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This past summer, I took my family to Athens, and it was truly an incredible trip. We ate amazing food, we saw Parthenon and the Agora, and all the incredible things you can see in one of the most amazing cities in the world. And one of the things that made it special was the home we booked on Airbnb. We could see the Parthenon from our bedrooms.
It even had a small jacuzzi on the roof, and we were walking distance from everything you'd want to see. We had such an amazing time cooking and just spending time together as a family in that home on Airbnb. If you've ever had a chance to visit Athens, I cannot recommend it enough. That's the thing about Airbnb.
You're not just getting a place to sleep, you're getting a home base that fits your trip. And while you're away, your own home doesn't have to sit empty. Hosting on Airbnb can help you earn extra money on your schedule with full control. Your home might be worth more than you think.
Find out how much at airbnb.ca slash host. Hello, and welcome to the advice line on How I Build This Lab. I'm Guy Raz. This is the place where we help try to solve your business challenges.
Each week, I'm joined by a legendary founder, a former guest on the show who will help me try to help you. And this week, we have a special episode. It's a bit of a mashup. Three callers and three different former guests, but all three conversations find their way to a challenge all founders' face, which is how I play on my strengths.
By the way, if you're building something and you need advice, give us a call and you just might be the next guest on the show. Our number is 1-800-433-1298. Send us a one-minute message that tells us about your business and the issues or questions that you'd like help with. And you can also send us a voice memo at hibtid.wondery.com.
And make sure to tell us how to reach you. And also, don't forget to sign up for my newsletter. It's full of insights and ideas from some of the world's greatest entrepreneurs. You can sign up for free at Guy Raz.com or on Substack.
And we'll put all of this info in the podcast description. All right, let's get to it. Our first guest today is Troy Carter, the founder of Atom Factory, which managed stars like Lady Gaga and John Legend. Troy was first on Highville Fest back in 2018.
He told us about how he got a star working for the Fresh Prince in West Philadelphia and how he eventually went from there all the way to the top of the music business in L.A. It's an amazing story, and we'll put a link to it in the show notes to check it out. Of course, Troy has a lot of experience managing celebrities, but he cautioned our callers on the advice line to be careful with big names and influencers. It's not enough for you to be excited about a celebrity partner.
The celebrity needs to be excited about your brand as well. Welcome to the advice line to run with me and Troy Carter. Tell us your name and where you're calling from and just have one line about your business, please. Hello, I am Honor, and I'm an Aussie, and my brand is Dosey, and we make beautiful pill organizers because pill takers deserve pretty things, too.
All right, pill organizers. Welcome to the show, Honor. Thank you for joining us. The company's called Dosey, and you make organizers for pills.
You can go to CVS and get a plastic case with a Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday on it, but yours are nicer. They're more elegant. Yeah, they're pretty. That was the whole thing when I wanted to create the brand because I'm a pill taker, and I just wanted something that was aesthetic, and it felt more like me than just one of those sort of cheap plastic ones that you find.
Yeah, it's interesting. Interesting because it feels like a place right for disruption. Okay, how did you get into this business? What were you doing?
Were you in consumer goods before? I was in radio, in Australia. I worked in radio for 15 years, getting up at 4 a.m. and doing all the fun things for radio, and all the creativity that I was putting into that career, I just sort of got to a point where I was like, I want to sort of do my own thing, and I want to create my own creative thing and sort of channel my energy into that.
And as I said, I'm a pill taker, so I sort of was looking around at products that I could sort of reinvent, and yeah, it was the good old pill organizer that I finally stumbled on. Well, it's a cool idea. I'm looking at it now. I'm looking at the website and seeing the different, like, pill cases, because when I travel, honestly, I take, like, supplements, you know, vitamins and fish oils, and I just throw them in the Ziploc bag.
Yeah, I was sitting there. I was literally sitting in a hotel one time, and I had my pills in the Ziploc bag, and, you know, I had this beautiful beauty case, I had a beautiful suitcase, I had all this beauty, and then I had these pills in the Ziploc bag, and I was just like, what is that about? You know, this is something I need to take for my health every, you know, like, a few times a day, and it's not pretty. Yeah, so you decided to go in this direction.
Smart move, by the way. I'm always in favor of people leaving mainstream journalism, media organizations, and starting on their own, as I did. Honor, are you based in Australia still? No, so I launched the brand in Australia from my spare bedroom, did, you know, the whole side hustle thing.
The brand went viral on TikTok after about six months, and I was getting so much demand from the American market that I just thought, okay, well, I'll do that, and I launched it in America after six months. Still just me, just by myself. You're now based here in the U.S.? Yeah, now I'm based in America, and it's an American company, and we have an American warehouse, and it's all very American.
Awesome. Tell me a little bit about what you project for sales this year in 2025. Yeah, so 2025, we're looking at $3.5 million. In sales?
In sales, yeah, profitably, too. That's great. So we kept everything super lean and tried to keep it as streamlined as possible and just sell as many as we can. All right, so you've got a nice business going, and you've got some profit on that, on those sales.
Tell me, before we dive in further, what's the question you have for us? Well, I wanted to talk, Troy, to you about celebrities. We're sort of at that point where it would be great to do some partnerships, but then you see these bigger brands like Rode selling for a billion dollars, or there was a glitter freckle brand that sent their stuff to Taylor Swift, and she put it on, and they went ballistic. I just, how do you make a brand and a celebrity come together and actually work?
And then even equity share, because it's not like we have billions of dollars to try with a celebrity. Yeah, that's a great question. Troy, I want to bring you in, Troy Carter. Before we answer our question, do you have any questions, Ron?
No, it sounds like an amazing business. I got a chance to take a look at the product, too. Very beautiful and elegant product. Definitely different from the ones that we see at Walgreens.
Yeah, for sure. So, Troy, what do you think? I mean, if it's a product like this, you want to get a celebrity involved because the idea is that they're going to help sales, what's the approach? The way I would look at it is, who would be my ideal person slash partner for this?
And because this is a very specific category, it has to be directly related to being part of that person's lifestyle, essentially. So, one, that's probably a narrow list. And being able to sort of, from that list, kind of look at, does the brand values align? Is there any sort of reputational risk?
How many other partnerships do they have and how have they performed in those other partnerships? And what type of commitment will they give to the brand? Because there's certain things that happen sort of in front of the camera, but a lot of times there's more important things that happen behind the camera. You know, so in terms of are they going to meet with the head of sales for your largest distributor or show up at certain events that might not be publicized?
But, like, how can you get the most out of that partnership and create mutual value? You know, John Legend's a really good example of somebody who is a great partner for a brand. And I'm not saying your specific brand. I'm just saying where John is a guy who, behind the scenes, John can meet with any president CEO of any company and clearly articulate the vision of the company.
Because he's done an incredible amount of diligence before even the first meeting. And so by the time he says yes, he's knowledgeable and a real commitment around it. And that's the type of partner that you would want. That's an interesting example, John.
Let me ask you a question, Honor. Do you have a specific celebrity or specific types of celebrities in mind that you want to work with? It's a tricky one. Like, I get it.
Because you need them to be sort of in that wellness space, I guess. I mean, I'd love Selena Gomez. She's definitely in that space. So, you know, there's that sort of thing.
One of the things that I would say, and, you know, when I look at, you know, we invested in a company called Thrive Market. And when they first started, they found mom influencers and health influencers. And you can hear the episode on how I built this. Yeah, exactly.
And I love those guys. But what worked really well, and we've seen a lot of other companies replicate it, is when you're dealing with social influencers, they are used to promoting things. And that is built into their lifestyle. With celebrities, a lot of times, they're going to look at a contract and it's going to say, you've got to make four social posts.
You've got to show up to an event. It's very rigid, right? So you want to make sure that whoever you're bringing into your company, they're going to do work in terms of promoting a brand, but also do things that live outside of the contract. But influencers, you know, they call them influencers for a reason.
They have a lot of influence. And so if you can find ones that are super authentic to your cause, it could be a great marriage. And then that way, it doesn't have to be just one. You can figure out, okay, let me pick three or four people that I feel like I have brand alignment with and use that as a platform.
Yeah, I want to throw out an idea for you, Honor, because I think one of the challenges right now is I'm thinking about who would endorse this product, right? And when you think about a pill case, you think about medication, right? And medication is very personal, right? If someone's taking antidepressants or medication for heart issues, people don't necessarily want to talk about that openly.
But I think one of the things that's interesting is probably a lot of people using your product, they're using it for supplements, fish oil or soft palmetto or vitamins, multivitamins. The one thing I don't see on your site is a product that would appeal to men. This is still a very – it's beautiful. It's very feminine.
And guys travel. And they might be taking creatine and vitamin D and vitamin multivitamin and fish oil and all these supplements, right? And so to me, it seems like there's an opportunity to create a case for the male traveler, too. Because I think a lot of people think of pill cases.
I think of old people who are infirm and sick and they have dementia and they can't remember to take their medication. What you're doing is something different. Like, hey, you're a traveler. You're dynamic.
You're busy. You're on the road. And here's a great way to organize your supplements. And the thing is, too, guy, whether you're taking supplements or you're taking medication, you don't want to seem like the senior citizen pulling out that case or whatever, right?
And when you think about the health influencers like Huberman and people with really large followings that are also recommending these supplements or whatever, it seems like that would be a great partnership. So great idea, guy. Yeah, I would look into that. And then I would start with micro-influencers, people with 50,000 followers or cheaper.
You can find people who've got their tribe and start there. But I would really think about position creating another design that maybe might appeal to men or that's more active-looking, in a sense. Does that make sense? Yeah, so we do get that feedback.
Like, where are the ones for the boys? It's just a slow process with molding and production. And we sell out all the time, and we're just constantly trying to keep up. So it's just one of those small business things where you've just got money stuck in product on boats and in warehouses and all the rest of it.
Also, one last thing I would try, which is, and please, I hope I'm not encouraging listeners to do this. Please don't do it. But they'll do it anyway. I get sent a lot of stuff, okay?
My mailing address is on my website. It's public. I get sent endless amounts of stuff. I don't see it all, and I appreciate it.
It's really nice. If I can try it, I will. But I do think it's worth it identifying, you know, five or ten people that you do want to work with. You know, Gasolina Gomez, but maybe there are people who are not as high-profile, who don't receive that much stuff, right, that you think could be interesting.
Just send them one and send a handwritten note and say, hey, I admire you. I use this for my supplements. I know you travel a lot. You're on set.
And tell me what you think. You know, I'd love to partner with yours. Whatever. Just try that.
It's not that hard to find them. And why is celebrity important to you? You know, I mean, I'm an Aussie. I'm in America, and it's all about celebrity.
It feels like, yeah. I just presume that they have the influence, and they have the power, and they have the momentum behind them. They can. Sometimes it depends.
Troy, right? I mean, you've seen a lot of celebrity brands that just fizzle out. But I do think what Troy said earlier about finding that person with the authentic connection to it, I believe in it, is the key. Right, Troy?
Yeah. You know, it's most celebrity partnerships don't work. The majority don't work. The other piece that I find is when celebrities invest, they're more committed.
Yeah, because that would be good. So it's not just this sort of one-way transaction of you writing a check or giving up equity, but it's for them to have some skin in the game and really feel a part of it. You get more of a partnership out of it. Yeah, I just listened to Hickstack, and they got Gordon Ramsay.
They did. I mean, oh. But it was hard, right? And it takes time.
And whoop bands, wristbands, you know, Will and Ned send one to LeBron James' trainer, right? And so not to LeBron, but his trainer. So there are ways to do it. It doesn't always work, but it does often work for the celebrity, especially if they're paid money.
Ask Larry David, who got $10 million to do an FTX commercial. Honor Elliot, the brand is called Dozy. Congrats. Good luck.
Thank you so much. Awesome product. Thanks for calling in. Thank you.
I really actually appreciate that, what you said, Troy, about celebrity partnerships. Most of the time, they don't work. And I think that is so true. And I think a lot of people put too much faith in the power of celebrity.
And the power of celebrity is vastly diminished today than it was 10, 15, 20, 30 years ago. It is. And you can clearly see it through TikTok. Yeah.
Like, people who can actually move product and move the needle is not what it used to be, where you could just put a famous face next to your product, and people believe the famous face. Yeah. I mean, there are plenty of brands that just don't move. You know, they don't sell.
If the person connected to them is not seen as somebody who's important or interesting in that space, right? If you have a product or a brand that is coming from somebody who really genuinely lives that way, it's different. Yeah. We're going to take a quick break, but when we come back, Joe Jebbia, co-founder of Airbnb, joins me on The Advice Line.
Stay with us. You are listening to a special mashup episode of The Advice Line on How I Built This Lab. Hey, welcome back to The Advice Line on How I Built This Lab. I'm Guy Raz.
So our next return guest is Joe Jebbia. He co-founded Airbnb. And Joe was one of our very first guests on the show back in 2016. And we'll put a link to that episode in the podcast description.
When Joe and his co-founders, including Brian Chesky, first launched Airbnb, it was a controversial idea. A lot of people thought, why would I ever open up my house to strangers from the internet? But Joe and Brian and their other co-founder, Nate, stuck with it. And eventually, Airbnb became one of the most legendary unicorns in Silicon Valley.
Anyway, Joe came back onto the show to help our callers figure out what makes their businesses stand out from the rest. All right. Hello, caller. Welcome to The Advice Line.
You are on with Joe Jebbia, co-founder of Airbnb. Please tell us where you are calling from, the name of your business, and a little bit about it. Hey, Guy Raz, Joe. My name is R.V.
And I'm calling from Johannesburg, South Africa. I'm the founder of Product Optics, a company specializing in manufacturing outdoor and sporting optical products. Over the past few years, we've built a strong reputation in the safari and outdoor markets with partnerships in wildlife conservation and high-end safari lodges. My question is about scaling my business.
I'd like to get guidance on how to approach major retail players and, of course, securing the necessary investment to expand into mass retail while staying true to our core values. Awesome. R.V., welcome to the show. All the way from Johannesburg.
Thank you for listening to the show and for calling in. Pro it up. Okay. Tell me a little bit about what you sell.
What are your main products? Binoculars, rangefinders for golf. You know, the safari and outdoor space is mostly binoculars, spotting scopes, which we supply to safari lodges throughout Africa. Got it.
Okay. Tell me a little bit about your background. What gave you this idea to start this kind of business? You know, funny enough, we started specifically on the golf side, and we thought we'd build, like, a really, really big business, just particularly in golf.
And what we got to learn very quickly is, you know, the market wasn't as big as we thought. For rangefinders. For rangefinders, that is. And, you know, specifically in the southern hemisphere, because for a very long time, those markets have been dominated by international brands.
And having come to college to the U.S., each time I went back home, it was really hard to find specific batteries for these rangefinder devices. And I was like, wow, well, this is very interesting. And that's kind of how I got into the space. And then, obviously, like I said, we started in golf, and we saw more opportunity on the outdoor side, and that's where Product Optics was born.
And so you, I'm assuming you came to the U.S. to play golf? Yes, yeah. I came on a golf scholarship from 2016.
And so, funny enough, this is such a massive full-circle moment for me, because, guy, I started listening to how I bought this the first, basically the first year I moved to the U.S. Oh, nice. Well, here you are. Now you're on it.
Okay, well, so a couple questions. So, you're looking to figure out how to scale, how to get into retail, and this has a lot to answer there. And I'm Arvind Joe, owner of Joe Jevia from Airbnb. Joe, questions for Arvind first?
Oh, Arvind, it's great to meet you, and congratulations. I would ask a couple things. You know, relative to other things on the market, if you want to get into, say, the northern hemisphere, what do you think your competitive advantages are? I think our biggest competitive advantage is the fact that we have a high-quality product to set an affordable price, right?
We're not too far off from your top-end brands in the market, and so definitely price point sets us apart. But I think a very important part of that is, you know, we're obsessed with Africa, we're obsessed with travel, and I think a big part of that is, you know, we play a massive role in, you know, the conservation of, you know, wildlife. And I think that's really what sets us apart to any other optics player, is not only do we speak the game of wildlife conservation, but we're on the ground and we're wanting to do it. Arvind, I'm curious, because I'm looking at your website now, and so your binoculars, the prices are in South African rands, but I think they're roughly about $220 right now.
That's correct. Roughly. So, I mean, $221, right? Seems like a good value, but again, I don't know, because their binoculars are probably $50 and some that are $5,000.
Sure. So how are you positioning, or how can you position what you're selling to underscore the value proposition? Sure. We back all our products with a 10-year warranty.
So regardless of the price points, we give you that peace of mind to know that, hey, if anything goes wrong with your optics, you send them back to us, no questions asked, we replace them all, we actually, you know, repair them ourselves. And I think that's been a big thing. And like I said earlier, you know, the African market in sporting optics has been dominated by international brands for a long time, but they're dominated by distributing brands, right? And what I mean by that is, there's no actual brand presence in the country that these products are consumed.
And I think where we had opportunity is to have that actual presence. You know, we're very proud to be one of Africa's first ever sporting optics companies. I think that's a great value proposition, the durability and robustness of what you're offering. I'm looking on the website right now, and I was trying to find where that showed up.
I see it. It's at the bottom, and it's the fourth FAQ down at the bottom of the front of the homepage. I think it's a super valuable, interesting part of why you buy from the product up. You may want to bring it up higher on the webpage.
Yeah, I mean, so there are a couple of stories you're telling. You're telling a story about value, quality, guarantee. That's one story. And that's, you know, a good story to tell.
And there are going to be a lot of businesses and brands that tell that story. But to me, the story that you're not telling here that I think you could really tell something you just referred to, which is this is a South African brand. I mean, people come to South Africa and Tanzania and Kenya from around the world to go on safari, right? People come to California and, well, South Africa, too, drink wine.
Or France, right? So you want to drink a French or South African or California wine when you're there, right? So to me, there seems like there's an opportunity here to lean into, hey, this is an African brand. We know what you need on safari.
And so I feel like that story isn't being told on you. Joe, you know what I mean, Joe? I completely agree. It's like you do have a point of view that another binoculars company that's not based there, they can't do it.
That's actually a very unique selling point for you guys from a surface standpoint. Yeah, I mean, I feel like, you know, you asked about how do you expand into retail, how do you grow an international footprint. I feel like you have a little work to do on really developing the brand, especially if you're the only South African optics brand, binoculars, rangefinders. That to me just feels like a great opportunity to really lean into that.
Maybe you kind of play around with a slight rebrand, nothing too extensive, but a rebrand where you kind of work on a new logo, you really lean into this being a brand from South Africa. Absolutely. I think that's absolutely valuable. And, you know, a big part of the story we're telling is how obsessed we are with Africa, how obsessed we are with the outdoors.
I think that brings a great point. You know, you have the credibility to claim your space as a South African company or African company. And specifically, it's about safari. It's about enjoying wildlife.
I think you can double down on that more. And I think the visuals and the way you present on the website right now, it's like the product is in the consumer's hand, which maybe it's fine because they're the end consumer. It's kind of like, I'm going to see this in the hands of somebody who's in the bush all day and night. You know, somebody who's like a real, they've got mud on their hands.
And they've been sitting in a tent for the last two weeks. And they choose your product because it has a durability because they know if something breaks, they can send it back to you. It's got all the functionality that you need in order to do what you need to do out in nature. I love that.
I'm going to give you one suggestion, okay? Because you asked, how do you get into retail outlets, expand internationally? I think it's a step-by-step process for you. There's an episode we did the show about Sunbom, Sun Time Lotion.
It's a huge brand in America. It's one of the top 10 brands. Started by a guy named Tom Rinks. And Tom very deliberately started his brand.
But what he did was, initially, he went to very few boutiques in Hawaii, to hotel gift shops and boutiques in Hawaii. And he only sold Sunbom there because he knew that tourists from around the world go to Waikiki Beach and certain hotels in Hawaii, particularly wealthier tourists from Asia and also wealthy tourists from the mainland of the U.S. By exposing them to this brand there, they would bring it back with them. And that's how he could start to expand the brand.
And, of course, he did eventually sell the brand to S.E. Johnson for hundreds of millions of dollars. That could be an interesting model. You may already be doing this.
Safari lodges, are you selling the binoculars there in their gift shops? Are you selling them in hotels in South Africa? Are you in touch with adventure shops in Europe and in the United States? And I think that's really how you do it.
You've got to go step-by-step very methodically before you can think about a bigger, more scaled plan. Right. So a big part of our model is going directly to the Safari lodges. So we service in currently over 100 Safari lodges throughout Africa.
And so I think our approach with that is we have a three-pronged approach. We put it on their vehicles, put it in their rooms, and then we also offer it in their cura shops. So we take you through this entire experience where you try it, you have it in front of you, and you buy it. And you know what?
When you've got tourists like the Jebbia family on Safari, no, serious, you've got people coming from around the world to see it, that's where you're going to start to see traction. Arby, good luck. The brand's called Pro It Up. We will be watching you on, man.
Good luck. Thank you so much, Guy, and I appreciate you, Joe. Good luck, Arby. Thank you.
Awesome. Joe, I do not think you're a golfer. Have you been on Safari before? I went on Safari in Penny once.
Pretty cool, right? It was unbelievable. It was 6 a.m., and sure enough, there was a male lion crossing the road right in front. It was like one of the first sites that we saw, and it looked like he had had a long night, and it was going on for a long night out.
Long night out eating other animals. We're going to take another quick break, but when we come back, Sadie Lincoln, founder of Bar 3, joins me right here on The Advice Line. Stay with us. I'm Guy Raz, and you're listening to a special mashup episode of The Advice Line on How I Built This Lab.
Welcome back to The Advice Line on How I Built This Lab. I'm Guy Raz. So our last return guest is Sadie Lincoln, and when Sadie first came on the show back in 2018, she told us about how she launched her fitness company, Bar 3. Sadie and her husband gave up what seemed like the perfect life and sold basically everything they owned to pursue this idea.
And that bet worked out pretty well. Today, there are over 200 Bar 3 studios across the U.S., and if you want to hear that story, we will put a link to it in the show notes. Here on The Advice Line, Sadie reminded our callers that their customers can be their greatest strength, not just because they buy their products, but also because they want to see the businesses they love succeed. Hello.
Welcome to The Advice Line. You are on with Sadie Lincoln. Hi, Guy and Sadie. This is Captain Genevieve from GoSailPartners.
I'm a solo-funded CEO and founder of a sailing company. We offer premium learn-to-sail vacations in two locations right now, on the Caribbean, the Virgin Islands, and Western Montana, Flathead Lake. All right. Well, thanks so much for calling in, Genevieve.
So you've got a company that teaches sailing on vacation, and tell me where you're calling from. I'm calling from Montana today. Montana. Okay.
So you run a sailing business, and I'm sorry to ask, is there sailing in Montana? I know. That's a common question I get, and actually, Montana has gorgeous sailing. It's a lake called Flathead, and it's the largest lake west of the Mississippi.
It's 27 miles long, 17 miles wide. We get great wind. It's clear, beautiful water. It's awesome.
Who knew? Montana, the home of... All right. So you have a business where you basically offer learn-to-sail vacation packages, and you can do it in Montana or in the Virgin Islands?
Yep. In the British, the U.S., and Spanish Virgin Islands, we offer week-long live-aboard sailing vacations for people who are looking to bareboat charter, you know, learn how to sail boats that are 40, 50 feet long. Wow. And do you own these boats?
Well, I have one boat that I race pretty regularly, and I've had boats in the past, but I've really learned the best policy is other people's boats, so I charter boats to use for the classes. You basically, you've got boats that you lease in these places, and then you've got people who you hire to then teach other people how to sail. Is that more or less business? Yes, that's exactly what it is.
We have eight captains that work for us and nine other fractional employees, and we will get a booking with someone who wants to go on a learn-to-sail vacation, and then we sign a captain, and they go on the scheduled trip and learn how to operate that vessel during a week-long live-aboard class. Got it. Okay. And tell us what your question is.
My question is really for you, Sadie and Guy, is how to grow and scale and let go. I feel like I'm getting to the point with sales where I need to hire someone, but it's a very highly technical and knowledge-based sales position because of the sailing window, the places that we go, and getting the right person that can convey that. You know, right now, one of our best salespeople is me because I say, hi, I'm Captain Genevieve. Let me help you plan your vacation.
Got it. Okay. Before we take questions, Sadie, any thoughts, questions? How many people are on your excursions when you go to learn to sail?
Is it one-on-one? Is it groups? And also, what kind of person? What type of person?
Most of the people who take courses are in three categories. One, we have families who are multi-generation, so we have 70-year-olds that are taking sailing lessons with 10-year-olds, and that would be a private group and up to 60 students during the week, and it's modified and customized to the age groups that are there. And then the second main group that we have are sailing couples, so people who want to sell their business, cash out, go buy a boat, and go live on it. And then our third main group is single people who are, you know, in retired mode, and they want to spend their retirement years sailing, and they are, let's say, 55 to 75, and they want to come and learn on the boat how to operate it because they're planning to rent a boat of this size, bring their family for vacations, cruise around the Caribbean, that kind of thing.
Got it. Okay. And are you looking to do less? I mean, are you looking to be less hands-on with the business?
Is that what you're hoping to do? Is that your challenge? Well, as we're growing, I'm starting to just become overwhelmed with the volume of calls and communications and sales leads, and I want to make sure that everything's getting followed through the correct way so each customer gets the value, the quality, the connection, because we certify about 300 to 400 sailors a year, and it's just getting to be quite a volume. And I'd like to expand to some other locations.
Genevieve, as an experience share, there's some similarities, right, of your business and mine. I started out teaching Bar 3. I taught 19 classes a week. Wow.
And I had that awkward moment where I was like, how do I pull out of this and hire people to help me? Because there was nobody else teaching Bar 3 or Bar in all of Portland. And so my first best team members were clients who loved the product, who learned the product with me, and enjoyed Bar 3 authentically, and came from a background as sales, operations, marketing, finance, those areas that I didn't have the time nor really the desire to drill down into. So I pulled my first team right from my very first clients.
So that's one suggestion, if you haven't already, is to really tap into all those people who have already experienced this with you. If they can't work for you, do they know someone who could? I'm guessing the kind of caliber of person who can take the time and resources to do something like that probably has a pretty strong Rolodex and community. I agree.
I think that's good advice. I've actually thought about reaching out to other American sailing instructors that I've worked with in the past to see if they'd be interested in spending a little less time on the boats and maybe helping out with the sails. Well, I was actually wondering about not necessarily your instructors, but the people who are learning to sail with you. Just even having a casual conversation with them on the boat and training your instructors to have this conversation with them.
Hey, we're looking for a videographer to market our programs better. Do you happen to know someone who would be interested in this? I agree. I think that that's a great idea.
And I think we can definitely reach out to some of those. And they probably want you to be successful. Yes. They want you to keep going.
They're rooting for you. Yeah, they really do. Yeah, it's really cool. It's really special.
And, Genevieve, tell me, what's the sort of broad ambition for, you know, like in five or ten years from now? What do you want this to look like? I can see that we would be in five to ten years in more locations. We've kind of put together a very succinct model that allows people, a lot of different age groups, to be able to come and do these classes.
So we have a trail that all of our students are typically going on. And I can see that this is a system that works and is differentiated from other sailing schools because the boats that other schools use are all older. They don't have as much communication. They don't have as much availability.
They don't have as experienced as instructors. And so I've got a model of a franchise potentially. That's what really inspired me about your story, Sadie. It was hiring your customers to then be instructors and then take on, you know, their own studio and their own space.
And then in their own sailing community, they can really use the backbone and the foundation of what you developed in order to make it their own. Right. You have the template. You've proven it out as well.
Yeah. Genevieve Evans, a brand of this called GoSailVersion. Congrats. Thanks so much for calling in.
Thank you. Good luck. Bye. I could use a sailing vacation right now, Sadie.
Let's do it. Hey, thanks so much for listening to this special mashup edition of The Advice Line on How I Built This Lab. And special thanks to Troy Carter of Atom Factory, Joe Jebbia of Airbnb, and Sadie Lincoln of Bar 3 for joining me on the show. Again, if you haven't heard their original episodes or their full episodes of The Advice Line, you'll definitely want to check them out.
We will put links to them in the show notes. By the way, please make sure to check out my newsletter. You can sign up for it for free at GuyRoz.com or on Substack. And, of course, if you are working on a business and you'd like to be on the show, send us a one-minute message that tells us a little bit about your business and the questions or issues that you're currently facing because we would love to try and help you solve them.
You can send us a voice memo at hibt and id.wondery.com or call us at 1-800-433-1298. Leave a message there and make sure to tell us how to reach you and we'll put all of this information in the podcast description as well. This episode was produced by Noor Gill and Alex Chung with music composed by Ramtina Ablui. It was edited by Andrea Bruce.
Our engineers were James Willits and Maggie Luthar. Our production staff also includes Casey Herman, Sam Paulson, Carla Estevez, Kerry Thompson, Catherine Seifer, Romel Wood, Niva Grant, and Elaine Coates. I'm Guy Raz. I'm listening to the advice line right here on How I Built This Lab.