#92 Joscha Bach: “The Nature Of Reality is Even Weirder Than We Previously Thought”

Joscha Bach is a cognitive scientist, AI researcher, and philosopher of mind whose work has shaped how we think about synthetic consciousness and the architecture of thought itself.He developed the MicroPsi cognitive architecture, has held research roles at MIT and Harvard, and just co-founded the California Institute of Machine Consciousness with Karl Friston — a lab dedicated to building minds that know they exist.Expect to learn how emotions are compressed value functions for simulated agents, how brains create recursive world models to predict and control experience, why the self might just be a stabilizing hallucination, how synthetic minds could surpass biological ones, why Joscha sees spirits as information processes, and how consciousness might emerge anywhere complex systems learn to model themselves.We also explore the implications of Michael Levin’s work, the ethics of synthetic selves, why nature is already computational, and what’s truly at the bedrock of reality. This conversation is strange, deep, and unforgettable.Timestamps:00:00 Journey into Consciousness and AI02:59 The Intersection of Neuroscience and AI05:52 Understanding Consciousness: A Second Order Perception08:53 Consciousness: An Evolved Property or Fundamental Reality?12:03 The Concept of Spirit in Consciousness14:56 Exploring Consciousness in Non-Brain Systems18:00 The Nature of Consciousness in Organisms21:12 The Role of Software in Consciousness23:52 The Potential of Xenobots and Consciousness37:06 Emergence of Artificial Life40:12 The Nature of Consciousness43:56 Comparing Consciousness Across Species46:58 The Role of Social Structures in Consciousness54:39 Biological Ingredients for Consciousness01:10:55 Building Conscious AI01:16:38 Exploring Ethical Constraints in AI Experiments01:18:11 The Nature of Consciousness in AI01:22:18 Comparing Consciousness: LLMs vs. Xenobots01:24:19 The Binary Nature of Consciousness01:27:01 Agency vs. Consciousness: A Complex Relationship01:32:34 The Horrors of Conscious Existence01:37:41 Concerns About AI and Society01:40:14 The Role of AI in Society's Future01:46:57 The Urgency of AI Development01:51:03 The Future of AI and Society......❤️ Subscribe to our main channel - https://www.youtube.com/@thegiantsshoulder?sub_confirmation=1💚 Follow on Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/5m3Gta5MtIYdk59pb2GJ7M?si=Ka2rAQv7TyqiC9wvGwERpA💜 Follow on Apple Podcasts - https://podcasts.apple.com/ie/podcast/the-giants-shoulder/id1752486249Download my FREE EBook 26 Neuroscience Books for 2026 HERE: https://thegiantsshoulder.com/