh, you know, they’re really not, they’re really not any more dangerous. Evan Nappen 04:44 When we talked about that last, where we went deeper than the media propaganda on it to show, no, they actually is greater psychological issues for those that have the transgender dysphoria, that gender dysphoria. This is, you know, all part of the propaganda media. But what makes this interesting to me is now it might be, by way of what President Trump is considering, a way of putting the Left back on its heels. It may be something where ultimately the fight as to the Constitutionality of that very action could actually have a great effect on expanding and getting rid of so much of the extremism in New Jersey, because now it’s the Left’s ox being gored, and they don’t want that. They don’t like that. And so, now they get to choose. What is it? It’s like that meme where it has the guy sweating with the two red buttons, right? Gun control or supporting transgender? What is it that you like more? Right? You’ve got to pick, and they’re absolutely conflicted and can’t pick. Well, that puts it in perspective as to all the other suffering and all the other things they do preventing all kinds of other folks from being able to exercise their rights. Evan Nappen 06:33 So, it would really interestingly lay the groundwork on even the challenge, which I would assume would be sure to come, that could have much broader consequences if it’s found, in fact, to be unconstitutional. Who knows? Maybe it wouldn’t be, which then might be even a problem. I mean, it could make it worse. It’s true. It’s hard to say how that’ll play out, but definitely the politics of it are fascinating. And if we were to just for a moment take a position of, let’s say, the Trump Justice Department or the administration, where they’re looking at possibly enacting a trans ban and doing similar things in the way they have stopped trans from being in the military and have taken other steps regarding that. What actually could President Trump and his administration do to effectuate stopping trans from getting guns? So, there’s one thing right off the bat that they could pretty easily do. That is, on the 4473, when you fill out a 4473, which is the form you fill out when you buy a gun from a dealer, one of the things on that application asks, are you male, female or non-binary? (https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/4473-part-1-firearms-transaction-record-over-counter-atf-form- 53009/download) Page – 2 – of 14 Evan Nappen 08:10 So that non. No, no, that’s a separate question. That’s a separate question on it. That’s all. That’s a whole other racist issue there. But just on trans, the addition of non-binary to that form is, in effect, a lie. Because your birth is either male or female. And whatever you identify as, whatever your, you know, trans issues are, that’s all well and good. But basically, biological sex is something that factually can be determined. And what’s gotten interesting is that many states allow for non-binary on their driver’s licenses. So, by removing non-binary as a category of the 4473, which can be done in the same way that it was added to the 4473. It wasn’t done by laws. It was done by administration, by eliminating it. Now, anyone who doesn’t have an ID that specifies male or female becomes prohibited from acquiring a firearm from a dealer, because the Federal government doesn’t have to recognize non-binary as a category. And in fact, they could do that. Prior to that change being added to the 4473, individuals that had licenses from states that had non-binary as a category for their driver’s license ended up not being able to purchase guns from dealers and being able to fill out of the 4473. And that could be something that Trump could return to, by knocking out the non-binary category. Evan Nappen 10:09 It could even go further, because the driver’s licenses that list as non-binary could also easily be part of the NICS, the National Instant Check System. So, in fact, a database of non-binary, which exists in the states, can be fed into the NICS system. And that is precisely what happens with criminal records and what happens with mental health records. You can even say, hey, you know, whether I’m non-binary, that should be private. That should be. No, it’s not. I mean, mental health commitments aren’t private. If a mental health commitment is something that is databased into the NICS system and in which grant monies were provided under, specifically, the 2007 NICS Improvement Act to encourage states to put mental health commitments data into the database, well, it could be done for putting transgender, non- binary license holders into a database and making it a preclusion, because it’s no longer a category that can even be asked on the form. And, by the way, anyone who has received Federal monies for gender dysphoria treatments, medical records of it, medical commitments, in the same way that mental health commitments, that data can be accessed. If you think you have medical privacy, well, that’s a joke. Because I see it all the time in New Jersey. There is no medical privacy. And New Jersey goes even further. Evan Nappen 11:52 So, Trump could adopt the New Jersey model that they’re so proud of, the Jersey model, the New Jersey gun control, gun rights suppression question. It would just take a very simple modification. Because right now, New Jersey gun law, under N.J.S. 2C:58-3, which has the licensing criteria and what we call the disqualifiers. Well, right in there under subsection c., where they put all the disqualifiers, look at what it says. It says, “c. Who may obtain.” And when you go to number (3), it says, “To any person”, these are, this is someone who’s now prohibited, ready? “To any person who suffers from a physical defect or disease which would make it unsafe for that person to handle firearms, . . .” So, we’re immediately going at anybody with physical defect or disease, you know. If you have a physical disability, well, if it makes you unsafe to handle firearms, that’s New Jersey law right now on that. “. . . to any person with a substance use disorder involving drugs . . ., or to any alcoholic . . . unless any of the foregoing persons produces a certificate of a medical doctor, treatment provider, or psychiatrist licensed in New Jersey, or other satisfactory proof, that the person is no longer suffering Page – 3 – of 14 from that particular disability in a manner that would interfere with or handicap that person in the handling of firearms. . . ” Teddy Nappen 13:54 Good luck trying to get a doctor to say that. Evan Nappen 13:56 Well, all we have to do is add in, take the New Jersey language right there that they’re so freaking proud of, and just say, “to any person who suffers from gender dysphoria or has received treatment for that, or as non-binary, or any way you want to define it, or put it in there. But put it right there and then just add “unless the foregoing person produces a certificate of a medical doctor, treatment provider or psychiatrist”, and that’s how you would then have to overcome it. It’s simply being based on the gun rights oppression law of New Jersey that they’re so proud of. They want to force it on everybody else. So, hey, they opened the door for it. And what if such a law was passed? Don’t you think it would be challenged? I think it would be. And if it was something Federal, I think people would be jumping into the courts pretty fast over that. One, because of the activism, and this time it would be the Left, the supporters of gun rights oppression. Trying to say that by requiring that, what I just read you verbatim from New Jersey law, and applying it to the trans issue, oh, that’s unconstitutional. That’s a violation of the Second Amendment, you see. Now, when it suits them, they’ll argue it. Evan Nappen 15:29 Well, those kind of cases can have impact, and it can have impact in possibly torpedoing this entire approach as well as it should be. Because what I just read you there is not found currently in Federal law. In Federal law, there is no prohibitor for “physical defect or disease” that would make it unsafe. There’s no Federal prohibitor for that substance use disorder. No. Now you can’t be a user, a user, but it’s not about having a disorder, and the Feds roll with that. So, you know, you might be able to even expand on how the Feds deal with the drug issue, and kind of put in the New Jersey special into that one. Or “any alcoholic”. There’s no Federal prohibition currently on “any alcoholic”. And then you create their exemption, the same exemption. So, make these folks have to get the exemption that New Jersey puts in there, because their law is so wonderful, right? So, you can see that, you know. It is possible. It’s possible to do this. Evan Nappen 16:45 It’s possible to create a database as well, which is what’s done already in all these other areas. It’s possible to change the application, very easily, which has been done in the reverse. So, all these are possibilities that the Trump administration could do. And you know, my basic view is, I hope they don’t. Because I don’t want to see further oppression of our gun rights. But if they do, it may open the door for court challenges. It may finally, maybe, wake up some folks on the Left. Probably not, but maybe that they see it. They may see the light that, hey, what comes around goes around, you know what I mean. You were all high and mighty about screwing everybody else, and now suddenly, the folks that you’re so concerned about, oh, look what happened. Look what happened. So maybe you shouldn’t be so much of a gun rights oppressionists after all. And it may be a lesson learned, and it may be a way to teach that lesson. Maybe, maybe. Like I said, my fundamental feeling is the same as the NRA’s, but I’m open to explore it. Open to explore it, that is for sure. Page – 4 – of 14 Teddy Nappen 18:13 Looking at it politically, I understand, encroachment of our rights is typically bad. It’s not going to end well, and they’ll be or down the line. But politically speaking, this brings it into the forefront. Particularly on that. The whole trans issue is 80/20, more like a 95/5 and. Evan Nappen 18:37 Right? Teddy Nappen 18:37 And we have been winning on that issue repeatedly. I think what is very important about this is it pivots the conversation. Because now the Republicans have a new angle they can play, which is, stop talking about the inanimate object. We’re talking about we have a mental health issue in our country, and we point to this exact thing. Why don’t you want to deal with this issue? Right here from the last podcast, you listed off all the data. All the mental health problems that come with trans issue. Evan Nappen 19:09 And that’s right from the National Health. Teddy Nappen 19:15 Yeah. Evan Nappen 19:15 Folks themselves. They put it out. But you see, they couch it in a way where they’re trying to say, if you look at the articles on it, every article about this idea has the propaganda in it that says, oh, transgenders are not responsible for these. They’re not responsible. You know, that’s just, you know, prejudicial. No. There is the data on it that they’re purposely suppressing and misconstruing so it fits their message. You know. No. The data is there, and the shootings are there by these people. They’re out there. Okay? Oh, well, you know. I mean, it’s just a fact. But how do we solve it? And as you say, Teddy, with a focus, actually, on mental health. That may help to bring it to what the real problem is, because it’s surely not inanimate objects. Yet, you always see, you know, the blood dance that take place after any shooting. And, oh, you know, we gotta ban the intrinsically evil black rifle with only one purpose – to kill hundreds of people. You know. And then, when you ask them, can you tell me what an assault firearm is? They can’t even define it. They can’t define it. They can’t define what a woman is. So, why would you expect them to be able to define what an assault firearm is? Teddy Nappen 20:45 The other thing I can see is this in the grand scheme. We’ve talked about this with New Jersey law. If they did try to apply what New Jersey has to the country, to stop all trans, I imagine there would be a way where they would just try to carve out an exception, typically, those with gender dysphoria. Evan Nappen 21:06 Oh yeah, that’s right. Well, like they did that on the abortion providers that were breaking the law. They specifically carved an exemption under the gun laws in New Jersey. If you’re a fugitive from justice Page – 5 – of 14 because you helped facilitate an illegal abortion or help someone get it illegally, or you’re fleeing from that, you’re exempt. So, yeah, if anything, they would bend over backwards to exempt this from the gun laws, but we can’t let them do that. At the moment, by the way, New Jersey hasn’t exempted that. So, the mental health question in New Jersey, if you’re not falling in those categories we reviewed, then it comes down to whether you’ve had a voluntary or involuntary commitment. If anybody that has the trans issue has had a voluntary or involuntary commitment in New Jersey, then you are already prohibited under New Jersey law. They did not put an exception in, and the only way you can get your rights back is if you can get an expungement of that mental health commitment. And since so many have that excess. Go ahead, Tedddy. Teddy Nappen 22:17 The other way that Trump could do this, and I don’t know if it would be possible, particularly with marijuana, it’s still prohibited federally. And, you know, Bang or Bong, you can’t have both. Would there be a way to put the “gender affirming care” drugs in that category. A lower enough tier to where it can be prescribed. Evan Nappen 22:39 Hey, I bet that’s an interesting idea. They might be looking at that because of this issue, and I wouldn’t be surprised if the administration does take steps here. Because you point out the politics of it really end up putting the Left back on their heels, and like I say, even though we have a general aversion to anything that creates right suppression, the politics of this are undeniably fascinating. It just puts the entire political situation on its ear. Because now you have conservatives, including the NRA, standing up for transgender rights. Let that sink in, folks. And I’m not saying it’s bad, but you know, does the Left acknowledge this? Do they say, hey, the oldest civil rights organization in America is against this. And by the way, what about the oppressionists? What about the gun rights oppression folks at like The Trace? Are they in favor of a trans gun ban? Well, probably not, because they’re not really responsible for this. There’s so few and, you know. I can see them rationalizing it away, of course, for their politics. The NRA didn’t rationalize it away. They said no. They said, no, we are against any blanket policy like that. So, they’re standing up for it, but it’s still a fascinating idea. And New Jersey has laid the groundwork, if you will. If the Trump administration actually wanted to pursue it, they could follow the New Jersey model that they so proudly try to promote throughout America on everything else. Teddy Nappen 24:35 I would like. It would be very funny if Josh Sugarman comes out with a new book, NRA – Castrations and Gun Rights, or, you know, something along those lines. Evan Nappen 24:49 Yeah, NRA supports. Right. They way they support felons getting guns, right? But where they. Yeah, actually, there you have it right there. If you have the dysphoria, then you have to go through the Relief from Disabilities Program where you’re approved so that you can have your gun rights in the same way as a convicted felon would get their rights restored. So, they could do the ban. This is another approach. They could do the ban, but leave in place the ability for those that are safe and not a danger, just like for felons, just like exactly what Relief from Disability under federal law. What that program is about and that (Senator Charles) Schumer killed way back. We haven’t had the process for 33 years, Page – 6 – of 14 and President Trump and his administration is finally opening it up again, so many good people can get their rights back. Well, you could leave that as the mechanism for gaining rights if you have the dysphoria disqualifier. So, there’s already something federally in place that could be utilized to do that. Very interesting. Evan Nappen 26:03 So, anyway, Teddy. I want to mention our good friends at the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. We’re fighting these New Jersey gun laws that never seem to be enough. And of course, there’s a whole package that got halfway through and that they’re going to look to stick it to gun owners again. Another BOHICA (Bend Over Here It Comes Again) to gun owners coming up from Murphy and company. And it’s the State Association, the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs, that’s standing in the way and fighting to stop it. It’s that whole horror show of new bills, including the insane enhancement to the Gun Owner Gulag, and making any firearm discharge a felony, whether it was uncommanded or accidental. Immediately you’re charged with a felony, which will then throw you into the Gulag. It is just more of their shenanigans to incarcerate gun owners, to disenfranchise us of our rights. The Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs is at the forefront, both legislatively and in the courts. You really need to be a member. Make sure you join anjrpc.org, anjrpc.org. You’ll be glad you did. You’ll get email alerts so you’ll know what’s going on. You’ll know that you are part of the solution. Evan Nappen 27:39 Also, let’s mention our favorite range, where Teddy and I both get our training and we shoot at. WeShoot is a great range in Lakewood, New Jersey, conveniently off the Parkway. WeShoot has a great website. Go to weshootusa.com. This week at WeShoot, they have some pretty cool deals that I want to make you aware of. They have a Sig Sauer M400 Rose. Ah, the rose is but a rose is but a rose. Designed for women and inspired by empowerment. It’s a modern AR platform with a perfect balance of control, ergonomics, and performance. So, you want to check out that Sig Sauer M400 rose. They also have a Marlin 1895CB, a true lever-action classic, chambered in .45-70, built for tradition and trusted for generations. And by the way, the 1895 in .45-70 in the guide gun version, is the gun that both Teddy and I have bear hunted with, and one of them saved my life from a bear that actually charged me in the blind. So, I can vouch for Marlin .45-70s as being an excellent firearm, and WeShoot happens to have the 1895CB there for you to see and purchase. Evan Nappen 29:11 They also have a beautiful engraved Colt Python. That’s an American icon of a revolver. It has elegant engraving and blending craftsmanship and performance like no other revolver. They have a Juliana & Vaulttek Lifepod Safes, right out on the Jersey Shore. Juliana shows why these weather-resistant, biometric, and ultra-secure safes are built for adventure and everyday peace of mind. So, you can see all these things and more at WeShoot. Check them out online at weshootUSA.com. I’m looking at that nice 1895. Wow. It’s got a nice laminate stock. It’s got a wide loop lever, you know, the big loop for a glove on the lever. It’s a beaut. I love that gun, don’t you love yours, Teddy? Teddy Nappen 30:04 I do. Page – 7 – of 14 Evan Nappen 30:04 You know the Marlin. They have the guide gun, too, there. They have the guide gun with the big loop in .45-70 that is the gun. And man, with that .45-70, you can get some ammo that is really hard hitting, like the Garrett loads. Those Garrett .45-70s or Buffalo boars. Man, they’ll take down anything on the planet. As a matter of fact, I think they’ve taken the Big Five in Africa with the Garrett load in the .45-70 in the super hard cast. That is like a freight train coming out of there, man. Which is why? What movie in Jurassic Park? And who was it that had the Marlin guide gun in .45-70 for shooting dinosaurs? Teddy Nappen 30:51 It was Jurassic World with Chris Pratt while he was on his motorcycle. Evan Nappen 30:55 Hey, you got to give Chris Pratt credit, because that’s the gun I would choose, too. With the Garrett loads. If you got to face a dinosaur, that’s a great gun to pick. No question about it. So, you know you can do bears and anything else you’re hunting. It’ll take it down with ease and really do the job. So, check it out at weshootusa.com. Evan Nappen 31:23 Now let me shamelessly promote my book, which is New Jersey Gun Law. It’s the Bible of New Jersey gun law. Everybody needs it. If you want a Nappen book, look, I use my own book all the time. So, I can tell you, as a user of my book, you need this book. This book is the source, the reference book. I set it up so that it’s all question and answer on 120 topics with all the laws in the back. When you get the book, scan the QR code on the front, and get the access to the archives, where you have all the updates. Download the 2025 Comprehensive Update. You’ll be totally current anytime there are changes. I let folks know for free. So, make sure you do that. Get your copy of New Jersey Gun Law. You can go to EvanNappen.com, EvanNappen com. You’ll see the big orange book there, just click it and you will be able to be a proud owner of the famous New Jersey gun law book. So, Teddy, what do you have for us today in Press Checks? Teddy Nappen 32:37 Well, as you all know, Press Checks are always free, and I always try to keep a pulse on things. You know, just stay up on the news. I like to think it’s my way of like opening the morning paper. Got to see what’s going on, and stay on top of stuff. This came out of from, it was from CNN, but LifeZette. They covered the whole article. (https://www.lifezette.com/2025/09/cnn-panelist-suggests-democrats-could- use-national-guard-to-confiscate-your-guns-watch/) I don’t know if you ever heard of Jonah Goldberg. He was Editor in Chief from dispatch. A TDS Republican, and I put quotations around Republican. As you know. Evan Nappen 33:15 And what is, for people, in case you don’t know, what is TDS? You and I know what it is. Teddy Nappen 33:19 Trump Deranged Syndrome. Page – 8 – of 14 Evan Nappen 33:21 Trump Derangement Syndrome. Ah, now that that should be in the DSM. Don’t you think that should be? That should be. Actually, that could be a disqualifier. Trump should look into making anyone that has TDS ineligible to buy a firearm. There. That’s something that would probably be reasonable, reasonable considering how crazy the TDS folks are and how they are constantly talking about wanting to kill the President. Not only that, rejoicing in any bad news about the President, even, and lately, fantasizing in his death. So, hey, sounds right for disqualifier for TDs to me. I don’t know, man, right? Teddy Nappen 34:13 Give it time. We’ll see what can be made. So, he was on CNN, and they were talking about Trump putting out the National Guard into D.C. By the way, he has done a great job cracking down on crime in D.C. The numbers have dropped down to, I thought, you know, they have Charles Bronson walking the streets. They dropped so low. But Jonah Goldberg, in his TDS manner, decided to go off and say, listen to the Mayor of Chicago talk about the gun crisis in America. Well, what is to stop, and this is his argument, given the precedent that Donald Trump is setting, what is to stop Democrat Governor Pritzker or Governor Newsom, from saying, we have a gun crisis in America. Just as legitimate on the facts and argument as a crime crisis, and we’re going to send the National Guard into states and get the guns they have. There has to be standards. First off, ding, ding, ding, ding. Logical fallacy alert everybody. Logical fallacy. Mott-and-Bailey fallacy. Applying to. Evan Nappen 35:27 The Mott-and-Bailey fallacy. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motte-and-bailey_fallacy) Ah, as we discussed, the Mott and Bailey is a form of logical fallacy and used in argument. Just to refresh people’s minds. Where you have a reasonable position and the unreasonable position, and you use the reasonable position to try to make the unreasonable position tenable. Teddy Nappen 35:56 And clearly, you know, sending in the National Guard when there’s a massive crime wave to a city which, if it was named a state, which they keep pushing for, it would become the murder capital in our country. But, you know that’s not the point. But put aside all that, he makes this idea that there has to be standards, because otherwise they’re going to, the Dems will try to confiscate firearms. They keep trying to do that. And if they ever were to have the power, they would confiscate them. Do you know how I know? They said it. Evan Nappen 36:31 Exactly. They said it, and at times they’ve done it when they could get away with it. That’s right. So, that is a non-starter. I mean, who’s kidding who? And by the way, as a Constitutional right, as opposed to these other things. This is a Constitutional right, and you’re talking about confiscation and seizure. You know what? You know in Germany during the Reich, they called expropriation of property. Those things will be highly disputed. So much so that my guess is, if they actually try it, people will be willing to give them their guns. But bullets first. I’m sure. Page – 9 – of 14 Teddy Nappen 37:21 The number I would put it around, maybe like 3%. Evan Nappen 37:25 Three percent. That’s where. Teddy Nappen 37:26 They might say. Evan Nappen 37:27 Well, that’s plenty, when you start counting what 3% is of all the gun owners out there. But it’s still absolutely within the realm, especially in places where they are not as dedicated and an active part of their life is firearms. So, you do have those areas in the U.S. where they’ve just become sheep over it, right? Teddy Nappen 37:59 Yeah, and this kind of brought up a point. I kind of wanted to think on this. What would it be like if they actually tried it? If they actually, just for the sake of argument, Trump didn’t make it in, unfettered power to the Left, and they actually tried to do a gun confiscation. And funny enough, The Trace laid out the whole plan. (https://www.thetrace.org/2019/09/assault-weapon-buyback-policy-cost-estimates/) Kind of like Operation Sea Lion, Germany’s plan, because we’re talking about the Third Reich after they took Britain, what would they do to Britain? And they lay it out, because they were so sure. It’s by The Trace, the assault weapons buy back policy. Evan Nappen 38:40 So, what is the plan that I’m sure they spent millions in a think tank to come up with? What are the steps that we would expect that they’ve laid out. Teddy Nappen 38:50 To put things in perspective, they assess this is where they were breaking things down, where first the things they the one, number one issue that came into play as they addressed that, the hardest problem is the clear definition of an assault weapon. Evan Nappen 39:07 Yes, they still can’t get past that. Firstly, they still have to deal with whatever the hell that is. Yeah. Teddy Nappen 39:14 So, they cite to the original assault weapon ban. Then they cite to the 2019 attempt, where they list off the semi-automatic with detachable magazine with one offending feature versus two offending features. They list off all the, you know, the bells and whistles, forearm grip telephone, flash suppressor, going down. Evan Nappen 39:35 All which have nothing to do with crime whatsoever. But why should that matter? Page – 10 – of 14 Teddy Nappen 39:39 Yeah, or appears on list individual and just the usual stuff, but not even clearly defining what an assault weapon is. So, that was the first hurdle. Secondly, they tried to estimate the numbers. So, they put it between 3 million to 87 million would fall into the category of assault weapon, yeah, the assault firearms that would be confiscated. That’s their numbers, okay, whatever. And they gauged. Firstly, one of the hardest issues is the compliance issue. I love this. Compliance may be a challenge. Evan Nappen 40:16 Oh, it might be, huh? Yeah, not sure about that. Teddy Nappen 40:19 People may refuse to participate as New Zealand. They always point to Australia and New Zealand. Keep that in mind. Describe compliance rates were unclear at best, low at worst. A risk American legislators, too, would have to contend with. In recent years, the states of Connecticut, New York, and California have passed laws mandating assault weapon owners register their firearms. Keep that in mind, folks. Each has faced extremely low compliance rates. Reportedly, 15% in Connecticut, 5% in New York and California actually comply with the registration process. Evan Nappen 41:00 Sure. We don’t like registration, because we know the four words right? Legislation, Registration, Confiscation and then Extermination. So, we don’t want to fall for that trap. Teddy Nappen 41:10 Well, funny enough, they’re laying out the trap that it takes the registration to do the confiscation. That’s the sort of plan. Evan Nappen 41:16 Right it is. It’s the intermittent step there, and the immediate step that we have to always be on guard for. Teddy Nappen 41:23 Yeah. And the other thing they were leaning on heavily is that they would need local compliance. Vote locally, folks. That is how they do it. They’ll go to sheriffs, and they go to the lower tier to get people in these communities. If you notice, we actually talked about this. Evan Nappen 41:41 Except many sheriffs are not going to want anything to do with it at all. Teddy Nappen 41:48 Yeah, yeah, that is the other fact. And by the way, if anyone ever tells you, the Dems are not trying to take away your guns, they are. You know why? They said it in 2020 during the Democrat primary. Page – 11 – of 14 Evan Nappen 42:03 Right! They did. They’ve admitted to it. They’ve said it more than once, multiple times. That is their ultimate goal. Teddy Nappen 42:10 Yeah, beta or war. Evan Nappen 42:11 Unless you’re trans, unless you’re trans. Teddy Nappen 42:14 Unless you’re trans, of course. They always got to make an exception for peak victimhood. Anyways. Evan Nappen 42:19 Or if you’re an illegal alien. Those are the only exceptions for gun ownership that they’ll allow. Teddy Nappen 42:27 Criminals and trans. Evan Nappen 42:29 Yep. Teddy Nappen 42:29 That’s right, how it goes. But the Beto O’Rourke campaign had said they would do a buyback program, which they’d Institute under the 2019 assault weapon ban, covering all forms of high capacity magazine accessories as well. They would determine the compensation between $200 to $1,000. Isn’t that generous? Evan Nappen 42:52 Hmmm. Oh, a whole $1,000? Wow. Teddy Nappen 42:55 Or would use an independent commission to determine the market value. Those who refused to comply would be fined. Oh, isn’t that nice? And you had Biden, who was all for a national buyback program. They always say, buy back. Evan Nappen 43:12 Yeah, what are they thinking? They’re not buying back anything. Teddy Nappen 43:15 They’re stealing. Page – 12 – of 14 Evan Nappen 43:17 They are stealing it and making forced forfeiture, expropriation of your property. Actually, though, I do know one person who did do a buyback where it truly was a buyback. He had bought guns at a police auction, and then at a buyback, sold them back to the police at a profit. So, that was the only time I ever heard of was truly a buyback. And then I talked to this person, he was able to buy them again from the police auction. So, he did a buy, a buy back, and then bought back from the buyback his guns. So, that guy’s a champion. He gets an award for doing that. Teddy Nappen 44:04 Yeah, what also is very disgusting. So, they also cite to Eric Swalwell. They basically said, oh, I got my mandatory buyback panel. I have mine. You had all of them just saying absolutely at Cory Booker, Biden, all of them just saying, absolutely mandatory gun buyback for assault firearms, absolutely. But this is the scary part. This is the very scary part. They said, how would it be implemented? Well, it’s already proof in concept. Cut to 2018 with the bump stocks, where the agents, they’re sending out their minions to the residents. Evan Nappen 44:41 Oh, yeah. They’ve done it on force reset triggers. They’ve done it on fuel filters which they believe are silencers or suppressors. Yeah, no, no, that. That is definitely an M.O., and Biden was pretty aggressive on those fronts. And absolutely, that’s what you would see. Teddy Nappen 45:00 Yeah, it even says the crack down on bump stocks did not include a buyback, but provided a road map on how the Federal government might put a dollar figure onto the other steps. Basically explaining, we’re going to use guns to come to your property and take your firearms. Amazing. Evan Nappen 45:19 Well, there’s always what is BATF, Teddy. The BATF stands for Bury All Thy Firearms. So, if it ever comes down to the confiscation, just remember BATF. Teddy Nappen 45:34 Yeah. Evan Nappen 45:36 Better than a boating accident. Let’s face it. Teddy Nappen 45:38 Yeah. And the other thing too, with Australia that had the, you know, they did their confiscation. By the way, there’s, I think there’s a million other firearms still in circulation in Australia. It’s just shows. There is no proof in concept. This is what they would do, unfetter. Evan Nappen 45:55 They’re not about that. They just want to go after us because they hate us. They hate firearms, and in the way that they have TDS, they also have GDS, you know, Gun Derangement Syndrome. They focus Page – 13 – of 14 on objects, focus on whatever it is that gets the emotional hatred. That’s where you see them, and this is their agenda. Well, the flight will continue. Evan Nappen 46:26 Let me now talk about our GOFU segment, and that is where we discuss Gun Owner Fuck Ups. The reason we talk about this is because these are expensive lessons individuals have learned that you get to learn for free. These are warnings, because these come from actual cases that Teddy and I are dealing with all the time in the practice. Today’s GOFU is “falsification”. And let me just tell you. When you fill out a gun application, do not give wrong answers. You have to make sure that you understand the question and that you’re giving the proper answer. Because if you give the wrong answer, not only is it a basis to deny your firearm permit, but it is also the basis to criminally charge you with lying on the form, with falsifying. You may say, oh, I didn’t remember, or I didn’t know, or I forgot, or I didn’t understand. And essentially those excuses will fall flat because New Jersey, particularly under the case law in New Jersey, it’s virtually, virtually a strict liability type problem. Evan Nappen 47:56 So, if you are filling out a gun form and you have questions, talk to an attorney that knows gun law and can help you put the correct answer down. You do not want to have a falsification that will then have the ability to escalate. Let’s say, you are a firearms ID card holder and you apply for a pistol purchase permit, and then you apply for your carry permit, and for some reason, on your carry application, you put a wrong answer down. Well, it’s the same licensing criteria for all three licenses. Under N.J.S. 2C:58-3.c., it’s the same criteria for all three licenses. There are other additional requirements for getting a carry permit, but the criteria is identical. Well, if you become denied on your carry, then the next thing they’re going to do is file to take away your firearms ID card, your handgun purchase permits, and then attempt to forfeit and steal all your guns. So, be very, very careful. Do not do a GOFU on answering the forms. Take it very seriously. Be very careful. Read the questions thoroughly and always tell the truth. Evan Nappen 49:22 This is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens. Speaker 2 49:33 Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state. Page – 14 – of 14 Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S3 E254_Transcript About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets. Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News. As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists. He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America. Email Evan Your Comments and Questions  [email protected] Join Evan’s InnerCircleHere’s your chance to join an elite group of the Savviest gun and knife owners in America.  Membership is totally FREE and Strictly CONFIDENTIAL.  Just enter your email to start receiving insider news, tips, and other valuable membership benefits.   Email (required) *First Name *Select list(s) to subscribe toInnerCircle Membership Yes, I would like to receive emails from Gun Lawyer Podcast. (You can unsubscribe anytime)Constant Contact Use. Please leave this field blank.var ajaxurl = "https://gun.lawyer/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php";

  Episode 253-Gun Bans For Trans Also Available OnSearchable Podcast Transcript Gun Lawyer — Episode 253 Transcript SUMMARY KEYWORDS Second Amendment, trans shooter, New Jersey gun laws, mental health, transgender patients, psychiatric drugs, mass shootings, red flag laws, gun rights, gun control, Saturday Night Special, gun ownership, self-defense, gun laws, gun rights oppression. SPEAKERS Evan Nappen, Speaker 2, Teddy Nappen EvanNappen 00:15 I’m Evan Nappen. Teddy Nappen 00:17 And I’m Teddy Nappen, EvanNappen 00:19 and welcome to Gun Lawyer. So, I’m sure you’ve been watching the news as they talk about the trans shooter in Minnesota. It’s getting all kinds of publicity. And it is, of course, a chance for the Second Amendment rights oppressors to do a blood dance and to demand further infringements on our Second Amendment rights. As the old saying goes, let no tragedy go to waste. This is, of course, their standard MO. However, interestingly. Teddy Nappen 01:07 Where now the mayor doesn’t even want us to even mention the trans. Don’t focus on that. Only focus on the inanimate object. EvanNappen 01:16 Only on the gun. Yeah, not anything to do with motivation or the actual person. And so what I found interesting here, and it really is interesting, and something that you may not have seen this or heard this point made before, is, look, I’m hardly a fan of New Jersey’s gun rights suppression laws, and that’s probably an understatement, but one thing that I don’t think the left, in their zest to take away rights, realizes that New Jersey actually has gun laws that dramatically remove trans from being able to possess firearms. Now, of course, New Jersey doesn’t want to emphasize this, and this whole issue of trans and guns and mass shooting gets totally politicized. EvanNappen 02:16 So, if you google this, you’ll get all this Google stuff about, oh no, no, no, you can’t, that’s not a legitimate link. And there was only, you know, they tried to limit. Only a half a dozen of the mass shootings were done by trans, you know, or something, as opposed to so-called CIS males and all this crap. Well, let’s just step aside from the debate about whether the trans issue is an issue or not, and Page – 1 – of 12 instead, take an interesting look at what New Jersey does to ban trans from having guns. You may not have realized that New Jersey gun laws do this, but I want to explain to you exactly how they do it. And if the left is so hot on dispelling the myth of trans being mass shooters or having anything to do with that one, of course, they just want to blame the gun. Well, let’s take a look at how New Jersey operates in creating the trans gun ban. EvanNappen 03:26 So, remember New Jersey in their regulation of firearms, particularly under N.J.S. 2C:58-3c., you find the criteria for which you can be prohibited from having a firearm. And when it comes to mental health- type questions, New Jersey says, have you ever been treated or observed by any doctor or psychiatrist? So, if that’s the case, you’re going to have to tell them, and then you’re going to have to get a doctor’s letter that you’re safe for firearms. And that’s hard to do because doctors don’t want that liability, and even if they believe 100% that you’re safe with guns, they don’t really want to put their ass on the line for you. So, that’s one hurdle. The other is whether you, and remember, this was just recently passed by Murphy, by the way, in the Carry Killer bill, whether you’ve had not just an involuntary mental health commitment, but even a voluntary mental health commitment. So, those are two mechanisms to disqualify an individual from being able to exercise their Second Amendment rights in New Jersey. EvanNappen 04:40 And so, if we go to the NIH, the National Library of Medicine (NLM), they have a very interesting article called “Mental Health Diagnoses Among Transgender Patients In Clinical Setting: An All-Payer Electronic Health Record Study”. (https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6830528/) That’s the name of this article. And remember, this article was not done with any focus regarding firearms. Instead, this article is written to try to point out just how much mental health problems transgender patients suffer in statistically significant increase in prevalence for all psychiatric diagnoses. Let’s take a look at just how much psychological problem exists in transgender versus what is the control population, not including the transgender. So, listen to this. Number one, approximately 58% of transgender patients had at least one DSM-5 (Diagnostic and Statistical of Mental Disorders – Fifth Edition) diagnosis compared with 13.6 of cisgender patients. And of course, cisgender is what? What? In the old days, you may have called normal people, right? But not anymore. No, that’s cisgender, you see. So, hey, but whatever you want to call it, look at the difference in just those numbers. EvanNappen 06:28 And if you go down the specific disorders, it’s really pretty fascinating in terms of percent. So, for mood disorders, transgender is 46% compared to the control population, you know, the non-transgender of 9%. Staggering difference in mood disorder. How about major depressive disorder? Well, that’s 31% to 4.8. Bipolar disorder is 11% versus 1.3%. Anxiety disorder, 31% versus 6%. Then panic disorder is 4.4% for trans versus .74%. Phobic disorders. Oh, man, look at this one. So, we’ve got social phobia with 2.1% versus .06% for the general population. How about post-traumatic stress disorder? That’s 6.7 vs. 2.52 percent. How about schizophrenia? That’s 2.5% versus .37%. Schizoaffective disorder? Two point two, 2.2 for trans versus .16 for general. I mean, it just goes on and on of every psychological where trans is far outnumbered. They just completely blow away the statistics to the control group. Page – 2 – of 12 EvanNappen 08:21 So, what does this mean? This means that trans that suffer from these incredibly statistically greater psychological issues have, in fact, then had what? Ever been treated or observed for any mental condition? Seen any doctor about it? Therefore, there’s going to be a major difference in the number of trans that are going to get that “basis for denial” out of New Jersey. And what about just voluntary commitments because they’re suffering from this? So, when you actually look at the data, you find that New Jersey’s law will disproportionately, at least in terms of these stats, affect trans and I’m not and maybe they should. I don’t know. That you can debate. But the fact is, it does. It does, and that’s really interesting, because I don’t think the left had that as what their intent is. EvanNappen 09:27 As a matter of fact, from an article here, from Not The Bee, the title is “Libs are triggered because RFK just weighed in on the gun debate with a comment about psych meds”. (https:// notth ebee.c om/a rticle/cue -the -libs-bec ause- rfk-jr -just-weig hed -into-t he-g un-d ebat e-we- are- the- most-over-medicated-nation-in-the-world) And what RFK is pointing out that, you know, we’ve had guns in America like forever, as long as we’ve had America. But it’s only been recent times we’ve seen these mass random shootings. As he points out, what has changed is the over medication. EvanNappen 10:02 And let me just quote RFK here. “I certainly consider mass shootings a health crisis, and we are doing, for the first time, real studies to find out what the etiology of that is. And we’re looking for the first time at psychiatric drugs. You know these kinds of mass shootings – people have had guns in this country forever. When I was a kid, we had shooting clubs in our school . . . there never has been a time in history of humanity when people walked into a crowd, church, movie theater, school and just started randomly shooting. It’s happening in our country. It’s not happening around the world. And there are many countries that have comparable levels of guns that have not that we have in this country. . . Something changed that dramatically changed human behavior and one of the culprits we need to examine is whether the fact that we are the most overmedicated nation in the world, and a lot of these psychiatric drugs that have the black box warning on them, those warnings of homicidal and suicidal ideation.” Boy, look at that, huh. EvanNappen 11:16 Then you can follow it up even more from RFK, where he’s looking specifically at gender transition drugs. There are side effects to the gender transition drugs that contribute to these problems, and they’re looking at that. Imagine that. And of course, the Left wants nothing to do with this, but here quoting RFK. Some of the SSRI drugs and some other psychiatric drugs that might be contributing to violence, he added, referring to Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors that are used to treat depression. Again, he’s talking about the black box warning and focusing on the actual drug issue in our country. And what’s fascinating is New Jersey has actually structured its gun laws so that it creates the ban. So, if you really want to ever say, hey, New Jersey gun laws may actually have some effect, well, what it’s affecting is that. Page – 3 – of 12 EvanNappen 12:26 And of course, you watch the liberal media just melt down if you ever try to blame transgender ideology for school shooting and not guns. But it’s not just ideology, because you can tie it, apparently, and this is where the research is going to the medications themselves and the people that have committed these violent acts, what I prefer to call atrocities and then tragedies. Do you realize that that Minneapolis shooter sought out gun free zone as a location for the attack? I’m reading from a Bearing Arms article by Cam Edwards. (https://bearingarms.com/camedwards/2025/08/29/minneapolis-shooter- gun-free-zone-n1229760) Cam points out that the New York Post reporter was able to get to the shooter’s manifesto, a portion of it, on X. And from this post, it says that he liked that the school would not have counter shooters. It seems that the kind of school not to arm their teachers. You see they’re looking for that victim disarmament zone, and we see this come up with these shooters. Teddy Nappen 13:49 So YouTube actually tried to suppress the manifesto because the shooter had uploaded it, a timed upload, and tried to delete it. I always love how the big tech agencies always sorry, big tech companies, always try to suppress the message. They always try to hide the manifestos of these shooters every single time. EvanNappen 14:14 Uhm, if it doesn’t fit the narrative, Teddy. Teddy Nappen 14:16 Unless it’s someone wearing a Trump hat, which over most of them are usually just for what we’ve seen of them, mostly, you know all, oh, a threat to democracy. EvanNappen 14:26 From the Left, the violent Left. The Left is the violent ones. They’re where the real violence stems from. And we see that over and over again. So, you know, they need to look deeper than the norm, which is always just “blame the gun”. They just want to use it as an excuse to take away our guns. Teddy Nappen 14:46 Something pretty funny. If this would be an Avenue, you know, how they we are always trying to fight ICE and try to eliminate Red Flag laws and try to eliminate disqualifiers. EvanNappen 14:51 Oh, Yeah. Teddy Nappen 15:00 I would love to see a challenge with the Association, also sponsored by the Trevor Project, knocking out the Red Flag laws because it’s transphobic. That would be great. EvanNappen 15:12 Well, the thing is, the red flag laws in New Jersey, called ERPOs (Extreme Risk Protection Orders) and TERPOs (Temporary Extreme Risk Protection Orders) could easily be applied to going after trans to Page – 4 – of 12 disarm them, when this amount of psychological problems exist. It’s so easy to do Red Flag in New Jersey, where we see folks getting swatted under this. And this really opens up for the trans issue itself to become a subject of Red Flag easily. What is New Jersey TERPO? It’s actually waiting out there. And I’m sure we’ll see that occur more and more. On one hand, they want to call for Red Flag laws, but I don’t think they’ll have realized that it can become a tool used to go at trans, particularly over their extremely high psychological problems compared to the general population. So, it opens the door for that, and it’s really something. Teddy Nappen 16:19 Honestly, and this is the sad part. I could see them carving out an exception if you’re trans that Red Flag and the blocks don’t apply. If they do that, it’d be the one time they do a pro gun thing. EvanNappen 16:35 Of course, they can carve that out because they’ve already done similar Left wing issue carve outs. I’ll give you a good example. If you are a fugitive from justice, you are prohibited from getting a gun in New Jersey — unless you’re a fugitive from justice because you got an illegal abortion done. Then New Jersey is fine with you getting a gun. They exempt those that got illegal abortions or helped to provide illegal abortions or helped individuals to get illegal abortions. That’s exempt. That’s an exception to New Jersey’s fugitive from justice. You know, a fugitive, when you’re under criminal charges or indictment, that’s an exception for New Jersey. So, yeah, Teddy, you’re right. I could easily see them creating exemption for the factions that they want to support and not have it applied evenly across the board. Teddy Nappen 17:37 Quite frankly, and this is the sad part. Here are the two key things. Number one, identify as trans. There’s a 42% suicide rate before or after affirmation. It does not change. The stats stay the same. EvanNappen 17:54 And that’s a very sad fact that there is that mental health issue that makes them prone to suicide, and that really needs to be addressed. And yet, suicide is one of the issues that the gun rights oppression folks always try to use. But, again, it’s going to have the disproportionate effect on stopping the exercise of gun rights by individuals such as trans. But then again, some say, well, we are saving lives, arguably, and that’s what they want to do. Then having that prohibition is something they want to see. But you’re pointing out a very valid statistic just in terms of trans themselves having that increased risk of suicide. Teddy Nappen 18:44 Yeah, and it kind of comes back to the idea of they’re being sold a false bill of goods. And when it and when reality sets in, that’s when that statistic comes into play. And it’s quite disgusting. They trick these individuals thinking, oh yeah, you have all these mental health problems, just become a woman and that solves all of it. EvanNappen 19:09 And then it doesn’t, and they get very frustrated. The medications apparently help them along to these other ideations. So, I’m glad they’re taking a good hard look at it and seeing because if it’s not Page – 5 – of 12 something that is actually good for people, instead, if it was something that was just sold for other consumption reasons, maybe medical money-making reasons, or those kind of things, then it needs to be looked at, right? Teddy Nappen 19:42 It’s actually proven for money-making reasons. I believe it was in Tennessee. There was the hospital where they actually had a public forum and open log video that broke it down and said how much money they could make from not only the repeated surgeries for trans individuals, but the massive amount from the drugs that are used. EvanNappen 20:07 Oh, yeah, of course. Teddy Nappen 20:08 By the way, there are multiple surgeries that you have to get because you can’t just. It’s not one and done. You’re chopped. They go in multiple times, and that becomes very expensive. EvanNappen 20:18 So it’s a very lucrative area of practice, huh? Teddy Nappen 20:23 Yeah, well, you know. EvanNappen 20:25 Well, here’s something on a little bit of a more fun subject. I don’t know if any of you ever read the Babylon Bee, which is a parody website. They do fun parody articles and a lot of good satire and humor there, at least I think so. Anyway, one of their satire articles recently caught my eye, and I wanted to share it with you, Teddy, and our listeners. The headline of the Babylon Bee article is, “New ‘Clue’ Board Game for Liberals Just Has You Blame The Murder Weapon”. (https://babylonbee.com/news/new-clue-board-game-for-liberals-just-has-you-blame-the-murder- weapon) So, this is really great. They say here, this is from the article. Hasbro Gaming has announced it’s expanding its board game library with a brand new version of ‘Clue’ where you blame the murder weapon and never solve any crimes. Clue, the Liberal Edition was being called the most interesting update in years to the popular game. EvanNappen 21:26 Then it goes on to make it clear. It says, Bobby, a cisgender white health insurer CEO and compete to be the first one to blame the murder weapon? Where was Mr. Body murdered? With what weapon? Was it justified? These answers must be answered before a Liberal can safely close the case and save the world. Mr. Bobby was killed with a gun. We need common sense gun laws, a happy looking non- binary person said in an excited TV spot advertising the product. So, the Liberal Edition of ‘Clue’ makes it clear when it says here, when asked who the perpetrator of the murder was, clue, the Liberal Edition’s designer, Adrian Rance, responded, perpetrator? Those don’t exist. The weapons and only the Page – 6 – of 12 weapons are to blame. So, there you go. That’s the new version, the Liberal version of ‘Clue’, where you simply blame the weapon. That’s pretty clever. So, there you go. Teddy Nappen 22:40 Candle stick control. EvanNappen 22:43 Oh, my God, you’re telling me. So, let us also mention our good friends at WeShoot. WeShoot is indoor range in Lakewood. That’s where Teddy and I both shoot, and we love it there. Well, they’re doing great training. You can get your New York carry and your New Jersey carry. You can get everything you need so you can expand your ability to be a defender instead of a victim. They have fantastic not just training, but also facility and a great pro shop. It’s a great resource right there in Lakewood, right off, easily, off the parkway. So, if you’re in Central New Jersey, you want to make sure that you go to WeShoot. You can check out their website at weshootusa.com. They have beautiful photos, and you don’t want to miss the WeShoot girls posing with really nice weapons. You will enjoy every bit of your perusal through their website. When you go there, make sure that you take advantage of their great sales and deals. Their membership options are excellent. We just love it at WeShoot, and I know you will too. So check out weshootusa.com, weshootusa.com, weshootusa.com. EvanNappen 24:16 Let’s also mention our good friends at the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs, ANJRPC. They are the premier gun rights protection organization in New Jersey. They’re an umbrella organization of gun clubs. But you can be an individual member, and you should become one. Because as an individual member, you’ll be sent the emails alerting to all the shenanigans going on in Trenton and be able to take steps to protect our rights. They’re the ones actively involved in litigating in federal court, challenging these gun rights oppression laws that we’re constantly being hit with. They also are on guard in Trenton with a full-time paid lobbyist. They are the group so you can help fight for our rights in New Jersey. And people say, oh, Evan, what can I do? What can I do? And I say, listen, one thing you can absolutely do is join the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. And I’m not saying don’t join any other gun group. Join them all, but make sure you’re a member of the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. They’re the NRA affiliate. They’re the largest of all the state gun rights groups, and they put out a fantastic newsletter. You really need to be a member to stand tall with your brothers and sisters in the movement. Go to anjrpc.org and join today. EvanNappen 25:52 Now, let me shamelessly promote my book, New Jersey Gun Law, the Bible of New Jersey gun law. Make sure you get your copy. And when you get it, never lend it to a friend because you’ll never get it back. I get that all the time. So, you could buy a copy for your friend, that might be good, but make sure you hold tight to your copy. It is amazingly useful if you want to stay a free person in New Jersey and not be subject to the Gun Owner Gulag. At least increase your odds of that not happening by understanding New Jersey’s very complicated, nonsensical, counter intuitive, absurdly draconian gun laws. Yes, I wrote the book to help you navigate through that mess. It’s over 500 pages with 120 topics, all in a Question and Answer format. At least as easy as I can try to make it, given that we’re dealing with New Jersey gun laws. When you get your copy, scan the front cover where you see that QR code, Page – 7 – of 12 and make sure you join my free, 100% free, subscriber private database where I send out emails of updates and other news bits. So, make sure you do that, and you’ll be able to immediately go to the archives and download the 2025 Comprehensive Update, which has full updates on chapters and a standalone chapter on “sensitive places” — where you can and can’t carry. Go to EvanNappen.com, EvanNappen.com. That’s my name and add the .com. You’ll see the big orange book right there, and you can order your copy today. So, Teddy, what do you have to share with us on Press Checks? Teddy Nappen 27:41 Well, as you know, Press Checks are always free. One thing I’ve kind of moved around with this whole segment is that I want to show everyone that way to look at the anti gun agenda and how to counteract and kind of understand it. Look to history. And I sit down and I ask myself, what is the thing being said? You know, we just had another mass shooting from another trans individual. And of course, they don’t want to talk about the person. What do they always say? Oh, we’ve got to stop the high capacity magazine. We’ve got to ban assault firearms. One ban that also comes up that I have heard is, oh, we’ve got to limit the amount of purchases of handguns. And I was curious? Who sparked that idea? Who was the first, and what was the origins and purpose of that idea? And kind of wanting to explore and pull research, I actually found the original article in the New York Times from 1975. “Curbs on Purchase of Pistols Enacted by South Carolina”. (https://www.nytimes.com/1975/06/18/archives/curbs- on-purchase-of-pistols-enacted-by-south-carolina.html) They were the first state to curb purchases of pistols. It was enacted by South Carolina Governor James Edwards. He signed into law legislation to prohibit the sale of more than one pistol to any person in a period of 30 days. Limit purchases of pistols. EvanNappen 29:11 Can you believe that it was a southern state that did that? Teddy Nappen 29:15 Southern Democrats. What do you expect? EvanNappen 29:17 There you go. You nailed it. Teddy Nappen 29:18 Every time. But he also signed the companion measure. This raised the legal standard for handguns and action directed against cheaply made weapons, all calibers, known as Saturday Night Specials. So, the Left’s entire argument about we’ve got to stop these mass shooters. We need to limit purchases. It goes back to it was a way to curb Saturday Night Specials, which here we are again. We were just talking about the mass suicide rate of trans individuals. Here they are right now, arguing it once more. It always goes back to trying to stop the myth that is the Saturday Night Special. EvanNappen 29:59 Well, let me tell you. You know, the history of Saturday Night Special, which doesn’t surprise me that they’re talking that language in the south goes directly to racism. And it’s a fact. Bruce-Briggs, in the article that he wrote in the public interest, pointed out that the Saturday Night Special comes from the original term of what was the N-word Saturday Night, and that Saturday night, the N word Saturday Page – 8 – of 12 night, or N word town Saturday night. That was known as the special in racist terms. (https://www.nationalaffairs.com/public_interest/detail/the-great-american-gun-war) So, the gun from that became known as Saturday Night Special. It has its roots in racism. So, the South was focused on so-called Saturday Night Specials because it was a less expensive handgun that poor, you know, less economically advantaged folks could purchase to actually defend themselves. And so, it’s rooted in racism. EvanNappen 31:15 This was the only ever. Get the book by Robert Sherrill. Sherrill wrote a book ‘The Saturday Night Special”. (Penguin Books, 1975) Sherrill was an anti-gun rights oppressionists, basically, but it doesn’t matter. Because he points out in the book “The Saturday Night Special” that the ’68 Gun Control Act was essentially not passed to control guns, but passed to control blacks. This was their pursuit. The pursuit was, how can we, and this is literally from the book, “disarm those people”. How do we stop “those people” from getting guns? And through the ’60s, with the rise of black power and all that, they became more and more afraid. Hence, we saw the growth of, the explosion, essentially, in racist gun laws and the underpinning to the gun rights oppression tied to race. EvanNappen 32:20 And that’s still taking place today in New Jersey, as the statistics show on who’s getting denied permits. Blacks get denied more than two to one to whites, strictly under, by the way, what I call the all-inclusive, miscellaneous weasel clause, which is “public health, safety, and welfare”. Where you get subjective denials that routinely disproportionately deny blacks. So, racism is still institutionalized throughout the gun laws, Teddy, and you’re talking now about yet another attempt by one gun a month, selling it in the same way. Teddy Nappen 33:03 It’s very funny. Five states that currently have the one gun-a-month style of law, the big one, California, Connecticut, Maryland, and oh, of course. New Jersey, again, and Virginia. Funny enough, South Carolina removed it. So. EvanNappen 33:22 Right! Exactly. Teddy Nappen 33:23 The very people that sparked this idea, this very racist law, got rid of it, showing very well how racist it is. But, of course, the anti-gunners. But this is the crux, and we’ve got to remember this. New York City also has one. They have an ordinance limiting the number of handgun purchases to one per month. So, oh, again, always look out. EvanNappen 33:49 They may even have a possession limit to two, like, generally. I’m not a New York attorney, but I think that New York City limits even the number of guns you can have. Page – 9 – of 12 Teddy Nappen 33:59 What they have is city limits on all firearm purchases. EvanNappen 34:02 Maybe they got rid of that. Teddy Nappen 34:03 One handgun and one rifle or shotgun every 90 days. They limit to one gun, not just a handgun. And EvanNappen 34:11 Y eah. Teddy Nappen 34:12 It shows the level they’re willing to go to, and that is always something you’ve got to watch out for. Especially like if locals that they state doesn’t have, what is it, gun rights? Where they stop the locals passing. EvanNappen 34:28 Oh, yeah, that’s statewide preemption. Preemption. The state law becomes controlling, and towns can’t make their own laws. So, you don’t get a patchwork quilt of gun laws through the state. The state has one law that controls the whole subject matter. Yeah. Teddy Nappen 34:48 This also came from Gifford. (https://giffords.org/lawcenter/gun-laws/policy-areas/crime-guns/bulk-gun- purchases/) So, they’re promoting, of course, racist laws. EvanNappen 34:52 Of course! Teddy Nappen 34:53 Racist laws. What do you expect? EvanNappen 34:57 Well, it’s all part of their blood dance. Anytime they get the opportunity. So, well, Teddy, I appreciate your bringing up one gun a month, and it’s interesting history. Now I want to go to one of the more popular of our discussion segments, which is the GOFU, which is, of course, the Gun Owner Fuck Up. We look at cases and such where gun owners have made errors or could have done better, or things they need to be aware of. And this one is something I recently came across from TAG, which is Truth About Guns, another great resource for great gun information. This is Scott Witner. He points this out in his article, “When Owning an AK-47 Becomes a Courtroom Liability”. (https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/when-owning-an-ak-47-becomes-a-courtroom-liability/) And this is very interesting. It’s things you do need to consider. Page – 10 – of 12 EvanNappen 35:54 He talks about how, in this Texas case, where in Texas, a mock jury study identify identical self- defense scenarios. In other words, they had mock juries and they had identical self-defense scenarios. The only difference is that there were drastically different verdicts, depending on whether the defendant used a shotgun, a Mini-14, or an AR 15. Again, there’s an argument here that AK-47 is carrying even greater stigma. So, what happens is juries get influenced by the type of firearm used. Not just even whether you put some crazy name on your gun, like Death Slayer 2000 or something like that, which is really a dumb move. But the fact as to what the gun is. Look, it’s not every time, but you know, if you say, as he points out in the article, if they say AR-15, and jurors may think of Kyle Rittenhouse, or say AK-47 and images conjured is Osama bin Laden, etc. EvanNappen 37:16 And so, he points out in the article, in a case study of State versus Ndolo, NDOLO. In this Arizona case, the defendant fired warning shots from a .22 rifle during a dispute with movers. Police later searched his home and found a loaded AK-47 that played no role in this thing, nothing. They just found the AK as well. The prosecutors in the case presented the AK showing that Ndolo was predisposed to violence. Imagine that argument. You’re predisposed to violence because you have an AK, and the judge allowed it. The jury convicted him of aggravated assault and sentenced him to seven years. And even though the Appellate Court later agreed that the AK should have been excluded as irrelevant, they still upheld the conviction, calling it “harmless error”. Are you kidding me? Do you think the jury wasn’t influenced by prejudicial presentation that they happen to also own an AK-47 that had nothing to do with the case? EvanNappen 38:44 And this article is a very good article here. It points out other examples, too. Anderson versus State (Georgia), where a defendant tried to claim self-defense by pointing an AK-47 and the court excluded it, ruling that the gun had no direct connection and it would confuse the jury. And then in Davis versus Carter, prosecutors introduced evidence that the defendant owned an AK-47, six months prior to the shooting. Even though it was unrelated, the jury heard it anyway, painting them as, “a dangerous type”. So, you know the type of gun matters. You better keep this in mind, even in terms of firearms that you own. And if you’re ever in a self- defense situation, you better make sure that your lawyer really, really fights hard to keep out any of these other guns so that juries, who don’t understand firearms, will not become prejudiced over just the type of gun you owned, and even worse, the type that you used. So, honestly, beware of it and don’t be a GOFU. Teddy Nappen 39:54 Actually, it kind of reminds of that judge who swept you with AR. EvanNappen 40:04 Oh god, yeah. They have no clue how to do gun handling. So. Teddy Nappen 40:08 Because he did not know that. He’s like, this is an assault firearm, and he waved it in front of you. Page – 11 – of 12 EvanNappen 40:15 I’m like, I know. Just yeah. The danger is the ignorance that runs through the gun rights oppressionists and suppressionists that just keep pushing the lies and the ignorance. But what can you do? We got to stay on our path of education, which is the reason for this show. Hey, this is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens. Speaker 2 40:52 Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state. Page – 12 – of 12 Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S3 E253_Transcript About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets. Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News. As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists. He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America. Email Evan Your Comments and Questions  [email protected] Join Evan’s InnerCircleHere’s your chance to join an elite group of the Savviest gun and knife owners in America.  Membership is totally FREE and Strictly CONFIDENTIAL.  Just enter your email to start receiving insider news, tips, and other valuable membership benefits.   Email (required) *First Name *Select list(s) to subscribe toInnerCircle Membership Yes, I would like to receive emails from Gun Lawyer Podcast. (You can unsubscribe anytime)Constant Contact Use. Please leave this field blank.var ajaxurl = "https://gun.lawyer/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php";

  Episode 252-Adventures In Self-Defense Also Available OnSearchable Podcast Transcript Gun Lawyer — Episode 252 Transcript SUMMARY KEYWORDS self-defense, home invasion, deadly force, criminal record, Illinois police, mother and baby, screwdriver, gloves, burglary, fear for life, carjacking, property vs life, defensive property, bear defense, Florida law SPEAKERS Speaker 2, Teddy Nappen, Evan Nappen Evan Nappen 00:15 Hello and welcome to Gun Lawyer. I’m Evan Nappen. Teddy Nappen 00:20 And I’m Teddy Nappen. Evan Nappen 00:23 Teddy, I want to talk to you about a couple interesting self-defense cases that have seemed to come up simultaneously, and they raise issues that, you know, you need to learn from. It’s something that any one of us might imagine going through these scenarios, and you should really think about how you want to react and what you’re going to do and what you shouldn’t do. Because remember, once that bullet leaves the barrel, you can’t call it back. You’re going to have to deal with the consequences, and you want to make sure that you end up justified in your use of deadly force, which is what we commonly call self-defense. Evan Nappen 01:18 Yet, here’s a story, this is out of Blaze Media about a mother hiding from a home invader in a closet with her baby, and then she ends up shooting the thug in the head, police say. (http://www.jeroldlevine.com/criminalandweaponcases.html) So, this guy with a long criminal record apparently broke into the wrong home after discovering an armed mother. This is according to the Illinois Police. It occurred in Joliet and the Joliet PD said they responded to a residence on Hadrian Drive in the far west side of Joliet at about 10:30 p. They say they saw signs of forced entry at the home and found an unresponsive man on the second floor with gunshot injuries, and he was pronounced dead by paramedics. They also found a woman at the home with her baby, and the woman told the police that she hid in the closet of her bedroom with her child. At some point, the man came in the bedroom, and at that point, she shot him in the head. The police further say they found a screwdriver in the man’s possession, and he was wearing gloves at the time. Evan Nappen 03:04 By the way, his name is Hurd, and he had been convicted of burglaries in 2022 and 2023 as well as identity theft and burglary in another county. He was paroled in February 2024. How nice. So, this character ends up basically picking the wrong house, and apparently only the mother and the child Page – 1 – of 13 were the only people home at the time of the attempted robbery. So, here you have a home invasion. Arguably, he had a weapon. We don’t know if he threatened her with the weapon or not, but plainly, she was scared for her life. She barricaded herself and hid. She’s protecting her child. I cannot imagine that a prosecutor wants to put this case in front of a jury. I mean, seriously, a mother protecting her baby from some repeat offender breaking into the home. This is the kind of case where you see a lot of downsides if the state is even going to try to prosecute her, and it doesn’t say they are. Even though it’s in one of those blue cancer states of America, Illinois. Even in Illinois, I don’t think they want a jury with a mother and her baby hiding in fear in a closet, having to defend themselves against a break-in burglary with this guy. Teddy Nappen 04:52 So, did they describe the guy who she had shot? Like, who? Evan Nappen 04:56 Only that he had numerous priors and had been on parole and had his screwdriver in his pocket. Also, he was wearing gloves, so he wouldn’t, you know, obviously leave fingerprints. So, this is obviously a guy who’s a career criminal doing at least burglaries. It didn’t mention that he had violent convictions. But, nonetheless, maybe he never encountered anybody before. Teddy Nappen 05:28 They would have let him out even if he had violent convictions. Evan Nappen 05:30 Oh, well, of course, in that, in that, you know. Yeah, it’s always, let these folks out. And so, you know, I can see the justification. Although you know it might be able to be argued. We don’t know all the facts. That, you know, she’s gonna have to. What she’s gonna have to do, if she’s put to the task of having to do it. But I would think any decent attorney would be able to make this showing. That she was in absolute fear. Fear for her life. Fear for her baby’s life. Over this intruder who had forced entry come into her home, and prosecutors normally give more consideration when you’re defending your home than if you’re out on the street. Juries don’t have a lot of sympathy for people that break into homes. No less break into homes where you only have a mother and a baby hiding in fear. Teddy Nappen 06:33 Unfortunately, the biggest issue is that they very much, the anti-gunners, have learned that, okay, we are losing the legal battle on people possessing firearms. So, we’re going to go after people to the tenth degree of the law, if you ever use that firearm. So, I would actually think they’re going to go after her because they want to make examples. Evan Nappen 06:58 Well, you’re right that they want to do that, but this case would be so perilous for the state to embark upon. I can well see just an uproar, even in Illinois, over a mother defending herself and her baby. I just don’t think they would want to touch it, even though normally they love to prosecute law-abiding citizens who defend themselves. Page – 2 – of 13 Teddy Nappen 07:24 It also depends on, it also depends on if the guy she shot was a Michael Jackson impersonator. Evan Nappen 07:35 Well, this is going to be of great consideration, but it seems like he wasn’t moonwalking at the time. So, I think she’ll be okay here. But, you know, when you think about your own personal security, this is a reason why, if you’re a guy, you want your wife or significant other in the household to also be able to defend themselves in case of threats. And the best way is, you know, just take them to the range and break your loved ones in slowly with guns, You know, teach them safety. They may even end up really enjoying shooting on top of it. Then you’ll know that you’ll have a safer household. And you want to do it right. Maybe look to also get some professional training, where they can go into courses as well. It’s the kind of thing you should think about. Because these kind of stories, it could have went the other way. If this guy decided he didn’t want any witnesses and took care of them both with a screwdriver, you wouldn’t even hear about it. It wouldn’t even be a blip on the news anymore. So, this is one self- defense case. Evan Nappen 09:01 Now, at the same time, there’s another case I saw that I thought was interesting. And this one, you know, the Babylon Bee is a parody site, and they have some hilarious, hilarious parodies. So, if you don’t, if you’ve never read a Babylon Bee or, I mean, just subscribe for free. They’re the funniest stuff. They send you emails of their parody stories, just hilarious. But they also have a news aggregate where they send out news called “Not the Bee”. So, these are stories that are very interesting. And sometimes you think, is this a parody? But it’s not. It’s “Not the Bee”. These are actually real things. Now this is not the least bit funny, the next story I want to tell you. But it does demonstrate where you have to understand the law regarding the use of deadly force. Evan Nappen 09:56 In this case, from the Not the Bee, they talk about an Afghan vet getting 54 years in prison for killing a teen who tried to steal his wife’s car. Okay? (https://notthebee.com/article/vet-gets-54-years-in-jail-for- killing-black-teen-who-tried-to-steal-his-car-youre-gonna-want-to-read-this-one-if-you-carry-a-blaster- for-defense) This fellow’s name is Orest Schur, and he’s going to, apparently, spend over half a century in jail. He was an ex-Space Force Sergeant. He’s been sentenced to 54 years in prison for the fatal shooting. He was a 27- year-old sergeant in the U.S. Space Force, and the incident happened in July 2023. He lived in Aurora, Colorado, where he worked as a signals intelligence analyst at Buckley Space Force Base before transferring to the Space Force. He served two tours in Afghanistan with the U.S. Army, earning 14 service medals in the process. So, apparently, on July 5, 2023, about 11 pm, he woke up to the sound of alarm on his wife’s Hyundai Elantra. He grabbed his handgun and went outside. He saw two people dressed in black attempting to get in the vehicle. His wife called 911. Evan Nappen 11:23 Now this apparently was the third attempted car theft at their home. Three times, the guy has gone through this garbage. So, you can understand he’s not real happy that this is happening again. But still, the use of deadly force, you don’t do it in anger. Okay? Then what happened was Schur confronted the individuals, but the carjackers fled in another car. Then the sergeant gave chase in his car and fired Page – 3 – of 13 multiple rounds at the teens. The suspects, they’re driving a stolen Kia Rio, by the way. So, they’re already in a stolen car. They crashed like four blocks south of his home, and the two of them jumped out of the car. The sergeant continued shooting at them as they ran away on foot, and it turns out that the two were 13 and 14 year old black boys. That’s what the article says. Neither was armed. The older of the two, Xavier Kirk, died, and the younger of the two survived, despite taking a round to the back. Evan Nappen 13:01 The judge sentenced Schur to 54 years in prison, 36 years for murder and 18 years for attempted murder. Now the person, the boy who survived, had this to say, and I quote. “An adult chose to use deadly force against two unarmed teenagers. That is not justice, that is not safety, that is that is not accountability. I survived, but I am not the same. My friend didn’t survive at all. And no matter what we did that night, I didn’t deserve to be shot, and Xavier didn’t deserve to die.” So, this is what is put forward. Evan Nappen 13:45 So, folks, I’ve often tried to make it clear and drill it in to lawful defenders’ heads that there are three key things. Three important concepts that you always want to keep about your mindset. Number one is, do not ever use deadly force when you’re just talking about property. That’s all that was at stake here. A vehicle is property. Life wins over property! Do not use your gun strictly in defense of property. Now, if they had been armed or if they attempted to go after the sergeant and even take away his gun to use against him or anything like that, but there was no threat made against him. He wanted to stop these thefts, obviously. He was upset about it. He didn’t want these folks to get away, figuring they’re committing, arguably, felonies, car thefts, etc. I get what might have been running through his head, folks. But overriding all of it has to be, you know, life wins over property. You know, and hindsight is 20/20, but you better make it foresight on you as a defender right now. You don’t use your gun if it’s merely property. I don’t care if the lowest scumbag is stealing a suitcase with a million dollars of diamonds that’s yours. If there’s no threat against you, if there’s no weapon against you, if there’s no danger or threat of serious bodily injury or death being made against you, if it’s just someone stealing property, do NOT use your gun. Evan Nappen 15:55 The other mindset you want to be in is you don’t want to be the troublemaker, the one that started it. If you are the instigator and started it, then you’re not going to be able to claim self-defense either. Now, in neither of these cases was either of the defenders the instigators, but that’s another issue I see. Don’t be the one that instigates the problem. And the final point, and most important point of all, is that if you’re going to use deadly force, to be justified in using deadly force, one of the key elements in the use of deadly force, the key word that has to remain, number one, that word is FEAR. You had better be in fear of serious bodily injury or death and that fear better be reasonable. Because it’s going to take a jury of 12 people to decide that your fear was reasonable and that fear was of death or serious bodily injury against you or another. Evan Nappen 17:03 In the first case, I think that fear element is plainly there. It seems to be, and it seems like a jury, if they were to ever get it, are sure going to feel the fear of a mother and her baby with someone is an intruder Page – 4 – of 13 forcing their way in. Therefore, you know, at best armed with a screwdriver, whether threatening or not. And you know that one, there’s a lot of fear there. But in the second one, not only was it just about property, but the threat, any threat, of serious bodily injury or death to him, evaporated the moment they took off in their car. No less, following them? And even when he went out there, there’s no indication that they were threatening him. They’re just running away. And look if they’re running away, then you let them run away. The police will investigate, and if they can catch them, great. And if not, oh, well. But that’s how it rolls with property. You can’t do what this Afghan vet did, and I feel sorry for the guy. I mean, he served his country. He did all these things, but our law doesn’t allow for that. So, beware. Teddy Nappen 18:21 Yeah, kind of thinking along these lines. Because one of the biggest issues that people talk about, that’s one of the main reasons why, like one of the crackdowns in D.C. is about carjackings. Would there be a way to change the law to allow for justification? Evan Nappen 18:40 Okay, so there’s a difference. There’s a difference between a car theft and carjacking. Teddy Nappen 18:47 Yeah, car jacking. Evan Nappen 18:48 No, no. See, carjacking means they are physically putting violence on you or threatening you with violence in the taking of your car. The violence aspect of the carjacking is where you may find the justified use of deadly force. That’s where it may, depending on the violence threatened or used. But just theft doesn’t have that element, and therefore you’re merely defending property, and that’s where it falls short. Teddy Nappen 19:24 Well, that’s why I’m talking about maybe adding it. Would there be a way to either like Congress or even like the state legislator? Well, to the defense of property. Evan Nappen 19:34 Okay. Yes, they could say that you could use deadly force in defense of property, but a lot of people would find that morally wrong. Because no matter what the property is, life is life, Teddy. Life is precious, regardless of whether people are wrongdoers or doing criminal acts that aren’t violent. So, you’re saying that we’re going to value property over life, and it’s not how we roll morally. That’s why the laws reflect that. Life wins over property. It’s also a morality that we want to embrace, because it is irreplaceable with life. Once the person’s dead, they’re dead. And, you know, the property, you can build a new home, you can buy a new car, you can put your insurance claim in. You can, you know, do all kinds of things, and even if you take a loss, well, it’s just money. Teddy Nappen 20:33 I understand that, dad, but just kind of looking back, like, if someone who the whole light, like, kind of thinking of the West. It was a hanging offense for stealing a horse. Page – 5 – of 13 Evan Nappen 20:44 Well, okay. Teddy Nappen 20:45 Along that aligns of someone whose lifeblood, their job, everything comes from, like cars or property. Well, I think along those lines, like it’s one of those. Evan Nappen 20:52 Well, the horse analogy is good, but here’s the difference. Teddy Nappen 20:58 I know we’re not in the west. Evan Nappen 21:00 In the west, a man’s horse, and we’re not living, and that’s what we don’t want, you know. A horse could literally mean life and death. You’re out, you know, on your horse in the west. But even the other thing was, you know, horse theft was, there was no, there’s no car lock on a horse. There’s no theft deterrence on a horse. I mean, cars can still be stolen, I agree, but it’s real easy to jump on a horse and take off. So, whatever reason, the morality of the day said, look, if you do that, you’ll die. It worked as a good deterrent. There was still horse thieves that did it anyway, yeah. But, you know, horse thieving of the Old West, it’s not our morality today of property over life. And look, even if someone today steals your horse, you can still get a new horse. I mean, just like other animals are property. Property is property, and we have this distinguishing line now. And look, I can be, I’m just as angry and upset if someone is a victim of theft. I get it. A theft victim, it’s terrible. I don’t want to be a victim of theft. I know nobody else does, either. But using deadly force on it is a whole other ball game. Teddy Nappen 22:21 It’s one of those where just it feels. It’s just in that realm of, here’s a guy, a veteran, all those things, and then two criminals roll up to take his car. It’s been stolen multiple times. I understand life will always win over property, but it’s just one of those things. That’s the whole idea of that. It was deterrence. And that’s one of the things where there’s got to be something, some way to pivot that, to say, okay, stop. We’re gonna stop all these property thefts going up and down our country. Because then you give that rise to vigilantism. You give that rise to people who say I’m tired of this. Evan Nappen 23:02 Well, it can happen. I mean, look, it’s a tough one, and it is morally very challenging. Because, yeah, theft is a crime, and no one wants to be a crime victim, whether it’s theft or assault or any of the other things. But I guess the difference is violent crime versus non-violent crime. We draw a line between defense against violent crime versus non-violent crime, and that’s how we have to live. So, look, whether those things can change, whether it can be modifications done to create other deterrence, whether there’s use of force that may be appropriate. That’s not for today’s discussion, but I tell you what? Everyone who’s listening just learn from these cases, because you don’t want to be that guy Page – 6 – of 13 getting 54 years because you were stopping criminals that were attempting to commit felonies after you’ve been a victim of multiple thefts. It doesn’t justify it, and he’s paying the price. Evan Nappen 24:15 Hey, however, on a interesting other note of self-defense, Florida has restored the right to defend against bears. That’s right. It’s by one of my favorite writers at AmmoLand, Dean Weingarten. (https://www.ammoland.com/2025/08/florida-restored-right-to-defend-against-bears-first-6-months-4- incidents/) He points out that Florida, under their great Governor DeSantis on June 21 of 2024, signed HB87, restoring the right of people to protect themselves, their pets, and their homes against aggressive black bears. And from July to December 2024, Florida Wildlife Control recorded four instances where people killed bears but were not charged because of the new state law. There were seven situations where people were charged with illegal kills in 2021. So, in terms of being pro-defense, absolutely, when it comes to bears. I’ve been, you and I, Teddy are both bear hunters. I was charged in a blind by a bear, as you know, and that was quite a hairy experience. The deal is, yeah, bears, you know, normally black bears are will avoid you. They won’t attack you. But, man, you run into a mother or a sow with cubs, you better watch out, or an aggressive alpha, you better watch out. And so look, if you defend yourself against bears in Florida because they’re aggressive, they’ve actually passed a law restoring that right to defense against aggressive bears. So, good job Florida. Glad to see it. Florida again taking the lead on allowing people to be defenders instead of victims, even against bears. I mean, that’s pretty good, man. Gotta like it. Evan Nappen 26:34 Hey, if you want to be a defender and learn to do it right, you should check out WeShoot. WeShoot is an indoor range in Lakewood, New Jersey. It’s the range where Teddy and I both shoot and where we got our training, our certificates. We love WeShoot, and so will you. WeShoot has some cool stuff. As a matter of fact, today, Sunday, August, 24th, you know, our Gun Lawyer podcast drops every Sunday. Well today, Sunday, August 24 starting at 11 am until 4 pm at WeShoot, they’re having an Exotic and Luxury Car Show. They also will have their beautiful WeShoot girls, Julianna and Krystina, and they’re doing a meet and greet. You can get pictures with them, and you can see the amazing team of photographers do a photo shoot. You might be able to buy some of those cars, and there’s going to be food trucks, too. It sounds like a lot of fun. So, don’t miss it. August 24, today, from 11 to four. Go check out WeShoot when you’re there, check out the facilities. You’ll be very impressed. That is a great research resource right there in Lakewood, conveniently off the parkway. Great trainers, great people. Boy, I love the folks that we shoot, and so will you. They’re just the best. Evan Nappen 28:05 And let me tell you about some special sales that WeShoot, just to alert you, in case you’re a bargain hunter and are looking for some really good guns. They have the Ruger Mark IV 22/45 Lite. It’s a lightweight .22 long rifle with a sleek, anodized finish, perfect for precision blinking and training with the signature mark four takedown system. And let me tell you, folks, I’ve had every version of a Ruger 22. I’ve had Mark ones, Mark twos, Mark threes and Mark fours. Up until the Mark IV, as much as I love the Ruger .22, what a pain in the ass putting it back together. Oh, my God. Ask anybody that’s ever had to take apart and put together those Ruger pistols. As reliable and wonderful as they are, that was always the part that sucked. But I’ll tell you what’s great, the Mark IVs. Oh my god, night and day difference. Page – 7 – of 13 Push a button, boop, take down. It went from the toughest to the easiest. So, if you love the Ruger Mark series of the famous Ruger .22 semi-auto pistol, you need to get a Mark IV. It is the best. That’s all I use, man. When we go to the range, you want a great .22 shooter. That Mark IV is the perfect one. It’s so easy to clean, so easy to take down now, and it’s got that Ruger quality. And what’s cool about the 22/45 is it mimics the grip and hold and such of a 1911. So, if you’re a 1911 fan, you’ll love the 22/45. And Lite means it’s a little bit lighter weight. So, if you want to take your daughters or your kids or your spouse that may be smaller framed and not as strong, they’ll love shooting that pistol because it’s lightweight, accurate, fun and easy to clean. So, check out the Ruger Mark IV 22/45 Lite at WeShoot. Evan Nappen 30:25 They also have a Colt Delta Elite. That’s a legendary 10 millimeter powerhouse in a 1911 form, built to handle high performance loads with Colt’s timeless styling and steel frame strength. Yeah, you want a really strong, tough 10. I love the 10. Ten millimeter is a great round. Get that Delta Elite you got, if you’re a 1911 fan and you want to shoot 10 Colt Delta elites, the best, right there. Can’t beat it. And we shoot, got him. Plus they have a Springfield Saint Victor. That’s the go to AR with OD green furniture and serious reliability, whether for home defense or hitting drills at the range. And of course, it is New Jersey compliant, because WeShoot wouldn’t sell anything that wasn’t. So, if you want to look at some great guns, go there and try them out. They have the range that you want to make sure you take advantage of. And they’re relaunching, by the way, WeShoot Studio. They’re doing all kinds of cool stuff with WeShoot Studio, from protecting freedom, preserving tradition and living the All American lifestyle. They have a fantastic online web store. Go to weshootusa.com, weshootusa.com, and check out WeShoot. Pay them a visit and tell them Evan sent you. You’ll be glad you did. Evan Nappen 31:59 Let me also make sure I mention our good friends at the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. They are the stalwart defenders of our Second Amendment rights in New Jersey, the umbrella organization of a multitude of gun clubs, putting a strong force in the face of Murphy and the Democrats Second Amendment oppression that they never seem to get enough of. We’re battling through the Association. They have a full-time paid lobbyist. They have multiple federal court challenges and actions taking place, fighting for our rights in New Jersey. We have a tough fight, but we have got a great group. You need to be a member of anjrpc.org, the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistols Clubs. Please make sure you belong and be part of the solution. They will send you email updates. You’ll be alerted to all the shenanigans taking place in Trenton. You’ll be alerted to the court fights that are being undergone, and you’ll be given the ability to send out instant, very simple messages right to legislators to know that we’re watching them and to oppose or support certain bills. It is an incredible tool. Make sure you’re part of ANJRPC as we fight for our rights through the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs, anjrpc.org. Evan Nappen 33:28 Let me not forget to shamelessly promote my book, New Jersey Gun Law, the Bible of New Jersey gun laws. It’s the one and only book that explains it all, all question and answer in a format that’s easy to understand. You will be glad you have it. It will help you get through the matrix of traps that New Jersey lays for law-abiding citizens. Go to EvanNappen.com and order your copy today, right there at Page – 8 – of 13 EvanNappen.com yep, that’s my website. And when you get the copy of your book, scan the QR code on the front and for free, subscribe to my private database of subscribers. You’ll get email alerts from me, and you’ll be able to access the archive to get all updates, including the 2025 Comprehensive Update. All for free. I want your book to stay current. So, make sure you get your copy today at EvanNappen.com. Hey, Teddy. I’m looking forward to your Press Checks today. What do you have for us? Teddy Nappen 34:38 Oh, stop me if you’ve heard this one. Evan Nappen 34:41 Stop! Just kidding. Teddy Nappen 34:43 Anytime, well, fair enough. All right, yeah, the whole thing. But as we know, Press Checks are always free. So, every time the left and the gun rights oppressionists always push this stupid concept. “The Second Amendment only applies to muzzle loaders or firearms that were in the 1700s. It never was meant to apply for an assault firearm or machine guns. It was never even thought of that.” Evan Nappen 35:16 I mean, repeating firearms weren’t included. Teddy Nappen 35:19 I even remember, I think it was Brady, or whoever, that put out that stupid ad where it was someone committing a mass shooting with a musket. He was shooting, and he kills like three people, which, by the way, he still killed three people walking in by reloading. But you know, whatever. They always make that argument, and you know what I’m going to say looking back in history? Because, frankly, they don’t know history very clearly. There were examples of things beyond just simple muskets. But, you know, they don’t do their research because they actually don’t take the time to, you know, have one thought. Evan Nappen 36:00 What repeating firearms have you found that existed, say, at the time of the Founding Fathers? Were there any? Teddy Nappen 36:07 Well, let’s start with 1718 with James Evan Nappen 36:11 1718! Teddy Nappen 36:14 Yes, with the 18. Page – 9 – of 13 Evan Nappen 36:15 You’re talking almost 60 years before our Declaration of Independence. Teddy Nappen 36:23 Yes, you know, right before the Declaration of Independence, actually having the Puckle Gun. It was a pre-loaded cylinder which held 11 charges and could fire 63 shots in several minutes, nine shots per minute, and could be fired. And this is something that was actually used aboard British ships and would repel borders. And although it was never widely used, it was known at the time of the American Revolution, so already dispelling the left’s argument, like the Second Amendment was never applied for machine guns. Well, there hold my beer to James Puckle, because there was the Puckle Gun. Also there was the Ferguson rifle, a it was a Flintlock, but was breech loading. Ran at the standard muzzle loading rifle. It could fire up the several rounds per minute, two or three times faster than a muzzle loader, and it was light infantry. You can and could continue loading and firing without breaking cover, even when lying prone. And this was also used against the Americans by the British in 17 seven, kind of, right, those Brits in 1777. Oh, look on another one. Oh, this one you always love, the Giro Donny air rifle at the air Evan Nappen 37:47 Yeah, went on the Lewis and Clark expedition, an air gun right Teddy Nappen 37:54 Now. It came out in 1779. Oh, just right on the cusp. Well, Evan Nappen 37:58 the Austrians actually used air guns that were repeat fire. And Napoleon said anyone caught with an air gun got death because they hated those air guns because they didn’t make the same they didn’t make smoke the way black powder did, and they could be used very effectively. Teddy Nappen 38:21 It also had a detachable magazine with 19 rounds of ammunition, of Evan Nappen 38:28 course. So, hey, in New Jersey, air guns are firearms. Teddy Nappen 38:32 Yeah, so that’s an assault firearm with a high capacity magazine. Well, Evan Nappen 38:36 Well, no, it’s not an assault firearm, because of the case I did. Coalition v. Florio, where we got air guns removed from the assault firearm law, even though they wanted them included, but based on federal preemption, we were able to take them out of that, and that saved a lot of people over the years. That case, that I did, because they still would charge people even with air guns as being assault firearm. Who’s Page – 10 – of 13 Teddy Nappen 39:00 the Who’s your friend? The guy was a Navy aren’t who’s the one guy that does the RE, the reproductions of, like, Classic Firearms. I want them to market, well, air gun as a way for, as you know, for something you know, Teddy, you’re right. I what was, Evan Nappen 39:14 I’d be very funny, of course, Val Forget, who’s deceased, but his son still has Navy Arms and you would Val, you know, imported and brought in black powder guns. And these were one of the he’s one of the early pioneers of establishing the market in terms of black powder firearms. But I actually wondered the same thing, Teddy, how come they don’t reproduce with modern materials, the Austrian military air rifle. I mean, that thing was powerful. It was incredible. It was used militarily. It’s an awesome gun. I don’t know why nobody makes a modern material copy of the Austrian. Uh, air rifle. That would really be cool. And, you know, maybe someday somebody will or of the a copy of the gun used on the Lewis and Clark expedition that you’re talking about that too, would be cool. And think about it. It made sense, because they were going into the wilderness. We’re gonna find gunpowder in the wilderness, but he always had air so with an air gun, an air rifle that could take down game, deer, etc, they could still hunt. So it was a really smart, forward thinking move to have hunting air gun. And it’s also not a bad idea for folks you know that want to prep today, there still are, today, high power air guns that can take game, small game, particularly the brake barrel air guns and other air guns. So you know, air guns can be a very potent tool in one’s survival plans. Absolutely Teddy Nappen 41:03 and also just another reminder, because they always like the multi shot idea. Sure enough, the master, John dafta, had a revolver that had a snap, a snap on lock. It was made where it had a powder shelf drum almost looked like a striker, but smaller as a way, like a striker 12 shotgun, but was cylinder, but it used a flintlock level where it could hold the powder, massive cylinder that could hold and it was used. And sure enough, 1680 Yeah, so as revolvers. So you have revolvers, you have you have air guns that could had detachable magazines, machine guns. Evan Nappen 41:51 And what about our, what about our favorite gun that that our buddy Patrick carried? Oh, yeah, Sharps. Sharps. Yeah, Richard Sharp’s good friend from where Teddy Nappen 42:04 Mr. Knox, Knox, volley gun, the Evan Nappen 42:07 knock. Volley, gun, yeah, they made a big play in that. What a great series. The sharps Teddy Nappen 42:14 right under caught it right under. This is from the armors bench of 1770 the armors bench by the article detailed about Miss of Henry. Page – 11 – of 13 Evan Nappen 42:27 What we what was the year of the knock volley gun? When did 1979 so Wow, 1779 still during the American Revolution, and it fired? Was it seven? I think at least seven or eight. I forgot how many, but all it would fire all at once. And it was originally made with the idea of, if you were on ship, and you would be up on the mast, and when you were going to board, you could fire the volley gun onto the deck of the other ship, putting a spray of bullets down on the on the enemy. And yet, of course, it was quite a heavy gun. But in the series, Patrick is a big, tough, strong Irishman that you know, carries that gun like it’s a carbon fiber AR15, you know, not a problem, yeah, Teddy Nappen 43:22 yeah. And it’s seven shots going in at once, which, by the way, for people that they’re always saying he could reload and had more shots, imagine spraying the entire group of people like it’s anytime they try to make the argument point to history that is the only way Evan Nappen 43:40 to win. Henry knock was quite a prominent British gun maker. And you know, I showed you, I have a Henry knock pistol made by Henry knock his stuff was really cool, but that volley gun was really an interesting piece. Teddy Nappen 43:56 But if anyone wants to, they can check out the armors bench. They did a great article talking about the knock volley gun. And then from the Arizona independent, where they is by Jonathan Dumas, where he talked about these various examples, trying to dispel this whole argument that the left always makes. And here I have a test for you, Dad. Do you have this book British military firearms from 1650 to 1850 by Blackmore printed 1961. Evan Nappen 44:28 I believe I do. As a matter of fact, you probably grabbed it out of my library, didn’t you? Put it back! Teddy Nappen 44:34 No, no, that’s the one they cited to, but I was curious if you actually. Evan Nappen 44:40 Well, Teddy, I appreciate the interesting historic facts about repeating arms and again, dispelling the lie of the propaganda media that never ceases to lie. And why don’t we go? Repress our rights, also Teddy Nappen 45:02 Also, from the Military Review, Matthew Elmers, who did another great article detailing the historical revolvers, like the early revolvers. Evan Nappen 45:10 Well, this is going to be, it’s of more and more importance under the Bruen decision by, you know, Saint Thomas there, where we have to show the historical text and tradition, and when it comes to repeating firearms, there’s a good history of it. So, this should even be helpful in the coming federal challenges. Page – 12 – of 13 But now let’s go to the segment that everybody loves, and that is the GOFU. That’s the Gun Owner Fuck Up. And why do we talk about GOFUs? Because these are expensive lessons that other gun owners have experienced. So, you get to learn for free. And I just want to hammer home on a primary GOFU that I see a lot, and it has to do with people waiving their rights. Oh, my God. Anytime I get a call from somebody and they didn’t stand on their rights, they consented to a warrantless search. Why??? They were, even after being Mirandized, they talk to the police and don’t ask for a lawyer. Folks, this is so basic and so simple. If you’re ever read Miranda, shut the fuck up and say, I want my lawyer. I want to talk to my lawyer. Miranda is the end of the line. If you’ve been read Miranda, you’re done. Just shut up. Evan Nappen 46:52 Now, you shouldn’t be talking anyway. You have no obligation to speak or to answer questions. Your fallback always has to be, I want my lawyer. Let’s talk to my lawyer. I’ll do whatever my lawyer says. Talk to my lawyer. Always put your lawyer between you and the Government. Anytime the Government wants to get in your life, put your lawyer between you and them. Because as your lawyer, I can’t convict you, put evidence against you, or be used and twisted against you. But anything that comes out of your lips, it can be used in that way. And I can then find out, talk with the officers, and then I can talk with you, and that’s what smart people do. So, don’t be the GOFU where you gave up your rights. Please think of all the men and women who sacrificed for those rights. We’re blessed to have them. Don’t give them away. Ask for your lawyer. Remain silent. Don’t consent to any searches without specific advice from your lawyer that you’re going to be asking for. Evan Nappen 48:18 This is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens. Speaker 2 48:29 Gun Lawyer is a Counter Think Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state. Page – 13 – of 13 Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S3 E252_Transcript About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets. Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News. As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists. He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America. Email Evan Your Comments and Questions  [email protected] Join Evan’s InnerCircleHere’s your chance to join an elite group of the Savviest gun and knife owners in America.  Membership is totally FREE and Strictly CONFIDENTIAL.  Just enter your email to start receiving insider news, tips, and other valuable membership benefits.   Email (required) *First Name *Select list(s) to subscribe toInnerCircle Membership Yes, I would like to receive emails from Gun Lawyer Podcast. (You can unsubscribe anytime)Constant Contact Use. Please leave this field blank.var ajaxurl = "https://gun.lawyer/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php";

  Episode 251-Bullet Ban=Gun Safety Danger Also Available OnSearchable Podcast Transcript Gun Lawyer — Episode 251 Transcript SUMMARY KEYWORDS Hollow point bullet, gun safety, New Jersey law, self-defense, high penetration, gun inheritance, prohibited person, gun buyback, friendly fire, gun rights, suppressors, carry permit, private property, gun laws, public safety. SPEAKERS Speaker 2, Evan Nappen, Teddy Nappen Evan Nappen 00:15 I’m Evan Nappen. Teddy Nappen 00:17 And I’m Teddy Nappen. Evan Nappen 00:18 And welcome to Gun Lawyer. Teddy, New Jersey’s hollow point bullet law has to go. It has to go because it is a gun safety danger. You know how the gun rights oppressionists always talk about, oh, it’s gun safety. It’s a favorite. Teddy Nappen 00:46 Oh, yeah. They always tote that one. All the time. Evan Nappen 00:50 Well, the hollow point bullet, we’ll call it ban, although there are certain exemptions, but it basically operates as a ban. It needs to be repealed because it is in fact promoting a gun safety, public safety danger. The idiots that passed this law don’t understand what a hollow nose bullet is and what it does. So, a hollow nose bullet is merely a bullet with a hollow nose, a hole in the front. And what happens is, when the bullet hits its target, it will expand. By expanding, the energy of the bullet fully transfers to the target that it hits. Now, what it means is hollow nose bullets have less penetration, substantially less penetration, and deliver more or fuller energy transfer to the target. So, the idea, if you have to use your gun in self defense, is to end the threat. Stop the threat. That’s what you want to do. And so the hollow nose is very effective at putting the energy into the target and ending the threat. It is the preferred ammunition for self-defense purposes, but New Jersey prohibits it, except with narrow exceptions. And those exceptions include buying it at the store, bringing it to your home and using it for hunting, if legal. But you cannot legally carry hollow nose ammunition in your carry gun. Even though you have a permit to carry your handgun, you can’t have hollow nose bullets in it. Page – 1 – of 10 Evan Nappen 02:31 Now we’ve talked about certain alternatives that are polymer filled or that kind of thing that the State Police have recognized. (https://www.nj.gov/njsp/firearms/firearms-faqs.shtml – Question 20.) But the bottom line is New Jersey law bans hollow nose. Even if you use these State Police acceptable rounds, we, meaning you and me as representing you, particularly when you’re charged with hollow nose, we have to go through the whole routine of explaining why that bullet is not a hollow nose, why it’s separate, why it’s not under the definition, why legally, it’s distinguishable. And that is not only a pain in the ass, but it can lead you to be charged with possession of a hollow nose, be put in the Gun Owner Gulag over possession of a hollow nose. You’ll spend a week in jail innocent because of hollow nose. Then finally, hopefully, we get you out of the Gulag so we can actually fight the case and have the prosecutor toss it. I mean, it’s really bad. So, the best thing to do in New Jersey is not to carry hollow nose because the law prohibits it and restricts it. Even if you’re going to rely on the State Police exemptions, you know, talking about polymer filled, you know, Critical Duty, all that. Sure, it’s out there, and it’s legal. I get it, but you’re still running a risk. Because the folks that enforce the laws are so freaking stupid, and they don’t know the gun laws. They don’t know the exceptions. So, they just arrest now and ask questions later. Your best bet. Teddy Nappen 04:03 Especially if you have a key ring with a hollow nose bullet. Evan Nappen 04:07 Yeah, we’ve seen that all right. We actually had that case, yeah, a dummy round. But if you carry full metal jacket or high penetration ammunition, then that’s no problem. Because your full metal jacket, your high penetration rounds, such as super hard cast bullets, are not hollow nose. And you know, Underwood Ammo makes some great stuff, super hard cast. (https://underwoodammo.com/) I don’t know if you have ever checked it out? We call them cherry bombs. They are coated, super hard cast coated solids. And man, they penetrate. They’ll break bone, and they go through. They’re good for stopping large game as well as anything else. But the problem is, when you’re out in the street now, you’re mandated to penetrating ammo. So, you don’t want your bull to go through the bad guy, the person who is the actual threat of death or serious bodily injury that you’re justified in using deadly force upon. You don’t want the bull to go through the target and hit innocent bystanders, but New Jersey mandates, by way of the hollow point bullet ban, that we in fact carry high penetration ammunition in the streets. Well, if they’re serious, which, of course, we know they’re not, but if they’re serious about “gun safety”, then they would repeal the hollow point bullet law so that all these carriers of handguns are not using high penetration ammunition in the streets. This is ridiculous, and it needs to end on behalf of greater public safety. If they really care about that and that’s what they always hawk their gun rights oppression laws, well, here is a law that needs to go for the genuine reason of gun safety. Teddy Nappen 06:24 I’m kind of curious, just kind of to play out the hypothetical. So, let’s say, God forbid, someone’s in a self-defense shooting and ends the threat. Shoots the bad guy. However, because New Jersey mandates that you have the most highly penetrative round you can carry and if you fire and it goes into a civilian, and now both the purp is dead, and the civilian is dead. What happens then? Page – 2 – of 10 Evan Nappen 06:49 Well, we’re going to have what is so euphemistically called a friendly fire incident, and the friendly fire will have been mandated by New Jersey gun laws. The reason you had the ammunition that you had is because New Jersey wouldn’t let you have the safer rounds. You have to do that, and there’s no way to know when you fire, whether it will penetrate through the target or not. There’s no way to know for sure whether it will make it through, whether it’ll go through the clothing, whether it hits bone, whether the body of the target contains the round. But plainly, with hollow nose, it is far, far more likely that only the target will receive the projectile. As opposed to high penetration ammo, where the risk is increased and a public danger is created by the state of New Jersey, with their idiocy and lack of understanding of actual ballistics and just their emotional basis for passing laws instead of doing what’s actually right. New Jersey is one of the very few places that even bans hollow nose. They’re used successfully by law enforcement and defenders for good reason. They’re less penetrative and they’re way better, too in terms of defending in a home and other places. It’s time for this law to go. It’s time for it to be repealed, and it needs to be repealed in the name of genuine gun safety. Imagine that! Actually doing something for gun safety. Teddy Nappen 08:38 I kind of look at it as it almost seems like they’re doing it on purpose. Because they want people because, if you because that’s why they were so hard to fight against carry. Because now, if you are ever in a self-defense situation, they’re going to come at you with everything they’ve got. I feel like they want more victims of people where there’s, you know, friendly fire, so they can tack on and make an argument. See, see. He was carrying a gun. He shouldn’t have done that. Now, because of that an extra person is now dead, even though the perp was the one who was a problem. Evan Nappen 09:04 I put nothing past the evil mindset of the gun rights oppressors. I mean, you know, whether they are just ignorant, or whether they’re intentionally hoping to do a blood dance over it. All I know is that it’s a stupid law, that’s for sure, and it needs to go. It is counter to any claims that they have of caring about public safety and gun safety. It just calls them out on their lies, you know. Unless they get behind taking action on what I’m talking about, and I doubt they will. They’re just full of crap, and it’s just to push an agenda in the motte and bailey style of propaganda, and that’s really all they’re about. They’re not really looking for gun safety. It’s just a farce. Evan Nappen 10:07 So, you know, I have a letter here, an ask Evan, from David. David asked regarding inheritance. Hi, Evan, as per Episode 182 on gun inheritance. I have multiple guns and multiple children. Can I leave my guns “to my children” and let them sort out who gets what? Or do I need to specify in my will which child gets which guns, and are there any provisions around ammunition inheritance? So, the good news about New Jersey and Federal law is that firearms pass to heirs with no paperwork, no license, no registration, nothing. As long as the person who’s receiving them is not a prohibited person, it can pass to them, and that’s how it works. Now, when you are actually doing your will, you can leave your guns to “my children”, and then the children can sort out and decide who gets what. That’s fine. As long as they’re either beneficiaries of the estate, where you have an executor, and you’ll have multiple beneficiaries, and they have to sort out any other property. Or if you just leave guns to your children, Page – 3 – of 10 they will decide who gets what guns, who wants them, just as if they decide any other property in state. I mean, if it becomes a problem, then the courts could even sort it out. But normally it’s just property. It’s property. It’s property that can be distributed like any other property. And if there are multiple beneficiaries, normally they try to work things out in a friendly way and decide who gets what and that would include the guns. Evan Nappen 11:53 There’s no inheritance provisions around ammunition, but then there’s no prohibition on that inheritance of ammunition, either. Whereas firearms have all the multiple licensing requirements and other things that might be there. Ammunition, in terms of private inheritance, it’s not part of the statute. It’s not something that is otherwise prohibited. But, of course, no heir, who is a prohibited person, can inherit something that’s illegal. So, if an heir is a prohibited person, even though there’s no paper, no license, no registration, they still can’t take possession. It needs to go then to one of the heirs who is not prohibited, or there are provisions where it has to go to the police if the heirs are prohibited from possession. That’s how that works, and I have it addressed in my book. Evan Nappen 12:45 If you get my book, New Jersey Gun Law, the Bible of New Jersey gun law, you will see I have an entire chapter dedicated to inheriting firearms. It’ll help you plan your estate when dealing with firearms. There’s so much information in that book. It covers everything you need to know so you don’t become a victim of New Jersey gun laws. Go to EvanNappen.com, and you’ll be able to get your copy today. Make sure when you do that you download and scan the QR code, right on the front of the book, so you can get the 2025 Comprehensive Update. I’ve updated many of the chapters with the newest laws and things you need to know. So, jump on that. You’ll find that great chapter in my book on inheriting firearms. If you want to get the book, go to EvanNappen.com and order yours today. Evan Nappen 13:35 I also want to mention our good friends at WeShoot because WeShoot is doing something pretty cool. They usually have exciting things, and this is no exception. So, this week at WeShoot, they are offering a special sale, special offerings as well. They have a Canik METE MC9LS, which is slim, sleek and built for control. This extended-slide beauty brings lightning-fast sight tracking and Canik’s signature crisp trigger. They have an LWRC IC-DI. That’s a direct impingement done by LWRC, and it’s a premium build, impeccable balance, and battle-ready reliability in every pull. They also have the Canik SFX Rival-S with wood grips. It’s the competition king, and it just got even classier with rich wood panels, blending speed and old-school style. And they have Mollie Friedman and the AK platform. Molly shows why the AKs rugged design, legendary liability and raw power have earned it a permanent spot in shooters’ hearts. That’s right. So, check out the WeShoot website at weshootusa.com. You’ll see the great photos. You’ll see the great guns. And most importantly, you will see Molly with her AKs. And I bet you want to see that. I know you do. So, go to weshootusa.com, and treat your eyes to a beautiful website with beautiful pictures of the best stuff that we all love. That’s WeShoot. It’s an indoor range in Lakewood. That’s place where Teddy and I shoot, and where we got our training. You can do the same. They offer great training to get your carry permit certifications. You can enjoy that magnificent resource right there in Lakewood, New Jersey. Central Jersey. A great range, great place, and great people. We love WeShoot. Check them out at weshootusa.com. Page – 4 – of 10 Evan Nappen 16:06 Let me also tell you about the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. They are the premier gun rights group in New Jersey. They have joined in the lawsuit to take out New Jersey’s ban on silencers and suppressors. You know, the same thing, just different words from different times. But we want to get rid of that law. President Trump is helping along with the federal issues where we have, of course, the big, beautiful bill that removed the NFA tax on silencers and suppressors. Silencers and suppressors are super useful hearing protection tools. They’re also great for a home defense gun so you don’t blow your ears out. They’re great while hunting, too. So, you don’t blow your ears out, and you can listen for game. You can also listen for other hunters even. Great stuff. They should never be banned. Again, it is in fact, mandating public danger by having stupid gun laws that have “safety” as what they create. Safety. It is safer to shoot with a suppressed weapon than not. Yet, the law requires more danger. It is an absurdity. If they were really serious, they being the Second Amendment oppressionists, they would promote genuine gun safety. But of course, they don’t. It’s up to us to promote it. So, we are waiting here with really high expectations, and I’m glad to see the state Association in the fight to allow suppressors to be legal, as they are in just an overwhelming majority of states already. Evan Nappen 17:48 And that’s not all the Association is doing. They’re challenging the Carry Killer bill, the sensitive places. They’re also going, after the assault firearm law , magazine ban. All that stuff. They’re constantly on a vigilant watch over the shenanigans in Trenton. They stopped the package so far, but we suspect that after the next election, they’re going to be back with those horrible, horrible rights-crushing bills. Trying to make the Gun Owner Gulag chock full of law-abiding gun owners that are held in jail. Not being found guilty of anything. Just today, I had another big fight. Every day I’m fighting in the Gulag to get our people out. It’s disgusting to think that we live in a place that does this, and they want to make it even worse. These are all the things the Association is fighting. You need to get behind your state Association. Go to anjrpc.org, ANJRPC.org, and join today. So, Teddy, tell me what you have for us in Press Checks. Teddy Nappen 19:01 Well, as you know, Press Checks are always free, and this kind of was making the rounds of story. This comes from NRA-ILA, and it was written up. “Chicago Woman Shot with Stolen Buyback Gun Files Suit”. (https://www.nraila.org/articles/20250811/chicago-woman-shot-with-stolen-buyback-gun-files-suit) I know, right? Evan Nappen 19:20 Wait a minute, wait a minute. What’s a stolen buyback? You mean the Government bought the gun “back”, which is a gun they didn’t actually own in the first place, but they bought it back. Then that gun that was bought back got stolen from the Government and used in a crime? Teddy Nappen 19:39 Yeah, apparently. Page – 5 – of 10 Evan Nappen 19:40 What? How did that happen? Teddy Nappen 19:42 I’m shocked. Evan Nappen 19:43 How did that happen? Teddy Nappen 19:44 In of Chicago, of all places. Evan Nappen 19:46 Oh, come on. Not such an honest town like Chicago. Teddy Nappen 19:51 I know. Evan Nappen 19:51 Where the police there are true professionals. Teddy, how did this occur? Tell me. Teddy Nappen 19:58 Well, it’s quite simple. Chicago’s long running gun turn-in program says all guns are to be destroyed and never returned to the streets, as on their website. Apparently, this woman named Twanda Willingham didn’t get the memo, as she is filing suit after she was shot by Glock 21 that was relinquished to the Chicago Police at a gun turn-in event in December 2023. Then that same gun was used that shot her, and has also been used in two other shootings and was later discovered on a 16 year old. Evan Nappen 20:39 So, when they track the gun from the moment that their buyback acquired it, where did the chain go with the police acquisition of the firearm? What happened? Teddy Nappen 20:52 According to the article, it was transferred to the tactical team office following the turn-in event. Later, the Glock disappeared in a room full of police officers. Evan Nappen 21:02 Oh, the disappearing Glock. That’s one of their defects. They like to just disappear. They do magic tricks. They pull rabbits out of Sigs. All kinds of crazy things. But the disappearing Glock, yeah, that’s a known thing. So, this Glock did its disappearing act and what happened? Teddy Nappen 21:18 Then the tag that was tagging the Glocks identified as a turn-in was found in the trash. Page – 6 – of 10 Evan Nappen 21:26 Oh, that’s another part of the magic trick of gun buyback Glocks. When the police have control, the tags can just like, you know, a deck of cards. It’s kind of like a card trick the Glock does, right? So, the tag can detach. It’s like the linking rings, the old linking rings. But this is now with gun tags. It was in the trash. Fascinating. Teddy Nappen 21:47 And to further add to this Columbo episode, the officer that was listed on the inventory records was later shot and killed by a fellow tactical team. Evan Nappen 21:58 Of course, he was. Of course, he was. How convenient. So, the trail ends of how that gun ever got out of a gun buyback and ended up back on the street, wrecking havoc and actually filtering it to criminals instead of stopping criminals. Teddy Nappen 22:18 Yeah. And I love how they labeled it friendly-fire accident during police pursuit. Like, all you can think of is that scene where, after Serpico was shot in the face, like, just, oh, friendly fire. Evan Nappen 22:30 Well, even the term gun “buyback” has always bothered me, because they’re not buying back something that wasn’t theirs. Except for one time that I’m actually aware of a person I know went to police gun auctions in another state and purchased all types of air guns and other things from the police. And then the following month, they sold them back to the police for a huge profit, huge profit, thousands of dollars in profit. So, he is the only person I knew that truly made it a buyback, because they literally bought back guns that were theirs. But normally, they’re just taking guns from law-abiding citizens, and often they’re just doing wonderful upgrades to citizens’ guns. So, you turn your junk guns and buy quality guns, like semi-autos and other things that are just well worth it. Right, Teddy? Teddy Nappen 23:26 Yeah, and it got me thinking, like, who sparked this idea? The idea of a gun “buyback”? And doing some research, I pulled this up from the Inquirer, by Ryan Briggs, (https://www.inquirer.com/news/gun- buybacks-philadelphia-shooting-crime-20220814.html) Philadelphia is often credited with launching the first gun buyback program. This goes back to 1968 where it was a city council police commissioner turned Mayor, Frank Rizzo, organized. Evan Nappen 23:57 Frank Rizzo. Yeah, we’ve heard of Frank Rizzo. Teddy Nappen 23:59 Yeah, yeah. You mean rats. Oh, but continue. Rizzo organized a gun turn in event. By the way, the event didn’t even give you money. You just turned them in. They wouldn’t even. It was he noted the program was not aimed at nabbing criminals, but attracting good citizens interested in doing their civic Page – 7 – of 10 duties of getting guns out of circulation. And for a more ironic note, as you could tell, he, of course, being a Democrat and someone pushing for this idea of a gun buyback, he himself owned guns that went for auction. From the Philly mag, from city life written by Dan McQuaid, apparently, Rizzo owned a Sterling Arms .25 cal. Evan Nappen 24:47 Oh, my God, a sterling. Wow. He was real high end guy, huh? Teddy Nappen 24:52 Yeah. And an American Firearms .38 caliber pistol and a baby hammerless .22 short caliber revolver. Evan Nappen 25:01 Didn’t he, like, steal them out of the gun buyback? Or did he actually spend money for those guns? Teddy Nappen 25:07 Well, you know, you know. You don’t want to. When you’re, I guess, he didn’t really have good knowledge on firearms. And he thought, well, you know, this will do the trick. Whatever, you know. He just found them in the trash, like. Evan Nappen 25:22 Oh, man, yeah. So, the hypocrisy never ends. But gun buybacks are just another absurdity that they think and have all the good intentions, and then the reality ends up never what they put forward, right? Teddy Nappen 25:41 Well, funny enough. So, it was Baltimore later in 1974 who made it, kind of, put it on the nation as they were the ones running one of the largest buybacks out of all of them. It was like 13,000 firearms netted, and that sparked it. So, like, oh, we’ve got to do that, too. And now, currently, this is out of The Journalist’s Resource by Clark Merrefeld. (https://journalistsresource.org/health/gun-buybacks-what- the-research-says/) The left do realize these gun buybacks don’t do anything at all. They even said, handguns recovered in buyback programs are not the type most commonly linked to firearm homicides. Evan Nappen 26:17 Oh, crap. They’re catching on. Teddy Nappen 26:19 Yeah, I know right? Evan Nappen 26:20 Ending the gun owner upgrade program, too bad. Teddy Nappen 26:27 Although buyback programs may increase awareness of firearm violence, limited resource for firearm injury prevention may be better spent in other ways, instead of paying them and buying the guns. They even went on a full analysis, breaking down the numbers. It goes into by like 2014, they’re even citing Page – 8 – of 10 to the fact that they have wasted the amount of time and money and realizing that it is does not actually. Evan Nappen 27:02 And New Jersey is a large offender. They will run these buybacks in a county. I once had a case where they claimed that my client did not surrender all his guns. He was hit with a domestic violence order, of which he was not guilty, but it didn’t matter. Because there’s the order to turn in his guns, and they were missing 13 guns that they claimed he had. But they didn’t understand New Jersey’s own permit system. Every time you buy a handgun on a permit, there’s no de- registration. You could sell it the next day to another dealer, and it doesn’t get de-registered. So, we were able to trace every one of those guns to a sale to a dealer that was legal and lawful, except for one. Because one of the guns he turned in to the buyback program in the county that they were holding them. And when I brought out that, why don’t you check your records of guns that were turned in? You’ll find that his gun went to you. OH, we don’t have those records. They don’t have records of the guns that are turned in. So, they end up getting guns that they themselves end the paper trail on, apparently, which is just hilarious. They make it essentially, turn in your guns, no questions asked, and no paper trail. So, I’ll tell you what, folks. It must be the world’s greatest way to get rid of a crime gun when they run those kind of gun buybacks, where you can turn it in and have the state take it. No more needing to throw it in the river, or any of that stuff that the criminals do with their guns. You can just go to a gun buyback in New Jersey, and the prosecutor’s officer is happy to take care of disposing of the evidence for you, with no questions asked. Isn’t that cute? Teddy Nappen 28:52 It just comes down to this. The only reason they still run these programs is they want to, you know, boiling the frog. Keeping the idea of, oh, a gun buyback, a gun buyback. The article even mentions the goal, “mandatory gun buyback” like in Australia. That is what they want to create. They want people to think, oh, but the only time we’ve already seen it successful is when it’s mandatory. Huh? I wonder what that means? Evan Nappen 29:18 Which, by the way, the Australian program failed because there’s still a million other guns in circulation there. It did nothing. There’s still. It was a waste. And by the way, they still have tons of crime and violent crime. So. Evan Nappen 29:18 That is just called confiscation, and they don’t give you anywhere near the what the guns are worth. It’s basically disarmament of a people. So, if you want to have confiscation disarmament, that is plainly what the Second Amendment was all about stopping. Evan Nappen 29:18 Well, I want to get to one of our most popular segments, Teddy, which is the GOFU. That’s the Gun Owner Fuck Up. And this week’s GOFU is extremely interesting. It demonstrates something that I’m sure many of you are unaware of as a problem. As part of the traps laid by Murphy and company, and the gun rights oppressionists in passing the laws that make it very difficult for people to follow, this Page – 9 – of 10 GOFU is very important. The whole purpose of GOFUs is so that you can learn for free what has been expensive lessons for others. And what I’m talking about here is one particular “sensitive place” when it comes to carrying your lawfully permitted gun. When you’re carrying a handgun in New Jersey, properly in the holster with a concealed carry permit, and you’re all 100% legal, you know that there are all these “sensitive places” that you can’t go. Well, one of the “sensitive places” is private property. The original law said private property, including but not limited to residential, commercial, industrial, agricultural, institutional or undeveloped property, unless the owner has provided express consent or has posted a sign that it is permissible to carry on the premises. Evan Nappen 31:23 So, this was trying to create that you could not walk on any private property unless there was a sign that affirmatively said, you know, we love guns. You know, guns are welcome. Carry here. So, the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs, the group that I talk about on every show and tell you to join, they brought a legal action. This is one of their great things. And in the case in federal court, Judge (Renee Marie) Bumb ruled on that provision. She found that when it comes to private property, if it’s open to the public, then you can carry without a problem. But if it’s not open to the public, then you have to have the consent. It’s split. So, let’s say you want to go to 711 and that’s private property. It’s owned by a company that owns 711, right? But it’s open to the public, so you can carry there. You don’t need a sign that gives you permission. But if you want to go in, let’s say, your friend’s house that he owns, then he has to give you permission to carry there. Even if he’s your buddy and owns guns themselves. He has to say, yes, yeah, I give you permission to come in. Evan Nappen 32:36 Well, here’s the GOFU, folks. Only an owner can give permission. That’s right, only an owner. So, the problem is, if you go to a friend that has an apartment that he’s renting, that person is not the owner, necessarily, of the building. Now, if they happen to own the building, then this would be okay. But normally the renter doesn’t own the building. If your friend is merely renting an apartment and calling it his home, you cannot go in that apartment with your gun, even if the friend gives you permission. You need permission from the landlord, or the owner, not the renter. Otherwise, it doesn’t fly. And if you’re going into an apartment building where you’re stepping on private property that’s not open to the public and they have to buzz you in, again, you better have permission of the owner, not the renter. So, this is a GOFU. It’s a trap. It’s a trap when dealing with persons who live in apartments. They don’t have a problem with giving permission for folks to have their guns there, but it doesn’t matter, because their permission doesn’t cut it under the law, It doesn’t address the required exemption of it being an owner. Evan Nappen 34:18 This is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens. Speaker 2 34:29 Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state. Page – 10 – of 10 Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S3 E251_Transcript About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets. Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News. As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists. He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America. Email Evan Your Comments and Questions  [email protected] Join Evan’s InnerCircleHere’s your chance to join an elite group of the Savviest gun and knife owners in America.  Membership is totally FREE and Strictly CONFIDENTIAL.  Just enter your email to start receiving insider news, tips, and other valuable membership benefits.   Email (required) *First Name *Select list(s) to subscribe toInnerCircle Membership Yes, I would like to receive emails from Gun Lawyer Podcast. (You can unsubscribe anytime)Constant Contact Use. Please leave this field blank.var ajaxurl = "https://gun.lawyer/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php";

  Episode 250-How To Get Rid Of Your Pets  Also Available OnSearchable Podcast Transcript Gun Lawyer — Episode 250 Transcript Gun Lawyer — Episode 250 Transcript SUMMARY KEYWORDS Gun lawyer, Aalborg Zoo, animal donations, euthanasia, predators, tax deduction, logical fallacies, Mott and Bailey, Nirvana fallacy, gun safety, New Jersey gun laws, Colt Python, craftsmanship, modern firearms, gun rights. SPEAKERS Teddy Nappen, Speaker 2, Evan Nappen Evan Nappen 00:15 I’m Evan Nappen. Teddy Nappen 00:17 And I’m Teddy Nappen. Evan Nappen 00:19 and welcome to Gun Lawyer. So, Teddy, I found a great way to get rid of pets. Teddy Nappen 00:27 Ah. Evan Nappen 00:27 I just read about this. Teddy Nappen 00:28 Are we giving them to PETA so they can pass them on. Evan Nappen 00:31 No, no. PETA does not like this at all, what I’m going to tell you. Teddy Nappen 00:34 What? Evan Nappen 00:34 This is from international news, but I figure the listeners would greatly enjoy this, Teddy. (https://apnews.com/article/denmark-zoo-pet-donations-food-predators- 6e124050c269331600ec93b266de31ff) I think you will, too. Because what I found, and this is going directly to the website where anybody can go to, is the Aalborg Zoo in Denmark. (https://aalborgzoo.dk/en/zoo-parade/donation-of-animals-for-feed/) Page – 1 – of 13 Evan Nappen 00:58 And right on their webpage that they have, “Want to donate an animal for food?” “At Aalborg Zoo, it is our responsibility to ensure animals a healthy, natural and species-relevant diet. Therefore, we gratefully accept animal donations from both private individuals and businesses for euthanisation and slaughter at Aalborg Zoo.” They show a nice tiger right there eating a beautiful piece of meat of a pet, I am assuming, because. Teddy Nappen 01:36 One might say they weren’t lying about the tiger. Evan Nappen 01:39 They weren’t. As a matter of fact, they say, “Predators need whole prey – including fur, bones and organs – as it contributes to enrichment, nutrition and wellbeing. By allowing necessary kills to become part of the food chain, we avoid waste and instead create a meaningful farewell where the animal can benefit both garden predators and nature.” So, a meaningful farewell for your pet by letting a lion or tiger or some other predator consume it. Teddy Nappen 02:22 Here, I’ve got, I got an idea. Evan Nappen 02:23 Wait a minute. Listen to what the zoo accepts, man. Teddy Nappen 02:26 Fine. Fine. Evan Nappen 02:27 We accept. Teddy Nappen 02:28 All right. Evan Nappen 02:28 We accept, yeah . . . Here fluffy. Teddy Nappen 02:33 Here we go. Evan Nappen 02:34 You’re not gonna wake me up early in the morning anymore, begging for food. Teddy Nappen 02:41 It’s no longer that you are taking them to a farm. You’re taking them to a zoo. Page – 2 – of 13 Evan Nappen 02:46 Screw the glue factory. You’re going to the zoo. You’re going to the zoo. We accept. Okay, this is the zoo, now. Not me. Not me and Teddy. The zoo accepts both horses, horses now, and smaller prey animals, such as guinea pigs, rabbits and chickens. You know, giddy up and get your guinea pigs. Line them up. I guess maybe they’ll take gerbils and hamsters, too. I wonder if they’ll take squirrels. Man, I wish that they took squirrels. They wouldn’t be pets, but hell, take all the squirrels you want. They’re like, limb rats or tree rats. They call them. If you have an inquiry about other animals, you’re welcome to contact us. So, listen, folks. Teddy Nappen 03:33 Oh my God. Evan Nappen 03:34 Whatever animals you have, the Aalborg Zoo has open arms for feeding them to their predators, but please note they do not receive other predators, such as dogs and other cats. So, our dogs and cats are apparently safe from the Aalborg Zoo, but any other animal, including your horse, is acceptable. Wait, folks, don’t just donate your pet and walk away, because, get a load of this, ready? They have a waiting list for horse donations, a waiting list. And before you consider donating, guess what? They need the horse to be a maximum of 147 centimeters. The horse must be in a sound animal welfare condition for transport and not have been treated for illness. They only want fresh, healthy horses to send to the slaughter. The horse must have a horse passport. I don’t know what that’s about. Is that something TSA is now doing? Global Entry, pre-check and horse passport. I don’t know. Teddy Nappen 04:49 I’ve got a, I’ve got a way better ad for them. Evan Nappen 04:51 The horse will be delivered alive to the Aalborg Zoo, where it will be euthanised by trained staff and then slaughtered. The Aalborg Zoo receives the horse as a donation. And get a load of this, folks. As the owner of the horse, you can obtain a tax deduction for the value of your horse. It gives a whole new meaning to horse feed. Unbelievable. All you need to do is provide your social security number or your CVR number when handing in the horse. And the value of a horse is currently, I guess this is Denmark money, DKK, five per kg. So, they’re paying you per kg here. They’re paying you by weight for your horse. If you do not wish to provide a social security number for tax deductions, they’re still happy to take your horse without you doing that. And by the way, if you want to donate small prey, they also welcome small pets, such as chickens, rabbits and guinea pigs. Do you have that cute little guinea pig? You can call them and maybe they’ll take your gerbil or your hamster. I don’t know. Maybe even pet mice. I don’t know. Whatever you got, man. Teddy Nappen 06:08 I see now why they have a waiting list. Page – 3 – of 13 Evan Nappen 06:11 They note when can you drop them off. Yeah, between 10am and one without an appointment. Just show up. Say, here’s my pet for food. However, a maximum of four individuals at a time. If you wish to donate several animals at once, you know, in like a food bonanza for their tiger, please contact us to make an appointment. Now bring the animal alive in a box that can follow the animal and don’t have to bring back. So, you know, when you bring the box, they get to keep that cardboard box, okay? And they do not offer payment for those donations. But if you provide your social security number, you can get that tax deduction of DKK 100 per animal donated. So, folks, if you’ve been wondering what to do with your horse, maybe you have a really annoying horse like Mr. Ed, who won’t shut up. This is a solution. Or any other small prey. Isn’t it amazing the things that people think of? What a way to get rid of your pets. Donate ’em to the zoo so they can be eaten by a tiger. Teddy Nappen 07:26 Now, I know what they can do, which is horses. They’re not just good, they’re great! Right? Evan Nappen 07:34 Exactly, exactly. I mean, talk about the ultimate pet food commercial or something like that. Very interesting, very interesting. Teddy Nappen 07:45 I can see why they would have a waiting list for horses. Because you can imagine, you know, all the, you know, the McMansions that have the horse farms to get the tax status. So, now, if you have a horse you want to get rid of, they’re willing to pay you and you can write it off. Evan Nappen 08:02 Maybe can make your racehorse run faster by warning them. Listen, pal, if you don’t win this, you’re going to the zoo to be tiger food. So, if I were you, I would perform. You know, kind of give them a mob approach. You know, an incentive like that might work. I don’t know. Teddy Nappen 08:21 The horse might say nay, though, Evan Nappen 08:25 Teddy, that was bad. Teddy Nappen 08:26 Yeah. Evan Nappen 08:27 But you’re right. They might, they might. Let’s hoof out of this topic and let me tell you about something else. Now this is interesting in terms of our views on gun law propaganda. So, New Jersey does what I’m going to tell you all the time, and what I found when you argue with propagandists, when you want to argue with the gun rights oppressionists, if you can identify the logical fallacy that they are using, it can be very helpful to win the argument. And one of the logical fallacies that I want to talk about, that Page – 4 – of 13 you’ll see the anti-gun rights folks use, is called the “motte-and bailey fallacy”. The motte-and-bailey fallacy is very interesting, and this is actually directly from Wiki. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motte-and- bailey_fallacy) You can read about it and get into more depth, but here’s what wiki says about the motte-and-bailey fallacy. It’s named after the motte-and-bailey castle, and it’s a form of argument. Evan Nappen 09:38 It’s an informal fallacy where the arguer conflates two positions that share similarities: one modest and easy to defend, that’s the “motte” part and one which is much more controversial and harder to defend, which is the “bailey”. The arguer advances a controversial position, but when challenged, insists that the more modest position is being advanced. Upon retreating to the motte, the arguer may claim that the bailey has not been refuted, because the critic refused to attack the motte, or that the critic is unreasonable, by equating an attack on the bailey with an attack on the motte. Evan Nappen 10:30 So, we see this in New Jersey, folks. They talk about gun safety, where they call their most extreme, insane gun laws that turn law-abiding citizens into criminals, where they create the gun Gulag, where they make possession of a slingshot a felony, where they limit magazine capacity and make it felonies. Everything’s a damn felony, and what do they say? They put it under “gun safety”. So, the motte is “gun safety” and the bailey is whatever extreme gun law they’re trying to push, as long as they put it under the guise of the motte. They propagandize the motte while actually enacting and enforcing the bailey. So, use motte and bailey in your arsenal. Even when you’re just arguing, you know, with somebody at Thanksgiving dinner, and they’re using that fallacy of a tactic. Once you call them out and identify the tactic, and you say, oh, you’re using the motte-and-bailey tactic. Boom! You’ve cut them off at the knees. Evan Nappen 11:50 All of these logical fallacies are very, very helpful in arguing with others about our Second Amendment rights. And, of course, at some point when you’re destroying them, then they’ll attack you as a person. That’s known as the ad hominem, attack the man. Attack the person, not the argument. And, you know that you’ve got them on the run when they are calling you an a hole for your position. Then call them out on that. Say, oh, don’t use an ad hominem attack on me. You’re attacking me, not the argument, and that shows that you’re losing. So, as soon as you can ID in the argument what they’re doing in their logical fallacy, it gives you the edge on winning. These are good, proven techniques. Evan Nappen 12:47 Hey, WeShoot, our good friends, at the wonderful range in Lakewood, New Jersey, where both Teddy and I shoot, where we get our training, our certifications. We love WeShoot. Well, WeShoot is having an OA Defense & Laugo Arms Range Day. And that’s at WeShoot on Thursday, August 14, from 3 pm to 7 pm. Thursday, August 14, 3pm to 7pm. They will have Dave Wollman, the founder of OA Defense and his team, in alliance with Laugo Arms, providing free shooting of all their platforms, including the newly released Alien Remus. You ever see those Alien guns? They are cool. It’s their carry version of the Alien gun. Boy, I want to check that out. That’s the carry version of the Alien gun. So, WeShoot has a special event. Feel free to check out WeShoot this event. Their magnificent website at weshootusa.com. See the WeShoot girls there holding up beautiful guns. Great stuff to look at. And you Page – 5 – of 13 will also be thrilled to see that right there in Central Jersey is this fantastic resource of WeShoot with their state-of-the-art range and a fantastic pro shop. They’re always running different sales and specials and great events. Check out weshootusa.com. Evan Nappen 14:34 And don’t forget our friends at the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. They are the gun rights defender of New Jersey, the premier defender. They’re there on the front lines, fighting in the courts, fighting the legislature. They have a full-time paid lobbyist in Trenton, and man, are we going to need them more than ever. Because they’re trying to pass that package that the Association was able to get delayed, at least through the recess. Where they’re going to put the Gun Owner Gulag on steroids. They’re going to make any accidental discharge a felony and then throw you in the Gulag. I mean, it’s just horrible. You need to belong to the Association. We’ve got to fight these gun rights oppressionists, and that is our source to do it. Go to anjrpc.org and make sure you join. Make sure you remember. They’ll send you emails about what’s going on, keep you alert as to the shenanigans going on in Trenton. They’ll have easy ways of contacting legislators with a push of a button to let your opinion be known. Join anjrpc.org today and be part of the solution. Teddy Nappen 15:47 Just before I begin Press Checks, as we know, Press Checks are always free. One logical fallacy that the left absolutely loves, and this is one that was pointed out to me. It’s the Nirvana fallacy. Evan Nappen 15:47 And, of course, now is when I shamelessly promote my book, New Jersey Gun Law. It is the Bible of New Jersey gun law, and man, it has saved so many people from so many problems. New Jersey is insane. Their laws don’t make any sense. They’re focused on an agenda to disfranchise us of our Second Amendment rights, to make sure we stay victims instead of defenders, to steal our guns at every chance, to turn us into felons so we even lose our right to vote. It’s all part of a package of living in that God forsaken territory we call New Jersey, or the DPRNJ, the Democratic Republic of New Jersey. So, if you want to stay on the good side of the law, you’ve got to know the gun laws. It’s super important. My book is designed just for that. It’s over 120 topics, all question and answer, consuming 500 pages of vital information. It is the book everybody swears by, hopefully not at. If you’re swearing at it, you’re probably swearing at the damn laws that I’m talking about, and I don’t blame you for that. Go to EvanNappen.com, EvanNappen.com and order your copy today. Make sure you scan the QR code on the front and join my private subscriber base. You’ll immediately be able to access the 2025 Comprehensive Update, which includes a standalone chapter on “sensitive places”. So, Teddy, what do you have for us this week? Evan Nappen 17:04 What’s the Nirvana fallacy? Teddy Nappen 17:36 It’s the idea of, oh, in the just epitomizing the idealized, unrealistic way of saying. And basically they always say, Well, if there were no guns in the United States, there’d be no gun deaths. They always and you joke, but I’ve heard leftists make that argument. And they always say like, well, if we banned Page – 6 – of 13 assault firearms, we’d have no mass shootings. It’s just, it’s the end. Funny enough when, if you ever you see the new ad where they’re trying to now push for banning nationally on high capacity magazines. If we got a ban on high capacity magazines, less people would have died in the last mass shooting. They always appeal to this Nirvana unrealistic idea that it would stop a mass shooter. It’s utter stupidity. But that is one logical fallacy they love. Evan Nappen 18:39 Though, if gun laws were $100 bills, New Jerseyans would be millionaires, but they’re not. It’s ridiculous, yeah. How do they? They just run from emotion and from logical fallacies and propaganda, and it’s all about an agenda of gun rights oppression. That’s why we have to be eternally vigilant, and you’ve got to stand up for your rights. If someone makes an anti-gun statement, don’t hesitate to step right in and straighten them out. I’ve done that many, many times, Teddy. I’ve been at a store and someone makes some stupid anti-gun comment. Even though they’re not even talking to me, I butt right in and straighten them out on their logical fallacies, their wrong information, their failure to see the truth. We got to talk. We got to speak up and not be afraid. We’ve got to tell them the truth about why our gun rights are critical to our lives. Guns save lives. Okay? That’s a fact, and that’s what you’ve got to ram it home. Anytime you hear somebody spouting anti-rights propaganda, it’s critical. That’s the whole reason for our show, too. It’s to get the word out to constantly be helping our fellow gun owners, making that message out there, and not letting them get away with their B.S. So, that’s a good point about that Nirvana, but that isn’t what you actually were going to tell us about. What are you going to tell us about? Teddy Nappen 20:37 Well, I feel like we could probably talk about guns on the podcast. Evan Nappen 20:42 We love talking about guns. Evan Nappen 20:44 It’s our favorite topic. Teddy Nappen 20:44 I know. Teddy Nappen 20:45 It’s a nice palate cleanser, and even, having to keep, you know. Every now and then looking at The Trace to actually talk about firearms. And this is something that kind of came up, and I was wondering about it, where you kind of look, where there has been this sort of push away from the craftsmanship of firearms. Now you see a lot more modernization of you know how. Evan Nappen 21:10 Modern guns work, but they just don’t have that, many of them, do not have that just amazing craftsmanship, where you just marvel at the workmanship of it. You know, like the old classic firearms did. It’s true, yeah. That’s why the classics are so beloved and sought after. Page – 7 – of 13 Teddy Nappen 21:34 It’s also kind of, there’s a definite benefit to the modern but also the craftsmanship of the design. It’s basically trying to compare to a Luger versus a Glock, where you see the beautiful craftsmanship. But which one do you want if you’re in the trenches? Evan Nappen 21:52 Well, I get it. But, you know, I just picked up a beautiful Luger. It was a bring back, and it actually has etched in it the soldier’s name and his service number. It’s just so full of history, and they’re just so beautifully made and machined. They’re like works of art. They’re amazing, amazing, in their craftsmanship. Yeah, they’re the just. That alone is a pleasure, and they’re fun to shoot because of the history that you’re holding in your hand and seeing just how wonderfully after all those years, they still perform. Teddy Nappen 22:34 Hey, it worked out for Uncle Morty. Evan Nappen 22:37 Oh yeah, my our uncle. My uncle. Teddy Nappen 22:41 Great uncle for me, Evan Nappen 22:42 And great uncle for you. Yeah, he actually used his P38 that he brought back from the war, that I now have. He used it when he was a law enforcement officer. He used it in the line of duty, and it saved his life. And because, prior to him leaving for the war, he carried a .32 snub nose, a little .32 and he ended up, right before he was leaving to go to war, they were chasing down a guy on a rooftop, and he emptied his gun into the guy. And it didn’t stop him. He reloaded and emptied it again. It still didn’t stop him. He ended up grabbing the guy by the pants while he’s climbing up a ladder to get to a higher roof. The guy unbuckled his pants, and my uncle’s smacking him in the head with a blackjack. Blood’s flying. It still didn’t stop him. He got away. And he didn’t find out till he got back from the war that they finally caught the guy. He had 10 rounds in him and a big old bruised head. But it didn’t matter because he was hopped up on something. Uncle Morty said, I gotta have something more powerful. So, he carried his P38 with nine millimeter. And, you know. And look, even in those days, ballistics weren’t as understood and as followed and as much of a cultural phenomenon, you know, where we can talk all day about ballistics. But it definitely had more power than his little .32 snub, that’s for sure. Teddy Nappen 24:22 I was honestly kind of shocked he didn’t try to carry like, you know, a 1911 just for the stopping power alone. Page – 8 – of 13 Evan Nappen 24:28 Well, you know, I get that with the 1911. But the thing was, at the time, the P38 was kind of cool, because it was the double action automatic pistol. Whereas, you know the Colt is a single action. So, you cock and lock it. Whereas with the P38, the first pull is a double action pull, then it goes to single. And if you ever notice the P38 was the great grand dad of the Beretta 92 with that wide open on the frame nine millimeter, etc, and double action auto. So, you know, it founded a generation of nines in and of itself. But, hey, we could debate .45 and nine millimeter all day long, yeah. But one thing for sure, it’s definitely more powerful than a .32 Smith & Wesson revolver cartridge. Teddy Nappen 25:30 Yeah. So, trying to get back to what I was talking about, modernization versus craftsmanship. I found an article that I actually thought very much demonstrated that sort of argument. It was basically the Colt Python 357, the original versus the modern comparison. It was by a guy, Bob Campbell, and his article is on USCCA, a very interesting article. (https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/blog/classic-vs-modern- comparing-colts-original-and-new-357-pythons/) Teddy Nappen 26:00 He said, you know what, the new ones coming out, I want to see which one’s better. And he actually took out, well, it just gave him an excuse to take out his original 1911. Yeah. Pythons poor, yeah, I know, yeah. So, he talks about how Colt Python was in big news, where they’re introducing the new Colt Cobra .357, introducing the Colt Python with the modern machining. So, it’s not using the old tactics of how they, you know, hand carved it. Evan Nappen 26:36 Yeah. A lot of hand work on the original Pythons. A lot of work done by hand. Teddy Nappen 26:40 Yeah, work on them, yeah. So. Evan Nappen 26:42 Well, Teddy, you know, I own a few of them. You’ve seen how smooth and slick and beautiful the old Pythons are. Teddy Nappen 26:48 I can see why Rick Grimes carried it in The Walking Dead. Evan Nappen 26:52 Yeah, yeah. Teddy Nappen 26:54 One of the things he did talk about. So, just price alone. He says his stainless steel Python would go for more than $4,000, which I don’t know if he’s right. Page – 9 – of 13 Evan Nappen 27:06 That’s about right. Teddy Nappen 27:06 And the new one is only going for about, oh, $1500 or the classic for $2000. Evan Nappen 27:15 There is a big price difference between the original and the modern versions, absolutely. Teddy Nappen 27:22 Yeah. So, he talks about his original Python, introduced in 1955. It was a deluxe revolver for competition hunting service. It used unique barrel ribbing and heavy under lug or for our design to provide the perfect balance that is neither handled nor muzzle heavy. It is built in a 41 frame with a Smith & Wesson K frame, or a larger Smith & Wesson N frame. The balance. Evan Nappen 27:52 Yeah, that would be, Smith’s competitor would have been the Model 27 essentially of the Python. I have shot both, all original, you know, and they’re both great guns, super accurate. A pleasure to shoot, just classics, absolute classics. Teddy Nappen 28:16 Yeah. And then the Colt was powered by a V spring versus Smith & Wesson used a leaf spring was both the hammer and the trigger returning, while the Smith only would have the separate trigger return spring. The Colt V spring was also easier to cock. And if factory single. Evan Nappen 28:35 You can fire, the Colt double action very quickly. If it’s tuned right, you can really blast it fast and accurate. Teddy Nappen 28:45 I will say I love his start of the article. He’s like, first of all, the original Python is easily the most accurate revolver I have ever fired. He just starts that off. Evan Nappen 28:56 It’s definitely up there. It’s definitely up there. It is definitely up there. Teddy Nappen 29:01 So, he did say, the action stacks or becomes harder at the end of the double action arc. This is accurate, but the same very good shooting may be done with Python. Others may feel the Smith & Wesson is a little more rugged. And you kind of. Evan Nappen 29:18 Well, I think they’ve tested the guns, and to a certain degree that’s true in 337 world. Actually one of the toughest of all the 337 revolvers was the Ruger. The Ruger, originally the Security 6, GP 100, those are Page – 10 – of 13 tanks. They’ve gone many, many rounds beyond Smith and Colt before they loosen up. But, you know, I like any gun. I love all the major manufacturers and their firearms. I’m not saying any one is any better than the other. But, you know, the Ruger is definitely strong, and it’s a very, very good revolver. But it just doesn’t have the same pizzazz as when you’re shooting a classic Smith or a classic Colt. It just doesn’t have it. I mean, I love them. They’re all great, but it’s just something special about the old guns there. Absolutely. Teddy Nappen 30:16 Now, he does point out the modern one that he got, the test gun he got, was a six inch, while the one he had for his original is a four inch. But the six inch was only available, so we’ll leave that extra. Evan Nappen 30:27 A little longer sight radius for him. Teddy Nappen 30:33 Yeah. So, he described the new Python as the creation of modern production in the best sense of the word. He uses CNC productions to make it tight. Tolerance the chamber, barrel thread leads are very consistent. The barrel differs from the original in several regards. The front sight is removable, and the barrel crown is counter sunk. Evan Nappen 31:03 That can help protect accuracy, because most of your accuracy is going to come at the very end of the muzzle. That’s why you want to be always very careful not to damage your muzzles. And crowning helps protect the muzzle from damage, because that can directly affect accuracy. Teddy Nappen 31:23 Yeah. And he also says the frame top strap is thicker, think he said, think Ruger GP 100 tough. Evan Nappen 31:33 Exactly. That went after Smith, which had forged frames. Ruger had the investment cast, and they were battling it out. I think, you know, Ruger would start, wouldn’t you really have a really thick cheeseburger than a thin one? But, you know, with their frame versus the other? But in reality, you know, the forging is very strong. So, it doesn’t have to be the same thickness as the investment cast frame. So that’s really what was going on. But there’s no question that the Rugers are built like a tank. They are. They’re strong as hell. But hey, you know, they’ll all shoot. They’ll all shoot well, and as long as you have a gun, whichever one you prefer is purely your preference, without a doubt, and there’s no right or wrong. It’s all fun. And of course, why should you only have one? Buy all three, man. It’s great. Teddy Nappen 32:26 Yeah. So, he took them both out to fire, and he ends with, sometimes newer is better. The new Python can stand on its own merits but comparison to its predecessor is inevitable. I’ve used the Colt Python for years and often carry the model. Overall, the new Python is a better handgun. It was far more accurate. Page – 11 – of 13 Evan Nappen 32:46 Well, I guess better is, you know, that’s somebody’s opinion. I get it. Teddy Nappen 32:51 I know, but yeah. In terms of accuracy. Evan Nappen 32:56 I’ll take the older one. Thank you. I don’t care. If you’ve got to get have a choice, just smooth. You just feel the quality, man. You just feel it. And I’m not saying the new ones are bad. As he said, they’re really, actually pretty good, right? But just some about the older guns. Teddy Nappen 33:14 He did say the decider of it all was there was a cutout in the rear face offering increased safety in the unlikely event of a blown cartridge case. The action is far smoother than the original 1977 Python. It also had a nine pound trigger compression that seems too light for the hammers. Primers consistently, however, it does break the primer, including necessary hard Magnum primers. So. Evan Nappen 33:41 Well, I’m glad it got a good review from him. But, you know, we have amazing modern firearms today. You know, they’re just amazing. And the use of polymers, use of so called Space Age materials. Use of, you know, computer precision machining. And yes, when it comes to production, some amazing modern guns can be made, but the old days, with the hand craftsmanship that was a large part of the manufacturing was just amazing. Hey, look today. You know, if you go to a gun store and you look for the cheapest guns they have, you might find the old top brake revolvers, right? The top breakers, sometimes even called suicide specials. But the funny thing is, you don’t see many top break revolvers today, and you want to know why, because they’re more expensive to make. That’s right. The guns that we view as cheaper are actually more expensive to make with the hand fitting and the timing and everything that goes into the operation of those top brakes is quite significant. So, you know, there’s a kind of interesting dynamic going on there. So, Teddy, I appreciate you talking to us about old versus new. And since I’m an old guy, old is always better, of course. Teddy Nappen 35:21 And look, I mean, if you’re gonna get the original Python, get the original Python just for the collector value. Evan Nappen 35:28 Oh, yeah. Definitely something to be said there. Hey, let me tell you about one of our favorite segments of the show, and that’s the GOFU. The GOFU is the Gun Owner Fuck Up. These are actual mistakes made by gun owners, actual cases, that ended up causing the gun owners endless amounts of grief, in terms of fighting criminal charges, fighting to save their gun rights, all kinds of things that you just rather not deal with. So, you can learn from others mistakes. It’s important. This week’s GOFU is inadvertently displaying your handgun in its holster. So, you know, when we are carrying, we normally have our shirt or jacket over our gun. And, of course, New Jersey law requires us to keep our gun concealed. You can’t open carry in New Jersey. Page – 12 – of 13 Evan Nappen 36:27 Yet, New Jersey law itself under N.J.S. 2C:58-4, subsection a., right off the bat, talks about if there is a brief, inadvertent showing of a concealed gun in a holster. If that brief, inadvertent showing occurs, it is deemed to be a de minimis infraction. And when something is de minimis in law, it means it is not going to be prosecuted. So, the law recognizes that even in our movement of our body or our clothing, that on a rare occasion, right something may flash as to the holster or the gun, and doing that is not a violation of open carry in New Jersey. But that doesn’t mean you want to rely on that. Because what happens is, if an individual happens to see, and I get lots of these cases, if individuals have their guns just briefly seen by non-gun people who freak out when they see a gun, they call the police. They make up lies that you threatened them with a gun because they saw it. All kinds of problems can ensue. Evan Nappen 37:50 So, when you carry concealed in New Jersey, make sure you are discreet. Do your utmost to never let your gun or holster be seen. Look, I understand sometimes these things happen. You’re lifting your arm up to grab something off a top shelf, and the gun flashes the holster, and maybe the gun on your belt flashes or you’re bending down to pick something up or standing. Be cognizant of that, and try to never have your gun show, because that can be a GOFU. Evan Nappen 38:31 Hey, this is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens. Speaker 2 38:46 Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state. Page – 13 – of 13 Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S3 E250_Transcript About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets. Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News. As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists. He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America. Email Evan Your Comments and Questions  [email protected] Join Evan’s InnerCircleHere’s your chance to join an elite group of the Savviest gun and knife owners in America.  Membership is totally FREE and Strictly CONFIDENTIAL.  Just enter your email to start receiving insider news, tips, and other valuable membership benefits.   Email (required) *First Name *Select list(s) to subscribe toInnerCircle Membership Yes, I would like to receive emails from Gun Lawyer Podcast. (You can unsubscribe anytime)Constant Contact Use. Please leave this field blank.var ajaxurl = "https://gun.lawyer/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php";

  Episode 249-Anti 2A Reversing Course?  Also Available OnSearchable Podcast Transcript Gun Lawyer — Episode 249 Transcript SUMMARY KEYWORDS Gun laws, Second Amendment, felons’ rights, rights restoration, anti-gun movement, racial disparity, knife rights, Delaware switchblade ban, illegal alien police officer, Maine gun laws, UK knife laws, self- defense, compliance letter, gun ownership, New Jersey gun law. SPEAKERS Evan Nappen, Teddy Nappen, Speaker 2 Evan Nappen 00:15 I’m Evan Nappen. Teddy Nappen 00:17 And I’m Teddy Nappen. Evan Nappen 00:19 And welcome to Gun Lawyer. Hey, Teddy, did you catch The Trace? Now, you know The Trace is, of course, the mouthpiece for the anti-Second Amendment. Let’s just call them suppressionists. The rights suppression movement. Teddy Nappen 00:40 We can just call them what they are, which is a bunch of closeted hoplosexuals. Evan Nappen 00:44 Well, they are. And the thing is, The Trace is, of course, where we do opposition research. You’ve always got to see what’s going on with them. But I have to admit, they actually surprised me with one of their latest articles. This is from The Trace, and it says allowing people with felony convictions to seek to have their rights restored may, in fact, help with the enforcement of gun laws. (https://www.thetrace.org/2025/07/gun-rights-felony-laws-trump-doj-bruen/) In other words, they are now putting out that, essentially, President Trump’s efforts to restore the Relief From Disabilities, which has been unavailable for 33 years now for good people to get their rights back, you know, that they are now taking a position, apparently, at least putting it out there, the idea that this might actually help enforce and protect gun laws. Now, how can that be? How can they now be quasi in favor of rights restoration? It’s an interesting article, although it does contain a coverup in the article, and I want to get into that coverup. Page – 1 – of 15Teddy Nappen 02:16 If I were to guess, without even reading the article, just to go off a guess. This is them trying to, from I believe it was the previous article where they were fully aware of the racist history of gun laws. So, now they’re trying to cover themselves. Evan Nappen 02:33 Au contraire. They do not admit to gun laws being racist. They haven’t so far. Teddy Nappen 02:38 Oh, sorry. Evan Nappen 02:38 They haven’t gone that far, because that would be a legitimate basis for them to maybe even have an epiphany. Teddy Nappen 02:44 That would require common sense. Evan Nappen 02:46 There is virtually a six to one conviction race ratio of blacks to whites, Teddy. But they didn’t do that. Teddy Nappen 02:53 Of course not. Evan Nappen 02:53 That would be too much. No, no. Yeah. What they’re saying is that, you know, they’re in fear of the impact of the trifecta of the Supreme Court cases – Heller, McDonald and Bruen. And as these challenges to the gun laws are more and more successful, they’re in fear that going after the prohibition of felons having guns, where you have an absolute prohibitor, of which the ability to get your rights restored under federal law had been precluded for these 33 years, thanks to Charles Schumer in 1992 who defunded the program, even though the law has still been on the books, but no one can take advantage of it. They realize that, hey, that’s actually making them potentially vulnerable to having the law completely overturned. So, they’re now taking a, you know, somewhat here, putting out the position that this could actually be beneficial to saving a gun prohibition. Evan Nappen 04:07 But the gun prohibition they’re looking to save is that of felons not having guns. And what’s interesting about that is there are some folks in even the pro-Second Amendment rights community that don’t want felons to have guns because they are not aware of, in effect, the incredible broad stroke of when you just stop all felons from having guns. There are many felons that are non-violent felons, that were one- time offenders, that have proven themselves to be good people, law-abiding citizens that aren’t violent, that are no way a danger, and they’re still precluded from their rights. And there is that horrible disparity between whites and blacks that needs to be addressed. And remember, with that kind of prohibition going on with gun possession, it’s not just the ability for individuals to have guns, but it’s for those Page – 2 – of 15people being denied this right to also work in professions where firearm possession is required, like police work or military, etc. So, you not only get precluded from being able to defend yourself, from being able to exercise your Second Amendment right for your pure enjoyment or to go hunting, but also to get better jobs. And so that would be great, but they don’t talk about that. Evan Nappen 05:38 Instead, they talk about how this may, in fact, have the ability to protect it. But of course, they don’t want the relief from disabilities mechanism to be too broad. They don’t want it to be, you know, too many people getting their rights back. God forbid. They want to make it as small as possible putting forward these concerns. And they also don’t like that. They don’t think that enough money is being charged for individuals to get their rights back, and that, of course, again, raises a disproportionate for those that are less financially able to get their rights back, which often includes more minorities than not. And again, they’re all for that, you see. No, no. We’ve got to make it, keep it expensive. Keep it expensive. But the thing that really makes me laugh is the coverup in this where they discuss, how this ever, how did this, you know, take place. How did this happen? This funding limitation of Schumer. So, do they mention that? Teddy Nappen 06:59 I have an idea. Oh, it’s because they’re getting so offended that people are being called “felons” that they want to shift over to “incarcerated persons”. They don’t want to offend anybody. Evan Nappen 07:13 No, no. It is very much in their playbook. But this is actually, here’s what they say. And let’s take a little deeper dive into what they’re saying. They say in the article, how does this proposal get around the funding limitations? Because remember, it was (Senator Charles) Schumer who banned it, and they don’t mention Schumer and the Democrats being the culprit of stopping rights restoration. They don’t happen to mention that little fact, but we’re going to mention it. Then they ask, well, how does this work? And they say, well, Congress just stopped ATF from spending money on this. Oh, is that all? Congress just said one day, hey, let’s just stop funding relief from disabilities. No, it took Democrats headed by Schumer to stop this. But, you know, the Republicans failed to keep the funding. I will say that. But it isn’t like Congress just stopped it. But no, no. That’s how they want to portray it. Congress just stopped it, and it didn’t stop any other part of the Justice Department. Evan Nappen 08:21 What they’re saying here is that now Trump, you know, is now allowing the funding by having it done through a different part of the Department of Justice, which is true. But let’s really look at why the funding stopped. And what makes me laugh about it is the reason the funding stopped. It was a specific effort by the anti 2A oppressionists to do this. So, let’s not forget history. Let’s take a little stroll back as to why rights restoration that they now see as a potential to even preserve certain gun control laws that they like. How did the funding end? It ended, essentially, with great efforts expended by the suppressionists, and you can see this for yourself. There’s a book by Josh Sugarmann. And look at that. It came out in 1992. Oh, right when Schumer ended the funding. And what is the book? You can go and look it up on the online books page. It’s called, “Putting Guns Back Into Criminals’ Hands: 100 Case Studies of Felons Granted Relief From Disability Under Federal Firearms Laws”. Oh, Josh Page – 3 – of 15Sugarmann. You know who Josh Sugarmann is? He’s the head of the Violence Policy Center. The VPC is the original gun rights suppression organization. Evan Nappen 10:02 The VPC essentially has been largely, you know, surpassed in its influence now by things like, you know, Bloomturd and The Trace and Giffords and all that. However, you can go right online to the so- called archive series of the Violence Policy Center, and you can download their piece of propaganda called, “Guns For Felons: How the NRA Works to Rearm Criminals”. “Enforcement” – The NRA Way. Guns for felons: brought to you by the NRA. And it’s the VPC. And what do they do? This study was written by Kristen Rand, Josh Sugarmann, and Caroline Leedy, and their introduction says it all. The NRA claims that it supports vigorous enforcement of our nation’s gun laws and efforts to keep guns out of the hands of criminals. Yet the NRA has actually worked to put guns back into criminals’ hands. Oh my, what is The Trace talking about? Are they now working or on the side of putting guns back in criminals’ hands? Like they stopped for 33 years with the gun rights suppression movement? No, it’s just that Congress stopped it. Congress just stopped it. No. Congress didn’t just stop it. It was the anti- rights lobby that stopped it, and it has been a terrible injustice against minorities. It has been a terrible injustice against American citizens in regaining their rights, and now they suddenly see it as a way to salvage gun control laws. And I’ll tell you what, it goes even deeper. Yeah, well, Teddy, it goes even deeper than that. Teddy Nappen 12:11 I will say, just kind of thinking on this. You and I kind of read. We catch and read articles from The Trace. I would love to meet one of these people from The Trace. Just to have a conversation and actually ask them like, guys, do realize what you’re pushing for? The hypocrisy is staggering. Evan Nappen 12:35 They don’t care. They don’t care. Teddy, they banned logic in 1968, man. They don’t care. Teddy Nappen 12:41 I know. Evan Nappen 12:42 But I hear you. Maybe we can make them explode, like the computer on Star Trek with just the logic going on here. Teddy Nappen 12:50 Well, I know, but it’s a. Evan Nappen 12:51 Yeah, yeah. Well, it doesn’t just end there. You can actually go to the U.S. Department of Justice right now, the Office of Justice Programs, where they have a virtual library, the NCJRS Virtual Library, which houses over 235,000 criminal justice resources. And right there is the article, “Guns for Felons: How the NRA Works to Rearm Criminals”. (https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/putting-guns- back-criminals-hands-100-case-studies-felons-granted) So, our own Justice department keeps alive the Page – 4 – of 15very propaganda piece that this now discusses. So, it’s there. The history is there. It isn’t just that “Congress stopped it”. It was done by their efforts. So, when we all fight for our rights, this is what we’re fighting. We’re fighting for our Second Amendment rights and the oppressionists are there to try to stop it. To propagandize, to say, you know, NRA is rearming criminals and blow it out of proportion. And now, when reality has sunk in, after 33 years, and when President Trump and the DOJ is finally taking action to put this program back that has been on the books as law. The law wasn’t ever repealed, just the funding. So that nobody’s application could be processed. That’s where you see the truth emerging, and them trying to run for cover. Trying to erase history, but we can’t let it be forgotten that the problem is them. Teddy Nappen 14:49 Now, I want Josh Sugarmann to put out a new book, “100 cases that Donald Trump has helped restore someone rights”. Evan Nappen 14:59 Hopefully, it’ll be hundreds of thousands that get their rights back. It’s long overdue, long overdue. And, you know, to just wipe out a Constitutional right like that. Imagine if we said felons have no right to free speech or felons have no right to the religion of their choice. Well, these are all our Constitutional rights. Yet, somehow for felons, that’s fine. You know, that’s what we do. And this whole expansion on felons is a disgusting abuse, and it’s abused. It’s abused to just become another tool of gun rights suppression. Evan Nappen 15:44 Hey, I do have some good news that I want to quickly mention, and that is on knife rights. Because remember, it’s not just the right to keep and bear arms, Teddy. I mean the right to keep and bear guns. It’s the right to keep and bear arms. And you and I both are fans of knives. We love our edged weapons as well, and I think we’re going to talk more about that. You were telling me something very interesting about that, and we should talk about later. But what I want to mention here. Did you know that Delaware now has repealed their ban on switchblade knives? That’s right. Delaware has joined the knife liberty movement, thanks to Knife Rights. (KnifeRights.org) This movement, which I was an essential part of, helped make it happen, in effect, helping to start it with knife rights in 2010 in New Hampshire. Now we have yet another state, which is Delaware, that has repealed their knife laws. Evan Nappen 16:55 Since we started in New Hampshire, Knife Rights has gotten 21 states to repeal their bans on switchblades and knives. The knife liberty movement is alive and well, and now we have yet another state, Delaware, who has enacted knife reform. So, that is really great. And you know, Knife Rights is just a great group. Since 2010, there’s been 57 bills and court decisions with Knife Rights working hard on all these. Repealing knife bans and protecting knife owners in 36 states and over 200 cities. Of course, New Jersey is going to be one of the last ones to fall, but I’m confident that it will, in fact, fall. We’re working on it, and we’re also working on repealing the FSA, the Federal Switchblade Act. We’re working on getting full knife liberty as well as firearms, and that’s important. That all our rights and all these things get protected, of course. So, that is good, good news. Page – 5 – of 15Evan Nappen 18:16 But you know, Teddy, there’s something really that’s just back to the felons in possession that I just want to mention. I wanted to mention to you. I don’t know if you heard about what happened in Maine. You know, Maine is off the wall when it comes to their protection of illegals, their protection of men in women’s sports and all this kind of crazy stuff. And you’d think, Maine, you know, of all the places. Well, this ain’t Maine, like why Maine? Well, Maine, unfortunately, has political issues with the looney left exerting itself. Well, Maine actually made, in this town in Maine, they made an illegal alien, a Jamaican illegal alien, was allowed to become a police officer. (https://notthebee.com/article/ice-arrests-illegal- alien-who-was-working-a-police-officer-in-maine) Evan Nappen 19:14 Now, think about that. Here we have someone who’s illegally here, breaking American immigration law, being made a law enforcement officer to enforce the laws on citizens of America. Now that right there is crazy enough, and they allowed that. But guess what? He got caught. And he got caught, not because of this insanity of Maine, but because he illegally tried to get a gun. What nailed him was a NICS check when he went to get a gun. Lo and behold, his firearm. And there’s pictures of him you can see online with his firearm on his person, even. He’s an illegal alien. He can’t have a gun. He can’t purchase a gun. Teddy Nappen 20:06 Does it say what he was trying to buy? Evan Nappen 20:08 No, I don’t know. Let me see. I didn’t catch exactly what it was. Apparently, it was a handgun, of course. But yeah. So, ICE arrested the illegal alien who was hired as a police officer in Maine after he attempted to buy a gun. And this is really something. Teddy Nappen 20:32 I just realized now, and it’s pretty funny. I remember seeing it said that the NSA, DOJ and ATF would be cooperating with ICE. I thought they were just going to be moving units over to help them with immigration. I didn’t think the NICS check would be a way of how they would catch illegals. That’s hilarious. Evan Nappen 20:53 Well, interestingly, President Trump’s reinvigoration of the restoration of rights will not allow illegal aliens to obtain firearms. So, I guess The Trace would be good with that, too. I would hope they would be, right? You know, no, they probably wouldn’t be. They would probably say no. That would be the exception they would make. Only illegal aliens should be able to possess guns in America. Nobody else, just illegals. That’s fine, you know. No problem, right? Teddy Nappen 21:29 Do they say where he tried to get it? Because it would be very hilarious. Page – 6 – of 15Evan Nappen 21:34 From a dealer. It didn’t say. Teddy Nappen 21:35 Yeah, I know. I know, but it’d be kind of funny. If he was driving, and, you know, they caught him outside Bob’s Clam Hut near Kittery. Evan Nappen 21:45 Yeah, I don’t know where he went to get it, but that, you know. But, yeah, I love the clams of Bob’s Clam Hut. Oh, man, we love them. They’re really good. Teddy Nappen 21:54 I know, but that’s why I just, would have. It would have been. Just every time we go to the Kittery Trading Post, we’ll just see. I Evan Nappen 21:59 I don’t think it was Kittery. Who knows where he went? It doesn’t matter. The dealer did right. The dealer, you know, followed the law, and did the NICS check. And lo and behold, he gets caught. Well, there you go. You know, maybe you shouldn’t be hiring illegal aliens to be police officers. Maybe that’s like, the starting point here. Teddy Nappen 22:19 I really want that conversation. I really want that conversation with the dealer. Who is this? Your NICS check came back negative. Evan Nappen 22:30 To the officer, no less. Teddy Nappen 22:32 The officer was rejected. Evan Nappen 22:34 Yeah, yeah. I mean that alone. Like, What? What? How does that happen? So, I mean, it’s just crazy. And can you imagine this guy? Let’s say he actually busts a criminal. I’m a defense attorney, and he’s going to be a key witness in this case. I’m going to see about it. See if I can bring in his legality of him having this arrest authority and acting as police officer even. I mean, even that. Is that even legal in Maine? To be a police officer if you’re an illegal alien? If that is actually legal in Maine, Maine needs to pass some laws to make it clear what credentials are required to be law enforcement there. Holy cow. It’s crazy. So, anyway, they’re not to possess guns, not to purchase guns. Illegals can’t have guns. Look even if you are lawful, like a green card holder, it’s still very complicated. There are regulations to even possess a firearm if you’re legally here. No less, just forget it, if you’re illegally here. I mean, just not happening. So, you know. Page – 7 – of 15Teddy Nappen 23:46 I know. I thought that they were going to lower, like, you know, under Biden. They were trying to lower the standards. I didn’t think, not being a naturalized citizen. They were lowering it to that level. Evan Nappen 23:59 No, they, you know, a non-citizen. Teddy Nappen 24:01 Yeah, no. They’re like. Evan Nappen 24:03 Non-citizen is one thing, but illegal alien, someone who’s here illegally, cannot have a gun. It’s that simple. You can’t, okay? Just how it goes, man. You can’t have a gun if you’re an illegal alien. So, there you go. Interesting, crazy. Hey, I want to talk about our favorite range, Teddy, where you and I shoot, which is WeShoot, of course. WeShoot is having a huge Summer Sale. They are offering, get a load of this, man, 20% off all their pre-owned guns. That’s 20% off. That’s significant because, you know, there’s a lot of profit in guns, and 20% off is very substantial. And that’s off, apparently, their entire pre- owned inventory. That’s pretty cool. It’s all pre-loved guns, pre-loved, and we love our guns. But if you have a pre-loved gun and you treasure it, that’s one thing. But if you want to buy somebody else’s pre- loved gun that WeShoot has, you can get 20% off. And of course, WeShoot is where we shoot, literally. We shoot at WeShoot and that’s where we got our training. It’s where we got our CCARE certificate for our carry license. They have great training, great facility, awesome range, and a great pro shop. Everything you need right there so you can exercise responsibly, properly, and with a lot of fun, your Second Amendment rights. WeShoot is an indoor range in Lakewood, New Jersey, conveniently located off the Parkway. You can go to weshootusa.com. Go to their website, beautiful pictures. Check out the WeShoot girls, too. They have some beautiful guns that they are displaying, and it’s not hard to look at any of those guns. Take my word for it. So, check out weshootusa.com. Evan Nappen 26:15 And don’t forget our good friends at the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. They are the premier gun rights group for New Jersey. They are our stalwart defenders of our Second Amendment rights in New Jersey. They have a full-time paid lobbyist in Trenton, and they are litigating, as we speak, in federal court. They’ve made a difference, a big difference, in this very difficult fight in New Jersey to maintain our Second Amendment rights. I mean, I just saw one of the studies that said New Jersey of all 50 states has the lowest gun ownership as a percentage. That’s pretty sad. It’s pretty sad that New Jersey is rock bottom when it comes to gun ownership, and we hardly have the lowest crime rate. You know, we probably are down on the bottom when it comes to just freedom generally, but we’re there on the bottom with gun rights. I hope we can change that as we see the gun laws, which are designed to discourage individuals from exercising their rights. It is a gun rights suppression state, and you can see that their suppression is, unfortunately working. You’ve got to fight it. We’ve got to fight it. We’re battling it. Make sure you belong to the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs, ANJRPC.org. They will send you out great emails, keeping you informed. You can do easily few clicks and let your voice be heard. You can make a difference, and they are making a difference in this battleground state of New Jersey where we’re fighting for our Constitutional rights. Page – 8 – of 15Evan Nappen 28:06 And if you want to see just how crazy New Jersey gun laws are, make sure you get my book New Jersey Gun Law. It’s the Bible of New Jersey gun law. It is 120 questions under 20 topics, sorry, more questions than 120 topics in all question and answer format, and that’s why it’s over 500 pages. But it is your guidebook, your stay out of jail book, your not become a GOFU book for New Jersey. Go to EvanNappen.com and get your book today. When you do, scan the QR code on the front and join for free my private subscriber base. You will get updates on the law as it comes out. And you’ll be able to immediately go to the archives and download the 2025 Comprehensive Update, which has a standalone chapter on sensitive places, something very important, where you can and can’t carry. It’s chock full of great information. It’s indispensable if you’re a gun owner in New Jersey. Go to EvanNappen.com. Hey, Teddy. What do you have today in Press Checks? Teddy Nappen 29:11 Well, I was scrolling through Bearing Arms news, and I thought I was on the Babylon Bee for a moment. I had to make sure this is actually real, though. Of course, everyone’s favorite country, known as the United Kingdom, you always think you know can’t go any lower. Yeah, you can’t go any lower. Like you can be arrested for a thought crime, arrest people for, you know, what they do. Evan Nappen 29:43 Yeah, they do thought crime arrests there. They literally do thought crime, with the woman silently praying. Teddy Nappen 29:48 Yeah, it was outside. Evan Nappen 29:49 Yeah. And then, and then, or putting a post up on social media that you don’t like illegal aliens in your country. Then what? You get two years for that? Something insane. Teddy Nappen 30:01 Oh, yeah. Well, we don’t want to, we don’t want to offend anybody. But, from Bearing Arms news, UK Man Arrested Over Gardening Tools. (https://bearingarms.com/tomknighton/2025/07/29/uk-man- arrested-over-gardening-tools-n1229413) By the way, he was in his own garden. Evan Nappen 30:12 Oh, my God. So, he’s a gardener who had, how dare they allow a gardener to have gardening tools in UK. What garden tools did he have? Teddy Nappen 30:21 So, this is from Tom Knighton, from Bearing Arms. Man who returned home from his allotment, his garden allotment, with a truck of vegetables and gardening tools strapped to his belt. Page – 9 – of 15Evan Nappen 30:35 So, his allotment is his grounds where he’s allowed to garden, right? Teddy Nappen 30:38 Yeah. Yeah. Evan Nappen 30:39 So, they limit where you can garden, I guess. But he somehow got them to bless his garden with an allotment, and he’s returning with his fruits of his labor. Teddy Nappen 30:51 Yep, and he was. Evan Nappen 30:52 And what did he have? Teddy Nappen 30:53 He was arrested and shoved against the wall. Man wearing kayaking clothing arrested for possession of a knife. What knife? Well, quite simply, a Japanese garden sickle. Evan Nappen 31:10 Oh, man that he was cutting his vegetables off with and pruning and doing all the gardening work. Yeah. Evan Nappen 31:16 Oh, my God. A garden trowel? That is a weapon of mass destruction, a garden trowel. How dare he have a garden trowel? Teddy Nappen 31:16 He had two things. One, a hoary hoary garden trowel on a canvas sheaf and an Ice Bear Gardeners sickle. Teddy Nappen 31:36 Yeah. And what was very funny, and I’ll give them credit. The Japanese sickle isn’t as curved, so it has, like the Western one, you see, like sickles curved out where this one isn’t as much, but it’s the same. It’s used the same thing. It’s a sickle for gardening and. Evan Nappen 31:55 Well, you know how death carries a sickle, right? It’s always put out as death with a sickle, right? That should become the symbol of U.K. when it comes to your rights. Just death to your rights with a sickle. Teddy Nappen 32:10 Yeah, and well, it’s pretty funny, as I then pulled, there was a later article by your news from the your news media newsroom, so it goes into detail. (https://yournews.com/2025/07/30/3716989/uk-gardener- Page – 10 – of 15arrested-for-carrying-trowel-and-sickle-in-his/) So, while in detention, so they’ve already arrested him. They hauled him into the little interrogation room, and he’s being interviewed without legal representation. You know, no rights in the United Kingdom, of course. Evan Nappen 32:38 Well, they don’t have a Bill of Rights, that’s for sure. Evan Nappen 32:40 Yeah, that’s actually a good question, right? Teddy Nappen 32:40 Yeah. And whether he intended to do something with the tools they classified as weapons. Evan Nappen 32:40 You know, if this was a Monty Python episode, I would have sooner believed it. Because, you know, it’s just British absurdity. Teddy Nappen 32:40 Yeah. And so, in his description, they started asking me questions like if I was autistic or anything like that. Asking me whether I had ever been in the army, whether I told people I was in the army. And then the police demanded he explain in very basic terms what an allotment garden is. Teddy Nappen 32:54 Yeah, I like to pay to be arrested and just like, and put me in the room and explain my crime. It’s utter insanity. And then it goes, even further. Evan Nappen 33:32 This tomato is definitely harvested. Something like that. Evan Nappen 33:37 A criminal record for garden tools, for garden tools. Teddy Nappen 33:37 Like, yeah. And it gets even worse. Although he maintained his innocence, Rao ultimately accepted the caution in order to be released, which means he now has a criminal record for garden tools. Teddy Nappen 34:00 I mean, yeah, that is. Evan Nappen 34:02 You know, at one time I thought it’d be great to visit the U.K. They had, you know, such a wonderful military history and so many fascinating things. I wouldn’t step foot in that place, man. Not a chance. Page – 11 – of 15Teddy Nappen 34:14 Yeah, you’ll be arrested for thinking about gardening tools. I will give the article credit and highlighted in 2018 the London Police decided to put out a tweet, or formerly Twitter, known as x, about their confiscation. They’re great, you know, we’re doing some good as they confiscate around the greatest do butter Yeah, a round tip butter knife, not a killer butter knife. Yeah, I know, right. Oh, and after being ruthlessly mocked, they had to take that post down. But see, my god, Evan Nappen 34:54 Yeah, so you see, Teddy. It’s really great on one hand, because you can see how extreme the rights suppression gets there and here with the knife liberty movement, how important it is as we’re repealing knife laws, repealing knife laws. And by the way, switchblades in the U.K. are called flick knives. Of course, they’re all banned as well. Flick knives. That’s what they like to ban there, and so many other things they ban. Any thing they can come up with as conceivably a weapon. They seem to immediately have to feel they have to ban it. Ban it. Well, even if it’s guarding tools. So, be it, right? Teddy Nappen 35:39 Yeah, it’s pretty funny. So, I was wondering, okay, what is it they actually ban? What is their law? So, I actually went to the government of the U.K., buying and carrying knives. Basic laws of knives and weapons. It is illegal to use any knife or weapon in a threatening way. Evan Nappen 35:56 Oh, that’s okay. Teddy Nappen 35:58 It is also illegal to carry most knives or any weapons in public without good reason. What is good reason? Well, you’re going to have to go to court when we arrest you for that. Evan Nappen 36:12 That’s nice. So, you’re guilty till proven innocent. That sounds very fair. Teddy Nappen 36:17 Yep. And they have. Evan Nappen 36:18 So, then, every type of absurd arrest like this could take place, and then the people get totally intimidated there over the system. So, this guy takes a hit by having a criminal record for having gardening tools. I mean, that is, I’ll tell you one thing that the UK does. It can actually, at times, make New Jersey actually look good. So, I guess it serves a purpose. It serves a purpose because it makes it clear that New Jersey can actually get worse. It can get worse. New Jersey could become the U.K. and, you know, it’s close. It’s close. But, you know, this is why the fight is so critical. It’s so critical because we don’t want to become the U.K. insanity. We’ve got to stand and fight because this is what awaits us if we don’t. It’s outrageous. Well. Page – 12 – of 15Teddy Nappen 37:17 It’s also quite insane. If you’re ever bored, just go on and look up their list. (https://www.gov.uk/buying- carrying-knives) I love they go with foot claw, hand claw, zombie knife. What is a zombie knife? Evan Nappen 37:31 Oh, yeah, a zombie knife. Well, you know, you never know, man. If zombies attack, if we’re going to have a zombie apocalypse, you better have the correct tools to take care of those zombies. You know, I’m all for that. I don’t know why they banned zombie knives, but maybe. I guess they’re supporting zombie rights in this. You know, they don’t want to see any discrimination against zombies or any threats to zombies, because of their love of zombies. And you know the U.K. is just protecting every kind of imaginable creature, ghost and goblin they can come up with. I guess that’s probably why. Teddy Nappen 38:17 Well, obviously, and it’s just, at times I’m just wondering. Like, at some point, they’re just going to have to say, okay, we’re going to be banning cars. We’re going to be banning, we’re going to be banning spoons. Like, at some point they’re just going to have to, at some point, they’re just going to, like, all right, we’re banning fists. You have to have your hands completely open at all times. Evan Nappen 38:42 At all times. Teddy Nappen 38:44 There’s no it is just progressivism for progressive sake. They have no end. Evan Nappen 38:49 And focusing on intrinsic objects that are not in and of themselves, good or evil. You know, it’s just not. It’s the person, but it’s not a person focus anymore. It’s instead this selling this garbage to the public to make it look like they’re doing good as they just oppress, oppress, oppress. So sick. Teddy Nappen 39:15 Brought to you by the Government that is trying to block out the sun. Evan Nappen 39:20 Ah, well, the sun can cause damage to your skin, of course. I guess we better ban the sun. Banning the sun. Ban the sun. Well, hey, I have a letter here, and this is to ask Evan. It’s from Frank. And Frank says, I’m looking to purchase a shotgun. It’s a standard manufacturing DP12 pump action with a capacity, I believe, of 14 plus two. I know the gun is legal in New Jersey, but I’d like to know if there’s any formal compliance letter for this particular model that says so. I’m getting conflicting information from gun dealers. I just want to educate myself. Thank you so very much for your time. Have a great day. God bless the Second Amendment. Evan Nappen 39:59 Well. So, let me tell you, Frank. There is no “compliance letter”. New Jersey doesn’t do “compliance letters”, anyway, but the reason it’s legal is very simple. You don’t need a compliance letter. The only Page – 13 – of 15shotguns that are banned in New Jersey, there are two. Essentially, one is sawed-off shotguns, short- barrel shotguns, and the other is a shotgun that qualifies as an assault firearm. And there are only two types of shotguns that qualify as assault firearms. One is the revolving cylinder shotgun, such as Street Sweeper or Striker 12, and the other is semi-automatic shotgun. So, it’s the first thing that it must be. Semi-automatic. Since the DP 12 is pump, it’s not a revolving cylinder shotgun, and it’s not a semi- automatic shotgun. It doesn’t even get out of the gate as to whether it’s prohibited. Evan Nappen 41:04 Now, if it was a semi-automatic shotgun, then it cannot have any one of the following features. It’s crystal clear under the law what it can’t have. It cannot have a folding stock. It cannot have a magazine capacity over six rounds. Okay? And the interesting thing there is that the six-round capacity is in the law, by the way. But in the Attorney General guidelines, because they copied verbatim the Federal 1994 Crime Bill in trying to save the assault firearm law, they say five rounds in there, but that was the federal law. New Jersey’s law actually says six rounds. The third thing you cannot have on a semi- automatic shotgun is a pistol grip. So, if you have a semi-automatic shotgun with a folding stock, a pistol grip, or a magazine capacity exceeding six rounds, then you have an assault firearm, which makes that shotgun prohibited as an assault firearm. Or if it’s a revolving cylinder shotgun, then that becomes prohibited as well as assault firearm. Evan Nappen 42:18 Now, one of the guns that sometimes is questioned is that Rossi revolving cylinder 410, but if you have the Rossi revolving cylinder 410, the barrel on it is rifled. So, even though it can fire a 410 shot shell, it is not a 410 shotgun, because shotguns under New Jersey law have to have a smooth bore. Since it’s rifled, as long as you have the rifle barreled version, you’re fine, even with a revolving cylinder. But that’s the law on shotguns and New Jersey that’s the actual law. You can also read about this in my book. So, that’s the closest you’ll get to a formal compliance letter is reading about these things in my New Jersey Gun Law book. But Frank, thanks for the letter. Evan Nappen 43:09 And now we have the segment that everybody loves and looks forward to, and that is the GOFU. The GOFU is the Gun Owner Fuck Up. We like to look at gun owner fuck ups, because you don’t want to become a GOFU. So, you get a chance here to learn from mistakes that others have made. This is a very serious mistake. I want to talk about a very serious GOFU. I call it the coup de gras. If you’re involved in a self-defense situation where you’re justified in using deadly force and you end up shooting your gun, you must only be doing that while you have an active threat. Once the threat is gone, you are no longer justified in using deadly force because it is based on that threat of serious bodily injury or death. So, if you see or hear of a situation where a bad guy, where there’s justification of using deadly force, and the person is hit by a round and goes down and the gun is no longer in their hand. If they are on the ground and they are no longer a threat, you cannot go up to that person and just put an extra bullet in their head. Okay? You cannot do that. You can’t give a coup de grace in a self-defense situation. While hunting, sure. If you’re hunting and you wound game and you come up to it, you need to put it down. Then coup de grace are fine in hunting and of course, that’s the humane thing to do. But that is not what you do in a self-defense, use of deadly force, situation. Page – 14 – of 15Evan Nappen 45:03 This is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws do not protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens. Speaker 2 45:15 Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state. Page – 15 – of 15 Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S3 E249_Transcript About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets. Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News. As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists. He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America. Email Evan Your Comments and Questions  [email protected] Join Evan’s InnerCircleHere’s your chance to join an elite group of the Savviest gun and knife owners in America.  Membership is totally FREE and Strictly CONFIDENTIAL.  Just enter your email to start receiving insider news, tips, and other valuable membership benefits.   Email (required) *First Name *Select list(s) to subscribe toInnerCircle Membership Yes, I would like to receive emails from Gun Lawyer Podcast. (You can unsubscribe anytime)Constant Contact Use. Please leave this field blank.var ajaxurl = "https://gun.lawyer/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php";

  Episode 248-Open Letter to President Trump Also Available OnSearchable Podcast Transcript Gun Lawyer — Episode 248 Transcript Gun Lawyer — Episode 248 Transcript SUMMARY KEYWORDS Cashless bail, President Trump, gun rights, Second Amendment, New Jersey, firearm offenses, suppressors, NFA taxes, ammunition pricing, law enforcement, gun safety, legal challenges, gun laws, gun ownership, gun legislation. SPEAKERS Evan Nappen, Teddy Nappen, Speaker 2 Evan Nappen 00:15 I’m Evan Nappen. Teddy Nappen 00:17 and I’m Teddy Nappen. Evan Nappen 00:19 and welcome to Gun Lawyer. So, President Trump has announced, amongst so many things, he’s hard to keep up with. I will admit that. He’s announced that he wants to end cashless bail particularly after the criminal migrant shot the border officer in New York. Cashless bail is a huge problem. This was put forward by the Soros progressive crowd, and President Trump is absolutely right. But I want to give today on the show, an open letter to President Trump about cashless bail. Not because I, in any way, am critical of him wanting to get rid of cashless bail. I completely support getting rid of cashless bail. But there’s another reason that I want President Trump to know as to why cashless bail has to go. Evan Nappen 01:32 And you see what President Trump talks about, and this is from an article in the Washington Times, July 22, by Matt Delaney, where he states that President Trump has called for an end of the cashless bail after two illegal immigrants with numerous arrests shot an off-duty border officer in New York City during a failed stickup. (https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2025/jul/22/trump-wants-cashless-bail- ended-criminal-migrants-shoot-border/) And what President Trump said is that the worst criminals are flooding our streets and endangering even our great law enforcement officers. It’s a complete disaster. This must be ended immediately, and he’s right about that. Cashless bail acts like a revolving door for genuine bad guys, the rapists, the murderers, and with a particular focus on letting the illegal immigrants out, you know, of course. And anything that the progressive left supports, any criminals that they like, they love, to have the cashless bail. So, they can bring them in and let him go again to further commit havoc on America. And that is the plan with cashless bail. Evan Nappen 02:47 Because what cashless bail does is it removes traditional bail. That means if you get arrested, a judge decides whether to let you out or not. There’s a great deal of leniency and manipulation that takes place Page – 1 – of 11in these things, and these really terrible people that are danger to society end up getting released. And this situation that President Trump is referring to is one of so many examples of this. By the way, this was followed up by Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem, and she also complained about this and how sanctuary policies, in addition to this stuff, causes a problem. And of course, in New York Mayor Adams, who is a Democrat, he is, to his credit, opposing the state bail laws and allowing these migrants out. Evan Nappen 03:51 So, this is definitely an important issue. But the reason for my open letter to President Trump is that what isn’t being talked about, which is critical to being discussed when it comes to cashless bail, is how cashless bails are used. Not just to release these heinous criminals back onto our streets, but also used in the opposite way, to imprison otherwise law-abiding gun owners on technical firearm offenses. New Jersey has cashless bail, and it is used in this way. It is used as the Gun Owner Gulag. And since gun owners are not favored, since the Second Amendment is hated, since there is a Second Amendment oppression that runs through the system, taking place when you. If somebody is charged with a gun offense, they are now subject to the opposite, to all the propaganda being put forward about the evil of firearms and why a person would have a gun, and all that happy crap and that is used to try to keep that person imprisoned until their trial. It could be years before the person is released. Evan Nappen 05:31 And right now, as we speak, as many of you are aware, because we talked about it on the show, New Jersey has a bill that passed already one of the houses and was about to pass the second house and about to go to the Governor’s desk. Now, luckily, it’s been delayed over the recess, but it’s going to haunt us and come back again for sure. And what it does is it states that anybody charged with any firearm offense at all, there will be a presumption against release, in which that person will have to stay imprisoned with no bail, just the opposite, and it will affect so many gun owners that are not guilty of anything. We’re talking about false charges on assault firearms that I see all the time. We’re talking about misunderstanding by law enforcement over the actual way sensitive places work. New Jersey is also looking at criminalizing accidental discharge. So, any accident, you become a firearm offender, and now are going to stay in the Gulag. Evan Nappen 06:41 So, what I say to President Trump is, yes. I’m totally with you on getting rid of cashless bails. But please go forward with the other reason to get rid of cashless bails, and that is that cashless bails are political. Cashless bails are used by those to go after their political enemies. Cashless bail is the weaponization of bail against gun owners and others who are not liked by the powers that be that are in control, and that is also what needs to be put out there. That is where the bully pulpit of the Presidential microphone needs to exclaim this other factor. You don’t have to take my word for it. All you’ve got to do is look at what New Jersey does and how they intend to further this evil by making the laws even more harsh and draconian on law-abiding gun owners. This is truly a crisis, and it is a problem. It is designed to disenfranchise gun owners. It is designed to discourage self-defense. It is designed to stop individuals from carrying so they can be defenders instead of victims. Page – 2 – of 11Evan Nappen 08:30 You have to look at the cashless bail situation in the big picture, because it’s not just making cashless bail with a presumption against release for a firearm offense. But you have to look at what the state makes firearm offenses. They create an untenable matrix of the most confusing and asinine laws you can imagine to make it extremely difficult for a law-abiding citizen to stay law abiding. They create arbitrary and capricious laws. They create vague laws as well, and they are very difficult to manage. They do not train law enforcement when the case law takes bites out of the law. I’ve seen this in my practice over and over again, of law-abiding citizens facing the Gulag. Luckily, I’m very good at getting our guys out, but there are so many that end up not getting out, particularly when others that aren’t as familiar with all the nuances and the way to overcome and call out the anti-gun Second Amendment oppression bias that is being exhibited in any of these hearings. Evan Nappen 10:05 So, cashless bails need to go. And President Trump, I would ask you please also mention and emphasize the other use of cashless bails, which is essentially to go after your constituents. To go after those folks that treasure and want to exercise their Second Amendment rights and not face the threat of being held in jail, convicted of nothing over the most technical, absurd and confusing laws in the United States, which this handful of progressive left, blue, idiotic states have put on their books. New Jersey is the worst offender trying to make it even worse. This is the reality of the issue of cashless bail. This second point has to be made part of the public awareness to the problem with cashless bail. Evan Nappen 11:29 Let me also bring to your attention something really great that President Trump did. As you know, the big, beautiful bill passed, and in that was, of course, the removal of the NFA, National Firearm Act, taxes on silencers, what we call suppressors, but the law calls silencers and on short barrel rifles and on AOWs, any other weapons. By removing the tax, of course, as we’ve discussed, that’s great, because now the door is open for the big, beautiful lawsuit to take out the NFA, which is tax based. But that’s not all the big beautiful bill did for gun owners. I want to bring out something that apparently very few folks are talking about. And this is from an article from AmmoLand, a great gun rights news site. This article is called “The Golden Age of Small Arms Ammunition? The Part of Trump’s Big Beautiful Bill No One Is Talking About”. (https://www.ammoland.com/2025/07/golden-age-of-small-arms- ammunition-trumps-big-beautiful-bill/) Evan Nappen 12:38 Well, I want to talk about it, and this is really interesting. One of the things in the Big Beautiful Bill is that it will have a dramatic effect, apparently, on ammunition pricing and availability, making it incredibly more affordable and way more available. In the bill, there is literally $42 million for investments in second sources for rocket motors and hypersonic missiles. But then right after that, there is $1 billion for the creation of next generation automated munitions production factories. Yes, let that sink in, folks. One billion for next generation ammo manufacturing. That is awesome. Then there’s $100 million for the production of small arms and medium ammunition, and there’s an additional $2 billion for the United States to stockpile critical minerals. These are minerals critical to the production of ammunition. And $10 million for the expansion of the DoD armaments, core cooperation workforce. So, this has some great things in it. Page – 3 – of 11Evan Nappen 14:45 With $100 million for small arm, for small and medium ammo manufacturing. This means that ammo, you know, like .223, .556, and such is going to be even more prevalent, and it’s going to dramatically increase production with even more automation. With the $1 billion for high tech ammo factories, it appears that this will allow the factories to use robots and smart tech. And munitions, of course, is a broad word, but most likely it’s going to include small arms ammo, since the bill focuses on military needs. This could include upgrading, you know, like Lake City and starting new plants. So, this is very exciting, including, of course, don’t forget the $2 billion in ammo materials. That stockpile of materials means that stuff like copper for bullet jackets, lead cores and antimony to make them tough, all that will be put in place to avoid shortages that could raise prices and reduce our reliance on China. Plus $10 million for more ammo workers, working with the DOD and others. That means with more workers, fewer delays, no more round shortages. More rounds can get made. And all of this coming together really makes it seem that we will see a welcome change in ammunition inventory and pricing thanks to President Trump and the Big Beautiful Bill. Of course, the Republicans got it through, and it is now law. I also want to question. Go ahead, Teddy. Teddy Nappen 16:56 In regard, kind of going back to one thing on the cashless bail, I’m looking at. Would there be either an executive authority or executive power, or would that require an act of Congress? And even then, would they be able to overturn states powers in their ability to stop, like, to do cashless bail? Evan Nappen 17:17 Well, that’s a really good question. I think, you know, President Trump doesn’t seem to have any fear in putting out Executive Orders, but I don’t know whether that would be something that could be in his executive power. Now, plainly, Congress has the ability to write preemptive laws where they can preempt state and local laws. So, Congress, it seems, could pass a law that preemptively ends cash bails. They could, of course, relate it to the Eighth Amendment that guarantees us a reasonable bail because these outrages on both of the issues, either releasing the evil ones back into our society or using it, politically weaponizing it, seems to go at Constitutional concerns under the Eighth Amendment. Congress passing a preemptive law would definitely be the best path, if it could be done. They also might be able to use the federal grant and aid ability where monies wouldn’t go to states that have cashless bails. Money is for criminal justice. Money is for who knows what, whatever they want to use as the lever to get states to not have these outrageous laws. And of course, New Jersey always has its hand out for federal money. So, start threatening their money, and we could also see some results along those lines. But how they proceed with it, I don’t know. Just raising public awareness alone is a really good thing. Evan Nappen 19:11 Now I have a very interesting announcement here from our good friends at ANJRPC, which is the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. They are the NRA state affiliate, and they are the number one gun rights organization in New Jersey. And all my listeners should be a member of ANJRPC. You’ll get all their updates and emails. And if you are a member, you might, in fact, have gotten notice about this. ANJRPC has joined, as part of six leading gun rights organizations, filing in a Page – 4 – of 11joint lawsuit to overturn New Jersey’s suppressor ban. (https://www.anjrpc.org/page/ANJRPCJoinsLawsuitOvertunSupprBan) And it is about time. New Jersey bans the possession of suppressors, what you might call silencers. Now that the Big Beautiful Bill has removed the tax, there is a big, beautiful lawsuit challenging even the NFA, even if they’re successful federally in killing the federal ban, New Jersey State ban needs to go. And of course, legislatively, our Democrat-controlled legislature, controlled by Second Amendment oppressors, is highly unlikely to pass laws reforming and removing the ban on silencers and suppressors. Evan Nappen 20:40 Even though, interestingly, the U.K., of all places, which is, you know, viciously out to end gun ownership there, they are actually moving toward removing their restrictions on what they call sound moderators. And why? Because sound moderators or silencers or suppressors are very useful tools. They are hearing protection. Would you run your car without a muffler? Well, why should you run your gun without a muffler? That’s what a silencer is, and it doesn’t sound like you see on TV shows. It still makes noise, just not ear splitting, eardrum damaging noise. They’re very useful for training. So, you can hear range commands. And for hunting, so you can listen for game, and for that matter, other hunters. They are great for home defense. If you have to shoot your gun in your house, you won’t blow your ears out. There’s so many positives and hearing protection being critical, and number one among them. This is now a time that has come to try to knock out New Jersey’s ban. I’m very proud, and so should you be, of our state Association joining in this big lawsuit going specifically after New Jersey’s archaic ban on suppressors. It is really about time. Evan Nappen 22:26 And from the ANJRPC news release, they have made it clear. For example, the ban on suppressors in New Jersey is an unacceptable violation of the Second Amendment rights for law-abiding gun owners across the Garden State. Suppressors are essential safety devices that protects hearing and preserves situational awareness for millions of gun owners and sportsmen. And that is a statement quoted from a essay by the American Suppressor Association (ASA) President and Executive Director, Knox Williams. It is precisely on point. And you have the backing here of Safari Club International. You have NRA-ILA and SAF on board. You have the Executive Director of ANJRPC, Scott Bach, saying, this case will send shock waves through New Jersey State House, where lawmakers pretend that the Second Amendment doesn’t apply to them. They’re about to get a wake up call like no other. ANJRPC is proud to be part of this historic effort. Also joining is NJFOS. Their director, Joe Loporto, says, we are proud to stand among our partners at the ASA, NRA, SAF, ANJRPC and Safari Club in this critical step to restore the Second Amendment rights of New Jersey residents. There is nothing ‘common sense’ about a total ban on suppressors, an arm that can only be used by people of this state to exercise their core Constitutional rights in a safer manner. So, that’s a really good point. Evan Nappen 24:26 Because the anti-gun rights, you know, the oppressors, say oh, it’s always about gun safety. Gun safety. Of course, it’s a lie to pass gun control. Well, if you truly care about gun safety, then you should be joining these groups in supporting removing the ban on suppressors, because that will make guns safer. Safer from causing damage to hearing. Safer by creating situational awareness for individuals, whether hunting or defending themselves. Safer for individuals getting training and gun safety. So, they Page – 5 – of 11can hear range commands without having to wear hearing protection. All these great advantages and all flowing to genuine safety. So, this is a great issue. I’m really glad to see, and I’m sure you are, too, this legal effort proceeding. So, make sure you belong to ANJRPC. Go to www.anjrpc.org and join as a member today. Be part of the solution. Evan Nappen 25:42 And I also want to talk about our good friends at WeShoot. WeShoot is an indoor range in Lakewood, New Jersey. A great resource in Central Jersey. It’s where Teddy and I both shoot and got our training, got our certificates. They have a fantastic facility. They are not just a range, but also a pro shop and phenomenal trainers. They also offer some great deals. As a matter of fact, right now, they have a Colt King Cobra Target, which is a modern double action, single action revolver with stainless steel swagger, precision-target sights, and Colts signature smooth action. They have a Glock 23 Gen 5 chambered in .40 S&W, which we might be talking about later. Built with Gen 5 upgrades like flared magwell and Marksman barrel for a serious EDC performance. Then they have the Mossberg Silver Reserve HS12. That’s an over and under home-defense beast with clean lines, dual barrels, and Mossberg’s rugged reputation. Evan Nappen 27:00 And by the way, don’t miss Shannon, who is turning heads with the Samurai “Other”, rocking bold gold accents and a whole lot of attitude. And I’m talking about the Samurai “Other”, of course. The piece is equal parts elegance and edge, a true range stunner. And again, talking about the gun. But you may want to check out Shannon. And I would suggest you do by going to the website for WeShoot, which is weshootusa.com. Make sure you pay a visit, and you can see the other WeShoot gals there. And you can see all these great guns. You can get great deals on these guns and get the training that you need. It is your one-stop shop in New Jersey. Conveniently located off the Parkway. Evan Nappen 27:53 Hey, Teddy, what do you have for us today in Press Checks? Teddy Nappen 28:00 Well, as you know, Press Checks are always free. This kind of came out when we were just in a conversation. I started to look around and go, where’s all the pistols that take 40? Where’s all the 40s? Evan Nappen 28:16 Yeah, and here it seems. It’s kind of funny, because here WeShoot is because they know that .40 is actually a decent caliber. But go ahead, Teddy. Teddy Nappen 28:27 Yeah, and there seems to be a little bit of a divide. This is just my observation from what I’ve researched. There’s this kind of the Rise and Fall of .40 S&W, and there seems to be this kind of debate. Is .40 becoming an obsolete caliber? Is it still coming into play? So, I wanted to do a bit of research and understand the origins of it all. Page – 6 – of 11Evan Nappen 28:52 Sure. Teddy Nappen 28:53 It kind of where it all began, actually, was in 1979. This is from the Shooter’s Log by Ed Laporta. (https://blog.cheaperthandirt.com/the-failure-of-the-40-smith-wesson/) So, he writes that in 1979 Thomas Dornaus and Michael Dixon started to develop a new semi-automatic pistol to close the gap between the power of revolvers and semi-automatic pistols. Their goal was to create actually something at the power level that would exceed the .45 ACP and the .357 Magnum. That was their goal, and their research actually led to Jeff Cooper, of all people, when they were starting to formulate and come up with the design. Dornaus and Dixon were the engineers, but Jeff Cooper was the one who provided the conceptual design and criteria. Evan Nappen 29:49 I remember it well. I always read Jeff Cooper’s column. It was the first thing I read in Guns and Ammo. And boy, do I miss Jeff Cooper. He always had that back page, and Jeff Cooper’s stuff was great. And, yeah, he was a big proponent of the 10 millimeter. And I think what you’re going to talk about is the Bren 10. Not to steal your thunder, but. Teddy Nappen 30:15 It’s very funny. Just to point out to the audience. He didn’t see my notes, and I immediately was going to lead into the Bren 10. So, you can tell he knows his guns. Evan Nappen 30:24 I do. And as a matter of fact, do you know who made the Bren 10 famous? It was Miami Vice. Believe it or not. Oh yeah, they carried the Bren. Teddy Nappen 30:35 So, it was Cooper’s specifications for acquiring the new round to be this .40 caliber, 200 grain, fired in a five-inch barrel, impact velocity, 1000 per second at 50 yards. They were working with .45 ACP length, but the .40 caliber even shortened a 30 rim fire brass. The result was, of course, the Brent 10 by Cooper. Evan Nappen 31:00 And unfortunately, the Bren 10 as a handgun, there were all kinds of problems with production, distribution, and boy, trying to get extra mags was, you know, just unbelievably difficult. It’s a shame. Because the concept was great, but the execution in the Bren 10 was not great. Teddy Nappen 31:27 Yeah. And then flash forward a little bit to 1986. Evan Nappen 31:33 Wait, wait, wait, wait. You know how much I love the 10 millimeter Colt. Colt started making 1911 type guns in the Delta elite in 10 millimeter. So, now you could get your 1911, but instead of .45, it was the Page – 7 – of 11big bad 10, which was great. But if you shot them, they’re pretty much a high recoil firearm. Very effective, very powerful, very accurate. But it still didn’t get a foothold until, really today, where the 10 is super hot. The 10 is super hot. You had the polymer-type guns, particularly the Glock 20, which is a 10 millimeter. It’s one of my favorite guns. I love the Glock 20. The Glock 20 combines unbelievable stopping power with maximum firepower, 15 rounds in the mag. Of course, you can only have 10 in New Jersey. And the stopping power of 10 millimeter, and you can get really powerful loads. Particularly, one of the loads I love are the super hard cast coated rounds from under wood, which we call the cherry bombs. They are 220 grain hard cast coated bullets. At 220 grains with velocity at 1200 feet per second, that round can basically take down any animal on the planet. It gives absolute .41 Magnum power in a semi-automatic pistol. I’m sorry, Teddy, but you know how much I love 10. So, you got me going on it. But keep going. Tell us your story. Teddy Nappen 33:38 I hit all the buzzwords. Jeff Cooper. Evan Nappen 33:40 Yes, you did. You triggered me. You triggered me. Dude, yeah, I’m triggered. But go ahead. Teddy Nappen 33:47 So, after the Miami shoot out, the famed Miami shootout, they realized and actually looked to Jeff Cooper’s advice where they needed to arm law enforcement with a much more powerhouse as for the high performance in a semi auto pistol. Thus the brief marriage between the 10 millimeter and the FBI. As the FBI soon discovered, it was too much recoil for them. Evan Nappen 34:18 Too much recoil, but also because there was, unfortunately you had issues of a number of their personnel being smaller frame a lot, unfortunately, women that were not able to effectively fire this gun. There are many women that use it fine. I know that. But just in broad strokes, it became an issue for the general law enforcement use, not only of 10 millimeter, but of .41 magnum. That goes back to Bill Jordan, where they were working on law enforcement revolvers. They had .357 magnum, but they wanted something a little more. We had .44 magnum, but that was too much. They went forward with the .41 magnum, which was going to apparently overtake law enforcement as the revolver of choice. But this problem still ensued. Yet, the ballistics of .41 magnum and the ballistics of your high power 10 millimeter loads are very similar. Go ahead, Teddy. Teddy Nappen 35:37 So, with FBI realizing their small hands and their inability to handle a 10 millimeter, they soon contacted Smith & Wesson to create and modify the cartridge. They wanted it to be something slightly above the 9 millimeter. Thus, the Smith & Wesson, in conjunction with Winchester, the 40 S&W was born in January 1990. Evan Nappen 36:01 And it’s actually a good round. It’s a good round. I like .40 S&W, too. But weird things have happened. And you see this super popularity of the 9 millimeter that loads for nine have improved, and also the Page – 8 – of 11military uses nine. So, there’s more availability of 9 millimeter just in terms of price point. And those factors seem to have contributed to what’s up with the .40. But the .40 has a lot of punch, and for what it is, it fits in a 9 millimeter frame. Whereas, a 10 millimeter needed guns that essentially fired .45 ACP. They needed that kind of a frame. So, you could still have in a 9 millimeter frame package and have a more powerful cartridge, arguably. Teddy Nappen 37:00 So, this actually comes up from the Gun Zone by Wayne Fletcher. (https://thegunzone.com/is-the-40- caliber-dying/) He calls it the 9 millimeter Renaissance, the turning point in 9 millimeter ammunition. Where now modern nine has hollow points that offer terminal ballistics comparative to, and oftentimes exceeding that of the .40 S&W with generally less recoil. So, there you see. They’ve kind of moved that whole idea. Plus, you have the woke insanity. You have a lot more women that can’t even handle the .40. So, now they say, okay, we’ve got to bring it back to nine. And so, there seems to be a very much shift. Evan Nappen 37:40 Well, there is. But I gotta tell you, there’s nothing wrong with .40. There just isn’t. I mean, 9 is great, too. Look, the bottom line is this. A hit with a .22, a hit to your target with a .22 is better than a miss with a .44 magnum. Okay? That’s the bottom line when it comes to ballistics. Teddy Nappen 38:01 Yeah, and I will say that is something they do point out. They do argue that, no, .40 is not going away. It’s just slowed down a lot. Nine I mean, look, you could throw a rock, and you’ll hit a nine millimeter somewhere. So, it’s very much. Evan Nappen 38:23 And watch. These things go back and forth. Then you’ll suddenly see the rise of the .40 again. We’ve watched this take place over time. Hey, at one point people thought the .32, .32 auto, was dead. Along comes CCamp, and .32 gets a whole new life to it. Then it gets faded out again with .380s and other smaller, lighter semi autos. So, these things can come and go. But .40 is effective, and it is fine to use, without a doubt. And of course, 10 millimeter is in essence, the magnum of .40 caliber. They don’t call it .40 Magnum, but you could call it .40 Magnum because that’s what it does. And if you can handle a 10, especially in a polymer pistol, whether it’s a Glock 20 or the Smith & Wesson MMP, particularly the 2.0 or the Springfield that you know are available in polymer frames, you will find that the 10 millimeter in a polymer frame is really great. Because Polymer has, as one of its characteristics, even though it’s lighter in weight, a recoil absorption feature. It can have a little bit more ability to handle the recoil in its structure. So, this makes these guns even more viable than the old steel frame Delta elite, for example. Teddy Nappen 40:04 Oh, and I will say, Shooting Illustrated by Richard Mann, kind of hit the hammer on the nail with .40 S&W. (https://www.shootingillustrated.com/content/is-the-40-s-w-dead/) If you could describe anything, it’s the compromise cartridge. What does he mean by that? It gives you the weight advantage of the .45 and the shooting capability of the nine. It’s a compromise between the two. I feel like there may be a resurgence, given enough time and technology. I mean, they did this for the nine. Given enough time, Page – 9 – of 11maybe they’ll even come up with more improvements to .40 S&W, making it less recall, but still maintaining or even exceeding power. Evan Nappen 40:32 Well, it’s constantly evolving with ammunition, but this is definitely a fun discussion. It never ends amongst gun people about what’s the best and all that. I get it, but everybody has their preference. As long as you are a trained and responsible gun owner, I don’t care what caliber you choose. It’s all up to you. What you’re comfortable with and what you can shoot accurately. Because shot placement ultimately is what matters, and your ability to do that effectively is what counts. What works for you, works for you. But thanks, Teddy. Evan Nappen 41:04 I have a question here from Ask Evan. This is from Daniel. Daniel says this is a follow up to his earlier question about magazine limits in New Jersey. A large capacity ammunition magazine is defined as a box, drum, tube or other container which is capable of holding more than 10 rounds of ammunition to be fed continuously and directly therefrom into a semi-automatic firearm. Last time, I asked about belt fed rifle, whether the magazine limits would apply to belts. As a follow up, I’d like to ask whether magazine limits apply to stripper clips. Evan Nappen 41:53 No, they do not apply to stripper clips. Because stripper clips are not what are feeding into a semi- automatic firearm. The stripper clip allows you to hold the ammunition in place, and then, with a push of your thumb, load a magazine from the stripper clip. The stripper clip holds the ammunition without it having to be in a compressed magazine. Then you can reload magazines fast with stripper clips, but the stripper clip itself is not a magazine. Then Daniel goes on further to say. The Kel-Tec PR57 pistol is fed by 10 round stripper clips and does not have a detachable magazine. But the capacity of the pistol without a magazine is 21 rounds. With the New Jersey magazine limits, I think he said will, but he wrote with. Will the New Jersey mag limit apply where there’s no detachable magazine and only stripper clips? Evan Nappen 42:58 Well, you have to understand that it’s not a detachable magazine. You quoted the law, Daniel, in your own letter. What it says is very clear in a way. It says, believe it or not, for New Jersey. A box, drum, tube or other container which is capable of holding more than 10 rounds of ammunition to be fed continuously and directly therefrom into a semi-automatic firearm. Well, the fixed magazine in the handgun is still a magazine. The stripper clips are not the magazine. They’re simply a loading device to load into a magazine. I am sure the State will argue that the magazine in the gun is the container, and that container in the gun holds more than 10 rounds in which it feeds continuously and directly into a semi automatic firearm. Therefore, it’s a problem. Evan Nappen 44:10 We dealt with the issue of fixed magazines of larger capacity and handguns in the lawsuit that I brought years ago in Coalition v. Florio, where we were able to show that air guns, particularly air pistols, that had a BB reservoir over the limit, which at the time was 15, and that reservoir arguably fed continuously Page – 10 – of 11and directly into a semi-automatic firearm, even though it was an air gun, New Jersey considers air guns to be firearms. The court found that air guns were excluded because of the federal preemption protecting air guns. But it was still argued even then, that a firearm with a magazine capacity, even though it’s a fixed magazine capacity that exceeded it, was a violation of New Jersey’s law. So, I cannot give my blessing to the really cool Kel-Tec PR57 because the magazine in there would, in all likelihood, though I don’t have a test case on it. And I don’t think you want to become the test case. Saying that definitively, but I can sure see the arguments that the state would make. Evan Nappen 45:29 Now, here is the moment you’ve all been waiting for, which is the GOFU, the Gun Owner Fuck Up. And this is where actual cases that we constantly are getting and seeing and what’s trending in terms of mistakes that gun owners are making, and I don’t want to see any of my listeners make these mistakes. So, this is your opportunity not to be a GOFU and not to make expensive mistakes. This GOFU is really a reiteration of the Duty to Disclose. Please, please, please remember. If you’re carrying your gun, lawfully concealed, loaded on your person, and if you have a carry permit. If you’re stopped or detained by law enforcement, you must immediately tell the officer that you’re carrying your handgun, and you must produce your permit. Your failure to disclose is a felony in New Jersey, a felony level offense. It’s a year and a half in State Prison, my friends, if you fail to do this. That’s what you face. And if you do not produce your permit, you’re looking at six months max in the county jail on that GOFU. So, please make sure you abide by duty to disclose until such time as we get a win in court on the Constitutionality of requiring this disclosure. But for now, that is the law in Jersey, and it applies whether you’re in your vehicle and stopped or whether you’re on the street and stopped. If you’re stopped or detained, you need to disclose. Evan Nappen 47:02 This is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws do not protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens. Evan Nappen 47:02 Now, if you’re not stopped or detained, if an officer is just walking by and waves at you, and you wave at him, and there’s no stopping or detaining, you’re okay. But particularly if you’re in a situation where you are being detained and you are not free to leave, that’s the key. Are you free to leave? If you’re not free to leave, you’re being detained, and you better tell them. As a matter of fact, if you’re being stopped, questioned, and even if you’re not, even if you are free to leave, even there, it could be argued that you still have that duty to disclose. So, play it safe. Make sure you disclose. Otherwise you can become a GOFU and have to give me that call to get you out of the Gulag and defend you. Speaker 2 47:39 Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state. Page – 11 – of 11 Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S3 E248_Transcript About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets. Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News. As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists. He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America. Email Evan Your Comments and Questions  [email protected] Join Evan’s InnerCircleHere’s your chance to join an elite group of the Savviest gun and knife owners in America.  Membership is totally FREE and Strictly CONFIDENTIAL.  Just enter your email to start receiving insider news, tips, and other valuable membership benefits.   Email (required) *First Name *Select list(s) to subscribe toInnerCircle Membership Yes, I would like to receive emails from Gun Lawyer Podcast. (You can unsubscribe anytime)Constant Contact Use. Please leave this field blank.var ajaxurl = "https://gun.lawyer/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php";

  Episode 247-Fee Reductions Gaining Ground Also Available OnSearchable Podcast Transcript Gun Lawyer — Episode 247 Transcript SUMMARY KEYWORDS Second Amendment, carry permit fees, New Jersey, gun rights, NRA ILA, Citizens Committee, gun control, adolescent firearm deaths, National Shooting Sports Foundation, JAMA Pediatrics, self- defense, transporting firearms, school property ban, gun laws, gun rights oppression. SPEAKERS Teddy Nappen, Speaker 2, Evan Nappen Evan Nappen 00:15 I’m Evan Nappen. Teddy Nappen 00:16 And I’m Teddy Nappen. Evan Nappen 00:18 and welcome to Gun Lawyer. So, you know, we live in a tough environment, in New Jersey, where the gun rights oppressors are constantly going at us and the fight seems to be eternal. However, in one area, we are making positive gains, and every little bit counts. This is important because this affects us in the big picture as well. And what I’m talking about was reported a few shows ago from our good friend, John Petrolino, who had talked about Englishtown reducing permit fees by doing refunds on carry permit fees. As you may know, the Carry Killer bill, which was put forward in the kicking and screaming hissy fit by Murphy and the Democrats after the great Bruen decision, making it so permits have to be shall issue and issued by states. One of the provisions in there was to raise the two-year carry permit fee to a whopping $200. But in so doing, the legislation that passed allocated that 75% of that fee, $150, goes to the municipality that processes the carry permit application. Evan Nappen 01:50 As you may recall, the town of Englishtown that apparently and obviously respects the Second Amendment, on their own, passed a town ordinance to refund residents their portion of the $200 fee. So,$150 was refunded back to applicants because the fee is excessive, and it is detrimental to our exercise of Second Amendment rights, which was, of course, the intention of the Second Amendment oppressors in passing the law. I’m happy to report, and this is from an article by our good friend, Cam Edwards, at the great pro-gun news site called BearingArms. (https://bearingarms.com/camedwards/2025/07/17/third-new-jersey-town-votes-to-return-concealed- carry-fees-to-gun-owners-n1229293) Evan Nappen 02:52 A third New Jersey town has now voted to return concealed carry fees. So, first we had Englishtown do it, and then with support of Second Amendment groups like the NRA-ILA and Citizens Committee, there Page – 1 – of 10 was this push that is ongoing, and Franklin Township followed Englishtown in refunding fees. And now the Citizens Committee reports, and that’s quoted in the article as follows. “We’re delighted that officials in Dumont, a borough in Bergen County, have adopted Resolution 2025-216 to eliminate the municipal portion of the permit fee.” “State lawmakers set the high permit fee in an effort to discourage average citizens from applying for carry permits. We have joined forces with our friends at NRA/ILA and NJFOS in an effort to provide relief, and we’re happy to say it’s beginning to work.” And that is encouraging. This is the beginning of a movement to get positive action regarding the exercise of our Second Amendment rights. Evan Nappen 04:22 This is very important because not only does it make it more reasonable in terms of pricing, but it also is going to help out in the challenge to the excessive fees which is currently going on. There’ll be other challenges as well, and the fact that towns themselves are objecting to this and helping their own residents is just fantastic. So, we can do this town by town. Every town that joins is another statement in support of the Second Amendment. So, my congratulations to Englishtown, Franklin, and Dumont. The march is continuing to defending our Second Amendment rights and our right to defend ourselves and not be victims of crime, but rather defenders against those who wish to do ourselves and our loved ones harm. So, this is a great step forward. Now I also . . . go ahead. Teddy Nappen 05:38 I was going to ask. I’ve never once heard of a Government authority refusing money. Evan Nappen 05:45 Isn’t that even, just that alone is so refreshing that it’s mind boggling. That they would return any money, right? Evan Nappen 05:53 Right! No one does that. What are you crazy? And of course, when the Second Amendment oppressors passed the law, they thought that no town would ever turn away money. But they are wrong, and now it actually gives a platform for towns to express their support of our rights. So, it’s actually having a reverse effect, and it’s great to see. Teddy Nappen 05:53 That’s right out of that in the Cinderella Man, when the boxer goes to the welfare office and gives them back money. Like it’s . . . Evan Nappen 06:32 Now here’s another interesting news bit that I want to mention, also directly affecting New Jersey and the broader political dynamic that the lame stream media tries to shove down our throats. This is an article from Breitbart, another excellent news source. (https://www.breitbart.com/2nd- amendment/2025/07/16/report-stricter-gun-control-states-lead-in-adolescent-firearm-deaths/) This is written by Awr Hawkins. Hawkins is a great gun writer, and he writes a lot for Breitbart. He has cool articles, and I always love his stuff. The title of the article is “Report: Stricter Gun Control States Lead In Adolescent Firearm Deaths”. This news article has two very important factors to it. The article Page – 2 – of 10 discusses that the National Shooting Sports Foundation (NSSF), which is a national group that fights for gun rights and focuses on industry issues that directly affect our gun rights. They took a look at what was in June, 2025, and it was published in the Journal for American Medical Association Pediatrics, known as JAMA Pediatrics. The title of the study is “Firearm Laws and Pediatric Mortality in the US”. Evan Nappen 08:01 In this study, the authors looked at three groups in terms of grouping states, as far as their gun laws are concerned: strict, permissive, and most permissive. Now, guess where New Jersey falls into that? I bet you don’t have to guess real hard. You got a one out of three shot, folks. You’re right. It’s strict. The authors then claimed, now this is from the authors of that article, “. . . permissive firearm laws contributed to thousands of excess firearm deaths among children living in states with permissive policies; future work should focus on determining which types of laws conferred the most harm and which offered the most protection.” Evan Nappen 08:47 Now JAMA is, of course, part of the gun rights oppression movement. They were purposely, doctors and the medical staff were purposely brought in. We’re going to talk about this in a little more detail later. So, big shock that JAMA says, oh my, you know, we have any of these permissive states, it’s causing more deaths to kids. Except for one problem. Well, I’ll get to that in a minute. Establishment media, of course, like New York Times, ABC News and CNN ran with the author’s claim. Another big shock, right? Like they run with every hoax out there that can support their left wing anti-rights agenda. NSSF points out that these outlets never asked why the study’s authors manipulate the data by using estimated, predicted and crude rate adjusted figures, instead of analyzing the real incidents. Evan Nappen 10:06 NSSF responded by noting they took a simple look at the raw data of the CDC. The CDC data tells a completely different story. I’ll quote the article. “Rebuilding the data set using the same time, population and mechanism parameters established by the authors using CDC’s data tells a different story entirely. The eight states the authors rated as “Strict” and having the most restrictive gun laws – California, New York, Maryland, Rhode Island, Illinois, Connecticut, Massachusetts and New Jersey . . .” Of course. “. . . on average saw more unadjusted adolescent firearm mortality than the 11 “Permissive and 30 “Most Permissive” states.” So, there you go, folks. Evan Nappen 11:15 It is nothing but a lie perpetrated by those that want to oppress our rights and use the children as an excuse to further restrict freedom. And then do it in the name of safety, which, of course, it has nothing to do with safety. In fact, if that’s really what they wanted to do, then New Jersey would make its laws the “most permissive” as to what the data actually reflects. And in fact, New Jersey’s gun laws, since the most deaths occur in the strict states, are arguably contributing to more deaths. That’s right. Look what the data says. I mean, if they want to make a link between this data, then the reverse is also true. Those states with more gun laws have more kids dying. So, those states that heavily restrict firearms need to go permissive and/or more permissive. Analysis of the propaganda from the gun rights oppressors is very important, and I’m glad to see that NSSF stepped up to the plate and took a hard look at the facts and the reality of the situation, and that Cam Ewards of Bearing Arms, has put that out Page – 3 – of 10 for us to better understand the propaganda against our rights that we face. I have a letter here. Yeah, go ahead, Teddy. Teddy Nappen 13:05 I would say, just as well. They would always try to. I know I’ve seen a lot of the Democrats and the gun rights oppressors always say, oh, all the violent shootings, all the violent attacks are going on in the red states. And if you zoom in on the map. Where is it? Of course. Of course, it’s the Blue City strongholds. When you ever look at like Memphis or any of the like in the middle of the red states, there’s a nice blue blip, and that’s where it’s run by Democrats, controlled Democrat run through, in and throughout, and those have the highest amount of murder rates. Evan Nappen 13:39 Basically, it’s the urban Democrat controlled cities that actually ruin it for the states. And the states that have the largest cities are the states with the most gun rights oppression, because the cities can often dominate the state legislatures, and that’s how they pass their liberal left agenda. It’s not just on guns, but on so many things that end up harming our country. We see that all the time. So, yeah, good point. Look for those blue bastions of oppression. That’s, uh, who’s screwing us over. Evan Nappen 14:20 I have a letter here from Jack regarding self-defense from dangerous animals and wildlife. Hi, Evan. I love your show. I listen to it regularly, and it’s packed with useful knowledge and tips. I have two questions that I would like to ask you. One, what are the rules for engaging dangerous wild animals in self-defense? For example, if one uses their CCW on the side of the road or in a forested area to prevent harm from a dangerous animal, and in the process, the animal dies, what should one do? Are there specific laws regarding this in New Jersey? Evan Nappen 14:54 So, what we’ve seen in terms of actual self-defense when threatened by wild animals. There is some case law that I’ve been able to successfully use to argue that self-defense, although focused on defense of persons, can still be applied to defense in animals. And of course, the defense that you’re doing is to a bona fide threat to your person or to that of another. Then you have that ability to protect yourself. It is that ability of self-defense that is not only enshrined in our statutory law, but is even found in the Supreme Court decisions on Second Amendment. It’s also our right to self-defense. And don’t take that lightly, because in many so-called civilized nations, they ban self-defense. They ban the use of a firearm in self-defense, and often it is the defender, not the bad guy, that ends up being criminalized and sanctioned in the criminal justice system for having the nerve to defend themselves or their loved ones. But here we do have a right to self-defense. Evan Nappen 16:05 And question two, when transporting firearms to the range, does ammo need to be in a separate container, or can it be within a separate compartment within the same range bag, but a completely separate lock on the firearm being locked in a separate compartment with a different lock and key code? Okay, here’s the deal in New Jersey. We’re not talking about interstate transport under Title 18, 926 A. That’s where ammunition has to be separate. You want to have it in a separate container. I’d Page – 4 – of 10 advise that the container be secured and closed and locked, and if you are gun transport, make sure that’s in a locked box. Evan Nappen 16:39 But what I’m talking about is New Jersey’s exemptions. New Jersey’s exemptions are found under N.J.S. 2C:39-6, and throughout those exemptions, the ones that civilian citizens use the most, subsection e. and subsection f. Those deal with possession in one’s home, transporting to the range, transporting while hunting, etc. When transporting pursuant to exemptions, you go to subsection g., which mandates how one is to transport their firearms. Number one, the gun has to be unloaded and has to be in either a closed and fastened case, in a gun box, in a locked trunk, that should be locked in a trunk, or in a securely tied wrapper. The only criteria under New Jersey law is that the gun be unloaded. Ammunition itself in New Jersey does not have to be in a separate container. It’s a good idea to have it in a separate container. But in theory, you could take your unloaded gun, put it in a gun case, and dump a box of loose rounds right on top of the gun. As long as the gun is unloaded, shut the case, and you’re technically legal in New Jersey. Evan Nappen 17:53 Now, I don’t recommend doing that, but it’s just to illustrate. In New Jersey, the law simply stipulates the gun must be unloaded. It does not say that the ammo has to be transported in a separate, locked container or in a separate manner. However, it’s advisable to do that because, although not required by law, it makes an excellent statement as to your responsibility in your transportation of ammo and firearms. And you know, it means going that extra step just to show, again, not legally required, but showing just how responsible you are. Should push ever come to shove and we need to get some gun charge dropped by a prosecutor, it’s a lot better to say that your ammo was secured in such a manner and everything was separate. Thank you, Jack, for that question. Teddy Nappen 18:45 I will also say to kind of add to that. It was a previous GOFU where I think it was a guy pulling up to pick up his kid. He had unloaded his gun, and one of the ammo was loose and it fell out of the car. Evan Nappen 18:58 Good point, Teddy. And that’s always a possibility, too. So, I often will advise that you have the ammo boxes that hold each individual round, like MTM, or even the factory box. This way, not only is your ammunition stored very nicely, you actually know that every single round is accounted for and that you haven’t dropped loose rounds. So, you haven’t accidentally left a round in the magazine or the gun. And this way, it is a double check, a kind of a fail safe, double check, that always lets you know the ammunition quantity you have and that you’ve properly accounted for it. So, that is good stuff. Evan Nappen 19:40 Then we have a question here from Jason, regarding CCW question. I was considering getting my CCW, and I work for a public school system. I’ve gotten mixed messages whether I can park in the school lot, unload and store the weapon while sitting in the truck. This is the only reason I haven’t gotten it. I don’t want to get it just for the weekends. Thank you. Well, unfortunately, in New Jersey, there are two sections that prohibit guns in a school zone. One is a “sensitive place” that does, in fact, Page – 5 – of 10 instruct that in a parking lot, you can do that. But the problem is the other school property ban that was in place even before “sensitive places”. It does not have such an exemption. So, do not possess your firearm even unloaded and locked and cased on school property, meaning the parking lot, because there are two prohibitions there. And that’s where the confusion is setting in. Our legislature did a terrible service, not surprisingly, because individuals may think they’re okay if they’re just following the “sensitive place” rules, when in fact, there is a standalone separate under N.J.S. 2C:39-5e. that just bans guns flat out on school property. It doesn’t exempt for the parking lots. So, good question. Don’t become a GOFU on that one. Evan Nappen 21:02 Hey, let me mention our good friends at WeShoot. WeShoot is our indoor range in Lakewood, New Jersey, conveniently located right off the Parkway. That’s where Teddy and I both shoot. It’s where we got our training and certifications, and you can, too. They have a fantastic pro shop and a great range. They have specials on guns, great deals, great trainers, and a wonderful, wonderful environment. They treat everyone like family. You’ll love it there. You’ll love it there. Go to WeShoot in Lakewood. You can check out their website at weshootusa.com. Tell them that Evan and Teddy sent you. You will be glad you did. It is a great resource. Every one of our ranges are a treasure. We need places to shoot in crowded New Jersey and having a fantastic facility like WeShoot is just an awesome resource that you can take advantage of. Go there and shoot. Go to weshootusa.com and check out their website. Beautiful photography. And of course, they have the WeShoot girls, too. And if you want to look at them, you have my permission. I highly advise you checking out WeShoot. Evan Nappen 22:11 I also want to mention our good friends at the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs, the premier gun rights defender group in New Jersey. You need to be a member of your state Association. They’re the official NRA affiliate. They’re the guys that have the full time paid lobbyist in Trenton keeping an eye on New Jersey’s shenanigans and letting you know what further oppression they have in mind for us. What’s the next BOHICA (Bend Over – Hear It Comes Again) that the Democrats and Murphy want to do to us? Jump on a membership of the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. It’s ANJRPC.org. Join them and be part of the solution. When you do, you’ll get the email alerts that will tell you what’s going on and give you easy things you can do to make your voice heard and become part of the fight. It’s well worth it. You’ll stay on top of the events, and you’ll know that you’re doing your part. Go to anjrpc.org and join today. Evan Nappen 23:15 And let me also mention my book, New Jersey Gun Law. It is the Bible of New Jersey gun law, and it is a way for you to keep yourself from becoming a GOFU. By getting the book, you will receive not only 500 pages of New Jersey gun law, but 120 topics, question and answer. It is the only source written in this manner to explain the incredible matrix of New Jersey gun laws. It will help you tremendously. One important thing. When you get the book, don’t loan it, because I keep hearing about people never getting it back. So, keep your copy. If you want to get another one for your friend, buy one. Don’t give up yours. You’ll be sorry if you do. And when you get your book, scan the QR code on the front, and make sure you get the subscription for free. It’s private to my database there, where I can send you out all the updates of laws as they pass or change. You will immediately have access to the archives, and Page – 6 – of 10 you can download instantly the 2025 Comprehensive Update, which has a standalone chapter on “sensitive places”. So, you will know where you can and can’t carry. Go to EvanNappen.com, EvanNappen.com. You’ll see the big orange book. Click it and order your copy today. So, Teddy, tell us, what do you have in Press Checks? Teddy Nappen 24:35 Well, as you know, Press Checks are always free, and this is something that’s kind of been. It’s just been bugging the crap out of me. Every time you go into the doctors, what is the one question they always ask? Do you possess firearms? And I know you addressed this before, and it was actually in that. The origin was with Josh Sugarman. He was, you know, the closet hoplosexual, who created and pushed for that, too. Evan Nappen 25:07 That’s correct. I was there when he actually had the nerve to come to the Gun Rights Policy Conference. He was spotted there, and he was given the ultimatum. You can leave now, or you can talk to the group. And he chose, to his credit, to speak to all these pro-gunners. And he didn’t hold back. He laid it out, and this was at the time of Hillary Clinton. He laid out how he was going to make guns a national health issue, to ride along the coattails of national healthcare. And they got the doctors on their side. They first got the pediatricians on their side. They were the first group to go along with the anti-gun, gun rights oppression movement. Since then, they’ve moved through doctors. They’ve got it now to where doctors, as you point out, Teddy, ask you whether you have guns. It’s not a medical issue. It’s none of their freaking business whether you have a gun or not. And this is, of course, data based and something that creates a problem. And just think, New Jersey asks on the gun application about medical conditions. Well, now we got doctors asking about your guns. Don’t you see the link, folks? I think you do. Teddy Nappen 26:24 And when I was going through this kind of research, I was very curious. Was there any like legal mandate, or was this something they just do for the heck of it? I got this one from the PoliticalInsider.com, and it’s by Kathleen Anderson. “Why Do Doctors Ask About Guns? We Explain” (https://thepoliticalinsider.com/doctors-ask-about-guns/) And, of course, it tries to play the midland route where they point out that, unfortunately, yes, they have gotten to the physicians. And this is their mindset. This one guy Emmy Betts an EMT says it’s the same way we encourage people to wear a seat belt and not drive intoxicated. That’s their mindset. They’re asking because they treat it like, oh, owning a gun is a disease, or, you know, you’ve got to wear your safety belt. You shouldn’t own guns. You got to wear your safety belt. Evan Nappen 27:15 You know, the last time I went to the doctor. In the survey they make you do, it didn’t ask, does your car have a safety belt in it? Do you drive intoxicated? You know, they don’t ask that actually. You know. That may be where they’re coming from, arguably, in trying to rationalize their gun rights oppression. But I didn’t see those questions. Page – 7 – of 10 Teddy Nappen 27:38 And I will give the article credit as well because it gives you a clear insight as to what they think. You have a Dr. Mark Rosenberg of the CDC, who says we need to revolutionize the way we look at guns. We did it with cigarettes. We used to be that smoking was a glamor symbol, cool, sexy, macho. Now it is dirty, deadly and banned. So, they’re trying to equate it now to cigarettes. Evan Nappen 28:11 Well, arguably, their position is that cigarettes cause cancer, and if we accept that, then cancer is actually a disease. And last I heard, doctors may have an interest in diseases, but guns are not a disease. As much as the gun rights oppressors may want to call it that, it’s not. It’s a right. In fact, it’s something that helps us protect ourselves, and it is something that is a natural fundamental right, a God given right that we not only exercise to defend ourselves. It also is something our Founding Fathers recognized as being incredibly important to the preservation of liberty and that’s why it’s the Second Amendment. Only before that is religious freedom and freedom of speech, because without God and without freedom of speech to be able to tell us our rights, you’re not even going to know your rights. So, they put the Second Amendment way up there for a reason. It’s not a disease, and doctors need to lay off the politics of gun rights oppression. Teddy Nappen 29:39 Actually, it’s pretty funny that you mentioned free speech because there was a very clearly anti-gun article from the Health.HowStuffWorks.com by Patrick Kiger. (https://health.howstuffworks.com/medicine/healthcare/us-doctors-cant-ask-patients-gun- ownership.htm) He brought up, and I didn’t even realize this. Florida actually tried to ban and restrict doctors from asking if patients had firearms. Evan Nappen 30:01 Yes! Teddy Nappen 30:01 It was the “docs versus Glocks” case, and I was shocked. The appeals court struck it down because it said it violated the doctor’s free speech. Um . . . Evan Nappen 30:01 Well, there you go. It violates their free speech so that they can inform on you to the Government. Well, there you go. And, you know, if you think that you actually have privacy with your medical records, that’s a joke. I can’t tell you how many cases where we’re fighting for gun permits that medical confidentiality gets routinely penetrated. It’s asked about on the firearm application. Please don’t think you actually have that privacy, because when it comes to guns, that’s a joke. It’s a joke. Evan Nappen 30:48 Hey, so we have today’s GOFU. The moment you’ve all been waiting for. The Gun Owner Fuck Up of the week. This comes as a letter, an Ask Evan letter, but it really highlights a GOFU. And not that this person committed a GOFU, but he does highlight it. And this is from Chris, regarding automobile graphics, stickers, and license plates. My comment/question is on automobile graphics and even Page – 8 – of 10 license plates. Could the following be a Gun Owner F Up, or even just a general F Up? I think you referenced the topic in the previous show, which got me thinking. Number one, I saw a human stick figure graphic on the back window of an SUV. Often one sees these stick figures portraying a family or a group of people with humorous comments or actions. This particular graphic showed stick figures being mowed down by an automobile, stick figures and legs flying in the air, etc. Then he saw a bumper sticker that said, Keep honking. I’m reloading. And three, a vanity plate with the abbreviated word double tap. I believe this references a defensive shooting strategy where one shoots twice in rapid succession. If these people were ever in a self-defense situation, gun owner, otherwise, would the slogans or graphics be a problem in court? Further, if the owner of the vehicle makes a mistake, negligent or otherwise, and causes bodily harm to someone. Evan Nappen 32:14 So, let me tell you. This raises a very valid point. I am totally in favor of free speech. I get the humor of these things. I totally do. But the problem is, if you get into a licensing battle on your character or if you end up in a situation where you defended yourself, there’s nothing better the State likes to point out to a jury, if they can get away with it, is that you’re somehow a nut, or that you are out looking for trouble, or that you are eager to cause death and mayhem. And so this can, in fact, be a problem. I recommend against it. Plus it may also lead to unnecessary inquiries. If you’re stopped for motor vehicle violations, minor violations, it may then lead to, are there any guns in the car? And why are they asking that? Well, I saw your sign that says, Stop honking. I’m reloading. So, there you go. Or, you know, as much as I like to have our symbols of what we love, like the NRA, the Association and other great gun groups on our car, when you do that, you open yourself up to trouble. Evan Nappen 33:22 There’s been the same, not just in guns. People have, you know, a deadhead sticker on their car, and then next thing you know, they’re focused on for things that may be associated with that group. All kinds of it. You have to think with one very important word, especially when it comes to New Jersey, and that word is be discrete. The word is discrete or discretion. You need to be discreet. And if you do these things, you’re opening yourself up. That’s another reason that I do not recommend having certain firearms with names on them that portray something problem. Because I guarantee you this, if your self- defense handgun is a Death Slayer 2000, I guarantee that the entire trial, your self-defense trial, the prosecutor is not going to call it your self-defense handgun, but rather your Death Slayer 2000. This is what will happen, and you don’t want to give that opportunity as well. So, this is why, when there’s shotguns out there called the Persuader, there’s different things, you know, Vigilante and other stuff. And you know, these things may be cool, and I get it. They’re fun, but it can be detrimental. It can be used against you. Evan Nappen 34:51 Remember, when we’re dealing with jury trials, we’re dealing with 12 people who aren’t smart enough to avoid jury duty, right? I mean, think about what’s their exposure to guns? They don’t understand our culture and our humor, and they’ll use it against you. Same with these judges. Many of these judges don’t understand anything about guns, and so, it is absolutely a problem and a GOFU. I would highly, highly suggest being very discreet as to those issues. Page – 9 – of 10 Teddy Nappen 35:21 What you could do is instead show them reason. Evan Nappen 35:25 Well, that is something. But, you know, if you always use reason and always let the folks listen to reason. That’s important. Because reason is nonviolent, okay? But short of that, please be careful, be discreet. Think tactically. This is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens. Speaker 2 35:56 Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state. Page – 10 – of 10 Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S3 E247_Transcript About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets. Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News. As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists. He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America. 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  Episode 246- Your Tax $ Fund NJ Propaganda Mill Also Available OnSearchable Podcast Transcript Gun Lawyer — Episode 246 Transcript SUMMARY KEYWORDS New Jersey anti-gun rights, Soros center, gun violence research, taxpayer funding, gun rights suppression, Biden administration, gun laws, flare guns, carry killer law, gun safes, gun boxes, gun control, Second Amendment, gun rights organizations, gun legislation. SPEAKERS Teddy Nappen, Speaker 2, Evan Nappen Evan Nappen 00:15 I’m Evan Nappen. Teddy Nappen 00:16 And I’m Teddy Nappen. Evan Nappen 00:18 And welcome to Gun Lawyer. So, New Jersey has funded their anti-gun rights propaganda center, what I call the acronym of SOROS, which is the State Office of Rights Oppression and Suppression. And what this office does is exactly that. It is funded by you, the taxpayer, and it was part of the $58.8 billion spending package that the New Jersey legislature enacted, which includes $3 million of your taxpayer dollars to fund the so-called, what the oppressionists call, the New Jersey Gun Violence Research Center. This is the propaganda arm, and it is the center that is dedicated to taking away and limiting in any way they can come up with the rights, the Constitutional rights, concerning the keep and bear arms amendment that we so cherish. Evan Nappen 01:40 So, the budget including the $3 million was signed into law by (Governor) Murphy on June 30th. Now there was a whole hoopla, because originally they were actually going to cut a million dollars from this, but the legislators themselves went and said, oh no, no, we can’t do that. We can’t do that. We still have to spend the full $3 million taxpayer dollars on the SOROS center. So, The Trace, believe it or not, The Trace is essentially an anti-gun rights national organization, think tank. They are the folks that are the opposite, if you will, of the gun rights organizations that fight vigorously to defend our rights. We make sure that we read and do what’s called “opposition research”. And it was The Trace that actually brought this out, of course, in a very positive way. The Trace was pleased as punch that New Jersey has done it. In an article from TheTrace.org, it says, as a matter of fact, the article, you can read it yourself, is “Major Gun Violence Research Hub Escapes Crippling Funding Cuts”. (https://www.thetrace.org/2025/07/new-jersey-gun-violence-research-funding/) Page – 1 – of 10 Evan Nappen 03:06 Yes, that’s right. New Jersey has done just that. In a statement to The Trace on July 1, 2025, it says, a spokesperson for Murphy said the governor was pleased to continue funding the center. “From day one, our Administration has remained steadfast in our efforts to create a stronger, fairer, and safer New Jersey . . .” At the expense, of course, of what? Our rights. So, that’s what they do. It doesn’t accomplish their goals at all in terms of what the governor stated, but it sure does fund the anti-rights suppression movement. The spokesman further said to The Trace, “Through the several policies, laws, and initiatives implemented over the past seven and a half years, we have recognized historic lows in gun violence across the state.” Evan Nappen 04:04 Yeah, like that has anything to do with The Trace or gun laws. Of course, it has nothing to do with it. As a matter of fact, gun crime itself and those statistics deal exclusively with what does and doesn’t get reported. And as they say, statistics are like prisoners of war. They can be tortured to say anything you want. Furthermore, the article states “New Jersey remains a model for how other states can take meaningful action to reduce gun violence, said New Jersey Assemblyman Craig Coughlin, a Democrat. This funding reflects our ongoing commitment to public safety and saving lives.” Yeah, ongoing commitment to funding the suppression of our gun rights and to have a propaganda mill able to do that very thing at the expense of you, the taxpayer, the law-abiding gun owner, who pays taxes to New Jersey. That’s where your money’s going, folks. That’s the state that we live in. Evan Nappen 05:14 So, this is also important nationally. As I’m sure you should be aware, President Trump has cut funding for all kinds of anti-gun rights suppression activity, including to various agencies that would also go and attempt to fund other Soros-type agencies, you know, where they are going at our rights. And the idea here, with New Jersey being this state funder, is to try to convince other states, of course, to do their own state office of rights oppression and suppression. So, New Jersey is leading the way in the propaganda research area of trying to use these things. They then take these studies and use them to further the agenda legislatively and also in terms of litigation. This is the function of these groups, and what makes it particularly disgusting is that it is using taxpayer dollars to accomplish it. What do you think about that, Teddy? Teddy Nappen 06:38 Oh, quite frankly, this goes back to the Biden administration with the Gun Violence Prevention Office. They had, if I recall, appointed two members, one of which was out of Giffords, and one of the other Bloomberg-backed groups who was there, appointed into the administration to help deliver the funding to the states, creating their various safe offices. So, be on the lookout. This is not going to just be in New Jersey. There are many states that have safe offices and are looking to add more, because this is how they’ve taken very much the Soros strategy. Start locally and let it grow, and they start harping down on our rights, state by state. It’s cancer that they used to spread. Page – 2 – of 10 Evan Nappen 07:30 And that’s an excellent point. This is their work around because Trump killed the funding to the Biden propaganda office. So, the idea now is go to the states to get the funding to continue their propaganda efforts attacking our rights. This is the new game, and folks need to be aware of this very thing. Evan Nappen 07:55 Hey, I’d like to also mention that New York Democrats are now targeting flare guns. That’s right, flare guns, folks. They have to find anything that shoots and criminalize it. And in New York, apparently, there was some episode where some juveniles misused a flare gun. So, of course, the answer whenever there’s a single, isolated problem, is to make sure that everybody suffers. This is the legislative philosophy I call of lowest common denominator. You take the lowest problematic thing. Then you make that a modus to suppress rights, and this is what they’re doing in New York. They’re now putting a bill forward to make it unlawful to have sale and distribution of the flare gun to anyone under 21, even though you might want to be out boating younger than that. Well, that’s just too bad. No flare guns for you. You can just die at sea without having any flares to save your life. Then they also have a second bill that they want to add flare gun to the list of weapons in which you can be charged with “criminal possession of a weapon” for anyone who possesses or uses them, “with the intent to harm someone”. Which is always very speculative, isn’t it? So, that these laws can be readily abused on citizens. This is really a non-issue. But of course, anytime they can ban anything that shoots, they want to do it. I grabbed this from the news site called Bearing Arms, and the article is by Cam Edwards. And it’s “New York Dems Now Targeting Flare Guns”. (https://bearingarms.com/camedwards/2025/07/10/new-york-dems-now-targeting-flare-guns-n1229214) Now, interestingly. Teddy Nappen 10:05 I’m kind of curious, though. Isn’t there, in its if they’re calling there like, an insert that you can put into a flare gun to shoot .22s? Evan Nappen 10:12 Well, that’s not even an issue here. Because if you do that and make it an actual firearm, but interesting, you know, that is something that does possibly exist. But it isn’t even something they’re mentioning here. New Jersey, by the way, yes, those inserts do exist. New Jersey, by the way, does not, surprisingly, brace yourself, does not yet prohibit flare guns. As a matter of fact, flare guns themselves are defined in New Jersey as a visual distress signal, and it is legal to possess flare guns under Jersey law, under certain exemptions. You can look specifically to N.J.S. 2C:39-6.f.(4), where it says a person may keep and carry a United States Coast Guard approved visual distress signaling device about a private commercial aircraft or boat and transport them to and from such vessel for purpose of installation and repair. Evan Nappen 11:18 And it further says that the U.S. Coast Guard approved visual distress signaling device, this is under N.J.S. 2C: 58-3(l.), are exempt for the sale and purchase from requiring a handgun purchase permit or a New Jersey Firearms Purchaser ID Card. So, you can buy these without a permit, and you can have them. They need to be Coast Guard, United States Coast Guard, approved, of course, but you can go Page – 3 – of 10 to the marine store in Jersey and acquire said flare guns. I’ve always wondered. You know, there’s lots, I guess, mayhem could always be done with anything, including a flare gun. I just hope nobody ever fires a flare gun into a fireworks store or something. That would be terrible or near a gas station. I mean, those are the kind of things that I guess one could worry about, but banning them isn’t going to stop criminals. You know, criminals aren’t going to care, and this is just another restriction on our rights. But currently in New Jersey, that is the law on flare guns. Evan Nappen 12:33 Hey, let me tell you about our good friends at WeShoot. WeShoot is a range in Lakewood. It is an indoor range, where Teddy and I shoot and where we got our certifications for our carry. It is just a great range, really state of the art. And they have a fantastic pro shop there, and great trainers, too. Really wonderful people. They treat everybody so well, and WeShoot runs great sales. As a matter of fact, they’re offering a Smith & Wesson M&P9 2.0 in metal, right, a steel version, a metal version of the Smith & Wesson MP9. Then, although it has an aluminum frame, right, of course, the slide would be steel. They’re also offering the Samurai Burnt Bronze Line, which is a sleek and battle-ready AR with a very cool finish on it. You should check that out. And if you want to upgrade your carry gun, they have a Custom P365X Upper, built by WeShoot’ s own in-house gunsmith team. It has a precision barrel, a custom slide and pure performance in every shot. Evan Nappen 13:52 And then making her return at WeShoot as one of the famous WeShoot girls is Krystina Fernicola. Krystina is a WeShoot girl, model and a fierce defender of American values. You want to check out Krystina. I guarantee you want to do that. You want to go to we Shoot’s website at weshootusa.com, weshootusa.com. You’ll be able to see all about WeShoot. Go there and use the range. It’s a wonderful resource. It’s conveniently right off the Parkway and right in Lakewood. A great resource for Central Jersey, and it’s a wonderful day at we shoot. weshootusa.com. Evan Nappen 14:44 Let me also mention our good friends at the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. (ANJRPC.org)The Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs is an umbrella organization of gun clubs throughout New Jersey, and they have individual members, too. They are the stalwart defender of our gun rights in New Jersey, and they’re the ones currently litigating in Federal court. We recently had some action on our appeals in the federal court, which New Jersey is challenging. The assault firearm ban, the mag ban, and the Carry Killer bill. We should see some more opinions coming out of that as we work our way, most likely, to the U.S. Supreme Court defending New Jersey gun rights. Evan Nappen 15:28 Also, when you’re a member, you’ll get the email update so you’ll know all the sneaky stuff going on in Trenton. All the gun rights oppression and suppression that Trenton is always trying to do to us. And as you know, the recent victory by the Association in delaying that God-awful package of gun bills that Murphy and the Democrats were trying to shove down our throats that we’ve talked about on the show, that’s been delayed, and they’ve recessed for the summer. So, for the moment, that has been averted from further harming law-abiding New Jersey gun owners. Make sure you belong to the Association of Page – 4 – of 10 New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs at ANJRPC.org. anjrpc.org. Be part of the solution. Make sure you’re a member. Evan Nappen 16:21 Let me also mention my book, New Jersey Gun Law, the Bible of New Jersey gun law. That is where, my friends, you will learn to protect yourself and not become a GOFU and not end up a victim of New Jersey gun laws. I’ve written it to be very user friendly. I’ve written it in a manner of question and answer on 120 topics so that even you could understand New Jersey gun laws. Go to EvanNappen.com. EvanNappen.com. You’ll see the big orange book. Click it and order your copy today. When you get the book, scan the QR code on the front and make sure you subscribe, for free, to my private database. So, if any of these new laws pass that affect you, you’ll be sent a notice about the new laws. The book stays current. You’ll also have access to the archives. And make sure you download the 2025 Comprehensive Update, which includes a standalone chapter on “sensitive places”. Teddy, tell us about what you have in Press Checks today. Teddy Nappen 17:34 I want to kind of take a moment just to embrace the power that has come from the fact that the big, beautiful bill, with the removal of the NFA (National Firearms Act) tax. It has finally hit the head of the gun rights oppressors reeling like, oh my God, we are losing this battle. And you can always tell. The way to get your finger on the pulse of what they’re thinking and the realization that they are losing this fight to take away our rights, as always, for us, we look to The Trace. You can get a clear thought process of how they’re thinking and how they’re processing it. And finally, it’s coming together that the hammer Bruen to them is like coming to the realization that it is going to knock out the all the gun laws that they have been pushing for. As we can see here from The Trace, they pushed out this insane article by Chip Brownlee, called “Muskets v. AR-15: Judges Are Throwing Out Gun Restrictions Because Of Antiquated Gun Laws From America’s Founding”. (https://www.thetrace.org/2025/06/gun- laws-history-supreme-court-bruen/) Evan Nappen 18:51 Oh, you mean, what the Second Amendment was actually about? Teddy Nappen 18:53 Correct. Evan Nappen 18:55 I see, I see. Right. Of course, muskets were the AR-15 of the day. I mean. Teddy Nappen 19:01 Yes, and the reason they are freaking out is that recently, there was a case, going from the article by Chip Brownlee, in Mississippi, where the U.S. District Judge delivered a ruling that was unthinkable. He found that a decade old federal ban on machine guns was unconstitutional. Page – 5 – of 10 Evan Nappen 19:30 Ooooh yeah. And, you know, the machine gun challenge is also tied into the NFA challenge that we’re seeing, and with the removal of taxes from so many of those items. So, what’s great is the pro-gun rights forces are finally taking on machine guns. It’s only been since 1934. But, of course, we needed the trifecta of Heller, McDonald and Bruen, and we are definitely living in exciting times. Teddy Nappen 20:02 What was very hilarious, though, about this case is the gun that the guy had, he had an AR-15. Evan Nappen 20:09 Was it full auto? The AR-15? Teddy Nappen 20:13 Full auto, full auto. But here’s the funny thing. It had a happy switch. Here’s the gun. It was called the NFA Whore. The Whore-16. He actually. Evan Nappen 20:13 Oh, a Whore-16. It better be 16, at least, right? Teddy Nappen 20:28 And the happy switch, here’s the three modes. Evan Nappen 20:32 What are the three modes? Whoa, whoa. Let’s make it clear? What are the three modes of the Whore- 16? Go ahead. Teddy Nappen 20:40 Yeah. For safe, it’s Mary. For semi-automatic, it’s slut. And for fully automatic, it’s Whore. Evan Nappen 20:51 Wow, and it’s literally the happy switch. Teddy Nappen 20:55 Yeah, exactly. And he also had a bunch of the 20. Evan Nappen 20:59 You know, I think the Whore-16 would probably sell pretty well. Teddy Nappen 21:03 Yep, but this just, aside from the other insanity that the rifle that was brought out. Reading this article. Evan Nappen 21:12 Well, wouldn’t it be funny if the Whore-16 is the one that actually kills the machine gun ban, once and for all? Page – 6 – of 10 Teddy Nappen 21:19 I know. That would be. The Whore-16. Evan Nappen 21:21 Yeah, hey. Evan Nappen 21:22 Well, it takes time, but it’s effect is definitely working. Teddy Nappen 21:22 But, reading this article, you see, like they’re learning. They actually have processed it. Like, wait a second, this Bruen thing is actually pretty bad. I remember sitting in and listening to them talk about, like, the early CLEs are like, oh, this won’t have much effect on gun rights, on gun control laws. Really? Really. And now, finally, it’s coming to their realization. All it took was, what is it, three years since Bruen? Teddy Nappen 21:37 Yeah, but it was very funny. Judge Reeves made it clear that this decision had little to do with the weapons offensive branding or the intensifying public safety threat posed by automatic weapons. Evan Nappen 22:11 I would think that the left would like that branding. I mean, that’s, you know. I thought they’re, you know. It seems like it’s right up there with what they like. I don’t know. Teddy Nappen 22:21 But it leans heavily on the Bruen decision, which, in their words, upends the mandate, the mandate that modern gun law regulations align with historical firearm regulations. Suddenly, judges were less arbiters of modern safety and more reluctant, tasked with the findings of 18th, 19th century parallels. Evan Nappen 22:50 Well, there you go. Isn’t that cute? So, imagine that. They’re more concerned with actual rights than propaganda, where they put the name safety on any kind of ban they want to see stay in place. Okay? They just call things safety that have nothing to do with safety. Do you want to talk about a real safety law? You know, maybe we could really talk about real safety, but when you’re simply using that as a front for your lies. It’s not surprising that we can see truth now and then shine through. It’s actually refreshing, isn’t it? Teddy Nappen 23:33 Yeah, but what also boggles my mind. We have, I mean, it’s very well established that gun control is racist. All the arguments they have to make about the historical gun laws are racist, and they even point. Page – 7 – of 10 Evan Nappen 23:49 And modern gun laws are racist. We’ve shown exactly how New Jersey gun laws are quantifiably racist. Teddy Nappen 23:58 Correct, and they point that out in the article, fully knowing that their argument even right here. Undoubtedly, today’s disarmament of religious minorities would be understood as abhorrent, reprehensible, and a violation of the Equal Protection Clause — as it would be categorically disarmament of Blacks and Native Americans, another practice pervasive in our country’s historical tradition. But, considered solely for the limited purpose of a historical inquiry required by Bruen. So, put aside that we are arguing horrible racist laws to make our anti-gun argument work, and you know, realize. Evan Nappen 24:44 And, you know, the left embraces racism as long as it’s fitting their agenda, and not just with guns. You see the racist left all the time coming out, whether it’s argument here to somehow justify gun laws that themselves modern day have institutionalized racism in them, to other political positions where they’re blatantly racist against certain ethnic groups that they don’t like. We see that all day long. So, the funny thing is, they try to portray the right as racist, but it is truly the left that is. And they are shameless, shameless, when it comes to their embracing of racism when it suits their purposes. Well, Teddy, thank you for pointing that out. I’m sure we’re all very excited about the Whore-16 making head way in the laws. And it is great to see the Whore-16 knocking out laws in the penal code. Evan Nappen 26:02 Okay, I have a letter here. This is a letter to Ask Evan. This is from Greg, who wants to know if the Recover G7A holster is a legal holster for New Jersey. Now, when you say legal, we’re talking about legal to use with your carry gun, not legal to possess. You can possess them. There are no holster prohibitions in terms of just possessing a holster. But, if you want to use certain holsters when you carry your handgun, Greg is asking about carrying concealed with this specific holster. We have to go to the Murphy Carry Killer law that defines holster. You’ll find that definition in New Jersey’s Carry killer law. If you want to read it for yourself, you’re welcome to do that. You simply go to N.J.S. 2C:58-4 and go to subsection h. And here’s what it says. For purposes of this section, “holster” means a device or sheath that securely retains a handgun, which, at a minimum, conceals and protects the main body of the firearm, maintains the firearm in consistent and accessible position and renders the trigger covered and inaccessible while the handgun is fully seated In the holster. Evan Nappen 27:40 If one looks at the Recover G7A, you will see that it does meet the first part because it is securely retains the gun. And it does meet the third part about keeping it in a consistent and accessible position. And it does meet the fourth part of it. The requirement where it renders the trigger covered and inaccessible. However, the second part that says conceals and protects the main body of the firearm. Unfortunately, the G7A is a minimalist-type holster, and it does not, in my opinion, adequately meet the requirement under subsection h. for concealing and protecting the main body, because there’s still a substantial portion of the receiver exposed and the entire slide, the bottom of the receiver, the receiver that protrudes forward, and the receiver that protrudes backwards. So, you’re going to be really, really, Page – 8 – of 10 really, having to make some tough arguments there when it comes to that holster. I cannot recommend that you carry using that holster under New Jersey’s current Carry Liller law. Evan Nappen 29:29 Hey, now is the moment you all been waiting for, which is this week’s GOFU. That’s the Gun Owner Fuck Up. The Gun Owner Fuck Ups are expensive mistakes that gun owners make under the gun laws that you get to learn for free so you don’t make them. And let me tell you about this week’s GOFU. It concerns something that came from actual cases. And it is a tip, some tips, so that you don’t end up having this problem. And here’s what it is. Most of us keep our firearms secured in gun safes. Gun safes are a great modern invention. They allow for you to store your firearms that you’re not using safely and securely. To store them from theft and unauthorized access. Gun safe serve a great, legitimate purpose. Evan Nappen 30:25 However, a gun safe is often readily identifiable as a gun safe. And if you have a gun safe in your garage, in your basement, or in a bedroom, and you have it proudly displayed, and many of them are quite beautiful. They really do beautiful work to the front of many of the, particularly the higher end, gun safes. They look like, you know, just gorgeous in their colors and finish, and often the decals and the workmanship. And I understand that. But I have to say that I would highly recommend that you hang, what works very well is you hang a blanket that will drape over the front of your gun safe. You can go to like Harbor Freight, and they sell these very powerful round magnets. They’re like, I don’t know, maybe three inches or so in diameter. Get three of those, three or four of those magnets, and you can secure the blanket to the top of your gun safe. It just hangs that blanket or other covering down in front of your gun safe. Evan Nappen 31:36 So, if anybody happens to be in your house and they look around, you know, a workman, or, most importantly, police that happen to come in your house for something unrelated, for whatever that might reason might be, or medical, EMTs, or government for any reason, comes in your house and they just take a quick glance around, what they’re going to see is the blanket. They will not see what is behind it and not readily identify it as a gun safe. We’ve had cases where things have been observed like that so that individuals know what somebody has in their house. And then I believe they get targeted for confiscation if the opportunity ever knocks to take the guns, because it’s known that there is a gun safe there. So, there would be a pile of guns. Evan Nappen 32:36 The other thing I would highly advise as a related GOFU is not to have your empty gun boxes lying around or stacked in a way which individuals can readily see that you have gun boxes. Many of us take our guns, hopefully most of us take our guns out of the boxes, and do not store our guns in the safe in the boxes, because of room considerations and considerations of storage, for humidity and protection and also the ability to look at our guns when we want to look at them. So, if you have a pile of empty gun boxes, put your gun boxes in a plastic container. You can go to Home Depot, and they have those black containers with the yellow lids. I’m sure you’ve seen them, or whatever works for you. But don’t leave your gun boxes in the open for anyone that happens to be in your house to see them. It’s also Page – 9 – of 10 good to help avoid theft by either criminals or law enforcement. You don’t want to have yourself out there. You want to keep your firearm possession private and as low key as you can. So, don’t leave gun boxes lying around, stacked and loaded and packed up so folks can see them. You know, stacked up so folks can see that you have lots of gun boxes. That would mean you have lots of guns. And try to have a covering over your gun safe. Evan Nappen 34:18 This is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens. Speaker 2 34:32 Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state. Page – 10 – of 10 Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S3 E246_Transcript About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets. Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News. As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists. He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America. Email Evan Your Comments and Questions  [email protected] Join Evan’s InnerCircleHere’s your chance to join an elite group of the Savviest gun and knife owners in America.  Membership is totally FREE and Strictly CONFIDENTIAL.  Just enter your email to start receiving insider news, tips, and other valuable membership benefits.   Email (required) *First Name *Select list(s) to subscribe toInnerCircle Membership Yes, I would like to receive emails from Gun Lawyer Podcast. (You can unsubscribe anytime)Constant Contact Use. Please leave this field blank.var ajaxurl = "https://gun.lawyer/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php";

  Episode 245- Important Gun Law Updates Also Available OnSearchable Podcast Transcript Gun Lawyer — Episode 245 Transcript SUMMARY KEYWORDS New Jersey gun laws, gun rights, legislative battle, gun bills, summer recess, gun possession penalties, National Firearms Act, Hearing Protection Act, suppressors, short barrel rifles, constitutionality challenge, gun permit denials, institutionalized racism, gun rights suppression, Second Amendment. SPEAKERS Speaker 2, Evan Nappen, Teddy Nappen Evan Nappen 00:15 I’m Evan Nappen. Teddy Nappen 00:17 And I’m Teddy Nappen. Evan Nappen 00:19 and welcome to Gun Lawyer. So, I have some important updates to let our beloved listeners know about, both state and federal. As you know, we’ve been deep in the fight in New Jersey over the absurd next batch of gun rights oppression being pushed by Murphy and the Democrats, and we’ve reviewed on the show just how serious and awful these bills are. Well, I actually have some good news to report, at least good news for now, and that is that those gun bills have been stalled as the New Jersey legislature has entered summer recess. So, folks, your important work of contacting legislators, of belonging to the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs, and responding to the emails. By clicking the buttons and letting the legislators know and making the phone calls, the pressure has been effective. We are stalling this. Evan Nappen 01:27 Now, of course, it doesn’t kill it. They’ll be back after the recess, and the fight continues because our liberty requires eternal vigilance, as has often been stated. And it’s true, but we can take a moment to be thankful that our efforts have, at the moment, paid off in delaying these atrocities from being placed into law, and that includes the Gulag bills. It also includes the raising of gun possession penalties to the equivalent of murder charges. It includes making a gun accident a felony, a universal felony, virtual and then subjecting you to the Gulag on top of that, etc. The whole package of horrible oppression has been stalled. So, keep up the good work and stay tuned for more updates on the New Jersey battlefront as the fight continues. Teddy Nappen 02:34 One might. Page – 1 – of 16 Evan Nappen 02:35 Let me give you. Teddy Nappen 02:36 One might recommend we should endeavor to persevere. Evan Nappen 02:39 Yeah, yeah, endeavor to persevere, as stated on the famous or in the famous Clint Eastwood movie. But our perseverance is critical to the protection of our rights. I don’t know if at some point we’ll have to take the next steps that the Native Americans took in that movie. But anyway, until then, the fight is on. So, this is what we have to do at the moment. We’re doing good work, and it’s paying off. Make sure that you’re a member of the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. That’s ANJRPC.org. They are the state gun rights group, our umbrella organization of gun clubs throughout New Jersey. And as an individual member, you’ll be sent the email alerts as to the shenanigans taking place in Trenton, and you’ll be provided with action that you can very easily take to make a difference. You can fight. You’re not powerless. Join the Association. There’s power in numbers, and you can make a big difference. Please make sure you belong to ANJRPC. You’ll be glad you did, and you’ll know that you’re part of the solution and the great gun rights defender group of New Jersey. Evan Nappen 04:11 Now let’s switch to federal law. So, you may have been following the big, beautiful bill, and we’ve talked about how there was efforts to relieve us of the oppression, since 1934, under the National Firearms Act (NFA). The bill, if you follow the big, beautiful bill, started in the House in which there was the HPA, the Hearing Protection Act, was put forward because the NFA is a tax law. The National Firearms Act is based in the power of taxation. The original house bill removed the $200 tax, but we wanted it to go further. In the Senate, the Senate bill not only removed the tax and attacked the NFA on silencers, but also included SBRs, short barrel rifles, SBSs, short barrel shotguns and AOW, any other weapons. Not only eliminating the taxes, but also eliminating and repealing those laws themselves. Evan Nappen 05:32 The Senate version, though passed, was then subject to what is called the “Byrd Bath”. The “Byrd Bath” is where a single unelected bureaucrat known as the Parliamentarian, who has been in that position for over a decade and is a Democrat, big shock, removed from the Senate bill the NFA provisions on the SHORT (Stop Harassing Owners of Rifles Today) Act, which is the SBRs, SBSs, and AOW law and the suppressor laws. The Parliamentarian removed it, saying that it exceeded dealing with taxation, which is a crock of garbage. But, nonetheless, the Senate went back and got an amendment through before they passed their final version that at least removed all the taxes, the $200 taxes and other taxes. All taxes have been reduced to zero for suppressors and SBRs and SBSs and AOWs. Even though the registration paperwork component of the NFA was not repealed, the taxes themselves were eliminated. This is the first time that the National Firearms Act has taken a hit or has been subject to any reform that helps restore gun rights. It’s the removal of a tax on our Second Amendment rights. It is progress. Page – 2 – of 16 Evan Nappen 07:13 Now, look, I wanted the whole thing to go. I’m sure you did, too, but I’m glad to see progress. We lost our rights incrementally. We are going to regain them incrementally. Every step forward is a step forward, and there’s more to it than that. I just received a notice that the Firearm Policy Coalition and the NRA and I believe GOA, as well. But the gun groups, the American Suppressor Association, all right, they’ve joined in attacking, challenging the constitutionality of the NFA. (FirearmsPolicy.org) And according to the FPC, which does great work nationally in bringing court challenges, as well, those other fine organizations do in this. (https://www.firearmspolicy.org/fpc-coalition-of-pro-2a-orgs-to-file- nfa-lawsuit) It notes that quote and I’m going to read from the FPC release, when President Trump signs the one big, beautiful bill which he should have signed by the time you hear this podcast, because it has passed the Senate, and we’re very pleased about that, which will eliminate the excise tax on short barrel rifles, short barrel shotguns and AOWs, he will have delivered the biggest blow to the National Firearm Act since its passage nearly a century ago. We thank President Trump for his leadership and every member of Congress who fought for law-abiding gunowners throughout the reconciliation process. And I second those thanks. Evan Nappen 08:56 It goes on further to say, by eliminating the excise tax on these NFA items, the one big, beautiful bill will not only lift the heavy burden of an unconstitutional tax on the backs of hardworking Americans, it will serve as a critical step forward toward our ultimate goal of dismantling the NFA once and for all. But there’s much work yet to be done, and while we continue to fight for the total legislative elimination of the NFA, our organizations are proud to stand together in a quote. I’m quoting. I’m putting the quotes. They didn’t have the quotes, but I’m putting the quotes. “. . . new strategic lawsuit to challenge the constitutionality of the NFA in Federal Court.” Evan Nappen 09:42 So, how do I interpret that? I interpret that, and I haven’t read the lawsuit. I’m just speculating. But I think with good basis that, because there’s an elimination of the tax, how can the paperwork requirement still be valid when there is no more tax? Because, keep in mind, case law has upheld the NFA as being a lawful exercise of the Federal Government’s power of taxation. The NFA is not based on the power of interstate commerce. The 1968 Gun Control Act utilizes interstate commerce power as its basis for that federal law, but the National Firearms Act was enacted based on taxation. It’s the reason why ATF was in the Treasury Department, because it was a tax bill. The Federal Government’s power to enact it was upheld by the court because it was a tax, and now the tax is eliminated. So, the question is, how is that now a proper exercise of government power of taxation when there is no tax? This is a fascinating issue, and I’m sure they’ll raise the straight Second Amendment issues as well, but this also has a constitutional dimension based on Federal Government power to enact laws. Evan Nappen 11:11 Remember, the Federal Government is limited. Believe it or not. You may be shocked to know that, but it is limited. It has to pass its laws based on federal powers that the Constitution grants it. Those powers are limited to, essentially, military power, taxation power, interstate commerce power, which is quite broad, but not what the NFA is based on, and let’s say, grant and aid with funding and all that jazz. where they take away money and give money and all that. So, those are essentially the powers that we Page – 3 – of 16 see, and those are the things that have been exercised by the Government. For example, in building the Tennessee Valley Authority, the TVA, during and after the depression, it was based on the military power, believe it or not. That’s how the Government rationalized and legitimized their exercise of power to do the Tennessee Valley Authority, because it was necessary to have power so that we could fight the wars and battles and keep our military strong. Evan Nappen 12:20 So, it has to fall under a federal power. Why? How do we have the interstate roads that we all enjoy driving on? What was the Federal Government’s power to build interstate roads? I’ll tell you, military power. Because under Eisenhower, we needed the interstates so that we could quickly move our vehicles from one place, our military equipment and vehicles, from one place in America to another. What was the basis for the NFA? The power of taxation, and those taxes have now been eliminated. This is exciting to see what we may see come about from these challenges. Teddy Nappen 13:06 I’d be kind of curious. Has there have been, what would be like, has there been a time where they’ve where the tax was ever removed on something, but still had the regulation? Where they could argue, well, it’s not being paid. So, what is the point of the regulation? Has it been? Evan Nappen 13:21 You know, I’m not aware of any, because I haven’t researched the tax case element that you raised. But we’ve seen in other aspects of enforcement of laws and laws proceeding if there, for example, is no funding appropriated by Congress. Now, granted that’s funding, not taxation. But if there’s no funding, then the law is considered dead. For example, the Relief from Disabilities that we’ve discussed. What happened with Schumer’s gun rights suppression bill there, where he stopped folks from getting their rights restored for over 30 years? He defunded and said no money can be spent. And the Supreme Court said, well, if no money can be spent, even though the law is on the books, it doesn’t matter. You can’t seek its relief. Well, if that kind of logic applies, at least the argument of that logic there, how can a law be enforced where the money is no longer required, especially when it’s based on a power of taxation? But, Teddy, I don’t know, because I haven’t researched that. But I bet these cases, this lawsuit, is going to have a full explanation of those very questions, and hopefully we’ll see examples. Let me also. Teddy Nappen 14:42 I will say just for spit balling. I know, there are things that are exempt from taxation. Like, I remember in what was it? I think it was like the Sopranos, where it was the Indian reservations. They had exemptions from taxes. So, one of those would be ways of pointing to, like, is that required of regulation? Evan Nappen 15:02 Well, this is going to be part of what I believe is their strategic approach here, with a new strategic approach. And I wouldn’t be surprised if that is, in fact, the new strategy. But I’m excited to see when it actually gets filed. Hey, let me point out, and this is from our good friend, John Petrolino, who does great writing. He has an article here, the “Bill Introduced in N.J. to Force Reporting on Permitting Bias.” Page – 4 – of 16 (https://bearingarms.com/john-petrolino/2025/07/01/bill-introduced-in-nj-to-force-reporting-on- permitting-bias-n1229123)John points out that this bill was introduced in New Jersey, and he’s been really doing great writing on this subject. He reported back in May of 2024, with respect to black applicants. This is right from his article. For permits to carry in the Garden State, black applicants are denied more than double white counterparts. Then he points out that a bias watchdog group, Rise Against Hate, expanded that reporting, and when the data was normalized, they found that blacks were denied at a rate of 10 times more than whites. Evan Nappen 16:15 So, this bill, A5964, has been introduced by Assemblywoman Dawn Fantasia and Assemblyman Robert Auth. The bill is to require the Attorney General to compile and publicly report certain statistics pertaining to permits to carry a handgun and firearm purchaser ID cards. That is great news. We need to call out the institutionalized racism that comes with gun rights suppression. But I would add one thing, and this, apparently, it is really a great idea behind this bill, but there’s something I would suggest adding to this bill. They’re going to be looking at denials of applications and that is absolutely something that needs to be looked at. But one of the other things critical to be looked at. Evan Nappen 17:02 In addition to denials are the outcomes in the courts. When appeals of denials are filed, every county has its so-called gun judge, where these gun license appeals are held in court, and there you see further institutionalized racism. And I can guarantee you a wide disparity of results in the various county courts. They need to compile the statistics, county by county, and judge by judge, naming names of the appeals and their results. Especially the appeals related to “public health, safety, and welfare”, which is, of course, the all inclusive miscellaneous weasel clause that is particularly used to push the institutionalized racism and unjustly and unfairly and arbitrarily deny and suppress Second Amendment rights. So, to those wonderful sponsors who have gone forward with this bill, and I thank them for that, please add in statistical compilation on the county courts and the results of appeals of carry license denials and firearm and pistol purchase permit denials. But, again, we proceed incrementally with regaining our rights, and I’m glad to see these incremental positive steps. Evan Nappen 18:30 I’d like to give a quick note about North Carolina. Unfortunately, the legislature there did the right thing and passed constitutional carry where they would have joined the majority of American States, over 70% of the land mass already, which is constitutional carry. But, of course, their Democrat Governor vetoed Constitutional carry. It’s always the Democrats stepping in and stopping further liberty. I hope North Carolinians what’s going on, and they put a Governor in there that respects Second Amendment rights and is looking to expand liberty instead of denying it. It seems like that will have a tough road in the large number of votes required to override the veto. It looks like their best bet is to get rid of the Democrat Governor. And that’s an update on North Carolina. Teddy Nappen 19:32 Trump won. I think Trump won North Carolina, too. So, are the guys already ruining his chances for re election? Page – 5 – of 16 Evan Nappen 19:41 I hear you, man. I hear you. Let me also mention our good friends at WeShoot. WeShoot is an indoor range at Lakewood, New Jersey. It’s the place where both Teddy and I shoot and where we got our certifications. It is a wonderful range. We love WeShoot. We love the people there, and we love to shoot there. I would highly recommend that you check out WeShoot. You can go to their website at weshootusa.com. WeShoot is not only a great range and have great staff and great training and offer you everything you need there, right there, conveniently off the Parkway right there in Lakewood. But they also have a great pro shop, a great gun shop, and they offer bargains and deals all the time. Evan Nappen 20:30 Let me just tell you some of the highlights of what WeShoot is offering now. They’re offering an M&P9 M 2.0 Metal. So, that’s the all-metal frame Smith &Wesson, and it is built like a tank. They also have the Kimber Mako R7 OI Tack Pack. It’s optics-included, built for carry, and ready right out of the box. Lightweight, compact and pure Kimber quality. And they have the SIG P365 Rose, designed in collaboration with Lena Miculek. This stunning carry piece blends beauty, precision and confidence. A true EDC gem for those who carry with purpose. Don’t forget at WeShoot, you can see Shannon Leo. She is back showing off the ultra-stylish PackN Heat Pistol Bags, where function meets fashion for the range or your everyday adventures. So, check out Shannon Leo and those PackN Heat pistol bags. They’re really cool, and I think you’ll like seeing them and her. They have great stuff going on at WeShoot. Make sure you check out weshootusa, and check out the great photos that they have. Professional top of the line at their website at weshootusa.com. Evan Nappen 21:55 Let me also mention my book, New Jersey Gun Law, the Bible of New Jersey gun law. You need to stay safe. You need to stay protected. You need to stay knowledgeable. Make sure you have a copy of my book. It’s 120 topics, all in a question-and-answer format, and it will help you navigate the very treacherous waters of New Jersey gun law. You can go to EvanNappen.com EvanNappen.com. You’ll see the big orange book there. Click on it. You’ll have it in a matter of days. And when you get the book, scan the QR code on the front, and you will be able to subscribe for free to my private database. Subscribers will receive email updates when the laws change and when we win cases. You’re going to be able to access the archives and immediately download the 2025 Comprehensive Update that includes a chapter that is dedicated to explaining sensitive places, a standalone chapter as to where you can and cannot carry. Hey, Teddy, tell us about Press Checks. Teddy Nappen 23:01 Yes. As we know, Press Checks are always free. And I wanted to kind of commemorate this one, because I think the episode is going to be airing right after fourth of July. As a Happy Fourth of July segment, I wanted to kind of do a quick question. What would be President Donald Trump’s carry gun? And it was an idea. Because, first of all, he can’t possess firearms right now until he gets his record cleared. Page – 6 – of 16 Evan Nappen 23:34 I think he should have a solid gold Desert Eagle 50 that has been signed by Bibi Netanyahu because it’s, of course, made by Israeli, you know, made in Israel, or made by the Israeli company. So, there you go. I think that would be great. And he could call it his personal B2. What do you think of that? Teddy Nappen 24:04 That’d be pretty funny. I was playing around with like, I remember, I think it was NRA, or one of the others. It was Friends of the NRA, where they did the .45 1911 that they did in honor of Trump. If I recall. Evan Nappen 24:18 As you know, Teddy, I have collected Trump guns. So, you know, I have an Auto Ordinance Thompson, that is all Trump. .45 for Trump. It’s really cool. I have 1911s honoring Trump, and Glocks honoring Trump. And recently, I got a Bond (Arms) Derringer honoring Trump. The Trump guns are a lot of fun to collect, and you know that Trump guns will always be very valuable. So, those are guns honoring Trump. But I don’t know if Trump would necessarily carry a Trump gun, but he might, you never know. But I think it’s gonna have to be pretty, and it’s gonna have to have some gold in it. Man, it’s got to have gold to be Trumpian, right? Because it’s like golden age and the golden dome, and he’s making America gold. So,this is the thing for him. Teddy Nappen 25:11 Well, it’s actually pretty funny. I was doing a little research, and I came across this great article. It broke down the Presidents and their carries, like all of them that had like every single one of them. And funny enough, in September 2023 from Duke Center for Firearm Law, it was written by Andrew Willinger. (https://firearmslaw.duke.edu/2024/01/presidential-firearms-part-i) (https://firearmslaw.duke.edu/2024/02/presidential-firearms-part-ii) Apparently Trump was at a South Carolina gun shop and was perusing the firearms to which the media tried to jump on it and say he bought a gun, even though he was currently indicted. One of the things they were circling around is he was looking at the Glocks in particular as one of the things he wanted. Evan Nappen 25:58 Well, they did make a Trump Glock, you know. They did make one, I saw, not that Glock necessarily, I don’t if it was necessarily authorized by them or not. But I did see Glocks engraved, laser engraved, for Trump. And in fact, I have one of them in my collection. So, it’s pretty cool. But you see, as a convicted felon, this is like insanity, right? That he’s even a convicted felon. That’s got to get tossed on appeal, that BS conviction. But here’s the deal. It does say on a 4473, if you’re under indictment, you cannot acquire a firearm while under indictment. But, of course, I don’t know why President Trump can’t pardon himself or have the justice department do a Relief from Disabilities for himself even, and get a gun. I mean, let’s face it. It’s pretty absurd when the President of the United States is somehow prohibited from having a handgun, but he can launch nuclear weapons. Okay? I mean, it’s about the height of absurdity there. Page – 7 – of 16 Teddy Nappen 27:00 Oh, don’t worry, it’ll get cleared up. But I was also pretty funny. It said currently, Joe Biden has said he owns at least one shotgun, which, Evan Nappen 27:09 Yeah, well, he’s the one that gives the wonderful advice of just fire two shots Teddy Nappen 27:14 in the backyard. Evan Nappen 27:16 What an idiot. What a moron. Do not just fire two shots out your back door or whatever. Don’t do it. Do not do that. I mean, basically anything Biden says or does, just don’t listen to the guy. He has no clue from you know, you can’t own a cannon. Oh yes, you can. To firing two shots. This guy talks about guns. He has zero knowledge about guns, as well as just about everything else. So, it’s just unbelievable. Actually, I have a Biden gun. I have a Biden gun, but it’s a gun that mocks Biden. It was a Rossi, I think .22 that actually mocked Biden. I said, Okay, that is sort of almost a Trump gun, because it’s mocking Biden. So, I thought that was pretty cool. Teddy Nappen 28:04 Yeah, so, I was kind of going through this whole tour of looking at different presidents and their carries, and funny enough, from the American Riflemen, it was by Philip Reifer, the senior curator at the NRA Museum. (https://www.americanrifleman.org/content/the-guns-of-u-s-presidents/) He wrote up this whole article about the Presidents and their carries, which is to kind of give. I love General George Washington, from his 18th century Flintlock pistols that are currently on display, and they were later, this is really amazing, these pistols were then gifted from his descendant to Andrew Jackson. And now currently sit at Mount Vernon in Virginia, as well as his others were in West Point. Evan Nappen 28:53 Well, Teddy, you’ve seen my exact reproduction of the George Washington flintlock. I have that hanging up in the man cave, right? Exact reproduction of what George Washington carried, and it’s a very cool gun. It’s a really very handsome Flintlock. Teddy Nappen 29:13 Yeah. And what I also thought was interesting was Thomas. Now this is you everyone would assume, if you were to take a guess who had the largest gun collection as President? You would just, you know, knee jerk, you would say what? Theodore Roosevelt would probably be your first guess. Evan Nappen 29:31 Right. Teddy Nappen 29:31 Apparently, no. Thomas Jefferson. Page – 8 – of 16 Evan Nappen 29:35 I believe it. Teddy Nappen 29:36 He was the one who loved collecting. Evan Nappen 29:39 Thomas Jefferson was officially a gun nut like us. I would love to have him on the show and we could talk guns and the Declaration of Independence and all kinds of cool stuff. He was definitely a gun guy. But how many guns did he have? Did you find out how many? Teddy Nappen 29:39 So, it seemed like I couldn’t get an exact amount. It seemed to have been around over 50, but I couldn’t get. Evan Nappen 30:03 All right. Good for TJ man. Teddy Nappen 30:05 But this is the trick. When he was Minister of France, he hung out with the French gun maker named Honore Blanc, who demonstrated how guns could be made via manufacturing identical parts. Evan Nappen 30:24 Eli Whitney of him. Teddy Nappen 30:25 Well, funny enough. Jefferson brings this information and eventually brings it over to Eli Whitney to develop the first factory. Evan Nappen 30:33 How did I guess that? Yeah, first factory. Teddy Nappen 30:36 He was the one that pushed for the early manufacturing of firearms in the U.S. Thomas Jefferson. Evan Nappen 30:42 And today, we take it for granted that, you know, our ARs are completely modular, interchangeable parts, all that kind of stuff. But it goes all the way back to someone had to think of it first, and it was really credited to the American innovation, to Eli Whitney. But I didn’t know that Eli Whitney was actually encouraged by a French gun maker and Thomas Jefferson. That’s very interesting. Teddy Nappen 31:07 Yup, and kind of going over, as I just mentioned there, Andrew Jackson, who, by the way, was in 100 duels. Page – 9 – of 16 Evan Nappen 31:15 Yeah, he was. Do not insult him or his wife, or you are a dead man. You are a dead man. Do not. Yeah, do not f with him. He’s right up there with yeah. Teddy Nappen 31:28 What’s really messed up is that he used the pistols that were gifted by Lafayette to Washington to kill Charles Dickinson. Evan Nappen 31:38 Oh, really? Did he? Well, dueling was a serious business, and, you know, honor was not taken lightly, man, so. But you know, the time of dueling, most of time in the code Duello, you didn’t end up in a duel. It was actually designed to avoid the duel and make amends. But if you got to the end of the line with the code, then there was no choice, and you were going to have a shootout. You know, that’s how it worked. So, the code Duello, but that’s very interesting. That’s very interesting about him actually using one of those firearms to take somebody’s life. Teddy Nappen 32:21 And of course, I gotta mention Theodore Roosevelt, but this one, I thought, is really funny. The great grandson of General Grant gifted Theodore Roosevelt a one as a because he had a he gifted him collection. He knew of his interest in firearms. And actually gifted him like the collection, like some of Grant’s collection. Evan Nappen 32:48 Wow. Teddy Nappen 32:48 And including, as this is really what was later given to the NRA headquarters for one of Theodore Roosevelt’s nightstand guns, which was an FN Browning from 1899. Evan Nappen 33:03 Oh, okay. So, that was one of the first semi-auto pocket pistols. That FN Browning and a gun variant of that was actually used to start World War One. Teddy Nappen 33:21 Yeah. Well, there you go. Well, hopefully they enjoyed the sandwich shop. Evan Nappen 33:26 Yeah, that’s right. Yeah. Well, you better explain why you said the sandwich shop. Some folks Teddy Nappen 33:33 So, in Sarajevo, that was where the man assassinated the Archduke of Ferdinand. Page – 10 – of 16 Evan Nappen 33:40 Now just wait a minute. Wait a minute. You actually went there and stood there. You have. You were really there, right? Tell me about it. Teddy Nappen 33:50 Well, so, if you go there, what’s really messed up is they actually have a car of the Archduke Ferdinand. Where the car, where he was driving, and you drive up to where he was and you can stand. And they actually engraved into the stone where you could stand, and it was where you stood. Evan Nappen 34:13 At the spot where the Archduke was bumped off. Teddy Nappen 34:14 Yes, and so what happened was the assassin spent the entire day trying to get the Archduke, and couldn’t find him. So, he goes in the sandwich shop, and then he looks over and there’s the Archduke. He just runs out and shoots him. And that was it. Evan Nappen 34:30 Sometimes, opportunity knocks, huh? Teddy Nappen 34:33 Exactly. Unfortunately, the sandwich shop is gone, but there’s a wonderful museum dedicated to the whole incident. I saw their version. They don’t have the pistol, and I will say your FN is better than the museum’s. Evan Nappen 34:47 My World War One starter pistol is better conditioned than the one in the museum, huh? Okay, well, it not only started World War One, but it also helped contribute to World War Two. And you know, all this coming to that moment in time there in Sarajevo at the famous bridge. Where you actually stood, pretty cool. So. Teddy Nappen 35:13 I will say this one I liked a lot. Ronald Reagan. So, there’s this long debate. Supposedly he carried, what one report said from one of his aides was that he was, from a .38 that he had in his briefcase. However, there is a Times articles, an article. (https://time.com/3923183/ronald-reagan-gun/) It was the gun the president kept in his briefcase. It was written by, this is Time Staff, but supposedly it was a .380, sorry, a 1934 Walther PPK .380, which he bought when he was in Des Moines. And he kept that in his briefcase. Evan Nappen 35:57 Des Moines, Iowa? Huh. That’s pretty interesting. That’s interesting that Reagan had a, was it? A PPK, you said. Page – 11 – of 16 Teddy Nappen 36:09 PPK, Walther PPK. 380. Evan Nappen 36:13 So, he was influenced by Ian Fleming and James Bond, I guess, you know. Teddy Nappen 36:18 Yeah. And it was funny. He took that briefcase to the Soviet Union. Evan Nappen 36:24 With his pistol? Teddy Nappen 36:25 Yeah, that’s the theory. That’s what the reports say, which is, pretty funny. Evan Nappen 36:30 I like that. Well, you know, Teddy, I have a gun from Senator Rudman, a Senator from New Hampshire. It was a gun that was his when he was serving as Attorney General. And that was a gun that he talks about in his book, that he kept in Washington, contrary to Washington’s gun ban. He did not give anything about that. He said he was going to have his gun, and this was his gun that he had there. Pretty cool. Teddy Nappen 37:09 Yeah, I will end it for this then, because you mentioned New Hampshire. Franklin Pierce. Evan Nappen 37:16 Ah, yes. President Pierce, favorite. Teddy Nappen 37:21 He was gifted a Colt Model 1851 Navy percussion revolver from Sam Colt. Evan Nappen 37:30 Nice. Samuel Colt presents. Teddy Nappen 37:34 Yeah, here’s your revolver. It like by it was, it was an actual like, presented to him like. Evan Nappen 37:41 That’s sweet. Teddy Nappen 37:42 It’s amazing, to be handed by the man who invented the Colt revolver. That is crazy. Page – 12 – of 16 Evan Nappen 37:48 Well, that is pretty cool. Well, history is. I love it. And, Teddy, I thank you for doing that special Fourth of July retrospective. We have here some important Ask Evan gun questions, and I think you’ll find these interesting. This is from Joe. Joe says, Hello, Evan. I want to thank you for providing a free source of real information for New Jersey gun owners. Your podcast is priceless. I do have a few questions. Are the Lehigh Xtreme Defender and the Speer Gold Dot G2 legal for carry outside the home in New Jersey? Okay, so, what is the deal with hollow points? Hollow nose, we’ve talked about it. I want to immediately just refer everybody to the State Police website, the FAQ on firearm information. (https://www.nj.gov/njsp/firearms/firearms-faqs.shtml) If you go to Question 20, the State Police say the following. The question says, I’m not a police officer. Are hollow points legal for me to possess? And the State Police say yes. According to N.J.S. 2C:39-3f, 2C:39-3(g)(2), and 2C:39-6f, they are legal to purchase and possess in your home or on land owned or possessed by you, at the gun range, or while traveling to and from such places. Hollow point ammunition is NOT legal for concealed carry in New Jersey. Ammunition lacking a hollow cavity at the tip, such as those with a polymer filling, are not considered to be hollow point ammunition. Evan Nappen 39:46 So, we have the state police making it clear that rounds like the Hornaday Critical Defense that have a polymer filling, they are not covered by the law. According to the State Police. Police on their website, and they’re the ones empowered to give such advice that if you follow it and they’re proven wrong, you even have a legal defense called ignorance or mistake of law, which we’ve discussed on the show before. So, if you want to see the actual language in writing, there you have it. Evan Nappen 40:14 Now here we have a question about some specific ammo. We’re talking about Lehigh Xtreme Defender. What is Lehigh Xtreme Defender? What type of bullet is it? And what it says right from the Lehigh here, it says right here. (https://lehighdefense.com/reloading-bullets/xtreme-defense.html) It’s called the Xtreme Penetrator. It uses in its design, what is essentially a monolithic bullet of solid copper that has cuts on the side of it. So, it acts as a penetrator, but it does not have a hollow cavity. The cuts are on the side. It’s not a cavity in the center. It’s not hollow in its nose. It just has a design on the nose, and is a solid copper, except where there are notches cut into the side for the bullet performance. I think, and given what the State Police say about having a hollow cavity, this is where we would argue that it does not have a hollow cavity. But, unfortunately, it’s not specifically named, and it’s not a polymer-filled bullet. So, I don’t think you want to be the test case, even though I believe we have a defense here. I would have to just lean against carrying those only because we have a bit of ambiguity here. So, we’re not as solid as we can be. Evan Nappen 42:02 However, with the Speer Gold Dot G2, now that round is, and this is from Speer, talks about it. (https://www.speer.com/ammunition/gold-dot/) Their hollow point design has a shallow cavity in the nose of the bullet. However, it’s filled with what is called a durable elastomer. And what is an elastomer, you may ask? Well, if you look it up in the dictionary there, it’s a rubbery material composed of chain- like molecules or polymers that can recover their original shape after being stretched. Aha. So, we have Page – 13 – of 16 a polymer type filling in the cavity that fits what the State Police say are not hollow nose bullets. So, there you go. You can pull that language yourself and read it. Evan Nappen 43:06 Joe also asked, I want to add a new handgun to my newly acquired New Jersey Permit to Carry. Do I need to submit a form? If so, which one? Yes, the form (S.P.182a) is right on the State Police website (under “Forms to Download” – Permit to Carry). (https://www.nj.gov/njsp/firearms/forms.shtml)It’s there to add any guns you wish to carry. You don’t have to qualify specifically on any particular gun, and so it doesn’t matter. The CCARE tested only your core competency. Just file the form with any guns you wish to carry. It’s very simple. It’s right online. You can find that form right at the State Police website, pretty close to where you can find that FAQ on the State Police website. Evan Nappen 43:44 And finally, three, if I have a gun in a locked case and secured in my vehicle, is there still a Duty to Disclose if I’m pulled over by an officer? Or does that only apply if it’s on my person? If you have a Permit to Carry, the Duty to Disclose applies whether you are carrying or transporting your gun. You still have a Duty to Disclose, which means, if you’re stopped or detained by law enforcement, you must immediately disclose that you are carrying or transporting your handgun, if you are a Permit to Carry holder. If you are not a Permit to Carry holder, then you do not have a Duty to Disclose. Only Permit to Carry holders have a Duty to Disclose. As a matter of fact, if you’re carrying illegally, you have no Duty to Disclose. But, if you have that carry permit, you have to disclose whether you’re carrying loaded on your person or whether you’re transporting unloaded in your vehicle. That Duty to Disclose is still present. Evan Nappen 44:38 Now, we have one other question here from Anthony. Anthony is asking what does New Jersey mean by a semi-automatic version of a fully-automatic firearm? I’m specifically trying to buy a B&T tp9 pistol. It’s under a different model name than the B&T MP9. So, I was wondering if it counts as a semi- automatic version of a fully-automatic firearm. The answer to that is yes, it does. It does because the basis of it can be pretty easily demonstrated that it is that, in terms of that the tp9, that you have the what is the select fire version of the MP9. It’s difference being simply select fire where it can go full auto. And the problem here isn’t even just that. Because whether it is or isn’t, you can go to the Attorney General Guidelines, the guidelines we use to test compliancy for whether something is an assault firearm. People do not often speak about the section of the guidelines that talk about semi- automatic pistols. Evan Nappen 45:53 So, this B&T is a semi-automatic pistol, and here’s what makes a semi-auto pistol compliant or not. It says under Section B., a semi-automatic pistol that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine. And this one does take a detachable magazine. And has at least two of the following. So, number one, an ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of the grip. Well, here that doesn’t apply because the magazine on the BT does, in fact, go in the grip. Two, a threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash suppressor, forward handgrip or silencer. It does have a threaded barrel. Three, a shroud that attaches to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel and that permits Page – 14 – of 16 the shooter to hold the firearm with the nontrigger hand without being burned. It has that. It has that on the gun. So, you now have two offending features, which would make it, under the AG Guidelines, an assault firearm. Then it further states, manufactured weight of 50 ounces or more. Well, I checked the weight, and the weight of the B&T is under that. It appears to be 46.3 ounces. But then it says a semi- automatic version of an automatic firearm. I think the State would make a pretty strong argument that it is, in fact, based on the one that is a select fire. But, even if that one is found that it isn’t, you still have the other two offending features. So, I’d watch out for the B&T. It’s not going to fly under the guidelines that control New Jersey’s assault firearm law at the moment. Evan Nappen 47:33 Now, let me talk to you, folks about the segment of the show that we all want to know, and that’s the GOFU. That’s the Gun Owner Fuck Up. That’s where we discuss a mistake, or mistakes, made by gun owners that can be quite costly to them. You get to learn it for free, so you don’t make the mistake. So, here I have somebody who is making a series of GOFUs that could have been problematic, but it really gives a good springboard to understand. First is the person says they did a voluntary registration of a pre 1968 non-serialized .22 rifle. So, first of all, why do you voluntarily register anything? It’s voluntary. You don’t have to register. So, if it’s a voluntary registration, don’t go voluntarily registering anything. Now, you have put yourself on the radar. Luckily, this was done in the 1980s. So, it was done a long time ago. It doesn’t matter about that voluntary registration way back then, that’s all it is. Evan Nappen 48:38 But then the person is worried now about the ghost gun laws kicking in because of the that not having a serial number. As you may recall, we took care of that issue with the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs (ANJRPC.org) My good friend and colleague, Dan Schmutter, Scott Bach, and we were able to get the Attorney General to put out guidelines that said that pre198 guns are not covered by the non-serialized ghost gun law. So, it’s a safe gun with no serial number because of that. Remember, millions of guns were originally included, and the good work of our state Association and those that assisted there changed that, including yours truly. Evan Nappen 49:18 Then the GOFU continues, because he talked about when the registration was done, he noticed there was a wrong model number put on the voluntary registration. Well, don’t worry about that, because that gun ended up getting, as further pointed out, transferred dealer to dealer to a relative in another state. Well, as long as it’s been transferred anyway, it’s a non-issue in New Jersey. It went through dealer to dealer. It’s now lawfully transferred. Putting a wrong model number accidentally way back doesn’t matter at this time, and even if it was intentionally wrong, if it was done way back, then the statute of limitations has long passed. Which would have been five years. So, there’s nothing to worry about. Evan Nappen 50:02 But as you can see, the series of GOFUs here. If there was something that was a problem in terms of bringing yourself to the attention. Oh, and then I failed to tell you the last kicker, which was this person then emailed New Jersey State Police, asking whether anything they did there’s a problem. So, folks, please don’t do that. If you have issues or problems, talk to an attorney so it stays confidential. Luckily, there is no problem here. The statute of limitations has long run anyway. And the gun was not a Page – 15 – of 16 problem under the ghost gun law anyway, and voluntary registration, luckily didn’t have any effect. And all those things, we can see how any one of these things could cause a problem and escalate to big problems. So, please don’t do GOFUs. If you have a question, talk to an attorney before you take any action. An attorney that knows gun law. Make sure you get the answer. Don’t speculate or guess or think you know what the law says, or think you’re doing right. New Jersey gun laws are notorious for being counter intuitive and for laying traps for the law-abiding citizen. Because what are they about? They’re about disenfranchisement of our rights. They are about suppressing our gun rights. They are about turning law- abiding citizens into criminals. So, that they can not only lose their gun rights, but also not vote. Don’t fall for it. Evan Nappen 51:32 This is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens. Speaker 2 51:43 Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state. Page – 16 – of 16 Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S3 E245_Transcript About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets. Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News. As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists. He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America. Email Evan Your Comments and Questions  [email protected] Join Evan’s InnerCircleHere’s your chance to join an elite group of the Savviest gun and knife owners in America.  Membership is totally FREE and Strictly CONFIDENTIAL.  Just enter your email to start receiving insider news, tips, and other valuable membership benefits.   Email (required) *First Name *Select list(s) to subscribe toInnerCircle Membership Yes, I would like to receive emails from Gun Lawyer Podcast. (You can unsubscribe anytime)Constant Contact Use. Please leave this field blank.var ajaxurl = "https://gun.lawyer/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php";

  Episode 244-Gun Rights Oppressors Coming on Strong Also Available OnSearchable Podcast Transcript Gun Lawyer — Episode 244 Transcript SUMMARY KEYWORDS Gun rights, reconciliation bill, National Firearms Act, silencers, SBRs, SBSs, Senate parliamentarian, Elizabeth McDonough, Senator Cornyn, Senator Thune, JD Vance, Second Amendment, knife laws, Supreme Court, nationwide injunctions. SPEAKERS Evan Nappen, Speaker 2, Teddy Nappen Evan Nappen 00:15 I’m Evan Nappen. Teddy Nappen 00:17 and I’m Teddy Nappen. Evan Nappen 00:18 and welcome to Gun Lawyer. So, the gun rights oppressors are out in full force, and they’re setting us back. It’s a couple steps forward, and then a couple steps back. The battle rages. So, we had gotten into the reconciliation bill, the repeal on the National Firearms Act (NFA) of the, we’ll just call it ban, for lack of a better word, ban on silencers and the ban on SBRs (Short Barrel Rifles) and SBSs (Shot Barrel Shotguns) and AOWs (Any Other Weapons). The repeal was in the bill, but as a reconciliation bill, it only requires a simple majority in which we could avoid cloture, avoid filibuster. You know, that’s where the Democrats who aren’t in power invoke that so that 60 votes is needed in order to get something passed. In this way, the Democrat gun rights oppressors can still stop us from regaining our liberty. And so by putting it in a reconciliation bill, it was excellent, because we could avoid that. Evan Nappen 01:38 And reconciliation, though, is limited to tax matters. But the beauty of it is that the NFA is a tax law. The National Firearms Act was enacted based on the power of taxation. Yet, every reconciliation bill has to be evaluated by the Senate Parliamentarian, whose name is Elizabeth MacDonough. She is a Democrat who’s been there for well over a decade. And why they don’t can her ass, I have no idea. But she took the party line, and in doing what they call the “Byrd Bath” from Senator Byrd, she ripped out of the reconciliation bill the pro-Second Amendment rights language of the bill. So, that is really a shame. Now it’s not over yet, but we were on a fast track here to get liberty on those issues restored. But now, thanks to Democrats, again, we’re back where we were. Evan Nappen 02:55 So, at this point, what we’re hoping to see is a couple things. Number one is Senator (John) Cornyn has stated that he’s confident the bill can be amended to eliminate the NFA tax on suppressors, SBRs and all that. But just eliminating the tax may or may not eliminate the registration and that’s the onerous Page – 1 – of 11 part of the infliction on our Second Amendment rights. It’s not just about paying 200 bucks. It’s about the Government regulating, to the degree of discouragement, the acquisition of these items. So, I don’t know if Senator Cornyn’s plan will get us to the goal of the nullification, if you will, of these NFA provisions. Evan Nappen 03:56 The other attempt, is to get either Senator (John) Thune, who’s of course, the head of the Senate, or better yet, J.D. Vance, to override the ruling by the partisan parliamentarian. But that is somewhat more of a long shot and most likely not going to happen, because the Senate is afraid that if we do that now, that later, if power shifts in the Houses, the Democrats will try to ram through more anti-liberty, more to anti-gun, more anti-rights, more of their progressive insanity agenda, not just on guns and that the Parliamentarian’s ruling needs to be respected. Now, of course, it was always funny is the Republicans, you know, try to enforce and play by these rules, until the Democrats “f” them later, where they don’t play by these rules. So, to worry about the future with this is stupid, because if the Democrats do gain power, they’ll be the ones to actually not follow a Parliamentarian’s recommendations. Evan Nappen 05:23 We’ve seen them do this in the past. Because cloture, originally, you know that rule, that filibuster rule, applied universally, and it was the Democrats that changed it for judges and changed it for tax things so they could move their agenda. And, you know, when it suits them, they’re happy with it. But Republicans don’t seem to have the balls to do what’s right. And by the way, we have three and a half or more years with President Trump, and he’s turning the country around. So, to be worrying about our potential loss of power down the road is just ridiculous to make that the consideration when it comes to restoring our Second Amendment rights. But yet, here we are. Evan Nappen 06:13 So, the fight is on, and I would highly recommend that you join the fight. That you join the NRA (National Rifle Association) and GOA (Gun Owners of America) and FPC (Firearm Policy Coalition). I’m a member of every organization I can join, and you should as well. This fight is ongoing. Now, of course, if it is cut out of this bill, if it is cut out of this, it doesn’t mean we can’t try to bring it again later. But then, with the 60 vote majority required, the anti-2A oppressors will have a much better shot at stopping important pro-Second Amendment rights laws from passing. As they always do, they oppose them. So, that’s where we’re looking at. That’s the playing field at the moment. We’ll see what happens. Maybe we can pull a rabbit out of a hat here, and we can still see a victory. Teddy Nappen 07:15 I would ask just because I’m going to be completely honest, I’ve never heard of what is a Parliamentarian. I’ve never even heard of that job title. Because it seems like, for the fact that it just screwed us out of one of the most pro-gun legislations humanly possible. I mean, I would have put this right after Secretary of State, then, like it’s, if it’s that powerful. Evan Nappen 07:39 Well, the Parliamentarian is for the Senate, not for the House. And the Parliamentarian’s job, if you will, is to look at a reconciliation bill and remove anything out of it that’s not related to taxation. It’s not part of Page – 2 – of 11 taxes. But here’s where the Parliamentarian is flat out wrong. The NFA is a tax. It is what empowered it. It is the reason for the Miller decision in the 1930s that upheld the NFA. (United States v. Miller, 307 (1939)) The Government said they have the power to tax, and therefore they could tax these items, and that’s how we got a federal gun law. To now say that it’s not a tax flies in the very face of how we’ve suffered under this because it is a tax. So, this is a partisan move by the Parliamentarian. The Senate should appoint their own new Parliamentarian and not deal with a Parliamentarian that is a Democrat that they’ve left in place for over a decade. It’s an absurdity. Then we’d be able to see these things pass. So, the game is afoot, and we’ll see what happens with that. Evan Nappen 08:52 I would like to point out at least something positive, and that is that the State of Delaware has passed a repeal of their switchblade law. (https://kniferights.org/legislative-update/delaware-switchblade-ban- repeal-knife-law-reform-passes/) It’s actually passed both houses now. It hasn’t been signed into law yet, but we’re hopeful that it will be. It would make Delaware join in the Knife Liberty Movement that I helped to start back in 2010 in New Hampshire. It’s been ongoing. Of course, New Jersey will probably be the last hold out. You know, New Jersey and California, of course. But, even California has automatic knives legal if they’re lower than two inches. But New Jersey is still, of course, stubborn on these things. But every state that we get repealing and eliminating their knife laws makes for a better argument for repealing the Federal Switchblade Act. So, this is really good work by my good friend Todd Rathner, who’s lobbyist for Knife Rights. Evan Nappen 09:55 And, as you may have heard, Vermont just recently repealed their ban on switchblade knives. So, we keep knocking it out of the park, state by state, on gaining liberty. Because remember, it is the right to keep and bear arms. It’s not the right to keep and bear guns. It’s the right to keep and bear arms, and knives are arms. So, I’m happy to see that progress is being made on that front for the Second Amendment. Evan Nappen 10:25 Additionally, you may have heard about the big win in the (United States) Supreme Court, where the law fair was being conducted against President Trump’s agenda. They were cherry picking and forum shopping activist judges who were implementing nationwide injunctions over the President’s attempts to govern the country. These little fiefdoms of judges think they’re the President by their unelected positions of being a judge. This has finally been laid to rest in a six to three decision by the Supreme Court that nationwide injunctions are not constitutional and they’re not part of the empowerment of the court. So that is good. Evan Nappen 11:14 Now some folks you may hear that and say, well, what about when we challenge our gun rights? What about that? What about when we want national injunction there? Well, if you look at the federal actions that have taken place over the recent time, it ends up that when we move for our injunctive relief, it’s not actually nationwide injunctive relief. It is strictly based on just one person and not making a ruling that somehow magically applies to everywhere else in America. It’s been focused primarily on plaintiffs that come in as member organizations. So, if you remember what occurred with pistol braces, for Page – 3 – of 11 example. If you were a member of Gun Owners of America, you were covered by the protection of the injunction. If you’re a member of NRA, they joined it. If you’re a member of certain gun rights groups that became plaintiffs, then their membership got covered. So, even that wasn’t nationwide as just a rule put forward by a lone judge. It was based on the party that was suing and in that case covering memberships. Evan Nappen 12:28 The other thing is, there still is an availability of class actions. And some of the Democrats are saying, well, that’s what we’re going to do. But class actions are not as easy as bringing these nationwide injunctions where they could cherry pick their judge and get it just to issue with class actions. There’s a lot more to it, and you’ve got to certify the class and all these other things. So, it’ll be a much greater burden for them to even try to do it. It’s definitely a win, but I’m not worried about that win when it comes to protecting our gun rights. We always seem to have these battles that go on and often even when we get injunctions, such as in the New Jersey carry killer case, the appeals court stayed our injunctions so that we’re put in a waiting period anyway. That’s much less likely with these Democrat, you know, suppression issues, where they are suppressing and oppressing the President and his agenda to make America great again, and abusing their power with the last vestige of lawfare and influence that they have in a government that is no longer controlled by Democrats, where the President has been rooting out the Deep State, where the President has been cutting funding to these agencies that were funding the ultra left programs, from protesters down to the lawfare itself. So, we’re making tremendous progress. Elections have consequences, and the Democrats are trying to stop those excellent consequences from occurring. They’ve taken a great punch to their face with this most recent ruling. However. Teddy Nappen 14:24 I will say from the ruling that I give Justice Amy Coney Barrett, Justice Barrett, credit. You know, there’s been some back and forth on her support, on her supporting Trump, on stuff. But this one, she pulled the Scalise, just like actually, blatantly insulted. Evan Nappen 14:45 Scalia. Teddy Nappen 14:45 Jacks. Scalia, oh yeah. Well, yeah, she. Evan Nappen 14:48 She nuked her, that’s for sure. Teddy Nappen 14:50 Yeah, it was. Evan Nappen 14:51 She was calling out her stupidity. Page – 4 – of 11 Teddy Nappen 14:54 It was. We will not dwell on Justice Jackson’s argument, which is at odds with more than two centuries worth of precedent. Evan Nappen 15:02 Other than that, it was brilliant. Teddy Nappen 15:05 We observe only this. Justice Jackson decries an imperial executive while embracing an imperial judiciary. Oh, my God. Evan Nappen 15:16 Beautifully said. Yeah, good pick for Amy Coney Barrett, yeah. Well, this is the thing. So, at least things are lining up way better to make America the greatest, strongest, best country after four years of suffering under the senile sock puppet. So, now, however, back at home, we have serious problems, and our serious problems are the New Jersey Senate Democrats. They’re pushing as well as with the House that has already pushed this package of atrocious bills. I’ve discussed them in detail, but let me just give you a quick review, because you need to contact your Senate members and tell them to oppose all the new gun bills. They’re trying to fast track it and get it passed. This is terrible. They’re attacking our rights, and the oppression is in full bore, full bloom, and is amazingly serious with the things they’re trying to do. They are trying to incarcerate all of us and turn us into criminals. And that’s not an exaggeration. Evan Nappen 16:22 So, let me just review with you the list of bills and give you some summaries of the evil that the other side is trying to get passed in New Jersey. One is S3894. Now that bill creates a crime for a simple possession of digital instructions to illegally manufacture firearms or components. It makes it a crime. Even if you never make a gun or component, simply having the digital file on your computer will and can result in a charge that is a high level felony charge against you. Then there’s S3895 that establishes a crime of reckless discharge. And what it does is it makes it a crime for anyone who discharges a firearm, even accidentally. Because unless the discharge is for a lawful purpose and accidents aren’t that, then and by the way, that’s just an affirmative defense. Even if you can claim it was a lawful purpose, such as in self-defense. Evan Nappen 17:37 This is really bad, because the bill presents itself as being a disorderly person’s offense. You know, what New Jersey calls their misdemeanors. But don’t fall for that, because it’s not a misdemeanor. If it occurs within 100 feet of a dwelling, it is a felony, and as a felony, you’ll be charged accordingly. You can be disenfranchised and completely lose your gun rights, and you can go to State Prison for a commission of a felony. Not to mention that you’re going to be thrown to the Gulag, the Gun Owner Gulag, where we are going to have to fight just to get you out of jail pending your trial because of New Jersey’s elimination of bail, as we’ve discussed on the show. So, this is adding even more peril to every gun owner in New Jersey. Just imagine if every traffic accident, no matter how minor, you know, a fender bender you may have, that any party to a car accident is going to get charged with a crime. Page – 5 – of 11 Imagine how many crimes would be charged on every single car accident. Well, an accident with a gun is the same as an accident with a car, an accident. It’s an accident. But they’re criminalizing accidents in New Jersey. Evan Nappen 18:57 Then there’s S3896, and this bill is another attempt at criminalizing a lawful self-defense with a firearm. And this is what we’re calling the Gulag bill as well. They’re just hammering us to try to keep us incarcerated. It’s just as we reviewed in the last show. Then there’s S3706 which mandates the use of merchant category codes. So, anybody selling firearms and ammo will have to be coded so that the Government can track these sales and know who’s purchased what. Then there’s a big enhancement to the Gun Owner Gulag under S3900 and that bill allows imprisonment before trial for just an unlimited amount of time when someone is accused of any use or possession firearm offense. There is a forced recommendation of “no release” that must be made. And we discussed that one in detail. These bills are alive and well and heading toward becoming law in New Jersey. Evan Nappen 20:26 Finally, there’s prohibition on devices that might convert a semi-auto to full-auto, and full-auto is already prohibited in New Jersey. This is unnecessary, but there you go, and it can cause even further jeopardy. They’re looking to incarcerate and criminalize every gun owner. This is a just a terrible situation getting worse and worse for New Jersey, and you have to be aware of this. Evan Nappen 21:01 The Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs is fighting this. As a matter of fact, the bills that I just reviewed with you came from their alert. (https://www.anjrpc.org/page/KeepOpposingNJGunBillsNow) If you are a member of The Association New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs, you would have received that alert. They have the buttons there for you to push so you can notify your legislators to fight it. They keep you aware of these legislative battles. It’s very important that you be a member of the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs (https://www.anjrpc.org/) You’ll also be helping in our fight, in litigating the horrible gun laws in Jersey, from the carry killer bill to the assault firearm ban, to the large capacity magazine and others. Your Association, your state Association, is fighting hard on all fronts in a very, very difficult and tough environment known as the Democratic People’s Republic of New Jersey. They need your help. They need your support. You need to be a member. Go to https://www.anjrpc.org/.org and make sure you join today. Evan Nappen 22:09 I also want to talk about our good friends at WeShoot, which is an indoor range in Lakewood. It’s the range that Teddy and I both shoot at and got our certifications at. You’ll love it at WeShoot. They are right there, conveniently off the Parkway in Lakewood. And this week, they have some pretty cool specials that I want to mention to you. They’re offering the OA 2311, which is a full size pro elite. It’s a 2011-style performance pistol built for speed, precision and dominance. I love those 2011-type setups. They’re really cool. I know you will, too. They also have a Mossberg 590R Breacher, and that’s a 12 gauge mag-fed shotgun with breacher-ready to blow through doors. It’s tactical, aggressive and built to handle whatever you throw at it. As a 590, it is a pump action. It is not an assault firearm in New Jersey. It is completely lawful to have a Mossberg 590. The Marlin 1895 SBL is a classic lever action which is Page – 6 – of 11 made of stainless steel, and it fires a .45-70 cartridge. It’s very powerful, and I love the Marlin 1895 series. I’ve used mine, and so has Teddy. He used his to hunt bears. That’s the gun that saved my life when I was actually charged by a bear in the stand. So, I’m a big fan of the 1895 Marlin. That .45-70 cartridge packs a wallop, and you can get ammo from buffalo, boar and garret cartridges that are super hard cast. Just little freight trains that come out of that gun and that can basically take down anything on the planet. So, if you want a great gun that’s reliable, that’s solid, that’s super powerful. And just as an aside, it was the gun used in Jurassic Park. Teddy, who was carrying that 1895 gun in Jurassic Park? Who was that actor? You know. Teddy Nappen 24:19 It was Chris Pratt, and that was Jurassic World. Evan Nappen 24:23 There you go. My cinephile son, Teddy, who knows movies inside out. And I said, great. Do you know what? That is actually the best gun to use on dinosaurs, as well. So, I would highly recommend that if you feel threatened by dinosaurs, that Mr. Pratt there made an excellent choice as well. And you can pick up your dinosaur shooter at WeShoot. They have the Marlins there. Also, as just a little tip. If you check out the WeShoot website, you will see that they are featuring Sharol. She is one of the WeShoot girls, and she’s there posing with guns. And if you like to look at beautiful women and guns, then you will be quite satisfied going there and checking them out. weshootusa.com. Go to weshootusa.com for all your guns and training and range requirements. They are excellent, and I give them my highest recommendation. Evan Nappen 25:30 As I also shamelessly give my book, New Jersey Gun Law. It’s the Bible of New Jersey gun law, and it is a book used by, well, everybody that wants to know about New Jersey gun law. It’s 120 topics, all in a question-and-answer format. I made it user friendly. You can get the book at EvanNappen.com. You’ll see the big orange book. Just click it, and order it. You’ll have it in a matter of days. And scan the front cover for the QR code. It’ll send you right to my free and private subscriber database. You can join there, and I’ll send you out alerts when the laws change. And look, some of these changes are coming down. As soon as they pass, I’ll be explaining them and telling you what you need to know. So, you’ll be getting updated, and your book stays current. Plus, you’ll be able to access the archives, and you’ll be able to pull the 2025 Comprehensive Update which updates everything to date. This way you stay on top of these insane gun laws of New Jersey. That’s my calling in life, to do that. So, go to EvanNappen.com. Hey, Teddy, what do you have for us in Press Checks today? Which we all know are free. Teddy Nappen 26:39 Again, kind of talking about the anti-gun movement. They always seem to find any chance they get to just do a little bit of blood dance, even in their own. As coming from Bearing Arms, many people may know about the assassination in Minnesota of the state representative and the attempted assassination on the state senator, and I believe, also his wife, as I recall. (https://bearingarms.com/tomknighton/2025/06/24/author-stephen-king-spins-anti-gun-fiction-in- minnesota-assassination-n1229039) But one of the most infamous anti-gunners, known as Stephen Page – 7 – of 11 King, decided to go on X and to post about calling Vance Boelter, the shooter, is clearly as nutty as a fruitcake. The real culprit is the gun he used. Evan Nappen 27:02 Of course, it’s the gun. Oh, course. It’s not a maniac or a mentally deranged person or a criminal. It’s the gun. Oh, how simplistic. Teddy Nappen 27:41 Yeah, I love his line in it. Stephen said, “Nuts are gonna do nutty, violent things, and guns are easily obtainable.” So, just to take a step back there. Nuts are gonna do nutty, violent things. Well, if that’s true, why are you blaming the firearm? If you know full well that evil people are always going to find ways of doing evil acts, yet you still blame the firearm. What’s the one line? You played yourself. But. Evan Nappen 28:14 Actually, it’s more likely to blame stories that glorify maniac violence. That would probably have a little more influence, even, than a claim of guns. He should get out there and say, hey, my books are a problem. Tell me. I bet he had one, Teddy. What’s his famous book that you trace to just like every school shooting, too, or thereabouts. Like, what is it? Teddy Nappen 28:42 Yes, well, just to establish it. Stephen King is an established anti-gunner. He’s donated to the Coalition for a Safer Maine, as from the CBS article. (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/stephen-king-donates-to- maine-gun-control-coalition/) I love how he always has to say, I’m a gun owner, but I support gun control. He always says that he, like, just bought a pistol just to make say, have that like safeguard of saying, oh, I’m a gun owner. So, not only are you an elitist, but you’re also a hypocrite. But going from that is what you were leading to. For many of you, you may be familiar with Stephen King on many of his books, a lot of his horror, a lot of his movies. However, there is one book he has done his best to bury. That is the book known as “Rage”. This is from “the-line-up of banned Stephen King books. (https://the-line-up.com/banned-stephen-king-books) For those of you who may not be aware of “Rage”, he was so much ashamed of the book, he didn’t even use his name. He used a pen name – Richard Bachman. Evan Nappen 29:38 Well, that’s why wasn’t he. That’s maybe one of the reasons he changed his name, his pen name, from Bachman. Teddy Nappen 29:45 So, not only is he a coward, where he doesn’t even own up to the book. Though, the book is about this protagonist, known as Charlie Decker, a high school student who is reprimanded for his violent behavior. He is expelled, and then one thing leads to another. It leads a vivid portrayal of him going on a killing spree in the school. Page – 8 – of 11 Evan Nappen 30:05 A school shooting. Shooting up a school. Oh, my, and this was before there was any rash of school shootings that he wrote this. Teddy Nappen 30:16 Yes. Evan Nappen 30:16 And how many school shooters have mentioned anything about that book being an influence on them? Any of them? Have anyone? Teddy Nappen 30:24 Many, in fact. In fact, coming from Fox News, they actually cite to many of the school shooters. (https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/why-stephen-kings-school-shooter-book-rage-is-out-of-print- and-a-copy-costs-500) It goes all the way back to 1997 in the Heath High School in Kentucky, where 14 year old Michael Carneal brought three guns to school and opened fire on a group of students. And sure enough, the police later discovered a copy of “Rage” in his locker. It was the fourth school gun violence incident traced to Stephen King’s now out of print book. In 1996, 14-year-old Barry Dale Loukaitis killed his Algebra teacher and tried to take hostages, allegedly claiming he was inspired by the book “Rage” and modeled his life. Evan Nappen 30:47 He flat out admitted it. There you go. Teddy Nappen 30:50 In 1989, seventeen year old Dustin Pierce took a classroom of 11 students hostage, and he was trying to recreate the plot of “Rage”. After a nine hour standoff, he surrendered. This is just one of many of inspirations. By the way. Evan Nappen 31:24 This guy is not just a hypocrite. He’s one of the inspirations to the very shooters. It’s just outrageous. Teddy Nappen 31:34 Yes, and also, it wasn’t until the Newtown shooting that he officially pulled the book. And then I love his whole argument. I love how he said, like, he leans on, I’m a First Amendment advocate. Oh, you’re an advocate of the Constitution. Why not be an advocate of the Second Amendment as well? And actually go after and call out evil behavior, doing evil acts. Evan Nappen 31:57 Right. And then he might even be able to use that argument to say, look, I wrote a book. But there are nuts out there that try to make a horror fiction a reality. Just like there are nuts out there that use guns improperly. There are nuts out there that take on fiction of horror and make it into a false reality. Therefore, he could actually be consistent. But no, but no. He doesn’t do that. Page – 9 – of 11 Teddy Nappen 32:29 Yeah, and I always love how well they try to float the argument where they try to, like, draw that violence away. Like, no, no, books and movies don’t inspire violence. Guns. Guns create violence. Really? So, you’re saying nutty people. Where do they get the ideas from? Teddy Nappen 32:46 What was the one Stephen King book where it was the car running people over? Evan Nappen 32:46 Well, Teddy, wait now. Just yesterday, I saw a gun all by itself, run out of into the road, and just shoot somebody. All by itself. These guns are out of control. Someone’s got to do something about them. Because they just go all around shooting people by themselves. I don’t know how they got programmed. It’s amazing. Evan Nappen 33:11 Maybe that’s it. Maybe only in his books guns do that? Like Chris. What is Christine or Christie? Whatever. “Carrie”. Yeah, well. Teddy Nappen 33:21 It was a Misery where he has that, too. Evan Nappen 33:23 It was Misery. That was a different one that he did. You could ask James Khan about that one, right? But this is pretty crazy. But I guess if a gun is haunted and it’s a Stephen King haunted gun, that goes around shooting individuals, then number one, what he’s saying would be true. And number two, that would be the only ghost gun I would agree to ban. That haunted gun that goes around shooting individuals by themselves. That would be a true ghost gun that we should not have around. Because nothing’s worse than a gun independently going around shooting in Maine. Teddy Nappen 34:03 I will say we did have the haunted gun collection case. So, that was always. Evan Nappen 34:08 Well, that’s true. We did have that case, but they weren’t using the guns. The spirits were. They just, they were, yeah, that was crazy. That was one crazy case. Yeah, I hear you, man. Hey, I could do like a competition to Stephen King called “The Haunted Gun Collection” and write a whole thing about how that works, right? It could really expand on that theme, Teddy. Teddy Nappen 34:31 Also, if anyone is a collector of banned books, a copy of “Rage” does go for $500. So, if you want to find one. Page – 10 – of 11 Evan Nappen 34:39 Well, if you’re at flea markets, look for Richard Bachman’s “Rage”. But don’t let any children read it, though. We don’t want them getting bad ideas, I guess. But hey, you know, Teddy I want to tell you about this week’s GOFU, which is the Gun Owner Fuck Up. We love to talk about GOFUs, because these are expensive lessons that individuals have learned, and you get to learn for free. This week’s GOFU concerns knowing how much ammo you have on your person. And what I mean by that is this. If you are carrying your gun, you have magazines and ammo. Then if you wish to unload your gun, either to, let’s say, comply with a “sensitive place”, or maybe you need to travel and declare it going thru the airport and all these things, keep track of your amount of ammo. An easy way to do this is to make sure you carry your ammo and/or spare ammo, and the ammo that you’ve loaded your magazines with, in one of those MTM plastic ammo boxes or in the original factory box, in which each round fills a hole or a slot in the box. Evan Nappen 36:00 So, let’s say you get one of those 50 round MTM cases, and you’ve unloaded your gun. But you notice, hey, wait a minute, one of the slots doesn’t have a round in it? Now that’s a warning to you that you may have left around in a magazine or in the chamber of the gun or something like that. It ends up being a nice safeguard against forgetting a round when you think you may have unloaded. And this could become very important if you’re relying upon transporting or declaring your gun is unloaded, or any of those kind of things and suddenly it’s not because you missed a round. So, this confirms your ammo round count. We’ve had cases that came from individuals who unfortunately thought that a firearm did not contain ammunition, and next thing you know, they’re in a world of trouble. So, it’s a good tip when you store your ammo. Store it in a box or container that keeps the count of ammo readily visible. Evan Nappen 37:10 This is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens. Speaker 2 37:23 Gun Lawyer is a Counter Think Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state. Page – 11 – of 11 Gun Lawyer — Episode 244 Transcript SUMMARY KEYWORDS Gun rights, reconciliation bill, National Firearms Act, silencers, SBRs, SBSs, Senate parliamentarian, Elizabeth McDonough, Senator Cornyn, Senator Thune, JD Vance, Second Amendment, knife laws, Supreme Court, nationwide injunctions. SPEAKERS Evan Nappen, Speaker 2, Teddy Nappen Evan Nappen 00:15 I’m Evan Nappen. Teddy Nappen 00:17 and I’m Teddy Nappen. Evan Nappen 00:18 and welcome to Gun Lawyer. So, the gun rights oppressors are out in full force, and they’re setting us back. It’s a couple steps forward, and then a couple steps back. The battle rages. So, we had gotten into the reconciliation bill, the repeal on the National Firearms Act (NFA) of the, we’ll just call it ban, for lack of a better word, ban on silencers and the ban on SBRs (Short Barrel Rifles) and SBSs (Shot Barrel Shotguns) and AOWs (Any Other Weapons). The repeal was in the bill, but as a reconciliation bill, it only requires a simple majority in which we could avoid cloture, avoid filibuster. You know, that’s where the Democrats who aren’t in power invoke that so that 60 votes is needed in order to get something passed. In this way, the Democrat gun rights oppressors can still stop us from regaining our liberty. And so by putting it in a reconciliation bill, it was excellent, because we could avoid that. Evan Nappen 01:38 And reconciliation, though, is limited to tax matters. But the beauty of it is that the NFA is a tax law. The National Firearms Act was enacted based on the power of taxation. Yet, every reconciliation bill has to be evaluated by the Senate Parliamentarian, whose name is Elizabeth MacDonough. She is a Democrat who’s been there for well over a decade. And why they don’t can her ass, I have no idea. But she took the party line, and in doing what they call the “Byrd Bath” from Senator Byrd, she ripped out of the reconciliation bill the pro-Second Amendment rights language of the bill. So, that is really a shame. Now it’s not over yet, but we were on a fast track here to get liberty on those issues restored. But now, thanks to Democrats, again, we’re back where we were. Evan Nappen 02:55 So, at this point, what we’re hoping to see is a couple things. Number one is Senator (John) Cornyn has stated that he’s confident the bill can be amended to eliminate the NFA tax on suppressors, SBRs and all that. But just eliminating the tax may or may not eliminate the registration and that’s the onerous Page – 1 – of 11 part of the infliction on our Second Amendment rights. It’s not just about paying 200 bucks. It’s about the Government regulating, to the degree of discouragement, the acquisition of these items. So, I don’t know if Senator Cornyn’s plan will get us to the goal of the nullification, if you will, of these NFA provisions. Evan Nappen 03:56 The other attempt, is to get either Senator (John) Thune, who’s of course, the head of the Senate, or better yet, J.D. Vance, to override the ruling by the partisan parliamentarian. But that is somewhat more of a long shot and most likely not going to happen, because the Senate is afraid that if we do that now, that later, if power shifts in the Houses, the Democrats will try to ram through more anti-liberty, more to anti-gun, more anti-rights, more of their progressive insanity agenda, not just on guns and that the Parliamentarian’s ruling needs to be respected. Now, of course, it was always funny is the Republicans, you know, try to enforce and play by these rules, until the Democrats “f” them later, where they don’t play by these rules. So, to worry about the future with this is stupid, because if the Democrats do gain power, they’ll be the ones to actually not follow a Parliamentarian’s recommendations. Evan Nappen 05:23 We’ve seen them do this in the past. Because cloture, originally, you know that rule, that filibuster rule, applied universally, and it was the Democrats that changed it for judges and changed it for tax things so they could move their agenda. And, you know, when it suits them, they’re happy with it. But Republicans don’t seem to have the balls to do what’s right. And by the way, we have three and a half or more years with President Trump, and he’s turning the country around. So, to be worrying about our potential loss of power down the road is just ridiculous to make that the consideration when it comes to restoring our Second Amendment rights. But yet, here we are. Evan Nappen 06:13 So, the fight is on, and I would highly recommend that you join the fight. That you join the NRA (National Rifle Association) and GOA (Gun Owners of America) and FPC (Firearm Policy Coalition). I’m a member of every organization I can join, and you should as well. This fight is ongoing. Now, of course, if it is cut out of this bill, if it is cut out of this, it doesn’t mean we can’t try to bring it again later. But then, with the 60 vote majority required, the anti-2A oppressors will have a much better shot at stopping important pro-Second Amendment rights laws from passing. As they always do, they oppose them. So, that’s where we’re looking at. That’s the playing field at the moment. We’ll see what happens. Maybe we can pull a rabbit out of a hat here, and we can still see a victory. Teddy Nappen 07:15 I would ask just because I’m going to be completely honest, I’ve never heard of what is a Parliamentarian. I’ve never even heard of that job title. Because it seems like, for the fact that it just screwed us out of one of the most pro-gun legislations humanly possible. I mean, I would have put this right after Secretary of State, then, like it’s, if it’s that powerful. Evan Nappen 07:39 Well, the Parliamentarian is for the Senate, not for the House. And the Parliamentarian’s job, if you will, is to look at a reconciliation bill and remove anything out of it that’s not related to taxation. It’s not part of Page – 2 – of 11 taxes. But here’s where the Parliamentarian is flat out wrong. The NFA is a tax. It is what empowered it. It is the reason for the Miller decision in the 1930s that upheld the NFA. (United States v. Miller, 307 (1939)) The Government said they have the power to tax, and therefore they could tax these items, and that’s how we got a federal gun law. To now say that it’s not a tax flies in the very face of how we’ve suffered under this because it is a tax. So, this is a partisan move by the Parliamentarian. The Senate should appoint their own new Parliamentarian and not deal with a Parliamentarian that is a Democrat that they’ve left in place for over a decade. It’s an absurdity. Then we’d be able to see these things pass. So, the game is afoot, and we’ll see what happens with that. Evan Nappen 08:52 I would like to point out at least something positive, and that is that the State of Delaware has passed a repeal of their switchblade law. (https://kniferights.org/legislative-update/delaware-switchblade-ban- repeal-knife-law-reform-passes/) It’s actually passed both houses now. It hasn’t been signed into law yet, but we’re hopeful that it will be. It would make Delaware join in the Knife Liberty Movement that I helped to start back in 2010 in New Hampshire. It’s been ongoing. Of course, New Jersey will probably be the last hold out. You know, New Jersey and California, of course. But, even California has automatic knives legal if they’re lower than two inches. But New Jersey is still, of course, stubborn on these things. But every state that we get repealing and eliminating their knife laws makes for a better argument for repealing the Federal Switchblade Act. So, this is really good work by my good friend Todd Rathner, who’s lobbyist for Knife Rights. Evan Nappen 09:55 And, as you may have heard, Vermont just recently repealed their ban on switchblade knives. So, we keep knocking it out of the park, state by state, on gaining liberty. Because remember, it is the right to keep and bear arms. It’s not the right to keep and bear guns. It’s the right to keep and bear arms, and knives are arms. So, I’m happy to see that progress is being made on that front for the Second Amendment. Evan Nappen 10:25 Additionally, you may have heard about the big win in the (United States) Supreme Court, where the law fair was being conducted against President Trump’s agenda. They were cherry picking and forum shopping activist judges who were implementing nationwide injunctions over the President’s attempts to govern the country. These little fiefdoms of judges think they’re the President by their unelected positions of being a judge. This has finally been laid to rest in a six to three decision by the Supreme Court that nationwide injunctions are not constitutional and they’re not part of the empowerment of the court. So that is good. Evan Nappen 11:14 Now some folks you may hear that and say, well, what about when we challenge our gun rights? What about that? What about when we want national injunction there? Well, if you look at the federal actions that have taken place over the recent time, it ends up that when we move for our injunctive relief, it’s not actually nationwide injunctive relief. It is strictly based on just one person and not making a ruling that somehow magically applies to everywhere else in America. It’s been focused primarily on plaintiffs that come in as member organizations. So, if you remember what occurred with pistol braces, for Page – 3 – of 11 example. If you were a member of Gun Owners of America, you were covered by the protection of the injunction. If you’re a member of NRA, they joined it. If you’re a member of certain gun rights groups that became plaintiffs, then their membership got covered. So, even that wasn’t nationwide as just a rule put forward by a lone judge. It was based on the party that was suing and in that case covering memberships. Evan Nappen 12:28 The other thing is, there still is an availability of class actions. And some of the Democrats are saying, well, that’s what we’re going to do. But class actions are not as easy as bringing these nationwide injunctions where they could cherry pick their judge and get it just to issue with class actions. There’s a lot more to it, and you’ve got to certify the class and all these other things. So, it’ll be a much greater burden for them to even try to do it. It’s definitely a win, but I’m not worried about that win when it comes to protecting our gun rights. We always seem to have these battles that go on and often even when we get injunctions, such as in the New Jersey carry killer case, the appeals court stayed our injunctions so that we’re put in a waiting period anyway. That’s much less likely with these Democrat, you know, suppression issues, where they are suppressing and oppressing the President and his agenda to make America great again, and abusing their power with the last vestige of lawfare and influence that they have in a government that is no longer controlled by Democrats, where the President has been rooting out the Deep State, where the President has been cutting funding to these agencies that were funding the ultra left programs, from protesters down to the lawfare itself. So, we’re making tremendous progress. Elections have consequences, and the Democrats are trying to stop those excellent consequences from occurring. They’ve taken a great punch to their face with this most recent ruling. However. Teddy Nappen 14:24 I will say from the ruling that I give Justice Amy Coney Barrett, Justice Barrett, credit. You know, there’s been some back and forth on her support, on her supporting Trump, on stuff. But this one, she pulled the Scalise, just like actually, blatantly insulted. Evan Nappen 14:45 Scalia. Teddy Nappen 14:45 Jacks. Scalia, oh yeah. Well, yeah, she. Evan Nappen 14:48 She nuked her, that’s for sure. Teddy Nappen 14:50 Yeah, it was. Evan Nappen 14:51 She was calling out her stupidity. Page – 4 – of 11 Teddy Nappen 14:54 It was. We will not dwell on Justice Jackson’s argument, which is at odds with more than two centuries worth of precedent. Evan Nappen 15:02 Other than that, it was brilliant. Teddy Nappen 15:05 We observe only this. Justice Jackson decries an imperial executive while embracing an imperial judiciary. Oh, my God. Evan Nappen 15:16 Beautifully said. Yeah, good pick for Amy Coney Barrett, yeah. Well, this is the thing. So, at least things are lining up way better to make America the greatest, strongest, best country after four years of suffering under the senile sock puppet. So, now, however, back at home, we have serious problems, and our serious problems are the New Jersey Senate Democrats. They’re pushing as well as with the House that has already pushed this package of atrocious bills. I’ve discussed them in detail, but let me just give you a quick review, because you need to contact your Senate members and tell them to oppose all the new gun bills. They’re trying to fast track it and get it passed. This is terrible. They’re attacking our rights, and the oppression is in full bore, full bloom, and is amazingly serious with the things they’re trying to do. They are trying to incarcerate all of us and turn us into criminals. And that’s not an exaggeration. Evan Nappen 16:22 So, let me just review with you the list of bills and give you some summaries of the evil that the other side is trying to get passed in New Jersey. One is S3894. Now that bill creates a crime for a simple possession of digital instructions to illegally manufacture firearms or components. It makes it a crime. Even if you never make a gun or component, simply having the digital file on your computer will and can result in a charge that is a high level felony charge against you. Then there’s S3895 that establishes a crime of reckless discharge. And what it does is it makes it a crime for anyone who discharges a firearm, even accidentally. Because unless the discharge is for a lawful purpose and accidents aren’t that, then and by the way, that’s just an affirmative defense. Even if you can claim it was a lawful purpose, such as in self-defense. Evan Nappen 17:37 This is really bad, because the bill presents itself as being a disorderly person’s offense. You know, what New Jersey calls their misdemeanors. But don’t fall for that, because it’s not a misdemeanor. If it occurs within 100 feet of a dwelling, it is a felony, and as a felony, you’ll be charged accordingly. You can be disenfranchised and completely lose your gun rights, and you can go to State Prison for a commission of a felony. Not to mention that you’re going to be thrown to the Gulag, the Gun Owner Gulag, where we are going to have to fight just to get you out of jail pending your trial because of New Jersey’s elimination of bail, as we’ve discussed on the show. So, this is adding even more peril to every gun owner in New Jersey. Just imagine if every traffic accident, no matter how minor, you know, a fender bender you may have, that any party to a car accident is going to get charged with a crime. Page – 5 – of 11 Imagine how many crimes would be charged on every single car accident. Well, an accident with a gun is the same as an accident with a car, an accident. It’s an accident. But they’re criminalizing accidents in New Jersey. Evan Nappen 18:57 Then there’s S3896, and this bill is another attempt at criminalizing a lawful self-defense with a firearm. And this is what we’re calling the Gulag bill as well. They’re just hammering us to try to keep us incarcerated. It’s just as we reviewed in the last show. Then there’s S3706 which mandates the use of merchant category codes. So, anybody selling firearms and ammo will have to be coded so that the Government can track these sales and know who’s purchased what. Then there’s a big enhancement to the Gun Owner Gulag under S3900 and that bill allows imprisonment before trial for just an unlimited amount of time when someone is accused of any use or possession firearm offense. There is a forced recommendation of “no release” that must be made. And we discussed that one in detail. These bills are alive and well and heading toward becoming law in New Jersey. Evan Nappen 20:26 Finally, there’s prohibition on devices that might convert a semi-auto to full-auto, and full-auto is already prohibited in New Jersey. This is unnecessary, but there you go, and it can cause even further jeopardy. They’re looking to incarcerate and criminalize every gun owner. This is a just a terrible situation getting worse and worse for New Jersey, and you have to be aware of this. Evan Nappen 21:01 The Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs is fighting this. As a matter of fact, the bills that I just reviewed with you came from their alert. (https://www.anjrpc.org/page/KeepOpposingNJGunBillsNow) If you are a member of The Association New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs, you would have received that alert. They have the buttons there for you to push so you can notify your legislators to fight it. They keep you aware of these legislative battles. It’s very important that you be a member of the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs (https://www.anjrpc.org/) You’ll also be helping in our fight, in litigating the horrible gun laws in Jersey, from the carry killer bill to the assault firearm ban, to the large capacity magazine and others. Your Association, your state Association, is fighting hard on all fronts in a very, very difficult and tough environment known as the Democratic People’s Republic of New Jersey. They need your help. They need your support. You need to be a member. Go to https://www.anjrpc.org/.org and make sure you join today. Evan Nappen 22:09 I also want to talk about our good friends at WeShoot, which is an indoor range in Lakewood. It’s the range that Teddy and I both shoot at and got our certifications at. You’ll love it at WeShoot. They are right there, conveniently off the Parkway in Lakewood. And this week, they have some pretty cool specials that I want to mention to you. They’re offering the OA 2311, which is a full size pro elite. It’s a 2011-style performance pistol built for speed, precision and dominance. I love those 2011-type setups. They’re really cool. I know you will, too. They also have a Mossberg 590R Breacher, and that’s a 12 gauge mag-fed shotgun with breacher-ready to blow through doors. It’s tactical, aggressive and built to handle whatever you throw at it. As a 590, it is a pump action. It is not an assault firearm in New Jersey. It is completely lawful to have a Mossberg 590. The Marlin 1895 SBL is a classic lever action which is Page – 6 – of 11 made of stainless steel, and it fires a .45-70 cartridge. It’s very powerful, and I love the Marlin 1895 series. I’ve used mine, and so has Teddy. He used his to hunt bears. That’s the gun that saved my life when I was actually charged by a bear in the stand. So, I’m a big fan of the 1895 Marlin. That .45-70 cartridge packs a wallop, and you can get ammo from buffalo, boar and garret cartridges that are super hard cast. Just little freight trains that come out of that gun and that can basically take down anything on the planet. So, if you want a great gun that’s reliable, that’s solid, that’s super powerful. And just as an aside, it was the gun used in Jurassic Park. Teddy, who was carrying that 1895 gun in Jurassic Park? Who was that actor? You know. Teddy Nappen 24:19 It was Chris Pratt, and that was Jurassic World. Evan Nappen 24:23 There you go. My cinephile son, Teddy, who knows movies inside out. And I said, great. Do you know what? That is actually the best gun to use on dinosaurs, as well. So, I would highly recommend that if you feel threatened by dinosaurs, that Mr. Pratt there made an excellent choice as well. And you can pick up your dinosaur shooter at WeShoot. They have the Marlins there. Also, as just a little tip. If you check out the WeShoot website, you will see that they are featuring Sharol. She is one of the WeShoot girls, and she’s there posing with guns. And if you like to look at beautiful women and guns, then you will be quite satisfied going there and checking them out. weshootusa.com. Go to weshootusa.com for all your guns and training and range requirements. They are excellent, and I give them my highest recommendation. Evan Nappen 25:30 As I also shamelessly give my book, New Jersey Gun Law. It’s the Bible of New Jersey gun law, and it is a book used by, well, everybody that wants to know about New Jersey gun law. It’s 120 topics, all in a question-and-answer format. I made it user friendly. You can get the book at EvanNappen.com. You’ll see the big orange book. Just click it, and order it. You’ll have it in a matter of days. And scan the front cover for the QR code. It’ll send you right to my free and private subscriber database. You can join there, and I’ll send you out alerts when the laws change. And look, some of these changes are coming down. As soon as they pass, I’ll be explaining them and telling you what you need to know. So, you’ll be getting updated, and your book stays current. Plus, you’ll be able to access the archives, and you’ll be able to pull the 2025 Comprehensive Update which updates everything to date. This way you stay on top of these insane gun laws of New Jersey. That’s my calling in life, to do that. So, go to EvanNappen.com. Hey, Teddy, what do you have for us in Press Checks today? Which we all know are free. Teddy Nappen 26:39 Again, kind of talking about the anti-gun movement. They always seem to find any chance they get to just do a little bit of blood dance, even in their own. As coming from Bearing Arms, many people may know about the assassination in Minnesota of the state representative and the attempted assassination on the state senator, and I believe, also his wife, as I recall. (https://bearingarms.com/tomknighton/2025/06/24/author-stephen-king-spins-anti-gun-fiction-in- minnesota-assassination-n1229039) But one of the most infamous anti-gunners, known as Stephen Page – 7 – of 11 King, decided to go on X and to post about calling Vance Boelter, the shooter, is clearly as nutty as a fruitcake. The real culprit is the gun he used. Evan Nappen 27:02 Of course, it’s the gun. Oh, course. It’s not a maniac or a mentally deranged person or a criminal. It’s the gun. Oh, how simplistic. Teddy Nappen 27:41 Yeah, I love his line in it. Stephen said, “Nuts are gonna do nutty, violent things, and guns are easily obtainable.” So, just to take a step back there. Nuts are gonna do nutty, violent things. Well, if that’s true, why are you blaming the firearm? If you know full well that evil people are always going to find ways of doing evil acts, yet you still blame the firearm. What’s the one line? You played yourself. But. Evan Nappen 28:14 Actually, it’s more likely to blame stories that glorify maniac violence. That would probably have a little more influence, even, than a claim of guns. He should get out there and say, hey, my books are a problem. Tell me. I bet he had one, Teddy. What’s his famous book that you trace to just like every school shooting, too, or thereabouts. Like, what is it? Teddy Nappen 28:42 Yes, well, just to establish it. Stephen King is an established anti-gunner. He’s donated to the Coalition for a Safer Maine, as from the CBS article. (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/stephen-king-donates-to- maine-gun-control-coalition/) I love how he always has to say, I’m a gun owner, but I support gun control. He always says that he, like, just bought a pistol just to make say, have that like safeguard of saying, oh, I’m a gun owner. So, not only are you an elitist, but you’re also a hypocrite. But going from that is what you were leading to. For many of you, you may be familiar with Stephen King on many of his books, a lot of his horror, a lot of his movies. However, there is one book he has done his best to bury. That is the book known as “Rage”. This is from “the-line-up of banned Stephen King books. (https://the-line-up.com/banned-stephen-king-books) For those of you who may not be aware of “Rage”, he was so much ashamed of the book, he didn’t even use his name. He used a pen name – Richard Bachman. Evan Nappen 29:38 Well, that’s why wasn’t he. That’s maybe one of the reasons he changed his name, his pen name, from Bachman. Teddy Nappen 29:45 So, not only is he a coward, where he doesn’t even own up to the book. Though, the book is about this protagonist, known as Charlie Decker, a high school student who is reprimanded for his violent behavior. He is expelled, and then one thing leads to another. It leads a vivid portrayal of him going on a killing spree in the school. Page – 8 – of 11 Evan Nappen 30:05 A school shooting. Shooting up a school. Oh, my, and this was before there was any rash of school shootings that he wrote this. Teddy Nappen 30:16 Yes. Evan Nappen 30:16 And how many school shooters have mentioned anything about that book being an influence on them? Any of them? Have anyone? Teddy Nappen 30:24 Many, in fact. In fact, coming from Fox News, they actually cite to many of the school shooters. (https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/why-stephen-kings-school-shooter-book-rage-is-out-of-print- and-a-copy-costs-500) It goes all the way back to 1997 in the Heath High School in Kentucky, where 14 year old Michael Carneal brought three guns to school and opened fire on a group of students. And sure enough, the police later discovered a copy of “Rage” in his locker. It was the fourth school gun violence incident traced to Stephen King’s now out of print book. In 1996, 14-year-old Barry Dale Loukaitis killed his Algebra teacher and tried to take hostages, allegedly claiming he was inspired by the book “Rage” and modeled his life. Evan Nappen 30:47 He flat out admitted it. There you go. Teddy Nappen 30:50 In 1989, seventeen year old Dustin Pierce took a classroom of 11 students hostage, and he was trying to recreate the plot of “Rage”. After a nine hour standoff, he surrendered. This is just one of many of inspirations. By the way. Evan Nappen 31:24 This guy is not just a hypocrite. He’s one of the inspirations to the very shooters. It’s just outrageous. Teddy Nappen 31:34 Yes, and also, it wasn’t until the Newtown shooting that he officially pulled the book. And then I love his whole argument. I love how he said, like, he leans on, I’m a First Amendment advocate. Oh, you’re an advocate of the Constitution. Why not be an advocate of the Second Amendment as well? And actually go after and call out evil behavior, doing evil acts. Evan Nappen 31:57 Right. And then he might even be able to use that argument to say, look, I wrote a book. But there are nuts out there that try to make a horror fiction a reality. Just like there are nuts out there that use guns improperly. There are nuts out there that take on fiction of horror and make it into a false reality. Therefore, he could actually be consistent. But no, but no. He doesn’t do that. Page – 9 – of 11 Teddy Nappen 32:29 Yeah, and I always love how well they try to float the argument where they try to, like, draw that violence away. Like, no, no, books and movies don’t inspire violence. Guns. Guns create violence. Really? So, you’re saying nutty people. Where do they get the ideas from? Teddy Nappen 32:46 What was the one Stephen King book where it was the car running people over? Evan Nappen 32:46 Well, Teddy, wait now. Just yesterday, I saw a gun all by itself, run out of into the road, and just shoot somebody. All by itself. These guns are out of control. Someone’s got to do something about them. Because they just go all around shooting people by themselves. I don’t know how they got programmed. It’s amazing. Evan Nappen 33:11 Maybe that’s it. Maybe only in his books guns do that? Like Chris. What is Christine or Christie? Whatever. “Carrie”. Yeah, well. Teddy Nappen 33:21 It was a Misery where he has that, too. Evan Nappen 33:23 It was Misery. That was a different one that he did. You could ask James Khan about that one, right? But this is pretty crazy. But I guess if a gun is haunted and it’s a Stephen King haunted gun, that goes around shooting individuals, then number one, what he’s saying would be true. And number two, that would be the only ghost gun I would agree to ban. That haunted gun that goes around shooting individuals by themselves. That would be a true ghost gun that we should not have around. Because nothing’s worse than a gun independently going around shooting in Maine. Teddy Nappen 34:03 I will say we did have the haunted gun collection case. So, that was always. Evan Nappen 34:08 Well, that’s true. We did have that case, but they weren’t using the guns. The spirits were. They just, they were, yeah, that was crazy. That was one crazy case. Yeah, I hear you, man. Hey, I could do like a competition to Stephen King called “The Haunted Gun Collection” and write a whole thing about how that works, right? It could really expand on that theme, Teddy. Teddy Nappen 34:31 Also, if anyone is a collector of banned books, a copy of “Rage” does go for $500. So, if you want to find one. Page – 10 – of 11 Evan Nappen 34:39 Well, if you’re at flea markets, look for Richard Bachman’s “Rage”. But don’t let any children read it, though. We don’t want them getting bad ideas, I guess. But hey, you know, Teddy I want to tell you about this week’s GOFU, which is the Gun Owner Fuck Up. We love to talk about GOFUs, because these are expensive lessons that individuals have learned, and you get to learn for free. This week’s GOFU concerns knowing how much ammo you have on your person. And what I mean by that is this. If you are carrying your gun, you have magazines and ammo. Then if you wish to unload your gun, either to, let’s say, comply with a “sensitive place”, or maybe you need to travel and declare it going thru the airport and all these things, keep track of your amount of ammo. An easy way to do this is to make sure you carry your ammo and/or spare ammo, and the ammo that you’ve loaded your magazines with, in one of those MTM plastic ammo boxes or in the original factory box, in which each round fills a hole or a slot in the box. Evan Nappen 36:00 So, let’s say you get one of those 50 round MTM cases, and you’ve unloaded your gun. But you notice, hey, wait a minute, one of the slots doesn’t have a round in it? Now that’s a warning to you that you may have left around in a magazine or in the chamber of the gun or something like that. It ends up being a nice safeguard against forgetting a round when you think you may have unloaded. And this could become very important if you’re relying upon transporting or declaring your gun is unloaded, or any of those kind of things and suddenly it’s not because you missed a round. So, this confirms your ammo round count. We’ve had cases that came from individuals who unfortunately thought that a firearm did not contain ammunition, and next thing you know, they’re in a world of trouble. So, it’s a good tip when you store your ammo. Store it in a box or container that keeps the count of ammo readily visible. Evan Nappen 37:10 This is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens. Speaker 2 37:23 Gun Lawyer is a Counter Think Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state. Page – 11 – of 11 Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S3 E243_Transcript About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets. Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News. As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists. He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America. Email Evan Your Comments and Questions  [email protected] Join Evan’s InnerCircleHere’s your chance to join an elite group of the Savviest gun and knife owners in America.  Membership is totally FREE and Strictly CONFIDENTIAL.  Just enter your email to start receiving insider news, tips, and other valuable membership benefits.   Email (required) *First Name *Select list(s) to subscribe toInnerCircle Membership Yes, I would like to receive emails from Gun Lawyer Podcast. (You can unsubscribe anytime)Constant Contact Use. Please leave this field blank.var ajaxurl = "https://gun.lawyer/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php";

  Episode 243-Lock Up Gun Owners and Throw Away The Key Also Available OnSearchable Podcast Transcript Gun Lawyer — Episode 243 Transcript SUMMARY KEYWORDS New Jersey gun laws, pre-trial detention, gun owner Gulag, Senate Bill 3896, Senate Bill 1558, Senate Bill 3895, Senate Bill 3893, Senate Bill 3706, firearm possession, self-defense, reckless discharge, machine gun conversion, digital instructions, merchant codes, gun rights suppression. SPEAKERS Speaker 2, Teddy Nappen, Evan Nappen Evan Nappen 00:15 I’m Evan Nappen. Teddy Nappen 00:17 And I’m Teddy Nappen. Evan Nappen 00:18 and welcome to Gun Lawyer. Well, New Jersey has absolutely gone insane. Wait till I tell you about this. They intend to lock up every self-defender, everybody that carries a gun, even with a permit. They want to turn everybody, not only into criminals, but they want to lock up gun owners and throw away the key without any trial. It is absolutely nuts. Let’s get into it. Teddy Nappen 00:51 Sounds like another Tuesday in New Jersey, though. Evan Nappen 00:53 Well, I’ll tell you what, folks. This is something that on its face, many folks would not understand, but I’m going to make it. I’m going to clarify it. I’m going to make it so you will be able to understand the reality of what New Jersey is attempting to do to all of us. So, recently, a whole package of gun rights suppression laws have been pushed through the Senate, and these have been passed already by the House. They’re looking to fast track these bills to get them passed. Let me talk to you about these bills. Evan Nappen 01:43 Let’s start with the one that is the worst of the worst. They’re all terrible, but this one is just insanity plus. As many of you are aware, New Jersey has what I’ve often called and still call the Gun Owner Gulag. Now the Gun Owner Gulag is because New Jersey got rid of bail, cash bail, for crimes. In New Jersey, when you face a charge that is put on a warrant, as opposed to a summons, and remember just about every serious offense is put on a warrant, not a summons. With a summons, you’re simply given a notice to appear in court, and that’s it. But with a warrant, you’re arrested, and then you have to get released by a judge. The system for the release in New Jersey is called pre-trial detention, and it is now being abused to the max to destroy gun owners’ lives. Page – 1 – of 13 Evan Nappen 02:46 Let me explain what is going on. So, right now, as we speak, if you have any kind of firearm charge, you’re going to end up subject to the pre-trial detention system as to whether you get released. So, the way it works first is, if you are charged with a warrant charge, it doesn’t matter that you’re innocent, you’re going to be held for 48 hours. The prosecutor can decide anytime within that 48 hours, whether or not to seek pre-trial detention. Now, if the prosecutor chooses not to seek pre-trial detention, great! You’re going to be released, maybe with some conditions. There’s no more bail, and you’re going to be let go. However, when it comes to guns, they just about always, and now with these new laws, it’ll probably be always seek pre-trial detention. Now if they seek pre-trial detention, it means you’re going to have to have a hearing, and if the judge grants the State’s motion for pre-trial detention, you will be held until your trial. In jail with no bail. That’s how it works. Unless you get the matter somehow adjudicated prior to trial, where you end up pleading to something where you’re going to do time or whatever, or you get it adjudicated, because you win on some motion, months and months and months that you’ve been sitting there. But, short of that, you’re held without bail. So, the way it’s working right now is you have this pre-trial detention system. You have the 48 hours, and then you’re going to have the five days for the hearing. It’s critical that you have an attorney that knows what the hell they’re doing, because if you don’t get out, then you’re staying in. Okay? It’s bad. Evan Nappen 04:33 Now, currently, what happens is there is what’s called a PSA, Public Safety Assessment, that gets done. It’s two different assessments. One is whether you’re a flight risk. And that doesn’t mean whether you’re going to sprout wings and fly away. It means, are you going to come back to court? Now that was always the traditional reason for bail, to ensure that you come back to court. The second is a so- called, safety threat to the community, or any other label you want to give it. And when it comes to guns, all the anti-gun propaganda comes out about guns and the danger of guns, and why do you have a gun and everything under the sun that always makes us nauseous to hear when the antis go at it, and that’s what they’re currently using. We have to fight those things all the time and bring back reality to the situation. I’ve done uncountable numbers of these hearings to get people out. Evan Nappen 05:32 Well, my friends, New Jersey now has a law that they are pushing, and it looks like it’s going to be railroaded through. It is Senate Bill 3896. (https://pub.njleg.state.nj.us/Bills/2024/S4000/3896_R1.PDF) I’m going to call this Gulag One. They have two different bills affecting the Gulag. This bill will make it so that anybody that is subject to the Gulag system, that’s subject to that Public Safety Assessment, that is now heading to their pre-trial detention hearing, where they’re going to have to get out, that Public Safety Assessment either makes a recommendation of release or makes a recommendation of no release. This is extraordinarily influential on the judge as to whether you’re going to get out or not. This new bill says that the release recommendation of pretrial services program obtained using a risk assessment instrument, that’s the Public Safety Assessment where they have the two tests, they’re done on scales of one to five. You want the low numbers. Even if you get a one / one, meaning low flight risk and low danger. I’ll repeat it. The release recommendation of the pretrial services program obtained using a risk assessment instrument. Pretrial services shall, in other words, it’s mandatory. Shall recommend no release when a defendant has been charged with any crime involving the use or Page – 2 – of 13 possession of a firearm. Period. End of story. So, if you are charged with any firearm possession or use offense, they intend to hold you without bail for the duration, until you finally get your trial, or somehow resolve this prior to trial. You’re sitting in jail with no bail. Evan Nappen 07:51 Now let’s talk about what offenses are criminal offenses that involve the use or possession of a firearm? Well, number one is self-defense. If you defend yourself, you’re going to get charged with either assault, maybe even homicide, maybe aggravated assault, pointing your gun, or any of those things. And self- defense, what we call justification for the use of force, is a defense of law. An affirmative defense that we have to fight by way of a jury trial, many times, to prove, because the burden of proof is actually shifted to us to prove that you were lawful in your use of self-defense. So, any gun owner that is charged, even though they have an argument of self-defense, is going to get a recommendation of no release based on the charge of unlawful use of a firearm, even though that charge is fully defensible under self-defense. It won’t matter, folks. It will not matter when it comes to whether you’re getting released or not. Evan Nappen 09:13 It’s not just use, by the way. It’s also possession. So, if you’re charged with unlawful possession of a handgun, if you’re charged with unlawful possession of a so-called assault firearm, if you’re charged with any firearm offense of possessory nature, this applies as well. It also applies to those of us who carry and may end up being wrongly charged with being in a sensitive place. This is an effort disguised as public safety to try to destroy our right to carry and our right to defend ourselves by incarcerating and holding, without bail, law-abiding gun owners. It is outrageous. It is insanity, and the jails are going to be chock full of those placed in the Gulag. This puts the Gulag on steroids. It is nuts. Yes, go right, ahead Teddy. Teddy Nappen 10:28 So, just kind of thinking like it’s any charge to deal with firearms. Now, would that be, let’s say, for example, if a guy is driving and there’s a hollow point bullet. If he’s pulled over and they find the bullet there, oh, possession of a hollow point. Evan Nappen 10:43 Well, is a hollow point. We’d have to argue a hollow point is not a firearm charge, and we’d have to argue the same with a magazine. But who knows? The State will probably say, oh, no, it’s in the firearm laws, right? Controlling firearms and guns, but that’s not specifically a firearm charge. But your shotgun that you’re transporting while hunting and you’re relying upon the exemption, if you get stopped on the way while hunting and you get charged, even though you’re within the exemption. Well, that exemption is a defense that you were going hunting, but you’ll have to prove that later. Meanwhile, you’re going to be held without bail. If you’re transporting your gun to the range, you are charged, and you’re relying upon exemption again, a defense. Well, you’ll just have to wait in jail until your trial or until you get to prove that you were within an exemption, because that’s a defense as well. Any firearm charge. Page – 3 – of 13 Evan Nappen 11:39 And it gets worse, folks. It gets worse with the Gulag bill Two, which is S-3900. (https://pub.njleg.state.nj.us/Bills/2024/S4000/3900_R1.PDF) Gulag Two now allows the State to get an extra seven days to provide a firearm report. For anybody who’s charged with possession or use of a firearm, the State can get an extra seven days so they can get a ballistic analysis done. So, now, you’re charged, and you’re in the 48-hour Gulag. Then you go to the five days for your detention hearing. You then are going to be subject to another seven days before you even get your hearing to try to get out where there’s a presumption against, where there’s a recommendation against, you even being released. So, you’re in for a good two weeks before we get to fight with all the odds stacked against you. It’s nuts. The idea is incarcerate law-abiding gun owners. Suppress, suppress, suppress the gun owner. Suppress Second Amendment rights. Discourage carry. Discourage gun possession. Discourage self-defense, and do it in this manner of actual incarceration. It is horrible. I can’t emphasize it enough, and I fight these Gulag cases all the time. Teddy, you’ve seen how many times that I’ve done this. How many times? Fighting all the time like at least. At least every other day, we’re trying to get somebody out, and this is now to make it incredibly difficult to get somebody out. Teddy Nappen 13:40 My favorite part is when the judge is just nodding along to the prosecutor, like, yeah, yeah, stack all those charges. And then when you explain, actually, that’s completely legal, the judge goes like, what? What do you mean that’s legal? Like, not even knowing the very law, right? And he’s being accused of. Evan Nappen 13:57 Right. We just had one with a poor guy from Florida. Everything he was doing was legal in Florida, but it was not legal in New Jersey. I pointed out that where the guy is from, it’s all legal. Now, of course, this isn’t Florida. It’s New Jersey. The judge says that doesn’t have anything to do with this case. And I corrected the judge because it does. Because under the heartland guidelines, if a non-resident is in fact obeying the laws of his home state, then that can make all the difference in getting into a diversion program. And that was established with the Shaneen Allen case. So, of course, don’t expect them to know the law, but this is the kind of thing I deal with all the time. These two bills here are going to make it just unbearable. It’s already a horrible system, and this is what their intention is. Evan Nappen 14:53 Then we have Senate Bill 1558. (https://pub.njleg.state.nj.us/Bills/2024/S2000/1558_R1.PDF) Under this bill, it basically is the ghost gun, oooooooooh, bill that had passed long before where they made possession of unserialized gun, or manufacture of any of these, or 3D printing of any of these, etc, it was a second degree. This bill now raises the penalty to first degree. Now keep in mind, folks. A first degree crime in New Jersey is the same degree of murder, same degree. They’ve now raised this firearm offense to the equivalent of the same level that someone would be charged with murder, and it carries up to 20 years in State Prison for anyone who manufactures or possesses an unserialized gun, etc. Anybody who has a so-called covert or undetectable firearm. We talked about these things before. It’s bad enough at a second degree, and yes, you’re subject to the Gulag. Now, the penalties are being raised to the highest criminal level in New Jersey, a first degree. Page – 4 – of 13 Evan Nappen 16:19 Then we have Senate Bill 3895. (https://pub.njleg.state.nj.us/Bills/2024/S4000/3895_R1.PDF) This bill criminalizes reckless discharge. So, if you have an AD, an Accidental Discharge, and we’ve talked about this before, it is a fourth degree crime. And if you have that accident, it won’t matter. Now you’re charged with unlawful use of a firearm, and it’s the Gulag for your ass, okay? Just because you had an accidental discharge. It doesn’t matter. They’re going to criminalize the discharge and make it a fourth degree crime. You’re looking at a year and a half for that. It simply says, if you discharge a firearm unlawfully or without a lawful purpose, well, it was an accident. It wasn’t a lawful purpose, was it? You’re now looking at the Gulag and being turned into a felon. Being prosecuted for reckless discharge for that accidental discharge. You know, imagine if with any car accident anyone ever had, they got criminally charged. No matter what, and then held without bail on any car accident. No matter whether anybody was injured or not, how minor it was, no damage. It doesn’t matter. Every car accident, imagine that. Whatever, you know, little bumper tap. Oh, too bad. You’re now criminally charged. You’re now facing the Gulag because you didn’t hit that bumper with a lawful purpose, did you? So, there you go. They’re now going to do that to gun owners. Then we have. Go ahead, Teddy. Teddy Nappen 18:19 What if, as the example, like if you’re accused of it, but there was no discharge. It was just some loud noise or something crashing. But you’re accused. Evan Nappen 18:28 Well, if you’re charged, you’re charged. Your defenses will come later. Meanwhile, you’ll sit in the Gulag. Good luck with that. Teddy Nappen 18:36 They’ll sit in the Gulag with no accident, with not doing anything. Evan Nappen 18:40 Anybody sitting in the Gulag, nobody’s proven guilty of anything yet. You haven’t had a trial. You’re still presumed innocent, but you’re sitting in jail because New Jersey has so unbelievably effed up the traditional bail system by politicizing it on gun owners. This has to get out there, folks. You have to know this. You have to understand what we’re dealing with. This is nothing less than evil. It is pure evil, and it is suppression of gun owners, the Second Amendment, our rights of self-defense, of being a gun owner. It’s attacking all of us, and it’s outrageous. Evan Nappen 19:24 Senate Bill 3893 now criminalizes so-called machine gun conversion devices. (https://pub.njleg.state.nj.us/Bills/2024/S4000/3893_R1.PDF) Of course, they’re going to try to make anything that makes a gun fire faster fall under that, and they’re criminalizing the possession of the device. I’m sure they’re focused on so-called, you know, Glock switches, but it’s so broadly written that they’re going to go at us on anything like that. It says a machine gun conversion device. It means any device capable of converting a firearm into a machine gun. And, well, essentially, right? Remember how you that right? Because you get right there you go, Teddy, your right. And, you know, remember with ATF, where the guy actually registered a shoelace as a machine gun? Yeah. So, this is where they Page – 5 – of 13 can go to the extreme on any of these and make that allegation. And again, they lock you up in the Gulag because it’s a firearm offense, and we can deal with your defenses later as you rot in jail. How nice. Evan Nappen 20:32 In Senate Bill 3894, they’ve also criminalized the digital instructions to manufacture a firearm. (https://pub.njleg.state.nj.us/Bills/2024/S4000/3894_R1.PDF) They’re now criminalizing it as follows. “Firearm digital instructions” means digital instructions in the form of computer-aided design files or other code or instructions stored and displayed in electronic format as a digital mode that may be used to program a three-dimensional printer to manufacture or produce a firearm, firearm receiver, magazine, or firearm component.” Folks, if you can 3D print anything about guns, and all you have is the program to do it, you’re now going to be looking at a criminal charge of the following. Firearm digital instructions. A person who is not licensed or registered to manufacture firearms. If you’re not a licensed manufacturer of firearms and you possess firearm digital instructions, as I’ve just explained them to you, is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree. You’re looking at a year and a half in State Prison, and you’re looking at it as a firearm offense, because it’s about digital instruction for manufacturing firearms and the intent to manufacture a firearm, though, arguably, part of this would be something that you can happily try to win at your jury trial. Good luck with that. Evan Nappen 22:23 And finally, Senate Bill 3706 is requiring merchant codes for purchase of firearms and ammunition. (https://pub.njleg.state.nj.us/Bills/2024/S4000/3706_R1.PDF) And what it means is that any of these credit card companies, or debit card companies, or any of these merchants that use these methods, the payment card network, must create merchant categories for firearms and ammunition businesses. They have to assign these codes so that you can be tracked as to what you’re buying from any dealer in New Jersey. So, folks, the answer to that is real simple. If you buy a gun or you buy ammo, you better pay cash. Because they’re recording and making a record of any of these purchases again to continue the clamp down and the suppression of gun owners, of Second Amendment rights, of our ability to exercise our Constitutional rights. It’s evil personified. It is really bad. Evan Nappen 23:43 You need to contact your legislature and your senators and your reps and tell them, do not pass this. You also need to belong to the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. They have a full-time paid lobbyist trying to fight this garbage. We have an uphill fight, and we need every gun owner to be part of the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. There’s power in numbers. We have to stay unified. Please make sure you join ANJRPC.org The Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. Make sure you’re a member. We have to stay unified. We’re going to be fighting this, not only in the legislature, but also in the courts. It’s critical that you do your part and fight to stop this insanity. The Association is the premier gun rights organization of New Jersey and is doing that very thing. Evan Nappen 24:45 These are very serious problems. This is real, folks. They really do this to gun owners. I fight all the time for gun owners. This isn’t pie in the sky. This is not an extrapolation or just speculation of what might happen. Folks, this is really happening, and they’re going to make it as bad as I’m telling you. Page – 6 – of 13 This is going to enhance a system that is already outrageous to put it beyond belief. As a gun owner in New Jersey, you are in danger, nothing short of that. You are in danger from what the legislature and the Democrats in control and Murphy are doing to us. It is just that bad, and it’s not an exaggeration. Beware. Join the Association and join the fight. Evan Nappen 25:46 Let me also tell you about our good friends at WeShoot. Now, WeShoot is an indoor range. They have great training, and they have great programs. They also have a great pro shop. As a matter of fact, they’re offering some great specials on firearms, including the Samurai “Other”, which is black with gold accents. It’s a beautiful gun. An AR platform, and it blends tactical function with a luxury finish. Smooth, sleek and ready for battle. They also are selling the Masada Slim Elite. It’s optics ready and has an upgraded trigger. It’s ultra slim, super comfortable for carry, and it’s everything you love about IWI. That’s Israeli Weapons Industries. And it is the Masada, refined and enhanced. They also have the Beretta M9A4, you know, the traditional Beretta. The M9, but this one is a military classic that’s been reimagined with modern upgrades, including a threaded barrel, decocker, and is optics ready. It is the classic with all the great upgrades. WeShoot is also celebrating five years of Juliana, that’s the very first WeShoot girl, representing with elegance, skill, and that fierce 2A spirit. Check out their website at weshootusa.com. You can check out Juliana there. And let’s give a shout out to Curtis S., whose review this week reminded us why WeShoot does what they do. Great review from Curtis S. Check out WeShoot at weshootusa.com. That’s their website. It’s a great range. You can get the training you need there. You can get your CCARE certificate to get your carry permit. You can get great training and have a great experience. It’s a great resource. They’re conveniently located right in Lakewood, New Jersey, right off the Parkway there. That’s where Teddy and I both shoot. Evan Nappen 27:59 Let me also take a moment now to shamelessly promote my book, New Jersey Gun Law. It’s the Bible of Jersey gun law. And if you get the book, which I highly suggest, make sure you scan the QR code on the front cover. Make sure you’re subscribed for free to my subscriber base, which is private. I will be sending out email updates when these atrocities, if they become law, you’ll know, because I’ll do the updates. You will get updates for free. You’re going to want to know what to watch out for. It’s one of the ways you can protect yourself and try to stay out of the Gulag. It’s crazy in New Jersey, and my book is there to try to help you avoid those problems and remain law-abiding and not a victim of New Jersey’s gun laws and gun rights suppression. So, Teddy, what do you have for us today in Press Checks? Teddy Nappen 29:01 You know, Press Checks are always free, and my god. Just taking a deep breath from that bill, like utter insanity. And it also kind of reminds us that we have to keep an eye on what the anti-gunners are doing, because New Jersey is the petri dish where they test all their insanity. Evan Nappen 29:27 You’re absolutely right, and that’s what’s so important here. You’re right. They want to make this country wide. Don’t be fooled. That’s exactly what they want to do. Page – 7 – of 13 Teddy Nappen 29:36 Correct. And one thing I always make a point in my segment to always look at the other anti-gunners of what they’re attempting. As you may know, the Democrats decided to spend $20 million on trying to reach Gen Z men because they lost them heavily in the last election. And it’s this. I think it’s called a STAM’s program, like Speaking To Adolescent Men. Yeah. So, TheTrace, apparently, the anti-gunners decided, you know what? That’s a good idea. Let’s reach Gen Z men. How do we do that? Well, that’s obvious. Through gamers and online streamers. This is from TheTrace. (https://www.thetrace.org/2025/04/video-game-gun-safety-streamer-gen-z/) “Off the Virtual Battlefield, Gamers Are Teaching Gen Z About the Real-World Risks of Guns” The gun violence prevention, Evan Nappen 30:35 Oh, like when the aliens and the Jello monsters attack from outer space, and that’s when you absolutely better use the 9 mm because it performs better in Jello than a .45, right? Teddy Nappen 30:36 Yeah, exactly. Evan Nappen 30:42 I guess. Something like that. But, yeah, Teddy Nappen 30:49 The gun violence prevention organization known as Project Unloaded is teaming up with video game streamers. So, they go on like Twitch platforms, whatever platform, and play video games. So, imagine a video where, you know, they’re playing, like, Call of Duty, a big shoot em up, a lot of blood, killing people. Evan Nappen 31:10 Well, you’ve played a lot of Call of Duty, right? You’re very familiar with that. Teddy Nappen 31:13 Yeah. And imagine then all of a sudden they do a pause, we’re going to talk about gun violence. Evan Nappen 31:19 Oh no, they’re really going to interrupt the game with that? Teddy Nappen 31:23 Yeah, they’re going to. Evan Nappen 31:24 That’s going to screw the whole thing up. Who wants that? Who wants propagandize when you’re just trying to enjoy your video game? That’s horrible. Page – 8 – of 13 Teddy Nappen 31:31 And it’s so. I love this whole thing that they try to push where they’re talking about how nearly a third of young people, including half of young men, said video games influence their perspective on guns. They have created the leave guns in the game, a new initiative, to campaign against the gun violence prevention Group. Teaming up with Gen Z gaming content creators. Evan Nappen 32:03 I’m sure this will be tremendously successful, just like every other 80/20 issue the Democrats seem to adopt. Teddy Nappen 32:10 Yes, because that’s how to do it. Evan Nappen 32:12 I’m sure every gamer is going to love their game being interrupted with that garbage. Teddy Nappen 32:18 Yes, and I will point out there’s one thing I thought was hilarious. That just sticks with me, though, ultimately, from the article. Our research shows that gaming is a key way young people learn about guns, and the message that most people have learned about guns through video games, and other sources, too, is that they are safer than they actually are. That is. Evan Nappen 32:42 Guns are safer than they actually are is what you learn blasting aliens and shoot them ups and all that. That’s what you learn from that. Is that what they actually think? Teddy Nappen 32:53 Yeah, yeah. And it’s their whole push, because they’re trying to target modern. They think there’s a heavy influence of modern gaming on the gun violence epidemic in our culture. Evan Nappen 33:05 Well, Teddy, tell me, did your research uncover anything about how long we’ve had games involving fake guns, toy guns, all that? Teddy Nappen 33:17 Well, thank you for plugging that. I did a little bit of research, and, you know, it goes back to 1887. Evan Nappen 33:24 Oh, wait a minute. You mean young males have been influenced and were made since 1887. Wow. Well, there wasn’t video then. So, what did they do? What was it? Teddy Nappen 33:34 So, this is from an article done by the allincolorforaquarter.blogspot.com. (https://allincolorforaquarter.blogspot.com/2015/05/the-first-light-gun-game.html?m=1)And it talked Page – 9 – of 13 about the light gun games, where the automatic pleasure, it was a book where the first coin-operated gun game, you know, the automatic shooter. Evan Nappen 33:41 Like an arcade game from way back. Teddy Nappen 33:53 It would set up where you could shoot an air rifle. You put in the coin, and it have a whole mechanism, sets a little box, and you could shoot the targets. Evan Nappen 34:01 Sounds cool. Teddy Nappen 34:02 You know, the early developments of games. And quite frankly, the level of insanity doesn’t even stop there. Now, you know, with me growing up, where I grew up, and I loved playing Halo. Evan Nappen 34:18 Yeah, you were great. You’re very skilled. Teddy Nappen 34:21 It was the one game I loved. I always loved playing it, you know. Get in there and kill the crazy aliens trying to wipe out humanity. You know, shoot them with everything you got. But Evan Nappen 34:30 And sometimes you used alien weapons. It must have taught you that alien weapons were safe, too, huh? I guess you learned that. Teddy Nappen 34:38 Aliens were taking down the energy shields. But, anyways, this is what also pisses me off. What destroyed Halo, the whole gaming industry, one of their lead developers of the game. This from Smash JT. (https://www.smashjt.com/post/halo-dev-can-t-tell-the-difference-between-real-life-video-games) They wrote a whole article on it. One of the head developers of the new Halo game. He quote, I honestly don’t think I can work on a game that glorifies or fantasizes modern guns, Call of Duty, Battlefield, etc. I’ve had moments of struggle with Halo, but the weapons Evan Nappen 35:04 Where do they find these people? Teddy Nappen 35:11 It’s just, you know, Silicon Valley or whatever. Page – 10 – of 13 Evan Nappen 35:14 Oh, my God. But I remember when you would play Halo, you would have modern firearms and their alien weapons. There was a whole array of all kinds of cool stuff that you would battle with, right? Teddy Nappen 35:27 You know, it’s nothing like taking a six gauge pump action shotgun. Evan Nappen 35:32 A six gauge. Teddy Nappen 35:34 I know it’s pretty funny. I’m like, dear God, that would break your shoulder. But, okay, there’s super soldier. Evan Nappen 35:40 I guess they could handle the six gauge, huh? But did they duck hunt with that, too? No. Duck Hunt was another video game where you shot ducks. Yeah, right, yeah. You weren’t allowed to use a six gauge. Teddy Nappen 35:50 Yeah. But funny enough. Duck Hunt off the NES, you could go in and shoot. I mean, these have existed all. Castle Wolfenstein, 1981. Evan Nappen 35:52 I used to play that even. I liked that when I was. That was fun. You were killing Nazis. What’s wrong with that? Teddy Nappen 36:06 I know, killing Nazis. Killing beings from hell, like. Evan Nappen 36:09 Right. It was great. Teddy Nappen 36:11 And it’s, quite frankly, stupid. Because they’re trying to influence. By the way, from gurugamer.com, the Top 10 Most largest player-based games in the world. Seven out of the 10 of them are shooters. They are wasting their time trying to combat the gun violence epidemic in video games. Evan Nappen 36:30 You know, it’s so stupid. At one point, they claimed that comic books caused this, and they are always looking for everything and anything except what really matters. It begins with family, fathers, responsibility. You know, those things. But the left destroys that stuff. They don’t want to see that, you know. So, they just look for all these other outlets and excuses and just it was changing the entire focus to whatever their current ox is that they need to gore. You know, they’re just outrageous. Page – 11 – of 13 Teddy Nappen 37:07 What was really funny is that the article from TheTrace threaded the needle so hard trying to say, look, we’re not saying video games cause violence, at least. Evan Nappen 37:18 Oh, of course. No, no, that’s not what they’re saying. Teddy Nappen 37:22 We are saying that we don’t want video games to promote gun violence. Evan Nappen 37:26 Right. That it will promote guns. They promote guns. And I’m like, but it’s not about any kind of restriction on freedom of speech or just entertainment. And God forbid we actually look at movies too. Especially with all the left wing anti-gun actors that star in movies that wrongly use guns all the time. But don’t. I’ll tell you, I’ve often said with the way there are warnings before movies where they warn you about profanity, or they warn you about smoking, or they warn you about nudity. How about a warning that says this movie portrays the unsafe and improper use of firearms? Why don’t you put that in front of all your damn movies? I’m not saying don’t make the movies, but suddenly everyone would see how many of these shows promote the unsafe and unlawful use of firearms. That’s what’s actually being done. But instead, they’re trying to twist it into a focus of young males, and somehow it’s a man problem and a male problem. If they could even define what one is, of course. And it has to do with the actual gaming. I mean, it’s unreal. People that fall for it, you got to be pretty stupid, and they are. Teddy Nappen 39:02 It’s pretty funny, because I remember. Do you remember the demand, a plan, big commercial 12 years ago, where they got all these Hollywood actors, you know, I guess, like, whatever stupid gun control, Evan Nappen 39:18 Right. Whatever suppression they were heralding at the moment. Teddy Nappen 39:22 Someone cut the video to, whenever an actor spoke, it cut to them misusing firearms. Can look it up. Evan Nappen 39:31 Right. That’s what they do. That’s what they do all the time. And not only do they misuse it, yeah, the people that produce these movies add in gun sounds that aren’t there. I love when safeties are being clicked off on Glocks. I love how every shotgun is being racked, even though it’s not being racked. How every gun clatters and clacks and cocks even though it’s not necessary. And by the way, you’re going into it without rounds in your chambers anyway? And then I’ve seen the craziest, dumbest sound effects that are just put in, obviously by sound effect people that have no clue how firearms work. And every time you hear it, you just go, what? What was that? I mean, it’s nuts. They just think it enhances the movie, but it really takes away. Page – 12 – of 13 Teddy Nappen 40:22 Fortunately, the foley artist is contractually obligated to make stupid sound effects for guns. Evan Nappen 40:28 I guess that’s what the rule is. That’s pretty funny. Well, Teddy, I appreciate your Press Checks today. Let’s talk about our favorite segment, which is the GOFU, and that’s the Gun Owner Fuck Up. We talk about GOFUs because these are expensive mistakes gun owners make that you get to learn for free. So, you don’t make them. And this week’s GOFU, again, these are actual cases. These are actual people that have committed these problems. Let me just summarize it. Real simple. Folks, don’t bring your guns to Canada. Okay, it’s real simple. At the border, if you have your handgun from America, you’re in trouble. If you have a firearm that Canada regulates and prohibits, you’re in trouble. Keep in mind, even if you’re bringing your hunting gun into Canada. Remember, your rifle can’t be less than 18 inches. So, if you have a 16 and a half inch carbine, you’re in trouble. Don’t bring your guns to Canada. Evan Nappen 41:31 I wouldn’t even hunt in Canada. I used to. I used to love it. I used to love it. But their gun laws are terrible, and what happens to gun owners is horrible. I remember one time that I was on a bear hunt in Canada, and this is back a number of years. We were waiting for one of the hunters to get there, and he was hours late. He finally pulls up in his truck, and he had a license plate that he was a retired Pennsylvania State Trooper. Well, he said that at the border, when they saw his retired Pennsylvania State Trooper plate, they tore his car apart for three hours looking for his handgun that they knew he must have, which, by the way, he didn’t have. And think about this. This is a retired law enforcement officer, and you’re that concerned about that guy who might have a handgun? Yeah, that’s Canada in a nutshell. So, listen, don’t bring your guns to Canada. Canada does not recognize any carry permit from America at all. And if you got across through Canada, because you’re going to Alaska, you can’t ride through Canada with your guns. You can’t go into Canada with a firearm, even if you’re licensed out of the U.S. So, folks, I know this seems basic, but I get these calls and I get these cases. So, don’t be a GOFU. Evan Nappen 43:02 This is Evan and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens. And not only that, they incarcerate honest citizens. Speaker 2 43:17 Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state. Page – 13 – of 13 Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S3 E243_Transcript About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets. Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News. As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists. He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America. 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Episode 242- Is Now the time to buy Ammo? Also Available OnSearchable Podcast Transcript SUMMARY KEYWORDS Englishtown, permit fees, Second Amendment, New Jersey, gun lawyer, ammunition prices, ghost guns, gunsmithing, wellness check, gun confiscation, holster requirements, gun rights, NRA, gun legislation, firearm safety. SPEAKERS Speaker 2, Evan Nappen, Teddy Nappen EvanNappen 00:15 I’m Evan Nappen. Teddy Nappen 00:17 And I’m Teddy Nappen. EvanNappen 00:18 And welcome to Gun Lawyer. So, I came across a really interesting article about something that took place in Englishtown, New Jersey. And this article is done by our dear friend, John Petrolino for BearingArms, and you’ll be able to find it there. (https://bearingarms.com/john-petrolino/2025/06/12/nj- town-resolves-that-excessive-permitting-fees-are-unconstitutional-n1228911) This is really an amazing thing, because I’ve never, never, seen this before. Teddy Nappen 00:52 Flea market opening up? EvanNappen 00:53 No, well, the Englishtown flea market is still there, but I would not recommend it. It has changed tremendously from the old days when I used to go every weekend with my dad when I was a kid. As my father said, it became more and more of less and less, and I think that’s what you’re seeing now. The most incredible selection of less. So, anyway, Englishtown, though, the town of Englishtown, did something extraordinary. They actually took action to reduce the excessive permitting fees that are unconstitutional that New Jersey pushed through by Murphy. As you may know, when you apply for your carry permit in New Jersey, there’s a $200 fee for getting a permit to exercise your Constitutional right. And that is just outrageous. If we charged such a thing to vote, it would be a poll tax and would be unconstitutional. But somehow, an excessive $200 fee is fine and dandy, because, well, you know, it’s just the Second Amendment, right? EvanNappen 02:22 So, this article goes on to explain that what Englishtown did, what the mayor, who deserves tremendous credit, and the town council, tremendous credit. Mayor Daniel Francisco and his council Page – 1 – of 10 passed a resolution, and I’ll read you what it says. It’s very short and directly to the point. Whereas, pursuant to N.J.S.A. 2C:58-4, applicants for permits to carry a handgun are required to pay an application fee in the amount of $200 of which $150 is retained by the municipality, and $50 is forward to the Superintendent of State Police. Whereas, the Borough of Englishtown recognizes that the statutory fee structure imposes financial burdens on applicants and wishes to ease that burden for residents by offering refunds of the Borough’s retained portion of the application fee, and whereas, the Borough has determined that is in the public interest to establish an administrative process for refunding $150 municipal share of the application fee upon appropriate documentation. Look at that. This town will refund its applicants $150 of the excessive fees that Murphy put through so that to exercise your Second Amendment right in Englishtown, to defend yourself and your loved ones, is only a $50 permit. A $50 fee that goes to the State Police. Wouldn’t it be nice to see the State Police refund their fee as well. But somehow, I don’t think we’re going to see that, but this is an excellent move. EvanNappen 04:29 And, man, I’d love to see town after town in New Jersey create the refund practice that Englishtown has done. This should be something that everyone in your town should talk to your officials about refunding it, about not accepting the $150 fee. Apparently it passed four to one. And as Mayor Francisco says, this is about his council passing it, they should be applauded loudly for their fortitude and conviction. And I second that as well. Also, I’d like to point out that assisting in getting this through was, of course, many individuals in New Jersey that are active. National Second Amendment groups also showed up, including Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms and the Second Amendment Foundation. Also, the New Jersey Firearms Owners Syndicate had great testimony by Joseph LoPorto and that made a major impact as well. The Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs and the NRA were there, too. All showing their support. There was great unity here, and seeing this new movement that can be done town by town. So, great job to everyone who worked hard to see that go through, particularly their Mayor Francisco, who is a stand up guy for our rights. Teddy Nappen 06:39 Actually, I’m just kind of curious. It seems like Englishtown is an extremely pro-gun town, for New Jersey of all places. But in your experience and time, it’s kind of like unbreakable, where you have the one guy who’s completely like unbreakable. You have the glass. Who’s the most anti-gun town? The one place is like, oh, God, this is bad. EvanNappen 07:03 Well, I can tell you that I’ve seen, we’ve seen, many towns that are very bad, very anti-Second Amendment rights. They take their sweet time to the point of delaying and delaying and delaying. And I’ve also seen them act very harshly with applications creating, in effect, GOFUs. One of the towns was Jackson, by the way, Jackson, New Jersey. That literally, when somebody made an error on the application where they technically may have given the wrong answer, but really had misunderstanding which occurs, which occurs, and it’s arguably a GOFU, of course, to write the wrong answer, but we’ve had any number of criminal prosecutions for things that most of the towns in New Jersey would not criminally prosecute over an incorrect answer that was just an honest mistake on a gun application. Yet, we are representing any number of folks that got criminally charged out of there. So, they’re very, very harsh. Very harsh. You could, you know, take a view that, hey, you shouldn’t have given the wrong Page – 2 – of 10 answer on the application. But, you know, when we see the big picture, we want to see discretion. Well, the discretion when someone’s trying to exercise what is a Constitutional right? Maybe those things should be considerations, but apparently, not there. Given the number of these cases that I’ve seen, and we have other towns that are troublesome, too, that delay. And sure, many of the listeners are familiar with their own town. But instead of, you know, criticizing these towns, which we’re always happy to point out, but it’s nice to actually see a town doing the right thing and standing up for the Second Amendment. And so that is refreshing, to say the least. EvanNappen 09:18 Now, one of the things that we were wondering about, and something that you may be wondering about. Is now a good time to stock up on ammunition? And interestingly, there was an article in ZeroHedge, which often is focused on financial and other things, right? But ZeroHedge actually had an article called “Charts Signal: Time to Reload”. (https://www.zerohedge.com/commodities/charts-signal- time-reload) This is by Tyler Durden, and Tyler points out, and it’s something that I think listeners here might not normally come upon is, how does the price of ammo? How is that going in terms of up and down? You might be able to talk about gas prices and other things, about whether it’s more or less. Yet, we can also do the same with ammunition. And here’s what’s really interesting. The author points out that during COVID, there was top dollar for 9 mm and .223. Yet, now today, the market has swung in the opposite direction. Over supply has pushed ammo prices back to early pandemic levels. And this is pretty cool. He raises the question, will these low prices be sustained? Of course, you know, in that consideration is possible trade wars and tariffs and uncertainty on primers and the materials needed to get them. EvanNappen 11:17 In the article, he points out, with price comparison and graphs, of pricing from 2020 to 2025, and you can see just on 9 mm how high the price got in right there. From December 2020 to February 2021, the price per round was hitting right under eight cents per round. And now, the chart shows this decline down to what is two, believe it or not. Well, and this is, though, the graphing. I shouldn’t say cents. It’s about pricing. So, it’s gone from 8.8 to .2. So, there’s a significant dropping. You can see the chart here. There was not a price in terms of dollars and cents. It’s the price per round. And I highly encourage you to look at the graphs. And the same, if you look at .223, which was up above, almost 1.1, 1.1 almost 1.2 down now to .4, currently .4. Almost two thirds drop in price. Twenty-two, .22 long rifle available, and there was a drop, but not significantly. It is still, though, widely available. So, availability is out there. Twelve 12 gauge, again, a big curve going down from almost 7.5 all the way down to .3 or lower. 308, spiking at what is 1.5 going down to .7, you know, virtually cut in half. So, these are interesting things to look at in terms of ammo pricing. Now, although we still might say it’s not cheap, but it is substantially cheaper. And given what’s going on in the world and what may happen, because, you know, guns without ammo aren’t really useful. You may want to think about reloading now. EvanNappen 14:01 If you are going to be reloading, you’re going to need a place to shoot. And I would highly recommend WeShoot in Lakewood. New Jersey. WeShoot is an indoor range. They are great folks. That’s where both Teddy and I go to shoot. Teddy, you had a comment prior. What were you going to say? Page – 3 – of 10 Teddy Nappen 14:23 I was going to, well, I was going to say, Welcome to Mad Bullet. But I also was going to point out. I remember, I think it was under Obama in ’08, they were selling the .22s that were in those sealed containers or so? EvanNappen 14:42 Yeah, those were cool. They were, like, nitrogen sealed containers, yeah? Nitrogen sealed to keep them super fresh. I haven’t seen them in a while. I haven’t seen them again. Teddy Nappen 14:53 But I remember your telling me those were one heck of an investment, just along the line. EvanNappen 14:59 Well, especially when at one point, .22s did go through the roof, when there was a shortage, a major shortage. So, look, that’s why you want to stock up. And then, of course, if you want to shoot, we gotta get back to, get back to the range, man. You’ve got to get to the range. Gotta go and shoot and stay in tune. And Teddy, as you and I often do, WeShoot is a great place to go. They offer certificates for getting your carry. As a matter of fact, Teddy and I were just talking about how folks need to make sure that your certificate does not expire if you’re going to reapply. Because they’re good for two years, but that’s it. If you need to renew, you don’t want to lose your ability to have your New Jersey carry be active with your ability to get a renewal. So, make sure that you have your current CCARE and that it is within that two-year period. If you need to get that course again, WeShoot offers it. They also have a great pro shop, and they have a fantastic staff. We love it there, and I’m sure you will, too. And you can go to weshootusa.com for more information. Check out their website. weshootusa.com. EvanNappen 16:23 Additionally, the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs, which is out there fighting for our rights and helping to make a difference across the board. We’re proud to be have Association as one of the sponsors of our show. They are the premier gun rights group for New Jersey and the NRA affiliate for the state of New Jersey. So, it’s important that you belong. It doesn’t mean you shouldn’t belong to other organizations as well. You should belong to as many as you can, but make sure you belong to the Association of New Jersey Rifle &Pistol Clubs, anjrpc.org. By joining this group and other groups for that matter, there is power in numbers, and the numbers make a difference. It’s how we get influence, and we have very important things coming up. Not only fights for legislation, but fights for who the next Governor is going to be, and fights taking place in court. All kinds of things where the eternal vigilance is required. The way to help manage that so you know that you’re part of the solution is to belong to your NRA state affiliate, the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. To join, simply go to anjrpc.org, anjrpc.org, and sign up today. Be part of the solution, and you’ll be proud that you are. EvanNappen 18:01 This is the time when I shamelessly plug my book New Jersey Gun Law. It’s the Bible of New Jersey gun law. It is your indispensable guidebook to surviving in New Jersey as a gun owner. Everyone that has it, loves it, and it is the key resource that you will go back to over and over again. It’s 120 topics, all in a question-and-answer format. We will email you updates and let you know. When you get your Page – 4 – of 10 book, scan the QR code right on the front and join for free to our private subscriber base. I’ll send you out email alerts to any new changes, and you get to access the archives and other updates that are already there, including the 2025 Comprehensive Update that is fully updated for 2025. There is a standalone chapter of “sensitive places”, where you can and can’t carry. All important things that you need to know. So, go to EvanNappen.com, that’s my website, EvanNappen.com. You’ll see the big orange book there,. Click it and make sure you get your copy today. Hey, Teddy, you have Press Checks. And as we know, Press Checks are free. What interesting Press Checks do you have for us? Teddy Nappen 19:32 So, I always find it important to keep an eye on the anti-gunners and the gun rights suppressors, because you can always see where their focus is on. I know we touched on it prior from TheTrace where the Supreme Court upheld the Biden administration rule targeting unserialized, untraceable ghost guns from the article allowing federal authorities to regulate the sales of kits and parts used to assemble the weapons. (https://www.thetrace.org/2025/03/ghost-gun-kits-supreme-court-atf-biden/) By the way, if you ever get a Supreme Court case and the dissenting opinion is by (Clarence) Thomas and (Samuel) Alito, you know you’re in the wrong. Just saying. As they were arguing about the federal law allows ATF to regulate not only fully functioning firearms, but also weapons that are designated to function like guns or can easily convert them. And they then lead to how the ATF for tracing a surge from 2017 of 1,600 to more than 27,000 in 2023, of the available figures of the ghost guns. Teddy Nappen 20:58 And this got me thinking, because you always talk about how Americans have been building guns since the founding of our country. Well, I wanted to touch on that and kind of think along those lines. What was it like living out in the colonial times? Like, if you needed a firearm, what was the idea of having to build your guns? EvanNappen 21:23 You ordered it off Amazon. Teddy Nappen 21:24 Well, of course. EvanNappen 21:25 There were no gun laws then. Teddy Nappen 21:27 Yes, of course. EvanNappen 21:27 So, what did you discover about the colonial and pre-colonial days of guns? Teddy Nappen 21:36 Well, to kind of start things off from the Colorado School of Gunsmithing. (https://schooloftrades.edu/the-history-of-gunsmithing/) By the way, this goes back to the very Page – 5 – of 10 beginning of the gunsmithing trade, to the 12th century in China, where the right of firearm, which was just a stick with a barrel with a central boom stick. Then it moved over to Europe, and then Italy, where you had the early craftsmanship of barrels. Then in the Middle Ages, you actually saw the professionalism, which made, I love the idea of the gunsmithing guilds of the olden days, where you had, EvanNappen 22:17 But these were individuals building guns. Teddy Nappen 22:20 Yeah, right. Imagine that. And it actually was smart. You had the gunsmithing guilds actually beginning to form, particularly in Germany, where the first was grouped in 1463. The idea was they would have these gunsmiths near the armory, near places that are the towns where you could maintain all the firearms for them. And I think it was Henry the VIII who began asking leading gunsmiths to come to London to keep up the arsenals. So, you kind of see where the early craftsmanship, where there was no, oh, how could they allow such a thing of firearms? No, it’s pretty common for people to be building guns, such as was the trade. EvanNappen 23:08 And encouraged. Teddy Nappen 23:10 Yeah. And then we get to America, where the early stages, and I thought this was kind of cool. There’s a great article written up called, “Early American Gunsmithing: A Family Affair”. (https://www.claytoncramer.com/popular/GunmakingAFamilyAffair.html) Gunsmithing was very much like you kept it in the family, and it was a passed on trade. You essentially had to marry into gunsmithing at times where they would find. EvanNappen 23:39 Well, it was a trade, right? It was a trade. So, yeah. Teddy Nappen 23:43 Yeah, and just to give you a perspective. The Pennsylvania gunsmith, John Henry, where he would be building and buying parts for various assembly for gun locks and completing guns and building them up. They also had other early makers, they seem to have traced. They found Thomas Nash who settled in New Haven in 1640. He was not only a gunsmith, but also the colony armorer. He was ordered to keep the town muskets in his hands and to look to after them that they always been in good order and fit of service. EvanNappen 24:24 That’s a good job to have. Teddy Nappen 24:25 Page – 6 – of 10 I know, right? Make sure everyone’s armed. And he passed this down to his son. His first son, John Nash, became the first expert witness of firearm liability suit in 1645. EvanNappen 24:41 Really? So, he was one of the first experts. Teddy Nappen 24:43 Yeah, and you kind of see. Then, of course, the Hawken family. EvanNappen 24:43 Oh, yeah! Teddy Nappen 24:45 It included 15 gunsmiths. That’s one hell of a family. EvanNappen 24:57 Yeah, and Robert Redford still had trouble getting a .50 cal one, didn’t he? Teddy Nappen 25:02 I know. He found it on a frozen man who he fulfilled the last will and testament. EvanNappen 25:07 Heh, that was a good deal. That was a good deal. You can’t beat finding the gun for free, frozen in the woods. Teddy Nappen 25:15 Yeah, and it was very interesting where you see the early development of the gunsmithing trade. These guys built up such a reputation that later they had a point of where they would like start recruiting. And then they started ordering more and more. Like, hey, this guy’s gunsmithing, place an order. You got to get yourself a Hawken. And what later would lead to. I found from actually the Library of Congress. I highly recommend checking out these sources, because you’ve got to read these articles that they preserved in the Library of Congress. (https://guides.loc.gov/american-firearms/gunmakers/) They actually show the early developments and all these historical citations of early gunsmiths. Particularly, Henry Derringer, who began his business in Philadelphia. (https://guides.loc.gov/american- firearms/gunmakers/deringer) By 1810 he was producing flintlock rifles and government contracted muskets. And then, I love Remington. EvanNappen 26:16 Of course, he made the famous pistol that was used by John Wilkes Booth to kill Lincoln, right? EvanNappen 26:26 But it’s not the gun, it’s the person. And they were popular because they were pocket pistols that could be used for defense. And nowadays the name Derringer becomes synonymous with that type of handgun, but he was an individual maker, as you’re pointing out. All these folks were individual makers, Page – 7 – of 10 manufacturing, and this is about as long lasting an American tradition as there is. Yet, now, they want to close down the ability for any individual to make a gun. It can only be a licensed corporation. Well, you know, the founding fathers wouldn’t have stood for that, and throughout most of American time, it would not have been acceptable. Yet here, somehow, today, they think they can just mandate that only a licensed corporation, you know, where they’re exerting the state and governmental control over what is necessary for the exercise of a Constitutional right. It’s pretty outrageous when you boil it down in that way, don’t you think? Teddy Nappen 26:26 One might say. Teddy Nappen 27:51 It actually serves a very important purpose to have many of these gunsmiths and traders currently. Just look toward George Washington, who established Springfield Armory. And do you know what they did? They went around the country recruiting gunsmiths who helped build up the armory. So, we should encourage and have more gunsmithing across the country, because we need them. The fact of the matter, like, if there ever comes a time we need more manufacturing and the ability for people to repair and have milling machines and ability. EvanNappen 28:28 Guns keep us free, and our founding fathers knew it. But somehow, primarily the Democrats, seem to forget it all the time. Just look at it as a scourge instead of an insurance policy for our rights and our freedom. Well, you know, I have a letter here from Charles. Teddy, I want to thank you for talking about that very interesting topic, and it is definitely something to reflect upon. What America is all about and what our traditions are, and how they’re trying to change that and cost us our rights. EvanNappen 29:09 But Charles here wrote an interesting letter. It says, good morning, Mr. Nappen, happy Monday. Great show this week, as usual. I was asked a question on pocket carry holsters and the legality of it. I’m on the road right now and unable to access your book. I don’t know where to begin to look for it in the link. No rush to your answer. I know you’re a busy man, or if you could share with us the answer. I’m happy to do that. So, here’s the deal. Pocket holsters for pocket carry are fine in New Jersey, because the holster has to be concealed and carried on your person. As long as a pocket holster covers the trigger guard and the body of the firearm, then that’s a fine holster. You can have a pocket carry if it’s on your person and the holster meets the requirements for a holster. Your holster does not have to be, you know, outside the waist or inside the pants. As long as the holster is meeting the criteria under the statute of enclosing the trigger guard and the main body of the firearm and holds it securely, then you’re covered. That’s why the pocket holster is fine for pocket carry, as long as it is in a holster. EvanNappen 30:37 Now, what I would not recommend is just putting it in your pocket, because then we’re going to have to do all kinds of creative legal arguments that somehow your pocket is acting as a holster. Whereas, if you have a pocket holster, well that’s what it’s made to be. It is a holster that’s made for your pocket. So, we don’t want to see you become a GOFU by having the wrong type of holster. Many times, if you Page – 8 – of 10 have certain holsters, you want to make sure that they perform properly and don’t fall out at inappropriate times and do not re-seal. We’ve actually had cases where a person thought they popped open the holster with Velcro, but it closed back on them. And then they ended up when drawing the gun, it caused an AD, an accidental discharge. What we call a problem as that can end up costing you your gun rights. So, beware of that. And you know, we call the ads a dingus, right? Don’t be a dingus. And that’s because of Jesse James. I told that story before about Jesse, who shot two of his fingers off, fooling around with his gun. He never used profanity, and when he shot his fingers off, he said, dingus. Now, if I shot my fingers off, I think I’d say something a little worse than dingus. But you know, his men, I think, fell off their horses laughing about it, and they ended up calling him dingus as a nickname, which I guess only his men could get away with. But don’t be a dingus. So, be very careful about your holster. You want to make sure you’re meeting the criteria under the law. These are important GOFUs that you don’t want to have a problem with. EvanNappen 32:39 But I want to point out specifically this week’s GOFU. And, of course, the GOFU is the Gun Owner Fuck Up. These are lessons that other individuals have learned at great cost, and I want you to be able to learn them for free. One of the key GOFUs to be aware of is a so-called wellness check in New Jersey. Somebody thinks they’re helping you out and calling in a wellness check. Keep in mind that on the so- called wellness check, the police are going to come, and they’re going to check on you or somebody else in the house, because some do-gooder called. I often see that this leads to gun confiscation and the person being taken away for a mental evaluation. So, they’re not only seizing guns, they’re seizing the person. And then quite often, after the eval, which is often very short, often less than a day, less than an hour. I mean, whatever it is they get to. It’s short. Then they say, oh, you’re okay, and they let you go. EvanNappen 33:06 Now you have to deal with getting your guns back, and there are many complications. First of all, New Jersey wants to get their hands on your guns, and they don’t want to give them back. They like to steal everybody’s guns. And then we have to deal with the issues of the mental health that got raised, and they’ll try to use that to revoke your licenses and keep your guns. So, this is a very dangerous situation in which easily a so-called wellness check can happen. And you’ve got to be very cautious about those things happening to you or someone else in your household. Because often they’ll take all the guns in the household, even the person who called about the wellness check. Now, look, I understand. If you have a serious issue and you have to weigh those things and do what’s right for you in terms of that, but at least do it knowing that you’re probably going to have to have a fight over your guns and your gun rights. We get those cases all the time. EvanNappen 34:41 This is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens. Page – 9 – of 10 Speaker 2 34:56 Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state. Page – 10 – of 10 Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S3 E242_Transcript About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets. Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News. As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists. He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America. Email Evan Your Comments and Questions  [email protected] Join Evan’s InnerCircleHere’s your chance to join an elite group of the Savviest gun and knife owners in America.  Membership is totally FREE and Strictly CONFIDENTIAL.  Just enter your email to start receiving insider news, tips, and other valuable membership benefits.   Email (required) *First Name *Select list(s) to subscribe toInnerCircle Membership Yes, I would like to receive emails from Gun Lawyer Podcast. (You can unsubscribe anytime)Constant Contact Use. Please leave this field blank.var ajaxurl = "https://gun.lawyer/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php";

Episode 241-Ten Tips to Stop NJ From Stealing Your Gun Rights Also Available OnSearchable Podcast TranscriptGun Lawyer– Episode 241 SUMMARY KEYWORDS New Jersey gun laws, gun seizure, forfeiture, red flag law, duty to warn, gun safe, gun club membership, gun storage, expungement, gun rights, gun ownership, legal proceedings, gun theft, gun rights suppression, gun lawyer. SPEAKERS Teddy Nappen, Evan Nappen, Speaker 2 Evan Nappen 00:15 I’m Evan Nappen. Teddy Nappen 00:17 And I’m Teddy Nappen. Evan Nappen 00:18 and welcome to Gun Lawyer. New Jersey loves to steal your guns and steal your gun rights. They love to turn law-abiding citizens into criminals. They love to suppress our Second Amendment rights. What I want to talk about today is to give you 10 important tips on how to defeat New Jersey. Should you become a victim of a New Jersey gun theft, where New Jersey, the state of New Jersey, seizes your firearms and attempts to take away your gun rights and keep your guns by what they call forfeiture. The Nazis called it expropriation of property, but New Jersey calls it forfeiture. When these things happen, it can be extremely emotionally upsetting, because your privacy is invaded. Your home, your sanctuary, has been invaded. Your property has been seized and taken, and now you’re going to have to fight to regain your property and stop the Government from taking your rights. Evan Nappen 01:38 And these battles, if you will, can take place under different legal proceedings. New Jersey has quite a number of ways. One can be via a weapon forfeiture hearing after a domestic violence seizure. Another can be what’s commonly known as Red Flag, but in New Jersey it’s an ERPO, an Extreme Risk Protection Order, seizure and then you fight to get your guns back. Another is the so-called duty to warn where any medical professional, even nurses, social service, social workers. I mean, just to list ridiculous. They have an obligation to call the police if you make any statement to harm yourself or others. Even if it’s just a hyperbolic statement, or, you know, oh my god, had such a bad day, I could kill myself, or kill that guy, or whatever. Even though you didn’t actually mean. It doesn’t matter. It’s like making a bomb joke at the airport. Police come and take your guns. Now you get up to fight to get them back. They can also be seized pursuant to a search warrant where there’s alleged criminal activity, and whether there is or isn’t, it doesn’t matter. They get the warrant, and they take it. I’ve seen it even where the guns are just taken with no actual statutory authority whatsoever. They’ll just say, oh, it was a Page – 1 – of 11“community caretaking” function, for the safety of the public. You know, just some BS reason. But still, you’ll have to fight to get your rights back. Evan Nappen 02:59 And under New Jersey’s licensing law, they can bring a motion at any time to revoke your licenses. So, they usually throw that into the mix – the revocation of your Firearms ID Card, Carry Permit, pistol purchase permits, whatever you have. They’ll move to revoke them, and the battle is on for your rights and for your property. And what I want to do here is outline important things that you should think about and do in order to put yourself in the best possible position when it comes to fighting these types of actions in court. So, number one, you should be a member of a gun club. Being a member of multiple clubs, organizations, etc., that are sportsman organizations, is important, along with a gun range. Because by being a member of a club, a range, a group, an organization, it shows that your purpose was to partake in the shooting sports. You were a Club Member. You had these firearms for this reason, although that’s not a requirement in law. Because you’re allowed to have guns for any lawful reason you wish. But in the fight, we have to be able to present that you had it and that you were a member of these organizations or groups or clubs. A gun club can be very helpful in painting the factual picture about you to get your firearms and your rights returned. Evan Nappen 04:26 The other thing is how the guns were stored. So, your firearms should be stored in a gun safe. Nowadays, gun safes are easily acquired, and you can have a wide price range of gun safes. I mean, you can get a so-called gun safe that’s more of a gun locker, but it’s steel. It locks, and even that is a security cabinet for guns. It’s better than not having anything. If your guns were secured in a gun safe, that’s yet another thing to show that you were safely storing your firearms, and only you should have access to those guns. Not your wife. Nobody else in your household. It’s your guns. It’s your gun safe and only you had access. And this way we can put that forward. Only you had access to your guns, and they were safely stored. Again, painting you in a great light. Is it required to have a gun safe? No. The only thing required under New Jersey is that you don’t allow a minor to access a loaded firearm. But if you want to increase your chances and paint the picture that needs to be painted to show just how responsible a person you are, you want to have a gun safe. Evan Nappen 05:35 And don’t stop there. You should have an alarm system. It’s very reasonable these days, with Ring system and others to have an alarm. Particularly with Ring, you can have cameras for security. We can talk about how your home and/or the gun room was secured with cameras and with an alarm and a safe. And that kind of thing, again, presents very well on your behalf, when we’re arguing that you’re not a danger to public health, safety, and welfare. You’re a responsible gun owner. So, those things are good. Plus, with cameras and with that kind of protection, if your guns are seized, often there can be a recording of what’s taken. So, if something disappears, we have proof that it was seized because it was actually recorded in terms of the seizure. That can be very helpful as well. So, think about that. Evan Nappen 06:32 The other thing you want to do is you want to make a list, a private list for yourself, of your guns, with serial numbers, descriptions, photos, if possible. Because when the guns are taken, condition can Page – 2 – of 11become a question. Guns can vanish, disappear, or not appear on property lists. All kinds of shenanigans can take place. Sometimes it’s negligence. Sometimes it’s intentional theft. Who knows? I’ve had theft cases by law enforcement. I’ve had negligent cases where property was lost, and having that list with descriptions is great. It’s proof of what you had and what we want back. But you don’t want to store that list in the safe. You want to keep it in a safe, secure place, other than with your guns. You could have it as a printed list hidden somewhere or hidden in your computer. If you do have it in your computer, make sure you have a hard copy somewhere else as well, hidden, or at least the data on a thumb drive somewhere. Because often computers themselves get taken by the Government, and then you won’t be able to access the very documents that you need. Evan Nappen 07:41 Try to have your ammunition stored separately, not necessarily in the gun safe. If you have a separate locked container for ammo, again, it will present you as very responsible. You want to make sure that the ammunition is stored safely. I once had a case where a guy had pallets of ammo, which are perfectly legal, and they were stored next to the heater of the house, which was stupid. So, you don’t want to be that guy. Have your ammo. Have it stored, have it locked. Have it stored safely in a cool, dry place where it’s not subject to any kind of creation of danger that could show you as being irresponsible. Evan Nappen 08:21 If you have anything in your background that you can get rid of, criminal charges that did not result in conviction, criminal charges that do not necessarily, in any way, disqualify you per se, let’s face it. You’re a convicted felon. You can’t have any guns at all. But if you had certain misdemeanor charges, dismissed charges, anything like that. They just give you a criminal record of arrest, criminal record of charges, you’d be able to get those things expunged. And I would highly suggest that if you can clear your record, you want to have a clean and clear record, regardless of whether the offenses there are actual disqualifiers or not. Now, if you have an actual disqualifier, like a felony, then by getting an expungement, you can actually restore your rights and not have that be a disqualifier. And you can own guns again, at least not having that being a disqualifier. But even if you don’t have a per se disqualifier but you have a record, by getting it expunged that will erase it, remove it, and present you in even a much better light. With an expungement, the prior matters that expunge are deemed not to have occurred by law, and the databases are scrubbed so it doesn’t come up. And this way you are squeaky clean in your background. Evan Nappen 09:39 Also, try to have boxes or cases or gun sleeves. Make sure you have enough containers or sleeves for your guns should they be taken. Because if you can get the guns, at least with some of those silicone sock sleeves or in gun cases or even the original boxes, evidence rooms are notoriously bad. They pile guns one on top of each other. I’ve seen the most disgusting, just nauseating scenes where there’s a milk carton. You know, one of the plastic milk cartons with just handguns piled one on top of another in a milk carton. Metal to metal. Just a pile of them. And when we were retrieving the property, the evidence officer brought the milk crate and just slams it down on the cabinet with all the guns in it banging against each other. Oh, my God. I’ve seen long arms stored. Page – 3 – of 11Teddy Nappen 10:42 My favorite one was the Theodore Roosevelt rifle. Evan Nappen 10:45 Oh, wait, I’ll hold that. I’ve seen rifles stored uncased, barrel down in circular barrels, you know, crash barrels. Just all of them banging against each other. I mean, it’s just. Look some evidence rooms are very professional. Others are a nightmare. If you can have a way to have your guns cased in boxes, or at least in sleeves, it’ll help protect them and also keep them from getting rusty. It’s not like these evidence rooms are climate controlled, or anything like that. So, this way, when we get your guns back, hopefully they’re in good condition, you know, and this can help protect on that. Yeah, Teddy, you’re right. I’ve had gun seized that were incredibly valuable. I had a client once who had a gun that was given by Theodore Roosevelt to one of his cabinet members, and it was destroyed, supposedly destroyed. A gun from the Custer’s last stand that was an Indian capture was supposedly sent to the crusher. Luckily, my client had proofs of these guns that were taken and what they were. The Government ended up paying, you know, a lot of money, big money, for the destruction, wrongful destruction, of the property that we were able to prove belonged to the client and were seized. Evan Nappen 12:20 If you are subject to police with lawful basis to take your guns, such as a warrant, such as a Red Flag, TERPO, that normally has a warrant as part of it, or a Temporary Restraining Order domestic violence that normally has the warrant as part of it. If they have the correct legal process and they’re authorized to take your guns, then the best thing to do there is to open your gun safe and let them do their job. Not opening the safe will only lead to your safe being destroyed and property possibly damaged in the opening of a safe. You might even be charged with resisting or something along those lines. You’re way better off if they’re legal to take it, to let them take it. Then we’re going to fight to get them all returned and come back to you. I’ve had cases where the entire gun safe was taken. I mean, a Browning pro steel full of guns removed with a forklift and taken to the police station. No joke. We’ve seen destruction of the safes, cut open with various tools, just destroyed beyond recognition. All those kind of things. You don’t need that. Just if they’re authorized to take the firearms, your best bet is to let them. Now, just because you do that, it doesn’t mean you make any statements. It doesn’t mean you try to explain anything. But if they’re authorized to take them, cooperate to the extent that that the warrant requires. But other than that, when it comes to making statements or talking to the officer, just say you want to speak to your attorney. You have nothing to say, and get a hold of your attorney right away. Your attorney can act as a shield, a shield between you and the Government. That’s important. Evan Nappen 14:12 When you store your firearms, make sure that you don’t have any third party access. In other words, your wife, your kids, no one else should be able to access your guns. And if they’re stored in a way where third parties could access them, number one, that’s something they could draw against you as a bad thing you were doing by not securing them from third party access. Additionally, if police come to take guns and they’re fully accessible, then you lose any control over that situation to make sure that the guns are properly accounted for and taken in an orderly and legal way. So, you don’t want to ever have third party access to your firearms. Make sure when you have your firearms no one else can access them. Page – 4 – of 11Evan Nappen 15:04 You know, a lot of gun collectors love to have historical items, particularly military history. I, too, love military history. I love it. And you know, part of military history is having relics that belong to those who we defeated. Simply because I may have items from Imperial Japan does not mean I’m an imperialist of Japan, and simply because I may have memorabilia from the Third Reich, in no way means that I’m a Nazi or have any sympathies. As a matter of fact, just the opposite. As the famous line in the Raiders of the Lost Ark, when Harrison Ford said, I hate Nazis. I join in that sentiment. But that doesn’t mean that I don’t appreciate military items of all sides in World War II. If we ignore our history, then if it’s not going to be repeated, as Mark Twain said, it will rhyme, and it’s important to have that. But do not leave material like that on display by your guns. I’ve had cases where, of course, the state goes off on an entire rampage that in the seizure of guns, the person had Third Reich items on display or any other political historical group that they want to demonize at that time to place that upon you. So, be careful with that. Evan Nappen 16:52 Also don’t have any signs that jokingly refer to violence. Like, don’t have the sign, “Trespassers will be shot, survivors will be riddled.” You know, stupid things like that. You don’t want those signs there. Because I guarantee you that when they take pictures and they present evidence, they’ll have one standalone picture of that stupid sign to try and show that you are a violent person who is inclined to wanting to shoot and riddle individuals who trespass and survive the initial encounter. So, that’s just one type of example. You’ve got to be smart about these things. If you take these steps to preempt and insulate yourself and should you become a victim of New Jersey gun rights suppression, these things will give you the best opportunity in fighting to regain your property and your rights. Evan Nappen 18:05 As I said, belonging to a gun club is one of the great things you could do, and I can give you a high recommendation to belong to WeShoot. WeShoot is a gun range in Lakewood, New Jersey, and you can become a member of that gun range. You can participate in shooting activities and get training, and by simply being a member, it immediately gives more credibility to who you are and what you’re about. And those things can make a difference when we’re arguing for your case. So, WeShoot also offers you all the fun of belonging to a range, having a great facility, having a great pro shop, being able to rent and try guns, being able to get the training that you need. They are full service. And it is quite a resource right there in Lakewood, easily off the Parkway. It’s where Teddy and I shoot. We have our credentials. You should have your credentials. Check out at weshootusa.com. It’s a beautiful website with wonderful photos. And join the WeShoot family. Evan Nappen 19:15 Another organization you can be part of is the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. They are the number one gun rights advocate in the state. And, of course, by being a member as well, you can access, and will be able to access all of the great work that the Association is doing. Now, remember, the Association is actually an umbrella organization of gun clubs, but they also have individual members. They hold shooting matches, NRA sanctioned matches, and you can participate and be a member of the Association and do target shooting matches. And if you get a range membership from Page – 5 – of 11them, you’re now a member of one of the largest gun clubs in New Jersey, with the outdoor range up at Cherry Ridge. A beautiful range where you shoot against the mountainside. It’s gorgeous up there. They have a great clubhouse, and they do great work. And this, too, can add to your credentials to show you’re a law-abiding concerned citizen about your rights. And depending on what you may be experiencing, you may be able to be assisted even by the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. So, join anjrpc.org today and become part of the solution. Evan Nappen 20:37 I also would highly suggest that you buy my book, New Jersey Gun Law. It is the Bible of New Jersey gun law. It’s over 500 pages with 120 topics, all in a question and answer format. It is your guidebook to surviving in New Jersey. I explain all the different forfeitures in there. And these things Jersey does in great detail, so you’ll know the game. You’ll understand how it works, and that, too, can protect you, because you’ll know how they operate and what you need to do to protect yourself in this environment that we call this Democratic People’s Republic of New Jersey. And there’s a reason for that, because of the anti-gun agenda, the anti-gun rights agenda, the agenda of suppression that is placed upon gun owners in New Jersey. You need to protect yourself, and you need to use knowledge in doing so. So, pick up a copy of my book, New Jersey Gun Law. Go to EvanNappen.com, EvanNappen.com, and you’ll see the big orange book. Click it and get your copy today. When you get the book, scan the QR code on the front cover and join my free subscriber base. You’ll be able to immediately access the 2025 Comprehensive Update, where I’ve done chapter updates, including a standalone chapter on “sensitive places” where you can and can’t carry. Plus, you’ll get notice of any law changes in New Jersey. So, your book will stay current. Get my book, folks. It’s my labor of love, and it will help protect you, and that’s what I care about. I don’t want to see any New Jerseyan become a victim of New Jersey’s gun rights suppression. So, Teddy, what do you have for us today in Press Checks? Teddy Nappen 22:28 Oh, as we know, Press Checks are always free. And it was actually pretty funny. One of my friends sent me an April Fool’s video as a joke. But it kind of inspired something, and we got into a long conversation. So, this is from TheToughestBeat.com, where the Pinal County Sheriff launched a gunsmith certification program for inmates. (https://thetoughestbeat.com/inside-the-inmate- gunsmithing-program/) Evan Nappen 22:58 Oh, they’re going to give gunsmithing to those in jail, inmates. Well, that’s a great idea, actually. I’m sure you know about one of the most famous inmates who ever made a gun. Teddy Nappen 23:13 Carbine Williams. Evan Nappen 23:14 That’s right. And he did it while he was in prison. Page – 6 – of 11Evan Nappen 23:17 Yeah, he played him in the one of the greatest movies. I love it. If you’ve never seen Carbine Williams played by Jimmy Stewart, you will love it, and it’s a true story. () Teddy Nappen 23:18 Also known as Jimmy Stewart. Evan Nappen 23:21 For a pal. Evan Nappen 23:34 Haha ha. Jimmy Stewart there did a great job, and this is an amazing story. Carbine Williams helped to win World War II with his invention of the mechanism of the beloved M1 Carbine. It was his design as an imprisoned felon where he was allowed to make a firearm in prison that became instrumental in us fighting the Nazis and others, by the way. What else did you uncover about Carbine Williams? Teddy Nappen 24:17 Well, I will give North Carolina credit. They do honor him with a full history and breakdown. (https://northcarolinahistory.org/encyclopedia/david-carbine-williams-1900-1975/) So, yes, he was honored to be the creator of the M1 Carbine. General Douglas MacArthur praised the M1 Carbine as one of the strongest contributing factors to our victory in the Pacific. So, you can see value. Kind of just a little brief history. Carbine Williams got in the moonshine trade, you know, liquor in the 1920s, and he unfortunately ended up in a shootout where law enforcement arrested him at one of his stills and one of the sheriffs had died. Now, it was never proven whether or not he killed that sheriff or one of the others, but he was found guilty. He was. Evan Nappen 25:04 Essentially felony murder. Teddy Nappen 25:14 Yeah, second degree murder of Deputy Sheriff Pace. Then he was brought to the prison and go to here, where it was very interesting. So, in the movie, he makes one rifle. It turns out he was allowed to make four. Evan Nappen 25:31 Four? He could, like, arm other inmates even, holy crap. That’s pretty good. Evan Nappen 25:35 I wonder if they have a museum there for him? That would be really cool. I wonder if they do. Teddy Nappen 25:35 Yeah. So, while serving his sentence in a labor camp of Topton in the Blue Ridge Mountains of North Carolina, while supervised by Captain Harry Thomas Peoples. Page – 7 – of 11Teddy Nappen 25:50 They do have. I did see this very cool plaque that they have honoring him. Giving, like, even naming, imagine walking and seeing this, Carbine Williams, the inventor of the M1 Garand, died here. Like, that’s, it’s how they. Evan Nappen 26:01 You know, I have his book. Carbine. It was signed by him. I think I showed that to you, Teddy. It’s actually signed by Carbine Williams. Yeah, it’s pretty cool. Well, it’s an amazing American story. So, is this real? Is this? Are they actually offering gunsmithing in jails, now? Is that a real thing? Teddy Nappen 26:02 No, it wasn’t. Evan Nappen 26:19 Oh, man. Teddy Nappen 26:21 I know, right? Evan Nappen 26:22 Come on, that’s a great idea. Teddy Nappen 26:24 It would have been honestly. Evan Nappen 26:26 Because, look, if inmates actually learn a trade of gunsmithing, then when they get out, even though they may be felons, that will actually be of help to them in getting a Relief from Disabilities federally, so they can pursue the trade that they learned in prison, which deals with guns. So, it could actually have a double win for folks. But I guess they don’t want felons learning gunsmithing, huh? Teddy Nappen 26:52 No, instead, they want to give degrees for Gender Studies and, you know, affirmative action. Evan Nappen 26:58 Well in prison, I don’t know if that’ll help us win World War III or not, but. Teddy Nappen 27:06 Probably not. So, maybe some degrees in drones. Evan Nappen 27:10 Yeah. Well, you know, the Carbine Williams story and movie is really an amazing story, but I love M1 carbines. They are magnificently historical. They’re wonderful collectibles, and they just speak World Page – 8 – of 11War Two. They are just the pride of America. And, of course, New Jersey bans them as the assault firearms. Teddy Nappen 27:33 Of course. Evan Nappen 27:38 Period, end of story. So, they’re unlawful to possess in New Jersey. Even though a straight stock Mini- 14 is legal, you can’t have an M1 Carbine. I mean, it just makes so much sense. None of it should be banned. It’s outrageous. At one point, the U.S. Government was selling M1 Carbines direct to your door through the DCM. the DCM Carbines. They’d mail it right to your door. And they were doing it to promote marksmanship through the Division of Civilian Marksmanship. Teddy Nappen 28:13 And every purchase came with a free Rockola jukebox. Evan Nappen 28:18 Well, Rockola Jukebox company was one of the makers of World War Two Carbines. So was IBM, the computer company. So was postal meter that made postal meters. So was Inland Division, which was that of General Motors. So, the wartime production, you know, that’s just to name some of them, converted to arms manufacturing and made what essentially was the design of a convicted felon to make those guns. Pretty good. Teddy Nappen 28:47 It would actually be kind of interesting if we ever got to that point and you ended up, like, a Google AR. Like, if it ever got that bad to a degree where we needed that much manufacturing. Evan Nappen 29:03 Hmm, well, hey, it’s interesting. Well, too bad that was just a joke. But I bet there may be some prisons that might actually consider doing this. I mean, if it’s done under relatively controlled circumstances, as it was with Carbine Williams, then it’s just guns. And of course, the attitude about firearms was different in those days. There was not the organized effort to demonize them and to make firearms intrinsically evil, somehow. And unfortunately, you know, the anti-gun rights folks, the gun rights suppressionists, have waged this propaganda war that has made inroads in America’s attitudes toward firearms, thereby harming our rights. Teddy Nappen 29:58 I will say, from my research. This was from USCarbineCal30.com. (http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/williams3.html) They did a whole write up where they actually show the rifles that he made. They were all semi-automatic. The first one he did was a .22 rimfire using the loading chamber design, which also served as a short stoke gas piston impacted the face of the bolt when operating the action. The second one, which I thought was kind of cool, he actually based it off of the Remington Model 8 semi-automatic rifle. That was the one he built. Page – 9 – of 11Evan Nappen 30:35 You know, to some degree, Kalashnikov also took some of the design elements of the Remington Model 8, by the way, too. If you look at the safety of the Kalashnikov and then look at the Model 8 safety, I think you’ll see the similarities. So, yeah, well, gun design is important, and it evolves. But I’ll tell you, in the gun right suppressionist countries that have succeeded in disarming their sheeple, we were talking about the machete ban in Australia, land of sheeple there, that where that’s taking place. Well, I have a letter here from Mike who says, Evan, I just saw this article on machete. I just listened to your most recent podcast, and now I see Germany is on the same path as Australia. (https://www.infowars.com/posts/german-police-union-fumes-as-machetes-go-on-sale-in-berlin- supermarket-despite-79-knife-crimes-daily) You are correct. Maybe it’s time to stock up on machetes. To be honest, I can’t believe compound bows don’t require a purchase permit. Hey, you never know. Never put anything past New Jersey. I once had a case where my client was charged under a town ordinance for shooting his bow and arrow. The town did not have an ordinance against shooting bows and arrows, only against firearms, but they charged him with shooting a firearm, to wit a bow and arrow. And so, my question is, what do you have a string gun? I mean, what is this? It’s not a firearm, and it was absolutely a false arrest. He actually later sued them over it successfully. Evan Nappen 32:14 But I have another letter here from Bill. This is a short one, but I feel I should read it. It says, Bill, regarding Gun Lawyer show 6-1-25. Great show, gentlemen. Very informative, especially regarding federal law regarding toy guns. Well, thank you, Bill. That was simply a compliment, which I’m happy to boost my ego by reading to you folks. So, thanks. Thanks again, Bill. I really appreciate that you guys listen, and you gals listen. It means a lot, because I really want you to be protected and not become a victim. I want to see you remain defenders of both yourself, your family, your loved ones and our rights. It’s critical for that. Evan Nappen 32:58 Well, we have now come to one of our favorite segments of the show, which is the GOFU, that is the Gun Owner Fuck Up. And the reason we look at GOFUs is because they are expensive mistakes made by law- abiding citizens normally, that costs them a lot in their rights and money and potential freedom, and you get to learn from their mistakes for free. So, this week’s GOFU concerns an actual case that I’m aware of where this individual unfortunately had his very young daughter, less than 10 years old, say stupid things in school. We’re talking about, you know, a very young child who got into an argument with some kid or whatever, and she said, you know, my daddy has a gun and will shoot you. Something along those lines. Well, that’s all you need. Because next thing you know, the school’s on it, and the police get involved and everything falls. You know they’re dangerous. Access to guns just explodes and escalates into seizure of the father’s guns and having to fight to get them back. And allegations across the board over any type of danger, etc. Evan Nappen 34:24 So, the GOFU here is, frankly, you have to tell your kids. You have to tell your kids never, ever mention that your family, your household, your father, your mother, your brother, anybody else, has firearms, or that the family owns firearms. And never threaten about the ownership of firearms. You must instill in your kids not to talk about guns in school. And particularly guns that may exist in your household. I’ve Page – 10 – of 11seen this GOFU over and over again. Kids get a picture of a gun, even when mom or dad was showing them their gun, and legally, lawfully shooting the gun with their child is allowed, and a picture is taken even just of the gun, and next thing you know, that’s being text around and viewed as a threat. Or whether there’s any kind of statements being made about gun possession, etc. They’re hyper, and they have an agenda. This plays into the agenda of the state. So, make sure you explain to your loved ones. Never talk about firearms that you or any family member has and never make any threats in any way of harm to anybody, especially threats of harm with a firearm. Evan Nappen 35:55 This is Evan and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens. Speaker 2 36:05 Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state. Page – 11 – of 11 Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S3 E241_Transcript About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets. Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News. As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists. He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America. Email Evan Your Comments and Questions  [email protected] Join Evan’s InnerCircleHere’s your chance to join an elite group of the Savviest gun and knife owners in America.  Membership is totally FREE and Strictly CONFIDENTIAL.  Just enter your email to start receiving insider news, tips, and other valuable membership benefits.   Email (required) *First Name *Select list(s) to subscribe toInnerCircle Membership Yes, I would like to receive emails from Gun Lawyer Podcast. (You can unsubscribe anytime)Constant Contact Use. Please leave this field blank.var ajaxurl = "https://gun.lawyer/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php";

Episode 240-How Many Guns in the US? Also Available OnSearchable Podcast TranscriptGun Lawyer– Episode 240 SUMMARY KEYWORDS Firearm ownership, privately owned guns, anti-gun laws, Second Amendment, gun rights, firearm manufacturing, machete ban, youth marksmanship, toy guns, gun safety, gun laws, gun rights suppression, firearm training, gun legislation, gun ownership statistics. SPEAKERS Speaker 1, Evan Nappen, Teddy Nappen, Speaker 2 Evan Nappen  00:15 I’m Evan Nappen. Teddy Nappen  00:16 And I’m Teddy Nappen. Evan Nappen  00:18 And welcome to Gun Lawyer. So, here’s a question that I’ve pondered, and I bet many of you have, too. Now we have some updated information to get an answer to it. And the question is, how many privately owned firearms are there in the United States? We’re talking privately owned, not even owned by, you know, the Government, the military, etc. How many privately owned firearms are in the United States? Teddy Nappen  00:50 Now, it’s the total number of the firearms? Evan Nappen  00:53 Total number of guns in the U.S. It is interesting to know this figure, especially when you start thinking about those that want to suppress our rights. So, this is an article from AmmoLand, and it’s by one of my favorite writers in AmmoLand, who is Dean Weingarten. (https://www.ammoland.com/2025/05/update-533-million-privately-owned-firearms-in-the-united-states/) He says is that there are approximately, are ready for this, 533 million firearms in private hands in the United States of America in 2025. That’s right over half a billion privately-owned guns in the U.S. So, just taking that number, just letting that sink in for a minute, it shows you the absolute futility of anti-gun rights laws, and the farce of thinking that a gun ban could work. What a joke. They can’t even round up the illegal aliens, which pale in numbers compared to the number of guns. Evan Nappen  02:15 I mean, these bans, apart from being an absolute violation of our rights and a violation of what is important for maintaining the security of ourselves and our families and our country, it is an incredible figure of such quantity that it is hard to really keep it in mind. I mean, think about it. Our current population is estimated to be like 343 million people. So, we have way more guns. We have almost 200 million more guns in private hands than we have people in the United States. It comes down to 1.55 firearms for every person in the United States. And that figure, by the way, which just warms my heart, is  growing by 15 to 20 million every year. So, even with that many guns, you still don’t have enough guns. Okay? So, if someone ever wants to know, when do you have enough guns? America doesn’t have enough guns. We don’t have enough guns. There are never enough guns. Yeah, guns are just endlessly desired with good reason. Teddy Nappen  03:49 It actually kind of, you know, every time I hear them say, oh yeah, we could confiscate and, you know, round up all the firearms. They can’t even keep them out of jails. Evan Nappen  03:57 It’s such a joke. What a joke. Yeah, and, you know, the other thing that’s funny is, with 533 million privately-owned firearms in the United States, one of the things they don’t mention is that I think my wife believes that the vast majority of those guns are owned by me. But anyway, it is really a startling figure. I mean, I used to run with a number that was about 300 million. But that was old, old numbers. I mean, it is way up there. Apparently this was figured out based on data from the manufacturer, importation and exportation of firearms, and this is record, since World War II, talking about researchers that have put all this together. And it’s really, really interesting. Evan Nappen  05:01 The AmmoLand article, which I highly recommend you read, is called “Update: 533 Million Privately Owned Firearms in the United States”. It also talks about Gary Kleck, in his seminal work, which is “Point Blank Guns and Violence in America”. And, you know, this was one of the main other areas where there was a lot of research done that was very influential by Gary Kleck. And there’s really just, ultimately, the estimate, by the way, at the end of 2023 it was 513 million. So, we’re gaining quite a lot every year. And the estimate, by the way, was calculated by the National Shooting Sports Foundation, a very legitimate organization, and they based it on NICs data, National Instant Check data, reported by the FBI. And by the way, calculating on that, it adds another 16.5 million in 2024. So, 533 million guns in America, that is in private hands. That really is an amazing number, and we have strength in numbers. Those numbers are the embodiment of what the Second Amendment means. The right to keep and bear arms is the foundation to our firearm ownership. And it’s not surprising that we have that number, really, because we are a country founded by guns, a country that was pioneered with guns, a country that expanded with firearms, a country that is very familiar with firearms in every way. Evan Nappen  07:16 And you know, the mainstream media focuses on the negatives of firearms, but that’s really a very small percentage of the firearms that are privately owned. Think about that. It’s an incredibly small percentage. It’s almost statistically insignificant, if you looked at the number of guns used in crime compared to the number of privately owned firearms in America. But, of course, we don’t want to see anybody do anything wrong with guns. We don’t want to see bad guys committing atrocities with guns. We all agree with that, but it isn’t the gun. As we all know, it’s the person. The firearm is a tool, and that is it. Like anything else that we own or have, it can be used for right or wrong. It can be abused. It’s pretty basic stuff that the gun rights suppressionists always try to cloud over. They always try to obscure whenever we’re dealing with trying to protect and stand up for our rights. Teddy Nappen  08:31 Yeah. A question. I’m curious. Well, with all the massive amounts of investment in manufacturing that Trump is bringing to back to our country. I’d be curious to see if the number of firearms, if it actually increases dramatically over the year, because you’re saying it’s about 20 million growing every year. It’d be funny to see the number just jump. Evan Nappen  08:53 I’m hopeful we’ll see an increase in domestic firearm manufacture. That helps keep us strong, especially if we end up needing arms to defend our country and our freedoms. And you know, if we’re dependent on others to supply us with any kind of arms, even our basic rifles, then we’re in trouble. So, let’s make them here. I’ve got no problem with that. And foreign companies that make great products, fine. Build some factories here and make your great products here, too. Just like what’s being done with automobiles and so many other products. We need the manufacturing in America. It is so fundamental to what is the wealth of a nation. All you’ve got to do is read the classic by Adam Smith, “The Wealth of Nations” (published in 1776). And I’ll tell you; the wealth of a nation is its tools of capital production. It’s tools of production. It’s capital goods. If you don’t have the manufacturing capability, then you don’t have a very high standard of living, a quality of life. And you do not have a wealthy country. If you look at countries that have the most resources, they’re not necessarily the wealthiest countries. The countries that are the wealthiest are those with solid manufacturing, with capital investment in manufacturing, goods that are done in their country. And that’s what provides strength, security, and wealth of a nation. And firearms are definitely a part of that. Evan Nappen  10:27 But it seems that other countries have forgotten that. Other countries don’t protect rights for individuals, not just on guns. Here’s a new one from the folks down under. The Aussies seem to have the same mental illness that the U.K. has when it comes to banning objects that they believe are intrinsically evil. You know, it’s just the object and not the person. So, now proposed in all places, Australia, is a machete ban. Can you imagine this? They want to ban machetes in Australia. Talk about a place where you freaking need machetes. I mean, it’s Australia. But that never stops a right suppressionists, does it? And this is from an article from BearingArms. (https://bearingarms.com/tomknighton/2025/05/27/proposed-australian-machete-ban-proves-some-people-never-learn-n1228713) Evan Nappen  11:24 Tom Knighton pointed this one out, and it’s very interesting. The Australians are considering this bill for machete control. The Australian state government is banning the sale of machetes. Why? After a violent gang fight in a suburban shopping mall injured a young man. So, one bunch of idiots misuses machetes, and they’ve got to ban them for the whole country. It is law by lowest common denominator. You know, we can’t have laws that constantly take away rights, suppress our freedoms, and remove incredibly useful tools such as machetes, no less guns, because of the wrong doings of a few. Because of idiotic behavior of a few. Yet, Australia is apparently going down that very path by attempting to ban machetes. It says Victoria will be banning machetes from being sold anywhere in the state. It goes on about how they started restricting guns because of violence, and rather than addressing violence itself, what happened? Violent individuals moved on to another weapon, and they’re still not learning from their mistake. And Tom is absolutely right. Guns, like machetes, are tools. So, here we go, a machete ban. I’m sure New Jersey won’t be too far behind. So, if you want a machete, you better get it now. Do you know who’s got great deals on machetes? Actually, Harbor Freight. Harbor Freight sells machetes. They’re very reasonable, and they’re pretty decent for what they are, believe it or not. So, pick up some backup machetes that are unregistered machetes so you can keep in case you ever need them. Teddy Nappen  13:33 To go off of that, what’s the one weapon you would need? The one thing, put everything aside, a machete. Australia has 21 of the 25 most venomous snakes. A machete is literally the perfect tool in the most dangerous place, and they’re banning it. Evan Nappen  13:54 Yeah, if you’re gonna chop snakes heads off. But also, if you’re gonna walk through the jungle, if you’re gonna walk through Bush country, if you’re going to walk about, you need what? Machetes are useful on the trail. They’re useful in camping, useful chopping wood, useful for so many things. As a matter of fact, I prefer machete to a hand axe when I’m camping. It’s very useful. And how many times? And, you know, gardening and anything else. So, machetes are a very useful tool, without a doubt, and yet, you know so much for that. Oh, well, too bad this is just focused on the object. That’s it. I think there’s a some culture, some primitive culture. I think they’re called dado or something. I don’t remember the exact name, but what the culture does is they don’t blame the person, they blame the object. So, if someone is killed with a rock, they put the rock on trial. They put the rock on trial. They punish the rock. They don’t punish the person, because it’s a rock that killed the person when it hit them in the head. So, that mentality is what the gun rights suppressionists seem to embrace. They prosecute, go after, try to imprison and get rid of the item, instead of trying to control the wrong doer. It’s actually the rock that is on trial and the rock that’s going to be prosecuted and imprisoned. It’s that twisted mentality that we’re dealing with. Teddy Nappen  15:35 Hey, don’t give Australia any ideas. They’re going to ban rocks next. Evan Nappen  15:40 They might. They might. Don’t take it for granite. Ha, ha, ha. Yeah, you never know. There’s no end to the idiocracy that infests these so-called free countries. Boy, you know, it’s gotten so bad with the U.K. and Australia. I wanted to, you know, we thought about traveling there. I don’t even want to go there now. I don’t even want to go to these countries that are so stupid. There’s so little regard for human rights in terms of and they’re so illogical. They’re just full of illogic. And the countries have just, you know, they’ve lost what made them great. Lost it, and it’s just something I really wouldn’t want anything to do with them. I don’t want to even go there. Evan Nappen  16:29 But a place I do want to go is WeShoot. WeShoot is an indoor range in Lakewood. It’s a place where Teddy and I both shoot. It’s a great indoor range, and they have some cool specials that I want to mention to you. They have the Sig Sauer 1911 FTC Emperor Scorpion pistol. It’s a rugged 1911 with custom flat dark earth finish, front cocking serrations and a trigger as crisp as they come. They also have a SIG P365 Rose. Now the P365 is a very popular compact carry gun, and the Rose is designed with women in mind. Yes, one of the fastest growing segments of gun owners is women, and rightly so. As the old saying is, God didn’t make men and women equal. Sam Colt did. And in this case, Sig may have. You can get a P365 Rose at WeShoot, and it is beautiful with a rose gold tone finish. It’s optics ready and has enhanced performance as a micro-compact carry package. They also have a Tokarev USA TX3 12 gauge, which is a rock solid 12 gauge shotgun with modern upgrades. Perfect for home defense or range time. So, WeShoot as some great specials. You want to check them out at their great pro shop. They will take care of you. They will get you equipped, and they will get you trained. They have top of the line training. Get your certification, your CCARE certification there so you can get your carry permit in New Jersey, like Teddy and I both did. You can take advantage of some of the greatest courses, great bargains and a great range. They treat you like family. Check out WeShoot at weshootusa.com.  Fantastic photography on their website. You will be glad you did. Go to weshoot usa.com. Evan Nappen  18:43 Also our good friends at the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. They are the gun rights group of New Jersey, the premier group. They’re actually an umbrella organization of gun clubs throughout New Jersey. But you can join as an individual member, and you should. Because they are the folks out there defending our rights. They have a full-time paid lobbyist at Trenton. They’re running litigation in federal courts going after the evil New Jersey rights suppression laws, as we speak. They have a fantastic printed newsletter. They send out email alerts so that you’ll stay on top of it. You’ll know what changes might be coming one way or another. You will know what fights we have to engage in to protect our rights. Please check out anjrpc.org.  anjrpc.org The Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. Please be a member and be part of the solution, which is anjrpc.org. Evan Nappen  19:47 It is this time that I want to mention and shamelessly promote my book, New Jersey Gun Law, the Bible of New Jersey gun law. Folks, if you want the guidebook to staying legal and not being a GOFU, you’ve got to get my book. It is fully updated. You can immediately scan the QR code on the front cover and get the Comprehensive 2025 Update with a standalone chapter on sensitive places. It’s over 500 pages, but it’s 120 chapters slash topics, all explained and easy to understand, question and answer. It is the book used by everybody in New Jersey. From the State Police Firearms Division all the way down to you and me. It is the book to help keep you legal. Go to EvanNappen.com, EvanNappen.com. You’ll see the big orange book there. Just click it and order your copy today. Evan Nappen  20:49 We’re going to be hearing from Teddy with the Press Checks segment, but before we jump into that, I’m going to lay a little groundwork here on a topic that, yet again, we are seeing take place. There’s no end to running to destroy our culture. You know, the left always claims to want to protect culture. Yeah, but not our culture, not those that believe in the Second Amendment lifestyle. Oh, no, no. You see that’s where we have to attack it on every front. There is no stone left unturned in their zest to go after anything and everything that deals with firearms. Evan Nappen  21:36 And here the New York Attorney General, Letitia James, yes, the infamous Letitia who is currently being investigated, by the way, by President Trump with her ongoing issues. But here we go. We have Letitia fines from Walmart for shipping illegal realistic toy guns to New York. I’m not kidding, folks. Toy guns. That’s right. She’s very proud to announce that Walmart was forced to pay $16,000 in penalties for selling toy guns. (https://ag.ny.gov/press-release/2025/attorney-general-james-fines-walmart-shipping-illegal-realistic-toy-guns-new) Realistic looking toy guns that, according to Letitia, can put communities in serious danger, and that’s why they’re banned in New York. New York’s never found anything that looks or crawls like a gun that they want to make legal. They’re just like New Jersey when it comes to that. So, they have a ban on realistic looking toy guns. And folks, when you go to that press release and you look at one of the “realistic toy guns”, what do you see? You see some plastic, obviously fake, sub gun that’s a joke with a bright orange tip that is plainly a toy. If you don’t recognize that that’s a toy, you must be a Democrat. I don’t know, because it’s pretty clear. Furthermore that looks to be completely in compliance with the federal law. Evan Nappen  23:28 Let me tell you what’s interesting about the federal law. Title 15 U.S. Code 5001 dealing with imitation firearms. That law establishes the requirements for toy firearms to have that orange tip, to have certain features. It looks to me like the “realistic toy gun” was in complete compliance with federal law. And you know that federal law actually is preemptive, preemptive, meaning state law cannot supersede it in some specific instances. So, if you’re dealing with items that are preemptive, Walmart may have had an argument to be made that New York’s law is unconstitutional as preemptive. But I’ll tell you what, flat out, is preemptive, and what Walmart can absolutely sell by way of the preemption that is crystal clear in this 5001 part of the federal law, which is preemption. Listen to what it says, folks. Provisions of this section, which deals with air guns, replica firearms, and toy firearms. Deals with all that says, it shall supersede any provision of state or local laws or ordinances which provide for markings or identification inconsistent with provisions of this section provide. That no state shall, number one, prohibit the sale or manufacture of any look alike, non-firing collector replica of an antique firearm developed prior to 1898. Evan Nappen  25:12 So, Walmart can sell all of the toy cowboy guns. The 1873 single action armies are pre-1898 “antiques, right? Any of those guns can be sold, and New York cannot stop them from selling those. It is pre- emptive. I don’t know if any of the guns they claimed Walmart was selling fall under the specific prohibition for that. They cannot prohibit the sale of any of those guns. So, your classic cowboy and indian toys, right? We all did as kids, but now it’s politically incorrect to do. It cannot be banned by state or local law. But I’ll tell you something even more that cannot be banned, because that’s part two. The other thing that states cannot prohibit, they cannot prohibit the sale of traditional BB, paintball or pellet firing air guns that expel a projectile through the force of air pressure. That’s right. Did you know that the sale of BB guns and pellet guns are preemptive and states and localities cannot prohibit them? I actually have a case directly on this from my firm, way back. It was Coalition v. Florio, and we utilized that provision of preemption right there to remove air guns from New Jersey’s assault firearm ban. That’s right. We won an injunction in federal court over air gun preemption of that very section that I just read you. So, it does have power. Federal preemption has power. Keep that in mind. Teddy, tell us about your Press Checks. Teddy Nappen  27:22 Well, as we know, Press Checks are always free. So, kind of going with that whole attack on toy guns, I wanted to. It kind of reminded me of, if you recall, it was Daniel Defense, where they were trying to go after them. Making the argument that the company was marketing to children. This comes from the Texas Tribune. It was about a year ago, where the family members of the victims of a shooting. They brought this lawsuit against Facebook, Instagram, the makers of Call of Duty, and Daniel Defense, arguing that they were marketing to underage individuals, and then, because he turned 18, and then bought the rifle. So, it got me kind of thinking. Where did that go? The old days where the idea like marksmanship was part of youth, part of growing up, growing up as a boy, like learning. What happened to that passion of marksmanship? They’re saying, like, what they shouldn’t be doing that. Well, that’s in our history. As I pulled from, I wanted to look up, like old style, like, what was the idea of youth rifleman ship? It turns out, in the American Riflemen, there was a Winchester Youth Rifle Corps. A Corps that goes back to, the founding of it in 1914, I misspoke 1918. (https://www.americanrifleman.org/content/origins-of-the-winchester-junior-rifle-corps/) Evan Nappen  29:05 So, World War One, right after. Teddy Nappen  29:07 Yeah, right. Yeah, where was. Evan Nappen  29:10 That would make sense. They want our soldiers to know how to shoot. And they look at the youth and say, we want youth to have marksmanship skills. It was important. Teddy Nappen  29:20 And it traced back to these two books that inspired the founding of the Winchester Youth Rifle Corps. It was “The Citizen Rifleman” by E.J.D. Newitt and “Why Should Boys Be Taught To Shoot?” by General George Wingate, one of NRAs founders and presidents. Evan Nappen  29:46 Teaching boys to shoot. Imagine such a concept. Wow. Well, he saw it as a military man and how important it was. That’s actually one of the reasons for what later became the DCM, Division of Civilian Marksmanship, and now is the CMP, Civilian Marksmanship Program. The idea is to have our citizenship able to shoot. It was recognized in the civil war that a lot of our men couldn’t shoot. You know, we’re a nation of riflemen, and we need to maintain that. And it starts with our youth. Teddy Nappen  30:23 It was actually interesting where Wingate pushed for this because of his experiences from the Spanish American War. He was noticing all his people that it took them so long to train them to shoot. So, he  laid the groundwork early on. Then you have the Winchester Junior Rifle Corp. It was formed later, later in that finally formed, it pushed the idea of a youth rifle, a .22. And the one they were marketing was the Winchester Model 1902 .22. Funny enough, one of their first members was a woman, Ruth L. Russell of New Haven, Connecticut. Evan Nappen  31:11 But wait a minute, his book was teaching boys to shoot. How dare a woman join that? Teddy Nappen  31:16 I know, right? I guess he assumed her gender. On top of which, the Youth Corps was also colorblind. They allowed black Americans from Florida and New York City to attend it. Native Americans as well. So, very clearly, this was about uniting us as a nation of American marksman. Evan Nappen  31:42 That’s right. The Second Amendment is for everybody, man. The Second Amendment is for everybody, and a nation that shoots is a safe nation. We want to make sure our people can shoot, and beginning young is important. That’s where toy guns can play an important role in learning gun safety and in familiarity with firearms. The right suppressionists know this. That’s why they want to stop youth from being exposed to even toy guns. They don’t want the acclamation taking place. They’re trying to go at it in every angle to destroy our rights. And how come it’s Democrats that always seem to be against us? It’s so few that ever stand up for the Second Amendment. I mean, basically, it’s virtually non-existent. I mean, if there’s a Democrat out there that will stand up and be pro-gun, be outspoken about being pro- gun, please show me them. Okay? Please show me them. I mean, I guess they’re out there, but, you know, good luck on that. Evan Nappen  32:59 So, it really comes down to it’s critical that if you care about your rights, make sure you support those that want to support you. And it’s just a fact, and it’s a shame. Both parties should vigorously support our Second Amendment rights, but that isn’t the case, is it? And no less, trying to take down youth and stop youth from shooting. I mean, Teddy, didn’t you have great shooting? Teddy, you’re an Eagle Scout. Didn’t you do shooting in the Boy Scouts? Wasn’t that one of the things you did? Teddy Nappen  33:37 That was one of my earliest merit badges. When I went to Hidden Valley, the instructor thought it was hilarious that I earned my shotgun merit badge in a day. Just like, Evan Nappen  33:49 Well, you had a little bit of experience, and you knew. You knew what to do. Yeah, but that’s good. It’s good. And they have a great setup there for hitting. They had black powder. They had shotgun, and they had rifle. I think now they even have handgun, which is great. I give them credit for that. At least they have kept the tradition alive with scouting. Teddy Nappen  34:12 That was the other point I noticed. So, it was from this article that was written up. It was called Boy Scouts, The National Rifle Association and Domestication of Rifle Shooting” by Jay Mechling. Bear in mind, the guy who wrote the article was very much a rights suppressor. He’s going off this belief that, you know, the mythology of how masculinity equals hunting. That was one. That’s the level of stupidity, but I will give him credit. He did cite some good examples of youth shooting. And guess where it was? In the Boy Scouts. The very first edition of the Boy Scout Handbook in 1911 included marksmanship as one of the first merit badges to earn. Imagine that? Actually wanting to teach young boys. And particularly for Boy Scouts, they were very much in the city or urban areas. They weren’t typical shooters. So, now they were building that influence. And he tries to draw this whole argument. Speaker 1  34:33 There used to be high school rifle teams all over the place. As a matter of fact, my mom, your grandmom, Teddy, was on the rifle team in high school. She would bicycle to high school with her rifle over her shoulder, and they didn’t even have them in a case. She would bicycle to school. This was, you know, in the 50s. Bicycle to school and bring her gun. Put it in the locker and participate on the rifle team. And it was no problem. There weren’t massive school shootings in those days, even though there were guns in the lockers and rifle teams in school. I don’t think it was the guns that was the problem, was it? Teddy Nappen  36:14 And it was actually pretty funny. In the article, he was trying to say the Boy Scouts of America and the NRA were in collaboration in normalizing rifle use and safety with young men. How dare they? Yeah, we should have more normalization of that. Evan Nappen  36:32 Exactly. Teddy Nappen  36:33 Rifle use and safety. What’s wrong with that? Evan Nappen  36:36 Yeah, these people. And, you know, this is why we are talking about it. We’re trying to get folks to understand it, and we have to keep on getting the message out. It’s critical. Because the anties are relentless. The anti-rights suppressionists are relentless. The other thing you have to, of course, always worry about is their efforts have made it so that you can have problems, and we don’t want to see you become a GOFU. GOFUs are Gun Owner Fuck Ups in which gun owners make mistakes, and it can be big problems for them, expensive. We like to talk about those mistakes so that you don’t make them. You get to learn them for free. Evan Nappen  37:33 So, this week’s GOFU concerns, make sure that you have your CCARE certificate. They’re good for two years, but only two years. Make sure that you have current CCARE and that you have the qualifying one. Because if you submit your old one and it’s out of date, you’re going to be denied. We’re seeing that come up for whatever reason. People are not realizing that you have a two year limit on the usefulness of your CCARE. And when it comes to any of these licensing requirements, take note of when your licenses expire. Make sure that your certificates for qualification are updated and current. This way you can continue to be lawful and licensed, particularly in The Democratic People’s Republic of New Jersey. Evan Nappen  38:41 This is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminal from honest citizens. Speaker 2  38:53 Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state. Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S3 E240_Transcript About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets. Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News. As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists. He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America. 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Episode 239-The Big Beautiful and Silent Bill Also Available OnSearchable Podcast TranscriptGun Lawyer– Episode 239 SUMMARY KEYWORDS Gun Lawyer, Second Amendment, Hearing Protection Act, National Firearms Act, silencers, reconciliation bill, taxation, filibuster, gun rights, suppressors, short barrel rifles, President Trump, gun legislation, NRA, gun rights organizations. SPEAKERS Evan Nappen, Speaker 2, Teddy Nappen Evan Nappen 00:15 I’m Evan Nappen. Teddy Nappen 00:17 And I’m Teddy Nappen. Evan Nappen 00:19 And welcome to Gun Lawyer. President Trump is poised to deliver a first. He’s had many firsts, but this is looking really good legislatively in the Congress. The reconciliation bill, the big, beautiful bill that passed the House, has a very, very special provision for those folks that love and cherish our Second Amendment rights. What we have is a repeal, essentially, of the federal law prohibiting silencers. I’ll use the word prohibiting here, even though it’s technically possible to have a silencer. But basically, it’s looked at as a federal ban on silencers and that is essentially what’s being repealed. It was attached to the big, beautiful bill, which is a reconciliation bill, and the reason this is so important is that reconciliation is one of the few areas where there is no cloture, no filibuster possible in the Senate. So, the anti-Second Amendment rights, the gun rights suppressors and oppressors cannot get this bill killed using filibuster or cloture, where you need to have 60 votes in order to get it out of the Senate. It’s simple majorities in both houses. Evan Nappen 02:16 This bill is very exciting. This law on silencers goes back to the 1934 National Firearms Act, and here we are, all these years later, finally getting a repeal of that ridiculous law. The nomenclature, what we’re calling it, is the HPA, that’s the Hearing Protection Act. And this is really great news. By removing silencers out of the NFA, which we call suppressors today, we will be able to, throughout the country, except, of course, in New Jersey and a few other states, because they have state bans on silencers. But throughout Free America, the federal law will have been taken out by this Act, and suppressors will be able to be easily possessed in the same manner that you possess firearms in Free America. So, this is extremely exciting. Page – 1 – of 11Evan Nappen 03:29 Next move is to the Senate, and in the Senate, you will see the companion bill that should hopefully still continue to have the HPA in it, legalizing, for lack of a better word here, silencers. Also, we’re hopeful that we can see in the Senate the addition of the of the SHORT (Stop Harassing Owners of Rifles Today) Act, which is the law to legalize short barrel rifles, short barrel shotguns and any other weapons also within the NFA, the National Firearms Act. If we can get those removed as well, that will cut the National Firearms Act down to just covering machine guns and destructive devices. So, that’s very exciting. Every bit of progress is extremely welcome. And even just getting silencers removed is a huge step forward. As the rest of America freely acquires silencers so that they become in total common use that enhances our ability to knock out New Jersey’s law as unconstitutional, even in litigation. Evan Nappen 04:54 So, this is a great step forward, and the fun thing here is the politics of it in a way. We talked last week about how there was controversy with Silencer Central over it, but that has been overcome. Originally they were just lowering the tax, which was $200, to zero. Well, now it removes from NFA silencers and suppressors. And what’s interesting is in a reconciliation bill that is not subject to those, particularly Democrat tactics in the Senate, where they would kill a bill like this, it’s immune to that. Reconciliation bills have to be based on taxation. They have to be taxation related to what gets passed. And here’s where the irony is, sweet, sweet irony. And that is because the National Firearms Act, when it was passed in the ’30s, was not based on interstate commerce. It was based on the power of taxation. That’s why ATF was through Treasury, because they were handling taxation, and they essentially passed anti- Second Amendment gun laws using the power of taxation. That’s why there was a $200 tax, and the procedure you had to go through to pay the tax. Evan Nappen 06:21 Remember back in the ’30s, a $200 tax was exorbitant. Very few people could afford $200 as just the tax, no less. So, over time, in terms of money and inflation, $200 was not the exorbitant sum that it was in the ’30s, but you still had the gun control foundation. The Federal power of it is taxation. Well, here we go with reconciliation, where they can address issues of taxation. So, now we get to turn the tables on them by utilizing the fact that silencers and, for that matter, short barrel rifles, short barrel shotguns and any other weapons, are tax laws. And using reconciliation, we can remove them and avoid cloture, filibuster, etc. It is really wonderful to see. This is very exciting. This first major step out of the house is quite an accomplishment, and our great gun rights organizations that partake in lobbying fiercely, including NRA and GOA and others, did a great job here. We’ve got to give them a lot of thanks, and let’s hold the line. Let’s get the Senate to not only pass the HPA, but also the SHORT Act. Let’s get all these taken out of the NFA while we have this great opportunity. President Trump will absolutely sign this big, beautiful bill, and its beauty just got tremendously enhanced for those who love the Second Amendment. Teddy Nappen 08:04 Out of curiosity, just kind of the $200 tax. Has there ever been a challenge just in terms of Court arguments, it being like a poll tax? Essentially, back then, it would have been only the super elite who would have been able to afford it. Would there have been any challenges that could have been made? Page – 2 – of 11Evan Nappen 08:25 Well, the original Second Amendment case, ironically and interestingly, that made it to the U.S. Supreme Court was the Miller decision. (United States v. Miller, 307 US 174 (1939)) The Miller decision was a challenge to the legitimacy of the NFA to use the power of taxation so that the federal government could regulate things that normally folks would say the federal government has no business being involved in. Because prior to the ’30s, the idea of a federal law on firearms or things involving firearms would seem to be unheard of. It would be something that would have been left to the states. But in their greed for power, federally, they said, hey, let’s try out taxation as one of the federal powers, and let’s see if we can get gun laws passed using the power of taxation. Under the Miller decision, it was upheld. And the Miller decision was based on some bad guys that had sawed-off shotguns, which we’re looking to get repealed, by the way, under the SHORT Act, ironically. Evan Nappen 09:37 And in the Miller case, those folks that were the defendants, they didn’t even bother to put an argument forward to the Supreme Court. They could care less. They were criminals. It was just being pursued so that they could get the Supreme Court to talk about the power of taxation as a federal power, because they wanted to use it to enforce things like the Harrison Drug Act. So, this was more than anything, a power grab. And, yes, the power of taxation was upheld, so they could do this. But ironically now, because it is all about taxation, it gives us the power to remove it under reconciliation. And that is why it absolutely falls under what’s called the Senator Byrd rule, where reconciliation has to involve issues of taxation. Well, these fall solidly within that, thank you. And therefore, this can happen under this legislative procedure, which really paves the way for us to be successful here. So, it’s very exciting, and it’s full of ironic twists. And yet, here we are. It will be a great day when this is signed. It’ll be amazingly historic to see a chunk or chunks of the 1934 National Firearms Act actually removed by the federal government, and particularly, by the signature of President Trump. That will be quite a day. We’re looking forward to seeing it. Teddy Nappen 11:14 I’m also kind of curious, because just in terms of the public, I haven’t seen, aside from, you know, all the gun talks with all the groups talking about it. But I haven’t seen like The Trace. I haven’t seen it reach the public eye about suppressors. It seems like it’s just, everyone just says, big, beautiful bill. Evan Nappen 11:34 Well, the anti-gun, one of the anti-gun rights groups, one of the gun rights oppression groups did counter this. I think it was one. I don’t remember. I don’t think it was. It wasn’t The Trace, per se, but one of the groups came out, and here’s their response to this. Oh, I think it was the national it was, it was one of those phony, so-called pro-gun groups that are actually anti-gun that put this out. They make believe they’re a gun-rights group, when really they’re a left wing Democrat phony group that is composed of sportsmen and fuds and Democrats that supposedly cherish our Second Amendment rights. Except that every chance they try to cut it down and oppress us, but that group said, oh no, no. We don’t need to make silencers and suppressors legal. You can just wear ear plugs. You just need ear plugs. Just ear plugs. That’s all, and that’s all it takes, folks. Earplugs. You don’t need silencers. Well, except, of course, the fact that and, Teddy, you’re going to talk about this a little bit later even. Except, say, like when you’re hunting and you want to listen for game, and you want to listen for even Page – 3 – of 11maybe other hunters if you’re going to drive game. You want to be alert and have your full hearing capacity, and when you want to shoot your gun, you don’t want to blow your ears out. Well, damn, that’s a great use for a suppressor. As a matter of fact, Teddy is going to discuss it was one of the primary reasons it was invented. But they can conveniently ignore that, right? Teddy Nappen 13:20 Yeah. Or currently where, if you’re in a self-defense situation in your home, you don’t want to blow your ears out in your home and you pull your suppressed pistol. And so, you’re not, you don’t sleep with earplugs on. You know. Evan Nappen 13:34 Exactly. And when it comes to a home defense gun, a silenced or suppressed gun is ideal for just that reason. You don’t have to have your hearing protection. It will make it so you can listen for noises and other threats that may take place in the home. It not only will reduce sound but also reduce flash. It makes it so that, if you’re smart in your home rig, in a suppressor-legal state, a great round is a .45. Although there are a lot of nines that are suppressed. But the problem is, you want to keep things subsonic. So, with nine, you got to go under 1000 feet, where nine performs best at higher velocities, right? But your standard .45 load has a larger, heavier bullet that is in a standard load subsonic. So, if you have a suppressed .45 and that’s your home rig, that’s a great setup. You’re not going to have over penetration. You’re going to have massive stopping power. You’re going to have the advantage of the suppressor, suppressing sound and flash. And it’s great. That’s an excellent point, Teddy, absolutely. And we’ll get a little bit more into that in your Press Checks. I understand you have some very interesting things to talk about regarding that. Evan Nappen 14:55 Let me mention though our friends at WeShoot. WeShoot is running some special Memorial Day sales, by the way. To honor our men and women who fought for freedom and, of course, the American Way and those that need our continued support. We always cherish their sacrifice. Well, WeShoot is running some really great specials, including $449 for 1000 rounds of .223. That’s a good deal. $245 for 1000 rounds of 9 millimeter. They have a bunch of other cool things going on. They’re helping to support the Tunnel to Towers Foundation and Folds of Honor. Also, they are offering some great training. On Sunday, June 8, they have the New Jersey NRA Carry Training. You can lock in your spot, and you can also do your renewals for CCARE. You can even get your Utah non-resident carry, plus Florida, Virginia, and Arizona, as add ons. WeShoot is offering tremendous training and certifications. They have a great pro shop, great deals and a great range where Teddy and I shoot. Check out their website at weshootusa.com, their fabulous website with awesome photos and lots of great info. So, make sure you go to WeShoot. They’re conveniently located in Lakewood, New Jersey, right off the parkway. It’s a great resource and a great place to shoot. And that’s WeShoot. Evan Nappen 16:52 Let me also mention our good friends at the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. They are the number one stalwart defenders of our gun rights in New Jersey. They’re in the federal courts, litigating, trying to knock out these evil suppression gun laws, and they are also on guard at the legislature, with a full-time paid lobbyist there. Watching and alerting us so that we can take steps to Page – 4 – of 11fight these rights suppressionists as they continue to try to oppress us and take away our precious rights. The Association is your number one gun rights group. You need to belong. Everybody should be a member. It’s an umbrella organization of all the gun clubs that are members of the Association. You can go to anjrpc.org. Please join today. Be part of the solution by joining anjrpc.org. Evan Nappen 17:58 Of course, I want to shamelessly plug my book, which is New Jersey Gun Law, the Bible of New Jersey gun law. It is over 500 pages with 120 topics, all in a question and answer format. It is the book to keep you from becoming a GOFU in New Jersey. If you want to avoid that, you need my book. It’s the source. And when you get the book, make sure you never loan it to anybody. Because you’ll never get it back. I hear that all the time. And if you want to get a copy of the key to staying legal in Jersey, go to EvanNappen.com. EvanNappen.com. You’ll see the big orange book there, click it, and it’ll be in your possession in a matter of days. When you get it, scan the front cover, the QR code, and join my free subscriber base. When you join, you get access to all the updates and the archive. You can immediately download the 2025 Comprehensive Update, which is done in chapter form with a bonus chapter, a standalone sensitive places chapter. So, you’ll know where you can carry with your New Jersey carry permit. Now, Teddy, your Press Checks folds right into our discussion on silencers. Tell us about Press Checks. Go right ahead, man. I’m looking forward to it. Teddy Nappen 19:19 So, we know that Press Checks are always free, and I was flipping through BearingArms, of course. I love the start of it. (https://bearingarms.com/tomknighton/2025/05/22/suppressor-delisting-in-big- beautiful-budget-bill-n1228679) “That’s right, boys and girls, suppressors delisting is back. Delisting is back in the budget and approved by the House. So, I just want to give credit to BearingArms, our friends, there. But it got me kind of thinking about the history of suppressors. Like, when did it all begin? What was the start of it all? And it actually goes back to, from Historical Firearms, I pulled from their page. (https://www.historicalfirearms.info/post/142864103092/inventors-and-their-guns-hiram-percy- maxim-hiram) Hiram Percy Maxim. Hiram. Hiram, sorry. Hiram, sorry, my accent is too thick. Hiram Percy Maxim, the son of Hiram Maxim, who invented the machine gun, is best known for his silencers. Evan Nappen 20:15 Ah, wait. Let’s talk for a minute about the Maxim, the Maxim machine gun. He invented that, and it was so devastating. He invented it to end all wars. He believed that that gun would end all wars, because no one would ever charge one of these guns. Why would you? It would just end wars. No one would ever want to fight if they were facing machine guns. And he was, unfortunately, wrong in that. Teddy Nappen 20:43 Let me grab my whistle and everyone start running. Evan Nappen 20:47 You’re running and get cut down by Maxim guns. Yeah. Page – 5 – of 11Teddy Nappen 20:52 Yeah. And what was interesting is, he was granted a series of patents from 1909 to 1920. He was selling the firearm suppressors through the Maxim Silent Firearms Company, which later became Maxim Silencer Company. Now, the one model that took everything by storm was the Model 1910 suppressor. It had a centrally aligned internal channel and instead used an offset or a centric design. It had an added benefit of not obstructing the weapon’s sites. Evan Nappen 21:32 So, what’s interesting is the early Maxim suppressor does not have the hole directly in the center as we’re used to on today’s suppressors that are a tube with a hole in the center. The hole is actually off center, toward the top. More toward the top of the circle. So that the bottom almost looks like kind of a belly. And what’s really great is that was done so it didn’t obstruct sites. Now they don’t seem to make suppressors utilizing that design too much today, but it was very smart, because then you don’t have to have your sights raised and all that to have the suppressor. So, if you ever see a Maxim suppressor, it does look different because of that. Teddy Nappen 22:17 Yeah, and I also thought it was interesting that it didn’t use. There were no threaded barrels for that. So, what he developed is a coupling device, which would be placed over the muzzle to offer the external thread. So, I do love this one. He listed in the brochure when you buy it that one of the most difficult things to do is it could not be disassembled for cleaning. So, it’s recommended you run it through hot water. Evan Nappen 22:50 Hey, that’s how you clean it, and you can run suppressors wet, too. It actually makes it more effective. Well, one of the original uses, and I know you’re going to talk about a number of these, but one of the original uses that they advertised for was for farmers to be able to shoot rats in the hen house without disturbing egg production. So, that’s a pretty good one. What else did you find? Teddy Nappen 23:16 Well, I’ve got to give Maxim credit. He wrote a lot of different books. And one book, “Experiences With the Maxim Silencer” is compiled of letters from sportsmen and hunters who had used his silencer. The whole idea is him developing the system, and this is part of the forward, to “meet my personal desire to enjoy target practice without creating a disturbance. I have always loved to shoot, but I never thoroughly enjoyed it when I knew the noise was annoying other people.” You know, just to be nice to your neighbors. Evan Nappen 23:56 Well, that’s true, and not disturb yourself even. But you know, he actually got the inspiration and the invention of the silencer from his bathtub. This is true. He wanted to create a way of silencing. And what he did was, he was looking at the drain on the tub, and he saw the whirlpool that was created in the drain. And he thought to himself, hey, wait, that slows the water down. I wonder if I could create a whirlpool with the airflow to slow the gasses down so it wouldn’t make the bang. He was actually Page – 6 – of 11inspired by his bathtub to invent the silencer, and that story is reiterated and written in that really cool book you found, Teddy. What book do you find? Teddy Nappen 24:58 “Experiences with the Maxim Silencer.” That’s the book. It’s extremely rare. Evan Nappen 25:05 And who wrote it? Teddy Nappen 25:07 Well, Hiram Percy Maxim. It was Hiram Percy Maxim. Evan Nappen 25:15 Hiram Piercy Maxim himself wrote it and described how he came up with a silencer. It was literally from the bathtub. It’s a really interesting book, and it’s actually online, the PDF of the book. We’ll have a link in the Gun Lawyer transcript for you to see his original book, “Experiences With the Maxim Silencer.” (https://americansuppressorassociation.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/maximletters.pdf) It’s a really cool historic document, and actually, the very things that he talks about in that book are being put forward today as our arguments to remove silencers from the NFA. You know, the facts haven’t changed, just the politics have. And there you go. Did you find any other historic uses of interest? Teddy Nappen 26:08 Oh, it’s kind of interesting. So, Small Arms Review did a whole historical breakdown. (https://smallarmsreview.com/silencers-the-u-s-army-and-the-nfa-the-early-history-of-suppressors/) A little fun fact, Theodore Roosevelt suppressed his 3030 Winchester Model 1894 with a Maxim silencer, and he would use that rifle to hunt small game while on Long Island. Evan Nappen 26:30 And he would shout “bully” every time he made a hit. I think. Teddy Nappen 26:34 Bully, of course. Evan Nappen 26:35 Bully. That’s great. Well, of course, I’m not surprised, because Teddy was, you’re a Teddy, and he was a Teddy. And Teddys are gun nuts, you know that? Teddy Nappen 26:47 Yeah. And so that was kind of the whole commercial idea. The idea was to sell it to hunters and to farmers. And what drove it, as well, was the military application. So, Maxim was competing with his rival, (Robert A.) Moore, who built his own suppressor, and they were competing for the military contract in 1912. It was for the Springfield M1903. So, they did a test, and I thought this was very interesting. So, Moore’s silencer was more accurate. However, Maxim’s was more durable. So, they, of course, bought them both. The first actual use and deployment of a Maxim suppressor was used by Page – 7 – of 11General Pershing on his Mexican expedition to hunt down Pancho Villa. He had a squad of snipers armed with suppressors with M1903s. Evan Nappen 27:49 So, wow, that’s pretty cool. Teddy Nappen 27:52 Yeah. Oh, and to make you jealous, many of the rifles were unloaded to the Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP) in the 1920s. Evan Nappen 28:01 Oh, the DCM sold suppressed, 1903s, huh? That’s sweet. That’s a sweet gun right there. Teddy Nappen 28:09 Yeah. Evan Nappen 28:10 That’s a collectible. Teddy Nappen 28:11 With a suppressor on the end. Evan Nappen 28:13 Maybe they’re out there, and when silencers are legal, they can come out of the basements and attics again. That would be cool. Hey, that is really interesting. Well, I appreciate the information you’ve shared with us, and I want to mention to our listeners an article I found that I thought was kind of fun. It was written by one of my favorite writers, Dean Weingarten, and he writes for AmmoLand. He makes a very interesting point in this article about Tungsten Super Shot (TSS). (https://www.ammoland.com/2025/05/tungsten-super-shot-could-be-anti-drone-shotgun-ammo/) Evan Nappen 28:48 Now, you can buy Tungsten Super Shot. It’s a shot shell ammo, and it’s tungsten. It’s super and it’s shot. But here’s what the article says. Tungsten super shot could be anti-drone shotgun ammo. So, he wrote a really interesting article about the idea of Tungsten Super Shot being used in ordinary shotguns and how it can be really effective, arguably, on drones. You should really read the article, and you’ll really get a kick out of this whole idea about this. As he said, small quad rotor drones may be more vulnerable. Break a rotor or motor, and they’ll come down. Hit the processor or battery, they’ll come down. It says rifles and machine guns have plenty of power, but not sufficient projectiles to be a serious threat unless they’re tied to a fire control system with radar or LIDAR. So, shotguns with TSS, which is the shorthand for this Tungsten Super Shot, TSS, offers a cheap possibility for short range protection against small drones. Another possibility is to mount a shotgun on a Hunter Killer drone and shoot it down amongst other drones. Anyway, it’s a cool article, and it’s something I hadn’t thought of when it comes to Tungsten Super Shot. So, I thought I’d share that. Page – 8 – of 11Teddy Nappen 30:23 Remember when Amazon was trying to push the idea of having their packages delivered by drones? Evan Nappen 30:32 Yeah. Teddy Nappen 30:32 Yeah. So, there was the running gag of trap shooting with prizes. Evan Nappen 30:37 Ha, ha, ha. That’s a good one. Shooting with prizes. I have a letter here from Ask Evan. We love the letters. This is from Barry. Barry says, hey, big fan here. My question is as follows. If a person is lawfully carrying a concealed firearm in NJ and is questioned about their present state of sobriety, does law enforcement have the ability to do a field sobriety test, even though there’s no proof of using substances, driving or having committed no crime, for that matter, like a breathalyzer? So, that’s a good question. Evan Nappen 31:14 Let’s look at it in two parts. First of all, what if you’re questioned? Well, number one, you have no obligation to answer law enforcement questions. You have a Fifth Amendment right to remain silent. I suggest you do so. New Jersey imposes a duty upon us to reveal that you have a firearm on your person. Right? A duty to disclose, and you have to have your permit and show the officer. But you’re not required to answer any other questions about your gun or your state of being. Asking whether you consumed alcohol, you have absolutely no obligation to answer those questions. Evan Nappen 31:43 And the idea of being able to be tested for sobriety, ah, well, this is not like driving. You see, with driving, we have what is called implied consent. Supposedly, when you get a driver’s license, somehow we’ve all consented, even though you didn’t know you did, but we’ve all consented, to allowing for breathalyzer, even blood to be drawn if necessary to determine alcohol content. It’s called implied consent, and it’s part of our motor vehicle laws. However, with firearms, there is no implied consent law. So, since there’s no implied consent, without probable cause or even your permission, forget it. You have no obligation to submit to a sobriety test. You have no obligation to speak. They cannot just say, hey, we want to test you. You’re carrying a gun. We need to see if you have any alcohol in you at all. Nope, can’t do it. There’s no law allowing that. Evan Nappen 33:10 Now, there is a ban in New Jersey on having alcohol and carrying a gun. You can’t be drinking or be drunk or have alcohol in your system at all. There isn’t even a limit. It can even be the minutest amount. They didn’t set any type of limits, as they do for cars. But they also do not have any implied consent built into the law where you have to submit to that kind of testing. So, that’s a good question. Keep it in mind. You do not have to submit to testing, and you do not have to answer any questions along those lines. Always stand on your Fifth Amendment right to remain silent and your Sixth Amendment right to counsel. The only thing in questioning which they can ask, and you need to give is pedigree, pedigree Page – 9 – of 11information. In other words, your name and arguably your address, that kind of thing. But nothing else other than your pedigree information is allowed to be gleaned. Evan Nappen 34:12 Now, for this week’s GOFU, which is the Gun Owner Fuck Up, where we look at actual cases and scenarios where individuals get into trouble, and we don’t want you to get into trouble. I have a letter here, and this is from John regarding Red Flag laws. John says, my 13 year old ran away, but he’s home now. We had contacted the police. Does this subject me to Red Flag laws? Now, what New Jersey has is not officially called a “Red Flag Law”. It’s called an ERPO, that is an Extreme Risk Protection Order. It begins as a TERPO, a Temporary Extreme Risk Protection Order, in which there’s no due process. If somebody makes any kind of allegation that you’re a danger to yourself or others, they can issue this TERPO without any due process. You have no say in it whatsoever. They will come and raid your house. They’ll take your guns and possibly even take you away for a wellness check based on it. Evan Nappen 35:14 Then you finally get your day in court at a hearing for a Final Extreme Risk Protection Order (FERPO) to see if that gets issued. The acronyms fall under, it’s an ERPO, right? That starts as a TERPO, and then it can eventually become a FERPO. And by the way, if it happens in Bergen County, it’s a BURPO. Just kidding about that. But beware of that. So, red flag is something that can get done. Now, will this situation necessarily result in an ERPO? Not necessarily but depending on to what degree the police or others want to take it, depending on what other facts may be there. Evan Nappen 35:59 And this is where the GOFU is. You’ve got to remember and be careful anytime law enforcement gets involved in your life, or you involve them in your life. It can escalate. It can escalate over the silliest things said, and anytime you’re dealing with this situation, there can be risk. And next thing you know, you have DCPP, you know, it used to be DYFS, over this situation. And then they’re asking if you have guns in the house. Listen, do not respond to these questions. You have no obligation to do that. Call an attorney right away. Because anything you say then escalates to gun seizure, and I’ve seen it over and over again. So, the answer to John’s questions generally is, yeah, it can lead to it. It depends more on the facts of the situation. But in New Jersey, it’s extremely common to have the Government immediately want to take guns and want to take away your rights, and at the least excuse, they seem to do it. We get these cases all the time, every day. It’s just amazing how much of a rampage New Jersey is on to not just disenfranchise us of our gun rights, but to steal our guns as well. It comes with living in the Democratic People’s Republic of New Jersey. So, beware. Evan Nappen 37:26 Remember that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens. Page – 10 – of 11Speaker 2 37:35 Gun Lawyer is a Counter Think Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state. Page – 11 – of 11 Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S3 E239_Transcript About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets. Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News. As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists. He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America. 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Episode 238-Business and Gun Laws Don’t Protect Your Rights Also Available OnSearchable Podcast TranscriptGun Lawyer– Episode 238 SUMMARY KEYWORDS Gun laws, financial interests, NFA modification, silencers, Hearing Protection Act, reconciliation bill, business model, deregulation, gun rights, overcriminalization, President Trump, ATF budget, gun transport, holster security. SPEAKERS Teddy Nappen, Evan Nappen, Speaker 2 Evan Nappen 00:14 I’m Evan Nappen. Teddy Nappen 00:16 And I’m Teddy Nappen. Evan Nappen 00:18 And welcome to Gun Lawyer. One of the things I’ve observed over, oh, almost 40 years of fighting for gun rights and fighting for law-abiding citizens to save their rights and being an activist and a student of gun laws, generally, and gun rights suppression is there are times when business interests of what we might normally think of as folks that would be pro-our gun rights. Sometimes, financial incentives can get in the way of that, and it can cause issues that create laws or keep laws that you would like to otherwise to get rid of when financial interests have kind of evolved from the laws themselves. Now, on one hand, I might even say, hey, I practice gun law. What if all the gun laws went away? What would you do? Do I want to have gun laws? And I’m like, no, I don’t. I’m like a cancer doctor. I’m not pro- cancer, and we have to fight the cancer that exists. But if all the gun laws went away, I’d be very happy, and I’d find something else to do. You know, something else that is a passion and an interest. Evan Nappen 01:59 Now, they’re not all going away, but I don’t have an actual interest in seeing more gun laws. I want to see less gun laws. I want to see our rights. I believe in this with my heart and soul. But, you know, some businesses and all that have really heavy financial interests in certain laws sometimes that can not necessarily be the case. So, there’s an interesting story that I picked up in AmmoLand, which was by John Crump. (https://www.ammoland.com/2025/05/silencer-centrals-suppressor-lobbying-sparks- controversy-over-nfa-deregulation-stance/) It talks about a controversy that we’re dealing with right now that kind of points out this issue. Now I’m not sure whether the business interest here is absolutely impacting our rights, but there’s a controversy where there’s a claim, arguably, that it is. Evan Nappen 03:00 Let me tell you what’s going on. So, we have federally pending right now in the big, beautiful bill by President Trump, what is part of what they call “reconciliation”, where we can get things done that’s Page – 1 – of 13very important to get done. Because with reconciliation, there’s no cloture. There’s no ability to have the so-called filibuster rule, where we’ve got to get 60 votes in the Senate. It can pass with simple majorities, and currently, the Republicans have those majorities, at least in theory, in both houses. Otherwise, you can rest assured that the gun rights oppressors that are the Democrats will try to stop anything that tries to get rid of oppressive gun laws. So, reconciliation is politically important. Evan Nappen 03:58 One of the issues that is circulating at the moment is modifying and changing the NFA, the National Firearms Act, to take silencers out of the National Firearms Act. To take short barrel rifles, short barrel shotguns and such out of it. And given the abuses, particularly that came with pistol brace reinterpretations and, you know, short barrel shotguns is such a phony baloney issue when we have shock waves and the like out there that the average person cannot even tell the difference. They’re not exorbitantly, in any way, in any other way, causing more problems than any other gun. I mean, it’s just ridiculous the way they focus on objects. Anything they can ban; they want to keep banned. Evan Nappen 04:50 So, here we have this potential opportunity, particularly when it comes to silencers. Because there’s been a huge movement throughout the United States to take silencers out of NFA and to put silencers where they belong as simply a firearm accessory. We have the SHORT (Stop Harassing Owners of Rifles Today) Act and the Hearing Protection Act (HPA), so that we can have silencers to protect our hearing, and silencers are really excellent for this. Because you can shoot at the range and not have to have hearing protection on. You can hunt with silencers. There are so many states that have legalized silencer hunting. You can listen for game carefully, listen for other hunters, even, and it’s much safer. You don’t blow your ears out when you shoot. So, we’re saving our hearing and making so it’s easier to hear range commands and safety at the range. There are so many advantages. Evan Nappen 05:53 The way the media has traditionally portrayed suppressors has just been a complete falsehood. You know they don’t go psst, psst, psst. You know that isn’t how silencers work. They still make a noise. It’s just that the level of noise is reduced to the degree that it doesn’t blow your freaking ears out. You still make plenty of noise. And if any of you have shot suppressed firearms, you know that noise is produced. And yes, we’re always trying to get it quieter and better, but they are not silent. It is suppressed, but not silent. So, with all these advantages and the amazing leaps that silencers have taken in public acceptance and unbelievably great utilitarian value, the opportunity now pushed hard by the ASA, American Silencer Association, and all, you know, is really paying off. We have this opportunity to finally get, hopefully, the NFA, that archaic law from the ’30s that imposed a $200 tax and registration and this whole ridiculous additional paperwork that’s completely unnecessary in a modern age. We have the ability to do an instant check on guns, and if suppressors were taken out of NFA and simply put on a 4473, let’s say, just the same way you buy a rifle, shotgun or handgun, then it would make it available for others. Now I don’t even think they should be regulated at all. It’s simply an accessory but at least take them out of that entire glorious bureaucratic federal nightmare called the National Firearms Act. Evan Nappen 07:45 Page – 2 – of 13So, here in the reconciliation bill, we’ve had some great gun groups, particularly Gun Owners of America (GOA) and the American Silencer Association (ASA) and others, pushing this genuine opportunity to possibly get the NFA changed. And given the political landscape here, we could get these things finally, once and for all, removed. And keep in mind that reconciliation deals with money and taxes, and the basis for the NFA is tax station. So, the argument that gun laws can’t be modified in reconciliation actually falls flat on its face and cuts against it hard, because the origination of the jurisdiction for these laws is taxation. So, the opportunity legally is there. Evan Nappen 08:45 Yet, what happened, and this is from this article, is a controversy has arisen, a controversy in which Silencer Central, which is one of the largest sellers and manufacturers of suppressors in the U.S. There are claims, and again, not saying that this is true or not, I’m just reading from the article that the business model of Silencer Central is somewhat reliant upon an exemption in the NFA, the National Firearms Act. If you follow through with the federal regulations in terms of registration and all the requirements, they can ship suppressors lawfully direct to your door. You can’t do that with firearms. Firearms have to be over the counter from a dealer, but suppressors, even though they’re NFA, can be sold directly to individuals that follow the proper federal procedures. And by taking silencers out of the NFA, apparently, this business model of Silencer Central will be greatly impacted, and the claims are that they have apparently tried to stop this. And whether or not that’s true, I believe the company disputes it, and I’m not taking a position one way or another. But it is true that they have an economic interest in maintenance of the current system based on their business model. So, I don’t know whether it’s true or not. But it does raise the issue of the impact of businesses on our gun rights that I’ve seen historically, even in the past, and we’ve had issues similar to this that were raised. Evan Nappen 10:58 And so, right now, the reconciliation bill apparently has been amended so that instead of removing silencers from the NFA, they simply lowered the tax from $200 to $5. Sure, it’s great that we no longer have to pay $200 and we only pay $5. But money is hardly the big issue when it comes to NFA. Originally, when the NFA was passed, a $200 tax was exorbitant, and only the wealthy in the 1930s would be able to afford to pay such a tax. So, it operated essentially as a ban on most of the public by the excessive taxation. The $200 tax applied to machine guns, silencers and other NFA weapons. But today, $200, essentially, is a good dinner at a great place with your partner there, and it’s not, you know, the same in terms of the value of money. But, hey, do I like to save $195 when I want to buy a suppressor? Sure, that’s great. But what I’d really love to see is the NFA finally given its due, and removal of these items from the NFA. And as we start taking things out of the NFA, we could eventually remove even full auto, hopefully. So, this is what’s supposed to go, but currently, that’s not the case. As the reconciliation bill stands at this moment, it’s simply a reduction in the tax itself, but the NFA stays in place and there’s controversy. Evan Nappen 12:43 Now, the official response from Silencer Central, which I have quoted here from AmmoLand, says “Silencer Central is closely monitoring the ongoing congressional hearings surrounding the Hearing Protection Act (HPA)”, which is the bill that would remove silences from the NFA. “We have always been vocal supporters of the HPA, as well as the current proposed provision of a $0 tax stamp.” So, Page – 3 – of 13maybe it’ll get lowered to no tax. “Our priority has always been, and will continue to be, advocating for deregulation and 2nd amendment rights, while supporting any win we can get for our customers regarding their firearm and accessory ownership rights along the way. Regardless of the ever-changing regulatory landscape, we remain focused on delivering exceptional service and standing by the community we’re proud to be part of.” And that was Brandon Maddox, CEO, Silencer Central. Evan Nappen 13:39 I can understand wanting to get any win we can get, and remember, that’s not a bad philosophy. We can’t make perfect the enemy of good. We lost our rights incrementally, and often we have to regain them incrementally. So, I don’t know what the actual story is here, but it raises in a historical context where I’ve seen this before. I mean, the original NFA, ultimately, when it came to what we’ll essentially call a ban, even though it was technically banned, but this exorbitant tax. I mean, you realize that it was actually supported at the time, on record by Auto Ordinance and by Colt, testifying to the committees in favor of it, folks. In favor of it. Because the civilian market wasn’t that large. They wanted military and law enforcement, of course, and this became something more of economics at the time. Evan Nappen 14:36 We saw this again in 1968 when it came to the banning of imported firearms. You had the United States gun manufacturers, major U.S. gun makers in favor of the restrictions on importation. Why? Because it helped their business. They didn’t care about its impact across the board and our ability to own a variety of firearms from all over the world. They wanted to protect their business interests. We saw it again when Smith & Wesson did their infamous Rose Garden ceremony. Teddy Nappen 15:13 And with Ruger. Evan Nappen 15:18 Well, Ruger was, way back when, the assault fireman magazine ban, was pending. You know, Ruger came out through the Heritage Foundation, I believe. At the time, Heritage Foundation and all that they were not opposed to magazine restrictions. And again, why? Because, you know, the guns Ruger was primarily making at the time wasn’t concerned with a 15 round mag. At the time, but Ruger is not that anymore. But back then, because the gun was, you know, essentially the Mini-14, and they had already restricted it on their own, primarily to law enforcement. They eventually opened up to civilians, but they weren’t opposed to, at the time, the magazine restriction. Because that wasn’t their main goal, you know. Evan Nappen 16:10 We saw it again with Smith & Wesson, with the Rose Garden, the so-called infamous Rose Garden ceremony, supporting gun locks on guns, locking up guns. When Smith had their patented internal lock system and all that. And that backfired on them big time. I mean, it ended up causing people, it harmed the brand significantly. That was a backfire. But, you know, business interests can sometimes influence gun rights, and it’s something we always have to be cognizant of. Like I said, I’m not sure in the silencer controversy, what is the truth or not, but there is definitely potential for this to be the case. It’s something to be aware of as we fight for our rights. Page – 4 – of 13Evan Nappen 16:54 I want to give you a couple important news updates, and of course, Teddy will be giving us his Press Check segment very shortly. I want to mention something really, really significant about President Trump and just some of the great things he’s doing. And this is more than just guns, but it absolutely can affect firearms. President Trump has taken steps over the “absurd and unjust consequences of overcriminalization”. And this, too, is an article out of AmmoLand. (https://www.ammoland.com/2025/05/president-trump-decries-absurd-consequences-of- overcriminalization/) You can read it by Jacob Sullum, and it’s very interesting. He points out this particularly this one egregious case where federal prosecutors have charged a person named (Michelino) Sunseri with a misdemeanor punishable by up to six months in jail. And what did this person do? They used a trail in the National Park Service described as closed, even though they never bothered to clearly inform about it. He unwittingly. He had no knowledge. He didn’t know, and he violated one of the thousands of federal gun, federal regulations, and they carry criminal penalties. All the federal regulations here that can still be criminally enforced. Even though he had no intention whatsoever of violating it, this creates a huge proliferation of agency-defined crime. Evan Nappen 18:40 These regulations are passed without Congress passing them and without being signed by the President. They’re done by fiat, ultimately almost by the agencies just promulgating regulations that carry criminal penalties. And you may say, well, how many of these exist? According to the article, Supreme Court Justice Neil Gorsuch and coauthor Janie Nitze note, in their 2024 book on “the human toll of too much law”, estimates suggest there are 300,000 federal agency regulations that carry criminal sanctions. No one can possibly know these laws. There’s another great book out there called “Three Felonies a Day (How the Feds Target the Innocent” by Harvey A. Silvergat). We each commit at least three felonies a day, and we don’t even know it. So, I’m happy to see that President Trump, by Executive Order, has taken steps to require that prosecutions by the Justice Department require a showing that there is going to be an intentional violation and that these should not be regarded as strict liability defenses. President Trump says the status quo is absurd and unjust, and it allows the Executive Branch to write law in addition to executing it. So, I’m glad to see that taking place here. Evan Nappen 20:18 Another quick news headline I want to mention, which is quasi a GOFU, but not our official GOFU of the show, is about a Texas mom who purchased ammo for her mass shooter-obsessed son. Now this is from the aggregate news of “Not the Bee”. (https://notthebee.com/article/texas-mom-purchased- ammunition-for-mass-shooter-obsessed-son-who-was-going-to-be-famous-before-grandma-turned-him- in) So, you probably heard of the Babylon Bee. They do parodies, and they’re hilarious. I love the Bee. You probably love the Bee, too, if you know what I’m talking. But they have another thing they put out called “Not the Bee”, where they have articles that should be Babylon Bee articles, but they’re not, because they’re real. So, they’re often even more funny and shocking, although this is really something here. This San Antonio mom, who you should see her picture. Oh, my God. Purple hair, face tattoos, all over the place. Oh, boy. Evan Nappen 21:13 Page – 5 – of 13Anyway, what she did was. Teddy Nappen 21:14 A LARPing, a LARPing communist, if you will. Evan Nappen 21:17 So, whatever. I don’t know. But she, apparently, was arrested because they did an investigation into threats by her son, who’s a student at Rhodes Middle School on the inner west side. He had a fascination with past mass shooters, and he was found to have ammunition, a makeshift explosive and a note referencing mass shooting incidents. And the note was for Brenton Tarrant, who was the perp in the New Zealand mosque shooting. Apparently, the grandmother, not the mother, happened to hear him saying that he was going to be famous, and the grandmother reported what was going on. The affidavit says that he admitted he got ammunition from his mother, who had been taking him to a surplus store and bought him tactical gear in exchange for babysitting his younger siblings. Documents described the items purchased included magazines and tactical gear and helmets and all kinds of stuff. Then threats that were made by the son were there, and now she is facing the charge, the mother, of aiding in the commission of terrorism, after officials say that she helped her son gather items found to have been used in other acts of mass violence. Evan Nappen 22:58 So, keep in mind, folks. Now look, we love our youth and training our youth to shoot, and all the joys of firearms and hunting and shooting, and that’s good. But something like this, where it’s going off the rails, you better really be careful, because you can end up having a serious problem. Teddy Nappen 23:20 One thing I’m just kind of curious about is, could this spin off? I know they’ve been trying their best to go after gun dealers for, you know, for people, they’ve used guns for the shootings. But could this go as far as a private sale at some point, and then they try to accuse you of aiding and abetting? Evan Nappen 23:42 Yes. So, one of the things here, of course, is that yes, it could be ripe for abuse. I could well see law- abiding gun owners who had no intent of being the way this mother allegedly appears to have been acting and then trying to make out that the otherwise law-abiding gun owner was engaging in this behavior when in fact, they weren’t. Never underestimate the abuse that can take place when it comes to a gun rights oppressors trying to disenfranchise law-abiding citizens of their gun rights. But in this particular case, at least from what the article says, it seems that the mother was not being real smart here to say the least. Teddy Nappen 24:27 Yeah, there was the one. I’m trying to remember, which of the shootings, but there was one where the guy essentially broke into his parents safe and stole the gun. Evan Nappen 24:36 And, yeah, that’s a whole different thing. Page – 6 – of 13Teddy Nappen 24:40 They also wanted to go after the parents. Evan Nappen 24:41 Yeah, and they did. So, these are the kinds of things that, of course, can. Where they use these things to then essentially be a straw man for law enforcement against the law-abiding. And that is something that we might see. You never know. It’s possible. So, we do have to be very vigilant at all times. But let me mention something that you may want to take advantage of, and that is regarding our friends at WeShoot. WeShoot is offering a free dessert, and this dessert is very interesting. They have friends at The Butchers Steakhouse, which is a New Jersey Kosher fine-dining destination. When you go to The Butchers Steakhouse and mention WeShoot, you’ll get a free dessert. This way you could have really a great date night, as WeShoot pointed out. You can go to the range, and then you can go out for a great meal. WeShoot does highly recommend the molten chocolate cake, just in case you’re wondering what you should get. Evan Nappen 25:53 And keep in mind, WeShoot is an indoor range in Lakewood. It’s where both Teddy and I shoot as well. We love it there. They have great training, a great pro shop, and great service. WeShoot is a resource that you should take advantage of. It’s hard enough finding great places to shoot in New Jersey, but WeShoot is one of them. They’re conveniently located right in Lakewood, right off the parkway. You can get your CCARE certificate to get your carry, and you’re able to get plenty of other training, too. Or just enjoy a great day at the range. So, you want to check out WeShoot at weshootusa.com. They have a great website, beautiful photographs, and all kinds of great deals on guns and specials. Check out WeShoot. Try out we shoot. You’ll really be glad you did. Evan Nappen 26:52 And, of course, living in New Jersey means we constantly have to be vigilant about our rights, and one of the ways to do that is to be a member of the state Association. When I call it the state Association, I’m talking about the official NRA affiliate for our state, and that is the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol clubs, anjrpc.org. You need to be a member. They are the premier gun rights organization in New Jersey. They are out there every day defending our rights with a full-time paid lobbyist in Trenton. They’re litigating, as we speak, in federal court, defending our gun rights. Fighting the oppression that New Jersey has placed upon us regarding semi-auto firearms and standard capacity magazines, and, of course, trying to restrict our rights under the Carry Killer law. The Association is there battling these, as we speak, and on guard in Trenton. Be part of the solution, folks. Join the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol clubs. You’ll get their email updates, and you’ll get sent very simple things you can do to notify your legislators of your view on pending legislation to really make a difference. You’ll get a fantastic printed newsletter, the best in the state, and you’ll know what’s going on in New Jersey on gun rights oppression. So, join anjrpc.org. Go there and make sure you’re a member. Evan Nappen 28:24 And while you’re at it, you should also get a copy of my book, New Jersey Gun Law. It is the Bible of New Jersey gun law. It’s over 500 pages with 120 topics, all in a question-and-answer format. It is used Page – 7 – of 13all the time. I can’t tell you how many people call me and tell me that my book saved their ass. I’m not kidding. They said I didn’t know this. I didn’t know that. They use it to even explain to law enforcement at times, because they keep it in the car. No, I’m legal. Here’s why. Here’s Nappen’s book, and on and on. This book is a tool. This book can defend you. And with it being 500 pages, you could even use it as a weapon itself by hitting someone with it. I’m just kidding about that, of course. But the book is out there. It’s in the 25th Anniversary Edition. When you get the book, scan the QR code on the front, and you will immediately be able to join, for free, my subscriber base. That’s private, and you will be able to access the 2025 Comprehensive Update that fully updates the book. We’re keeping it updated. By joining, you’ll get emails of any updates. In the 2025 Comprehensive Update is a standalone chapter of “sensitive places”, where you can and can’t carry and it is current. So, help yourself and get the book. Go to EvanNappen.com, EvanNappen.com. Click on the orange book right there and order yourself a copy today. So, Teddy, what you have for us in Press Checks? Teddy Nappen 30:00 As we know, Press Checks are always free. Again, we’ve talked about a lot of the great things that President Trump has been dealing with in terms of cutting back on the Government, many of which cutting on a lot of their budget. This comes from our friends at BearingArm news. (https://bearingarms.com/camedwards/2025/05/02/trump-calls-for-big-cuts-to-atf-budget-citing-attacks- on-second-amendment-n1228505) President Trump’s budget request of 2026. He’s cutting the ATF budget down by $468 million, as opposed to their 1.62 billion. That is essentially a one-third slash to their budget. And that goes to all of their SWAT team, you know, the SWAT units that they use. Teddy Nappen 30:42 And it kind of got me to think about what was the ATF supposed to be? Like, what was the original intent? Everyone always tells me, it’s the part of the Treasury. They were just supposed to work for paperwork. And then it became this militarized wing where now they’re just knocking on doors. Well, they used to, but now I may they still are knocking on people’s doors, asking about auto sears. So, I actually went to the ATF website, and they have this giant timeline. (https://www.atf.gov/our-history/atf- history-timeline) It’s a slide show, where you slide it one after the other and reading through it, you actually see their justification. How do they envision themselves? What do they see when someone becomes an ATF agent? What do they see? Like, you know. “Let’s do some good.” So. Evan Nappen 31:37 Is that the Eliot Ness quote? Teddy Nappen 31:39 Yeah, right. From “The Untouchables. So, and we’ll get to that. The ATF timeline starts off the Act of July 31, 1789. Evan Nappen 31:50 Oh, come on. There was no ATF in 1789. Teddy Nappen 31:54 I know. Here’s the deal. They argue about the tariffs that were in place. Page – 8 – of 13Evan Nappen 32:01 Do you know why they’re putting that? Because they’re trying to fit themselves under the test for Constitutionality. To try and say, oh yeah, we existed. Yeah, right. Teddy Nappen 32:13 Yeah. It was all about because they were trying to drum up revenue after the Rev War, to pay off the war debts. Then in 1791, there was a domestic tax on spirits, which then led to the Whiskey Rebellion, in which the federal Government created a federal militia to dispatch the non-compliant distilleries. That is, where originally. Evan Nappen 32:39 Were they dog shooting during the Whiskey Rebellion? I don’t recall a lot of dog shooting taking place in the Whiskey Rebellion. Teddy Nappen 32:46 I know there. You know they were shooting dogs over non-compliant distillers. Evan Nappen 32:53 Only drunk dogs. Drunken mutts. Teddy Nappen 32:56 Yeah. But you see the early seeds of what’s laid. Now comes the Office of Internal Revenue Services created in 1862 within the Department of Treasury. One department was created to enforce the tobacco and alcohol tariffs. So, the ATF was the tariff unit. That was their deal, and they had, by the way, three detectives who hunted down the tariff evaders. That’s their term. Evan Nappen 33:27 Well, I don’t think they’re doing that now, although tariffs have become important. Maybe we should just make ATF solely deal with tariffs and lay off Second Amendment rights. Right? That might. Teddy Nappen 33:40 I know they focus in but. Evan Nappen 33:43 Well, they have quite a storied history. And I underline story. Teddy Nappen 33:47 Yeah. And then what you see comes next. On October, 3, 1917, the War Revenue Act passes, where now they’ve expanded their Bureau’s powers, and they have access to merchant books. Huh? Doesn’t that sound familiar? Teddy Nappen 34:01 Merchant books. Page – 9 – of 13Evan Nappen 34:04 Merchant books. A & D books? Acquisition and disposition books? Teddy Nappen 34:10 Wonder, what common road? Evan Nappen 34:11 Zero tolerance for any mistakes. I doubt it. Yeah, by now and yet, although maybe they did, considering how old Biden was. Teddy Nappen 34:19 Yeah. But now this is where everything kicks off. Then came the 18th Amendment, the banning of alcohol. Now what comes next was the Volstead Act, the Prohibition Enforcement Act. The Treasury agents are now enforcement agents, where they have become, and I love this term they use. The Bureau Prohibition Act of 1927 the unit to fight organized crime, the prohibition unit, which, Evan Nappen 34:48 Which, of course, prohibition just enhanced organized crime and strengthened it. Teddy Nappen 34:51 Correct. Evan Nappen 34:53 Because it gave them a product that they could make millions and millions and millions of dollars with. So, that worked out well. Oh, that was a good experiment. Teddy Nappen 35:01 I know, right? And you see what they see themselves as. Like Eliot Ness, where they’re like, you know, let’s do some good. They’re stopping organized crime. And then, I love this. Then in 1930, it shifted from the Department of Treasury to the Department of Justice. Keep that in mind. This is important because now they’ve shifted away from the Treasury. They’re in the Justice Department. Now they’re an enforcement agency, an investigative part of the Government. Then the 21st Amendment came around, which then dissolved their whole. Evan Nappen 35:42 Now they lost their whole focus. So, now they’ve got to find something to do. We can’t have a bureaucracy disappear, right? So, what did they decide they’re going to do now? Teddy Nappen 35:49 Then their unit focused on illegal distillers. Oh, all those boon gins. Yeah. And then here comes. Now all this has laid out the groundwork. In 1934, the National Firearms Act is imposed. Now they’ve got to combat gang violence favored by gangsters. The machine guns, the silencers and the sawed-off shotguns. On their website. Page – 10 – of 13Evan Nappen 36:04 There it is. So, they’re all about NFA, all about enforcing NFA. Teddy Nappen 36:27 Yeah. We’ve got to combat gang violence. Evan Nappen 36:30 You know, there is a movement to abolish the ATF. But there is some debate even among pro-gun rights folks as to whether that is not necessarily a good idea. Here’s why. Because, arguably, if we abolish ATF, it isn’t as if gun enforcement is going to go away. It’s just going to get shifted to another agency, which itself might be very good, because maybe we have other agencies that could do a better job. But in reality, if it’s just being defunded, continuously defunded, and the agency task no longer can focus on just going after Second Amendment rights and causing all kinds of problems, as they did with the Biden administration, then maybe having it limited to an agency that is not well funded might be better. Might. I’m not saying it is. Just something to argue about and think about. It might be better than completely disbanding it. Although in my gut, I would just like to see it disbanded. I know that, but it may not necessarily be the best for protecting our gun rights, which is ultimately what I care about. I want to see our rights protected and not oppressed. Well, Teddy, thank you for that update. That is very interesting and thought provoking. Evan Nappen 37:59 And speaking of thought provoking, here’s a quick thought provoking item I want to bring to my listeners’ attention. This is out of “Not the Bee” again. Really funny. And this is where it was brought to my attention. So, Neil deGrasse Tyson, who is a scientific physicist guy, and actually, I like a lot of his stuff on physics and the universe. He’s very interesting with all that, but I believe he is left wing bent, yeah. And unfortunately, you know, a guy that’s smart shouldn’t be that. But he did put this out, and I just want to share this with everybody. He made the following post. (https://notthebee.com/takes/take- neil-jesus-would-pick-the-ar-15) Evan Nappen 38:48 So, Neil Tyson. Neil deGrasse Tyson posted the following. “Been thinking a lot lately about the morals of Jesus of Nazareth.” Now, of course, he’s not. He’s the furthest thing from a religious guy. He’s a science guy. Now, whether he actually, you know, what his position is on Jesus, I don’t know. But he says he’s been thinking a lot about the morals of Jesus of Nazareth, and he’s wondering what his rifle of choice would be if he moved to America. An AR-15 or an AK-47? So, moving to America, you know, this is the underlying question, and what would Jesus’s choice be if it was between an AR-15 and an AK-47. Now, both guns are excellent. I have nothing against either of those guns, but probably, just probably, it would be the AR-15, only because it is the most popular rifle in America. You want to make sure that the most popular rifle with all the great modularity and every type of accessory and ammunition, accessibility and everything else about the AR that makes it so popular in America would be the gun of choice for Jesus. And maybe you disagree with me, and that’s fine. Evan Nappen 40:14 Page – 11 – of 13This is just thought provoking by him, but somebody did have a nice reply that I just want to share. I’m not going to get into it. If you want to read more of the biblical quotation and review of weapons and the Bible and defense, the B article has all kinds of things about that. But I just want to talk about this where it says, and this is a reply to Tyson. “Obviously, Jesus didn’t need to carry a weapon (with a word he could wipe out everyone on the planet), but I think he would tell his followers to get an AR-15, and if they didn’t have one, to sell their cloaks and buy one.” That’s not a bad reply when you think about it. So, there you go. Teddy Nappen 41:03 I was waiting for someone. Evan Nappen 41:06 To do what? Teddy Nappen 41:08 I was waiting for someone to say, who would Jesus shoot? Evan Nappen 41:12 No, that is a separate issue that Neil did not raise. So, we don’t want to go there, but what he did raise is the debate about AKs and ARS. And, you know, it is thought provoking, but selling your cloak. You know, the old for cloak to get a sword. But of course, modern day might, in America, in fact, be an AR. I’m wondering why a gun shop or gun store doesn’t offer to give, you know, a credit, maybe $100 or whatever they were thinking about, for anyone who turns in their cloak to buy an AR? They could have a great special, a great promotion. You know, maybe around the holiday time. Get yourself a gun, and we will give you a special discount, a special credit for donation of coats. The coats themselves could then be donated to the charities that distribute clothing to those who are in need of clothing. You could have folks literally turning cloaks into AR-15s. Of course, New Jersey compliant AR-15s. And if Jesus was in New Jersey, his AR would still have to be compliant. There’s no Jesus exception under New Jersey gun law. Unfortunately, that doesn’t exist either. So, there you go. Evan Nappen 42:45 I have here a letter that I want to share. We love getting the letters. This is from Scott. Scott says, hi, Evan. While transporting firearms in New Jersey, in addition to being cased and unloaded in the trunk, does there have to be a lock on the case? Same question for ammo. So, under the exemptions for transport, under subsection G., New Jersey only requires that the gun be unloaded and in a case that is closed and fastened. It does not have to be locked. Now, if you want to have it locked, that’s great, but New Jersey law doesn’t require that the case be locked. It does not require that ammo be locked either. As a matter of fact, it just can’t be in the gun. You could, in fact, have your gun in a closed and fastened case, have it completely empty, and you could fill the case with loose ammo all around the gun, as long as the gun is unloaded and in a case. I don’t suggest you pour 50 rounds of ammo all around your gun in the case. You don’t want to mess up your gun and all that. It’s dumb to do that, but it’s just to illustrate the fact that New Jersey’s exemption, not to be confused with the federal for federal preemption and other laws that restrict how you transport on airlines. We’ve talked about all that. Just New Jersey’s exemption, if you’re solely relying on the exemption, does not require that it be locked Page – 12 – of 13and it does not require that it be in the trunk. It has to be in a closed and fastened case or in the trunk. Now, if you want to put your case in the trunk, that’s good. You’re hitting two but you only need to hit one of the factors. So, unloaded and in a closed and fastened case gets you where you want to be. It doesn’t have to be locked. But if you want to have it locked, you want to have it in a case, you have to have it unloaded, and you want to have it in your trunk as well. That is all good. Belt and suspenders. When it comes to New Jersey, maximize your protection. Evan Nappen 44:53 And that brings us to the most popular segment in the show, which is the GOFU and that’s the Gun Owner Fuck Up. And we love to talk about GOFUs Because GOFUs are mistakes that gun owners make, that cost them dearly, that you get to learn for free. This week’s GOFU concerns an individual where they were stopped by police. When they got out of the car, their gun fell out of their holster, leading to an arrest. So, folks, what is the GOFU? Make sure you have a quality holster that maintains your firearm securely in the holster. Now, it doesn’t mean it has to have a thumb snap or some other type of device that retains it. There are designs to many holsters that do retain your firearm. There are leather holsters that hold it fantastically without having to have a, you know, thumb snap or any of that. Just make sure that the holster you use securely retains your firearm, particularly if you’re carrying in New Jersey. Make sure that your holster complies with the requirements. The holster must completely cover the body of the fireman, the trigger guard and secure it to your person. Evan Nappen 46:18 This is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens. Speaker 2 46:31 Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state. Page – 13 – of 13 Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S3 E238_Transcript About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets. Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News. As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists. He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America. Email Evan Your Comments and Questions  [email protected] Join Evan’s InnerCircleHere’s your chance to join an elite group of the Savviest gun and knife owners in America.  Membership is totally FREE and Strictly CONFIDENTIAL.  Just enter your email to start receiving insider news, tips, and other valuable membership benefits.   Email (required) *First Name *Select list(s) to subscribe toInnerCircle Membership Yes, I would like to receive emails from Gun Lawyer Podcast. (You can unsubscribe anytime)Constant Contact Use. Please leave this field blank.var ajaxurl = "https://gun.lawyer/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php";

Episode 237- Gun Violence Propaganda Memorial Removed Also Available OnSearchable Podcast TranscriptGun Lawyer– Episode 237 SUMMARY KEYWORDS Gun rights, gun violence, gun safety, ATF, Biden administration, Trump administration, propaganda, criminal violence, firing squad, execution, New Jersey gun law, gun control, dental health, reciprocity, carry permit. SPEAKERS Speaker 2, Teddy Nappen, Evan Nappen Evan Nappen 00:15 I’m Evan Nappen. Teddy Nappen 00:17 And I’m Teddy Nappen. Evan Nappen 00:19 And welcome to Gun Lawyer. So, the gun rights suppressionists, those that want to suppress our rights. You know, they have created propaganda terms that they put out there that the media readily utilizes. Not just the media, but also even the weaponized government agencies that were particularly weaponized under Joe Biden. One of their favorites, they have two favorite terms they love to use. One is “gun violence”. The other is “gun safety”. And they’ve hijacked gun safety to have nothing to do with safety. Evan Nappen 01:04 So, when the anti-rights folks are out there talking about “gun violence”, what they really should be saying is criminal violence, or gun criminal violence, meaning criminal wrongdoing with guns. Violence that’s performed by criminals, but they don’t. They simply call it “gun violence” and then pass laws that infringe and suppress our gun rights, saying we have to do something about gun violence. And their solution, somehow, always includes disarming and taking away rights and then has no effect on actual criminals. So, what we see here is that there was a so-called gun violence memorial at the ATF headquarters. And, you know, under President Trump, ATF is being heavily defunded. They are taking away almost half a billion in their funding. Under Biden, of course, it was weaponized to be an even greater agency to suppress gun rights. Evan Nappen 01:04 When they talk about “gun violence”, they try to categorize whatever laws they’re trying to pass as either trying to address gun violence or it’s a gun safety law. And of course, it’s just gun laws that suppress our gun rights that they put under these banners. So, when they talk about “gun violence”, it’s not gun violence that is a problem. I’m actually, in many cases, very much pro-gun violence. Particularly when you want to use violence from a gun to save your life. Okay? So, if I’m justified in using deadly Page – 1 – of 10 force and I use my gun violently, that’s important. I’m using it for a lawful purpose. Gun violence is actually neutral, arguably. It can be good, or it can be bad. Evan Nappen 03:23 And apparently, what ATF had was a Gun Violence Memorial. And what the Gun Violence Memorial that the Trump administration has officially removed this propaganda Memorial, and what it consisted of was 120 portraits that were hung during the Biden administration, of course. The most anti-gun rights president we’ve ever had, and the portraits were there to “honor” the memory of all victims of violent crime while at the same time preserving the rights of law-abiding Americans. (https://bearingarms.com/tomknighton/2025/05/05/gun-violence-memorial-at-atf-headquarters- removed-n1228510) But it was not. It was a propaganda display by ATF. Steven Dettelbach, the former director of ATF, who was appointed by Joe Biden, a dedicated anti-gun rights individual, created this memorial at the agency’s Northeast Washington headquarters last April to remind employees of the human toll of gun violence. The display included photos of police officers killed by gunfire and children slain in mass shootings, so-called mass shootings, in Newtown and in Parkland and other victims. Evan Nappen 04:58 Of course, it really is not about the human toll of gun violence. It’s a human toll by criminals, criminals. But that’s not the purpose of this memorial. It’s to say guns are bad. Guns kill, and we have to ban guns, guns, guns, and that takes away our rights, instead of focusing on the wrongdoers. And this is now gone. It’s been taken down, and that is great, because we’re seeing all these propaganda efforts and other actions that were maximized to suppress our rights under Biden being dismantled by President Trump. It is great to see this. And really, the ATF, if it continues to exist at all, needs to focus its efforts on criminals. Teddy Nappen 06:07 If I recall, didn’t the UN do a similar statue where it was. Evan Nappen 06:12 Oh, well, the UN, is completely full of gun rights oppressors. Teddy Nappen 06:21 Like guns they had seized, and they melted them down. It looked like a revolver. Evan Nappen 06:25 Right. With a twisted barrel and all. And that’s so they can keep the populations around the world disarmed, so that vicious dictators and others, communists and what have you, that control the UN can maintain their power over people. Because the last thing they want is an armed populace that could oppose these evil leaders and their governments. So, of course, focus on disarmament in the world. Here you have the Biden administration not just doing so-called Gun Violence Memorial but focusing on law- abiding folks that they turn into criminals. Revoking licensed dealers for making one, one, simple paperwork error. You know, revoking their license. That’s been stopped by the Trump administration. Page – 2 – of 10 Evan Nappen 07:30 And the other efforts to redefine all kinds of accessories and what have you into NFA categories. Just their entire war on our gun rights has stopped and is being dismantled. And here, if anything, this memorial is symbolic with its takedown of a new day, a new dawn, and how elections have consequences, and in this case, good ones for our rights. So, that’s what we’re seeing. And, you know, ATF should not be propagandizing and adopting the language of the gun rights oppressors in setting up memorials and other displays to promote suppression of a right. So, there you go. It’s a good thing to see, and they’re continuing in the re-establishment of what ATF should really be about, and not this weaponized agency against our rights. Evan Nappen 08:46 Another interesting thing I want to point out is what occurred in South Carolina. In South Carolina, there’s a firing squad that botched the execution of a cop killer, Mikal Mahdi. (https://nypost.com/2025/05/08/us-news/south-carolina-firing-squad-missed-cop-killers-heart-report/) And this is interesting, because they had a firing squad of three people. The idea behind the firing squad is to shoot the person in the heart, and all three missed the heart. Apparently, only two rounds hit the person, and part of the rationale for the execution by firing squad is that it is something that should kill the person within 10 to 15 seconds. Evan Nappen 09:47 In this case, the folks on this firing squad apparently don’t know how to hit the heart with their firearm. And what happened was only two of the three bullets, according to the NPR article, and this was also in the New York Post, as well. Only two, instead of three, hit the person. The bullets struck his liver and other internal organs, allowing his heart to keep beating, and he remained alive for roughly a minute. And during that time, he let out a number of moans and was in pain. Now, of course, you don’t have a lot of sympathy for a person who is convicted murderer, but still. The idea that a firing squad can’t shoot definitely says something about the state of our agencies and their ability to fire effectively their firearms. So, this is really ridiculous. Now this bad guy, who they killed, let me just mention this. He had killed a 56-year old, off-duty police officer, James Myers, who was shot at least eight times before his body was burned. So, like I said, not a whole lot of sympathy. But, of course, those that oppose the death penalty are using this to demonstrate and claim that it prolonged suffering of this individual. Teddy Nappen 11:41 It kind of reminds me of, do you remember in the Sharpe series? It was the guy that was like Sharpe’s adversary. Evan Nappen 11:49 Oh, yeah, what was his name? Sergeant hakesfield? Hicksville? Teddy Nappen 11:59 Obadiah. Evan Nappen 11:59 Obadiah, Obadiah, Obadiah Hakeswill. I can’t die. Page – 3 – of 10 Teddy Nappen 12:04 I can’t die. And he’s after he’s shy. Now let me tell you, Sharpe, I can’t die. Evan Nappen 12:12 Then they do a firing squad, and he actually doesn’t die till Sharpe pops him in the head, finally. Teddy Nappen 12:19 Yeah, which, by the way. Why wouldn’t they just do that? Why would they line them up? Why not just have three of them just pointed directly at him? Evan Nappen 12:27 Well and that was a more than three guys, even. And of course, they’re shooting at a guy who’s standing, and he shouldn’t be moving. So, you would think that would have done it. But, of course, the Sharpe series was great. That’s Bernard Cornwell’s series of novels. If you haven’t read them, they’re fantastic. And you know, Richard Sharpe is just a great character. It traces through the Napoleonic Wars, historical fiction, and that was his antagonist throughout the series that finally gets what’s coming to him. Teddy Nappen 13:15 And if you can’t read, you can always watch the TV show with Sean Bean. Evan Nappen 13:21 Sean Bean. It’s one of the few Sean Beans where he doesn’t die. Teddy Nappen 13:27 I know. Evan Nappen 13:28 He knows. Where he’s dying and is in whatever he does, he always ends up dying. Well, he didn’t die in the Sharpe series, and he did a great job of portraying Sharpe. So, I’d highly recommend watching the Sharpe series or reading or even the audio books are excellent of Bernard Cornwell. Bernard Cornwell has done tremendous historical fiction, not just the Sharpe series, but other aspects of development of Britain. The Last Kingdom also was written by him. With Uhtred. Our hero, Uhtred, right? Who was half Viking, half Anglo-Saxon. So, he’s pretty cool, you know? And the development of England. How England became finally, and yeah. Great, great stuff from Bernard Cornwell. Evan Nappen 14:24 Hey, so let me tell you about WeShoot. So, WeShoot has Sig Sauer P320-Fie SXG, which is a performance-tuned 9mm built for accuracy, speed, and unmatched control. They also have a Smith & Wesson Bodyguard 2.0 in Rose Gold. So, it’s a stunning blend of style and self-defense, perfect for discrete carry with serious class. And by the way, Juliana is back and ready for action with the HK SP5 “Other”, a civilian legal take on the legendary MP5. She’s making it look easy and deadly cool. You can check out their website for that. They also have the Walther PDP Compact Pro E, which is built for duty Page – 4 – of 10 or everyday carry. This compact beast comes optics ready. So, it’s MOS and tuned for shooters who take their craft seriously. They’re offering 10% off on all firearms in their web store. Evan Nappen 15:43 So, you want to check out WeShoot. It’s a great range, and they have a great pro shop and everything you need for shooting. That’s where Teddy and I both shoot, and where we got our training. We love WeShoot. They can tell you and show you all about these great guns. And that’s what we love, great guns. So, check out WeShoot at weshootusa.com. That’s their website. You can sign up for great training and get your CCARE certification, so you can get your carry. WeShoot is a full service, and they just treat you so well there. You’ll love it. Evan Nappen 16:30 Also, I want to mention our friends at the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. They are the premier gun rights group in New Jersey. They are currently battling for our rights, fighting the gun rights oppressors, those that have passed laws infringing upon our Constitutional rights and trying to keep us victims instead of defenders. They’re in the federal courts, as we speak, challenging the so-called assault firearm law, large capacity magazine law and the Carry Killer bill, with all the ridiculous matrix of sensitive places and more. So, this is ongoing as we speak. Plus, they have a full-time paid lobbyist in Trenton, and as a member, you’ll get great emails, so you know what’s going on. Stay on top of the action as we fight for our rights in the state of New Jersey. The state of New Jersey is just out there trying to suppress us at every chance, and the Association is there defending our rights. You need to be a part of the Association. So, go to anjrpc.org, and you can join today. Be part of the solution. Evan Nappen 18:04 And at this moment, I want to shamelessly plug my book, New Jersey Gun Law, which is the Bible of New Jersey gun law. It’s over 500 pages with 120 topics, all in a question answer format. I know many of our beloved listeners have the book. I get reports all the time of how it saves them from becoming GOFUs, how much they use it every day, and how it is the key tool, key reference, key resource, so you can stay legal in New Jersey. If you want to get a copy of my book, New Jersey Gun Law, just go to my website, EvanNappen.com. At EvanNappen.com you’ll see the big orange book. Just click it, and you can order it. You’ll have it a matter of days. When you get it, scan the front cover, the QR there, and subscribe to my free and private subscriber base. You will immediately be able to download the 2025 Comprehensive Update, so your book is totally current with that update. And one of the things I did in that update was I have a standalone chapter on sensitive places so you know where you can and cannot carry. Go to EvanNappen.com and get a copy of your book today. Hey, Teddy, what do you have for us in Press Checks? Teddy Nappen 19:28 Well, as we all know, Press Checks are always free. We were kind of talking about what the left always pushes their whole gun violence they try to establish. And it’s gotten to the point where they’re kind of just throwing random things at the wall, trying to get people to come to the side of gun control, because it’s a losing argument on them for years. I was flipping through The Trace, you know. Always good to keep an eye on your enemies. Page – 5 – of 10 Evan Nappen 20:02 The Trace is the Bloomberg organization where they put out gun rights oppression propaganda, but they often will have stories that are important for us to stay on top of, as you do, Teddy. So that we know what the other side is trying to push. So, what did you see in The Trace? Teddy Nappen 20:28 I found one thing that was quite strange. The Trace decided to argue that just, I can’t even say it with a straight face at this point, “Gun Violence Linked to Surprising Side-Effect: Poor Dental Health”. (https://www.thetrace.org/2025/04/gun-violence-dental-health-care-study/) Evan Nappen 20:48 So, we’re back to gun violence, and now, well, of course, dental or dental health in one specific reason, and that is if you get shot in the teeth. If you’re shot in the mouth, then it’s not good for your dental health. Teddy Nappen 21:02 This is what you do. After you go shooting, you know, you have to D lead your hands. You gotta take some of that stuff, put it on your toothbrush. Evan Nappen 21:09 Right! You’ve done that. You and I both. Teddy Nappen 21:12 Yeah. So, in the article, The Trace is talking about the first paper to really look at the connection between dental health and violence exposure. What were Evan Nappen 21:24 Didn’t they say, be true to your teeth and they’ll never be false to you or something. Yeah, yeah. So yeah. How do they okay? So there, this is just more BS from them. First of all, whatever their statistics say, they’re not distinguishing between what is correlation and causation, two different things. So, let’s hear it. How did they statistically go at this? I can’t wait. Go ahead. I’m sure it’s just the correlation has nothing to do with causation. You can’t link the causational effect. I’m sure it’s Oh, explain. Teddy Nappen 22:02 Oh, it’s brilliant. So, first of all, the author, the lead study author, who just so happens to be the New Jersey Gun Violence Research Center. Evan Nappen 22:11 Oh, how convenient. Teddy Nappen 22:12 How convenient. A little bias there. So, it was out of the study where they took from 100 largest cities in America from 2014 to 2022, 20,000 neighborhood census tracks, and what they determined is they found that one point of increased shootings led to 0.06% increase in edentulism or dental loss, Page – 6 – of 10 Evan Nappen 22:43 Yeah. How is their causation there? There isn’t. It’s just statistical nonsense. Teddy Nappen 22:49 Yeah. And they also try to argue that gun violence, where it creates high stress, communities of higher rates of causes, communities’ higher rates of diabetes and food Evan Nappen 23:00 Do you know what causes high stress? Gun rights oppression. I think gun rights oppression probably leads to bad dental care and dental issues, because there is super high stress there for anyone who lives in Jersey and wants to be remain a law-abiding gun owner. Teddy Nappen 23:15 They towed out all the other ones where it’s gun violence exposure, effect residents overall wellbeing, increases the risk for suicide, depression and use of mental health services. And if you actually go into the paper, first of all, 100 large cities. Okay, let’s see. What are the main problems and issues of high stress going on in major inner cities? And then tell me what it what would cause that. Secondly, they even is, this is, this is a part right here. They said fatal and non-fatal shootings, they counted for, for American violence. So, what’s a non-fatal shooting? Just some random target practice target shooting? They didn’t really specify. And then here is house and they didn’t, yeah, of course. And here’s the real thing, several indicators for communities of disadvantage, theoretically related to the community health of gun violence, were included, using annual estimates from the ACS, percentages in families of poverty, percentages of family households, a single family head, percentage of people with labor force or unemployed, number of households receiving services due to these call COVID, between several of these items with a Wade community disadvantaged score was created by the creating a factor of poverty, single head families and unemployment. Basically, they cooked the books. Evan Nappen 24:52 They cooked the books. But why are they doing this? Why? I’ll tell you why. Because from the get go, they’ve wanted to get medical and firearms connected, and you see the progress they’ve made. Early on, they got pediatricians on board and the AMA on board. And that’s why, when you go to the doctor and they ask do you have a firearm, and then they try to make it a health issue when it’s not. Then they can try to go at funding for health issues and use gun rights oppression to go at healthcare that you get. And if they can get dentists now on board, if they can get the dental industry on board, then your dentist will next be asking whether you have a gun. How do you have it stored? It becomes a record that you’re a gun owner, and this is what they try to accomplish by using medical to attack and suppress our gun rights. This is the ploy. This is their tactic. Now they want to bring the dentist, as they have pediatricians and doctors through the AMA. Now they want to stretch it into this. Ultimately, I’m confident that’s what they want to do. So, don’t be surprised, at some point, when you go into your dentist and your dentist is suddenly going to talk to you about guns, because somehow that relates, which it doesn’t, of course, to dental health. Page – 7 – of 10 Teddy Nappen 26:31 And just to be clear, there’s a study by the Delta Dental, 30% of Americans fail to brush their teeth at least two times a day, with 2% admitting they don’t brush at all, but and which accounts for that 1% differential for the community. So, it’s all BS. That entire study was nothing but hogwash. Evan Nappen 26:56 Well, I don’t know if any ammo company is going to come out with fluoride bullets. Maybe that’s one of the things. Make sure you have the fluoride in the gunpowder or something. Teddy Nappen 27:06 It’s a Heidi gun. That’s also a toothbrush. Evan Nappen 27:10 There you go, right? So, it’s just. Teddy Nappen 27:14 Well, you got pen guns. Now you have brush guns. Evan Nappen 27:17 Toothbrush guns. Well, you know, one of the ways they make weapons out of toothbrushes is if you hold the toothbrush over a flame, a lighter or a flame, and you pull each end, it’ll become a point. Then break off in the center, and you literally can make the toothbrush into a pointy shiv by cooking it over a fire and stretching it till it pulls apart. And that is actually a prison technique to turn a toothbrush into a stabby. Stabby. So, there you go. Yeah, crazy stuff. Evan Nappen 27:58 Well, I have got some ask Evans. Thank you, Teddy for that. Another exposure of gun rights suppression propaganda, which is if it wasn’t because of the sneaky plans that really are behind it, it would be laughable. But it’s not laughable, because it’s part of their ongoing efforts to suppress our rights. So, this is from Jerry. Jerry says, Hi, Evan, I’m looking to build a NJ “other” firearm myself. I visited a local gun shop and was going to order the receiver that I wanted. Once I mentioned I was going to build an other, they stopped and said that was illegal. I’m not allowed to build an other myself. Can I build a rifle but not an other? And that I have to have it stamped and registered with the state police as well. And they added that they can build it for me, but to do it, I don’t have it stamped. Is it legal? Is this true? Evan Nappen 29:02 So, what New Jersey number one requires all firearms to have serial numbers. And if you’re going to build a gun, you’re going to have to build it on a receiver that has a serial number. The problem with others is that others that are permitted go back to a state police document where they said that the Troy A4 and the Dark Storm 15, they named those guns by name, are Jersey legal. Then we went through a period where we had the pistol brace that was integral to them being legal suddenly made illegal. But you know, federally, where Biden changed their definition after almost a decade to somehow turning these guns into SBRs. New Jersey frowns upon gun building. If you build a gun, they can try to claim Page – 8 – of 10 you’re a manufacturer, even if you build one gun. If you do a build, it has to be on a receiver that you acquired lawfully from a dealer. If you can figure it as an other, you’re not necessarily making one of the named guns, because it won’t have that name. Evan Nappen 30:16 And what happens is we get into situations where we have to educate the prosecutors, and it’s been some tough fights explaining that the gun as configured is a lawful other. They don’t understand others, and they just see it and believe it’s an assault firearm, or believe it’s just an unlawful gun, or calling it a ghost gun, even with a registered receiver. It’s just a mess. Frankly, my advice is, do not build your own gun in Jersey. You’ll avoid a lot of trouble and problems. I understand the fun for sure, building your own gun, and the pride of having a gun that you made. But you’re potentially exposing yourself to having to become a test case. So, I can’t recommend it. And it gets more complicated with others than standard rifle building, even with the properly registered and acquired parts. Under no circumstances, should you 3D print something with no serial numbers in New Jersey. Or do an 80 percenter with no serial numbers. Those are just flat out prohibited. Even just having the metal or the parts or the programs to do it is a crime in and of itself in Jersey. They’re trying to make the ghost gun ban so expansive over so many different things that it can turn unsuspecting law-abiding citizens into criminals. So, beware. Evan Nappen 31:54 I have another letter here from Alan who says regarding shooting a BB gun inside my home, legally. Hello, Evan. I’m a fan of the show. I’m also a New Jersey resident. I have a question for you. I have one of those cheap Daisy BB rifles. I can’t resist the joke. Don’t shoot your eye out. Okay, I said it. It’s like, dun, dun, dun. You gotta finish it off, right? That shoots approximately 350 feet per second. Would it be considered legal to set up a target inside my own home and shoot a BB gun if none of the projectiles make it outside the home and there’s a safe backdrop. Thanks for any information you could provide. Evan Nappen 32:39 So, here’s the deal. There is no state New Jersey law that prohibits the firearm discharge. What you have to be careful of is firearm discharge laws that are local. And by checking, make sure there’s no local ordinance against firearm discharge, then there’s no state law that would prohibit you from safely firing an air gun, BB gun in your home. For that matter, even a regular firearm. Because it has to do with discharge laws. And discharge laws are currently the domain, so to speak, of the locality where you live that has to do with outdoor shooting or indoor shooting. In New Jersey, air guns are considered firearms. So, be careful. Evan Nappen 33:38 Additionally, we have this week’s GOFU, which is the Gun Owner Fuck Up. And the reason we talk about GOFUs is because these are mistakes people make that are very costly, that you get to learn for free and not make the mistake. And this week’s GOFU concerns reciprocity. Please, please, please. If you’re coming into New Jersey, know that New Jersey recognizes no other state’s license. New Jersey has zero recognition reciprocity of any other state’s license. Period. They don’t recognize any other state’s license. So, if you’re coming into New Jersey and you want to carry your gun, you need to have a New Jersey carry permit. If you don’t have that, then you can’t carry in New Jersey. Now, if you’re Page – 9 – of 10 going to take your New Jersey licensed gun out of state. Well, that’s a different story. You’ve got to make sure they recognize your New Jersey carry or you have some other license that allows you to carry outside that jurisdiction. Don’t be a GOFU and carry, particularly in New Jersey, without a New Jersey carry permit. Evan Nappen 34:59 This is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens. Speaker 2 35:12 Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state. Page – 10 – of 10 Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S3 E237_Transcript About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets. Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News. As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists. He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America. Email Evan Your Comments and Questions  [email protected] Join Evan’s InnerCircleHere’s your chance to join an elite group of the Savviest gun and knife owners in America.  Membership is totally FREE and Strictly CONFIDENTIAL.  Just enter your email to start receiving insider news, tips, and other valuable membership benefits.   Email (required) *First Name *Select list(s) to subscribe toInnerCircle Membership Yes, I would like to receive emails from Gun Lawyer Podcast. (You can unsubscribe anytime)Constant Contact Use. Please leave this field blank.var ajaxurl = "https://gun.lawyer/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php";

Episode 236-Desperate Democrats go for Assault Weapons Ban Also Available OnSearchable Podcast TranscriptGun Lawyer– Episode 236 SUMMARY KEYWORDS Gun control, Second Amendment, assault weapons ban, semi-automatic rifles, semi-automatic pistols, detachable magazines, pistol grip, forward grip, grenade launcher, barrel shroud, threaded barrel, large capacity magazines, ghost gun ban, private transfers, gun safety legislation. SPEAKERS Evan Nappen, Speaker 2, Teddy Nappen EvanNappen 00:15 I’m Evan Nappen. EvanNappen 00:17 And welcome to Gun Lawyer. So, the desperate Democrats, who can’t seem to find an issue to rally around, and they constantly are taking the 80/20. They always take the 20 when they’re going after their political stands, and they’re in major disarray. So, the last desperate move that you always see politically is to go for gun control. That’s what they’ll call it. Gun control. But they don’t call it that. That’s actually an old term. Now they like to call it “gun safety legislation”, or some other garbage. Teddy Nappen 00:17 And I’m Teddy Nappen. Teddy Nappen 01:07 “Gun violence prevention.” EvanNappen 01:09 Gun violence prevention. Right. Perfect. So, their new assault weapon ban, that’s what they’re calling it. The “Assault Weapons Ban of 2025” has been filed. (No bill number has been assigned.) (https://www.schiff.senate.gov/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/OLL25450.pdf) And this is their new rallying call. Now, of course, the odds of this passing are very, very slim. However, it doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be vigilant. We must be vigilant. You must be aware of what they’re planning to do. It shows you how much they want to oppress our Second Amendment rights. This bill is an atrocity, and hopefully, it will never, ever become law. But obviously this is their political move. And of course, they’re having issues over there at the DNC. The appointment of David Hogg, which we’ve talked about before. You know, whose entire claim to fame. Teddy Nappen 02:17 James Carville and him just had a sparring. It was pretty funny. EvanNappen 02:20 Page – 1 – of 12 Exactly. And so they want to get rid of Hogg over his politics of trying to primary in the Democrat Party, picking and choosing those he wants to primary. So, they want to kick him out. Of course, they want cover that they’re not abandoning their Second Amendment oppression. They’re not abandoning that. They just don’t like David Hogg, but then again, who does? But this is all part of the plan. But when you see this bill, which I want to tell you about its elements, it lays out just how far they’re willing to go federally, and this will affect New Jersey gun owners. Because although you may say, hey, New Jersey has an assault firearm ban, guns that are legal in New Jersey will become banned under this federal bill. I’m going to explain to you why, and some of the other little fun things that are in this piece of garbage. EvanNappen 03:30 Let’s jump right into it. So, the bill that has the names of Senator (Adam) Schiff, Mr. Murphy, not Governor Murphy, but Senator (Chris) Murphy, Senator (Richard) Blumenthal and Senator (Alex) Padilla. They’re the four oppressionists that have filed this bill. And what it says is this. It is going after, of course, semi-automatic shotguns, semi-automatic rifles, semi-automatic pistols and more. So, when it comes to a semi-automatic rifle, first, they’re setting out a general criteria ban, where it’s going to go by feature. But they also have a list we’re going to talk about. So, they’re combining all kinds of bans to make it very difficult to understand. But we’ll try here to do our best. EvanNappen 04:33 Now, the semi-automatic rifles that are banned, if it has a capacity to accept a detachable ammunition feeding device. Basically, a magazine. Has any one of the following features, not two. Remember, even New Jersey allows you to have one, but you can’t have more than one. The federal bill eliminates even having one of the following, ready? A pistol grip, a forward grip, a folding, telescoping or detachable stock,. Detachable stock, they’re now adding. Do you believe that? I mean, I can detach just about any stock if you have a screwdriver. What? Are you kidding me? Or a stock that is otherwise foldable or adjustable in a manner that operates to reduce the length, size, or any other dimension. So, if you have a gun that you adjust for smaller folks or larger folks, and it’s adjustable, or a target gun that adjusts, oh, well, too bad. That’s banned, too. Or otherwise enhances concealability. So, anything that makes the stock smaller. Teddy Nappen 05:49 I was just going to say, what if you wanted to add a pad to the stock? Wouldn’t that be shortening or lengthening? EvanNappen 05:55 Or removing or cutting. Yeah, who knows? A grenade launcher. Okay? I mean, I know a lot of you go out grenade launching on the weekend, so that may be a problem. A barrel shroud, the classic barrel shroud, that they don’t even know what it is. You know, that’s the classic a “shoulder thingy” that goes up, right? Yeah. Or a threaded barrel. So, if your detachable magazine rifle has any one of those features, it becomes banned under this federal bill. Also, any semi-automatic rifle that has a fixed magazine capacity of over 10 rounds. But they exempt tube fed .22s because they learned their lesson in New Jersey with banning tube fed .22s, which was such an embarrassment that even these oppressionists aren’t willing to risk that. Any part, combination of parts, component, device, attachment, Page – 2 – of 12 or accessory that is designed or functions to accelerate the rate of fire . . . Anything. That could be a bump stock, a crank, you name it. If it accelerates, a binary trigger, you name it. That now becomes a problem, and it is itself falling under a definition of being a banned item. EvanNappen 07:26 A semi-automatic pistol that has an ammunition feeding device that is not a fixed mag. So, any handgun that uses a detachable mag. And has any one of the following features: a threaded barrel. So, if you have any semi-automatic handgun with a threaded barrel, that makes it unlawful under federal law. A second pistol grip, a barrel shroud, the capacity to accept an ammunition feeding device, meaning a magazine, at some other location outside the pistol grip. And it doesn’t mean that it has to function. But if it accepts the extra mag in the stock or on a forward grip, or anywhere anywhere else, then that one feature prohibits it. A semi-automatic version of an automatic firearm. Any semi-auto handgun that uses a detachable mag that has a weight of 50 ounces or more. And any semi-auto handgun with a buffer tube. So, that’s all the AR pistols. A stabilizing brace. So, there’s a brace ban built into this bill. EvanNappen 08:59 Then they go on to say, anything that’s designed or redesigned to allow or facilitate a firearm to be fired from the shoulder. So, anything that in any way makes that particular handgun have the ability to fire from the shoulder. A semi-automatic pistol that has a fixed magazine over 10 rounds. I think CalTech makes a model like that. Any semi-automatic shotgun that has the ability to accept a detachable mag or a fixed ammunition mag. Either one now. Detachable or fixed. That has the capacity to accept more than five rounds. And, of course, there are many semi-auto shotguns that use the smaller shot shells. The small mini-shot shells that will increase the capacity of those shotguns that are using just standard two and three quarter inch shells. Well, the 1.75 inch mini shells will now increase that capacity and make all those semi-auto shotguns prohibited or. Teddy Nappen 10:24 Just, yeah, just to kind of go back, thinking along, like anything designed to facilitate the fire for the bit where it said about it can take an extra mag. Isn’t there a thing that you can clip another mag to the mag on the side? So kind of, I forget what the term is, where you can rotate the mag. Would that be considered it? EvanNappen 10:47 Well, there are some. The classic is to take two mags and just tape them together. Teddy Nappen 10:52 Y eah. EvanNappen 10:52 And with those taped together. Well, this says the device, the mag, has to have the capacity. So, maybe two separate ones, but we’d have to argue that it has two. You have two. It doesn’t fire continuously and directly. I don’t know. This is going to be a legal question. But it doesn’t end there. Any semi-automatic shotgun that has any one of the following features as well is prohibited. And that’s Page – 3 – of 12 a folding, telescoping or detachable stock. A pistol grip or a bird’s head grip. Good grief. So, if you have any shotgun with a pistol grip or a bird’s head grip or a forward grip, and they don’t define really well what that means. Or a grenade launcher. I don’t know how many shotguns have grenade launchers. That’s kind of interesting. But, there you go. EvanNappen 11:48 Then any shotgun with a revolving cylinder. So, now that may open up the the Taurus Rossi. Those revolving cylinder .410s, particularly the smooth bore .410 shotguns. Those have revolving cylinders and would now become assault firearms as well. Then they have a list. Okay, now, as if all that broad prohibition isn’t enough, then they have this laundry list of the following rifles, copies, duplicates, variants or altered facsimiles with the with capability of any such weapons thereof. So, anything like any of the following, and they don’t even have to have the criteria of what I just said. But if it is a copy or a duplicate, or a variant or an altered facsimile of any of the following named guns. Here we go. Teddy Nappen 12:59 One might say it’s almost exact, would you say? EvanNappen 13:02 Yeah, right. It’s almost exact. You’re almost exactly, right. All AK types, and the list is all the AKs they could come up with. Including the MAK 90, which is Jersey legal. Izhmash Saiga AK. MAADI AK. Norinco 56S and 84s and Poly Tech AKs. SKS with a detachable mag ability. All AR types. All ARs. Period. All ARs, including the following. AR-10. AR-15. Alexander Arms. Armalite AR 15 22 long rifle carbines. Armalite M15. Barrett REC7. Berreta AR-70. Black Rain. Bushmasters. Chiappas. Colt Match Targets. The Colt Match Target, which is technically one of the guns that New Jersey had created some legality for. CORE Rifle. Daniel Defense M4A1. Devil Dog Arms. Diamondback DB15s. DoubleStar. DPMS Tactical rifles. DSA ZM-4 Carbine. H & K MR556. High Standard HSA-15s. Jesse James Nomad AR-15. Knight’s Armament SR15. Lancer L15. MGI Hydra Series.Mossberg MMR Tactical rifles. Noreen Firearms BN 36. Olympic Arms. POF USA P415. Precision Firearm. Remington R-15. Rhino Arms. Rock River Arms LAR-15. Sig Sauer SIG516 rifles and MCS rifles. Smith & Wesson M&P15. Stag Arms. Sturm Ruger SR556 and AR-556. Uselton Arms Air-Lite M-4 rifles. Windham Weaponry AR rifles. WMD Guns Big Beast. Yankee Hill YMH-15s, they call them. Barrett M107A1. Barrett M82A1s., Beretta CX four storms, Coleco, Liberty series set, may sporters day, woos, fabric nationals. Fals, LA, ours, fncs, l1, A, one, sporters. PS, 90s, scars and Fn, Fs, 2000s feather industries, 18 nines, Galil, ARS, high point carbine, flat out, any high point carbine. HK, 9193 94 PSG, one. HK, USC, iwi tavors, Galil, Ace rifles, Caltech, sub 2000s su 16 and rfbs just banned by name SIG, AMT SIG, P, 57 six, hour, 550s, 550, ones. MC, xs, Springfield armies, Sr, 48 Steyer, Augs, Sturm, Ruger, mini 14, tactical rifle. M dash, 14, slash, 20, CF, all Thompson rifles, including the following, where they then list the M, 1s B, the M, 1100 D, the the, I mean, that’s a T, 1100 D, a t1, 50 D, T, 1b etc, all The Thompson rifles, however, however, it says including the following, but there are also Thompson Center rifles, which you could call a Thompson rifle, that are black powder rifles. So what is a Thompson rifle? It includes the ones you might normally think of as Tommy Gun copies, are thereof, but that is so broad, just flat out saying Thompson rifles, including the following, then humor X, Uzi rifle, Uzi mini carbon. Uzi model A’s, Uzi model B’s, Val met. M, 60 2s, M, 70 1m, 78 vectors, Uzis, Weaver Page – 4 – of 12 arms, Nighthawk and Wilkinson arms, Linda carbine. (https://www.schiff.senate.gov/wp- content/uploads/2025/04/OLL25450.pdf) (Pages 5 thru 10) EvanNappen 18:09 So, there’s their laundry list. All those guns by name, plus the feature ban, plus the prohibition on those other devices, parts, function. You name it. Then they have all these pistols on a laundry list. Copies, duplicates, variants, and altered facsimiles. Teddy Nappen 18:32 Before you read the pistol list. Just kind of look, kind of digesting that for a moment. The Sub 2000 Caltech. I could have sworn that was one of the ones that was good for Jersey. EvanNappen 18:43 Yes, it was good for New Jersey. Many guns here that are good for Jersey will be prohibited under the federal law. Now you need to know that they are grandfathering. Teddy Nappen 18:56 Oh, that’s nice of them. EvanNappen 18:57 All these guns. However, they’ve added a little caveat. Any transfer of these guns has to go through a dealer. Period. Throughout the entire United States. So, they want to end private transfers. This is their foot in the door to end all private transfers. Any firearm that falls into this category, sure, it’s grandfathered, but if you want to transfer it to another party, every one of them has to go through a dealer. EvanNappen 19:31 All these pistols. AK pistols and CZ, scorpions and Draco AKs and HR, CA case and iOS and hell pups and Crink offs and mini Dracos and paps and Yugo Krebs and all AR types, including American spirit and Bush master carbon 15 and Chapel M fours and core rifles and Daniel Defense and double star cooperation, etc, DPMS. James Nomad Olympic arms, they are 15 pistols, Ospreys, MK, eighteens, POF USA, air pistols, rock arm, right? I mean Rock River arms, l, a, r, 15. Pistol, usefulton arms, air light, m4, pistol, Colico pistols, D, S, A, SA, 58 PK, PS and FAL pistols, N, com, MP, five and MP, 45 Heckler and coke model. SP, 89 pistols, all the intra tech, the AB 10s, the tech 22 the tech nines, the DC nines, iwi Galil pistols, Uzi pro pistols, KelTec, PLR pistol, all Mac types, all Mac types, including the Mac 10, the Mac 11 and the 12. Masterpiece arms, the MPAs and the, you know, the minis, the tacticals, etc, then military arming corporate Ingram M Eleven’s, velocity arms V, Max, six, hour, 556, pistol sites, Specter, pistol, all Thompson types, including the Following, Thompson ta 510, D and Thompson ta five. But all Thompson types, well, what about the Thompson Center single shot pistols that allow from single shot, multi caliber use? They’re all falling under this. Apparently, all Uzi types, including the micro Uzi, then on shotguns again, all the following shotguns, including copies, duplicates, variants and altered facsimiles. Duria, ACON MC, 1980s Dirk elite, fall shotgun, Frankie law 12 and spas, 12 ish, all Ishmael, Sega, twelves, all of them. There are some of those that are okay in Jersey. They’re banned. All of the segas Street Sweepers and striker twelves. All belt fed semi-automatic Page – 5 – of 12 firearms, including Tnw, MT, 2h, B’s and F n, m, 2495. (https://www.schiff.senate.gov/wp- content/uploads/2025/04/OLL25450.pdf) (Pages 10 thru 13) EvanNappen 22:27 Then any combination of parts from which a firearm described can be assembled and simply a frame or receiver of a rifle or shotgun described above. Just the frame and receiver now falls under it. And, of course, there’s a ban on large capacity magazines over 10 rounds. So, they have just put their entire Christmas list together of gun rights oppression, and this will be their rallying cry. Teddy Nappen 23:03 For the benefit of the audience. Could you repeat that list again? EvanNappen 23:06 If anyone wants to repeat it, replay this episode over and over. Okay? No. Teddy Nappen 23:15 You can just, it’s a good thing to fall asleep to where you just play it and then the background. EvanNappen 23:18 Except think of how many, literally, millions of firearms this piece of garbage affects. It’s amazing that they would have even the nerve to put it forward, but they have no shame. They have no respect for the Second Amendment. They want to oppress our rights, and this is a great example of how far they’re willing to go. They also make it unlawful for a person to, of course, buy, sell, manufacture any mags after the date. However, mags end up getting grandfathered. So, of course, what this bill tells you is to stock up. Because I think in the next four years, it’s unlikely that we’ll see it, but who knows? And after that, if these oppressionists ever gain power again, you know what they want to do. This is really just an atrocity, and it shows their hatred of us and wanting to turn law-abiding citizens into criminals. EvanNappen 24:30 Additionally, there’s a section requiring “safe storage”. You have to lock up your guns that fall under this list, even your grandfathered guns. Guns that are grandfathered. You have to keep them locked up unless you’re actually using them, and you can’t let anybody else access them. Then they’re putting in, also, a ban essentially a ghost gun federal ban. They’re sneaking it in. Requiring serial numbers and markings for anything that gets made. So, that if they can show anything made that was done afterwards, it doesn’t have the markings, then they can charge you with that. They’re also going to require that magazines be marked. It is just an atrocity of a bill. This is what the Democrats are trying to do now to divert from their utter failure. Teddy Nappen 25:37 So, just to go back. EvanNappen 25:39 The public eye. Go ahead, Teddy. Page – 6 – of 12 Teddy Nappen 25:41 There was a word in the bill that you kept repeating. It was “altered facsimile”. So, looking at that phrase. Would that be? So, just the example of like they, you know, is that kind of with Jersey’s original like, they’re, what is it, uh, almost exact. Is that what they’re trying to like? EvanNappen 25:58 You know, it’s hard to say, but it might also be some influence from the U.K. One of the things that seems to take place more there than here,is taking facsimiles that are model guns or fake guns and somehow making them live. Or if you take a model and use it as a basis to create a firearm. I’m thinking that’s where they’re going with it, but it’s new language that I haven’t seen them use before. So, if you know and have followed what happens with these bans, weirdly, it does become a gun owner enrichment law in a weird way. If you have these guns and then they get banned but they get grandfathered and can still be sold, well, they skyrocket in value. If you lived through the last assault firearm ban, that was a total failure and didn’t do anything about actual crime. God forbid. But what it did do was it made the firearms skyrocket in price, and magazines skyrocket in price. Also, by having a national 10-round ban on mags for semi-auto firearms, it made the smaller, more concealable and more deadly handguns emerge. Because if you’re limited to 10 rounds, well, it may as well be more powerful cartridges. So, it actually had an opposite effect anyway, which is kind of another one of those unintended consequences, or maybe they intended. Who even knows? But. Teddy Nappen 27:59 I always look back to your quote in Blue Book, where you wrote, if those anti-gunners are going to try to take away our rights, I say, let’s make money off of that. EvanNappen 28:09 That’s correct. I wrote an article that was, you know, almost tongue in cheek, explaining and showing how the anti-Second Amendment oppression laws actually did enrich gun owners and how it became something that one could, in theory, invest on. Now I’m not saying to do that here, but if these are guns that you want to have, you better get them before this law ever takes place, that’s for sure. EvanNappen 28:43 So, hey, let’s talk about our good friends at WeShoot. WeShoot is offering some really cool guns that, at the moment, you’re able to buy. This includes the New OA Defense 2311 Pro Elite, which is a next level 2011-style platform delivering competition-grade precision, speed and reliability for serious shooters. Then they have a new rental gun. If you want, you can rent a Glock 34 Nintendo Zapper Edition. Inspired by the iconic classic. This one brings serious Duck Hunt vibes with real-world performance. They have a Kimber Rapide Dawn, a stunning 1911 built for speed and beauty, featuring stepped serrations, an aggressive trigger, and a show-stopping finish. And don’t miss Sharol. Sharol is one of the great WeShoot girls who’s head-over-heels for her IWI Z-15 rifle – precision, power, and pure excitement. I hope they’re talking about the rifle. But anyway, every time she hits the range. EvanNappen 30:07 So, this is some announcements at WeShoot. And you want to check out WeShoot. It’s a great range. They have a lot of fun down there. It is where Teddy and I both shoot, and you should shoot there, too. Page – 7 – of 12 They offer great courses and your certifications for getting your carry license. And it’s a great family- friendly place where you can enjoy a day of shooting right in Lakewood, New Jersey. Conveniently off the Parkway. Check out WeShoot at weshootusa.com. EvanNappen 30:48 Let me also mention about the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. They are the premier gun rights group for New Jersey. They’re an umbrella organization of all the gun clubs, but they want individual members as well. It’s important that you belong. We have power in numbers. The gun rights oppressionists are not giving up. And New Jersey is particularly bad, like I have to tell you. So, the fight is on. Become a part of the state Association, ANJRPC. Go to anjrpc.org. Be part of the solution. They will send you out great emails of alerts. They’ll have easy ability to send messages to the legislators, to the Congress critters and such, letting them know that we’re opposing their gun rights oppression. They have litigation ongoing in federal courts challenging New Jersey’s assault firearm ban, mag ban, and, of course, the Carry Killer law. And what’s very interesting is, while this is all going on, the Supreme Court is still pondering whether to grant certiorari on the assault firearm magazine ban cases. I’m really hoping they take those cases. Because if they take them, I’m confident we will be victorious, and it can finally end this nonsense once and for all in both the states and our country. So, make sure you join the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. EvanNappen 32:30 Let me just take a moment to shamelessly plug my book, which is New Jersey Gun Law, the Bible of New Jersey gun law. It is your guidebook to not becoming a GOFU and being able to know and understand New Jersey laws. It’s 120 topics, all in a question and answer format. I made it super user friendly. You can get it at my website, EvanNappen.com. You’ll see the big orange book there. Click it and get your copy today. When you get your book, scan the front cover the QR right there, and sign up for my private subscriber database right. You’ll get email alerts of any law changes, and you’ll be able to immediately download the 2025 Comprehensive Update, which, amongst many other important things, is a standalone chapter on “sensitive places”. So, you’ll know where you’re legal to carry. Now, Teddy, you have your Press Checks, and I believe you’re going to follow up with the topic that we’ve been discussing. What do you have for us, Teddy? Teddy Nappen 33:37 Correct. So, as we know Press Checks are always free, and this one comes from The Hill where Adam Schiff joined Senator Chris Murphy and other Democrats to reintroduce the assault weapon ban. (https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/5274890-democrats-reintroduce-assault-weapons-ban/) EvanNappen 33:51 Shifty Schiff did it too, huh? Teddy Nappen 33:52 Yeah, but what I find very hilarious in the article, “The bill has virtually no chance of becoming law . . .” Like they even admit it, like in the article. Page – 8 – of 12 EvanNappen 34:05 Right they admit it now. But why are they doing it, if they know that? Because that’s not its purpose. Its purpose is to soften up people on the ban, to give Democrats something that they can shout from the hilltops about and to give them cover for their soon to be removed David Hogg. Teddy Nappen 34:25 Yeah, currently, I think their numbers are at like 20 or 25. They’re completely underwater, and they’re just doubling down and choosing all, of course, the worst issue. But whatever. It got me thinking, though, and I know you’ve always talked about this. What was the origins of the assault weapon ban movement? The whole idea of an assault weapon ban? Because you see it in video games and you see it in movies, they always say assault weapon or assault firearm. They always use that term, and it always comes back, like you mentioned, to this individual. EvanNappen 35:00 Let me say one thing about that term. So, that term is a term that they stole from the Nazis, and they changed what it actually meant. It was the Nazis that developed what was called the Sturmgewehr. The Sturmgewehr, the original assault weapon, was medium caliber, and it was fully automatic and semi- auto. It was machine gun technology in that package. And they purposely took the German Nazi language, because this is how they run, of course. You know, they adopt these things. I mean, the ’68 Gun Control Act, parts of it were taken verbatim from the Nazi gun control. Teddy Nappen 35:51 Oh, we just saw, who was it? Yeah, the guy who wrote the book, “Gun Control in the Third Reich”. Stephen Halbrook. EvanNappen 35:58 Yeah, we met him at the NRA convention this weekend. He was there. He has two books on the study of the Nazi gun laws, and you can see even their application here. So, (Josh) Sugarman takes this term and even says in his book, you know what he said? What do you say about this issue? What did he even admit from the beginning? Remember his manifesto, assault weapons and their accessories? That was a manifesto on this issue that established, wait, that established it even before Patrick Purdy shot up that schoolyard, and that’s what gave the ability for them to push this issue. What did he say about it, Teddy? Teddy Nappen 36:45 Well, his exact quote, which is from the NSSF article where they show his quote, the public’s confusion over fully automatic machine guns versus semi-automatic assault weapons. Anything that looks like a machine gun is presumed to be a machine gun can only increase the chance of public support for restriction on these weapons. EvanNappen 37:07 So, Sugarman knew he wanted to confuse the public, fool the public. That’s a premise he began with. Let’s con the people. Isn’t that great? Page – 9 – of 12 Teddy Nappen 37:16 Yeah, and what I was leading to with Josh Sugarman, who is, and I love this term, he’s the thought leader of the anti-gun movement. He’s the executive director of Violence Policy Center for more work of Amnesty International. But the kicker. This is what sparked. EvanNappen 37:42 Law Center, too, I believe. Teddy Nappen 37:46 What I found from this, but his number one book, this is the one kicker to it all was assault weapons and their accessories. This was written in 1988, and this book is what sparked and created that term. I love the introduction of this. The assault weapons threat is exacerbated by the fact that weapons are difficult to define in legal terms. Legislators and members of the press have proposed placing increased restrictions on all semi automatic firearms, which include some hunting rifles, whether these proposals are merely the result of ignorance of wide variety of firearms that semi automatic or misguided efforts in the face of definitional problems, they only lend credence to the gun lobby argument that restrictions on assault weapons are merely the first step towards banning all semi automatic guns. And that’s the introduction to the book. EvanNappen 38:40 You know, look how this bill is structured. This bill is structured to sneak in whatever they can and make it as broad as they can. Trying not to walk into the sporting arms, okay? The whole sporting arms. Like the Second Amendment is about duck hunting or something. No. Teddy Nappen 39:03 Just to give you perspectives, this guy has not mellowed out in the course of the years. I mean, his last book was made in 2001. It’s called “Every Handgun Aimed at You”. The case to ban handguns. So, very much he’s. EvanNappen 39:19 He also launched the book NRA firepower and fear, and his publicity campaign there was to shut down the ability for people to get their rights restored. And since 1992, good, decent people that should get their rights back haven’t been able to do it. And President Trump is reversing that. We’ve talked about that on the show, and that you can relate to Sugarman. Look, I met Sugarman when he showed up at a pro-gun convention. He was IDd, and he actually spoke to the convention, giving his anti-gun views. So, I give him credit for that. And it was actually very interesting, because he laid out what his plans were and why. He didn’t pull any punches. I’ll credit him there. But this guy is a person who I think fits the definition of closet hoplophobe, right? A hoplosexual, as we call, yes, right? A closet hoplosexual can’t come to grips with his love of guns. So, he has to take it out on everybody else who can freely admit their love of firearms. EvanNappen 40:30 Those are books by Desert Publications. It used to be Paladin Press. Page – 10 – of 12 Teddy Nappen 40:30 I will say, and this is very funny. In the book, he has a section called accessories, and he starts listing off various books, like how to build silencers an illustrated manual. And he even lists the price of $5.95. I know. Improvised weapon of the American underground, full auto, 12 bucks, anarchist. Teddy Nappen 41:03 The mini 14 exotic weapon systems, improvised explosives, how to kill volume one through six. Just like I just kept laughing. I’m like, man, dad. So, this is where you got your collection? Teddy Nappen 41:17 But here is one thing that catches my eye. First thing, fully automatic fire for your AR 15 drop in auto Sears. Now cut to 40 years later, and what are we talking about? What are they trying to ban and what they’re trying to go after? The drivers trigger, Ultimate Trigger activator, EvanNappen 41:17 What do you think that book’s about? Yeah, I know. I don’t know. Actually, it’s a six volume set. John Minnery. Minnery wrote that, and he was, I think, one of the guys that used to work for some alphabet agency. He puts out every technique of dispatching a person, and there’s a lot of crazy stuff in those books. Including one of my favorites, the electric urinal, where yeah from right and the same. Because urine is a conductor, and if you pee on that hot plate, you get zapped. Yeah, there you go. EvanNappen 42:19 Right. Yeah, cranks, activators, even binaries. All that gets covered under this bill. Bump stocks, too. Anything that “increases rate of fire”. This is all another one of their boogeyman tactics to oppress our rights, and that’s what we see. Teddy Nappen 42:41 Some things never change. EvanNappen 42:42 No, they don’t. Well, let me tell you this week’s GOFU, which is the Gun Owner Fuck Up. These are important, because you get to learn an expensive lesson for free. Now this story I’m going to tell you, and these are actual cases when I tell you, GOFUs. It’s real stuff that’s happened to real people. Now this person just had this happen to them. I’m not going to mention names, but this person was traveling from a state in New England to a Western State. Traveling inside the United States. This person properly declared and checked in their handguns at the airport. It was unloaded in a separate locked TSA-approved container. Declared them. They did everything right, 100%. Traveled appropriately, just like I’ve done many times, Teddy, and you’ve done many times. We travel on airlines lawfully with firearms by following the procedures. That’s exactly what this person did. EvanNappen 43:58 However, United Airlines sent their bags, by accident, to Canada. To Canada, yeah. And when they got there, customs at Canada, found the bag. They took the guns and destroyed her guns. Then sent the luggage back on its way to where it should have went with empty gun boxes. The guns were taken and Page – 11 – of 12 apparently destroyed. Now confirmation has not been made in writing that they’ve been destroyed, but this is what can happen when you travel with guns. When the bag gets put, accidentally, on an international flight outside the country. Even though you followed the law to a t. So, this is a GOFU on the airlines, but keep that in mind, folks. So, if you’re flying with your guns, I’d be very cautious about flying with any of your high end special firearms. I mean, when we travel, we travel with specific guns that we travel with. We don’t travel with any of the guns that we might be extremely upset about losing. I’m going to be upset about losing any gun. But, yeah, as I’m sure you know, there’s some guns that you would rather not lose versus others, right? Teddy Nappen 45:49 But, uh, this is actually. You know what this is gonna spark now? The sons of Maxwell need to do a new song. United lost my firearms. EvanNappen 46:01 Don’t quit your day job, Teddy for singing. Teddy Nappen 46:04 Yeah, I know. EvanNappen 46:05 Well, that’s our GOFU. So, beware when you travel in the air. This is Evan and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest gun citizens. Speaker 2 46:22 Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state. Page – 12 – of 12 Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S3 E236_Transcript About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets. Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News. As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists. He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America. Email Evan Your Comments and Questions  [email protected] Join Evan’s InnerCircleHere’s your chance to join an elite group of the Savviest gun and knife owners in America.  Membership is totally FREE and Strictly CONFIDENTIAL.  Just enter your email to start receiving insider news, tips, and other valuable membership benefits.   Email (required) *First Name *Select list(s) to subscribe toInnerCircle Membership Yes, I would like to receive emails from Gun Lawyer Podcast. (You can unsubscribe anytime)Constant Contact Use. Please leave this field blank.var ajaxurl = "https://gun.lawyer/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php";

Episode 235-The Gun Owner’s Digital Second Amendment Also Available OnSearchable Podcast TranscriptGun Lawyer– Episode 235 SPEAKERS Evan Nappen, Teddy Nappen Evan Nappen 00:14 I’m Evan Nappen. Teddy Nappen 00:16 and I’m Teddy Nappen. Evan Nappen 00:17 and welcome to Gun Lawyer. So, I’d like to tell all of you about what is known as the digital Second Amendment. Now, this is a new law that I think is going to become a very popular law that other states are going to pass. This was just passed by the state of Montana that, of course, enormously respects the Second Amendment and our civil rights under the Second Amendment. And it’s not just a Second Amendment, but it’s actually a First Amendment case that directly impacts the Second Amendment and is the opposite of what we are experiencing in the gun rights oppression state of New Jersey. Evan Nappen 01:07 So, I learned of this from AmmoLand. (https://www.ammoland.com/2025/04/montana-just-gave-gun- owners-a-digital-second-amendment/) AmmoLand is a great news feed, news aggregate, a great site. If you don’t get AmmoLand, you should. It’s great. The editor in chief, who’s friend of mine, Freddie, is really great guy. He put this article out about Montana, and I think it is really something that we’re going to see more of and hopefully will see more of in the future. Now, I’m not saying that New Jersey could get this passed, but many other states will, and maybe even a federal law. These laws start out in the States, and then we can get a federal law that can maybe do it. Evan Nappen 01:46 What Montana has passed, it’s very cool, is known as the Montana Right to Compute Act (MRTCA). The right to compute. So, what they’re doing is making access to computer tools, in effect, part of our Constitutional liberty. And this is really great. It is a complete flip of the script for what the gun rights oppressionists have done in terms of limiting our ability to access digital information regarding firearms. Murphy and company, the Democrats, and the other gun rights suppressors, have passed laws in New Jersey restricting your right to compute. We’ve seen the restriction on the right to compute, going at code, going at things in the cloud, 3D printers, et cetera, and they’re trying to destroy and stop and choke out tools and files and knowledge. That’s right. It’s all about knowledge. It’s about knowledge. Evan Nappen 03:03 For example, as the editor points out in the article, DA Alvin Bragg pressured to have 3D printer companies install firmware to block printing gun parts and censor cloud-based CAD files. The ATF and DOJ have held closed-door meetings urging tech developers to implement software blocks, cloud file Page – 1 – of 14scans, and AI-based detection of “gun shaped” files. A federal judge in New Jersey ruled CAD files are “functional”, not expressive. Meaning, in New Jersey, the judge found that they don’t qualify as free speech. Outrageous. Of course, that’s what gun rights suppression is all about. And DHS admits to monitoring 3D printer purchases by Americans with the help of Amazon, eBay and PayPal. All this is in the article. Evan Nappen 04:04 So, what did Montana do? What Montana did is pass this Act that is something that other free states, other states, and all states, frankly, should consider. Under this Act, it’s really interesting. What it does is it forces any restriction on a citizen’s ability to use or share digital tools, it must pass strict scrutiny, the highest level of a test of a law. That’s the same rigorous tests that’s used to defend our core Constitutional rights like freedom of speech, freedom of religion and, of course, supposedly, the right to keep and bear arms as well. But this law will mandate it, and here’s what it does. Evan Nappen 04:56 It means that if any Government entity, state or city, in Montana tries to ban CAD files, restrict 3D printing of firearm components, force firmware changes on printers, or censor gun-related codes or forms, the Government will have the burden to prove that it’s absolutely necessary, narrowly tailored in pursuit of a compelling state interest. In short, that is an incredibly tall burden for the state to meet, and by doing that, it will greatly restrict the gun rights oppressors from repressing our First Amendment rights, our right to information, our right to compute. So, I want to give kudos to Montana for breaking ground here and being the first state to pass such a law, going the opposite direction of the gun rights oppressors in protecting our digital Second Amendment rights, and they’ve done it without naming guns. They’ve just laid the foundation for protecting hobbyists who use 3D printers to legally build guns, shielding code-sharing platforms from activist prosecutors and preventing tech companies from being deputized as gun control agents. And as the editor points out, we now have a blueprint to push back against such digital disarmament. Evan Nappen 06:55 As the author points out, from John Lott to Defense Distributed, one truth keeps coming up. 3D printers mean the end to any gun control. Let that sink in. 3D printers mean the end to any gun control. Because once you can make it yourself and use it and do it, you don’t need a permission slip, and government doesn’t control it, even though they’re trying to oppress our rights in every way, by utilizing and stopping technology of liberty. Montana had this excellent idea. Teddy Nappen 07:38 I’m kind of curious, though. Just as example, would this go into since, like, one example being like PDFs where it actually has, you know, like a poor man’s James Bond, or any of the instruction manuals on how to make guns from scratch. Would they go as far as to, you know, breakdown if you want to make them in your home. Or, like, instruction manuals that you can get online. Evan Nappen 08:05 New Jersey is so broad that who knows where the boundaries are under New Jersey’s restriction on First Amendment when it comes to Second Amendment. But a law like this will obviously protect those Page – 2 – of 14rights, and it’s something that hopefully we’ll see a trend of many other states following suit. This is an exciting development in a pro-Second Amendment civil rights law, and I’m glad to see it. Finally, a counter blow to the gun rights oppressionists, and it’s a good one. So, we’re going to keep our eye on this. We’ll look for other states that follow suit. Good job, Montana. We love seeing states take great action defending our Constitutional rights. Evan Nappen 09:02 Now I have an interesting letter here from Mark regarding CCARE. Mark says, I listen to your excellent podcast every week, and I try to digest and remember all of the information that you and Teddy present. I do remember one of your podcasts pertaining to whom a PTC holder might divulge if they are carrying a firearm or not. Which is true, that’s our duty to disclose that New Jersey has where you’re required to tell the officer immediately upon being stopped or detained, that you’re carrying a firearm, and you must present your carry permit. Failure to do those things are criminal offenses. So, you want to make sure you do that. But he continues. My question is, my niece, a lawyer. Those damn lawyers. Asked me on Easter Sunday if I was carrying my firearm, and I told her that she should not ask that question as she is not law enforcement. I guess he meant to say officer. And I do not have the duty to inform her as to what my carry condition is, even at her parent’s house. I was not carrying of course, but was I correct? Evan Nappen 10:11 Well, there are two things here. One is, remember, there is a sensitive place issue over private property not open to the public. So, if this was private property not open to the public, then you would need permission to carry your firearm, your handgun, on that property. Now, in this case, he wasn’t carrying. The only way he could legally be carrying under current state law, if this was in New Jersey, because of New Jersey’s sensitive place, is if he had permission. So, when it comes to private property, private property open to the public, that portion of the sensitive place law has been enjoined and is not in effect right now. But if it is private property that’s not open to the public, you need permission, either by way of a sign or actual permission given, even verbally, that you can carry there. But that, apparently, is not the issue, really, because he wasn’t carrying, so he wasn’t in a sensitive place. The actual question, because he wasn’t carrying. He was not carrying there. So, don’t worry whether it’s a sensitive place or not. He’s not carrying. Evan Nappen 11:22 However, it’s a little deeper than that, because the question by his lawyer niece is one of, are you carrying now? Wanting to actually know that. And his response was somewhat, I guess, legalistic, and saying, well, you’re not a cop, so I don’t have to tell you jack. I totally understand that sentiment, but there might be a somewhat better way to express it. And what I would recommend, if you are ever asked that question, is just respond with “that’s a personal question, and I don’t answer personal questions.” That’s all you have to say. It’s a personal question, and I don’t answer personal questions. Set your boundaries. You should set your boundaries whenever anyone’s talking to you about anything. I mean to ask whether you’re carrying is a personal question. Page – 3 – of 14Evan Nappen 12:21 It’s right up there asking, hey, are you on birth control? Do you believe in God? By the way, how much money do you make? Those are personal choices, folks. The classic is none of your business. But again, that’s harsh. We don’t have to be harsh. We don’t have to be confrontational, especially to family and relatives. Simply say, look, it’s a personal question, and I don’t answer personal questions. You’ve set your boundaries and now move on. So, I think that’s a good way to handle that and a smart way to handle it. Because, frankly, you have no obligation to reveal if you are carrying, except in the law enforcement situation, which that wasn’t. Other than that, there’s no reason to, unless you want to for some reason. But basically, no need to know if you are lawfully carrying, whether you are or not, and your ability to defend yourself, and you have that for when you choose, you’re justified in revealing it. And that’s how we do things, especially when it comes to setting our boundaries about anything that’s personal to us. Evan Nappen 13:32 Nobody has carte blanche into our personal choices in our life. Nobody does. If you learn to set your boundaries, you’ll be better off just in your own life, personally. Not just on this gun question, but on any question, set your boundaries. Don’t fall into the traps of being put into a situation where it can escalate and become an aggravation to all parties. I know that we’re going a little bit further, Teddy, here than just giving gun advice, but you know what? It’s life advice, and I’m all for that, because we’ve got to live our lives. Teddy Nappen 14:11 It kind of reminds me of what Benjamin Franklin recommended to be on our money. “Mind your business.” Evan Nappen 14:20 That’s right, that’s a good one. And we love that on the Fugio cent. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fugio_cent) That’s always good. And of course, you all, I’m sure, know the difference between in-laws and outlaws, and that’s outlaws are wanted. Anyway, bad joke. But I do want to mention our good friends at WeShoot. WeShoot has some exciting news. First of all, they’re offering a carry renewal class. So, if you need to get your CCARE, you want to also complete this great review renewal class. It’s Saturday, April 12, from 8:30 to 3:30pm. It’s a five-hour training course designed to get you fully prepared to carry and to do it right. You’ll learn how to safely and efficiently draw from a holster, understand critical carry concepts and walk away with the skills and confidence you need to protect yourself and your loved ones. The course meets the training requirements for New Jersey and is also recognized by many other states, including Florida. You’ll complete the CCARE protocol. There’ll be a 50-round, live fire test from three to 15 yards, using a two hand grip in a standing position. It’s straightforward, easily achievable, and built for every day carry training booked now. This class is very reasonable. It’s only $299.99 for five hours of top notch classroom and shooting qualification training only at WeShoot. So, go to weshootusa.com. It’s their fantastic website. You can check them out. Page – 4 – of 14Evan Nappen 16:00 Let me give you another announcement from WeShoot that you might be interested in. For one night, there will be a lawyer talking about everything you need to know about New Jersey gun laws and that lawyer is none other than yours truly, Evan Nappen. Teddy Nappen will also be there. So, if you want to meet us and criticize the podcast, go right ahead. Come and see us. We’ll be happy to sign autographs, even, if you’re desirous of such things. But actually, we’re going to do that on Tuesday, May 13, at 6pm at the Kava Coffee House in Howell Township. And guess how much it costs? It’s free, free. Come there, and I’ll be talking and answering all kinds of questions. We’ll have a good time. It is a seminar focused specifically on New Jersey firearm laws. You’ll be able to see me, and you’ll learn about transportation and self-defense and carry permits and sensitive places and all the good stuff that we love to talk about. And we’ll have a good time while we’re at it. So, keep that date in mind, Tuesday, May 13. It’s sponsored by WeShoot. We appreciate that. And U.S. Law Shield, and we’ll be there. Go to weshootusa.com for more information about that. Evan Nappen 17:26 Let me also mention our good friends at the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. They are the premier gun rights organization in New Jersey. They are the ones that are litigating, as we speak, in federal court. Any day now, we should finally get some more results. We are waiting and waiting. Boy, the court sure take their time when it comes to gun rights, don’t they? But that’s how it is. It moves slowly, but we’re making progress. They’re fighting the assault firearm ban, the mag ban, the Carry Killer ban, helping folks every day. They are also dealing with the legislative threats that the gun rights oppressors in Trenton are bringing upon us. This is a critical organization for you to belong to. Make sure you join. You’ll get the email updates, and you’ll know what’s going on. You’ll know that you are part of the solution, and you want to be part of the solution. We’ve got to stick together, folks. This fight is about our precious rights. Join the fight, be part of it. (anjrpc.org) Evan Nappen 18:37 Also, let me take this opportunity to shamelessly promote my book New Jersey Gun Law, the Bible of New Jersey gun law. Boy, I hear stories every day. People call me how much it helped them. No joke. How they showed it to the law enforcement officer, how they brought it to the range, how they won the bet with their friend, how they use it, and they love it. It’s 120 topics all in a question and answer format. One of the things that they all mention is it makes a great bathroom book. That’s right. Because you can just read a chapter when you need it. It’s great. I would hope you wouldn’t use it for any other reason in the bathroom, but nonetheless, it’s your book. Do with it as you wish. But it is a great book. The one thing I would highly recommend is that you never lend it to anybody, because, as everyone tells me, you’ll never get it back. Evan Nappen 19:25 If you would like to get your copy of the guidebook, your indispensable guide to getting through the matrix, the insane matrix known as New Jersey Gun Law, go to EvanNappen.com and order your book today. It’s the 25th Anniversary Edition. And when you get the book, scan that QR code right on the front, and you can join for free, my private subscriber base. You’ll get notices of any of the law changes. You’ll get updates, and you can immediately download the 2025 Comprehensive Update. Part of that Page – 5 – of 14update includes a stand-alone chapter on “sensitive places”, saying where you can and can’t carry explaining it all in question and answer format. So, that is a definite. Make sure you get the book. Evan Nappen 20:12 Now we have the ever popular Press Checks segment with Teddy. Tell us, Teddy, what is today’s topic? Teddy Nappen 20:21 Well, as we know, Press Checks are always free, and again, all the wins across the board in terms of Second Amendment. You know, it brings a bit of irony and a bit of happiness when the Government is seeking to disarm itself. From our friends at BearingArms, a representative, U.S. Rep Barry Moore, has introduced a bill to disarm the IRS. (https://bearingarms.com/tomknighton/2025/04/15/republican- lawmaker-takes-aim-at-irs-guns-n1228313) It is to prohibit the IRS from using appropriated funds to purchase, receive, or store any firearm or ammunition, requires the IRS to transfer to the GSA any firearm or ammunition owned or controlled by the IRS. Within 30 days of the transfer, the GSA must initiate a sale or auction of any firearm to a licensed dealer and the auction of any ammo to the general public. So, let’s be on the lookout for IRS guns. Evan Nappen 21:21 Yeah. Well, you know you’re in for a really tough audit when they’re there with semi-automatic firearms at the meeting, I guess. Right? So, you know, why does the IRS even have firearms? What reason? But you know, so many of these agencies are armed. And you scratch your head and say, why? Teddy, what are some of the other agencies you’ve discovered that are actually armed by government funds? Teddy Nappen 21:49 Well, from “openthebooks.com”, where they go into details. You know, the classics. FBI and CIA. (https://www.openthebooks.com/substack-the-militarization-of-the-irs–the-facts-on-the-purchase-of- guns-ammunition-and-military-style-equipment-since-2006/) However. Evan Nappen 21:58 Well, the FBI is a law enforcement agency. So, that’s at least understandable. They should. If anyone should be armed, they should. They’re law enforcement. You know, in that regard, they’re dealing with bad guys that are dangerous. You know, putting law enforcement officer’s lives at risk. I understand that. Teddy Nappen 22:13 Yeah, and that would make sense, except 76 of the pencil pushing agencies. I love that. That’s how they describe it in the article. The pencil pushing agencies like the EPA, Social Security Administration, IRS, Human Health Services, Department of Transportation, etc. Evan Nappen 22:33 Oh, well, I guess they were gonna really force COVID shots. They were planning to do so, huh? Page – 6 – of 14Teddy Nappen 22:39 Yeah. And from another article from allgov.com, there’s also what they’ve used is the term SWAT teams. (http://www.allgov.com/news/top-stories/federal-agencies-with-guns-weather-service-social- security-railroad-retirement-board-140610?news=853369) They have different agencies that have SWAT teams. Like the Office of Personal Management, the Department of Labor, the National Aeronautics and Space Administration. Evan Nappen 22:58 Well, if the jello monsters from outer space come, we want them to be ready. Teddy Nappen 23:01 Yeah, the Food and Drug Administration and the Consumer Product Safety Committee. Evan Nappen 23:08 Oh, good one. Teddy Nappen 23:10 And Fish and Wildlife Services. Of course. Evan Nappen 23:12 Well, they might have a legitimate call for being out in the woods and all. But, you know, that’s really funny. Some of these agencies are like, what? Why are they armed? Yet, historically, there have been many different agencies through our history that have armed themselves, not just police. And you know, Teddy, I showed you one of the old Colts. I have one of the old Colts from the 1920s for the water supply through the county where they were armed. I guess they had to protect the water supply. So, maybe that makes sense. But you found some interesting historic guns in your research, haven’t you, that were? What were some of the fun ones you’ve discovered. Teddy Nappen 24:01 So, I was kind of going down a little bit of a rabbit hole trying to see what guns were issued to agencies. Two things caught my eye that I thought was pretty hilarious. First, at College Hill Arsenal, they were auctioning off a Remington-Keene Frontier Rifle that was purchased by the U.S. Department of Interior for the Bureau of Indian Affairs Tribal Police. (https://collegehillarsenal.com/Extremely-Rare-Fine- Remington-Keene-US-Indian-Police-Frontier-Rifle) Evan Nappen 24:26 Well, there you go. I guess they may have had some ideas behind that one, huh? Well, I guess if you’re way out west, you might need it for game or protection from bears and wolves. But then again, there may be the other side of having to defend yourself. Teddy Nappen 24:39 Well, they were worried. Well, they were worried that some of the Native Americans may have been worried about, you know, if they were going to endeavor to persevere. Page – 7 – of 14Evan Nappen 24:49 Right! Yeah, this is one way to force the endeavor to persevere. As you’re quoting from the Clint Eastwood movie. Evan Nappen 24:59 Yeah. Right. Good one, yeah. We shall endeavor to persevere, and then we armed ourselves and went to war after considering that. Yeah, that was good. Teddy Nappen 25:16 The other one I thought was kind of interesting where I was going down. I went to the war relics. (https://www.warrelics.eu/forum/world-firearms/us-post-office-revolver-manual-5310/) It was a forum, and someone took photos of the manual. This is a U.S. Post Office revolver manual for training the postal workers about carrying revolvers on duty. Evan Nappen 25:37 Were they the original dog shooters or something? Is that what was going on there? Teddy Nappen 25:40 I guess so. But it was pretty funny, because it had like the 1950s, as the Postal Service is looking to protect themselves in order to handle their packages and delivery. It’s just like written like. Evan Nappen 25:55 Could you imagine all mailmen carrying guns? It actually might be, you know, a good idea if mailmen are armed. Maybe it would itself reduce crime, because we all know how unbelievably efficient the post office is. So, I could just imagine every postal worker being armed. Oh, that would be good. But then again, what about when they go postal? Oh, yeah, that could be an issue, right? I don’t know. Teddy Nappen 26:14 Yeah, Mr. Postman don’t shoot or something. Evan Nappen 26:23 Yeah, right. Well, you know, the history, though, goes way back, which is actually interesting when it comes to bona fide law enforcement agencies having their own specific issued sidearm. That really originated with police agencies with Theodore Roosevelt when he was Police Commissioner in New York. Prior to that, agencies, departments, police, fireman, if you had a gun, you just picked whatever gun you wanted to carry. And it was Roosevelt in New York that said, hey, we want a standardized handgun. As a matter of fact, it was even prohibited for police to carry their guns, but they all did. So, what Roosevelt did was make it so they would be armed, but armed with the same revolver, and then be trained on that revolver. They had to make certain qualification scores with that revolver. This way they’d have standardized ammunition. Evan Nappen 27:22 He also had qualifications for fitness, believe it or not, too. Fitness and gun shooting. The very first departmental handgun ever issued in America was the Colt New Police .32 revolver. The Colt New Page – 8 – of 14Police. And it was done working with Theodore Roosevelt as Police Commissioner. This was before he was Governor, before he was President, before he was Secretary of the Navy. As Police Commissioner, he changed firearms in law enforcement to this day by having this standard firearm issued to the New York Police Department. The first year production of approximately 4500 Colt revolvers were issued in the 1890s. I believe it was 1896 or ’97 when he was Police Commissioner. That first year production, all the guns were marked along the back strap “New York City Police”. The engraving was Colt engraving that engraved it to New York City police, and every one of those went to a New York City police officer. It revolutionized having police issue firearms that are standard for a department. Evan Nappen 28:55 Now I have one of those original Teddy Roosevelt Colts, and it’s really cool. Because what happened was the police Gazette, which was a popular kind of newspaper magazine in the day, wrote about this, and I have a copy of the original article where they talked about Commissioner Roosevelt’s innovation in doing this. That, of course, made departments across the United States order these same guns from Colt, and you can find other guns that were also issue guns where they’re marked. I actually own a number of other ones, including Manchester, New Hampshire, and others that were the Colt New Police. This revolutionized firearms in law enforcement. It really was a historical moment that today we take for granted. When someone says I’m with the police department, you say, oh, really, what’s your department carry gun? Like it’s a known thing, right? And yet it wasn’t back then, until Roosevelt changed the world, if you will, when it comes to that. So, that’s pretty cool. And go ahead, Teddy. Evan Nappen 30:07 Yeah, what is it today? What is the FBI standard gun? Teddy Nappen 30:07 There was another thing that I saw. It was interesting. So, for department standard issue firearms, the FBI, like, what is their standard gun? It was. Teddy Nappen 30:20 It said Glock 19 M. Evan Nappen 30:24 Ah, the 19 M. Teddy Nappen 30:26 Yeah. Which I was like. Evan Nappen 30:27 It literally says 19 M on the slide. It’s literally identified as the M model, right? Teddy Nappen 30:30 Yeah. And I was like, wait, M. What does M mean? And so, what’s it? Page – 9 – of 14Evan Nappen 30:36 What makes it different? Teddy Nappen 30:37 So, this is a Glock actually made for the FBI. Evan Nappen 30:42 But it’s based on the 19, right? The Glock 19, the mid-size, nine millimeter, 15 round mag. Teddy Nappen 30:47 There was a great article by SWAT mag. (https://www.swatmag.com/article/fbi-issues-new-pistol-glock- 19m/) Prior to all this, basically, the bad word was the word Glock. Where all the FBI were like, oh, why do you have a Glock? Oh, God, don’t. Because they were afraid of it for the, you know, accidental discharges. But they actually got Gaston Glock to come to the FBI, showed them about it, and he designed an FBI Glock. He designed it with specifications for them. Evan Nappen 30:48 What are the changes to the M model versus the normal standard, maybe even Gen 5 Glock? Teddy Nappen 31:24 One was no front strap finger grooves. You know, the finger grooves. They got rid of those on the Glock, also the. Evan Nappen 31:31 Because then you can fit more hands, you know, because the finger grooves. Like with my hand on a Glock, the finger grooves. I have a big hand, and they cut into one of my fingers. I mean, the finger grooves didn’t fit me well. Teddy Nappen 31:43 Yeah. And the other one was the conventionally rifled barrel crowned. Evan Nappen 31:47 Ah, now let’s talk about that real minute. What’s very interesting is Glocks primarily have hexagonal “rifling”, which is not lands and grooves. So, Glock barrels do not produce ballistics where you can identify which bullet came from what gun, because of the hexagonal rifling. It is ballistically not possible to say with specificity that this gun fired that bullet if it came out of a Glock. But if it has traditional lands and grooves rifling, then it would be ballistically identifiable. It’s interesting that they made that change, and some also believe it adds more accuracy. And there are drop-in barrels you can get that are land and groove for Glocks, of course. But this comes standard that way from Glock. That’s interesting, Teddy. Teddy Nappen 32:41 And the other one was stronger trigger safety pin, which I guess they’re trying to make it so it’s harder to pull. Page – 10 – of 14Evan Nappen 32:47 Yeah, probably litigation enforcement so they can, you know, lessen the lawsuits, right? Teddy Nappen 32:53 And enhance locking block rails, longer recoil spring assembly. Evan Nappen 32:59 Probably to handle more powerful loads. Teddy Nappen 33:01 Yeah, enhanced firing pin safety, ambidextrous slides. Evan Nappen 33:05 You know, I’d give my right arm to be ambidextrous, Teddy. Teddy Nappen 33:08 Oh, I believe you. Evan Nappen 33:10 Yeah, keep going. Teddy Nappen 33:11 Uh, and stronger. Nice. Evan Nappen 33:14 Let the people, let our listening audience get past what I just said. They’re trying to recover. Teddy Nappen 33:18 That’s alright. I’m used to it. You’re, all the dad jokes. Flare magazine well, cut out in the grip to facilitate easy removal. Stock mag, amber glow sites, Safra land als holster, four back straps, external, internal, coated with. Evan Nappen 33:18 So, the back straps can adjust to the different hand size, which is nice, and that’s also on many of the later gens, like the Gen 5s. And also, you can actually make it big and or small and make it fit well. That’s a good thing. Teddy Nappen 33:49 Yeah. I’ll just do one more where I thought was pretty interesting. So, for ICE, the Immigration Customs Enforcement, they actually carry SIG Sauer P229, dark or doc, chambered in 40. Page – 11 – of 14Evan Nappen 34:10 Oh, they’re still using 40 cals. The P229 is a good gun. I like that gun a lot. And then in 40, it also is fairly easy to change that into .357 Sig. I don’t think they’re doing that, but I always like to 229. It’s a nice piece. Teddy Nappen 34:26 Yeah. It’s kind of this interesting back and forth with the agencies. They kind of compete with going with a Glock 19 or the Sig Sauer. Because, like the U.S. Secret Service just did the Sig Sauer. But then they’re thinking of switching to Glock. CIA uses Glock 19 over the Sig Sauer. Evan Nappen 34:44 Well, I’ll tell you, Teddy, some of the police departments, probably about 150 now, are actually going to the Staccato. (https://staccato2011.com/) Oh, the staccato. What a beautiful gun. I have a Staccato. If any of you out there have Staccatos, you know damn well what I’m talking about. They are pretty pricey, but departments that really care about their men and want to give them the best, that is a gun that is definitely a cut above. Those Staccatos are amazing, but there’s a large price tag. And when you’re having to arm a lot of folks, and you have limited budgets, and you want something absolutely reliable that works and is more in budget. I can see why they might not opt for a Staccato. But if you get a chance or if you’ve shot Staccatos, you know what I’m talking about. Teddy Nappen 35:29 Well, if the budget is really tight, they could default to a liberator pistol. Evan Nappen 35:36 Yeah, right. The Liberator pistol, also known as the Woolworth’s gun. A stamp steel single shot .45 ACP that came with cartoon instructions that we made by the 1000s under the World War II cover of making “flare pistol” 45. But it actually was this. It was considered the least expensive handgun ever made. I think it cost the government $1.42 per gun, and it came in a kind of a wax wrap package with about 10 rounds of ammo, single shot, cartoon instructions. The idea was to give it to the insurgents and friendly forces so they would shoot the enemy soldiers in the back and take their good guns. So, those were. But they’re very collectible and very desirable, very historic. The so-called Liberator. It’s gotta be the ultimate Saturday Night Special ever made, and it was made and produced by the U.S. government. Very cool and interesting historic gun. Hey, let me. Thank you, Teddy, for a really interesting topic. Evan Nappen 36:41 And let me just bring some folk’s attention here to, before we do the GOFU, a letter that came from Frank. Frank said, regarding affirmative defense. Thank you very much for your informative podcast. My son-in-law got me listening. He was wondering, because he’s going on a trip to Virginia, and he researched their gun law. And it says State Police page says, my New Jersey PTC would be honored. And their law talks about carrying concealed weapons; exemption; penalty says, if you break it, basically it’s a class one misdemeanor. Then it says, it shall be an affirmative defense regarding a handgun that a person has been issued at a time of the offense, a valid concealed handgun permit. What does affirmative defense mean? Page – 12 – of 14Evan Nappen 37:23 That’s a good question. Let me tell you, if you go to Virginia’s website, and I’m not a Virginia Attorney, but anyone can go to their website, and that’s just what I did. (https://vsp.virginia.gov/services/firearms/reciprocity-and-recognition/) It specifically says that, pursuant to Virginia law, the holder of a valid concealed handgun or concealed weapon permit or license issued by another state may carry a concealed handgun in Virginia provided all the below conditions are met. Number one, the holder of such permit or license is at least 21. The permit or license holder carries a valid photo identification issued by a government agency, such as, you know, a driver’s license or passport, etc, or maybe even the carry permit itself. The holder displays the permit or license, and the government issued photo ID. So, I guess they do want both. Best to be safe and have both. Upon demand by a law enforcement officer. And the permit or license holder has not previously had a Virginia concealed handgun permit revoked. So that’s the criteria. Evan Nappen 38:20 Then if you have that qualifying carry, which your New Jersey carry would qualify, assuming you meet the rest of this criteria, then Frank wants to know what’s an affirmative defense. And that’s an important concept in law. An affirmative defense means it is a defense that you must affirmatively prove first. So, it means that the burden is shifted to you to prove that you have such a license and that you have qualified under the Virginia law with that license. If you can show that, the burden becomes yours to prove that, then you can be lawful in your carry. Evan Nappen 39:01 So, keep in mind, if you’re going to carry reciprocity out of Virginia with New Jersey, and you’ve met that criteria, if you’re ever have to use it or an officer questions it, the burden will be on you to prove that you are within that criteria. That’s an affirmative defense. New Jersey uses affirmative defenses throughout the gun law. It’s an affirmative defense in New Jersey to prove you’re licensed at all anyway. Even just generally carrying in New Jersey, you have to show and produce your license. We have affirmative defense is what self-defense is. Self-defense is an affirmative defense. So, if you use force, either deadly or non-deadly force, and you get charged with a crime, you have the burden of the affirmative defense of asserting that you were justified under the law to use the force or deadly force, that you used. It’s a concept that shifts the burden of proof to the defendant, and it does change the dynamic from what would normally be you’re guilty until proven innocent, to your innocent until proven. Strike that. I just reversed that. You will switch innocent, because I’m so used to New Jersey, folks. You’re innocent until proven guilty. It switches the burden to guilty until proven innocent, in a manner of speaking, because you now have the affirmative defense burden on you first. So, good question, Frank. Thanks for bringing that up. Evan Nappen 40:39 Let’s talk about the favorite segment of the show, at least it’s running neck and neck with Teddy and his Press Checks. And that is the GOFU. GOFUs are Gun Owner, Fuck Ups. And the reason we talk about GOFUs is these are expensive lessons learned by individuals that you get to learn for free. And this GOFU is actually from Breitbart, which is a very cool news site and one of my favorite writers, AWR Hawkins. He has an article regarding a mom suing the school that suspended her son over Dr. Pepper Page – 13 – of 14cans arranged in the shape of a rifle. (https://www.breitbart.com/2nd-amendment/2025/04/23/mom- suing-school-that-suspended-her-son-over-dr-pepper-cans-arranged-in-the-shape-of-a-rifle/) Oh, my God. That’s right, folks. Riley Grunden is suing Missouri’s Mountain View-Birch Tree School District over a suspension of her son for posting a photo. And you can see the picture in the article of Dr. Pepper cans arranged in the shape of a rifle. The son, apparently, allegedly in the article here, took a photo of the cans at home and had the nerve to post it on social media. It was accompanied by a trending audio file entitled AK47 which include a voiceover saying, this is the famous AK47, with over 50 million manufactured in 10 countries. The AK47 is the most popular assault rifle in the world. Evan Nappen 42:13 And it is a bunch of Dr. Pepper cans lined up. Obviously a joke. Obviously it’s not a bona fide even AK, but even so, what if it was. Yet, this caused all kinds of turmoil where he got suspended, and now there’s a lawsuit. So, what’s the GOFU? Folks, beware of social media posts by your children, by yourself, etc. Social media is an area where I frequently see criminal troubles stemming from things that people post. And look, I’m for the First Amendment. It’s a sad commentary that we’re not free to post Dr. Pepper cans that look like rifles. Who cares? But look at the trouble it can cause. Make sure you talk to your kids. Because in New Jersey, you can then see that after getting suspended, the police are going to bring a TERPO (Temporary Extreme Risk Protection Order) for the danger, the immediate danger, and seize guns in the household. We’re going to end up fighting this in court. And then if anything seized is in any way questionable under New Jersey’s insane matrix, you’re going to face those charges. It just escalates beyond belief. Be smart. Yes, be smart, folks Yeah, be smart. Watch out with your kids and even yourself post. Don’t be a GOFU on social media. Evan Nappen 43:38 This is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens. Evan Nappen 43:47 Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state. Page – 14 – of 14 Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S3 E235_Transcript About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets. Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News. As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists. He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America. Email Evan Your Comments and Questions  [email protected] Join Evan’s InnerCircleHere’s your chance to join an elite group of the Savviest gun and knife owners in America.  Membership is totally FREE and Strictly CONFIDENTIAL.  Just enter your email to start receiving insider news, tips, and other valuable membership benefits.   Email (required) *First Name *Select list(s) to subscribe toInnerCircle Membership Yes, I would like to receive emails from Gun Lawyer Podcast. (You can unsubscribe anytime)Constant Contact Use. Please leave this field blank.var ajaxurl = "https://gun.lawyer/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php";

Episode 234-Booby-Trapped Rifle Found By Police Also Available OnSearchable Podcast TranscriptGun Lawyer– Episode 234 SUMMARY KEYWORDS New Jersey Attorney General, weapons offenses, booby trapped rifle, assault firearms, large capacity magazines, unlawful possession, certain persons, New Jersey Transit Police, unattended luggage, binary trigger, Glock handgun, AR-style rifle, silencers, gun safety laws. SPEAKERS Evan Nappen, Speaker 2, Teddy Nappen Evan Nappen 00:16 I’m Evan Nappen. Teddy Nappen 00:18 And I’m Teddy Nappen. Evan Nappen 00:20 And welcome to Gun Lawyer. Well, the New Jersey Attorney General just published a news release that is entitled Florida man. Forida Man. “Florida Man Indicted on Weapons Offenses After Bringing Firearms, Including a Booby-Trapped Semi-Automatic Rifle, on Amtrak Train”. (https://www.njoag.gov/florida-man-indicted-on-weapons-offenses-after-bringing-firearms-including-a- booby-trapped-semi-automatic-rifle-on-amtrak-train/) Evan Nappen 00:50 So, let’s take a look at what happened here and find out what a booby-trapped, semi-automatic rifle is. Now, the news release says that this was, it came out April 16, 2025, that the Attorney General announced today that a Florida man has been indicted for aggravated assault, endangering others, and a multitude of weapons offenses, including possession of dreaded assault firearms. He didn’t say dreaded, but he did say assault firearms. Excuse me, he said assault weapons, which, by the way, is not what’s prohibited in New Jersey. It’s assault firearms. But why should the Attorney General know that? His news release called them assault weapons. Large capacity ammunition magazines. Handguns. Silencers. And a booby-trapped rifle that fired during his arrest at the Trenton Transit Center. Evan Nappen 01:55 The news release goes on to say that Jeffrey O. Kennerk, 34, of Fort Lauderdale, Florida, is charged by indictment with possession of a weapon for unlawful purpose. Four counts of unlawful possession of a weapon; three counts of unlawful possession of an assault firearm; one count of aggravated assault; one count of certain persons not to have weapons. All second degree crimes. So, just looking at those certain persons not to have weapons, that is persons who are somehow they claim prohibited from having guns. Could be a felon. Could be someone with a domestic violence restraining order or Page – 1 – of 14domestic violence misdemeanor. Could be somebody even with an involuntary mental health commitment. It could be any number of otherwise prohibited persons. It doesn’t explain what makes this person, allegedly, a certain person. Second degree crimes in New Jersey. They carry up to 10 years in State Prison. Most of these offenses are Graves Act offenses that carry a minimum mandatory three and a half years with no chance of parole, and the judge must impose that sentence as a minimum mandatory component of the sentence. Certain persons not to possess, if it is a firearm, as opposed to just weapons. That’s a five year minimum mandatory. Evan Nappen 03:27 Now this person, it says further, is also charged with two counts of unlawful possession of a large capacity magazine; one count each for unlawful possession of hollow nose ammunition; unlawful possession of a silencer; endangering another person; and causing or risking widespread injury or damage. All fourth degree crimes. Fourth degree crimes carry, by the way, up to a year and a half in State Prison. It goes on to say that the defendant allegedly hauled a small arsenal of deadly weapons and ammunition through busy transit stations and on a train filled with passengers. He allegedly left a suitcase containing assorted weapons and ammunition, including an assault rifle. Again, assault rifle is not a term found in New Jersey gun law. In the concourse of Newark Penn Station, where anyone could have been harmed by them. Anyone could have been harmed by them, if not for the outstanding police work done in this matter. We can only imagine where this defendant and these weapons would have ended up. They probably would have ended up at his destination, which appears to have been Florida, but they don’t mention that. Evan Nappen 04:46 “This case highlights the critical importance of effective law enforcement collaboration,” said the DCJ Director Theresa Hilton. “I’m very proud of the NJ Transit Police officers involved in this case,” said NJ Transit Police Chief Christopher Trucillo. “The officers who were on point in observing the unattended luggage in Penn Station, the officers who tracked the suspect’s movements and passed the information to their fellow officers in the Trenton Transit Center; and Transit officers in Trenton who then located and took the suspect in custody. The case did not stop there. NJ Transit detectives, along with investigators from other law enforcement agencies, continued to work the case that eventually led to the suspect’s indictment. . .” Evan Nappen 05:47 Now, according to two complaints and the indictment in this case, the allegations are as follows, folks. This is right from the Attorney General’s News Release. At Newark’s Penn Station on January 3, 2025, at approximately 2:55 pm, a NJ Transit Police officer noticed an unattended black and white zebra print suitcase. Always watch out for those zebra print suitcases. In front of McDonald’s adjacent to the entrance to the Newark subway. A K9 unit arrived, and officers cleared the bag for the presence of explosive devices. Inside the suitcase, however, an officer found a Glock handgun case. The case contained a Girsan Regard MC handgun with a fully loaded 18-round magazine. Now that Girsan Regard is essentially a Beretta 92 clone, best way to describe it. They come standard with 18-round magazines. By the way, the suitcase also contained an AR-style magazine loaded with .223 rifle rounds and a plastic bag containing a shirt. What? A shirt? And two boxes labeled 9 mm bullets, four boxes of .223 caliber bullets. A zipped secondary compartment in the suitcase contained a pink duffel bag Page – 2 – of 14containing a black Zastava Arms AK-47 style rifle with one round loaded in the chamber and multiple loaded magazines. I don’t think that pink duffel bag comes standard with that AK, but there you go. Evan Nappen 07:39 It further says that a review of camera footage at the train station showed a man, allegedly later identified as Kennerk, wearing a black jacket and red pants, carrying two suitcases, one of which had a zebra print, and the other was a dark maroon colored suitcase. The suspect walked away, allegedly, leaving the zebra print suitcase, and went to the Amtrak ticket window. It was learned that the subject was boarding an Amtrak train bound for Virginia and the next stop would be the Trenton Transit Center. Two police officers boarded an Amtrak train when it arrived at Trenton. Kennerk allegedly showed the officers a valid Amtrak ticket for a different train and said he boarded the wrong train. He was directed to wait for the next train, which would be arriving within an hour. Before that train arrived, the officers in Trenton were notified about a person of interest wanted for weapons possession in Newark and saw Kennerk about to board another Amtrak train. Before he could board the train, Kennerk was arrested. Evan Nappen 08:46 Police searched Kennerk’s suitcase and allegedly found multiple weapons, including an AR-15 style rifle that was separated into the lower and upper receiver, multiple caches of ammunition, multiple extended magazines, and multiple handguns. While conducting the search of the bag, police allegedly removed a separate rifle that was loaded with .300 AAC Blackout ammunition. While removing that rifle from the suitcase, multiple handkerchiefs were observed wrapped around the trigger guard. I don’t think the trigger guard had a cold, but anyway. The officer placed the muzzle into the suitcase pointed at the ground and attempted to remove one of the handkerchiefs to render it safe. At which time the firearm discharged without the officer engaging the trigger, indicating that the gun was allegedly booby- trapped. Evan Nappen 09:56 Okay, let’s talk about this, shall we? Do you think that gun was booby-trapped? I don’t know. What do you think, Teddy? Do you think it was booby-trapped? Teddy Nappen 10:09 It seems pretty clear that the Transit Police don’t know how to check if a gun is loaded or not. Evan Nappen 10:17 Precisely, precisely. Because if you’re going to render a firearm safe, you don’t want to be a GOFU. And what is a GOFU? Not first checking to make sure that the firearm is unloaded. In other words, you get a gun with handkerchiefs wrapped around its trigger, no less, or any firearm. Any time you’re handed a firearm, rule number one, even if the person right before you checked it, you always check it. Drop the magazine and clear the chamber. Obviously, that didn’t occur, because for the gun to fire, there was a round in the chamber. And if there was a round in the chamber, then the magazine was not most likely extracted. And even if the magazine was not in it, plainly a press check. Right, Teddy? Would be called for. And in this case, with an AR, you’re gonna pull back that charging handle, pull back the bolt and make sure that chamber is clear before doing anything concerning the trigger. But. Page – 3 – of 14Teddy Nappen 11:31 The only thing I’m kind of curious about is, um, the only thing I’m curious about is, just for practicality’s sake, why would he wrap handkerchiefs around the trigger? Evan Nappen 11:42 Well, that’s a good question, and we don’t know the answer. But I can tell you why. The gun, probably, and I’m purely speculating here, most likely, there’s a strong possibility, that that AR, had a binary trigger. So, a binary trigger, which is legal under federal law and most likely there’s going to be a good legal argument made by the State that binary triggers are prohibited in New Jersey. We’ll get into that in a little bit. But what a binary trigger does is it fires the gun when you pull the trigger, and it fires the gun when you release the trigger. So, in other words, a firearm with a binary trigger has both your standard trigger that you would associate when you pull it and what is called a release trigger. Now, release triggers are used throughout the sporting world in shot gunning. There are many trap guns and other shotguns where it’s a release trigger so that you pull the trigger and it doesn’t fire when you pull it, but when you release it, it fires. And some folks that engage in sport shooting at clays prefer a release trigger so that the firing of the shotgun the belief is that it is better for shooting at clays in some techniques of shotgun shooting, where the release trigger might be preferred by individuals. So, a release trigger is a known trigger used in the sporting world. And one of the top manufacturers of release triggers is Franklin Armory, of course. They make binary triggers for ARs. Evan Nappen 13:44 Now, if there’s a round in the chamber after pulling the trigger on the first shot, that would load another round into it. Then if the trigger was not depressed, and let’s just say, in this case, wrapped with handkerchiefs for whatever reason, I have no clue. But then there’d be a round in the chamber, and upon the release of the trigger, the gun would then fire. Of course, it would not fire if the chamber had been cleared first, which obviously did not happen here, because it fired. Instead of being critical of the officer’s failure to clear the chamber, we’ll just make this out to be a booby-trapped rifle that was set to cause widespread damage and injury, according to the Attorney General’s news release. Whereas the so-called risk could have been curtailed with proper checking of a firearm’s chamber to ensure that it is unloaded before ever touching a trigger. Evan Nappen 15:08 So, that is a takeaway for all the listeners, so that you don’t create a GOFU with any firearm, at any time. Always make sure the magazine is removed. If it’s a cylinder on a revolver, make sure the cylinder is emptied. On a semi-automatic firearm, after removing the magazine, make sure there’s no round in the chamber. Look in the chamber. Pull it back once, twice, even three times. Make sure there’s nothing there, that it’s absolutely empty. And that’s how you ensure that a firearm is rendered safe. I’m sure that most of my listeners are well aware of that, but if not, now you are. Teddy Nappen 15:54 By any chance, did, uh, did the article go into why the guy was traveling? Just. Page – 4 – of 14Evan Nappen 16:00 No, it didn’t say, why? It didn’t say what makes him a certain person. It doesn’t say anything along those lines. I mean, the majority of just about everything here is arguably lawful in his home state, even the allegation of so-called silencers. We don’t know if they were NFA registered. Teddy Nappen 16:25 Or just cams. Evan Nappen 16:26 We don’t know. Or maybe not, because I’ve often seen false silencer charges. I once had a case where a client of mine had a Browning rifle with the Boss system on it that, you know, stops barrel vibration. If you have ever shot a Browning Boss, it actually makes the gun louder, and the State charged him with possession of a silencer. I’ve seen muzzle breaks and flash suppressors alleged to be silencers. Now they’re claiming there were some baffles as well. Maybe they are. I don’t know. It could or maybe is, maybe isn’t. Maybe they’re just parts that are not necessarily federally controlled or not. I don’t know. But the silencer charge New Jersey is a fourth degree. The second degrees are the serious ones, which include assault firearm, even though the news release refers to it as assault weapons, as assault rifle. Then they do use the word assault firearm. They sprinkle those terms around like salt. Evan Nappen 17:29 This is something where if the person is a prohibited person and he’s loaded with all these guns, maybe there’s something nefarious or not. I don’t know. The article doesn’t indicate anything about that, other than he was charged for having a firearm for an unlawful purpose. But I see that charge all the time being placed upon persons because of how broad the so-called unlawful purpose can be stretched. So, we don’t know if there actually was a bona fide, identifiable, unlawful purpose here, because that isn’t stated in the news release. And you know, it’s not unlawful, necessarily, for transporting firearms interstate. There is a federal law that permits it. But, of course, your guns, first of all, can’t be loaded. So, if this guy had loaded guns, well, that’s a GOFU on him, right out of the box, transporting on Amtrak. There are special requirements, same as on an airplane. It doesn’t appear that any of those things were observed here. So, another possible GOFU there on lawful transport. Teddy Nappen 18:43 We got a meeting to it now. Don’t fly out of Newark and don’t go on Amtrak in New Jersey. Evan Nappen 18:50 Well, one thing you don’t want to do is leave your luggage unattended, because that’s really stupid. Not only for what all apparently may have led to here, but also because you don’t want to lose your valuable property. So, you better be careful while traveling so that your property isn’t misappropriated. Now, you know, the interesting thing on this about a binary trigger. If we look at the actual definitions, well, how is a machine gun defined in New Jersey? “Machine gun” means any firearm, mechanism or instrument not requiring that the trigger be pressed for each shot and having a reservoir, belt or other means of storing and carrying ammunition which can be loaded into the firearm, mechanism or instrument and fired therefrom. A machine gun also shall include, without limitation, any firearm with a trigger crank attached. (N.J.S. 2C:39-1i.) Page – 5 – of 14Evan Nappen 19:52 Now, a binary trigger is not a trigger crank. It doesn’t crank; so, that’s not included. The definition of trigger crank is any device or instrument attached to a firearm that repeatedly activates the trigger or firearm through the use of a lever or other part that is turned in a circular motion; provided, however, the term shall not include any weapon initially designed and manufactured to fire through the use of a crank or lever. (N.J.S. 2C:39-1ff.) So, in New Jersey, Gatling guns are legal. That’s right. Gatling guns are exempt from the trigger crank definition and exempt from the definition of machine gun. So, if you want to possess a Gatling gun, that’s fine. And as you know, they make modern Gatling guns that fire .22s, that fire 9 mm using Glock mags. And of course, if you are fortunate enough to have one of the original Colt Gatlings or any of the historic, great, incredibly valuable Gatling guns, then good for you. I’m envious of you, for sure. But Gatling guns are lawful. Notice the definition on trigger crank does not include a binary trigger by its definition. Evan Nappen 21:13 Then bump stocks are, of course, prohibited. Bump stock means any device or instrument for a firearm that increases the rate of fire achievable with the firearm by using energy from the recoil of the firearm to generate a reciprocating action that facilitates repeated activation of the trigger. (N.J.S. 2C:39-1ee.) So, a binary trigger is not a bump stock. But is it a machine gun? One of the ways maybe the state might argue in New Jersey that it is a machine gun is because New Jersey’s definition differs a little bit from the federal definition. Binary triggers are lawful under federal law, and federal law defines machine gun under 26 U.S.C. 5845(b) under the National Firearms Act. Any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger. Evan Nappen 22:16 A binary trigger actually has two functions of the trigger, the pulling and the releasing. Whereas New Jersey says a trigger can be pressed for each shot. So, the not requiring that a trigger be pressed. You press the trigger, but then you release the trigger. The initial firing takes place, pressing, they would probably argue the second shot fires when it’s released. But does that press cover for both actions or not? Because you can’t do a release trigger without pressing the trigger. So, I don’t know. That’s an interesting legal question. I’m not going to advise anybody to possess binary triggers in New Jersey, unless you want to be the test case. And I don’t think you do. But who knows this one might be? And that’s assuming this was a binary trigger, which it may not have been. It sounds like it if the handkerchiefs were wrapped around a trigger keeping it depressed. Then upon releasing the handkerchief, that is something that would have made a release trigger fire. So, there you go. An interesting case for sure. We’ll see what issues come out from it, and if more information comes out, we’ll keep you informed. Evan Nappen 23:46 So, Teddy, tell us about your Press Checks. And as we know, Press Checks are free, and they’re important to do. Page – 6 – of 14Teddy Nappen 23:54 Well, if anyone’s been kind of following a little bit of the news, you’ve noticed that the Dems have been having a little bit of a civil war, where you have the two factions that have splintered off each other. You have the establishment Democrats. You know, Pelosi, Schumer, all those. Then you have the woke, ultra left progressives, the AOCs, the Bernie Sanders, that section. Well, if anyone remembers everyone’s favorite gun grabber, known as David Hogg, who is now a vice chair with his group “Leaders We Deserve”, he’s decided to put $20 million to primary other Democrats. Evan Nappen 24:48 Is that thru the DNC? Teddy Nappen 24:51 Yes, they’re using their own money to primary their fellow Democrats. As was described by Bearing Arms in the article, it’s a circular firing squad, which you know as a bunch of gun grabbers that’s about what they do with it. But what’s very. (https://bearingarms.com/camedwards/2025/04/17/gun-control- activist-accused-of-circular-firing-squad-by-dnc-official-n1228342) Evan Nappen 25:10 Bearing Arms, by the way, is an excellent news source for Second Amendment information, and I’d highly recommend it. It’s great. (bearingarms.com) Teddy Nappen 25:20 Absolutely. They did a fantastic article talking about what exactly his goal. Which, by the way, the money that he’s going to be handing out to those candidates, this is in David Hogg’s own words from The Hill. Hogg argued that the status quo in leadership in the U.S. has given way to issues like the threat of school shootings, climate change, the lack of affordable housing, student debt, which he said, have all a particular impact on young people. So, very clearly, you see where this money is going to. It’s going to. Every Democrat that he’s pushing for in the elections are going to be all for gun control. I mean, the entire party is die hard when it comes to gun control. Teddy Nappen 25:26 They’re the party of Second Amendment oppression. Of rights oppression. Of civil rights oppression when it comes to the Second Amendment. That’s what they’re all about. And he is, of course, the king of that given his absolute. Teddy Nappen 26:25 He was part of March for Our Lives, guild birds. The whole usual group. Evan Nappen 26:29 All the gun rights oppressionists groups. They couch it all under the term of “gun safety laws”. It’s all for gun safety. Of course, it doesn’t have anything really do with safety. It just has to do with oppressing the Second Amendment and control. That’s exactly right. Control. Teddy, I appreciate you bringing that to our attention. Page – 7 – of 14Teddy Nappen 26:57 I will say, and I thought this is quite hilarious. So, if you’re familiar with James Carville, you know, the Democrat strategist. Evan Nappen 27:07 Crazy Cajun. Teddy Nappen 27:08 Yeah, Crazy Cajun. It’s the economy, stupid. Like, kind of that guy. He decided to go on Newsmax and on Newsmax. Sorry, he would never go on Newsmax. News Nation. Evan Nappen 27:21 Oh God. Teddy Nappen 27:21 And it was on News Nation. In his interview, Carville called Dave Hogg, a contemptible little twerp, as he was threatening. Evan Nappen 27:33 Well, Carville is funny. He said. Teddy Nappen 27:36 Yeah, he is funny. Like he is a treat. Just. Evan Nappen 27:39 He is funny. He cracks me up. Teddy Nappen 27:41 Yeah, he has. Evan Nappen 27:43 Well, my favorite quote by Carville. Teddy Nappen 27:46 Great stuff. Yeah. Evan Nappen 27:47 My favorite quote by Carville is how he described Pennsylvania. He said Pennsylvania is Philadelphia and Pittsburgh, with Alabama in between. That’s pretty good, actually. That pretty much nails it. Teddy Nappen 28:02 Well. Page – 8 – of 14Evan Nappen 28:03 And let’s talk about our good friend. Teddy Nappen 28:05 It was actually, Teddy Nappen 28:07 Well, I was gonna say. I just wanted one last bit. He is pushing to sue David Hogg for the Democrats. Like doing. He’s talking about, like, a fiduciary duty. He doesn’t even. Evan Nappen 28:07 Oh, go ahead. Evan Nappen 28:20 So, they’re like, I don’t even know either. That’s why it’s a firing squad, huh, a circular firing squad. Teddy Nappen 28:25 Yeah, exactly. Evan Nappen 28:27 So, the Dems are. Teddy Nappen 28:28 It’s pretty funny. Evan Nappen 28:29 Biting each other here, over there, huh, just going at each other because they’re so frustrated over their absolute earth shattering losses and how they’re always. When the issue is 80/20, they’re always on the 20. How they can’t get leadership, how their agenda has been proven to be a failure to America. The destroy America party. Yeah, it’s pretty good. Teddy Nappen 28:55 Yeah. Their poll numbers are like, I think, 20 or 21, or so. Like, it’s just low. Evan Nappen 28:59 Yeah. Well, good. Let’s hope they keep at it. Never, never, stop your enemy when they’re making a mistake. So, these sound like great policies. I hope, and I wish all the success in the world to Mr. Hogg in his efforts to primary any moderate Democrats. Please do that. Please. Great idea. Great idea. Let’s support that whole hog. Evan Nappen 29:26 Okay. Our good friends at WeShoot, by the way, have some interesting information. WeShoot, number one, WeShoot will be closed for Easter on April 20. Also, they are proud to announce that you can meet and greet Bill Spadea, the gubernatorial GOP candidate for New Jersey. He’s going to be at WeShoot Page – 9 – of 14on April 23 from 6 to 8 pm. This event is open to the public. We encourage everyone to come and participate. And while that event is ongoing, the range and store will remain operational but expect a larger crowd than usual. Now, there will be a closure for a private event at WeShoot on April 24, and doors will close at 5 pm with the last entry at 4 pm. WeShoot wants to remind you to make sure that you make arrangements to prevent your gun purchase permit from expiring. Because remember, if you got a NICS or a gun permit for purchase, they have time limits. You have to use it within the 90 days. So, make sure that you do and that you’re aware of your time frames. You don’t want to have that problem. Evan Nappen 30:47 Also, WeShoot has a very interesting announcement, and that is regarding whether if anyone is visiting Florida for Passover or Easter, WeShoot has teamed up with Shooters World, the number one gun range in Central Florida. And thanks to their exclusive partnership, you can enjoy a free range experience valued at $135 for access for you and a guest. Just use code WESHOOT25 at the participating Shooters World location before April 30, 2025. So, if you’re a WeShoot member, that is awesome, and you can still continue to shoot in the wonderful state of Florida, and that is very cool. Remember, if you need any training, if you want a great range, if you want fantastic pro shop, you want to check out WeShoot in Lakewood, conveniently off the parkway. It’s where Teddy and I shoot as well. Everybody loves it. Go to weshootusa.com and check out our good friends at WeShoot. Evan Nappen 32:12 Also, our good friends at the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. They are deep in the battle for our rights. They have a full-time paid lobbyist in Trenton, and we’re fighting hard against the new laws proposed by Murphy and the Democrats. Again, more gun rights oppression in New Jersey, and the Association is on it. They are in the courts. We’re waiting any day now for some results. We expect to hear very shortly over the challenges to the Carry Killer law, the magazine ban and the assault firearm law. These are all things that are in the federal courts, being challenged, fighting for your rights. If you’re not a member of Association, anjrpc.org, you need to be. You need to be part of the solution. By joining, you will get all the email alerts as to what’s going on. You’ll get a beautiful, great newsletter. The finest printed newsletter on gun rights in New Jersey. And you will be proud to be part of the solution, my friends. Evan Nappen 33:26 By the way, this is also where I want to mention the Bible of New Jersey gun law, which is my book, New Jersey Gun Law. It’s not surprisingly named New Jersey gun law. Because it’s over 500 pages with 120 topics, all in a question and answer format. It will help you from becoming a GOFU. It is the user manual to New Jersey’s insane gun laws. I don’t want to see you become a victim of New Jersey gun laws. This book is a labor of love by yours truly. You can purchase the book by going online to EvanNappen.com. You’ll see the big orange book there. Just click it and order your copy today. When you get it, scan the QR code on the front and join my free private subscriber base where you will immediately gain access to the 2025 Comprehensive Update that fully updates the book. And as new laws are passed and there are changes in laws, I will send out email alerts to all my subscribers for free so that you can stay current with the law. Page – 10 – of 14Evan Nappen 34:41 So, we have some great letters here from our listeners, which I always love. This is from Bill. Bill says regarding new registration law regarding gun shop owners. That was last week’s show about the new requirements from that Point Blank lawsuit. I don’t have a question, but I do have an opinion about this law. The state is attempting to drive gun shops out of business. Except for a handgun, some gunners will shop across the Delaware River. Bill is absolutely right. This is all part of the gun rights oppression to make it harder and harder and harder to be. Teddy Nappen 35:19 They want to create gun deserts. Evan Nappen 35:22 Yeah, exactly. And they’re using these laws to crack down further, making it more and more difficult to conduct a lawful firearm Second Amendment business in New Jersey. So, Bill is absolutely correct in his observation. This one is from Steve. Steve said, I just listened to the GOFU of the week, and I am confused about what falls under the NFA rules that New Jersey ignores. I’m a dual resident and do most of my shopping out of state. What can or can I not bring home with me? Non-compliant weapons are pretty obvious, but compliant firearms are not. The “gun related” items are not clear. Be it magazines, as in the podcast, weapon lights, optics. What flies and what exposes us to the rather of NJ? I don’t know what that may be. The wrath. He probably meant the wrath of NJ. Also, is this the correct place to ask this question? Yes, it’s the correct place to ask this question. Evan Nappen 36:23 So, Bill. I mean, Steve. There are things that, unfortunately, you’ve confused a little bit. Let me just clarify based on your letter. Number one, NFA, which is National Firearm law, Firearm Act, technically. It’s the National Firearm Act that is a federal law which prohibits machine guns, silencers, destructive devices, any other weapon that’s a category, short barrel rifles, sawed off shotguns. In order to lawfully possess those under federal law, you need to pay a tax stamp and go through federal registration. But even if you do that, New Jersey has separate state bans on virtually all NFA items. So, New Jersey has its own machine gun ban. New Jersey doesn’t care that you have a properly registered tax stamp paid federal machine gun. New Jersey just says it is banned. Evan Nappen 37:11 They don’t care that you have a properly registered short barrel rifle. New Jersey has its own prohibition on short barrel rifles. New Jersey doesn’t care if you’re sawed off shotgun is all federal legal. New Jersey has a separate ban on that. They don’t care that your suppressor or silencer is NFA lawful. You paid the tax stamp and are good to go. Because New Jersey has its own separate law banning that. The same with any other weapon. They have bans on just about everything that the Federal law prohibits but allows, by way of the tax stamp registration. New Jersey just flat out doesn’t allow it, and the exemptions are extraordinarily narrow. They really don’t apply to just average law-abiding citizens anyway. New Jersey is not ignoring NFA rules. Page – 11 – of 14Evan Nappen 38:13 So, if you’re thinking about guns that are not NFA, but might seem to be NFA, but are not NFA, then you might be thinking about what are called “others”. For example, with the Mossberg Shockwave, New Jersey follows federal law that does not view the Shockwave, even though it has 14-inch barrel and fires a 12-gauge shotgun load, as a sawed off shotgun. It’s considered an “other”, and New Jersey follows that ruling. At least as far as I know, they haven’t changed on that. So, a Shockwave is not prohibited in New Jersey, in the same way that it’s not NFA under federal law. But if something is NFA under federal law, then New Jersey pretty much has a companion state law that says, too bad, New Jersey prohibits it. But if it is something that’s not NFA, then we can look and see how New Jersey law treats it. That’s where you may find firearms that are non NFA, that are others that New Jersey does allow. Evan Nappen 39:23 Now, as far as shopping goes, the compliant weapons issue that you’re concerned about, whether something’s “gun related” has to do with the obligations being placed upon gun shop owners and businesspersons. They are put under this law in which they cannot sell these things to somebody unless they have demonstrated enough by identification and background check, et cetera. That the person is not prohibited from possessing a firearm, even when it comes to buying a magazine or a gun part or a firearm accessory. That’s where the stores and the shops are at risk over this. But it’s not a prohibition on individuals possessing those items. It’s a prohibition related to how the businesses must conduct themselves, above and beyond, in terms of anything that would actually be prohibited for a person to possess. But the stores have to take these added precautions, as we discussed in the previous show. So, thanks, Steve, for asking. Because if people are confused, because New Jersey laws are complex, and they do get confusing, I’m always happy to address it and straighten it out. Evan Nappen 40:50 Here’s a question from Steve. This one is about CCARES Protocol Questions. So, CCARE is the qualification course you take to get your New Jersey carry permit. And what it says is, is there any further guidance on CCARE Protocol other than the original document? No, there’s no other guidance that I’m officially aware of. There were a couple of questions raised that don’t seem to be specifically addressed. Sequence of distances – Are the distances (15, 10, 7, 5, and 3 yards) required to be done in that order? Well, the order is not necessarily a requirement, but it’s best to follow the protocols as they are laid out. So, this way the instructor can certify that you’ve met the protocols as per the CCARE. Your best bet is follow what it says. Magazine reloads – Is it permissible to load semi-auto mags with the 10- round capacity, then shoot two strings of five shots? Of course, reholstering safely between each string of five shots. I wouldn’t recommend it, because one of the things CCARE is looking to test is your safe handling, your core competency with a firearm. The loading and unloading, removal of magazines, holstering, and re-holstering. Those things are part of the protocol that they’re looking for. CCARE, remember, is not gun specific, but they want to make sure you can extract empty mags, put new mags in, and that you can properly holster and re Holster your firearm safely. And that’s what CCARE is looking for. So, I wouldn’t go that 10-round mag route. Steve further says, love your podcast. Teddy Nappen 42:44 Don’t do the highwayman’s role at the CCARE event also. Page – 12 – of 14Evan Nappen 42:47 Yeah, please don’t do that. No highwayman’s role there, where you make believe you’re handing the gun over, flipping it and then firing it. That is not part of CCARE and not advisable at all. Steve further says, and this is important, Teddy. Because this is a compliment to the show that I have to read that says, love your podcast. Look forward to it every week. Keep up the great work. Thanks, Steve, for your compliments as well. Evan Nappen 43:16 Here’s a letter from Jimmy. Jimmy says, Gun Lawyer. I just want to say thank you for telling us listeners about The Royal Mint and the George Orwell coin. I just got mine in the mail today, plus the Battle of Lexington and Concord. Thank you for sharing your knowledge on them, Jimmy. Hey, Jimmy. I’m really psyched that you got it. Isn’t that just the greatest example of absurdity. I think the U.K. there is utterly clueless that they have become the nightmare of George Orwell. And for them to make a George Orwell coin. I have the George Orwell coin. It’s the eye that watches you. The big brother, silver dollar, George Orwell coin from The Royal Mint, is sitting on my desk right now with its watchful eye over me. Yes, it is absolutely great and just hilarious that, of all places, the United Kingdom would present the George Orwell commemorative coin. Evan Nappen 44:19 I think the Democrat Party should actually make the George Orwell eye their symbol. It would be very appropriate as well. Maybe David Hogg could consider that as a fundraiser as well. But it really does have some great benefit, owning the official George Orwell coin. And then, of course, you did notice that the Royal Mint is selling, ironically, the Battle of Lexington and Concord commemorative. I guess they’re commemorating their defeat and the American revolution that occurred in winning against England. So that we can hopefully not end up an Orwellian state as the U.K. has. There you go. Thanks, man. Teddy Nappen 45:07 They had to decommission the coin that was of the Boston Massacre. Evan Nappen 45:14 Well, there you go. And I guess Mr. Adams would have had a say in that one, as he defended those folks, as you may recall. Not that you were there then, Teddy. I might have been there. I’m old enough, but not you. And finally, Kenneth says, Hi, Evan. I’ve really been enjoying your podcast. I started from the very first episode. Oh, you are a die hard, Kenneth. I give you credit. I’ve been hooked ever since. Ahhh, yeah, that’s how I do. I get you in on one episode, and then you’re hooked. Thank you for all the work you do for the firearm community. I truly appreciate it. I’m curious if you’ve explored using AI to identify or highlight problematic aspects of proposed legislation. Do you think AI will have a significant impact on how gun laws are shaped or challenged in the future? Evan Nappen 46:02 So, let me just say I have not needed AI to point out all the GOFUs and idiotic problems of New Jersey gun law. It just naturally comes with the territory. But it is a good question about AI. My belief with AI is Page – 13 – of 14that it’s going to be used to further oppress Second Amendment rights. They’re going to use AI in information gathering, in analysis, in the records, etc, and use it to target and harass and further deteriorate our rights. And I’m afraid of AI’s use in that manner. Teddy, what do you think about AI? Teddy Nappen 46:45 So, there’s been a lot of use where, for instance, they actually had an AI do the bar exam. Of course, it got a perfect score, because that’s what happens when you give a computer all the information and all the answers. There’s also the fact that there’s been a use where people have been using AI to write motions. Well, they just say, hey, I need a motion to suppress, and then it’ll just spit out an entire motion citation. Evan Nappen 47:14 That’s not a good idea. Teddy Nappen 47:16 Correct. Because it got them wrong. A lawyer, I don’t remember what, but someone got cited because he used AI, and it cited the wrong sources. So, I don’t. Evan Nappen 47:29 It made up stuff, and it doesn’t even, can’t always distinguish parody. It has all kinds of issues like that. Plus, the other thing is, lawyers have to be extraordinarily careful with AI. Because if you use AI, it gets into the public domain what you did, and you’re not protecting client confidentiality then. So, that can also be a problem, particularly in the field of law. But AI is something that we’re looking, in a way, to some exciting and at the same time, extraordinarily scary potential in the future. But, of course, our podcast isn’t dedicated to sci-fi predictions. Still, I can tell you that I worry about its application when it comes to Second Amendment oppression. Evan Nappen 48:16 Hey, this is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens. Speaker 2 48:27 Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state. Page – 14 – of 14 Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S3 E234_Transcript About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets. Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News. As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists. He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America. Email Evan Your Comments and Questions  [email protected] Join Evan’s InnerCircleHere’s your chance to join an elite group of the Savviest gun and knife owners in America.  Membership is totally FREE and Strictly CONFIDENTIAL.  Just enter your email to start receiving insider news, tips, and other valuable membership benefits.   Email (required) *First Name *Select list(s) to subscribe toInnerCircle Membership Yes, I would like to receive emails from Gun Lawyer Podcast. (You can unsubscribe anytime)Constant Contact Use. Please leave this field blank.var ajaxurl = "https://gun.lawyer/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php";

Episode 233-Jersey’s Newest Registration Scheme Also Available OnSearchable Podcast TranscriptGun Lawyer– Episode 233 SUMMARY KEYWORDS New Jersey gun laws, de facto registration, Attorney General, consent order, gun store, unlawful sales, firearm enforcement, gun industry, reasonable controls, gun-related products, firearm possessors, verification records, Second Amendment, federal enforcement, anti-gun movement. SPEAKERS Speaker 3, Teddy Nappen, Evan Nappen Evan Nappen 00:15 I’m Evan Nappen Teddy Nappen 00:16 And I’m Teddy Nappen. Evan Nappen 00:18 And welcome to Gun Lawyer. So, New Jersey is at it again, and this time it’s a doozy. This is the beginning of their de facto registration plans to gather information and find out who has purchased any magazines, of any type, magazines of any type, and any gun related product of any type. Wait till you hear about this one. The Attorney General (Matthew J. ) Platkin has just recently put out a news release, folks, where they announced a consent order resolving a suit against a gun store in New Jersey for “unlawful sales to unverified buyers”. (https://www.njoag.gov/ag-platkin-announces-consent- order-resolving-suit-against-gun-store-for-unlawful-sales-to-unverified-buyers/) That’s the heading of the news release. Evan Nappen 01:22 Apparently what happened was there was a complaint filed by the Attorney General’s Office, this is right from their news release, in November of 2024. It was filed under their so-called SAFE, the Statewide Affirmative Firearms Enforcement Office, against Point Blank, located in East Hanover, which is a gun shop in East Hanover. The Attorney General claimed that they sold a handgun ammunition magazine, and two months later, 1,000 rounds of .223 ammo to a first time customer. They made sales in cash and did not ask to see any type of identification, permit or credential of the purchaser, or otherwise take steps to exclude sales to prohibited firearm possessors. Evan Nappen 02:26 “I will not tolerate lax and unlawful practices by firearms businesses — the very kind that can lead to a deadly mass shooting,” said Attorney General Platkin. “Our Legislature and Governor put these laws into place to keep us safe and they must be followed. We are glad that Point Blank has agreed to follow the law going forward.” Further, Ravi Ramanathan, Director of SAFE, says, “Gun stores must take Page – 1 – of 9 reasonable steps to make sure that they only sell ammunition”, and get this, “and other gun-related products to people who can lawfully possess a firearm. I appreciate that Point Blank has accepted responsibility and has agreed to change its practices going forward.” Evan Nappen 03:24 Well, gee, what exactly did they agree to and what’s going on? Well, I’ll tell you what, folks. In this same news release, which there will be a link on the website for you to read, you can also read the actual consent order that was posted online by the Attorney General as well. This order was filed (March 13, 2025), and let’s review it, because, my friends, the devil is in the detail. The picture being painted here is pretty scary. Let me tell you why and show you why. Evan Nappen 03:58 In this final judgment, the way it begins, it says, “Findings of Fact”. Under these facts, one of the key facts, “On March 20, 2024, Point Blank sold a Glock Model 22 .40 caliber 10-round pistol magazine to a first-time customer who did not present any identification or credential prior to making the purchase (the “March Sale”).” Now, prior to any of this, there was never a law that required a purchase permit or any type of identification on the sale of a magazine. But wait until you see what they’ve done with this new law that passed. And, of course, none of this was really emphasized as to what their actual sneaky plan was, but it’s revealed now. They also said they sold a case of 1,000 rounds of .223 to a first-time customer who did not present any identification or credentials. Evan Nappen 05:17 The consent order goes on to say the Conclusions of Law. Now, this is from the actual filed court document. It says, under N.J.S. 2C:58-35(a)(2), listen carefully to this, “A gun industry member shall establish, implement, and enforce reasonable controls regarding its . . . sale of gun-related products.” Do you see how broad that is? Gun-related products. What are reasonable controls? Well, they first make it clear that Point Blank is a gun industry member, and then they quote the definition of what is encompassed by a “gun-related product”. It means, and this is pursuant to the statute signed into law by Murphy, N.J.S. 2C:58-34, ready? Any firearm, ammunition, ammunition magazine, firearm component or part including, but not limited to, a firearm frame and a firearm receiver, or firearm accessory, which product was, or was intended to be, sold, manufactured, distributed, imported or marketed in this State, or which product was possessed in this State and as to which it was reasonably foreseeable that the product would be possessed or used in this State. Evan Nappen 07:00 Look at how broad this gun-related product definition is. It includes any magazine, all ammunition, all gun parts and any firearm accessory. What else is an accessory, folks? Think about it. Is a scope an accessory? Is a gun case an accessory? Is a forearm? That’s a gun part. Is it also an accessory? A screw? It’s so broad and ridiculous. Plainly here, it’s already including just an ordinary 10-round magazine. What about this law? How is it? What was determined here? What got established in this Point Blank case? Well, wait until you hear, folks. It further says that “reasonable controls” include, ready? Reasonable procedures, safeguards and business practices that are designed to (1) prevent the sale or distribution of a gun-related product to a person prohibited from possessing a firearm under state or federal Law. Page – 2 – of 9 Evan Nappen 08:20 So, that means now it’s incumbent on any member of the gun industry to make sure that they don’t sell any gun-related product to someone who might be prohibited from possessing a firearm. It extends that disqualification, that person who can’t possess a firearm, extends that liability now to every gun industry member, every dealer, manufacturer, et cetera, everyone that falls under that category, to now have to put safeguards in to make sure that none of these things ever gets sold to that person, even though those people are not prohibited under law themselves from just possessing a magazine. They’re not prohibited under law themselves from possessing a gun part unless it’s an actual receiver. They’re not prohibited under law themselves from having a gun case or a screw to a gun or any other of the accessories. They’re firearm prohibited. But now those people cannot be sold any gun-related products. Evan Nappen 09:37 And now what does the dealer have to do to comply? What did Point Blank agree to? What are the procedures that the Attorney General has created here in this new approach with this consent order? Well, “Future Compliance Obligations” (from the consent order), wait till you hear this. Point Blank shall establish, implement, and enforce, without exception, procedures and business practices that are reasonably designed to prevent the sale or distribution of any gun-related product to a person prohibited from possessing a firearm under State or federal law. Subject to adequate documentation, adopting and successfully implementing the point-of-sale procedures and business practices contained in this Consent Judgment shall be deemed sufficient. Evan Nappen 10:41 So, what does Point Blank have to do in order to comply? If they’re completing any of these sales or distribution of gun-related products, they can only be sold to persons who are licensed in New Jersey as a manufacturer, wholesaler or dealer of firearms, or to persons who hold and possess a valid New Jersey Firearms ID Card or permit and first exhibit the card or permit to Point Blank. For the purposes of this paragraph, a valid New Jersey firearms card or permit means: a valid physical New Jersey firearms purchaser identification card, or an electronic New Jersey firearms ID card, which Point Blank confirms matches identifiable information on a valid government photo ID, or; a valid physical New Jersey permit to purchase a handgun, or an electronic permit to purchase a handgun, which Point Blank confirms with that valid government-issued photo ID, or; a valid New Jersey permit to carry a handgun, or an electronic one, or; a valid credential identifying the purchaser as a public safety officer, or; a valid ID that establishes them as a law enforcement officer, or; other documents valid under Title 18 U.S.C. 926(c) for a qualified retired law enforcement officer. Evan Nappen 12:09 Then Point Blank shall keep records for all sales of gun-related products detailing the means used, including any Identification or credential presented, including the New Jersey State Bureau of Identification (SBI) number, verify that the person is not prohibited under state or federal law, under the verification of records. The Verification Records may be kept in either physical medium or digitally, as long as the records are maintained and secured in a manner that will comply with federal and state law. Now, get a load of this. Here’s the real kicker, right here. “For a period of one year after the Effective Date of this Consent Judgment, Point Blank shall transmit copies of the Verification Records to the Page – 3 – of 9 Statewide Affirmative Firearms Enforcement (“SAFE”) Office on a monthly basis. For the following one- year period, Point Blank shall transmit copies of the Verification Records to the SAFE Office every other month. For the one-year period thereafter, Point Blank shall transmit copies of the Verification Records to the SAFE Office every six months. Evan Nappen 13:41 So, when you buy any gun-related product from Point Blank, your information is being taken down, recorded, verified and provided to the State of New Jersey, folks. This is the law that the Attorney General says applies now to all gun dealers and gun shops in New Jersey, and they are going to be enforcing it accordingly. So, if dealers are not taking these steps, recording, verifying and making sure that the person that they sell to is not prohibited under federal or state law from possessing a firearm, no gun-related products can be sold or transferred. And this data, this record, this information, must be kept by all dealers in New Jersey. Point Blank is now under the obligation to provide them on a monthly basis, or pursuant to what I just said, to the State of New Jersey. So, New Jersey now gets to build their database. Not just of firearm owners, not just of ammunition purchasers, but of magazines, simple magazines, that are legal and every other gun-related product. This includes all firearm accessories. Evan Nappen 15:21 This is outrageous. It is gun rights oppression in full bloom. Beware, folks. If you want to get on government of New Jersey databases, here’s how it’s going to happen. And if you think you’re staying under the radar in New Jersey just buying accessories, nope. Not happening, not happening. And anyone selling from out of state, by the way, they’re not excluded. They’re not excluded. I can assure you. You’re going to see the Attorney General bringing actions against anybody selling gun-related products to New Jersey. They’ve done similar things in the past, where out-of-state sellers didn’t know New Jersey law and sold things that were otherwise completely lawful and only weirdly regulated by New Jersey, and then they go after them in these huge lawsuits, huge lawsuits. Teddy Nappen 16:27 You have to give them credit. It’s quite brilliant on their part. Because all they had to do was test it on, you know, two random dealers. Evan Nappen 16:35 And now they’ve established the outline that listeners of Gun Lawyer are now hearing about in detail. Plus, Point Blank had to pay $2,500 for attorneys’ fees, filing fees and costs. So, they were stuck with that, too. But what they really wanted to establish here, of course, is what I just said. So, this is a warning, not only to every gun owner in New Jersey about the incredible privacy violation taking place on purchasing lawful items, but to the dealers, manufacturers, and others that fall under that gun industry member definition and who knows what firearm accessory itself even means. In this case, they focused on magazines. But I can well see so many other things being put under this broad umbrella, and it is just outrageous. And there Teddy Nappen 17:38 Now, could there be a challenge, though, for vagueness, because this is such a broad definition? Page – 4 – of 9 Evan Nappen 17:43 Well, I guess there could be a challenge, but the challenge did not take place here. Instead, Point Blank consented to this arrangement. And look, I don’t know. I’m just speculating. But look, if you’re going to litigate against the State of New Jersey, with all those resources, this could get extremely expensive, and they instead made their choice. I don’t know whatever they weighed to do it. But the fact is, this is now established, in this case, for Point Blank, and it is laying a road map. I’m sure you can see where they’re going with it. And nothing says that this information remains confidential, private. Nothing. No, no one says it can’t get data based. As a matter of fact, they can even store the records digitally as permitted. I mean, this is New Jersey again, taking the steps to further oppress our Second Amendment rights. Evan Nappen 18:49 That actually brings me, folks to interesting things that are happening in the news. One of the things that I am absolutely most excited about is federally. We are seeing some great positive changes in protecting the Second Amendment, and one of those things that’s really important is the establishment by Pam Bondi, the Attorney General, of the Second Amendment Task Force at the Department of Justice. (https://bearingarms.com/camedwards/2025/04/09/bondi-announces-second-amendment-task- force-at-doj-n1228253) Evan Nappen 19:33 They’re going to be looking at the enforcement of the Second Amendment, not as a second-class right. It is, quote AG Bondi, a policy of this Department of Justice to use its full might to protect the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding citizens. This is laying the groundwork for the Department of Justice – Civil Rights Division to enforce civil rights criminally against those that are oppressing gun rights. They have already launched an investigation into the policies of the L.A. Sheriff’s Department when it comes to issuing concealed carry permits. They’re looking as well at New York’s delays in processing permits. It appears to be just as bad as L.A. and California as well. Evan Nappen 20:42 And just think about what we’re dealing with in New Jersey. The New Jersey laws that are plainly oppressive and infringing. It is my belief that we are going to see action by the federal government finally enforcing the Second Amendment as a civil right, which it is, and not as a second-class right. This fight is going to be fascinating to watch. But for now, you know what we’re dealing with in New Jersey in this recent press release and settlement by the Attorney General, creating what is arguably a de facto beginnings of a registration scheme for every gun-related product sold into or in the State of New Jersey. Evan Nappen 21:37 Teddy, you have your Press Checks segment because we all know that Press Checks are free. What do you have to tell us about today? Teddy Nappen 21:46 Well, on the issue of anti-gun Attorney Generals, we’ve been having a lot of wins, just looking in the news. A lot of great wins for the Second Amendment. But after what you just talked about, we must be Page – 5 – of 9 reminded that the anti-gun movement is still thriving. They are still fighting, and they are targeting specifically Attorney Generals. On the Truth About Guns website, they posted that Everytown is looking to spend $10 million to support and help elect, in 10 key swing states, Democrat AGs. (https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/everytown-anti-gun-ag-campaign/) This is ones in Georgia, Minnesota, Nevada, Wisconsin, Virginia. You just saw what happened in New Jersey? What the AG did? He created the SAFE office, where they’ve launched this insane program. They’re going after gun dealers here. This is their game. They are trying to establish all these anti-gun AGs on the ground locally to attack firearm dealers. Teddy Nappen 22:54 Also, remember the big lawsuit against Glock? It was led by the Maryland AG, who partnered with Everytown. The Illinois and Hawaii AGs, who tried to take down the Federal Protection Lawful Commerce and Arms Act. You see right there is the strategy. Witnessing it with the SAFE Office. That is their goal. And if you actually go on the Everytown website, they’re bragging about it. In 2017, they invested $5 million to elect Attorney Generals nationwide. In North Carolina, the Attorney General partnered with the People’s Lawyer project, and they got Jeff Jackson. They invested $500,000 in Michigan and $500,000 in Nevada. The money is spreading. They took a page out of George Soros. Everytown celebrated their victory in the Wisconsin Supreme Court, where they sent money to Judge Susan Crawford, as well. They spent nearly a million dollars. You see the strategy, what they’re trying to do, where they’re spreading their influences. Evan Nappen 23:58 This is another form of weaponization of the system. To oppress our rights. It’s exactly what they’re doing, and this is all in line with it. Also, I hope the DOJ federally really, really begins the aggressive enforcement against this oppression. This is going to be a battle. It’s going to be a battle for our rights. And it’s this innovative technique of the 2A oppressors, to utilize prosecutors here, to utilize consumer protection laws, to pass these laws under the guise of that, to expand anti-Second Amendment policies, always under the heading of safety laws. Safety, safety. It’s all about “safety”, but it’s not really about safety. It’s about taking our rights. It’s about oppression of the Second Amendment. Gathering information and creating the databases so that when they can gain their power back, they can take it to the next level, folks. This is what it’s all about. This is what they’re doing. Teddy Nappen 25:20 To go off of Matthew Platkin, AG Platkin, he even brags about on his website. The goal is to create a coalition to combat gun violence. (https://www.njoag.gov/ag-platkin-steps-up-efforts-to-combat-gun- violence-through-coalition-with-other-states/) His words from his website. They had 16 other Attorney Generals joining this multi-state coalition. Evan Nappen 25:39 And they always put it under that banner. They always claim, “gun violence”. Like gun violence is a special, standalone violence. The only reason they want to isolate it is so that they don’t have to call it gun control, because gun control doesn’t sell. So, if we make it about “gun violence” and we make it about safety, then we can sell it to the stupid public and make it look like we’re doing something good. Page – 6 – of 9 When what they’re engaging in is right suppression of the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution. And that’s their game. That is their game. Evan Nappen 26:14 And yet we see, federally, again, some great progress. The DOJ and the ATF have announced the end of the Biden zero tolerance policy, which was utilized to shut down dealers throughout America by having zero tolerance for any paperwork violation. That fits their agenda so they could just wipe out dealers by going after them and giving them no ability to change their ways. Just close them down and revoke them under the zero tolerance. It was an outrage. It’s now been revoked, and they’re even looking to get dealers that suffered under that unjust injustice licensed, to get their licenses back. It was a disgusting move by the Biden administration. There’s no limit to what they’ll try to do. But elections have consequences, and you can see that President Trump and his administration are taking steps to remove the oppressions that were put forward by Joe Biden. Evan Nappen 27:36 Hey, let me tell you about our friends at WeShoot. First of all, they have some special hours of operation for April. They will be closed on Easter. That’s Easter Sunday, April 20th. However, they would like to announce that WeShoot will be hosting a Meet and Greet with the gubernatorial GOP candidate, Bill Spadea. He’ll be there on Wednesday, April 23rd, from six to eight pm. The event is open to the public, and WeShoot encourages you to come by and meet Bill as the GOP candidate. They also want to make clear that on April 24th WeShoot will be closed for a private event. WeShoot is where Teddy and I shoot and where so many others shoot. We love that range right there in Lakewood. They have great training. You can get your CCARE certificate to get your carry. They have a fantastic range and a great pro shop. They have plenty of guns. They will outfit you, set you up, and train you so that you can be a responsible gun owner. WeShoot is, like I said, conveniently located right off the Parkway in Lakewood. You can check them out on their website, which is weshootusa.com. They have a beautiful website with great photos. They run all kinds of great events and offer spectacular training. All your gun needs can be met at WeShoot, from shooting to buying to training. What a great place. Check out WeShoot. Evan Nappen 29:20 I also want to mention our good friends at the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. They are the premier gun rights organization in New Jersey. They are the NRA affiliate of New Jersey. They have a full time paid lobbyist in Trenton, and they are fighting these gun laws. Another package of gun rights oppression has been put forward by the Democrats and Murphy and company, and the Association is there fighting for us. It has not become law yet. They’re doing a great job. You want to support the Association. You want to join. Go to a njrpc.org, and make sure you are a member. You’ll get the email alerts of all the shenanigans taking place in Trenton and our continuing fights in the federal courts. They are challenging these outrageous laws, including the assault firearm law, the magazine law and the Carry Killer law, and more and more. It looks like we’re going to have even more lawsuits, because New Jersey keeps on coming. And that’s why you need to be a member of the Association (ANJRPC.org). Page – 7 – of 9 Evan Nappen 30:27 While you’re at it, make sure you get a copy of my book, New Jersey Gun Law. It’s the Bible of New Jersey gun law. It is over 500 pages with 120 topics, all in a question and answer format. It is the guidebook used by everyone that wants to know about New Jersey gun laws. It is your number one ability to not become a GOFU. To get my book, go to EvanNappen.com and look for the big orange book. It’s the 25th Anniversary Edition. And when you get the book, scan the front cover for the QR code right there, and join my free subscriber base. It’s private. When you join, you get immediate access to the archives, and you can download right away the 2025 Comprehensive Update that completely updates the book. And as new laws pass, you will know. I will send out alerts to my subscribers for free, and you can download any of the new materials so that you stay current. The book stays current, and you can hopefully not be a GOFU in New Jersey, because the hits keep on coming. The fight is on. We have to keep battling. The price of liberty is eternal vigilance, and that’s what it takes. Evan Nappen 31:43 Hey, there’s still more positive things going on federally. Not the least of which is a new federal law that has been put forward to deregulate short barrel rifles, short barrel shotguns and any other weapons. They are going after the NFA, the National Firearm Act. (https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/short-act- nfa-repeal-pistol-brace-ban/) This new law is called the SHORT (“Stop Harassing Owners of Rifles Today) Act. S, H, O, R T, and that was the House version. And I believe this one is called the rifle act. Anyway. Don’t worry about names. The bottom line is, we’re seeing action federally to try to scale back the abuses of the National Firearm Act by arbitrarily declaring certain guns to be intrinsically a problem, which, of course, they’re not. It’s never the guns. It’s the people. It’s people that are the key to the problem. It’s not the firearms. Focus on inanimate objects is stupid. It is a fool’s errand, and yet good people suffer. Law-abiding citizens get turned into criminals. The NFA has been turning law-abiding citizens into criminals since the 1930s, and it’s about time we see changes. This is long overdue, and this is yet another good sign of things happening federally. Evan Nappen 33:09 And that’s not the only thing. Just recently, President Trump and his administration have pared back the anti-gun CDC. That’s right, the CDC was used as yet another propaganda arm of gun rights oppression. They were trying to make guns a health issue, which, of course, it is not. And by using that and using the funds to help spread the propaganda, this has been a continuing game by the Democrats, by the left, and by the anti-gun rights oppressors. President Trump has now taken steps to pare back the anti-gun CDC Center and their efforts to infringe on our rights and create this false narrative of a health issue. It is really great and positive to see the things that are happening federally, in contrast to how sad and disappointing it is to see things that are going on in our state. But the fight continues, and it’s critical. Evan Nappen 34:29 Let me take you now to our favorite segment of the show, the GOFU, the Gun Owner. Fuck Up. GOFUs are important because these are expensive lessons learned by others that you get to learn for free. So, you get quite a bargain when you listen to Gun Lawyer. Remember, these are all based on actual cases and things that come my way. This week’s GOFU has to do with the NFA. In other states, where Page – 8 – of 9 they respect gun rights and allow law-abiding citizens, as long as they follow the federal law, which does need to go, but as long as you follow it, you’re allowed to have NFA firearms. Evan Nappen 35:11 When you come to New Jersey, you can’t bring those NFA guns here, and it creates a problem. Simply because your gun has been federally registered, whether it’s your firearm, silencer, suppressor, SBR (Short Barrel Rifle), or any other weapon, whatever it is under the NFA that was legal where you lived before, and you have all the federal registration and paperwork on it, it does not, in any way, preempt or override New Jersey’s ban on all those items. So, please don’t bring your legal NFA items into New Jersey. You do not have protection simply because you’ve obeyed all the federal laws surrounding it. And by the way, there also are federal laws for many National Firearm Act items when you want to bring them across state lines. If you move with them, there are often requirements that you have to let ATF know about certain NFA items. If you do change your address, it has to be to a place where it’s legal. Be very careful when dealing with NFA and be very careful if you have the misfortune of having to move to New Jersey. Evan Nappen 36:24 This is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens. Speaker 3 36:34 Gun Lawyer is a Counter Think Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state. Page – 9 – of 9 Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S3 E233_Transcript About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets. Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News. As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists. He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America. 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Episode 232-Is the RoTo 12 Jersey Legal? Also Available OnSearchable Podcast TranscriptGun Lawyer– Episode 232 SUMMARY KEYWORDS Roto 12, black powder firearm, American Gun Craft, New Jersey gun laws, destructive device, assault firearm, mail order restrictions, replica firearms, UK gun bans, ninja swords, Cory Booker, gun control, Second Amendment, Justice Department, Civil Rights Act. SPEAKERS Speaker 2, Teddy Nappen, Evan Nappen Evan Nappen 00:15 I’m Evan Nappen. Teddy Nappen 00:17 And I’m Teddy Nappen. Evan Nappen 00:19 And welcome to Gun Lawyer. So, one of the questions that has come my way, that I think is interesting and the analysis will be of interest as well, is this. Is the Roto 12 “Chain Saw” Shotgun legal in New Jersey? (https://americanguncraft.com/product/roto-12-cs-chain-saw-shotgun-no-ffl-required-copy/) Now, you may be saying, what the hell is a Roto 12? Well, the Roto 12 is interesting as a firearm. It’s made by American Gun Craft. Now, American Gun Craft makes black powder firearms, and for the longest time, they made a black powder, double barrel, shotgun pistol. It’s literally a 12-gauge pistol that is a double barrel, short double barrel, 12 gauge pistol. However, it fires black powder ammunition. So, you would muzzle load it with black powder, muzzle load a 12 gauge slug or buckshot. And yeah, it operates at a 12 gauge level. But it is, in fact, a black powder handgun. Evan Nappen 01:37 And so, one of the questions is, is that American Gun Craft, what they call their Diablo. It’s one of the models there. Is that double barrel handgun pistol Jersey legal? And then what happened was, they’ve come out with this brand new Roto 12, and the Roto 12 is a very compact pistol version. And then another version, the “Chain Saw”. If you ever saw the Mossberg (590) Chainsaw where they put the grab handle on top of the firearm that just has a pistol grip with a shotgun barrel. (https://www.mossberg.com/590-chainsaw-50692.html) Well, they have that configuration for the Roto 12. And the Roto 12 is very innovative. It is an eight shot revolving cylinder in which you can load the cylinder with the load. So, you’ve got eight shots, and then you can fire eight 12 gauge shots out of this rotating barrel. Black powder, 12 gauge, very modern shotgun. And this Roto 12, by the way, accepts a standard AR-15 grip and AR-15 style stock with a buffer tube. Even though the gun itself doesn’t use a buffer tube, you can stock it. Page – 1 – of 13 Evan Nappen 03:18 Of course, all these legal questions start surrounding the Roto 12, and I’m going to address them, because the analysis will help you to better understand just how crazy our gun laws are. So, of course, we have two jurisdictions that would be at play – federal law and state law. Now the company sells this firearm all over the country, and they claim no FFL is required. And why is that? Well, that’s because it is a black powder firearm, and under federal law, as a black powder firearm, it is not within the scope of the modern FFL firearm requirements. So, it’s not a gun that would be put into a dealer’s books and disposed of accordingly and handled the way it would a regular cartridge-firing shotgun using a modern cartridge in modern power. Evan Nappen 04:28 So, what this does is create the closest thing you can to this 12 gauge, eight shot, cylinder-fed shotgun, pistol-size firearm, and they can sell it with no FFL throughout America. Federal law doesn’t have an issue with this, because black powder firearms are not covered under the federal gun laws. They are excluded. However, in New Jersey, they are not. In New Jersey, a black powder firearm is treated exactly the same as a modern cartridge firing firearm. So, the fact that it uses black powder, is a muzzle loading into the cylinder, the way the old 1860 Army Revolvers loaded or the 1851 Navy pistol revolvers loaded. You know, you load this cylinder, and you can fire multiple shots. It’s that but in 12 gauge. That is still considered a firearm in New Jersey, and the double barrel handgun pistol would normally be looked at as the equivalent of a modern handgun in New Jersey. Evan Nappen 06:02 But the problem with both of these is that they are 12 gauge, and because they’re 12 gauge, they actually would come under the category of “destructive device” (DD). New Jersey defines a “destructive device” as any device, instrument, or object designed to explode or produce uncontrolled combustion, including, and then it says, any weapon capable of firing projectiles of a caliber greater than 60 caliber. (N.J.S. 2C:39-1c.) Twelve gauge is up past 70 caliber. It’s a problem. Then it says, except a shotgun, where shotgun ammunition generally recognizes suitable for sporting purposes. Well, what you have here is not going to be a shotgun generally recognized as suitable for sporting purposes, even though Jersey views it as a modern shotgun in the same category. They don’t distinguish. Evan Nappen 07:18 So, what you have is a shotgun that is black powder firing. It’s still considered a shotgun, but it has to be recognized suitable for sporting purposes. Then, even if it is that, because it fires a caliber over 60 cal., that double barrel pistol has a problem being a DD. But even if the shotgun is considered exempted to the DD, then we have a new problem. The new problem is under New Jersey’s assault firearm law. N.J.S. 2C:39-1.w(1) has the definitions. The very first part of it prohibits “any shotgun with a revolving cylinder . . .”. So that was going after initially, what? The “Street Sweeper” and the “Striker 12, right? But they didn’t just use those names. They said “shotguns with revolving cylinders”. So, if you’re saying this gun is somehow exempted because it’s a shotgun, even because it’s over 60 cal., and you’re claiming that’s not a DD, a destructive device, because it’s a shotgun, then if it is a shotgun, it’s prohibited as an assault firearm because it’s a shotgun with a revolving cylinder. Page – 2 – of 13 Evan Nappen 08:51 This is the trap that New Jersey has laid for these guns. Plus you can’t receive them through the mail in New Jersey, because acquisition of a handgun or a rifle or a shotgun would require paperwork and having a NICS check on it via the state law. You can’t just receive firearms by mail order in New Jersey. So, they can’t do that. If you end up ordering one of these and you have it sent to you, and I don’t know if the company will even send it to New Jersey, but if they do, there’s an issue raised even on your receipt of it. There’s a further issue if you get it out of state and bring it into New Jersey, because you’re basically possessing contraband. So, folks, beware of the Roto 12. As cool as it looks and seems, it is a big problem in New Jersey. And by the way, in case you’re wondering, the price of a Roto 12, it’s right on the website for American Gun Craft, is $1,255. That’s right, $1,255 for a Roto 12. So, there you go. Teddy Nappen 10:07 It actually kind of reminds me of, do you remember the show “Sons of Guns”, where they were trying. The guy came in and asked, hey, could you make me a ballistic knife that was legal? And so, what they did is, instead of using the spring, it used black powder. They would just, like, fire it like a pistol, which if I recall, that still made it illegal. Evan Nappen 10:33 It was because the problem is that the definition of a ballistic knife is any device that propels a knife blade. (N.J.S. 2C:39-1u.) And, of course, New Jersey’s prohibition on ballistic knives is so broad in the definition of what propels a knife blade that it basically covers all broadhead arrows. You know, we’re waiting to see someone get charged with possession of a ballistic knife because they were deer hunting with broad head razor arrows. What does an arrow and a bow do? It propels knife blades. So, that law is pretty broad and vague, and unfortunately, it is still very pesky. I would tell anyone be careful, because if they can make examples out of folks, I’m sure they’ll try at some point. But yeah, it does look like that. It’s pretty funny. But these are unique, and they get around a lot of federal laws, that’s for sure. Not in New Jersey, but it does create a whole interesting proposition for the rest of the country. It’s pushing the envelope pretty hard when you’re making a compact shotgun that’s 12 gauge, holds eight rounds, and doesn’t require an FFL, right? But like I said, in New Jersey – verboten, so be careful with that. Evan Nappen 12:00 You know, New Jersey is not just the only place that is banning and prohibiting these days. Never to be outdone, we have the insane U.K., the United Kingdom. They are now going to ban ninja swords by the summer. (https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2025/03/28/uk-to-ban-ninja-swords-by-this-summer/) That’s right. They call it “ninja swords”, not Katanas, you know. Not even Asian sword, but no “ninja swords”. But they defined that ninja sword so broadly that it brings in basically any sword that has a tanto blade geometry. It consists of here. The ninja sword has a blade between 14 and 24 inches with one straight edge and a tanto style point. Evan Nappen 12:55 So, with that tanto and the blade of that length, it’s banned in the U.K. That means some of the most valuable Japanese and Asian swords, some of the most valuable, priceless, swords that go back centuries, centuries, are now just going to be banned. No compensation to owners. No exemption here Page – 3 – of 13 for antique or collectible. Nope. We’ve just got to ban swords because they basically took care of all the gun bans they could think of. But that doesn’t stop them. So, now they’re on the kick of anything with an edge, and swords are now their latest sacrificial lamb. Prior to this, they banned the zombie knife. Zombie knife. What the heck is a zombie knife? Well, you know knives that are used to kill zombies, of course. So, you know how dangerous zombie knives are. I thought zombies, frankly, were more dangerous than zombie knives. Didn’t you Teddy? I mean really. And by the way, what’s going to happen in England when they ban zombie knives and the night of living dead takes place there? Teddy Nappen 14:13 Well, uh, 20 or, you know, 28 days later, that’s, yeah. Evan Nappen 14:19 Yeah, they’re gonna need all the zombie knives and Katanas they can get their hands on. But then again, England has never been, UK. has never been smart about that. I mean, even in World War II, they were begging us to send them our guns, literally, civilian guns, because they so foolishly disarmed their own people. Yet, they don’t learn. They don’t learn. It’s kind of funny to see them saying how important it is for us to fight in Ukraine because of Russia. And, you know, that’s a real threat. But you’re disarming your people that would be able to fight. As in World War II, when you disarm them. So, you had to take guns out of civilian hands in the U.S. to even get guns. I mean, the Rifleman Magazine, the NRA, had big ads, donate your guns to England for the war, because they disarmed themselves and made themselves vulnerable. Well, they’re at it again, and not just guns, but swords as well. Teddy Nappen 15:21 I think there was a good description of the U.K., as if the left had unfettered power, what would we become as a nation? And the best example is always the UK. They are completely disarming their people, losing every ounce of their nation and culture. Now going after “ninja swords”. I mean, at this point, I’m waiting for them to do the William Wallace, where, if you are caught with a sword, you are drawn and quartered. Evan Nappen 15:54 You know it is really something when you see the insanity that is the U.K. these days. They’re just destroying themselves from the inside out. And look, we’re talking about the country that, as we talked about, just did a commemorative coin for George Orwell that consists of an eye watching you all the time. People are like, is that like the perfect commemorative coin for the Royal Mint to make? They have no clue why it’s so perfect, but yeah. That’s like it in a nutshell. Teddy Nappen 16:32 What they want. It’s what they want. Evan Nappen 16:35 Yeah, and they have become what they’re always threatening about us. We’ve got to worry about totalitarians. Totalitarians is what they’re pursuing with just these bans and taking people’s property. Not allowing the people to be able to protect themselves and outlawing self-defense. Yet, as ridiculous as the U.K. is when it comes to these things, the U.S. is still not to be outdone. Just recently, over 1000 Page – 4 – of 13 replica firearms and suppressors, actual replicas, toys, my friends, toys, were seized by the CBP and the CP SC at LAX. (https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/local-media-release/over-1000-replica-firearms- and-suppressors-seized-cbp-and-cpsc-lax) That’s right. U.S. Customs Border Protection (CBP) and the Consumer Protection Safety Commission (CPSC). Isn’t that great? Those two are joining up here. Have helped public safety beyond belief by seizing over 1,000 replica firearms. They’ve already destroyed 953 replica firearms and 111 replica suppressors. It is crazy. A lot of this stuff, this replica stuff, can’t be fired. Can’t be shot. It’s not an actual firearm in any way. They’re originating from China, and they are being intercepted and destroyed. How dare they send model toy guns to the U.S. Especially model toy guns that do not have, folks, this is their sin. Do not have a blaze orange plug inserted in the barrel. Right? Teddy Nappen 18:34 Oops. Evan Nappen 18:34 No plug. No, no Peter, butt plug there, whatever that guy. He’s really something. And you gotta have this, you got to have this. So, without this plug, it is contraband. It is a violation of the federal law that requires toy guns, look alike firearms, and imitation firearms sold or transported across state lines to have a blaze orange plug inserted in the barrel, or a stripe on both sides of the barrel. So, there you go. And so, the scourge of imitation firearms is being stopped by the hard-working folks in our federal government. We should be proud of their tremendous efforts in keeping us safe from toys. Teddy Nappen 19:29 Out of curiosity, just kind of looking at New Jersey. Have you ever had it where a guy like either working as a public defender? Was there ever one where a guy tried to rob a convenience store using a replica gun? Has that ever come into play? Evan Nappen 19:44 Well, people have tried to use replica guns all through history. As a matter of fact, one of the most famous was Dillinger, who, in jail, took a bar of soap and turned it into a Colt automatic pistol. As a replica. Of course, it didn’t fire anything but soap bubbles. He blackened it with shoe polish. And I’ll tell you. I saw that gun at the FBI Museum. Dillinger’s actual gun, because he used it to escape from jail. Because, I’ll tell you right now, if Dillinger points a Colt automatic at you, you’re not gonna say, hey, buddy, I think it’s soap. It’s Dillinger pointing a gun at you. So, yeah, you pretty much believe him and that had a lot to do with it. But I’ll tell you what. I saw that that soap gun, and damn was it accurate. He knew his guns, man. It was a magnificent replica that he just did from memory in a jail cell on a bar of soap. That guy was quite skilled. Hell, he could have gone legit just selling soap guns. I guess he was so good at that. Evan Nappen 20:48 But yeah, replica firearms can be used wrongly. They can be used to commit crimes and all. But, like all these things with guns, banning guns isn’t the answer. It just isn’t. In the end, it doesn’t work. And what does happen is good people suffer. I mean, I’m sure companies that were going to sell replica firearms here are going to suffer. There’s collectors that don’t want to hang real firearms up, but want to admire Page – 5 – of 13 replicas. You know, this is totally legitimate to have a desire to have replica firearms. And that’s just like they are replicas. Teddy Nappen 21:29 It actually reminds me of the old bit where, you know, I get to see this getting banned, where, if you have a banana in a brown bag, uh oh, replica firearms. Evan Nappen 21:39 Yeah, the old gag they used to dream how extreme they’ll go. There’s never a shortage of extremism when it comes to going after our rights. Teddy Nappen 21:51 Well, people do the smash and grab. They’ll take a truck and smash into a convenience store, grab stuff and run. Evan Nappen 21:58 Well, hey, Teddy, before we get to your Press Checks segment, I want to tell everyone about our good friends at WeShoot, because WeShoot is making a big point about their pre-loved guns. I own a lot of pre-loved guns. I’m willing to share and to share the love with pre-loved guns, and so should you. And these pre-loved guns they have are in excellent condition, and they’re all checked out by folks at WeShoot to be quality pieces. And they have quite a selection of pre-loved guns, and I’ll name some. They have a SIG Sauer P365 XL, with add ons. They’ve got Shadow Systems, used. I love the Shadow Systems guns. They’re great. I have a CR 920 Elite, a very fine gun. Shadow Systems. They’ve got a Taurus G2C, and CZ P09, and a Magnum Research .44 mag, Browning Buckmark, Taurus PT9. Now you can see a whole array here, man, of great pre-loved guns. Colt 1911 Mark IVs, Kimbers, FN 509s, Beretta Neos. Walther Q5 Match and Walther PPQ 5″ and Walther PDP F and Walther PPQ and Walther CCP M2. All the Walthers, the whole alphabet, super Walthers. They’ve got them. Plus they’ve got pre-loved Glocks, the 17 and 19, 35 and 21, the 19X not just the 19 and 19x. Ruger 57 in 5.7 by 28. You have Colt Commander by Colt. Canics, Smiths, Rugers. Tons and tons of pre-loved guns. Definitely worth the trip. You get a bargain, you get a deal, and you get a fine firearm. Plus you can get your training, and you can shoot at the range. Great place, great folks. WeShootUSA.com. weshootusa.com is their website. Check out their website. They’re located right in Lakewood, in a easy to reach, right from the parkway, right there. Central Jersey area. A great resource and a great range. Evan Nappen 24:45 I also want to mention our good friends at the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. They are the state affiliate. They are the state NRA affiliate. Hey, we have the NRA Annual Meeting coming up next month, the big annual meeting of NRA. The Association is the NRA of New Jersey. They’re the state affiliate, and they work hand in hand with them as well, defending our gun rights. They’re the folks that have a full-time paid lobbyist in Trenton, their own lobbyist, fighting for our rights. They’re in the courts as we speak, litigating against these God awful laws that just want to oppress our Second Amendment rights. You really need to be a member of the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs, anjrpc.org. When you join, you’ll get all their email alerts, and you’ll know that you’re helping to Page – 6 – of 13 fight the 2Aoppression in New Jersey. You’ll be part of the solution, not the problem. Go to Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs.org, anjrpc.org, and join today. Evan Nappen 25:58 Finally, it’s time for me to shamelessly plug my book, which is the Bible of New Jersey gun law. It is called, not surprisingly, New Jersey Gun Law. It’s over 500 pages with 120 topics, all in a question and answer format. And it is the guidebook, the book that will help you understand, what is the understandable? If that’s a word. An un understandable, how’s that? And that’s what you will get. That’s basically New Jersey in a nutshell. If you had to describe it, it’s un understandable, because even that word’s on understandable. I try to make it so you can truly understand New Jersey gun law by putting it in question and answer format, making it so that we have updated it, and keeping the book current. When you get your book, scan the QR Code, you can go to the free subscriber base, 100% free and private. You’ll be able to download the 2025 Comprehensive Update. And down the road here, new laws look like they’re going to pass, unfortunately, in New Jersey. As soon as they do, I will be able to tell you what you need to know about those laws. So, Teddy, tell us about Press Checks today. What have you discovered? Teddy Nappen 27:33 Well, as we know, Press Checks are always free. So, on the happy Liberation Day, as the tariffs have been kicked off for President Trump. One thing that was kind of circling a bit, but seemed to have been a little. Maybe you heard or if you remember the mayor of New York, no Newark. Sorry, not New York. Newark. Cory Booker, now Senator Booker, decided to talk for 25 hours for filibustering, but not actually filibustering anything. Well, he decided to bring one of his staffers who was armed into the capital when he wasn’t supposed to be. (https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/5225803-senator-cory-booker-staffer- arrested/) Evan Nappen 28:19 That’s not hypocritical, is it? Teddy Nappen 28:21 What? No. What do you mean? Someone who pushes for extreme amounts of gun control and anti-gun bias throughout his political career, having one of his staffers, who is a retired law enforcement officer carrying inside the Capitol? Yes. Incredibly so. Evan Nappen 28:45 Wow. Even though he’s retired law enforcement, he’s not exempted for that. Teddy Nappen 28:51 Correct. Under HR 218 for the LEOSA. Evan Nappen 28:54 Right. Page – 7 – of 13 Teddy Nappen 28:55 Yeah, he is. Evan Nappen 28:58 The Capitol is still off limits. Teddy Nappen 29:01 Correct. All federal buildings. Pulling from federal, you must follow federal laws. Federal agencies and carrying concealed firearms in certain federal buildings. And oh, look under United States Capitol Police ban permitted grounds firearms including oh, replicas and ammunition and weapons, including blackjack, slingshot. Whoop. There we go. One page out of Jersey’s book. Sand club, sandbag, knuckles, electric, stun gun. Evan Nappen 29:30 All that is banned as well in the Capitol. Teddy Nappen 29:34 Yeah. Evan Nappen 29:34 Dennis the Menace cannot bring his slingshot. Teddy Nappen 29:37 Yes. This comes from the United States Capitol Police center, visiting Capitol Hill. Staff are allowed to possess knives that are under three inches for the blade. Evan Nappen 29:48 How can they trust them with that? Teddy Nappen 29:51 I don’t know. So, again, it’ll be something to say. But yeah, so they ended from the hill, Cory Booker’s staffer was arrested Monday for possession of a pistol, shortly before the Senator began his marathon speech. Yes, the staffer was ID. He was a retired law enforcement officer. So, just taking all that in from, you know. Evan Nappen 30:18 So, was Senator Booker trying to talk us to death? Teddy Nappen 30:21 Well, his whole scheme was he wanted to beat the previous filibuster record, except he didn’t actually filibuster anything. There was no bills up there. He just stood up and talked for 25 hours for no reason. So, quite frankly, it was a waste of time. To give you a little highlight of Cory Booker, just to really show the hypocrisy, this comes from “on the issues” where Cory Booker gun control, great site. (https://www.ontheissues.org/celeb/Cory_Booker_Gun_Control.htm) Kind of lays out all the sites to all Page – 8 – of 13 of his things on the issues of gun control. One of which is Red Flag laws and his were, yes, very important, but they’re nowhere near enough to stop the rising levels. He wants more Red Flag laws. Evan Nappen 31:11 You know, I debated him a long time ago when he was Mayor, on TV, and I met him. I said he’s pretty slick, that guy. Teddy Nappen 31:19 Yeah, he kind of reminds me of Gavin Newsom, just kind of that level. But he’s just. Evan Nappen 31:25 Not as much hair gel, though, on Corey. Teddy Nappen 31:28 Apparently. Yeah, exactly. Evan Nappen 31:30 As a matter of fact, part of Trump’s drill, baby drill, I think was also referring to Gavin Newsom’s hair. Teddy Nappen 31:37 Probably, yeah. But the other thing, and I love this one. This just really highlights it. So, from his mayoral website, from “on the issues”, it shows, and this comes right from now, moving through our federal legislation is an insane idea that says people can carry hidden, loaded weapons, concealed weapons, all throughout the country, regardless of individual state laws. Oh, my God. Evan Nappen 32:08 Wait. Isn’t the sky falling, too? Yeah, it sounds like that. Yeah. So, in other words, national constitutional reciprocity is a boogey man. Is a boogey man. And, of course, this is the same stuff that gun rights suppressionist said at the beginning of the concealed carry movement. They said, oh, shall issue carry permits, we’re going to have BITS. I call it BITS. Blood In The Streets. Blood In The Streets. BITS, BITS. That’s all they ever say. Oh, my God, national reciprocity, where they can carry without permits. Another, BITS, BITS, BITS, BITS. It’s always that. Always the same song every time. And guess what? It’s never true. It’s never true. You know, I’m sorry. What happened to the Wild West when we would get constitutional carry? What ever happened to the Wild West would get shall issue permits? I was looking forward to the Wild West. It never came. What’s going on, folks, come on, you promised me a Wild West. We didn’t even make it to like Roy Rogers stage. Yet those laws passed, and people are defenders instead of victims. But they’re still at it. Scare the people. Scare the people with lies. With lies. Teddy Nappen 33:28 Also, he has always been this extreme on firearms and gun control. From him being a city councilman in Newark, he supported banning of all guns, apparently, not just some. Page – 9 – of 13 Evan Nappen 33:42 Well, that’s so reasonable, right? Teddy Nappen 33:44 I know, right? Yeah, of course, banning assault weapons and all that. Just going after any supported. By the way, him and Eric Swalwell, you remember him? He banged the Chinese spy? Evan Nappen 34:00 Yeah, yeah. Teddy Nappen 34:01 Where they proposed and pushed forward an assault weapon ban. Evan Nappen 34:09 Yeah, he really has a lot of nerve, even showing his face. Yeah, that guy. But anyway, he is not a major force at the moment, but they’re out there squawking, aren’t they? So, I have gotten a number of great letters from our beloved listeners, and here’s one. It says, Good morning, Mr. Nappen. I just heard on your show about the new terrible bills that the New Jersey Democrats are about to pass. My question is, where are the Republican Senators fighting these bills? Do we have a uni party in New Jersey like Washington? Well, that’s really a political question, and a large part of the answer is that the Republicans are not in power. The Democrats are in power. And when they’re in power, they can exercise that power. Now, there are some Republicans that are trying to speak up, but keep in mind, the media doesn’t give the time to what a pro-Second Amendment Republican has to say. Part of it is also, even if they’re out there talking, they’re not getting the coverage because their co-conspirator of the media is on the side of the destroy America party and the gun rights oppression party. You know, the media is with them on that. So, really, that’s why you don’t hear too much on the other side. Can Republicans do better? I’m sure they could, and hopefully they will. But unfortunately, it has to do with the balance of power as it now stands. If we really want to change this, we need to get the Democrats out of power. We need to get the gun rights oppressors out of power, and then this will stop. So, thanks for that good question. I know it’s things that concern us as we see the nonsense that goes on. Evan Nappen 36:11 Here’s a question from Kenneth regarding lever action rifles. Are the magazine capacity restrictions? Are there magazine capacity restrictions for lever action rifles? Who knows? Who out there knows the answer to that question. Do lever action rifles have magazine capacity restrictions? Teddy, do you know the answer to that? I bet you do. Do they? Teddy Nappen 36:42 Sorry, you cut out. What was the last bit there you said? Evan Nappen 36:46 Do lever action rifles have magazine capacity restrictions? Page – 10 – of 13 Teddy Nappen 36:54 Lever Action? No. Evan Nappen 36:55 Right. Correct, correct. The answer is no, and that’s because magazine capacity restrictions under the assault firearm law only apply to semi-automatic firearms. And as far as magazine capacity, that’s only on the section dealing with fixed magazines, which cannot exceed 10 rounds. Other guns that are semi- automatic and accept a detachable magazine, there the magazines, all magazines that will fit a semi- automatic firearm are prohibited if they hold more than 10 rounds. But since a lever action rifle, your traditional tube fed lever action rifle, does not have a magazine capacity restriction. Evan Nappen 37:53 Now let’s say you have a detachable magazine type lever action rifle. There are some of them out there that use detachable mags. Well, that magazine, as long as it does not fit and feed in a semi-automatic firearm, then the capacity won’t matter. But if it has a dual use, let’s say you have a lever action rifle that’ll function with a AR-15 mag. Well, that’s still an AR-15 mag. If it’s over 10 rounds, it’s contraband in New Jersey, even though you were only using it in a lever action. So, unless the mag is specific to the lever action, where it can only be used in the lever action and doesn’t work in semi-autos, then you’re okay. But if it does, then you’re not okay. So, magazine capacity, primarily on the classic fixed magazine lever actions, like your, you know, Winchester 94 or your Marlin 36 or 336, etc. You know, with the tube mag, the amount of rounds they hold is not of any concern. At the moment. They’re not part of that semi-auto. That’s how it works on magazines, my friends. It is yet another area of confusion in New Jersey. Evan Nappen 39:23 By the way, here’s another area. This is from Jack. Jack wants to know regarding non-NFA and other NFA, AOW. So, NFA, of course, is the National Firearms Act and AOW is Any Other Weapon. And what he wants to know is, hi, Evan. I love your show. The advice you give has been useful, and I am a regular listener. I appreciate all your contribution to the 2A community. I have two questions. Are NFA, AOWs legal in New Jersey. There are some FFLs building these who claim it to be legal, but information appears to be contradictory elsewhere. So, if an NFA AOW, depending on the AOW, of course, as long as it’s federal legal now and since NFA and it’s being allowed, it would be. Now the question is, that specific configuration of that AOW, is that violating New Jersey law? And that’s where we have to know exactly the gun that we’re talking about. And unfortunately, here we don’t. Now there’s a good chance that it will be a problem, because New Jersey laws don’t mirror the federal laws so well, and it very well could be. But it’s going to be on a gun-by-gun basis for that question to be properly answered. Evan Nappen 40:48 Are non NFA others? Are they legal to own in New Jersey and comparatively safer to own than AOWs? The answer to that is yes. As you know, non-NFA others, the good old other others, are allowed in New Jersey. They’re not considered assault firearms or other things. They are just others. The State Police do regulate and allow for their sale. So, it’s much better using and having a non-NFA other that has been declared lawful by the State Police, because that declaration alone protects you under New Page – 11 – of 13 Jersey law, which recognizes a defense of ignorance or mistake of law when a person relies upon an official statement under the law. Since the State Police allow the non-NFA others, and they’ve done opinions on that as to why, that’s really your safer road here. But that letter was from Jack. Thanks, Jack, for a great letter and raising important topics. Evan Nappen 42:01 I want to mention something that’s really, I think, going to be game changing and very significant. You’re not hearing a lot about it, but I think it’s very significant. The Justice Department is now prosecuting LA, prosecuting them for violating the Civil Rights Act for not issuing permits. Because they haven’t issued the permits and that was found in a separate case unconstitutional acts, the Justice Department is now going after the gun rights oppressionists in these fiefdoms of abuse of licensing systems and such, where they act unconstitutionally. You’re now seeing the Justice Department take action. And as they said, the Second Amendment is not a second class right. In the same way the Justice Department would enforce other civil rights, be it the First Amendment, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, etc, any of our Constitutional rights, they are now officially going at the bad guys that have abused citizens and violated civil rights when it comes to the Second Amendment. So, I think that is excellent in this new day, in this new approach, and I think we’re going to see some prime candidates for the DOJ to go after here in New Jersey. Evan Nappen 43:43 So, let’s go to the favorite segment that we have, and that is, of course, the GOFU. The GOFU is the Gun Owner Fuck Up. The reason we talk about GOFUs is that I see GOFUs every day in my job, when the gun owner makes a mistake that’s costly. It can cost them their freedom, cost them their career, their lives, their families because they messed up on a Jersey gun law. And they can be very expensive lessons, but you get to learn these lessons for free, because we talk about the lessons on Gun Lawyer. They are not always criminal, but they can still end up causing grief for your rights and your exercise of your rights. Ruining even your reputation and that is the heart of today’s GOFU. Evan Nappen 44:40 One of the things I see out there is a trick, a trick that some licensing agencies in New Jersey may try to pull. And what I’m talking about is when you apply for your Firearm ID Card, Pistol Purchase Permit or a Carry Permit. You’re going through your local police or the State Police, depending on your jurisdiction. What happens is somebody is being denied or is going to get denied, but they’re getting denied for a Lamo reason. I mean, a lame o reason that they’re barely able to justify. But for whatever reason, this issuing authority doesn’t like guns, doesn’t like issuing permits, doesn’t like this person for whatever reason, so they’re going to deny them. They’re going to deny them most likely under the Public Health, Safety, Welfare clause. A clause that says, you know, the person is somehow a threat or danger under public health, safety, welfare based on character, temperament. Evan Nappen 45:45 And in reality, that denial clause right there is what I call the all-inclusive miscellaneous weasel clause, because they abuse the hell out of it. And if you ever get a denial for that, they’re the ones that are always worth fighting, because it’s pure bias and speculation and opinion by the issuing authority. But here’s the deal, folks. If someone gets a denial, we have 30 days to bring an appeal. Sometimes they’ll Page – 12 – of 13 be told the denial verbally, but they’re supposed to get it in writing. They’re supposed to get a letter in writing, saying the reason, and then that gives us 30 days from that letter to file. Unscrupulous folks that are sometimes in positions of power will deny verbally and not send the letter. This way, at some point in the future, if the letter finally goes out, then a claim can be made that you’re outside the time to appeal it. Then you’re stuck with their decision. So, they wrongfully run out the clock on the time to appeal by not sending the written letter. Then when you try to appeal, oh, well, we verbally told you. You knew. What do you mean? Or whatever other lame excuse. So, the bottom line is, when you get a denial, if you do, you need to fight it, and it needs to be done timely. You need to be within those time limits to do it. It’s very important that we do that. So, don’t be a GOFU. If you need an appeal done, make sure it gets done in a timely manner, and don’t fall for just some verbal that you’ve been denied. You need to get it in writing, because that forms the basis on the filing of the appeal. Evan Nappen 47:42 This is Evan Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens. Speaker 2 47:53 Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state. Page – 13 – of 13 Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S3 E232_Transcript About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets. Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News. As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists. He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America. Email Evan Your Comments and Questions  [email protected] Join Evan’s InnerCircleHere’s your chance to join an elite group of the Savviest gun and knife owners in America.  Membership is totally FREE and Strictly CONFIDENTIAL.  Just enter your email to start receiving insider news, tips, and other valuable membership benefits.   Email (required) *First Name *Select list(s) to subscribe toInnerCircle Membership Yes, I would like to receive emails from Gun Lawyer Podcast. (You can unsubscribe anytime)Constant Contact Use. Please leave this field blank.var ajaxurl = "https://gun.lawyer/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php";

Episode 231-The Oppression Continues  Also Available OnSearchable Podcast TranscriptGun Lawyer– Episode 231 SUMMARY KEYWORDS New Jersey gun laws, Second Amendment, anti-gun bills, digital instructions, accidental discharge, felony offense, domestic violence restraining order, constitutional carry, concealed carry reciprocity, knife owners protection act, travelers gun rights act, gun owner gulag, press checks, gun lawyer. SPEAKERS Evan Nappen, Speaker 2, Teddy Nappen Evan Nappen 00:15 I’m Evan Nappen. Teddy Nappen 00:17 And I’m Teddy Nappen. Evan Nappen 00:19 And welcome to Gun Lawyer. I have a lot of news. Teddy has a lot to report. We have a really big show for you today. Let’s start with New Jersey’s continuous oppression of our Second Amendment rights. Teddy Nappen 00:35 You would think that Murphy would get tired? Evan Nappen 00:37 Yeah, no. He’s never gets tired of socking it to gun owners, and this is bad. Teddy Nappen 00:43 Of course. Evan Nappen 00:43 You have to know about it, and you need to take steps to fight it. And one of the things you can do to fight it is make sure you belong to the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. They’ve been sending out the updates and the emails that have the automatic ways that you can let your voice be heard. It’s really important. Go to a n j r p c.org, and join today as a member. They are the folks that have a full-time paid lobbyist right in Trenton. They are alerting the troops. You want to belong and be one of the troops. We need you. You need to make sure you’re a member of the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. Page – 1 – of 16 Evan Nappen 01:27 We’re looking at an array of anti-gun bills that have now passed the Assembly and are heading to the Senate to be signed by Murphy. These are BAD bills. They’re really bad, and it’s going to impact severely. Teddy Nappen 01:50 Would you say they’re Florio level bad or Murphy level bad? Evan Nappen 01:55 They are just oppressive in new and creative ways. And it’s hard to say which one of those governors was worse. They both sucked when it comes to gun rights. And let me tell you about these bills. Number one, we have A4975. (https://www.njleg.state.nj.us/bill-search/2024/A4975/bill- text?f=A5000&n=4975_R1) Now this bill creates a crime, which is, of course, a felony level offense in New Jersey for possession of digital instructions to illegally manufacture firearms or components. All right? And what it does is it makes it a crime, even if you never make a gun, simply having the digital file on your computer is enough for you to be charged. Basically, they’re treating data and information about guns the way they treat child pornography. I can assure you that, with this bill, they will set up traps for individuals to unknowingly download this information and then track you and prosecute and raid you and take your guns and take your gun rights. Here we go again with this nonsense. Evan Nappen 03:17 Then we have A4976. (https://www.njleg.state.nj.us/bill-search/2024/A4976) This bill is particularly horrendous and problematic. It actually creates a danger to public health, safety and welfare. It actually makes it more dangerous. This is a gun bill that they are putting forward going at the “reckless discharge of firearms”. What it does is it makes it a crime if you accidentally fire your gun. And it is really bad. Let me show you why this bill creates a danger. What the bill first does in terms of oppression is it makes discharge in a structure, which means any building, room, ship, vessel, car, vehicle or airplane or any place adapted for overnight accommodation of persons or for carrying on a business. Evan Nappen 04:29 Now, a person commits a disorderly person’s offense, but don’t be fooled by this. This is sneaky garbage. Sneaky, gun rights oppression. Because, first of all, making it an offense at all is bad. A disorderly person’s offense carries up to six months in the county jail. It is not a felony at a disorderly person’s level. However, hang on, folks, because I’m not done. It then says, if you have a firearm go off with live ammunition, unlawfully or without lawful purpose. Unlawfully or without unlawful purpose. The so-called “reckless discharge” that occurs unlawfully or without lawful purpose. And if you get a second conviction, it’s a crime of the fourth degree, which carries up to a year and a half in State Prison. And if you get a subsequent or third conviction, that’s a crime of the third degree. That is up to five years in State Prison. Evan Nappen 05:48 However, here’s the sneaky BS that they added to the bill. It says, a person who commits a violation of this, that I just talked about, all right? If you violate that section, shall be charged with a crime one Page – 2 – of 16 degree higher than what ordinarily would be charged if such offense or violation occurs within 100 yards of an occupied structure. A school, university or educational institution. An occupied structure, folks. So, last I heard, your home is an occupied structure. Your vehicle that’s next to your house or somebody else’s house within 100 yards is an occupied structure. You’re within that little gimmick there that bumps the disorderly person’s offense to a fourth degree, felony level offense, for even your first offense. Evan Nappen 07:02 Then it says that there’s no merger with this conviction, meaning it’s handled separately, and that there is no sentencing allowed to be consecutive. What that means is that it runs, it runs. It does run consecutive. I’m sorry. It runs consecutively, not concurrently. This means that the sentence imposed for the accidental discharge is separate from the sentence of any other sentence you may receive for anything else. They can’t be merged. Evan Nappen 07:41 So, what they’ve done now is criminalize an accident. Just think if we did this with vehicles. Every single car accident somebody had would be prosecuted as a felony. Okay? Because that’s what they’re going to do to gun owners with this. Teddy Nappen 08:00 I just have a question. Evan Nappen 08:01 Because unless your accident had a lawful purpose to your accident, good luck. If it’s a lawful purpose to your accident, then I guess it’s not an accident. They are making any discharge here that’s not for a lawful purpose, a problem. It makes it not just potentially an offense, which is still criminal, but a felony level offense. And what does this mean? How does this now endanger public safety? What, Teddy? Tell me, what? Teddy Nappen 08:39 Well, I was gonna say, like important, well, well, I know. I’m just curious because I thought you have to report accidental discharges. Evan Nappen 08:46 No, no, no, no. Exactly the opposite. There is no requirement to report accidental discharges. And what this bill does is create essentially what most of these will be felonies. That means that upon an accidental discharge, given this law, a person immediately has a Fifth Amendment right against self- incrimination – immediately. So, if a round discharges and goes through your house to somebody else’s, or who knows where, and it hits somebody. Normally, a person might want to find out if a person is injured and might want to call the police and report it. But now you have a Fifth Amendment right against incriminating yourself. So, this bill is actually going to endanger the public more. By having this Fifth Amendment right immediately on this being a crime, then you’re not required to report yourself. You’re not required to incriminate yourself. So, if somebody is injured and maybe needs help, you’re not required, because you have a Fifth Amendment right to not incriminate yourself. So, this bill is probably Page – 3 – of 16 going to have the reverse effect, and it is stupid. Accidents are accidents. Criminalizing accidents in this manner will have the opposite effect of what they’re trying to do and make it so that instead of proper procedures in which individuals can investigate and make it known about what happened, this will absolutely, completely discourage that. It’s as stupid as stupid gets. All in the name of oppressing gun owners. Because if you get charged with this, you’re going to lose your gun rights. First of all, being a convicted felon will automatically ruin your gun rights. But even if it remains at the disorderly person stage, at that lower offense, they still will use it to take away your firearm license. Evan Nappen 11:10 Then we have A1389. (https://www.njleg.state.nj.us/bill-search/2024/A1389) This bill requires confiscation of ammunition and firearm components on a domestic violence restraining order. So, we already have the domestic violence laws in place where restraining orders are issued, and they’re issued ex parte. Just on the word of one person, who can be a liar. It doesn’t matter. And guns are seized. Now they’re going to seize ammunition, and they’re going to seize even components, whatever that means; parts, whatever; scopes. I don’t know. Who knows how far they’ll go with it. So, they’re going to basically try to take all your property that has anything to do with firearms. Evan Nappen 11:56 A5345 mandates the use of Merchant Category Codes. (https://www.njleg.state.nj.us/bill- search/2024/A5345) You know, the gun rights folks have been fighting this merchant code that a lot of the credit card companies were doing so they can track gun purchases. There’s federal laws and other things pending to try to end doing this practice so that individuals are not having firearm purchases registered de facto, and here New Jersey is going to require it for anything along those lines. It’s basically Government sanctioned snooping so that they can further be Big Brother and further oppress our gun rights. Evan Nappen 12:47 And then finally, we have A4981, which is the bill we’ve discussed before. (https://www.njleg.state.nj.us/bill-search/2024/A4981) That’s the Gun Owner Gulag bill. It now makes the Gun Owner Gulag, which is already a nightmare for gun owners, so that imprisonment before trial, where you’re convicted of nothing, and we’re trying to get you out, because New Jersey got rid of bail, they can basically hold you for an unlimited amount of time. Because the state is allowed to ask for more time until they get the firearm report, the operability report or their expert report over the gun. Those reports can take six months, sometimes longer, to get. I mean, it’s ridiculous. So, they’re just going to hold you. And, of course, if you have an accidental discharge, and they charge you with an accidental discharge, then they’re going to hold you in jail till they get the gun report. You’re not even proven guilty of anything. Evan Nappen 13:47 It’s just a combination of absolute oppression, and we need to fight these bills. Unfortunately, in New Jersey, we have quite an uphill battle. Please make sure you join the Association and make sure your voice is heard. These things, of course, will be challenged in the courts, but, of course, that’s a slow process. Meanwhile, good people are going to suffer, and it has nothing to do with crime. Nothing to do with crime. It has to do with an agenda. An agenda to attack you and me. To go after the law-abiding Page – 4 – of 16 and turn them into criminals and disenfranchise them and us of our rights. This is the game that New Jersey plays. So, be aware. Know the law. It’s the best way to protect yourself. The fight is still on, but it is just a nasty bunch of bills there, put forward by folks that have an agenda of hatred to you and me. Teddy Nappen 14:55 Well, I just wanted to go back to the digital instructions for a moment. Because I’m just thinking, like, that’s very broad in their language for digital instructions. I mean, I can think of a variety of things. For instance, like an audio book that actually breaks down if someone’s reading like Carbine Williams and explaining how to assemble a gun from like, scratch. Evan Nappen 15:19 Hey, who knows? There’s a lot of First Amendment issues in that. But yeah, New Jersey always makes the law broad. They never make it narrow. They make it as broad as possible to have a biggest sweep as possible. And you’re right. Who knows? Does it include those things? I don’t know. How about videos? Is a video, a digital instruction? I don’t know. Teddy Nappen 15:43 Going a step further. What about video games where you build the firearm on there? Is that a digital instruction? Evan Nappen 15:51 Who knows? Who knows? I’m sure they’ll try to include everything under the sun, because in New Jersey, their gun rights oppression knows no bounds. Now, on some other news, and it’s actually good news. In New Jersey rarely do we ever see good news. But we have some good news federally that is going to potentially dramatically impact New Jersey, and this is an avenue where New Jersey can actually regain rights and help end gun rights oppression. And this is the Constitutional Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act. (https://www.gunowners.org/na032625/#:~:text=This%20GOA%2Dbacked%20nationwide%20carry,if% 20it%20reaches%20his%20desk.) Evan Nappen 16:30 This is very exciting because the House Judiciary Committee. This is now in the Federal government. Chaired by Jim Jordan, the great Jim Jordan. The House Judiciary Committee just voted to advance Richard Hudson, the legislator, Hudson’s Constitutional Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act for a full floor vote on the house. This is a nationwide carry bill that protects Constitutional carry. So, what it means is, not only if you’re a permit holder, but this is if you come from a Constitutional carry state where you can carry with no permission slip, no carry permit, you’ll be able to carry in every other state. That’s right. If you are simply a resident of a state where you are lawfully allowed to carry with no permit, that’s what we call Constitutional carry, you’ll be able to carry in every other state. This means that residents of Constitutional carry states will be able to carry in New Jersey with no permit. And that’s fantastic! Evan Nappen 17:52 Because even if you’re a New Jersey resident, the fact that so many others will be able to carry with constitutional carry, it will impact our ability to get Constitutional carry in New Jersey. The restrictions Page – 5 – of 16 that they place on New Jersey citizens will be essentially mooted out by this amazing federal law. So, let’s hope that Congress gets it passed. It’s exciting that it has been voted out of committee. Republicans do control both houses. Of course, they’d have to beat the filibuster rule in the Senate. But who knows. We have a lot going for us, including the Supreme Court case of Bruen, which established as a Constitutional right, our ability to have a firearm for self-defense outside the home. So, at least we’re making progress on that issue. Evan Nappen 18:54 I also want to announce about the Knife Owners’ Protection Act (H.R. 60) another federal bill that was just marked up in the house. (https://kniferights.org/legislative-update/knife-owners-protection-act- marked-up-in-house/) And again, it’s been marked up in the Judiciary Committee with a 13 to 10 vote, and it’s now going to be voted on as well in the house. And what the Knife Owners’ Protection Act does is it protects knives the way the Gun Owner Protection Act protects guns. So, you’ll be able to take your knives and drive through bad states with knife prohibitions. Remember, knives are protected by the Second Amendment as well. It’s not the right to keep and bear guns. It’s the right to keep and bear arms, and this bill will allow knife transport safely. When secured, you can go through the bad states with your knives and not worry about some idiotic knife laws that a bad state has. So, this is really good. It’s called KOPA. K, O, P, A. The Firearm Owner Protection Act that has protected gun owners for years is FOPA. This is KOPA. KOPA is now coming up for a vote in the House and that’s a great thing. Evan Nappen 20:10 I also want to mention to you what is called the Traveler’s Gun Rights Act. (https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/travelers-gun-rights-act-for-active-duty-military-and-rv-ers/) This is a federal law that’s been put forward by Representative Dusty Johnson. It’s been reintroduced, and this will protect the gun rights, firearm rights, of folks without a permanent address, such as many active- duty military personnel and those who live and travel in an RV. Because, as many of you know, in order to buy a firearm now, you have to have a state of residence. Particularly if you’re buying a handgun, it has to be done in your state of residence. Well, folks without a permanent residence end up not being able to buy guns. This bill will allow individuals to buy guns that do not have a permanent residence. This will also make it so that they’d be able to purchase anywhere in the United States, which helps pave the way to get rid of the restrictions on having to purchase within a State. It’s going forward to helping to eventually end the restriction on where you can buy a handgun or a firearm for everybody else as a matter of fact. So, this is good, and it’s great to see these bills advancing federally, now that Republicans are in control federally, and we have President Trump that has absolutely promised to sign the pro- Second Amendment rights bills that go forward and fight the gun rights oppression that we’ve been dealing with for years. Evan Nappen 21:58 Hey, let me tell you about our good friends at WeShoot. WeShoot is an indoor range in Lakewood, New Jersey. They also have a great pro shop, and they have some really cool guns that they are offering for sale. They have a CANik METE SFX Signature Series, and this is a really cool gun. The Signature Series is a nine millimeter. It technically could hold 18 plus one, but it has the 10 round mag for New Jersey. It has Warren Tactical sites, green fiber optic, enhanced flat face trigger for a crisp pull. It’s got Page – 6 – of 16 a great ergonomic design, and it has custom SKETCH engraving. And it has Canik’s great reputation behind it. They also have a Smith & Wesson M&P 2.0 in one of my favorite calibers, 10 millimeter. I own a 10 millimeter M&P. It’s a great gun, and WeShoot has them. This is a Performance Center version. So, their Performance Center version of the Smith M&P 2.0 10 millimeter. It takes it to another level. It has a 5.6 inch ported barrel. It has that crisp Performance Center flat-face trigger, and its optics ready. And it is great. Ten millimeters, great. It has a 15 plus one capacity, but 10 rounds for New Jersey, of course. And it is a great gun. Ten millimeter is very powerful, essentially that of a 41 Magnum. It’s one of the most popular handguns in bear country to carry. Evan Nappen 23:51 WeShoot also has the TROY Carbine “Other”. They have the Troy Other for sale. That’s a very popular gun that is non-NFA, and it is New Jersey legal. It’s offered in black and bronze. So, check out that gun. It comes with the M-LOC handguard and attachments for superior handling. So, check it out at WeShoot. You’ll love it. I know you will. Great guns at WeShoot. Plus, they have a great range, and they have great training. They are a great resource right there in Lakewood, easily off the Parkway. Check out WeShoot at weshootusa.com. weshootusa.com. For more information on their website. Evan Nappen 24:47 Now we have Teddy that’s going to do Press Checks. Because, as you know, Press Checks are free. Teddy, tell us what you have for us today. Teddy Nappen 24:57 Oh. A little bit as all the both the highs and lows of the news of what you described in the last couple minutes. But one of the things that kind of, I don’t know, if people in the firearms industry and people have kind of been hearing about. All the repeated attacks on Sig Sauer with their P320. However, just a couple weeks ago, SIG, on their website, actually put it out that there was the Officer Elvis Berrios. He was the one who was suing SIG, saying that the P320 was able to discharge without pulling a trigger. He voluntarily dismissed his case and admitted to the court in documents that the pistol has no defects and does not discharge without pulling the trigger. (https://www.sigsauer.com/blog/case-dismissed- police-officer-admits-his-sig-sauer-p320-pistol-cannot-discharge-without-a-trigger-pull) Wow, that is one heck of an outcome. Evan Nappen 25:55 Considering all the memes and publicity and everything about SIG and all. Now, at some point, they did have an issue over the drop, but they fixed the issue. Teddy Nappen 26:05 Yeah, it was in 2017 that they had a voluntary upgrade for it where, you know, that was the meme going around of drop the gun, except if it’s a P320. That was the running gag in 2017. But they’ve very much fixed the issues. And they stand behind their pistol, which is fine. But one thing that kind of struck my mind is thinking like, what were some bad pistol designs that kind of were in play, that people were kind of talking about, like, looking throughout. Page – 7 – of 16 Evan Nappen 26:35 There have been a number of them. Teddy Nappen 26:37 Oh, yeah, a number of them Evan Nappen 26:38 Now SIG, of course, has addressed their issues. So, I want to make that clear. Teddy Nappen 26:43 Yeah. Evan Nappen 26:44 They have addressed the issues, but there have been definitely. What guns were you thinking about in the past that are? Teddy Nappen 26:52 The first one, well, it’s just basically me thinking about all the times we went to gun shows and walking around. Evan Nappen 26:58 Oh yeah. We’ve had a lot of good times, haven’t we? Teddy Nappen 27:01 Oh, yeah. And one that always caught my eye, that I always thought looked hilarious, was the Gyrojet pistol, or the rock. Evan Nappen 27:08 You know, you’ve seen mine that I own. Of course, I own a Gyrojet because it’s too weird not to. Teddy Nappen 27:22 It was actually designed by Robert Mainhardt and Arthur Biehl. The idea, and it was described, was the to shrink a bazooka down to pistol form, as opposed to, I know, right? It’s like who’s firing a bazooka and says, hey, I want that smaller. Evan Nappen 27:39 It’s actually a rocket pistol. So, the round that it fires is like firing, I guess Elon would like a giant, right? Because it fires a rocket. It’s a rocket round that, by the way, the hammer hits the front of the cartridge. Teddy Nappen 27:57 Yeah. Page – 8 – of 16 Evan Nappen 27:58 It actually slams the front and then that makes it go backwards. Then it fires out the Gyrojet with rocket propulsion, resetting the hammer. But they’re notoriously inaccurate, by the way. Teddy Nappen 28:15 Yes. So, there’s a few problems with that. One, as opposed to bullets, it’s using rocket rounds that travel faster. Evan Nappen 28:22 By the way, those individual rounds are very valuable. Just having the ammo is collectible and expensive. Teddy Nappen 28:29 To give you a perspective, when you fire the pistol, the round is traveling in the first 60 feet. It’s about going 100 feet per second. Evan Nappen 28:38 Only a 100 feet per second? Teddy Nappen 28:40 If you fired a nine millimeter, that goes 1200 feet per second. Evan Nappen 28:45 But I think it gains speed, though, with its rocket propulsion. Teddy Nappen 28:49 Yeah, but that’s you’re shooting up beyond the 600 feet, like you’re shooting Evan Nappen 28:54 A Daisy BB gun gets 300 feet per second out the muzzle. Teddy Nappen 29:00 Yeah? So, it’s not exactly the best design. When you were shooting at a 100 yard target, it was 50/50 that it hits it. It’s one of those that was not well marketed, not well designed. Although it was featured in You Only Live Twice, used by the Japanese spy master, Tiger. Evan Nappen 29:20 Ha, ha. Teddy Nappen 29:20 Yeah. Page – 9 – of 16 Evan Nappen 29:21 So, I have one new in the box, just because it’s so weird. But it does look cool. I give it a high grade for it definitely has a cool look to it. It was innovative, but it just didn’t make it, man. It just didn’t. Evan Nappen 29:37 Oh my God. That’s the one they set up our soldiers with when they would surrender. That gun will fire by pushing the bar on the outside of the gun. You can actually make it shoot without pulling the trigger. It is ridiculously dangerous. Teddy Nappen 29:37 Yeah, and this is all from the National Interest. From what I was reading about the gyro jet, they had a very nice breakdown. It was kind of interesting reading through. The next one was out of Armory Life. They talk about everyone’s favorite, the most deadly pistol out of World War II, the Type 94 Nambu pistol. (https://www.thearmorylife.com/japanese-type-94-nambu/) Teddy Nappen 30:12 Yeah, it’s also. Evan Nappen 30:13 A suicide gun, man. Crazy. Teddy Nappen 30:16 Yeah. And the design it was named. The real name was a 94 Shiki Kenju, and it was designed by (Kijiro)Nambu. Let’s just say it developed a very deadly reputation with that essentially, like. Evan Nappen 30:29 Well, what would happen is that they would get the Japanese to surrender, and they make believe they were surrendering. They’d hold their handgun out like they’re giving it to the soldier, you know, to the U.S. soldier, like they’re surrendering. Then they could fire it by pushing the bar without their hand or finger on the trigger. So, they could fake out a surrender. And they actually used it that way. Teddy Nappen 30:56 Yeah. And also the fact that the magazine was extremely tight. So, you’d have to, like, it would require, a screwdriver trying to pry it. Evan Nappen 31:04 It is one lousy design, that is for damn sure. And I don’t know how a country that makes some of the finest sword blades ever made would make a gun that sucky, but they did. Teddy Nappen 31:15 Yeah, but it wasn’t really. It was just one of those that’s very infamous. Here’s the one that I don’t think people realize, or it’s what I would describe as the Lottie of 45. The High Point. Page – 10 – of 16 Evan Nappen 31:27 What do you mean a Lada? What’s a Lada? What’s a Lada? Teddy Nappen 31:30 It runs. That car, the Russian car. Evan Nappen 31:33 The crappy Russian car. Basically, the best thing you can say about is that it runs. Teddy Nappen 31:39 Yeah, the Lada. Evan Nappen 31:40 I think we knew a guy that had a Lada, didn’t we? Teddy Nappen 31:43 Well, when I went to Bosnia, they had those Ladas all over. Evan Nappen 31:47 Oh, man, yeah. But what gun do you think is the Lada? Teddy Nappen 31:51 The High Point JHP 45. Evan Nappen 31:55 Oh, their handgun. I have one of them, too, as you’ve seen. That is the heaviest, clunkiest pistol. And look, if you run out of ammo, just throw the gun at them. I mean, you can use it as a really amazing club. Teddy Nappen 32:08 There was a pretty good review from Pew Pew Tactical, where his description was cheap and ugly. It is something you. Evan Nappen 32:18 They do have excellent customer service from what I hear. Teddy Nappen 32:21 Yeah, yeah. Evan Nappen 32:22 And, oh man, that gun is just. Teddy Nappen 32:24 What? Page – 11 – of 16 Evan Nappen 32:25 And I don’t know how you’d carry that thing. It just. Teddy Nappen 32:27 You can’t, at least. Evan Nappen 32:28 You may as well just carry a Desert Eagle if you’re gonna carry that thing. It’s so heavy. Teddy Nappen 32:33 Yeah. It’s incredibly hard to disassemble and make repairs, and Evan Nappen 32:38 The trigger is so squishy. Oh, man, it’s. Teddy Nappen 32:42 In a word, in the words, it runs. And you could. Actually it’s very good at eating very cheap ammunition. Evan Nappen 32:48 Well, at least it shoots. And look, people that, you know, have a low budget. Hey, at least you can actually have something that goes bang, right? Teddy Nappen 32:55 I know, but you’re going to feel a little embarrassed on the range if you’re using it. Another one from the Forgotten Weapons site is the Colt M13 Aircrewmen. (https://www.forgottenweapons.com/colt-m13- aircrewman-revolver-so-light-it-was-unsafe/) Evan Nappen 32:55 No, no, the Smith and Wesson. Evan Nappen 33:04 Well, there’s two. They have the Smith & Wesson, too. Evan Nappen 33:12 The Colt and the Smith. I have one of the Smiths, a very rare aircrewmen. They were air weight, you know, to save weight. But, unfortunately, they couldn’t handle the .38 loads. The higher powered .38 loads. Teddy Nappen 33:30 So, it was designed with the aluminum cylinder where they were supposed to use these low pressure 38 special ammunition. Except anyone there would just use the standard ammunition, and it would have a tendency to either explode or have the cylinder just crack in half because it couldn’t handle the standard loads. Page – 12 – of 16 Evan Nappen 33:49 See now, the modern Smith and Wesson airway guns, their cylinders are steel or other very, very strong alloys. But this was, you know, made out of essentially, aluminum, even in the cylinder, and it just wasn’t a great idea, because it couldn’t take the pressure. But they’re very collectible because most of them were destroyed by the Government over this. So, those that survived. Teddy Nappen 34:16 There’s currently only about 1189 there. Evan Nappen 34:22 That’s pretty good. Teddy Nappen 34:23 That’s the ones that are declared so and that was from ForgottenWeapons.com. And this one I think a lot of people know, from the 1945 site, the Colt 2000. Evan Nappen 34:36 Oh, God. The Colt 2000. Okay, I purposely bought a Colt 2000 because it was so bad. I found one new in the box. That gun has the worst trigger pull of any gun ever. Basically, you pull the trigger and a year later, you’ll get to the back to find. Teddy Nappen 34:59 It requires the 2000 poundage to actually pull the trigger. Evan Nappen 35:02 Yeah, it is insane. I think they developed it because they wanted to hit the law enforcement market where it would have to be so determinative that you pulled the trigger that there could be no dispute. But it makes it extremely hard to shoot it accurately, and it’s just a beast. Teddy Nappen 35:21 Oh, so it’s actually, it’s very. Evan Nappen 35:23 That gun sucks. Teddy Nappen 35:25 Which is very ironic, because the guy that designed, Eugene Stoner, the inventor of the AR 15. Evan Nappen 35:30 Which is really shocking, considering that he made that it was Stoner that did it. Page – 13 – of 16 Teddy Nappen 35:34 With Reed Knight Junior, another famous gun designer. They both made this gun that just and by the way, it had trouble cycling the mag, and if you dropped it, it would go off. And that was. Evan Nappen 35:45 Other than that. It sounds like a great design for the Colt. Well, like I said, I bought one just because it’s that bad. I had to, I have to. Teddy, you know, I have to own these dogs. Teddy Nappen 35:56 Which is very. Teddy Nappen 35:56 Of course. Evan Nappen 35:56 Because they’re just amazing. But hey, you progress, and then you end up with really great guns when you learn, hopefully learn, from your mistakes. Hey, this is definitely fun and interesting. But if you’ve ever shot a Colt 2000, I think you know what I’m talking about. Oh, my God. You can’t believe Colt put their name on it, even though it was created by such great designers. I think the problem was their goals were to hit a law enforcement market and really focus on a lot of the liability issues, but in so doing, it sacrificed so much of what makes a firearm. Evan Nappen 36:06 Self-defense, it’s operability. Teddy Nappen 36:36 Which is pretty bad, because if you have the trigger pull that hard, that’s how, like the dueling pistols that were used, that there were trick pistols that Hamilton used. It was the idea of having that crazy poundage on it, so you could essentially makes it harder to shoot. Evan Nappen 37:01 I have one of those. I have this set of the Hamilton Burr dueling pistols. The exact reproductions that Uberti made in 1976 that had the secret trigger. That is why Hamilton was a cheat and a fraud. They make it out that oh, he fired into the ground. No, he had gimmick pistols that created a hair trigger, and he was too much of a dumb ass. So, he set the gun off. It went off because he wasn’t used to it, and Burr still hit him with that enormously heavy trigger because he didn’t know that it was gaffed and rigged to cheat. Burr still took out Hamilton with that dueling pistol. So, at least as a Vice President, you got to give him credit for dueling successfully when it was a cheater that he was going against. Teddy Nappen 37:55 Well, it’s also. Page – 14 – of 16 Evan Nappen 37:55 If you want to read more about that, you can go look at the Smithsonian Magazine, because it was Uberti, when they were making the reproduction, that they discovered this historical secret about the Hamilton / Burr dueling pistols. And by the way, Hamilton borrowed those guns. He had his own dueling pistols. He didn’t use his own. He borrowed these because they were gaffed. They were agimmick. Teddy Nappen 38:02 Well. Evan Nappen 38:04 And they were the cheater pistols. Teddy Nappen 38:20 Well, they were the ones that actually his son used and was killed with. And he. Evan Nappen 38:24 I know, and then he did it again with him. So, he doesn’t even learn from his mistakes. And on top of that, it is really a rewrite of history, the myth of Hamilton being some martyr. You know? It’s a load of garbage. The gun itself shows what Hamilton was up to, cheating. That’s what he was, a cheat. Evan Nappen 38:47 Hey, we’ve got a letter here from Tony and Ask Evan. Tony says, since New Jersey is now issuing concealed carry permits via a document, meaning electronically, of course, is it legal to laminate the permit? So, you can laminate your permit. You just have to have a physical permit. I suggest having it physical because of the Duty to Disclose where you have to show your permit. If you have it on your phone, even though it may have been sent to you electronically, and you show your phone, your phone is going to be taken by the officer. And you don’t want to lose control of your phone, of course. Your best bet is having an actual permit, but if it’s laminated or that. It’s not an issue. There’s no law prohibiting that. Evan Nappen 39:33 Now, let me tell you about our favorite segment of the show, although your Press Checks are great, Teddy. But this is one that everyone loves, and that is the GOFU, which is a Gun Owner Fuck Up. This is where expensive lessons get learned by others. You get to learn for free. And let me tell you about this GOFU, I see it happen a lot. When you are asked by your doctor about guns or asked about your mental condition, I don’t know if you’ve gone to the doctor, and they give you that little iPad to answer the questions. Do you feel anxiety? Do you feel depression? You know anything about that. Evan Nappen 40:21 Now, look, if you’ve got problems, you need to address them. I get it. I’m not telling you not to. But what I do want to warn you about is that any of that stuff ends up potentially affecting your gun rights. If the information is out about it, it goes to the question, have you ever been treated or observed for any mental condition? You’re now reporting this voluntarily to your doctor, and you’re setting yourself up for a problem. Like I said, if you need help, you’ve got to get help. I get it. But keep in mind, if you’re just Page – 15 – of 16 having a little bit of stress or anxiety, do you really want a record of that? You better make that choice and least know that when you write this stuff down, when you make a record of it, it can come back and bite you in the ass. We get clients where that very thing has happened. Evan Nappen 41:08 Also, when they ask about the guns that you have? They can go pound sand. What do doctors know about guns? They have no reason to know whether you have guns or don’t have guns. This is a problem. If you think you have medical privacy, you don’t. Okay? You don’t. We’ve fought many licensing cases, many cases medical privacy. That’s a joke. When they can use it against your gun rights, you better know it. And if you end up revealing all kinds of things that you had no reason to have to say, you’re opening yourself up for a GOFU. I’ve seen it. I want you to keep that in mind. Be aware of that. It’s arguably a trap. Evan Nappen 41:52 This is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens. Speaker 2 42:01 Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state. Page – 16 – of 16 Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S3 E231_Transcrip About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets. Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News. As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists. He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America. 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Episode 230-Trump: Promises Kept Also Available OnSearchable Podcast TranscriptGun Lawyer– Episode 230 Gun Lawyer Transcript – Episode 230 SUMMARY KEYWORDS President Trump, federal relief, felons, gun rights, ATF, Department of Justice, Second Amendment, expungement, Charles Schumer, anti-gun propaganda, tariffs, firearm imports, manufacturing, road rage, gun laws. SPEAKERS Teddy Nappen, Evan Nappen, Speaker 2 EvanNappen 00:15 I’m Evan Nappen. Teddy Nappen 00:17 And I’m Teddy Nappen. EvanNappen 00:19 and welcome to Gun Lawyer. So, President Trump has delivered, and it is part of the promises made. He just started the ball and actually went ahead with something that I’ve been waiting 33 years to see happen in the world of gun law. And what Trump has done through his administration is brilliant. I’m going to explain to you how brilliant this is. He has got back and running the Federal Relief from Disabilities Program. This is fantastic news, my friends. You see, federal law, as I’m sure most of you know, bars felons from having guns. It is a firearm disqualifier. Federal law has barred convicted felons from having guns. Yet, in the federal law, in that Title 18, there is a provision where individuals who had felony convictions could get relief from that disability by filing an application with the ATF, who then processes it. If they granted it, you were granted relief from the disqualifying, and your gun rights would be restored, as far as the federal government was concerned. EvanNappen 02:06 Now, recently, as we talked about on a show, this was brought to light, if you remember, with Mel Gibson, who wanted his gun rights restored. There are plenty of other folks who want them restored, too, and it brought the issue to light. And as you may recall, I was commenting and I said, look, you know, they’re trying to work it through the Attorney General’s office, but this hasn’t been funded since 1992 due to (Senator) Charles Schumer. And I said, they really need to fix the Relief from Disabilities Program and make it available again. And, of course, you have the institutionalized racism issue of the disproportionate number of felons who are minorities. This law would provide the avenue for people who are good people, who had, you know, made their mistake way back, paid the price, paid the debt to society, as they like to say, and now want to regain their Constitutional rights. But had no opportunity to do so. This was particularly evil because you were preventing people from not only being able to protect themselves and then use the most effective means of self-defense, a firearm. But it also denied Page – 1 – of 12 jobs, good jobs, at a disproportionate ratio. Jobs such as law enforcement work, military, security. All these things where a firearm is part of the job. EvanNappen 03:41 So, this has now changed, and it is so exciting. Because what President Trump did was figure out, in a chess game here, how to overcome this. So, what President Trump did is just great and brilliant. Let me give you a little bit of the history of how this has been a problem and the brilliance about how Trump and his administration have now changed it. You see the Relief from Disabilities Program was good, and it was able to help people. Just like in New Jersey, there’s a thing called expungement. There’s no such thing, though, as a federal expungement. The only way you could get your gun rights back under the federal law, especially if you had a federal conviction or a federal disqualifier, was by way of the Relief from Disabilities law. I used to do these for folks. Prior to 1992, we would do these Relief from Disabilities and help folks regain their rights. EvanNappen 04:50 Then along comes Josh Sugarman promoting his book NRA: Money, Firepower and Fear. (National Rifle Association: Money, Firepower & Fear) Basically as his promotion of the book, he went and hammered on the Relief from Disabilities, saying, NRA wants felons to have guns. You can’t have all these felons having guns, you see. And, of course, that was just their anti-gun propaganda move to oppress Second Amendment rights. We’re talking about people who have been fully rehabilitated, who have not had any other problems, who are not a danger or a threat, who are now good, productive citizens that want their damn rights back. But you know, the politics took over and (Senator) Charles Schumer and company. Teddy Nappen 05:41 If I recall, didn’t you actually meet Sugarman, too? EvanNappen 05:43 Oh yeah, I’ll tell you that. But, yeah, but, yeah. But what happened was. So, what (Senator) Schumer did was he put forward, in an appropriations bill, you know, that fund the government, that that section of the law, that the ATF could no longer use the funds to process these (Relief from Disabilities) applications. That’s how they did it. They stopped the ATF from using one dime, even. No money. They were not allowed to use any money to process Relief from Disabilities applications. And ever since that was done back since 1992, you no longer could get your rights restored. Thirty-three years of people being denied their Second Amendment rights. They could have had them restored but were barred by this action by (Senator) Schumer. It even went through the courts. The U.S. Supreme Court eventually said, look, if it’s not funded, then too bad. There’s nothing else you can do about it. You can’t just go to the courts because ATF won’t process your application. That’s how it’s been since 1992. EvanNappen 07:09 And what Trump did, what President Trump did, is just brilliant. He put forward a new regulation in the form, at the moment, of interim rule, and what this does is going to end up being a final rule. It completely takes away the ATF power to do these applications, to actually rule on these applications. Because the law, under Title 18, made it so that it was in the power of the Attorney General. Then by Page – 2 – of 12 regulation, it went to the ATF, simply by reg. The Attorney General really has the power under this statute and can, with administrative regulation, not needing Congressional approval or any new law passed, can take that away by way of a new regulation. So, that’s what they’re doing. They’re saying the ATF no longer can process these applications. Now, of course, ATF was barred from processing them prior because they weren’t funded, and because they weren’t funded, ATF could not do anything. (https://thereload.com/trump-administration-moves-to-revive-process-for-restoring-some-convicts-gun- rights/) EvanNappen 08:42 But now what Trump and his administration is doing is passing a rule that says ATF doesn’t handle these anymore. The Department of Justice will handle them, and the Department of Justice is not restricted in expending monies to process these applications. So, by Trump playing 3D chess, they beat the Schumer amendment. These relief applications, after 33 years, can now proceed. Not only is President Trump doing that, but they are going to be streamlining the process. They are going to be putting together even more regulation to streamline it, to make it more effective and simpler to do. So that these things can happen and happen better than they did 33 years ago. President Trump is delivering on his promises. This is going to help thousands, probably millions of people. No exaggeration. If they want their rights back, this is just great. EvanNappen 10:10 And what it took was a great president like President Trump, who truly believes and loves the Second Amendment to do this. Because I’m going to tell you, folks, it takes balls to do this. You want to know why? Because it was the lack of balls that allowed this to get defunded in the first place, because of the propaganda. Oh, felons. You want felons to have guns. Yeah! And the politicians at the time, even though (Senator) Schumer put it forward, they folded like a cheap suit and went along with it. Even Republicans went along with it. We needed somebody with the guts to say the truth and to change this so that it’s good people getting their rights restored. Who deserve it, who meet the criteria, who are not a danger, and you know what? All it took was a president who’s a felon himself, just to show you how much garbage there is in the system when it comes to being “a convicted felon.” Teddy Nappen 11:27 I’d be kind of curious about, kind of looking at the history of it. When did that become a thing? Where, once you serve your time, you are forever a second class citizen? EvanNappen 11:37 Well, Teddy, that’s a good question. I’ll tell you. It originally was only violent felons. Going way back where even, you know, in common law that you could say a violent felon could have their rights taken away. But what happened was it evolved to not just violent felons, but any felon. Then it evolved further into domestic violence misdemeanors. For the first time in the history, a misdemeanor conviction became a firearm disqualifier if it was involving domestic violence. And that’s what Mel Gibson lost his gun rights about. And the thing Trump has done now will allow Gibson to get his rights restored, even with a misdemeanor. Page – 3 – of 12 EvanNappen 12:30 You know, the funny thing is, there are, for example, I believe in Montana, they have a law that says, once you serve your time, all your rights are automatically restored, because they have a Western attitude. You know, the West, where sometimes good guys become bad guys. And sometimes bad guys become good guys. But when you serve your time, your rights are all restored. You don’t stay a second class citizen. But that’s not how it is under the federal law. The federal law has the prohibition on felons, and the way to get rights relieved has not been possible for 33 years. Now, with President Trump, it will again be available. Look, if anyone out there has a friend or knows anyone who has a federal felony conviction or other disqualifier, I’ll be able to help them. As an attorney, I’ll be able to get your rights restored now, and you can again exercise your Second Amendment rights. It is a great day. I am just thrilled that President Trump has taken this action, and I know this is just the beginning of what he’s going to do. It’s really just the start. EvanNappen 13:51 Of course, when you want to enjoy exercising your Second Amendment rights, there is no place better to do it than WeShoot. WeShoot is an indoor range in Lakewood, easily accessible from the Parkway. It is the range where I shoot, where Teddy shoots, and you will love to shoot there, as well. They’ve got tremendous things going on, including the concealed carry class, specifically for New Jersey. They have a CCARE course that they are going to be presenting and making available to you. I believe it’s the 29th of March. You can sign up and get your CCARE certification so that you can get your New Jersey Permit to Carry. They have a fantastic range and all kinds of great training programs. Great deals on guns. They’re full service, my friends and you’ll love them. Go to weshootusa.com and check out their website. Beautiful photography. They are absolutely dedicated to our Second Amendment rights and to your personal Second Amendment rights and your ability to exercise those rights safely and responsibly. You’ll be able to qualify to get all the necessary licenses and permits that you desire. So, go to weshootusa.com. EvanNappen 15:28 I also want to mention our good friends of the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. They are the umbrella organization for gun rights in New Jersey. They have clubs, all the gun clubs, ranges, etc., that belong to give an umbrella organization uniting our Sportsman’s clubs, gun clubs, ranges, etc. But they also have individual memberships. They also have a beautiful range in Cherry Ridge, and they are running matches there. And they have just, it’s gorgeous. If you ever been to the Cherry Ridge outdoor range up there, you’re shooting to the side of that mountain. Oh, it’s so nice. EvanNappen 16:17 They are the folks that are there on the front lines defending our gun rights. They have a full-time paid lobbyist in Trenton, and they have the litigation going on in the federal courts as we speak, fighting for our rights. They are the number one gun rights group in New Jersey, and they’re the NRA affiliate. You need to be a member. You really want to be a member. You’re going to get the email alerts. And right now, they’re sending out an alert very shortly. We’re dealing with legislative issues as we speak. We’ve spoken about it on the show, and there’s more updates that they’re sending out. So, make sure you’ve got your membership. Just go to anjrpc.org, and they send you the alert. And it’s real easy so that your voice can be heard. What you need to do is right there. We’ve got to fight these things. It’s a whole Page – 4 – of 12 other onslaught of Murphy bojikas coming down the pike. Watch out, folks. Bad news. You need to be a member of our state association to help fight the Second Amendment oppressionists. EvanNappen 17:32 And the other thing that you’ll find very helpful is my book, New Jersey Gun Law. It is the Bible of New Jersey gun law. It’s over 500 pages. It’s 120 topics, all in a question and answer format. Easy to understand. It’s a book everybody uses, from the state police firearms division, all kinds of lawyers, police, judges, but most importantly, 1000s and 1000s of gun owners in New Jersey rely on it. It was my labor of love, folks. And when you get the book, scan the QR code on the cover. Right there. The QR on the cover, and you can immediately go to my free subscriber base. It’s private. And immediately download the 2025 Comprehensive Update, fully updating everything that needed to be updated in the book so it stays current. You’ll get email alerts from me if there’s any changes. So, make sure you get the book. Go to EvaNnappen.com, EvanNappen.com, and get your copy of the gun law Bible, New Jersey Gun Law today. EvanNappen 18:40 Now we have Teddy, who has a really fascinating subject on his Press Check segment. Go right ahead, Teddy. Tell me what you’ve been researching today. Teddy Nappen 18:55 Well, as we know, Press Checks are always free. And this one, I wanted to kind of, it was a question that kind of came up. As you know, our dear President has been talking about the various tariffs. He’s going through negotiations of trade, and I believe April 1 is when the reciprocal tariffs will kick off for the entire world. And, hopefully, all the countries will, you know, bow down because we are the world economic powerhouse. But one thing that did come into play was, I was thinking, what guns are we importing into the U.S.? Like, what is our, because we have massive amounts of manufacture. I know all the gun makers in the U.S., but I was curious to see who is importing into the U.S. Teddy Nappen 19:44 So, I went to the U.S. firearms industry today, and sure enough, they had the statistics. And not of 2024 but of 2023. So, for pistols, it was kind of interesting. They had Austria, of course, with Glock. Brazil – Taurus. Germany – HK. Turkey because apparently Mossberg, Soger and Tristar. Those come in as pistols. And then Croatia – HS Product. It’s spelled weird, but those were kind of the top importers coming into the U.S. EvanNappen 20:27 Croatia is one of the top importers? Teddy Nappen 20:29 Of the top five, Croatia is the top handgun, handgun, specifically handgun. So, I was looking up Turkey. EvanNappen 20:38 Turkey also makes the Caniks that are very popular pistols, too. They do a lot of shotguns, too. Turkey. Page – 5 – of 12 Teddy Nappen 20:44 Yeah, I didn’t realize Mossberg was Turkey. I didn’t know that was. I didn’t realize that. Yeah, EvanNappen 20:49 But Mossberg is bringing, having. They’re in the U.S. They have. Teddy Nappen 20:54 Correct, they have Turkish and Moss. They have Mossberg in Turkey. And there’s also Stoger. EvanNappen 20:59 Y eah. Teddy Nappen 21:00 Turkey as well. And then Tristar, that’s their other one. EvanNappen 21:03 Oh, yeah. Teddy Nappen 21:04 Now for rifles, this is very interesting. Brazil, Canada, Spain. EvanNappen 21:14 Well, there you go. There’s a lot there. Yeah, Canada, I guess they have their firearm industry, well. Teddy Nappen 21:22 Well, here’s why. Because their big thing is Savage Arms, and they make, specifically, .22 rimfire rifles. And that’s the huge. That’s why they import so many of those .22s into the US. EvanNappen 21:36 Oh, so those Savages are gonna. So, these guns are going to be affected, arguably, by the tariffs, right? Unless they just make them in the U.S., which we need. We need to have our manufacturing based here. Teddy Nappen 21:48 Yeah, and the last one I thought, of course, shotguns. Turkey, of course. All the cheap shotguns there. Italy, you know, Benelli. EvanNappen 21:56 Some really nice guns come out of Italy. Oh, yeah. Oh, they’re going to be even pricier now. Teddy Nappen 22:00 Y eah. Page – 6 – of 12 EvanNappen 22:01 Until it settles out. Teddy Nappen 22:02 Yeah, Brazil for Rossi Taurus. China for their Hawk Norinco, apparently. I didn’t know Norinco did shotguns. EvanNappen 22:12 Well, I don’t know if they’re even, but I thought they were at least restricted on a lot of the firearms that can come in from China. Maybe some sporting. Teddy Nappen 22:20 I don’t know what other ones they have. EvanNappen 22:21 I know they can’t bring in SKSs anymore. They used to bring them in by the ton. They were great. Teddy Nappen 22:26 But they’re marked as like the top shotgun importer, number four. They used to be number three, but I guess a lot of their, a lot of the sanctions stopped them. And then the last one, of course, the U.K. with Purdy and all their high end shotguns. EvanNappen 22:41 Oh, they probably don’t have that many, but the ones that do come in are very valuable. Teddy Nappen 22:47 Yeah, once you get past the four, it kind of bottoms out until the numbers. So, the other thing you got to look at, I thought this was hilarious when I was looking at it. First of all, we are the number one exporter of arms. We are like. EvanNappen 23:04 We’re the number one exporter? Teddy Nappen 23:07 Yeah. In 2022, from the world popular review, we are the number one exporter. It’s like $14 billion and then Russia is like $2 billion. France is like three, and China’s two. But we are the powerhouse in terms of firearms. EvanNappen 23:24 Great. So keep it, let’s stay number one. Teddy Nappen 23:27 Yeah, so I’m not too worried about that now. Page – 7 – of 12 EvanNappen 23:29 Although Mexico isn’t too happy about that, I guess. That’s why they’re suing us over firearms. Teddy Nappen 23:34 Yeah, and the court was laughing them out of there, so. EvanNappen 23:38 Y eah. Teddy Nappen 23:39 But, oh, that was something interesting. So, Mexico, I was just checking to see what they had. They’re not even close. They don’t even crack the list. But the one thing they have. This one company, (Productos) Mendoza, and all they do is .22 rifles. Should we go on their website? (https://www.mendozafa.com/en-us) And I was like, what the heck? And they were, like, marketing, like, they sold. EvanNappen 24:02 How come our neighbor to the north and our neighbor to the south. Their number one thing is just making 22s. Teddy Nappen 24:07 I know, and we are rolling up with our gear. EvanNappen 24:10 Yeah, right. Teddy Nappen 24:14 It was really funny, too, because I was looking at their website, and they’re like, oh, yeah, we sold arms to Pancho Villa. I’m like, what? EvanNappen 24:20 Did they really? What? That’s their marketing ploy. We sold to Pancho Villa. Teddy Nappen 24:33 I was like, it was like, what, all right? I was kind of going through trying to see. So, I wanted to look and see where any firearm tariffs are. So, I actually went to the European Taxation Customs Union, and it’s very interesting. They have all these codes for arms and armaments, and there’s nothing directly on firearms that I could find for the European Union. In China, I couldn’t find, but I imagine they don’t. They probably have restrictions entirely on them, not just tariffs. So, I couldn’t find anything on them in terms of actual tariffs. What I also thought was funny was in the Latina news, Brazil, a few years back, actually removed their tariffs on handgun imports, because, remember Brazil, yeah. (https://www.latinnews.com/component/k2/item/86729-in-brief-brazil-cuts-tariffs-on-handgun-imports- taurus-bristles.html) Page – 8 – of 12 Teddy Nappen 24:33 Well, they were actually going more pro-gun in Brazil. Teddy Nappen 24:42 Y eah. EvanNappen 24:55 That’s also the land of Taurus. Teddy Nappen 25:29 Yeah, and Taurus was actually pissed. They’re actually quoting say Taurus is pissed. It was Teddy Nappen 25:37 Well, yeah. Teddy Nappen 25:38 Exactly. EvanNappen 25:39 Well, but you know, Adam Smith and The Wealth of Nations. The Wealth of Nations is the tools of capital production, right? Teddy Nappen 25:48 Y eah. EvanNappen 25:49 You’ve got to manufacture. That’s where the true wealth of a nation is. And we got to get our manufacturing back in our country. So, look, and if you want to have fair trade, sure that’s great. So, let’s make sure it’s fair. If you’re tariffing us, we’re tariffing you. And if you don’t, then we don’t. Then you have true fair trade. Teddy Nappen 26:07 On the actual point of the, so, the big things for firearms, steel, aluminum and lead. Those are the big three that come into play when it comes to firearm manufacturing. So, Reuters, they had an are breaking down the steel, aluminum. So, in terms of the steel we use, it’s about a quarter is imported. And then Canada, Brazil, Mexico, and then Vietnam. Those are the steel guys, and Canada’s their list of that. In terms of the imports, Canada and Mexico make up about 40%. So, we have a very good steel market. The one issue, though, is aluminum. Half of the aluminum we use is imported, and Canada is our largest import. But luckily, the Aluminum Association actually on their website came out and their President fully thanked Trump for his focus on the trade and building up our aluminum for the industries. ( https://www.aluminum.org/news/strong-trade-enforcement-access-metal-vital-continued- aluminum-industry-growth) So, Page – 9 – of 12 EvanNappen 27:09 We need our independence, too. Why should we be reliant on anyone? Teddy Nappen 27:12 Exactly. EvanNappen 27:13 You need aluminum, too, for military manufacture and steel for our military manufacturer of weapons. I mean, we’re vulnerable if we can’t make it ourselves. You know, one of the reasons we won World War II is that we were a manufacturing powerhouse, and we could produce what was needed to win the war. We need to get our manufacturing back. And I’m sure President Trump’s policies are going to make us into a manufacturing nation again. Teddy Nappen 27:48 I will say, which I thought was very interesting, is we are the second largest lead exporter. That’s $711 million. and like the others, our imports are, like, Canada, 29. UK, France, Spain are very much low, but we are a powerhouse when it comes to lead. EvanNappen 28:08 So, we get the lead out, huh? Teddy Nappen 28:10 Yeah, exactly. Oh yeah. When I was trying to find like Turkey for Turkey firearms, there’s like, Turkey shotgun. Like, no, that’s turkey guns. EvanNappen 28:21 Wow. Well, this is it. This is now, you know, not just with this, with the tariffs, but and it shows how companies will go to places to manufacture where it’s better for the company. So, what President Trump is doing is making it the U.S. much more attractive for companies to make their products here. We have better laws and a bigger market. But it isn’t just international in which that takes place. Right here at home in New Jersey, Henry Repeating Arms has now committed 100% of its operations to Wisconsin. (https://www.guns.com/news/2025/03/18/henry-commits-to-leaving-anti-gun-new-jersey- shifting-to-wisconsin) EvanNappen 29:05 So, remember, Henry was in Bayonne, New Jersey. Can imagine that? Gun manufacturing in New Jersey. They are now committing 100% of its operations to Wisconsin. So, yet again, New Jersey loses a manufacturer, loses business, loses it over their Second Amendment gun rights oppression, and we have Henry leaving for Wisconsin. Henry is a great company that makes great guns. I love my Henry’s. They are just really great, and it’s a really great company, too. And look, you know what? Who blames them for leaving New Jersey? Absolutely. As a matter of fact, when you would look at a Henry and you’d see Bayonne, New Jersey, it’s almost unbelievable that it was made in Jersey. New Jersey used to have decent gun manufacturers. You had Plainfield Machining in Middlesex. They made M1 Page – 10 – of 12 Carbines. And remember, the original Colt factory was in Patterson, New Jersey. Patterson Colt. New Jersey no longer is any kind of state where you’d want to have firearms made. So, actually, Teddy Nappen 30:27 It reminds me, EvanNappen 30:27 I’m sure Henry will do fine and do even better in Wisconsin, and I can fully understand. Teddy Nappen 30:36 Actually, it reminds me. When I was doing the research, there’s a Colt Canada. (https://www.coltcanada.com/) They actually have a Colt company in Canada, and on the sign of Colt, their emblem, they have a maple leaf. And I was like, oh man. It was. EvanNappen 30:53 Well, in the Civil War, Colt made guns in London, as well, and the London gun. So, they could sell to both sides during the Civil War. North and south, you know. A lot of the London Colts went to the Confederacy. Teddy Nappen 31:10 Y eah. EvanNappen 31:11 And I guess that’s it. That’s a very Ferengi thing, isn’t it? To sell to both sides, huh? Teddy Nappen 31:19 Oh, war is good for profit. EvanNappen 31:21 We are now at the segment that everyone looks forward to, and that is a GOFU. That’s the Gun Owner Fuck Up. Where we learned a very cheap lesson. That was an expensive lesson. Teddy, what should the GOFU be this week? Because you and I deal with this all the time in the law practice. What do you think? Teddy Nappen 31:44 Well, particularly, this seems to be coming up a lot. I don’t know if you’ve been noticing a lot, but people driving in Teslas are actually getting run off the road. Someone will drive up near the car, stop in front of them, get out and just berate the Tesla driver. I saw there was this sweet old lady behind the car, and this dude in a mask comes up to the car and just starts berating her. Calling her a Nazi and screaming at her. Like it was just, oh my God. Page – 11 – of 12 EvanNappen 32:14 You know the left is focusing on (Elon) Musk in this ridiculous way when he’s getting rid of fraud, corruption and waste. So, of course, the left is upset that he’s doing that. That’s what they run on, but to focus on Musk like this, who is just so amazing, from his. Teddy Nappen 32:33 He just saved a bunch of astronauts. EvanNappen 32:35 Yes, saving the astronauts and with his neuro link, you know, making blind being able to see and with the robotics. Then, of course, the great love of the left was electric cars. Electric cars. I mean, what one person, if you believe in that stuff, has done more to help fight so-called climate change than Elon Musk? But now, oh no, no, none of that. All that goes out the window. So, they are focused on attacking Teslas and going after Tesla owners. It’s enough that makes me actually want to buy a Tesla. I think they call that a buycott. Because you get so disgusted, it makes you want to buy the product. EvanNappen 33:15 But here’s the deal. What can you do if you are in a Tesla or another vehicle and somebody starts giving you trouble? Can you pull your gun and show them you have a gun and to leave you alone? The answer is no. Don’t do that. That in New Jersey is a GOFU. Your gun is not a magic wand. Because I’ve seen it over and over and over again. Individuals where there’s been a so-called road rage incident, and the bad guy is the one who did not do anything with guns and was threatening the gun owner, the lawful gun owner who displayed their firearm To the road rager to get them to get the hell away. And guess what? The road rager calls the cops. The cops pull the gun owner over, and they arrest the gun owner for the use of the firearm, the brandishing, the arguably charged with aggravated assault if it was point. All these kind of things. They’ll dump everything they can on the gun owner who was simply trying to defend themselves. EvanNappen 34:27 So, folks, in New Jersey, do not produce your gun. It’s not a magic wand. If you need to draw your gun, it better be that you’re justified in using it. That you’re justified in the use of deadly force. Because if you’re not justified in the use of deadly force, keep it concealed, keep it in the holster. Don’t end up a GOFU where you’re going to end up having the tables turned on you, and we’re going to have a fight through the judicial system. Trying to keep you from being imprisoned and losing your gun rights. EvanNappen 35:06 This is Evan Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens. Speaker 2 35:17 Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state. Page – 12 – of 12 Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S3 E230_Transcript About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets. Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News. As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists. He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America. Email Evan Your Comments and Questions  [email protected] Join Evan’s InnerCircleHere’s your chance to join an elite group of the Savviest gun and knife owners in America.  Membership is totally FREE and Strictly CONFIDENTIAL.  Just enter your email to start receiving insider news, tips, and other valuable membership benefits.   Email (required) *First Name *Select list(s) to subscribe toInnerCircle Membership Yes, I would like to receive emails from Gun Lawyer Podcast. (You can unsubscribe anytime)Constant Contact Use. Please leave this field blank.var ajaxurl = "https://gun.lawyer/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php";