#111 - She Tried to Rob a Bank. Then Got Her PhD. | Addiction, Codependency, Recovery & More with Dr. Sarah Michaud

She tried to rob a bank at 21 to pay a cocaine dealer. Ended up committed to a psych hospital. Then — 10 years later — went back as a licensed psychologist with a PhD. Dr. Sarah Michaud has been sober 42 years. She's written a book on codependency, spent decades in private practice, and has a perspective on recovery that cuts through a lot of noise: getting clean is only the beginning. The real work is what you do after the substance is gone. In this conversation, Mike and Dr. Michaud explore what most people never address in recovery — the underlying patterns that outlast the addiction itself. They get into codependency, the anger that hides beneath anxiety, why the 9th step amends might be the most psychologically powerful tool in recovery, and why honesty isn't just a virtue — it's the foundation of every real relationship you'll ever have. If you've ever wondered whether therapy and 12-step work are saying the same thing in different dialects, this one is for you. Learn more about Sarah: https://drsarahmichaud.com/ CHAPTERS: 00:00 - The bank robbery and the psych hospital  04:00 - Getting sober at 24 and falling in love with recovery  12:00 - Insights vs. behavior change — why knowing isn't enough  17:00 - 12 steps and therapy: what they share and what therapy misses  25:00 - Cannabis as a hidden barrier in recovery 31:00 - Amends is where the magic happens — the 9th step deep dive  37:00 - Buddhism, the steps, and the radical idea that it's always about you  43:00 - Codependency: the big lie that fixing them will fix you 51:00 - Loneliness, community, and what young people are missing  55:00 - Intimacy only happens when you tell the truth  59:00 - Worthiness: when did you decide you weren't enough? Free 1-month of the Meditation App - Waking Up https://dynamic.wakingup.com/guestpass/SC58BD912  Please Subscribe to my YouTube - YouTube Subscription Link Disclaimer Professional medical care and psychotherapeutic services are not offered on this Youtube channel. It is for general informational purposes only and does not constitute the practice of medicine, nursing or other professional health care services, including the giving of medical advice, and no doctor/patient relationship is formed. The use of information on this podcast or materials linked from this podcast is at the user's own risk. The content of this podcast is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Users should not disregard or delay in obtaining medical advice for any medical condition they may have and should seek the assistance of their health care professionals for any such condition. Seeking professional support is encouraged if you think you have an issue and that you want help.