The Pastor Theologians Podcast

A short bonus conversation with CPT fellow Matthew LaMaster on a book that has influenced his preaching ministry and his aspiration to write his sermons six months before they are preached.

In this episode of the CPT Podcast, Matt Lamaster discusses his path into pastoral ministry, from his upbringing in evangelical churches to serving as a pastor in rural Maine. He reflects on the challenges of his first pastorate, the lessons he learned through ministry and theological study, and how his work in the book of Hebrews has shaped his understanding of the pastor theologian’s calling. The conversation explores church leadership, theological formation, and perseverance in ministry.

Joel Lawrence sits down with Rich Kidd of Mission Leadership to discuss the changing landscape of pastoral leadership. Drawing from years of experience in executive search and ministry, Kidd reflects on the growing need for shepherds, not just speakers, in ministry today, and the challenges churches face in identifying and supporting healthy leaders. How can churches engage in practices that appropriately vet candidates, build trust with congregations, and prioritize a relational approach to ministry?

A short bonus episode where CPT fellow Joey Sherrard shares discusses St. Augustine's important book, On Christian Teaching.

This episode features a conversation with Joey Sherrard about his new book The Augustinian Pastor, exploring how the life and theology of Augustine can shape modern pastoral ministry. Drawing from his own journey—especially rediscovering Augustine during COVID—Sherrard highlights how Augustine’s work as a hands-on pastor was itself the outworking of and context in which he did his theological reflection. Key themes include the importance of pastoral friendship, the ongoing struggle with pride and sin, and the cultivation of humility through dependence on God. Pastors should see their ordinary work not as a barrier to theological depth, but as the very place where rich, enduring theology is formed.

This episode features a conversation* with Pastor Jonathan Griffiths on his ministry journey—from Toronto to Oxford and Cambridge—and the theological vision behind his book Gathered for Good. The discussion explores the importance of the local church’s physical gathering, especially in a post-COVID context, addressing challenges like disengagement, “fringe” attendance, and the rise of virtual church participation. Griffiths offers pastoral and theological insight into why committed, embodied church life matters and how leaders can cultivate deeper buy-in and discipleship within their congregations.(*Note: This episode was recorded in mid 2025. Some time references may be slightly out of date for this reason.)Join us at the CPT Conference

A short bonus episode where CPT fellow Matt Erickson shares two formative books for his ministry—Eugene Peterson’s Working the Angles and Tim Keller’s Preaching—highlighting how they shape his approach to prayer, Scripture, pastoral care, and effective preaching.Join us at the CPT Conference

In this episode of the The CPT Podcast, hosts Zachary Wagner and Joel Lawrence interview Matt Erickson about his path to pastoral ministry and the ideas behind his book The Pastor as Gardener. Erickson shares his conversion in high school, his formation at Wheaton College and Northern Theological Seminary, and how crises in ministry—including COVID-19 and church tensions—pushed him to rethink common leadership models. Drawing on Eugene Peterson and biblical imagery such as 1 Corinthians 3, he argues that pastors should see themselves as “gardeners” who cultivate conditions for growth while trusting God to produce the fruit, emphasizing spiritual formation, shared ministry, and long-term hope.Join us at the CPT Conference

In this final episode of the Preaching in the Pastor-Theologian series, Joel Lawrence and Matt Kim are joined by Nicole Martin—pastor, preacher, and President/CEO of Christianity Today—for a wide-ranging conversation that brings the series’ central themes into sharp focus. Drawing on her own preaching journey and her book Nailing It, Martin reflects on preaching as a theological act of proclamation rather than performance, emphasizing surrender, simplicity, and a God-centered vision of the pulpit. Together, they explore the difference between preaching and teaching, the dangers of human-centered and culturally driven sermons, and the urgent need for theological formation shaped by the cross rather than triumphalism. The episode closes with a candid and pastoral word to preachers: true faithfulness lies not in success or spectacle, but in dying to self, trusting the sufficiency of God’s grace, and letting the Word of God do its work among a listening church—and a listening preacher.Join us at the CPT Conference

In this episode, Joel Lawrence and Matt Kim welcome Todd Still, Delancey Dean and Professor of Christian Scriptures at Truett Seminary, for a rich conversation on theological education and the formation of preachers. Drawing on his own journey as a pastor, scholar, and dean, Still articulates a layered theological vision for preaching—rooted in the grand narrative of Scripture, shaped by evangelical and Baptist convictions, and deeply informed by Pauline theology. Together, the hosts and guest explore the vocation of the pastor theologian, the necessity of rigorous theological study for faithful proclamation, and the dangers of thin, topic-driven preaching detached from Scripture. The conversation also addresses the role seminaries play in forming preachers, the importance of uniting substance and style, and the need for preaching that aims at discipleship and Christlike formation. The episode concludes with an extended discussion of Truett Seminary’s PhD in Preaching, highlighting its commitment to forming scholar-pastors who can serve both the church and the academy for the long haul.Join us at the CPT Conference

Joel Lawrence and Matt Kim speak with CPT Fellow Dan Brendsel about preaching in an age shaped by social media, attention economics, and artificial intelligence, exploring how technology subtly reinforces idolatry and the illusion of control. Brendsel argues that preaching should resist catering to diminished attention spans and instead cultivate prayerful attentiveness to God, framing preaching as God’s address to a listening community rather than a performance or content delivery optimized by technique or AI. Drawing on thinkers like Neil Postman, C. S. Lewis, and Oliver O’Donovan, he emphasizes improvisation, dependence on the Spirit, and the irreplaceable “occasion” of preaching—something no algorithm can anticipate. The conversation challenges pastors to examine how technology forms both preachers and congregations, calling them back to trust in the Word, embodied listening, and a posture of humble submission rather than technological mastery.Join us at the CPT Conference

In this episode, Joel Lawrence and Matt Kim talk with pastor, lawyer, and theologian K. Edward Copeland about how the gospel shapes the church’s engagement with today’s social and political tensions. Ed shares his unique journey—from overcoming a childhood speech impediment to decades of ministry and justice work—and offers a compelling vision of the gospel as God’s reconciling work for people, systems, and the whole cosmos. Drawing on the African American preaching tradition and the posture of exile, he explains how preaching can form Christians who discern cultural idols, process societal events theologically, and live faithfully amid fractured times. The result is a conversation full of wisdom, hope, and clarity for pastors and congregations navigating the complexities of modern life.Join us at the CPT Conference

In this conversation, hosts Joel Lawrence and Matt Kim speak with Gerald Hiestand—senior pastor of Calvary Memorial Church and co-founder of the Center for Pastor Theologians—about cultural intelligence and the work of preaching. Drawing from his ministry in the diverse and politically complex context of Oak Park, Illinois, Gerald describes the challenges and opportunities of engaging culture thoughtfully from the pulpit. He reflects on how pastors can understand the visible and invisible layers of culture, avoid the “ditches” on either side of cultural and political extremes, and use cultural “types” as pathways that point people toward the gospel. The discussion explores how preaching can form a theological vision of culture, how to love congregations well by understanding their varied backgrounds, and how pastors can navigate political tensions with a Christ-centered framework. Gerald also shares personal reflections on growing in pastoral confidence, learning to give clearer admonition with less scaffolding, and shepherding faithfully through turbulent cultural seasons.Join us at the CPT Conference

Joel Lawrence and Matt Kim talk with Ahmi Lee about her vision for preaching as participation in God’s “grand drama.” Drawing from her global upbringing, pastoral experience, and theological training, Lee explains how preaching should bridge text-centered and reader-centered approaches by rooting sermons in the sweeping biblical narrative while remaining attentive to the lived experiences of listeners. She argues that preaching is ultimately a doxological act—first for God, then for the church, and still welcoming to those exploring faith. The hosts and Lee discuss the purpose of preaching, the role of the congregation as active listeners, the need for holistic and integrated biblical formation, and how preachers can engage diverse audiences. Lee closes by reflecting on how God is teaching her to trust Him more deeply amid a restless and chaotic world.Join us at the CPT Conference

Joel Lawrence and Matt Kim speak with Anglican priest and theologian Jonathan Bailes about the deep connection between preaching, discipleship, and the daily life of the church. Bailes reflects on the formative role of preaching within a liturgical tradition, emphasizing that the sermon is not commentary on current events but an encounter with the living voice of God that continually calls the church to remembrance amid spiritual forgetfulness. Drawing on Scripture, church history, and pastoral experience, he argues that discipleship is shaped less by novelty and more by steady saturation in God’s Word—through preaching, liturgy, and practices that help Christians hear, understand, and be formed by Scripture. The conversation ultimately invites pastors to reclaim confidence in the simple, repeated proclamation of the gospel as the heart of Christian formation.Join us at the CPT Conference

Joel Lawrence and Matt Kim speak with Paul Hoffman, senior pastor of Evangelical Friends Church in Newport, Rhode Island, about his ministry journey and upcoming transition to a faculty role at Samford University. The conversation centers on the book Preaching to a Divided Nation, coauthored by Hoffman and Kim, exploring how pastors can preach for reconciliation amid cultural, political, and racial divisions. Together, they discuss the theological foundations of unity, the “four isms” that divide the church, the importance of empathy and storytelling in pastoral ministry, and how preaching forms Christian identity. Hoffman also reflects on listening as a spiritual discipline, cultivating a “non-anxious presence,” and embracing the call to be ambassadors of reconciliation in a fractured world.Join us at the CPT Conference

CPT fellow and senior pastor of Calvary Church in Grand Rapids, Jim Samra, joins Joel Lawrence and Matt Kim for episode two of Preaching and the Pastor Theologian. Together, they explore the connection between a pastor’s inner life and the ministry of preaching. Samra reflects on the church as a “pillar” and “conduit” between heaven and earth, emphasizing how a preacher’s holiness and attentiveness to God enable this connection. He shares practical rhythms of prayer, fasting, accountability, and sermon preparation rooted in dependence on the Holy Spirit. The conversation also delves into his understanding of prophecy, hearing God’s voice, and cultivating a congregation that listens for divine guidance. In closing, Samra discusses the importance of “cleaning up contaminated land” within the church—acknowledging past wounds and cultural sins so that the body of Christ can truly embody healing and holiness in its community and witness.Join us at the CPT Conference

Episode One of “Preaching and the Pastor Theologian” Hosts Joel Lawrence and Matt Kim introduce a ten-part exploration of the theology of preaching, launched through the CPT’s Compelling Preaching Initiative funded by the Lilly Endowment. Their guest, theologian Kimlyn Bender of Truett Seminary, discusses the theme “Preaching God, Listening Church,” emphasizing that God—not the preacher—is the primary speaker in the sermon and that Christ is present through the Spirit whenever the Word is proclaimed. Bender urges pastors to see themselves as “first listeners,” conduits through whom God addresses his people, and calls congregations to come expectantly as active, prayerful hearers. The conversation explores how preaching fits within God’s ongoing communication, the mystery of divine and human agency in proclamation, and the need for both humility and confidence in the pulpit. It concludes with Bender’s reminder that the church often “expects too little of God” and that true preaching rests on faith in God’s living presence and faithfulness to speak again.Join us at the CPT Conference

CPT Manager of Church Programs, Steve Williamson, joins Zach and Joel to discuss this year's slate of cohorts for church leaders, exploring ecclesial identity, the arts, and cultural apologetics.Learn more and apply at:https://www.pastortheologians.co/identity-cohortandhttps://www.pastortheologians.co/learningcohortsJoin us at the CPT Conference

In this episode of the CPT Podcast, Zach Wagner and Joel Lawrence talk with CPT fellow Joey Sherrard, discipleship pastor at Signal Mountain Presbyterian Church. Joey shares his story of coming to faith, studying theology at Rhodes, Duke, and St. Andrews, and discerning his calling as a pastor-theologian. He reflects on the influence of mentors, the challenges of growing up in a non-Christian home, and how thinkers like Augustine and T.F. Torrance shape his ministry today—including a preview of his forthcoming book The Augustinian Pastor (March 2026).Join us at the CPT Conference

Shaun Brown, senior minister at Rocky Mount Christian Church and a fellow in the St. Hildegard Fellowship, joins the podcast to explore his journey through the Stone-Campbell movement, academic theology, and vocational ministry. Shaun shares how his faith was shaped by early experiences in church and Christian education, ultimately leading him from Bible college to a PhD program at Wycliffe College in Toronto, where he focused on the theology of George Lindbeck. The conversation highlights Shaun's transition from aspiring professor to pastor theologian, the theological distinctives of the Stone-Campbell tradition—particularly regarding baptism—and how his academic training now informs his preaching, pastoral leadership, and ongoing scholarship.Join us at the CPT Conference

Amy Peeler for a rich conversation exploring pastoral identity, theological formation, and the upcoming Pastor Theologians Conference, Good Shepherds: Pastoral Identity and the Future of the Church. Amy shares insights from her latest projects—including a forthcoming book on Ordinary Time and an in-depth study of Paul’s use of birth and incarnation language—while reflecting on her own pastoral journey and the people who have shepherded her well. The discussion dives into the challenges of pastoral isolation, the necessity of relational connection in ministry, and the transformative power of vulnerability and shared learning.Join us at the CPT Conference

Chris Bruno joins the podcast today to tell us about his recent book, Sharing Christ in Joy and Sorrow: A Theology of Philippians. What are the key theological themes in the book of Philippians? How do those themes fit together and inform one another? How does Philippians encourage and exhort those who are in seasons of suffering? What does Union with Christ mean? Learn more on today's episode!Join us at the CPT Conference

Ed Gerber joins us to share his story of becoming a pastor theologian. How can the Lord use even a significant break up to prepare someone for ministry? How can those who prepare future ministry leaders be both preachers and teachers to their students? What is the balance between head and heart for those who study theology academically? This and more on today’s episode!Join us at the CPT Conference

For our June episode on books, we, the CPT staff, have been reading:JD Vance, Hillbilly Elegy (2016)Rémi Brague, Kingdom of Man: Genesis and Failure of the Modern Project, (2018)Elizabeth Goudge, The Dean's Watch, (2012)Join us at the CPT Conference

Today on the podcast we are joined by Rev. Dr. Michael Niebauer as he shares about his recent book, Four Mountains: Encountering God in the Bible from Eden to Zion. How can Christians encounter Jesus on every page of the Bible? What can we learn from how the earliest Christians read Scripture, and connect seemingly disparate stories in the text? What is distinct about this style of reading as opposed, for example, to 6-week Bible studies or academic study? This and more on today's episode!Join us at the CPT Conference

Jason Meyer, lead pastor of Urban Refuge Church in Minneapolis, MN, joins the podcast today to tell us about his journey towards becoming a pastor theologian. After serving eight years as a pastor at Bethlehem Baptist, Jason shares what he learned about his own calling, and the identity of a "pastor." This and more on today's episode!Join us at the CPT Conference

CPT board member Doug Sweeney joins the podcast today. He previews his topic for the 2025 CPT Conference, Good Shepherds: Pastoral Identity and the Future of the Church. What are good Christian pastors supposed to be like? On the other hand, what malformative models of pastoral identity are common in our culture today? Doug also tells us about his 2024 book, Substance of Our Faith: Foundations for the History of Christian Doctrine. Check it out on today's episode!Join us at the CPT Conference

Casey Hough joins us to talk about his recent book,When Poets Were Warriors: Retrieving a Biblical Vision of Masculinity (B&H Publishing, 2025).  “Masculinity” is an increasingly popular subject for public discourse. Drawing on his experiences as a pastor and father, Hough argues that Christians ought to return to the complex and challenging example of Jesus, instead of relying on cultural stereotypes, to form our vision of masculinity. If we consider Jesus Christ to be a model for masculinity, how do we then think about femininity, and any differences or similarities between the two? What should pastors consider as they shape their discipleship ministries? This and more on today’s episode! Join us at the CPT Conference

What is culture, and what is our relationship to it as Christians? Dennis Greeson joins the podcast today to talk about his recent book The Way of Christ in Culture: A Vision for All of Life (Lifeway 2024), coauthored with Benjamin T. Quinn. In the book, the authors provide a framework for knowing one’s time in God’s story, one’s place in creation, and following wisdom. He also shares about the Alexandrian Institute, a cohort-based model for theological education focused on engaging Scripture and confessional traditions and the wisdom of previous generations of Christians, and sending students to engage their context. Join us at the CPT Conference

This week, James Arcadi joins the podcast to talk about his latest book, Holiness: Divine and Human (2023). He also shares about his dual calling to both pastoral ministry as a full-time Anglican rector, and to academic theology as a guest professor at Wheaton College. What is the relationship between abstract ideas and practical application? What does it mean for something to be "consecrated" or "holy"?  This and more on today's podcast!Join us at the CPT Conference

On the podcast this week, Adam Copenhaver shares with us about his early ministry caring for an older congregation, and his education and research on Colossians. He also tells us about his current pastoral context leading a church in a small, migrant farm town which had previously been led by an abusive pastor. He previews the breakout topic he will lead at the 2025 CPT Conference, Good Shepherds: Pastoral Identity and the Future of the Church. How can our churches become both helpful and welcoming to those who are suffering abuse or oppression? How can pastors identify and eliminate harmful tendencies in themselves that could lead to abuse later? Join us at the CPT Conference

This week we are joined by CTP Fellow Ben Burkholder. Ben shares how he developed an interest in learning how people grow as disciples. Reflecting on his time as a student, Ben also shares insights about the relationship between psychology and spiritual formation. This and more on today’s podcast! Join us at the CPT Conference

Join us this week as we get to know Eric Rivera. Eric will be a plenary speaker at the 2025 Pastor Theologians Conference, Good Shepherds: Pastoral Identity and the Future of the Church. On this episode, Eric talks about how his story shaped his interests and calling in church history and pastoral ministry. Drawing from his context as a pastor at a multi-ethnic church in the greater Chicago area, he also shares what he has learned it means to be a Good Shepherd in the 21st Century. Join us at the CPT Conference

Samuel Parkison joins the podcast today to talk about his recent book, To Gaze upon God: The Beatific Vision in Doctrine, Tradition, and Practice (InterVarsity Press 2024.) He also shares with us his story and calling to academic ministry at the Abu Dhabi Extension Site at Gulf Theological Seminary in the United Arab Emirates. What is the beatific vision? What does the beatific vision have to do with this moment in history for the church? This and more on today's podcast!Join us at the CPT Conference

For our April episode on books, we, the CPT staff, have been reading:CR Wiley, In the House of Tom Bombadil (2021)Ryan Holiday, The Obstacle Is the Way (2014)Percival Everett, James (2024)Harold Netland, Religious Experience and the Knowledge of God (2022)Join us at the CPT Conference

Nadya Williams joins the podcast to talk about her recent book, Mothers, Children, and the Body Politic: Ancient Christianity and the Recovery of Human Dignity (IVP Academic, 2024.) How do our attitudes towards motherhood reflect either a commodification of human life or, by contrast, a rich affirmation of the imago dei? This and more on today’s podcast! Join us at the CPT Conference

Stephen Campbell joins us today on the CPT podcast. Stephen tells us about witnessing his family's ministry through his childhood. He also shares how the Lord prepared him for his current context pastoring in Germany, and his research on the book of Deuteronomy. This and more on today's podcast!Join us at the CPT Conference

Matt O'Reilly joins us today to talk about his recent book Free to Be Holy: A Biblical Theology of Sanctification.  What does the Bible teach us about holiness? How can the broader Evangelical community learn from historically Methodist theologies of sanctification? How can ecclesial styles of theological writing serve pastors and congregations as they work through topics like this one? This and more on today's podcast!Join us at the CPT Conference

Brad Littlejohn joins the podcast today to talk about his new book, Called to Freedom: Retrieving Christian Liberty in an Age of License. What is human "freedom"? Where do American theological, moral, and political concepts of freedom and liberty come from? How do Scripture and our culture view "freedom" differently, and how can pastors help the Church's ability to think Biblically about "freedom"? This and more on today's podcast!Join us at the CPT Conference

Steve Turnbull joins the podcast to share his journey of becoming a pastor and Biblical scholar. As a pastor theologian, Steve has worked to develop a rich Biblical narrative imagination. Today, he serves as a senior pastor of Upper Arlington Lutheran Church in Ohio, as well as the provost and professor of New Testament at The Master's Institute in Minnesota. Join us at the CPT Conference

We are excited to have Carl Trueman on the podcast today. Carl discusses his some of his recent books, including To Change All Worlds: Critical Theory from Marx to Marcuse, which provides an introductory intellectual history of Critical Theory, primarily non-polemically. In this episode, Carl walks us through the key figures and orienting ideas of Frankfurt School and Critical Theory. What is the connection between Critical Theory and Critical Race Theory? How can pastors steward the church's confession as they help congregations navigate their contexts which may be influenced by these ideas? This and more on today's episode. Join us at the CPT Conference

Aaron Friesen joins the podcast today to share his story of becoming a pastor theologian. Aaron describes how, in part though his seminary education at Fuller, he developed a vision and sense of calling for integrating theological education and service to the local church within his pentecostal tradition. Today, Aaron serves at CitySalt church in Eugene, OR and teaches in an adjunct capacity. Join us at the CPT Conference

Today we are joined on the podcast by Rhys Laverty as we discuss Life on the Silent Planet: Essays on Christian Living from C.S. Lewis’s Ransom Trilogy  (Davenant Institute, 2024). This volume, edited by Laverty, is a collection of essays highlighting Lewis's insights on topics such as gender, contraception, bureaucracy, and transhumanism, as he wove them into the Ransom Trilogy. What questions does Lewis explore in his fiction that are pastorally relevant in our context today? How can the Ransom Trilogy continue to inform Christian living? This and more on today's podcasts!Join us at the CPT Conference

Jon English Lee joins the podcast today to discuss his book, There Remains a Sabbath Rest for the People of God: A Biblical, Theological, & Historical Defense of Sabbath Rest as a Creation Ordinance. What is the theological significance of rest in Scripture? What does it mean for a pastor to lead from a restful soul? This and more on today's podcast episode!Join us at the CPT Conference

Jennifer Powell McNutt joins the podcast once again to discuss her recent book, The Mary We Forgot: What the Apostle to the Apostles Teaches the Church Today (Brazos Press 2024). Mary Magdalene's story has often been undervalued and confused, in part due to what Jennifer calls the "muddle of Marys" in the Gospels. What can we gain by a more careful analysis of Mary's story? How can we be served by approaching the biblical text with a "hermeneutic of surprise"? How can Mary Magdalene serve as a model for Christian discipleship today? This and more on today's podcast. Join us at the CPT Conference

Matthew LaPine joins the podcast to share his journey of faith through mental health challenges in his family and more. How can "playing the long game" shape our perspective as we navigate life's challenges? This and more on today’s episode!Join us at the CPT Conference

Charles (Chad) Kim joins the podcast to talk about his book, The Way of Humility: St. Augustine’s Theology of Preaching. How is Augustine’s theology and specifically the virtue of humility reflected in Augustine’s Sermon? Hear this and more on today’s episode.  Join us at the CPT Conference

Ryan joins the podcast today to share his story, including his background in the Pentecostal tradition. Find out how that tradition has shaped him as a pastor theologian. Further, how can we learn from themes of doubt, deconstruction, and anti-intellectualism? How do we think about these themes as ministry leaders? All this and more on today’s podcast. Join us at the CPT Conference

As we wrap up 2024, in this episode the CPT staff reflects on the past year, and looks ahead to what the Lord might do through our ministry in 2025. Join us at the CPT Conference