The Sacred Slope

🎙️ 32. Sharon McMahon (We Are Mighty) & We Are the Ones We’ve Been Waiting ForAlexis Rice sits down with Sharon McMahon, bestselling author, educator, and creator of “@SharonSaysSo,” for a deeply moving conversation about history, democracy, courage, faith, and the ordinary people who shape the world around us.As Sharon releases her new children’s book, We Are Mighty: 12 Ordinary Americans Who Did the Next Needed Thing, Alexis and Sharon explore figures of American history, some famous, some not, about the power of education, and what it means to continue doing good with no assurance of success. Together, they discuss Martin Luther King Jr., Maria de Lopez, Abraham Lincoln, Rosa Parks, Septima Clark, Clara Brown, and the everyday people whose unseen acts of courage changed generations.This episode is a reminder that history is not only shaped by presidents, billionaires, or celebrities - but by teachers, neighbors, parents, organizers, and ordinary people willing to do the next needed thing.💬 In This Episode• Why “doing the next needed thing” can change history• Stories behind We Are Mighty and The Small and the Mighty• Martin Luther King Jr.’s struggle with depression and self-doubt• Rosa Parks, Septima Clark, and the unseen roots of the Civil Rights Movement• Clara Brown, faith, forgiveness, and resistance• Why education is liberation• The danger of Christian nationalism and authoritarianism• The difference between performative religion and living compassionately• Sharon’s canceled commencement speech, the political backlash, and how she's doing the next needed thing• Why history gives hope during difficult times• What teachers and ordinary citizens need to hear right now about the power of community• Why courage rarely comes with assurance of successSharon reminds us that the people who change the world are rarely the loudest or the most powerful. More often, they are ordinary people choosing courage, compassion, education, and hope in moments when success is far from guaranteed.And maybe that moment is ours now.We Are Mighty for Kids, illustrated by @susannachapman, from @penguinrandomhouse is out May 19 https://sharonmcmahon.com/book👥 People Mentioned• Sarah Bessey: @sarahbessey• Kate Bowler: @katecbowler• Nadia Bolz-Weber: @sarcasticlutheranSupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

🎙️ 31. Jeremy Steele (United Methodist, Skeptic Pastor) - Stop Ceding Faith: Democrats and Media Need Progressive Pastors NowAlexis sits down with Jeremy Steele (@skeptic.pastor), a United Methodist pastor, author, and self-described “deep skeptic,” for a bold, unfiltered conversation about faith, politics, and the stories shaping Christianity in America today.Jeremy returns to The Sacred Slope to challenge some of the most widely held beliefs in evangelical spaces - including the rapture - and to name what’s really happening when extreme voices dominate the narrative. Together, Alexis and Jeremy unpack Christian nationalism, the absence of progressive faith voices in media and politics, and why that silence is creating a dangerous vacuum.This episode is both a wake-up call and a clear invitation: if Democrats and media want to reach people of faith, they cannot keep ignoring progressive pastors. The voices exist. The audience is there. The moment is now.💬 In This Episode• Why the rapture isn’t supported by serious biblical scholarship• How fear-based theology stays in our bodies even after deconstruction• Christian nationalism and the “shock jock” effect in media• Why Democrats and progressive media have ceded the language of faith• A direct call: put progressive pastors and faith leaders on stage• The gap between evangelical narratives and global Christianity• Letting go of all-or-nothing faith frameworks• Reclaiming spiritual practices and rituals after church hurt• Why compassion is central to the teachings of Jesus👥 People/Resources Mentioned• Jeremy Steele: @skepticpastor | https://skepticpastor.com • Rituals for Heretics: https://skepticpastor.com/rituals • How to Not Suck as a Christian https://jeremy-steele.com/suck-book• Dan McClellan: @maklelan• Jennifer Garcia Bashaw: @jgbashaw• The Bible for Normal People: @thebiblefornormalpeople• Senator Raphael Warnock: @raphaelwarnock• Jimmy Kimmel: @jimmykimmel• Stephen Colbert: @stephenathome• MSNow: @msnbc• CNN: @cnn • Don Lemon Show: @donlemonofficialFrom calling out harmful theology to naming the silence in progressive spaces, Jeremy makes a compelling case: the rapture isn’t real, but the consequences of bad theology are. And if we don’t elevate better voices, we leave the loudest ones unchecked.#Christianity #deconstruction #progressiveChristianity #ChristianNationalism #faithandpolitics #exvangelical #OpenAndAffirming #MentalHealthSupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

🎙️ 30. Christina Zini (United Methodist/Lutheran) -  This Is What Christianity Looks Like When It’s Not About Control & The Sacred Slope Turns 1!!!!! With music by Derek Webb!Alexis Rice sits down with Christina Zini, a friend of 20+ years, a leadership coach, Christian woman, global citizen, for a deeply personal and reflective conversation marking one year of The Sacred Slope.Christina shares her journey of faith from growing up Lutheran in a small town in the US to living across the world and discovering a Christianity rooted not in control or coercion, but in love, openness, and deep respect for others. Together, Alexis and Christina explore what it actually looks like to follow Jesus in a complex and divided world.They reflect on friendship, church, and culture, and what this past year of The Sacred Slope has revealed: that faith is far more expansive than many were taught, that people across religions are not enemies but neighbors, and that people are drawn to Jesus not by force, but by how we show up.At the heart of this conversation is a powerful message: they are to know us by our love.💬 In This Episode• Celebrating one year of The Sacred Slope• Growing up in Lutheran and Methodist traditions• Faith shaped by global experiences and travel• Church shopping and finding aligned community• Why love matters more than conversion• Respecting other religions while following Jesus• Women’s leadership and agency in faith and life• IVF, health decisions, and bodily autonomy• Letting go of control and learning to trust God• Navigating faith in a time of division• Friendship as a spiritual anchor• What it means to live out the fruit of the Spirit💛 Thank you Derek Webb A special thank you to Derek Webb @DerekWebb and his team for allowing me to use his music in this anniversary episode from his album, Survival Songs: https://www.derekwebb.com/dwdwdw/p/survival-songs-cd-digital-downloadDerek was one of my first interviews and it was so healing: https://youtu.be/Gr-lWvMLj9A?si=GQR4mlKygpRMMf3U💛 Support The Sacred SlopeIf this podcast has meant something to you and you want to see more conversations like this:☕ Buy Me a Coffee: https://buymeacoffee.com/thesacredslope 💛 Linktree to Venmo: https://linktr.ee/TheSacredSlopeYour support helps amplify voices, expand this community, and continue these conversations around the world.#Christianity #deconstruction #OpenAndAffirming #MentalHealthSupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

🎙️ 29. Part 2. Reproductive Rights - Rev. jessica young chang (UCC): Faith, Freedom, and Who Gets to DecideA note: This is so hard to talk about.I was raised to believe this was the issue. The line you could never cross.And if you did… you were wrong. You were evil.So I get it. I really do.But after listening to real stories… and sitting with real people… I realized this isn’t simple. It never was.There’s more nuance here than we were told.Alexis Rice sits down with rev. jessica young chang, a UCC minister and reproductive chaplain, for a compassionate conversation about faith, reproductive justice, and what it means to follow Jesus in complex, real-world situations.Following Part 1 with Alexis’s childhood friend Valerie - a story of pregnancy, cancer, and survival - this episode moves into the pastoral and theological realities behind reproductive decisions.This is a deeply emotional topic. For many Christians in the United States, this has been the defining political issue for over 40 years. Many have been taught that to think differently is to be wrong, sinful, or beyond redemption.If you feel tension, grief, or resistance as you listen, you are not alone.This episode does not tell you what to think. It invites you to listen.Together, they explore how faith, power, and the body intersect - and create space for those who have felt judged, silenced, or pushed out of the conversation.At the heart of this episode is a grounding truth: nothing separates you from the love of God.💬 In This Episode• Reproductive chaplaincy & spiritual care• Why this issue is not simple or binary• What the Bible does/doesn't say about abortion• Life begins at breath & personhood• Power, politics, & Christian nationalism• Pro-life vs anti-choice• Why access reduces abortion rates• Real-world consequences when care is restricted• Grief, relief, & lived experiences• Deconstructing faith while holding onto Jesus• Navigating shame & inherited beliefs• A prayer for healing & freedom👥 THANK YOU to the following folks who allowed me to include their social media clips in this episode:• Dan McClellan: @maklelan• Tim Whitaker: @timwhitakerspeaks / @thenewevangelicals• Mark Sandlin: @marksandlin / @progressivechristianity / @the_christian_left• John Fugelsang: @johnfugelsang• Jeremy Steele: @skeptic.pastor• Heather Gardner: @heathergtv📚 OrganizationsFaith Aloud | Faith Choice Ohio @faithchoiceohioPlanned Parenthood @plannedparenthood#Christianity #deconstruction #reproductiverightsSupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

28. Part 1. Reproductive Rights: Valerie's Story - Pregnancy, Cancer, and a Life-or-Death ChoiceAlexis sits down with her childhood friend Valerie Ruschke for a deeply personal and emotional conversation about reproductive rights, faith, and medical reality.At 16 weeks pregnant, Valerie was diagnosed with aggressive Stage 3 HER2-positive breast cancer. Doctors told her she had less than a 10% chance of survival unless she terminated the pregnancy immediately to begin life-saving treatment.This is Part 1 of a two-part series exploring reproductive rights, faith, and nuance.Valerie shares what it was like to face that decision in real time - the physical pain, the emotional weight, and the lasting impact. She opens up about what followed: chemotherapy, loss, survival, recurrence, and ultimately building her family through surrogacy.This episode moves beyond political talking points and into lived experience. It challenges assumptions about abortion, highlights the realities of maternal health, and reminds us that these decisions are not theoretical - they are deeply human.💬 In This Episode• How Judaism teaches that the life and well-being of the mother takes precedence in pregnancy• A real story of abortion and cancer during pregnancy• What happens when treatment cannot wait• The physical and emotional reality of termination• How faith and personal values shape complex decisions• The medical realities often missing from public conversations• Why this issue is not simple within Christianity or any faith• How policy decisions impact real families and outcomes@valroosh🎧 Coming in Part 2In Part 2, Alexis speaks with Reverend jessica young chang and shares perspectives from clergy, theologians, and leaders wrestling with reproductive rights, faith, and care in their communities.Support the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

🎙️ 27. Mattie Mae Motl (Bible Scholar) - Loving Jesus Too Much to Let Him Be WeaponizedAlexis Rice sits down with Mattie Mae Motl, a Bible scholar, theologian, and PhD candidate studying the New Testament (with a focus on Romans), for a powerful and deeply clarifying conversation about biblical scholarship, deconstruction, and reclaiming faith.Mattie Mae Motl shares her story of growing up Southern Baptist, falling in love with Scripture, and pursuing rigorous academic study not to dismantle faith—but to protect it. Together, they explore the gap between academia and the church, the misuse of Scripture in modern culture, and why asking better questions doesn’t weaken faith - it deepens it.At the heart of this conversation is a bold truth: loving Jesus deeply means refusing to let Him be used as a tool for harm.💬 In This Episode• Growing up in conservative Christianity and loving the Bible deeply • What biblical scholars actually do (and what they don’t do) • Why context matters when reading Scripture • The difference between theologians and Bible scholars • Disputed vs. undisputed Pauline letters • Women in the early church and leadership in Romans 16 • Why 1 Timothy conflicts with Paul’s authentic voice • The gap between academia and the church • Elitism vs. anti-intellectualism in faith spaces • Why doubt and questions are essential to faith • The rise of toxic masculinity and the manosphere • How Scripture is misused to support patriarchy • What Jesus and Paul actually model about power and humility • Encouragement for women navigating faith and dating today • Finding healing in liturgical and inclusive church spaces • Why representation matters more than having all the answers👥 People/Resources Mentioned• Mattie Mae Motl: @mattiemaemotl  • Rachel Held Evans: @rachelheldevans • R. F. Kuang: @kuangrf📚 Topics to Explore Further• Biblical scholarship vs theology • How to read the Bible in historical context • Women in early Christianity • LGBTQ Christianity • Toxic masculinity and Christianity • Progressive Christianity • Queer theology • Christian nationalism#Christianity #deconstruction #ProgressiveChristianity #BibleScholar #BiblicalLiteracy #QueerTheology #WomenInMinistry #FaithAfterEvangelicalism #ChurchHurt #ReconstructionSupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

26. Justin Telthorst (Catholic, Empty Chairs) - A Gay Catholic on Faith, the Pope, and the Empty Seats in the ChurchAlexis sits down with Justin Telthorst, a gay Catholic, speaker, and creator of Empty Chairs @emptychairshome for a moving conversation about faith, identity, church hurt, and belonging inside the Catholic tradition.Justin shares his story of growing up Catholic, surviving conversion therapy, wrestling with conscience and church teaching, and finding his way back to a relationship with God rooted in honesty, love, and truth. Together, Alexis and Justin explore what it means to stay connected to Jesus when institutions wound, and why LGBTQ Christians are still showing up, still praying, and still making room for hope.💬 In This Episode• Growing up Catholic and falling in love with the Church• When faith and identity begin to feel in conflict• The harm of conversion therapy• Reclaiming a relationship with God after church hurt• The meaning behind Empty Chairs• Why LGBTQ Catholics are still showing up• Gatekeeping, conscience, belonging, and love of neighbor• How parents can respond when their child comes out• Catholics, Protestants, communion, and the tensions we inherit👥 People/Resources Mentioned• Justin Telthorst / Empty Chairs: @emptychairshome• The Pope: @pontifex• Brené Brown: @brenebrown• 1946: The Mistranslation That Shifted Culture: @1946themovie• Colby Martin / UnClobbered: @colbymartin• Church Clarity: churchclarity.org• Father James Martin: @jamesmartinsj• Outreach: @outrchcatholic• Father James Alison• Theology for the Unwanted: @theounwanted• GayExTrad: @gayextrad• New Ways Ministry: @newwaysministry• Fortunate Families: fortunatefamilies.com• Honoring the Gift• Equip / Pieter Valk• Building Catholic Futures: @buildingcatholicorg• Eve Tushnet: @eve_tushnet• Without Exception / David Palmieri: see outreach.faith and newwaysministry.org• Dr. Julia Sadusky: @drsadusky#Catholicism #Christianity #deconstruction #reconstruction #LGBTQChristianity #GayCatholic #ProgressiveChristianity #QueerTheology #ChurchHurt #Catholic #1946TheMovie #LGBT #LGBTQ #emptychairsSupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

25. Andrew Whitehead (Sociologist, Author, Christian) - American Idolatry: How Christian Nationalism Betrays the Gospel and Threatens the ChurchAndrew Whitehead joins Alexis Rice for a powerful conversation on Christian nationalism and the ways it shapes faith, identity, and public life.Alexis and Andrew explore what Christian nationalism actually is (and isn’t), how it shows up in everyday spaces, and why it can be so difficult to recognize - even for those inside the church.Drawing from American Idolatry, Andrew names the deeper forces at work and invites listeners to examine how power, fear, and identity can distort faith.American Idolatry: How Christian Nationalism Betrays the Gospel and Threatens the Church https://a.co/d/02lo2xUn💬 In This Episode• What Christian nationalism is - and why it’s often misunderstood • The “American flag in the sanctuary” test • Power, fear, and violence as central forces • Why Christian nationalism isn’t a binary - and how many people fall in the middle • The Seven Mountain Mandate and dominion theology • How questions - not arguments - can open real change • Why this movement impacts everyone, regardless of belief👥 People/Resources MentionedAndrew Whitehead: @ndrewwhitehead April Ajoy: @aprilajoy Star-Spangled Jesus Jemar Tisby: @jemartisby Kristin Kobes Du Mez: @kkdumez#Christianity #deconstruction #ChristianNationalism #FaithAndPolitics #ProgressiveChristianitySupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

🎙️ 24. Julie (Aakadewin-o Waawaashkeshi Kwe) Francella (Ojibwe, Batchewana First Nation) - We’re Still Here: Indigenous Wisdom, Empathy, & the Wounds Beneath HateAlexis sits down with Julie (Aakadewin-o Waawaashkeshi Kwe) Francella - an Ojibwe professor of Indigenous Studies, mental health professional, writer, artist, and @SiriusXM co-host, for a powerful conversation on Indigenous wisdom, trauma, empathy, and staying human in a brutal time.Julie shares how she walks between worlds without losing her center - rooted in Anishinaabe ways of knowing while navigating Catholic education, psychology, trauma work, and advocacy. Together, they explore what Christian listeners can learn about love of neighbor, care for the earth, humility, and shared humanity.They discuss Ribbon Skirt Day, Two-Spirit sacredness, survivors of sexual violence, parenting with curiosity, and why hate grows from fear, shame, pain, and the hunger to belong. Julie offers a framework: boundaries matter - but transformation requires understanding the wound beneath behavior.Also, who makes a surprise cameo?They also dive into: • Indigenous teachings on relationality and Mother Earth • What Christians misunderstand about colonization • How survivors calculate the risk of speaking up • Why Two-Spirit people were seen as sacred • What parents can teach their kids • Why curiosity matters more than certaintyThe episode closes with a reminder: hope is a practice. Indigenous people have been resisting for over 500 years - and they are still here.💡 Key Takeaways • Hate reveals disconnection, not irredeemability • Boundaries matter, but understanding interrupts harm • Indigenous peoples were never spiritually empty • Two-Spirit identity has long been sacred • Curiosity and humility are essential to healing • Hope is something we practice📚 Resources & Voices Mentioned • Julie Francella - The Fire I Keep on Substack - https://substack.com/@juliefrancella • We’re Still Here with Simon Moya-Smith @simonsaidtakeapic  on the @johnfugelsang Show: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-john-fugelsang-podcast/id1464094232 • Separation of Church and Hate by John Fugelsang • 1946: The Mistranslation That Shifted Culture - @1946themovie • Dolores Huerta @doloreshuerta#deconstruction #IndigenousWisdomSupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

🎙️ 23. Kristin Mockler Young (Non-Denominational Pastor) - The Other Side of CertaintyWhat if losing certainty isn’t losing your faith… but the beginning of a deeper one?Alexis sits down with Pastor Kristin Mockler Young @kristinmockleryoung, teaching pastor at Mosaic Church @mosaicclt, host of the Becoming Church podcast , and author of the upcoming book, The Other Side of Certainty, to explore what happens when the version of Christianity you were given no longer fits.Kristin shares her journey from lifelong “church girl” to pastor, all while deconstructing in real time. Together, they unpack what it means to hold onto Jesus while questioning everything else, and why doubt might not be the enemy we were taught it was.They explore how rigid certainty can limit our understanding of God, and how freedom, humility, and curiosity can open the door to a more expansive, honest, and deeply rooted faith. Kristin shares why she’s still a Christian, what she had to unlearn, and how she now pastors people far beyond the walls of a church.They also dive into: • What’s on the other side of deconstruction • How to find a healthy, safe church • Faith, politics, and holding compassion with conviction • Parenting kids through faith without rigid answers • Why curiosity and compassion matter more than controlThe episode closes with a powerful prayer for anyone feeling disenchanted, alone, or unsure where they belong.This episode is for anyone exploring: progressive Christianity, deconstruction, faith after evangelicalism, Christian nationalism, church hurt, or rebuilding faith.💡 Key Takeaways • Certainty is not the same as truth • Deconstruction can lead to deeper faith • You don’t have to abandon Jesus to question systems • Healthy faith makes space for questions • Compassion and curiosity can lead to transformation📚 Resources & Voices Mentioned • The Other Side of Certainty (pre-order): https://a.co/d/03RMF1CU • Rachel Held Evans @rachelheldevans • Pete Enns @peteenns • Sarah Bessey @sarahbessey • John Fugelsang @johnfugelsang • Meredith Ann Miller @meredithannmillerBecoming Church Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/becoming-church/id1606553800#Christianity #deconstruction #reconstructionSupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

🎙️ 22. Rev. Brandan Robertson (Progressive Pastor) - Queer & Christian: Reclaiming the Bible, Our Faith, and Our Place at the TableWhat if being queer and Christian was never the contradiction you were taught it was?Alexis sits down with Rev. Brandan Robertson, pastor, activist, and author of Queer & Christian, to explore how scripture has been misunderstood, weaponized, and reclaimed.Brandan shares his journey from a fundamentalist Baptist upbringing, through Bible college and conversion therapy, to becoming an openly gay pastor and leading voice in progressive Christianity. Together, they unpack what happens when faith both saves you and harms you, and how deconstruction can lead to something deeper.They dive into some of the most debated passages in the Bible, including Sodom and Gomorrah and 1 Corinthians 6, challenging long-held assumptions about LGBTQ Christianity and biblical interpretation. Brandan explains how mistranslations, cultural context, and power dynamics, not love, are at the center of many interpretations.This conversation reframes the Bible not as a rulebook, but as a complex, ancient library inviting curiosity, wrestling, and growth.They also explore: • Why progressive Christians must be louder about their faith • How queer people carry deep spiritual wisdom • The difference between certainty and truth • Why interpretation matters • How harmful theology impacts real livesThe episode closes with a powerful prayer for anyone who has felt rejected, afraid, or cut off from the love of God.This episode is for anyone exploring: progressive Christianity, LGBTQ Christianity, queer theology, biblical interpretation, deconstruction, faith after evangelicalism, or healing from church hurt.💡 Key Takeaways • The Bible is not univocal and contains diverse voices • Interpretation is unavoidable and matters deeply • Many anti-LGBTQ readings ignore historical context • Deconstruction can lead to deeper faith • God’s love is not something you can loseAbout Our Guest Rev. Brandan Robertson (@brandanrobertson) is a pastor, activist, and author of Queer & Christian. He is a PhD candidate in New Testament at Drew University (@drewuniversity).📚 Resources & Voices Mentioned•Queer & Christian: https://www.brandanrobertson.com/queer-christian-book • Dan McClellan @maklelan • Brian McLaren @brianmclaren • Don Lemon @donlemonofficial • James Talarico @jamestalarico • Rocky Roggio @1946themovie • Rachel Held Evans @rachelheldevansSupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

🎙️ 21. Johanna Ta (Catholic) - Faith, Culture, & The Golden RuleWhat happens when two friends from different Christian traditions choose curiosity over debate?Alexis sits down with her longtime friend Johanna Ta, a Filipino Chinese American Catholic, mother of three, and Bay Area professional, to explore faith, culture, and the real differences - and surprising similarities - between Catholicism and Protestantism.Johanna shares her story of being baptized as a newborn during a life-threatening health crisis, growing up in Catholic school, and how her faith has evolved through motherhood, cultural identity, and lived experience.Together, they unpack common misconceptions about Catholics, the role of the Pope, and what it actually means to live a Christ-like life in today’s world.They also explore: Catholic vs Protestant beliefs and practices Faith as culture, identity, and community  Parenting through the lens of the Golden Rule  Immigration, empathy, and political Christianity Johanna offers a grounded and deeply human perspective on faith:“Who am I to judge? The best I can do is live in a way that brings others along in a positive light.” As the conversation turns to the state of Christianity today, they wrestle with rising division, racism, and the concept of “toxic empathy,” returning again and again to the core of Jesus’s teaching - love your neighbor.Johanna reflects:“Maybe this is our test… how do we continue to live Christ-like despite all these challenges?” They also discuss the global Catholic Church, the leadership of @vaticannews and Pope Leo (@pontifex), and the cultural expression of faith in unexpected places - including the viral “raves of peace” by @padre.guilherme.This episode is not a debate - it’s a bridge. A conversation rooted in humility, curiosity, and the belief that we can learn from each other across traditions.💡 Key Takeaways• Catholics and Protestants share more common ground than many realize • Faith is deeply tied to culture, family, and community • Being Christ-like is about daily practice, not perfection • Empathy is central to the teachings of Jesus • Curiosity can replace defensiveness in conversations about faithAbout Our GuestJohanna Ta is a Filipino Chinese American Catholic, mother of three, and Bay Area professional. Her faith is shaped by culture, community, and a deep commitment to living out the Golden Rule.🌍 The Sacred Slope is now in 60+ countries and 1,300+ cities, sharing diverse voices of faith beyond one dominant lens.Support the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

🎙️ 20. Jeremy Jernigan (Former Non-Denominational Megachurch Pastor) - The Edge of the InsideWhat happens when the church that formed you becomes the place that wounds you?Alexis sits down with Jeremy Jernigan @jeremyjernigan, former megachurch pastor, now part of a Mennonite community, host of Cabernet and Pray and Rebuilding Faith, and author of The Edge of the Inside, to explore what it means to deconstruct faith without losing Jesus.Jeremy shares his journey out of evangelical megachurch leadership, including the breaking point many experienced as white evangelical support for Trump exposed a disconnect between the teachings of Jesus and what was being lived out.They unpack deconstruction, post-evangelical faith, church hurt, and the cost of using your voice when your community would rather you stay silent. Jeremy shares what it was like to lose his job, relationships, and community—and how that loss led to a more honest, compassionate faith.They explore why many are not leaving Jesus, but leaving systems rooted in certainty, control, and power. Jeremy introduces “the edge of the inside”—a space for those who still love Jesus but no longer fit in the center—and how Mennonite theology is helping him heal.This episode includes a powerful prayer for anyone who feels alone, displaced, or hasn’t been prayed over in a long time.This episode is for anyone navigating deconstruction, progressive Christianity, LGBTQ Christianity, church hurt, Christian nationalism, or faith after evangelicalism.💡 Key Takeaways • Deconstruction can be the fruit of faith • Many left church because it no longer looked like Jesus • Certainty and control often replace compassion • There is space to follow Jesus outside the center • Healing can happen in new spiritual communitiesAbout Our Guest Jeremy Jernigan @jeremyjernigan is a former megachurch pastor, now connected with a Mennonite community. He hosts Cabernet and Pray and Rebuilding Faith and is the author of The Edge of the Inside.🎧 Podcasts Cabernet and Pray @cabernetandpray Rebuilding Faith📖 Book The Edge of the Inside: https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/edge-of-the-inside👤 Voices Mentioned Richard Rohr Tim Whitaker @timwhitakerspeaksSupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

🎙️ 19. Podcastathon 2026 - IJM, Pastor Sarah (UCC), Rev. Joseph Yoo (Episcopal), Pastor Joe Smith (Post-Evangelical), Rev. Joe Graves (United Methodist)This episode means a lot to me. I wanted to highlight one of my favorite non-profits along with ministries from beloved pastors returning to The Sacred Slope to share the incredible work churches are doing. - Alexis RiceAlexis brings together global and local expressions of justice in this special Podcastathon (https://podcasthon.org/, @podcasthon_en) episode - featuring International Justice Mission (IJM) (one of my favorite organizations) and the return of some of your favorite Sacred Slope pastors.Alexis speaks with Miguel Lau, Global Senior Officer, Church Partnerships at International Justice Mission (IJM) to explore human trafficking, forced labor, and violence against the poor - and how justice systems can be transformed to protect millions.🌍 International Justice Mission (IJM): https://www.ijm.orgThen, some of your favorite pastors across the U.S. return to The Sacred Slope to share about some of their church ministries in their communities.Pastor Sarah (UCC - New Mexico) IG: @disorganized.religion Church: https://ucccogs.org/leadership/pastor-sarah/ Casa Q (LGBTQ youth shelter): https://www.casaq.orgMutual Aid Albuquerque: IG @abqmutualaidYouTube Episode on The Sacred Slope: https://youtu.be/pwzPGpcdVsA?si=LkYFIuOpX8P1W-W8Rev. Joseph Yoo (Episcopal - Pearland, TX) IG: @joseph.yoo Church: https://www.mosaicpearland.org/ Impact Offering (school lunch debt relief)YouTube Episode on The Sacred Slope: https://youtu.be/ODnIUKfRdpU?si=Nv8sD5lP20CAlx9VPastor Joe Smith (Post-evangelical - Gainesville, FL) IG: @therealjoe.smith Church: https://shiftgnv.com/all-things-shift Santa Fe College Food Pantry Pride Community Center of North Central Florida Unspoken Treasure Society: https://www.unspokensociety.org/YouTube Episode on The Sacred Slope: https://youtu.be/TwspO3sPlsc?si=wKfEnxj1XR3DSuYyRev. Joe Graves (United Methodist - Ohio) IG: @josephdavidgraves Church: https://cityviewcolumbus.org/staffFeminine Resources Free Store: https://cityviewcolumbus.org/feminine-resources-free-storeMothers of Murdered Children: https://www.mothersofmurderedcolumbuschildren.com/YouTube Episode on The Sacred Slope: https://youtu.be/dXsz93ron-Q?si=1gdg5M7RuXJU1_Y0Across every conversation, one theme emerges: we cSupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

🎙️ 18. Rocky Roggio (Director, 1946: The Movie) - 1946: The Year the Word “Homosexual” Entered the BibleOne mistranslation changed theology, policy, families, and the lives of millions of LGBTQ people.Alexis sits down with Rocky Roggio @rockyroggio, director of the award-winning documentary 1946: The Movie @1946themovie, to explore the year the word “homosexual” first appeared in an English Bible and how that translation decision reshaped theology, culture, and public policy for generations.They unpack the historical research behind the film, including discoveries in the Yale archives surrounding the 1946 Revised Standard Version Bible translation. Rocky explains how one translation decision helped shape decades of church teaching and influence modern debates around LGBTQ Christianity and Bible translation.Rocky also shares the personal story behind the film, including the decision to include her own father, a minister, in the documentary. Their conversations reveal how theology is never abstract - it shows up in families, churches, and real relationships.Alexis and Rocky discuss why the film resonates with audiences across the political and theological spectrum and why understanding Bible translation history, queer theology, progressive Christianity, and Christian nationalism matters right now.This episode is for anyone - Christian or not, queer or not - who cares about truth, history, and how sacred texts are interpreted and sometimes weaponized.💡 Key Takeaways• The word “homosexual” first appeared in an English Bible in 1946• Bible translation decisions can shape theology and culture for generations• Scripture can inspire justice or be used to justify harm• Biblical literacy matters in conversations about Christian nationalism and LGBTQ inclusionAbout Our GuestRocky Roggio is the director of 1946: The Movie, an award-winning documentary investigating how the word “homosexual” first entered the English Bible and how that translation shaped modern debates around LGBTQ Christianity.🎬 Watch the filmBest way to support the filmmakers (independent streaming platform): https://watch.eventive.org/1946themovie🌍 Projects & Organizations MentionedThe Living Wall of Love - Jarko’s project featured at World Pride Amsterdam https://growingwalloflove.comMaking Things Right (LGBTQ Christian reconciliation resource) https://makingthingsright.orgClips used with permission from Rocky Roggio of 1946Support the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

🎙️ 17. Pastor Kristian A. Smith (Liberation Theology) – The Courage to Question Your AnswersAlexis Rice sits down with Pastor Kristian A. Smith — pastor, author, educator, public theologian, and host of Holy Smokes: Cigars and Spirituality — for a deeply honest and pastoral conversation about doctrine, certainty, doubt, and what it means to rebuild faith with integrity.Kristian leads The Faith Community, a digital church centered around curiosity, justice, and what he calls Greatest Commandment Theology — the idea that Jesus’ call to love God, love neighbor, and love self should guide how we interpret everything else in our Christian tradition.Together Alexis and Kristian explore why doctrine is not the same thing as scripture, how the Bible has historically been used to justify radically different moral positions, and why losing religious certainty can feel like grief. Kristian shares why doubt is not the enemy of faith and why love must remain the center of theology.Kristian closes the episode with a powerful pastoral prayer for listeners who may not have been prayed over in a long time.💡 Key Takeaways• Doctrine often reflects interpretation, not absolute certainty • “The Bible says” is often shorthand for “my tradition interprets it this way” • Losing religious certainty can bring real grief • Doubt is not the opposite of faith - it is part of faithAbout Our GuestPastor Kristian A. Smith is a pastor, author, educator, and public theologian. He is the founding pastor of The Faith Community and host of Holy Smokes: Cigars and Spirituality.IG: @thekristianasmith📚 Books, People & Resources MentionedKristian A. Smith — IG: @thekristianasmith The Faith Community — IG: @tfc.virtual Holy Smokes: Cigars & Spirituality — IG: @holysmokesmovementBooks: Breaking All the Rules – An Ancient Framework for Modern Faith & Question your answers: https://www.kristianasmith.comDan McClellan — IG: @maklelan Pete Enns — IG: @peteenns Rachel Held Evans — IG: @rachelheldevansFrederick Buechner — theologian and author https://www.frederickbuechner.comMartin Luther King Jr. — pastor and civil rights leader https://kinginstitute.stanford.edu#Christianity #deconstruction #OpenAndAffirming #LiberationTheology #FaithAfterEvangelicalism #ProgressiveChristianity #TheSacredSlopeSupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

🎙️ 16. Tripp Fuller (Theologian, Pastor & Keeper of Chickens) - Deconstruction Can Be Holy, Healing, and Even JoyfulAlexis Rice sits down with Tripp Fuller - host of Homebrewed Christianity, founder of Theology Beer Camp, theologian, pastor, and author for a rich, funny, deeply pastoral conversation about faith after certainty.Together they explore why deconstruction does not have to mean losing God, how harmful theology can be unlearned, why questions can be sacred, and how people can reconnect with the divine without fear, shame, or rigid literalism.This episode is for anyone rethinking faith, grieving harmful theology, raising kids after evangelicalism, or longing to believe that the sacred slope can still lead somewhere beautiful.💡 Key Takeaways• Deconstruction can be painful - but also freeing, joyful, and holy• Certainty is not the same thing as faith• Centering prayer can help people reconnect with God after spiritual harm• Scripture can be read with wonder, honesty, and less fear• Kids need room for questions, ritual, and belonging - not rigid answers• The Spirit may be present even in the questions that unsettle usAbout Our GuestTripp Fuller is a theologian, pastor, podcast host, and founder of Homebrewed Christianity and Theology Beer Camp.IG: @trippfullerHomebrewed Christianity: @theologynerdTheology Beer Camp: @theologybeercamp📚 Books, People & Resources MentionedGod After Deconstruction by Tripp Fuller & Thomas Jay Oord:https://a.co/d/03BF15TPTheology Beer Camp 2026- I'll be there- are you coming?Kansas City, MissouriOctober 8–10, 2026https://www.homebrewedchristianty.com/theology-beer-camp/Thomas Jay Oord — IG: @thomasjayoordBrian McLaren — IG: @brian_mclarenRachel Held Evans — IG: @rachelheldevansPete Enns — IG: @peteenns#Deconstruction #ProgressiveChristianity #Christianity #FaithAfterEvangelicalism #Exvangelical #Theology #CenteringPrayer #OpenAndRelationalTheology #TheSacredSlope #TrippFullerSupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

🎙️ 15. Rabbi Lexi Erdheim (Judaism) & Rev. Joel Simpson (Methodist) – When Faith Leaders Protect the Vulnerable TogetherAlexis Rice sits down with Rabbi Lexi Erdheim and Rev. Joel Simpson—two faith leaders from different traditions whose friendship models curiosity, respect, and shared moral responsibility.Together they explore what interfaith relationships can teach us about protecting the vulnerable, listening across real differences, and showing up for neighbors in moments of crisis.This conversation is about friendship, moral courage, and the kind of world that becomes possible when faith traditions work side by side to protect human dignity.💡 Key Takeaways • Interfaith relationships deepen empathy • Faith traditions share a call to protect the vulnerable • Scripture can be weaponized—or inspire compassion • Real change begins with relationships across difference • Curiosity and humility strengthen collaboration • Faith leaders can help communities resist fear and polarizationAbout Our GuestsRabbi Lexi Erdheim is the Associate Rabbi at Temple Beth-El in Charlotte, NC. Ordained at Hebrew Union College and a graduate of Barnard College, she works at the intersection of Jewish life, public policy, and interfaith organizing.Temple Beth-El Charlotte IG/FB/TikTok: @tbeclt YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/jewtubecharlotteRev. Joel Simpson is a Methodist pastor at First United Methodist Church in Taylorsville, NC and a doctoral student at Duke University. His work connects faith, community organizing, and advocacy for vulnerable communities.IG: @joelrsimpson FB: @joel.simpson.98 Substack: @joelsimpson📚 People & Organizations MentionedSiembra NC — IG: @siembranc Carolina Jews for Justice — IG: @carolinajewsforjustice Repairers of the Breach — IG: @repairersofthebreach Rev. Dr. William Barber — IG: @revbwilliambarber2 Jonathan Wilson-Hartgrove — IG: @jonathanwilsonhartgrove Shane Claiborne — IG: @shaneclaiborne Barbara Brown Taylor — https://barbarabrowntaylor.com/ Rabbi Sandra Lawson — IG: @rabbisandralawsonDuke University — IG: @dukeuniversity Candler School of Theology (Emory) — IG: @candler_school Hebrew Union College — IG: @hebrewunioncollege Barnard College — IG: @barnardcollegeSupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

14. William Gibson (Church of Scotland) – When Christianity Gets Co-Opted by PowerWhat does American Christian nationalism look like… from Scotland?In this episode, Alexis Rice is joined by William Gibson - a Scottish church historian and soon-to-be minister in the Church of Scotland - to zoom out of the American bubble and name what many outside the U.S. can see so clearly: when Christianity gets fused with nationalism, it becomes a weapon.William doesn’t just critique - he offers language, history, and hopeful resistance: collective action, ecumenical courage, and a faith that refuses empire.If you’ve been watching “Christianity” used to justify cruelty and thinking, This cannot be Jesus… this conversation is for you.🎙️ About Our Guest William Gibson is a PhD student in Theology & Religious Studies at the University of Glasgow and a candidate for ministry in the Church of Scotland. His work focuses on modern church history, mission, and the way faith intersects with power, economics, and community life - including trade unions, labor, and Christian ethics. Find William: @williamgibsongla 💬 In This Episode • How American Christian nationalism is perceived globally • Why “Christian symbolism” at nationalist rallies is alarming • The Church of Scotland: broad, Presbyterian, Reformed - without U.S.-style fundamentalism • Christianity as culturally mediated (and why that matters) • Capitalism, greed, solidarity - and the Bible’s uncomfortable clarity • Bonhoeffer, Niemöller, and what Christian resistance really costs • A prayer for the spiritually tender and spiritually tired📚 Resources + Verified Instagram Handles • Church of Scotland - @churchofscotland • The Iona Community - @ionacommunity • Wild Goose Publications (Iona books) - @ionabooks • Awake, Emerging, and Connected (publisher) - @scm_press • Student Christian Movement (UK) - @studentchristianmovement • World Communion of Reformed Churches - @reformed_communion • Trinity College Glasgow - @trinitycollegeglasgow • Lamorna Ash - @lamornaaash • The Sacred Slope - @thesacredslope #Christianity #deconstruction #OpenAndAffirming #MentalHealth #ChurchOfScotland #Scotland #ProgressiveChristianity #ExvangelicalSupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

13. Jared Byas (The Bible for Normal People) – Taking the Bible Seriously But Not LiterallyAlexis sits down with Jared Byas - co-host of The Bible for Normal People (along with Pete Enns) and author of Love Matters More — to explore what it really means to take Scripture seriously. For many of us raised in evangelical spaces, we were taught that taking the Bible seriously meant taking it literally. But what happens when reading closely actually raises more questions? When you see the “wrinkles” and the humanity in the text? When certainty starts to crack?💬 In This Episode• “Taking the Bible seriously will inevitably lead you to not take it literally” • The “wrinkles” in Scripture - and choosing intimacy over perfection • Why “speaking the truth in love” often becomes a power move • Paul’s black swan moment and theological transformation • Fear vs. love in Christian formation • Rebuilding trust in the Bible after church harm • Parenting with curiosity instead of control • For the spiritually tender: you’re not backsliding - you’re paying attention👥 People/Resources MentionedJared Byas: @jaredbyasThe Bible for Normal People: @biblefornormalpeoplePete Enns: @peteennsCurious Faith Media: @curiousfaithmediaRachel Held Evans: @rachelheldevansLove Matters More by Jared Byas: https://www.jaredbyas.comGod's Stories as told by God's Children: https://a.co/d/087F8ZFNGod's Stories as told by God's Children for Adults: https://a.co/d/0fteC7QR#Christianity #deconstruction #reconstruction #ChristianSupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

12. Rachel Held Evans (Braving the Truth) with Sarah BesseySarah Bessey joins Alexis Rice for a special release-day episode honoring Braving the Truth by Rachel Held Evans - out now.Alexis and Sarah read from Rachel's book, reflect on holy anger, spiritual wilderness, life after evangelicalism many are living in real time, and why Rachel’s voice feels less like nostalgia and more like necessity.Braving The Truth from @HarperCollins https://www.harpercollins.com/products/braving-the-truth-rachel-held-evans💬 In This Episode• Reading: “Life After Evangelicalism” (originally posted Nov 14, 2016) • Sarah on editing Rachel’s work: grief, time travel, and why this book feels like a gift “from the past for the future of the church” • Reading: “Why I Can’t Stay Angry Even Though I Want To” • Women, power, patriarchy — and why Rachel’s work was truly threatening (because it was making change) • For the spiritually tender: you belong, and “there’s always room for more”👥 People/Resources MentionedRachel Held Evans: @rachelheldevans Sarah Bessey: @sarahbessey Evolving Faith: @evolvfaith Glennon Doyle: @glennondoyle Jen Hatmaker: @jenhatmaker Jeff Chu: @jeffchu Matthew Paul Turner: @matthewpaulturner Brian McLaren: @brianmclaren Pete Enns: @peteenns Dan McClellan: @maklelan🎙 Credits: “Come Thou Fount” used with permission by Sara Groves @grovesroad#Christianity #deconstruction #RachelHeldEvans #BravingTheTruthSupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

11. Seth A. Cain (Non-Denominational) - Deconstructing While LeadingIn this raw conversation, Alexis Rice sits down with Seth A. Cain - a former non-denominational lead pastor (14+ years) whose ministry came to a breaking point when he was asked to resign after being open to performing a same-sex wedding.Before we begin: to the pastors who are deconstructing - especially in American non-denominational spaces - I see you. When a pastor deconstructs, it’s not only grief. It can be livelihood on the line: reputation, housing, healthcare, decades of relationships, and the identity you built your life around.The Sacred Slope is listened to in 50+ countries because Christianity doesn’t belong to one nation, one political party, or one expression. This is a space for the curious, the deconstructing, and the reconstructing - where LGBTQ+ inclusion is safe, women in leadership are affirmed, and we believe God loves all people with dignity and worth.💬 In this episode: • How Seth was “preaching love and acceptance” without being direct — until a real-life moment demanded integrity • The phone call that changed everything: “Just pencil me in and I’ll figure out the rest” • The cost of saying yes - and the heartbreak of “all are welcome” with a no-fly zone • “Transcend and include,” deconstruction in real time, and why certainty can feel like “pillars in quicksand” • A closing prayer for anyone who feels unseen, isolated, or rejected by church spaces👤 About Our Guest Seth A. Cain is a writer, speaker, and former pastor. “Everything is like Seth Andrew Cain,” including Instagram, TikTok, and Facebook. (@sethandrewcain)🔗 Links & Resources (Books + Seth Online)Seth links (all platforms): https://linktr.ee/sethacain“But How’d You Get There?” (YouTube channel / playlist): https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCio30AwkmXzEwhAYoDtUKYATo Give the Universe a Hug (book): https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FMNRGBDCLife Is Beautiful (book): https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09WH56B9F#Christianity #deconstruction #OpenAndAffirming #MentalHealth #ProgressiveChristianity #ProgressiveClergy #ChurchHurt #Exvangelical #LGBTQ #WomenInMinistrySupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

🎙️ 10. Rev. Dr. Sarah Townes aka Pastor Sarah of Disorganized Religion (UCC) — Faith That Resists EmpireRev. Dr. Sarah Townes is helping thousands rediscover a Christianity rooted not in power — but in conscience, community, and courage.In this episode, Alexis Rice sits down with UCC pastor, organizer, and digital ministry leader Rev. Dr. Sarah Townes, known online as Pastor Sarah of @disorganized.religion, to explore a version of Christianity many people were never taught: Christian resistance — protecting the vulnerable, building community, and telling a truer story than empire tells.Drawing from scripture, church history, and modern organizing, Pastor Sarah shows how Christian resistance spans centuries — from early church movements to global resistance stories to modern mutual aid and faith-rooted organizing.Together, Alexis and Sarah explore today’s spiritual hunger for faith spaces where certain questions are not dismissed as "doubts", dignity is protected, and belief is lived through action. They also discuss digital church spaces — from livestream congregations to Discord-based communities — and how online faith spaces are becoming lifelines for people healing from church harm, navigating deconstruction, or seeking belonging outside traditional church structures.Stay through the end for Pastor Sarah’s blessing for those rebuilding faith after spiritual harm.👤 About Our Guest Rev. Dr. Sarah Townes is a United Church of Christ pastor serving Church of the Shepherd (Albuquerque, NM). She helps people explore progressive Christianity, deconstruction, and justice-rooted faith through digital ministry.🔗 Resources Mentioned*The Bible For Normal People @biblefornormalpeople*1946 the movie @1946themovie with Director @rockyroggio *Checkpoint Church (Digital / Discord church) https://www.checkpointchurch.com/@checkpointchurch*#ProgressiveClergy*Riverside Church (NYC Digital Ministry) https://www.trcnyc.org/@riversidechurchnyc*Convergence Digital Ministry Fellowship https://convergenceus.org/digital-ministry-fellows/@convergenceus*James Talarico @jamestalarico on @stephencolbert (both Christians, Stephen- Catholic, James- United Methodist, both progressive)🕊️ Stay to the end for Pastor Sarah’s blessing for a reconstructing faith.Support the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

9. David Clayton - (He's not MAGA, please don't scroll. He's got a moral compass and a soul.)Alexis Rice speaks with David Clayton - a powerhouse of conviction who has broken through on social media, creator of the Official Empathy Tour, and candidate running for North Carolina’s 5th Congressional District - about faith, political power, empathy, and living with moral clarity in a time of cultural and spiritual noise.David has built a massive audience across social platforms by speaking directly about corruption, representation, dignity, and the human cost of systems that prioritize power over people. He says what many people are thinking and his messages are a breath of fresh air. In this conversation, he shares the life experiences that shaped his worldview, including personal loss, caregiving, and work supporting veterans experiencing homelessness.Together, Alexis and David discuss the misuse of religion in politics, the difference between faith and religious power structures, and why many Americans - across political identities - feel unrepresented by current leadership. David also shares why empathy, service, and accountability shape how he views faith and public leadership.This episode is for listeners who feel politically or spiritually disoriented, for those questioning how faith is used in public life, and for anyone searching for voices grounded in integrity - for those who still believe - as David says- in having a moral compass and a soul.⚠️ Trigger Warning: This episode contains discussion of suicide, loss, and grief. Listener discretion is advised. If you or someone you know is struggling, call or text 988 (U.S. Suicide & Crisis Lifeline) or visit 988lifeline.org. You are not alone.💡 Key Takeaways• Faith as belief vs faith used for political gain• Why representation requires lived empathy• How trauma can shape compassion and service👤 About Our GuestDavid Clayton is running for North Carolina’s 5th Congressional District and is known for direct, values-driven conversations about faith, politics, and culture. He has built a large cross-platform audience by speaking candidly about corruption, representation, and moral responsibility in leadership. His work focuses on veteran advocacy, government accountability, and restoring dignity to public policy conversations.🔗 David Clayton - Official Links & Social Handles🌐 Campaign Website https://www.clayton4nc.com🔗 Link Hub https://direct.me/empathytour📱 Social Media Instagram (Empathy Tour): @officialempathytour Instagram (Campaign): @davidclayton4nc Bluesky: @empathySupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

🎙️ 8. Rev. Darrell Goodwin (UCC) — The God of Our Wildest Dreams (Spotlight Re-Release)There are conversations that inform you… and conversations that do something to you. This one did something to me.After speaking with Rev. Darrell Goodwin, I felt blessed—my soul filled, stretched, challenged, and hopeful. His words carry rare pastoral tenderness and prophetic clarity. This conversation is profound not because it is loud, but because it names what so many people have lived and rarely hear spoken with this much truth and compassion.This episode is for every person told “not you,” and for anyone who still longs for Jesus but doesn’t trust the building anymore. It is for the wounded, the deconstructing, and those discerning faith after church harm.Rev. Goodwin explores how faith can expand—not by abandoning God—but by releasing versions of God rooted in fear, shame, or exclusion.He challenges churches and progressive spaces alike: if we say “come as you are,” we must mean it—and create space for people to heal enough to believe us.If your early faith trained you to fear God, he offers a liberating invitation: sometimes you must stop believing in the God of limitation to encounter the God of your wildest dreams.💡 Key Takeaways • Queer people often carry profound spiritual gifts—and the church wounds them early • Deconstruction often begins in heartbreak and can lead to freedom • Scripture invites wrestling, not control • “Come as you are” must be practiced, not performed • The Church needs both welcome and depth • Liberation is lived through right relationship—with self, God, and others • God knocks—God does not kick the door in👤 About Our Guest Rev. Darrell Goodwin is the Executive Conference Minister for the Southern New England Conference of the United Church of Christ (UCC), overseeing 600+ congregations. He is the first openly queer Black person to serve in this role within the UCC and is completing doctoral work at San Francisco Theological Seminary.His ministry focuses on liberation theology, racial justice, LGBTQ+ inclusion, and healing from religious harm while reconnecting people to life-giving faith.🔗 Connect + Learn More Rev. Darrell Goodwin — IG: @revdgoodwin Southern New England Conference (UCC) — IG: @sneucc United Church of Christ — IG: @unitedchurchofchristSupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

🎙️ 7. Cody Deese (Spiritual Collective Pastor) The Pastor This Moment Has Been Waiting ForIn this urgent and culturally relevant episode of The Sacred Slope, Alexis Rice is joined by Cody Deese @codydeese - pastor of the Vining’s Lake spiritual collective @viningslake and author of Discovering Your Internal Universe: The Unexpected Good News About Anxiety, Panic, and Fear.At a time when Christianity is increasingly entangled with political power and nationalist ideology, this conversation explores what it means to follow the teachings of Jesus in a moment defined by division, fear, & institutional mistrust. Alexis & Cody examine the historical dangers of religion merging with empire and why Christian nationalism represents a political ideology rather than a theological one.The episode also moves into deeply personal territory, addressing anxiety, religious trauma, & the long arc of healing - intellectually, neurologically, emotionally, & somatically. Together, they explore how both love & suffering can become catalysts for transformation, & why many people are simultaneously deconstructing faith, national identity, inherited narratives about power- & ending up with a faith that is more beautiful & expansive than ever before.✨ Ep Themes• Christianity and power in modern America• Revelation as social and spiritual critique• Faith deconstruction beyond doctrine• Anxiety, trauma, and body-based healing• Community as a stabilizing force in cultural disruption• Hope and moral agency in destabilizing historical moments🕊️ The episode concludes with a spoken benediction from Pastor Cody for listeners navigating political anxiety, church trauma, spiritual isolation, or moral fatigue - offering language of dignity, compassion, and collective responsibility.📚 Resources & Voices Mentioned • Discovering Your Internal Universe: The Unexpected Good News About Anxiety, Panic, and Fear by Cody Deese, Forward by Rob Bell @realrobbell: https://www.eerdmans.com/9780802885401/discovering-your-internal-universe/ • Vining’s Lake Spiritual Collective: https://www.viningslake.org • Richard Rohr Podcast: Another Name for Everything https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/another-name-for-every-thing-with-richard-rohr/id1452609613• Pete Enns: @peteenns • The Bible for Normal People: @thebiblefornormalpeople • Cory Booker: @corybookerSupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

🎙️ 6. April Ajoy (Leaving Christian Nationalism, Keeping Jesus) – Star-Spangled JesusAlexis Rice speaks with author and commentator April Ajoy (@aprilajoy) about Christian nationalism, deconstruction, and what it costs to leave certainty without leaving faith.April grew up in white evangelical, Pentecostal spaces where theology, politics, and identity were tightly bound. In this conversation, she describes how Christian nationalism forms people from the inside—how doubt is framed as spiritual failure, how loyalty is enforced, and how questioning can cost you community, family, and belonging.Together, Alexis and April discuss January 6 as a turning point for many former evangelicals, the pressure Christians face around voting and abortion, and why Christian nationalism is not fringe but structurally embedded in American political and religious life. April also names what comes after deconstruction: uncertainty, grief, and a less coercive faith rooted in the teachings of Jesus rather than fear or power.This episode is for listeners trying to understand how Christianity became a vehicle for exclusion and control—and for those still inside Christian spaces who sense something is off but don’t yet have language for it.💡 Key Takeaways• Why deconstruction is often involuntary and destabilizing• How Christian nationalism disguises itself as “Biblical truth”• Why abortion bans fail to reduce abortions, and what does• The difference between Christianity and Christian nationalism• What remains when certainty collapses👤 About Our GuestApril Ajoy is the author of Star-Spangled Jesus, co-host of The Tim & April Show Podcast (@timandaprilshow), and hilarious social media influencer. Her work examines Christian nationalism, evangelical political formation, and what accountability and faith can look like after leaving authoritarian religious systems.📚 Resources & Mentions📖 Star-Spangled Jesus – April Ajoy https://www.amazon.com/dp/1668016284🎙 The Tim & April Show – @timandaprilshow 🟡 The New Evangelicals – @thenewevangelicals 🗣 Tim Whitaker – @timwhitakerspeaks 📘 The Bible for Normal People – @thebiblefornormalpeople 📖 Pete Enns – @peteennsSupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

🎙️ 5. Rev. Katie Nakamura-Rengers (Episcopal) – Standing in Awe: Faith Beyond CertaintyIn this deeply grounding episode of The Sacred Slope, Alexis Rice is joined by Reverend Katie Nakamura-Rengers (@katienakamurarengers)—an Episcopal priest, musician, and bridge-builder whose ministry invites us to slow down, release certainty, and rediscover faith rooted in presence and relationship. Reverend Katie was recommended to The Sacred Slope by Reverend Joseph Yoo (@joseph.yoo), and you will know why once you listen. In a moment when Christianity is often pressured to be louder, faster, and more confident, this conversation offers a counter-witness: awe. Drawing from Anglican and Anglo-Catholic traditions, Reverend Katie reflects on how liturgy, silence, music, and embodied worship form us not through rigid rules, but through mystery and relational love.Alexis and Katie explore why Jesus resists moral “protocols,” how God is encountered in the space between people—especially where power shifts—and why faith doesn’t require having all the answers to be deeply alive.✨ In this conversation, we explore: • Why faith doesn’t need certainty to be faithful • How stillness and silence shape us in a distracted age • Why rules exist for people—not people for rules • Finding God in the space between us • What embodied, sensory worship offers deconstructing Christians • Why awe is a spiritual practice, not an intellectual failure🕊️ Reverend Katie closes the episode with a prayer for listeners who may not have been prayed over in a long time—especially those who feel spiritually tender, tired, or unseen.💛 A note to our listeners: If this episode helped you breathe or loosen your grip on certainty, please share it with someone who may need that permission right now. Following, rating, and reviewing the podcast helps The Sacred Slope continue reaching those seeking faith grounded in love, not fear.#Christianity #Deconstruction #OpenAndAffirming #ProgressiveChristianity #Exvangelical #FaithAfterEvangelicalism #WomenInMinistry #QueerTheology #MentalHealth #TheSacredSlopeSupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

🎙️ 4. Dr. Aaron Higashi (Bible Scholar) – Serving Up Scripture: How to Interpret the Bible for Yourself and OthersWhat if the Bible doesn’t actually present one unified doctrine of hell — and what if the answers you were given weren’t actually grounded in the text itself?In this rich, accessible conversation, Alexis Rice dives deep with Dr. Aaron Higashi — biblical scholar, teacher, and TikTok theologian — about how Scripture actually works when you take it seriously: historically, linguistically, culturally, and personally.If you’ve ever wondered why Christians disagree on hell, why pastors sometimes warn about Bible scholars, or how you can read the Bible without letting someone else’s interpretation do your thinking for you — this episode is for you.What we cover• Why the Bible does not contain one settled doctrine of hell • The original words behind “hell” — Sheol, Hades, Gehenna, Tartarus — and why they matter • How cultural and linguistic translation shapes theology • Why people fear biblical scholarship — and how scholarship can actually liberate you • The role of interpretation, bias, and your own voice in reading Scripture • The relationship between pastors, scholars, and lay peopleKey takeaways• “The Bible is a multi-vocal text” — written across cultures, times, languages, and perspectives. • No single biblical language term maps perfectly onto the English idea of “hell.” • Interpretation always involves the interpreter — no one escapes bias, even if they claim to. • Biblical scholars aren’t trying to take faith away — they’re trying to give access to tools to read the Bible well. • You don’t have to accept a received interpretation — you are capable of engaging Scripture thoughtfully.About our guestDr. Aaron Higashi is a biblical scholar and teacher whose work bridges academic theology and accessible real-world faith conversations. He serves as “nerd in residence” at @thebiblefornormalpeople, and brings humor, clarity, and depth to issues people care about most.Resources & People Mentioned🔖 Books & Study Materials 📘 Serving Up Scripture: How to Interpret the Bible for Yourself and Others — by Dr. Jennifer Garcia Bashaw & Dr. Aaron Higashi (Out Jan 27, 2026) Pre-Order/Order: https://a.co/d/ihDX060👩‍🏫 Other Voices & Scholars ✨ @thebiblefornormalpeople — community bridging scholarship and everyday readers ✨ @jgbashaw — Dr. Jennifer Garcia Bashaw ✨ @maklelan — Dan McClellan, Biblical Scholar: Data OvSupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

🎙️ 3. Rev. Dr. Chris Davies (UCC) – When the World Feels Like It’s on Fire: A Raw Conversation with a Pastor for the SoulIn this deeply vulnerable and pastoral episode of The Sacred Slope, Alexis Rice welcomes back Rev. Dr. Chris Davies, a reverend, theologian, and executive minister in the United Church of Christ. What unfolds is not a traditional interview, but a sacred conversation about grief, fear, joy, and faith in a moment when the world feels unbearably heavy.🌍 The world is so chaotic right now If you’re scrolling social media looking for catharsis, Rev. Dr. Chris Davies has it for you. This episode offers soul care in a time of collective grief—when outrage cycles, political fear, and spiritual exhaustion have left so many feeling lost and alone.Alexis and Chris reflect on how their relationship began during the COVID and George Floyd era, when a single act of pastoral care—holding space for a stranger—became a catalyst for The Sacred Slope. Together, they explore what it means to tend the soul when institutions fail and anxiety is high.✨ In this conversation, we explore: • What real pastoral care looks like beyond “hot takes” • Why Christian nationalism is an empire project—not the Gospel • Why joy is not escapism, but resistance • How queer communities survive through celebration and belonging • Why exvangelicals are uniquely equipped for this moment • How faith can remain rooted in love, not fear or purity testsChris reminds us that faith has survived fascism, empire, and collapse before—and God is still found in the cracks.🕊️ Voices & References• United Church of Christ – @ucc.coalition• Rev. Darrell Goodwin – @revdgoodwin • The Daily Show – @thedailyshow • RuPaul's Drag Race – @rupaulsdragrace • Dan Savage – @dansavage • Sharon McMahon – @sharonsaysso • Find Hope Now – https://findhopenow.org💛 A note to our listeners: If this conversation helps you, please share this episode with someone who may need it right now. Please also subscribe, follow, rate, and review the podcast so The Sacred Slope can continue reaching those searching for care, clarity, and community.#Christianity #Deconstruction #OpenAndAffirming #ProgressiveChristianity #Exvangelical #FaithAfterEvangelicalism #ChristianNationalism #QueerTheology #WomenInMinistry #MentalHealth #TheSacredSlopeSupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

🎙️ 2. Pastor Kimberly Bulgin (Seventh-day Adventist) – The Sisters Stay Dropping Gems: Reclaiming Women’s Stories in ScriptureAlexis Rice welcomes Pastor Kimberly Bulgin—Seventh-day Adventist trailblazer, global leader, musician, and author of The Sisters Stay Dropping Gems: What Women in the Bible Teach Us About Life, Love, and Relationships. Pastor Kim shares what it actually costs to challenge patriarchy from the inside, why women’s stories in Scripture have been flattened into stereotypes, and how Jesus’ treatment of women dismantles modern purity culture and hierarchy.Pastor Kim also opens up about being among the first women ordained in her region—celebration and pain held together—and offers language that will set many listeners free: “When you break glass ceilings, the glass can cut you.”✨ In this episode, we talk about: • The resistance (and real-world backlash) women face in ordination • Why congregations need spiritual preparation to receive women pastors • What Seventh-day Adventists are known for: Sabbath, second Advent, health, and service • “Modern-day Rahabs” and why the church must stop treating women as problems to solve • Re-reading the Woman at the Well with complexity, dignity, and liberation • What Jesus’ public, unashamed posture toward women reveals about God • Stick around until the end for a closing prayer for anyone who hasn’t been prayed over in a long time📖 Featured Book The Sisters Stay Dropping Gems — www.kimberlybulgin.com/shop.Exclusive promo code for listeners/viewers of The Sacred Slope.  Those that enter the promo code SACREDPOD will get a 10% discount off physical copies of Pastor Kim's book.🎵 Music Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin, and Sean Spence💌 Nominate a guest (pastor, priest, artist, or everyday person anywhere in the world): Alexis @ thesacredslope.com#Christianity #deconstruction #MentalHealth #womeninministry #womenintheBible #SeventhdayAdventist #purityculture #churchhurt #faith #Jesus #womenleadershipSupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

ITS THE SEASON TWO PREMIERE!🎙️ 1. Rev. Dr. Mark Sandlin (Presbyterian) – ProgressiveChristianity.org & The Christian Left: Busting Myths About Progressive ChristianityIn this episode of The Sacred Slope, Alexis Rice is joined by Rev. Dr. Mark Sandlin (@marksandlin), Presbyterian minister, writer, and co-founder of ProgressiveChristianity.org (@progressivechristianity) and The Christian Left (@the_christian_left). Mark has spent decades helping people recover a Christ-centered faith rooted in love rather than fear, shame, or authoritarian control.Together, Alexis and Mark dismantle the biggest misconceptions that keep so many people trapped—or pushed out—of Christianity altogether, especially those raised in conservative or fundamentalist spaces.✨ In this conversation, we myth-bust 6 common beliefs:1. Progressive Christians don’t believe the Bible Why taking Scripture seriously is not the same as taking it literally—and how historical and literary tools deepen faith.2. Progressive Christianity isn’t “real” Christianity How white American evangelicalism came to dominate the narrative—and why Christianity has always been bigger, older, and more diverse.3. Progressive Christians ignore sin and holiness How fear, shame, and hell were weaponized—and what sin looks like when understood as anything that separates us from love and community.4. Faith and science can’t coexist Why evolution, the Big Bang, and the cosmos don’t threaten belief in God—and can actually reveal deeper beauty and connection.5. Progressive Christianity is just politics in disguise Why justice, care for the vulnerable, and love of neighbor were never apolitical—and why calling them “political” protects power.6. There’s no salvation or afterlife in progressive faith What salvation looks like without fear-based evangelism—and what Jesus was actually saving people from.📚 Resources Mentioned • The Bible for Normal People – @thebiblefornormalpeople. Podcast: https://thebiblefornormalpeople.com/podcast/ • Jared Byas – @jaredbyas • Pete Enns – @peteenns • Richard Rohr – Podcast: Another Name For Everything https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/another-name-for-every-thing-with-richard-rohr/id1452609613 • Brian McLaren – @brianmclaren Podcast: Learning How to See: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/learning-how-to-see-with-brian-mclaren/id1532685433 • Diana Butler Bass – @dianabutlerbass • Barbara Brown Taylor – @barbarabrowntaylor • Dan McClellan – @maklelan Podcast: Data Over Dogma: https://podcasts.apple.com/uSupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

🎙️  35. Ike Ndolo (Catholic, Singer-Songwriter) - God in the Rubble, Honest Hymns & Freedom SongsAlexis Rice welcomes Ike Ndolo @ikendolo, a Nigerian-American Catholic worship leader and singer-songwriter whose voice refuses silence in the face of suffering. This episode is a powerful, honest conversation about faith with legs—faith that tells the truth, stands with the oppressed, and sings even when the world is on fire. Ike reflects on global Christianity, Catholic tradition, liberation theology, and the cost of speaking out—especially in this season.We talk about God in the Rubble—a lament, protest, and prayer written in response to Gaza—and how worship can hold grief, rage, and hope at the same time. Ike also shares the stories behind Won’t He Do It, Sons and Daughters, City of God, and the heart of his forthcoming work Honest Hymns & Freedom Songs. Along the way, we explore music as resistance, salvation history as a living drama, and why collective liberation matters.💡 Key TakeawaysWhy scripture read in full tells a story of liberation, not dominationHow Catholic liturgy resists cherry-picked theologyMusic as protest, prayer, and communal healing👤 About Our Guest Ike Ndolo has spent his entire adult life in ministry, leading worship across continents while writing songs rooted in justice, dignity, and radical welcome. His sound blends Americana, folk, and rock, influenced by Bob Marley, Ben Harper, Bob Dylan, and Marvin Gaye. His work invites listeners into faith that is honest, embodied, and alive.🎶 Songs & Music FeaturedGod in the Rubble — Ike NdoloWon’t He Do It — Ike NdoloSons and Daughters — Ike Ndolo (co-written with Matt Maher @mattmahermusic) Featuring Emoni Wilkens @emoniwilkinsCity of God — Ike NdoloHonest Hymns & Freedom Songs — upcoming record🎙 Mentions & InfluencesJames Talarico @jamestalarico on God’s cry for justiceInspirational singer-songwriters: Sara Groves @grovesroad, Derek Webb @derekwebb, Semler @gracebaldridge, Jon Guerra @iamjonguerra🔗 Follow & Support IkeSupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

🎙️ 34. David Hayward (The Naked Pastor) – Challenging Power, Holding Grief, and Sharing the Gospel Through ArtHighly encourage you to watch this episode on YouTube or Spotify to see art from The Naked Pastor we talk about! https://youtu.be/U2okGOpqGrA?si=_vb3UU346wydnpcVAlexis Rice welcomes David Hayward, the Canadian artist known globally as The Naked Pastor @nakedpastor, for a courageous, deeply human conversation about faith, power, grief, art, and what it actually means to follow Jesus right now.A former pastor of nearly 30 years, David’s minimalist cartoons have become lifelines for millions navigating deconstruction, church harm, 2SLGBTQIA+ inclusion, political theology, and spiritual independence. In this episode, he reflects on leaving institutional ministry, the grief of losing both parents, and why art can sometimes tell the truth faster — and more honestly — than sermons ever could.Together, Alexis and David explore where Jesus consistently shows up: not in the center of power, but on the margins — among the excluded, the grieving, and those still brave enough to love indiscriminately.💡 Key Takeaways• Why “indiscriminate love” is at the heart of Jesus’ teachings — and why it’s never been popular • The difference between church style and spiritual substance (high church vs. low church) • How charismatic religious leadership bleeds into politics — and why that matters • Why 2SLGBTQIA+ inclusion exposes the deepest fears of patriarchy • Art as a spiritual practice that bypasses defenses and speaks directly to the heart • Grief, loss, and why David painted a man “floating in his own tears” • Why de-centering ourselves may be the most faithful work we can do👤 About Our GuestDavid Hayward is a Canadian artist, former pastor, author, and visual theologian. Known as The Naked Pastor, his daily cartoons challenge religious harm, patriarchy, and exclusion while re-centering faith around dignity, compassion, and love. His work is shared globally and has helped countless people reclaim faith — or heal from it — beyond institutional walls.🎨 The Naked Pastor Art & Prints (Shop) https://nakedpastor.com/collections/all🌐 Website (Home Base) https://nakedpastor.com📖 Books by David Hayward Available wherever books are soldSupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

🎙️ 33. BONUS: If You Haven’t Been Prayed Over in a Long TimeThis labor of love is my Christmas gift to you. I wasn’t planning to make this episode, but if it helps even one person this Christmas season, it was worth it.Over the past 7 months, I invited pastors, priests, and reverends from around the world to pray for those who haven’t been prayed over in a long time. This episode is a compilation of those prayers, woven together with music from singer-songwriters featured in Season One. There are some guests sprinkled in that will be in Season Two!Beloveds, you are loved just as you are. You matter to God. You have infinite worth, and you are needed. My hope is that this prayerful meditation offers healing, peace, and clarity—and invites you to listen for the Holy Spirit as you reflect, remember, and rest.May you leave with a little more courage, a little more clarity, and a peace that surpasses understanding. Merry Christmas. - Alexis RiceClergy and Artists FeaturedBishop Mariann Edgar Budde (Episcopal) @bishopbuddePastor Josh Scott (Progressive Baptist/Post-Evangelical) @josh_a_scottRev. Helen (Anglican, Church of England) @revhelenptPastor Paul Drees (Lutheran) @pastorpauldreesRev. Darrell Goodwin (UCC) @revdgoodwinFather Lizzie (Episcopal) @rev.lizzieRev. Gerlyn (Anglican) @gerlynhenryRev. Joseph Yoo (Episcopal) @joseph.yoo Rev. Joash P. Thomas (St. Thomas/Anglican) @joashpthomasBishop Guðrún Karls Helgudóttir (Lutheran, Iceland) @gudrun.biskup_Music - Jon Guerra — Citizens @iamjonguerraRev. Dr. Chris Davies (UCC) @jesuslovesdinosPastor Joe Smith (Non-denominational) @therealjoe.smith Rev. Elizabeth Ashman Riley (Episcopal) @therevrileyPastor Jeremy Steele (United Methodist) @skeptic.pastorMusic - Sara Groves — Hello, Lord @grovesroadRev. Joe Graves (United Methodist) @josephdavidgravesPastor Kim (Seventh-day Adventist) @_kimberlybulginMusic-  Semler — Faith @gracebaldridgeRev. Dr. Mark Sandlin (Presbyterian) @marksandlinPastor Seth Cain (Non-denominational) @sethandrewcainMusic- Derek Webb — I Was There Too, It Won't Be This Way Forever @derekwebbRev. Roberto Che Espinoza, PhD (Baptist) @drrobertochePastor Zach Lambert (Post-Evangelical) @zachwlambertRev. Dr. Ginny Brown Daniel (UCC)Rev. Katie (Episcopal)Music - Malynda Hale — God and His Gun @malyndahale Rev. Amber Evans (Episcopal)Rev. Dr. Chris Davies (UCC) Music - The Sacred Slope Theme - Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin, Sean SpenceSupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

🎙️ 32. Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde (Episcopal) – We Can Be BraveIt’s not every day you get to sit down with one of your heroes. Bishop Budde has shaped my spiritual life - and my willingness to be brave - in these uncertain times. I hope this episode, my Christmas gift to you, fills you up with the same. - Alexis RiceWhat does Christian courage look like when fear dominates public life - and love still calls us to show up with dignity?In this episode of The Sacred Slope, Alexis is joined by Mariann Edgar Budde, Episcopal Bishop of Washington, D.C., and author of the New York Times bestselling book We Can Be Brave, now adapted for young readers and out now from Penguin Young Readers.Many first encountered Bishop Budde during the National Prayer Service at Washington National Cathedral, when she looked directly at President Trump and made a plea for mercy. In this conversation - and through her book - she places that moment in context, showing how bravery is not a single act, but a lifelong practice shaped by faith, humility, and love.✨ In this conversation, we explore:Why affirming another person’s humanity is moral workMercy, forgiveness, and accountability - without bypassing harmHow bravery is practiced over a lifetime✨ An excerpt from Bishop Budde’s sermon at the National Prayer Service at Washington National Cathedral:“Let me make one final plea, Mr. President. Millions have put their trust in you. And as you told the nation yesterday, you have felt the providential hand of a loving God. In the name of our God, I ask you to have mercy upon the people in our country who are scared now. There are gay, lesbian, and transgender children in Democratic, Republican, and Independent families - some who fear for their lives. And the people - the people who pick our crops and clean our office buildings; who labor in poultry farms and meatpacking plants; who wash the dishes after we eat in restaurants and work the night shifts in hospitals - they may not be citizens or have the proper documentation, but the vast majority of immigrants are not criminals. They pay taxes and are good neighbors. They are faithful members of our churches and mosques, synagogues, gurdwaras, and temples. I ask you to have mercy, Mr. President, on those in our communities whose children fear that their parents will be taken away, and that you help those who are fleeing war zones and persecution in their own lands to find compassion and welcome here. Our God teaches us that we are to be merciful to the stranger, for we were all once strangers in this land. May God grant us the strength and couSupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

🎙️ 31. Rev. Elizabeth Ashman Riley (Episcopal) – Rage Prayers & What to Expect at an Episcopal ChurchWhat if the holiest prayer you could pray wasn’t polite at all—but a full-body, honest, angry, “Are you seeing this, God?!”In this episode of The Sacred Slope, Rev. Elizabeth Ashman Riley (@therevriley), Episcopal priest & author of Rage Prayers, invites us to bring our whole selves—grief, fury, doubt, and all—to God. We talk about queer-affirming faith, the beauty of small Episcopal communities, and what newcomers can expect when they step inside an Episcopal church for the first time.✨ In this conversation, we explore: • Elizabeth’s call story in a tiny Alaskan village • 20+ years of Episcopal debates around queer inclusion • Why “Jesus loves you, but…” is not the Gospel • The surprising, viral origin of Rage Prayers • How to write your own rage prayers (and why God can handle them) • What it’s really like to attend an Episcopal church—rituals, liturgy, community • The gift of small, intergenerational churches where people actually notice you • A closing prayer for anyone who hasn’t been prayed over in a long time✨ What to Expect at an Episcopal Church If you’re coming from non-denominational or megachurch spaces, an Episcopal church may feel smaller, quieter, more ancient—and more intimate. Expect ritual and scripture, weekly communion, candles, responses, and a community that knows your name. Expect belonging without condition, space for questions, and a faith shaped by love over fear.💡 Key takeaways • God is not fragile—your full emotions and doubts are welcome • Rage can clarify what matters most • Queer-affirming, justice-centered churches exist • You deserve a church that doesn’t confuse “neutrality” with love • Faith can be rebuilt with honesty, curiosity, and courage📚 Resources Mentioned • Rage Prayers – Elizabeth Ashman Riley • Father Lizzie McManus-Dail – God Didn't Make Us to Hate Us @rev.lizzie • April Ajoy – Star Spangled Jesus – @aprilajoyr • Erin Hicks Moon – I’ve Got Questions – @erinhmoon • Church Clarity – @churchclarity • The New Evangelicals – @thenewevangelicals• Theology Beer Camp - @theologybeercamp• Tripp Fuller - @trippfuller•  Adam Clark - @adamclkSupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

🎙️ 30. Jen Hatmaker (Relaxed in the love of Jesus) and AwakeAlexis Rice welcomes NYT Bestselling author, podcaster, and spiritual trailblazer Jen Hatmaker (@jenhatmaker) for a tender, fierce, and raw conversation about her new memoir Awake. It's about the collapse of her marriage, and the systems that helped build the house that fell. Together they unpack patriarchy, purity culture, codependency, women’s leadership in the church, LGBTQIA+ inclusion, and how to survive the holidays with people whose politics and theology break your heart.Grab a copy of the book for a friend this holiday season!💡 Key Takeaways• Why deconstructing toxic systems is faithful work - and why some churches and platforms simply won’t change • A blessing and a help for parents when a child comes out, and how to build a safe home • How to navigate holiday tables with MAGA relatives: what you can’t control, when to draw a boundary, and why clear is kind (THX @BrenéBrown) • A gentler Jesus: relaxed, non-fragile, present inside and outside institutions - and what it means to co-create “the good life” right now👤 About Our Guest Jen Hatmaker is a longtime Christian author, speaker, and podcast host whose work has walked millions of women through authenticity, agency, and spiritual evolution. She’s the author of Awake and Fierce, Free, and Full of Fire, host of the For the Love podcast, and a loud, unapologetic advocate for women’s leadership and LGBTQIA+ inclusion in the church.📚 Resources & Mentions 📖 Awake: A Memoir – Jen Hatmaker https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Awake/Jen-Hatmaker/9781668083680📘 Fierce, Free, and Full of Fire – Jen Hatmaker https://jenhatmaker.com/fierce-free-and-full-of-fire/🎙 For the Love with Jen Hatmaker – Podcast Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/for-the-love-with-jen-hatmaker-podcast/id1258388821🌈 Church Clarity – finding clear, affirming churches (women in leadership & LGBTQIA+ inclusion) @churchclarity📗 Codependent No More – Melody Beattie (on codependency & responsibility for our own healing) https://www.melodybeattie.com/codependentnomore📖 Renovation of the Heart – Dallas Willard (on spiritual formation & the Support the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

🎙️ 29. Pastor Josh Scott – (Non-Denominational, Progressive, Open & Affirming) The Kind of Pastor I Wish I’d Had Growing Up What if the pastor you grew up with had made room for your questions instead of your fear? In this episode, Pastor Josh Scott (@josh_a_scott) shares how a kid raised in conservative Free Will Baptist Appalachia—where reading the NIV was considered “progressive”—became one of the most trusted voices in today’s progressive, Open & Affirming, non-denominational Christian movement.Josh grew up in a tiny holler on the Kentucky/West Virginia border with King-James-Only theology, fear-based sermons, and a faith built on certainty. But the loss of his grandfather inside a church conflict cracked that certainty open and launched his lifelong journey of re-imagining Christianity around justice, compassion, and Jesus at the margins.In this conversation, we explore:Growing up fundamentalist and slowly unraveling that worldviewWhy his progressive convictions come from Scripture, not in spite of itHow he teaches his kids about gender, pronouns, and diverse families with simple Christian compassionWhy he refuses to become the “progressive version” of the fundamentalism he leftWhat to look for in a safe, affirming churchHow he pastors online without losing his soul to trollsA prayer for anyone who hasn’t been prayed over in a long time💡 Key takeaways • Deconstruction often begins with grief, not rebellion • Christianity was never meant to be about control • A Christ-shaped faith always widens the circle of belonging • You can hold convictions without dehumanizing anyone📚 Resources Mentioned✨ Brian D. McLaren – Life After Doom, Faith After Doubt, Do I Stay Christian? Instagram: @brian_mclaren✨ Marcus J. Borg – The Heart of Christianity, Meeting Jesus Again for the First Time✨ John Dominic Crossan – The Historical Jesus, God and Empire✨ Rob Bell – Love Wins, What We Talk About When We Talk About God Instagram: @realrobbell✨ Jay Bakker – Fall to Grace, Revolution Church, One Punk Under God Instagram: @jaybakker✨ Vote Common Good – Faith-rooted civic engagement Instagram: @votecommongood✨ Doug Pagitt – Pastor, author, Executive Director of VCG Instagram: @dougpagittSupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

🎙️ 28. Rev. Joash P. Thomas (Saint Thomas Christian / Evangelical Anglican tradition) – The Justice of Jesus & Decolonizing Our FaithWho taught me my theology - and who is missing from the table? From his roots in the ancient St. Thomas Christian tradition in India, through white American evangelicalism and Georgia Republican politics, to ministry in Canada, Rev. Joash shares how reclaiming his Global South perspective transformed his understanding of Jesus, justice, and the global church.What we cover• Why it’s “dangerous to only learn from one branch of the church” • The 2,000-year story of St. Thomas Christians • How colonization reshaped Western theology and our picture of justice • Re-centering the table: why Eucharist once sat at the heart of Christian worship • Seeing Christ on the margins—survivors of trafficking, refugees, the poor • Deconstruction vs. decolonization, and why justice is good news for bodies and souls • Being “politically agnostic” except on behalf of our marginalized neighbors • A pastoral blessing and the Prayer of St. Francis for listeners who need prayer💡 Key takeaways• It’s dangerous to only learn from one wealthy, powerful branch of the church• Christianity is global and ancient; it never belonged exclusively to the West• Deconstruction without decolonization can recreate the same power structures• Jesus is already on the margins; we’re invited to recognize and join him there⛪ About our guestRev. Joash P. Thomas (@joashpthomas) is a Saint Thomas Christian with deep Anglican roots, born and raised in India within one of the world’s oldest Christian communities, tracing back to the apostle Thomas. He holds two master’s degrees from Dallas Theological Seminary and a master’s in political management from George Washington University. A former political consultant and international human rights worker, he now serves in Hamilton, Ontario, helping the church recover a justice-centered, decolonized vision of the gospel in his book The Justice of Jesus.📚 Resources mentioned• The Justice of Jesus – Rev. Joash P. Thomas (@joashpthomas) • James H. Cone – The Cross and the Lynching Tree (Black Liberation Theology) • Dr. Willie James Jennings – The Christian Imagination: Theology and the Origins of Race (theology, race, ecclesiology) • Gustavo Gutiérrez – A Theology of Liberation (founder of Liberation Theology; Peruvian Catholic theologian) • Dr. Jamar Tisby (@jemartisby) – The Color of Compromise, How to Fight Racism, historian of race, religion & justice • Support the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

🎙️ 27. Mike Maeshiro (Ex-evangelical pastor) – God Made Me Gay: Healing from Spiritual HarmGrowing up evangelical, Mike was taught that being gay was sinful, dangerous, and something God would eventually “fix.” Today, he’s an ex-evangelical pastor helping thousands heal from spiritual trauma and rediscover a God who delights in them. In this episode, Mike shares his story with honesty, humor, and courage — from coming out, to losing his church community, to rebuilding a life rooted in joy, integrity, and love.We explore how harmful theology takes root, what harm-reduction can look like for queer youth still inside evangelical spaces, why parents should celebrate (not merely tolerate) their queer kids, and how allies can use their voices to protect those most vulnerable.What we cover• Growing up fundamentalist & knowing he was gay at age 10• Why “pray the gay away” theology creates lifelong trauma• Harm-reduction for queer teens still stuck in non-affirming churches• The healthiest Christian response when your child comes out• How to begin deconstructing fear-based, authoritarian theology• Finding safer, affirming churches—and spotting red flags• Why allies must be loud in the comments & in real life• What gives Mike hope for the future of Christianity💡 Key takeaways• Queer kids need celebration and safety — not neutrality• Evangelicalism is a constructed system; leaving it is not leaving God• Affirming theology saves lives• Allies speaking up publicly is essential for closeted youth• You can be queer and Christian — many pastors and scholars already are⛪ About our guestMike Maeshiro (@mikemaeshiro) is an ex-evangelical pastor, emotional-health coach, and writer. He is currently releasing his memoir God Made Me Gay on Substack, helping people recover from spiritual harm and reconnect to themselves, to joy, and to love.📚 Resources mentionedAffirming theology & deconstruction • 1946: The Movie (@1946themovie) • Dan McClellan (@maklelan) – Data Over Dogma • Unclobbered – Colby Martin (@colby_martin) • Brian McLaren (@brianmclaren) – A New Kind of Christianity • Pete Enns (@peteenns) – The Bible Tells Me So • J.S. Park (@jspark3000) – As Long As You Need • Eucontamination: Disgust Theology and the Christian Life – Paul & Billie HoardQueer pastors, priests & musicians previously featured on The Sacred Slope • Rev. Dr. Chris Davies (@jesuslovesdinos, Episode 4) • Rev. Darrell Goodwin (@Support the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

🎙️ 26. Dr. Jennifer Garcia Bashaw (Bible Scholar) – Wrestling with Scripture Beyond LiteralismWhen “Bible-believing” meant literalism and inerrancy, many of us thought that was the only Christian option. Dr. Jennifer Garcia Bashaw—New Testament scholar, professor, and church practitioner—opens the door to a bigger, older, more beautiful Christian story. We unpack why inerrancy & literalism are relatively recent (1800s) theologies, how the Bible’s genres invite deeper reading, what Revelation is actually doing, and how multiple atonement models live inside the tradition.What we cover• Inerrancy & literalism as modern control theologies • Reading the Bible as literature: genres + context • Atonement models 101: moral exemplar, Christus Victor, satisfaction → penal substitution • Revelation as apocalyptic resistance literature (and why the rapture isn’t in Revelation) • Practical tips for finding Jesus-centered churches today • Learning to think in stories not isolated verses • Jennifer’s forthcoming Serving Up Scripture (with @abhigashi)💡 Key takeaways• Wrestling with Scripture is ancient & holy work • The rapture is a 19th-century doctrinal system, not a Revelation doctrine • Center Jesus when doctrines conflict • You’re not alone — many scholars make Scripture accessible without dumbing it down⛪ About our guestDr. Jennifer Garcia Bashaw (@jgbashaw) is a New Testament scholar & professor who also serves in congregational ministry — bridging academy + church with clarity, courage, and compassion.📚 Resources mentioned@thebiblefornormalpeople (Bible Scholar Pete Enns @peteenns + former pastor Jared Byas @jaredbyas) Homebrewed Christianity @theologynerd (host @trippfuller) @maklelan – Bible Scholar and podcast host, Data Over Dogma @abhigashi – co-author and Bible Scholar @crosspointecary – church where Jennifer preaches @derekwebb – songwriter mentioned🔎 Episode highlights“Nowhere does the Bible say you must read this literally or that every word is inerrant.” “Genres matter. Reading apocalyptic like a newspaper guarantees you’ll miss the point.” “If a church talks more about the inerrancy of the Bible than the way of Jesus, pause.” “Think in stories, not isolated proof-texts.”Support the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

🎙️ 25. Bishop Guðrún Karls Helgudottir (Church of Iceland) – A Nation Led by Women, and a Bishop Who Says Queer People Should Be Safe in ChristianityWhen a nation is led by women at the highest levels - the President, the Prime Minister, the Mayor of Reykjavík, the National Police Commissioner, the Minister of Foreign Affairs, and the Bishop of Iceland - something becomes visible: women in power isn’t an exception, it’s normal. Into that context steps Bishop Guðrún - the second woman ever to serve as Bishop of Iceland - who tells LGBTQ+ people that God’s creation is good — and that we are holy creations of God.Together, Alexis & Bishop Guðrún dive into:• Iceland’s 1975 Women’s Strike & gender equality milestones• From harm to repair - why churches MUST affirm LGBTQ+ people• The Bishop’s civic role - national funerals, ceremonies, moral voice• Mental health, suicide, and walking with people in suffering• A prayer in Icelandic for listeners who left church but not God💡 Key Takeaways🌈 Safety, dignity, and belonging for queer people is Christian discipleship - not deviation. 👩‍⚖️ When women lead at every level of national life, equality becomes ordinary - not symbolic. 🧭 The Bishop’s role is not partisan power - it is moral presence and public courage. 🕊️ True pastoral leadership walks with people in suffering, not above them.⛪ About Our GuestBishop Guðrún Karls Helgudottir (@gudrun.biskup_) is the Bishop of Iceland - the spiritual head of the Church of Iceland (@kirkjan.is), a national Lutheran church interwoven into Icelandic cultural life, history, and state ceremonies. The Bishop’s office carries both sacred and civic weight: accompanying presidents and prime ministers at moments of national significance, offering moral clarity in public crises, and serving as a pastoral presence when the country gathers in grief, remembrance, or celebration.Bishop Guðrún is the second woman ever to serve as Bishop of Iceland. Her pathway includes parish leadership in Sweden and Iceland, and theological formation at the University of Iceland and the Lutheran School of Theology in Chicago. Known internationally for her clear advocacy for LGBTQ+ inclusion, Bishop Guðrún represents a model of Christian leadership rooted not in fear or exclusion, but in dignity, equality, and the conviction that God’s creation is good.📚 Resources MentionedIceland Church Pride clip: https://www.instagram.com/reel/DNBnMnFMtN8/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_linkBishop Guðrún Trans rights clip: Support the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

🎙️ 24. Rev. Gerlyn Henry (Anglican Church of Canada) – Communion over Control: The Faith that FreesWhen faith becomes about control instead of communion, something sacred is lost. Reverend Gerlyn Henry (@gerlynhenry)—an Indian-Canadian Anglican priest whose social media content about Jesus, justice, and women in ministry has reached millions and gathered hundreds of thousands of followers—joins Alexis Rice to talk about a faith that liberates instead of dominates.Together, Alexis & Gerlyn dive into:• “Your first food is the Bible” — how a childhood rhythm of morning scripture shaped her vow never to mock someone for who they are • Deuteronomy’s grapes — living so there’s enough for those who come after • Canada→ India → Canada — how pluralism, study, and migration form her theology • Anglican 101 — common prayer and common table, not a doctrinal contract • Embodied faith — why Anglicans bow when the cross passes and how to make the sign of the cross: “From the top of my head to the bottom of my soul … and then: what is my call in this?” • Women in the collar vs. The Handmaid’s Tale @handmaidsonhulu Christianity — what happens when empire dresses up as faith • Pastors online — how clergy can use digital spaces to amplify inclusion • A closing prayer for everyone who feels judged or spiritually homeless💡 Key Takeaways❤️ The gospel is liberation, not control 🌿 Worship extends into housing and feeding neighbors 👩‍⚖️ Women in collars are a vital part of the church 🌈 Pluralism is not a threat to Jesus⛪ About Our GuestRev. Gerlyn Henry (@gerlynhenry) is an Anglican priest in the Diocese of Toronto and rector of Holy Wisdom—a parish formed from three historic congregations during the pandemic. She holds an M.Div. from Columbia Theological Seminary and lives in intentional community with asylum seekers. Her online ministry reaches hundreds of thousands across platforms and millions through viral reels about a Jesus of welcome, dignity, and courage.📚 Resources MentionedGod Didn’t Make Us to Hate Us — Rev. Lizzie McManus-Dail | IG: @rev.lizzieRev. Paul Drees | IG: @pastorpauldreesThe New Evangelicals | IG: @thenewevangelicals “The Tim & April Show” — @timandaprilshow | @timwhitakerspeaks | @aprilajoyPraying the Psalms — Walter BrueggemannConsider the Birds — Debbie BlueTexts of Terror — Phyllis Trible“The Reuben Option” — Allan Boesak (sermon on refusing neutrality)Support the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

🎙️ 23. John Fugelsang (Aspiring Christian) – Separation of Church & HateAlexis Rice welcomes comedian, author, and radio host John Fugelsang (@johnfugelsang) — whose blend of humor, history, and theology cuts through America’s culture-war fog. His NYT bestseller Separation of Church and Hate challenges both the weaponization of Christianity and the silence that enables it.With his trademark wit, John dismantles the TV-made binary, tracing how power keeps hijacking Jesus’ message—from the Crusades to cable news—and why faithful Christ-followers still choose empathy over empire.💡 Key Takeaways • Why corporate media platforms outrage, not nuance • Proof-texts un-weaponized — Luke 22 & Matthew 25 in context • Love as resistance: turning the other cheek ≠ turning off your brain • Beyond binaries: global, diverse, love-driven Christianity👤 About Our Guest John Fugelsang is a comedian, actor, and commentator; host of Tell Me Everything on SiriusXM Progress (Ch. 127); and author of Separation of Church and Hate. He’s appeared on The Daily Show, CNN, MSNBC, HBO & Fox News—bringing scripture and satire into public life.📚 Resources & Mentions 📖 Separation of Church and Hate — Simon & Schuster: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Separation-of-Church-and-Hate/John-Fugelsang/9781668066898 🎙 Tell Me Everything with John Fugelsang — SiriusXM Progress 127 🎧 The John Fugelsang Podcast — Apple / Spotify 🕊 @itskristinahart — creator of “love your neighbor Christian, not a storm the Capitol Christian” shirt: https://www.bonfire.com/store/kristina-hart 📘 Bishop John Shelby Spong — Rescuing the Bible from Fundamentalism: https://www.harpercollins.com/products/rescuing-the-bible-from-fundamentalism-john-shelby-spongjohn-shelby-spong 🎧 The Nonviolent Jesus Podcast with Father John Dear: https://www.ncronline.org/news/nonviolent-jesus-podcast-john-dear 🪶 We’re Still Here — weekly Indigenous voices segment featuring Simon Moya-Smith (@simonsaidtakeapic) & Julie Francella (@juliefranciella): Support the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

🎙️ 22. Pastor Joe Graves (United Methodist) – The Progressive Planter: Finding (and Building) the Church You Wish ExistedWhen so many are walking away from church, Pastor and Author Joe Graves (@josephdavidgraves) is reimagining what it can be—clear, inclusive, justice-rooted, and grounded in grace. From launching free stores and violence-reduction funds to writing The Progressive Planter, Joe shares how “clear is kind,” why progressives must move from gatekeeping to organizing, and how we can all help build the kind of faith community we’ve been longing for.Together, Alexis & Joe dive into:Why “clear is kind”: finding churches that state values up front (no bait-and-switch)How the United Methodist Church holds a wide umbrella—largely contemporary, liturgical, and LGBTQ+ affirmingDeconstruction diversity: when one person still prays with hands laid on, and another has stopped praying altogetherMental health as ministry—covering therapy sessions, normalizing care, and breaking stigmaHow City View Church became an incubator for justice through Little Bottoms Free Store and the Columbus Violence Reduction FundThe Methodist theology of prevenient grace—God’s love already everywhereWhy progressives must stop gatekeeping and start organizing around shared values💡 Key TakeawaysGrace is everywhere—before, within, and beyond the walls of church.Empathy is the heart of the gospel. The incarnation itself is “cosmic empathy.”Progressives can disagree theologically yet work together for justice.⛪ About Our Guest Rev. Joe Graves, (he prefers Joe) is pastor of City View Church in Columbus, Ohio—a progressive United Methodist congregation formed through an innovative merger. He has helped launch or support 10+ new ministries across the Midwest and founded justice-centered initiatives including Little Bottoms Free Store and the Columbus Violence Reduction Fund. 🌐 Website: joegraves.org 🏛️ Church + sermons: cityviewcolumbus.org📚 Resources MentionedGod Didn’t Make Us to Hate Us — Rev. Lizzie McManus-Dail | IG: @rev.lizzieThe Bible for Normal People (podcast) | IG: @biblefornormalpeople @peteenns, @jaredbyasThe Progressive Planter:  A Handbook for Ecclesial Entrepreneurs — Joe Graves (Abingdon Press) https://www.abingdonpress.com/product/9781791040116/New InSupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

🎙️ 21. Malynda Hale (African Methodist Episcopal Church – AME) – Being the Good NewsAlexis Rice welcomes artist-activist, writer, and Executive Director at The New Evangelicals @TheNewEvangelicals, Malynda Hale (@malyndahale) — raised in the joy and lift of the Black church. African Methodist Episcopal (AME) church is one of the oldest historically Black denominations in the U.S., born out of resistance, faith, and community. Malynda’s story is a beautiful window into this tradition. This conversation is a master class in a healthy, justice-shaped Christianity lived out loud.With warmth and clarity, Malynda names what the left gets wrong about grace and messaging, shows how faith can inform politics without erasing pluralism, and invites us to be the good news.🎧 Highlights:AME roots: joy, uplift, belonging, and why she never had to “deconstruct”Women preaching & leading without apology“Spreading” vs. being the good newsGrace with standards: calling in without purity testsBetter messaging for the broad middleFaith-informed politics without Christian nationalismWhy diversity is a spiritual giftThe story behind Malynda’s protest hymn “God and His Gun”💬 Key Quotes“People are so focused on spreading the good news when they should be focused on being the good news.”💡 Key TakeawaysLove has teeth: grace is repair, responsibility, and welcome.Simpler, human-first messaging connects; policy is pastoral when it protects people.Pluralism strengthens witness: affirm your faith and your neighbor’s freedom.Measure faith by its fruit: what we practice online/offline forms the public’s view of Jesus.👤 About Our Guest Malynda Hale is a singer-songwriter, activist, writer, and cultural commentator whose work braids art and justice. She is the Executive Director of The New Evangelicals and creates spaces for honest dialogue on race, faith, and the common good. Don’t miss her powerful protest hymn “God and His Gun.”📚 Resources & MentionsAfrican Methodist Episcopal Church — @amechurchofficialThe New Evangelicals — @thenewevangelicalsRep. James Talarico — @jamestalaricoUnited Church of Christ — @unitedchurchofchristJoan Osborne’s “What If God Was One of Us” — @joan_osborneJimmy Kimmel (studio story) — @jimmykimmellive, @jimmykimmel🎵 Music NotesGod aSupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

🎙️ 20. Brian Recker (Ex-Evangelical Pastor) – Hell Bent on Reclaiming LoveAlexis Rice welcomes Brian Recker (@berecker) — former evangelical pastor, founding voice of Beloved on Substack, and author of Hellbent: How the Fear of Hell Holds Christians Back from a Spirituality of Love (out Sept 30)👉 Order on ThriftBooksWith honesty and pastoral clarity, Brian explores why hell-talk became the center of so many Christian upbringings—and how returning to Jesus’ core command to love can free our faith from fear, control, and gatekeeping.Alexis and Brian dive into:What fear-based theology does to kids and communitiesGehenna vs. “hell”: context, metaphor, and why it mattersDeconstruction without losing God—and why Brian stayed ChristianLeaving inerrancy, re-meeting Jesus, and finding church againWorship as deeply humanJustice now vs. afterlife anxiety: building a world where love is in charge💡 Key Takeaways“Perfect love casts out fear” isn’t optional; fear-built faith produces punishment, not Christlike loveReading Scripture with history, genre, and language (Gehenna/Sheol/Hades/Tartarus) expands—not erases—faithThe Kingdom of God is about this world’s flourishing, especially for the most vulnerableCuriosity and honesty are spiritual practices; consent and freedom belong in our faith lives👤 About Our GuestBrian Recker is a former evangelical pastor turned writer and creator whose work centers love-forward, justice-rooted Christianity. He speaks widely on faith, deconstruction, and reimagining spirituality beyond fear.📚 Resources Mentioned (with IG handles)James H. Cone (The Cross and the Lynching Tree) Marcus Borg (The Heart of Christianity, Jesus: A New Vision) — @mjbfoundbell hooks (All About Love) — @bellhooks_Rob Bell (Love Wins) — @realrobbellRev. Darrell Goodwin (Executive Conference Minister, UCC) — @revdgoodwinUnited Church of Christ — @unitedchurchofchrist✨ Beyoncé @beyonce, John Legend @johnlegend, Jon Batiste @jonbatiste — if you’re listening, we’re ready for that Christian worship album. Please and thank you. 🎶🙌#Christianity #deconstruction #ProgressiveChristianity #Exvangelical #TheSacredSlopeSupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

🎙 19. Sara Groves (Singer-Songwriter) – Faith, Fruit of the Spirit & a License to Love🕊️ Reconciling Faith | 💜 Fruit of the Spirit | 🌱 Culture Care > Culture War | 🧠 Mental Health & ChurchThis episode is for anyone holding grief, doubt, and hope at the same time—longing to keep Jesus at the center when public witness fractures. It’s for those learning to absorb harm without returning it, to practice active peacemaking, and to choose culture care in their actual neighborhoods.It’s also a gentle challenge to churches everywhere: love is the measure. Make space for complicated people to belong—and to heal.💡 Key Takeaways • “Without love” is the metric of Christian witness • Pacifism isn’t passive—it’s active peacemaking like Jesus • Culture care > culture war—tend the garden where you live • Faith can mature from certainty to curiosity and stay centered on Christ🙏 For Listeners Questioning, Lamenting, and Rebuilding Sara reminds us that love is not a soft retreat—it’s the hard, holy work. We become people of reconciliation by practicing generosity, kindness, peace, and patience—especially in conflict.⛪ About Our Guest Sara Groves (IG: @grovesroad • Web: saragroves.com) is a Dove-nominated singer-songwriter whose catalog (Conversations, Add to the Beauty, Fireflies and Songs, Floodplain, What Makes It Through) has accompanied listeners through seasons of doubt and renewal. She co-founded Art House North in St. Paul and has long partnered with International Justice Mission. This year, Sara celebrates 25 years of Conversations and is recording four new songs.📚 Resources & Mentions • International Justice Mission — @ijm • Art House North — @arthousenorth / arthousenorth.com • John Inazu — @john.inazu • Makoto Fujimura — @iamfujimura • Charlie Peacock & Andi Ashworth — @andi_ashworth / arthouseamerica.com • Henri Nouwen Society — @henrinouwensociety • The Porter’s Gate — @theportersgate; Climate Vigil Songs: climatevigil.org/album • Dan McClellan — @maklelan🎵 Music on This Episode (Sara Groves) “He’s Always Been Faithful,” “Roll to the Middle,” “Without Love,” “Hello, Lord,” “What I thought I Wanted”🗓 What’s New with Sara Conversations 25-year celebration + new studio tracks in progressGo in peace, friends. May you find sacred ground wherever your questions lead, and may the fruit of the Spirit guide you this week. If you’re longing for community, may you be encouraged to find one that embraceSupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

🎙️18. Rev. Helen (Church of England) – From St. Phoebe to Today: Women as Leaders, Science & a Kinder ChristianityAlexis Rice welcomes Rev. Helen —a Church of England priest serving at St. Margaret’s, Ipswich—and our first guest from outside the United States. With warmth, candor, and a fierce pastoral heart, Rev. Helen shares how her late-in-life call to ministry grew from community, story, and wonder—and why an inclusive, justice-rooted Anglican faith speaks powerfully in today’s world. Stay til the end if you would like prayer.Together, Alexis and Rev. Helen dive into:How the Church of England works (parishes, bishops, General Synod) and  the monarch’s roleWomen in church leadership—from St. Phoebe (Romans 16) to women priests and bishopsScience & faith in the UK (Big Bang, evolution) vs. often evangelical creationism—and teaching kids the Bible with genre and contextPracticing an inclusive church for LGBTQ+ and neurodivergent people, and why visibility mattersPublic perception of Christianity in Britain: “quiet revival,” everyday parish life, and service to the whole communityA UK view of U.S. Christian nationalism—and the hope of ordinary Christians choosing love over powerA pastoral prayer for listeners who need comfort, courage, and blessing💡 Key TakeawaysThere have always been women in leadership in the church—see Romans 16 and the early deacons and apostles.Context isn’t compromise. Reading Scripture with history, culture, and genre in mind deepens faith.Science and Christian faith aren’t enemies. Many UK Christians embrace both without tension.Parish means everyone. The Church of England exists to serve the spiritual care of the whole neighbourhood.Inclusion is pastoral, not political. An affirming, accessible church reflects the wide welcome of Jesus.Hope looks like small, faithful acts—prayer, presence, and practical love multiplied in community.⛪ About Our Guest Rev. Helen Prior Townsend is an Anglican priest (Church of England) and Assistant Curate at St. Margaret’s Church, Ipswich. A liberal Anglo-Catholic, she weaves Godly Play, story, and sacrament into family ministry and champions women’s leadership, LGBTQ+ inclusion, and neurodiversity-affirming worship. Ordained in 2024 after serving as a Licensed Evangelist, she brings a grounded parish lens to life, liturgy, and public faith in the UK.📚 Resources MentionedJames Talarico @jamestalarico (Running for US Senate- Texas) https://jamestalarico.com/St. Phoebe — womanSupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control