ACT Then and Now: Why the Originator Turned a Framework Into an Invitation with Dr. Steven C. Hayes

What does it actually mean to practice ACT — and how would you know if you already are? Dr. Steven C. Hayes, the originator of acceptance and commitment therapy, joins the podcast to talk about the 45-year arc of ACT's development, where the field of psychotherapy has gone wrong, and what it would mean to truly serve the person sitting in front of you. This conversation covers the six core processes of psychological flexibility, why randomized controlled trials may be misleading your clinical work, and why Dr. Hayes thinks every therapist should start by trying ACT on themselves. If you have been ACT-curious, or if you have been using elements of it without naming it, this episode gives you the bones.Episode Timestamps0:00 — Introduction1:27 — What ACT is, and why it may already be in your practice2:41 — ACT in a single sentence: open, aware, and actively engaged4:48 — The origin story: personal suffering, panic disorder, and the limits of existing evidence-based therapy8:08 — Did ACT precede DBT? Dr. Hayes on Marsha Linehan and the shared roots of third-wave approaches10:35 — Process-based therapy: why the technique matters less than the mechanism13:29 — What to do instead of drawing a fence around your modality21:27 — The six core processes of psychological flexibility, explained one by one29:32 — Reaching more people: how ACT is being used in lower- and middle-income countries33:28 — Why your journal articles may be statistically misleading you (the ergodic theorem)38:30 — Idiographic measurement: tracking the individual, not the aggregate43:00 — PsychFlex and the Personalized Life Assessment Network: tools you can use now48:51 — The eugenics roots of standard statistical methods in psychology52:29 — The neurodiversity movement and what it gets right56:00 — Outcome measurement that fits the actual person1:01:35 — Where ACT is going: empowering clinicians from the bottom upEpisode HighlightsACT is not a set of techniques. It is a model built around processes of change — the small, repeatable behaviors that lift people up or push them down. A new randomized trial is published on ACT every two days.Psychological flexibility — learning to be more open, aware, and actively engaged in meaningful life — is the core target of ACT. Dr. Hayes argues it is also the mediating mechanism behind DBT, MBCT, and most other third-wave approaches.The six core processes of ACT are organized around three pairs: openness (cognitive defusion and acceptance), awareness (flexible attention and a transcendent sense of self), and engagement (values and committed action). They are not six separate things — they work as a system.The statistical methods clinicians rely on — Pearson's R, analysis of variance, factor analysis — were developed by eugenicists and assume that differences between people predict any individual's future. The ergodic theorem, proven in the 1930s, demonstrates mathematically that this assumption is false.Process-based therapy means starting with the person in front of you, identifying which processes are lifting them up or pushing them down, and choosing methods that move those processes. The label you attach to it matters less than whether it works for that person.Dr. Hayes recommends two starting points for clinicians: (1) do a perceived causal network with your client — map what matters, what helps, what hurts — and (2) track those nodes over time with a small number of personalized items. He has been doing this with himself for years.ACT has more randomized trials from lower- and middle-income countries than any other psychotherapy model. Dr. Hayes attributes this to the process-based approach: when clinicians are empowered to apply principles in their own cultural language, the framework travels.ResourceThe Self Careapist Therapist Podcast is a biweekly conversation with Lorain Moorehead, LCSW a therapist in private practice.  With guests ranging from expert psychologists, therapists, researchers and authors, each episode offers a deep dive and keeps listeners from intern to advanced supervisor  in mind while dropping gems and aha moments for everyone who loves to learn! If you love learning and want to keep track of some future learning opportunities, grab your personal curriculum here!If you liked this episode, feel free to subscribe and leave a review! Your support helps us be a top mental health podcast and resource.  See you next week!