41. Talking Messy First Drafts with Claudia Zuluaga

What this episode covers

John and Laura talk with Claudia Zuluaga—author of Fort Starlight and longtime creative writing teacher at John Jay College—about the art of surviving your messy first draft. Together, they explore why messy drafts are essential, how to push past perfectionism, and strategies to keep going when the words feel chaotic. A conversation full of honesty and insight, this episode reminds us that the first draft’s job is simply to exist.

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Frequently Asked Questions

How long is this episode of People Who Do Things?

This episode is 57 minutes long.

When was this People Who Do Things episode published?

This episode was published on September 24, 2025.

What is this episode about?

John and Laura talk with Claudia Zuluaga—author of Fort Starlight and longtime creative writing teacher at John Jay College—about the art of surviving your messy first draft. Together, they explore why messy drafts are essential, how to push past...

Can I download this People Who Do Things episode?

Yes, you can download this episode by clicking the download button on the episode player, or subscribe to the podcast in your preferred podcast app for automatic downloads.