Included: The Podcast

In one of the most powerful moments in the story of Included, Chick Yuill joined a global webinar in 2021 to discuss the harmful writing in Battle Orders.  Throughout the 90’s, and still in some places today, Chick’s training manual was the key learning material for new Soldiers (members) of The Salvation Army.  In it are words that are etched in the minds of LGBTQIA+ Salvationists around the world, words which not only harmed them directly, but led to countless others being emboldened in homophobia.  It’s a legacy that Chick is not proud of and in this replay of that 2021 online conference, Chick offers a heartfelt apology and takes us through his journey of exploration since - explaining that were he to write it again today, it would be a very different message. He then offers a bold and prophetic vision for the future of The Salvation Army.  We’re thankful to Chick for his humility, for his grace is joining us for this conversation  and for his openness to continual dialogue.  If you’d like to chat with someone from the Included team about anything in this discussion, reach out at [email protected] The original video of this conversation and more LGBTQIA+ affirming content is available on our webpage  www.includedpage.com or Facebook.com/includedpage

In this episode we explore what has changed — and what hasn’t — for trans and gender-diverse people across decades of advocacy. Sally Goldner (AM), a long-time advocate and educator whose work has shaped transgender, gender-diverse and bisexual inclusion in Australia, reflects on the progress, backlash and personal cost of visibility over the years. We also speak with Matt Glover, a counsellor specialising in the intersection of faith, sexuality and trauma, whose support for marriage equality led to his dismissal as a Baptist pastor and reshaped his calling. Together they help us understand the ongoing struggles, the deep wounds caused by harmful church responses, and the pathways toward support, healing and hope — for those navigating identity, for their families and allies, and for faith communities seeking to do better.

In this inspiring episode, author Steff Fenton invites us to see transgender people as God’s gift to the church and the world. Drawing from their book Gender Expansive Faith, Steff shares how transness and queerness reveal divine creativity and expand our understanding of what it means to be made in God’s image.   From untangling deficit narratives to celebrating the strength, beauty, and spirituality of queer community, Steff reminds us that God is a diverse creator—and that our stories can lead and teach the church something sacred.   “It’s hard out there right now to be ourselves,” Steff says, “but you reflect divinity. You have a superpower within you to bring healing to our world.”   Join us for a conversation about faith beyond the binary, belonging, and becoming like the One who exists within—and beyond—gender. If you’d like more info about this episode, the Included team or you’d like to chat with someone for support, reach out at [email protected]

Mike Maeshiro’s story moves from evangelical platforms to a new kind of pulpit: one that preaches honesty, hope, and the power of telling your own story out loud. Inspired by pop lyrics and the pursuit of love without fear. Ex-evangelical pastor, now advocate and influencer Mike Maeshiro opens up about coming out, deconstructing faith, and learning to live out loud in the ruins of certainty. With a little prod from a Taylor Swift anthem, Mike found himself and used his voice to encourage others struggling to reconcile their sexuality with what the chruch was telling them.  In a world of political chaos and spiritual confusion, Mike offers a vision of faith grounded in honesty, wholeness, and justice. His story reminds us that deconstruction doesn’t have to mean destruction; it can be an act of courage, compassion, and clarity — rebuilding something truer than before. When faith becomes fear and politics become idols, what’s left? For Mike, it’s the rediscovery of love, freedom, and belonging. This is an episode for anyone who’s ever wondered if they could still find God — or themselves — after leaving certainty behind. If you'd like to get in touch with someone from the INCLUDED team, we're at [email protected] Mike's page is at www.mikemaeshiro.com/ 

In this compelling episode, we chat with Rev. Dr. Katy Valentine, a theologian and pastor with deep expertise in theology regarding gender identity. Together, we explore the intersection of scripture, gender, and inclusion, unpacking the often-overlooked stories in the Bible that champion radical acceptance. Dr. Valentine sheds light on the historical and theological underpinnings of transgender inclusion, the harm caused by exclusionary practices, and the transformative power of unmasking our authentic selves in faith communities. Whether you’re rethinking your views or standing as an ally, this conversation will inspire and equip you to embrace the full diversity of God’s beloved creation. If you'd like to get in touch with us to talk further, you can email us anytime at [email protected] We mention a discount code in the chat, here's the info!  For those who live in the continental United States: Promo Code: TRANSBIBLICAL40 40% discount on www.wjkbooks.com Ends May 15, 2025. Outside of USA: email customer service department at [email protected] and we would honor the discount

Josephine Inkpin has been referred to as one of the most influential queer faith leaders in Sydney's history. She is a priest, theologian and activist. Currently a minister of the Uniting Church is Australia, she was previously a member of the Anglican Church and was the church's first openly transgender priest. She chats with Kris and guest host Sharon Priestly about a lifetime of pushing boundaries to live, and thrive as a queer person of faith Josephine's blog is at https://www.transspirit.org/ 

Allyson, an ex-Officer and Wielie, a 4th generation Salvationists blocked from following his calling through The Salvation Army, reflect on life before, during and after active involvement with The Salvation Army.  Does the call ever leave you? Does the passion for Army mission and ministry diminish with time? Is the church complete without those who are gender or sexuality diverse?  A deep and moving conversation with two remarkable queer Christians in Australia and The Netherlands. 

Will Small challenges us to rethink inclusion for the marginalised and the creation of safe spaces to explore life and faith. In this joint Venture 12 and Included: The Podcast chat, Will shares some of his journey of evolving faith, finding God in unexpected places and processing it through poetry along the way. Learn more about Will's work: Spiritual Misfits willsmall.com.au

Three courageous women, ‘squeaky wheel’ allies, who have been on the forefront of inclusion and equity for years, chat about why they continue to fight and believe for change. Pull up a chair, grab the coffee that they didn’t get, and have a listen. No mansplaining, we promise!

With a deep assurance that he is loved and accepted by God, Martin shares the lifetime journey to living openly and accepting himself. (Apologies for the audio quality in this one, we had a poor internet connection, but stick with it because it's a deeply moving conversation!)  

With many similarlites between our two Welseyan denominations, Kris & Phil talk with Alexa and Thomas Oord, who developed 'Why the Church of the Nazarene Should Be Fully LGBTQ+ Affirming', a groundbreaking collection of testimonials, ally insights and scholarly articles.  

Sharon shares her 30-year journey in, out and back into The Salvation Army, finally finding belonging as her true self. She’s joined by her affirming corps officer Katie.

A throw back to a 2022 webinar chat - Noelia talks to Jon Phil Winter about the challenges and persecution in working for dialogue and change in South America as well as the openess by many to the conversation.

Covering the "what now" and "what's next", a panel discussion about the missional importance and imperative of dialogue and change in The Salvation Army. An insightful, heart-felt, Spirit led conversation including reflections from the International Symposium on Human Sexuality. Rebecka Cotterill chats with Bethany Gibson (UK), Brad Watson (Aus), Katie Ryan (Aus) and Richard Burr (UK).

Rebecka speaks to Captain Kris Halliday and Lieut Nazia Yousaf about the complexities of change in our international, hierarchical church. 

Jon-Phil talks to Rev. Dr Arno Steen Andreasen about the importance of Pride. Is there a need for party and protest? Has Pride become too vanilla or too extreme and how the weapons of our inclusion warfare are glitter and disco balls.    Arno is a Project Manager working with homeless migrants for Salvation Army. He is in the process of planting a church in Copenhagen called “House of Rainbow” as part of the Metropolitan Community Church and is the former Co-president of the European Forum of LGBT Christian Groups.

Kris & Mark introduce a dialogue from the Included 2020 webinar.  Exploring a position of affirmation for those who are sexuality or gender diverse through the lens of Scripture, Wesleyan understanding and doctrines of The Salvation Army. A conversation between Rev Assoc Professor Glen O'Brien and Major Karina Wood.     

Kris and Jon-Phil talk to the insightful New Testament Professor, Rebecca Solevåg. How is biblical theology being used in the conversation around inclusion? How is it misunderstood? Where might we find the Good News for people of diverse sexuality and gender?

We begin this season of INCLUDED: The Podacst grounded in personal story. Hosts Kris and Beth listen back to Kit's testimony from INCLUDED 2021. Kit is a Salvation Army Officer (ordained minister) from Leamington Spa in the United Kingdom and Ireland Territory.