456 - Gavin Ortlund - Who Can Be Saved?

I had a discussion with Gavin Ortlund about the Orthodox Church's position on salvation outside the church.YouTube version: https://youtu.be/RtC8ENpbOW4Buy Little Red Riding Hood now during the month of June and get the audiobook with for free: https://store.thesymbolicworld.com/Join Seraphim Hamilton in studying the Book of Isaiah this June. Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-fifth-gospel Timestamps00:00 Introduction and background to the discussion03:08 Steelmanning each other’s positions04:12 Gavin summarizes the Orthodox view of salvation05:37 Jonathan explains salvation as healing and theosis06:36 Normative and non-normative ways of salvation08:13 Jonathan summarizes Gavin’s historical argument10:53 Gavin clarifies his thesis about Orthodoxy, Catholics, and Protestants16:40 Is the modern Orthodox view a return to earlier tradition?18:32 Gavin explains why the 9th–19th century period matters20:20 Disagreement over whether individuals can be declared damned22:57 Jonathan responds on Orthodox theological boundaries24:54 Debate over the 9th century and the Photian schism31:32 The question: Is Gavin a Christian brother?38:37 The Synod of Jerusalem and Protestant theology41:36 Jonathan reads from the Synod of Jerusalem43:56 Gavin responds to Jonathan’s use of an old blog post46:42 Gavin outlines the Synod’s language about Protestants49:12 Jonathan argues synods define norms, not individual destinies52:28 Gavin challenges the “normative” reading of the Synod55:20 Normative texts, dogmatic authority, and qualifications58:13 Theophan the Recluse and hope for the non-Orthodox01:04:16 St. Philaret of Moscow and leaving souls to God’s mercy01:09:35 Protestant missions in Orthodox lands01:11:23 Gavin defends Protestant missionary theology01:13:30 Jonathan critiques Protestant evangelism and denominationalism01:16:21 The Eucharist, communion, and institutional exclusivism01:18:16 Gavin explains why he is not Orthodox01:20:44 Jonathan on Christ’s presence and God’s desire to save all01:21:59 Are Protestants categorized like Buddhists or Muslims?01:25:36 Salvation as transformation into the image of Christ01:28:55 Theophan’s advice: focus on your own salvation01:30:06 Personal holiness and evangelism01:32:18 Calvinism, evangelism, and divine decree01:36:52 Predestination, foreknowledge, and the River of Fire01:39:59 Closing the theological discussion01:40:33 Gavin’s apology and reflections on online discourse01:42:59 A call for patient Protestant-Orthodox dialogue01:44:12 Jonathan’s closing thanks🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau  🎧 Listen to and review The Symbolic World podcast:-Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5-Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488 Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/