377: Dear Hank and John: Taylor's Version

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Tickets go on sale to the general public June 30th at somethingworthknowing.com. So come build a better world with us on September 16th and experience something worth knowing you can get your ticket at Complexly.info slash something. Welcome to Dear Hank and John! Or as I prefer to call it, Dear John and Hank, Taylor's Version.

That's a fun task for two brothers. Answer your questions, give you a piece of advice and bring you all the weeks news from both Mars and AFC Wilblin. John, about this Taylor Swift person. Exactly how good is she at making clothes and how quick is she at it?

Oh, she's a Swift tailor. That was your joke. That's where I went. I liked it.

You know what? I've consumed a lot of Taylor Swift content over the years and I've never heard that particular riff on her name and so in that way it's impressive. So thank you. This is our first ever episode of Dear Hank and John devoted to a single person.

That single person is Taylor Swift. Somebody asked us if we could stop answering questions and just make an episode about Taylor Swift and we agreed to do that. I actually searched the Dear Hank and John inbox and in it, I just for Taylor Swift and at the top right after I searched it says one of 100 of many. Wow.

There you go. I mean, there's no question about it. Taylor Swift is having a year. I, it's kind of cliche among people of my generation to be like, let's put the music aside and talk about what's really interesting.

And I think I really like Taylor Swift's music and I don't think that the community building is the only interesting thing that she does in her work. I think she does a lot of interesting stuff and I think she's a really, really talented songwriter but I am fascinated by the community building. And so what I want to talk about is, and I do want to talk about my favorite Taylor Swift albums, the concerts I've been to, what was my favorite one, I don't think you've ever been to a Taylor Swift show, Hank, but they're driving. I keep meaning to John.

Yeah, she doesn't come to Missoula that often. I don't know why. No, it's not. It's definitely a trip for me.

Yeah. She comes to Indianapolis most of her most years or most tours, which I am grateful for. So anyway, I wanted to start off by talking about Taylor Swift as community builder because I think that is. I feel like John we're jumping in too fast.

I have some updates I need to hit you with. Okay. Several things. One, we're tossing it up here.

We're mixing it around, we're mashing it together. Got a lot of emails and I saw a lot of buzz about people not being excited to lose the dad jokes. Yeah, no, we should not lose the dad jokes. Yeah, I'm about to do the Nerdfighteria survey in Census.

So I just did the Census analysis by the time this is up, it will be uploaded. It's not right now, but it will be. And the Census is just like a time where we ask questions of the community and learn things about you. I'm gonna ask questions about Dear Hank and John to see what people love instead of just getting the anecdotal data.

But I think that I think if I'm finding joining the dad jokes, I don't care what John feels. I feel the same way. No, it's not about me. This podcast has never been about me.

That's why it's always been called Dear Hank and John. Right. I'm gonna be about you in a couple of years. I'm the ed McMahon of this podcast, you know, like an ace of jobs to say like, yes, it's not surprising to this is gonna be weird.

It's not surprising to me at all that we're not gonna be on Mars in 2028. It is surprising to me that it's gonna be 2028. Absolutely. 100% agree.

The fact that we're not gonna be on Mars in 2028 was totally predictable. The fact that 2028 is going to arrive is an astonishment. Yeah. I mean, both in the term in terms of like, wow, the future keeps occurring.

Yeah. And in terms of, wow, we're still making this podcast. I've been thinking like, when am I, like, what year am I likely to make it to? Well, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'm thinking about that more lately. I'm sure you have 2028. Welcome to my world. I've been trying to tell you, Hank, that mortality is a huge omnipresent problem.

And you've been like, anyway, but suddenly, suddenly you're listening. I don't know what changed. Yeah. I think I'd be happy.

I want a long life. I'm not gonna make any bones about it. Yeah. It doesn't mean that I'm gonna get one, but I just want you to know if I don't have a long life, know that I'm disappointed.

That was that sucked. I didn't wasn't happy about that. Yeah. But anyway, let's talk about Taylor Swift or are we still not ready?

There was also people talking about our considerations of the fixed sponsors and how much they like them, which is nice to hear that you like the fixed sponsors. We'll think about it. We'll feel it out. And also maybe we'll add new segments that you'll like even more.

Yeah. Like maybe it'll just be this week in Taylor. Maybe we'll do the whole podcast every episode. We will turn into a Taylor Swift podcast.

I'd rather turn into a podcast that analyzes the life of a much smaller celebrity, you know? Oh, wow. Just pays a whole lot of attention. Actually, I don't think that what the world needs now is more celebrity news now that I've thought about it.

But here's an episode about Taylor Swift. So listen, yeah, Taylor Swift is a brilliant community builder. And Hank and I have been trying to build communities. Like that's basically what our job has been this entire time.

Yeah. If you ask us like what we do at our core, that's what we want to do when we grow up, I think, and what we've been trying to do for the last 20 years. And Taylor Swift is such a genius at it. And unlike certain other people who were also geniuses at it, like hasn't alienated or abandoned a huge portion of that of that fandom, which is incredibly difficult.

But on a personal level, I just have to say like, this is probably the first fandom that Alice has really, really been a part of. You know, Alice is 10. And she's a huge Swiftie. And it is such a welcoming, lovely group of people to 10 year olds.

Like if nothing against the Mountain Goats fandom, which I am a part of, but like if 10 year olds started showing up and like offering their own critical analysis of Mountain Goats songs, I think most Mountain Goats fans would be like, yeah, right. Okay, sure. But it's so people are so nice to her. Like, I didn't get to go to the Aries tour when Sarah and Alice went, but Sarah told me that like Sarah kept tearing up because people were being so kind to each other and trying to give each other such a wonderful experience.

And like that's ultimately what it's about. Like it's not that special to sit in a movie theater and listen to a three hour concert. It's not that special on its own to like go somewhere and be one of 90,000 people at a concert. But somehow she's created something that is both four and about the other people as much as it's four and about her.

And I just think that's I just think that's extraordinary. Like, and it must be conscious, right? Because she doesn't need money. So this is this is my big Taylor Swift question.

Clearly, and it's because it's a personal question. Clearly you've accomplished a great deal. Like she has, she had an album rerelease that was the largest album of the year. It's not even an existing album.

Well, it had a few new songs, which were very good. So I would argue that it was not entirely, it was very good. But it was new versions. But yeah, I hear what you mean.

I hear what you mean. There were a lot of songs that had been previously released on that album. There's also like there's a story around that. It's obviously not just re-release.

It's also like about artistic freedom and how messed up the music industry is and giving people power over their work. But like I'm on the Taylor Swift merch store right now. And I'm just like, I'm having a really hard time trying to figure out exactly how these snowflakes have been coded because they are behaving pretty strangely. But that's not important.

Yeah, we really need to up our merch game at doing dot store. When I go to Taylor's merch page, I'm always like, oh, wow, well, that's a whole different level. Don't like it. I like it.

I like it. I can shop the tree. Yes, Hank. There's little secrets on the side.

And that's part of what I love about Taylor's whole approach is that there are secrets, there are Easter eggs. You've got to solve puzzles together. Like, you know, to unlock the track list, people had to solve riddles and puzzles by the media together in collaboration. And I just find that kind of stuff so beautiful and cool and fascinating and like wonderful ways of building connections among people.

And that's awesome. But I think your question is, this is a person who's had plenty of success. Why is she still still like selling? What keeps you hungry?

What keeps you hungry for whatever it is? Is it like the records? Is it just the knowledge of what you can do with what you will gain? I'm going to throw it back on you because I think a lot of people's imagination, you know, like obviously Taylor Swift is on a different level from Hank Green.

I'm just going to say, I don't want to hurt your feelings, but that's a reality, right? Like, yeah, if you started dating Travis Kelsey, it wouldn't it would be a news story for sure, but for a different reason. I mean, a lot of ways I think it probably would be bigger news. I'll tell you what, it would be great for us.

I'm not here to tell you to abandon your family and seek a relationship with an NFL star. I think that's a little contrary to the brand, honestly. Oh, no, I think it'd be great for us. At least like we would sell a ton of those socks that you've made.

We'd be in the zeitgeist. We'd be in the zeitgeist. We'd be in the zeitgeist. We'd be in the zeitgeist.

Exactly. That's not your goal. And also, you know, you're married. So there's that.

That's the bet. I really like your spouse. I wouldn't want you to switch spouse. You'll be very good about the current situation.

Yeah. But my point is that you're on a different level from Taylor Swift, but I think in a lot of people's imagination, you're not on that different level. Because you're both in a situation where you don't need to work and yet you work incredibly hard. And so maybe the reason you want to ask Taylor that question is because you want to have an answer for yourself.

Oh, yeah, that is 100% the case. I was doing, as I was reading through the people's responses to the census analysis, it was like, is there anything that you'd like us to know or that you're concerned about? And a lot of people were like, I think Hank is working too hard and I'm worried about his health. Yeah.

And this was in like last December. So it was before the cancer. Yeah. Yeah.

And I'm like, yeah, because this very feels very like maybe I should have been paying more attention to how things were going. Not that I think that my cancer was cost by stress. I do not. But the, it's not just that I got sick.

It is also that having stepped back a little bit, I'm seeing things in a different way. Yeah, you're working like balance with my health. I'm seeing like my, not vitality, but vitalness, like my importance less than I did, which is good. I think that that's healthy.

I think that it's really all sits on Taylor Swift's shoulders, which must be a weird feeling, but I guess she's been feeling it for a long time. Yeah. And that's probably part of it, right? Is that it's not just about Taylor.

Our cousin described this as the Jerry Garcia phenomenon. Now, I think Taylor genuinely loves, and I don't know why I keep calling her Taylor as if I'm acquainted with her. I think Ms. Swift genuinely loves performing and making music and writing songs.

And I think there has to be an element of, you know, that is Tom Waits who has that thing about going out into the meadow, that like when you have a really good session making music with your friends, it's like you went out into the meadow as a way of being with, like you're with people, it's nighttime, you're out in the meadow, you're looking up at the stars, you're having that amazing conversation, you sometimes have a few times in your life with people you love a lot, only you get to have that experience regularly if you're a musician and you have those moments of magic. And I'm sure those moments of magic have to play a huge role. But also there's so many people, you know, like we feel a responsibility to the 130 people or whatever who work with us. I mean, imagine the size of having so much of people's livelihoods contingent upon your work and your decisions.

You know, it's not just like the things you've created. It's what you decide to do next. Right. Like there are a whole company like who makes these Christmas tree ornaments and who is shipping them.

And there's just a lot of, there's a lot of people who are dependent on this idea happening and continuing. And I'm decorating my Taylor Swift Christmas tree right now. And then I can export it and share it. But also I can add all these things to my cart and buy them.

I know. I say, what's Christmas tree ornaments, by the way, this is a lot. I feel like I'm at Disney World. I'm really glad Hank that you're beginning to glimpse how far behind the Taylor Swift store, our store is very, very far behind.

I don't, I don't, honestly, I feel like this is, and I don't mean it in a bad way, but it is a little bit e-commerce from five years to 10 years ago. I love it. I don't. But I think that like the America is much, a much different place than the America that I inhabit and Taylor Swift inhabits the whole America.

That's true. Yeah, which is part of why I'm so fascinated by her ability to like keep that fan community together and strong and productive is because when Nerdfighteria got even a little close to the center of American pop culture, it immediately lost a ton of its activation energy. Right. Yeah.

Well, I don't think that we were going in that direction. Maybe that's hard with it. That way. That's true.

We weren't pulling it in that way, but there was also a real, just like it's a lot harder to keep people together and motivated and productive and feeling like they're part of something when it's much bigger. Like that's just a reality. Yeah. Hank's not listening to me because I hear him clicking and he's like, oh, this isn't a great shop.

I don't know if I love this shop. Meanwhile, he like can't pay attention. He's obsessed with the shop. He's about to buy 600 Taylor Swift ornaments and he's like, oh, no, I mean, this looks like five years ago.

Well, then it doesn't, it ain't making bank like five years ago. It's making bank like 2028. I was actually looking at this question from Emma who asked dear Hank and John, I desperately love Taylor Swift and everything about her and her music, but my boyfriend does not prefer her. No matter how much I tried to show him, my favorite songs or clips of her being an awesome human.

I understand that everyone has to love her music, but how do I get my boyfriend on board? So celebrating everything Taylor is more fun. Emma. That's so hard because when you hear, like anytime you really love something and you share it with someone you love, it's such a naked vulnerable moment.

Yeah. And there's like looking over at them on the couch and I'm like, yeah, I once had a friend do an album listening party of his own album. And I was like, I should not have agreed to do that. That's intense.

It's intense. But I think that I think I actually think that your boyfriend needs to learn to love Taylor Swift. So this is something I feel pretty strongly about in relationships. You don't have to be able to love what the other person loves, but you have to be able to love them loving it.

So I'm never going to be great at pottery. That's something I've learned about myself, whereas Sarah is an excellent, like, you know, pretty much an expert potter. And I don't need to love making pottery, but I need to love Sarah making pottery. And to do that, I need to appreciate enough about making pottery to be like, wow, that is a very good mug.

And I know it's a very good mug because I've made a bad one. Yeah, I've I've know what this is like, that's totally true. And I sometimes I will read a book that Catherine is reading, even though I wouldn't read that book, you know, and I will like the book. But I will also like that Catherine and I have both read the same book and talk about it.

Right. Well, that and that. So I understand like it inherently makes somebody uncomfortable when you're like, Hey, watch this TikTok of Taylor Swift to understand why she's great. I do this all the time with Sarah, where I'll be like, watch this Liverpool goal to understand why it's beautiful.

Well, I'm bringing all kinds of context to that Liverpool goal, thousands of hours of watching soccer context, the childhood of playing soccer context. And Sarah is bringing a different context to that clip and she's not going to be able to enjoy it as much. And it's just asking a lot for me to ask her to love this Liverpool goal. Like, I love it.

But I do think that he should find a way into what you love enough to appreciate your love for it. And maybe that's actually putting less pressure on him or just saying that to him just saying like, God, I really, I don't need you to love this, but I need you to understand why I love it and appreciate that I love it. Right. Yeah.

But that's also like, I don't know, it's a I think that that's like a I'd want to give that advice to the boyfriend. Yeah. I don't know if I can give that advice to you because like, I don't know how to make that happen for you. Like you can have him listen to this podcast, make him listen to this podcast.

Yeah. Because like you can't change a person and be like, Hey, these guys in this podcast said that you should pay more attention to my hobby. Maybe start paying more attention to his hobbies. Maybe be like, Hey, you know what?

I'd like to get a fantasy football member. Maybe that's what the Travis Kelsey thing is all about. It is everybody who can pay attention to each other's hobbies a little better. She's, I wouldn't put that pastor.

She's reneeding America. Yeah, I wouldn't put it pastor to be like, the fabric is coming apart. Unfortunately, it is partly my responsibility to help knit this back together by loving this dopey dopey man. Well, did you listen to?

Well, first off, don't say anything bad about Travis Kelsey hardstop. It's not bad. It's not bad. He's like, he's, I've, he seems kind of dopey.

He's cute way. I think he's incredibly, incredibly charming. I've become a fan of his podcast. Anyway, I, I, it's, in that American guy way, Alice and I are both huge Travis Kelsey fans now.

And she'll watch the NFL with me, but she only watches Travis Kelsey. And then she'll also watch the Colts because we have a friend who's on the Colts and he plays the same position as Travis Kelsey. And so she'll be like, look, there's Kylan in the Travis Kelsey position. I'm like, I don't think Kylan would love that.

Okay. I have a, I have a question, Sean. Okay. And I don't know if it's okay to ask.

Okay. But is, is it the weirder outcome that Travis Kelsey, or is it the better or with a preferred outcome that Travis Kelsey and Taylor Swift have had the ever after or that they break up? Obviously, like it just seems like first off, that isn't an appropriate question. These are real people's real lives and it's easy to lose track of that.

And I understand that, I understand like that's literally how celebrity works is it is that like you stop thinking of the person as a person, like that's the definition of becoming a celebrity is the people that are working on as a person. Which way is it better for America if these two stay together or if they break up? Well, that's probably not a great question. I think what's best is what's best for them.

That's right. What's best for everyone is what's best for them. Yeah. That said, okay.

I mean, I just I want what's best for everyone and which is what's best for them. I'm not going to offer, I'm not going to offer my personal feelings on this topic. I'm just going to say I'm a huge fan of them both. But if they break up, I'm obviously Team Taylor.

It's not going to be that hard for me to walk away from Travis Kelsey. So he should know that he should know that I'm Team Taylor because I know that's a concern for Travis. I know that he thinks about me. Yeah, no, I think I think I think Travis Kelsey is fairly aware of his role in the Swift fandom.

God, I loved all this TikToks where people would say to their sports loving partners, wow, this is really going to put Travis Kelsey on the map. And there's sports like parties would be like, oh, you mean first bow at Hall of Famer Super Bowl winner, Travis Kelsey, Travis Kelsey, maybe the best ever play the position and people would be like, yeah, you know, yeah, sure, whatever, all that. But like, he's famous. He's famous now.

I mean, look, I had never heard of him. Sure. No, I mean, I heard of him, but I didn't spend much time thinking about him. And like, I'm a person who's watched football a bunch, not this year or the last year, but I've done a bunch a bunch.

I've watched more football games than the average person on Earth. Yes, but fewer than the average American of your age. Definitely. Yes.

So let me ask you, Hank, so I've been to two take with concerts. I went to the 1989 tour, went to the reputation tour. I hope to be able to go to the Aries tour when it comes to Indianapolis, but I didn't get tickets in the normal queue. So I've got to try to figure out a solution for that.

Easily your way in. Do some John Greenin. I might have to. I might have to.

I don't want to, but I also am not above it. Anyway, those two concerts were both incredible. But at the 1989 tour, she actually mentioned me and the Fault in Our Stars and like on stage. Yeah.

And was she like, John Green is here. She was like, she was like, someone who wrote one of my favorite love stories is here tonight. Oh, wow. It's John Green.

It's nice to have those little things that you can like, if you get hit by a bus, you can be like, Oh, remember when Taylor Swift said that and then die. It's not a bad memory to go out on. I got to tell you. I just got to go out on the memory of some mortification, you know, like, but it'd be great to go out on memory of joy.

Anyway, the punchline of that story is like Chris and I, my best friend, Chris and I were watching this happen and we were both just jaw on the floor, utterly astonished. And then Sarah and Marina, about five seconds later, emerge next to us with like beers and popcorn. And they're like, Hey, what's going on? We're like, you're not going to believe this.

I can't wait to go to a Taylor Swift concert so that she can be like a guy who made some of my favorite TikToks this year. He did the Donate Grass thing. Science TikTok legend Hank Green's in the house. Wow.

I mean, this is a special evening. No, I mean, I think she did reference that TikTok in her commencement speech that she gave. What? She gave a commencement speech and she said in it, why can't we eat grass just like that?

And I'm convinced that it's because of me and Sydney, maybe making maybe talks about grass, maybe, but it's not it's not I'll just say it. It's not as good as mine. No, John, it's not as good as yours. But when when I go to speaking of which you have a better meeting president's story, because you've met, have you met both of the most recent presidents?

No, you haven't met Donald Trump. No, have you met two out of the three most recent presidents? No, I don't. I don't.

I have never met Joe Biden. Okay, I have. Yeah, so I've, I, but you did you meet Barack Obama in real life? No, never met.

I mean, did you touch the man? I met Barack Obama in real life when he was a state senator and we were both recording pieces for WBEZ. And he was actually doing an interview on the show that I did commentary for. And my buddy, who was my producer and I were listening to him, we like stopped recording to listen to him.

And Justin was like state senator that guy should be president. So that was pretty cool. Yeah. Anyways, I was thinking about I feel that's how I feel when I watch old strong bad emails.

I'm just like, how is this guy not bigger? It's incredible. Don't get it. Incredible.

We're supposed to be talking about Taylor Swift though. Could Taylor Swift be president? Go. Could or should or would I don't I?

I don't think she would run because I don't I it's like Dolly Parton. Okay. Like there was that great podcast that the radio lab folks made where they talked about how we live in Dolly Parton's America and Dolly Parton is one of the few great unifying things about America. If Dolly Parton ran for president, it would be a catastrophe because yeah, for America and for Dolly Parton, right, totally because what what she does the gift she gives us is reaching across every possible divide reaching across all the divisions and doing so by supporting things that like are universally in favor of but don't pay enough attention to like childhood right like childhood literacy doesn't get people fired up.

It's not like people are making tick talks about how much they love and or hate child literacy because it's just not that kind of topic. But somebody like Dolly Parton can come in and say well but it is really important and I'm going to ask you to pay attention to it. Yeah, which will be a very interesting thing to see over the next you know decades of Taylor Swift's career. Like what is the yeah where do the focus is start to focus?

I think that Taylor Swift could make a pretty good good store. You know, yes, you could go Paul Newman and that would be pretty amazing. I think Taylor Swift could make a great good. But yeah, yeah, why would you why would Taylor Swift sign up to have half of America hate her when obviously we're going to have all of America love her.

But there's also the part where like the job isn't that good and I'm not sure that the oh that's a great point. Yes. I also don't think that she would be a particularly good president not that I don't think that she's an extraordinarily capable person. It's just that you have to build up a bunch of new relationships and skills.

Yeah, probably. I mean, I I don't think I don't think anybody's ready for that job. I think it's like having a kid, you know, like you never read it. And so I don't really buy the argument that some of these been in the Senate for 40 years is ready because Taylor Swift's been the boss of way more people than a senator has.

On the other hand, you know, there's all there's all the political diplomatic parts of being president. The complicated dynamics of how power flows through a constitutional republic that is I said, they could say to say strangled by money. And like all of that stuff is harder to navigate if you don't have experience doing it, which like somebody who's been in Congress for 40 years does. So there's different kinds of experience that can lend itself to that job.

But the main thing is that it would be, I mean, almost a step down. Yeah, no, I did I did have that feeling as I was watching the helicopter land on the White House lawn and then Barack Obama walk out of it. I was like, that looks like a bad job. Oh, God.

It was like there were three helicopters too, because there was like two decoys, just in case. So stressful. Yeah. No, I was just about that.

Sure. Oh, God. And not just that. It's just, you know, you have to make horrible decisions.

You have to make decisions that alienate people. You it just it just seems like a terrible like you have to call people on the worst day of their lives. A bunch of teams like a hard job. Yeah.

So, okay. The other time I went to a Twitter switch concert was the reputation to her. I had an awesome time, almost arguably too good of a time. Was it okay when she didn't mention you?

How did it? Did you feel? Yeah, I wasn't like heartbroken. Once was plenty, man.

But actually that time I did get to see her and she asked me a bunch about you. She was like, I know your brother has a book coming out and I really wanted to be about TikToks. No, it was before TikTok because it was reputation. So, but yeah, she and I did talk a bunch about you.

So how did she know this stuff? I don't know, man. She had like a person who like whispers in her eyes like this person. She's on a different, she's on a different level from us.

Hank, she probably has a different memory level. Like it's like one time I met Melinda Gates. I Melinda Gates walked up to me and she was like, it's so nice to meet you. I said, thank you.

And she looked at Sarah and she said, and you must be Sarah. I feel like I get briefings. Okay, but I get briefings, man. I get briefings before I do get briefings before I get briefings.

Before like a big staff meeting and you're like looking through the Facebook and you're like, I like before before partners in health trustees. Oh my god. Like if I'm going to meet like the partners and health donors and try to convince them to increase their support for tuberculosis or whatever, you don't think they give me briefings and then I immediately goes through one eye and out the other. I did not have site works.

Yeah, because you have the one laser eye. It's a projector. I mean, I'm not. It sucks in the image and the one that shoots it out.

Right? I mean, I think that's how it works. It also is not how it works with ears. So it's actually it's true.

One year and out, the other is equally. Yeah. One year and a speaker. You got to hear and you got to trumpet.

You never know which one's which. Yeah. The point is that I have no ability to do that kind of thing. And when people do do it, like Chelsea Clinton is another person I've met who does that and you're just like, wow, like I guess you were trained from birth to do it, but it's still incredibly impressive.

Yeah. So anyway, she mentioned my books. What else did she say? Available now still still very popular.

What else? I don't remember. We just had a conversation. And anyway, like I do think that like some of that like sometimes when you like I think that I think to some extent that stuff should stay private.

But anyway, yeah, I love both those albums. 1989, for me, is the album of the Paper Towns movie because we were all singing it all the time, the entire time we were making the Paper Towns movie. And actually, there's a scene in the movie where there were two versions, one, they sang the Pokemon song and the other, they sang a Taylor Swift song from 1989. And Taylor generously agreed to allow us to do that, although they ended up going with the Pokemon song.

I thought the other version was great. But it's just like still I listened to that album and it just takes me right back to that place. But now, and this is something I love about music, I listened to it and it takes me back to both that place and to Alice now, like to Alice's just utter enthusiasm. Like she and her best friend are, they do not think about anything or talk about anything other than Taylor Swift.

It's like Nerdfighters in 2008, like she is hardcore. That's great. I love it. I'm so proud of her.

Like it just makes me so happy that she's found this awesome fandom. It's great. So 1989, so that makes me think of Paper Towns. Yeah, it's when it's not really like hit me as like Super Stardom and like every song that I heard come off of that album was a massive hit and very good.

I remember once at like 9.30 at night being at my local grocery store, which is like half the size of a normal grocery store, but still a very good grocery store. And like shake it off was on the radio and everyone I walked past was visibly dancing. Like nodding their heads or like singing along, but I was like, am I in a music video right now? Well, it does make you want to get down to these sick beats.

Yeah, I think that I think a lot like it's also the place it's like the place that it's got a normal amount of beer, like it's got like a regular grocery store amount of beer and like half of everything else. So it's kind of the beer grocery store and I think it's sort of a had a couple drinks. Yeah, people are stocking back up a lot at 9.30 at night on a Friday. And yeah, but I also we performed that song on tour.

Yeah. And I love performing at people go freaking crazy. They know every word. I know every word because I sang it a bunch of times on stage.

And it's just so it's so fun. But obviously that like that album it just and like they're all quite different from each other. You know, they're all very different. Yeah, the era is that reputation is very different from 1989 is very different from red is very different from focal or is very different from mid nights.

Yeah, I love reputation. I think it's an amazing album. That show was incredible. It was like an astonishment.

It was like performance art. I don't know how it's described. It was just there were so many snakes. There were so many like little knives snakes little no way better.

My favorite kind of snakes fake ones. And it was just the whole performance was just incredible. But so many of the songs on reputation are songs that I like sing to like get me fired up like when we were taking on this pharmaceutical companies. But like that stuff is really hard for me.

I don't I'm not a natural like like advocate or activist. Like, you know, like I don't like it when people don't like me. And I think it's safe to say that the executives at some of those pharmaceutical companies don't like me. And I really it is well for whatever reason, I don't have to get into it too deeply.

But it's very hard for me. And I would play that one song that goes, she don't start but she can tell you how it ends. So like, all right, I didn't start this. Yeah, but I think we can tell them how it ends.

There are graveyards full of my enemies. Can you believe that Elon Musk unironically tweeted their graveyards full of my enemies? I mean, they're a graveyard full of my enemies. But like, I don't talk about it.

It's embarrassing. You should be embarrassed of the graveyards full of your enemies. Yeah, yeah. I look at the graveyards full of my enemies and I'm kind of sad.

Like, yeah, I didn't put them there. They did it to themselves, man. Exactly. I think I have the power to put my enemies into graveyards.

No, like, yeah. And then I felt a little bit of glee when it first happened. And I feel guilty about that glee because I didn't feel right. I did feel like, I have I have a few people from the like days of YouTube who I always knew were bad.

And then you got a little you got a little bit of shot to be even worse than I thought. And yeah, when I first I was like, ha, ha, and I'm just sad, you know, that's the thing. The jolt's of the one thing I've noticed about my life, I think, as I've gotten older is that the jolt's of shot and Freud, I feel I used to feel very purely and they used to really motivate me. Like I was so motivated by resentment.

But now like whenever I get that feeling of shot and Freud, I'm always like now because I've seen the other side of it, I've seen that you eventually journey to that like feeling of like, Oh, I shouldn't I shouldn't celebrate misery and pain. I always just now I like I feel preemptively guilty. So like, I have the shot and Freud and then like within 30 seconds, it's all gone. But we shouldn't we shouldn't knock graveyards full of my enemies too much because this podcast is brought to you by the new metallic album, Graveyard's full of my enemies.

I mean, it's not impossible that Taylor could make a song called Graveyard's full of my enemies. I don't think it'd be a full album. But I feel like she could pull that off in a way that Elon Musk can't and that's an important thing for both Taylor and Elon to understand. Yeah, but today's podcast, of course, is also brought to you by Taylor Allison Swift, Taylor Allison Swift.

Anytime that I say Taylor Swift in our home, my daughter corrects me and says, Alison Swift because her name needs that level of respect. This podcast is also brought to you by whatever's best for them, whatever is best for them is best for us. And today's podcast is brought to you by the Good Store, our actual sponsor. They didn't pay us for this slot.

And indeed, they don't pay us for anything. Good dot store where 100% of the profits go to charity. You can get amazing holiday gifts like soap and coffee and socks like the socks that hang design when he was in chemo. And look, I'll be honest with you.

Is it as good as Taylor's merch store? No, but I think the I think the products might not be like they might be better. Oh, yeah, we've got great products. Yeah, the doesn't like we don't have like a whole house you can shop through and a bunch of Easter eggs.

Maybe I'll throw an Easter egg or two on the site. I'll try. I'll try for you. Why don't we give your Hank and John listeners a special discount Hank?

Okay, I will do it right now. It's going to be it's going to be called that you use the discount podcast ad podcast ad classic a classic of the genre. That we will know where you came from. That's what you wanted to do.

What else dad? P O D C A S T A D podcast ad that's not it's not fun at all. I really I really like swift on making that one fun. No, I think that's so fun.

That's such a good. Are you kidding? I'm blown away by your creativity. And you get and if you put any if you put in offer code podcast and yeah, when you're checking out, you will receive 10% off of your entire order.

Whoa, it's generous. It's generous considering that's only for the first two partners in health only for the first 200 people. Okay. Oh, that's a proper podcast ad.

That's right. That illusion of scarcity. Good dot store. I could actually set it so that it's not an illusion of scarcity.

There's real scarcity. It's manufactured scarcity. Not different. It's very, very important distinction.

Good dot store. It doesn't sound like a URL, but it is beautiful. That should be the real tagline, John. This episode of your Hank and John is brought to you by Shopify.

There are a lot of things that stand between I have an idea and this is an idea that actually exists in the world and people are buying things from me. And that is what Shopify makes easier when you start with Shopify, the tools to design and launch and take payments. They're all there from day one. You don't have to build a whole machine before you can start building the business.

And this is important because you also have to like look good and with Shopify templates, you could get a site set up really quick that looks credible and professional without needing to code or duct tape a bunch of different tools together. And when things look real, that works on my brain to be like, I'm doing a real thing. It also works on other people's brains to be like, this is legitimate. Shopify also has one of the best checkout systems on the internet.

It's built to help customers finish the purchase effectively and efficiently without a bunch of roadblocks. Returning customers can check out with a single click. That means less friction and fewer abandoned carts and a smoother experience for everybody. That stuff gives you confidence early on and it gives other people confidence in what you're doing.

You're not wondering whether the payment system is going to work. You're not wondering whether customers can get through the process. Shopify handles that foundation so you can focus on the thing that you're actually trying to do. It's really kind of amazing to me the Shopify as a tool that works from the first day your store launches when you're just starting to kick customers all the way up to being the size of good.store or dftva.com or being the size of like Mattel and Gymshark.

When you build a Shopify, you're building with tools that already work at every scale. All you need is the idea Shopify handles the rest. You can start your free trial at Shopify.com slash deerhank. Start your free trial at Shopify.com slash deerhank.

With new subscription only, while supplies last until September 27th, 2026. See website for more details. One thing I love about summer is how easy everything feels. The days are a little more relaxed.

My kids don't have to wake up at five in the morning and I find myself reaching for the same comfortable go anywhere pieces again and again which is why I keep coming back to Quince. I often wear either a long sleeve or a short sleeve button down from Quince and it fits well and I never have any complaints. In fact, sometimes I get compliments about it. I was at the airport a couple days ago.

I often find myself in airports and someone said I like your shirt and I said thanks. It's from Quince. Quince is 100% European linen pants and shirts are breathable, easy to throw on and the summer upgrade your rotation needs starting at just $34. Their teas are soft enough to live in all day and the lightweight cotton sweaters are exactly what you want when those summer nights cool down.

So that's why I'm wearing Quince this summer and you can make your summer wardrobe easier by going to quince.com slash deer hank for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too that's q-u-i-n-c-e dot com slash deer hank for free shipping and 365 day returns quince.com slash deer hank. This episode of Deer hank and John is brought to you by Factor. Imagine for a moment that you are absolutely immersed in some work where you're creating something beautiful or useful or useless and ugly but you love it anyway and you look up and suddenly you have a feeling and that feeling is that it is 2.30 p.m.

and that you did not eat lunch. What are you gonna do? Are you gonna get meal delivery that's gonna cost too much and maybe be a bit of a mistake or are you gonna go to the cupboard and just eat several fistfuls of peanuts. Those are my two choices unless I have a factor in the fridge.

You can get smoky barbecue chicken breast with potato mashed cream corn and peppers. You can get creamy lemon pepper chicken with veggie rice peel off broccoli and carrots. This has the fiber I need. It has the protein I need and it has the delicious ness I need.

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Any of those can be ready in two minutes. Fresh, never frozen, over 100 rotating weekly meals, including globally inspired flavors like Mediterranean and Asian, Factor shops, Preps, Cooks and Delivers straight to your door so you have more time for everything. You love this spring. Head to factormeals.com slash deer hank 50 off and use the code deerhank50off to get 50% off and free daily greens per box with new subscription only while supplies last until September 27th, 2026.

See website for more details. This next question comes from Sid who asks deerhank and John please please re-release the eras to her pizza John shirt. I'm a lover of Taylor Swift and a nerd fighter and this crossover is a one I did not know I needed. I'm a student who was too busy to be involved in pizza miss.

I missed the incredible opportunity. Please not a base. A Sid. Ah ha.

I had to say it to get. Oh, oh, a Sid. A Sid. Yes.

Yes. No. P.S. You can always just send me one size small.

Maybe. But we're not releasing the shirt. No, we can't re-release the shirt. But if if there's a size small still in the warehouse after we ship everything out, Sid, maybe I'll get you in touch with Abbier Josh and they can see what they can do.

Are you gonna do that right now? Because if you don't do it right now, you're never gonna do it. I'll just tell you that right now. Point John.

It's a good point. To all the people who are listening to this and you're thinking, wow, I should really ask Kenke John for a free shirt. Next time I send them an email, don't do that. Don't do it.

But I know it's just asking for a shirt. It's not gonna happen. It's also not gonna happen. Also, if it's silly, that is gonna make your life better.

I think we've got a pretty good chance of being able to get one small shirt to Sid. Yes. I'm not totally confident. But I think we've got a chance just based on our order numbers versus our order numbers, if that makes sense.

Yes, it does. Okay. All right. Just a couple of high level good story executives doing the work right here.

Right. John Green. Do you think Taylor sets the um sets the discount code? Podcast ad.

I'll tell you what, if she does, she has something better than podcast. Yeah, I could have been like Taylor Swift is the greatest, Swiftie, could have been eyeball projector, could have been anything. Yeah, no, I like podcast ad a lot. That way, we'll know that it's from the podcast.

It will help us if we'd invented a different one that was podcast specific, in which case we never could have part. I also have to email and say that we're setting up this podcast. Because I do this all the time where I'm like, I set up a code and they're like, where does code come from? We get in trouble.

Yeah. I just actually, it's funny, you should say that because I just got in trouble for making a TikTok without telling anybody. Oh, good for you, John. All right.

Hey, unfortunately, we've reached the end of our delicious hour discussing the work of Taylor, Alice and Swift full respect on the name. This has been a delight. I'd love to do it again, but I don't want to do it for another person. I only want to do it for Taylor Swift.

Yeah, I completely agree. But I do like the idea of doing special sometimes. Yeah. Especially because we have so many questions in the inbox.

We can just search for anything and find a nice to do an Napoleon special, you know, that we can try. Let's see. Let's see if we have an important watching Phoenix, see if he's interested in talking to us about the life of Napoleon. Yes.

This, this says, I'm genuinely concerned with your knowledge and opinions on pop culture. You have so many hot takes. They are entertaining those who keep in coming. I'd love to hear your opinions on Napoleon Dynamite since I'm from Idaho.

That's not the Napoleon I meant. Yeah, but it's still it's a good quality cold take, you know, right? That's a that's freezing. That's freezing cold.

I loved Napoleon Dynamite. Sadie, I have a controversial take on Napoleon Dynamite, which is that I think it's good, but not as good as that Will Ferrell ice skating movie. You know, I've never seen that, but I've heard it's great. It's so good.

It's so good. It's delicious. All right, Hank, thank you for potting with me. Thanks everybody for your questions, Taylor Swift and otherwise you can email us at Hank.

We not have Mars and news. Oh, you want to do Mars news? I don't know. Do you have do you have news?

Yeah, I always go. I think that they play every week. Okay, here's some news. So big news from AFC Wimbledon is that our we were supposed to play the franchise currently playing it's trading Milton Keynes over the weekend, but they pulled out because they were like, Oh, no, we can't do it.

We have so many players reporting for international duty and Tiqua and Barbados. And it's just not possible, even though they're players who don't start for us. And we were like, that's fine. Ali al-Hamedi has to go play for Iraq and he's overwhelmingly our best players.

So you thought you were like pulling a fast one on us, but actually we're hugely relieved. So no game against Milton Keynes. It got moved. Instead, I got to watch Ali al-Hamedi play for the Iraqi national team.

And one intrepid AFC Wimbledon fan flew to Vietnam in order to support Ali al-Hamedi in Iraq's game against Vietnam. And that's the kind of thing that we need to do more of if we want to hold on to this guy in the January transfer window. We need to make him feel so loved. He is the best.

Some people say he is the Taylor Swift of kicking balls into nets. He's a genius, an unparalleled, great 21 year old. And we just want to keep you till you're 22. Okay, then you can go, then you can go live your dream plan to Premier League, take Iraq to the World Cup, do all the amazing things you're going to do.

Just stay tome. Well, in Mars News, Devoki says, I wanted to find something Taylor Swift related, but everything was about astrology charts. So instead, we have a story about the one thing Taylor Swift doesn't do, rest. This week in Mars News, we have entered and left Mars Solar conjunction, the face that happens every two years where the sun is between us and Mars.

During the Mars Solar conjunction, we cannot communicate with spacecrafts on Mars because there's a sun in the way, which is a really big thing that produces a lot of radiation. So to protect the missions, things go on a kind of little hiatus. No one sends any instructions to the spacecrafts, but the spacecrafts can still do a little bit of work on their own because they're smart and they can do stuff. They'll just have to wait until the conjunction ends to send their data back.

NASA stops sending signals on November 11th and it began again on November 25th. So it's just like a nice little Thanksgiving break. Yeah, weirdly enough, it's during Thanksgiving, which of course, it is not always. Hopefully they had some great, they all gave thanks on Mars.

And I don't think that they could eat food, but hopefully the solar power that they consumed was sort of gravy-tinged. I just want to say this Thanksgiving, I'm very grateful for you, Hank, and grateful that we get to make this podcast again. And I know we're not going to be together in real life for Thanksgiving, so I just wanted to say that I am very, very grateful this particular Thanksgiving. I'm grateful for you as well and all of your support because it was a lot and it was very helpful and it felt very good to be loved and supported.