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I'm Guy Ross. So wherever you are right now, chances are there is a screen within arms reach, maybe its phone or tablet or a smartwatch. And over the past decade, we've come to depend on these screens to conduct most of the business in our lives. Transportation, communication, scheduling, entertainment.
We know to all of this pretty much on our screens. But what do you do all these things without the distraction of a screen? Well, that's the idea behind the humane AI tent. It's a little square device that can do many of the same things as our screen devices.
Think of it a little like AI assistant. The difference is the humane pin is controlled by the sound of your voice. The thin-heavy touchpad, camera, built-in projector, and it's made to pin right to your clothes with a little magnet. The AI pin was created by humane co-founders, in-run child dreams, white, and white, and the g time.
And we got to work on things like multi-touch, which went on to propel things like iPhone and iPad and watch. It's all stuff that my team and I worked on. Of course, it's the famous presentation Steve Jobs gives me a stylist. When you've got five digits on your hand and that's something that you worked on, you worked on that touch screen.
The technology that enabled that. Yeah, absolutely. I think that was the fundamental unlock for making the transition from remote interactions, from a keyboard and mouse, to really allowing people to do what we call direct manipulation. And that's literally just being able to touch the screen and have a far more intimate relationship with the things that you're really using on a day to day basis.
Yeah. I mean, both of you were at Apple at just such an incredibly historic time, Beth, that you joined that 10 years after and I'm starting. But still, right after the iPhone kind of shipped. So when you joined it, and soon I guess you were kind of put in charge as a project measure, involved in the iPad.
Yeah, I joined Apple in 2008 and I was a blacker user. I was a PC user. I didn't have an iPhone, but I had a lot of admiration for what they were doing. And a couple months after I joined the iPhone team, which was pretty small at the time still.
And still treated like a startup within the company and had a lot of secrecy around what that team was up to. A lot of locked doors were where the teams were meeting and doing our work. But a couple months after I joined, they asked me if I would take on a new project and at the time they told me that they couldn't tell me what the project was. But that it would require that for the next year and a half, two years of my life, I would have to work many, many hours.
And it would be really challenging and really difficult. And it was this new project that Steve wanted to do. They couldn't tell me what it was, but they would need to know in 24 hours if I would take it on. And so I said yes, and walk into a room signed in the DA and then they told me that I was going to be leading a project to build a tablet and bring together a group of engineers and work really closely with the design team and just figure out how we can make it possible.
And that started that project for me. because of course Apple is famously as secretive as the Pentagon. And many companies talk about breaking down silos and breaking down walls and creating cross collaboration. And Apple really took it and has taken it and continued to take a completely different approach, which is a very siloed.
But I wonder if having been inside, it seems like it works. There is a method to that madness. And that kind of secrecy is probably necessary. Or do you think that with some perspective, looking back on it, it sometimes a little bit too much.
There's some advantages. You get an amazing amount of focus, which is good. And I think the projects that I worked on were all essentially 1.0s that turned into something else. And that really siloed protected space allows for those kinds of things to happen.
I think where it becomes difficult is when you come out of style, so to speak, you start to have to really need different functions of the organization to come in. And that's where you get to Loomesi. Because you don't have the relationships. Yeah, you don't.
I think some of us over time and Apple built those relationships. But in some cases you end up with a completely work that would build some animosity and things like that. So those are the things that you have to struggle with. Yeah, it's interesting.
I'm curious about your perspective. I was the two of you met at Apple and then Phil Moved and then Maryden. And now here you are today. But when the two of you were both at Apple and a couple, did you often, you could probably keep what you were working on from around an vice versa.
You probably couldn't really talk about what you did. It would be like two people were for CIA. Actually, we had the good fortune that we were building basically everything together. There were very few things that everyone was working on, mainly that I didn't know about.
For the most part, you knew everything I was directly involved in. And actually we met on my first day Apple. And we didn't really like each other that much, mainly because we were very polar opposites. And my job was to make sure that things were on schedule and on time.
And that everybody was at the table and were having great conversations. You know, in my job, my job was about pushing the boundaries of what's possible and what the world really needed in the moment. And so we used to get into a lot of few arguments actually. And I would go up to him and say, am I what are you doing?
We can't do all of this. Or this is a day to be a kid where the team can't do it. And he would push back on me and say, we have to do it. We have to make this happen.
And have you tried this? His favorite line was have they tried this? And he was always right, which was always the really frustrating part of it in most moments. And so yeah, we were had the opportunity to build a lot of things together.
Whether it was new hardware and totally new product categories or software, things like the time and I message. That were really complicated, things for billions of people that involved a lot of challenges along the way. In 2016, you both left Apple. And presumably with the idea of maybe trying to create something new to themselves.
I feel like it was time to move on to that you'd done everything you wanted there. Yeah, you know that equation of like somebody decides to move on is always a complicated one. I had an amazing opportunity there. And it was really blessed with the things that we were able to achieve around that time you were working on iPhone 10.
Which in itself is kind of like a bit of like a grand-hoed day thing. I just said that the newer version of the same thing. Yeah, we definitely were some of the things we were thinking about. But what I was really into was being able to push the limit of compute.
And what I found for myself was the environment changed a bit. And I really needed to think about where else I want to go. I wasn't at all done in terms of thinking where I wanted to take compute. But I felt as if I had reached my personal limit on Apple because everything had really started to mature.
When I took you to start it till to leave, tell me a little about some of the ideas that you had thought about things that you could do. Because it wasn't what we are going to talk about. You mean AI wasn't the original idea. Maybe there was going to be like a fitness app or wellness app or internal care app.
You guys have talked about a couple of different ideas right? Yeah, we actually started ideaing on a couple of ideas. And in Ron took his passion and started really digging into AI. And this was in 2017 he was very passionate about it.
And I really started to look into when it's health. And it was something the other area that in Ron and I were very interested in it. And mainly because women actually suffer because we never really taught how our bodies work. And we don't have the right tools to be able to care for ourselves ultimately.
And so we essentially started building two prototypes. And we had one in the space of women's health. And the other was this idea that in Ron was pushing around a new kind of computer. Tell me about that idea that you had in mind.
What were you thinking? Yeah, so always was fascinated with AI. When I was in high school, I had a job at a computer shop where I used to be able to get books and magazines and read them. And I used to read AI journals when I was in high school.
And just be fascinated by that stuff. A lot of it theoretically was something that was moving into a place of practice around the timeframe of 2017. And sparked a lot of inspiration to say, hey, I actually really want to build a new kind of computer. Something that is really going to help humanize the ability to be able to interact with AI.
And around 2017, I was able to convince Bethany that we started now that we would be where we needed to be by the time we'd be able to actually practice this stuff. Which is kind of like right now. We're going to take a quick break. We'll only come back the dinner date that convinced one of the adventures of the touchscreen to go screenless.
Say with us on Guy Ross and you're listening to how I go to the lab. Hey, welcome back to How I go to the lab. I'm Guy Ross. So it's 2017, which is a really pivotal year for AI research.
And in Around the Bethany are thinking about how their experience working for Apple might help launch their next venture. So, alright, so you knew that you wanted to do something around computing. Now you had, you were intimately involved in developing and helping to develop your names and patents around. So many of the products we use might Apple watch, my iPhone, like you're in this thing.
You had spent so much of your career working on screens. Things that we can look at. And so we're already back in 2017 where you sort of saying, a version of this year's Apple, which is can I make something that doesn't require a screen? Where you literally thinking that granular?
Yeah, that's exactly right. Like how do you actually elevate compute? Because you know, I think smartphones are great. They're really really great at what they can do now.
But they're very limited in terms of how much more they can do. And if you think about if they're able to leverage some of these multimodal inputs that use text and voice and sound and image and eventually video, you need a new kind of computer that really allows for you to take advantage of that kind of processing. And at that point, you don't need to use screens the same way. It needs screens because screens confirm everything that you're doing, whether you're typing in something properly or whether you've tapped the right button.
But if you can actually take that away, take a burden out of that way. You don't need a screen other than something for lightweight confirmation, which is kind of the underpaining stuff, what we built. I think I got it after a certain half of consulting and considering doing something in women's health space. I think around 2018, you both agreed to pursue this.
How did Iran describe what this product could be to you initially? Yeah, I've been out for the day and I came home and he said, this is what we're going to build. And he pulled out, you need a one-cater on the computer that basically described the vision for this operating system. And so this is what we need to do.
And so I said, okay, well, let's see, is it possible? And I'm the person who definitely questions sometimes is technically feasible. Are we going to be able to do this? What are the things that would prevent us from being successful?
I mean, we're on 10 to 100 steps ahead of me. So in his head, he knows where we're going and what's possible and what's not. We definitely think about things in a different way. But that really started it once we said, okay, let's build some prototypes now.
How specific was that one-patricated to say, a wearable device in the shape of the square with a camera? I mean, how specific was it? He had a diagram of the device he had a drawing that he had done. That looks very much like it does today with a couple minor exceptions.
It even had the magnetic attachment and also had a description of what it would do. Like, here are the things that you would do with it. Here's what it has when it doesn't. And I remember the time having worked on the iPhone and having had some experience there.
So this is impossible to build a phone this small and to be a standalone device. You know, you're talking about four radios. It has to have Bluetooth and Wi-Fi and GPS and a pre-powerful check. So it's a run-to-key mind.
So my first instinct was to say this is impossible. But I also know my husband pretty well. So I said, okay, let's give it a go and see if we can prove it to ourselves that we can rebuild this. It came out at the time in 2018.
This was before tragedy. It looked like a tragedy of people using it in some different ways. I'm going to Italy the summer. And I was like, give me the seven essential restaurants.
I need to eat that in Rome. And I gave it some parameters. And it's great. But in 2018, tragedy was not out yet.
How confident did you feel that within the next three years that things that you wanted this thing to do could be done? Pretty confident. I used to say this thing at Apple. If you can dream it and if you can describe it, you can make it.
I don't think a lot of people really believe that. But if you have those parameters in place and you understand how you get there and how long it's going to take, it's a much larger scale than say like a chef that imagines a recipe because it can taste the notes in their mouth. And if it's just imagining things, I sort of feel that way with this. This is the medium I understand the most.
So when you guys embarked on this project, you really went underground. You kind of went underground. You had to be like, you went to be super excited. What was that like basically going underground until 23 when you kind of came out of the underground and reveal this product?
What I mean, how did you operate? You couldn't talk about this or anybody outside the company. Yeah, it was a challenge because we also needed to hire. So we knew that there was a risk involved in sharing with people who were joining or thinking about joining what we were building.
And so we actually up until the fall of last year, every single person had joined a teammate and didn't know what they were joining to build. We didn't even tell candidates what it was. Which was kind of a radical decision, but we felt it was pretty important to make sure they were joining for the right reasons. Also, it's protecting idea because it was still pretty fragile in early stages.
But it was a challenge. And I think we also started building really an earnest in late 2018 early 2019. And we were self-funding for a good amount of that time of until the summer of 2019. And then at that point started to bring a team together and only had a couple of months really building together before COVID forced everybody into lockdown.
So there were a number of challenges along the way that were hard for a startup. Tell me what the vision was as you continued to kind of develop what this product would be. And Ron, did you think, okay, I want this to be, and again, for giving it's oversimplifying. And I know it's much more complex, but just for the less repurposes, right?
Where you sort of thinking, okay, this will be like the best personal assistant. Like how are you thinking about what this could do? Yeah, this was really more like a companion or an expert that you could take with you. And this piece that would allow you to be liberated from having to really use a computer in a conventional way.
I think it's this always with you piece that the moment you could think of something, it would allow you to act on it. And it was always there. And the results that you would get would happen, I used to say that the speed of thought, right? And mundane things like text messages would start to feel a lot more like, wait, because of that.
I want to just describe what it is for people who haven't seen the demos, but essentially it's a square. A little bit of an Apple Watch face, right? Yeah. And you can, it's six on your clothing through a magnet and it has a camera, so it can capture images and it's got a cell phone.
So you can blur your buds or not. And then it has a projector that can project like text messages or other things on your hand. So it's got all the more things that the phone has, right? But it's designed to answer questions.
Walk me through what was the hardest, what's the hardest hurdle that you had to kind of overcome to pack all that in such a small little package? Yeah, you know, I'd say the hardest part was really ensuring that everything was going to be something you're feeling. So we call that mini-trougization, making all the components small enough so that they sit there. And then making sure that they work well together, like the laser display has its own challenges.
And then the wireless power that allows you to not have the problems of a wearable that when you take it off, it's because the battery is standing there, you don't want to use it, it's an Azure keep going. The only that alone is it has its own challenges. When you bring them all together, that interference, an electrical interference that happens, the management of the heat and the weight, all of the packaging aspects and the run-time issues, bringing it all together was the biggest challenge. Yeah, the first time I saw this product, the thing that seemed appealing about to me was the absence of a screen, right?
I think that you were so good, you and your colleagues were so good at Apple, you designed such a product that it enabled many of us to be predicted. It's really interesting because I actually think that these products as incredible as they are in the iPhone right now, and as life-changing and groundbreaking things are, they've also changed our brain chemistry. It's changed my attention span, dramatically affected by this. And as much as I tried to build an high-end screen time on my phone, my phone turns off from six and nine until seven morning.
But then I find myself like, it's like a smoker trying to sneak a cigarette. I find myself temporarily undoing that on apps. And so the idea of a screen-listing just appeals to me on so many levels. I wonder how much were you motivated by having maybe some residual guilt over making something so good that it actually did to people?
When we left Apple, there was this moment where we were out to dinner, and there was a family sitting next to us at the dinner table, they had three kids, two parents, and all of them were on our phone. The entire family, and none of them were talking to each other. And I remember I remember I looked at me and he said, man, what we built was so incredible, but there had been some downsides that feel pretty heavy. And I think that, of course, that was something we were thinking about.
And for me, I started doing some research on happiness, and I was really interested in the question of, you know, has it made us happier. And what is happiness ultimately? And one of the things that I found in my research was that people reported higher levels of happiness when they were truly present in a moment. And I talked a lot about it, which is if being present truly in a moment does help you feel happier.
How does that play into what we're building? I think what we are building here is something that brings a lot of freedom and the ability to remain present. Yeah, I think the things that you were saying, Guy, I think a lot of people struggle with, you've got this incredibly powerful tool that makes you more powerful. Or in a know, or where or connected all of these tangents that come off of this tool that just really enabled certain characteristics.
That is the piece that becomes addicting. You want to be more of that. You want to know more. And so I think the trouble as a designer is that you really need to be able to be responsible for not only the tool, but how the tool is used and how the tool is sold and how the tool is actually safeguarded.
Even in Apple, I was the champion for doing not disturb. And it was something that I added in because I had coexistence experiences like when you described there definitely are some things that I wish didn't happen, things like social media as prevalence. Which exacerbates. I mean, that's really, it's not the iPhone, it's all the things on the iPhone.
Yeah, exactly. The iPhone is an amazing tool. It's just the things that you're allowing onto the tool and doing on the tool, other things that are tough. And so as Matthew mentioned, we certainly started to think about some of these things in a very different way in terms of how memories are formed.
Even the act of taking a photograph with a large preview takes you out of the multisensory biology that allows you to form a memory. And that's because your concentration is more on trying to get the image than it is on actually experiencing the thing you're experiencing. We absolutely rely upon our devices as much as the air we breathe and the electricity that runs through our cities and homes. We can't really live without it.
And what humane is really about is taking a more considered look at what is that coexistence of relationship with technology. What should it look like? So that we can be thinking about all the time. We're going to take another quick break, but when we come back, how about the in-run think about a business model that doesn't rely on a traditional app store.
Plus the humane, the in-action, stay with us and you're listening to how I go to this lab. Hey, welcome back to How I go to this lab. I'm Guy Raze. So I guess today our in-run charge rate and Bethany Bonjardo, founders of Humane, they describe the company's first device as a wearable personal assistant.
And they call it the humane, AI, and that's the end notice you have one with you. Is it possible to just show us one thing? Not as possible? It might be hard to hear it.
I'm wearing it on my iPad. Oh, I heard that as a little speaker. Can you ask it? Can you ask it to tell you something about me?
Sure. Let me make sure my device is unlocked. Don't get my pass go. What time is it?
201 PM. What's the letter like outside? I'm sure we're ready. Checking letter.
The card, whether it's inference is focused on the temperature of 54 degrees Fahrenheit. Who is Guy Raze? Who is Guy Raze? The search for grass.
Guy Raze is an American journalist and podcast are known for his popular podcasts such as how I built this into a real power. That's so cool. I mean, very narcissistic question from the past, but once I move her, you know, it's like having, right? Have you ever thought about that parallel?
Yeah. And the thing about it is that, you know, obviously you can ask it very tactical things, right? So what's the letter like outside? What's going on this weekend in the city?
You can also ask it, you know, to just remember it's for you. And it really is about being your second brain. That is to do that. Yes.
So for me personally, the way that I use it is I ask it. My, I ask it to remember my entire travel itinerary where I'm going to be when the hell I'm saying it's this, my room is this. So then if somebody asks me, like, hey, then can you do this thing on this day? I can say, am I going to be in San Francisco on this date?
Right. And it tells me, but it's also not just for tactical things, right? I can use it as a lie journal. I can have it record things and notes for me that I'm thinking about, make lists of places.
I want to go visit where things I need to talk to everyone about, which is like, what am I favorite things? So you treat it almost like your second brain. And what happens is that you create this incredible data set that's very personal and it uses it and it can use it. So then offer suggestions.
So now that I teach my AI, everything it should know about me and everything it should know about my life. When I'm in a new city and I say, hey, I have an hour, I'm in Tokyo, what should I do? It's using what it knows about me to offer suggestions, right? Or if I'm saying, hey, I'm in Tokyo, what I need to buy different around, which I get him on here.
And now it's using what it knows about him and I've told it to help me figure out what's by him. So this is the power of this very personal computer that we built. And where is it? I mean, Google has Gemini and obviously the strategy and there's other platforms and operating systems.
Does it use a specific one or will it have access to all of it proprietary one? Yeah. So we will be using whatever is best based on what is you're trying to do. And so our architecture allows for multiple models, things made by companies like OpenAI.
We have a good relationship with the team there. And smaller models are things that are proprietary to us. And these will change in evolve over time. And we are able to, these into our operating system, whenever we feel like there's a new type of capability.
And that's key to how we've built not only the device, but also the operating system that runs on anything. So when you, let's say talking about as a second brain on memory tool, right? You can imagine it's a journal using the journal, right? You say, hey, I just want to call my thoughts for now.
What does it then do with that information? Like it's stored somewhere and then the cloud. And then what if you want to access that? Like do you say, hey, can you like put my life story in a book?
Like what would you do that? Yeah. So for right now, what you can do on the device is you can, with your pen, as you can ask it. Right.
So when I had to remember all of my thoughts and all my notes and things I need to do, I need to be, I can just speak to it like I would speak to a person, right? Like where's Brin's birthday party again? Like, oh, it's at the park. You told me it's at the park.
Okay. That's a great. And then you also can access all of your data on a website. So you have your own, I think of it like your own Google homepage that you go to.
That's your personal page that has all of your data. It has every question you've ever asked it. It has every answer it's ever given to you. It has every photo and a video that you've ever taken.
All of the data we've collected. And you can go in and view it. You can also delete your data. So let's say there's something that you don't want it to be there anymore.
You can delete every individual query or you can delete it. I just don't know that you've created. And I think our vision has always been that we want to create a OS that is very personal. And eventually your building is really great.
It's at that you own. And it's yours. And eventually you can decide where your data goes. I don't make news in this particular place.
I'm sure I'm the first person who's had once that black mirror episode, where every members recorded and then you like, you can just chip out of the head. But I mean, I see incredible value in being able to store memories. I guess part of me is just worried about the security side of that. But we already do store a lot of our members like Google Cloud.
So that version that already exists. So it only gets like totally outrageous to be slightly concerned about the security state, right? Yeah. Yeah.
I think you should be concerned. I wish more people were concerned. And it's something that we care about a lot. We understand how this data has been used in the past.
We believe that everything that you create or collect and store using your AI pin belongs to you and only you. And is something that you should know about. We don't have a way to access your data. We don't use it in training or anything else.
It's literally yours. And anytime you use it to access a memory, it's actually doing so in your own protected space. It's a foundational thing for us to protect people's data and to make sure that it's not being used by anyone but you. We also, it was very intentional from the beginning that we didn't have a weekword.
We didn't want to build advice that was always listening. We're not recording at all. We're not recording from the cameras or the microphone. Unless you engage with the device.
And when you do engage with it, you heard the sound when I was using it before. When I engage with it, the LED turns on to tell you and everyone around you that the microphone is on. And that's something that we actually built into the hardware. That the LED will turn on when the microphone's on, when the cameras are on.
And that's something that it was really important that we wanted to be more transparent than the devices you have today. So your phone today, somebody could be sitting across from you, taking pictures of you recording audio of you and you would have no idea. It's not transparent at all. And in Ron was pretty clear from the beginning that we care about this stuff.
And it is important that privacy and transparency are at the forefront of it. And that's the big part of our ethos. Can you, right now, this pin can't replace a smartphone because you can't order an Uber phone. Or transfer money on your bank account, for example.
But do you imagine that it will be able to do all the things that we become unfortunate dependent on? I wanted to copy the phone and I couldn't see the menu. And I was like, what do you guys have? I was like, oh, just scan your phone.
And I was like, I got on my phone. So they were very tightly dictated by me to me. But I mean, it's almost impossible to get to the day with that smartphone. Absolutely.
I think people post-COVID, the QR code is ringing screen right now. And when you have a vision based computer like ours, you can play in that world. It works really well. But what we have here is again, a computer that really allows you to have those kinds of interactions without you really being the driver of all that.
You're just the person that takes the benefit from it. If you think about right share of services, you know, you can just say, hey, I need a car. And your AI understands it's been the same way you need to be. And you could say, I need to get there quickly versus I need to get there in the most cost efficient way.
And, you know, the device in the OS and the AI experience will figure that out for you. And so we do see there being a tremendous benefit for having these AI first interactions for you. These things that we do today because they can help you out. It just feels more like an extension of you.
Both of you guys are very intimately involved in this AI kind of revolution that's happening in the industry center around San Francisco. And there's very much been an open debate around where it's heading and what you expect. I understand that what you're working on and you're sort of the way you see your role in it is to create responsible AI technology. But just in general, where do you sort of stand on where this is headed?
I mean, it's already growing and scaling. It's just as a space that's hard for the people who have created technology even understand how quickly it's growing and how powerful it's becoming. And I wonder whether, like, I'm not smart enough to articulate why that's here as me, but I can tell you that part of it does here. And I wonder, you guys want smarter than me?
Does any of that scare you? Yeah, you know, this is an accelerated pace unlike anything we've ever seen before. You take compute and you couple into the internet and you add in the processing capability. I think what really needs to happen is, there needs to be a good balance of making sure that bad things don't happen.
And there needs to be an openness to allow for good things to happen. You need a way to make sure that these regulations keep people safe, but then don't start for innovation. And the best way to do that is to involve the people that are really intimate in understanding how to do that. And we have been involved in a few conversations about shaping regulations around this, which we really appreciate and we want to be able to be involved in a lot more.
But you really do need that right now. This is not only something that's important on a regional or national level. It's also important on a global level. I want to ask you a business relationship.
My assumption, I'm just going to add for example, for instance, is that a huge source of Apple revenue is the App Store. I mean, they have multiple revenue streams of the phones that are hardware, software, the App Store. I mean, it's an incredible company in how they can really harness different ways of making money. You have a closed device.
You will not have apps. So we will or we do integrate with third parties and we already have some that exist on our platform. There will be many, many more over time. And so the service is also part of the business.
Right. So you'll have the device and then the monthly fee, which right now is low. And then over time, part of the business model will be available and that could be another revenue stream. And we see it a little bit differently in that the traditional idea of what an App is is effectively going to disappear and kind of where he has.
And so for us, we work really closely with some third parties that run on our platform. There will be some that we don't need to have partnerships with where we'll be using things that they publicly available. And right now, we obviously still make money on hardware, which is incredible. And over time, we're just going to be constantly shipping new experiences.
And that's a beauty of having a lightweight client on the device. That's a really powerful cloud that can continue to evolve over time. And you wake up and your device does something new. Just like you want to test out, you wake up, your test has a new software update.
It has a new feature. It's the same model. And so what does success look like for you in the next sort of two or five years? I'm going to bring it back to something that Bethany said.
When you feel like you have a better relationship with technology, and you have people that are just generally happier, but then aren't forsaking a lot of the capabilities, that's when I think we'll feel really good about what we've done. To me, that's what success is, is just having that impact of redefining our relationship with technology to make it better. Yeah, and I hope that our work inspires other people. We've already seen that kind of, we started this momentum in the AI hardware space, which is really exciting.
And I think it will ultimately benefit all of us. And we are building something that we want to. We started building this because we wanted it in our life. And I think, of course, success for us means financial success, of course.
That has to be a factor. We're building a business. But I'll say that the thing for me personally, that really impacts me is when even people who have pins today, our entire company has some friends and family have them. We're living with them day to day, but as we get ready to ship, we have channels internally at our company.
You know, photos, videos, experiences that they have with their device and share their thoughts. And when I read ones that involve people talking about how they went away for the weekend with their family, and they were able to capture all these moments and go to an event with their child and capture the entire thing. But like, be able to look at them in the eyes of the time and save their present enrollment. Those are the things that got me pretty emotional honestly because I do care a lot about the impact what we build has on people's day to day lives.
Like that for me is a huge motivator. But then you're not in thank you so much. Thank you. Thanks, guys.
That's Beth, Steve, and John O. And in our on-chargeary founders of Humane. Thanks for listening to the show. This week, please make sure to click the follow button on your podcast app so you never miss an episode of the show.
Always it's free. This episode was produced by J.C. Howard Music composed by R.T. and Erlewie.
It was edited by John Isabella with Research Help and Kerry Thompson. Our audience here was Neil Rauch. Our production team at Howardville includes Alex Chung, Carl Estebes, Casey Herman, Chris Messini, Catherine Cypher, Melia O'Donnell, Neil Grant, and Sam Colson. I'm Guy Rauz, and you've been listening to How I Build This Lab.