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Welcome to the Daily Coffee Pro by Map of Forward Friends. I'm your host Lee Safar and this is, unfortunately, the final episode of a wonderful five-part series with Carole Saloon from Three Tomatoes in Sydney. Once again, for yet another series this year, you'll notice that for the last episode, Carole and I addressed different because yet again, we ran out of time to record the final episode. So we look different, but it's the same series.
So Carole, in this series, we're talking about surviving 2025 and 2026 as a cafe owner. And in this final episode, we're going to talk about the secret source that you and Sharon have to keep these two very successful businesses that you've had running Armand Bar and Three Tomatoes, running for as long as you have, and for Three Tomatoes, well, actually both of them were around during crisis. And Armand Bar closed because of no anything to do with you guys. It was, so do you want to explain like how that happened so that we can move on to the next scene?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we had been running Armand Bar for... Penis, right? Well, at the time, no, she's 14 years, 14 years.
Oh, wow. And, well, at about the 12-year mark, we kind of went, you know, we were, you know, I had a child, Sharon was about to have kids, and we just were trying to work out what lifestyle works for us. But I'd be thinking about going into day, night, we went sure. That's where we had brought Three Tomatoes, which is a different name at the time.
And we had both places, Three Tomatoes and Armand Bar at the same time, then the pandemic hit, and then we thought, oh, we can't close Armand Bar now because this would be like, like we're getting up. So we, we kept on with Armand Bar, but we also kept on with Three Tomatoes, and we found that Armand Bar, sorry, that Three Tomatoes was working really, really, really well during the pandemic. We weren't sure about what was going on. We felt better waking up in the morning rather than staying up late at night.
Our age didn't help. And so we ended up saying, OK, like we thought we should just have one. And for the lifestyle sake, we closed Armand Bar. We felt like it had done everything we wanted it to do.
It had been a successful, actually exceeded our expectations by tenfold. And so we were very happy with where we were at, and we felt very comfortable in closing. It's never easy to close a place like your baby. But it was, we went out on a high, you know.
And people still talk about it to this day. I'm having lunch with a friend here in Dubai, who's here to visit. And he asked me, like, who have you got on the podcast today? And I told him, he's like, oh, my God, I miss Armand Bar.
I miss so much. And I'm like, like, that's the thing, right? When you build something like that, there's a magic to it that isn't for me, like. Yeah, so go ahead.
I'll just tell you a story. Last night I was out, and the skill came up to me and said, you know, I went to Armand Bar. She said, I mean, I'd seen her at Armand Bar a few times. And she said to me, you don't ever, it's very rare that you go to a place and you remember that experience forever.
And she said that being at Armand Bar, I remember that experience, I'll always remember that experience. You know, so for me, that was, I mean, no one's ever said that, like that. You know, they'll say that I miss Armand Bar or, you know, there's nothing like it well, but no one says, I haven't heard that someone say, just the experience alone is something I'll never forget. Yeah.
And it's similar to the experience that people, because the same friends that was here, he and I have been to Three Tomatoes together. And he's like, they, it was really interesting the way he put it. Everything they touch, they're successful at. And I thought that's interesting.
That's what we're going to talk about in the book, right? So, so what do you think it is that is the secret source that makes it business like Armand Bar and Three Tomatoes be so beloved that people walk away and say the kinds of things, the girl that or the woman that saw you and my friend, like, what does it do you think that creates that? Um, a few things, one, if we're going to go into, not even the hospitality side, but from a business point of view, putting systems in place. Okay.
So there are the systems, whether the system's being the kitchen, the system's being when someone walks through that door, what happens from the moment they walk in to the moment they walk out, there has to be a system. And so that everybody is consistent. And the customer feels that every time they come in, they're getting a similar experience. We never wanted this for the customer.
The inconsistencies is what creates a lack of loyalty, I suppose. And so that was number one, what we were going to do. We also honestly just brought our good Syrian hospitality to Sydney. That is really the secret.
It was not, I didn't see their training anyone on how to be hospitable, you know, it's just, you just let Tony loose and let him. Well, you have to, you have to, you know, rain him in a little bit, you know, but yeah, I mean, look, one of the things that people love and still talk about in both places and always talk about is that that idea that you just, we walk in there, we walk into your place and we just feel like we're in a community or we're at home or at someone's house. You always make us feel good, you know, and it's not, it's not, as we spoke in the other spoke about in other episodes, it's not fake, it's just, it's genuine care for people. And even if I try to be fake, I can't, you know, but I do, I do find that I always have my mum and daddy, my ear in my head, you know, think, you know, I, you know, like, don't, yeah, like, it would be rude shameful.
Yeah, don't, don't, who cares what's going on at home as soon as someone walks through that door, you smile and you make them feel welcome. And that's exactly what we try to teach our stuff. We don't care what's going on. I mean, we care about what's going on for you, but the customer doesn't need to know what's going on for you personally.
Yeah. The minute someone walks through that door, you're on. You need to make them feel welcome. It's a performance.
It is, it's also the psyche, you know, like to understand the psychology of people. So if you don't know how to read people, you don't know how to gauge people, that's hard too. But we've been taught that from a very young age. You know, it was really interesting.
I went for dinner with a friend and a client last night, shout out to face on. He's in Pakistan and he built the Pakistani specialty coffee industry off his own back. He started at a farmer's market and then just kept pushing and pushing and pushing and now he is the biggest importer of coffee in specialty, specialty market in all of Pakistan, right? So we go and have dinner last night.
And the, the server was, it was so fascinating because he was really trying to show us that he knew what he was talking about when it came to coffee, right? And well, you know, coffee people always very appreciative of people who are, you know, go that extra mile. And the server walked away and while the information that he had was knowledgeable, it had zero heart and zero hospitality. Yeah.
And, and you just look at it and we just, face on, I kind of looked at each other and we started the conversation and I was telling him about you and the conversation that you and I have been having about the secret source, whatever it is that we're taught in our blood about hospitality in our culture. We don't have to pretend when it comes to doing hospitality in a venue. Yeah. That's right.
It's, it's something that customers can see straight through the second they know that you're pretending. Oh, yeah. They know. And, and it's an energy in more than anything.
It's an energy. You know, yeah. Yeah. Yesterday, yesterday we, I was, I was at work and a man, one of a customer who is not regular regular, you know, you might come in once a month or once a few weeks, was sitting down having a coffee in breakfast and on his own and didn't have a phone to distract him.
So he was watching what was going on, watching the operations of the cafe and an older man. And I could see from the corner of my eye him watching, but you know, we were just being asked, but I was just trying to work out what he's thinking. He didn't, he didn't say anything straight away, but then as he was leaving, he paid and then he said, he said, I just have to say, you really have a beautiful community feel here. And, and I said, Oh, thank you.
He said, you've built something amazing. And so I was very appreciative of that. Obviously, you know, he didn't have to say that, but he felt it just sitting there and watching, you know, because people would come in and I'm like, Oh, how can we so and so am. I mean, this and, you know, talk like every customer, their name was known.
And, you know, we had a story with them. I was asking them about something. So, you know, that's just, it's just part of the game. But I think it's not hard.
That's the thing. It's no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, you. But the thing is like, we have to acknowledge there for us. It's not hard because it is a part of our DNA, right?
And it is everything that has been modeled to us at every Auntie and uncles house that we went to in our own houses. It was drilled into us when we would go overseas and go to Syria or wherever it was that we were every time we were around Syrians. The same standard of hospitality was echoed everywhere we went, right? But like this kid was trying so hard and God bless him.
Like he was trying so hard to do this. And I could say he really wanted to do a really good job, but it was mechanical. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and he was doing what was necessary to get a tip. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, that's the other thing. It's a very Western way to look at it. Yeah. So when you say it's not hard, we have to acknowledge that we take that for granted because our parents did us a solid by teaching us hospitality from when we were little kids.
You know, for those who don't know, the etiquette when you enter an Arab household is like extreme. There's a certain amount of water you're supposed to put in a cup. There's a certain order to the way that it gets served, who gets served first? The order that coffee gets served, do you know, for you guys, it's coffee's last, right?
Yes. Right. Same, like we're Syrians. That's the way it is in Syria.
In Lebanon, it's coffee first. Ah. Yeah. So like I'm learning so much about this stuff now that I live in our leagues and so in every culture in the Levant and in the Gulf, coffee plays such a deep part of our culture and it is such an important part of the ritual of hospitality.
There's an order to everything, you know, cold drinks and maza, like, I don't know, snacks are served first and then you have a lot of food or like some, a light bite and then you have some cake and tea. And then when the host wants you to leave and they want to tell you to fuck off and go home, they're going to serve you some coffee. They've been, when I've been at mum and dad's and I'm going to make coffee, no, it's rooter. They'll think about it.
They'll think you're trying to get rid of it. That's the wild part about it, like there's even built signals into it. And when you talk about systems, the way that you talk about systems, all I can think of is how that's reflected in the cultural structure that we've got around hospitality. And it's done to keep everybody safe.
And I mean safe on so many different levels, right? You want to keep your staff safe and you want to keep your customers safe, but it's not just about physical safety. There's a psychological safety in knowing the cadence that service goes. Yeah.
And it's true. As someone that's observed you over many, many, many years, if I was to name the secret source that you guys have got, you understand the cadence of hospitality. And it's intentional. The part about it that you can't learn, that's already in you.
And it's obvious whenever you walk into an establishment that you and Sharon have built, it's like there's a magic in the air. And whether you call community or whatever you call it, it is a magic. Well, that's nice. It's nice to know that.
I mean, obviously it's not something that's not how we see it. I've done some consulting for people opening cafes. And when I was first trying to put something together, I found it really hard to put into words that, you know, and I know, but it's also, you know, I go, well, like I said, two people, why is it so hard? Yeah.
If a customer drops an app, can you go give them another napkin? Or, you know, if they don't like a meal, then you don't charge them for it. Or, you know, if something goes wrong, give them something as a compensation. Or like, you know, just little things that you go, just make you happy.
I'm going to lose $1, $2, $3, $10, $15, what matters? That's hospitality. Whoops, how happy. And the thing is with you guys, you don't make a big deal about it at all, unless you're Tony serving me an ice cream.
I should be joking. Like, of course, we make it. That's years later, we're still talking about it. And every time I see him, he reminds me of it.
But like the little things that make a place win are all the little details that the customer never notices. So then when you get someone come to you and say, hey, like, I want you to be consulted for my cafe because I love the cafe that you've opened. And they're like, tell me what I should do. And you're doing the things that come automatic to you because that's hospitality.
Whereas they're, they're like looking for you to give them notes on every one of those details. Whereas it's like an nature to you. Yeah. Yeah.
It's hard. It's hard to turn it into a business model, I suppose. Yeah. Right.
Yeah. So this has been, for me, like having you on the podcast every year is going to be a dream. Because it's just, we walked this industry through so many hard times. And now we've got another really, perhaps the hardest time in the hospitality industry moving forward.
And it's just going to be wonderful to watch you and your career. And whatever it is that you guys do is just going to be really fantastic. Thank you. You know, hopefully one day you get to open a place in Dubai, so that just can be just for me.
I think that's one in Dubai, one in Japan, one in the North Shore. Another series being rebuilt, maybe one in Syria, so that I've got somebody to go when I go there. Yeah. Yeah.
We'll just travel the world. Why not? Hey, word. I'm down.
Would you remind everyone as we wrap up this series, would you remind everyone where they can find three tomatoes and where you are online? Yeah. So three tomatoes is, we've got Instagram and Facebook, three tomatoes, are you? And we are in Ashbury, which is an inner west suburb of Sydney, a little corner, beautifully landscapes.
Yeah. And you'll just feel it before you say it, you'll feel it as you're approached. A thousand percent. A word.
Yeah. And she's not even exaggerating. I promise you guys. This is coming out when I'm in Australia, so it will be this weird thing where I will have already seen you, but I can't wait to see you when I see you.
And thank you for what you do for our industry, because you and Sharon have really made, and this is what you've done for those of us in hospitality in Sydney who are wogs, right? Like, I can say that because I am a wog, and a wog isn't, is that the Aussie slang for an ethnic person. But those of us that are wogs that grew up in Sydney, and we're kind of like told we can't do a whole bunch of things, you were those people that gave a face to our food and our culture and our hospitality, and you made it accessible to the white people, the Aussies, and they just loved it. And quite frankly, you gave everyone that wanted to do what you guys do, permission to do that.
And the pioneers never get recognised for being the pioneers, because you guys went out there. And I'm just so grateful that you did that, and it's a legacy that is going to live forever in Sydney. So thanks for what you do. You're welcome, man.
But honestly, I can't wait to see you, and have Tony talk shit to me for some reason. Yeah, absolutely. He'll find a reason. No, no, no.
I'm not looking for him. I'm not some kind of massacres that I want Tony to talk shit to me. It's just a find a way to do it every time. Anyway, always our final question for the series.
When the future version of you comes back and watches this, what do you hope for her? That I'm proud of this person, and that I always do what I say I'm going to do. Yeah. We're all really, really proud of you, and I hope that she's just as proud of you.
So would you do us a favour and sign us off for the last episode of the series? Sure. Thank you, everyone. Peace, love and peanut butter.
Have an amazing rest of your day, everyone. Bye. Bye. If you enjoyed this episode, consider supporting Mapper Forward, our guests and advertisers on social media.
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