*35.5 Makkos Daf 23 B (4 lines after spreads)*

*35.5 Makkos Daf 23 B (4 lines after spreads)**Summary*_We learned in the mishna (35.4): Rabbi Chananya ben Gamliel: One who receives malkos is absolved from kareis._*Gemara:**Rabbi Yochanan: The Chachomim disagree with Rabbi Chanania ben Gamliel.**Rav Ada bar Ahava quoting Bei Rav:* The _mishna_ states “Shabbos and Yom Kippur are equal, except that a desecration of Shabbos is punished by man [Beis Din], whereas a desecration of *Yom Kippur is punishable by Kareis.” If Rabbi Chanania’s position is correct, Yom Kippur is also punishable by man* [since the Kareis penalty is removed when Beis Din gives _malkos]._*Rav Nachman: [Only] Rabbi Yitzchok disagrees with Rabbi Chanania ben Gamliel.* We learned (20.3) that according to Rabbi Yitzchok there is no _malkos_ for one who deserves Kareis.*Beraisa: Rabbi Yitzchok:* Forbidden relations with a sister was part of the general rule of all the close relatives with whom intimate relations are punishable by _kareis._ And yet the Torah specifies that forbidden relations with a sister is a _kerisus_ liability; this teaches that it [and all others in the rule] is punishable *only by _kareis_ and not _malkos._**Rav Ashi: The Chachomim may agree with Rabbi Chanania ben Gamliel.*When the _mishna_ states that Shabbos is punishable by man whereas Yom Kippur is not, it is referring to *the chief punishment.**Rav Ada bar Ahava amar Rav: The halacha follows Rabbi Chanania ben Gamliel.* _(This is an unusual statement, because there is no practical difference to us)._*Rav Yosef: Who ascended to heaven* and returned to tell us whether they give _kareis_ or not?!*Abayye* to Rav Yosef: What about the statement of *Rabbi Yehoshua ben Levi: “The upper court agreed to three decisions of the earthly court”,* Who ascended to heaven and returned to let us know about that? No one went up. *We understand the position of the heavenly court by hints from _pessukim._* Rav too, inferred the halacha in this case from _pessukim.__(We see here that it is a given that no one returned from heaven. Thus we understand that whenever the gemara tells us about things that took place in the heavenly realm, it is not to be taken entirely literally, but as a vision or a dream that was granted to the authors of the Talmud)._ See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. This podcast has been graciously sponsored by JewishPodcasts.fm. There is much overhead to maintain this service so please help us continue our goal of helping Jewish lecturers become podcasters and support us with a donation: https://thechesedfund.com/jewishpodcasts/donate