Hi, Stair. I'm 41 years old and I'm calling with a Personally heart wrenching case of should I stay or should I go? In regard to a man. I've been seeing for almost two years He and I met on a casual dating app and went into it very casually.
I learned that he is married and that he and his wife Were are no longer sexual or romantic in that way, but they are living together share a bed They co-parent an eight-year-old boy just like I do with my accesses and with whom I do not share a bed And she is very open encouraging of all of this and never in one million years what I have seen myself making my way into this kind of a dynamic But this gentleman and I have very strong feelings for each other and he and I go on dates every week to two weeks and They're absolutely incredible from our chemistry as friends and humans not to mention that I'm having the best sex of my life like full stop and He is emotionally secure and available to me in a way that I've frankly never had in 41 years I also have been stuck in these endless questions all the time because There's a big part of me that does love being single like when I first got divorced I'll never forget that feeling of I can do what I want I can be who I want to be and yet I crave that idea of stability and marriage again And it's this constant push and pull and I don't know if I would want to be married to him and yet it does not prevent some real pain some real pain that I feel around Feeling like just jealous, you know of he and his wife or partner who was lovely. I Would just so so Appreciate and love the chance to talk through this video. So thank you so much for listening Hey, I'm a fusheil comedian writer and floating head you may or may not have seen on your FYP I'm starting a brand-new podcast wait. Don't swipe away.
It's called that sounds like a lot You know that feeling when you check your phone read a few headlines and think that sounds like a lot I can't do this well. I can I'm gonna get into it every Friday You can watch on YouTube or listen wherever you get your podcast I'm gonna start by breaking down whatever insanity is happening in the world And I'll sit down with a comedian or actor or writer or honestly anyone who responds to my deans This is not the place to get the news But it is a place to feel a little bit better about it that sounds like a lot coming May 1st part of the Vox media podcast network Burn your five pound weights I'm not a person I'm an athlete and fitness instructor and I am telling you unless you have been limited to lighter weights by a medical professional They're honestly inexcusable. You need to be lifting heavy and I'm talking especially to the women out there F*** toned arms. What can your body do this week on Project Swagger?
What heavy means and rules to bring into your routine? Listen now I think what's very strange to me about all of this that I mentioned is that I would never have imagined myself Getting sort of entangled in something like this I've always when I've been on the apps and seen these ethically non-monogamous people, you know like I always don't swipe on this people because it seems complicated and Something I don't want to get caught up in and he did not list himself that way, but he was very honest when we met and They're not sexual right so he's sexually monogamous with me and that has been how my brain has been able to sort of make this work Right meaning how did me how you put the puzzle together? so I feel like there's something special that we have together and I Realize that that that could very much be the case with or without him having sex with other people but it Protects some element of it for me where I feel like he is committed to me, you know, and Sometimes I think it's so silly because he's also married and he's sleeping in the same bed with his wife But they are not sexual so he has family monogamy with her and sexually monogamy with you. Yes.
Yes, and It's tied up a lot. It's tied up in like I think Jealous there's just a raw jealousy that I think a lot of people in these relationships with multiple parties happens to them But then there's also this but your jealousy is about The monogamy of his family that they come first that you cannot enter into that space that Tell me a little bit what the arrangement is so far and what is the jealousy because it can be about something very precise, right? So I very much relate to his family coming first So I also have an eight-year-old and divorced and it's funny because the last person I dated didn't have children And he totally did not understand like my kid comes above all else so that I very much relate to I get jealous Thinking of them sleeping in the same bed. He and his wife.
Yeah, and also They are general family life because I don't have it and it's not that I don't have it with him But it's that I don't have it, you know So yeah, so when I see the beauty of his family it reminds me of the family that I no longer have Sorry, no nothing to apologize for that part is very raw for me and This whole side that is there and gets tied up in what is Really a beautiful thing in many ways What is your arrangement with the father of your child? We are good friends actually we were friends for many years and then we got married had a child and very quickly had our first fight that Became the reason we got divorced which was You made that one fight stand out so special that I couldn't resist being curious It was oversleep training with our son and it was something very small, but I realized I had never sort of stood ground and Had been contorting myself honestly to prevent any at all conflict in our relationship, you know, there had never been conflict and I sort of just stood my ground and there was a complete unraveling and he wanted a divorce and it was so Crazy, but we both instantly flipped into We're putting our son first and Thankfully my ex-husband had the context of his parents having divorced when he was young and did a really good job of Putting him first. It's very fluid like our son has never known anything different and I'm very proud of that But it's also another one of these things where I do like spending Christmas with my son and his dad and Sometimes when I play out this idea Well, what if I were with somebody full-time? Monogamous again, that would be hard, right?
Or I mean some people might not like that Would it be fair to say when I am with the father of my child and my son and we are in family mode There is no jealousy When I'm alone Then I'm start to think about the family that my partner has and then I start to think that is what I miss because in fact You do have a family life. I I don't feel that because there is some Suppressed like emotional pain around my divorce that I just don't surface and Yeah, I feel like it's other people's intimacy is just hard for me because I'm not intimate with anybody. So I'm sorry Cheers just let them flow let them flow let them stream down. I'm not intimate with anybody Yeah, I have a very small like extended family where my dad was strange from my dad, which was complicated situation it was emotionally abusive to our family my sister and I growing up and Have a good relationship with my mom, but it has its limits Both daughters are estranged from him For her long Eight years right before my son was born right after I got married that was a pretty crazy year, but he He basically blew up our lives He and my mom had been married for four years and he came home one day and said I wanted a divorce and He emptied out their bank accounts and left her with nothing.
We found out he'd been doing all these horrible things leading a double life basically And in hindsight, I think he was really kind of a sociopath. I don't think he had empathy And I spent my whole life trying to get his approval. You know, it was very much the perfect type a child And my sister was the older Rebellious one who he treated worse, you know, but he played us off each other It was just a really tough childhood I mean not as tough as a lot of people's but unpacking it as an adult it was very Eyo-biting to me alert like I learned about attachment theory for the first time a couple years ago, and I was like no I thought I was overall that It's here if you're what you call him partner boyfriend lover lover we call each other lovers Okay, if you love her, who'd you say I am not intimate with anyone? How would he respond?
He would brought his hand on its heart and it's sad Because you're right I am intimate with him. He's the only person that I really am intimate with Beyond sexuality He's the first man that I've ever had difficult feelings around that has been able to sustain it where it hasn't blown up because I Had a meltdown or challenge something that was going on or made things difficult for example Well, this situation has been very hard for me like grappling with these feelings of jealousy With his wife and I feel like I will have these sort of outburst, you know, and I don't necessarily get angry But I I do unravel and I'm like I can't handle this and sometimes I do contort it into something like you don't even want me anyway and You know just blow up and I assume that it's gone and he's gone because that's how it's gone My relationships and I'm very Conscious of that with Domated my life and he just keeps coming back for more like a golden retriever He's just there, you know, and he's like that must be so hard and so it makes it like in many ways so wonderful, right? I feel like it's so good for me to be with somebody that Allows me to experience jealousy Yes, even envy because one is for what we had and have lost and the other one is for what we've never had or not never But what we don't have but also experience the insecurity that it's not what you have It's how it instantly connects to what I feel I don't have and so because I don't have one thing I Experience it as well than I better have nothing Because if I can turn it into I'll be the one to set this up to end then at least I feel a little bit more in control I don't feel in control over the relationship as it is But I can be in control over the dissolution of the relationship and he doesn't let you play with that Okay, and you have fixated on they share a bed today share a bed they share a bed and that becomes that image that you Interpret as they have intimacy they have something I don't have you can see how you put the pieces of your puzzle together Talk to me about what is their arrangement and who are you for them? You're telling me who he is for you?
I don't know much about her. I don't know if your children have ever met I don't know if this is a marriage also not just of a marriage coming together more accurately of two people or of two units What is the arrangement? What is your relational arrangement at this point? And is it a by default or is it actually by design?
so There was no crossing for quite a while, you know We met quite casually through this app and I don't think either of us was expecting the level of connection that we developed and he presented himself as as married and described the situation that is he and his wife are wonderful partners and very good friends they lost the sexual spark at some point and Decided to stay together and co-parent and raise their child in their home and both of them have a separate erotic life she didn't for some time it sounded like but now she does and I Had not met her for a long time and And eventually she said she wanted to meet me and so we had coffee together and to be able to just me and her and I was like if this is not progress against my anxious attachment style I don't know what I I had this whole idea of her in my mind You know I've done this whole the ways that she's different than me She's like the perfect homemaker and I'm not and you know All this stuff and instantly was just disarmed by power. She's also totally warm and genuine and cool and I Could see that everything was very honestly she was like this is so great like he's in such a great mood all the time He is crazy about you. We're so happy to have you in our lives I went to their holiday party like a mother to a guy which was hard but Also, what a other weird part of me is like what if I was just a part of this fabric I mean do I have this in need to be one of these crazy people that I shouldn't say crazy people like securely attached people that can flex in relationships And she was so happy to have me there, you know, so I don't you know, he doesn't talk about their relationship I think he's very You know protective of that and I appreciate that and I don't know what the future holds in store for them But it's like the jealousy the Raj and Lacey adding security it brings out is so present We have to take a brief break so stay with us and let's see where this goes Support for where should we begin comes from Shopify when starting a business? There's always the question at the back of your mind.
What if I fail the other side of that is of course What if you don't there's only one way to find out you can make it happen with the help of Shopify millions of businesses around the world rely on Shopify For e-commerce from businesses just getting started to household name brands It can help you with everything from payment processing to analytics to website design Choose from hundreds of templates to create a great looking website Their email and marketing tools can help you get your name out there and stay connected with customers And if you ever need help Shopify is 24 7 award-winning customer support has got you back You can turn those what ifs into a thriving business with Shopify today You can sign up for your $1 per month trial today at Shopify.com slash Esther You can go to Shopify.com slash Esther. That's Shopify dot com slash Esther Support for where should we begin comes from Babel the language learning app that's all about small steps big wins and progress you can see It's an immense privilege to get to travel the world But especially when you're an English speaker chances are that you'll encounter people who speak your language abroad But even so it pays when you make the effort to learn a few words or phrases in preparation for your journey to every country I go I have a list of the words of hello. Thank you. Please happy birthday How are you?
Where am I? How do I get to the basics for when I'm lost and I need to find my way But I remember very much when I went to Turkey and I was having my birthday during the trip and everybody was saying ikido Don't I'm not even sure I'm pronouncing it correctly, but it meant happy birthday Here's a special limited time deal for our listeners right now get up to 60% off your babble subscription at babble.com Forward slash Esther get up to 60% off at babble.com forward slash Esther spelled b-a-b-e-l dot com forward slash Esther rules and restrictions may apply I'm Mitch first two time in the Brazil champion championship MVP and forward for the USM national team before I went pro I graduated from Harvard with a degree in psychology which comes in handy more than you think any athlete pursuing greatness knows There's a certain mentality you have to have what people don't know is what that costs in my podcast confessions I'm really athlete I sit down with the best athletes in the world and explore the psychology mindset and unseen battles on the path to greatness So take a seat and learn from the confessions of an elite athlete on YouTube or wherever you get your podcast May I meet the part of you that speaks that insecurity. How does it relate to you? How does it tell its story?
How does it warn you? How does it turn? Opportunity in threat Tell me what it says and what it is trying supposedly to preempt for you Imagine it's sitting right next to you. So it's not inside of you.
It's actually on the chair next to you Jealousy, I don't know. Do you have a name for it sometimes? I don't have a name for it The jealousy is so hard to pinpoint. Okay, so You enter into me and I feel I'm dirt threat.
I am in like fighter flight All right hold on one moment because you're still talking to me turn around and pick something any object that you can place To represent jealousy just look on your shelves and then just bring it toward you Like physically breathe. Yeah All right, can you show me? Okay shows my lego lucky cat. Mm-hmm.
All right, and the reason you will represent my jealousy is because Anything any connection? No, just like this was drawn to it. Okay, we're gonna make it lucky. Okay, maybe it'll be memorable that way I thought so like if I need a mental talisman All right You don't have to look at me, but I want you to talk to actually it's less you talking to the jealousy first It's about listening how the jealousy speaks to you how it fills you what it does what it?
tries to preempt for you what threats it predicts what only know that part so well I'm thinking about it right now and If I'm talking to my jealousy right now, it's oh Your jealousy is talking to you the jealousy talks to me. Yeah, what does it say? It's very mean it's very mean it tells me that I am number two and that I'll never be so much number one and That I should get out while I'm ahead But it also tells me that that's like very powerful That's what I deserve and that is heartbreaking to me, you know Deserve as in you're not good enough to be it starts to attack and it wrote your sense of self-worth. Yes And that is what I have been primed for you know, like that was my dad's Uncanny ability to come in any moment.
I started to feel good about myself and Take me down which honestly comes up for me a stair like I think This negative self-talk this like when I'm being really mean to myself I can almost hear him and Then I think I don't want to let him win, you know, like this is not serving me in any way Who the hell do you think you are? That kind of great person reasons standing out to me right now this thing he said to me one time When I was a teenager he told me I was the last person anyone ever wanted to see walk into a room I suppose really could just walk around feeling like and I I'm such a otherwise intelligent person That I can conceptually understand so much, you know, I mean I probably would win an award for the number of hours of pemish children talks I've listened to But don't ask me to practice self-compassion. Okay, it's like I It's powerful. It's like feels it's in my body, you know It's so then you go like am I fighting something that I?
Am never gonna be or am I making it too hard for myself by trying to do this work? So, you know, I had a a wicked thought May I just please share it with you because everything is kind of Most together. Are you still holding it in your hand jealousy? Good Keep holding it.
You see in a model of plural love Primary or secondary doesn't necessarily carry the same meaning Primary worth more Secondary worth less It's not a rating system. It's an organizational structural idea With you that interestingly you were number one in fact your sister was number one on the attack line Your experience with number one hasn't been particularly good You wear his number one both of you and he was firing away You know estrangement is a drastic radical decision eight years So we can't go into the details of that, but it doesn't happen out of nothing So you have been number one your idea of this fairy tale that the number one is an elevated state Is actually not what has been your life experience There is a way of thinking about relationships that is organized around Exclusiveness and then you demarcate what makes this relationship by what it doesn't allow But what it doesn't allow in it excludes the other stuff and that's what defines it And so then you are the only one and then there's another way of thinking about relationships that involves Specialness not exclusiveness, but specialness and in that one you're never the only one necessarily But whatever you are especially in its own way So you go to this party and these people receive you you may not like the arrangement You may say and unlike complicated setups or multiple setups. That's design And then you say that's not for me, but then it doesn't come from a place of self-loading Of being in this relationship is proof That I will not be claimed that nobody will choose me as their first as their one and only and that it is because I'm the last person people want to see walk into the room. So there's a kind of a mixing of two stories here One that was indeed exclusive but vicious and one that is special but somehow Activates this notion that if I'm not the only one if I'm not the primary one It's not because we said we have something else that ties us together It's because you don't want to do that with me.
Yes. Is that a fair description? It really is and it's a story that is not reflected really in the situation, you know, like I I mentioned this in my message that I don't even know if we would be right together as being married or That's not what I even fantasize about really it's weird. I mean he would be a wonderful partner and husband absolutely, but It's more just this ambiguous.
Here's a reason to feel bad But then I there's so many great things about it like that I've mentioned to you from a Emotional standpoint of things I've been able to work through and then also just the joy of developing Some intimacy with somebody that is also not laden with all of the rest of life and It's funny because I'm trying to talk about this to some married friends. They'll be like, well that is You gotta get out of that like run don't walk like you must be miserable half the time and like this is the recipe for disaster And then I'm like well How is marriage going because marriage is really hard to you know? You gotta get out of what what is being reinforced that indeed you're a side gig Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think that's how they frame it and From the outside I can kind of see that but that's not how he makes me feel or frankly how she makes me feel his wife I feel like they want to bring me into their fold, you know, and he makes me feel very special He's the first man I've ever been with that is very comfortable just like openly complimenting me in this way that is so Disarming to me, you know, we'll just be kissing or something and it'll sit back and be like you are so beautiful and I don't know what to do with it and I realized I wasn't getting that before from other people and Well what you do with that is first and foremost you savor it.
Yeah, then you decide how important is this It's an important experience for me to have in a relationship. It doesn't define a decision Yes, okay My question to you is do you feel like you need to make a decision or do you feel that other people are urging you to make a decision? Because you started out by saying, you know, should I still should I go and I'm listening to you telling me I'm caught between two stories Two ways to interpret my reality. That's it in one version.
I Experienced myself as basically I'm experimenting with a very different kind of relational arrangement. It is an Etically non-monogamous polyamorous arrangement. It's new. It does involve jealousy by the way.
That's okay It is also part of the erotic charge that There is a sense of where am I where do I fit in etc So the goal is not to avoid any jealousy the goal is to learn to live with it The other narrative is I've been exclusive I've actually been many times the number one and my main experiences around that I've been not particularly kind which doesn't mean that therefore an exclusive relationship is by itself compromised, but there are two narratives here And my question to you is do you feel an urgency to make a decision or do you feel that the people around you are urging you to make a decision or That there is a sense that you being naive. You've been credulous. You're gonna get hurt What's the context who you know, what's the Greek chorus here? Yeah?
It's almost like it's these like, you know Every once in a while. I will have a pretty significant meltdown around this and Think I can't do this anymore like this. These feelings are too hard And what's really funny is that this is all circle of people I've opened up to about this who were in monogamous relationships When I first went down this path, we're like get out and now Multiple couples have opened up their marriages It's suddenly they're like go can it you live in the dream? But they don't need a nightmare and the nightmare is that by putting myself in a situation where I experience The need to prove myself the need to make myself be more wanted the feeling that I am competing with another reality That is better than mine throws me right back into my relationship with my dad in which I hear all these etched inside my body sentences of Every time I try to what did you say?
I win his love or be approved by him It only made me feel worse about myself Because the whole thing was predicated on it not being possible. He needed me to be one down. Yes So I have a relationship now that evokes that for me. Yeah, how are they all do?
They all do so it doesn't even matter which Boundary system you're living in or which identity system you're living in this at some point the question of am I worthy? Will I be replaced? Would you notice if I need you? Would you be there if I need you?
Can you take it if I am messy, you know, I Use this example like my ex boyfriend I dated for three years and I had he never was with me when I didn't have shaved legs I told somebody that recently and they were like what I'm like that is something I learned from my mother and the way that my dad commented on our appearance, you know my whole life to be to keep it together, you know, so what is messy mean afraid? afraid like Angry like showing emotions that they don't want to hear that men don't want to hear and you get angry when you're afraid The more you're afraid they would leave the more you kick them out And you think that when I'm afraid I'm gonna scare them they're gonna think I'm impossible to be with Yes, I'm thinking I'll be as I need you to yeah that I you know get if I get angry or You know, I felt like this gentleman that I've been seeing I introduced him to a friend of mine And I thought that they were being sort of flirtatious with each other and I am super tuned into that and it actually makes me mental and I Melt it down about it, you know, and I thought this is the end because I don't get angry at men like I don't It's very difficult for me to conjure that and so when I knelt it down about that I thought that's the end of that That's the end of that meaning he's not gonna want to be with somebody who flares up like this who loses her shit Yes, who is so insecure who sees the slightest thing and starts to turn it into a whole saga Yeah, and that night I was so elevated like how bad does it get? The jealousy thing when I experience that if I see flirtatious a green-eyed monster It is a monster in real life if I see it if I see flirtation it is a monster and It's pricey. It feels like betrayal.
It's threat, you know And he was like that was absolutely not my intent, but I'm so sorry and what does it say to you at that moment? When it sees the flirtation it is as you should be angry at this guy because he is not prioritizing you and he will you know fall at the first sign of female attention that he gets, you know, and then And then what are you? You know, you're just like any other woman in the room to him Also like with it. It's like also fighting me like why are you doing this?
Like you're thinking so small like some women would find it hot that their man could flirt like this and that other women were attracted to him And they would have fun with it. So Not only are you with just like all these other women in the room like you're worse because you can't roll with this and give him a fucking break Because he's a nice person and it's not intentional But it feels like he's stabbing me in the heart like it is so raw. It's so powerful We are in the midst of our session. There's still so much to talk about we need to take a brief break.
So stay with us I'm Maria Sherpa and I'm hosting a new podcast called pretty tough every week I'm sitting down with trailblazing women at the top of their game to discuss ambition work ethic and the ups and downs that come in the path to achieving greatness We'll dive into their stories and get valuable insights from top executives actors entrepreneurs and other individuals who have inspired me so much in my own journey Follow pretty tough wherever you get your podcasts Honest to God like fucking skinny I want to be jacked without context tone and sculpt are rooted in diet culture We're inheriting a lot of nonsense that makes specifically women feel like they have to shrink in order to expand and I'm just saying no Let's just like lift heavy and like take up space. That's the expansion I'm up in our zone and this week on Patrick's wagger I break down the strategies that helps me build confidence and feel at home in my body Especially after two babies listen now at Project swagger wherever you get your podcast Is the US China rivalry ultimately a race to build the future? The United States and China are the two countries that are really inventing the future the future is being financed by Wall Street Invented in Silicon Valley as well as Jane Jane I'm Jake Sullivan and I'm John Fineer We're the host of the long game a weekly national security podcast this week author Dan Wong joins us to discuss America's lawyerly society China's engineering state and wide derangement might be a prerequisite for superpower status The episodes out now search for and follow the long game wherever you get your podcasts And is there a connection between the rawness of Feeling that bereft and enraged and how much you try to shave your legs at home How much you used? Femininity to call attention how much you worked on appearance and appearance and appearance as in pleasing that yes and Emulating mom or doing the opposite I had my moments It was weird because I also was like a huge feminist when I was younger Thanks to my sister and had all these I was very Entrepreneurial and ambitious which was not like my mom was more like my dad who was an entrepreneur but the need for approval and how I reacted to men in authority position to me was Like the constant and I was very in tune with all the little how to please how to seduce yes Yes, and so When you see the flirting on the other side you are competing with her yes, I'm competing with her and Her being the other woman.
Yeah, yeah, and at home. Did you look down to your mom as in? She has no strength no power knows seductive cache I can do better. I belong to the group of the people who are on top.
I identify with the men I'm the entrepreneur too. I can best them at their own game That's an interesting thing I It was very complicated because we felt so bad for my mom Because he prayed on her too But we didn't want to be like her no and he was always in my ear whispering that I was his favorite like was telling me that and so The things he put down and she was a stay-at-home mom So she was not gonna go out and learn languages and get a full ride to college and you know do all you did mm-hmm You know that's still was not enough Nothing really that is it's not meant to ever reach the criteria But you feel bad for mom you notice the weakness of mom her despondency But you certainly also know I don't want to be like mom. I don't identify with mom So I identify with him and so I internalized his voices inside of me the good and the bad And you know you've done enough in in our work to know that this is this is a clusterfuck Right and a part of you then says I'm gonna best him at his game. I'm gonna become the best Seductress that's where the number one comes in I'm gonna be better than all those other women because to be a number one You need to compete against somebody you don't compete against the man the woman is the pivot of this type of triangular dynamic And they need to be women that are more powerful so that they keep pushing you to do more more more And they need to be women who are weaker.
This is the language of this kind of dynamic It's actually very un-neunced for that matter So many other aspects to each person, but everybody becomes just either top or bottom Yes, do you have a think I could stay with my lover and maybe at some point also Mary I do in the creativity of multiple different kinds of relationship constellations, you know It's not like this needs to end for something else to start I don't know that that's what you want, but I want you to switch if you can From the default position to the design position From the victimhood from the I'm not chosen from the I'm not worthy to the What actually is the life that I would like to live responsibly creatively and responsibly? I really liked what you were saying about the story like that. There's a couple of stories happening here and the story of embracing this path the thing that I like about it is that it reminds me a lot of my younger self and I have been a very adventurous ambitious person. Are you still worried?
It's very weird, okay, because I can be very brave but emotionally like these interpersonal relationships I feel like I've been very held back by These old demons, you know the way I'm imagining and the very little that you've told me you see when you have a Father in your case. It's the father, okay, who prays? Philanders lies and bezels etc, etc, and You know, it's a bad behavior But the status of this person still feels on some wicked way better than to be the victim of all of this As the daughter you're in a bind you care for mom, but you don't want to identify with mom mom being woman Mom being feminine, but it's the woman. It's not just the mother.
It's the woman You don't want to be that kind of woman and so being number one becomes this kind of default position that says I'm not the reject the second choice That's the way the mind of that little girl often develops this narrative is the only way to not be that weakling Rejected humiliated made fun of cheetah done is to be like him in terms of his power Maybe not in terms of his social activity, but so in terms of his father. He's the number one he makes he makes a decision So it is it's an impossible bind I don't want to be like him because he's not a very attractive person and I don't want to be like her Yes I want to be with the power that he has in order not to have to be like her and what is the tool I can use to have his power It's the seductive tool What do you take with you from our conversation? I? Hope that I would get some different looks at this from The standpoint of us the stories like the story that is I'm telling myself It's being told to me that I jealousy is telling me and I very much feel like I have gotten that and That puts me in this position of feeling like I can talk back to it I've been conversation with a narrative about what's happening here Where would you like to put this?
Delicine the piece that represents it. Where should it be put in your house? Bearing it in the backyard is probably not the right answer it either needs to get buried in the backyard or Put in the middle of the mantle. Okay Would you would you is it there's a sense which one feels more conducive the mantle?
Yeah, all right go get up and go put it there and then we say goodbye. Okay, we're back. Yep. All right So it would be there in the middle of the mantle ready for any conversation so with our conversation Which is now wrapped around this what you call it my lucky cat you lucky cat and Turn to it when you need to talk or when you need to listen differently, but have it be outside of you It's pretty powerful in the living room.
It was always there. Mm-hmm, but now it has a different symbolism If you want you can have a little ritual with it on a daily basis or a weekly basis and you come and you know You can reflect with it, but you want to sort out the stories. They're bleeding into each other And they're making your life too confused Thank you so much for this is such a such a joy. Thank you, right and bye-bye This was an Esther calling a one-time intervention phone call reported remotely from two points somewhere in the world If you have a question you'd like to explore with Esther could be answered in a 40 or 50 minute phone call Send a voice message and Esther might just call you send your question to producer at Esther Parelle.com Where should we begin with Esther Parelle is produced by Magnificent Noise We're part of the Vox Media podcast network in partnership with New York magazine and the cut Our production staff includes Eric Newsom, Destry Sibley, Sabrina Farti, Kristen Muller and Julian Hap Original music and additional production by Paul Schneider and the executive producers of Where Should We Begin are Esther Parelle and Jesse Baker We'd also like to thank Courtney Hamilton, Mary Alice Miller and Jack Saul