The Third Pint Theory

"In essence we’re a country pub where people come together, brought together mostly by food and sociability” founder Geoff Gwynne on the magic of the McLeod's Pizza Barn. In this episode Martin makes a pilgrimage to his “spiritual home”, the McLeods Pizza Barn in Waipu, Northland, to sit down with Geoff Gwynne, co-owner of the venue and McLeods Brewery. Geoff takes us through the origin story of the restaurant, talking about how he and his brother Clayton made the not-so-obvious jump from fashion retail into hospitality. Deciding to open a brewery in the craft beer boom of the 2010s might have been a good idea, but McLeods had to overcome commercial difficulties and personal tragedy before finding success with award-winning beers brewed by their (now former) brewer Jason Bathgate. Geoff talks about their search for Jason’s successor and happily describes how Gav Williams has quickly settled into life in Northland. Along the way Geoff expounds on the McLeods ethos of delivering quality food and drink to a diverse crowd in their own slice of paradise. Grab a beer and settle in for an anecdote-filled romp through the backstory of one of New Zealand’s most-beloved breweries. If you enjoy this episode please like, subscribe and comment on your favourite podcast platform. If you have any questions, comments or suggestions for future topics/guests feel free to drop us an email at [email protected] or [email protected].

Welcome to another episode of the podcast! This time, Martin sits down for a morning pint with Dylan from Brothers Beer at their impressive Mount Eden taproom, built right around a full-size 2,000-litre production brewery. The conversation kicks off with a look back at Dylan's brewing journey, starting with his nearly eight-year stint at Deep Creek. Dylan reflects on the "golden age" of the brewery, sharing the creative process behind award-winning brews like the Undercurrent Pilsner and their spontaneous sour program, before candidly discussing the perfect storm of expansion costs and COVID-19 that ultimately led to the brewery's sudden liquidation. The story takes a dramatic turn as Dylan details his transition to Brothers Beer, arriving just before the brewery faced its own economic hurdles and went into voluntary administration. In a fascinating twist, Brothers Beer was saved from liquidation by a Chinese beer distributor. Dylan opens up about the massive scale and importance of the Chinese export market, explaining how this unexpected lifeline transformed their business model and kept the brewery alive during a severe local economic downturn that saw craft beer sales plummet in New Zealand. Finally, we get a deep dive into the highly specific and demanding tastes of the Chinese craft beer market. Dylan reveals that "Hazy is king" in China, with a massive demand for incredibly strong, sweet beers, prompting Brothers to brew multiple triple and even quadruple IPAs clocking in at 10% to 12% ABV. He explains the unique technical challenges of brewing these behemoths—from managing exhausted yeast and massive dry-hopping rates to tweaking recipes to hit the exact pale mango color their export customers demand. It's a fantastic, behind-the-scenes look at the realities of the modern brewing business. Grab a beer (even if it's morning) and tune in! If you enjoy this episode please like, subscribe and comment on your favourite podcast platform. If you have any questions, comments or suggestions for future topics/guests feel free to drop us an email at [email protected] or [email protected].

Michael & Martin are joined by Denise Garland and Dave Wood, who own Wellington's Winter Ales Festival. They talk to us about what's involved in running a boutique beer festival and what fans can expect from this year's event. Plus Dave and Denise are veterans of the Wellington beer and hospitality scene, so are well-placed to discuss whether the Wellington hospo scene is as bad as it's made out to to be. And with experience of the Scottish beer industry we talk also delve into the BrewDog debacle.

The annual Rare Beer Challenge, designed to raise money for Rare Disorders NZ, is on this year at Auckland's 16Tun, which takes over from the defunct Fortune Favours as the show host. Martin visits 16Tun owner Ewen Thorpe to find out how a one-time member of the Team NZ yachting crew ended up owning a waterside bar. Ewen also has great insights into the state of the beer economy from the POV of a bar owner.

Mount Brewing are celebrating 30 years in business — quite an achievement for the small Bay of Plenty operation. Michael and Martin look back at Mount Brewing's history and Martin chats with head brewer Pawel Lewandowski about how a young Polish tuniversity graduate ended up brewing beer in New Zealand.

Martin visits the just-opened Neck Of The Woods brew pub in Tauriko, just outside Tauranga, and talks to owner Scott Taylor about his journey home to the Bay of Plenty and his years at the ill-fated Deep Creek. This is the first of two pods from the Bay of Plenty, with Mount Brewing next up. Michael and Martin also discuss the recent Rising Tide Lagerfest, and dissect the winners.

New Plymouth brewery Three Sisters are expanding in to Wellington and raising new capital to further grow their production. It's on the back of strong growth both within New Zealand and overseas in 2025, driven by their unique smoothie sour offerings. Martin and Michael usher in 2026 by looking at the success of Three Sisters and analysing the problems facing Behemoth, who are taking on a private equity raise to cover long-term debt.

Michael & Martin look back on the year in beer, looking at the highlights (of which there were plenty) and the lowlights (fortunately, they were few). We name our beers of the year and discuss which breweries impressed us the most in 2025.

Hazy IPA has been part of the New Zealand beer market for just on a decade. Michael and Martin discuss the impact of the haze craze before crossing over to our last Q&A from this year's Beervana festival which features James Cooper and Laura Park from Lakeman and Andrew Childs from Behemoth talking all things hazy.

Michael and Martin discuss the big news stories of the past week — the saving of Hop Federation after Blenheim's DNA stepped in to buy the brand — and the sale of Christchurch icon Three Boys, which is now owned by the head brewer Damian Treacher and his business partner Jason Bass. That links into our Beervana live Q&A with Brian Watson of Good George and Eddie Gapper of Altitude Brewing about the state of the brewing industry in NZ.

Sawmill Brewing in Matakana, north of Auckland, are renowned for their sustainability programme. As New Zealand's only B Corp certified craft brewery they are leading the way for breweries that aim to not only make good beer, but do good things for the environment, and the people who work for them. Co-host Martin Bridges visits owners Kirsty McKay and Mike Sutherland to find out what makes them so successful when it comes to maximising their beer sales while minimising their environmental footprint. Michael and Martin also discuss their award-winning beers and branding as well as looking back at their humble origins.

George Duncan of Duncan's Brewing in Paraparaumu and Joe Emans of Three Sisters in New Plymouth are two of the best when it comes to the innovative dessert-style beers. Whether it's smoothie sours, ice cream sours, pastry stouts or milkshake IPAs, these two are industry leaders. They join Michael & Martin at Beervana to talk about beers that didn't even exist a few years ago.

Epic and Hallertau are two of the most influential breweries in New Zealand when it comes to hop-driven, American-style IPAs. Both breweries turn 20 this year and their respective founders, Luke Nicholas from Epic and Steve Plowman from Hallertau, talk about the early years of the hop revolution when they created two special beers: Armageddon and Maximus; as well as starting the Malthouse West Coast IPA Challenge and changed the way we thought about IPA.

Live from Beervana we bring you a session on the wide and wonderful world of lager. Martin & Michael are joined by special guests — Emma Elmslie of Shining Peak, Dani Wild from Brew Moon and Vlad Petrovic from St Leonards. We sample an eclectic range of different lagers — from a Japanese Rice Lager, to a Baltic Porter and a classic NZ-style Pilsner. Plus Martin and Michael ponder why lager become so disliked and why it's making a comeback. And on this show we're drinking a Sprig + Fern Doppelbock and Czech-style Dark Lager from Heyday.

Michael & Martin bring you the first of the live Beervana Sessions, a live Q&A recording at the Beervana Festival in Wellington on August 22-23. In this episode Pete Gillespie and Dave Bell from Garage Project talk about their Chance Luck & Magic series, including the 2021 vintage which was crowned Champion Beer at the NZ Beer Awards. Plus Matt Smith from 2025 champion brewery, Brave Brewing, talks about their flagship Tigermilk IPA. Martin and & Michael also talk about the recent closures of Fortune Favours and Hop Federation and what that means for the industry.

Michael and Martin are joined by Ben Heaven who was catapulted into national prominence when his Judas Sheep Dark Lager won a place in the New World Beer & Cider Awards Top 25. Ben runs a tiny farm-based brewery — Heaven's Brewery — in the Marua Valley, north of Whangarei. His sudden fame is backed by years of brewing both in England and New Zealand. It's a fascinating story and a must-listen for beers fans.

Martin and Michael are joined this week by Hamish Ward and Caroline Muller-Ward, the husband-and-wife team behind Isthmus Brewing. They're here to talk about the roller-coaster ride they've been on over the past couple of years since Hamish lost his brewing job at Deep Creek. After some ''dark times'' they're on a high at the moment after their 3D IPA was crowned champion beer at the New World Beer & Cider Awards. We talk a lot about that beer and how it pays homage to the classic West Coast IPAs of yesteryear.

Michael and Martin give you a run-down of Beervana, including their picks of the annual festival, held in Wellington last weekend ... which may, or may not, include an ice cream made from beer! Plus they take a look at the just announced New World Beer & Cider Awards, running through the list of the Top 25 beers and giving their recommendations on what to try first.

Ten years brewers Jason Bathgate and Andrew Childs were severely burned in a workplace accident when boiling wort exploded from a brew kettle as they were adding hops. They suffered burns to 30% and 40% of their bodies respectively. Martin chats with Jason, formerly of McLeod's and now running his own brewery, Aliment, and Andrew of Behemoth Brewing about that day and how it changed their lives.

Michael and Martin delve deep into the New Zealand Beer Awards announced last weekend in Christchurch. We run through all the trophy categories, picking out trends, analysing results and looking at some surprise results. Congratulations to Brave Brewing who took out Champion Brewery, and to Garage Project who took out Champion Beer with Chance Luck & Magic 2021.

In this episode Martin catches up with Lee-Ann Scotti and Michael O'Brien, the couple behind Oamaru's cult Belgian-inspired brewery, Craftwork. Michael and Lee-Ann talk about why they love Belgian beer, how they created their wonderful bar in Oamaru's delightful Victorian precinct, and they reflect on their first Bruxelles Oamaru festival. Michael and Martin also wrap up the Malthouse West Coast IPA Challenge, with Michael drinking the runner-up beer Zeus Skis In Jeans by Altitude Brewing in collaboration with Colorado's Westbound & Down. Martin is also drinking a collab, between Brave Brewing and Sawmill. Enjoy.

In this episode Michael and Martin talk to Ryan McArthur, festival director for Beervana, New Zealand's biggest beer festival, which is on in Wellington on August 22 & 23. Keeping a huge beer festival relevant and sustainable is no easy task but Beervana just keeps getting better and better. Plus, Ryan has some inside tips on how to make the most of your experience. The beers we review in this episode are Beervana-esque. Michael has 8 Wired's Sticky Barleywine, a lush 12% beer made with dates, plums and raisins; and Martin is drinking Hallertau's Stuntman Double IPA, rebrewed for their 20th birthday. And we spend a bit of time paying homage to Hallertau, one of the first to bring great beer to Auckland.

We head off to Hastings to visit Brave Brewing and a chat with owners Matt and Gemma Smith. We learn why they are still exclusively in bottles and discuss the power of Tigermilk, their flagship IPA. Plus, Michael and Martin share a couple of beers heavy on Riwaka hops.

Urbanaut founder Bruce Turner came back to New Zealand from England where he worked at an establishment brewery, Fuller's, and a new-wave craft brewery, Meantime. On his return to Aotearoa he wanted to brew the classic style beers he fell in love with in England, including real cask ale. Instead he's ended up brewing hazy IPAs with flavours such as Toasted Marshmallow, Raspberry Lamington and Passionfruit Cheesecake. Michael & martin met Bruce in the Urbanaut brewery and taproom to discuss how they ended up brewing such crazy beers. Plus we talk about Terpene beers, low carb beers (they have four now), the return of the Blenders and the demise of one of the original "classics" in Brixton Pale Ale.

In Episode 2 of the Third Pint Theory we talk to Three Boys founder Ralph Bungard about their status as New Zealand's reigning champion brewery from last year's NZ Beer Awards and what that meant to them. Plus we look at why they've pulled back to focus on their local area of Christchurch at the expense of bigger markets in Auckland. And finally ... is it the end of the line for their famed, multi-award-winning Oyster Stout?!

The Third Pint Theory is a podcast dedicated New Zealand craft beer — focusing on the people who brew it and the places you drink it. Hosted by Michael Donaldson and Martin Bridges. Michael is the editor of Pursuit of Hoppiness, New Zealand's only dedicated craft beer magazine, author of Beer Nation — The Art & Heart of Kiwi Beer, The Hopfather and The Big Book of Home Brew. Martin is a beer judge and consultant with his business Beer Bigwig. We bring you stories about Kiwi beer, the people who make it and the places you drink it.