362: Time and Cheese Grater

Hey, so something worth knowing is a benefit for the nonprofit organization that makes Crash Course and SciShow Complexly. It's September 16th, 2026 in Los Angeles, California at the Wilshire Ebell Theater. Please join us. It's going to be incredible.

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Tickets go on sale to the general public June 30th at somethingworthknowing.com. So come build a better world with us on September 16th and experience something worth knowing you can get your ticket at Complexly.info slash something. Hey, hey, so listen, um, we're in Jamaica, cold open. We're in Jamaica right now.

We're on vacation, Hank and me, because we're not just brothers on the internet. We're also brothers in real life. It's pretty cool. And we're recording this on an iPhone, so apologies for the poor sound quality.

That's gonna sound great. But we had to run away from our spouses to record it at all. Yeah, we had to send them to the spa. I'm not sure that this is how they prefer for this to have gone.

For vacations to go. Yeah, but we're here. We're gonna answer some of your questions, provide you with dubious advice and bring you all the weeks news from both Mars and AFC Wimbledon. But we're gonna do it in a little more of a chill way.

Yeah, you'll chill vibes today. It's more of an easy-listening DJ energy. Like we're in, like we're surrounded by a bamboo fence, which we are. Imagine that.

I feel like the main thing that those great DJs do to make you feel calm is they extend the last salamble of the phrase. Yeah. All right, what's your- Yeah, I'm gonna tell you what story about this morning. Wait, is this gonna be a damn dad joke?

No. So last night I woke up in the middle of the night in Jamaica in my room because it sounded like someone had knocked a shampoo bottle. Oh, in the bathroom off of the thing and I hit the ground and went, doop, doop. I was like that.

Look, here's the situation. This is what I- because I'm very tired. I'm very tired and I was like, mm-hmm. Either that was nothing of importance or there's a person in my hotel room.

In either situation, the right call is to lay here, yep, quietly, yep, with my eyes closed. Yep. Because if I do that almost every night, it's not gonna get better if I'm like, what are you doing in here? And so I laid there.

And I was actually pretty at peace because I know there was like a 99.99% chance that it was something, just something. And then about 20 minutes later, I was still awake because it wasn't that at ease. I was still awake. And I heard the noise again.

But this time, it was obviously because at this point, I was awake and not being woken up, a fruit bat dropping a mango on the porch. Oh, yeah. We had a couple of fruit bats drop a couple of things on the porch here too. Yeah, it was like, there was one in my shoe.

It was like eight more times. It's such a fruit bat living. It's absolute life. Yeah.

We've had a great time in Jamaica, full disclosure. We have had a few drinks today. Yeah, I've had a half a drink. I'm having a drink now.

It's good. It's good. It's delicious. John, do you want to answer some questions from our listeners?

You're the one with the questions, but I can't know. Well, I was asking you if you wanted to do it. I'm recording. By the way, if you're impressed with the recording quality, I just want you to know it's all me.

John is holding it in his hand so carefully. Like, it's a delicate flower. You see that lizard? Where?

Right over there, man. Oh, he's a big one. This is great radio. You see that lizard?

That's straight out of the This American Life School of Audience description. We're on the back porch too. And like, there's a walkway right behind us. So you're, you aren't the only people getting the show.

No. My name is Maddie. Maddie writes here. John.

And I'm making the hard boiled eggs for my lunch tomorrow. Good. Now that I've finished boiling my eggs, I have a pot of hard boiled egg water leftover and I want to use said egg water to make my coffee. But my mom says this is unacceptable.

I believe my idea is efficient, environmentally conscious, and inventive. Plus, I would imagine that the residual calcium in the water from the eggshells could be beneficial. Wow. Questions.

Can I drink hard boiled egg water? I would generally value your inside pumpkins and penguins and eggs. Maddie. Maddie, this is so disgusting.

It's so disgusting. So bad, Maddie. It's really bad. I don't know why.

There's like a lot of other things that you can do with that water. You know, like, put it on the plants. Exactly. Just water the plant.

You think it's gonna be healthy for you? You don't want a poor boiling water on the plant. So it's already hot. So there's three efficiencies.

Okay. Oh, right. The water's already hot. That's part of it.

That's part of it. That's three efficiencies. There's the efficiency of you don't have to use any extra water. Right.

There's the efficiency. You don't have to use any extra heat. Right. And there's the efficiency of Maddie's time.

Right. And that actually, the heat one actually is environmentally sensitive. You know, like there is, there's a cost. Yeah, it takes a lot of energy to energy cost to heating up the water that Maddie is going to use for for Maddie's coffee.

Now, there's also three costs that Maddie is occurring. Oh, great. Great. I see you've done some prep work.

Really? I'm not sure what they are yet. We're gonna find out. It's um, so cost number one.

No, that's the third one. The one you're thinking of now is definitely number three. No, cost number one is the social cost. No, that's number three.

No, no, no. I'm just able to save the funniest one for the fair. It's not the funniest. Oh, man.

I'm excited to see where else you've got social costs. It's just like the absolute shot in horror. It's like, I know the social cost. Yeah.

Now Maddie's mom knows. But now so does everybody. Who listens to this podcast? But it's, you know, it's like when I revealed to the world that I drink or I eat my cereal moistened with water, tap water.

And now like every time you go anywhere, there's people wearing, wearing John Green as a monster, cereal water, shirts. No, but like, it's very similar to the situation Maddie's in except for the second third cost, which we haven't gotten to yet, which is that like there's, it's a, it's a bummer when people look at you with that shock and horror that your mother surely looked at you with. So that's cost number one. Yeah.

So like, you know, you know what? Cost two and three are? I know I take one. You take cost two.

Okay, cost two, there's some, there are things in this water that aren't in the normal water that is used to make coffee and people who make coffee assume that you're going to have water that's not in some boiled eggs. I don't know what's in there, but I know it's got to have some like hydrogen sulfide, which is that egg smell. Yeah. You don't want eggs in your coffee, like you boil eggs and you do get a little bit of an egg smell, right?

I think you do. I mean, sometimes I'll tell you what Hank, I'm starting to think that Maddie might have a case to make here. Well, but there's also like, you know, what are the health concerns? You know, one of the main places that egg has been because I don't want one place every egg has been.

Yeah, I know. In the cloyic of a chicken. Yeah. And I know that sometimes they've been, I don't know, you might be British in which case it hasn't been washed as much.

So when we wash them and then you have to refrigerate them because they don't have that protective layer. Even so. Yeah. I don't think you necessarily want to like lick raw eggshells, which is essentially what you're doing.

I mean, I guess the water's been boiled. It's been boiled. So you're just you're licking boiled eggshells. Yeah.

So I am a little worried about the sanitation. So we got some sanitation concerns and some taste related concerns which are related to each other, right? That's maybe that's two and three or do you have a no? No, that's two that we think.

So number one is people will be horrified. Yeah, there's so it's gross. And then I think I think number three, hold on. I'm thinking.

I did have it earlier, man, but then I got really into your thing about the egg water. Oh, oh, I remember the third cost. Okay. And this is a common cost that goes unnoticed.

A lot of times is, Maddy, if you do this, you're going to have to live with yourself. You know, for the rest of your life, you're going to have to live with yourself. Yeah. You know, well, yeah, but you can't you can't it's an internal social cost.

Like on we are social beings, even absent the judgment of others. You can't unmake a mistake. But here's the thing, maybe if you put a bunch of calcium in the egg in the coffee water, it's better. There's only one way to find out and maybe Maddy's gonna be the only person who knows because even if it is better, I'm not doing it.

This next question comes from Katherine Raskis, Darianne Congen at Electric at my university. The professor is speaking told in anecdote about how he started a farm a few years ago as a way to encourage us that everyone fails. He told us that his major farming failure was that three months after getting his animals, all of his chickens were dead because the cows ate them. I thought he was kidding because cows definitely don't eat chickens, right?

But he seemed serious. And when I googled it, there's a story about a cow named Lao who ate 48 chickens. I was taught in elementary school that cows are herbivores, was I live to? Our cows actually full of bloodlust and coming for us in the night.

Check out the bed for 100 cows, Katherine. Well, bulls are definitely coming for us all the time. Like if you ever are near a bull, you're like, oh, you're not chill at all. You're not being cool about the situation in the least.

I thought you were a cow. So there's that. But I also think, I mean, I'm not an expert on this, and am I correct in assuming that while cows don't usually eat animals, they still can kill them? Not only do they do that, but cows are always eating animals.

They're just usually very small. So cows just like chickens will eat bugs. They eat bugs all the time. And I think that they even intentionally eat bugs sometime.

Eating a lot of meat can be bad for a cow. But almost all herbivores eat meat. And this is relatively recent. So if you don't feel like this didn't hit your schooling, it's not necessarily because you relied to it maybe because we didn't know it at the time.

But as we have continued to study animals, like a deer, we'll see like, you know, it takes a lot of time to sort of observe every moment of a deer's life. But now we see that deer will sort of preferentially like go to bird nests and eat baby chicks in the nest. Really? And you're like, that's a deer.

That's not cool. That's like monster behavior. Yeah. But I haven't heard anything that messed up since Mattie wanted to make coffee out of her egg water.

So next time you watch Bambi and you're so choked up about all this business, just remember Bambi's mama was a monster. Bambi deserved what was coming to it. Yeah, just like the rest of us. I don't know.

Oh, people don't get mad at me for that. What was it? joke. Okay, I don't you just worried about getting canceled for that one.

That doesn't feel like the one. That doesn't feel like the one. I mean, it's coming. I mean, it's coming.

I for sure. But that's not it. But I think that that cow feed even contains some meat and bonyl. Okay, great.

So what's our next question always learning? Yeah. And watch out. If you're a chicken, fear the herbivores.

You're the cow. This next question comes from Noah who asks deer hand good John to suit make you pee. Stop asking me about my arc. Noah.

Yeah, I probably get old. I bet it does. Does suit make you pee John? Yes, correct.

Moving on. This next question comes from Nikko who asks deer and good John. Yeah, if you're not say as confused about electricity, he calls it electricery. Agree.

I love the idea of a conspiracy theorist who thinks that electricity isn't real. You know, there's some other like it's the government doing it with government thoughts. Yeah. What could electricity be?

Well, that isn't real. Well, continue. His main issue is yeah. How does electricity know to go down a wire that's connected to a circuit, but never go on down the wire that's a dead end.

How does it know not to travel into a dead end? Does it send scouts? Please help. Electric or treats?

Yeah. What do you got? You got anything here? I got a little metaphor that I think will be helpful.

You go. You go. See what you got. All right.

Well, I want another tingling. So I was hoping that you go on one of your long science rambles. Well, and I could get myself a cocktail that's just rum and this soda called dig. Yeah, it's yeah.

Actually, I'm going to do that. You're going on your science. Okay. So he's a situation.

Imagine any time that that's people are confused about electricity or I'm confused about electricity. I tend to think to myself. Okay. It's all just like water.

So there's pipes and there's stuff flowing through the pipes and the stuff going through the pipes is water. Now it's it's kind of this so imagine, for example, that if you put like a little bit of water into a pipe that's already full of water, the little bit of water at the front isn't the water that's coming out of the back. So if you put like new electricity into a wire, the electrons that are coming in the back, like the ones you just created aren't the ones that are coming out of the other end. They're getting pushed through the whole system out the other end.

And in the same way, you can imagine if you have a pipe that leads to nothing that pipe is full of electrons and they're not going anywhere. And so there's no like, so if an electron tries to get in there, it's already full. Now if something connects to a circuit at the end of that pipe, then suddenly those electrons will have some where to go and those new electrons will flow into take up the space and they'll be pushing. But if there's no place for it to go, there's no like outlet for the electrons to flow out of, then it doesn't matter how much pressure you push on the end of that pipe.

You can't put water through it. You can't put electrons through it because it's already full of water. And no matter how hard you push, you can't get any more in. Now the moment you give any opportunity for some electrons to come out the other end, if you have a bunch of pressure, they will pop out the other end for sure, which is why you don't want to stick a fork into a electro socket.

But that is how I imagine it. Okay. And it is always very helpful. It's also helpful in terms of how wide the pipe is, how much resistance inside of the pipe, how fast the current, slowing through the pipe, has analogs.

And sometimes people will come at you because this isn't a perfect metaphor. And of course, it's not. But it's a lot more helpful than any other metaphor I've ever used to help me in a sort of day-to-day electricity works. Great.

Well, I thought that was a good answer. And it was long enough for me to get my drink. John has discovered on this trip, just how much I need Bifocals and he will not let me with it now. It's hilarious.

I mean, I need Bifocals. My doctor was like, hey, you need Bifocals. And I was like, you shut your mouth. My doctor on the other hand was like, hey, you can go under five years.

No, you will not. You can't even go another five minutes. I'm like, just trying to do everything. And he either has to have the phone so far away from his body that his arm can barely get there.

No, it's not that weird. Or he has to have it right underneath his nose. It's a problem. Yeah, it's not great.

But it's okay. It's just weird to me that my younger brother would need Bifocals. Like I'm worried about what that implies for me. Now there's so many science questions.

You want to try another science question? Yeah, I'm good at them. Okay, this one's from Angela who asks your handconjani recently purchased a heating pad at CVS. The safety instructions state, do not use in an oxygen atmosphere.

That's a great plan. Does this mean that the product is not safe for use on earth? Oh, no, we don't have an oxygen atmosphere. Bring my heating pad to Mars, but not until after 2026, Angela.

It's not 2026, is it? I think it's 2027. Oh, that's so soon. I know.

But don't worry, Elon's on it. Yeah, so the reason we don't live in an oxygen atmosphere, we mostly, most of air is nitrogen. It's weird to understand this is something Hank's been writing a lot about. It's weird to understand that air is made out of stuff that you can feel it a little bit here in the Caribbean, that air is made out of stuff.

But usually it's hard to remember that air is made out of stuff, but most of the stuff is nitrogen. It's still you stick your hat out of the window of a moving car. That's true. Then you feel it.

Most of the air is nitrogen. And if you are in a pure oxygen environment, really hot things that may have a spark associated with them are real bad. Right. The flammability, things burn much more easily in a pure oxygen atmosphere, and you are likely to have a lot of oxygen around in certain medical situations.

But usually, it's not going to be a pure oxygen atmosphere. There's pure oxygen that's going straight into the nose, or nose and mouth of the person who needs the oxygen. And that helps get the oxygen in the blood. Your heating pad is good, man.

Yeah. Your heating pad is good, man. But you got to watch out if you're inside of a Martian habitat and you start noticing that they're increasing the oxygen levels, because that might mean that the people who are trying to put down your rebellion are about to burn down your entire habitat. That is really, really true.

Why not for that? I've noticed that in red Mars. I'm not sure which one it was, but yeah, we thought about it. Good job.

Thanks. I was going to guess, I was going to guess Dune, but then I remembered that's not on Mars. That's not a fake Mars. So I got to knock off invitation, Mars.

Oh, God. So John finally, we have one that you are qualified for. It's from Kli. I thought I did a good job with that.

It's not Kli at all. It's Kyle. Okay. Kyle.

This is not Kyle. Kyle who asks, do you think that John, how many pancakes are required for a stack? Well, I mean, I am a little bit qualified. When I worked at Steak and Share, the minimum definition of a stack was three pancakes.

Okay. Now, I think that's definitely not one. It's definitely not one and it's not four. Oh, you do not need four pancakes to make a stack.

I feel like it might be six. No, almost no one can eat six normal size pancakes. You can eat six eye-hot pancakes. Yeah, well, it's good ones.

But I'm talking about a proper pancake, a steak and shake pan. Those are big boys. And I think three is the most you would ever want to eat. Yeah.

And so I think it has to be three. And then if you have five, six, eight stacks, that's all fine. Anything up that way is fine. I don't think two pancakes is a stack.

Is it a little weird that pancakes are their own food meal when they are just the simplest bread? No, because I don't think to myself ever it's breakfast. I'm going to have three slices of bread. I think that almost every morning.

Okay. That's true. But yeah, a toast on that. Yeah, but the pancake thing, so it is a little weird.

Pancakes are weird because we also treat them as one thing when they could be anything. There's no reason you can have sweet pancakes, you can have savory pancakes, you can put meat in your pancakes. You know, Matty would. Eggs.

You've crushed up eggshell. You've got egg water for it. Just like Matty. Just kind of put them in the egg water just for a minute before you put them on the frying pan.

Just give them a little saw. Do you think two might be a stack? I don't think two is a stack. No, no.

Like they're stacked. No. I want to stack it on the other. No, I think why not ask the experts.

And in this case, that's Steak and Shake. And in this case, they say three. Which reminds me that taste podcast is brought to you by Steak and Shake, my first employer. Already the sponsor.

Well, the sponsor podcast is also brought to you by Electron Pipes. Electron Pipes. Yeah. Delivering heat and light and entertainment to your home since 19 something.

Or 18 something if you were right. Yeah. Just in the early part of the bell curve. Yeah, where you happen to get hit by lightning one afternoon, have your house hit by lightning.

And then you're like, wow, it's warmer. Fire. It was both good and bad. Also, face, podcast is of course brought to you by Maddie's Eggwater.

Maddie's Eggwater. It's ready for coffee. Oh, yeah. This podcast is brought to you by Ting, the Jamaica soda.

It's as far as I can tell, great fruit flavor, but only the good parts. It really is. It's just like, only the good parts of the grid. It's kind of surprising to me that Ting hasn't taken off elsewhere.

I think that it might kind of require it to be warm. Maybe, but they're warmly. They say that about Mountain Dew. When I was a kid, people said that about Mountain Dew, they'd be like, Oh, Mountain Dew.

But this Ting, it's pretty perfect. It's good. I like it a lot. It's bottled by PepsiCo, according to the bottle.

Yeah. I already looked into it. Because you know how Ryan Reynolds bought Aviation Gin, because he liked it so much. Yeah.

Did you think about buying it? Maybe I could buy Ting. I mean, yeah, I can. One is a little more colonialist than the other.

That's a good point. I think there's a number of problems with this idea. Yeah. I don't think it's a great idea.

I don't know that we want to get in the sugar water business, Hank. Yeah. Just one more sponsor. Oh, right.

Sorry. Today's podcast also brought to you by Vlon Brothers Beer. Vlon Brothers Beer. A thrilling new beverage.

Well, I think we should be like Ryan Reynolds and get into know. It's got to be something classy, like Ryan Reynolds has. Oh, are you right? What about like, what about like a beer that's not around anymore that we've lost to time?

Oh, there's one they make one in Indiana called Champagne Velvet that's made from the first ever beer recipe. Yeah, Champagne Velvet. Yeah. Like for Mesopotamia?

No, from like 1908. I guess the first ever Indiana beer recipe. In 1908. No.

You want to try to like resurrect Mesopotamian. No, I bet it's not great. Booze. I bet it's not great.

I kind of like that idea, though, just to like go like a historical. Talk to all those Bead people. They can't shut up about it. Bead people.

Need. Need. Need. Yes.

I do love a mead. This episode of Your Hank and John's Prompted You by Shopify. There are a lot of things that stand between I have an idea and this is an idea that actually exists in the world and people are buying things from me. And that is what Shopify makes easier.

When you start with Shopify, the tools, to design and launch and take payments, they're all there from day one. You don't have to build a whole machine before you can start building the business. And this is important because you also have to like look good and with Shopify's templates, you could get a site set up really quick that looks credible and professional without needing to code or duct tape a bunch of different tools together. And when things look real, that works on my brain to be like, I'm doing a real thing.

It also works on other people's brains to be like, this is legitimate. Shopify also has one of the best checkout systems on the internet. It's built to help customers finish the purchase effectively and efficiently without a bunch of roadblocks. Returning customers can check out with a single click.

That means less friction and fewer abandoned carts and a smoother experience for everybody. That stuff gives you confidence early on and it gives other people confidence in what you're doing. You're not wondering whether the payment system is going to work. You're not wondering whether customers can get through the process.

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You can start your free trial at Shopify.com slash deerhank. Start your free trial at Shopify.com slash deerhank with new subscription only while supplies last until September 27th, 2026. See website for more details. I'm going to show you how to make your summer wardrobe easier by going to Quince.com slash deerhank for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns.

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See website for more details. This next question comes from Louise who asks deerhank and John, are they one you're qualified for? Is it right to you? I'm watching- It's hard not to be insulted by your definition of what I'm qualified for.

It's a bunch of science ones and then I'll make pancakes in this deck. No, you'll like this one. As I write to you, I'm watching the Raxon versus Sheffield United Gang TV. Paul Mullins has just scored so Raxon is now up three to two with less than four minutes to go.

Oh god, heartbreak is incoming. Well, it's not so bad. As the BBC keeps insisting on showing Ryan Reynolds's reactions, IDK, I guess he's objectively handsome or something. I occasionally see John standing beside him.

And I just got to know, John, what are you doing with your hair? Are you actually trying to pull it out? It looks like you're trying to shampoo it incredibly vigorously. Anyway, I hope you enjoy the match puppets and piglets, Louise.

I saw this one at the inbox and I started and I was like, I need that one. That's hilarious. You want to come through please? Yeah, I mean it's- I do it when I am experiencing amazement.

Oh yeah. So every time that- the only time the BBC or when I'm experiencing disappointment, right? And so the only- and I was obviously reading for Raxon in that game, it's great David versus Goliath story. And so every time they cut to Ryan Reynolds, I was in the background like pulling my hair in amazement.

I could not believe that Raxon was scoring against a side that's going to be in the premiere lead next year. I was genuinely shocked. And yeah, but then I did see some of the resulting memes. And I don't know.

I just- I was just doing it. Like right before- I don't know why. Yeah. It's just- you know, it's nice that John has such a visible tell.

Yeah. It's not an affectation. Where is it on the sleeve? I do.

I'm not a great actor. I'm not very good at that card game BS. That's right. You know, John and I, one thing you'll know about us is that we won't ever get into professional gambling.

We're not like, I think I know how we're gonna make it work. I think the reason I wouldn't get into professional gambling isn't because I wouldn't- I'm not like vulnerable to it because I totally am. Yeah. I think the reason is that I can't handle it.

I can't- absolutely not. I can't handle the swings and roundabouts. I can barely handle sports when there's no gambling involved at all. John, can I tell you a story?

Sure. So for about four- five weeks? I've had an eye twitch. Yeah, I know.

Um, and I thought to myself, I'm gonna go on this trip, on this vacation, my brother and sister are all my wife, and it's gonna be relaxing. And I'm not gonna let myself hope. I'm not gonna let myself hope that it's gonna fix my eye twitch because that's, you know, things are complicated. Yeah.

But I currently can't make my eye twitch. Yeah, well that's the thing about an eye twitch. Once it's gone, you like can't make it come back. Yeah.

But then once it's there, you can't make it go away. Yeah. Well, I'm really glad. And you know what?

Well, we'll see. I'm surely back tomorrow. But we should lean into this experience. I've been telling you, Hank, and I know we got families and jobs and everything, man.

I love our kids. But like, we could make a go with it here. Yeah. You know?

We're somewhere here. I don't know. I want to be right here. I like this house.

This square foot of water. Yeah. Yeah. No, I really do.

I just like yesterday I said to Sarah, I was like, hey, I mean, I love Indianapolis. I'm a big civic booster and everything. But like, it's not as good as this. I'm sure it's got its its difficulties as well, of course, but like, but the weather is better.

There's so much winter left. So much. Exactly. We're going to go back to winter.

You've got left. We've got a month. It's true. It's true, man.

Oh, Lord. All right, John. I got another question that you're qualified for. Great.

Dear Hank and John, I am a waitress at a restaurant that is famously known to stand at the table and great cheese on all your food. Oh, sometimes these people will go absolutely ham and I will have to awkwardly stand above them in silence for a solid 60 second. I'm turning copious amounts of cheese onto all of their food. What are some things I could talk about to break the silence?

I need to be as advice as greatly greatly contented appreciated, not summer or winter or spring or fall autumn. Bottom. This is our fall though. This is a great question.

It's so good. But I think the answer is that you're doing the right thing, which is trying to make them as uncomfortable as possible with this abuse of your time and cheese grater because you have to be nice to the customer. Yeah, you have to ask the customer. And that's your job as a server.

But you don't have to imply that it's okay for a full minute and a half of cheese grating to happen. Yeah, because the cheese grating is like, it's like a it's like a shtick. You just texted me. No, I didn't.

Well, yes, you did. I didn't. You definitely did check your own text messages. Oh, I did.

You weren't listening to me so intensely. I knew you were on me in the way that you said next to me. I hear you saying I texted. Okay, this gets to something important.

Hank and I are convinced that Mark Zuckerberg is way wrong about the metaverse. All these metaverse people are so excited about something that already happened. That's the thing. Like, we think that these metaverse people have the right instinct, but they've drawn the wrong conclusion.

Yeah, we can already enter the metaverse and it takes us about three seconds. However, long and long, we're just talking. Maybe point five when Hank was like, uh, uh, huh. I was in the metaverse in the metaverse.

He literally wasn't here. I was no longer in my physical body. And so the question is, does Mark Zuckerberg really think that we need to put on a pair of goggles to experience that when it's already happening? Do these people have any exposure to theory of mind?

Do they understand that consciousness does not exist and it doesn't it like it can exit from the, it could exit from the sensorial experience of the normal body and leave it behind? Not like perpetually or even always, but like sometimes. Sometimes. Yeah.

And I go, man, I'm in the metaverse all the fucking time. My phone tells me every long, how every day, how long I've been in the metaverse every week. Right. And you know, it's a very, it's a very intense experience.

Yeah. Already. When you're, when you're in TikTok, it feels like you're just like bobbing on the ocean. Yeah, man.

Just swimming like a dolphin. I, there's this Annie Dillard essay where she writes about how humans spend all their sleeping lives and much of their waking ones in this sort of like insensate, um, nebulisness. Yeah. And that's what the metaverse is.

And I just don't need, and maybe someday I will, maybe that's the 10 year bet is like people are going to want to go on and on the metaverse, but like right now I can go to the metaverse whenever I want for however long I want with no barrier of entry or exit and then just leave it whenever I need to. Except for my cognitive barrier of exit, which is very high because I desperately don't want that. My mind is like, that all seems very hard out there. Don't leave.

Only leave. Yeah. Even earlier today, I was like, well, you've been scrolling for way too long. Earlier today, I was like, uh, I was, I was scrolling and I was thinking about how they're these two emails I have to answer today.

And I was like, that's going to be later. That's going to, and like, I don't know. I, I'm very conflicted about it. Yeah.

Because I think you're right. I think we enter the metaverse easier than ever. I don't think that we need like fancy tools to enter the metaverse because I don't think entering the metaverse in a deeper way actually is deeper. Well, I think that there are, I think that there are benefits in certain circumstances for sure.

Yeah. And like two weeks they're on. I just don't think that it's going to be a broadly, uh, it's going to be broadly anywhere near as mass adopted as just the smartphone. Yeah.

Or maybe it'll be like, so here's an example. Okay. There used to be a time before pants. Yes.

And then we had pants, right? And it may have been that the people who made pants were like, what's next for a leg coverings? But it was mostly pants. And maybe there were pockets and maybe there were cuffs and maybe there were pants.

Right. There's things that are zingers and clamps. Yeah. The thing was pants.

Right. I think that a lot of people think that this like, what's after the smartphone, but I think the smartphone is pants. And I think that like the pants will continue to get better. But I don't think there's a thing after pants.

I think that there is probably not a thing after pants, except that the there's like also shirts. So I, yeah, but I just, but I don't think there's a thing coming after the smartphone. I think that what that is aimed at. There's lots of other things.

But yeah, the idea that the smartphone, like the iPod happened and the smartphone happened and then the Apple watch and the earbuds, the earbuds happened. Yeah. And then it's going to be something else. Right.

I think that no, of all of those things, the only thing that really happened was the phone is very small screen filled personal devices. Yeah. And the I watch is just another one of those. Yeah.

Apple watch or whatever it's called. And it's not, and it's also not that interesting and like not that widely adopted. It's just another watch. Right.

It is itself a watch, which is something that we've had. So I just, yeah, I think that the, I think that they can't get out of their minds, the idea that there is some other thing that's coming next, but really only one thing happened. And it is very big and very impactful. Right.

And it's, and like it was a very, very good idea and a very powerful combination of technologies, but we're not going to have another one of those. That's what I think. I think that 500 years from now people are going to use it smartphones. I mean, I think I was going to say this.

A long time. That's a long time. Yeah, we're almost done. Do you want to come make a podcast with us?

Yeah. All right. Pressure. Okay.

We'll wrap up here. We'll move to the news from Mars and AFC Wimbledon. Yeah. Okay.

Okay. It's time to transition to the news from Mars and AFC Wimbledon because Sarah just got back to the house. What happened in Wimbledon news, John? Well, as everybody made fun of me for, I watched the Wimbledon game from the beach on Saturday morning, and it was, we were up against the third place team in the lead, Carlisle United.

And oh my God, it was the ugliest, most disjointed game of soccer, the great AFC Wimbledon commentator Mike, Mikey T, at one point said, I don't think anybody's going to be buying the Deluxe Edition 2 DVD set of this game. Bit of a mess. It was hideous, but we drew Neil, Neil. And you know what, if that's what we do for the rest of the season, if we just make good teams look terrible and like kind of absolutely no hope of scoring goals, that's fine.

All right. They're a good team. Yeah, they were Carlisle United. They're in third place.

So I mean, we're, we're, we're still, you know, four or five points out of the playoffs. So we'll see. But we're also well clear for relegation. That's great news.

Yeah. Well, this week in Mars news, NASA is going to be partnering with Blue Origin on an upcoming mission. They're going to be studying Mars's magnetosphere together. It's called Escapade, which every letter is capitalized.

So you want to venture what the first word might be? Elevated. Escape. Space.

No, it's just ES is from escape. Oh, oh, yes. And P. A are all from escape.

Okay. This is my favorite kind of NASA appreciation. So now you got a P. So wait, the E, the S is all from escape.

The C, the A are all from escape. And then there's P-E. P-A, P-A, the escapade. P-A.

So this is P-A. No, this all the rest of them are just one word. Okay. Escape.

P-A-D-A? Plasma. Wait, you said all the rest of them are just one word. I thought it had to be a word that began P-A-D-E.

One word. Sorry. One word escape. Plasma.

Alien. Acceleration. Tismol. Dynamics.