PODCAST · education
The Symbolic World
by Jonathan Pageau
Jonathan Pageau looks at symbolism in all its forms, from its source in sacred stories and images to contemporary culture and ultimately how it shapes the world we encounter.
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473 - Fr. Andrew Stephen Damick - Paradise Is Already Breaking Into the World
Story time with Fr. Andrew! In this episode with Fr. Andrew Damick, we explore the symbolism of paradise through a fairy tale, a Norse saga, and the Christian tradition. We look at how the path to paradise is often revealed through humility, sacrifice, death, and transformation —and how these old stories can help us understand the relationship between heaven and earth. YouTube version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wwp36RyLkPQJoin us this September in Oxford for a Symbolic World Summit (there are literally only 5 or so tickets remaining): https://symbolicworldsummit.com/ Register now for the Universal History Masterclass hosted by Dcn. Seraphim Rohlin, taking place live this August and September. https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/universal-history-masterclass
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472 - Universal History: The Story Gets Stranger After the Flood
Part 4. Deacon Seraphim and I continue our journey through the strange world surrounding Noah, the Flood, and the ancient traditions that grew up around Genesis. We get into the Ark, Adam, Melchizedek, sacrifice, priesthood, and a few details I had genuinely never heard before. There’s a lot here that changes the way the story fits into the larger pattern of Scripture.YouTube version: https://youtu.be/-hjCU9Xp3-cJoin us September 24–26, 2026 for a summit, hosted by Symbolic World in St Giles’, Oxford, United Kingdom at Pusey House: https://symbolicworldsummit.com/Register now for the Universal History Masterclass: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/universal-history-masterclass Price: $180 USD (Get 10% off if you're an Involved patron)Course Length: 6 weeks, 12 hoursLive classes are on Wednesdays at 3-5 pm Eastern Time, starting August 5th through September 9th, 2026🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.comOur website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
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471 - Martin Shaw - The Odyssey, the Underworld, and Resurrection
I sat down with Martin Shaw to talk about the underworld and the deep pattern of descent and return. He also gave his own fresh perspective on Christopher Nolan’s The Odyssey movie. We explored what it means to come home changed, how these ancient stories illuminate the Bible, and why resurrection is inseparable from the journey through death.YouTube version: https://youtu.be/vLHZ-IQzltAJoin us September 24–26, 2026 for a summit, hosted by Symbolic World in St Giles’, Oxford, United Kingdom at Pusey House: https://symbolicworldsummit.com/=====Into the Underworld: Tales of Spiritual Initiation in Martin Shaw’s online course that launches in September. It's Martin's most ambitious course yet, venturing into entirely new territory: stories from the Bible and the lives of the Saints.The course includes more than 6 hours of recorded teaching from a live workshop, plus a limited number of seats for an intimate series of live lectures and interaction over Zoom. Enrollment will be open for a limited time, and space for live sessions is scarce - sign up for the waitlist at JAWBONESTORIES.COM to get early access to Enrollment. Also, get a special surprise from Martin just for joining the waitlist! https://www.jawbonestories.com/ In this course, Martin will tell and teach on: Joseph, Jacob and Esau, Ruth and Naomi, Blind Tobit, The Voyage of Brendan, St. Patrick's Bell.=====Register now for the Universal History Masterclass: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/universal-history-masterclass http://www.thesymbolicworld.comOur website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
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470 - What Mockery of Masculinity Really Looks Like: Masters of the Universe VS The Odyssey
In this video, I compare The Odyssey and Masters of the Universe to explore two very different visions of masculinity and heroism. While one reduces masculine strength to fantasy, insecurity, and mockery, the other confronts its dangers while still moving toward repentance, reconciliation, and the return home. The difference is not simply political. It is the difference between a story that despises the hero and one that seeks to restore him.Join us September 24–26, 2026 for a summit, hosted by Symbolic World in St Giles’, Oxford, United Kingdom at Pusey House: https://symbolicworldsummit.com/Register now for the Universal History Masterclass: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/universal-history-masterclass Price: $180 USD (Get 10% off if you're an Involved patron)Course Length: 6 weeks, 12 hoursLive classes are on Wednesdays at 3-5 pm Eastern Time, starting August 5th through September 9th, 2026🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau 🎧 Listen to and review The Symbolic World podcast:-Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5-Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488 Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
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469 - Luke Burgis - The One and the Many
It's not hard to find your tribe. The real challenge today is not losing yourself within one. Luke Burgis and I discuss why we struggle as modern people to belong without losing ourselves, how technology fragments our desires, why family, friendship, and real communion are essential to becoming a person, and also the opposite, that to really connect with others you must be true to yourself.YouTube version: https://youtu.be/bZfRs9TWSIgLuke's book, The One and the Ninety-Nine: https://www.amazon.com/One-Ninety-Nine-Forging-Identity-Contagion-ebook/dp/B0FLYVP6WDJoin us September 24–26, 2026 for a summit, hosted by Symbolic World in St Giles’, Oxford, United Kingdom at Pusey House: https://symbolicworldsummit.com/Register now for the Universal History Masterclass: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/universal-history-masterclass Price: $180 USD (Get 10% off if you're an Involved patron)Course Length: 6 weeks, 12 hoursLive classes are on Wednesdays at 3-5 pm Eastern Time, starting August 5th through September 9th, 2026Timestamps:00:00 – Coming up02:38 – Introduction02:52 – Luke Burgess and The One and the Ninety-Nine03:19 – The tension between individuality and belonging04:10 – The lost sheep, the one, and the many06:30 – Why the modern self has become fragile08:57 – When celebrating difference turns into isolation10:50 – Why “selling out” no longer carries the same stigma12:01 – Differentiation, imitation, and false individuality12:55 – Choosing a vocation beyond market niches15:18 – Symbolic World Summit in Oxford17:31 – How technology reshapes the human person18:02 – Social media as a source of mimetic desire20:02 – Why online models become so powerful20:48 – Technology, distraction, and the loss of strong desire23:09 – Parasocial relationships and vicarious participation24:42 – Can religious identity become another performance?25:22 – Thin religion, online faith, and performative belonging27:39 – Receiving an identity rather than inventing one29:22 – Suffering, friction, and the consequences of the Fall31:56 – Is it acceptable to “fake it until you make it” spiritually?33:38 – False piety and performative religion34:51 – The danger of the online “Orthobro”36:16 – The family as a school of communion38:32 – Differentiating yourself from your family40:57 – Homogenization versus communion41:09 – Teenage rebellion as hostile individuation42:00 – Rebellion as a substitute rite of passage43:51 – Why identity must serve something higher45:43 – The family should not become an isolated unit47:26 – Does it take a village to raise a child?48:47 – When political identity is built through opposition49:34 – Internal family systems and the divided self52:23 – How algorithms feed fragmented parts of ourselves53:21 – Monetizing anger and online performance54:56 – What hope is there for young people?55:47 – Give young people a name, not a niche58:05 – Communities we cannot easily abandon01:00:04 – Choosing deliberately what previous generations inherited naturally01:02:25 – Friendship, commitment, and cultural renewal01:04:03 – Final thoughts on individuation and communion🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau 🎧 Listen to and review The Symbolic World podcast:-Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5-Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488 Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
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468 - Universal History: Rohlin vs Pageau: The Problems With Nolan’s Odyssey
Deacon Seraphim Rohlin joins me for an emergency Universal History episode to debate Christopher Nolan’s adaptation of The Odyssey. We discuss what the film gets right and where it misunderstands the ancient world.YouTube version: https://youtu.be/lKIxTvWNDNwJoin us September 24–26, 2026 for a summit, hosted by Symbolic World in St Giles’, Oxford, United Kingdom at Pusey House: https://symbolicworldsummit.com/Register now for the Universal History Masterclass: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/universal-history-masterclass Price: $180 USD (Get 10% off if you're an Involved patron)Course Length: 6 weeks, 12 hoursLive classes are on Wednesdays at 3-5 pm Eastern Time, starting August 5th through September 9th, 2026🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau 🎧 Listen to and review The Symbolic World podcast:-Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5-Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488 Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
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467 - Nolan’s The Odyssey Full Breakdown: The Post World War 2 Consensus Movie We Need
Spoiler alert. In this video, I offer a full symbolic breakdown of Christopher Nolan’s The Odyssey, going through the entire film sequence by sequence to examine its use of trickery, guilt, hospitality, memory, and the return of the father. I explain that I think Nolan is deliberately unsettling both the left and the right, and why the story he tells is definitely a contemporary retelling, but ultimately more traditional than many viewers realize – and that’s exactly why it’s needed in our world right now.YouTube version: https://youtu.be/ESIzQNfmAo4Register for Universal History Masterclass during the month of July and get 15% off: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/universal-history-masterclass 🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau 🎧 Listen to and review The Symbolic World podcast:-Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5-Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488 Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
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466 - Malcolm Guite - Old Stories Know Secrets That We Have Forgotten
Malcolm Guite is a poet and Anglican priest. He is a Life Fellow of Girton College, Cambridge and lives in Norfolk, England. He lectures widely in England and North America on Theology and Literature. His books include Sounding the Seasons; Seventy Sonnets for the Christian Year (Canterbury 2012). The Singing Bowl; Collected Poems (Canterbury 2013) and Parable and Paradox (Canterbury Press 2016) and Mariner: A Voyage with Samuel Taylor Coleridge (Hodder 2017) After Prayer (Canterbury Press 2019) and The Word Within the Words (DLT 2021) and Lifting The Veil, Square Halo, 2021.In 2023 he was awarded the Archbishop Lanfranc Medal for Education and Scholarship by the Archbishop of Canterbury.He is presently working on Merlin’s Isle: an Arthuriad a four volume epic poem on The Arthurian legendsHe has a Youtube series called ‘A Spell in the Library’ at https://www.youtube.com/c/MalcolmGuitespellYouTube version of this episode: https://youtu.be/E5En6DZTYFkGalahad and the Holy Grail: https://store.rabbitroom.com/products/merlins-islePatrons of The Symbolic World can watch the 30 minute documentary here: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/premium-content/merlins-isleSubscribe here if you’re not already a patron: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribeRegister for Universal History Masterclass during the month of July and get 15% off: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/universal-history-masterclass 🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.comTimestamps:00:00 – Coming up01:29 – Introduction03:05 – Malcolm Guite’s Calling as Priest and Poet06:39 – Can the Imagination Be Dangerous?09:27 – Imagination as the Organ of Meaning11:58 – Fantasy, Escapism, and Enchantment15:46 – Why Arthurian Stories Resist Modernization19:57 – Galahad and the Grail21:20 – What Arthurian Stories Reveal About Human Brokenness23:27 – The Scope of Malcolm’s Arthurian Project26:05 – The Dolorous Stroke and the Origin of the Wasteland30:54 – “You Live in Just Such a World”33:20 – The Wasteland as a Pattern of Reality37:51 – Recovering the Christian Meaning of the Grail40:44 – Universal History Masterclass42:42 – Why Malcolm Chose the Ballad Form44:59 – The Collapse of the Materialist Worldview49:41 – Remembering Without Falling into Unreason51:46 – Tradition as Active Remembrance53:19 – Tradition as the Roots of a Living Tree54:40 – How Irony Destroys Old Stories57:56 – Daring to Be Naive Again58:28 – The Four-Volume Arthurian Series59:54 – Why the Beauty of the Book Matters01:01:10 – Chivalry, Masculinity, and the Civilized Warrior01:02:23 – Fellow Travelers in the Recovery of MeaningOur website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
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465 - The Odyssey is Christopher Nolan's Trick
In this video, I discuss Christopher Nolan’s highly anticipated new film adaptation of The Odyssey after watching it at the premiere.YouTube version: https://youtu.be/K3wkrDbRgDsSign up for the Universal History Masterclass during the month of July and get 15% off: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/universal-history-masterclass🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
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464 - Logos Cinema: Orthodox films, TV shows, and documentaries - streaming now! Get a discount.
I speak with Andrew Stokich, co-founder of Logos Cinema, about building a home for beautiful Christian storytelling. We discuss the limits of modern Christian film, the need to recover deeper symbolic stories, and Logos Cinema’s vision for supporting Orthodox filmmakers and audiences.Special discount link: https://www.logoscinema.com/the-symbolic-world-summit YouTube version: https://youtu.be/LATR7_QsQLYParadise Imagined. Join us from September 24–26, 2026 for a summit, hosted by Symbolic World in St Giles’, Oxford, United Kingdom at Pusey House. Only 150 tickets will be sold. Don't miss out. https://symbolicworldsummit.com/http://www.thesymbolicworld.com🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe
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463 - Universal History: What Was Noah's Ark Really?
In this episode (Part 3 on our series that will soon become about Persia), we continue reading The Cave of Treasures with Deacon Seraphim, looking at Noah, the world before the flood, the strange traditions around the Ark, and how Adam, Paradise, priesthood, and Melchizedek are all carried through the waters into the new world.Watch this episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/IMd160ye1OMRegister now and get 15% off the Universal History Masterclass! https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/universal-history-masterclassPart 1: https://youtu.be/f--wBUEAxjY?si=thM3QIB4jcwnqpzuPart 2: https://youtu.be/3D2bRWrbKUU?si=odQ6p9ehqS912PEb🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
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462 - Gregg Hurwitz - The Antihero Meets Christianity
In this conversation I speak with Gregg Hurwitz about his new Orphan X novel, Antihero, and the surprising role Orthodox Christianity plays in the story. We discuss the assassin who is forced to face mercy, the limits of violence, the exhaustion of modern storytelling, and why we may need a new kind of hero, one who can hold together justice, sacrifice, and humanity.YouTube version: https://youtu.be/lPpZnZWdPGkGregg Hurwitz books on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B001IXPXTGLatest Novella, The Delivery: https://www.amazon.com/Delivery-Novella-Gregg-Hurwitz-ebook/dp/B0FX5Y9FQGAntihero: https://www.amazon.com/Antihero-Orphan-Novel-11/dp/1250479916📢 Join Seraphim Hamilton in studying the Book of Isaiah. Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-fifth-gospel🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
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461 - Rachel Wilson - Feminism Is the Political Arm of Witchcraft
In this conversation with Rachel Wilson, we discuss the strange inversion at the heart of modern feminism, its occult and anti-Christian roots, and the way it has turned women against motherhood, marriage, the family, and even the feminine itself.We also look at abortion, witchcraft, gender, the destruction of womanhood, and the vision of marriage as a path of sacrifice, love, and mutual self-giving.YouTube version: https://youtu.be/DKliIG90YDwFollow Rachel Wilson’s work:X: https://x.com/Rach4Patriarchy Substack: https://rwilson.substack.com/ Get her book, Occult Feminism: The Secret History of Women’s Liberation: https://www.amazon.com/Occult-Feminism-Secret-History-Liberation/dp/B09NGXZKHBYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@rachel.wilson📢 Join Seraphim Hamilton in studying the Book of Isaiah. Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-fifth-gospel 🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau 🎧 Listen to and review The Symbolic World podcast:-Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5-Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488 Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
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460 - Dn. Seraphim Rohlin - Universal History: The Origin of the Nephilim
In this conversation with Deacon Seraphim Rohlin, we continue our exploration of Genesis through the Syrian tradition, looking especially at Seth (Adam and Eve’s son after Cain and Abel), the Nephilim, and the fall of the sons of God. What begins as a discussion of the descendants of Seth becomes a way of understanding the descent from the holy mountain, the corruption of Cain’s line, and the strange traditions around giants, demons, music, desire, and the second fall before the flood.YouTube version of this episode: https://youtu.be/3D2bRWrbKUUEpisode 1 of this series: https://youtu.be/f--wBUEAxjY?si=cJE6aczhbDx13AoIFr. Stephen De Young talking about Nephilim with Tucker Carlson: https://youtu.be/5x9vR5sKHFI?si=nBh9exyV3jkGYtWs📕 Buy Little Red Riding Hood now during the month of June and get the audiobook with for free: https://store.thesymbolicworld.com/📢 Join Seraphim Hamilton in studying the Book of Isaiah this June. Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-fifth-gospel Books (outside of the Bible) mentioned:The Cave of TreasuresThe Book of the BeeBook of EnochBook of AdamKebra NagastJubilees🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
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459 - The Future Belongs to Humans (Ottawa talk)
This is a talk I presented at Chesterton Academy of Ottawa earlier this year. YouTube version: https://youtu.be/ETaRAauDxS0Buy Little Red Riding Hood now during the month of June and get the audiobook with for free: https://store.thesymbolicworld.com/Join Seraphim Hamilton in studying the Book of Isaiah this June. Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-fifth-gospel Timestamps:00:00 - Coming up00:51 - Intro music01:05 - Chesterton Academy introduction03:28 - Jonathan begins: art, AI, education, and the Pope’s encyclical05:53 - Why AI is not human intelligence08:18 - AI lacks embodied understanding10:47 - Money, efficiency, power, and the values behind AI13:07 - The Moloch trap and the AI arms race15:32 - AI’s impact on work and education17:01 - The anti-human vision of technocracy18:40 - What education is really for21:05 - Why learn art in the age of AI?23:50 - Little Red Riding Hood promotion24:46 - Remember, celebrate, and create25:57 - Remembering our stories and traditions29:36 - Celebrate what is good33:16 - Create in service of remembrance and celebration37:11 - Sincerity after irony and cynicism39:32 - Fairy tales, icons, and Christian visual language42:58 - Graphic novels, saints, and medieval storytelling44:28 - The challenge and opportunity of our time46:27 - Q: Is pessimism about AI justified?48:32 - Q: How can remembrance, celebration, and creation be transmitted practically in schools and families?53:23 - Q: Should schools return to oral exams and oral presentations because of AI?55:52 - Q: How much can we participate in or use AI without falling into the trap?58:31 - Q: What does cave art reveal about the relationship between man and art? Is art the signature of man?01:03:02 - Q: What is the difference between inventing something new and creating?01:07:20 - Q: Do strict rules in art stifle creativity? Why do people say beauty is subjective?01:10:04 - Q: How can we recover a true remembrance of the Middle Ages rather than seeing them as dark or backward?01:14:55 - Q: What is the difference between reading traditional stories and watching movies for entertainment?01:19:02 - Q: Why was beauty dismissed from art, and why is our built environment so ugly?01:21:07 - Q: What is your favorite piece of art in your home?01:23:28 - Q: Can AI be used as a Socratic interlocutor in education?01:26:36 - Q: What is the value of teaching classical languages like Latin and ancient Greek?01:27:45 - Q: How should young artists balance pursuing art with the need to make money?01:30:50 - Q: What is the importance of boredom, rest, silence, and imagination?01:33:15 - Q: Is re-enchantment, post-irony, and sincerity possible in an intentional way?01:37:08 - Q: How can different traditions unite against AI without losing their distinctiveness?01:41:39 - Q: How do we discern beauty in imperfect work, especially in a performative society focused on excellence?01:44:02 - Q: Where do you think AI is going, especially in education and culture?🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau 🎧 Listen to and review The Symbolic World podcast:-Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5-Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488 Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
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458 - What's at stake with The Odyssey (2026) by Christopher Nolan
There’s a lot of expectation and noise around Christopher Nolan’s upcoming movie, The Odyssey (2026). For decades after WW2 we were unable to tell many stories about kingship and fatherhood. As we move through the turbulent end of the WW2 consensus, stories like this form part of how we process the return of the father and identity.YouTube version: https://youtu.be/6prGX3wZKI8Buy Little Red Riding Hood now during the month of June and get the audiobook with for free. More than our other fairy tales, this one emphasizes the importance of the father’s role in protecting his family from the strange and subversive. https://store.thesymbolicworld.com/Join Seraphim Hamilton in studying the Book of Isaiah this June. Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-fifth-gospel🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau🎧 Listen to and review The Symbolic World podcast:-Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5-Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
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457 - Backrooms (2026): A Strange Return to Normal
Backrooms (2026) is a recent horror/thriller film based on a creepypasta —an internet urban legend— that emerged around the time of the Covid lockdowns. A man discovers an infinite, labyrinthine expanse of "backrooms" that becomes increasingly disturbing.In this video, I analyze the symbolism of the film and explore the deeper reasons why it is so popular, outshining major blockbusters with much larger budgets and marketing campaigns. Enjoy.YouTube version: https://youtu.be/ZK6NaFsBGaMBuy Little Red Riding Hood now during the month of June and get the audiobook with for free: https://store.thesymbolicworld.com/Join Seraphim Hamilton in studying the Book of Isaiah this June. Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-fifth-gospel🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau🎧 Listen to and review The Symbolic World podcast:-Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5-Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
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436
456 - Gavin Ortlund - Who Can Be Saved?
I had a discussion with Gavin Ortlund about the Orthodox Church's position on salvation outside the church.YouTube version: https://youtu.be/RtC8ENpbOW4Buy Little Red Riding Hood now during the month of June and get the audiobook with for free: https://store.thesymbolicworld.com/Join Seraphim Hamilton in studying the Book of Isaiah this June. Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-fifth-gospel Timestamps00:00 Introduction and background to the discussion03:08 Steelmanning each other’s positions04:12 Gavin summarizes the Orthodox view of salvation05:37 Jonathan explains salvation as healing and theosis06:36 Normative and non-normative ways of salvation08:13 Jonathan summarizes Gavin’s historical argument10:53 Gavin clarifies his thesis about Orthodoxy, Catholics, and Protestants16:40 Is the modern Orthodox view a return to earlier tradition?18:32 Gavin explains why the 9th–19th century period matters20:20 Disagreement over whether individuals can be declared damned22:57 Jonathan responds on Orthodox theological boundaries24:54 Debate over the 9th century and the Photian schism31:32 The question: Is Gavin a Christian brother?38:37 The Synod of Jerusalem and Protestant theology41:36 Jonathan reads from the Synod of Jerusalem43:56 Gavin responds to Jonathan’s use of an old blog post46:42 Gavin outlines the Synod’s language about Protestants49:12 Jonathan argues synods define norms, not individual destinies52:28 Gavin challenges the “normative” reading of the Synod55:20 Normative texts, dogmatic authority, and qualifications58:13 Theophan the Recluse and hope for the non-Orthodox01:04:16 St. Philaret of Moscow and leaving souls to God’s mercy01:09:35 Protestant missions in Orthodox lands01:11:23 Gavin defends Protestant missionary theology01:13:30 Jonathan critiques Protestant evangelism and denominationalism01:16:21 The Eucharist, communion, and institutional exclusivism01:18:16 Gavin explains why he is not Orthodox01:20:44 Jonathan on Christ’s presence and God’s desire to save all01:21:59 Are Protestants categorized like Buddhists or Muslims?01:25:36 Salvation as transformation into the image of Christ01:28:55 Theophan’s advice: focus on your own salvation01:30:06 Personal holiness and evangelism01:32:18 Calvinism, evangelism, and divine decree01:36:52 Predestination, foreknowledge, and the River of Fire01:39:59 Closing the theological discussion01:40:33 Gavin’s apology and reflections on online discourse01:42:59 A call for patient Protestant-Orthodox dialogue01:44:12 Jonathan’s closing thanks🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau 🎧 Listen to and review The Symbolic World podcast:-Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5-Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488 Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
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435
455 - Disclosure Day: The Last Boomer Propaganda Movie
I went to see Spielberg’s Disclosure Day and found myself watching a strange, late-stage piece of boomer propaganda about aliens, media, religion, and who we are supposed to trust. Here are my thoughts on the symbolism of the film.Watch on YouTube: https://youtu.be/SBGPLaGfVTcBuy Little Red Riding Hood now during the month of June and get the audiobook with for free: https://store.thesymbolicworld.com/Join Seraphim Hamilton in studying the Book of Isaiah this June. Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-fifth-gospel 🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau 🎧 Listen to and review The Symbolic World podcast:-Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5-Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488 Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
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434
454 - The Enemy Who Pretends to Be Your Friend
We often think of enemies as those who attack us openly, but fairy tales also warn us about another kind of enemy: the one who comes close, pretends to be our friend, and destroys from within. I also discuss how this pattern appears in Scripture, culture, identity, and even technology, and why discernment is so important in our current moment.Buy Little Red Riding Hood now during the month of June and get the audiobook with for free: https://store.thesymbolicworld.com/ YouTube version: https://youtu.be/U8VXqPX1-0QJoin Seraphim Hamilton in studying the Book of Isaiah this June. Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-fifth-gospel 🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau 🎧 Listen to and review The Symbolic World podcast:-Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5-Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488 Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
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433
453 - Seraphim Hamilton - Isaiah: The Fifth Gospel
I’m joined again by Seraphim Hamilton to discuss his upcoming Symbolic World course on Isaiah, beginning June 15th. We talk about why Isaiah is central for understanding Christ in the Old Testament, the relationship between prophecy, exile, the suffering servant, the gentile nations, and the deep symbolic unity between Scripture, liturgy, and creation.Join Seraphim Hamilton in studying the Book of Isaiah this June. Register now to get 15% off before the early bird sale ends: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-fifth-gospel YouTube version: https://youtu.be/lPpBFh2-V90Timestamps:00:00 - Coming up00:47 - Intro music01:01 - Introducing Seraphim Hamilton and the Isaiah course01:48 - Seminary, liturgy, and returning to Scripture02:39 - Why Isaiah?03:02 - Isaiah as a Christological book05:27 - High Christology in the Old Testament06:52 - Leviathan, Revelation, and the Angel of the Lord07:51 - Isaiah 27 and the serpent of Genesis08:22 - Sennacherib, Hezekiah, and the Angel of the Lord10:51 - Are Old Testament prophecies taken out of context?11:18 - Exile, Assyria, Babylon, and biblical prophecy14:57 - Course promo: The Fifth Gospel15:47 - Isaiah 14 and the fall of Satan16:44 - The king of Babylon and the Daystar19:06 - Isaiah 14, Isaiah 53, and the suffering servant22:46 - Venus, Lucifer, and Christ as opposite images24:22 - Angels, humanity, and the transfer of authority25:57 - Is the suffering servant Israel or the Messiah?26:23 - The Messiah as the son of David28:50 - The servant, the seed, and the restoration of Israel32:13 - How the nations participate in the promise32:41 - The Old Testament and the redemption of the nations34:54 - The mountain of the Lord and divine fire37:34 - The heavenly Jerusalem and Isaiah 6038:02 - Isaiah 59, incarnation, and the redemption of Israel40:19 - The nations coming to honor the Jewish Messiah43:14 - What the Isaiah class hopes to offer43:56 - Seeing Christ disclosed in the Old Testament46:36 - Symbolism, the Fathers, and the tight weave of Scripture47:44 - Course details: five classes on Isaiah48:49 - Closing and where to sign up🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau 🎧 Listen to and review The Symbolic World podcast:-Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5-Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488 Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
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432
452 - Hillsdale talk - Mythological Thinking: The Crossroads of Psychology and Theology
This is a talk I did at Hillsdale College in March 2026. In this talk, I explore mythological thinking as a way of understanding how facts become meaningful. Facts do not present themselves to us neutrally. They are always organized by care, relevance, attention, and story. I look at examples from Genesis, Icarus, Spider-Man, the Tower of Babel, and modern science to show how myths preserve deep patterns of human experience. Rather than treating myth as fiction or primitive explanation, I argue that myth reveals the structures by which we perceive reality, understand purpose, and connect psychology with theology.YouTube version: https://youtu.be/DEShUddn8HYJoin Seraphim Hamilton in studying the Book of Isaiah this June. Register now to get 15% off before the early bird sale ends: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-fifth-gospel🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau 🎧 Listen to and review The Symbolic World podcast:-Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5-Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488 Timestamps:00:00 Coming up01:38 Intro music02:03 Introduction at Hillsdale College06:59 Talk begins: hope, fragmentation, and new conversations09:19 “Facts don’t care about your feelings”12:12 Care organizes facts16:50 Facts are always contained in a story19:15 The Fifth Gospel course announcement20:10 Why stories survive across generations24:04 Mythological stories vs. scientific descriptions27:14 Origin stories and why we care30:37 Genesis as more than a scientific text33:34 Genesis, relevance, and human categories37:38 Why the mythological story should be primary39:36 Myths are not primitive explanations41:47 Babel, Icarus, Prometheus, and repeated patterns44:16 Applicability vs. allegory47:40 All remembered stories are mythological49:24 Psychology, theology, and human care51:27 The Incarnation as the myth that came true54:34 How story unites psychology and theology58:29 Returning to mythological thinking59:55 Q&A: Bringing mythological thinking into science education01:02:58 Q&A: How to recognize false myths01:07:37 Q&A: Speaking truth in hostile circles01:08:53 Q&A: Original sin as a true myth01:11:13 Q&A: How artists discover truth through story01:13:42 Q&A: Why live by Christ’s story rather than another?01:18:21 Q&A: The modern fall into cold, hard realityOur website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
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431
451 - Universal History: What Really Happened in Eden - Dcn. Seraphim Rohlin
A telling of the events in Genesis that you might never have heard before.In this episode of Universal History, Deacon Seraphim Rohlin and I return to Genesis through the Syriac tradition, especially the Cave of Treasures. This is the groundwork for understanding the universal history of Persia.Join Seraphim Hamilton in studying the Book of Isaiah this June. Register now to get 15% off before the early bird sale ends: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-fifth-gospelYouTube version: https://youtu.be/f--wBUEAxjYUniversal History playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLVX4HUUPrIY_M2uZP3yW6EEiod3fGD6FDTimestamps:00:00 - Coming up00:38 - Intro music01:03 - Why return to Genesis before Persia05:54 - Syriac sources and the Cave of Treasures08:21 - Tradition, Scripture, and how ancient stories are received12:55 - Melchizedek, Moriah, and hidden biblical patterns17:41 - The first day: creation, waters, and the leaven of life24:37 - The second day: the firmament and the waters above28:45 - The third day: earth, seeds, and creation’s hidden potential34:22 - Sterility, power, and modern artificial systems38:21 - The fourth day: sun, moon, stars, heat, and life43:45 - The sixth day: the formation of Adam45:23 - Adam’s glory and the angels’ fear52:17 - Satan refuses to venerate Adam56:56 - The chariot of fire and ascent into paradise59:19 - Eve, Adam’s side, and ancient wedding symbolism01:02:09 - Paradise as the Church01:06:47 - Jerusalem, the cross, and universal history01:10:55 - The fall, the serpent, and the mirror of temptation01:17:42 - Garments of skin and the body after the fall01:22:13 - Adam and Eve expelled from paradise01:27:00 - The Cave of Treasures and the first temple01:29:21 - Cain, Abel, and the first sacrifice01:31:42 - Cain’s jealousy and the first murder01:35:40 - Abel as the first martyr and first relic01:37:50 - Genesis as the pattern of the whole world🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau 🎧 Listen to and review The Symbolic World podcast:-Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5-Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488 Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
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430
450 - An Exploration of Modern Dysfunction: What Pluribus is Actually About
In this video, I look at the symbolism of the recent TV show, Pluribus. There's a lot of speculation about whether it's an allegory for AI, the internet, totalitarianism, or resisting tyranny. But I would argue that it's not allegorical at all, rather it's an exploration of a deeper ontological problem: the relationship of the one and the many, the inside and the outside, sameness and difference.Watch on YouTube: https://youtu.be/JIk5jpmf5D0🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau 🎧 Listen to and review The Symbolic World podcast:-Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5-Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488 Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
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429
449 - Decapitation Symbolism: The Glory of Losing Your Head
In this video, I explore the symbolism of decapitation in the Bible and Christian tradition. Beginning with Joseph’s interpretation of the baker and cupbearer in Genesis, we trace a pattern of “lifting up the head” through Scripture, martyrdom, the Eucharist, and ultimately the crucifixion and ascension of Christ. Along the way, we encounter Saint John the Baptist, the mystery of sacrifice, and the astonishing story of Saint Denis of Paris, who carried his own head while preaching after his martyrdom.YouTube version: https://youtu.be/uwRsUj30URkJoin us at the Symbolic World Summit | May 14-16 | Ohio | Keynote speakers: Jonathan Pageau, Fr. Josiah Trenham, Mary Harrington, Dcn. Seraphim Rohlin, Kale Zelden, Annie Crawford, and Heather PollingtonBuy your tickets: https://symbolicworldsummit.com/ Virtual tickets are now also for sale, and Involved+ patrons can get 10% off: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/virtual-summit-2026🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
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428
448 - Fr. Josiah Trenham - How to Integrate Faith, Family, and Nation
I sat down with Fr. Josiah Trenham to talk about something that’s becoming harder to ignore: how to properly order your loyalties.We discussed the tension between faith, nation, family, and personal identity, and what happens when those come into conflict. Join us at the Symbolic World Summit, where Fr. Josiah will be one of the keynote speakers. May 14-16 | Ohio | Keynote speakers: Jonathan Pageau, Fr. Josiah Trenham, Mary Harrington, Dcn. Seraphim Rohlin, Kale Zelden, Annie Crawford, and Heather PollingtonBuy your tickets: https://symbolicworldsummit.com/ YouTube version of this episode: https://youtu.be/Ugt7XnbH0tQ🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau 🎧 Listen to and review The Symbolic World podcast:-Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5-Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488 Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
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427
445 - Understanding the Icons of Holy Week
This is a repost of a past video where I discussed the icons of Holy Week in the Orthodox Church and how they relate to each other as a unified symbolic pattern. Have a blessed Pascha.YouTube version: https://youtu.be/h55O4Kxs6tUJoin us at the Symbolic World Summit | May 14-16 | Ohio | Keynote speakers: Jonathan Pageau, Fr. Josiah Trenham, Mary Harrington, Dcn. Seraphim Rohlin, Kale Zelden, Annie Crawford, and Heather PollingtonBuy your tickets: https://symbolicworldsummit.com/ Timestamps:00:00 - Start / Introduction00:48 - Palm Sunday (Entry into Jerusalem)05:34 - Holy Monday (Bridegroom / Crown of Thorns)07:54 - Holy Tuesday (Wise & Foolish Virgins)10:15 - Holy Wednesday (Washing of the Feet)12:37 - Holy Thursday (Mystical Supper)14:36 - Holy Friday (Crucifixion)19:27 - Holy Saturday (Descent into Hades / Anastasis)21:47 - Resurrection & Empty Tomb24:09 - Burial & Laying in the Tomb26:20 - Conclusion / Meaning of Holy Week=====NEW COURSE: Plutarch: Symbolism in History with Pavel ShchelinThe problem with history is that you are in it. Plutarch teaches us to read power symbolically—asking "whom does the hero serve?" to predict leadership patterns before they play out.Presenter: Pavel ShchelinDuration: 8 weeks studying the lives of Greeks and Roman Lycurgus, Alcibiades, Lysander, Pompey, Caesar, and Octavian –as living patterns, not dead men.Live classes are on Wednesdays at 4-6pm Eastern Time, starting March 18th through May 6th, 2026.Price: $180 USD - Involved patrons can get a 10% discount. Apply your code at checkout. Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/plutarch-symbolism-in-history =====🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau 🎧 Listen to and review The Symbolic World podcast:-Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5-Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488 Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
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426
444 - "FATHER": A symbolic analysis of Kanye West’s song and music video
With the release of Ye’s new album, Bully, many have asked about the music video for the song called “Father.” While the video is surreal and AI generated, it is not without meaning or structure. If you pay attention to broader, context, patterns, and the relationships between images, a coherent meaning begins to emerge.YouTube version: https://youtu.be/BG2psRcPH7oMy review of Ye's album Bully: https://x.com/PageauJonathan/status/2038374009382097289Ye: Father music video: https://youtu.be/HBMy-y2wb4I?si=OKlf4_0c8y1zJwV1SUMMIT 2026: Join us for the Symbolic World Summit 2026! Speakers include Fr. Josiah Trenham, Mary Harrington, Jonathan Pageau, Dn. Seraphim Rohlin, and others.Date: May 14-16Place: Broadview Heights, OHDon't miss out! https://symbolicworldsummit.com/=====NEW COURSE: Plutarch: Symbolism in History with Pavel ShchelinThe problem with history is that you are in it. Plutarch teaches us to read power symbolically—asking "whom does the hero serve?" to predict leadership patterns before they play out.Presenter: Pavel ShchelinDuration: 8 weeks studying the lives of Greeks and Roman Lycurgus, Alcibiades, Lysander, Pompey, Caesar, and Octavian –as living patterns, not dead men.Live classes are on Wednesdays at 4-6pm Eastern Time, starting March 18th through May 6th, 2026.Price: $180 USD - Involved patrons can get a 10% discount. Apply your code at checkout. Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/plutarch-symbolism-in-history =====🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
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425
443 - Kale Zelden - There’s Still Time to Read the Great Books
Kale Zelden is a literature teacher and writer and in this video he joins me to discuss reading, the "Great books", and what it means to recover the reading tradition in a modern context. We talk about how to encounter old texts, what reading can contribute to our lives, and how to approach authors like Homer, Dante, and Shakespeare without reducing them to modern assumptions. We also explore the limits of the novel, modernism, postmodernism, irony, and the essential rediscovery of the epic.YouTube version: https://youtu.be/9zps7RIov44Kale’s Substack, The Underneath: https://kalezelden.substack.com/Join us at the Symbolic World Summit | May 14-16 | Ohio | Keynote speakers: Jonathan Pageau, Fr. Josiah Trenham, Mary Harrington, Dcn. Seraphim Rohlin, Kale Zelden, Annie Crawford, and Heather PollingtonBuy your tickets: https://symbolicworldsummit.com/ Learn more about Pavel Shchelin's phenomenal course on Plutarch, Live now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/plutarch-symbolism-in-historyTIMESTAMPS00:00 - Coming up01:07 - Intro music01:32 - Introduction02:09 - The state of education07:30 - First of all10:47 - The power of analogy13:11 - Select your curriculum21:05 - What is canon?33:24 - What are we moving towards39:20 - Allegory43:47 - What is modernism?47:50 - Great books program53:24 - What is the epic?BOOKS MENTIONED IN THIS DISCUSSION:00:04:45 Augustine — Confessions — Spiritual autobiography, early Christian thought Plato — Dialogues — Philosophy of truth, justice, knowledge Aristotle — (various works) — Ethics, logic, metaphysics Church Fathers — (various writings) — Foundations of Christian theology00:06:20 Anne Rice — (novels) — Modern popular fiction Shakespeare — (general works) — Foundational drama Beowulf — Anonymous — Old English epic poem00:06:49 Plato — Dialogues — Rediscovered philosophical texts00:07:32 Shakespeare — Hamlet — Tragedy of revenge and doubt Dante — Divine Comedy — Vision of Hell, Purgatory, Heaven Chaucer — Canterbury Tales — Medieval storytelling Mary Shelley — Frankenstein — Creation and responsibility Milton — Paradise Lost — Epic of the Fall00:13:55 Kerouac — On the Road — Modern freedom and experience Camus — (e.g. The Stranger) — Existential philosophy00:14:31 Homer — Iliad, Odyssey — Foundational epics Plato — Apology, Republic — Justice and philosophy Shakespeare —Romeo and Juliet — Tragic loveJulius Caesar — Politics and betrayalMacbeth — Ambition and guiltA Midsummer Night’s Dream — Comedy and illusionKing Lear — Suffering and authorityHamlet — Existential tragedyThe Tempest — Reconciliation00:16:21 Dostoevsky — Crime and Punishment — Guilt and redemption Dostoevsky — The Brothers Karamazov — Faith and morality00:21:31 Voyage of St. Brendan — Medieval Christian voyage Apocalypse of Pseudo-Methodius — Apocalyptic text The Golden Legend — Jacobus de Voragine — Saints’ lives00:21:58 Cervantes — Don Quixote — Satire of chivalry, early novel00:22:51 Jane Austen — Pride and Prejudice — Social psychology00:23:59 Milton — Paradise Lost — (revisited, epic psychology)00:26:11 Faulkner — (novels) — Fragmented modern storytelling00:33:41 C.S. Lewis — On Stories — Defense of story over psychology C.S. Lewis — Abolition of Man — Critique of modern values C.S. Lewis — Miracles — Defense of the supernatural00:37:05 Sondheim — Into the Woods — Modern fairy tale deconstruction00:38:55 Rabelais — Gargantua and Pantagruel — Satirical, playful text00:44:06 Melville — Moby-Dick — Epic-scale novel Hemingway — The Sun Also Rises — Modern disillusionment00:49:42 Ovid — Metamorphoses — Mythic transformations00:46:13 (thinkers mentioned) Lyotard — Postmodern philosophy Derrida — Deconstruction Heidegger — Phenomenology00:53:14 Virgil — Aeneid — Roman epic Bible — (Moses narrative) — Epic of calling and suffering🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau 🎧 Listen to and review The Symbolic World podcast:-Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5-Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488 Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
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424
442 - "Historical Accuracy" Can Miss the Point
We often assume that being “historically accurate” means getting closer to the truth, but that’s not always the case. In this video, I explore how modern, mechanical thinking can actually invert meaning, using the example of Christ’s crucifixion. What matters most is not just the mechanical details of how something could have happened, but what it means and its actual implications.Watch this episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/HXsbK_k8vn4SUMMIT 2026: Join us for the Symbolic World Summit 2026! Speakers include Fr. Josiah Trenham, Mary Harrington, Jonathan Pageau, Dn. Seraphim Rohlin, and others.Date: May 14-16Place: Broadview Heights, OHDon't miss out! Hope to see you there: https://symbolicworldsummit.com/=====NEW COURSE: Plutarch: Symbolism in History with Pavel ShchelinThe problem with history is that you are in it. Plutarch teaches us to read power symbolically—asking "whom does the hero serve?" to predict leadership patterns before they play out.Presenter: Pavel ShchelinDuration: 8 weeks studying the lives of Greeks and Roman Lycurgus, Alcibiades, Lysander, Pompey, Caesar, and Octavian –as living patterns, not dead men.Live classes are on Wednesdays at 4-6pm Eastern Time, starting March 18th through May 6th, 2026.Price: $180 USD - Involved patrons can get a 10% discount. Apply your code at checkout. Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/plutarch-symbolism-in-history=====🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
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423
441 - Mary Harrington - Technology, AI, and Cultural Memory
In this conversation, I sat down with Mary Harrington about technology and the online world.Mary reflects on her path as a writer, the evolution of online culture, and the growing difficulty of discerning truth in the digital environment. We also touch on memory, embodiment, cancel culture, and politics. YouTube version: https://youtu.be/eeBZuA0S1ZEMary will be speaking at the Symbolic World Summit. The theme of the conference is Retelling the Cosmic Epic, and Mary’s talk will be titled: 'Rebuild the Monasteries'Description:In an age of AI "slop" and flattened culture, how do we understand, and cultivate, what makes us distinctly human? Mary Harrington will argue that there is no need to reinvent the wheel. Premodern practices of memory and prayer, once cultivated in Europe's monasteries, can refresh our imaginations and salvage our human cultures in the digital age.Come join us at Woodside Event Center | Broadview Heights, Ohio | May 14-16, 2026Early Bird Pricing – Ends March 26th: Save $50 on both General Admission and VIP ticketsBuy tickets now: https://symbolicworldsummit.com/ =====NEW COURSE: Plutarch: Symbolism in History with Pavel ShchelinThe problem with history is that you are in it. Plutarch teaches us to read power symbolically—asking "whom does the hero serve?" to predict leadership patterns before they play out.Presenter: Pavel ShchelinDuration: 8 weeks studying the lives of Greeks and Roman Lycurgus, Alcibiades, Lysander, Pompey, Caesar, and Octavian –as living patterns, not dead men.Live classes are on Wednesdays at 4-6pm Eastern Time, starting March 18th through May 6th, 2026.Price: $180 USD - Involved patrons can get a 10% discount. Apply your code at checkout. Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/plutarch-symbolism-in-history =====Jonathan and Mary's discussion on Socrates in the City: https://youtu.be/nrsjZKPH4WA?si=kaM5zE2Qj-4XCD1KTimestamps:00:00 - Coming up01:07 - Intro music01:32 - Introduction02:14 - Mary's journey09:00 - The meaning of meaning10:46 - The singularity already happened12:53 - Being connected17:28 - The printing press industrial template20:52 - AI22:21 - Using AI25:47 - Internet platforms and politics32:10 - Being anonymous35:37 - Politics37:44 - The end of the printing press39:47 - The end of the industrial era42:46 - Cancel culture46:56 - Treasure houses🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe 💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com 🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
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422
440 - Dr. Zachary Porcu - Journey to Reality: De-Secularize Your Life
In this conversation I speak with Dr. Zachary Porcu about his book, Journey to Reality: Sacramental Life in a Secular Age, and the challenge of explaining true Christian thinking to modern people. We discuss how modern assumptions about the world make it difficult to understand ideas like sacraments, participation, and the relationship between the spiritual and material. Dr. Porcu explains why he wrote the book and how reframing basic categories—what we mean by God, religion, and reality—is often necessary before theology can make sense.YouTube version: https://youtu.be/Qd9xENDzfRo Please review the Symbolic World podcast on Spotify or Apple podcasts. Dr. Zac’s website and book: https://zacharyporcu.com/The Roots of Everything podcast (YouTube): https://www.youtube.com/@TheRootsofEverythingSubstack: https://zacharyporcu.substack.com/ =====NEW COURSE: Plutarch: Symbolism in History with Pavel ShchelinThe problem with history is that you are in it. Plutarch teaches us to read power symbolically—asking "whom does the hero serve?" to predict leadership patterns before they play out.Presenter: Pavel ShchelinDuration: 8 weeks studying the lives of Greeks and Roman Lycurgus, Alcibiades, Lysander, Pompey, Caesar, and Octavian –as living patterns, not dead men.Live classes are on Wednesdays at 4-6pm Eastern Time, starting March 18th through May 6th, 2026.Price: $180 USD, get the early bird discount of 15% off if you register by March 18th. Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/plutarch-symbolism-in-history =====SUMMIT 2026: Join us for the Symbolic World Summit 2026! Speakers include Fr. Josiah Trenham, Mary Harrington, Jonathan Pageau, Dn. Seraphim Rohlin, and others.Date: May 14-16Place: Broadview Heights, OHBuy your tickets now and get $50 off with the early bird sale through March 26th. Don't miss out! Hope to see you there: https://symbolicworldsummit.com/Timestamps:00:00 - Coming up01:03 - Intro music01:29 - Introduction03:54 - Jargon05:46 - Matter and spirituality08:49 - Re-enchantment13:10 - What you see22:09 - The moral and physical laws31:01 - Occult converts36:39 - Supernatural experiences40:54 - What do we do?46:46 - Meditation49:47 - On American religion52:16 - The rational and the esoteric🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau 🎧 Listen to and review The Symbolic World podcast:-Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5-Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488 Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
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421
439 - Pavel Shchelin - Plutarch: Symbolism of History with Dcn. Seraphim Rohlin
This is a conversation between Deacon Seraphim Rohlin and Pavel Shchelin on political theology, power, and Plutarch’s Lives. They explore how ancient biographies reveal enduring patterns of ambition, authority, and the human passions that shape political history—from Rome to the modern world. Topics include Cicero, rhetoric and power, the fall of the Roman Republic, and why the stories of ancient statesmen still help us understand today’s political landscape.YouTube version: https://youtu.be/Wo2IkgDT0q4Please review this podcast on Spotify or Apple podcasts, it helps us a lot. Links:-Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5 -Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488 NEW COURSE: Plutarch: Symbolism in History with Pavel ShchelinThe problem with history is that you are in it. Plutarch teaches us to read power symbolically—asking "whom does the hero serve?" to predict leadership patterns before they play out.Presenter: Pavel ShchelinDuration: 8 weeks studying the lives of Greeks and Roman Lycurgus, Alcibiades, Lysander, Pompey, Caesar, and Octavian –as living patterns, not dead men.Live classes are on Wednesdays at 4-6pm Eastern Time, starting March 18th through May 6th, 2026.Price: $180 USD, get the early bird discount of 15% off if you register by March 18th. Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/plutarch-symbolism-in-history SUMMIT 2026: Join us for the Symbolic World Summit 2026! Speakers include Fr. Josiah Trenham, Mary Harrington, Jonathan Pageau, Dn. Seraphim Rohlin, and others.Date: May 14-16Place: Broadview Heights, OHBuy your tickets now and get $50 off with the early bird sale through March 12th. Don't miss out! Hope to see you there: https://symbolicworldsummit.com/Timestamps:00:00 - Coming up01:32 - Intro music01:58 - Introduction03:47 - The separation of religion and politics07:44 - Current politics09:20 - How they met10:46 - Why Plutarch?18:46 - If you were pointing a video camera20:20 - Great men24:28 - Plutarch's Lives26:57 - Influence28:40 - Cicero49:18 - Digging his own grave56:58 - Word and will01:05:48 - Cicero's lesson for us01:10:58 - Course info01:16:06 - The point of studying history🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau
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420
438 - Universal History: The American Religion: Making Way for Mormonism
Magical beginnings, secular endings. In this episode of Universal History, Deacon Seraphim Rohlin and I start a discussion about early Mormonism (or rather, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) within the broader context of American religious history.We look at the enchanted religious world of early America — folk magic, treasure seeking, restorationism, the Melchizedek priesthood — and how these patterns shaped movements like Mormonism. We also reflect on the recurring American impulse to “restore” a lost spiritual authority, and the impulse to, on the other hand, make all things respectably secular.This is episode 4 of our Universal History series on the American religion. Watch it here on YouTube:Playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLVX4HUUPrIY_U0msyBRVpwCI_srzn3tjLEpisode 1: https://youtu.be/htXHJ1WRSAgEpisode 2: https://youtu.be/o9rMy6lde0cEpisode 3: https://youtu.be/0_RKBPaQAykEpisode 4: https://youtu.be/ZopvdgYe-UA===Join us for the Symbolic World Summit 2026! Speakers include Fr. Josiah Trenham, Mary Harrington, Dn. Seraphim Rohlin, myself, and others.Date: May 14-16Place: Broadview Heights, OHBuy your tickets now and get $50 off with the early bird sale through March 12th. Don't miss out! Hope to see you there: https://symbolicworldsummit.com/===NEW COURSE: The Art of Imitating Heaven: Structure and Meaning in Ancient Cosmology By Joshua SturgillWhat is heaven? Where is it? For ancient people, the answer was obvious: simply look up at the night sky. For them, to see the stars and planets was to see the face of the divine. Christianity, too, understood the visible sky as the realm of unfallen creation. What does this belief mean, and why was it lost?🗓 Live classes are on Sundays at 5-6:30pm Eastern Time, starting February 1st through March 8th, 2026.💰 Price: $150 USD (Involved patrons qualify for a 10% discount)⏰ Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-art-of-imitating-heaven===Timestamps:00:00 - Coming up01:01 - Intro music01:27 - The problem with talking about Mormonism06:10 - Context for why to talk about this13:26 - The Bible and magic20:46 - The distinction in magic25:55 - Enchanted practices35:14 - Baptism for the dead36:20 - Melchizedek priesthood38:54 - Defining feature of American religion41:28 - The charismatic narrative42:43 - Hebrews44:46 - Esoteric Enoch45:52 - Secret garments46:45 - The Whitmer family51:24 - Joseph Smith58:56 - Proscribed but practiced01:02:52 - Many religious experiences01:04:54 - The attitude to magic and miracles01:09:24 - Magical beginning, secular end01:16:40 - Long-lasting🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau 🎧 Listen to and review The Symbolic World podcast:-Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5-Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488 Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
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419
437 - Making Space for the Resurrection of Art (Makers and Mystics)
In this conversation, I sit down with Stephen Roach on the Makers and Mystics podcast to explore why our stories feel exhausted — and what that reveals about our cultural moment. We talk about the end of the post–World War II narrative, the collapse of the hero (and even the anti-hero), and how storytelling has drifted. We also discuss fairy tales, monsters, AI, and the future of art.Let me know what you think in the comments and come join us at the Breath and the Clay conference, a creative arts gathering in Winston Salem, NC March 20-22, 2026: http://www.thebreathandtheclay.com/YouTube version of this episode: https://youtu.be/Xbr6XQlspGQ------------------------Another opportunity to come together and meet is the Symbolic World Summit 2026! Speakers include Fr. Josiah Trenham, Mary Harrington, Dn. Seraphim Rohlin, myself, and others.Date: May 14-16Place: Broadview Heights, OHBuy your tickets now and get $50 off with the early bird sale. Don't miss out: https://symbolicworldsummit.com/Hope to see you there.🎧 Listen to and review The Symbolic World podcast:-Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5-Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488 🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau Timestamps:00:00 - Coming up01:21 - Intro music01:47 - Introduction03:08 - Narrative exhaustion04:38 - End of the WW2 narrative08:40 - Fairy tales11:09 - Jonathan's retelling13:17 - Art and ideology17:41 - Complexity in religious art21:32 - Trust in the audience24:33 - Participation in art28:27 - Distorted retellings32:30 - Resistance of tyranny35:28 - Identity and form37:16 - Limitation and contemporary art41:34 - AI art44:11 - Human connection45:30 - Making spaceOur website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
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418
436 - Reflections on the Void: negativity and difference in the Bible and contemporary thinking
In this episode I try to circle around something that is very difficult to speak about directly — the void.From the opening verses of Genesis, where the earth is described as “empty and void,” we are confronted with a mystery that runs through Scripture, philosophy, and our own experience. What is the “not that” which underlies being? Why has the modern world become so fascinated with negativity, difference, and alterity? And how do we understand the necessary — yet possibly dangerous — role of emptiness in the structure of reality?YouTube version: https://youtu.be/10DS7IxOVro🎧 Listen to and review The Symbolic World podcast:-Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5-Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488 =============NEW COURSE: The Art of Imitating Heaven: Structure and Meaning in Ancient Cosmology By Joshua SturgillWhat is heaven? Where is it? For ancient people, the answer was obvious: simply look up at the night sky. For them, to see the stars and planets was to see the face of the divine. Christianity, too, understood the visible sky as the realm of unfallen creation. What does this belief mean, and why was it lost?🗓 Live classes are on Sundays at 5-6:30pm Eastern Time, starting February 1st through March 8th, 2026.💰 Price: $150 USD (Involved patrons qualify for a 10% discount)⏰ Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-art-of-imitating-heaven===============Mentioned:-Symbolism Explained: The Fundamental WWII Duality That Still Haunts Us Today: https://youtu.be/vLpEDlgEleg?si=w45xD3-uGdx2WOo4-The World War II Consensus is Breaking Down: https://youtu.be/MfXxQW77cQA?si=7TnLlu7uq--Fej3D-GodsDog: https://store.thesymbolicworld.com/collections/godsdog-My recent video on the Parable of the Wedding Feast: https://youtu.be/YRMlQiNkSpE?si=JF3fy7RdFR8FtxO2Timestamps:00:00 - Coming up01:03 - Intro music01:28 - Introduction05:22 - The role of the void06:36 - The separation of heaven and earth09:13 - Not that11:18 - Let the earth produce14:32 - Asking questions16:07 - The ancient perspective20:38 - Earth being earth22:15 - The tree of good and bad29:44 - What is sin?32:37 - Examples of sin33:53 - Judging difference35:01 - Postmodern thinking36:07 - Sadism and masochism40:11 - The Mother of God43:51 - Since WW248:08 - Outro🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
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417
435 - The Song of Creation (Charleston talk)
In this talk at St. Michael’s Church in Charleston, I walk through the seven days of creation as presented in Genesis, exploring creation as a divine song: a rhythm of heaven and earth, light and darkness, above and below. YouTube version: https://youtu.be/p2kb9ggwrp0=============NEW COURSE: The Art of Imitating Heaven: Structure and Meaning in Ancient Cosmology By Joshua SturgillWhat is heaven? Where is it? For ancient people, the answer was obvious: simply look up at the night sky. For them, to see the stars and planets was to see the face of the divine. Christianity, too, understood the visible sky as the realm of unfallen creation. What does this belief mean, and why was it lost?🗓 Live classes are on Sundays at 5-6:30pm Eastern Time, starting February 1st through March 8th, 2026.💰 Price: $150 USD (Involved patrons qualify for a 10% discount)⏰ Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-art-of-imitating-heaven===============Timestamps:00:00 - Coming up00:57 - Intro music01:22 - Introduction05:18 - Day 115:20 - Day 221:53 - Day 333:34 - Day 438:31 - Day 545:51 - Day 6🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive montly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
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416
434 - Immigration and Tolerance: Christians Are Not Called to Be “Nice”
Many are called. Not all are chosen.There is a widespread idea that Christianity is about being “nice,” endlessly tolerant, and endlessly open. But that idea does not survive a careful reading of the Gospel.In this video, I look at the parable of the Wedding Feast and explain why Christ’s invitation to everyone does not mean the acceptance of everything. Using this parable, I explore how compassion can become weaponized, how inclusion without a standard of conformity leads to chaos, and why both churches and nations must have limits if they are to remain what they are. This is not a political argument, but a symbolic and theological one—about how bodies, communities, and kingdoms actually function.YouTube version: https://youtu.be/YRMlQiNkSpE=============NEW COURSE: The Art of Imitating Heaven: Structure and Meaning in Ancient Cosmology By Joshua SturgillWhat is heaven? Where is it? For ancient people, the answer was obvious: simply look up at the night sky. For them, to see the stars and planets was to see the face of the divine. Christianity, too, understood the visible sky as the realm of unfallen creation. What does this belief mean, and why was it lost?🗓 Live classes are on Sundays at 5-6:30pm Eastern Time, starting February 1st through March 8th, 2026.💰 Price: $150 USD (Involved patrons qualify for a 10% discount)⏰ Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-art-of-imitating-heaven===============💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau 🔒 BECOME A PATRON: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
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415
433 - Symbolism Happens! The Mandela Effect Is Not a Glitch in the Matrix
I explore the Mandela Effect from a symbolic perspective. The Mandela Effect is a psychological phenomenon where a large group of people collectively share the same false memory of an event, detail, or pop culture fact. It has stirred up conspiracy theories about parallel timelines and simulation theory. In this video I suggest the possibility that it's a strength, rather than a weakness, of human cognition - a sign of how consciousness forms coherence, how legends accumulate, and how symbols shape the way we see and remember the world.YouTube version: https://youtu.be/B-x5Ze04YEI=============NEW COURSE: The Art of Imitating Heaven: Structure and Meaning in Ancient Cosmology By Joshua SturgillWhat is heaven? Where is it? For ancient people, the answer was obvious: simply look up at the night sky. For them, to see the stars and planets was to see the face of the divine. Christianity, too, understood the visible sky as the realm of unfallen creation. What does this belief mean, and why was it lost?🗓 Live classes are on Sundays at 5-6:30pm Eastern Time, starting February 1st through March 8th, 2026.💰 Price: $150 USD⏰🐥 DON'T MISS OUT! UNTIL FEBRUARY 1ST YOU CAN GET THE EARLY BIRD SPECIAL OF 15% OFF! Discount automatically applied at checkout.Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-art-of-imitating-heaven===============💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau 🔒 BECOME A PATRON: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
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414
432 - Yelena Popovic - Moses the Black
I speak with filmmaker Yelena Popovic, who viewers may recognize as the director of the stunning film of the life of St. Nektarios of Aegina, Man of God (2021). In this interview we discuss her upcoming film, Moses the Black, releasing January 30th of this year. We talk about film making, her inspiration for the film, the people involved, the life story of St. Moses the Black, and repentance in general in the Orthodox faith.YouTube version: https://youtu.be/rzDVfbhaaGUFilm synopsis: Released from prison, a feared Chicago gang leader returns home to avenge the murder of his closest friend. As rival gangs and a corrupt cop close in, he must confront a past that refuses to let go.Release date: 30 January 2026 (USA)Director: Yelena PopovicProducers: Yelena Popovic, Alexandros Potter, Jelena Popović, Brett HaysExecutive producers: Omar Epps, 50 Cent, Wiz Khalifa et al.Production companies: G-Unit Films and Television Inc., Simeon Entertainment, LLC, BrooklynWorks FilmsRunning time: 1h 50mTheatres Showtimes Ticket Link: https://hubs.la/Q03Znnjy0Stay up to date about the film:Trailer: https://youtu.be/iZzpiu8L21Y?si=ZxXRxWuiL_yosuEY Website: https://simeonfaith.com/films/moses-the-black-2024 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mosestheblackmovie Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mosestheblackmovie/ IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt32542065/ Timestamps:00:00 - Coming up01:14 - Intro music01:39 - Start02:32 - Introducing St. Moses the Black08:50 - St. Moses' death13:32 - The movie vs the hagiography31:29 - A harsh redemption35:13 - Sorry is not enough37:36 - See the whole story42:32 - Stories of St. Moses44:24 - Fr. Turbo49:45 - How can we watch this?51:43 - Other projects====================NEW COURSE: The Art of Imitating Heaven: Structure and Meaning in Ancient Cosmology By Joshua SturgillWhat is heaven? Where is it? For ancient people, the answer was obvious: simply look up at the night sky. For them, to see the stars and planets was to see the face of the divine. Christianity, too, understood the visible sky as the realm of unfallen creation. What does this belief mean, and why was it lost?🗓 Live classes are on Sundays at 5-6:30pm Eastern Time, starting February 1st through March 8th, 2026.💰 Price: $150 USD⏰🐥 DON'T MISS OUT! UNTIL FEBRUARY 1ST YOU CAN GET THE EARLY BIRD SPECIAL OF 15% OFF! Discount automatically applied at checkout.Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-art-of-imitating-heaven====================💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau 🔒 BECOME A PATRON: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
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413
431 - Joshua Sturgill & Dcn Seraphim Rohlin - The Art of Imitating Heaven: Structure and Meaning in Ancient Cosmology
"Ancient people knew the sky the way that we know the highways around our cities."Today's podcast is a bit different. Deacon Seraphim Rohlin is here to introduce you to our new Symbolic World Course presenter, Joshua Sturgill. Together they discuss ancient cosmology, symbolism, and the meaning, power, and dangers of observing the night sky. They discuss pagan views on this, Biblical astronomy, the reservations of the church fathers, and modernity's determinism on the one hand, and confusion on the other hand. I hope you enjoy this conversation and will join us for Joshua's course.YouTube version: https://youtu.be/fQY6AyE1n1cNEW COURSE: The Art of Imitating Heaven: Structure and Meaning in Ancient Cosmology By Joshua SturgillWhat is heaven? Where is it? For ancient people, the answer was obvious: simply look up at the night sky. For them, to see the stars and planets was to see the face of the divine. Christianity, too, understood the visible sky as the realm of unfallen creation. What does this belief mean, and why was it lost?🗓 Live classes are on Sundays at 5-6:30pm Eastern Time, starting February 1st through March 8th, 2026.💰 Price: $150 USD⏰🐥 DON'T MISS OUT! UNTIL FEBRUARY 1ST YOU CAN GET THE EARLY BIRD SPECIAL OF 15% OFF! Discount automatically applied at checkout.Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-art-of-imitating-heavenTimestamps:00:00 - Coming up01:00 - Intro music01:24 - Introduction04:15 - Recover cosmology08:32 - Symbolism and cosmology12:43 - The Greeks: Pythagoras and Plato14:39 - Other traditions16:07 - Criticisms against astronomy21:28 - How astrology worked25:24 - A concrete example26:57 - What does spring mean?30:47 - Christmas33:43 - The Orthodox position37:22 - Governed by natural laws45:55 - For the ancients59:30 - Architectural astronomy01:01:43 - Technology and teaching01:05:41 - Course info💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau 🔒 BECOME A PATRON: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
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412
430 - JP Marceau - The Mythology of Demographic Collapse
In this interview, I sat down with Jean-Philippe Marceau—author of Post-Reductionist Christianity, our very first theory book at Symbolic World Press—to discuss his surprising and widely praised new Symbolic World article on the emerging global demographic crisis.We discuss the falling birth rates and all its symbolic, scriptural, political, economic, and technological implications and causes. JP’s article likens today’s demographic collapse to the biblical Flood, looking at the dangers of both progressive dissolution and a reactionary overcorrection, proving the fact that the future belongs to those who build families grounded in meaning and tradition.YouTube version: https://youtu.be/SBrTYadO3kECheck out JP’s article, ‘Is This the Flood? Is Babel Next?’: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/content/is-this-the-flood-is-babel-nextJP's book: https://store.thesymbolicworld.com/products/post-reductionist-christianity-a-way-out-of-the-meaning-crisis===================================COURSE: The Quest for the Holy Grail, with Dr. Martin ShawRegister now and get a FREE ebook of Dr. Martin Shaw's Snowy Tower: Parzival and the Wet Black Branch of Language!In the dark heart of January, when the nights are long and the world draws close, Dr. Martin Shaw returns to the Symbolic World to tell one of the greatest stories of the Medieval imagination: Parzival and the Holy Grail.From Monday through Friday, January 12–16, 2026, one of the world's great living storytellers will unspool the medieval epic that Joseph Campbell called the epicenter of Western myth. He’ll be lighting his fire, puffing a cigar, sipping on a whisky, and letting one of the greatest stories of all time lead us where it must.Clear your evenings. Put another log on the fire. This is the storytelling event of the year.🗓 Live classes will be over 5 consecutive days, January 12th-16th at 12pm-2pm EST💰 Price: $160 USD (Involved patrons qualify for 10% off, apply code at checkout.)All recordings will be made available on the same day.Register today: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-quest-for-the-holy-grail ===================================Timestamps:00:00 - Coming up00:53 - Intro music02:20 - Introduction to Demography and Its Significance05:15 - Genetics and Political Ideologies08:26 - Biblical Parallels: The Flood and Modern Society11:24 - The Consequences of the Sexual Revolution14:34 - Historical Patterns: Rome and Its Decline17:56 - The Watchers20:18 - Population and the WW2 Consensus22:25 - The Impact of Cultural and Religious Practices25:29 - The Challenge of Economic Systems29:49 - The Only Way Out💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau 🔒 BECOME A PATRON: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
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411
429 - Martin Shaw - Longing and Mystery: The Quest for the Holy Grail
In this conversation, I sit down with storyteller and mythologist Martin Shaw to explore the Holy Grail. We talk about desire and longing, failure and mercy, chivalry and the feminine, and why the Grail stories continue to be relevant across centuries.YouTube version: https://youtu.be/3qDkPUsle3MCOURSE: The Quest for the Holy Grail with Dr. Martin ShawIn the dark heart of January, when the nights are long and the world draws close, Dr. Martin Shaw returns to Symbolic World Courses for an intensive week-long journey to tell one of the greatest stories of the Medieval imagination: Parzival and the Holy Grail.Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-quest-for-the-holy-grail Cost: $160 USDDates of live course: January 12-16, 2026Time: 12 PM-2 PM EST, except for Lecture 3 (January 14) which will be at 4PM-6PM ESTLinks:-Pre-order Martin Shaw’s upcoming book, Liturgies of the Wild, to get an exclusive chapter: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/741189/liturgies-of-the-wild-by-martin-shaw/ -Martin’s other books, including Snowy Tower: https://drmartinshaw.com/books/ Events:-February 13-15, 2026, Orthodox Christian Arts Festival (Praise for the Beauty) in Texas, with speakers including Martin Shaw and Deacon Seraphim Richard Rohlin: https://www.orthodoxartsfestivaldfw.com/ -January 27, 2026, London, The Temenos Academy. Seeing the Patterned World: the Cosmos as Layered Microcosms, a talk by Jonathan Pageau with Dr. Martin Shaw in the chair. £10 General Admission. The Art Workers' Guild, 6 Queen Square, London, WC1N 3AT. Doors open at 6.10 pm, lecture begins at 6.30 pm. https://www.temenosacademy.org/events-programme/seeing-the-patterned-world Some other links of things mentioned:-Jonathan and Dcn Seraphim’s recent course on Dante’s Paradiso: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/dantes-paradiso-Jonathan’s analysis of Sir Gawain and the Green Knight: Part 1: https://youtu.be/Rg5RDZ7mMKo and Part 2: https://youtu.be/1ch1T24-W7Q -The Monks and Pirates discussion with Andrew Gould: https://youtu.be/WjMadP6DScM -Universal History: The American Religion episode: https://youtu.be/0_RKBPaQAyk Timestamps:00:00 - Coming up00:32 - Intro music02:00 - The cost of conversion05:49 - What is the Grail10:05 - Other hints of the Grail15:30 - To remain veiled17:45 - Who the stories are for19:42 - The place of chivalry24:46 - The Holy Virgin29:31 - Longing34:12 - Weakness has a seat at the table36:48 - Liturgies of the wild43:42 - Christianity in publishing💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau 🔒 BECOME A PATRON: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
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410
428 - Why they want you to think Christmas is pagan
In this video I discuss the persistence of the idea that Christmas was "stolen" by Christians from the pagans, or that it's secretly still pagan. Merry Christmas everyone. Christ is born!YouTube version: https://youtu.be/uh6rhiTrTnkChristmas symbolism playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLVX4HUUPrIY9MeGP5IILeRzu62Q1NPT4CNEW COURSE: The Quest for the Holy Grail with Dr. Martin ShawIn the dark heart of January, when the nights are long and the world draws close, Dr. Martin Shaw returns to Symbolic World Courses for an intensive week-long journey to tell one of the greatest stories of the Medieval imagination: Parzival and the Holy Grail.Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-quest-for-the-holy-grail Cost: $160 USDDates of live course: January 12-16, 2026Time: 12 PM-2 PM EST, except for Lecture 3 (January 14) which will be at 4PM-6PM EST💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau 🔒 BECOME A PATRON: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
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409
427 - Dr. Iain McGilchrist - Artificial Intelligence, Possession, and Mental Illness
In this conversation, I speak with British psychiatrist, neuroscientist, and author Dr. Iain McGilchrist about intelligence, mental illness, and AI.Original YouTube version: https://youtu.be/DRtpKyKJcssGet Dr. McGilchrist’s books: https://channelmcgilchrist.com/home/ APPLICATIONS OPEN: Ralston seeks 25 students with the curiosity and courage to find light in the darkness. Our one-year MA in the Humanities begins with two months learning Ancient and Modern Greek in Greece, before moving to beautiful Savannah, GA. Full and partial scholarships are available. The deadline for priority consideration is December 18, 2025. Visit https://www.ralston.ac/humanities-maNEW COURSE: The Quest for the Holy Grail with Dr. Martin ShawIn the dark heart of January, when the nights are long and the world draws close, Dr. Martin Shaw returns to Symbolic World Courses for an intensive week-long journey to tell one of the greatest stories of the Medieval imagination: Parzival and the Holy Grail.Catch the early bird sale of 15% off if you register before midnight December 19: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-quest-for-the-holy-grail Cost: $160 USDDates of live course: January 12-16, 2026Time: 12 PM-2 PM EST, except for Lecture 3 (January 14) which will be at 4PM-6PM ESTTimestamps:00:00 Coming up00:43 Intro music01:07 Introduction to Ralston College and Its Mission10:57 The Impact of Artificial Intelligence on Society21:02 Intelligence and Consciousness30:57 The Dangers of Alien Intelligence39:17 Understanding Addiction and Mental Illness46:04 Possession and Mental Health: A New Perspective52:11 The Left Hemisphere and Its Malign Influence01:03:37 AI: The Modern Sorcerer's Apprentice01:11:11 All We Can Do💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau 🔒 BECOME A PATRON: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
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408
426 - Andrew Gould - Monks and Pirates: Two Extremes that Explain the Rest of Us
In this conversation filmed (by Deacon Seraphim Rohlin) in the Florida Keys, I sit down with my friend Andrew Gould to finally revisit a surprising claim he made years ago—that pirates and Orthodox monks share deep symbolic parallels. We discuss ships and treasure, costumes, death imagery, life on the edge of empire, all converging on how these two seemingly opposite extremes strangely mirror each other. Let me know if you like the format of this video.Original YouTube version: https://youtu.be/WjMadP6DScMNEW COURSE: The Quest for the Holy Grail with Dr. Martin ShawIn the dark heart of January, when the nights are long and the world draws close, Dr. Martin Shaw returns to Symbolic World Courses for an intensive week-long journey to tell one of the greatest stories of the Medieval imagination: Parzival and the Holy Grail.Catch the early bird sale of 15% off if you register before midnight December 19: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-quest-for-the-holy-grailCost: $160 USDDates of live course: January 12-16, 2026Time: 12 PM-2 PM EST, except for Lecture 3 (January 14) which will be at 4PM-6PM EST💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau 🔒 BECOME A PATRON: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
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407
425 - The Cosmic Dance of Decorating a Christmas Tree
This is a repost of a patron video I made several years ago about decorating the Christmas tree as a family. Support us for access to more video like this.Original YouTube version: https://youtu.be/9y32OFyvskgNEW COURSE: The Quest for the Holy Grail with Dr. Martin ShawIn the dark heart of January, when the nights are long and the world draws close, Dr. Martin Shaw returns to Symbolic World Courses for an intensive week-long journey to tell one of the greatest stories of the Medieval imagination: Parzival and the Holy Grail.Catch the early bird sale of 15% off if you register before midnight December 19: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-quest-for-the-holy-grail Cost: $160 USDDates of live course: January 12-16, 2026Time: 12 PM-2 PM EST, except for Lecture 3 (January 14) which will be at 4PM-6PM EST🔒 BECOME A PATRON: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
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406
424 - Universal History: The American Religion - with Dcn Seraphim Rohlin
"Americans who think they are Christians, truly are something else; intensely religious, but devout in the American Religion."In this episode of Universal History, I sit down again with Deacon Seraphim Rohlin to explore the roots and characteristics of the true "American religion". We trace how movements in American history shaped the spiritual landscape that eventually gave rise to Mormonism, Adventism, spiritualism, and perhaps even your own journey back to traditional Christianity.Original YouTube version: https://youtu.be/0_RKBPaQAykPrevious episode: https://youtu.be/o9rMy6lde0c?si=b8d-6tbkuIgAbl4KParadiso live course details:The Symbolic World Enters ParadiseJoin me and Deacon Seraphim Rohlin in our course on Dante's Paradiso.-Course length: 5 weeks, 15 hours-Dates of live classes: Wednesdays, November 5th to December 10th, 2025-Time: 2-5 pm Eastern Time-Cost: 190 USD (Involved patrons get 10% off, apply discount code at checkout)-Register today: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/dantes-paradiso💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau 🔒 BECOME A PATRON: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
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405
423 - Catholic Unscripted - Violence as the New Normal
This is a repost of an interview I did a few months ago on the Catholic Unscripted Podcast after the Charlie Kirk assassination. We discuss the topic of violence, the end of the World War 2 consensus, Israel, enchantment, science and technology, sex and gender, architecture, the structure of a normal vs a crumbling society, and more. Enjoy.YouTube version on my channel: https://youtu.be/TeCjedp6dJAOriginal interview on Catholic Unscripted YouTube channel: https://youtu.be/SSn_q-HQeFg?si=K7RkdByVEFDnoP4jThe Catholic Unscripted Podcast is a UK online apostolate founded by Katherine Bennett, and Mark Lambert. Subscribe at https://www.catholicunscripted.com/BLACK FRIDAY SALE. Get 30% off courses, 20% off books, and 25% off the Tales For Once & Ever bundle. Use code: BLACKFRIDAY2025 for courses, other discounts are applied automatically. Valid through Dec 3. Don't miss out: https://store.thesymbolicworld.comParadiso live course details:The Symbolic World Enters ParadiseJoin me and Deacon Seraphim Rohlin this November in our course on Dante's Paradiso.-Course length: 5 weeks, 15 hours-Dates of live classes: Wednesdays, November 5th to December 3rd, 2025-Time: 2-5 pm Eastern Time-Cost: 190 USD (Involved patrons get 10% off, apply discount code at checkout)-Register today: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/dantes-paradiso💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau 🔒 BECOME A PATRON: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
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404
422 - Why Exaggeration Is Necessary in Storytelling
Given we're still in the fall season, I watched The Conjuring and it got me thinking about how real events can become exaggerated in story form. In this video, I look at how legends are created, and that exaggeration of certain elements of an event can help amplify the meaning and purpose of why we're paying attention to it in the first place.Original YouTube version: https://youtu.be/fA2cKrvYyTkParadiso live course details:The Symbolic World Enters ParadiseJoin me and Deacon Seraphim Rohlin this November in our course on Dante's Paradiso.-Course length: 5 weeks, 15 hours-Dates of live classes: Wednesdays, November 5th to December 3rd, 2025-Time: 2-5 pm Eastern Time-Cost: 190 USD (Involved patrons get 10% off, apply discount code at checkout)-Register today: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/dantes-paradiso💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau 🔒 BECOME A PATRON: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
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ABOUT THIS SHOW
Jonathan Pageau looks at symbolism in all its forms, from its source in sacred stories and images to contemporary culture and ultimately how it shapes the world we encounter.
HOSTED BY
Jonathan Pageau
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